Talk:Melee counter

FWIW, I really like how this page is shaping up. Listing all the different types of melee hate, then noting whether they are popular/unpopular and why they are so. This is exactly how most pvp articles we (will) have should feel, not only listing what can be done, but even why something works and why something else doesn't. Nice one, Drekmonger! :) --Dirigible 04:10, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * The "hate" part of the name has to go. Call it "counters" or something similar, less drastic. --Tetris L 04:28, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * It is referred to as "melee hate" and "caster hate" in the PvP community. The idea is:  a guy overhears "melee hate" on vent.  He doesn't want to sound stupid for asking, so he looks it up on the wiki.  Tada. --Drekmonger 04:48, 9 February 2007 (PST)


 * However, re-reading the page I do use the phrase "melee hate" too often. Switching many of the isntances to "melee counters" would make the page read better. --Drekmonger 04:53, 9 February 2007 (PST)


 * I want "hate" gone from the article name especially. It's too strong, too drastic. We need something more moderate. If the term is really well established in the PvP community (how would I know, I'm 100% PvE), then create a redirect for it. --Tetris L 05:05, 9 February 2007 (PST)


 * They all look like anti melee techniques, maybe something along those lines? -- Scourge  05:08, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * Melee countering? -- Scourge  05:09, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * Well, "too strong and too drastic" is exactly what melee hate is about. After having a stupid blinding surge ele camp you and just spam it on you every single time it recharges you'd feel exactly like that, hated. :P My suggestion would be to leave it as Melee Hate. "Melee counter" is something you'd only read on a wiki, "melee hate" is what everyone that'll actually be interested in this will know it as. --Dirigible 05:12, 9 February 2007 (PST)


 * isn't it possible to name the page "melee counters" and to create another page "melee hate" that redirects to this page? so if anyone hears "melee hate" ingame, he would see this site, and it doesn't sound too drastic... --l33torizor 9 February 2007 (what is PST?)
 * Yes, that's possible. And that's exactly what I was suggesting. --Tetris L 05:25, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * I'll live with the change. Melee counter does look better, though I feel it's important to maintain the redirect.  Small problem: the term melee hate still appears on the PvP tactics category.  Will this refresh naturally, or ... what?--Drekmonger 05:32, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * Both category pages show "Melee counters" for me. Prolly just some caching issue on your browser's side. It should change to the right term by itself soon. --Dirigible 05:38, 9 February 2007 (PST)
 * Add "&action=purge" at the end of your link to see the change and/or empty your browser cache. ~ D.L. 05:39, 9 February 2007 (PST)

Trains
Should Trains be added seperate or here? incase you don't know what it is, its when 2 or more melee classes stay on a target, the name comes from it looking like a train I suppose (or the giant one gaile did for holloween 2005). anyway what you think? Arcad1a 14:30, 14 February 2007 (PST)


 * Since this is counters, probably not here.


 * It couldn't hurt to make it separate, and then combine it with a larger article later if one presents itself. (as with what happened to stance cancels, for example)--Drekmonger 16:06, 14 February 2007 (PST)


 * Just for your information, the term "train" is not original to GuildWars, nor does it derive from melee characters actually looking like a train. Just check your game. They really don't. The term "train" originates from other online games, especially EQ, where it was pretty easy to accidentially aggro large amounts of mobs with a single character. Of course, those characters tried to outrun their pursuers on the expense of bystanders who would become the new targets once the original character's aggro was broken. Now, 50 orcs in a line, they do look like a train. Also, the warning call "Train!" did not only notify other players in the zone of that phenomenon. It told them the same that it would in real life: Get off the tracks. ~ dragon legacy  03:10, 21 February 2007 (PST)


 * I'll take your word for that, but it also doesn't hurt that one definition of train is actually: "to bring to bear on some object; point, aim, or direct, as a firearm, camera, telescope, or eye", synonymous to phrases like "zero-in", "focus on", "target", etc. When someone says "train this target ", they're asking everyone to focus on taking it down; it's not a call to run around following it like a gaile conga line. [[Image:User Greedy Gus sig.jpg]] Gus 06:47, 21 February 2007 (PST)

This section strikes me as out of place. It's basically a laundry list of all the melee counter skills in the game, rather than actually adding anything interesting to an informative PvP Tactics article about melee counters. And TBH there are a whole lot of skills that are a bit of a stretch. For example, just because Temple Strike causes blind, doesn't make it good warrior-hate or necessarily worth mentioning.

Here is a related project from wikipedia:

I'm not sure what the best change would be, would creating a category page of standard melee-counter skills suffice? Then we can link to it here, and use this space more for a guide on the tactics behind the skills. Thoughts? Gus 20:08, 20 February 2007 (PST)

To explain better: In my opinion, if we have this in the article:
 * "The Blind condition causes enemies to miss 90% of attacks. While it is cheap to remove, blindness is the most effective attack counter in the game. Blindness will not prevent characters from successfully using using melee ranged touch attacks or spells, such as Vampire Touch. "

then we don't really have to go profession by profession listing every single skill that inflicts blind as warrior-hate--it's already been covered, and people can read skill descriptions. Gus 20:16, 20 February 2007 (PST)

Melee 'Hate' (It is what it IS!)
Why shun away from it's true meaning? It's not profanity, doesn't directly insult/offend anyone, etc.. I mean, if the Wiki Admin/Officers will to censure it, it's there prerogative. The only thing wrong with that is that they take away the essence and meaning of the word melee 'hate' (as opposed to 'counter'). It's simply an expression of extreme resistance to melee in general. Most players hate melee simply because they're insanely strong. So what do they do? They fill their skillbar with just about 50% or > anti-melee hexes, enchantments, stances, heals, etc. It's insane how much anti-melee is out & about; to deviate from the true wordage 'melee hate' would take away the more accurate expression based upon the player's experiences in the current meta. --Ulterion 06:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Aegis
I believe the effects of the spell Aegis has changed since the article was written, thus making the example of kiting for a monk by using Aegis inviable. This should be changed.--198.140.202.1 22:14, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Conviction
Add conviction to the Dervish list? 50% block chance when enchanted and +24 armor unconditionally

Wars need an anti-hex strength based skill
They very much need one, I'm hoping they will have one in GW2. Hexes decimate warriors, and all the mesmers and necromancer players out there know it. R U Who U Want To B 00:38, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah. All my friends say there's this profession that removes hexes from others and keeps them alive, but I can't prove that mesmers are noobs if I'm not fighting one by myself. They keep stripping Mending, so I die every time I use Frenzy. Also, I'm just messing around. It's about game balance and teamwork: if you don't have a good monk, you will get destroyed by hexes; if they don't destroy you with hexes because your monk is good, you will easily destroy them. If warriors could defend themselves against hexes, then hexers would be defenseless against warriors, who are much more powerful than hexers. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 04:05, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

"Don't Believe Their Lies!" :D -- Ickoization 23:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

... to escape from melee ranged opponents.
What is melee ranged combat, exactly? Did somebody confuse melee with martial again? 62.197.173.242 08:15, 29 April 2011 (UTC)