Talk:Treasure Hunter

Hard mode
"In hard mode, if a lockpick is used to open a regular chest (i.e. not a Locked Chest) that is not considered "high-end", one point is also gained." - Where the heck are there "regular" (non-Locked) chests in Hard Mode? ~ Kailianna Firesoul 20:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe that's referring to Treasure Chest which doesn't need a lockpick. Otherwise, why would I need a lockpick to open a "non-Locked" chest? - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 20:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * By "Locked," it sounded like whomever posted that meant the chest type called "Locked Chest" which is the only chest type that's supposed to be in Hard Mode, as far as I know. The "non-Locked chests" that I was referring to would be the "Krytan Chest," "Luxon Chest," "Ancient Elonian Chest," etc. The comment in the article that I quoted seemed to me to imply that such chests existed in Hard Mode. Either the comment is extremely misleading, completely incorrect, or I'm missing something. ~ Kailianna Firesoul 23:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The comment was misleading.
There are only "Locked Chests" in hard mode. The comment meant to state that if you hunt treasure in hard mode in an area that (in normal mode) has chests that would not add to this title, you will gain one point for using a lockpick to open that chest in hard mode. Or consider it this way: All locked chests in hard mode add to this title.
 * Or just "all locked chests add to this title" as there are locked chests in Normal Mode (EOTN, etc).69.112.29.153 06:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Dreadnought's Drift
I added this one, running it as a monk. The times 2-4 minutes are mainly for recharge of spell breaker, you could probably run it in 1-2 minutes useing dervish Vow of Silence. ImperialPriest 01:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

changed base chance ?
please can someone confirm this, i think the base chance for retaining a lockpick is 40% at normal mode, i dont know since when but i have only 63% at a 600g chest in NM with elite tressurehunter(5) and properous(4). i remember a time where i had 73% but i didnt noticed the change. Mystic Gohan ' talk '' 12:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell there has been no change. I retain 56% with r4 treasure hunter and r2 lucky (+16%), making a base of 40%.  Although its off from the lockpick page which says a 600 chests base retention is 30%. ImperialPriest 14:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

So what's the cheapest way to do this title? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:76.123.119.133 (talk).
 * Open only the 600 chests. And wish for luck in seeing a lot of keys drop for your characters. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 00:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Also in pre?
in presearing i saw a char with the the rank 1...

how is that possible

LazloW 19:47, 12 Febuary 2008 (GMT+1)


 * He probably collected Golden Eggs during Easter 2007. Arduinna  [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 21:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Aye golden eggs would have been the only way. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 13:09, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, i gained few points by opening some Hidden Stash...--[[Image:User_RAd1cAl_EdwArd_Guildwiki-icon-small.png|20px|]]RAd1cAl_EdwArd 00:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

no, don't believe him, you don't get points for hidden stash. I have a few perma-pre's, and they never got points from those hidden stash. 84.195.131.227 07:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "He probably collected Golden Eggs during the Easter 2007"


 * It's a  S he ^^ C4K3 [[Image:User_C4K3_Signature.jpg]] Talk 22:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Hidden Treasure
Do opening Hidden Treasure chest count for the Treasure Hunter title track?--RAd1cAl_EdwArd 00:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Only those with keys that are 600 or more. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 01:36, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Is salvage bonus & retain bonus Passive or Active?
Does the salvage bonus & retain lock-pick bonus active when the Treasure Hunter title is displayed or will these bonuses be always passive regardless of displayed title? --Czar 15:08, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe it's passive, but I'm not 100% sure.  Calor  [[Image:User_Calor_Sig.png|19px|Talk]] 15:10, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is 100% passive, you do not need the title active, it would be a bit of a pain if you did as it is dependent on two titles, and displaying two at once is impossible :) -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 15:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes it is passive, I've not noticed any difference having the tile selected or not for either. -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 15:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Re: "it would be a bit of a pain if you did as it is dependent on two titles"  What other title?  Only Treasure Hunter gives you a passive bonus(es), eh?  Off to hunt more treasures, cya.   --Czar 12:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Lem was referring to Treasure Hunter and Lucky, since you mentioned both salvage bonus and lock pick retention in your original question. The treasure hunter title affects both of these and the lucky title affects the retention bonus. -- Kakarot  [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 13:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And the wisdom title effect salvage chance too. So both things mentioned can involve two titles. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 17:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

retain chance
Is it right that there are chests with higher retain chance then other locations? while de retain chance is the same by both chests?  Death Sligher  16:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In normal mode, retain chance will vary with the area, so earlier areas give you higher retain chance. It varies with the cost of keys for those chests. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No I mean same % but other area. bv keys of 600gold but in two area's.  Death Sligher [[Image:User_Death_Sligher_Dragon_Eye.png|talk: Death Sligher]] 15:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If keys are the same worth, then it should not matter. If you noticed a difference, it might just be chance. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 15:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Jade Sea and Echovald
Any good places to farm chests there? Any good places to combo with other titles (i.e. Kurzick / Luxon)? Thx. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Alaris (talk).
 * Yeah FFF in Melandru's Hope usually has 1 to 2 chests on the way (and more if you go out of the way). Drops are mostly terrible though, mainly purple Amber wands and bows, but the occasional Gothic stuff --Lytel 04:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC).

Stacking?
dose the % stack with other titles like wisdom?75.165.110.13 23:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, they stack. I'll add the notes in. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 06:30, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

A few tips...

 * If your wearing a "high-ranked" Wisdom/Treasure Hunter title chest drops seem to be worse.(somewhere about R3+)
 * Having a Large Amount of Keys/Lockpicks in your inventory will not effect quality of drops.
 * Opening chests in an area that has alot of other people opening chests seem to lessen quality of drops(dont even have to be in same map with you, just area)
 * If you dont open any chest for a long period of time it seems to produce better quality items for the first few opens.(ex. i took a 2 month break of no log in, same day as i logged in the frst 3 or 4 chests was great drops. ~ i tested this again by not logging in for about a week and again, the first 1 or 2 drops was good quality)
 * Useing /rank or /zrank on a chest has no effect at all and is a waste of time.
 * The second person to open seems to get a higher quality drop.(this was noted before and after the chest drop nerf which added purple+gold to same chest)
 * The quality of drops seems to decrease as more and more party members open the same chest.
 * Quality seems better when you are the only person on radar.
 * Quality seems better when the enemys around the chest are still alive or nearby.

these are just a few things that might help some people, i recently maxed treasure hunter after about 3 years of chest running in various spots and mentaly recording data, these are a few thing is have seen in both CR groups and solo running. Just sharing my secrets o.~ "Warrior Power!" The Only Warrior 10:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I run on my Necro, my I say Necro PowerXD, still 4400 to go:S. 145.53.242.142 18:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Costs
I'm confused... under the Cost section it first says 15k to complete the title then the last sentence says 5k? Also how do I access to discount merchants or do I have to find a kind-hearted player from an alliance which owns a town and have them buy keys for me? –   Barinthus  15:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The 15k plat cost is the worse-case scenario, which will never happen. The 5k plat cost is a more accurate estimate of what players should expect, when using lockpicks on 600g chests. Opening 600g chests with 600g keys would cost 6k plat, and would lose synergy with the lucky title track. As for buying lockpicks, people who are in an alliance who owns a town can buy lockpicks at 1.2k, and resell them at 1.25k each. They thus make 50g per lockpick at almost no effort, and will usually sell in bulk (i.e. 80 lockpicks at 100k). -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 16:00, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Erm, 15,000k not 15k. 5000k, not 5k. =) BIG differences I thought I should point out. --81.159.87.49 21:11, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 15k plat = 15000k gold. But thanks for pointing out the possible misinterpretation. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it might be more beneficial to assume that if someone does not trust lockpick retention and thinks that they would be better off using standard 600g keys, the cost will be 6k plat. This makes using lps more cost effective as it should cost less than 5k plat not even accounting for lucky ranks. Could we phrase this differently so that we say the best case scenario using high-end keys but not lockpicks is 6k plat whereas not taking into account all the benefits you should still be able to max this title using lockpicks for under 5k plat? Mohnzh   say   what?  14:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll add that in now. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Lockpick Costs
The calculations for lockpicks are inacurate. They don't take into account the fact that after you retain a lockpick there is a chance to retain the lockpick a second, third, etc. time. For example if I have 100 lockpicks and 50% RR than of the 50 lockpicks that are retained I will retain another 25, than 12 and so on. Taking the limmes of the series that's 200 lockpicks an not 150.
 * Actually, it does. I derived the formula for it, unless you can point out a mistake. With a lockpick, you have RR chance that it might not break on any single open, thus on average you can open 1/(1-RR) chests. If RR is 0, then you open 1 chest only. If RR is 1 (100%), then you open infinite number of chests. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 21:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Alaris is right. The multiple retentions are exactly balanced by multiple failures. In the eg given in the unsigned comment, the logic shows that with 50% RR you can open 200 *chests* with 100 *lockpicks*, which follows Alaris' formula.  The unsigned commentator mixed up chests and lockpicks.  In other news, I've run the numbers including average points at which lucky rank breaks will be reached (thus changing the probabilities of retention) and added the results to the article.  I can write it out in full here if anyone doubts my figures.Cassie 15:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

need help with "Poisoned Outcrops" running pls
Hi there,

just got r4 in Treasure, but that was mainly due to "Witman's Folly" and some HM playing. I was wandering,anyone can post a picture or give a guide about which way to go in Poisoned Outcrops? It'd help me a lot, cause atm it takes me much too much time per run...

I can share with my map of Witman's Folly, if someone needs it...

take care.
 * I think all maps would be great to post, those who have them. I would appreciate both Witman's folly and Poisoned outcrops. Thanks. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Accountbased?
Hi all, wouldn't it be an idea to make this title (and also the wisdom title) accountbased? Then you can identify items and open chests with every character, without losing points to the title track. It makes it a lot easier for people who has several characters they like to play with. 145.94.74.23 12:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Suggestions should go on the suggestion pages. Just click on the ArenaNet interaction link in the navigation box on the left. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 12:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for your reaction. 145.94.74.23 13:12, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, Linsey said she was considering that change (along with wisdom). She's an employee in charge of GW1 at the moment, so it might or might not happen. Cross your fingers. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It has been confirmed it should become added on the 6th. Dark Templar 18:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe a change could be made to the part about presearing: something along the lines of. This is why this title could be achieved in pre-searing prior to the nov 13th update, despite the absence of high-end chests. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.159.211.116 (talk &bull; contribs) at 09:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC).
 * Missing some words in your sentences? -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 08:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Or whole sentences.. [[Image:User_Teo_Sig_Icon.JPG|PLZ CLICK HERE]] ^ Teo ^ 12:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have had the Treasure Hunter title in pre-Searing for 3 years, and it seemed even more rare than the Defender title (not so rare these days) and the lush (drunkard) title. Now that it is account based - all that work and waiting a year was for nothing as it seems anyone and everyone is a treasure hunter in pre now. I quess I'll just sit on the edge of a cliff and drink my way to oblivion with all ale I worked so hard for, that everyone else seems to get almost for free now. Looks like I'll get my next 9,000 points in about a month or so.....Lefick [[Image:User Lefick Talk Icon.png|15px]] 07:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Costs -- 2nd discussion:
I noticed in the table, that 10,000 high end chests are necessary to get the max title, but I also noticed in the middle of the "Costs" section that there's only 5,000 chests required, i.e. 100, 150, 300...5000. Which amount is the correct answer? And if one of them was at one point correct what exact update moved the req. up or down? The answer to the second question, imo, should go in the "notes" section. Thx. -- UglyLooking 21:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * They are both correct, let me explain. You need 10000 chests total. However, the 2nd breaks it down by title tiers... -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 23:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Another thing, the unlucky title gain, which isn't correct anymore after the update of november 13th. According my calculations, you will gain around 390.000 290.000 unlucky points, if you open 10.000 chests, using lockpicks. This is in NM, and has taken the lucky rank and treasure hunter rank in account (meaning less lockpicks lost) --Lady Rhonwyn 12:16, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I forgot to take the basic retain in account. Didn't know that counted as well... That changes the amount considerable.  I split my calculations up by chests opened.  So, I didn't change the retain chance when the lucky title reached a new level.  By doing so, I got a total of 1.500.000 lucky points and a whooping 580.000 unlucky points.  Which means you'll probably max unlucky before you max treasure hunter.  Naturally, this calculation only works for a completely fresh account.  If I take my own account (which has r3 TH, r4 lucky and unlucky), I'll gain a total of 522.000 unlucky points and 1.300.000 lucky points with the remaining chests.  Again, this is NM.
 * In HM I would gain a total of 512.000 unlucky points and 741.00 lucky points. You will lose more lockpicks but each lockpick will give less unlucky points.  But both methods will give you max unlucky.  --Lady Rhonwyn 13:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Dropped Items
Anyone have information on the average amount of gold made by selling ID'ed items from chests (regardless of color) back to the merchant assuming that we'd salvage runes and sell them to the rune trader? Any rough estimate would be appreciated to compare how it offsets the investment in lockpicks. Tahl 01:51, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I salvage the runes I know are worth a good amount, and sell the rest to the mercs. I have 65% retention rate now. I estimate that on average, those sales pay for about 78% of the costs or lockpicks bought at 1250g each. Of course, at lower retention rates, you'll have to spend quite a bit more to keep up. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 02:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I did some calculations. Based on the numbers above, I get an average of 341g per open. That's 341g = 78% * 1250g * (1-0.65), if you want to substitute in your values. Or, you can calculate the % of the cost retained as % = (341/1250)/(1-RR). -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 05:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Any chars running chest still make titles synergy ?
If we use alternative chars to run chest, are all other title that synergies with this title, account-wise ?
 * Well, the only titles I can think of that synergies with Treasure hunter are, Lucky, Unlucky & Wisdom which are all account wide. --M age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]M ontu 10:09, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Speed and returns
I've added estimates of which place is faster and what the return is on the investment, based on my own data. I'm at about 3600 chest opens, and I've been collecting data since about 100 chests. So I'm confident that my data is pretty close to reality. -- Alaris 14:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think you should give a direct value, b/c the value of the times might be higher than the traders give you. --JonTheMon 15:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is an estimated average based on over 3k items. While it's true that it might change or depend on the salvage and resale method, it's still the best estimate so far we have of returns that players can use to estimate the real cost of the title. The vast majority of the estimate comes from direct resale to merc anyway, because at Boreal, I rarely get runes worth salvaging. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 15:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, what about components from items? Some of them have good resale values.  Or a rare skin might be worth quite a bit. --JonTheMon 15:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * True. So this should provide a lower-bound, i.e. the returns using the laziest approach. Putting more work (salvaging and finding buyers) into it will take time but provide better returns. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 15:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's not allowed on the main page, then it should at least be put here... The average value of the items you get (based on Boreal Station normal mode, with runes salvaged, sold to merchants) is 0.341, which adds upp to about 3410 to complete the title. Thus, the title's real cost is about 1600. I bold it so ppl looking for that info can find it quickly. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 17:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps make a drops value table? Like (Number, Average Value, General Location)? --JonTheMon 17:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Despite my scientific training, I couldn't be bothered to keep that level of detail in my data. I just keep track of the title progress and gold / LP I have after each session, and my character & account age. I'm planning to post that on the wiki for general use once I have the full data, but until then, I can still pluck out some interesting data. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 17:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * How did you come by that number? I've been keeping track since last week, myself.  Now, I haven't opened that many chests yet, but so far, I've come to an avarage of 240 gold.  Selling everything to the merchant and running in NM (Kilroy's dungeon, Boreal is constantly hiding chests from me...) --Lady Rhonwyn 12:02, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (1) I took only data from periods I was only doing chests, as opposed to farming. (2) I calculated the number of chests I opened. (3) I calculated the total change in my income, that which is due to lockpick loss due to breaking, and that due to selling items. (4) I divided the gain by selling items by the number of chests opened. Note, there is bound to be some variability due to region, and whether drops are good to you or not (especially on smaller sample sizes). -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you make sure to exclude gold drops in your income gain calculation? --JonTheMon 14:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I sell the golds I get from the chests, so those are included. But since I do not kill any monsters in chest runs, there are no drops. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Zen Daijun
Since this is one of the areas where under special conditions no enemies are available, wouldnt this be a nice place to freely run around in HM for chests? Last time i ran in HM I encounted at least 5-6 chests in the area.-- Karasu (talk) 02:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The consideration is usually not the monsters, but how many chest per hour you can get... usually by running to them rather than fighting monsters on the way. Because 10000 chests at the fastest place I found is still 200 hours of nothing but running chests. If you could try it and figure out an average number of chest per hour, that'd be helpful. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never thought of that area.. It should be a good place to chestrun.. [[Image:User_Teo_Sig_Icon.JPG|PLZ CLICK HERE]] ^ Teo ^ 14:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried it with no enemies present in HM, but found no chests whatsoever. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.147.140.227 (talk &bull; contribs) at 21:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC).

Complex Cost Analysis
This is an analysis of how to get the Treasure Hunter title track with the least cost possible. To this end, it is assumed that (1) only 600g chests are opened, (2) lockpicks are bought for 1.25k, (3) keys are used until lockpicks become beneficial(52%RR), and (4) both the Treasure Hunter and Lucky title tracks start at 0. Since the retention rate does not hit 52% for 600g chests until r4 Treasure Hunter, this costs 0.6k*1200=720k, after which lockpicks are used. The following table shows the rest of the data. It should also be noted that opening 4615 50g chests (after the treasure hunter title is maxed) will max the Lucky title track for an extra 231.25k. Blood Red Giant 01:03, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's fine to put this in the main article if you want; unless you're asking for certain feedback on this? -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 15:10, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it would be nice to add the unlucky track in it as well. With the update, it should keep up with lucky.  --Lady Rhonwyn 15:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * A static table like that might be useful to some, but it's a bit limited. It would be nice if we could have spreadsheets to do stuff like this.  --JonTheMon 15:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm using a spreadsheet, but more to keep track of my progress (and to see when I'll have finished my next title). It does calculate the amount of points I will get (statistically) and I can enter how many I really got.  That's how I know you'll probably max unlucky before lucky.  Not sure how only starting with lockpicks at lvl4 treasure hunter would impact that... --Lady Rhonwyn 18:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I added those numbers to my sheet and that gave me the following lucky and unlucky numbers: 1.421.130 and 497.732 --Lady Rhonwyn 19:07, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm getting numbers close to that also. Anyhow, it seems that with the new unlucky update, it'll get maxed before Lucky. --JonTheMon 19:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll edit the table to include the Unlucky points and add it to the main page, since that seems to be the general consensus. As for the descrepency in the Lucky title track numbers (my 1,392,500 vs your 1,421,130), it should be noted that for each seperate section of chests, there was often a fraction of a lockpick that could either have broken or have been retained (i.e. 385*0.52=200.2 is not a whole number). In such a case, I consistently assumed the lockpick in question would have broken and rounded down (i.e. in the case above, 200 lockpicks were retained and 185 broke). This does slightly decrease the amount of lucky points and increase the price, but I figured that it was better for the estimated final cost to be slightly higher than reality rather than slightly lower. Blood Red Giant 21:45, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I figured it was something like that. I don't round down, I like to see the "pure" statistics :D  And I'd say 30K is insignificant compared to the whole.  I think it's safe to say you'd get unlucky maxed (or about) and lucky at 1.4M. --Lady Rhonwyn 10:18, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In the main article this analysis was named the 'Least Cost Method'. The calculation itself is flawless, no comment on that. However, my own analysis shows that the name 'Least Cost' isn't justified. My excel sheet says there is a cheaper method. At first I thought it was an error in my sheet, but it isn't. My assumptions are: (1) Lockpick are bought for 1.25 each, (2) both the Treasure Hunter and Lucky title tracks start at 0, (3) use lockpicks from the start and only on chests with a 40% base retain rate (600 chests and locked chests in NM)..... How can that be cheaper, one would ask? I asked that question. At the start, each chest would cost 750, which is more than 600 for a key. Below is the table that goes with it. The difference is made by starting the Luck title right away, which has a positive influence on retain rate. As it appears, the additional cost for lockpicks at the start is more than made up for in later stages. My method is apperently ultimately 52.5 cheaper. If anyone can shoot a hole in the values in my table, feel free to do so. Disconnect 21:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Edited by Disconnect 21:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC) to add ranks to treasure hunter


 * Looks brilliant. I'll check the math later and update the page if it's correct. Good job. Blood Red Giant 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 52k out of 4000k? Not much of a difference, but it certainly is nice to know there's a different way. Now you should also note that the difference between your method and the old one will be even greater if using 1.2k keys (for those few who have access to them). But for me, it's all the extra luck that comes with it. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 03:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still 52.5. That's 11 or Z-keys (at current value). If you assume lockpicks are 1200 each, the difference is 3,764 expected broken lockpicks times 50 each, which comes down to a total cost reduction of 188.2. When I created the excel sheet I made the price of lockpicks exogenic, so that I can change its price and see the effect instantly. For 1200 lockpicks, it said that the final total cost was 4,516.8. That's indeed 188.2 less. Disconnect 13:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Should this table be in terms of cost, or lockpicks? While it may be common to get lockpicks for 1.25k, if someone has access to a discount merchant they may not want to deal with doing extra division+multiplication. Oh, and my calculations are off by 4 lockpicks, probably due to rounding. --JonTheMon 14:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I personally prefer to think of it in costs. It's a very simple common currency, and 1.25k lockpicks are readily available. If it's in lockpicks, then we'd have to multiple to know the cost. Mind you, we could have both. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 18:13, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) The math is solid, so I'm adding it to the main page. Blood Red Giant 07:17, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The page has been updated. I also added in a note about 1.2p lockpicks. Blood Red Giant 07:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hold on to your horses, 'cause I have returned with something even cheaper. Yes, really!! Seeing how the rounding up for breaks makes the calculation something of a sawtooth function, with its characteristic localized minimums, I decided to try every real number between 0 and 1200. In your calculations, run any of the following number of keys to use before switching to lockpicks: 105 - 131 - 166 - 182 - 215 - 219 - 243. Each of them will drop below the 4,700 marker. The cheapest I got was with 243 keys, bottoming out at 243 keys + 3639 lockpicks, costing 4,694.55 (4,512.6 for 1200g lockpicks). Disconnect 00:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Damn that would be hard to explain on the wiki. Do we just want to live in denial? It'd be a lot easier than changing the page again. Blood Red Giant 13:55, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not worth the effort IMO, as we're talking 0.1% savings, which is not significant. And those 243 keys don't add to luck/unluck. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Cost Section Cleanup
With the addition of the Least Cost Method, the Cost section should probably be cleaned up. Blood Red Giant 07:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've just made an attempt to do that. Changed it into an analysis of several cost scenarios that I think are most common. Then kept the Least Cost Method to show progress through the ranks. If the change isn't liked, feel free to change it back, or change it to something that is liked better. With regard, Disconnect 21:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The section looks much better now. Blood Red Giant 14:03, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Great analysis. Given the title costs at least 220 hours, I think that'll be helpful info. I've added a small bit! -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:45, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

2009
With the revelation of Vaettir/Raptor farming, should anything be noted about farming Golden Eggs? I've already collected over 500 points since the weekend began, and I haven't been farming as hardcore as a lot of people. 128.255.195.88 18:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What, the fact that farming Eggs is faster/cheaper/easier than Chestrunning? I think people are able to figure this out for themselves. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 22:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still, it probably warrants notice. Spending about 12 hours I was able to go from about 150 points to r4 at 1200 points. 128.255.195.88 04:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If we do (and we should), the notice should mention the pros & cons. Pros: make money farming, get TH points. Cons: no lucky/unlucky points, only possible once a year. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 21:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Builds
I know this is not PvX, but I would love to see some kind of reference to what builds are used to run fast/get better drops/whatever. Ofc this would basically be any speed boost and protection, but what works best where? -- Karasu (talk) 14:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As paragon or warrior, charge & fallback offer two good group running skills. I've setup my two paragon heroes with those, and they provide me with constant 33% faster speed without need to micro-manage (they stack the two skills which is useless, but it's still enough to run the chests in Boreal). Alternatively, in the same area, you can use a R/A with dash (50%) and expertise-based 33% increased speed to get a slightly faster speed. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 00:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Price of the Lockpick: Static or Dynamic
As was recently noted and acted upon by Silver Edge, this page has been maintaining content in reference to the current player market, which, at first glance, is against the current wiki policy listed here. Now, that policy is in reference to static versus dynamic pricing. The wiki does not wish to maintain information on prices that may change on a regular basis. However, static prices (such as the sell value to a merchant NPC) is perfectly acceptable. The policy also specifically lists "buy/sell prices [...] between players" as an example for dynamic prices (for very good reason), and as such, Silver Edge was well within his bounds to remove the offending material. Still, there is something that needs to be said about the price of lockpicks. The price of a lockpick on the player market in the quantities required for the Treasure Hunter title track has and always will be 1250 for very good reason. First, absolutely no one in their right mind goes for this title using a regular merchant. Second, discount merchants have always been and will always be only available to a very small group of players. Third, the drop rate of lockpicks is no where near enough to sustain the demand established by this title. Fourth, the margin of profit per lockpick (50g) is already extremely low and thus will not decrease, while the shear number of sellers prevents the price from increasing. Due to these extenuating circumstances, the price of a lockpick in the player market remains firmly at 1250. Due to this, I suggest considering this price to be static rather than dynamic and reinstate the information that has be removed.

Also, if it is decided that this information should continue to remain deleted, the table on the Least Cost Method should be updated accordingly as it makes very little sense in its current context.  Blood Red Giant   Mani Mortus  06:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, rules are there for a reason, however if they impede common sense then they should be ignored. This is a special case and whilst the player sell price is dynamic in theory, in reality it is static and also very relevant to this example. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 11:43, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree also. The reason we don't typically list player market values is because it is frequently not agreed upon and is too dynamic. I believe the value of 1250 has shown itself to be both stable and well-known. --JonTheMon 12:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:40, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted the removal based on these comments, as I also completely agree with this. Most Treasure Hunters get the majority of their picks at that price if they don't own a town, which is only a small fraction of the title seekers.  A note or disclaimer might be added to explain that 1250 is dictated by players and may change, but has proven itself to be very stable over a long time and is likely to stay that way.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  20:34, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The price changes and we do not list player prices. If we list the player price here then we have to list it everywhere. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 21:24, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, we don't have to list it everywhere. And if you're so avid about removing it, how about you remove ALL of the 1250 price entries in the article?  Like the analysis tables and the descriptions?  Did you read them?  Don't remove one little piece that makes the rest of the article inconsistent.  Discuss it first, or remove the whole thing and not pieces of it.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:28, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Everything on this wiki works on consistency. This article should be no different. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 21:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The wiki works to provide information. If a player price can be reliably listed, consistency can take a back-seat - the consistency exists because, usually, player prices are unreliable. -- [[Image:User Brains12 circle sig.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree completely. At most it should say "at ceaper prices from players" since I see a range in price everytime I log in. Not ever now and then, everytime I log in. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 21:35, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When the game bugs out and people sell lockpicks for 100g, you will have a point. As stated above, the price of lockpicks at merchants does not change and never will. The small difference between the real and discount price will ensure the player price stays stable, even within that small 250 gap.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:37, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I cant remember seeing it fluctuating more than 200 gold C4K3 [[Image:User_C4K3_Signature.jpg]] Talk 21:38, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No Shard I see pick prices from 900g to 1.4k everyday. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 21:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There are exceptions to almost every rule. This rule is nothing special to not allow exceptions, because this one is significant.  In fact, that part of the analysis was the most valuable, as that's the price that most people buy picks at, and it just happens to not vary for a long long time now.  If this wiki only "documents" things, then it should not have any walkthroughs or tips about anything whatsoever, as those are also very dynamic, much more so than the 1250 price of lockpicks.  This "every time I log in" and "every day" thing you claim sounds rather bogus.  Yes, I see a couple people selling 2 or 3 lockpicks at varying prices rather often, but any time you see someone selling hundreds of them, it's always at 1250, the most common number being 80 for 100k.  Take significance into account, please.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with everyone else. Lockpick price has been 1250g for longer than a year and it will only change if the merchant price changes. User Sower_of_chaossig.jpg '' Sower 21:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If that moment ever comes, we can always change every 1250g or multiple thereof into the proper number. I don't see that moment coming any time soon, though.

We have policies for a reason. There should be no exceptions. DrogoBoffin 21:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Why should there be no exceptions? That's what communists said about capitalism.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Policies are never perfect and do not cover everything, there should always be exceptions in cases such as this C4K3 [[Image:User_C4K3_Signature.jpg]] Talk 21:47, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Again the wiki is supposed to be consistent and bias free. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 21:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And who is the most biased here? Oh, wait, what bias are you talking about?  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:51, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Guys, please, let's not fight over this. Drogo, you seem to be the only one on the side of strict policy right now.  Please ask someone from Anet who watches over this wiki for their opinion on the matter.  I don't know if that would be Emily or someone else.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Im not asking anybody from Anet for their opinion on anything since they cant even fix their broken game. The wiki was handed over to the community. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 22:06, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, the community has spoken at 9 vs. 1 at the moment. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  22:05, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Drogo, the policy is in reference to Dynamic vs Static pricing with the player market simply being a general reference. Are you arguing that this price is not static? Because it is quite obvious from the responses here that the price is considered static in this specific instance, and thus follows the rules (just not the example).  Blood Red Giant  [[Image:User Blood Red Giant sig.jpg]]  Mani Mortus  23:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Creating the numbers here, I have taken three prices into account: normal merchant, discount merchant and player market value. First; note that lockpicks can be bought for a static price at merchants. This is unlike Rare Materials, Materials, Dyes and Runes and Insignias, for whom Trader prices are shaped by supply and demand with their respective traders. Second; as long as discount merchants exist, normal merchant prices may be fully ignored. So then we have to look at the other two. As said several times already above, one can buy limitless amounts of lockpicks in any port city. The price is slightly above discount merchant prices. It's easy money. That's why there will always be an unlimited supply. For 1250g per lockpick. That is very static. That alone is reason enough to be exempted from the Prices Policy. Policies and Protocols should only be used if they make sense in the situations where you intend to use them, anyways. Absolute Uniformity be damned if they don't. Third; If you can save about 180 platinum just by having a good friend inside a town-owning alliance or by joining one such alliance yourself, which isn't that hard, I would say 1200g/lockpick IS a feasible scenario. Feasible enough to justify adding it here. Personally, I just wanna know this number as much as the 1250g scenario, because I do have access to 1200g lockpicks. And with me many others, I assume. Disconnect 15:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's ok, man. This discussion ended 4 months ago. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 17:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

HoM
So at what rank can this be displayed in the HoM? I was under the impression that this and wisdom could be displayed from r2 onwards, like the Lucky titles. After reading the discussion on the wisdom, it seems that that one can only be displayed at r7. I think it would clarify things if someone could just add that to the article (for both this and wisdom, and I guess all titles that don't have it).97.122.171.155 16:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Max rank. Go to the Honor monument page, it lists the rank required. --Freedom Bound 16:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Boreal Station
When farming chests here how can I resign and end up next to the portal? Everyone who farms here does this but I can't figure out how. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Madbob (talk).
 * When you /resign, you're mapped to the outpost you left from (after clicking the message that comes up). Resurrecting would allow you to go back to the original shrine near the portal (assuming you haven't activated a further shrine), but that wouldn't help much, as the chests you've opened would still be open. -- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 18:27, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he/she means that when you resign and click to go back to the outpost, you spawn at the portal you entered the explorable from. I've read about it but can't remember how you do it. -[[Image:User Oneshot O.JPG|19px]] ne shot.  18:30, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Easiest way to do that would be to die, resurrect at the nearest (original) shrine, then run in through the portal. I'm not aware of a way to get a particular spawn point within an outpost without using a portal. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound  [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 18:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You zone out, then zone back into town (by walking). Then zone out and proceed with your activities.  Then /resign to town should spawn you close to the portal. 158.121.88.54 18:34, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, it seems the spawn selection may be based upon your most recent manual entrance, so while mapping gets you random, zoning through the portal would get you "stuck" on that spawn point. Good to know, thanks. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 18:40, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Witman faster than Boreal using Shadow Warriors?
Build and explanation pls, because I could not even with the best ranger running build make Witman as fast as Boreal... and I did these two runs a lot and collected a lot of data... -- Alaris 20:42, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Golden Eggs. Am I missing something here?
Farming Golden Eggs during Sweet Treat Weekends is an efficient method of gaining points. Wait, what? Shizmar 04:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind that, I completely missed it, but I get it now. 12.110.38.200 06:06, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Boreal Bans
I heard, Anet is banning or going to ban ppl who run the Boreal Chest, is this true? - Stimpson J Kat  21:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * i doubt it's true Duke Falcus 13:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Q: Can farming all day get me banned?
 * A:
 * source &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 15:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

CoF CR
So I spent much of the weekend running chests in Cathedral of Flames, which is about 1 minute 10 seconds repeat time, and 1-2 chests (0 being about 1/250 runs, based on 1700 runs). I don't remember where I read about it, nor have I looked all that hard to find it. However, the run offers different skins, plus runes, which in my opinion, elevates it over the Ice Cliffs run. However, you will probably want a team build allowing 33% to 50% run speed the entire time. I don't know if anyone else has tried this, so I thought it warranted a discussion for verification and validity. I could probably write a guide at this point if anyone cannot figure out what I'm talking about. First level, CoF. As usual, candy in town will slightly reduce run time from above estimate. -- Axis 09:35, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * No one writes about it because everyone does Fronis or Ice Cliffs; that doesn't make them better, just better known. I've looked on the web, guru, etc to find descriptions of other chest runs beyond, "start here" and haven't found much detail. No doubt there are several other zones that offer more interesting chest runs.


 * For the meantime, I've added your route to the table. If you want to add a map and link it to this discussion, that would be great. At some point, it would be helpful to have a chest run guide on the wiki and that would be a good route to include. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 10:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * ^^That. I haven't been able to find any chest running tips besides those two and that one Grawl area near Droknar's (which blows as far as drops). If you can provide any more details on your CoF chest run, that would be much appreciated, such as what team do you use to help you run, and a map. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 15:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

CoF Chest Run walkthrough
This run will require micromanagement of heroes.

If you find that they are not using the speed buffs, you need to use it for them, to ensure at least 33% IMS the whole time. "Fall Back!" or "Incoming!" should be active at all times for healing. Flagging the party is also a good idea, because it will make it slightly easier to survive if they are taking the first hits. Expect to be body-blocked at times in the hall leading to the second room, consider using click to move to get out, and reflagging heroes. You will die a few times when you first start trying this run. Charr Axemasters use Bull's Strike so be ready with an anti-KD. Crypt Ghouls use Hamstring, so either use "I am Unstoppable!" before contact, or after being crippled to prevent slowdown. Using a hero's "Charge!" will also remove the condition. Wastrel's Worry can be dealt with by using any skill besides Dash (so as not to outdo your party). Dash can be used as a last burst to the final chest, or as a way to catch up to your heroes and henchmen after the first chest. Expect some of your party to die every time.
 * Two Paragon Heroes: OQCiYyo8wj3x5YfsAAAAAAAA (No less than two paragons is recommended)
 * Warrior Hero: OQkiUxm8wW2x+YuyRDvIAAAA (Use third paragon if possible, energy can be a problem; Recommend keeping build, see below)
 * Self: OgcScZMTDHpG/asS0kTQ3k0G (Can be any class with the ranger skills, used to run with monk, this is probably faster/fastest)
 * Bringing sturdy henchmen that don't have spells, such as both rangers and both warriors, is advised, but not necessary.

The basic idea is to always be running, never stopping to cast, only stopping for chests. Faster builds probably exist within the realm of shadow runners. However, these would be solo builds, as you would outclass your heroes' running abilities, and might be more difficult to survive with. Equipment should likely include armor and health bonuses.

Tips: Only stop the party to resurrect yourself. Bringing people is not recommended for cycle times. Consider using time spent running to Gron Fierceclaw for identifying items, and sorting inventory, to maximize efficiency. Keep a mental or physical list of worthwhile runes, inscriptions, insignias, mods, weapon skins, and upgrades handy to speed the sorting of inventory. Practice and you will improve. Synergize with Sweet Tooth by using candy to minimize time in town. Often it is only important to get the party to the entrance to the second room. One can run past the final mobs and tank at the final chest if necessary. If do not have all the skills listed, the priority should be "Fall Back!", "Incoming!" or "Charge", and basic survival skills for yourself. One can go pretty far with those skills alone, the rest are mostly personal preference, choose what you like to work with.



Yellow circles represent the approximate space in between which one to two chests can spawn. The white circle is the maximum distance you have to travel to see all the possible spawns in that instance. I had to pick up a chest at the party location, hence the green arrow where it is.

Rewards include an average of 10 runes per 35 items, and somewhere between 20-40% rare drops. Results will vary. Some uncommon skins, such as Sephis Swords, Equine Aegis, Pyrewood Staves, etc, have been acquired here. If inventory time is minimized, one can average better than a chest a minute over the aggregate.

I hesitated to use the line, but I couldn't get the formatting right with indents. Feel free to change.

Keep Running.-- Axis 22:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I've turned this into a new section for two reasons: (1) so that it's easier to find and (2) to separate discussion of the walkthrough from discussion of the idea to consider chest runs besides Fronis and Ice Cliffs. (Also: thanks for putting this together.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 22:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Linked to it and slightly updated. -- Axis 06:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I used this to run solo in here OgmiYysMVgdXegRe1etjRTiTCA In normal mode.. slightly less effective in HM but doable about 70% Osman Digna 19:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)