Talk:Expert's Dexterity

Adrenline
Any1 knows how this works with adrenline skills? does it still make then cost %%% more energy? ~ Kurd 17:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I heard it was one of the most useless elites around. Try it out for you're self and reply back here =) -- [[Image:Blackgeneralstar.png|19px]] ( General |  Talk ) 17:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm, adrenaline skills don't recharge...so this would be useless. >.> Arshay Duskbrow 00:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * DoH!, i knew that! ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 00:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, don't worry. It's useless with energy-based skills, too. :P Arshay Duskbrow 02:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * They dooooooo!! i found one! Whirlwind Attack!!! ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 14:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Cost Table
Can anyone confirm that the listed costs are correct, in particular the values over 25e? I was led to believe that 25 was the cost ceiling, due to this skill's interaction with Energizing_Wind (every skill costs 10e under the two I believe). If 25e is not a cap, then EW must be not acting as the description states.--Gus 18:38, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's right, and it's awful. With less than 15 expertese you can use TWO 10e skills in a row before you have to wait 10 seconds to use another, and you CAN'T USE concussion shot... Maestro Ed 15:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not saying it doesn't suck, but concussion shot has liek 4 second recharge anwyays, wouldn't need this for that skill. Dancing Gnome 20:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Cost Table No2
I've tested the costs for 5 and 10 energy skills. The list is incorrect for 5 Energy. I don't know why (I find no fitting function for this), but the costs are like this:

! Cost / Expertise !! 0 !! 1 !! 2 !! 3 !! 4 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 10 !! 11 !! 12 !! 13 !! 14 !! 15 !! 16 It must be a wrong calculation of the game itself... Lord Nelson 16:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 5 || 12 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 9 || 8 || 8 || 8 || 7 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 5 || 4
 * }
 * }
 * Game is right chart is wrong. 5*1.5+5=7.5*.48 = 6
 * This is wrong... 5 x 1.5 = 7.5; 7.5 x .4 = 3 . (this is at 15 expertise. 16 is 2.7, which would round up?)--Risus 02:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually the math is this: Skill *increases* cost by 150%, so total cost is 250%. The cost is reduced by (.04*Expertise) so the final cost becomes: 2.5x5x(1-.04*Expertise) = 2.5x5x(1-.6) = 12.5x(.4) = 5. btw I *fail* at wiki editing. 76.10.139.167 17:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Um....
I though recharge dosen't stack beyond 50%--71.114.89.67 22:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As with everything that stacks, if the effect is caused by a single skill, it can very well be higher than the stacking border. LunarEffect 11:16, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Except for Focused Anger, which really needs to be fixed. - Anon --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:147.226.244.15.
 * I thought max IAS was 33% ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 12:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Underpowered
/I care, every single build with this elite is destinated to fail, prove me wrong 87.189.227.218 12:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * R/D Scythe Spammer--Fallen (talk ) 04:14, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Distract Shot --217.198.218.251 02:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * PvE build.--Fallen (talk ) 21:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Bugged?
I propose that this skill is bugged, making it useless. It is not taking into account the benefit of Expertise cost reduction. A simple test reveals (as stated in "Cost Table 2" above) that an e5 skill costs 8 at Expertise 10. This is utterly ridiculous. At Expertise 10, an e5 skill costs 3. 150% of 3 is 5. So with Expert's Dexterity in effect at level 10 Expertise you would be at break-even. This is much more reasonable than the way it works now with break-even at 15 Expertise. If the Expertise reduction were in effect the cost table would look pretty good:

! Cost / Expertise !! 0 !! 1 !! 2 !! 3 !! 4 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 10 !! 11 !! 12 !! 13 !! 14 !! 15 !! 16 If the cost table were like this, then this skill would have value. --Doodle01 04:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 5 || 8 || 8 || 7 || 7 || 7 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 5 || 5 || 5 || 4 || 4 || 4 || 3 || 3
 * }
 * }
 * The skill is working properly... It *increases* the cost by 150%. So the cost is 2.5xNormal. The cost table becomes:

! Cost / Expertise !! 0 !! 1 !! 2 !! 3 !! 4 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 10 !! 11 !! 12 !! 13 !! 14 !! 15 !! 16
 * 5 || 12.5 || 12 || 11.5 || 11 || 10.5 || 10 || 9.5 || 9 || 8.5 || 8 || 7.5 || 7 || 6.5 || 6 || 5.5 || 5 || 4.5
 * }
 * (Before rounding)
 * The formula used for each cell in the above table is: 2.5xEnergyx(1-0.4*Expertise), according to Doodle01's data [see above] this is incorrect however as the costs in practice are different than the expected costs.
 * 76.10.139.167 17:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 76.10.139.167 17:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Cyclone Axe
I tried 15 expertise using this and using cyclone axe. its 4e and u can use it once, 1reg hit, use it again, 1reg hit, use it again. i thought it should be spammable without and ias making it 1.33sec per attack with cyclone having 1sec recharge...missing something?--Justice 20:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Skills do not recharge while you are using them. That means you have to wait to use a skill unless the skill has no recharge. <>208.117.81.202 17:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Attacker's Insight
This skill seems to interract strangely with Attacker's Insight. Testing using this skill may help to reveal how Expert's Dexterity stacks with Expertise. I noted that at 15 expertise, 10e skills only got 6e reduction from Attacker's Insight when it gave 11e, 10e, and 9e reductions. Attacker's Insight also gave 2e reduction from 5e reduction. I didn't test any farther, though. <>208.117.81.202 17:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I just tested some. Here are the results.
 * Expertise=16
 * Costs with Attacker's Insight
 * Reduction- Energy Cost (5, 10, 25)
 * 0- 4, 9, 22
 * 5- 3, 7, 21
 * 6- 2, 7, 20
 * 7- 2, 6, 20
 * 8- 2, 6, 20
 * 9- 1, 6, 19
 * 10- 1, 5, 19
 * 11- 1, 5, 19
 * 12- 0, 5, 18
 * 13- 0, 4, 18
 * 14- 0, 4, 17
 * 15- 0, 4, 17
 * 16- 0, 3, 17
 * 17- 0, 3, 16
 * I hope this helps. <>208.117.81.202 18:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's that table in Table format :)

! Cost / Reduction !! 0 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 10 !! 11 !! 12 !! 13 !! 14 !! 15 !! 16 !! 17
 * 5 || 4 || 3 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 1 || 1 || 1 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0 || 0
 * 10|| 9 || 7 || 7 || 6 || 6 || 6 || 5 || 5 || 5 || 4 || 4 || 4 || 3 || 3
 * 25|| 22 || 21 || 20 || 20 || 20 || 19 || 19 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 17 || 16
 * }
 * This seems to follow the formula: (2.5x(Cost)-Reduction)*(1-.04*Expertise) which is then rounded.
 * 76.10.139.167 17:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * }
 * This seems to follow the formula: (2.5x(Cost)-Reduction)*(1-.04*Expertise) which is then rounded.
 * 76.10.139.167 17:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

August 08 update
So im guessing no comments are a good thing? --~Phill Gaston ‎ 17:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Still testing the possibilities really. IAS and a flat bow damage buff isn't alway's easy to see as a good thing compared to the previous form of primary and secondary all attack skills buff if you keep an eye on your energy management. It is a far more useable version of Rapid Fire and seems to be good with Choking Gas, Disrupting Accuracy, Kindle Arrows and other damage buffs but it will take time to be sure. --Don Knowall 17:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The ingame duration seems to be different than the one described here (and in the update notes). It actually is 1..15 second(s). Anybody cares to edit?Tele 18:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Forget bows, use a scythe like everyone else. 33% IAS is only useful for scythe rangers. --82.83.51.206 18:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, hello? 33% IAS with no downside besides being elite?. o_O --68.32.187.152 16:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd rather have the 2 second recharging d shot than an elite IAS. <>208.117.81.49 01:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I would prefer that the +2 to Marksmanship was changed to "and bow attacks recharge 25% faster." --Don Knowall 09:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone try putting on a marksmanship headpiece + sup marksmanmanship + this + +1 wep mod to reach 19 marksmanship even in PvP? It should be possible to reach the 20 attribute level with a consumable in PvE as well.  I'm not a primary rgr so I don't know how much that helps the damage scales for the bow attacks. I know it makes a sizable difference for some other classes though....Loki207.71.50.165 18:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * how about with preparations such as read the wind (faster arrows, more damage), rapid fire (even more IAS), or disrupting accuracy (higher marksmanship = more interrupts) 72.45.60.6 04:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * IAS does not stack past 33%... Arshay Duskbrow 01:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, with these changes, we gain several major advantages:
 * 1. It is a STANCE!  Let me reiterate this, because I'm sure some of you are thinking 'oh yeah so what'.  Stance means you can use preparations in combination with this elite.
 * 2. Since your IAS is capped out, you've got every non-elite preparation available for boosting things *other* than speed.  It's nice not having to trade out speed for damage for a change.
 * 3. Don't forget there is also Drunken Stability, folks.
 * 4. Comes in what may be one of the best primary attributes of the game.

Disadvantage?
 * 1. It's an elite.
 * 2. Wait, there is no 2.  You've reached the end of the disadvantage list already.
 * --Eyekwah 16:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * A Sloth-hunter hits hard. An expert Sloth-hunter hits even harder. What about expert hunters that read the wind? Of course that's nothing special, but it gives a certain grouo of players (maybe I am alone) the chance to compede with other ways to play Rangers by using the machine gun of the woods. Be intelligent and use superior runes, bow attacks with great progressions (Keen Arrow even profits of greater critical rates at higher ranks) and preparations which add absolute damage (most viable Reading the Wind or Focusing your inner Expert). It's obvious, it's simple, it can prove powerful and it might be fun. 91.0.197.211 05:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Great for PvE. Use this with Read the Wind, and Focused Shot. If you want to change it up and bring a Preparation from Wilderness Survival, you can. Put your attributes at 11 marks, 10 expertise, and 10 wilderness survival. Then grab superior runes for all three attributes. All in all, it's a wonderful skill for PvE play whenever you're not barraging.72.161.115.13 20:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno, I have been using this with a short bow and a Expert's focus and it seems to do very well with short range skills and adds a very nice speed of attack when all of these things are combined. I am using 14 expertise with this setup. If anyone is curious this is the build I am working with - OgATYxLnV6yAV6xIMkXD1gzg2AA 108.75.73.62 20:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Related skills
Awaken the Blood, Glyph of Elemental Power Etc? --Chaos Messenger 11:04, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If so, then Awaken the Blood because the Glyph has limited uses. The related-borders have always been very unclear. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 11:31, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Glyph has 10 charges over 15 seconds. It is hard to use them all up, because of aftercast and such.  StatMan 19:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Nerfed Nov 6th
Remove the stance part, make it just a skill and I'll accept this nerf. Otherwise, I don't think I wanna use this much anymore. 68.51.83.92 03:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose I can see the need to reduce the attribute bonus to lower critical chance / passive damage / direct damage, but the speed buff should have been left at 33%. Even at 33%, most bows couldn't attack faster than a hammer/scythe (before speed buff). ~ marcdarc 03:46, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah but when mixed with Read the Wind it made this pretty OP --[[Image:User Wild rituals signature.png|Talk]]Wild 05:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and maybe you guys should learn that this sort of talk belongs on the PvP version, since this version isn't changed.Crimmastermind 06:11, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you look at when this discussion was started, you will see that it began before the split in the articles existed. FYI. Denizen Zero 13:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I miss the old one
Especially for PvE. Sure the new version is more widely usable, but Expert's Dexterity is the only real skill that could reduce the recharge of attack skills by such a large ammount, making for some very interesting builds.

Ok, so I just miss being able to spam Club of a Thousand Bears, so what? :P 75.187.206.97 19:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The PvE version + RTW + shots like Penet/sundering gives dps that is unmatched on a single target. Scythes may have a greater effect with multiple mobs but it can't touch the single target dps of this combo.

I'm with the guy here, I miss my 2 sec recharge d-shot and my ability to spam KD and daze as a beastmaster. This skill used to be fun to use, now it's boring... especially with the nerf. <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Disrupting Stab.jpg]][[Image:Lotus Strike.jpg]][[Image:Horns of the Ox.jpg]][[Image:Falling Lotus Strike.jpg]][[Image:Expert's Dexterity.jpg]][[Image:Lightning Reflexes.jpg]][[Image:Whirling Defense.jpg]][[Image:Resurrection Signet.jpg]]
 * q.q Mediggo 10:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The recharges, IAS, and activation times line up such that you can get 4 shots off every 4 seconds just by spamming the attack skills and each will do pretty heavy damage. Energy is also a total non-issue if you have a zealous mod. I wouldn't go as far though as saying it's unmatchable as far as single target dps goes. Necromas 17:32, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

with its current ability, I dont see why it cant be similar to the Ele's Elite, Double Dragon, where you're able to max out your Marksmanship to 20 after X amount of uses. They have nearly identical traits (in terms of PvE). Make the skill a bit more worth using. --70.162.177.57 06:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)