Feedback talk:Game updates/20100128

Jan 28th update
After the last update i can't login anymore. Checked typing,capslock,pwd and mail. nothing!

I just restarted my client so as to let it update, and once it finished I can't log into my account anymore. Triple checked spelling, caps lock etc. Another guildie is having the same problem. BenderRodriguez 23:48, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Check Regina's Journal --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 23:49, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * -_- — piper doesn't talk 23:50, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Im alone in GW lol XD look - http://pics.kz/s3/41/e9/a3/2d/41e9a32de00e9ce80602be8002eeac6f.jpg"--faraon2005ramses 23:52, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * After this update I could not log in. Neither could my wife. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.208.209.155 (talk).
 * It is possible with -email, -password, and -character. – User Balistic Pve B d-dark.jpgalistic 00:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Update Notes:
 * -The Game was removed from the game. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.193.204.223 (talk).
 * i tryed to long on same with my freind we couldnt either --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.103.242.129 (talk).
 * can't log in either. I also reseted my password, but didn't get a mail yet. Did it twice. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.8.23.135 (talk).
 * I just tried and the exact same thing happened to me! I thought it was cuz I'm high lol woops >.> I mean, uh... 70.189.106.136 00:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * All fixed everyone! login now and see. Vlatro 173.87.126.79 00:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This is absolutely the best bug ever Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:47, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it was to help players understand what it's like to be Smiter's Boon (PvP) or Glass Arrows (PvP). -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  01:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Glass Arrows was NOT as bad as Smiter's Boon... Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 02:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * OK... so it wasn't super overkilled, just overkilled. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  02:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Anets best nerf yet. Killed guild wars players for 15 mins-- Nataliexxx 15:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Please stop overexagerating. It sucks but a few less damage points isn't 25/90.  65.40.197.16 19:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Log in issues
Can log in.... --Sageofprofession 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the club.-- Kage No  Yugata  00:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * via Regina on Twitter "Hang in there, everyone. We're continuing to work on the login issues. Thanks for your patience. :) ~RB" --[[Image:User Master Saji Sig.jpg]] Master Saji 00:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

1-28-2010 Bug
After the new update i am recieving error 227 when i try to log in. anyone else confirm? Sonic Thursday 23:56, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Confirmed, it's being worked on. -- Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 23:56, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, i think others are getting this too, i know i am. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.234.132.104 (talk).
 * Oh, thank the lord. I thought it was just me and I was hacked. xD --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.229.36.11 (talk).
 * Yes, I even e-mailed support, but on a hunch searched twitter, and apparently there are a dozen tweets in the last 20 minutes that say "we know, working on it..." or something to that effect, most of which are signed "~RB", so I assume it's the community supervisor speaking. I am also still able to log into the PlayNC store with my old password, so the password did not change there, it's just an issue with the update. Vlatro 173.87.126.79 00:10, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Regina (RB) & Martin (MK) are on it! -- S ilverleaf   [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|Special:Contributions/Silverleaf]] Don't assume, Know! 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I Miss Gaile!!!!!! I had the same thing happen as I guess lots of ppl are now. I went to NCSoft's site and changed my password and it still didn't work. But why would it? To change your password you have to enter your old password. If it takes it then it wasn't a problem of entering in the wrong password anyway. But I had to try it... 70.189.106.136 00:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Can't login....
Update bug! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Aedin Veri (talk).
 * This must be the update where Shadow Form gets nerfed. It broke the game all over again! Darn SF.. :( 75.62.3.33 00:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Cant log in either... hooray for guild wars fawk upz :/ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Chemie33 (talk).
 * Honestly, I hope that shadow form doesn't get nerfed too badly --Sageofprofession 00:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I DEMAND 100K for each MINUTE the game is down! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.140.15.215 (talk).
 * The game wasn't down, you just didn't know how to get in. 24.197.253.243 04:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Login issue as well
and now I know how addicted I have become when I can't login when I want to.... PackerFanDoug --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:PackerFanDoug (talk).

I'm thinking maybe... we all lost all our stuff!!! Noooooooooo i guess its time to title farm irl :( ~Chemical~ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Chemie33 (talk).
 * Fixed with new update.--Pyron Sy 00:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

A quick suggestion
Maybe an admin should make a note of the log in issues on the update under the heading of GW Wiki notes. Just thinking it would relieve much pain and suffering on the part of support and A-Net --Sageofprofession 00:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The notes are coming. Just be patient. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  00:26, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, my log-in ussues were fixed in the 2nd update. Thrain[[File:User_Thrain_Sig.png]] contribs 00:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Login Bug Fixed
Everyone should be able to login again...new build. --Dominator Matrix  00:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * According to Regina it's an Emergency Build...whatever that may mean --[[Image:User Master Saji Sig.jpg]] Master Saji 00:30, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Means that the build had serious priority to get out...as well you could not login. --Dominator Matrix  05:06, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Oooh, something small, but new
I was always slightly annoyed at having my "login character name" lead me to that same character on the "selection screen" (lead to me not always being able to re-connect after a D/C. That has very nicely been changed. Oh, yes, and I can log back in. Thanks for the speed, Anet! 96.48.131.210 00:29, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Ranger Nerfs
Yeah, I've QQd over this once or twice already, but these changes are beyond what I was expecting. Power Shot retarded, and the aftercasts are just nails in the nerf coffin. The only limited things that Rangers have been able to do is spread conditions and interrupt; now they can be even less effective in doing those things. -Ninjatek 00:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Lolwut? Only silly gimmick rangers are nerfed, learn how to play a proper ranger kthx, especially since anet made it piss easy for scrubs to land cripshot now. Pika Fan 00:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * -Jerks are not Tolerated --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.140.15.215 (talk).
 * Yay for nerfdates.--67.224.170.227 01:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This bans Bow complete out of RA. Horray vor Rangersins or Rangervishs, the only reason for bow now is rupting, nuthin else... *applause* oO, where is the nerf of Shadowform? -Kali Shin Shivara 01:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * SF nerf is next week according to a post by Regina on guru..so we will see. i almost thought this update wasnt going to happen today.
 * The nerfs I've been referring to are to PVP by the way - I just wanted to clarify that. And yeah Kali Shin, the usefulness of bows has been severely diminished over the past year or so.  You can't even use the most basic condition spreading technique any more (Quickshot + Poison/Bleeding). May as well put a grey lock icon over the Bow entirely. Or, they could give the Rangers Pom-pons and have them cheer from the sidelines. -Ninjatek 01:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The fuck? You needed Quickshot to spread poison? 98.248.90.248 01:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

OK why nerf the ranger more ? why in hell do you hate them so much? Your not balancing anything, your just fucking over an already underpowered class. I hope you'll be happy when no on plays GW2, Because we can already see that all you will do is destroy that game like you destroy this one. Congrats Anet, go to work for Blizzard, they like your style of " balancing skills. Oh , and one more thing, FUCK YOU!
 * Cuz spikes every 10 seconds or so with mass pressure in the middle from massively buffed rangers and paragons with a shitload of armor is definitely underpowered. 98.248.90.248 01:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That may be true, but they haven't brought Rangers down to a level playing field - instead, they've handicapped them down to the point where they're underpowered and ineffective with the weapon they were designed to use primarily (a bow). Think of a scale - balance is both sides being equal.  These changes do not put Rangers on equal ground with anyone.  In fact, take your best PVP Bow Ranger build to the Isle of the Nameless (PvP) and try to kill the Master of Survival - you can't do it any more.  You know why?? - because all Ranger's can do is spread easily healed conditions.  They can't. deal. direct. damage. anymore. -Ninjatek 01:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's still really easy. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  01:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * With a bona fide PVP Bow build that you would take to a GvG match? I think not.  Post a video. -Ninjatek 01:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Why would I take a bow build into GvG that isn't Cripshot now? -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  01:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * (edited) Go kill the Master of Survival with your GVG Cripshot build then. Good luck. -Ninjatek 01:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Burning arrow and mels shot both sai hai. Pewpewing damagae (especially on splits) is still very possible with those elites. Plus melshot applies cripple buried under 2 conditions instead of just one--TahiriVeila 01:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * By nerfing partyheals, they've just indirectly buffed condition spreading. I herd that poison on 8 characters is the equivalent of 64 dps, not even including regular bow attacks, and the additional pressure caused by rupting? 98.248.90.248 01:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

First of all, the nerf to powershot is  ridiculous, it is called POWERSHOT. I wonder what exactly you expect a ranger to do. Why do you constantly nerf rangers ? It's bad enough your after Shadow Form Assasins, now you feel the need to further nerf and already underpowered m and greatly overlooked  character class ? Seriously, i can do more damage with a bow in pre-seer and not even click a skill. What are you aiming for ? And what is this after cast crap ? It's bad enough rangers weren't  given enough energy to execute their builds without running dangerously close to having none. Do you want us to just throw our bows out completely ? Is this kind of skill " adjustment" the kind of blatant prejudice toward a character class the kind of  thing i have to look forward to in this game? Not to mention god knows what your going to do to rangers in GW2 ? WAKE UP ANET! We are tired of you destroying all the classes and making it more difficult to do anything worth doing in the game. LEAVE US ALONE! STOP NERFING SKILLS! You made them the way you did originallly because they WORKED! Warriors shouldnt be the only characters to do direct damage. Go let someone shoot with a bow, see how much it really does hurt. ( especially considering the velocity an arrow travels at ). My team counts on me to do my part, whether it is PVE or PVP, and your ruining that. As a matter of fact, your doing everything possible to ruin the whole game. If you want to do something good, restore all the traps to where they are worth using, put some damage back to bow rangers so we can be counted on for long range damage,  dont nerf SF, ppl who bitch about sins are pussies , and how about this... if you wanna nerf something... nerf the retared amount of points some of those damn titles require for completion. Leave the players alone, we spend OUR time on your game to make it great just as much as you do. We deserve better treatment from a company who believes in " accessibility " and " true custom characters". --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Vampire2010 (talk).
 * Keep nerfing skills.
 * Have you been reading the discussion and links TahiriVeila, or are you just chiming in on the most recent post? Burning Arrow, although that's ONE skill that does do some good damage, also applies a condition, as does Melandru's Shot (which only applies them under certain conditions).  You're only reinforcing my point that the only thing Rangers are useful for is spreading conditions (which has been inhibited by the added aftercast) and interrupting.  My point, if you glossed over it, is that the Ranger's ability to do direct damage has been nerfed to the point that the class is losing its usefulness, and to Ranger fans like myself, it's losing its fun. -Ninjatek 02:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone who thinks bow rangers are dead should not be pvping. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:10, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I like how ninjatek avoids answering any comments that show that he's an idiot. 98.248.90.248 02:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * wow, it shows how ip is a moron.--67.224.170.181 03:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Good sir, please explain how any of my comments in this section have been moronic in any way. 98.248.90.248 03:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 98.248.90.248 - I will. I assume you're referring to your opinion about how nerfing party heals has buffed conditions, correct?  What does that have to do with my argument regarding the nerfing of direct damage-dealing Rangers?? I avoided commenting on your blah-blah because it was irrelevant and out of context.  If you think that the PVP changes to Mending Refrain (PvP) and Recuperation (PvP) are all of a sudden going to empower Condition-Rangers to the extent that we don't have to lament over their inability to deal direct damage, then you're going to catch some grief over that.  Listen up and listen good - my feedback isn't about conditions - it's about Rangers not being able to deal direct damage.  If you want to lol about how awesome Condition-Rangers are, then post elsewhere.  That's now what this is about. -Ninjatek 05:28, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There was that one, the one about condition spreading with quick shot, and the one about rangers being underpowered before the nerf(not actually sure if that was you, but the point stands). Spike rangers have only been used in gimmicky bullshit metas such as the current one. Rangers have primarily been used for pressure and rupts, with minor spike assist, for a long time. As stated, 64 dps is quite a lot, and with the nerf to all the passive regen doing around, sticking 4 degen on the entire opposing party is extremely effective. You also have to remember that Power Shot now does almost the same damage as prenerf sloth on a 3 sec cooldown, and point blank/zojun's are still viable spike assists. Of course, with Glass Arrows nerfed, the spiking potential isn't going to be quite as high, but boring overly defensive ranged spike builds are boring and lame anyways. There is nothing wrong with the condition spread template, and it has been an extremely useful build for a long time. I expect hawt things out of cripshot as well. 98.248.90.248 06:19, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

If you mean its gonna be nerfed next update then yeah. i do too. --71.193.48.146 09:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think some of you have the wrong idea about how classes in this game work. 1.) Tons of direct damage are not the only means of making a class or build viable. Sometimes there is more of a purpose than just going "pew pew". Mesmers didn't used to go "pew pew" but a good mesmer gets your team kills not by blowing up a target, but by controlling various enemies abilities to use their skills effectively. Power Blocking a water ele can allow your frontline to do their job, landing a Diversion at the right time can stop a monk from saving a low or over extended target. Rangers work in a similar fashion through interupts and condition spread. 2.) If you think condition spread isn't important, doesn't land kills or assist in killing, you obviously don't understand what "pressure is" and you obviously haven't played monk. Using condition spread to pressure makes monks waste energy removing those conditions or panic because everyone is getting low...if done correctly, it can be very effective. But again, this is the issue, this game has deteriorated to the point where tactics, team work and effectiveness no longer exist in the mind of the average player. To be good at this game these days just means making big yellow numbers appear on the screen.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 19:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

RIP touch rangers
in addition to the nerfs on bow rangers, touch rangers have also become obsolete. No more touching for you. :) guess we'll have to use pet attacks now. Yu5cef 04:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm so happy that touchers took a hit. I hate rangers. I think they are overpowered, especially when it came to their touching. I think it is about time. -Jackson
 * Touch Rangers fell out of the Meta a long time ago. The changes to life stealing weren't directed toward them. *shrug* Maybe we'll still see some touchway in PVE :D -Ninjatek 05:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess this update breaks UW Touch Ranger build too... by by Smite Crawlers. Wonder why they handle a PvP problem with nerfing skills in PvE. Damn idiots. - Gabe

I have to agree with the powershot nerf. The skill is not even worth using anymore, which is crippling to a presearing ranger. I just did a run with a level 12 pre-searing ranger. Bow damage of 10-15 +20%, 8 out of 10 times, my normal shot does more damage than a powershot (which does 37 points at my current level). This is not a powershot at all. It is a completely useless, and horribly expensive mana-wise, skill. Anet..you wanna nerf GvG/PvP stuff fine, but quit nerfing PvE. Between my wife, my daughter, and myself, we have spent more than 500 bucks on your game over the last year. We don't do much in the way of PvP and are thoroughly getting tired of having builds that we spend hours perfecting, getting destroyed by pointless PvE skill nerfs. I'll live with killing my Ebon Dust Ranger, etc. But reducing primary class skills to the point of uselessness has made the game unbearable in many ways. I guess it's a good thing DDO went free, gives me something different to play with. ~A loyal (until recently) GW player and supporter
 * I am sorry to hear of your disillusionment. My wife (who is primarily a ranger) and I have played this game really hard as well (and wish we could get our daughters interested).  There is so much to enjoy and we have only in the past few months begun experimenting with other classes.  Ritualists, Necromancers, Assassins and even Monks can do so many different and amazing things that make our original ranger-warrior duo seem almost quaint.  My guess is that that is why these changes do not dismay us as much, because we find the game to offer immense variety and no one change will affect our overall enjoyment.  But I can understand that if you are wholly invested in one character or a very few builds that you had perfected and relied on, how a change to a certain vital skill could devastate you. I'm not on Anet's payroll or any such thing, but I hope you continue to give the game a chance, because it can be rewarding in so many ways, or at least we have found it so.  I find I appreciate in the game the many fine qualities that my wife has in real life as well.  So don't get me wrong, we take the game very seriously (our ranger and warrior are both at Leather-Bound Books and bearing down on GWAMM), but the game is not just about a certain skillset, if you know what I mean. Sjhshh 20:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with plenty of the things you've said, but the people who suggest, want and then complain about these changes aren't interested in variety. Things like R-Spike pop up because they're easy and effective. To the majority of people who play primarily play PvP it is just a set of skills. The weakening of turret Rangers doesn't really change much, if anything, besides the one build it was used to spike with - but the people playing it are the type of people that won't be appeased until another cheap spike build is made and posted to PvX. :) You may as well go back to enjoying your game now, since you're not going to get the people here to enjoy it. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  21:29, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

So
Ranged spike is beaten back a bit, along with MoI and IoP, thats great and all, but why kill my poor EDA volley ranger, guess it was too powerful to last. Tidas 01:10, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I really didn't think it was overpowered that much. Thrain[[File:User_Thrain_Sig.png]] contribs 01:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It was. -Jackson
 * Tbh when one character can press tap repeatedly and keep all the frontlines and/or midlines of the other team blinded, and repeatedly blind them making condi removal useless, you know there's something wrong. (Although, it makes me wonder why you don't have any enchantment removal.) Not only will the removal of ranged damages make the user become more at risk, it also decreases the speed they can spread blind, and makes protting and taking it off loleasy. Also, no scythe devishes will want to inflict blind. [[Image:User_Ryuu_R.jpg|19px]] Ryuu  - talk  01:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, no scythe devishes will want to inflict blind.lol seriously bad lol.--67.224.170.227 01:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Why EDA isn't pve/pvp split? Really, how many times have you seen an EDA volley ranger in PvE? Was EDA that overpowered in pve?--SharkinuUser Sharkinu sig.png 06:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No. It was probably perceived to be not common enough to warrant a split. If you can get enough people that disagree with that (like Tidas who started this section) they may split it. They did something similar with Order of Undeath when they attempted to change that. The change was less popular than the original function and they changed it back because of complaints. I'm not promising anything will happen, but it's worth a shot if it was really a build you used often. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  21:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Wording on life steal mitigating skills
"Take life steal" sounds odd to me. "Have life stolen" sounds more natural. Reversal of Fortune is missing an "or", as well. Manifold  01:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just going to say that. I don't feel like reporting all the Skill Text issues though... Than 01:16, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "lose health" imo. --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 01:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC) 01:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "We get life steal!!"
 * "Life Sheath turn on!"
 * "Hahahaha, how are you gentlemen."
 * "All your life are belong to us." Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I am wondering, if Life Sheath or RoF blocks Vamp Gaze, does the necro still gain life?  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  10:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It says "instead", so I would guess it would prevent the lifesteal ever taking place. I'm not sure though. I am glad that life-stealing got some counters, though I think this makes LS just a little too powerful, compared with RC, for example. Widowmaker 15:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I just checked it. Life Sheath, RoF, and Shielding Hands prevent the necro from gaining life.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  18:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I like how....
Rspike was nerfed, and R/A's weren't touched, at all. That's... Pretty disappointing. Ryuu - talk  01:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * LR nerf makes them much more susceptible to spikes. 98.248.90.248 01:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Shattering assault still exists. Also, on a note of curiosity; what happens when you use LS or RoF on a target and someone hits them with a vamp weapon? Does the RoF/LS trigger on the vamp, or the weapon damage? ._. [[Image:User_Ryuu_R.jpg|19px]] Ryuu  - talk  01:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Vampiric weapons are no longer life steal. They're "life drain." So it won't trigger anything. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 01:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * O ic what they did thar [[Image:User_Ryuu_R.jpg|19px]] Ryuu  - talk  01:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * lol Shattering Assaultlol--67.224.170.227 01:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I waited 2 months for this?
Was this a serious update? I love how SA Rangers weren't even touched. Fail  dark  chaos   01:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Section above tbh. [[Image:User_Ryuu_R.jpg|19px]] Ryuu  - talk  01:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Section above above that one. And above the other one too.--67.224.170.227 01:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * actually its more like 3-4 months. Bimonthly updates takes some months to make. It was intended for February the bimonthly update.--67.224.170.227 01:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly, SA Rangers aren't that great in my opinion. They can be countered pretty easily, especially since it is the most common build for PUGs, and most people are pretty inexperienced at running it. &mdash; PonyX   [[Image:User_Pony_X_Sig.png‎‎‎|User talk:Pony Slaystation X]] 03:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Lighting Reflexes took a hit if thats means anything :\-- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|19x19px|User Talk: BobbyT]] 03:31, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Imo
"takes damage or life steal" is somewhat redundant when we all know that the only people using blood magic now is some N/ in RA with the starter build, it's apparently not meant to outdamage wanding. I love how champ point farmers with pvx templates is the reason for kicking this poor decaying horse skeleton. I'm sad and disappointed, someone hand me a butthurt report that I can fill in and send to Arenanet. -Cursed Angel  01:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Here you go man. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 01:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I always saw the mechanic of life stealing to be more of a self-healing thing than damage to begin with, or at least what it was intended to be for, the lol nerf encourages that sort of use more than "lets spike this target with life stealing" stuff. Although the recharge and whatnot is zzzzzz, if you're looking for damages as a necromancer, you should probably be looking elsewhere anyway. [[Image:User_Ryuu_R.jpg|19px]] Ryuu  - talk  01:29, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Life stealing has always been a way to bypass armor and damage reductions while providing some self-heal purely because of the attribute name. Totally pointless now that the most common prots can prevent life stealing... next, they'll be able to prevent life loss! Yay!... -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  01:48, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Merging
I know it's hard to merge PvP and PvE skils, but can we please do it. If it's a damage bonus, go for a middle number, or a semi-mid number at least. I'm tired of having to scroll through the Wiki list to find (PvP) and (PvE) versions of skills. I don't remember skills having to be divided back when Izzy was here... Than 01:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * List a more valuable reason besides having to move your mouse a few millimeters more in the wiki.--Wealedout 01:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Merging skills would be a bit more of a "whoa this MMO's got it's stuff down" kind of view point. Than 13:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

PvE/PvP Split
I think they forgot they could do that. Aevar talk  contribs 01:52, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, me too. This update didn't have any pve-only or pvp-only changes. Owait... ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * My point is they nerfed a lot of PvE shit when they didn't need to (not that they didn't split, which you seem to think I meant). Soldier's Fury, for example, should be split, along with all those bow attacks that now have an aftercast.  Also,  Quickshot shouldn't be nerfed in PvE or PvP, it's already trash.  Aevar talk   contribs 03:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, being an asshat for the sake of being an asshat isn't cool, Shard. Aevar talk  contribs 03:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * What ranger nerfs are we talking about here? Quick shot wasn't really nerfed. It's recharge makes it so that it's not affected by the aftercast. The aftercast ends right as you can use it again, giving you no delay between the spamming of quick shots. The aftercast only applies to the pvp versions of those skills anyways. 98.248.90.248 03:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The aftercast applies to all actions. And it's for both PvE and PvP. Aevar talk   contribs 03:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The pve aftercast only applies to hunters, melandru's, quick shot, and precision shot. None of these skills are decent in pve anyways, except maybe random nonsense with quick shot, which isn't affected anyways(as stated above). 98.248.90.248 03:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That's kinda my point, Mr. IP. Maybe not eloquently stated, but yeah. Aevar talk   contribs 04:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So they nerfed a handful of skills that no one uses in pve....i fail to see the need for a pve/pvp split. 98.248.90.248 04:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Obviously the fact that people are complaining about it means they were used in pve. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 04:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't see a reason to run any of those in pve, especially with the buffs to pene/sundering that were just put in. 98.248.90.248 04:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * They were actually nerfed. It went from 1 second attack and no aftercast to .75 second attack and .5 second aftercast. So it's .25 seconds slower total. And just because you don't see a reason to run them in pve doesn't mean other people don't. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 04:13, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * PvE versions have no aftercast bro. 98.248.90.248 04:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * k my bad but the other point stands. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 04:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hunter's gave bleeding on a 10 sec recharge in pve. Snaring doesn't matter in pve and the recharge was awful for pve with melandru's. Quick shot is unchanged in actual use. Precision was weaker than power shot as well as being far inferior to pene/sunder. Anyone who was using those skills isn't smart enough to comment on nerfs. 98.248.90.248 04:19, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * While I agree with "Anyone who was using those skills isn't smart," I do think (and hopefully ArenaNet does too) that all customers have an equal right to represent their views and concerns. Even if it's a waste of time and space. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 04:22, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nerfing trash skills is pretty lulzy though, dude. Aevar talk  contribs 04:31, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but the point is that extra work isn't necessary when it won't actually affect anyone. 98.248.90.248 04:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Illusion of Adequacy
Mesmers were too powerful in PvE so we had to not split the only decent degen spell in the game because of a whole lot of GvG qq? Yay Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC) --71.193.48.146 21:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC) <-- lol'd. --Briar 02:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * + Seriously if you're fixing a pvp skill fix it in pvp. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. →[ » Halogod User Halogod35 Sig.png  (talk)« ]← 02:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Passive 30+ dps for 10 energy is more than decent. -- Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 08:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * QQ my pve is fucked up what am i gonna do now /desperate - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 10:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Guess how much every other profession can do? 65.40.197.16 19:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I know it's so nice to masturbate in your guild hall while you make fun of PvErs and people who aren't in the #1/your guild but the issue is using/not using skill splits with a purpose rather than just whenever they feel like it. IoP isn't why PvE is broken it's one of the few things that make mesmers adequate in PvE in any case, and this was a nerf for PvP.  It wasn't nerfed because people got together and said "It's too good for killing mobs!!"  65.40.197.16 19:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * or what about not wasting Anet's time on pve changes but entirely focusing on improving pvp. FYI gw is a pvp game. if you want pve, find another game. seriously, why not just let pve rot and die and do something to make pvp.. i don't know.. competitive again? like 100k USD tournaments, skill and game mechanics balance.. oh and before you start arguing gw isn't a pvp game, check the youtube link on boro's user page. - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 20:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Does mesmer was a DPS class on PvE you say?
 * everything is dps in pve nowadays - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]]<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 11:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow look I totally called it, a PvPer. Why would I go look at a youtube video as evidence when it's probably done up by some other one-track-mind PvPer?  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * From the beautiful mind of wuhy "meme"
 * What? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The link is evidence because it has an interview with the head of GW stating that GW is a PvP game. Kthx. King Neoterikos 01:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * So in other words you are desperate and making an ambiguous statement mean what you want it to mean because you can't cope with factual truths? Why can't it mean "GW is a game with PvP" or "Despite being head of GW i'm completely out of my freaking mind"? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Only people that play PvP are allowed to have fun or be taken into consideration during skill updates. PvE is dead and should stay dead because PvP is more important and only high end PvP'ers really matter. Gonna go jerk off in obs mode now. Byebye"
 * "We built it from the ground up as a competitive game" isn't that ambiguous. PvE has become much more popular, but that doesn't change history. --67.240.83.137 02:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I just don't get why PvE is fun. I've done DoA, I've done UW. I've been on teams that have set near-record times (was on a doa SF-way a few weeks back that did 38 mins). How don't you guys get BORED with pve? I do a campaign or a misssion or an elite areas once or twice and i'm BORED with it because it's the same thing over and over again.--TahiriVeila 03:17, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Personally I do get bored with it. One of the few moments i agree with TV. Its one of the reasons i think WoW > GW. New content plz. <3 --71.193.48.146 03:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "We only hear what we want to and stretch every bit of what supports us as far as we can." Hey just keep ignoring those facts and applying a little bit of what some guy said to the entire game in its entirety.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 04:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Mike O'Brien isn't just "some guy." You can't argue over his exact quote, regardless of the current state of the entire game or its entirety. --67.240.83.137 05:01, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

And you can't argue certain facts even if God came down, proved he was god, peformed 1,000 miracles, slew Deggial and Satan and every harbinger of badness, and then tells you something contrary to those facts. If it was really a pvp competitive game in the way you wish it was with your fiery little competitive heart than why did MIKE O'BRIEN FLAWLESS GOD AMONG GAME DESIGNERS and his disciples make PvE? I'm really sorry you can't hog the playground to yourself. This entire issue is about PvPers being butthurt over a conversation that doesn't apply to them. This was about IoP in PvE so butt out for crying out loud. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 18:34, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * +1. This game doesnt belong to PvP'ers alone. --71.193.48.146 20:23, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Talk about not coping with the facts, but if it's that hard to understand the original concept of the game then I will let that go. By the way, I do agree that there is no reason to not split skills now that the choice was made to do so (not to mention how money, and thus pve, wins out at this point for anet). Though, IoP was a dumb buff and I don't see how it was/is that useful in pve as single target degen anyway. --67.240.83.137 20:46, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If (according to you and probably many others) IoP isn't useful to begin with then why throw it even further into oblivion? Go to the skill page and check out that little damage chart - it adds up as long as you keep it up.  Btw I understand, but trying to make a point by arguing about "original concepts" is rather annoying, ideas and concepts change.  This game has always been about both pve and pvp from day one regardless of what O'Brien said and PvPers are not entitled to anything special because of what O'Brien said.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There isn't any real reason to not split it, though 30 dps on a single target isn't particularly useful compared to other stuff you could run, so my point was that it isn't really worth complaining about separately from splitting skills or not in general. And PvP inherently relies heavily on balance, while PvE is for the most part unaffected by problem skills and changes to them, so naturally changes should be based around pvp (aside from pve specific issues, obviously). I don't know how much effort it takes to split a skill, but it is probably not worth it to do so for every skill if the expected impact is low. --67.240.83.137 23:19, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel like you could just use a 40/40 set to subvert the 2 second cast for the most part. The duration change really isn't that big of a problem because you can kill anything in less than 8 seconds anyway unless you're being silly, so... [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  14:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Power Shot in Pre searing
I don't believe anet considered the change for power shot regarding pre searing. It is one of 8 pre searing ranger skills and it is now nerfed into oblivion. 10 energy for a pre ranger is massive, and now it is only doing 40ish damage, which is less than a regular bow attack. Rangers should get another pre searing skill, or revert the change to power shot in pve. --173.72.56.208 02:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Your power shot is doing less than your regular bow attacks? You do realize that physical damage is randomized, right? Power shot on average always does more than regular arrow. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:15, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's see. I have a charrslaying bow which is 14%, 20% for being customized, and I usually get 100damage on a low lvl charr (7,8) and 80 at least on a mob about my level (17).  A whole 47 damage for using power shot now.  When you go to pre, you can talk.
 * lol so bad -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 02:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You realize power shot shoots the same arrow your regular attacks shoot, right? It's impossible for power shot's damage potential to be lower than your regular attacks. I think you need to read the effects that are on you. If you are doing half damage with a skill that adds +20 or more, you're probably being weakened. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I just tested it, and the damage is armor ignoring. Thrain[[File:User_Thrain_Sig.png]] contribs 02:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's no longer +damage, but a set amount of damage. — piper doesn't talk 02:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and its minimum damage is only 3 less than a regular attack's max damage. It's impossible for power shot to deal less than a regular attack. If you are still seeing this, it must be bugged. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:48, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Shard, it all depends on what armor level the foe has. If the foe had 60 ar, then yes, PS would deal more damage. However, none (to my knowledge) of the enemies in Pre have 60 ar or above. Thrain[[File:User_Thrain_Sig.png]] contribs 02:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It actually depends on both foe's armor level and the level difference between you and the foe. Armor-ignoring damage isn't affected by level difference however. So yeah, Power Shot is much worse in low-level areas now. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 03:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

same shit as Mighty Throw. no science needed. best used against high armored foes.--67.224.170.181 03:52, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Xinrae's Weapon
Was this excluded from including the "life steal" because it has the "damage reduction" clause and life stealing can not be reduced (which raises questions about Union), or was it excluded do to an oversight? I suppose the same would go for Reversal of Damage; was it an oversight or is it because life stealing can not be "reflected"? Also, if this was meant to hit Blood Spikes should you also widen it to include skills like Healing Hands, Healing Seed and Supportive Spirit and/or skills like Angelic Bond, Divine Intervention and Judge's Intervention? Bathory  talk  02:26, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * its anet. they do this in every update(advertisement: buy Guild Wars 2!). still waiting for them to change skills that one uses.--67.224.170.181 03:58, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's only meant to weaken blood spike, not remove it from the game. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 04:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I know. But it seems odd to me to favor certain skills that have the same function and place in a team. Weapon of Remedy and Xinrae's Weapon for instance. They're practically identical in usage so it strikes me as odd that it was implemented this way. Of course, there are difference between them so it may be intentional but as that was not mentioned anywhere I've read I am just making sure. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * My first thought was the same, how about other damage reflecting skills suck as Xinrae's weapon? They just missed some.

Out of curiosity
Have any of you actually played with the revised skills or is all this QQing just based on theory crafting? Given that all these changes were tested by the Test Krewe I would think that they can't actually be as bad as you are all making them out to be. If they are, then what's the purpose of the Test Krewe in the first place? -- Wyn  talk  02:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean tested like how the first build made players unable to log into the game was tested? Yeah. Also, they didn't even bother listening to us at all on any of the feedback suggestions during the previews. The soldier's fury nerf is one example. Not toning down B.Surge is another. All in all, it definitely felt like we were being ignored there. 209.89.252.164 02:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I tried it, yes it's bad, even a revert would be better than 2sec disable for needling shot especially in PvE. wtb split 174.59.121.144 03:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried the only skill that affected me, which was Needling shot in PvE. TBH, with the way I play, it doesnt really affect me much, and while I was QQ about the idea before it was put in, I am just meh-ing it now. Just hope they dont extend the recharge time. Lynx Raven Raide  [[image:User Lynx Raven Raide Logo.png|User:Lynx Raven Raide]] 03:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wyn, making any sense is not worth it. only the minority writes in the wiki. just a bunch of qq.--67.224.170.181 03:49, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow still crying over B.Surge...Some of the QQ is deliciously funny.--Wealedout 04:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Bsurge is a skill that should never have existed to begin with. Any QQ at all over it is completely understandable until the skill has been 25/90'd, because it is inherently imbalanced, always has been, and unless it is made unplayable, always will be. - Auron 09:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It it is funny.Although Mr/Ms IP bait did not write why exactly this "flare" makes him/her/it "cry some more". Post a new topic Mr/Ms IP about your QQ somewhere else besides here for a conversation.--Wealedout 12:58, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol @ needing to test. And lol @ the TK. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:48, 29 January 2010  (UTC)

So.. these skill changes.
Anyone else disappointing with the way GW is heading? Aro 03:29, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Uhh, these skill changes were needed and appreciated. 98.248.90.248 03:30, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * To answer your question, no one else is disappointed with reality, though I am sure someone or other would be disappointed with the way you believe GW is heading. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 04:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Next time nerf Warriors
Thanks ArenaNet for nerfing Rangers. Now next time you gotta nerf them Warriors or maybe you're too scared because that's 50% of your players? Yu5cef 04:02, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Warriors are fairly balanced. Btw, in case you've never obsed gvg or known the meta, RtL was a spike skill used on warriors for a while, and had a chance to return now that dual para dual ranger is gone. Gz on strong random percentages too. 98.248.90.248 04:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * warriors fail in every random arenas, its fing funny killing them in fa, jq, ra, did i forgot a format?--67.224.170.181 04:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You forgot AB, and maybe CA. Warriors are weak by themselves (too easily countered) but with good support they are very deadly. They are probably one of the most well balanced classes atm. 209.89.252.164 04:13, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Somewhat confused how warriors fail in ra. 98.248.90.248 04:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * warriors pwn ra, they just suck if you're terrible at the game.134.109.89.1 04:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ^My point exactly. 98.248.90.248 04:28, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * +1 as warrior being a balanced profession. I really want to see what the revamped Tactics and Hammer Mastery will bring but please God, don't play with Strength, best example. Don't trade the damage they have for more conditions. We have condition skills and if warriors would want to spread even more...go rangers! <font color="#a12a18">Markus Clouser  [[Image:User_Markus_Clouser_signature_img.jpg|19px]] 13:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * the denial is rampant.--67.224.170.181 19:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * We are all very sorry that you can't play a warrior. 206.110.20.2 21:31, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

More ranger nerfs?!!
If anet hates rangers so much why not just remove them from gw would save a lot of time :/ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.118.254.55 (talk).
 * Which is funny, Rangers are one of the classes better off overall. Cry about nothing. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

consdering that almost every update rangers havebeen nerfed heavily and more then any other class yea i think i will  keep crying69.118.254.55 04:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Everyone's favorite profession has always been the "most heavily nerfed", no matter what your favorite is. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  05:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Cry about nothing." Pfft.  Thanks for trolling.  Come back when you have something intelligent to contribute to the discussion.  Can you do that for us?  You must not have been playing the game at this time last year, or maybe even last month - a lot has changed for Rangers, and I challenge to outweight the bad with the good.  Welcome to Guild Wars, sport.  I hope you saved your receipt. -Ninjatek 06:06, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * -pwned. I really hate seeing rangers get nerfed so bad. Stringing escape/lightning/escape/natty/repeat was good defenses, and allowed any charged skill that could interrupt that cycle slash land a big hit a 50/50 chance to risk instead of 75. I'm sure that touchers though can still run zhaste/dodge with 16 expertise dispite there being a 45sec on lightning flex now. I will miss L flex... :( What are rangers supposed to do again anet? At least I can still string interrupts r/me.... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.145.195.91 (talk).
 * Nothing intelligent to contribute? Oh no, they nerfed R-Spike. They buffed condition spreading, which Rangers were already extremely good at. There's really nothing to whine about and they're still on of the stronger classes. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Assassin's Weren't Even Touched...
Sins weren't touched? Are you kidding me? Running (continuous) 70 dps + spikes of 100 dps + covered deep wound. Been running it for months now. As the only damage dealer (3 Mo on my team), I can churn out enough hurt to run the enemy monk out of energy. Yay for glaring balance issues being completely ignored! WHOO!!! Anyway, I'll be returning to face-slicing now. --72.189.31.85 05:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool story bro. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 05:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I bet he then found $5. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  05:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You see, the problem is, while assassins can deal large damage, they were being inordinately BEAT DOWN (woo, emphasis is OVER 9000) by the things that were nerfed. (Note that "beat down" here can also mean majorly outhealed.) | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 05:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

A thought...
Ive been reading through the updates and while i honestly dont care one way or the other about the ranger damage nerfs and Im just as pissed off as anyone else about the fact that R/A's have NOT been nerfed, It does seem to me that ANet has handicap'd rangers damage wise. And before you say "Rangers were meant to be utility" consider this. I thought the premise of guild wars was that any profesion would be able to fill any role. Perhaps a E/Mo wouldnt be as powerful a healer as a Mo/E but it could still get the job done. As it stands now rangers, even with the most powerful bow attack skills possible all stringed up together, have a difficult time of killing NPC's in JQ. Which is.... Pitiful... to say the very least. Last time i went there on a ranger with Lacerate Brambles Toxicity and EoE with poison tip sig and barbed arrows and did more damage than with a bow attack bar specifically designed for capping quarries. I know all I'm going to get out of this is "Blah blah rangers have condition spreading and inturupts blah blah" But... is that really such a good thing? to have ONE viable build accross an entire proffesion? btw when i say one viable build it means i can name off 7 out of 8 skills on your bar if your doing any sort of serious ranger build that isnt some kind of gimmick like shitters assault rangers. Sure theyre a great toolbox class with some sturdy inturupts and easy and maintainable condition spreading and all but its really not cool to have every ranger in the entire game using practically the exact same build. --Briar 06:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC) You are talking about PvP, I do hope. - Infinite - talk 15:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I don't pvp, so I may not know what I'm talking about, but wasn't the reduction to ranger damage done because every ranger in pvp using a bow was running some sort of spike build that would decimate the opponent instantly? And if R/A's weren't touched, then obviously there is more than one type of ranger build that is still viable besides conditions and interupts. Unfortunately, everyone has their "favorite" build, and all ArenaNet can do is try to address the most problematic issues, which in this case seemed to be the ranger spike. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  06:49, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay apparently you missed just about everything i said. So ill recover the main point, they have viable build outside gimmicks like R/A. And if you roll several copies of any proffesion's most powerful damage output build then it becomes overpowered. One glass arrow ranger was strong. A decent damage dealer. if 1 = decent then its quite obvious that 3 = more than decent. Why do people not get this? --71.193.48.146 08:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Because "decent" is somehow a term that can be made less or more? Or perhaps because they don't see that 3 > 1. Either way, surely their lack of agreement with you is due to utter stupidity on their part compared with you. What gets me is your link to Second Profession. Seriously, I had never considered anything like it when I spoke of R/As and there utility or not. I had always thought, "R/A is a single profession, as is everything else in the game." You have enlightened me, and you have managed at the same time to put a lot of good faith in your fellow man, as well as compliment Wyn in a way that treats her like a human being, and not just someone whose only choices are sucking up to you or "missing everything". Your text may be binary, sir, but your heart is gold. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 12:52, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The way I see it, the need for these changes is not so much because ArenaNet fails at creating good skills, but players fail at playing with anything other than the most powerful thing on the market. Now if everyone who plays pvp would simply agree to running teams of mixed professions, not running the most powerful combination of skills, then we wouldn't have these problems. However, as has been pointed out somewhere... teams are going to take what is going to most easily assure them of a win. This is what I hate most about pvp play, it's all about winning, not about sportsmanship or skilled gameplay. It's the players who create the meta, it's the players who exploit skills in ways they were not intended by ArenaNet (R/A's for example, or back in the day the thumpers, or any of the other strange combinations of professions/weapons ~ warriors and assassins with scythes etc) that create the need to "rebalance" the skillset. Then everyone comes here and QQs that their favorite skill has been killed, or their most hated skill has been left untouched and fling accusations of incompetence at ArenaNet employees. I just don't get it.... -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  14:05, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that it is saddening that players will so readily rape a build that is OBVIOUSLY a gimmick. And this is why ive stated on so many pages that if the dev team would grow some balls and just make expertise only trigger on bow attacks instead of attack skills then there wouldnt be such a problem in the first place with R/X gimmicks. But neither of those were what this post was about. This was about killing the ranger as a class with any decent damage output and ANet constantly nerfing anything that gives a ranger any decent DPS. There is next to nothing that will allow a ranger to put even mild pressure on the enemy team and if there is and i just havent taken it into account, im sure someone will, post said build on PvX and it will promplty be nerfed. While I do not in any way shape or form approve of gimmick builds in PvP it seems that if you dont want to use the standard bar as a ranger (apply poison,cripshot,mend,etcetcetc) then you have no other choice. Gimmicks are bad. But its just as bad that if you wanna play a ranger with any shred of dignity or sportsmanship you HAVE to use a pre-set-up build because theres just no alternative. as it is im working on a (mediocre at best) inturupt turret that will hopefully be some fun to play around with. but i know that as soon as i find a way to have some fun on a ranger its going to be nerfed because ANet apparently hates Bows. Not so much rangers, just bows. or at least bows with a capacity to do damage. --Briar 15:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Perhaps a E/Mo wouldnt be as powerful a healer as a Mo/E but it could still get the job done."
 * Why would you even need monks in PvE? discordway seiz hi. --Briar 15:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Briar, I wasn't looking for your specific personal suggestion.. those go on your Feedback:User/Briar/Whateveryouthink page, I was simply making an editorial comment about the state of the game. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  16:58, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * @Wyn, yeah, they were trying to reduce the power of the midline in this update and shift it more back to the frontline. To this end, there is some degree of success with the update. Aevar talk   contribs 17:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How does a nerf to spike skills hurt capping in JQ? --67.240.83.137 17:30, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

They made rits even WORSE in pvp now..
omg lolwut... meh -195.181.32.133 07:07, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Rits are fine. We really need to stop asking for updates. Maybe thats what they were trying for with this sillyness. Justice 07:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Uhm
Anyone who thinks Rangers are about damage and anyone who thinks this update invalidated them should probably be shot in the head. Thanks for your attention. darkmorphon396 07:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * + agreed. that skill change made rangers balanced, they are not meant to be dmg-bots, they are meant to be midline. my RA build wasnt touched, hail magebane ! 79.180.32.95 15:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, to be fair, the thing this update was to fix was that it was getting so that they were about damage. But yeah. Not their primary role (especially not when overpowered), hence the fix. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 16:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

SF...
...and it's sustainability skills were not balanced either. (deadly paradox/glyph of lesser energy). So... wintersday items SF farm here we come! Seriously, this balance is utterly needed now. --  Pixy | Talk 08:52, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ye its not strong enuf to ghard for bad plaiers darkmorphon396 08:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Bawwwww sf --71.193.48.146 09:01, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This build was never intended to deal with SF Feedback:Skill update previews. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  09:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * i now. darkmorphon396 09:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I dont care if this update wasnt supposed to be the SF nerf, it was still promised, and untill it is nerfed all other updates count for nothing. this update changed nothing in game, it will still be the game gameplay, uyou will go directly from PvP to ToA, and no where else, no one will do missons, no one will do quests. because untill SF is nerfed, there is no other way to make money, because the only things that are worth over 50k are dropped from underworld chest. PvP will be the same either way, you will have sync teams in RA with 30win streaks, guild teams in HA farming each other, and everyone else will be in guildhall, waiting for there 1 time a week GvG. This has been a "State of the Game Update", tune in next update for more non-nerfing of SF because PvE is dead and no one cares.(Rant Complete) The Only Warrior 09:47, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * PvE isnt dead because of SF. PvE is dead because theres no new content. Theres nothing new for anyone to do. So they spend their time farming. Also BAAAWWWWW SF! Im gonna laugh my ass off when they finally do nerf shadow form and no one can complete the underworld anymore. --Briar 09:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ lol? <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  09:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's okay, 000, Briar has never used a Paragon before. He doesn't know that party wide invincibility allows much more freedom in PvE builds than single target invincibility does. - Auron 10:02, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Love you too sweetheart. <3 --Briar 10:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I will laugh my ass off when players who know what they are doing can still complete UW in less than 2 hours and (former) SF spammers cannot :P  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  10:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * oh you mean players like shard? ;) --71.193.48.146 10:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Wyn, you are right in referring to the fact that this update was intended for a minor rebalance of pvp stuff, but i have to disagree with the implementation. If one checks the list of skill balances, there are a lot of pve+pvp balances, and 2 pve only balances. This would mean that any sensible testing krewe would not only test these out in pvp environments, but also in pve environments, as they have been impacted. Just check about the dude above complaining about power shot in pre which has been impacted (i hope this was checked in pre by the test krewe). My reasoning here is that IF the balance was intended for automated tournaments, then only pvp skills would have been touched. Well there's also the fact that SF was scheduled for rebalance before, but im not complaining, since (1) i tend to perma here and there and (2) i dont keep my schedules either (unless vodka is involved) :-) --  Pixy | Talk 19:13, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Costumes
I believe also the bug with the costumes not showing up on the login screen when you first login has been fixed. Mine now show up all the time (I think/so far).<font color="Black"> --  <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 09:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Do they show up the proper color? -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  09:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well mine showed up black when I logged in even though my costume is dyed red, so no. However I am not sure if it was just this one time or not. I doubt it though.<font color="Black"> -- [[Image:User_Lacky_Blue_Paw_Sig.png|15px|link=User_talk:Lacky|My Talk]] <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 10:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Soldier's Fury and Aggressive Refrain
I'll try not to include Personal Attacks into this rant but seriously: Why did you make it apply a condition instead of simply lowering the armor with 20? It would be an irremovable effect, but would not cover every condition on you. I know that it sounds stupid to get angered on fucking up pve even more but still its retarded that every IAS makes blindness on you covered, so unless you are running someone with Flesh Wound or Restore Condition, you dont have the chance of having conditions removed from you. Just GG arenanet. How The hell did you think it will not affect pve? Seriously fail. --Boro 14:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Mending Touch, Mend Body and Soul, Antidote Signet, Assassin's Remedy, Life Sheath (on another party member), Foul Feast on another party member, Dismiss Condition, (only has a 3 second recharge so you're out for 4 seconds). Some of them have prerequisites, but they're all viable condition removal skills.
 * Personally, I'm just annoyed that SF is now little better than AR. The advantage of CA over a flat penalty is that the CA can be removed. Also the CA is temporary, whereas a penalty would have to be linked to the effect. Widowmaker 15:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Also the CA is temporary"


 * Not really. CA will reapply everytime a shout ends on you. Which means, that if you're running SF with a normal amount of shouts (for a paragon), then you'll probably have CA permanently. If you run with heroes, this means that your healer will spend TONS of its energy trying to constantly remove the condition from you. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:52, 29 January 2010  (UTC)
 * Maybe? sure this skill will only remove the CA, but then your heros don't waste the energy on removing it themselfs--65.94.112.207 17:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Still too bad. They just threw this skill out of the trash bin. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 18:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Motivation is bad. they really fucked this up just to say Rhonin Soren 11:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You need 0 Motivation to use it with Soldier's Fury the way it was described. And, if you have 8 people - Motivation isn't terrible. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Codex
Pretty pleased with the Codex changes tbh, not sure it'll be enough to get people in there, but it's definately an improvement imo. Widowmaker 15:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The updates to the codex are the only thing I can agree with 100% in this update. So, in spirit of giving credit where it's due, thank you.70.57.153.57 16:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE REREAD THE PURPOSE OF THIS UPDATE
This update was designed SOLELY as a low-scale, quick fix to the most pressing problems FACING THE GVG COMMUNITY in order to balance things out before the mAT. PLEASE STOP BITCHING BECAUSE HA/PVE/WHATEVERBULLSHITAREAYOUPLAYTHATISN'TGVG DIDN'T GET FIXED, THAT UPDATE IS COMING IN FEBRUARY AND REGINA'S BEEN TELLING US THAT FOR A MONTH NOW.--TahiriVeila 16:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I herd u leik capitals.-- Nei l2250 User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 16:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * They're cruise control for cool :< --TahiriVeila 16:42, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No. They're not. darkmorphon396 17:06, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nerfing PvE skills addresses problems in the GvG "community"... how, exactly? It saved them the time to split, but does anyone actually expect a fix (read: split) to be forthcoming? 207.30.169.168 21:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

OMG IM SO ANGRY AND STUFF PLEASE READ MY FUCKING RANT -<font color="Black">Cursed Angel  <font face="Arial" size="1">17:16, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Get back in your cage, Cursed. I'm not done with your buttocks. Thanks! NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 17:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Enough guys. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  17:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nuke is shush an SM queen. Dark Morphon 17:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * stfu guys.--67.224.170.181 19:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * WHY should we STFU? RANDOM caps are SO FUN that I CAN HARDLY CONTAIN MY GLEE!! 75.61.32.166

People should really stop trying to make announcements, good or bad, by adding a new section to a talk page. Seriously, a new section header doesn't add more weight to what a person has to say than any other section header. And using CAPS may sometimes add weight but it's usually negative for the fact that one used caps. :/ | <font color="Red">72  (UTC) 19:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * New sections and caps get people's attention.--TahiriVeila 20:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, people should really stop this
<font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:03, 29 January 2010  (UTC)
 * Don't make me activate the electric collar, Jesus. Hear that? That's how Cursed screams after meeting my leathery whip. Thanks! NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 20:16, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to say this is almost as funny as watching a mAT update and its aftermath ;) Lynx Raven Raide  [[image:User Lynx Raven Raide Logo.png|User:Lynx Raven Raide]] 20:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Recuperation
I have this Binding Ritual in my healer rit build for Random Arena. I get to plant it 3-5 times per battle with high energy weapon set. But I really need to study the circunstances whether its convenient or not to spend 25 energy for it. All spirits in PvP die fast when attacked. Now if its benefit is lowered... Im not sure if its still going to be worth taking it. A healer rit needs at least 2 spirits... and considering the restoration line has very few... I humbly ask to be returned to its original funtionality. ArenaNet Live Team tries to solve GvG but hurts RA... then how am I ever going to get to play HA... Most teams ask Gladiator r3... Im still not there :S. Yoshida Keiji 09:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC) lol'd - Wuhy  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 17:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "I humbly ask to be returned to its original funtionality. ArenaNet Live Team tries to solve GvG but hurts RA... then how am I ever going to get to play HA... Most teams ask Gladiator r3... Im still not there :S."
 * ^ superlol'd --TahiriVeila 20:37, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Why the LOLs Yoshida Keiji 01:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You're probably not there because Recuperation is not the spirit you want to be taking in Ranger Arenas - where you are practically guaranteed to be interrupted. 25 Energy hurts when you get nothing for it. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Might have something to do with the playing a rit healer or thinking that glad rank matters at all in tombs. Lol, take your pick.--TahiriVeila 05:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Recuperation has helped my teams get Flawless versus hexway teams and keep row wins. If you know where to plant spirits they are not rupted. And yes healer rit aint best for RA. But for someone who started GWs with Nightfall and with a para. Being rit my second char, so far its best I have. Im in a PvE alliance, I can only pug for Heroes Ascent. I wish I knew this game when it was first released. And hope no one else whines more here.Yoshida Keiji 14:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * People shouldn't have whined in the first place. Teams are just playing LoD smites again, so the meta moved on... <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:12, 31 January 2010  (UTC)

Killjoys
12:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC) You goddamn killjoys Anet. Goddamn killjoys. Whats the point in nerfing PvE skills at this point? When the last expansion has already been out for ages? Lightning Reflexes, 45 secs? Needling Shot? Glass Arrows? I stopped playing a little while ago and this ain't gonna make me come back and buy costumes. /rage Tong2 12:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Errr....the only 1 out of the 3 you mentioned which was a PvE change, was needling shot and no Ranger worth being called a Ranger uses that skill anyway in PvE. -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 12:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How dare you say that. I don't think YOU have any right to tell me what constitutes a ranger. But I just re-checked the updates page and you are right, that at least is some relief, thanks for the clarification. Tong2 12:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL no worries. You are also more than welcome to run needling shot on a PvE Ranger build if you wish, but honestly as a person who has played over 8000 hours on his ranger, their are just much better options for a ranger to run. -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 13:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, paired with an elementalist's Conjure spell, Expert Dexterity, and Expert Focus, NS is quite capable of hitting over 60dps once the target gets under the halfway mark where NS can be spammed. So for damage-oriented rangers such as myself, it's quite handy - even with the new 2 sec shutdown on other attack skills. But really, what other attack skills are you going to be using while spamming NS? --Nathe 18:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

this is why we have power creep
because everybody QQs when anybody mentions the word 'nerf' That Dude On The Television 17:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Must I remind you why power creep is bad? (hint: it does not give you more viable skills to choose from)  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  22:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, check the most recent meta. There's a powercreep because Anet doesn't obs and the TK defends things like the Quick Shot nerf (that's from Guru, but still...wtf?). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:38, 30 January 2010  (UTC)
 * Wait, TK pushed a quick shot nerf? I can personally guarantee you that skill has not once been brought on a bar to gvg above the lever of r400 in the last 2 years. lulz--TahiriVeila 05:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've seen it top 100 before,Don't remember when (so this coul be completely irrelevant).Anyway Quick shot had absolutely no problems and I hate the Cripshotbuff (ironically I love Cripshot) because it just cheer powercreep.I liked the update overall.Yes the update was a bit rough and not well polished,yes there were literally infinite better solutions but the thing is : The update gets the job done.It was supposed to fix some of the most urging problems and it did.Shure there are still tons but I'm just glad they decided to do something about it wether it was the right way or not. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 13:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Btw, if we have all this testing now with over 9,000 TK members, then how the hell did Precision Shot's bug slip through? <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:19, 31 January 2010  (UTC)
 * Because anet decided the TK could balance and they could test.Afterall testing is not that ... ow crap Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 17:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * And apparently the quick shot bug got through too. How would that not have been obvious? <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:37, 31 January 2010  (UTC)
 * What makes you so sure that was a skill they were asked to test?-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 21:19, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What's the purpose of having the TK if they were not asked to test the skill? I only see two options; either they held back to exploit they bug (very likely, this is a reoccurring problem with player based testing - i.e. open alpha/beta testing, etc.) or people have no understanding of what QA is and how to go about properly testing (also very likely, as I never have witnessed any QA department/person that was competent). - Drakora 21:35, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind they're just players like the rest of us. The addition of the TK isn't going to save this game anymore than a two extra lifeboats would have helped the Titanic.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 21:43, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Precision Shot
Unblockably removing stances every six seconds in an update which addressed the question, "Stances are be strong mechanics, yo," is unthinkable. If it was intentional, they would have made a note about it, or are really sick bastards. There's not really a good reason to think the latter... But more importantly, our job isn't so much to speculate on "why" as to just document the game. Talk pages are for conjecture. | <font color="Red">72  (UTC) 04:20, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, your edit was the most descriptive out of any in the recent revert war. It's very obviously a bug. I dunno what the hell got into people reverting it anyway. - Auron 04:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Quick Shot bug
I added a note about the bug. At least, I hope it's a bug. Otherwise, Anet really hates that skill. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:09, 31 January 2010  (UTC)
 * I don't see how it could be anything but a bug. Quickshot was nearly useless before this update. I don't see any reason why they'd make it WORSE --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:TahiriVeila (talk).
 * How did the test krewe miss this? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I asked the same question to a TK friend of mine. Apparently, the TK doesn't actually test anything. They just discuss the ideas on some borked forum.....so.... <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">01:51, 1 February 2010  (UTC)
 * How uselessly appropriate for ArenaNet. That's not much different from what us losers around here do. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  05:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

There's going to be an update later today to fix the Quick Shot and Precision Shot bugs. See User:Regina Buenaobra/Journal. --Silver Edge 21:03, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Between the community and the people in charge this game is driving me insane. Go Round Table Idea Review Krewe durr! Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Heroes in Zaishen Arenas
Any word on when they'll be reintroduced, if at all? A little bit of that transparency would be nice right now. Thank you. <font face="Monotype Corsiva" color="black">Sardaukar  21:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * See Feedback:Bug reports/Miscellaneous bugs. --Silver Edge 10:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link! :D <font face="Monotype Corsiva" color="black">Sardaukar  [[Image:User_Sardaukar_sig.png]] 22:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)