Talk:Dwarven Battle Stance

Eternal "Dwarven Battle Stance"
Been trying to create a way to have a DBS that lasts 'forever' in the sense that you never have it down. For PvP, the only skill to renew it that I can think of is "On Your Knees!", which I was intending of using anyway. The question is how to get the target on the ground in the first place. The only non-elite hammer attacks that do this are either too conditional or cause you to use all your adrenaline, which is necessary for the shout. I've been forced, so far, to either lineback with Counter Blow, hope that my target is blocking with Irresistible Blow, Grapple like a n00b or use a non-War skill. Very perplexing... Tokorumble 20:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Renewing Smash? PowerGamer 02:33, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Dwarven Stability says hi. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 02:52, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He said, "For PVP". PowerGamer 23:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Permanent DBS is useless in PVP, because without a cancel stance that functions as an IMS you'll be out-kited easily.72.81.107.80 23:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Try Armor of Mist or Flame Djinn's Haste to avoid being kited. Add a conjure weapon spell for extra damage.71.208.205.220 02:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, energy. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png R I D DLE 03:13, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How about serpent's quickness? I think I did the math right, and it would only be down for around 2 seconds after it ended. But that's only like one hammer attack. 99.189.121.185 20:57, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Weapon-Switching?
Has anyone tested to see what happens if you switch to an axe/sword/whatever? I don't have the skill, but since the buff, I might go cap it...Windtalker 23:56, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
 * The skill can be divided in two parts, the 33% IAS and the interrupting effect. If you weapon swap to something else than a hammer, you will keep attacking 33% faster, but you won't be interrupting with your hits anymore. --Dirigible 00:06, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Maybe it's about time for a fix.
 * What's broken, though? The skill is pretty clear with what it does.  If definately gives you 33% IAS, and it definately causes your hammer attacks to interrupt.  The skill is worded correctly, and actually makes sense.  The only odd part is that you have to have hammer equipped initially to get the IAS, which is a little vague.  Honestly, if they just forced everything to be "hammer based" (while still being a strength skill), it would clear the issue up nicely.  They could say "while wielding a hammer" (such as with disarm for strength/swords).  --Mystisteel 20:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Hulking Stone Elementals
They appear to be able to use this skill, but do not have a hammer equipped because they do not interrupt anything. I've been farming them for an hour or so using a standard Elementalist/Mesmer earth farming build. Unienaule 17:20, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Same happenz to me. Except that I'm farming with Me/E Pyromancer :P

Assassin Skill: Mirrored Stance
When an enemy uses Mirrored Stance Dwarven Battle Stance still works with daggers and, you're basically 0wned because when an Assassin's Attack Speed goes off with Dwarven Battle Stance...you're screwed. Yes?--Rella 19:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, in all likelihood a warrior would annihilate the assassin because the assassin would have his chain interrupted several times over. The sin would be able to get the Lead Attack off (MAYBE), but unless he gets very lucky or times it just perfectly, wouldn't have time to follow up with other attacks. A lucky Wild Strike would help, but a warrior is not completely at the mercy of low armor gankers. Plus, upon having his stance ended, the warrior would most likely use his secondary means of attacks, by which I mean knockdowns. Sins don't have enough armor or health to go toe to toe with a warrior without proper precautions. FleshAndFaith

What he was trying to say,if a warrior uses this hes noob so yes hell get owned ;) Lilondra 19:46, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * if a sin uses mirror stance, hes noob too... so they have equal chance 76.26.189.65 04:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * How did you come to the conclusion that if someone uses this skill, they're a noob? This is a very potent offensive and defensive skill. It can shut down support casters and incoming attackers for 10 seconds, after which time you'll have adrenaline built for heavy hammer dmg and knockdowns. If a sin uses Mirrored Stance, they would end it instantly with the first skill they throw (which will most likely be interrupted anyways)FleshAndFaith 19:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * FleshAndFaith is correct. This skill is an awsome shudown . I ran into assassins in RA & AB while testing my build with it & they couldn't land a hit. It's an awsome elite for a hammer build since you force everything attacking or defending from you to run unless they want to die. It can be kept up nearly constantly with renewing smash.-Sigon
 * It might be but no real decent build can be made out of it.The ints are pretty random imo.You know it doesn't give the golden moment of Dchopping both a monk's guardian and WoH in a row :) Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * BB sin with Mirrored Stance. :] Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 18:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean, "no real decent build can be made out of it". You can activate this skill, wail on any target you want to stop, all the while building up adrenaline, then throw some heavy attack skills in someone's face. Take any hammer build and add this skill, and thats a decent build ;) FleshAndFaith 03:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

anomaly
This skill has the hammer icon with a red slash in the top left corner of the skill when you don't have a hammer equipped, similar to hammer skills. I don't recall when it was added, but it has been that way for a long time. Would that be enough for the anomaly to be removed or reworded as a note? Tedium 03:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * um, that is exactly like the anomaly note says. Justing6 00:47, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Overlooked.
This skill is overlooked by most warriors. I see each warrior weapon revolves around 1-2 builds with no variation at all. Swords have their farm builds using sword only blocking skills & the likes. I have yet to meet an axe warrior Not using Eviscerate & shock axe build. & hammers usualy have builds made with devastating hammer or Magehunter's Smash. I got kicked out of a group becouse the guy pinged me a devastating hammer build which i refused to equip, i don't mind, a guy who thinks his builds are the Thing ain't worth it anyway. That being said this skill offers a huge shutdown. I was able to interrupt bosses which is not easy considering their halved casting time. With a zealous hammer & Renewing Smash you can have it almost constantly or just use high cost hammer attacks while it recharges. I've been running it in both pvp & pve & it's a great skill to have in both. I beg A-net or some1 promote some versatility to the warrior builds! Each weapon has several elites along with the strength ones gives a enormous versatility. p.s. As i stated above a warrior with this skill is a bane to all assassins. All they can do it scream in terror as you interrupt their entire chain.(77.70.60.74 17:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC))
 * Why do you think, yourself, other builds are used more? Isn't there even a little voice in the back of your head saying this skill is shit and those builds are good? Why would you want to spend an elite on a stance that ends easily when the same effect could be achieved by a midliner using Warmonger's? Hammers attack slow, making this a terrible elite. Warmonger's can be used on fast attacking weapons without fucking up an entire bar for it. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  15:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, Dwarven Battle Stance interrupts attacking foes. And perhaps there's a chance it combines with .. let me think, something like Grapple and wait "On Your Knees!" comes to my mind. If we are lucky the developers will put an IAS into Dwarven Battle Stance to counter the slow hammers - who knows.Noctarch 23:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Morphon, you should not be so ignorant. Have you tried a build with this skill? Sure hammers don't attack as fast but still fast enough to interupt most things with this skill. When it ends all your hammer attacks are charged so you can damange/KD . Even if it's removed i found it useful to bring another IAS stance or Renewing smash. Some builds are used more because sertain elite skills preform better then others. Most of the famed shock axes i encountered while running the skill got served.(77.70.60.74 17:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC))
 * You can rest assured that there is a reason people don't run this on observer mode. Lord of all tyria 18:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill is plain superb. Even without stance renewal you have 10 seconds worth shutdown on a target. And it can kill some dreaded builds. Running away, blinding, blocking and slowing the attack rate by using the hexes can still render this stance useless. Weapon spell won't emulate it's effect to a full extent as they interrupt spells or none-spells, but not both - still.. to be fair a ranger with Volley against larger numbers is still better. In RA, TA, AB this skill is effective as there won't be much attention spared on a lowly warrior. In HA, GvG the opponent will quickly abuse the lowered max health and armor (plus will likely have tonns of snare, hexes..) SamoK 14:03, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

When ever i want to make a warrior for pvp i cant look beyond this skill. Any one who has ever locked down a monk with this knows just how addicting it is. A very easy combo for any one is : DBS, HammerBash, CrushingBlow, Bestial Mauling[pet], AntiDote sig, revive animal, charm pet and Rez signet. Use a zealous hammer mod for energy--Justice 04:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Berserker Stance is Better
Berserker Stance is a much better skill IF you are not using a hammer. I've seen some people using this in the arenas and I'm like WTF??? Seriously man, you won't get interrupts with that STUPID AXE OF YOURS. Berserker Stance gives +50% adrenaline gain too, so that helps more if you're not using a hammer.
 * berzerker's is still bad. Lord of all tyria 16:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Marln Steelfist Missing
According to the Marln page, you can also cap this skill from him during 'Attack on Jalis' Camp' 77.100.38.227 19:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Note
The second note about anti-interrupts is very obvious. Basically it says that anti-interrupts will make it so you don't interrupt your target... Removing. FleshAndFaith 17:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The anomaly
I don't think it's an anomaly, Anet just wanted to make sure people remember this is useless without hammers. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:77.70.60.74 (talk).
 * Huh? As mentioned in the article, the description doesn't state that you need a hammer in order to activate this skill. Of course it's useless without a hammer, but you should be able to do so anyways. It isn't mentioned, therefore it's an anomaly... &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 12:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess the equivalent would be having to have a bow equipped to activate Kindle Arrows, requiring a scythe to be equipped to cast Sand Shards, necessitating an appropriate elemental weapon for Conjure, or not being able to cast Way of the Master with daggers equipped, or having to have Daggers equipped for Way of the Assassin.
 * It's not the case for any of those skills, but it is for DBS, and the description doesn't reflect it. Therefore, it's an anomaly.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  21:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The bug?
The trivia mentions a bug, what exactly was the bug?-- Cyberman 20:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * something about it being able to activate without using a hammer, or something stupid that no one cares about anyway Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 16:45, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Miaintaining energy with Renewing Smash
To easily maintain Energy with DBS and Renewing Smash is simple, just add a zealous mod to your hammer and put the skill Counterattack in to the build...This will make maintaining energy between DBS and Renewing Smash much easier...q
 * Counterattack is more like a free attack because you gain some energy back but it costs energy to use in the first place. If you want energy management then use Auspicious Blow since DBS requires you to have a hammer equipped anyways. Pjwned 10:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

February update
Part of me likes this, i think it definately gives hammer warriors another dimension to their game as opposed to just KD and high damage, but then i'm not so sure if hammers are best suited for interrupting. Even with the IAS of +33%, if you start attacking at the wrong time some skills (with 1 second casting time) cannot be interrupted since the interval between your attacks will be more than 1 second. Thoughts? Luger 19:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Prot strike and use zealous? 94.7.66.237 20:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't think of that. You could be onto something there... Luger 20:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What I would personally like is a maintainable just flat out +40 armor and 33% attack speed. →[ » Halogod User Halogod35 Sig.png  (talk)« ]← 23:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 50% chance of knockdown with autoattacks would be cool, too. MAFARAXAS 06:30, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This + Dwarven Stability? 75.93.25.136 12:14, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

It was hardly overpowered B4 the nerf & is now underpowered IMO. Haven't tried this new stance in PvP yet nor had it used against me in RA yet, but I find this new stance in PVE has FAR LESS utility than the previous version. Takes too long to build adrenaline to be able to use attack skills for ints & recharge on most E attack skills have too long recharge to be able to use for ints. Used to be able to int every 1.3 sec now its every 3-5 sec (depending on attack skill availability). Also I find that it's susceptible to soothing images & other adrenaline denial skills/spells/binding rituals (where the previous version was immune). The +40 armor is negligible compared to the previous continuous ints (essentially you take somewhat less damage while stanced since fewer foes taget you, but you can't effectively prevent damage to team mates without ints available). Also, since many foes in PVE can't be KD, ints were preferable. I found in the previous version that the combination of dwarven stability with DBS enabled continuous int capability. My Opinion: The real value of the stance is the ints not the survivability.... Ultimately I'd like to see it reverted to previous version with the exception that it doesn't end when a skill is used (so you can still self heal &/or remove emapthy/IP when foes apply on you).
 * "+40 armor is negligible"


 * Whut? -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  00:53, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I, too, liked the old version better. I would train a healer in PvE and make him hurt. But now, it's just different. My bar could do so much before, it could interrupt for 11 seconds, then do a lot of damage and KD when needed. Now it's just bland. I'd like to interrupt on regular attacks again. FleshAndFaith 02:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Try using this with Crude Swing in large groups, i think mass-interrupt while having, for example, Withering Aura on you and then use Yeti Smash immediatly is quite cool, but hey, that's just me. Lou Wolfskin 12:58, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have already tried plenty of builds with the new version, and they do work and they are fun, but some part of me wants to see this returned to its former state. For PvE, definitely, this offers a lot utility, but it doesn't offer the same support, I don't think. Before, I could run up on a monk and shut them down for 10 seconds with interrupts, then hit them with 2-3 knockdowns while my stance recharged. Now it seems that I don't do that as well, and consequently, when this stance wears off, I am kind of useless (since I used my adrenal skills to interrupt). I dunno, I like the change, but I'd like it to go back to where regular hammer attacks interrupt somehow. FleshAndFaith 22:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The half damage under this stance is good, especially since you can't hold a shield with a hammer. Don't waste adrenaline too much, use Crude Swing if you can catch multiple people, Protector's Strike, and/or Staggering Blow (sparingly). Don't be afraid of losing out on interrupt benefits if you pull out a Hammer Bash, you can switch to a nearby target to spread disabling pressure. If you feel too useless outside of this stance, bring a KD that doesn't make you lose all adrenaline like Bull's Strike (or good use of Enraging Charge and P-Strike after a Hammer Bash) and "On Your Knees!" so that you don't have to be out of this stance as often. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  00:51, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not going to be modest, i pioneered using DBS based builds in RA nearly 4 years ago, lining it up with warriors cunning to provide a burst of unbeatable interupts that would knock out most casters for a good 20 seconds when coupled with a quick hammerbash at the end or a griffons if they were using distortion or gaurdian, and now i come back to play after not really touching my warrior for almost a year, and low and behold arenanet has had to step in and practically nullify an excellent build that believe it or not used to be criticized for its lack of DPS by other "pr0" warriors.

It's really disheartening that unorthodox players innovate builds, going thru alot of hassle (especially from other PVP players) only to get produce a reliable build that STILL requires skill to use effectively, and then after a few months that hard work is turned to nothing because some noobs complain about their inability to kite worth a dam and have to have the whole game nerfed to meet their low standards.

Warriors now are still acceptable against other melee, but on the whole against a self healing or heavy conditioning build, most warriors would do better to not engage them, and all it takes is for a caster to use balanced stand and then he's pretty much removed a hammer warriors biggest advantage.

Just a tip for the future folks, im fooling around with a 300hp spike N/W Grenth's Balance build with prehealing, so expect that elite to get a nerf as soon as everyone jumps on that bandwagon ;D JunoNH 02:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Irontoes Lair
any need for that? 'this person uses the skill, but you can't get it' so.. why add it?  Zachariah Zuan. 23:44, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * So people dont try and cap it there --83.82.62.210 12:39, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Which happens first?
Knock-Down or Skill 86.88.86.253 14:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)