Talk:Guide to modifying in-game graphics/Archive 2

Wait ... a guide to a secondary program?
Why here? Have we become a webhost for secondary programs now? I have no problem mentioning that such tools exist and providing links to support sites for it; but can someone point me to a conversation where it was decided that we should be a documentation site for secondary tools (ie: not Guild Wars itself)? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The only discussion on this topic was the discussion above, which was advertised on the 'request for comments' page. No one disagreed with the move of this page to the main name space, so we decided it's ok to move it. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 09:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It was posted over there less than 48 hours; and moved even quicker than that - I for one never saw it, the notice had been up for such little time. I would like to see a bit more time for comment than that.  The first I was aware of the page was when I saw it in recent changes. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If you don't want this in the main name space, then say so. I'm not sure what you think about it, judging on your posts above. I didn't do the move and tried to calm these guys down. However, no one has had anything against it yet, but if anyone has, we will ofcourse discuss it further. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 22:17, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * My main concern is the precedent of using the site to document user manuals for external software. I can easilly see this being the justification for inserting user manuals for other programs that are even marginally related to Guild Wars.  But, while I disagree with it existing in theory for that reason - I'm also a realist and acknowledge that regardless of it being in the main namespace or someone's user namespace, it's still going to exist on the wiki.
 * In the end, I could be convinced either way on this ... but with it being posted on "request for comment" for less than 48 hours, I fail to see adequate input on it for discussion. This really does set a policy-type precedent - and I can't recall a policy discussion ever being wrapped up in under a week, let alone 48 hours. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:05, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's true. I think we should post this to the request for comments for a week or two now and see what people think. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 11:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * For the record: We also have Guild Wars on Wine. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 11:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * What makes this one expectional compared to other programs is that we actually got a response from ANet with an allowance to follow the stuff on this guide, AND it's not as trivial as using Vent or TS for example. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 22:19, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Who gives a shit? &mdash; Skuld 07:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * About what? Modding or the article or how the wiki should consider third party program articles? -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 08:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

A mistake ?
Hi, and thanks for the guide. Just a thought : BMP doesn't have transparency, so it's not a good option for modding :/ I can't use dds, even with a plugin, I will try other formats... user:Leybi
 * Actually the bitmap file format started supporting transparency with Windows XP, although most editing software still doesn't support 32 bit RGBA bitmaps. -- Gordon Ecker 18:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Like Gordon mentioned, BMP supports transparency, it's your image editing program that isn't picking it up. What editing program are you using, and how is the plugin not working? -- [[Image:User_losershawn_sig.jpg|shawn]] (shawn - talk) 23:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm using Photoshop CS... But I tried with targa, same effects : In game there is no transparency in my modded texture, but in the editing program yes... Also I can open .dds with the Nvidia plugin but not save it :/ user:Leybi
 * If you have a non-english Photoshop, the DDS plugin does not install correctly. I had the same problem. I had to copy the DDS plugin-files from "/Plug-Ins" to "/Zusatzmodule" (german). poke | talk 13:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

68.6.162.118's concerns
68.6.162.118 has repeatedly added the following, and variants of it, to Guide to modifying in-game graphics/Player made modifications‎, often while blanking the page. Although this may have initially been well-intentioned, it quickly degenerated into vandalism and personal attacks. Although I strongly disagree with his or her methods, I do believe that the anonymous user's concerns should be addressed. -- Gordon Ecker 01:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "The actual Guild Wars: User Agreement, found http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/users-agreement.php, reads as follows:"
 * "3. LICENSE TO USE"
 * "You may not ... (b) modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software (...)"
 * "Further advertising of such mods which breach said contract will lead to the contact of my attorney who will in turn handle this accordingly."
 * "It has recently been brought to my attention several esteemed members of ANet's stance on such issues. While their opinions on the subject are seemingly indifferent, what they have to say is not the legal binding contract and will NOT hold up in a court of law."
 * "What members of ArenaNet SAY about modifying game files does not delegate what IS legal and what ISN'T -- the User Agreement does."
 * I'm not sure how we can address these concerns. Gaile has stated that modding cannot be condoned, but they don't intend to action people who do it in a benign fashion. Also, in regards to:
 * You may not ... (b) modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software
 * Texmod does none of these things. It doesn't touch the .dat file, or the software itself. As far as I know, all it does is intercept DX9 calls. As it stands, there's no reason why this page can't exist. -- AT (talk | contribs) 01:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You have to be careful with this, the process of figuring out what texture effects a certain object may well qualify as reverse engineering. Keep in mind that legalese is not english, the individual phrases often imply specific case law and only a passing similarity to what's in the dictionary. Cloud 01:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * My thoughts are that we should have a comment (either as a note or another message block) that references the EULA, with links to any statements made by ArenaNet representatives where they post their stance on the issue - leave it to the user to decide from that information. However, the threat of legal action on the part of the anon's lawyer is a violation of GWW:NPA.  Unless the anon in a representative of NCsoft or ArenaNet, which does not seem to be the case. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 03:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Bug?
Well, after I choose the directory of the game, select the packages and click the run button instead of getting the game started I see the message D'Oh in the window named "Shit Happened". Any clues why?
 * Unknown bug, cant really help. Make sure you select the GW.EXE ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 16:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone in the guru thread mentioned this, but never managed to resolve it. The only thing I can think of is that you're not running DX9. If it's not that, I'm stumped, sorry :( -- AT (talk | contribs) 22:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Editing Armor
I was wondering what program people were using to edit their armor. I have GIMP but I'm not so sure how to edit armor with it. I mean armor is 3D and photoshop only displays things in 2d. (I hope that made sense) Thanks in advance! Jigoku 22:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * TexMod only allows to extract/replace textures which are saved in 2D and then applied to 3D models. poke | talk 22:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So, I'm stuck with editing the 2d picture? =[ Jigoku 22:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So far you cant change the 3d image, or model, but you can change the 2d image or texture. In other words, you cant change the shape of the armour, but you can change how it looks. Omens 02:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Trojan Horse detected
When I download the mod (Just to check, I don't plan to use it for security reasons) and run a virus scan (McAfee 8.0 with dat file 5086) on the .zip file, I get a virus detected warning. McAfee finds a "New Malware.aj" Trojan Horse in texmod.exe. It may be a false positive, but I'm not taking the risk. Also, I see that the file is linked from an other domain. If the mod is 100% safe it would be nice to be able to download it from the official Guild Wars site so we know it can be trusted. After all, in a wiki like this everyone can post a link to any program, including a trojan horse.
 * The offsite link is the official Texmod site - I've just checked the link, and it's not been changed. Although it might not get rid of your fears, I've used Texmod extensively, and have never had any trojan problems, or alerts about it's use. The problem seems to be false positives with McAffee, as every user I've spoken to who's had it labelled a trojan has been a McAfee user. Norton, and AVG say it's clean on my end. If you're really unsure, the md5sum of my clean file is:
 * 3A561B80CFBA394A810D528D4C05DC7E
 * If you're not sure what to do with this, you can check your file with this and see if it matches. -- AT (talk | contribs) 12:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Warnings confusing?
I find the warnings at the start of the article a bit confusing. Do you agree with my concerns?

Quote: "This is a guide on how to "mod" GuildWars textures using a program called Texmod. By using this program you acknowledge that you cannot hold ANYONE responsible for what happens to your game or account."

This warning suggests that "this program" may cause anything to happen to your account. If this program is harmless, there should not be such a warning imo, and if the program can indeed cause something (unpleasant) to happen to your account, it should not have it's article at the wiki.

Quote: "[...] Also, third party programs not supported by ArenaNet might contain trojans, spyware, adware and other harmful programs."

If Texmod does not contain trojans, spyware, adware and other harmful programs it should be mentioned. It's a good thing to warn people of third-party programs, but in a wiki article about an allowed third party program, it should mention it's safety. --Hyper 09:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Basically, whenever you download any third-party program, you're taking a risk. In this case, you have the word of all these people that as far as we know Texmod is completely harmless (which isn't actually a guarantee, but as close as you can get), but we want to make sure that no one takes that as meaning that Anet officially endorses this product, or that any other program someone says will change your UI is on the level. There are programs out there that will steal your account, screw up your computer, wipe out your bank account, and generally be bad news if you use them, and we need to be careful when we're talking about this program that we don't lead anyone to be less cautious about such other programs. - Tanetris 09:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As we are not hosting the file, we cannot be sure that it is always clean.. poke | talk 11:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

File properties?
I understand that .dds files are the ideal format to be working with for the editing of with texture editing. When I save the file though, which settings are used to ensure that the texture works? I've tried a couple and they've resulted in the armour I was tweaking showing up entirely black and the hair becoming transparent. Any advice?
 * I generally save as 8:8:8:8 ARGB (32 bit), generating MIP maps. Whether this is the most efficient way, I don't know, but it works. -- AT (talk | contribs) 18:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * When I open it as a .dds its a transparent image. What I usualy do is anti-erase it (make it opaque) and edit, then make it transparent again. Is the a better way? Cause I dont get it back to the same ammount of transparent then its all shiny --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.130.232.97.
 * DDS offers an alpha channel, so there is no need to use the eraser... When I get my new copy of Photoshop I will make a tutorial about this.. poke | talk 11:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * For most files you'll want to save as DXT5 (ARGB, 8bpp | interpolated alpha). For some parts of the UI where the alpha is just on/off rather than blending and transparency, you can use DXT1 (ARGB, 4bpp | 1bit alpha). -- [[Image:User_losershawn_sig.jpg|shawn]] (shawn - talk) 15:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

temporary file of TextMod
It seems that TextMod creates a temporary file called "wtf??.tmp" where "??" is a one or two digit number. It's located at "c:\documents and settings\USERNAME\local settings\temp" (at least under Win2000). Unfortunately my virus scanner (AntiVir) runs amok because the file seems to be packed with a run time packer called "nspack" which the virus scanner considers "uhm, do you really want to acces that file?!?". Anybody got some info (hopefully de-FUD-ing) on this issue? T.T.H. 20:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Modding faq
After reading comments here, and on the threads on guru, I was kinda sick of people asking the same questions and getting the same answers. So I decided to write a faq, which can be found here. I added as many questions that I could find, think of, I encoutered myself, but any comments or suggestions are welcome. Omens 12:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've adapted this in part, and added to the article. If any of it's wrong or a bit misguided, correct away :) -- AT (talk | contribs) 13:14, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

It seems that when i run TexMod it just doesn't create a .Log file...