Feedback talk:User/Wynthyst/The cost of Jadeite/Amber

I like either one of the solutions, as long as it changes from that 5k faction it costs now, I'll be happy ~ Sanna  01:06, 5 September 2009 (UTC) Earning 400,000 faction if you do not abuse the mechanics of FA/JQ takes a LONG time. -- Wyn  talk  12:48, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Or they could reduce the # of units it takes to craft the armor. -- FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 01:21, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a bizarre suggestion. You don't NEED the Luxon/Kurzick elite armour. I remember the days when amber sold for 5k. This is just a part of the economy and tbh I liked when jadeite and amber were worth more because I could sell it for more thus making small amounts of money off of alliance battles and FA. It's still A LOT easier to farm jadeite and amber than it is to farm rubies or sapphires. I don't want them to reduce the value of jadeite or amber now, the worth of these two materials isn't that great (considering it's 5,000 faction to purchase them in the first place. Elite armour is optional. The allegiance title track is definitely optional. There is no problem here. Work for it like everyone else had to. 122.111.4.131 07:25, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the idea, but I dont think is the right solution. If we will get 2/1 title points for faction point spend for jadeite/amber then we will have no reason to donate faction for out alliance. Like: "What should I do? Donate faction for my alliance to get double points? or get some jadeite/ambers to get double points + money?". And this will be bad for economy. Maybe +50% title points for jadeite/amber could be a solution. So we will get 7.5k title points for every amber/jadeite and we will still have to choose between more money or more title points.-- Sharkinu [[Image:User Sparky Sharkinu sig.jpg|18px]] talk 07:51, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you aren't in a guild that cares about donation, that shouldn't matter. For some of us our goals are to fill our HoM's by acquiring all the elite armor available, and GWAMM. I am a strictly PvE player, and I have exactly TWO ONE sets of Elite Kurzick armor because I am still VERY far away from maxing my Allegiance title and I refuse to use what faction I do acquire in vanquishing/elite missions, on a 1/1 contribution. The faction cost of jadeite for 2 sets of armor = my next title rank, and from there I have to get as much faction as I have accumulated in 3+ years of play for the next. To achieve my GWAMM title, I have to complete at least one account based title and at this point my Allegiance rank is farther than either Wisdom or Treasure Hunter. I'm just not sure that the Live Team intended for the acquisition of Elite Lux/Kurz armor to become the gold sink it has since this change.
 * "the worth of these two materials isn't that great (considering it's 5,000 faction to purchase them in the first place.)"
 * This suggestion has my full support. 5,000 faction for a chunk of amber/shard of jadeite is absurd. -- Gah_  01:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not signed. The faction requirement was increased for a reason, and the reason is that it is much faster to get faction now than it was prior to the rebalance. To compare with the title progress "sacrificed" is not a valid point, as the entire title is much more easy to attain now. That jade/amber is not particularly hard to get is easily proven by the cost at material trader, which is still very low. If you do not want to sacrifice faction to get the amber/jade, or refuse to play the game modes where you can earn faction fast, buy it for money. It is a trade-off, one that is up to the invididual. --Lensor ( talk ) 11:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do you consider the loss of title contribution to be invalid? I don't see it that way at all. Losing 400,000 faction towards my title contribution is a major issue for me, as is paying anywhere near 200k for a set of armor (the reason I will never have obsidian armor on any character). Considering that the allegiance title requires 10,000,000 million faction to max, you may say that faction is "much easier" to get, but I would have to disagree unless you are into grinding repetitive vanquishes, or abusing/exploiting the broken mechanics of FA/JQ/AB. For someone simply playing through the game, acquiring just 1,500,000 faction toward my title has taken me 3+ years of game play on 11 characters. Also, the cost at the material trader has nearly tripled since this change since few people are willing to trade that much faction at a 1/1 ratio for something that earns them so little gold. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  11:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * "Much easier" is relative of course. Luxon/Kurzick was always a really grindy title and still is, so "less insanely grindy" is maybe more descriptive. You were never going to max this title playing normally, especially if you refuse to do JQ/FA/AB. With the latest revamp it was made significantly easier though, which is why jade and amber got the upped faction cost, to prevent the value of jade/amber becoming nil. You may also consider that Anet wanted the cost of amber/jade to go up a nudge, to give the armors a little bit of their former elite status back. In any case, even should I agree that it should be a priority to keep the cost of elite armor skins down so that people can concentrate on maxing their titles in stead of spending on the armors, the changes you suggest would be way too much. If a five-time increase of faction cost only lead to a "nearly tripled" trader cost, going back to 1k per jade/amber or giving bonus points also for mats, would kill their value completely.--Lensor ( talk ) 07:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The gold prices are still very low, the armors are named 'Elite' for a reason. The faction cost rebalance was done to make the Urgoz's Warren and The Deep more rewarding. I don't get all the complaining about the costs, the armors are very cheap for something 'Elite' and most importantly they're NOT NEEDED for anything, it's just visuals.--Yawg [[image:User_Yawg_Pumpkin_Crown.png|Yawg]] 09:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have to disagree that the cost of Elite Luxon/Kurzick armor is "very cheap" in comparison to the rest of the elite armor in the game. The only armor that is more expensive is Obsidian. I don't have a problem with being able to earn faction in ways other than FA/JQ/AB, in fact it's the only reason I have been able to get to 1.5 million on my title. What i object to is losing 400,000 faction from my title progress if I choose to use it for jade/amber to get armors that I would like. People who choose to earn Obsidian armor by playing in FOW and the UW don't have to choose between title progress and their armor, why should we have to for Luxon/Kurzick? I just don't think that 5,000 faction at a 1/1 contribution ratio is fair. If lowering the cost to 1,000 at a 1/1 ratio is too little, and 5,000 at a 2/1 ratio is too much, maybe something in between, say 3,000 faction at 2/1 ratio, like skills. I just really dislike the fact that I have to choose to sacrifice so much faction contribution to acquire the elite armor that I wish for my HoM. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  09:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I loved when the cost of jadeite/amber quintupled, because I made a fortune on the stacks I had saved up. But I agree that the cost is far too high and the payout too low at current. I think the cost should be reduced to 1,000 again. -- Gah_  00:11, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

While we're on the subject, Labrynthine armor is easily as cost prohibitive, from a purely monetary standpoint. Even though the base gold cost is only 8k per piece, because you have to purchase 400 rolls of vellum, you end up spending at least 140k at current market prices. It doesn't make any sense to me that you have to purchase 400 of a rare material but only 40 of the common crafting material (feathers). They should switch the material requirements (40 vellum, 400 feather) and bring the base cost back up to 15k per piece. And they should do the same for Flowing armor and Scar Pattern armor, which each cost almost as much as Labrynthine and for the same reason. ( Satanael |  talk ) 15:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The difference between Vellum and Amber or Jadeite is that Vellum can be crafted at Artisans out of common materials at a relatively low cost, and Amber and Jade cannot. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  16:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Your idea is not absurd and agree that something needs to be done. I like both of your suggestions, btw.MystiLefemEle 10:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Disagree with this
I play AB and PvE in equal amounts. And it took me about 2.5 years to get to rank 12 in both sides. I switched to kurzick back in may, when the zquests were introduced, and i reached rank 12 there last month (8 months). I have 10 characters, one for each profession. Picked up the zquests on each, learned a workable build that i enjoyed for each in AB, and got 2 wins on them over the course of the 4-9 days that it takes for the new copy of the zquest to come out, and it kind of piles up quickly if you do this for each AB quest. And if you are a kurzick, you have almost ZERO excuse not to be mowing through these quests, since its always on kurzick maps since the zquests were introduced.

Elite armor takes 80 pieces. in one average week, 11 copies of the zquest, after 2 wins each that gets you 82,500 faction. count in faction from the 2 wins, plus a couple of losses and the you are talking about 130,000+ in a week. Thats roughly 25 jade/amber. in 2-3 weeks, you would have to the 80 needed. I play AB more than a casual, but I also dont play it obsessively, I think I am just effective at it. I still played plenty of pve while i did this, so i dont think its unreasonable at all. factor in the fact that the 11 zquests alone would be giving you 11,000g over that week, you can buy some more pieces that way too. Changing this system would crush the prices and making donation to the guild pointless, not to mention, its still not necessary as i showed. This also isnt even taking into account that AB isnt the fastest way to get faction. Simply the way i enjoy to get to it (i dont find AB that qimmicky, while i do agree FA and JQ are). If you pve, you should earn enough gold to quickly buy what you need. I think the last time i checked, it cost my friend around 120,000g to get their elite luxon armor. Not unreasonable. Of course, thats assuming you buy at the sell price, and not the max price. And they are buying from the sell price from me.

Also, what about AB weekend? I tend to play more then, but i typically pull down 200,000 to 500,000 faction from that. Could buy an elite set from that weekend alone. Not to mention that ab quest is repeatable on the day its offered. Unfair? Hardly. Its simply a question of what is it worth to you. I have to think you dont work on that title that hard, because i didnt work hard at it. Getting to 12 was mostly just an after effect for me. I still AB because I enjoy the pvp side of it, and my guild is so tiny I cant do "real" pvp.

You need some amber or jade? I'll sell you some too. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).


 * That's fine for the crazy, obsessive person who is going to do the zquest 11 times in a week, or who enjoys AB or JQ/FA. I personally got bored with the zquests after about the 3rd week of them or so, and have never enjoyed AB or JQ/FA (I don't pvp at all, I don't find it fun, or relaxing, or even slightly amusing). This makes the acquisition of Jadeite and Amber very tedious to say the least. After almost 4 years and 14,000 hrs playing guild wars, my Luxon title is only rank 6 and we aren't even going to talk about the Kurzick one. When Jadeite and Amber were 1,000 faction each, it was reasonable for me to be able to gain enough faction doing AB, now there is just no way, other than spending a fortune at the trader, or from players like you. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  17:20, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting way to put it into perspective. All I do are competitive missions though. It took me about 4?ish months of only FA and donating to get to the max title. You could do it faster than I did though. Need jade, I have over 300 pieces atm, waiting to find a buyer lol. Previously Unsigned 17:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I find it kind of funny you label me obessive, when ive only been playing for 40 months and 4000 hours, in comparison to your 48+ months and 14,000 hours. What the hell are you doing in all of those hours?  AFK while you wiki? :P Just playing brain dead normal mode PvE for 30-40 minutes nets you probably on average 1k in gold from garbage drops.  I have 1.5 million in cash in the game right now, and I dont farm a single thing, dont use pvx, dont use wiki for walkthroughts/qimmicks, and pretty much just play by myself.  So you should have 3 times what I have at least. So again, i dont see this as a question of whats fair.  Because you should have tons of ability already.


 * Want to grow board with zquests? Your choice.  I dont do them daily.  I pick and choose the ones i want to do, half of them are worthless to me usually, and i ignore them.  The z-prediction page helps you see whats coming up, so you dont really need to pay much attention to it.  And it simply takes 20 seconds to zone and pick up the quest you want, and just get to it whenever, its free!  I was simply saying, considering whats out there, its really easy to acquire what you want.  Its your choice to exclude half of the game, for whatever reasons you have.  But that also hurts your point about fair.  Because its not their fault you dont want to use some of the tools they give you.


 * I would suggest giving AB another try. its the "low" form of PvP, more casual.  Keep local chat off, maybe even keep team chat off, if you find the loud mouth malcontents to be one reason for the stress.  And just go into it thinking you have a 50/50 shot of winning. Even good players lose, simply because the other 2 teams stink.  But thats life.  And the opposing team has to deal with that just as much as you do.  Expect yourself to need to learn and lose. You might even find yourself rethinking what kind of builds you use, because what works in PvP is often different than what works in PvE.  Might even get to use skills you never touched before.  Even if you just get good at a couple of your professions (Rt, P and D are all pretty worthless in AB IMO), you are still talking about helping out your cause pretty significantly, even if it takes you longer to get those 2 wins on a couple of profession (i recommend W, E, Mo), the fact you can turn in the zquest whenever, is simply a free bonus of 2.5 jade/amber, every time.


 * Plus, I assume you are in a guild. Dont those people help?  If you are in a guild larger than 1 active player, you should have more help than i have had in my past experience.  And like i said, ill sell you what i can at the moment at the merchant seller price, i have around 70 spare amber and probably 170 spare jade at the moment. IGN nephenee tonks.  Plus you have this other person offering up 300.  Welcome to supporting an active virtual economy! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).
 * I have 13 characters that are all 3x protectors at least, one legendary survivor, one perma pre and am 3 titles away from GWAMM on my main character along with a host of other characters that I play with friends at various levels of the game, I rarely afk, though more now that earlier in my playing days, and yes, I am not only guild leader, but alliance leader of a guild that is almost 3 years old. You ask what I do? I mostly help other people in my guild/alliance accomplish their goals, or work towards my own though my own goals are now down to maxing Drunkard, which is even more of a bore than z-quests, maxing Sweettooth and maxing Luxon, which I don't anticipate happening until long after GW2 has been released. Of the 3 main campaigns, Factions is my least favorite, but EotN is my least favorite of all. AB is mindless running from one shrine to the next, and gets way old after about 2 turns through, you can ask anyone in my guild and they will tell you that to get me into AB at all takes an act of God. About my only hope of gaining enough faction points to acquire even one more set of elite armor is repeat vanquishing, which I am doing to also use up the plethora of sweet points I have. JQ/FA are and have been hopelessly broken for longer than I can remember, so are areas I stay away from. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  18:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting remarks. While AB has its problems, because all games have its problems, i hardly think its fair to call it mindless.  Almost makes you sound like a PvE snob, compared to complaints about PvP snobs.  Playing against active, different, human players cant be any less mindless than playing against scripted never changing AI routines, dont you think?  While there are cookie cutter builds out there, there is still quite a bit of variation, simply because its a place where sometimes people dont know any better.  So its a constant battle of your skill vs another's skill, your build vs their build, etc...  Its pretty adaptive play.  Can it sometimes turn into running around in circles sometimes?  Sure.  So can PvE if you think about it.  Instead of cap shrines, PvE simply has enemy groups to walk one to another to.  Again, and again, and again.  Never changing their skills, usage or behavior.  I wonder how you are able to able to last in that more than 12 minutes (2 minutes if you use con sets).  But I digress.


 * Considering how much crap you have already, and how much you play, you still have zero excuse to say the costs of amber and jade are unreasonable. Dont want to earn the stuff in PvP, fine.  Dont.  Earn it via all the easy money you earn in PvE.  Its your choice that you are burning your money in other areas, like drunkard and sweet tooth.  Pick whats important to you.  ANET has zero responsibility to make it any easier for you on a couple of titles YOU dont work the way many others do.  I dont expect to ever Max sweet, party or drunk.  Should i boo hoo about that, and tell them to change the max title to 1050 points?  No. Why?  Because those titles are irrelevant, and simply their to act as gold sinks.  Just as getting anything in the game is irrelevant, beyond just saying you have some virtual thing.  I like GW because its not about how big your epeen is.  Also, think about ANET philosophy.  They arnt usually about grind.  I am willing to bet the rewards that port over GW2 will be nowhere near what people expect(outside of a few significant trophies, and even then, its probably unlikely, other than just different skinned weapon unlocks perhaps).  I doubt they will give much of anything to reward someone who spent a ton of money to grind a drunk trophy. HoM isnt playing GW2, its not about giving you a leg up in GW2.  They simply wanted to give people something to complete in the meantime, a distraction.


 * I also suggest you start to wonder why you are even doing things in a game that you openly admit to being more of a bore than another bore. Seems, rather... odd.  I personally have no idea why anyone would ever want to max drunk. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).
 * Some people just like collecting titles. When I used to use the zchest I maxed a lot of people's sweeth tooth and drunk titles. It's much easier to sell sweets now than alcohol though IMO, which seems weird since a lot of consumables are also sweets. Previously Unsigned 19:06, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, i totally understand the collecting thing (not so much for those really silly inane ones though, they seem awfully desperate). But that isnt my point.  My point is, ANET doesnt have any responsibility to make anyone's selective collecting issues any easier.  I find getting amber and jade to be pretty damn easy, through normal consistant play.  Everyone has their titles that they wont get easily or at all. I still have never been able to do the Underworld, should I say GW should change all of that so I get to experience it?  No.  Wyn should have so much help from their guild (especially since wyn helps them), and the stuff earned in PvE, that i frankly find it laughable they have a problem acquiring any armor in the game, let alone faction elite armor.


 * As for why alcohol is harder to sell, i would think its due to the introduction of kegs, and maybe due to how the drunk point mechanic works. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).

I actually do not buy any of this stuff. I have stacks and stacks gained from simply playing, or that's been given to me by guild/alliance in return for party points that I no longer need as I've already maxed. I also do not buy materials or other things from players, if I can not earn/make stuff in game then I don't get it. All other armor crafting material (with the exception of Claws, Fangs and Ectos) can be crafted at Artisans, and the three exceptions have a relatively high drop rate in comparison to Jadeite/Amber, making their acquisition relatively easy through simple play. That the acquisition of these two materials is tied to a commodity (faction points) that is also required in very high numbers to earn another title is where I have the biggest problem, and thus my suggested solution to increase the contribution ratio if the cost is going to remain at 5,000 pts/per. I have no problem with the fact you disagree based on your completely different playing style/preferences, but there are plenty of other players in the community that also prefer a purely pve based experience. -- Wyn  talk  19:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "you are burning your money in other areas, like drunkard and sweet tooth."
 * As to why I wish to max Drunk, well, after all the time and effort I've put into the game, I would really like to end with a GWAMM title. To do this without any pvp titles, Drunkard is required. The reason I'm so far behind (only 1700 pts) is that I HATE sitting in my guild hall doing nothing but clicking my mouse for hours on end. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  19:48, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This gets stranger and stranger. To go back and paraphase you, you said you have stacks and stacks of sugar and drink, some given to you by your guild alliance via trade, and yet for some reason taking materials from the same people is impossible in your "ethics"?  Come on now.  Thats just dumb.


 * Secondly, everything has an inherent value. All that sugar and beer you burn on pointless titles, could have been used to acquire other pointless titles.  Sure, its rarely a 1:1 thing, but you have stacks and stacks, remember?  So while i will simply disagree due to my belief that PvP+PvE is just as valid as just PvE or just PvP, you still have no excuse to be complaining here. And if you want to be just purely PvE, dont you think its rather dumb to say i am too good to use a merchant for something i cant easily get the way i play?  THATS WHY ITS THERE! So you have MULTIPLE ways of getting what you want, easily. You earned your gold in PvE, use it to buy the damn materials.  Its not welfare.  If you are in love with making things pointlessly difficult, I hear using your vision makes PvE way too easy.  I suggest just keeping your eyes closed, makes it so much more challenging to play just based on skill sound effects and learning to count your footpint sounds to know where you are.  Makes about as much sense as avoiding PvP to grind a PvP title with PvE vanquishing.  You would probably be better off farming Urgoz and The Deep in HM btw (those also come with extra bonus zquests too, boring I KNOW!).


 * I gave you my example of a non-hardcore player maxing BOTH titles in less than a 1/3rd of the time you have played in total, while also beating all the campaigns with all 10 characters, maxing pve titles, etc... My Faction way is actually a relatively slow way to boot.  Speed Clears and other forms of PvP would probably cut the rate down in half.  We are talking months.  To adjust this in the way you propose wouldnt work.  You would have NO reason to give to a guild (a mechanic factions was designed for).  Why give to the guild when you get get the same title amount + a rare material?  You would have to bump up the bonus to a guild even more, and thus everything just keeps getting out of whack.


 * Honestly, the only person you have to blame for this, is yourself. You have plenty of easy options, that would probably net you Kurzick and Luxon elites on every single character you have, this instant.  But YOU CHOOSE not to use them, due to some misplaced sense of pride, or something. Using a merchant doesnt give you AIDS btw, nor does it mean you fail at the game.


 * And if you are doing something simply because you have worked on it before, isnt a good reason to keep doing it, especially considering how insane it is. I think you should appreciate your time more than that.  Sounds like you are running into some cognitive dissonance with it.  Where you almost feel like you need to justify the fact you already wasted so much time in it already.  You dont.  I dont even think the reward of GWAMM is worth it.  Because all that title does it say how much time you wasted, nothing about your skill or ability.  So I hope you dont fall into some sense of disappointment soon after reaching it. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).

Why would that matter? Our guild/alliance has no need of faction, since we have no aspirations, the only reason to contribute to the guild atm is for the 2/1 gain towards allegiance titles. The solution I have proposed would allow you to choose either of those options for the same result, 2/1 gain toward your title as well as gaining the material for armor.
 * "You would have NO reason to give to a guild (a mechanic factions was designed for). Why give to the guild when you get get the same title amount + a rare material?"
 * As for relying on guildies/allies to give me Jade/Amber, well, they are also working towards titles and armor. Why would I want to take something from them that they need for themselves? -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  20:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Use a trader or trade with players. Requires zero reprogramming, zero effort that could be spent better elsewhere. Zero effect to the economy. Would allow you to have everything within a couple of hours. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).
 * Also, I never said I was too good for the trader I simply said that in comparison to other materials required to craft armor, these two are prohibitively expensive (in the amounts needed) to purchase. Thus my comparison to the amount of gold it would cost to simply purchase Elite Luxon/Kurzick armor compared to Vabbian. I have never said that it can't be done, I simply wanted to point out that for someone who is working towards allegiance titles, that these two materials have made Elite Luxon/Kurzick armor very expensive in comparison to other elite armor, and asking them to consider changing the contribution ratio, if not the faction cost itself. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  20:47, 9 January 2010 (UTC)