User:Auron/GuildWarsSucksSoMuch/ArenaNet's Community Relations failures

'''ANet; work on CR. As evidenced in this thread, not only do your two current CR people not fulfill their roles, they live in denial about what they're supposed to be doing. If you want Guild Wars to be taken seriously by any PvPers, you need to learn how to listen. The best thing you could do right now? Hire Ensign, at least part-time, to serve as a liaison between the devs and the PvP community; Ensign knows what he's talking about, knows more about game mechanics than pretty much anyone, and is a respected member of the PvP community. If you're looking for someone to relay information between the devs at ANet and the PvP community, at least pick someone who knows what they're talking about.'''

As noted on the root rant page, JR's post was removed from that thread (along with all posts that didn't completely and wholeheartedly agree with Andrew - evidently the mods wanted a "blind zealot only" thread). JR got a hold of his deleted post and put it back up on his guild's site, but since it's such an awesome post I'll put a copy of it here, too.

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Andrew Patrick wrote: ''It seems to us that one of the problems in the community right now is that a number of people seem to think we have the right to mandate things to the design team. The fact of the matter is we can only make suggestions based on community feedback—even if those suggestions happen to have been posted as a demand. It is up to the design team to determine what is really best for the game. That is why they are professionals… ''

A design team will be far more open to suggestions that are sieved out by a competent community manager.

If you prove to your design team through every day work that you have a strong grasp of the design process and understand the reasoning involved, they will be far more likely to listen to community concerns coming from you.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''Many of the changes that outspoken members of the community have complained about—soul reaping and party size in HA are the two big ones that come to mind—were made at the request, nay, demand of the loudest members of the community at that time. Therein lies the problem, happy people are playing the game, upset people are posting on the forums. The clearest example for that was the 6v6/8v8 situation in HA.''

Wrong. The Soul Reaping change was entirely necessary, and that fact has been obvious for a very long time. Sadly there is zero communication between community relations and Izzy about these things, because neither you or Gaile have made the effort to understand PvP, or PvPers.

It is the job of community relations to translate these issues (such as skill balance and undesirable game mechanics) to the designers. It involves having a deep understanding of the game, and that is something that every member of a community team should have as standard. Sadly, again, neither you or Gaile come close to that kind of knowledge.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''If you recall, we had a weekend that changed HA to 6v6. The community, in an unprecedented majority, requested that 6v6 remains…or at least the members of the community who, at that time, were posting on the forums came to that consensus. ''

It is also the job of the community team to know who to listen to.

If you had listened to the sectors of the community that actually played Heroes Ascent then you would have avoided the entire problem. Instead you took heed of people who weren't that interested, and were just hoping that the change might make it more interesting - at no loss to them if it didn't.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''When 8v8 reverted, those who wanted 8v8 returned to the game and, essentially, stopped posting because they had no concerns to mention. When, however, 6v6 came back, the members of the community who were enjoying the 8v8 returned to the forums, while those who wanted 6v6 were in the game playing. After all, while it isn’t a happy truth, the fact of the matter is people are more vocal and more likely to post on the forums when they are upset. ''

Welcome to community relations 101; learning to understand the vocal minority. Sometimes they are a bunch of whiners, sometimes they are your canary in a coal mine. Again, it is entirely part of the community relations role to do the digging and have the understanding to make the call.

Neither of you have ever been active in the PvP community, so neither of you understand it. You don't know who to listen to, where to go for opinions, or who to avoid.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''People say we do not listen enough, and I would be so bold to say that, if anything, we listen too much. Three months ago everyone was saying we needed to do more, but now the largest complaint, by far, is that we have changed the game so much, it is no longer as fun as it once was to some people. So do you want more change or less change? The answer changes from person to person… ''

The 'needing to do more' comes from the vast number of aspects of the game that have been broken at some point - and have needed fixing. The 'changed the game so much' comes from the number of expansions and new content introduced that disrupts PvP play considerably.

Please don't try and whitewash away problems with ambiguous statements.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''The dev team is in a “damned if we do damned if we don’t” situation because we cannot possibly make the game 100% perfect for 3.5 million individuals with individual tastes, desires, and opinions. ''

You could start on the list of things that there is almost universal agreement on from the people that it actually effects. Yes there will always be some people who complain, but you have to find a balance and through that the best for the game. Using this argument as an excuse to do nothing is ridiculous.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''Unfortunately, there seem to be some who feel we should blindly listen to them even when the very threads they are posting suggestions or feedback in show the reaction from the community is very much divided. Honestly, if half the people posting in the thread are strongly against an idea, it should be clear there is no “easy answer” since no matter what is decided, it will go against the wishes of some of the community.''

None of the problem lies with the issues that are actually seriously debated.

Take Soul Reaping. Everyone with a clue realized it needed to be changed, so you change it despite the fact that yes - some people will whine. Well done. Sadly the change is pretty terrible, because it was implemented by yet another person who doesn't actually play the game. Now you have more whining, so there needs to be another change.

It's that simple. Nobody really cares about the issues that can actually be debated, because at the end of the day even the person who originally posted it will have to accept that it isn't in everyones interests. The points of contention are the many issues that everyone agrees on, but are never addressed.

Andrew Patrick wrote: I personally write a 4-8 page community summary containing forum links, quotes, and suggestions and that goes to the designers every week.

I find that rather unimpressive coming from a member of the community team that has absolutely zero actual involvement with the community.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''The impatience, the rudeness, the demanding attitudes…they are all counter-productive behaviors. If there has ever been an update that you think there was not enough forethought prior to it going live, do not rush us. If you ever feel like we are not reading the forums enough, do not be rude to us and make reading them more difficult. If you ever feel like we are appeasing one group of people at the expense of another, do not demand things. Have faith in the design team, stop acting like you are a part of it, and let them do their jobs. ''

I strongly suggest to both you and Gaile that if you ever expect to go further in your line of work that you very quickly start to develop much thicker skins. Stop expecting respect purely because of your job title, and start earning it.

Andrew Patrick wrote: ''Receiving a pay-check does not turn us into your punching bags, and if that is honestly anyone’s philosophy—that if someone is paid they cease to deserve to be treated kindly—I ask you, would you like customers or clients of wherever you may work to treat you disrespectfully?

Don’t say we signed up to be treated like crap because we took our jobs…don’t justify immature, presumptuous, or down right anti-social behavior with “they get paid to take my abuse.” I understand you are passionate, but is attacking the people who made the very thing you are passionate about really the best way to act?''

I'm sorry but when you go into a community role, particularly on an MMO with PvP content, you have to expect it. That doesn't make it right, but it is always going to be there. Expecting most players to be polite and respectful is a glaring sign of naivety, and if anything just makes you more of a target.

Learn to deal with the community in a way that doesn't simply antagonize and provoke it, and your pain will be minimized. Learn not to respond to trolling with emotional outbursts. Learn how to handle the different sections of the community in a way that suits them.

I realise I am making community relations sound awfully difficult and tricky. Well... it is. Wake up and smell the bagels, this is why community relations is commonly referred to within the industry as eating bees or being sexually molested by jellyfish. Essentially; stop being a pair of wimps. That should be in your job description.

Community relations in Guild Wars has been a shambolic affair from the start. A community team that does not interact with all segments of the community? That isn't well informed about the game?

Those are two key things you most definately lack, but I honestly think it is too late to even think about trying to improve. Fingers crossed by Guild Wars 2 ArenaNet will have realized their mistake.

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A few notes to include about Regina... she doesn't even play the game, whereas AP and Gaile could pretend they were doing their job. And the whole "grow a thicker skin" thing JR says to Andrew? I posted my version on Reggie's whiny emo rant on her blog and she deleted it.

Scary that they can't deal with the internet.