User talk:Raine Valen/Mass Balance/Warrior/Skills/Tactics

Raine's Proposal:
I personally like it. As would be expected. It's still niche, though.  Raine  - talk  03:13, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * How about returning damage to the attacker, in Jedi style? 145.94.74.23 12:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Then it would be totally imba. I could see that if it were like Dodge (my proposed one), but not in this form.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  16:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It might not be that bad if the recharge was increased a bit, to let's say 15 so it couldn't be kept up all the time. If you consider that a a half-decent player wouldn't attack the same target again after he got damage once or twice? 145.94.74.23 08:13, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Or maybe make it a bit like Shield Bash, in that it ends on the first projectile, and the user of that projectile gets hits by the projectile instead, and this skill ends. 145.94.74.23 08:20, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

PoA's Proposal
Addresses the "Jedi" issue while balancing the damage done. -- Antioch 19:10, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Raine's Proposal:
I personally like it. As would be expected. It's much easier to use, and I think it'd also be a lot of fun. Also, I think it fits its name much better.  Raine  - talk  03:13, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Protector's Defense + Healing Seed = ??? --76.25.197.215 03:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem with that. That would require the person enchanted with SoL to be in aggro range (adjacent, actually), at which point mobs would break aggro on the people who were blocking (blocking makes you lose aggro, iirc) and attack the person with SoL.
 * On a different note, SoL is probably due for an update.
 * Also, these are all intended for PvP. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  03:20, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I know. Those two could make some awesome healballs. --76.25.197.215 03:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll change it to "lose health" instead of "take damage". Thanks.  =)  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  04:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Too imba like that. It's a skill. It cannot be removed, nearby is a damn huge range and you can keep it up constantly with secondary warrior with enough investment in Tactics. Also, nearby is a huge range. Make it adjacent please. Moreover, if you change recharge back to 30, it can still be kept up by two warriors. Change it a stance and it's far more balanced. Otherwise, shorten duration and make recharge 20-30 secs. And one more thing... losing health is kinda odd in that way. Maybe you should make it -20 armor or something, similiar? BUT, I really like the idea of updating this skill, since Tactics is worth it. Mediggo 07:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Boro's suggestion for Healing Signet
Do you mean "You have -40 armor" or "You have 40 armor"? There's a large difference.
 * the first one Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Earthshaker.jpg|10px‎]] 12:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Too powerful. A healing skill with no cost and 4 recharge shouldn't heal for 170, especially not with such a short cast time. Dark Morphon 10:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Except that while casting it(for 1 second) you take double damage, your dps becomes 0, enemies can kite you, and you cannot use it on others. 1 second is still fairly easy to interrupt as that most interrupts take about 1/2 a sec to go off and I have a .35 second reaction time under normal circumstances, I am fairly certain that dedicated interrupters could get it off with no sweat, most of the time. Weaponmaster 07:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Weapon mastery that argument is flawed.1st your supposed to use it out of combat.Second it should be used to relieve pressure of monks or gank.And 3rd learn to cancelcast.The reason this skill has fallen out of favor is purely because of the immense power creep. Lilondra [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  11:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * First off its master not mastery it's a noun for an individual not...whatever. Second, and more importantly, my reasoning behind my argument in order: Should yo be imbecilic enough to use it in combat, most builds pump out about what, 50-60dps, that would (theoretically, I'll grant) a total damage taken of 100-120 almost negating the benefit of the heal regardless. Should you have absolutely horrid timing/luck and an elementalist hits you with a spell that would normally deal 100 damage you could very well die if you were low enough on health. To use this in combat would be admittedly suicidal under normal circumstances, however you monk could be distracted/too far away/or gods forbid, non-existent: you could be facing certain death without a self heal. Plus the reduced casting time isn't purely defensive, if you are pressuring then less time spent casting is more time fighting and doing what you should be doing anyway plus consider,please the warriors only real alternative to on demand healing from their primary: lions comfort, with no armor penalty and a shorter cast time(albeit with a smaller heal) it should be substantially better, and in some cases it is. I however rarely find myself using it for one reason, it is much to unreliable with an adrenaline cost should you lose adrenaline somehow or need a heal NOW before being able to charge it(blind, miss, blocking) you are screwed, meanwhile while charging LC you are being pummeled by just about every other class simply they don't have a setup time to fight at full combat effectiveness. Healing signet is much more reliable in my mind and though it has drawbacks it shows more merit than many give it.
 * Your reasons 1) as I said monks unavailable for whatever reason and you need a big heal NOW, the more common 2ndary heals can't cover the damage in time(eg Breeze and Unguent) and the while Heal Sig can spell doom in close combat if you are incredibly low at what should be you yellow zone is where you use it(hit yellow, damaged into red while casting and boom up into green again) 2) I can't really argue with that except the now instance with the unavailable monk. Finally number 3) (this one was my favorite reason you put up) how the F*** is that supposed to help, if you are low on health and begin taking damage you have 3 options 1, heal sig and hope you survive, 2, run towards you monk/away from you attacker and get your @$$ autocritted, or 3, fight and die I don't know about yo but I'd chose door number one and hope it gets off, with caution the 40armor shouldn't be a problem. My beef is with the cast time really It's pretty much a sign saying "hit me now, I'm softer than a caster!" lowering that should bring it up to par with the power creep, which is much easier to swallow for the masses than bringing everything down to release levels, sadly. Farewell and get the name right next time Weaponmaster 23:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yh I made that mistake saw it and couldnt be bothered to care really.Most of the time when people mock spelling they absolutely have no point.The big problem with this skill is the fact that damage got increased with this much.People used to run this all the time afaik.I run it constantly in pve for example.My monks are bad and I need to run frenzy to feel manly.So I sprint/rush back heal sig 2ce and I'm back at full health.I'm most of the time the last one to die simply because of heal sig (and a dchophere and there).TBH Most of what you said seems to lean on theory.If you kite you still get less damage then standing still simply because OTHERWISE PEOPLE WOULDNT KITE.You actually introduced power creep (LC a obviously megaimba skill) into your reasoning.I'm going to say more.Self heal in general is underestimated.People often no longer see the use of taking pressure of your monks and saving them some energy.If you didn't know yet atm skills are +- more OP and lame then right after nightfall (wich ironically brought nightfall upon game balance).People play lame and skillless builds.PS,VoR,LC,... make sure that your winning odds go up.I won't neglect that but you in fact get worse by playing this builds.I first said this just to mock them but I found it to be true :/ people just no longer are used to playing decently.All anet has done is buff damage,buff mindless skills and stuff like that.DO you expect all skills to keep up with that ? No Then your healthbar becomes meaningless (driven to the extreme).Mock my spelling all you want,be arrogant all you want you don't have a clue what your talking about here. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:27, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, first off I wanted to apologize for sounding arrogant, I had no intention of doing so and most profusely seek forgiveness for that accidental transgression. I understand the power creep, I will admit that I haven't been playing for as long as most of the others on this wiki probably (+- 14months) so I really have little knowledge about the earlier days of GW. Now I see the trends of power creep however I feel(and touched on) bringing up skills to par with the power creep. To expand on that I need to mention buffing skills left behind will relieve some problems but some of the baseline attributes of the game (health levels for example) need a tweaking. On the other hand there is the option of taking all the skills affected by and contributing to the power creep and downsize them ruining both gimmick and quite a few balanced builds in the process. Red or blue which pill do you want? Weaponmaster 01:48, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The power creep has forced a + health of up to 100 health on runes.It has been pushing fun skills out of the meta and has replaced them with gay non skillres skills.Gimmicks are ok to have fun once.But if they are OP they become the meta and thats when problems arise.I mean shure people will whine if you nerf all their stuff in the beginning but good people will come back and the bad people will actually have to get better to make progress towards a rank more quickly.Not that titles weren't a bad idea to start with and they mean something at all Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  06:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Planeshift's Proposal:
I think that buff is just enough : removing disable or reducing reload would be too much, imo. Planeshift 19:05, 6 June 2009 (UTC)