User talk:Great Darkwolf/ArchiveSpecial1

Blanking talk pages
Blanking talk pages is not allowed, you need to archive. Also we dont' censor talk pages, as your removal of items on Gaile's suggestion page was seeming to do.-- Wynthyst 14:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I dont know about you, but I dont like to read vented anger on a wiki page. The talk I removed was just a user yelling at people. --Wolf 14:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Which means that you also need to archive this aswell. -- Silent Storm  [[Image: User SilentStorm MySig.png|19px]] 14:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I understand your feelings about the stuff on Gaile's page, however, it's up to her to archive it. The fact that you posted a wall of text when it clearly says suggestions should be kept short and to the point with links to any longer explanations setting off the rant is yours to own. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wynthyst 15:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, on another note, is it realy nessicary for me to achive my own talk? Just wondering if there is a reason everything should be kept. --Wolf 19:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes every comment has to be kept/archived even your own. One reason that you have to keep your own is that if removed it could make other comments make no sense since they are replying to something that is no longer there. -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 19:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, please do not bring back my == Test == thing, like the name implies, that was a test, I'm still rather new here in figuring out how to do somethings, so.... Yeah, please don't restore that. --Wolf 19:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

User page size
Just a heads up, your user pages is twice the size allowed by user page policy. I would suggest that your character information be moved to subpages, keeping the more general information on the mainpage, or remove some of the images. -- Wynthyst 13:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Why are my builds not working on my user page? --Wolf 13:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You aren't using the skill bar template, you are just writing characters, so that's what's showing up.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wynthyst 13:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it used to work. Thanks, gotta get this workin now. --Wolf 13:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyright
Hi, make sure your images follow the copyright rules -- we can only accept GFDL or ArenaNet images. -- Brains12 \ talk 15:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Which Image(s) are in question? --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 15:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would guess Image:User Great Darkwolf Agro Control.jpg, after looking at Recent Changes. Anything else? -- Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 15:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:User Great Darkwolf Agro Control.jpg specifically, but there might be a few more that you've uploaded -- for example, Image:Wolves.jpg seems unlikely to be GFDL, as do Image:Demon Hunter.jpg and Image:Under Construction Sign.gif.
 * While I'm here, make sure you follow the naming convention for user images too. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, my user Icon. I had something similar for a VERY long time that I made myself, but then Halo 3 can out with the parts for me to re-assemble it in a much cleaner fassion. On the Argo Control Image, A friend of mine made that for me. Well, considering it does have the Pirates of the Carribian in it, I should probably re-work it wiht a different image. But then again, Regina has a Metraoid for her user pic. Also, the Error 007 User Box uses copy-writen material --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 15:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Working on fixing naming atm. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 16:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Image names fixed --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 16:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently the Vista icon isn't actually a Windows icon, but it was created by someone to use here. Regina's sig image is the same. Not sure about the Error 007 userbox, but still -- that doesn't mean the Agro image shouldn't be deleted. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so here is my input... The copyvios are: About the Vista icon, just because it has a name of a copyrighted OS doesn't make it a Microsoft image, and thus not under the GFDL. The image was self-made. Same goes for Regina's sig icon. About the Error 007 image, it looks to me that it's a copyvio.
 * Image:User Great Darkwolf Agro Control.jpg - Uses content from of the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' series of films
 * Image:Wolves.jpg - Seems to use content from here. There is no copyright notice on the website linked, but I'll try to find the original source/licence
 * Image:Demon Hunter.jpg - Source - Author claims that it was made using images from Google, so I really doubt it's GFDL.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. --  Indochine  talk 17:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * * On the Windows Icon, I thought I had seen it somewhere in vista, but I dont use it, so I could easily be wrong.
 * * On the Wolves, I don't know the source, was given to me by a another friend. Was ment as a place holder until I could get a suitable pic from Guild Wars
 * * On the Demon Hunter icon, I got that from their own site a long time ago
 * * On the Metroid, the fact that it was made by a user still does not change the fact that it depicts material that is copy-writen. While the image itself may not be copy-writen, the material in it is.
 * * On the Pirates pic, same deal as the Metroid, almost. The friend who made that for me owns the DvD that it came from (as do I) and used a simple Pause + Print Scrn to optian it. that image it's self is not copy-writen, that material it contains however, is.
 * * On the Err 007, could very well be the same case as the Metroid.
 * I'm fairly certian that if I made a version of the Demon Hunter symbol myself, it would still constitute as a copyright violation, as it still contains copy-writen material, just like the matroid. I'm sure Nintendo could consider that a copyright vio if they wanted to. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 17:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact you own Pirates of the Caribbean does not mean you can use material from it on a GFDL site, you can't. The Demon Hunter image is also copyrighted so again, not GDFL. Basically, unless it's an image you drew/created not using copyrighted material yourself, or has been released under the GDFL license, is part of Public Domain, or is Anet copyright, it cannot be used on this site.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 17:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well then, The Error 007 user box needs to be removed, and so would Regina's Metroid User Icon. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 17:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This pretty much falls into the fair use policy that we all want, but A.Net won't give is. Theres a low chance there GFDL anyways. Dominator Matrix  17:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel I have to point out that using the argument that "Someone else is apparently breaking the rules, so that means I can too" is wrong. You cannot control what someone else does, only what you do, and you have been asked to change your images based on our current copyright policy. You have been given all the valid reasons why this request is reasonable, so be reasonable in return. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 17:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm working on finding something to replace the two images in my user box, and Argo Control is getting a change shortly. I just found it odd that I'm now running into trouble for roughly the same thing as some other stuff out there that has been fine for quite some time. I wasn't trying to get myself out of anything. Someone felt the need to point out that I was breaking regs. I was not aware of those regs at the time, but I am now (that does not excuse it either). Now that I am aware of the regs, and I don't think it would be too unreasonable for me to bring some other potential breaches in policy to light. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 17:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And as a member of this community, you are welcome to point out those breaches to the users.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 17:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My two offending user boxes have been changed. The Agro Control Image is getting worked on right now. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 18:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agro Control has been fixed now too. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 18:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what makes the wiki go round. You violate a rule, someone points it out, it gets fixed, and you proceed to point out other violations. I like to call it a game of tag; there's unsigned tag, copyvio tag, and so on. The only trouble is when people don't play. Also, it is just astounding how Regina's sig is brought up so often in copyvio discussions, but no one's called her on it. -- Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 18:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to say thanks for cooperating in removing the copyrighted content. I hope understand why this is necessary. --  Indochine  talk 18:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Signature
Your current sig breaks the GWW:SIGN policy. Unless you create a user account named "User:Wolf" and make both that user's page and talk page redirect to your page and talk, you aren't allowed to use a shorter name in your sig than your actual user name. &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 16:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been made by someone else. Has there been any activity on that account? Plenty of times on plenty of sides I have not been able to get my desired user name mainly bc someone had made an account under that name and then done nothing with it. Often something as generic as Fox, Wolf or Raven and the like will be made by default be servers and such and will be unavailable for use of actual users. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 16:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything about any "locked" usernames. Well, but this account was seemingly never active. Possibly you could ask someone then whether you could get permission to continue using your current sig. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 16:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Who would I have to ask? --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 17:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the question :P One of the sysops or bcrats i suppose. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 17:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll ask Gaile, Infact, I should probably point this whole discussion her way, and see what kinda light she can shed on it. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 17:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Discussion above this one too* --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 17:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Zerpha, I have to disagree with you. Unless the user in question is intentionally trying to impersonate another user, there is nothing in GWW:SIGN that disallows the shortening of the name. His signature links properly to his user page. Before you ask, I DO have Wyn as a registered user name that is all redirected to User:Wynthyst.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 17:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a wiki issue and not a Guild Wars issue, so it doesn't need to go to Gaile. We can sort this stuff out ourselves. My personal stance on your signature is that if User:Wolf uses his account, you should change it. As for the copyright issues, we get this sort of thing often so it can be resolved by the wiki users. Also, as Wyn says, registering the alternate account is not necessary anymore. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 17:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, sorry all for the disturbance then. (Btw Win, i noticed you created User:Wyn; that was the reason why this came to my mind :P) &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 17:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I did it because everyone just calls me Wyn, and I wanted to make sure no one else took the name.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 17:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My tag is also Wolf b/c thats what everyone calls me. (same deal) even on forums with over 100,000 users, it has never caused any problems for me to go by Wolf even if my account name says differently. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 18:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Trouble? Copyright vios? Maybe
Regina, I just got busted on it a little bit ago (didn't know some of the rules around here >.<) but I think your Metroid pic could very well be a copy-right vio. I'm not official in anyway way, so it's not like I can do anything or will, but I just thought I would yet ya know. If you think action needs to be taken, then I'll leave it to you. --Wolf  18:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This was brought up before, but from what I understood, fan-created art was okay (it was created for me by a wiki user). I looked through the image guidelines and I couldn't find anything specifically relating to this. Wiki veterans: if this is against the rules, let me know, and I'll find another sig image to use. =) -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User Regina Buenaobra sig.png]] 18:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * From what I'm gathering, even being fan made, if it contains copy-writen material, it cannont be posted. I had a funny pic on my user page that a friend of mine had made for me a while ago, but it contains a pic from Pirates of the Carribian, and was considered to be a against policy here on the wiki, so I had to take it down >.< --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 18:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That's because the pic was actually taken directly from the movie and then other things added to it, unlike Regina's sig icon which is entirely handmade. If your friend had made a sketch of Jack Sparrow running away from other sketched figures, that would be perfectly acceptable, but he didn't. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 18:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem comes when they are made out from original copyrighted material, so if the Metroid cell was made from a copyrighted original picture of a Matroid cell there would be trouble, but if it was a fan-made draw made to look like like a Metroid cell it won't be so much of a trouble. For a Pirates of the Caribbean picture, it would be 'legal' if it were your friend disguised as a pirate. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 18:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The other two hand-drawn cases I remember are that Piplup and Super Igor's last sig icon. Nobody likes troll pictures, of course, especially ones that are just handmade to avoid GWW:COPY. Igor's was the Superman icon. Not sure how I can make this relevant, just thought I'd bring up recent specific cases. -- Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 18:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Both of those were essentially carbon-copies, to the point where they couldn't really be considered original artwork. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 18:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So, If I hand-drew an outline of the batman symbol, scanned it, and photo shopped it so the outline was solid black instead of pencil color, and the used it on the wiki woudl that be a copy-right violation? --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 18:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, because that's still essentially a carbon-copy of a well-known and well-defined symbol owned by a particular franchise's IP. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 18:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It must have the very same vector and be used in a contet that makes sure it's a Batman logo. Just a bat won't do. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 18:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The whole goal of the pirates picture was not for it to be pirates and jack sparrow, it was supposed to just be a person running from a lot of enemies. Also Aiiane, by that same reasoning, that would make Regina's metroid a violation. There is no decernable difference between it and one from the game. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 18:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, not exactly. *puts Metroid nerd hat on* Metroids in the games generally have green goo surrounding the central nuclei, unless they're angry -- then they're red. The clearest shot of a metroid with blue goo surrounding the nuclei is in a picture of concept art from Super Metroid (1994). But it's still not exactly the same, because it's mostly clear with a blue outline. Unlike the sig image, which is filled-in blue. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User Regina Buenaobra sig.png]] 19:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

BAH! Copy-right laws, second in complicity complexity only to Quantum Physics. --Wolf  19:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Question; Is this about copyright laws or the wiki's copyright policy?-- Dunyas [[Image:User_Dunyas_sig.png]] 19:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure both. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 19:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason I ask is because it sounds to me like your image was fine, at least under U.S. copyright law. It would have fallen under fair use, being a parody and only a frame or two from a movie. But if the wiki policy says thats not okay, then it would have had to go. I was just wondering if the wiki has a page on the policy so I can take a look at it so I can avoid a violation.-- Dunyas [[Image:User_Dunyas_sig.png]] 19:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars Wiki:Copyrighted content and Guild Wars Wiki:Copyrights. If I recall correctly, it's because our license doesn't work with Fair use. -- Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 19:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Complexity. :awesome: Complicity is "the state of being an accomplice; partnership or involvement in wrongdoing: complicity in a crime." Dictionary.com is my best friend. Besides, you know, humans. And Guild Wars. And GWW. The policy is there to avoid law problems, so the latter facilitates the former. -- Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 19:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, whoops, when you have a rather large vocabulary, words tend to mix around inside your head and make you think of the wrong one >.< --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 19:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * copyright laws suck D: --Anorith [[Image:User Anorith Grenths Grasp.jpg|19px]] Talk 19:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm just going to hit this on a case-by-case basis. Is there anything wrong with this?

Note: I made the image myself and spent a fair amount of time in paint to do so. --Wolf  19:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Aside from the fact that it's an exact tracing of the design here? (Or posted on-wiki and CfD at Image:Demon_Hunter.jpg?) [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 19:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the goal IS for it too look like the actual symbol, or there is no point in having it. It's the main Identifier for the band. If it looked different enough it would no-longer retain it's meaning. It would be like making the superman S in a square. And it's not an exact trace, It's mostly hand done. I couldn;t get the shape and possitioning of the eyes right tho. Also, you have no idea how much I have drawn that by hand. I can get it almost exact (except for the eyes) pretty much every time. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 19:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Somehow, I have a hard time believing that you did that mostly by hand. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Drawn it easily over 10,000 times. It's not that hard when your looking at it and it's been laser etched in the back of your brain for around 6 years. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 20:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When the sizes match to the pixel level? I didn't scale your image at all when overlaying it there, and yet everything is exactly the same size. Even the best of artists can't get that exact a copy without tracing - they can get the ratios, the angles, the flow, but without copying you're going to get some at least minor variations. Even the flaws match on edges. Sorry, but that's just pure BS. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When your working in paint.net it's very easy. I skteched out as detailed an outline as I can by hand, and sat there and took the pencil and pixel by pixel worked it as close as I could tell to the original,and smoothed out the edges along the way, measure out some dimensions on the pixel level, draw a bunch of marking lines, ect. when your zoomed in to about 100x100 pixel rez filling a 1440x900 screen, its easy to get down and dirty with the details. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 20:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps knowing my motive behind this would help. I was going to later on do a different image and work in something more artistic than a basic outline on black and white, but what would be the point if I'm not going to be able to use it? It's not that I want to use a specific image, it's that I want an image with that specific symbol in it --Wolf  20:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "and pixel by pixel worked it as close as I could tell to the original", "measure out some dimensions on the pixel level" You're essentially describing the process of making a tracing of an image. Whether or not you actually had the image underneath the one you were creating isn't the question, it's whether you're trying to imitate the actual image, or the thing the image depicts. In this case, you're trying to imitate the actual image, hence, it's a tracing. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if it wasn't atleast an imitation of the original, it would retain the meaning behind it, and would thus be worthless for the purpse I have instore for it. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 20:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me stamp out a big misconception here. Drawn by hand does not make things any different.  It can still be a copyright violation.  The thing is that lots of sig images here (even if it is taking the same picture and resizing it) are derivative works of a copyrighted work.  However, fair use for a forum-like image is pretty well in effect.  IOW, you are wasting your time squabbling about copyright violations for couple-pixel images.  The only problem I would have with Regina's sig, and this is more of an ANet decision than this wiki's, is that she is here in her official capacity working as an employee of ANet using a Nintendo trademark.  But, let's not clog up Regina's page with that discussion, she can talk to company lawyers about that if she wants. --Ravious 20:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

So, I guess someone decided we would do this on my talk page now. Thats cool. I probably should have brought it here a while ago >.< --Wolf  20:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * May want to note, in any case, that the wiki doesn't allow content under the Fair Use act, only content released under the GFDL or a compatible license. As such, derivated work based on something whose character design is protected would still be in breach (ie. "carbon copies").--Fighterdoken 20:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well you better go in a witch-hunt then if Fair Use derivative works cannot be used for signatures. --Ravious 20:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Along the lines of what Ravious is saying, Nintendo could sue Anet for Regina using a Metroid. Heck, if I wanted to use the Demon Hunter symbol 100% legit here, I would have to make something pretty different, but it would still look enough like a Demon Hunter trademark for them to sue. Deriving something of a trademark does not clear it of being a trade mark. But would Nintendo or Demon Hunter sue? Nope! I sinceraly doubt Nintendo would see anything wrong with Regina sporting a Metroid and hench forth making a statement that she loves Metroid and possibly Nintendo too. I sincerly doubt Demon Hunter (having met the band and been fortunate to have talked with them a decent amount more than a lot of people can say) would mind, and can confidently say they would not sue ofer the use of one of their trademarks in association with themselves and me being a fan of theirs. It's not like I'm claiming I created the Demon Hunter symbol or anything. When it all comes down to it, there are plenty of people that have used the wiki to express some outside GW interests through user boxes and sig pics, and no harm has ceom from it thus far. If you wanna cut out anything in the wiki that has been used under fair use, you've got one heck of a job ahead of you. --Wolf  20:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The likelihood of being caught or prosecuted doesn't have an effect on our copyright policies -- it's either compatible or not. Don't bother wikilawyering around that. And actually, I think the amount of things being claimed under Fair Use here is extremely low -- we don't have our jobs cut out in that respect. Nevertheless, even if there were a lot of images claiming Fair Use, that wouldn't mean we would leave them be. That also doesn't affect your images -- whether or not someone else is doing wrong doesn't mean you can do wrong too. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * phhhhh my little agro control banner is up under fair use. I didn't actauly make it, a friend of mine did, fair use. And, you would have one heck of a job cut out for you in the fact that it would cause a mess if you did decide to crack down on all the stuff out there that is being used under fair use. I'm about to be extremely blunt here. I think the lack of being able to use things under fair use is a total load of BS. I could grab a small pic of a yellow block with some diagonal black strips across it that I pulled out a web-making kit out there under fair use, and not be able to use it, when if I made it myself, would look just the same, and would thus fall under fair use. But w/e, thats just me being a little pissed off. But in all due seriousness, what IS Anet's reasoning behind not allowing things under fair use? --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 21:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The main difference here is that depictions of logos aren't really subject to artistic interpretation, whereas depictions of objects (whether game objects or real-life objects) are. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 21:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Lies. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 21:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would not consider the image you linked to be a copyright violation (if it were by an independent artist - in this case, it's an album cover, so it'd still be in that category). So no, not lies. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 21:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, note that trademark and copyright are totally different things. Trademarks are also mostly irrelevant here, as they are applied to the use of a symbol or name or whatever in a particular trade. --Star Weaver 21:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably 99% of all trademarks are also copy-writen --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 21:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As I just said, we don't have a lot of Fair Use images on the wiki, and even if we did, large-scale projects aren't beyond us. This is Emily's response towards Fair Use on the wiki. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Had you not brought this issue up trolling through recent changes there would have likely been no drama at all. Actively chasing out pple who commit harmless violations of policy pushes people away from the wiki and creates more and more wikidrama every time. Please try to think about how your actions are going to affect the wiki when you go out trolling for policy violations which no-one has had an issue with over. Had you not made an issue of this users images or names it would be unreasonable to think any trouble would have come to anyone because of it. Just because you have too much free time doesn't mean you should use it to harass people for doing things which aren't hurting anyone - and no-one but you care about. 122.104.165.13 21:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call the deal with my name harassing. It was a valid point and I am taking steps twrads taking care of it. However, I'm taking my time on that since the User Account that my tag seems to conflict with has yet to contribute, and has existed mostlikely since the official wiki was created --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 21:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We have rules on this wiki and in this case, it's a legal rule set up by ArenaNet. It's not my place to allow a violation; it's my place, as a wiki user and a sysop, to let a fellow user know when he is violating a copyright policy. That's not trolling, nor is it disruptive. If Great Darkwolf followed the copyright policy (whether it is from the beginning or after being notified of it -- we don't expect every user to be knowledgeable on the policy, which is why we notify people), we would not have this drama in the first place -- pardon the cliché, but it's not my fault. As I said before, regarding whether other people care about it (which, by the way, is fallacious logic) -- a violation is a violation; and a violation of copyright is more serious than another policy which could have grey areas. We have rules on copyright, and it's everyone's place to follow them. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, I don't know why the issue of my spare time was brought into this discussion, but it's certainly not relevant or appropriate. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Archiving
Heya Wolf, I'm not trying to get on your case, but archiving an ongoing discussion is not really productive. Normally you should wait at least a week after the last post unless it is in some way a violation of NPA. The copyright discussion is not going to go away just because you put it in an archive.

Also, I want you to know that we ALL make mistakes, and copyright mistakes are the most frequent of all policy violations (other than trolling NPA violations). It's not something you need to be embarrassed about. The common perception is that if you find it someplace on the internet you can use it, or that 'Fair Use' applies. The fact is that Anet has absolutely said NO to any Fair Use images, or any images that aren't absolutely user created or Anet copyrighted. -- Wyn 00:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, duely noted on both subjects. I archived the discussion b/c I just wanted it out of the way, not to end it. Its not all gunna come back on the front of my talk-page, but I'll link to it in a non-archival way. I do actualy check my archives once a day or every other day. It helps that there isnt much in it XD --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 00:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we're only allowed to have one image in our signature. :( Both look great, but unfortunately you're going to have to choose only one to be fair to others. :( Kokuou 21:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * AH! Thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to decide which one too keep momentarily. -- [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg|19px| ]] 21:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I took care of it, sorry about that. --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 21:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice, I like it! :D (Now the matter of deciding on my own sig image... sigh.) Kokuou 22:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, nice. good luck, and I hope it's a good one! =D --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 23:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * >.< Uhm yeah, one last thing: The sig image may not be bigger than 19x19px. Otherwise the textlines are broadened. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 23:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is 19x19px >.< --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 00:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, displaying bug seemingly. Sorry, should have taken a look at your sig's coding :P &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 00:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's all good --Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 00:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Paybacks are a biotch.....
Your userpage is twice as big as is allowed by policy. -- Wyn 03:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it warn me if it was over 32Kb? -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 03:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Must be all my user boxes >.< Good Lord, looks like it's going under construction AGAIN! :P -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 03:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Might want to check those "rit" skill while yer at it. Backsword 03:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh God! Can't believe I missed that! Thanks for the heads up! -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 03:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The size allowed by policy is 300k, not 32Kb :D --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That must be a talk page thing then :P Still a wikinoob XD -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 04:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the software wills start warning you at 32Kb that your page may be difficult for some browsers to load whether it's a talk page or an article, but the userpage policy restricts user mainpage to 300k because it's the main portal to your talk page, i.e. if someone wants to leave you a message, often times they will be clicking on your signature. On that note, you should redirect your sig image to your talk page if you haven't already :D --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, my sig image points to my talk. -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 04:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I realized that after I typed it :D--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, long day for you too? -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 04:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * When ya have a min, would you mind giving everything a good once-over to make sure all is now fine and good? -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 05:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Images
Are we allowed to use images from Wikipedia? -- Wolf  04:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Per our Copyright policy we can use anything that has been released to Public Domain, under GFDL, Creative Commons, or has copyright held by ArenaNet (screenshots, concept art).--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 05:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)