Talk:Shielding Hands

Note to all 55s/105s who use this skill as a means of indefinate survivability => it does not work sometimes. For whatever reason if you are getting attacked by a large sum of enemies, the spell casts fine, but the effect isnt registered, and you still get hit as normal. Would appreciate it if someone who knew what they were doing added this into the bug list.
 * not bugged,if you cast this before PS its normal u dnt get 0dmg..activates before PS reduces to 5..game mechanics :) 78.20.153.111 22:06, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed it is bugged, It works sometimes for the first 3 seconds or so of shielding hands, but if there is too much aggro then it overloads the game I believe, cause it just stops working for no reason.
 * yes bugged u said "activates before PS reduces to 5..game mechanics" i run a 85 hp monk, instead of 8 (10% of 85) being reduced to 0, it reduces it to 3 dmg and i die regardless of casting order.
 * Confirmed, I started noticing this a month or two ago, but I even thought it could be some sort of hex I'd be suffering from or something like it. Checked every hex, condition and enchantment I was under the whole time, and none indicated any sort of "take extra damage" or something. It looks to me Shielding Hands acts as a damage buffer that once it gets filled, loses its effect, since no matter how many are attacking me, I sometimes get it if most foes die in the meantime. Something like being struck by 10 or so Corsairs, and this start happening when they're all dead and only 2 or 3 Bosuns live. KazDoran 22:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay I think I finally figured out whats going on. It's a glitch but it's fairly easy to avoid. If you cast protective spirit and then shielding hands, and then PS again by accident or something, even though it refreshes the enchantment, shielding hands is still technically casted 'before' that refreshment, and thus as soon as the first PS would have run out, then sh starts reducing the damage BEFORE PS reduces it. Pretty dumb system, but if your alert and paying attention it should be fine. I think they need to fix it so that as long as you cast PS before SH, then no matter how many times you refresh each one it should stay that PS registers before SH.

The Starter Skill trainer for Factions does not have this skill (at least for me - Prof character
 * This is the same for me. Zhao Di doesn't have this skill. Katorone 18:47, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * However... The one in Yohlon Haven has (Medando) Katorone 23:29, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

August 6, 2009 Update
Is a little delayed healing really going to encourage monks to use this skill more? The recharge hurts and shield of absorption is just so much better unless you aren't getting hit much, but in that case they both suck. 66.41.46.226 05:40, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've actually always preferred this skill over Shield of Absorption for general PvE use. The cast time means that I can throw this skill instantly on any target under fire, and not be concerned about interrupts. Outside of farming, you're not likely to get a target that's being hit on a frequent enough basis for SoA to really shine, so getting off PS+SH in under one second is usually more than enough to save whoever's getting the beating from enemies. The extra healing at the end is just icing on the cake for me. - Zaxares 07:30, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Ive only just noticed this--Hubbard The Dervish 07:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Does the end effect heal trigger if Shielding Hands is removed before the end of its duration? --Silver Edge 22:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Related to Healing Hands
Other then the name: they both trigger on hits, the one heals, the other reduces damage. think they are quite related. also what about mark of prot? doesnt it look a bit like these 2 skills? Mark of Prot just BOTH reduces damage AND heals.
 * nope, healing is different from protection... if you want to link all the skills that happen on hit you would have a very long and varied list. the ones listed are very closely related to the on end heal or the reduce damage enchantments... MrPaladin talk 14:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Healing Hands is a better fit than Patient Spirit. HH and SH both heal on each hit (technically SH prots, but for most practical purposes it's the same as getting a ~10-15 pt heal per hit), while Patient Spirit only heals at the end. -- Hong 14:49, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Uhm did mrpaladin just say two skills of diffrent atributes cant be related? No.
 * Nope, to clarify what I was saying is that related skills are ment to be more similar then "here are two skills that do something on hit" there are several relate in this very skill that I do not have a problem with... they are enchantments that reduce damage on hit... much more then healing hands which heals on hit... while its a good skill its not related enough to note... MrPaladin talk 20:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * IRT hong: Patient spirit fits because of healing hands second effect that it heals when it ends... Patient spirit is the only other enchantment spell I can think of that also heals on end... so it fits... now if we are looking for a skill that is an enchantment spell that reduces damage and heals on end, there is only one skill that does that and this is it! MrPaladin talk 20:35, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's absolutely terrible logic. Let's step back from minutia and look what the skills do - SH is a prot. People bring it to mitigate damage. Patient Spirit is a heal. People bring it to... oh right, heal.
 * The whole point of a related skills section is to give someone an idea of more skills that do relatively the same thing, not to list every skill that has remotely related mechanics. You might as well put orison of healing down under related if you think patient has anything to do with shielding hands. - Auron 14:09, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Your post actually reminded me of the discussion we had years ago on GuildWiki about related skills. Some guy wanted to list "flail" as related to "shield stance" because they both caused you to move slower. That similarity, however, is totally meaningless - nobody is looking for another way to snare themselves. It's the same here. SH is a prot - nobody brings it for a 50 HP heal after 8 seconds on a 15 second cooldown, so people aren't going to be looking for things that are similar. They're going to be looking for skills that mitigate damage. Patient Spirit does not. Thusly, patient spirit doesn't belong on the list.
 * P.S. I have no problem with stoneflesh being on there. It does the same thing as SH, it's just a much less viable skill (it's in a bad attribute, takes forever to cast, and targets only self, but it's still the same usage and mechanic). - Auron 14:15, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) I understand your point... check history at the list of skills I stripped it down from... I kept only those that were enchantments that reduced damage or enchantments that healed on expire... both types that I would say are related to these skill... FYI, for skills that were removed from relate... you may want to check the related skills from their respective pages... Also it is difficult to make assumptions on what aspect of the skill someone is trying to relate to... while your flail example is a good one for a bad relate and I do know SH is not taken solely for its healing, it however does heal on expire... MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 14:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Clearly you don't, PS is a delayed heal while shielding is a prot that reduce damage. I'd rather have healing hands as related and both are allied enchants that basically reduce damage. Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 14:40, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ohh I am sorry the italics made it better... I was using http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Wiki:Formatting/Skills#Related_skills as a guide... MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 14:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That is a guideline, not a policy, and it is bad and out of date. It seems to suggest that Mark of Rodgort should be related to Rodgort's Invocation and Teinai's Prison to Teinai's Wind and Crystals. The Mark of Rodgort related skill is still up, the others are not. If you start relating skills on a purely mechanical basis you end up with some ridiculous relationships. All interrupts become related to each other. All "effect on end" hexes end up related. All "effect on cast hexes" become related. Shatterstone and Web of Disruption are mechanically similar, one does damage, one interrupts, on cast and on removal. Are they related in a useful way? Not at all. The related skill section should be actually useful. I admit that Shielding Hands and Stoneflesh Aura are related in a farming sense (55 monk vs 330 elementalist), but that is a very niche use of Shielding Hands (and horrificly outdated) and Shield of Absorption is used more often for its infinite uptime. I don't have a huge problem with Stoneflesh Aura being restored, but Armor of Sanctity cannot function in that way (always triggers before Protective Spirit) and Patient Spirit is almost completely unrelated. By the way, Vital Boon also heals on end, completely unrelated. Blood Renewal also heals on end, likewise, unrelated. I think the lore type relations should be moved to trivia as they are trivial in nature, but that is something for the formatting guideline I guess. Misery  15:17, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ironically Healing Hands is more closely related than any skill you are proposing, but it's terrible and can only be used to pre-prot due to cast time, so I'm not going to fight for that to be in the related skills section. Misery  15:18, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I am sorry Misery, but people here don't have a mind of their own to choose when or not to blindly follow outdated guidelines, so I expect to see some people insist on reverting. Pika Fan 15:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this was handled properly... there were reverts... talk page was used... rules looked over... if the guideline is wrong get it fixed... everyones happy... we eat some sugar items and get our titles and its all good... MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 15:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * IRT formatting Guideline not being policy... this quote deom the policy page "Guidelines fulfill the role of establishing conventions." MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 16:49, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Still doesn't mean that they are policy. We get to override them when we feel (as a group) that it would be better for the wiki to do so. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 17:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Guideline change seems fine... its apparent now that nothing in that guideline is accurate and related skills is stripped down duplicate skills or near direct replacement skills... taking a quick look around the wiki at some of the skills it seems that they do not fit this 'groups' idea of related skills and I'll let you guys clear em up... I think the only reason this skill is a problem with its related skills choices is it is a part of many favored builds and people are getting sensitive to that instead of thinking about new guildwars players who are needing a leg up on their learning curve and could benifit to being pointed to skills such as Patient Spirit and even the other enchants that heal on end would be fine with me... I see no loss to the wiki by having them in and I so not see that it would cause wiki users any harm... I'll talk to Miserys examples above then I have time MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 11:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a difference between "use patient spirit, it's good" and "use patient spirit, it acts a lot like shielding hands." The latter is simply not true. Guide to playing as a Monk is for the former. - Auron 12:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I was gonna reply here but Miserys talk on the proposed guideline change is good "Category:Skill type quick references" would solve the problems here while still allowing new gamers to quickly relate skills of similar nature. MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 15:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think you understand. A skill is either similar to another skill or it isn't. The newness of a player has nothing to do with the similarity of the skill. Patient spirit is never going to be similar to Shielding hands, for all the reasons I've already provided (one is a heal, one is a prot). It's not an issue of "allowing new gamers to quickly relate skills of similar nature," it's an issue of patient spirit being completely unrelated to shielding hands, end of story.
 * Like I said, if you want to tell new players that patient spirit is an awesome skill, there are places to do so (like in the guide on how to monk). The related skills section of Shielding Hands is not the place to do it. - Auron 23:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

(reset indent) Emotions have nothing to do with it... I don't care about patient spirit... I only see a skill that is also an enchant that heals on end, nothing more (As Mis said I'd also be fine adding other enchants that heal on end like Vital Boon)... the skills have similar effect and relate to other enchants that heal on end... Per the current guideline they relate so the current guideline is getting looked into... kthx MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 18:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If we listed every little minuscule thing each skill had in common with another skill, each page would have 200 related skills. Shielding Hands and Patient Spirit have two completely different uses. If you're using patient spirit to prot, or shielding hands to heal, urdoinitwrong. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 18:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok lets go similiar skills: Shielding Hands, Vital Boon, Shadow Refuge, Balthazar's Rage, Faithful Intervention, Illusion of Weakness, Patient Spirit, Watchful Healing, Watchful Spirit and Blood Renewal - All provide heals when their enchantment ends (some by special needs), are they all related then? --Frosty  [[Image:User Frosty Frostcharge sig.jpg|19px]] 18:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Forget the ones that don't have the same end condition as this skill then yes, by the current guideline.... MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 18:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't forget about defy pain, soa, union, stoneflesh aura, mark of protection, and armor of sanctity. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 19:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hyperbole... Only Enchantments that protect... hense why Stone Flesh and Armor of Sanct were already shown in the related prior to reverts... but again, and I'll make it more noticable this time because I have repeated it a few times now... The Guidleline is under review for a change so that the related section does not get slammed with skills that are related but not used for the same purpose by use of See Also type categorys... I will not be reverting or making edits until the talk for the guideline has ended... I still see benifit in relating several skills mentioned above for the purposes mentioned above MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 11:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * [| Linky to the Discussion on Guideline change] MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 11:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Still glitched for me
I was just testing out a build from PvXwiki that uses this skill against a large group of enemies, and of course it worked fine a few times when I cast PS -> SH, but other times it either doesn't do anything or it cuts out while still active, all the times being cast in the order of PS -> SH.--AP-DarkPortal 19:06, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You must cast PS before hands EVERY TIME and not just hands. X treme 12:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Vamp Weapon Bug?
Seems that this does NOT prevent the -3 or -5 life steal of a vampiric weapon. Is "Life Draning" as it's now called not considered life steal for some crazy reason? --Seventh 21:09, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, they're separate effects and skills like this do not protect against vampiric weapons. See here. • • • Mora  21:16, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, darn, that makes this skill far worse than I thought it would be after they buffed it. --Seventh 21:19, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If this wasn't the case Life Sheath, Union, Reversal of Fortune, and some other skills would be quite negatively impacted. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 22:22, 8 June 2011 (UTC)