ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Monk/Withdraw Hexes

Armond's Issue 01:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Issue: As part of the "buff hex removal" campaign, I propose a "wide hex removal". For those unfamiliar with the term, it's a hex removal that removes hexes from many party members at once, but not many at a time.


 * Suggestion: Change functionality to "All party members within earshot lose 1 hex." This skill should scale so that it removes 2 hexes at 15 or 16 Divine Favor.

Discussion

I really want to leave the current rate and options for hex removal alone, until hexes become a more viable option as it stands right now they are just unused. Izzy @  -' 01:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

A. von Rin's Suggestion

 * Issue: Although Izzy doesn't think this skill should be buffed, I agree with Armond. It is terribly under powered and there is no good reason to let it in it's current form. The reason posted above is not a good one, tbh. This could become an Anti-Hex version of Martyr, which would be nice balanced by it's own effect and could be usefull! Now it isn't because even non-elite hex removal is better than this one.


 * Suggestion: Change functionality to: "Elite Spell. Transfer all Hexes and their remaining durations from your allies to you. For each Hex acquired in this way, you gain 0...2...2 Energy." *15 Energy /	*1 Activation time / 20 Recharge time.

Underused skill

 * Issue
 * Same as above. This skill is too underused because of a lack of hexes, it's high energy cost and high recharge (when it's used effectively), as well as it's small AoE, making it an awkward skill.


 * Suggestion
 * I agree with Izzy that buffing hex removal is not really a good idea, since the whole reason this isn't used is that conditions are favoured over hexes (imagine a game where conditions weren't popular - who would take RC then?). To make this viable, you kinda need to buff hexes. However, other than that I would suggest a change something like this:
 * 10 1  5
 * Elite Spell. Remove up to Hexes from target ally and  hexes from all nearby allies. This Spell takes an additional  seconds to recharge for each Hex removed in this and each ally cured of one or more hexes.
 * Now this still won't be used much unless hexes become more popular, but it should still be at least a bit more useful. A lower cost makes it more viable for an energy-strained monk, and a lower recharge prevents all the hexes being stacked back up on your team by the time you can use it again. The larger area makes it much more useful in a situation where your allies are all over the place, as good teams tend not to stand in adjacent-ranged clumps (AoE damage says hello).
 * So as to stop it being imbalanced, I also suggest limiting the number of hexes. Making the disabled duration increase per person as well as per hex also allows the recharge to be lower but prevents it from getting out of hand. This means that you can remove a stack of hexes very effectly from a single target (e.g. remove 6 and you get a recharge of 5 + 3 + 3 * 6 = 27), whereas removal with Remove Hex (the fastest non-elite hex-remover) would take 8 * 6 = 48 seconds, 30 and more casting time to do this.
 * However, if you remove hexes from your whole team, for example 12 hexes spread across 4 people (consider Suffering, Meekness et c. will hit multiple people), you get a recharge of 5 + 3 * 4 + 3 * 12 = 53. Now that's a lot, but bear in mind that Remove Hex would take 8 * 12 = 96, not to mention the 60 (although, of course, that's not a fair comparison, but still).
 * So, overall, you can use it for mass hex removal but against hex-heavy teams in PvP you will suffer in between uses (but it gives you a window in which to recover). However, it would now be useful for single-target hex stacks, and perhaps removing AoE snares, for example against SH teams (though with a recharge of about half a minute or more, you'd have to limit it to emergencies). Consider then that firstly it has quite a low energy cost and then that there aren't really many other AoE hex removers (Hex Eater Signet and that's about it) so it has utility that nothing else does, and it might find a use somewhere.


 * Wall of text I don't feel like reading. End line is, your idea has the same problem the skill has now - which is to say, the moment you run up against hexway, you use this once and watch it recharge for the entire match. (That's a bit of an exaggeration, but you can easily get a recharge of 45 seconds or even a minute against a decent hexway team.)
 * The other thing is that conditions are focused around being easy to apply, but easy to remove, and hexes are balanced around being harder to apply and harder to remove, with the additional benefit of being more powerful than conditions (due in no small part to the fact that they're harder to remove - it's like how weapon spells are more powerful than enchantments in that respect). That's all well and good - though I'd argue that hexes don't need stronger effects than conditions as they're balanced by being harder to remove - except when hexes become as easy to apply as conditions and yet the rate at which they're removed isn't increased. Then you've got nasty things like Migraine, Spiteful Spirit, Price of Failure, and what have you sticking around simply because your monks are overloaded by the sheer number of hexes thrown at them (and, of course, since you're bringing two conjure-migraine mesmers, their veils get pleaked/pspiked every time).
 * Hexes by themselves aren't a problem; it's the hex stacks that are game-breaking. The other thing is that any single hex may not be all that powerful in GvG, but exceptionally strong in areas such as HA - two prime examples are Spiteful Spirit and Rising Bile - and get completely ignored because PvP is, for the most part, balanced around GvG.
 * In short? Whatever you do to hexes, I don't really care, so long as hexway gets a big nerf. The argument of "but they're squishies, any decent warrior can just run up and smash face" doesn't really work when said warrior has Spiteful Spirit and your pick of either Reckless Haste or Price of Failure on him at any given time - and the rest of team can't do anything, and therefore wipes to the insane amount of pressure the hexes do. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 18:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

This skill is trash.

 * Issue
 * Even if it wasn't elite I wouldn't use it. 15 energy is prohibitive for a monk ==


 * Suggestion
 * I'm going to suggest an aggressive buff. 5e 1/4s 5r "Elite Spell. Remove a hex from target ally. If a hex was removed that ally is healed for 15...75...90 points. If there are any hexes remaining on that ally this recharges instantly."

We all Agree this skill is trash

 * Issue
 * Costly hex removal with a long recharged tacked on at the end.


 * Suggestion
 * Change into a signet. Remove all hexes from target ally and this skill is replaced with Enlightenment for XX seconds.
 * This skills behavior is like that of inspired/revealed hex and purge signet. Withdraw Hexes does not heal, you must use the skill that replaced it to get the heal. The amount of hexes removed determines the strength of the heal.
 * Enlightenment might have these stats 5e|1c|5r This spell heals for XX health for each hex removed by Withdraw Hexes.(Max:200)
 * Enlightenment skill is just an example it can be kept Withdraw Hexes or named something else.

Lancy's Proposal

 * Issues
 * -15 energy Self-Diversion for removing hexes? What?
 * Suggestion
 * -Make it elite hex-removal version of Foul Feast/Draw Conditions
 * - - (Divine Favor) - Elite Spell. "Transfer all hexes from target ally to yourself. Heals ally for  Health for each hex acquired and you gain  Energy. Cannot self-target.
 * --Falconeye 06:40, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Vili's Issue 07:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Issue: Being linked to Divine Favor makes this "viable" only on primary Monks. With Divert Hexes available (or Convert Hexes even!), why would a primary Monk ever use this with its massive energy cost and long recharge? Remember also: it's usually more efficient to ignore a hex or work around it than to waste a skillslot removing it. The problem with a lot of the hex removal skills is that they are just that - hex removal with no other effects. Why is Cure Hex (relatively) popular? Because it provides a huge heal in addition to removing a hex. See Restore Condition for this concept taken to its peak. (Shatter Storm doesn't have nearly the same penalties, even if it is only target foe. Hexes != enchantments, but you get the point. Did I mention it's unlinked?)


 * Suggestion: Add some other bonus effect to Withdraw Hexes so that it is more appealing than a cheap expensive knockoff of Hex Eater Signet. Few ideas...
 * "Functionality changed to"... Remove all Hexes from target ally. For each hex removed this way, you gain 1...6...8 enery. (no one runs more than 11-12 divine at the very max anyway)
 * Remove a Hex from target other ally. If a Hex was removed in this way, this skill recharges instantly. (50% failure chance with Divine Favor 7 or less) (I really like this possibility because of Channeling.)
 * (Unlinked) Remove all Hexes from all party members in radar range. (OP?)
 * Remove 1...2...3 Hexes from target ally. For each hex removed this way, that ally is healed for 20...50...75 health. (too strong?)
 * Remove a hex from target other ally. You lose all Hexes. (50% failure chance with Divine Favor 7 or less)

Skill Balancers's Proposal

 * Issues
 * -Additional recharge for every hex removed makes this skill undesirable
 * Suggestion
 * change to an elite version of Healing Ribbon+Cure Hex so that it will be useful against AOE hexes.

- - (Divine Favor) - Elite Spell. Spell. Remove one hex from target other ally and up to 2 additional allies near that ally. Each of those allies is also healed for Health.

Here's an Idear

 * Issue
 * Obviously UP'd.


 * Suggestion
 * Drop it down to Unlinked Attributes and make accessible to all professions. Make it [10-15] energy, [10-20] second recharge, Removes [1-3] hexes from target ally and all other allies nearby (or) within the area without healing. It'd be a proper optional counter to AoE hexes like Lingering Curse, Blurred and many other AoE hexes.

Bathory's Issue 03:01, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Comments & Suggestions Here, Please
 * Issue
 * The effect is too strong to have it's drawback removed or weakened. With the change to Lingering Curse, having an elite party-wide hex removal would be useful in both PvE and PvP. Keeping it's high energy cost would make it most effective around Necromancer skills that spread out and effect a lot of people (Lingering Curse, Suffering, Meekness). This also makes it like other monk skills, like Convert Hexes, that have special effeects when they remove Necromancers hexes.


 * Suggestion
 * Elite Spell. Party members lose Hexes. You gain 1 Energy for each Necromancer Hex removed.
 * Elite Spell. Party members lose Hexes. You gain 1 Energy for each Necromancer Hex removed.

Starfire's Issue 12:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Issues
 * The drawback is too high and it's useless in compared to P&H

Suggestion
 * Make it work in in reverse that if a certain amount of hexes are removed, make it recharge instantly, but to not make it too good set a 2 sec cast time to make it easy to counter.
 * Elite Spell. Remove all Hexes from target ally and all nearby allies, those allies gain health regeneration for 10 seconds. This Spell recharges instantly if  hexes were removed.
 * Elite Spell. Remove all Hexes from target ally and all nearby allies, those allies gain health regeneration for 10 seconds. This Spell recharges instantly if  hexes were removed.

Amorality's Issue, 23 May 2009
Issue
 * Compared to other elite and non-elite forms of hex removal such as PnH and Convert Hexes this skill is vastly underpowered. Also with the hex heavy metagame that allows for bad teams to overcome top ten guilds, players really need a staple aoe hex removal but this skill is too costly and recharge would be too high if used now due to at least 3-4 hexes being placed on EVERY player. I know you have said, Izzy, that you would like to buff hexes as you consider them to be underpowered but the current metagame is a joke, 7-12 degeneration across the whole team is game-breaking. Therefore rather than nerfing hexes to uselessness again I suggest you buff a previously useless and unused elite. How about this one?

Suggestion
 * Make it a Hex-version of Martyr:
 * Elite Spell. Transfer all Hexes from all allies in the area to yourself. You gain armour for each Necromancer Hex transferred in this fashion.
 * Elite Spell. Transfer all Hexes from all allies in the area to yourself. You gain armour for each Necromancer Hex transferred in this fashion.

Gutti's Suggestion
See above.
 * Issue

-Gutti Loh 10:46, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Suggestion
 * - (Divine Favor) - . Elite Spell. Remove a hex from target and nearby party members. Removal effects: Heal entire party for  for each hex removed.