Talk:Gwen/A3

Logan note

 * &rarr; Moved from Talk:Gwen (Eye of the North)

Added because while it is just speculation, we know Thackeray has a thing for Gwen, he has a descendant in GW2(implied by name) and who else would it be, Gwen is an important NPC, and frankly it makes sense--Lord Randy 06:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because he has a thing for her doesn't mean it turned into a relationship. I don't think we should have the note here, though it's appropriate on Lt. Thackeray's page because of the shared surname. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 06:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

May as well have the trivia note there since its got a pretty heavy chance at being right--Lord Randy 07:01, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty heavy is pretty relative. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 08:14, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I prefer the note removed. Her and the guy have no more than a few lines together. You can't assume a relationship from that. (Xu Davella 15:17, 6 December 2009 (UTC))
 * If I remember right, wasn't there an entire Wintersday quest dedicated to helping him get a gift for her? Putting a descendant of Gwen in GW2 does seem like the sort of thing ANet would do, and if you think about it, the Wintersday 2008 quest was created after work had started on GW2. Does anybody here really believe that Logan and Gwen aren't related? --Santax (talk · contribs) 15:27, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It is really a thing Anet would do (that's something I really like from them) but it's still a speculation (for example, in theory there are several people who can be the one who hooked up with Lt. Thackeray). I say add when there is some more evidence. For now, remove. -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 15:44, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

While true there are not to many lines, It is the sort of thing Anet would do, and its an easily predictable thing they would do--Lord Randy 16:05, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno if they would. We've never really seen a relationship happen in Guild Wars, except for Cynn's tsundere approach to Mhenlo, Koss and Melonni's love-hate situation, and these hints, and half the time in the HoM Gwen talks like she doesn't want Thackeray there. I think it's too hard to say at this point, but maybe they'll clarify in one of the novels. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Watch, some point in the future it will be right, but until then i think the trivia note is got at least some business down there, And another thing, she just may not be showing it that's all i have to say on that--Lord Randy 18:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It is trivial speculation that many people agree with, thus that in itself makes it worthy of staying as trivia. Gwen aside, we know Thackeray likes her, and seems to be a persistent little guy so far, despite Gwen's peculiar "foreplay." [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 20:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

And calling him by first name could be hinting by Anet that she likes him back, just scarred to admit it, since everything she has ever loved has been destroyed, or burned by the charr, and pretending like she doesn't like him gives her security he wont be destroyed by a giant flaming crystal falling from the sky--Lord Randy 20:16, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd prefer it remain unclarified, that way we can decide each for ourselves in our own mind what happened, rather than having it dictated to us. --Nathe 00:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

If you do want to keep a note about this, just say Keiran seems to have some interest on her; saying Logan is her descendant is going too far from the point. The evidence supporting this is too little, Kairen could even die just after GW:EN while Logan would be his brother's descendant (assuming he has one). I'm removing the note. --Drake of Storms 01:13, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


 * What about wording it "It has been speculated by Guild Wars players that ____ because ____"? Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Jupiter.jpg|19px]] 01:38, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * SOME players speculate it. The wiki is not for a few players' speculations, but for game info. --Drake of Storms 05:27, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Is a trivia note not saying its true, it deserves a spot atleast--Lord Randy 05:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Why does it deserves a spot? Just keep the facts straight, make the note about Keiran, then in his page the note about Logan and let players smart enough create their own speculations. There's nothing directly relating Logan to Gwen.--Drake of Storms 05:33, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I still laugh at the "Lady of Shallot" trivia, as I don't see the resemblance at all, but oh well. This one was a bit too much speculation, but I think it would be quite safe to say that "Gwen has a developing friendship with Lt. Thack in the quest blah blah." as that is not speculation, it is a fact. Going further is a bit too much, just wait for another quest to push this forward. Or GW2 itself. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 12:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

My speculation is that Rose of Kali needs to get laid. >:
 * Really? Care to set it up for me? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 13:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

No revert war

 * &rarr; Moved from Talk:Gwen (Eye of the North)

Don't try to start one with me, it may be speculation but a good size chunk of players believe in it, and most have said it should stay so please do no revert it again, remember it is not saying that it is 100% but that it is widely believed to be so, through several facts, Lt. Thackeray is a persistent guy and likes Gwen, It is Anet they are quite predictable in what they will do and this screams it, it is not unfounded. So please do not entice a revert war over this.--Lord Randy 05:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If you make enough assumptions you can get to that trivia point. I prefer to minimize the level of assumptions needed before putting something in trivia. And in the above section, it certainly wasn't most who said it should stay. The most I would agree to would be the line of "Players speculate that..." but then this is supposed to be a guide to help players, and not just keep all their speculative ideas. --JonTheMon 05:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Please stick to the one-revert-rule. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Wiki:One-revert_rule --Drake of Storms 05:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Think for 5 seconds, how predictable is Anet, is this something they would do, if you say they are unexpected and its not then you need to think again, and drake stfu you did multiple reverts on it you have no right to speak o nthat--Lord Randy 05:32, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I did one revert only. And no personal attacks policy. And the wiki is not for what YOU think or me think, it's for the FACTS. --Drake of Storms 05:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I did not make a personal attack towards you, you are trying to discredit people and should stop and be somewhat polite about it--Lord Randy 05:35, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The talk page is to talk about the article, not about my attitude. --Drake of Storms 05:38, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's extremely likely to be true, since Thackery is otherwise a nobody. Introducing a love interest is about the only way to carry Gwen into the future lore. People who do not do his quests, or pay enough attention to them or the Voices of Tyria video will miss the breadcrumbs that A.net has left for us to follow. Helping players follow these breadcrumbs is a worthy trivia note. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Jupiter.jpg|19px]] 05:40, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it's possible but not very likely. There's no real development of a romance, just a very subtle possibilities (that could result in a mere friendship). I think the chance of this happening is only slightly higher than the chance of him marrying Captain Langmar. Honestly, I believe Gwen could end up alone or even with a Prophecies character, since there is a quest in which she travels to Old Ascalon just to give him/her a simple flute.--Drake of Storms 05:49, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You should stick to this instead of making personal attacks at me and claiming i am the attacker, stick to the issue of you not believing that there is even a chance that this could be true(on an added note Don't bait people into revert wars makes you just as bad)--Lord Randy 05:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Jesus, enough of the derailing. I added a reference to the Gwen-Thackeray marriage thingamadoo. -- R i ddle 18:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Said Riddle 3.5 months later? :P And that link calls Gwen an elementalist... O_O [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 20:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, this sets the whole Gwen-Keiran Thackeray &rarr; Logan Thackeray ordeal into stone, so we don't have to worry about player speculation and how said speculation starts revert wars. And yes, I believe that statement was released from NCSoft, since NCSoft has a knack for messing things up :p -- R i ddle 20:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, it doesn't look like that came from NCsoft, nobody can find a link from these quotes that hit internet like they're viral and are being re-quoted word for word (except actually calling Gwen a mesmer). The only official thing I've seen so far is the news link of an interview with Linsey that's on guildwars.com, and it says nothing about Gwen and Keiran's relationship. So I'm still doubtful of this... [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 22:12, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * FYI, remember Captain single eyed blonde? that would also get Lt.Thackery into a high ranked place.-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 17:07, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * http://us.ncsoft.com/en/ncsoft-and-arenanet-celebrate-guild-wars-5th-anniversary-with-guild-wars-beyond-and-the-war-in-kryta.html "Gwen and Lt. Thackeray are destined to marry and establish the human city of Ebonhawke, a key location in Guild Wars 2, and their descendent, Logan Thackeray, is one of the iconic characters in Guild Wars 2." That should be solid enough for everybody. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 17:13, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool, so they unblocked that finally... and fixed Gwen's profession. 21:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rose Of Kali (talk).
 * Told you--Lord randy taylor 18:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Revert war 23rd April

 * &rarr; Moved from Talk:Gwen (Eye of the North)

Guys, I'm a bit unclear as to why people are reverting over the top of one another on the point of Logan. NCsoft has stated that Logan is Kieran and Gwen's offspring and that he plays a large role in GW2. Is it just that people feel the point isn't relevant to the article or that they think the point is in dispute? (which it isn't) Please debate it out, if I see that point reverted again without some form of consensus reached beforehand, I won't be over the moon about it. Cheers guys. -- Salome    14:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There are two separate issues: is the information in the press release valid (Nathe) and should there be a citation. For the second one, there was a discussion about whether the citation was right for Keiran's page (result, no) but that was applied to the Gwen page w/o much discussion (preliminary result is it should be on this page). --JonTheMon 14:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jon, for the succinct summary. Well in answer to the first point, I would say that it's pretty clearly stated by NCsoft that it is the case and regardless of NCsoft's ability to issue accurate press releases, we should for now function on the basis that the information is valid. As for the second point, that's up to the community to discuss and decide rather than continual reverts on the point, thus my initial point stands, from now on guys please discuss if the note is applicable to this article, rather than just reverting over one another. Cheers. (Also my personal opinion is that their is nothing wrong with the note being added to both Keiran's and Gwen's pages as trivia, as it is relevant information and far more pertinent than alot of the questionable "this skill name references X song title" type stuff that we have) -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 14:16, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, to clarify further, the discussion on Keiran's page was about whether there should be the citation, not the note itself. So, even more! --JonTheMon 14:17, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest, Nathe hates the idea that Keiran and Gwen end up together and has been very vocally opposed to it ever since it was first speculated upon. He is just in denial and I think also the only person trying to remove the note (in violation of 1RR I might add). I knew he was going to be pissed with the way things progressed as soon as I saw the new dialogue. Arenanet can be very transparent sometimes. Misery  14:25, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Nathe is the only one in opposition to this. I think he's just arguing for the sake of arguing... or something. I don't know why he has such a problem with it. Aside from him, the consensus among the rest of us is that what comes officially from NCsoft is official. I believe the dispute tag can be removed, as there is no dispute, just one person trying to stir up revert wars with everyone else over a confirmed fact. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 15:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok so I did some more poking around to try and find the deeper issue... it appears Nathe has an entire user feedback suggestion posted here posted September 2009 that is basically railing against a Gwen/Kerian relationship. Also on the talk page of the Lieutenant Thackeray article, he is very outspokenly opposed to the idea of a Gwen/Kerian relationship. I think the issue here is that he is just trying to push his own grudge against the storyline, because he doesn't like it, despite it being confirmed by NCsoft/Anet. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 16:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well if that is the case. He can further his own rant on his own user space, however the wiki is to document the game and anet says that gwen and kieran get it on in the future and who are we to judge who chooses to jump whom. If their are further objections, then fair enough, but if its just Nathe having an issue, then I expect him to not be removing or reverting any such notes relating to their future relationship. Cheers. -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 16:29, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

So, any objections to me removing the section disputed tag? The consensus from this talk page, the article's edit history and people arguing with Nathe on his user talk page is that the NCsoft/Anet press release is a reliable source and Gwen and Kerian marry as stated, and that Nathe is acting against it alone out of personal dislike. -- Hawk Skeer  (Talk) 17:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No objections from me. --JonTheMon 18:12, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You all seem to have forgotten that Ebonhawke wasn't founded until about a century after EOTN, when the Vanguard and the Norn were forced out of the far north by Jormag's minions. So Gwen and Kieran couldn't have founded it. Which means the "press release" is wrong.
 * Retcooooooon. Misery  19:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ghosts says Ebonhawke is founded 2 years after the defeat of the great destroyer. retcon complete.--Lord randy taylor 18:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing in the game yet to suggest a child between them. If NCSoft wasn't stupid we wouldn't be having this discussion Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 3.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That's right on the money, NCsoft and its press release mistakes.--Lord randy taylor 20:59, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I imagined an older more mature Gwen establishing Ebonhawke. Ascalon isn't dead yet and she's still working out her anger issues by cooking some tasty charr meat in the north at EOTN (actually, does she ever go out on assignments or does she really just sit there forever?) Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 3.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 23:08, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Graphical oddity

 * &rarr; Moved from Talk:Gwen (Eye of the North)

I just noticed that Gwen appears to be holding her right arm at a horribly uncomfortable angle. Her shoulder clips right through the strap of her Deldrimor dress. Have others noticed this? If so, is it a recent thing? --Irgendwer 03:37, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh, I never noticed that before. Seems to be how her model is made; it happens regardless of her armor or weapons. My guess is it's a negative side effect to blowing people up as a child. --- Ness [[File:User Ness Hrin SigIcon.png]] Hrin | 03:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Never noticed myself either, though, could be from what Ness mentioned and also from her time in captivity, amongst the Charr.MystiLefemEle 10:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Does that really belong in this article?

 * &rarr; Moved from Talk:Gwen (Eye of the North)

Gwen (Eye of the North) article, and the first non-quote paragraph is a spoiler for WiK? That's wrong on multiple levels. <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 14:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I propose a split. This article is cluttered and unorganized, bouncing between information from the EotN expansion and WiK, which are different parts of the game. Anyone who has not unlocked WiK content (or doesn't own Prophecies) will be facing a bunch of spoilers and having to figure out what belongs to which time period. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:24, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Better yet, could we do something like Gwen (adult)? -- <font color="#ef8f50">R <font color="#916142">i <font color="#333333">ddle 23:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * She's an adult everywhere besides Pre, I don't see the point of doing that, unless it was sarcasm. The purpose of this particular split would be to take out all of the WiK stuff from this page. Suppose you just went and bought EotN, got Gwen as a hero and decided to read about her. You come to her EotN page and the first thing you see is that she's the captain of the EV and Langmar is dead. What? Then you read notes about her and Lt getting married while they're acting like teenager BF/GF in game. This is just bad. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's two lines of text? Doesn't really strike me as needing it's own article. Backsword 02:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree with the split. Rather, I propose moving to a page name that would better suit the adult gwen - so there's no EN/GWB issue. It's the same person, same NPC. Spoilers exist in both forms, but for different things. This is a spoiler page, so that's a poor reason for a split in this case. Yes, this article needs a tad bit re-organizing, but not a split. -- Konig / talk 20:52, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to clarify that at present, her pages are divided by how old she is - ten, 17, and 18. In GWB, she's 19 (since it happens a year after EOTN). Maybe it could be divided that way, dunno. --Nathe 00:44, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the split, i was about to add, only to find there isnt a page for her post-war... It made a little bit of me die inside. --<span style="background-color: Lavender; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; border: 1px solid #c7c7c7; padding: 0 5px;"> Neil • User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 02:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I am neutral as to the split. Neil, you sure? I thought I saw here mention it once, meh. might be just me thinking that way as to KT' pony-tail.MystiLefemEle 12:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Seriously? An article for Gwen as a child, Gwen as a charr prisoner, Gwen as a Vanguard hero, and Gwen for the War in Kryta? Seeing as the Eye of the North Gwen and the War in Kryta Gwen aren't even technically separate NPC's, how about we just have a single "biography" article? There's no need to have a separate article for Gwen in every year of her life. --Santax (talk · contribs) 14:02, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Taking info specific to WiK, like Thackeray's scavenger hunt, to a different page should be ok. Removing info about Gwen itself should be not. Spoilers are not reason enough. Splits should come when pages grow too big or when there's a clear differentiation.Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 19:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * And I'm trying to say that there is a "clear differentiation." At the very least, instead of splitting into different articles, it should be clearly split into sections, showing what pertains to EotN and what's in GW:B (WiK and now HotN). EotN and GW:B are different parts of the game and don't happen at the same time. It's not even about spoilers, it's about being able to follow what's relevant to the part of the game you're playing at the moment. Also, if it's not split, it needs to be renamed. Gwen (adult) seems to fit much better. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 18:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to have this discussion moved to Talk: Gwen/draft. -- Konig / talk 22:45, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Now, wouldn't it be easier if her EoTN name was changed to Gwen Thackeray? I'm just saying, it sure would remove alot of confusion and would warrent a seperate article imo. - Lucian Shadowborn   03:45, 17 December 2010 (UTC)