ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Signet of Ghostly Might

Lancy1214's Proposal
One drawback of this version is that it could be wasted on non-attacking spirits. -- Gordon Ecker 05:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks more like a buff to those that use minions to me.--75.94.77.148 06:58, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it shouldn't support Minion Master. It is a signet, so it doesn't use . Did you calculate how much armor-ignoring damage the signet would do? Ca. 900 in 12 seconds. Isn't that way to hard? Yullive 07:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 450 over 12 seconds with 3 spirits attacking once per 2 seconds each at rank 15, for ~20.83 DPS. Spirits of Bloodsong and Bone Fiends attack slightly faster, other minions attack significantly slower. The non-elite Painful Bond deals 27 DPS at rank 12 if 3 spirits attack the target once per 2 seconds each (edit: forgot about the attack speed buff 21:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)). -- Gordon Ecker 08:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I would replace "allied summoned creatures within earshot (maximum 1...3...3)" with "your spirits". This would prevent abuse by Minion Masters, and prevent a party with two ritualists using this on minions belonging to a third character. IMO, skills with as little intersection as possible with other mechanics are better than overarching ones. Erasculio 13:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok! (Changed from Allied Summoned creatures to spirits you control)--Lancy1214 13:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But...But...I was expecting a three pages long discussion...(just kidding : D) Erasculio 13:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I aim to please, if you want a three page discussion you got one ;)--Lancy1214 13:48, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sry, my mistake. I calculated with attacking once per 1,5 seconds. But you forgot the 50% faster attackrate!!! So every spirit deals +200 damage over the 12 seconds. That are 600 armor-ignoring damge from one signet every 20 seconds. An because of attacking faster the 3 spirits do extra dmg with their own attacks (more attacks) and spirits with special attacks like Bloodsong, Disenchantment, or Dissonance are way stronger. Yullive 14:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think 50% was a little too much too, made it only 25%--Lancy1214 14:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Rt/any_Mobile_Spirits << This is standard PvE-general use offensive-wrangler. "By itself it on the math/damage side: It is (25+18)/2(pain) + (22+18)/1.75(blood) + (20+18)/2(vamp) + (17*2+18)*36/48/2(anguish) ~= 84.5 Damage/second(armor ignoring)." Personally, ive been able spike an excess of +200 damage per volly when Wanderlust and Shadowsong is thrown in. In the case of Lancy's version (Which I love many of her ideas) simple exchange Offering of Spirits and pop in Boon of Creation for energy. 2 questions? why at 25% attack speed (and not 33%) and wouldnt more then 3 spirits be better? 3-4 rituals is norm for 'Spirit Heavy' and few builds can support 5-6 rituals by virtue of its self-regulating nature?
 * A justifiable reason for effecting only max three rituals could be they -STOP- whatever they are currently doing and auto-target your called targets. ^_^ Think thats too much?
 * Also: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Rt/any_Spirit%27s_Might << LOVE that 100 Anguish spike! Use these two examples to balance new Signet of Ghostly Might. --Falconeye 15:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't forget, what happens if the signet makes the spirits attack faster and you use it with Dissonance, or Disenchantment. Even the damage boost wouzld become harder but although they would interupt better / take more enchantments. I realy think, this version woul'd be way to strong. Yullive 14:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why im toning down the spirits Yullive:P Ur so cute with ur pessimistic comments<3 And to the user above, the reason why it's only three spirits is because of the potential abuse it could have. If you brought five damage spirits, this, painful bond and rez, that would be insane armor ignoring damage. The condition of this skill forces you to bring damage spirits only because the clause would be determined by random. This reinforces and prohibits communing ritualists from going defensive and offensive due to the fact that your signet of ghostly might may be wasted on a non-attacking spirit such as displacement or union. Again, this skill needs to be powerful because spirit killing (sorry I'm a PvP chick, I rarely consider PvE when making these; which I should) in PvP is fairly easy to do. Also, durations and levels of the spirits are generally decreasing with my updates so, while they are active, killing them is still a very viable option.--Lancy1214 23:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem that a PvP/PvE split cant solve. ^_^ Better yet, why not tie in spirit limit to Spawning Power as Anet did with Glowing Gaze and Shocking Arrow to Energy Storage? "spirits you control within earshot (maximum 1, plus 1 Spirit per 4 ranks in Spawning Power)" This would force attribute allocation in PvP for any who'd want to control 3 or more spirits, and simultaneously eliminate N/Rt or other secondary abuse. Another option is to destroy randon number excess spirits (a mechanic similar to post-nerfed/pre-buffed Order of Undeath version << interesting mechanics, poorly thoughtout)
 * PvE-version * - - (Communing) "For  seconds, spirits you control within earshot (maximum 6) attack 33% faster and deal + damage."
 * All that firepower is a *MUST* for Hard Mode and Elite-areas. --Falconeye
 * Mmm... Anet could use more to thier advantage! Example: Instead of 2 Mystic Regenerations-version (3 vs 8), they instead go "...for each enchantment on you. (maximum 3 + 1 per 3 Mysticism ranks.)... secondaries cant abuse it in PvP.
 * I like that! :) I'm adding a PvE suggestion and revamping the signet now :) your such a great help thanks--Lancy1214 18:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The idea of limiting # of spirit it affects because you don't want offensive and defensive spirit on the same bar could be control through positioning and time when to activate each ritual, a Rit could put down all their offensive spirits near front line, then throw SoGM on before heading to the back to put their defense spirit up, might be hard to do, but one could maintain spirits like this idea. not saying i don't like the idea, i like how you're trying to fix this line cause it really needs it, but something like that need to be thought of, cause I don't want this line buff only to be nerfed cause idiots abuse it >.<--Metal Sazz 00:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

The issue is imba. PvP and PvE. Don't wonder, if ANET doesn't agree to it. Yullive 14:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Does it -really- need 1...5...6 seconds scaling? As it stands -- its a signet that behaves as an Order -- SoGM skill functions as Order of Undeath version for Binding Rituals. I'd leave it at 5 or 6 seconds and let half-recharge staffs handle the rest.

signet costing energy?... -- InfestedHydralisk  22:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, as of now, a PvP/PvE split is no longer required for balanced issues. By just using 'Spirits you control' you prevent any possible team abuse in PvP, and by not being tied down to earshot it maintains degree of Hit-n-Run & Ambush tacitcs in PvE. Ive lost track of how many times my Spirits saved half my party from complete wipeout by aggroing/decoying while the rest ran for it. As for your previous Comment... "...it's only three spirits is because of the potential abuse it could have... The condition of this skill forces you to bring damage spirits only because the clause would be determined by random..." as of now if I wanted to use specialized build using SoGM (Random/Team Arean) based on the version at time of this comment, i'd put (Spawning10/Communing11/Channeling11) and I'd bring 2-3 attack-spirits & 1-2 support-spirits. No need to -Force- anything when the realities of Attribute-spreads and current Meta-game regulates itself. ^_^ --Falconeye 15:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm sorry you're right, the signet costs NO energy...it's just I copied and pasted other templates and the 5 energy thingie was in there already so i forgot to change it. My bad--Lancy1214 21:54, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Added Clause that it recharges instanty if you control only 1 spirit. This could work since 1 buffed attack spirit isnt much of a threat, even in PvP... plus it creates a tactical option to maintain only 1 spirit at a time (in this case the the old Anquish+Painful Bond combo). This also makes it slightly more useful for non-rits. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Falconeye (talk).

The actuell version looks nice. Yullive 15:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

New buff suggestion
@New buff: this would be worser than the version we aktually know. Yullive 23:14, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting proposal but overly complicated solution that hardly addresses the heart of the issue. See Order of Undeath. --Falconeye 01:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Post December 08'

 * Anguish, Vampirism, Bloodsong, Pain, Shadowsong, Fury... + Painful Bond & SoGM... + hero buffs = sustainable frag-fest.
 * (1) Olias JB-Minion Bomber Hero, (2) Livia BiP-Restorer Hero, (3) Razah WoQ-Channeler Hero.
 * Averaging 90-220 damage per second, for an average of 600-1,200 damage per 5 second increments.
 * Deal (average) 32,000 damage over 180 seconds, for an average of 175 dps over course of 1 hour of testing.
 * Best damage done in single second, done at 1 second... ~300~ spikeage.
 * Death accuring after 3 seconds for Master of Damage (let alone HM-bosses) -- PRICELESS ^_^
 * There are some things Rits cannot buy or do... for everything else... there is Signet of Ghostly Might!

--Falconeye 07:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)