ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Paragon/"Incoming!"

Life Infusion's Discussion
That's still pretty worthless. --71.229 21:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Party-wide shielding hands or SoA --Underwood 22:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * keep in mind it is not removable. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 22:17, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Would be a nice and nececarry change to a dead elite skill. [[Image:User FirstSunspear icon.png|15px| ]] FirstSunspear /// Talk 23:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You rationalize every nerf with "it's not removable". So? Many other things are not removable. And many things are removable but in practice they never are removed. How many enchants realisitically get removed? How many stances? Stop using "it's not removable" as excuse to make all skills complete crap. Nobody is gonna spend an elite to perform half of Reversal of Fortune on everyone. --89.142.137.2 20:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Sniper Fox's Discussion
If by "affected ally" you mean allies within earshot, your suggestion would be easily abused. Two paragons could easily maintain your suggestion with the energy return from Leadership. --Rururrur 14:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Spura's Discussion
I like that one myself.--Underwood 22:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that's the best idea on this page. Maybe recharge could also be reduced to 15 seconds? A. von Rin 16:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. [[Image:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg|19px]]   nuke7    [[Image:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg|19px]] 20:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For once, I agree with Shard. Don't know what the recharge should be, but I think that the damage reduction should have always been the thing that scales and not the duration.  76.89.81.150 15:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Lumi's Issue
The problem with spikes is that they happen too fast for monks to catch them. If spike is slow then monks can infuse it. So main method of overcoming spikes has 2 stages. Interrupting as much of the spike as possible, followed by quick infuse to prevent afterspike from killing the target. So your suggestion is completely pointless. Elite shout that's like infuse only weaker(since you will probably prevent only a bit of spike damage from the point you applied the skill on, while infuse heals much of the damage that has happened before infuse cast). That would be even more worthless than now. Now you can actually use it to counter spikes that are too fast for infuser to react to. For instance...Shadow Walk + Shockwave ele spike. There's no way monk can target the right ally and infuse in time. With your suggestion, we still have the same problem. Paragon won't be able to target the correct ally fast enough and use this skill. If you wanna see how your suggestion would work, try catching spikes with Angelic Protection, a single target antispike skill. It's lame. And you are suggesting an elite skill of this nature. Current Incoming at least enables you to catch one spike every 20 sec. --Spura 15:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Forgot about this suggestion... and I know its a late reply, but my point is that if you can see the spike coming (eg hex on target, rangers turning to face that target, sins teleporting etc, then you can change to target that target. It would then perform similar to spirit bond, except that it wouldnt be removable. At the time I posted this (i think cant rly remember) I had been in HA versing rit spikes (the one with the N/A using shadow prison, iron palm and rend enchantments. Spirit Bonding failed because it got ripped, so it came down to the infuse. If a paragon had that elite and was there then it would be simple. This would also work on shockwave spikes etc coz when they teleport, just target and hit. This is better then an infuse in that it also casts faster. Angelic protection also heals after 1 second has passed. So in a clean spike it literally does nothing. Again, sorry for the Very late reply, but just thought id reply anywayz. Lυмιиαяυs 01:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Angelic Loki's Issue
Honestly, the armor might be a bit high for this skill, but people dont tend to carry more then 10 command, because not many of the command skills reward more then 9-10. I dont think you should have to break that spec to make the skill workable, so the skill would hit 24 armor at 10 or 11 command.Its similar to Ward Against Harm without the extra armor vs fire or the movement constraints. --Angelic Loki 18:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I like your idea the best. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  20:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Making this to an elite version of "Watch Yourself!" is a good idea. But with green numbers please ;) &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 20:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Shall we try the below? I lowered the armor a bit, I dont want the skill to be comparable to Angelic Loki 00:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

that idea is like talking | old watch yourself, nerfing it a bit, and calling it an elite --Cursed Angel  01:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, and there are a couple reasons why. First of all, old watch yourself was overpowered when paragons came out. The reason was that you could use 1 skill to hit half the armor cap. Not only that, but you used that one skill every 4 hits, which warriors weren't meant to do, since they had to charge other adrenal skills. Third, the lack of a recharge allowed the paragon to get an infinite source of energy, essentially, when at flag stand, or in HA where teams dont split. So, at the price of an elite, we give them that ability back. Once again, they have a high source of energy and a good adrenal armor buff. --Angelic Loki 17:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Cursed Angel is right, this idea makes this skill even worse for preventing spikes than it is now. Most spike damage is armor ignoring and your suggestion isn't worth an elite slot tbh. A. von Rin 11:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Its a retool on the skill, moving it from an active spike catch to a passive pressure defense. If I wanted it to catch spikes I would suggest something along the lines of a party wide Spirit Bond. But I didn't. Anytime you introduce something thats capable of catching spikes on a whole team, you will have people who try and cycle it to create a team immune to spiking, which is why the skill is nerfed to hell right now. This skill was so powerful when it saw play that whole teams were defined by the ability to cycle this skill. 4 Incomings were used to cycle the full 20 seconds until it was nerfed down. It was horrible. Its nerfed so low because the idea of a party spike catch -- even a 4-5 second one -- is broken. Thats why I said that it needed a retool of the skill. Make it viable without making it broken again. As for how well it prevents spikes, well, RSpike is almost completely stopped by ward against harm, which is the same amount of armor. +24 armor stops about 20% of a spike (accounting for the fact that +damage from attack skills ignores armor), which can give your monks what they need to catch the spike, but like I said, the idea was passive armor bonus, not catching spikes. The reason its worth an elite is simple: no other skill can provide a un-interuptable passive armor bonus for the whole team without the loss of movement. Watch Yourself ends after 2 hits at best, and Stand only adds if you aren't moving. Not only that, but you GAIN energy from using the skill, so you dont need to bring GFtE or WY for E-Management. So you have a potent skill, and your energy management, all in 1 skill. --Angelic Loki 18:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm in favor of this change. --Rururrur 14:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * due to the seperation of PvP and PvE skills, its highly unlikely that any retooling of skills will happen anymore. --Angelic Loki 10:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

lulz
make it last 1 additional second. Incoming is really not that bad tbh. I don't see the issue. 68.35.98.155 03:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 4 paragons say hai2u. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  20:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 4 used elite slots say hai2u. Of course someone will drop the "paragons have free elite slots anyway lolz", which is just another way of saying "their elites are shit so they can waste the slot" --Spura 16:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that means they don't need their elites to provide awesome part support along with free ranged dps. 4 gons = 4 Spears + 4 sets of motigon bars + 50% damage reduction. Oh, and since this ends every 4 seconds, finales says hai2u. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  17:02, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Rururrur's Discussion
I think this would allow the skill to be used as intended without being abused. --Rururrur 13:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * hasn't this already been stated multiple times? It works tho. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  13:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it has been stated, but it wasn't on this list of suggestions. --Rururrur 16:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the duration is short, and nobody wants to use up their elite slot and that much energy/recharge on a skill that quite possibly won't even provide much benefit...which got me thinking---if somebody yelled "Incoming!", I would duck behind a rock or something. Maybe they could boost the duration, but make it end if the player damages an enemy with attack/spell, since he/she obviously decides to stand around stabbing faces instead of heeding your warning before the meteor shower arrives in face-melting fury. That, or maybe it could reduce the affect player's damage from spells and attacks by x%...kind of like Life Attunement.  That way this stays a defensive skill, avoiding the potential for abuse by teams who wish to have high damage while simultaneously reaping the benefit of permanent unremovable half damage from everything by sacrificing an elite skill slot on 2 or 3 team members. And this is just my personal feeling, I think having a skill that potentially disables ally skills is not as fun.  But that's just my two cents. - Elder Angelus 19:46, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the idea to end on attack/spell wouldn't work simply because Incoming! is instant which could essentially cause the skill to do nothing. I do like your idea for a damage reduction percentage.  Have any numbers in mind?  --Rururrur 20:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're thinking the wrong way, this is supposed to be anti spike, instead of increasing the duration, increase the damage reduction, and maybe add something like "Stand Your Ground!"'s end if you move thing. 70.108.148.240 14:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm on the same page as you keeping it an anti-spike skill. I'd still prefer the skill reverted to it's original stats with the disable clause, but with the right percentages and/or durations, Elder's suggestion could work as well, so long as it's not an extreme change.  I'm just curious as to the numbers that would go with that to keep it from being OPed or permanently chained. --Rururrur 08:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)