Talk:Guide to luck titles

Says: In order for lockpicks to be the same speed, one would have to open a chest about every three minutes. ...as fast as what? Chakra Djinn 05:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Presumably compared with the Nine Rings game, since that is stated as the fastest aquisition method for lucky/unlucky points at the start of the article. -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 13:18, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do lockpicks still give points? I haven't noticed mine increasing. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 17:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Lockpicks give points to the Luck title if they do not break. If they break then you get points in the Unlucky Title. Just got the Charmed Title myself doing mostly chests. And that is over 8 months not really trying. Thou when I also play other games like DnD I can roll lots of automatic crits and hit when I need to. Chris 98.209.30.104 13:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

What is this supposed to say?
In order for lockpicks to be the same speed, one would have to open a chest about every three minutes. What is being compared? Unindal 15:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Read above.  |--Saberhagen [[Image:User_Saberhagen_Wiki_Sig.JPG|19 px]] (My Talk) 11:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

lockpick
Game_updates/20081113 Anyone got more accurate values on how many "Unlucky points given each time you break a lockpick" will you get "as your chance to retain a lockpick upon use goes up"?

If I didn't misread that sentence, the higher your luck/treasure hunter titles, the lower the chances of your lockpick to break, and the higher the amount of points you'll get once it breaks. Guess I should ask Linsey... :P --NIN37 14:12, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It's been discussed and confirmed on the Lucky talk page -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 15:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info. Much appreciated! :D --NIN37 15:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Update
The 4:1 ratio given for lockpicks should be updated... if anyone wants a try at that calculation... -- Alaris 04:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Quickly locating Shing Jea Chests
It's no secret that the cheapest way to gaining lucky points is to use lockpicks on low level chests in Shing Jea, Istani, or Ascalon in Normal Mode. This is by no means the fastest way, but provides the highest chance of retaining lockpicks for multiple uses. In the event that your pick does break, you will earn a larger amount of unlucky points than in higher level areas.

I have been runnng chests in Shing Jea over this weekend and have found a quick run in Kinya Province to be the fastest means of finding Shing Jea chests in normal mode. I have opened hundreds of chests and only used a dozen or so lockpicks so far (I have honestly lost count at this point of how long a single pick lasts...it's a LONG time). I thought it might be useful for people to see the location of the chests I've been running to. The yellow dots indicate the fastest to find (and the most common spawn locations). The blue dots indicate spawn points that are further away but still a known spawn point.



In each run I have found there is always one chest to find and it's always in one of these locations. I choose to do a full sweep (indicated by my progress path in the above image), however you could choose to simply run in/out of the Ran Musu Gardens gate to check the closest locations. There are no enemies to fight so you only need running skills. You might aggro the odd group of low level foes, but they cannot kill you. I have simply been running through everything using Drunken Master, and I bring 3 Warrior heroes all carrying Charge. The heroes run together with me and alternate using their elite, so it's very easy to make a full sweep each time. -- Bunny  - Angel talk 21:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Nine Rings - Best Strategy ><
I think the guide is misleading about getting Unlucky points in Nine Rings.

Whereas it is best to be on corner rings than middle one, the guide is overlooking the fact unlucky points gain are ridiculous in Nine Rings anyway.

The second point is that playing on corner rings makes you have greater variance and thus your amount of ticket have higher chance to diverge and then to be out of tickect sooner than expected. In GW term, you can consider the center ring as a Degen Hex, and corner having a degen hex having spiking possibilities.

So my final advices is go in center ring in general. But if you still really want to profit a redidiculously low additionnal gain of unlucky points, go to corner but be sure to have much more tickets than you expect to spend. Elephant 08:32, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's assume that, after 9 rounds, each ring got chosen exactly 1 time:


 * A1
 * B1
 * C1
 * A2
 * B2
 * C2
 * A3
 * B3
 * C3
 * }
 * Now, let's pick two players: one standing on A1 (corner) and the other standing on B2 (center).
 * A1 got unlucky points when C1, B2, C2, A3, B3 and C3 were chosen (6 out 9).
 * B2 got unlucky points when A1, C1, A3, C3 were chosen (4 out 9).
 * So, corner rings awards unlucky points 50% more often than center ring (and whenever you lose the game, you'll get same amount of points, so losing more often gives more points per time spent). Even if amount of points is low, 50% faster points means you'd get the same amount of points in 67% of the time (comparing corner to center; so, if center would take, let's say, 3 months, corner would take just 2 months).
 * In short, this "redidiculously [sic] low additionnal gain of unlucky points" could mean you'd get highest rank in 2/3 of the time you'd get it choosing the other option (for fast farming titles, waiting a bit more doesn't consume much time; but for slow farming titles, the slightest difference could mean a few extra months needed to reach highest rank...). --NIN37 14:41, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * B2 got unlucky points when A1, C1, A3, C3 were chosen (4 out 9).
 * So, corner rings awards unlucky points 50% more often than center ring (and whenever you lose the game, you'll get same amount of points, so losing more often gives more points per time spent). Even if amount of points is low, 50% faster points means you'd get the same amount of points in 67% of the time (comparing corner to center; so, if center would take, let's say, 3 months, corner would take just 2 months).
 * In short, this "redidiculously [sic] low additionnal gain of unlucky points" could mean you'd get highest rank in 2/3 of the time you'd get it choosing the other option (for fast farming titles, waiting a bit more doesn't consume much time; but for slow farming titles, the slightest difference could mean a few extra months needed to reach highest rank...). --NIN37 14:41, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

"Even if amount of points is low" !

So do we agree on that point ?? because 50% more or less of something low is still low ! Whereas using some lockpicks would contribute for as much unlucky points as many hours of nine rings would.

My point is that there is too much emphasis on unlucky points and not enough on the variance issue. Elephant 11:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Mistake on Page?
I wanted to see if you agree there needs to be an edit under the lockpick section of this guide. 4th point. It states "one chest on average will earn you 250*RR luck points" assuming he meant retaining first of all. Also this appears misleading as if you will gain more than 250 points towards the Lucky title. e.g. RR of 35%: 35*250 which = 8750... What do you all think? GW-MaNiAc 22:00, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The statement is perfectly clear. There is no need to change it.  35% is equivalent to 0.35, not 35.--Thc 00:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok so using .35 instead that would be 250*.35=87.5 luck points gained. now that is less than 250 luck points per retain?
 * Or is the * denoting something else? GW-MaNiAc 03:05, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I see part of the confusion on my part is he isn't denoting for a retain, rather BOTH retain/break the average per chest. I guess i just don't like the wording of it or the logic since you either are successful or are not. You never achieve a 'partial retain'GW-MaNiAc 03:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Comparison tables
I'm added a comparison table to the page. I'm planning to add a further table for lockpicks to provide at least some basis of comparison with the games. I'm also planning to add a few footnotes to both tables to support the statistics, although I would expect players to look to the game pages for a full explanation. Finally, I'll review the rest of the comments on the page to check for consistency. In the meantime, please consider the table to be work-in-progress. Any comments are welcome. Kirbett 11:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Lockpicks
Roland, I've reverted the first paragraph of your change to the Lockpicks section. It is not true that picking any lock will unconditionally advance your progress on the Treasure Hunter and Wisdom title tracks at the same time. It is only opening high-end chests that will advance the Treasure Hunter title. And the Wisdom title is nothing to do with chests, but rather to do with identifying gold items. Chests frequently do NOT contain gold items, and even if they do, some players choose to sell on the items unidentified. So there are a host of "maybe's" which probably make the connections not worth mentioning in this note.

The remaining part of your change to the first paragraph notes that Treasure Hunter ranks influence the retention rate, but this is already noted on the page in a footnote to the tables. Kirbett 22:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)