Talk:Smoke Powder Defense

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

 * Smoke Powder: 30s -> 8s Smoke Powder Defense
 * Please discuss skill change here. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Old name was better. --Heelz 23:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * /agree Saph 00:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this skill was fine the way it was before. --71.184.113.36 00:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How about just calling it "Smoke Defense" then :P Anyway this is definitely a skill I will be using on a Mo/A to counter SP sins. The change seems to make sense, a 30s duration wasn't needed anyway. --Draikin 00:46, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Skill is better now, requires actual timing here (hell, I think even 5 seconds would be fine - blind is a powerful condition, especially with all the stuff that already blinds in HB and GvG). - Auron 00:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Old name was better. Duration nerf was good and needed. --Edru viransu 01:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * First stats were better. If it gets nerfed that hard then the recharge should come down. It worked like Hex Breaker for attacks before where you could keep one charge in the chamber... that's not viable any more and makes it unworthy of being brought for a different defensive skill that supports you better. Consider this if you wish to make it a more active defense:
 * Stance. For 3 seconds, the next time you are struck, you take half damage and all adjacent foes are Blinded for 1...3...3 seconds.
 * 5E/0C/8R
 * arredondo 01:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I sign for that suggestion. Makes it even more "active" like everyone wants. Also, the name needs a word removed from it. Any word works, flip a 3 sided coin. --Deathwing 01:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The good thing is that Monks will be reluctant to use it because they'd need to spec L12 Shadow Arts just to get 3s worth of protection. arredondo 02:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, actually on second though, that is too short of blindness to make much of a difference. 1 second blindness wouldn't even mess up ONE attack. 2 second blindness would cause one attack to miss. 3 seconds would cause one, maybe 2 attacks to miss, depending on weapon type. --Deathwing 02:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The skill is fine now, it's comparable to something like Shield Bash. 5/8 would be absolutely insane and make a monk flatout unspikable (unless you're a Melandru Derv, ofc). They'd just need 4 in SA for 2s blind, it's not like they need more than that for a spike to fail. The skill was never meant to be maintainable and having an extra charge ready, it's meant to be used when you can see a spike is coming your way. And being able to blind when you're knocked is damn good in itself. And btw, what kind of Assassin would actually have 12 Shadow Arts to use it at 3s blind? It's not just monks that'd be reluctant... The only Assassin builds i can think of with SA so high is Shadow Form sins, and i don't think those need that!Patccmoi 02:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The skill is fine now, it's comparable to something like Shield Bash. 5/8 would be absolutely insane and make a monk flatout unspikable (unless you're a Melandru Derv, ofc). They'd just need 4 in SA for 2s blind, it's not like they need more than that for a spike to fail. The skill was never meant to be maintainable and having an extra charge ready, it's meant to be used when you can see a spike is coming your way. And being able to blind when you're knocked is damn good in itself. And btw, what kind of Assassin would actually have 12 Shadow Arts to use it at 3s blind? It's not just monks that'd be reluctant... The only Assassin builds i can think of with SA so high is Shadow Form sins, and i don't think those need that!Patccmoi 02:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well then perhaps a 3s max Blind with 5E/0C/10R stats can work... it's just that a 20s recharge is sooooo long. If a melee train knows that a player is using this skill in its present state, they can send one attacker in range to trigger it, then clear up his Blind while the rest rush in and pound him. Right now it could only stop a full train maybe once per round before they wise up, then the defender is dealing with the terrible recharge. At least before the defender could have had a second charge ready to go, but if active defense is being encouraged, then it seems fair to shorten the Blind in order to shorten the recharge some. A 3s duration of the stance with a 1..3..3s duration of Blind under 5E/0C/10R stats may be a good balance between being forced to use it tactfully while giving it a chance at working decently more than once a round. This effect protects the player less than a L6 Illu Distortion because of the down time and the fact that once triggered it won't stop new attackers who rush in. However it protects from unblockable setups and doesn't drain your energy as they miss. arredondo 09:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I use 14 Shadow Arts in one of my PvE assassin builds. Beguiling Haze and Blinding Powder are pretty good for shutdown. Shadow Refuge and Way of Perfection make good heals. A long duration for Feigned Neutrality is also handy. Can't decide if this skill will replace Blinding Powder in my build or not though. --Deathwing 02:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah the skill is fine as it is. It's decent vs a solo spike and GREAT vs convergences.  A 3s blind is enough to ruin a spike already and you can get that with minimal spec in Shadow Arts.  --Symbol 02:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Struck in melee, or would a ranged attack trigger it too? Is that intended? Letting it be wanded off lowers the value of the skill pretty drastically. --Skye Marin 04:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * WTB 'Smoke Powder' not Smoke Powder Defense. Sounds clunky. No complaints about the duration shortening though, this is probally the only real "knock-off" of Shield-Bash that will be used. Living Parasite 07:49, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe "Flash Powder" and give it a bright purple flash when it triggers, lol. Looks good to me, even if the recharge does seem a tad high I haven't been on the receiving end of it yet and can't gauge.  [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]] 07:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, please change the name to Smoke Defense or something. The new stats are fine but the name is very clunky. Shendaar 12:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, duration nerf. I don't actually think this is a nerf, we won't be able to wand those who would have make a bad use of this skill anymore xD but that's fine, that restricts the use of this stance to his first aim that's good ^^ and i'm not against the possibility of reducing the duration to 3s like some ppl proposed above because anyway a 8s duration is useless. However i'd like to say to everybody to stop complaining about the thing "yeah they'll just have to wand me and everything will be over". This HAS to have a downside, something that can counter it otherwise we would all run this skill and it will get nerfed anyway during the following skill balancing process. (so i'm against Arredondo proposition of a 10s reload which is totally insane). And the name was changed because some ppl thought it sounded too much like an attack rather than a stance, imo it's the word Powder that just ruin the thing, Smoke Defense/Smoke Stance are fine 88.122.33.120 09:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So what if you can wand it off, you should only be using it when there's an adjacent foe that's about to spike you. If an SP sin attacks you can activate it and it will blind the sin regardless of who triggers it. Similarly if a hammer warrior uses Devastating Hammer on you, you can still activate it even when you're on the ground to mess up the rest of their combo. Active defense indeed. I wouldn't touch the recharge either, it would become way too good at 10s. Maybe the blind duration could use a slight boost like 2...6...7 or even 2...7...8 to bring it in line with Blind Was Mingson, so you get a higher return for investing in Shadow Arts. --Draikin 11:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not complaining about the wand thing, this is exactly what i said xD. I just pointed out that what some ppl thought was something that could justify a change in reload wasn't a good reason at all you just have to use this skill wisely, exactly the way you said ^^. And to say it clearly, i talked about the downside to show ppl running the skill the way they tought wasn't effective.Maybe i wasn't really clear about it, well forgive me :p 88.122.33.120 11:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's my fault, I wasn't replying to your specific comments but rather those above :) In other words I agree, and for the reasons stated above I don't even consider it a downside that it can be wanded off, it's not a skill that is supposed to be spammed on recharge anyway. --Draikin 17:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The name of this skill was presumably changed to avoid confusion with Blinding Powder with it's similar name and similar effect, but completely different trigger. --Ckal Ktak 08:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I am a little concerned how this might function on bosses / Hard Mode ; recharges in 10s for them & Blinds for likely 8+ at their ranks & can it even be removed ( would not all current Stance removers have to actually strike and therefore trigger it ) ? Looks like a non-Elite no-effort no-counter Ebon Dust Aura trumper for monsters to me...
 * Get a half decent monk that can remove blinds... Holymasamune 20:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing a Condition from every melee ally every 10 seconds a] not exactly a fair counter to a 5 Energy non-Elite skill b] will not a level 2x Assassin monster be inflicting cover Conditions at a rate of knots ?

Anyways, I like this skill. I can see it being used replacing return or dark escape on monk bars in GvG, and could greatly help sin survivability in PvE. Holymasamune 20:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Not enough powerfull regarding others GW:EN skills on my mind. Time recharge should be reduced to 15s.--Ttibot 18:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Original skill feedback
Probably gonna drop duration from 30 to 8 on this one to make it more active. ~Izzy @-&#39; 00:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You definitely should do that or make it scale with shadow arts, because at 30 duration, it can be a very long lasting immunity to any sort of melee physical spike. --Edru viransu 00:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I see this being used on monks some.
 * I see this being used on monks alot. You don't get spiked by melee(except mel dervs.. :/) with this up, unless sight beyond sight becomes popular. --Edru viransu 01:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A random shadowstep/teleport would fit the whole ninja theme, but that might make it too overpowered. 203.217.0.53 03:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've always found the random shadowsteps to be a downside? --Deathwing 05:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I'll definitely be trying this one out on my monk :) Yesitsrob 07:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Although this is a great skill for sin secondaries, I actually like this better than Blinding Powder for my primary sin too. Tele in, everyone is blinded, by the time it wears off you are out of there. --MasterPatricko 10:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's not too hard, considering blinding powder is terrible. Better things to blind with, though. - Auron 12:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also good as a cancel to Shadow Walk. After SW ur usually being targeted by a war. this used as the cancel will make 1 attacker much less effective in chasing a sin. Pop this then feigned and yer good and protected for the duration. Plenty long for a much needed monk heal by then.--Midnight08 13:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I really like this skill, because I think it's fitting for the Assassin's theme. Some players say Assassins need a better self heal, but I don't really agree - I think the profession relies more on hit and run attacks, so all its self healing either helps them to keep hitting for a few more seconds (so an assassin can finish his combo before having to go away) or helps them to run away (see Feigned Neutrality). This skill helps in both things, without being too strong. Erasculio 13:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Reduce duration so that you can permanently keep it up and potentially reaplly straight after a spike. I suppose its use is fairly limited if you just have somebody wand the target, and not going to be great vs pressure based teams, especially no against mistriss melandru... Geek Convention 19:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Remember, this is one of the pve-only skills, so while it might be great for farming, I doubt that this will see a lot of use in pvp.
 * I'll give you 2 dollars for the rest of that bag you are smoking. --Deathwing 11:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

whole shadow arts line is not meant for assassins?
IMHO that's a pretty close call... Sure it's ok for monks and stuff but I rarely see Shadow arts used by primary assassins. (I leave Shadow Form farming and some PvE usage behind the brackets). Now since there's a potential heal in Deadly Arts line Shadow Arts will become even less popular. On the other hand Shadow arts have pretty limited usage as a healing tool being replaced by Restful breeze and stuff. And here goes this skill. Great for monks once again but assassins are loosing their line to monk invaders now %) I really hope Shadow Arts line to get some kind of a buff in future since few new golden skills won't help the case IMO. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.234.212.102 (talk &bull; contribs) 00:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC).
 * I find shadow arts very useful for PvE. Daze a caster, blind everyone around you. All with a self heal and escape ability so you don't die. --Deathwing 22:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Now you don't have to go mo/w for a stance that saves you everytime, can go mo/a with this and return.
 * Sure they are for Sins, my Sin was all Shadow Arts and rarely died.-- §  Eloc   §  05:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill is really trying to beat out Shield Bash on an infuser bar. But walking trees aren't affected by blind. Living Parasite 07:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * this is like Burning Shield, not bad, but not that great as it seems, no need to drop duration to 8 imo --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:80.133.107.190.
 * I think it could use a lower duration so that it takes some skill to use, and you can't just keep it up all the time and be immune to spikes. skaspaakssa 14:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually smart players will only ask their monk or so to give a nice spear blow to cancel the stance and open the way for his teammates to perform their spike...(which is likely to happen and be successfull if players just use this stance as soon as it recharges). Good players will only use it when an Assassin shadow step to them which almost always means they will use their combo or when they see warriors are all coming in their direction waiting for them to actually be attacking before using the stance, which requires some skill in this case in order not to "waste" the stance and blind somebody who anyway wouldn't have been really dangerous if he wasn't trying to spike him, i'm saying that because blindness' duration here is short and if wasted the opponents would have enough time to remove blindness and perform another spike before the stance reloads. However i agree, the stance's duration should be reduced in order it not be kept up all the time 83.156.79.67 09:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Bad skill name
For a stance, that's a bad name. Stances generally sound like a continuous action, like "... haste", "... fury", "mantra of ...", "... defense", "... rampage", etc.; "Smoke Powder" sounds like a one-shot skill or signet.
 * But....it IS one-shot. Imagine the stance, conceptually, as the user being ready to throw a bag of powder in their attacker's face. Shido 19:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Viper's Defense is also one-shot but has a "stancey" name. Same for Mantra of Concentration, Mantra of Signets, and Symbolic Posture.
 * Looks like the name got updated. --Racthoh 23:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice to see my suggestion was heard, even though the new name may not be the most...fortunate...choice. Ahem. :) 80.129.108.131 17:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Smoke Powder Please Anti Oath 04:53, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Horrible update to the name, sounds more like a blocking stance than a one-shot anti-spike skill. --Lou-Saydus[[image:User Lou-Saydus Hail Storm.jpg|19px]] 01:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Flash Powder would fit the description better, IMO, as a oneshot skill to blind all adjacent. But it has the same problem as Smoke Powder, and Flash Defense sounds even worse than Smoke Defense.  [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]]| GD Defender  /  contribs 01:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

(RI)Why not call it "Smoke Bomb Defence"? Just "Smoke Bomb" is good too. Done25 20:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Bugged
After testing this out the skill is bugged and blind only lasts 2 seconds duration no matter how much shadow arts you have. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.194.104.90 (talk &bull; contribs) 17:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC). Tested it....there is no bug...Wormtongue Gr 17:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Spike sins
Would using Assassin's Remedy on any spike sin help countering this skill? --83.87.2.98 20:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Disregard that: the answer is yes. --83.87.2.98 20:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

OP much
This is like an "OH SHIT!" button. you hit and your invincible to melee for a few seconds. I vote they make this a 1/2 second cast enchantment.