Talk:Barrage

Clean it up?
''This bit here is to me all that's required. It tells you exactly what you need to know.'' Is this really necessary? ''Yes, they are. Read the description, it tells you that much.''
 * Each of Barrage's arrows counts as a separate attack. Effects that trigger on attack/hit can trigger multiple times, however some skills have no effect, or only affect the first arrow.
 * No effect
 * Preparations are removed.

Until here can be removed Agreed
 * Affect the first arrow only
 * Most paragon chants work on the first hit only, e.g. Anthem of Flame, "Go for the Eyes!", Anthem of Envy, "Find Their Weakness!"

''Well yes, after all, those affect "The next attack", and since each arrow is considered an individual attack, you can't expect them to trigger on all hits.

Change to "Chants only work on the first arrow Agreed, but should add "e.g. and put some examples
 * Affect many arrows

Some arrows perhaps?


 * Nightmare Weapon and Splinter Weapon up to the "next N successful attacks" limit of those skills.

I'm just going to paraphrase the above statement, each arrow is individual, so of course that's the way it works. The idea is rather to give a list of skills that work, rather than a general explanation of the skill. So someone reading this has some ideas of what to combine with barrage and to what effect

This is good this way i think
 * Affect all arrows
 * Conjure Lightning, Conjure Flame and Conjure Frost.
 * Heart of Holy Flame and Judge's Insight converts all arrows to holy damage.

A blanket statement, there's very few occasions in which the mentioned skills don't affect every attack/arrow, so if they didn't, I would that that as an exception, instead of making it a rule that it doesn't affect multiple attacks/arrows.

We should have a section that lists all Enchantments/Hexes from all prof's


 * Zealous and Vampiric weapons will trigger multiple times. A Zealous weapon will (with high enough expertise) sustain the cost with just three targets. The skill will be Spammable with just two targets due to natural energy regeneration.

''I didn't check the math, but that sounds alright. I have no problems with this.''

Fine as it it


 * Vigorous Spirit will be a great boon.

''Of course it will. Great note!''


 * Hexes such as Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, and Insidious Parasite are extremely dangerous to Barragers.

Because they trigger upon each hit? Yes


 * Adrenaline is gained for each hit, so barrage is a way to gain adrenaline quickly for warriors and paragons.

Or would be, if they didn't need to use up their elite slot for it.

Warriors? may be Para's There are some bow-warriors and bow-paragons out there. Adrenaline is good for spamming shouts


 * Most spirits influencing bow attacks will work on every attack.

''Here's a note that I would like to see expanded, honestly. Which does it not work on?''

Same thing a list of what work and what not


 * Non-preparation attack modifiers will work, including Aggressive Refrain, Burning Refrain

''That sounds about right. Let's keep it, just for fun.''


 * Critical hits are checked individually for each arrow. Each arrow can trigger an assassin's energy gain from the Critical Strikes attribute and the skill Critical Eye. Skills that improve the chance to score a critical hit act on every arrow -- examples include Critical Eye, Way of the Assassin, and Way of the Warrior.

''Perfect! No complaints from me.''

Nothing to add til here

''Mind if I question the math? if you have a 20% chance to hit 1 target with armour penetration, why do you have to hit 3 foes to achieve a 40% chance of penetrating one? Shouldn't that be a 60% chance with 3, and a 40% chance with 2?''
 * For a perfect Sundering bowstring to achieve 20% armor penetration on a target when using Barrage, at least 3 foes need to be fired at to achieve a 40% chance of penetrating one of them.

Dunno i'm bad a math Actually, you might get multiple sunderings, or you might get 1, or you might get 0. You get 80% chance of not sundering per arrow, so 80% * 80% * 80% = 51.2% change that you'll get 0 sunders on 3 arrows, thus 48.8% chance of sundering with at least 1 of 3 arrows. We should change that.

Okay, enough of that. Here's what I would like to propose for the notes section.

Everything other than what I put up can remain the same, and in place of that:


 * Each arrow is treated as a seperate attack. Because of this, effects that trigger on next attack will occur on one of the arrows, and not the others.  Effects that affect the next N attacks, will affect the corresponding number of arrows.
 * Spells like Conjure Frost or Judge's Insight will affect all arrows fired.


 * Hexes which trigger on attack, like Empathy or Spiteful Spirit will deal damage for each arrow fired.
 * The same applies for Enchantments like Vigorous Spirit


 * Critical hits are checked individually for each arrow. Each arrow can trigger an assassin's energy gain from the Critical Strikes attribute and the skill Critical Eye. Skills that improve the chance to score a critical hit act on every arrow -- examples include Critical Eye, Way of the Assassin, and Way of the Warrior.

Alright. Does that look okay to everyone? Did I miss anything? I apologise for the spotty formatting. It's my first time. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.178.96.20.
 * Its apologiZe, Anyway, i like your version better, although it may be a little harsh on new player's ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 00:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, of course. I never can keep that straight.  If it's  harsh on new players, how would you reccomend I..  Ah..  Soften it up? 24.178.96.20 00:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

<font color=#FF0000>New version:
 * Affect the first arrow only
 * Most paragon chants work on the first hit only.
 * Affect many arrows
 * Weapon spells:
 * Nightmare Weapon,Splinter Weapon
 * Affect all arrows
 * Enchantments:
 * Conjure Lightning, Frost, Flame
 * Vigorous Spirit, Live Vicariously
 * Mystic Vigor, Heart of Holy Flame
 * Hexes
 * Empathy
 * Insidious Parasite, Spiteful Spirit
 * Nature Rituals:
 * Favorable Winds, Winnowing
 * Echo's:
 * Aggressive Refrain, Burning Refrain
 * Adrenaline, Sundering, and Criticals are calculated per hit.
 * Adrenaline is quickly gained for Warriors and Paragons, to allow spamming shouts.
 * Chance to sunder with a 20% sundering bow:
 * None of N arrows sunder: 80%^N, e.g. with 3 arrows, gives 51.2%
 * At least 1 arrow in N arrows sunder: 100% - 80%^N, e.g. with 3 arrows, gives 48.8%
 * All of N arrows sunder: 20%^N, e.g. with 3 arrows, gives 0.8%.

Needs a little tweaking and filling-in but its a good start. ~ <font color=#FF0000>Kurd 09:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

<font color=#007777>I like this new version. I added in some comments. Alaris 15:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think everyone missed the point as to what I was getting at. Sorry if it wasn't exactly clear.  What I'm saying is:  do we really need to spell out exactly which spells work with barrage and which don't?  Glitches like (The old) glyph removal makes(Made, whichever) sense, since they 'broke the mold' so to speak, they did something that didn't follow a pattern.  We know, and it is stated that each arrow is treated seperately.  Thanks to that, hexes that hurt you for each attack will trigger multiple times, enchantments will do the same.  Must it be spelled out? 24.178.96.20 19:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)  (Woops, forgot to sign.
 * Yes and no. We don't need to spell it out, but spelling it out does serve as a handy guide, instead of having to sort through the professions and see what is useful to use with Barrage. Given that Barrage (and now volley) are such popular skills, this list of skills really helps designing new builds. Alaris 19:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I'll be around if you want me to grab anything.24.178.96.20 19:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Sundering math
Ok, can someone explain what the point of all this is? For whos benefit is it, and why is it in the Barrage article? Backsword 17:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why that was put there in the first place. It's not like sundering confers other bonuses, unlike criticals. Alaris 18:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it's pointless. I've replaced it with a general note on upgrade components simpler note below the Zealous and Vampiric note. -- Gordon Ecker 05:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Targets
Exactlty how many can you hit with this? 7 correct, up to 6 targets adjacent to your target --Lou-Saydus 17:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it hits your target and 6 other foes. So ideally, it hits 7.--Fallen 02:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Barrage needs an increased area?
Barrage almost never is able to hit 7 targets due to the "adjacent" area, so Volley is almost always a better option. Barrage needs to have "nearby" area.
 * Volley is a good substitute, but barrage recharges faster. Just because of that, you can spam barrage twice instead of volley once. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 23:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Barrage also has bonus damage that is, at most attribute levels, twice as much as Volley's. So unless you *really* feel the need to use a different elite skill, Barrage is always better than Volley, regardless of the number of targets. 76.11.37.57 14:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Incendiary Arrows dwarfs this now. With a preparation you can do a lot more damage than you did with barrage, it also has a much larger range. Combined with splinter weapon it's a lot of fun. finally something can unseat barrage from it's throne. 122.104.165.13 18:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * IMO, barrage+splinter still rules against large groups that are tightly packed. Try it in the snowmen's lair for example. But Incendiary arrows is probably better in most cases, with smaller mobs. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 14:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You're still limitted by how many hits Splinter will activate on... Incendiary is still better imo because Barrage offers like 1 extra use of Splinter per attack, and you can use preps. --  euphoracle  |  talk  20:38, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh Ehm Gee! /signed! I say buff this attack to nearby foes, make it hit up to 4 and have viable (but not OP'd) damage. They must remember which secondary's buffs add damage to it and calculate it accordingly.--Warren G 17:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Barrage has two huge advantages, it recharges quickly and can be spammed indefinately, and Incendiary Arrows requires addional skills to be effective. Thus, Barrage can be the only attack skill on a player, leaving lots of room for other stuff such as Pet and Traps and defense.Oye 18:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3rd advantage: Incendiary Arrows requires Wilderness Survival draining your attribute points. Oye 01:17, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hell, if that's the case then maybe make it 5 recharge and hits foes within area (keep the remove prep. condition). Up the damage, too. It'd fit the description of barrage just perfectly. --Ulterion 18:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, leave the skill exactly as it is. Even on one target, its spammable, costs incredibly little energy with high expertise. The standard Barrager build has been around since god knows when for a reason. It works perfectly just the way it is.
 * Actually, you don't need to put any points in WS for Incendiary Arrows. At 0 WS, IA does +14 damage with burning. If you do put enough points for 2 second burning (3+1 WS), it's +28. Way better than Barrage. <>Sparky, the Tainted 06:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Degeneration cap, spammability, number of attacks. <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  07:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Hang on, I don't think I saw it explained... Barrage removes conditions, but before the attack(s), so none of the arrows are affected, after the first arrow, so one is affected, or after the barrage, so all arrows are affected before removing the prep?208.92.184.201 22:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)Zeke64
 * The last time i did urgoz with some barage / pets it was incredibly funny because i never saw so much people using so much skills to achieve so little. On top of that they were asking to non-ranger professions to bring some spirits because their bar was already full. After a 20 minutes fight in the first room (from hoping vampires to the first door), one of them did brag: "barage owned them". Maybe in 4 or 6 years, when he will discover that balanced guild grps of 6 men were doing better than their 9 baragers + 2 monks and battery necro in half the time, they will hope that nobody remember what he said. Yseron - 90.28.82.196 23:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

One-hit
On skills that affect only one arrow (such as Poison Tip Signet), do they affect the target, or simply the first arrow that hits as they do with IA? Maybe make a note of it on the page. <>Sparky, the Tainted 13:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * first foe hit, imo... don't use it with PTS tbh =p78.20.153.111 08:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Affects all arrows
Add Great Dwarf Weapon? Seriously, + even more damage and KD% chance? You could easily take out just about everything in PvE with a team of those.--98.196.21.66 23:50, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I saw that in a Tombs farming team build some time ago on PvX... Paddymew 10:55, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

For a W/R, does the armor penetration % from the Strength attribute apply to each arrow? --Silver Edge 23:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. All arrowscount as a separate attack. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg {U|T|C} 23:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Good luck managing energy, though.114.77.108.48 15:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Wtb zealous bowstring. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  16:39, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

why preperationS
I still don't know why it says all preparations are when you can only have one preparation active at a time. Should just says "your preparation is removed". Ramei Arashi
 * That makes it seem like you have one... and worse maybe that you NEED to have one... should just say "Any preparation." | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 05:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

?
is it just me or is there a horn sound when you use this skill?AurenX 03:05, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Rangers have several skills that sound like horns or something when you use them, I know at least one preparation does (and I just can't remember which). <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  03:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * didnt know that lol, guess i dont play ranger enough >.>AurenX 00:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Icon
How About you change it to the modest mouse album cover "Good news for people who love bad news" At least for guild wars 2 lol Hidan Santai 03:45, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Note
"Primary PvP-only Rangers will be able to use this skill, even if it is not unlocked on your account." Nope. I can use "Escape" without unlocking it, not "Barrage". --<font color="Black">Animus  15:39, 20 March 2011 (UTC)