Talk:Game updates/20071129

Anet screwed every1's connection up in AB 24.141.45.72 00:35, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Shadow Prison
Well... compare Shadow Prison to Dark Prison... not much difference anymore except for the elite status.
 * ya rly &mdash; Skakid9090 00:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Longer and larger snare, slightly faster recharge. About right for the difference between an elite and non-elite skill. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if you compare it to what it once was... it was originally a superior version of Dark Prison, similar as to what Energy Surge is to Energy Burn. Now it's just a marginally more useful skill, an elite one at that. People will probably still run it, though -.- Saphatorael 01:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Superior" versus "more useful" - seems like a rather arbitrary distinction, considering I could simply say "marginally superior" and mean the same thing. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you miss the point Aiiane... Dark Prison is a MUCH better skill now. The ONLY reason people brought SP over DP is the recharge. Everything else was a moot point. To justify bringing a shadow step as your elite, it HAS to be more spamable than the alternative non elites. This now suffers from the same problem ranger interupts did. Although Punishing Shot is undeniably better than Savage Shot, who cares because savage is almost as good. There is problem with distance between the elites and the non elites and this now suffers from it. Anon

Seems right to just give it 5 energy cost, 5 recharge, and cause exhaustion. After all, you need 30 seconds to fully recover from exhaustion. So it functions similar to recharge, but give it more flexibility. Lightblade 09:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And effectively reducing Assassins' maximum energy pools to 25-30. Let's not. --71.229.204.25 09:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So SP has been hung out to dry for a bit, good riddance. While we're on the subject of elite worthiness, remember how it was to start with: 5e, 20r, 4 seconds of 66% snare without any deadly arts compared to the 10e, 45r, 1 second of 33% snare without deadly arts. Looking at that, Shadow prison was simply many many time better in every respect. Not even elites should obselete a skill like that, now it's just a marginally better choice than dark prison, the sort of thing you'd take if your assassin combo doesn't need an elite for some other reason. --Ckal Ktak 18:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

SoJ Sins
Are they dead now or not? I figure they are still somewhat usefull if you have Castigation Signet in your build. -- Hawk Skeer  00:46, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I sincerly hope so /pray nerf sp tho?? common, u alredy kill trampling and HoTo.24.141.45.72 00:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They need to nerf death blossum and moebius strike. &mdash; Skakid9090 00:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh heck NO! I never see anyone using those in PvP. And lots of PvE sin build rely on those two skills. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png]] 00:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * No they don't. It's the only real combo that lets Assassins really deal damage in PvE, and it doesn't even get rid of their fragility. Critical Agility + Critical Defenses does that. And if that already takes up 5-6 slots (counting a lead and/or off-hand), it seems quite 'balanced' for PvE. Saphatorael 00:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No they don't need to nerf that. If they nerf moebius strike, I'm done with sins. I rely on moebius strike a lot. Use to rely on HoTo to, but anet ruined that.
 * Don't feed the troll, which is exactly what Skadid's comment is. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * (2 conflicts) Are you kidding? Seriously, give some reasons why :s &mdash; Skuld 00:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * gonna see tomorrow if this nerf to deadly paradox ruined my fun in team arenas, guess not but if it does then curse u izzy --Cursed Angel [[Image:User_Cursed_Angel_Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 01:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC).
 * This has killed it. The one way to kill an SoJ sin was to deny its energy. Well, here you go, +10 energy to maintain that stance every 12 seconds or so is a LOT for a sin with no other e-management. RIP SoJ.71.162.185.191 02:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Troll food! Lord Belar 01:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, tested mine and he works just as well as pre-nerf. To balance SoJ sins I would suggest that Entangling Asp & Signet of Toxic Shock both be made to cause exhaustion, and make Dancing Daggers use 10 energy instead of 5, and extend the recharge time on it. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png]] 14:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is if you nerf assassins too much, no one will play them, and nerfs wil cut into other builds. For instance doing sig of toxic shock will interrupt my condition spike assassin. Don't nerf an assassin so much so that they cant do their job anymore. leave them as is for a while.
 * Yes I'm kidding ;o &mdash; Skakid9090 01:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Zaishen Chest
Must be a bug... I hope they don't ban people for using it, it doesn't sound as exploity as some of the other bugs and a GM has frozen all the people trying to enter the Isle of the Nameless so it didn't last long. 122.104.226.221 01:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * lol my greed made me stuck there :( wish i got there before --Cursed Angel [[Image:User_Cursed_Angel_Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 01:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Diessa Icon
I didn't think they would do this, too bad. I know a few people who lost A LOT of money because of this. You never saw anyone using this item either. They should have added it to the game, with an energy deduction mod to counter the uberness. Anon

Cry of Pain
Playing a Mesmer myself, I really do hope this is a "please notice me, but once you did, I'm gonna be nerfed back to what I was before"-Update. Cry of Pain ALREADY punked all Elementalist nukes for HM/Elite Missions, the only reason parties were still looking for Eles there is sheer ignorance (and the word IS spreading, albeit slowly). This buff obliterated Eles from high-end PvE, it will just take a while for ppl to realize it. ;) And Cry of Pain was ALREADY nailed to every PvE mesmer's skill bar. Unless they wanted a challenge, which gets more and more of a compelling reason for me.. spamming 3-digit armor-ignoring damage with the best AoE in the game is fun for a while, but not the reason I created a Mesmer (close to the reason why my Ele is a mule, however). 134.130.4.46 08:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You forget, they still want more mesmers in PvE. And making a gimmicky skills like this even better is an effective method. --Ckal Ktak 18:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I think that ALL the Sunspear and Kurzick/Luxon skills should be buffed, except a few. With the overpowered EotN skills, no one is going to take the time to farm kurzick/luxon or sunspear points to get that 1% more spell damage on intensity, or the 3 more seconds of +1 to all attributes in case of ele. Imho, revert Elemental Lord back to +2 to attributes, make intensity as it was before the nerf, and buff all the other underpowered Kurzick, Luxon, and Sunspear skills to EotN-standard power.
 * Max Sunspear doesn't take long to get, only like 6 hours. I do, however, agree about the luxon/kurzick skills. It takes like 300 times the amount of time for those titles. &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 01:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I am well aware they want more mesmers in PvE, and I agree with that goal. Just not with the means. And that's because Cry is not "a gimmicky skill", but THE BEST NUKE IN THE GAME, if you're into HM/Elite missions. Compare to the other sunspear better-than-a-pvp-elite skills for underpowered classes, Critical Agility and "There's Nothing to Fear!": Both are ridiculously high-powered as well, but they both support their class in their job: dishing out single-target damage (plus staying alive while doing it) and buffing the party, respectively. (There's also Spear of Fury for the other part of a Pargon's job.) Did I miss "nuking everything in sight" in the Mesmer's job description? Buffing the mesmer should be done by (preferably adding/modifying Monsters to require shutdown, but failing that by) buffing their ability to shutdown mobs, not by turning them into alternate Eles. Nor by making Eles take Mesmer secondary, paying 3 Skillslots for Hex, Cry, AEcho and still coming out way ahead of any Ele nukes they could have picked up instead. So a reasonable way to buff Cry, if they really thought that necessary, would have been adding AoE interrupt (ideally "each foe struck by Cry of Pain that is suffering from a Mesmer Hex is interrupted as well"), not by making it last 3 rather than 2 casts in AEcho. As for Kurzick/Luxon skills, I agree maxing them, or even getting close to, is unreasonable for a normal PvE player, but most scale very poorly (with the notable exception of Triple Shot). Getting rank 4 in either Title, which is both very achieveable and a nice breakpoint, will give you good skills to play with. Not as overpowered as EOTN skills, but very usable. And leaving some headroom for those that do FFF/AB all day seems fair. The problem with Elemental Lord and pre-nerf Intensity is that they're passive: activate, then nuke as usual, only harder. And A.net doesn't like that. 134.130.4.46 09:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I would vehemently disagree with this being better than Ele nukes. This is a single skill without much utility; using it as a nuke, you aren't timing it to interrupt anything (thus defeating its utility)... but comparing it to, say, Met Shower, is foolish (as met shower is a better skill by far). Cry is really damned conditional (unlike all good ele nukes, namely RI) and requires AEcho to be of any use; even then, primary mesmers have to supplement lots of energy to "nuke" with it (15e to echo, 10e each "nuke"). Add on that eles can (and do, if they're good) take Mind Blast to fuel not only nukes but plenty of other skills (like Great Dwarf Weapon spammed on wars and imbagons). A mesmer trying to do that would be out of energy in like five seconds. Cry being armor-ignoring is the least they could have done for it, because it really isn't that great a skill.
 * I also agree with 134.130 that ANet shouldn't be trying to make mesmers nukers. PvE-only spells that were mostly copies of commonly-used spells but AoE is a better plan; throwing Backfire, Empathy or Diversion on an entire mob of enemies would be effective without sacrificing what mesmers are meant to do. Oh, I wouldn't mind a AoE Shatter Enchant either :P
 * (Note that trying to do AoE shutdown now takes an obscene amount of time and energy; even if you managed to get enough copies to do so, via Echo or Glyph of Renewal, throwing backfire on 3 things drains your blue bar pretty much completely). - Auron 09:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Bonus Mission Pack
Is it just me, or does their update for how the bonus mission pack works and its unlocks and all that read like the fine print on a credit card offer? Why can nothing be simple anymore. --136.142.163.55 14:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Buy stuff worth 'W' or more in online shop inbetween date 'X' and date 'Y' to get bonus pack for free on date 'Z'. Pretty simple concept really. --Ckal Ktak 18:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe he was referring to the in-game portion of it, with the stories and scribes and whatnot. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 18:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I was indeed referring to the ingameportions of it. --136.142.163.55 20:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Balancing a game is a complicated thing. Everything they did makes sense when you understand it, and without the complexity of the way they introduced it there would be big flaws (market flood). Anon
 * That BMP have not sense. A lot of peaople playing GW, can't buy in official store, why sms payment it's so useless, plz do something in future to give possible to buy other players guild wars to buy it. Wrzosek 07:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC

The promotion for this BMP was sent out at the same time as GW:EN Pre-Realase/Order stuff... so you could have easily just Pre-Ordered GW:EN in the In-Game Store when it came out that day and qualified for the Pre-Release Weekend AND the BMP. This is what I told all of my Guildies in ]HM[ to do... was to wait for the In-Game Store GW:EN Pre-Order and then get it there to open up the BMP free... This was the #1 point of the BMP... so that the money for GW:EN would go directly to ANET/NCSoft. I feel thats reason of BMP... to reward people for buying directly from ANET/NCSoft... that way they get 100% profit instead of a shared profit with a retail store at the same retailed price... I personally have no problem with that, thats just business sense on ANET/NCSoft. Kudos! SabreWolf 12:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)