Talk:Zaishen Challenge Quest/may-december09

Archive 1
I archived the page, because it was over 100kb, so let's hope I did it right. --D AV  A   14:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fair, I think.
 * Let the QQing resume.-- [[Image:User_Vanguard_VanguardLogo.png|19px]] anguard  17:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't QQers just leave?--D AV  A  [[Image:User Dav Tick green.png]] 17:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Future reward balancing
As per Talk:Verata_(Zaishen_quest), anyone think they might balance the rewards a little? Many people completely skip entire days not because it's especially difficult, but because the rewards don't match the effort. Thoughts?--  anguard  17:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * They should make the reward 75 coins, cause the vengeful aataxes are worth the 105.--D AV  A  [[Image:User Dav Tick green.png]] 17:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Different Rewards
Would anyone like the idea of having different rewards for each repeated quest? Like:

May 5th, 2009, random arenas. Win 5 battles (50 coints) BONUS: Win 5 battles in a row (25 coins) Bonus: Win 10 battles (150 coins) -- August 7th, 2009, Random Arenas (2)

Win 5 battles (50 coins) Bonus: Win 10 battles in a row. (200 coins) Bonus: Win 30 battles (300 coins)

Something like that?--D AV  A   17:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 30 victories would take a longass time, and I'd want more than 300 (6 silver) for a reward.-- [[Image:User_Vanguard_VanguardLogo.png|19px]] anguard  17:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It;s about the idea. ;)--D AV  A  [[Image:User Dav Tick green.png]] 18:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The idea's good but rather than just having different numbers of wins, maybe like "Win a flawless victory", "Win 5 in a row", "Win X in total", maybe "Win 10 in a row" but only occasionally as it's relatively tricky et.c. then mix and match them to give a bit more variance, especially since there are only a few PvP ones they can actually do. 82.3.246.41 19:31, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think the idea's good. Way too much work for such an unnecessary addition. Anet's got other more important work to attend to than some hilarious changes. I'm 100% it's not gonna happen so I'm not even sure why we're discussing this. - Reanimated X 19:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What an obnoxious attitude.   [[Image:User_Riven_sigicon.png]]    09:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

This all sounds great for PvPr's but for those who PvE a lot, they get screwed already as it is, so why reward PvPr's any more than they already are? I'd rather see that the PvE challenges be repeatable too. Considering most of them are low on coinage rewards as it is, I don't see what harm it would do if you could repeat them. I think it would be cool also if there was an occasional random bonus that you might receive when accepting your reward, like maybe more coins, or a summoning stone or something like that, just so there can be a surprise or anticipation of a possible bonus for completing quest 'x'. I know some players who won't even touch a quest unless the max reward is at least 50 copper, and in most cases higher than that. --209.194.208.116 14:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * PvE quests aren't repeatable because then they can be farmed. Bounties can be run. You could get thousands of coins in an hour.

"30 victories would take a longass time, and I'd want more than 300 (6 silver) for a reward." lol. No longer than 9 FA wins. And that's a huge reward for a single quest. --''' Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 15:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * And how would that be any different from a lot the PvE aspects? Besides, if you look at some of the bounties, they can't all be run, and certainly wouldn't be that quick to repeat within an hour.  Such as end bosses in dungeons or missions.  Not to mention that you're over exaggerating how many coins you could get in an hour even for those 'easily' run bounties since most of those aren't worth too many coins in the first place.  i.e. Even if you could complete a 50 coin bounty in 1 minute, that's a mere 3000 coins in an hour, and that's not taking into account zoning out to get the reward and quest again before repeating it.  Yeah technically 3000 would be 'thousands in an hour', but in reality none of the bounties have been that quick, and even if they were the reward would be so low that it wouldn't amount to much even in an hour.  Even if they aren't made repeatable, which I doubt they will be, at least some of the PvE rewards should be looked at because some are far too low for the quest.  The idea is to encourage players to play, so make it worthwhile to them to complete an entire dungeon to kill the end boss, rather than offering a paltry amount of coins that really isn't worth the trouble in some cases. Anyway, it is also 'technically' possible to also farm some of the PvP quests(whether for coins or faction), so your argument is somewhat flawed.--209.194.208.116 18:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You still get the normal dungeon rewards, and on top of that, some Zcoins, gold and rep points. Combined, it's a pretty nice reward for your effort. 145.94.74.23 13:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Sort option for the tables
We should have the option of sorting the tables in this article based on their columns. So it would be possible, for example, to sort the Zaishen Mission quests table based on the name of the mission, or on the experience given, or on the amount of gold given, or on campaign it belongs to, etc. That's the same kind of sorting that is available, for example, on the skill tables. Does someone know how to implement that? Erasculio 01:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This was actually already attempted but as shnown on this revision there were some issues caused by the header row. Although if you can fix this sorting issue it would be a good idea to have them sortable. -- Kakarot [[Image:User Kakarot Sig.gif|Talk]] 03:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as we have a "double header row" (with the copper coin reward) I think it will mess up. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 07:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone should fix the javascript for that... it is easy so implement for our needs. The bad thing is it needs to be overwritten directly in the js file on the server so it is very unlikely to happen. Asuka 13:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of reworking the javascript, how about just removing that double header and noting somewhere outside the table that all rewards are in copper coins? Unless they change later to have some rewards so high that they end up giving out silver or gold coins (doubtful), it shouldn't be an issue. Freedom Bound 17:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A double header can be faked by putting one table inside another. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 19:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

190
Lowest max reward yet (minus of course if you PvE or PvP-exclusively). Then again, Gates of Kryta and Ghial are probably the easiest and fastest ZQ yet. --8765 16:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Growing page size
Should the pve quests get their own page? Assuming a finite number of pvp quests that the page could hold, the pve quest list could get quite long. Maybe have just the current week's quests shown. Obie Quiet 17:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd to the following: Put the three tables that list all options on seperate pages. Archive the Zuest list every month. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 14:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. - B ex [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif]] 14:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd suggest leaving only the first table on this page; put each of the other three on the pages they correlate to like Zaishen Mission. --Star Weaver 17:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that I put the missions and bosses on a seperate page - we shouldn't forget to update it!! --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 21:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Max Reward Column
The total on this column is becoming rather irrelevant, and will only become more so. Are there any plans to archive the quest list (top level) on a monthly basis or so? Maybe one of those expanding show/hide things for each month/week? That way we could see an avg reward for a week, avg reward for a month, etc.? Or would that be better on a research page where we could also start trying to see if patterns are developing in terms of quest/bounty selection (which campaign they're tied to)? Freedom Bound 16:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * IMO it should be archived at a page such as Zaishen Challenge Quest/Research. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The max reward isn't even correct anymore, with the PvP quests being repeatable. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 08:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been correct since the storage bug was fixed and one could collect from multiple characters. Backsword 08:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with the separation of the Zaishen quest list reward totals under research. The totals are not outright significant with the bug fixes and mechanics for obtaining the quests. - Decollete 15:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Newest Quests First?
Was just thinking it might make more sense (especially if we get more quests in each month) to put the newer ones first instead of at the bottom. Agree/disagree? --The Penalty Of Sin 15:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, I like it the way it is, but I could go either way. Let me put it this way, if we don't start archiving the previous ones, I'd prefer newest at the top, since that way I won't have to scroll through two screens to get to the most recent one. But, if the old ones are archived, I think newest at the bottom is fine. Freedom Bound 15:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * DEFINITELY agree. Newest first is the way to go. Oldest first doesn't make sense at all. Newest first is a must. 24.117.66.14 16:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with newest quests on top of the list. Easier to view which Zaishen Quests are available for the day. - Decollete 15:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Trivia
Don't you find it weird that even though today's mission is a Factions one, when asked about the quest the Zaishen Mission still responds with ''The battle rages on! All able-bodied heroes should hasten to defend those bravely protecting Tyria.'' ? - Reanimated X 17:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Bug for that particular mission's page, maybe, not really trivia, unless it gets to the point where it happens on a bunch of different missions. Also, does it say that in game, or just on the wiki? The latter might just be a bad copy/paste. Freedom Bound 18:03, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was the person to create today's mission page and yes I did check the Zaishen Mission's response. It was the same as I wrote it.
 * Do you happen to have any outstanding Zquests that take place in Tyria? Freedom Bound 18:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a Tyria vs. Tyria understanding conflict here :) poke | talk 18:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Many names are used for the same thing, many things have the same name. This is just an example of one of those occurrences. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 12:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

The Chart is getting very large
It definitely needs some sort of plan to store past data. Perhaps a bit like Nicholas the Hunter's page with a sub-page for past data. I think 1 month is a good sorting point, with the current month on the current page. I don't know anything about creating templates, so I don't know whats viable, but that seems reasonable doesn't it? Moo 02:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * /agree Sarge 12:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I imagine that when the chart gains significant length, it will be archived. It is not currently large enough to warrant the effort. Besides, we do want to keep a running tally on the number of total coins.  Drago  17:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am another proponent of a Nicholas Sandford-style archive of the Mission and Bounty after a certain point. I disagree that there is any particular value to the Max Reward column, now that we are in excess of the capability to trade in for any of the rewards, given that coins can be pooled accross your account.  Additionally, though it is mostly from curiousity, I would be interested in seeing a repeat analysis on the PvP quests, similar to Nicholas Sandford's.  Adeira Tasharo 21:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Each moth should be enough. We could create subpages per month or per section, and archive the sections to those subpages each month. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 23:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Accessibility
Is it just me or is the area around the flags to get the mission flawed? I click on it to get the mission and my character often sidesteps left and right repeatedly without actually approaching the flag to get the mission. It seems that if there is more than one other person getting a quest then you can't. I get the impression that the "area" of interface with these flags is extremely small. All I know is that they are a pain in the a55 to try to get to in order to pick up a quest. Has anyone else come accross this problem? --Stu 08:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's cause the flags are NPCs and have annoying blocking volumes around them. - B ex [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif]] 09:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Can this be fixed? Are Anet aware of it?--Stu 11:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's probably a general trait of NPC... Not sure for what purpose, though. Anyways, it could be fixed somehow by moving flags little further from each other. Mediggo 11:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Really if you go at them from a distance and a straight path, you wont have this problem. The problem occurs mostly when you go towards a flag at an angle or you run from one flag to another, and you run into the other flag's block volume. It works pretty much the same as how navigating through groups of NPCs in EotN works, considering that pathfinding in EotN is terrible. If you control your character instead of merely clicking the flag to auto run, this problem becomes almost non-existent. The easiest ways to fix this would be to make the flags block volume fit the flags' shape, as a rectangular block instead of a square, which it currently is, or making the interface area larger so that it encompasses the block volume entirely. And yes, block volume is a trait of most NPCs, its a method to add realism to the game by making it where you cant just walk through NPCs in games, they effectively are body blockers. Having it where you could just go through them would make it look quite awkward. The only places where NPCs don't block in this way is where the NPC would hinder the game play by doing so, or would cause severe pathfinding errors (The flag error is not severe, you can just sidestep manually and solve it entirely). By being through the game I've noticed that they choose to block with NPCs as rarely as possible as the game progressed through the campaigns.-- Neithan Diniem User Neithan Diniem Sig.png]] 16:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but they are also quite close together. Moving them apart would ease the congestion a bit, especially since there are normally loads of people clustered about them (and I know they don't block you but they're a bit annoying). Not a massive issue, imo, but it would be an improvement. 81.110.25.23 12:45, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Non-core classes left out again
It seems the non-core classes get forgotten in every corner of the game. One para/war boss, and one assassin boss. Got to fit more searing flames bosses in I guess. 76.84.34.210 17:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There are more core class bosses. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 18:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In the proportion of the bosses chosen as bounties? 76.84.34.210 02:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In the game. Prophecies doesn't have any expansion profession bosses and Factions doesn't have any Nightfall profession bosses, but Eye of the North and all three campaigns have bosses from all six core professions. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Here's an idea
Instead of giving CASH in player versus player quests, why not give stuff that PvPers will actually use, like gladiator points or fame? Not a lot, but enough to make it worthwhile. Because atm, PvPers have no use for money these quests reward, while PvEers have every use for everything given there (faction for keys, coins for bags, etc). Just a thought, I don't PvP for money -.- ''' Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 15:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * True.. a reward of HB, HA, RA, TA and GvG could be a very small amount of extra points towards the title. For example only when you completed every bonus. Otherwise i'd go for tournament reward points or increased balthazar faction. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 15:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * /agree, never thought about an increase in cap. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  15:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There needs to be some cash rewards for PvP characters, otherwise they wouldn't be able to pay for some of the cash costs from the reward vendors. Now, admittedly they need to be rebalanced since they don't need to be that large, but they still needs to be some cash involved.--Ryan Galen 17:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm a PvE-er who has a PVP character. The cash rewards do help.-- [[Image:User_Vanguard_VanguardLogo.png|19px]] anguard  20:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And if they ever add weapon upgrade traders, those cash rewards would be the a good way to pay for upgrades to use in Zaishen and HoH weapon drops without having to trade with other players if you are using a PvP-only account. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 00:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why complain about the PvP rewards when they're giving a lot more Coins per run than the PvE stuff is? Ya got any idea how frustrating it is to try and join some of these PvE pugs for HM on these missions that should be relatively routine but always turns into Cat Herding instead?  Atleast PvP'ers know how to work as a team.  Meanwhile PvE areas are literally infested with so many bad players trying to get free rides in HardMode that they should be considered bannable Leechers. ...they're THAT bad at following simple directions and making intelligent builds on-the-fly. -- ilr  06:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe you are bad a looking for parties. Last... well... almost in all PUGs I got for ZQuests, the party did it just fine. There was one bad pug once, but I left and entered another one that made it right in no time. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:14, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Or maybe it's that 1) you're just lucky with PUGs, or 2) most Zaishen quests are easy enough. =P Mediggo 13:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OH GOD NO! Do you know how much these quests encourage farming players already? Zkeys are essentially gold for most PvPers. I would say a hell of a lot of PvPers are happy to get gold for PvPing. Misery  14:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have only ever lost once in a HM pug and that was because both of the monks timed out. There's nothing wrong with the pve pugs if you simply ask people to ping their damn builds and reject the monks casting death magic, or warriors using Banish...  Even players who are brain-dead can still run pvx wiki builds with moderate competence... --  euphoracle  |  talk  20:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whichever day it was with Borlis pass.. I joined 4 PuGs who ALL pinged their builds before hand and ran PvX FotM's but couldn't even get past the bloody Centaurs because the backline people all insisted on standing out in the open instead of behind all the Moguls to either side of the path (out of line of Sight from the archers) while refusing to focus fire on the one lousy Protector first. All of them were literally that stupid that they couldn't figure out why they kept dying while failing to kill some lousy level 23 ranger mobs.  I shit you not.  This happened again, and again, and again until I just decided to H/H it and steamroll the entire mission alone.  The day before that, everyone was failing the ThristyRiver mission twice as hard. Yet the bulk of this page seems to be commenting that these HM missions can be run so quickly in PuGs that it would be faster than PvP.  Well this is me saying I've experienced the exact opposite.  YMMV, but mine most certainly hasn't.  And I bet if I go to Gate of Pain mission right now, I will experience these same PuGs failing Thrice as hard as that mission is even tougher than the previous two because most PuGs fail badly at spiking Torment creatures.  Don't tell me it's "easy", PvP'ing with competent players is Easy.  PvE'ing with MORONS isn't, and should yield the biggest Copper Coin rewards yet there is still no system to detect Horrible players. -- ilr  22:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "...yet there is still no system to detect Horrible players..." Isnt displaying certain titles (like -A God Walking Amongst Mortals-) a good indication that a given player is at least competant? --Falconeye 05:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's not. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 05:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL! Yeah I WISH the'd bring some totally Imba skills so then atleast they wouldn't fail so much.  But seriously... I wish there was a non-exploitable system to reward us for putting up with Mongoloids. (no, not mongoloids like me, mongoloids like them) -- ilr  08:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * pve hard lolursofunny. Easy as 1, 2, 3... 4, 5, 6, 7, 71/2, 8, 9, need I go on? Any mission can be H/H'd anyway, so don't complain about PUGs... -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  16:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't understand the problem. There are players so stupid than even using all of those they still fail. See a PUG trying to do Aurora Glade ("what do you mean, I have to run a crystal? Can't I just spam Barrage?") or the bonus on the Nightfall mission leading to Vabbi ("what is this sign telling me to not go there? I think I'll go there to see what was all that about") or any other similar thing. That isn't going to prevent me from finishing any mission given how anyone can just H/H stuff, but that doesn't change how incredibly bad some PUGs are. Erasculio 20:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Some truth here. I have had no problem with PUGs, except those that require some level of strategy. As long as it is just 'follow the lader and fight', PUGs do fine. Backsword 21:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't buy this freaking game to play by myself. I go to missions to play with other humans and to have a fun time doing it.  But the way this Z-coin system seems to be set up, it's like everyone and their brother attempts Hardmode/Bonus whether they're capable of it or not.  Something just isn't working right here.  Something that is supposed to be a fun and "Social" way to gradually earn more storage space is revealing itself to be a Frustrating Grind instead. -- ilr  21:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, not gradually. Equipment packs can't be upgraded. I have no problem in most areas, but I just wish that in some cases paying to a SF runner wans't the only way to do something, just because almost no one makes the mission, and the few that do it... well... die on me astonishingly quick as if it were impossible to them to chck the wiki get some hints and bring a build according to that info, and then leave the party and go pay the SF runner like everyone else, and then, I finally have to yield and pay the runner too. Paying the rusher should be a fast but expensive alternative, not the only available way. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 00:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Q.Q -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  16:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So I take it you're an Anti-Intellectual then, Gah? Personally, I think "as if it were impossible to them to chck the wiki get some hints and bring a build according to that info" is the just cause which embodies the entire reason this Wiki exists... -- ilr  22:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "I didn't buy this freaking game to play by myself." Then don't complain when you play with terrible people. You're saying that you are choosing to play with people; so be prepared to accept what that means. There are idiots everywhere, be it in Guild Wars or the real world; if you're really that annoyed by PUGs, then run with Heroes and henchmen and stop complaining. Or, another option: if you're really that frustrated, wait a few days before attempting a zquest with people so that there are less noobs. Or, run with guildmates. Or stop doing the zquests. Really, there are plenty of ways to fix your "problem", you just don't want to see them. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  23:41, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ever since we are kids, we learn by trial and error, and by looking what others do. If someone takes you by the hand, if you can't join others and see what they do or if there is some kind of easy way that almost never fails, players don't learn. There is a saying: "The lions throws his cubs off a cliff. That's one of the obvious reasons against 7 heroes. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 01:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

zaishen combat
has anyone worked out an order to it yet, like is it random or does it seem to follow a set pattern? -- Lemming 21:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked out my GW.Dat file today, and you can see the upcoming quests for the week. Search for the ZaishenOSQLS, found somewhere at the end.  There is no order for them.--<font color="Black">D  AV  A  [[Image:User Dav Tick green.png]] 09:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely this can somehow be used to our advantage? That's pretty cool that they've put this for a week. It atleast means i can make sure my characters have the available outposts.--Smithy-Star 21:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Two quests at the same time is still possible on one character.
I just noticed this yesterday. I had HA quest already in my quest log from the last HA day. I came to Great Temple of Balthazar half an hour before quests are supposed to change. After half an hour, when i went to Zaishen Combat Banner, there was a HA quest available, so i took it (i didn't zone or change district during this half an hour), resulting 2 HA quests. Before i went to the banner, there wasn't questgiver-mark above it, but it appeared as soon as i "talked" to it. - <font color="Black">J.P.  <font color="Black">Talk  11:50, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the reason for that is that each quest still has a unique quest id. So there are multiple ids for the same quest, and I think it is just checked if the same quest id is there multiple times. poke | talk 11:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But when i had HB quest in my log and i went to GToB after the quests have changed, i didn't get the second HB quest. I just think that you have to be there before they change the quests. - <font color="Black">J.P. [[Image:User Jope12 sigicon.png]] <font color="Black">Talk  12:10, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This latest HA quest must have been different in a way, there may be multiple instances of it in the pool and this one may have a different id. Still, it allowed me to pick up it as the 3rd HA quest on one of my chars - yes, I have 3 active HA quests on one char now, screenshotted for proof. They are the 2 first HA quests from April and the yesterday one - this char was NOT able to pick up the 10th May one as it's 3rd.... But at the same time my 2 another chars both have the 10th May HA quest, but one could and one could'nt pick up the yesterday's HA quest as the double. The ones that could were all PvP chars, one that couldn't is a PvE... so it may not be caused by quest id'd at all, but some other reason.--<font color="#D09010">Yawg [[image:User_Yawg_Pumpkin_Crown.png|Yawg]] 15:26, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Editing
The page can't be edited for some reason.. - Reanimated X 16:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it was because parts of this page were transcluded in the main page, which had the cascading protection feature enabled. I've removed that, so this page should be editable now. -- [[Image:User Brains12 circle sig.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Repeatable???
At the very bottom of the page it says this:

"The Zaishen Combat Quests are repeatable, but note that as with many repeatable quests, you will have to leave and re-enter the area in order to get the quest again."

I've tried for several days, for me this is definately not working. Has anyone else been able to do this?

Moi
 * Did you turn in the quest, or already have the quest in your log? Also, did you check if you have already 3 quests?152.226.7.213 06:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The COMBAT Quest is indeed repeatable. Example: Today, you take the RA quest and finish the 5 first wins. You turn in the quest. The banner will not update and give you the quest back yet. You have to re-enter the area (example: go to another district) with that character in order to get it. You will ONLY get the quest that is available today, and ONLY when you have less then 3 quests already under Zaishen Combat Quests and ONLY when today's quest is not in your quest log already. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 07:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks to me more like a bug or like a remnant of the Factions repeatable that like an intended behavior. With factions repeatable quests, it is normal to get them, make them, and having to come back again to make them, since you will have probably killed most of the enemies on the way of making the quest, and the area must be reset to make the quest again (Excepting the Kurzick Duel of the Houses, no enemies on the way). But if you are in an outpost, there's nothing to reset, so why not giving the quest again right away?. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 11:49, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

When I accept the bonus and go to another district it tell sme something like:

There are no more quests available.... Not sure what the rest was, new quests came in again. This also means I completed all Z-quests and have none in my log. I have this with both Mission and bounty. I can't get the days quest a second time on the same character.

Seems like what you mean is only finishing the first part of the quest not all 2 or 3 parts including bonus and HM. Like do 5 Ra, 5 in a row and 15 would be the combat quest completed. I'll try and see if that works. Not the same though.
 * ONLY Combat Quests are repeatable.. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 17:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Table sorting
I have edited the Combat Quests table to allow for sorting. To get the sorting to work properly I had to rearrange the column order, but aside from that it seems to work nicely. I can fix up the other tables easily enough, but if I did so they would also need to be reordered, and any new entries would require class="sortbottom" to be added to the row. If there is general consensus that this works and is fine I will be happy to monitor the page and try to keep the sorting working! Garrett 17:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I vote that it works and is fine. :) Freedom Bound 18:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Perfect Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 22:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * After faffing around for ages with different methods of sorting these tables, I have come to the conclusion that it isn't possible to sort them properly with the subheaders in place. Even the Combat Quests table doesn't work correctly right now (check the sorting by Gold, it is sorting them alphabetically not as numbers).
 * To have the tables sort correctly either we need to have some more advanced sorting extension installed, or we need to redesign the tables so they don't have subheaders. I imagine the latter will be easier! Garrett 02:26, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That discussion was had above (Sort option for the tables). IMO, we should remove the double-header. Freedom Bound 11:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Combat Quest Cycle
While waiting patiently for a certain combat quest to come up again, I've noticed some things. It may yet be too early to tell, but I'm pretty sure the cycle started over on 25 May. Each of the combat quests was done exactly 4 times from 23 April to 24 May, which is unusual if it was really random, and so far it's 4/4 on repeating. --C2Talon 21:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not June yet where I am.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  21:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, 24 April to 25 June is ~62 days. There are 8 combat quests, 8 x 4 = 32 != 62.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 21:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So I don't know which English month it is. Sue me. Fixed. --C2Talon 21:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * they dont really cycle ,watch hero battles, goes from 4 days, to 5 days, to 8 days to longer then 14 days,--Li Ngalfar
 * What C2Talon is saying does not contradict what you've noted. If the cycle is very long, what you're noting could just start repeating. With the combat quests, though, it could take a very long time to know for sure, since there are so few quests available. Freedom Bound 01:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems to be a 32 day cycle in which each quest comes up 4 times in a set order. And yes, I've been particularly watching the hero battle quest, and that's partly why I noticed the pattern.
 * On 26 May, I was discussing how long it's been since the last HB quest with my guild and we were convinced that 27 May would be HB day. I looked at the list to see which quest had been done the least, because maybe that would be the next one. Then I noticed everything prior to 25 May had been done exactly 4 times. Then I noticed that 25-26 May was GvG and AB, I looked at the bottom of the list and saw that the first and second quests were the same, so I took a look at the third and jokingly told my guild that 27 May wasn't going to be HB day, and that it's probably going to be TA day. And it was.
 * Not convinced? Maybe I can just predict the future?
 * 31 May = 29 April = Random Arenas
 * 01 June = 30 April = Heroes' Ascent
 * 02 June = 01 May = Fort Aspenwood
 * 03 June = 02 May = Hero Battles
 * I'm sure you get the idea. At least until Anet throws a monkey wrench in there anyway. --C2Talon 10:31, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You seems to have right (Titus andronicus 16:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC))
 * i checked the whole tabel, i came to the same conclusion C2T came on, and it seemed the cycle restarted recently, if we get Heroes Ascent, Fort Aspenwood, Hero Battles, Guild Versus Guild etc. in that order again, then C2T's statement is indeed correct and he solved the mystery of the Zaishen Combat Quest Cycle, C2talon for president!(p.s: shall we find the cycle for missions and bounties 2 :D?) ,--Li Ngalfar

I am hoping they throw in a dragon arena one during the upcoming dragon festival :) -- Lemming 10:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I daresay the others will cycle too, but they will probably have a much bigger, longer run before they repeat, meaning it will take a long time before we'll be able to tell. 86.24.115.34 16:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly i dont think festival arena's etc will hold a zaishen quest, for the simple reason its already extra, it would be double, AND Victory Tokens AND zaishen coins, a bit too much of the good stuff imo,--Li Ngalfar
 * They could introduce special festival items that require Zoins, it's quite possiable something they've thought about. It's quite likely one of the "bounty" Zisions will be to kill one of the enemies in one of the festival quests. ~PheNaxKian [[Image:User_PheNaxKian_sig.jpg]] Talk  19:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Parties are to make too much! Let's get wasted! Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 12:32, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

"You cannot take a quest [...]"

 * "You cannot take a quest if you already have that quest. You must complete the quest and accept the reward before you can take the same quest again."

It's kinda wrong... I have at the moment two different HA quests in my log. It seems the cycled HA quest is not the same or there is a bug, since I have two of them in my log. http://lh4.ggpht.com/_GXDmHFdid4Q/SiDp_t2dPLI/AAAAAAAAAG4/YJsfgwCdA3I/s400/quest-log-ha-double.png Krothal 08:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See this section above.. poke | talk 13:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Since they made ZCombat repeatable, you cant stack same quests anymore. But quests you took previously are still in your quest log, and you need to finish or delete them first. 83.194.236.169 16:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've read it again, and I still don't get it. Do you mean that (1) once you take a quest, it'll never be offered again, (2) once you take and complete a quest, it will never be offered again, or (3) once you take a quest, you must abandon it or complete it and get the rewards before it's offered again. I'm assuming #3, but the wording is ambiguous. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Once you take a quest, if it's still in your log when it comes around on a second cycle, completing the quest will count as having completed it that day. So if you still have Urgoz in your log, when he comes up in the bounty list again, and you kill him on that day, it will be as if you had taken the quest that day and completed it already. To ensure you don't get screwed out of a quest, just be sure to finish them as soon as possible.--Pyron Sy 23:31, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Assuming Anet doesn't change the cycle
The upcoming zcombat quests are AB, then TA, then JQ. The zquests theoretically loops every 32 days.Pika Fan 09:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome. Backsword 12:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * look up a couple of topics? ~PheNaxKian [[Image:User_PheNaxKian_sig.jpg]] Talk  17:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Too lazy. @Backsword Thanks, please guide me along as I am new here. Pika Fan 17:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * For extra credit, assuming every mission is given once before the cycle repeats, how long is the z-mission cycle? :P --8765 23:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There are 69 missions in the game across all campaigns and expansions. (unless they throw in the BMP ones at some point) -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 11:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Patterns
Missions: Bounties: Mission Difficulty: Bounty Difficulty: I think this is interesting to see how difficult Arena Net considers each task to be. Erasculio 13:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Completition: x copper coins
 * Bonus: 1,5x coins
 * Hard Mode: 2,5x coins
 * Completition: y copper coins
 * Hard Mode: 2,5 coins
 * Easy missions: x = 10 15
 * Prophecies: everything until Gates of Kryta
 * Factions: the first two missions
 * Nightfall: the first three missions
 * Medium missions: x = 14 20 ( 20 30 for GW:EN missions)
 * Hard missions: x = 18 30 (30 for GW:EN missions)
 * Prophecies: Iron Mines and following missions
 * Factions: Arborstone and following missions
 * Nightfall: Dzagonur Bastion, Dasha Vestibule and following missions
 * Easy bounties: y = 10 20
 * Medium bounties: y = 20
 * Hard bounties: y = 30 40
 * The Darkness in the Ruins of Tombs
 * The Stygian Lords in DoA
 * End dungeon bosses in GW:EN
 * Charged Blackness in the Underworld
 * Vengeful Aatxe in the Underworld
 * Very hard bounties: y = 50
 * Kanaxai in the Deep
 * The Black Beast of Arrgh in DoA
 * The Greater Darkness in DoA
 * The Four Horsemen in the Underworld


 * Additional patterns:
 * XP, Gold align with Zoins, as do Nightfall title and Faction points
 * 10 15 zoin base => 1 kXP, 250gp, 100 Sunspear, no faction;
 * 14 20 zoin base => 3 kXP, 500gp, 300 Sunspear, no faction;
 * 18 30 zoin base => 5 kXP, 1 kgp, 500 Lightbringer, 2500 faction (if avail at all)
 * EotN Title points are fixed: Asura/Norn/Vanguard: 1500; Deldrimor: 2500
 * 25 missions have yet to be offered as Z-Quests:
 * Prophecies: 16/31 offered
 * Factions: 11/13 offered (counting Luxon/Kurzick version of same quest only 1x)
 * Nightfall: 15/20 offered (counting each path separately)
 * EotN: 8/11 offered (counting only missions)
 * Core, Factions Challenge/Competitive: none offered as Z-mish
 * the mid-June update upgraded the base values for z-mish: 14 zoin mish are now 20 (as of 20 June, none of the 10 or 18zoin mish have become available). The base/bonus/HM ratios have remained the same.


 * The mission rewards follow a chronological pattern (early/mid/late game => 10/14/18 base zoins and early/late => 20/30 in EotN) . Perhaps the bounties are similarly organized (geographically, distance to outposts, ...) rather than based on difficulty. Tennessee Ernie Ford 05:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * From the June 18th update: "Increased the Zaishen Coin rewards for all Zaishen Mission quests and Zaishen Bounty quests." Zaishen Quest is Dunes of Despair with a base reward of 20 zcoins, and Zaishen Bounty is Mohby Windbeak also with a base of 20. Meagen 10:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I updated the zoin base for 14zoin mish; anyone should feel free to update the other base values in my text if they can confirm through their [L] log. Tennessee Ernie Ford 16:52, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The update has changed the value of Zaishen Coins for previous quests as well. My quest log shows Zordack as giving 40/100 coins, Fort Ranik as 15/22/37, Thunderhead Peak as 30/45/75. Erasculio 17:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Updated the base numbers for everything except easy missions, (added easy missions based on Erasculio edit-conflicting me) hard EotN missions, medium bounties, and very hard bounties. You can take a look at the various zquests I updated rewards for on my contribs (it's like the dozen most recent atm) to check if all the patterns still hold. - Tanetris

Title/Rank rewards
I'll bring this up here, so it gets more views. Is it more useful for the articles to contain links under the reward section to the Lore articles (eg. Luxon, Deldrimor) or the rank/title itself (eg. Luxon faction, Deldrimor rank)? Personally, I find the rank/title page to be more relevant, since the user's likely looking for information on what the points go toward. Freedom Bound 13:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes of course the rank is the correct related article; you get points for that title after all. However be sure to still quote the reward section of the quest log when linking it. poke | talk 15:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Reset after latest update
The quests changed midday with the new build. They were Jennur's Horde/Urgoz/HA but are now Destruction's Depths/Droajam/TA. Not sure exactly how you want to handle it beyond changing the table. --Valshia 00:00, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I would say put both in the table a put a little subcript 1 there and denote at the bottom that the quests changed midday... -Archmage-


 * I'm actually curious whether we'll see the same pattern for the missions that we had at the beginning of the Z-Quests, i.e.:
 * EotN (Yes), Nightfall (Yes), Prophecies (Yes), Factions (No), E, P, N, P, F, E, ... [[Image:User Xelonir sig.png| ]]Xelonir 08:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would be very surprised if this was the case. I'm also surprised that we are already seeing repeated missions, it's not like we've even seen all the missions from a single campaign yet.  I wonder whether this was intended, or whether the change to the ZQuests a couple of days ago had some impact on the pool of quests? Garrett 11:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * IMO they acidentally made a reset of the mission cycle. My theory is that a full cycle contains each mission exactly once, however only the campaign is fixed for each day of a cycle and the specific mission is selected randomly from the remaining missions of that campaign. [[Image:User Xelonir sig.png| ]]Xelonir 12:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, clearly. There wasan original cycle, which was interrupted befoe completing, and this new one. Backsword 12:25, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Missing zmission: Curse of the Nornbear
I have the quest "Curse of the Nornbear" under Z Missions in my quest log (and I can post a screen) but it is not listed here. Does anyone know why? --War_Pig5 05:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Zaishen_Challenge_Quest/archive? 66.190.15.232 05:25, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * IP has it, the list was getting way too long, so it's been archived (a couple of times, I think). That particular quest was offered on May 2nd. Freedom Bound 13:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The quest log shows what quests your character has accepted, not what quests are currently available. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 15:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Limit
Why is there a limit of 3 quests of each of the 3 categories at anytime? I mean, as freakin long as it takes (for those of us that do not like to PvP) to acquire Zcoins to trade for items that cannot be purchased any other way, we should not have a limit of 3. There are some that I've had to skip due to having three already and I wanted to play them too. I need the coins to trade for certain items that I cannot acquire any other way. Zcoins are terribly hard for me to acquire and this limit is just ridiculous to me. I would at least get a chance to retry the ones that are really tough when I caught up. As hard as Zcoins are to get, why not an advantage rather than a disadvantage? 70.189.106.136 23:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You can always abandon one of the older quests if you have three already (I do this frequently). Besides, the limit is great for encouraging more play during the week.  If you could hold as many of them as you wanted then you could just store them all up for one intensive period of play rather than pacing yourself and playing more regularly. Garrett 23:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Coins
75+45+30=150, not 140 like the page says (arborstone mission, maybe others I didn't check). So anyway someone could change that I dont know how and wouldn't want to mess it up :P --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:195.252.70.43 (talk).

lol
Does someone need to. (Funny thing, I'll probably tag it for deletion later)--  anguard  16:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was some seconds too late with my revert, so Wikichu started to tweet those ?-quests <_< poke | talk 16:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, gj anyway though. It looked ridiculous.-- [[Image:User_Vanguard_VanguardLogo.png|19px]] anguard  16:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Flyers
The posts on GToB should say quest of the day even if you can't take the quest (because you have 3 already). It would be easy to code a display of a subtitle (like player titles). --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.64.205.63 (talk).
 * Sounds like a good idea. I hate having to abandon one of my quests just to find out what today's quest is, and sometimes, it's not even one that you want to do. &mdash; Pony  [[Image:User_Pony_Slaystation_X.jpg‎|User talk:Pony Slaystation X]] 16:13, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Mission's Campaign
The missions constantly list themselves as being core and then state you need a specific campaign to access them. That is NOT core; core is any part of the game accessible no matter which campaign you have purchased. Certain PvP and bounty quests are core but none of the missions are. As such they should be listed as the appropriate campaign so we don't need the additional notice at the bottom explaining why this core content isn't available.
 * I just tested the Dasha Vestibule. It shows up as Core for the zaishen version, but as "Nightfall" for the regular version (linked from the zaishen version). Either every zmission page has to be updated, or whatever code is used to make them has to be updated. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 20:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The Zaishen Missions are core because you can get them no matter which campaign you originate from. Fulfilling the objectives is another matter. - Reanimated X 20:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can also get them even if you are missing the relevant campaign (and cannot possibly complete the challenge). So, the wiki is consistently representing ANet's odd classification and quest acceptance conventions. Tennessee Ernie Ford 20:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a note at the bottom of the Zaishen Challenge Quest page would be in order? -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

GvG quest objectives not completed after guesting
That's what happened to me. Guess it's a feature. Can anyone confirm? BlazeRick 08:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

3rd Cycle has begun, with missing missions/bounties?
Based on the last few Zaishen missions (Destruction's Depths and Venta Cemetary) and bounties (Droajam, Royen, Eldritch Ettin and Vengeful Aatxe), it seems pretty clear that the 2nd Cycle has finished and the 3rd one has begun. The page and quest archive should be updated to reflect this, I feel.

However, after keeping a careful tally of all the missions/bounties that have been offered, I've noticed that one mission is missing from the cycle: Pogahn Passage. Likewise, although it's impossible to predict what bosses may show up as a Zaishen Bounty, all bosses for the EN Dungeons have so far been offered, except for Freezie from the Secret Lair of the Snowmen.

It MAY be that Freezie was deliberately omitted from the list (killing a favoured servant of Dwayna that's dedicated to protecting children? Wouldn't really fit for roleplaying reasons), but I'm certain the lack of Pogahn Passage is a bug that should be brought to ANet's attention. - Zaxares 00:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Have we even started the second cycle? There were two resets (one accidental and admitted, another after the zoin-value change). I count 66 unique bounties to date. Today is the 63rd entry since the zoin-value change; it's the 70th since the accidental reset. By my count, we've just started a new cycle (or are about to).


 * I agree: Pogahn seems to have been lost. (Maybe it's like Skale Fins for Nick Sanford, who only collects those 3x instead of 4x.)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 01:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I count the second cycle as having started after the accidental reset, for both Missions and Bounties. It covered exactly 68 out of 69 total missions, although it is unusual that the Bounty cycle seems to have restarted earlier than the Mission cycle. Nevertheless, the reason why I believe the cycles have restarted is because so far, they are following the exact same order as the quests that appeared at the start of the second cycle. I predict that tomorrow's Zaishen quests will be Fort Ranik and Fronis Irontoe.


 * Any idea where we can notify ANet of Pogahn's missing status though? - Zaxares 04:36, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Check with Joe to make sure it's actually missing -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 08:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Still not sure how we want to archive to make the cycles clear, and not sure how to make the main page handle predictions, but at least until another update changes the cycle, predictions to the end of the year can be found here. - Tanetris 21:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

ruined
I just realized I never advance my goals in GW anymore unless the associated ZQ is that day, for fear it'll turn up the next day and screw me out of a reward... gah! - <font color="Red">72[evolved] {U/S/C} - 01:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can re-do them... not like they are that difficult. &mdash; Rappy 01:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Eh, I have a friend who feels the same as 72. It's delayed in-game progress by months. For me, I decided I'd rather have access to HM and all the mish/bounties/nick-appearances. Consequently, I finished the game much more quickly than expected (based on my progress before the 4th Anniversary). My friend is happy being efficient; I'm happy having unlocked the next set of challenges (and the commensurate rewards).


 * By the way, the missions and bounties seem to be repeating, so consider planning around the pattern.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Y'know, instead of linking GuildWiki, you could look at the section above. - Tanetris 04:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The section above does not include a predictive list; the guildwiki link does. Feel free to update the link above as soon as this wiki adds its own predictions without leaving them as an exercise for the reader. :-)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 05:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, except it does. Last comment of the section. By a familiar name. ;) - Tanetris 07:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh, you are right. I missed a couple of updates to this page and didn't realize you had posted something new; also didn't see that someone created a prediction page (I had been looking for it). My apologies. I've updated the link in my text.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Premature updating of page
Doesn't it make more sense to update this page AFTER the challenge quests change? Today's missions do not go live for another 5 hours, and the page already displays them. If people visit this page, they are likely to want to know what quests are available NOW. If they want predictions, they can have them. But can we not keep this page accurate to what is available right now? Karalin Taucher 10:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I was wondering the same thing when I saw the quests for today had been added yesterday as shown in [ this edit] - 16:02, 5 November 2009 (UTC). -- Kakarot [[Image:User Kakarot Sig.gif|Talk]] 15:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree, it's confusing as hell at the moment and I have to keep checking the date... Can we leave this page for the current quest with the prediction link as previously stated? BorisDePig 20:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It threw me at first, but I think what's coming up tomorrow is of enough value that it should be somewhere on the main page. Maybe separated somehow so it's easier to tell at a glance? <font color="#008800">Manifold 20:51, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. After all, ArenaNet, home of Guild Wars, is located Bellevue, Washington. It seems to me that if there is any Time Zone to be associated with updates and such it should AT LEAST include Pacific Time. I've visited this page many many times and never noticed the dates screwed up till now. I hate to sound like this, but you cannot technically update a page like this without proof of what is. Whoever is updating this page is only assuming. I agree the info is valuable but it goes no farther than that. It's like turning 15 years old and everyone is singing Happy 16th Birthday to you... hell, why stop at updating only one day ahead of schedule? Why not just load up the week? I don't see the point...70.189.106.136 01:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

See the discussion at Talk:Zaishen Challenge Quest/predictions. You can look at the Main Page or Main Page/activities if you are confused about which quests are currently available. Could the table be changed so it highlights the current quests and displays the predictions in gray like the Nicholas Sandford/Research page? --Silver Edge 03:19, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point about highlighting the current quest. However, its not about confusion. It's about making a quick glance at the top of the page and expecting the current quest to be there. The reason for the premature update seems to be so that people will get an early plan on when/if they will take part in the next days quests. But the point is that this page is not a page for predictions. As you stated, there is already a prediction page dedicated to future quests, so why even have anything resembling a prediction on this page at all let alone on top of the current quests? It is not so much confusing as it is a pointless change. That type of information is opinionated and, while valuable, does not belong with factual information. Here's a suggestion; make it like Nicholas the Hunter's page. Just place the link to the prediction page at the bottom under "Notes". It makes more sense this way and keeping consistency is important as well. 70.189.106.136 06:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry about this, actually I [ added] one prediction on the page just for testing purpose. It seems that the ones copying from the prediction page understood it as that always one prediction should be listed.
 * I'm still working on it, but you can expect some changes soon both on this page and on the Main Page. poke | talk 14:45, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd like to note that "prediction" is a bit of a soft word here. As far as I know, the pattern has been figured out and hasn't been wrong once. It will be a bit before the new combat quest schedule is certain, however. <font color="#008800">Manifold 19:17, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but I wish he wouldn't update it a day beforehand anyway. It's annoying.-- User Vanguard VanguardLogo.png anguard  20:53, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It has and can be wrong. Although it may be accurate, it can also be wrong. When Anet sends an update it usually resets and then lots of people cannot acquire the quest. Besides, its not really about that. It's about apples and oranges... 70.189.106.136 23:19, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Errrr... plz stop bogus update for bogus display on main page... Elephant 16:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with most that it is not a good idea to put future quests in this list. There are other places for those.  People come here to find the z-quests of the day, not tomorrows, nor the next's.97.118.162.7 21:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems a lot of people do not like having the next day's quests in place of the current day's quest. Can we please stop updating the quest page so early? Please? Can we just do it they way that makes the most sense and the way we are all accustomed to seeing it? I have not seen anyone comment that having the next day's quest on top is better. 70.189.106.136 01:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I prefer to see several days predicted on the main article page, so I don't have to dig through links or remember what to type. I can think of 20 ways to do this without premature updating of this page, though.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:10, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Now that we know the entire cycle (or soon for PvP, thanks to CA), can we not just list the enitre cycle, with a highlight for the current day? Backsword 12:44, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Could we use a template to update the table automatically based on the date and time? -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:53, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's my plan, expect something in that direction when the full cycle is known. poke | talk 22:57, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * BUMP! Doesn't GWW already have such cycle available? Missions = 68 days, Bounty = 66 days and Combat = unknown (was 32 days or so). --NIN37 17:00, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Which was copied from here. The original predictions were made by Tanetris. - Reanimated X 17:05, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Zcombat was the particular cycle Poke was waiting on. For the record, the zcombat cycle is 28 days now, and we learned the last quest of the cycle on Nov 18 (5 days after Poke's post here). Last I heard, Poke's working on some fancy coding that we'll be able to set once, and never have to touch again as long as the cycle doesn't get reset. In the meantime you can always look at the prediction page. - Tanetris 17:38, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't saying they "created" it, I was merely mentioned they "implemented" it. :P
 * In other words, every so often, there's "unknown" text filling ZBounty, ZCombat & ZMission on main page, can't we have a script/bot to update it daily? --NIN37 13:09, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless of the plan I have, you all could have all those predictions displaying already on this page and on the main page (as soon as it switches) if there wasn't exactly this topic which clearly said that people don't want "[p]remature updat[es] of [this] page". poke | talk 21:08, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The complaints were that it caused confusion when the table included the next day's Z quests, because people expected to view the first row on the table and see what the current Z quests were instead of checking the dates. That could have been avoided by highlighting the current row of Z quests similar to Nicholas Sandford/Research. --Silver Edge 11:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That was the plan, but people didn't like it in the beginning, so I just stopped working on it.. poke | talk 17:49, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it would be best to continue your plan, since it would be better if this table would update automatically at 16:00 UTC so that Main Page / Main Page/activities would display the current quests. The people in this section who disliked the "premature updating" haven't been the ones updating the table everyday when the new quests are offered. They can't expect someone to manually update this page at exactly 16:00 UTC everyday, when it can be done automatically. --Silver Edge 02:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)