Talk:Dhuum/Archive 1

Pictures
What does Dhuum is like? this? Maybe this? MithTalk 15:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * First one looks more like a Seer. Hmm.... --[[Image:User mrsmiles tinysmile.png| ]] MrSmiles 05:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I do believe the second one is the statue of "The Darkness", is it not? It is involved in the quest Good Demon Hunting. --82.42.138.114 20:16, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He looks like Fabio, but with dark hair. 24.237.82.247 06:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The first is a concept art of a member of an army which can also be seen here. I doubt Dhuum is a flag bearer. I'd guess the first was a planned new servant of Menzies (the flags are pure red, such as the flags near the Priest of Menzies - and that statue...). The statue is all over the Domain of Fear, who knows what it is of. I doubt it is of Dhuum. Most likely, it is a remnant of the insectoid gods such as Arachnia. I don't think we have any hint of Dhuum's form. -- Konig/ talk 14:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Damn I want an image. -- smøni  19:11, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * How come the good gods in GW are the only ones with proper depictions, and evil gods the only ones who actually do something? Paddymew 19:54, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They did something, they blessed Kormir and gave her advice to become a god. Taros 20:17, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, that pales in comparison to trying to turn the world into your playground and its inhabitants into either corpses or slaves (or both). Paddymew 21:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that we do have a picture, only one thing to say : Dhuum is by far the coolest looking god in GW. 213.166.221.2 13:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * nah hes not just the coolest looking god, hes the coolest looking thing in the whole of GW.211.26.202.21 12:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Name
Should it be noted that Dhuum could be the phonetic spelling of doom? :3 « troy .frostwind ­»  17:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Doom itself is a curious word - in Old English it meant "to do," Middle English law, but currently means unhappy fate. Dictionaries suggest the word came from middle German, but there is an interesting title given in the Gaelic Cattle Raid of Cooley - Dearg Doom (supposedly "Red Destroyer" though the second word doesn't translate in any dictionary I've tried - the text dates to the 11th/12th century - about the same time the word appeared in English and German) for the character Cu Chulainn.  Anyhow, in the story Queen Maeve of Connacht raises an army and gets favorable signs by the Druids but a sorceress foretells of the destruction of Maeve's army by Dearg Doom, Cu Chulainn.  She marched the army anyway and the army does lose to Cu Chulainn, but they captured the bull they were after (and to understand that, you'd need to read the story).   --Falseprophet 17:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In Romeo and Juliet, it seems to mean "judgement". -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:13, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Evil 6 Gods?
It starting to seem, that there maybe an evil set of gods opposed to the Current 6 Gods... Menzies, Dhuum and Abbadon, each have or are realated to the currents gods of Tyria... so I wonder if there is an opposite Dwyana, Merlandru and Lyssa? - SabreWolf 19:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Concerning the opposite of Melandru, i wonder, if the Nightmare Court has gods--86.192.90.41 19:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The idea of opposites is flawed at Abaddon. He didn't have an opposite, just a predecessor and a successor. Menzies is also not a god, his status in deity-ness is unknown, just being a half-brother of Balthazar. I think he is a spirit, personally. Though the "six evil gods" could hold some value - depending on if the Harvestman's Lair and The Spider's Heart is still canon. If they are, my opinions can be seen here. -- Konig/ talk 20:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Like Konig said, there isn't really an idea of "opposites" concerning the gods. There have apparently been more "evil" gods, but they were not necessarily the opposite of any one god. Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  20:45, 28 October 2009  (UTC)
 * If Arachnia is still canon, that would give Kormir two evil counterparts, breaking the symmetry (and if she isn't canon, Abaddon would still canonically have a predecessor who may or may not have been evil). -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Wrapping up?
I'd like to see the Dhuum/Abadon/Menzies storyline wrapped up before the new big bad guys come about in GW2. Maybe that's strange, but what does anyone else think? Finish the whole thing with the bad guys we have now before moving on, or leave them to obscurity?~ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.161.123.22 (talk).
 * I would love to see Dhuum be released every once in a while, if not several times per week. My love-meter for anet could reach abnormal levels. Yseron - 81.251.23.143 20:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, IP, it seems your wish is granted with Dhuum. It appears that Anet is finishing up Dhuum (or at least expanding on his story). -- Konig/ talk 21:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What storyline are you referring to please? If there is a hitory or backstory on Dhuum, Abaddon, or Menzies, please show me where I can read up...  --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19x19px]] Talk  02:36, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole first three campaigns. Underworld's invasion, Fissure of Woe's invasion, Tombs of the Primeval King's invasion, the first Dragon Festival, Abaddon's release. All these acts were done as a conjunction of Dhuum, Menzies, and Abaddon's doings and their minions. -- Konig/ talk 03:26, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Reaper of the Labrynth

 * ''"Dhuum? Yes, that is one of his many names. He is also known as Nerf Inevitable. The ender of UWSC, The Nerf at the Edge of Darkness... Some call him the Omega Nerf... The Nerf in the Void... The Final Nerf..." Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Your joke lacks humor. I didn't even chuckle. I think you should stick to Nicholas. -- Konig/ talk 04:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ King Neoterikos 20:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Woops! The internet isn't here just to please you. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Woops! The internet isn't here just to please you. -- Konig/ talk 20:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice joke actually. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Reflect (talk).
 * No man. Konig, the almighty and self-important Guild Wars historian expresses disdain for the joke, therefore it cannot be "nice" or "good" or any related adjective.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:30, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do people call me almighty and self-important and the like? It's because people say that I'm better than I am, that makes others think I think of myself than that. Which is far from truth. I dislike the joke, but others will find it funny. My second comment was just showing how your comment can be tossed right back at you. Some of your Nicholas jokes are funny - though it got old fast. A note to everyone: Please stop saying that I view myself highly! I very well do not. -- Konig/ talk 22:20, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * +1 to the omega nerf! (that was quite funny)Headchopperz 23:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I think the nerf is good, it brings players into the UW not just for farming ecto and items but how well they work with a team of diffrent classes.

Omega nerf was reasonably lulzy (though maybe because it can also be turned into omega weapon). That said, welcome to the internet, Alice. -- Armond Warblade 01:54, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Dhuum = Arachnia?
Or at least, perhaps, they're related in some way? Dhuum has an army of Terror and Tortureweb Dryders. Dryders are spiders. Dhuum is a god. Arachnia is a spider. Arachnia was a god. Blah? 24.12.37.0 19:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Arachnia is, if canon, dead. Dhuum is very much alive. I personally think they are of the same previous pantheon - assuming The Spider's Heart and Harvestman's Lair are canon. The origin of the Dryders confuse me, to be honest. They serve Dhuum at points, yet they are also native to the Spawning Pools. -- Konig/ talk 20:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Define "native". The skeletons in the Underworld are definately controlled by Dhuum, and they are in the Underworld too. Paddymew 19:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The Dryders appear to be created in the Spawning Pools (according to the Reaper there, the Spawning Pools is the origin of all of the most horrific and evil creatures) - also, when the Underworld is "under control" - thus implying only native creatures remain - Dryders are still in the Spawning Pools. Being in the Underworld doesn't mean they are native there, and I never did say that. Excluding the Skeletons of Dhuum, Dhuum's servants seem to be nothing in a whole (unlike Abaddon and Menzies with the Margonites/Shadow Army respectively), but instead portions of factions - some Dryders, some Banished Dream Riders, some Grasping Darknesses, some Torment Demons, some Grasps of Insanity(?), and some Aatxes. Never all of a group. -- Konig/ talk 21:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Dhuum was the god of death, and, presumably, owner of the Underworld, before Grenth. Abaddon has something else than just Margonites - the torment creatures - and he controls all of both factions, yes. But which dryders, banished dream riders, grasping darknesses and so on, can you positively outline as not being under Dhuum's control? Paddymew 22:34, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Firstly, on the torment creatures - all of the Emissaries of Dhuum, which obviously work for Dhuum, are torment creatures. So Abaddon doesn't control all of those. As for them not being under Dhuum's control... Reaper of the Chaos Planes says that spirits without valor or redemption head there - and the only spirits there are Wailing Lords and Banished Dream Riders - Dryders exist in Tyria as well, where Dhuum shows no control, and based on the dialogue of Terrorweb Queen, those who follow Dhuum (or at least those which attack the Underworld) are of just one brood - Grasping Darknesses cannot be positively shown to not be, except that they are there during the first two Halloween Quests - which take place after the Underworld has been under control (same goes for the Dryders, which are in large numbers). Tell me, if Dryders were all followers of Dhuum, would they let the Reaper of the Spawning Pools reign free when they outnumber him about 40 to 1? Yet, they don't attack him in said quests. Grasping Darknesses are in smaller numbers, so it is possible that they do all follow Dhuum - however, if they followed Dhuum, why would they let an emissary of Thorn (their rival) pass? -- Konig/ talk 00:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe the Mad King is so powerful that he can grant his agents the ability to force their enemies to obey. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:09, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ZOMG MAD KING THORN IS THE LICH ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:11, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * But the Lich never shared the Scepter of Orr. So it can't be him. --Kyoshi 03:41, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I could be wrong, but I recall all Torment Creatures are originally Dhuum's and all Terrorwebs are originally Dhuum's or are currently aligned with him. The skeletons of dhuum are his as well.  Everything else belongs to others.  Anything except terrorwebs that you find in ToPK, for example, is Menzies', the Margonites and Titans belong to Abaddon, and the Shadow Army is obviously Menzies'.  From what I gather, the other monsters lurking around the UW are "natives," akin to the abnormally hostile wildlife floating around Tyria.  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 03:56, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * IIRC the only torment creatures known to be affiliated with Dhuum are the emissaries. Terrorweb Dryders are stated to be followers of Dhuum in the Forgotten Wardens' Dhuum Battle dialogue. Aurus Trevess states that "The followers of Dhuum have gathered here under the command of The Fury" when describing the Foundry of Failed Creations, but doesn't say any specific creatures within the Foundry are or aren't followers of Dhuum. The four Riders of Dhuum are stated to be followers of Dhuum in the quest dialogue for The Four Horsemen. The Gate of Pain mission dialogue establishes that Tortureweb Dryders serve Dhuum. Regular Banished Dream Riders are implied to be followers of Dhuum due to their similarity to the Fury and the Riders of Dhuum. As for the Tomb of Primeval Kings, I don't think any of the monsters in there have been explicitly linked to Abaddon, Dhuum or Menzies, IIRC we just know that all three were involved in the invasion, the Darknesses are presumed to be followers of Menzies because the Darknesses in the Ravenheart Gloom are followers of Menzies, the Terrorweb Dryders are presumed to be followers of Dhuum because the Terorweb and Tortureweb Dryders in the Realm of Torment have been established to be followers of Dhuum and the Banished Dream Riders are presumed to be followers of Dhuum because the Riders of Dhuum have been established to be followers of Dhuum. As for the question of which creatures are native to the Underworld, Dhuum ruled the Underworld before Grenth, so it's possible that the dryders, skeletons and dream riders are also Underworld natives. It's also possible that Arachnia originally created the Dryders, and that they started following Dhuum after Arachnia was overthrown (assuming Arachnia's canon). -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)


 * If I'm correct, the 4 lords in DoA are servants of mallyx as said in the quest dialog of mallyx the unyielding "Mallyx the Unyielding has four great servants...the General, the Fury, the Greater Darkness, and the Dreadspawn Maw". If you look on the page of Mallyx himself it states that he is a margonite "Mallyx the Unyielding is a powerful Margonite overlord who rules over the Domain of Anguish". And as we all know the margonites are servants of abaddon. That would make the Fury a servant of Abaddon and not a servant of Dhuum, which kills your theory of the banished dream riders as they have similarities with servants of both Dhuum and Abaddon. As you said yourself: "The followers of Dhuum have gathered here under the command of The Fury" which doesnt necessarily mean that the Fury is a follower of Dhuum, it's more like Dhuum "lending" his servants to the Fury and therefor to Abaddon aswell (the forgotten wardens insinuate an sort of alliance between Abaddon and Dhuum in their "Dhuum battle" bounty.Class 22:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Or it could just mean that they are currently under Mallyx's command and want him to overthrow Kormir. I'm not claiming that there is conclusive proof that the Fury, the Dream Riders or the mesmer Guardians of Komalie are followers of Dhuum, I'm merely claiming that there is evidence which implies that this could be the case. The Fury could be working for Mallyx because it serves Dhuum's goals, or could've originally served Dhuum but switched allegiances, or, as you theorize, he could've originally served Abaddon and started working for Mallyx, Abaddon's most powerful follower after Kormir overthrew him. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds reasonable that The Fury has joined forces with the last remaining demonic forces of Abaddon. I mean, honestly, the servants of two evil gods that don't form an alliance would be strange. Dhuum is (was?) trapped, and Abaddon had just been destroyed (Or scattered. (Or absorbed.)). Why wouldn't the only powerful evil demons left band together? Paddymew 07:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Rivalries. Mutual hatreds. Etc. (not that I am saying that either side had those) --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png R I D DLE 08:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly, the two sides would have neither when facing a common foe. Paddymew 12:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I love this lore-digging :) -- Arduin [[Image:User_Arduin_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 12:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I bet annet are reading this atm to write more lore, or even better, to finish programming the quest, "I still dont know what powers we shall give Dhumm", "I know lets just check wiki discussion pages" lol. Headchopperz 23:55, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * * whistles* I go away for a weekend for a funeral and I come back to some nice conversation. Let's see here... First of all, I don't think we should consider all of a group just because some are known to follow Dhuum.
 * On the invasion of the TotPK, it would appear that the forces were of Dhuum that were led by Menzies' stronger "generals" - even beyond the Darknesses being in Ravenheart Gloom, they go along with the idea of shadows and darkness. However, the Grasps Scythes/Wrathful Storms, Riders, Chaos Wurms, and Dryders do not show any link to Menzies - but some (specifically Riders and Dryders) do show a link elsewhere to Dhuum, so it is possible that not just those two, but the others as well, serve Dhuum (or Dhuum's generals, as it may be that Dhuum was out of contact completely).
 * On Mallyx and his 4 generals - I'd agree with Ecker that they were just following the biggest badie at the time. Jadoth lost his god, so he went to the strongest servant of said god - the Greater Darkness and the Shadow Army was probably in the area already due to the idea of darkness in the area (it seems that they have been there for a while, and Menzies himself could be in an unexplorable portion of the "endless" plain) - Dreadspawn Maw might not have been a servant or general and more of a stationary demon spawner that was used by Menzies, Abaddon, and Dhuum's forces (and later by Mallyx) - and for the Fury, how I see it, would be the thought process of "if I help a god (Abaddon) break free, then the god could help my god (Dhuum) rise again" which turned to "if I can help someone become a god (Mallyx), then he could help me and my god (Dhuum)" or even "before Mallyx takes Kormir's power, I'll take it for myself" - which could even be the thought process of Mallyx's other allies. In other words, while the term servant was used, they were more of an alliance that had Mallyx as their leader - thus, they served (therefore are servants) Mallyx, but they didn't fully align themselves to him (thus, not forgetting their previous leaders).
 * On the Dream Riders specifically, I don't think that all of them in the Chaos Plains/Planes are followers of Dhuum. It could be just those which spawned the Mindflay Spectres (that doesn't really seem like a common thing of spirits, to be honest...). Or it could just be that they do serve Dhuum, but not so much as they must be followers, but more that they want to because of their lack of valor - i.e., "new" spirits which head to the area do not serve Dhuum, so not all of them do, but after a while, the chances of them serving Dhuum rise. Appearance of the Four Horsemen and the Fury has nothing to do with the other riders, to be honest. Maybe it was that those five are very strong "spirits with no valor or redemption" and are some of the most original of the spirits to follow Dhuum - doesn't mean all dream riders are followers of Dhuum.
 * Finally, on the Dryders. It is undenyable that some follow Dhuum. But all? I find that skeptical. For the Margonites, it's rare for them not to follow Abaddon/Mallyx (only 2 didn't, to our knowledge), just as it would be weird for Shiro'ken and Afflicted not to follow Shiro, or Shadow Army to not follow Menzies. However, due to there being Dryders in the Ring of Fire and the Northern/Far Shiverpeaks, that means that like the Wind Rider race, they are in multiple realms of existence (Rift/Realms of the Gods+Tyria). By that and the dialogue of the Reaper of the Spawning Pools in both normal and quest dialogue - I think that there are multiple broods of Terrorweb Dryders (and any other kind of Dryder), and only some broods follow Dhuum. -- Konig/ talk 03:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The way I see it, there isn't a foe in FoW or UW that properly follows any of the 5 "true" Gods, or else we wouldn't receive that respective God's praise for clearing his realm of his own servants. In the Fissure of Woe, this is fairly obvious since the factions are clearly stated - foes there are the Shadow Army, including Shadow Beasts, Abyssals and Skeletals (as pointed out by Rastigan before and during the Quest, Tower of Courage).  In the Underworld, it would seen to be a little more ambiguous, since the creatures there have presented no evidence of intelligence and therein their 'factional loyalties' are harder to place. Yet, if Necromancers, water Elementalists and wind prayers Dervishes are all worshipers of Grenth, then the foes we fight should belong to any number of others (we players are fractionally aligned to the Five God, as presented most blatantly by the Nightfall campaign).  Since Dhuum was the previous God of Death whose position Grenth usurped, it would seem most likely - especially given the name of several foes throughout - that all hostile creatures remaining in the UW are aligned to the previous Death God and therein, fight us or at least did not come about in Grenth's time, therein owing no allegiance to him. Or, one could pose the "senseless animal" argument on creatures such as Dryders, Aataxes, Behemoths and Darknesses, but I would still maintain that they existed before Grenth's time as Death God and are therein not aligned to him.
 * But you know what all of this gives me a hankering for? The Realms of Melandru, Dwayna and Lyssa! Tell me the Realm of Chaos and Beauty wouldn't be awesome. 141.165.171.240 23:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The Realm of Chaos and Beauty wouldn't be awesome. :P Now what? Class 22:26, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Substantiate please. :P 66.56.48.254 03:04, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Other names
More like titles imo. Zeus was known by about a billion titles, but only had one name. Are they officially called names anywhere, or are we just gathering information on what people call him? -- Armond Warblade 19:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Reaper of the Labyrinth in the first of the Halloween quests called Dhuum by such. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png R I D DLE 19:33, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)The crazed Reaper of the Labyrinth says they are his other names during Don't Fear the Reapers. But to make things even, even a name is a title to a person. ;) -- Konig/ talk 19:35, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah; the reaper says that Dhuum is known as or some call [him]. Only the character (who knows about nothing of the whole thing, presumably; we just blow shit up) calls the list a list of names. I'll change it. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 19:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And yes, this is the result of reading Deities and Demigods too many times. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 19:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Reaper of the Labyrinth: "Dhuum? Yes, that is one of his many names..." Wat? 24.197.253.243 20:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As the IP pointed out, the Reaper of the Labyrinth says names - not just the player. As I said (as did Riddle), the Reaper says they are his names. We didn't say it is stated those are other names, we said the Reaper says it. Going to revert your change since they are called other names. -- Konig/ talk 22:06, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Cite.php
This article uses information from quite a few sources. Are there any objections to trying out cite.php in the Dhuum article? See this version of the Druid article for an example of the extension in use. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:00, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It takes 4 clicks to revert if something goes wrong. I would say go ahead.--Fighterdoken 06:12, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I am on the fence for using this on such a small article. If it were larger, than I wouldn't object, but this is so small for the amount of sources, I am unsure if it is really necessary... We only get information on Dhuum from the Underworld, Halloween, and a few Realm of Torment quests/bounties. If we cite sources like such - instead of relying on links - I think we should try to expand the article. -- Konig/ talk 09:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly, that druid article looks hideously overcited, even for Wikipedia. -- Hong 09:51, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ugh, agree. The druid article is atrocious.
 * What source is this page using anyhow? If we don't cite them now, why should we cite them with an extension? NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 10:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It currently uses information from at least eight sources: Reaper of the Chaos Planes, The Four Horsemen, Keeper Zeliss, Forgotten Warden, Gate of Pain, Something Wicked This Way Comes, Don't Fear the Reapers and Stemming the Skeletal Tide. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In other words, it has no sources outside the game. Ehh.. why are we citing ourselves, again? NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 15:55, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we please focus on deciding whether we're even going to keep the extension before we pick out individual articles to use the extension on? The basic guidelines for how and where to make citations (the discussions about which seem to pop up on these individual articles' talk pages) should be discussed at GWWT:FORMAT so the ideas and opinions are kept centralised. It's already been voiced that live articles shouldn't be used as examples. -- pling User Pling sig.png 17:03, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Prety large edit
I have made a pretty large edit, and have put both version in my talk page, so it can be reverted back too the original if needs be. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Reaper94 (talk).
 * The gesture is appreciated, but this is a wiki, so edits can easily be undone, everything is saved in the history. (also, please sign your comments on talk pages.) -- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 00:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Undead
Are we sure he is undead? He is a (fallen) god, so he might be put in the same category as Abaddon, instead of an undead. Has someone hit him with holy damage and got double damage on him? -- Konig/ talk 09:40, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It says he DOES NOT TOLERATE the undead, or resurrection. If he was undead, he wouldnt tolerate himself, which would be king of weird. Hidan Santai 07:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Do note that I asked this before it was even put up on either wiki that he did not tolerate undead. Someone listed him as undead - so I asked, and shortly after asking, someone changed it to "God". -- Konig/ talk 17:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Spoil
The Picture might be a spoiler, too in this very early time of his appearance. Putting just a link to it or hiding it somehow would be awesome! :S --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.187.214.118 (talk).
 * No. - Mini Me   talk  11:42, 20 November 2009

Lore
Love it how ArenaNet folk turns ecto farming / UWSC into lore + new content? Mediggo 11:47, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, definitely *-* (and it will force me to try and do UW quests, which I've never done before XD) 213.166.221.2 13:13, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What I love more is people who are still bitching over it. UWSC will probably echo louder than Ursan into infinity.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Spirit Form
Does someone know the name of the spirit form players are under after talking to the Mayor? Erasculio 13:21, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * IDK countine this talk on --Dhuum has arrived 13:49, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is here. Name = Spirit_Form_(Underworld)  --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19x19px]] Talk  03:02, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

End Chest
so do you have to kill him to get the chest? or is he just kind of a bonus that you have the option to do after you finish? 24.34.231.13 15:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes to the first. de   Kooning  15:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * thanks 24.34.231.13 15:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Has anyone recorded anything about what the end chest drops? KJZ 21:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the Underworld Chest, just updated with some new drops, as noted in the update notes and elsewhere. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 21:38, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Holy Fruitcake...
Hes got all those *beeping* skills and just one could *Beep* us up the *beeping *beep* *Beep* *beep* honkers*Beep* HES GOT A *beeping* *beep* *beep* atached to his *beep* face!,dont even get me started on his *beeping* Scythe its *Beeping* *beeped*

Wyn steps in and bonks me over the head.

we are...Dhuumed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1-- Nei l2250. 17:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's a cool idea of Dhuum, really liked it. But wil it not be harmful for Noobways in nm (It's how I completed uw first time, doesn't really have a name so...)?--Sierra Echo --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.196.126.75 (talk).

Drops?
Can somebody post any findings? People speculate he drops 10 ectos (Which I think is false) -- Large 18:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Simple: None. He is not killed, thus no drops from him. All "his" drops come from the chest. -- Konig/ talk 20:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 00:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Epic
Signet of WTFHOLYSHITAWESOME confirmed.12.6.238.154 22:58, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This guy should be the true god of death lot cooler than grenth . 89.166.101.7 00:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah well, according to the quest, he "does not tolerate resurrections or the undead". So say goodbye to your shrines, rez signets, minions...on the flip side, maybe he would do something about Palawa Joko - Grenth seems to be looking the other way on that one... Arshay Duskbrow 06:43, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * -goes into UW with the soul intention of getting the reapers killed - ALL HAIL DHUUM211.26.202.21 13:16, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Would explain why there's not much lore before the current Gods became Gods, Dhuum made sure everything dead in the mists became nonexistant, which stopped when Grenth became the new God--Bloodvayne 05:44, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't go that far, Bloodvayne, it seems to me he just prevents anything from returning to life - that is all we know, and this could be the "unjust" part of his rule which we were told of. If it is, I think Dhuum is a better guy - no Khilbron, no Joko, on Oberan, no Verata, no Shiro, no Zoldark, no Murakai, no Fendi Nin, possibly no Djinn (if they are indeed spirits) thus no Iron Forgeman. Man, Grenth's allowance of things really screwed the world... -- Konig/ talk 16:00, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * +4 Konig. Good point. 141.165.171.194 22:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No Necromancers...or overpowered necromancers, depending. Minion masters would be done though. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 23:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Split
What exactly are we splitting this page in to? Right now it is exactly like the Abaddon page, with the lore at the top, and the skills and notes at the bottom. I don't see a reason to split the page, unless I'm missing something. Silavor 00:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. If worst comes to worst, I'd go as far as putting the lore under a "Lore" section, below the NPC info and above Notes. But I prefer its current state. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg {U|T|C} 01:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Silavor, the page should be split. There is no walkthrough on the Abaddon page about defeating the boss; that's in the Gate of Abaddon article instead. Here it should be the same thing - the walkthrough and the notes about the fight against Dhuum should be on the article named over the quest to defeat the god, not in this article. The problem is that we still haven't had anyone either confirming the name of the quest or creating an article for it, but the quest does exist. Erasculio  01:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I was going for (and mentioned in the edit summary when I tagged it). <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 01:21, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd go for a split too. Having a "Walkthrough" section is out of place for a lore article. -- ab.er. rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 01:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I made an article for the quest (The Nightman Cometh). Ripped the dialogue, quest name from a youtube video. ;)<font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 01:54, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Moved the walk through to the quest article, removed from here along with the split notice. Feel free to edit the walk through, on the quest page.-- Konig/ talk 02:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please include the link to the quest article on the main page. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19x19px]] Talk  03:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Needs a new pic.
-looks at the current one- 'nuff said. pers onn5  02:34, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Dying and Spirit Form
Somebody please explain how one becomes a spirit while fighting Dhuum. Or rather, clarify, please. This article says that simply by dying, you are automatically teleported to the Forgotten Vale. But other articles I've read said you had to have 60% dp when you died in order to become a spirit. Which is it? Does this mean that your party is immune to party wipe while facing Dhuum? --Musha Talk  03:14, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is when you have 60% dp, I think. And I don't think it is immune to wiping - should everyone die, game over, should all but 1 die, and use Dhuum's Rest continuously, then you can beat Dhuum faster. Or something like that. Have yet to fight Dhuum so not sure. -- Konig/ talk 03:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If you die normally you turn into a spirit in the vale regardless of DP. You can then talk to the mayor and he will send you back to the hall.  If you die as a spirit and everyone else dies under similar circumstances that's it and you return to outpost.  Basically you all get 1 oops and then however long it took to get to him is down the crapper.  76.20.238.253 06:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, if you die as a spirit your party wipes? -63.16.2.122 09:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he means, first time you die when under the effects of Curse of Dhuum, you just teleport, and you have to teleport back. But, once your team dies as a spirit (i.e., everyone is a spirit, and then everyone dies) your team fails. -- Konig/ talk 09:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So what's to stop someone from saying "Hey, Mesmer. Go hide. Stay out of the fight and let us real classes handle it." Then messie doesn't die, and party doesn't get kicked out. Targren 10:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Dhuum kills all the spirit players and Reapers? Reapers and spirit form players are needed to fill the bar - if none are there, no bar filling. And after the bar is filled, he needs to be put to 25%. -- Konig/ talk 10:54, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Targren, Dhuum would kill all the reapers then, resulting in a wipe I believe. Also, it'd be like any other normal place. The Mesmer would be the only one left alive to do anything.<font color="Black"> -- [[Image:User_Lacky_Blue_Paw_Sig.png|15px|My Talk]] <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 11:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's how it works. Dhuum has an attack that hits you and all the reapers which seem to be contained or trapped on pedestals around the room, they are allied.  There really is no way for you to hide because he can just melt into the floor and appear somewhere else.  If you die then you become a spirit and go to the Vale with the option to warp back and a new skillset.  If you die as a spirit you stay dead.  It happened very quickly but I believe if he manages to kill all the reapers regardless of party status, you wipe.  We attempted him in HM and he was dishing out punishment so fast he bled the monks out.  If he happens to spirit you monks removing your main heals you are basically screwed with no way to rez anyone inside.  76.20.238.253 14:11, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Res scroll, I choose you! -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 15:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It works but do you really want to shoot your wad out on those just to win the fight? Besides if it comes to that the best you can hope for is the spirit bar with "target other ally" heals.  Far too much micro involved for your average knucklehead to be effective at.  76.20.238.253 15:56, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Spirits have the Dhuum's Rest spell, which actually helps the party to make the fight shorter. Erasculio  15:58, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I was there Erasculio, rest barely makes his bar budge and the balance of the team was mercilessly beating on him. I see something about 90% damage reduction which could have been the problem if that's what we were up against especially in HM.  His HP was at maybe 95% and his rest bar I figure couldn't have been higher than 10% in spite of everyone who was spirited spamming rest and spiritual healing on recharge until they got taken out.  76.20.238.253 16:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Linsey told us that the rumours about a 90% damage reduction are fake, Dhuum doesn't have that.. -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 16:56, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find that quote but I believe you. He could probably stand to have his hps toned down a little bit then.  Literally, big hits do almost no noticeable changes to his health bar like Rotscale or pre-nerf Duncan on steroids.  76.20.238.253 18:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

It appears that when Dhuum was FIRST introduced he MAY have had 90% damage reduction, but even if that was the case, it has since been removed. He no longer has 90% damage reduction. I have fought Dhuum a couple times now since I asked my question, and I can now answer it all myself. :D The goal of The Nightman Cometh is, first, to get the Dhuum's Rest bar filled. The Reapers cast Dhuum's Rest to fill the Dhuum's Rest bar and any players in Spirit Form can as well. The more Reapers that are alive, the faster the bar will fill. When I defeated Dhuum, we had all 7 Reapers alive, and 2 players in spirit form spamming the skill, and it filled up in 10-15 mins. There is really no point to damaging Dhuum until this bar is filled, as you are focusing on healing/staying alive and getting the bar filled, and he has a powerful self heal that pretty much counters all damage you are able to do to him during that time. Keeping his minions and champions in check is what I found to be key so they don't overwhelm the Reapers. Once the bar is filled, you can then focus all your power on attacking Dhuum. When his health is reduced to 25% he will be put to rest again. Again, keeping his minions and champions in check is vital, but this is pretty easily done when Dhuum is using his Reaping of Dhuum skill and disappearing/reappearing through the floor and you can't attack him anyway. Throughout the fight, if you die, you will become a spirit. If you die as a spirit, you are dead for good, unless resurrected by Scroll of Resurrection. --Musha Talk  02:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Heroes
I'd be worth to find out if heroes are also resurrected in spirit form and with a different skillset, when killed by Dhuum. It sounds unlikely to me, as heroes and henchmen weren't banished by Shiro in Imperial Sanctum, and because it seems that teleporting back to the battle involves talking to the Major, something an IA woulnd't do except if specifically scripted.-- Beren (Talk | contribs) 14:44, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Henchmen were banished. They were replaced by an enemy spirit which, when killed, returned them, requiring no AI (but the player's? hoho). It's possible some similar system happens perhaps? | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg {U|T|C} 15:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * can heroes be brought into the underworld? I thought no... -DeeAbel 15:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * @ DeeAbel, Heroes can, henchies can't -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 15:26, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Did this with heroes last night. Any hero killed (only 2 were) was returned in spirit form with the spirit skills Muppet 14:08, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Sneaky, my prideful friend! You have been found out

 * 1) "Think I'll jes' sneak this in der."
 * 2) "That sounds like an excuse, but..."
 * 3) "I CALL BULLSHIT!"

xD | <font color="Red">72  {U|T|C} 15:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

...Wtf? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.193.58.200 (talk).


 * Best understood by a wiki editor | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 06:30, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * lol. They both got Linsey'd. Paddymew 08:54, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Not fair
This isn't fair requiring those of us who are relatively new to the game and have never finished the UW to now have to do an extra (hard?) quest to get the end chest and trophy. To stop perma sin farming Anet should have just removed Shadow Form. What are they going to do to mess up FOW? Ramei Arashi 15:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Menzies battle, obviously. –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 15:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Theyll never remove a pretty much core assassin elite skill. Do you have any idea the headache that would cause the Guild Wars staff? Every permasin or shadow form user would flood every talk page they could muster up to find with their complaints over its removal and how much they hate gw and all that crap. This update is the same as many other updates. Just accept the challenge and get to be a better player because of it. This was most likely (99% sure) an update to cancel the cheep-skate UW run groups and require a proper organization of teams and skillsets. Its better than having to play "Loot clean up" behind a permasin anyhow.(edit: I hate it when I dont notice Im logged out on here)--<span style="color: darkblue; font-family: Old English Text MT, script; font-size:110%">Neithan Diniem User Neithan Diniem Sig.png]] 16:14, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Good solution for shadow form: you cannot be the target of spells, 90% chance to avoid attacks, yuo ar blind for ... seconds, when shadow form ends you are blind (yet again) for ... seconds. It will still be a great skill then (not like the ursan nerf). Also Dhuum was great idea, anet should just have made a new instance orso, UW can take 4 hours with a noobway, get killed by Dhuum is really depressing then. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:SierraEcho (talk).
 * So I heard conditions can be removed? The idea of reducing your own damage in SF is a popular one (see Feedback), and there are better ways to do it than applying a condition that forces sins to use the ever-popular spell damage. But it essentially turns the skill into "You're no longer in the game", or at best, "take a breather". It's not so simple a problem. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 16:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't mind that version of the idea at all. If they're just used as tanks, that's not as broken to me, even if I'd prefer a complete rework of the skill to something more "ninja-like"; what bothers me is when it goes from "I'll keep the aggro off my teammates" to "Look Ma, I'm UWSCing with one hand!". --70.158.147.114 18:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

lol maybe to make it a little more fair fighting Dhuum, because he does have dmg delt to him in battle it is posable to hurt him just the dmg is reduced by 90% and cant use conditions try using  Grenth's Balance on him...just a thought, could eb wrong. - Form Of Grenth
 * A new content battle with a fallen god that makes UW just a tad bit of an actual elite area isn't fair? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Everyone who did the UW before Dhuum only had to complete the 10 quests and they got the chest and trophy. Everyone who does UW now has to do the 10 quests and Dhuuum. That is not fair to new players. Dhuum should be a bonus not a requirement. Ramei Arashi 15:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In a "We set free a raging god, oh, /care, we got the statue, lets get the hell out of here" kind of way? That would make sense. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 17:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So it wasn't fair to me when I did UW with only Prophecies skills (obviously before Factions, NF and EotN, therefore no PvE skills either) and no UW chest at the end? They should retroactively introduce a free UW chest opening for each time someone did all the quests in UW before the chest was introduced. (/endsarcasm) Magua 20:37, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Armor
Now THAT is Dervish armor!!!! Me want!! -- S ilverleaf    Don't assume, Ask! 17:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Avatar of Dhuum please! -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 18:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And Abbadon! And Menzies:D Charocles 20:00, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ...and Truth! Though they probably never will due to the inherent spoiler. :/ --Alessar 21:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Elite Form (1200 seconds.) You are immune to damage and conditions. End effect: Spawn an Underworld Chest." Paddymew 08:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Will he stay forever?^^
Or will he leave soon? o: Charocles 20:00, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears he's got all the time in the world. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 20:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

The Dhuum Patrol!
Hello everyone! :D

I made a little wikiforum for all you out there who want to find people to do UW and kill Dhuum with fast and easy!

Check out The Dhuum Patrol for more info!:D

YOU WILL ALL BE DHUUMED!;DCharocles 23:21, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

pff
ANET takes the trouble to add a new boss and endgame content, and the response they get is, "wah wah wah my OP perma sin cant speed cheat through an entire zone designed to be long and arduous anymore, sob sob". 68.94.181.128 08:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, no, I've seen plenty of other people complaining about it. Not to say that I don't love the content addition personally; found out today that UW is wicked fun when you can get a balanced group to do it. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 08:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I personally hoped it would take longer before some would have killed him. <font color="LightBlue">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig4.jpg|19px|User:Fox007]] 13:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed.. Some mysterious atmosphere around it (for a longer time) should be nice. -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 13:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * yesh its awesome to complete whole UW and wipe in dhuum with pug. 195.95.208.223 13:20, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pretty difficult to protect something against invulnerability. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 13:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * True but you can solve those things. Like they did what mallyx. on the other hand it's a challenge to create a build which has enough offence to clear UW and enough defence to survive Dhuum. Dammit that skill is always coming back :/ <font color="LightBlue">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig4.jpg|19px|User:Fox007]] 14:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The unnerfed mallyx was probably the best thing in GW PvE tbh. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 18:14, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There should be some kind of save function lol <font color="LightBlue">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig4.jpg|19px|User:Fox007]] 15:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

So
next to show up will be Menzies from Fissure of Woe? <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  16:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd like more realms of the gods instead :/ Paddymew 18:51, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * same here though <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  19:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I do think Menzies is next to be added, but I hope they do not forget about Ravenheart Gloom as that is where Menzies' forces (and hinted for Menzies himself) to reside. As for the new realms, Linsey has stated that the Live Team doesn't have the manpower for a full blown new area - though I'd love them myself. I say get more people on the Live Team! (and get the Test Krewe going!) -- Konig/ talk 20:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Any new content in this game is highly welcome. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Dhuum is immune to both knock downs and conditions.
I just want to verify, are there any conditions that affect him at all? I'm wondering in particular if he's immune to burning? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.147.242.121 (talk).
 * It doesn't really matter, you don't kill him, so damage is almost irrelevant. -63.16.85.138 21:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be too hasty. But no to the first guy, no conditions work on him. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 21:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Shadowform doesn't cause conditions, so it doesn't matter ;D 72.181.47.223 21:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * @second IP, it would matter, because although you don't kill him, excluding skills which give benefits when opponents are under conditions, you do have to bring Dhuum down to 25% health. Damage is needed, not just defense. -- Konig/ talk 23:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Plus said immunities get rid of a lot of snaring possibilities. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 00:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Verified. There are no conditions that affect him.  He is completely immune to ALL conditions AND knockdown.  --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19x19px]] Talk  02:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is he immune as in, he never gets the condition, or they have their duration set to zero (in the same manner as avatar of melandru)? I ask, because fragility may be a fun skill in the latter case.99.154.122.66 16:48, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * only 1 way to find out <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  17:22, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe he never gets the condition. But if you are able to use Fragility on him, please let us know.  --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19x19px]] Talk  01:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Snare for Dhuum
I just used this against Dhuum. From my experience it ran it's full course of 20 Seconds of 40% slower. I will be using this skill every time I go see Dhuum.
 * Well, this and Water Hexes. (Unless Hexes have no effect as well?) --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 07:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hexes have half time on him from what I saw.
 * Nice find. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 14:10, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It helps like crazy, he just loafs around, as much of a threat, much easier to avoid.--Barionic Hawkeye 06:09, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

The Nightbringer
For those of you who know Dawn of War/Warhammer 40k, Doesn't this guy seem eerily similar to the Nightbringer? He even has a gauss-green glow XD 22:09, 24 November 2009 (UTC) The Crippster
 * Both of which are classic grim reaper imitations. I wouldn't go so far as to add it to the page, but there is a resemblance. -- NuVII [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 22:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

UW Future
What's going to happen once the gods start paying less and less attention to the world and provided even less intervention? It seems, at the moment, that Dhuum cannot be stopped and will just perpetually free himself as the heroes try to stem the evil in the UW. So are we now Dhuumed to dealing with the fallen god? Or perhaps he'll free himself entirely once the dragons become active and heroic attention is turned elsewhere? I also find it funny how he can spawn minions (even when he's sealed) and they count as life energy to fuel his revival. Hax. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:09, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Minions are just big sacks of bones :P <font color="LightBlue">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig4.jpg|19px|User:Fox007]] 19:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I meant the skeletons and such. The skeletons at least are confirmed to be a source of life-energy as we were advised not to kill them specifically for that reason.  So he can just spawn armies of his minions, kill other stuff for energy, or his minions are killed.  Win/win.  The dragons will start sending slews of new initiates of the afterlife.  The power of the god Grenth was not enough to stop Dhuum permanently, the gods are moving farther and farther away despite messed up shit happening, the human race is dwindling (the humans seem to be the strongest believers in the pantheon of the six)...  Dhuum for GW2 expansion campaign plx!  Right after Elona/Cantha :3 Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * UW Future 127.0.0.1 19:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * More like UW 24/7
 * TBH with Future UW he's actually pointing at GW2 and the UW. <font color="LightBlue">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig4.jpg|19px|User:Fox007]] 19:49, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What interventions are the gods making now? From The Movement of the World: "Balthazar helped raise a new temple in Lion's Arch, stepping on the hearthstone of the construction and opening a gate there to the Mists, so that heroes of each world could compete in contest."  That seems like a lot more than any god has done in GW1.  24.197.253.243 20:05, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Oh look, mortals, let's get them to fight each other". Not the most awe-inspiring, dragonslaying act. Paddymew 20:11, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Let them fight each other. Since we gods can't defeat them ourselves, you know--not having bloodspike." Remember, kids: every monster lives in a perpetual and hellish Codex Arena. v_v | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 20:19, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Aliceandsven, the gods are not likely to leave their own realms and the Rift. Remember, the Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Hall of Heroes, the Rift, and the Realm of Torment are all on a different plane of existence. And the Underworld is Grenth's personal domain (he probably isn't there due to being with the other 5 creating and governing new worlds which most likely won't have magic - hopefully they learned the lesson the first time around). -- Konig/ talk 22:11, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the gods couldn't kill Abbadon either, they needed a mortal to take hsi place. Maybe grenth wasn't a mortal, but was still powerful or something. That first Shadow form guy to kill dhuum should have become god...-132.160.43.101 22:52, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't kill Dhuum, you just lock him away again. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 05:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ill walk into dhuum and become a god <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  22:12, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

The world is at end, all is gone, all is lost, but there is hope
Dhuum walks the underworld, and shall soon cross to the mortal realm. He, Abbadon, and Menzies shall destroy all civilization, whether they belong to the norn, the charr, the asura, or even the humans... with the help of the 5 gods, we shall be reborn, and given new power. The races along with the 5 gods shall defeat the 3 evil, lesser gods, and will live once again, in peace.
 * If you don't sign your posts, your prose will never be famous. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 22:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be ridiculous, of course it can be famous. He just won't be.  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 23:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, 3 Prime Evils. Paddymew 23:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I forgot, sorry! Hidan Santai 03:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Now you will be famous for your mistake. Such is the ironic tragedy of fame... mwahahaha | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 03:23, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * NO!!! GKEOWGJVHFJCRIHFTRbse!!! 98.150.215.219 05:22, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Abaddon is already old news... Unless That-Blind-Woman goes crazy Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The seer is in reality... ARACHNIA! Paddymew 20:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think the seer really is Boxxy in disguise...<font color="Black"> -- [[Image:User_Lacky_Blue_Paw_Sig.png|15px|My Talk]] <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 01:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Potayto, Potahto. Paddymew 10:59, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You's trollin. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Has he been killed in HM?
Well... has he? -- Large 19:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 19:47, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, unknown. Though someone must have reached him in HM, else the level listed is bs. -- Konig/ talk 20:15, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, we just did it last night, fight took 25 minutes. Torvarren 21:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, did it multiple times already. poke | talk 21:49, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You're all liars. Dhuum is never killed, in HM or NM. :P <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 22:27, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You lie I have killed him even tho Ive been away and have no idea what your talking about. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 22:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You lay him to rest / seal him away for awhile, you do not kill him. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 22:32, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Chalk one up for Humour Ruined By Missing The Point! woo :/ | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 22:48, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ ^ [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 22:49, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, well, that. Kill him, lay him to rest. I was just asking if he was... defeated in HM. I am in the same Alliance as Torvarren up there, and yes, they did it last night. TY. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 01:05, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you really just imply, by asking this question, that a piece of HM content in Guild Wars wasn't cleared the moment it went live? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just watched a YouTube video of Dhuum on HM being maintained at literally zero hp, by a bunch of Protective Bonded sins. So.... yeah, he's been cleared on HM. 141.165.170.138 04:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Uh...
So in pheory Guildwars is earth,exept with a dif. god of death(who LETS people be reborn) and the power of magic... Sheesh.finaly worked that out of 3 years playing x_x -- Nei l2250. 11:15, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No. In theory, Tyria (the planet in Guild Wars) exists in another dimension, with semi-active gods, magic, and a whole lot more sentient species. Paddymew 12:38, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No, no, hold on, he might be a South American medicine man from whose point of view that's entirely correct :P ... | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 14:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What I want to know is why he said different god of death... Didn't know Dwayna, Melandru, Balthazar, and Lyssa are worshiped on earth (aside from gw nerds). -- Konig/ talk 14:33, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You could argue that Melandru is another name for the female "mother" fertility goddess that many cultures have worshiped at some point in time. Paddymew 16:07, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That, or it's all just fiction. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 16:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 16:23, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * To be entirely fair, he said it was "in pheory", which we can only assume is a portmanteau of "pseudo-theory". | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 17:50, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Or we can all just assume that he has no idea what he is talking about since he thinks "theory" is "pheory". [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 17:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * GW gods ARE gods as such...just... parts of em dwayna+melendru=mother nature -- Nei l2250 User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg. 17:57, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Forgiveness = Dwayna, Retribution = Balthazar. There, God IRL. Paddymew 19:15, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * @ paddymew. Tyria's a planet huh? So i guess Cantha and Elona are also planets in the solar system? That ship you take to each of them is actually a starship? Ok. lrn lore pls -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 19:22, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * lrn2reed Paddymew 19:23, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * OMG Adrin how did you know it was a starship? [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 19:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The gates are Stargates, so the ships have to be starships. Paddymew 19:27, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thechnically a stargate moves you from one stargate to another. So maybe the ship is a stargate ship. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 19:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * One ship icon takes you to another ship icon. Therefore, starship. Paddymew 19:30, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Oho ^ ^ [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 19:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I want to know why Anet hasn't been sued. Ramei Arashi 22:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I think they have. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 22:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They are former Blizzard members, so they know how to not involve the law. Paddymew 07:14, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

snare/freeze
Binding Chains,Mind Freeze,Amity,Pacifism,Icy Shackles-anyone tried? --SinS 11:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Dhuum. Hexes have half the duration on him, conditions do not work, and non-hex non-condition snares work full time. -- Konig/ talk 14:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Like Tryptophan Signet. Works wonders. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 14:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sry,haven't noticed --SinS 19:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to say, snare is entirely useless against Dhuum. The only time he ever killed one of us, was when he use his fatty skill the pimp slashy one that makes him jump around. This is pretty unavoidable and snare wouldn't help against that at all. besides, tryptophan is overall useless in the UW except where you supposedly say it is against Dhuum(which its not). Wasted skill IMO 71.59.135.73 03:45, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I look Undead
Certainly, when I equip Zombie or Skeleton face paint, my character looks undead. However, my character does not take extra Holy Damage. This note seems strange. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * God of death, cape, grim reaper etc. etc. feels like a good note to me. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 21:42, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You only look undead insofar as your face looks skeletal or decayed, but everything else looks normal unless you're Textmodding or a Necromancer, and one of their insignias does, in fact, increase holy damage to the user. Undead creatures use particular models, and I'd say Dhuum almost looks like a reaper or a wraith, except for the scythe and some bits of armor, of course. Also, note the distinction between Dhuum, who doesn't take double holy damage, and his minions, which do (although that part of the note was removed from the page...I think it should be put back). I'd say the note is justified and not at all strange. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 21:46, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) People already had "Dhuum minions, unlike Dhuum himself, are sensitive to Holy damage." note, since that note was more for the minions than Dhuum, I moved it to the Minion of Dhuum and Champion of Dhuum (which were yet to be made). I have also noted that people have said in game occassionally to bring Holy Damage for Dhuum - wanting to make sure that people do not think he take double holy damage, instead of removing the note, I simply rephrased it for Dhuum. It was also believed - though quickly changed - that Dhuum was Undead (which was why, in an earlier section on this page, you can see me asking for confirmation on an edit about Dhuum being undead). Like I said in the summary, if people don't think the note should be there, then remove it, though it may be that people have thought him undead many a times in the past. -- Konig/ talk 21:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * On Rotscale's page it lists him as a Zombie. Other Bone Dragons are Undead. There is a much stronger case to suspect he would be undead than Dhuum's appearance makes. Assumably, the fact that Dhuum's affiliation is listed as god and not undead is indication that he is a god and not undead. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 22:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well remove it if you wish, it was practically put there, I just removed the minion portion since that doesn't deal with Dhuum, and I stated why. And it has been suspected him to be undead already, those who don't look at the "god" part, or perhaps people thinking he acts like these guys. -- Konig/ talk 22:45, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Zombies are a subset of undead, and undead is an affiliation rather than a creature type in some cases. Bone Dragons and Rotscale are considered both, even though Rotscale doesn't take double holy. (Look at the pages you linked to.)
 * Dhuum looks like a Smoke Phantom or Wraith, both classified as ghosts, and some ghosts (the pages for Ghosts and Undead are inconsistent on this) take double holy damage. And Rotscale looks like (and is) undead but doesn't take double. I say we should leave the note, even clarify so as to easily compare/contrast with the minion pages, since it's as odd and noteworthy as Rotscale vs Bone Dragons, in my opinion. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 23:02, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Dervish
Just curious, how did you figure he's a Dervish? <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 22:46, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In the history, someone changed it to Necromancer, saying the unofficial wiki has proof that Dhuum used Soul Reaping - but other than that, if he has a profession, it would be assumed Dervish, due to the Scythe and Scythe Attacks. Though that proves nothing, to be honest. -- Konig/ talk 22:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we all know what "assume" spells... :/ Cynn wields a sword in the Norn tournament, and Eve dances like an ele, so what? Also, what Scythe attacks? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:02, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * For one, he wields a scythe. For another, this. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 23:04, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Reaping of Dhuum: Scythe Attack. Dhuum deals 200 damage to a new target with each strike. etc. etc. -- Konig/ talk
 * Jormungand. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:08, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * See above: "Though that proves nothing, to be honest." We've established that he's not necessarily a dervish, and since the monster skills do consistent damage it doesn't really matter. He wields a scythe, so either he has points in scythe mastery (primary or secondary; doesn't matter much for level 30 bosses) or it's a purely cosmetic weapon skin while Dhuum uses it. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 23:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So, it's not confirmed that it's Dervish. That's all I needed to know. GuildWiki is trying to see if he has Soul Reaping for sure, preliminary data suggests that it's very likely, though not 100%. I guess we could also ask ANet, or wait for the pretty little purple number on a screenshot, but so far I think it's "Unknown" rather than Dervish. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:35, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This is the same thing that has happened with Shiro. Nobody knows and it can't be confirmed unless ANet says something.<font color="Black"> -- [[Image:User_Lacky_Blue_Paw_Sig.png|15px|My Talk]] <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 23:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So, whom to ask? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Lindsey seems to be the most involved (that has a meaningful presence here). <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 23:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Joe Kimmes would know and have more free time than Linsey seems to have. Unfortunately, we cannot solve this issue like we did with Shiro (in which he dropped an assassin tome) - since he doesn't die. -- Konig/ talk 00:05, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Seems like Linsey has not been active on the GWW for a while. Emily? We could also wait and see what GuildWiki research reveals. A purple nuber would be positive for Necromancer, but its absence leaves it open again. Wait for that first, anyway. <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 00:09, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as you guys keep the licensing in mind. :) &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 00:17, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * What does licensing have to do with screenshots? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 00:20, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Touché. Disregard what I wrote. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 00:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * @Rose: Linsey hasn't been active much, but her activity has mostly been involving Dhuum, which is why I mentioned her specifically. Joe would probably know, Emily would probably have to check with one of the others (not that that's a bad thing). <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 12:12, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

If you can't be sure of Dhuum's profession based on skills and weapon then why do the 5 current gods have profession icons next to them as if to indicate their profession. Plus other bosses with only monster skills are labeled with a profession. Skills and a weapon don't prove 100% but it sure beats the opposing argument which is just "not enough proof". 2 beats zero. 141.225.77.226 07:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * A boss can drop elite skill tomes of its professions in Hard Mode, but Dhuum can't be killed. He uses a scythe and gains energy hen stuff dies, though, so we can at least assume that he is N/D. The other gods can't have a profession, though, since they each embody something of several professions. Dwayna doesn't use smiting, and Balthazar doesn't use healing. Paddymew 07:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The gods are listed as the profession of which they are the main patron saint of for the core professions (So Dwayna=Monk, Balthazar=Warrior, Melandru=Ranger, Grenth=Necromancer, Lyssa=Mesmer), which is not only inaccurate but also the wrong way to deem the profession. Because we cannot just limit the core professions if we try to do it that way, or main patronage. Meaning Balthazar should be a W/Mo/P (if we leave out Elementalist and Dervish which worship all 5 gods equally), Dwayna is Mo/P, Lyssa is Me/A, Grenth is N/Rt, and Melandru is still just R. The original five gods do not have professions. And as said, for other professions which use all monster skills, they drop tomes in HM, which is how we determined Shiro's profession to be Assassin after ages of bickering between Warrior or Assassin. -- Konig/ talk 13:45, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno how you determined those multiprofessions. I think it is silly to give a god a profession as though it chose when it came of age, "I wanna be a Mesmelementalist(?)" etc. However, in Pre-Searing those gods are tied with those professions strongly -- I don't remember or think explicitly, but Rangers' quests tell about Melandru and her natureyness, Monks are offered to serve Dwayna in the abbey? Maybe?... My memory fails me there. But more importantly that gods not incarnated as a professionful character shouldn't be assigned one | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 14:39, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Grenth would have to be a patron of the Assassins as well, unless he hates them for letting Dhuum break free. Paddymew 15:08, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * GRENTH HATES SINS!! HE WILL CURSE THEM WITH HIS CURSEY CURSINESS!! On the flip side, maybe the curse will say: Target Cannot use shadow form. INSTANT NERF!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! PERMA SHALL BE NO MORE!! OK, go that out of my system, now back to talking about professions. I think he is just a dervish with a Monster-only scythe that gives you energy when you die. He could also be a SIN that grenth hates because he can solo the underworld with his normal skill set. He is a dervish, and you must agree!!!!! 98.150.215.219 08:45, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Lyssa is the patron god of Assassins. Mediggo 13:54, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Scythe
Heya guys! Just to share my opinion, I think a note about the Scythe would be an O.K. thing to have on this page. While Seventy two's edit summary is correct, people will still go like "Whoo, omgomgdisscytheissoimbacoolwheredoigetit?!" when they see the picture of Dhuum, so I think it's helpful information. &mdash; Why 00:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * /Yes. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 02:34, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever the consensus is (let's cater to a standard that can't read too much words). But I won't bother about the point. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 03:57, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's useful to know. We include the weapons that other characters wield on some pages, though consistency is a bit off the last I remember browsing. Anyway, I agree. EDIT: Butbutbutbutbut I was just logged in three seconds ago. I swear I will never get used to this wiki stuff. --[-Kyoshi-]::[-Talk-] 05:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Dhuum reference to another god?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid,_the_Shepherd --Bloodvayne 05:59, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * More likely just a different spelling for the phonetic "Doom." Cool idea though. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 06:02, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The spelling thing is obvious, just brainstorming on were else they could get it. Dumuzid, in the link, is a Sumerian god, and one of Dhuums 4 horsemen is named Madruk also the name of another Sumerian god (Marduk). I dunno, kinda fits. I'm not gonna go throw it in the article based on minor speculation tho :p --Bloodvayne 06:04, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Brainstorming is always good. Restraint in editing is also good. ^^ I doubt they got it from there, but it's possible. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 06:41, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "Not to be confused with Dumuzid, the Fisherman." :D
 * Interestingly, a linguistics student will tell you (and I am telling you) that "doom" is a P-I.E. word through Proto-Germanic (O.E. "dom", meaning "law") and is thus very likely close to the P-I.E. "Dum-" in the Babylonian name. As far as I am aware, they both come from the P-I.E. root "dhe-" / "dhu-" which means "law; truth; correct" (cf. Skt. dhaman- "law," Gk. themis "law," Lith. dome "attention"). In fact, the Wikipedia article on Dumuzid the Fisherman says his name means "true/right son", so perhaps..
 * Which is not to say, of course, that "Dhuum" is from "Dumuzid", only that "Dhuum" is from "Doom" and both "Doom" and "Dumuzid" are from "Dum-" :P | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 15:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking at it, Dhuum does share similarities with Dumuzid - how I have been pronouncing Dumuzid is Doom-oo-zid, and with the "god before god" idea, it could be possible they just too Dum out of Dumuzid then lengthened it. Definably a potential trivia, but it could just be a reference to Doom. Nice find either way. -- Konig/ talk 16:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want go ahead and put as "Might be" Trivia, and if you do, also put Doom (word) as a might be since all his titles lean to. -/- Discuss 16:18, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * However, Dumuzid's successor, Tammuz, was the god of food and vegitation, and in some studies apaprently a god of the "life-death-rebirth cycle" of nature. Sounds a lot more like Melandru to me. However, it also says that Dumuzid was "consigned to the Underworld," which clearly bears some resemblance. However, he went into the Underworld in the first place to save his dearly beloved, "Inanna," quite a difference from our cold, strict former god of death.
 * I'm not going to go into every contradiction here, since there's a lot on the page. For those interested, read the sections entitled "Ritual mourning" (which describes, as best I can tell, Dumuzid's death) and "Dumuzid and Inanna" (which describes to some detail his descent into the Underworld) on the Tammuz page. Frankly it's a little confusing for me, but then again I haven't been sleeping much lately. a note should definitely be added about the phonetic spelling, since that one is obvious, but I'll let someone else look into that mythology stuff and add a note if they feel like it. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:15, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Kyoshi, the origin doesn't have to be specific - afterall, we have Lyssa's potential origin as a goddess of rabies and madness. Hardly does that fit Beauty and Illusion. Well, Madness and Illusion fit, but you get my point, I hope. Another case of references would be the Norn - in mythology they were three goddess sisters of fate (similar to the three Greek goddess sisters of fate). Names and descriptions will hardly be the same. The closest we got seems to be the Naga. -- Konig/ talk 17:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You know what'd be clear, concise, and believable? Just copy this section of the talk under "Trivia"! | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 17:54, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * @Konig: Yeah, you have a point, but it seems unlikely it was derived. I won't protest about adding it though, because it's more likely than the Norn derivation, anyway. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * @Konig: Regarding the Lyssa link. Did you know that it refers to an album by the band "Nightfall" at the top of the page? :) Paddymew 20:10, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * @Kyoshi, on the Norn connection, most things in the Far Shiverpeaks (Jotun, Fenrir, Jormungand, and Norn) have references to Norse Mythology - and Norn names are all Norse. @Paddymew, yeah, there is a band called Nightfall (doubt that the campaign name is a reference to it, as the campaign name seems to be derived from the common phrase in the game which shares the name of the campaign's storybook. The album "Lyssa: Rural Gods and Astonishing Punishments" by Nightfall is obviously a reference to the Greek goddess. It is just one big coincidence. -- Konig/ talk 21:50, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, but it's a botched Norse reference at best; I don't think the current norn have much ability of foresight, nor that weaving prophets would have had much to do with bears. I'm not going to say I'm adamant on such a point because I have no idea what the mythology says beyond what's been noted in trivia sections, and I don't particularly want to read into every piece of potential trivia, which is why I don't particularly care what people decide to add as trivia. Assuming good faith and such. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 00:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, most of the references in-game are "botched" in that respect. Most in-game references aren't a 100% equivalent of their RL counterpart, it just seems that there are similarities. Have you ever watched Sons of Anarchy? That show has so many similarities to "Hamlet", that it's almost possible to predict how the show will progress. But there are massive differences in story progression, and not to mention it's about a biker gang, it's obviously not 100% Hamlet reference. But it's still there, similar to the GW references we have here and there. --Bloodvayne 05:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Kyoshi, that was, in fact, my point. All references are just a reference, not a word for word taking from them - not even Tolkien's use of the Dwarves and Elves are halfway accurate, let along those version of the Dark Elves (aka Orcs and Uruk-Hai) which is in fact a term constantly interchanged with dwarf in Norse Mythos (yes, Dark Elf=Dwarf). -- Konig/ talk 15:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

His movement/teleportation
Damn, that's the coolest movement mechanic of anything I've ever seen in GW. Super inconvenient when fighting him, but mega cool to watch (/run from). Can we get that introduced as a parallel mechanic to Shadow Stepping por favor? :D 141.165.171.194 22:54, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhnope. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 22:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The post was mostly just a fan raving, so 2) No need for your self-important buzzkilling here, kthnx. 141.165.171.194 23:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You know, hell. Secondly, if you can't manage to dredge up any sort of argument detailing why introducing a mechanic IDENTICAL to an existing one would permit a retrograde effect on a CPO OR have a well-articulated and respectfully-presented debate on the aesthetics of said mechanic, don't say ANYTHING. 141.165.170.138 06:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You just spent three lines telling someone not to talk, when they only wrote a single word? I'm sure Kyoshi meant that ANet simply won't do this, since it's a waste of their time. They are, after all, very few who work at GW1. Paddymew 08:27, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Another reason why not to do this is that it ruins the "Dhuum-only" thing. It would be like duplicating Abaddon's dance. Not something that would be fun to do, taking something unique that doesn't cause e-peen and making it something that is common just doesn't seem right. -- Konig/ talk 08:48, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) That was part of it, Paddymew, but let me clarify a couple things, since they took the time. (Also, after the edit conflict, Konig is also slightly right.) First, I assumed IP meant that he/she wanted shadow stepping to operate like the portals in the ground that Dhuum steps through. Correct me if I'm wrong, IP, because apparently you're convinced enough that it would be implemented the way you ask that you wrote all that telling me to shut up after saying one word, despite saying yourself that it was unimportant fan-raving. Let's start from there before I continue on that line of thought and potentially make (as apparently it would seem to you) an even bigger ass of myself. I'll continue from there once I get an answer. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 08:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Much better than one word. Mostly this stems from the fact that Dervishes have next to nothing going for them, that isn't overshadowed entirely by another class (our weapon, most of Earth prayers, most of the Elites but the Forms). Sorry, if my reaction seemed untoward, but the 'uhnope' seemed belligerent which does not belong in a debate. Also, I'm not suggesting Shadow Stepping change, I'm saying that another kind (like Ride The Lighting did) could be implemented, not as a common feature but possibly a single Elite or single skill. Dervishes need love too. 141.165.171.240 18:13, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Much more reasonable than your previous reaction. So I guess that makes us even. No hard feelings here.
 * But on to the further elaboration. I get what you're saying now, but my points were still summed up between Paddymew's and Konig's comments; if the portal thing was added as a regular game mechanic, it would lose its effect, considering prior to that, a god was using it. Also, there's some considerable lag between jumping out of the portal and attacking, are you sure you want that? (Joking, of course.) It could be implemented, but I doubt ANet would go so far as to a) create a new elite skill for one profession only, b) have that skill be the only shadow step that profession has, and an elite, and c) make it have the same animation as a god's skill. Or in the case that I misunderstood you on the animation part, just the first two. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 19:02, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, you want dervishes to have a shadow step of any kind? They're not broken enough for you already? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 20:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Scythes need to hit nearby targets, not just adjacent ones. Also, remove the hit limit. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 21:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If Mysticism decided how many additional enemies you hit in nearby range, it would make primary dervishes good enough for PvE again. Paddymew 21:44, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Or we could, you know, nerf the overpowered things. I mean, it's already starting, if I understand and am to believe what I've heard about the next balance update. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 23:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * They're only op on things that aren't Dervishes. We can only go in one of two modes: defensive, wherein we give up our ability to effectively kill targets, or offensive, wherein our capabilities hang on whether or not the enemy has sufficient Enchantment Removal. If they do, we're about as threatening as a monk with a hammer. If a Necro decides to use Faintheartedness, we look like we have cerebral palsy! The class is so misbalanced that almost any counter in-game is effective against us, anti-melee or anti-caster! So what exactly is awesome about triple the consequence of swinging your weapon, in a mesmer-crazy meta, every 1.75 seconds? Or either cantering around at normal run speed while our team is annihilated, or being the fastest and most deadly only to find that it makes you FIRST to get owned? Also, no hard feelings either. But, you were saying? 141.165.171.240 02:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I think I need to clarify myself again, but I'm not sure who you're responding to. By OP things, I meant pretty much farming builds and invincibuilds and typical nuking builds (see: Searing Flames, Shadow Form, etc). Of course, if those were nerfed, it would require some rebalancing on the enemies' side as well, since those have proven some of the only effective ways to deal with high-end PvE enemies in a timely fashion. I'm going to stop extrapolating from there since I just tried to type something out three times and started digressing each time. Lack of sleep messes with my head like nothing else. --Kyoshi (Talk) 06:46, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * When has the Dervish ever had some ridiculous PvE build either? Most team builds in the PvE meta have no role for Dervishes to fill and better yet, can't adapt them to Dervishes, leaving them entirely out. I know this doesn't belong here, but it seems now to me that ANet tried to make a very versatile class - one that could fulfill multiple or a great variance of roles - and that caused its construction to be SO stratified, that classes whose roles, by definition, Dervishes are made to "also" fulfill, just outclass them by miles. We can do everything, just not as well as everyone else. Ouchie. I suppose I'm digging pretty deep, in looking for hope for this class though. :/ 141.165.171.240 08:06, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I see your point, but there are a few ways they can get out there. I mean, they have some skills that activate best when you're /not/ enchanted, right? (I think...I don't really play dervish. I had one a while back when the Elite Avatars hype was up.) Try combining that with just an avatar and attack skills or something...I'unno. The game is broken right now, so something is going to be misbalanced, and I guess Dervs are partly a victim of that. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:33, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Enchantless Dervishes exist, yes, but they're by far not as useful in PvE and in PvP they mostly serve as a blitz, taking enemies that expect to enchant removal any Derv to death off guard. That said, while they have good DPS, they die rather quickly and rely on keeping their enemy on the defensive, with a good back/midline, to stay alive. Entirely inviable for PvE. I understand what you're saying, but most classes suffer from broken skills. Take this from someone who loves to play Dervish: the PROFESSION is broken. 141.165.171.240 18:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * A'ight, well, make a username on here and add some suggestions to the Feedback portal. To be honest I think it's mostly that everything else is broken and Dervishes are balanced, but I understand how having weaknesses of both casters and melee can be an issue. More versatility between the two could have fixed that, I'm sure. Anyway, I can't really contribute much since I don't play Dervishes, so I dunno if what I've said so far is accurate, even. I'm just gonna leave it at that. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 19:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Dervishes/Scythes are not overpowered. You have to be a stupid player standing next to two other team mates in order for the scythe to be anything remotely close to overpowered.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Ms. Alice. I've been wanting to say that to several people. To Kyoshi, the explanation may actually make sense, but that presents a FAR larger problem if so, which will relegate me to the ranks of all the other Balance-Seekers that are NEVER going to get satisfaction from the demographic-mindful game designers (no disrespect intended, I know how business can be). Rather depressing, since I've put a ridiculous amount of time into my Dervish - esp. as a scythe collector - only to have their roles hampered in every sector of the game. 141.165.171.240 22:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is recognized by most of us here on the wiki, but it does represent a larger problem, though the game designers have also recognized the imbalance. (There are supposed to be major changes to farming builds in this month's skill update; they DO listen to us sometimes.) It's a big job, but it's a half-decent game at least, so it's worth a shot to fix it and make it better, if only to kill time until GW2. /shrug --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 06:55, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * /agree. I've now submitted the above into Feedback. (Above IP, now with an account) Sec Qr Euin 05:05, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Dhuum dance
Well, after we were pwned by Dhuum, he started to dance the male derv dance emote... maybe to be added to trivia section? If needed i also have a screener. --  Pixy | Talk 19:33, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I could have sworn this was already noted. I'll add something about it. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 19:35, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Killing Dhuum
OK, we got to Dhuum, and the Dhuum's rest bar was almost half full, but his health bar was nearly empty. At the point he would've died, the entire game 007'd everyone in the party and no-one was able to reconnect. Anyone else had this experience? Magua 22:03, 5 December 2009 (UTC) BS, my group killed him last night. Also, considering Life Guardian's post, it was probably a full server error that you got an unlucky hit from. Try, try again. --Kyoshi (Talk) 00:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Added information: We had a 600 tanking him with a stack of candy canes and no-one in the party had died up to that point. Note to self: Don't kill Dhuum, it's not big and it's not clever, and gets your entire party kicked from the game Magua 22:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone else posted something similar, somewhere... Sounds like they didn't think anyone was going to be able to do so, so it causes a crash. Have you reported it to, or via the bug reporting pages here on the wiki? <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 23:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * When was it? Because last night there was an epic err007 attack. We had like 4 of them in foundry. Life Guardian 23:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "Note to self: Don't kill Dhuum, it's not big and it's not clever, and gets your entire party kicked from the game"
 * As I thought I'd explained in my first post, I didn't say you can't defeat him and spawn the Underworld Chest, what I was trying to suggest, from our experience, is if you get his health bar to zero, before the Dhuum's Rest bar is full, it appears to cause a crash. Others in the Alliance party have submitted bug reports, but we were a party of 8 from all parts of Europe and America, so I'd assume the chances of all of us getting a simultaneous err007 AT THE EXACT TIME HIS HEALTH HIT ZERO, would be lessened than if we were all playing through the same ISPs and routers. We'd had random members drop out several times through err007 during the preceeding completion of the UW quests, but everytime they'd been able to reconnect, however the full party err007 removed the instance, which left us nothing to reconnect to. As someone else has already said, they've seen something similar posted somewhere else, which was pretty much the question I was asking to begin with when I said "Anyone else had this experience?" Magua 12:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Now we just gotta find out if he drops tomes in HM, so we can define his profession. Mediggo 13:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuse me on that, I misread. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 06:49, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I am sure that the fight against Dhuum isn't bugged in any way. EVERY physway group kills Dhuum before his restbar is full, i've done many physway runs, yet i, or anyone else in my party ever got a disconnect while fighting Dhuum. Probably your party had bad luck, since the GW servers do sometimes error a bit, usually giving a err7 (blaming your internet connection).

Profession
If he's not primary Dervish, he is secondary Dervish. If he does not gain energy via Soul Reaping, he is most likely Dervish primary. Seriously, he uses Dervish scythe, and performs Dervish dance when victorious. What else do you need? Mediggo 14:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: many models perform the emotes of other professions, as with tonics; and as fo' the scythe, weapons aren't limited by profession. I would say that it doesn't matter whatsoever what profession he is, since with monsters we usually end up finding the "match of best fit" and have plenty of anomalies around; in this case I can't see any advantage in finding out for sure his profession. In my own opinion, however, they just gave him a scythe to go along with his appearance of being Death "the Grim Reaper". | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 14:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Does he even need to be ANY profession? I don't see one listed for Abaddon. Dhuum is a God, where does it state he has to conform to any of the existing professions available to players? Magua 15:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Abaddon doesn't wield a weapon, but he does do a part of the warrior dance, as Dhuum does the dervish dance. Paddymew 15:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Eve has female elementalist emotes. Mhenlo has warrior emotes. The models aren't, therefore, end-all proof on professions. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:35, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Kisu, who is a Ritualist, but does the warrior dance. With other "non-profession" Bosses such as Shiro and Abaddon, the way I've seen it figured out what they are is killing them enough times in Hard Mode until they drop a tome, which if my memory recalls for Shiro, it is Assassin, and for Abaddon, it is Elementalist. We cannot test this with Dhuum, so all we know is that he uses the Dervish model and weilds a scythe - we can test for Necromancer, and Assassin (via critical strikes, but ouch). I don't think he has any enchantments, so we cannot test for Dervish that way. -- Konig/ talk 17:47, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming you can bond him when entering the HoJ, then take the bond off - will prove if he is a derv <font color="black" face="courier new">¤Dark  ';~;' <font color="darkslategray" face="courier new">Chaos¤  00:08, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless he has 0 Mysticism. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 10:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Even then, an NPC can have more than two professions, and isn't limited by primary attributes. Like when you get a blessing for your secondary profession's primary attribute: It isn't listed, and you can't raise the attribute yourself, but the effect is there. Paddymew 15:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

So in that case we can find out what he is partly, but not what his primary is...though if he was part dervish I think we would probably assume he was primary dervish. --Kyoshi (Talk) 15:58, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The only way to know for sure which profession(s) he is would be to kill him until he drops a tome. But yeah, we would have to assume that he is a dervish in some way. It would be really cool if he had all of the avatar skills... Paddymew 16:00, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You could just ask, you know. Considering he was just created, he's probably fresh in the minds of the people that programmed him. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 16:04, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * But that's no fun. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 16:05, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And if we type loud enough, the programmers might come to this page so we don't have to contact them. I REALLY WONDER WHAT PROFESSION DHUUM IS. Paddymew 16:28, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So I asked Joe, let's see what happens. :P I wonder, does a falling tree in the forest make a sound if nobody is there to hear it? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 16:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. Turn your recorder on, and leave the forest when a tree is about to fall. :P Paddymew 16:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * But if we're being really picky, the recorder is there to "hear" it. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 16:41, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Then again, so is the tree and the rest of the forest, since sound waves hit them as they hit the human ear. Paddymew 16:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Dammit. Now we need a vacuum to test this. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:15, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * We can answer this one, since unlike when the question was first asked, we know what sound is - namely, moving pressure waves in air. If the tree falls in a forest, it does indeed make a sound. If the falling tree is in a vacuum, it doesn't. Isn't physics fun? :P Draxynnic 16:48, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Hard Mode, don't all monsters have 20 attribute points in every attribute they have? Thus, if Dhuum was part Dervish - primary or secondary - would he not have 20 Mysticism? Just as if he was a Necromancer, he would have 20 Soul Reaping, or an Assassin would be 20 Critical Strikes, etc. etc. whether or not he is a primary or secondary in that profession? So the way to find out if he is a Necromancer, Dervish, or Assassin would be to fight him in Hard Mode and see if he ever gains energy/health from the attributes using various methods (dying, pre-bonding, and getting hit by a critical respectively). Then, if he is found to be one, to see if he is primary or secondary of that profession, would be to repeat the same actions in Normal Mode - if he doesn't gain energy, he either is set to 0, or that is his secondary. -- Konig/ talk 17:36, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't know that about HM...I must not read up enough. I fought Dhuum in NM just a few days ago. I didn't see him gaining energy from deaths or crits (assuming he had crits sometime during the 10-15 minutes we fought him). So if he's any profession, his primary is probably Dervish. Someone test by putting enchants on him next time they fight him. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're wrong. Ref: Charr_Ash_Thief and Charr_Shaman. See stats in hard mode. <font color="#A55858">Misery  17:48, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Freedom Bound and Joe Kimmes! :D Paddymew 21:15, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * What did FreedomBound do? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 00:06, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Provided inspiration? >.> But, yeah, Rose gets the credit, she asked the question. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 00:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of asking for a while, just got tired of the discussions and the reverts on both wikis. Paddy's "screaming" was the trigger, though. :P [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  01:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, just saw Freedom made the edit. THANKS ROSE! :D Paddymew 15:28, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, yw. I was just picking on you some more. :P Your screaming cracked me up, probably more than it should've. ^_^ [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 03:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The only time caps lock did something useful? :P Paddymew 06:10, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Rangers = useless?

 * 1) Dhuum's skills cannot be disabled.
 * 2) Dhuum is immune to all conditions.

Now is it just me or does that make rangers kind of naff vs Dhuum? My main char is a primary ranger and, other than going touch ranger *shudders*, it seems to me that a ranger has his/her work cut out facing Dhuum ... Distracting Shot wont disable his skills any longer than usual and you can't apply conditions to him. Unless actually he suffers from conditions but for 0s, making Fragility an option? --Combatter 03:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * During this battle there are still other things for you to do other than focus on dhuum. So your ranger will be useless only if you decide it. Yseron - 90.15.58.129 04:04, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I hear if you have time to lay the right traps all around you can significantly inhibit the minions. Also, high survivability. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 04:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You could also die and run around in spirit form. Paddymew 06:02, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There is also the Barrage+Splinter/Nightmare Weapon option. Personally, I think that if your build focuses on conditions and shut down, you should either focus on minions alone or purposefully die off to deal 250 damage every 5 seconds and be a helper with DP and HP. -- Konig/ talk 17:33, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Needling+Glass Arrows+IATS!+Scan takes him down pretty quickly after he's at half. Erring Ryft 22:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

HP
how much hp does this guy has?--99.243.161.169 04:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * he definitly has over 9000 health <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  04:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well let's see...Kanaxai has about 20,000 (20k) health, so I am going to guess that it's a lot more than that.<font color="Black"> -- [[Image:User_Lacky_Blue_Paw_Sig.png|15px|link=User_talk:Lacky|My Talk]] <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 11:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * His Health is approximately 61,500. Link Here For Data: http://i45.tinypic.com/fndaba.pngMagicoverdrive 09:08, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * One measurement of only 5 pixels leaves too much "wiggle" room for rounding. It could be rounded from 4.6 to 5.5 (depending on rounding method), leaving an error of about 20%! That adds up to a lot. And 61,500 seems like kind of a weird number. A larger measurement, such as at least 4 Ghostly Furies, would be more precise (remember the difference between accuracy and precision, not the same thing), and would greatly reduce the rounding error. Other than that, good job on taking those screens. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 15:10, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So he is the creature with the most HP in gw are I rait ? 84.44.252.109 00:24, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like it. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 02:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I found 56000 health so anyway around 60k 92.81.231.30 13:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * it took him 77 min to regen from 25% to max. I think i can proove with screenshot. We finished at 41 min and he was full health at 1 hr and 58 min. do the math i'd say. as far as i saw he wasn't healed by reapers. 82.95.65.117 20:22, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I screened two single infuses. Both gave 5 pixels of 1245 while the hero had 633 max health and 122% at infuse. That gives something between 77.6k and 111.8k Edit: 81.3k and 117.2k... I swapped two digits.
 * Magicoverdrive took one pixel too much in the calculation, the screen shows a 4 pixel difference. 1230*250/4≈77k resp. 62.7k to 99.2k. After adding some more measuring inaccuracy I'd say his health is something between 75k 80k and 100k. – aRTy 23:18, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Odd. Was this on HM instead of NM? &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 19:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it was NM. But as I wrote, Magicoverdrive took one pixel too much, so up to now I don't see anything odd here :) – 84.131.105.141 03:23, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Dhuum got stuck
If u put a few casters on the little round Pedestool thing, he'll get stuck there and u can kill him from there, without him using skills or attacking
 * Screenshot or Video or this dident happen

Discworld anyone?
I mean I'm the only one that see the similarities between the Death in the Discworld, and Dhuum? All caps talk, scythe, dead stuff? --84.2.203.217 22:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * All caps talk is, from what I heard once, indicative of a messenger of death, or something like that. Scythe is the Grim Reaper's weapon in most depictions, and therefore also indicative of death.
 * If you could provide a link (as it seems like a very obscure reference) maybe we could give some ground to your claim. But as it is, indications of dead things = dead things. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 23:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * THEN THERE IS A HUGE CORRELATION BETWEEN TROLLS AND MESSENGERS OF DEATH!! | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 23:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * My original tought was this character :, and while I see your point, this Death is supposed to be the parody of any and all things associated with death. Such is the way things are in the Discworld.--84.2.203.217 00:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to believe that this is a case of a common influence rather than one influencing another and this one in turn influencing another.
 * @72: And there is a huge correlation between you and trolls! Oh dear, this could get messy. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 00:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you are right. It was only a tought. --84.2.203.217 00:50, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll find that thoughts are not discouraged here. Unless you're a troll. =P --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 01:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Merchant Summoning Stones
Since these are much more readily available to people than other stones that have interupts. The guy has distracting blow, and if you pop it in Dhuum's chamber he finds a way to interupt Judgement of Dhuum. Makes the final battle much, much easier. 70.51.56.237 23:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Reaper of the Bots
"Dhuum? Yes, that is one of his many names. He is also known as Ban Inevitable. The ender of RMT, The Ban at the Edge of Darkness... Some call him the Omega Ban... The Ban in the Void... The Final Ban..."

sorry, i had to

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 00:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The first one was funny, the rest were overkill. -- Konig / talk 00:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah :( Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 2.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:46, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think they should re-equip him with a BANana scythe now.71.253.10.181 02:22, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Can anyone confirm if Dhuum arrives for only perma-bans achieved through botting, or whether he will come for even one or three day bans of spammers or something less serious? 66.219.148.4 04:16, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well done, sir. A cookie for you ^^ ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 04:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Epic. can we archive this page now? 70.139.49.71 06:18, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree.
 * Perhaps this is the half of me currently asleep talking, but I rather liked how you'd several parody names and not just one. User A F K When Needed Signature Icon.jpg A F K  When  Needed 09:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Banscythe D: Waar Kijk Je Naar 07:16, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, did he only show up in the PvP area's or PvE as well for ppl? -- Slash, BURN!, Delete... 07:57, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Only the banned (or their friends) would know. However, if we go on the theory that Dhuum is there to show the botters who's boss (and not just give a big show for everyone), probably he shows up for them personally too | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 02:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Only the banned (or their friends) would know. However, if we go on the theory that Dhuum is there to show the botters who's boss (and not just give a big show for everyone), probably he shows up for them personally too | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 02:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Dispute?
I'm sorry, but what is disputed? The only thing was the addition of a tag which if one were to read here and here, one would realize that the tag is doing its job and one should also know that tags are not something to dispute truth be told... -- Konig / talk 23:54, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Who posted the dispute tag? <font color="#2E8B57 ">Siris / <font color="#000000 ">talk  00:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Just sifted through the history, it seems to be an issue with a Feature tag. User 1 (as i forget their name) posted the Feature tag, and User 2 removed it. etc etc etc, then someone posted the dispute tag probably to bring the dispute to everyone's attention. from the edit notes the guy who kept undoing the feature tag posted something like "not part of the article" which sounds to me (novice pov of course) that they dont know why it was there so they undid it. <font color="#2E8B57 ">Siris / <font color="#000000 ">talk  00:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Zesbeer added the tag as per the first link I posted and Backsword removed it and added the dispute tag. -- Konig / talk 01:30, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Undid the tag. The only thing in dispute is whether or not you put a  tag on articles that are or may soon be featured; the only one disputing it is Backsword, who also added the  tag; a quick reading of policy or a look to the wiki consensus would end the dispute. |  7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 02:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * agreed 72, i also like how Backsword hasn't voiced his option anywhere.- [[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 02:26, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ignore his input?... if he wants to dispute this but not chime in over the course of days, i vote to choose our choice. :P <font color="#2E8B57 ">Siris / <font color="#000000 ">talk  20:45, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Dispute tag was already removed due to his lack of input. -- Konig / talk 23:12, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ^5 <font color="#2E8B57 ">Siris / <font color="#000000 ">talk  18:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Stonefist Insignia
It says that he can only be knockeddown if the knockdown is enhanced. Does this include Stonefist Insignia? 24.224.189.138 17:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. -- Konig / talk 22:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Then shouldn't that note say "Dhuum can't be knocked down unless the duration of the knockdown is 3 seconds or longer"? Cause "enhanced" is a little vague. --Silver Edge 22:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I wasn't the one who tested it. So I'm not sure on the time. -- Konig / talk 22:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If I know anything about coding, which I probably don't, there are 2 options:
 * Dhuum's AI includes a line that, before enacting the kd, checks "if length >= 3 kd else nokd"
 * Dhuum's always does nokd, but they overlooked that the kd script first checks for bonuses and only runs path x if not enhanced and path y instead if enhanced.
 * Although I am tempted to be optimistic about Anet and choose #1, the note seems to imply the also-plausible #2. This would of course mean that not even a 4-6 second kd would get through but a 2-second one, enhanced and therefore choosing path y, would get through. | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 23:23, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I just had a duo UW run, I was a W/A with dagger skills, and my friend was a mesmer with GDW. I put stonefist insignia on my helmet, hoped to KD Dhuum with GDW. However, I am pretty sure Dhuum wasn't KDed during the whole fight... Probably Anet has changed it... http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/foxofhat/gw026.jpg122.57.104.46 08:55, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Interrupts & Rez'ing
Having failed Dhuum last night, I'm still unclear on a couple of things.

1) Are Dhuum's skills interruptable?

2) The first time I died, I seemed to go straight to Spirit Form over by the Mayor, even though my DP was ok (or so I thought). I then reentered in Spirit Form. Could I then have been rez'd back to human form by someone else using a rez scroll? If I died while in Spirit Form, what would a rez scroll now do? Kirbett 15:32, 28 June 2010 (UTC) . --  Konig / talk 15:58, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure on the first, but for the second, when you're resurrected, it is as a spirit. There is no "rez'd back to human form"


 * The light is beginning to dawn ... have I got this right?


 * 1) If Curse of Dhumm is active, then if I am in human form, then if I die or my DP is already 60%, I automatically return (next to the mayor) in spirit form. What happens if I am already dead but not at 60% at the time the Curse is cast?


 * 2) If Curse of Dhuum is not active, then whatever form I am in, if I die, I stay dead until I am rez'd. Or if I am in spirit form and die, do I stay dead for good?


 * 3) BTW, while in spirit form, can I still use rez scrolls or DP removal cons? Kirbett 09:32, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I did UW alot of times and ill tell you, Dhuum's skills can be interrupted (rider can atleast). Curse of Dhuum gets active when you enter the room, when you die without having it you can be rezzed normally. when you die with having it, the first time you reach spirit form and the 2nd time your dead until dhuum is defeated or someone uses a rezzscroll. you can use cons and rezscrolls like normal in spirit form. 82.95.65.117 20:19, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

searing flames...
I went into uw the other day having never actually gotten to dhuum before using an SF build, at the time i had no idea he was immune to conditions. some odd things I noticed though. unlike the destroyers who are immune to burning it lets me cast SF on dhuum and even odder it did damage, not a lot.... around 30 ish if I recall correctly still it's very odd considering he is not burning, and SF shouldn't do anything to him.

Weird idea
Had this strange thought, but what if they gave Dhuum a skill to summon a copy of the active character last banscythed? Guildwarsrunner 04:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes.. consider Dhuum can remake random SS necros, or LC necros.. or SH eles.. Maybe banned IWAYS? Spawning computer-controlled playerbuild-using characters would make it.. difficult Demonic Fahrir talk 07:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)