Talk:Elder Dragon

Is it capitalised in the article? -- Gordon Ecker 05:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No it is not. The article says "Primordus was the first of the ancient dragons to awaken".. The article also refers to them as "true dragons" and "elder dragons". All a bit confusing, I think. Me55enger 06:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I just had a thought, perhaps the ancient dragons are the Great Giants last seen over some 9-10,000 years ago. The skeletons of what are presumably the Great Giants, don't look like your typical giant; they are, instead, far more serpent like. However, these things are huge, and would take real effort to kill. Which leads me to believe that perhaps there was a terrible calamity that killed so many, or perhaps, the east of Tyria is where they do to die? Russell Willis 14:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, according to The Movement of the World the ancient dragons predate the great giants. -- Gordon Ecker 02:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Russel might be onto something here. Although the Ancient Dragons predate the Giants doesn't mean there isn't a connection. The giants are very serpentine in looks and could possibly be lesser offspring of the Ancient Dragons.ShadowStep 15:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Dragon of the Northern Desert
Where is this dragon mentioned in The Movement of the World? the others are kind of obvious, but i have yet to see any mention whatsoever of a dragon in the crystal desert. From the article we know that Primordious is an Ancient Dragon, we know thaat a dragon rose and flew south towards ascalon (the one in the lake in charr territory most likely), we know of the ancient dragon of orr, we know of the deep sea dragon. Mentioned under the subheading of Norn, we know that "an elder dragon of ice and snow" that drove the norn south is most likely to be the "Drakkar" of Drakkar Lake. However, i do not see a single mention of a crystal desert dragon. Killer Revan 14:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Read the part about Joko, and not crossing the desert. However, this seems to be the Charr dragon. It's clearly not in Ascalon. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Backsword.

Just go to the 2nd paragraph of The Order of whispers. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.94.248.155.

Just had a thought...Glint's lair is in the northern Crystal Desert. But we know that Glint is very pro-human and would never turn on us without some kind of extremely powerful magical corruption. Sure, the most powerful thing we know to have been corrupted by some dark power was Kuunavang, also a dragon, but that took the power of the Jade Wind (not to mention extreme cases of cabin fever: trapped in a whirlpool of jade for hundreds of years? Even a dragon would go crazy) and she didn't particularly care about humans too much anyways. But we also know that Glint has a child. A baby dragon which is somewhere around 250 years old. I don't know how fast dragons age, but I'd guess that this would be somewhere around puberty, and ANet never told us about that baby, only that the Brotherhood of the Dragon sees it as their job to protect Glint, and apparantly, all her direct brethren. We don't even know if this baby dragon shares the "good-ness" of Glint. And if baby dragon's psyche is anything like that of humans, which would be just like ANet to have a jab at society one way or another, the average teenage mind would be very susceptable to peer-pressure (Ancient evil dragons trying to take over the world anyone?) and will occasionally have periods of hatred for their parent (aka Glint). Maybe the baby Dragon is the Dragon of the Norther Desert? The water dragon of the Charr Homelands is supposed to have some kind of corrupting breath, and it passed southward across Ascalon, maybe that had something to do with it? -- Marin  Bloodbane  20:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That would make it relatively feeble, surely Glint could put it in its place and a few humans can put Glint in her place if need be. I believe that the ancient dragons would not respect Glint or her child and sweep them aside if necessary. They are after all stated as being much older, larger and more powerful. The desert dragon is possibley the one from the Charr homelands since it flew south over ascalon and thats exactly where the desert is. This article currently states the desert dragon could be the Drakkar but i see nothing that implies this in the article. I would suggest the Drakkar is the ice dragon that has forced the norn further south whereas the water dragon/mountain dragon from Charr homelands could be the desert one. -Isabelle Voss
 * "Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon. The land directly below the path of the dragon’s flight was corrupted, becoming a crater of horror.". "Northern mountains" could refer to the Far Shiverpeaks, the "water dragon" hills in the Charr Homelands or the mountains north of the Charr homelands. The "Drakkar" is probably the "elder dragon of ice and snow", and I wouldn't consider the "water dragon"'s location to be mountains. IMO the "northern mountains dragon" is not the "water dragon" or "Drakkar", and the "desert dragon" is either the "water dragon" or the "northern mountains dragon". -- Gordon Ecker 03:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, u said we know of the ancient dragon of orr...maybe with 'Northern Desert', they actually mean the northern part of the crystal desert (wich used to be orr.) And btw, the baby of Glint isn't exactly what u can call ancient...And 1 last thing, I read somewhere that Glint is much younger then the ancient dragons, but the ghostly hero in amnoon oasis, says: 'glint is very old, even for a dragon.' doesn't that mean that Glint is an ancient dragon aswel, might be wrong, but i haven't read anywhere that ALL the ancient dragons are evil...

Dragon of Ice and Snow
I just found a statue-type-thing of a dragon wrapped around a giant ice crystal in the Ice Cliff Chasms. I have a screenie if anyone wants, but could this be the dragon of Ice Cliff Chasms/the Dragon of Ice and Snow? It could be a completely different entity from Drakkar, and do we really even know that Drakkar is in fact a dragon? All the other dragons we have been able to see are in some kind of statue form, but Drakkar is trapped beneath the ice of a frozen lake. And it is the only one of our supposed ancient dragons that actually has a name. -- Marin  Bloodbane  13:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Linsey's last comment here strongly suggests that Drakkar is indeed one of dragons that we'll meet on GW2. Chriskang 13:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And the special issue of PC Gamer confirms the "Drakkar" is a dragon. The Ice Cliff Chasms dragon seems a bit small though, about the same size as Kuunavang. -- Gordon Ecker 02:03, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

UW Dragon?
Found in UW... :) -- Grethort 13:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure thats just the Twin Serpent Mountains. The two serpents are supposed to be two brothers who tried to be Grenth or something, its all on the page. --- Raptors / RAAA!
 * Hmm, the page does say that they are serpent-like dragons, and that picture does look a lot like a dragon, so I'm thinking it's one of those Ancient dragons.. [[Image:User-brains12-scale-sig.png]] brains12 20:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Im pretty sure that all dragons are not beyond the mist...all of them that are mentioned are either A. Visible, or B. Come from areas obviously in the physical world. Also, any small statues of dragons are probably just that: Statues.  I am pretty sure that all dragons in the game have always been dragons, and are not transformed brothers that tried to challenge Grenth.  On the other hand, what could challenge grenth that was not as powerful as the gods, and what other than Ancient Dragons is as powerful as the gods...some interesting questions.  IMO, either these will not come up again, or they could (though i find this far less likely) be the oldest, and most powerful of the ancient dragons, having once seen fit to fight a god for his power, been defeated, and their defeat caused all dragons to slumber, age, and grow more and more powerful.Killer Revan 00:15, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the Reaper of the Twin Serpent Mountains, the two Underworld dragons transformed into dragons by Grenth. -- Gordon Ecker 00:48, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Dragons found in game
Is there a way for these to be related to Ancient Dragons: and some others that i don't remeber now... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:90.37.181.157.
 * Glint
 * Kuunavang
 * Rotscale (before it's death/reanimation)


 * Glint was created by the gods of Tyria, so she isn't directly related to them, but the gods could've based her design on them. Canonically, the relationship between the ancient dragons and modern dragons is unknown, however Glint and Kuunavang are explicitly stated to be far younger and weaker than them. -- Gordon Ecker 05:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Desert Dragon concept art
i was snooping around on the guild wars artist work, and found this

seems like an awesome idea for a desert dragon, look closely at the mountain formation and you can see it's wings. Why it has goats horns i don't know, all the more to make it look more satanic? incidently it's above the concept for Primordus so it might be linked. (Zyko Wolfven 20:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC))

what if, after years of sleep, it was built on by the humans, maby they added the horns to it, because they saw the "natural" beauty of the dragon, which they thought was a strangly shapped rock.71.61.80.119 05:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Or it could just be a scrapped Utopia concept. a l i c e &amp; s v e n 00:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I know it's a crappy pic (hey, I took it with a disposable camera when I was a teenager back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth), but the Black Dragon in Chrono Cross has similarly-shaped horns. Close-up pic.  Maybe it's just a type of horns for dragons...? I draw sometimes, and I have a reference book for dragons, and some of them also have similar curved horns.  Just my two cents.  --Dragon nataku 03:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Kainieng Dragon?
I just realised there is a dragon in the Sunjiang District.

Dragon

Could this be the Dragon of Corruption?Quetzal 09:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think so, there's also a turtle shell statue in the same zone, so I think the dragon head is just a shrine dedicated to Tahmu. -- Gordon Ecker 00:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Great Giants
Is it possible that the Ancient Dragons, as they are called, be Great Giants that walked on Tyria before the forgotten arrived? --M age M ontu 22:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they lived at the same time, and were different. Mango 23:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, according to The Movement of the World "The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory.". -- Gordon Ecker 04:17, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, oki then. Been too long since i read that article, so forgot about that part. --M age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]M ontu 16:38, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Undead dragon of Orr
There are 4 known dragons: water dragon, Primordus, ice dragon and the undead dragon of Orr. You can see 3 of them in-game:
 * Water dragon: in the charr homelands.
 * Ice dragon: in the far shiverpeaks.
 * Primordus: in a cave near the central transfer chamber

Only the undead dragon cannot be seen.

When i looked at the new eotn map of Tyria i had noticed a dark figure underwater in the center of the Orrian peninsula. That might only be the shading or a part of Orr that sunk, but who knows, maybe it's our undead dragon.--Soulforged 15:10, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I love being able to see dragons, it's so cool, but they don't half resemble collosi Zachariah Zuan 19:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Should we change the name of "Undead Dragon of Orr" to Zhaitan? Cause when you go to official site or watch trailer, they called the draon of orr Zhaitan. --Warnlord 13:28, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me... they get pretty detailed in the trailer abotu the dragons name, and its location and that it is the cause for the races to unite. MrPaladin talk 13:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the rocky island in the NE of the Tyria Map, in the large lake. Its northernmost point could be a dragon too. 1.152.43.100 02:47, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe you may be referring to Kralkatorrik, which is one of the elder dragons. G R E E N E R  02:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

key item
what about the deep-sea dragon?,its not mentioned in this artical but IS mentioned in the movement of the world-- Nei l2250  20:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Better question, why is this, an article which has nothing to do with Guild Wars 1 in essence aside from being able to see Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik (which doesn't need a fourth page), even on this wiki? -- Konig/ talk 21:24, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Elder Dragons can't be older than Glint
How can these dragons be older then Glint when its clearly stated in Prophecies that Glint is the oldest of the dragons? Ramei Arashi 23:35, 4 April 2010 (UTC) from Jeff Grubb in an interview with Kill Ten Rats. -- Konig / talk 02:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Gods put Glint here first... but the elder dragons pre-date the gods... therefore transitive logic sayz they are older then glint. 65.6.156.101 23:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Firstly, the Movement of the World states that the elder dragons are far different and older than Glint and Kuunavang. Secondly, "Much of what we know about Glint comes from Glint herself. The truth of the matter may be very different, and she has her own reasons for saying what she has said."

Sunjiang District, nr the Elementalist Construct
I just thought this looked similar to some of the other dragons. -- Chieftain  Alex 18:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just a statue, used multiple times over. It was put there before the idea of the Elder Dragons popped into the dev's heads (which occurred while making Utopia, if I remember what they said a long time ago correctly). -- Konig / talk 18:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Keeping Track in an Orderly Fashion
What's known about these guys? Anyone find concept art/whatever?

Per the Movement of the World:

"After Primordus, the other great dragons began to stir one by one. The rise of the dragon beneath Orr caused the entire continent to surface, sparking a tidal wave that swept the coastline and drowned thousands. In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land. Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon. The land directly below the path of the dragon’s flight was corrupted, becoming a crater of horror. The ground blackened from the dragon's presence and any creatures caught within the wind of its breath twisted and changed. "

I feel the wiki page might be better served if it included a simple table outlining the Elder Dragons and what's known about them, including pictures if able. Something like the following

I'm not suggesting a free-for-all conspiracy theory, but a simple "here's what we know as of now" with backed up fact/links... though it might help to include the things that keep coming up like the various factions statues as confirmed to NOT be dragons.--House Asmoadi 15:36, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
 * There are only five Elder Dragons. Jormag is the Elder Ice Dragon aka the dragon of ice and snow; Kralkatorrik is the Elder Crystal Dragon; Zhaitan is the Elder Undead Dragon - nothing oceanic about him; the "Ice Colum Dragon" is not an Elder Dragon, nor is the "Lightning Dragon" (the thing at the end of the Manifesto trailer has been said by Regina to not be an Elder Dragon - any elder dragon). Most of the info on these guys are on the GW2Wiki, as they should be. This is just about the three Elder Dragons seen in Eye of the North in their hibernating state - Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik. -- Konig / talk 18:13, 12 October 2010 (UTC)