Guild talk:Ascend Of Things/Archive 1

Good GRAVY this thing is painful to edit.
 * Excellent, since AUST is a horrid guild, run by house bound freaks, that no one in their right mind should join or stay in for any sensible period of time. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:119.11.37.36 (talk).
 * Unsigned. How very brave of you, internet tough guy. Really well done. - Bekkr 09:52, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The anonymity of the internet allows people to speak their mind without fear of reprisal. This is a good thing, not a bad one, and has nothing to do with bravery. However, since the door to criticism is now wide open, I'll list some very good reasons why people should stay away from AUST. 1: You claim to have 250+ players across 3 guilds, however the reality is, those three guilds have been stagnant for over two years, and most of your roster are grey names that don't log in much. The regular players you do have you could count on two hands. 2: AUST enforces some bizarre social rules such as 'you must say hello immediately when you log in, and you must respond to any hellos while you are logged in.' Also, 'if someone asks for help, you must help them or explain why you are busy.' Guess what, some people just like to log into guild wars and play with hero and hench and not deal with guilds all the time. 3: AUST has little to no PvP capacity at all, so PvP players should find something else. 4: You have a bizarre recruitment ritual that requires people to describe how they wipe their butt on the toilet, whether they fold or scrunch their toilet paper. This is *not* fiction, this line of questioning is supposedly to determine if the recruit has a sense of humour, but in reality is just plain crass. 5: People that aren't Fresa fanatics that do stay in the guild are mostly there because they are reluctant to look for another guild, despite the fact that almost every other guild out there is better at PvP/PvE, friendlier and have less silly rules about etiquitte. This is mostly because AUST actively seeks to recruit new players in pre, shing jea and kamadan, and such new players don't know any better. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:203.129.42.254 (talk).
 * Great stuff. You've managed to hit almost 50% accuracy with your information there.  A fact which, given the contextually sensitive nature of what you're trying to impart, tends to let rather a lot of air out of your credibility, such as it was to begin with.  That anonymity you're extolling the virtues of is a double edged sword.


 * Anyway, I'd respond to your specific points, but I think it's enough to say that you obviously have a very casual relationship with reality, at best, and it's unfortunate that you've managed to get this worked up about something so silly. I'm sure you mean well, but the execution needs a bit of work.  The least you could do is actually get your facts right.


 * Either way, this is the last you'll hear from me on the matter.... I'm clearly not going to convince you of anything, and anyone who would actually be swayed by the kind of rubbish you've spouted here (as opposed to having an actual chat with one of us), is probably not someone we'd want anyway. Happy gaming. - Bekkr 10:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just because you say something is (in)accurate doesn't make it so Bekkr. I don't need convincing of anything because I experienced all of the points I mentioned first hand. I'm not the only one, either, judging by the exodus of decent players leaving your pathetic excuse of a community. As far as trying to dent my 'credibility' with your substance-less rebuttal goes, merely saying my argument has no basis gives your case no credit unless you back it up with facts, something I laid before you in spades. Next, you insult my grip on reality, which is a personal attack, and in breach of the NPA policy of the wiki. Cheers for that. Next, the execution. Well, you're a great one to talk. You responded with insult and huffle-puff, and no substance to be seen. You also decline to actually argue any of the points I mention, which in my view gives them weight. If this discourse sweys just one person from joining AUST, and I hear about it, I'll consider this work a success. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:119.11.37.36 (talk).
 * Before you start throwing policy issues into this, first of all, I would like to remind you to sign your comments on talk pages. Also, your disparaging remarks and insults could also very easily be considered a breach of No Personal Attacks whether you consider them true or not is besides the point. I would also like to point out that the talk page is for discussion of the content of the article it's attached to, not for venting of personal disagreements. So, if you have an issue with the formatting, coding, or other potential policy/guideline violations within the CONTENT of the guild page, I suggest you take this to a forum somewhere, but the mudslinging here will stop. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 02:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess I'll bite...
Against my better judgement, some rebuttals:
 * The anonymity of the internet allows people to speak their mind without fear of reprisal. This is a good thing, not a bad one, and has nothing to do with bravery.

It actually has everything to do with bravery. I've bolded the important bits to make it easier for you to grasp the concept.

cow·ard·ice  /ˈkaʊərdɪs/ –noun lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc. antonym: bravery


 * 1: You claim to have 250+ players across 3 guilds, however the reality is, those three guilds have been stagnant for over two years, and most of your roster are grey names that don't log in much. The regular players you do have you could count on two hands.

On the main page it says ~250, not 250+ (protip- that little squiggly line means "approximately") The actual number is closer to 230 at the moment, but it's easier to approximate the number here, because it does fluctuate a bit. As to the grey names, does anyone actually advertise their guild's numbers omitting anyone that hasn't logged in for a few days? Also, there are currently people online in all three guilds, and more than 50 members that have been online in the last 24 hours. Your hands must look very odd indeed with 25 fingers each.


 * 2: AUST enforces some bizarre social rules such as 'you must say hello immediately when you log in, and you must respond to any hellos while you are logged in.' Also, 'if someone asks for help, you must help them or explain why you are busy.' Guess what, some people just like to log into guild wars and play with hero and hench and not deal with guilds all the time.

Those aren't actually part of the guild's rules at all. We do ask our members to try and do these things (think of them as guidelines for any socially impaired members - no points for guessing which category forum/talk page vandals fall into), but even if they were actually part of the rules, they're far from bizarre. Believe it or not, many people prefer to be part of a group that values politeness, and to surround themselves with nice people, rather than rude ones that cant even be bothered to say hello or respond when someone asks them a question directly. If you just want to log in and play with H&H, that's great, do that. But if that's the case, why would you want to join any guild, let alone one that advertises themselves as social, first and foremost?


 * 3: AUST has little to no PvP capacity at all, so PvP players should find something else.

And as such, we make sure to let all potential members know that we don't really PvP much, as a guild. I hardly see how this is even relevant.


 * 4: You have a bizarre recruitment ritual that requires people to describe how they wipe their butt on the toilet, whether they fold or scrunch their toilet paper. This is *not* fiction, this line of questioning is supposedly to determine if the recruit has a sense of humour, but in reality is just plain crass.

Asking a potential member "to describe how they wipe their butt on the toilet" is such a vast twisting of the truth that one has to wonder what kinds of mind-altering substances someone would have to be on to get that impression. It is interesting to note that you've made sure to state that you haven't made this up. I find the very worst liars are the ones that bookend their lies with cries of "I'm not lying! Honest!" In any case, the actual recruitment question (meant to gauge sense of humor, yes) is simply: "Scruncher or folder?", in reference to an admittedly odd, but certainly not crasstelevision commercial. Most people (those in possession of the aforementioned sense of humor, that is) actually do find it at the very least harmless, if not funny. Strange that you do not.


 * 5: People that aren't Fresa fanatics that do stay in the guild are mostly there because they are reluctant to look for another guild, despite the fact that almost every other guild out there is better at PvP/PvE, friendlier and have less silly rules about etiquitte. This is mostly because AUST actively seeks to recruit new players in pre, shing jea and kamadan, and such new players don't know any better.

The first half of this "point" of yours is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant a rebuttal. Obviously not every guild is going to suit every player, but your exaggeration of the general feelings of the majority of our members is laughable. It sounds an awful lot to me like someone is cranky because they didn't get invited to play with the cool kids at recess. It escapes me how you can consider your ramblings here as a worthwhile use of time if it's true what you say. Other guilds are so much better? Great, join one, and go about your business.

To address the second part, there has never even been a conversation about the level of game experience we should or should not require of new recruits, let alone a decision like this. Recruitment happens in those places because experience has shown us that it's simply easier and better to recruit in the more populated areas (though even without first hand experience, that seems an obvious conclusion). Once again you've managed to take a trivial fact (AUST primarily recruits in certain places), and twist it beyond all recognition to suit your loony-tunes argument. And no, that's no more a personal attack than my simple observation that your grip on reality is tenuous - a fact which I've pretty clearly outlined here. It's interesting to note that calling a group of people "house bound freaks" could, without question, be considered a personal attack. A very convenient oversight on your part.

Bekkr 02:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So much for the 'this is the last you'll hear from me on the matter', but I expect you thought the cost of going back on your statement was worth less than replying. Whatever. Anyone that joins your guild will discover for themselves what your guild is like, and since generally a person is smart, with more than a tenuous grip on reality, it's fair to let them make that call from here on out. Arivaderce. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:203.129.42.254 (talk).
 * Once again I will repeat my advice from above. First, SIGN your comments on talk pages with ~ . Secondly, this page is for commentary on the content of the guild page, not the venting of personal grievances. That belongs in an email or a forum somewhere. The mudslinging from BOTH of you could be considered a violation of No Personal Attacks and needs to stop. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 02:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wyn, I do apologize for allowing myself to be dragged, even partially, down to 203.129.42.254's level. My only excuse is that our guild does use this page occasionally for recruiting, and I felt it was a greater problem to let these mostly baseless accusations stand unanswered.  I have no problem with this page being purged completely, if that's an option, as it is so inappropriate and only tangentially related to the content of the actual guild page. - Bekkr 03:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll bet you do, but that would be censorship. Other talk pages have content that isn't specific to the article, and they aren't purged. Purging this page would be tantamount to censorship, which was voted down in other discussions. Just because something doesn't align with your world view isn't good enough to delete it, which our esteemed sysops know too well. 203.129.42.254 04:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You can feel free to archive the page yourself, and I do understand the wish to defend your guild. Just remember the purpose of this talk page. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 03:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

As a new memebr of the Aust alliance(less than a month) I am suprised by inaccuracy of these comments. When I was recruited I had already been plaing for over a two years. I was in a guild which died and it made sense to join a guild from my own region of the world. I was asked some basic getting to know you questions none of which had anything t do with my toileting habbits....

This guild is the most helpful I have been a member of in any game. I think it would fair to say that the original post is some where less than 20% accurate.

Haxial 22:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, I forgot I had an account on this. Ok, well - This is just the musings of a character who doesn't feel like he is getting enough air time, and this is surprising, as I really thought this person is question had a lot going for him.  This slander which has been written is largely untrue, especially the "group who get along with Fresa".  We all have our share of differences and arguements.  what binds us is our love for the game.  Yep, the game...which we play.  It's sad to see anyone who comes into the guild leave, but what can you do?  As for me, I'm going to do exactly what I can to make AUST one of the finest guilds.  Not really sure where I am going with this...I guess I'll just finish by saying that I am disappointed that someone I came to regard as a good guy would sink so low... Carnival King 01:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know you, please don't presume to know me. I'm also continually amused by the assumption that I'm a guy. You haven't bothered to consider you lot alienated any girls? 203.129.42.254 03:27, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I would suggest you archive this page before this goes any farther, I really hate repeating myself.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 02:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That was some of the most non sequitur rubbish I have ever read. 203.129.42.254 12:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)