Talk:Slippery Ground

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

 * Slippery Ground: 15e 1c 10r -> 5e 1c 20r
 * Please discuss skill change here. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 5e and 1c are fine but 20sec recharge makes this quite obsolete. Bring the recharge back down to 10sec and have it cause exhaustion. Miss Velvetine 01:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No need for exhaustion, we have enough KD exhaustion skills. What I don't like about this skill is the condition.
 * And then we would use this instead of gale, why? --Symbol 02:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * i just dont see why you would need to KD a warrior who is blinded in the first place? It seems like overkill to me. The name splippery Ground suggests an effect different to the one it has currently. I would have imagined this skill to operate along the lines of Churning Earth ie... it causes anyone moving faster than normal to be knocked down. How about all foes moving 33% faster or more near this location are knocked down for 2 seconds. Much more useful imo.87.194.81.41 01:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

I thought this skill was fine the way it was before. With a 20sec recharge it's no longer worth a slot. I'd much rather have a high energy skill with a faster recharge than a cheap skill with a long one.Fei To 17:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I'd make the condition "if target foe is under the effects of a water hex" or maybe something like "if target foe is moving or attacking." For a 20s recharge I think it could do with a more practical condition. I'm not sure if I'm making it overpowered or not, I don't think so but I haven't done enough GvG to really know... skaspaakssa 03:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 10/1/12 with crippling as an extra condition would be excellent. You could introduce weakness too, but that would need probably a tweak back to 15/1/10 to prevent cross-profession abuse.--Skye Marin 03:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm still not sure what this skill is trying to accomplish. When a foe is blinded, that foe is often a melee foe and that foe is virtually useless while blinded. Why do you want to KD a useless foe? The skill is OBVIOUSLY set up to be used in conjunction with Bsurge but the only time you'd potentially use blind on a non-melee profession is when spiking (Bsurge has a nice cast time to follow up Lightning Orb). You can't KD a dead foe anyways. Seems like a limiting skill. Gale is a just a superior on demand KD. Who doesn't want that? Living Parasite 07:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Quite bad imo. Now it has a sucky, unreliable condition to do anything at all, and on top of that it's on high recharge. I'd really rather see a rework. There's a couple of good suggestions on the page already. A kd that you have to go through a fairly hard hoop to do on a 20s recharge makes no sense when you can just use Gale, especially on an Ele that doesn't care so much about exhaustion (at least not if you only cause it every 20s!). Patccmoi 07:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To be honest...I would cut the recharge down to 12 and you would have a better skill. Gale is 5 seconds rechage and costs more energy and uses exhaustion while this would need 7 more seconds recharge, cost less, but need blind. Sounds pretty fair to me. 20 seconds is too much though. --Dragonious 07:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually I think that it is quite a positive change, so long as you view the skill as being an investment free addition to any Blinding skill bar - then it is effortless and has excellent synergy with Brambles, Awe and many Warrior attacks. I mean we are talking about an E5 skill that requires no attribute points here ; it is not a skill to build a bar around, just one that can be worth making space for.
 * Belly Smash xD
 * Don't forget Ash Blast, the opposite of this skill. I guess the idea is to use a combo like Glyph of Immolation->Steam->Slippery Ground. Just seems kinda sketch when an Immolate+Gale would about do the same thing.--Skye Marin 21:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To above: Exhaustion, required air spec.
 * Personally I think it could be a little better, you just need to find the balance between energy cost and recharge. Are you adamant on the blind condition?  [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]] 22:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with one of the posters above, make this a pre-nerf Gale for foes under speed boosts >> 3sec KD Miss Velvetine 00:32, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I personally feel that this skill is still underpowered even after the change. I will not waste 3 skill slots just to blind a foe and knock them down every 20 seconds. The only way I would even condition using this skill is if the recharge is reduced to decent level. I think this skill should deal damage in par with Clumsiness. I recommend 10e 1c 12r and cause 10...76 damage when knocked down this way.--Shadetz X 06:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm, this skill can be slotted onto an air ele's skillbar fo a cheap non-exhausting gale, since hey're probably going to be a blindbot anyway. I'd suggest ading in a failure chance so people will find water eles using this, rather than ebon dust Dervishes. --Ckal Ktak 15:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Blinding Flash or Blinding Surge + Slippery Ground looks to be a good way to get a melee attacker off you and get the hell out of Dodge - or even as a semi-interrupt skill. Maybe throw in Glyph of Swiftness to deal with recharge. It may fail as a general use skill, but I think there's more than enough room to apply it for specialty or situation-dependent builds. Definitely something I's want to try out. The only minor criticism might be that it has no real link to its attribute, as it can effectively function with 0 Water Magic. Clan Yumemiru 22:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure what to make of this skill. It can certainly replace gale in bsurge bars, but exhaustion really isn't much of an issue in that bar either. The recharge is horrible, and if you're casting gale every 20+ seconds you shouldn't have exhaustion issues either (the only time you really run into problems is when you're gale-locking an enemy flagger). As it is now, I don't see why people would use it. Change to 15e 3/4s 8s or something. Holymasamune 20:44, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Put damage on this and reduce recharge to 15 and you got a winner (10/1/10 would be ideal 'cause I see where you are going with this Izzy). You know, get hit by something (cold wind), can't see to maintain balance--Spell. 5/1/15 Target foe is struck for X cold damage. If target foe is Blind, that foe is knocked down. Phoenix Locklear 18:52, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Forced synergy with glyph of immolation and steam... too complicated. 58.110.141.16 08:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Not Impressed
Seems like a lot of energy to maybe knock one person down -Kumdori 23:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah but blind is an easy condition to match, and with Glyph of Lesser Energy, and Water Attun the cost isn't too high. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I find the name not fitting, really. But that's not the point either. I think with just Water Attunement, this skill wont be terrible.. just not that terribly good.
 * It's important to realize that it doesn't scale with points in water magic. Thus one can run dual attunements (max air and energy storage) with blinding flash + this instead of good ol' gale.
 * Making the Blind-Bot even more powerfull =/ i guess we'll have to see how this one works out. I'm seeing it becoming meta midline already. Glad the cast time isnt too fast tho. Still, it will make blind a much stronger condition, even on non-mellee characters. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 01:42, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yah, a Sub Zero ability. lol --Redfeather 04:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

If the target is blind, why would you need to knock him down? casters? not really eles job 88.169.112.155 10:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well "blind-bots" carry gale incase theyre needed for a spike, casting b-surge followed by this = a non-exhaustive KD, but the blind on the target, if non-melee, kinda gives away the spike. Quazark Zeklar  [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 10:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Although the ele doesnt usually KD the spiked target so it wouldnt give too much away. He'll HD the infuser while the spike happens making him useless to stop it. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 10:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Combine it with Aftershock or a similar skill? An example combo would be Mark of Rodgort, Earthen Shackles (one where they move slower while on fire), steam, Slippery Ground then Aftershock?-- §  Eloc   §  10:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That is way too convoluted. Look how many hoops you have to jump through just to get a Knock to use Aftershock. Still, this should be good for Air spikers and possibly earth ele's if they don't mind jumping through the Ash Blast hoops. Or essentially players afraid of exhaustion. Fro 11:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The skill is listed as Water, but has no scaling or minimum req. Why aren't skills like these listed as No Attribute skills?
 * Water Attunement, Elemental Attunement, Staff and Wand/ Focus Upgrades.--Renegade 17:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Everything Renegade said and more, like Power Block. Not to mention just the fact it uses Water Magic to create the slippery ground it would be nonsensical to not put in Water Magic. Capcom 18:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The Energy Cost is way to mush for a KD that conditional. Gale is less and it requires no conditions but it casue exhaustion. Still, with this not being in air magic, meaning youll ahev to run daul attns or theres no ways ur gona be able to spam it effectivly, and with it requiring blind, you could realy reduce the cost to 5 or 10, making ti so you dont have to run Water Attn. and as long as the recharge stayed the same, you wouldnt have that much trouble with people spaming it.

Too situational. Blind is a very hard to condition to meet with anything other than B-Surge. And anyways, do you WANT to waste 15 energy on an already blinded warrior?
 * Fro, the skills inbetween do damage and you get the Prismatic Insignia.-- §  Eloc   §  05:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I think this thing needs some added damage or a movement slow after it. Something to scale with ranks in Water Magic. Or atleast add in a 50% chance failure with Water magic 4 or less.
 * Yeah, as if anyone but elementalists is going to abuse a skill with 15 energy. --Ufelder 09:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Water Magic just gets no love. I read all Water Magic skills so far, and this one is probably the worst. All other classes get skills that are so horribly good that I already see the nerfbat coming, while these are in dire need of a buff. --Longasc 11:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Ide say switch the requirement to water hexes and ya maybe add some sort of damage after all.. the guy is hitting slippery FROZEN ground..Hector Mata ZoS

An odd little skill, but for 15 Energy I cannot see why I would ever want to use. My vision of it is a bit too strange to ever be implemented I suspect, but here goes... || Hex Spell. For x seconds, the next time target foe moves while Blind, that foe is knocked down. || Something along those lines might add a tactical element and presumably bring the cost right down.
 * Use it with Steam! No really. Putting burning on a guy to put blind on a guy to knock down a guy doesn't seem clunky at all!Pluto 00:16, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And use Elemental Flame to cause the burning for Steam! I'm sensing a meta build in the works.  [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]] 00:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Or Glyph of Immolation? If burning is applied before the spell's effects, then all you need to do is cast Steam and this before blind runs out. --Heelz 00:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Very entertaining. : ) I guess that my 2 problems with this boil down to a) knockdown on a Blind fighter = inefficient & Blinding a caster to knock them down = inefficient b) lack of 'twitchplay' in utilising an expensive 2 stage knockdown when Gale does it in 1 for less Energy and without a tell ( when people start using Blinding Flash on your caster it is pretty obvious what their intent is ).

Too much energy for a conditional knock down + kinda hard to meet condition? No thanks, I don't see dedicating half of my bar to make this skill work.


 * I guess if you have a melee using Ebon Dust Aura or something you can combo it, or MAYBE a BSurge Ele at your side. It's obviously a big failure if you try to make it all fit on the same bar. Patccmoi 16:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll stick to gale. - Skakid9090 20:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Knockdown is used for three different elements: Snare, Interrupt, and Disable. Skills like Bull's Strike and Icy Trident are definitely more under the snare category because moving foes can't use skills at the same time. Gale, on the other hand, is a flat knockdown at the cost of some exhaustion, and is really one of the most versatile skills because of that. Here is what I'm thinking in regards to this skill. We're looking for a water skill that causes knockdown, but doesn't cause exhaustion because of a pre-existing condition. That condition should probably be already covered by one of the three elements of knockdown, but shouldn't be more powerful than an elite. 10/1/10 Target foe loses their stance. If target foe is suffering from weakness, cripple, or blind, they are knocked down.--Skye Marin 04:19, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Complete Revamp: What Water Magic Needs In Comparison to Current Stable of Skills
Water magic is full of many skills which have a pre-req of needing a water magic hex. Most Water Magic Hexes are very unwieldy, making the pre-reqs for those skills difficult to obtain and makes those skills weaker. We need a fast cast moderate recharge and somewhat cheap (5-10 energy) hex which can be used to fuel these skills. Slippery Ground could be this skill. The effect of course would need to be something that by itself is nothing too dangerous or abusive, but could increase in utility or efficiency with the use of other water magic skills. I am a loss right now of what the hex could do but I hopefully have made my point. The Ele stable does not need another knockdown skill, Gale and Shock work just fine. Water magic needs a good efficient hex, one that possibly increase in effect with multiple water hexes or that has an effect each time the foe is struck with a water spell. --142.167.14.79 17:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see the skill changed to this:
 * 15/1/15 "Hex Spell. Target foe and all nearby foes are Hexed with Slippery Ground. For 5...17...20 seconds, whenever each foe is struck for cold damage while moving, that foe is knocked down."
 * It'd actually be somewhat useful then. :) Capcom 17:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "We need a fast cast moderate recharge and somewhat cheap (5-10 energy) hex which can be used to fuel these skills." - um, Freezing Gust? [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 22:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea, but somthing about conjure wars pounding on a target that cant kite them seems alil IMBA. Look at thunderclap, the KD is AoE and they dont ahev to be moving, but it has a HUGE nrg loss to it, and its an elite, somthing like what u just sugested would blow it out of the water. Maybe a better idea somthing like, 10/1/10 If target foe is under the effects of another water magic hex target foe is Knocked Down. If not Target Foe is Hexed with Slippery Ground for 1....3...6 seconds and moves 66% slower. Its kinda similar to Frezing Gust, but u cant keep it up indefinatly. Not sure on how the spell would scale though. (ps i knw the wording rough, its like 2 am and i had the idea) 69.135.196.107 20:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. It seems to me most water skills are hexes and thus fuel each other. If you need a cheap spamable hex, take one from a necro secondary, as many other builds do. I agree this skill is too expensive and conditional to find a place on my water ele bar but this work very well on ebon dervs since it requires no water attribute investment. I think the cool down just needs to be lowered a bit and you have a pretty good skill. Fei To 17:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How would a Necro hex help when they require a Water Magic hex? Capcom 15:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I really like the idea of the revamp. Which is probably because it's over-powered. If you want to create another caster non-elite knockdown skill, look at Gale for balance. The water hex condition is not really conditional on a water hexer. That's why Izzy originally put the blind condition on it which is still possible for a water guy but you need to jump through more hoops. Bringing us to where we are now; a situation where Gale is still the better option (exhaustion is fine! ^_^). All this also brings us to the question of whether or not we need another conditional knockdown ele skill when we already have Gale and Water Trident and other lesser skills. No. No we don't. This skill would be better reworked as something else.

Heres a sample idea: Slippery Ground ---> Frozen Eyes

15/1/15. Hex spell. For 1..3..5 seconds, target foes next 0..2..3 attack skills miss. If target foe is already under the effects of a hex, that foe moves 66% slower for 2..6..8 seconds instead.

In a similar theme to Freezing Gust's duality but for spikes. Water eles are great for slowing up melee, but theres usually more than one to deal with. Slow one down, shut down the spike of another for 5 seconds. Complete 'miss' might be too strong but it's on for only 5 seconds with triple the recharge and costs quite a bit. Plus you can't abuse it in a hex heavy build since all you get is a 15 energy slow hex. Fro 22:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Needs to be a 50% miss, 100% miss is to strong, also should be if under the effects of a water magic hex not jsut hex.


 * How about this? 15/1/8, for 1..5..6 seconds target foe is hexed with Slippery Ground and moves 66% slower. If target foe is hit by cold damage while moving, that foe is knocked down and Slippery Ground ends.


 * Would be an alternative to Freezing Gust, with slightly higher ecost and recharge, but the potential to knock target foe if they get hit while moving. Seems like a hex that could have good potential without being really stronger than what's already there Patccmoi 15:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

How about the skill actually do what it supposed to do: 15 en, 1s cast time, 30s recharge. "Ward spell: for 10..22 seconds, any foe in this location are standing on slippery ground. Any foe in this ward, who suffers a speed buff or a snare slips off the ice, and is knocked down for 2 seconds."
 * This also works well with other water skills for a fare amount of time. Who's going to use a kd on a single target only once? I don't see the use of having a skill you can't use more than once (on a single target no less) in every confrontation with an enemy group.

Proposed Skill Change
Slippery Ground. Target foe takes 20..68 damage. If target foe is not currently under the effects of a water magic hex, that foe is knocked down for 2 seconds. 10/1/20

Purpose of the skill is to be used as an on-demand KD that is best used when speccing in multiple attributes. It is helpful in balanced spikes but has a recharge of twenty to scale back it's effects when used as pressure (such as Knocking Down a foe casting Aegis or Hard Rezzing) but still make it a viable skill in many water builds.

The reason why this skill is much better over the current one is because the current version of the skill lacks versatility and is highly conditional, this proposed version is much more flexible and has defined roles. Living Parasite 22:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you remember the Gale warrior days? I think your suggestion is a bit too strong. Fro 20:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * So wait, you're saying to make it a skill that sucks when you actually use it with the attribute? How about a monk enchantment: "If you heal someone you lose all your energy"? If anything, this skill should knock down foes under the effects of a water hex. --68.106.223.233 09:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but that might make it too good. Then, as previously mentioned, Slippery Ground warriors would dominate in GvG, HA, and TA.  Just have a snarer on your team.  And the most imba thing about it all would be that they could still have shock on their bar, so 2 short recharge easily used knockdowns. ---  Ressmonkey (talk)  01:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Mis-information
The skill says 50% chance of failure with Water Magic 4 or less, but in-game it has failed for me having 5 or less. Someone want to change it or make a note of it? I'm not sure how. --70.69.104.157 03:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * it should work at 5 spec. If it fails it will say "Skill failed: Water Magic 4 or less" if it just didn't work, that might be because the enemy removed blind before you cast it or they are one of the pve enemies that you can't KD. 75.61.32.166 03:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it said "Skill failed : Water Magic >5" or something like that. --70.69.104.157 03:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Proof --70.69.104.157 04:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 5<5 is not true, therefore the skill will successfully activate. --8765 06:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, in that "proof" your Water Magic is 4. 4 < 5 and the skill could fail. It says 4 or less, or less than 5. They're actually the same thing, just worded different. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  21:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I like how their character's name is Obvious T R O L L. -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  21:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)