Talk:Winds of Change/A2

So when's it going to kick off?
I don't suppose anyone knows when they plan on adding the content for this. I can't remember where I saw it but I thought it was going to be after they finished with the Dervish changes. Titan Crow 19:54, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The last time the order was stated it was "Dervish changes->Embark Beach->WoC" so it's supposedly next. When it'll be released is unknown, same with if the order's been changed or not. -- Konig / talk 20:32, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Most likly on the 6th Anniversary. 77.102.52.40 Sounds to me like two separate things. My bet is that WoC will start with the Dragon Festival. -- Konig / talk 00:35, 14 April 2011 (UTC) If not Winds of Changee, then what is the live team head talking about? Either way, sounds like new content. -- Konig / talk 01:45, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Based on a comment by Stumme, it seems to be coming after the anniversary. For those too lazy to look at the link (or if the discussion of said link gets archived): "Things have just been super busy as we're getting ready for the anniversary and continuing to work on Winds of Change."
 * To be honest I would rather this to come out after Guild Wars 2 is released to bring some old players back to know more of the backstory of Cantha and Tyria before the Dragons blocked acsess. - 74.171.163.219 00:24, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * no thanks maybe you are one of the few players that haven't done everything but for those of us who have done everything its like a fat kid waiting for cake....-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 01:54, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There's more content planned for Beyond after the Winds of Change. GW2 is likely over a year off from now, so I'd rather have WoC before GW2. -- Konig / talk 02:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "no thanks maybe you are one of the few players that haven't done everything". There seems to be a LOT of players who've not done everything. I would love (out of pure curiosity) to know how many GWAMM there are and what percentage of the player base that is. Actually, just for a bit of fun I do look at random players in town and stick their name in the HoM calculator to peek at their achievements... it's very interesting! xD TBH I expect a lot of the wiki community here will be among the hardcore group of high achievers, but lets not get fooled into thinking we represent the average player - not to mention all the new players I see getting lost in Embark Beach *every day*. People joke about the newbies getting lost in there (if I had 1k etc... ), but I think that goes to show how many new people are still picking up the game for the first time. I.e, just as I've passed 6 years of playing (as I'm sure many of you have), many others are just passing 6 hours! Incidentally, in my 6 years I've been happy to settle for not doing quite a bit... I just did the stuff I wanted to do, and left the rest alone :) Cirian 16:13, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * For me i hope it will kick off soon to keep the game exciting. There are people who do nothing but still complain but there are also people like me who have done almost everything and want something new. Damysticreaper 17:02, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "Some exciting things happening in June..."
 * Still Waiting for these exciting things to happen. lol.. 69.242.196.134 21:28, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * well there was the huge pvp update...-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 21:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The 30th of June is still June. ^^  69.121.219.6 16:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The exciting things for june were the PvP updates (wich wasn't all that exciting since it's only PvP afterall), but it would be nice if it would kick off at the 30th but i highly doubt it. Damysticreaper 16:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

please no more sewers
I hope Winds of Change does NOT involve going through any sewers. My rit is tired of burning his clothes (lol). Ramei Arashi 06:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Try burning Vabbian for a necro, its hard to get behind all those gems. 50.40.251.126 10:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Add this?
I think there has to be some information we can add to this pace for this bit of info, but I'm afraid of doing any editing so I don't do it wrong. The following information was posted under John Stumme's Page. Alcyone 21:20, 25 April 2011 (UTC) "I would like to stress that when the content drops, it will be a pretty significant drop - not just a quest or a scene. WoC as a whole is getting close to a small expansion's worth of new story, and it's something we'll continue to add to over the year. John Stumme 17:52, 21 April 2011 (UTC)"
 * done.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 01:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

OK, let's go..!
x.x is the update gonna happen before or after the end of the world?
 * Obviously afterward, since we are now post-rapture. 76.164.71.104 00:58, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * lol nice (Usaf1a8xx 00:31, 10 June 2011 (UTC))

Incoming?
Envoy weapons and Emotes, Imperial faction, Faction missions have been changed, I'm thinking with all the new stuff added in that this is coming soon. Point being, if you're reading this, keep an eye out for information regarding it. -- Briar    The Spider  06:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC) ; (big day being his wedding). We have an approx date, that is, prior to 7/9/11.  Konig / talk 22:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's definitely a sign they're rolling out some (much needed) content and fixes for Cantha before they flood the useless continent with content, but what missions have changed as of yet? ~Farlo Talk 06:35, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * JQ and FA -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  06:44, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I thought you meant some of the PvE missions changed or something. It's good to see a big reform in PvP though, especially after they ruined the titles. ~Farlo Talk 06:45, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Launch it today please QQ, it's thursday. 92.228.83.169 11:38, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have a feeling they're going to launch it to coincide with the Dragon Festival. If that's the case, we have a couple of more weeks to go. --69.76.197.244 17:14, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * As muc as it sucks, you're probably right. I want more content! :( ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 17:19, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If they do, I do hope that they don't force anything to be DF-specific, so that people can get the full amount of content later. Maybe doing something other than/along with the silly actors which isn't necessary to understand the beginning of WoC and returns following years...  Konig / talk 17:20, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I wasn't really believing that they'd launch it today due to releasing the Quaggan stuff. So we are fed with new stuff for this week. Is DF in june or later? If it is after june I wonder if the "exciting things" in the random thought box were only the the pvp changes....would be lame. 92.228.83.169 18:19, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Dragon Festival is usually the first week(end) of july (to coincide with the 4th) i believe. My guess is that it will start July 1st (Friday) and end on July 4th (Monday).--TahiriVeila 18:25, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * 13 days since the last update.... Need......WoC!!! >.< -- Magamdy 09:35, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * ^ ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 20:58, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * "people should see Winds of Change before I leave for vacation."
 * Nice find, let's see if it's true :D ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 01:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol, I know it's not (because all of that is publicly released information), but using the dates the game designer is getting married on and going on vacation for to determine game updates is really creepy and stalker-ish D: 90.206.126.224 16:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It would be creepy and stalkerish if people were tracking down the info from obscure sources. However: Stumme loves giving hints, he loves sharing certain types of personal information (esp. concerning his upcoming nuptials and: vacation!), and he loves to watch us scurry like ants as we try to figure out what he means whenever he says, 42. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:02, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Number of quests
I've added a note about quests' number from GW twitter. Shan 09:26, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * No doubt that it took so long:O 42 quests xd omg Cronosperetheholy 12:15, 15 June 2011 (GMT+1)


 * Just when I thought I was out... they drag me back IN! -- Hong 11:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * They said that the fans attending the event could see and use a preview of Winds of Change, is there any new info about this? Lokheit 12:00, 25 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Everyone who attended and might have interest in sharing the GW info seem to have taken the weekend off. Darcy 15:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What event? --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 17:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The fan-day thing on Friday, when certain people were allowed to tour Anet HQ and learn about WoC and GW2. Only info we got about WoC from that is the number of quests and that it's going to be released in 3 parts.  Konig / talk 19:39, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Pic of what I think is a member of the ministry of purity? O.O Lokheit 22:57, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just a figment of your imagination! [[Image:User Anvil_God_AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvi God  zzz...  23:01, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Since it's 42 quests "including Hard Mode quests", does it mean there are actually 21 quests and their HM counterparts ? 213.166.192.173 07:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No a HM quest is a quest which is only do-able in HM and thus not NM thus there can't be a counterpart. --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons  07:48, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * HM quests, by definition (see Quest) are duplicates of normal quests. Cynique 07:58, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't forget to consider that maybe not every single WoC quest will have a Hard Mode counterpart so the numbers could be uneven. 69.121.219.6 16:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Vanquishing
With notes about area spawns changing, I hope this causes no problems with vanquishing like War In Kryta did. Talhmark seems to have pre-wik, wik and post-wik which causes several issues, and an odd anomaly to the vanquishing map (also problems for when Nicholas appeared). Hopefully they manage to do some tidy programming done this time. Still, can't wait for this =D --Smithy-Star 15:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The only issue in WiK was Talmark which was due to a new map being used - there's only pre-WiK and WiK, btw. So long as they don't alter the maps, there won't be this issue. And considering we've seen this issue before and it was fixed, I think they'll take measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.  Konig / talk 16:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Money?
Where are they getting it to do all this? My GF and I have been debating it for a few days... they get most of their money from actual game sales, probably; maybe a little from the new micro-transactions... but how do they keep making the money to constantly add content and keep the game running as well as they do? Anet and GW do an incredible job keeping things going and staying on top of the ball, but I just don't see how they get the revenue for it. All in favor of Anet telling us where they're farming IRL ectos, sign here. -signed 67.182.25.254 06:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sadly, they've been a lot slower in the GW1 department since most of the Dev team headed to GW2, but Guild Wars is still very profitable. According to NCSoft's Earnings Reports, Guild Wars sales (not 100% sure this includes micro transactions, but it must) took in ~2,306,000,000 KRW (Korean Currency) in Q1 of 2011, which equates to ~ $2,200,000 in January-March of this year alone.  The numbers only get higher as you back further too.  Even I was somewhat shocked to see that Guild Wars is still making this much (unless I read something wrong), and I assume this is what fuels a good bit of the GW2 development as well as the smaller Live Team projects for GW1. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 08:20, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to state that a recent Kill Ten Rats article by Ravious, which was about the Fan-Day visit, stated that the Live Team, despite being a skeleton crew, is making stuff that would normally require both more manpower and a bigger budget. So the newer content is coming out at good quality with lesser-than-normal cost.  Konig / talk 18:55, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This is true. Although I think EB wasn't very well implemented, the Beyond content has had a decent amount of stuff coming from such a small team, and hopefully WoC will be pretty massive. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 19:06, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Investors. Duh. Thought I was on GW2W. O.O -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  20:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm definitely with Konig and KTR that the few people left behind are doing a full team's work brilliantly. Shocked at Farlo's info, but it does explain a lot; I've definitely contributed my little bit to em with a few full accounts and some micro-transactions, but the thought that they're still raking in that kind of profit is astounding. Definitely says something about the quality of the game. 67.182.25.254 05:58, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Seriously, although I'm sure the build up for GW2 and the last year of pretty consistent updates has fueled a lot of the new growth. Either way, please A-Net, keep doing what you do! ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 05:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

lore background?
that sounds like the intro from eotn... - Zesbeer 09:27, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's because it is. Someone decided to try to copy War in Kryta but failed, as the background for WoC isn't the EN manual.  Konig / talk 09:32, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't know about that...we know, for example, that Winds of Change involves cleaning up the last Afflicted from the Kill Ten Rats preview, and we know from the Guildmag screenshot that it involves the Jade Sea melting. The only stuff in the GW:EN manual that we don't know to be directly relevant is the stuff about the earthquakes, and we can say that's probably not relevant at all.
 * Regarding italics, has the matter of italics in Beyond updates ever been discussed properly (context here)? Beyond is not a product either, but a series of updates. I would say we should look at MOS:ITALIC in the absence of any guidance here. --Santax (talk · contribs) 13:06, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Beyond is closer to on par to expansions/campaigns, just free, especially compared to the chapters. However, discussion is more or less going on Guild Wars Wiki talk:Community portal‎, which is mainly focused on how to document Beyond content rather than what exactly Beyond should be considered.  Konig / talk 18:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm still against using the EN manual as background lore for the chapter. As you said, it will deal with Afflicted, but WoC will be dealing with more as well. Based on what we know, only the first paragraph is relevant to our knowledge. Claiming the rest is relevant is speculation.  Konig / talk 18:29, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * agreed with konig i am also against the pic of the jade sea we dont have any solid info nor is that a pic actually reflecting woc.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 19:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

That is the sole mention of melting Jade Sea, and if you actually read it, the comment states 1) that the Jade Sea was melting during Factions (speculation) and 2) that she doesn't know if we'll see Jade Sea melting. So nothing states that the Winds of Change will even touch the Jade Sea or Echovald, and if it does, that it'll feature them de-petrifying.
 * We know the second paragraph is relevant from the GuildMag interview; the screenshot (why do you keep removing that by the way?) depicts a melting Jade Sea. The third paragraph is pretty much a description of the current state of Cantha, which is going to be relevant as the update takes place within that setting, and although the fourth paragraph is more or less totally irrelevant, I don't think we should be partially quoting the manuscripts, I'd be more comfortable paraphrasing it. --Santax (talk · contribs) 20:07, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * For the screenshot: Nothing in game shows the melting of the Jade Sea. At least, nothing proven for such. That could be the result of rainwater piling on top of the jade. Also, if you actually read that, Izari never stated that Winds of Change features the Jade Sea melting. That screenshot is literally from Factions, and it's commentary based on speculation that the pools of water is the Jade Sea melting and not just rainwater (or melted snow water from the nearby mountains) - "Will we see more Jade Sea melting in Winds? Hopefully!"
 * Regarding the third paragraph, again, that is the general state of Cantha, but Winds of Change isn't necessarily going to deal with the "general state" - we don't know what it deals with outside of "Ministry of Purity", "cleaning out the Afflicted", and "plight of the Tengu" with an implication of Miku being somewhere in the mess. We know nothing else, so honestly saying that this deals with the plot of Winds of Change rather than what it does - the general situation of Cantha as a whole - is incorrect. I find it unlikely that Winds of Change will deal with everything of Cantha. Just as Wik?HotN combo doesn't even touch half of Tyria.  Konig / talk 21:40, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Nothing in-game shows the melting of the Jade Sea yet. That's the point, Beyond takes place after Factions. I think given what we know about the melting of the Jade Sea from the GW:EN manual, nobody seriously believes that it might be rainwater in that screenshot - that's far more of a stretch than saying that it's melted Jade. We know that some of Winds of Change takes place within Kaineng City, but I don't see any reason why the whole thing would. We know that Shing Jea Island at least is also involved, because WoC involves Tengu, whose population in the City is low. Each (large) Beyond chapter takes at least 6 months to develop properly, and we still need to get the Ebon Vanguard's return to Ascalon and (possibly) Palawa Joko's chapter out of the way before GW2. I honestly doubt that there will be more than one Beyond chapter set in Cantha (the whole point of Beyond is to bridge to GW2, and GW2 isn't even set in Cantha). Winds of Change is Cantha's swan song.
 * It is not true to say that we know nothing about Winds of Change - we know that it is going to foreshadow (at the very least) Usoku's rise, his defeat of the Kurzicks and Luxons, and the displacement of the Tengu (and other non-humans). But I think we are getting distracted here. My point is, WoC takes place in Cantha after the defeat of Shiro Tagachi. Most of what we currently know about post-Shiro Cantha comes from the Eye of the North manuscripts, and so I can't think of a more appropriate place for them to be quoted than on this page. --Santax (talk · contribs) 08:46, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * i still think that its not appropriate to have on this page i think we will see woc soonish so lets just wait untill then and add the info that reflects what is going on in the game instead of putting info that we are trying to make fit here. no one said that we knew nothing we just said that we did not know enough to justify putting that information on the page.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:53, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

"nobody seriously believes that it might be rainwater in that screenshot" But the screenshot is from Factions! There are pools of water in Factions and in fact someone has presented on Guru2 that those could more than easily be rainwater. And whether WoC will be the only time we return to Cantha or not is irrelevant - nothing says it has to deal with the Echovald or Jade Sea. And, in fact, no we have absolutely no confirmation that it'll foreshadow Usoku's rise - it's a very high possibility given the initial nature of Beyond, but it isn't actually confirmed. Anyways, I agree with Zesbeer - it's too soon to create a lore background section. And Cantha is more than perfect for that quotation, far more than this page.  Konig / talk 20:50, 4 July 2011 (UTC) We don't have to get through anything before GW2. The development of the two games has nothing to do with each other, these are planned parts of Beyond, and there will be more after that if they feel enough people are still playing GW1 to for it to make sense. Manifold  22:32, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "we still need to get the Ebon Vanguard's return to Ascalon and (possibly) Palawa Joko's chapter out of the way before GW2"


 * Konig: if it's Cantha's final major content update, they'd give the Kurzicks and the Luxons a send-off as well as the City. And Manifold, it'd be counter-intuitive in terms of sales to continue Beyond during the initial period following GW2's release. But it's clear that the consensus is against me here, so I'll wait until we actually see some WoC content in-game and see if we return to the south of Cantha (and I'm confident that we will) before adding back any information. --Santax (talk · contribs) 20:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You're still stuck in the realm of speculation. Nothing states that this is Cantha's final major content update. Nothing states that the Kurzicks and Luxons are involved. Nothing states that it leads to Usoku (fun fact: Ministries are actually undermining the Emporer's control during Factions - so I doubt that one of two potential connections has any connection except potential conflict; that is, the Ministry of Purity is unlikely to be leading to Usoku, and what the Tengu's plight is, is completely unknown and the chances of it dealing directly with Usoku is unlikely as he doesn't appear for decades post WiK's time). We only have a handful of things which we know that will deal with WoC, and the EN manual only barely touches one - the Afflicted. Barely.
 * Also, you're wrong for it to be counter-intuitive to continue Beyond. They are two separate games. Some people will like GW1, and others will like GW2. As they are both without monthly charges, they can be played at the same time, or one at a time. One can buy products for one and play said product, then go and buy products/play content for another. This isn't like comparing two p2p MMOs, this is like comparing any two regular games that have a lot of content and just so happen to also be online. Though the communities of fans overlap (a lot), they are not the same and continuing Beyond will not harm sale of GW2.  Konig / talk 20:55, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So there's Scheduled Maintenance tonight...hmmm. Could this be the content we are so eagerly awaiting?  I know there's is no guarantee, but I do love to dream.  lol.  As far as GWB content going into GW2 release, I could really see it. Most people will buy GW2 because they played GW1, and furthering content for GW1 is logical since not everyone will be able to get GW2 right away.  If anything, it shows the fans that the company has dedication and professionalism which will push more players to buy GW2.  As well, since there is no monthly fee to GW or GW2, once you've bought them, it doesn't much matter if you go back to the original or stay with the new.  You've already bought the game and they already made the money.  lol.  In conclusion, keeping the original updated pushes sales of the original game, which will in turn push sales of GW2.  Just because there's a content update on Guild Wars doesn't mean that no one will buy Guild Wars 2...if it ever hits the shelves, it just means people will have a reason to go back and experience the new content in the original, then go back to GW2. 6 July, 2011
 * Maintenance is never an update, however if the update is before the 9th as Stumme said, as per the section below, it'll be tomorrow (Thursday for Americans).  Konig / talk 00:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Release Date
I changed the release date from happening before the 9th of july to the 9th of july. If you read it John says it will happen on the 9th Hence calling it the big day.Ultrametroid 15:04. 5 July 2011 (GMT)
 * I think he was referring to his wedding for the "big day", but honestly, it doesn't matter, we'll find out in a few days anyways :P ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 14:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * From what i have read and understood the big day is the wedding followed by a honeymoon of about 2 weeks. Damysticreaper 14:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree the big day is prob his wedding, but he also states that we should see WoC be4 his vacation, so I think it's a good deduction. Gaia 16:10, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Why not rephrase it to be more like the prediction it is? e.g. we expect WoC to begin on the ninth (see discussion), but ANet has not officially given us a release date. (People are going to get really upset if for any reason the 9th arrives without an update — perhaps because ANet planned it for a different date, they found an unexpected bug, or some other internal reason we might never learn.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:19, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The rumor for a long time was that WoC would come out at the end of June (and even John kind of hinted at that date, IMO - this speculation was based on timelines and order-of-releases and typical Thursday pushes) - my guess is it wasn't ready June 23 and June 30 was the start of an event, so it was intentionally pushed into July. I agree, though, it's speculation, not cut-and-dry. --Falseprophet 16:27, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Why would 7/9 be the release of WoC? Look at your calendar folks, the 9th is a Saturday. Sometimes they release patches on Friday, but never Saturday. It's most likely going to be Thursday. @Falseprophet: Actually, Stumme never hinted at WoC being in June, he said "something interesting" would be in June and people assumed WoC. He clarified (on Guru, the same post as referenced in the article for the release date) in that he meant the fan-day and the PvP updates were in June.  Konig / talk 16:30, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless Anet has said it will be on the 9th we really should change it to reflect what we have been told and not what we think.--Elemental Phantom 18:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

We have been told that it will should be released before July 9th. Which is exactly what the article states.  Konig / talk 18:33, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Another day without winds of change... :(
 * Sadly, yes. Can't wait for it.  ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 03:23, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Seriously. Everybody is spamming their /excited emotes. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 04:26, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel like a horrible person for saying this, but I hope there's stuff I can make money off of like WiK weapons/minis/etc... don't judge me, I need my consumable titles for GWAMM! >.< But seriously looking forward to the story and content too. :) 67.182.25.254 06:46, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If you are up for it go do DoA, armbraces sell for 20-25 ectos each. (depending on the market value of the ecto). But back to item topic, i seriously do hope it will offer some new armor and no costumes. It's starting to get boring running around in the same armors all the time and there are plenty of materials to combine for a new set or 3, no need for them to be added to HoM. I also wonder if Leek Daggers will be added =P. Damysticreaper 16:50, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll probs never be able to spin your leeks Damy. --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons 16:54, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * New costumes are certain. New armor? No. No profit in that. ♥ Tyloric ♣ 20:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

You're all probably right about the big day thing my mistake can't believe I didn't pick up on that lol. Anyway what is the betting that this servers going offline business is them patching on winds of change as its going to be such a big patch it probably requires the servers to go dead. Ultrametroid 15:04. 5 July 2011 (GMT)

Waits almost over!
Only 15mins untill the servers go down to put it up! ~Nelson (n122333)  13:47, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 3-6PM Eastern standard time is still in 2-5 hours. • • • Mora   17:02, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait... Got my time conversions wrong. Shouldn't it have already happen? ~Nelson (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 13:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * All we know is on or bf the 9th. Many assume today bc that is usually when updates happen. I hope it's today, but we'll just have to wait and see. And shouldn't new sections be at the bottom? -- Moto   Saxon  13:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, still a newb to the wiki. Will do from now on. EDIT: seems its not today then... ~Nelson (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 13:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Updates don't usually happen until 2:00 or 3:00 pm PDT. So it still may yet happen. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 16:44, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ITs way past that. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 16:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you learned how to tell time, but FAIL. If an update happens it likely won't happen for at least another 4 hours. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 16:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Epic fail on calling fails. Check the tag you place after post ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 16:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Not an Exact time for updates-but its typicaly 3-6PM Eastern standard time. What that translates to for UTC I am not sure. ~Nelson(n122333) 15:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)"
 * I might not be able to convert them, but when you post it tells the time you posted it at. You just had 17:12 UTC = 5:12. The majority of updates would have been out by now. And last time i checked 5:12 is way after 2/3pm.  NOW you may have ment EST but the post says PDT  ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 17:09, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So, you use the wiki to tell time? And you're not aware that the wiki shows time in UTC? Per your discussion below, it's been established, despite your fail, that updates happen at 20-23 UTC. Since you're having such a hard time today, let me give you a hand. It is currently 10:00 am PDT, 1 pm EDT, and 17:00 UTC. Again, updates don't happen until 2:00 or 3:00 pm PDT. Do I dare trust your math skills? That's another 4-5 hours. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 17:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * EDIT:opps PDt and something else mixed up. Sorry, disregard my previous statements. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 17:16, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Glad that's all straightened out. Regardless, the wiki notice does say that game/wiki maintenance is planned for 12-14 UTC...which was 5 hours ago. -- Moto   Saxon  17:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fun tip-When you run GW, you no longer get the maintanace tip. GW was never down for me during that time. So no clue whats going on. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 17:27, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Do they ever disclose a maintenance report? --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 17:29, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Not saying they don't, but i've never seen one. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 17:32, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming that it just hasn't happened yet. And that it might take place in 4-5 hours, when updates normally take place. -- Moto   Saxon  17:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But if the game never was down during the "maintenance" (i never saw it down anyways) how did they add the extra content?(unless this next update take a lot longer) ~Nelson (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 18:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've experienced several unusual massive lag spikes (10 seconds or more) between 14:00 UTC and 15:30 UTC so they must have been doing something at that time. My guess: maintenance time had nothing to do with update. Idmz 18:03, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't recall them ever having to close servers for an update, and they never said the network maintenance was for the update. Not sure why you want to keep feeding your own rumor. • • • Mora   18:09, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've never seen them link maintenance to an update. I'm of the opinion that when they say maintenance it is to repair, replace, or update their hardware. But who knows, maybe the maintenance was to prepare for the update. Regardless, the update will be a separate occurrence, one you will have to restart GW for when they release the update at the usual time. Also, some updates occur on Friday. So if it doesn't happen today, don't lose hope. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 18:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is that maintenance was scheduled to take place 5+ hours ago, and it has not happened yet. Neither has the WoC release. We are still waiting for both. They could be tied together, they might not be. -- Moto   Saxon  18:39, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * How do you know the maintenance hasn't happened yet? I'm fairly certain it has. Idmz 18:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The notice is still up and usually we get some info one what the maintenance was fixing (example: in game bugs etc.) -- Moto   Saxon  19:05, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

(moved back to margin) Have a felling they are going to hold off till the morning =( ~Nelson  (n122333)  20:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You're so impatient. :O ♥ Tyloric ♣ 20:53, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * My guildys are convinced its in 3hours from this post. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 21:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Time?
When do game updates usually happen, time-wise? 86.147.197.20 15:08, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, someone is thinking that all the server downage is to set it up, and they will turn it on later... Sounds likely. Cynique 15:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Not an Exact time for updates-but its typicaly 3-6PM Eastern standard time. What that translates to for UTC I am not sure. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 15:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Add 5 hours for UTC/GMT from EST, or BST (British Summer Time) from EDT. Add 6 hours for CET/CEST from EST/EDT (Central European (Summer) Time, which also includes most of Western Europe...) Cynique 15:32, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So 15-18UTC then. But then again, it might not be today. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 15:37, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, 20-23UTC, actually. It's 3PM-6PMEST which is 15-18EST, then plus 5...  But I'm sure you knew that and are just testing me... :)  Cynique 15:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I give up on this... ~Nelson (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 15:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean you give up on it? >_> Updates don't usually happen for another 2-3 hours... and that's IF it happens today. ♥ Tyloric ♣ 17:11, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I was talking about figuring out the time conversion. The update might still have a chance. ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 17:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

{reset-indent} I believe you are looking for [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html this. ]  Кγʃε ʅʃαπ ƌεᴦ Ϻεεᴦ  19:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And added to favorites ~Nelson  (n122333) [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]] 20:41, 7 July 2011 (UTC)