Talk:Game updates/20080320

Rly baed skill changes, pls stop failing. D:--74.61.209.219 20:43, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shut up &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  20:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Rly baed skill changes, pls stop failing. D:--74.61.209.219 20:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * NPA fellas--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig2.jpg|19px]]Ra ph  Tal ky  22:38, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fellas? Seems kinda one sided to me. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  09:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

sundering rangers go bye bye
ty ty ty ty ty ty ty ty for nerfing them, every match in ra thats all u'd see and it got annoying as hell, ty for this nerf XD74.186.169.130 20:46, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Me too. Rangers needed a nerf very badly since in RA there were approximatly 4 rangers in every single game now (out of 8 players). --Xer 20:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * can anyone of you explain why Power Shot got nerfed? I already supposed that skill to be weak, why in hell does it now even deal less damage? &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 20:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Read first comment on page.--74.61.209.219 21:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Power Shot follows the dmg of Precision Shot. It would make the balance of them go wrong. But ye, I think rawr send a few angry e-mails to Anet after they got rolled by a 2,2k rank machine gunner build. BlazeRick 21:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Power Shot should be 5 energy, IMHO. --Srakin 21:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Your Joking right? 21:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)Cake and Waffles
 * NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! The one time ANet cares about Rangers enough to nerf us. Better find a new slot filler. [[Image:user eldin sig.jpg]] Eldin 21:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Cry more? XD -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 22:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Someone please explain why Power Shot needs to follow Precision Shot stat-wise? And the first comment on Power Shot's discussion page just proves how bad it was before getting nerfed. Silavor 22:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Power Shot and Precision Shot are the same skills really. Except for the unblockable part on Precision, which makes it get the Easily Interrupted penalty. They have been the same +dmg, energy, recharge and activation times since the release of Prophecies. I'm not saying whether the skills are bad or good, I'm just giving you the reasoning. BlazeRick 01:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Power Shot does more dmg now than Precision Shot. Yay you! Because you used it right? BlazeRick 01:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

ROFLMFAO. After 3 years you buff those skills to where they're finally usable, and then promptly nerf them to shit again. Because Power Shot really needed a nerf, didn't it? Arshay Duskbrow 02:15, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The problem wasn't the damage so much (I could kill the Master of Damage in about 8 seconds with the build I used, which is on par with most pure spike builds), it was Prepared Shot making this assault neverending. Now the Master of Damage goes down in 12 seconds, which turns this into a pressure build instead of a spike. It's still usable in that sense, but I might have preferred a nerf to Prepared Shot (maybe 10r) to give the build some downtime instead.--Glenforder 02:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would not have preferred that. Stupid as this is, it would be even worse to nerf a great multipurpose elite like Prepared because of one type of build. Arshay Duskbrow 11:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Fox's Promise
Ummm, why did that need to get nerfed? Did people use it for anything other than Scythe builds? Misery 20:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A/D gvg faggotry &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  20:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Obs more and you'd understand--74.61.209.219 20:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm It's seems the Only way to prevent abuse from players is to nerf, well I won't complain there plenty of pleople for that.. but once again it's due to pvp. 21:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)Cake and Waffles
 * Oh poor you, I'm sure it was very popular in PvE >.> --70.55.109.251 22:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah but -> only works with daggers = never see use in the light of day again. Misery 21:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Think it was more of a porblem in HA than in GvG. But hell, HA still has Dark Apostasy. BlazeRick 21:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

GOOD NIGHT, SWEET PRINCE. --71.229.204.25 21:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Connecting
Is anyone else having a problem restoring connection to Anet once u run it again? Won't let me log in >.< -- Marin  Bloodbane  21:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do people always think it's the updates that doesn't make you connect or w/e. Tons of people are restarting, reconnecting, and internet/router/modem problems are common. BlazeRick 21:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * kk ty blaze just never had this problem before relogging after a new build. -- Marin  Bloodbane  21:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * We should make a wiki bot that inserts a "Put your random OMGOSH UPDATE CRASHES MEH!!!11! post here" section in the talk lol. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 22:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason people ask about it is because they are having problems connecting when they hadn't previously. They look to see what the difference is and see that there was an update. It's not that big of a leap to wonder if that might be the cause. Sure, the problem may not be the update, but it's perfectly acceptable to politely tell them that you haven't been having the issue rather than being insulting. Please remember that there is a person on the other side of the conversation. Thefount 00:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't mean to insult (and I think I haven't). But I posted a comment like this, and even explaining politely on several update Talk pages. It's just common sense imo. But hey, who am I? BlazeRick 01:15, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Better yet we should add,
 * This update is not responsible for:
 * Trouble experienced during connection
 * Lag
 * The game Crashing
 * This update may be responsible for:
 * Having to change you skill bar
 * The complainers on the talk page
 * at the end of every update, of course removing or adding points depending on whether the update apllies or not.  Broodling [[Image:User Broodling67 sig.PNG]] 04:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Enchanters
How did EC change? Isn't this identical to the last change? — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ 21:28, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * the hex clause--74.61.209.219 21:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah, re-nerfed. EC is dead. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 21:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Very much so. Ah well, I guess it was to be expected.  >_<; --Srakin 21:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why is it dead? It's just to keep you from spiking monks while having diversion on em. Still works in a E-Surge bar (with E-Surge being Conun ofc). Also, Mesmers are never meant to spike. BlazeRick 22:13, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * where's the fcking conundrum in this skill now? the point was to make people enchant themself before the damage and the mesmer to get an easy time to interrupt enchants or remove them, not this shit, the damage was too high and now it's conditional far beyond failure --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 22:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would love to just hit the undo button on the last changes on EC, put it back to how it was, and just nerf the damage. What good is a skill that does 999 damage if the condition is it has to hit a target suffering from three hexes, every condition in the game, and isn't enchanted or in a stance?
 * Simply cut the damage; make it so people actually have to think about if they want to put up an enchantment and risk a worse interrupt, or just take the damage. Put the "Enchanter's Conundrum" back in "Enchanter's Conundrum", so to speak. Don't like the spike? Make it more of a pressure skill. Still useful that way, at the very least. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  07:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. This is like taking the burning out of Searing Flames. wtf, over? - Auron 10:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * My understanding is the problem was not with the 'conundrum' part of it (forcing the target to try to cast an enchantment), rather people using shatter delusions to spike the target (in which case, the target had no time to consider the 'conundrum'). Revert the skill to its original effect and damage, but make it a 'skill effect' rather than a hex so the mesmer cannot trigger the damage early. Jbuk 10:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not too bad as a matter of fact... forcing the spike to actually take ten seconds to trigger. Not much of a spike like that. The thing with that version though would be, a Monk can't remove it; in a normal situation, a Monk might prefer the damage over not being able to get enchantments up. I just think though, if the damage was the problem from the start, why not nerf that, instead of killing other aspects of the skill. Treat the cause, not the symptom. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  10:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it was the combination of damage from EC and shatter delusions that caused the problem, plus that it could be easily timed to coincide with other attacks. A 10 second warning is more than enough time to prepare for the damage, either by getting an enchantment up or readying some healing. If the damage is too low players will just ignore it - it needs to be high enough to scare players into some sort of action to be an interesting skill. I guess the problem with it being a skill rather than a hex is that it would become an anti-prot-monk skill as the slowdown effect could not be removed. How about Skill. For 10 seconds, target foe casts Enchantments 100% slower. When this skill ends, that foe takes x damage. This skill ends prematurely (without doing damage) if an enchantment is cast on that foe.. That way the damage could not be triggered prematurely, but the effect could be removed by any enchantment being successfully cast on the target. That might make it a bit too easy to remove, but it would accomplish the aim of either dealing damage, or creating interrupt or shatter/drain enchantment opportunities. Jbuk 14:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm...not to complain...but uh....where's the conundrum in the skill now? I don't really see a solvable problem...this is more of a "Well that sucks" Kind of instance...not really a conundrum haha -Warior kronos 15:43, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Angorodon's Gaze
This IS a buff, right? o.O And if so...euh...why? =S --Srakin 21:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Definite nerf against b-spike- Insane Maestro [[Image:User Insane Maestro Sig.png‎|19px]] 21:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * use with foul feast--Underwood 21:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * now it's moar of an energy management skill --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 22:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  23:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Where's the energy supposed to go? Vamp bite? --24.179.151.252 01:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That, or Spoil Victor, Strip Enchantment, Well of Power, Vampiric Swarm, etc. Those are actively used skills in PvP btw. BlazeRick 01:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, this is definitely b-spike nerf, saw an 8-man N/* rank 300 guild destroy a conventional build rank 5 guild. Just 79's all over from angorodon's gaze on top of signet of agony. In a way, it's a pity I suppose, since ANet is now really forcing people to play the conventional builds - may as well just make one kind of skill set per class then and leave it to player skill and timing, along the way of how the halloween pvp was done. --Shaia 08:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but it's bloodspike, and you don't want that because you can't defend against it, you can have 8 eles and do a syncro lightning hammer if you really want, but you'll get demolished because a single prot spirit is all you need to stop it. The game is supposed to be able lots of professions in one setup, or at least lots of different builds from a few professions, not just a copy paste for the whole team.--Ckal Ktak 11:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

this sucks
dang, they're killing my 2 favorites professions. rangers and assassins RIP. and fyi Rspike sucks. mist form=pwnage74.142.187.245 23:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * lol mistform--74.61.209.219 23:19, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would like to second that lol. --71.229.204.25 23:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Assassins aren't RIP :P MiraLantis 01:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * sins have been RIP for a wile. along with rits and paras. Anet loves to nerf and not buff. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.172.43.101 (talk).
 * So rits don't have Ancestor's Rage or Splinter Weapon? And paragons don't *still* have too much armor, energy management, and autoattack damage - not to mention party buffs like Defensive Anthem that make their defense web incredibly strong? K...
 * At least you got the part about sins right. - Auron 08:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For a RIP class, 'Sins are still seeing quite a lot of use. :D --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  08:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Only in gimmicks. That means it's a dead class. - Auron 08:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That contradicts the definition of "dead", hehe. If a class is used on a regular basis for somewhat gimmicky uses, it doesn't count as being used at all? I won't argue, 'Sins are relegated to a scant few useful builds (Shattering Assault is occasionally useful, Scythe 'Sins are used occasionally in HA, I assume some people still use SP). But it's not all complete gimmick-land, just... let's call it "second-tier metagame"-land. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  08:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It isn't being used on a regular basis. It's used in sinsplit, and that happens about once a month for mATs. There is no simple balanced sin build that people run in GvG or HA or anything... it's just gimmicks, and has been for the past 6 or more months.
 * I didn't have a problem with dark/shadow prison tbh, they weren't very prevalent (my only problem with shadow prison was the N/A's using it with deadly paradox, and those weren't common). But now, with the scythe sins out of commission... that entire tier of build ideas are out of the question.
 * It frustrates me, though; why add skills like Way of the Master if you're going to nerf the shit out of everything that can use it? Do they seriously want people to use sword sins or something? :/ - Auron 09:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * While it's blockable, Wounding Strike 'Sins still work nicely, and I've been seeing Dark Apostasy Scythe 'Sins seeing use as well. It's really hard to point to a prevalent 'Sin build now, esepecially a Dagger 'Sin, but I think the fact that they get used so much for gimmicks is a sign that they're not dead. Yet, at least. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  10:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm....
Everyones saying that skills are being nerfed "out of the game." What would happen...if every skill was nerfed "out of the game"....hmm...-Warior kronos 01:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's just mass hysteria because the major cookiecutters in HA got hit. It'll wear off in a day or 2 when people find other stuff to abuse/overuse. And then you get this again. Neverneding loop :D BlazeRick 01:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Life would be boring if we just had to face the same builds over and over forever. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 01:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ":True, that's why I hardly complain at balances, I just go make another build right away. As an extensive Mesmer I did cry a bit for MoR. But that too got old. BlazeRick 01:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "because the major cookiecutters in HA got hit." Really? Cos I swear I still see R/D's running around avoiding all direct damage, spamming Deep Wound and removing enchants every 8 seconds, along with trappers disabling entire other teams with AoE daze, a rit expelling off snare hexes so they can run relics, and 2 N/Rt gimmicks fueled by soul reaping and pumping out spirits and partyheals. Doesn't seem nerfed to me. - Auron 08:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, Sway is like weed. It just won't go away, no matter how much you try to kill it. BlazeRick 10:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, to OP: we're heading towards that now. Guild Wars is already pretty compact in terms of skills you can use. Monks take dismiss condi for standard condition removal. No exceptions. The other stuff has just been power creeped out of the game. If a warrior wants damage and spiking, he uses Eviscerate. No exceptions. There are so many of these "no exceptions" cases that Guild Wars is really a boring game to play and to watch. Either you run the few skills that work or you lose. ANet really isn't giving us a bunch of choices :/ - Auron 10:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Sundering/Penetrating
Well, on the bright side I may actually be able to record that Snake Dance Portal to Camp Rankor run in Hard mode. Only leg of the run I was having troubles with in HM (those stone summit rangers hit HARD). However I wonder if this was a tad in the overkill range. Simply reducing the dmg, or reducing the armor penetration would have sufficed I think, but then again I don't pvp all that much, and even I can see that the "machine gunner" build had a bit too much sustainable firepower. Kelvin Greyheart 01:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Umm, why would you bother to put HM on for running? Ayumbhara 02:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ever heard of people doing things for FUN? --141.158.121.156 03:15, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well its fun, but I also want to show that dervs are a little broken as far as runners go. I mean... I can run a forge run, a shiverpeak tour, elona reach, the whole sanctuary to bazzar run, and never go below 50% hp.  Heck, even a grotto run through icedome only drops me below 50% (even post mystic regen nerf) if I get it shattered before I can get VoS up, which is rare, and even then I can still take 2 shatters without dying.  I almost never go below 75% hp in normal mode on forge runs, and tours.  Few months ago I was running a few people to the forge in my old alliance.  Grabbed a few other people figuring why not, and one of the alliance members said something along the lines of.. "hrm.. wonder if 3D (Double Derv Dare is my dervish) can do this in Hard Mode."  Thought.. hey why not give it a go...3rd try I made it.  I know its pointless as far as making money goes, but running is more of a hobby for me.  Yeah sure I've made a couple million off of it, but I've probably given away a good 750k in free runs on the side.  For me its fun.  But hey, I'm crazy like that ;) Kelvin Greyheart 05:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Man, what happened to the days when warriors were the main running profession =P-Warior kronos 15:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It happened about the time NF came out, and the warriors fate as secondary was sealed with this change. Update page. That is not to say that I think VoS itself is overpowered...in fact I'm not really sure what is overpowered with the individual skills in the dervish running build, but they have excellent synergy in a way that no other profession can compete with, and that more than the sum of its parts is what makes the Dervish so amazingly broken as a runner. High peed, high armor, powerful healing, anti spell, anti knockdown, safety nets (the interventions), and Mysticism to make energy conservation moot, all add up to the best general running platform.  Kelvin Greyheart 15:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)