ArenaNet talk:Guild Wars 2 suggestions/Ideal Norn Bear

moved from /scratchpad
In my opinion, the current bears the norn transform into look too scrawny, especially their legs. I believe in GW2, Norn bears should look more like the original concept art depiction (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Concept-036-page.jpg). The bears should be more ferocious, with armor, and armored claws like in the picture. I would like to emphasize the use of claws rather than the current weapons the bears use in EotN. It just looks awkward having a bear hold a shield and sword. Instead, there could be different types of clawlike gloves or gauntlets that you can buy (like a weapon). Maybe add an option of fur color and patterns as well.
 * GW2 will have an updated graphics engine (not that I know anything about technical stuff), so we'd expect improvements to all of the current concept arts, hopefully :) (Terra Xin 02:18, 23 June 2008 (UTC))
 * You know, I'd hope to see nothing of the Norn in GW2. The glorification of relying on an animal entity for strength... that was a horrible idea to begin with and I DO NOT want to see the current Norn related skill dramas carry on into the next generation. It'd be darn right stupid of ANet to include them.. Unless of course, they were all dying and you had to go save their dumb asses. I'd never have to hear my character cry 'Great Raven, save us all!' ever again and that would make me very happy. Spawnlegacy 00:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The Norn are already announced as a playable race.
 * In my personal opinion, the entirety of the EotN campaign and all within it should be retconned. Remove Asura, Norn, and Sylvari.  Say we killed the Destroyers the same way we killed all the others... by teaming up together and going through a bunch of weird quests, rather than asking a bunch of pseudointellectual midgets and no-wit giants for help.  But then all the players of IQ less than about 15 (aka the majority) will go BAAAAAWWWWW BUT MOM, YOU SAID WE COULD PLAY AS THOSE AWESOME SEVEN-FOOT-TALL GUYS! and ANet will lose 99% of their business.  Wait, where's the negative here?  --Jette 02:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC) (p.s., more on topic, the Norn are ugly as all hell anyway, so no matter how bad they look in bear form, it's still an improvement.)

I like this kid ^ Spawnlegacy 12:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

lol dude, the norn rule^^Nilzardo 13:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, hai. In case you couldn't tell, you were the majority I was referring to.  --Jette 01:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it sounded like YOU Jette personally have a problem with the norn style and no1 else? So insecure about ure feelings you try to insult the majority of the GW population with a comment like "IQ of less than 15"? You are actually sounding like the child here, its fine to have your opinion of characters/races but if you dont like them tough, either grow up and accept it or Don't play gw2 Quazark Zeklar [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 08:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I am merely expressing my opinion on the norn appearance. The rest of your comments are sweeping, baseless assumptions.  My reply is that yes, I am an ass,  If this bothers you, go whine to an admin like everyone else.  --Jette 09:05, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hah, this is worse than youtube commenters, I stress to think of people that act the way you do as their natural response. I guess little kiddies finding their way onto sites like these and even onto guild wars itself is inevitable. A man that prides himself on being an ass may feel like he is superior but all I know is I'm not the ass. Quazark Zeklar [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 19:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a suggestion area entitled Ideal Norn Bear. The Ideal Norn Bear, for Jette and I, is a inexistent Norn Bear. Please try and keep on subject Quazark/Jette and don't let your personal pride fill this page with banter. Quazark does have a point, however. If we don't like it, we probably shouldn't buy Guild Wars 2. This will not only be good for him but good for ANet as a whole. Sarcasm aside, severely limiting bear form is the way to go. Thankyou for not getting aggressive in advance. Spawnlegacy 07:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Visual appearances are -- from my point of view, in this regard at least -- completely irrelevant.  It needs to be balanced.  Bonus health, like Avatar of Melandru, would be fine.  250 bonus health?  If the numbers are the same as they are in GW1 (480 is about max health, that is) then that's going to be imbalanced.  As for bonus damage... well, I think that any bonus damage is going to be a serious issue.  25% boost + 20% weapon customization + 15% conditional = wtfh4x!  Even with prot, that's a significant boost when the damage does get through.  sigh   You give players superpowers and it's hell to balance by default, and we already know how well ANet is handling GW1.  --Jette 09:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you are assuming too much anyhow, yes there will most probably be npcs using bear form and there is a good chance there will be some sort of skill like that for players but it being the same strength or even based on title are things that we have yet to see. The likeilhood is that the bear will be much less powerful because of all the complaints about it. So not buying GW2 just because of this overpowered thing at the end of GW1 seems a bit extreme. I take the veiw that the Ursan was overpowered simply to sell more eotn copies as this is the last GW installments. Also if you do not like the norn "style" there are 3 other races to play. Ofcourse I do not mind whether you buy GW2 or not but atleast realise that the bear probably wont be "overpowered" and the norn wont be the dominant feature of the game Quazark Zeklar [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 15:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * [reset]I'm buying the game regardless of ANet's balance choices, I'm not sure why you and Spawn seem to think I won't. I agree that EotN played exactly like what it was, an advertisement for GW2, but that doesn't change the fact that the next game must be properly balanced.  And other than their obviously somewhat lower intelligence, I'm not seeing any disadvantage a Norn might have over a human, and intelligence is controlled by the player, not the character.  We've all seen how well ANet has been handling GW since EotN came out, and it's something of a grim omen.  If GW2 is released and it turns out to be on the razor's edge of balance, hell, I'll send a sincere letter of apology to ANet's development team for all the, um, "unkind comments" I've made about them since September.  Until then, I'm just trying to point out things that I don't think will work.  Or something, I think this originally had something to do with a model.  Not bothering to re-read the section.  --Jette 05:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Your over-the-top reaction to cool looking norn was what suggested to me you did not want gw2 if you can get so worked up about it. Besides that changing into a bear will probably just mean more hp and thats it, basic stuff like that. Making them look good while in this form (which is what this section is all about) is only really a good thing, I'm up for new norn weapons like metal claws etc. And back to your comment off "not seeing a disadvantage of a norn to that of a human" obviously shows you have not played that much of a wide variety of games. The most comon thing done when a person has good hp and melee is that they cannot cast spells fast or to the best affect. Humans, from what i gather, will be balanced and not great but not bad at everything. Many games have adopted this strategy and you have to look outside of guild wars perhaps to realise this. Then again guild wars already simulates this, it would be like saying "since warriors have so much armour how are they worse than a monk?". Less Norn hate more thinking and research. This place is not supposed to be a place to arguement but to discuss ideas and as we know the norn is not an "idea" it is already in place and their signiture move is bear form there is no point disputing it, just accept it and accept it will have a high chance of working completely different to the current "ursan" Quazark Zeklar  [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 17:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Bearing in mind, Anet did say there would be "buffs/benefits" when playing solo, this could mean that seperate races will have seperate versions of these "benefits". The ideal norn, in my opinion, could be more visually enhanced than their GW1 counterparts, as previously suggested, but I don't want my damage type having to be changed because I'm now wielding claws. Whisperer 14:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression the idea was that the norn would have these claws as a standard weapon, sort of like daggers? Faster attack speed or something? Much more interesting than the shield/sword combo which every rpg and its mother uses. Quazark Zeklar  [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 20:34, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

~I agree that the norn bear should be a lot cooler looking, like in the concept art. I do disagree with the addition of claws or a different damage type, it seems silly (though transforming into a bear does as well). In terms of how overpowered this form is going to be should be in a different topic as this is more of an artistic ideal. I would like to point out though, that it is VERY likely (or should be) that the norn party size would be smaller (fitting into their personality) then the rest, at least until the point where each race interacts.
 * In response to the idea that claws would look "silly" Ninja Gaiden and Wolverine seem to pull it off very nicely Quazark Zeklar [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 14:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)