User:Jon Lupen/GW2!=WoW

Guild Wars 2 != World of Warcraft - DarkNecrid
Don't think that way man ("Removing the lvl 20 level cap ==> more grind,More pve oriented,More then 1 race" is what I am referring to), that's what every idiot out there on GWO & GWG uses as their argument, and it is 100% wrong tbh. You could argue freaking EVE Online = World of Warcraft with that argument and they're both completely different games entirely in the MMORPG genre. There's more to WoW than a high level cap, a focus on PvE, and more than 1 race.

World of Warcraft was fundamentally created to be a non-hardcore MMORPG, with no real risks for anything you do, and just the bare bone basics. There's nothing really innovative in it beyond the raiding system, every other core feature has been done before, but Blizzard added their own bit of polish. MMORPGs all have fundamental concepts that they generally tend to share: multiple races, persistent worlds, higher level cap. This doesn't automatically make you World of Warcraft.

Sure, they removed the Level 20 cap in PvE. That's because it allows them more creative control with the PvE experience. It doesn't have to be a grind, in fact with the ability to create more varied monsters, I doubt it will be. One of GW1's strong PvE bits is the quests are all varied and interesting, the only thing really holding them back is that the monsters are all horribly easy and the rewards are all boring. That's something that can be changed with a more varied level cap. On top of that, neither you nor me knows how they're implementing it but if they don't have an actual level cap, it's very likely they're using a plateau system instead of an exponential one. Exponential is like World of Warcraft, a Level 80 character by itself is way stronger than a Level 79 character, but in a plateau system you get slightly less stronger every time you level up, to the point that leveling up doesn't matter. GW1 is kinda like this, except it plateau's out very fast. It doesn't have to be a grind, you're just used to seeing a high level cap = grind. It's all about how the gameplay works out, and with a very good and varied questing structure like GW1's, it won't be much of a grind at all, and will still allow skill > grind, because someone who is lower leveled than you won't be at much of a disadvantage, unlike WoW.

GW2 is not more PvE oriented from what I can see though. It's oriented for both. The enhancements they've made to the PvP system is super awesome. Now when you're in PvE areas you're a PvE character who grows endlessly but at any time you can (on the same character, there's essentially no more PvP characters to save you slots from what we've been told) jump to a PvP area and get your access to all items + skills and are set to a certain level to make the game balanced. The fact that they've mentioned UAX at the start already = hell yeah finally. The unlimited leveling system can also help PvP balance too, since PvP characters are defaulted to some level, they could say make them access only Attributes 0...20 of every skill, and then since they can't go higher than that Attributes 21+ can do whatever the hell they want for PvE and not affect PvP. Having fewer PvP game types is going to help the overall balance, and since Izzy knows adding 4 professions and tons of skills ruined the game, it's doubtful they're going to repeat that mistake again. GW2's structure helps them make better PvE and PvP experiences for everyone...PvE players can have an experience where they get to RP and grow their character in a relatively grind free, story based, game, and PvP players get an experience tailored to just getting in the action and killing people in a relatively balanced game.

Combine this with actual story telling through instances like GW1, the ability to use your environment in combat, limited skill bars, and so on and it really doesn't seem like World of Warcraft at all. They're definitely treating it as a competitor, hence their current strategy. They're hiding stuff so no one takes it from them, and they've chosen a long release date so they can polish it up a lot. You really just need 3 things to compete with WoW: fun, originality, and polish. Originality they already have down for GW2 in many areas, polish will come with time, all they need is fun...it's tough to say if it'll have that from what GW1's definition of "fun" was towards the end, but if they tap into what GW1 was and realize what made it great, they'll have no problems having a great competitor to WoW - especially if it's F2P and looks hot. ArenaNet is actually being very smart when it comes to not releasing stuff until it's very very polished and they're ready, it's the best way to go...look at Blizzard.

Anyways, I figured I'd ask because you're pretty smart, and I don't like seeing people get into this way of thinking. Even if ArenaNet may have done poorly on GW1, it was their first game and if you look at it that way, they were very successful. Most companies who release their first online game like this go under, but Anet was very successful with what they tried to do enough to take what they learned and give it another shot. Their business strategy and what they've shown so far gives me a lot of hope that they know what they're doing this time around. Food for thought, I guess.

Yes, that's what WoW is, a game focused on its PvE, I won't argue that, but GW2 is clearly not that, the PvP system is not barebones like WoW's was (and still is) and they've enhanced the PvP character system and such and put actual tangible thought into what people want and how to work that. Yes, GW1 was originally focused on PvP, there's not denying that too. Things change, in GW1's case it hurt the game. It doesn't have to be that way though. If they help foster and grow the PvP community correctly this time, there's absolutely no reason you can't be both and do both greatly. There's nothing wrong with being PvX, most people in GW1 are already PvX after all, a ton of "PvPers" play PvE too and have GWAMM and such. It's a slight change of focus but that doesn't automatically mean it has to hurt PvP. While the low level cap is cool (but done before), I think the skill bar is what made GW special, forcing you to only take 8 measly skills and really think about how those interact with every other skill on your team was revolutionary for the time and still is actually (which is why they're doing it again for GW2!). As is, GW2 can't be a WoW replica, it's too different from WoW already, not just in features but in their focus.

All I'm essentially saying is that having a PvP focus doesn't necessarily mean anything. Fury had a PvP focus and its PvP was drat terrible, likewise GW2 can be focused on both and still have an amazing (dare I say, better than GW1?) PvP, they just have to do it right from the start. GW1's focus on PvP was what brought me into it too, and yeah they changed to PvE a bit more because there was an audience for it that they could tap, but now they can tap both from the start with what they both want and really make something awesome for both PvE and PvP players, and I have high hopes that they'll be able to pull it off. Certain parts of ArenaNet may be stupid, but they know how to pick their battles, they wouldn't attempt trying to compete with World of Warcraft unless if they knew they had something that could really blow away it's PvE side with innovative and fun content and it's PvP with some of the most balanced PvP there is.