Talk:"Incoming!"

Change Effect
To "For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot would take damage, that damage is negated.". Any thoughts? though the name might be changed(ballard of incoming?) and it possibly be made into a chant10:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Imba! 05:14, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea. 85.168.232.38 00:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, i say recharge 8~10 secs--WikiWu 07:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, just make a new skill called that :P K&Phi;&Phi;bes  talk 21:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would it be changed at all? The effect would work fine with the current name, and the suggested one wouldn't work with this skill. "Ballad" is for Chants. This is a shout. 71.127.159.233 20:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Skill locations
I think there is something wrong with that skill capture locations. I have completed "Destroy the harpies" but Scratcher and Screecher are in this area. Kunan the Loudmoth was not there as expected. - MSorglos 14:58, 20 April 2007 (EDT) The same goes for me. I tried finding Kunan at least 10 times with no success so i checked whether or not screecher and scratcher were around. For some strange reason scratcher was there, screecher wasn't. I also checked to see if i had done all the quests needed for Kunan to appear, and apparently I did, so this must be some sort of glitch on Anet's behalf.


 * I think the quest Extinction needs to be completed, but I've already done it on all my characters that far, so I can't confirm when exactly the bosses are present. I found Kunan the Loudmouth in the expected location. Sargon LL 23:04, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

Skill Locations
I've completed "Destroy the Harpies" and finished "Desprate Measures." The only remaining chance to capture "Incoming" is by killing Kunan the Loudmouth. However, he will not spawn in the area until a chain of ~5 quests is completed! Someone should tell anet. Only being able to capture a skill during certain quests (no perm. boss) is extremely annoying.
 * There is a permanent location for the skill. Two bosses before Destroy the Harpies, and one boss after Destroy the Harpies. poke | talk 23:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * After Extinction according to Kunan's article. If you've already completed Destroy the Harpies and Desperate Measures, you'll have to either join a party with someone else who hase on of those two quests, complete the long quest chain which ends with Extinction or unlock it with Balthazar faction and then use an Elite Paragon Tome. The complete quest chain for Extinction is Old Friends from Sergeant Bolrob in the Kodash Bazaar, For Your Ears Only and Interception from Commander Tanmod in Dzagonur Bastion, Population Control and Guard Rescue from Prince Ahmtur the Mighty in the Citadel of Dzagon section of Wilderness of Bahdza and finally Extinction from Lieutenant Murunda in Dzagonur Bastion. -- Gordon Ecker 10:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Re-reads first comment* ... never mind .... Anyway, I think by permanent the anonymous poster means always there, as opposed to never disappears. I agree that it's a nuisance, but at least "Incoming!" is easier to cap than Feast of Corruption. -- Gordon Ecker 20:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Weak?
Am i missing something, or is this skill actually a little underpowered? Well, the effect is better than Aegis for sure, it has no casting time, and can't be removed. But it only lasts 3 Seconds, even with high command, and has a 20sec recharge time. you really need to catch a good moment where you know that the team will take a big amount of damage... —Zerpha The Improver 16:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Holders in HA killed Incoming. Bad initial design did as well. Readem  Promote My Ban Here  06:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

A little underpowered?It's one of the worst skills there is,the only use i see for this is a siege attack,and even then you will need some good timing,this is in a bad need of a buff,it's duration doesn't even last 1/4 its recharge time,and "There's Nothing To Fear!"'s duration last over half it's recharge,seriously,right now,this is one of the worst skills in the game.

No.,This could use a buff...Such as doubling the duration, halving the effect (only 25% less damage) 25% seemed to work fine for "They're On Fire!" (At 15 Leadership, I think). And it could allow Paragon's to bring another protection elite then Defensive Anthem... RitualDoll 03:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

This really seems like a disfunctional skill overall, Paragon Shout use is already very circumstancial, it requires players to sit in a tight group, and become vulnerable to AoE damage. It's real problem along with most chants and shouts is a lack of opposition and counter effectiveness. If it is used by one than it is fine, but spamed over multiple and it synregizes too well. They should really consider increasing the lasting time, and limiting the protection to a certain number of hits. This way it offers great group protection, yet a single spiked target will only benifit shortly against an onslaught.

Something like 10 energy, 10 second duration and 20 second recharge, and damage taken by allies is reduced by 50% for the next 2-5...7 hits. Depending on how effective it is, it could increase to maybe 10 hits. That way it doesn't make an entire team invulnerable to a spike. It also defeats the purpose of using it to protect a single ally, since spamming it among several allies will not be nearly as effective as single unit support skills. I should take this to underpowered skills though.--BahamutKaiser 01:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Could always make it more like Life Sheath too, "The next X damage is negated for all Party Members in earshot", or it could be made closer to shields up. You don't scream "Incoming" if theres a warrior banging on you with a hammer already, so it would affect ranged attacks and spells( since you can see the affect coming at you I guess). It'd be sort of like the opposite of DA then, not protecting against melee but against every things else. Just a thought though, since this skill is too weak as is, but can't be buffed in it's current form because of HA. RitualDoll 18:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Just thinking this could work well against Cyndr The mountain heart's Pyroclastic shot in the Heart of the shiverpeaks dungeon, when he uses it quickly shout Incoming and it would hit around 100-125 dmg on a 60 armor target, just thinking though

Worse NF Elite
I think this basically deserve this title. Since its compeltely useless. Where would it be useful? HA spike do once every 4-8 seconds (R-Spike is 4) PVE is compeltely useless Cyndr shoot over 8 shots in 20 seconds. As above stated buff of this skill is almost like mandatory. One of the following buff would be nice Kullwarrior
 * Duration last 1...6(1-12)
 * Change effect to global spirit bond style everytime taking 50dmg+ heal 50 for 1...5(1-12) decrease recharge to 15
 * Reduce Recharge to 10
 * yeah, as readem said, this skill got nerfed and likely won't be buffed unless the functionality of this skill becomes changed, adding a drawback or a specific condition requirement to work... —Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 13:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

wastrels collapsion tops the list.
 * Absolutely, this skill's short duration and long recharge kills this skill. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  15:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Why This is in the State it's In
Let's say this did get buffed to a duration of 1...10...11 seconds. Now, let's say I want spammable 50% damage reduction in GvG, so I bring two Paragons. I give one monk Life Sheath, which now lasts twice as long due to spammable 50% damage reduction that cannot be removed. I bring a second monk to heal (which I probably wouldn't even need), and the rest of my team is dedicated to spiking. Who's up for a game of that?--Glenforder 06:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Which is why I think there needs to be some sort of divorce between pve and pvp skills.  It's often because some guys figured out a team build to totally exploit a skill that that skill gets totally destroyed in an update.  Theres a difference, a good sized difference between pvp skill usage and pve skill usage.  Instead of anet wasting their time on awkward blocks of skill descriptions(aka concise) they should be creating some new standards of balancing or figuring out how to create some kinda skill usage barrier between pve and pvpKing steve 23:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Bravo. Well said. I do, however, like the concise descriptions. IrishRedneck 18:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well then. We finally get a split between PvE and PvP skills... only to gain a whole TWO seconds for this skill. I still find that a little odd... =\ Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 22:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

i suggest 1....5..9 seconds--Ra ph  Tal ky  02:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Two seconds is still a huge buff when you consider chaining it with other paragons. --Ckal Ktak 23:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Four paragons wasting their elite on this, as well as maxing Command, just so the rest of the party can have 50% damage reduction isn't that effective. In today's society, you only need one paragon, a monk, and a whole lot of game-breaking robots to get effective results. Nothing else matters. We are the Norn. Prepare to be assimilated. xP Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 02:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

suggestion?
im not too good at skill changes, but possibly make it even more anti spike ie lasts 1/4 second instant cast, recharge 8 cost 10e? and make it do 75%? because then itd need reasonable accuracy to save a spike, would need decent e-management to work, and woudlnt be able to be kept up indefinately? im sure there plenty room for improvement on this but you get the idea i think Twiggie 09:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting to change it to a chant with 1/4-second cast? Aside from there not being any chants that I can think of which are less than 1-second cast, the personality of the skill is that of a shout.  What killed this skill in the first place was the infamous 8-man invincible Paragon teams that steamrolled GvG matches for a time.  I honestly don't think Arena Net conceived that people would use more than one or two Paragons in a team when they built the profession.  So, the challenge for Paragon balancing is how to make it powerful enough to be useful with just one Paragon on the team without making it ridiculously imbalanced with eight of them.--Glenforder 04:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "lasts 1/4 second, instant cast." He's suggesting changing the duration, not the cast time. - Auron 05:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 15e 15r All allies within earhsot become empowered by "Incoming!". The next skill to affect them deals 25...75% less damage. There now that's better lol. Lost-Blue 05:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's terrible. A single skill would be like, one lightning orb or a single derv attack skill. Seeing as most spikes have to overdo it on damage to make sure they kill, reducing the damage from one skill will not do anything. If it was one skill, it'd be non-elite and 5 energy. - Auron 08:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And still nobody would carry it. --71.229.204.25 08:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I sort of have an idea Like that for this skill, but Im sure no one would like it. How about: ""Incoming!" - Elite Shout - Energy: 10 - Recharge: 20 seconds: For 10 seconds, the next 1..2..3 times each party member is damaged, the damage is reduced by 30...45..75%."?--Media Control 02:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Old name?
I was told this had another name and was very popular for it. If so what was it originaly called? Treesbyty 12:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "Watch yourself, They're throwing Toothpicks at us !" Close Impact 20:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

update
i think this skill is nice for pve now, yet it still isn't as overpowered as TNTF or SY. &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 16:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, now that it has 4 at 12, that means 8 seconds of 50% reduction with Vocal was Slogan. :o Halogod35 15:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could just run TNTF/SY and not gimp your damage by holding ashes the entire time. Oh, and the SY upkeep is very nearly 100%; much better than 8/20. The buff is a nice gesture, but it's simply a bad elite compared to the pve skills that already exist. - Auron 15:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * yeah, Vocal Was Sogolon (Sogolon, not "Slogan") is useful for that. Though the duration is increased by 50%, not by 100%, that's a duration of 6 seconds (7 with 14 or more command). And Auron is also right, as i said, the others are still more powerful. Though it's at least not as useless as before, and that's nice. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 15:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if you're a Paragon player, bring the imbagon and use 2 heroes with this. Don't think you would need a monk for much of anything. But then again with SY up most the time you don't need one as it is. Bla guess it could be useful for something, just not much. 78.2.50.153 18:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Might be useful on a hero since they cant use pve skills I don't know.70.100.80.18 00:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Archived Difference
Those wishing to view the pre-Dec.12th version can find it in history, or by following this Link -- ilr  03:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

11/12/08 Update
So this skill has now just become the same as "Fall Back!" except that it's elite and doesn't end on an attack ... --kaheiyeh 03:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I was like... wth... So incredibly wasted... -- Nox Coma 04:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * i was say bad things about this skill... if it wasnt for the fact that it actually doesnt end on attack like fall back does... do its kinda... 50/50 SabreWolf 05:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty much the same deal as how Escape is Natural Stride without the "ends on hexes" clause. However, being able to bring both Fall Back and Incoming on a single Paragon could be nice in places like Alliance Battles... --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  05:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Never associated "Incoming!" with running away or charging before... 66.190.15.232 05:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously, the Paragon is tired of his allies never listening to his advice, and has switched to a "tell the opposing team we're coming" tactic. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  06:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * HAHAHA, i was thinking the same thing! -- SabreWolf 07:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This is just plain inferior to charge now. Charge lasts longer, costs less energy, and has less recharge. Self healing on this is really negligible as well.
 * Think outside the box for a minute. Picture A/W's again and two paragons spamming this elite shout. Ring any bells? Yea.. Legoway comeback? I see another buff-to-nerf session happening on this shout as well as many of the buffs they've come up with. --Ulterion 17:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They could have changed the name too to "run away!" for that monthy python trivia :P--213.100.146.85 03:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess it's supposed to mean "the enemies are coming, run for your lives" :S.--Soulforged 12:32, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Incoming! said the paragon to his enemy 68.202.136.112 17:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

12-11-2008 update
Now the skill discription doesnt match the skill icon.... Jonathan 11:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah it doesn't match the name too, when you shout "incoming!" it means your allies should defend themselves not to run away.--Soulforged 12:32, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Picture this: A group is marching, when suddenly, they spot a group of rangers on a hill. The paragon shouts this while the warriors engage the rangers. Paddymew 15:42, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ...except that most enemy groups in this game have a different mix of characters including their own Warriors and Nukers who will tear up your backline the instant your frontline abandons them to attack those Archers. The point here is: Incoming used to protect the WHOLE team from nasty spikes of every kind of damage.  Now it only heals a little bit of that damage back and only on Builds that are highly inefficient for "DPS" to begin with b/c they're running around chasing crap more than they're actually attacking it. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 22:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Still needs buff!
I'd rather have fall back and save my elite slot for something that's actually worth it. If the purpose of this skill was to make an elite fall back the duration should be raised into something like 5..12..15 and the recharge lowered to 20. - Johnnyrodrigues 16:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I look at it this way, it doesn't end so you can have your melees do their job appropriately running at a 33% speed while your caster can kite efficiently as well.--ShadowFog 18:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the functionality as it sits now is more aimed at pairing with MMs. Get the corpses into the fight faster while healing them to reduce the number of BoTM casts to keep them going.
 * Then why the hell don't our Heroes USE it that way then? The AI still thinks it's supposed to be applied like the old Incoming when it should really be alternated with FallBack.  And as for being an Elite version of Fallback just b/c it doesn't end so easily...that's the biggest load I've heard yet. ...And where's our PvE version?  This skill USED to have a PvP/PvE split. I dub it L.A.M.E. --> Needs to be Fixed in PvE by adding back in the 50% damage reduction or atleast 50% For the next 1..3 attacks like "Watch Yourself!" (PvP). -- ilr  23:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * PvE needs to be fixed in general. Its laughworthy at its current state, skill-less enough as it is. But I do agree this needs a slight buff, fall back is much more usefull as its not elite.  SniperFox [[Image:User_SniperFox_IconSmall.gif]] 11:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Crap was crap remained.

This is still a junk skill, even when used with Fall Back. If you could attack while moving, then this might have mentionable value. Who, or whose team, is going to run, stop and attack once, and then go back to running? Furthermore, who is going to need to do this so often that they're willing to spend an elite on it? Ninjatek 16:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's moderately difficult to kill someone who is kiting from you using this skill + Fall Back, as they cannot be stripped and they get free healing too. Still, skills should never be balanced "because of 1v1" Mori no Kinoko ni go Youjin [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|QQ]] 16:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

possible change to mimic old version

 * 10e 20recharge
 * Elite Shout
 * For 10seconds all party members have 1-10 dmg reduction against spells and projectile attacks.
 * Ends after 1-8-10 spells and projectile attacks.

worries about 8 paragon teams wouldnt matter since you will still take dmg. in order to get all 100 dmg reduction (r15) you would need to be hit 10 times within 10seconds.--Justice 19:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

After relooking at it, even if this were the potential change it would not be worthy of an elite when compared to party wide skills that heal +100 health. Perhaps some blocking vs projectile and spells.


 * Elite Shout
 * 10e 20recharge
 * For 10seconds all party members have 1-7-10 dmg reduction. Party members have a 50% chance to block projectile attacks. Ends after 1-2-3 sucessful blocks.

1-10dmg reduction vs any kind of dmg instead. Projectile blocking would be consistent with the name "incoming!" and the "ends after number of blocks" gives the option of two paragons chaining it, but foes are still capable of "removing" it. Only a very high rank in command will give the benefits of blocking and ultimately ensure a near full duration. r1-r11 are 1 block; r12-r14 are 2 blocks; r15+ are 3 blocks. This is to ensure that, unlike many paragon shouts, dedication into this skill's attribute is necessary to reap its rewards. Skills like "fallback!" come to mind where only ~r8 is needed to get 75% of the skill's rediculous benefits.--Justice 19:39, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I really liked it when it lasted 1-6 seconds and all party members take 50% less damage...Bive

Hero AI need fixing
I've found when puting this skill on a hero, that the hero rather then using this skill like fall back (which is exactly the same in most ways) and charge (again very similar), the hero instead tries to spam it in battle, like its old effect of reducing dmg. I suppose Anet forgot to change the hero AI to match it's new description?

Nah AI uses charge in battle aswell. They also like using Fallback in a fight too which pisses me off since its rarely recharged for running from mob to mob. Does the AI use it out of battle when running between mobs? if not then it is still old AI.--Justice 07:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like the old AI still. That should definitely be updated.--mucco 18:42, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, my heroes aren't using this out of battle, only in battle.--Xerxez 10:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Same problem with Kormir. She uses it in battle but never outside as heros and henchmen would use charge or fallback.--Justice 23:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Or...just tell them to use the skill and stop being lazy =].--Bive

Bive...i cant tell kormir to use this skill...not about being lazy at all--Justice 04:51, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Change of name + Make it elite worty
The name should be changed to "Here We Come!" (or something), and recharge time reduced to 15 seconds. this would make it a suburb elite--72.189.85.14 01:46, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree; I think that would make it an urban elite. Reducing the time too much would make it rural, though. 99.147.219.10 23:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Izzy as repeatedly stated that only the skill's name remains sacred when rebalancing, splitting, or functionality changes. --Falconeye 06:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And apparently brokenness. Every skill that's been changed in the past... oh... I 'd say at least nine months has become broken as fuck or utterly useless.  If the updates were 100% random, they would be as good or better than the current ones.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 11:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Origional skill
ok i used to be able to bring myself to use this skill... about a year ago where its effect was block granting. Anet has since sccrewed over that and made it little better than "Fall Back" labeled elite. Motion to move its effect back to Blocking where it might get used? --Xenktray 15:47, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * lollllllllllllllllllllllllllll Mini Me  [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 15:58, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You can go to the suggestion pages. Ideally I dont know if theres an official forum for them to read player's feedback but they keep a page about them, http://www.guildwars.com/community/default.php. Then again you can also make a suggestion at the suggestion pages right here in the wiki but it nice to hear some feedback right here in the page too. It would be nice if they could make a rework of this skill.--ShadowFog 17:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL, NO. Suggestion sections are fixing to get wiped and the Devs couldn't even decide if that was a good thing or not.  ...meanwhile in other news, the brilliant "not on mah wiki!" decision made by Wiki elite years back concerning the formation of PvX-wiki, has totally backfired as that wiki has been forced to merge back into Gamewikis (in essence).  In other words, if you have a GOOD REALISTIC suggestion, you might as well just spam it on this page AND as many of the Dev's pages as you can between now and when the suggestion-removal prerogative conclusively FAILS. (and it will).  IE: Save yourselves a bunch of time, I know I plan to. -- ilr  22:40, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ---PS: Incoming still sucks worse than EVAR!---
 * You have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going to discuss history, I suggest you learn it first.
 * By the way, "Incoming!" + "Fall Back!" + Vocal Was Sogolon is fairly popular these days. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 18:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

its effect was block granting Actually, its effect was damage reduction, but nice try. ~Shard  06:23, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Bah, humbug
So many people are hating this skill, but I love it. It's a non-removable IMS and heal that affects every single ally. This is superb in AB and competitive missions, as well as general pve. It's a well-balanced elite, and I like it as it is. | Nalana  Darkling  |  21:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In a 12 vs 12 is pretty great, even minions take advantage of this skill.--ShadowFog 00:19, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's hard to say goodbye to something that was so amazingly abusable (90% damage reduction all the time? Hell yes!), but I agree that it's not at all useless and does in fact see more usage after the change. Popularity doesn't necessarily mean something is good (wammos), but if ANet's goal was to encourage more widespread use of a niche elite, they succeeded here. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 07:02, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In big arenas this can be pretty useful since it's an unremovable speed boost for your whole team, both helping your backline kite and your frontline catch people (it's 33% too which is greater than the 25% offered by some popular IMSs such as Rush), plus you get health gain so it relieves some pressure from your healers. On the flip side, though, it is elite, so you're using up that slot (though there aren't all that many great paragon elites tbh) and it can only be kept up about a third of the time or so. So this is not gonna be the most popular elite ever as it is, but IMO it's fairly decent in the right situations. 86.10.9.66 17:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In other words: They're gonna PvE-NERF Fallback next to make this piece of shit look better in PvE?...Fabulous -- ilr  23:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

GOGOGO
10 energy 25 recharge

"for 10 seconds, allies in earshot have 1..8..10 damage reduction while attacking"

Or something like that.. It makes sense. 75.187.206.97 19:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Section Placement: UR DOING IT WRONG -- ilr  22:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * no. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * kekeke -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 07:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh okay, let's make paragay teams worse. Great idea, I'll call Izzy.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 19:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * IMO, it could work with a shorter duration, being moved to Leadership and with the added clause "...and while not under the effect of other shout or chant or echo". Erasculio 19:20, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * /facepalm -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 19:38, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Shame.jpg Paddymew 19:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It could work if it was in leadership with the added clause "...and while not a paragon primary." ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Half the mesmer skills are facepalms.
 * [[File:Wastrel's Worry (large).jpg]], [[File:Power Lock (large).jpg]], [[File:Shame (large).jpg]], [[File:Complicate (large).jpg]], [[File:Psychic Distraction (large).jpg]], Spirit of Failure (large).jpg]]. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png 23:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That or they're just faking a headache to avoid married-sex -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 00:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Minion Master?
One of the greatest problems with minions is that you have to stop and heal them all the time if you want to bring them from one fight to another. A paragon with this (leadership 10+ = free skill!) negates that. Paddymew 19:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't make me CopyPasta this over here and piss off a buncha a-rabs... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 20:00, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just blow up your minions and make more. Gogo AoTL. Karate   Jesus  20:04, 9 July 2009  (UTC)
 * w3rd! ...Beside, isn't constant reliance on MM's just to be useful an even bigger crutch than constant reliance on 3 Adren buffs and /War secondary just to spam SY? ...and it's just for convenience but without the PWN'ing power of "Imba"?  And in HardMode it's like "Hurry up and Die" b/c the instant they stop and fight it just turns into a Travesty (same goes for your Animal Pets) -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 20:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I pratically never visit GuildWiki, so I didn't know of your earlier comments... Oh, and I just thought it would be nice to bring some bombs along with you to the next fight, where, you know, there usually aren't any exploitable corpses yet. Woohoo! AotL! One bone horror saves the day... This isn't the paragon relying on the minion master or vice versa, it's them helping each other. A warrior can run around using healsig all day as long as he doesn't run into casters, but it would be better if he had a healer. Dependency fits in the 600/smite team. I just thought that you might as well bring those two heroes with you at the same time, if the choice comes up between that and pairing your MM with something retarded. Paddymew 09:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If all you manage to AotL-summon between every fight is one lousy minion, you're obviously DOING IT WRONG -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 22:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But if there are no enemy corpses left because the minions died while running from one mob to another, and I then kill my friends to AotL their corpses, I'm doing it right? Paddymew 05:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, this skill is pretty cool. When I capped this, it stayed on my bar from Kourna to Abbadon. Good skill if you know how to make a balanced party. Mind you I am a bit social from time to time and had real people with me as well as H/H. FleshAndFaith 20:40, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd like it to have a fun effect too, like All Allies in Earshot shadow step to a random nearby location and gain +50 armor for 3 seconds. 50% chance to block for 0..1..3..5 seconds if wielding a shield. That's be fun! 15e 20sr.120.153.34.62 12:17, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a cool idea and all for an elite antispike, but you interrupt your whole team. 99.238.104.105 22:44, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that ANet wouldn't allow for Ally-griefing on that scale. -- Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 23:59, 2 March 2011 (UTC)