Talk:Game updates/20080612

Pointless paragon changes
Why are paragon buffs always so pointless? Why do you always make some meaningless buff to a spear skill, like this pointless Barbed Spear buff? And what's with the retarded "Can't touch this!" buff? The problem wasn't cost alone. One problem was that you can't cast it on ally. The biggest problem of the skill WAS AND STILL IS the fact that IT DOESN'T DO ITS JOB! One of the most specialised skills in the game and it fails at the one small thing it's supposed to do. It doesn't stop touchers. "touches fail" doesn't incur a recharge so touchers can use plague touch to burn through fails in 2 seconds with minimal energy cost. I was even more appaled when a Signet of Midnight mesmer burned through this buff in 2 seconds for free. The only touch skill this skill counters is Shock(because exhaustion piles up), and it counters it way too hard. Is it that hard to change to Any of these would make this skill actually worthwhile against touch rangers and touch mobs and at the same time allow use of Shock without burying yourself into exhaustion. Pointless and absurd skill. Extremely specific counter that doesn't even do that. Also the new Antidote Signet does same as Remedy Signet except more. Same cast, same recharge, the former removes from 1 to 4 conditions and the latter removes 1 condition. I hope GW2 class and skill design and balancing is being done by someone else, who will do a less shoddy work of it. --Spura 16:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "touch skills against that ally take 200% longer to cast" or
 * "the next 1..4..5 times a foe uses a touch skill against target ally, that foe is knocked down" or
 * "the next 1..4..5 times a foe uses a touch skill against target ally, that skill takes 20 sec longer to recharge".

Agreed with some points but insults are never needed and never help. "Can't touch this!" is a very dangerous skill in the sence that buffing too much can have side effects in other areas (shock warriors are still useful) and obviously nerfing (not that it needs it) would render it a filler skill. Obviously 8 skills are competing for use on your skillbar and every skill needs to scream out "pick me!" or else they fall into redundancy land. This skill has uses in PvE and the drop in energy will be welcomed for many who use the build, however as far as general play use goes, it's a skill that won't see any use AT ALL (since it works on yourself only) unless it gets some changes.

Guild Wars 2 promises skillbar compression by skills having multiple uses depending on circumstances, this could either work really well in reducing redundant skills, or be executed poorly, time and Anet will tell. --Madda--86.13.248.50 18:59, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Mystic Regen
they Uber Buffed it now :o -- Silent Storm   21:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just for PvE :) De1m0s 21:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Actually a nice update. Though idk why Balthazar's Pendulum needed a nerf. New Rust, Lightning Touch, Antidote Signet and especially Soul Bind sound interesting. But regarding Soul Binds drawback, it's a really strange one. Possibly intended to prevent the abuse with Scourge Healing? (But i like the synergy between this and Healing Ball teams. :P) &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 21:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank You Anet!! --  Silverleaf  [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|User_talk:Silverleaf]] 22:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sweet job Anet!-- The Forsaken One  22:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Still waiting for an Ursan nerf, but this ain't a half bad update. - Warior Kronos [[Image:User_Warior_Kronos_Sig.jpg|18px|]] 22:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah thats what I'm still missing too. Still hope I see it in my life. -- Silent Storm  [[Image: User SilentStorm MySig.png|19px]] 22:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * IT doesn't matter, how the community wants Ursan to be nerfed. ANet is thinking otherwise, and I don't trust Regina when she talks about developers to split in opinions about Ursan. They want it to be so it will remain, IMHO. As for me, I will continue to play non-Ursan, cos that way is much more fun :) Going to UW with my friend today, gonna try our new idea... De1m0s 23:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm so happy T_T -  B  y  a  k  k  o   00:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The word "woot" comes to mind. Quite happy.  118.92.91.242 01:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This skill needed the nerf it had. No clue why they unbuffed it. Sigh. I don't know why I bother with wanting them to make a fair and balanced PvE experience where it's not just cookie cutters for everything. --141.158.122.254 03:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Pve was never balanced. People progress at different levels and take different times to learn the same thing. If PvE was like a constant GvG every 5 yards, I for one would stop playing immediatly! Gvg's can last for 20+min, consider how many mobs there are in PvE, I don't want to take 3hrs just to walk down the street! You can't balance PvE without making it stupidly hard, or nerfing skills to be stupidly useless, and then we'd all go back to taking minion master necromancers, just like in the old days. If you want a challenge, play hard mode with an empty skill bar, and let H&H do things for you without resorting to sabway.


 * I'm so happy. My derv doesn't do much PvP anyway, this is great! In fact, the MR nerf was the only update that pissed me off a while back. Good to see it shoved into it's former glory.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 21:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Well now....
Wow, interesting changes to the PVP skills, will make for some entertaining GVG's and HA battles, heck even AB! --Shaia 21:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Two Thumps up! Way up for...
Thats the ticket! Antidote Signet got buffed! No more Cripple for me.--ShadowFog 21:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's looking a little excessive now. They don't even need a fixed secondary to keep themselves free of conditions now.  --24.179.151.252 00:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe that was the idea, every archer style ranger always had to take Monk secondary for mending touch, maybe this'll change things (Even cheaper cost, shorter recharge, more difficult to interrupt but doesn't always remove two conditions). --Ckal Ktak 07:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's easier to interrupt. It may not be possible to interrupt it with a spell interrupt now, but that's silly to think about anyway. At times this get and should get interrupted is when Rangers are facing eachother when ganking. You don't defend your base with a Mes. (Well, [RIP] did for a long time, but they had PD on it :p) BlazeRick 12:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Great job izzy, now antidote signet >>> remedy singet and rangers are basically immune to conditions without any attribute or secondary profession investment. Because having a speed buff and a block stance in one skill wasn't good enough, right? --Spura 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

"::::Great job izzy, now antidote signet >>> remedy singet and rangers are basically immune to conditions without any attribute or secondary profession investment. Because having a speed buff and a block stance in one skill wasn't good enough, right? --Spura 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)" Glad to see your learning :D .Rangers have the ugliest armor arts in the game, ANET needs to make that up to them somehow! Also it indirectly makes warriors immune to conditions as well since any warrior with a predominate warrior bar would be insane not to fit this skill somewhere. --Madda--86.13.248.50 19:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Balthazar's Pendulum
Does anyone have any idea why this skill was nerfed? I thought it was one of the most useless Elite skills in the game. Erasculio 22:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * this 89.127.167.26 22:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I remember owning in RA alongside one of those, moving to TA and racking up quite a few wins. -- Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 22:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it completely negates Bull Strike and Shield Bash. Lightblade 22:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Are Ineptitude and Clumsiness going to get nerfed too? They both completely negate Bull's Strike. Invincible Rogue 22:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * they were nerfed 70.68.241.103 22:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Add to ^that^: Ineptitude and Clumsiness both last shorter time and cast slower. It's also an hex, so you'll know when you're hexed with it and stop attacking.  Pendulum is enchantment, there's no way you'll know whether the target is enchanted.  Not exactly "impossible", but you have to watch every target and remember who's enchanted with it.  So it's much harder to keep track than Ineptitude and Clumsiness.  Lightblade 02:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do people assume people can stop attacking in time to not trigger Inept/Clums? --71.229 07:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it's easy to do so, and people do so. Press your cancel action button and you'll stop attacking. BlazeRick 15:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Assault on the Shaman
Isn't this supposed to be Assault on the Stronghold (EotN book primary quest #4) ?? I see that the link directs to the appropriate page, but when I made a change in the listing (to make it much less confusing, as it refers to a quest/mission that doesn't exist) it was changed back because the text is being quoted verbatim from the ArenaNet Game Updates page. I'm wondering why you wouldn't want the correct information displayed over a simple typographical error at the source.Skie M 22:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because we like to gloat over Anet's mistakes :). Now seriously, is because we keep the information "as is provided", even if it's wrong. The notes section, sic tag, and proper links are used for correcting the data instead of changing the official released information.--Fighterdoken 22:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It has the correct information via the link destination, but every update page is copied verbatim (except for links and general wikification) from the official website -- it's a documentation thing. As long as the link is there, it should not really be a problem; although if you want to get it changed on the website itself, you want Emily Diehl. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, I see .. it's just a general documentation process ... to preserve it exactly as it was given even if it's confusing. It is, of course, good that it's linked to the correct page rather than to a non-existant page. :)  Skie M 22:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, you should see how hard was to keep Game updates/20080401 withouth changes XD.--Fighterdoken 22:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh God ... yes, the April Fool's Day joke update ... indeed, I saw so many people in Alliance Battles screaming for R10 Ursans for their parties... I never laughed so hard in my life, I think I broke a rib laughing that day.Skie M 22:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

About damn time they fixed that...Hyper Cutter 23:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Tournament rewards..
Then coming or, are we being hanged here? Dominator Matrix  22:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird I came here to ask the very same question. They should have been here this week. Maybe another update soon? --M age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]M ontu 22:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I got some of mine but not all of them (both accounts I mean - one i did, the other i didnt), and yes I was sure that I was gonna get some as I compared my predictions to the results. This seems to be quite common though with some people getting and some not --[[Image:User The Great Tomato sig.jpg|Tomato]] Tomato 22:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I heard something about the responsible staff member being ill so that's why the rewards are delayed. 91.83.26.248 22:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There slowing coming in :) Dominator Matrix  23:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have mine on both accounts,with this update. -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 00:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Underworld bug fix
Err what? We can't use the Reapers' teleportation before completing all 10 quests or what? -- (gem / talk) 22:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think what it means is once you have done all the quests you can teleport to any of the locations in UW without teleporting your team with you.  ''Reaper  [[Image:User_Reaper_Sig.jpg|19px]] 23:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's for those cases where groups leave the Ice King quest until last, and once the notice pops up saying you've completed all 10 quests, one person decides to warp to the chest, even though the dryders are still alive. Kokuou 00:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm ... this could make things difficult if they left a quest to last where half the party gets wiped .... trying to teleport the party to safety on something like "Unwelcome Guests" if the final chest is spawned wouldn't work. Skie M 01:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's probably an anti griefing measure, people can act like complete dicks and stop the party getting their loot, I've seen it done with the gift of griffons quest where they just run around getting the griffons to follow them instead of going the right way. --Ckal Ktak 07:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's to do with the problem where someone waits by the reaper until someone opens the chest.. then teleports constantly for 10 minutes until the drops become unassigned then takes them.. --[[Image:Lava spider.jpg|19px]] Spider 10:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I see, I see. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 11:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Wounding Strike
Is still a spammable unconditional deep wound. I haven't been in game yet but I'd guess people are still running it. :( ~Shard (talk) 23:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Overall a really nice update this time, but Izzy should have increased recharge on WS to 6. 83.171.174.254 00:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Why nerf WS? It's as good as it is now. Yes, it gives you spammable and unconditional DW with cover condition. But it doesn't deal any additional damage, even considering high scythe damage. And DW coupled with bleeding is not a problem for ones with block (as it will not even apply), as monks with Guardian. IMHO, Eremite's and Mystic were nerfed for good reason, but there is no reason in nerfing WS. De1m0s 00:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

WS was not bad before, but it was only good in pve. Now WS has spike potential in pvp, why nerf it?--Ra ph  Tal ky  01:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It does +100 damage. Learn 2 know what deep wound does. 72.235.48.41 06:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Technically it only cause +100 damage when it's inflicting the condition. After Deep Wound is applied, the skill does 0 damage, so your both correct. And with the nerf/s to Avatar of Grenth Dervishes are lucky to still be in GvG's AT ALL.--86.13.248.50 09:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure Wounding Strike vastly outperforms Grenth, and has ever since Grenth's original nerf months and months ago.
 * Wounding Strike is overpowered. There's no other way of looking at it. Deep Wound is the single most powerful condition in the game - why do you think Eviscerate has a hefty 8 adren cost? The tiny bit of bonus damage? Yeah, right. Wounding matches the bonus damage via soh and conjure, is about 5 times more spammable, and comes with a cover condition. Oh, and of course, scythes hit aoe. The only reason dervishes haven't completely replaced Warriors is the lack of knocklock (and, to a lesser extent, armor).
 * Dervs are bad for the game. Reduce base scythe damage, bump recharge on all energy-based deep wound skills to 10 seconds at least, and the game will finally start to move away from melee-driven kills. Warriors would still need to be tweaked, but scythes are the cause of most of the game's balance problems. - Auron 09:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You said it yourself - Dervishes have high damage AoE weapon and have an elite with spammable DW with cover condition, but lack high armor and knockdowns. So tell me, why are they imbalanced? If you play PvE with scythe, you should not be complaining about scythe hitting three targets, and if you play PvP, you must know by now that no team with even half of brain will clump together to be hit by AoE (have you seen Meteor Shower in GvG recently? No?). And even with DW applied and constantly renewed on your ally he still can fight, kite, cast - under protection of monk. With DW he has 4/5 health to be taken from him, there is no easy way to do so. Good monk will recognize melee spike by DW on ally and protect him. Oh, wait a sec - why not kill Derv, as he still has only 70 AL? He can't wear a shield with +16 AL and doesn't have additional +20 AL vs Physical, he is just +10 AL above squishy. All of above text was IMHO De1m0s 03:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wounding Strike vastly outperforms skills like Eviscerate or Cruel spear. --Spura 09:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * @De1m0s, Yeah lets kill the dervish only problem is there 3 of them, with on them SoH ramming DW up your team, and while your trying to kill their frontline, their midline and their backline are laughing at you. 68.93.105.103 14:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just seen P/W spamming DW, without Eviscerate or Cruel Spear. It still can be blocked, it is elite... WS+Eremite's+Mystic - good spike. Pre- or just Prot - SoA, anyone? IP, just trick enemy monks into healing/protting wrong target and spike. De1m0s 01:42, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

BECAUSE. Its not spike potential, it IS a spike. a scyhe will hit anywhere from 60-80 on a squishy, and then DW+Bleed? Bleed covering DW? thats just madness. Before, you had to use Twin Moon Sweep or Irresistible Sweep to get it ready, then it was controlled. all pro players know DW is the best condition in the game. being able to throw that around undermines Axes, and overall undermines the game. if its gonna be this way, make the recharge something capable of managing for a monk, at least. 5? Phill Gaston 11:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Signets
izzy managed to kill i think every possible signet build just to kill one that was particulary gay, gg --Cursed Angel  01:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * QQ moar pl0x--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig.png|19px]]Ra ph  Tal <font color="Orange">ky  01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Cursed Angel thinks hexway is good, and echo WoD should be buffed. Don't mind him.  He's just sad because his precious mes got nerfed.  Lightblade 02:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * coudlnt of put it any better myself :D--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig.png|19px]]<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  02:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Didn't have to hit Mantra of Inscriptions...--74.61.209.219 02:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

erm....did u read the last couple of posts? Unfortunately, we have to deal with it--<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  02:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Er no I dont pay attention to people that troll with QQ moar pl0x, they're just idiots unpleasant.--74.61.209.219 02:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

ok.....................QQ moar is quite common to say...and dont call me a troll, youve never seen my other edits--<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  03:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't care much about your other edits when QQ moar is common to say among trolls. Thxbai.--74.61.209.219 03:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * uhm.....what? if saying QQ moar is common among trolls, then quite of few people in GWW are trolls...--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig.png|19px]]<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  03:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * People, please... QQ moar. This isn't the place to scream "j'accuse!". It's about Signets. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 03:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * wait im confused..are you telling us QQ moar? or are you saying QQ moar (as in "QQ moar? pathetic...)--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig.png|19px]]<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  03:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Izzy couldn't balance a skill right is his life depended on it... Toa Hahli 13:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * back to the issue, many signets had their recharge balanced out by this skill, the builds that used signets almost always had this around. izzy hit the heart of signet builds just to get rid of one build, and it isn't the first time shit like this happens. just felt like QQing moar as u begged me to. --<font color="Black">Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 15:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Soul Bind
Hmmm, anyone else notice the flaw? the only difference between this and Scourge Healing is this has a 1 second cast time, and scourge is 2 seconds. For an elite skill, a 1 second shorter casting time is a minor point, even more so when you compare the damage on both skills, which is also closely linked. At 10 energy sould bind either needs to inflict Deep Wound (20% less healing + 20% less health) OR have it's energy reduced to 5 energy. I think this was an oversight on Izzy's part, since the elite performs almost identical to it's non elite counterpart. Yes I know one is in the smiting tree that belongs to monks and one is in the curses tree that belongs to necromancers but the skills are at this moment in time, practically the same, with one not costing you an elite slot.

My personal suggestion is to add deep wound to it, or reduce energy to 5, or reduce energy to 1 and sacrifice health, or make this skill affect nearby foes (PvE Usage then), or change functionality, again.


 * You mean...add deep wound to the hexed target or the healer? Cus that + Spoil Victor will just kill a full health Infuser.  Lightblade 02:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The major difference is Proffession and Attribute location--74.61.209.219 02:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 second >>>>> 2 second. I know mathematically that is incorrect, but that is how much greater 1 second is that 2 seconds for cast times. 2 seconds is lolinterrupted, 1 second is possible to slip through with half cast sets or casting when the interrupter is looking elsewhere. At 5 recharge, this is actually pretty nasty. Misery 07:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Interrupted by what? Let's be realistic here, in PvE 3/4 spells can get interuppted by AI in both normal and hard mode, 5 seconds = 3/4 seconds when dealing with AI who can interrupt with godlike reflexes, in PvP, this is a situational skill at best, unless someone is healing, this skill does nothing. Scourge Healing has a 5 second recast, and costs 10 energy as well, apart from a 2 second cast time the skills are almost identical, yet one is elite, the other isn't. If you want to avoid a 2 second cast time, bring scourge on a mesmer, and enjoy being able to bring an elite skill as well.

In GvG such a hex would NEED to covered, greatly, which means that 1 skill is actually taking up more space than 1 skill because you need 2-3 more hexes to keep it from being removed prematurely, also Remove Hex and Holy Veil are 5 energy, Soul Bind is 10. In a war of attrition, the necromancer would lose. If your going for hex pressure, it's easier for the enemy just to split, and harder for you to do the same in a hex pressure team so why make life hard when melee pressure is so much more flexable? Iggy's/anets attempt to get necromancer into GvG outside of novelty builds is going to be a long and hard fight, so skills like Soul Bind need to offer something the other proffesions can't mimic (Wail of Doom comes to mind as does Atrophy) or that would greatly help other proffesions. As it stands, Scourge Healing is still a better choice (just bring a necro/monk if you want the skill that badly) as is Wail of Doom so soul bind is not much better off now, than it was before. At least before it gave Knockdown.

And as for the Deep Wound I meant to say that should be applied to the target, deep wound on demand is a powerful thing (Wounding Stike anyone?) and with a penalty for healing the target on top, I could see it being very useful in a pressure team.

I would also like to point out that both Scourge Healing and Soul Bind only affect skills with "healing" effects, and not skills with "gain health" in it's effect, neither are to be confused with "gain X additional health", gain health is still healing but for some reason has different mechanics. I would like to see "gain health" removed from the game and/or converted to "healing" since it seems assigned to some skills almost at random, and makes little sence, when the end result is the same (target is healed).

Also, if your looking to punish a healer, Spoil Victor is better in almost every which way since you can control the target of the skill (the healer presumably) when as in Soul Bind as it is now, and also Scourge Healing you assume who the target of the damage will be, however you cannot say this skill WILL affect that target 100% because like Diversion and Backfire the skill does nothing if no action is taken, although admittedly 30 seconds is a long time to do nothing/not heal it still highlights the flaw with this skill in it's current state and also who outside of being a counter to Heal Party ele's, why Scourge Healing has stopped being used in GvG.

I have however found a use for Soul Bind, it's great against Heal as One packmasters in HvH, they have 0 hex removal and the monk is usually only able to remove 1 hex.

And before someone mentions it, because i've heard it said many times before, no not all skills are situational! Sever Artery can be lolspammed on anything except the undead, and so can Deep Wound causing skills. Situational skills are great for scissor/paper/rock meta game fights, non situational skills are good at ALL times, why do you thing warrior is such a popular class? And assassin? The less thinking/pre planning involved, the better--86.13.248.50 08:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice wall of text. Scourge Healing is horrible, taking a fast cast mesmer with smiting prayers spec to cast Scourge Healing is likewise horrible. Soul Bind could be dropped on a standard anti-melee necro bar with no attribute changes and spread across the entire enemy team in TA with cover hex, look at the duration and recharge. Scourge Healing does not fit in to any build ever. Spoil Victor doesn't punish self healing and is in Blood Magic so makes attributes awkward, but it is a nice skill. WoD is still better, but why would you run any necro elite over that at the moment? Soul Bind has moved into semi-viable in TA. Misery 13:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This + Heal Party or Light of Deliverance = gg monk? --76.2.225.159 00:29, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

My bad, I forgot TA even exists anymore. Has uses there obviously, however I'd be very surprised if you could justify this skill still being elite at present. Just because necromancer has it, doesn't make it worthy of elite, Lingering curse helps with spiking targets in TA, what use does this have apart from monk pressure? If that's what it's for, it should have it's energy cost reduced as I said before, or made a health sacc~ skill. Also Soul bind vs heal party/LoD doesn't = dead monk, it negates some of the healing the monk would recieve, but not much else. IF this skill triggers on healing from divine favor then that's a WHOLE different kettle of fish because rev~ of fortune is a popular monk skill and divine favor on TA/RA/HoH monks is usually low. --Madda--86.13.248.50 19:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Barbed Arrows
Finally.--74.61.209.219 03:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * New and Improved: Instead of just getting interrupted, it can actually get you killed! Apply Poison laughs even harder now. Arshay Duskbrow 06:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You aren't going to get killed by using this preperation unless you use it in a really stupid place when everyone's targeting you. That's like using healing signet as a spike heal. --Ckal Ktak 07:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

At no point as far as I know has Iggy/anet told us why they hate this skill so much. It's probably the only preperation with this kind of restriction on it and to be honest, apart from Poison Tip Signet and Poison Arrow, most rangers wouldn't be causing Bleeding and Poison at the same time anyway. Signet is on a 6 second recast and arrow is an elite. Heal as One packmasters can cause both conditions, easily (Barbed Spear laughs so hard now, this being it's second buff) it makes little sence to do it as a ranger/nothing. Why not just let it cause bleeding without any silly penalty and be done with it? Or better yet, make it cause bleeding per attack ala Apply Poison? Would be nice if poison arrow was unblockable, then we could get some condition spam going again in GvG's --86.13.248.50 08:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Iggy Pop? 124.169.186.105 09:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Errr....Screaming shot anyone? (i'm aware of it's pitfalls) just saying that if you wanna cause poison and bleeding in 1 go, that seems to be the easiest ranger only way to go about it. -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 13:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Antidote Signet
While Antidote Signet was buffed, a little imbalance has occured. Remedy Signet has the same casting time and recharge but does only cure one condition instead of curing multiple conditions and a conditional one. I would suggest binding it to leadership and then allowing conditions to be cured. I'm suprised that they didn't see this one.  SniperFox  11:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Or they didn't see any reason to give the party support class self-cleansing on par with the solo class'. Just a thought. --76.25.197.215 11:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * party support class? What party support? You mean "Cruel Spear attacker class that can't function if less than 5 allies in earshot" class? Rangers now have within their own profession with 2 skills, Natural Stride and Antidote Signet, stong condition removal, block skill and run boost skill. --Spura 16:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah but their main partywide condition removal skill is Cautery Signet, which already turns every condition into a single one. It would give combat paragons a nice opportunity to block the effects of covered blind. Although I think both Antidote Signet and Remedy Signet could both use a recharge increase. I still think this is a slight imbalance due to the fact that the skills are exactly the same apart from the range of conditions they cure. Perhaps it would be a nice idea to make it the opposite of antidote signet and cure bleeding, crippled and one condition.  SniperFox [[Image:User_SniperFox_IconSmall.gif]] 11:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Why are you bringing Cautery Signet into this? You can't compare Cautery Singet with Antidote Signet, Cautery is elite(with crappy recharge and cast time) --Spura 16:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

this could be great for w/r no more need for 5 energy mending touch...and with the recent buff to symbolic strike maybe warriors can have some kind of signet build with heal signet antidote signet...and other signets. have fun. 216.218.130.112 12:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * this is a great change for melee since it removes blindness even in a stack. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 13:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It removed blindness even in a stack before too.78.2.11.114 15:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

odd points
hmmm.... i have 2 accounts and yet both of them got a weird number of points. According to the site you can only get a multiple of 25. However on 1 account i got 55 and on the the other i got 30 (I guessed terribly this month but i missed the deadline for gvg predictions so it was actually alright for just 1v1 predictions)Anyhoo, still my point rewards we're odd. anyone else encountered this. Not complaining, just a bit confused by it. -- Salome 13:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

lol, double tourny points?--<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  13:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL, yeh Raph, thats what I thought too. However a double of a multiple must still stay within the confines of being a multiple of that number. E.G. 200 X 2 = 400, 25 X 2 = 50 etc...., thus still a multiple of 25. It shouldn't cause a random 10 points here and 5 points there to just appear. Again not complaining as i think i got bonus points so yay me. -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 13:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

theres probably a small glitch, but if you're getting more than normal, i see no reason to fix it :P--<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  13:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * AGREED! Seems to just be a 5 point bonus anyway. which is 1 key so yay!!!!!! I made 85k in like 5 mins, was so much fun! Don't understand why people keep offering ecto trades for keys though. As an ecto isn't worth 5k, hasn't been for ages. Maybe if you buy them from the merc occasionally, but who does that anymore? Merc shopping for none-cheap things = ftl -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 13:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I got 75 points which I found odd, since by all my calculations I should've received 100. But then about 3 or 4 hours later I was in the Temple of Balth again and accidentally clicked on the Xunlai guy and he gave me 55 more. YAY!!! Which is 130 points overall, so not a multiple of 25 btw. 78.2.11.114 15:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I should have got about 75 or so I thought, but when I checked I got 130!!!! It was nuts, I got my keys and sold em for about 150k I got my destroyer weapons to fill my HoM and I'm working on getting my Dragon Gloves now! I loved this reward month! [[Image:Dervish-tango-icon-20.png|19px]] <font face="Papyrus">Devi Talk 23:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * im sorry but this hole you get extra reward points thing just adds to how pointless the system is, reward points should be given out like bath faction, or when you win ha or when you get like 10 glad points. not just for guessing, it completly defaces the elite armors and skins. i know you have to have a lot of them but still.75.165.115.252 09:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Back in the Saddle
If you'll pardon the shameless Aerosmith reference, I'm quite proud of ANet recently. I was worried over the past year that it was impossible to please both PvE and PvP crowds, and I feared that ANet had lost its focus. If the last few patches are any indication, then GuildWars is back on its way up. All that's left is to modify some consumables and PvE-only skills so that they're still functional but aren't game-breakingly good anymore. On a side note, thank you, THANK YOU for fixing the frackin' Siege Devourers. That mission is now loads of fun. KrelusDerian

yeah, i hated that bug, and theres nothin wrong with Aerosmith :P--<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  13:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

"For Great Justice!"
I dont get it, whats the difference between +1 adren and +100% adren? Isnt the same?-- The Forsaken One  14:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * For a normal hit, yes. But, if you were to use something like dragon slash with (15?) swordsmanship while under FGJ, it's now 5+1 adrenaline rather than 5+5 adrenaline.  Noelahg 15:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it basically destroys the Dragon Slash warrior spam build, although this was already easy to counter. --Shaia 19:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * was there relay a need to change this? changes like this make it seem like izzy is picking random skills and being like him lets change this so we can say 'hey were still making updates and changes to guildwars 1'75.165.115.252 21:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * i see it neccessary, dont grief over one or two nerfs if many others were buffed or at least givent back their effectiveness.--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig.png|19px]]<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  22:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * i would agree with you but izzy has been doing a lot of what i would call unnecessary Nerfs and buffs.75.165.115.252 09:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This breaks a number of builds. For instance I had a build that used FGJ! with Grapple + "I meant to do that" to instantly charge Backbreaker. So I have Grapple+"I meant to do that !"+Backbreaker+Pulverizing smash+Heavy blow then Grapple+....Nearly endless KD chain as long as FGJ holds. I combined with IASand ended up killing whole bunch of monks in AB without them getting a spell off. --Spura 14:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Could shit like that possibly have been why Izzy nerfed it? I wonder, I really do. --76.25.197.215 05:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah...doubt it...I was the only one running this build, it's a pretty gimmick one, a bit of blocking prots on target and it really ruins the chain. The nerf affects combos FGJ+dragon slash, FGJ+Lion's Comfort, FGJ+Enraging Charge, FGJ+Moekele smash, which were far more commonly used. --Spura 08:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "Could shit like that ..." --76.25.197.215 09:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh right...Well I really don't know what made them do it. Above I've listed the possible combos I can think off the top of my head, but I've never even seen FGJ in GvG lately, much less seeing any popularity, so the change is a very surprising one. One combo that did get buffed by it is Focused Anger + FGJ, which stack now, for easy 4 or even 5 (if you go 15 leadership) adrenaline per hit. However, paragon has no real use for that much adrenaline. The only adren attack worth spamming is Blazing Spear which is 6 adren, and no other spamable adrenaline skills exist in the profession, that would warrant that combo. --Spura 11:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

i use a variant that uses crippling strike whenever i AB with a war. Good for taking out those pesky runners--<font color="Blue">Ra <font color="Orange">ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  15:33, 15 June 2008 (UTC) This also counters the ability to go into battle fully charge of adrenaline by using Signet_of_Aggression + "For Great Justice!" --Waldir

Focused anger and FGJ ALWAYS stacked. It hasn't been "buffed", infact it's been nerfed like all FGJ builds. However the combo works as normal in PvE so noones crying. In PvE it powers "Save Yourselves" however each skill on its own it used one after the other, using them together makes SY perma on for 20(30) seconds but then your shooting blanks. Obviously save yourselves is not used in PvP (Cannot be used), so the nerf affects noone. Probably the best example of the PvP/PvE change.