Talk:Signet of Creation

The signet gives a +7regen over 30seconds but has a 10sec recharge. Does the regen stack if the signet si recast during the 30sec period ?
 * No skill stack with itself. It's how the engine works. However, a reuse will make it affect creatures created in that 12 sec window. Backsword 13:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Skill does not stack itself.. Otherwise u could have a full army of undying minions for you can reapply the skill every 10s and every creature in earshot will gain +7 regen for an unlimited amount of time... Try it you'll see that your minions die a lil' bit after the 3rd cast... Aartist21 18:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * put this on a jagged bones necro(x2), disable it, then use it when in large battle and run, uve just killed a large mob in 30 sec, with only minions, and survivors of the the death nova bomb, will be killed by the jaggeds, enjoy your drops, Shadowshock 20:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

You also can use a five man team, 2 bip sacrificers, (to quickly generate corpes for minions) and 2 Jagged bones necros, and a Rezmer, bam, bips kill sellf till mms have 20 minions, let them cast death nova and jagged bones, while rezmer spams heal area, activate signet of creation, agrro mob, run, singet runs out, and all the miniions die at effectilvly the same time causing a massive AOE spike capable of killing very large mobs Shadowshock 20:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency
Normal description: "All Spirits and animated creatures (...)" concise description: "Affects spirits and allied undead servants (...)" Given the note about skill potential usage, I guess normal description is the correct one. But anyway those descriptions are definitely inconsistent. Jarkus4 21:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We tested this in a scrimmage and it does affect hostile spirits. Strange, but true ... Clan Yumemiru 14:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Creation vs Signet of Binding
Which is better? Attribute aside, lets do a comparison of Signet of Creation and Signet of Binding at level 12.

At level 12, Signet of Binding adds +170 life. At level 12, Signet of Creation adds +6 life regeneration which implies up to +360 life, making Signet of Creation the obvious winner for health gain if your spirit lasts the full 30 seconds.

However likely, you will be using on spirits which have their health reduced (and to be replenished to maintain the effect). For Signet of Creation to be worth using, it'd have to stay alive a full 14.17 seconds (amount of time it takes for +6 life to surpass 170 life).

For Rejuvenation at level 15, if more than two allies are under the effect of Rejuvenation (keep in mind it only affects allies with less than 100% health), then it means Rejuvenation would die sooner than 15 seconds, making Signet of Binding a better choice in most situations.

For Agony at level 15, the mechanics are exactly the same as for Rejuvenation, except that it affects all foes, not only those with less than 100% health, meaning Signet of Binding is best.

All other spirits either don't expire unless killed or lie in Communing, which would almost certainly be a better pick to use Signet of Binding for its attribute points already in it (or a combination if desired).

This would make Signet of Binding the obvious pick for any Binding Ritual except you have to consider that Signet of Creation utilizes Spawning Power, increasing the life of all spirits created. At level 12, Spawning power increases the life of a spirit by 48%.

Looking back at Rejuvenation at level 15, Rejuvenation would have 474 life (rather than 320 life with 0 in Spawning Power), meaning it could support more players for more amount of time. If three allies are under the effect of Rejuvenation at any given moment, it makes the duration last around 15 seconds, meaning Signet of Creation would be more worthwhile for supporting three players or less. Beyond three, the duration lasts less than 15 seconds and would be better suited for Signet of Binding.

--Eyekwah 15:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Relation
I noticed the skill Signet of Ghostly Might was not under the 'related skills' section, so I'm going to put it in. The way I'm thinking they're related is they're both Ritualist skills that cause x effect to target allied spirit(s)/minions(s) for y seconds, and then cause death. Feel free to remove it if you feel they aren't related, but please explain why if you have. - WeHeartKatamari 20:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * put this on a jagged bones necro(x2), disable it, then use it when in large battle and run, uve just killed a large mob in 30 sec, with only minions, and survivors of the the death nova bomb, will be killed by the jaggeds, enjoy your drops, Shadowshock 20:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

You also can use a five man team, 2 bip sacrificers, (to quickly generate corpes for minions) and 2 Jagged bones necros, and a Rezmer, bam, bips kill sellf till mms have 20 minions, let them cast death nova and jagged bones, while rezmer spams heal area, activate signet of creation, agrro mob, run, singet runs out, and all the miniions die at effectilvly the same time causing a massive AOE spike capable of killing very large mobs Shadowshock 20:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Heroes and SoC
I tried a hero MM build with Razah but he doesnt seem to use signet of creation at all. --Starfall 02:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Force him to. 70.126.107.48 18:45, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I tried it also on Razah and he doesn't use it at all,it must be an error or something...?

Animation
This one doesn't have this annoying signet symbol above head:> --Bargaw 12:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Renewable?
If I re-activate this signet before the duratione expires, will it reset the thirty seconds? If so, then one would be able to have an army of minions running about with seven health regeneration! That sounds pretty cool to me. - AraAra 22:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * although the natural degen goes through that too. I was just gonna ask here the same thing. -- -Ch  ao  s-   14:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Pointless?
With most Binding Rituals casting in 3 quarters of a second, which is pretty instant for me, is this skill really needed? -- smøni 05:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It'll still be possible for the Player or AI to be interrupted which is especially true in HM, and casting times could be slowed due to a hex/other effect. I've had 3/4 of a second casting times interrupted.  000.00.00.00  06:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Somehow I don't think it would justify taking the skill, still. I would vote yes to the question of pointless. Jarus 13:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Its works also on spells great:D
 * Good for spells, as many rit spells take longer than a second to cast, but this bug'll get sorted out, or hopefully, change to only affect rit spells :D -- smøni 15:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This skill did not need rework. They just needed to increase health regeneration and increase duration of effect and you can use this on stuff like union and shelter. With the new change, it is really pointless to use this to take up a space on your skillbar. --Shadetz X 01:34, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They probably changed it because the old version would have been a lot stronger with the now fast casting spirits since you could almost instantly rebuild your spirit wall as soon as this skill kills them if you time your recharges right. As to why they made it near useless, they probably did not want to worry about making it too strong with whatever revamp they might have done to it along with all the other ritualist changes that haven't had time to be evaluated yet.

Put me down in the category of thinking this skill is largely pointless with the Ritualist buffs. While I understand that 0.75 can still be interrupted by AI enemies, most smart Ritualists will still put their spirits down BEFORE starting combat anyway, so it's largely a non-issue. Personally, I'd rather see Signet of Creation be reworked to something like:

"For 30 seconds, your next 1...3 Binding or Nature Rituals cost 1...15 less energy (minimum 1 energy)."

This would make it a perfect e-management skill for Spirit Summoners who don't necessarily want to dip into Channeling Magic for Spirit Siphon, and since it only works on Binding Rituals (and is in Spawning Power), there's no risk of it being abused by other professions. - Zaxares 02:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

This... works wonders with Meteor Shower. Paddymew 11:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Since ritualist skills are not affected by most interruptions and hexes that affect skill activation, and since most of them already cast at 1/4 or 1 second, it should be changed to affect other creation spells: Minions, Nature spirits and asura summons. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 23:39, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

sept 17/09 update
going to put a note stating that it is instant cast but can't do it while in the middle of another action and will be queued if you are casting another skill--BobbyT 16:34, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The cast time will actually be reduced to 1/4s, iirc. -- -Ch  ao  s-   21:31, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what the update supposedly fixed... unless you mean that they didn't change it at all. Glyph of Sacrifice and Glyph of Essence also need the change. -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  21:39, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's game mechanics that they can't influence. Only (skills) shouts and stances can have real instant activation. -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:53, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

the rituals don't have cast time but aftercast delay and can't be activated midcast, much like Protector's Defense and Angelic Protection.--BobbyT 00:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Spells can have no cast time. There's no reason why the glyphs shouldn't be able to work. -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  17:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

LOL
PVE and PVP skill should be switched would make SOOO MUCH sense. 72.81.64.221 19:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I tend to niggerflame anons and mostly everyone, but you're right.
 * The PvE variant is since before they reduced spirit cast times in PvE. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 13:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * PvE variant and reducec spirit cast times was introduced in the same update. --79.185.223.74 16:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Summoned Creatues
With the new update, the skill description says '...for every summoned creature you control.' As far as I can tell, this is accurate for minions and spirits, but not for Asura summons or Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support. Darien Jarkeld 19:06, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't it be? -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 19:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I would guess it is a bug, since other summoned creature skills like Boon of Creation and Explosive growth trigger for the PvE summons.  I was just wondering if we should make a note on the skill. Darien Jarkeld 21:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You expressed yourself a little badly. If it doesn't work for those then type it there. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 21:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it's because you don't actually "control" the Asura, Ebon Vanguard, and even Summoning Stone summons. You might create them, but you don't control them. -C2Talon 00:10, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

This skill is not like Blessed Signet at all
If this skill is like Blessed Signet, then Blessed Signet is like Signet of Spirits (PvP), Spirit Channeling, et al, which it's not. -C2Talon 01:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really, since those have a single condition (kinda like holding an item conditions). Blessed signet triggers for each maintained enchant, as this triggers for each spirit controlled. --JonTheMon 01:57, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * So, an energy management skill with variable gain and nothing else in common is more related than things that give you energy when you have summoned creatures within earshot. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. -C2Talon 02:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Signet that gives variable gain. That's somewhat significant. And as it's a ritualist skill, there are a lot of effects related to having a spirit in range, so it's related, but to too much. Also, edit war less. --JonTheMon 02:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

All of these "related skills" should be removed. Those belong here, not in the related skills of this page. A weak case for Blessed Signet can be made because of the x energy per y (still not worth adding imo), but definitely not one for OoS/SoS/SC/SS. – Emmett  06:48, 28 February 2010 (UTC)