User talk:Mtew/archives

Structure mess up. Attn: GWW Administrators
I am probably messing up the intended WIKI structure. In addition to the standard discussion page, I want a separate discussion page where I can move topics that are generating more heat than light. Also, before I create the Archive page, could you please check the reference to make sure it is appropriate. Either correct it or tell me how to fix it if needed. Mtew 15:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've just noticed the page structure you've created. I'll sort it out for you.  If you want sub-pages or sub-talk-pages you need to separate them with a /  For instance User:mtew/Templates.  If you have any questions or would like to discuss, please feel free to ask me on my talk page, or ask any of the helpers, check out the Help center, or post a question on the Help:Ask a wiki question page. Thanks!- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 18:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, I just noticed you've created User:Mtew:Main, this should be User:Mtew/Main. I have moved it to the correct location for you.  You may want to start creating sub-user-pages correctly (using the slash / ) because the incorrect pages will eventually get deleted.  Also, correctly created subpages also create a helpful link back to parent page(s) at the top.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 18:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The page you created at User:Mtew:Main:PPreSearing was moved to User:Mtew/Main/PPreSearing, by the way. Same for User:Mtew/Main/GrossRegions --Fighterdoken 20:24, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'd noticed that I was using ':' where I should have used '/' and was going to fix it, but you beat me to it. Mtew 06:58, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Deletions
If you wish pages deleted, you need to tag them with delete not just put notes in your edit summary for someone to delete the originals. We have no idea what the originals are. Thanks! -- Wyn 20:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Understood - Small misunderstanding - I wanted the redirecting pages deleted. Sorry if I did not make that clear. mtew 00:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Again, just tag them for deletion and they will be taken care of :D --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 01:42, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Sandbox subpages
Please put your temporary stuff in your own sandbox, not on the wiki sandbox or subpages. Simply create User:Mtew/sandbox and whatever subpages you need. -- Wyn 06:56, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's been pointed out to you numerous times that your project really belongs in your userspace, rather than in mainspace (main template space mostly). You would not get any of this flack (except regarding RC spam) if you would listen to us and put it all in your userspace. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 07:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * This is something I have asked poke about. I put it in the public sandbox because that seemed to be the right place for something like that.  In other words, I took the text on that page at its word.  I will clean it out myself fairly soon.  It's not a 'project'; it's a test, just like the page says.  BTW RC? mtew 08:42, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Recent Changes. What the public sandbox is for is testing a line or two of code, or a table to see if it is going to look the way you want before putting it on an article.... for long term testing (asking for a week for deletion of a sandbox subpage) that should be done on your userspace sandbox... there is no difference between the two, except no one but YOU uses your sandbox, where the entire wiki community uses the public one. I personally have 20 sandbox pages for various projects I'm working on.... and no one, absolutely no one, bugs me about any of it. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 08:46, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * RC: Ah, the recent flamage, OK. Thanks for clarifying.


 * But this is stuff I'd like Poke to poke around with. As you said, user space pages are supposed to be (semi) private, with the usual 'look but don't touch' rules.  This is a piece of junk that I'd like to get working and anybody who can help with it is welcome to tinker.  ('Junk' in the sense that breaking it would be no big deal.  Also, it will be trashed PDQ &mdash; when it shows how to do what is needed or when it shows that the problem is unsolvable.)  mtew 09:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you put it all in your userspace, poke or anyone you invite to play with it can, but it will be restricted to who you ask to help you... rather than being available to the entire community. Just like your templates. While you are developing/testing stuff keeping it in your userspace eliminates unwanted interference from the community (there are policies regarding making unwanted edits to userspace)... putting it in the public mainspace is only inviting it since anyone and everyone is welcome to edit mainspace (and also decide something is unnecessary and throw delete tags on it). Once it is all working the way you wish, you can move it to the mainspaces if that is appropriate... this is what we've been trying to tell you since you started this. No one is saying don't do it, we are just saying do it in your userspace. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 09:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, since few of us really grok what you are actually trying to accomplish (besides poke) few of us are in a position to "tinker". --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 09:20, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, there's serendipity. While I believe Poke can help, someone else, unknown to the three of us, might be able to add something useful. Note that I didn't argue about the tag, just asked that the three days, which policy says is a MINIMUM, be stretched a little. mtew 09:34, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Recreation?
You seem to be re-creating lots of already adequately completed pages within your user space. For instance your User:Mtew/Main/PPreSearing is similar to the actual page Ascalon (pre-Searing). I'm not saying its a bad thing, I'm just interested as to why you are doing this?- TheRave (talk) 20:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Why? Because I had trouble finding the information while actually playing the game.  I created an Open Office document with a bunch of tables where the information was arranged the way I found most useful.  I also found a few small errors.  I'm not inclined to mess up the main wicki without getting other peoples opinion on what to replace it with.  In fact, I think that most of the existing stuff serves a useful purpose and should remain.  That means there needs to be something for me and you all to look at and mess around with before inflicting it on other people.  I figure that personal pages are that kind of place.  Mtew 07:13, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The Original page has been split into a number of pieces under User:mtew/Projects/RegSum/Prophecies/Ascalon (pre-Searing). mtew 00:51, 25 December 2008 (UTC)




 * Hey TheRave, and anybody else interested! I've got most of the information transfered.  Please look at it and tell me what you think. mtew 21:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Categories
Categories are a namespace in MediaWiki. They can't be modified, however, if you wish to categorize your templates, they should be put into Category:User templates. -- Wyn 18:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah. That means I have another thing to fix.  Thanks for noticing.


 * As for the new templates, they are not yet 'ready for prime time'. There is still a bunch of parametrization to be done, and some odd interactions that I don't understand.  Once I get it working, there are quite a few other wiki where I intend to use it.  There's also another set that I want to do for tutorial and other general documentation sequencing.  mtew 01:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that not all wiki's work the same, they may not have the same extensions installed, or be the same version, so some functionality may change. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 01:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for that reminder also. I've been programming for some time and usually try to use only the most primitive constructs so the result is more portable.  Your warning tells me that I am in for a lot of study time... mtew 06:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * From: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template –
 * Since conditionals are required version 1.4 or later is needed.
 * Apparently, the number of positions is limited to "small" integers, not just one digit.
 * &lt;noinclude&gt; and friends need version 1.6.
 * mtew 15:10, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:All_extensions is a list of available extensions. 19:23, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I have what I think are a proper set of page navigation templates. Could you all look them over?  mtew 11:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

DPL info edits
Since they don't really do anything to the page, how about make them minor edits? --JonTheMon 17:25, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * &lt;buzzy voice&gt;At your command.&lt;/buzzy voice&gt; mtew 17:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC),


 * I thought people were out of line when asking you to do a personal wiki, but seriously, massive test edits to a large number of mainspace articles like that is a nongood idea. Backsword 20:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * As JonTheMon noted, the changes do not change the displayed contents of the pages. It had me look closely at the contents of the pages and I did clear up a couple of minor problems, which I have been told is what should be done. The additions were mentioned on the appropriate discussion page before I started and drew no objections.  These are not 'test' edits to the main pages.  They add real information from known good sources in a more usable form.  The changes have been limited to a section of the game that I am familiar with.  The tests will take place in my space, not the public space.  Many, but not all, of the pages have a marker that asks for review, correction and even complete rewrites as needed.  My project has me going over these pages with a fine tooth comb.  So I have a problem with your comment.  It implies that I will be doing a lot more than I intend to do at present.  In fact the additions I intend to make at the present are complete.  It says that I will somehow do something 'nongood', implying that I am not capable of good judgement and careful work.  It is also at odds with what other people have said was allowable.  Judge by the results; do not prejudge.  mtew 01:33, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: quest stuff
I've stopped working on the quest project a long time ago and I think it's been inactive since then. One of the problems I had and I believe Sktbrd341 felt the same way, was maintaining the quest lists took a lot of time and was often outdated. Template:Quest checklist was an attempt to make things simpler, but it never really took off. I did experiment with dpl and implemented a list for Factions at Guild_Wars_Wiki:Projects/Quests/Factions2. The advantage of the dpl list was after the initial setup, maintenance was practically zero. Before I stopped working on the project, I used the dpl list exclusively. I don't have any problems if you want to edit Template:Quest checklist and any of the quest project pages. But I thought I would let you know of the dpl alternative if you want to go that route. Tedium 08:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I will look into the stuff you mentioned before proceeding.      mtew 11:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Show Preview
Hi there. I suggest you use the Show Preview button instead of using the Save Page button for every edit. You are flooding the recent changes list with your edits. You have made 34 edits to User:Mtew/templates/PageNav/Folder Tab‎ and 13 changes to User:Mtew/templates/PageNav/FolderTabs in one day. --kaheiyeh 23:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If that worked for what I am trying to do, I would have done that. Unfortunately, the recursive nature of the stuff I am testing doesn't work that way.  However, I am close to done so you will not have to put up with examining my minor edits much longer.      mtew 23:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Template edits
Out of curiosity, how much testing do you do before changing the main templates? 'cause your yes/no changes aren't hiding that 1/0. --JonTheMon 16:31, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to fix that now. I had it working better than it does now, but the spacing was wrong. Trying to fix that broke the hiding. Simple answer - a lot, but it doesn't always catch all the problems.     mtew 16:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose I ask because I don't see any testing edits before you change the templates. --JonTheMon 16:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I use preview a lot and the changes to the template have to be saved before they take effect. PITA. Once the change is made, I do another preview on the page that uses the change. That cycle got broken and the results were visable. Fixed now AFAICT.     mtew 17:00, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, in that case I'd try to make a copy of the template in my userspace to test it out. --JonTheMon 17:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I have improved the no/yes templates a bit, so the number is really invisible and the sorting still works :) poke | talk 17:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Guild halls
are explorable? Misery  17:07, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, that's the way they link from the game, but, since I have not proposed adding those parameters to that infobox yet, I'm backing those changes out.     mtew 17:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * K, just surprised me. Misery  17:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It surprised me the first time I followed one of the explorable links in the 'Game link:' name space and ended up on a guild hall page. Frankly, I'm not sure but there may have to be three pages for these. One for the quest if there is one, another for the guild halls and a third for the explorable area.     mtew 17:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The explorable area is probably what the Canthan Ambassador takes you to, I think environmental effects like lava on burning work there, but the flag stand isn't present. There seems to be multiple versions of maps. I would say that the "Guild battle" version would be the most important. Misery  17:39, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it is a little more complicated than that and will need a discussion before anything is done.     mtew 17:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Is...
... this helpful for you? poke | talk 00:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I still think Guild Wars Wiki:Game integration works better, with the noredir thing and all already done :) (plus less pageweight issues).--Fighterdoken 00:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The thing is just that my list is 20 minutes old. So all links that may be missing in the Guild Wars Wiki:Game integration page are in there. And actually I planned to update that list with my results ;)


 * Btw. I killed the wiki with my edit :( poke | talk 00:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * YES! I've made a copy of it for my own use. Also, the table needs to be in some navigation bar somewhere. From what you said before, this was not done with DPL? (I'd ask about the breakage out of curiosity about what things not to do, but that might give others hints they do not need.)     mtew 14:07, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No, there are other ways to get page lists than using DPL ;) But on the other hand that makes the list static and not dynamic as it would be with DPL, but that doesn't matter as the Game links are rarely changed. Why would we need that table in a navigation bar? The game links are meant for wiki access from in-game; there should be no need for normal visitors to see what game link a page has. And for a reference we have the Game integration index (which I have just updated). poke | talk 14:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that a link to Game integration index should be in a navigation bar somewhere. All the current links to that page are obscure. User pages mostly with a few talk pages and back links from the sub-pages. And thanks for doing the update.     mtew 14:51, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Your proposed templates
Your current descriptions are a bit confusing, but let me see if I got it. Are these being designed so that when templates/pages get moved from the template/mainspace to a user space, these templates can be used to call the moved template/link to the page whether it has been moved yet? Misery  17:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Basicly yes, but I was hoping to allow movement from one user space to another as well and from user space to main space as well as from main space to user space. In fact, the move from main space to user space was not a case I had considered...      mtew 17:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * BTW, those are supposed to be requirements, not a design. While I do have a design in mind, I wanted to get a reaction to the concept.  So far that reaction seems to be: I don't think I would us it, which is not so much an objection as a failure of the imagination.      mtew 16:24, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Game link:Explorable 385
Firstly please don't break the One Revert Rule.

Secondly the Lion's Arch outpost which you keep linking to is just that, an outpost, hence why it is linked from Game link:Outpost 55. The Explorable game link is for explorable areas. So far no one has created the Lion's Arch explorable area but it is similar to the Kaineng Center (explorable area) (i.e. during special quest(s)). Thanks.- TheRave (talk) 11:31, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Doesn't look like he broke 1RR to me. He edited it, then reverted Backsword's edit. That's 1 revert. ;) Biscuits [[Image:User Biscuits sig.png]] 11:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you Biscuit.     mtew 11:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) The Rave: Then CREATE that page with an appropriate note about when you end up there and that more information is needed about the area BEFORE you break the link! Further, check that the link should not go to 'Lion's Gate'.


 * I half expected Backsword's carelessness, but I did not think you would break things. I expected you to have sense enough to put at least a stub in place before 'fixing' the link a third time.  I am very disapointed with your carelessness.  Now fix it the RIGHT way!      mtew 11:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's better not to assume that people are attacking you after just one post. If you think you're right and that TheRave (or any other user, for that matter) is mistaken, then explain so civilly without resorting to getting defensive or using snide remarks. Likewise, if your comments directed toward TheRave were sarcasm or playful, indicate that with ;) or :P or something that conveys the appropriate metalinguistic information. -- ★ KOKUOU ★ 12:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I do not believe The Rave was attacking me. I am seriously disappointed by his carelessness.  The comments I made are neither sarcastic nor humorous.      mtew 12:20, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I should clarify - I don't believe you broke 1RR, but I think Backsword (for once *sigh*) and TheRave are right in this case. I agree with what Anja said. Biscuits [[Image:User Biscuits sig.png]] 12:38, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Doesn't the quest when traveling from Prophecies to Nightfall occur in an explorable version of Lions Arch, although it's been a while since I've done it I seem to remember that it did occur in Lion's Arch and that it was either an explorable or mission version of the outpost. Also although Mtew didn't break 1RR in this instance to be honest when responding to people or making summary comments it doesn't help when you shout at he other user; since writing things like THIS is usually thought of as shouting online; either after their first comment or even when reverting a change that you think is not right without discussing on the articles talk page.


 * On the note of the Game link linked in the title, considering the link has existed for 21 months prior to your change and if I am right about the location of the aforementioned quest then how does it hurt having the link lead to a location that doesn't presently exist. To quote another situation; this one referencing red links on a mainspace page; "Having a red link is better than not having a link at all. Having a link is a hint to readers that we need such an article and we would appreciate it if someone could write something useful, even a simple but relevant one-liner. Wiki content is built from an almost unending list of broken links." While the situation isn't a normal red link the same reasoning still would apply since it still suggests to a user that content however basic it may be is appreciated about the area.


 * I haven't presently got any characters that could do the campaign travel quest from Prophecies to Nightfall but if anyone else does it might help if someone checked the F10 menu during the first part of the quest if it has anything related to Lion's Arch (explorable area) listed. -- Kakarot [[Image:User Kakarot Sig.gif|Talk]] 13:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * You are very likely correct about when it is called up, and a 'Lion's Arch (explorable area)' page may be needed, but at least create a stub for it if you really think it is significantly different from the outpost that the one can not substitute for the other.     mtew 13:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I added a request for research on this. I'll leave the Lion's arch (explorable) page for now, but in future please do not create pages to simply make them existant. It is very likely that there are a lot game links that are no longer accessible from in-game and such it doesn't hurt if people "would" get to a non-existant page, which they won't do, because they can't click the link. poke | talk 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just fyi. The page was filled with initial information now. poke | talk 11:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Formatting Guide Compliance
Are you going to do that on every quest page? --JonTheMon 16:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably eventually. For now, I am just working through pre-Searing Prophecies.  I asked that a skeleton version be added on the bot request list and it went nowhere.


 * There is a report using the information at User:Mtew/Projects/ByRegion/Quest comp/Prophecies


 * I have been doing tests on the requirements for pre-Searing quests and found more than a little of the information in the articles to be incorrect. At the moment, I am just marking the pages with errors, but I will be making corrections if it does not cause too much of a stink.


 * I am working on the quest project as I have a chance. I am also thinking seriously about location project items, but my understanding of the scope of that set of issues is still incomplete, so I am holding off on that.


 * mtew 16:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * What about fixing the pages immediately instead of listing on the talk page what is wrong? :/ poke | talk 16:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * At least one of the changes will be very controversial.


 * There are more than a few changes needed. If I go at it piecemeal, as you suggest, I will almost certainly loose track of what has been fixed and what still needs fixing.  I've made the mistake of not keeping track of where I am too often to want to repeat it.  I was going to make the list of things to change on my research page, but that would effectively hide it from everyone else.  There is also the problem that other things on the pages may need fixing; things I can identify as incorrect but not fix.  Putting in the Compliance Sections is not a wim; hard experience and more than a few mistakes has taught me that such check list are needed.  While I have not made the particular mistake of trying to maintain a centralized check list, I have observed that they are MUCH harder to maintain than distributed ones like this.


 * While you asked a good question, the answer is that doing it that way is setting up an almost certain failure. That is something only hard experience can teach.  You can ignore that leason, but you will pay dearly if you do.      mtew 17:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * What is the potentially controversial change? And while I appreciate that you want to be thorough and consistent with your work, couldn't you do a little bit of both? Like, make changes, then record what is done/still needs to be done at the same time? --JonTheMon 17:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * See the Request for Comments page.


 * I have found that I end up in trouble that way for something this big. Mixing the phases works when the number of details is small.  In my opinion, the number of changes needed here is beyond that limit.  I have done the research.  I am outlining the revisions to be made.  That has two effects: First, it serves to check that I have done all the research needed.  Second It establishes a writing schedule.


 * I may be being a bit compulsive about all this, but I am doing the work. I think the Compliance Sections will help me do the job correctly.  I understand the vandal patrol might find the clutter repetitive and might even be stirred into a small feeling of wanting to fix some of the issues raised.  I feel that their annoyance is a much smaller issue than getting the WIKI contents right.  If you want to and can help, by al means, have at it!


 * mtew 17:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Ban
Not cool. Take a wikibreak, cool your head, and come back ready to ignore trolls a little better. It's hard to claim moral high ground when you dignified everything he said with an angry response. - Auron 11:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Three days was excessive. I was working on a report generator when the ban took effect.  Per our e-mail discussion, I have added 'The Sewer' as a place where troll droppings belong.      mtew 18:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Mtew as you've already had a ban for your direct npa breach in regards to Belar, I would advise removing the offenging edit from your Diary ASAP, before one of the admins have to ban you again for continued breaches of NPA. Regards -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 17:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Please suggest a re-phrasing that retains the truth about his behavior, both past and expected. mtew 18:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * "I disagree with him intensely and think you will too. Much worse than Backsword. (As noted above, Backsword actually raises real issues that can be addressed.)" --JonTheMon 18:20, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * But I don't necessarily disagree with him. What I am having trouble with is his attempts to disrupt the things I am working on and his attacks on me, which you-all have decided to ignore. mtew 18:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * "Belar is a troll." Fin. - Auron &gt;8&lt; 18:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm.... "Belar is a troll" I suppose its accurate at least in this instance, does it being accurate make it less of a personal attack? I'm not sure really. I'll ask Wyn, as she tends to be good with this kinda thing. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 18:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Some trolls are fun. 'vicious troll'?
 * vicious&#x3a; adj:
 * (of persons or their actions) able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering; "a barbarous crime"; "brutal beatings"; "cruel tortures"; "Stalin's roughshod treatment of the kulaks"; "a savage slap"; "vicious kicks" [syn: barbarous, brutal, cruel, fell, roughshod, savage]
 * having the nature of vice [syn: depraved, evil]
 * marked by deep ill will; deliberately harmful; "a malevolent lie"; "poisonous hate...in his eyes"- Ernest Hemingway; "venomous criticism"; "vicious gossip" [syn: poisonous, venomous]
 * mtew 18:47, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * that's all covered by "troll." - Auron &gt;8&lt; 18:49, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * As Auron said, that's all covered by "troll", putting vicious definately tips into the NPA breach category. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 18:52, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * 'very unfunny troll'? mtew 18:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Really why you trying to add an adjective to the description of troll? It's all kinda covered by the term troll. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 19:02, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Simply because I have been around long enough to know that there shades and degrees of trollishness and this is not one of the lighter variants. mtew 19:47, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Really Mtew, as long as it isnt a direct personal attack on Belar or anyone else, or breach of any of out other policies, you can type what you like there. As it stands however your page is currently still breaching NPA, so please have it changed by the end of the weekend GMT. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 01:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, really. This whole episode has left me with a great deal of bitterness.  Your collective failure to understand how painful I found some of his comments to be and the fact that he seemed to enjoy the distress he was causing more than justified the additive.  I have now consulted the lot of you and arrived at what is apparently a mutually acceptable phrase.  I am still trying to understand how calling him a troll, with all the nasty implications that go with that term, is not considered a personal attack, while terms like vicious (see above) and buffoon (which simply means that he acts like a clown and plays to his audience) are,      mtew 02:27, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Personal attacks entail the user is hurt by them. Belar would be proud of the title. - Auron &gt;8&lt; 02:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll assume you meant 'target' for 'user'. I agree he might be proud of the designation 'troll' and that is a profound condemnation of him as a person in my opinion.      mtew 02:56, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * As i said, I'm not so sure calling him a troll isnt a breach of NPA, however another more experianced admin thinks its permissable and I'm willing to follow his lead in this instance. Also Wyn asked Belar to stop "trolling" your page, thus again adding credance to the label of troll. As for your personal upset. We all tried to acknowledge your personal pain, however just because you were upset, didn't give you carte blanch to ignore the over arching policies contained within the wiki. So although alot of us sympathise with you, it doesn't change that which you are allowed to do, including blanking things or changing text on your talk page. Being an admin on this wiki isnt about playing favorites or who you feel empathy for; its about just trying to make sure that the wiki keeps ticking along the best it can, with a very small part of that being trying to aid in sorting out user disputes and policy issues such as these, which we MUST handle in an objective manner in accordance with wiki policy. I hope you can try and understand that. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 06:40, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * You got what you wanted. Now drop this.  We both have better things to do.      mtew 07:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)