Talk:Base camping/Archive 1

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What you are describing here is camping. Yes, people call it turtling, but they misuse terminology. The strategy of turtling comes from real military maneuvers of very long pedigree. S 11:14, 15 February 2007 (PST)


 * See Testudo Formation on Wikipedia, for instance. S 11:16, 15 February 2007 (PST)

I believe it, but we also misuse the term gank ;). Turtling the way I explained it is common form in the gvg community. And I don't know if you're suggesting we delete it, but i'm suggesting we keep it :) --Narcism 11:29, 15 February 2007 (PST)


 * Considering I wrote most of the article, I would hardly suggest deleting it. I am just saying that the way people in the GvG community use the term, which is the definition you tacked on, is wrong. (I don't generally have a high opinion of the intelligence or the erudition of 80% of the PvP community, present company excepted.) We can explain why their usage is wrong, not parrot the same mistakes. S 11:36, 15 February 2007 (PST)


 * Whether the term is used correctly or incorrectly vis-a-vis its "correct" definition is irrelevant. We're not trying to correct the pvp community for using a term wrong, instead we should educate those who play gvg and hear the term, to tell them what it is referring to. :) --Narcism 16:47, 15 February 2007 (PST)

The version that was up was amazingly strange, so I put up a short, simple and coherent one while we discuss. Cantos 16:57, 15 February 2007 (PST)


 * Other way around would be better. Explain what's wrong with the current before replacing it wholesale.


 * For myself, I've only heard the term "turtling" used in GW to describe a team hiding out with their NPCs (often in the guild room) while they wait down the timer to VoD. In RTS games, I've heard turtling as building up many defenses.


 * From the orginal:

A turtling tactic attempts to maximize defense at the expense of offense. A turtling team will make use of terrain, wards, traps and spirits, and generally stay within earshot and the range of other AoE protections. From this defensive enclave, one or two members will enter the opponent's midline, telegraphing an overextension; this vanguard is often called a talon. The talons are actually decoys intended to draw opponent members out of their midlines; for this reason, they are often specced to be relatively self-sufficient and are good at retreat. The talons will continue to infuriate the opposing team until an opponent is pulled into damage range, whence he will be spiked.


 * While I recognize the tactic, I've never heard of this sort of tactic being called turtling in GW (but I wouldn't know what to call it). Certainly never heard the term "talon".  Is this from a specific guild, or it a common term that I haven't been exposed to?


 * I would tend to call the activity performed by the defensive side of a split "delaying", and the tactic described above is similar. But I haven't GvGed with top tier teams, so I don't know if this vocabulary is common.  --Drekmonger 18:17, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Bah. S 03:13, 16 February 2007 (PST)

To answer Drekmonger's question: the word "turtling" is completely haphazard in usage among players. It is also pretty rare and often used to mean base camping by players who don't know any better. My draft above was based on an actual military maneuver. The original turtle formation was designed to be mobile and penetrate an offensive front, not plonk themselves down in the rear, where high defense is not necessary. The term "talon" is sometimes used in texts on military strategy for units designed primarily to provoke the enemy. The name "turtling" has a long history in gaming. If you have played any street fighter at professional levels, you may know that thee are two main styles of play: the "turtle style" (usually American) and the "Japanese style". The first is high on blocks and counters, and the second is full of flashy high offense maneuvers. This, for instance, is a legendary final match where the Japanese champ overcomes the American turtling champ by a full parry + combo (one of the more difficult stunts to pull off). Back in the day when Netrek was the world's biggest MMORPG, "turtle squads" were siege leaders. You would send three-four constellations in a tight triangular formation and they would cover each other well enough to run from any skirmish: perfect for recon. In summary, most GW players who use "turtling" don't know what they are talking about. The article right now is about something far too specific to justify the name of the versatile turtling strategy. S 03:52, 16 February 2007 (PST)
 * Thats the problem with slang in PVP :P it can mean one thing and the other for another, I suggest we just go with what the top guilds support, then add the true meaning for historic things, like to show where it could of came from. Arcad1a 07:24, 16 February 2007 (PST)