Talk:Shadow Form

Note
"A sin with 55hp and protective spirit will still receive damage." This either means the damage reduction from SF is applied before that from Protective Spirit so 5 dmg per shot still goes through, or (and I'm not aware of what numbers go through on a 55) the 10% damage is rounded up to 6 and the 5 reduction doesn't cover it. The note as it stands is ambiguous about this, can someone clarify, and test if needed? --Kyoshi (Talk) 09:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * People with three enchantments receive damage. So the reduction is applied before the 10% limit. Paddymew 09:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thought so. Thanks to whoever clarified on the note. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 18:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Casting Protective spirit previous to shadow form results in taking 0 damage. Before either protective spirit or shadow form expire, recast both in order again.  Perfectly viable for 55 builds. 70.71.231.19 00:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

rofl
for a second i thought oh u can just do a 55 sin now, glad they made the reduction after spells lolAurenX 15:31, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Glyph of Swiftness+Shadow Form(At least 14 shadow arts)+Shroud of Distress20% ench ^^, not signed in -Love Toast

I don't think they meant for SF to no longer be used as a farming tool, just so that it's no longer a God Mode button skill. Master Ketsu 01:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

doesn't seem to be updated in pre-view
When I go over the skill with my cursor, it still shows the old (not-nerfed) description--81.164.221.12 21:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Go outside of PvP area. 88.115.64.92 21:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

A Quick Question
How was this nerfed? I never got to use shadow form in the first place ( to expensive ) but I knew how it worked. I cant any bad differances on the update page, it says

"decreased Energy cost to 5; decreased recharge to 30; changed functionality to: "Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, you cannot be the target of enemy spells, and you gain 5 damage reduction for each Assassin enchantment on you. You cannot deal more than 5...21...25 damage with a single skill or attack." "

All I can see is a decreased re-charge, and less energy cost. Thanks alot for the help, Stroggs 22:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The damage reduction killed it. before all attacks missed, now it only takes off 5-15 damage with a decent bar, and in HM, thats not nearly enough. -Sonic    24.243.7.67 22:45, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I would suggest viewing Page History to find out previous functions. You also missed out on the "Functionality changed to". Previously it prevented all spells and attacks, now it no longer prevents attacks, but has a rather niche damage reduction effect instead. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 01:12, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Do it here http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?title=Shadow_Form&diff=1927040&oldid=1926692--88.24.8.104 10:32, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

WELL DONE ANET
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UWSC_TerraWay

Uhhh... Not

Just smiters boon it... 81.154.30.41 23:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * At the very top: "This build got to be tested. It's just Theory At the moment."
 * Even if it does work, it won't be nearly as fast as the previous speed clears. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 06:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Everyone keeps saying this retarded skill was nerfed on the 2-25 updates. Thats crazy talk, this is a buff, Just get your health down to 100 or less and use crit agility crit defense and prot spirit. The absorption built into Shadowform guarantees you take all 0's for damage, from any source except lifestealing touches, even stuff like aoe and traps. Attacks that hit for 0 trigger essence bond or balts spirit so energy is no kind of problem; and since you are a monk 2ndary anyways you can use Strength and Honor to buff you damage. Crit agility and crit defense is very easy to maintain and now its extremely easy to make SF wrap. I know that the vast majority of Shadow Form players are so completely reliant on the wikis that they are not going to understand stuff like absorption or recharge on crit, but, there has to be at least one out there thats not brain dead who will eventually post a 100hp sin on the wiki and then the community at large will realize what a powerful buff it got. To me its all sadness. The "test Krewe" is a joke and for them to release this after so many months of "extreme and rigourous testing" is an embarassment to them. Regina has always been especially duplicitous about just about everything and with this she was tru to form. I went back and reread everything she said on the matter and while she tends to write very obscurely; and it seemed she was alluding to a nerf......... she never really did promise one...... Total Failure. 70.188.168.127 07:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

No because the damage reduction from Shadow Form kicks in BEFORE Protective Spirit, which means the 1000 damage you recieve from foe gets reduced by 10 to 990 then reduced to 10 by Protective Spirit, hence you still take 10 dmg.
 * This is probably intentional. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 10:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, ANet said they were intending to nerf SF, not make it better. Paddymew 12:39, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Damage cap
Regarding this edit: to me it was unclear whether SF limited Sliver's damage after the first 25, as it states "You cannot deal more than 5...21...25 damage with a single skill or attack". Sliver being only one skill, there could be confusion about whether packet damage is reduced to zero after reaching the cap, or if perhaps the damage is capped per packet. I think it might be useful to note the reduction being per packet and not per skill as the description states. 83.161.196.159 12:57, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * i'll test it, cuz you might have a point there, but on the other sight, maybe it means : on cast?,whatever, ill try it right now,ill report back in 15 mins or so Deadfalk 15:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * tested, it only has effect on single hits.

tbh, i find this really ridiculous,-33% dmg AND capped to 25!,i mean, like removing the most used farming skill and the only assassin farming ability from the game wasnt enough! i mean, come on, nearly every class has a farming ability, warriors got defy pain and 100B, rangers got their plethora of dodging skills, monks got 55, necros got...something, ele got mist form and obbi flesh (no matter how rudimentical it is now), etc! Deadfalk 18:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Necro's have SS. Also, this skill is still completely viable. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 18:39, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Assassin has plenty other farming abilities, people used SF because it was so OP that using anything else was pointless, really. 84.99.25.43 12:28, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * the 33% is gone, it's just the raw cap now which is easily bypassed with degen and DoT's 98.134.49.236 03:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello guys, as you know, the max damage you can do with SF up with shadow arts 16 is 26 damage. Though, in combination with Ebon Battle Standard of Honor and Asuran scan, I can do like 40 damage with daggers. How does this damage maximum works guys? Does any of you know more that this? I even did more than 44 damage, which is the maximum if you would look to the fact that 26* 1.69 (+69% damage from Asuran Scan) = 44. F. C. Sauër 22:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

hey guys l2 105 sin kthx 201.150.73.22 04:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Epic Buff
For running. 5 energy is good, no more armor swapping to bypass the health loss is good, and 30 recharge is fun. Nothing lost that was needed. Invincible  Rogue  01:33, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You now get crippled by Hamstring. Paddymew 05:59, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi. Invincible  Rogue [[Image:User_Invincible Rogue_siggyiggywiggy.gif]] 04:37, 6 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Dry joke or bad playing. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 17:10, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I also like how it is 100% maintainable on every primary now, except energy might be a bit hard on warriors and paragons. Misery  17:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Just bring Bonneti's or GftE respectively. :> 128.255.148.95 14:54, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

That is definitely dry humor i appreciate very much :D --The Wind Sage 01:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

damage reduction
what the shit is up with it, tbh? while vaettir farming, i've noticed that SF sometimes won't even count itself for damage reduction. is this the Shielding Hands bug all over again? (for those of you who don't know what the shielding hands bug is/was, it damage reduction would stop after an excessively large number of hits.) if it's not that, does it have something to do with how the enchantments are stacked? i won't mark this as a bug until someone else can confirm. you'd seriously hope anet wouldn't rewrite the same bug they'd fixed earlier. =/ ···  Danny  Pew   Pew 
 * Shielding Hands bug still exists ;) Would not be surprise if SF has the same bug 194.2.20.67 15:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Does it? Haven't noticed. I've also heard suggestions that it has to do with enchantment stacking with Great Dwarf Armor or other armor-boosting skills. (Such as GDA would decrease damage before or after the DR was taken into account, depending on enchantment order.) However, I'm fairly certain I've noticed it without GDA in use, so I'm leaning towards the reduce cap. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew 

I've recently been told that it has to do with the original duration of the spells verus their extended durations. Is this an existing bug with damage reduction skills, then? ···  Danny  Pew   Pew 

Bugged damage reduction?
There's a note over at GuildWiki: "Refreshing any Assassin enchantment before it ends will add an additional 5 damage reduction. Enchantments that refresh automatically, such as Critical Defenses, will also give additional damage reduction. Any additional damage reduction is lost if Shadow Form itself is refreshed." I think that might be what 81.206.191.9 was trying to say with his/her recently-removed note. I haven't tested it myself though. --Irgendwer 17:26, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's true. If you cast SF and then Shroud of Distress, you'll have 10 damage reduction. When you refresh Shroud, you'll have 15 damage reduction until the original one would have run out. 98.248.90.248 17:46, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That makes a lot of sense considering my observations stated above. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  07:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Tested and confirmed the bug. Added template. User RolandOfGilead sig.png Roland of Gilead talk 22:15, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Then you can reliably use this additionnal damage reduction with at least 2 skills : Way of the Master and Way of Perfection. Without consisdering duration mods with equipment or consummable, they last 60 sec, and have same recharge as SF (30sec). Reapply them just after you recast SF. Elephant 22:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 'Any additional damage reduction is lost if Shadow Form itself is refreshed', This is NOT
 * True, If you have SF up and have a HSR, and refresh SF ( Before the origanal runs out ) you have a -10 reduction. I have tested and confirmed. Tyzzz

So, What would happen if you recast a maintainable assassin enchantment on a SF assassin and refreshing it? i would say that it does another -5 every time becouse maintainables dont end unless cancelled or on recast SF. Tyzzz
 * The reduction doesnt stack for maintained enchantments. Tyzzz

55 Shadow Form
Would a 55 build work with the new shadow form? Protective spirit with an A/Mo or Mo/A and the maintainable SF with 5 damage reduction make this seem possible. The 1 hp loss per hit (5.5 damage rounding up to 6) could easily be countered by health regeneration spells or through in another assassin enchant. I'm not sure if this would work, but it seems plausible from the way I see it.
 * Please Read Notes Before Commenting, Exactly this : The damage reduction is calculated before Protective Spirit, making it ineffective for 55 builds. -- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 16:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have tested it and I find that comment to be wrong. In my testing the first cast of shadow form 55 works fine, then after the intended duration of shadow form, 22 Seconds at 16 Shadow Arts, the Damage Reduction ended and no matter how many new assassin enchants I put on me the damage wasn't reduced. Even after recasting Protective Spirit, Shadow Form still kept the damage reduction up until that 22 second mark. It seemed independent of anything else. The only explanation of my testing is that the damage reduction is only lasting through the first cast's initial length and never reapplying itself. Torvarren 18:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9906/gw022qx.jpg   Stop fake infos, 55hp build works. You just have to (re)cast PS BEFORE SF...
 * Though this section is over half a year old, the article still claims that 55hp does not work. I can confirm: It does work. As written by 90.15.174.52, all you have to do is to cast protective spirit before SF, every time you reapply SF. I can add: Reapplying PS and thus bringing it to the 'top' of the effects monitor does not cause you to die immediately. The PS you applied right before SF has to last long enough to cover the full duration until you reapply SF, that's the point. It's comparable to the bug-note: If PS was applied before SF and it lasts long enough, this 'version' of PS will protect you, regardless of any other 'PS versions'.
 * Could someone be so kind to put that into compact proper english and add it to resp. correct the article? –aRTy 06:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Gnaa, forgot two annotations:
 * 1.) 55hp did not work right after the SF update, the note had its validity at that time. Former testers probably did not any mistake, but an update seems to have affected this mechanic, though I have no idea which one.
 * 2.) The damage is 0 as you can see in the screenshot. 5.5 is not rounded to 6, it's rounded to 5 here. –aRTy 06:49, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't shadow form itself count as 1 assassin enchantment so the damage reduction is 10 as the screenshot shows 2 enchantments? Then it wouldn't matter whether it is 5 or 6, unless it is showing 5 or 6 with only shadow form.  K61824 22:48, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, SF counts itself. But the screen shows two monk enchants and a stance (and SF of course), so the reduction is only archieved by SF. –aRTy 02:13, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Scatter proof
How?--65.95.24.91 15:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Great. NOW can they take Dhuum out of UW?
This skill was at least 75% of the reason Dhuum invaded UW... Now that it can't let players bypass basic laws of physics, could they possibly remove the stupid skeleton's to help re-stabilize the ecto economy? --The Wind Sage 01:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Re-stabilize a deflated material by adding more of it? I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  02:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Ya have a great point, but remember there are many out there who made all their ecto's BEFORE the crash. As a result, there are many trader's out there who have not quite gotten the news that they are far more rare now as many of their trade prices are still the same and the trades happen with those who have remaining ectos. An example:

Wanna buy something good like an everlasting tonic? It used to run you 100e-250e. Then the ecto farming market crashed, far less ecto's moving around. The one's with ecto's rotting in their banks get used, and so people don't lower their prices. They buy something, and the cycle continues. Normal players have been completely thrown out of high priced trading.

I guess it will just take some time. --The Wind Sage 05:36, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Like Reaganomics? High priced trading occurs among rich people and this is true in real life as well. People who play the market "stock exchange" or the "ecto-exchange(lol)" are rich, and only a little of it actually trickle down to people who are not so rich.  So this is likely to persist for a while... I mean some people have several panels of their xunlai filled with ectos and some have tons of armbraces too!. The only way to get super rich is to get rich yourself, with a lucky drop and sell it for a lot of ectos, and start power trading.  This is the same in real life as well (albeit a lot more difficult)... get lucky with an investment, sell it for a lot of money, and start shorting the stock market like the goldman saks CEO's; or be an entrepreneur, hope that your product will sell like crazy, screw people over, and make tons of money like Bill gates and Steve jobs. Of course if you are rich to begin with, then it's super easy to get even richer.  -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 15:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Dhuum is holding a great stash of ectos, I have faith it will trickle down to the poor players | 72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 16:22, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

That, or people will start to use them for their original purpose: making obsidian armor. Once the game itself absorbs enough of the ecto's, it'll even out again. --The Wind Sage 23:20, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * reagan was the worst president ever. he's the reason we're in such a sh*thole right now -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 07:16, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You sure that wasn't the guy who spent $5T looking for nuclear weapons in dumbfuckistan? I mean, I'm not saying I liked the guy or anything, but at least Reagan finally did away with the commies.  Well, the red commies.  Oh, wait, China is red too.  Well, the Soviets.  –Jette 07:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know... did he approve of necromancy? &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 23:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Chairman Mao? Probably.  –Jette 02:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Kimmy Jung says he's immortal. Maybe he stumbled across some scrolls of late. -- Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 02:10, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Kimmo is small-time. –Jette 02:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Worst president was either Carter or Nixon. Though the reason we're in this craphole now is actually CLINTON's fault. Seriously. Taka Ragranok 20:24, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, saw the convo a paragraph or so up about dhuum in underworld and looked down and saw a debate about American politics. Internet at it's best. Anyway, aren't dhuum skeles still there to stop 55 builds/obby flesh/spell breaker and annoy spirit spammers? Kinda pointless in the first place since SoS spamming ends up killing anything that isn't in a group of 5+ 114.77.98.223 07:51, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

a few words
first of all it still works fine. secondly it DOES work with Protective Spirit, and last but not least.. good try but its still better than This, This , and This Guy-- Arrythmia   (talk · contributions) 10:32, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * at the bottom plz X treme 17:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Related skills
Shield of absorption? The damage reduction is decreased by 5 each time you refresh an assassin enchantment for the full duration of shadow form. So.... It kind of relates to shield of absorption in a way. 125.238.241.36 11:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, the only thing that links them is that they absorb damage, but there are many skills that have the same effect. Also, the way the damage absorption works it's totally different. --Lhoj 12:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

touch "skill"
Wallows don't seem to be using their bite while I have SF up, same for anyone else? = Stimpson J Kat  02:14, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Could be something wonky in the AI or it could be a real bug, I'll test it when I have somebody online to test it with. –Jette 06:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't bite a shadow. 38.100.109.4 18:44, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I still succesfully farm with this
just not as well as before--Hubbard The Dervish 03:16, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it's kinda an maintainable Spell Breaker with 5 damage reduction. If holy wrath wasn't nerfed it would have made farming even more easy (spell proof yay :p) Rhonin Soren 21:26, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

A Bug?
As I've been farming dragon roots for Nich I've noticed something strange... I use a perma SF with Shroud of Distress, and an echoed Chaos storm... Now What happend with me is that when I've cast my arcane echo, and I cast Chaos storm faterwards, right as I casted it and arcance echo becomes the skill, the cooldown on Shadow Form resets by 5 secs or so... And it didn't happen randomly, but all the time. Did some1 else notice that, or is it just me? Death Fox 21:38, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've noticed it too. Fortunately, the actual recharge of Shadow Form doesn't seem to be affected. --Irgendwer 22:16, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've seen that happen with Echo and various trap skills before, so it's not exclusive to Shadow Form or Arcane Echo. As Irgendwer said, I don't believe the actual recharge is affected, merely the recharging animation seems to offset by an odd amount. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  03:50, 26 March 2011 (UTC)