User talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Misplaced Topics/Jun 2009

Can we just remove the dishonorable system?
I'm tired of getting banned from pvp because I report leechers. -- adrin  06:19, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you only have a problem with getting dishonourable for reporting then completely scrappign the dishonour system would be overkill. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:29, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * it's a broken system. they need to fix it, or remove it -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 06:30, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How about adding something where if more than half the team reports a leecher, everyone who reported doesn't get dishonor points?72.71.231.246 00:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Under the current system, reporters don't get dishonor for reporting as long as at least 1/3 of the team reports the same player. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not True - 3/8 reports = more than a third, I still get dishonor points. Wish that it was 33% – Mar  [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] Master  01:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's completely true. "At least a third" means "one third or more", 2 out of 8 is less than one third, 3 out of 8 is more than one third. 72.71.231.246's sugestion would raise the requirement to 3 reporters in 4v4 and 5 reporters in 8v8. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me be more CLEAR. With 3 total leech reporters, I STILL GET DISHONOR; therefore 3/8 or 37.5% is still dishonor in 8v8. The error is in your comment above about 1/3 reports = no dishonor, Gordon. – Mar  [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] Master  02:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should've read your previous post more carefully instead of just skimming over it. According to the September 27th, 2007 update notes, it's only supposed to require 1/3. If that is not the case, I recommend making a bug report by posting at ArenaNet talk:Miscellaneous bugs, or by contacting . -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologize for seeming to be ready to jump all over this. This leeching is EXTREMELY frustrating to me and is just about the highest level of "griefing" possible in game. There appears to be no viable fix without someone from Anet doing something. And I guess they are resource constrained. But, I have played on both sides, and leeching is on both sides.  There needs to be a way.  I know that is was already stated elsewhere that Anet doesn't like putting the controls for banning in someone else's hands.  So, Anet needs to put some hands in it.  I have seen my first leech bot tonight.  I was in position #1 and a warrior followed me around, but used no skills at all. But, most leeches do a) nothing, b) move a bit, then nothing. Filtering out the obvious leeches would be no damage, no deaths, no skills used on friend or foe. I realise this is server side code, but some "stats" collected from players in pvp, and analyzed would be good first step. – Mar  [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] Master  06:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Anet knows its broken, which is one thing. Them fixing it, is another thing. I support it being removed because it requires to much user intervention to work. If they remove that requirment, then random people will be flagged as leaching because there computer is slow/or high ping. It needs to be removed period. Dominator Matrix  06:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * They couldn't fix Smiters Boon in pvp so they just removed it. Worked out well imo. -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 06:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * dishonorable is what keeps people from fagging out ra how much they want when they don't get a perfect team. the reportsystem is terrible but it's better than nothing. --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 06:37, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * at least remove the backfire from reporting people i think -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 06:42, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, but thats not always the case. People will afk because they know people are afraid to report people because if they are the only one, then they get it. Removing the backfire does not work either. It then clogs support, and then there is no risk of reporting someone. There is no compromise. Its either love it or hate it. It needs to be removed. as its not better then nothing. Dominator Matrix  06:42, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Remove backfire and clog support plz~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 06:59, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * did you even play ra/cm/ab before dishonorable or do you just feel like QQing..? tbh don't fucking report if you feel you always get dishonorable for it. --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 07:07, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought leeching reporting was purely automated. If it is reviewed, excessive workload could be avoided by prioritizing the frequently reported and frequent single reporters for human review in order to catch the worst offenders for both leeching and false reporting. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes i did angel and removing backfire wont allow ppl to quit without consequences~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 07:18, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * On a similar note, I keep getting reported for killing myself in RA, which Gaile says is a legitimate playstyle. The system causes more trouble than it prevents (it prevents nothing in case you were wondering). ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:50, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Gaile: Reporting someone because you don't like their skills, their play style, or their choice of hairstyle is dead wrong! The system is intended to be used only for reporting issues such as leeching and harassment. Playing [foolishly] (or dying your armour unwisely ;) ) is not against the game rules ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:56, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I was running an VoS derv runner, giving people free runs in RA the other day. I got reported for giving people a free service. I wonder why.Pika Fan 08:00, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Regina, please ban whoever wrongly reported me even though I wasn't leeching! They were spamming pms about me being too kind and running them around RA. I beseech you to right my grievance.Pika Fan 08:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

This is 3 days in a row, where after trying desperately to get all the other players to report; only some do. JQ has 1-2 leechers pretty reliably, still it's a minor moral victory to get 3 players to report. THIS STILL GETS ME DISHONOR .. the system apparently requiring 4 reports in 8v8 is BROKEN!! I think that some report needs to be made (DAILY to ANET) of accounts and number of "leeched" battles reported. If an account leeches pretty consistently, gets maybe 5+ battles reported, they need a more "effective" ban! – <font color="DarkRed">Mar  <font color="DarkRed">Master  11:14, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't think I would ever say this but I agree with Adrin, to a degree. In that the entire Dishonour system needs reworked from the grounds up. Personally I think leeching is a very high level of griefing and people should get hit by a much heftier and effective punishment. Also the way in which people get punished for reporting needs changed. The disinsentive to report people needs vastly reworked as at the moment its punishing the conscentious few. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 12:39, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As long as the reason for the creation of the Dishonorable system still exists, the Dishonorable system itself must continue existing. But as it is now, it's misused when not underused. It requires active input in areas where you don't have time to input anything. That's why the system should detect possible rule breakers and prompt users with a quick and easy panel that does not disturb gameplay and can be accepted or rejected swiftly. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 18:56, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Everyone should be rewarded max ranks so nobody needs to leech and only those who really like to play JQ (or anything else) will be there. (86.82.36.54 22:42, 5 April 2009 (UTC)).
 * There is leeching of 2 things, Luxon/Kurzick and more importantly Balthazar .. which is either to "buy" skills/mods or ZKeys. So, max rank idea is not going to fly. – <font color="DarkRed">Mar [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] <font color="DarkRed">Master  22:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The cause of all problems. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Mar Master's Arguement. There are two kinds of leeching A and B. Your idea only solves A. ANet should not solve 1 of the problems they should solve both so your idea fails.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 23:52, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * gg this thread is too long, now regina wont read it. maybe she'll just archive it -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 05:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @ salome- wow you didn't disagree with me! well it's true these things can happen. don't worry though. there will never be a point where you will agree with this guy -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 00:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @adrin - I disagree. It's easy to agree with me. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:11, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Titles aren't the problem, it's the way players interpet them. 145.94.74.23 13:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is why they are a problem. Dark Morphon 14:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * People are the problem, because there will always be a few that try to abuse anything they can, and that won't care how it affects others (if they are even aware of it). See how farmers who want easy-money often don't realize their impact on the economy. But that's no reason to remove titles from those who enjoy it, or remove the economy from those who enjoy it. We need to take steps to find good ways to deal with abusers. Like find a good way to spot leechers, and give them bans or negative points or some adequate punishment. Oh, and give them a low-income low-risk low-impact alternative that they can exploit so that they don't bother anyone else. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 15:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Adrin: You've long been incredibly rude on my talk page, and I have tolerated your crap for a long time. If you can't behave properly, according to the guidelines I've set out, I don't see a reason to respond to you while you act like this. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 23:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Regina: You don't see a reason to answer a question asked by the community? It's not possible that other people might actually be interested in this topic?  All I see is a thinly veiled excuse not to respond to an issue you don't care about.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * >.> -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 00:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Adrin as far as I can see, by not using the system it would essentially be the same as removing it so if you dislike its effect of punishing you then act as though it don't exist and it will have no effect on you unless you leech. I personally prefer it over nothing as it gives us an option, however I do see that it could use improvements.-- Natalie Black [[Image:User_NatalieBlack_sig.jpg| ]] 00:21, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I almost...kinda...sorta...agree with Shard. Almost. If there is no answer to the question in time, that is perfectly fine by me. I know Adrin started this particular topic, and has been very active in it (albeit in not the best way, maybe), but a lot of other people in this topic are genuinely curious as to an answer to this. If you do know anything, even if its an NDA response, I think at least some people would be satisfied to some degree. I hope I don't sound rude, and those are not my intentions, but thats just my two cents. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]] <font color="#D2691E">Wandering <font color="#D2691E">Traveler  00:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Likewise, you, Shard, have also been incredibly impolite here. All I would like is for a modicum of respectful behavior. I've gotten comments from users who don't even want to post on my talk page because people such as yourself and Adrin are aggressive, almost inflammatory, and rude. So, please (I'm saying please), behave. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 00:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you don't know something, just say so. Don't lie to people or make up excuses.  That's why you're not as liked as Gaile.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you have to ignore adrin and shard, but it's obvious there's other people besides those 2 who are inquiring about this and who would like to know Anet's stance on this issue. The dishonor system is pretty dumb, people don't want to report leechers because they get punished for it which makes more people not want to report leechers because no one else is doing it so they don't get punished for it, and it becomes a cycle where no one reports the actual bad people because the game makes them unable to play. Why not just remove the dishonor points from reporting leechers, if a sizeable majority of players report a leecher they get dishonor, the end. Or just make it a report, and have Support punish people who leech with a temporary game ban or something. The current implementation of the system is basically making players not want to use it because their fellow players don't want to use it so they don't possibly get dishonor. DarkNecrid 00:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Shard, I'm perfectly willing to answer questions, however I would appreciate it if questions were asked and ensuing discussion takes place within a framework, e.g. basic respect towards fellow commenters. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 00:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to distract from the topic of wiki users, but how long will we have to tolerate the dysfunctional leeching system? It is barely better than nothing. In the JQ outposts there is a great deal of anger about leeches. We all know we "should" report, but the report system is very distracting for those ACTUALLY fighting.  The ones who have the time, the leeches, obviously never report. And to complicate matters further, you can /report all the way across the area, if you transcribe the name (in some cases the names are difficult) and then report.  This is while you are being abused by the shrine npcs. Some wiki users may be brusque but the issue is still here. Another issue, is not all teams have native english speakers, that means getting all to report can be a challenge. Please, Please, Please do something. – <font color="DarkRed">Mar  [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] <font color="DarkRed">Master  00:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey look, a calm and normal response from regina. Maybe i'll respond now. All we want are answers. i don't see anything here that is too impolite. Maybe a bit harsh, but nothing to validate a response as "I've tolerated your crap for a long time." Chill out. btw, you never answered the question. are you going to or is someone else going to have to ask it again? -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 00:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Adrin, I am not viewing your current comments in isolation. There is a history of you behaving this way, and I don't think it is a positive way of behaving in this space. Your sarcastic attitude and dismissiveness in even this comment doesn't show even a basic amount of politeness. Again, I ask you to please try to act in such a way that this is a welcoming place for all -- including those lurkers who are afraid to post here because of all the sheer negativity. I am not asking you to refrain from posting, but to post in such a way that it generates respectful discussion. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 01:01, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Regina is a good person tho, she did great work in the X-Fire community, there just isn't much for her to do in GW1 because it's on the end of its life cycle, there's not much to community relate except suggestions forums + wiki topics. I really hope she'll reply to the inquiry soon though, this is one of the worst things in the game atm. Dishonor is a great concept but the current implementation is not good and needs a serious rework. DarkNecrid 00:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, Adrin, this was incredibly rude: "gg this thread is too long, now regina wont read it. maybe she'll just archive it --adrin" -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 00:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @adrin When you say things like "Hey look, a calm and normal response from regina, "Chill out," and "are you going to or is someone else going to have to ask it again?" it comes off as patronizing, dismissive and rude. It definitely sounds like you're mocking her, whether that is your intention or not. If you're not trying to be rude, maybe you should take a step back and look at what you are trying to say and how you are conveying it because obviously it's been taken as rude and aggressive by myself others and it just makes the wiki an unpleasant place to be. And the sad thing is, if you respond to this at all, I just expect you to be rude and dismissive to me as well. 202.95.57.83 01:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Dark Necric, DarkRed, et al: The Live Team has long been aware of the issues regarding the dishonorable system. They know that it often discourages reporting other players because, for instance, not enough people report. Right now the team doesn't have any free cycles to take care of the issue at the moment. Please be assured that I (as well as Support) have brought it to their attention many times over the past months. We've had meetings to discuss ways in which the system could be tweaked with a view to improving the experience for the people reporting leechers. But, as I said before, we don't have the resources to take care of at the moment. -- Regina Buenaobra 00:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * thanks =) -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 00:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply, hopefully the design team can snag resources for it for the big project build after April. :) DarkNecrid 00:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you mean "DarkNecrid" and "Mar Master" - DarkRed is the colour of Mar Master's signature. -- [[Image:User Brains12 circle sig.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 00:53, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm terribly sorry for my mistake, Mar Master. No hard feelings, I hope. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 01:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the answer, and I have no problem with the name DarkRed .. but i'll change my sig to use the hexcode. Please do prioritize this fix on your next major build.  JQ has become near unplayable.  I don't mind losing in a true 8v8 battle, but 8v2 is not much fun. Again, thanks for responding, I'm a developer, and I know about constraints, but I understand the leeching system has been an issue for some time.  Please bump it as high in the pending queue as possible.  – <font color="DarkRed">Mar  [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] <font color="DarkRed">Master  01:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there a way to make the reporting of unreadable names easier? For example someone who calls himself: "Illiliili Xyhili". I seriously hope Anet does something about this leeching because it's a serious problem... Not having the recourses seems to be the oneliner to get rid of all unwanted problems. I have serious doubts on buying future products because I'm afraid they are dealt with the same way. (86.82.36.54 01:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)).
 * Easier than clicking on them? Unless anet makes a brain wave reader for GW, there is no easier way to report people.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Quite funny, when you are across the map, clicking doesn't work, but you obviously knew that. – <font color="#8B0000">Mar [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] <font color="#8B0000">Master  02:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You know what else is funny? You can click on their names in chat and copy+paste it into a /report.  Easy right?  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And I thought people that don't chat, don't show up in chat. <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  02:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Chatting leeches, who knew? :P – <font color="#8B0000">Mar [[Image:User_Mar_Master_Sig2b.png| ]] <font color="#8B0000">Master  02:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Feisty peoples, lets not bite each others head's off >.>  <.<   >.><font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 05:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So your problem is that it's too hard to report leechers because they're across the map? That doesn't make any sense.  Leechers stay near their team's base, or if they don't, they res there.  Just report them when you res.  It's not rocket science.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:45, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * On the lux side of fort aspenwood, if they never leave the top and the kurz don't take both commander shrines, you'll never be in range to report unless you waste time and run backwards.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 05:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

The Easiest FIX to bot leechers(3rd party program that enters battle automatically).

When you download something from rapidshare, they ask you to type a code such as XYZ QTU...etc

When you create an email, they ask you to type a code such as XYZ QTU...etc

When you create any sort of account on a forum, they ask you to type a code such as XYZ...etc

Why do they do that? Answer: to make sure you are not an automated program that is spamming their server.

Why does it work? Because an automated program cannot read XYZ automatically. Only a human brain(and I really hope you have one) can read the 3 letters.

What should we do against bots that keep entering battles and ruin our matches? Simple Answer:

When you press enter battle, a prompt to type 3 letters comes up. If you type the 3 letters, then you can enter battle. If you cannot type the 3 letters, then you are either a bot, or someone without a human brain, in which case, you should really consider bananas in the jungle instead of guild wars. I know this can get annoying, but ask yourself the question: What is better between having an invalid teamate(leecher) every match(bot) or simply typing 3 letters before each match?

How difficult is it for ANet to put up a 3letter prompt like this? Answer: This is definitely the most difficult thing to ever implement in guild wars, isnt it? But ANet developers are extremely capable people, I bet you they can(can:Yes, want to:No). Oh wait, doesnt the game read your name when you donate kurzick/luxon factions to your guild? This looks awfully similar. The game can read your name but i really dont know if the game can read 3 letters, really.
 * Capcha doesn't work 100% of the time, could eliminate some leeching though. But really, FA and JQ are 10min+ battles, all the person needs to do is check on leech progress once in a while to re-enter. Personally don't frequent those areas much anymore due to the mass amount of non-playing or bots. Maybe we should just start sending support tickets. Aro 20:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Master Togo and Prince Rurik
i always asked myself why we never saw these two in the Realm of Torment. Did the developers actually thought of putting these two as spirits helping the players? if so why haven't they been put in? <font color="Orange">Fox007  08:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally like to think that they never ended up there- considering the nature of their deaths I'd say they would have gone on into the Mists / Hall of Heroes, as the lore states that the great heroes do. So I'm guessing that's why. :) -- [[Image:User_Elveh_sig.png|15px]] Elv 09:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Since they both got killed by Shiro and The Lich which were both minions of Abbadon they could have been taken by abbadon to the realm of torment. Or they could have been locked inside the Gate of Pain mission. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 09:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Semi-spoilerish: Complete factions, head from Zin Ku Corridor into Tahnnakai Temple (explorable) and head around to the right. ;) -- WarBlade 13:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, Rurik was first slained by a Dagnar Stonepate, and then again by the party leader, so he wasn't killed by the lich. --<font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]<font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">ontu 13:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * But still they both should go through the same the Son of Dunkoro went through. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 14:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Togo stays at Tahnnakai Temple. Rurik went... to the Hall of Heroes...? Maybe...? Well, we don't know if he was tainted by abaddon, he looked more like 'enslaved', anyways, this remnds me of something... fallen heroes: They started as good people(or at least they looked that way) and saved others many times, but ended up helping the enemy a great deal and fighting you when captured or deceived by Abaddon and his servants.
 * Rurik and Khilbrom are the fallen heroes of Tyria. Shiro is the one that was deceived in Cantha... Varesh was corrupted in Elona... Khilbrom, Rurik, Shiro and Varesh. All started with 'good faith', but all of them ended up touched and corrupted by the taint of abaddon (being Rurik the only one keeping his own mind, probably as a torture by the Lich). I wish we could remove the taint and 'clease' the remains of their souls. I wish we had a quest to redeem Varesh, Rurik, Shiro and Khilbrom in the Heart of Abaddon, after getting Razah. Go back there, talk to the 4 Envoys, fight them one by one in suppah epic battles never seen even before NOX, and for each one you freed, you get one of the Spirits freed and cleansed (but also without any memories before the taint) they feel like waking up from a nightmare, turn greenish like all ghosts and also level 20-sized, say thanks, tell you about something secret you may now get and leave. Each 'secret' would be a quest. Rurik sends you to the southernmost part of the Charr Lands, Varesh to Kourna, Shiro to Unwaking Waters and Khilbrom to the Tombs of Primeval Kings, make each quest and you get the final reward: The 'secret stash' of each fallen hero. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 21:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * (Cool idea) But I doubt Togo and the others killed by Shiro went to the Realm of Torment. Dunkoro's son was killed directly by demons from Abbadon (the things we face in the Ruins of Tombs), so it's reasonable that he would go to Torment. But Togo was killed by Shiro, who wasn't a servant of Abbadon, only touched by one (the Seer). We could even say that the Cataclysm only led people to the RoT because the spell that brought it came directly from Abbadon, not thanks to the Vizier being involved. Erasculio 21:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it would be cool if togo's tell's you that there's a problem in the mists when he wanted to visit his ancestor's (atleast i guess he can because of Lord Odran and his portals) Also known as the god's Test. Togo tells this afterwards ofcourse. You and your party (15 man orso) starts a mission where you and your party encounter an enormeus creature (so big you gotto kills bodyparts O.o???) blocking the way to the mists. Once killed the creature resurretcs himself and the party has to start again to kill him. But then Shiro, Rurik, Varesh and Khilbrom pop up. Telling your party how to defeat it once and for all and buffing up the party. Making it a little easier. But the Creature ofcourse did not stay behind and summoned alot of backup creature's. Just my idea of an epic battle in GW^^.<font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 10:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This actually sounds better in my head. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 12:40, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I think rurik and togo didnt get into rot because they were to ugly. Think about it, Rurik,a bloody ugly zombie in your house. Togo, an old stupid and boring man with ordinary clothes and not very exciting. If i would be abbadon, i would like to have kuunavang in RoT, shes soo cool. 90.227.214.131 19:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Ok that was mean to togo and rurik. Rurik is actually pretty cool as a zombie truth is i liked him more zombie than not zombie. Togo however is not boring but i liked it when he died. But sadly he does have bad clothes,it would be nice if the good guys in gw2 could have cool and spiky armor. I cant think of so many ppl (correct me if im wrong) that have cool armor except for the characters.Simpaklimp 11:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Justiciar Hablion had a very neat armor, that I wish our charas could get. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 19:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Alliance Roster
Hello again my alliance peers have been talking about this subject for quite some time now and since I had went and figured out how to talk on here with the compass issue which I await an answer to I decided to ask what would your staff think of having an option to check other guilds in the alliance activity and membership to keep an active friendly community for everyone rather than having empty ones and only guessing by days not typed in alliance chat that they no longer function as well as making space for friends on friends list since there is no other way to know if an alliance member friend is on without a roster. I'll be stopping by to check for a reply quite often looking forward to it.--Tim the Ranger 11:57, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * We need to sort out the licensing issues before the team can look at suggestions. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 01:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Skill Balance Leaks at GameFAQs.com Guild Wars Message Board
Hi Regina, I just wanted to report that someone over at GameFAQs.com was leaking skill updates as early as May 7th see here. Maybe ArenaNet needs to keep a closer eye on your beta testers. Loves to Sync 03:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * More development leaks: Loves to Sync 03:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately people leak these things all the time. The Elite skill updates were leaked, etc etc etc. The update notes were spread around in-game which is how I found out about them mostly (besides a guild having the notes that was later linked on Guru). The people on the balance forums also don't count as beta testers since they don't "test" anything per se. You give people an NDA, and a few people out of a hundred are gonna break it. People tell their friends, and one of those friends tells their friends, and those friends tell their friends.... DarkNecrid 03:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So, what about them wells, then? I was hopeful... [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 04:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I do agree with the comment on the bottom of that link 000.00.00.00 23:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a traitor among us... I mean, 'among you'... the lolcat was right! Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 12:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * IMHO the whole concept of hiding the skill changes and releasing them to certain players is dumb. It usually gets leaked to the PvP base about a week before the update... why can't the help the other people out a bit and post it on some public forums? Also, they should NEVER post PvE skill changes on the skill balance site because players can abuse other players that don't know about the update. For example, when/if shadowform gets nerf'd Ecto prices will shoot back up to 5.5k @ trader again, and eventually higher if their is no viable way to clear the thing in 20 minutes anymore. Same thing with RoJ, if that gets nerfed FoWsc will also be dead.--<font color="Black">Ñö Ẋ  ĭƑý' [[Image:User_NoXiFy_Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 22:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Music "feel"
hey, wouldnt it be awesome if gw2 or something got music like runescape(gw is way better than runescape) so that every time you enter a new area it has a new soundtarck to it so you get that special feel, gw sort of has it but not that much as runescape.--Simpaklimp 09:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Every area in GW has its own specific theme already. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 12:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This is a GW2 suggestion. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 18:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Jeremy Soule has composed music for almost every area in the game (not necessarily every explorable area/ town, but every province). Some areas even fluctuate between a few songs specific to the province. In fact, I feel his music is one of the few relics of GW's awesome past that is still intact. (I just feel that tonics have generalized every area so that each campaign doesn't have the specific, PvE feel they used to have.)-- BVt  19:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, Runescape's music is generic and emotionless...I don't see how you get a special feel from it; it's like the devs of Runescape didn't want to hire a composer, so they did it themselves. The Guild Wars music is almost like a movie soundtrack, like any RPG's music should be. :P-- BVt  19:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Update leaks
Hi Regina, I would like to share some feelings about something that lately happens every month in the community and that makes me quite uncomfortable. Every weeks before skill update has become a "hunt for leaks". Most of the time, someone post a screen of a post on an unofficial forum signed by an Anet's staff member with every changes coming. I won't comment on the fact that some people know before others which creates some unequality within the community, after all things like that happens in every field of society. What puzzles me is the fact that on "elite fansite", every posts dealing with leaks are deleted (the leaks themselves and comments as well). There is no official reason, just a "our elite fansite status makes such posts unappropriate". Reading this (and regarding the fact it happens every month) always makes think about censorship. As communtity manager I wanted to know what is your (and Anet of course) statement on leaks. Would you think it is fair if a leak has been found that even elite fansite are allowed to spread them or do you think the actual behavior is right? In that case, is there something planned to avoid such things to happen in the future? Thanks for letting me share my point of view ;) Cornflakeboy 19:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything posted on a fansite by someone other than a developer is most likely not true. Similarities can be drawn to the "predicted" changes, but beyond that, there are fictitious. As such, some fansites may choose to delete these posts right off the bat, and as for the running of fansites, I don't think ANet has ever been in the business of saying or asking fansites to run things a certain way, beyond the guidelines they ask for in the "Elite" fan-site category.  Drago  19:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The last 4 I've seen were true. As a matter of fact, 100% of 3 of them were true and 98% of one was true. That's not the reason. NDA's are the reason. Anet employees can get fired for breaking their NDA's and any legitimate fansite wont host the leaks because they could cause some serious trouble for Anet, NC Soft, whichever employee happened to originally post the leak, and possibly even the site that posts it. NDA's are a big legal mess that's not worth dealing with. Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:46, 18 June 2009  (UTC)
 * as far as I know, they're being leaked by one of the players registered on izzy's super secret balance forums of doom... that... don't exist. Not an actual Anet employee. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  03:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Questions on Dervishes
Hello to you.

I had a few questions about balance in terms of classes that hopefully you can either answer to direct to someone whom knows. I play a dervish, which is supposed to be a tank or one of the tanks in the game. That's at least the definition I gather from the wikipedia and from the lore of the game. However, as a tank I am a bit...curious about a few things...

[Mysticism] = Restores energy when enchantment ends? Rather then be helpful to the tanking process such as reducing damage or increasing damage done, it provides energy. Normally I could understand this as it helps a Dervish use skills for attacking and healing with a few problems.

Every dervish attack requires energy, there are no adrenaline attacks thus whatever is coming in is quickly consumed. This combined with the fact that many of the enchantments are expensive (10 or more) for limited use means as a dervish I rarely have enough energy to do both. So I end up as either a glass cannon or a tank who can't deal much damage.

Compare that to a ranger's [Expertise] where skills are free, a warrior who can both significantly boost their health and penetrate armor with [Strength], an assassin who's [Critical Strikes] can help block and ignore armor means that dervishes suffer as a tanking class in comparison.

Suggestions to make [Mysticism] more powerful? Every level of [Mysticism] adds +1% to base damage, or every level adds +1% to armor penetration, or every level adds +1% to damage reduction, or even every level adds +20 health to the character. You could also have as a percentage to block useful when using Mirage Cloak, or attack speed, or even increases the amount of healing received by %2 per level.

There are lots of possibilities, and when you compare it to other primaries such as [Strength], [Leadership], [Expertise], or [Critical Strikes] you can see it's not unbalanced to the other classes.

~There some other problems with dervishes but I'm not certain how to cure them.~

Often times a warrior/assassin/ranger can use a scythe with a better effect then a dervish because of improved armor penetration or improved chance to critical hit.

In PvE if you go to use a avatar (one of the true strengths of the dervish) you can be interrupted, thus reducing the skill to little effect (and sometimes you interrupt yourself when the form ends). In PvP many characters simply kite the dervish (since the dervish must close to sword swinging range to hit). They wait for the avatar to run out and strike quickly. This compared to a ranger/warrior/sin who is often in a stance (sins especially with critical defenses) or rangers with whirling defenses mean that without a secondary the dervish is going to suffer 1 on 1 versus these classes (A Dervish mission a secondary compared to a assassin missing a secondary as an example). Other classes become extremely deadly based on a secondary. Dervishes often must rely on a secondary to overcome primaries (Stsnce removal, increased damage, armor, healing, condition/hex removal)

In addition to all of this I am curious about a few skills that seem to be lacking from dervish; I am still confused why 'Banishing Strike', 'Eremite's Attack', 'Irresistible Sweep', 'Mystic Sweep', 'Pious Assault', 'Reap Impurities', 'Rending Sweep', 'Twin Moon Sweep', and 'Victorious sweep' are 'Melee Attacks' but every other weapon set besides 'Tactics' is listed as 'Axe Attack' 'Sword Attack' 'Dagger Attack'. This means that other professions can use them without holding a scythe but the reverse is not true.

[A few other things to note about dervishes] ~There are 2 elites for Scythe Mastery, most other weapon sets have at least 3. ~They suffer an armor reduction to warriors/paragons especially lacking a shield. ~They possess weapons that have such a wide damage range that often times it results in doing less damage then a sword. ~They possess no resistance/protection to elemental skills ~They possess no adrenaline skills to use scythe or improve their health, or enter stances like warriors. ~They possess no interrupt skills. ~They possess no knockdown skills. ~They possess no stance removal skills. ~They possess no ability to auto critical hit (wild blow), or improve chance of critical hits. ~They possess no ability to use poison, and burning is not reliable enough to spike with. (3 seconds) ~They possess no hex removal skills (besides Avatar of Dwyana) ~They possess no condition removal skills. (besides Avatar of Melandru)

[Avatar Question] ~Avatar of Grenth/Melandru swing a scythe significantly slower then Dwyana, Lyssa, and even Balthazar.

~For using a two handed weapon they have non-effective block skills (15 energy for 50% which can be topped by monks 75%) and suffer a penalty for using a two handed weapon (only +30 health instead of +60 like most two-handed staves, and no +30 health since they can't use shields)

~Compare 'Mystic Regeneration' to 'Shadow Refuge' - 10 energy for +3 regeneration (typically) for each enchantment on you (takes time to cast multiple enchantments and they don't last long) to 5 energy with +8 regeneration and healing once it ends.

In the end dervishes draw a lot of aggro and often times are unable to survive it without aid from clerics. Paragons and Tanks can reduce damage, assassins and rangers can block, and monks and Elementalists can protect or prot themselves from damage, and Ritualist can absorb life.

[Other notes] I know this seems like a lot to take in and try to find answers to but it'd help others I believe understand the class better. If the dervish is meant to be a damage dealer and not a tank, then they still are outclassed by assassins and rangers (especially such classes using a Dervish as a secondary as opposed to the primary).

[Must know the answer to this] I've wondered this one for awhile and it's really the only question I'm looking for answer for. Why is that that Avatar Forms do not actually look like the representations of the gods? We've seen Dwyana and Balthazar which look nothing like like the avatars we have. Shouldn't the avatar forms resemble the appearance of the Gods?

--Dealaka 11:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A very well-thought complain. However I have to argue with the proposed change to mysticism: +20 health / ranks would be god-damn powerful, just like IAS or base damage buff.
 * However, you are right with your opinion regarding dervishes. They simply lack of role, just like ritualists and paragons. GW was balanced around the 6 core professions and they simply couldn't add more professions without breaking the game(#off:just look at assassins: can either deal more damage than warriors and can skill to be better tanks than warriors). Dervishes now lack of good tanking capability, they have less pressure than other professions, and they lack of good energy management options.
 * Sadly it doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong, as the GWLT is currently incapable of processing suggestions, so you are in a pretty bad case right now. --- just a left note: fixed your text with line breaks -- Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 11:36, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Dealaka: Your initial assumption was wrong. There is no specific 'tanking' class in the game like there exists in other MMOs (being in melee range does not imply being a 'tank' in GW), and if there is any one class that comes closest to it, Dervish is certainly not it.  Mysticism is meant to be something exploited by enchantment-heavy team builds, not nearly as much a self-reliant pool of energy; you compare it to Expertise and Leadership, but many argue those are broken as-is.  Once the problem of energy is satisfied, Dervishes are largely meant to deal big damage; the scythe does 9-41 damage, and Eremite's Attack and Mystic Sweep are, all around, your two best scythe attacks because you can easily fulfill the conditional damage.  Spammable deep wound via Wounding Strike is good regardless of where you are in the game.  There are plenty of other good damage-oriented skills I'm not listing.
 * In short: Guild Wars is a team game. You ought to be building your team to play to the strengths and cover the weaknesses of the classes in it.  With dervishes this obviously means buffing them with enchantments to add damage and cover their low AL, while fueling them with energy via Mysticism. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  17:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Read pls.
 * The first thing you mentioned was mysticism. I partially agree with you about its implementation; it requires dervishes to run with enchantment-heavy builds in order to be effective.  While Attacker's Insight at r4+ is usually enough to fuel whatever scythe attack skills you need, Mysticism won't really shine until you have monks with Patient and RoF, Guardian and SoA, Holy Veil and Spirit Bond.  But in cases where Mysticism is triggering from outside sources, it provides energy management almost on par with Expertise or Critical Strikes.
 * You then mentioned Avatars. One thing I feel compelled to mention is that most Avatars aren't worth the elite slot.  It basically equates to you being "okay" half the time and without an elite the other half of the time.  I strongly advise another elite.
 * Then there's the "Melee Attack" v "Scythe Attack" dilemma. While hammer warriors with Eremite's Attack are pretty sexy, Dervishes with Bull's Strike are 110% full of win.  A lot of good warrior skills (Protector's Strike, Bull's Strike, and even Skull Crack if you're looking for lulz) are melee attacks, while most of the best scythe attacks (Wounding Strike, Crippling Sweep, Chilling Victory) are reserved for scythes only.  True, you won't get +35 damage on Bull's Strike.  But if you land it, it's a crit, anyway, and so you're already going to be doing huge scythe-crit damage.
 * The "there are only two elite scythe attacks" point is something that's bothered me for a while, but that's mostly due to the lack of other scythe attack skills. Namely, Dervishes have no clean non-elite Deep Wound skill.  Pious Assault comes close, but after the numerous nerfs, it's hardly worth the ten energy unless you can guarantee that you won't lose any worthwhile enchantment.  And Wearying Strike has that whole Weakness clause attached to it.  That really limits dervish bars as far as elite variety (you need to run one of the scythe elites for reliable Deep Wound). :/
 * Scythes have the capacity to do less damage than a sword, and it's pissed me off on many a spike. "Oh, come on!  Forty damage Mystic Sweep?!"  But, on that note, axes (the other big domage weapon) have an even *smaller* minimum.  Scythes and axes really shine, though, for their enormous critical damage.  In that regard, scythes are the single highest-damage weapons.  While the cost of that is being relatively slow (which leads to weak pressure), attack skills like Mystic Sweep and Eremite's Attack that bypass that drawback have made dervishes, again, a largely spike-oriented damage class.
 * Lack of disruptive ability is one of the key things that makes Dervishes weak. When a monk puts up Guardian, you have to hit tab.  But because your spike skills have no recharges, it's relatively easy to hit tab and remove something from the game.  It's a very different playstyle than that of a warrior or assassin (they can train things to death, you can't), but it's effective, especially in close-quarters environments like HA.  If you're good at quarterstepping (which is easy to do with scythes' slow attack speed), you can reduce the time it takes you to switch targets to almost nothing and put out a lot of pressure.
 * Dervishes have the same stance removal as assassins: Wild Blow.
 * Dervs *are* pretty squishy. I run 490 to 565 Health on mine (depending on my Scythe Mastery rune).  My armor is runed out in full Windwalker's and I run a Defense mod (instead of the Fortitude), so I've usually got more armor than a hammer warrior.  And with a corresponding rune of Mastery, the health difference is also pretty small (due to dervs' inherent +25).  If I find myself in need of more health, it's not hard to swap to a shield set until I'm healed.
 * Lastly, as to "protection against elemental damage, hex removal, and condition removal", I've got to disagree; it's called "you have 8 people in your party, bring some monks", as Auron so elegantly put it. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  18:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I always considered Dervishes to be the most powerful melee class there is, especially in terms of damage. And they have plenty of skills to boost their weaker defense. 145.94.74.23 06:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dervishes are only used because scythes do so much damage. If scythe attack skills were any cheaper or more powerful than they are now (Victorious Sweep, for example is better than Thrill of Victory, but it also comes with conditional Orison of Healing, all in one skill), there simply wouldn't be any sense in playing GW at all. One of the biggest issues in combat is energy management. While Mysticism isn't on par with Energy Storage, Soul Reaping or Expertise in terms of energy management, it comes with many powerful supportive skills which are available to Dervish only. Heart of Fury, avatar forms, Mystic Vigor and few others are all viable and widely used skills. Before Factions there was very limited amount or no skills for certain primary attributes at all, because they were considered very powerful.
 * Factions brought the Assassin profession, with Critical Strikes as their primary attribute. It vastly increases your chance to hit critically (comparing to Strength here), but it also returned energy each time you crit... and the attribute also had a line of very powerful utility skills like Critical Defenses and Critical Eye, which both greatly benefit from their attribute in a way no other primary attributes' skills do. After some more or less serious nerfage of Critical Strikes, A/D's became less common view in PvP... but Dervish primaries didn't make a real comeback either. Instead, R/D's popped up, and you guys know what's wrong with that.
 * Shortly said, making Mysticism more powerful would cause problems. It would allow Dervish primaries to spam their Wounding Strike and other scythe attack skills alongside their Earth and Wind Prayers skills even more often and without really caring about additional energy management. It'd end up in a way like how Mind Blast eles are today... spam Mind Blast and Distortion.
 * Perhaps if scythe attack skills didn't have such great bonus damage, Mysticism could get a very small buff... Maybe even just buffing Mysticism skills would be enough. Mediggo 07:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I use a Scythe (along with Scy Attacks too) in one of my Warrior's spiking builds just for HardMode and Energy was NOT a problem. If anything, Dervish is TOO versatile and Survivable as a "Casting" platform because of Mysticism.  It may not be an Earth-Tank Ele but it doesn't require near the point investments and minmaxing to get near there.  So as a fairly mediocre player who's Main is a Dervish, I have to disagree with this post.  Dervishes don't need a Buff, dervish aren't the easiest class to Start off with like I did, but they don't run nearly as "Hot-or-Cold" as Paragons, Assassins, and Rits do. -- ilr  08:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * a) This isn't the place for this at all. b) They don't look like the Gods because they are Avatars. Avatars are incarnations of a god in some manifest shape. In fact, in Hindu beliefs (which is where Avatars come from) they were human or animal forms. DarkNecrid 15:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * True this isn't the place for this, but obviously people want certain professions (in this case the dervish) to have clearly defined and effective rolls. Not only do we people want this, but they are passionate about it too.  I see suggestiongs all over this wiki.  I have suggestions myself.  I would like to see the 4 non-core professions see attention myself, and basically that's what everyone posting here is saying (in addition to their opinions on the changes of course).<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 20:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They had Unique roles that set them apart. ...Then they got Nerfed. (except for SF assassins who were given Godmode in PvE for no apparent reason) -- ilr  07:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Mediggo: The passive effect of Energy Storage doesn't give you energy management. I think you meant Leadership instead. As for Mysticism, it kinda depends on your team, but a prot monk can go a long way in giving you lots of energy. 145.94.74.23 06:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, I think when I'm saying Energy Storage, I mean Energy Storage. =P That whole attribute is for managing health and energy (and haxor spikes with Energy Blast) if you look at the Energy Storage skills, rather than the inherent +3 energy per each rank effect. Mediggo 07:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a big difference between a passive energy management effect, and containing skills that manage energy. If you take Expertise, you get a energy management and still have room to pick any skill you like. If you take Energy Storage, you will need spend skill slots. That's more or less the same as the difference between gaining energy whenever an enchantment ends on you, or having to use Lyssa's Assault to gain some energy. And that's excluding the fact that most Elementalists use attunements instead (bypassing Energy Storage's skills completely) or the fact that passive effects are unremovable. 145.94.74.23 11:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying there's no difference, but the access to primary attribute inherent effect and attribute's skills remains same (aside from GoLE, Bull's Strike and such). Mediggo 12:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

"b) They don't look like the Gods because they are Avatars. Avatars are incarnations of a god in some manifest shape." The Sins we die by. A.) If this really is the case, then why do the avatars of Dwayna and Grenth look different for wintersday then ours? They're both Avatars of the Gods. --Dealaka 08:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because a God doesn't have just one avatar, it's just an incarnation of themselves they typically use to appear in the mortal realm. The Hindu god Vishnu had 10 avatar incarnations for example: including fish, tortoise, boar, half man/half lion, dwarf, and a prince among others. It's just a material manifestation of what is otherwise an immaterial spiritual being. DarkNecrid 12:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or are they? Mediggo 12:04, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To address some of the dervish questions... especially in comparasons to Warriors...
 * ~There are 2 elites for Scythe Mastery, most other weapon sets have at least 3.
 * Indeed, but those classes are also not as new… Comparing apples to apples the paragon also has 2 spear elites… also looking across Dervish elites it could be argued that a few of the Mysticism Forms directly impact scythe use…
 * ~They suffer an armor reduction to warriors/paragons especially lacking a shield.
 * Under Earth Prayers you will find an array of self healing and damage reduction/negation that warriors and paragons cannot have… and with mysticism high enoughand your extra 2 pips of energy regen they cost you practically no energy!
 * ~They possess weapons that have such a wide damage range that often times it results in doing less damage then a sword.
 * The swords max is also about half of the scythes max (without modifiers)… if you want more reliable damage choose a more reliable weapon… Swords have always been the more consistant even compared to the other warrior weapon ranges… Your Dervish is welcome to secondary as a warrior and pick up a sword…
 * ~They possess no resistance/protection to elemental skills
 * Again check Earth Prayers for damage reduction (yes even elemental damage reduction) Regeneration and healing…
 * ~They possess no adrenaline skills to use scythe or improve their health, or enter stances like warriors.
 * This just in… you’re a dervish, not a warrior… combined with your mysticism look to your own enchantments for improving health… if stances are your thing take a secondary, tho your better off without many of them if you stick to your own profession… And the warrior has given up alot to be master of stances and adren, put that with the fact that a warrior can’t go outside of profession to find adren attacks and wars are limited also… also I count 7 stances you do have (not adren based)…
 * ~They possess no interrupt skills.
 * Correct, but you have great self healing, and you carry the right conditions to be a master vs physical attackers… you have a form that doubles your already huge scythe damage vs casting foes and you can cause huge AoE damage and regain the energy as your enchantments drop…
 * ~They possess no knockdown skills.
 * Again correct, but see above comment...
 * ~They possess no stance removal skills.
 * See above… but also, I see Many dervish take a secondary to use Wild Blow better then warriors do due to not needing the adren and loving the free unblockable and it’s a critical ontop of that!
 * ~They possess no ability to auto critical hit (wild blow), or improve chance of critical hits.
 * See above about wild blow… But if you read thru the scythe skills carefully, your scythe is used and improves about every enchantment you use. It’s not just a weapon to a dervish…
 * ~They possess no ability to use poison, and burning is not reliable enough to spike with. (3 seconds)
 * You can name off almost every other condition in the book and the derv has it in many reusable forms… add that 3 secs of burning to 4 secs of burning you get from the other enchant that you did not mention as well as the HOLY damage it deals and yes, you can make things hurt….  Not many professions outside of Necro and Ranger have methods for dealing poison... consider runnign a secondary for that...
 * ~They possess no hex removal skills (besides Avatar of Dwyana)
 * You named one at least… let’s look at the warrior… hmmm yerrr… ummm… across 4 campaigns they still have none…. Looks like your gonna have to goto your secondary or your backline for that one as other melee classes have too... hexes themselves are often limited to being weaker or only impacting one target if they are strong…
 * ~They possess no condition removal skills. (besides Avatar of Melandru)

Nope, but you have an abundant condition dealing and you have condition duration reduction… lets again look at the warrior for condition removal… hmmm ahhhh ohh heres one “I will survive!” how cool is that it doesn’t even remove the condition, it just kinda draws even with most condition degens… looks like derv and warrior both get to go outside of class or to their backlines on this one…
 * In conclusion... your looking at the scythe and thinking like a warrior, trying to deal as mush dmg as possible in melee, instead of using it as a tool that ustilizes the dervs many many many enchants... MrPaladin talk 14:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I stopped playing Dervish when I understood what the playstyle was... Dervishes are good at what they do, they can AoE dps, they can spike, and they can tank like no tomorrow. But the playstyle was not for me. I stopped playing Dervish because I didn't enjoy self-enchanting. But there's nothing wrong with Dervishes in the roles of tank or dps or spike. To be an effective dervish, you're almost required to run an enchant-heavy build, and cycle those enchants using your attacks to generate a constant flow of energy. That energy is then funneled into self-heals, self-protects, and more damaging skills. The dervish is a melee-range, caster-class, who specializes in self-enchants. Once you understand that, you'll see that a lot of your complaints are just misunderstandings on your part. Your build has to take into account enchants needed to survive, as well as energy flow. If you spend energy faster than you gain it, you need to revise your build. You don't have adrenaline because you're not supposed to need it. You don't have as good defense as warriors, but you have hugely better self-heals. Aside for perma, dervishes are way better tanks than sins in my experience. Warrior's strength is not nearly as good as you think, actually. Dervishes don't need a shield to tank, or higher %crit to do damage. In fact, Dervishes can do a lot of AoE damage via spells. -- Alaris 14:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Alaris. Now however, I must point out that this massive wall of text is really inappropriate on Regina's page. In all of this the only "question" posed is why don't the avatar forms look like the gods they represent? I think further discussion of the pros/cons of playing a dervish could probably find a better home on the Guide to playing a dervish talk page. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 14:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I need help contacting the support
Hi Regina. People are saying that you want to people to report to the support if don't recive the reward points from the XTH, but i don't know how to contact the support and i want to know if you can help me. Thanks for the attention. Durzal 89.180.134.206 09:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is a link: Support. Use the web support or e-mail support. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  09:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Pipedream Possibilities
Just throwing a link in, to a fun idea someone on GWG had. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10382830 I know exactly how unlikely it would be, but it would be nice if it happened. --EbeneezerSquid 23:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)