Feedback talk:User/BobbyT/Skill Changes (Assassin)

Shadow Shroud - useless Shadow Walk - useless Shadow Fang - overpowered Shroud of Silence - why? Lift Enchantment - overpowered in this state of the game  Koda   Kumi  16:10, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Shadow shroud would be use at the start of a combo and take effect during it, would be useful if target can't be enchant in any way, current form allows some enchanting, this would stop it. A shadowstep that doesn't require a target but instead depend on which way your facing is useless? select your target, run towards it and hit this you you still step to them, would work for allies too. Shadow fang, maybe, but some control over this is better than none, maybe take out the return function and keep the deepwound. Shroud of silence, utility skill during a combo is alway nice and would be better than it's current form imo. Life enchantment, another maybe, would removing a enchantment from a KD you cause work? oppose to a KD coming from anywhere, maybe up the recharge a bit too--BobbyT 17:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You can use this version of shadowfang to get a free DW. That is problematic, not returning to your original location. Also:
 * <>
 * Please come back when you know what a spike is. Here is a hint: you can kill something with it.
 * Lift enchantment is just wrong with Entangling Asp in the game.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  10:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I did said combo right? not spike. i can have a combo to do pressure or just to annoy people (interuppt, snare, etc). And  that where your utility fit in.
 * i've up'd the recharge and cast time to meet other enchantment removeal spell, honestly this is not any better that other skills like it, plus doesn't seening this hex up tell the other team whats going to happen soon. and hey it might combo well with Asp, (i was thinking iron palm my self), but thats two skills to remove a enchantment. not that gamebreaking imo.--BobbyT 21:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

My opinion on this:
 * Shadow Shroud: The idea is pretty potent, use this with a midliner on their prot during a spike or if you want to just make a target unprottable. The duality of this skill is what makes it interesting and potentially overpowered.
 * Shadow Walk: Also pretty potent, makes it possible to return to your old location every 20 seconds. As it has no considerable downside, this might get used quite a bit as a replacement of Recall.
 * Shadowy Burden: Minor change, can have quite an impact though.
 * Shadow Meld: Bad idea. Permanent Dash with a possibility to return any time you want, that's VERY powerful.
 * Shadow Fang: I don't agree with KK, 45 recharge is a pain. If you really want a ranged Deep Wound (which it technically is) Twisting Fangs + any shadowstep is sufficient. This skill does things a bit different than most shadow steps do on a 45 recharge. I don't know whether that's really useful, let alone overpowered.
 * Shroud of Silence: Too conditional. Daze is potent, but this just isn't worth it.
 * Lift Enchantment: Dunno, the question is whether you can always pull of a KD when your team needs to remove an Enchantment or whether spending two skills to remove one enchantment is worth it. I don't think this is overpowered in any way, if it is useful at all. Dark Morphon 14:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Shroud, quite possibly, i thought of that, but you always have a fuser somewhere, and once target gets above 50% the effect stop, i don't think it would be too bad, you have any suggestion
 * Walk, isn't that what current fuction does, but instead of a target foe step witha return step you get non-targetable step with a return step, anyways i add another version to it one with out a return step and you have just a easy way to get around then.
 * Meld, funny thing about AoD is that when i see it the sin use it, i alway strip it and watch him get sent back, then lulz. i don't think this would be any different except trading a step for ims, and i don't believe it's that powerful considering that a 4 pip toon is gaining no enrgy while it's on
 * Fang, yeah 45 sec is not a pretty rechage for a skill like this, but a skill like this would be OP for a recharge any less then what it is, i added another verison like i did for walk,  basically reduce the 45 and got rid of the return function.
 * Lift Enchantment, did some testing with the current Lift, when you KD, you are able to get in attack skill (i.e Falling Spider) and use this if need, tho it not that easy to do, the fact that you need 2 skill to remove one enchantment doesn't change, being able to pecast this as a hex before your combo opens up alot more use imo
 * --BobbyT 01:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Shroud of Silence: I kinda like it, it's powerful but only in the right situation. I don't think it needs a change.
 * Shadow Walk: In that case, I would suggest to drastically decrease the recharge. I think 20 recharge is alright with the return and 10 without it.
 * Shadow Meld: You have to think about GvG and splits here. AoD is a very powerful skill there as it allows you to teleport around their base. Your version also allows that but gives a 50% movement increase on top of it. The -3 energy degeneration (we both know that that's the value here) is not really going to stop them as they don't have that degen while attacking.
 * Shadow Fang: I would definitely say your second version is overpowered as it opens up the way for Hex based combo's without needing Twisting Fangs to inflict a Deep Wound. The return on your first suggestion is very nice but is also making sure you won't be continuing your combo. For that reason, I suggest you scrap the second one and stick with the first one. Maybe give the first version a 30 recharge and -40 armor while it's up?
 * Lift Enchantment: Yeah, your change definitely makes it more useful. I still doubt it will see serious use but it's definitely better than the current version. Also, I think you'd better not listen to Koda Kumi when it comes to Assassins as he thinks any skill that has the remotest possibility to synergise with an assacaster (even if it's a terrible combination) is broken and that Palm Strike Assassins and Assacasters are the only Assassin builds that are being used. Definitely not a good point of view if you want to balance the game as these builds are broken and shouldn't exist to begin with. Balancing skills around them is foolish. Dark Morphon 14:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * While you do have a point, these feedback pages were designed to make it easy to look at different opinions on overpowered and underpowered skills on a skill-by-skill base, which means looking at each idea and how it would fit in the game as it is now. So, while this Lift Enchantment by itself is a great idea, at this moment (with things like Entangling Asp still viable) it would be too abusable.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  15:55, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Removing Enchantments on Assacasters isn't that much of an improval to their abilities anyway. There's definitely better skills you could use in that spot. Dark Morphon 15:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that Discharge Enchantment provides you with an unconditional removal anyway, if needed. Dark Morphon 16:04, 28 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, looking at other dis-enchantment skill being used atm like drain, shatter, strip and rip, they can seen as being better than lift when in a team format, also looking as the assacaster build, not much you can add to it where an enchantment removal will fit or would be needed, i usually put points into shadow for a self heal or res sig, and don't really bother with it anything else. i not seeking this to become meta, just ease of use.
 * SoS is powerful, thats why it got nerf to this point. If the right situation doesn't happen, what then? your stuck with 15 sec of no spells. My version would also be useful in the right situation, but with a good requirment imo and not a heavy drawback, I see this more as a start to a finshing combo, if that makes sense :\
 * i really don't see Meld as a problem for gvg, you got to think of the difference between AoD and this, AoD is a step and its hard to prevent buddy from getting in there. as Meld is a IMS, and in this game there just as many skills to decrease your speed as there is to increase, which will be on most if not all flagger and ranger bars anyways,
 * i really just trying different opinions on walk and fang and make changes that way, i believe 15 sec will do for the second walk, looking at fang again, the first idea make it a get in there do your combo and get out skill. since you wouldn't want to be in there for to long, your idea would fit. So think a frenzy type of effect would be right. Second idea i would agree would be problematic, i was think of adding a downside to the second like attack skill disable after you next dual along with the DP on you target forcing you to leave that way.
 * -- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|20x20px]] 01:48, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Lift: That's fine, but wouldn't something like: 5e 1c 10r, "Spell. Target foe loses an Enchantment. If an Enchantment was removed, for 5 seconds, that foe can't be knocked down and takes X damage." be better? I know it's not ideal but the idea of turning the stuff around (removing an Enchantment and disallowing KDs instead of triggering ON KD) seems like a more useful niche to me.
 * I was talking about Shadow Shroud and how I thought your version would be fine. Concerning Shroud of Silence, maybe give it the same function as it has now but Daze instead of disallowing Spells? That way, it can be buffed up a bit.
 * That may be true but a maintainable 50% speed increase is simply too much and not comparable to a single shadow step. If you really want to keep this function I would say 33% speed increase would be a better number.
 * Anyway. Dark Morphon 10:12, 1 December 2009 (UTC)