Talk:Vanquisher/Archive1

Vanquisher vs Guardian
whats the difference between this and guardian? (Dubby 18:07, 9 April 2007 (EDT))
 * Noone but people working in A-Net know at this stage. They haven't announced what this title is about yet. --Aspectacle 18:53, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
 * My guess is that one of them requires you to complete all missions, while the other one requires you to complete all missions and bonuses. -- Gordon Ecker 21:18, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
 * I had guessed more along the lines of Guardian being given for a single campaign, while Vanquisher being given to those who complete the missions and bonuses for all campaigns in hard mode. Should find out what it actually is fairly soon.--Zemmy 22:02, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Awesome! Sounds like a sweet title! (Information released on official site) Sirocco 13:42, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Mob on Mob
So can you earn vanquisher in an area if the mobs aren't all killed by your party? For example, some enemies will become hostile to each other and kill each other (like at the beginning of the infusion run in Ice Caves). Will it still work towards vanquisher for that area? --  Vallen Frostweaver  10:40, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Yep. I watched two Naga Welps kill a Sensali Fighter in Sunqua Vale last night - it updated my counter, and I went on to vanquish the area.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 11:47, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

If you vanquish an area,then trigger a popup, what happens to the counter? --John Deathblade 21:25, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Edit: just saw the answser to that in article. dont know how, can someone slash my comment please? --John Deathblade 21:27, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
 * As long as the Popup occurs AFTER you vanquish a zone, it will not affect overall killcount. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:ElementGaming.
 * Yes ElementGaming, John mentioned that he read that from the article. And John, to strike out, you use html tags . But you don't really need to strikeout. -- ab.er. rant  [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 00:49, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Neutral Animals
I've read some ppl who claim u need to kill yellow circled pets and some that claim they got completion w/o it and even capped a pet after completion. This needs to be looked at further.Wongba 13:30, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
 * http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2747133&postcount=2 Wongba 13:36, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
 * looks like popups don't count unless found and yellow circle pets don't count unless aggro'd. Wongba 16:51, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Detail of Explorable Areas
Useful info, but I would suggest not here. When the list is finished, it will be HUGE. I don't have access to the figures at the moment, but there are, what was it? 40-odd? ...areas in Tyria alone. IMO the list of how many kills per area needs to be on a separate page or even as a note on the page for each specific area. ...but I've left it here for now cos I'm not that bold ^^ -- Snog  rat  19:38, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
 * actually ill help with the numbers, when vanquishing 1 area it gives you a title like this 1/54. so i may assume that there are 54 areas to be vanquished in Tyria alone, cantha and elona both have around that number of areas too (maybe a bit less) so yes, a list of ~150 areas properly grouped by their region name would take alot of space. not sure how exactly, but they could be put in a table with 3 columns maybe... 1 for every chapter, however this raises the issue what to do when they add a hard mode in regions from future expantions/ updates. Saelfaer 20:07, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
 * I see little point of this list here, the number is never the same, so you would need a range, I would think these would be better on the individual article pages then forming a massive list here. -- Lemming64 20:10, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Or have the list on this talk page until finished or nearly finished? Then we can link to it, or put it in the ecplorable area articles. But this is a good place to put it on, so people easily can find it. - Anja [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|Anja Astor]] (talk)  03:13, 21 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Or we can discuss it until we're blue in the face while people merrily stick them in there anyway ^_^ -- Snog  rat [[Image:User Snograt signature.png]] 15:47, 21 April 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree with Snograt and Lemming64, if it continues this way this article will be about as long as the discussion on Builds. If the detail section is deleted and links added for the each campaign with the title, that is Prophecies Vanquisher and so on (would be 3 Vanquisher pages and 3 on Guardian pages. These new pages then would hold the links to all the areas, or missions that apply. Most all of these pages already exist, so at the bottom just above notes we can use for Hard Mode details. As far as the difference in the foes, a simple (Hard Mode Lvl 22) after each type of foe already listed. I have done a little work for an example on my User page.--Jimmy 15:44, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

Places that (don't) count
Took the liberty of counting each and every area. Anyway, copy/paste this over to the Notes if you want to. I just found it useful to know at least.


 * The 54 areas in Tyria includes all areas that you see on the world map. However, Sorrow's Furnace, which is underground and considered an explorable area, does not count.


 * The 33 areas in Cantha includes all areas that you see on the world map. However, the Undercity, which is both underground and an explorable area, does not count as well.


 * The 34 areas in Elona includes all areas that you see on the world map. This time, places like Bahdok Caverns and The Hidden City of Ahdashim do count.  The Realm of Torment areas, though, do not count.

In short, any explorable place that you can see on your world map is an area that you can clear out. &mdash; Sixshot 10:03, 21 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Thanks, that's nice to know. Maybe should be included in the article also :) - Anja [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|Anja Astor]] (talk)  10:06, 21 April 2007 (EDT)
 * You forgot Lion's Gate in Tyria. That area also doesn't count. BlazeRick 09:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There are other places that don't count. Linnok Courtyard in Cantha comes to mimd, and probably the Pier next to the Marketplace(forgot its name) or the pier near Kaineng (seems I have a bad memory for piers, eh). In any event these places have no enemies in them, so there wouldn't be much to vanquish anyway. Azo 07:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Shadow's Passage
ok, question. the article says that when a pop up group spawns they count towards the kill count, but i was in the shadow passage when i came upon a pop up group of jade brotherhood. when i took them out i still had 2 groups left ahead of me till i got to the next area. they were already there(meaning didnt pop up) but after i killed the pop up group i got credit for vanguishing ALL foes. the same thing happened to me in Saoshang Trail, when i got to the last mantid the group came out of the trees and i killed maybe half(not sure but i know i had some left to kill) and again was given the reward. im not complaining or anything but just wondering if its a glitch or maybe we get a little leeway with hard mode?! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.211.138.192.


 * I think Shadow's passage is a bugged area, more ppl have reported that they don't have to kill everything to get the vanquisher point there. - Anja [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|Anja Astor]] (talk)  07:28, 22 April 2007 (EDT)


 * so a rare bug that is in favor of the players. nice! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.211.138.192.


 * Yes, makes a nice change! By the way, please sign your comments using 4 tildes (~) so we can keep track of who said what. Better yet - make an account and come and join the fun :) -- Snog  rat [[Image:User Snograt signature.png]] 14:14, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Zen daijun
I just entered Zen Daijun, and there were afflicted there... and i didnt have that quest 'An Unwelcome Guest' so i believe the info is on the article page is wrong. Maybe they fixed it already. - Saelfaer 04:22, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Just tested this 15 minutes ago - works fine. I have all missions made in Cantha and had no quests in my log. --BigBlue [[Image:Monk 20.png]] talk 06:59, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * well i'm sure it will be more than just that 1 quest... i mean, I had a lvl 20 ranger, that Did not finish factions, got only to visuna square. She was not canthan born but Tyrian born. She has 3 quests in her log, (kaineng center quests), and upon entering that zen daijun area, there were large groups of lvl 24 afflicted. - Saelfaer 08:17, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

I had to check my self again just a few minutes ago. Yesterday I went in with just Hero's and there were NO foes. I killed a crane and got the area vanquished. I just did it again with just Hero's and the same thing happened- No foes and when I killed a crane, I got 5 experience points and 3g. I am a Factions character with a Protector title and no missions in Shing Jea Island. When I went in with my wife, who is a Prophecies character- the area is full of afflicted- we didn't complete because she had to go to work- we just wanted to try the area. Maybe a gift from ANet for Faction characters? --Jimmy 09:00, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Just a note: My character was a Canthan, Protector title. --BigBlue [[Image:Monk 20.png]] talk 10:18, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * You have to have completed the quest in question, and the quest is only available to canthan characters as it is an attribute point quest. -- Lemming64 11:52, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * then i suggest a rephrase, more like: 'when the quest An Unwelcome Guest is complete.',  or my english is bad, and i dont understand the current wording it is in. :) - Saelfaer 18:48, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * What happens if a Canthan-born character (with the quest complete) and a Tyrian-born character enter the area together? Are there zero or a ton of foes?~ Kailianna Firesoul 23:08, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
 * There is a ton of foes, whoever is the leader between the canta and tyria character.
 * Jimmy's account above says that's it's an afflicted uprising in that situation ("When I went in with my wife...") -- Snog  rat [[Image:User Snograt signature.png]] 00:15, 25 April 2007 (EDT)
 * does it have to be tyrian or can it be any non-canthan?

Template Use for Killcount
Could it be that some parameters in the tables are in wrong sequence? Almost every row shows a higher average killcount than min and max values? - MSorglos 03:13, 29 April 2007 (EDT) I see that average killcount is calculated, so I'll post this on template page again. - MSorglos 03:15, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Pedant's point
Shouldn't it be "Many more foes" rather than "Much more foes?" - not the world's best grammarficationaliser, but it looks wrong to me -- Snog  rat  10:44, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Someone verify and change it. I started with "Significantly". but it was kinda long so I shortened the word. "Much" was the first word that popped into my head :D -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 08:25, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

bug
is the bug on this page still true? I have never had it happen, nor heard of anyone having it. I am guessing it has either been fixed or never existed. I will remove it soon if no one can verify it. -- Lemming64 22:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It did exist. But have neither seen it recently nor heard much about it lately. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 02:00, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I have removed it for now, if anyone disagrees please discuss it here. -- Lemming64 00:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Eye of the North
Are we going to add a table for EoTn? If so I just vanquished Ice Cliff Chasms and the total foe amount was 157, i didn't kill any animals, and they were no pop ups for me and I covered the entire map looking for popups. Fall 12:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:BOLD. &mdash; Skuld 12:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I added the section, hope table is correct. Fall 13:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * is it still in progress or do some rly have no enemies?84.13.41.144 12:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's still in progress. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 12:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

wealth
If I added up correctly, from the average amount of gold earned you would get around 83 plat 502 gold. Interesting..... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.157.92 (talk &bull; contribs) 12:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC).
 * And I believe that's excluding the gold and item drops plus items from locked chests. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 00:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * the amount of gold that u get is different if u do it twice...so the number 83 plat 502 gold may be high of low &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.85.230.85 (talk &bull; contribs) at 4:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC).

Dungeons
does these have to be done in HM? can they even be done in HM?84.13.41.144 12:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

each dungeon completed gives +10 master of the north points in normal mode and +20 if completed in hard mode. there's no need to vanquish all foes in a dungeon to be credited the points, just beat the final boss. Menzies

Bukdek Byway
I vanquished this area by only killing 1 enemy, it was around 1 hour ago81.77.239.165 23:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What quest did you have on? Ifthis is true.... -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 06:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Can't you just kill the drunken master and get credit? Fall 06:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's on the article page as a note in the table: if you have two specific quests, beating the drunken master earns you the vanquisher. Alaris 15:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the delayed Reply, i have school :'(, the quest i found it to be was "The Afflicted Guard". Hope that helps81.77.239.165 16:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Me again, on diff comp, it turns out i need both Chasing Zenmai AND The Afflicted Gurad OR Chasing Zenmai AND The Drunken Master. -90.240.129.164 02:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Average and XP & gold
The tables can be simplified. First, the average is not necessary (and incorrect) as it only states the average of the min and max (and not the real average). Second, the XP and Gold columns could be combined, as they all have the same numbers. That would remove 2 columns from the tables, which will display better on monitors with lower resolutions. Of course, before being bold, I wanted to check for consensus. Alaris 15:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It makes sense to me, but instead of putting XP or gold put both, you probably were goin to do that anyway though81.77.239.165 16:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was going to put both :) Alaris 19:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What's presented is the Median average, rather than the more well known arithmetic average. For zones where the number of mobs doesn't vary hugely (cos of extra quests), it's probably "close enough" to a true average. For the odd zones where mobs can be reduced to 1 or 2, it's widely off. -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 13:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Ordering Table
I would like to be able to click on "Avergage XP" and have the list ordered in that way, is this possible, i know what you say about be boldetc... but the truth is i cant edit, im too think :(81.77.239.165 18:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how to do this easily. All I can think is to make a second page where the whole table is copied and edited, which is too much work IMHO, especially that this table gets updated pretty frequently. Alaris 19:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, while it certainly would be nice, the template I created to make it easy to calculate the average is incompatible with the script to enable row sorting. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 03:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Min and Max count
The max count depends also on the number of quests that are open when you're going into the area that needs to be vanquished. I really doubt that most max counts are correct. I've seen more than 500 enemies in a group i was in when we tried for Latenda Bog. The average count is much more usefull to me than the max count. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:90.187.61.182.
 * Perhaps, but right now you're not getting the average, or the mode for that matter. You are getting the middle of the range. The mode would be the most likely number of foes you'd have to kill, which would be useful. You could also start a standard measure, where you go there without any quests, and see what number comes up. Alaris 18:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you're saying the min and max are useless and should be removed? Well, while I can certainly hide them, the min and max are what's used to calculate the average. And since min and max must be provided to get an average, why hide information that is available anyway? -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 03:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that at all. Quite the opposite, I think the min and max are the best measures we have so far, and the so-called average is pretty useless. I'm also saying that if anyone is up for it, we could come up with a better measure based on the no-quests standard. It would not replace the min and max, but compliment it. Alaris 05:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I was replying to the anon :) hence the indent :D but maybe the page started off wrong... the table might be even better if we took into account how much a difference each quest would affect the total. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 06:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

dont foget that if you try to vanquish right from hiting lvl 20, some areas even with no quiests will be diferent even there layout(only 1 i know off)--82.34.243.68 23:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)