Talk:Hexer's Vigor

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

 * Hexers Vigor: 5e 2c 20r 30s 1..4 regen -> 5e 2c 10r 10s 1..8 regen - please discuss skill change here. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:26, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * wow thats alot of health regen for 5 energy. Might this open the door for split capable necros with 'hexer's vigor', 'icy veins', 'lifesiphon', 'mark of subversion', 'parasitic bond'? Doubtful but interesting nonetheless, i cant see this on any flag stand necro bar in GvG or HA they are cramped for space as it is. 87.194.81.41 01:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Lorekeeper
 * Good change. A lot of regeneration, but it actually has a rather bad end condition. Means no Enfeeble,Enfeebling Blood,Arcane Echo, and really can't take any hex/condition removal. I think it looks fairly good. --Deathwing 01:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, good boost. Not quite Restful Breeze regen but at the cost of needing Blood points to get good use from it along with a 2s cast and the ability to use non-spells and Hexes with it.  arredondo 01:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why do people keep saying blood? Isn't it linked to Soul Reaping? --Deathwing 01:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My mistake. That's actually a bad thing now that you mention it. I guess I'm not as enthused about it as I was before. arredondo 02:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's in SR hehe. Tbh, i'm really not sure this will work at all. It only lasts 10s now. At best it's a self healing breeze but with a 2 sec cast time. So when are you supposed to use it? You won't want to spend 2s casting THIS over and over, those long cast times you'll likely want to reserve for worthy hexes. If a guy is bashing on you, you're not gonna save yourself with a 2s cast time, and while before it was kinda 'always there' at 30s duration now it won't be unless you reactivate it over and over. And again, i think of the same thing when i look at this : what hexer doesn't have either Parasitic Bond for Curses or some Life Steal/life regen for blood? And why would you take an extra skill that's actually worse than either of them in the end? The LAST thing Necros lack is self-heal. That's all they have, everywhere. PBond and Insidious heals them. Taste of Death/Pain heals them. Signet of Lost Souls, their emanagement, heals them. Blood is about 90% self-heal skills. So why, considering all the other skills that do SOMETHING and give you self-heal on top, would you want a skill slot doing nothing but self-heal (and imo a very bad one, healing breeze on yourself only on a 10s recharge with 2s cast time that ends if you use a non-hex spell...) with no other use? It just makes no sense to me. The concept of the skill doesn't make much sense. It would need to be either emanagement or a mix of self-heal and emanagement, but being nothing but self-heal for a necro is bad. Or at LEAST make it .25s cast so that you can turn on that regen on demand. But that's not my suggestion at all, i suggest making it do something interesting for a Necro, which isn't self-heal Patccmoi 02:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As a self-heal, there are better existing, more viable skills that are even in current use. If you want to make something new and interesting, there is room here for that. Previously suggested. "For 10 seconds you gain +1..6 regeneration. This enchantment is re-applied when you cast a hex. That'd be worth a 2 second cast time, I think. It's in SR, so cross-profession abuse is right out the window.--Skye Marin 02:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well...making it "interesting" isn't really a good idea. The options for that I have thought of:
 * Increase attribute of hexes. -> Too close to Awaken the Blood
 * Increase Hex duration. -> Hexes are currently being nerfed for shorter durations, so no.
 * Steal Health for each hex cast. -> Way too strong.
 * Steal Health when hit. -> Strong, self-heal.
 * Lower recharge of hexes -> Too strong, since hexes are needing nerfed already.
 * Gain energy per hex cast. -> Possible solution, but boring still.
 * --Deathwing 03:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello, I don't normally play a necromancer, so nevermind this if it's stupid, but do necromancers really need more incentive to use hexes? What if this were changed to an enchantment called 'Grenth's Revenge'? It could offer armour penetration% on cold damage spells. (revenge is a dish best served cold. lol) That would include Wind Prayers and Water Magic too. Keep it in Soul Reaping. --Redfeather 06:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone's been playing Diablo 2. I like the idea. I actually like it very much. Would be a total rework of the skill though, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. --Deathwing 06:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya mostly, it just won't happen hehe. The gain energy/health per hex cast, ends if you use a non-hex spell could be pretty decent too. Something like 0..24..32 health + 0..2E gained whenever you use a hex. Patccmoi 06:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do with this skill; are you trying to make Necros viable for splitting? [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]] 07:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Splitting is the only thing this skill could be used for. But it's not TERRIBLE at it, I like this version of the skill a lot more than the last. For most Necs, investing in SR is a lot easier than investing in Healing Prayers for Restful Breeze/Healing Breeze for a split. However, why are you trying to split with hexes? Living Parasite 07:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * well, an effective self-sustaining hex split is one of the hardest splits to deal with. With the boost to illusion mesmers you *could* see a icy veins soul reaping/blood necro and crippling anguish illusion mesmer gank squad perhaps backed up by a ele/monk or monk/ele for extra durability. Hexes have always been hard to split with so having more options to do so is always a good thing as long as they are not too good to split with.87.194.81.41 12:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper


 * Gotta agree, a 2s cast that you have to useevery 10s is incredible on a split. Right? Not like a Ranger would eat you alive. And if you have an Icy Veins/Blood Necro on a split, i think you'd use the 1s cast Blood Spells for the heal, not this. And if you don't split, you shouldn't need some kind of regen like that, when as i said before you already have TONS of self-heals no matter what kind of Necro you run Patccmoi 15:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Let me put it this way: Compare to Troll Unguent.  [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]] 19:42, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above comment. This is the necromancer version of Troll Unguent that can be stripped and more easily disrupted. I think it is a fair skill. 8 x 2 x 10 = 160 Health gain in 10 seconds is comparable to Ether Feast. --Shadetz X 04:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Except Ether Feast will cast in half a second for mesmers, and this has an ending condition. --Deathwing 04:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be very interesting if you stole, say, 0..7..9 health from target foe every time you cast a hex, reduced the regen to 1..5..6, and increased the duration to 15 seconds. I'd also like to suggest the name Malicious Vigor.  GD Defender 15:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Something needs to be done. In its current state you can use it like Restful Breeze. Cast then kite. It really should be changed to something like this: "For 10 seconds you gain 0..3 energy whenever you cast a hex." It would be the hex version of Masochism. Done25 15:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed with that. What Necros need is energy, not self-heal, they already have tons of that. And comparing it to Troll Unguent just fails. Troll is a self-heal on Rangers, a TOTALLY different class that also has access to short recharge block stances, and it's a skill, so it's harder to interrupt. It can't be stripped in any way once it's up, while this actually has a 'self-strip' condition, in other words all you can do is hex your foe or run. And Rangers actually don't need so good self-heals because they are extremely good at staying alive with their skill set as a whole (interrupts, running/blocking stances, etc.). Necros... if all your targets are hexed and unable to do anything, this might suffice as a self-heal. But if they're not completely and permanently shutdowned, this won't save you from anyone. Take a standard Reaper's Necro bar (the only Necro that could realistically use this since it's in SR) and tell me what skill you'd ever removed to fit this in there? All the skills on the bar are more important than a bad self-heal. And if the idea is to 'split' the Necro, splitting him without someone else that can support heal him, remove conditions on him (cause he can't do that without ending his self-heal), etc. would likely be suicide anyway. Patccmoi 16:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fails? troll is 3 secs cast. These are pvp/pve skills. in pvp you don't have 3 secs. --YukoIshii 18:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

(resetting)What do you think Izzy? Done25 17:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC) (btw anyone want to help me make some guides?)

It's not diffucult to see that 2s casting skill that last 10 secs must be overpowred (like healing seed) or are just thrashed. Make it 1/4 casting time or make it last 20 secs and it's good and usable. Don't forget is based on soul reaping. That alone makes it a boon for some builds (n/a with daggers spell for example). --YukoIshii 18:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I definetly won't be using this considering how difficult it is to maintain. You won't be hexing much if your trying to maintain the enchantment. edit: i assume part of the intention was for it to be maintained rather than as an incidental heal, because of it's conditional(must not cast non-hex spells), cos if it were an incidental heal, then the conditional would basically b pointless since there would b no way you could cast this spell to save ur life within enemy aggro, which is the only time you'd b casting hexes anyway... (and it definitely won't b used with N/A with dagger spells since that would b casting a non-hex spell)--WikiWu 11:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

They should make this a 1..x regen per recharging hex spell that optionally has a short duration but reapllies itself whenever you cast a hex. --62.163.51.178 21:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

No clue if this is still being followed, but for any serious use to a curse necromancer this skill is a waste of a slot. Spike heals are the way to go and while regeneration does help no necromancer is going to sit there and spam nothing but hexes to maximize the duration of this skill. I would much prefer to use parasitic bond, its a cheap hex, can be readily applied to multiple targets and provides a decent spike heal when it ends in addition to minor degen on targets. 67.191.245.177 22:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Post GW:EN Preview feedback
I played with this skill a bit but ultimately dropped it. The 10s (12s with enchant weapon mod) that it is on you doesn't seem worth it for a 2 second cast. If it were a 1 second cast it would have been much better as a defensive tool. You are already penalized by making it not work with non-Hex casts, plus it is in an unpopular skill line. Consider making it one second for next week's final release. --arredondo 08:09, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * More feedback... this skill is bugged. I had a decent setup with it, but this skill shuts down when you trigger a Sig or Stance (and possibly more non-Spells). It is only supposed to shut down on non-Hex spell casts.--arredondo 12:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I'm starting to like the potential in this skill once it is fixed. I have it currently running in this Mesmer/Necro arena build (L14 Illusion, L11 Fast Cast, L9 Inspiration):

With Signet of Illusions up and a +20% enchant mod on my staff, I have Hexer's Vigor giving me +8 regen for 12s, which can be kept up infinitely that way. It also casts in 1.2 seconds because of my Fast Cast points. Under these conditions I can freely spam -9 degen and melee-hate with the Hexes while getting great health regeneration from HV (plus extra protection from L14 Distortion). Nothing I have will cancel the enchant once it works properly. Hopefully the bugs will be fixed soon so HV won't end when I use Signets and Stances. Heh, it'd also be nice if Cracked Armor from SA actually worked as well because right now it doesn't. --arredondo 22:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill may not be bugged, just a little confusing in it's text. Non-Hex Spell could mean that if you use a skill that doesn't say Hex Spell or Elite Hex Spell, then this skill is ended by the use of that skill. It would look better if it said non-Hex spell instead of non-Hex Spell if it really is bugged and that they mean you can use non-spells. --208.117.81.202 19:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh, very wise comment. I would have never thought about that myself, but you're right - it probable means Non-"Hex Spell", not "Non-Hex" Spell. Erasculio 00:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Except that it says "cast" when sigs, stances, skills, etc. are not cast. If it stays as is, it isn't worth the trouble. A 2s cast for a heal in a poor attribute is one thing, but with it not working for any thing other than Hex casts is bad for all but the most narrowest of builds. I think sometimes skills like this are pre-nerfed on purpose, just so they don't have to nerf the "real" version and get people upset should they need to. Waste Not, Want Not has the same bug as this one. --arredondo 15:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Original skill feedback
With that kind of condition (ends on non-hex spell) I'd expect a little better healing from this skill. 8 health per second can sustain very little dps. Perhaps add "gain an additional x...y health whenever you cast a hex."
 * Reapers Mark / Corrupt Enchantment midlines the world over are smiling today! -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 01:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)¸
 * I could really see this use some buff too... Seriously i think it should be some emanagement. It's in SR, right? How about 1..3..4 health regen and 0..1 energy regen (breakpoint at 8)? For those saying 'omg imba', you're still using a skill slot for it that you could use on, say, GoLE or Sig of Lost Souls that are actually totally better than this. I'd even consider 0..2 pips of energy regen, but that might be too good. Or raise health regen more than that. Seriously what's the point of health regen when most hexers spam Parasitic Bond all over the place? In GvG we have a Necro spamming Rip Enchant on recharge and he never lacks any health just because of PBond ending over and over as it gets removed. Health regen would really have no point for Necros, at all. Hell, Necros are the masters of self-heal, even through hexes (PBond, Insidious Parasite...) Patccmoi 06:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The name of this skill is....pretty bad. How about "Culling Sorrow" or something to do with getting "rewarded" for hexing. I just don't like Hexer's Vigor at all. --Ravious 01:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

How is this Soul Reaping?
This one just doesn't make sense as a soul-reaping skill. It has nothing to do with death (or it does in that all skills have to do with death of some sort). Perhaps if it triggered on something dying while being hexed, or renewing when a target being hexed died? For example: "If the target dies under thr de next hexes cast, you get M health" -- IxChel
 * Soul reaping is a necromancers primary attribute. They normally shove stuff they don't want */N's to use in Soul Reaping. --SK 06:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah just look at Glyph of Lesser Energy :) --Deathwing 11:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

What?
If you ask me, this skill is pretty bad. 4 health regen? So it's a 30 second conditional mending. Yay. Rakeman 03:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah...it's pretty boring, and fairly weak. Maybe have it add armor based on how many hexes you have? 1..5..6 armor for every hex you have. I know, hexes are already strong and popular, but it's an enchant, and theres some new hex removal coming. Oh, and it doesn't stack with other armor boosts anymore (which I still hate). --Deathwing 03:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like it more if it were more like Armor of Unfeeling - a (smaller) raw damage reduction, instead of health regeneration or more armor. Health regen would work well if this were a Blood spell regarding Blood skills (like a different way of doing the same thing Blood Renewal does), but regarding hexes, I don't think even eternal +4 health regen is going to matter that much. Erasculio 03:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Mending for Necros! Sirocco 04:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * W/N running Hexer's Vigor? Echo Hexer's Vigor? Hmmmm ... --MasterPatricko 09:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * For one regen? :P Luigi 23:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The only thing you can cast after this one is hexes, arcane echo for ss would cause it to end. 1 Slot for 4 reg that ends at such a condition ist useless without an additional effect that makes it worth. Maybe an addtional "all Hex spells you use while under this enchantment recharge 4..40% faster" and increasing the energycost to 15 would make it more interesting.
 * Just don't make hexway even more overpowered please :( How about instead of making it so dependent on casting only hexes and nothing else, if it's a short duration and reapplied whenever you cast a hex, and maybe also improving the effect a bit? skaspaakssa 14:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Mending have energy upkeep, this doesn't. It's different and +3 is good enough. Lightblade 19:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually at 30 second recharge, this does have upkeep. and it is exactly half that of mending(not factoring in the 2 cast and maybe +20% enchant mod), but far more conditional. and why the hell are we compairing one crappy skill to another crappy skill? there shouldnt be any crappy skills... :( --Lou-Saydus 18:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

With SoS Spike?
I could see this fitting in with a Signet of Suffering spike team, since the only spells the spikers use are hexes anyway. And everything else is either a signet or a stance, thereby not removing this. --Lol No Account
 * Well last time I checked, signets and stances are skills too. Paddymew 05:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Reapplying Hexers Vigor
With 4 Regen its ab bit weak anyway, the ending-condition makes it even worse. For PvE i dont like it becouse i cant use it with Arcane Echo. So my idea was to give it an effect that reduces Casttime. But i like the idea of an self-reapplying skill that triggers on hexes. how could this look like? Maybe: Hexers Vigor energycost:5 cast:2 recast:20, For 8 seconds you get 1..4 Healthregeneration. If you cast a hex spell, Hexers Vigor is reapplied and you gain 3..15 Health. That would make it a bit stronger and more usefull for diffrent builds. The reapplying-condition and the additional healthgain also strongly binds the spell to hex-builds, like the original one.(Sir Astaroth 21:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC))
 * Agreed with this comment!
 * Great idea. --Skye Marin 20:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Buff needed
this skill needs a major buff something like +7 health regen or +4 health regen and +2 energy regen


 * Agreed, it needs a Buff. But even with +4 Healhreg and +2 Energyreg it is not a good skill. Its not that good that i would sacrifice some direct spells oder utilities for. The reapplying version above is a much better buff than just giving it more healh- or energyreg. The Problem is not the general weakness of the effect, its the hard ending condition. There are many skills that easily give more Health or energy without the need of sacrificing direct spells and utilitys. If the reapplying Version gives more reg or some energy it wouldnt be bad, but dont be too greedy ^^.

I'll tweaks some numbers to it, thanks for the feedback! ~Izzy @-&#39; 18:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Spelling
Shouldn't it be Haxor? :P &mdash; δ(x) 22:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

There are a number of skills that would work fine with HV besides Hexes as it currently is... Sigs, Touch skills, Mantras, Attacks, etc.
 * New skill to replace mending on warriors]:) edit: scratch that....soul reaping --Deathwing 17:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Hexer's Vigor + non-spell skills
I can see Aura of the Lich+Dark Aura making use of it (and the new Masochism for +energy) if HV is the final spell applied of course. You can use Touch of Agony and Wallow's Bite as the sacrificing attacks since they are touches. Blood Renewal can be used together with HV for a max total +11 regen with a nice heal bonus at the end of BR. Degen is the main enemy of AotL besides life steals, so this is a nice skill to have.

However that is clearly a niche use. HV would be better if made more versatile, and for that it needs to offer more to the player. Maybe +5 regen is enough but +6 regen would be more attractive. Either that or keep it at +4 regen and add, say, a scaling armor bonus that hits +40AL at L15 Blood. Seeing that the Necro isn't a class that focuses on AL bonuses with Blood skills, you can instead consider adding a scaling life steal that triggers when hit by attacks. arredondo 17:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Definitely not life steal per hit scaled by blood. At least not able to be maintained perm. I could see it used on warriors a lot. Life steal on hit scaled by how many hexes you have sounds like it could be interesting. Still, grieving warriors with dolyaks, this, and 6 hexes :) --Deathwing 17:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point, although I'd have it steal life based on the number of spells you have, not just Hexes. This allows it to be more versatile. arredondo 18:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Non-spell skills are never hexes, so they remove HV as well as anything else would. Paddymew 05:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Hexer's Vigor Stacking...
Assuming PvE here, I often use a Blood Necromancer with maximum Blood Magic and Soul Reaping, and usually hench everything with all casters (hence I'm the tank). I spam Life Siphon on multiple targets, Life Transfer (or Reapers Mark) and Faintheartedness on the hard target and then spike Unholy Feast. Under the effects of this spell I can maintain +15 health regeneration and finish off standing in a pile of corpses, with full health and full energy. It's not fancy, but it would work, assuming that this does not end up as an elite skill. Gwynna Vive 10:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Except Unholy Feast would end it. --Deathwing 10:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If you spam Life-Siphon you really dont need another 3 Healthreg, not for the price of a skillslot. It is meant for hexbuilds, and only curses can build up an full hexbuild. Using it with blood means you faster reach the cap and the little effect of Vigor is wasted.

New Version
Old: 5e,2c,20rc,30sec + 1..3 Healthreg New: 5e,2c,10rc,10sec +1..8 Healthreg. Both end at casting a non-Hex-Spell. The new Version is much better, using it in Hex based Builds is easier becouse it just needs to be well timed to not interfer with some non-Hex-spells. i still dont really like the ending Condition and would prefer a positive effect on casting Hex-spells at lesser Regeneration, but that seems to be a thing that wont get changed. The last changes made the skill more usefull in battle to get a little heal while attacked, but to be really useful i such a situation the casting time needs to come down to at most 1 second, better to 1/4 to avoid interruption. Even if it is used for constant healing, the casttime with 2sec every 10 seconds is too long. If this is changed, i would say it is a usable skill and it will find its way into my builds sometimes. (Sir Astaroth 10:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC))
 * It is certainly a more attractive skill, but... I still would not use it. If Hexes often carried Health sacrifices I could see where this is aimed, but as it is I can find stronger less-vulnerable healing alternatives which simultaneously hurt foes - and most of them are far faster.
 * Well, i suggested replacing the hard ending-condition by a positve trigger on hexes with the reapplying version above, but that doesnt seem to happen. I fear it will never be a good skill with that ending-condition unless it gets a strong effect like reducing recast of hex-spells, but that would make it overpowered for pvp i fear. (Sir Astaroth 11:13, 4 August 2007 (UTC))
 * Look at troll ungent...one sec cast less doesn't justify the "end if using a non hex skill" 213.121.242.200 10:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1/4th sec now. Justing6 07:28, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Best thing would be to reapply it if you cast a hex, and no ending-condition. Is a little bit of regeneration really going to make a necro overpowered? --Deathwing 23:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

You people are never pleased. Now that you got a fair enough selfheal linked to Soul Reaping, you can finally dumb Blood tree and start some real hexing. You can max your SR and Curses and get lots of energy, add Signet of Lost Souls as those go well. You don't have to waste attributes for other stuff. Efficiency at it's finest. -- Alistair Cookie   21:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions
To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 00:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Vigore del Negromante (there's no italian word to say "hexer", if somebody think something write it. i used "Necromancer Vigor" to use something that is not ridiculus to hear. It still mantain the intended meaning). --YukoIshii 00:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

German: Vitalität des Hexers (there is a grammatical way to make it sound more like the original by switiching the words to "Hexers Vitalität", but the first one sounds better, more literary (hope i got the right word). (Sir Astaroth 22:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC))


 * I think the word you're looking for is "literal." Kabu To 06:11, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

No, he got it right: literary... well read... educated.. literate.. intellectual.

Animation
SUPER SAIYAN!!! Syntheticfibers 02:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

one of the best skill animations out there, if you ask me.