ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Warrior/Warrior's Endurance

HAI IM A NUB AND I LIKE TO MAKE BAD SKILL SUGGESTIONS LIEK THIS SKILL IZNT ELEET.

Try harder at skill balancing, people like you get things Smiter's Boon'ed. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Phill Gaston (talk).
 * If Warrior's Endurance is so troublesome, what hell of an uber overpowered monsterhouse is Zealous Vow? Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  01:23, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You see, the thing is a skill isn't overpowered until a bunch of people start using it for gvg and people complain. prokiller88 02:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, no one thinks that spamming +36 damage + a 1/2 attack that recharges in 3 seconds with no limits is bad? prokiller88 03:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, cause you tend to sacrifice utility when you go for those sort of builds. 66.75.136.251 18:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah same with dervish, who has no utility and lower defense than a warrior and still gets out-dps'd. I guess that's why they completely replaced dervish out of GVG.Perfectly balanced! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:OrganizedOP (talk).
 * While Warrior's Endurance is a tad broken I can't support your argument because even if it were fixed Dervish would still suck Mordax Praetorian 22:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sad thing is, I agree with that part about dervish sucking. Losing VoD killed dervishes and they'll never be able to go back to participate in GvG without being a burden, even if warrior's endurance is fixed. So I guess that wasn't a good example on my part. (OrganizedOP 10:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC))


 * This skill is overpowered, dervs don't have an unlimited energy supply, assassins don't have an unlimited energy supply. You can't strip this skill, and all pvp warriors run survivors for extra hp, so they only have 20 energy anyway. prokiller88 13:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not overpowered. Scythes are overpowered. Just invalidate Warrior's Endurance with scythes and the problem is fixed. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.229.129 (talk).
 * Dervs do have an unlimited nrg supply is called Zealous vow, Sins do have unlimited nrg its call Critical strikes (and it doesnt even require a skill!) the only thing overpowered about this skill is that it cant be removed. Simple solution Change it to a shout. that makes it removable and preventable.70.6.11.30 07:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Shouts aren't removable. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:01, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * My issue with this skill has nothing to do with scythes. Like I said before, its not broken unless someone uses it in gvg. Zealous vow is powerful, but it takes all of you energy regen away and this doesn't. Critical strikes is all about chance, whether you hit a crit or not. This skill is unconditional, it can be maintained constantly, and it gives 3 energy to warriors who always runs survivors which means the always have 20 energy. prokiller88 15:23, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's balanced. Warrior's endurance takes up your elite slot. Critical strikes doesn't take up a skill slot and isn't elite. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.229.12 (talk).
 * My previous post was in response to 70.6.11.30's post, in which he or she suggested that the skill be changed into a shout in order to make it preventable (which, IMO, would be a bad idea, as shout counters are too narrow) and removable (which would not work, as there are no shout removal skills). -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 08:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Its balanced because it takes up an elite slot, wow that is certainly an interesting logic. I have nothing more to say, except that since your using that logic pretty much all elites are balanced and should not be touched.prokiller88 04:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Warrior's Endurance is fine. Scythes are broken on any fighter class besides a paragon, and anyone who disagrees either doesn't know much about scythes or is bad at the game and wants scythes to remain broken.


 * Will you stop bringing a different issue into this? Warrior's Endurance allows a warrior to spam energy attack skills and you can still use frenzy with this. prokiller88 22:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing wrong with that, just means that they have less space for other skills.

Most warrior builds should have an ias, a ims/stance cancel, bulls strike, 3 attack skills from that their weapon choice, a res and 1 free skill. Yes you lose the option of using conjure, rending touch, shadow steps, shock, and a heal but you gain an unlimited energy source.prokiller88 02:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's called balance.
 * You call that balance? You know what, do you have an actual reason why this skill should not be nerfed other than the bs about scythes? prokiller88 02:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Scythes are always the problem, and you know nothing about game balance. Have a nice day.


 * Scythes are not the problem in this case. Whats wrong with you people, always spamming scythes are overpowered. If you do use a scythe with this skill, the armor penetration puts the scythe somewhat over the top vs a dervish with 14 scythe. There is NO WAY to remove the skill without death, you can spam energy skills, and you can maintain it indefinitely. That looks overpowered as it is.prokiller88 00:20, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, scythes are always the problem. Warrior's Endurance is not overpowered. Scythes are broken when used by any martial profession except a paragon. Should we nerf all those or should we nerf the actual problem? The solution is clear-nerf the scythe.

(OrganizedOP 09:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC))
Hello, this is my first time posting here so if I've done anything wrong, I apologize in advance.

Currently, this Elite skill called Warrior's endurance is very overpowered in GvG. Test has been done to verify this comparing to other melee class, such as dervish.

Here's the thread where two people (a warrior) and a dervish tests out their highest DPS via Master of damage. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4380597#post4380597

If you take a look at post #7, you can see the screenshot that a warrior who used Warrior's endurance spamming skills did 6,055 damage in 30 seconds.

A dervish (post #27), who used Aura of Holy might, Asura scan, Ebon Standard/Urals Hammer/I am the Strongest, zealous vow+3 spammables instead of vow got only 3.5k damage in 30 seconds.

Considering how a warrior has the highest defence in-game and also 3 KD makes dervish much weaker. Even in the high-end PvE, Dervish aren't wanted and as for GvG, they aren't use at all. What exactly is dervish's role? They are out-damaged by warriors, out-defenced, and lack utility.
 * The are only outdamaged by warriors with scythes.

These threads are people who thinks this skill is overpowered, which happens to be a lot.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10335927

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10338668

http://www.gwstrat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20
 * Uhm, 6000 damage in 30 secodns equals a dps of 200. Even with everything I got on any profession my maximum dps was around 120. I somehow doubt your test results. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  10:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Added; the rules or non-existing rules in this contest are just too hilarious to be considered of any worth for the discussion if Warrior's Endurance is overpowered. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  10:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Those aren't my test results, nor do I know them but found them while browsing the forum. I don't mind if you don't look at the test results, you can still ask the community of those threads regarding the issue. (OrganizedOP 10:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC))
 * With 990 damage in one second, it most likely will be Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support not Warrior's Endurance which is OP. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  10:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Warrior's endurance isn't OP? I did see the mistake (didn't even noticed that until you said it) but that still doesn't change the fact. This is what one of the moderators named Moriz (guildwarsguru)posted, who said "warriors are the undisputed kings of melee. their very good DPS, combined with naturally good defense and excellent disruption places them heads and shoulders above dervishes and assassins. those two are only better than warriors in very specific situations. the warrior's endurance build allowed warriors to spam their energy based attacks, which WERE considered bad before because warriors could not run them due to their poor energy. with warrior's endurance pumping them energy constantly, they can now spam them for some pretty sickening damage. for example, power attack does the same damage as executioner's strike, except you can now use power attack every 3 seconds constantly, while you can't do that with executioner's strike. effectively, a WE warrior has the best of both words: spamable high-damage energy attacks like a dervish, while still having all the goodies of a warrior (3 KD, high damage bull's strike, free secondary, etc)."

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10338668&page=3 (OrganizedOP 10:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC))
 * You seem to think that Dervish is a damage class, it really isn't, Dervish is a tanking class, it is there to be durable, it has the highest damage weapon but it can't take advantage of this because it has to stop every 20 seconds to reapply its enchantments. You can spike with a Dervish using Wounding Strike etc but this isn't the same thing, and cannot be judged the same way to damage-over-time (pressure), which is what Warrior's Endurance is for. Mordax Praetorian 22:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Dervish aren't durable as warriors so they end up being weaker all around like Moraz mentioned above (a WE warrior has the best of both words: spamable high-damage energy attacks like a dervish, while still having all the goodies of a warrior (3 KD, high damage bull's strike, free secondary, etc, high defense). Warriors don't need to keep enchantments up to be durable and in GVG, it gets stripped off anyway. I don't really understand why izzy had the need to buff up warriors even more and nerf dervish at the same time (by removing Victory or death).

But anyway, even without warrior's endurance, dervish will still be replaced by warriors so my examples I posted doesn't make much sense. (OrganizedOP 23:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC))
 * Ok, lets look at this a different way, its true that Warrior is AL80 and Dervish is AL70, but with its defensive enchantments a Dervish can become more Durable than a Warrior ever could, combine with something to help clustering like Grasping Earth for example, and you have yourself a Tank.
 * It is true that a Dervish has the highest damage weapon in the game, however it can't make proper use of this weapon because it has to spend so long re-casting its enchantments, thats why Scythes do so much damage, to compensate for the time the Dervish spends casting.
 * It is also true that Dervish enchantments can be stripped, resulting in a fragile Dervish that dies easily, but that doesn't make Dervish a damage class, that makes Dervish a weak class
 * With WE Nerf, people would still pick Warriors, this is true also, but that wouldn't be because warrior is too powerful, with WE made back into a Stance it wouldn't be, it would be because Dervish is a weak class, all of the classes are better than Dervish, not just Warrior.
 * To conclude, if you want to make Dervish stronger, this is the wrong way to go about it. Mordax Praetorian 02:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The reason why I was comparing it to dervish was because both are front-line profession and 1 of the front-line(warrior) being better than the other front-line(dervish) in dps, defense, and even utility is sad. People have made many suggestions to buff dervish so they can compete with warriors but since it's not going to happen from the looks of it, I started to ask for nerf for other professions, which I don't like doing because it usually calls for a flame. I hope izzy is aware of this issue and he could try and balance this out without nerfing or without making dervish's skill way too overpowered since this seems to happen frequently. Our new reaper's sweep is still replaced by wounding strike so it still doesn't make any difference than before.

I did try to make threads about buffing dervishes before but I can't seem to add new pages on the dervish skill feedback section so I resorted to the nerf for warriors. (OrganizedOP 02:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC))
 * Dervishes aren't a melee class. Nice try though.
 * In any case, WE has been overpowered since anet started making attack skills have lower recharges. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I think I'm misunderstanding with something? I always thought dervish was damage dealer but recently, I been getting told they're tanks by many people. You said they aren't melee class but could you tell give me more detail on that? I'm getting a bit confused lately. If they aren't melee, than all the comparing I did makes no point. (OrganizedOP 03:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC))


 * If you're tanking as a derv, you're playing it wrong unless you are some AoM build, which is NOT an enchantment. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|Talk]] Riddle 03:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

People are assuming dervish are tanks because warriors or assassins/ranger using a scythe can out perform a dervish damage-wise, which puts us in the tank role I guess. I'm trying to add a new page on http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/ArenaNet:Skill_feedback/Dervish so I can move the dervish comparing to that page instead of here but it seems like we can't create new pages anymore. I don't think asking for a nerf to warriors are going to change much so I might as well start trying to improve the inferior profession instead. This is the end of my "nerf something" post.(OrganizedOP 03:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC))
 * The only people who run this on a scythe are the people who don't know how. If the problem is on scythes, why punish this skill?  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 18:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Solution: Make this skill NOT work with a scythe. Any more nerfing and I'll bring a different elite.
 * If WE is overpowered ONLY because of scythes and nothing else, you change scythes, not WE. This isn't rocket science, though some people still have no idea how to do math or use logic.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 05:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you make this work for swords, hammers and axes only. Simple boolean- if attack is executed by an axe, sword or hammer, special effect trigger = 1 (true). gg charlatan. Owut 17:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. That's a trivial amount of programming but Anet probably forgot how if-then conditionals work.
 * Warrior's Endurance is only OP with a scythe since scythes are a never-ending source of energy based skills. I challenge anyone who considers this skill overpowered to use it WITHOUT the scythe. It's actually balanced. Don't nerf Warrior's Endurance, nerf scythes or make this not work at all with scythes.72.64.0.119 20:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, I'm Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike Dismember Power Attack Protector's Strike. How are you today? --75.71.67.5 20:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Read the last suggestion and sign it so that this can be balanced without a real nerf.

Discussion about the worst suggestion on the page
Anon's suggestion (the one thats says "restrict adrenaline gain so warriors can't spam power attack and prot strike every 3 seconds") is so bad I thought it was a joke at first. ~Shard  00:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually it's not a joke. Part of the problem was that they could use power attack/protectors to quickly charge up Dismember. Removing adrenaline means that they can't inflict deep wound without using crap skills in the tactics line.
 * Now there's a new worse suggestion. Make Burst of Aggression make you not "loose" adrenaline?  So then it would be like frenzy, but broken? Umm...noty.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)