Talk:Game updates/20080821

Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.
oh man why did no one get video of this......75.172.47.109 20:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL SMITERS BOON LOL--65.185.121.217 20:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL I know xD 25 Energy, 90 second recharge, lasts FIVE seconds. Wtf Anet, it was a balanced skill! Is this a joke or something?99.237.199.101 20:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought it was a joke until I logged in and checked it. The new worst skill in the game <3 Wastrel's Collapse now looks godlike in comparison.--65.185.121.217 20:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Yea, that skill was brutally murdered with a large hammer. I mean, were support smiters even a problem?206.53.17.64 20:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * it's simply an overkill, but it had to be nerfed,, cuz they were dominating in all over the gvg's,, nice :)--Alphamaslak 20:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

OOO LOL XDDDD DHAHAHA This is joke?! :D hahahahhaha o my god xD ROLTF.. xDKlotek 20:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Smite teams was not that hard to beat, but this skill just needs to be removed from the game now :\ OblivionDanny 20:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I would also love to see that video[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 20:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

it's a shame they killed smiters again, for 3 years they were absolutely useless, then they got smiter's boon and a little bit of play and "boom" ...


 * Ye it's not a nerf, it's a kill, but if any skill deserved this it was Smiter's Boon. Especially with the HA weekend up ahead it would be no fun running into nothing but smite teams or playing one. RiP 78.2.14.201 23:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Izzy was just in a hurry to get to the Anet all you can eat buffet, so he just kills spells instead of balancing. Toa Hahli 01:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

-Calls for a personal change because it's clear Izzy can't balance a skill without opening the glass case and slamming the Nerf Button down- --Masato 15:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Monk
Why not finally delete the most useless profession in the game? Why not add another class with scythes instead? --82.83.59.246 20:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...most useless profession? Are you out of your fucking mind?--The Gates Assassin 20:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think he was being sarcastic 195.137.63.16 20:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If they were going to delete the most useless profession in the game it would be Assasin. And why would anybody want another profession with scythes? Are dervishes used for anything to begin with?[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 20:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Assasins are teh pwn! 195.137.63.16 20:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone is out of his fucking mind, but not me. However, this will just lead to more monks added to teams to balance against the insane damage. Instead of fucking nerfing the monk into oblivion the fucking insane damage dealt should be nerfed or else Izzy will see 3 bunny + 5 monks teams in the future in 8v8. Holy fuck, nerf the correct end of the problem. Healing is so fucking underpowered only 4 monk teams succeeded until today. What will happen now? Healball again?
 * Drogobuffin, don't talk about things you don't understand and go back to playing PvE. We are talking about PvP here. --82.83.59.246 20:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I know about PvP, It used to be all I played up untill Izzy started spazzing out on it. Only reason to play GW anymore is to waste time. Also how do they expect any of us to buy gw2 with the way they are missing this one up. And I was being sarcastic. Oh yeah you need to learn how to read its Boffin not Buffin[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 21:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree with Drogo, I'm not as thrilled about GW2 as I was when I first heard about it. GW2 is going to be GW1 all over again. Its going to be about nerfing balanced skills, forgetting about useless skills, and not doing anything about over-powered skills. 99.237.199.101 21:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This nerf was probably just for now...wait for the developer updates before you go crazy over this nerf. --The Gates Assassin 21:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Instead of overnerfing 1 skill. Lets share the nerf. Instead of Smiter's Boon having 90 seconds, make it 60 seconds and give Wounding Strike the extra 30 second recharge. 76.24.65.83 21:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope you're joking. --The Gates Assassin 21:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Well Izzy you did it again! You have now just made every single GW player REALLY want to play GW2. /sarcasm Psychiatric Consultant   21:21, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Please see the developer update for reasonings; it was intended to remove this skill from PvP. poke | talk 21:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Which is stupid. Do your job right or quit.--65.185.121.217 21:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Skill balancing by removal? I'm sorry but I agree with the general "WTF!" notion.  That's not skill balancing.  Poor form, truly.  000.00.00.00 21:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is not nerfing any single kill - maybe smiters boon was never a good idea to begin with, but people are so desperate because any healer is a wasted player's slot in PvP by now. People are just trying to squeeze any gimmick out of the imploded healer classes to give them back a meaning.
 * But finally there is no fucking meaning in bringing any healers to the game anymore. The traditional backline has been killed a few weeks ago. Good for builds like Golemway or Rituspike which are both but a variant of Healball.
 * Games are getting more and more boring because more and more player slots have to be filled with healers (or a bigger percentage of availabe team skill slots) leading to dull, boring, extremely defensive games. Removing smiter's boon will just lead to even more passive play.
 * This inability to see the simpliest outcomings of skill debalancing is the main reason I will never again put a single penny in ArenaNet's greedy mouth. --82.83.59.246 21:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Seriously, wtf? "We don't serve their kind here! You'll have to leave your smiters outside!" - 68.229.250.165 21:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok... normally you know I am objective when I discuss changes like this... but even I am with the WTF crowd on this change of Smiter's Boon too... bad call... SabreWolf 21:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Simply amazing. After three years, Smiting finally becomes viable in serious play. After three years, Monks can run a completely different kind of build and be successful. And what happens? It gets destroyed by what is undeniably the most ridiculously brutal nerf in Guild Wars history. They didn't even try to balance it, they just summarily decided to remove it from the game. Sickening. Arshay Duskbrow 22:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Q_Q, read this. --76.25.197.215 22:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I did read it, it's still bullshit. If that's the way it is, balance the skill, do not destroy it. Although this is just another symptom of the main PvP problem that ANet refuses to fix: Single profession stacking in team-based PvP. Arshay Duskbrow 22:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I read it... I am still WTF about it... they put the skill in this game becuase Smiting was not that great... so they added this skill, along with Smite Hex and Condition, and people started to use Smiting Skills... but now they are stepping backwords and out right "deleting" the skill from the game? I am sorry... I am normally more subjective with changes... but this is an outright sidestep and BS... sorry ANET, this was NOT a good call... and if you read some of my past discussion notes, I dont normally say that if at all have said that... SabreWolf 22:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Smiter's boon was annoying, I guess this is just a temp holder until they can think of something else. The main reason is most likely, smiters boon combinded with RoD spam for good prot, damage, and heal. prokiller88 22:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 25 energy, omg. 1:14 comparison from duration to recharge. OMFG. Ninjas In The Sky  22:44, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

My solution... make it an elite... Healer's Boon and Unyielding Aura are.... why not this one? SabreWolf 22:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Following your logic they should make HB non-elite, so we can end up with WoH*0.5. And smiting is really annoying in TA, and GvG suffers too. But I agree, that destroying good tactics is bad way of balancing. ANet should rework Smiting line one more time to make it usable, maybe in some other way. De1m0s 00:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 'tarded was izzy 137.163.16.66 07:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed Smiter's Boon from PvP just like they did Ursan(excluding the Oath Shot version, but people don't have the brains to use it right) from PvE. Seriously, this nerf killed more things than the ursan one did. Yes I actually said that, considering I was against ursan.

Unyielding Aura fails, not worth the elite title. End of story.

Waiting for them to kill off protection prayers, then my monk goes bye bye. Once HB and WoH take a nerf then I'm done with the game. Complete removal of a skill just because it was being ran alot is a load of bull. By that logic let's remove WoH, Protective Spirit and Res Sig too! Pfft, none of the changes since the ursan change update have really done anything good for the game. (though MoM was a very nice buff honestly) If anything they've killed it completely. Anet better not be shocked when the sales for GW2 are much MUCH less than expected. GG Anet, thank you for making me consider returning to WoW after 3 years of actually having fun. Really, thank you...pfft--Masato 15:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, great way to advertise Guild Wars 2. Look's like Izzy is doing a better job of getting people to NOT get Guild Wars 2 than balancing. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.181.2.82 (talk).

WTH
I Started GW and got the update but the load screen freezes at 99% Decompresing 1 File. Ive Left it like that for about 5 mins and nothing happened, i exited and reopened GW and it just downloaded the update again and stopped at 99% Decompressing. so all i can say is WTH.--Starfall 23:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My update also halted at 99% decompressing, but I observed continued internet traffic so I left it, after a while (don't think it was 5 minutes, but a while) the game loaded. Maybe just be patient. --Heurist 20:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Bug
I have had no problems with my heroes ressing or raising minions or using skills properly. Whoever added that there is a bug, your heroes dont like you Drogo Boffin 00:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's been a bug in the system for, as long as, 15 months, where the henchman or heroes will not automatically res or, in the case of heroes, use their res skill when ordered. I've encountered this is many missions in near wipe situations and still had to exit the mission as the monk would not use its res. 000.00.00.00 00:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That old bug could be worked over by flagging the heroes/henchmen around until they decided to wake up, but looks like the new one avoids automatic casting unless there is something within 2x agro range.--Fighterdoken 00:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I also found that Heros and Henchies won't use Junundu wail to heal themselves, only during battles to rez. Must have been a once off, seems to be working again.Lithane 06:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I noticed my hero monk refuses to use dismiss condition, he only uses it (sometimes) during battle and doesn't do it after..... (Edit: Hero doesnt automatically maintain Unyielding Aura anymore) -  B y  a  k  k  o  [[Image:User_Byakko_Byakkopaw.png|User Page]] 11:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Playing last night through the end of nightfall all of my heroes where acting weird, mostly my MM not doing anything useful unless in battle, at the end of a fight he would stand there with one or two minions, surrounded by bodies, and do nothing. He used to constantly keep up Death Nova on the minions so that when battle started they would be ready to go, not anymore. Whatever they did to the AI messed things up more than a little bit, and vanquishing with heroes/henchies just became a chore.Leef 13:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I've been playing all night with an Olias that didn't use his animate skills when there was many corpes lying around. He wasn't even healing them. His Golem die out, he did nothing. His only minion was a shambling and Dunkoro was healing it. But this situation only happen after combat is over (tough he dont heal them much in combat). TulipVorlax 13:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Last month they killed the ability to utilize PUG's to enjoyably play the game and now this month they decide (I have a hard time believing anyone can consistently be this incompetent so the changes must be intentional) to make heroes and henches worse than worthless. What's missing from the Developer Update notes is some explanation of how exactly they expect us to play this increasingly frustrating game. -- Inspired to ____ 14:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, both my MM's didn't do a thing unless I commanded them too. Hell, my HB hero wouldn't cast anything but HB unless told to do so. Even when on Def I had to manually cast his skills. Good job Anet, really... Let's just revert back to Proh only and be done with it.

Next month they'll make it so you can't run more than 1 of the same profession anyplace but RA. At that point I'll quit for WoW of all games. God, this game has went completely downhill since the ursan change it makes me actually want it back. Seems one no is actually doing anything anymore.(alliance isn't doing anything until the hero bug is fixed) Now it also seems the mass disconnection issue from like two months ago is returning. All this makes one start to get really annoyed with the game and Anet. I won't be suprised if the sales for GW2 are very low after the trash updates, the mass amount of bugs and all the server screwups in the last two or three weeks.

Revert all the changes for GvG so it can actually be somewhat fun again, fix this hero bug(which I expect by monday at the least) and hell to get elite areas from not being ghost towns and depressing to look at let's just revert ursan. -nothing will fix Deep or Urgoz sadly, but they were boring to begin with-

Yes, most of it is rantness but can you really say your not thinking about some of the same things? Having a bit of a break next week from GW and I just pray they get their heads on straight and stop messing with things that don't and never did need to be messed with.--Masato 15:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I can live with some of the bugs, just as long as the game is still fun to play. Now its getting frustrating...Thanks Anet for scewing things up!! Now I wonder if I'll ever purchase GW2...hmmm...not looking good!!--Dekar Wildheart 16:50, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Elementalist heroes will also not apply Attunements or Aura of Restoration between fights. --Heurist 21:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Listen
This nerf was purposefully done this way to get gay stuff out of the meta. He wasn't really trying. Personally, I think there were slightly better ways but at least this got the gay 5 smites out of GvG and the 3 smites out of TA. --The Gates Assassin 02:03, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They're not gay, and they weren't hard to beat. Just because some new meta owns your precious build doesn't mean aNet has to nerf it into oblivion. There are counters to everything, just learn to counter what you know will be coming and you can win. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 02:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Bringing a counter just for one build is dumb.--75.94.77.148 03:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Skill balance targeted around the minority of players that TA and GvG while negatively impacting on more popular arenas such as AB is silly. 122.104.161.96 04:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * While you say "minority of players that GvG" you miss the point that GvG is a BIG part of Guild Wars. Hell, the name of the game means GvG. Also, GvG and HA are the higher ends of PvP and should be thought of more than others. If you ask most people, in terms of skill needed(without counting gimmick builds), it goes: AB(basically PvE imo)<RA<TA<HA<GvG. Now this doesn't mean we should nerf AB to hell, but that Anet should look at pvp balancing mostly in GvG and HA.


 * Now I also agree with Silavor that not all metas need to be nerfed. However, revolving your team's build around countering the meta can be bad as soon as you go up against a non-meta build. Of course little minor things can be changed, but at points where some major changes are needed, something should be done. This has nothin to do with smiters, but metas in general.


 * Also have to say that nerfing Smiter's boon wont do much. Now instead of seeing 5 or 4 smites, you'll see 4 or 3 smites and a healer. Smiting is still viable and I think with this change they wanted to force people to bring healers so that healing sees some more play and to make the smiter groups a bit more easy for the QQers. IMO they should look at RoD to balance smiting if it really needs it at all.(If I screwed up chat above me I'm sorry. Comp/mouse freaked and I started typing all over the place. Also im tired, if something doesn't make sense, or sounds stupid I'll explain in the morning =P)~Falcon67.181.164.73 07:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Made sense to me. But I guess what a lot of people don't realize is that smiting is essentially a monk with domination magic. The conditions and hexes can be removed just as quick -technically, quicker- with a normal monk, so the ONLY difference between a smiter monk and a basic utility monk is the fact that spamming hexes and conditions kills your precious wounding strikers while healing your opponents. Boo hoo. IMHO if teams in GvG were built around spamming conditions and hexes only to get defeated by smiting monks, then the team needs to rethink their strategy instead of letting aNet kill the healing aspect of smiting. But as others in this talk page have already said, healing is over-rated now with the huge damage capacity a lot of builds (especially the gimmick ones) can push out, so maybe a team of smiters can still win in PvP even though their already minimal healing is gone if people were willing to try. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 10:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

The main reason smiting is causing so much damage is that most people are running cookie cutter builds, and have no idea how to change them. When new builds come along that a majority of people cant figure how to defeat, they cry to Anet that its overpowered. And I might as well say what i think of the nerf since, I haven't really. Honestly, get over it. I've run smite before and don't think I've ever ran Smiter's Boon on him, maybe more than twice. In no way was it essential at all. Now we'll probably see a lot of people dropping the smite line seeing as they cant heal, prot, and damage at the same time. People who are smart however(lol I said the S-word), can still use smite monks in their group. IMHO smiting should be buffed a bit. Wont ever happen though, but maybe I can pray for a pve buff for about 75% of the smite skills.~Falcon67.181.164.73 14:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hands down, people shouldn't just "get over it". I guess what makes people upset is not that Smiter's Boon is dead now, it's the way how it was achieved. When I read the update notes I just thought "omg, izzy on rampage now". He didn't even try to balance something here, he just killed the f***** skill. Things get even worse when you know that Izzy obviously never liked smiters and did everything he could to keep them out of competitive pvp play (the old Air of Enchantment/Zealot's Fire smiter got hit with his nerfbat as well). People get upset because they start to realize that Izzy doesn't give a f*** about their opinions on certain skills and just does whatever he wants to make GW the game HE likes to play, not caring about what others think. Izzy thinks GvG should be dominated by balanced builds, and he has a strong opinion of what a balanced build should look like. Everything (EVERY F***** THING) that was ever used in GvG and didn't fit into his perception of a balanced build got stomped in the ground asap. Now people seem to finally realize that PvP in GW is not about making up a cool build yourself, it's about playing the stuff Izzy wants you to play. They start to realize that they will never be allowed to run smiting monks in GvG, that assassins will always be useless outside HB, that rits aren't good for anything else than flag-running and so on. People have a good right to be upset and shouldn't get over this, because it's time that ANet does something about the izzy issue. If the plain murder of a skill without any attempt to balance it first leaves him without consequences, he'll just proceed this way. Why balance skills if you could as well just kill them?--Makku 12:37, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

They REALLY didn't need to do that.
Now I Cant even run my Boon Signet Monk. 5 points A-net. Divine boon would probably make up for it, but the drawbacks are too obvious.

Couldn't they just reduce the heal to 20~50% scaled by divine favor, and Make recharge equal to the duration? (30-30?)

I dont even do GvG because of this anymore, and now I can't run smite just to kill time in RA. Damn.

Oh yeah, Gratz on owning the whole smite line in PvP. Why dont they just remove it? It's not like they're going to buff it anyway. 68.198.174.91 10:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Never cared about smiter monks, to easy to beat. But Anet, can we go back to pre-ursan nerf and try all the updates again? Perhaps with less killing the game and more doing something constructive?--Masato 15:32, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One answer for you Masato...listen closly.....No!. I belive ursan should have a recharge of 30...but disabled for 60 seconds so the stupid Oath Shot gay team can't be used. 70.121.168.43 18:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Smiter's Boon
Normally, Guild Wars or anything GW-related doesn't me make laugh. But when I read the update notes for Smiter's Boon, I laughed. Hard. Seriously, why not just change the skill description to something like: "Echantment spell: For 5 seconds, this does nothing. When this enchantment ends, nothing happens. 25 Energy cost, 90s recharge." 89.239.196.211 17:18, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya, Izzy strikes again... c'mon izzy, just delete every skill except res sig, eviscerate, executioners, shame, diversion, e-surge, cripshot, d-shot, wounding, woh and rof from the game and let players deal with it. maybe you're gonna get your balancing right with only 11 skills left in the game. freakin hilarious.. removing skills from the game cause you suck at your job.--Makku 02:21, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

So... Resto Rt, anyone? I'll go back to WoR, Vengeful Wep, and now the new Xinrae's Wep. =D MrBunny0 18:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but smiter spells can be enchant-removed AND don't deal life-stealing (aka cuts through Protective Spirit) like a resto rit, so it needs to be nerfed for balance...oh wait. - Elder Angelus 19:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Dont flame izzy when he didnt fail at this update (although the update on icy did not rly matter ) Smiters boon nerf alone makes this update worth it Lilondra 12:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

AI Updates
Has the updated to fix an issue that caused Heroes and henchmen to sometimes attack enemy targets from too far away, been a bit too strict? I'm used to coming close to mobs while keeping them outside my agro range, then using Ctrl-Shift-space to target call something for the h/h to rush to. Now, it seems like I've practically got to walk into mobs for h/h to notice they're there, even using the target calling mechanism :( -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 22:03, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

the new build message that just flashed? Not sure, no update notes yet. Hopefully though the issues yesterday put into play got fixed just now. Heroes, especially MM ones are kinda useless atm.--Masato 22:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

lol healers too, my custom n/rt hero is sucking at even healing dmg from kyrta on NM, WTF! Annoying And Deadly 22:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I used to love warrior and assassin henchies' AI. Just beautiful. standing half a compass away you could see the gayness of panaku trying to solo 1 ele and 5 warrior NPC's. Ninjas In The Sky  21:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)