Talk:Patient Spirit

Dervish
One word, "dervish". [riVen]  23:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking the same thing, this is going to be a massive boost to D/Mo's.--IIvIIRRIIvII 00:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is going to be a massive boost to healing prayers. --Edru viransu 00:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Dervish written all over it. Sirocco 04:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Could have some utility with healing light for a spikish heal. 203.217.0.53 05:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah the point seems to be having an enchantement to trigger something else. 88.169.112.155 08:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Unless the reason is to boost dervs, I dislike the fact that it will be niche for primary monks, but very good for secondary ones. --Xeeron 09:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not see any dervish speccing in healing prayers for this. I think it is more to trigger stuff and to boost dervishes. But this would be the monk's job, dervish speccing in healing prayers seems odd to me. Maybe someone can enlighten me about the best use of this skill. I see rather limited application so far. --Longasc 15:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like best use of the spell is selfhealing. Orison and WoC have long casting times which is bad when you are under pressure. And you can cast this spell when dazed. Narayanese 12:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the spell is quite nice anyway, it is maybe a niche spell for primary monks, but it can still be used as a cover enchant while someone is spiked. I would however like to see a bigger health bonus, or even better a DF being activated when the spell is cast and while it expires, which would make it better for monks only. --82.243.4.182 10:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah, Watchful Healing is what one would use for cover enchant if one was willing to devote a skill slot for such an application. Also dervs don't have to spec much in HP to make this extremely useful to them, it is spammable and can be used for the numerous "lose 1 enchantment" skills that dervs have, without losing enchantments on them that they actually don't want to lose.  [[Image:User_Riven_sigicon.png]] [riVen]   17:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Good skill imo. Good healing, fast cast time, but can't be used really to spike heal. Good for controlling pressure without risking to be interrupted. I can definitely see this getting some play. And i have no clue what people say with 'this is good on monk secondaries and not monk primaries'. It's not worth much without the DF bonus imo. It DOES seem damn powerful for Dervishes though Patccmoi 06:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Two words: Pious Renewal
 * This is not a spike heal, this is a pressure heal, and may be used when a shatter hex is expected on a target, without the need to lose a skill slot for watchful healing. I would like it with a little less healing and double DF bonus for example which would make it great for monks and good for others, and would allow it to see wider use. --Faena 07:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This skill is the (almost?) exact opposite of Wastrel's Worry. After 3 seconds, enchantment/hex is removed, you/target foe gain/takes 18...67...80 health/damage. Or whatever the health gain/loss is. Nhnowell 16:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I saw the parallel (perpendicular? lol) to Wastrel's too. That one's 8...53...64 damage whereas this is 15...67...80 heal.  Only big difference is this has a 3 sec recharge whereas Wastrel's has 1 sec. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas sigimg.jpg|onoes!]]  Mafaraxas  04:15, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This is overpowered. Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 01:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This could replace Orison, I think. My question is, would you run this and Reversal on the same bar?
 * In my opinion, this is far to be owerpowered. It is a correct healing, and 3 seconds can cost the life of someone (many ppl not used to monking do not use Signet of Devotion because the 3 seconds casting is too long, so this reverts somehow the power of the spell. To run this with orison or not, I have no idea, it will certainly depends on the meta, on a prot bar I guess Gift of health will still be more used, on an healing bar with some prot spells, maybe. Can't guess right now. Anyway Reversal of Fortune is still better than this. --Faena 09:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think if a skill is being debated whether or not you should bring it or Orison of Healing, it's a bad skill. --Racthoh 21:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

add it to the list of skills that work well with healers covenant maybe, i imagine its like vigorous spirit and not affected. on another note, using this then reversal of fortune should keep someone alive long enough for the healing from this to trigger with the divine favor bonus from those skills and the damage protection from reversal of fortune 24.71.148.177 04:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe this skill is going to be widely abused by Dervishes. With attributes in Mysticism this enchantment is practically a free cast with low recharge. I can imagine devishes abusing skills that uses up an enchantment left and right. Skills like Irresistible Sweep, Meditation, Signet of Pious Light, Twin Moon Sweep, and Pious Restoration will surge the playing field and dervishes will be able to self heal and remove conditions and hexes cheaply. Mystic regeneration and other self heals already make them very powerful in PVP(Some Devishes are a nightmare in 4 man RA teams. Stripping Enchantment is not a universal solution since they gain energy when enchantments end). Please do not buff dervishes any further.

I think it's just useless. Used for heal in a secondary class, at 8 it heals of 50. Not enough, every class has better self heals. Dervishes has better self heals and no attribute points to waste in healing prayers. For monks, it's just crazy to think about healing with 3 seconds of delay. It's just good for smiters (but smiter's boon make it not good even for that maybe). It's ok this way, it's a niche skill, someone will find it useful for some build. --YukoIshii 12:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * yeah i'm pretty sure this will find some use, Dervish could you use it to trigger some effects, such as "you lose an enchant and XX happens". Too bad there's not a skill like "target other ally loses an enchantment. This target is healed for 40...120 if an enchantment was lost this way." or something more into the smiting prayers line "target other ally loses an enchantment. If an enchantment is removed this way, this target is healed for 5...60 and all nearby foes take 5...60 dmg" or those kind of things  Azul  [[image:Frigid_Armor.jpg|20px]] 12:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It's not a bad skill... Good pressure heal. It's usefulness on secondary classes is being greatly overestimated though. Pluto 10:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Pluto. This skill is crap without Divine Favor. 5 energy heals aren't very efficient on their own, but adding another 40 or so to them makes them pretty decent. You'll heal for almost 120 with this for only 5 energy if you're a primary Monk, but otherwise you'll only heal for 50 or so considering you won't be able to invest too heavily in the attribute. As far as Dervishes go, try using RoF on a Dervish. That's about how good this will be on a Dervish (Not very good.) Anyway, I think it's slightly weak. I think Izzy underestimates the negative effect that the delay will have on the effectiveness of this spell. --TimeToGetIntense 04:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Patient Spirit + Signet of Pious Light = Free Intense Spike Heal every 3 seconds. With skills like Mystic Regeneration, Dervishes will be even harder to beat than they already are especially in small arenas. --216.113.208.132 00:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I bet this would work perfectly with Contemplation of Purity and Release Enchantments --Argonus 06:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dervishes being able to heal themselves isn't an issue. Any melee character who uses more than one attribute and more than one skill slot for self support isn't a threat. --TimeToGetIntense 07:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This skill needs higher healing for a 3 second duration. I don't see this replacing Gift anytime soon.--Atlas Oranos 10:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not supposed to. It's supposed to replace RoF for Monks with 14~15 Healing Prayers. --TimeToGetIntense 20:38, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Will the double healing from Healer's Boon trigger? Sshaun007 08:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

A match made in heaven for this underused skill? --Ckal Ktak 14:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * To Intense, how is this better than rof??--Atlas Oranos 18:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Before the preview, I thought it would be pretty good against pressure damage, more efficient than RoF maybe, but I tried it out, and I think it needs a 2 second duration. It's just too hard to consistantly predict if you'll be able to get away with waiting 3 seconds for a heal. --TimeToGetIntense 04:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Does this just scream "Signet of Pious Light" to anyone else?

Translation Suggestions
To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Spirito Paziente --YukoIshii 23:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I really don't see a point in this, it just makes these pages more difficult to browse through with more stuff on them. Servant of Kali 08:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Heroes?
Does anybody know how heroes handle this skill? I'm guessing that they'll just treat it like a normal heal, using it when somebody is injured (instead of casting it ahead of time), but I hope that's not the case. 404notfound 07:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Buff
This is reasonably strong now. I'm guessing it'll see a decent amout of play at this level. For monks with high healing spec, it can now heal on levels close to RoF, with more reliability for the heal amount, but less versitility. Interesting. 69.40.250.3 12:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That 2 second delay's skill going to nail its use a fair deal. Most monks want their heal now. --Ckal Ktak 12:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I was unclear, I didn't mean replace RoF or similar skills with it. I just meant it's now a worthy pressure heal for a monks that already has high heal spec. 69.40.240.30 21:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This pairs very well with Dismiss condition. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  13:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not immensely, but it pairs well with one thing- RA/TA. You get a lot of lower damage packets there making it more viable in some cases than RoF, but only on glimmer/WoH monks. 80.193.1.106 17:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I could see this used on a infuser: if you see a spike coming, use this on yourself, and watch the healing kick in after you have infused or when you are being spiked. And of course as some general pressure-healing. Sir Bertrand 13:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ckal yes as healing monks we want to heal now, but also we want to heal later some times. This spell is the only one that can do it from healing prayers. When we have multiple health bars going down at about the same rate, Patient Spirit can cover one of these bars - the one that is safer. There isn't any other monk non elite 5 energy heal spell with this low casting time, recharge and at about this amount of heal. I think its a very good spell and personally one of my favorites.
 * Bertrand its not good for infuser imo. I tried it, but the general concept about Infuse Health is to cover asap big spikes you hadn't predicted. If you had predicted it there are much better options. Eth

Healer's Boon
Why doesn't this skill work with Healer's Boon? I think it would be a lot more viable, especially in Heroes Ascent if synergy were available with Healer's Boon Samcobra
 * It's viable as it is. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  07:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's an indirect heal, it not the caster healing the ally, it's the enchantment doing it. It's just like Intensity won't improve the damage of Spiteful Spirit, or that intensity will improve the first hit of Shatterstone but not the second. --Ckal Ktak 09:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course I can now eat my words. --Ckal Ktak 22:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

CoP
Nice synergy with Contemplation of Purity.. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:85.81.126.123 (talk).
 * This has synergy with many things, and please sign your comments with 4 tidles ~. Justing6 00:47, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Enchanting Mod
If you have an enchanting mod and you use this will it increase its duration?
 * ofcourse, but that would make it a lil worse Close Impact 18:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, it will make the duration of the spell 0,4 seconds longer! :O Paddymew 15:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * correction a enchanting mod will make patent have a 3 second duration due to an anomaly. 96.13.71.219 19:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Tested. I think that should be noted on the skill's page. Lhoj 07:08, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

icon
does anyone else think this looks like he's giving you the finger?
 * Gandhi would never give someone the finger.--67.70.94.212 01:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Dervishes:"Thanks Monk"
When one of your party members is a Dervish, consider bringing this. This plus Pious Restoration plus Mysticism will make that Dervish last way longer and you won't need to target him/her much because of the massive heal and energy management you are giving to the Dervish with the combo.--Wealedout 00:22, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think
You recieve the healing if the enchantment is removed. I cast this on myself and it was removed by Reaper's Sweep right after, and I recieved no heal. ~ Chao 19:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You do, trust me. Besides, the best way to get a self god spike heal is this and Contemplation of Purity. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 19:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Recharge
The recharge seems to be 2 seconds instead of 3. I don't know... Maybe I'm imagining things. - Xerxez 00:17, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems you are. Maybe you used it with a 40% HRT and got ir recharged in half the time (rounded to 2 secs) everytime you looked at it. It recharges in 3 secs normally, just as the description states. Lhoj 07:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Only moments after posting here, I realized I was under the effects of an essence of celerity so recharge was reduced by 20%. Silly me. - Xerxez 22:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

HB
I'm modifying the note about HB affecting the healing of PS only if cast in the "wait" period. HB increases the healing a 50% whenever you cast PS with HB up so the note's quite confusing. Lhoj 07:18, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you tried having HB up, cast PS, remove HB, and then check the healing? --JonTheMon 13:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice point. I supose it wouldn't increase the healing as it would not be active in the moment PS heals. I mean, it's the moment when PS heals what matters, and not the moment you cast it (that's why PS heals more with HB even if you cast HB after casting PS but before PS do heal). Anyway, I'll check it asap. Edit: Checked, healing is not increased if HB ends before the heal. I'll rewrite the note so it states that fact clearer. Lhoj 15:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Nerfed
nerfed :/  Lord Caeliat  00:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yay! It's still usable though --J0ttem™ 01:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's one bloody second. Everybody's QQing over it for some reason when you shouldn't be spamming heals on recharge anyway.  Almost all of the builds that use this pack WoH in it as well, so I really don't see the major cause for concern.  &mdash;Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 09:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * "still better than Orison of Healing"


 * cool story bro Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:05, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Healing Output
 * Patient Spirit - 120 in 4 seconds = 30 heal per second
 * Orison - 140 in 4 seconds = 35 heal per second
 * Oh snap Orison is better now!

Note - I refuse to mention that Orison costs twice the energy Talamare 09:24, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

You also forgot to calculate the aftercast.--77.127.218.10 12:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

@ Jette
 * 1) HA - HB Monks need to gimp their bar to fit in a second self-heal, or run triple backline. Defenseballs are good for the game innit?
 * 2) GvG - No difference to me, until we get a "good" hexway team. K sighum 70% of the time means I NEED to spam PS on recharge. And guess what? Hexways are common. Also, inb4 the dumb arguments where "OP" healing should be nerfed before OP damage takes a hit and Patient is OPed because it's the only non-elite skill in the healing prayers line that is balanced and able to keep up with the power creep. . Pika Fan 13:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * lolololol they should decrease the healing of PS to make you all squirm even MOAR! Or even make it 10 recharge instead! >:D --Ulterion 23:10, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's right. I'm sorry, I was operating under the assumption that monks were fighting against fair builds for a moment there.  I apologize, my mistake.  &mdash;Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 23:16, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't really mind the nerf (if you could even call it that), but I'm wondering why is was changed exactly? I mean, it is easily one of the best non-elite heals but, it takes 2 seconds to do anything anyway. Idk, doesn't affect me in the long run O__0 ~ [[Image:User Chao imgsig.jpg|WELL HELLO|19px]] Chao  14:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Taking 2 seconds is often better than an instant heal because you can cast it on yourself when you see some lame palm striker coming for you so you get healed in the middle of their equally lame combo. It also requires only a little attribute investment to be quite powerful, while most heal spells are pitifully low.  &mdash;Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 21:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

4 Seconds is too much (Pretty much means 1/4 less healing or saving 1/4 energy ..yay!)- It's basically the second extra that generally gets the kill (and I don't get why because you spam you run out of energy, but when you need it.. it's handy) I'm not complaining but it has hindered me a little and when you're running bars with little defence you need it. Do they test this before they update - or do they just assume it's the best/right thing to do? 121.215.169.159 07:49, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It makes ranger interrupts overpowered (when you verse a good ranger and you can't woh that cuts out alot of your healing and if you get savaged - 1/4 int'd somehow - random rupted or casted right after a kd ect..) It's also making it easier to time because you need to put in the healing to keep the team alive (where before 3-4 seconds was ok)
 * situationally when you need to spam heals (E.G Hexway)
 * Yay blood spike..
 * Makes the monk rely on the team a whole lot more
 * Makes faster matches (Atleast..)OR..
 * Makes people take a heal somewhere else to compensate..
 * I would assume they don't, since they had to ask for a test crew the other day. &mdash;Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 08:58, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Just Stop

 * Monks really need to stop bringing this skill in PvP. Ever since the change of Boon to Protection and Divine only, this spell only has a use in builds revolving around Release Enchantments, Contemplation of Purity, or Dervish Pious builds. As someone mentioned earlier, a few seconds is all it takes to die while waiting for a heal. Any monk worth their salt running Guardian (or ANY Protection Prayers enchantment) will have a 20% increased enchant duration weapon which inadvertently WILL increase this spells duration to 3 seconds (rounded up). A lot of times, you don't have time to constantly spam weapon swaps, heal, AND kite at the same time against pressure builds just to keep this at 2 seconds. Swap this out for another hex removal (like Cure Hex) or another condition removal. It gets tiring to WAIT for a heal just to die. 98.24.209.213 15:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but are you mental? This skill has a huge heal, 1/4 casting time, amazing recharge... its used by monks because its a good skill. I doubt you've ever played monk, but if you have, I'm sure people have told you what I'm going to tell you now: Leave this game. Spotina Talk 15:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a power heal and anti-pressure heal, not an anti-spike heal. That's what you have Infuse Health (and Word of Healing) for. My guess is this is just trolling though, how did the change to Divine Boon affect this skill at all? -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  16:05, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Divine Boon now only affects Protection Prayers and Divine Favor skills, NOT Healing Prayers, thus, Patient Spirit cannot be used with a Boon build anymore. That being said, most of the time in PvP, if you're going to want to pressure everyone, and THEN spike. If Patient Spirit is anti-pressure, when it comes to a spike, it's useless, and mesmers running Power Block or Diversion will probably end up getting Word of Healing at some point. Personally, I run Signet of Illusions with Arcane Larceny or Arcane Thievery. If it happens (randomly) to steal Word of Healing, that monk is dead. No questions asked. They can spam Patient Spirit all they want, but even against pressure, without Word of Healing, they're done for, proving that Patient Spirit is pure SUPPORT, not a definite heal. Once again, I mention that someone said earlier that Patient Spirit is best used when someone is greater than 50% health, and Word of Healing when someone is lower than 50% health. Most of the time, if you are losing health, you WILL go below 50% at one point, even Rangers with block stances. Thus, Patient Spirit cast on someone lower than 50% will most of the time NOT even have time to heal and the person will be dead. Orison of Healing is a much better choice for a definite heal and can be spammed continuously with Word of Healing on players BELOW 50% health WITHOUT having to worry, "Oh my god, are they going to die while they wait for the enchant to end?"98.24.209.213 04:54, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * PS is a definite heal. Good monks can look at the field and precast it just like you do with Spirit Bond, giving it viability as a casual heal and anti-spike. It would be stupid not to take patient spirit along a standard WoH bar, simply because it is too good to pass up. I don't know what's with you and all of this Divine Boon nonsense, but despite any sort of long-lost affection you have to the Boon build, the fact is that a Monk will/can adapt and HAS adapted to the extremely effective use of this skill. It heals for a huge amount, has a recharge that allows for effective topbar healing, and is a 1/4th cast (prevents 99% of interruptions in a pvp setting). God, I've never seen anyone argue against PS, and say Orison is better. I wish people would think before blabbering spur-of-the-moment rubbish. --Rikk Panda 76.185.20.44 09:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I would've said 1/10, but I guess not. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  3:22, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)

12/9/10 Update
Well this new nerf killed almost all uses for this skill... R U Who U Want To B 21:39, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * k --frostels 21:44, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Cuz monks needed skill nerfs... yeah... ®emi¢k§ 22:31, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it was nerfed due to Monks, most likely Dervishes using it to Heal + cheap enchantment you can end every 5 secs for additional effects plus getting energy back. Now... Why would they do this in PvE I don't know. Biz 21:15, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * This section is actually quite funny. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 21:21, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * They should have made it a split skill pve version stayed same, pvp version no healing for ending early. That's the least anet should have done. R U Who U Want To B 03:40, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No they should do what they set out to do and remain consistent and change Shatterstone. 69.9.67.148 08:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Nature's Renewal
If the ranger spirit is up, does patient spirit have no effect at all?--77.61.129.90 12:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * All Nature's Renewal does is make it take twice as long to cast, which makes it a 1/2 second cast. You may be thinking of Tranquility which makes enchants expire 50% faster but if anything that makes patient spirit better since it will only last about a second, Tranq simply make enchants last shorter duration, it doesn't remove them. --<font color="Black">frostels 12:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)