User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Overpowered Skills/Necromancer/Archive 2

Life leech always has been a very powerful method to reduce enemy health bars (while staying alive), because you can do nothing to prevent it. Life leech at low energy cost has been particularly powerful in the past, so introducing a spell that causes a great amount of ranged life leech without any energy cost (!) was not very smart. It's very easy to get a condition, especially if you have specced blood magic anyway. The only way to counter the spell is to interrupt it regularly, any team without the capability to do many interrupts will fail. However, playing against a Me/N with specced FastCast, interrupting is not an easy job. It's absolutely overpowered in Team Arenas. I can't tell you what HA or GvG looks like, as I play neither (regularly). I did, however, observe many blood spikes recently, all doing quite well, winning against guilds ranked much better, so I think this skill is a problem to GvG, too. The problem might be solved if the energy gain would be reduced, similar to the change to Zealous Benediction. - TeleTeddy 09:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * weird, where are the people wo said Reaper's Mark or any other degen hex does 300 dmg over time, nerf plz, now people use you Blood Drinker or Signet of Agony + Angorodon's Gaze and these skills degenerate their OWN health the whole time but when it comes to self degen no one seems to use this argument anymore. So let me say it: with Signet of Agony you do 300 dmg to yourself. Looks like degen over time is only an argument when it comes to skill nerfs. 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) 25s of bleeding result in 150 damage, not 300.
 * 2) Two times Angorodon's Gaze and you compensate for the loss, while losing no energy and lowering health bars of your enemys. 25s of degen (resulting in 150 damage) IS nasty, yet the benefit is much greater. Without using any assisting skills you can cast AG four times in these 25s, which results in a life leech of 284 (blood magic 14). Yes, 150 damage is an argument, but not when they lead to 284 points of healing (without any energy cost). You can raise that 284 points by using skills like Mantra of Recovery, Arcane Echo or items to reduce recast.
 * 3) Please sign your comments. - TeleTeddy 20:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's bspike...and they are all squishy mesmers...I don't get it. Readem   Warning: Ignore this User if at all possible.  05:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol B-spike again?
 * This skill is too spammable for a potential 0 energy cost skill. Having a condition on yourself to get this benefit might seem ok at first, but there are quite many ways to make sure you have one. Maybe having a hex on you as requirement for the 15e regain is an alternative? (As you can't cause hexes on you yourself). Zophar 18:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the root of all evil, the combo of MoR and Arcane Echo and Angorodon's Gaze. I would have called the build Angorodon's Monster: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Me/N_Angorodon%27s_Parasite - it is only seen in Team Arenas at the moment. Now I really hate it that a skill abuse by Mesmers could cause a nerf of a good blood magic skill. Suggestions: Energy return tied to Blood Magic attribute and/or "requires 4 Soul Reaping". Then it could not be spammed 2x every 2.5 seconds by Mesmers. --Longasc 11:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This skill should only give back ten energy maximum, and maybe up the recharge so MoR echo mesmers can't abuse it. Shard 13:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This skill was changed to return 12e, well see how that does. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * How about: If you're suffering from a condition, you gain 2 energy for each rank in Soul reaping (maximum: 15). P A R A S I T I C 21:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Izzy pleas respond Dont change the skill change its effectiveness in a spike" for example change it so it does damage per condition on you. scale it so that ppl wont use it in blood spike. hmm at 16 30 base damage plus 10 damage for each condition on you. keep the energy return its fine.
 * What are you talking about this skill doesn't need any change. 87.189.237.15 13:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

This skill has still too much spike power. Especially in HA. My suggestion is decreasing the damage or increasing the recast duration. ~ morpheus007 19:51, 02 December 2007 (UTC)
 * now this is a first. this skill alone is not that dangerous. let me guess, you ran up against an all necromancer team casting.... cold spike instead of blood spike lol? at least blood is armor ignoring, but seriously, cold damage? while cold damage may cause some problems against casters and perhaps assassins, all other physical attackers will laugh at you like they were being tickled when hit with cold damage. i will admit that this skill performed all to well when it was 5 energy. the current 10 energy is just right for a skill that is suppose to be somewhat spammable. btw, your team wouldn't by chance be the team that got rolled yesterday by Signet of Sorrow, Icy Veins and Soul Barbs in HA? nevermind, don't answer that. - jayce 64.253.5.164 06:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Errrr I don't get the joke.....is there an actual reason that this is here? Done25 20:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Its elite slot consumption makes it ok. After the 5->10 energy nerf it almost stopped being used. Shard 08:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Icy Veins is crap. Augury of Death is strong. 87.189.216.221 23:32, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

it sucks really hard that a n/r healer can heal as an god and spike every 5 seconds.

Er, IV Spike is soooooooooooooooooooo slow. Not even kidding. I would rather use any other build to farm fame. -- Readem 23:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Er Spike suxx. yes. but not n/r healers who can spike

Counter too every single proffesion in the game except warriors? Overpowered a little? Antiarchangel 14:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 20 second recharge? Hex removal? Done25 20:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Errm, necros dont lose much, mesmers dont really lose much, etc. And it can be upkept about 1/3 of the time... wth? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 21:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Counter how? Monk heals for thirty less health, warrior deals 2-3 less autoattack damage.  The only two it really hurts are elementalists and rangers.  Maybe assassins. --71.229.204.25 21:06, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Use it on a dervish while he's about to use an avatar, or screw over a paragon's energy, or shut down an ele for a while. Plus if you time it right you can stop a necro from getting any soul reaping. Too many uses for a non elite. Antiarchangel 00:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Bring hex removal. This doesn't even have 100% uptime if you echo it. IMO it needs a duration buff.  Really only useful against eles. Shard 12:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill if used correctly say like.. echo + arcane echo can be really deadly, provided your team can deal alot of damage. Prokiller88 16:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Even an ele wouldn't be much affected, unless they were already bottomed out on a high set. --24.179.151.252 19:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

How did one of the most underpowered skills get in the overpowered section?
 * Its not that underpowered. Prokiller88 19:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh...Yes it is, but don't buff it because curse necro's are annoying. 76.102.172.202 09:53, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

This skill isn't overpowered. If you were any melee class, would you rather have this or Spirit Shackles on you? If you were any caster class, does it really make that much of a difference?--65.95.71.161 02:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is one of those skills that was designed well and balanced horribly. With a 50-75% uptime, this would see play in pvp, but wouldn't completely destroy other teams.  I hate when Anet makes good skills and ruins their balance. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 09:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

+
Possibly change these from Skill to Spell? That way this wont be effected by Expertise, no more Touchers. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.106.12.241.
 * Are you sure? Expertise says touch skills, and a spell is a type of skill. -- Gordon Ecker 02:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, Expertise affects touch spells, I just tested it with Blood Ritual. -- Gordon Ecker 03:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol touchers suck. No nerf needed. Antiarchangel 04:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not about whether touchers suck or not. It's about effort:payoff.  Touch rangers take no effort and usually have huge payoff.  Not every single character build can fit a counter on their bar for this build.  This build just shouldn't exist. 72.235.48.41 13:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Spinal Shivers works wonders against them, but it takes more skill as a necromancer to properly take down a toucher. - jayce 64.253.5.164 07:00, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Everybody already has a counter to touchers on their bar. It's called move outta the way. Antiarchangel 15:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

why run, when they usually run faster than you lol. don't get me wrong, running is fine as long as you can keep your red bar higher than theirs. - jayce 64.253.5.164 18:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Why won't people stop complaining abou touchers... they're just people who like to play tag.Rhydeble 19:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * At least if they were spells, necros *gasp* could use them. Yes, necros could use necro skills since they would be able to use spell-related e-management, maybe even Cultist's Fervor. Are necros using necro skills unwanted by Anet ? 86.208.44.11 08:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The only counter for a touch ranger, is hit and run. What if you're a melee class? With constant blocking, the 'Toucher' seems to overbearing. Would certainly separate Skilled Gladiator Titles, to the ones who use Touchers.
 * If you die to a toucher you fail at guild wars. If your a melee class it's called out damage them. And I don't recall touchers having infinite block. Antiarchangel 00:58, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 8 out of 12 seconds attacks are blocked. Hardly fair saying "You fail at guild wars". The only time a melee can defeat a toucher is if they either include a hex (for removing natural stride) or such, although I've found Rigor Mortis to be useful. Also, there is no physical method to deal more than 65 Armor Ignoring damage to a target which blocks 50% of the time, for 8 seconds every 12. Normally by the time damage starts to fly in, the Toucher Runs with natural stride, and heals up on another target, who seems oblivious to the health of the toucher. Besides, even if the skill was changed to a spell, at least then Backfire would have some effect.
 * If I start seeing touchers in gvg or HA then come talk to me. In AB just snare the toucher and ignore. Cripshot ftw. Antiarchangel 10:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Btw backfire sucks. Antiarchangel 10:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem with these skills is that necros cannot use them as effectively as rangers because of the energy cost. Make them spells and let us use spell-related energy management, I do not really care about touch rangers, and touch spells are affected by expertise anyway. While I admit that touchers can be a problem due to their resilience and the moderate power of a build that requires 0 skill, they cause a minimal threat to the general game balance. At least spell counters would work against them, but nerfing or buffing these skils with only touch rangers in mind is a dead end. 86.192.215.121 16:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I probably posted this in the wrong section, but all that I would prefer is changed to Spells. At least then there would be more viable counters against it, without making it a terrible skill for Necromancers.
 * The only way a melee class can outdamage a toucher is if it's a God Mode dervish, which is cheating enough. If skill-requiring builds could beat touchers (except just interrupters), they would be fine. Shard 03:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ever hear of Warriors. Only reason people use AoM is for the immunity to conditions, warriors have higher autoattack damage. Antiarchangel 14:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Stop being dumb. Touchers fucking suck, learn to play. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  03:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Set it to be 10e,and if you steal HP successfully,you lose 5 energy.Maybe this way can bate the touchers.

Overpowered in 4 v 4 scenarios (not used in HA/GvG, other then maybe Hex-way or iQ trip-tree. Nerf plx. -- Readem 23:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not overpowered. Learn to monk. 70.132.2.120 13:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Just kidding. It takes a pretty good monk to counter this moderately overpowered skill. The hex only lasts ten seconds but it makes it difficult to prot with enchantments. If you can prot without enchantments (weapon of warding and stances for example) then this skill becomes useless to the opposing team. 70.132.2.120 00:33, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Can I say hooray for a skill that is actually good in the Necro class and worthy of 8v8 PvP. --CRASH 04:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * O, u use hexway to farm ladder? u must be good. -- Readem 23:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

This skill is not overpowered in the least bit, Readem plz get a new catch frase. This skill is perfectly fin for what it does. ur mad about it in 4 v 4 use wep spells.


 * Lol thats like telling a ele to use mesmer spells, wtf is a monk gonna use then. Antiarchangel 01:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Run 1 shock axe 1 inetp 1rit 1monk and u wont have any problems. This skill is not a problem unless the only thing u depend on is enchants and u dont have enough damage. This skill is balanced just fine. Besides that there is a sig that can remove enchants every 8 seconds so i dont think an elite that removes avery 10 is any overpowered at all. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:150.176.182.29 (talk).
 * I'm gonna go with readem on this one. It's bad enough that curses, an already overpowered attribute, gets a 5 energy, 10 recharge enchant removal.  It's even worse that it also causes 9 degen.  Where's the 5 energy monk elite that removes a hex and gives healing breeze? ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 09:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is indeed bloody overpowered, which is why it's my favorite Necromancer skill. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  11:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol alright IZZY MAKE B LIGHT 5 ENERGY!!!!

It is too powerful one.Maybe set the energy to 10,increase cast time to 2sec,increase the recharge time to 20 or 15 sec. Or nerf it to -5 will much better. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:220.135.12.39 (talk).

Nerf Expose Defenses, then buff Rigor Mortis so it does the same thing for everyone instead of just the person casting it with 0 points in Curses. Yeah, OK. 66.66.2.63 03:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What? Rigor Mortis already does the same thing for everyone. -- Gordon Ecker 09:40, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * if your going to argue the 0 points issue, the duration of rigor mortis has never changed, even when it was 2 second cast and 30 second recharge, still as effective at 0 points as when the skill was first introduced. but for some reason, i think that there is more to it than what you are complaining about. - jayce 64.253.5.164 10:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The OP seems to be under the false impression that Rigor Mortis only prevents the target from blocking the caster's attacks like Expose Defenses, rather than making the target unable to block anyone's attacks. -- Gordon Ecker 11:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No he isn't. He's saying that this is overpowered because its effect is better than expose defenses, even with no investment. Lord of all tyria 13:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill has been overpowered since they buffed it.Prokiller88 03:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * lol @ Gordon. yea now that i look back at their post, yes it does appear that way, especially when you picture blocking against a spell caster. what caster is going to wand someone to death? - jayce 64.253.5.164 07:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * /raisehand --71.229.204.25 09:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC) necro + spinal shivers + RA + dumbass ele = lols
 * Also, see this. --71.229.204.25 09:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Comprehend better, please. Expose Defenses got nerfed, now Rigor Mortis is fulfilling the same role better than Expose used to. And no, it's not hard to slot Rigor Mortis. 66.66.2.63 16:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * the skill was never hard to slot in the first place, as i mentioned above, and was never worth a 2 second cast time for what the skill actually does. if you're lobbying for recharge hit, then you would have a better argument. when an assassin specs /N, they are giving up IAS, part of the reason expose got nerfed in the first place. and somehow, i still get the feeling that there is still more to it. whatever it is that's on your mind, just come on out and say it. - jayce 64.253.5.164 18:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)