Talk:Bitch role

Delete
Seriously? This is common language in game? Sounds like something those who consider themselves "elite" use only within their closed ranks or something that may more appear on other sites like PvXWiki where builds are ranked and determined that little timing or skills are needed to take on a particular build. I dare to mention that every term used to describe the one who is the bitch actually has a valid name in the nav that was added... Just because a build does not require extreme timing or map knowledge to play does not demote it to useless, the article begins by saying that weaker players with low skill level fill the roll then links to articles of skill that that player must know... can the team be made without it? no? then I fear the bitch roll has you by the nads... Never heard this term ingame... The concept seems valid tho insulting... the information contained in this article is covered more indepth by the role nav articles... 65.6.156.101 09:22, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * if you dont pvp, how would you know if it's used or not? - Auron 09:44, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have dabbled in PvP on occasions and have never seen the term.... Google searches of the term net nothing while terms like Nuker and Utility do... and because of comments like this in the article "In addition, it is arguable that many of the builds frequently used by heroes in PvE may also be technically considered bitch roles by virtue of Hero behavior."... tell me that aint subjective? 65.6.156.101 09:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * i don't care about the pve reference, nuke that if you want. this is a very common term in any organized pvp, used by shitters and pros alike. sort of like other words in the vernacular, it isn't always negative - there are very good players who play "bitch roles" for very good guilds, and "bitch rit" or "bitch ele" is just how it's said to save time. the elite and particular skills change so often that it becomes hard to try to follow the meta and refer to the build politically correctly, so people just call it a bitch rit. or ele, or necro. the player doing the bitch role will know what the current bars are, even if the party leader doesn't. - Auron 09:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, if it does see that much common use the wiki has to define it.... very wel.... weird... but very well 65.6.156.101 11:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)


 * All my time gvging and haing, I've never seen this term. in pve I've never heard of this term but I've seen builds that can sorta fit. I've heard this term called as the "extra slot" instead. are u guys sure that its called bitch? cause ive been playing this game for years and... quite frankly, never heard of a term this rude in game without insults.Nibelhim 14:18, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * This term is used like all the time. I have never heard anyone saying extra slot. Infested Hydralisk  15:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Two examples. Just search for 'bitch role' on teamquitter to get an idea. -- R i ddle 15:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't even PvP and I've heard the term bitch role.-- User Oneshot O.JPG ne shot.   15:52, 6 December 2010.
 * This is a fine example of the member of the team that goes  "WTF WHY THE F*CK DID YOU F*CKING CAST THAT ON HIM AND NOT ME, NOW WE'RE F*CKING WIPED"  ->  True story -- Neil  • User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:16, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * What?-- User Oneshot O.JPG ne shot.   16:23, 6 December 2010.
 * Yes.-- Neil • User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably a tad late, but this term definitely pops up in PvE too. My alliance and I use it when describing certain party spots in endgame parties. I think they tend to be called either support or utility on pvx/forums (for politeness :P), but utility at least is inaccurate as the 'builds' are just skill dumps to use on the rest of the party. I'd pretty easily wager that the appearance of this term in PvE depends on how formal/crass the groups you're hanging out with are, and the fact that these types of roles are either the first to be replaced with something "more useful" when the team build is revised or first to be dumped on a hero when you're short a man and don't want a pick-up. Lillium 20:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Common useage or not, it's still pretty goddamn insulting, and yet another reason it's monstrously difficult to get into high-end PvP if you haven't been in high-end PvP since Prophecies released. Picture in your mind the following conversation and the likely hood of it occurring: Team Leader: "Hey, you, new guy.  We need a bitch, go roll it."  Player: "Gee golly willickers, THANKS Team Leader!  I just love being the team bitch!"  Seriously, do people even realize what they're saying when they use this sort of terminology?  I get here from a Toolbox link and see "BITCH ROLE" prominently displayed across the top of the screen, labeling everyone who doesn't run one of the longtime Prophecies roles a Team Bitch.  Lord, top-end GvG guys in this game are worse than MLG players for overwhelming arrogance >_>.  How's about the article is entitled "Toolbox" or "Utility", with a note that GvG guys with more ego than is good for them refer to such builds as "bitch roles" and the people who play them as skill-less, worthless bitches, hm?
 * It's insulting if you like to get bent out of shape over semantics, sure. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  0:41, 21 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Semantics aside, is the concept of this article about the bitch role or the toolbox? If the former, then change the link in Team Roles nav. If the latter, then switch the order of concepts on the page. If they're different concepts, give them separate articles. G R E E N E R  01:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I think this title page name is pretty inappropriate considering the game is a 12+.. couldn't this be called 'Epic-Loser Role' at least? -- Blast Spirit Talk  01:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It is an unofficial community-created term, so it does not have to follow the age marked on the game. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  01:49, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

This has been gone over time and Time Again, It is a Teen rated game, and Teenagers use foul language. Get over it. -- Briar    The Spider  01:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC) -- Briar    The Spider  04:06, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Much more often than adults do, yes. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 02:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe many teenagers do, but not all. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  20:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ">All generalizations are inherently absolutes"

Move
No, I disagree with the move proposal. Bitch role is not another word for utility or toolbox, and thus references to those terms need to be removed from this article. Midline paragons, stand rits, fire eles and hex necros are good examples of bitch roles - for the most part, the classes don't have very much utility. Occasionally, depending on the build, a stand rit will bring stuff like Weapon of Warding or Resilience, but that isn't "a rule" and it isn't true of all bitch roles. An article on utility skills or toolbox professions is a good idea, but this is not the place for it, and this certainly should not be moved to it. - Auron 07:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems Toolbox was merged with this article last June under the guise of lacking sufficient details. Raine has since expanded the description of toolbox. I take it, Auron, you're saying that while the bitch role may act like a Toolbox from time to time, a Toolbox is not necessarily a bitch role? A copy/paste can separate them, again. G R E E N E R  08:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Split them. A ranger with ward/grasping is a toolbox but certainly not a bitch role; the two are independent.  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  14:34, 21 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Basically what Raine said. Fire eles in tombs commonly brought Make Haste and Song of Concentration, two key utility skills; they were bitch role characters with a toolbox aspect. But as Raine also pointed out, rangers or dom mesmers with ele snares are generally not bitch roles, simply utility classes bringing more utility. - Auron 15:11, 21 February 2011 (UTC)