User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Overpowered Skills/Necromancer/archive 1

When it comes to the GvG hex meta, this skill could easily be the most used out of any skill in the whole match, almost every time. If you use Price of Failure, you cover it with Parasitic Bond. If you use Reckless Haste its covered by Parasitic Bond. Faintheartedness is always covered by Parasitic Bond. Reapers Mark was also a strong favourite to cover apsolutely everything, but then its recharge was taken back to 15 seconds. The reason I think its overpowered is because it is the best cover hex in the game, and it is extremely powerful at keeping the hexes you want on up. It recharges in 2 seconds, meaning you can use it almost straight after using a hex with no problem. If a Migraine Mesmer wants to cover Migraine he would use Conjure Phantasm. 10, 1, 5 stats. Parasitic Bond is 5, 1, 2 stats. However its not a fair comparison because Conjure Phantasm is a lot more powerful. I think this skill should be given a recharge of 8 seconds so that Necromancers could at least need to think before using this skill. With this change the hex meta that is clearly unfairly beating excelent players would be harder to pull off as effectively. Please tell me what you think.--Renegade 10:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes Errr 12:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is IMO one of those that are breaking the hex mechanic. It's too spammable. Make it 5s long so it can do what it was itended to be doing, increase the recharge. No cheap spammable hexes in the game plz. And conjure is nowhere near parasitic, it's 10 energy, that's a huge difference.--PunkSkeleton 22:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the only problem is the recharge time. It has a really weak effect, but it can be used to cover all your hexes. It should have more like a 5~7 second recharge time. --TimeToGetIntense 22:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Honestly i often feel that PBond's effect is vastly underestimated. Just having that on a Necro's bar lets you sac life at will because PBond actually fills your health so fast when they're forced to remove it over and over. You could use Dark Fury on recharge and PBond alone would cover the life sac. It's far from worthless if you make any use of the self-heal through saccing. Rip Enchant is a very very good skill along with PBond too. I'd truly agree with recharge being raised to 5s on this one. Don't think it really should be higher than that though, but 5s would be a start 24.202.127.119 04:19, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think the healing is really relevant to the problem though. The only problem is that this is a hex with a 2 second recharge. It doesn't even matter what it does. It could do nothing at all and be broken just because it's a hex with a 2 second recharge. --TimeToGetIntense 02:21, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Until we start seeing a direct equivalent for Restore Condition, Draw Conditions, and Dismiss Condition w.r.t. hexes, a 5e 1c 2r hex will be a problem, regardless of its actual effects. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 02:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Well i'll probably be the only one who thinks this skill doesn't need a nerf above 5s especially since there has been many hex removal implanted into the game since Proph. I'm mainly talking about P/Me with Expel Hexes and the underestimated and underused Hexbreaker Aria, the upcoming Spotless Mind, if there's not also Deny Hexes (can easily remove up to 2 hexes), Holy Veil (when used correctly this skill just owns every single hex spell before it actually gets covered) and Purge Signet. I think those who complain about "heavy hex covering" just make a bad use of the skills i've mentionned. You also have to consider that in a hex heavy team, it's not parasitic bond alone that makes everything, there's just too much hexes. Maybe you've been suffering from hexes that got covered when you were in RA or something but i'm pretty sure that's because you weren't well prepared. I'll just like to know where you take conscious of the overpowered-side of this skill, i'll just ask you to go with a well-balanced team in TA and train yourself or go in GvG. I agree Parasitic Bond is the Most powerfull hex covering skill in the game however a necro alone with this doesn't make the whole thing, just consider the casting time, every balanced team has interrupts, i'm pretty sure a good Ranger can use distracting blow or a mesmer diverison to pwn that skill. IMO This skill doesn't need a nerf, and if you decide it needs one, 5s reload is enough but it won't change anything and he will still be used the same way, necromancers will just wait an additional 1-2s before casting the hex they want to cover with PB. Before complaining about the covering effect of this skill, keep in mind that if a necro can't cast his Price of Failure/Reckless Haste it's mainly your fault cause it's 2s cast well not your fault but see what i mean, if there's nothing to cover then PB is just rather useless :p Even faintheartedness and reaper's mark can be shutdown without having to make an awesome kikoo lol build especially designed to counter a necromancer :p Besides we're talking about the cover power of this skill, which is related to the skills actually covered by PB. Those skills usually doesn't have low recharge (faintheartedness is 8s reload if i recall correctly). You can leave the necromancer spamming PB everywhere he just wastes his time and mana if he doesn't cover anything "dangerous" 88.122.33.120 11:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Im not basing the overpoweredness on RA and TA. In fact I am basing it on GvG experiences, and this skill does have a too short recharge for its effect. --Renegade 18:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the best cover hex in the game. It has low energy cost, low recharge and an effect when it ends. The long duration covers most long lasting nasty hexes. I have to say that this skill is one of the reason why people do not bring hex removal that just remove one hex because it is most likely this hex. --Shadetz X 05:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * After we nerf this, let us then humiliate the necromancers even more (about having no useful skills), by making them wear Top Hat's and speedo's. Hooray! Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 06:37, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If this skill gets nerfed, people will find other covers. There is nothing wrong with this skill.  One could even say it's a bit underpowered. Shard 10:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * /agree

This skill can easily take down any melee attacker if left untact. If also makes the caster temporarily invincible to melee classes as they rarely hit over the heal.-- §  Eloc   §  10:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would think the high energy cost would balance out the fact that it only temporarily stops a physical attacker. Anyone who attacks through it would probably attack through Empathy. And that's not very smart... --Kale Ironfist 10:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Still, in PvP, it can be brutal having to wait, 15 seconds for this to wear off. Basically you got like choices, attack and die fairly quickly while not doing any real damage or stand there like an idiot while your party gets pissed at you. Either way that's 15 seconds of free healing for the caster and it can be kept on for the entire match if Energy allows it.-- §  Eloc   §  11:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * One of the less annoying anti-melee hexes imo - it doesn't see much use in GvG because unlike FH+PB or RH+PoF it doesn't actually stop a warrior spiking someone (except the Necro who cast it). Errr 12:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. I don't think this is overpowered, just as Empathy isn't - it does a little damage, but it does not prevent a melee character from acting. This is just a nuisance, not shut down, IMO. Erasculio 13:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill is unaffected by Frenzy (life stealing) only occurs of you hit so you can get adrenaline. Its not overpowered at all.--Renegade 12:32, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 50 dmg per time you attack can be brutal if you're anything with IAS.-- §  Eloc   §  05:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not really energy permitting, especially since the hex doesn't drop the Warriors' damage output. In itself, it is exactly the same as Empathy only more expensive and takes longer to recharge (with a lower activation time). And Empathy is more deadly due to Frenzy. It's not the overpowered skill you're making it out to be. --Kale Ironfist 06:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * But what I'm trying to say is it basically makes a Melee class useless for the 15 or so seconds if they're attacking the caster unless they're hitting above 50 every single time.-- §  Eloc   §  10:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a shut-down skill, it does what it's supposed to why are you moaning? It's not particularly overpowered it just does what its meant to. If it's really affecting you that much then you need to get it removed, just call it and as long as you have decent hex removal it will come off. It's a good skill yes, overpowered...no.-- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 11:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Eloc - try attacking someone other than the caster. This isn't a 1v1 game.  Errr 13:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well RA/TA is only 4v4 so not alot of choices to go through I suppose.-- §  Eloc   §  04:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

(RI) You're scraping the bottom of the bucket to provide a justification for saying this skill is overpowered, Eloc. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 04:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ?-- §  Eloc   §  05:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars was never balanced for anything smaller than 8v8. Besides that, there are THREE OTHER targets for you to hit. Anything else you'd like to say? --Kale Ironfist 23:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fo Sho. Even if you're attacking 3 other targets, you're still losing 50HP every 1.33seconds approximatly.-- §  Eloc   §  02:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is the point of the hex. Characters do not operate in a vacuum. If you don't have a means to deal with hexes, they will cause you trouble. That's fairly simple. This hex happens to have both a middling duration (15-16 seconds max), and a fairly high energy cost (15e), plus a conditional effect (target must attack). There's nothing here that screams "overpowered!". [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 02:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Regardless, I still find this overpowered.-- §  Eloc   §  12:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well you are wrong. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 12:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Like said above this is not overpowered. It does its job: shutting down melee.  Hexes are supposed to be meddlesome.  Granted, there are hexes that are more than that, but this is not one of them.  Like Aiiane said, if you dont have a way to deal with a hex, then they will cause you trouble.  Thats their job.--John deathblade 03:39, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * By that logic, then ANet should nerf backfire too, since it deals 140++ damage. 76.64.186.175 04:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

and
Although I have no problem with touch rangers I prefer seeing necromancers utilizing these skills instead. Is it possible to change these touch skills into spells so that they can be used on a necromancer with Cultist Fervor? I'd like to see a new way these skills are used. Touch rangers are getting old. --Shadetz X 09:25, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummm no. They are old, but they aren't overpowered, and they aren't hurting anyone. If anything they should be in the underpowered list. --72.74.237.104 04:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If you fail to a toucher, then you fail at the game. Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 06:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * lol, whoever the guy above me is, he is a hoot. Readem   Sorry, I'll stop trolling now.  07:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not the skills, it's expertise. It's been overpowered since day 1.Shard

Soul Reaping
I know this isn't an actual skill, but it isn't really posted anywhere else. Especially broken in HA with n/rt spirit spammers. Infinite energy is a no-no in any game. It should work the way it used to, just not on spirits or minions. Less complicatd + less broken. I'm tired of fighting team after team of 3 monks with infinite energy. Shard 04:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't cut down energy gain on minions, unless you seperate PvE from PvP (which is not going to happen). Regarding spirits, I think you need to provide some further explanations. Energy gain via Soul Reaping has been nerfed recently, there is a cap based on time, and you can only gain energy from your own spirits. Maybe it's still too strong, but you should refer to the latest changes. - TeleTeddy 23:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am aware of the latest changes. Three trigers every 15 seconds, expluding when you have max energy.  Let's say a necro/rt healer has 16 soul reaping (which is what they run).  Every 15 seconds, they gain 8*3=24 energy.  3 pips of eregen = 1 energy per second.  So 24 energy/15 seconds = 1.6 energy per second = +5 energy regen, assuming that they are ONLY getting energy from minions and spirits.  Do you think a class with permanent +5 energy regen (at the least) is balanced? SR should work only on non-summoned creatures. IMO Game Balance (for a game marketed as having balanced pvp) is more important than how easy it is to MM in pve. Shard
 * N/Rts running 16 SR are doing it wrong. HP is more valuable than one or two energy when the healers are the prime targets for attack. - Auron 08:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that's a naive fallacy. 1) You can't get more than 24 energy every 15 seconds - no matter who else dies apart from your spirits/minions. 2) You have to pay for your minions and spirits, so it's not a net +5 energy regen. 3) Summon spirits/minions tends to be very time consuming, as most of these rituals/spells have long casting times. 4) There are game mechanics like interrupts and such, which completely ruin your calculations. Granted, a +5 energy regen is strong, but you don't get this 'for free', you have to invest time and energy, and it's subject to interrupts, so you can counter it. In a skill balance discussion, you cannot assume that no one will interfere with your actions. Of course, a counter doesn't make something balanced, but you have to include these counters in your reasoning, at least. Maybe Soul Reaping is still overpowered, but I fail to see that, yet. - TeleTeddy 09:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Remove Soul Reaping from spirits completely. Necromancers shouldn't be more viable with spirits than Ritualists are. Dancing Gnome 04:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * no thanks, sr was already nerfed the last time 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * just get rid of energy gain from spirits.24.47.18.113 21:35, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Do this to Soul Reaping - "Whenever a non-summoned creature dies, you gain 1 energy for each point in Soul Reaping." It will then be balanced. Shard 23:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The first and most obvious step it to make soul reaping no longer work with summoned creatured. Then just rebalance minion costs.  Sure one necro pays for the minions but he generates a good 40 or 80 energy from them. -Warskull 20:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I lol'd when I read "Granted, a +5 energy regen is strong, but you don't get this 'for free', you have to invest time and energy, and it's subject to interrupts, so you can counter it." You must be really pr0 i you can interrupt a primary attribute.
 * Also, I don't pay for my minions. One of the other 2 necros on my spiritgay team does.  Soul Reaping doesn't need to be counterable; it's a primary attribute.  All it needs to be is at a power level where you can't create infinite resources (energy) for yourself/teammates. Shard 12:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe TeleTeddy meant that the summoning skills can be interrupted. I agree that SR + spirits is overpowered compared to Boon of Creation + spirits. -- Gordon Ecker 02:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this is going to get any tweaks for a long time, I'll do other tweaks and try to address any issues with soul reaping in other ways before I try and touch soul reaping, it effects to many other aspects of the game and it's just not a safe thing to change without negatively hurting a lot of different game types. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There are mainly two ways to abuse SR in PvP: Minions, and Pets. Let's talk about flavor issues.  Minions don't have souls.
 * Now let's talk about gameplay. If you're a pve minion master and you don't have enough energy to make minions, then you aren't killing things.  If you aren't killing things, why are you a minion master?  I see no problem in taking SR off minions.
 * If you want to stick to flavor for the pet issue, then they should continue to give soul reaping. You'd have to change a lot of things (things you probably don't want to change all at once) to prevent gameplay abuse with SR+pets. I'd really love to see teams stop bringing N/Rts simply because they can have infinite energy all match combined with the (for the sake of this argument I'll refrain from using the word broken) powerful rit heals. Shard 11:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If reaping off of minions is a problem, I think the best solution would be to prevent it from triggering off of other people's minions. -- Gordon Ecker 05:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? To make an already complicated attribute even more complicated?  "Whenever a non-summoned creature dies, you gain 1 energy for each point in Soul Reaping" would work just fine.  Minions do not have souls.  Why not give us Soul Reaping from visual effects while you're at it? 72.235.48.41 10:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Being a minion master is one of the very essential parts of the necromancer, just like healing is for monks - you shouldn't eleminate that whole concept by killing energy gain from your minions. However, I would agree with a change like "Whenever a non-summoned creature or one of your minions die, you gain 1 energy for each point in Soul Reaping." - TeleTeddy 09:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Look, if you're a MM and you're using an animate spell, something must have just died. Unless you forgot to do your attributes, you just gained 10-12 energy.  It basically costs 3-5 energy to make a minion.  I don't see the problem of "*cry*, i cant make minions because they don't net me 10 energy anymore." Also, minion skills can be changed to compensate for a SR change.  Keeping SR for minions solely because of minion masters is a very, very weak argument with many workarounds. There is absolutely no reason to keep SR for minions. Shard 03:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Seems like you don't see any reason, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is none. ;) Gaining energy out of your minions is a huge advantage, and I do think, that (at least PvE-)MMs need that. Of course, you could tweak all minion spells and reduce their costs, but then again, this comes with drawbacks, too: Right now casting a minion spell costs much energy, but you get it back, when your minion dies. But that requires the minion to 'live' first - if your spell was interrupted, or if the enemy used the corpse more quickly than you you have lost a great amount of energy, making it quite 'dangerous' to cast a minion spell. - TeleTeddy 16:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

i have mentioned this before (first time here). Soul Reaping, nor its description, is not the problem. it is not broken, imbalanced or whatever you want to call it. the problem is allowing skills that can "manipulate death" to exist. its does not matter whether it is a minion or a spirit. i'm not even counting pets because as far as i know, there is no way for you to kill your own pet. any skill that can kill or destory your own ALLIED minion or a spirit is the only way to exploit Soul Reaping. even arenanets' own nerf to minions back when factions was release, by adding a cap to the number of minions can contribute to the manipulation of death. animating another minion while you are already at the capped limit is part of the manipulation of death factor. summoning the same spirit type while another is still active is part of the manipulation of death factor. theses methods are the only way to exploit Soul Reaping. if any of your own allies, including minions and pets, die at the hands of the enemy, then it is all fair game as far as Soul Reaping should be concerned. there are only 8 skills in the game capable of instantly killing or destroying allied minions or spirits (3 necros and 5 rits if i remember correctly) that can exploit Soul Reaping. the cap or max number feature is the other. this is where any attempt at closing the exploit of Soul Reaping should be focused. - jayce 64.253.5.164 11:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you really think killing pets & minions is your own fault? So basically, bringing pets/minions and Necros is a (maybe not all that) subtle way to prevent enemy area damage? - TeleTeddy 13:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * i think people trying to exploit Soul Reaping are not doing it to prevent enemy area damage. i think what i said above is the way it really is. i think i would rather change 3 of my own skills as a necromancer instead of furthering attempts at butching Soul Reaping. i think there is a very simple way to solve the exploit involved with creating minions and spirits, but a few rangers, and most definitely lots of ritualists, might hate me for sharing it because it would ruin spirit spammers. - jayce 64.253.5.164 17:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My point was: Unless you stop using AOE spells, you will automatically kill pets and/or minions, providing energy for any Necromancer - so you can't reduce the problem with Soul Reaping to that what you call exploiting. I see your point, but I don't think it's as easy as that. - TeleTeddy 20:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * who are you refering to when you mention "you stop using AOE spells...?" what does AOE have to do with pet/minions/Soul Reaping? you will have to forgive me, im a little tired right now, so i don't see the connection. are you using that in reference to allied "you" using AOE against the enemy or enemy "you" using AOE against your allies? either way, it would mean me using it on the enemy pets/minions, and i do not see a problem. the death of the enemy pet/minion would be caused by my own doing from attacking them. then Soul Reaping kicks in like its suppose to and not because enemy decides to kill their own minion to reap the reward. it really is that easy because no one could have anything to say if the enemy, instead of an ally, cause the Soul Reaping effect. - jayce 64.253.5.164 03:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Look, suppose you run a team consisting of three Eles, two using Savannah Heat, Tenai's Heat etc, one using Deep Freeze and stuff. Suppose furthermore your enemy brought pets and minions, and enemy backline is low on energy, so you really don't want anything (except the enemy backline) to die. Now what do you do? Using your AOE spells will get either pets or minions killed, fueling the enemy backline with energy. But not using your AOE spells isn't that clever either, typically most of the damage comes from these Eles, and if they stop casting their spells the pressure is gone, and the enemy backline can recover from their energy deficiency. Of course, it's not that simple, but I think it helps to clarify my point. The duty to ensure that pets and minions doesn't get killed might be more unbalanced than the energy gain itself. - TeleTeddy 10:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He's referring to people who pvp. This is a pvp talk page.  Soul Reaping is both abusable and overpowered in pvp.  Everyone knows this.  There is a simple solution to fix SR: No energy from minions, no energy from spirits.  If pve MMs are going to cry about it, make all minions cost 5 for all I care, the only good minion in pvp is Shambling/Jagged horror anyway.  The simple fact is that by sacrificing one skill slot on one character, you can give multiple allies a bottomless energy pool at the cost of anything dying anywhere. Shard 09:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is not a PvP talk page, this is a skill balance talk page. The discussions on the overpowered skill pages revolve primarily around PvP because overpowered skills generally have a far greater impact in PvP than they do in PvE. Anyway, I don't think that dropping reaping off of minions would hurt PvE minion masters that much, especially if they adjusted the cost of minion skills. Removing it from spirits would hurt N/Rts, but it would also allow binding rituals to be buffed without having to worry about secondary abuse, which I think would be a net gain. -- Gordon Ecker 10:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Shard, perhaps you should read/re-read the fourth sentence in my first post. in fact, you should probably read the entire post and read the last sentence in my third post. then, if you can understand that, i will gladly listen to and discuss any reasonable suggestion that you may have reguarding Soul Reaping. /sarcaism - and i sure as hell didn't think that TeleTeddy was talking about single player - /endsarcaism. in the situation that he is describing, you will have to choose the lesser of two evils, but in no way, unbalanced as he put it.

Gordon Ecker, removing the Soul Reaping effect from minions will almost certainly destroy the minion builds in general. please don't forget, its not just the cost of raising the minions that you have to consider. you also have to maintain them and yourself as well, which cost far more than actually raising them in the first place. as far as spirits are concerned, most necros probably would not care if Soul Reaping did not trigger off of spirits. after all, we are talking about a core profession here. after two hits to Soul Reaping reguarding spirits, people are still complaining about Soul Reaping and spirits, which now, only rewards the casting necro that created it, and even when they can't use the "shared" arguement.

don't get me wrong. while i am clearly defending Soul Reaping, i am also reasonable. my suggestions to closing the ONLY way to exploit Soul Reaping is very sound, viable, reasonable and easier than changing the mechanics of the attribute itself. but at the same time and after months of some considerable thoughts, i also have a change suggestion for Soul Reaping that offers about the same amount as the current version for a single death with a lower return from that of multiple deaths, but a return nontheless. it contains something of the old or first version of Soul Reaping along with something new, all without totally destroying the necro profession.

Soul Reaping:

Whenever a creature near you dies, you gain 1...5..6 Energy Regeneration for 3 seconds (Non-Stackable) and 1...5..6 energy (Stackable). You only gain this effect for Spirits you create.

i had rather not shared this at this time. but in order to let you know that i am open to reasonable suggestions, i went ahead and offered one of my own, should a change to the attribute be necessary. while this change still does not actually close that exploit that i described above, it is a change that rewards far less than what it used to so it should balance out or closer together than what they are now. - jayce 64.253.5.164 08:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Are there any objections to archiving this after the latest spirit nerf? -- Gordon Ecker 03:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * no objections here. in fact, they should archive both contents in the overpowered necromancer skill section. - jayce 64.253.5.164 08:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If the 3-4 people who share my opinion haven't already made it painfully clear, if SR gets nerfed, minion costs may be changed to compensate minion masters. As I've said before, this is the biggest (only) reason why arena.net is hesitant to change SR this way, and it can be worked around effortlessly.  There is absolutely no reason why SR can't be changed to "non summoned creatures."
 * On a side note...I would like to address whoever decided to make pets not have corpses. Can you explain this to me?  I can't wrap my mind around the fact that when I smash someone's pet with a hammer, it disintegrates into a pile of dark, massless flesh.  Do its bones magically dig themselves into the ground or something?  How does it make the death growl if it doesn't have a voice box or lungs?  Are pets spirits?  When your dog dies in RL, does it cremate itself for you?  How does it give necromancers two to three free spells if it has no body to house a soul? Shard 20:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Pets no longer have corpses so that spiritway is less ridiculous. Lord of all tyria 20:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they "fixed" spiritway by taking a list of the very few skills still viable in GW and slashing a few of them off the list, while not fixing a still overtly broken mechanic. Izzy and friends, this is not how you balance a game:
 * "Skill A is a decent skill. It is used in many builds, only one of which is overpowered.  Let's eliminate Skill A from play in all the aforementioned builds, while leaving the actual problem in the overpowered build."
 * This is how it should be done:
 * "Skill A is a decent skill. It is used in many builds, only one of which is overpowered.  However, that build is not overpowered solely because of Skill A, it is overpowered because of Bad Game balance Decision #162.  Let's undo or fix Bad Game balance decision #162."
 * Sorry for the rant, I just find it fascinating that "professional game balancers" can do such a horrible job at simple things. Shard 20:37, 26 November 2007 (UTC)