User talk:Shard/Sealed Deck

Ranked
Obvious question is how are these being rated? Is there a trend or something? Maybe it's just a common sense opinion type rating? ~>Sins  WDB 14:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm taking MtG's rarity philosophy. All the common skills will be ones that have a good general use in any situation.  Rare skills will be mostly elites, as well as some skills that we definitely don't want to see too often in sealed play.  Uncommon skills will be specialty skills that occur commonly enough to make the matches interesting.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 22:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * MtG was the absolute definition of bad-ass, but I stopped playing after the Urza's set came out because I could sense it going downhill. Tempest and its 2 expansions were the best, imo.  Anyway, this looks neat... I remember there being some program on some site somewhere that generated the decks, but it didn't take rarity or anything into account.  I should get my ( largely ups, entirely nonexistent) guildies together and do a tournament of one of these.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol Smiter's Boon is on the banned list.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 06:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I consistently placed in the top 33% in any sealed deck/draft tournament I went to, so that probably makes me infinitely qualified to do this. I think that makes you 67% qualified to do this =P ~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 06:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL nice 1.
 * @Jette: Anet is planning to add sealed play (or so we think). This is for that, although it would be fun to do some custom matches in the meantime. I wrote a program to draft cards for any game a long time ago, I probably still have it somewhere.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:10, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sealed deck in GW?! I would so start playing GW again if that happens. By the way, i play MtG also. But i don't have any cards from latest releases, latest cards i have are from 10th Edition. I haven't found anyone to play with me lately :( But while i wait for ArenaNet to add this feature to the game, i might join yours sometime. Maybe they'll have this in GW2, i sure hope so.
 * And where have you heard that Anet is planning this?
 * Nevermind, i think i found it :P - J.P. [[Image:User Jope12 sigicon.png|18px|Contributions]] Talk  04:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Praise
I really like this idea. However, you might not be guaranteed the right skills as a warrior, since weapon swap is harder than casting a different spell from a different line. I'd like to see this implemented. StatMan 02:22, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, and believe that you should be able to choose which weapon you use (or, if not, then at least be assured that all your skills will be usable). --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 03:22, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean the chance a warrior will get more than 1 or 2 axe skills is low? If that's what you mean, then you're right.  This isn't about getting the right skills, though.  In sealed deck, the challenge is to make the best out of what you DO get. There are no rules against which weapons/armor you can use, and I don't think there are any reasons to impose any. Some previous sealed deck tournaments allowed the use of a wild card... I'm considering adding that, but with restrictions. It's hard to playtest a system that doesn't exist yet.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * True. I was never good at sealed deck, mainly because all the guys I played with got mad at me for trying to pocket the rares while they weren't looking.  Actually, I was never good at it because I'm a cheap, combo-exploiting  bastard.  :<  Eat my channelball.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was just saying that it would affect warriors more, because of weapon swap issues. Probably a non-elite wild card would fix it, or a common wild card, because as you said, you shouldn't be guaranteed to be an axe warrior, but you should have a good chance of a usable build.  StatMan 16:07, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, with the addition of one common skill wild card, I am getting all excited. Now we need to play test it, and have lots of lolzors and beer.  I would love to help play test it in a controlled environment, but my schedule for the next two weeks isn't good.  StatMan 04:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I need to finish the other professions' lists, then I need to find my draft program, then I need to convert the list to the draft program's format. Keep in mind I'm developing three other games right now, so it definitely won't all happen within the next two weeks.  I'd be happy to start a draft sign-up thing for players/guilds interested.
 * I also need to consider how to handle players who don't have all the games. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 04:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Why isn't Searing Flames banned?
SF is overpowered.
 * only if you run 5+ of them otherwise it's fine -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 23:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What adrin said. SF Spike is overpowered. One SF ele is fine. (the chances of getting more than 1 is less than 0.01% if they're rare (they will be rare)).  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * LoL Interrupt SF and they are worthless. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] DrogoBoffin 23:12, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In a setting where buildwars doesn't exist, overpowered skills are a lot less powerful than they would be otherwise. You might be surprised to find out people would choose other elites over Searing Flames if they decide to run an ele.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, SF in mass quantities is too much. I think it is a bit powerful in single doses.  The randomization of skills will prevent duplicates across the WAY, thereby removing BuildWAY.  The chance that a group does get a build way, is probably the same chance that you can't make a viable build.  StatMan 23:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Plus, even if you did draw multiple copies of SF, the chance you'd draw enough energy management to fuel them is slim at best--118.90.96.20 17:17, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Secondary Prof?
How many from secondary? seems to me you should have twice as many from your primary than secondary. StatMan 23:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When it isn't lolbuildwars, secondaries don't cause problems.
 * There are no secondary profession restrictions. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:14, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I forgot the Direct Object in my first sentence. I was talking about skills.  I'd assume you can chose any secondary with any primary.  My question was how many and what type of skills do you get on your secondary?  StatMan 14:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * As many as you want. There are no restrictions to which or how many skills you can use, as long as you only use skills assigned to your team. Many people are overestimating how gimmicky people will be able to be.  I've seen this stuff in application (not for GW of course), and it is NOTHING like constructed. I think this experience will surprise (and hopefully satisfy) people who haven't ever done any sort of sealed play before.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Condition Removal
Why is there a hex removal freebie, but no condition removal? I'd think Mend Ailment would be a freebie skill. --Jette  23:53, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are you comparing hex removal to condition removal? ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to go with something in between "because they have similar functionality" and "because I'm bad." --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In short, conditions are usually less powerful and easier to remove anyway. Hexes aren't.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 01:31, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "easier to remove"


 * Not if you has no condition removal skill. :<  Actually, hexes might be pretty balanced when you can't bring 20 of them at once (well, unless you get lucky).  Condition removals are generally better at what they do than hex removals, this I agree with, but my point was that some conditions (I'm thinking mostly of dazed, blindness, and deep wound here) are powerful enough that not affording a monk a skill to remove them with at all might be unfair.  Then again, I probably ought not to be touching random format balance with a 40-foot pole, given how rarely I play random-type stuff.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Very few of those conditions will be used (Deep Wound if anything), all a team will need is one condition removal, and depending on which they get (or wildcard), it will recharge every 2-5 seconds. Hex removals have much higher recharges, usually have bad effects, and I didn't want sealed deck to be full of hexway. If playtesting shows conditions to be a problem, I may add a free condi removal (though I am more likely to change some rarities).  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 01:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 02:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

PvE/PvP
Is there a split? Or are the PvP versions removed? Titani  Ertan   00:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sealed deck will be pvp, so naturally, pvp skills will be used. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 01:30, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So why not give a little shake to the failed ones? That would make more options available. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 10:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Because I don't control ArenaNet? These will be real in-game matches, and I don't have the d3v h4x to get pve skills into gvg.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:46, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Remove Hex Freebie
So, at most one person one a team can have it as a freebie. Sounds fair. Why isn't the skill in the commons too, just in case you wanted 2 copies of it on a team? StatMan 14:03, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There will be other hex removal skills to choose from, unless you get really unlucky, in which case you can still wildcard cure hex. Hexes are typically more powerful and harder to remove than conditions, so I wanted to give each team the choice to have that extra defense against them.  If it turns out to be a bad choice, I'll simply take it out for future tournaments.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Wounding Strike?
Figured you'd ban it, but I guess it'll just be restricted/high-cost. Touhou 15:49, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The only banned skills are ones that either nobody will ever pick, or ones that can't be countered in any way. Wounding Strike (and all other attack skills), has tons of counters.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * WS isn't "Fuck this, fuck dervishes, fuck nightfall, I'm quitting guilwars" without either (a) Mystic Sweep and/or Eremite's Attack, (b) Conjure, or (c) a team spike that WS can put DW on every 3 seconds. Short of that, it's really an (balanced) elite version of Dismember (which happens to be a skill that dervishes don't have a nonelite version of =/ ).  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  20:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wearying strike? Pious assault? One of those you can even completely ignore the downside for, and that's also the one with half the recharge of dismember. - Auron 03:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When does Wearying see play anywhere ever outside of treeform? It's a pretty terrible skill, tbh.  Pious is absolutely the furthest thing from a pressure skill.  I'd say WS plays a lot more like Dismember than either of the scythe mastery DW skills.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  04:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When does dismember see play anywhere outside of war's endurance? It's a pretty terrible skill, tbh. Both rely on an amazing elite to carry them in real play, but neither are anything like shabby. Also, this meta is full of smite monks - that means lots of smite condi. Wearying would be perfectly viable, people just don't run it because WS is so much better (and there is no other elite choice worth mentioning - again, smite monks > melandru form). Dervishes are so fucking overpowered that you can look at a skill like Wearying and say "meh." That's just a clue how broken the entire class is. The ultimate irony? They're only run in gimmicks, because their lack of utility and armor make them terrible frontliners in competitive play. It's almost like ANet designed the class to be run by shitters, to farm other shitters. - Auron 10:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And monsters. You can farm them with it too.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 10:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Questions
Sorry to bother, I'm very new to this sort of thing. We start out with 20 skills, correct? And we have to make some sort of build from those 20 skills, hopefully to mesh well with the other people of our teams, correct? Do we pick our professions before or after we get the skills? Are there any restrictions on the way runes are used? -- Tha Reckoning   02:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Because players can trade with other members of their team, I am just assigning the skills to entire teams instead of individual players, and they can coordinate who gets which skills. In a 6v6 situation, each team will get 120 total skills to make 6 builds from.  There are no profession or equipment limitations.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sweet, thanks. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|20px]] 02:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

To be clear
My account on here is named Tha Reckoning, which was my original character, long since banned. I will be on an account by the character name of Pvp Monkey Man, but that is not the only profession I can run. -- Tha Reckoning   03:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ok ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Are we waiting until skills come out, before we decide which primaries to roll? -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|20px]] 22:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Question
This would be the second time i play sealed deck-way and jw how you pick the skills, or is it with a website using a code ..thats how my first one was →Darklɘs  McChaosmongɘr  05:58, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a program that generates the packs randomly. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 19:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Guild Name
That Skill Is Banned [imba].  Raine  - talk  04:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I already picked it. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 05:22, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Lawl it's going to be in GW format now
From Linsey's Journal: We hope to have customizable Sealed Deck UI so that players can refine the rule set for scrimmages or player-run tournaments, but this isn’t expected to be done for the initial release of the format. If the new format is successful, we’ll consider investing the development time to build a ladder and tournament system for it. -- adrin  00:33, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Missing Skills?
You are missing Price of Failure and Animate Vampiric Horror in your lists. Are they banned? If not what category are they in? -- Silent Storm   16:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sometimes when I'm moving things around, I forget to paste them back in. If it's not in the banned list and it's missing, it's a mistake.  Thanks for pointing those out.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 20:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)