User talk:Gaile Gray/GW:EN Armors

Prior to this, I had originally asked about some of the leaked armor sets, to which you had answered that the ones I had shown you were actual armors that were going to be appearing in GW:EN and not fakes. As more and more Armor pictures are being uploaded onto the wiki and forums, we begin to see all of the armors from the leak now appearing in-game. Now I'm not sure how closely the devs have been keeping watch on other parts of the Elite FanForums besides the Riverside Inn or Community Discussion, but please take a look at:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462136 | http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10193337

A majority of the GW:EN armors are old armors which have been either reskinned or have some minor tweaks to the model. Is there any specific reason the Armor Design people decided to go this way? Looking back at other campaigns the tweaked armors were few and we saw a lot of new models and variations in the Armor sets, but GW:EN seems just the opposite, for example:

This is the 15K Drakescale Armor for Prophecies: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Ranger_Elite_Drakescale_armor_m.jpg

I recently purchased the Asuran Armor: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Ranger_Asuran_armor_m.jpg

The same exact model is used, I've tested this as I own both sets and mixing around either of them will show you that nothing changes other then the skin used on each.

Back during the leaked pictures I believe you were not allowed to make any further comments regarding it, but now that it's been released will you be able to give any response regarding this?

Just to repeat what I've said before in the GWO thread: "Recently Gaile opened up two pages in the official wiki one for graphics bugs one for text bugs. And they been amending alot of clipping errors some armors are suffering in the game now. They do care about they're playerbase and I'm sure if enough people take the time to give they're input there we may see some changes in the future. Prior to release I thought perhaps if anything they were placeholder armors till the actual armor could be put in, but that seems less and less possible as more of these leaked armors begin to show up In-game. All in all I'm a bit disappointed that these finally got implemented but the vast amount of things GW:EN has to offer, has overshadowed this downside for me."

I know clipping errors and changes in the armor sets are probably worlds apart but I strongly believe a great part of the community would be very happy if some changes were implemented to the Armor sets to give them a more unique feel rather then just being a copy of another current armor with a different skin. That said thank you in advance for any answer you can give on this topic. Xitoahc 01:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd have to agree. I am a big supporter of ANET, and I always stand up for the decision the team makes, but the reskinning armor hit me where it hurts.  ANET talked about new content for old players.  The recycling of armor (especially when we have to earn a high faction title) as "new content" is disheartening.  Are there any plans to expound on the armor, and make it more unique than just new textures?--Darksun 06:42, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer new sets added instead of reskins suddenly changed. I like a number of the Eye of the North sets myself, and I'd hate to craft a set only to have it look totally different all of a sudden. --Goteki-45 08:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Same here. The armor is a bit of a letdown. I was wondering why Anet started reskinning and didn't advance on the things they did in Factions? This is an expansion, so in my opinion we deserve a bit more then we got in Nightfall(armor related talking). So I would like to know if this can be changed in the future in some way? As of now, i'm not interested in ranking up my titles and buying armor. Thanks for hearing us out.


 * Yup, same here, a huge disapointment from the Design team, we all know what they are capable of, they made some beautiful armours in the first three chapters, and seeing these reskins in GW:EN was a bit shocking. Even though most of them are really nice and even better then the original ones, the fact that they are reskins is sad. Especially if you have to work so hard to earn enough factions so you can actually craft the armour. A bad grain in an otherwise superb expansion. - Leonora Windleaf 12:56, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep, the moment I saw the new armorsets it struck me they were just re-skinned old ones, sometimes mixed bits and pieces of different armorsets put together, but really nothing new here. Actually a lot of the re-skinned versions aren't even that good. I find them bland and at most mediocre, certainly not worth the bother to grind a title for. I became even more disappointed when I saw how beautiful some of the upgraded versions of the new hero armors were: [|Hero armor upgrades]. Disheartening to say the least. And to quote someone in that thread "I wish they had given us an option to buy the hero's armor instead." Liselle Morrow 13:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * When I heard that there was going to be 40 new sets of armor, I was keen to get a new set, as the ones on my warrior were getting old. I saw the leaked ones, and hoped that they weren't the REAL sets, as they were terrible reskins. Now that the game is out, it's even more of a let down, because not only are the armors boring reskins (warrior is the worst), but Anet seem to have added LOTS of extra Hats and Gloves to take our attention away from it. It's as if adding a 75 ecto pair of Chaos Gauntlets (just to name one) is enough that the horrible armor reskins shouldn't matter. Personally, extra hats and gloves are no where NEAR the top of my list of things to buy, so it's very disappointing that they are the only thing that I would want to buy, as I already have sets of armor virtually the same as the 'new' ones. -- F enix 15:56, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The new player armors are overall very disappointing because they look too similar to existing armors from previous chapters. I'm **very** disappointed that we cannot acquire the warrior armor on Jora or the ritualist armor on Xandra, for example. Both of those armors are very very very different-looking from anything seen before, and quite cool. Why didn't the players get new, different, refreshing-looking armors such as these? I agree with some of the other posters that we shouldn't replace the existing "blah" sets in GWEN, because some folks will like them and already have ground for them. But really, if you're going to make us wait 2 years for Guild Wars 2 and aren't planning on putting out any more chapters for Guild Wars in the meantime, is it really so difficult to have your art staff come up with a few more worthy armor sets for GWEN? As it stands now, grinding for GWEN armor will not be one of the things that keeps me around playing GWEN for 2 years. Shaktiboi 16:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I just saw the Hero Armor Upgrades.. New models & Skins. Ouch! What a kick in the pants!--Darksun 18:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

The initial question is "Is there a reason why the armours are this way?" My first answer is to say that one reason is because it fits the story, the location, and the very lore in which we are currently involved, with Guild Wars: Eye of the North. My second answer is that this is in fact not a new game but an expansion pack. I've played a lot of games, including XPs, and I don't see anything substantially different between how the armours are designed for GW:EN and how things played out in the other XPs. So again, there are certain inherent justifications for the way the armours appear. One of them is real world: this is an XP, not a new game. One of them is story-based: We are revisiting areas that have a direct connection with the lands we traveled once before. We are, after all, in Tyria. While not all armour is Tyrian in look or feel -- particularly for the non-Tyria-born -- doesn't it make sense that you are in the same land and having armours that are visually related to that land seems right, in the context of continuity and lore?

I will certainly be happy to ask those more intimately involved in these decisions about this matter. However, I do not anticipate that we will set the Art Team to work on creating brand new armour for the Tyrian-based expansion pack. However, again, I will be happy to ask about this and will let you know what I learn. --Gaile 19:17, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Some reskins are ok...Necromancer Asura armor is great. Some look like they purposely don't match, See Assassin Dwarven. Edit: The pieces do not fit with each other, and individually, the pieces do not fit with other armor sets. --Deathwing 19:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the responce Gaile, however it still leaves me a bit confused. There are armors that don't seem to even fit in with the Lore, I mean the Rit Seitung reskin fits in well with the tropical setting/Asura, but the Kurzick reskin for the Rits(Monumental)? So Ascalonian crafters all of the sudden know how to make exclusive armor for the Kurzicks? Considering that the Hero Armors are just spectacular, awe-inspiring even, I am disheartened by the apparent lack of inspiration in a lot of the new armor sets. And as Deathwing has mentioned a lot of the armor skin pieces just seem mixed and matched from various sets, which overall don't go well together. Just because this is an expansion its suppose to justify all this? This is coming from a fan with a collection of many many Ascended sets, and it just hit hard with the armors, I am very happy with the rest of the content EotN has to offer but I strongly believe with a little more effort it will go a long way with making these armors more grind-worthy and overall more fitting with both Lore and continuity. Xitoahc 19:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding Hero armors, I think they look how they look because they were made to fit the personality of each character, not the profession he/she has. In other words, Gwen's Deldrimor armor isn't a Mesmer armor - that's a Gwen armor, from one of her concept arts we had seen months ago. So I don't think it would be fitting, nor would like, to be able to use Hero armors on our own characters. However, I do agree that way too many armors are reskins of old ones - some, like the Assassin Asuran armor are a complete reskin of one armor, such as this one in this example. Notice how all armor pieces are the same among both armors - it would not have bothered me if it were a partial reskin (some pieces of one old armor and other pieces of other armors, or with something new in the mix, made to fit together), but as it is, those literally reskinned armors are just a copy from each other. Erasculio 23:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Quote: "Just because this is an expansion its suppose to justify all this?" Yes, that's how I see it. It's not a new game -- it's an expansion pack. There is enough content, in the primary repeatable quests and the multitude of maps and additional quests -- to fill most games, it's true. But GW:EN is, and has always been heralded as, an XP. Therefore, I would say that, in my personal opinion, it would not be a realistic to expect that one should have all the features of a new game, all options for completely new sets of armour, any more than my Protoss were completely revamped in Brood War, or any more than Gordon gets a different suit and a new pair of specs in Opposing Forces. ;)
 * I don't want to imply that this an "official statement" in response to your concerns. I'm sharing this in a casual sense, here on the "chat corner" of my talk page. Because I'm not at the office I cannot confer with the design and art leads to have their input on formulating a more formal answer. But again, as a personal opinion and a personal expectation, based on years of playing new games and expansion packs, I think the presentation of armour in GW:EN is fine. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 00:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that one of the factors that added up to the disappointment was the fact that a campaign4 was planned/announced and replaced by the expansion and that if campaign4 had been done instead then (people would have assumed) it would have included new armor sets. I personally felt a bit let down by the reskins because I'm just so obsessed with the armor art in the game, but some of the reskins are actually decent. But I know you have said Gaile that creating armor sets is a very complicated process, so I can understand the logic behind using old rigs and having time to spend on the other content like the headgear and gloves. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 01:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We never announced "campaign 4." If this is a common perception, then I think people have built unfounded expectations and are using them as a basis for complaint, which is a bit unfair. It would be rather like running down Harrison Ford's latest movie simply because it wasn't Indiana Jones 4, even while Indy 4 wasn't announced. That may seem a little off the topic, but if you think about it, I think there is a parallel. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 02:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is just an expansion pack, that is true. However, 40 New Sets of Armor was advertised. If it wasn't supposed to contain new armors, it wouldn't have said so. I'm OK with reskins, like I have said, some of them look pretty good. Necromancer Asura, and Warrior Monument are a couple that actually look good. Most Norn armor looks pretty good. Dwarven armor though, for the most part, is hideous. The Assassin Dwarf armor is the worst I think, fueled even more by the fact that Assassin Monument AND Norn are both reskins of the same armor. Look at Assassin Dwarf, you can't seriously look at that and think "that doesn't look bad, I might get that". Here it is. Not one piece of it matches another. I apologize to anyone I offend with this rant, and if it is any consolation, the scenery/environments are absolutely amazing. --Deathwing 01:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Your opinion != everyone's opinion. I personally like the male assassin dwarven armor, and was torn between it and Norn for quite some time. I eventually decided on the norn, due to the lack of the mask for dwarven and the fact that dwarven armor can't be put in the hall of monuments yet. But still, when I first saw that image, my thoughts exactly were "that looks pretty good, I may get it depending on how I like other sets." --Goteki-45 01:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, precisely! What some have shared is personal opinion. What one has called "hideous," another person has reacted to with a "Hey, cool!" There are a lot of choices in armour, and it's probably true that no one will react to every single piece in the same way. As with anything in the game, I encourage each player to feel free to exercise your right to acquire what you like and reject what you don't like. I discourage anyone from making a "cause" of this by demanding the immediate replacement of this armour set or that armour piece based solely on how he or she feels about it. When that happens, the person who likes it is affected, and that's not fair. In the end, there are an awful lot of choices, and that's a good thing. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 02:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not asking to change the armors, but how about adding a Silver Eagle version for all characters? Isn't that set the 41st? Making Warriors have 5 sets instead of 4? --Deathwing 02:10, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you prove it's not the same thing as Dwarven armor? As of now, the war Dwarv and Silver are teh same images. ‽-(eronth)  I gi  ve up  02:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure can --Deathwing 03:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response Gaile. While I agree this is all subjective, the idea of using previous armor models is a big letdown for people buying the game with an advertised 40 "new" armor sets. If the main reason behind the rehash is to save time & to make less work for the team (because it's an XP not a campaign) then why are the armor sets so hard to get? Never before in Guild Wars have we had to grind for points so hard to get the least original sets of armor. I can understand the idea of making them cheaper for Anet to make, but then making it so hard for players to get seems like a contradiction.  Also, the idea of fitting in the story doesn't make sense since most of the reskins are of Canthan & Elonian models, but made by Tyrian crafters????  Anyways, I have yet to find a person in game who did not notice that my Monument Armor was just a reskin of previous armors. The universal reaction was disappointment.   I like my Monument Armor (except the choice to show the knees... ugh) but I feel a bit cheated on the "New" armor.--Darksun 03:03, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * So far the armor in GW:Factions is the cream of the crop in orginality of appearance and total coolness factor. I wonder if different people made the armor in Factions than in Eye of the North. If you click my sig and see my mesmer, you'll notice he's wearing all Factions armor. He has been for a long time. Nothing comes close. Every time I log in, at least 1 person I group with comments on how cool the armor is and how they want to make a mesmer suddenly. XD --Redfeather 04:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Most of my favourite armor for each profession comes from Factions. I think the complaint is less about the new armors being a re-skinned variation of existing armors. I think it's more about the wow-factor, in that the new GW:EN armors don't cause a "I want it!" reaction from a lot of players. Sure, there will always be people who like them, but it's just that there appears to be more people who expected something more. Or maybe it's just an expectation level that got a little too high. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 05:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * So basicly you are saying that the art team decided to reskin, beacuse it fits the lore ? Then please explain to me, why the assassins monumental armor looks like it does, from what i know monumental armor= Ebon vanguard armor, wich is somewhat ascalonian armor right? wich is strange beacuse we get this http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin_Monument_armor and anton gets this fancy armor: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Anton (I'm not even going to mention the rest of his stuff, as it sadness me to much.) Does these match? From what i'm able to see we get something wich simpely don't fit in lore wise, the same goes for the asurian armor :( was it supposed to be a aztecian reskin?. Whisper 16:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, one can try to explain the re-skinned armors from a lore point of view, but to a vast majority of the players in Guild Wars all the new armors are are just lame re-skins of previous armor sets showing a lack of devotion and commitment throughout the Guild Wars art team. Now, I know this may not be and probably is not the case in the art team, but one thing a company should consider most when making a product is the people they are selling it to. So far GW:EN has done a very good job of appealing to the Guild Wars community; it has gorgeous landscapes, fun dungeons, and chances to gain more knowledge of the races present in Guild Wars 2, but what it fails at is the armor sets for players. Now firstly the reason why I say for players is because the armor sets for heroes are remarkable; they look simply amazing, but that is just one more factor to why the players are growing so restless and distressed when looking at the armor sets for players. They simply fail in comparison to not only to the new hero armor sets, but also into the creativity shown in past Guild Wars armors. As it stands now, the armor sets are a huge let down and are not worth the time involved in getting them just to receive a reworked set of old. If Anet truly wishes to please its players, show the creative spirit it truly possesses, and possibly hold onto many more players for the upcoming Guild Wars 2, I believe adding some original armor sets could do just that. There are a few ways new armors could be implemented. The Guild Wars art team could take time to design and make new sets of armor just to hopefully please a restless community, or, which I think is a better option, they could have a design an armor contest. This contest would harbor the symbiotic bond between the customers and the company; something which all companies hope to achieve. The rules of the contest could ask for players to design armors they wish to have in the game. The armors must follow suit with one of the four races and must be for one of the eight professions. Once the contest is over, Anet could choose one, maybe two, armor set(s) for each profession for each race and implement them in the game. If that would be too much, the armor contest could just ask for new armors for each profession, and they could make one new armor for each profession based on the entries they receive in the contest. This way new armors the community is asking for would be in place, but in addition they would be straight from the minds of the players. Whatever the case, I believe new unskinned armors for the players is justified. Finally, if you could forward some of these ideas to the development teams it would be greatly appreciated. 72.55.217.160 17:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC) [IGN] The Last Windseeker
 * The last time I checked, the art team would prefer that we not hold such a contest. For there are many, many elements of armour design that would not be understood by the general community, and it is extremely doubtful that any of the designs would be workable with our character models. In fact, most would decidedly not work at all, despite looking great in concept, I'm sure. Designing a weapon is relatively simple, and the weapon interacting with the character models and the armour of those models is something that the art team can work into the actual weapon design that they come up with based on the fan concept. However, according to those who are expert in this field, someone can design the coolest looking armour in the world, but it won't work at all with the character animation rigging, or it isn't resizeable, or it's not possible to create a form that resizes to body types and the two genders.


 * I want to be very clear about something: There is no lack of cool ideas for great armour within the art team. I could say "go" and half a dozen artists could sketch out cool armour in 10 minutes. The time-consuming aspect is not the design or the conceptualization, it's making it work: Fitting it to all the body parts, hooking it to the vertices (I think that's the term ;) ) sizing and resizing, making sure that it looks great from every angle with every one of hundreds of different animations, emotes, etc., etc.


 * So thank you for the suggestion, but that really would not address the major issue involved, which is the enormous amount of time and staffing needed to create new armours. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 18:52, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I dare to say that puting few armors into one armor set and giving them a slighty diffrent skin isn't "creating". It's called "redoing". Or, like we like to call it, reskining. I think that they made all new 40 armors really faster then, lets say, all 1,5k Kurzick Armors. Abedeus''[[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 19:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the quick response Gaile, and I realize it may be time consuming to make new armors, but taking the easy way out just to redesign old armors is not the thing that should be done. People are paying almost as much money as a full campaign, and are getting less. I believe players should at least be entitled to newly created armors. After all, this is the final installment to Guild Wars 1. New armors is the least they could do for their players. As it is now it just seems like a rushed attempted to get "new" armors into a game so they can begin working on Guild Wars 2, and although I am all for the team working on content for Guild Wars 2 they should at least put a full amount of effort into the game that is out now and has players now. As of right now, Guild Wars is my favorite game and because so I am attempting to state what I believe is best for the game and the community of the game. Guild Wars 2 will not be out for a few years now, and the final installment of armor sets the first game receives are almost all reskins which is a very bad choice made. Hopefully some original armors will appear in the future.72.55.217.160 19:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[IGN] The Last Windseeker
 * Well, it is time consuming, but I for one would rather Guild Wars 2 be released 2-3 months late and have great armor in GW:EN than having mediocre armor and a few month earlier release of Guild Wars 2. But yeah, not my call, and I can't speak for everyone. --Deathwing 20:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I guessing the official response is "We can't afford to make more original armors for Eye of the North" but is it possible to communicate to the team the the unrealistic requirements for armor that is just reskins? It is true that we payed almost the same amount for an XP as we did for Prophecies. Reskinning armor because it's an XP really doesn't add up since we have less explorable areas, no classes, no character creation, no PvP, less missions, less skills, etc.. I don't know if the $10 difference is equal. =( In the least, please express our views to the team. --Darksun 22:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is "expansion pack" industry slang for "inferior product"? I don't want to slam the effort that did go into making Eye of the North, but the very 'in your face' corners cut between 'new armors' that consist almost entirely of straight up reskins, and entire dungeon levels that are copy/paste jobs of each other, imply little other than the expansion being a rush job.  I understand that your team tried to pack a lot of features into EotN, but in the process neglected essential, core aspects of the game.  Whether or not you do anything to fix the mistake after the fact, this is a pretty monumental failure that someone at the company should be held accountable for. -Ensign 05:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, and actually, how dare you so blantently play down the work that went into the making of Eye of the North. Not only is it incredibly resource ineffecient, as Gaile said above. But we don't need 400 sets of armor for each profession. Eye of the North armor was not "cutting corners". It was the melding of armor styles and looks from the previous campaigns. I fail to see how a person such as yourself has the education or skills to judge the work done by the ANet team. If you think Eye of the North was so monumentally bad. Then you know what? Go play another game. - [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  05:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If it is not worth the resources required to put new armor sets in the game, those resources should not be spent at all. If they only have the resources to make so many real dungeons, they should stick to that quantity.  Cutting corners and copy-pasting to increase the number of bullet points on the back of the box cheapens your product, and I'm going to call them out on it. If a feature is 'non-essential' and you're not willing to put in the effort to do it right, what else are you possibly going to accomplish by doing it, badly, anyway?  -Ensign 05:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They didn't do it badly. You think they did. But guess what, that's your opinion. And guess what else, no one cares about your opinion. I'm not meaning for this to be a personal attack. But I think the fact that your attacking ANet so blatently over something you find so awful when really, it isn't. You can think that GW:EN is such a copy-paste, then so be it, but do us all a favor and take your negative attitude to another game - might I suggest WoW? - [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  05:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you done ranting yet, Drago? QQ? Readem   Promote My Ban Here  05:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing much to complain about. The strategy Anet used, is rather popular by most entertainment industries. Release a game quick, so as to keep peoples attention occupied while they design something newer/better (Or to merely make money). This explains not only the basic level design and reskinned Armor, but the lack of Elites as well. The only thing I would blame Anet for, is making this fact so blatantly obvious. Don't worry Gaile, my Page has exceeded 200, and I don't think anyone died ;). Readem   Promote My Ban Here  05:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

At this point, this talk page is getting added to every few minutes, and I'm in a flurry of trying to archive to keep the page accessible to all. Please know that I have read your comments, complaints, and suggestions, but I will not be responding to this topic until I have a final, formal statement to make. Until that time, I ask that you please not continue to add to the thread, for I feel that all points have been stated many times. --Gaile 22:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please let me add that I'm not trying to stop discussion, and I'm not trying to squelch the expressions of concern. I do believe we have a clear example of the issues that players perceive, and that is what prompted my comment immediately above. Thanks for understanding. :) --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 22:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I was actually just looking at all the armors tonight, comparing how similar so many of the "new" sets were. I had taken notice of this when I first started seeing the GW:EN armors but I honestly hadn't stopped to put them side-by side till tonight. Sure, there are a LOT of obvious re-skins, some more obvious than others (Ranger Elite Drakescale & Ranger Asuran, Assassin Elite Imperial & Assassin Asuran,  Warrior Templar & Warrior Dwarven,  etc.) which really makes one feel a bit gypped when it comes to the advertisements of 40 new armor sets, but that aside... the lack of work put into such a key element of the game as armor plays... coupled with the mess with the Hall of Monuments being changed from a place to show off your achievements and what's important to your character to nothing more than a place to show off specific titles, weapons, and such that have been deemed 'cool' or '1337' enough to be worthy of the Hall of Monuments, based solely on the Dev's opinions of what is a good pet, weapon, armor combo, etc. ...really does not say much for the direction the game is going in. Then there is the introduction of PvE only skills that were supposed to give PvE players an edge over the normal skills so that they can compete with monsters with levels and power greater than any player can attain... but now the PvE skills are getting nerfed down to being weaker than normal skills, one by one, and soon there won't be any of them able to do what the skills were originally designed to do, which was be more powerful than normal skills and give players something to fall-back on when skills that were once good in PvE get nerfed out of play due to PvP gimmicks or even the rare PvE gimmick builds.

I've been a hard-core player since May of 2005. I've played well over six thousand hours and I have seven individual Guild Wars accounts (mostly because it took so long to get the option for extra character slots and I wasn't content to not have every profession and usually a male and a female character for every profession, sometimes more) and almost all of my accounts have all three campaigns on them and extra character slots as well. Yes, that means I've dumped a heck of a lot of money into the game in the past 2+ years... but I always thought it was worth it. After Nightfall (you can tell how great it was by looking at all the copies of it dumped in bins at Game Stop for like $20-something each when the other campaigns are still priced twice that) I really started to wonder if I was going to regret my investment, but now that I've seen GW:EN, I know I have. I originally pre-ordered copies for all my accounts, but thankfully after the preview weekend I didn't purchase the expansion for all of them, and I don't at all intend to now. It's very hard to jump ship at this point after all the time and money I've invented into the game and the community... but I feel it's really the only option... from where I'm sitting it looks very much like the ship is sinking. I might still think about checking out GW2 after it's been out a few months and the reviews are in, but if GW:EN was any indication of what to expect, I can't see myself playing it.

Sorry to vent all over your page, but since the topic was already here I figured I might as well toss in my two cents. Everyone else has. Just wanted to get that off my chest, and I hope things do end up differently and GW2 is a raving success. If so, and things do change drastically for the better, I'll see you there. If not, well. I'll still be playing around with my current slew of characters in my spare time. :) ~    J.Kougar  07:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I seriously do not understand the logic of snubbing GW2 because one is upset with GWEN. Because an expansion made solely as an extension of the original game and introduction for new races is REALLY going to be a good indication of what an ENTIRELY NEW GAME is going to be like. Also, I didn't buy GWEN just for new armor. I bought it for ALL the content. I think people try to focus so hard on one thing they don't like. If you are unimpressed with the armor, you could just not get a new set... there is a ton of other things to do in GWEN... you know, the actual game itself? GWEN is an expansion, not a new game, and you all knew that from the beginning. Why not go out and have fun with the story instead of getting stuck on a smaller part of the whole experiance. -Kamiawolf 08:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if you'll read, I did mention that I was very unhappy with Nightfall as well (like many people) but GWEN was an expansion, not a stand-alone expansion like Factions and Nightfall... which let them skip the designing of a starter area and new classes and quests for all that, which should have left them more time for the rest of the content, and not just a bunch of re-skinned armors, cut-and-paste dungeons, and boring yet repeatable quests that you can use to grind the required title points that are set far too high as is. GW:EN has a few neat things, the Boxing is horribly limited but at least still somewhat fun, but far too much of it is just repeats and re-skinned monsters and armors that lead to very disappointing 'new' content.  That aside, it's not just GW:EN that's pushed me away, it's many things (I listed quite a few) and all that compiled together on top of the disappointment of the latest expansion that was supposed to bridge the gap as well as show us what to expect in GW2.  I don't think it's so unreasonable to be unhappy with the direction the game is going, given all I pointed out in my first post (and all the things others have pointed out in this section alone).  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  08:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I thought Nightfall was amazing. At least a incredible improvement on the unfun Factions. I also have been impressed with GWEN and enjoy it (with the exception of the seriously overpowered builds in the Norn Tourny *bitter*). Ive liked what ive seen with the armors and saw the changes they made on the Hall of Monuments between the preview weekend and launch day as proof that they do listen to the community. I think that most of this complaining over *waaah* "re-skinning" is just ridiculous. You didnt pay 35$ (or whatever you payed) for new armor. You payed for a ton of other content as well, and you got it, no matter how much your buyer's remorse wants to tell you otherwise. -Kamiawolf 09:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You said before that you think those "not-so-unique" armors are because EotN is an expansion and not a new chapter. However, for me the difference between "Addon" and "Sequel" is not quality, but quantity. For me an expansion meant: the story will be a little shorter, not so much heros, not so much armors etc - and I considered that ok, because you are right, it is just and expansion. But I expected, that this - smaller - content would have the same quality as previous chapters. And in almost every other aspect of the game, this was achieved. I really like the landscape, the quests, the story etc, but I certainly dislike many of the armors. Not simply because I don't like how they look - everyone has a different taste, and there are many armors in previous chapters I did not like either, but because of the fact that most of the new armors do not add diversity. Previous chapters did that. ~ Fenrik de Arvis 09:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

'''Hi. Please keep in mind Gaile has asked for the stop of all new additions to this topic till she is able to give a final formal statement. I ask that you please hold your opinions till then and respect her wish. Thank you~''' Xitoahc 10:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But also keep in mind that further edits are unavoidable, and you won't be punished for continuing to discuss if you so wish. - Auron 11:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

hello, i'm very disappointed in the gw:en armors. what bugs me the most is that all heroes get unique new sets and we get reskins. most of these reskis are blatant and poorly done. since the art team did design new sets for heroes, i would like to know if it was possible for them to make them available to players. they could just switch things around and give the reskins to the heroes and their armor to us. that way they wouldn't need to work on something new. for example replace the asura and vanguard sets with a hero upgraded and non upgraded version :) just switch the codes and most players would be happy. Allience 12:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I too am majorly disappointed in the GW:EN armors. I personally LOVE armor and buy it as often as I can. I am very saddened by the fact that the Heros all have cool armor and we just got re-skin rejects it looks like. Why can't we get the armor that is as good as the heros? I would pay for that whereas I do not see the point in buying "most" of the re-skins.... [[Image:User_Foxysheri_sig.png]] Foxysheri  03:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You guys are right! I just took a look at the screenshots of upgraded hero armors... and I was like, "Wow, those are good!" And then I was wondering why in the world is my character (the star of the show) getting armor that looks inferior to the armor my heroes (the supporting cast) can potentially get... Is there some kind of mix-up here? Like Allience said, why can't my necro get Livia's armor? Her armor looks wonderful and easily trumps all the re-skins... sigh. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 07:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think Livia uses a player model. Her.. uhh.. chest area is a bit different. >_> - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 07:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I don't think it looks bad at all. Readem   Promote My Ban Here  07:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Heheh, yeah, I know it's not as simple as swapping the code. I was just ranting and didn't see Xitoahc's message above. I was just so looking forward to finally buying another set of elite armor. Oh well. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 07:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll agree with most of the comments people have written here. I'm quiet ok with the other skins but the assassin dwarven female armors dissappoint me a bit :( I hope the time saved here will have been used effectively in the developement of Guild Wars 2. - IronHeart 10:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm regretting spending $35 on a time-saver :/ - Auron 11:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone noted that the Ritualist Asuran is pretty much a seitung reskin?:/ - Nephele (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind the reskins if they weren't so obvious, or if the skins would have been reworked more - IronHeart 08:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

In the end, all I really can say is that I'm sorry to hear that some of you don't like the new armors, tell you that the dev team is actually quite proud of the GW:EN armor sets, and let you know that there are absolutely no plans to rework any existing armor in the game --Gaile 21:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for shutting up the whiners :p. Some of the armor are great imo (even some reskins). Guess you can't please everyone... One more question involving armor, though: will new armor sets be added later on (similar as to what happened to 15k Knights and Labyrinthine)? Maybe a Silver Eagle armor set for all professions instead of just the Warrior? Saph 21:25, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, so they are proud of a bunch of cheap knock-offs? lol  That doesn't say much for them.  ;)  Besides, it doesn't matter that they like or if they think they look good, the Devs are irrilivant really... it's the paying customers they have to impress if they want people to buy the product and recommend it to friends... and with so many players so unhappy with the GW:EN armors and even GW:EN in general, you're sure to get more people telling their friends not to waste their money than to go play Guild Wars.  The Devs aren't worried about how much it's going to hurt them finantually by putting off more and more customers?  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  21:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As much as I hate to agree here, he's right. Isn't this supposed to be about satisfying the players? I understand you can really only hope people will like the designs, personal taste is something hard to satisfy for everyone. But I do think that reskinning the armor was a big no-no in general, but was done in good taste here. --Lou-Saydus[[image:User Lou-Saydus Hail Storm.jpg|19px]] 21:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Gaile, the devs should be proud for their work on the new Hero armor, each and every one of them looks amazing and shows a great attention to detail. But do you seriously expect us to believe that the obvious re-skins of the player armors was not a result of a tremendous lack of time and resources dedicated to this part of the game? --Draikin 01:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I hate to be negative, but I would have felt better if the developers had said "Yeah, we just ran out of time." Because if they're proud of the GW:EN armors, what quality control will we see in GW2?  I love most aspects of GW:EN.  The two things that disappointed me were 1) the Hall of Monuments during the preview event (which is much improved now, thanks) and 2) the new armor art (which apparently won't be improved).  I don't think it's just some of us who are disappointed in the GW:EN armors, I think it's upwards of 50%.  There aren't a lot of people running around in the new armors, and similar discussions regarding GW:EN armor are showing up on a lot of GW fan sites, like this 372 post thread on Guild Wars Guru:


 * http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10193337


 * Or this thread on Guild Wars INCGamers lamenting about how Anton's Brotherhood armor is so much better than what players got in GW:EN:


 * http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462943
 * I feel like I'm at an intervention. Anet, we cannot make things better until you admit there's a problem.  Help us help you! :P  Ok, so that it's not all negative I will say that I think all the other art in GW:EN is top notch and up to the team's usual high standards.
 * --Ctran 11:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You know, you make an excellent point. This is very much like an intervention, an intervention to save the game from the developers.  If they don't see the problem with the majority of their customers being unhappy with the product, then it really doesn't bode well for the future of the game.  Lets hope they take notice and make positive changes?  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  13:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

hi, my first time posting on a wiki website. Just wanted to say that I too am disappointed with the new GW:EN armors. I own all of the campaigns and this expansion is the only thing I regret purchasing. After beating the game, I would usually start spending my time making and saving platinum to spend on new armors, but none of the new sets are appealing (many here agree). I'm trying to keep my interest in the game, but it's hard. I wasn't even going to post anything, but I'm concerned with the lifespan of this game that I used to play for hours a day. Sorry if this post isn't in the place where its supposed to be, it's my first time trying to post on here. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Ninjalord.
 * Welcome to the wiki, it's just rather sad that you had to have something like this to bring you to posting for the first time. I've heard it said before that the people who complain about issues like this are just the "Vocal Minority" and that we don't matter as far as ArenaNet is concerned, but so many people (myself included) went from being a casual player to a member of the forum and wiki community because of issues with the game and seeking out a way to express those concerns in hopes that the company is listing.  I'd like to say that I joined the community just to chat and praise the game, but really it was to express concerns for the game... and it's a shame that so many others end up in the same situation... forced to finally speak out because they feel that there is something wrong and they want it fixed so they can continue to enjoy their game.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  13:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Gaile, I know it's impossible to know how many people are disappointed in the GW:EN armor, but my experience on forums & in game say it's more than "some". As reskins I think the Dev team can be proud of them (the textures are well done) but the idea of having such a huge amount of, obviously, time/money saving designs is way below the quality we have seen in Guild Wars.  And to add insult to injury we have to get to level 5 faction rank to even buy them.  We weren't expecting the same amount of content as in Prophecies, and we didn't gt it. No new classes, no character creation, only 4 sets of armor, not as many missions, not as large a map, no elite skills, etc... but we expected the quality to be the same. It just... isn't.  I'm a huge proponent of Anet, I tell my friends and acquaintances about them, but this is the first time I've seen the quality/value waver.  If there are no plans to add armor that is actually new, I don't know what to say. Um.. Sweet? --Darksun 18:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Seconding what Darksun said, as s/he said it well. I've brought over ten people to Guild Wars, I've always been a proponent of the game and it's excellent design, but the latest expansion falls short.  I agree with many in saying that it would be impossible to remodel existing sets.  A very real option would be to keep up the company's standards and create what was promised; 4 complete armor sets for each profession. If you ignore the community to focus on Guild Wars 2, then Anet may well be shooting itself in the foot.  EotN and it's armor in particular is a bad final note to leave loyal fans with, as it shows a serious lack of effort.  If someone asked me if I was going to buy GW2 a few weeks ago, I would have said yes.  After seeing the armors & the hollow effort in general, I think I'll be talking to my friends, guildmates, alliancemates & the general GW acquaintances and advising them not to jump on the GW2 boat. Craw 15:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * First off: the new armors are a huge letdown. Everyone thinks they are a huge letdown.  Sure, there might be a set or two in there that you think is awesome (for me, I love the Monk Monument armor - I think it's great), but the rest are kind of "eh".  There are numbers of armor sets that are obviously, obviously, obviously reskinned and very little to no effort was put in.  Take a look at Warrior Kurzick armor and Warrior Asuran armor.  Come on, we know you can do better than that.  To be honest, I wouldn't have minded if the developers said "we missed our deadlines, so we reused models".  I still would have been disappointed, but if this is "40 new armor sets!" - should I expect GW2 to be a reskinned GW1?  I know this has been said before, but honestly: we paid $40 for Eye of the North.  That's pretty much more than what the other standalones cost now.  Fix your mistake, artists, please.  You know it was really tacky to reuse armor sets, and you knew we would recognize it right away.  Add more.  Give us what we paid for.  Lutz 06:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the thing is, it's not 40 new armor sets. They've stated that Dwarven armor isn't a set (Which is why it won't go in the Hall of Monuments.)  So they essentially tricked us, with information on the game box & official site(s). Craw 14:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * On the official site, it says "40 new armor sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces". It's only the wiki page that has been misleading, in my opinion (I have edited it now to be less misleading). As it says including, it's obvious the stand alone pieces are part of the 40. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 14:52, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The issue is that reskins are hardly worth being called "sets". Everyone finds it a cheap solution, and are disappointed in what they got as "sets".  Also, Anja Astor, if you are saying the Deldrimore Armor pieces are sets, then we would have 41 (since the warriors have 2 "sets")  The whole thing is misleading, everywhere.  In the end, the problem is the reskinning, not if the stand-alones make up 40 or 41 sets.--Darksun 17:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, not "everyone" thinks they are a disappointment or are unhappy with them. Kamiawolf 07:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, not "everyone" ...just the majority of the once hardcore fans. Which is the problem. They said they'd elude to what we could expect in GW2 with the GW:EN expansion, but all it has done is show sloppy workmanship and unoriginal content... so as others have said here already, should we expect GW2 to just be a cheaply reskinned GW1?  I guess so, and that's not worth wasting more money on.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  12:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry Kamiawolf, I should have said lots of people, or a majority of the people on the guru forums, or most of the people I've talked to ingame.. That better?--Darksun 20:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * People who like the armor and the game PLAY it. People who are unhappy complain in the forums. I really dont think ANet is going to cry and beg you to play their game if you are so unhappy with it. If you want to boycott GW2 before you even see it or know anything about it, its really no skin off their back. Kamiawolf 20:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

"People who like the armor and the game PLAY it." Not true kamiwolf, I play the game because I like the game. That doesn't mean I like the armor, and I know alot of people who still play the game but really hate the armor. You make it seem like complaining is a bad thing, but if it wasn't for all the complainers during the preview weekend, the Hall of Monuments would have stayed as bad as how it was then.
 * You miss-read me. People who like the armor dont sit around complaining about it in forums and such. Meaning, when someone says something like "the majority of people ive talked to in the forums dont like the armor", its not exactly an amazingly accurate representation of how many people like something or not. People who like the armor are playing the game happily right now, not like the people who are unhappy and dedicatedly making sure people know it in the forums. And complaining isnt bad, EXCEPT when you are complaining about something that either can not be changed or will never meet your satisfaction if it is. They are not going to suddenly reskin all the armor in GWEN just because someone doesnt like it. I would be super pissed if i logged in to see my Monument armor suddenly changed because i like it the way it is. If you dont like the armor, then dont buy it! There are plenty of other armors in the game (and you can only wear one, you know) -Kamiawolf 23:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware there are some people out there that like the current sets, nobody is saying "everyone" hates the armors. Of course changing the current armor wouldn't be possible, but adding new sets would still be possible. I'm happy you like your reskinned set of armor, but that doesn't make it acceptable to everyone else especially when GW:EN advertised 40 NEW sets. Whether or not it's the majority of the guildwars players, I know there are ALOT of people unhappy with the current armors. Hey btw, how do you reply to someone so that the post is indented, I keep making a new post. Ninjalord 01:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Since they cant change the current armor you are so unhappy with, they can only add new content. And wouldnt it be better that they didnt feel rushed to throw out new content because some people are upset so they could TRY to meet your high expectations?
 * You indent by adding ":" marks . The more you add, the more indented it is. -Kamiawolf 18:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Honestly, they should add an actual Dwarven set for all classes, which would take the count up to what they initially promised, advertised everywhere, and stated right on the product's box. However, they should also throw in another set as well, as an apology to the players for lying to them, cheating them out of what was promised, and giving them only part of what they agreed to but rushing those so that they are nothing but generic looking re-skins.  If they made an official apology and statement that they were going to add twenty new sets of armor, that aren't pathetic re-skins, by such-and-such date, I'd be happy and might actually pick up the rest of the copies of GW:EN that I pre-ordered and they didn't buy for my other accounts because of the way GW:EN turned out.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  18:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They didnt lie to you or cheat you out of anything, so stop blowing it out of proportion just because your unsatisfied. -Kamiawolf 19:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As many other people who can do math have already pointed out here, 31 is not equal to 40. Thus the false advertising, lying, and ripping off of the customers.  :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  23:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because you are unhappy, does not mean that GW has lied to you. Once agian, stop blowing it out of proportion... or call a lawyer and do something about it instead of complain on the forums, if you think its such a big deal. -Kamiawolf 17:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ignoring the obvious and repeating the same statement over and over again while turning a blind eye to all the unhappy folks, really isn't very productive. I'll address your misconstrued argument in further detail below, as to not needlessly repeat myself and that which so any others have already stated.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  00:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Forget the new armors, forget the relatively low quality of them, forget the reskins. What many of us are complaining about is the fact that it was advertised that we'd get 40 new sets, and we didn't. We got 31 (Asuran, Norn and Vanguard for the 10 professions, plus Silver Eagle for warrior). Anet has stated outright that Dwarven Armor is not a set. It's obvious at a glance that it's not a set. It's falsehood in advertising, to tell players on the game box & sites that they get 40, and then only provide 31. Craw 02:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well then maybe you all should just cool your jets for a spell... because no one has EVER heard of ANet introducing new content later after the release :| If they ARE going to give you another set of armor, then wouldnt it be better that they didnt feel completely rushed so they could TRY to meet your high expectations? -Kamiawolf 18:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really, I think they need to be pressured to at least make an official statement that they will be adding more armor and when. At this rate it won't be too long before people start looking into False Advertising and the specifics and trying to bring a lawsuit or something against ArenaNet for their blatant false advertising on this campaign.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  18:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, just to point it out, the press release/box says "40 new sets, including rare, stand-alone pieces." Indicating that the number 40 included the stand-alone dwarven set plus the other unique head/handwear.  Which is what was provided even if its not what was expected.  Lojiin 18:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. No one was cheated or lied to at all... just because you dont get what you thought you would, doesnt mean they didnt give what they said they would. -Kamiawolf 19:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrong. If they had only intended there to be 31 poorly re-skinned sets and various bits and pieces of junk then they would have already responded to all the people showing concern here and for this issue, instead of ignoring it.  If the Devs or Gaile wants to come in and make an official statement that they only ever intended to have 31 sets and that they were just trying to mislead people with words like "New" and "sets" and thus really don't care if they sell as many copies of their game or if people talk their friends out of getting into Guild Wars, then that's fine and I'll assume that I was right and I'll continue to do my part in spreading the bad publicity for them for being a lying and misleading company.  If they made a mistake and are going to do anything to correct it, then they really need to say so as well... because as is it's only making them look really bad and driving away their business and customer base (or at least a very large part of it).  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  23:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Its so cute that you live in a little black and white world where either you're right or everyone else it wrong. Have fun with that. Obviously guildwars is not going to die just because a bunch of people cant get over a few armors. Plenty of people are still playing, still enjoy playing, and still like the armor... and they really dont care if you want to start a war with guildwars or not. Just because you are unhappy, does not mean that guildwars is a lying, misleading company. Im sorry you'll never understand that. -Kamiawolf 17:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I find it a bit amusing that you would accuse me of seeing things in only black and white terms, when you are trying to lump all GW players into one group and label them as either satisfied or unsatisfied with GW:EN. Hypocritical much?  ;)  That aside, you are still ignoring the fact that tons of people have posted here and in the threads on the forums, and even more in game, about how unhappy they are with the fact that they were promised 40 New sets of armor and only got 31 sets of mostly re-skinned stuff instead.  This is just like when they released Factions and promised that all characters from both campaigns would have access to 100% of all content in both games, and then attempted to block all Factions characters from doing any missions before Lion's Arch.  That's just another instance when the fans were upset by lies told to them by ArenaNet, but in that instance they changed it and allowed all characters access to everything, as they had promised.  So, why is it so much to ask that they do the same thing this time, and actually provide that which they promised the users instead of what little we actually got?  They have a long history of making promises to the players and then never keeping them or changing things along the way... so yea, I do expect that a lot of the folks who have voiced their concern already will not be trusting ArenaNet again with GW2, if they don't ever keep their promises with GW:EN.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  00:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I didnt accuse you of anything, you said it yourself that either you are right or ANet is a lying cheating company. You point out your narrow point of view through your own words. You see lies because you want to, not because they are there. You got what you paid for. Once agian, im sorry youll never understand that just because you have buyers remorse, does not mean a company is cheating you. Kamiawolf 04:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, I ask you how does them advertising 40 new armor sets and not giving 40 new (or even poorly done re-skinned armor sets) sets, not equate to them not being truthful with their advertising? The Deldrimor armor isn't a set, even the official Deldrimor armor page right here on this Official wiki state that it's not a set, so obviously then there are only 31 sets.  You call that truthful advertising?  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  04:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They never advertised 40 sets Kougar. They advertised 40 sets including standalone pieces. Which is a bit confusing, but they never promised 40 sets exactly. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 07:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That sounds like it would mean 40 sets and then extra junk, not less than 40 sets and then more junk totaling up to 40. Besides, if that were the case then why would ArenaNet not have already made an official statement explaining that?  Their actions to ignore all the folks who are posting in places like this and discussing how they feel betrayed or ripped off at not having gotten 40 sets... only makes them look like they are guilty of not having kept their promises and that they are aware that they screwed up and avoiding the fans because they don't want to admit they are wrong (as they've done before in similar situations).  If that was never their intent then they wouldn't be hiding, they'd have already stated that it was never their intent to make 40 new sets.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  12:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because you thought it would be something different then what it actually was does not mean they are cheating you. And they arnt hiding, they have nothing to explain or appologize for, so they need no statements. You misinterpreted what they were offering and now you have buyers remorse. Thats not ANet's problem, its yours. -Kamiawolf 18:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, in my opinion, if a large portion of your customer base is complaining about being ripped-off or mislead, then they very much do have an obligation to make a statement to address it. It is just good business.  Then again, ArenaNet doesn't seem to follow what is considered good business or good customer service (at least compared to almost every other successful business... and I have far too many years of experience in the customer relations and customer service field) and I think it's cost them a lot and will continue to cost them more business as time goes on.  I currently know more people (on a personal level) that were Guild Wars players and who have quit, than I do people who are still playing.  It's just good business that if you make a mistake and a large portion of your customer base misunderstands your advertisements and feels betrayed, that you make some sort of statement or apology to them for not having been clear.
 * As for my supposed "Buyer's Remorse" that you keep telling me I have, well if that's true it's not because I spent $40.00 on a copy of Eye of The North... it's because I've spent well over a thousand dollars on Guild Wars in the past two+ years... on seven accounts with all the expansions and bonuses and extra character slots on most. I had copies of Eyes of The North pre-ordered for all of them, and am glad I only bought the one copy and tried it before I spent over two hundred more dollars on the expansions for the rest of my accounts.  If I have "Buyer's Remorse" it's for ever getting into Guild Wars in the first place and logging well over six thousand hours of game play, and having to watch an amazing and fun game be slowly turned into the bug filled and poorly thought out mess that it is today, with people making horrible decisions about how to precede and not caring if their actions drive away their customer base.  I used to talk people into getting Guild Wars, not warn them away from it.  I have a hard time believing that anyone who has been into it as long and as hard core as my fiance and I have, are not greatly disappointed with how the game turned out over the years.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  21:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ANet didnt force you to buy seven accounts (which is, frankly, a little overkill) You were happy with your purchaces except GWEN so its pretty silly to no say you hate all of GW. My fiance and I have also been playing GW hard core since beta and we are both extremely happy with GWEN and its armors. Just because you dont like it, doesnt mean ANet scammed you. More people like GW then are angry with it, and like ive said to you before, the angry people talk about how angry they are... the happy people play the game. -Kamiawolf 02:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Angry people play the game to, because they don't want their spending to be a total waste even if they aren't 100% happy with the product... as long as they get something from it. Oh, and for your information, I wasn't happy with all my purchases before GW:EN, lol go look at my LJ and you'll see how critical I have been of each chapter... but just because they did things like try to scam people with the initial release of Factions and the fact that Factions had such horrid videos and voice acting meant that I wasn't very happy with it, but I still played it because I bought it and I wanted items and skills from there for other characters, so I got them and even played through the campaign dozens of times... but I still wasn't happy with the product, but I got enough out of it to not feel ripped off.  Nightfall was... well... there is a reason places like GameStop have it sitting in piles clearanced for like twenty some bucks. lol  I got it for the heroes and skills but though it was very horrid.  If it hadn't been so cheap so soon because of how bad it was, I would not have gotten as many copies of it as I did.  The story was just so unbelievably bad.  lol  GW:EN I though might be good because it was back to Prophecies, which before they nerfed it down to being so easy to play though, was the best campaign they ever made in almost all regards.  So I chanced it, even after the disaster that was Nightfall, but what I got was quickly and cheaply done re-skin of the other games, slapped together with very little effort and advertised in misleading ways to help sell the product to the unsuspecting fans.  I have to get at least some good skills and items from a campaign to be happy, and GW:EN just didn't cut it.  As for you thinking that I have too many accounts, well that's really none of your business is it?  I enjoyed the game at one point, and character slots were not available at that time... I wanted to have all the classes and often male and female versions of the classes for the different armor possibilities and such... so I bought more accounts to enjoy the game, it's what I needed at the time.  Sure, I'm annoyed that the game has steadily gotten worse over time... but that's only to be expected.
 * Still, you are just dragging me more and more off topic. The point is, as is overly evident, many people feel mislead by the advertising, and even more people are unhappy with the quality of things like the armor.  ArenaNet should not be ignoring that portion of the fans unless they feel they have reason to be ashamed with what they sold people.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  05:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * So... you spend thousands of dollars on something you didnt like, continued to spend money on it even tho you werent happy with it and you knew you wouldnt be happy with it, continued spending money even tho you think ANet cheats you... and bought multiple copies of said products you didnt like? Um... what? and FYI if you dont think its my business how many accounts you have, then dont bother advertising it. You bought seven accounts of a game you are continually disappointed in! I think this proves right here that the armors in GWEN are fine... the only person who still cares about it enough to complain is someone who doesnt even like the game to begin with. If you are so continually disappointed in GW then STOP SPENDING MONEY ON IT. With over 3 million accounts sold, ANet wont miss you and you can find something more enjoyable and less torturing. -Kamiawolf 06:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh please, don't tell me you believe all that hype too? 3 Million Accounts?  Nope, 3 Million copies of the game sold, and since most people have about three chapters, that's only about a Million accounts at best, and they have far less people playing than that now, which is why the refuse to tell how many active players they have in interviews and such, they are embarrassed at how low they are.  If they only sold 3 million copies and had a million accounts, what about the thousands of accounts that Gaile claims they ban each week?  If that's true, then the actual number of active accounts is incredibly lower... and if you've ever visited the bot hot spots you can see how many of the account are active bots.
 * I was happy with Guild Wars originally, but things got worse over time. I already had most of the accounts before Factions ever came out, and because I liked those characters I got the accounts Factions too, so that the characters I have could get the new stuff.  Same with Nightfall.  I kept spending because I didn't want to just throw away the accounts that didn't have the expansions and without access to all the skills they would have been at a huge disadvantage.  I know it might sound a little silly, but with the amount of money I already had in the game by the time Factions came out, and the number of hours played, I didn't want to stop playing because and have everything I had already done go to waste.  That's the same reason I still play now.  I hate so many aspects of the game, but there is still good in it... and I play because when you have as much as I have in game, and have accomplished as much as I have and invested as much time as I have, it's hard to walk away and admit that you wasted all those thousands of hours of your life for nothing.  So yea, I'll complain with hopes that things will get better as a result... but I won't start with GW2 and I won't get GW:EN for my other accounts... I'll play with what I have for a long time still I imagine, it's just depressing at what a once great game has been reduced to.
 * As for me being the only one left complaining here... well, if you look at the fourms and this page, you'll see that lots of people are unhappy, but most have just given up and moved on because they don't think ArenaNet is going to do anything or make any positive changes. Most people complain and if it doesn't work they move on and cut their losses.  Because I have exceptional amounts of free time on my hands I don't mind sticking around longer to keep kicking the issue in the butt with hopes that it'll make a difference.  Besides, it seems to really annoy you and you keep coming back again and again... so as long as you do, I'll find a free moment to correct your delusions.  ;)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  07:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You talk WAY too much, are pretty much just a troll, have no proof to back up your claims, and dont even like the game. You wouldnt even like the game even IF they suddenly added 100 new awesome armors. Do not blame ANet because you kept buying accounts for something you were increasingly unhappy with and dont blame ANet because you spent hours on a game you dislike. And seriously, for the sake of EVERYONE, including yourself, stop playing if you hate it so much. Just stop. The point of the game is to have fun and enjoy it and to continue playing just because you bought it and not because you like it is pointless.
 * And yeah... you really do have too much free time on your hands. Correct your own arrogances and delusions first and have fun with the whole "playing a game you hate" thing. Your issues deserve a talk page of their own. -Kamiawolf 04:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I almost feel sorry for you. You cannot see what's right in front of your face, and no matter how much I put into post to try and break it down for you to understand, it's still miles beyond you.  If you can't see that people are unhappy, even from the new posts that get added here all the time... and you can't understand how someone can dislike aspects of something and criticize it heavily but still enjoy it.  It is possible to like something a lot and still be critical of it, it's because I like the game so much that I'm so unhappy about the bad parts.  If I didn't care anything about the game I would not spend time and effort complaining about the issues... I'd just say screw it and walk away.  It's because I like the game so much that I'm angry with the Devs for doing things that ruin it and will eventually cause the game to go under.  If I actually hated the game (as you insist I do) I wouldn't play, but it's because I like the game so much that I hate the negative aspects so much.  You just can't seem to grasp that.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  07:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * And you can not seem to understand that just because you are unhappy with the game does not mean it is cheating you or ripping you off. -Kamiawolf 09:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Misinterpreting hype != false advertising. I also doubt a "very large part" of the player base will rage quit GW over this. You've made your position known, so you could stop loudly announcing it every five minutes. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 17:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I see that you are new to the wiki, here's a helpful tip. Before you assume that post have been made every five minutes, or whatnot, you can look at the signature on them and see exactly when they were posted (assuming the person who made the post signed with four ~'s instead of three).  This helpful bit of information can give you a better perspective on the time line over which a discussion has actually partaken.
 * Additionally, I don't know anyone who has quit playing Guild Wars because of the poorly done content in GW:EN or the fact that they made promises about what content we would receive but then did not keep them (31 sets of mostly re-skinned armor instead of 40 new sets) but I do know quite a few people who are looking at GW:EN as an example of what to expect from GW2, and as such have decided not to purchase that game when it comes out for fear of wasting more money. Many other folks have posted similar opinions to mine in this discussion... and I urge you to read over it and the threads linked to in the beginning of it if you are uncertain about the actual number of players concerned about the content they received in this last expansion.  :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  00:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

If they were so confident and proud of the work they put into making these 'new' armors, why didn't they advertise it that way? Buy GW:EN the new expansion for Guild Wars, featuring 40 reskinned armors for end game characters?

That's right, you wouldn't. If that is what you said before release, I can guarantee you there'd be more than a few complaints before release meaning lower sales. Reskins done right don't look so bad. Ranger Norn is a good example of how good they can look. Yet some look hideously uninspired, lazy, makeovers. It's disappointing. It's not just bad for us, the players. This puts a dent in your reputation and image as a developer. Word of mouth travels fast. While you can try and defend your point of view saying it's just an expansion or it fits the theme (which many obviously don't), we know the truth. You were too cheap to invest time and money into making new armor models for us and were satisfied in rehashing old ones. Sirocco 21:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * HeWhoIsPale, it's not "hype" it's on the BOX.  40 new sets. It's part of the official content list. It's what helps people decide to buy the game based on the features & content. That's why it's THERE.  I hesitate to call the reskins "new", but lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say they should beconsidered brand new. That's still 31. Ok, lets say Dwarven IS a set even though they said it wasn't. That's 41! wth? It's obvious something is way off. The point isn't that people want to quit the game, or that they hate GW or Anet. It's that the sets of armor are cheap. It's almost the minimal they could to have done to make "40" "sets".  Lots of people like to earn the money & rescources in the game to buy the armor, it's a great goal. The corner cutting is dissappointing and hopefully they'll add REAL new sets like they fixed the Faction/Proph missions thing & added the 15k Templar.--Darksun 21:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure Ranger Norn is new...Hyper Cutter 22:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Additionally, I don't know anyone who has quit playing Guild Wars because of the poorly done content in GW:EN or the fact that they made promises about what content we would receive..." I have all but stopped playing GW because of EotN, New armour was a major selling point for me and as a result the game has become an epic fail in my eyes. -- Scourge  [[Image:User Scourge Spade.gif]] 09:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)