Feedback talk:Game updates/20091022

Codex skills
We need an in-game list of available skills so I don't have to go into codex arena with 10 different characters just so I can see all the available elite skills. Much appreciated. Rypofalem 03:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, PLEASE! Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  03:16, 23 October 2009  (UTC)
 * agreed --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png R I D DLE 03:42, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't this go under

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Game_updates/20091022 since it's wiki-related? Than 04:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would it go there if it's wiki related? -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  04:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Asking for a new in game link I think. -- Wyn  talk  04:27, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Top of the page says "For wiki-related discussion visit this page instead." with a hyperlink to that. Than 04:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, regardless, this isn't a wiki issue, "We need an in-game list of available skills"
 * I wish A-net to wave their magical programming fingers until something is created in-game that saves me the annoyance of having to switch characters several times in order to view all of today's Codex Skills. Rypofalem 04:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Can't somebody just compile all the skills for every day on a wiki page? Previously Unsigned 06:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Who wants to make 10 characters every day and make a list of 200 or so skills? It would be easier (and more accurate) if anet added an NPC with the list or used a wikibot to do it. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:39, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added the current skills on Codex Arena. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  08:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks Wynthyst! But people shouldn't have to do that everday >.< Rypofalem 15:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * PvP characters. I would do it myself if somebody donates me another slot. Yes, my PvP characters are never deleted. Previously Unsigned 17:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Titles Gone


Couldn't we just have removed the Hero Battle Zaishen Quest instead of an outpost (renaming the other) plus taking away a title? This would just about eliminate RR-day, plus a Hero Battles player can tell you that they rarely run into /roll 100 anymore. Than 04:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It was removed because HB was not popular, not because of the zquest. Cress Arvein [[Image:User Cress Arvein sig.JPG]] 04:09, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... Linsey Murdock's talk page talks about the Zquest being a problem. I don't recall the unpopular part, I'll have to reread it. Plus, me being a selfish person, did like it. ^^ Was one of the only ways I could get tournament reward points for myself. Than 04:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Try her Journal page instead. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  04:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I read through it and she still mentions the RR-day thing too. Can't believe this journal was from August!!! Than 04:31, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It was when the plans to remove TA and HB were announced. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  06:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

PvE Hench updates
Overall looks like a really solid A- ... better, more well rounded for certain. ...Only negatives I saw:
 * Gehraz was given Attacker's Insight even though he has no Attacks that cost more than 5
 * Herta lost W-a-E ...boo, that was the main reason I usually picked her against Charr & Krait.
 * The EotN changes are just crazy in general... not bad ...they just seem a bit lulzy-random

-- ilr  08:37, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And they forgot Aurora in Jade Sea areas, she needs a new elite with the changes in comfort/charm animal. 216.66.124.18 15:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Agree with OP, this is a great update for people like me who like to H/H everything. -- Hong 16:01, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You forgot that henchmen still have no runes/insignias and thus have subpar attributes and low health, and I'm willing to bet the EoTN hench attribs got screwed up even more because of new secondary skills they received (anet probably changed eotn zho's attributes to 12 marksmanship, 3 expertise, 12 wind prayers!!!). Some hench monks still have healing breeze. And don't get me started on qqing about losing dual charge in factions. --Qwertyasdf 10:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I personally think that the henchmen updates are great. The fact you want to do pve in high speed just means you need to put Charge! on two of your heroes instead, live with it. The henchmen have needed this badly for a very long time, and I think it's great that Anet took the time to do it. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  11:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Cynn in Nightfall and Chiyo and Kai Ying in Factions, in particular, rock. Pity Alesia still has no hex or condition removal.... -- Hong 11:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Why Codex Arena is good in theory but fails in practice

 * Rank Discrimination, again.
 * Fix: REMOVE TITLE DISPLAYING in HEROES ASCENT and CODEX ARENA


 * Some professions will always have better skills available than others on a given day, leading to profession discrimination. Codex Arena is a mini version of metagame build wars.
 * Fix: Make Codex Arena RANDOM and not in teams. The random engine must choose it so there are 4 different primaries in each random team (will also make change 1b) redundant)


 * Said minimetabuildwars-influence keeps players away from the Codex Arena and leads to stiff gameplay after the latest 2 hours after skills changed.
 * Fix: See above.


 * Warriors and Assassins are naturally disadvantaged because of a) 3 weapon types and b) chaining system
 * Fix: Give Warriors slightly more skills to choose from so their average "skills per weapon type" is the same as for Dervish, Paragon, Ranger and Assa. Make sure Assassins have at least 2 lead and 1 unconditional offhand attack every day.

-- 13:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hiding titles is a joke and won't fix anything, making team arenas random is a joke and won't fix anything, and giving warriors more skills hits a snag because the same could be said about mesmers or necros or eles - they have naturally larger skill pools, so they're more likely to draw bad skills.
 * Either way, no, your lack of understanding of the game types interferes with your ability to suggest changes that will fix anything. Play more, talk less. - Auron 13:42, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Regarding assassin chains, Desperate Strike and Fox Fangs are always unlocked for assassins as long as they bring other dagger mastery skills so that they always have an off-hand and lead attack. Regarding class discrimination, Yeah, people are always going to choose the class they think has better skills/fits into the current meta the best. This actually gives people the chance to look at different classes in a new light each day. Rypofalem 14:03, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Good to hear that, Rypofalem. The rest of the issues still stands though. --[[Image:User Taki Fujiko Takisig2.png]] 14:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You think hiding ranks is going to fix rank discrimination? Furthermore, you think rank discrimination is a problem? Have you ever tried to create your own group with the intent of holding halls, and doing it without sifting through people by rank? Thought not. The only way to quickly grab players that are relatively good is by rank screening. The cool part about this is it happens on each level - there are unranked teams that form, r3 teams that form, all the way up to r10+ teams that form. And, coming from someone who has set up all of them over the years, I can tell you that I refuse to take r3s because they suck and will lose us the match. ANet implementing something to hide their rank from me will not make the group any more successful, it will just make a successful group harder to form. Long story short, that's a bad thing. If you are somehow having problems finding a group, roll your face across your keyboard during a double fame weekend - you'll walk away with a bambi even if all you did was win the first map. Rank isn't directly tied to how skilled someone is, but in general, if someone is a total shitter, they don't make it to a high rank. If they somehow do, it's easy at that point to sort them out manually. There are entirely too many bads to be wasting my time kicking them one by one after I see that they don't know how to run relics, body block, snare targets, cap shrines, stop ghostlies, interrupt shit, etc. Nothing good can come out of hiding ranks, and it is a bad idea born out of ignorance of the arena.
 * Random arenas already exist, bro. They removed Team Arenas and put in Sealed Deck. Why would they make it another random arena? Terrible idea is terrible. Also, the biggest problem with most of the things ANet puts in is lack of teamwork - Dragon Arena, Snowball Arena, etc, all should have a team arena variant, because I really have no desire to put up with total bads every time I want to play dodgeball. They sort of did it with snowball last time, but only in the GvG tournament format :/ Long story short, making Team Arena random will not fix anything, and I have no idea why you think it would. Making it random would, in fact, destroy the only remotely good thing ANet has done in many months. I'm honestly dumbfounded at how you can possibly consider it a fix. - Auron 14:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Rank Discrimination: Why? So you can have the chance to play with people who will carry you through big winning streaks? Because there's no one willing to join a Rank 0 PUG? Because you don't have three people who want to play Sealed Deck with you?
 * Profession Discrimination: This is the point of Sealed Deck; you design the best team possible in the environment created by the random pool of skills. Having trouble getting into a group because you want to play a Warrior on a day when their skill choices are worse than other classes? ups!
 * Everyone running the same builds: Welcome to PvP. Be glad this arena has a meta shift every day rather than every month or more.
 * Warriors and Assassins disadvantaged: Every game mode has professions that are less effective than others and this is especially true when you change the skills each of those professions has available. There will be days when assassins and warriors have good bars and then you'll probably complain that everyone is using warriors and assassins. Mr J 14:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing good can come out of any form of discrimination. Maybe the profession thing isn't so bad because it automatically unlocks the available skills if you make a pvp char, but the rank discrimination is. Rank merely shows how much time you have, not your skill. Any tard could get ranks with bloodspike in the past. But I chose not to HA, mainly because my guild didn't and I didn't find it all that fun. Nowadays it simply seems too late to start. Everyone and their grandma has rank 3+ and people without rank simply aren't taken into groups without any questions asked. So everyone that bought this game less than 3 years ago or chose to not HA is fucked atm. And the same will happen to Codex, just wait 2 weeks and the first ones with "lf r1+ codex only" will appear. In fact it happens with gladiator right now. There should be an additional random version of codex, preferably in the spot where TA was. --[[Image:User Taki Fujiko Takisig2.png]] 15:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but you're wrong. As Auron said, for people who want to play and be a competitive force, rank filtering gives them that faster than selecting random people. If you don't like it, try forming your own group of low or 0 ranked players and then you can play. You'll also see what Auron's talking about when he tells you it will take a while to get a team of people that know what they're doing. Mr J 15:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, with regards to a random version, maybe they will if this arena doesnt end up barren in a few months. Mr J 15:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Rank does not equal skill. Not in the least. I agree with Taki.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  15:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Removing rank display isn't going to fix rank discrimination. People will use other ways of identification such as references, vent, QQ forums to generate a list of people who are of a certain rank and skill for inviting. Such a terrible suggestion is only going to compound problems, not fix them. Pika Fan 15:31, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, rank doesn't equal skill, but that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is that a Rank X player is more likely to know what they're doing than a Rank 0 player. You can't disagree with that; it's the reason why people do it. Mr J 15:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I do disagree with it. I have no title to display for HA, but I can safely say I know more about it than people who do have a PvP emote, and I am not alone in that regard. The only thing such a title does is encourage grind through degenerative builds.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  15:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you are one case and the reason I said "more likely" and not "always". You don't disprove the theory, you fit into it nicely. Mr J 16:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Now I really feel like a lab rat :P  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  16:18, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * People need to realize 2 things...1.) Reaching some rank level isn't impossible. And 2.) Rank doesn't mean that you are a great player. There are several people who aren't super high hero/glad/champ ranks, but are still good players who get in groups, play well and have no problems. I might also add that you can pay people to farm ranks in those titles for you and in the past many have sold r9++++ accounts on ebay or other such aution style services, making them equally useless to gauge ability. Anyway, rank does serve a purpose...it shows you are experienced. Think of it this way...when you apply for a job with a real estate management company...who is more likely to get hired? Person A.) who has a broker's lic., CCRM lic., State Realtor's lic. and/or the appropriate degee or back ground in that field or person B.) who has none of the required items showing knowledge, experience or background. I think person A will get the job because they are QUALIFIED. See, not everyone wants to guess or teach, and with a rank system, you don't waste time with people who don't know. You want to learn? Fantastic...guilds recruit for new players and trainees. Start there. Or play with your guild/friends.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh*  [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 20:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem, Yasmin, is that people do NOT realize that rank doesn't mean you're a great player. Why else would they only take r8 people into their team without any testing and then flame them when they suck, but they don't care because they find another team very fast, all because of their rank. I, too am an experienced PvP player and I have exactly 25 fame so far because I didn't HA in the past. Buying accounts off of eBay is illegal and stupid. Also, your example is absurd for real life, because if you transferred the situation to real life it would look like this: "There are 2 people, Person A's dream has been to have this Job X ever since he was a child, he has learned so much about it and did lots of related stuff (in this case=Arenas), is well informed and eager to learn. Person B wants the job just for the wage, he has no qualifications at all and is rather mediocre at anything that's required in this job. But he had a nice long talk with a shady dealer who sold him a certificate (in this case=playing bloodspike, iway, sway, etc on double fame weekends) and now he applies with it. Who would you take? I sure as hell would test out both instead of just relying on a stupid piece of paper (in this case=title) and Person A would get the job in the end. --[[Image:User Taki Fujiko Takisig2.png]] 21:39, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In real life, companies will interview and test you for a position because it's such a hassle to get in someone who isn't actually qualified and then have to fire them and hire someone else. But this is a video game and if we play a Codex match and you're an awful player, then I can kick you, find someone else, and be back in the match queue in like 5 minutes. Mr J 21:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you replace "in like 5 minutes" by "in maximum a few days", isn't that what happens IRL? After all, there a lots of people "lfj". --[[Image:User Taki Fujiko Takisig2.png]] 22:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No. A maximum of a few days is wishful thinking in finding a suitable job candidate with special accredidations or a relevant degree. Also, if you spend an hour saving yourself "a few days" effort, it's worth it. If I spend an hour saving myself 5 minutes effort, that's retarded. Mr J 22:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So, if you are an experienced pvp player, then you should have a friends list with like minded players to go with or guildies or people who you play with on a regular basis, and as such, you being experienced, I don't understand why you would be a victim of rank discrimination. The pvp community isn't that big these days, a lot of us know each other, or know a guy who knows a girl who can vouch and say "he's cool". I'm only R6...and no one cares, I play with awesome people, I have no issues getting into HA, SD and GvG teams because people know me, or know others that know me. Rank discrimination is a joke and an excuse.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 22:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because I'm a PvPer doesn't mean I have to be a great socializer too. I'm in a tiny guild with people that I wanna stick with because they're very nice, even though they aren't that good at the game. And no sorry, I don't know 7 other people that are online at the same time as me because I mostly chat with americans and I live in europe. The only way to HA for me is to PUG and people won't even give me a chance to show what I can do because of some stupid ass number beneath my name... you're right, rank discrimination is a laughable joke and an excuse for lazy (read "all") people to not give others a chance. Just go into any HA district and look at the chats there. --[[Image:User Taki Fujiko Takisig2.png]] 00:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Then what the fuck are you doing playing a game designed to be played with other people? King Neoterikos 04:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Codex Arena should have random join and not be team. Or that it at least should have the option to let us enter the mission without a full team and team up those who do that. --Emkyooess 23:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The 2nd option isn't viable because you would get steamlolled by organized teams all the time. I'm for making a RANDOM CODEX ARENA in the spot where team arenas previously were. --[[Image:User Taki Fujiko Takisig2.png]] 00:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not discrimination, it's just a way to avoid people who fail. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Shard, you have been PvPing for years now. You should know better than to trust a number that appears under someone's name by now. I just makes no sense at all, and what is even worse, it keeps people out of Codex Arena. It keeps people from enjoying the game. Let me explain:
 * - Some random guy who plays PvE most of the time, but on some occasions ventures into PvP, decides to take a look into CA.
 * - Random guy wants to join people who know what they are doing so they have a good chance to win.
 * - All people who know what they are doing have rank 3+ and will not take players below that rank, so random guy is forced to go with people without rank.
 * - Random guy and his team lose horribly because his opponents know what they are doing and his teammates do not. He leaves CA and goes back to AB out of pure frustration.
 * This shit happens. It should not happen. Everyone should be able to enjoy the new content, but apparently nobody at Anet has learned anything. This kind of shit is why the game sucks. (also, if anyone has enough wiki knowledge to make this a normal list, please do so! :P)  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  10:45, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If I had to choose between trusting a stranger with a high rank and another without a high rank, I will always choose the high rank any day. That being said, I would trust a rankless but skilled friend whom I know has a low rank, rather than a whoru with rank 15 or w/e. Rank only affects when you pug, so kindly stop being a lazy bum, build connections with friends so you can hold hands and flatten every mode of PvP. Only lazy, unmotivated and bad players(the worst combination of "qualities" imo) complain about rank discrimination. ~Pika P.S. I am only r4, g1, but I get invited to r10 and above teams on a regular basis.152.226.7.202 10:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm confused, KK. You start off by saying you can't trust rank, and then go on to say that all the people who know what they're doing happen to be rank 3+ and that the 0 rank team will probably have no idea what they're doing. If rank really means nothing, then rank 0 teams are just as likely to do well as the rank 3+ teams. Otherwise, rank must (at least coincidentally) mean something since the teams that do well more often are rank 3+. Just to be clear, I understand "rank 3+" was just an example, so I'm not using it literally here. Mr J 11:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This discussion is ridiculously long and well past "stupid." Yes, we all know there are r10s who are bad. Looking at percentages, much fewer r10s are bad than r0s. The r10 has run many more relics, has bodyblocked many more people, and has succeeded in holding halls on multiple occasions - the r0 has not. There may be no difference in skill between the two, but the vast difference in experience is why I prefer the r10s over the r0s. And yes, if you are r0 and are trying to compare yourself to a guy who has run a thousand more relics than you have, just stop. You don't compare, and that is why I'm taking the other guy.
 * That said, we all started unranked. Me too - ANet didn't say "here auron, we like you, so we're going to give you thousands of fame for free to make pugging easier!" I had to decide that tombs is what I wanted to do and set myself up to succeed. Pika fan has given you the secret already - it's called a friend's list. Even amongst r0s, you can find competent people. When you do, put them on your flist and invite them to groups. I knew a mexican guy who played infuse monk - we met when we both had roughly 20 fame. Neither of us could get into groups to save our asses, but I had seen him infuse and I knew he was really good at it - so when I started forming my own groups, I brought him along. When I found a strong warrior, I would put him on my flist and bring him along. Before you know it, you will have a full team of people that you handpicked that will outperform a pug, even though none of you are ranked. You take that team into HA and start kicking ass. You'll win the first few maps a hundred times, and you'll get stomped by the higher-ranked teams on harder maps like relic runs and koth, but you'll be learning and gaining fame along the way. All it takes is 60 clears of the first two maps and you have a bambi - 30 clears during double fame weekend. Once you get the deer, pugging is leagues easier.
 * Getting to r10 took roughly a year of consistent playing - of building up my friend's list, of performing to the best of my ability, and not giving up. It sounds cheesy, but that's what it takes. If you aren't willing to give it your all, quit bitching, honestly. Nobody gives a shit. If you don't want to put forth the effort PvP takes, don't expect to reap the rewards the rest of us have. But kindly try not to destroy our game to suit your lazy playstyle, either. Hiding title tracks would not help the game at all - and you probably have no idea why, and you won't until you stop being bad at the game and start doing what it takes to rank up. Even by the time you're r3 (which is nothing, in the huge scheme of things) you'll be hating that unranked bads who have never run a relic are getting into your group and slowing your progress down.
 * As a closer, Taki Fujiko, please don't comment on something when you haven't the first clue what you're talking about. This is one of those somethings. You have only seen one facet of the "problem" and have decided to fix it, without actually seeing all sides and comparing their weight, and thus are actually causing more damage than you're repairing. Play more. Get better. Once you have a more complete view of the puzzle, your attempts to fix the problem will be far more beneficial. - Auron 11:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for calling me stupid and lazy just because I only occasionally PvP instead of doing HA or CA 6 hours a day to grind rank. That convinced me to stay away from PvP completely.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  20:22, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Chiyo
Good job making factions PvE even easier. Nice joke anet, shows how much you guys cater to all the whining title grinders.  Koda   Kumi  15:27, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * help i cast flare as hard as i can why cant i solo urgos Impaled 15:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ummm no, dual charge hench is gone, so it's harder now --Qwertyasdf 11:01, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how 2 henchies with charge are better than a henchie with aggro control, good healing and good energy management  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  10:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * +1
 * I've always thought that Charge was a waste as an elite :P - J.P. [[Image:User J.P. Halloween sig.png| ]] Talk  12:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * With perma 33% speed boost you can skip half of PvE and if your heroes don't suck, then you still blow up every group anyway, then speed on to the next part. For similar reasons I try to fit 3 copies of Fall Back! on my or my partner's heroes when dualing with 6 heroes. Misery  12:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Skills that require other skills and codex arena
Yesterday there was Healer's Boon but the only healing prayers skills you could use it with was Spotless Mind and Vigorous Spirit, which gain zero benefit from it. Today there's three skills that require a minion, but no skills to create minions. This reduce the number of skills you can choose from.

Example: there's 18 ritualist skills that's only useable if you have a spirit, so why not make 1 spirit (pain?) always available or make sure the code that choose random skills always choose at least 1 random spirit? Just a suggestion. Cursed Angel  17:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and if there's no skills that cause conditions, then don't give people condition removal. And if there's no KD skills, don't pick aura of stability. And if there's no dual attacks, dont pick Impale. And if there's no traps, dont pick trapper's focus. Etc etc. There's loads of rules you could put in, but in every Sealed Deck I've ever seen doesn't put in anything beyond bare necesseties to play the game like allowing people to use as many land cards as you want in M:TG. Mr J 17:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Charm Animal, Desperate Strike and Fox Fangs is always available for a reason, 1 random minion, 1 random spirit and 1 random non-elite monk healing spell would be fair. Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 20:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There was also Mirror of Ice but NO water hexes... and Balt's-Pend but only 2 or 3 KD's to counter accross every other class. The arguments against this random silliness wasn't complicated code changes, it was using closer adaptations of "Texas Hold'em" sealed deck rather than the corny Yugioh Dodgeball Go-Fish clusterfuck presented here... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 21:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop complaining because you can't use every one of the skills it gives you every time it generates the skill list. It's Sealed Deck. That's how it works. Mr J 22:03, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop telling people to stop talking. Everyone should have a right to complain. But on-topic... Cursed Angel has a point. A huge number of ritualist skills depend on having a spirit, and if there are no spirits present in the list (or if they are terrible like Agony), rits are screwed. Mirror of Ice without water hexes can happen, but that is the only skill that depends on water hexes at all (owait) so that is less of an issue.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  20:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Orison and Pain would be nice freebies, but idk why you care if you can't use mirror of ice. Protip: If you can't use it, don't. Nobody else can either. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 20:53, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's random for god sake, there are equal chances of getting good combinations of skills as there are chances of getting bad ones. Nobody has highlighted today that there is SF + Fire Attunement + Glowing Gaze. It's random, and it's something fun about the arena (the fact one skill can be amazing on 1 day, but worthless on another). --Frosty  [[Image:User Frosty Frostcharge sig.jpg|19px]] 20:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The chance of Glimmer of Light being random 3 times is close to nothing. Look how many other monk elites we still haven't gotten after 3 days. I certainly hope glimmer isn't a freebie, because that would ruin monks and interrupters. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 20:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Complaining about shit nobody cares about wasn't my point, just making examples. Probably 80% of all skills need to fit in specific builds and need certain conditions that's nearly never available when you have 3-4 skills in an attribute. There's a differance between conditions that a profession needs and conditions a skill that will be gone next day needs. Orison/Pain/Minion would be a start. And yeah if glimmer is a freebie than gg anet zzz. Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] <font face="Arial" size="1">21:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Why Codex Arena is good in theory but fails in practise, part 2
.
 * Apart from the rediculous rank discrimination which has already begun, using a random set of skills is also distastrous. It should never have been implemented this way.
 * Random skills every day works when the skills are balanced for the format. Take M:TG for an example. Except for M10, every set that is currently standard legal is good enough to set up a sealed deck tournament with. Of course, some of the more uncommon cards are more powerful than others, but you need to be lucky enough to draw them, and you need to support them with other good cards. But there are enough good common cards to build a deck with.
 * Guild Wars' balance does not even hold a candle to M:TG. Every day a lot of the skills are unusable, some skills are blatantly overpowered and the rest is mediocre at best. Monk skillbars have been total donkey shit from the beginning so except day 2 (when rit healers could keep up with damage a bit) fights were short and anything but fun.
 * What they should have done is putting together a predetermined set of skills and change it every 3 weeks, maybe every month. You can keep overpowered skills out, make sure skills that depend on other things being present (like water hexes, in Mirror of Ice's case) can be used, and provide enough healing / protection to promote skillful and exciting gameplay. The devs could have made this shit BALANCED. But instead, we get this.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  21:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not discrimination. That's people wanting to win. Rank discrimination only affects people who have no rank, no friends list, and no guild (which consists of people who have owned the game for less than three hours).
 * Explain how, then I'll tell you why you're wrong.
 * You mean like every other arena? We already have those. Also, think about it: Anet has never been good at deciding what skills are good/bad, and they certainly don't have the first clue how to balance the bigger problems in the game. What makes you think this would be a good solution?
 * I agree with you on the middle part, though. Some skills are far more broken in this format when no counters are introduced for them (like VoR today). ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * <<Rank discrimination only affects people who have no rank, no friends list, and no guild>>
 * Or if you usually PvE but sometimes PvP (usually when the z-quests are too boring). My friend list contains 1 person who is experienced at PvP, so I am basically screwed.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  23:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * <<Explain how, then I'll tell you why you're wrong>>
 * Because the game is not nearly balanced enough for it? Of the 204 skills you can use each day, more than half are mediocre, around a quarter is useless, and the rest is awfully overpowered. I do not call that a good arena.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  23:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The point of Codex is to have bad skills. When the skills suck, you have to rely on player skill (you know, that thing every competitive game in the world focuses on). This, of course, only works when stuff like Kill someone for 10 seconds and Keep 4 people blinded permanently aren't in the pool. Yesterday was good, the most overpowered skill in the pool was "It's just a flesh wound.", and conditions aren't required to win. Skills and damage are. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As for rank discrimination and having nobody to play with, nobody started this game with titles. Every player (supposedly) had to build up from nothing. We were all pvp noobs at sometime. Get your guild into codex if it interests you, or make friends with other people who don't have rank yet. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've played for a bit more than 3 hours. But I have no rank, and no guild. And only 1 friend connection to anything competant. So I'm screwed as well.-- User Vanguard VanguardLogo.png anguard  00:01, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "you know, that thing every non-poker competitive game in the world focuses on"
 * As for rank discrimination and having nobody to play with, nobody started this game with titles. Every player (supposedly) had to build up from nothing. We were all pvp noobs at sometime. Get your guild into codex if it interests you, or make friends with other people who don't have rank yet. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've played for a bit more than 3 hours. But I have no rank, and no guild. And only 1 friend connection to anything competant. So I'm screwed as well.-- User Vanguard VanguardLogo.png anguard  00:01, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "you know, that thing every non-poker competitive game in the world focuses on"
 * (off topic) You lie. Playing poker competitively (Dan Negreanu, Johnny Chan, Phill Hellmuth, et al.) requires a)the ability to read your opponent well, b) the ability to deceive your opponent well. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 00:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Poker is more luck than skill, though both are involved. The best player in the world given a 2,7 offsuit usually can't win to save his life. Fixed anyway. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's true, that's why Johnny Chan is the ONLY person to have 2 consecutive WSOP bracelets. Yes, the game involves psychology, math skills, arrogance and knowledge of the game and your opponents--but luck is also a HUGE factor in getting the cards needed to win if those elements fail. I compare those elements listed above to the tactical side of the game.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 11:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The Codex should make some sense, no?
Since Linsey's page is blocked, I decided to post here:
 * Today, of the 5 Death Magic skills in the Codex, we have Order of Undeath elite and Feast for the Dead, but not a single minion animation skill, which makes these two skill absolutely worthless. I think there should be at least some kind of remedy for these kinds of situations, don't you? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ooh, ooh, add Dark Bond from Blood Magic to that list. That gives necromancers three skills for which they can't possibly have a use. A 15% worthless codex methinks.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:40, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Already wrote that here, which I assume they watch, while Gaile has nothing to do with this. <font color="Black">Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] <font face="Arial" size="1">19:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 20:09, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Sealed Deck. King Neoterikos 23:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Some classes and attributes rely much more on skill chaining and skill relationships than others. True sealed deck would make them automatically inferior, so a little bit of planning around that is required to even the grounds. Welcome to Guild Wars. Please, take further comments to the page linked by Cursed Anged. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  10:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Because you want to make SD less random, which totally defeats the entire purpose of SD. 219.74.2.139 12:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The purpose of this arena is to have fun with it. Currently the only thing you can do there is grind yet another meaningless title.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  12:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And what does that have to do with whatever we are discussing? You do know how to keep on topic right? 219.74.2.139 12:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ...Except that Anet already deconstructed your argument here by making a few self-heals & companion enablers permanent in every cycle. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 21:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ...Except that argument is invalid because it doesn't try to make every skill in the SD synergize with each other, which is the current suggestion. We may as well revert to TA if certain skills will always appear with each other if they do appear.Pika Fan 06:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Terrible Codex Arenas is terrible. Spam random sh**er skills until someone loses, rinse/repeat until you get your craptastic title, and face higher ranked players that find every way to abuse the skill limitations set forth by forming the deadliest hex/condition/spikey team build combinations possible on the daily. Random Arenas is the new "hot spot" now that it doesn't cross-connect over to TA after 10 wins anymore. RA >>> CA All day, any day! --Ulterion 05:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah cuz when u fail in RA noone gives u crap about it. -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 05:27, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to pvp. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to pvp. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)