Talk:Xinrae's Weapon

If say, 2 people are casting the same spell on a foe that this weapons spell is active on, but there is only say, a .5 second delay(or even 1 second) between the casts...will the person that casts it last be interrupted(so to speak) since the spell they were attempting to cast is now recharging? umph
 * No it won't, sucks too. I made a Ritualist anti-spike build I really thought would work based on this. I tested it against the obsidian flame spike eles at the Zaishen challenge, and the spike always went through.70.149.64.134 00:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Then what the hell is the use in this skill? :x Quazark Zeklar  [[Image:UserQuazark Zeklar lifebond.jpg|19px]] 17:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * disabled for an additional 5...13...15 seconds? Anti Oath 20:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They should reword it to "increases the recharge by x...y...z", disabled implies that it immediately blacks out and interrupts their cast, instead it just makes it recharge take longer after they make your head explode with the obsidian flame, or whatnot. Elder Angelus 4/25/2008
 * I guess this could help protect you from a Searing Flames team? - 144.226.230.37 15:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Want to know...
Who's idea was it to just throw on exhaustion all, willy nilly-like? This skill comes right after worthless, and it now is even worst. A+, thumbs up. Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 23:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Exhaustion is spam prevention. It's more flexible than hard coded long recharge.  Lightblade 23:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Exhaustion was created for eles who have 87 e, not rts with 40. There is no excuse for laziness. Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 23:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

this skill is way better than it was before, much more spammable :) learn to not exhaust yourself to a pulp &mdash; Skuld 00:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Do not lie to yourself Skuld ;), this skill still sucks. Just not as bad as it did. Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 00:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * read my post again. I said READ! &mdash; Skuld 00:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Meh it sucks again. No-one will ever bring this unless they want to waste their elite. Dancing Gnome 04:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I thought it was more useful with the exhaustion, but I don't honestly think exhaustion fits very well with Ritualists anyways...99.245.143.39 04:50, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Why is this skill so damn underpowered compared to Defiant Was Xinrae ?--WikiWu 22:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe because its a weapon spell which can be casted on someone who is spiked, and both these skills are anti spam skills which will prevent the spikers from using their skill again for up to 16 seconds + the skills normal recharge, defiant was xinrae is lame and needs you to be spiked as you can only use it on yourself. --Cursed Angel 23:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Parties of PvE-enemies
Do PvE-enemies have a party? -- ZorroZ 14:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. If I understand correctly, the mob they're linked to, if any. --SoraMitsukai 16:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If this is really like you said, Xinrae's Weapon could be a really powerful skill in PvE, because most of mobs are a group of the same type or with an similar skillbar. The only disadvantage is the extrem long recast. -- ZorroZ [[Image:Amber Chunk.png|15px|talk]] 21:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Once I get around to leveling my Rit, I'll test this and get back to you. --SoraMitsukai 18:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Slight buff
This skill never sees any use, which is just waving red flags to be buffed. The big concern on this is spamming it, correct? Well, there are a lot of ways to prevent ridiculously overpowered builds besides Exhaustion and long recharges. I have two ideas with how this spell could be changed to make it see some use, so I'm going to post them both.

First idea, this skill should only be 10 energy, if not 5. There is no reason for this not to disable spike spells on people who haven't finished casting them. None at all. This should stop the ObFlame spikers in Zaishen. The recharge should be 8. And this spell should disable all your other spells for 10 seconds. This is so that you don't get Rits with 0 communing and all Resto/Channeling. It forces them to use other skills in Communing. (Binding Rituals and Signets are in this attribute too, you know!)

Second. Leave this spells energy, cast and recharge alone. Make it effect the entire party. Shorten duration by a few seconds. Maybe ?

Comments/Suggestions? RitualDoll 00:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

How it works
I tested this the other day before I used it to roll SF spike in tombs. Here's how it works.
 * Let's say Bob uses Fireball on Tim. Tim has Xinrae's on him, and it says it blacks out for 10 seconds.
 * If fireball goes through, it hits Tim, then Bob's whole party loses Fireball for 10 seconds. Anyone who was also casting fireball gets auto-interrupted by the game.  Bob alone loses it for 10 seconds PLUS fireball's recharge.  The end result is Bob's fireball takes 17 seconds to recharge and everyone else on his party only loses it for 10 seconds. ~Shard (talk) 04:58, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Bob has got owned --91.94.233.177 18:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Update
Sweet mother of Christ. Makes weapon of remedy look like shit. Discuss. --Jette 00:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, you exchange the condition removal for more prot. Looks freakin' sweet. --Acidic Thought 00:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's precisely the problem. I'll bet anyone 50 Zkeys that this gets nerfed in a week... actually, nevermind, knowing the development team...  --Jette 00:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * When this skill will get nerfed then i hope that Nerf is done in PvP not PvE. Its Better than WoR Now.  ~Enar.   hello. 

This needs a nerf. I like a lot of the updates, but this one is stupid. 64.59.144.86 07:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why's That Stupid if it Heals and Reduces Damage. Imo its better than WoR since Foul Feast Does The Condition Remove.Then again Nerf PvP but keep PvE then. ~Enar.   hello.  07:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I would say it sucks compared to the non-Elite skills Reversal of Fortune and Reversal of Damage. Immunity against one attack is too specific to take an Elite skill for that.
 * This is in the Rit line though, might be nice for the HA N/Rt's. Rits lack prots anyway. Drag  nmn   talk cont  16:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I had no idea where to cap this from lol. Too bad this is like most other rit builds without a Spawning essential skill, seriously inferior to N/Rt. Spawning really needs to be reworked to be more useful to Rits. 122.104.165.13 12:23, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposal after the Update

 * I'm happy for this skill as it has opened up a new passage for restoration rits which involves protting. However, as good as this skill sounds on paper, it still does not live up to its hype. It is inferior to Reversal of Fortune and Reversal of Damage because these prevent ALL incoming damage (based on the maximum of course and depending how much you invested in the respected attribute). Here's a proposed change here (Feel free to comment)on making this the ideal spike counter for restoration rits. It also compares to the newly buffed Aura of Faith that protection monks received.
 * - "For 3 seconds, target ally cannot take more than 20%...7%...4% from a single attack or spell and gains + maximum health."--Lancy1214 18:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you're missing the point. This is now a spammable, unstrippable buff that not only virtually prevents damage (5% is negligable), but through lifesteal it both heals the receiver and punishes the attacker with unavoidable damage. It is now a hellaciously strong skill, does not need a buff, and your suggested change wouldn't be a buff anyway. Arshay Duskbrow 19:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly? I'm making it so that it's a spike counter with no life steal. Compare this skill to Reversal of Fortune. Case: You take 76 damage and you have 600 Health.
 * Reversal of Fortune: At 14 Protection Prayers, you would take no damage and the recipient is healed for 76.
 * Xinrae's Weapon: At 14 Restoration Magic, you would heal for 46 health(600 health*0.05=30. 76-30=46) and you would damage your attacker for 76.
 * Sure you can use Xinrae's Weapon offensively, but I don't think that's the point. Besides, weapon spells cannot stack and your most likely to cast "Weapon of Warding" once the duration ends to reduce the amount of physical pressure your target is taking.--Lancy1214 20:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * First, you're assuming full health when this is used. It would heal the entire lifesteal amount if that weren't the case. Second, this isn't meant to be spike protection. Neither is RoF, come to that. This is an anti-pressure skill, and thanks to the lifesteal damage, it also functions as a deterrent. Finally, you're trying to draw a parallel between two skills of different professions and different skill lines, one elite and one not. These skills do different things for different professions; it is not a "this or RoF" question. Arshay Duskbrow 21:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * All I wanted to do was to create a spike prevention method for restoration rits because after all, before the update, xinrae's was considered an "anti-spike move" (even though it blowed, it still did something). Besides, its based on 5% of maximum health, not current health so the comment of your full health thing doesn't make sense.--Lancy1214 23:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The damage protection is 5%. The amount of health you get from the lifesteal has nothing to do with that. If the lifesteal is 76, the attacked person is going to get 76 health, irrespective of how much damage that 5% actually was. Arshay Duskbrow 00:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a fine alternative to WoRem and should stay as is imo. Nikdanbro 08:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Making a better weapon of remedy was a stupid idea. It needs to be reverted, then balanced.  Stop reaching for complex solutions.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * this is not a better WoR, because WoR removes conditions. this is just for anti-pressure/anti-spike. and on another note, if i'm not mistaken, RoF does not prevent all damage, only the amount that it converts. Therefore this is actually better than RoF in some situations. ~ 68.91.91.53 18:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 5% of 600 is still 30 damage, which is not negliable at all. It 'heals' for a lot less than RoF can (80 (life stealing) -30 (5% of 600 health)=50 health for XW compared to 80 (prevention) + 80 (healing) + 30 (Divine Favor)=190 health for Reversal of Fortune). Wheter it can or cannot be removed is irrelevant when it ends after 1 use. That's of course a best case scenario, but add the fact that this is an elite, and the skill is a lot more balanced than it appears. It's mostly meant as a split skill, I think. 87.210.150.58 12:06, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Your numbers are off.

Xinrae's Weapon [ 80 (life stealing) - 30 (5% of 600 health) = 50 health gain ]

RoF [ 80 (healing) + 30 (divine favor) = 110 health gain]

The 80 "protection" is damage mitigation and not health gain. The main difference between these two (other than the fact that one is a weapon spell and the other is an enchantment) is that XW deals health loss to the enemy (which acts as a deterrent from trains(lulz)) and RoF has direct damage mitigation.

you guys are completely ignoring the fact that Xinrae's ALWAYS heals for 75 and ALWAYS does 75 damage, for example if I use reversal of fortune and an arrow does 20 damage I will only negate 40 health or negate 20 and deal 20 in the case of reversal of damage whereas with Xinrae's even if the damage does the full 5% of 600hp I will still get 45 health and do 75 damage, as damage decreases for example if someone wands you the numbers are even better for Xinraes, this skill is reversal of fortune plus reversal of damage in one skill with about the same average health gain/damage for each of this skills, on top of that there is no recharge penalty, beautiful skill to take on a rit runner, this should make caretakers charge obsolete over time, it has lower recharge more damage and more health gain. This is an anti pressure skill rather than an anti spike skill. Its also unstrippable which counts for something

and......its also life stealing which is much better than holy damage for obvious reasons. This skill may actually be overpowered... not that I'm not using it of course =D

You can be degened to death if you don't have a condition removal. WoR is much better when compared to this. prokiller88 01:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

couldn't you be degened to death with condition removal?


 * cough* Wielder's Remedy or MBaS *cough*


 * In all that great math you did, you forgot that xinrae's prevents damage just like rof. What if you took a 150 damage scythe crit power attack?  That's a 120 point prevention + 80 point life steal, which means for 5 energy, you just gained 170 health and did 80 damage.  Broken much?  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 20:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not too broken, just too spammable. First of all, it's elite. Second of all, that's its MAXIMUM effect. It's not so spectacular if you get hit for exactly 20% of your health. Oh, and scythe criticals do about 90 base damage.
 * Let's say you're an IW mesmer using Frenzy and Healsig and you get hit by a lightning orb that would normally deal 400 damage under those circumstances. Under Xinrae's, you take 30  (the other 370 is negated), you're healed for 80, and you deal 80 damage to the ele.  Under RoF, you take 320 (80 is negated), you're healed for 80, and you deal 0 damage to the ele.
 * In a different scenario, consider, you're a warrior with Defy Pain up and all that other crap. You get hit by an arrow for 0 damage.  You take 0 (0 is negated), you're healed for 80, and you deal 80.  With RoF, you take 0 (0 is negated), you're healed for 0, and you deal 0.
 * So at either extreme, Xinrae's is better. The middle point would be where you're taking exactly 5% of your max health; let's say 30.  With Xinrae's, you'd take 30 damage (0 is negated), you'd be healed for 80, and you'd deal 80.  Under RoF, you'd take 0 (30 would be negated) and you'd be healed for 30.  So, even without damage considered, RoF out-prots Xinrae's by all of 10 health, in the ideal situation.  With the damage considered, RoF falls short by 70.
 * Now, even if you're not a frenzy healsig mesmer or a Defy Pain wammo, Xinrae's has the capacity to negate infinite damage and will always restore more than that amount at a respectable spec. RoF... not so much.  Shatter Enchantment says hai2u.  D'you see why Xinrae's is a better skill?  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  12:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, RoF falls short by 10 in your example. At 5% of 600 hp, you have a net gain of 50 HP (take 30 damage, steal 80).  With RoF, you negate 30 damage, and get healed for 30 damage, for a net gain of hp of 30 (take 0 damage, get healed 30).  where RoF is better is at 80 damage.  You negate 80 damage and get healed for 80 damage, for a net gain of 80 HP.  For Xinrae's, you take 30 damage (because thats the max you can take), and steal 80 HP, for a net gain of 50HP.  At 110, and at 50 damage, they are both equal.  Between 110 and 50 damage, RoF is better for you target.  However, we must remember that Xinrae's doesn't just prevent damage and heal, but also DEALS damage.  You can stand in a elementalist's fire storm and spam it and watch them die as they try to kite (mwahaha).  Anyway, my main point for why xinrae's is good, is you are guaranteed that if you target is above 5% HP, that the next time they get hit will heal them for 50HP or more, and put some pressure on the person that is trying to kill them.  StatMan 16:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, my mistake. At 80, Xinrae's would prevent 50, heal for 80, and deal 80, while RoF would prevent 80 and heal for 80, for a 30-point benefit difference (also the relative maximum)...  And at 110, they'd both be healing 80 and negating 80 for a total of 160 units of benefit...  At 50, Xinrae's would heal 80 and negate 20, RoF would negate 50 and heal 50; either provides 100 units of benefit...  Okay.  I'm following your logic.  Thank you. =)
 * What I find interesting is that RoF has a benefit cap, while Xinrae's does not, even though Xinrae's has a lower healing cap than RoF until after it reaches its benefit cap.
 * Net Benefit: Xinrae's: b=-d+80 where d<30, b=d+20 where d>30; RoF: b=2d where d<80, b=160 where d>80
 * Redbar Gain: Xinrae's: g=-b+80 where d<30, g=50 where d>30; RoF: g=d where d<80, g=-d+160 where d>80
 * Forgive me for the math. =x [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine  - talk  19:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

thats a good point, this skill is also much better than reversal of fortune for very high values of damage, 5% maximum health is a ridiculously low amount and if you have any DP its basically negligible, this skill is much better than weapon of remedy, especially since most conditions are spammed and stacked on top of each other removing one every three seconds is much less valuable then having a prot, for example wounding strike would reapply its two conditions every 4-5 seconds so you'd never get rid of the deepwound anyway, this skil is also much better for keeping NPC's alive as well, it can easily keep a knight alive at your base even with two or three spikers just by spamming this and soothing memories. it results in more healing and damage than caretakers charge and energy really shouldn't be a problem for a flag runner.

Another point of why this is better than RoF. Energy cost. With Renewing Memories you can spam this even easier. If you have spawning at 13, the new cost of this spell is 3 (that 1% above 30% makes the difference). Tack on Protective was Kaolai, and you can satisfy the hold item requirement. Unfortunately, when you hold the item you can't get the +20% enchant mod bonus from a weapon. Anyway, with herald armor, that means your Rit has a base armor of 60+10+24 = 94. For a duration of 18 seconds, you can get about 5 casts. Lets also put on Vengeful Weapon, and then you can just alternate. Now add on Soothing Memories. Anyway, the reason this is elite is because it is a weapon spell, that reduces damage, and steals a large amount of life, all for a small amount of energy, and has a low recharge. Life stealing is a -very- valuable trait. Look at all the necro skills. Most only get up to about stealing 50 life, and aren't spamable, because of energy cost, and recharge. If anything we should compare it to vengeful weapon. StatMan 06:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

after skill change...
...is this still viable for sabway hero?
 * They don't seem to use it properly. I'm using Weapon of Remedy instead. Further observation might be needed though. -- Lud 14:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they use this fantastically. Somehow or other, Olias always seems to catch spikes. 92.239.41.229 12:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

How the hell is this related to Reversal of fortune LOL ??
Is it b/c they both cost 5 & cast 1/4 or what ?
 * It's because they both have the same effect on the target, a net heal for one damage packet, depending on the size of the packet. Xinrae's is better for tiny packets and huge packets. The additional life steal pressure is the bonus that makes it elite, they are actually essentially the same skill, but one scales to be better (when you include Divine Favour) over most damage ranges, but the elite is unstrippable (lol for one hit prot) and adds life stealing pressure. Misery 13:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Aaah you beat me to it. I was goign to generalise it down as saying that they're both trigger-on-attack heals --BeeD 13:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * elite is unstrippable (lol for one hit prot) Shatter enchantment waits for no man.  --  euphoracle  |  talk  02:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Um.. this is a weapon spell, not an enchantment, you cannot shatter it. R evelation talk 10:56, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * He was talking in reference to RoF b.r // talk  11:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, because nobodies going to purposely spend their enchantment removal skills to remove a 5e 2r enchantment that can be stripped by a wand attack. 66.41.46.226 03:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're about 6 months late. Drag  nmn   talk cont  08:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Question
Can you cast this on yourself or is it only on allies? Cause if you can cast it on yourself you could create a mean soloing 55 monk type build.--81.158.16.131 20:39, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes you can cast it on yourself. Just remember it only does ONE hit.  you'd still need enchants, but you can heal yourself quite well with it.  Though, why not bring Vengeful Was Khanhei instead, since you can't use xinrae's to reduce every attack, or even Vengeful Weapon, which has the same CD and cost, but steals just a little bit less HP.  StatMan 07:03, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could use both this and vengeful weapon for constant healing (pretty energy intensive, but funny to watch noobs attack themselves to death)Crimmastermind 07:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

and that is why i love being a rit in pve, you can get mobs to attack only one target and if you spam Vengefull and Xinrae along with some energy management, they fall like trees in Katrina
 * Or instead you can bring searing flames lol --  euphoracle  |  talk  22:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Healed the Caster
Have these spells always done this? Or was it a recent bug in the latest patch? 68.193.113.198
 * Yeah it was a bug that was fixed in an update not long after. Haru 01:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

So Seige turtles....
...Get owned by this, I mean, limiting their massive damage in a way they can't strip (like enchants) and providing a potentially huge lifesteal spike against them if you have this and vengeful weapon cast on multiple allies in the blast zone of the seige attack. I started taking a resto rit with this into FA kurzick and just haven't stopped winning. --Ckal Ktak 19:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I find myself getting my sorry behind kicked by the Luxons nearly every time, mostly because of the god turtles :x. I'll have to try this out.--99.230.145.201 02:35, 15 October 2009 (UTC)-
 * Yeah, this is my elite on my Healer rit when I go to FA. pers  onn5 [[Image:User_Personn5_sig.jpg|19px]] 02:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * it works with turts well however I find spirit light weapon more useful, there are 2 turts and also three npcs you have to protect, with spirit light weapon i can kind of cast and heal some other stuff while its up. still when some warrior is trying to pound on you casting this and vengeful and watching them die is pretty lol. prob a personal preference though. Roflmaomgz 23:39, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Life Steal Update
I noticed that the new update changed the functionality of Vengeful Weapon and Weapon of Remedy to trigger on life-stealing, shouldn't this skill have a similar change in functionality as well? 72.225.197.41 03:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking about that, one of the life steal skills it appears they missed with the update, or maybe it was purposely left out to let Weapon of Remedy see some more use *shrug* 75.72.71.17 06:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I also forgot Reversal of Damage wasn't updated in the same way. So it seems the two skills that cause damage of their own were not added in this way. 75.72.71.17 02:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Reversal of Life Steal lol. Previously Unsigned 02:34, 31 January 2010 (UTC)