User talk:Pling/Archive box/2008 Jul-Aug

=July=

Huh!
Another archived talk page! (First!) poke | talk 16:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah a lot of people archive on the first of the month. (Second!) -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 16:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Pfft, you guys. --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch 16:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Wave
Hello! The wiki 's you for all you do for us! -- People of Antioch 16:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OOOOOH! Do I get to spam you now??? --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wynthyst 17:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * :] poke | talk 17:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Aww, should have done the full 6 G's. --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch 17:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Too wide, I tried :| poke | talk 17:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ROFL! Brains, you have to Rickrol' Poke.  Remember he says he has never been Rickrol'ed?  --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch  17:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * -.- --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * -.-' -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 08:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Aww, should have done the full 6 G's. --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch 17:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Too wide, I tried :| poke | talk 17:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ROFL! Brains, you have to Rickrol' Poke.  Remember he says he has never been Rickrol'ed?  --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch  17:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * -.- --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * -.-' -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 08:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Re this; was fixing it but got distracted by uploading the thing, so I got to see an edit conflict in which nothing was different! (And I really meant to hit preview that time too *blush*) :D --Star Weaver 13:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hehe, no problem :) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

You were right...
...And I was wrong. Arena Net is really going to stand in front of an empty stand on PAX : ( Sorry for being such an ass about it on Regina's talk page. Erasculio 20:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was hoping I would be proven wrong... and no problem :P. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 12:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Stuff
You're loved :) George here btw. Why aren't you on MSN moar =[ 17:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You couldn't have done that more wronger. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You couldn't have said that more wronger :p Calor  [[Image:User_Calor_Sig.png|19px|Talk]] 16:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Your face is wrong :P poke | talk 16:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * -.- --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Also: your face is wronger. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Pics or it didn't happen, Poke. Calor  [[Image:User_Calor_Sig.png|19px|Talk]] 16:58, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Youll moan at me for not having done this right but i dont care :p. Are you back yet? coz i might b having a bbq saturday if u can come. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.6.40.58 (talk &bull; contribs) at 22:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC).

Icons
Again why is the vista icon not been deleted then? &mdash; Renuro Seru  Talk 19:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure about the "again" (and I also appreciate keeping discussions on the page it was first brought up), but it's likely it either hasn't been deleted by an admin yet, 3 days haven't passed since tagging, or it hasn't even been tagged; I don't know any details for that icon you mention. Nevertheless, whether or not the Vista icon is deleted yet, we can't allow that Apple icon. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:51, 4 July 2008

(UTC)
 * this one? &mdash; Renuro Seru [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 19:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

User Windows
 * It's not a a Windows icon, whereas the Apple icon is a clear violation. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Err...
Red link after my signature bugs me >.< can I upload something in its place or it would be some sort of w00t /permablock offense? :o --Super  Igor  20:59, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure you can, although make sure it's under GFDL or ArenaNet. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, thats great then thx :] --Super  Igor  21:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And remember GWW:SIGN :P poke | talk 21:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you mean....signing my comments? OH NOEZ!! :'[ /sarcasm --Super  Igor  21:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * For the image restrictions :P. poke | talk 21:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, the 24kb size thing right :P ? --Super  Igor  21:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's 50. Duh. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I meant to say px though, and its 19x19 x.x --Super  Igor  21:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should have put /sarcasm tags there :P --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * U have confused meh! D': ok no problem, thx for the halps and findiing a new picture to replace the red link on my signature it is then. x.x --Super  Igor  22:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * lol @history :P poke | talk 09:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

so
can i even use my talk paege or it keels teh rc nao??? :'[ *crys* --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 17:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Continuous spam/trolling/spam chains/leetspeak = use something else. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 17:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Talk pages aren't IM services. There are all sorts of those out there and the use of them will not annoy ANYONE. Spamming RC with it annoys just about everyone.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wynthyst 17:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Err, hide minor edits? --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 17:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * some editors always have their minor edit button on, so that would wipe the changes of said editors--Sum Mesmer Guy[[Image:User sum mesmer guy signiture.png‎|19px|Talk to me NOW!! DO IT!]] contribs 17:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya and wuts the point about talk pages nao then? :P --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 17:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * To discuss about venues on how to improve the wiki, or for casual conversation, not spam pyramids. Igor, you explicitly state on your talk page that you want spam, and you are aware that is bad. 99.235.230.36 14:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
For the undo. Noticed and was about to do it, but you beat me to it :P Gogey 23:37, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem, and thanks to you for adding the pve version template on Chilling Victory. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See? Gogey is a good guy. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 23:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Block log
Please either provide a clear reason in the log, or a clue where the reason can be found, so one doesn't have to trawl the wiki to find it. Backsword 02:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there a particular block you're referring to? [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 09:35, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Luxon Kurzick Allegience - See Also
Do you think we could leave the slang terms off the "see also" section? It's not really relevent to the article, most players don't use the words either, although most people who spend much time in alliance battles know what it is supposed to be. Someone who is reading up on Luxons or Kurzicks doesn't need to be directed to language a minority of people use is my thinking. I know this is a stupid issue but I'm just trying to keep it on it's own page away from real wiki content because some people want it to be here as a form of validity. 122.104.167.139 18:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The terms are real wiki content. If someone reads up on the factions, it's their choice whether they click the related link or not -- it's simply our role to supply that choice by leaving a link there. However, if there are more people who think the same as you do, I won't stand in the way. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 18:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * None of the other player terms are linked to from articles. They are stand alone inclusions of the glossary. Nuker isn't on the elementalist page, Battle Lion isn't on the gvg page etc. Traditionally the current practice is to leave glossary terms off of real game content articles. 122.104.167.139 18:47, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, go ahead and remove them. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Signature pic
How do you put the picture in front of your name when posting things? Lorik Hawkeye 22:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)Lorik Hawkeye
 * See GWW:SIGN and Help:Signatures. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 22:40, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I went there but i still dont get it can u just tell me what code u use to change the color?Lorik Hawkeye 22:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the colour of your text? The code would be, for example,  which would achieve  Lorik Hawkeye . A hex code chart like this would be helpful to find a colour.--[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|16px|]] Brains12 \ talk 00:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * TY Lorik Hawkeye 04:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey Brains, about Elysium Haven of the Crymson Guard
I left GW for about 3 months, and I came back recently, was updating my user page, then went to update my Alliance page. I see that you deleted it due to pure vandalism? Is it possible to have it restored in any way shape or form in it's original intact version? Or for me to get to it's archive location and clean it up at all?

Thanks in advance, since I would like to reopen my recruitment to Elysium! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Elenia (talk).
 * Hi, the page Guild:Elysium Haven Of The Crymson Guard was moved to Guild:Elysium Haven as that apparently is its correct in-game name. The former page was then recreated with vandalism, which is why I deleted it as such, but the latter page still exists. Guild pages should be named exactly as they are in-game, so you should edit the Guild:Elysium Haven page. If that's not the correct in-game name, you can move the page to the correct location my clicking the "move" tab at the top of the page -- make sure you use the correct capitalisation too. If that's all too confusing, just tell me what the correct name is and I'll sort it out :). Guild Wars Wiki:Guild pages may be helpful too. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Ahh thankies! That is indeed the corrected version, as they had moved it accordingly. The guild name is Elysium Haven, the alliance name is Elysium Haven of the Crymson Guard. Thank you ever so much for restoring it! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elenia (talk &bull; contribs) at 16:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC).
 * I didn't restore it, the Elysium Haven page was still up :) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|17px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

hi
hey plingggggg. - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 21:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Helloooooo Plingggggg! --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch 00:25, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * hi Plingggggg! poke | talk 08:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Greetings, superior lifeform. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  08:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Shoo. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

say, you're brit, right? - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 14:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. What's up? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * do you say "coke" or "cola"? - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 16:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Coke. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * lol @ english book. - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 16:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * the school book. it says ppl say "cola" in britain. - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 17:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's bullshit, most of us say coke. 82.34.128.95 17:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * it did sound kinda weird to me, too. - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 18:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I also prefer saying "coke" rather than "cola" when speaking english, for the reason that you can spell it faster (that's such a long O in cooola) :P &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 18:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * don't make the o too short or you'll get to a word you'd rather not "drink". - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 18:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

User talk:24.115.7.193
Can you take a look at this Brains? I'm a bit confused as to whats happened with their guild page.....>.< --  Wandering   Traveler  17:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 18:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for dragging you...
...Into an annoying situation : ( Erasculio 12:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, I sort of dragged myself into it. :P --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:16, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Comment Removal
*scratches head* Idk how I did that, I just meant to strike out part of my old comment... -- Shadowphoenix  18:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird... --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 18:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

1RR
Noone agreed with you. I care not for what spirits tell you. Backsword 15:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What? You reverted twice: first, second. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't wikilawyer. The pages may have ended up essentially the same, but they are part of different projects. 1RR don't apply indefenitly, but until the next consensus state. The first edit is implementing a new parameter for the infobox, the second a miniproject of mine to make all the tonic related pages consistant.


 * If you have an issue with the article, you can edit it as much as you like, but I guess your issue is with something else. Backsword 16:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * He's not wikilawyering. You reverted a revert. --JonTheMon 16:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I see no implementation of a new parameter in either of those links. As to your miniproject, that still doesn't make re-reverting excusable. If you wanted the page to go back to a state you preferred, you bring it up on the talk page or notify the other involved user. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Backsword, you clearly performed two edits that both reverted the addition of the same content on Boreal Tonic. Please don't make this a bigger issue than it is. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 17:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Aiiane,I think you miss what Brains is about.It's not me wanting to make an issue out of this. However, I'll revert that page, thus removing the excuse.Backsword 17:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Poke already reverted it, with a reference to the ursan rant(!?) on the talk page. So there were weven less of an excuse. Backsword 17:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * By "first section", he meant the one without a header, where the third line is an entry by brains pointing to the source which explains exactly why the image should be on the page. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 17:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Backsword, if anyone actually is making this personal or about a subject other than the actual reversion, it's not me. I don't appreciate people accusing me of having a 'hidden agenda'. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 17:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Brains has an agenda? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * He's training an army of lemmings to control the world ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 11:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there a place to sign up for eternal service, or are we all going to die? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

turtle
BE tortoise or also turtle by now? - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 17:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh... what? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 17:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * is it still tortoise in british english or do ppl say turtle like in AE? - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 20:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * From Wikipedia, "British English normally describes these reptiles as turtles if they live in the sea; [...] or tortoises if they live on land." --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * uhu. - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 20:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Cinematics formatting
Guild Wars Wiki:Formatting/Cinematics, do whatever you need to to bring it up to standard! ''' <font color="#B8860B">Sounds <font color="#B8860B">Risky  | 20:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, it just needs to undergo the guideline proposal process and whatnot. I'll try to take care of that, but the formatting guide itself is fine as it is. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:05, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Should we add a link to Cinematic on the main page next to missions? &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 03:28, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Brains doesn't like you
rofl - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 09:44, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Pwned? &mdash;  ク  Eloc  <font color="Black">貢  14:43, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm so jacking that. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  10:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

BLİNKİNG STARS!!
I can has that in mai signathur nao? -- NUKLEAR   IIV  02:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah another crap edit from me but check ur emails as soon as possible and get back to me asap its bout carl Ethan.

I think carl is a pretty cool guy. eh goes back to teh filopenes and doesnt afraid of anything. ~ it's me, George btw.

Copyvio Question
Thought I'd make sure there wasn't a blank talk page for people who like to post first or the like on a blank talk page. Anyway on to my reason for pinging you, I was wondering what should be done about this image in regards to the copyvio tag that was placed on it. Usually screenshots that include windows interface are deleted for copyvio but this particular image had a new version uploaded before that could happen so should the first revision be deleted or is it fine to leave it. On another note that I had only just thought of, the screenshot also includes this image which was deleted as copyvio anyway so should the image be deleted because of this? Not too sure if you are the best person to ask but other people will have your talk page on their watchlists so I figure I'd get an answer anyway. -- Kakarot  22:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm not the best person for this... If I had to take an educated guess (in other words close my eyes and point randomly), I would say it's a copyvio because it contains the image of Sauron. If that's the case, the matter of the older revision is moot as it'll be deleted anyway. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol at the educated guess, but anyway since I was already leaving the first part of my message I thought I'd ask anyway. I actually only realized about the included Sauron copyvio while typing the above message out so I'll probably just tag it as a copyvio using the same url as the other one. -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 22:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a copyvio since it contains a copyrighted image - so it should be deleted. The older version would also have to be deleted even if the current revision is GFDL. - since it's possible to revert back to that image. Hope this helps. -- [[Image:User indochine dsk tree.png|15px]] Indochine  talk 11:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Take a break...
Play some Audio Surf. I played Access the Animus, from the Assassin's Creed soundtrack, and I found it quite enjoyable. If you have Steam (which is free), you can download a demo of it which lets you run a few songs before saying you have to buy the game. -- People of Antioch 23:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * are you trying to take brains away from us? Are you promoting the use of steam? HAVE YOU NO SHAME? ('tis a good game, though). -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  23:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * auto surf is classy, i love playing The Decisive Battle from FF6. - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 11:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you ever want some real fun with Audiosurf, find a copy of Ghost Love Score by Nightwish and play through that. :P [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 15:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * On a broader spectrum, pretty much anything by Nightwish is really good on Audio Surf..... --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  22:30, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

=August=

AWB question
Hi Brains. I have a quick question for you. As you may know, the Weapons infobox template was recently changed to include a "unique" parameter, leaving many pages saying Unique twice (i.e. "Unique Unique Bow" or "Unique Unique Staff") in the box where the "type" parameter goes. I was deeply annoyed by the mistake, and thought I'd fix it with AWB. I fixed about 10 pages when I realized... am I allowed to be doing this? Obviously, there are over 1000 unique items, and if I made the same edit over and over again on potentially the majority of 1000 different pages without asking first, well, that could be a serious affront to my not-banned-ness. So I'm running this by you, as I probably should have before I even thought of doing those last 10 edits. Is it alright if I do this fix now that I've told someone about it, or would you prefer that someone else (that is, a sysop) do it? I anticipate your response, and hope it doesn't come with a nice /ban for making semi-automated edits without permission. :P --  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 04:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Something odd has been happening with that. I'll take for example Voriths edit to Elswyth's Recurve Bow. Removing the "Unique" paramater removed it from the category Unique Bows", but it still lies in the category Unique Recurve Bows. I recently readded a few to the unique spears area, but didnt realize this. Probably will have to find a solution around that. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  04:19, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I would suggest a request be put in on the Bot page to have it done by the authorized bot (wikichu).--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What about the existing categories? removing one or the other would remove the corresponding category. I'm really not sure thats in best interest. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  04:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm... that's interesting... perhaps an edit to the weapon infobox template is needed? I'll take a look at the code and report back with what I find. --[[Image:User Vorith Shadow Ursan.jpg|18px]]  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 07:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, found the problem... whoever added the functionality of the "unique" parameter (not pointing any fingers :P) fscked up and forgot to change the block of wikicode that adds the category tags to still operate if "[[Unique]]" isn't included in the "type" parameter. If I don't fall asleep before I can hit the Save page button I'll get it fixed tonight and we can go on with our scheme to un-mess-up our wiki. lol --[[Image:User Vorith Shadow Ursan.jpg|18px]]  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 07:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * /triplepost... well for the time being I'm stumped. When I saw the code that I saw, I mistook it for the screwup causing all this, but it seems the remnant piece of code from back when there was no "unique" parameter shouldn't be making any difference at all. There's a second block of code later that adds the category tag for pages which don't have [[Unique]] in the "type" parameter but are still unique. My guess is that the first block was left in as backwards compatibility until all of the pages could be updated to not use [[Unique]] in the "type" parameter. The fact that the code checks for the value of "unique" being NOT "no" rather than "yes" supports this hypothesis... it's just that in the follow-up, the redundant [[Unique]] was never removed from the pages' "type"s. As for why the category tag isn't being added, I don't know yet, because the second block of code should as far as I can see be handling it fine. While we're at it fixing the template, we might want to add a block which combines bow type and uniqueness to add the Category:Unique recurve bows-type categories. That last comment was really just so I don't forget, I don't expect anyone else to do it. :P By the way, Brains, thank you for your hospitality as we (I) spam technical jargon all over your talk page. Much appreciated. >_< --[[Image:User Vorith Shadow Ursan.jpg|18px]]  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 08:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * /quadruplepost. lmfao. Alright guys, I've gotta get some sleep. I'll put in the bot request and fix up that naughty template in the morning when my brain isn't in phail mode. Brains, since you provided the venue for this little coding pow-pow here you're welcome to give any input you'd like. (orite, you're a sysop, you can give any input you like anytime. :D) --[[Image:User Vorith Shadow Ursan.jpg|18px]]  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 08:55, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I am trying to understand this but I only woke up 10 mins ago... need coffee!... -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 08:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Ehh. About using AWB -- there are better and faster ways for automated edits. Wikichu would be able to do that in a flash, but if you really wanted to do it, I'm sure Poke wouldn't mind. However, just in case, you should probably do as Wyn said and put something down at Guild Wars Wiki:Projects/Editing bots.

As for all that code stuff... well, it's a case of tl;dr and I doubt I would comprehend it all at the moment, anyway :). I'm sure someone else who can will be popping in soon enough.

Also, "orite, you're a sysop, you can give any input you like anytime." -- as can everyone else :) -- Brains12 \ talk 13:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and for the rest you should probably bring this up on the weapon formatting talk page. poke | talk 14:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Couldn't this entire section get moved to the weapon formatting page, or the template's talk? Also, can you make wikichu able to decide whether a page has a doubled "unique" tag on its page or not? I stupidly removed the redundant word from several spear and shield pages already. :/ &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 14:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure and sure. Everything that you can formulate as "if there is X then do Y" or even complicater can be done by Wikichu ;) poke | talk 17:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Then make it make me a peanut butter sandwich Poke - "if there is X then do Y" (X=peanut butter Y=make sandwich) =P -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 17:06, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah what I did was made a list of all the unique weapon pages, then told AWB to look for "| type = [[Unique]]" and replace it with "| type =". It skipped about 40% of the pages that I went through, so it's obvious that many people have been noticing this and changing it. It would be easy to get a bot to do it on all the remaining pages. As for problem 2, the template itself, I made a few edits to the weapon infobox template last night, but it didn't completely solve the problem so I saved what I had done in Notepad, reverted, and am still working on finding a solution to the category problem. When I figure out what I missed, I'll reapply my changes. --[[Image:User Vorith Shadow Ursan.jpg|18px]]  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 21:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Admin opinion needed
I'd like an admin opinion on the discussion taking place here. Thanks.--Pyron Sy 13:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You guys seem to have already sorted it :) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 14:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

helps
Is there anything we can do about Fox Cub stealing Eloc's userpage? &mdash; Seru    Talk 21:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, and why should we want to? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Idk Nice to at least give people credit for stuff like userpages. How would you like it if i copied you userpage without you asking? &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 21:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if he wants to have a userpage that 1/2 of the community can't read, that's his prerogative. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 22:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just ask the man to give credit somewhere for using ELoc's design. Apart from that though, all userpages can be used as templates for other peoples. Its only good wiki manners that dictates the giving of some credit nothing more. -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 22:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wouldn't mind if people copied my userpage left, right and centre. Some people have. As Salome says, just ask him to give credit. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * mmk will do &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 22:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just curious but would it be Eloc that gets the credit just because it's his page or Nian who actually designed it for the design contest? -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 00:41, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Quick Thank You
As it says, just a quick, sincere "Thanks" for reinstating my guild's page (I had posted the request on the Admin Noticeboard, and saw your response there.) I thought it would be rude not to say "Thanks," and equally rude to violate the "No discussion" policy for the Noticeboard, so here I am instead.

I appreciate it.

My old login/user space is Caoimhe, but I seem to have lost my login details and have not been able to retrieve 'em, so this'll have to do. Thanks, Brains. :)
 * You're welcome, glad to help. Enjoy editing. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Input
Give me your thoughts here &mdash; Seru    Talk 21:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've responded. (By the way, you can use GWW:RFC for this sort of thing :) ) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * o.O lol thx didn't know about that. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 21:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could i get you're signature of support to change the policy here. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 21:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

User Sig
You first brought to my attention that my user sig was wrong. Could you please check that it is ok now? Druid 06:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's fine. And welcome back --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 12:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

What is this?
I'm 99.9% sure this does not belong in the mainspace. It doesnt really sound like a guild page either, but yet I don't want to tag it for deletion for fear it actually may be something. Any ideas? o.O --  Wandering   Traveler  05:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's for Guild:Guild Of Sync. Backsword 05:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thought so. I can't tell what anything is at midnight >_< --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  05:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Guild:Order Of The Flameseekers
Why was this page removed because of vandalism. What was vandalism about it then?-- Sander 14:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean; the page Guild:Order Of The Flameseekers is still intact. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 14:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guild:Order Of The Flameseekers is intact. Guild:Order of the Flameseekers (note the lowercase) was deleted because the content was, and I quote: "adrgdafhg". - Tanetris 14:16, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

hehe
I should make them a i've been blocked x times box :) &mdash; Seru    Talk 20:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

2 articles, Same boss?
Hey Brains, may I point out these 2 articles; Whiskar Featherstorm, and Ice Drake, they seem to be the same boss under different names. I'm not sure what action to take and which is the real name of the boss. That's why I'm asking for the assistance of an administrator (Tell me if you're not the right person to ask for future reference ^^). --<font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">age <font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">ontu 20:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird... if it appears under either name, a note pointing to the other article might be useful (perhaps listing it as an anomaly). Asking one of the devs to clarify the situation might help too. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to Talk:Ice Drake the boss is called Ice Drake, and not Whiskar Featherstorm. 68.0.45.15 confirmed it yesterday. I'm thinking it may be called Ice Drake in Borlis Pass, and Whiskar Featherstorm in Griffon's Mouth. So it is the same creature, just 2 different names and 2 different locations. Not sure though. Someone may want to go through the mission + Griffon's Mouth real quick and check it, to be sure. I'd do it but unfortunately I can't :\ --  Mini Me ''' [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 21:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

meh, no!
It does not! :P (to others: nvm) poke | talk 21:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:User Brains12 heart arrow island icon.png]] --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:35, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Lock On Ursan Talk Page
Yo Brains, deleting new ideas for changes is a bit extreme. There's many many archives there of ideas along those lines so, to reduce community frustration, why don't you delete an archive every time you have to add a new one. People have to understand others' points of view on something that controversial and forums are generally inactive or more restrictive than this. Ultimately you can do what you like, I don't mind, but just take this into consideration so you don't find yourself having to delete too many comments/users. Spawnlegacy 09:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For suggestions, use the ArenaNet:Portal, not the skill's talk pages. poke | talk 11:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh I know that. The thing is its a topic of constant discussion and restricting that discussion, especially while players discover the update, will just mean overflow into other areas. Obviously I don't know how many Ursan supporters intend to vandalise, if any, but at least give them an area to do so and the same opportunity the rest of us got to vent pre-nerf. The current discussion is more important to the community than the discussion seven months ago, I thought you could make an archiving exception since its clogging up so much space already. Not much knowledge of wiki policies and who enforces them but who's gonna punish the sysop? No more from me, seeya the next time I break NPA. Spawnlegacy 16:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The ursan article's talk page is for the article itself. Any other feedback for that specific skill goes to the place which was designed for such -- the ArenaNet namespace. Better yet, go to Guru or GWO -- you'll find they're better suited. The article's talk page is not for venting. There's not a problem with archiving -- space isn't hard to come by. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe add a note to the Ursan Blessing articte specifying that one half of Ursan Strike damage is armor ignoring? Just suggestion. De1m0s 16:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That information is already on the Ursan Strike article :). --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I won't duplicate already existing information. De1m0s 23:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

refurbishments
So, one person says something, and only, ONLY, ONLY Izzy gets to respond to the topic, even if the responses are in the same fashion as the topic starter? You realize this will probably piss ALOT of people off, because it's very dumb? --  Mini Me '''  20:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * [puts hand up for being pissed off and confused] 000.00.00.00 21:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good, when people are pissed off, then they won't post there. Problem solved. poke | talk 21:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem -- so many posts that Izzy himself cannot respond; comments and subjects which do not belong on that page; using talk pages as forums, when the wiki doesn't work as a forum, nor is it a forum; spam, personal attacks, flaming. This should answer your comment on Poke's page too. We have places for feedback -- it's called the ArenaNet namespace, not a user talk page. Understand the situation before you declare the wiki Communist. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ok you're a cool guy and this is just a modest proposal that makes sense in every sense of the word to me.

First, there was an update. Now, you very well know a lot of people want to thank Izzy personally, (which is why I think this change was awful timing on your dude's part...) but your system completely prohibits it basically. No, no one wants to do it on the ArenaNet talk portal or whatever it was you suggested, they want to make sure IZZY sees it 100% sure since he is the lead skill balancer. They want to say it directly to the guy. They want to make it a personal THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS. The only other alternatives is....waiting for him in-game and then telling him which is just bothering him while he is working on stuff in-game. People have already done this to Linsey (posting on her talk page I mean) for that part of the update, and people want to do it to Izzy for his section too. If you did some AWESOME CHANGE to wiki or something, I wouldn't want to go to the Sysop page or something (example), I'd want to go to you.

Second, strictness is good, but over strictness can be pretty bad. I honestly don't think hearing a lot of compliments is going to upset Izzy or anything. Your new system while pushing away all the people who consider it an EPIC FORUM TALK PAGE (and made it one) (which is good btw, Wiki discussion page used to be good with Ensign and Farin til the wiki folk ruined it...), also pushes away genuine GOOD things, which is BAD.

Third, I think it should be changed! A thread about compliments is good. I can't think of 1 good reason why that shouldn't be allowed? Why not just make it easier and let people post in threads like that (but not the rest of them). If someone throws a GvG issue or something up, sure, remove posts if people reply. If someone flames him or calls him shit, sure remove posts. But if people are complimenting him on a job well done, what's the bloody harm? I agree with the change, but I disagree with its implementation if it is going to prevent people from telling Izzy good things as well as bad like that. Maybe allow 1 compliment thread (should probably be made by you or something...) after each update, and then keep this the way it is now for every other thread?

Fourth, should enact the same change on the Skill feedback section. Too many dumb comments that derail stuff there too, and unlike his talk page, there's no real reason why people should reply to someones skill topic. DarkNecrid 21:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, okay. Sorry.
 * Uhmmm, but while we're on this subject. You were talking about spam. I know that you are a firm enemy, for lack of a better word, of talk page spam. So, may I ask why you are allowing this spam to continue? It's on alot of the more popular talk pages, such as Poke's, and very annoying if it gets pinged on watchlists all the time - on top of that, people are using it in a disruptive manner, such as here.
 * Now, I know actual sysops and well known users are doing this, but that isn't a reason to let it continue. It's very annoying, and atm I find it more annoying than the previous talk page spam on PvXwiki. --  Mini Me ''' [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 21:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I use instead :) &mdash;  Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 21:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I don't see a problem with that kind of chat as long as it is not disturbing the user as it is on Izzy's page. Also Seru, your leaf is stupid o.O poke | talk 21:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever. I should've known it wouldn't even be discussed seeing how most of the sysops are participating in it. --  Mini Me ''' [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 21:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all you talk about wanting to post compliments where you are 100% sure Izzy will see them, well, the ArenaNet namespace was designed completely for communication with ArenaNet. Secondly, you talk about "threads", the wiki doesn't have threads, we have sections. Threads are for forums, and the wiki is NOT a forum, though too many people treat it like one. Thirdly, this is a temporary change. If you absolutely HAVE to post on Izzy's page because there is no where else that will satisfy your needs, just wait it out and post when the protection is lifted. I'm sure your thanks and compliments will be just as pleasant for Izzy to see in a few days as they will be today. Patience is a virtue. As for the spam, I am a prime culprit, and if it annoys you I apologize. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 21:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I use forum lingo cause I post on forums, sue me. ;) Also, it sure doesn't SOUND temporary. Also, it doesn't matter if it is designed for communication with ArenaNet, people want to inherently deliver GOOD STUFF to the person who delivered it to them. All of ArenaNet does not have everything to do with skill balances, izzy mostly does. If some guy in a company gives you a ton of cool shit, you don't write a thank you letter to the company, you write one to the guy who gave you the stuff. etc. DarkNecrid 21:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Uhm, well, I was planning on posting here, but DarkNecrid pretty much summed up my thoughts. --  Mini Me ''' [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 21:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe the notice on Izzy's page says "This talk page has been semi-protected for three days... " How is it that this doesn't sound temporary?--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 21:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Mini Me...since when have sysops talking about there wrong doings in the first place? Back on topic. You didn't need to lock down a userpage. How would you feel if we locked down your page to excessive spam? Talk to users before you do your actions or its seen as really childish. <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator  <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  21:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * (5 edit conflicts later...) I think one of the main problems is how users are using Isaiah's talk page more to discuss between themselves than to try to talk to Isaiah. So a coment saying "Nice work!" is IMO fine; a reply to that saying "Great update!" is also fine; someone saying "I don't agree, I think that update was bad because it killed the black bears" and then people going on a long discussion about the pros and cons of nerfing black bears, well, is IMO not fine. The problem is that the distinction above is hard to make, be it by sysops or by common users. The most logical aproach, IMO, is to simply be as strict as Brains is right now, at least until we learn if Isaiah (who said he didn't like the old system) aproves it or not. Erasculio 21:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If I were unable to post on my page due to everyone and their brothers, sister, cousins, friends, dogs and neighbors posting on my page, I would hope that someone would have the good sense to lock it down. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 21:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't.. Spawnlegacy 09:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "I believe the notice on Izzy's page says "This talk page has been semi-protected for three days... " How is it that this doesn't sound temporary?--Wyn's Talk page Wyn 21:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC) " It is semi protected from anonymous users for 3 days. Do I look like an anonymous user?? DarkNecrid 21:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've written this reply without reading everything in the edit conflict I just received -- bear with me to read and reply to those too if needed. This was intended to reply to DarkNecrid and MiniMe's comments around 21:23 (UTC).
 * One comment to congratulate Izzy is fine. That's why I argued against removing that section when the first comment was made -- it's talking to the user, it's not a subject already brought up, and it didn't contain rubbish. It doesn't need 20 other users saying the same thing, because then it actually hinders Izzy from using it himself -- he has said he finds it hard to discuss on his talk page because the wiki software isn't adept enough to do so when so many comments are on the page, unlike on a forum (which a wiki is not). We're trying to prevent his talk page becoming any harder for him to edit. This is also my response to your second and third paragraphs, DarkNecrid -- it's not just the content of the response, it's the nature and amount too.
 * As to enacting the same change to the ArenaNet section: it doesn't need to undergo the same process, because those pages are being used for what they were designed for -- skill feedback. Yes, personal attacks and trolling should be removed -- if they're found, it's likely they will be. However, those pages do not hinder its user from being contacted (because there is no user, whereas a user talk page is to contact its user); it doesn't hinder suggestions being given to improve its article, because the 'article' is the skill feedback. In other words, the skill feedback talk pages are serving their purpose. Izzy's user talk page and the Ursan talk page, however, are not, which is why they're being 'refurbished'.
 * As Auron said on the community portal talk page, the wiki allows off-topic discussion as long as it doesn't hinder the main purpose of that talk page. Be off topic on my talk page if you want, because I can still read and respond to your messages. However, if it goes so far as to receive what Izzy or Talk:Ursan Blessing achieved (therefore hindering others to contact me, or hindering me to reply to others), then I'd have to draw the line. There's an extent to which off-topicness and discuss-anythingness is appropriate, and the two mentioned talk pages have passed it.
 * Now to wub spam. Yes, I don't like spam. Why don't I stop the spam? Because each time it's been used, it's stopped by request of the user or by acknowledgement that it's doing harm or being annoying -- it doesn't need my stepping in. If you find it annoying before it stops, speak out. For example, Wyn allows a certain amount of wub spam on her talk page; when she wants it to stop, it does. However, this is unrelated to the subject of Talk:Ursan Blessing and Izzy's talk -- the reasons behind both are different, and the problems of both are different. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't see the big deal! Unless if you mean 1 comment per person, because otherwise you're just going to have people race to be the one guy who gets to publically thank Izzy for his hard work and that's it and that seems kind of silly. If you guys make the topic and keep archives by balance, and keep the Compliment thread at the top, it won't affect him at all since he can easily just jump down to the next topic, no? Being able to say thank you to the person who did something you really enjoy is not only (generally) a morale boost for the person reading it, but you know it makes the person complimenting the guy feel good too because they are probably making the other person happy too because we all like hearing good job whenever possible. DarkNecrid 21:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You might want to re-read my reply and the community portal's opening comment, because I'm pretty sure they answer you. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As you know that it is not Izzy alone who did that update it is probably more appropriate to thank ANet on the update talk page for exampe. At least it doesn't hinder people to use their talk page and to use the wiki at all (the new message box can be very disturbing) poke | talk 22:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I know Izzy did the majority of it, was the only guy on his team in that vent chat, is the only guy from his team on the forums, etc. His team is mostly people to bounce ideas off of and is really small. Also I did reread your reply and all I got out of it (mind you I am very very tired having been up all day so forgive me if you mean something like people can comment in the same topic as long as it is about the user or something), is that it would be an editing issue and limiting it. Again, it'll just be a race to compliment him and that is stupid. I don't need 25 birthday cards all saying the same thing on my birthday but I enjoy the thought none-the-less. It's wiki so whatever, if you think letting however many people there are saying hey good job thank you for improving my videogame experience (something game devs love to hear like no tomorrow) for a short bit each update is going to be too spammy or ruin his page or whatever the argument against this is for just one thread, then that is fine cause you're the sysop and not me, but I find it sorta silly to not allow such a thing when the man basically used up a shit ton of his real life time working on such a thing, getting on vent with a ton of players constantly, posting off work duty on a forum with tons of players, and basically did the majority of the elite skill balance update by himself for just 1 thread every month (going off their current schedule) while everyone else from Anet is getting compliments out the rear end on their talk pages then fine I guess! I doubt one compliment thread with just some short messages (a paragraph at best.) is going to do any harm, especially when a skill balance update is only really coming once every month, it'll fizzle out after the immediate update, etc. But it gives people a chance to be personal with him and tell him how much he improved their experience. The man doesn't deserve just compliments, he deserves a shit ton more than that from the work he has done lately, but unfortunately I don't have his address to give him what he really deserves so... DarkNecrid 22:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * An addendum to my point, Izzy himself liked and used the Wiki page as a skill discussion page. In fact, he encouraged it. Maybe you guys didn't pay attention to the page when it went live, but Ensign and Farin (among others, I'm fairly sure Divine posted too..) used the page, and Izzy replied. A ton of other players did too. Why did he stop? Because a bunch of people proceeded to attack every single little thing that anyone said, flame him by saying he sucks, and trolled him. So what did he do? Make skill feedback pages and ignored his talk page because it became complicated to edit. (users note: it became complex to edit because people started trolling and flaming him personally, not because there was a lot of issues or people discussing) So the skill feedback pages were made. But now he ignores them too. Why did he stop? Because people like to make new sections just to say other people's ideas are retarded, list skills that aren't problems at all, and are generally retarded there. (users note: it became complex to edit because people started making whole sections to tell other people their ideas are bad and did things that weren't issues. An additional problem was it was split across 13 sections with different sections in each section. Too much clicking.). Neither time is the issue it is too complex to edit until people start spamming it. Now, you can take the easy way out and just lock the page, but that is missing the point of the original page which was used by Izzy himself as a skill discussion page. Right now you guys are ferreting all the issues to two places he does not read (well he may read parts of skill feedback, but very rarely) nor likes. You are basically ferreting the issues to two places that are basically as bad as the archived Izzy Cartwright page for him. That's great. Accomplishes a lot. :| If the purpose is to do that, then okay. I have no problem with the UB page, even though every other single skill's talk page is about how good it is or not, how it works, and trivia, if just because UB sucks now and no one cares about it. But maybe instead of killing part of the page's original purpose (you can say talk pages aren't forums all you want but Izzy used it this way too and didn't mind at all until people ruined it) you could just remove all flaming towards other members, flaming towards Izzy, trolling towards other members, trolling towards Izzy, attacks against updates, etc. Yes, it's a lot of work because now you need people to actually read the comments and be moderators in essence, but I'd rather have someone doing a lot of work and keeping the essence of the page and letting the community actually having a place to DISCUSS stuff with him, rather than taking the easy route and neutering the page and sending everyone's comments to a place that no one actually likes at all because the whole structure of it is retarded hard for one man to read (skill feedback) or is cluttered with non-skill things (portal). This whole GvG change was the result of Izzy having to do some hard work for once and it will probably do more for PvP than every GvG related change in the past 3 years because someone at Anet decided to finally do some work instead of taking the easy way out all the time. And just neutering the page so it is pointless (and no, talking about his empty user page is not a purpose.) is lame. Oh yeah, and after he stopped reading the skill feedback pages, guess what he did? He took the secret forum he made in late 2006 but rarely used that is off wiki and invited a ton of people there so a bunch of people he chooses could talk to him because no one bothered to help him and actually talk to him about what he wanted out of his wiki page. So now you have a forum that only about 200 or so people can talk to the man about because instead of helping remove the spam, flames, and trolls, people just ignored it and let the page burn. Now you have a Wiki page and 2 sections that about 0 people can talk to the man because all 3 were made useless and no one who has the power to do something here decided to help keep the page clean so its original purpose could be used by him. Those skill feedback pages should never have needed to be made, and his secret forum certainly shouldn't have.


 * Summary: Izzy never minded (and used it as) it as a discussion page about skills and mechanics and such, until people trolled and flamed the page. So instead of destroying how he originally used the page, and forcing people to have their comments unread in 2 sections he doesn't like either, why not invest time and effort into making the page he will want to use as he originally did so he won't need that secret forum.


 * I'm not attacking you so if my tone sounds like that I'm sorry, rather I'm attacking the cons of this whole thing rather strongly because I am very strongly against this issue because I was there when the page was being used correctly, and it worked wonderfully. You just need to help bring the page back to that and help Izzy out on it, if you ever want that page to be useful. And I hope you do, because that page when it worked was a very good page, that let the community talk to him and it was very good. Keeping the community shut out from about their only non-annoying source of talking to Izzy (I am sure talking to him in-game when he is talking to people or doing stuff is rather bothersome) is pretty useless in general. DarkNecrid 12:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What he did when he first started that page is no longer relevant, largely because of one thing -- he set up the skill feedback section specifically for skill feedback. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:06, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Because if you read what I said his page got trolled and flames and spammed and no one with power decided to help him by setting rules against it or seriously monitoring it and taking serious action against those who repeatedly did it. And then he abandoned the skill feedback pages too for nearly the same reasons (plus it being horribly built) (seriously). DarkNecrid 13:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently, he reads the skill feedback but doesn't respond all the time -- that's not a problem in the ArenaNet namespace, but it is on his talk page. Our main purpose on the wiki is to think about the wiki -- we cannot let his talk page go the same way as it has before, and it'll take drastic action to do so. If that means going against ArenaNet's incredibly poorly thought-out purpose of using our wiki as a forum, so be it. They need to use the other forums for that job, or better yet, start their own. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * He says that but he very rarely actually does. The structure of it is very poor, the users using it even poorer, and basically it is an archived Izzy page except splintered in 13 sections each divided into 20+ more sections. Yes, think about the Wiki, but you have to understand that Izzy can't...erm...do you use MSN? Maybe it would just be faster if we discuss it on a messenger and more in private since there is stuff I would rather not discuss publically. DarkNecrid 13:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "He says that but he very rarely actually does." Yeah. Ok.
 * If there is something wrong with the ArenaNet sections, go about improving them. "It doesn't work there, so let's have the same stuff on User talk:Isaiah Cartwright; it still won't work, but y'know, it's got Izzy's name on it" isn't exactly the best argument in the world. If having to forcibly moving things where things belong will mean Izzy can actually respond on his own talk page, and those things are where they belong, I'll gladly do it.
 * I don't give my MSN info out to people on the wiki, and even if I did, I wouldn't move this discussion there -- a place for everything, and for everything its place. Talking of which, this belongs on the community portal discussion section, not here; it's past the point of arguing at me for doing the changes, and has reached the point of discussing the changes themselves. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ic. Well I would rather not discuss stuff that would get people in trouble on a place where certain people may or may not be watching. This is where a PM function would come in handy. (I don't think Wiki has a Private function...). Also yea, it probably belongs there but you seemed to be the guy who did the changes and did it strongly without much discussion so I went to you. The only way you could improve the skill feedback sections btw, would be the basically make them into a talk page where people could talk about skills. Which is exactly what Izzy used his talk page as originally. And it will work, it sure did a good job of it for a fairly long time after his discussion page went up. Months at least. When people realized they could get away with stuff, it went down hill. DarkNecrid 13:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "make them into a talk page where people could talk about skills" -- yes, that's how they work at the moment. Someone puts a basic idea on the main page so it's clearly readable, then people discuss it on the talk page. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure that works for skills, but an entire re-balance is an entirely different story. Logically, categorization is not the best option for "Misc". It should be left on the talk page; no more need be said by me. -- Readem 13:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Izzy already gave up a shit ton of his real life time just to do the last update and you expect him to tab/click 13 different sections and check out well over 100 different issues (a lot of them aren't even good issues, mind you.) then exit out of each tab or hit back well over a hundred times or watch well over 100 different pages and still have a good life considering he's already stuck between 2 games and making good skill changes and PvP mechanics for GW1???? Maybe if the guy could live 48 hour days or something, but that isn't happening. The reason his talk page (when it was clean, mind you.) worked, is because people could give immediate issues (like say, the (I remind you) amazingly important need to be discussed by a lot of people GvG changes, and it is right there. No tabs. No clicking thru a ton of pages. No complex code for replying or posting an issue. Just bam. Right there. Issue gets answered? Archive it. Issue unimportant? Put it into an Unimportant Issue place. The talk page when it was clean worked easily 500x better than the skill feedback pages, and all creating it did was give another place for the same people who ruined his talk page to ruin because no one took action against those people. He needs a place to discuss these things but I can't go into details. DarkNecrid 13:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

DarkNecrid -- your argument relies on his talk page continuing that usefulness. As we know from observing the past, it doesn't work so well. This move is supposed to make his talk page manageable; using it as a forum doesn't, regardless of how important something is. -- Brains12 \ talk 14:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, it doesn't work so well because people realized a long time ago they could abuse it and easily get away with it. It worked for months on end as a workable place to discuss (NO. NOT A FORUM.) skill changes and mechanics integral to the game, until people realized they could flame and troll him and no sysop/whatever the hell the order of things are on this wiki that are above/below them and have power) won't take action. There is a rule against no personal attacks on this Wiki, in my limited knowledge, I know that much. I could go through about 5 different archives right now and probably point out at least 50+ personal attacks against him. Nothing was ever done about it. That, is why the talk page went down hill. No one who has the power to warn users and such, did anything to the people who truly ruined the talk page from its original purpose. Can you honestly tell me the talk page wouldn't work the way it used to (back when it was clean and people could talk about the issues with him) if you had people warning the users, hell even blocking (that's a temp ban in wiki lingo, right?) the users who flame & troll Izzy and others/disrupt the discussion by getting caught up on unimportant points? Because that is the sole reason he made the skill feedback page and abandoned his talk page originally, because everyone just started trolling and flaming him. It says a lot when Ensign and Farin abandon the page too, considering Ensign stayed on Guru all the way until he quit the game, and if you know anything about Guru you know how bad it can get as a place (not even saying as a forum, I mean just as a place to be.). The page used to serve the purpose the skill feedback did, and it did it far better than skill feedback did. Yes, I understand this is a lot of work, and that no one will probably want to bother to make the page useful like it used to be, I can understand that. But Izzy can't just go to a forum. If he could have done that, he would have done that a long time ago. That's all I'm saying on that issue publically. DarkNecrid 14:18, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said, your scenario is not manageable, which is why (I assume) the sysops could not manage with enforcement: 1. reports of personal attacks and trolling were almost non-existent, 2. there's simply too much to read for sysops, with too many off-topic threads, with other things to manage. As I said, this is supposed to make things manageable, and put things where they belong, something that's important on a wiki. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 14:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion is happening in 3 different places at the same time; may I suggest we continue it at the most visible place (the Community portal section)? Erasculio 14:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * DarkNecrid, when talking about how bad the skill suggestion pages are, please remember that it was Izzy who created the pages and invented that system of one page per skill and one section per issue. The only thing we did was moving all the pages to the ANet namespace. If the system doesn't work it is the fault of the users that are just not able to use them correctly; and it is not possible for a few sysops to tell every user how they should use the skill suggestion pages.
 * Also it was not Izzy who "created his talk page for skill discussions".. He registered here and as soon as people knew Izzy, the skill balancer, is on the wiki they started to talk with him about balancing. In the beginning that was probably fine but with the wiki getting bigger it got impossible to read through all that comments to separate balancing discussions and flaming. Also again think of how annoying it can be to read through the wiki and every minute there is the "You have new messages" box is showing again. Moving the skill discussions to a more separated place was the best thing Izzy could do; the ones that made the discussions bad are the users.
 * Also - I don't know if you were here in the beginning of the wiki especially when Izzy joined - Izzy never liked the wiki as a discussion place. It started with the need of signing comments and having to archive the page...
 * Last thing I want to say about skill balancing discussions: Count the number of official fansites and imagine how many people are there already discussing about skill balancing. The wiki is just an additional place... It is impossible to read all comments and especially to comment on them. poke | talk 15:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Izzy created the pages, but I don't think he realized how complicated it was when he made it. It isn't that it doesn't work because of the users, it's that it is time consuming to read all the changes constantly. Yes, he registered here. People who talk to him daily (hell, I think Ensign still does and he quit!) knew he was registering here and helped out. Yes, the discussion is bad because of the users - so let's do something about that. Also yeah, I know that's annoying (I don't like it either.) but people can help him with archiving. Also, it is the CR's job to read the fansites and pass along information, not Izzy's. (though he reads the forums anyways, though usually just the respective PvP forums to make it much easier on himself.) Also, I did as Erasculio asked. DarkNecrid 15:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Sysops
DM, I have to ask. What do you have against sysops? The "Mini Me...since when have sysops talking about there wrong doings in the first place?" comment, and some of the comments you gave during the arbitration request and here just show to me that you have some bias against sysops. I'd like to sort out a problem you see, rather than having to see those kinds of comments without a resolution or clarification. -- Brains12 \ talk 22:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe I said (somewhere) that I tend to not have respect for authoritys or powers to be. Fixing the problem, I don't think we can fix whats hard coded into my nature, but if you have any ideas I'd be glad to here them. And I apologize for that comment it was leaning on a NPA. <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  22:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In my humble opinion I think I was disrespected be the powers that be when I brought up the Ursan Blessing lock. You're lucky I'm not volitile enough to care. The thing is people want their opinions heard and not picked apart. Replying with a rebuttal was unecessary and just shows you ought to be more objective in this position. (hint: don't argue with this point brains, just say 'objection noted.') Spawnlegacy 09:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I read that again and it sounded more of an attack than it should have. bl i guess. Spawnlegacy 11:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry for replying to this, but I think I need to clear it up -- when one puts forth an argument, one expects a reply. Objectivity doesn't mean one doesn't reply to anything, it means "being just, unbiased and not influenced by emotions or personal prejudices". I am noting your objection, but by replying to this (or anything else) I'm not attacking or disrespecting you in any way -- I'm simply responding to an argument you have put forth; we're contributing in a constructive discussion. By doing this, we both become more informed about what we're discussing, and so we can hope to improve things. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 11:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't coz I'm not a sysop ^^ Spawnlegacy 12:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, you can. Most things on the wiki are decided through discussion, in which anyone can participate. Sure, some of the actions may take sysop tools to do so (like deleting, banning, protecting), but you can still participate in the decision-making process. You may have noticed that every policy is decided through community consensus, not sysop consensus. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sometimes it may seem that it's the sysops and admins that are deciding things, but that is simply because they are the ones taking the time to participate in the discussions. All users of this community are welcome to participate, case in point, the changes that were just made to the Guild page policy. The discussion included many users, and ideas and opinions of all of them were taken into account as adjustments were made. When everyone agreed, it was implemented. That's how it works. If you don't like the way something is on the wiki, you need to participate in the process to get it changed. And this is NOT an attack, or meant disrespectfully, but if everyone who chooses to vent their opinions, most of which come out in the form of complaints, participated in the decision making and policy discussions, things would probably get done faster, and more people would be happier.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 00:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Project
I made a project page in case you wanted to help us document all these cinematics :) Be nice if you had the BMP &mdash; Seru    Talk 01:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you are going to edit all the pages and change them so they're up to guidelines then why wont you sign the prject page? &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 00:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Tango
Where did you get your information on tangos and how to create them? I'm thinking of cleaning up my little signature image of jpg imperfections and thought about tangos. -- People of Antioch 23:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * User talk:Poke/archive poke | talk 23:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I got my info from User:LordBiro :P --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 00:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Thumbs Up/Down
You cool with me making a Thumbs Up and Thumbs down template with These:  Images ? -- Wolf  19:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? Calor  [[Image:User_Calor_Sig.png|19px|Talk]] 19:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * they look bad :( poke | talk 19:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I also don't think they're needed as a template. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well then, is their anything wrong with me using those images around and about? -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 19:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're going to use them as spam, there is something wrong. However, if you wish to use them for their purpose of well done or not-so-well done, go ahead. However, I don't think it's necessary to put it in the Template namespace -- perhaps make it a userspace template (i.e. ) as it's your own. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * kk, got it. -- Wolf [[Image:User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png|19px| ]] 19:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

hi evryone im cursed angel and i rly wub templates plz moar of them --<font color="Black">Cursed Angel  19:29, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

FFF
Can you kindly keep an eye on this page? I strongly suspect that Brodly is attempting to start up wikidrama because he can't admit that he's wrong. Nbajammer 03:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey Brains Do Something Funny!
Better stop arguing lest administration break it up by banning us. Anyway, you think concensus on policy for Izzy's talk has been reached? If so can you coordinate a draft? This has gone on long enough. <font color="#CC0000">Spawn ‎ <font color="#CC0000">Legacy  19:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm currently writing a summary of a conclusion. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

wtf
i guess you have to get rid of your delete template. &mdash; Seru    Talk 02:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry Seru that came out wrong so I apologize for that. As to the reason for my revert, even though we can delete image revisions it does state in large writing not to replace an image until the copyvio is deleted and merely replacing the image doesn't remove the copyvio completely as it still exists in the history. -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 02:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And what's the problem with deleting the old revision to clear up the copyvio issue now? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Linux copy vio
This image says that it can be used but needs to mention the author names. :\ so idk i dont think we can use it tho. &mdash; Seru    Talk 16:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been released into the public domain, so it's not a copyvio.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 16:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I didnt see anything on that link saying it was public domain. I had to find the image itself and it said you can use it if you give them credit. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 16:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Look at the upload history. The attribution is there, and the link where it's released into public domain is on the image pages as well. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 16:11, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could've at least read the image page first, too. It has the attribution link right under the public domain tag. -- Chaiyo Kaldor חיו 16:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok... I'm going to stand corrected on this one. Seru is correct. The attribution is for the previous version, the one that is loaded currently IS copyrighted. My bad.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 16:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah. K, I didn't think Seru was talking about finding the external link. Is the image not showing up for anyone else? Considering the messed up upload history, I'm not surprised that I'm still seeing the penguin. -- Chaiyo Kaldor חיו 16:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In looking through the site listed for the PD release, there is NO Linux related image on that wikipedia user's site. So I'm not sure where Santax got it from. The Penguin image Tux.svg is definitely copyrighted, and not compatible with GFDL. Might be safest to just delete it completely. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 16:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * AKA why i tagged it copyvio &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 16:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, poke has now deleted the whole shebang, and once again Seru, you were right, and I was wrong, my bad :D--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 16:57, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * After deleting all revisions after another, I found a better image :P Problem solved. poke | talk 17:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is epic poke &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 17:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

"The wiki is having some problems today"
Why? I've tried asking in a couple other places, but the questions mysteriously vanish. It's a conspiracy, I tell you! (A couple other things vanish, too. It's a very careful conspiracy.) -- Armond Warblade 16:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See GWW:BUG. In short, the server time seems to randomly "go back" 4 hours or so, so page histories get messed up if contributions are made within that time. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:48, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And to actually answer the question you asked: I don't know. It started after some downtime the other day, so Anet must've messed up the servers somehow. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 12:57, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ANet or the vandal. (By the way, I didn't get a chance to thank you for cleaning up my userspace after that hit, as well as Shard's and Nuke's and Auron's, or whoever it was that got hit. So thanks.) -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 13:05, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

What was the downtime for, again? I tried to access it, and it was busy. -- People of Antioch 17:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No idea, we didn't get any message beforehand, nor any explanation after. (And not a problem, Armond.) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 18:54, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, vandal throwing in a bunch of extraneous characters that link to a bunch of pages = overloaded wiki? We've had that trouble on PvX before - insane amounts of data suddenly added to already popular pages that a lot of people are trying to load up = server strain. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 16:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Did I hear my name? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV 16:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but we've had similar large-scale vandalism before and it didn't cause as many problems as we've had this weekend. (Also, Nuke, you shouldn't use sup in your signature :/) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 14:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Armond, I think those problems were largely because we had a crappy server :P  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 17:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Would you mind
Since you're 'so helpful you wouldn't mind Would you mind writing up some guide to using templates on userpages? &mdash; Seru    Talk 23:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We have Help:Templates; I'd imagine that'll be useful. Y0 also has his user page design guide. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They don't seem that wiki noob friendly :\ &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, they're designed for wiki newbs. If a guide is too confusing, just go with a "this is how you use it, ". --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats no fun. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Writing a more specific guide would be really hard. People use templates for so many different things. It's a lot better if you either look around and copy parts from others to tweak, or give a link and ask someone to explain how it's done. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 08:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Personal Attack Fest
This talk page has been transformed in a personal attack fest, can you, as an admin, sdo something about it. Thanks ^^ --<font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">age <font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">ontu 21:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm trying to keep with the talk pages, but the wiki's being slow and I can only do so much -- getting some other admins in atm. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh oki, and sry if it sounded like I'm angry at you or something, cause I'm not :P (I reread it and I had that impression) --<font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]<font color="#CC0000">M <font color="#330000">ontu 21:34, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh no, I didn't see it that way :P --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Should we also protect the game/developer updates pages for a small amount of time? Knowing some they make try to take their rage and anger there. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  21:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late response, but doesn't look like it needs protection now. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What policy allows you to restrict discussion pages? Could you link me to it?  As I understand it, you do this to limit meandering comments at times when a certain discussion page becomes too popular?  I find that it only serves to make the wikis overcomplicated; you just add an extra step by forcing the users to go to a new page to post their meandering comments.  Which slows things down, which is bad.  Denizen Zero 02:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Found the community portal dicussions. I hope the wiki bureaucracy makes the right choice regarding said topic.  I would hate to see discussion restricted indefinitely.  I realize these aren't forums, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have fun discussing content. Denizen Zero 03:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You should have "fun" discussing content on your user talk pages, not on arenanet's user talk pages. The arenanet non-user talk pages (the one in the arenanet portal namespace) should be kept heavily moderated, so ArenaNet can just look at it and understand what people want, instead of having to sort through pages of personal attacks to get to the information. That section is for their benefit - not yours.
 * Don't forget how forums work. Go to guru and try to open a "WTS" thread in Riverside. It'll get deleted almost immediately. They won't even bother moving it, they'll just delete it and warn/ban you. If you want to treat ArenaNet Talk like a forum, be prepared to deal with forum mentality. We're not going to start banning users for repeatedly breaking rules (unless it becomes a problem), but expect your posts to be moderated - much like they would on any forum.
 * Also, your logic about slowing wikis down is terrible. By forcing users to put the content in the right place to begin with, it lessens the load on the administrators to place it there themselves. There isn't a convenient "move" option for posts/threads like there is on forums, so manually moving stuff takes forever. If we allow people to post stuff in the wrong place, they won't ever bother to put it where it actually belongs (because being lazy is easier than doing the work yourself). How can we avoid that unnecessary strain on administrators? Oh, right, by allowing an entire namespace for comments and suggestions to ArenaNet, and saving ANet employee's talk pages for discussion directly concerning said employees. As long as comments are on topic and aren't a violation of policy, they won't be removed. Is it really so hard to make posts without off-topic discussion and personal attacks? - Auron 05:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict, forgot to save) Auron basically said what I had wanted to reply with in his first paragraph. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 06:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand the purpose of said proposal; I don't think people should be able to spam discussions with pointless junk. You're going to make a decision about this whether or not the larger community wants you to or not.  I come in good faith to  try to give you feedback and hopefully influence your decisions enough to not entirely restrict all discussions to the article itself.


 * Allow me to make myself clear. First, by content, I mean discussing what the article is about and not the article itself.  Say it's the discussion for the Golden Skull Strike article; I honestly think that the wiki is lesser for not being able to discuss things about Golden Skull Strike, such as it's usefulness, synergies, etc...  I'm not saying that we should be able to say random stuff or that articles shouldn't be temporarily locked or arbitrated, just that the entire wiki should not become restricted like that and never permanently.  I by no means advocate spam, personal attacks, or irrelevant discussion.


 * This place would be far less interesting without the ability to discuss content, in my opinion; whether you come to agree with this opinion or not is a matter of what you believe. My job here is to give feedback about what you guys are doing as leaders of the wiki, not to flame or get into ugly arguments.  Denizen Zero 13:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We end up with a conflict of interest here, then. I, and many others, believe if one wishes to discuss the merits of Golden Skull Strike, it should be done on the appropriate skill feedback page in the ArenaNet namespace, not at Talk:Golden Skull Strike. I seriously misread Denizen's comment... Calor  [[Image:User_Calor_Sig.png|19px|Talk]] 13:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * @Denizen
 * That kind of talk (about synergies etc) goes on the skill's talk page (in that case, Talk:Golden Skull Strike). I've yet to see a skill talk page made unmanageable by spam comments - even the ones that get heavy with comments are usually full of ones worth reading, and they get archived regularly if they're too heavy with stuff. Those articles' talk pages are for the wiki as a whole; for users like you and me. Nobody owns them (like userspace) or uses them for official business (like arenanet talk).
 * I agree - skill discussion is a lot of fun to read and participate in. Balance discussion isn't quite as fun, and it also tends to spark heated debates and wallsoftext. Since nobody really posted "hey i think steam goes well with glyph of immolation" on izzy's talk page anyway, I don't see moderating those posts as a huge detriment. They've traditionally gone on the specific update's talk or on the skill's talk page. Which is fine by me, and as far as I know, those pages aren't being heavily moderated.
 * I originally proposed forum-like moderation for only a few pages; the ones that were made unusable as talk pages by the sheer amount of spam. ANet talk pages rarely get that much spam, but they're used by ArenaNet (theoretically) to gather input on skills and general issues, so offtopic discussion doesn't belong. Skill talk pages, however, get very little spam, and since they aren't used for anything in particular, I don't see any harm in leaving them unmoderated. - Auron 14:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what I wanna hear <3! Denizen Zero 14:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey, hey, hey hey hey.
Hey. I was hoping you could point me in the direction of things to do for the wiki so my vote counts because I want to help out. I'm sexcellent and proofreading articles for grammar and whatnot, so... that'd be neat. I checked out the special pages and did some of those but honestly I'm not very good at them. wat2do Vael Victus   02:07, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars Wiki:How to help should have some links for what you can do -- projects, stubs, image updating, etc. (You won't be able to vote in this election as the appropriate contribution count is required before the voting phase.) --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 02:14, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, babe. Vael Victus  [[Image:User_Vael_Victus_Sig.jpg|18px|Pancakes.]] 03:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

...I was being serious.
Whenever I obs, I will always see Eviscerate and I'll always see Infuse Health...I was just making suggestions based off the current "style" of nerfing (See: Smiter's Boon.) I'm very offended that you would take my comments as being mean or a joke. =( You should really apologize. RitualDoll 05:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Userpage help
Can you plz fix my userpage. I can't get the two "boxes" to show up in one row. I want the random boxes to be in a line and the userbox box to be below them, but i cant figure it out xD &mdash; Seru    Talk 01:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 02:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I can get it to work with random2 being before random, but it doesn't seem to work the other way -- the userbox box stays under the random2 box, rather than random. Also, it spreads across the page quite a bit... you must be using a wider resolution. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 02:12, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll see what zerpha and Y0 can do about it, but thx for trying. I do use 1680x1050 :) but i do try and make userpages that can be used on 1280x1024 as well as widescreen. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 02:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think generally the wiki is optimized for 1024x768.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 02:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I might have to make two userpages lol a widescreen and a full screen &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 02:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

guild bombing
I want to create an article "guild bombing" and place a link to it from guild article. Any objections? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:HH LEADER (talk). -- HH LEADER  talk 22:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wth is "guild bombing?" <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 22:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * with current guild structure all officers have eqyial rights. members are not tied to particular officer. Thus one officer can kick all the membersif in disagreement with other officers or a leader. sometimes people do it just for fun. This affects mostly new guilds, but can happen to any. this sometimes called guild bombing.-- HH LEADER [[Image:User_HH_LEADER_Peace_symbol_svg.png]] talk 22:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's a common term, by all means. I personally haven't heard of it. By the way, you don't have to ask anyone to create an article -- go ahead, and if anyone has any objections later on, they can discuss it then. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

color
you cans help me pick colors? &mdash; Seru    Talk 23:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ehh I have enough trouble picking my own userpage colours... I'll leave this to you. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * noes fun brains =P &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah hopefully this code will adjust like its supposed to xD. The other one didnt want to change on the hour. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 22:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The switch thing would only clean the code up -- the problem with it not changing on the hour is because of the cache or something; CURRENTTIME and the like often don't match the actual time. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah it was about 5 mins late which really isnt that bad. &mdash;  Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 22:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm idk it doesnt want to auto update :\ if you have a suggestion plz tell. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Click the clock to force it to update. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * O sweet . Is there a way to force update when you view the page? &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so; as far as I know, you'd need to do it manually if you want it to force update. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm well maybe an ?action=purge something along those lines idk. I'll work on it. Maybe i can get a box to click on at least. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The clock does the same thing, but I guess you might want another link so you can change what it says (e.g. "click here to update").--[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Am i allowed to use a URL in my signature? like make it link to http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Seru?action=purge then it would clear when they went to my page. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know, to be honest, but I wouldn't do it myself. It's just colours, does it really matter when it updates? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sort of kind of. It would be cool to see it update by itself but if i can't be allowed to use a url in my signature then its not a big loss. I'll run it by Ab.er.rant &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 23:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

'''You must at least include a link to either your user page or your talk page. It may optionally also include a link to your contributions. Aside from the above three links, no other internal or external links are allowed. If there are useful pages you wish to bookmark, place them in your user page, not your signature.''' From GWW:SIGN. So no url :(--Sum Mesmer Guy contribs 08:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I just found something out to get an uncached time; just use the time template but be cautious on longer pages that require caching. poke | talk 15:01, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * poke ftw! &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 20:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

ArenaNet:Guild Wars 2 suggestions/Unrated GvG
Delete tag why? <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 00:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Replied on its talk page. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 01:01, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

umm
you can be the bad guy and delete this. At least i think you deleted mine b4 &mdash; Seru    Talk 04:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I did? I just looked through my logs and didn't find any related category deletions. And why should that category be deleted? --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Idk someone delted a category i made and said "no one should have their own category" I'll have to look and see who deleted it. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 16:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyway, that category will likely be deleted as its template, Template:Friend of Blood, is redundant to Template:User Friend. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and it was poke that deleted my category or at least took it off my userbox pages. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 16:22, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Guardians of empires
hi! please why dont you delete it right now!!! you can delete!!! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Infworld (talk).
 * Ok, it's been deleted. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 21:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Meh
Near-dickery on Izzy's talk makes me say meh.

That's all. Don't bother replying if you don't feel like it, I probably won't read it anyway.

-- Armond Warblade 22:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

My comment wasn't relevant?
I think it answered the question and gave a reasonable reason why doing it the way suggested wouldn't work. It was hardly trolling or redundant, I'm a little confused as to why it was removed. Misery 10:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Reviewing again, if it was because I didn't answer it "purely from a programming point of view", then perhaps the question should be moved to the page of someone in the programming team as Izzy isn't a programmer. Misery 10:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * More likely he removed it because it wasn't Izzy responding. See my section above. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 12:54, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Izzy shouldn't have to personally respond to every single question, in fact he doesn't log into the wiki that often. My answer could have sufficed and the issue been considered closed, instead now we have had two other people add useless responses. My response was not useless or inappropriate, so I don't really understand why it was removed at all. If it were deemed "a discussion between two other users", then it should have been moved (likely to the original questioner's talk) rather than simply removing the answer, which as previously mentioned, has lead to two other useless responses, one of which has already been removed. Misery 13:03, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's Izzy's talk page, and questions asked personally to him should be answered by him. "in fact he doesn't log into the wiki that often" -- that may be due to the fact that he finds it hard to respond to issues when he does log on; he's already stated he likes the new system. If you want to continue or respond to a discussion started by someone else, answer on their own talk page; I didn't move it to Erasculio's talk page because he was asking a question directly to Izzy, not to you or anyone else -- he wants a developer's reply, from a design or programming perspective, not a player's response. In fact, your response didn't even answer Erasculio's question -- he wanted to know if a skill could be turned into a PvE only skill but left to its original attribute, with the PvP version being entirely locked; that's not what they did to Smiter's Boon (PvP) as they just altered the numbers. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 13:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There has been a very long discussion about this kind of thing, that may be seen here. One idea proposed there is that one of the reasons why Isaiah does not reply anymore to his userpage is thanks to how big it became, and how users discussing among themselves made the page very cluttered. It was decided, then, that all content in that page should be aimed at Isaiah, without other people talking among themselves; based on input from Isaiah himself, that may be a way to improve things over there. Erasculio 14:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Fewer than 100
How many am I at? I must be amazingly close and I'll surely be there before tomorrow. Not that I'm only editing for that reason, but I noticed I was close, so I thought I would try voting. Misery 15:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Per the rules, you need 100 contributions before the voting stage begins. Erasculio 15:43, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Use the code at the bottom of User:Poke/GWWT to see the number of contributions you've made by namespace. Also, you'd need the right amount of contributions before the voting stage. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, my mistake. Misery 15:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

My contribs
Why should you delete it ? even if it was trolling thats no reason to start deleting contribs -.-" then just say it Lilondra 17:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean your contribution at Isaiah's talk page, see the section above about it (I'm really feeling sorry for Brains today ;_;). Erasculio 18:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Izzy's talk page
I don't know why my link was deleted, when I checked on Izzy's page there were several links to skills and or attributes that he should take a look at and you didn't touch them. Why are mine being deleted when I'm doing the exact same thing as the other users are? Am I doing something wrong?--Lancy1214 14:44, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See above section. <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 15:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Izzy's talk page is not there to advertise links to feedback pages you want looked at. The other links on that talk page indicate moved discussion, hence the "moved to". You might want to try reading the notice on his talk page to see what you can and can't do. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Requests
sorry bout that, ALLmasked

Request
This the same page you deleted a while back? Looks like it was recreated. --  Wandering   Traveler  17:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

The Chart
Yeah. -- People of Antioch 20:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

A question of Removal
Is it allowed to modify one's talk page (apart from adding content) or even delete content? Noctarch 23:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars Wiki:User pages should answer your question. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 23:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the problem with Wiki in general, you find what you want not what you need. Therefore, I thank you. Noctarch 23:14, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Odd Request
Brains you mind doing me a favor? Could you please delete all of the image revisions of these images. As the list on some of them is getting large and its starting to clog up the cache. Thanks. <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  19:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean the old revisions and not the current ones, so I'll go ahead and delete those. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes the old ones. Thanks :D. <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  20:34, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Server didn't restore the right version :/ So theres a extra revision on this image. <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  20:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird... not sure what happened there o.O. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol the wiki is famous for odd errors, and thats one of them. I guess its evidence of a cache issue XD. Anyways thanks a bunch! <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  20:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is... No problem. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:52, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It works well enough if you use it for what it's intended to do... The problem is, pretty much everyone basically told the original intentions to diaf a long time ago. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 22:07, 31 August 2008 (UTC)