User talk:Zesbeer/talk archive 2

roj...

 * besides 600 smite what else do smite monks have: nothing..... roj is needed so those of us who want to play a smite monk have a viable option. also if your stupid enough to stand in roj in pvp then you deserve to die from it. also flags are good or soo i hear.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 04:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ArenaNet_talk:AI_bugs. Enough said... &mdash; User_Poki_sig.png Poki#3  (talk ) 05:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't it obvious? Arenanet doesn't want us to play this game. Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 05:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * also if they neff it in the way you suggest bye bye me ever playing my monk again.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 07:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That won't be a nerf, it would be a fix. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 08:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * its the only reason why people bring it right now.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 08:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If a fix makes something less powerful, it's also a nerf, the categories aren't mutually exclusive. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It will remain to be a viable skill in HM. As it is still Armor-ignoring, it deals more damage than most SH nukers. And it's holy damage so Undead get pwned by it too. The fix of the bug programming flaw is required to make the game one step closer to be balanced.
 * Also it doesn't matter if someone leaves the game because there is no broken shit they can abuse as there is at least a selection of better players. Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 12:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make it less powerful. The 'power' would be the same, but the AI would act more like normal humans do when they are hit by RoJ: get away. Unless you change it to make 'hidden damage' to humans too so they don't see the column of light and take all the damage without knowing they are being hit by RoJ, it's not a nerf, it's a fix. And if you bring 90% movement reduction even with a fixed AI, not even humans would get away in time. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 12:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "also if your stupid enough to stand in roj in pvp then you deserve to die from it" It's actually a very strong spike assist because it goes under SB and still manages to do ~200 (~250 with good timing and a bit of luck) damage.  What do do smite monks have beside RoJ and 600/Smite?  How about huge AoE Holy damage (oh, and it removes a condition/hex, too)?  What about Ranged Counter Blow Signet (yeah, you can stop spikes with Bane Signet)?  Castigation Signet, which is still wonderful energy management?  Reversal of Damage, which mitigates enough damage that even bad Infuses can catch spikes (oh, and you see yellow numbers)?  Zealot's Fire (awesome with good energy management)?  Judge's Insight (just plain awesome)?  Oh, and I seem to recall someone winning a gold cape with smiting prayers, too.  Before you QQ about how terrible everything else in Smiting Prayers is, so you're going to stop playing it because monks have only one attribute line, at least get your facts straight.  People have run smite monks/rits/mesmers for a while now, and for good reasons.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * miss my point more plz --[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 21:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * besides 600 smite what else do smite monks have: nothing.....'
 * No, I listed a bunch of other viable smite skills.
 * roj is needed so those of us who want to play a smite monk have a viable option.
 * See previous comment.
 * also if your stupid enough to stand in roj in pvp then you deserve to die from it.
 * No, there are plenty of ways to kill decent players with it. Knockdown is an easy example.
 * also flags are good or soo i hear.
 * I didn't comment on this; was your point in that sentence? If not, I'm pretty sure I addressed it.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  21:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i was 1 referring to elites and builds in general for both pvp and pve 2 i realize that there are other skills in the line but a lot of people enjoy playing roj. also i noted 600 smite so that should be a CLEAR indication to you that i know that there are other useful skills that use smite. 3 key word STAND did i say knockdown? or snared? no 4 read what the other person in this thread said I was asking this because what if I do some vanquishing with my h/h and they fail to recognize the RoJ as an AoE spell and they get wiped.

also at boro, i didn't say i was going to "leave the game" i said i would stop playing my monk. also it should be clear to you that anet doesn't want the game to be balanced and if they did skills wouldn't see super nerffs and super buffs. -- Zesbeer 21:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You said you were referring to elites? Where?  I must've missed it.
 * A lot of people enjoyed playing Endurance. That makes it okay!  Unrelatedly, you later go on to say that the issue was that the OP was worried about being wiped by it during VQ; what does "people enjoy playing it" have to do with that?
 * 600/smite aren't general usage skills, so it's really hard to make the comparison. I mean, sure I could take Sliver Armor on a balanced team, but it really won't be worthwhile, will it?  Holy Wrath is the same deal.  None of the skills I named are niche, while 600/smite smite bars are good for one thing and one thing only; there's a clear-cut difference.
 * Snared people aren't standing, true story.
 * In the context of "my heroes get killed by this while I try to VQ", everything you've said so far is totally irrelevant (mobs using 600/smite? good joke); if you're not going to respond to the OP in the next post, don't capslock at me for doing the same thing.  Thx.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  22:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol @ super nerfs/buffs making the game balanced. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  22:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * /facepalm put more words in my mouth.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 22:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant, the same "if Arena Net nerfs X I will stop playing my character/stop playing GW/kill myself" arguments were made against nerfing Ursan Blessing and nerfed it was. The same (so-called) arguments about "people enjoy playing with X so don't nerf it" were made regarding Ursan, and it was still nerfed. Therefore, those are not good arguments, and insisting on them won't prevent RoJ from being (rightfully) nerfed. Erasculio 23:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * see ersculio i wasn't making that argument i just am stating the fact that i wont play my monk any more if they change it. it was the only thing that got me to play my monk in the first place after about a 2 year stop.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 00:04, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry; I interpreted "dost" as "does", and so my comment after the edit conflict was made in error. I wasn't putting words in your mouth"; it was more like "trying to shape the gargle spewing from your mouth into words."  That line aside, I can point you to where you've said everything else I commented on, if you'd like.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  01:40, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Raine i stopped caring what you had to say to me when you started with the personal attacks and if you can't figure out that in my above sentence that my use of dost was a typo (also the word dost means 'A second person singular present tense of do.') and gather that my true meaning was dose not or doesn't, is not my problem.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 03:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I love whenever someone loses an argument on wiki they cry NPA lulz. -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 03:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What is Regina suppose to do about any of this? Just what does any skill feedback have to do with the community team? Most of you posting here know the appropriate place for these comments, and know that Regina's already gargantuan page is NOT IT. Please take it to the Skill Feedback pages if you are going to continue. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:09, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * yep adrin i really "lost the argument" if some one can't carry on a normal discussion with out resorting to personal attacks, then its the person who didn't use person attacks who "won" also unless some one attacks me again i have nothing else to say and have stopped caring about this topic--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 04:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @ zesbeer stop being a carebear.@wyn Most people know that there is no real place to discuss these things.I'm not saying its the right thing to do but I'm saying its pretty normal people then start discussing this stuff on the page of the most active admins. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Zesbeer you lost your argument with the following sentence: "also if they neff it in the way you suggest bye bye me ever playing my monk again." That's translated into: Dont fix it because It's the only reason I run a monk. which is: Don't fix it because I abuse it. See?
 * and:its the only reason why people bring it right now. it needs to be fixed anyway. It will still remain as a viable nuke. Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 06:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * \DO NOT CARE.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 06:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * /sigh. Sure, something I said was a personal attack.  I can't find it, but I'm sure it's in there someplace!  I mean, I'm also a Shard Fanboi, racist, sexist, nationalist, An Hero, a lesbian, the Antichrist, and whatever else people have called me with no sort of evidence.  And bad at sarcasm, too; don't forget that.
 * Once again, I misinterpreted that line; I said that already. Sue me, but "dost" and "doesn't" is kind of a stretch.  I mean, I typically don't leave out a third of a word (and 100% of the punctuation in that word) when I typo; I gave you the benefit of the doubt there for some reason that, at this point, escapes me.
 * Also, as aforementioned, "That line aside, I can point you to where you've said everything else I commented on, if you'd like." Are you going to hold me to that (I've no issue with complying), or are you still claiming that I'm putting words in your mouth?  Or are you still playing this game at all?  I mean, after some point, you kind of gave up on telling me that my reasoning was flawed; I understand if you'd rather leave it to die, as you're really not accomplishing anything.
 * After edit conflicting twice and reading your srs bsns capslocking, I'm just going to give up at this point. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  06:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * However I do not: @Zesbeer:You do not care that you couldn't show up any factual arguments and you blamed Raine for NPA when he was showing how you were clearly wrong. Next time read shard's "how to lose an argument" section (user:shard (page history)) before ever trying to argue here. Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 06:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

moved this to my talk page because it seems to have way more to do with me then her, any way i stooped arguing back because of how ridiculous raines arguments were. and was pulling shit that was completely unrelated. if you want me to point out what i am talking about i will but as of right not i dont feel like it. also you atomaticly lose an argment when you call the other person stupid. L2 fallacies-- Zesbeer 07:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me hold your hand and walk you through this like a small child.
 * You said:
 * besides 600 smite what else do smite monks have: nothing.....
 * roj is needed so those of us who want to play a smite monk have a viable option.
 * also if your stupid enough to stand in roj in pvp then you deserve to die from it.
 * also flags are good or soo i hear.-- Zesbeer 04:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)"
 * That is all you said in that post. I responded to the first and second portions of that by listing a large number of things that smiting prayers offer other than Ray of Judgment.  You later went on to say that you were specifically referring to elites, but that makes no difference whatsoever because I also referred to Balthazar's Pendulum, another good Smiting Prayers elite.
 * In your next post, you said the following:
 * also if they neff it in the way you suggest bye bye me ever playing my monk again.-- Zesbeer 07:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC) -- Zesbeer 07:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't specifically respond to either of these at length, but inferred a response to the former when I said, in the same post with my previous responses, "Before you QQ about how terrible everything else in Smiting Prayers is, so you're going to stop playing it because monks have only one attribute line (this was sarcasm and should have been obvious), at least get your facts straight. People have run smite monks/rits/mesmers for a while now, and for good reasons", which meant "that's a silly reason to stop playing monk".
 * You then went on to say, in response to Mith saying that the bug should be fixed:
 * [the skill being bugged] is the only reason why people bring it right now.-- Zesbeer 08:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't respond to this at all, but it was discussed at length by Mith, Boro, and Gordon Ecker.
 * However, your next post interested me:
 * miss my point more plz -- Zesbeer 21:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thinking that I'd missed something, I reread the topic and, after verifying that everything you'd said had been responded to (thus leaving no point to have been missed), I posted a detailed explanation of exactly how everything you'd said had, in fact, been responded to.
 * i was 1 referring to elites and builds in general for both pvp and pve
 * 2 i realize that there are other skills in the line but a lot of people enjoy playing roj.
 * also i noted 600 smite so that should be a CLEAR indication to you that i know that there are other useful skills that use smite.
 * 3 key word STAND did i say knockdown? or snared? no
 * 4 read what the other person in this thread said I was asking this because what if I do some vanquishing with my h/h and they fail to recognize the RoJ as an AoE spell and they get wiped. -- Zesbeer 21:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already addressed that first point earlier in this post, so I won't do so again. However, it should be noted that that is of no relation to the original post of the topic.  I later address the second point there by saying, in what should have been obvious sarcasm, "A lot of people enjoyed playing Endurance. That makes it okay!".  The comment about 600/smite, I address with a short simile comparing niche use of skills like Sliver Armor to more broad use skills like those that I named and Ray of Judgment itself, stating that the two aren't really comparable (and consequently that naming 600/smite as a valid "smiting prayers build" is of no relation to anything else in the section that you claim to have knowledge of by furnishing that example).  In another round of obvious sarcasm, I say, "Snared people aren't standing, true story." in response to that fourth point.  And finally, to your righteous attempt at re-railing a derailed topic, I point out that almost nothing that you've said up to this point is of any relation to the original post, including your earlier points in that same post.
 * But while I'm typing that, you say to Boro:
 * also at boro, i didn't say i was going to "leave the game" i said i would stop playing my monk. also it should be clear to you that anet dost want the game to be balanced and if they did skills wouldn't see super nerffs and super buffs. -- Zesbeer 21:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now, while the rest of my post had been in direct response to things that you had said, I misinterpret your "dost" to mean "does" instead of "doesn't", and so respond wrongfully to that. Due to my misinterpretation of that, you say:
 * /facepalm put more words in my mouth.-- Zesbeer 22:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * At that, I apologize for my misunderstanding and correct your statement that I was "putting words in your mouth", saying that it was a translation issue rather than one of malicious intent. You call this a personal attack and stop attempting to argue.  Others (including Adrin, Boro, and Lilondra) tell you that you're wrong, but instead of pointing out any issue in their understanding, you dismiss them with:
 * \DO NOT CARE.-- Zesbeer 06:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I then give up, Boro corrects you again, and you move the topic. Finally, you say:
 * moved this to my talk page because it seems to have way more to do with me then her,
 * any way i stooped arguing back because of how ridiculous raines arguments were.
 * and was pulling shit that was completely unrelated.
 * if you want me to point out what i am talking about i will but as of right not i dont feel like it.
 * also you atomaticly lose an argment when you call the other person stupid. L2 fallacies-- Zesbeer 07:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To the second, third, and fourth points, I write this epic post clearly detailing how very wrong you are. To the fifth, I have the conversation currently going on on my talk page explaining that I didn't call you stupid anywhere in any post that I made.
 * Now where am I wrong? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  07:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

page brake
Ok now ill show you what i am talking about and be as clear as i possibly can be.
 * First of all i know what i have said.
 * i think trying to shape the gargle spewing from your mouth into words is a personal attack. i don't care what anyone else says. and to answer you question yes i do know what unintelligible means and i know what a personal attack is.
 * to make this easy for you im just going to take your wall of text and respond.
 * Let me hold your hand and walk you through this like a small child.


 * Yet another personal attack
 * You said:
 * besides 600 smite what else do smite monks have: nothing.....
 * roj is needed so those of us who want to play a smite monk have a viable option.
 * also if your stupid enough to stand in roj in pvp then you deserve to die from it.
 * also flags are good or soo i hear.-- Zesbeer 04:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)"
 * That is all you said in that post. I responded to the first and second portions of that by listing a large number of things that smiting prayers offer other than Ray of Judgment.  You later went on to say that you were specifically referring to elites, but that makes no difference whatsoever because I also referred to Balthazar's Pendulum, another good Smiting Prayers elite.


 * Balthazar's Pendulum yes its a good elite in certain areas.
 * In your next post, you said the following:
 * also if they neff it in the way you suggest bye bye me ever playing my monk again.-- Zesbeer 07:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't specifically respond to either of these at length, but inferred a response to the former when I said, in the same post with my previous responses, "Before you QQ about how terrible everything else in Smiting Prayers is, so you're going to stop playing it because monks have only one attribute line (this was sarcasm and should have been obvious), at least get your facts straight. People have run smite monks/rits/mesmers for a while now, and for good reasons", which meant "that's a silly reason to stop playing monk".


 * my bad here i do not enjoy healing or proting as a monk. and thus why i stopped playing my monk.
 * You then went on to say, in response to Mith saying that the bug should be fixed:
 * [the skill being bugged] is the only reason why people bring it right now.-- Zesbeer 08:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't respond to this at all, but it was discussed at length by Mith, Boro, and Gordon Ecker.
 * However, your next post interested me:
 * miss my point more plz -- Zesbeer 21:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thinking that I'd missed something, I reread the topic and, after verifying that everything you'd said had been responded to (thus leaving no point to have been missed), I posted a detailed explanation of exactly how everything you'd said had, in fact, been responded to.
 * i was 1 referring to elites and builds in general for both pvp and pve
 * 2 i realize that there are other skills in the line but a lot of people enjoy playing roj.
 * also i noted 600 smite so that should be a CLEAR indication to you that i know that there are other useful skills that use smite.
 * 3 key word STAND did i say knockdown? or snared? no
 * 4 read what the other person in this thread said I was asking this because what if I do some vanquishing with my h/h and they fail to recognize the RoJ as an AoE spell and they get wiped. -- Zesbeer 21:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already addressed that first point earlier in this post, so I won't do so again. However, it should be noted that that is of no relation to the original post of the topic.  I later address the second point there by saying, in what should have been obvious sarcasm, "A lot of people enjoyed playing Endurance. That makes it okay!".

The comment about 600/smite, I address with a short simile comparing niche use of skills like Sliver Armor to more broad use skills like those that I named and Ray of Judgment itself, stating that the two aren't really comparable (and consequently that naming 600/smite as a valid "smiting prayers build" is of no relation to anything else in the section that you claim to have knowledge of by furnishing that example). In another round of obvious sarcasm, I say, "Snared people aren't standing, true story." in response to that fourth point. And finally, to your righteous attempt at re-railing a derailed topic, I point out that almost nothing that you've said up to this point is of any relation to the original post, including your earlier points in that same post.
 * you note Balthazar's Pendulum how often do you really run a Balthazar's Pendulum monk. one team build that used it dose not make it a super amazing still or a reason to go smiting. and before roj was buffed to what it is now if you were playing pve and puging for some reason. and you said you were playing a smite monk no one would take you at least i would not. also with the nerff of smiters boon. why would you play a smiter monk?
 * i think 600 smite is a good smiting build you can use it in alot of areas. and here you clam that Balthazar's Pendulum is a good smiting elite that's funny because that also is a to quote you niche skills. and is part of the reason why i didn't mention it
 * situational
 * But while I'm typing that, you say to Boro:
 * also at boro, i didn't say i was going to "leave the game" i said i would stop playing my monk. also it should be clear to you that anet dose not want the game to be balanced and if they did skills wouldn't see super nerffs and super buffs. -- Zesbeer 21:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now, while the rest of my post had been in direct response to things that you had said, I misinterpret your "dost" to mean "does" instead of "doesn't", and so respond wrongfully to that. Due to my misinterpretation of that, you say:
 * /facepalm put more words in my mouth.-- Zesbeer 22:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * At that, I apologize for my misunderstanding and correct your statement that I was "putting words in your mouth", saying that it was a translation issue rather than one of malicious intent. You call this a personal attack and stop attempting to argue.

Others (including Adrin, Boro, and Lilondra) tell you that you're wrong, but instead of pointing out any issue in their understanding, you dismiss them with:
 * no i dont call that a personal attack what i call a personal attack is this:"trying to shape the gargle spewing from your mouth into words." a personal attack. also the putting words in my mouth was directed and more then just you.
 * \DO NOT CARE.-- Zesbeer 06:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * wrong, that was in responce to:"Zesbeer you lost your argument with the following sentence: "also if they neff it in the way you suggest bye bye me ever playing my monk again." That's translated into: Dont fix it because It's the only reason I run a monk. which is: Don't fix it because I abuse it. See? and:its the only reason why people bring it right now. it needs to be fixed anyway. It will still remain as a viable nuke.Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] which is more putting words in my moth. also i never calmed it would be come a non viable nuke. i simply said that people would stop using the skill."
 * I then give up, Boro corrects you again, and you move the topic. Finally, you say:
 * moved this to my talk page because it seems to have way more to do with me then her,


 * '''i also moved this topic for the reason that wyn says this "Please take it to the Skill Feedback pages if you are going to continue."
 * any way i stooped arguing back because of how ridiculous raines arguments were.


 * at that time i did not know that you were joking about a few things for some reason.
 * and was pulling shit that was completely unrelated.
 * if you want me to point out what i am talking about i will but as of right not i dont feel like it.
 * also you automatically lose an argument when you call the other person stupid. L2 fallacies-- Zesbeer 07:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To the second, third, and fourth points, I write this epic post clearly detailing how very wrong you are. To the fifth, I have the conversation currently going on on my talk page explaining that I didn't call you stupid anywhere in any post that I made.
 * Now where am I wrong? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  07:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * also you don't have a conversation about "explaining that I didn't call you stupid anywhere in any post that I made" its about if what you said was a personal attack. and to me it was and me being the person who received the comment and i know how i felt about it. and for me its a personal attack because i think i have mentioned this before but i am dyslexic and spelling and grammar are not a easy thing for me so that would be a personal attack.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, if you are dyslexic wouldn't it be an understandable statement of fact that your typing can be difficult to understand? The definition of a personal attack isn't based off of whether or not the person was offended as that would allow anything to be defined as a personal attack. Misery  10:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still surprised this conversation is still going on... [[Image:User_Dero_Dero's_Sig.png‎‎ |18px]]Dero Ahmonati 18:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It isn't. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  18:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)