User talk:J.Kougar/Archive4

FYI on Purple Paw Print
This is just a quick FYI for anyone who might think I copied the image I just made for my signature, or that might think I copied the idea for it from another user. This is not the case. I actually have a small purple paw-print similar to the one now in my signature, tattooed on the left side of my groin, just above the hairline. It's been there for years, and I've also used a purple paw-print with that shade of purple on many many things of mine for even longer than I've had the tattoo. So yea, incase anyone is wondering, I'm not copying anyone else with it, and any similarities of it to the user signature images of others is purely coincidence. I will probably size it down a little soon though ~  J.Kougar   15:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Testing smaller version. ~ J.Kougar [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif]] 15:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

GWW:NPA and Gaile's page
GWW:NPA applies on all pages, and as Gaile has pointed out, and is quite valid, individual points really are more in place on the pages for those items, not on her talk page. Please do not abuse talk pages to attempt to "force" your agenda, Gaile is not required to respond to your comments. You consider it being blunt, many others consider it harassment - and your insistence on weaving in personal attacks does very little to help your points and quite a lot of make people want to dismiss you as someone who really doesn't care about others or the game, but rather just their own twisted goals. So consider that as my personal comments, as far as my sysop role goes, consider this an official warning regarding NPA violations. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not that I have to second this, but I am in complete agreement with Aiiane here. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 00:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, well, if people cannot see that I'm only looking out for the welfare of a game that I've invested well over a thousand dollars in, well more than six thousand hours playing, and countless amounts of time on fan sites, forums, and wikis posting information and images for the betterment of the community, then it's really not my fault that they are so ignorant. It's clear that Izzy doesn't know how to do his job, the proof is in his posts and the current start of the game, and it's also clear to anyone that Gaile cannot handle the stress of her job and remain professional, thus, it's not a good thing for her to be doing, and untimely, both end up doing more harm than good to the game.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  00:38, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ...and yes, I know Gaile isn't required to respond to me, and as many times as I've pointed out her mistakes and such, I don't blame her for not liking me very much or wanting to reply to anything I say, but in many instances her simply acknowledging something in a professional manner of "Thank you for your feedback, your continued support is greatly appreciated" instead of just ignoring anything that she doesn't view as positive praise for the game, or talk about mini-pets... would really go miles to helping her image and letting people know that they are at least being heard when it comes to their concerns about a game they hold dear. ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  00:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So you say she ignores anything that isn't praise for the game/minipets?
 * 
 * All of that, taken only from the items currently on her talk page, not including archives or cases where she's responded to something not on her talk page, which she does often. All of them things not praise for the game, and none of them about minipets. You've simply chosen to tune out anything that doesn't match your preconceived notions. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Since you seem so adamant on how shitty everyone at anet is, why don't you show us another game that has a better community relations department or skill balances than this one? Lord Belar 00:46, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I really haven't time to compile such a massive list, but even off the top of my head I can say World of Warcraft... and I hate the game. The graphics are horrid, the every day grind is just as bad as the title grind in GW:EN, and the lack of customibility is truly awful.  However, they do have in game people to contact for rule violations, and they do listen to their customers and balance skills only after extensive testing, so at least that something.  It's odd that Guild Wars seems to have everything that WoW does not, and lack everything positive that WoW does have.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  00:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The majority opinion of WoW priests would probably disagree with you. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * WoW? You're joking, right? They have no customer relations and they never balance skills. Ask 10 people who play WoW, and see hoW many of them agree with you. Lord Belar 01:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Everyone I know plays WoW, and when I tell them about the latest screw-ups or mis-nerfs in Guild Wars they just laugh and either tell me they are glad they got out when they did, or that they never got into Guild Wars to begin with. Sure, WoW has issues too, but all the WoW players I know are still inclined to agree that they have it better than the GW players, even with all the flaws I pointed out earlier.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  01:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Though, as you know I agree with you about ANET to some extent, Blizzard has almost ten times the staff as ANET. Blizzard is frikking huge, dude, lol. ArenaNet has only a few hundred employees. Though I gree that more than one person should be handling skill balance (as it is critical to gameplay), and more than five (as seen on the credits) persons should be in the CR field (thanks to the 4 million players to answer to), the fact is, ANET does not have the manpower to allocate more persons to those areas. -- Counciler 01:22, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

On and Belar, about your last comment on Gaile's page before we were asked to move it here, it really doesn't matter how 'bad' I or any other customers are, because we aren't the ones being paid to be nice and handle the customer issues, Gaile is. People need to expect more from her. ~   J.Kougar  01:16, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but you are getting the privilege of playing their game. Lord Belar 01:21, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Because he paid for it. -- Counciler 01:23, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * He also signed away any rights in the EULA. Lord Belar 01:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Did he sign away his right to complain? No. Just because he signed the EULA does not, and never will, mean that he has to kiss ass. I am not sure where you come from, but in my country and ArenaNet's county, we take pride in being able to legally bitch about stuff. Get used to it. -- Counciler 01:28, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That said, the rules of the wiki that were formulated by the community, not ArenaNet, state that one may bitch about the game, about content created by individuals, but may not insult individuals themselves. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey thats all fine and swell. I don't dispute that one bit. He may not be allowed to insult the individual, but it does not change the fact that he CAN complain and whine about them. That's all I'm saying. The way i am interpreting the rules here, and I may be wrong; is this:


 * FORBIDDEN: "Gaile is a dumbshit who cannot do her job."
 * ALLOWED: "I do not like Gaile one bit, or the way she does her job. I believe that she should be replaced." -- Counciler 01:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * However, his comments, however well hidden, tend towards the former rather than the latter. Lord Belar 01:38, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thankfully I have far to much tact to say something like that. :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  01:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "Comments should not be personalized and should be directed at content and actions rather than people."
 * "It is as unacceptable for anyone to attack a user with a history of foolish or boorish behavior, or even one who has been subject to disciplinary action as it is to attack any other user. The Guild Wars Wiki encourages a positive online community: people make mistakes, but they are encouraged to learn from them and change their ways. Personal attacks are contrary to this spirit and damaging to the continued growth of the wiki."
 * That doesn't jive with policy, Counciler. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ahh, thank you for the correction, Aiiane.
 * EDIT: So would it be allowed if he said "I do not like any of the work Gaile/Izzy has been doing. I think it has been done incorrectly, and is of poor quality."? -- Counciler 01:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * By current policy, no, it would not be allowed, because it is not directed at content, but rather at a person. If someone says "I don't like how this or that was done", then one is directing it at specific actions or content, but if one simply says "I don't like how this person does things in general" it's directed at individuals. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 02:23, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, and that's pretty much what I did say. I explained very clearly what I saw as an issue with the game, and why I thought it was an issue, and then I pointed out some proof to backup my statments and concluded with helpful suggestions on how to improve and resolve the problems.  :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  01:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think "pretty much" would have to be interpreted rather broadly to cover what you did say. Lord Belar 01:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my habit of being thorough and inclusive of all details has once again forced me to be a bit more longwinded that was perhaps necessary. I did want to thoroughly explain what it was I had issues with, and why, and then to offer up suggestions.  Not something so easily summarized in a paragraph, unless of course you are so crude as to say 'gaile bad, izzy bad, they no do no bout skills n game, they sux and shuld gets fired' but thankfully even when inebriated I don't fail that badly at conveying my message, unless of course it is to persons with limited attention spans.  ;)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  02:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was not refering to the lack of details in your summary, but rather the "helpful suggestions." Lord Belar 02:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't feel that either having Izzy play more in normal game play with all the classes to get a better understanding of the skills, or simply adding in additional staff (who are more experienced) to assist him with the balances are good suggestions? What about the problem Gaile has with stress and the requirements of her job?  Since the job comes with certain requirements, and she cannot meet those requirements without undue harm to herself, should she not consider another position that she might find more enjoyable?  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  02:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that Izzy needs to play more PvE, and that additional balancing staff would be good. However, suggesting that Gaile/Izzy be fired immediately, and presenting such suggestions in the blatantly offensive way that you do is most certainly not helpful. Also, Gaile might have fewer problems if you and others like you ceased being so consistently rude and obnoxious, and instead contributed valuable suggestions in a clear, friendly manner without the endless barbed comments, as well as understanding that anet is a relatively small corporation and can't fix all problems or respond to everyone immediately. Lord Belar 02:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I guarantee Gaile wouldn't magically get better if people stopped flaming her. Plus, she's community rep; inability to react to flaming is just more proof that she's unsuited for the job. - Auron 02:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't say she would, I was pointing out that flaming the community rep while claiming the best interests of the game as a whole was completely illogical, as well as only good for demonstrating that while Gaile may be bad, screaming insults and pointing fingers is not a good or effective way to show that. Lord Belar 02:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Fluctuating Reputation

 * Not that you care Miss Grey, but since the issue did concern you before you discarded it, I did respond to you as was appropriate. I don't however expect you do to the same, as it's been made more than obvious by now that you avoid responding to anything I say deliberately.  ;)  Sokay, I don't expect any better.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  17:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No offence meant Kougar but Gaile is not required to respond to you, and the way you addres her is probably part of the reason for avoiding discussion, Dev bashing is not appreciated by anyone, especially Devs. We know from past experience any bugs that are reported will surely be dealt with as and when resources are available to fix them. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 18:08, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It wasn't a bug, he just didn't understand how the rep point bonuses worked. --Deathwing 18:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * However he was very aggressive about it too Gaile, and this it not the first time either. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 18:12, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually not getting bonuses or rather not having a boss death count towards a boss bonus still seems like a bug to me, and yea, it's no secret that I think Gaile's complete and utter lack of knowledge about the game is just as bad as Izzy's lack of knowledge of the skills (the guy thought you could use Shatter Delusions to remove non-mesmer hexes like Shadow Fang (link), and that 'Ranger Spike' was something he had to worry about on an interrupt skill like Disrupting Shot (link), even though it's not even remotely possible) and that she should not be in a position such as she is with the lack of knowledge and profeshinilism that she constantly displays, but that aside we already know that most bugs never get addresses unless there is a big enough fuss about them. Heck, look at all the armor clipping issues that are constantly ignored and always have been.  So yea, I'm overly critical of people who don't have a clue as to how to do their jobs and in cases like this, greatly harm something I enjoy playing, as they do with their constant screw-ups.  However, I guess I should apoligise to Gaile and Izzy for pointing out their utter ignorance of the game and letting more people know that they don't know what they are doing, but I happen to think the players have a right to know what or rather who, two of the game's biggest problems are.  :p  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  21:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * These people are here to help you and other players, they are not here to be your personal liasons, address every problem you have. I am sure they all spend a lot of their own free time trying to improve and better the game, yet all you concentrate on are negatives. Whilst you are entitled to your opinion, a little respect goes a long way when asking someone to do something for you. Until you have done either of their jobs I don't think you are in a position to criticise, personally I think they both do a great job, and are far more involved then any other online game I have played. Nobody is perfect, nobody here claims to be. And an insult disguised an apology, is still an insult. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 23:59, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I spent years in customer service, customer relations, and similar jobs for a few different companies, all of which included me having to listen to customers complain about their issues with our products/service and then remain calm and courteous, despite the vulgar insults and attacks upon my person, and do my best to answer their questions and address the issues as best I could, and then assure them that reports about any remaining issues were being sent to the appropriate people to be corrected as quickly and effectively as possible, pending further investigation. It may not always be easy to keep smiling at the customer when they are insulting you in every way imaginable, but it's just part of the job, and anyone who cannot manage to not take it personally and remain calm, collected, and courteous (no matter how big an a$$hole the customer is) really should not be putting themselves into a situation where they have to handle that.  People getting angry with Gaile for issues that don't seem to get reported and corrected seems to really bother her, and she's gone off on players countless times on the forums and such, and if she is so stressed out by it she really should take another position where she won't be stressing and giving herself more wrinkles.  The fact that she doesn't know much about the game, the skill, or the mechanics is just another issue to top it off.  She's a nice person and all, she's just not right for the job she has.
 * Izzy... well, I really don't know how he ended up being the person who balances the skills, but with him not knowing any more about the skills that he does, he really should not be the one sole person responsible for seeing that the skills are balanced. He tends to just nerf skills to the point that they are no longer playable, instead of tweaking them to make them workable but not usable in builds that exploit the skills in over-powered ways.  Granted, I don't think I'd make the best skill balancer at the moment either because I only know the majority of the skills, and while I have played every profession through multiple campaigns in PvE as well as used them all to some extent in PvP, I would not be comfortable balancing skills until I had played with all the skills for a little more understanding of them, so that I could recite the functionality of every skill off hand, instead of just the majority of them.  The fact that Izzy seems to not know even a small fraction of the skills and even less about the functionality of how a lot of the skills work with the game mechanics, really just goes to show that someone who had logged more hours playing every class, should really be doing the job he is, or at the very least a second person with more skill knowledge should be assigned to work with him.  I know he and Gaile play the game to, but blasting through areas with the dev only 'Bam' skills doesn't really equate to actual play in the normal and hard modes of the game.  If Izzy was actually a little more familiar with the skills and how they work, he might actually be able to un-nerf many of the skills he destroyed to break up over-powered builds that no longer exist, or are not viable for one reason or another.  The problem is, when he doesn't understand a skill or know how it works, he tends to listen to his friends who either know as little about it as he does, or are PvP only players with no realistic view of how the skill can be used outside of a specific cookie-cutter build that they might have used once after seeing it on some fan-site.  I know that his aim seems to be to please the majority of the ill-mannered 13-year-olds in PvP who's mommy or daddy might but them another expansion at some point, instead of the hard-core players who have invested a lot more time and money into the game... but despite whatever reasoning the folks are ArenaNet have for playing their priorities where they do, they really should consider replacing or adding to their current key staff positions to better the game for all players.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  00:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I see you present the perfect example of an "a$$hole customer." If you don't like Izzy's nerfs, then maybe you'd prefer to play something with no balance whatsoever? Nerf keep the game from having to many overpowered skills, since you obviously haven't figured that out already. Also, stop violating NPA. Lord Belar 00:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're going to respond to something, at least take the time to read it all and find out what it's about, less you make a fool of yourself responding and assuming that the poster is complaining about something that he is not. :)  I know Nerfs are an important part of the game, and I have no issue with that.  The issue I have is that Izzy doesn't know the skills well enough to be balancing them, which is evident if you read my above posts and followed the links to a few such examples.  :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]  J.Kougar  00:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I did read the entire thing, you're the one making a fool of himself by continuosly spouting bullshit and trolling on Gaile's talk page and elsewhere. If Izzy isn't qualified, then who is? You? Lord Belar 00:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well you just proved that you didn't read it, or you'd already have your answer. Sorry, I think I'll ignore further off-topic comments from you about this issue now.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Funny you should say that, because everyone I know including myself after having worked or working in a customer service or consumer relations job are generally a lot more courteous to other people in those positions. Making a complaint does not and should not have to equate insulting the person or people as a substitute to common courtesy. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 00:45, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's just something customers do, especially when their feedback falls on deaf ears. :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  00:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Feedback? Your bitching counts as feedback? Time for you to get a dictionary. Lord Belar 00:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Feedback (if you can call it that) is liable to fall in deaf ears when it has insults/digs/snide comments attached to it, or from someone who has used this technique in the past. Let us not forget and everything else that came with that revert war. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 00:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * lol, yes, that was amusing but crude... and as I explained many times was done for one reason, to draw massive attention to my page so that I could get a point aacross, and it worked. I know now that it was still pointless because the number of people with blind loyalty to the Gaile and Izzy fan-clubs is staggering and beyond anything I could have expected, and no matter how bad they screw-up noone will ever hold them accountable for anything and they will be reveared by the masses of teenagers as gameing gods.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Given that you and your toadies are the only ones who seem to think that Gaile and Izzy are doing a bad job, and you are in the vast minority of GW players, I don't think making baseless claims and crude insults will work. The reason your little stunt didn't work is that even if Gaile made as many "screw-ups " as you say, you have proved yourself worse in every way. Lord Belar 01:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It really doesn't matter how 'bad' I or any other customers are, because we aren't the ones being paid to be nice and handle the customer issues, Gaile is. People need to expect more from her.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:20, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, there have been and still are lots of people who see flaws in the ANet staff memebers. However, there are those who vandalise and start wars like this and those who don't. I prefer the latter ones. A calm discussion might actually have some positive results, this warring does not. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 01:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought this was a calm discussion. Sure, I'm guessing it got under the skin of a few people, but I know I haven't stoped smiling since I started posting it.  I don't let this sort of thing bother me or rule me up, don't see ahy anyone does.  Yes, there are issues, yes, they need to be addressed... but unless someone like me comes along and spells it out to the fan-boys who turn a blind eye to this sort of thing normally, it doesn't get noticed at all.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:20, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A sea's calm surface can have riptides underneath... and this one certainly does. As for "why you don't see why anyone else does"... perhaps you should consider that, then. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:23, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Please, take this to one of your individual talk pages, since this is becoming a conversation between two or three people, none of whom are Gaile. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, she'd never respond to anyone questioning her work. Just look at the archives, she'll dump anything questionable within hours if she doesn't like the subject and is online to do so. lol  Still, that's fine.  It can be taken to my talk page now.  :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And the war continues, hooray! More interesting reading to fill up my uneventful life! :) -- Counciler 01:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I do my best. Troll-bashing at its finest. :D Lord Belar 01:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Technically, troll bashing is also trolling, since it does not help the topic at hand. But hey, I'm here for the debates and controversy.... it's interesting. -- Counciler 01:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Now don't you feel silly Belar? Shot down again and again, you really should stup doing this to yourself.  ;)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As I have pointed out previously, I don't remember reading anything on the box for the game, stating that a-net staff will be on hand to answer all your problems/questions/complaints on fansites/forums or other communication methods. I consider it a bonus that they are here talking to us at all. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 01:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ditto. -- Counciler 01:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is, they do it all wrong. Not doing it at all might even be better conpaired to doing a halfarsed job that results in the wrong messages being sent back to the Devs, bugs being ignored, and changes being made o the game that the Devs think are what the majority want, when it's not the case.  The same can be said for one of Izzy's friends telling him that you can Ranger Spike with an interrupt skill like Disrupting Shot, and convincing him to nerf it as a result... when it was never a valid reason for a nerf and it was mearly Izzy's supposed friend making suggestions to further his own agenda against that skill or that class.  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This conversation is getting hilarious now, inventing conspiracy theories is just laughable. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 02:04, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the only other way to explain it is just pure ignorance. Forgive me for attempting to come up with an excuse for them as a way to soften the blow for their actions.  I guess it is just better to assume that neither of them knew anything about the game mechanics and have it over with?  ;)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  02:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ignorance, posting after work and just generally being tired/not thinking straight, attempting to remember 1 skill out of 1000 now in the game and getting it wrong once or twice - are you suggesting that humans need to be infallible to work for game companies, now? [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 02:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If it's being tired/not thinking straight, they tend to do it a bunch. Forgetting 1 skill out of 1000 is forgiveable, but don't pretend for an instant that the cases Kougar linked to are the only screwups they've made. There have been (lots) more, most of them on forums (GWG, GWO, TGH), so trying to refute his one or two most recent pieces of evidence is moot. They don't understand the game. They aren't good at playing it. Hell, they aren't even good at community relations (I guess Izzy doesn't have to be, but I never see Andrew Patrick posting on izzy's page as the CR). Calling for their immediate removal isn't too off-the-wall.
 * Remember that Guru thread that had JR's post of the year? That huge one that went into great detail about how and why the CRs were bad? JR posted the CR's job description in five (or six?) other companies, and listed how ANet's had failed. Sure, you might argue that ANet's job description is different, but it isn't that different. ANet has been putting in poorly-implemented stuff for a long time now (DoA, ATS, reward points, alliance battle maps in HA, dishonor points), just kind of showing that they've lost their grip. The only supporters of these poorly-implemented additions have rather low expectations in general and are quick to bash anyone who dares to suggest that ANet failed at any given task.
 * TBH; if you're happy with the game as it is, fine. Go away. We want to make the game better, and in doing so, it's going to get better for you too; as long as you don't pester on talk pages nonstop. Nobody once has refuted Kougar's assertions (mostly because they've been formed by years of watching ANet slip more and more into failure), which is quite the testament to his argument. Sure, he's a dick (like me, mirite?), but ignoring his argument because of it would be incredibly foolish on anyone's part. Keep in mind; we're pissed off customers. ANet created a great game 2+ years ago and have just been making it worse and worse; why are you defending its plunge into failure? Cite Kougar for NPA if you want (or hell, try to refute his argument, that'd be amusing), but if you have nothing to say, don't spew crap for the sake of saying something; it just wastes everyone's time. - Auron 03:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The thing is, no one (or at least no one I really pay much attention to) is saying to ignore his arguments - they're simply asking him to post them without the fluff that distracts from "improving the game" and moves into "being vindictive". Sure, being dramatic gets attention - but it also tends to distract from the actual point. Posting arguments that you know will be ignored because no one wants to read writing that drips of revulsion wastes everyone's time as well. Being right isn't enough, effectively communicating is necessary too. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 03:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you ask him to be nice and he won't, that's his problem. Don't worry about it, he's a big boy; he can take care of himself. - Auron 03:23, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I never said anything about him being wrong, because, for the most part he is right. There has been a lot of poorly implemented things, but there has also been many well implemented things. Did the reward points suck? Of curse they did. Then again, were they pushed for time, pushed for more new releases? Yes. For the time/money constraints, and for free content, they did a passable job with many of the things that you mention. Could they have done better? Certainly. They also could have done a worse job, or not put anything new into the game without 6 months of development and make you pay for it. Given that they manage to produce new campaigns/expansions every 6 months, add new, free content, fix bugs and balance skills all on a tight budget given they don't charge everyone 15$ a month to play is pretty good. It's not perfect by any means, but now that we have 2 years before the next major release, maybe they'll go back a fix their mistakes. I don't mind anyone who points out these obvious problems, as long as they can do so in a moderately civil manner. Oh, Kougar is way more of a dick than you, Auron. You at least can make a good argument without degenerating to pointless, trivial insults. :D Lord Belar 03:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I hate idiots. I hate this section. I hate people who profusely spew contradictory statements. gfg Readem 04:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Troll Alert. If you hate this section, why are you here? Talk about contradictory... -- Counciler 08:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I seriously doubt ArenaNet is going to go back to GW1 and fix things. They have already plainly stated there will be no more major updates... and frankly, that is exactly what GW1 needs right now. You cannot fix an internal hemorrhage with a band-aid, you need surgery. Speaking of major re-workings of game mechanics, has anyone heard updates on the Mesmer reworking? -- Counciler 08:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Ya, something about nerfing MoR, buffing other elites (esurge, possibly HEV and others), and shortening the recharge on non-elites (probably like Shame) so they see use on non-mor bars. - Auron 15:07, 8 October 2007 (UTC)