Talk:Armor rating

A lot of links are pointing at Armor which really needed to be disambiguated cause it was covering so much. I pasted in the information from that article which looks like it is more detailed than what was here already. It might have a lot of stuff twice now though. - B e X   04:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted people to know an interesting fact... a +5 armor mod in most cases can be more effective than a +30hp mod, heres how ive come to this conclusion. +40ar=50% less dmg, 5ar=? 5/40=.125 x .5 =0.0625 X 100 = 6.25% and 6.25% of the average health(480) .0625x480=30hp which does the same as a +30hp mod, however most people will be healing so it will reduce more dmg over time, and once 30hp is gone, it is gone, so that makes a+5 armor mod more effective on a weapon than +30hp, also if you have even more hp due to a superior vigor rune, a armor mod will prove even more effective than a hp mod on a weapon... --Arrythmia 19:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * just wanted to say that this is an example of how much damage is reduced if u go from full health to 0hp over time without armor ignoring damage and degen, also im not sure if its fully correct as i dont think a-net has released any formulas regarding damage, although level does seem to change the damage. also as for the damage table, how were these numbers confirmed? did someone just use a spell that does 100 dmg? if so higher damage amounts would be more accurate as lower damage amounts are rounded more.not to dumb it down but for ex:if your taking 23.5% less damage thats 24 less dmg taken, and if u were to take 1000 dmg thats 235 less dmg taken-- Arrythmia [[Image:User Arrythmia arrythmia.sig.JPG|18px|]] 23:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Armour Cap
I know the cap is +25 for stacking skills, which basically makes more than one worthless, but what if someone has cracked armour? Is the cap then +45? It should be but this whole nerf doesn't make sense so I doubt it. 58.110.139.185 10:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

What I want to know is: I have avatar of balthazar, is there any point in having insignia armor bonuses at all? Assuming I can keep avatar of balthazar constantly on(eternal aura). Mortsu 18:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Insignia armor bonuses do NOT count in the cap, not 100% sure but about 95% sure I am. Same goes for runes, but remember they do NOT count up on eachother, not really relevant but lots of people make that mistake. --Master of darkness 16:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

the maximum amour bonus is like +104, i think thats kinetic at 16 and obby flesh at 16, thats still pretty good making the maximum amour 196(+16)(212) (8 less from only 14 for warrior with glyph) 100 vs physical warrior insignias 20 from obby flesh and 76 from kinetic armor) with sentential it makes physical and elemantal same, i assume u can get higher with ranger, 115 vs earth(bonus+earthbound), the 1 ele skill that makes it earth dmg, obby flesh and kinetetic, makes a maximum of 219! making rangers better tanks that warriors. with a 87% or something dmg redutionAnnoying And Deadly 23:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * srry its actually 92-93.5% reduction for rangers if they can maintain kinetic, somehow spamming a spell every 8 seconds, makes a perfect tank that no one has to heal, 12 earth and you have 103 pts to spend on wutever Annoying And Deadly 00:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * +3(not meeting requirments) from shield makes it an 93.7 so a 94% dmg redution makes 200 dmg into a shocking 12!Annoying And Deadly 00:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * +7 elemental amour from weapon suffix makes max armor actually 229

slight problem with that in that the maximum armor bonus from skills is +25. So although kinetic would give +80 armor, no other skills such as obsidian flesh would work. Besides if it did I would have used armor of earth for more armor. Mortsu 21:24, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Nope, its using obby flesh first so u get +20 then +76, the 76 is applied before the cap hits, armour cap was to prevent the maximum 97% damage reduction, still only like 94%, why the obsessed over the 3%?03:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Wrong. +76 would go over the cap by itself, which means it's the only one that counts. Skills cannot rise your armor more than 25, except in cases where a single skill makes it higher. Then the skill with the highest amount applies, but only that one. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 09:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "You can get to 216 easily with max armor+Sentinel's Insignias+ another tank doing "Save Yourselves!" + a max shield that meets its requirements."--Me, I think this would work more efficiently instead of a ranger taking earth damage. A warrior with 13 Strength and +20 armor insignias > A ranger [70 armor] with a +15 armor insignia. Having passed the hammer of judgement on them with the whole "Only one skill" thing, you can rely on Save Yourselves. Kinetic and Save Yourselves are really conditional though... I think Save Yourselves is more favored though because it can be spammed easily if you're using the paragon elite that gives you + adrenaline, and then "For Great Justice!" that might even be overboard if you're looking to spam it.--Ʀєʟʟɑ 17:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

a single skill cannot raise your amour over 25 right,why is there +24 amour skills, to allow this to happen to still give another buff, any1 know how we can contact anet for more info on this?Annoying And Deadly 04:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It said a single skill can make it go above the cap, but having more than one armor skill is useless. Only the highest armor bonus applies. Read what Anja wrote, and what the person who made the article wrote.--Ʀєʟʟɑ 17:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Are Drake Skin and Armor of Salvation affected by the armor stacking cap? What about Cloak of Faith and Shielding Branches? I'd like to state the maximum attainable armor rating in the article. It's 248 without blessings or consumables (A Ranger with a weapon of Shelter, a shield with a +10 vs or conditional +10 inscription, armor with a +15 vs. insignia and "Save Yourselves!"). -- Gordon Ecker 06:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And thus with consumables it's another +20 (shielding branches), +10 (armor of salvation), +5 (drake kabob), +10 (Cloak of Faith). This adds up for a total of 293AL which is a damage reduction of roughly 98.236%

Excuse my daftness here, but if I understand it correctly... the +25 Armor cap only applies to Skills? And Shields, Focus, Weapons, Insignias and Consumables are totally ignored for the purpose of checking if you break this cap? As I have understood, does the cap only trigger on skills, and not on consumables and insignas and the rest that you can use to gain a bit more armor. (81.235.176.115 15:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC))

Clean up
What needs to be cleaned up on this article? I don't find a relevant formatting page, so I am in the dark. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Tsafran.
 * Because I consolidated two articles into one, there might be information that is duplicated. The formatting is fine, I just wanted familiar with the mathematical side to check if anything was said twice myself. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 01:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand the formula... can someone please explain it to me?--Master of darkness 18:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Initial damage times 0.5 times armor rating - 60 / 40 &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  02:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

but when I do 50*0.5((164-60)/40) i get 65 out of it... so i would get 15 more damage when I have 164 armor?--Master of darkness 18:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC) 10:45, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You can't have 164 damage, there's a limit to the maximum amount of armor you can have. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  16:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

What if I am a warrior or paragon with 80 armor, + 16 from the shield, +10 from an insigna and +58 from armor of earth? ;), but you didnt answer my question anyway... --Master of darkness 18:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think the Armor of Earth would count for the entire +58. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  03:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

... I think it does... "Armor enhancing skills do not stack beyond +25 armor. This means a single skill can still bypass this cap, but using further armor enhancing skills will have no effect." and the +25 armor only affects skills so you can not have +50 armor from a skill with 20 armor and a skill with 30 armor then it will be 30 armor. But actually i'm not interested if it is possible to have 164 armor, I just want to know if the formula is right, and if it is why does 50 damage with 164 armor give 65 damage output? Or did i do something wrong?? So plz answer the formula question...--Master of darkness 10:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The problem is in the interpretation of the formula that was written. It is not DMG * 0.5 * ((AR-60)/40). It's hard to see tell that it's superscript but the formula is DMG * (0.5 raised to the power of ((AR-60)/40). That would make your example of 50 damage to a character with 164 armor become 50 * 0.5 raised to the 2.6th power for a final damage of between 8 and 9. Hope this helps. I have no idea if the formula calculates this right based on the game, I'm just helping with the math. :) Thefount 21:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks man! This helped a lot! why didnt i see it was a little more up... again: Thank you!--Master of darkness 20:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * max is 222, try tanking that in RA thats 6/100dmg Annoying And Deadly 00:27, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

wich max is 222? armor? --Master of darkness 14:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a cap, you can't get to 222 armour actually. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  06:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You can get to 216 easily with max armor+Sentinel's Insignias+ another tank doing "Save Yourselves!" + a max shield that meets its requirements. Well, the only way this could really be held indefinetly is if you had two other tanks spamming that on you. Having said this, and "Save Yourselves!" being the key player, you can't have this much in RA--Ʀєʟʟɑ 17:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You can get more armor if you also get help from another guy using "Save Yourselves!" (+100), but use a Ranger (basic 70 vs all, +30vs elemental) instead with an elemental specific protecting insignia (+15), add a shield with an inscription with the same elemental damage reduing type (+10), a +7 vs elemental damage suffix for your one-handed weapon, and add other consumable PvE effects (though i don't know whether they count to the skill effects cap) being Drake Kabob (+5) and Armor of Salvation (+10) result in 247 armor against a specific elemental type. Though i don't know why the table on the article page shows damage redurction up to 279 armor, that number seems quite impossible to reach, at least since the one-skill-armor-cap update... &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 19:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The Formula really makes ne sense. The higher the armor the more the dmg. You can't calculate the dmg for armor lvl 60 and lvl 80 would only get 25% of dmg: 100%*0,5*(80-60)/40= 100%*0,5*20/40= 100%*0,5*0,5= 25%!!!! With lvl 100 you'd get 50%dmg: 100%*0,5*100-60)/40= 100%*0,5*40/40= 100%*0,5*1=50%!!!! The right formula would be: [FINAL DAMAGE]= [INITIAL DAMAGE]X 2^((60-[Armor Rating])/40) Kerigolas 19:51. 27 October 2008
 * Your calculations are off a bit. Let's take a target with 60 armor. It would be:
 * [Final Damage] = [Initial Damage] * (1/2)^((60-60)/40
 * (1/2)^((60-60)/40 = (1/2)^0 = 1
 * So, [Final Damage] = [Initial Damage] * 1, which is to be expected.
 * Let's take 100 armor (damage should be 1/2)
 * [Final Damage] = [Initial Damage] * (1/2)^((100-60)/40
 * (1/2)^((100-60)/40 = (1/2)^(40/40) = (1/2)^1 = 1/2
 * So, [Final Damage = [Initial Damage] * 1/2, which is to be expected. --JonTheMon 19:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Your Formula is the same as mine.^^
 * So, can someone plz change it to one of our Formulas? Kerigolas 18:19, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh sry, just figured, that its supposed to be JonTheMon's formula, but its hard do see, thats its 0.5^((AR-60)/40) and not 0.5*(AR-60)/40. Kerigolas 18:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Does the original formula on the article page make sense now? --JonTheMon 18:32, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * sry to bring this up again, but i also thought it was .5 * (([AL]-60)/40) as have others i talk to. Can someone change the formula to make the exponent a little more obvious?

Targets of higher levels
One thing on the article I didn't quite understand is the math for enemies of a higher level. If a level 20 character attacks a level 28 Chilling Wisp, for example...The baseline armor value of the monster would be increased by 2.5 AL x 8, so its baseline armor would be 80, not 60. It would then have an automatic damage reduction to 0.7 of damage even without extra armor. But if it had 10 armor, would the damage reduction be of a level 20 character with 90 armor, or would it be 0.84 (damage reduction for level 70) x 0.7 (baseline damage reduction for that monster)? Erasculio 15:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As it is multiplicative, i think either way would give the same answer. And I was under the assumption that monsters got 3AL/level, not 2.5 --JonTheMon 15:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, damage for +30 AL is .5946, damage for +20 AL is .7071, damage for +10 AL is .8409. .7071 * .8409 = .5946  --JonTheMon 15:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (EC) I'm just wondering if the difference in numbers I'm seeing is thanks to some kind of mistake or if it's just a matter of rounding the numbers. For example, I hit one of those level 28 enemies with a spell that was supposed to have done 26 earth damage; it did 18 damage instead. So the damage reduction is of 0.6923. That value doesn't exist in the table, though. So...
 * The monster may have 81 armor against earth damage, which would give a damage reduction of 0.6950. The difference in numbers could be just a matter of approximating the result.
 * If armor is increased by 2.5 by level (like this article currently says), then that monster would have a base armor level of 80, with a base damage reduction of 0.7071. It would then have an armor of...1? Maybe there's something wrong in the math. If the damage reduction considered 80 to be the baseline, there could be a different modifier, so 0.7071 . x = 0.6923. That modifier is 0.979...But there's no damage reduction like that, the closest thing would be 61 at 0.9828.
 * If armor is increased by 3.0 per level, then that monster would have a base armor level of 84, with a base damage reduction of 0.6598. But then, the damage done would have been higher than what should have happened...Unless there's a negative armor modifier of 3? Or there were a modifier so 0.6598 . x = 0.6923, which gives x = 1.049, a damage modifier that doesn't exist but is closer to 57 at 1.0534.
 * Any idea at what the problem is? It's likely a matter of just rounding the numbers, but I may be doing something wrong... Erasculio 16:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's probably 2.5/level, giving an armor boost of 20. By my calculations, 26 damage against +20AL is 18.385 damage, which would get rounded down to 18.  Calculations still seem intact. So: rounding error.  You could try using a bigger damage spell to reduce the rounding error. --JonTheMon 17:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Duh me, of course I should have considered that there is no fractional damage in Guild Wars (well, it is Factions and not Fractions : D). Thanks, that solved this issue. Erasculio 18:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Additional Armor skills
I know there's Watch Yourself...Dolyak Signet, Kinetic armor. There's a lot, Is there a list? What might also work is a "What links here" on the Armor article. Any help? --Amantis 04:08, 11 January 2009
 * i dont think such a page on wiki exists, might have to post around and get some1 that knows what their doing to make a page it would be a good addition to wiki --116.240.242.105 16:11, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * List_of_skills_by_related_subject? --JonTheMon 15:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The table
I'm being really pedantic but shouldn't the Head be at the top of the table? It's been a while since I've edited on wiki so I'd rather not play about with the table myself... --AlexEternal 15:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you clarify your request? Which table?  What should it look like? What's insufficient about the current table? --JonTheMon 17:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The first table, in-game it goes Head, Torso, Gloves, Legs, Feet, on the table it has the head at the bottom. Also, nice job on the speedy response O.o --AlexEternal 10:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The way that table is currently laid out, it emphasizes that the Torso is his the most often, followed by the legs, then head & hands & feet are hit equally, but the least often. So, rearranging it via how the in-game window looks might be useful, but then it loses the emphasis on which parts are most important. --JonTheMon 13:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

AL?
Whilst reading the overview as a newbie, I was following quite well how armor works. However I was taken aback by the abbreviation, 'AL'. What does this stand for? And shouldn't it be described before it is introduced? Stalks 19:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * AL = Armor Level. I think it's a Dungeons and Dragons term. But it's the same thing. --JonTheMon 19:02, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, the DnD term is AC for Armor Class. Lillium 21:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Terra tank question
I'm training an ele to be a future terra tank/raptor farmer, and i wanted to know, if I use first Obsidian Flesh,then Kinetic Armor/Armor of Earth, do they both apply? Thanks.-KlinH4xx0r
 * No, they don't, because the combined bonus would take the armor over +25. So only Armor of Earth/Kinetic Armor would apply. 145.94.74.23 13:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Skills affecting only one part of the body
I've read in some guides that touches hit only the chest, and attack skills never hit the hands. HAve anyone tried to test those things? MithTalk 16:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've not heard of anything like that, but it'd be interesting to see that in action with skills like Mind Burn/Mind Freeze/etc. -- Alex [[Image:User_AlexEternal_Mr_Bear.jpg|19px]]Eternal 10:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmed that spells DO hit different parts based on the chance. No extensive testing, just a bit of observation vs Lava Imps using Sentinel Insig on 3 pieces, none on 1, and Lieutenant's on boots. Received damage ranging from 37 -> 74, shown in seperate packets. Received 74 and the mid-number (have to check again) very rarely. RandomJF 07:09, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 48, 62, 81 vs Ether Seal Mind Shock. Received 62 and 81 on same activation. RandomJF 07:56, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've heard that it used to be that projectiles never hit the hands, but that it was fixed at an unknown time. Manifold 20:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Creatures and shields
Do all sword and axe-wielding warrior and paragon creatures use max armor rating shields? Even the high and low leveled? I know Blade of Corruptions don't have a shield despite being sword users, but that's probably an oversight. Manifold 02:17, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Armor Rating Tables
its cool that you can see what armor a creature has, but there are some kind of dmg missing: most important of all -> holy dmg.
 * The only types "missing" are dark, chaos, shadow, and holy. Dark is armor ignoring, chaos and shadow are "generic" types, and if you want to know about holy damage, everything listed on Undead without a 1 next to it takes double damage, as well as necromancer minions. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 19:34, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually shadow damage is armor ignoring, not dark. You got the two mixed up. Daeheru 02:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Mysticism
If you had an armor increasing skill that gave +24 armor along with 13 Mysticism, would you have 107 armor or would it be capped at 95? J usting  6   11:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Only stacked armor from effects is considered for the armor cap. Anything that doesn't come from environment or skills, gets added before adding armor from skills, and if a single skill goes over the cap, it counts too. You could use kinetic armor to have insanely high armor. But then you'll have to make sure it doesn't get stripped by enemy enchantment removal. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 17:37, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Do we have 0 armor with no armor equipped?
Or does our armor modify/overwrite our base armor determined by level?Yumiko ^,~ 05:33, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, you have 0 armor if you don't have any armor bonuses (including your equipped armor). User Judas Sig.pngudas 19:13, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Highest AL possible
Just curious. What is the highest AL you can get?

Doing some maths i came to 238 against elemental dmg on a ranger.
 * Ranger armor:100
 * Say..Stormbound:15
 * Shield with +10/lightning:19
 * I Am Unstoppable!:24
 * Feigned Neutrality:80


 * Makes 100+15+19+24+80=238

Anyone can think of sth higher? 82.95.65.117 12:20, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A few of us have been doing a lot of armor research the last few days. Currently, I am writing an article on Armor Calculation. It's not finished yet, but I can tell you that the game mechanics don't work that simply. But I think the highest you can get is something like:


 * Ranger Armor: 100
 * Stormbound Insignia: 15
 * Inscribable Shield of which you meet the req: 16 don't meet the req (R/Me): 8
 * "Riders on the Storm" inscription on that shield: 10
 * "Save Yourselves!": 100
 * "I Am Unstoppable!": 24
 * Illusionary Weaponry with 7 illusion skills (1 slot is for IAU): 35
 * This would total to 300 292 armor. User Judas Sig.pngudas 12:48, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * er, wouldn't IW be overridden by SY? --JonTheMon 13:36, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Add in maxed Rebel Yell. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 13:38, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I found out today that IW, like IAU, adds its armor after all caps and effects. User Judas Sig.pngudas 13:44, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe Rebel Yell is included in the armor cap, and therefore nullified by Save Yourselves. User Judas Sig.pngudas 13:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Curious...how u meet the req with a R/Me? 82.95.65.117 14:34, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point :D. 292 Armor it is! User Judas Sig.pngudas 14:54, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * From a friendly warrior of course; you can't use SY! on yourself anyway as it only affects other party members. -- Hong 15:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * He meant the req on the shield, which I had marked as met before I struck it through. User Judas Sig.pngudas 15:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. Carry on. -- Hong 16:14, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Hate to burst your bubble, but:
 * Warrior Armor: 100 (vs. physical)
 * Any +10 Insignia: 10
 * Inscribable shield of which you meet the req: 16
 * Any +10 inscription (vs. physical) on that shield: 10
 * An ally/party member using "Save Yourselves!": 100
 * "I Am Unstoppable!": 24
 * IW with 7 illusion skills: 35
 * This would total to 295 armor vs. physical (265 vs. elemental); 3 more AL than a Ranger could get vs. elemental damage. IGN: Evans The Barbarian--97.92.224.20 16:03, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice :D. User Judas Sig.pngudas 19:12, 5 July 2011 (UTC)