Template talk:Skill infobox

Skill history
Putting it into the infobox is handy and all, but I don't like how it says "Skill history NAME/Skill history"; redundant imo. And the first skill history box doesn't even look like the other boxes (links). And the question is, is it important enough to have a place in the infobox, rather than just in the trivia? --JonTheMon 03:46, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I changed it :P – User Balistic Pve B d-dark.jpgalistic 03:47, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if it goes in Trivia, then we have to tag every single page as we make them (unless we are going to use an ifexist in the Trivia secion) – User Balistic Pve B d-dark.jpgalistic 03:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a line under the infobox? But really, I'd like to get more people's opinions on this. --JonTheMon 03:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally suggest we wait to add anything to the main skill pages until the project has completed more of a majority of the skill history pages. As it is, it is only available for some of the dervish skills and a few other miscellaneous skills. I don't believe the animation link was added until they had 75% of them completed. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  06:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, we'll add them to the main skill page later. – User Balistic Pve B d-dark.jpgalistic 23:29, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * So remove that for now? --JonTheMon 15:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup– User Balistic Pve B d-dark.jpgalistic 16:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Since, I didn't know about this discussion until now. I will show what was discussed on Figherdoken's talk page that two suggested. What do you all think? Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 02:54, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it should follow the model of the animations project and just be linked through the infobox. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  02:56, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay. Well, may I make a suggestion on the infobox? Have it say Skill history (in like under Campaign) or history and the "click to view". Just a thought that came to mind. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 03:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Default icon location
Currently based on the name parameter, I was thinking of changing it to pagename magic word, as for cases where the article is disambiguated likely meaning the icon name needs to be too. Can anyone think of any issudes this may cause? Backsword 15:10, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Issue could be those pages where the image already exists based on the name parameter but wouldn't work with the pagename word. I don't think there are that many pages where a custom image name is required, and I think it is easy enough to simply use the image parameter there. poke | talk 15:25, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * True about existing use, and I know of one such case, however there it is causing a naming conflict. Skill pages have high priority, so when they are disambiguated there is almost always an extensive articvle or disambig page at the base name. And this is quite common once one moves to monster skills and such, it is ionly the unlockable skills for wich it is highly unusual. Backsword 15:29, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Modification to show more categories and sort options in the skill lists
My apologizes, I should still have been on preview, not save (fumbled click)... wanted to do things in order and had this talk with the dubbed template for people to check the changes, silly me. Anyway, the template was almost done (see for a check), I will continue the tests on different skill infoboxes via the template Template:Skill infobox/sortmod : smarter and safer.

@Greener:didn't saw my mistake since it was my "should have been previewed" modification who broked it (missing end bracket near activation case).

--Leonim 10:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, the Template:Skill infobox/sortmod is finished, the category created (exhaustive list of sorting and searcheable categories in Category:Hidden categories) and everything is working as intended. Meaning the visual of the skills won't change, and only two new categories may show : Category:Instant recharge skills and Category:Instant activation skills. I'll let things as is for a few, and will come back to swap for the new template if shown bullet-proof.

Pµurpose : Pretty listing (DPL extension) will take advantage to have skills in premade categories, as well as curious and off-game users. The categories will be populated automatically on wiki bot request (at a later date).

--Leonim 13:08, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I really don't see the point of having such a specific categorization. You can already perform DPL calls for those categories, it's just a lot harder. I think this will just clutter up articles with little-used categories. --JonTheMon 14:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hidden categories don't clutter pages, as they are not shown there (that's the actual point). And in fact, DPL won't be able to get all skills with recharge X due to it's 500 pages limitation. The actual purpose might be not that clear (I'm not sure who would actually want to look for that), but at least it offers possibilities we currently don't have, without adding additional problems. So I don't specially oppose this. poke | talk 18:40, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hidden categories make it more palatable, but ultimately my worry was that there would be pages for each of the possible categories. If it's only used as a parameter in some sort of template, I might be ok with that. --JonTheMon 19:02, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

To see the weight of a category, you can check some infor from the game (sort skills by...), and lets take an example with a simple A/E PVP character and simply activation time : 40 Instant activation, 38 * 1⁄4s, 5 * 1⁄2s, 25 * 3⁄4s, 100 * 1s, 41 * 2s, 5 * 3s and only one 5s activation time. Surely, there's not that many (by the way, I can't tell for sure with ingame tools) skills with long activation, but they are still worth their own category, meanwhile other categories will be quite crowded as they are cross-profession and cross-campaign.

About other less immediate categorizations, they are worth because they give us adaptability ("cause bleeding" and such are always welcome and were indeed forecast in the existing code), yet they wwere never used sadly (but I have time to do a one pass, slowly but sturdily ;)). I would finally add that having consistent top categories, allow easier "removal" from search lists (I'm currently clearing special skills article and the Category:monster skills alone is a mess to deal with, but the worse is that I have to know all subcategories to remove the whole... not very user-friendly).

Finally, I have a bunch of corrections (not upgrade) waiting to be pushed onto that template :
 * lack of case control (on type) causing root categorization (Lift enchantment for instance);
 * projectile spells not getting attention;
 * projectile skills missing a category, and actually they were too be sortable by speed (unsure about that, nut that's how the doc hint at it);
 * special skills lacking the broad category listing;
 * self-reapplied skills not set, gramatical error in the old (and never created) category;
 * 0 energy not showing as not an energy skill;
 * 0 adrenaline not showing as not an adrenaline skill;
 * range skill categories unproperly named (no occurence in "whats link there", so easy fix), as in game it is said "Half range skill", not "half ranged skill".
 * removal skills not set, when a feature sought by many : like skills which remove stances or enchantments (or even a specific condition, but the template has its limit : Ranger's Antidote Signet has to be put into the "condition removal skills" only. I'll work on some text parsing (with the broken sign used in DPL for instance) if really needed;
 * A lot of long-time missing categories, even if they were unused, like the "Skills which cause ..." (I'm proposing the "which cause" term over the "that cause" by the way).

--Leonim 17:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Though I think some of the categories may be over-kill, I will admit that the lists you've been able to make are at least interesting. I have avoided most editing of skills and skill-infoboxes (seems Silver Edge is on top of those), but if these lists are to be usable, we'll need people to keep on top of them as the skills change. I wouldn't mind a project page set up for this (unless there is one and I'm blind), so that I can see the over-all structure of what you're doing. G R E E N E R  18:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


 * There is the inactive Guild Wars Wiki:Projects/Skills project, I left quite similar (but earlier) info there. Since it was inactive and old, I prefered to not dwell to much on the page.


 * Do you want me to create a project stub from scrath and summarize what really does this template (skill infobox) and what it can do (both with existing parameters and with a handful of new ones)?
 * The visual side is quite self-explanatory : though a "morale boost recharge" icon would be a nice addition.
 * As for the categorization based on the parameters, they are in the description of the "sortmod" variant. But if we're speaking of explaining the complete branching, it is more code made text.
 * A better handle of special skills (a global listing coupled with subcategories like : disguise, mission, etc.) could not harm.
 * Finally, you have the "extra" parameter proposal which covers a possible evolution (to help maintain many lists of skills more easily).


 * Depending on what is the consensus, there are two implementation paths : either swap for the proof-tested new version or modifying the existing one step at a time (globally lengthier and some temporary non-final, or totally bogus, categories will appear in the skill pages during the process).
 * Step 1 : Bug corrections and category mismatch, but nothing critical.
 * Step 2 : The existing template has a few inactive (I mean by that unused, partly or simply unfinish business) yet very interesting parameters (causeN and removeN, projectile, target), I'm not sure why.
 * Step 3 : Cleaning the categories mess.
 * Step 4 : Introducing the modified categorization code (availability of lists and sorts by recharge time, activation time, energy cost, adrenaline cost, sacrifice cost, range, removal effect and appplied effect).
 * Step 5 (optional) : Adding new basic parameters covering a bunch of missing mechanisms like easily-interrupted, armor penetration, damage type.
 * Step 6 (optional) : Adding the extra parameters (one form or the other).
 * Step 7a : Refreshing skill pages (for categories to be automatically filled).
 * Step 7b : Completing skill pages with values for those parameters.


 * But first and foremost, what is needed is to pick (or make some fictional) skill samples to test-proof either path taken; as I'm biaised (coding), I can't do that well enough. Is there a namespace and wiki naming guideline for, (or particularly suited, maybe "user"?) test pages?
 * --Leonim 02:47, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * For initial non-save testing, I preview an existing page with the test template. For more thorough examples, I make sub-pages that copy existing pages, but with your test template. For those kinds of pages, though, you might not fully implement the categories (use [ instead of JonTheMon 02:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd love the morale boost recharge. I've added the categorization for it, but couldn't find a working form for the icon in our current template. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  12:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Skill ID
I think the template should be changed so it is shown no matter if "| image" is being used..... If it's possible. - J.P. Talk  20:03, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * So, why would this be helpful and where did you want it to show up? --JonTheMon 13:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Move your cursor over the skill icon on here and tell me what you see. Now do the same here. See?
 * Ofcourse the "| name" could be changed from Siege Turtle Attack to Siege Turtle Attack (Fort Aspenwood), but then it wouldn't reflect what it's called in-game. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  11:18, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I get the difference, so why do you prefer the ID over the skill name? --JonTheMon 13:56, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * What? No no no, over the image direction shown when hovering your cursor over the image. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  14:14, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Image direction? Can you be clearer than that? makes no sense to me. When hovering cursor above the mending pic I see "290" in the text window and when hovering over the seige turtle I get "image:Seige Turtle Attack (Fort Aspenwood).jpg". --[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex  14:44, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * And that's because image paragraph is being used, obviously.
 * My request is simply to modify the infobox to make the ID visible, even if the image paragraph is used. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  15:37, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mean parameter instead of paragraph? Ok, so i'll re-ask my question: why to you want the hover popup to be the ID instead of the name? --JonTheMon 16:10, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sorry about that.
 * I don't know have you noticed, but the ID is what currently pops up. ID unset if the infobox is missing it. But only if image parameter isn't used.
 * I think this is a great way of having the skill ID in the infobox, without increasing it in size. Image parameter hiding the ID decrease it's usefulness. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  22:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand the behavior, I'm asking why you want it to show the ID. It doesn't seem like very useful information, since it's just a behind-the-scenes number. --JonTheMon 22:06, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know why this was added in the first place. I have no opinion why ID should be there. Maybe you should ask that from Backsword, he made the edit.
 * I just assumed this was something that was agreed upon and just went with it.
 * However i agree it's just behind the scenes stuff and won't mind abandoning it if people think it's unnecessary. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  22:28, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL asking backsword for an explanation. And really, if he does something you don't understand, it's probably not consensus, it just hasn't been noticed before. So, apart from "consistency" or whatever, what do we want? --JonTheMon 22:35, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

is-pvp and has-pvp variables
Can we get the "is-pvp" variable to call Template:pveversion in a similar manner to the "has-pvp" variable calling Template:pvpversion?

Also, "has-pvp = n" still calls the category Category:PvE versions of skills. G R E E N E R 23:01, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. It would make it practical like "has-pvp" - parameter is now.
 * One way could be the is-pvp value being the pve version of the skill.
 * Like: | is-pvp = Shadow Form
 * Though it would require going through all the pvp skills instead of just editing the template. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  12:09, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That's an interesting way to look at it. As for editing all the pvp pages, I realized that per my original intent, we would have to delete all of the current pveversion from their pages manually if we get the infobox creating it. G R E E N E R  20:14, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, i somehow totally ignored the fact... - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  21:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Requires recharge
I support setting up an icon to show/demonstrate that the skill requires recharge, but the +2% morale boost icon is (a) too large compared to the other icons; (b) misleading (the skills don't offer +2% morale); and (c) should probably appear below other icons.

Although changing just morale boost doesn't impact most skills, I think it's better to setup a sandbox version of the template for testing purposes and get other people's opinions about how it looks before updating.

I also think we should remove the icons from the other require-recharge skills until we agree on how to update the infobox. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:51, 13 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Here you go.
 * As for the "misleading" aspect, I honestly don't think it would be an issue (Considering that the recharge image is proceeding it.) - however removing the "2%" from the image (if even possible), may help. An alternative would be someone creating a green up arrow icon image to use instead of the generic morale boost image. It may help.
 * Finally, there's no feasible way to make that appear last without affecting other skills (And, resizing the image makes it not really necessary), unless you were to add an additional parameter to the skill info box template specifically for morale boost recharge skills, which would cause issues with categorizing. User_Ryuu_R.jpg‎ Ryuu  - lol wiki 00:05, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for setting up a sandbox for a skill; I think we probably also need to sandbox the template for testing.


 * I like your idea of using an alternative color to the recharge arrow (green works, I think, although red might be better). That's easier to implement than superimposing the recharge icon atop the morale icon (after removing the specific number). In case folks like seeing the Morale icon as-is, I've taken the liberty of reducing it to 19px (same size as inline icons) in the sandbox.


 * It wouldn't be hard to set it up to go last if we make requires morale boost to recharge a new parameter (instead of having it mixed with normal recharge as it is now). However, after reflection, that seems more trouble than it's worth. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 00:37, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe instead of showing a morale boost related icon, it would make more sense to show something that makes it clear, that it does not recharge. After all, those skills do not recharge, and morale boosts just recharge every skill. Mabye a simple No [[File:Tango-recharge-darker.png]] would be enough. poke | talk 21:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I like that better, especially if we can replace that (eventually) by superimposing the two icons. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 21:47, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * With something like this? [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Tango-recharge-morale2.png]] User_Ryuu_R.jpg‎ Ryuu  - lol wiki 23:14, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * With something like this? [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Tango-recharge-morale2.png]] User_Ryuu_R.jpg‎ Ryuu  - lol wiki 23:14, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I like that in lieu of the usual recharge icon. However, I was thinking more along the lines of User Tennessee Ernie Ford No-recharge-temp.png (it takes me 2 rulers to draw a straight line, so try to judge this image on the concept, not the execution) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:32, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Touched it up.
 * [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Tango-recharge-morale_Final.png]]
 * I suppose I'll start looking at implementing it into the template via sandbox, now. User_Ryuu_R.jpg‎ Ryuu <font color="#00FFCC"> - lol wiki 23:50, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Done. An example can be found here. If it's worthy, then the updated template can be found here. Ryuu  <font color="#00FFCC"> - lol wiki 00:18, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * That's kinda ambiguous. Like, yes, it's a grey version of the recharge icon, but it doesn't say much. There needs to be a little more...--JonTheMon 00:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * What would you suggest, then? User_Ryuu_R.jpg‎ Ryuu <font color="#00FFCC"> - lol wiki 07:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Poke's suggestion of "this skill doesn't recharge" or TEF's mini-boost icon. Perhaps we can make a tango morale boost for this? --JonTheMon 12:41, 15 April 2011 (UTC)