User talk:Raine Valen/Mass Balance/Paragon/Skills/Motivation

=Motivation=

Boro's Proposal
Discuss please. Do you like the First or second idea? Which tweaks would you do? --Boro 13:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The healing is too strong, imo. Passive healing is passive.  I mean, it's basically party-wide irremovable Vigorous Spirit, doubled. =/  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  15:16, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What about this version? reduced healing Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Earthshaker.jpg|10px‎]] 19:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Much better. <3 [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine  - talk  23:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Boro's Proposal
+3 energy regen on your entire mid- and backline, maintainable? IB4T nerf. If it were maintainable 1 energy regen, it'd be fine. Maintainable 2 energy regen would be borderline. Maintainable 3? pr0h4x. Either give it an end clause so people have to choose between regaining energies and using energies, reduce the duration or increase the cost/recharge so that it's not maintainable, or reduce the regen so that it's not 175% energy regen on your casters (and Dervishes/Assassins), 200% on your rangers, and 250% on your warriors (and yourself). Or something else. But I think it's pretty OP as it is.  Raine  - talk  16:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * done --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Earthshaker.jpg|10px‎]] 12:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:/

 * :\ - Auron &gt;8&lt; 07:45, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Formal objections pl0x. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  14:27, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * the entire page - Auron &gt;8&lt; 22:15, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Any other problem than the current tl;dr state? Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 17:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the reason Auron goes :/ is because you make these skills so ridiculously overpowered, missing the reason Paragons are kept weak entirely. Dark Morphon 09:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that it should be kept in mind, that theese versions have significant energy costs, and need to be constantly reapplied for their effects, have gaps, and so they can be interrupted. But anyway can you think of a balanced solution for paragons? --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 16:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, the reason I go :/ is because these changes miss the point entirely. Paragons need mechanics changes, not number tweaks. Motivation, in its current form, will never be balanced - it will either be too weak or too strong. It needs to be redone from the bottom up, and none (none!) of the suggestions people have put forward actually fix the problems with the paragon class. Sword DPS at range, too much armor, unlimited energy in organized play and not enough in small arenas, leadership skills suck, motivation skills stack with each other to become too good with 5 paragons, shouts and chants are uncounterable and unstrippable... there are a bunch of problems, and none of them are being fixed by suggesting number tweaks.
 * Keep going if you like living in theoryland, but this isn't some end-all change list that will fix GW. - Auron &gt;8&lt; 01:42, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And this is why I thanks you for showing me that problem... I have some ideas. see you at shouts and at chants page Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 12:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Motivation's problem is that the Paragon has 100+ armor. Healers benefit from a weak defense in order to balance them, which is why the paragon shouldn't be a healer. Not to mention that he has a better energy management than a monk, and deals damage too...the easiest way to balance Motivation is to steer away from the healing. 145.94.74.23 14:20, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the damage and healing combination is the biggest problem. It is why Smiter's Boon was a problem in the first place. Dark Morphon 14:32, 7 April 2009 (UTC)