Talk:Defy Pain (PvP)

Hurray, I guess
This is now just an elite Endure Pain for PvP, but then again Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood players would be most affected because Defy Pain was a viable build there. CryoStatic 02:30, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, but at least it still has 20 armor. →[ » Halogod User Halogod35 Sig.png  (talk)« ]← 02:45, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It was crazy annoying in Fort Aspenwood for stalling turtles. This new PvP version looks pretty bad. Maybe it will find a place. 58.110.89.6 02:47, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is exactly what Defy Pain was before the buff, only worse. It sucked so hard that they over-buffed it, so they need to super-over-nerf it? P.S.: no, it will not find its place because it didn't even have a place when it was stronger, before power creep got on steroids. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  02:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected, it's not exactly the same, it's easier to maintain now. Whoopie. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  02:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It has to do more with GvG... with soloing the GL and being an wall blocking the gates so that a sin can SF to the lord for damage and then hold. Personally... I am a little bumbed that it got abused because I loved the split/tank ability for stand... RIP... - SabreWolf 05:24, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * GvG? Don't ya mean FA? Have 2 Warriors in your team with Defy Pain equals to Luxons having no turtles. Waar Kijk Je Naar 05:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, he doesnt mean FA smartass. He's talking about the Tanksplit in GvG but you wouldnt know about that seeing you dont participate in serious PvP. Don't try to "Correct" someone when you've got no idea what you'r/they're on about - 87.208.78.61 09:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL YES THANK YOU FOR THE SPLIT PVP SKILLDrug[[Image:User_Drug_Image-User_Drug_sig.png‎|19x19px|]] 13:42, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * They should just have made it an energy skill with only 15 duration and a 25 recharge imo. And being it should remain being a skill. Infested Hydralisk  14:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

i can still tank the turtles in FA with my defy pain warrior, i dont know what you guys are talking about--Lew 23:01, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * They are talking about gvg--Lollo 14:23, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * well i'm talking about FA :P --Lew 16:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Defy Pain was hardly a problem in FA. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  16:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

There goes my 16 axe/15 strength defy pain build
won't be able to frenzy so comfortably anymore :( 60.234.212.190 08:51, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Cheer up! Frenzy is very forgiving: it lets you know exactly when you messed up. With a little practice, you, too, will be able to Frenzy with confidence! --Macros 18:16, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * anyone can frenzy and cancel with rush... it's just that its no longer viable to frenzy with the sup axe and sup strength on you unless you really wanna get 3-hit-killed with your lol ~400 health... so no more ~105 dmg auto-attack crits on 60 armor casters who don't have shield set and/or correct insignias is what I was QQing about 60.234.212.190 09:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Damage Reduction gone fine, conversion to Stance is not
Synergy with IAS and IMS stances is gone, which is a crime against warriors. DP = fight in slow motion. Practically a Smiter's Boon job.

I'm fine with the damage reduction gone from the PvP version, but isn't this a self Watch Yourself as a stance with a health boost masquerading as an elite? Maybe defensive strategies for warriors are just seen as bad for the game... although they could have added an activation time to make it interruptable, or disabled spells for 20s, negated healing effectiveness, or some other "bad side" to balance the goodness.

The change that happened looks like such a hatchet job, cutting Defy Pain from the game completely (which cynical players will be more than happy with of course). Cirian 15:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't really like the idea of the skill in general, but they definitely could have toned it down without making it a stance. You still have to give up your elite and a utility for it, and it's not nearly as effective as WE was. --67.240.88.57 15:25, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well i think the split was exactly what this skill needed because last time i checked this was a tanking skill and shouldn't really have a place in organised PvP. Its like taking a MM into a GvG, your not going to do anything meaningful for the team, your just going to be an annoyance and a waste of a bar. --A zreal o f S kyrim [[Image:User Azreal of skyrim signature.jpg]] 23:00, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Err, this was nerfed because you could sit in the lord room with it and pewpew the lord for the entire match without dying. Life Guardian 23:02, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I call BS. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  23:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Cyrian, I don't think you understand how this game works. Players should have to choose "damage or survivability." You should never be able to have a lot of both, which was what defy pain allowed. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you can use this as a cancel stance for frenzy. →[ » Halogod User Halogod35 Sig.png  (talk)« ]← 00:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Cirian got it backwards. Even if they just removed the damage reduction, nobody would use it (because that's exactly how it was before the buff, and still nobody used it). If they had just made it in to a stance, people might still use it, even though they'd have to give up mobility and more damage than just not bringing a damage elite. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  03:11, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * oh QQ more...wahhhhh!!!...u idiots thought u could get away with iway all ur life? tada!!! wars suck anyway :P 184.36.7.250 16:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure at least most of us don't play IWAY. Maybe "u" should learn about one of the most vital classes in PvP called the warrior. Oh, and learn how to insult better. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  16:51, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ... Last time I checked iway didnt use defy pain The Emmisary 17:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It actually did for a few months in 08. Defy was also popular in the 4 war 4 para gimmick. - Auron 17:21, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

the number of skills
needs to be updated. defy pain does not count anymore nor does smiters boon, mending, hamstring, Amity, Watchful Spirit, Withdraw hexes, Shatter storm, Jaundiced gaze, Concussion shot, Second Wind, Expunge Enchantments, Vocal was sogolon, Mighty Throw, Wearying strike, and many more... removing skills from the game must be a-net preparing us for the lack of of skills GW2 has planned.
 * Some of those named count. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  02:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * not really, any skill on here I could name a skill that does a better, more efficient job at the same thing. well I suppose if your talking pve, but i'm not. withdraw hexes is owned by convert hexes, shatter storm by gaze of contempt-yes it requires a secondary but it also saves your elite and doesn't make itself useless. second wind has the same deal, it makes itself useless and if it's energy you want there are way better options. the closest use I can see with smiter's boon is comboing it with deny hexes and auspicious incantation still it's 3 skill slots on your bar. Hamstring.. assuming you have the energy the recharge is lame, if you want a non elite cripple that badly you are much better off using a derv secondary or something. If I don't see Amity being used in Top GVG matches it's pretty safe to say that even in a coordinated team it's bad-also pacifism. Concussion even with high expertise is tough on energy-just bring BHA. Wearying strike-if avatar of melandru was 15e this would be pretty sweet but it's not and if your bringing a removal even a 1/4 cast one your spending too much time casting and not enough attacking. Jaundiced... well maybe there is some use to it I haven't thought of but it's in the same line as strip and necros have plenty of e-management. Mighty throw i'm sorry but this is just bad by the time you finish casting your party will have killed the mob and have moved on to the next one. Vocal.. just can't be used... you'll have problems speccing well in your attributes, you will prob have energy problems, and then you will realize how most shouts can either be re-applied anyways, or won't help out much. that leaves expunge- want to get rid of shadow form users? either rupt it or use something like sig of disenchantment or kill/snare them before they get to the desired target. there really isn't much other use for expunge since lift enchant and shattering assault as well as your secondary can be used. /apology for wall of text.
 * oh yeah lol defy pain... endure pain with watch yourself can't be removed, saves your elite, and can be used with stances.
 * By some, I just meant Concussion Shot and Jaundiced Gaze and Hamstring. Concussion Shot isn't that hard on energy when you have infinite energy (aka ranger) and can't be dodged like BHA while saving your elite. Jaundiced Gaze is a strip that costs nothing while making your next order cast faster. Hamstring can be used by rangers with swords (although, they did nerf Escape). All the others pretty much suck. :P Oh yeah, and please sign by putting ~ at the end of your post, thanks! <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  18:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see Gaze of Contempt used to set up spikes in GvG, whereas it's meta for dual Para builds to have a P/Me with Shatterstorm. You picked some low-hanging fruit, but I'm afraid this one sees use. --<font size="3" face="Joan"> Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 02:50, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Related skills
I don't think those are very related, to be honest. It's non-elite version, Endure Pain, is pretty much the only one. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ  <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  03:01, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Dwarven Battle Stance and Vow of Piety are related by being stances that provide more additional armor rating than Defy Pain (PvP), which is also a stance. --Silver Edge 06:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but DBS only works with a hammer and is an offensive stance, and VoP (more related than DBS) acts very differently because it gives Health regeneration and renews when an enchantment ends. Disciplined Stance also gives armor, but is also not very related to this skill. :\ <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  20:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)