User talk:Auron/Archive 8

'''This is an archive of my talk page from May 29th, 2008 to September 19th, 2008. Please don't edit it; leave comments and messages on my talk page.'''

By the way
I keep forgetting to tell you this, but I love this. It really is, isn't it? -- People of Antioch 02:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Well there you have it
You are now bcrat on all three wikis. Incase you were not aware (as you seen to be online on this wiki but not the other). Anyway, congratz :D -- Shadowphoenix   05:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * hmmm, has that ever happened before?--Sum Mesmer Guy[[Image:User sum mesmer guy signiture.png‎|19px|Talk to me NOW!! DO IT!]] contribs 06:23, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * well, can't say he's an unsuited person for something like that. i think DE should have a similar position. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 07:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's quite funny ^^ poke | talk 11:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ok, i think that sounded a bit too serious, so /halfsarcasm. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 11:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * honestly, though, i'm starting to get to like them. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 11:59, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, so what website are you going to become Bureaocrat on next? &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  18:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * usa.gov - Auron 18:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * cool, you'll join my crew? - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 18:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I TOLD YOU
AURON IS TAKING OVER (-GUESS WHO) 69.122.146.84 07:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * no auron is just baed Droks 19:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll be quoting that. Also, may I have a piece of your kidney? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * lol droks u fail terribly for saying that --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 00:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Great Job
omg I love the quotes on your page, thats great... Once again Great Job!!! Artemis 01:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

You win again
So... what prize would you like? -- NUKLEAR   IIV  10:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ...? - Auron 10:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * the tradition is that you win a prize every time you win. Specifically, I was referring to your new Userpage. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  10:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm. In that case, a r9/10 command amethyst aegis. Thanks in advance. - Auron  10:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Couldn't find one, but here's the closest thing I could find: [[Image:User NuclearVII jackson.jpg]] -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:00, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Please
Be less of an elitist bastard and learn to be gud at the game before dissing guilds containing players better than you ( KMD, qE). also, you lied before about being in dR, i talked to both tommy and doji, and you were never in the guild. =5 more failure points for you. kk thx. pz out. - rhys <3333 70.15.5.207 04:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have pics showing me in the guild, pics of status showing my invite, and ofc pics of the tag/cape. Either I'm an amazing photoshopper (and psychically knew the entire guild's roster and status) or I was actually in the guild. Your pick.
 * KMD and qE have decent players. Not great players, mind you - definitely not better players than those in dV and similar guilds who got shafted by the lag. If the good guilds hadn't had lag issues, KMD etc would not have been top 8. Plain and simple. If you think otherwise, you're deluding yourself. They would probably have gotten top 20, but not top 8. Which was the entire point of my argument, in case you missed/forgot it. - Auron 04:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you won't take his word for it, take mine that he dragged me to GToB (forcing me away from WoW, as I recall, which was an effort on his part) to show off his tag and gold cape. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 13:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

what's going on
sup--Around 05:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey mr ebil. - Auron 05:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Help?
did you block him or something? &mdash; Seru    Talk 05:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Merci &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 05:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sry for posting here. &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 05:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

So i hurd...
you were mega jealous when i was holding halls today. kthx.--Ñö Ẋ  ĭƑý'  06:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't believe anyone let you in any guild tbh. But it fits with the rep spearmen have. Good job running shitway in HA btw, I'm quite jealous/impressed/whatever. - Auron 06:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Auron's being aggressive? Shit, get to the bunker. --76.25.197.215 06:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So i hurd hohhold is srs bsns nowadays, not (lawl for some pver posting random stuff on Aurons talkpage, made my day) 137.163.16.66 09:40, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Since when are people saying i hurd rather than i herd?! Dark Morphon  (contribs)  15:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * since ur mom --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 15:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * did brains go to teh darkside since i left?--[[Image:User_Raph_Sig.png|19px]]Ra ph  <font color="Blue">Tal <font color="Orange">ky  17:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * didnt u know? Brains=new Raptors--Sum Mesmer Guy[[Image:User sum mesmer guy signiture.png‎|19px|Talk to me NOW!! DO IT!]] contribs 08:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Brains = New Troll. Welcome aboard comrade. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  09:49, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

This is Choytw from PvX
Is PvX down? I've been trying to get in for the last hour or so and I'm timing out. 209.33.14.48 18:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think so, I'm having the same problem.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 16:43, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm having problems with wikis today it seems. When I wrote the above and saved the page, nothing showed up. So I pressed back and saved the page again... *Edit Conflict* So I look at the page history:
 * (cur) (last) 18:56, 16 August 2008 209.33.14.48 (Talk) (9,638 bytes) (→This is Choytw from PvX:  new section) updated since my last visit (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 16:43, 16 August 2008 Teh Uber Pwnzer (Talk | contribs) (9,790 bytes) (→This is Choytw from PvX) updated since my last visit (undo)
 * See anything wrong here?
 * Still, the only thing on this section of your talk page that is showing up is Chytw's question, even though I have reloaded the page like 10 times.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 20:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The wiki's having some... problems today. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 20:55, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like it's back up. - Auron 10:28, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

protoss
WTH is a protoss? ~ Kurd  19:36, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.google.com/ - Auron 19:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Terrans are /win, but too lazy to play 'toss, I am. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  08:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ugh, I'm terri-bad that game. --[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png|Talk]] People of Antioch 05:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Contact me
I recommend unblocking me from IRC or I can just keep making socks and we can carry out a conversation here. Either or, really, is fine. My Grinchiest Grinch 14:21, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty weird that he didn't just contact him on PvX... neither of them are banned there. Misery 14:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Change of plans. I have to go help with house siding and then head over to a far-away Ford dealership because none nearby have a Focus with standard transmission. My car's about dead. Then we can go debate shit all day or whatever tickles your pickle, like this shithole. Speaking of which, I understand you want Wynthyst or Anja really badly, but being a little bitch on other wikis won't help. In fact, long distance realationships almost always fail. Just a little tip. Grinch got NPA&#39;d qq 14:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you want to talk about anything in particular, or did you just want to troll? - Auron 17:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Auron is out of luck. My belongs to Twinklepixie! --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 17:20, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Voting
I read your reason. According to wiki rules, no one is allowed to remove comments from their pages without approval from a sysop or bureaucrat. --Burning Freebies 08:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * . - Auron 08:06, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

You sir
are a pagan.To be released from youre sins pls follow the church of gaming Lilondra 15:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * your* - Auron 15:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dont correct the messenger that wants to release you from youre ok i give up i suck at grammar just follow it Lilondra 16:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Your in dR?
Are you in dR? --<font color="Black">Ñö Ẋ  ĭƑý'  19:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * you're*--75.94.77.148 19:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Haven't been for over a month. - Auron 19:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Never got a reinvite from the mass gkicking? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 20:12, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Chibi, gilmour, and ol xor came back from age of badnan. - Auron 20:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * AoF. Age of Failure, amirite?-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 20:21, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * whats so bad about AoC Lilondra 10:31, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Crappy support, crappy balance, incredible computer load, dying community, Funcom continuing to charge players who have quit and banning them when they complain on the forums. --71.229 10:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And bad GMs, which I guess might fall under support. - Auron 10:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So wait till warhammer online i guess or Will GW2 be worth the money and time ? (from what ive seen there going wow'ish wich is bad imo) Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  09:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * WoW and GW both have the same problem; namely, they're great ideas that were implemented horribly. If GW2 turns out good in the ways WoW was good, but without the badness, I'd be willing to give it a shot. But, of course, this is ANet we're talking about; I doubt they'll be able to code in the fixes that are needed from the ground up even if they realize what they are. (WoW itself could be fixed pretty reasonably if Blizzard were willing to go back and recode the whole game and, quite apart from that major recoding, set the level cap back to 60.) -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 15:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually I think they could make GW the best mmorpg on the market if they just stopped throwing there brains against the wall.Imo just :

1.Lower the pressure on izzy make a group of exp gamers that do the balancer thing.(Ofcourse izzy listens to some great players 2.balance pve ! Drop all the consumables AND all Pve-only skills or balance them out. 3.balance pve ! Instead of giving mobs OMFG WTF HAXORZ LOL LOL HEADSHOT skills just give them a proppor build.No giving a boss mind burn that deals 3 times the damage and has no downside for him is not balanced.Drop the oh yayiez i have X times more damage.Just give bosses bonusses. 4.Completely rework all non core professions

A lot of work but if they do these things i would be more intrested in gw then in gw2. Lilondra  *poke*  17:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Contratulations!
Welcome to the team... now just don't break anything! -- Wyn 06:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Finally ;) - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 06:10, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What they said. -- Gordon Ecker 06:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't break anything... uhoh. They never said that when I was bureaucrat :< - Auron 06:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't break anything. This retroactively applies to your former bcrat term, preemptively applies to any future bcrat terms, and most definitely applies to your sysopdom. - Tanetris 07:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That's becos a sysop get a big stick while bureaucrats get a committee ;) -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 08:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * may your ban hammer be heavier than most others! - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 09:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Congrats!!!! -- S ilverleaf   [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|User_talk:Silverleaf]] 12:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Salam ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 14:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a sling or case for your expensive BanHammer 9001? --[[Image:User PoA Sig.png|Talk]] Antioch 15:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do a good job, grats -- Shadowphoenix [[Image:User Shadowphoenix Necromancer.png|19x19px|Please, talk to me; I'm so lonely ;-;]] 15:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Congrats!!! -- [[Image:User indochine dsk tree.png|15px]] Indochine  talk 17:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Congrats Auron :) -- Kakarot [[Image:User_Kakarot_Sig.gif|Talk]] 18:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Congrats!  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 18:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

What tanetris said. -- NUKLEAR   IIV  14:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations Auron, break something, you know you want to. Do it for the lols. -- scourge   23:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * congrats! -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 23:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I HAZ REPLAZOR! :D &mdash; Galil [[Image:User Galil sig.png|Talk page]] 00:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

But
whats wrong with this : Actually i would prefer a energycost reduction on many utility skills.Hamstring,Blinding Surge,... Utility is the key increasing the energy cost will not decrease the utility on youre build but the damage it will produce ;) . I'm saying a preference i'm not npa'ing or anythin Oo Lilondra   *poke*  14:50, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

ow btw there is no use in keeping something he doesnt read up to date and honestly i dont blame izzy for not reading it.Its full of stupid suggestions (yes ive made some 2).Its quite meh tbh.Imo Izzy should put the skills he sees as an issue and we could suggest things or sumthin like few each week this way there is no way izzy can read everything ;) Lilondra   *poke*  14:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a note
You might want to look into the edits of user Ayla. She seems to be editing just to edit (perhaps trying to up her count) and adds new comments and sections only to remove them after. She either doesn't understand the rules or... well, that's up to you to decide. ~ <font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  01:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * She could just... be... pretty dumb... maybe... >.> -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 04:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see anything questionable let alone warnable. Seems to be just a new user learning their way around. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Very unimportant question that's been nagging me for about 6 months
What points are Readem referring to? -- NUKLEAR   IIV  13:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What points are you referring to? I see no mention of them in that section. - Auron 20:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The bit where he says "Now about your bullets". I want to know those bullets. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * User talk:Auron/UnlockFirst/Elementalist/Archive. - Auron 06:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

would you be so kind
to waste some time on my balance page i need help lol Lilondra   *poke*  17:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't understand the point of balance. Guild Wars needs complete overhauls in terms of mechanics and the counter system - instead of the entire focus in a game being to crack through defenseball with a flurry of interrupts, it needs to be... well, balanced. The need for defenseball must be addressed. Base scythe damage needs to be reduced. Deep Wound needs to be removed from energy skills entirely (they've been nothing but balance issues - from shadow prison assassins with twisting fangs, to assacasters with augury of death, to mels dervs with wearying strike, to escape rangers with pious assault, and back to dervs with wounding strike - they have all been overpowered, and it's because energy skills should never cause deep wound more often than 20 seconds. More often is simply overpowered - deep wound is too powerful a condition to be that spammable).
 * Casters dealing damage need to have viable counters. A single dom mesmer on a balanced team needs options to shut down 5 or 6 searing flames eles, or 7-8 gimmicky spike necros. A single copy of cry of frustration isn't enough - spike skills recharge in 2-5 seconds anyway, so cry is just going to delay the inevitable.
 * In that vein, interrupts need to be punishable, if not viably prevented (i.e., not sacrificing a secondary, your stance, and 8 energy every time something tries to interrupt you). Weapon spells need to be removable - a target becoming invulnerable to spike and pressure damage for 8-9 seconds because of WoWarding is stupid. Chants need to have more than a single counter, preferably one that isn't locked into hex heavy builds. Daze removing all chants currently on a target, for example, would be a step in the right direction.
 * Basically, ArenaNet's greatest failure is their inability to balance new mechanics. They fucked up on that as soon as they started adding mechanics to a previously balanced game. Shadowsteps were imbalanced - instant cast, no penalty, allowed assassins (and warriors and later dervishes) to ignore positioning entirely. Rit spirits were imbalanced, and ANet had to nerf them out of existence to balance them - that hints at major failure in the design of the mechanic. Weapon spells, as I've said above, were a terrible mechanic. Most of them cast too quickly to be interrupted, and the bonuses from each weapon spell are ridiculous. Shouts and chants are powerful, irremovable, and the only viable way to prevent them from getting up is to kill the paragon... which is quite a feat, considering they generally have over 100 AL. Again, imbalanced - ANet should have introduced more (and more viable) shout/chant counters with Nightfall.
 * If you're looking to truly balance the game, look beyond simple skill number tweaks. You need to introduce counters to skills that have always been a problem - change some of the 500+ useless skills into something that is balanced and helps defeat a mechanic. If shadowsteps have a counter, they can be rebuffed, making for more dynamic (yet not imbalanced) split play. If weapon spells are removable, spikes can still go through WoWarding and stuff like warmongers can be stripped to prevent retards from mashing interrupts via cspace. If shouts have counters, paragons won't be a single invincible buffbot that can give the entire party armor bonuses, movement increases and whatever else while maintaining steady DPS and spike assisting capabilities. Basically, your goal is to fix the problems ANet failed miserably at recognizing and preempting. Any monkey with a computer can suggest number tweaks - however, for the most part, those aren't the problem (wounding strike being the obvious exception - that one needs 25e and 90r tbh). - Auron 21:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Which kind of counter do you think would be better? I have seen many different suggestions about this, and out of curiosity I would like to know which one you think is the best among them:
 * Giving some skills the ability of removing shouts/chants/etc, while keeping part of their original purpose so they're not as conditional as "Vocal Minority". For example, making it so someone under Dulled Weapon cannot be under the effect of shouts/etc. I'm a bit worried this could lead intoBuild Wars (people always take one of those skills and thus win against builds relying on paragons, or never take them and therefore lose to the above mentioned builds), although of course a very fine tunned balance could prevent such thing.
 * Allow counters to an old mechanic to also counter shouts & alikes. For example, by allowing all enchant removals to remove shouts/chants, or by turning those skills into spells (one step beyond allowing the "Power" skills to work on them, like Isaiah already did).
 * Making Daze remove shouts/etc, or making a Dazed character unable to cast them. I'm a bit unsure about this, given how only a few skills inflict Daze, and how expensive they usually are. But at the same time, someone could argue that an effect as powerful as this one would be fitting of how uncommon Daze is.
 * Or just trying something else.
 * Do you think shouts/etc would need to be buffed, to account for more counters being introduced, or would most of them be fine as they are now? Erasculio 22:40, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A combination of all, really. I don't want to see a bunch of singular skills that can't be fit into a team build very well. I want them to be more universal, as you're saying - bringing melee hate is so effective because "melee" is a very broad mechanic. If I take a bsurge ele into GvG, I'm going to be rather effective - every team has melee, so I will always have something to do. If I have to sacrifice a skill specifically for removing weapons (where the skill does nothing else), I'm playing right into the build wars mentality you pointed out. The ability to remove weapons should be meshed with a few other abilities all in one skill, so as to reduce the chance of that skill being absolutely worthless if I go up against a team with no weapon spells.
 * Your second point sums it up, basically. Old utility skills, especially some in the mesmer line, can be reworked to do what they used to do and more. Clumsiness could be reworked to something like "hex spell, lasts 10 seconds, the next time target foe misses with an attack, he loses his weapon spell and takes X damage," which retains the old damage, introduces a weapon removing mechanic, and (with proper recharge/cast time tweaking) would keep it balanced. Clumsiness was always an anti-melee spell, so in keeping with its original purpose, it would only reliably remove weapons from melee chars. The same could be introduced to help remove them from casters (if you lose energy via edenial you lose a weapon?), with the mesmer's bad anticaster skills.
 * It would take a lot of work at this point - that kind of countering an entire mechanic needs to be thought out before the mechanic goes live. - Auron 00:02, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * hey its just for fun i know the problems are much deeper but creating something unremovable just isnt balanced at all.(both shouts and weapon spells).The problem is its hard to balance something that shouldnt have existed in the first place.Perhaps the only way would be to make noncore professions pve only but that would just get to much bad feedback ;) I DO understand the problem but i dont rly see a way to fix it exept making it more active or more costly (and even that is a bad fix) Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  14:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * GW balance iz srs bsnss. I think all of the things mentioned are really only problems in PvP. In PvE, who gives a damn if you've got a slight advantage over NPCs and monsters? Balancing in the ways suggested would make normal mode really hard for some players. Overall, I wouldn't like to see a major overhaul that Auron suggests. To me it's mostly unnecessary. Except maybe in PvP.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 19:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I dunno, I think GW PvE should have a learning curve instead of a horizontal line.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 22:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Slight advantage? Are you kidding? Taking absolutely no damage from hard mode monsters and dealing out insane amounts via splinter/dragon slash or GDW + barrage/incendiary isn't a "slight" advantage, it's absolutely gamebreaking, and only exists because people are terrible at the game. They simply can't beat mallyx without those retardedly overpowered skills. The problem in PvE is invincibility - shadow form needs to be completely removed (25e, 90r, 5 cast time kind of removed), and SY needs to be less maintainable. Once parties have stopped being immune to all forms of damage, we can start talking about PvE balance like it matters.
 * The overhaul of the kind I'm suggesting wouldn't touch PvE in the least. You still have PvE skills. Monsters still don't. What's the big issue? - Auron 22:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ...Because absolutely every single player uses those farm builds in every-day PvE. I don't have /any/ farm builds and still do Hard Mode. I have to resort to the old Ursan arguement of, you don't like it, you don't need to play it. In fact, I extoll players for putting 2 and 2 together and figuring out how they can become invincible. New players won't do that so it's not so gamebreaking for everyone. Get over it, in my opinion.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 19:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That argument is bullshit. Those skills are balanced poorly and there is no reason for them to be so. Get a valid argument then try to tell me to get over it - that old ursan argument was flat wrong then and is still flat wrong. When it comes to game balance, if something is not balanced, I am not going to "get over it." I'm not going to lower my standards because some terrible players can't beat mallyx without shadow form and a billion searing flames eles, or clear FoW without 7 ursans. They need to do what everyone before them did - get better at the game. Guild Wars was founded on skill over grind, and if they don't have the skill to beat it (thus relying on the grind of getting ursan up to r10, which is an assload of grind for very little actual reward), they shouldn't get any of the rewards for beating it.
 * If you think it's cool for people to run around without taking damage at all in "elite missions" and "hard" mode, you have very low standards for game balance. You also seem to think that only "experienced" players can open up PvX wiki and see all the builds listed there - which simply isn't true.
 * If your advice to people who wanted ursan balanced is "get over it," discussion with you will be fruitless. Read this, and if all of those game breaking factors (working with 13-14 skill slots, ability to have 100+ armor and 1000+ hp, a shield with max benefit, immune to all forms of melee hate in the entire game (including prot), the fact that a single skill is enough to get through entire "elite" areas) aren't enough to convince you that Ursan was overpowered and in need of a severe nerf, then you really have no room to be talking about game balance. - Auron 20:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have enough fun with the game as it is. And that's all it is.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 21:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's an incredibly selfish view of the situation. You're fine with the game as it is, so the thousands of people who left because ANet doesn't know how to balance their game don't make a difference? (On a related note, ANet's line about "we underestimated how many people used Order of Undeath" made me laugh and cry. They just don't have a clue.) -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 03:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thousands of people left because some of their favorite skills were nerfed? Boo Fucking hoo.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 15:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you read? I said thousands of people left because ANet doesn't know how to balance their game. That's really more related to the fact that things got buffed than nerfed. Specifically, Wail of Doom, Dervishes, Paragons, and Assassins. (All of which got buffed by the fact that they were made to exist, before you claim that they've received nothing but nerfs [which would, in fact, be showing your ignorance, so I hope you don't do so]). -- Armond Warblade 02:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was just being an ass. Of course I know what's overpowered just as much as anyone who's brain is located in their skull, and not their ass. Still. QQing doesn't generally have much effect unless it's a mass bombardment like the Ursan deal. If it's anything less, I will show no pity to the fools who leave the game just because Dervishes and Assassins are kicking their ass. Or their favorite skill was nerfed. Or something. I loved Ursan Blessing but you don't see me quitting the game because it was nerfed into oblivion. I don't care. I have fun with what I got.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 02:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That reading suggestion of mine - give it a shot. I never said people were leaving because Dervishes, Assassins, or whatever are killing them, people are leaving because almost everything introduced beyond Prophesies is overpowered. Do you know why I left the game? It was because Dervishes and Paragons were overpowered as fuck. Do you know how many times I did PvP? Not a whole lot. It's top players (well, old school top players, from back when being top 200 meant something) that are leaving because of this reason. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 21:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Your loss. Quit bitching, IMO.-  Vanguard [[Image:User-VanguardAvatar.PNG]] 21:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Quit bitching isn't a valid argument. Please don't post here unless you have one. - Auron 21:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

There have been so many balancing threads since the arrival of factions, I lost count. Even when (if) ANet does good balancing updates, it doesn't get better. Now, the conclusion could be that ANet just doesn't know how to balance or that we are all whiny bastards. I don't believe in that. Imho, ANet ran into a huge trap by introducing more professions and more mechanics:


 * If you have 6 mechanics & 64 skill slots, you can easily bring 3 counters against each mechanic and still be left with 46 skill slots to do your own stuff
 * Once you have 16 mechanics, but still only 64 skill slots, just bringing 2 counters against each mechanic leaves you with 32 skill slots

Quite simply, the bigger number of mechanics makes it impossible to guard effectively against each of them and still do something on your own. Meaning you are left with either teams who guard against everything and do nothing (full defense), or teams who play a "my mechanic will kill faster than your mechanic" stone-scissors-paper build wars game.

To me, there is no possible solution apart from upping the number of skill slots (wont happen) or killing of entire mechanics (happening at times (Rit Spirit spam/Ranger Spirit spam/Minions factory), but players cry a lot if it happens). --Xeeron 14:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Weapon spells are a broken mechanic but making them both costly and active would proly deal with it.Paragons however are something way to hard to deal with :/.Sins are also very hard to balance.The problem imo with the new professions is that they dont have bull strike,blinding surge,coward,... they have WS to kill they have SP to ignore positioning they have shouts for pure power buffs they have spirits and unremovable weapon spells. IMO these classes just are PURE POWER.They dont NEED RoF they got weapon of remedy,They dont NEED bull strike they got iron palm,They dont need Aegis they got enough party boosting buffs and they dont NEED for example eviscerate they got WS to kill.Why use an Ias with a downside ias is for noobys lets go wounding strike + chilling + mystic or sumthin.

If they introduce new mechanics thing about balance first imo you dont have to bring a counter for everything but some mechanics are OP (shouts,chants,Shadowsteps,echo mending,...).Ok hexes are also OP but there is a difrence between something you can fix and something you cant :/ Lilondra   *poke*  17:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)