ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/PvE/Intensity

They should lower recharge to 25 seconds and cast time to 0.25. 83.171.167.88 14:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with the user above, also make it a skill without activation time, something like Critical Eye --MageMontu 14:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is used a lot in farm builds.--The Gates Assassin 23:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * the shout is a good idea, but i use this skill as it is in most of my farming builds, very useful when mixed with sliver armor 71.33.117.163 03:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Using this skill with Sliver armor is a stupid. Look at Ebon battle standard of honor. At rank 4 that one increases the damage by 9, that is 25%. For that increase you need intensity at rank 10!! It gets even worse. Weapons have autoabilities that increase damage by 15% and are basically always active. So Intensity only increases the damage by another 10% above that and only lasts for 10 seconds. On top of that skills like Triple Chop increase damage by up to 40 points! That means damage gets increased to 242% of the max damage of the axe!!!!
 * So physicals are always better than casters when it comes to damage? No shit, we knew that already. Why do you think the best necro PvE build is physical support (barbs, mark of pain, rigor mortis) with stuff like GDW and Splinter? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 14:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In PvE, no. &mdash;  Skakid  14:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In PvE, no. 87.189.190.132 12:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

When something it's intense, it has greater effects, but downsides are usually higher. It should add 1..2 points, while adding 50..25% more cost to all affected skills. 91.117.187.8 10:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be a waste of Energy and a skill slot. -- Gordon Ecker 03:45, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I want some of that Broken Armor! 66.75.136.251 01:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Since something intense it's something "acute", "concentrate", this skill could give less damage increase depending on the number of enemies it targets. Instead just making the spells deal % damage, it could deal %/number of targets. Making it really strong for single target spells. That would be intensification. MithTalk 14:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Bubbinska's Suggestion
I dislike this suggestion, as it would encourage profession stacking. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:31, 10 March 2009 (UTC) Added a second suggestion, probably needs a whole lot of stuff fixed about it (I can see it now, this + Mindbender + Firestorm = DEAAAATH) but I think it's in keeping with the idea of Intensity. I imagine this change would turn the skill into one of those "save for when it's needed" skills, so the player can unleash some serious death but effectively remove himself from play temporarily by way of massive exhaustion. Bubbinska 14:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Mith's proposal
Whoa, that's a bit complicated. I agree with the "issue" posted in your suggestion, but I think the proposed solution needs to be refined. How is the energy loss calculated for Damage-over-time spells, especially considering that targets can and often do move in and out of the blast area? For example casting Firestorm, you've got a whole 10 seconds in which the number of targets taking damage can fluctuate dramatically. I often cast on a large group of enemies, only to have them all run away. When is the energy lost, and how is the damage calculated? I do like what you're getting at with this suggestion, but it's a bit too fiddly IMO. With the goal of "increasing damage but trying to avoid overpowering large-area spells", why not something simple like "Whenever you cast a spell that targets a foe, you lose X energy and that foe takes X damage"? This means you've got a boost of power, while not being too complicated and not over-buffing the huge aoe stuff. Not that I'm really against giving the nuker a decent buff in the face of redundancy by way of RoJ and Cryers.
 * OK this is comment is very crowded so I'll organize it a bit -

Sorry to post a huge wall of text. Bubbinska 01:49, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When is the energy loss calculated?
 * Have you taken into account DoTAoEs tend to strike different numbers of targets during their active period?
 * Is the 100 damage cap fixed to the whole period of DoT, or each pulse?
 * What happens when you use Air Magic? Is the whole thing completely useless there, given that you'll be losing 10 energy every cast and only getting +100 damage?
 * What if I cast a spell and hit nobody (like Lava Font)? Do I lose 11 energy for nothing?
 * Yup, it needs a bit of work, the main idea is 'concentrated damage'. Anyways:
 * The energy lost is calculated upon skill activation. If you manage to lure enemies in after the cast, you'll save energy. That's good, sine it adds more strategy, being easier just to gather enmies around a tank and then nuking them.
 * The damage would be calculated every time the spell 'hits'. For example: a skill deals 5 hits of 100 damage, and enemies enter after the casting:
 * 1st hit: 1 enemies. 200 damage.
 * 2nd hit: 1 enemy enter: 2 enemies. 150 damage each.
 * 3rd hit: 2 enemies enter: 4 enemies. 125 damage each.
 * 4th hit: 7 enemies enter and 1 dies: 10 enemies. 110 damage each.
 * 5th hit, 3 enemies die: 7 enemies: 114 damage each.
 * The 100 damage cap is for each hit. So the skill would intensify much more a skill that various hits than a skill that deals a single one. But you'll deal less damage anyways against higher armor and damage absorption.
 * With air magic, the damage is added before the damage penetration calculation. With a Lighting Hammer, you'll get 100+100=200 damage, and then penetrate armor, dealing around 260 damage with a total cost of 35. But now that I come to think of it, maybe the energy cost should be a % of the cost of the original skill, or it would be unfair for low-cost skills. Maybe "10% of the cost of the original skill" instead "1 Energy cost". That way a 5 Energy skill will cost 8 Energy when its damage is doubled, instead 15, and a 25 Energy skill would cost 37 instead 35.
 * Since the energy is lost upon skill activation, If you activate a skill and no valid targets are found for the effect (something that can only happen with PBAoE skills that actually target self), you lose no energy, because the effect activates when targets are found, like with the Spirit of Anguish. But if you activate a skill and targets 'escape' like what can happen with projectile spells or Meteor, then you do lose the energy.
 * That should cover all your doubts. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a good idea I think but should be simplified for ease of implementation. I think there's a problem with DoTAoEs and the damage cap. I did some calculation for you:


 * We're comparing Firestorm, Lava Font and Fireball, the latter two have the most similar cost/cast/recharge for comparison. We're assuming that since the spell hits 1 target, that either 10 energy is lost or 100% of the cost of the spell, which also adds up to 10 energy.
 * We're casting the spells at a single target, at max Sunspear (200% bonus) and 16 fire magic. Both spells are adjacent.
 * Firestorm @ 16 fire magic = 37 damage per second + 200% (74) = 111 damage per second, potential total = 1110 damage, up from 370 (740 bonus damage)
 * Lava Font @ 16 fire magic = 53 damage per second + 200% (capped at 100) = 153 damage per second, potential total = 765, up from 265 (500 bonus damage)
 * Fireball @ 16 fire magic = 119 damage + 200% (capped at 100) = 219 damage, up from 119 (100 bonus damage)
 * All spells lose the same amount of energy for the one cast, but Fireball yields far less because its damage boost only occurs once and hits the cap quickly, providing less than 100% bonus damage.
 * All spells are affected the same amount by armor, but Firestorm and Lava Font are affected more by damage absorption like Shielding Hands.
 * The bonus damage given to firestorm is a whopping 640% more than the boost the single-hit spell receives, while the boost from lava font is 400% more than Fireball's. The damage boost is the same across multiple targets, too, since the damage is distributed evenly, and even if the damage bonus is "only" 100%, the Fireball caps out at 100, Firestorm gets a bonus of 370 damage (270% more damage) and Lava Font gets 265 (165% better damage).
 * I think it needs something to balance out the discrepancies that come from any low-damage spell. Lightning Bolt would get a 100 damage boost, pushing it up to a 10 energy 150 damage hit with 5 second recharge, similar for Lightning Javelin. Maybe we should compile a list of features that the skill should adhere to. I like the idea of "focused damage boost, energy penalty", and think it's high time Intensity got a quality balance suggestion considering how useless it is right now. Sorry again for my non-sensical posting, I hope it's easy enough to understand. Bubbinska 14:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wrong numbers. I meant you deal 150%..200% damage, not +150...200%. That is, +50%..+100%. Lightning bold would deal (7..61..75)..(10...82...100) and withe my last change in costs of energy, it will cost 8 energy. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 22:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)