User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Dervish/Archive 1

At the moment I dont see many uses this skill has besides negating the cost of Chilling Victory, or Lyssa's Assault. I would like to see a buff that allows something like this:

Attacker's Insight: Enchantment Spell. For 20 seconds, your next attack Skill costs 5...17...20 less Energy. When this enchantment ends, you recieve 1...9...10 energy.

Any thoughts?--Atlas Oranos 23:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Make it lower the cost of your next 1...3 attack skills by 5...10e. That would actually do something useful and make it worth investing in wind.  --Symbol 11:23, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Along with the next 1...3 attack skills, make it not end, but just do nothing. That helps with Mystic Healing and Mystic Twister. Also helps with Windwalker Insignias. --Deathwing 11:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * top3 most useless skill in the game. I cannot imagine what substances was skill balancer using upon creation of this skill which to this day has absolutely no use. Rework skill: "You have 75% chance to dodge attack skills used on you." Or anything fun, it doesn't have to even be playable in serious PvP. Servant of Kali 13:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I like your change symbol, but max it at 10 so people would play it seriously.--Atlas Oranos 10:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I really like Symbol's suggestion too, but i think i'd even raise it to 1..4 attack skills. It makes the 3 attack skills at a more realistic breakpoint (8 winds) while you'd need a serious investment for 4 (13 winds). I'd even be fine with a fix -5E tbh, so that it can't be abused by Assassins using many expensive skills, etc. (can easily think of something like Unsuspecting-Golden Skull Crack-Twisting Fangs... damn powerful combo for 0E) Patccmoi 14:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That would actually be good though. No SP, No lead skipping offhand, and a rather underpowered attribute line getting used. --Deathwing 15:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I was told not to delete anything, so can someone clean this? After new patch there is no need for this skill to be in this section anymore. Servant of Kali 13:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill has always sucked in comparison to any other speed boost the Dervish has... and I honestly dont know how to buff it. But, this skill deserves a spot in the underpowered skills section.--Atlas Oranos 10:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * All this skill would need is a recharge time reduced to 18-20 for the maintainability that other running stances for dervishes don't have, apart from pious haste, but then that's not always viable. --Ckal Ktak 14:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Lower recharge to 15s (kinda lame) or raise move speed to 33%. Or realize that maybe Wind Prayers doesn't really require 4-5 running skills and this one is stupid and subpar to all the other ones, and so change it to either an IAS or something that recharges skills faster (for example, while you are enchanted your attack skills recharge 25% faster. Or enchantments that are cast on yourself recharge 33% faster. Etc.). Patccmoi 14:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

,, , ,
Would it really be overpowered to give the nearby range back and reduce the energy cost to 5, since mysticism and the damage on all of them were nerfed?--Atlas Oranos 18:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure Nearby is a great idea tbh, because it IS risky. What i'd rather see is stay adjacent, but greatly lower their recharge (around 5s), energy cost for some, and slightly raise damage. Then it can't be used to mass spike or something, but they become at least interesting as pbAOE of sort and as 'put up->strip' enchants. Patccmoi 18:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I agree that nearby is risky, but they also received nerfs to damage if I remember right, I'm not really sure that a skill that deals 76 damage would be a huge threat, for a spike you'd have to take 8 people to even break the 600 hp point in terms of damage.--Atlas Oranos 19:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The cast time on these skills is pretty painful. Just cutting the cast time down to 1/4 would be a huge plus. --Deathwing 19:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Fails as energy management, OR fails at self heal. This skill could possibly be interesting, but the recharge just kills it. --Deathwing 04:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Totally agreed. Should be 5/1/8. Would give a nice option for split Dervs while still staying inferior to Wind Prayers heals (at least in potential, cause stuff like Dwayna's Touch have really high potential that's not always easy to meet reliably) Patccmoi 15:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill requires a shorter recharge. Pressure-wise, it's not effective because of this, and the condition for the DW is not actually easy to meet (because you have to get the guy below 50% first WITHOUT using a DW, and then you have to hit your DW before the guy gets healed... not easy to do in 8v8 at all). The damage is great, i wouldn't ask to change the condition for the DW because it makes the skill a little harder to use well but very deadly when it triggers, but the recharge needs to be lowered so you can use this to pressure and not always have to save it in case you'll have to use it to spike. 8s recharge really makes you want to save it, and in the end you end up not using it often at all. My suggestion, 8r -> 4r. Then at least it recharges fast enough to use it to pressure and have it ready when you want to spike someone down too. Patccmoi 17:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's fairly good in unorganized play but certainly underpowered in GvG. Perhaps lower the recharge and give it some karate-chop quality?  (1 s or 3/4 activation) ~Seef II &lt;☎&gt; 17:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Fast attack could be very useful. Wonder if it risks being too good, but it would make this some sort of elite Mystic Sweep. 5/.75/4 with +10..40d and DW if <50% would make this a lot more powerful. I'd even be fine with lowering the damage to +10..30 with those stats. Patccmoi 18:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I like Patccmoi's first suggestion more, though - the extra damage this skill has over everything else is useful, given how such trait is unique to this skill. Keeping it as it is, with a 4 seconds recharge, would make it perfect, IMO. Erasculio 18:17, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know about lowering recharge since it does like +34 at 12 Scythe, which is wtfpwn damage. If you have it at 4r, then yes, now the Dervish can ram that button and do massive damage as pressure. I think if you're looking for +damage skills there are plenty available to Dervs already for pressure. This skill just gives them the ability to basically instakill anything below 50% since you can immediately follow up with a 3/4 attack. I don't actually feel too bad about myself when I swing my scythe for 140 and don't cause Deep Wound. I'm in favor of buffing skills that require skill and can provide utility to the game rather than giving Dervs another option to do ridiculous damage. The argument of "it recharges fast enough to use it to pressure and have it ready when you want to spike someone down too" is like, I wish I could use Eviscerate every 4 seconds. Then I remember Wearying Strike on Melandru's, and I don't really think that improves the overall quality of gameplay. --Miranzor 18:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The big thing though is that you have to use this on a Derv that DOESN'T have Melandru, Balthazar, or any other elite to help staying alive. And suddenly, he's in the range of very spikable target that can't just overextend at will going after monks as if nobody could hurt him at all. And he can be blinded too. And mostly it's not really like Eviscerate every 4s because you don't find people below 50% at will and even those you see, they're not that easy to hit with it before they get healed, because monks rarely leave people below 50% for more than a sec unless they're really shutdowned or out of energy at which point you don't really need to spike the guy straight to kill.Patccmoi 18:49, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The discussion here isn't based on "Wow, Reaper's Sweep is so bad, it needs a buff," but more so based on "Wow, wtf this Melandru is hacking my team." I totally disagree that Reaper's needs any kind of buff when looking at the skill individually. There's a myriad of skills which are very clearly worse than this skill. Reaper's Sweep to me is like an Executioner's Strike you can use every 8s and it has another ability that makes even more like an executioner's strike in that if they're under 50% they're dead. However, I do understand that this may not be the best skill to use in GvG and you want to basically give Dervs more options than Melandru's. However, I just don't think buffing a skill because another one is overpowered is a good way to improve overall gameplay. But I do acknowledge your argument for the buff which I hadn't really gone over before. The question now becomes: since Dervishes have lower AL than warriors, should they be compensated with MUCH more damage? I can't really give an opinion on this subject since the only 8v8 Dervishes I have seen are Melandru's, which are unspikable half the time, and Reaper's Sweep Dervs with JI running around wrecking everybody, even warriors. RoF/Guardian doubled as protection for the latter Dervs and gave them infinite energy to ram every attack button they had as much as possible, as well as making them unspikable without taking out the smiter.--Miranzor 19:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think part of the concerns here aren't about comparing a Melandru's Dervish with one using Reaper's Sweep - but rather how there is little a Dervish could do in the current game other than using Melandru with Wearying Strike. When that combination (AoM with WS) is nerfed...Are the dervishes going to be used in other roles, or are they going to be replaced by warriors? I don't think the dervishes currently have anything that would make the former, instead of the later, to happen - buffing Reaper's Sweep is one of the many possible buffs that could prevent such replacement to happen, IMO. Erasculio 19:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I just read Izzy's post regarding Melandru's, and he focuses on diversity of gameplay and basically supports new things. That's why I didn't make my post bashing Steady Stance. Yes, it does let you use Drunken/Desperation Blow, two skills which would probably never be used otherwise. Does that mean I like seeing W/D running around, essentially with ZERO skill involved playing their build? The difference between an unskilled warrior and a skilled one was absolutely enormous in GW before NF came out. I don't believe this gap should be crossed by pushing a button. Warrior is (was) probably THE hardest GvG class to play in that you spearheaded the offense as the frontline. If something was shutting you down, it was EXTREMELY doubtful your offense was going smoothly so it was required of you to communicate to your Mesmer, Ranger, etc. to correct this shutdown problem, leading to teamwork. If your frontline wasn't talking, how would you kill? Random Lightning Orbs aren't really that effective in my experience. In a build like eurohex, you barely even need to talk. It's like "hey what's up guys, alright, humility on LoD and migraine on divert, let's push, gg" However, if we're just looking for new gameplay mechanics, then yeah definitely buff Reaper's as it might introduce something new to the meta, which seems to bore a lot of people these days. My views on OP/UP skills revolves around skill balance, especially when considering player ability-linked skills (defined but not limited in any way by interrupts), not new ways to play the game. The way I play/enjoy the game basically doesn't involve hitting a skill every four seconds regardless of the situation. Whether or not that leads to winning is a different issue.--Miranzor 19:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's nice, but you're trying to create a dicotomy where hasn't to be one. Unless you automatically assume that it's impossible to have a Dervish requiring skill to be played, and that such thing is only possible with warriors, buffs such as the one proposed here for Reaper's Sweep are going to be necessary in order for dervishes to see play. This specific buff may not be required, but some kind of buffing will be, once the current trick is fixed. Erasculio 19:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow I'm getting bored of reading about Melandru Dervs. Its like every time someone mentions a dervish, and sometimes when people don't even mention dervish, this gets brought up. --Deathwing 19:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry... have you tried illiteracy? I hear ignorance is bliss... --Miranzor 19:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I understand your point about the damage of Dervish. But really Reaper's Sweep is only about 10 more damage than stuff like Mystic Sweep (and that's using Major/Sup with max Scythe), and not even 10 more than Victorious Sweep, both of which are half the recharge. It's nice, but it's not what causes the damage to be so scary when you got JI Dervs bashing people, it's just the base Scythe damage in the end combined with all the other stuff (that basically requires 2 characters, so that Scythe Derv is actually doing the pressure of 2 guys's worth of damage, or at least 1.5 cause the support guy can usually buff/support 2). Dragon Slash Warriors with a smiter were doing very scary pressure too while still being able to tank much more by cancelling Frenzy. So the main thing i see that would change if you put Reaper's on a shorter recharge (and maybe 4s is too short. If it is, say 5s, or 6s, but 8s really feels quite long) is that it frees a skill slot because it can be used to pressure too and to actually GET someone below 50%. Right now either you auto-attack and hope someone will get below 50% by someone else and then you use Reaper's, or you use Reaper's to get someone below 50% but you can't kill him then. Or you use 2 attack skills ON TOP of Reaper's, and then you don't have any kind of versatility on the build.

I gotta say one of the thing i'd aim for with the buff to this and Wounding Strike would be to free skill slots on offensive Dervishes so that they can bring some of those interesting utility skills Dervishes have but that you never really have room to put on your bar. If Reaper's recharge goes down some, you could be fine with only Reaper's + Mystic/Eremite as attack skills.

And it's not suggested because Melandru is overpowered. Really i want Melandru more than anything else buffed. But the thing is assume Melandru isn't there, what are Dervishes left with? If they don't do more damage pressure than warriors, why do you bring a guy with a lower AL up front? I agree it must not be retarded, but in a sense it should be at least equal on single target with the potential to hit more than one being their bonus for being frail. If their utility isn't at least as interesting as warriors (and it can be different, imo mostly with a mix of healing and enchant control instead of kd and interrupts), why would you bring them? Atm the answer to bring a Dervish is nearly brainless : you want a guy that's immune to conditions, can overextend at will and destroys VoD. But when you take a character that doesn't meet at least the 2 first requirements (and destroying at VoD isn't easy if you're dead, it's like trying to rush a sin in the middle of archers, it doesn't work quite well), what does it has left over a warrior?

I don't see without Melandru how Dervishes could compete with warriors atm. Their utility isn't really functional. Their ability to spike without Wearying is BAD and if they use an elite DW it should be at least at the level of Eviscerate because they're frail. Reaper's atm is extremely hard to use well because the DW isn't reliable, and you must take the guy low BEFORE you can DW. If at least you could also use it to lower people a bit, it would help and you wouldn't need to fill your bar with attack skills. Maybe my suggestion isn't the best way to do it, but it's one that i could see working Patccmoi 19:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that Melandru is overpowered, but I'm not saying it should be nerfed or reworked because of the reasons you listed. They have huge advantages over warriors for the reasons you listed, as well has a the ability to use Wild Blow that lets them beat any stances that might mitigate their damage. This isn't really competition. It's like, do you like having a heavy advantage of being immune to conditions half the time and being able to destroy archers VoD? Yes = bring derv. No = that's fine, use a warrior, it's not like that decision loses the game for you. I personally favor warriors a lot, but they don't really have much of the versatility you mention. They pretty much have an average of 3 attack skills, a stance, that bar is pretty full and doesn't really leave much room for anything else. Their low energy and low pips also means they're extremely limited in secondary class skills. This leads me to think that Dervs shouldn't be able to equal or do more damage than warriors AND have versatility. Then what use would warriors have at all? My argument isn't really don't buff Reaper's Sweep because that would be OP oh noes, it's more like, buff the tons of other skills in the game that aren't even as good as Reaper's Sweep before doing that, please.


 * Well, warriors have versatility in what they do on the field. They can interrupt, they can knock for disables at key times on key targets, etc. A bar with like Evis-Exec-Agonizing/DBlow-Bull's Strike-Shock-Frenzy-Rush can do sooo much in a fight. If your Dervish can only pressure swinging their Scythe, they're not as interesting at all. I'd want the Scythe elites to allow Dervishes to have a pressure that's similar to warrior while giving them more room for their utility. I mean, an 'ideal' Dervish bar that would be interesting without Melandru would be something like Elite Scythe attack, scythe attack 2, IAS of sort, IMS of sort, 3 utility that would likely be a mix of snares, enchant removal, self-heal/party heal because that's the sort of utility where Dervish excels more than warriors. But if the Scythe elites aren't doing enough and force you to pick too many other scythe attacks to achieve anything, you lose too much on utility.
 * You don't need to tell me what a Shock warrior can do. That build does a lot, but it also does a lot of nothing when blinded, hexed, snared, target in Wards, etc. which is preciously the metagame. The warriors aren't really in control; they rely on Ranger/Mesmer to breakdown the defense. If they have no anti-warrior mitigation then yes, W/E can just run around with a field day and destroy everything. That bar you described sounds like an Axe war with Eviscerate, Executioner's, Frenzy, Rush, Bull's Strike, Rending Touch, Healing Signet. Elite attack, attack 2, IAS, IMS, snare, enchant removal, self-heal. So therefore Derv must bring something unique to the game, and that's in the form of Melandru's at the moment. I don't see how a Reaper's Sweep buff is going to actually change the metagame since all it does really is make you weak to blind spam.--Miranzor 22:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I fully agree that other skills in the game are much worse than Reaper's Sweep is atm, but changing most of them wouldn't really change anything in the end either. But if you want Dervishes to have another bar except Melandru that has some appeal, they need another elite that's worth building a bar around. Since i think their elite 'utility' skills like Vow of Silence are kinda garbage in a balanced setups, and their non-elite scythe attacks can't cause DW except Wearying which is quite bad without Melandru, it pretty much only leaves you with the elite Scythe attacks to buff. Maybe one exception is Ebon Dust Aura, but this skill is already fine, but it's not meant for an offensive Dervish. Patccmoi 20:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's pretty much agreed on that any elite that only works on yourself like Vow of Silence is generally not as useful in any team situation like GvG. If you're talking about appeal, I completely understand the argument, it's just that I have no desire to play Dervish in the first place and therefore no appeal so I guess I am biased against them. This is a personal issue so unless you actually know me like Patccmoi, don't bring it up in a counter-argument. Also, I think Dervish are going to always have a niche role and absolutely need something like Melandru's since they are one of the newest profession and only have a handful of elites to choose from compared to the original six classes which have a ridiculous amount more of versatility.--Miranzor 22:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Why is everyone trying to change used skills, instead of fixing first those in the extremes (never used or overpowered)? Personally, I never use Reapers because I think it's underpowered, but as long as so many people use it, there's no need to buff this skill with so many Dervish skills which need a buff. Why not start with Wind Prayers, making it usable for start. Then go to Earth Prayers and make those offensive enchantments playable and fun, because that's what Dervish is supposed to be - enchantment maniac. Unlike the current Pious Haste no-enchants Dervishes. Mysticism and Scythe Mastery aint perfect, but it's OK for start. Servant of Kali 13:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the whole enchantment mechanic in competitive play is a sorry mess, one that's incredibly narrow (D/N orders or similar) or simply ignored. I'd also argue that enchantments require more effort than their payoff in PvE, except for 130 HP farming, but PvE isn't where balance revolves around, as basically any build works fine there.  Why try to reinvent the wheel and buff all the junk like Rending Aura or Vow of Strength when you have lines that already work, and need only nudges to become competitive?  The way ArenaNet buffs, in baby steps, has given us ritspike, and I'd really hate to see D-way again like in the preview weekend.  I think Anet's learned their lesson and probably won't try to salvage a mechanism that wasn't well-thought out in the first place. ~Seef II &lt;☎&gt; 08:47, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I actually made many suggestions to fix Wind Prayers and Earth Prayers before (many didn't get on this page though). But the thing is, Reaper's Sweep is an elite that has the potential to become a competitive one in 8v8. Most simply don't. And since i believe Avatar of Melandru getting a nerf would be good for the game, then Dervs need another COMPETITIVE elite. Atm, i think that Wounding Strike and Reaper's Sweep have the most potential with some tweaks to become strong elites for offensive Dervishes, while Ebon Dust is fine for defensive ones or arenas. Avatar of Balth's isn't too bad imo but badly suffers from a lack of non-elite DW (my favorite Avatar of Balth's build in PvP uses Augury of Death...). I could suggest buffing Onslaught because i believe it's aweful, but i don't see any buff to it that would lead to a GvG-worthy Dervish bar. Patccmoi 14:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd actually rather see some of the other elites buffed. I'm not a huge fan of buffing wannabe-spike skills such as Reaper's Sweep; I don't want to see Dervish as a spike character but more of a pressure/mesmerish. That being said, I'd rather see Zealous Vow used in GvG and make Dervishes indeed whirling warriors. Balthazar is weak, IMO it's the weakest of Avatars by far. Can't believe you're using it! ;)) Dwayna is the best in Arenas, along with Lyssa, Melandru is used in GvG, Grenth got pwned so let's not count it.. and Balthazar I didn't like to use even when running in PvE. With the armor cap perhaps it got slightly better but still no ty. I'm not exactly sure what that skill needs but I don't like it. Instead of Reaper's Sweep, why not buff Vow of Strenght? It's far more interesting elite, it has a nice drawback - not utility attack skills, and attack skills don't add armor-ignoring plus damage. This is an underestimated drawback which is quite serious. Buffing this skill would open more options, and it might actually get interesting (granted, you could use Pious to remove Vow at a convenient time and use an attack skill, but that requires even more planning and is not as practical). So, you sacrifice an elite to do constant pressure damage, and it would push for more teamwork (Judges Insight for instance). I'm not saying "make this skill overpowered" but rather buff that than Reaper's IMO. BTW, as I said, im biased towards any spike-like skills ;) Servant of Kali 17:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually Vow of Strength requires no buff. It's a good skill, and buffing it (raising damage for instance) would only risks breaking things. The problem is that it lacks stuff to use with it that synergizes well. I ran Vow of Strength for a while, even ran it in GvG. The thing is, just auto-attacking is too random to really accomplish anything reliably. Sometimes i'd get lucky and get ridiculous spikes that would kill someone nearly straight (i was using Augury of Death too though. But getting a sundering proc on a crit in Vow + JI with Augury triggering on top is ridiculous, over 300 damage in one hit when you count DW), and sometimes i'd hit for a long while without really doing any real damage because i wasn't lucky. And anytime you use utility, you hit less and since your whole pressure relies on hitting a lot to get lucky hits, it fails. If there was some good mix of damage/effect enchants to use along (all those stuff like Dust Cloak, Staggering Force, etc.) then you could potentially make a great build. But atm, it's very hard. But i don't think Vow in itself is a problem, it's more all the rest of Dervish non-elites that fail. Hell, my Vow of Strength build used 3-4 /A skills i think, because even ASSASSIN utility was better than Derv's (stuff like Augury of Death, Disrupting Dagger, Siphon Speed...). Vow of Strength is a potentially good elite if Earth prayers non-elite stuff becomes attractive in the least and if you could have a decent IAS without high investment in Mysticism (that also fails, and using Frenzy on a Derv tends to be suicidal. Pious Fury will likely be too short and you don't want to strip enchants THAT much with Vow of Strength...).


 * Zealous Vow isn't bad, but it's not promoting any good gameplay either, the best thing you can do with it is stack short activation attack skills and then do 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 over and over on recharge. Not sure i want to see this made any better. It already works as intended


 * Avatar of Balth's is actually quite underrated imo. I mainly liked the nearly permanent 33% IMS/33% IAS with Heart of Fury (Heart at 14 Myst with 20% longer enchant wasn't too bad, though i still dislike it as main Derv IAS), which combined with 120AL and Holy damage (so can't get any shield with +damage against it) allows you to easily pressure a backline hard. I added /A utility on it too (Augury of Death, DDagger, etc.) and some Dervish enchant removal. Might be even more interesting when Pious Fury-Grenth's Aura is out. What i mainly liked about this avatar, when i tried replacing it with others, is that the 33% move speed buff saved me a skill slot which allowed me to fit more utility on the bar. When i used Lyssa, or even Melandru, i was hurting for that skill slot since i wanted to fit DW, interrupt and enchant removal while still having good DPS with attack skills and IAS. It's not better than Melandru overall though, ofc.


 * And i understand that Reaper's might not be the most deserving of a buff. Tbh i'd much prefer to see the buff i suggested for Wounding Strike than Reaper's, because i think a Wounding Strike bar would be more interesting. But with a 4s recharge Reaper's you could make some interesting bars out of it too, and that's the main thing i'm thinking atm : what elite could allow for an interesting bar? I could buff Zealous Vow all i want, i'm pretty sure exactly what the bar would be like, and it's not really something interesting overall imo. Reaper's has the potential for interesting bar. A Wounding Strike working like i suggested (bleeding, dw, damage, then disabled) would allow for even MORE interesting bars since it could work as only attack skill. Vow of Strength has the potential for good bars, but that's only if Earth Prayers non-elites are buffed seriously, and it doesn't need any buff in itself Patccmoi 17:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I always felt VoS lacks just a tiny bit to be properly usable. It's not horrible skill, don't get me wrong, but it just doesn't do enough for drawback it has, or at least I haven't seen anyone make use of this yet. Those I've met in RA using it didn't impress me :)) I remember calculations you guys had in that let's-not-advertise-it-forum, which was awhile ago. I tried VoS then and it was meh. However, I think you may be right, It could just be a lack of utility (i never use Earth for instance, don't know what to use there aside of elites and perhaps Mystic Regen). About your random damage, have you tried something like Focus Anger + GtfE with.. let's say 2 VoS Dervishes? Just out of curiosity, wouldn't damage be quite interesting then? BTW I noticed you use a lot that overpowered Augury skill ;))) ccc shame on you :) About Balthazar, what do you do in its downtime? I still dislike this skill because it makes me feel wammoish. Perhaps because I never tried it in GvG, and in Arenas Dwayna and Lyssa beat it badly (at least from my experience). Servant of Kali 18:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What if Reaper's Sweep always dealt a critical hit, and the Deep Wound condition is also fulfilled if it takes the target below 50% heath? I'd use it then.  [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]]| GD Defender  /  contribs 18:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please, no. Just no. No to spike skills. Critical hit on a Dervish? Plus deep wound? And +dmg? No. Servant of Kali 19:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I gotta agree. This would make it a Decapitate with no drawback. On a scythe. Eek. My aim was to turn this into a mix of pressure and spike (good for pressure if > 50%, good for spike if < 50%). But it shouldn't become STRONGER, because its strength is very, very good already. It's mostly the recharge that hurts when using this. Patccmoi 19:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed, let's not overbuff it. A reduction in the recharge to 5 or 6 would be enough.  Until Melandru gets nerfed there's really no reason to run this in GvG in any case. ~Seef II &lt;☎|→&gt; 00:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)