Talk:Game updates/20071113

ok spirits are understandable but revert the soul reaping back 2 how it 1nc was b4 spirts came into play User:Seth warmonger

Mhenlo's elite
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10217989 <-- inspiration for a change mirite? - Auron 01:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Talk:Game_updates#RIP_LoD <--GuildWiki too.[[Image:User Ereanor sig.jpg]]reanor 02:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Talk:Game_updates [[Image:User-brains12-sigicon5.png|Talk|14px]] br12  • 15:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

/fail
--Deathwing 01:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather good change IMO. I think Izzy's recent talks with Ensign have helped :p - Auron 01:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Some of them were called for, I agree. But this still just removes builds from the game, it adds nothing back into it. -_Deathwing 01:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I honestly hope that Ensign did not tell him to buff Barrage because they removed pet corpses or something like that... sorry, I would like to hear if that is the "positive" outcome of talks between Ensign and Izzy, brrrr! *shivers* --Longasc 11:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably a result of Volley filling the same roll as Barrage almost as well an elite Buddah668 16:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol? if stuff that gets removed is overpowered shit, i'm all fine with it. and every pvper should be. now the game just need to have every single sin skill brought up to 25 energy and this game is SO fine. and shadowsteps cause quadruple exhaustion. --82.59.132.17 01:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, along with making all monk skills deal 200 damage to the target. Now that would be fun. --Deathwing 01:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Sway just got owned, about time, 6 months too late IMO.

but i think the decrease in WoH is bad. We need to be able to run 2 monk backlines in tombs. Or matches will be too long, and everything will be terribly defensive. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.10.145.41 (talk &bull; contribs) 03:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC).


 * They pretty much assassinated the assassin's ability to assassinate... Rename profession to condition tickler Imo --97.100.141.74 01:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If games take so long nowadays with 3monks it's b/c A.Net has nerfed all the damage - GG. I agree with the person above who said that ever though some of these changes were needed, they only REMOVE builds out of the game instead of promoting diversity. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.168.232.32 (talk &bull; contribs) 03:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * mate, there's NO diversity in this game. go in random arena: woh monk, soj sin, soj sin, bha ranger, woh monk, shockaxe warrior, bha ranger, sp sin, antimelee necro, spirit spammer, sp sin, soj sin, soj sin. go in gvg: sp split sin, antimelee necro, dom mesmer, shockaxe, shockaxe ecc.ecc.ecc. But a char like a shockaxe war it's NOT imbalanced. to spike he must first charge adren and then expose to frenzy. overpowered shit like hex sins, soj sins, have no real downsides if you can actually be a human and not a monkey and kite-flee battles. --82.59.132.17 01:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly, so they nerf 3 of them builds. How does that add diversity? Now instead of seeing 7-8 different builds, you see 4-5. --Deathwing 01:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, before adding your beloved "diversity", one must first kick out of the game stuff that's clearly better than the rest. AFTER this process, then you add "diversity". Still this game offers great possibilities that people never uses, e.g. smiters, mass aoe builds, strange combos like equinox+arcane languor, nr-tr builds and so on. why use other possibilities if you have imba shit you can pwn people with? Sorry if you dont understand my point, and i'm sorry but i dont understand yours. overall balance > diversity. --82.59.132.17 01:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop running your "builds" and create fun random skill sets, make every match like a sealed tourney, trust me, its really fun Melandrus judge 02:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Except you play against people who are not running the sealed tourny, and just get your ass handed to you. Thats fun too. --Deathwing 02:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

......... i was comparing the matchs to sealed tourneys, obviously putting 8 random skills on your bar wont work, just doint get so set in on 1-2 builds, and never use anything else, i mean i never see rangers who run sweet skills like Melandrus arrows...Melandrus judge 21:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Cos it's a bad skill? His point wasn't to use random shit, it was just that when you're using your "sealed deck" skills and you come across someone using all the skills, you're going to lose. - Auron 22:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Do assassins official fail now? or are there still some builds that can kill somebody in a go? (i.e. not 2 or 5 or 28 attack runs.) Warning: the previous sentence contains sarcasm and may not be appropriate for all viewers, viewer discretion is advised. --Lou-Saydus 06:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ranger changes
Okaaay. Why don't you just tell all us PvE rangers to just delete our characters instead of this death by a thousand nerfs crud. Trappers, RIP. Barrage/Pet groups, RIP. --Valshia 01:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you see barrage? Great job on that. The pet thing makes no sense lore-wise and frankly I don't see how it was needed. (spirits are already dead or whatnot, so they have no soul. Mango 01:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, how is this a nerf for PVE rangers? If anything it's a nerf for maybe Zaishen farming trappers, but energizing wind isn't used by most proper rangers who use a bow and such.--Darksyde Never Again 01:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Barrage/Pet tombs is what I think Val's talking about. --97.100.141.74 01:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep. Also, and team trapping use EW.  Trapping encompasses a lot more than just Zaishen Challenge.  And seriously, +4 damage on barrage isn't much compensation.  --Valshia 01:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * WTF is the little buff on Barrage for? Countering the B/P screw up :S?[[Image:User Ereanor sig.jpg]]reanor 02:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * B/P was aimed at providing corpses for the MM. The nerf isn't barrage, barrage was buffed. Without the corpses from the pets B/P is an almost pointless build. One of the most useful aspects of a pet was removed from the game in this build. I don't understand it, how were pets being exploited? 58.110.139.185 06:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol? Any half-decent MM can make corpses out of enemies instead of allies. Armond 06:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe they really hated the idea of a pet being better off dead than alive. It is a really cheap minion factory, and this is coming from a MM himself. Just take a Proper warrior tank into tombs and make all of the rangers spliter barragers with no pet. works just fine. --Ckal Ktak 08:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe the nerf won't kill PvE Rangers and the usual teams, but it's certainly killed PvE pets: with the minion factory thing gone there's just no point in bringing pets to a PvE party now. They're too weak and uncontrollable to accomplish anything else, except with weird "beastmaster" style builds that usually suck. --130.234.176.241 15:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Barrage is already so dominant in PvE, why buff it even more. It is hard enough to justify another elite to use for a Ranger, and I bet it is BHA. Why buff something that already sees widespread use and acceptance??? I also wonder which builds relied on pets providing corpses from pets, it was for sure not PvE. There are already many areas in EOTN and other chapters where MM's are a total waste, while the pet-corpse-nerf does nothing to stop the power of MMs in missions like Vizunah. I totally do not get it, it is so artificial that it hurts. But pets still give soul reaping energy, so... and speaking about soul reaping: This is what should have been done before they came up with "3x in 15 seconds" crap, just no energy from spirits. But ways to bring the Necro class into pvp play besides for abusing SR in game modes where it is possible, no, nothing at all. Sorry to talk about this in the ranger section, but pets, corpses and MM's are connected. --Longasc 12:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing is ever balanced for PvE, that's just how it is, the repucussions of how this changes rangers for PvE are nothing compared to the fact it allows more archers and fewer thumpers in PvP. --Ckal Ktak 12:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Lucky for me, my pet is nothing more than a free IAS (See: Never Rampage Alone)  Vanguard  15:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

All you little Ranger whiners have to quit, well, WHINING! What about us Necros, with that STUPID Soul Reaping Nerf?!? I mean, come on! I wish they would change things in PVP ONLY and leave PVE untouched. I never play PVP specifically because there's so many exploits. Anything that makes the game more fun, or adds more possibilities to the game are welcomed by me, but things like the Soul Reaping nerf are a BIG No-no. I have not played on my Necromancer, rank 2 Survivor, Protector of all 3 Continents, since that silly SR nerf. How's that for "BOO HOO my pet doesn't leave a corpse anymore!"?? --ChristopherRodrigues 18:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Too bad for you? For like the gazillionth time, they can't only change PvP and not PvE without massively recoding the game. I've been playing my necro just fine throughout all the SR nerfs. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 19:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Talking about Whining... They compensated for that patch with a reduction of energy costs of many spells. And even in its current "nerfed" form soulreaping is the most powerful primary attribute for casters. Why do you think are there so many n/any around, because most of the time a n/any is better than the any/x. 134.130.183.235 00:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I still havn't seen a reason for the change to nerf pet corpses... it doesn't make sense and seems to have come out of no-where. It would be nice if someone could identify some logic behind it. 58.110.139.185 03:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

How is SR nerfed? I know you're upset and all about the spirit thing, but we were seeing too many N/Rt spirit spammers in RA and it was getting just plain stupid. SR is just fine the way it is, in PVE i can cast Animate Bone Fiend as soon as it recharges, almost every time. 10 Bone fiends isn't hard to accomplish, and in total it costs 250 energy + maintenence. If you're unhappy with SR, stop playing Necromancer, instead of complaining about GW all the time, be grateful the game exists and gives you some entertainment.--Darksyde Never Again 19:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe going back to ranger changes, I can sort of see where this is coming from. Again, Tomes was becoming too easy (though even with this, any decent mm can make an army fine), but really pets were more useful as minion fodder than what I beleive to be the original intent of pets. I sincerely doubt that Anet will address the real need of a rework of the pet system in guild wars one, but I can hope for guild wars two. I can see it was a great idea at first, but they would balance and buff and nerf professions and skills over time, but I would challenge you to bring me 5 updates in Guild Wars history in which pet functions have changed...Pets were sort of left behind. And though there are some fun builds involving pets, only one really works in a high end atmosphere (Thumper) and even then there are superior builds. --Warior kronos 22:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

A-Nerf = A-Net
the case is simple... this is not the great and fun game i bought...it is become unrecognizable...it is become boring and repetitive...10,000 hrs to get a title...10,000 hrs to get Armor... and each time i come up with something that works, something that is fun.. it is nerfed... This is like being in a race where the finish line keeps moving just out of reach... this is not fun... this is the same thing over and over and over...the plausible thread of continuity throughout the game has been removed... When i finally come up with a build that works it is nerfed so badly that it is unusable... moreover, I am no longer able to create useful builds due to ineffectual skills that have themselves been nerfed... this may be a case of the carrot and the stick but i am not a donkey! I do not wish to clear a map 100 times in order to get the requisite "whatever" that is needed for a title or for a set of armor... It seems that as soon as a-net realizes that it "only" takes 100 times clearing the map they nerf it so it takes 500 times to get the leather squares or lightbringer points etc...and it seems that as soon as a-net realizes that a player can clear a map in an hour they nerf the skills so it takes two hours to clear the same map...i would like to be able to finish this game at some point... I want to be able to get the greens (weapons etc) that i wish to have without having to go down into "sorrows" or "uw" 1000 times or paying 100k + XX ectos for what i need...the same for armor and titles...I have learned that my relationship with a-net is not one that can be trusted... their constant "tweaking" of the game has removed the fun element and turn it into a grind...if the idea is to chase me from the game, i assure you it is working... However, as stated in an earlier post, "a-net may have my money" (>$300) but please READ THIS A-NET... I will not be buying GW 2 nor any other product you produce hence forth specifically because i can't trust you...I bet A-net would like to call all of this a "grand experiment" but that term is nothing more than a euphemism for not knowing what you are doing...and in the case of constant nerfing... it shows.24.20.97.188 12:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)Zendharma
 * Stuff is the cheapest it'd ever been, if you want only functional perfect stuff, then you need spend very little. Stop whining about gold sinks being expensive, especially as the price of those is defined by the players (supply/demand) and not the company. --Ckal Ktak 13:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How can you ever expect to be taken seriously, if you exaggerate like that? I mean, if it took you 'til yesterday to come up with the Shadow Prison build, then you deserve no better. Same for Barrage/pet builds in UW2, for example They stick around for ages now. - TeleTeddy 14:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I got 7 maxed titles and I haven't played for over 3000 hours. Your 10,000 remarks is way off.  Lightblade 01:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have like 12 sets of "prestige" armor, 2 of which are Vabbian, and i've only got like, 700 hours. I'd say he's quite far off =P--Darksyde Never Again 19:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

ok
ok i understand imo spirits shudnt have counted in the first place but spirit were the original reason for the soul reaping Nerf it shud b changed back but still not count spirits what do you think? please? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seth warmonger (talk &bull; contribs) 03:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * /agree &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.168.232.32 (talk &bull; contribs) 03:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * No. Spirits we're the problem behind the imba-ness of Sway. No change back is needed. The original intent of Soul Reaping, is to gain energy when something with a soul dies. Spirits in this case, I don't think, have souls. So change is justified. At least from a literal lore perspective. [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  01:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the suggestion is that spirits still not trigger SR, but that the time-related limits on SR triggering be removed.--Fourth Horseman 02:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if it was still in the game before this update but spirits used to give half energy. Because the limited number of souls you can reap in a certain period of time, in PvE I think spirits ended up making you reap less energy... which sucked. 58.110.139.185 06:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been that way for a while, up until just now, necros could only use soul reaping on spirits they themselves had cast. --Ckal Ktak 08:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have no problem with spirits giving no energy, this is how it should have been right from the beginning. The request to remove the "3x in 15 seconds" stuff seems fair. It is very artificial and counter-intuitive. But actually it does not matter, I get still tons of energy in PvE. I just think Izzy balances so much PvP that his PvE balancing always suffers because it is not his primary concern and that he is not really a PvE player by heart. --Longasc 12:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ..the spirits giving half energy was just g*y and reduced ur energy gain if u got into a team with a spirit spammer. --Cursed Angel 17:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the whole "3 times every 15 seconds" makes sense. Let's say when you "soul reap" you take in a soul, you're filling with its energy, but it's such a rush that you can only do it 3 times every 15 seconds, otherwise you overstrain your brain and body and exploderate!--Darksyde Never Again 19:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Hats off to Anet!
Huge hit to the ever so irritating SP sin. Hopefully RA won't be so repetitive anymore and people will realise that making your own build is, usually, better than tossing on a PvX build. Sp was getting old, and it wasn't all that good unless the victims had no self defense.--Darksyde Never Again 01:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the SP sin only came from PvX? Armond 07:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

But SP Sin's own =[ Duet 01:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It was irritating, didn't need a 3rd nerf. &mdash; Skakid9090 01:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yay they learned how to nerf a build even more... Now assasins have.... wel they have.... oh i know... more useless skills... Cmon man, how about buffing some other skills to make up for all the nerfs recently, i can deal with the nerfs if were given more to work with...--Midnight08 02:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Foresee AoD sins coming back. -- Luigi [[Image:User Luigi Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't. Horns of the ox was part of the AoD combo and it is one of the games most useless skills now. Kraken 04:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Steps in the right direction I say, Izzy is clearly doing this update thing piecemeal at the moment, hose assassacasters may well be next. --Ckal Ktak 08:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I still fail to see what was so dangerous about the SP Sin. They nerfed key kd-skills of many assassin builds relying on daggers. It just requires one skill to fail in most Assassin attack chains and the guy is neutralised. And even if it works, the target is still by far not dead if the assassin is unsupported. Then you have to wait for recharge. What is the point of assassination if it does not work? I do not see more AoD sins or any Sins at all if they cannot assassinate their targets, people will just play another class. Just to get rid of "annoying" SP Sins? Who said they are imba? I do not get it... --Longasc 12:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not that it was a threat, it's that it would always catch the not-so-great players in RA by surprise. I'm not against newbies being in RA, in fact i support people learning, but seeing an A/W and being able to guess its build correctly 9 times out of 10 was just stupid. SP needed to go away, it was easy to counter for the experienced players, but you'd still find the newbies who didn't feel like making the game interesting picking on the other newbies who were trying. Essentially, you had the lazy people making the people who (eventually) discover great builds want to leave. Anet needs to play around with the overused skills every once in awhile, get some diversity in the PVP area of the game.--Darksyde Never Again 20:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Rangers QQ
K i quit GW since I can't B/P tombs anymore. 76.90.54.231 01:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Toodles [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  01:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Anet doesn't care, they already have your money. --71.205.20.231 01:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * QQ moar - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 01:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can I have your gold? --Deathwing 01:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL im ticked about it as well, but quit cause you cant farm one area that gives junk drops with a .00001% chance of ecto, and greens noone wants to pay more than 20k for anymore? SEE YAH. were better off without negitive ppl like you. -TehBuG 01:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)-
 * He's being sarcastic, hence the, predicting the large influx of "omg B/P is ded" threads. --97.100.141.74 02:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think someone else added those. [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  02:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is funny though. --Deathwing 02:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * B/P was one of the most enjoyable builds to run and farm with. I don't understand the nerf, I really hope it gets reverted. It's also one of the friendliest builds to run for new players. 58.110.139.185 06:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * LUK THUMPERS WITH PETS LET'S MAKE LEVEL 0 BONE MINIONS. OLAWL THEY DIE FAST! OWEL I HAS NARGAY! Armond 07:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Assassin? What's an Assassin?
This update nerfs daggers skills, but leave the SoJ build unchanged... Is it the way the profession is meant to play? With a staff instead of daggers? Please, I was not a fan of sp, but give us something else...Ysalis 03:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess the goal was to make it so that the annoying knockdown deadly arts assassin is the only viable build. --Deathwing 03:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never even tried daggers with my assassin, even if it were good i would go deadly arts. --Cursed Angel 17:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * OMFG...How blind could I have been! I always thought that daggers were to sins as staffs were to casters. Now I see the errors in my beliefs! Staffs are for sins! Thank you Anet for teaching me the error in my beliefs!

Soul Reaping
O common... you kill my assasin fine.. I give him a staff(wtf?!) but now u kill my necro healer??? And plz give smiting prayers a buff. O and Thx for killing Sp sins. Im glad.. but im sad(wtf!?x2) - But honestly there was no need to kill the soul reaping bonus from spirits thats just stupid. That renders lots of necro hybrids (which is all they are useful for) useless. /sigh 24.141.45.72 03:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Read up. Armond 07:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If you can't properly use a N/nothing then you need to explore the skills a little more.--Darksyde Never Again 20:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Horns of the ox
First off, i understand most of todays updates. except the horrible nerf to horns of the ox. it now deals 20 dmg and give a very conditional KD. revert it back. the other nerfs are annoying but nessesary. however to compensate try this. give Horns and trampling ox back some damage. reduce the recharge of mark of instability to 10, and reduce it's cost to 5. add a clause to the critical strikes attribute that says "for each point in critical strikes assassin criticals deal 1 more damage." this would help deal with the low damage of daggers and also make the critical, around which the entire assasin profession revolves, a little more noticeable. (when my assassin criticals he often deals only 20 damage.) Kraken 04:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Horns combo was simply too easy to pull off and gave people no chance to get away if they were caught alone. The build was way imba... it's still powerful just not as disgustingly powerful as it was before. I like the attempt at forcing sins to play more variety, hpefully not those annoying as hell caster sins. People will hate it (SA Horns of the Ox)now simply because they remember how it used to be, not how it should have been. 58.110.139.185 06:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats what assasins are for tho! Picking off the stagglers.... Now with HoTo gone, an orison monk could out heal -_-24.141.45.72 22:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Horns was the keystone of Assassin diversity. Use it + Falling plus any other dual, lead, and offhand, and you've got a chain.  Every other viable assassin chain requires very, very rigid combinations, just because the absolute best one for each chain has already been picked out and standardized, and anything else is worse.  Why the hell are you expecting people to use assacasters less when every other 'sin build that doesn't suck is so effing boring?  How are you expecting people to innovate when there isn't a real way to do it without degrading performance? --71.229.204.25 03:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Horns was not imbalanced. Sins are suppose to be able to take out someone thats by themselves. To balance that, sins don't fair to well in groups. Also there are many ways to counter Horns of the Ox. I used this skill all the time. This was basically the corner stone to nearly all the builds that I just come up with at random. Now I got to find out what to use now.

Good Job on Mhenlo
I knew this was going to be needed, I just didn't think it would happen. Nice work on quickly changing this. 58.110.139.185 06:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a joke, right?
I haven't been playing GW for a while, but BLS a lead attack? With a requirement? Uhh, yeah... --128.195.93.145 07:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It deserved it for so long, heck, they may even make black spider strike 5 energy again if this carries. --Ckal Ktak 08:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Where's a requirement for the lead attack? You only need a hex if you want energy from this skill --Maku Dugon 09:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because it fails if the target isn't hexed. Nbajammer [[Image:User Nbajammer sig.jpg]] 16:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * you really dont need the energy if its the first attack you use, none of the assassin hexes costs that much anyway. Also, a lead attack shouldn't require a hex, but offhand attacks can require a hex instead of a lead attack. --Cursed Angel 20:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

WOOO
About fucking time, nice one :) &mdash; Skuld 08:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What?....Mirrored Stance.... --Cursed Angel 17:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * stfu about mirrored stance already :P &mdash; Skuld 17:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ban Korean patch!
I did it on the other wiki, but I will say it here again since this site is "official" and are monitored pretty nicely. If you are korean, you probably know this already. Many of koreans were permanently banned from the server(including mine). This might not be something to do with the recent patch, but I think it is important to know what is going on after the patch or any kind of updates. Koreans who got banned contacted the local NCsoft office, but they only get the reply, "We do not have privilege to solve the account-related problems, Only ArenaNet can do such things" What a way to excuse themselves! --Cider 10:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * NCSoft=/=Anet. NCSoft has got nothing to do with bans that happen in GW. Good luck though. Also, your note needs to be under "Guild Wars Wiki notes". The "Miscellaneous" section is a direct quote from guildwars.com. BlazeRick 11:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * oops. Thanks for the correction. I know the difference between NCsoft and Anet, but I must tell you something in Korean version of EULA: "회사는 이용자로부터 제기되는 의견이나 불만이 정당하다고 인정할 경우에는 즉시 처리하여야 합니다. 다만, 즉시 처리가 곤란한 경우에는 이용자에게 그 사유와 처리 일정을 E-mail, 전화 또는 서면으로 통보하여야 합니다." in English, "The company has to resolve any problems immediatly if the case is founded to be unfair and false.  If it can not be solved immediatly, the company must notify the user the reason and the schedule of resolution to his E-mail, phone or mail." Now, that it has been half a day, and no respond at all.  That is what makes korean users go nuts on the official site. This happened right after the current patch. --Cider 11:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of the recent patch that caused (nearly) everyone to disconnect due to lag when loading any area... including the one when they logged in... Armond 17:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ooh, must be nasty to get banned. Are you guys sure that all the bans are non-legit? Maby they just happened to do a mass banning for bot usage or something at the same time that the patch was released? -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 18:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Using a bot doesn't make sense in the korean server since there are so few koreans playing. During the halloween event, there were less than 10 ppl in the Lion Arch. Also, I did not use bots nor real cash to buy items. --Cider 20:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay. I guess they'll go about fixing it if enough people have reported the problem. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 22:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It still lives
This is what Shadow prison sins work with now:

Needs a big capacity on the energy to run, but still works. When I say "works" I mean, it's slower, it won't kill everything from full health and it is poor against enemies standing adjacent to their allies. --Ckal Ktak 18:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So it's fairly effective but not intsawin? Sounds about like that what ANet's been going for. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 18:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I think that Shadow Prison sins should still work, to a degree though. I mean it is their JOB to assassinate, but they were pretty overpowered and annoying. I like to see variety in sins and All saw was SP sins and caster sins. All Anet has to do now is nerf caster sins because they are ruthless lol. ~ajc2123 &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.183.125.212 (talk &bull; contribs) 20:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * So, they just nerfed it. Dont bother them with more whining cuz u just got killed by someone using it in team arena or whatever. --Cursed Angel 19:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not whining, I just came up with this myself and tried it in AB (for maximum abuse of the method of picking off the lone ones). Was kinda poor in any close quarters ruck. --Ckal Ktak 20:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Theres no point to using an assassin besides SA, get our your warrior or AoM instead &mdash; Skakid9090 20:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What the hell's SA? --Ckal Ktak 23:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * its not Mirrored Stance . --Cursed Angel 23:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Mhenlo's elite
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10217989 <-- inspiration for a change mirite? - Auron 01:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Talk:Game_updates#RIP_LoD <--GuildWiki too.[[Image:User Ereanor sig.jpg]]reanor 02:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Talk:Game_updates [[Image:User-brains12-sigicon5.png|Talk|14px]] br12  • 15:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

/fail
--Deathwing 01:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather good change IMO. I think Izzy's recent talks with Ensign have helped :p - Auron 01:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Some of them were called for, I agree. But this still just removes builds from the game, it adds nothing back into it. -_Deathwing 01:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I honestly hope that Ensign did not tell him to buff Barrage because they removed pet corpses or something like that... sorry, I would like to hear if that is the "positive" outcome of talks between Ensign and Izzy, brrrr! *shivers* --Longasc 11:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably a result of Volley filling the same roll as Barrage almost as well an elite Buddah668 16:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol? if stuff that gets removed is overpowered shit, i'm all fine with it. and every pvper should be. now the game just need to have every single sin skill brought up to 25 energy and this game is SO fine. and shadowsteps cause quadruple exhaustion. --82.59.132.17 01:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, along with making all monk skills deal 200 damage to the target. Now that would be fun. --Deathwing 01:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Sway just got owned, about time, 6 months too late IMO.

but i think the decrease in WoH is bad. We need to be able to run 2 monk backlines in tombs. Or matches will be too long, and everything will be terribly defensive. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.10.145.41 (talk &bull; contribs) 03:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC).


 * They pretty much assassinated the assassin's ability to assassinate... Rename profession to condition tickler Imo --97.100.141.74 01:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If games take so long nowadays with 3monks it's b/c A.Net has nerfed all the damage - GG. I agree with the person above who said that ever though some of these changes were needed, they only REMOVE builds out of the game instead of promoting diversity. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.168.232.32 (talk &bull; contribs) 03:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * mate, there's NO diversity in this game. go in random arena: woh monk, soj sin, soj sin, bha ranger, woh monk, shockaxe warrior, bha ranger, sp sin, antimelee necro, spirit spammer, sp sin, soj sin, soj sin. go in gvg: sp split sin, antimelee necro, dom mesmer, shockaxe, shockaxe ecc.ecc.ecc. But a char like a shockaxe war it's NOT imbalanced. to spike he must first charge adren and then expose to frenzy. overpowered shit like hex sins, soj sins, have no real downsides if you can actually be a human and not a monkey and kite-flee battles. --82.59.132.17 01:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly, so they nerf 3 of them builds. How does that add diversity? Now instead of seeing 7-8 different builds, you see 4-5. --Deathwing 01:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, before adding your beloved "diversity", one must first kick out of the game stuff that's clearly better than the rest. AFTER this process, then you add "diversity". Still this game offers great possibilities that people never uses, e.g. smiters, mass aoe builds, strange combos like equinox+arcane languor, nr-tr builds and so on. why use other possibilities if you have imba shit you can pwn people with? Sorry if you dont understand my point, and i'm sorry but i dont understand yours. overall balance > diversity. --82.59.132.17 01:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop running your "builds" and create fun random skill sets, make every match like a sealed tourney, trust me, its really fun Melandrus judge 02:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Except you play against people who are not running the sealed tourny, and just get your ass handed to you. Thats fun too. --Deathwing 02:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

......... i was comparing the matchs to sealed tourneys, obviously putting 8 random skills on your bar wont work, just doint get so set in on 1-2 builds, and never use anything else, i mean i never see rangers who run sweet skills like Melandrus arrows...Melandrus judge 21:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Cos it's a bad skill? His point wasn't to use random shit, it was just that when you're using your "sealed deck" skills and you come across someone using all the skills, you're going to lose. - Auron 22:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Do assassins official fail now? or are there still some builds that can kill somebody in a go? (i.e. not 2 or 5 or 28 attack runs.) Warning: the previous sentence contains sarcasm and may not be appropriate for all viewers, viewer discretion is advised. --Lou-Saydus 06:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ranger changes
Okaaay. Why don't you just tell all us PvE rangers to just delete our characters instead of this death by a thousand nerfs crud. Trappers, RIP. Barrage/Pet groups, RIP. --Valshia 01:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you see barrage? Great job on that. The pet thing makes no sense lore-wise and frankly I don't see how it was needed. (spirits are already dead or whatnot, so they have no soul. Mango 01:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, how is this a nerf for PVE rangers? If anything it's a nerf for maybe Zaishen farming trappers, but energizing wind isn't used by most proper rangers who use a bow and such.--Darksyde Never Again 01:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Barrage/Pet tombs is what I think Val's talking about. --97.100.141.74 01:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep. Also, and team trapping use EW.  Trapping encompasses a lot more than just Zaishen Challenge.  And seriously, +4 damage on barrage isn't much compensation.  --Valshia 01:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * WTF is the little buff on Barrage for? Countering the B/P screw up :S?[[Image:User Ereanor sig.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 02:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * B/P was aimed at providing corpses for the MM. The nerf isn't barrage, barrage was buffed. Without the corpses from the pets B/P is an almost pointless build. One of the most useful aspects of a pet was removed from the game in this build. I don't understand it, how were pets being exploited? 58.110.139.185 06:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol? Any half-decent MM can make corpses out of enemies instead of allies. Armond 06:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe they really hated the idea of a pet being better off dead than alive. It is a really cheap minion factory, and this is coming from a MM himself. Just take a Proper warrior tank into tombs and make all of the rangers spliter barragers with no pet. works just fine. --Ckal Ktak 08:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe the nerf won't kill PvE Rangers and the usual teams, but it's certainly killed PvE pets: with the minion factory thing gone there's just no point in bringing pets to a PvE party now. They're too weak and uncontrollable to accomplish anything else, except with weird "beastmaster" style builds that usually suck. --130.234.176.241 15:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Barrage is already so dominant in PvE, why buff it even more. It is hard enough to justify another elite to use for a Ranger, and I bet it is BHA. Why buff something that already sees widespread use and acceptance??? I also wonder which builds relied on pets providing corpses from pets, it was for sure not PvE. There are already many areas in EOTN and other chapters where MM's are a total waste, while the pet-corpse-nerf does nothing to stop the power of MMs in missions like Vizunah. I totally do not get it, it is so artificial that it hurts. But pets still give soul reaping energy, so... and speaking about soul reaping: This is what should have been done before they came up with "3x in 15 seconds" crap, just no energy from spirits. But ways to bring the Necro class into pvp play besides for abusing SR in game modes where it is possible, no, nothing at all. Sorry to talk about this in the ranger section, but pets, corpses and MM's are connected. --Longasc 12:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing is ever balanced for PvE, that's just how it is, the repucussions of how this changes rangers for PvE are nothing compared to the fact it allows more archers and fewer thumpers in PvP. --Ckal Ktak 12:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Lucky for me, my pet is nothing more than a free IAS (See: Never Rampage Alone)  Vanguard  15:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

All you little Ranger whiners have to quit, well, WHINING! What about us Necros, with that STUPID Soul Reaping Nerf?!? I mean, come on! I wish they would change things in PVP ONLY and leave PVE untouched. I never play PVP specifically because there's so many exploits. Anything that makes the game more fun, or adds more possibilities to the game are welcomed by me, but things like the Soul Reaping nerf are a BIG No-no. I have not played on my Necromancer, rank 2 Survivor, Protector of all 3 Continents, since that silly SR nerf. How's that for "BOO HOO my pet doesn't leave a corpse anymore!"?? --ChristopherRodrigues 18:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Too bad for you? For like the gazillionth time, they can't only change PvP and not PvE without massively recoding the game. I've been playing my necro just fine throughout all the SR nerfs. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 19:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Talking about Whining... They compensated for that patch with a reduction of energy costs of many spells. And even in its current "nerfed" form soulreaping is the most powerful primary attribute for casters. Why do you think are there so many n/any around, because most of the time a n/any is better than the any/x. 134.130.183.235 00:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I still havn't seen a reason for the change to nerf pet corpses... it doesn't make sense and seems to have come out of no-where. It would be nice if someone could identify some logic behind it. 58.110.139.185 03:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

A-Nerf = A-Net
the case is simple... this is not the great and fun game i bought...it is become unrecognizable...it is become boring and repetitive...10,000 hrs to get a title...10,000 hrs to get Armor... and each time i come up with something that works, something that is fun.. it is nerfed... This is like being in a race where the finish line keeps moving just out of reach... this is not fun... this is the same thing over and over and over...the plausible thread of continuity throughout the game has been removed... When i finally come up with a build that works it is nerfed so badly that it is unusable... moreover, I am no longer able to create useful builds due to ineffectual skills that have themselves been nerfed... this may be a case of the carrot and the stick but i am not a donkey! I do not wish to clear a map 100 times in order to get the requisite "whatever" that is needed for a title or for a set of armor... It seems that as soon as a-net realizes that it "only" takes 100 times clearing the map they nerf it so it takes 500 times to get the leather squares or lightbringer points etc...and it seems that as soon as a-net realizes that a player can clear a map in an hour they nerf the skills so it takes two hours to clear the same map...i would like to be able to finish this game at some point... I want to be able to get the greens (weapons etc) that i wish to have without having to go down into "sorrows" or "uw" 1000 times or paying 100k + XX ectos for what i need...the same for armor and titles...I have learned that my relationship with a-net is not one that can be trusted... their constant "tweaking" of the game has removed the fun element and turn it into a grind...if the idea is to chase me from the game, i assure you it is working... However, as stated in an earlier post, "a-net may have my money" (>$300) but please READ THIS A-NET... I will not be buying GW 2 nor any other product you produce hence forth specifically because i can't trust you...I bet A-net would like to call all of this a "grand experiment" but that term is nothing more than a euphemism for not knowing what you are doing...and in the case of constant nerfing... it shows.24.20.97.188 12:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)Zendharma
 * Stuff is the cheapest it'd ever been, if you want only functional perfect stuff, then you need spend very little. Stop whining about gold sinks being expensive, especially as the price of those is defined by the players (supply/demand) and not the company. --Ckal Ktak 13:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How can you ever expect to be taken seriously, if you exaggerate like that? I mean, if it took you 'til yesterday to come up with the Shadow Prison build, then you deserve no better. Same for Barrage/pet builds in UW2, for example They stick around for ages now. - TeleTeddy 14:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I got 7 maxed titles and I haven't played for over 3000 hours. Your 10,000 remarks is way off.  Lightblade 01:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * A single character can get like 15 maxed titles in maybe 600-750 hours of gameplay, if you know what you're doing and stay focused. And i mean 15 interesting maxed titles, like guardian/skillhunter/vanquisher and such...none of that drunk or sweet crap. And you said you have to spend hours upon hours for armor...so just cuz a noob like you can't buy FoW armor, the game sucks? any other armor costs very little. a full set of 15k armor costs about 5-10 hours worth of just playing in HM. You also talk about greens. A perfect stat green can cost as little as 10k. i don't find any grind either...i have fun getting titles, if you don't then simply don't go for them, since you obviously don't care anyway. oh, how'd u manage to spend over $300 on gw? did u buy like 12 extra character slots? just to have 12 more characters to bitch about? Only part about your speech i liked was the very end...cuz you provide a perfect euphemism for...YOURSELF! you have no idea what you are doing, just go play fucking WoW and pay them 15 bucks a month to blow their massive cock.24.186.207.198 03:24, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

ok
ok i understand imo spirits shudnt have counted in the first place but spirit were the original reason for the soul reaping Nerf it shud b changed back but still not count spirits what do you think? please? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seth warmonger (talk &bull; contribs) 03:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * /agree &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.168.232.32 (talk &bull; contribs) 03:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * No. Spirits we're the problem behind the imba-ness of Sway. No change back is needed. The original intent of Soul Reaping, is to gain energy when something with a soul dies. Spirits in this case, I don't think, have souls. So change is justified. At least from a literal lore perspective. [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  01:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the suggestion is that spirits still not trigger SR, but that the time-related limits on SR triggering be removed.--Fourth Horseman 02:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if it was still in the game before this update but spirits used to give half energy. Because the limited number of souls you can reap in a certain period of time, in PvE I think spirits ended up making you reap less energy... which sucked. 58.110.139.185 06:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been that way for a while, up until just now, necros could only use soul reaping on spirits they themselves had cast. --Ckal Ktak 08:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have no problem with spirits giving no energy, this is how it should have been right from the beginning. The request to remove the "3x in 15 seconds" stuff seems fair. It is very artificial and counter-intuitive. But actually it does not matter, I get still tons of energy in PvE. I just think Izzy balances so much PvP that his PvE balancing always suffers because it is not his primary concern and that he is not really a PvE player by heart. --Longasc 12:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ..the spirits giving half energy was just g*y and reduced ur energy gain if u got into a team with a spirit spammer. --Cursed Angel 17:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hats off to Anet!
Huge hit to the ever so irritating SP sin. Hopefully RA won't be so repetitive anymore and people will realise that making your own build is, usually, better than tossing on a PvX build. Sp was getting old, and it wasn't all that good unless the victims had no self defense.--Darksyde Never Again 01:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the SP sin only came from PvX? Armond 07:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

But SP Sin's own =[ Duet 01:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It was irritating, didn't need a 3rd nerf. &mdash; Skakid9090 01:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yay they learned how to nerf a build even more... Now assasins have.... wel they have.... oh i know... more useless skills... Cmon man, how about buffing some other skills to make up for all the nerfs recently, i can deal with the nerfs if were given more to work with...--Midnight08 02:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Foresee AoD sins coming back. -- Luigi [[Image:User Luigi Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't. Horns of the ox was part of the AoD combo and it is one of the games most useless skills now. Kraken 04:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Steps in the right direction I say, Izzy is clearly doing this update thing piecemeal at the moment, hose assassacasters may well be next. --Ckal Ktak 08:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I still fail to see what was so dangerous about the SP Sin. They nerfed key kd-skills of many assassin builds relying on daggers. It just requires one skill to fail in most Assassin attack chains and the guy is neutralised. And even if it works, the target is still by far not dead if the assassin is unsupported. Then you have to wait for recharge. What is the point of assassination if it does not work? I do not see more AoD sins or any Sins at all if they cannot assassinate their targets, people will just play another class. Just to get rid of "annoying" SP Sins? Who said they are imba? I do not get it... --Longasc 12:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Rangers QQ
K i quit GW since I can't B/P tombs anymore. 76.90.54.231 01:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Toodles [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  01:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Anet doesn't care, they already have your money. --71.205.20.231 01:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * QQ moar - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 01:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can I have your gold? --<font face="times new roman" color="#990000">Deathwing 01:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL im ticked about it as well, but quit cause you cant farm one area that gives junk drops with a .00001% chance of ecto, and greens noone wants to pay more than 20k for anymore? SEE YAH. were better off without negitive ppl like you. -TehBuG 01:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)-
 * He's being sarcastic, hence the, predicting the large influx of "omg B/P is ded" threads. --97.100.141.74 02:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think someone else added those. [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  02:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is funny though. --<font face="times new roman" color="#990000">Deathwing 02:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * B/P was one of the most enjoyable builds to run and farm with. I don't understand the nerf, I really hope it gets reverted. It's also one of the friendliest builds to run for new players. 58.110.139.185 06:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * LUK THUMPERS WITH PETS LET'S MAKE LEVEL 0 BONE MINIONS. OLAWL THEY DIE FAST! OWEL I HAS NARGAY! Armond 07:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Assassin? What's an Assassin?
This update nerfs daggers skills, but leave the SoJ build unchanged... Is it the way the profession is meant to play? With a staff instead of daggers? Please, I was not a fan of sp, but give us something else...Ysalis 03:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess the goal was to make it so that the annoying knockdown deadly arts assassin is the only viable build. --<font face="times new roman" color="#990000">Deathwing 03:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never even tried daggers with my assassin, even if it were good i would go deadly arts. --Cursed Angel 17:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not just delete assassin from game? this nerf takes away the only thing the other nerfs left assassins with.... spikeing, now all they do is pressure and conditions, which other classes do better, gg anet, why do you hate your creations so?
 * OMFG I can't believe I've been so blind! To think I always thought that daggers were to assassins. Now I know that staffs are meant for assassins! It makes perfect since to me now! Thank you anet for correcting my misguided beliefs!
 * Delayed response anyone? --<font face="times new roman" color="#990000">Deathwing 21:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Soul Reaping
O common... you kill my assasin fine.. I give him a staff(wtf?!) but now u kill my necro healer??? And plz give smiting prayers a buff. O and Thx for killing Sp sins. Im glad.. but im sad(wtf!?x2) - But honestly there was no need to kill the soul reaping bonus from spirits thats just stupid. That renders lots of necro hybrids (which is all they are useful for) useless. /sigh 24.141.45.72 03:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Read up. Armond 07:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Horns of the ox
First off, i understand most of todays updates. except the horrible nerf to horns of the ox. it now deals 20 dmg and give a very conditional KD. revert it back. the other nerfs are annoying but nessesary. however to compensate try this. give Horns and trampling ox back some damage. reduce the recharge of mark of instability to 10, and reduce it's cost to 5. add a clause to the critical strikes attribute that says "for each point in critical strikes assassin criticals deal 1 more damage." this would help deal with the low damage of daggers and also make the critical, around which the entire assasin profession revolves, a little more noticeable. (when my assassin criticals he often deals only 20 damage.) Kraken 04:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Horns combo was simply too easy to pull off and gave people no chance to get away if they were caught alone. The build was way imba... it's still powerful just not as disgustingly powerful as it was before. I like the attempt at forcing sins to play more variety, hpefully not those annoying as hell caster sins. People will hate it (SA Horns of the Ox)now simply because they remember how it used to be, not how it should have been. 58.110.139.185 06:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats what assasins are for tho! Picking off the stagglers.... Now with HoTo gone, an orison monk could out heal -_-24.141.45.72 22:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Good Job on Mhenlo
I knew this was going to be needed, I just didn't think it would happen. Nice work on quickly changing this. 58.110.139.185 06:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a joke, right?
I haven't been playing GW for a while, but BLS a lead attack? With a requirement? Uhh, yeah... --128.195.93.145 07:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It deserved it for so long, heck, they may even make black spider strike 5 energy again if this carries. --Ckal Ktak 08:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Where's a requirement for the lead attack? You only need a hex if you want energy from this skill --Maku Dugon 09:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because it fails if the target isn't hexed. Nbajammer [[Image:User Nbajammer sig.jpg]] 16:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * you really dont need the energy if its the first attack you use, none of the assassin hexes costs that much anyway. Also, a lead attack shouldn't require a hex, but offhand attacks can require a hex instead of a lead attack. --Cursed Angel 20:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

WOOO
About fucking time, nice one :) &mdash; Skuld 08:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What?....Mirrored Stance.... --Cursed Angel 17:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * stfu about mirrored stance already :P &mdash; Skuld 17:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ban Korean patch!
I did it on the other wiki, but I will say it here again since this site is "official" and are monitored pretty nicely. If you are korean, you probably know this already. Many of koreans were permanently banned from the server(including mine). This might not be something to do with the recent patch, but I think it is important to know what is going on after the patch or any kind of updates. Koreans who got banned contacted the local NCsoft office, but they only get the reply, "We do not have privilege to solve the account-related problems, Only ArenaNet can do such things" What a way to excuse themselves! --Cider 10:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * NCSoft=/=Anet. NCSoft has got nothing to do with bans that happen in GW. Good luck though. Also, your note needs to be under "Guild Wars Wiki notes". The "Miscellaneous" section is a direct quote from guildwars.com. BlazeRick 11:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * oops. Thanks for the correction. I know the difference between NCsoft and Anet, but I must tell you something in Korean version of EULA: "회사는 이용자로부터 제기되는 의견이나 불만이 정당하다고 인정할 경우에는 즉시 처리하여야 합니다. 다만, 즉시 처리가 곤란한 경우에는 이용자에게 그 사유와 처리 일정을 E-mail, 전화 또는 서면으로 통보하여야 합니다." in English, "The company has to resolve any problems immediatly if the case is founded to be unfair and false.  If it can not be solved immediatly, the company must notify the user the reason and the schedule of resolution to his E-mail, phone or mail." Now, that it has been half a day, and no respond at all.  That is what makes korean users go nuts on the official site. This happened right after the current patch. --Cider 11:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of the recent patch that caused (nearly) everyone to disconnect due to lag when loading any area... including the one when they logged in... Armond 17:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ooh, must be nasty to get banned. Are you guys sure that all the bans are non-legit? Maby they just happened to do a mass banning for bot usage or something at the same time that the patch was released? -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 18:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Using a bot doesn't make sense in the korean server since there are so few koreans playing. During the halloween event, there were less than 10 ppl in the Lion Arch. Also, I did not use bots nor real cash to buy items. --Cider 20:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay. I guess they'll go about fixing it if enough people have reported the problem. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 22:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

2G+2M+E+Me+R+X=FTL
Well I bet this is all we will see soon in GvG. Wait, there are still some Melandrus there, and a Rt or P from time to time? Don't worry they'll get them with the next nerf. And then we can all sit back and see 2 teams tease each other until VoD. How fun! No wonder most people not only don't play PvP anymore, they don't even bother to press the B button. Even Tetris is more fun. Dionyssios 15:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Even Tetris!? Tetris is the best game through all times. Nothing will ever come to close to being as fun as tetris. [[Image:Healing_Burst.jpg|19px]] <font color="Orange">†Godliest† -- <font color="Green">My Sandbox  20:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Pacman.81.68.90.181 14:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * pacman FTL! Tetris FTW!!! Where else do you get Russian music, plus entertainment all the way cross country?--68.102.128.17 15:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Tetris in the best game in the world! Nothing can beat tetris! Not even guild wars!

BP=nerfed?
my brother plays a bp in topk often and claims anet nerfed bps with no exploitable pet corpses. looks like no more mm bp combos in topk
 * This has been discussed multiple times on this same talk page. Read up, please. As I said before, any half decent mm won't care about the nerf. Armond 03:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)