Talk:Battle Isle Iced Tea

Battle Isle Iced Tea
This is an alcohol item that counts as 50 points toward the drunkard title. 98.198.141.167 07:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)Mythoryk.

I don't know how to extract the image from the .dat file, if someone would like to do so, feel free. 98.198.141.167 07:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)-Mythoryk

I want!! 205.250.66.236 08:48, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Trivia
Although this is probably obvious, should there be a trivia to this being named after the Long Island Ice Tea? 99.70.110.56 08:13, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe so. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 08:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This is obviously named after famous GW player Dev in DL who always needs to go get Sweet Tea during DOA runs.. 24.78.131.249 17:52, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Fame is relative... Can anyone link to as to who Dev is and/or why Dev is famous? What Guild/Alliance uses the initial DL? This is news to me. --Falconeye 03:07, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ignore him. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 03:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Dev is from Desolation Lords [DL] the old Holders of the Underworlds Fastest time. He was their Vor For their record runs in the Domain of Anguish.
 * Seeing as TEF removed it; if you believe a reference is intended or legit, then please provide links and evidence that proves it lends itself the facts. --Falconeye 03:57, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Who cares about PvE shitters? Oh right, no one? It's more than painfully obvious that this is a reference to Long Island Ice Tea not some dumbass who couldn't figure out that he's playing a game built for PvP--TahiriVeila 04:24, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL game build for pvp. Whoru? 79.116.221.7 08:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Intelligent conversation is very intelligent?-- Mark,  User Markisbeest sig.jpg]]   het Beest  23:03, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Yup sry but dev is actually a PvP player then went to PvE, doing Record in Dungeons,DoA and elite Areas, And his inteligent enought to be a PvE meta changer.

Lets set sail with General Morgahn and never leave Dry land! -- Briar    The Spider  06:17, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Revert Wars
I thought there was a rule against them? As for the trivia itself, the drink shares 2 words exactly, and 1 synonym with the Long Island. Do you really need a dev confirmation? Or is thinking now banned on the wiki as well? Use the tiniest, most insignificant insignificant peice of trivia knows where to ask. -- Briar    The Spider  01:41, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I think we can be consistent with how we treat Trivia. In general, the phrase is a reference to lacks substance; all we really need to say is that there's a corresponding thing in Real Life. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 01:49, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Since the Long Island Iced Tea has a much higher alcohol concentration than most other highballs, the trivia does not only share name. (50 Drunkard points are the indication.) - Infinite - talk 16:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, when I first read the name I made a mental connection. When I read the description (50 points and a knockdown) I knew it was a reference to the real life drink. It shares more than just two words in the name I vote for trivia. FleshAndFaith 23:24, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we should stick to the similarities and I'd reverted that Ip as well, had it not been for TEF doing that. I've had the drink and I don't see the reference in the description. Only reference that "might" be similar is the name of the drink, but that's only two words and not really enough to call it being a reference. I'd say it's enough to being similar. Only thing to clear this up, would be to talk to an Anet employee that'd know. Also looking at the article, I don't see a revert war as each reverted the other once and not more than once... Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 23:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Anyone know of any other alcoholic beverage that ends with "Iced Tea" and includes the name of a water locked body of land? FleshAndFaith 00:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There's Carolina Iced Tea and course Long Island Iced Tea, which is the most popular one. But you're being sarcastic and that's not nice to do Flesh. It's similar, until Anet confirms that it is indeed a reference. Also, found more like Jamaica Ice Tea and others on drinksmixer. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 00:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This reference is fairly obvious. - Auron 00:26, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * When you tell someone to name a drink with "iced Tea" in the name, they won't go on drinksmixer and look up some to tell you, they will tell you "Long Island Iced Tea". And I will be sarcastic if I feel so inclined. And I do. FleshAndFaith 00:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think at the very least we can agree it's named after the Iced Tea family of mixed drinks that contain no ice tea. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 00:53, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We need a GWW:Common Sense -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  01:03, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Common sense is often not very common nor is it always sensible. Many think the reference is obvious; I think there's a difference between we are extremely sure and we know for a fact. In particular, for Trivia, I don't think it's very interesting to say, it's a possible reference.

Epistemological hairsplitting isn't very useful here. I am reminded of the following.
 * If the consensus is that the page become an exception to the we wait for evidence approach to Trivia that we use almost everywhere else, then that's the consensus. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 01:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We should all have a few Long Island Iced Teas and see if we still care afterwards. FleshAndFaith 01:39, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Flesh, you are not being respectful to other users. Please chill and stop with whatever attempt at whatever you're trying to do. 72.148.31.114 06:16, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, So now Jokes are against the rules too. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  06:17, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Rude jokes are rude, they shouldn't be here. However, it's sad people can't see that we don't document speculation, no matter how close to the facts that it may be. It's still speculation, until Anet says yea we named this after that, etc. We may as well do "similar" or what we can to show that it's "possible", but not "fact". Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 06:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing they simply over-estimated the intelligence of their audience. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  06:33, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not overestimating, it's just how I've always seen things done here. There have been speculations on Mhenlo's page and other pages, but as you can see on them, the speculations got removed, no matter how close to the possibility that it may be or reworded to show the possibility, but not "fact". Only Trivia that stayed, were possibles, but worded as such as it is here. See, it all really depends on the "Wording" of some trivia as to the key of it being "confirmed" by anet or not. Some, like Nicholas the Traveler, have actual links with quotes, etc. that were "proven facts". I'd say we wait, until they (Anet) confirms or not and I'd hope that if those who want it to be facts, would go ask them - so it could be "confirmed" and settle this "debate" or "issue". Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 06:39, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * "I think there's a difference between we are extremely sure and we know for a fact."
 * A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer were traveling through Scotland when they saw a black sheep through the window of the train.
 * "Aha," says the engineer, "I see that Scottish sheep are black."
 * "Hmm," says the physicist, "You mean that some Scottish sheep are black."
 * "No," says the mathematician, "All we know is that there is at least one sheep in Scotland, and that at least one side of that one sheep is black!"
 * Hong 08:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Why is this discussion still going on? As soon as Auron told me this stuff existed I got the reference, and I don't even drink the stuff. Obvious reference is obvious. -- Armond Warblade 08:53, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * One would think. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  09:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My intention was never to be rude or disrespectful, but to bring a pinch of satire (purely for whimsy) to the discussion. I think most of us agree that the item is named after the most common form of alcoholic "iced teas". Yes, there are other "iced teas" which contain an assortment of alcohols, but most were created and/or named after or in reference to Long Island Iced Tea. It is a fairly widely and commonly known drink, which is notorious for being deceptively potent.
 * To put it in reference: If there was an item called "Lord Victo Martini" and the description said, "Enjoy shaken, not stirred." We would agree that it was a reference to James Bond's Vodka martini, despite the names not directly matching and there being literally hundreds of variations of a martini. This is the same situation. This is also a very famous, widely known drink. FleshAndFaith 20:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We have other obvious reverences... Those not noted by Anet are not shown as definite, but as possible. It's really sad how many of you want this as definite, even if it may be. It's still speculation and do you want to harbor that now? If we allow it here, more will try to push Trivia notes, etc. on other pages that may be definite, but not certain. Do we want this type of activity? Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 21:49, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ariyen, honey, this is why people have issues with you. "Definite but not certain"? I think that's impossible, actually. Yes, this is the kind of activity we want, as consensus on this page is showing. You, TEF, and a couple IPs (at best) are a vocal minority, but the fact of the matter is that you're going against consensus. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 17:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised nobody has suggested that it is a "likely reference": implying a great deal of certainty but leaving a little room for doubt. --JonTheMon 17:21, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Armond, don't start the drama with me. Claiming we and IPs are a minority is silly. Also, what is consensus here - just an even amount divided against each other on both pages and you want to claim more are towards speculation? I did the right thing and consulted a staff member, why didn't you? Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 18:56, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I think the consensus is clear: that the community believes this is an (obvious) reference to a particular drink and that the simplest sentence is appropriate for the article. I don't think anyone is arguing that we should generally use subjective criteria for Trivia; in this case, the feeling is that, hey, even if ANet didn't intend the reference, it would be foolish to ignore the similarities.

I am confident that if, somehow, the community decided that we should stand on principle (trivia sticks to facts, not opinions, no matter how strong)...then this article would be the constant target of future revert wars.

For now, how about if we leave the article with Armond's last edit ? If people still feel strongly in a fortnight, we can re-open the discussion. I doubt the wiki (or its readership) will come to any great harm in the meantime. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:13, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * While I may agree with you TEF, I still worry about Revert wars from others as more will either add in infamous or possible, etc. I do like Jon's suggestion of adding in "likely reference" and I would like him to add it in, because it clears up the speculation that the current seems to give and it doesn't give away that it was intentional by anet or not. As it stands, it to me gives away that Anet intended this and in that respect that's speculation. Even if it is no doubt a likely reference. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 19:23, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter if anet intended the reference or not (though they'd have to be collectively more culturally ignorant than I am, and that's seriously fucking saying something) - it's still a reference. An unintended reference is still a reference, and the devs have better things to do than be bugged about them (anyone remember the response to whether "Can't Touch This!" was a reference? Yeah, that was dumb). And, by the way, in an argument with two viewpoints, the supporters of the lesser-held viewpoint are the minority. Since you, TEF, and the IP fulfill that criteria, and are also vocal about your opinions, you are indeed the vocal minority, despite your protests. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 15:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Armond, Guild Wars 2 is different than here and that is useless to link to here or show as an example. Also, you keep saying minority, Are you not clear that any of us have the right to voice our opinions, be bold, etc? Seriously, you're going on acting like our actions mean nothing and your's do. Please stop, because we all have the right to say what we want. It doesn't matter if it's more "vocal" and still "minority", we are still part of the community and I think it'd be nicer if you could respect that. I'm sorry you don't. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 17:45, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It is essentially the same wiki with the same general guidelines and the same structure with the same stance on trivia. The trivia there showed that while the devs didn't come out and say, "Hey guys, Pistol Whipping is a reference to the action of beating someone with a sidearm" it was still pretty obvious once people came together and decided. This is the same thing. This is the same thing. This is the same thing. The thing that this is is the same as the thing that that is. And the trivia stands. As for your being a vocal minority (which you are). When a group of, lets say, 10 people vote on something, if 4 people vote A, and 6 people vote B, then the 4 are a minority. Their vote was counted, but they lost. It would be disrespectful of them to challenge the decision of the 6, such as you are doing now. There are more people in favor of keeping the trivia than there are of people wanting to wait for a very busy dev to humor you here. We do value you as a contributing member of this community, which is why we bothered listening and responding to your opinion at all. However, you do not extend the same courtesy when a larger group decided on the current action. Instead of accepting that you are not currently of the majority, you send nasty emails and get all worked up over trivia. Accept that in this case, the majority rules in favor of keeping a very obvious, yet ultimately trivial, reference on the trivia section of this page because we, the majority, take responsibility for it. If a Dev comes out and says, "Oh, by the way guys, that was a reference to a popular band/album/song that I like, not a drink," then we will gladly eat our humble pie and you can be right. But until then, we have made a majority vote decision and we are going to stick to it. Please respect the trivia until such a time that a Dev either confirms or denies its validity, should such a day ever come. Thank you, and please don't send me hatemail anymore.
 * Hugs and kisses, FleshAndFaith 18:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Kaisha, "being bold" does not really apply here - changes have already been made; the question now is *evaluating* those changes. If being bold meant repeatedly changing things when it's clear there's a controversy, we wouldn't have a revert wars policy. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 22:49, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So, being bold doesn't allow some users to voice their opinion (of which were ignored) and not get heard? I'm talking about trying to find a reasonable wording that all could agree with. The rest want to just basically say their word is it and the rest of us suck. That's not polite nor respectful. You agree with them? Is that it? Seriously, "This item's name is a likely reference to Long Island Iced Tea." this solves both sides. I agree that it is a reference, but the way it's worded would have many and obviously have many "assuming" (shouldn't we not assume, but document?) that Anet meant it. While, that might be fact or not. Is not something that should be "assumed" or "speculated" we don't know the true fact or not. I do know the actual drink has a bit of a variety in it's self, including TGIF's version - which isn't as stout as the recipe. The wording I've mentioned would solve the speculation and assumptions and the "facts" that is there. No doubt no one is saying that it isn't a reference as we all know it is. However, the wording if it is still the issue, even if people might not see that. I'm just hoping we can get this settled either this way (this discussion, without people trying to turn it into drama) or by John answering my question there and that being quoted and about to bring it on down to a definite fact and no assumption or speculation about it. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 00:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * For the sake of consensus, I also believe this is a (very obvious) reference to Long Island Iced Tea. Yes, there are some more dubious cases where the reference isn't as clear, but this, in my opinion, is glaringly obviously referencing Long Island Iced Tea. -- ★ KOKUOU ★ 23:56, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Is anyone still opposing this? Aha. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 23:57, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that it should be worded, "This item's name is a reference to Long Island Iced Tea." Clear and concise. -- R i ddle 00:09, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

This item may or may not be a reference to a drink with a similar name, also the only the name may be a reference, but we aren't sure so we are putting this placeholder until someone confirms or denies the item itself (or name) is in fact a reference. How wishy-washy. Also, just because we, the majority, didn't say "This item is a reference to Long Island Iced Tea (but Kaisha thinks maybe its not)" in the trivia, doesn't mean we didn't seriously consider your stance on the subject. We listened to your opinion, debated, and responded according to the majority. This is how EVERYTHING on the wiki goes without direct input from the devs. *Puts on asura sunglasses* Deal with it. FleshAndFaith 00:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC) . In so many words, it's the wording, not the trivia it's self. Please, stop assuming Flesh - you're only making this worse. Kaisha  02:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC) , which we don't. "This item's name is a likely reference to Long Island Iced Tea." is though a better wording - there's no infamous, there's no possible. It is likely, but not a definite, cause of the "contents". Kaisha  03:03, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hold it, I didn't say I think it's not. That's putting words in my mouth. I said "However, the wording if it is still the issue"
 * No, actually, you're the one making this worse. I really don't get you - you agree this is a reference, but you debate that it's a reference? The fuck, man.
 * I also like how everyone says "why don't we change it to 'this item's name is a reference to Long Island Iced Tea' and drop it" when I did that already. Arrr. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 02:18, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm just trying to pick a fight for the sake of being mean. :) Bac o ntopic, however: Have we ultimately reached a resolution which is satisfying for all parties? The item's name is a reference to the drink with a similar name (since we don't know for certain if there is vodka, gin, rum and tequila in Battle Isle Iced Tea). The wording, as is, is agreeable? "This item's name is a reference to Long Island Iced Tea". We do not need any filler words or appendixes/footnotes about infamy or renown. Can we safely say that we respected all input and the majority didn't get cheated out of their vote, and the minority didn't get overrun entirely? FleshAndFaith 02:56, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There we go "we don't know for certain if there is vodka, gin, rum and tequila in Battle Isle Iced Tea"
 * All I have to say is, the item was aptly named after all: this turned out to be a Big Battle. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 05:27, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Weirdly enough i was just about to go there, just thought itd be a little too on the nose. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  05:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am simply amazed how mere Iced Tea can create such a bit discussion. Here is my suggestion for the trivia: just add that it's based after Iced Tea coctails wich all share names of different locations and in this case Battle Isle. That should be enough for the trivia. Damysticreaper 17:14, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

This is a bit... strange... You must understand that we can't bother developers for every single piece of trivia, or start revert wars when the majority clearly agrees with something. Of course everyone has the right to voice their opinions, but that's done in talk pages, and if no one agrees anyways, then it's time to 'surrender' to the will of the Borg collecti ... eh... I mean, Wiki community. But regardless of number of people, you can always use logic instead guts: I'm afraid this is one of those cases when no Dev confirmation is required due to sheer obviousness. You are still free to ask a dev, but well, dev pages would get cluttered with trivia reference consultations if we did this with each and every single one of them, which I don't think would be desirable. Maybe there could be a Triva project like the Unanswered questions one, and leave the questions there and inform Devs of their existence, and while the don't get answered, we use the trivia entries most users agree with.MithTalk 13:49, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all, just compare "Long Island Iced Tea" with "Battle Island Iced Tea". That's a nice starting hint.
 * There are other "isle/island iced tea" beverages, but all of them are variants of the Long Island one, so they themselves are like 'references' to the original drink, this is a bit far-fetched, but it still would be noting a reference of a reference instead an original, which we don't do, we note the original as much as we can.
 * The Long Island Iced Tea is the original version and the most widely know worldwide. I know the Long Island name since I can remember, and I'm from Spain, but I had to google for the variants, and I never heard of them ever before. It's one of the most widely known highball drinks along Gin Tonics, Cuba Libres, Mai Tais and Bloody Marys. No one can deny it. I've also seen many cases of media in other countries, for example, more than once in Japanese romantic comedies and I've seen this drink served by accident by waiters in Karaoke instead actual iced tea as a device (along the taste of the alcohol being ignored) to make some minors drunk for comedic purposes.

"I Am Unstoppable"
just a curious question, if you have IAU active when you drink, do you still get KD :)Spark-TBa 21:27, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That is an interesting query. One would have to try that in an explorable. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 19:05, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/691/gw002uf.jpg/ Why only IAU? 79.138.191.249 23:49, 17 June 2011 (UTC) Results: had a few tries, doesnt KD under any ANTI kd skill(tried one at a time first)
 * I think it was to see if the user would get "knocked" back or not. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 23:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)