Talk:Smiter's Boon (PvP)

Needs

 * "all your smiting skills are disabled for 5 seconds." 76.26.189.65 01:35, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

and exhaustion147.26.239.229 01:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

That's a little silly :\ 211.27.177.119 03:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Add 99% blood sacrifice Alexandurs 22:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I absolutely love this skill... makes me actually lol everytime i see it again...--68.146.69.201 02:10, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh my god, yes, please give it 99% blood sacrifice! We could to crazy s#!% with that. --76.166.187.131 20:24, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Notice
As this talk page has been full of personal attacks and disruption since its creation, all discussion of the skill itself has been moved to ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Monk/Smiter's Boon (PvP).

This talk page is restricted to discussion of the Smiter's Boon (PvP) article only. Discussion which may still be useful but doesn't belong on this talk page (e.g. about the skill's quality) will be moved to the appropriate place; discussion which is inappropriate may be removed entirely -- this is left to admin discretion. Users who do not follow these rules or revert an admin acting on these rules may be blocked without further warning.

This is to ensure this talk page can be used for its original function, and to keep suggestions and feedback where they belong. -- Brains12 \ talk 22:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update: as the personal attacks and disruption have stopped, and the subject is less volatile as it after yesterday's update, this talk page will resume 'normal' service. It is still encouraged that feedback and suggestions go on the ArenaNet pages. This talk page will still be watched by administrators; as always, personal attacks and trolling are not acceptable. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Ways to actually use this skill now.
My previous message here was an attempt at serious discussion for skill usage. So you move serious discussion on how to use this skill out of of talk page too? Thought the above comment explained this would not happen. Aro 03:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sysops are informed before hand what skills would be expose to hate talk. They take the adequate actions as not to expose the page to hate talk since they(not sysops but GW developing team) want this pages for talk changes in articles to fix numbers, pictures and function changes. Is something you understand later on.--ShadowFog 14:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice generic responce that doesn't give much of an answer. Could you be any more condescending? Aro 15:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If it related to the skill and not to balance, feel free to move it back. A bunch of non-sysops have taken it upon themselves to move stuff, and many of them get it wrong. - Auron 16:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I moved it -- it totally ignored the message the top. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 16:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Combines well with Deny Hexes even for 2ndaries monks lololol Eth 21:05, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Who put the Notes part there.
Who ever put the Notes part in the main page should'nt have done that. this is a wiki. not an advisitory board. and whats weird...is I can't fix it. btw izzy. just one question. Why did you nerf this? that is all. 70.121.168.43 02:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The 3 smite monk / 1 RaO Axe team in TA or the 3 RaO Axe / 4 Smite Monk + a runner team in GvG/HA should give you a clue... 207.172.176.219 21:45, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Izzy doesn't give a fuck about TA. As for GvG, the problem was with heroes (as all the smite monks used were typically heroes) and not this skill directly. If anything, this deserves a longer recharge (such as 20) to make it more susceptible to enchantment removal. But Izzy is too busy making Guild Wars 2 (AKA World of Warcraft), and doesn't have time to think about what he does. No one working for A-Net does. 66.202.1.169 21:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

A little overkill in my, no... in everyone's opinion
Sure it was obliviously seeking to be nerfed (The mixture of damage/buffets and minor cover healing), but why take it out of play entirely? with the recharge time it now has it doesn't deserve the duration nerf too, maybe next time just one or the other eh? 6 or 8 second duration with a 20 second recharge might be what you seek (that way one would be forced to activate it when it may be required). Hope this has helped...? 203.212.159.41 16:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They wanted to ensure it wouldn't see the light of day. It was a broken concept, not just a broken skill; so they removed it for the time being, hoping that (in the future) they could alter the complete design instead of just tweaking some numbers. - Auron 16:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

That's really the only reason I'm paying attention to this nerf ... the whole "We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we ma... etc" ordeal, I'm yet to actually play a smiting role as of yet... 203.212.159.41 16:49, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you watch obs? People were running 5 monk GvG builds simply because of smiters boon. There was a hugely popular TA build that had 3 smite monks and 1 axe R/W (with 3 interrupts). It was getting a bit ridiculous. So instead of nerfing each of the smite skills individually, they removed the crux of the issue; the ability to keep a team alive with just smites. It's sort of like how they nerfed Divine Boon oh so long ago, so people couldn't just powerheal via prots. - Auron 19:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * All that and Izzy has made it abundantly clear he has a grudge against Smite Prayers, which is fine I guess up to a point. It does make me wonder if maybe the smite line was a flawed concept to begin with.  I mean we are talking about a ton of potential for armor ignoring damage.  I will agree that the trips monk smiter setup was annoying as hell but no worse than your garden variety toucher, fun to play, but annoying.  98.219.48.111 22:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be fine if he could do his job "balancing" anything else instead of just nerfing these things to please GvGers. RitualDoll 04:37, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Smite will now become obsolete again. 76.186.15.83 06:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was sort of the whole idea behind the nerf. - Auron 06:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ovreklil GDOO...Me lkie ovreklli. Super Range Ranger 23:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Killing this skill
Was a very good move of A-net, at least it killed some of the lame meta stuff. Perhaps Guild Wars will be balanced now, woot. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  09:20, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good joke. - Auron 09:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, theres still gay Spike sins that Izzy won't friggin nerf already. Visions of Regret is being used to much now Since its a better Single target SS. Heck...Even Oath Shot needs to be changed so it only Recharges Non-elite skillz(For PvE of course). Grenths Avatar should be changed so it also Deals Extra Damage to Enchanted foes. Why am I putting my suggestions here? someone direct me to Izzy's Skill sugestion Page. TY.

->Sharingaun Dervish 70.121.168.43 22:56, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Smite monks are no were near as troublesome as what the res of the meta has been for the past... 6+ months? This change was totally uncalled for and should have been at the bottom of their to do list, which I don't think exists. 68.47.192.6 05:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps "Your spells and attacks have X% armour penetration for each enchantment on you (Max X%)"? Blah10

even with the nerf, this skill is very good--Tipttt 21:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Constructive
I maintain a section on my userspace for skills that I believe are underpowered. I believe that all skills should be equally as viable on a bar, by which I mean to say, certain skills should not just be decidedly better than other skills. Take, for instance, Distracting Shot or Savage Shot over Disrupting Shot. They should all have their strong and weak points, but should be, overall, balanced. For skills that just don't quite measure up, I maintain my page.

As I was reviewing that page, I noticed that this wasn't on there, and recalled that I had originally decided to abstain from including it because it was supposed to be completely removed from play. However, it was also supposed to be a temporary removal, and it's still not back. So I'm no longer abstaining from calling this underpowered.

I believe the inherent problem was the ability to deal damage at a steady (and sometimes, rather high) rate while also healing on a level like that of Orison of Healing (which admittedly isn't that great, but seeing as it's free?) with every spell. As I stated somewhere earlier, and someone else before me, before the move to whatever talk pages, the concept was broken.

So the way I would approach it would be to cut back on the healing. Smiting isn't supposed to heal. That's what Healing Prayers are for. Sure, some of them protect allies, but the way I see it, Smiting should be primarily about, well, smiting. So on that note, I added the following to my page:

Smiter's Boon (PvP)

 * Added due to the fact that it's still not back in the game.
 * Suggested functionality changes:
 * Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this enchantment, your spells grant no benefit from Divine Favor but your Smiting Prayers deal % more damage.  This enchantment ends if you use any non-Smiting skills.  Raine Valen 19:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, so it kind of goes against the whole divine favor attribute. But it was broken as it was, from concept forward.  It needed to be entirely redesigned. Raine Valen 19:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * How? Think of it like this, You are using your prowess in Divine favor to redirect the healing energies within your body to come out as aggression, thus dealing more damage with your smites--70.105.17.14 14:55, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this enchantment, whenever you cast a spell, target and all adjacent creatures take  Holy damage and you lose 2 energy.  This enchantment ends if you use any non-Smiting skills.  Raine Valen 19:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, this is kind of anti-divine favor (in fact, I tried to make it the exact opposite of Divine Boon), but for the same reason. While it may look OP here, consider, you're also doing a nice job of singing whatever ally you're casting spells on.  Think like, spammable Ancestor's Rage that hurts whoever you cast it on.  Raine Valen 19:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I know, the numbers are a bit high.

Now, I know this may be the wrong place for this, but I think it will get more attention here. If you really feel it necessary to move it, do so. But I believe the original intention of the moves was to get the personal attacks and QQing off of the talk page; I'm doing neither of those, or at least, I don't believe I am. I'd just like to get some sort of constructive input in on this issue.

Please, if anyone has a constructive suggestion, put it down. I'd like to see this skill back in some other form. Raine Valen 20:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Part of the problem smiting has always had is it's more or less virtually unstoppable, unmitigatable armor-ignoring damage with retardedly high spike potential. The last thing it needs is a large damage increase. It's weird, in normal play smiting is either underpowered, narrow, or unwieldy, but in gimmicky stuff it's infuriatingly overpowered. So no, a damage buff would not be a terribly good idea. Maybe something that gives your smiting prayers a duration bonus, or a cost reduction, or resistance to being stripped. Krelus Derian 04:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but consider this: spike teams will be spike teams and will continue to exist, regardless of whether they're smiting or using other absurdly overpowered superspike gimmicks. I think the issue wasn't the damage, but the ability to deal damage like that while at the same time healing your allies almost on par with a prot monk.  If spiking is the problem, I think this version of smiter's boon would still be inferior to previously-mentioned OMGWTFpwn spikes, considering that you have to remove a condition/hex for two of the more-painful skills to work, Reversal of Damage doesn't stack, and other such requirements.  Of course, for such things as Spear of Light, the recharge doesn't make it viable for any sort of real spike.  So while spike potential may be high, spike-team potential is relatively low.  Raine Valen 01:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You know, I agree, because this cheap combo isn't nearly broken enough already. EDIT: Furthermore, because ONE tactic is broken is no reason to make even more overpowered gimmicks. Krelus Derian 03:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Shove disables non-attack skills. So that combo doesn't work.
 * The fact that there are more overpowered spikes than this would be was meant as a secondary argument. The fact still stands that as a team, there simply isn't enough to smite to create any sort of real spike.  Okay, you could smite condition once or twice for 100+ damage, but finding an ally with six conditions stacked on them in order to create a spike would make such a tactic even more "narrow or unwieldy".  And, even with that aside, holy damage is just that: damage.  As such, it can be mitigated in the same manner as any high-damage spike.  Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, etc.  Armor-ignoring is bad, but I think that the very conditional (pun not intended) of the smiting line makes up for that.
 * Now, I don't like shovesmite. AoE shovesmite with even higher damage would be even worse.  But, as you stated yourself, considering one broken tactic for the basis of judging a line is silly.  I mean, by the same token, I could bring up the RaO smite team and say that damage dealing isn't the problem; the healing was and because of the function of that one team, taking out the healing would make the entire smiting line so much less imbalanced.  Which would be equally as ludicrous.
 * Increasing the duration of smiting prayers wouldn't do much with the vast majority of the line. A cost reduction would be nice, but making a non-elite version of Healer's Covenant that allows you to heal while dealing damage (the original problem) at an even lower cost isn't really a great idea.  I don't believe that a mechanic exists to make enchantments strip-resistant (other than cover enchantments, but that's not exactly a mechanic; more of a use for an existing one), but if it did, I think it would still see much more play... just about anywhere else.  Terra Tanks, Eles that use Attunemtnt(s), Prot monks, passive healers, the entire Dervish class, Minion Masters, Wammos...  I don't think Smiting would be the line to implement that in.
 * Now, I do appreciate that you offered alternatives, but just as you say to mine, I don't think those alternatives would be the right ones. Feel free to visit my page and add more (with documentation, please).  Thanks for the feedback, and you're welcome to the dissection of said feedback.  Raine Valen 20:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoa, that "smite condition" thing gave me an insane idea to use Foul Feast / Draw / Martyr and four copies of Smite Conditions. That'd be funny to lug around in TA just to confuse the hell out of a condition spamming team. Completely useless, though. One of my hobbies is to come up with silly team builds... XD Krelus Derian 04:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

- 10/2/40, For seconds, your Smiting Prayers that target an ally heal that ally for + Health, and you lose 1 Energy.
 * Kind of like Zealot's Fire but without being extravagantly myopic like the original incarnation of this skill. ~Seef II &lt;◈|۞&gt; 00:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

New Suggestion: Role Switching Skill

 * Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus, but deal no damage.
 * This version restores the old healing potential at the price of damage, giving a smiter the ability to "switch" between damage and healing roles using a second synergistic skill such as Contemplation of Purity to drop Smiter's Boon early.
 * This allows a smiter to lead a dynamic role: damage when they can, heal when they must.
 * Discuss. Cirian 02:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)  (OMG I remembered my password at last! xD)

Suggestion: remove ability to "top off" bars

 * "Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, when you use a Smiting Prayers skill on an ally, if that ally is below 40%...70% health, that ally is healed for 3.2 points per rank in Divine Favor." The numbers can be changed, but the idea is that it makes smiting insufficient to keep a team up but still allows them to provide more clutch healing.

think the numbers are a bit high. maybe make 50% the max. and even that is pushing it, the whole reason this was nerfed was because of the heal, and not many heal unless they need healing. 70% is def too high. Roflmaomgz 02:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 70% is too high? Have you noticed that many skills carry a condition of <50% health in PvP? Also, a dervish with Wounding Strike alone, which is very common in PvP, could dominate someone with only 50% health. =\ --Curin Derwin 04:32, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: Damage Conversion

 * Enchantment Spell For 10 seconds: Smiting Prayers that target an ally deal no damage but when they would cause damage that Ally is healed for that amount.
 * This change is similar to Cirian's suggestion, however I think it is a fairer on account that it turns targeted smites into slightly weaker Healing/Protection prayers.   Ashir 11:58 15 December 2008 (Central)

Suggestion: Smiting Prayers +2
cost: 10e / cast time: 1s / recharge: 10s
 * Enchantment Spell For 1..12..15 seconds: You have +2 Smiting Prayers.
 * This would bring back more smiter monks without them being overpowered. Because it's an enchantment it can be easily removed, the duration is average and the cost of 10 energy would force monks to have good energy management skills. Johnny Rodrigues 12:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * honestly i have to say i like this idea.... but! i think it should be +1..2..2..3 :)--Uchiha Lena 04:40, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I like this one too.... Roflmaomgz 02:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: Reduce energy cost of Smiting Prayers
cost: 10e / cast time: 1s / recharge: 20s
 * Enchantment Spell For 5..17..20 seconds: Your Smiting Prayers spells cost 5...41...50% of the base Energy.
 * This could be like a monk version of Attuned Was Songkai or Renewing Memories for smiting spells. Although most smiting prayers spells cost between 5 and 10 energy there's no real use for this enchantment unless it reduces 40% or more of the base energy cost, and this is achieved by investing points in divine favor. Johnny Rodrigues 13:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You guys have no idea how broken smiting is even without sboon.Pika Fan 13:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's more like hexes(and blind) is broken, and smiting prayers is a good counter to it ;/ Unexist 14:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * They both are broken.Smiting should be support and anet kinda turned them into half monks with extra dommage by giving smiters boon and smite condition.I personally think that if they didnt introduce RoD and smite condition a lot of problems would have been prevented Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:53, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: Convert Divine Favor Bonus Heal into Damage
cost: 10e / cast time: 1s / recharge: 20s Comments? - SabreWolf 07:08, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Enchantment Spell For 5..17..20 seconds: Your Divine Favor health bonus is halved and converted into damage bonus. (This bonus only applies to Smiting Prayers spells)
 * This means that if you have 10 in Divine Favor, this would boost your Smiting Prayer's damage to +16 damage to your Smiting Prayers spells ONLY
 * Note the damage would be Holy Damage. (armor ignoring)
 * If you think about it, spells like Ray of Judgement would do 61 dgm/sec (45+16).
 * Since this only affects Smiting Prayers, and the skill is Divine Favor based, Monk primaries are still the only ones that can use it.
 * A full Divine Favor conversion to +32 damage seems too much...
 * RoJ is close enough to OP as it is, don't need another skill to make it more so. --Link4all 17:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: Aggressive punishment
cost: 5e / cast time: .25s / recharge: 20s
 * Enchantment Spell For 5..17..20 seconds: Your smiting prayers that target any ally have +6 smiting prayers. Divine Favor does not affect your Smiting Prayers.
 * Basically this shifts the supportive smiting prayers (What few there are) into more aggressive damage dealers in exchange for ditching the free healing effect. -- Ckal Ktak [[image:Technobabble.jpg|20px]] 20:41, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

eh no lol. +6 are you serious? would be awesome fun for april fools maybe but holy smack +6...Roflmaomgz 02:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC) CAST TIME 25 SECONDS???!!! u can have a coffee while waiting for the casting time lol--88.16.232.238 17:48, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * That would be .25 seconds, that is, a quarter of a second. --Aldarik 17:50, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: Divine Boon Mimic
- 5/0.25/20, For seconds, your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus. For each ally healed in this way, you lose Energy.
 * It's like Divine Boon, but with smiting prayers and no upkeep. --Curin Derwin 04:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

R.I.P
R.I.P Smiters boon(PVP) We will miss you and your overpowered'ness-- Neil2250  Evil Mantis Eats Ragers. 21:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

TA Removal
So considering this skill was removed because of its overpowered nature in TA and GvG, what happens now that TA is removed? Just a food-for-thought. --Curin Derwin 04:40, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing, that's the joke, you're supposed to laugh. :'D Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 05:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay izzy
you can stop ignoring this skill now. You broke it now fix it. Jerk. Briar 02:05, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

i agree Beserkiller 01:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Izzy doesn't work on guild wars anymore, his time is spent exclusively working on GW2 (guess we know how GW2 is gonna turn out lol)--TahiriVeila 21:24, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Joke skill
anet is making fun of us, jutst look, 5seconds 25nrgy 90recharge... to make its more fun it should be 5 secs cast--83.53.184.169 19:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Congrats, you're only seven months late and you still don't know about game balance. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 19:32, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Who still cares about game balance ? Even I quit the game so I don't know who still plays activly :3 Yeen  20:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

MAKE IT ELITE &mdash; The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.234.222.13 (talk) at 07:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC).
 * Bad joke is bad :/ - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  07:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ...the April Fool's update actually listed changing the cast time to 5 seconds. I loled.

Wait a second... If combined with Echo, this skill could be more potent than echo mending! *takes Echo Smiter's Boon to RA*
 * You can use it every minute-and-a-half or so for full Energy! -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  16:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Why was this nerfed?
I haven't played in 3 years or so, I do have played EotN. What made this skill so game breaking? What were the stats?
 * As of current meta, it isnt gamebreaking... reason enchantment removal. --96.240.34.47 01:56, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It was the same as the pve version. Read the discussion above if you want to know why it was broken. 83.197.62.159 16:43, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

this skill
Is it seriously THIS bad? 25e 90second recharge wuttttttt24.150.172.7 23:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's worse. Actually, it does not even function! User Judas Sig.pngudas 14:02, 4 July 2011 (UTC)