Talk:Shadow Fang

Too long of cooldown to see use. --76.2.226.20 00:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Just like deaths charge and dark prison the recharge is too long to really want to use DVDA 05:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed...nice idea but 1 spike every 45 seconds just isnt going to make its way into any meta. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 02:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Could have an interesting knockdown/deep wound combo with scorpion wire but otherwise recharges are a bit too long. 203.217.0.53 03:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * needs a reasonable recharge then would possibly see use as a cover hex. Otherwise the deep wound takes too long to be useful. And is projected so easily removed. Maybe make the Deep wound happen on shadowstep, still tied to the hex, and become removed on removal of the hex... Would then be great for a spike, but would completely counter the spike on removal. Around 20s rech is standard on reasonable shadowsteps nowadays. 45 is way too long to be effective.--Midnight08 08:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty much useless. You manage to almost kill the target ... Deep Wound takes the target to 1hp ... one more hit necessary to finish him off ... BUT NO! You are now miles away. GG. --MasterPatricko 09:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Health degen, never heared of that? --YukoIshii 17:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oo? if it takes you 10 seconds to kill the target you're doing something wrong anyway=P Or they have enough protection on them that a deep wound isnt going to mean much--Midnight08 13:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I see this more as a solo farming skill more than anything else. --Rururrur 17:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to know what will happen when this faces Hex Breaker. --Ufelder 17:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't get this skill. I just don't. I can't see myself ever using it. Bad effect, bad recharge, uncontrollable, bad synergy options (only one really is Scorpion Wire and that's a skill suffering from nearly the same problems)... It seems like a totally random skill atm, care to give us an idea of what was the thought behind this and what it was supposed to be used for? Patccmoi 15:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well the idea was to create a Hex in and out type of teleport, I do question the high recharge I don't think any of the 45s recharge skills get much use. The deepwound is odd, You can make some fun builds without Twisting because of this, but I do agree the numbers a bit off. It's fun when used with shatter delusions, as you can control when you leave. I think the numbers just need tweaking I mean if this had 0 recharge it would be insane. Clearly there is a number between 0-45 that is correct. ~Izzy @-&#39; 01:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Why would this be fun with Shatter Delusions? =P Mikey 01:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Shatter Delusions only affects mesmer hexes anyway...Luminarus 08:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Most of the people I've talked to have opted for a 30 sec recharge on the non elite shadow steps but the deep wound accompanied by this one is kind of clumsy considering you need the extra hit for the deep wound to take effect but you will be out of range and the target will most likely be healed enough if they do last 10 seconds so that the deep wound wouldn't make it lethal. DVDA 05:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The "Chose when you want to end it" would be great, if it actually was possible. Ending on dual would be OK, since you could use this, then L->O->D, tele out at the end (causing DW), and then follow up with one of the "follows a dual" skills (Sig of Deadly Corruption would work well) for a finisher. With this and a 30s recharge, I'd then think about maybe trying it. But at the moment, it's another skill that serves no useful function, and has a terrible recharge to boot. 9th Requiem 11:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It has some synergy I guess with Black Spider Strike. This -> Black Spider Strike -> (Dual) -> Impale -> Signet of Toxic Shock. This combo is usually enough to kill a caster, with this skill you would have an escape route. However, the recharge on it is just crap and kind of makes it unusable. --Deathwing 15:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Shadow walk + Dash > This! .... Maybe you could move the recharge down to 20 secodns, so it would see use, but make the deep wound only apply should the hex remain on for the full 10 secodns. This would mean that the opposite team had a decent enough chance to prevent it. and at 20 recharge i think it would see more use. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 18:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes the 45 sec shadow steps are desperatly in need of buffs. I think that shadowstepping should be some how tied to assasin only, or maybe just severly peniltized for other professions. Such as crit strikes making shadowstep spells cost less. Does anet believe that shadowstepping is some kind of godly power? I mean really, all it does is draw aggro to you atm and move to a spot that is pretty much "in the area" which really isnt that strong at all. Anyways enough ranting, plane and simple skill needs shorter recharge and after 1-3 attacks causes deep wound. --Lou-Saydus 18:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ya, for offensive shadowsteps to see more play, they need to be reduced to around 30s cooldown (not really less though, i use Shadow Walk all the time and the 30s recharge on it is perfect to have it be a good option but not something you can use every single spike, which makes for brainless play ala Shadow Prison), and shadowsteps need to have a downside for non-assassins (i always liked something like 'shadowstepping disable all non-assassin skill for 2 seconds. It would also control Return on monks a bit. It would still be a solid option for monks, but not something to use mindlessly whenever a melee happens to run by you, cause if he's spiking the guy besides you and your infuse is on 2s recharge it'd suck). And... this won't work as an offensive shadowstep with an hex. I mean, what does this have over Dark Prison? At all? Dark Prison is totally superior to this (i actually do use Dark Prison sometimes). If you want an escape route, you want one you can actually control, and it's not the case here. In fact, it's much, much more likely that your 'escape route' will instead just end your combo in the middle because they happened to remove the hex and you get ported back. And as others said... there IS no synergy with Shatter Delusion =p. All the Shatter stuff only work on Mesmer hex, otherwise you'd see PBond get Shattered a damn lot i'm sure! Patccmoi 21:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Assassin's Promise elite in this line would let you do your hex-required combo, and when they die everything recharges and gives you energy back. Possibly, you could do the Promise hex and then use this to cover, teleport in with Deathwing's Combo, and you have one corpse, and one fully recharged assassin. - Elder Angelus 20:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

This skill is just bad. Everything about it is bad and counter productive. Have it cancel the hex when the second strike of a dual attack hit or something ... A bit like the old school Impale. At least this way you would have some control over it. But the recharge alone still makes it unusable ... just like Dark Prison. Shendaar 13:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of an in and out hex, kind of like an AoD for hexers. But I can't see a use for Shadow Fang as it stands in competitive play, casual PvP, or even PvE.  Existing skills work better for going in and out quickly/controllably.
 * It could be re-purposed as a quick in and out, meant for Dancing Daggers as the lead. 5e 15r: "Must follow a lead attack. Shadow Step to target foe. For 1...10 seconds, the second time you hit the target with an attack you inflict a Deep Wound for 5...10 seconds and Shadow Step back to your original location."  An assassin bouncing in and out for a couple hits would look cool, and might be effective.  Note it says "Second Time" rather than "Next Time".  This enables an off-hand and the first hit of a dual attack, or Palm Strike and an entire dual attack, or just a normal dagger Dual Strike.
 * Such a combo probably couldn't kill on it's own, but could be useful for applying a deep wound in a coordinated spike or finishing off a degened target. --Drekmonger 10:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea for the skill, the recharge time is terrible though. Like Death's charge and Dark Prison before it, I won't be using this skill unless it sees a better recharge time. Which is a shame, all of those skills have great potential marred by poor recharge times due to some chance of being abused by non Assassins? I hope that, like Ritualists with their weapon spells and binding rituals, Assassins are given some way of distinguishing themselves from other professions when it comes to Shadow Stepping. Then we might see the end of long recharges to "prevent abuse," no skill should take that long to recharge for an instant effect. GhostBear 02:35, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd rather see it worded like this. Shadow Step to target foe.  For 2..5 seconds target foe is hexed with a Deep Wound (or has 20% less health and is immune to Deep Wound if you want to ignore putting a Condition attached to a hex).  When it ends you Shadow Step back.  That I think would see TONS of use if it got it's recharge dropped to 30 like the other Shadow Steps. You'd have to spec in to get a duration that would allow enough time to kill.  It'd bring Deep Wound or an affect like it prior to hitting which seems to be Sins problems.  Although they do get Golden Fang now so that might be irrelevant.  As a bonus it makes those PBAoE Ele's usuable in PvP as a spike.  Whether it's obnoxious or not is a different story. Gothica 00:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Skill Synergy
I believe, if this skill works first, that if you combined it with scorpion wire, you would teleport away from them, then teleport back to them, KDing them, then you could use Falling Lotus Strike Let us hope it works that way. The recharge on it certainly needs to be lowered... LordSojar 18:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The hex still needs to stay for 10 seconds.... maybe scale the 10 seconds backwards based on DA or something? I just cant see hexes lasting on any important target for enough time to time this in a way to be useful... And in Pve, this would be way too much effort for a deep wound andKN... 1 of the Ox Skills and Impale and u have it. --Midnight08 19:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Reversed Skills...
What's up with ANet and their skill reversals, especially on Assassins? Aura of Displacement and Shadow Meld. Death's Charge and Death's Retreat. Augury of Death and this skill.

vs. Shadow Prison
Sigh...will never replace shadow prison. Lightblade 01:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Amen, we will always have BOA, sigh, or at least the memories--Lorddarkflare 03:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Will never replace many shadow steps. 45 second recharge is just no. If it was weaker it would replace the elite Shadow Prison though. So....45 seconds is too long, 20 seconds is too short. Maybe 30 seconds would be more reasonable? --Deathwing 00:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Even with 20 this wouldnt replace Shadow Prison, the shadow step + Snare is its strength. 25-30 secs could be acceptable tho. The Deep Wound at the end and the forced return arent very helpful. REALLY wish this could be a stance..., if i could cancel it it'd be great... Really need it to be a bit less uncontyrolled and slow.--Midnight08 06:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that killing your target would deactivate this; hence the "escape route" idea. True, the Deep Wound would be pointless then, but it seems to be a moot point in most of the situations described anyway. -- Da Si 21:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Ideas
This skill really needs some help. The Deep Wound at the start, Damage instead of Deep Wound, 20% -heal for duration, SOMETHING to make it more useful. I see 1 use for it, and its counterproductive to where the devs seem to want to go with assassins. This skill seems to be meant to give assns a shadowstep hex with an escape built in. Even so, 45r and the most potent effect at the end ruins it. Give it a moderate scaling damage at lead and ill use it, give it an effect other than deep wound at end and i'll use it, Maybe life steal? Either way as it stands it gives an effect the target will most likely already have (Impale, Aug, TF all common and all provide DW) and provides it when its needed least (5 seconds after the assn completes his combo, the targets either dead or healed. If he's dead i dont need DW, if hes heale dw wont mean much. Does anyone else have a few ideas on making this work a bit better?--Midnight08 07:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think they are expecting this to help finish a spike. As far as i see, the 'sin was never really meant as a full killer, it was meant as a class to either leave a foe mostly dead for others to finish/get in on a weak foe and finish him.  I can see this working semi decent with an augury o' deth sin. (if only the 2 skills caused diff conditions) ‽-(eronth)  I gi  ve up  20:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 10 seconds is too long a wait to "finish a spike" The assassin will get his combo out within 5 seconds, after that there is a good 5 seconds before this skill has any useful effect, by then the target is dead or healed and this effect is wasted.--Midnight08 03:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Make it end next time you finish a Dual attack. Lowering the recharge would be a good idea too. --Deathwing 16:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Consider this very cool re-work of SF

 * Shadow Fang (rename it 'Shadow Mob')


 * You and adjacent allies Shadow Step to target foe but can't be enchanted for 15 seconds. For 1..6..7 seconds, this Hex does nothing. When this Hex ends, each of you return to your original location. Deadly Arts Hex - 15e/2c/30r

It works great as a way for a co-ordinated group to slip to the back line simultaneously for some intense target pounding (7 seconds max). Melee, PBAoE Eles, etc. would join in on the fun. Counters include Hex removal (Holy Veil banishes everyone back to whence they came), telegraphing the use of the skill (look for the 2 second cast and a bunch of allies grouping close to each other) as well as the inability for each shadow-stepping ally to be protected by enchantments for 15s. With no enchantments possible they become much more vulnerable targets for the opposing team to take down. This spell is also expensive to use.

Testing would reveal further tweaks that need to be done, but I like the overall concept of the revision when compared to the current description. --arredondo 18:18, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * /notsigned. Clunkiest skill in the game, and turns your whole team into LEEEROY's. --Deathwing 18:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I matched the text of the original description, except switiching in the enchant part for the Deep Wound part, and of course expanding the Shadow Step to include adjacent allies.


 * However I do notice a problem with my revision... ally griefing. I can see myself running up to my Monky teammate with this and teleporting him in the middle of a pack of hungry Assassins knowing full well he can't enchant up to protect himself. As much as I love rolling on the floor laughing should I ever get to pull this off, I have to admit that this kind of concept can't work in GW =P. --arredondo 21:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be funny to tick people off in RA with this, but I doubt this skill would ever happen. --- Raptors
 * That would be fun in alliance battles. Teleport all allies into base defense.
 * Nah, it's pretty much a goal of ANet's that you not be able to significantly and intentionally Harm an ally. As interesting as I find this, I can't see it making it. 72.148.243.147 17:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Editing
With the recent change to shadow steps recharge, do you guys think shadow fang's recharge will be lowered too?

Even with lowered recharge I personally see this as the least useful skill from GWEN. 45 recharge and I imagine that if it gets stripped it will make you return back to your casting place.
 * Well with luck you will finish ya chain as soon as they remove it :) --Deathwing 04:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion
The problem with this skill is the undesirable 10 second duration that can't be remedied by simply tinkering with the number. This skill should be more like this:

Shadow Fang

10/.25/30 (I assume it'll also get a 30 second recharge like Death's Charge and Dark Prison)

Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 10 seconds, the next time you hit target foe with a dual attack skill, you return to your original location and that foe suffers a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds.

This makes it similar to AoD chains because of the in->combo->out aspect. You'll probably need to do a lead->off-hand->dual combo to get a good amount of damage, as you can't use double dual attacks, but I'm sure Izzy and company want people to move away from off-hand->dual->off-hand->dual chains. Black Mantis Thrust->Jungle Strike->Trampling Ox, maybe?

Also, shadow stepping cancels attacks, so you won't get the second hit. Maybe they could make it so it works on the second hit. Or, they could make it like the old "hex" Impale but not crappy:

Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 10 seconds, the next time you hit target foe with a dual attack skill, that foe takes 25...85...100 earth damage and suffers from Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds. When Shadow Fang ends, you return to your original location.

--Heelz 07:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Or your first version can say...
 * Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 10 seconds, the next time you hit target foe with a dual attack skill, you return to your original location one second later and that foe suffers a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds.
 * It would play out smoothly on the battlefield that way. --arredondo 15:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Skill Weakness
And not just because of numbers. The mechanics allows very little control over timing of the deep wound. As in...most of us uses deep wound as a free 100 damage, but this skill's deep wound only apply after 10 seconds and any assassin combo can finish in 6 seconds. Then we have to wait another 4 seconds for the deep wound to land for the kill. Lightblade 06:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, dropping the timer to 8 seconds seems justified, But I like the way you don't need any deadly arts to score the kill with this one. Slightly worried about it going the way of augary of death. --Ckal Ktak 11:47, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Needs a Mechanics change
this skill at worst will be useless and if a use is found will be overpowered, many suggestions have been made above, but in the end this skill definately needs a change of mechanics. First of all the effect has to happen sooner, and the recharge brought to 30. Second, the effect really should happen at the start of the attack, or its effect should coincide with the length of an attack. (IE end on dual, or somehow treated as maintained). Heck, howabout a quick low cost shadowstep that deep wounds the caster? i dunno, just something different. I would sure use it is it was a 15 or 20 That Deepwounded me on end while i escaped. Basically an in/out skill with a cost... As it is now it will only see play if it can be abused by casters - and then only with a much faster recharge. For that, you might as well not bother with it--Midnight08 10:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I really like the idea of this skill, and I have been playtesting it extensively both in PvE and in scrimmages against my guildies (it's not ready for any real PvP action yet). Taking up your elite space with Glyph of Renewal combats the lengthy recharge time; however, I have rarely seen the deepwound take effect - unless my target is a particularly hard boss they are always dead before the hex ends (granted I haven't gone solo with a Shadow Fang build, but I'd like to see this as more than just a farming skill) this defeats the purpose of equipping the skill in the first place. The duration of this hex needs reducing - it would be nice to reduce the recharge time too, but if that would leave it ridiculously overpowered fair enough leaving it as is. Nessarose


 * I'd add the phrase 'Counts as a Lead Attack'. That, and maybe even Crippling the target foe. Either of two, though I'd like to see both. This way, synergy with Trampling Ox and Jungle Strike is achieved. Which is still better than what it is now. Saphatorael 12:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * um yeah no use, thi shas no aftercast, ignoring energy and recharge, its insane for spikes, monks cant catch, and if you dual team, the last cast overrides the first, returning the first caster back inflicting deepwound, and shadowstep to them, there is so many ways to abuse this, like Hmm, a vampiric build i wont divulge. o.o Annoying And Deadly 02:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Bugged?
I just did some tests and the duration of this skill seems tied to the Deadly Arts attribute and not set at 10 seconds like the description claims. Looks like it lasts as long as it claims the Deep Wound will last. GhostBear 18:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * mgod lol, if it wasnt 45 sec rech i'd love it. seems perfect at around 0-1 DA which means 5-6 secs is perfect.--Midnight08 04:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Was just testing this with Assassin's Promise: It seems like it'd be nice.. buttt.. as noted, it doesn't last only 10 seconds. It lasted until AP had already worn off, which, at 15 Deadly Arts, is 15 seconds, leading me to assume that the shadow step is lasting as long as the deep wound duration should, as previously mentioned. Also, agreed. Needs some reworking. I'd like to see Deep Wound on step with a 15 second recharge and possibly Elite status. If elite, a 33% speed reduction would make it a bit more balanced, I'd think, as would self-Deep Wound. (The self-Deep Wound would cause users to be very wary of degen after a spike.) It would be a light snare with a prior Deep Wound, and a nice rubberband ability. Without the "surprise" deep wound, like that which Impale provides, it wouldn't be terribly devastating, but would certainly help to frighten opponents. The snare would keep your target relatively close-at-hand. The rubberband would allow for a nice chance to escape. Meh.. All in all, the skill needs some reworking. Cedave 05:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There are no elites in GW:EN. Making it elite wouldn't be an option. Besides, looking at the Shadow Prison massacres, I doubt they really want more hex jumps in the meta... 71.179.85.164 18:40, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Hex Duration
From what I've tested, the deadly arts attribute affects the hex duration and not the deepwound duration. Let's hope that the skill's description is only a misprint and not a bug.- (Japanties 23:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC))

This could work?
A build I saw someone using in RA... Shadow Fang -> Iron Palm -> Bed of Coals -> Entangling Asp -> Star Burst -> Flame Djinn's Haste -> Signet of Toxic Shock -> Shadow Fang Ends. Decimated our monk, but left the ele half useless for 35 seconds =/ --Srakin 18:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * k i just edited the hast --> haste, and also put links in|Killer demon [[Image:User Killer demon User-Killer demon.jpg|19px]] 18:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * that might have been me, but i was using somehthing similar to that way back in November. Annoying And Deadly

"ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO ME"
lol just my name for the build

Deadly Arts:14 Fire Magic:12 It is a build ive been using for some time, its very effective in AB. usually kills a group of foes in 4 seconds. note that this is a capping build, not very reliable vs players, however its fun in pve and can clear out the usual suxon mobs Xd just thought i'd share this.skills should be used from left to right.. obviously-- Arrythmia  17:19, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * sorry but... why shadow fang? xDDDDDD i dont know why people uses dis skill... --89.129.138.2 14:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably for the lulz --J0ttem™ 07:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People used it because it was 1/4 activation, and didn't have an aftercast delay. but now that it does, its not going to be used at all really. 71.202.188.133 05:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I prefer this, you can stay out of casting range, making it easier to cap the Ele and most importantly, the mesmer shrines. RadaArashi 17:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Luxon elite armor skill icon


The mask is the same sine no other sin mask has a chin blade on it. The guise is very similar to the Elite luxon one.