Talk:List of Eye of the North skills

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07
I'll try and propagate these all to each skill, and post a Skill Tweak section up to discussion in each talk section, but here is a master list of this weeks changes.

Assassin

 * [[image:Smoke_Powder_Defense.jpg|25px]] Smoke Powder: 30s -> 8s -> Smoke Powder Defense
 * [[image:Way of the Master.jpg|25px]] Way of the Warrior: -> Way of the Master

Dervish

 * : now blocks next attack skill.
 * : 5..20 damage -> 5..10 damage
 * : 4..10s -> 2..6s

Elementalist

 * : Corrected text to 90%
 * : 140 max -> 130 max
 * : 1..3 spells -> 1..4 spells
 * : Reworked skill: For 15 seconds, your next 1..3 spells recharge 25% faster, and projectiles from those spells move 200% faster.
 * : 10[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] -> Change to lightning damage, 5[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]]
 * : 15[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 1[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 5[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 1[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * [[image:Ward of Weakness.jpg|25px]] Ward of Weariness: -> Ward of Weakness

Mesmer

 * : 15[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 2[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] 5..20s -> 10[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 1[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] 4..10s
 * : added chants to interrupt and disable.
 * : 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 8[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 1..4s disable per -> 1..5s disable per
 * : -> Remove the Lose all energy
 * : 5..30 | 25[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 5..20 | 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] | 1..16e -> 15[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] |  8..13e

Monk

 * : 10..60 damage | 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 26..56 damage |  15[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : reduce aoe from in the area, to nearby
 * [[image:Aura of Stability.jpg|25px]] Steadfast Soul: -> Aura of Stability

Necromancer

 * : 30..120 damage | 5..20s -> 30..105 damage |  10s
 * : 5[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 2[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] | 30s |  1..4 regen -> 5[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 2[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] |  10s |  1..8 regen
 * : now only works on melee attack.

Ranger

 * : 12[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 15[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] | 5..15s -> 6[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] |  8..15s

Ritualist

 * : 30[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 30[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 20[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 5..20 -> 5..50

Paragon

 * : 5[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 1[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 10[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] 2[[Image:Tango-activation-darker.png|Activation]] 15[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 8[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : 1..6s -> 3..11s
 * : 10[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]] -> 5[[Image:Tango-energy.png|Energy]]
 * [[image:Maiming Spear.jpg|25px]] Nonsensical Spear: -> Maiming Spear
 * : skill rework: If it hits, you deal +5..20 damage, otherwise you lose 1 condition.

Warrior

 * : the scaling params where wrong fixed those and upped damage to 10..40.
 * : move to strength 1..5s -> 0..5s
 * : 10[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]] -> 15[[Image:Tango-recharge-darker.png|Recharge]]
 * : added "you lose all stances"
 * : 33% move -> 25% move

-If someone wants to organize these better feel free. Just to let ya know my short hand. e=Energy, c=cast time, s= seconds, r=recharge ->= oldnumbers -> new numbers.
 * Ok I got all these changes posted, I still have no idea how to move the icons. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To "move" images currently, you just have to re-upload them under the new name and tag the old ones for deletion, since the current wiki features do not include the ability to move uploaded files. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Have you decided what to do with Keen Chop yet? I've posted a summary of the problems with that skill and potential solutions on the talk page. --Symbol 01:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

You've changed Putrid Bile to 10/1/12. --Ufelder 03:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Putrid Bile has always been 10/1/12 according to it's page history. Wayward
 * Ah, sorry, must be thinking of something else. >< --Ufelder 09:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

First i was verry happy to have a realy effective defence skill against these imba assasins for my monk with "disarm", but now you have ruined it compleetly with putting it into the strengh line :-S fix that back plz
 * Or you could just use Shield Bash ... Shendaar 18:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Please change back all of the skill names (except for Maiming Spear) and Pious Fury. Reaper J 17:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Feedback
Feel free to dump feedback on this page or on each skill page, I'll be looking at it and responding, mainly I just need some more eyes on it as I've been tweaking and staring at these skills for weeks now and the more help I get the more balanced this stuff will be when it goes live. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to let everyone know, I am reading through all these, but as there is a lot of feedback on each skill, it will take me a while, don't expect me to answer right away and please if you have any questions or combos your worried about post them, and I'll try and respond when I can :) ~Izzy @-&#39; 00:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In light of new information, I suggest that both Calculated Risk and Power Lock should have their recharges bumped up before retail. I'm sure I'm overlooking something in here, but everything else looks safe enough as is. -Ensign 10:21, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

so, uh... now that gwen's out, who is completing this list and when? i don't have it yet... stupid pre-ordering made some mistake. i'd still like to know what we get now. - Y0_ich_halt 16:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Cracked_Armor

I think adding a new condition is a nice new feature. But I´m worried about the usage in PvP. It would be a nice addition to spikes against warriors and paragons, but there are only 4 skills that cause Cracked Armor: Well of Ruin: Nearly useless in PvP, because it´s a well. Shrinking Armor: Would be one possibility to cause Cracked Armor, but it has to be removed with Shatter or Drain Delusions. Shell Shock: Probably the best way to cause Cracked Armor. Can be used instead of a Lightning Orb when spiking. Sundering Weapon: With a warrior/ranger/paragon/dervish/assassin no problem, but the used build must have an ritualist.
 * Critical conditions last about 2-3 seconds in PvP most of the time, less than that on a spiked target. Cracked Armor would have to be applied in place of a spike skill, time-wise.  It doesn't give anywhere near its theoretical effectiveness on a spike because of the amount of armor ignoring damage that comes on a spike (Physical +damage, Mesmer damage, Deep Wound).  Plus, the condition is garbage against all of the softies you would otherwise be spiking.  My impression is that the condition is reasonably strong and would be good for the game, if all of the ways to apply it weren't hideously underpowered. -Ensign 21:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

At the moment, Cracked Armor wouldn´t be used often in PvP! More skills, which cause Cracked Armor should be added!

You're forgetting casters with shields and +armour against elements in PvP. Cracked Armor makes sure their AL is reduced back to 60. 220.101.180.184 10:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You don't really want cracked armor to be used in PvP, as it's mostly a spike condition, and you never want spikes to become more powerful. And either way, every single person playing in high-end PvP will be affected by cracked armor just about.  Most of the casters I run will go with 68 armor vs everything and 78 armor with shield swaps.  Especially in caster spikes where they only use one element (airspike, etc), I'm going to have my +10 vs lightning shield on the entire time.  Cracked armor basically makes that useless. --65.40.126.16 14:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Cracked Armor might make it unviable to run any melee except Warriors and Melandru dervishes at all, if they might suddenly lose their armor and get spiked. I think a 50% reduction after reducing the base 60 armor (80 would become 70, 100 would become 80 etc.) or something like that could be a better idea if we want to keep the lighter melee in the game. It would also leave casters (half) the benefits of taking a shield instead of always reducing their armor to flat 60 whatever they do outside armor buffing skills.
 * 84.250.16.99 17:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Cracked Armor can always be cured, just as Deep Wound can be. Deep Wound is, relatively, more powerful than Cracked Armor is, and it's proven fine overall. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 17:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

While cracked armor might be useful in a spike, i see it as more useful as a utility condition: warriors/ dervs/ thumpers/etc can't be as agressive if they aren't any more well protected than a monk. Sword.wind. 20:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Warriors need a way to inflict cracked armour. Penetrating Chop and Blow would be nice skills to be retrofited with this skill. The adrenaline cost is pretty high anyways, with maybe 10% armor penetration and inflicting cracked armour this would be a nice way for warriors to inflict it. Dancing Gnome 04:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Given the selection of professions which are able to inflict Cracked Armor, and the selection of professions which have condition elements to skills dependent on Cracked Armor, I think it's fairly obvious that it's intentional for physical damage dealers not to be able to inflict cracked armor via their primary profession. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 05:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Rangers still have a trap with conditional damage if the target's suffering from CrAr, but no way to cause CrAr themselves... is that simply going to be an exception then? I would personally like to see a few more ways to inflict the condition, if only in weaker forms on some professions (really short durations or drawbacks on the skills). -- Jioruji Derako.> 05:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Edit: Actually, they've got two skills with conditional effects requiring CrAr... I wouldn't mind seeing a pet attack that causes CrAr (forcing you to bring a pet seems like a good draw back in and of itself).


 * Maybe power shot could be made to cause cracked armor. It's a useless skill at the moment anyway.

The skills Weaken armor, and Shadowy burden, will be changed to apply Cracked armor as well, I'm looking at the application of cracked armor, I do think it's balanced assuming it's equal to deepwound and I don't think thats true, so I'll probably reduce the costs of the skills that apply it. ~Izzy @-&#39; 18:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's two more at least, but still leaves Rangers out of luck; considering they've got the most skills requiring CrAr, I think at least an expensive way to cause it would be nice. Something like one of the pet attack causing CrAr, or a skill like Point Blank Shot... Point Blank/Zojun's Shot are already just "bad" versions of Power Shot, simply raise the recharge on them and grant CrAr for a short duration perhaps. Point Blank is already a nifty attack idea, but the energy cost and bonus is just pointless for the effect as it is. -- Jioruji Derako.>  03:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Cracked Armor. I don't know, if it works on shields and bonuses from armors or shields, but if it does, then shield switching will get useless.
 * It will probably be. This game try to be accessible to anyone, so if you're a good player that can switch a shield on a monk during the game for some additional armour you're too good and you need to be nerfed so a 14-year old kid can beat you pressing 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 3 ond infusing when he sees the deep wound... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * This does work on shields. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Very powerful- that's why I like how good the new skills for wars are. Spamming this makes it so wars can't push into enemy lines as aggressively (or thumpers, dervs, paragons)
 * Aside from the old necro and assasin skill will there be any other "old" skills which will be updated to cause cracked armour? Dancing Gnome 13:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Will skils like pentrating blow and attack cause cracked armor?--Killer of Good 03:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think so, but Weaken Armor and Shadowy Burden will. -- Gordon Ecker 03:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm just guessing, tell me if I'm wrong, but Cracked Armor seems to be there to strenghten teamwork and coordination (no class that uses it can apply it). Guild Wars never was a solo game ;) - IH 10:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Seems likely. Also strengthens the importance of a secondary profession, though... Shadowy Burden will probably work well on a Ranger, for the purposes of Body Shot. A snare never hurt anyone either (except for the person being snared of course). -- Jioruji Derako.> 10:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Retrofitting this on Shadowy Burden will change the way the skill works won't it? As Cracked Armour is a condition, once it is placed on the target (the condition) it won't be removed via another hex as a condition is separate from the hex now, whereas before the -20 armour was an effect of the hex. The way the skill currently works is you can place it on but no other hexes or the -20 armour penatly doesn't apply. Dancing Gnome 21:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess it's sort of a buff/nerf to Shadowy Burden... it's letting the -20 armor stick around even if the hex is removed/another hex is added. On the downside, it lets condition removal take off part of the effect, and now the -20 armor will hit a cap of 60 armor. But all in all, I think it's a good change; the ability to hand out a condition at spell range makes Signet of Malice that much better (finally can use it to remove Blind easily). Not to mention, you can use this as an opener for any crazy SoDA combos you've got in mind too. Doesn't really affect the power of the skill, but makes it a lot more useful now... -- Jioruji Derako.> 00:52, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Rebalancing
So now we all know what Izzy meant when he talked about "making hamstring viable". Lots of nice stuff in there. Btw, I dont see any elite skills, are they supposed to be missing, or is simply the "elite" part of some skill descriptions missing? ---Xeeron 22:54, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Disarm is imba. Anthem of Disruption is imba. Anthem of weariness is imba. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:64.91.134.199.

Not to be 100% critical or anything...
I've just gone and spammed some criticism/suggestions for about 10 of the skills in total I think. Not that I mean to be 100% critical with every comment - there are some very interesting/good skills as well - but I wasn't making any comments just to say that, only if I thought I saw problems :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:85.92.179.71.

Pretty Standard Skills
Cracked Armour is a nice add-on, but skills are more a masked rebalance than an addition. Nothing new is added, there is no new game mechanic to be exploited, as far as i see. Not bad, but nothing wonderful. From the pvp side it's a 6/10 for now, let's hope to have some earth-shaking pve skills.


 * I think introducing a new condition is HUGE, I think introducing Hex removal and Condition removal in healing Prayers is even HUGER (more huge) and I like the added utility to smiting prayers.. Now, running heal+smite monks will probably be as appealing as heal+prot monks. This alone, will change a lot in the back lines of PvP. --Karlos 09:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the intention was to shake things up all that much. There are a few skills that have potential for shaking things up a bit - Disarm gives swords a good linebacking tool, Energy Blast could let people get funny with their Ele specs again; the new attack skills might open up some new combos for Assassins while Volley may free up Ranger elites in PvE.  Other skills are playable, but they'll just slot into existing archtypes and not shake things up too much. -Ensign 20:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Elites
Just wondering, are any of these elites, or is this yet to be decided? Because many of these would be incredibly overpowered as non-elites. 220.101.180.184 04:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Isaiah mentioned how GW:EN will have no elites. So no, nothing in that list is an elite skill. Erasculio 04:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess some of the most overpowered will probably be PvE only, the others are likely to be toned down. 220.101.180.184 04:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Legendary Skill Hunters don't lose their title then. Sirocco 04:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * None of those is PvE only. If you think a skill is overpowered, I would suggest saying so (and stating why) on that skill's talk page - Isaiah is reading and replying to them. Erasculio 04:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No elites i don't believe

PvE Only Skills
Do we not yet know what the 40 or 50 PvE only are or am i just looking in the wrong place.Knight of Dark Soul 14:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrong place : D Those skills are the "common" skills that will work for both PvE and PvP. The PvE only skills have not been revealed yet by Arena Net. Erasculio 14:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not yet known. They have not been revealed. They might go here (we are inconsistent about that one: Sunspear rank is at NF, but luxon/kurzick not at F yet). --Xeeron 15:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We haven't released any info on these. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Will heroes be able to use these skills?
Currently the AI still fails at using a lot of the existing skills correctly, so I was wondering if heroes will be able to use all these new skills? --Draikin 17:59, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Great question. This is a systemic problem, so no, not "all" could possibly be used "correctly" by heroes. Even with all people playing GW and commenting here and at gw.gamewikis.org there isn't very good info on which skills heroes fail to use competently (e.g. Dwayna's Sorrow). ANet (and Izzy) have way too much to do as it is. If heroes use skills or a combo too well, they might be able to figure that out of Hero Battle data these days, but for them to deduce some hero skill use is broken from that data (i.e. an absence of use or reasonable results) is just too much to expect. I rather doubt GW2 will be RTS influenced enough for the notion of players scripting or training their heroes' behavior to be considered. I greatly appreciate the GW affordance for me to choose to be asocial and rely on heroes, which, though imperfect, are a lot more fun to diddle with than henchmen (which were already an improvement upon the original EQ style classic MMORPG solo play). Enough of the skills do work competently on heroes that it pays off to experiment extensively with hero builds, so it really is quite viable and fun for anyone willing to put a bit of effort into it. Crystalion 20:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to disagree, there's more than enough feedback on the skills that aren't being used correctly by the AI. We were specifically told to discuss the problems on the forums, and when Andrew Patrick says he writes "a 4-8 page community summary" every week then I can only assume the feedback would have reached the developers. Despite all this there hasn't been a single update to the AI skill usage since Hero Battles was first introduced. That's why I'm concerned that the AI won't be able to use the new skills correctly either and that we're not going to get an update to fix them afterwards. I think it would be better for everyone if at least all these new skills are working correctly from the start. --Draikin 12:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * All of the skills listed here are normal skills everyone will be able to use them, but for the PvE skills they will be treated just like Sunspear, and Lightbringer skills so Heroes will not be able to use them. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wait, so are we not getting 7 hero parties because of technical limitations or because it would kill the PUG? Because if heroes can't use PvE skills, I wouldn't worry too much about killing the PUG...=\ 99.245.143.39 05:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Possible because the limit predates the profession-specific Sunspear and Kurzick / Luxon skills. -- Gordon Ecker 05:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * And so the limit won't be re-evaluated in light of the huge amount of PvE skills [that heroes cannot use] now added to the game? That seems rather odd. o_O? 99.245.143.39 20:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The limit on 3 heroes in PvE was determined before the release of Nightfall and we've (unfortunately) been told that decision is final. Technical limitations were never the problem: when a player leaves your party his heroes will stay behind, basically acting like henches for the other player. The only thing we're asking for is to bring our own heroes in the same way instead of having to use henches when no other players are available to join (when vanquishing areas for example). The majority of people would like that change, especially for Hard Mode, so that we aren't stuck with predefined skill bars on henches anymore. Now we're going to get a lot of new heroes in GW:EN who will simply never see play. It would only make sense that this option would be re-evaluated now that we have Hard Mode and a ton of PvE only skills that heroes can't use... --Draikin 11:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Attack Skills
I have several questions about the attack skills ... -- Gordon Ecker 04:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Are the Axe Mastery, Hammer Mastery, Swordsmanship and Scythe Mastery attack skills axe, hammer, sword and scythe attacks respectively, or can they be used with any weapon like the Scythe Mastery melee attacks?
 * 2) Are the Marksmanship and Spear Mastery attack skills bow and spear attacks respectively?
 * 3) Are the Strength and unlinked Warrior attack skills melee attacks, or are they "universal" attack skills which can be used with any weapon like the old version of Smite?
 * 4) Is Spear Swipe a spear attack, or is it a "universal" attack skill which can be used with any weapon like the old version of Smite?

Sword.wind. 16:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * From what i gather yes.
 * See above.
 * Melee


 * Probably, but after they added the Scythe Mastery melee attacks we can't really be sure. -- Gordon Ecker 06:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * also, does poison tip signet only work for bow attacks? --71.164.131.254 07:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

they'll be changed to axe attack, hammer attack and w/e on release &mdash; Skuld 11:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * When I set up a script to enter all this stuff for the first time I didn't know the wiki had different attack types, so I didn't set them up to properly display the tag, I should have fixed most of these now, if you see any that are unclear feel free to let me know and I can clear them up. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Monk Skills
I really appreciate the new skills, makes every attribute viable. those are great additions. good work! 88.169.112.155 08:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Hex removal in Healing Line?!?
The defense/prot system in organized pvp already overpowers the offense enough. Why let monks have a hex removal that benefits from the healing line? Healer monks can already use nonattribute hex-removals, don't give them a strength in that. It further weakens the effectiveness antiheal midliners like mesmers and necros. --Platinumsmoke 05:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * hexes are imba already. - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 06:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * imho, saying something is "already imbalanced" is not an excuse to not fix things.
 * no point in adding fire to fire --71.164.131.254 07:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * fixing? it isnt broken. And I dont know where you play, but I havent seen a healing monk in ages. 84.136.194.254 13:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * exactly, and these new hex removals in the healing line just don't make sense imo--71.164.131.254 15:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You don't consider the LoD Monk that you see in every build (and who will be running Cure Hex in a month) to be a Healing Monk? -Ensign 20:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I don't. LoD Monks are Prot Monks with a Healing Elite and the occasional Dwayna's Kiss/Infuse.
 * So a character who usually has 3-4 Healing skills (LoD and Dwayna's almost always, plus Signet of Rejuvenation and/or Infuse Health), and will be adding Cure Hex with EotN, isn't a Healing Monk? What is a Healing Monk then, a pile that has no abilities and just a bunch of redundant heals? -Ensign 00:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Something that doesnt spec into Prot.84.136.211.119 10:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Prot is mainly dedicated to Prevent damage. Healing to recover health after the damage has been taken. Removing hexes is not 'protection', it's just 'removing hexes'. Other professions can remove hexes. The skill remove an hex and heal. Smitting has an other hex removal, that deals damage, and Protection's Hex removal turns the hex into defense. It's absolutely logical. MithranArkanere 12:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

No Prot?
I'm disappointed in no protection monk skills. -Dean Harper
 * This is a sneak-peak so more skills would probably will be added --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:85.145.25.54.
 * No, the number of regular skills released with GW:EN has already been specified as 100, and all 100 skills have been added. These are all of the GW:EN skills that are not PvE-only. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 14:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC

Eh, that's a bummer.
 * Yeah Prot got the least new skills from the monk line mainly beacuse there are so many used skills from prot, some attributes could move around so if you feel any of the above skills are pretty in prot you can make that argument, I was really trying to push some more useful skills into healing so it will be a hard argument to win! ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Purifying Veil should really be a prot skill izzy - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 22:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am glad that healing got most of the new skills rather than prot. Prot Skills dominate in the PvP field. They make it impossible for some teams to kill anything in RA/TA. They stop major spikes in less than 1/2 a second. They are abused in farming. I think we have enough useful prot skills as it is. --Shadetz X 10:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Necromancer
Cacophony & Defile Defenses should really be in the Mesmer line of skills since there versions of Backfire and Clumsiness, Mesmers have little to nothing to stop Paragons and have been given mainly just more interrupts.
 * Mesmers don't really punish people for blocking, necros have a few anti block counters so it's not exactly a mesmer thing, I could see that arguement for Cacophony, but normaly the anti chant and shout skills fall into the necro line, and it's not like the necro doesn't punish people for actions. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Atrophy

Atrophy is going to cause Sever problems for Rangers and Eles etc. a good potential solution is to increase the recharge quite considerably. 45 sec recharge, then its fine.
 * Well see I think this skill is odd, but it's meant to be a flexible counter that hurts everyone a little, and a few classes more then others, Mainly good for fighting touchers, I don't see it having a huge effect on Eles, because your not actually the energy rate as much as your just hiding some of their energy, for rangers this is going to hurt the most, and it's meant too. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Defile Defenses

Defile Defenses is way too powerful for a cheap anti-ranger skill. Can only be let in game as an elite if you leave it as is. For 5 energy and a 5 sec recharge the next block causes 126dmg? Compare this to another anti-class skill like Visions of Regret which is an elite and is similar. Only it's anti-warrior since it's adrenal triggered.--Platinumsmoke 05:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is really anti ranger, I may tone this down damage wise, as I'm worried how this conflicts with Parasidic bond. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Visions of Regret can be triggered by Paragons. All professions can "Block". Ward Against Melee, Sliver Armor, Guardian, Aegis, Shield of Deflection, Shield Stance, Whirling Defenses, Shroud of Distress, Distortion, Defensive Anthem, Displacement and Mirage Cloak. Those cover all but Necromancer, and is only a couple of the skills that "Block". Necromancers can still block with Ward Against Melee or a Monk Enchantment or Displacement. <>208.117.81.202 14:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Well of Ruin

Very weak in actual battles as deaths are usually rare, but very strong in VoD with much of corpses and physical damage from Archers. Maybe you should reduce the recharge time, casting time and make it elemental damage instead (at VoD there is still a Bodyguard, but you can avoid this).
 * Fairly true, but GvG isn't everything... it'd be more useful in halls or..ab? (who plays that anymore?)
 * I think it's overpowered. Fragility, barbs, well of ruins and gg. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * Fragility only does damage when a new condition is applied. I think this is the weaker of all the application, but all it's weakness lie in the fact in PvP corpses are hard to come by, this is meant to be more a PvE skill then anything else. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

New orientation? It seems that ALL GW:EN Necro skills are overpowered. PvP will become more and more based on builds balance between teams and less on tactics.--Ttibot 17:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Or you just decide not to see the "bad", balancing, sides of these skills. For example this one is a well spell, targeting depends mostly on enemy/ally position and luck. - IH 18:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Balancing Paragon skills
Why don't you add to any shout or chant "This same skill on any other character in your party will be deactivated for the next 25 seconds"? This would make paragon balancing alot less of a problem, since you couldn't abuse several copies of one skill. You could then even buff some of the dead-nerfed or nearl-dead-nerfed shouts/chants.

Balacing Paragon overall
The main problem with the Paragon is, that he deals warrior-like damage using his spear, without the need to chase targets. He has high AL and the damn best Energy management in all of guildwars. Using all his spare energy, he can even use expensive second class skills (such as mirror of disenchantment). Adding a single paragon to a PvP build will enhance it's pressure and spike capabilites, it's amount of utility and support like crazy. Therefore, I'd like to suggest the following:
 * -"Whenever a Paragon uses a chant or shout, his attack skills will be disabled for 6-2 sconds (depending of his amount of leadership)."
 * -All paragon attack skills will be changed to being adrenaline based.
 * This would effectively unable a paragon to spam chants/shouts while dealing high amount of pressure using his most fearsome attacks and taking part in spikes while enhancing the spike damage using shouts/chants. This would limit the paras energy as well, making it harder to use expensive 2nd class skills.
 * -Necros do a fine job at shutting down shout/chant paragons. And they'll be getting a new spell to make them take SERIOUS damage for shouting. Personally I think Cacophony should read "Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, the next time target foe uses a Shout or Chant, that foe takes 35...119...140 damage." That would put it more on par with most shouts. Paras can blast 4-5 shouts in 5 seconds if built a certain way... and that could mean certain death.  As for para's being as good as a fighter at range... bah fighters have FAR better attack skills compared to spear. While most para spear attacks are energy cost if they have too many they dont have shouts to regain energy then.
 * God, haven't Paras been nerfed enough? No more, please... Arshay Duskbrow 07:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think they finally have been nerfed enough. Realize, however, that they're going to be marginal players in PvE due to design constraints.  Simply put, a lot of Paragon abilities cannot be countered or removed, and that has to be taken into account when discussing the balance of those skills.  However in PvE, removal really isn't all that relevant.  The mobs aren't going to take anything off, so if things are properly balanced for PvP, conditions are absolutely dominant compared to hexes or enchantments, which pale in comparison to the shouts.  Daze and Blind are absolutely dominant in PvE.  Stuff like "Shields Up!" or Defensive Anthem, even though it's solid in PvP, is pretty forgettable in an environment without removal.  You simply cannot make shouts and chants that are competitive with Aegis in PvE without causing serious PvP balance issues. -Ensign 10:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

A different approach, would be to add exhaustion. Worked well on the ritualist. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.177.159.84.

New improved Paragonway in GW:EN?
Im started to get quite worried about paragonway coming back even stronger with the range of new skills in GW:EN. Sundering Weapon+Chest Thumper makes even frontlines vulnerable and armour buffs versus piercing less effective.Anthem of Disruption+Vicious Attack making it hard for monks to use anything to help themselves if they are spiked.Hasty Refrain maintained on 2 monks with 4-5 paragons constantly throwing out "Go for the Eyes!" and "Watch Yourself!" for constant speedboost. Of course the build is less effective on splits and isnt that flexible but facing it on Burning Isle could cause alot of problems. The monk/warriors are notoriously difficult to take out with dual block stances like Soldier's Defense and Disciplined Stance. I think a build could be made up of 4 para, rit, 2 monk and flagger. The rit would be using Sundering Weapon for spiking, and Ghostly Weapon to prevent targets blocking with Aegis + Shield of Deflection + "Shields Up!" and for the monks Vital Weapon which at high communing would make them very hard to spike out at full health. Factor in Hex Breaker on the rit/mes and it would be very hard to counter. The only solution would be to kill the rit since its the only soft target in the build. But a ritualist with 700+ health, monks with Blood is Power from the Paragon/necro, spiking or pressuring the rit to death wouldnt be an easy option either. The rit would be free to spec into restoration spells and equip Tranquil Was Tanasen or Protective Was Kaolai to make itself an even harder target. Or maybe im making a mountain out of a very nasty molehill. Just have to wait and see. --Lorekeeper 22:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The GW:EN e-management skills for mesmers are subpar
1.Waste Not, Want Not :

If you're running 10 in inspiration magic, you gain 6 energy (11-5) by carefully timimg it so that you get the opponent when he is not attacking and not casting spells.

It depends on the state of the target. Another skill that depends on the state of the target for energy gain is signet of lost souls. Signet of lost souls is superior in energy gain, recharge, energy cost, and grabs you some health as well. It also depends on the target being below 50% health which is actually less conditional than a target not doing anything (in PvE). "waste not" is energy gain not energy steal. Makes it inferior to some already mediocre spells like energy tap. It is not an interrupt and does not hamper the target in any way. Compare it with power drain. More energy gain, same energy cost and is an interrupt. Using this skill would take almost as much player skill as timing an interrupt in most situations, so why is the reward lesser ?


 * Maybe it's just me but "Waste not want not" has to be the worst or one of the worst names ever for a spell. Are you guys sure you can't come up with anything better ? :D

2.Signet of recall :

Signet. You lose all Energy. For 10 seconds, you have -4 Energy regeneration. When this effect ends, you gain 13...19...20 Energy.

Is this actually e-management or self e-denial ? Maybe the energy gain is worth it when you use it at energy levels close to 0, but the "waiting for 10 seconds e-denying yourself part" is the bit that blows big time. Your entire team may be getting wiped out in 10 seconds and here you stand e-denying yourself and utterly useless. I understand signets have to be less powerful than spells because they are free but then non-elite signets like signet of lost souls and leech signet do exist. I don't see this complementing a signet build in any way either because it's an e-management signet.

When there are many other effective options for e-management (even GoLE after the e-storage change) these 2 inspiration magic skills have absolutley nothing to offer. Maybe I've missed thinking about some situations where these skills can actually be useful, but so far I cannot think of any.


 * Totally agreed. I like most of the new mesmer skills, but this one is pretty useless because I can't do anything for 10 seconds (which can be a very long time). I mean I gain 13 energy without doing anything in 10 seconds, so I gain 7 energy at best from this signet and that's just not enough. If this signet is supposed to make his way into the game mesmers should gain more energy from it or just have -3 or -2 energy regeneration. -- [[Image:User Nachdenki sig.png]] nachdenki [ user | talk | contribs ] 12:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Low energy set + this skill = maybe useable, would depend on the build. Though, a small buff would still be nice. Banito 06:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

3. Another spell that seems a bit underpowered in comparison with similar spells is calculated risk. When compared to another similar "miss" hexes like reckless haste from curses and blurred vision from water magic, this spell just seems too expensive for affecting a single target. Reckless haste affects multiple targets and has good synergy with SS for the same energy cost. Maybe tweak it a bit to compare with similar hexes ?
 * Virtually every Illusion bar is going to run this thing to put on the pile with the other miss hexes. Oh nose, it's not as good as Blurred Vision in a hex pile, please buff? -Ensign 21:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * May be we might as well nerf calculated risk even more just because blurred vision and reckless haste exist, lol --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:218.102.187.200.


 * Last thing we all needed was another "miss" hex which is almost identical to blurred vision or reckless haste. But since it's been made already I'm sorry ensign, we can only look at it and compare it with other ant-melee hexes. And when we do that, it just isn't worth 15 energy for the effect it has. Our displeaure with a "miss" hex in illusion magic doesn't miraculously make it equal to similar hexes. It is subpar. Making it was a mistake and making it inferior to other near identical hexes is another mistake.


 * The attribute of a skill is relevant to how strong it is. A miss chance hex in a line otherwise light on anti-physical hexes (Illusion) is much more valuable than a miss chance hex in a line already rich in anti-physical hexes (Curses).  When comparing two comparable skills, one can have a weaker raw effect but still be a better skill because of the attribute it it tied to.  Look at DDs and self heals for good examples of how this works. -Ensign 20:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Great work on other mesmer spells like power lock, wandering eye and confusing images. Thanks for reading. Cheers !

Talk:Calculated Risk

50% is FAR to much in a hex build as you can keep it up on a char and have FC for just +10 damage. Maybe +10...13...15 damage instead of a lowering damage level and miss chance down to ~25%.
 * Just look at Reckless haste, a better skill has always been there --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:218.102.185.251.
 * Blurred vision is AOE and 50% miss too. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.

Calculated Risk + Reckless Haste + Blurred Vision
Calculated Risk is here to show that the illusion line is supposed to be worse then the Curse Line?

Reckless Haste Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target foe and all adjacent foes are Hexed with Reckless Haste. While Hexed, they attack 25% faster but have a 15...43...50% chance to miss with attacks.

Calculated Risk Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target foe has a 50% chance to miss with attacks but does +25...13...10 damage.

Blurred Vision Hex Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, target foe and adjacent foes are Hexed with Blurred Vision. While Hexed, those foes have a 50% chance to miss with attacks.

Why would anyone take Calculated Risk over Reckless haste or Blurred Vision for the same cost and nearly the same recharge? Reckless Haste and Blurred Vision has AoE, Reckless Haste have better synergy with SS, Price of Failure, Spirit of Failure and empathy. Blurred Vision has no downside aside from the AoE --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:218.102.185.251.


 * Because they're in diff. lines, having anti-melee in illusion makes it more viable to bring, since illusion is generally caster hate, degen, and slowdown. - 75.75.148.44 17:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't comment if you don't know the game, illusion is mesmer's anti-melee line --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:218.102.187.200.
 * Maybe in PvE, Reckless is better than Calculated, but constant 50% miss is really strong, especially since it has no real drawback. Blurred is slightly superior to Calculated Risk, but then again, illusion hexes can be lenghtened with persistence, so it should be. --Edru viransu 18:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not counting the slowdown skills, nearly a third of the Illusion Magic skills are anti-melee in one way or another. -- Gordon Ecker 05:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * you're trying to compare several different professions. This hex is powerful on a mesmer due to the other things a mesmer has going for it in terms of anti-melee. Also, similarly, it can be stacked with the necro hex reckless haste and price of failure for an effective 100% miss rate triggering price of failure almost every time. This seems to just add to the list of imba skills that can be used for hex-based warrior shutdown.>> On another note, I still think Divert Hexes needs to be buffed to 5 energy. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:144.118.193.56.


 * What's the logic behind this spell being fine BECAUSE it is in illusion magic ?! Would it be underpowered if it belonged to curses ?! This would actually be better if it belonged to curses because of soulreaping and synergy with other hexes (soul barbs, reckless haste etc.) Introducing a crappier version of already existing spells for the same energy cost is no way to nerf anti-melee hexes. This spell just fails. And still can never be comparable to reckless haste or blurred vision even if you spend another 15 energy for mantra of persistence. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Powercozmic.
 * How is Mantra of persistence relevent? if it is, anet should just remove that skill if that's the reason why illusion line is subpar to the curse line --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:218.102.187.200.
 * Curse line is far more powerful against melee than Illusion, and that doesn't prevent necro to have Reckless Haste, a far better version of Calculated Risk. (Trouveur 08:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC))

Talk:Shrinking Armor

Slight Modification of Shrinking Armor
Shrinking Armor Hex Spell. For 5 seconds, target foe suffers from -1...6...8 Health degeneration. When this Hex ends, that foe has Cracked Armor for 5...17...20 seconds.

I would rather anet not force us to use shatter delusion and drain delusion with this skill. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:203.189.173.88.

Talk:Sum of All Fears

cast: 3 recharge: 30  duration: 1...15...20  please

Talk:Signet of Recall

This skill is ok, no reason to buff/nerf. Just for all the people who moan about this one. If you switch to a zero energy set cast it and switch back, you fight with ~15 energy for 10 seconds (you can still use other energy management) and receive 6,666 energy more. Any buff would make it too good.
 * If you do like this, you still suffer the -4 energy degen even if you're at zero. You don't see it but you're goind negative energy. Like all the "loose all energy" skills, it's useless. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * This is is meant to be very nitch, you can use it with "lose all energy" skills and not get penalized, it allows you to hide your energy while you do things like Purge Signet, I don't expect this to be have any main stream use, but mainly for oddball builds. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes ofc, it can be used only for oddball builds - the same way enchanters conundrum, symbols of inspiration, tease etc are used in oddball builds. Problem is even enchanters conundrum and tease which annoy the target and not enjoyed much. The fact is that oddball mesmer builds are synonymous with ineffective builds and actually less fun than running an effective annoyance build. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Powercozmic.
 * Signet of Recall will never be used. If you want to make a skill that hides energy then make one that returns everything you lost after 10 seconds and stick it in no attribute. --Redfeather 00:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Signet of Recall needs to lose one of the conditions, either it loses all energy OR it gives u -4 regen of energy, both is way too much. 82.163.43.17 15:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)Sophitia
 * Yeah I'm gonna remove the Lose all energy from it. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Waste Not, Want Not

4-6 energy for picking a monk or a running warrior or the flagrunner. Too easy imho. Maybe remove the not attacking and add not moving.
 * Pretty good. A spirit of life or shelter is a great target too. requires some skill to be used so it's good it's powerful. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * If you look at this vs Power Drain it's meant to be an easier condition to match but a lot less energy return. It's hard to justify an energy management skill that offers you no other benefits, I'm less worried about this as you trade versatility for energy. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Aneurysm

Already been suggested by arredondo but posting here as well. A change from 1..3..3 to 1..4..5 damage for each point of energy given with a cap of 200 damage would make it worth it for refilling the target's energy bar completely. Maybe drop the recharge a bit as well.

Thanks again for making a really fun and imaginative skill. Possibly the the skill I'd be looking forward to the most. Cheers. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Powercozmic.


 * I am more liking Patccmoi's suggestion to instead raise the damage and cap the energy gain. Currently this skill can only be used effectively very rarely, and it's reward does not feel balanced with it's risk. Patccmoi's suggestion is on the skill's talk page and can only be described as a Reverse Energy Burn ... of sorts. The idea would also make this skill a practical choice for PVE and give e-denial skills in PVE more value. --Redfeather 14:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Earthen Shackles

Totally useless imho. Any water magic hex is better. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * The effect is 90% not sure if the correct description made it in. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Ward of Weakness

Killing all melee damage with wanding. Make it Physical damage please.
 * Anti-zerg ward. 30 recast would be better. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * Anti Zerg ward? You would get into a small area while they can still use shouts? -20 energy from fear me every couple of seconds ftw? Sword.wind. 21:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Glyph of Immolation

Mind Blast and Searing Flames were hated from the moment the first team used them in GvG, no need to buff them. Glyph of Immolation - Seems a little pointless as it causes only 3 secs of burning and yet most fire skills cause burning for longer than that anyways. Would work better as a skill that Extends burning on your next 3 Fire skills (that cause burning )for 3 seconds instead. 82.163.43.17 15:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)Sophitia
 * This skill mainly makes Steam viable. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In general Glyph of Immolation is good with Water and Earth spells, not Fire spells. You have to run some weird specs to really make use of it however. -Ensign 10:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Three points into Fire gets you 2 spells, which isn't bad. The burning duration doesn't scale luckily, so as long as you only need the burning for one spell (such as Steam), it'll still be easy to work with. This might see some use on an Air-spiker as well, as it more or less adds what, thirty-ish damage to the spell? -- Jioruji Derako.> 10:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

No Ele Love?
I don't see much to celebrate in the elementalist line (first e-storage damage spell, whoop dee doo)... But my concern is two skills: Atrophy and Aneurysm. Those seem to hurt eles PROFOUNDLY. You can spike an ele for 250 dmg with aneurysm and you can chop off 30 energy from a typical ele with Atrophy (which makes it superior to like all Mesmer E-Denial skills combined).

At least eles get to laugh really hard at blinded foes slipping all over the place. :/ Eles get no love. :( --Karlos 09:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Since the 30 energy thing is temporary and only lasts ~7 seconds, I am not worried about that one. Aneurysm is evil though. --Xeeron 09:25, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * My point is, it hurts eles a LOT more than anyone else. Monks lost 10-20% of their healing power, Rangers are bothered by the higher cost of skills, necros might not even notice anything missing if nothing dies in those 7 seconds... But eles... eles are crushed.. They lose 39 Energy in PvE... that's a lot. If you were at half energy while this happens to you, you're on the shelf for 7 seconds unable to do anything. Doesn't seem fair to me. --Karlos 09:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll take the Aneurysm hit every single time that I don't die instantly. The energy returned is so valuable in comparison with the damage you'll take.  Unless you're completely rocked and burning down your high set, the damage you'd take from this thing (150-160 if sitting near the bottom of your shield set) is terrible for how conditional it is.  Similarly I don't care about Atrophy at all.  If I happened to be at low energy when this hit me, all it means is that I need to cast in my high set for 6-7 seconds.  If I decide to sit there the entire duration I'm out 5 energy.  Boo hoo.  If my high set was empty it would be a hard off switch, but when your high set is empty you already have problems.  Atrophy really only wrecks Rangers as a class - it's annoying for Assassins and Paragons, and I guess Elementalists who are bad at Guild Wars as well.  I don't expect either to see any serious play. -Ensign 21:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I use burning bow and screaming shot as a ranger these both cost 10 energy and without expertise energy goes down pretty fast so other classes are just as screwed.Knight of Dark Soul 10:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Aneurysm hurts bad if you are an ele at 80+ max energy and aneurysm hits you when your energy levels are close to 0. thats around 240 damage. But also realise that it's not consistent in damage unless you get e-denied a lot. In most other cases, aneurysm is mediocre.


 * You can run Atrophy under MoR though, and then it's scarily close to full-time. If you then use Aneurysm in the gaps they have full energy, it all seems a little bit cruel, and distinctly anti-ele. You ought to also be able to force negative energy on ele's fairly easily, which is pretty brutal.87.194.99.197 14:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Atrophy + Aneurysm is a giant non-combo against Elementalists. Atrophy spam, for the most part, will give an Ele a lower set of zero points.  It's a giant 'who cares' unless you can catch them riding low energy to turn them off for a few seconds.  Aneurysm in combination with that will be identical to one used on any other caster, returning 40ish energy if zeroed for a max damage in the 120s.  Why should anyone care about either? -Ensign 21:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

No Hex Removal for Ritualists?
Again, the main problem with a restoration ritualist has always been a lack of decent hex removal. I think that even though you're not looking at a rit to replace a monk, some adequate hex removal would be nice instead of having to rely on a secondary. Any thoughts on adding more hex removal to rits? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:144.118.193.56.
 * What about an item spell which works sort of like Hex Eater Signet without the energy gain? -- Gordon Ecker 21:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps "as long as you hold Old Guy's ashes, you gain +1 energy renegeration and +10...20 armor for each hex on you. When you drop his ashes, all nearby allies lose 1...2 hexes." That would be an awesome skill... give it a long recharge, and you bring up the struggle of "should I drop it for the removal now, or keep it and use the energy regen to heal?". I'm sure it would do nicely even with a high energy cost, as you can expect the energy regen from a few hexes to refill your energy after a bit. -- Jioruji Derako.> 22:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ritualists are not meant to remove hexes, it's not something the class is able to do. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, Mesmers have hex removal without any healing or protectivi skills, so it's reasonable for Ritualists to have healing and protective skills without hex removal. -- Gordon Ecker 05:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Agony

Not sure if it works with Signet of Ghostly Might. I hope not.
 * This spirit doesn't attack so no, it won't. Anyway nobody would waste an elite for that. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.
 * No it doesn't, it does work with Signet of Binding thou. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Sundering Weapon

Limit it to physical damage or Melandru's can give Cracked Armor, Deep Wound, 10% armor penetration and some extra damage in one hit.
 * Nice for euro or ranger spike. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.140.6.120.

Copy error
a note to any dev reading this, Grapple has "0" for Attribute. very cool of u guys to release this info btw. -- VVong | BA 22:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I wrote a little formula to post these up, so I'm sure there are a handful of errors, just let me know any you see. ~Izzy @-&#39; 22:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * add Distracting Strike and Symbolic Strike to that list. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Wongba.
 * woops, forgot to sign that last. Piercing Trap uses the phrase "Cracked Armored". -- VVong | BA 22:37, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions?
May we add translation suggestion of the skill names, on the talk page? so that we get a smooth tranlation to german? So we avoid odd translations like "incoming=schon unterwegs" ? Krushak 11:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Quote for italian too. Scourge Healing, for instance, is out since 2 years and half and still his italian name it's totally wrong.
 * I don't see any reason why you can't - Talk pages are open for anyone to edit, and there are no artificial restrictions on what can be said on a talk page. You can't force ArenaNet to use your suggestions, but there's no reason you can't make a note of such in the appropriate place. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 17:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Campaign
Note that the campaign variable on all the skills point to the location Eye of the North (tower), not the Campaign. (GW:EN). Backsword 10:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. Maybe we should have Eye of the North be the campaign and the tower be Eye of the North (tower) or Eye of the North (location)? - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 10:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Prophecies,Factions and Nightfall are all redirect pages to their respective campaign. Location is apparently to be used for map zones. Unfortunatly, I don't know if the tower will be it's own mapzone, or a feature of a larger one. Backsword 11:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Moved it to tower for the time being, Eye of the North is pointing to the campaign page now. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 16:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Organize by Attributes?
Should we organize these by attributes or being so few of them should we leave them alone --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:67.191.13.49.


 * I think we should sort them by attribute for consistency. -- Gordon Ecker 08:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Skill Transfer Suggestion
Looking at some of the Mesmer and Necromancer skill I cannot help the feeling that they ended up in the wrong place.

Atrophy and Cacophony are shutdown skills, yet they are given to the Necromancer instead of the Mesmer. Cacophony surely sounds like a Domination Magic skill to me, and Atrophy would fit well in either Domination or Illusion Magic.

Signet of Recall on the other hand would actually make sense on a Necromancer who could still rely on Soul Reaping during the energy degen phase. A second skill that could be moved to the Necromancer would be Sum of All Fears which would fit nicely into Curses. -- Xelonir 11:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't see anything wrong with their placement. Atrophy involves withering away the opponent's body, not something a Mesmer would do. Cacophony is an anti-shout skill, for which Necromancers are already known. Signet of Recall is a variation of the same thing as Mantra of Recall. And Sum of All Fears certainly makes sense for Illusion Magic as well. Capcom 21:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * They could swap the functionalities of Atrophy and Sum of All Fears, both of the skills would be appropriate in either profession. Ineptitude would also make a great name for a Mesmer version of Atrophy, too bad it's already taken. As for Cacophony, it's a punishment skill rather than a hard shutdown skill, and both professions have both anti-caster and anti-physical skills, but Mesmers have a stronger anti-caster focus and Necromancers have a stronger anti-physical focus. -- Gordon Ecker 23:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Please Read This Izzy
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2971970#post2971970

I know this is the GW:EN skills discussion, but there are still skills from nightfall that need to be balanced, all I ask is that you read this and atleast consider what they are saying.--72.84.72.113 03:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd be better off posting this on User talk:Isaiah Cartwright (his talk page). [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 03:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, thanks.--72.84.72.113 03:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Buff Zealous Benediction and Blessed Light
I like the monk skills, but please but some buffs on the existing elites. Zealous Benediction: 10-11 energy returned Blessed Light: 5 energy, 15 recharge --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:91.6.237.253.

Avatars for good lesser Gods
Some non elite avatars for good lesser gods would be nice. For example Avatar of Truth. --Phoenix 13:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a spoiler. Be careful. Alaris 14:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Having more forms could be okay but make them PvE only as they already revealed the 100 skills which aren't pve-only. Making a spoiler-related skills wouldn't be right IMO.--Bane of Worlds 14:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Spoiler-related skills would be ok, as long as it is well-conceiled. So people who know go "ahhh, yes", and people who don't know go "yeah, whatever". Just like watching "I see dead people" a second time. Alaris 15:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It has been discussed a few times. I proposed an "Avatar of Truth" skill (PvE only, your attacks do cold damage, they cannot miss and cannot be blocked), using the skin of her avatar (the one we find at the Chantry of Secrets). The catch is that users who have not finished Nightfall would see that skill as "Avatar of Asdfgh", and they would see a big white block instead of the Avatar's skin. Erasculio 15:51, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Save it for GW2 66.214.173.22 22:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Spoiler filter in game is little to much Biz 13:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

OR the could jsut see her bloody normally? Does anyone complain that they beat nightfall and learned that shiro was bad before beating factions? 71.131.35.123 23:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Dragon Festival already spoiled Nightfall for new Factions players anyway. One of the NPCs talked about the Goddess of Truth. --Heelz 03:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Skill Icons
Are the skill icons allowed to be uploaded on other fansites? ‽-(eronth) I give  up  02:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sepose to be "ok" if its guildwars fan site Biz 13:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You can use everything in the official fansite kit. But if your surce is this wiki you can't. Check the official site and look at the fansite kit page. When the skill icons are there, you can use them. MithranArkanere 12:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * kit is wher? ‽-(eronth)  I give  up  15:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * on the main guildwars site http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansites/kit/

Something amiss
With the formatting of the page perhaps? I have tried several times to get a hard copy of the "printable version" of the page, but all I get is a few blank pages printed out and the Assassin, Rit, paragon and Dervish skills. Salmissra Nyissa 10:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems like the other page sections are a bit too wide to fit in the printable version... which makes no sense, as they're set to add up to 100% width total, no more then that. Not sure how to fix it, but at least the problem's been found now. -- Jioruji Derako.> 10:13, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Still broken. Salmissra Nyissa 18:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Stop crying ^-^
I see many "Ho, this skill is overpowered, it should be nerfed" on skills pages. Please guys stop crying. All GW:EN skills are more powerful than old skills. That's it. It will lead to faster kills in PvP which is a good point because it means better strategic and tactic game (and oblige PvP players to buy EotN^^). If I had one complain it would be about some Necro Hexes wich are over-overpowered but only against specific teams/professions. It may sound good but it risk to lead to a "BuildWar". The game risk to be winned/lost before it start because of team builds balancing. In my mind it should be be a good idea to rebalance thoose skills for a more PvE use : more aoe, less efficiency. Or better to give others classes a self hex removal/the monk a more powerfull one. (To be more general I think skills nerf should better be done giving opportunities of debuff or modifying the way the skills act than killing all its efficiency by raising recharge time/Energy cost.) --Ttibot 19:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yyeah, maybe we could wait till the actual game comes out and then see what skills are abused and after that whine our hearts out about them. Another way to make these "comments imbued with strong constructive critcism" less annoying is to stop reading them. It works but you miss those clever ideas about the skills as well :) - IH 09:47, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * U R SMART GUY!!!! &mdash; Skuld 09:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Non-Elite Moebius Strike?
Highly recommend altering one of the existing attacks to a skill that's similar to a non-elite Moebius Strike. This would at least give some diversity to Assassins in PvE. Simply take out the Skill Recharge and the Bonus damage, and there would be a perfectly viable skill for all kinds of uses. 76.64.191.134 04:57, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Whit out bonus damage and skill recharge it will be... 5 energy offhand with 2 recharge? doing nothing ? Biz 05:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be setting up another dual. [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]]| GD Defender  /  contribs 05:33, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Which, last I checked, was a good thing. =) 76.64.191.134 05:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Wasnt "not being able to use dual attacks until combo is finished, otherwise must bring an elite todo so" a balancing factor when it comes to the power of dual attacks ? Biz 05:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well how many assassins do you see running Moebius Strike in PvP? There aren't very many, and introducing a non-elite that does a worse job (+damage with skills in PvP is key) wouldn't make it overpowered in PvP. One of the reasons why Moebius Strike is powerful is the recharge on targets under 50% health. Without that, there's not much of a chance that the skill will become imbalanced in PvP. In PvE, where there are more elites that are not going to see use (ie, Shattering Assault, Flashing Blades and the like) having this skill allows Assassins to fall away from the MS->DB combo that makes other elites useless. 76.64.191.134 05:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Dual attacks for most part are inherently overpowered, if a non elite comes and makes it possible to spam dual attacks then pvp is the first place you will see it =) Biz 06:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Non-elite Moebius would be what I always wanted. A way to use both Moebius Strike AND Way of the Empty Palm... ya, I'd like to spam Dual Attacks over and over for free. Go Go Golden Phoenix Strike as the opener. -- Jioruji Derako.> 06:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No one would use Way of the Empty Palm anyways. And having this skill exist is no different than what's available for SP sins - dual attack spam abridged by one attack skill. This may or may not be seen in PvP, but it would be unlikely that it would become overpowering. 76.64.191.134 19:16, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * WotEP just got buffed, all it needs now is a repeatable, high-damage, and/or expensive non-elite chain to go with it. -- Jioruji Derako.> 22:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Izzy!
Tomorrow we get to play with the new GW:EN skills for the first time, but I wanted to say thank you for allowing us to add our input here on what changes we'd like to see. I for one really appreciate it regardless of how the final stats end up. --arredondo 19:00, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a lot of feedback during/post weekend so I thought I'd mention... lot's of fun with the new skills so far, thanks--looking forward to it all going live this weekend and trying out the rest of them soon. Crystalion 02:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Skills
Shouldn't the lotus skills be in Crit Strikes due to the fact that they are e-management skills? And does anyone else feel that Golden Lotus should change to an off-hand? ‽-(eronth) I gi  ve up  02:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Why should Assassins be forced to rely on Critical Strikes (and the elite Way of the Empty Palm) for Energy management? -- Gordon Ecker 03:53, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the primary attrib usually does focus more on e-management. (and BLS is already there) ‽-(eronth) I gi  ve up  12:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But having the e-management skills in more than one attribute gives more options for builds. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 12:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, I just find it bad that lotus in dagger line can give good e-manage and have 12dagger 12shadow attrib levels. Could just be me. ‽-(eronth)  I gi  ve up  12:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But if you take just lotus attacks and no crit strikes, you're bound to that 12s recharge. Which is for-freaking-ever if that skill is a required part of your attack chain. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 12:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point, but still. Anyways, Golden Lotus mahaps should be off-hand, cause who really needs a e-manage lead? ‽-(eronth)  I gi  ve up  20:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * For example those who play a build with Temple Strike. IF Golden lotus changed to offhand, what would Lotus Strike be for? Disagreed with the suggestion. - IronHeart 13:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Egain previous to an expensive skill doesnt help. ‽-(eronth) I gi  ve up  22:49, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ranger, Assassin, Paragon and Dervish build diversity are constrained due to each profession's single weapon attribute. I believe that the e-management skills in Beast Mastery, Marksmanship, Dagger Mastery, Deadly Arts, Scythe Mastery and Wind Prayers are intended to compensate for this constraint. -- Gordon Ecker 23:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright? E-gain before the expensive skill still doesn't really help. ‽-(eronth) I gi ve up  23:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Using expensive skills before hand helps though, such as AoD, or a similar spell. I dont see the point of arguing about a skill people dont use anyway.--Atlas Oranos 05:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * K, but he said it fixed the over price of Temple Strike... ‽-(eronth) I gi  ve up  22:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Trust me, it does... - IronHeart 19:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

GW:EN is out
Can the future product things at teh top of the skills dissapear pls? ‽-(eronth) I gi  ve up  21:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Missing PvE skill
I've done all primary and side quests during the Sneak Peek Weekend. Now I'm missing one skill from Deldrimor title track - Snow Storm. The quest which gives it now is already done by me (done it while Sneak Peek)! Any sugestions how to solve this problem? Fett 00:01, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The only way to get it by completing The Big Unfriendly Jotun, which you have already completed, this is a known bug. It's a long weekend and the first weekend after release, so you may have to wait until some time next week. -- Gordon Ecker 05:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Same with Light of Deldrimor Biz 09:13, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Prophecies Elites in GWEN?
If I capture a Prophecies elite in GWEN, can I use it if I don't have Prophecies? Or will there be a padlock over it?
 * Locked. --Ckal Ktak 08:03, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to reverse the question: If I have Prophecies and GW:EN, I should have access to all gwen skills. Meaning I should be able to equip Anton with all of the gwen assassin skills from any hero skill trainer. Turns out I can't. Why?Ys Mist 01:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC)