ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Dervish/Overpowered scythe builds: R/D or A/D

Bad logic: "lets buff other weapons to the same level/above a broken build so said underused weapons get moar usage!" Yeah, okay... -- NUKLEAR   IIV  14:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Buff dagger attacks.. Prokiller88 01:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Completely other issue, unrelated. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  16:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The Scythe is a very powerful weapon, and just because rangers/assassins can use it. It does not need to get nerfed. Thats like nerfing the Bow because of A/R with disrupting accuracy. Prokiller88 21:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Scythes aren't exactly on the weak side on dervish. In fact, I'd say they are quite powerful. not really broken, but QUITE powerful. A nerf to scythe damage won't be a big deal for dervishes. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * no way, with all the nerfs too the survivability of the dervish, its only real hope is to kill quick, and with a slow waepon you need high dmg to do that Icewind 22:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, so we should've kept splinter weapon and signet of ghostly might cause the rest of the Rt skills sucked? think again, the idea is to provide balance, not promote fan service classes. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nerf the skills that create R/D and A/D, let dervs keep their scythes. I wonder why people want all melee other than wars era... I mean nerfed.  Let the dervs keep their power, just keep it away from other classes, much like shadowsteps should be exclusive to sins.  --Kalas Silvern 19:19, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Think again. Warriors need nerfs too. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 16:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Armond, that's a question of how the devs want the game to function. As long as melee is considered the baseline, wars will not get nerfed. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  21:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Melee is being bad for the game. If the devs want to keep the blockweb up, that's fine - not like it matters to me. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 01:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait. Melee is BAD for the game?  So stall based low damage stall fests are good for it?  If anything, most melee (not R/D or A/D, those are TOO powerful) needs to be buffed.  At the very least, Dervishes and Assassins need bar compression to bring them on par with warriors, who have a spike which takes 4-6 skills on any other proffession in 2-3.  dervs- Wearying, Mystic, Eremites (or Wearying, Crippling Victory, Chilling Victory with IAS).  Sins- Shadowstep/hex or both, 4-5 attack skills, IAS.  Wars- 2 attacks + IAS stance + cancel stance.  Oh look, they are just as good at damage with fewer attack skills, and they get an IAS and IMS/Defensive stance on top of it!.  Spell damage, in many cases (NOT SF or SH) could probably use a buff to make it viable.  Melee damage = necessary to prevent stalling from being stronger than it already is.  Blockweb = bad for game, since it just prolongs all matches and contributes to a completely stagnant metagame.  --Kalas Silvern 09:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Would agree with a Scythe being less effective for other classes. Advice not to reduce effectiveness for Dervish. It is not like Dervishes can get in any area with other classes (Teamplay/Pug). Like sinns & mesmers a bit outcasted. --  Silverleaf  [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|User_talk:Silverleaf]] 21:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Scythes. Are. Broken.
 * I can prove it: Make a pvp character (any profession), press J, make a Sundering PvP Scythe. Then press K, put Pious Assault in slot 1 and Chilling Victory in slot 2, then 12 points in Scythe Mastery.  Then map to Great Temple of Balthazar and walk through the "Isle of the Nameless" warp.  Go to the farthest thing of rings with dummies on them.  Click on the one named "Practice Target."  Now press skill 1, then skill 2.
 * Now try to match that damage with any other build in that short time. ~Shard (talk) 03:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Out of curiousity, I tried running my Ranger PvP character against the Master of Damage with several builds, including a Scythe. R/D, including Pious Assault, with Apply Poison, sustains about 33 DPS over a minute and a half. R/W with a sword and the absolute earliest Prophecies skills you can get with a Warrior, also with Apply Poison, sustains about... 33 DPS over a minute and a half. Both got "kills" at 15 seconds. Best DPS spike? With the Warrior Skills, not the Dervish ones, at 56 vs 44. And for comparison, an Assassin primary with starter-level skills did about 30 dps sustained, but spiked at 62.--Xylia 05:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget 15^50 obv. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 03:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That critical hit suggestion might actually make the difference between minimum and maximum damage matter again, instead of just the maximum. 145.94.74.23 09:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could spread the fuck out and not get 3 people hit by one attack, its ajdacent, not that hard to get away from someone at at least adjacent area, imo nerf critical strikes to only work on dagger attacks, and nerf expertise to only work on ranger attacks. oh look problem solved because now there will be no more cross class gimmicks running around making people bitch. You know that effectivly kills every imba build in HA because now they wont have any energy and people might actually have to play their class! GENIUS! Oh and make assassins remedy only work on dagger attacks, BRILLIANT!--Shadowsin 19:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Cough* its kinda hard to spread out in a map such as HA maps where you cant take a single step without landing on someones rare. which is lövley for all these R/D and A/D and Whateverthatdoesinstantkill/D83.249.119.162 13:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

^^^^^^ That was me bwt ô.ôOni 16:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The reason why rangers use Scythe Attacks because bows are terrible at doing damage and one guardian instantly ruins the burning arrow build.William Wallace 08:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No. R/Ds are used because they deal extreme damage. It has nothing to do with rangersability to deal dps. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Burning arrow is not bad and actually slightly overpowered(but not enough to deserve the nerf bat). However, people just run sway because scythes are broken and overpowered. I keep telling people to nerf the scythe and they keep QQing at Anet to nerf escape instead.
 * Oh, and bow damage sucks. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.230.18 (talk).
 * Unfortunately Anet's so stupid that Escape is probably getting the nerf bat in the same way WoTA got the nerf bat. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:96.233.8.53 (talk).
 * no realy spread the frack out yeah, HA is a bit cramped but to say scythes are op cause the can hit multiple targets is lame. damn near every Fire skill hits multiple targets. is fire overpowered. hell they can nuke you from across the room you wouldn't even know it till you take the first hit. but here we have a guy with a big arse scythe that ran from way over there to right in your face. and u just sat there and let em do it? sure sins can shadow step but all shasdow steps have after cast. bloody move! and did someone say Melee is ruining this game? are you frikin serious? go play a frikin TCG or final fantasy if u want "hey lets take turns hitting each other" type game. Frikin EVERY spellcastor class has SEVERAL melee counters, just because you refuse to use them cause its not the meta does not make melee overpowered. that makes you a fool. have you any idea how long guild battles would take w/o melee classes omg. on the other had melee classes have very few effective counters to castor (xcept for the sin). all they got is a hope "i hope this guy doesnt look at his compass, i hope he doesnt run, and if he does i hope he doesnt have a run skill, i hope he doesnt use one of the billions of blinds and general attacker shut down skills availiable to him, i hope he doesn't activate some sort of block skill, i hope this guy is a complete noob that is completely ill prepared to do anything other than press "C" and "1-8" on some poor guy who barely realizes wich of the 8 dudes around me just casted some bs(no not blind surge :] ) on me from across the room." and yes Escape is op, as much as i'd hate to say it, it is. its a defencive skill designed to help a ranger ESCAPE from danger the fact that it can be used while still pressing an assault is an obvious miss use of the skill. anybody who disagrees with me on that doesnt know the definition of the word escape. and as for A/Ds, actually lets back up. Sins are a melee class that are vulnerable to BOTH melee and castor Counters. As are dervishes, so be it A/D or D/A if u cant hinder them in some way shape or form your build probably sucks anyway. which would xplain how they killed you so easly.99.204.70.116 06:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Expertise (Fast Casting) is stupid
I get +1 cool points for bringing an expertise issue to the Dervish balance page.

Expertise, as most of you already know, is stupid, just like Fast Casting. I didn't say it's bad, I didn't say it's boring, I said it's stupid. Why?

To compensate for how Expertise (Fast Casting) affects the costs (cast times) of Ranger (mesmer) skills, the good Arenanet Balance Company upped the energy cost (cast times) of all Ranger (mesmer) skills so that playing a Ranger (mesmer) would feel exactly the same as playing a Warrior (elementalist), minus the extra attack range (lolshutdown skillz). This makes Expertise (Fast Casting) a requirement to play the class instead of a bonus, as it is meant to be.

However, because secondary professions are allowed, Rangers (mesmers) can bypass their "requirement" and negate the higher energy cost (cast time) of skills on their bar...by not using them! Rangers (mesmers) who use non-ranger attack skills, touch skills, stances, etc (non-mesmer spells and signets) gain all the benefit of (insert broken profession here) with the added brokenness of not needing energy (laughing at interrupts). I call this dilemma "Primary Attribute Compensations."

Other classes have it to, but it's less obvious. Assassins have such shitty weapons because they count on critstrikes to make DPS something monks actually have to be awake to handle. Paragons' shouts and chants cost too much for any other profession to use.

How to fix this problem: Change primary attributes so that they are a bonus instead of a requirement to play that profession. Expertise could be faster skill nonspell activation, mesmer could be faster spell/signet activation, but lower the cast times of mesmer skills. Critstrikes could add damage to criical hits instead of increasing the chance. These ideas all suck (except the critstrikes one), but you get the idea.

In conclusion, the end. ~Shard (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Reminds me a lot of my General Balancing Guidelines. I completely agree that primary attributes should be a bonus for a profession, not a punishment to that profession.
 * Rangers get punished for Expertise with ridiculously over-costed and undereffective bow attacks.
 * Monk get punished for Divine Favor with underpowered crap like Orison of Healing.
 * Elementalists get punished for Energy Storage with Exhaustion and a lot of 25 energy skills.
 * Mesmers get punished for fast casting with a lot of 3s cast time skills.
 * Necros get punished for their primary attribute with a lot of 10 and 15 energy skills.
 * Ninjas get punished for critical strikes with daggers being the worst weapon statwise(less damage than a wand).
 * Paragons get punished for Leadership with higher costs of shouts and chants.
 * 96.233.0.7 11:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I like this idea very much, but it won't of course be implemented in GW. Maybe in GW2. HerrKaputt 10:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Is good (obvious) plan, but all the primary attributes would have to be nerfed. A "bonus" to playing a ranger is that everything costs 62% (or whatever) less energy! Yeah, that's balanced. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 18:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

make it so that sins are slower or some shit when wielding scythes. It doesn't even look natural for them to hold it :/. It would make sense and solve the problem. -- Readem 16:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Armond, I actually have a completely different function for expertise on my nerf list, which I think would have worked in GW1.~Shard (talk) 22:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Fix this imba piece of shit
Ok izzy, we get it. You like it when people are forced to play a certain build/equipment because everything else is weak. To be honest, I don't think anyone with a brain cares. Can you please fix this imba piece of shit before 10 more guilds cheat their way to gold capes? ~Shard  02:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Gold capes don't mean anything anymore since there are about 100 broken skills and everything else is covered in cobwebs and left to rot until Guild Wars 2. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.18.132 (talk).

Shard's Issue - 25 May 2008

 * Comment (anonymous)
 * Every thing you said, excluding the critical hits, sounds just like and Eles Fire AoE spells. Almost no one talks about that, so give it up. The problem isnt with the scythe, but with the Rangers and Assassins who use them. My soulton is to make Ranger's expertise attribute olny apply to ranger skills, and Assassin's critical strikes attribute olny effect daggers. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:173.88.204.199 (talk).


 * Fix some strange crit% boost, renewing 75% blocking and overpowered brainless energy management first will be fine, much scythe skills being nerfed due to expertise.--紅茶喵._. 04:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)