Guild Wars Wiki talk:Projects/Interactive Maps

Not to be a party pooper, but...
How do I get to the old region maps? I understand and appreciate the idea behind the interactive maps, but sometimes (frequently, lately) I don't _want_ to see the interactive version. For instance, I've been running my alts through the campaigns lately. I haven't been playing all that long, so I still don't know my way around very well in a lot of places (the southern shiverpeaks and maguuma, for example). When I'm trying to run a toon around to get all the outposts, I find it incredibly annoying to have to go back and forth between explorable area maps because there's a huge link box blocking a critical part of my path. A good example is going from drok's to deldrimor war camp, passing through camp rankor. On my first toon, I did this by looking at a single region map. Now on my newer toons, I have to go area by area, occasionally needing to switch back and forth. In this type of situation, it would be nice to have the old maps back so I could see all the areas on one image. Are those maps still around? If not, can we bring them back and maybe put a link to the non-interactive version on each interactive map's page? It would make getting from a to b a lot easier when you don't need to know everything wiki knows about everything in between... 216.229.78.186 08:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * There is a link to the non-interactive (underneath the new maps). Also: I think you are asking for regional maps, which are linked from the regions (not the explorables).

, which is very easy to do (again, with the hide/show tags). ~Farlo Talk 18:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * However, I think the current caption is somewhat confusing:
 * "see also: Image on the world map and map with collector location)".
 * What about instead,
 * "Non-interactive maps: Plain or With Collectors"
 * — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not even too sure what you're talking about, but maybe that's me... As far as stuff blocking your view, that's what the controls under the map are for, they turn all the labels on and off.  Under all the labels, the image used as the map is actually the "clean" map that used to be on the article itself.  It does suck with the Shiverpeaks maps that the text has the backgrounds, but otherwise no text will show well on the white background.  In your example of going from Drok's to the War Camp, see Southern Shiverpeaks/Map and you can turn off the labels to have a clear view.
 * I believe all the region (region as in geographical region e.g. Ascalon, Kryta, Jade Sea, etc.) maps have links under the interactive map image to the old game screenshots if really do prefer those, but be wary on the individual explorable area pages and check where you're going, (most) of those are still waiting to be made. Disregard that, and the removal of the links was discussed here, stating "There's no need - no matter how the interactive map is done - to link to the clean map, as the interactive maps can be made clean. Likewise, there's no need for the labelled maps to even exist as the interactive maps are labelled"
 * Can we please keep the links to the old maps? Right now, I'm digging through the article/file histories to use them (I find the labels on the interactive maps jarring, so I'd much rather use the old ones). Plactus 16:38, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I think it might be a reasonable compromise to include two map images on the articles:
 * Interactive map
 * Non-interactive maps
 * The second would be the plain version, but link to another subpage that has all the original maps (and nothing else). This gives people a choice on the main page and avoids cluttering with too many maps. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, as stated above, we originally did have links to the old images, but Konig, Alex, and I thought it was somewhat pointless since the interactive one can do any combination. If you want to make another sub-page for every zone with the old images, I guess we could do that, but I've also been over-writing "zone name map.jpg" with a screen capture of the interactive map, so that makes a lot more hassle, unless we just show the older versions on the non-interactive subpage.


 * Either way, I don't really care, but at least for me, making the maps and getting them linked takes precedent. If there's more support than the one or two people who have commented so far (By the way thank you guys for taking the time to contribute and voice your opinions), I guess I'll start including both, but (and I know neither sample is a good evaluation of the community as a whole) I've gotten at least 15-20 comments on my guild forums and in-game of people saying they're really good and help a lot.


 * Possibly after WoC is out and after the surge of debate and content we'll have to add is over, one thing I'd like to do is put up a topic on the Community Portal or wherever will get the most attention brought to it so there can be a larger discussion about what to do, because frankly, it's 90% me, TEF, Alex, Konig, and Mora trying to figure this out for the entire wiki. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 20:59, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * So how about for now: leave current articles as they are. For new articles, (if necessary) move the current map to a subpage, then create a new page for the new maps.


 * It might be that a better solution will be getting someone to re-tweak the formatting on the labels (which, given how the maps are setup, is relatively simple to do — in fact, we designed them so that we could fix the formatting without having to re-edit substantially). — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 21:38, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, sounds good for now. For the non-interactive map pages, should we just slap the related maps up and leave it at that? ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 22:15, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * If it's just a matter of time and work, then I would be willing and able to create new pages for the old maps and links to them. Here's a mockup I made for Ascalon, with a link inserted as here. Plactus 23:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what we had before, but just linked straight to the images, not another sub-page. If we're just going to do links, not other maps, I suggest just doing it the way we had before. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 00:45, 7 July 2011 (UTC)


 * (apparent edit-conflict) That looks okay to me. If others agree, I'd recommend updating 2-3 articles, then posting another note on this talk (at the bottom) to check for any feedback. (Easier to find out early if something needs adjustment.) (I still prefer referring to these as non-interactive maps, but have no objection to calling them, other maps.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 00:45, 7 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't remember exactly what it was early on during the project, but I think Plactus is trying to say: let's offer two choices (not several) on the main article: a link to the interactive map (which functions as several) or a link to all the other (non-interactive) maps; this gives people an easy choice and avoids cluttering the page and gives everyone what they want via only a single click. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 00:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This is true, and honestly, I could care less, but if you want the non-interactive maps, you'll have to click twice! :O ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 01:00, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Kudos!
Now that these maps are starting to appear in greater frequency:
 * I get really annoyed when I encounter an article without them because...
 * I can't remember how we lived without them for so long.

Hats off to the heavyweight contributors: C. Alex, Farlo, and Mora! — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:48, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the support, especially the dynamic label template! Hopefully we can make some serious headway here. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 23:59, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Dungeon maps
Dungeon (and dungeon quest walkthrough) maps will present some interesting challenges:
 * 1) We have some really bad maps (some look more like a Random Walk VQ rather than walkthrough).
 * 2) The locations of many LoDs are incorrect (everything from: they never appear in that location through the locus of possible locations is large than the map suggests).
 * 3) We have the usual problem of whether to separate the walkthrough dots from other features.
 * 4) In some maps, locations of certain features varies between NM and HM (e.g. the usable bridge in Darkrime Delves).
 * 5) We could use some better icons for certain features.

Dungeons can also be more annoying for testing locations, because you can't repeat them as easily as explorable areas.

For those doing the bulk of the work adding these maps (i.e. Mora, Farlo, Alex), what types of data/notes/testing would you like to be done before you get to this set? (I generally prefer dungeoneering to farming and I try to remember my LoDs, so I might be able to start collecting data now.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Very nice consideration, and I'll probably be doing some of this as well, mostly researching/fixing boss locations. As for your list:
 * I'd like to get fresh (probably Texmod rips) clean maps for all of the dungeons and levels and photoshop paths and such on like I do for my IGMM. I'll do a lot of this, so not a big issue for you.
 * The LoD placements and lists would be a huge help, and if you're willing, screenshots are always helpful in more hidden locations
 * If we really wanted, I could try my hand at making the path another "label" that can be shown/hidden. Shouldn't be that hard, just another image to upload to the wiki.
 * I guess we can add a HM label, or just note it in the hide/show location like the Kryta/Map has for WiK/HotN, of course depending on what's different.
 * For icons, I'd like to use the in-game icons as much as possible, and I'll rip those that I can. (Maybe an A-Net would feel gracious enough to get them officially for us?) If it's something without an icon, I guess we find/make some Tango style icons.


 * Thanks again for your help! If you want to contribute for Explorable Areas and Missions before we get to dungeons, that'd be really helpful too ;) ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 23:59, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe I'll print out some dungeon maps and record LoD bursts (sometimes, it's a pain, as in Bogroots, when you are typically under attack while pinging).


 * I was thinking that one way of displaying/hiding the path is by having two maps, each with their own set of labels. You could still use show/hide, but instead of showing/hiding, it would actually load the other map (not as elegant, but possibly a lot easier).


 * A lot of icons can be pulled from existing sources (boss, key, etc all appear after displaying the dungeon map in-game), but there aren't any ANet icons for LoDs or what you find at them (Switches, secret door, treasure, ally). It's possible that dungeon icons should be small/tiny, since the maps themselves don't have a lot of room for text and/or large icons. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 00:37, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The path is easy. Make it the "bottom" (very first) label, have it not link, and it's just a path over transparency.  I just need a screenshot (one of the ones in the file history should do) and about 15 mins in Photoshop.
 * We can use [[Media:Collector chest.jpg]] once some transparency is applied for the chest for treasure, but I'm not sure about the Dwarven Ghost, perhaps make a stupid icon like this? ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 02:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Collector icons
I'd like to catch this before we have to redo all the maps, and I was wondering everyone's thoughts on using the default collector icon vs. the icon of whatever that collector collects. I think it might be worthwhile to make them more varied and use the collectable's icon. Thoughts? ~Farlo Talk 04:42, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Variety is great...and the specific icon will be worth 10 words (Fritz, collects Quatloos) if not 1000. It's also more work than re-using the same icon. You could decide to split the project: use the plain icon now...and have a follow-up (which might never complete) to replace 'em with specific icons (and reduce some text). — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 05:44, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's that big of a deal to pop in the right icons when they're being made, especially when you have tabs. I'll probably keep the label saying the item and still have the icon link to the collector.  Unless anyone disagrees (I know it hasn't been that long, but revert if you truly care), I'll start redoing them when I finish Ascalon. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 05:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I kinda liked the [[File:Collector icon.png]], it's kinda hard to see the trophy icons if they kinda match with the background map image. For example, Worn Belt.png in Lakeside_County/Map. Darthlight  18:46, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I have noticed that. Where it does work, I like it a lot better though.  Perhaps we can make a better icon for some of the ones that blend in well.  ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 19:19, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

War in Kryta maps
Coming up on Kryta maps, and in preparation for Winds of Change in Cantha, how do we want to separate the the Beyond version of maps from the standard maps? I think we should have them both link to the same Zone Name/Map, and just have different headings like the Kryta/Map page does. So for Cursed Lands, it'd link to the map subpage as usual, but on Cursed Lands (War in Kryta), have the image link back to the normal map.

I can see this being a problem for some though, and it might be confusing switching between the WiK version and the normal version. If they're kept separate pages, I guess we just put a disambiguation tag at the top. Suggestions or thoughts? ~Farlo Talk 19:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer each on the same page. Each could be sub-sections under Bosses. And on a side note, shouldn't the Bosses section be hidden by default to show a clean(er) map, and only show the extra info when wanted? • • • Mora   19:55, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think there was ever really discussion about what should be shown by default, but bosses seem pretty important to me. Once more are completed, we can probably get more widespread responses on what should be shown and whatnot.


 * As for your example, I don't think we should have sub-headings, makes it a bit more confusing, I really like how I did Kryta, haha. Until we get more feedback, let's hold off on the Beyond versions of the maps. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 20:08, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

GwCamUnlocker for towns and smaller areas
I just found these, and after oogling at them for a couple minutes, I realized the CamUnlocker has some potential to help us out if the maps (especially in outposts) become to small. [[Media:User Farlo CamUnlocker.jpg|This]] is a top-down image of Temple of Ages facing due North, and with a high resolution (1080 Ftw!), we get a decent image on which to place labels and such. Thought I'd leave this here until we got to that point in the project.

Also, I had to un-indent your table Mora, it did funky things with this section. ~Farlo Talk 06:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I just tried the CamUnlocker and its good, but I'm wondering if someone with texmod abilities could remove the cloud as you zoom out? --[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 11:45, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm playing with texmod - never actually made anything with it before, and I think i've found the cloud textures.. we'll see what happens. --[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 12:40, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Poke. [[Image:User Anvil_God_AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvi God  zzz...  12:41, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * When I blank out the "cloud" textures I've extracted, I can get the sky white when viewed at ground level, but when I tried using Red/orange/blue as the texture colours, nothing changed. curious but I'll try again later. should I blank/black out/white out the texture? :/ [[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 13:32, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * [[Media:User Chieftain Alex CamUnlocker.jpg|What happened with the texmod stuff.]] Previously mine was very pale, but I've set the sky to black, and the particles to a dark green..--[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 16:20, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a bit touchie. Turning off Post-Processing Effects clears up a lot of the "atmosphere" as well.  I'll mess around with it too and see if I can't make the clouds and other stuff a bit more clear.  If you have Photoshop, the TGAs extracted from Texmod use black in the alpha channel to represent clear, so just repaint the image all black (in the alpha channel), and it should turn that object invisible.  ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 16:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Poke - What are the advantages of having an interactive map? [[Image:User Anvil_God_AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvi God  zzz...  19:13, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Non-interactive maps
As discussed above, I've added links to the non-interactive maps of Ascalon, Green Hills County, and Old Ascalon, and am now looking for feedback and suggestions for improvement before I go any farther. For images that were overwritten by screen captures of the interactive maps, I've uploaded old versions of the images under new names. Ascalon and Old Ascalon got subpages for non-interactive maps, but Green Hills County, which only had a single map, just got a link to the map. Plactus 23:19, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Those look pretty good, and if you want to apply that theme to the rest, I'll follow it with the new pages. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 00:21, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't mind doing them, if you'd rather focus on just getting the interactive maps made and linked. I have plenty of downtime at work for doing stuff like this.
 * In any case, I've now done all the Prophecies regions. Plactus 23:13, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, that's cool. Glad to have the man power. Once I get some free time, I'll hopefully get cracking on Cantha, I'm seriously tired of Tyria, especially Maguuma/Kryta. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 01:50, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Monastery Overlook map
While it isn't a very "looked at" page, and I can't imagine there being too much traffic or interest in the zone normally, I think it should be included because not only is it a tutorial zone (so possibly helpful for newbies), but the boardwalk games create huge influxes of players into that area, and it might be worth having a map just to be safe/comprehensive. That said, I think we should have one map (and this formatting can apply for towns in the future as well), and just have tabs with the holiday information hidden by default. This can be repeated for however many events may change a town (Kryta/Map example again) and reduces the clutter of having multiple pages that are similarly named or may confuse people, which is always bad. ~Farlo Talk 00:09, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok thats fine [ I thought perhaps could leave Monastery overlook til we think of a method for outposts], I'm thinking Linnok courtyard is too small to get its own map .. and can we omit it? --[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 00:15, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Linnok Courtyard we definitely can omit, and yeah, don't even worry until we get to that. As a matter of fact, forget the noob intro explorable, I forgot that the festivities technically occur in the town.  I don't see a need for that place by itself, haha. ~FarloUser Farlo Triad.png Talk 03:54, 15 July 2011 (UTC)