Talk:Knock down

Just started it, could use some tactics, also I know this is used in PVE, so we could either branch it or split the discussion. Arcad1a 10:20, 11 February 2007 (PST)
 * Why does "knock down" get precedence over "knockdown"? A skill causes knockdown, a person is knocked down, some skills knock down opponents. Personally I prefer the noun. Savio 12:26, 11 February 2007 (PST)
 * imo it should be Knockdown --FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.gif]] 12:30, 11 February 2007 (PST)
 * I agree, but I think the correct terminology is Knock down in terms of how Guild Wars refers to it. Please edit it if you've found otherwise; I'm just following orders! ;)
 * I just went with what the skill descriptions had, and they had the space between. Arcad1a 14:30, 11 February 2007 (PST)
 * Arcad1a is correct. Knock down is as it appears in skill descriptions.  Many of the concepts in PvP tactics are of use in PvE.  I suspect/hope links from the PvE side will develop over time.--Drekmonger 15:41, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Skills not affected?
I was going to edit this in but I'm not completely sure if it's true - you can use plain skills (like Ritual Lord) while knocked down, right? skaspaakssa :) 23:38, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
 * As far as I am aware, skils which have zero activation time can still be activated while knocked down; Ritual Lord should fall into this category. [[Image:User Fox.jpg]] Fox (talk|contribs) 04:41, 5 April 2007 (EDT)
 * RaO can't be IIRC, nor can Ritual Lord ~Skuld 05:39, 5 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Shouts and stances can be activated at any time. I just tested Ritual Lord, it can be activated in the middle of a knockdown. I think that all skills without subtypes or activation times can be activated at any time. Other skills without activation times, such as Dolyak Signet, cannot be activated while knocked down, or in the middle of an action. -- Gordon Ecker 02:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the activation time article shouts, chants and skills without subtypes can be activated at any time, while other instant-activation skills cannot. -- Gordon Ecker 02:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Duration
I thought the knockdown time was always 2 seconds unless otherwise specified. -- Gordon Ecker 02:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, there's no such thing as a 1 s KD. I will change it. ~Seef II &lt;☎&gt; 06:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Noticed that Gust has a base of 3 sec on its knockdown. Does anyone know if this can be extended by Stonefist? 64.32.249.154 14:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * read the enhancements section of the article. -- VVong | BA 14:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Dooh!!! (Homer Simpson moment) Thanks for pointing that out... 64.32.249.154 14:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Skills that get better with Knockdown
Why don't we have that type of section. Conditions have it.-- §  Eloc   §  23:21, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added the ones I could remember off the top of my head. Feel free to help expand it. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 14:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

untidy?
is it me or do the long lists in this article look a bit untidy... iirc, the rest of this wiki lists umm just skills that affect whatever the article is (in this case KDs), so i suggest making a list skills that KD, and linking to it? Twiggie 17:34, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Knockdown Twice?
What happens if you knock something down twice? (Devastating Hammer+Heavy Blow)
 * 2nd knockdown will do nothing if target is still knocked down/getting up from previous knockdown. Its a waste. -R---96.225.144.48 02:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, have to wait until they're back up. If you do it right you can chain KDs though.  Thunderclap used to allow perfect KD chains, you would even interrupt 1/4 cast skills. --24.225.87.87 02:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Creatures
Can someone please compile a list of all the creatures, by species, that cannot be knocked down? This would be extremely useful when forming area-specific builds. A few that I know I could add to the list are: Any others? --ChristopherRodrigues 05:57, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Jotun/Ettins/Yeti
 * Hydra
 * Worms/Wurms
 * Dragons
 * Griffon?
 * Stone Guardians?
 * Giants


 * it's set per creature, in the shape of an antiKD skill. Backsword 06:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * also, some giants may be knocked down, their animation is being frozen in a pose for the duration of the knock down. The Boz 13:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Knock-down time
There is a small difference between Earthbind and a Stonefist insigna. Insignas give you a longer KD. The difference is like .001 second, but there is a difference. Try using Meteor shower on a warrior, and on a ritualist with earthbind. With the warrior, targets only get knocked down 2 times (the second meteor comes when target is still KD-ed), but Earthbind will give your target 3 perfect knockdowns without the time to either cast a 1/8 second casting time spell (mesmer with FC + 1/4 spell). I am not sure target can use skills that required not te be knockeddown between the two knockdowns of the Rit.145.33.45.24 14:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Added Enraged Smash
Yeah, added it since I saw it wasn't there. I do believe the list is complete now. The Boz 14:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Immune to knockdown and 3+ second knockdowns
I read that Shiro can be knocked down for 1 second by a warrior using Stonefist Insignia, as well as with any KD source and Earthbind, and I assume with Gust, which I later found to be true. I've been running around and it seems as though this applies to some un-knockdownable enemies, such as Mountain Yeti and Nomad Giants, but not others, such as Wurms. 4 second knockdown Backbreaker seems to knock them down for 2 seconds. This makes me think maybe Stun Immunity is really more like "Knockdown duration reduced by 2 seconds", which makes me think Wurms use some other mechanism.

I'd like to update this page, the stonefist page, and the immunity to stun page accordingly, but I'm not sure if this applies to all giants and special bosses, or if there are exceptions. Manifold 20:24, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think 2 second knockdowns cause an interrupt-like effect, and no idea what a 1 second KD (from Backbreaker @ 0 Hammer Mastery) would do. I would be willing to test this if I didn't have to go outside of the Isle of the Nameless to do so. -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  20:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Knock down disparity
Really and truly I do NOT like to be a complainer (If you want to back track through my posts to the wiki, you'll find I take a learners approach to my questions - since I consider myself such): nerfs, buffs, skill changes - I understand and I get it - learning to keep game play changing is what keeps the game fun.

Also I realize that there are many different areas, and places people play Guild Wars. Some PVP some PVE - some are GvG fans or the Hero Accent, or Alliance Battles. Some enjoy the thrill of running / some are farmers (trying to get their materials to purchase the special piece of armor) some are trying to keep their guild's faction high and keep or gain control of access to the best cities in the factions game.

Also I learned early on to make one of each character in order to keep the game fun, and also become proficient in PVP areas to try to get an advantage in terms of knowledge of my opponents. I have my favorite characters, but usually all of my characters keep me interested and excited playing the game. That said, I truly and humbly have a game issue that's really bothering me. It may bother or delight others- but I'm in the frustrated/bothered crowd today. After several weeks of game play, today I get the feeling that the skills that create knockdown (new buffs to warrior hammer skills) and knockdown assassins is unbalancing the game in favor of certain build types with little to counter the fast casting required to stop it. Not only that: But as I look at this main page and see HOW MANY skills can create a KD effect, and the less than ten skills to counter it/ I'm understanding WHY I constantly am finding myself the dead victim of PVP characters that have this series of skills.

I am always excited about some new aspect about the game which I didn't know about before, and also have my favorites. Today I'm really focused on CM missions particularly the Ft. Aspenwood challenge which also tends to be a favorite of mine.

Knock lock and quarter knock (i need to learn about editing so i could put a link to the wiki for those those not familiar) are important aspects of defensive and offensive PVP play. Looking at the counters to this viable and advantageous position that melee characters can use, I see very few ways to either interrupt or prevent the knock lock or the quarter knock situation: In fact, of the non-elite skills, the majority are "target OTHER ally" skills with the following exceptions (again speaking of PVP play) a single skill for melee and single skill for casters.

As you look at the list on the main page as I did, the disparity creating a knockdown vs. it's prevention is quite obvious. The game designers clearly want to keep the ability of being able to stop knock downs nearly completely preventable.

I know this is too verbose - I'm not an editor - (just frustrated game player at the moment) and may have this listed in the wrong section. But if you get the gist of what I'm trying to say, it's this: Rangers can kite and degenerate assassins. Assassins (without losing any energy can bang on their shadow step key until the ranger is no longer using a skill) - close the gap with a single skill and using skill bars requiring little (but mostly ZERO) delay between banging a series of skills destroy ranger not only from a large distance without penalty but also unscathed in the match up.

I could also give an example with a hammer warrior, but this is getting to long even for my sensibilities to those that would take the time to read this.

I guess i could just sum this up and say, OMgosh look at how many knockdowns a solo player can do- and OMgosh look how hard a solo player has to prevent this!

And finally not having played all areas of the game, including the several elite areas, if the game designers want to build a really tough mob using non-monster skills, make them a knock locking foe.

Again, please forgive for being so long and verbose, and if in wrong section for discussion. I hope I can get a point across with editor help without getting a complete deletion. Again thank you, humbly, and sincerely,

cecil 22:18, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * A little late to comment but any block stance or enchantment or whatever else that's similar (and this isn't including the literal knockdown prevention skills which are actually pretty accessible) renders knockdowns almost completely useless. If you get repeatedly owned by knockdowns then you just got outplayed and you need to change something, whether it be your skills, strategy, or even your main class if it's such a problem (not that needing to change your primary class to avoid this being a huge problem is a good thing but PvP characters are easily created and equipped for a reason). Pjwned 03:34, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Like Pjwned said, knock down is mostly countered through other means (outside of HA). That being said, if hard knock down counters were plentiful and convenient, knock downs would be useless instead of the most powerful mechanic in the game as they are and are meant to be. Once you get used to the rhythm, knock downs should never be a problem in Fort Aspenwood, especially. Interrupt, block, kite, whatever. Few people are actually competent at this in FA, which was not only sad to learn, but made playing a hammer warrior quite hilarious. If you are taken down once by a character due to knock downs, don't let it happen again or it's your own fault. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 03:54, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there are a lot of kd skills, but almost all are either attack skills -- in which case blind, block, or slow stops it getting through -- or spells, in which case you can usually interrupt (or have anti-spell protection); and on top of that you have specifically anti-kd defence. If you come prepared, it's not too bad. | 7  2   User_72_Truly_Random.jpg | 18:11, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Earthbind vs. Stun Immunity
We all know Earthbind bypasses Knockdown Immunity/Prevention for certain bosses and monster skills; but what about these? Has anyone bothered to test them? In particular, is there a way to test the PvE-only skills? --Falconeye 03:35, 27 May 2011 (UTC) Where is a good place to test these? --Falconeye 04:46, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * (elite) — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * Any — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * Any — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * Any — Tested; prevents Earthbind's effect.
 * Any — Earthbind's effect unknown.
 * Augury rock might be a good place to test them. Lotus 04:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure, you could bring the relevant skills + Earthbind (plus heals) to see what the doppel does. The bosses that use earthbind include: Wagg Spiritspeak, Spiritroot Mossbeard, and Quansong Spiritspeak. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 04:52, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably couldn't test Ice Fort though without breaking the TOS. Lotus 04:55, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure. Snowmen and Grentches from the summoning stones use Ice Fort, so can bring them to one of the bosses above and see if they get KD'd. (Probably have to waste a lot of stones.) Or less wasteful (and more tedious) would be in Secret Lair; Angry Snowman uses it. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 05:12, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Consolidated results
Here's the same data, presented in table form. Everyone has permission to update the table. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)



! Does EB bypass immunity? !! Prof !! Skill !! How tested
 * - style="background:lightgray;"


 * red ||  ||  ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red ||  ||  (elite)  ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * || Any ||   ||
 * }
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red ||  ||   ||
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * || Any ||   ||
 * }
 * red || Any ||   ||
 * || Any ||   ||
 * }
 * || Any ||   ||
 * }


 * Results
 * Yes Earthbind bypasses immunity.
 * red Earthbind does not bypass immunity.
 * untested.
 * The question was whether EB bypasses the immunity for these skills, as it does for Stun Immunity, so yes means a bypass; no means the immunity prevents EB.

— Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)