Talk:Gwen

Gwen Thackeray?
Could someone provide the source that indicates Gwen decided to take Keiran's family name? (Sure, their descendants are Thackerays, but that doesn't mean she decided to adopt it.) Thanks! (In case it's not obvious, I haven't completed HotN or read any of the GW books; feel free just to point to the relevant dialogue if it's that easy.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 21:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Would the descendents then be called Thackery-xxxx   ? -- Neil  • User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 21:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Source or not. She is known as Gwen in game and is the most searched for the name. She's "Gwen" in pre, she's "Gwen" in the HoM - even post wedding, I believe - and she's "Gwen" as a hero. No move imo.-- Konig / talk 21:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Moving makes no sense. Besides what Konig said, it would also be a spoiler for those who didn't complete HotN yet. It would be like moving Prince Rurik to Undead Prince Rurik just because that's how he ends up. Idmz 21:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm asking whether she should even be referred to as Gwen Thackeray, although I agree with Idmz & Konig about keeping her article centralized as Gwen. (This issue will probably also affect articles at GW2W.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 22:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * She is, but not in game. She's referred to as Gwen Thackeray in the Ghosts of Ascalon novel. -- Konig / talk 22:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for the quick answer. (I presume that GoA counts as canon for this wiki.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 22:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * All three novels are 100% canon until contradicted in GW2 - which, according to Jeff Grubb, will not be a likely event as they even went out of their way to re-create a few things after GoA was written. -- Konig / talk 22:18, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

missing dialog
she seems to be missing the dialog for here interaction with her mom in the underworld i dont know if that page has been updated to show that dialog or not? *saves this and checks*- Zesbeer 23:58, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * found it and added it.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 00:05, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * For the Wedding stuff, you added script. That's not the right stuff. Gwen has a dialogue when you click on her not when you're just in the area. IMO, the Underworld that you added should to the Underworld, not here (nor here), as that's the same situation as all of these and these. Those dialogues are not on their individual pages either. Of course, I'd say the same for the Gwen's garden dialogue, but at least that's a monologue... -- Konig / talk 03:04, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * i know there are other pages that have it the way i posted it. but i really dont care so wut ever.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 03:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I posted the "click on me" dialogue. razor 39999 13:05, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Underworld Dialogue
Doesn't belong on this page? --94.171.77.82 23:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Re-write
for the first time on this wiki I was utterly appalled. I fail to see the purpose of constantly aggrandizing this second rate bit part character. Her story should reflect events in the game, and some of this is garbage. Had she "led" the search for the Vanguard she would have fried Pyre on first contact, and that would have ended it. She led nothing, leaving the decision of what path to take in the hands of a random stranger who wandered into the eye. (why me? Just lucky I guess). Led the search for Thackaray? how? You don't "lead" anything wringing your hands back at the HOM. The game doesn't even give the flimsy facade of having her be a mandatory hero for much of the deeds this article ascribes to her. Lycantha 21:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Unlike Nightfall, which had the mandatory heroes for missions and quests bit, Eye of the North had the heroes "present in the background" in terms of mechanics so that players can do the stuff without needing them. In terms of lore, they were there in the front alongside the others. She didn't go on her hands and knees looking for Keiran, but she did lead the search (by commanding her subordinates to search, hence "lead"). You need to stop looking at things from a mechanic perspective when things are being talked about in a lore perspective. -- Konig / talk 21:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Lore wise she would never have made the deal with Pyre had there not been intervention by the actual leader at the time. Presence in the cinematics does not imply leadership.  This is written as if Gwen single-handedly did it all. I don't care that they are re-writing the supposed lore to pump her up to some sort of superstar for GW2, what is written here does not reflect events in-game. Quite frankly if anyone would have been called on by Adelbern it would have been Devona, not this strident twit. Lycantha 21:57, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Furthermore.."started" (beginning) Pyre on his road to revolution? WHAT.  Seems Pyre and his warband were in captivity for that before Gwen even met him. and Pyre assisted in toppling the heirophant of his own accord and his own reasons, Gwen "started" nothing, and Pyre's revolt preceded anything Gwen did in that particular storyarc. The article is just badly written. Lycantha 22:19, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * GW stories tend to have the player-character act as one cog in a large machine. We do not see all that is happening, and we are not the end-all nor be-all of the events. Do we have an effect? Of course, but rarely are we the leaders of any cause. We infer what we do not observe directly, one of which is Gwen's important role with the Vanguard. As for the events in the Charr homeland, that was much closer to a collaboration of many people rather than something led by the player or Gwen, but there can be no doubt she was the driving force to locate those who were missing.
 * To add, it doesn't say that she "started" Pyre on the road to revolution. The fall of the Hierophant can reasonably be seen as the beginning, which the article states as such. Please re-read. G R E E N E R  22:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "In doing so, she toppled Hierophant Burntsoul, beginning Pyre Fierceshot's long road to revolution" ok I used started. Beginning?  explain the difference please.  Pyre was in revolt prior to Gwen even knowing who he was.  Lore should include what we do observe.  The bookah has gone crazy.  Intervention.  Continuation of story that would not have happened had Gwen actually been the Leader.  What happened was Gwen's insistence on rescuing the Ebon vanguard LED TO the discovery of Pyre's revolt against the Hierophant.. and the events that led to the toppling of the Hierophant.  not SHE toppled the hierophant.  This article is blowing her role far out of proportion to what she did. Lycantha 23:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Be bold. G R E E N E R  23:53, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that the PC has to be the leader due to mechanics. Nothing really says "the PC was the leader" in lore. In fact this says we were more of second-in-comment. The PC has always been "second best" truth be told - in Proph we're behind Rurik, then the WM, then the SB, in Factions, we're behind Mhenlo and Togo; in Nightfall we're behind Kormir half the time. Yes, she would of killed Pyre if not for intervention, but it would of been any intervention, tbh.
 * The death of Burntsoul was the beginning of the revolution, she didn't start it. Huge difference. Burntsoul could of died due to a bug bite and it would of been the beginning of the revolution. Feel free to edit but it honestly sounds like you're mistaking mechanics with canon lore (a tough issue with games, especially RPGs with a sole main story). -- Konig / talk 00:02, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

So, what did happen in game? Gwen insisted we find the Vanguard. In the process we discover Pyre, and his band, forming an unlikely and astonishing alliance of Human and Charr that both freed the Vanguard.. and destroyed the Hierophant. I would say that Pyre actively assisting humans and killing charr prior to the death of the hierophant as revolt. Gwen is still pivotal to the story. What actually happened in the game is better lore than what was written here. That is my point. Re writing Gwen to fit more heroic role in GW2 degrades the lore that existed here prior. Lore has to include what actually occured in game, and in game Gwen did NOT topple the Hierophant.. a more dynamic coalition of human and charr, acting in concert for different reasons, did. It is a better story, period. Lycantha 00:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I get it at least, but I'm nobody, I couldn't win a revertion war to save my own reputation, let alone Gwen Potter's. I'm the nobody that resented Gwen's every last whine. I'm the nobody that couldn't believe anybody would put somebody that emotionally unbalanced in charge of anything at all. I'm the one that watched the first Harry Potter movie and saw a fraud that did nothing, let everybody else do all of the work, only to step up at the very end to take all the credit. I'm the one that wanted no part in helping Thackeray to woo this thoroughly awful woman. Any of his friends would have advised him to just pump her and dump her. But this annoying woman is the Harry Potter of Guild Wars, saying these things you say, you're going to get nowhere. Just accept it. 81.134.131.2 14:52, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I support your view that the adult Gwen is a whinger Rank 7. I support your view that her actions don't credibly support the response of other NPCs in the game (appointing her leader, allowing her to run a search for a single, missing EV in the midst of War, ...). However, as noted, this is consistent with what happens in the rest of the game. Kormir stands around and shouts at the party. She gets kidnapped and blinded. The party rescues her and she returns to standing and shouting. The party defeats Abaddon...and Kormir is the one elevated to God status?


 * So, it doesn't matter if Gwen deserved her accolades; she received them. And the article needs to reflect what actually happened in-game.

. She was a leader, just not the leader. Therefore, she did lead, but was not first-in-command. So the article is accurate, but somewhat misleading. Re-writen a bit to help reflect this. -- Konig / talk 18:30, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 * IP 81 seems adept at writing &mdash; I'd be interested in seeing an alternative version of the background text, even if it doesn't end up as part of a mainspace article. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Recalling an important fact mentioned in the second wiki'er written paragraph on this page, the "led" bits are, in fact, rather accurate. "Within a year she had risen to the position of second-in-command"

A small change, but this more accurately reflects her role. Important, but not wonder woman. Lycantha 21:55, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

As to the role of our character in the lore, which includes this, John Stumme has said in his discussion page that lorewise it was the PC who did the missions, and not solely NPC's like Devona and co. or Gwen et. al. What we see in the game (us leading much of the time in the missions - and no, we're not a random stranger, the fact that the PC survived an encounter with the destroyers proves they are capable, plus much of EotN is done in such a way that lorewise the char who journeyed there was most likely the hero from Proph, who Gwen had actually met before) is what really happened. And one thing I've noticed about haters is that they can't ever seem to accept that characters change in a story. By the time of the wedding, Gwen's at last opening up, not just to Kieran but to others as well. Yet haters will never admit that. They have one picture fixed in their mind and they will not allow anything to challenge it. --Nathe 18:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Presearing Gwen
One thing that I just noticed with the Embark Reach update... Gwen no longer follows my level 16 presearing character anymore. She will still follow my level 8 permapre character and any new presearing character that I create, but not my level 16 character anymore. Can anyone confirm this, or is GW just being weird for me? Also, when I first went to her, I found that she had been reset (no flute, no cape) which allowed me to get a 2nd tapestry shred. I've always been very good at making sure to get it before I get hit with the tapestry shred glitch, but for just my level 16 character, I was able to get a 2nd tapestry shred from Gwen. Does anyone know if they fixed the tapestry shred glitch? Does Gwen stop following you around at level 10, when the Vanguard quests become available? I don't see any of this in the update notes, but Embark Reach is the only major update that has changed presearing. Anyone have an idea what may be happening? -- Blacksheepghost 15:34, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * She follows my L14 toon and my friend's L15 and L16 toons. Yesterday was the first day I even tried it out in probably 12 months. She also still follows the mapping out trick: I had her follow my character, then mapped out to Fort Ranik; when I exited, there she was. (Very helpful for completing the pre-Searing challenge.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I just encountered this problem on my level 14 warrior. Here's what I did. First, I talked to Langmar to get the daily quest. Then I went outside to pick up Gwen (as I had previously already given her a cape, flute, and received her tapestry shred), but as Blacksheepghost said, she had neither cape nor flute. So I went back inside, abandoned the quest, went back outside and she was still the same. Then I went back inside, bought a cape and a flute, and gave them to her to receive a second tapestry shred. Even then, she wouldn't follow me around. I have a theory. Anet will have to verify, but I'm thinking that even though Gwen's cape + flute = tapestry shred combo was reset, her initial quest to find her missing flute was not reset, and so she no longer offers the option to follow the player around and heal you even if you gave her another flute and cape. So, also taking into account Tennessee's post above, this is either a random glitch, or it's a very specific one to trigger. I hope Anet sees this or someone brings this up on one of the Anet staff's pages here. I would but I have no clue who I'd want to talk to. Kalus Kordosa 02:57, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I just went out for another visit with the same toon: same as above. I didn't try for another tapestry shred, tho.


 * I also took my mule toon out, found the broken flute, and gave Gwen 3 irises; no cape, no flute. This, as before the recent updates, gained her favor and she follows the mule toon around successfully. (She is wearing a cape, although I never bought one for her.) The map-out trick works and I double-checked that she continues to follow on subsequent visits. (By the way, you cannot have flowers in your inventory if you want her to follow; they have to be dropped first.) Also, the presence/absence of Vanguard quests has no impact.


 * I don't have any way to conduct further testing without risking my own toon's ability to keep Gwen as a healer. (I'm willing to do a lot in the name of science, but nerfing my pursuit of LDoA isn't one of them.)


 * I know I was very careful to avoid the glitch, but I no longer remember whether I knew about it in time for my perma-pre to avoid it. I also don't remember whether this toon bought a cape (or flute) for Gwen or used the three-iris method to win favor; it was just too long ago.


 * Which is why I ask: is it at all possible that you guys don't remember whether you did/did not receive a tapestry shred earlier? Doesn't that sound more likely than ANet fixing a long-standing and infamous bug, but forgetting to brag to us that they had addressed it? On the other hand, if you are positive (or at least, very sure), then you should report it. You have a couple of different options:
 * Contact support via either email or ticket. This has the advantage that you are guaranteed some type of response (although it might be canned).
 * Create a Bug Report. This has the advantage of allowing others to add details, but (at least recently) doesn't get much active response from the QA team.


 * Let us know what you find out, through further testing, from ANet, or luck (good/bad/indifferent). — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 10:24, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Post-WiK dialogue in HoM
Trigger: I accepted the quest reward for War in Kryta, then mapped directly from Lion's Arch (War in Kryta) to EotN to add my Oppressor's weapon to Valor. A few seconds after I entered HoM, the Ebon Falcon group came in and the lengthy dialogue capped here played out. The "mud for brains" line at the top was left over from LA and isn't part of this sequence. Should this dialogue be here, in WiK, in Beyond, or what? Is it somewhere already? I'm not doing all that typing unless I know where it actually goes, and even then I'd rather not. :P -- Tekn0mancer talk 22:19, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * that dialog starts you into the hearts of the north story arch. its already on the wiki and is a part of Guild Wars Beyond.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 23:47, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. Since it's one of her longer scripts, I expected it to be referenced here and thought it was odd that it wasn't. -- Tekn0mancer [[File:User_Tekn0mancer-Awaken_the_Blood_19px_sig.jpg]] talk 02:43, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * if you want to do hearts of the north i believe you now go to watchtower cost and look for the Embedded Arrowhead-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 03:29, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Glitch??
In pre- Gwen doesn't follow me around(and never has this char.) and has extorted over 32 red irises from me. She also has yet to offer me the flute quest. Help, PLEASE!!! EDIT:signed -- Necro Shea Mo 03:58, 24 April 2011 (UTC)