Talk:Game updates/20090618

<3
less hexshit <3 -- Mafaraxas 01:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I LOVE YOU ANET

LOVE, THE RITUALISTS 216.8.135.163

OMG, this is an amazing update. They really did great job. ^^!--TroyVoy88 02:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :D --  euphoracle  |  talk  02:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, they really did a great job with this one. This update will probably mean less winning because of what skills you brought and more winning with better tactics and smart play, now make tactics attribute decent again and make the stances "ends if you cast a spell/you cannot cast spells" and i will uninstall WoW and come back to GW, thankyou so much for palm strike nerf too, no more death by random 1>2>3>4>5 spamming :D. Shogun 14:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Monk SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
I love my life =^-^= ~ Ryuu [  Talk | Contributions  ] 02:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

FINALLY THEY NERF VOR AND SH--142.204.86.103 02:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

lol. Was very sexy. -- Antioch 19:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Palm Strike
YAY! no more spamming palm strike *dance* :D --Vermiller 02:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * NO! no more spamming palm strike *sob* D: 66.66.144.147 02:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

ok but this isnt a problem at all my build kills palm strike build and it kills faster pm me as emperor jon if you want to see the build
 * Yup. Palm Strike is officially dead.  Sure, it Cripples and thus leads into a Trampling Ox chain, but hey, guess what?  It's now balanced for GvG - because, as we all know, the ability of an Assassin to launch an attack chain more than once in a lifetime is broke as all hell.  This skill was GORGEOUS for a flexible build based on short-chains and partials, a skill that let an Assassin adapt to circumstances and multitask in a fight, tailor their attack chains to what was needed instead of one, single, inflexible 1-2-3-4 chain.  Now it's every bit as worthless as Golden Phoenix, because people are girls about Assassins being able to hurt them more than once an hour.  Thank you ArenaNet, for once again making my Assassin a pointless waste of a couple hundred hours of my life. 209.169.211.94 05:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)Unregistered Angry Man
 * IF memory serves me correctly that is the bar people are crying is worthless? All I have to say to that is PS 7/TrampOx 8.  The bar isn't hardly touched, except for the fact that you can't use PS isn't recharged immediately when the chain is over.  You have to wait another 2 seconds on it, and your point is?.  PS sins were really spoiled if they are upset about that.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 06:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All they changed is that you can now use palm strike if your chain fails (which, ironically, isn't possible if you're using palm strike) ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PS is still fine, it just means you can't spam it on ppl for unblockable damage and crippling anymore, so no more starting and finishing chains with it and no more PS/DB spam while your chain's recharging. It's still a powerful spike, and 7 seconds isn't that long given by the time you've finished spiking some of that will already be over, it's just a bit more balanced now. 86.26.56.226 09:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * just +3seconds brings so many complaint? Seems some people just couldn't play sin without overpowered builds...don't worry, you'll find new meta. pff--紅茶喵._. 18:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * just +3seconds brings so many complaint? Seems some people just couldn't play sin without overpowered builds...don't worry, you'll find new meta. pff--紅茶喵._. 18:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Lol
Nomore QQway yay!--FoxPromise 02:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC) ok? this isnt much of a problem cuz i kill every palm strike sins its easy wanna use my build pm me in game as emperor jon

Ritualist Buff
Made me cry tears of joy. This is what ritualists are SUPPOSED to be. Spirit summoning more viable! Yay! I'm sad about Palm Strike but it really needed to be nerfed and...so outweighed by this awesomeness! Plus, so much of this is good! I <3 you ANet. Awesome update. Green Arrow 02:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This is great! --Galatea Soulcrusher 02:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * My Rit may become my next main now that it's able to finish setting up before the fight is over. 000.00.00.00  02:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Still sad it was mainly for PvE--Wingsy 02:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but they explain this in the Developer Update. 000.00.00.00  02:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just came from a basketball game. Oh dam... wow... still reading the changes.--ShadowFog 03:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well the PvE side is awesome but dam... the PvP side sucks. Why nerf Signet of Binding? Main ingredient to keep some Communing spirits alive. The man is banning the Ritualist from PvP. Oh well, you cant win them all.*Looking at Signet of Spirits devilishly*.--ShadowFog 03:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you can steal the opposing team's expensive 25e Recuperation now, and so on. Why create spirits yourself if you can let the enemy do it for you? Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This skill is like Verata's Aura Gaze but more common(all Ritualists uses spirits). The shitty communing lineup just got crappier. You know whats fucked up? Ive already completed 3 campaigns with my Rit(PvE) with what it was before, looks like NightFall will be a breeze now to complete.--ShadowFog 03:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why am I the only one that thinks that the ability of three properly-specced Ritualists to cast EVERY BINDING RITUAL IN THE GAME in something approaching seven seconds is NOT necessarily a good thing? The new face of PvE: four Paragons spamming shouts that make them A.) invincible and B.) Gods of Damage, three Ritualists setting up twenty-odd Spirits before the Paragons are finished with their first round of Find Their Rapehole, and one WoH redbar just to catch the occasional slip when an enemy actually manages to land a point of damage.  Or, more likely, as a nod to the fact that other classes outside of Paragons and Ritualists exist in PvE.  Guarantee it.  Everyone else just lost their jobs, outside Shadowfarm.  As if PvE wasn't enough of a joke before... 209.169.211.94 05:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)Unregistered Angry Man
 * Ritualists definately needed a buff, but this was a bit drastic. Personally I would have erred on the side of caution, maybe gone for 1- and 2-sec cast times (still a lot better than 3 and 5) but still. Possibly if it proves to be too much they may tone things back down again, but then again it is PvE, they don't really seem to care that much any more (*cough* Shadow Form *cough*). 86.26.56.226 09:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (reset indent) I think this is less drastic than it seems. It used to be that you summoned your spirits, and then teleported them into the fray using the PvE skill Summon Spirits (or lured the enemies towards them). Basically what Anet did is remove the 10 seconds or so it took before each fight to summon your army. Yes, they did get a bit tougher, but enemies deal a lot more damage in PvE so it's only natural to allow the Ritualist to get some mileage out of their spirits. And since you still can't cast more than 1 spirit of each type, I'd say that this is more of a convienience buff than a real power buff. 145.94.74.23 10:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to say, after playing with this update for a while, my verdict is that it is extremely fun. :D IMO, this is how Ritualists should always have been: spirit summoners. They basically punished you for summoning spirits in PvE before by making it so darn difficult in so many ways, and the result (a) Ritulaists not getting played and (b) Many rit bulds depending on secondary professions, restoration magic, and weapons and the like. Now a real spirit summoning rit is more than feasible; it's brilliantly effective. Plus, did I mention that it's just really fun? :D Green Arrow 12:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I COMPLETELY agree with the ANGRY MAN above. The new face of PvE is this. I think actually "only" one overpowered paragon or two, that also can heal, and 6 cowardly spirit spammers standing back while their spirits do the job. 95.119.60.41 19:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd have to agree with "209.169.211.94". In my eyes, the game has lost realism. In a ritualist/shaman/summoner etc casts a ritual.. it's not going the be instantaneous. No, I didn't agree w/ the 3-5 seconds casts but the new basically insta-casts are just as bad. Every caster has to worry about getting interrupted.. until now. On a side note, what about ranger spirits. Many of them suck and they're still 5 seconds to cast... wtf? Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] Talk  20:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Realism? We're talking about summoning spirit creatures and casting spells, and you're worried about realism? :P As for not being interruoted, I don't think it's that big of a deal. It only applies to PvE and there aren't that many interrupts in PvE anyway. And ranger spirits are totally different--rangers aren't supposed to be spirit summoners. Spirit summoning is sort of the point of Rits...they ought to be really good at it! It's like saying "oh really, come on, why are elementalists so good at casting spells?" Well, d'oh. Oh, and "cowardly" spirit spammers? That statement just boggles my mind. How can you be brave or cowardly...it's a game. Is it more "brave" to play an idiot sin with low armor and high damage output and die every 5 seconds? That sentence just confuses and amuses me on so many levels. >__>; Green Arrow 02:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * While I'm sure this update is loads of fun for a lot of Ritualist players, it also makes Ritualist enemies (i.e. Afflicted Ritualists) in HM a total pain. Coupled with the 33% faster activation time of HM, interrupting a Ritualist's spirit bindings is practically impossible now, and thanks to the buff to spirit health, spirits can take a lot more beating. End result: Ritualist spirit healers are very, VERY powerful now; too powerful, in my opinion. Also, I miss being able to watch my Ritualist Heroes do that fancy little summoning animation when they bind spirits. It happens almost instantaneously now!


 * Overall, I think the Ritualist buff was very nice and a boon to Ritualist players everywhere, but the casting time improvement was too much. Reducing casting times by a third would be just perfect, in my opinion. (So 3 sec binding Rituals now take 2 seconds, and 5 sec ones take 3 seconds.) - Zaxares 02:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Addendum to my post above. Solo quests/missions involving spirit-summoning Ritualist enemies (The Tengu Accords, Cold As Ice, facing Razah in the Norn Tournament) also got much, MUCH harder. It's not so bad when you're in a group and you can mitigate the spirit's effects, but when you're alone, and when the ritualist can put down 5 spirits in less than 4 seconds (since it seems binding rituals do not have an aftercast), the Ritualist has a distinctly overpowered advantage. - Zaxares 06:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I do agree that rit enemies in HM have gotten much harder, but you can still pretty much counter them the same way as ever. They're a lot tougher but I'm still able to beat them alright. I also agree with you that they might have gone a bit too far with this--higher casting times would still be good--but the game really isn't RUINED FOREVER!!!11one1!! like some people want to claim. You also have to think; are the rits as overpowered in pve as they once were underpowered? Not really. It's still an improvement. Green Arrow 15:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, I never said that the game was ruined forever. Overall, I agree with almost all of the changes ANet made in this update (except "We Shall Return!", but that's another story). In fact, I'm definitely in favour of retaining the other Ritualist buffs. I even agree that a reduction in the activation time of Binding Rituals is warranted; I just think that 0.75 - 1 second was too excessive, and that a 2 - 3 second activation time is more reasonable. I know that spirits can still be countered, but my major gripe is in situations where you're in a solo quest/mission, and you're a character that doesn't have access to AoE damage. I know a lot of people have been struggling against Master Riyo in the Tengu Accords since the buff, for example. - Zaxares 01:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

RoJ
OF COURSE.... 3 days after i make major use of roj they fix the aoe recognition bug, i tested everythign scattered--Lord randy taylor 02:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The note only says hero AI, does it do it for npcs, too? If so, this should be added as a wiki note. ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 02:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

after i saw RoJ and Ai i jumped to my monk and went to bergens 3 grps all scatterd like it was firestorm--Lord randy taylor 02:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming good faith, adding wiki note, probably going to get pwned for it. ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 02:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

they ran they dotn stand there getting hurt nwo they move out of the way--Lord randy taylor 02:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "The following AI updates apply to Heroes and Hard Mode NPCs." 000.00.00.00  02:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, removing note. I'll check NM and PvP. -facepalm- ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 02:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone changed it for me :3 ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 02:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

i didint check NM i assumed they did it for both--Lord randy taylor 02:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

what about pvp npc? like those at jade quarry?--67.70.68.195 02:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Feel free to test it, based off the update notes it's to my understanding that it won't cause scatter, but I've yet to get verification. ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently verified, it will also (apparently) cause scatter on PvP arena NPCs. ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 03:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

does not cause scatter in NM--Lord randy taylor 03:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tested RoJ in JQ, I can confirm the NPC's scatter. They are bit slow at moving, but they do in fact scatter from RoJ.  -Drakora 03:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i guess it's back to seeing bombers in JQ then. and some farms just got nerfed because of the scatter from roj :( Daeheru 04:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They are easier to stop... many will go back to bomb whoring.--ShadowFog 04:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

NPCs do not include PVE enemies? Or does it? - 210.213.219.162 13:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * NPCs are non-playable characters, that includes monsters and the like. Freedom Bound 13:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Really not happy about this. Killed the last thing I had left to enjoy in the game. Well one more player goen from GWs Brian78wa    talk  15:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If RoJ was the only enjoyable part of the entire game for you, then I doubt you or Guild Wars are much worse off. >_> Green Arrow

Find Their Weakness
"For 5..20 seconds, the next time target ally attacks, that ally also inflicts a Deep Wound and does 5..50 additional damage for 5..20 seconds."

epic. it's like deep wound + SoH 76.188.221.120 02:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Woah, just tried it and it's bugged. The shout ends on application of Deep Wound. still cool though 76.188.221.120 02:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * ANet is bad at English. I do believe the Deep Wound is for seconds, not the additional damage :P --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle  02:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * either they coded the entire description wrong, or the functionality is wrong. Judging by history I'm going with functionality. 76.188.221.120 02:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ya my friend noticed this too. i'm assuming it's the functionality simply because it says "attacks" and i don't think anet would make a mistake like that so easily. i just hope it is functionality because then i can start working on a hero para build to work with my pve warr build Daeheru 04:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "...The next time target ally attacks..." means the shout ends once the target ally has attacked.  Atra Astrum (talk)  [[Image:User AtraAstrum sigpic.png]] 07:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, especially because if the really was referring to extra attack time, there'd be no time length mentioned for the Deep Wound.

Reward Points
So do we get June's reward points in August or will it be September? Christmas surprise bonus weekend, we finally decided to release June's reward points... -Drakora 02:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I got the points for one of my accounts, the other one I have registered didn't O.O 000.00.00.00  02:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't get points on any of my accounts. :( [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  02:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didnt get any rewards, on any of my accounts, what is the worst of all this is that Anet wouldnt matter explaining what's happening, as they delayed them by 1 week and they didnt even give the points, but they are on the update.--Calerouxz 02:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * reward points are bugged again like they were another month. anet is probably working on an update for that as we speak (or type in this case) Daeheru 04:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope they are working on it, I would like to get the points. Anyway, I can wait and I won't die from it so. It's still a game made by humans, and humans just make mistakes now and then. And it's also a new system so yeah, website got changed etc..., i'll give them some slack. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  04:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I have a massive problem! I have 4 guildwars accounts and just ran the update for the Tournament Reward points, on 3 of my accounts I got NOTHING, zipo, zero reward points not even the 5 participation points!! What the %^#@%%*^ is GOING ON???? Then I tracked the board right through the month and feel that I made very good predictions with 1vs1 and GvG with the people with the most QP obviously as my best picks, where can we view the results (the final rated results) for the month of May cause I believe that again this can not be correct(actually its impossible) and I want to see were my predictions were wrong! Or is these results a MAJOR SECRET?? If these results are available i prefusely apologise Jaba Manaka
 * Well might be a little late and you discovered the obvious problem, but for future reference here. Frybringer 20:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How many points do you get for what? 'Cos this is the first tiem I've done this and I couldn't even remember who I put. And is it the Elimination, Swiss round or both (combination or both separately) which decide things? 86.26.56.226 15:40, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow
Stuff like Disenchantment... now at 1 sec cast. Rits the new meta? I did not see this coming... doh just realized... most are PvE changes. thanks.....

Ele/Sin Nerfs
They broke every fire build in the game with the Ele nerf. Less drastic: they broke my PvE build with the Sin nerf :( Dargus 02:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you just can't win despite being terrible now. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 02:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, eles don't have energy problems. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 02:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Searing Flames is still OP
 * Fire ele's broken? Not even close. If 15 energy every 25 seconds destroys your elementalist then you're obviously doing something wrong. The only thing this'll hurt is the FC echo SH Me/E. 208.125.194.60 03:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Completely agree with above IP; if your having problems managing 15 energy every 25 secs, you might as well switch to an adrenaline War or Para. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 07:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you use Savannah Heat, Searing Heat and Tenai's Heat every 30 seconds (almost exactly recharge), it will cost you 45 energy. However, in those 30 seconds, you gain 40 energy from regeneration alone. So you can pretty much use them without energy management. Add attunements or the glyph, and suddenly the energy cost doesn't matter anymore...145.94.74.23 10:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

VSF
How do people farm VS now? --FoxPromise 02:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * By using WTB VSF, PM Me in Spamadan -Drakora 02:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure they'll find a way. Farmers ALWAYS find a way. Or do what Drakora mentioned. ;) - Zaxares 02:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * by not being terrible. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 02:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Simple, get a good Assassin that knows how to trap, or get an Assassin with A/E snares. You only have like 2 points in Air Magic, I think you can put a lot into a Freezing Gust. Than 02:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How were they farmed? -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 03:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * cry of pain and ray of judgment and a shadow form assassin. like everything else. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  03:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A shit-ton of Rits with this --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 03:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LFP Perma,bip,hb,4 SH + Snare.  ~Enar.   hello.  05:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good ol' SHway imho :D -- T iger[[Image:User_SoulRiven_Tiger_Sig.png‎|talk]] 13:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

F*CK YEAH
Just when I was getting annoyed due to no good updates, this happens! Woot! Thanks Anet! :D -- smøni 02:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Can't Touch This!
WOOT! Affects all allies now! I am SO going to take this with me into HM missions like Bloodstone Fen. Eat THAT, you stupid toucher Scarabs! Mwaaahahahahahaha! - Zaxares 02:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Those failed Vamp Touches will just recharge instantly, and I'm pretty sure like most mobs the Scarabs have haxxor energy anyway, so it should only buy you a few seconds at most. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 02:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think it's silly how failed skills recharge instantly, but those extra few seconds to stop my Heroes being touch-spiked to death by 5 Scarabs should be all I need to snare them/thin out their ranks and gain the upper hand. - Zaxares 03:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It *is* kind of ironic that the skill that seems to be *designed* to fight toucher mobs is fairly worthless against them. But you can easy-mode that mission and bonus in HM with yourself (AP + EVA + some condition causing skill), and three discord necro heroes.  Just disable their offensive spells and keybind their discords while you're doing the bonus.  I'd sign, but I don't even remember my password so its nbd.

VoR
VoR got an amazing balance, and it's still usable. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that it doesn't stack with Wastrel's Worry anymore. Given how trying to cast hex removal on yourself with WW works, I assumed VoR/WW would still work together. Tests prove otherwise. Albrect Karew 02:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So can you clarify how VoR works to see if I've got it correct? Enemies take 15...45 damage whenever they use a skill, PLUS an extra 5...50 if they are not under any other Mesmer hexes? Or is it they take 5...50 if they are not under any other Mesmer hexes? I'm thinking it's the former, but I can't login to GW to check now. - Zaxares 02:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Enemies take ADDITIONAL damage when not under any other mez hexes. So in your example, if I hex someone with only VoR, they will take 20...95 damage on skill use. If I VoR + Backfire, the VoR then only does 15...45. 208.125.194.60 03:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This was actually an incredibly insighted update for ANet. Though it means you can't cover VoR without losing damage, it also means that hexways can't stack hundred of things on top of it without also losing that damage. Although, necromancer hexes can still be put on top et.c. but it's still not a bad change. It does make it less powerful overall, but tbh it needed that anyway. 86.26.56.226 09:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Racway
Will now be so damn amazing. Bladeturn spam anyone? So many options, so little time! 76.185.136.254 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

BEST. UPDATE. Ever.
Hexway gets the nerf bat while fleeing (therefore critical hit). Good job. Rits and paragons are more useful. W00T!
 * Yes, in PvE only.--ShadowFog 04:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Soul reaping is even more useful now than Spawning power.--Wealedout 04:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where did hexway get the nerfbat? Oh, you mean the part where the skill functions didn't change at all?  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 08:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * VoR can't be stacked with other mesmer hexes, LC costs more not so much of a deal but it means you do have to think about your energy slightly now) and WK is less powerful than it was. Hexway definately got nerfed, though you would have preferred re-works I'm sure. 86.26.56.226 09:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow
I am surprised. Anet is out of there 6 month break. Good job Anet :). Dominator Matrix  03:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Its really amazing! This is such a good job. Thank you Anet!!! =D <font color="Black">| <font color="Cyan">Cyan <font color="Black">Light [[Image:User Cyan Light User-Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Cyan"> Live! | 07:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is certainly a damnsite better than some previous updates, and a lot better than it could have been. We can always pick over the details (e.g. some of those para updates in PvP would have been nice) but overall it was certain a good update. 86.26.56.226 09:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Rangers
Bows are still useless but who cares, I'm going to have my PvE ranger equip its expertise equipment and run a spirit spam build.
 * Go learn to play, rangers own PvE and PvP --Ritualist-tango-icon-200.png Requiem  12:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lern2ranger <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  14:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i LoL'd,my War's Bow does more dmg than most Scythe builds... pve is gay liek that -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 09:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Rangers pwn learn to play them--Lord randy taylor 00:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Thx Anet

 * In regards to ending the Palm Strike madness.
 * In regards to making ritualists better, might start playing my spirit spammer again.
 * In redards to what I found a scantly clad warrior who throws sticks at people, perhaps I will find these useful finally.
 * In regards to heros, every little bit of brains counts.

HOWEVER, in regards to "Brace Yourself" (PvP)... roflwtf? I might have to try it later, but the way it was phrased made me giggle...

In any case, thank you very much. Amazing <font color="Black"> Steve  03:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How did they end palm strike? It still has a lower recharge than all the other skills on the bar.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been laughing so hard at the narrow-mindedness of everyone who clearly only rolled a PvP sin to play metabuilds since this update. As a secondary character sin, I was actually insulted by the PS builds making it 'Skill; If you do not have this on your bar, prepared to be flamed for playing PvP'. They up the recharge of a meta build by three seconds, and people are prepared to delete their PvP sins. What's the big deal? Your meta is no longer OP, so you're going to go QQ until you can find something else overpowered to briefly exploit? Anyway, it's still a viable elite and the chain is still usable. So people should just stop bitching, get on with their lives. If they don't like it, there's no need to tell the rest of the world, because it isn't that devastating. ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 00:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Shard, this skill has the same effectiveness unless you wanted to trick the monk by crippling one guy and switching to another while waiting for trampling ox to recharge. Assassin Warrior User Assassin Warrior sig.png 00:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah PS is still what it was always meant to be, a good way to get to a powerful dual attack quickly. It's also still what made it powerful after its buff, a crippling skill which allowed you to use Trampling Ox with ease. It's no longer a super-damage-spam skill which lets sins do spammable unblockable damage (with some armour-ignoring AoE) while waiting for their main spike to recharge - something which I don't think PS should be, or ever should have been. I'm also glad they didn't Smiter's Boon it, though. 86.26.56.226 16:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to pick one flaw in your topic, talk shit about it making it look like you are completely wrong because of just that one instance at the same time talking about something that has nothing to do with "Thx Anet". Thanks Anet. Pick an NPC warrior with charge and give Fallback to your hero Paragon and everyone is always running. Ritualists are so much better now and can keep up with the party.--Wealedout 12:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry? Ritualists? What? 86.26.56.226 18:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggested 1 more for Palm strike but it will do fine. it means 1 less attack skill and 1 more utility if you are really good. Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 19:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have taken my dog for a walk, and FYI taking a dog for a walk is like meditation for me. So for those who think assassins don't have viable/balanced builds for PvP, then please check these:  (note that the second one is for HA) Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 20:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Brace yourselves pvp causes client to crash
Doesn't for me D: Frosty 03:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * did when i equipped it in HA.. pretty fun --<font color="Black">Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 11:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Necos no longer create minions out of combat
Don't know what broke or what underlining conditions are involved, but necos no longer seem to want to create minons out of combat after this update. I have not experimented enough to know if issue involves having two or more hero mms in a party --DaveBaggins, 22:14, June 18 2009 (CST)




 * Nonononononoononononono, I got all excited to see that my discord way hero build was unaffected by this update~! Pwease be false ;~; ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 03:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed this with my Livia, using sabway, anyone else notice this too?--Mor<font color="gray" size="2px"> Dred<font color="silver" size="2px">  1622<font color="black" size="2px">  03:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hopefully, this will be fixed(!). I was running one of my chars through Fort Ranik HM when I noticed this oddity. (I had to manually force my mms to create minions.) :-( --DaveBaggins, 22:14, June 18 2009 (CST)
 * Its a pain isn't it.--Mor<font color="gray" size="2px"> Dred<font color="silver" size="2px">  1622<font color="black" size="2px">  03:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, I notice this too while H/H FoW my Master wasn't casting Minion spells. I was like wtf, I must be getting massive lag. UPDATE: It appears that 2 is the maximum then they stop casting MM skills.--TroyVoy88 03:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Same here, heros were not raising minions. This was an undocumented Nerf to Minion Masters.  It's either that or I call the BS flag into play on this so called "QA department" at Anet. -Drakora 04:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am incline to think this is more a bug then a nerf. Reading the description for Death magic, two minions appear to be the limit for creating minions if no points are put into it -- it's almost as if the game doesn't see any points in death magic when it comes to having heroes "auto cast" minion spells. --DaveBaggins, 23:22, June 18 2009 (CST)
 * Fixed. "Fixed a bug with Hero and NPC AI which would prevent them from effectively utilizing minion skills." ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 04:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

My hero minion master(16 death) would not make more minions as long as he had atleast two up. I agree that I do not think this was intended with the update and is a bug...A-net please fix quickly...It is a huge pain to have to babysit my mm.Tath 04:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Fixed :). <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  04:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Damn I keep forgeting the /Sacasim tag. -Drakora 04:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, Aura of the Lich seems to be fine on heros... They will make a minion automaticly on zone... they will recast it later when theres nothing else to do (often exploiting all corpses as intended) its not perfect but I noolonger have to micro it... MrPaladin talk 12:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

O.o well spells
Descriptions of Well Spells have been appended with "You do not sacrifice Health if there is a fresh corpse to exploit."
 * Does that mean you can create wells anywhere now? -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 03:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, it means that ANet accidentally leaked part of a future update. :D (or for those of you who have been following other update leaks, it would be confirmation, I guess) Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, that was confusing when I looked at the description till I found this page.--Mor<font color="gray" size="2px"> Dred<font color="silver" size="2px">  1622<font color="black" size="2px">  03:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Kinda weird, if it's going to be at your location, I guess there's no more making it at their location? -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 03:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They'll probably exploit used corpses only, as well as fresh ones. Any other way would be a disaster. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but being able to create a well without an exploitable corpse would be good, as long as they made it costly enough, since otherwise most wells are kinda pointless, especially in small arenas and things. 86.26.56.226 09:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that ANet is moving in a direction away from corpse dependent well spells. I think in the future we're going to see wells that form at a players' location. But with this will probably come the longer recharges, casting times, and a loss in the ability for it to be kept up indefinitely.  Drago  15:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It would make a sort of thematic sense, too, if you sacced health, since it would be like you were making a Well out of yourself instead of someone else's corpse. It would certainly make Wells a lot more flexible, but yes there would have to be greater costs... perhaps they will/could make the recharge or something conditional on whether you use a corpse or not. 86.26.56.226 18:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

They're still pussyfooting it, but...
...I guess in the end this update wasn't so bad. At least nothing new overpowered has been introduced, except maybe ritualists in PvE, but they kinda needed a buff, seeing as how necros basically stole their job. And it's lol PvE anyway. I do wish they'd stop undernerfing, though. The hits on hexway, VoR and Palm Strike were needed and appreciated, but they should have been hit harder, if you ask me. --Jette  03:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a sneaking suspicion that people will now run Me/N and cover VoR with, like, pbond or Insidious or something. Other than that, I think we'll just have to wait and see how hexway and PS play out...the PS chain didn't honestly lose much, since the rest of its skills don't recharge that fast anyway, but.... Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The PS chain lost only a tiny bit, because I don't think it can serve as an afterspike to ITSELF anymore. But that's still something.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pussyfooting it :), first time I heard that lol and I had to laugh like hell with it, my primary language isn't English so...
 * Yeah PvE got a boost, well only 2 professions, wich I disliked because they were weak and inferior, now i'll probably love them as much as the other professions :).
 * I don't play PvP atm and haven't played any in months so I can't speak about hexway, VoR and Palm Strike. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  04:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even if they run parasitic bond with it or whatever, they still can't use wastrel's worry with effectively, which is good. Hexway is a build where you take a bunch of people with a bunch of hexes and spam them like crazy on the enemy team, who can't do anything about it because hex removals are almost worthless if the enemy team has more than just a couple.  VoR and Lingering Curse were two of the most popular in the build, because Lingering Curse made healing extremely difficult and VoR is basically "haha you can't play the game" for ten seconds.  Palm Strike was just a skill that let you start off with a dual attack, usually a knockdown followed by six different conditions that don't make sense and 400 damage, most of it armor-ignoring and just barely under spirit bond.  The nerf isn't going to do much except prevent people finishing that combo with another use of palm strike.  And "pussyfooting" just means doing something weakly or hesitantly, rather than being bold.  These nerfs will help a little, but not nearly enough.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 07:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Palm Strike was powerful but it's already been nerfed once before this, and with the extra recharge increase it should be right back in line. VoR is now fairly anti-hexway and LC does at least require some energy management to use now, which is good given the PnH nerf, which was good given PnH was stupidly OP. 86.26.56.226 09:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PnH was stupidly overpowered but worthless against hexway teams. It was great if only one person was hexed, but anyone who's ever fought hexway will tell you it's never one person that's hexed, it's every single member of your team with a stack of 8 hexes only them, usually involving some foul combination of health gain inhibitors, punishment skills, straight degen, the odd cast time increaser, and a cover hex right on top just for the added "FUCK YOU!"  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 11:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

(reset indent to reply to first comment) Lol, though this update still allows necros to do the rit's job w/ spirits... :P
 * Yes but PnH was (and still is) equally powerful against stacks of hexes as against single ones. Yes it could only clean one person, but it would also keep that person clean for most of its recharge too. That meant you could cut out at least 1/8 of a hexway's power with that skill alone. Now I'm not saying that hexway isn't OP, but PnH was OP too. Nerfing key OP hexes, as they've now done (albiet perhaps not enough), is a much better solution than creating another OP skill to counter them which then has to be stapled to everyone's team since in order to overcome it, hexways had to bring so much AoE that anyone without it was even more doomed than before. 86.26.56.226 16:20, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

CoP
Just wanna clarify for maybe some other people that might have been confused just like me. I thought I needed to interrupt a skill and they needed to suffer from a mesmer hex in order to do the additional dmg and health degen, it does not need to interrupt a skill, if they have are only suffering from a mesmer hex monsters will take dmg and suffer from health degen. I am not sure if this is or isn't a bug tho. Qaletaqa Hania 03:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * : functionality changed to: "Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer Hex, that foe and all foes in the area take 25...50 damage and -3..5 Health degeneration for 10 seconds."
 * Heh, if it required an interrupt then it would be completely dead. It's still a decent skill for solo play. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, It would be completely dead. But it was just confusing to me and had to test it in solo play to see exactly how it works now. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  03:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It actually speeds up some stuff now with the degen :). [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  04:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * However it does now prevent it from being used multiple times by numerous people in the group, as the degen won't stack, effectively crippling cryway. Which personally i dont mind. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 13:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

yippie
Sad that they nuked some shit but better a dead skill then a imba one <3.Atleast they saw some problems.PS proly still is imba as fuck though Lilondra   *panda*  03:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ya PS will probably still be seen. its only another 3 second recharge and i'm sure you can survive that long before spiking a second person Daeheru 04:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but after the last update it was already a bit more back in line, and with this extra recharge I daresay it'll not be quite so popular, though still perfectly viable. Which is good, really. Whether they got the balance quite right remains to be seen, though. 86.26.56.226 09:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Another update
lol anet, catch something? -- euphoracle  |  talk  04:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, the player base caught everything that Anet's so called "QA team" missed. -Drakora 04:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Coolbeans. Noticed this during kurz rep farm, Olias was being a bitch.  --  euphoracle  |  talk  04:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Did they remove the sentence on the end of the Wells?
 * No. --  euphoracle  |  talk  04:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Xunlai Tournament Rewards
Many accounts between my own, friends, and other I've heard in GToB didn't receive reward points on this update. Will there be another update to reimburse those who should have gotten reward points that didn't? Magic   <font color="#0000EB">Talk  04:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "If you haven't received reward points after about 10 minutes, go submit a ticket to support. You can submit a report for multiple accounts in the same ticket, just be sure to provide information for all of the accounts" (somewhat close quote to)~ Gaile ~ Ryuu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png|18px]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 04:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dunno dude. I just received my 55 XTR points. Going back to another round of watching top guilds stay top while they pay me.--ShadowFog 04:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * [Edit] Thanks for the link Ryuu. ^^ Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  04:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Got my 100 points in D8...guess they are still processing. <font color="limegreen" size="2px">Dominator <font color="mediumblue" size="1px">Matrix  04:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Only got my points on 1 out of 4 accounts >< Submitted Support ticket right away 83.163.0.32 05:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1/6 Accounts of mine recevied rewards. Damn it! Badde 08:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 0/3 :( Will it be repaired? I want my rps!(Titus andronicus 08:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC))
 * I did'nt get it too 0/2... --Ritualist-tango-icon-200.png Requiem  12:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

[ri] I got the points on all 3 of my accounts. Though something else is weird. I gave in the same predictions on all 3 accounts and they all got different points (30, 80 & 105). So even though i got points i am not sure if i got the right ones or not :P - 84.217.123.228 13:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Disconnecting in Relationship to Update #2
It seems that a lot of people have been disconnecting a lot. I have disconnected about four times in ~<5 minutes. I wonder if it has any relationship to the new update (the second one), or if it is just mere coincidence? <font color="Black">-- § <font color="Red">Lacky <font color="Black">§   Talk 05:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah, killed my ha run ...134.109.89.1 05:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm getting a lot of "Network Errors" myself. @Lacky: Tux is FTW! :D Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  06:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is really annoying. They keep happening non-stop. @Magic: Cheers! <font color="Black">-- § <font color="Red">Lacky <font color="Black">§  [[Image:User_Lacky_sig.png|My Contributions]] Talk 06:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Incoming
They almost made paras seriously imba. Read the description for "Incoming!" Smackban 06:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

So, Gwen is now able to catch spikes as well? 82.75.192.76 06:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good update by the way. 82.75.192.76 06:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Signet of Creation
Revert please, the new cast times make this a waste of a slot. Also it was part of a ritualist minion bombing build.--98.238.169.189 06:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to admit I personally feel the skill balance was a great big bunch of awesome! However I'm a bit confused by the change to this signet, I'm not objecting to it I just don't understand the purpose behind it. All spirits have been reduced to a 1 second or under cast time, thus a signet that allows 3 of them to be cast instantly in PvE just doesn't seem needed. Maybe if it recharged them instantly instead of cast them instantly but as it stands this signet seems somewhat pointless. However this aside I still think this is one of the best skill updates we've had in a long time. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 10:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if the signet had that change for PvP(in a balanced way), I would have understood it. That might explain the change to signet of binding(going around the problem)... Shelter just went to crap again. --ShadowFog 12:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah that skill now sucks big time. :D --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're forgetting one little thing. Ritualist's aren't the only ones with rituals. Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  21:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "For 5...25...30 seconds, your next 1...3...3 Binding Rituals cast instantly." Rangers have Nature Rituals :( --98.238.169.189 22:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Copied from my post on the Signet of Creation talk page:


 * "Put me down in the category of thinking this skill is largely pointless with the Ritualist buffs. While I understand that 0.75 can still be interrupted by AI enemies, most smart Ritualists will still put their spirits down BEFORE starting combat anyway, so it's largely a non-issue. Personally, I'd rather see Signet of Creation be reworked to something like:


 * "For 30 seconds, your next 1...3 Binding or Nature Rituals cost 1...15 less energy (minimum 1 energy)."


 * This would make it a perfect e-management skill for Spirit Summoners who don't necessarily want to dip into Channeling Magic for Spirit Siphon, and since it only works on Binding Rituals (and is in Spawning Power), there's no risk of it being abused by other professions." - Zaxares 07:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

chage discription
"Find Their Weakness!": "For 5...17...20 seconds, the next time target ally USE AND ATTACK SKILL, that ally inflicts a Deep Wound and the next attack does 5..50 additional damage" 89.180.128.234 09:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * cool --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? this way casters can use it too --Ritualist-tango-icon-200.png Requiem  12:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow
This was a pretty major change, and there's really too much of it to see exactly how much of it is good (at least in PvE). Certainly the ritualist changes seem pretty drastic, along with one or two other buffs. For the most part I would say that what they did in PvP was right, though, although I could wish some of those paragon changes which were PvE only were also changed in PvP (namely, "Brace Yourself!", Signet of Return, "Never Give Up!" and maybe "Never Surrender!", Anthem of Disruption, "Can't Touch This!" and Bladeturn Refrain. Ofc some of the others would probably be imba). I also liked the ritualist PvP changes, though we shall have to wait and see whether it was too much, too little or just right - certainly a lot of ritualist skills were popular but rits themselves were rarely taken, so they've certainly got the right idea. Glad to see some of the key hexes got toned down a bit too, though this will likely not be enough to keep hexway in check now that PnH has got nerfed (though the PnH was definately a good thing, imo). 86.26.56.226 09:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's nice to see the community liking an update for a change. Here's to hoping we'll get more of these updates! Gj Anet! 145.94.74.23 10:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PvE Lovin' for Goons that doesn't require being a /War with S.Y.? ...i came -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 10:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah well, we can nitpick about some changes but on the whole I think this was a good thing. OK, "We Shall Return!" is imba now and spirits cast perhaps a little too fast, but still, better that than reeeeeaaaaallyyyy slooooooooow... 86.26.56.226 15:33, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Paragons now have INSTANT REZ in PvE?
That's... Another incredibly good reason to play imbagon! Paddymew 10:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And a good reason to avoid the desolation... --<font color="Black">Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 11:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Frozen soil always goes with me to the desolation :P --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 12:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Big ugly worms always swallow me in desolation. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this about We Shall Return? Because the page for We Shall Return indicates that it bypasses frozen soil, so Frozen Soil won't help much. :) Freedom Bound 12:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Killing them would help. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Goes to show how much attention I pay to skill updates. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 12:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Defenetely not as much as you do to banning me. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  15:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dont forget the downside... 25 energy is ruff MrPaladin talk 18:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Overbuff.. :S This makes Light of Dwayna useless. x.x Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  18:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Killing them would help" <- yes, but having three or four Cavaliers in one group was horrible and is now even worse.. poke | talk 19:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Time to bring Vocal Minority on a hero, which I can honestly say, I've never bothered to bring before. Freedom Bound 19:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now you need to actually adapt your heroes to the area sometimes, thats good. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:30, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Like PVE wasn't easy enough already.
Now some viable non-abusable skills for PvP please.  SniperFox  11:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. They went around the problem... again.--ShadowFog 12:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * abusable skills are fun no? --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What problem are you referring to?<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 16:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Sins: increase the effectiveness of Spawning Power, make Ritualist spirits viable in PvE, and increase the effectiveness of Paragons in PvE... . And this Parapragh:Other than a few niche builds, the Ritualist and Paragon have had trouble finding a place in PvE. The basic concepts of these professions make them very strong in PvP and over the course of balancing them for competitive play, they've become underpowered or awkward to use in PvE.@Igor:"Abusable"?--ShadowFog 17:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So your saying it's a problem that they only tried to make the rit more balanced in PvP and not the Paragon?<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 06:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't PvP but one complaint I keep hearing is that they're Imba in GvG b/c they get unlimited energy from leadership, while being the worst possible teammates in 4v4. IS that true?  If so, then maybe they weren't adjusted in PvP yet b/c leadership would have to be reworked? -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 09:17, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

We want...
Ursan Back...Please 89.180.128.234 11:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Bring Ursan back...Pretty PleaseMystiLefemEle 12:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * no --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 20:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you *so* much for this update !! My ritualist is crying with joy, and so am I ToT Thank you, and thank you again !!! 213.166.195.100 11:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I almost re-installed guild wars. :p Finally something new for pve. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Aura of the Lich
I've been running a hero MM for a while now that bombs... I've noticed a funcinality change where he is more likly to cast this spell on hiis own outside of combat (especially if he has no minions)... previously I was forcing him to use the spell as soon as we zoned and occasionally out of combat... but now he manages it well enough on his own (tho I wish he would keep it up by default) MrPaladin talk 11:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Palm Strike and Spawning Power
It was already sad that sins had only one (1) viable build in PvP. Now they have none (0), except for the lame hammer one that I refuse to play. Assassins are in a bad need for a huge buff, making Critical Agility PvP as well kind of buff. Palm Strike needed a buff not a nerf, like most other sin skills. Spawing Power really needed a buff, instead they nerf Rits in PvP by forcing them to invest in the attribute to have weapon spells with the same effectiveness as before. Who gives a nickel about PvE changes? Most random update ever... Dionyssios 12:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ummm there are thousands upon thousands who "give a nickel about PvE changes". If you read the rest of the comments on this page I think you will find yourself in the minority. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 12:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Forcing Rt's to be Rt's while making non Rt's not as good as Rt's at being Rt's seems good to me... Sins are not useless... you just need to be smarter instead of using the "this build 1-on-1's everything out there" MrPaladin talk 12:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like palm strike nerf, now everyone cast start using my awesome shove spiker. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No one will run shove on a sin because it's fucking retarded. oh wait, you're retarded so nvm... btw wastrel's collapse says "hi". --217.210.170.30 16:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I'm one of the ones who doesn't give a nickel about PvP changes and only cares about PvE changes, so I'm pretty darn pleased. ^^ Green Arrow 13:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm one of those who "give a nickel about PvE changes" when they are good. Nerfing imba PvE builds to promote new imba PvE builds..., you think they do that to counter monotony and boredom? Maybe. Palm Strike was not overpowered, everyone played that ONLY because there was NO OTHER build worth playing, period. I was fed up playing the same build over and over myself. Give us other builds, and fast. The update to Spawning Power would be good if they left weapon spells as they were and added "50% chance to fail if SP 4 or less" for example. Dionyssios 12:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Perma cripple and ability to use 3 dual attacks in the same chain, for 5e and on an almost non-existent cooldown, is what we call "overpowered." - Auron 13:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with you, Auron. As much as I loved my Palm Strike PvE build, I'll be the first to admit it was insanely overpowered (Palm Strike + Horns of the Ox, Palm Strike + Twisting Fangs, Palm Strike + Critical Strike, ded.  Wash, rinse, repeat.), but after seeing the new recharge time in action (yay, Fenrir), it's more noticeable than I thought it would be.  I didn't think a couple extra seconds would make a difference, but when I'm able to get an entire other chain off in the recharge time, it puts the nerf into a whole new perspective.  It's no longer overpowered, and still usable, but it no longer allows for random button mashing.  I actually rather like the new Palm Strike, and it's still viable in PvP.  Just my two cents, ymmv.  Elysea  [[Image:User_Elysea_ElyseaSignatureImage.jpg|19px]] 14:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I know you call that overpowered, but it is nothing next to a warrior's 126 armour (sentinel's+shield+shield modifier) with 13 armour penetration and practically no need for energy, so sins will simply be extinct in PvP... Dionyssios 13:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Warriors, unlike sins, require skill to play. Warriors can't just mash 1-2-3-4-5-6 and get kills. Therefore, they are "balanced," even though their numbers are higher than assassins. As soon as assassins get something like Frenzy as a cornerstone to their class (i.e., a huge-risk, huge-reward skill), ANet will be safe giving them powerful things. Until then, they need to be kept dumbed down so retards can't just buttonmash and make big numbers appear on their screen. - Auron 13:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dionyssios, it's time you start playing the game and make your own builds, I have seen dozens of different assassin builds without PS in it before the nerf, so why do you think PS is the only skill that matters? It's like they took away the Nuclear Bomb, ow wait that would be a good thing, and so is like the PS nerf. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  14:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The 1-2-3-4-5-6 restriction is one of the downsides of the sin profession, along with the fact they take much more damage than a frenzied warrior. Palm Strike was a way to pass by this restriction. They need new and more ways to do that. As for skill, assassin is rocket science if you compare to warrior, and more so after each of the dozens nerfs. Good teams don't even bother to use a cancel stance on their primals. And I've been playing the game for several years now, don't care much to play the same eviscerate build I played on my warrior 4 years ago: needs no skill at all anymore, it's boring. And they did not take away the nuclear bomb, even Pakistan has it. Dionyssios 14:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You made me laugh by saying "And they did not take away the nuclear bomb, even Pakistan has it" I know they didn't, and i'm not worried about Pakistan, i'm more worried about North Korea. Anyway, you didn't get that nuclear bomb hint huh? or did you not read the whole sentence? [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  15:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I really enjoyed the bit where you said assassins take skill, I mean quite soon those 1 2 3 4 5 6 buttons may break! Then you might have to click the 6 skills in a row to do a sin chain! Frosty 15:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Clicking skill icons ftw. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  15:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dionyssios if you are trying to bypass sin limitations that make them play more like a warrior then play a warrior. Sins are not harder to play than warriors, so you might learn some stuff.  They need a valid role that isn't imba.  Infinte knockdown chains combined with perma cripple is imba it makes sins the anti-kite.  Go suggest a valid role for ANet to develop on the sin, don't complain that their most OP skill just got nerfed bcs it's OP.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 16:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

BB sin <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  17:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, cause Warrior's Endurance bars took much skill to use. /sarcasm --98.238.169.189 22:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

and god knows that wasn't nerfed. /sarcasm --67.70.68.195 22:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "along with the fact they take much more damage than a frenzied warrior"... right, so a sin takes more damage than a war taking double damage? A war with 80 + 20 armour vs physical (and + 20 vs elemental only if s/he has 13+ Strength) takes half as much damage as a char with 60 armour, so an equal amount when frenzying. Sins have 70 armour so take less than that. Yes I know wars can use shields, but not if they're using hammers. Plus, Frenzy doubles armour-ignoring damage (e.g. Empathy). A warrior's armour helps him/her not a whit against degen, either. Either way it's not going to be "much more". Yes sins are a lot squishier than wars but that doesn't mean they should get OP killing skills to compensate. PS is still useable now, you just can't spam it with Death Blossom for powerful armour-ignoring damage (which incidentally does full damage to even a warrior) in between even more powerful KD spikes. 86.26.56.226 15:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Trouble with Tourny Points (for the thousandth time)
Have they addressed why we're not getting tourny points yet? 75.61.32.166
 * I don't know, but I haven't gotten mine. Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:04, 19 June 2009  (UTC)
 * Yes, they have. Kind of. It's just your basic "issue", one that they're looking into. They're encouraging anyone with the issue to contact support. They have promised that everyone will get their TRPs. Freedom Bound 14:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to submit ANOTHER ticket? God damn. This is the 3rd update in a row that's required me to submit a support ticket. Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:08, 19 June 2009  (UTC)
 * Maybe they just like hearing from you? It probably gets kind of lonely in . Freedom Bound 14:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess so....what other excuse could there be? That they have a glitched system that they continue to not fix? No, surely not.... Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:35, 19 June 2009  (UTC)
 * Well, I think it would technically be a new glitch, since it's supposedly a new system that they put in place with the Xunlai website upgrade. Which, I guess is worse? Freedom Bound 14:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * si, it's worse. Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:53, 19 June 2009  (UTC)

I'm Impressed

 * While the update for ritualists was made PvE only, it's still something and I'm thankful that Anet has finally realized the sluggish nature of ritualists in this game. Hopefully those changes can also be adapted to PvP as well but we'll cross that road when we get there. Thanks ANET for helping us ! --Lancy1214 14:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe lower the casting time of rituals in PvP to 2-4 seconds instead of 3-5 seconds. It would still allow for plenty of interupts. I know I don't like spending the equivalent time to a ressurection spell to raise one spirit that will likely just get taken out quickly anyway, compared to the many elementalist nukes that are 2 second casts. Overall very nice update, I was quite pleased.Grikitis 15:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I know Lancy and Falconeye have been pushing for this for ages and I definately agree with them that spirits are too slow and useless. I would have liked to see some cast time reductions in PvP too, but that said I would also have liked spirits not to become faster than most spells, it seems too much tbh (especially with Signet of Creation doing what it does now). Still, it's better than leaving them as they were. 86.26.56.226 15:18, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Normal Mode?
Mesmer.. 13 fast casting.. 3/4 - 2 sec spells. A small group of 8 different enemies (Awakened Giants and those Acolytes) just interupped 15 out of 18 or so casts. I cast them at different intervals. Is it just me or did AI in general become "better"? -- <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 18:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * iirc, the giants have choking gas, so that could be it. --67.240.83.137 18:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah.. I didn't see it everywhere. But it wasn't only the choking gas - cry of frustration and others too. Im guessing coincidence.. Meh, who am I to "complain" about normal mode ;-) --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu  (talk) 20:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Holy F***k
Why did this take so awful long to do The Right Thing? We all told you to do this 6 months ago. Unfortunatly I don't play GW for several months now and I won't return either. Too late. --82.83.58.20 18:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * However...you do check the wiki often enough to reply to the update on the same day 83.163.0.32 19:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Since when did "fuck" have 5 letters in it?-- [[Image:User_Vanguard_VanguardLogo.png|19px]] anguard  19:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol--98.238.169.189 20:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Holy Frack? 76.164.111.57 01:23, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

The following AI updates apply to Heroes and Hard Mode NPCs.
Am I the only one who can see this text? Backsword 20:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No. Freedom Bound 20:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the double post, but I think I know what you're referring to. The note that says, "Ray of Judgment scatters heroes in both normal and hard mode. In hard mode, all NPCs will scatter from it." The reason why it's been put there is that the line for that particular change reads, "Heroes are more likely to scatter appropriately when affected by Ray of Judgment." I agree with you that the section heading should override the individual lines from a logical perspective, but I think that unless we can confirm that every one of the changes that is listed for heroes also impacts hard mode NPCs, we should leave it there, to clarify the situation for people that are less likely to read those lines together and understand the implication. It's just a poorly written update summary from that perspective. Freedom Bound 20:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We can confirm that. Joe has specifically stated that there is one single ai used by all those NPCs. ~Which is one more ai routine than I'd excpect, but clear as it can be. Backsword 13:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So, you want to change the note so that it says something like "Although the updates to the AI indicates Heroes, as the section header notes, Heroes and Hard Mode NPCs take advantage of the updated AI." Or just take it out altogether? I think people will still be confused if we don't have some type of note. Freedom Bound 13:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

My Thoughts
Instead of voicing my opinion in the every growing topics I'll just stick them all in one spot. IMO, the new ritualist spirit cast times are retarded. No, I was never a fan of the 3-5 second cast time.. but making them an instant cast is over doing it. All casters have to worry about interruptions.. or at least.. they did until now. Spirits should at least have a CT of 1 and the more bigger spirits [Disenchantment, Displacement, Shadowsong, etc etc] should have a 1.5-2 CTs. Preservation still need a buff to fix its "target random" healing. It targets like sliver armor sticking to only a few allies due to range. Union still needs a buff or a function change. As to weapon spells.. I understand the "why" but I still think it's kind of dumb. It didn't change to much but I guess if you level up spawning power, it was more of a buff then a nerf. On to Paragons.. I always saw them as the leaders of the battle but now I'm beginning to wonder. :S "Brace Yourself!" doesn't make any sense to me. If you actually place yourself into a character presence and fought in a battle.. if a paragon yelled out "Brace Yourself!" I could understand the anti-knock down.. but where does the damage come from? Did you accidentally swing your sword around when you were bracing yourself and happen to strike all foes in a 360 degree turn? xD "Incoming!" is beyond stupid. It's icon is about dodging projectiles.. and yet it's a speed boost w/ a heal. Wtf's a bit much? Blazing Finale.. depending on how many paragons are on the team.. do you really need a weapon? You could run around and burn things to death. [I'll link to this again in a sec.] Bladeturn Refrain.. grats.. if PvE wasn't easy enough.. you've just lowered the mental age of the user who play GW.. Now it's so easy preschoolers can do it! Yippee!! "The Power Is Yours" has such a crappy effect but it becoming the key to many builds. A 4adr should that lasts for only 3 seconds.. You could keep Bladeturn as a constant and since the shout applies to everyone you're set all foes in the area a blaze. :S Lastly, to quote me from above, "I always saw them as the leaders of the battle but now I'm beginning to wonder". "We Shall Return!" You've already killed monks. I don't know if you've all noticed but you don't see many healing/prot monks looking for groups to hunt or for missions.. Prophecies has been out now for over 4 years and you destroyed a skill that looked so cool. Light of Dwayna and Lively Was Naomie were some of the coolest but mostly unused party resurrecting skills in the game. @ 25e, 4ct, 20r it rez'd all allies in the area for 25%hp/0%mp. Now, you've made the god-like "We Shall Return!" No Ct, 25e, 20r and it bring back everyone in earshot at up to 50%hp/20%mp. GG on screwing things over. You worry about balancing professions out by themselves. Try balancing them out as a whole. Long ago, professions each had a purpose.. each one specialized at a specific goal, used specific conditions, and did something other professions couldn't do. Now everything is just blended all together. The game is starting to look like Diablo II and WoW every day. And with the lag of the current patch kicking people off the server every 5-30 minutes.. people can't get any play time in. In other words.. GG Arena.net. You've manages to remove the glory of the game. But be happy, you've manage to enter my shit list. Hopefully updates in the future can restore the greatness of this legendary game. You've got the team to do it. :S ''[Edit: Couple of quick notes.. these are more or less the biggies that set me off. There's a few other things but I just didn't feel like adding them and I stayed completely off the PvP stuff because I don't generally play PvP.*] In the words of Johnny from Fantastic 4.. but with a sarcastic negative twist.. "Flame On!" Magic  <font color="#0000EB">Talk  21:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * TL;DR -- 84.245.20.230 21:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * it's either this or they buff 40 shitty elites and completely break the game, I would take this anyday. Frosty 21:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * When all else fails, criticize GW skills or mechanics for lack of realism. Yeah, no one (except maybe Shard) really cares.
 * In other news, no one ever used Lively Was or Light of Dwayna because they're utter garbage and always have been. Complaining about them being even more useless now is laughable.
 * Lastly, about zero people played PvE rits before this, other than VwK farm builds. There was just no point, unless you really loved Ritualists or was one of those weird players who played every profession just because. For Paragons, if you weren't playing imbagon you were equally out of luck. So now ANet has made some pretty aggressive changes to slap back at the PvE meta that left these two classes in the dust. You and I might understand that rits and paras were never underpowered in PvE, but the general pve playerbase didn't want them (imbagons again being an exception). And since ANet has to cater to the lowest common denominator, well...this is what happens. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 23:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * BECAUSE PVE BALANCE IS SRS BSNS Pika Fan 00:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, they do outnumber PvPers by like 15::1. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 00:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All casters have to worry about interruptions... the cpu is a master of interruption. .25 still wins over .75 and 1 second, they still interrupt and in chains too, you still have to worry about the cpu. Union still needs a buff... not only Union, thanks to the change to Signet of Binding, Communing has gone to deeper hole in the crapper and yes Spawning Power was changed so only rits the have the same benefits as other did before this nerfdate. And dood, try to create different sections or just participate in sections already made. You are not helping anyone nor the dev team with a wall of text. There are already some sections to bitch about the Rit and Paragon.--ShadowFog 01:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * First off, it's not just criticism. If you want me to expand on anything or would like to know how I'd fix it, then ask. I'm not just going to point things out and say "this is wrong" and then just walk away. As to the comment about realism, there's a lot more people out there that care about it then you think. It's one of the main things that has set this game apart from other in the past. On another note, No skill is ever useless. I've used both Lively Was Naomei and Light of Dwayna on various occasions. Due to Lively's duration it can be synergised with both Channeling and Restoration Magics. Light of Dwayna is actually used more then you realized by the effect of a Scroll of Resurrection. And to add a comment to both of these skills, there have been many situations during my game play where people bunch up together and die make them quite effect, especially if a monk was making use of the older "We Shall Return!" skill. Lively was actually run to use since if you were holding it and died it rez'd you and the rest of your party that bunched up on you. I will say you are correct that few people played Ritualist.. at least, in other campaigns. I see them quite often throughout Factions. Btw, I'd like to point out, non-spirit builds do work and can do massive damage. My rit uses an infusion of Death Magic and Channeling as well as the elite Clamor of Souls yielding a lot of AoE damage. Last, Paragons are better then you think. You can easily mix Command and Spear masteries together to make an effective build. But, if you want to go as a support para, a mix of Command and Motivation [with a bit in leadership for energy control] was possible and worked quite well. Screw cookie cutter builds. I don't see why people use them. Builds should always change due to the circumstances they are used in. Thought one might work for many things, most builds can be tuned to its environment to become better. My advise to you, learn how to combine skills better. You can manipulate some skills in order to achieve a different effect. [Btw, hope I didn't come off as an ass. I don't know you Vili but I do know of you. :) | Thank god for FF's spell checker.. to bad I didn't use it on my first post.. guess I'll have to go back later. xD] Btw, I'm pretty sure I have most if not all templates saved if you'd like to see an example of those stated above.


 * [Update was made while writing.. so..] @Shadowfog: The computer doesn't track what skills you are using and when so the interrupt rate would be way less compared to other professions getting interrupted. Also, I'd rather keep all my idea's in one spot instead of arguing the same thing in three different spot. As to my "big wall of text", I like to express what I have to say. If you don't like my "big wall of text" then all I can say is "I'm sorry" as well as "that's tough." Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  01:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * ....I think you completely missed the part where I agree with you and am fully aware that rits and paras are fine in pve without cookie cutter builds, I play them myself to great success >.>
 * Other than that, my mentality is that if you're dying enough that you "need" to use one of the AoE resurrection skills, then you're doing something wrong, either because you're just bad or because you were ill prepared. I don't even carry resurrection skills in easy mode most times. Obviously in vanquishing, party wipes can happen and are quite acceptable. But even in such case, I think it's much better to take, say, Unyielding Aura...especially since poor/weak resurrections are an infamous trigger for entire wipes. (e.g. monks using rebirth mid-battle) And even with "We Shall Return!", Light of Dwayna is a long cast time, high energy res, and you're using a poor secondary... so you can't use it mid-battle, you have to wait for near-wipes instead of trying to prevent them. I don't like that.
 * There are long-lasting non-elite Item Spells in all three of the Ritualist lines. I don't like Lively Was because of its long cast time and recharge, and lack of inherent effect...Item spells make you lose the bonus of your weapon sets, so for that big a sacrifice I may as well get something useful back, even if it is the piddly bonuses from Mighty Was Vorizun. The "it resses you if you die" thing is kind of...not helpful in most situations I can think of. Cast Death Nova on yourself and then be an hero? :\
 * Finally, I really don't think you can compare a res scroll with Light of Dwayna. Scrolls don't care what profession you are, do not eat up a skill slot, are activated ~instantly, and don't "recharge" if you have more than one...Besides, I'm pretty sure they aren't used nearly as much as the other cons. Since, you know, with full cons up the party shouldn't be wiping anyway. :\ Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 06:51, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you completely missed the part where I agree with you Yes.. I most certainly did. xD And to clarify I don't use the AoE res spells often but I said I've used them on various occasions. Btw, LoD doesn't have that long of a cast time. It's set to 4 seconds which is the norm for most monk rez skills. As to the energy to cast it.. needs a tweak. xD Also, as to a poor choice of a secondary, I guess it depends on how you run a monk. I almost never use skills of other professions on my monk. Generally when I do it's Blood Ritual for caster support.
 * And you got me on the Lively Was Naomie. I still say it could be useful depending on what you were doing. For some reason I was thinking it was one of the longer lasting item spells. The original point though was that "We Shall Return!" is overpowered compared to other forms of rez's. Monks have been coined as the healers and resurrecter's of the game and giving a massive res shout with no CT just seems to be overdoing it. :S Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  09:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, "WSR!" is OP, and the cast times on Binding Rituals are now a bit too fast, but really the majority of things in the update were on the right track - certainly the PvP stuff was, and apart from overdoing it with some things the PvE stuff wasn't that bad either. Don't get worked up over it. Btw try taking Channeling, a Warrior stance or some Shadow Arts stuff over Blood Ritual, to die less. 86.26.56.226 15:49, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * O.o I never said my monk or myself died. Magic  [[Image:User_Magic_Signature_Ico.jpg]] <font color="#0000EB">Talk  20:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

TRANSLATION NEEDED
I need a translation of this update FAST - kthks <3
 * No you don't. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Shard, remember that one time you did that one translation of that one update man? Shit was so cash. I was just wondering if you could do it like 50 times over and have it be repeated by anons with no sense of humor.  That would be great.  68.58.91.59 07:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but tbh this wasn't a bad update (and Shard only really does sarcasm and stuff). All that happened is Rits and Pars got made really good in PvE, a few things that needed it got slightly nerfed in PvP, and everyone but Rits is now bad at trying to be Rits. 86.26.56.226 15:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yay heroes are even more broken
"Heroes will only use Chest Thumper against foes that are suffering from Cracked Armor."
 * Lol not only do heroes know the exact amount of time remaining on the condition they apply, but they also know which exactly which condition the gray triangle is. Why don't they just make it hero vs hero? Oh wait thats what it's called. -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 07:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They're removing heroes from HA and GvG, so I suggest you shut your mouth. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When that day comes, i'll be happy to -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 08:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So help speed it up. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They might aswell get people actually playing PvP, oh wait, anet doesn't give a shit about PvP.  SniperFox [[Image:User_SniperFox_IconSmall.gif]] 14:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you look closely you can actually see which condition is which based off the visual effect, though admittedly CA looks like Weakness iirc. However, players will now when they or their team has just applied CA so heroes knowing all the time isn't going to help them that much, and considering the stupid things they do sometimes it's not really that big of a deal tbh. As for replacing heroes with henchmen, I'm not so sure that's gonna solve the problem, as it just means that you won't have anywhere near as much choice over what hero build to take (kinda defeating the point of having heroes) but depending on what bars they have the henchmen could be just as broken (hey, let's ban heroes but make a Tease henchman!). And if those bars aren't the OP ones, nobody will take them defeating the point of them being there. I appreciate that heroes often cause problems, but tbh removing them from HA and GvG seems like a bit of a cheap solution. 86.26.56.226 15:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Humans are only going to use chest thumper against people they put cracked armor on, so what's your point? There's a point where blind and mindless anet hating gets annoying and degenerate. And I had actually some hope that you would be objective even when criticizing anet, and not bashing anet just for the sake of it. Pika Fan 15:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My point exactly. Maybe this gives heroes a slight advantage the humans don't have, but tbh it's really not going to make that big a difference. I mean how often do people run Paragon heroes with Chest Thumper anyway? Certainly not in PvP, which is really the only place this would matter. It's not like it's going to have really any noticeable impact on the game. 86.26.56.226 15:45, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Rspike paragons tbh. They won't only spike with DW, they'll spam it on everything that Sundering Weapon hits. =o  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  17:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but Rspike paragon heroes? 86.26.56.226 12:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Noooooo no more hero love. :( --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">flame my shove sin bar!  12:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Economy
We all know the economy of this game is fuucked up as hell. The Xunlai Tournament fuucks it up even wors. I would suggest an update that would make the economic a little better, no more weapon, crafting material, gold (money) and any other items (consumable, dye, etc) drop, you can get weapons from zaishen chest, gold from quests, and any other stuff from traders. This game is getting really, and I mean really old, make it interesting by puting an end to farms, and making "expensive things expensive" (like FoW armour, etc.). 213.233.92.218 11:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That is probably the worst suggestion I have heard in my life. An MMO without drops? What's that supposed to be? And do you have any idea how hard that would make the game for new players? I mean, maybe farming is a problem and maybe it isn't, but way to solve the Gordian Knot by hacking right through it without any consideration for the consequences. Absolutely not. I hope that was sarcastic. Green Arrow 14:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This isn't Runescape and there's no chat filter. You don't have to spell the F word with 2 u's --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.43.62.68 (talk).

Scatter or no?
So does RoJ cause scatter or not? It does say "NPCs" and heroes, and NPCs means monsters...so that would seem to make sense. People testing it seem to get drastically different answers, ranging from one of my in-game friends (OMG! RoJ causes scatter now! this game is RUINED FOREVER!) to other people who claim it doesn't cause any scatter at all. So...what is it? I know it scatters NPCs in JQ and it scatters heroes and henchmen definitely but I dunno about outside that. Green Arrow 13:01, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I read from somewhere that enemies in PvE will only flee from it in HM. Mediggo 13:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought too, and I think most people are saying that, but Hong (who I hope to get in here) is claiming that it doesn't do that either. Green Arrow 13:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmed, RoJ causes scatter in Hard Mode.
 * Observed multiple instances of Charr fleeing the AoE in Rragar's Menagerie, Hard Mode.
 * Have not tested (and do not plan to test) Normal Mode. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In Normal Mode, they will scatter, but will wait until the fourth pulse to begin scattering unless there's another DoTAoE affecting them already. So, technically they'll scatter, but usually they get hit by all 5 pulses anyway.  This also applies to PvP NPCs, unfortunately.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 12:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've seen it scatter now in JQ. It's difficult to notice, since they wait until the last moment before they run. I used it in several HM missions where the monsters basically sat it out. -- Hong 10:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)