User talk:Greener/Archive

Stop changing the uppercase to lowercase. That's how it is in-game. — piper doesn't talk 21:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Ummmm thanks...
I didn't catch that there were two updates and restored to the wrong one. Thanks for catching it. (I had just noticed but you fixed it before I had a chance to.) --Max 2 19:07, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, np. Figured you would have seen it quickly, too. G R E E N E R  20:13, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Your Sandbox Link
plz refrain from using the public sandbox link -its there to give info on the uses of sandboxes although it is allowed to use it, i would suggest moving your stuff/starting stuff here thats where most ppl put stuff tbh, just create the page and start using it :) thx! -- Fallen Scythe    ( talk ) 21:19, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Neat, thanks! G R E E N E R  00:28, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Please don't touch things that are in my sandbox or mark them for deletion. You could have messed up stuff I was working really hard on. Thank you for understanding. - Tesla  04:32, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * My sincerest apologies, I did not mean to interfere. I just saw the link Sandbox/notm2010/Other Items which is in the mainspace, and figured that it was a test page. Much as Scythe, above, told me to create my own sandbox section, perhaps you should move the link to your userspace. Next time, I'll wait longer before marking it for deletion. G R E E N E R  08:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh? I put it in the main section? Really now? I thought for sure it was under my name and such. Seems I've made a few mistakes lately. Earlier it was I accidentally made a sandbox page under my npc. You are right though! I will need to move it. Thank you for explaining though! Sorry for the misunderstand! - Tesla  23:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I've gone and put discussion pages in the mainspace and put my feedback there ages ago, too; nothing one can do but laugh. I figure I'll aim to put my guild's page somewhere under Prince Rurik, and see who notices. G R E E N E R  00:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah... It seems like lately I have made quiet a few mistakes. I blame it on being tired and working on a beauty pageant, plus what I was working on. Thanks again for telling me about that wrong page I made. - Tesla  01:40, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey,
I meant you no disrespect, and alas you fell into the middle of the fire so you I owe an apology to, those others have been harassing me on various posts, where I have been just trying to be heard, thank you for your effort and that page looked nice, I just am too new to the wiki to be able to learn while I try to continue it, and sadly, I have no desire to do so now that I have been harassed into submission,Rogueonion 03:51, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I take no offence, I have tougher skin than that. I know that we all get our hackles up, and we don't always act in the most rational or well-thought-out of ways. Do not take what happened as a defeat. You have a desire to have your idea heard in an attempt to improve a game that you love. That single idea is shared by many on this wiki. Please, if you could, take the time to read what both Wyn and I have said about the Feedback option. It is what Anet has set up so that it CAN hear from people like you.
 * Thank you for coming onto this wiki, and thank you for saying what you have said, here. I respect that. I do hope you continue to stay on this wiki, you just had a rockier start than most. Take care! G R E E N E R  03:56, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno, I am not so eloquent as most of the people here, thoughts come slower to me, this is not to say that I am lacking intelligence, it is just harder for me to express the things I need to express, and when people start spamming my thoughts, it really jacks with my thought process, besides which, I had not realized they were watching for my posts, they have effectively posted on almost everything I have touched on in the last 24 hours or so, and if that is not harassment, or trolling, I do not know what is, and really, I do not even care whether guild wars uses my ideas or not, I just wanted them to know that there is a HUGE percentage of players, who do NOT post on the wiki for just the reasons I have encountered, so they tend to get a skewed view of the reality of what their updates actually do. I am going to take a break for now, I really do not know enough about using the wiki to stay, and with the welcome I have received, I am not certain I wish to put the effort into learning about it, I also am not certain I will waste my money on any more of ArenaNet's products based upon this update and the last month of trying to be heard has been treated, I apologize for this wall-0-text But I just cannot figure out how some of you are posting the way you are posting, the directions give me a headache, and I am completely lost. I might post here and there, but as far as taking on a project like the one I planed screw it, it will just get ruined by some self-righteous person who will wall post to cancel anything I have to say. Rogueonion 04:04, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You're posting just fine, and yes, editing on a wiki is STILL something I scratch my head over. As for needing time to edit without interference, you're exactly like me. The number of times I need to write/re-write/re-think/(hopefully not scrap) ideas is sometimes embarrassing. Take the day off of editing here, and come back when you're recharged. I'm off to make some tea, myself. Oh, and as for the numerous suggestions, yes, looking back I see that we perhaps overloaded you, sorry. Come back here any time with questions, and I'll try to give you some step-by-step stuff, like what I need. G R E E N E R  04:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Grateful for your understanding and your help. This I will do, Rogueonion 04:13, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The secret to not getting trolled is to think about your ideas/thoughts before putting them on a public website. If you think something you're about to say will get you "harassed," then it probably will. Asking to not be trolled on the internet is like asking Fox News to air actual news. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 22:19, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Reading his last post, Rogueonion has to be a dude. he has no idea what a period is. -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 07:18, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL Rogueonion 10:27, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I have decided that I cannot hold my tongue hah. you said above that if I thought about things people wouldnt troll me, But would not the better recourse be, to JUST NOT TROLL AT ALL? Rogueonion 04:32, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Asking trolls not to troll is like asking dogs not to lick themselves. It's great in theory, but you're a fool for thinking it will ever happen. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:57, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Rob Sheffield: "So Simon, you married a super model, doesn't that perpetuate the stereotype?
 * Simon Le Bon: "No, rock stars marry models for the same reasons dogs lick their balls...because they can."-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 06:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL@yasmin, Shard leave me alone. You are just trying to justify why you troll and I really have no interest. Get a life. Rogueonion 09:45, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright folks, enough. Rogue, Shard may have an abrasive side to him, but the gist of what he's saying is true. Rather than challenging and confronting someone you think of as a troll, choose to ignore them instead. Yasmin, I'm always a fan of random trivia, thanks. Adrin, good eye. Shard, out of sheer curiosity, if you can lick yourself, why are you spending any time at all on the internet? Et c'est fini. G R E E N E R  16:37, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You still don't get it do you. Comments like that are EXACTLY what trolls want you to say. If you say nothing to them, they won't have anything to say back. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 22:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Stop trolling, Shard. Morphy 14:16, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You're a shard.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  14:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck! Fight the power! --Kram 06:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck! Fight the power! --Kram 06:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Nourishment
That's it. No more editing while hungry/uncaffeinated. G R E E N E R 19:38, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I need to follow this rule myself, Rogueonion 00:53, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Got some sushi on the way, thanks for reminding me to eat, Rogue. G R E E N E R  01:21, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea, now gimme dat sushi! jk jk Rogueonion 22:13, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

.
=D Rogueonion 10:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Stupid anet goes and buffs mesmers again I quit. this game sucks i'm not buying gw2 i'm over this bull-poop. Because their inability to understand what they are doing really makes the game SUPER crappy. SUPER CRAPPY! I remember when guild wars was the poop. now... its just one profession overpowering others and thats BORING <-referencing 12august2010 update. Hi greener how are you? Rogueonion 09:17, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * One thing I'll admit, my mesmer, who was no more than a mule for me for ages, has seen a lot more action since these updates. No longer does he need to be played with forethought and timing; he just goes out there and causes a lot of damage, with interrupts now being a happy side-effect. That is not how I believe mesmers were intended to be played.
 * Anyways, I'm a person who enjoys giving the benefit of the doubt, so I'm looking at GW2 as a blank slate in many ways. Will there be characters/professions which will start as far over-powered? I'm sure there will be, but that's a trend which is developed when many thousands of players get their hands on the game, the nuances of which can be hard to predict by those who created the issue. It is difficult to see beyond your own bias of your creation; see: Oppenheimer G R E E N E R  17:28, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You are correct, I agree with you, but if they are unable to actually balance this game what gives me the assurance that they will be able to handle keeping that one balanced as it is a HUGE undertaking. I mean, I have to spend my meagre amount of money to buy it, yes it is free to play after that. That is what attracted me to GW1.
 * However, my point is, that I am not really eager to spend cash that I may or may not be able to afford on something that they most likely will show the same kind of respect which they have shown here in GW1 - speaking of course of thier inability to keep GW1 balanced, =D, and if they cannot balance this then as a company I hold my benefit of the doubt until I am able to see the completed project at which point I will decide, but as of now I am on the it is not worth my money side of the fence due to their disregard for the game they already have out. ps greener sorry for the wall =D hope your day goes well. Rogueonion 22:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Wall? I've seen walls, and that's not one of them. And you're right, how they treat GW1 should have some bearing on how we, as players, approach GW2. G R E E N E R  22:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh and you of course are right I should be more open minded about GW2 that original post about it above was after being woken up after 3 hours of sleep - curse you stupid drunken friends =D Rogueonion 22:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

User:Lena
Is permabanned from GWW. No one should be editing his userspace, whether logged in or not. -- Wyn  talk  06:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, merci. G R E E N E R  06:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

To be a bit more proper
Don't make the affiliates in plural form. Vabbians are just "Vabbian", Kournans are "Kournan"--  anguard  19:22, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I fear you just broke the Category links for those NPC's. G R E E N E R  19:28, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Seriously? Guh. Seeing "Vabbians" under a picture of one person kind of drove me nuts. I'll revert. Sadly.-- User Vanguard VanguardLogo.png anguard  19:29, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No prob, I scratched my head for a bit, too. G R E E N E R  19:30, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Reversion netiquitte
I don't understand why this reversion was appropriate. I've offered a more detailed explanation of why I think some change is important (even if it's different from my edit). If you have time, I'd appreciate it if you could explain your thoughts, as I would like to understand your point of view (and hey, I might even agree with it). Thanks. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:11, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * One step ahead of you. Or at the same time as you. Or... G R E E N E R  19:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * lmao! Yes, ahead of me. (Didn't realize you were still on.) Again, thanks for quick and gracious reply. (And I'm good with waiting to see what others think.) &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Sickened
After fixing up all of the Sickened NPC pages, I have to wonder if they can really be considered part of Shiro's army. They seem more like they're just rogue mindless killers, as they're not yet Afflicted. Thoughts? --- Ness  Hrin | 19:57, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point, I think "mindless" is an apt description. I'm ambivalent on that one, so feel free to play with the sickened how you will.
 * Whenever this lag from the wiki lets up (or from my end), I was going to see what I could do about the type and affiliation of Afflicted. I'd rather treat afflicted as a sub-type of undead in the categories, and affiliate them with shiro. But then the info on them being "undead" is further removed from the general user. Anyways, other things to do right now. I'll ponder it more... G R E E N E R  20:09, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Just thought I'd ask because I saw your Shiro's army category. I think the Sickened should be good by themselves, so they can just be left be now that they've been cleaned up. Also, the lag wasn't just on your end. It is incredibly irritating. --- Ness [[File:User Ness Hrin SigIcon.png]] Hrin | 23:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, I thought I had deleted that row. Must have lagged out before I saved the page properly. Taken care of. G R E E N E R  23:49, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Cannot be dyed!
Dear Greener. Try to dye an Inscribed Chackram (METAL) before you change back my correction in the wikipedia page. The original one is INCORRECT. Wiki should say CORRECT information.
 * First, please put new comments at the bottom of the page; It's easier for me to spot what's "new". I've gone back to the page a few times, and your comments, and unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible) there is a) a dye chart showing an Inscribed Chackram (metal) being dyed various colours, and b) an explanation as to why such an item may not accept colour in some cases. If I've missed something, do let me know, and I'll revert myself. G R E E N E R  23:51, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Ty
Ty :D-- Ickoization 19:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

"and not this or that" vs "but not this nor that"
Neither...nor

I previewed it both ways...and, ahem, neither sounds that great. I thought about rephrasing the whole thing...and, well, it's probably fine now. (Plus: that was my favorite edit summary of the week.) &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:36, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just happy to amuse you. I'll be around all week. G R E E N E R  15:36, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! (I'll catch your late show on Sat night.) &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 15:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Lists
Are you sure we should leave all those as redirects? --JonTheMon 14:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, but I think templates are calling them at the moment, and I had other things to do, so leaving them was a temporary solution. I'm hoping with them all located under Category:Capitalization redirects that some better house cleaning can be done. G R E E N E R  19:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Capitalization
It isn't really necessary, as people can't create usernames which start with a lowercase letter. - J.P. Talk  16:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yay, saved me from mundane work. G R E E N E R  16:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And I see you edit faster than me, too. G R E E N E R  16:44, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I posted just for you
I feel very unloved Q.Q 203.118.171.225 18:24, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I should have known better after reading Dr. Seuss to my nephew so often. G R E E N E R  18:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Kittens With Claws
This is a guild page, and according to the Guild page policy all guild pages must reside in the guild namespace. Since they are not really responding to anything that is being posted on the talk page, I am going to simply move it and all subpages. -- Wyn  talk  05:51, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, it seems to have grown since last I saw. I had interpreted the user's meaning slightly differently than it appears he/she meant. G R E E N E R  05:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Sig images
Heya, sig images that have a lot of links are generally allowed to remain misnamed. The policy was not established immediately when the wiki was set up, and not really enforced for awhile after it was. I would refrain from moving signature images since they require users change their preference settings and leave behind a lot of broken links. I can find the discussion about this if you want. -- Wyn  talk  08:04, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, again, all good tid-bits to learn, from my point of view. I'll remove the delete tag, if you haven't done so already. G R E E N E R  08:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Random funfact
Kegs are cheaper than other alcohol because they're not stackable or divisible (and, hence, more annoying). This makes them AWESOME for casual players looking to spend thousands of minutes drunk. &mdash; Raine Valen    19:27, 2 Nov 2010 (UTC)
 * I can see the first part, as I gave away two to guildies due to those characteristics. And I guess if you want to get drunk, cheaply, you pick up what others don't want. G R E E N E R  21:17, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Here
I respect your opinion even though you'll prob vote for no.

Theres a couple people that think the voice actor should remain under trivia but I disagree, I think it should be in the infobox. I noticed that some trivia with voice actors have info about the actor instead of character, why not seperate that and make it clearer. Besides, the code may be in all npc pages but they have to add |voiceactor = Bob in order to be effected by the change. Can you please vote? here Keep in mind, its not for all npcs or heroes that do not have voices but only for those who do. Lucian Shadowborn  00:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I had other work that I had to get done today, so I haven't been near a computer 'til now. I will take another look at your proposal, of course. G R E E N E R  05:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Discussion
The discussion is about whether the template should be used or not, and until the discussion is over it should see no use. If you really want that info there, use a plain old text, don't put a discussed template back there. - Reanimated X 17:39, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the least disruptive method would have been to convert the template to text only (with the bullet, I believe). --JonTheMon 17:48, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Or no revert/edit at all and just ignore it until the discussion about the template is over. --Lania  [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]]19:03, 09 November 2010 (UTC)
 * True, I am with Jon on that one, but the revert that I did was just before heading out for coffee with a friend, and time did not warrant typing the text. My focus for the reverts were to save the information on who the voice actor was, instead of having it disappear and set back the data on the project page. With the information still existing, along with the template, conforming them to plain text is now far easier than digging through the histories of pages. G R E E N E R  19:14, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh just FYI, in case I wasn't clear, my comment was directed at reanimated X, not you Greener. --Lania  [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]]19:16, 09 November 2010 (UTC)

Beneficial Hexes
The following table shows you which hexes can be considered beneficial:


 * Mesmer
 * Shame
 * Arcane Conundrum
 * Guilt
 * Stolen Speed (PvP)
 * Mind Wrack
 * Ether Lord
 * Kitah's Burden
 * Ethereal Burden
 * Spirit of Failure
 * Power Leech
 * Assassin
 * Mark of Instability
 * Siphon Speed
 * Siphon Strength
 * Expose Defenses
 * Assassin's Promise
 * Augury of Death
 * Scorpion Wire
 * Mirrored Stance
 * Shadowy Burden
 * Necromancer
 * Life Transfer
 * Life Siphon
 * Insidious Parasite
 * Malaise
 * Mark of Suversion
 * Reaper's Mark
 * Parasitic Bond
 * Soul Leech
 * Ritualist
 * Renewing Surge
 * Monk
 * Defender's Zeal

I bolded all beneficial hexes that do not end when the caster dies (which according to you is not only not an anomaly but the standard instead). I'll also give you a reason why those bolded skills fall into that category: they are quite young skills (functionally). Consider reverting yourself as you are as plain wrong as is your reasoning shallow. 88.153.105.75 02:45, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * You seem to have put a lot of effort in creating that list, so I will show you respect and go through each of these examples. I looked at each case, and grouped them based on my impressions of the skill, based on mechanics and what I can only term as "lore". (An example of lore would be Parasitic Bond ending upon death as the "parasite" has just been killed).


 * Skills I feel should end upon the death of the caster:
 * Mind Wrack, Stolen Speed (PvP), Ether Lord, Spirit of Failure, Power Leech, Mark of Instability, Siphon Speed, Siphon Strength, Expose Defenses, Assassin's Promise, Augury of Death, Scorpion Wire, Mirrored Stance, Shadowy Burden, Life Transfer, Life Siphon, Insidious Parasite, Malaise, Reaper's Mark, Parasitic Bond, Soul Leech, Defender's Zeal


 * Skills I feel shouldn't end upon the death of the caster:
 * Arcane Conundrum, Renewing Surge


 * Skills I find debatable:
 * Kitah's Burden / Ethereal Burden though one could argue that the caster is the "burden"
 * Shame / Guilt though one could say that the caster is applying the "shame" or "guilt"
 * Mark of Subversion though the caster could be the one applying the "mark"


 * When I started to study the skills, I expected a much bigger spread between my thoughts and the actual mechanics of the game, based upon your statement of some functionalities being newer than others. Instead, I see that my thoughts and feelings are accurately reflected by how these skills have been designed. As such, I see no reason for me to revert myself against my own beliefs. G R E E N E R  03:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Two other ways to organize are
 * Are the benefits health, energy, or something else? If you're dead, only energy benefits are meaningful; any other benefits directed to you would make little sense.
 * When do the benefits accrue? on foe death, on foe action, or on hex end. Arguably, it makes little sense that a dead toon should accrue benefits that depend on the foe, but almost reasonable that they continue unless the hex is removed.


 * Arguably these can (and should) offer post-death energy benefits:
 * Add energy to caster on hex end: Arcane Conundrum, Assassin's Promise (also skill recharge), Ethereal Burden, Kitah's Burden, Renewing Surge


 * Arguably these cannot offer benefits post-death:
 * Depend on foe action: Defender's Zeal (hit), Reaper's Mark (death), Spirit of Failure (misses), Guilt (cast on own foe), Shame (cast on own ally)
 * Adds energy regen: Ether Lord
 * Health related:
 * Direct: Blood Bond, Parasitic Bond
 * Regen: Life Siphon, Life Transfer
 * Stolen: Mark of Subversion


 * If the game was consistent, then all the spells in the first bullet should offer post-death benefits. Since only two of the five do, I think 88 is partially correct: the behavior is noteworthy, but I'm not sure I support labeling something that happens 40% of the time as anomalous. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 04:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

This does not make any sense at all when comparing with Arcane Conundrum and Renewing Surge. Since when are philosophical reasons worth anything in a technical context? It's tautolocigal to say that a player applies a skill he or she is the caster of. Thus, this is no argument for your position. This is not about intuition; it's about factual reasoning.
 * True, energy/skill renewal is different than health gain for a dead caster. I'm curious. As it stands right now, do KB, EB and Assassin's Promise end on the casters death and give energy to the caster? If so, it is that fact which I would have a real problem with in terms of conceptualization. If they end without giving energy, then I see those three as acting within reason.
 * Anyways, a note about it would be fine if it is seen as possibly confusing. Renewing Surge already has an anomalous tag on the same issue which I disagree with. G R E E N E R  05:34, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Assassin's promise dies without benefit on removal or caster's death. I believe it's the same for the burdensomes, but I don't think my mesmer has ever died while waiting for them to end. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 06:36, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll wait to let 88 give his/her two-cents. If things are agreed to, I'll swing by Renewing Surge and Arcane Conundrum to put an appropriate note on the page when I get back. G R E E N E R  17:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * "Arguably these cannot offer benefits post-death: [...] Reaper's Mark (death)"
 * "though one could argue that the caster is the "burden""
 * "though one could say that the caster is applying the "shame" or "guilt""
 * "I see that my thoughts and feelings are accurately reflected"
 * And lastly the nature of a beneficial hex, since you seem to be too blind to realize, is to affect the caster as well as the victim. It is a somewhat misleading name (yet a better fitting is to be found) because the return effect might as well be maleficial (Malaise for example). You commit to the fallacy of a double-standard reasoning system and you obviously do not even know what a beneficial hex is defined by. You are straight wrong and gave no factual reasons at all for your twisted logic. Next time, fail less or even better - don't even try. 88.153.105.75 19:41, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

By the way, "This is a hex with a negative effect on the foes, first and foremost, so shouldn't end." , you twist a completely situational and contextual view into something absolute which is outright false. 88.153.105.75 19:46, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Take a look again at my arguments before you attack them, else we're just dealing with straw men (if you wish to use fallacy terms).
 * Guilt, the Burdens and the rest of those under "Skills I find debatable" should not end on the casters death, in my opinion, but I offer a reasons why someone might program them to act that way.
 * Philosophical arguments are very valid when it comes to designing a skill, else one removes the story/feeling from the game play. I did not argue straight "intuition". I argued my beliefs based on how I thought the skill should work based on its name and mechanics.
 * I cannot tell if you are trying to define "beneficial hex" or not, but either way the title is irrelevant as it is a player creation.
 * TEF was arguing alternative interpretations which would move Arcane Conundrum and Renewing Surge closer to being "anomalous" but found that even with that push, they contribute to 40% of the skills he found they could be grouped with.
 * As for the quote from the Arcane Conundrum history, I'll delve into my rational further for you. When I use that skill, I use it to slow down the casting from groups of foes. This allows for easier interruptions etc. from either me or my group, as well as slowing down the damage/healing that the foes can produce. For it to end upon my death is nonsensical, and would be a major set-back to that skill. I cannot even find a reasoning based on the skill's name for why it might end on the caster's death. The fact that this skill gives energy back is a bonus. Noting that it does not end on a casters death is fine by me, but saying that it's an anomaly is stretching it. It works in the manner that best makes sense. G R E E N E R  21:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Again you do not give reasons. You just state your opinion and show that you don't *know* a single thing. Phrases like "When I use that skill" show that you are far from being objective. And no, your definition about the meaning of skill names is just well past sanity. Word of Healing is not a shout, Mantra of Recall is not a stance and so on. At least pretend you are able to give a factual and technical reason for why Arcane Conundrum and Renewing Surge have to linger after their casters' deaths. Merely stating "what you feel" is nothing but meaningless. 88.153.105.75 21:36, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Lastly, Greener, this is not about your opinion. Anomaly and bug tags are in no way subject to anyone's opinion. For as long as you have to rely on such in order to sound true you fail to realize what this is about. 88.153.105.75 21:40, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course it's an opinion; all interpretations are opinions. My opinion is that it is not anomalous while your opinion is that it is anomalous. I believe that the skill acts exactly how it is supposed to act in a manner that isn't confusing nor out of step. I cannot see any reason why it would be expected to end upon the casters death, neither via mechanics nor name nor any other line or reasoning. Next, again, have the courtesy to avoid attacking arguments I never made. It only adds confusion to this overdone discussion. I never claimed that a name makes a skills mechanics; I only offered it as a reason for why the skill may have been designed the way it does.
 * Have you realized just how much time you've wasted of both of ours over such a mundane issue? I do not care what the final outcome of the page is. I keep choosing to write to you as a courtesy to explain my action, and I've done so despite your continual choice to make personal attacks about me and my knowledge because I believe there's a certain level of decorum that should be presented on this wiki. You've wasted my patience and respect. I consider this subject closed. G R E E N E R  23:21, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The only one wasting time is you since you mistake opinions for facts and vice versa. And here again for you: "A beneficial hex has an effect on its victim (this can be as small as only the hex in itself) and an effect on its caster (this can be even a negative effect). Due to the problem of redirect the latter after the death of the caster, it's a defining nature of all (without exceptions) beneficial hexes that they end on their casters' deaths.". And lastly, I am only as offensive towards you as your lies, subjectivity and general ineptitude to formulate reasons rather than stating your illogical opinions is sickening towards me (by the way, if your only way to end an discussion you were never able to actually lead, is to say "it's overdone" then it's quite a weakness of will or mind. Or both). 88.153.105.75 00:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no particular reason a beneficial hex must end on caster death, especially since spells like Arcane Conundrum also debuff foes. From a completely neutral point of view, I think the question is whether all spells in the game behave alike/similarly. You have pointed out that most beneficial hexes do not benefit the caster after he/she dies. I have pointed out that there's no way a dead toon can gain health, so that's hardly surprising since most bene-hexes are about gaining, regenerating, or stealing health. Dead characters can regain energy and, since there are only 5 energy-related bene-hexes, there's not really a consistent pattern: 2 behave one way, 3 behave another.


 * Therefore, I think there's evidentiary support for including a note on each of those 5 spells and insufficient evidence that those spells behave anomalously or unintendendly.


 * On a side note, I am finding it increasingly difficult to reconsider your argument because I have to sort through a lot of irrelevant verbiage. At best, it's impolitic to call someone illogical or to admit to being sickened by their opinions; it has nothing to do with the behavior we are trying to document. At worst, though, calling someone a liar or inept could easily be considered a personal attack. If it's not your intention to sidetrack the discussion, perhaps we can stick to the comparison of various categories of hexes. Thanks. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 00:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Sandbox?
Hey Greener buddy, how do you make them nifty sandbox links? Rogueonion 00:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * They're actually how you can create any page on the wiki. First, I create the link for the location. for example, typing in  creates the red link User:Greener/Sandbox/Interesting. Because it's going to be in my userspace, I start the location with "User:Greener". I figured that I was going to have a sandbox area, and kept that as the next part of the directory name, hense the /Sandbox. Then the page itself needed a name, so I gave it /Interesting.
 * Until I put information onto the page, it will remain red, of course. That last link I created was going to be an attempt to clean up some categories, but I realized the problem was deeper than I had thought and I didn't have time to spend on it. G R E E N E R  01:09, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * you da man, thanks. Rogueonion 01:14, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No prob. If anything goes haywire, blame me. I'm off for the night, so have fun if you're going to build your userspace. G R E E N E R  01:21, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If I create a sandbox will it be left alone by other users? Rogueonion 23:09, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * When you create something in your userspace (begins with "User:Rogueonion/") and it is not a talk page (begins with "User talk:Rogueonion/") then others cannot edit it other than perhaps fixing a minor mistake or clearing things which are disallowed on the site. Note, each page in your userspace comes with an associated talkpage, which people are allowed to contribute to.
 * As an example, you can see the links which I've created. They all begin with User:Greener/. Only I am allowed to be the main contributor to those pages (except in rare cases). But each of those has their own discussion page, which start with User talk:Greener/ G R E E N E R  23:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. Rogueonion 23:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Mob Diversity
You could redirect your similar (and incorporated) suggestion there, and merge the talk pages. You don't HAVE to, of course, but I think it'd accomplish your goal. &mdash; Raine Valen    0:31, 22 Nov 2010 (UTC)
 * It took me far too long to realize what you were talking about. Yes, that is an option, and would make sense. G R E E N E R  00:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, taking a look at the code, I'm not sure which is used by my feedback page. I'll just leave it be for now, and take a closer look when I have time. G R E E N E R  00:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Pekka's trivia
It's a very, very common name here. It think should be noted, no matter if they choosed the name based on the Finnish name or not. - J.P. Talk  22:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to get back to you so late (shovelling snow has now become a pastime of mine). I'm sure the name is common in Finland, but from my point of view unless there is a connection between the NPC and the name, or we think Anet chose it for a reason, then we're no longer documenting a part of the game, we're simply documenting a name. Of course, others may disagree, and you're more than allowed to change my edit. G R E E N E R  01:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I did just come across Pekk. Any connection? G R E E N E R  19:38, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Pekka Rinne. Very entertaining to watch tonight. G R E E N E R  07:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Little try ^^
About a dark signature problem :P -- MJ 18:27, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I see you took out the "Talk" section of your sig. May as well snip the issue in the bud, eh? Anyways, we've spammed the "recent changes" page enough. I hope it works for you now, and do take a look at using the "Show Preview". It makes editing a whole lot faster and saves us from angering those digging through the recent changes page. G R E E N E R  18:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

There I added the small unimportant detail to ward of stability
That they cloesly resemble Koss's red Elite sunspear boots, now hop off already --Brisingr Dude 02:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you were able to find what I was unable to. Thanks! G R E E N E R  07:19, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Feedback user page
Is there some reason you created a new page, rather than moving the mis capitalized one? -- Wyn  talk  11:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for catching that! I did a search for a possible feedback space under "Feedback:jumblhunter", but since I took the name from his/her talk page, I see now that there was a spelling error in what he/she had written. That led me to believe that the user was somehow trying to create a new account rather than a feedback space. Good eye! G R E E N E R  20:55, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

"Do unseen NPC's get infoboxes?"
Nope. None of them currently, at least. And it wouldn't look too nice since most of the information would be blank. And no image. -- Konig / talk 11:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I've come across a couple with the box, and left them as they were. If I find them again, I'll re-adjust them. G R E E N E R  18:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * If they are unseen, then their infoboxes should also be unseen. ;-) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Works for me! Similar mentality to what my nephew uses when he gets in trouble: "If I face the other way, then I can't see you, therefore..." G R E E N E R  00:05, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Retaining page histories
Given that User talk:Cristianc was moved to User talk:Cristianc 2, by simply cutting/pasting the text back to the original page, and tagging the new one for deletion, you are effectively destroying the page history. The proper action would have been to move it back to it's original location. That would retain the page history. -- Wyn  talk  11:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh, I see. What steps should I take to do this? Can a page be moved onto a page which already exists? (I'm not going to test the theory out in case I overwrite more histories). I seem to recall a page being deleted so that a move could occur... G R E E N E R  11:30, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I follow you now. Thanks, yet again! G R E E N E R  11:31, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I believe you could have moved it back over the move created redirect, however, now that you've made additional edits, it has to be sorted by an admin, so I have posted it on the noticeboard. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  11:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems you're always showing me something new, and sorry for the hassle. Both are appreciated. G R E E N E R  11:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries Greener, you do a great job here, I don't want you to think your efforts are not appreciated. I'm just kind of a stickler for certain details :D -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  12:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Saving information from the dark world of "Nobody Can Find Me" is a tad bigger than a detail. G R E E N E R  20:16, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Your Revert
Hello Greener! I noticed your revert on my revert with your reason being "rv. It would seem this guild is still active. If you no longer belong to the guild, then there is no need to remove content from the page. Leave your fights off of this wiki". I respectfully see your reason being valid and relevant to it, however, this guild is recently "disbanded" (Meaning the guild is no longer active at all, while the name is still in the game). I have been checking tabs on the guild and I still have a second account that I get on daily to check to see if any activity has occurred. My reason being that I believe my revert should still stand is that seeing the guild has been inactive, it shouldn't have old information on the page that it had when it was alive. For example this guild was an example of what I was trying to do. Although this page never had any much extensive information of the guild, my reason still stands. Although (now checking through my edit I did over do it) Many parts should be taken out and I even forgot to put the tag for it being a Historic guild because of inactivity. With your permission, or at least understand, may I redo what I over did? Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 16:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If there are still people, if inactive, in the guild, then yes you did over-do it a bit. That being said, I know no more of the guild's standings beyond what I see. The wiki does add the historical tags to guilds which have not been updated in a while (I believe a bot has been programmed for that), so if you wish you can wait for the bot to come around in a few months' time. If you would rather add the tag now because you know that the guild will never be active, or if you know there is superfluous/erroneous information which can be removed, then I would be fine with that. G R E E N E R  17:07, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * To add, the code you're looking to add to the top of the page is  .  G R E E N E R  17:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I have been told, there is no chance that the leader will be active again (So far been offline for four weeks, but a total of around 10 weeks of total inactivity, and with the fact the leader has demoted every officer, leaving a total of 28 members overall, no alliance, and 811 Alliance faction with no other allies tells me that it is inactive. There is some info I will delete, but I might as well add the historic tag, seeing I'll be editing anyhow. Thank you for your time Greener, have a good day, and a happy new year! Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 17:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I see, thank you for the code! Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 17:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there no template for guilds that simply do not exist anymore?  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  17:24, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * My knowledge on the topic is limited to what I've seen used by others and what I had found on Category:Notice templates. Besides, the wording on Template:Historical guild seems to include disbanded guilds in its optional variables. G R E E N E R  17:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If the guild has been disbanded, the guild page should be archived as historical with the tag . For more information on archiving inactive guild pages see Guild Wars Wiki:Guild pages/Archiving. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]]  talk  00:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)