Feedback talk:User/Magic/Teinai's Wind & Whirlwind

Too much utility and defense for a 5 energy 8 recharge skill. Pika Fan 22:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah.. that doesn't help at all. Maybe you missed the note at he bottom? I wasn't sure really how to set the energy cost and recharge because I wasn't sure if the knock down would be over powering the skill. I added the bolded note text to the bottom to prevent further problems. Magic  [[Image:User Magic Icon.jpg|19px]] Talk  22:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It only does not help people who do not exercise basic logic. I think it's obvious that when I say "Too much utility and defense for a 5 energy 8 recharge skill." I mean it 1) costs too little energy 2) recharges too fast. Or is it too hard to understand? Pika Fan 22:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe the user wants exact values to put in instead? Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  22:11, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * remove the aoe, and i think its balanced, its like counter blow on hammer wars Talamare 22:13, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Aoe isn't the problem here; warriors don't ball up to spike targets often anyway. The fact that it is ranged, and recharges quick enough to stop a spike every time. Pika Fan 22:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If a user can't decide what exact values to put in to balance the skill, he/she shouldn't really suggest changes to perfectly balanced skills. Pika Fan 22:14, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * i'd have to /agree with pika there -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 22:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * this skill isnt perfectly balanced, its weak... at most spamming lightning javelin gives you roughly the same result, not to mention an air ele would probably have blind surge(or hell blind flash), use that during a spike it will stop it every time too Talamare 22:21, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I saw it once in a while on Earth Shakers for fun. And it works wonders on arena monks, too. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  22:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You can remove blind just before a spike with RC/Draw, but only AoS can stop knockdowns just before a spike, and you generally reserve AoS for your Infuse or your flagger. Teinai's Wind is balanced, it's just that other skills are OPed that this pales in comparison. Adding to the power of perfectly balanced skills just adds to power creep. Pika Fan 22:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay.. this was my logic.. whether it be right or wrong. I didn't adjust the energy/recharge values because I couldn't gauge whether the knockdown on the skill would cause it to be overpower. If 1) we kept the knockdown, I was going to beef up the recharge and possible even the energy cost. 2) If other people decided the knockdown should be removed, then the values would have been adjusted accordingly. 3) The original point of this topic was to make Teinai's Wind hit at target foes location instead of just around the caster. 4)Feedback is here for people to post ideas to tweak the game better. Telling me it was retarded to post this without knowing the values is kind of retarded when I specifically asked what you all think I should do. ; \ Magic  [[Image:User Magic Icon.jpg|19px]] Talk  22:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * and I was saying if they got blinded during the spike, its borderline impossible to rc/draw it in time... thats when you would use this, at most the recharge should be bumped to 10, this skill was never 'perfectly' balanced, its been weak for a LONG time Talamare 22:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Draw is 1/4 cast. If you can't twitch a draw, you are a bad monk. The skill is balanced, it is just that other alternatives that are OPed. Please don't make me repeat that. It is one thing to be underpowered and thus not used(Word of Censure) and another to be balanced but not used(WoH > ZB). Balancing 101: Don't add to the power creep. Buffing counters mean you have to buff their counter-counters, and the vicious cycle repeats. Just take a look at the balance updates where Anet buffed WE, then went on to buff VoR. Pika Fan 23:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm lost.. After all of this did we decide whether or not allow you to cast it at targets location a good thing for either PvE or PvP? I still like the idea.. but I still say it needs some tweaks. Magic  [[Image:User Magic Icon.jpg|19px]] Talk  23:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * even if you twitch draw it, more then likely they already wasted an attack with a miss, which is often enough to cancel a spike, this skill isnt balanced but not used, its weak and not used, its a case of healing light vs woh... this skill isnt "borderline usable" its just crap Talamare 00:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

What is the difference between 8 and 10 seconds? Not hardly any. wouldn't of affected the skill much any. Just still gives person ability to wait what two seconds to use it in pvp and / or pve? ♥ Ariyen ♀ 00:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 8 recharge gives them 15 extra uses than 10 recharge within 10mins, which means 30 seconds more kd time, which is pretty huge in pvp Talamare 02:45, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Y'know its funny. Every skill that I seen you reply to is always PvP and at the same time I'm always PvE. Maybe I should tag it PvE only.. all thought I hate the split skills system. It's like running two different versions of the game at once. :S Magic  [[Image:User Magic Icon.jpg|19px]] Talk  03:10, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I used to run this on my HA monk when triple dervish spike was the meta. We laughed a lot. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with magic. Some skills may affect PvE too and Affect them Differently. Hence, I said what I did. I'm thinking 8 would be more useful for PvE. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 04:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This is too good for a 5 energy spell with a 10 second recharge. I'd say that you could add on "if you knocked down a foe with this skill, you lose an additional 5 energy" or something along those lines.  Having this always cost 10 energy could hurt if you don't get the knockdown with it.  However, if you satisfy that conditional circumstance and knock someone down, it should probably be a bit more pricey.  In addition to that, I would probably up the recharge to 12 even.  Elementalists with a non-elite, ranged knockdown skill for melee could really take advantage of this with 40/40 sets.  Tounaku 18:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)