User talk:Wizardboy777/Monsters with obsolete skillbars

Was just thinking of making just such a page. One issue was deciding where to draw the border. This list is pretty conservative, which is probably a good thing. I think I agree with everything listed. Backsword 06:17, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the 0 in spawning power for the wardens may be intentional: purely there for ripping through minion master armies. King Neoterikos 06:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's possible, but their AI still spams it on players :/  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 16:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Noticing you have this list on the wiki, I'd just like to point out my Guru thread which lists monsters with changed bars - some are like in your list, others not so much. I tried to keep the OP as strict to builds that were changed via functionality changes - but there are other changes throughout. Add these monsters to your list if you want for a more complete listing. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 10:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I made a post earlier on the skillbar issue on the following page Assassin skills Maybe there is some new information on it for ya. I only scanned your post briefly. Maybe divide it into classes if it becomes any longer. Im looking around for more iffy skill bars, but so far its only the sin bosses that have problems.(basic scan on bosses only)--  Cobra    [[Image:User_Demonic_Cobra_Cobra_icon.png | 15px ]] 16:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind, I added Captain Mhedi. 86.26.204.160 09:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

2 notes
Mungri Magicbox: Boon Signet works perfectly fine. You don't need direct heals to make it work. In fact, RoF is perfect for it.

Maligo Libens: AotL itself is a death magic skill. Boosting your elite is not a horrible thing. Backsword 17:29, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * With Maligo Libens, it will only boost his elite if a) he has at least 16 death magic, b) he recasts it on recharge instead of waiting for it to wear off and c) it's not stripped. Even if it does boost AotL, the only benefit he really gets is a bone horror that is one level higher and ~2.5 more seconds to the duration. The duration buff accomplishes little because it's only powering AotL anyways, and a 1-level boost to a bone horror? Whoop-de-doo, especially since he doesn't have any skills to heal it, make it explode, redirect damage to it, etc. It just hits for 2 or 3 more damage and takes another second to die. The functionality simply makes no sense with his current skill bar.
 * As for Mungri, I wasn't sure how Boon Signet worked (I never took the time to play around with it or anything, and the skill pages both here and on guildwiki aren't clear on the mechanics - it acts like an extra divine favor heal, as opposed to increasing a heal caused by, say, Orison), so now that I know how it works I think he can be taken off.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 23:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * yeas, he has a bad build. But honestly, this is par for the course, regarding GW monsters. He had a bad build before too. I was only pointing out that it wasn't functionally broken, as the others. Backsword 14:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

looking for mobs
Hmm, just a tip: checking any changed skill page and using the "what links here" [alt-j] tool, one could find which monsters use that skill. Meh, I'll try to check some of them, but lately my lame ISP isn't helping me much. ¬¬ --NIN37 22:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Bleh, best I could find were Kournan Bowman and Seed of Suffering who get Prepared Shot with no preparation to get advantage from...
 * Are they even worth mentioning (just missing a minor damage bonus)?
 * Everything else with broken skill bar due recent skill updates seems to have been listed already. --NIN37 03:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The Kournan bowmen with prepared shot have read the wind and the seed of suffering has barbed arrows.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 13:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Staying in front of PC for 5 hours straight reading multiple pages at once does no good to NIN37. ¬¬ --NIN37 14:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Low level bosses
Bosses keep their builds in HM, that ensures that is not easier to acquire elites, but has the problem of making them weaker than their non-boss counterparts. Most of them have only 4 skills, but some of them may have 0..2! Those bosses are kind of disappointing, when they should be stronger than other enemies around them. MithTalk 13:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Henchmen
I know that this isn't supposed to be about henchmen but...

Aidan and Reyna have Practiced Stance and their preperation is Kindle Arrows. Kindle Arrows already lasts double the recharge. May I suggest changing their elite skill to Poison Arrow? Archer Henchmen and Zaishen Archers have Poison Arrow already, and other Core Henchmen have the same skills as their PvE counterparts. This is even worse in Nightfall, where Aidan has 2 stances on his bar (though Heket's Rampage is a bad stance for him anyway).

Redemptor Karl and Seaguard Gita have Draw Conditions, Life Sheath AND Mend Ailment. (Already mentioned kind off...)

Kihm (level 3..15 in Istan) has Shatter Hex, a Mesmer skill. I think it should be changes to Smite Hex. &mdash; Poki#3 22:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Bah, why stop there? Changing a few certain skills can certainly improve a bar by a lot, but why not go the full hog and remove any traces of obsoleteness altogether...

Reyna

Aidan, Prophecies

Aidan, Nightfall

Redemptor Karl / Seaguard Gita

Kihm on Istan


 * Obaby. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 06:32, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Improving the skillbars of henchmen is something for another discussion entirely. I'm just talking about the obvious errors on them. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:User_Poki_Signature.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]] 00:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * There isn't anything actually wrong with any of the examples, even if they are not the best combos/use of skills. Before Life Sheath was changed, it made sense to have Draw and Mend Ailment. Now they should drop Mend as it's redundant/excessive, but it's not a broken bar like the assassin chains for example. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 00:25, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Captain Alsin
Notes at Captain Alsin article says: Should we add him to the obsolete skillbars pages as well? --NIN37 18:13, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * He does not have an item spell to benefit from Renewing Memories
 * Added.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 12:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, glad I could finally find something useful. :P --NIN37 01:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Nika (during The Norn Fighting Tournament)
Black Lotus Strike changed from off-hand attack to lead attack leaving her with two non-chainable dual attacks that must follow an off-hand attack. --NIN37 01:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I wondered why she never seemed to pull off a chain on me. I'd always go into fights versus Nika, thinking "I hope I can blind/disable/whatever her before she gets to Shattering, coz that ruins my build". Guess I never had anything to worry about. :\ Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Added.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 14:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) More victims of the Black Lotus Strike change: Xien, Luxon Assassin, Convicted Criminal (assassin), Deadly Lavastrider. &mdash;  Poki#3  (talk ) 14:12, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Luxon sins are already kinda listed (Illidus of them Empty Palm etc) but I added Xien and Deadly Lavastriders.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 22:39, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Warden of Saprophytes
Notes on page say: "no off-hand attack for Repeating Strike", so can't start a combo-chain. --NIN37 15:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * He's listed already.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 23:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * He is a copycat boss. Faction has some of them. The name may change, but the creature and its drops are the same. There is one copycat boss that even has the same name: Kenshi Steelhand. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 14:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Urkal the Ambusher / Maximole
Talk page mentions they don't have ways to inflict crippled to maximize usage of Jungle Strike; but since they should be surrounded by Dredge Gatherers, Snare should do the trick. IMO, not a "problematic" build (just putting it here as well, since both Assassin Bosses share same area) . BTW, they're basically the same creature, just renamed (off-topic: Maximole needs pictures). :P --NIN37 15:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nika suffers from the same problem as a hench, and the only way to do it without inflicting cripple yourself is to bring Lukas for Hamstring. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 01:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I just vanqed Ferndale last night, and I could swear I saw Dredge Gutters using Leaping Mantis Sting... but even if they don't have it, I'd say it's probably supposed to be a team synergy thing, and the combo works even without crippled, so I don't think I'm gonna list this one.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 14:04, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, that would be Mantis Hunter. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 22:06, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Harpies
They have charge and incomming last I checked. Haven't been to vabbi in a while though, so that could have been changed (finally). --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Kelvin Greyheart (talk).
 * Added.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 14:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Brother Pe Wan
Disenchantment Course :/ (Not much of a "Disenchantment Course" but a "Se How Long Your Disenchantment Skills Recharge, While I Keep On Casting Course") He needs a (preferably) non healing, long lasting prot that would make him very resistant to 1 attacker. &mdash; Poki#3 02:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Charr Sentry
Ignite Arrows + Barrage --NIN37 07:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's on purpose. They either use ignite arrows+double shot or barrage. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 22:34, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Vaettir
Due to an update to Cultist's Fervor that removed it's sacrifice effect, their Dark Aura is useless. &mdash; Poki#3 19:42, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

"We Shall Return!" monsters
I've added Chakeh the Lonely and Awakened Cavaliers to the list. The key issue is that they often come in groups of several (usually accompanied by a few Awakened Acolyte friends as well) and are now a small army of mad resbots. The presence of several of these guys in a single party makes their mobs hugely imbalanced. WSR's new functionality has also rendered the presence of Signet of Return obsolete on their skill bars. There are probably more monsters with this skill on their bar, but the main issue is with the Desolation mobs of Undead, I think. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Elveh (talk).

Neoli the Contagious
Neoli can't inflict conditions, but Ridgeback Kuskales, Kuskale Blighters and Kuskale Reapers can. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Afflicted Warrior
You might want to add that they also have auspicious blow, which is totally pointless given none of the afflicted can inflict weakness. -- Ckal Ktak  08:14, 21 September 2009 (UTC)