ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ranger/Barbed Arrows

Discussion of OP
Discuss. -- Readem 04:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is fine. Bow only, slightly more efficient, lower dmg, -40 al. --[[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 04:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I mean sure, if your enemy has Antidote Sig I'd rather have Barbed... But no1 really uses it that much, most of the top rangers are still running MTouch. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 12:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter. The -40 is covered by stride, and rangers are naturally resilient to any non-physical damage (for the most part). I want it toned down to be less efficient than Apply Poison, because currently, it has no drawbacks whatsoever. In addition, Bleeding > Poison in situations where pressure doesn't make a difference. -- Readem 14:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Why is bleeding>poison? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 17:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, it is a tiny bit more efficient. Realistically, its cost should be 11.5. That amount is reduced due to Expertise however. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 17:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Barbed Arrows was over-buffed tbh. -- Readem 20:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Counter my points above. Explain why it is OPed, cuz I'm just not seeing it. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 22:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess it would be better actually, since Antidote signet MAY be run occasionally, and it is a better cover... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 23:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I just wanted to know why a timeless skill such as Apply Poison is inferior (if only minutely) to barbed arrows. A few of us in the GW PvP community have questioned why BA received such a considerable buff. -- Readem 01:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I like apply poison because my warrior/ranger can put 'apply' poison to his weapon...barbed arrow heads don't really fit on on an axe or sword. - Elder Angelus 17:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * lmao Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:20, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Lmao this skill is bad compared to Apply Poison. Look at it, no one agrees with Readem other than his alternate account that we all know as NuklearVII.
 * You're bad. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 00:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah Readem is bad.--75.94.77.148 00:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Skye Marin's Discussion
Cost is already 10. Increase to 15? -- Armond Warblade 05:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My bad. Duration is 18 vs, Poison Arrow's 24. Lower cost for lower duration + more risk of being interrupted when preparing. Poison Tip Signet and Screaming Shot encourage just as much variety.--Skye Marin 05:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Or make Apply Poison easily interruptible. Everyone already thinks apply is too good. (prepares for flame-spike in 3...2...) ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 05:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Honestly, if Barbed were made as good, people might consider using it over Apply. But if you're not spiking, there's no good preps other than Apply. If you're spiking, though, there's plenty of good options out there. The biggest problem Barbed will have to overcome is that Poison does more DPS than Bleeding, and bleeding is usually inflicted by whatever sword warriors are on your team. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 05:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What if this prep also added a small bonus to your attack damage, say 1...8? Here's another idea, add "your critical hits cause Deep Wound". But yeah, it needs something more to make up for the fact that Bleeding is worse than Poison.


 * BTW, Shard, I almost agree that Apply is too strong, but then again, the game has worked with Apply the way it is for a long time. It's not like you can't deal as much damage using other preps, but Apply works best for a Ranger who focuses on interrupting because he can get the most out of the preparation reguardless of how frequently you happen to attack. Since your priority is interruption Apply is the best one by nature, not based on the damage numbers except when comparing it to Barbed Arrows. --TimeToGetIntense 09:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Four reasons why Barbed Arrows is inferior to Apply poison: Apply Posion costs 5 energy more BUT the duration is 4 seconds longer, isn't easily interrupted, works on all attacks, not just Bow Attacks and poison deals more dmg than bleeding. Zealous 10:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it would hurt anyone if the Easy to Interrupt bit were removed. Or the duration extended to match Apply Poison. As long as it can only be applied to bows, it won't be that bad (might be fun with Poison Arrow though, basically, each shot you fire causes burning...)Nicky Silverstar 20:29, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Poison Tip Signet and/or Screaming Arrow with the opposite preparation already encourage that.--Skye Marin 21:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They both happen to be bad. I'd rather take a proper prep than a "every two seconds you stop to cast a signet" skill, and I'd take debil over screaming any day of the week. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 21:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I think they made this inferior on purpose because rangers aren't supposed to make foes bleed easily. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  14:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow seriously, you're talking about nerfing Apply? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  22:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, where do you see that? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 22:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

If Anet didnt want Rangers to be good at bleeding they should never have made the skill. As it stands now, it is blatantly inferior to Apply poison and has little to no use. If the designer did not want to give Ranger's bleeding, then he should not give Ranger's a preparation for it that isn't up to par. The end result is a skill that is "underpowered by design", which is not good for the metagame no matter which angle you look at it from. Master Ketsu 01:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Armond's Discussion
Idea taken from above. -- Armond Warblade 22:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I always thought that Barbed was when you didn't want to invest 15 energy for Apply or if you run Poison tip signet. I think simply removing easily interruptible is good enough. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually the duration could be upped to 24 or 36 to make it compete with Apply Poison's energy efficiency. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A cheap bad skill is still really bad. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 23:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Poison is better than Bleeding in almost all cases (except when target has Antidote signet) since it is 1 more degen (2hp/sec). Barbed Arrows would be marginally cheaper to keep up compared to Apply Poison if the duration was made 24 to 36 seconds long (with the 10 energy cost kept obviously). You lose 5 less energy for maintaining it (less with expertise) compared to Apply Poison. That is the real issue, expertise hurts the 5 energy difference and the lower duration compared to Apply Poison compounds this problem. The onyl real advantage I see is Barbed Arrows would stack with Poison Tip Signet. Poison and Bleeding preparations would pretty much be the same (i.e. cover conditions for cripple, deepwound, blind, daze, etc.) in usage otherwise. If anything, this needs a duration buff and a cost bump down to 5 energy so that even though it is poor it would be less overshadowed by Apply Poison. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, bleeding DOES combine with things like Gash and that Paragon spear attack, poison does not. Maybe that's the reason? Then again, it is not as if bleeding is hard to apply by a ranger, since they have Screaming Shot. It might just be however that continuous application bleeding might make gash a little too easy to apply. Note that I am just trying to reason why it shouldn't be buffed, so we can counter that argument. Nicky Silverstar 11:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * no that idea fail --62.13.9.2 11:26, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The only synergy of bleeding is Maiming spear (basically conditional pin down on 5 cooldown) and Gash (7 adrenaline +20 or so damage in comparison to 5 adrenaline Dismember or 8 adrenaline Eviscerate). Seeping wound, Lacerate aren't worth your elite slot all they d is added mini degen that you could just use poison for (poison tip signet). Ulcerous Lungs is no different than bleeding + poison (4 added degen). There you have it, all the "if bleeding skills" that are PvP ready . Do note Barbed arrows works with arrows only, whereas Apply Poison works with every physical weapon. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * /demonpossession What annoys me here is what izzy said: "bleedign is not a ranger thing, that's why it sucks". THEN WHY THE HELL DID YOU MAKE IT? To fill slots? For shits n' giggles? /comebacktorealworld... okay... well, I think it may be a tad dangerous to buff this skill, since it combines well with poison arrow :). That being said, there is no reason why this can't be the counterpart of Apply - maybe a little more energy intensive, like 18 duration, 15 cost, but the easily interruptible clause needs to go. --  nuke7    [[Image:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg|11px]] 11:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Buffing it wouldn't make it all THAT good w/ Poison Arrow, cause if you're taking that, you don't have Cripshot or Magebane, two attacks much more powerful than Poison Arrow. 76.89.81.150 21:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I do think the easy-interrupt part is annoying, but right now I use pet (poisonous bite) with barbed arrows and burning arrows for degen and it seems to work fine. - Elder Angelus 17:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Even if this was buffed for Poison Arrow + Barbed Arrows it would still suck because you can just use apply poison with barbed spear. You get better DPS, doesn't consume your elite, and the attack skill costs nothing and is almost as spammable.