User talk:Lilondra/Gamebalance/Warrior/Archive

pewpew
Strong Fox007  20:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC) thx Lilondra   *gale*  11:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the changes overall. The 3 chop change is certainly unique....don't think it's worth being an elite though b.r // talk  12:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Eveyrthing needs to be finished the thing is I'm already showing the basics,where I want to go etc Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  17:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

09/01/09' Small buff to tripple chop other functionality for cleave Lilondra   *gale*  19:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I WANT IT NOW :3 Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig2.png|19px|User:Fox007]] 19:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Il have to dissapoint you ^^ thx for replying though Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  07:30, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

i do think this one needs some damage. I rather hit 3 times more then losing my elite skill. Fox007  12:21, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

At the moment it increases youre adrenal gain with about 60 % atleast.(Because you actually get blinded and such it is nice to quickly get some adrenal gain trough).Now I intend on giving the Conjures seperate packages again to use in conjunction with this skill.The Idea is that the base damage is gone but things like SoH or conjures should still get trough Lilondra   *gale*  14:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

10/01/09' Added balanced stance Lilondra   *gale*  16:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC) added defy pain Lilondra   *gale*  16:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Added WE Lilondra   *gale*  08:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Neat. But a note that it will hit only 1 target with a scythe would be usefull (i guess that's what you want though). Besides that either buff Bull's or do something to griffon's so it will get in line with bull's. Bulls has a faster recharge and bonus damage but griffon's 3 sec kd and melee attack makes it really strong. Fox007  15:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Bull IS also a melee attack.Bulls has + damage and bulls has same recharge.Stonefists insignias automaticly give bulls a 3 second knockdown.So only dervs or assassins will take it.The thing is This will give assassins a knockdown to start there chain with :) Lilondra   *gale*  15:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Didn't say a thing :# other then that should stop at a energy based skill it will then become a nice skill for spiking :3 Fox007   15:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

20 recharge ^^ its clearly meanth to charge up adrenaline will finish warrior today :) Lilondra   *gale*  15:24, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

irritating you once more :3 why is it in Tactics? Fox007  15:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You're not irritating me at all to start with :p I kinda like the attention to my pages xD. Well part of the tactics line is to give commands.The paragon actually is a zoom on the tactics line.The paragon is pretty imba.This really isnt.Because warrior's now pretty much are commanders to but they wont really spend more then 2-3 slots to it because otherwise they could just take a paragon.Yes I intend on totally reworking that class anyway Lilondra   *gale*  15:52, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * i ment that the skill doesn't scale with tactics and it does in strenght I.E keeping the 3 sec starting point which it currently has. Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig2.png|19px|User:Fox007]] 16:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * you're right almost finished now :x Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  16:21, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * no casting time makes it very strong.
 * Ranged Knockdown makes it pretty awsome.
 * will add more later gotto work now :P Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig2.png|19px|User:Fox007]] 16:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Cast time was mistake yh "on your knees" isnt really. Lilondra [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  16:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Much more loveable know.
 * didn't it do that already (besides the recharge)
 * 15 energy is bad for warrior's.
 * Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig2.png|19px|User:Fox007]] 20:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It used to end if you used ANY skill.Wether it was defensive or not.This is another indirect buff to tactics.Healing signet should not end charging strike really.Beserker stance is a great alternative to build up adrenaline now.Due note that you got youre IAS but you CANT spike with it.And finally headbut dazes target FOE for an incredible amount of time how can it *not* cost this much.I've added axe mastery I fear i wont be ready after all :( Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  20:39, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Headbutt is a awsome skill now but in which line it is Warrior's can merely spam 5 energy attacks without WE. and 1 skill costing 15 energy is just to much for a warrior. Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig2.png|19px|User:Fox007]] 20:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Ill give it an indirect buff ;) Lilondra   *gale*  20:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Archive stuff X
I'm bored and came across this, so I figured I'd go through it and make some comments.


 * 1) Stonefist insignia's Now have a maximum knockdown of 3 seconds. Elite skills are excluded.Stonefist insignia's do NOT stack with earthbind.   Did I read that wrong?  Because that's how it works already.
 * 2) Bull's strike does not need a nerf at all.
 * 3) Counterattack: The idea of gaining adrenaline is nice, but the current numbers are hugely imba. 2-4 adren every 5 seconds and with a reduced activation time AND returning its own energy cost?  You can pump out hammer attacks like crazy with something like that.
 * 4) Triple chop: uh, what? Having an elite only for building adrenaline on axe seems pretty bad to me.
 * 5) Backbreaker: that change makes it even worse than it already is. If you were going for making it unusable by assassins, go with everyone else's suggestion to make a fail rate linked to strength.
 * 6) Dstrike: I'm still bitter about the nerf and want a revert, but that version would be pretty nice too.
 * 7) Steelfang slash: it has a recharge for a reason.
 * 8) 'WY!': no.

That's about it. Well, all the stuff I felt a need to comment on at least.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  04:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No the elite thing wasnt there.I'm reconsidering it atm since its a long loop just to get Backbreaker to only give 4 second knockdowns to warriors :) . Bull strike does need a nerf imo and I have 2 reasons for this : a) it's a must to run it now therefor killing versatility and the more you can differ from the meta the healthier the meta is in general b) bull's strike is one of those skills that caused micro to become more important then general tactics in gvg.You just are to busy getting every bull right.My Idea is to nerf it slightly so you get a choice.
 * I won't discuss about counterattack since your completely right.Tripple chop yh I didn't now what to give it so I just gave it something.Its going to be a elite that lives besides the standard eviscerate anyway.Backbreaker I already explained but your right.Dstrike is to much wuvvy to change now xD and WY I doubted to.The thing is that it has been balanced for such a long time (or atleast not breaking the game) that I find it sad to get nuked because of paragons. Lilondra [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok then. In that case, the stonefist change is just a bad idea, because it works as is.  Nerfing bull's is still stupid though.  You nerf skills because they are imba, not because they are good.  That would be like nerfing guardian because all prot monks take it.  People use bull's beause it gives warriors a snare and some measure of movement control like no other skill they have available.  This means that people would still use it in the nerfed form, it would just be worse.  Also, using it correctly takes skill, and using skills that promote skillful play should be encouraged, not discouraged.  Basically, you are wrong, and no line of reasoning you use will make it a good idea to nerf bull's, ever.  Oh yeah, you should look up 'micro,' because you used it completely wrong.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  05:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I came to that conclusion together with a player that has been playing since the start and that is obsessed with oldschool.I might have used micro wrong but I still believe my point stands.Its not like I can test,I try to nerf bull to a point where it no longer dominates on bars but is still viable,although that is hard because it has a rly rly good niche.Now I'd like to note that Mend touch and stride for example also promote skillfull play on ranger but therefor are not exactly good.When utility get imba it tends to not harm the game as much as when damage does.I want to nerf bull's strike because it pushes other perfectly fine skills out of the meta and it keeps people way to busy.
 * I think you misunderstood me btw.I don't hate bull's strike at all.Quite frankly its one of my favourite skills.But while me and atilla were talking we came to the conclusion that quarterknocks are not that healthy for the game and thats another thing bull's strike supports Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In that case, you and your friend are both wrong. You seem to have missed the point about skillful play being good for the game, or not understood it.  The statement about mtouch and nat stride didn't even make sense.  I think it started to go somewhere, but then contradicted itself, so I'm not quite sure what you were getting at with it.  Again on qknocks, it's silly to say they are bad for the game, because you have to play your class well to get them, not just mash your face on buttons.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  06:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Look atilla is one of the most epic players I've met.He has seen every oldschool match and has played top 50 himself (when skill actually mattered) and I never said those things arent skillfull.But something skillfull isnt perse good for the game.Because it might push other things away.I know how to quarterknock, I know how to bull , etc... but quarterknocking often is to easy.TBH I'm just basing my theory on how the game used to be and it might be wrong but I rly like the builds played back then a lot more.I find them more skillfull and more fun to play.They don't use bull or things like that but they make up for it with alot of other things (Evil for example may have run terrible monks at GWFC but you can't ignore the whole shadowstepping thing and the real peak of guildwars had already passed (I'd say that is the match where turling started to see play)).I'd also like to say that I'm not just ignoring your opinion.Its not hard to see by the way you talk that you are more experienced then me and I AM listening and you do have a point.However I still believe in the fact that key skills (bull strike,dshot) are good in the game in some way but have some downsides (they kill versatility a bit and they rly lay the focus on 1 person skill and less on team tactics (did I got that right ?)) . My point about stride and mend touch is the same as the source I linked on the main page.While these both are great skill that promote skill they push other skills that promote skill aswell out of the meta.And a perfectly balanced game may have a meta but you should be able to differ from it. Lilondra [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A couple of things. First, it doesn't matter how much 'experience' you or your friend have, you can still be wrong about something.  To see from you're coming from, maybe you can tell me what you're thinking exactly.  What would warriors take in place of bull's if it wasn't in the game?  As long as it's still playable (as your version is), they will take it, because it does something necessary.  To promote diversity of skill choice as you would like, you'd have to make some viable options, or make it so bad that it's unplayable.  Nerfing a good, balanced, skill for that purpose but not taking it out of play doesn't accomplish anything at all.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  20:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I already know that bull strike is played because of its niche but I was hoping that a slight nerf might make people run endure,heal sig or things like that.I'll explain the rest later just finished my last exam today so I'm bit tired :p Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  21:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok so basicly the reason I'm nerfin bull strike is because a) it pushes also skill req skills (often in a diffrent way) out of the meta and b) It makes you focus on constantly getting that bull right.Yes thats skill req aswell but it does keep you busy enough to forget some nice tactical firework you could be doing (then again I'm meh) Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  20:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Shields Up!
Imo should be +24 armor, If weilding sheild 50% block. -- Halogod35   19:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

/agreed and changed Lilondra   *panda*  20:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Too imba tbh. --Super  Igor   flame my shove sin bar!  15:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

derp derp derp
There are some good ideas in here, but there're quite a few that definitely need changing too. A few that were underpowered before still are, but I"m not gonna bother pointing those out, just the ones that are too strong or got a lot weaker.
 * at the current numbers would be like a non-elite cripshot. Even with warrior's abysmal energy regen, it'd be too easy to maintain cripple.
 * It's not the skill in and of itself. It's the synergy with Knee Cutter that would make this a problem, tbh.  If you've ever fought a good derv, you know that being permacrippled and getting autocritted on every attack is no fun; giving wars the ability to do that would be a problem.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

will update knee cutter Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Removing the deep wound removes the entire point, tbh. Without the DW, it's just another Executioner's/mighty/galrath clone, except not as good since you can't use 16 strength.
 * Cracked armor is a silly condition, tbh. I think that's what needs changing, if anything. Might give it a buff in another way  Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC) [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]


 * Makes it unquestionably superior to sever artery, the conditional aspect was made it balanced.
 * It also promoted baedness. Good warriors use stances, that's not a question.  Having to wait for your stance to drop so you can apply Bleeding, though?  No, the previous function promoted not using stances.  The condition needs to be changed, IMO.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

The thing is this would become a spike skill.Now its plain Dumb Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Short window of opportunity Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't like giving daze to melees, too easy to abuse, imo. Maybe it'll be fine, though.
 * Can't picture anybody using this one, adrenaline's more valuable that energy most of the time.Yh but I intend on buffing thrill of victory and stuff.Warrior weps only though Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If it were 1 or 2, it could be used sort of like Endurance. But at 3, it really doesn't give enough energy to do much.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]


 * I'm not fond of adrenaline interrupts, they're never there when you need them.
 * It's a spike skill, tbh. The only problem with that is that Agonizing is still better.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]
 * Exept this interrupts EVERY time agonizing doesnt I'll give it a quicker cast though Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * No warrior is gonna give up Eviscerate for an attack that only gives 3 adrenaline, and does no damage. :<
 * That, exactly. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

mmm might buff it Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * +70 is waaaay too much. Maybe just make it an ordinary energy attack with a low recharge, but keep it the same as it is now otherwise.
 * At 6 adr, you're not going to be able to chew through a health bar. Lower (half?)  the damage and the cost, IMO.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

mmm will think about it Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Damage when the target's standing is too high for a 5-adrenaline skill.
 * It would completely replace Executioner's. Same damage and covers DW on evisc, for less adrenaline. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  22:49, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Will think about it Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Remove the "if you miss" effect, the penalty for missing with an attack is usually that you don't do any damage. :(  Oh, prolly oughta increase the adrenaline cost to 6 or 7 too, +40 and an autocrit is a lot.
 * It would be like decap minus the DW. You could Bull's -> Evisc -> Agonizing -> Keen and pretty much autokill anything.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

intresting Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Killing the extra second kinda kills the point, tbh.
 * If you change the stonefist to affect 3 sec KD, too, then Griffon's Sweep becomes a non-elite 4-sec energy KD with 12 recharge. In which case it would be better to run another elite.  I suggest giving it some stronger +damages, and lowering the cost, but making the KD conditional somehow.  Fails if the target is above 90% health, maybe?  That way it would be awesome for spikes, but you would have to put some thought into using it. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

Seriously ive changed the stonefist backbreaker gets the extra sec to 4 secs griffon's does not Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Tbh this IS a tactics skill.Putting damage in strength doesnt matter its the knockdown you need Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, but move it to strength. I shove people trying to sell me stuff all the time, and it doesn't take any sort of tactics, just a good arm.
 * Bonus damage seems too high.
 * Tactics sins and tactics dervs FTW. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

Tactic's sins are ok Really,Dervs are not but the problem is the dervish itself not this skill really Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The low duration is gonna make it pretty much useless.
 * Make it adrenal, then. Wars can't keep up that much energy.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

Its more a short period of godlyness its not pressure Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fine as it is, really.
 * Cracked armor is a silly condition for a class that can't inflict cracked armor. Change the condition and it becomes a better skill.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

It can apply cracked armor with this update :p Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC) No it NEEDS the penalty and cast time to prevent it from becoming OP.The heal is enourmous Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem was never the amount it healed for, it was the cast time and -40 armor. Besides the fact that stopping to heal takes out a lot of pressure.
 * That'll make it even worse. Unconditional Sprint or Rush is always better than a conditional like this, which provides no actual benefit over the other two.
 * Chance to block while moving? +damage?  I dunno.  Doesn't have anything on Sprint atm.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

The thing is I want to promote warrior shouts wich i will buff this evening or tomorow ;) Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 50% chance to fail at... what?
 * Knockdowns against you have a 50% chance to fail, I think. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

Yep Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Damage is too high for such a low recharge, and the bonus adrenaline makes it even stronger.
 * Tactics sins and tactics dervs FTW. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]~
 * Problem is scythe not skill itself Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It ain't hard to hit a moving target, this is basically a permanent Frenzy with no double damage.
 * No, it's very hard to hit a kiting target in 6 seconds with no IMS. See my Pious Fury; give this 15% IMS or something.  Otherwise, it just doesn't work.  Unless you're running a non-stance IMS, which wars don't have.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]

ORLY Lilondra   *gale*  11:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This will be insanely good when it's put on thumperfags and scythefags. Keep it the way it already is. Thumperfags got nerfed and scythefags need a nerf.  Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  11:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * --Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 21:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll add more later. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  22:49, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Attention:
(Strength)

Berserker Stance : No.
 * why not ? Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Bull's Charge : I guess that's more useful.
 * A lot more usefull really Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hamstring : No, no, no. This skill already blows, it needs some.. like better stuff.
 * This is a major buff really,you're underestimating spammable snares Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

"For Great Justice!" : Hmm... Would this get rid of the (PvP) version?
 * yh Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Disarm : Yes. :D

"Fear Me!" : YESS, except make it 3 energy.
 * I think it already is quite strong this way Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

"Victory is Mine!" : Hmm, well this skill kinda just blows for the elite status but, sure.
 * Might work in ganks really Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Body Blow : Nope.
 * Yh.This and the fact that you would be able to fucking rape a hammer warrior on command is the reason wars dont have easy to apply cracked armor Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Primal Rage : Nope.
 * Its OP now it NEEDS a nerf Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Defy Pain : That could be helpful cause people always die when these kinda skills end.

Warrior's Endurance : I like the way this skill is right now, because you can use stances with it and yeah, sprint or fail.
 * ATM it is OP yes this is a nerf Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeti Smash : Hmm, melee attack? Cool, I'm so using this on my sin that has death blossom. The only thing that kills it is the only hits one other person thing.

"On Your Knees!" : O: I kinda like this.

Charging Strike : Hmm, I don't see the difference? Does it end on a skill? If so, sure.
 * Same functionality different recharge Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Counterattack : Sure, works for me.

Dolyak Signet : Well, I like how it is now, but one thing for sure.. PvP needs a different functionality.

Flourish : Hmm, no activation? Nice, but those poor sins won't have their spams anymore. But meh, they all use Palm Strike or Way of the assassin. So meh.
 * Its more a buff to warrior's really exept I took away lot of energy attack skills xD Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Flurry : Which attribute?

Headbutt : That works, but kinda make the damage a little less, I could see this go well with Dismember and then headbutt and owning everything.

(Swordsmanship)

Barbarous Slice : Hmm, why?
 * spikes Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Galrath Slash: Lol this is mentioned everywhere but I dunno. It could be useful.

Silverwing Slash : That would be kinda helpful.

Sever Artery : Nah, it just needs like +(Crappy damage) and that's it.
 * Its huge pressure this way Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Standing Slash : Yay for more abuse. :D

Jaizhenju Strike : Nah, it needs an interesting mechanic. This (effect) while fag was moving shit is boring.
 * It isnt it requires skill and punishes random kiting Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Quivering Blade : Hmm, that'll make it easier to pwn noobs.

Pure Strike : Doesn't sound so "pure" to me. It should be like, if target is a virgin, he'll be pwned kinda deal.

Seeking Blade : Hmm, well it needs some sort of seeking kinda of deal.

Final Thrust : How about 9?
 * perhaps Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

(Special Attention: My very very favorite skill that got sent to hell) =[ "Watch Yourself!" : Moved to Strength. Fails 100% if strength is under 1. lol. + armor for 20 seconds. No recharge or "Watch Yourself!" : + armor for 20 seconds. If you're not a warrior, this skill does nothing. No recharge
 * dunno really Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

-- Halogod35   21:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

you have way too much skills that has the condition "if target foe is moving" in it, I'd change some, otherwise kinda nice stuff..(wuhy) 89.134.135.215 16:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I rest my case. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px|TALK TO ME NAO plz. :D]] 12:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think too many skills with "if target is moving" rewards bad play, especially if they KD. Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk 11:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

yh I know I'll do something about it the idea is to actually run them seperatly ;) I'm thinking of actually making unlinked skills a seperate package of non scaling skills only availeble for their primaries Lilondra   *Poke*  17:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

First problem I spot
Berserker Stance. For secondairies, that's a 5/7 uptime no down-side IAS. That's not balanced. Dark Morphon 10:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

lol forgot to change duration :') Lilondra   *panda*  10:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

stonefist insigia
are you actually saying elites like magehunters and dev ham shud b only 2 second KD?78.20.153.111 18:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * oh and lol, Backbreaker with 3 sec knockdown.. it should cost 6 adren or so then78.20.153.111 18:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

No They are 3 seconds.Backbreaker is 4 but uses the stonefist to get the 4 >> Lilondra   *panda*  04:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Critical Chop
is OP. --76.25.197.215 18:54, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

so much fail 86.82.19.96 19:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I love people that back up their opinion this well ;) Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  04:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agonizing Chop. Good enough? --76.25.197.215 04:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that the Critical chop is off.Its the way I get to my final thing really.I write scratch write again scratch etc untill I get the desired result.My point is the other random guy says my whole balance fails. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  04:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

New berserker's stance
Sweet, that plus Warrior's Endurance = win =D -- Halogod35   12:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Oo how ? Lilondra  *panda*  12:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How indeed. Mediggo 12:57, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Both are stance in this update btw Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  13:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, the PvP version of WE is a stance and the universal version of Berserk's Stance is (omigosh) a stance. That's why my link took you to WE's PvE version. Mediggo 13:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * TBH I don't see why I wouldnt introduce both changes in pve aswell OP is OP Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  13:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, my bad. I was only referring to current in-game version of WE, which is still a skill (and I thought you were referring to latest skill update which split WE to PvE and PvP versions). I didn't notice you had made your own version of WE as well. Looks pretty funny concept, actually. Mediggo 13:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)