Talk:Hero/Archive 1

Razah
Listed as "Unformed hero" in the manual, but that is from when he was planned to be class-shifting, i'll get hold of 2 Razahs to see what it gives atm. &mdash; Skuld 07:00, 8 February 2007 (PST)
 * He's always a Ritualist. --Pepe 14:31, 8 February 2007 (PST)
 * Skuld knows that. He wanted to get to know what the duplicates are called when you go outside of town. Somone added it allready. --Gem (talk) 14:37, 8 February 2007 (PST)

Images
These images are wrong, theyr old ones, some of the heroes hav their pre nightfall armor sets and different skin colours. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rmg 171091.
 * All of those armor sets can be aquired in the game. Some of them are elite, some primeval armor sets. And what would be the problem if not all armor sets are correct? The images look nice on the page. I'm adding them back for now. --Gem (talk) 15:36, 8 February 2007 (PST)
 * Agreed. Why remove perfectly accepted material? I'd rather you add a little note explaining that these images predated such and such event rather than removing it altogether. --ab.er.rant (talk) 17:05, 8 February 2007 (PST)
 * BUT ...the two images are scaled differently and who the heck are Kerak and Altoron? -- Snograt   whisper  13:47, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Respectively, Jin and Olias. Apparently that was either made by someone who plays GW in, say, German, or previous names from Beta. Bugger if I know which. Pepe talk 13:50, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * This particular image was published by Reagan Wright of ArenaNet. (see also their edit logs) After looking at the pictures, all names are obviously not final and some of these names probably need to be adjusted to their final in-game names. The characters themselves are of excellent quality and I think that makes the image itself useful for the wiki. I've wondered about separating them to form individual images though. That would aid in turning the images into clickable links that lead to the respective hero pages. -- Jonas N 13:52, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * I scaled the image heights to be approximately the same. I would suggest asking Emily Diehl. He works for ANet and has been supporting the wiki with character armor renders, so he could probalby do some nice renders for the heroes too. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 13:54, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Just off the top of my head, if I had to guess, I'd say Emily is a she.... Lojiin 14:04, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Srry. :D Two reasons for my mistake: A) I'm in fever B) There is a very similiar finish male name. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 14:09, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Those renders actually look great there - very professional :) Seem to be missing Sousuke and Zhenmai. Also Razah - or is he another "spoiler dude?" -- Snograt   whisper  04:57, 28 February 2007 (EST)

TOC
I moved the Table of Contents to the right (again), as it was appearing below the first paragraphs and "Hero Commands". Anyone looking at the page would want the TOC at the top. To save space, I had it share the top with the first paragraphs. If this gets reverted, I would like to know why it can not be done this way, as the previous way was 1. ugly 2. no easily seen TOC (had to scroll down to find it at 1280x1024). EMonk 14:30, 11 February 2007 (PST)
 * We are currently discussing the ToCs at Guild Wars Wiki talk:Policy. Tanaric thinks that ToCright shouldn't be used. Feel free to join the discussion. I'm trying to get a formal style guide for ToCs so that the rules are clear to everyone. --Gem (talk) 14:49, 11 February 2007 (PST)
 * OK. I am going to change it so it doesn't use TOCright, and yet the TOC is STILL at the top.  It will waste a lot of space, but since others don't care about that, they should have no complaint about this.  EMonk 15:11, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Duplicates
What happens if four party members bring the same hero? Do the second and third copies have other generic names? Do they have the same generic names with numbers after them? Do they have the same generic names without any way to distinguish them? -- Gordon Ecker 19:28, 27 February 2007 (EST)


 * According to GuildWiki's hero talk page all duplicates of the same hero use the same generic names without any differences. -- Gordon Ecker 20:32, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * I can confirm that, I've been in a mission with 3 Koss's, one was Koss, obviously, and the other two were both Sunspear Warriors. -- Zalaeth 02:16, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Odd Bug
I recently got a some new armor for my nec and went to Iron Mines to get it infused. I didn't feel like fighting through so i set up Koss, Melloni and Jin to run and just took off for the seer. Unsurpisingly, I got taken down by a group of giants, while thier increased speed allowed them to keep going. I hadn't equipped them with rez skills for the run, so I just led them step by step with the flags. A funny thing happened though: After about 2-3 radar screen distances, no more enemies spawned. No White Mantle manning the catapults, no Mursaat, no annoying spell breaking griffons, nothing. Just the easiest run I've ever had till they reached the cut-scene spot and pulled me to them.

Has anyone else ever had something like this happen?

Now, if only Heros could zone parties. . . :D -- Zalaeth 02:25, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Yeah, it's been like that for ages, it was one of the first thing I tried back when Nightfall was released. And yep, they can't go through portals, which kinda sucks; for the infusion part in Iron Mines it works since it's just a cutscene. If I remember correctly it also works in the Ring of Fire and The Wilds mission, which also have cutscenes (probably other places of that kind as well). --Dirigible 02:36, 9 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Me, the no-players-only-heroes player, and I still didn't know about this. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 06:22, 9 May 2007 (EDT)


 * I wonder, could this make Hard Mode missions easier? -- Dashface [[Image:User_Dashface.png]] 07:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Salvage Runes and Insignia
Does anyone know, if something is destroyed if both, Runes and Insignia, are on an armor part and you try to salvage one of it? The article states it is risk-free, but I think it is possible that this only applies to armor parts itselves that will not be destroyed. I hope someone can clarify this a bit. Der moon 06:45, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
 * When salvaging something out of hero armor I have never had anything destroy, and I think it's impossible for an insignia or rune to be destroyed if the armor itself isn't destroyed. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 08:03, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
 * You can't destroy the rune if u salvage an insignia from hero armor and vice versa. In normal items, your armor piece is the one that gets destroyed if u fail, not the rune or insignia that you left behind. They're just gone because your armor piece is gone. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 23:31, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
 * OK, thanks for that information. :) Der moon 06:02, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

Combat Mode
So will a hero in Guard combat mode use skills that target allies? Kiteeye 00:43, 17 May 2007 (EDT)KiteEye
 * Yes! (and you don't need to add "KiteEye" - the 4 ~s do that for you ;) -- Snog  rat [[Image:User Snograt signature.png]] 00:47, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

No Image for Razah
anyone have a good image for Razah? Shinjinbukai  06:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

retain Hero cost section?
Should we retain the Hero section? It is true that runes and insignia cost gold, but I don't think this is something to be held on the Hero page. To me it has more the character of a personal opinion. Der moon 06:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't believe the section is necessary, although that's probably because I've spent like 10k total on all of my heroes. Also, most of the information in the section is common knowledge/obvious. Players who are interested in Hero Battles are more likely to spend more, but I highly doubt anyone would spent 5 plat on all 15 heroes. --Torak321 06:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, not as it currently stands. It reads more like a veiled whine than something trying to be informative.  --Valshia 07:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've rewritten the whine and rant to something more acceptable. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 07:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think the hero cost section is needed at all. Heroes can get by with just collector items/bonus items and runes/weapon upgrades one would normally sell anyways.  Or do what I do, which is use my heroes as STORAGE for cool gear I already had but couldn't equip all the time (e.g., Koss got my spare Chaos Axe & Strongroot's Shelter, along with the Sup Axe rune that was just taking up space).  Comparisons like a full set of heroes costs as much as ascended armor is not very accurate.  IMO, the hero cost section is explaining something that is really trivial. --Ctran 01:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is, it's just that the original writer of that section was quite touchy about people editing it. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 01:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I fully agree, though it stands true that equiping heroes is more costly for people playing less, since they will have less spare greens/cool stuff in their inventory. Since those are also the ones with less money, the problem might seem trivial to regulars, but not quite so easy for casual players. --Xeeron 09:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the initial sentences are enough: "The flexibility of heroes make them very useful, but they can be expensive to fully equip. Upgrading their armor and maxing out the weapons of a hero [can cost] 3-7 platinum. This is without considering the costs of high-demand runes (Superior Vigor, Superior Fire Magic, superior monk runes, etc.) and perfect weapon upgrades." After that, the section goes off on if you spend money on ascended armor it will only improve your appearance, but if you spend money on hero equipment it actually improves your play, and did you know that the extra heroes from GW:EN will make it even more expensive but improve your flexibility? ;-) Anyways, I suggest we remove that section (which contains more text than any other section on the Hero page). Or shorten the section to the very first three sentences (everything else seems like an obvious conclusion you could draw from them). --Ctran 19:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't have many spare greens or "cool stuff" but my heroes are equipped fine with things I've obtained from casual play. Collector weapons work the same as greens, and anyone who has heroes has Nightfall, where the free treasure chests often spit out something that may not be perfect for your favored build, but can easily be made to work with a hero (several of my heroes are wielding golds from these chests, and the mods may not be max or perfect for the situation, but they work). Bcstingg 02:01, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Quests that change your Hero's armor apperance?
What quests change your hero's apperence? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:67.141.144.9.


 * There are no quests that change your hero armor, but you can aquire items that can be used to change the hero armor in some challenge missions. See the armor section of the page for more information. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 09:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it seems that they were initially planning on doing it through quests, as they mentioned the possibility before the Nightfall PvE preview weekend, but ultimately they decided to go with challenge missions instead. -- Gordon Ecker 09:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Hero Cost Section
The last two paragraphs are horribly written, with poor grammar and a very speculative tone. I suggest it be deleted. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.232.154.72.
 * I see spelling issues, not grammar issues, so your "horribly written" point is a poor reason. Also, there's nothing speculative about it. Estimations yes, but I don't think they're speculations. We don't delete content whose only fault is that they should be reworded. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 23:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right. The last paragraph is speculative. Apologies. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 00:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the issue wasn't "grammar" per se, but readability was poor. I cleaned the section up a bit and edited for brevity, removing some points that strayed off track and were rather obvious anyway (such as the fact that saving up equipment for future EoTN heroes might take a lot of storage slots). I also think major runes are a more logical alternative to superior runes if you can't afford the superior rune (minor runes are often appropriate, of course, but they're hardly a good substitute for superior runes if the problem is money, and for many attributes the minor rune is the expensive one). However, I can't say I really agree with the cost estimates; it hasn't cost me anywhere near 75 platinum per character to equip heroes using collector weapons, drops, and mostly major runes, although I suppose it may cost that much if you just bought everything outright. Bcstingg 01:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Hotkeys for Hero Skill bars
Dear Arena.Net -

Could you please implement a schema for hot-keying equipped Hero skills (perhaps in a regularly scheduled game update)?

Here is a suggested schema:

Hero in party location 1 = Shift + the numbered keys 1 through 8

Hero in party location 2 = ctrl + the numbered keys 1 through 8

Hero in party location 3 = alt + the numbered keys 1 through 8

This would allow players to overcome AI shortcomings by keying the preferred usage of the Hero's skills. Clicking on their miniaturized skill bar is too clunky of an interface during combat, IMO. Thanks Jkyarr 22:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * problem with they keys you suggested, alt shows NPCs and ctrl is used to call your skills so that wouldn't work at all.--TheLordOfBlah 19:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But the idea would be useful in micromanaging the hero skills so you could run things hero's normally can't, such as splinter weapon. 76.102.172.202 18:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Target Bug
I've been checking, my heroes dont use blood ritual on me, nor in another human player when our energy is low. But they use it on another heroes. Also, my monk cant use mending touch on herself (she only had RC and Mending touch, and she never removed her conditions). Can anyone also try this to see if this is a general problem? ĸıjı ( ♪.♫ ) 00:40, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Heroes don't like to sacrifice large amounts of health. An exception to this is Blood of the Master if there's a lot of minions, since they probably don't calculate the additional amount first. With Blood Ritual, they probably also won't use it until a person's energy is at a certain (low) percentage of their max. From what I've seen with Mending Touch, they use it more as a healing skill than condition removal. IE they tend to only use it when someone's health is low enough to trigger their wanting to heal. Capcom 01:29, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is a general problem I've seen before. Quite frankly, hero monks would rather die than remove conditions/hexes from themselves.--Valshia 01:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is that they do use blood ritual. But they only target other heroes/henchies. (Atm i dunno if they also target human players with mending touch). They never use it on a humam player. With mending touch, i've seen my hero monk using it on another heroes/henchies while RC was recharging, but never on herself. So i'm guesssing that they have a target problem.. Because when heroes first came out they did used BR on human players..

Well checked on Isle of the Nameless with tahlkora. She died with poison because she didn't used Dismiss Condition on herself. And, using 4 bonds, i put my energy on 0 but Olias didn't used BR. So, i really think that the heroes got a target problem. Can anyone do the same test to be sure pls? -  ĸıjı  ( ♪.♫ ) 13:55, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Question: was Tahlkora enchanted at the time? Perhaps they use Dismiss Condition as a healing skill as well, like they do with Mending Touch, so she might use it if she's enchanted. And I do find it odd heroes won't use Blood Ritual on players, Claude and Eve do still. Capcom 20:03, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes she was, with one of the bonds. And no, Claude doesnt BR me. That's what i find odd. Neither the hero's nor the henchies target me for BR. But they still do heal me and stuff.. Weird bugs. - [[Image:Verata%27s_Gaze.jpg|20px]] ĸıjı  ( ♪.♫ ) 21:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Heroes don't use Dismiss Condition on themselves while Mending Touch suffers from a different bug that makes the AI only use it on themselves when they're out of range of their allies. Blood Ritual is used on players but only if the ally has caster weapons equipped (staff, wand, offhand item), which does make sense otherwise they'd be running into battle to BR the warrior. The trigger seems to be when the ally drops below 2/3 of his total energy. Blood is Power seems to be bugged, the only way I can get them to use it sometimes is by switching weapon sets. --Draikin 00:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

GWEN Heroes
I think Gwen will be a hero in GWEN... There is a screenshot on the main site that shows Gwen wielding an Air Wand and and Inscribed Chakram. If she is a hero she is probably a Mesmer.Vox 20:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Confirmed information only please. No speculations, no matter how likely it appears to be. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 01:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Any idea if we'll be getting any other norn or asura heroes aside from the 2 we already hv confirmed? [Z. Ametefe] 9:10 p.m. August 5, 2007

Professions (secondary)
Stupid question i know but is there any way for you to get rid of your heroes secdonary professionthe way you could when Nightfall first came out? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.74.126.173.


 * No, once you pick a secondary for a hero they're stuck with having a secondary. I wouldn't worry about it though.  There's almost no effect in having an unused secondary in game play, and if Fingers of Chaos is an issue, just switch it to Mesmer.  --Valshia 17:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The way I got rid of my heroes' secondary professions was to fill their skill bar with all primary skills and no attribute points invested in 2ndary profs, save the skill template, and load it to the heroes to get rid of their secondary.--Bane of Worlds 17:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Does Fingers of Chaos affect secondary profession? If not, then there's no reason to remove secondary. Alaris 18:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The notes on the skill says that the Fingers of Chaos affects BOTH the primary and secondary professions. Also, Bane of Worlds, are you SURE that your tactic removed the secondary profession? I just checked it and it isn't working for me. Help? [Z. Ametefe] 9:18 p.m. August 5, 2007 --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.74.126.173.


 * It removes the secondary from the template, but not from the character. -- Gordon Ecker 03:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, loading up a non-secondary template just retains a hero's existing sec profession, it will not remove it entirely.


 * And Ametefe, are you sure you don't want to register an actual account? Signing manually like that doesn't really give you an identity because you're still logged by your IP address. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 03:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry Z. Ametefe, it doesn't work anymore apparantly(retested)...the method I mention worked when there was a template bug so I am guessing that was also fixed...at least you can switch to another prof that wouldn't be affected by Fingers of Chaos--Bane of Worlds 21:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok Thanks. Also Ab.er.rant the reason i don't create an account is because I'm just too lazy to do so [Z. Ametefe] 9:55 p.m. August 5, 2007 --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.74.126.173.
 * Lol, we have vandals who get so enthusiastic and so misguidedly proud as to claim they can create a new account in 15 seconds. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 04:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is up to the individual to register or not:P--Bane of Worlds 21:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea, I know, it's just if Ametefe would really like to participate in this community, I just think he'll get more recognition and attribution by registering an account than using an IP that's not uniquely assigned to him. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 02:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Anyone know why/when they removed the option to allow your heroes to return to only their primary? [Z. Ametefe] 2:01 p.m. August 8, 2007

Taiwanese manual
This shows all the heroes in GW:EN. We obviously don't know the English names of the other 4, so I only added Gwen and Livia to the list for now. Capcom 08:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone translated the names and profs recently in the forum of the manual. Are these confirmed as official? and should they be posted into actually pages with Jora *drool* and Ogden and the rest? [Z. Ametefe] 1:10 p.m. August 8, 2007
 * The name translation is rough, so someone has asked Gaile to confirm the English names. We'll have information up as soon as it's available-you can count on that! --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Hedda
I've added missing Heroes from GW:EN: Anto, Zandria, Hedda and Camus. Third of them has the same as one of the NPC's from Heroes' Audience. Any ideas how to split articles, to make linking good? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Fett.
 * For the last time, those aren't their English names. How about we just WAIT before adding!? -.- Capcom 21:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please wait for official English names before adding them. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 01:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Official English names for the four remaining heroes
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1138/1048808448_7ca055ad54_b.jpg Looks like it's:

Xandra - ritualist

Anton - assassin

Hayda - paragon

Kahmu - dervish

--Heelz 01:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Hero AI
I noticed some heroes use skills difrent then others, for instance acolyte sousuke casts aura of restoration first, and then his atunement, Zhed however tends to cover his atunement with his aura of resotation. Whats the point in this? I'd rather see u can manipulate the order heroes use their skills in, since GW has to be build up in a OOP manner this wouldn 't be that hard to make it right? Or just make a better AI where skill combinations are learned. I find it verry weird that Zhed does it the way i want and sousuke doesn 't. Changing the order of the skills doesn 't affect it at all, however this makes an SF build rather pointless since you only have one ele hero that covers, so the otherone will be out of energy in no-time. 84.192.118.21 09:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're attempting to make a suggestion for how hero AI should be changed, it'll get more visibility if you post it in fan forums. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 01:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I question your findings, given that I've seen them apply enchantments seemingly randomly. Capcom 01:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

RUmor: GW:EN Heroes won't be available at:
Tyria(Ascalon,Northern and southern shiverpeaks,kryta,maguuma jungle,crystal desert and fire islands.Nightfall heroes could not be accesibble at GW:en places.Any comments?(This isn't 100% true,but possible= --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:212.90.82.240.
 * I say BS Mitchel 14:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed... what? Alaris 14:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I say this is either BS or misunderstood. See, there was an interview, and someone asked if we'll be able to use the Nightfall heroes in Eye of the North. The response was "you'll use the EotN heroes, which you can take back to Prophecies and Factions." So, either they answered that really oddly or it sounds like NF heroes can't be used in EotN and EotN heroes can't be used in NF. I'll try to find the interview. Capcom 07:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Found it:

IGN: Do you get access to the heroes from Nightfall?

Ben Miller: No, you get access to the Eye of the North heroes, and you can take them back into Prophecies or Factions.

I can't tell exactly what the question and answer mean. They sound like they literally mean "you don't get the NF heroes for owning EotN," but that's an incredibly stupid thing to ask/answer. And then he only happens to mention taking them back to Prophecies and Factions, rather than just saying any game, which is very odd. I think I'll ask Gaile to clear this up. Capcom 07:52, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm interpreting it as "Do you still get heroes even if you don't have Nightfall?" "Yes, and you can take them to other campaigns.". -- Gordon Ecker 08:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Context, context, context. Given that the preceding question/answer is:


 * IGN: And there'll be some new heroes in Eye of the North, right?
 * Ben Miller: Ten brand new heroes, and the coolest part of Eye of the North is if you own Prophecies or Factions but have not bought Nightfall, you can use heroes without having to use Nightfall.


 * I'd say they are talking about those who own EotN and not NF. --Valshia 08:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I expect they wouldn't do something insanely stupid like making the two sets of heroes separate, but technically he never states one way or the other. Gaile's been asked, so we'll find out definitively soon anyway. :) Capcom 08:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure they asked exactly what you think would be too stupid to ask -- if you buy EotN, do you get access to Nightfall heroes, even if you don't own Nightfall? The answer is "of course not", but Ben Miller answered it more tactfully, making it sound like there's more to his answer than there is. Considering you can already take your Nightfall heroes anywhere, preventing their use in EotN would be silly. Bcstingg 17:55, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's exactly the way I understood that interview. I haven't even thought it could be interpreted in another way... -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 02:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Trust me, Aberrant, if something exists, there will be people to misinterpret it. Doesn't matter how simple or obvious it is. And if anyone's still unclear, Gaile confirmed that the sets of heroes are not separate and can be used anywhere. Capcom 06:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Clarification on Heroes
Hello, Gaile, I wondered if perhaps you could clear up something for us. There was an interview with IGN about Eye of the North in which the following exchange takes place (in the middle of the part between the two pictures here: ):

IGN: Do you get access to the heroes from Nightfall?

Ben Miller: No, you get access to the Eye of the North heroes, and you can take them back into Prophecies or Factions.

Could you possibly explain what this means? It sounds like the question and answer are literally to the effect of that you can't get the NF heroes by owning EotN, but that's an odd and obvious question/answer. Further, why does Ben specifically say you can take them to Prophecies and Factions, rather than just saying to any game? Does this mean that NF heroes cannot be used in EotN and EotN heroes cannot be used in NF? Is there some kind of separation between the two sets of heroes so that they can't be used in the same party? If you could, please tell us exactly how the heroes will work in these ways. I thank you in advance for your time! Capcom 08:02, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe that the question and the answer are based on the unspoken assumption that you do not have Eye of the North. A more literal phrasing would be "Does Eye of the North provide access to the Nightfall heroes?" "No, you need Nightfall for those heroes, you can take the Eye of the North heroes to other campaigns just like you can with the Nightfall heroes". -- Gordon Ecker 08:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As I already said, that's what I expect as well. HOWEVER, people are already spreading misinformation about the fact and he never directly states their status, so I think it's beneficial to get an official statement on how it is. Capcom 08:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know. I agree that we should nip this rumour in the bud before it starts spreading. -- Gordon Ecker 09:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean to be rude. My intention was to explicitly state the most likely explanation in order to mitigate the rumours prior to an official clarification. -- Gordon Ecker 09:55, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you're taking the question and answer out of the context of the rest of the interview. Note the last part of the answer just before this question: "...if you own Prophecies or Factions but have not bought Nightfall, you can use heroes without having to use Nightfall." The question is based on that situation, where you have Proph and/or Factions, but not Nightfall. - Tanetris 11:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Once again, I know that's most likely what's being said, but people are misinterpreting it, and there's no actual evidence in the interview that the heroes can be used together or in the others' games. THUS, I'm asking so this stops. -_- Capcom 20:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Common Sense ftw - elviondale (tahlk) 20:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * First of all, I've dropped Ben a note and I am sure he'll let me know about this soon. However, what would be very helpful for me is to know where people are misinterpreting what Ben said, when what he said is in context with his preceding comments. If I know that -- a forum link, a place where the concern has been expressed -- I can then clarify the matter for everyone, rather than just posting it here. Thanks for any information that you can give, and I'll post when I hear back from Ben. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 01:36, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure where else (I can try searching if I have more time), but the person who posted the currently-bottom topic on the Hero talk page (can't link directly because of the title used) apparently heard that the EotN heroes are unusable in Prophecies and the NF heroes are unusable in EotN, which is even more distorted than the initial misunderstanding. :/ Capcom 06:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The Answer: In the interview, the preceding question had been about a player who did not own Nightfall. The next question was about that same theoretical player, and Ben’s answer was pointing out that GW:EN provides you with GW:EN heroes, and what his answer is intended to state is that those heroes can journey back to any game that the player owns, be it Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, or any combination of the three. --Gaile 17:32, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Official Manual - English
The english manual has been released obviously with a lot of lore and info including hero names and bios. What's the wiki policy on copying directly from the official manual for the hero bios? I started to do it and then stopped as I wasn't sure we allow that as it is a form of plagiarism, but this is the official wiki and we don't exactly source info anyway, any advice on this would be great. Dancing Gnome 08:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, the copyrighted content policy allows the use of text from the manual and the main website. -- Gordon Ecker 08:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Kahmu & Xandra
Added Kahmu and Xandra to the recruitment section. I put them before Jora as they are recruited at Gunners Hold if you defeat them in the tournament. Because the tournament opponent is random it can be frustrating trying to get them to spawn. Dancing Gnome 13:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't kept literal track of the opponents I've encountered, but I swear I've always faced Xandra on the 2nd round, and always faced Kahmu on the 4th round. I have a feeling each round/quest has certain characters, with perhaps a few characters appearing in multiple ones. Capcom 17:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's being documented at the Norn Fighting Tournament. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 04:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Heroes - moar powar?
Hey Gaile. :D I think it's really cool that you talk with all the players and everything, so I figure, I might as well ask one thing that's been bugging me since I got Gwen. (the hero)

Do you estimate that we'll ever be able to keep more than 3 heroes in our party? I have six maxed out heroes, and I can think of so many nice things to do with them. Even if it was just one more slot for heroes (so no one makes any crazy UW-farming builds) I would love it.

I'll understand if you cannot answer at this time. Vael Victus 13:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess that the reason they did not allow more than 3 heroes is to promote interaction in the game. Having 7 hero slots avaible would pretty much take out the "multi-player" element of GW. --Xeeron 13:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 9 times out of 10 I'd guess that the people who fill 3 slots with heros will fill the last 4 slots with hench, so i doubt it would make any difference. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 16:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's it, Chron, I do. =P I hate partying with players, only with my friends that I know own. Also, I'm not saying we *need* all slots, but even one more would be nice. These are HEROES, after all! Vael Victus 18:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It would be way too easy to farm loads and loads of money with an all hero party. After all, you'd be able to make builds that work together perfectly. This is much harder to do with an all-human party, because everyone has their own preferences and playing style. A combination of two humans and 6 heroes is pretty much ideal imo.Sadric 17:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Meh, I don't think thats too much of a concern. and btw, I can hero UW with just a Necro, so thats not really a concern either.  I think Xeeron and Chron got it - elviondale  (tahlk) 18:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, my friend just took me on a farming run with a single elementalist. Anyone who's that interested in farming will be farming way more "professionally" than that. Also, they'd have to at least get to the point of HAVING the heroes be that good, which should count for something. ;) Vael Victus 18:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've answered this before, but in a nutshell, the Hero design is such that they are more powerful than henchmen. The design team does not want to create a situation where players are encouraged by the Heroes' very design to build parties with Heroes only, foregoing the social interaction that is such a wonderful and desirable element of the game. In other words, Guild Wars is not primarily designed to be a single-player game, but instead is built to (gently) encourage playing with other people. You're absolutely free to do otherwise, and we know that many do. But we won't build mechanics into the game that almost encourage people to solo it. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * And the above DIRECTLY contradicts Jeff Strain himself, who at the GC conference just said: "Don't underestimate the importance of solo play! Sometimes your friends aren't online, sometimes you want to kill 30 minutes while everyone groups together, and sometimes you just don't want to go to committee on every damn decision. The quality of the solo play experience is just as important to the success of an MMO as the quality of the multiplayer experience.". You can find discussion of this beginning on this page (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463339&page=30) of a GWO thread. ChaoticCoyote 22:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * How is that a contradiction? Jeff said "don't underestimate importance of solo play", which is fine. Gaile did not say that solo play is not important. She just said that the game is not primarily a single-player game and that is also true. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 06:40, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In multiple poll on multiple GW websites, 75%+ of the population believes that having full hero parties would make solo play more fun. It is not a matter of wanting heroes to avoid people or make the game easier; full hero teams would increase fun. The change would not be game breaking in any way, given that the current engine already supports one person + 6 heroes through use of a second account. At this point, ANet is indeed underestimating the importance of "fun" in solo play, and that choice is a contradiction of what Strain said at GC. ChaoticCoyote 16:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, the desire for 7 heroes is about having more fun, not making the game easier. Those of us who are going to play with a full AI team would rather use the AI players we've spent time leveling up, equipping, and selecting skills for. ArenaNet spent a lot of time on heroes -- They have 3 armor sets each, 4 challenge missions designed solely for getting them new armor, and loads more personality and backstory than the henchmen. Anyone playing with 3 heroes is just going to fill the team out with henchmen anyway, so it's not like the limit encourages grouping. It's just that when I'm playing with AI, I'd rather play with the AI characters I like. Bcstingg 02:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If I had 7 heroes, I'd bring in 3 Searing Flames, 1 MM, 1 Volley / Broad head Ranger, and 2 monks with group heals and group protections. But that would make the game easier than having to do with henchmen builds and being forced to choose between the ranger, the MM, and the AoE nukers. Alaris 16:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you are very wrong Gaile. Heros with 3 alone removes the social element from Guild Wars. The only advantage to the social element that heros give is filling in missing holes in parties, but most people who are worth partying with these days bring 3 heros and 4 henchmen. In most missions and quests I can pin my heros/henchmen ahead of me and go afk, wash rinse repeat - they do it all for you. I used to love puging before nightfall but heros ruined that. Nowadays it can take forever to form a group, and the frustration of doing things with inefficient groups can make things very hard. If I have energy problems I run a BiP hero, if I want a MM I bring Olias, if I want to do something quickly I load two SF eles and a MM and I sleepwalk 95% of missions. The entire design of heros AT THE MOMENT makes it so experienced players with unlocks don't need other people, and are discouraged to bring them over the sheer efficiency of heroes. I finished GW:EN easily with heroes, not a single thing was challenging to me except the final mission because I couldnt control them to avoid the lava so I just run Recovery + Recuperation and Spirit Spam and it was a joke. Saying we don't allow 7 heroes because it will prevent players from grouping together is like telling someone not put too much weight on the table or it will break, after the table has broken - the damage is already done! Three heros and the good builds given to henchmen in GW:EN have removed the need and usually the want to play with pugs because they suck compared to heros. I've been in some fantastic pugs but more often than not they are horrible, and missions which take 15 mins with heros take 1 hour and 30 mins with pugs. Having said all that, I still pug ocasionally to remind myself why I dont do it. I party with friends or guildies often to, especially with dungeons,not because I need their help but because I enjoy the multiplayer aspect. My point is if I had 7 heros I would pug just as much as I do now, not less, not more. I pug when I want to, when I can, and I hero hench the rest of it, sure I think 7 heros would be great, I also think no heroes would be better, but that will never happen. Dancing Gnome 17:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

(reset) I'd also like have 7 heroes in PvE. Just because I don't like having to choose which of the heroes I like to bring and which to replace with henchmen. If super-powered-hero-micro is a concern, just remove hero controls when the number of heroes in a party is > 3. Thus you trade in-battle control for set-up control. - HeWhoIsPale 15:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * People are thinking too much about how heroes are going to make the game easier. First off, the game's easy as it is. I had very little trouble in the hardk0re area that EOTN was supposed to be. Now on top of that, those people are also thinking about the advanced players who can AFFORD to equip their heroes well. A newbie in my guild only has like one hero because she's still collecting skills and getting money for the runes. I still can't believe they even limited us to three. I tried a party with people yesterday to kill something in Slaver's Exile, and I quit after 10 minutes (literally) of waiting for a monk. I said, "We can just use heroes!" but my heroes suck. Oh except for the fact they're better than any noob monk we'll get, especially since they're maxed out. My last words were, "Have fun spending an hour to find an MM." because I was MMing. I left the group, got called an asshole, and went on my merry way to pre-order TF2. Boy, I sure do love humans. Vael Victus 20:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Full Hero Parties
Many, many of us have posted in many threads on many forums about this topic. I'll be very direct in beating this dead horse to its fullest:

1) All the encouragement in the world won't magically generate players in empty outposts. Try doing Eternel Grove or Dunes of Despair on Hard Mode with henchmen or PuGs.

2) Guilds are NOT always an option for everyone. If anything, saying we need to leave our current friends and family to join a different guild DESTROYS the social atmosphere of the game.

3) In spite of the above, I have tried to find a HM Guild. One was a scam to get people to farm Kurzick points for an alliance; another required people to be on every night at specific times (I have a life and family). Given their decision, ANet has essentially said "Guardian titles aren't for you" to everyone who is not a member of an establish HM Guild.

4) Of all the vocal minority who claim that full hero parties would "ruin" the social atmosphere of the game -- NOT ONE of those folk have stepped forward to help any of us who have asked for it. Where are all these "social" people who are willing to help with Guardian titles?

5) There is no valid point for having 25 heroes when we can only use 3 at any time. It is a waste of time and resources to equip 25 heroes when only a handful will ever see use.

6) Allowing full hero parties provides a whole new level of strategic and tactical depth to the game, by allowing us to build teams, ala old-style computer RPGs.

7) Few things are worse than a half-measure. On one hand, ANet gives us heroes and henchmen so we *can* solo, and then they gimp them (bad henchmen skill bars, 3-hero limit) to "encourage" us to be social. This is, quite simply, silly. Either eliminate heroes and henchmen entirely, or let us use them to their full potential.

8) PEOPLE DO NOT PLAY SOLO BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN OF HEROES. Sorry to use caps, but Gaile's argument in this case COMPLETELY IGNORES what people have said in these very forums. People play solo for a variety of reasons, including frustration with PuGs, unusual or chaotic schedules, and the enjoyment of building teams.

9) Allowing more than 3 heroes does not break the interface. The game ALREADY ALLOWS solo players to use more than 3 heroes, through access to a second account. Heroes beyond the first 3 can be treated as henchmen for control purposes -- problem solved.

I PuGged my way to Protector titles on all three campaigns with two characters; I spend a lot of time in the more unusual outposts helping people with quests and such. That won't change with the introduction of full heroes; however, without full hero groups, I'm likely to leave the game permanently after I finish GW:EN. And if I'm playing WoW or LotRO or something else, I'm not being social in GW nor buying GW2. ChaoticCoyote 14:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, but you are wrong. Guardian can be reached without a HM guild (I got my legendary guardian by playing alone H/H or with pickups, less than 10% was groups from my guild). Heroes do replace PUGs. Why should I ever enter a PUG, when not only Dunkoro is more reliable, always ready, but also brings a decent skill bar? At the moment, you still need 2 humans for those hard missions, which can not be easily H/H'd. Introduce 7 heroes and good players will never use a pick up group again. --Xeeron 15:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I already don't use PuGs. Why? Because 90% of my weekly play time is during my lunch break and I don't want to screw over a bunch of people when something takes too long and I need to return to work. Not all of us avoid playing with other players because bots are easier to control. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 15:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm in a similar situation. I have a few hours to play at night. But I have a baby, and there could be interruptions. I don't want to be unfair to other players. I also don't want to spend half of my available time getting groups together. Also, I might want to do something like FoW, but for an hour or so. Most groups want to clear it or farm it. So I either don't do it, or do what I can with just 3 heroes. And if I want to do old content like Defend North Kryta Province, forget about it. -- bcstingg (talk • contribs) 15:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

As it stands now PUG'S arent really worth the trouble but some missions can still benefit from a PUG. I do it only when i feel like socialing and dont really need to get something done, cause chances are you probably won't. With Full Hero Parties, there will be no need to play with PUG'S ever. This would make outposts only emptier and for those who play for a more social time missions would be impossible. -Z3Ro-

Hero Kiting
There needs to be an option to disable your heroes from kiting. I often have my heroes running off and aggroing other groups when they try and kite, its really annoying. If you could disable heroes from kiting, you could keep them in wards and the like as well. Even when flagging the heroes they kite way far. My point is that, more often then not, heroes kiting cause more harm then good, and we need an option to disable it. Thanks for reading.--Teh Uber Pwnzer 02:07, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

And then, they will quite literally stand in AoE. Besides, merely switching them to defensive should solve most of the problem you are having. Readem  Warning: Ignore this User if at all possible.  02:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * no, i agree. if theyre in AoE just re-enable kiting. its annoying having my nukers running around in pve when they should be killing things =( &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 02:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No matter what mode they are in they will kite if there are melee enemies attacking. They kite out of where I want them to be(I often make an ele hero take ward vs harm) and aggro everything in sight. Ive flagged my heroes somewhere to avoid aggro(defensive mode) only to see Dunk run an aggro bubble away as soon as any melee attacks. I hate it. Btw, love the sig Readem.--Teh Uber Pwnzer 02:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've watched Dunkoro run over an aggro bubble away and aggro 2 extra groups on defensive too. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 02:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * O: then I must have micro skillz :P. jk, an yeah my sig is awesome. Readem   Warning: Ignore this User if at all possible.  02:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Pulling is your friend. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:User_Poki_Signature.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]] 02:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * IMO heroes should never kite outside either the owning player's aggro bubble, or an aggro-bubble sized area centered on their respective flag. --Tankity Tank 03:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Pulling is one way to help but it doesn't do much when General Morgahn takes a single hit from a Margonite Executioner and starts kiting all over the place, you would think with a base 80 armour that he would take a little more abuse before running for his life. Broodling67 03:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Pulling also doesnt help keep your heroes in a Ward or Well.--Teh Uber Pwnzer 03:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * What about making it so that, if you hold shift while planting a flag, it uses a smaller radius than planting a flag the normal way, and uses a different colour of flag to indicate the differeence? -- Gordon Ecker 03:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * On a less-serious note, a big "STOP" button would be nice. Hit it, and your Hero stops doing whatever they're doing, be it kiting, maintaining seven enchantments on two people, or casting Light of Dwayna an aggro bubble away from the corpses. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  03:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Totally on board for a "Stop" button. Preferably with a in-game voice, shouting, as I do at my monitor "Stop, you fool, you're going to get us...*dead*" --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 06:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with this completely... i actually put a post like this on the guildwars suggestion page 2 days ago. I really want this to stop all my heros and henchies from running out of their wards/wells or aggroing while kiting.
 * I vote for a stop button or 'no kiting' button too. Not necessary, but would save some time micromanaging my heroes. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 08:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Weird. I'm reading all this and wondering what I'm doing differently than all of you. Heroes seem smarter than ever, and micromanagement is way down. Sure, they kite, but within the general area where we started the fight, and they never aggro anything else. The only extra groups I get are the ones that wander into range, and that's my fault for not spotting them sooner. They never stand in AoE -- I've seen them all head off in different directions as soon as an Ice Imp drops its Maelstrom, for example, but they don't go too far away. I stand in AoE more than they do. I always pull groups that are close to other groups, and they all wait patiently at the flag until I've brought some things back for them to kill. I don't doubt that the rest of you have been experiencing issues, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's related to play style or perhaps profession (I've been playing Assassin and Paragon recently so I'm a little closer to the action, perhaps the issues show up when playing casters?) Bcstingg 14:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Man... I'm thinking of the one Asuran quest in the dungeon... I can't remember the name, but its where you have to stay close to the golem to be protected from the darts... Not fun with heroes. - elviondale  (tahlk) 14:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I did that one with heroes (me and a friend, each using his 3 heroes) without problems o.O Not even the hero's pet died, although it did tend to stay at the borders of the circle. I agree with Bcstingg, I only notice a problem when I'm trying to attack something that is on a different level, and the melee heroes go all the way around to the nearby ramp in order to attack it. Can't say I have had any problem with kitting, though. Erasculio 14:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Erratic kiting is only some of the problems I have noticed with heroes, they have randomly stopped following me with no explanation while just going form point "A" to point "B" with no enemies near, and they constantly ignore lock-on commands and called targets even if I do both at the same time. This is more of a request rather than a bug but while we are on the subject of AI would it be possible for heroes to try and stay inside of beneficial Wards and Wells, obviously fleeing from AoE or heavy damage would prevent them from staying in it but if I lay down a Ward against Melee its usually better for the monk to stay put and heal any damage that gets through rather than run and not heal at all. On a side note perhaps we should move this to the AI issues discusion page instead. Broodling67 22:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * i think this shows how the ai kiting can lead to problems http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Gw098.jpg (lo sha is in there to... just didnt show him)
 * There problem there is your flag placement. If you place a flag, heroes and henchmen will kite a full 360 degrees around the flag on all sides and ignore your position. Zhed's position is not surprising. It's useful for melee characters to place a flag off of their position (usually behind) to make sure casters stay back, but for casters, if you set your flag in front of you, you may have other caster heroes far on the other side of it like Zhed is. And if you want heroes in a ward, you need to stand in it yourself without a flag, or center your flag in the ward. There's no guarantee they'll stand in it, but they'll be a lot closer than in that picture. Bcstingg 13:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Bcstingg: In your former post you said that you aren't experiencing such problems and said it might be because of play style or possilby the role that the players play. Me and my girlfriend play touch rangers, ie we fight on melee range, and we don't need to use flags in most situations. When we do, we know how and where to place them since we've been playing with henchmen form the beginning and started playing with heroes immediately after their release. I've always coped with the changes done to the hench/hero AI, but this time there definitely is something wrong with them. I'm not sure if they've made the area used by the heroes around the player/flag larger or if they have certain conditions now that let them ignore the player/flag, but whatever the cause is, the result isn't good at all. Just yesterday had my Master of Whispers use Necrotic Traversal on Dunes of Despair and got him on the other side of a ravine. Ther e I placed a flag for him so that he would stay near enough for the monks to heal while the rest of the party attacked the Scarabs attacking him. Soon he completely ignored the flag, ran far away and aggroed a boss, died and forced us to restart. Not exactly what a flagged hero should be doing. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 13:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting; I haven't seen any new issues during combat, even playing with the same character (melee range as well). I wonder why some are experiencing major issues and others like me none at all. I have seen the bug of refusal to follow, so I'd agree something has changed, although it's not clear what. I haven't seen anything even remotely like what you're describing, but I'd certainly be annoyed if I did. (I'll also add that when I play with my wife, heroes are well-behaved and the game seems easier than ever. So it's not a difference between me playing solo and you playing with 2 humans.) Bcstingg 15:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * @Broodling "I have noticed with heroes, they have randomly stopped following me with no explanation while just going form point "A" to point "B" with no enemies near" - this happens a lot when there is an enemy spirit near them. They wait until it dies, until you command them to kill it or give them a waypoint before moving. Very irritating.. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 13:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to add my two gold pieces to this... since Eye of the North came out, I was primarily going through the game with my necromancer. Then went with my ranger. Neither of them had significant problems. My warrior, however, is having a devil of a time. The primary reason for this is that Dunkoro runs in circles, running away from enemies. So my warrior, rather than actually doing damage, is just chasing after the enemies. It's rather ridiculous. It makes me want to bring some sort of skill that will cripple my allies.
 * And yes, heroes and henchies can't stand spirits. Dunno what's up with that, either, but I'd really like to see it fixed (lost a survivor-in-progress because they all stopped, so the enemies all focused on my squishy elementalist). --Nkuvu [[Image:User_Nkuvu_sig_button.jpg]] 05:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hero Brain Drain
Ive heard multiple people over many days commenting on this.... is it just me and the rest of the player community Ive seen talking about this, or has something in eye of the north made hero's into blathering idiots? (more than usual i mean) Ive had hero's rushing to the full length of sight range too melee attack a creature, when 1: there a caster and 2: i have the hero flagged at my position. also, melee henchmen will NOT take aggro. to get the melee characters to start attacking, you have to close to just outside agro and ctrlclick the mob. they used to be better about it. whats up? with the ridiculous difficulty of some areas of EOTN (the area outside gadds encampment, the shards of Orr dungeon, heart of the shiverpeaks and the last 2 ""missions"" we really need the AI fixed on the henchman and heros. if its broken. if its not, they need some type of improvement so they don't act like hecket or devourers or hulking stone elementals. in theory, a human hero (or centaur, asuran, dwarf or charr hero for that matter) should be more intelligent than your average creature. -TehBuG-
 * I am willing to bet 2 plat that you are used to playing with heroes set to "guard". Some of the heroes you newly aquire in GWEN are set to "offensive" and therefore produce the above behavior. One click on your hero menue and your fine. --Xeeron 15:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, Ive had the same problems too. Ive also had a problem where the henchmen/heroes stop following me for some reason, and I need to go nearer them to get them to follow me again. [[Image:User-brains12-scale-sig.png]] brains12 16:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Forgot to add that I've been using my NF heroes with Avoid still on when needed, and whenever I use a GWEN hero, they are on Avoid when needed. [[Image:User-brains12-scale-sig.png]] brains12 16:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also experienced horrid "kiting" and random "I'm not going to follow that stupid flag" from heroes lately. Can't tell if it was introduced with GW:EN though as I haven't played a lot during the summer. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 17:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I can corroborate this. Lately my heroes/henchmen seem to gain a mind of their own and refuse to follow orders. Sometimes a couple of them would just stop following me all of a sudden and I'd have to backtrack and rein them in again. Sometimes one of them would randomly decide to ignore the called target as well and go do its own thing. It's gotten to the point that I've been spamming called target just to be fairly sure that everyone is on the ball. Svartalve 23:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's pretty bad now (not that it was good before, mind you). I usually PvE on my ele, so I'll start casting spells right outside aggro range; the heroes won't respond to that at all. I'll use Rodgorts on a mob of casters, and they'll start casting back; but my heroes will just stand there. What's the deal with that? Do I absolutely need to walk up to every mob like a tank just to get the heroes to attack? (I can't flag heroes in either, cos they don't do anything until they reach the flag point, by which time they're half dead). - Auron 23:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, been playing a lot of the EotN end game today and I'm shocked about the current hero AI. They compeltely refuse to do stuff at times. I've experienced almost wipe out situations when one monk suddenly stops casting and moving and sometimes a random ranger or two decide to run to the opposite direction than the rest of the party. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 23:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * YES IM NOT CRAZY! ^.^ too adress an above point no i make sure my hers are on guard from the momment i aquire them, even if i dont use them. i'll add them, gut them on guard, load a build and kick them again. so, potential bug found. whoot. everyone start complaining to support... there notorious for not being all that supportive... ;) -TehBuG-
 * I have to agree - before GWEN my Tahklora would have to be very hard-pressed to allow anyone in the party to die, but now she seems to be simply...stupid. She absolutely refused to heal the dying tank (yet she had well over 50 energy at the time, and all of her skills were ready-to-use/not recharging). The massive kiting that heroes tend to do gets them killed more often than it saves them. Refusal to stay in wards, refusal to follow flag commands, and (God only knows why on this one) refusal to cast a simple Protective Spirit on Person A when they are getting mobbed for massive amounts of damage by Enemy B-Z. The monk hero wouldn't even offer a complementary healing to Person A! Now, I know increased death/damage rates can be attributed to the crazy difficulty of some Eye of the North areas, and other hero problems can be attributed to play style, but going from being able to tackle Hard Mode in Tyria and Elona on my Indomitable Survivor (he lost the ability to progress when I forgot to turn it off for a certain mission - Modok Crevice I believe its called - ...died right at the end due to a spike from archers above me, simply because my heroes refused to lay down the AoE on them without me walking to my doom...) to not being able to walk across the street without my heroes kiting their way into oncoming traffic is ridiculous. My play style isn't one to constantly put my party into suicidal danger: I play strategically, pull groups, and fall back when needed, and even earned my Indomitable title through tanking the enemy and holding the front-line so my casters could do their job. I had grown to trust my heroes' AI, with the few problems here and there, but nothing as blatant as it is now. I mention the Survivor point just to show how far (in my eyes at least) my heroes seem to have fallen. They don't act Artificially Intelligent any more. I for one (and some others above me it seems) would really appreciate a button to Disable Hero Kiting, maybe even an AI tweak to encourage them to utilize Wards when they are up too. With an option like that, I might be able to return to the good ol' days of semi-smart hero AI, instead of their current "smart when I want to be" AI. 67.9.75.129 01:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC) --Lokharte
 * I could mention that I earned Legendary Survivor (all with heroes/hench, that's a lot of play time with them), and my heroes seem as smart as ever. So I think we're just looking at some subjective opinions on either side, and it would be nice to have some confirmation from someone at ANet that either something changed or it didn't. I've seen the occasional bugs previously mentioned -- heroes strangely refusing to follow, monk heroes letting people die (a few weeks ago; I've been using monk henchies recently so I don't know if that one still exists). But the kiting I wouldn't consider a bug -- my squishy heroes are taking less damage because of it, and AoE is not as big a deal as it used to be. I haven't had a problem with difficulty in GW:EN because the heroes and henches are performing so well. Against dinosaurs, for example, Twisting Jaws is a particularly nasty skill, but with Mhenlo and Lina around, no one ever dies from it. (Off-topic -- the best way to handle Moddok Crevice IME is to flag your heroes directly underneath the bridge the archers are on. They'll run in and take the initial spike and you can run in behind them and stand under the bridge where the archers can't hit you. After that lock your spellcasters on the archers and they'll kill them. I've taken 2 characters working on Legendary Survivor through there with that method and it never felt risky). Bcstingg 13:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In recent days, I've seen my Tahlkora (set to Passive) run passed my ranger to lead the charge to the enemy so that she could be the first one to be in aggro range yet not fight ^ ^. Something is clearly wrong with that girl.  Maybe this is Anet's attempt to re-popularize the PUG? --Ctran 19:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

A few observations from a veteran PvEer who hero henches almost anything in the game: --Karlos 10:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hero/henchie AI is unchanged.
 * Henchie AI is unchangeable, so if Devona is aggressive by default there is diddly squat you can do about it. Mhenlo is on guard by default so if you call a target, and your SF ele decides to use a glyph before going in, guess whos going to be the first to wand the enemy... Yup, Mhenlo.
 * There IS a bug in making heroes break aggro once they've charged in to use a skill. It's most notable with warrior and offensive casting heroes/henchies, but you can see it also in monsters. When doing the splinter barrage margonite farm, I would have a Margonite Seer follow me through thick and thin all the way outside of the radar range of her group, until she cast Ether Feast on me, then she'd relax and go back to them. The same happens to henchies. If you call a target and they set out to use a skill, and then you pull back, sometimes they glitch and will NOT pull back with you and will go waaay outside of any barriers of aggressive/guard mode to finish that all important cast. In that case you need to pull them with the flag, it's the only thing that wakes them up.
 * Hero/henchie AI in dungeons needs to be updated. I think their AI is fine for up to nightfall, but they're not all too used to dungeons. I am referring specifically to traps. The areas with traps that fire at you pose a serious challenge to hero/henchie healers. Trying to cross those fire traps with that protector golem and heroes and henchies is a royal pain because they refuse to pull fully to the flag when they are close enough to it and someone needs a heal. So, Mhenlo lags behind insisting on healing and constantly falling outside the protective ward and getting slammed by the traps.
 * The new bug with heroes who stop following you when they encounter spirits definitely exists. This can easily be verified on The Isle of the Nameless by letting the Master of Spirits set up a spirit nest and then letting your heroes walk through them. A second new bug (or an update but not exactly a good one) is that heroes now finish casting spells before responding to your flag commands which isn't exactly fun when you're trying to get them out of AoE attacks. This can again be verified by letting your hero cast Meteor Shower and quickly changing the flag to a different location. --Draikin 00:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I will definitely ask the designer to take a look at these issues. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 00:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Am I only one who has issue with heroes that think I'm too stupid to know what I'm doing when I command skills? Such as an SoR monk being attacked, I say, "SoR yourself!" click the little icon while targeting monk, then monk just stands there, casts no spells, and dies after 10 seconds?  It's really things like this that make hb...less than a waste of time.
 * I am also a veteran PvEer (10 characters, most with 3+ max titles) who almost always hero/hench, and I have to disagree with you Karlos. Tahlkora set to "Passive" never use to run toward my called target and stand behind enemy lines.  I've seen her and Dunk do that on several occasions recently.  Koss (stance tank build/no spells) did not aggressively chase after non-called targets outside of aggro before.  They seem to pick targets themselves (not necessarily the target you're attacking) more often these days, and stick with them for longer.  It almost seems like an attempt to make heroes/hench less coordinated and more random --Ctran 20:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. The AI for kiting when hit by ignite arrows is ridiculous. If Koss is the target of Charr rangers, he'll be kiting for the entire battle, still be hit by arrows, and not ever attack himself.

Finally the hero AI is up to par with PUG's ^ ^. -Z3Ro-

Full Hero Parties
Yes like the other guy who did a wonderful job explaining the advantage of having a full hero party I need to put my 2 cents worth. I think the heroes are GREAT wonderful, and best part of soloing some quest.

1. Most of the time I play there is usually not many real live peeps that KNOW how to play to survive elite missions, mission, and quest; therefore a great subtitute for me is my heroes. I have spet time and money equiping my heroes like real peeps. I should be able to have a full set of heroes in my party. As far as of setting the balance of community play...bs... I still only play with my small guild hall and friends...

2. WHY have 25 total heroes. For people who started from the beggining 2 years ago and are still playing need to make use of the heroes. I would like to be able to use at least 7 other heroes that I have aquired to do a missions, quest, or farming when most of the world is asleep and/or is not playing online. Have ya been to Nightfall in some areas... nobody is there, better yet try Sorrows furnace with henchies with out getting frustrated (heroes alot better)! How do we get real peeps if they are off playing GWEN or Factions(lol). Making the best of the hero situation would solve some problems... I still use 3 heroes and the rest henchmen. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Usil951.
 * Since you're obviously talking about the same thing as another section above, the convention adopted on this wiki is that you continue that discussion by adding your comment to the bottom of that discussion, not start a new section. Also, you may be interested in the "Please note:" section below the "Save page" button on how to sign. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 18:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Kurzick hero??
Hi i was just curious on how the luxons got a hero while us kurzicks get the cold shoulder? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Hinaruto.
 * Because it'd be a bit overused to have yet another kurzick-luxon rivalry between NPCs? -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 19:48, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Kurzicks look cooler than Luxons so it's a shame that they decided it this way round. Well, I don't think this matters at all tbh. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 20:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Can heros drop ashes?
Is there anyway to tell your heroes to use, say... the ashes of blind mingson, and then drop them when a warrior or something starts hitting em?--WikiWu 22:55, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, the lock target button functions as such when a bundle is held. Backsword 22:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sweeeeet. Thanks I never noticed that, was that always there lol? and Holey Crap was that a fast response O.O. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:WikiWu.

Hero wish list
i cant think of any more off the top of my head...
 * the ability to pick up items
 * being able to control npcs i guess thats not a hero thing but not havening a npc rage in and argo everything would be nice.
 * letting heroes zone for you
 * making it so healer heroes could target yourself so if your running or need to keep a npc alive it will just heal that npc or person

Hero quotes
Having a section for the Hero quotes is very appreciated by me :). But I have a suggestion. Because there are somtime a great many number of quotes, the pages of the heroes are getting quite big. So, how about a sub page for the quotes for every hero? Balwin 18:29, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Balwin :) Sure we could do that, but is it really very messy/cluttered to put them all onn one page? More opinions from others would be good. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 01:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think they're fine where they are. The hero articles aren't nearly as large as the weaponsmith articles. -- Gordon Ecker 02:20, 12 October 2007 (UTC)