User talk:HH LEADER/Archive 2008-08-22

Hi, sign your comments with ~ please. Guild Wars Wiki:Sign your comments has more info. -- Brains12 \ talk 16:47, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep the guild category discussion on a single talk page - don't spam that crap around until a decision has been reached. You've received virtually unanimous opposition to your changes/ideas, yet you still plow on with these messages. Stop. Pick a single talk page where you want to discuss the issue until consensus is reached. Once consensus is reached, you may go around and change stuff across the board. I'll leave the choice of talk page up to you, but please stop disrupting the wiki without proper discussion first.
 * So far, you've spammed it on four pages. Category talk:Guilds by nationality, Category talk:Guilds by nationality or territory, Category talk:World guilds, and Category talk:Guilds/Category table. Pick one and stick to it until consensus is reached. If consensus is against you, changing articles and creating unnecessary categories anyway could be viewed as vandalism. Thanks. - Auron 13:57, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Auron. You will not see my postings any longer save for responses to other Guild leaders to my pledge posted on Category talk:Guilds/Category table. My postings were not a spam but fair discussion until it turned out to direct insults towards me and you may call my comments crap, it's OK. You are slipping again with that from the position of your imaginable righteousness. Response to discussion I started was not "virtually unanimous" but mostly from 3 users including yourself from whom I already had enough insults. If expressing an opinion that differs from yours the 3 of you consider a vandalism, there is nothing I can do about it. It seems that the consensus has already been reached. Not sure if I will be in a mood to answer any further messages from 3 of you. But just out curiosity: are you somehow compensated for the job you are doing for this Wiki now or hoping to get something in the future? It’s not that anything wrong with that. Just to be sure about your real reason to use offensive language in conversations where you claim observatory and judging rights. Do you have them? 12.10.219.37 16:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Never once in all the 'fair discussions' did you acknowledge anyone else's position or arguments other than to tell Faer that categorizing his guild as English speaking would be equal to categorizing it as American and that to create even MORE categories for time zones would be equally sufficient to meet his needs. There were more than just 3 people commenting as well. I have not treated you disrespectfully, or insulted you while you have thrown out accusations of conspiracy and assumptions of intent. Before you try to change a system, you really need to understand it, and you quite obviously don't. Everything I have said to you was an attempt to further your understanding, but you have chosen to make assumptions based on your own bias, rather than consider the alternatives. Should you choose to leave the wiki, I will be sorry, because I don't like to see any potential contributor leave, but it is afterall, your choice, as has categorizing their guilds by nationality been the choice of MANY guild page editors. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 16:57, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Conspiracy theory is your sole assumption. You did called what I wrote absurd and ridicule. Thank you for trying to further my understanding. May be we can help each other. Let's assume that you doing good service to Wiki just by categorizing nationality/territory. You may know that this terms have differnt meaning. In your categorization you have mixed territory and nationality giving priority to nationality. This is fundamentally wrong. Let's consider Faer's need. He said that he marked his Guild as American to get players who speaks same language and plays in same time zone. American stands for both territory and citizenship but not necessarily for language. There are plenty of people in America that do not speak English, yet may play the game. From game prospective he wanted only those who speaks English and plays in his time zone. He did not want American citizens speaking Cantoneese. He did not want Americans residing in time zone 3-4 hours differnt than his, did he?

Defining game time zone as player's time zone [-2 + 2] + language could solve his problem without advertising himself as American only guild. This actually could turn off some Canadians who otherwise will be interested. And if he wanted only American citizens or people residing in USA, he could say it on his Guild page or when interviewing someone.

I hope I am making myself clear on how the same result can be achieved without pulling national card and how nationality can be a show stopper in achieving his actual goal to increase his Guild numbers.

Or ,for instance, if there is a guild that speaks only, let's say, Polish, I am sure that they can find time window to play together while residing on differnt continents.

And again, what is your definition of 'territory'? Is that a country or continent? Some big countries like USA, Canada, China, Russia have up to 8 hours time zone differneces, so defining themselves as say, Chineese, do they say it is language or territory or time zone by that? Language, perhaps, but we have same view on language,- it is necessary.

Most important of all: what we can achieve by not advertising nationality so straightforward is to help young minds to think beyond boundaries they leave in. That's a fact that many teens playing this game. Wiki is forming them one way or another.

If you calmly think of what I am saying you may yet find it rational and not absurd.

RegardsHH LEADER 19:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The wiki does not advertise, politicise, or protest for/against real-world "injustices". Please understand how the wiki works -- many people have already tried to explain. Nations are fact, and categorising by nation is in no way putting forward a politically motivated stance. It's not our duty or responsibility to broaden the minds of children and their perspective on the world -- that's what parents, school, or books are for; not a wiki for a game. Any perception of such is far-fetched and simply wrong. If you want to protest against national restrictions, use something other than this wiki. Wikilawyering will get you nowhere. --[[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 19:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I thought I was answering to Wyn. And she was the one who wanted a dialog to continue. Good luck with your categorization.HH LEADER 19:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Indenting
Hey, quick hint about leaving comments that are indented: you have to indent each paragraph. I know it's kinda a pain, but a single : will not indent all your text. --JonTheMon 17:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the hint! I am very new. Appreciate your help.-- HH LEADER 18:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Make a user page
If you're going to make policies and such you really need to have a userpage. even if its just one line you need one. &mdash; Seru    Talk 01:50, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you Seru. Wyn already suggested that to me before. I am interested to contribute, not sure if in area of making polices. Now looking for template and information how to apply one to the page being new and all ;-) HH LEADER 02:36, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If HH LEADER wishes to create a user page, that's fine, but don't give the impression that it's required. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 02:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I seem to be wishing to stay. It also seems that I would need a personal page because you just suggested to me on your talk page that it would be a proper place to file my thoughts for discussion. HH LEADER 02:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And fill with user boxen &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk 02:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ROFL Seru! You and your boxes! --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * HH, if you want to create a guideline draft, start it on a subpage of your userpage, until you feel it's ready to be moved to an actual proposal. That way you can at least get an idea of people's thoughts before it becomes official. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 04:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for a suggestion. HH LEADER 04:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Copyright issues on images you uploaded
Hello! Welcome to the Wiki and thanks for your contributions. Some of the images you have uploaded (listed below) are copyvios (copyright violations). Due to this Wiki's copyright policy only images and text from either a GFDL or an official ArenaNet source are allowed to be uploaded here. The images you have uploaded come from http://www.chineseastrologyonline.com/, which clearly states that all content is copyright Allen Tsai, 1994-2008. Mr Tsai has not released the images under the GFDL so they cannot be accepted here, and will be deleted shortly.

The images:

Image:User_HH_LEADER_E-Dog.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_C-Earth11.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_E-Sky7.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_C-Sky7.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_E-Dragon.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_C-Earth5.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_E-Sky1.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_C-Sky1.gif

Image:User_HH_LEADER_E-Sky4.gif

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Thanks, --  Indochine  talk 18:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sent a message to Indochine for exact link: could not find any copyright message on this site myself. I must have missed it. Waiting for response...HH LEADER 18:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk page formatting
I made a couple of adjustments to the formatting you added to your talk page so that users can still add sections/comments using the + and to give the text a little padding from the border. -- Wyn 18:47, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, where do I get template for a box clock like on your talk page? It's very useful.

Thanks--HH LEADER 18:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)