Talk:Flux

Commentary on Flux
So, basically, it's just research so they know what builds are overpowered? It's really not that hard to tell. –~=Ϛρѧякγ  (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 01:03, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No, each month a new environmental effect is put into certain PvP formats to mix things up a bit. This month is Lone Wolf. It's not research. -- Konig / talk 01:25, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * (this one was before your message but it never posted) Perhaps. I was thinking it was more of forcing metas and new builds for CMs. If Flux disadvantages the best builds in CMs (and I mainly play CM, the best builds have been stagnant for A LONG TIME), then people should change so they aren't weak. Anyways I think if they balance skills on it, they are going down a slippery slope... skills shouldn't be balanced due to Flux because that action assumes that Flux is available everywhere, therefore balancing a skill for Flux would likely make it weak where there is no Flux. I go back to it again and again: when something is too powerful or ridiculous in ONE place, balance it ONLY for that area. Expand (PvP) > (Arena name) only when critically necessary. Previously Unsigned 01:29, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * "The introduction of Flux is a compelling tool to help us keep our competitive formats dynamic, while allowing us to further balance the game. Because slight shifts in the meta are expected from Flux to Flux, it allows us to better target overly problematic builds. If powerful builds can thrive in environments that are not suited to them, we can review the skills to bring them more into line. We want to encourage gameplay where the team that wins does so because they've played more skillfully."


 * "The Flux system is the precursor to several improvements that will be coming in a PvP-specific update. We'll be taking a look at improving some titles, the incentives to play, the rewards for various formats, and more."


 * I don't know why they can't just slightly nerf the powerful builds instead of targeting them once a month with a temporary effect, to only nerf them if the effect didn't remove it from play. Sure, it attempts to mix things up, but after the meta is targeted, it will go back to the same meta next month and continue as if almost nothing happened or just literal FOTM. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 01:55, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You're apparently not getting it. This is not targeting builds at all. It is targeting how people play (e.g., strategy) not merely what they bring (note: It could effect builds brought and most likely will, but the Flux mechanic is more for how to play). It's not meant to be a nerf for powerful builds. Also, it's automatic unlike a monthly nerf would be. Also, I don't think it'll "go back to how it was" since the effects won't go away, merely change. This month you get a buff for being outside of earshot from allies, next month it may be, idk, extended conditions (I am literally making such up, don't assume that's a too-be-implemented effect). -- Konig / talk 02:02, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just thought I'd add an opinion to the "Lone Wolf" effect you mentioned. Despite the 10% damage bonus, the 10% more damage taken is what makes it interesting.  Forces the player to evaluate his/her playstyle and adjust accordingly when needed.  I'm looking forward to the further Fluxes that'll come out :-) Donutdude 19:08, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the idea is to alter the meta a small amount every month without changing the skills, so that it can easily be changed back (and take on a new effect). This way people will get less bored waiting for skill updates. At the same time, they hope to show up builds which remain powerful regardless of the flux; these are probably overpowered, since even minor nerfs from unfavourable flux effects don't make them unpopular. So, it's something to help them balance but at the same time be more interesting for us. Might end up being a bit of a gimmick, but could be pretty cool - I guess only time will tell. 86.147.7.94 08:23, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Just JQ and FA?
The article seems to suggest that only Competitive Missions (i.e. The Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood) are affected but is this true? --Combatter 01:29, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What the hell!? I could have sworn it was not in RA, but I see the effect there too!. Previously Unsigned 01:41, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Where did folks get the idea that they meant competitive missions. Dev notes says competitive formats. Format!=Mission. Iirc, it should effect all PvP. -- Konig / talk 01:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Since outposts are also under this effect, I can state that guild halls, HA, Codex, RA, Zaishen Elite/Challenge, and the PvP form of the Isle of the Nameless are effected. My question would be if it effects Dragon Arena, Rollerbeetle, Snowball, and Costume Brawl. Most likely, Flux is mechanically tied to PvP (effect). -- Konig / talk 01:57, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I can say for certain that the flux is not in effect in the Dragon Arena (not that it really matters there, though). 75.201.94.85 13:02, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually it would matter for use of Imperial Majesty. I saw the icon in the outpost but didn't bother going inside. -- Konig / talk 20:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure it is in effect in Dragon Arena. 90.212.250.210 17:44, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Anybody wanna extract the image from the DAT file?
I've never done that before, but we could use the icon to the right of the article. Previously Unsigned 06:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There's no icon for Flux, just the various kinds (e.g., Lone Wolf). -- Konig / talk 20:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Flux itself is not a skill or an effect. It's more like a 'type' of environmental effect, and lore explanation of a mechanic. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 22:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This mean we can get the images from the next few months??!?!?! ~Nelson (n122333)  [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]]
 * That's what I was talking about! I was thinking the icon for Flux would not change... I mean look at the current one. It looks like a flux, not a lone wolf at all. My guess is that the icon will stay the same, just the text will change. Previously Unsigned 03:56, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ehh, i don't think thats a good move on ANETS part-to hard to (for the newbs) to tell when it changes. ~Nelson (n122333)  [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]]
 * It's a good move. Only those that bother to read will notice the change. People should read more. I find every day people that use their skills without actually knowing exactly what they do. And sometimes they even ask other players instead reading the skill description! It's true that some descriptions are not very clear, but most are. People should read. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:01, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * But how will i know when to check it? I would like a slight change so i can say "Ohh... New flux, lets read it."  ~Nelson (n122333)  [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]]
 * You can check anytime after a new month comes, all you have to do is hover over the icon. If it's different than the last thing, it changed. No one will charge you for hovering the mouse over a icon and reading a short phrase after the last update. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

See, the icon DOESN'T change. Only the effect. It made sense then because it was so obvious. I like that happening. Now to wonder where to stick the icon in the article. Previously Unsigned 02:06, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Unnecessary Convolution
Headline pretty much says it all. I get the appeal in a way. GW should be a game with strategy (strategy being what you do to plan for the challenge, tactics being how you handle the moment to moment changes in the challenge). So I'm not sure why this sounds so unappealing to me. Maybe because CA (which also theoretically helps one have to be involved in build design) failed so bad (by failed I mean there weren't enough people playing.... one of my favorite PvP types on the rare occasion there were a decent number of different opponents to play). Maybe because I still don't like things being unique to PvP vs PvE. Maybe because I know this will make it harder for the casual player to be competitive (unless they only PvP the first day of the new Flux). Maybe because ...see headline. Anyways, an idea with merit, sure, but "things that make me go ...ewww (doesn't mean my "police-instincts-gut-feeling" is right by any means). --Mooseyfate 16:10, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ya.. I think CA needed more rewards, (200 factions+ a kill?) ~Nelson (n122333)  [[Image:User N122333 sig image.jpg|19px]]
 * Rewards aren't the answer -- I might play it for the faction, but it'd still be a bore for a player like myself. Codex Arena was stupid in my opinion just based on the fact that it didn't have a static set of skills -- there's no room to play "your way" when your skillset is changing perpetually.
 * It'd be an improvement, I think, if they had laid out a subset of skills which were always playable, and were specifically designed to be balanced and then, if randomness is really necessary, add in some random skills each time span to spice it up. I might not be able to play competitively relying on only the static skills, but at least I could play the stupid game the way I want to, even with some limits. There's no fun for me in winning (or losing for that matter) either with a build copied off the internet, or just "dealt" to me randomly. --Kite 02:12, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the biggest flaw of Codes Arena was the immense amount of limitations and restrictions placed on players. Firstly, it was not random, therefore cutting out the people who just like to go in and play and those who don't have PvP buddies (be it via friend list, guild, or alliance). Secondly, as Kite said, the constantly changed skills made it bothersome since every day you had to go with something else - if it changed weekly or monthly, it may be a different story rather than daily. Finally there was the 1 profession per team, limiting who you can take when you're forming a team if you fall into the first issue. I'm sure there's more I don't list, but rewards isn't the sole issue - those who think it is are just conditioned by video games via the Skinner Box scenario (something I hope slows down in video games but most likely won't, especially subscription games) . -- Konig / talk 02:34, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Tbh Konig most of those things you complain about were implemented specifically to add balance to the arena that other arenas lacked, and to fix some of the problems Team Arenas had (i.e., people running 3 monks). The "point" of Codex was to imitate sealed deck play, where you were dealt a shitty list of skills and did the best with what you had - in lieu of letting you pick from a randomly populated tiered skills list, they simply forced it to change every X hours (a subpar solution, but then the entire arena was a subpar solution, so I guess it fits).
 * There are definitely flaws with it, but Codex wasn't supposed to be exactly like Random Arenas. - Auron 02:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Auron, I wasn't meaning that those were poor design actions, rather I meant that from a casual player's perspective (perhaps even a hardcore PvP'ers), those make the format less appealing - that it isn't merely the lack of interesting rewards. -- Konig / talk 02:56, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd play CA if it was random teams. I don't know 3 people who want to play it with me, and I don't have the ranks to get onto the few teams that form there. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 03:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel that's the case for most people. Those that want teams go to HA or GvG. Those that do not want to wait to form a team go to RA, and CA is left alone. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So much ^this^ and what Konig says. It started off with 9 districts when it went live then dropped to 1 in 2 days b/c the MATCHING SYSTEM WAS SHIT.  There's no other "AH HA" moment to be observed about the way it's set up or the skill choice limitations or the poor UI.  Contributing factors those may be...they sure didn't hurt Costume Brawl which was even more limited. Why? B/c No one wants to spend every minute getting PuGstomped by Rank-Snobs or oraganized smurfers (guild teams) all on Vent together.  The worst part was Linsey told us they'd change the matching system or atleast allow a random ladder but they never followed through on it. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 23:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * But you know what the best part about codex is? You can match manipulate your way to max codex by getting together a group to take turns /resign ing since noone is there to interfere! Z  encow [[Image:User_Ox_rider_Sig.png]] 09:00, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeh and then you get banned beacuse manipulation of matches =( so no is no good idea--Ivy Thunder Goddess 17:13, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

When does it change?
as above when does it change will it be towards the start of each month or at the end of the month just as Lone wolf was? 82.22.107.194 13:38, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably the beginning of the month so players have a chance to get used to the effect. The end of the month timing was probably just a coincidence due to where the update fell. -- FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 13:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It will probably change after the MAT -- R i ddle 06:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Since there was no update to add it.
Maybe .dat miner can go check the next few fluxes, if they are put in already? Sennar talk 22:38, 3 June 2011 (UTC)