Feedback talk:Game updates/20110217

DERVISH BUFF!!!!!! R U Who U Want To B 00:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * And Asuran Scan nerf lol. • • • Mora  00:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * My pants are tight!! --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 00:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Nerfed BUH, nerfed Asuran Scan, Dervish update looks cool I guess... but I'm REALLY mad about the changes to Asuran Scan and BUH... Way to fail. ®emi¢k§ 00:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Im taking asuran scan with me on my next vanquish. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  00:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ...BUH rez... wtf.– User Balistic B d-dark.pngalistic 00:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the BUH res. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  00:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * FAIL! well I'm really disappointed now for Asuran Scan. It's completely useless now. Rangers have remove conditions, and i don't go to a team without it, DP was never problem (unless for party effect) this is so idiotic now. Did just Red candy and Green Candy lost all meaning? I mean one candy would fix my entire DP. I refuse to be satisfied with skill cause now ranger's don't have high dmg attack skills. At least, make it a chance 10-50% that i will do more dmg like before..don't remove it completely. It's freakin PVE skill...no point in nerfing it..unless you gonna make some part of the game easier which you won't. (no) --Ireth Tassartir 00:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I like Asuran Scan as a way to quickly remove DP (even though I have many stacks of candycanes), and the new BUH I imagine will be very helpful in situations like: You're vanquishing. Your entire party (except you) has 60 DP. You have one big boss group left. You attack them and kill your party quickly. They resurrect each other. You have no way to win the fight. Instead, You attack them. Your party dies. You use BUH. Your heroes spike them. Win. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  00:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * If your party has 60%dp you're doing something very wrong... Johnny User_Johnnyrodrigues_Signature.jpg 00:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm just lazy. I haven't given my heroes any runes, they still have the default weapons, and I'm only half paying attention to the screen. I usually just click an enemy and do something else and check back in a minute... I still have not been able to vanquish Joko's Domain. It's my last in Elona. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  01:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Derv buff where? all I see is a nerf.User Fantil Swift Sig Icon.jpg antil   Swift  01:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I love the spells that require adrenaline. That made me crack up so sadly. 000.00.00.00  01:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Why complain about this? They aren't going to come out and say, "Oh it was all a joke people, the skills are the same." Just make the best of it. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  01:15, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No more Conviction 50% permablock on caster heroes...and as has been said, the Asuran Scan nerf is going to hurt Ranger PvE damage bad. I'm glad I've already finished everything I want to... Arshay Duskbrow 01:36, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Dervish NPCs
It's gonna be fun to redocument all of those. ^^ -- Konig / talk 00:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You said it, friend! --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 00:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

The dervish update was ridiculous. I loved playing a version of the mystic sandstorm and was very very effective in PvP. Much more so than any scythe based damage build at the time.

Crit Reduction and IAS
Anybody know by how much they were reduced and increased, respectively? --Musha 00:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Appears to be 1.5 seconds, based off my crappy stopwatching. 68.115.32.44 01:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Same attack speed as sword. Scythe used to be 1.75(same as hammer). I put up an ench that was 8 sec + 20%, got 7 attacks in. At 1.5sec/attack, it'd have to have lasted 10.5, which is over 120% of 8. So 1.33sec seems the likely answer.--99.225.28.182 17:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Intensity
Does this change make all ele skills similar to barrage + splinter weapon? ie: if i use invoke lightning on a foe that already does damage to target and 2 nearbys, is the intensity damage applied to every foe nearby all 3 of those foes so all 3 of those foes take the invoke lightning damage plus 40-50% of the damage from intensity twice? Does this question even make sense? --Musha 00:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC) The thing with splinter barrage is that splinter weapon is for attacks, not targets. I'd guess no, unless you're able to target multiple foes at once. -- Konig / talk 00:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Hm... it sounds like it should. Try it on the master of damage and his friends; i would but I don't have the skill Dx 74.210.50.20 00:37, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "For 10 seconds, the next time you deal elemental damage with a spell to a target, you deal 40...50% of that damage to all other nearby foes."
 * works with Rodgort's Invocation(target and nearby foe), tested with the practice target, it hits 5x127 without intensity, and 5x127 + 4x63 with it, but the weird part is that In The Area target also got damaged from intensity, possible bug? 41.133.12.246 01:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Could be a description anomaly. Non targeted spells also work, such as with dropping a Destructive Was Glaive. But the additional Intensity damage seemed inconsistent with the description. Between the two sets of dummies in the rings on the Isle of the Nameless, hitting six at the set with friendly dummies mixed in caused three to be hit with the Intensity bonus as well, while hitting six of the other set caused only two to be hit with the bonus damage. -Yossitaru 03:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I see this more useful along single-target strong attacks. Those are mainly in Air Magic. ~Trow cracked armor to the enemy that probably has the lowest armor, then activate this, then cast in that guy the speel that deals the most damage to a single target. And ding, the rest get about half of that. I'll try it in HM with my ele, still, I kind of wish it was linked to Energy Storage, giving more shots to them. You know, instead just "the next time you deal elemental damage", "the next time, plus one additional time for ever x ranks in Energy storage". 10 seconds are a long recharge, and elementalists could use some help in HM. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 03:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Lava Arrow didn't work   -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 04:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That appears to be working exactly as the skill text states. The target takes damage and the nearby targets take roughly half the damage (triggering/using intensity) then two further arrows fly out to hit nearby targets (not able to trigger intensity again since it was already spent). -Yossitaru 04:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, I was able to test this out with Invoke Lightning. Intensity only does damage to foes near the initial target, which is then followed by the additional damage of Invoke Lightning and the intensity damage is not reapplied. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 05:57, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Right, that's what I meant... IE: it DOESN'T work like Splinter which is what some had hoped.  And no way to really exploit it on a any other class since the R15's on Elemental Damage pretty much stops at 100 and every other damage above that isn't Elemental based.  ...kinda begs the question though... why does EBSoH still buff Snowstorm?  (and every other skill like it but, NOT chaos storm).  Seems silly to nerf all these skills but then leave in an exploit for the heaviest multi-pip nukes that were main reasons you didn't bother bringing weak old dervishes... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 08:43, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Bugs?
Flesh enchantments concise description starts with "..."
 * Flesh enchantments??? You mean flash? ( you also forgot to sign) -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  00:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Build is already on the way to fix it. John Stumme 00:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I Mean Flash. Good to see this update, now waiting for making ele as strong as mes Browcio 00:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * In the italian version the description of Attacker's Insight is completly wrong

Ok the next thing (in new build): Strange things with (xx seconds.) in concise description. Sometimes there is a dot, sometime there isnt. Sometime there is a space after, sometime there isnt... ex. Aura Slicer has no space, Extend Enchantments has na space and no dot Browcio 01:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Bug: BUH ressurects spirits. You can have 100 of the same spirit if you want... which is not intentional I'm guessing Popnfresh 04:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Typo in Chilling Victory: Deals x cold damage to each foe hit who (add 'has' here) less health than you. Daine 05:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Should there be a separate page for consolidating the many bugs with these changes? 24.197.253.243 12:26, 18 February 2011 (UTC) - Zesbeer 13:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * no please follow this: "Report bugs via one of the options listed on the page or on one of the appropriate bug report pages listed on Feedback:Bug reports. You can also check Feedback:Bug reports and its archives to see if the bug has already been reported."
 * Yeah, but you know that people are lazy and its a lot easier to put bugs here? :D

No idea if this is a bug or not, Pious Fury says in game update "you attack 33% faster" but ingame it says 25% instead of 33%. Zehel03 16:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

BUH
WTF R'A Hatred... 8m FoW smashed, soloing city slower... Gloom the same, TrueDuo Spanked.
 * OMFG, That's like the best April 1st change EVAR and it's not even April =D  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 00:37, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

The change to BUH makes me sadface. It was awesome as it was. OPed, maybe, but if it was overpowered, the logical thing to do is nerf the skill but keep its existing functionality. You don't COMPLETELY change the skill's function into something that no one wants to use it for. Does any build even use Vengeance for anything other than pure lulz? And now BUH is an AoE Vengeance....making it useless in most (if not all) practical PvE situations, and being a PvE skill, that's the only time you CAN use it. When you nerf a PvE-only skill to be less practical than Light of Dwayna, you need to re-evaluate your decision making, guys. :/ --BuildKitten 03:10, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

What a horrible change. A dumbed-down AoE version of Vengeance is EXACTLY what we needed, thanks, Anet! There weren't enough worthless skills already in the game, this makes me feel more complete. Gz on Asuran Scan, too. Wombatt 03:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I commend anet on their buh change as long as they dont fix the big. 98.207.35.105 03:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I like it A LOT more. Before it was a generic DPS buff, not interesting at all, just more efficient. Now it's a party wide wipe recovery skill condusive to active combat and allowing for people to make mistakes. It's a much better and much more interesting skill now. A full party of players using this skill will be crazy fun to play with. 58.111.65.25 04:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

How is this change interesting? Its an exploding scroll of resurection that mooches a spot on the skill bar. This skill will be retired from every sensible players skill bars from this day forward right along with Asuran Scan.
 * It makes your party near invincible with most toons equipped with it. The duration is long enough, can't be removed and the damage buff is significant. As long as one person in the party has a hard res you will find it very difficult to wipe. This skill is an instant party wide res that gives full health and energy, it can't be disenchanted and it makes you 33% more powerful for 30 seconds. That's insanely powerful! The amount of monks running Unyielding Aura due the simple acceptance that death happens should prove to you how useful this skill will be to PuGing in GW, sure the res doesn't stick around but it occurs when you need it to and you can then hard res once you're done. 58.111.65.25 05:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

This is running on the assumption that you cannot afford or consider the use of a rez scroll, that doesn't have an exploding timer attached to it. You won't see whole parties running around with this skill attached and you would be hard pressed to get someone to waste a potentially useful skill slot in a build to include it when a consumable will suffice. Same with asuran scan. they've crafted these skills to take the place of easily obtainable consumables and removed the usefulness and relevance of them. the party buff doesn't really intrigue me in the slightest because it hinges on a large number of people getting killed before it takes effect, in that respect it was more effective as a buff before the change. You have to keep in mind that UA serves multiple uses, it is a rez, but it also boosts the effectiveness of healing skills. If players thought that this was a good change you would have seen them running around with vengence (If I'm remembering the correct skill) prior to the nerf instead of UA. Furthermore, even the idea that its useful as a rez is silly. If the toon with the rez skill already died, he's going to die again in 30 seconds along with everyone else which means either you use a rez scroll anyways, or you die and suffer the death penalty.
 * If only I could count the number of times I was in a party and everyone ELSE had the res scrolls if nothing else, the BUH change is good for the ability to res whomever it is with a scroll and give them the 30 seconds to drop a scroll on the ground to hard res everyone else. Kudos Anet this is good. 108.75.73.62 07:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

It's an uncalled for change, but imo, it's a change that can see some use in my build. I understand they wanted everyone to be able to get the team back on their feet, but it's not GW2 yet. Also, you guys are just afraid of change, humans adapt, that's what makes us better as a species.91.177.121.184 11:43, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

The problem, IMO, is not what it's become. It's what it no longer does. They took away a functionality that was hurting NOTHING in this game. I can think of at least 3 other EOTN pve skills that were more deserving of a nerf than BUH. There's simply no good reasoning offered for the change, either. I mean, basically what they did with the pve changes was nerf doasc, and buff frostway to omglol status. It's beyond stupid. It's insulting to the high end players who actually cared to put thought into their team builds.12.54.84.193 17:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Has anyone checked to see if this will bring a whole entourage of pets back up, with the damage buff? I can see some versions of Zooway/furbombs getting popular quick if so. 204.10.131.97 21:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope it does not... and Heroes suck at rezzing their pets unless you give them . On the plus side though, it does recharge instantly from  and  meaning that once we get 7-hero teams, we'll be able to make a fully functioning R/N touch-nec Kamikaze bombing team with Necro & Rit backline support b/c (and I did test this btw...)  anyone rez'd by BUH can NOT gain additional Death Penalty nomatter what. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 00:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

New 100b
Sand Shards + Vow of Strength + Whirlwind Attack.– alistic 00:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ^Pro, excited to test that. Power WM [[Image:Elementalist-tango-icon-200.png|19px]] 01:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Enchantment removal. 98.207.35.105 01:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sure we'll figure something out. Cover enchantments? Aegis? Maybe Vow of Strength might not even be needed, and we could bring Vow of Silence; but then how would we shadow step? Hmmm. Maybe the spikes will be fast enough to neglect enchantment removal... Power WM [[Image:Elementalist-tango-icon-200.png|19px]] 01:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Shadow step by ebon escape? Browcio 01:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Still a spell though...(vow of silence would prevent most enchantment stripping, but it would disallow us to cast spells, like shadowsteps) Power WM [[Image:Elementalist-tango-icon-200.png|19px]] 01:28, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Is not 100b if you don't bring 100b. Also, how are you fueling Whirlwind Attack? --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 05:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Zealous sweep, this works, its massive, it hits harder than 100b(first thing I tried). 108.75.73.62 07:10, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Large, you can use Inspirational Speech on the MoP, in conjunction with the PvE "FgJ!", and everything's gravy. Promise. 141.165.227.54 18:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

R.I.P. Derv 2011/02/17
Our thoughts are with you 142.110.227.191 01:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

"By Ural's Hammer"....this was a major use in my 100B PvE build...fail update on this...increased + percent to Intensity which is good n changed it to "Skill". The Update is okay for some of the dervish skills. To end,...this update was failed for the most part seeing as to how they nerfed most of the PvE builds using "BUH". And for 100B...need to find a new replacement...Hopefully they don't screw up on the next update.

PS: For the past few updates I've only seen Anet making the Warrior more useless...
 * Looks like you aren't thinking hard enough how to use these. Warriors are going to love Rending Aura. Especially Hammer ones. 68.115.32.44 01:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah they're not as HurfDurf-friendly anymore if that's what you mean... I guess the shitters will keep playing Crit Sins for their WTFbbq facerolling DMG?  ...O WAIT scythe crits finally got nerfed.  GO GO Penetration stacking on Warriors :D.... and just in time for Embark too.  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 01:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say R.I.P at all. The introduction of the new Flash Enchantments are simply awesome!  No stopping to cast, can be cast on the move and in battle!  Huzzah for running builds or builds that use skills such as Onslaught.  Really like the new Ranger-like twist on the Mysticism Mechanics, although it only applies to Dervish Enchantments!  D-:  Overall, I'm very happy.  Though I've only tested 1 build, so many more to make and try!  I can't wait! ! !  Aion on hold, Guild Wars here I come! Donutdude 02:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Would someone please post 5 dervish builds that actually make sense for this stupid ruinous change? There is so much contradiction in this mess, it's impossible to find a build that actually works for melee. My derv attacks were 200 dmg, now it's 20 dmg. Why is that good? Why should I run all secondary skills? THIS UPDATE IS STUPID!


 * All you need for a great derv build: Avatar of grenth, Grenth's Aura, and Heart of fury. Rapid armor ignoring damage, and you don't die. just add a few attack skills  and some enchants depending on what you need, and you're good. Especially usefull for killing turtles or juggernauts in FA or JQ, due to lifesteal bypass ~ Reez 03:45, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * omg use to do like 500+ dmg and now it's crap all over :( No more asuran scan, no more by ural's hammer, no more aura of holy might... Oh and don't forget they killed running as well with no more pious/dash lovely combo... arrgh. Why do I have Rank 12 kurz or lux now? pfftt... ANET you killed the Dervs! Making your derv last in battle don't matter if you can't kill anything damn. Stop trying make something new with old stuff by changing skills all the time... Sorry to everyone else I don't intend this to any of you :P We all suffer together! Mils. 142.78.8.4 20:51, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Summonig stones
When you use a summoning stone, the allies summoned now apear in your party window. Xaphan67 01:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Im checking it just now and it doesnt work for me. Any screens with proof? Browcio 01:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Here it is : http://s2.noelshack.com/old/up/sans_titre-a69abc723.jpg
 * Aw. Agree now. Merchant works for me too. But other dont. Would be nice to see this as "Guild Wars Wiki notes" Browcio 01:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a nice update. Will be easier to keep them alive. And I tried a raptor and it worked so not sure why your having issues.Sarge 01:43, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried celestial stones (snake and rabbit) and they dont appear as ally. Now i see that Mysterious Stones works too. Maybe this celestial stones are bugged? Browcio 01:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * that may or may not be a hint of things to come... useful regardless -[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 01:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sneaky.
 * not really i just made an edit.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 02:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I just discovered the professions of Grentches (N) and Snowmen (Mo) thanks to this... They were no surprise :D . I edited the summon pages, some other one edit the summon navigation and summoning stone pages, I'm lazy. XD Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 02:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

This is the worst update ... there is nothing good about it. I guess Anet really did want to fail completely. Congrats on being utterly pathetic at knowing what your players want in an update

/deaths
I believe this has changed. It says something about experience since death. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  02:01, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It may be a hint to a new surivor title... I'm not sure if I should be glad about that. Being able to redo the title on my main means that I MUST DO IT. And I HATED doing the survivor the first time... --195.202.166.190 02:12, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I deeply hope that now Survivor = consecutive exp without dying. Like earn 1,337,500 exp consecutively regardless of any previous deaths and voila - you got Legendary Survivor :) Less frustrating and ~equal job to do :) tazer 02:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It says you have gained experience since death whether you actually have or not. I'm guessing its bugged and is supposed to display a number. 67.168.217.198 02:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Either that or like how the current survivor title works -- it (exp) show up until your char has gained so much exp. DaveBaggins 02:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * These are not the droids you're looking for. o__o John Stumme 03:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * So you're trying to Jedi mind-trick us into forgetting this? (Or it really has nothing to do with Survivor...) -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  03:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you're touching up the Survivor title, John. Will you give LDoA the same love? :P 78.92.0.220 04:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * LDoA is worthless. Just don't get it.  I regret getting it, seeing as the HoM rewards are so pathetic.  --70.90.155.138 06:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I remember on my early days trying to "test" if it was possible to gain the survivor with consecutive experience after deaths and failed xD I would be glad to see it working this way, most "main characters" can't access to this title because this character use to be the one you used to experience the game for the first time and usually died some times in the beginning because you didn't know about the dangers of the world and usually your character with more titles can't have this one, wich is very helpfull to GWAMM by the way... so if you are planning to make this title accesible with consecutive experience even after a death, thank you a-net! Lokheit 10:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * @70.90.155.138: I understand rage rage rage, but that's just all the more reason for that title not to be stupidly annoying to get. 78.92.0.220 11:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look close enough theres an extra space in the string, so basically its displaying 'null' by default. Otherwise it technically is stating the obvious that you've gained experience after you've died. My only issue with this would be if they are reseting the title how will it work with having title tracks of say r2 survivor, will it just keep your highest one? Or maybe the bit of text is just to make players aware there is a survivor title as to my knowledge it only appears after a certain amount of XP. --Smithy-Star [[File:User Smithyben sig icon.png]] 13:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well imo it should just state the exp gained since last death, no matter if you have r2 Survivor or not. But it seems it's not working yet anyway. tazer 15:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I sure wish everything didn't have to be a cryptic secret for once. If they're (you're) looking into making something equivalent to Survivor for my characters that never had a chance, it sure would be nice to know. If it's for something else it would also just be nice to know that "it's for something else." :/ Clobimon Craiggy 16:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * @78.92.0.220: yeah you're right. i wouldn't mind their making it easier to get, but considering how easy survivor is, LDoA would have to be really easy to make it useful, other than just for show. --70.90.155.138 16:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The reason for not saying things like that in advance is simply that it will stop people from playing (affected content) until it goes in, which will in turn make them bitter at us for not getting the update out faster, now that they know about it. Think of it this way: if you know everything that you're getting for Christmas (or other similar gift giving occasion) it feels like it's just taking longer to get them. If you don't know, then it's genuinely a surprise to be happy about. People's perceptions can take something that is good, and skew it to "This was owed to me/this was promised" where it then becomes a negative. It's kind of sad but true, and you can see this happening on the forums all the time. The short of it is yes, we're changing a couple of titles that are less than ideal to make them better. We're changing still more beyond that, which makes it hard to keep things from slipping to the Live server sometimes when a build is this big. But at least people don't have to wonder about it for that long. John Stumme 20:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I can wait for updates. :) -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  20:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I also don't mind waiting at all :) Knowing that I might be able to do something I normally couldn't still makes me happy :) tazer 22:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yay, you're making me a happy fanboy. I promise I'll be patient and won't let my expectations take over my mind, hehe. 78.92.0.220 23:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

PLEASE do NOT ruin the survivor title. I find a title based on NEVER dieing to be quite ingeneous and changing it just to please the masses that can't achieve this is just flat out stupid Rites 02:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Your argument for not changing the survivor title because you have developed sentimental attachment to its current form is rather weak, wouldn't you agree? It certainly wouldn't make the title easier from a technical aspect, considering a new character can earn XP much easier than one that has already done a number of high-reward quests. Farming Kilroy or hammers doesn't get any easier either. The only tangible result this change has is that one wouldn't need to scrap their armor and customized weapons in case they died while trying for survivor. Also, characters who never had a chance to be survivors because they were started before Factions may now go for it. --Adul 09:43, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have one idea about alternative Survivor title, maybe it's not a best place and time for such discussion, but anyway. Survivor = a character who has filled in one new storybook for any campaign without deaths. Legendary survivor = has completed 3 storybooks without deaths. Deaths before and after any particular storybook are not counted. Amount of experience doesn't have a matter. I think it would be a decent title, but with an option to redo any wrong case (= sudden / unexpected death). --Slavic 12:20, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not a matter of sentimental attachment, i just find that making things easier for the "new batch" of players is stupid. the whole purpose of the survivor title was to show that you had LEARNED the lessons you needed to learn the first time around and have become a better player because of those lessons.  giving players a second chance to receive a title after they aggroed more than they can handle is just plain dumb.  hell in my opinion hard mode should = if you DIE in HM your toon is deleted.  whatever happened to the "REAL" gamers that liked having a challenge?Rites 20:47, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a difference between a challenge and a high risk, if you're referring to your opinion about deleting characters if they die in HM. This is not that kind of game. Also, I don't see the difference between learning the first time and then completing it on the same character as opposed to learning the first time to complete it on another. Especially when you earn XP more easily (if more slowly) below level 20. The only difference is that with an update you wouldn't have to waste time creating a new character every damn time you fail it. The difficulty is unchanged; you still have to kill the same things. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 22:26, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting my hopes up and try not to get to excited, but I will be happy with some changes to survivor. Mostly because my fav char was also my first one, and while learning the game, I died a lot. And to the remark about death in HM, some people like experimenting with builds (like myself) and not everything works, so you might die a bit more then you would using some meta-build from pvx. Nothing to be ashamed about. Gaia 09:36, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying that resetting your survivor XP is very much identical to rolling a new character. If anything, you're better off rolling a new character anyway because of all the quest XP you waste dying. In my opinion these changes will not make the title easier or less annoying to get, it's just convenient for those who want to get survivor on their old characters who have already died. I'll personally welcome these changes if they'll be implemented. --Adul 10:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Apparently I seem to view challenges a little differently from these "new-age" gamers. It seems younger gamers prefer "ease of use" over actually playing, learning and adjusting.  And the worst part is, the game developers keep making games easier just to please the masses. Rites 20:36, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Challenges are fine but it shouldn't be impossible! All my characters were created long before the survivor title even existed.  It is not fair for a old timers to have to delete their old characters and re-create them from scratch just to get survivor.  If you want to be absolutely fair then they should have told us about the survivor title when the game started back in 2005, but they didn't.  The game was very different then and we didn't have heroes, EOTN, overpowered PvE skills, and cons to help us get the title.  It is unfair that old characters has to be deleted and re-created in order to get survivor while new players do not need to go through the same hassels. 71.112.21.147 14:28, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

the unloved

 * What do you mean by Arcane? 68.115.32.44 02:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * whoops -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 04:04, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Mysticism
Another primary attribute stupidly changed so it only affects that profession's skills. It's quite irritating. Why do they even continue to pretend to support the primary/secondary scheme? It's even worse than what they did to Fast Casting for the Mesmer update. (It used to be that only the Monk one was so terribly limited). --71.182.216.247 02:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * its done because the primary should have a benefit, there shouldn't be cases were other professions do the roll that dervishes are intended to do but better.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 02:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with a Spawning Power Minion Master? An E-Storage Party Healer? A Fast-Cast Protection Prayers user? A nuker who fuels himself with Soul Reaping? Hell, a Touch ranger? These things (and build variety in general) are disappearing because of their narrowing of primary attributes. It's getting pretty close to where secondary professions are completely irrelevant (rather than increasing build (=FUN) diversity. (On a second look, your answer had NOTHING to do with my question.) Why should a Dervish be punished for wanting to use enchantments from other professions? --71.182.216.247 02:40, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Because it's far more punishing not to. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 02:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * In theory? There's nothing wrong with having those builds as alternatives to the standard Necro Minion Master, or the vanilla Divine Favor Monk. The problem is that it often turns out that the alternative builds are even BETTER than the original profession meant to run those builds. When you have a situation where, as the Developer Notes point out, groups are picking a Scythe Ranger or Assassin over a Dervish, then something is deeply wrong and needs to be addressed. - Zaxares 02:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Diversity is good, but too much diversity only causes chaos. It's better to have many build options withing limits. That's why I prefer the way GW2 builds are created. If it was my hands, there would be 10 skill slot, but only 3 of them could be from a secondary profession at most, the elites would be limited to the primary, and at least one resurrection and one skill that can heal self would be mandatory in any build. So you are lucky, because it could be worse. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 02:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * But that has little to do with narrowing the primaries. You make key skills rely in the primary to fix those (or otherwise target the degenerate skills), or other things. Seriously -- what's next? E-Storage going to give a second "use this energy only for elementalist skills" bar? Strength only affecting hammer/axe/sword? Make the primary better for same-profession skills, but not useless for cross-profession ones. --71.182.216.247 02:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * someone embed this please

85.168.223.65 03:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * what it really comes down to is balance, and is the reason why we are not seeing secondary's in gw2. -[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Then balance it for real rather than making secondaries essentially useless. GW has secondaries. I'm talking about, have, and play GW. GW2 is irrelevant. Since GW has secondaries, they should be useable. They say they want build diversity, while they continue to limit it. (Same person as the 71. IP above.) --136.142.214.19 17:09, 18

February 2011 (UTC)
 * All this said, I DO like this update, except what they did to Mysticism. They "hacked" it to make Dervish a heavy armor profession (warrior/paragon) instead of medium armor (assassin/ranger), and then made the energy management part of it work only for Dervish skills. --136.142.214.19 17:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Secondaries exist to bring one or two utility skills from another profession that complement your primary profession's goal. Obvious examples are warriors or rangers with mending touch, eles with Heal Party, Dervs with bull's strike, Paras with shatterstorm/power spike/etc. There is a problem if people run a primary profession with a skillbar full of secondary skills - E/Rt with full resto magic and prism, N/Mo or N/Rt with the entire healing bar fueled by unlimited soul reaping energy, A/D with a bar full of scythe skills that does more damage than D/*'s with scythes... people only do this to exploit poorly designed game mechanics.
 * As long as you aren't aiming to break the game with some ridiculous ranger-using-a-melee-weapon or snare-mesmer-with-full-bar-of-ele-skills-that-cannot-be-interrupted builds, secondary professions are still very viable. Dervs are still free to take bull's strike, and it's still a viable skill. Warriors can still bring rending touch as enchantment hate. Secondary professions are no less viable than they ever were - only the gimmicks spawned by exploiting unintended skill combinations suffer.
 * In a game as dead and imbalanced as Guild Wars, it's pretty difficult to expect a Dervish-level overhaul for every profession, but a good first step is making the primary attribute worthwhile without making it break the game (i.e., soul reaping). Dervishes had a useless primary attribute full of useless skills, two useless attributes with useless spells, and then scythe mastery which was better used by classes with critical strike or expertise. I'm fairly sure scythes are still "viable" on rangers, they just shouldn't be hands-down better than a dervish with a scythe. The mysticism change was part of the attempt to make Dervishes viable as a class again. It's sort of a bigger concern to make sure the class works at all before worrying that Scythe Assassins might not be as broken as they used to be. - Auron 17:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The topic isn't scythe-using-whatevers... It's "Why are dervishes now pretty crappy at utilizing enchantments from their secondaries?" --136.142.214.19 18:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That's easy. The rest of the professions aren't designed to strip enchantments off themselves. - Auron 18:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Contemplation of Purity --136.142.214.19 18:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, monks with short recharge enchantments have an ability that benefits from stripping enchantments. Pity the ability is complete ass and hasn't been used in 3 years. Either way, your argument is now shooting itself in the foot. Dervishes are able to take cheap, spammable monk enchants simply to have enchants to burn through - RoF, RoD, shielding hands, Guardian possibly. They aren't as good as Derv enchants for burning through, but that's the entire point - they shouldn't be. What are you looking for - flash enchantments on every class to benefit Dervishes? Quarter second cast enchants with a 2 second recharge don't seem to be good enough for you, so I'm wondering what is. - Auron 03:23, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Read above. I'm looking for mysticism (and all primary attributes) to be useful beyond just that profession's skills, like most of them were before the "new balance" style of making secondaries irrelevant. --Emkyooess 14:52, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Concerning this "new balance" trend you're noticing, you'll have to point me to where they said rangers, necros, warriors, and elementalists were getting an update to address their primary attribute's synergy with secondary profession. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 15:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I think we'd all like to see that blurb here ... (but don't hold your breath) -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 22:24, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

oh well
oh well, at least now we're closer to new content and more heroes in the next major update Grimsdale Wildfire 02:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Documenting
Should we make a list to see which wiki pages still need to be updated (since I see at least some of the skills are not)? Because otherwise I'm not going to bother working on it, trying to figure out what other people are doing and what hasn't been done. --ஸ Kyoshi 03:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I just got all the new PvP version pages filled out with their basic stats (infobox, descriptions, etc.), except for Banishing Strike, as I didn't have it unlocked. -Yossitaru 10:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, make the list. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  15:12, 18 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 18:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Seriously
How do you take a class that was mediocre to begin with and make it worse this is a major fail every single part of this update. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.96.228.98 (talk).
 * Cool story bro. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 03:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll need to be specific if you actually want to get a statement across. I for one welcome our new spellsword overlords. <font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 03:58, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Try using Foresaken Insignias when you're not enchanted, and letting Mysticism cover you while you are enchanted. Also, the Dervish is more powerful now, you might just have a hard time at first getting used to the new skills. Once some builds come out it will be easier to use. Also, although it was mentioned somewhere else and I can't seem to find it, the A/D still works, I just swapped out 3 skills and I can do tons of damage with that still. Don't give up yet. <I>Ghosst</I>   •  Talk  •
 * I didn't gratify it with a response because it is clearly either a misinformed anon who isn't coming back or a troll who is only coming back to gloat. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 00:29, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Reaper's Sweep
is missing from the list. Now causes cripple and KD upon enchant removal and has an adrenaline cost of 8. FC 04:04, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That's pretty hot, YmlaD in Scythe form. Good to see some KD skills from Dervs.
 * But it needs to have it's damage back seeing that they buffed WS. Damysticreaper 12:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Asuran Scan
Well, good news is that a PvE skill slot has just opened up on my warrior main's bar. 78.92.0.220 04:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I am offended by the assumption that players are so witless as to need a special skill to remove dp implied by this skill change. Not to mention it encourages players to run around the map lf mobs to reduce dp, a mechanic most games are moving away from. As for BUH, I am not sure what purpose it serves now since anyone resurrected will have to intentionally kill himself and be resurrected before the hard resurrecter's own timer runs out; I've not seen a more cumbersome mechanic. GW Player CS 05:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Regarding and possibly justifying the change to both this skill, and Aura of holy might, was this Quote:  "While we expect PvE skills to be powerful, reliance upon these skills has reached the point where they need to be reworked."  I'd point out one flaw in this rationale: Physical damage classes were having so much trouble just getting into parties (b/c they're so far outclassed by Monks, Mesmers, Rits, and Necro's safely doing AoE versions of armor ignoring damage) that they HAD TO rely on these.  Single target spiking with Scan was their last niche. So, it'll be interesting to see if warriors can adapt to some new niche (other than Manlyspike that is) -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 05:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What kind of assinine logic is that quote? Is this now socialism? If you don't like the idea of us using skills, why don't you make a standard bar for each profession, and remove the rest of the skills? It's one thing to have a child squeel out that you're not using the bar they want you to use (let's call it shitway and then we'll feel better if it's not what I like), but when the devs get mad at you for using skills they give you, what's the point in having more than 8 skills per profession? <I>Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •

And it's PvE, guys! not like it's unbalancing PvP players. You're only pissing off the NPC foe, who deserve to die anyway. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.47.27.36 (talk).

This change is really really stupid, and has pretty much made my Glass Arrows bar worthless. Well back to splinter weapon barrage because apparently I'm not allowed to have any bars I actually find fun to use :( --Poobah 08:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It makes Marksman's Wager pretty darn effective though seeing as it's basically impossible to miss... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 10:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Quit your bitching, everyone. Seriously. Auto-attacking and landing 200+ damage on 120 armor foes in HM is a bit over-powered, don't you think? Join the other crap professions now eye-to-eye.

Why? Just why? Who needs a skill that specially removes DP? I can't believe the stupidity that went into vamping that skill. --98.82.203.54 14:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeeeey, personally I like what they did with Azura Scan, DP removal ohhhhh DREAM come true, now i can finally die as many times as i like. And considering that my melee characters now are doing 75% less dmg i think the chances to get a Warrior/Ranger in HM elite areas just got very high. P.S: ANet please buff "Shadow Form" this skill is badly underpowered. <3 ANet P.P.S. Sarcasm FTW --ELIHU 15:58, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This skill is good if you are terrible at the game. Considering most of the people who still play GW are bad at it, I would say this was a great change. <font color="Black">Koda [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_Horns1.GIF‎|19px]] 15:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought the idea of a game was that people had fun? Oh of course not, this is a test and you will be graded on how hard you make it for yourself. If you're having fun, your skills will be altered until this is a miserable experience because that's what games are all about! Woo!! <I>Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * I'm sorry, but the other 'crap' professions that aren't affected like this, i.e. casters, don't have to worry about their damage output going down tremendously in HM. Actually, most of them do armor ignoring damage anyways. If I wanted to play my warrior/ranger in HM, I have to pull hair to just do any reasonable amount of damage. Also, the idea of having a skill remove DP is just ridiculous. If ArenaNet wanted to change the functionality of the skill, they shouldn't have insulted it by adding the DP removal to it. On another note, this skill is good regardless of whether or not you are terrible at the game or not. It was useful, and probably needed to be scaled back, even if just to 10-25% depending on your rank. But this? Useless. 174.77.38.183 19:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ...this skill was good regardless.... -  My bad. 174.77.38.183 19:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This change really messes up ranger builds. As if the ranger wasn't suffering enough now all the builds that used this skill in spikes have been wiped out. I can now delete 60% of my ranger builds. I wish Anet would stop listening to noobs on guru forums.
 * Hey, the update to Asuran Scan all bad, at least now you can ignore Blurred Vision, not sure about blind but probably that as well.– User Balistic B d-dark.png<font color="#7777cc">alistic 23:38, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Yikes, this is nerfalicious
I can delete most of my dervish builds and start over. I'll really miss my +136% holy dmg build, which used Aura of Holy Might and Asuran Scan. Sigh...

On second thought, I AM OUT! After researching GW2 stupid professions, and the stupid Polymock imbalance, and this GW nerf to dervish. I AM OUT!

There is no point in playing dervish anymore. No one will want a dervish on their team. Screw it. I AM OUT!

and I just bought my obby armor about 2 weeks ago...such a waste... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.47.27.36 (talk).


 * 1/10, I almost commented in earnest. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 04:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Seriously. Did you even read the article?  Dervish aren't supposed to be uber damage dealers.  That is not their point.  I can't believe how many people are whining because the Dervish skills aren't designed around 'OMG DAMAGE!'.  Damn it, people, grow up.  New toys, new rules, new game plan.  I used BUH all the time in my build -- am I ticked off it's been radically altered?  No.  A bit miffed, but I got over it in an instant -- it's used for different things now, time for me to choose a new skill to replace it, and play on. Tashiro 06:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note that you've just been trolled. 1/10 66.57.27.36, 86.87.127.239 06:28, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Side note: Dervs can be "OMG DAMAGE!" now. more than ever if you use it right. ~ Reez 04:00 19 February 2011 (UTC)

that is total bullspit from an idiotic troll. how does reducing damage in half, deleting asuran scan and AoHM make any sense for a melee profession? stfu

How long until they have to nerf Onslaught?
Hmm? 3 weeks, you think? I've heard Lem is already raping with it on an axe war. I guess I missed Primal anyway. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate <font color="Black">Jesus   <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">04:46, 18 February 2011  (UTC)
 * More important: Can I run frenzy dervish now? &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  5:06, 18 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, except it's a little slower and you get more adren ;D <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">05:19, 18 February 2011  (UTC)
 * Maybe they will just move it to Mysticism. If not I hope they keep the PvE version intact. It's hits all three sweet spots for a melee adrenaline user... not very creative but well worth the elite spot and frees up a lot of building potential with the rest of your bar. 58.111.65.25 05:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You and your frenzy :D - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk </b> 10:58, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Eh, what spec is Lem using it? 20 second recharge is already a bit rough. Though yeah, for the time it lasts, it's god-mode for warriors.
 * It's a 10 second recharge. 205.206.23.50 11:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * i say just up the energy cost to 15 so warrs won't using it too often. for pvp of course--74.12.183.100 20:28, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Worst ever
Worst ever update. I cant believe.. Aura of Holy Might, Asuran Scan, BUH and Intensity nerfed. Nerfed becouse of what? Becouse of realy dumb update of realy One of the terrible class in the game? --X10Dead 06:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I regret ever wanting a skill update... Okay, I knew Dervishes would become imba-power, but did they need to kill every other physicals damage source to just slap them in their face even harder? Sorry for raging, but I just feel that it's time to bury my main character deep under the ground, waiting for a Asuran Scan update that never will come...-- Toroquin User Toroquin Toro icon.png 07:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Said it before the update said it after lol Wars are obsolete thats too bad for us who play it as main. But it is what it is. 108.75.73.62 07:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Why bury your character, Toroquin? I don't see how your position is any worse than it was before Eye of the North was released. You had to work your way toward that PvE skill somehow, so why not try to get along without it? Honestly, I've heard too much about why Asuran Scan was a staple of every melee build (except possibly the now-endangered Permasin), and I'm glad for the chance of a little more diversity.
 * I mean, I play my ranger more than anything, and I almost always use Broad Head Arrow. If it were nerfed today, I would first try to see if it could be useful in its new functionality, and if that failed, I would simply drop it and find something else. If you don't like the new Asuran Scan, why not try something like "I Am the Strongest"? And if that doesn't work, maybe you'd like Signet of Strength. Branch out until you find something you like. That's assuming you don't want to bury your warrior, of course.
 * That said, it's my opinion that when a skill is good enough to be an absolute necessity to an entire class (warrior) or even a whole category (melee), it's probably in need of a good nerfing. Hasn't that been the reasoning behind the vast majority of big nerfs? --RoyHarmon 12:10, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you guys really that bad? Seriously... its one skill... guild wars is designed so that you can change around your skills for a number of different combinations that work... and they still work, unless your telling me that before Eotn you couldn't play melee at all...--Dinsy [[File:User_Ros_Sig.png]] 13:26, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Before Eotn there was no HM, HM came and made melee a extinct class because monsters KITE 50% faster they have more HP and more armor, and more powerful skills, what a pitiful warrior can do to keep up, with a +33% run skill and monsters still run faster.., well u get the point. Eli
 * First, HM existed well before EOTN. Second, Cripple, Deep Freeze, Grasping Earth. Also, Strength of Honor, Barbs, Order of Pain, Mark of Pain, Splinter Weapon. I have never used Asura Scan yet I still make shit explode in HM with my warrior and assassin. lern 2 play physical kthx 206.167.101.2 17:04, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It's ironic to call that stuff Phsyical considering every skill you listed is Caster-Prof skill devoted almost entirely to Mage-Based herding which is what Nuking casters have ALWAYS been used for. IoW: It's not embracing a Melee fighter's strong independent playstyle, but rather making them jump through hoops some other profession owns just to get into the Cool-Kids' Clubhouse. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 23:43, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Goddamn..
-- Reason: Dupe/Crossposting

Whohoho
Anet going crazy with dat update! Morphy 08:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Grow up
Omg, everyone wanted their dervish update and now that they've gotten it, they're gonna whine and cry about it. Grow up people. After this update, being a dervish looks actually fun now according to the new skills.


 * Speak for yourself. I was very happy with dervish until they changed it to nerfish. I don't play PvP and it seems that wanted to nerf and merge skills for PvP. The dervish is dead. LONG LIVE THE NERFISH!

About the skills being nerfed: Who cares.. I like new stuff. BUH and asuran scan do different things now, so its design-a-new-skillbar time for me, especially since my scythe warrior is way to different now compared to the pre-derv change because of the new derv skills. Time to be original again! Thepoisonx 10:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * for every person QQing about updates like this there are 20 that are glad its happened, a game needs to be buffed and nerfed at times otherwise you would end up having everyone run one build which they got off pvx, i embrace every nerf/buff and learn from it, i say QQers do the same, bring on SoS and other nerfs please anet.Spark-TBa 10:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Fanboy of idiotic class detected. Nuff said. --X10Dead 10:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * im guessing by that reply your one of the people who are moaning about this update and got all your builds off pvx, i use custom builds for almost everything and nothing this update has done will make my gaming worse, just different, we gotta learn to adapt otherwise why bother playingSpark-TBa 10:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I see u blind or stupid, dunno. But hurtful is NERF of BUH, Asuran Scan end etc. Thats very stupid to blame folk for pvx-noobing becouse of BUH/Asuran Scan/etc. --X10Dead 10:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * those two skills were mainly part of farming builds, if you dont have the ability to think of other skills to take and still do the same thing thats not my fault, give it a week and those that can forget about what was there and make builds with whats there now will have some new ones for you, you ever think the reason they nerfed skills that are used in many farms in gw is to balance the econemy, otherwise lets just make ectos 1g ea and see what that does. and im not blind or stupid, i just work my way around these things rather than QQing about them. All i can say is learn to adapt.Spark-TBa 11:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I will miss my longtime selfmade A/D Tank build based on maintainable enchants and effects wich helped me get the 6 vanquisher and guardian titles and master of the north. Good bye conviction and good bye wounding strike and scythe, mystic regeneration is still useful but I'm not sure about wich skills would still work for this game style. BUT I'm not complaining, while I will miss this build, this isn't the first time that I have to make changes on my build (though last time the game style didn't change, only some skills) and I was planning anyway with the 7 heroes update, to turn from AssaTank into NukerSin with a bow, barrage + IATS + Banner in combination with the critical strikes energy gain skills. I tested this build during the final battle of WiK or Anguish Gate and it does wonders.


 * The only drawback is that I planned to give the TankSin build to a hero (I tested it and is one of the most effective melee heroes) and now I will need to change it, but this is a game for people who likes to experiment. Whining about change doesn't work and there are more and more ways to success, and it's said by someone that nearly completed GWAMM only with the A/D build. Oh, and BTW congrats to all the main dervishes that just got a new array of possibilities! And congrats to a-net for some clever ideas about the dervish role and skills! Lokheit 11:01, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * one final post in respect to X10 dead, calling me blind or stupid is a personal attack which is not allowed on wiki, i quote wiki policy...When a disagreement occurs, there must be no personal attacks. Discuss the edit, not the editor.Spark-TBa 11:04, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * @Spark-TBa if you have any more problems post them on the admin notice board were they can take care of any npa's. i also know for a fact that it takes longer then one day to find all of the epic builds that came with this update, so really all this QQ is unwarned seeing as i know that you have not played with the changes enough. you never know you might find something more imba then what you are currently using.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 12:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I Personally am really excited about this update :D i love making new builds, sticking to the same builds just makes the game stale, as the all those complaining about updates, remember updates are to BALANCE the game, not to make you more powerful, to make it more fair that means buffs and nerfs. I used to use BuH alot it was a good skill but along with other dmg + skills it pushed DPS a bit too high, hence it was changed. Stop complaining and be a decent guild wars player and make a new build, this game is always changing and so are the skills you should use to get ahead, if you try to stick rigidly to a single build you will get left behind... --Dinsy [[File:User_Ros_Sig.png]] 13:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

To Anet
Good job addressing the weak points of the game. What do you have in store for the next serious skill update? Smiting Monks? Non-Imbagon Paragons?
 * You're joking, right?
 * Buff mending plz. --X10Dead 11:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait... Did you say non-Imbagon paragons? Hah! That's like a flightless bird or something, right? They don't actually exist. Smiting Monks, on the other hand, could sometimes pose a threat in the Zaishen Challenge for an unprepared team. --RoyHarmon 12:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * no flightless birds? moa (although now extinc irl),ostrich, emu. and didnt anet say they would like to sort out smiting monks and non imbagon paras, im sure its on the page about upcoming changes.Spark-TBa 13:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah it was first mentioned on the mesmer update previews. --Dinsy [[File:User_Ros_Sig.png]] 13:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Now Derv, Monk, Rit and Para have hard rez skills in their Primary lines. How about just going ahead and giving the rest of the professions some quirky anti-wipe-with-a-twist skills? Let the rest have multi-rez with wards, wells, traps, buffs, kd's, blind/daze/disease, party-pull, etc etc. Everyone else shouldn't have to rely on the one-off sig, or leeching something half-effective from 2nd prof. No good reason for it to be eating one of the Title-based PvE-only slots that Heroes can't touch either. Us H/H-ers need love too y'know.204.10.131.97 14:52, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Spark, I think you need to have your | sarcasm detector checked. Just a hunch. --RoyHarmon 19:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Rofl, my sarcasm detector works fine now, just got professor frink to repair, ty for letting me know, lol.Spark-TBa 08:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Builds
Now with this update, it seems that many scythe skills have been balanced, but most Enchantments are nerfed. Without Eternal aura, I will need to adapt again. Youah Linn
 * Avatars and HoF are maintainable without Eternal Aura. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  15:02, 18 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was enjoying bashing around with an Avatar of Grenth + Daggers (zealous & vamp, swapping) build in PvE. It was fun enough, but hardly overpowered. I'd just used up some of my WiK medals on Alari's Doubleblades for it too :,( Oh well, back to the drawing board. They nerfed Perma within a few weeks of me finally deciding to try that one out as well, and I had wasted time & cash with weaps, runes and mods for all that. I will miss the old Eternal Aura though, as it was a handy spike & recharge, especially on the undead. Not everything is about PvP or uber-farming. 204.10.131.97 15:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ...You can still run grenth daggers. You just don't need eternal aura anymore.  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  15:37, 18 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Grenth life steal only affect's scythes now. So running it with daggers is kinda pointless. 66.61.119.166 17:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Derp. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  0:32, 19 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea.. Avatars can be maintained, but they killed Lyssa's awsomeness so why bother. Who needs to tank, all you really needed was to kill. Now you can hardly do that. Mils. 142.78.8.4 18:04, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

dervishes are dead
For everyone who spent time and a lot of ingame money on their dervishes, they are now totally useless.

The new skills are worthless, and the schyth barely makes any damages. The dervish is now just a useless character, who will run after the ennemis and don't do much.

just cancel the update, you'll make everyone happy.


 * Whoever said they are dead, I want to slap you with my scythe, Stop crying because you cant spam your ZV Build anymore. Whip on AoG Couple of FE      that do +dmg on hit and you will do more than "barely makes any damages" Start actually trying to play the game instead of filling your bar with attack skills. Scrub. --DeathsSon 17:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Devishes weren't supposed to be doing twice the damage of any other melee profession out there. Now they do similar damage to warriors. You can basically think of the dervish as a warrior minus [tanking capabilities] plus [support enchantments]. It now evens out pretty well IMHO. 78.92.0.220 14:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Now they do similar damage to warriors." <--- now I use warriors as purely tanks and have two dervs replaces up to four moments of my 8 party team, because of the sheer amount of AOE damage that produce. Warriors do more damage one on one, but Dervs make them look like chimps as wiping out whole parties if you do it right 203.109.211.56 21:58, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1/10. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  15:03, 18 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * how can you say their dead less than 24 hours after the update was released, its not dead just different imo, the prof is dead when people stop making them, my guilds dervs already have usable pve builds now and are working on HM builds as we speak.Spark-TBa 15:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't spend my life on this game like your guild probably does, and I don't want to spend hours looking for a new build. It took me enough time to build it already. If I built a Derviche, it's not for it to look like a warrior. even before when I delt heavy damages, a warrior could beat me. Now there just won't be any equality. The update sucks, and once again, it will profit only nolifes.
 * You forgot to sign. Also, if you want to play something that requires no skill, try a fire ele. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  15:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Having actually played around with the new skills, I've found that running AoB/AoHM with a couple of Flash Enchants and a cancel skill (currently using Zeal Ren and Myst Corrupt with Pious Assault for condition pressure), plus a couple of other generic damage skills is actually doing more damage than the average Dervish build was for me (at least against mobs, but that's fine for a lot of PvE), prior to the update. Maybe actually trying to find new combinations for the skills would be a better use of your time than just pointlessly trashing a skill update straight away. Amitiel 15:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Mai, Im pretty sure you ment RitualistsUser Fantil Swift Sig Icon.jpg antil   Swift  16:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Shame on ANET. Dervish was actually fun to play before the update. Now it's useless. Fukkin stupid ruinous change to a profession that didn't need anything. I strongly suggest to put these derv changes into PvP-only mode and revert to the prior skills for PvE play. And restore the PvE-only skills, since they don't work in PvP anyway.
 * Haters always make me laugh. -- smøni  17:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * i like the fact that in this section the QQers dont wanna be identified, since they always forget to sign :P  Spark-TBa 17:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I was putting numbers to those names but I'm getting tired of chasing down the same 2 or 3 scofflaws... plus this page doubled in size while I was sleeping so I don't feel like picking through that many entries. I really wish we could just straight up delete unsigned comments at this point since they're not adding anything beneficial to the wiki here. ...That said... for 10 months of work, this was just 2 steps forward and 2 steps back.  Yes it's successfully made the skill-curve of the dervish something besides a straight line, it's now actually a curve.  But it's still plateau'ing at the same point it always did (I've been crunching numbers while y'all were arguing conjecture).  The same investment of player skill still has better results on most Casters.  Any new skill combos you can come up with here, can be easily shot down as less effective than the current Caster metas and less "Tanky" than the Tank metas.  It was certainly a lot of work, but it's gotten us nowhere in PvE. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 21:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

This update gives me hope...
I was messing around on my dervish last night after the update happened (fast turnaround on that one... after the looooooooonnnnng wait between the mesmer preview and the update, I was surprised) and realized that, if ANet does the same thing to paras, I'll be a very happy camper come the next update.

Sure, every build I have for my derv is now destroyed... but after some experimentation, I realized that I can do many of the same things with more micro (a LOT more). Powering spells with 'roid-rage (see Mystic Sandstorm) is a bit odd, but very helpful. I like the new Reaper's Sweep, and that now replaces Wounding Strike in my builds. The new Onslaught makes slapping together a Wind tempting as well.

I see a lot of dervish players are upset at the rework, but if they took the time to actually play with the changes and experiment with new combos, they'll come around.

(I still say that paras and hex removal should have been a higher priority, though... just had to get that out there.)<font family="Cambria" color="green">Ash <font family="Cambria" color="green">Dragonshadow  15:46, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Asuraway
Don't hang your heads yet, just go ahead and clean every place solo HM with Asuraway from the new update. Asuraway 17:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Or spiritexplosionway: http://img89.imageshack.us/i/spirtway2.gif/ -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  17:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I dont get how either of those work.. Care to explain? --DeathsSon 17:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * For spirits, cast them. When the skills recharge, cast it again. Use BUH. Repeat. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  17:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Or you could combine the two? Amitiel 17:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * lawwwlll, nice1 Test Krewe... how do ya miss something like THAT? -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 21:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * double lol, I just read somewhere else that test krewe didn't even get these changes to test, all they got were the dervish ones. So all this time they were hyping over a more melee-friendly version in general -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 06:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lol, that's awesome. Get ready to be called a shitter though, you found something hilarious and fun, you're now evil. <I>Ghosst</I>   •  Talk  •
 * Hopefully it will be nerfed soon so... -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  17:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * LOlololol Ritway is SIIICK! Idc if its EZ mode but im clearing UW by myself as you read this! >:D --DeathsSon 18:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, now they just need to get rid of warriors with hammers. There's too many of those in game, so hammers will soon be used for the new "carpenter" skill. Because I mean, it follows the same logic - people are having fun! This must stop!! I'm so glad I only ever used BUH on my ele which I rarely look at, and never touched my dervish anyway. The amount of hatred in all chat is funny though. Some people just can't figure out that pissing off your customers is not the wisest way to keep them playing. <I>Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * That is not what I mean. I agree it is fun (I've vanquished a few areas already), but I do not like things that can be abused to do things like speedclears. When things like this happen, it ruins the skill for normal PVE players. For example, the UW used to be able to be completed by normal PuGs. Now they made a thousand changes to kill the SC, but it hardly stops it. Meanwhile, it is practically impossible for normal groups, even non-PuGs, to complete the UW. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  18:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh I agree with what you're saying but just the idea that ArenaNet needs to spy on what builds we use and then gets mad if we don't use the skills they want us to is silly. From a business standpoint all the random skill changes do is annoy people and drive them to play other games. I mean I guess it makes good business sense if you get paid by Blizzard. The people who rely on one build aren't actually doing anything wrong; the elitists might call them names, but the worst thing they are doing is having fun which now seems to be a crime. <I>Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * Mai Yi, I got des and troyed by the smites. Then forced reset :(--DeathsSon 21:44, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * LOL Good luck with The Four Horsemen and the fight with Dhuum Deathson. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  18:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have one handy (my boss gets angry when I play GW at work ...) but I wonder what a minion master would be like now? <I>Ghosst</I>   •  Talk  •
 * As there is a limit on minions, I doubt it will work but I will try. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  18:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * minions and BuH do not work, a guildie already informed me of this, strange its the only thing it doesnt seem to work on :) unless its to do with corpses.Spark-TBa 18:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe it does not work because there is a cap on the amount of minions. To Ghosst; I don't believe they are doing anything wrong with this kind of stuff, it's just that when they use this to do speedclears and things, it forces ANET to nerf the skill and ruin it for everyone. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  18:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Flesh Golem? <I>Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * Bye bye bugs and exploits! --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 19:10, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * YES! -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  19:12, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Really, I don't even see how UWSC affects my play at all. If I need ectos, I go get them. If they aren't worth 10K each, oh well. If someone else has a mini Dhuum it doesn't hurt my feelings. The prestiege of UW was limited the moment players entered the game in the first place, so it doesn't have anything to do with that. About the only argument I could see is the economy but then again why does ANet care what the price of ectos is? It was 5Kish, now it's 9Kish; they should be happy. If people don't like SC, then hey, don't do it. If you want to go down with a build that doesn't work, feel free. But the moment a new build is made that works, if those people use it, then they're bad? So what? Who cares if other players are bad? It just makes no sense. (Oh and feel free to split this part off into a new section so the new Asuraway doesn't get lost in the details.) <I>Ghosst</I>    •  Talk  •
 * I never said they were bad. Just that whenever I want to try UW, i sit in ToA for an hour looking for a non-existent group. My only other alternative is to try it with just me and my three heroes, which will always fail. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' talk  19:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)



Armor cap
Does anyone know if the mysticism bonus is subject to the armor cap? --JonTheMon 17:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Without screenies (because I didn't think of that); no, it adds to base armor like a shield or armor mod. - Infinite - talk 19:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

The mysticism armor thing is useless, because it requires enchantment. Derv enchantments are removed at the drop of a hat (any hat). You must rely on non-derv enchantments to increase armor. Before the update, Conviction was a stance for +24 armor, now it blows chunks.
 * Conviction was worse than Vow of Piety and still is? Oh, yeah, that's what I thought you said.  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  0:31, 19 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Who cares? Most of the REAL fights involves crap that ignores your armor anyway. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 05:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * We care. If no one cared about AL then why the heck would anyone ever use "Save Yourselves!" or have Imba's. --Saxon 14:34, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That's the point though, only n00bs think it's a Panacea. ... (mine doesn't even own SY!) -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 22:29, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The point is, AL does make a difference. Or else I might as well never wear armor and send casters to the front line. And if you think SY! is useless that's fine. It's your opinion. But the Imba was rated a Meta build by the non noob gw community. I myself don't have an Imba, nor does my war use SY!, but AL does matter to me and others. Don't be a downer. --Saxon 00:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Aura of Holy Might
Ok as much as many ppl I love the update it makes my derv make things go BOOM(litterly-sry for bad english) but there is only 1 thing about it that realy made me sad and that is the change to aura of holy might i liked how it was before and even though its good as it is now i liked the older version much better and realy this change also made other classes that uses scythes pretty much useless i was thinking about making it like the Elemental Lord skill that lets say the bonus 12% will go towards the title and the other 20% will go towards the mysticism line say for every 5 points of Mysticism they get an extra 10% while capped at 20% not including the rank bonus. That way other classes will be able to use scythe with decent dmg and Dervs as the main class will be able to do more dmg. Of course the numbers are just examples and i dont care how they do it but plz return it to its original way :(. What do you guys think? Kingmor 18:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The way they explained it in the dev post, it sounds like raw +damage% skills in general were causing problems, not just AoHM. Hence why those other three PvE skills got completely revamped. 96.33.173.168 03:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, scythe on assassins for a lot of critical hits in combination with pure damage augmentations were the basis for a fair number of speed clears, or at least UWSC that I know of. Not to say that speed clears in general are a bad thing, but when someone can solo a large section of the UW, I think it's gotten a bit too far. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 04:27, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

We wouldn't have to come up with exotic builds for solo'ing elite areas, if anet allowed a team full of heroes and henchies. Forcing more than one real player on a team for an elite area is ridiculous. Let us play the game the way we want to play it. (Disclaimer: I am all in support of balancing the economy and making farmers earn their loot. That doesn't have anything to do with making a kickass dervish for rampaging through difficult hard mode areas, which is what anet has ended.)
 * I was about to rant at you for mentioning that areas in the game were too hard, but then you implied that heroes and henchies would be a good idea for elite areas and I lol'd. The point is that they should be hard, not simple to rampage through with the class of your choice. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 02:35, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * unless that class is a caster or SF/obsid tank right? ...wait, wasn't his point about heroes? Yeah most ppl would rather take a nec hero than your average human-being playing a melee class. Especially now.  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 04:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm speaking of ideals, not the current situation. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 05:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

To those about to document
This should help. --ஸ Kyoshi 18:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool. Thx Kyoshi. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 19:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Constant 50% IMS?
Dwarven Stability + Flash Enchantment (w/quick recharge) + Pious Haste = Constant 50% IMS!!! This will help any Droks Derv Runners. --Saxon 19:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Would be more trouble than it's worth in the first half where you have to maintain VoS. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 21:52, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * wuts SF. 98.207.35.105 00:35, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A D/A can't run perma SF and A/D's can't use P.H. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 04:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * why hello.– User Balistic B d-dark.png<font color="#7777cc">alistic 05:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * >stance ... ಠ_ಠ -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 09:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I guess the options are recast Flash Enchantment>Pious>VoS every 12 seconds (2 seconds of VoS downtime) or just cast Pious>VoS (perma VoS w/25% IMS if you're in a jam). Either way, there are only a few places where you need perma VoS/SF for running. The updates still rocks.--Saxon 14:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You all sound like total amateurs: You don't *need* perma SF to run anywhere. - Infinite - talk 14:27, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Running droks is kinda dead, what is the point of this? 195.240.213.35 14:51, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As long as there are people that need runs runner builds and even new ones will never be pointless. Damysticreaper 16:39, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of us Run "because it's there". I think I've taken actual players to Droks all of 3 whole times in the last 5 years, but I've ran it over 50 times and even documented every mob along the way. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 23:21, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Btw
Didn't see anyone mention it, but this update introduced like 10 ways to get a Primal Rage-esque effect. Expect those to run rampant for some time. Morphy 20:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Look again. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 20:39, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Primal Rage
Welcome Back. -- Briar    The Spider  21:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * True, true. Almoust back.--X10Dead 23:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Does the IAS from both those skills stack? --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 00:27, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  0:30, 19 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * It'd be an anomaly or bug if it did, wouldn't it? --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 00:33, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Stacks to 33% 98.207.35.105 00:35, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Figured I missed something. I was thinking that it wouldn't stack at all if it would go past the cap. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 00:37, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * R U Trawlin?? ...I said these exact words about Onslaught & Whirling WAAAAAAY back when Primal originally WAS nerfed and everyone was QQ'ing about it in between their RAWR Hatin'.  Ppl were like,  "Oh well that's completely different!" and I was like, WTF??  There's no DOWNSIDE??  You're still moving and attacking at 33% but with no double damage penalty... The cast time on Onslaught was not even noticable at the time and that's the only thing that's changed.  Really?  What has changed here besides some extra  gain?  You needed 2 skill slots to make Primal work (1 cancel stance)... and you've always needed 2 slots to make this dervish knock off work only now you can't stack other enchants with it b/c half of them became flashers too.  PvP'ers find the stupidest damn things to freak out about, I swear! -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 04:46, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You can stack flash enchantments, they're just disabled for about 1-2 seconds when one is cast. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 15:21, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a big difference between a 1 second enchantment and a flash enchantment. Its almost as good as a stance.-- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  16:08, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Not to put too fine of a point on it, flash enchantments are simply enchantments that cast instantly without aftercast delay. They can "stack" but not "chain". You cannot use skill chaining on two consecutive flash enchantments.

Eternal Aura
Anyone seen this?! I was running to slavers exile by myself to get a weapon, got near the entrance but those wind riders jumped me, i was feet away then died.. but I have Eternal aura on my as part of the build for the hp buff, suddenly Im standing where I died with 50% hp and 30% mana!! '''IT RESES YOU IF YOU DIE! OMGWTFBBQ'''.. I mean. Pretty cool huh..? --DeathsSon 00:53, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah I tested it thinking it was like that rit skill. You die, it ends, you rez kinda deal. And it works while also giving you +100hp making yourself even more death resistent. Justice 02:01, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Hero AI
Just wondering about this update. I notice that it lists, NPCS,Bosses, and Mobs AI were updated for new skills. Been watching heroes and have seen others complaining that heroes dont use many of the skills. I have noticed heroes wont Use Mystic Vigor and Mystic Sandstorm at all, at least in my experience. Is there any notes about Dervish Heroes AI updates with the new Dervish system? I wonder if this is something we should be looking for during this period of taking care of the details as they see fit. Anyone seen any word of this at all? 69.242.196.134 01:16, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I just cleared the skill bars of my derv heroes. They are useless now and I have other heroes that still do a decent job, like necro (mm and ss), and nukers and monks.

Rending Aura isn't being used at all, even with a delicious knocked down foe adjacent. Test of Faith isn't being used at all on un-enchanted foes, 180 seconds of wailing on the Master of Damage produced 0 uses. Not sure about enchanted foes but I've watched my hero beat the Master of Enchanting to death without touching the skill once. They can be fairly strong skills, it would be nice if I didn't have to micro their uses. Racthoh 09:15, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure a updated for the melee-hero AI was announced so just wait and see what it does when it arrives. Lou Wolfskin 10:18, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that announcement was made prior to this update, but even still that doesn't explain why heroes just won't use skills unless told to. I can understand issues relating to flash enchantments, or heroes using teardown skills with no enchantments up, to a point. But this is not strictly a melee AI issue. This is skills just not being used at all. Racthoh 20:37, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Harrier's Grasp Bug
Concise Skill description doesnt show the duration of cripple. <font color="Black">||   <font color="Black">Dark  <font color="Black">Mugen  02:43, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Scythe attack speed
Does anyone know the new attack speed of scythe, or did they just mean the IAS is better? It still looks like 1.5 to me, and also AoG is OP, without RC. Hp steal and disease is too much, drop the disease and keep HP steal tbh.
 * It used to be 1.75, it's 1.5 now. <font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 03:11, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh... that makes sense. Does anyone know the new scythe crit damage formula?108.76.71.190 03:17, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone does. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 03:20, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I did 16 attacks in 20 sec(Used flash ench as a timer, starting as soon as it was casted). 20/16 = 1.25. 1.25 is pretty unique, so it might just be 1.33. It is definitely not 1.5.--99.225.28.182 05:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Test it again, make sure.108.68.160.249 06:40, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Was it
a step in the right direction? 91.139.171.116 07:12, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure if removing other professions from play is a good thing. I can load my party with two well build dervs they can wipe the floor with HM mobs.  It's kinda funny to watch.  203.118.174.125 09:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Define well built ... IoW: ping builds or stfu -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 09:38, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ... --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons 09:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Only problem with the Derv update...
I don't have a problem with any of the actual gameplay parts but the name Flash enchantment somewhat seems misplaced. This is something I would expect to be used as an Air Magic skill type name, not so much with a Derv skill. Something like "Swift Enchantment" sounds a bit better to, but other than that, this is a great update! --<font color="Olive">Sage  <font color="Olive">Talk  07:12, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * GW draws much influence from MtG. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 07:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Furious Scythe Mod
Great idea about the adrenaline requirement for the non-Enchantment dependent scythe attack skills but where is the Furious Scythe Snaithe?  <font color="#000040">Bearz  14:23, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It's been in existence all along. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 16:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Doh! Of course it has. I must have that second cup of coffee before I put foot in mouth or paws to keyboard!  <font color="#000040">Bearz [[Image:User Bearz pawprint.png|19px| ]] 16:35, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

When will they learn proper english? :D

 * - If the conditions are met, it recharges in 3 seconds. But the description says it would recharge in 8 seconds (rounded up).
 * - Same deal.
 * - Recharges in 5 seconds. Description says it recharges in 13 seconds (rounded up).
 * - Same as above.
 * - Same as Light.

So, if each of these descriptions would say the recharge time is reduced by 75%, they would all be correct. - J.P. Talk </b> 11:04, 23 February 2011 (UTC)


 * ...No the description says they recharge 75% faster which means -75% which is roughly 3|5|5 (respectively) you're just stupid and don't pay attention to your own language...
 * grammar nazi'd -99.247.191.9 00:49, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 75% faster would mean that the rate or speed at which it recharges (for example, 1 skill recharge per 1 second) would be increased by 75% (1.75 skills recharge per 1 second), which divides out to 1 skill recharged per 0.5714285714285714 seconds. Also, don't insult people, especially when you're wrong. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 06:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Kyoshi's right, but since when were game designers necessarily physicists or mathematicians? They should say the recharge time/duration is reduced by a percentage amount rather than the ambiguous "faster". G R E E N E R  06:52, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

EDA on Spears

 * is adding it's extra damage to spears apparently. I got a screen of me hitting normally for 27... then popping Dust Cloak and lvl-15 EDA, and then hitting for 67.  I don't *think* it's applying Blind too, so Debating whether to report it or not. Doesn't seem like a big deal, just thought I'd point it out for anyone else who likes playing around with stuff like this. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 05:39, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Is your weapon dealing earth damage, or is it just a normal spear? --JonTheMon 05:40, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Y'know I thought the same thing at first, so that's why I just equipped a zealous spear instead and Dust Cloak to convert the damage type... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 05:44, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * So, it seems like the new EDA is a conjure earth with blind at the beginning and removal at the end. Don't really see why it would need to be pointed out more. --JonTheMon 05:47, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Damn it, I can read. As there is a bug note already on EDA's page, I think it doesn't need to be said here. --JonTheMon 05:59, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well adding aditional damage identical a conjure for an elite to a ranged attack isn't really OP if you ask me. I was supprised to first read it's function only working on melee instead of all attacks like the 3 conjuure spells. Seems like the function is different and hopefully intended instead of being a bug. In this case i would prefer seeing the description of EDA be updated to all attacks instead of melee attack so it's more in line with the non elite conjures. Damysticreaper 12:05, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * TY for arguing my case. Yeah a bug note is fine, I was just on the fence about reporting it to the QA feedback ...seems a bit reactionary for a typed damage (I'm assuming it's not like Conjure in that it actually is reduced heavily by high armor in HM right?) -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 23:00, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No it's damage is identical in number and function, like the conjures EDA's damage also isn't affected by AR. If it were to be affected by it it would be as good as useless for PvE high end and HM. Damysticreaper 11:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Same mistake
No offense but this dervish update is same mistake as that time everyone only played R/A 'cos the stances on ranger were buffed and whole game was like there was only R/A-s in it... Same is now only with dervishes... You said your goal was to make game more balanced but when people base their gameplay only on 1 class and almost not any other isn't that the just the opposite... All I'm saying is that before the update more classes were used in playing and more teames at least looked like balanced teams (apart from spike builds that you dont see much often in gvg) and now all of teh suddenly you can see more and more teams with only dervishes in 'em, warriors are getting replaced, blind bots are back (ebon dust aura that is, not cheat bots)...

Just an opinion of this player, nothing more...

Josip --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 78.2.176.14 (talk).
 * No matter how hard Dervishes have been buffed, They're still melle's. which means they're still Underpowered. Every single Caster class has a non-elite way to make them completely ineffectual. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  20:31, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Mainly by using conditions and hexes wich the dervish has some excellent counters for. Altough anti caster hexes seem to be more effective on a derv than anti melee hexes and conditions. Damysticreaper 21:53, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You will adapt, resistance is futile. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 22:00, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * God damn borg, togtfo you mechanical zombies!-99.247.191.9 00:52, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of the current Dervish overload is due to novelty- people haven't had anything new to play with in about a year, so they're all getting out their Dervishes and seeing what they can do. Most of it unfortunately is because Dervishes are very powerful now. Various skills will be nerfed and in a few months they'll still be dominant bullshit be replaced by the next power creep. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 09:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Suggested dervish builds
vandalism is not appreciated. users on THIS page have been asking for new builds that work for the dervish update. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.47.27.36 (talk).
 * This page is designed to give feedback to the game developers based on the 17 Feb. 2011 update. If you wish to discuss builds, you can go to PvX or to a user's talk-page. G R E E N E R  19:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, the rage of it all
Funny to see all the raging going on. When the derv was first released, it was like I was home. Just remember, Guild Wars is a game...builds should represent play style and not just "how fast can I move thru the game." Menelmacar 20:17, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * People had there expectations too high and are now disapointed that the dervish didn't become the allmighty death god reaping trough everything and all they had hoped for. Damysticreaper 21:29, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * If so, it's b/c the Mesmer update had an immediate impact on the Metas. This update did not. If anything, this update only made things worse by hard-capping higher Physical damage (nerfs to BuH/Scan) which just further reinforces the advantages of running full SF-Sin teams /w lower-DMG packet-spam for the vast majority of PvE content. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 23:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

By Ural's Hammer
Another poor skill change. This really screws up my mesmer builds in UW. I thought ok - not a big deal, I will just switch to intensity - only that has been nerfed too. The other problem with the BUH skill change is that it really messes up my ranger builds too. It was bad enough asuran scan being changed but to change this too is just a slap in the face for rangers. Finally, the change messes up my spike necro builds. It seems that Anet do not want us to be inventive with our builds but wants everyone playing with the same boring builds of panic/sig mesmer, barrage ranger, and mm. I'm sorry, how does every damage build in existence being instantly better with BUH qualify anything using BUH to be called inventive? It's an obvious skill choice, not a unique twist. --ஸ Kyoshi 01:06, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes I feel you :( It didn't just nerf the Dervs, but all kind of damage especially physical. Now I'm running APs build which always been very strong, but very redundant. I use to like playing with different weapons on different chars and still make as much damage as AP. Now the scythe is as useless as all other weapons. Oh yea you may buff yourself and make damage with your enchants, but why have weapons then... Yep for me it's Assassin's_Promise.jpg, "You_Move_Like_a_Dwarf!".jpg, Ebon_Vanguard_Assassin_Support.jpg, "Finish_Him!".jpg and some other things, until they nerf it because it's all armor ignoring and impossible to block. Everytime people have "fun" anet nerf skills. Mils. 142.78.8.4 18:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Absolutely the stupidest derv update. Just because adrenaline junkies on warriors and paragons were complaining about dervish, doesn't mean that dervish needed any changing. Also changing the PvE skills was just plain stupid. I HATE THIS GODDAMM UPDATE. The elite scythe attacks are ABSOLUTELY USELESS. The enchantment removal was BRAINDAMAGED FROM THE START. There was no reason to make it worse. Nerfing the scythe? BRAINDAMAGE again! Fuk this...goddamm morons.66.47.27.36 23:02, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * In terms of game balance and game design, this update is among the very best decisions ANet made in a very long-time, which is sadly, 3 years overdue. --Falconeye 23:15, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "It seems that Anet do not want us to be inventive with our builds but wants everyone playing with the same boring builds"
 * Non-dervish scythe users really can't control their rage it seems. The dervish wasn't nerfed it has been buffed with the improved teardown mechanic. Altough having miced feelings of Reaper's Sweep Wounding Strike has become even better now. With the teardown function and +damage it now has you can spread conditions around very easy. With the teardown requirment it makes spamming difficult balancing it out so it's a great fix. Same goes to many other scythe attacks, they all have powerful functions using the teardown mechanic and preventing non dervs from doing better damage with the scythe. So stop raging already because you rage at an update that has been designed to prevent guys like you from doing better than the dervish itself. And no mather how much you rage and rant it won't change because the intended goal of this update has been succesfully achieved. Buffing the dervish and preventing non dervs from doing better damage with the scythe and still keeping it balanced.Damysticreaper 11:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Give me back my old Dervish, please.
After giving the update a month to prove itself, I want my old Dervish back. I thought the class was great before, now I barely even want to log into the game anymore, as Dervish has been my main character for nearly 4 years. It seems as though the days of Guild Wars being a game where you are free to make your characters how you want them and being encouraged to be creative are over. Just because it wasn't an extremely popular class does not mean it needed to be completely changed, effectively taking any work the players (who are your customers, and therefore the source of revenue for your game) have done and rendering it useless and a waste of time. Yes, I agree that the class could have been improved with some of the changes. Flash enchantments were a great idea, that was a large problem in the past. Many times the enemy or enemies would be dead before the enchantment/removal combo could be properly executed. Scythe damage has been reduced to nearly nothing though, which was a poor move. If exploitation by other professions was the main reason for the change that was seen, then there should have been a reduction in damage for classes other than Dervish, that would give people an incentive to play the profession as well. The overall change has been negative in my opinion. I feel that the whole process could have been done better, such as getting feedback on proposed changes prior to implementation, rather than forcing them upon us the way that was done. There is no longer the variety that was provided with the old skill set, we are now being forced to play the Dervish the one and only way the developers want it to be played. Long-time Dervish players have been alienated by the development team with this update, and as a result I will do everything in my power to talk my guild, alliance, and otherwise out of purchasing Guild Wars 2.
 * See one of the trillion other posts about how the dervish was "ruined". Also, Dervished did way too much damage. -- <font color="#FF00FF">'Mai Yi ' {T    C}  21:35, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Would you care to point me in the direction of another avenue to share my thoughts then, if you disapprove of what I have to say so much? Nothing can be changed if voices aren't heard.
 * Feedback:Getting started. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 03:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Use feedback; its about the -ONLY- legal outlet that Anet can read/use, which means all other forums/blogs/wikis/etc. on thier official list of fansites are just rants to peers and other players that represent only a small % of the gaming community. And please sign in with four ~ ~ ~ ~ . --Falconeye 03:18, 18 March 2011 (UTC)