User talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Wiki Topics/June - July 2007

Builds opinion
I'd like your opinion on the posibility of adding a "builds" section to this wiki. There's a lot of discussion here in the most recent detail and here for the general discussion but nothing conclusive. Most of it talks about a lot of hassle while others complain about usefulness or even increasing traffic on the wiki. I can see all sides to it but am curious as to your opinion as a player (obviously one who may also have an insiders view that may help to open our outsider eyes). Thanks. --  Vallen Frostweaver  14:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * At the risk of sounding either wishy-washy or political, I have to say that my opinion about this is that... I don't know that I have an opinion about this. Like you, I truly see all sides. I have followed the discussions closely, and do know that some feel that builds are subjective, and that they are not as factual as some would like to keep the GWW. Others feel that they as extremely helpful. And others still think they're great, but believe that in a game that continues to evolve, it's difficult to keep the builds up to date, meaning that a build section may require more maintenance by the contributors or more frequent review by others. I think that the latter can be worked around, though, so that should not be a stopping point. I trust that those who have been involved with wikis for a longer period of time--particularly game-related wikis--will have a far more valid opinion that mine. In the end, I will be interested in seeing how the GWW community decides to handle the question of having a builds section. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 07:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Please Archive
This humungous -sp?- wall of text is scary, and it makes your talk page load much slower, you think it might be time to weed out the older conversations into Archivyness? And btw, Zhed the Hoofmeister is the best name ever (I might even submit it.) -  Drago 23:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can archive -- will try to do that today. It's sort of a long process, since I insisted on creating a bunch of buckets and some of them have mini-buckets within the buckets. Oh wait, we just increased the "wall of text," didn't we? ;) --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 23:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Copyright help
I'm unsure who I should ask about this but I think someone from ArenaNet should take a look. Any help is much appreciated thank you. :) - B e X  12:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Archiving, as I did respond at the time. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 00:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

RFA process
As you've previously voiced concern over sysop term lengths, I think it would be good to get your opinion of the working draft at Guild Wars Wiki:Requests for adminship. Note that it hasn't yet been thoroughly reviewed by the rest of the community and isn't even totally complete, but most of the shape is there. --Rezyk 23:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm so sorry, Rezyk, but I cannot see a word about term limits. Can you point me in the proper direction of seeing that bit? --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 07:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There isn't one - sysops are a for-life-unless-recalled thing. I think that's what he was wondering about your input on. MisterPepe talk 07:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoops, sorry -- didn't see this response when I should have. There aren't any explicit term limits, but there is a mechanism for triggering reconfirmation that attempts to softly fill that role. Anyways, please check out the latest responses in Guild Wars Wiki talk:Requests for adminship when you can. Thanks! --Rezyk 01:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing this out. I've added a couple of questions about triggered as opposed to automatic, periodic reconfirmations. I don't mean to belabour the point, but I am curious about others' thoughts. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 08:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Please check out the latest modified proposal, and discussion, on this when you can. I still hope you'll eventually be convinced to not always have a periodic review -- for now though, this new proposal would allow any user (including yourself) to trigger them at least once per year per sysop, but requires one to be proactive about it. --Rezyk 02:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good plan! --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Moving discussions
See above for the tag that you should place under the heading when moving the actual discussion to somewhere else. I think you might need it quite often. ;) -- (gem / talk) 18:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Marvelous. Thank you for the help! --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind (your user page images)
Hey Gaile, I thought I would take the liberty of uploading the images you use on your userpage with the correct file name. Whenever you find the time could you replace your images used with Image:User Gaile Gray Mini1.jpg & Image:User Gaile Gray Mini2.jpg, I hope you do not mind me uploading the images and tagging them for you, I am sure you are very busy with other things :) --Jamie 14:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's marvelous, Jamie. I never got around to getting those changed myself, and haven't solicited the help to make them into what I want them to be, so renaming makes things ever so much tidier. Thanks! --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 17:46, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

User page
I'd hate to the one to break this to other users, but.... Gaile, your user page is getting a little too long for GWW:USER. -- ab.er. rant  08:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh ^^ Maybe you can archive some of your blog-like messages? poke | talk 08:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You lie Aberrant, be honest, you loved it! I don't blame you though for taking some pleasure in a high profile "busted" manoeuvre considering how many mass formatting edits you make, why not live on the edge! --Xasxas256 12:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, why not archive for her? She's a busy gal and always asking for someone to do her archiving anyway.  I'm sure she won't mind. ;D --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  12:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, personally, I would've preferred some more images and some color :P -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 14:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Huh? Colour? Images? Where?? On my page? But...but... you guys say the page is too long, so what am I to do?
 * Ok, fine, I'll trundle off and see if I can archive something. Somewhere. Maybe. ;) --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 18:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I love that you said colour. ;D - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 21:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I know the proper spelling of things, never fear. It grieves me that we spell it "armor" in the game. *sigh* The only one I didn't seem to pick up at school in England was "organisation." --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 22:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've become so terrible because of the wiki that I use "armor" and "color" (bloody formatting tags!). I tend to prefer the zations myself too. The s is just a bit too soft. But I mustn't forget that I'm a Commonwealth citizen at heart! Humour, colour, armour, honour! - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 22:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hah.. i knew it was spelled Armour, colour honour.. just couldn't figure out why it's spelled differently in the game.. hah.. ^,.,^ Teo ^,.,^ User Talk:Teo 23:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the game uses the American spellings. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 01:47, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ahh... kk [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] (Teo / talk) 10:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * BeXoR, I see you are familiar with the Commonwealth Heraldry. LordBiro 19:29, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Pffft. You're missing the all-important "vigour" there. :) --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol ^^ [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] (Teo / talk) 20:03, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fantastic! X) - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 03:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of the elation I felt when I saw the Vancouver Harbour Centre&mdash;best building name ever. -- Dashface [[Image:User_Dashface.png]] 03:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol ^^ [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] (Teo / talk) 13:11, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Color color color color color color color color >.< - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 19:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * lol... [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] (Teo / talk) 22:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts for you section
Just going to add another language for "My Friend": ο φίλος μου (transliterated to o pheelos mou, as far as I can tell). Ebany Salmonderiel 18:42, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's very nice! I was hoping to include all of the languages in which Guild Wars is presented, and expand as we add more. What language is "ο φίλος μου?" Thanks for sharing! --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 06:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's Greek. -- Scourge  [[Image:User Scourge Spade.gif]] 06:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, I'm not sure the Japanese for my friend is correct. 友 should be tomo, which is friend. I don't think you need the 人 which means person or a qualifier for counting people as far as I understand. I think you could either just drop 人 or replace it with 達 to make 私の友達. Take this advice with a grain of salt, as I have only studied Japanese for four semesters in college. I'm sure someone out there knows better than I. Kami No Kei 02:25, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What Gaile has there right now, 私の友人, does mean 'my friend'. '友人' is another word for 'friend' (人, in this case, is not acting as a counter or qualifier). Albeit, as you point out, 友達 may be the more well known (certainly the more taught in terms of Japanese language classes), and is probably the more used in the Japanese language. To my ears, 私の友達 sounds a tad more natural (and certainly more colloquial), so you may want to change it, Gaile, if you feel the need (^_^)v. Kokuou 01:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's great, and I've made that change. Thank you kindly for the assistance! --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 18:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

How do I... ?
So, GWW Friends: See that pink box up at the top, there? I figured out how to resize it, and keep it centered, but I cannot figure out how to nudge it up so that it nestles in between the TOC and the Archive box. While I may continue to experiment (and might just make a mess of things) can you advise what code I need to add to place it top-justified and centered? I should probably explain that I'm trying to make the most of the top-page real estate and it seems that content is bumped really low, so putting the "Paws" box in the center top would be really nice. Thanks! --Gaile 02:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not the best at coding, but you could try putting the archive box and the notice on the same subpage. If you look at my talk page thingy it seems to work there. :< - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 02:50, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that would work, except then I'd get the main page "Are you on the right page" on every archive page, too, right? Hmmmm... --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 02:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you would. It might just be because the archive box is a floated table and the warning message is a div. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 02:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Though, im sorry to say, it may not be possible. Maybe GWW itself is justifying anything below the contents box as the "top" of the screen. I'm no master, as well.:P[[image:ranger-icon-small.png]]Blackie ewilson92 03:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If you replace  with   and then stick a   under the code for your box you can get something close to what you want.  I had to remove the |left from your paw image to get that back into the box afterwards, and that makes it lose its place there.  But give it a try and see if that will work for you.  --Rainith 04:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Good feedback. I think I fiddled with things so much (thank heavens for Show preview!) that I don't know exactly what I used and didn't use, but it's almost there now. And I have to admit, I'm having fun here. Thanks! --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 04:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just tried changing the |left to |center and it looked a little better IMO, but I'll leave that up to you. :)  --Rainith 04:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Darn editing conflicts! ;) I see what I need: Something to make it wrap around the pawprint. I'll look at the code, but I tossed in some "floats" and other stuff, and frankly I don't know that I can figure out how to make the text flow to be at the top and flow down, rather than start below the pawprint. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 04:19, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Is this what you fancy? -- [[Image:User Corrran sig.png|CoRrRan]] (CoRrRan / talk) 11:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow. I guess it IS possible. Man, I need to study up on my Wiki-Code.[[image:ranger-icon-small.png]]Blackie ewilson92 14:49, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Woot, CoRrRan, thank you kindly! It's just right now! Well, I guess in all honesty I've made the top of my page look a little like a jumble sale at St. Bart's, but oh well -- it seems to work nicely. ;) --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 17:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Permision
Could you please respond to this,tnx ~ Kurd 19:37, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Can you tell me if that was what you were seeking? A commentary on archiving practices? --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 06:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks a lot :) ~ Kurd [[Image:Kurdsig.png]] 10:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletions
I really don't think it is on purpose, but we need to make sure we don't accidentally delete user comments on talk pages. Example On the Wiki we pretty much never delete or censor anything that isn't vandalism, even if it is a user deleting his own comments. If you need to move something to the correct location, it is often best to place a redirect on the old page so that users can find the new spot. I just want to make it clear this is not meant as an insult or anything... just a suggestion with using the Wiki. — RabiesTurtle 14:26, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe Gaile removed the text from that page as the question was placed on this page, two sections above. See "GW:EN Prerelease Bonus Pack". In addition, it was Gaile who moved it to that page in the first place. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 14:51, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The question was different than the previous ones in that it wasn't talking about the missions, but rather if there would be special items given through a pre-release that could be purchased. Either way, we typically don't delete comments.  Also, yes it was moved, but it isn't in the original location either.  Remember, I am not shunning anyone, just making the suggestion. — RabiesTurtle 15:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. A simple "see blah" would be preferable. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 16:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I was simply saying that in the case of the page you pointed out, it looked as if Gaile had mistakenly copied it there from another page, then taken it out when she realized the mistake. If the original location doesn't have a move-template, then yes, there should probably one there, but I was simply pointing out your example didn't really fit what you were saying. -- [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 16:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Following up, I checked the history of Talk:Gaile News (which is where the content that was added to your example page lists itself as coming from) - Santax never posted there. Thus, it supports my thinking that Gaile literally just clicked a Paste button by mistake and added more than she intended to when moving a different section (the one above) onto your example page - essentially, I think you're suggesting something that's not relevant in this case, because it's not even an issue of moving a user's comments without redirect - they weren't moved in the first place, just mistakenly copied. In this case, it is appropriate to simply remove them, because a) the user didn't place them there, and b) they were copied there by mistake, and c) they're not relevant there, and d) they exist in their proper and intended place elsewhere. -- [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 16:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am so sorry if I made an error. I get concerned when I see the oversize notation and like to act quickly. I believe that Aiiane's analysis is correct: I made an error in pasting as I moved content to the proper page. I then deleted the second, duplicate paste. My personal process is that I move first, save, go to the former page and add the redirect, then return to the new location and add the "moved from" notation. This is a triple-check system so that I don't delete by accident. But that creates a lot of "save chatter" and lately I've been trying to move to different pages (in new windows) and save all at once. I will likely return to saving every step of the way to assure more fail-safes.
 * I know and respect GWW protocols; I don't think anyone has as many pages of personal/talk page archives nor spends as much time trying to keep her small corner of the GWW neat and tidy. [| Proof :)] I believe that the case you point out involved erroneously duplicated content. If not, I apologize, and encourage you to retrieve and replace the content, as I am not able to locate it. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: I'm very bemused by the fact that we used the word "Bonus" twice this summer: Once for the Bonus Mission Pack and once for the Prerelease Bonus Pack. I am definitely going to share that word-choice concern in the future! In relation to this discussion, I saw "Bonus" and thought it was "Bonus Mission Pack" then realized it was not and moved it back, awaiting the creation of a Prerelease Bonus Pack" page which I simply do not have time to create at the present time. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:11, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries Gaile. I had just noticed some other instances where I couldn't find some of the information when you had archived things and since I am a wiki novice myself who can't always find things, I just figured they were accidentally deleted.  The funny thing, in this particular case I found where the information was taken before you copied it over.... look two topics up :-D  Anyway, I definitely didn't mean any insult by my comments as I feel you are doing a dang good job on this wiki and have complimented you before on it.  It is nice to have a bit more communication with what is going on with the future of Guild Wars and you are doing just that.  Keep it up.  — RabiesTurtle 03:14, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the kind thoughts, RabiesTurtle. I will archive this now, as I think we're all up to date and in the clear about the deletion question. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 19:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: How do I... ?
You're welcome. And I've got no idea how those sales at that shop look like. :) (P.S. Your archiving skillz are at infuse-speed! ;) -- (CoRrRan / talk) 07:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm getting better, anyway. It's one of those "needs/must" situations. :) --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 00:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Archiving & Moving Content
I'd like to ask that content not be moved or archived off this page except in extreme cases such as vandalism. Wikifying a post, updating a signature, fixing a typo, furnishing a link -- all those things are great. Reverting vandalism is an essential help. But I read everything that is placed on my personal page, even if I do ultimately end up moving or archiving it. It takes me more time to go searching for the content to discover where (and hopefully why) someone else moved it than it takes me to move it myself, so I'd rather take care of such matters myself. Because believe me, when someone moves something off my page, I'm going to go looking for it. :)

If you're at all concerned about this request, we can discuss here. Otherwise, thank you for understanding and honouring my request. --Gaile 04:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I wanted to just repeat praise I've given you before Gaile, you're a very good community relations manager. I'm sure I speak for everyone (or most, at least) who plays Guild Wars in saying thank you for taking time to address all of our many issues, even when you can't release the information we are asking for.  In my opinion, it leads to a much tighter knit community which, I think, will help keep people involved in the future of Guild Wars which is definitely a good thing both for the community and for the game itself.  So thanks for being so awesome! Kami No Kei 17:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think she has several split personalities, all positive ones ofcourse and that's how she manages to read so many fansites and comments and the other other relationship manager chores she has.. ^^ don't wanna know how much time a day she spends on GW-stuff.. Truly awesome! cheers --[[Image:User_Tribina_Mulogo.jpg]] (Tribina / talk) 17:50, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * i understand your reasons here gaile. however you have to see that your talk pages is among the most visited and actives ones so in time you will have meters of text here and its gonna get rather messy without the luxury of archiving. however if you by the post mean that you would like to be in charge of the archiving yourself then im right behind you :) -ArcticWind [[Image:User_ArcticWind_Sig.png|User:ArcticWind]] 20:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that's what she meant. After all, the archival box at the top of the page says she certainly doesn't plan to keep it all unarchived. ;) [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm an archiving fool, really. I don't do it every day, but when I get going, I'm tossing paragraphs here, sprinkling sentences there, posting redirects like a maniac. :)
 * Oh, and thanks so much, Kami No Kei and Tribina, for your kind words. It's very nice of you to say such things. *beams* --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 20:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indentation) Could you guys answer a question for me? Should I be archiving the redirects? For instance, when someone writes about bots and I move the content to the bot page, I generally keep the redirect for a week or so. But after that, do I need to place that redirect into the monthly archives of my talk pages? I am not sure if I should, but I'm happy to do so if that's the best thing to do. --Gaile 21:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In general, if it's on the page, it should be archived (notice that Help:Ask a wiki question just uses a separate archive page for any moved/offtopic items - you seem to have one as well). The point of archiving is to allow someone to trace a conversation, if, for instance, someone on a talk page linked to your talk page and said "see the discussion here", but that conversation had been moved, they'd want to be able to look and find where it had been moved to, even if the conversation were old. [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 23:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Shucks. :( I was hoping I could leave the redirect in place for a minimum of two weeks or even a month and then delete it, saving my archives from becoming a redirect-a-thon. However, I understand your point, and thanks for the feedback. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 03:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Slight change
I changed the external link to the "sweet tooth" page to an internal link. Ifer 08:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? --Santax (talk · contribs) 15:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks nicer? :) -- Lemming64 15:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I read that as he changed it to an external link. --Santax (talk · contribs) 15:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Mailing List
I think I ought to bring to your attention this discussion. Relatedly, are there plans to keeping the mailing list membership updated? The GWW:RFA policy has been accepted for a while, the results so far:

New sysops:
 * User:Ab.er.rant
 * User:Aiiane
 * User:Anja Astor
 * User:BeXoR
 * User:Lemming64
 * User:MisterPepe
 * User:Xeeron

No longer sysops:
 * User:Gem

Will these users be added/removed to the list or nay? --Dirigible 16:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Before deciding, please give a few days for the above mentioned discussion to evolve. It would be awkward to put new sysops onto the list if the result of that discussion would turn out to be that wiki members prefer to have only bureaucrats on there. No harm done in waiting for the results of the discussion. --Xeeron 22:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * First, yes, of course we need to refresh the mailing list. And secondly, would you mind if I make the purpose more clear? The mailing list is intended mostly as an emergency contact list from GWW staff to us. If something goes off kilter in the GWW, we want to know about it, but we may miss a post on a page concerning the off-kilter-ness. Having the mailing list enables the SysOps and Bureaucrats to contact us right away. It's each SysOp's or Bureaucrat's choice as to whether he/she joins the list, and no problem either way. I've pinged all newly-elected members of the group, and the call it truly theirs. Thanks. --Gaile [[Image:User gaile_2.png| ]] 03:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)