Talk:Crippling Victory

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

 * Crippling Victory: 5..20 damage -> 5..10 damage please put feedback on new skill numbers here. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * what possible reason would there be to run this over crippling sweep? Id much prefer a spammable short duration cripple than a longer recharge longer duration cripple. Theres a reason why hamstring sees no high level play. And reducing the damage only makes it worse. Increase the damage if anything, turn it into a medium dmg spike skill that snares the target. 87.194.81.41 00:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

5..10 dmg is very weak. Make it 10 Energy, and increase the dmg back up to 5...20 (69.228.39.157 00:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC))
 * Rather just keep it as it was. Miss Velvetine 01:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill was underpowered before imo, now it's downright bad. It's a CONDITIONAL cripple, with a condition that's not actually so reliable (well, not so bad for Melandru Dervishes, but HOPEFULLY someday we'll see other types), and it has a recharge that is twice as long as a much more reliable Cripple skill like Crippling Sweep. The +damage now is absolutely meaningless too, so i don't see why you'd ever want this over Crippling Sweep, unless you absolutely have no enchant. And then you might as well use an enchant that Cripples like Aura of Thorns. Keep the damage like that if you want, but cut the recharge to 6-8s. Then it might be an alternative to Crippling Sweep. Atm it just isn't. Patccmoi 02:01, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Crippling Sweep was kludgy enough. Few Dervish enchantments are even worth considering in serious play.  I think this was overnerfed, especially with Signet of Pious Restraint coming into play. ~Seef II &lt;☎&gt; 03:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Really? Heart of Fury, Attacker's Insight, Vital Boon, Mystic Regeneration, Vow of Strength, Onslaught, Harrier's Grasp, Faithful Intervention, Watchful Intervention, Featherfoot Grace, Grenth's Grasp... No? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't have to be a Dervish enchant you know. Aegis, Balt's Aura, JI... they all count. As for Dervishes, they at least have Ebon Dust Aura (nearly all EDA builds had Crippling Sweep, was seen more in TA though), Featherfoot Grace and Heart of Fury. Zealous Vow was seen some too. And now they'll have Grenth's Aura too. Patccmoi 07:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to agree, the skill has a condition that you have less control over than with Crippling Sweep (except for a Melandru dervish of course) and double the recharge, so the only thing that could make you want to run it is the +damage which at best is now +10. I think it was fine the way it was before. I'm not sure about lowering the recharge to 6 seconds, with the new Pious Fury we might see more dervish that don't rely on enchantments at all so it could see play there. --Draikin 19:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This skill cant really ever be balanced IMO. By "having more health" you effectively say "are in meleandru's form". So who are we balancing this for? Dervishes? Or mels form dervishes? Because if it's balanced for all dervishes (increased +dmg to offset the condition), mels dervs are going to run around owning stuff. If you balance it for mel dervs (assume condition is pretty much always met, thus no +dmg), only mels dervs will ever use it. This sort of problem arose with Wearying Strike. Its the only legitimate INDEPENDENT spiking skill in the scythe mastery line (one elite only does deep wound if <50%, other doesn't add +dmg) and works only in Mels Form. As such, what is the only real dervish seeing play? IMO, the self inflicted conditions and greater life conditions just make balancing near impossible since you need to deal with reg dervishes, and then mels dervishes. So what you've done with changing the numbers is balanced it for mels dervs, which IMO is better than the way it was before. But no way this will see play on anything but a mels derv at this point. Then again, do non mels dervs see play in GvG? Oni Firestarter 21:49, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Who was complaining about the damage?
 * This skill is very underpowered, the recharge is high, the damage is low, and with condition removal at an easier level with the likes of mending touch, this skill is not worth a slot in my bar.--Atlas Oranos 19:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the reason of the downtuning was BECAUSE of MelDerv's. They have enough power as they are, and this wouldn't make them any more fun to play agianst.

I don't GvG nearly often enough to consider myself an expect on the subject, but even I can see that this skill is completely worthless in its current form for all PvE and almost if not all forms of PvP. Crippling Sweep has a longer duration crippled even with only 2 enchantments, can be used in serious PvP on a non-Melandru Dervish, recharges twice as fast, and most importantly, has an easily controlled condition. As has been stated, this skill will only be even remotely useful on AoD dervishes, and even then, I can't see any of them actually taking this. Personally, I think that AoD should be nerfed again so that it doesn't give bonus health (in exchange for a somewhat more reasonable energy cost), but that's not the point of discussion. This skill has:
 * an exceedingly long recharge;
 * an extraordinarily low bonus damage for any attacking weapon (low enough for it to be almost ignored in skill analyzation);
 * a difficult-to-meet requirement both in "upper level" PvE and serious PvP;
 * an effect that can be done more easily (such as through cripslash warriors) with other characters that is also completely worthless in PvE.

I've basically just recapped everything everyone else said, but hopefully it will bring this skill some much-needed love. --Jette 22:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Love reading this with the current R/D's. The irony. BlazeRick 15:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this skill is simply designed for non-enchantment based scythe users to get some much needed crippling. It's nice to have the option there.--Ckal Ktak 20:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Original skill feedback
Need to make this a scythe attack, so it can't be used with other weapons. Otherwise, this is just so much better than Hamstring, even with zero scythe mastery 203.217.0.53 01:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a scythe attack. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I kinda have to agree there, the condition is too easily meet anyways, and comparing it to hamstring, it cost less energy hamstring :5E   Crippling Victory : 10E it recharges faster Hamstring : 12R   Crippling Victory : 15R and it does extra damage which hamstring doesn't even with no points its great , but you most likely will have left over points to put in it anyways. Durga Dido 23:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

None of the new skills have been assigned to specific weapons yet. I think we can rest assured that this will become a scythe skill, just as much so as we can count on people not being able to use volley with a hammer. --67.165.22.236 15:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

But Volley specifically says : Shoot arrows at up to 3 foes adjacent to your target. Durga Dido 20:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's just cause it's a bow and many bow skills include 'arrows' in their description, while you don't see Eviscerate say 'Disbowel target foe with an Axe', it just says 'hit'. This will very likely become a Scythe Attack. I think it's not bad, but the recharge seems quite long. You have Crippling Sweep that cripples for similar or longer duration with 5/6 and the conditional is MUCH more reliable to meet. Sure this adds some +damage, but enough to warrant a double recharge if you plan to cripple your foes when you're not even sure the attack will do it? Not really. Should likely go down to 5/6 too or MAX 5/8. Patccmoi 14:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)