Talk:Game updates/20071108

Main page error?
Mind if i ask what error? Main page looks fine at this side of the sea...--Fighterdoken 22:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ancestors' Rage: this Skill is no longer considered an Enchantment.
 * Don't you dare! &mdash; Skuld 22:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I chuckled, reminds me of what my mom would say when I got that look in my eyes when I was younger. But I see where you're coming from and agree fully. --97.100.141.74 22:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no clue what he was thinking. Ah, well, back to rit spikeing. Lord Belar 23:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You miss understand this change, it works just like it worked as an enchantment, it's just not a Skill so it can't be increased with enchantment increasing effects. it still puts a 1s buff on someone and at the end of that 1s it does the damage. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, no dervish enchantment manipulation. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 23:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry. I thought it was reverted back to pre-enchantment functionality. :/ Lord Belar 23:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Conjure Nightmare: Now cost 15 energy.
 * there goes my 48 energy when i use it with auspicious incantation.--Cursed Angel 22:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * deep freeze &mdash; Skuld 22:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Xue Fang --Cursed Angel 22:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Draco, izzy himself wrote down the update here, however he deleted it. --Cursed Angel 23:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeh it's been reposted now as it was caught and put on guru so the cat was out of the bag so to speak. So everything is sorted now. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 23:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The metagame asploded. 76.64.195.248 05:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Izzy Noob
Emily is out so I posted these today and I hit Save instead of preview (there is a reason I'm not in charge of posting updates) : P

Eitherway sense everyone saw it I just posted it, there will be a build today, the ETA is not announced but it will happen soon. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * lol. I got was patrolling and saw it. I was able to make that thread on guru in no time :) Im liking the update btw

also on your user page where it says "though of Too" do u mean thought instead of though.--Smithyben 23:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * *too much English brain melting!!!* ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:14, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe. Well, thanks for explanation anyway ;) - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 23:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Won't Emily be happy when she gets back. --Smithyben 23:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Healer's Boon and Paragons
omg.. Izzy please tell me this update to healers boon is a joke. Do you have any idea how much stronger this is going to make HB and healing prayers as a whole? It's obvious you're pushing healing prayers real hard, but my god man, do we really need to make HB any more über? And as for para's, why no buffs? :( Paragon is one of my favorite classes yet the keep gettinged nerfed. What's the logic behind this?
 * They're fucking overpowered genius. &mdash; Skuld 23:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The idea is push more directed healing instead of Party healing as it promotes less passive defense as you need to take damage in order for your healing to have any effect where party wide heals just clean up small amounts of damage, well see it's a pretty radical change. As for Paragons, they are a really strong class in allmost all 8v8 formats, so they are pretty low on the list of classes to be buffed. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:16, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I love the idea of making healing about more than just LoD and infuse. Hopefully we'll get some *real* healing monks back. And OMG all those PvE healers who never evolved their bar further than orison and breeze are vindicated. Now if mending gets a boost as well, we will have no way of telling the good from the bad anymore ;-) --Xeeron 23:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is silly, making red bars go up with a heal monk takes no skill.

Unfortunately you didn't nerf any passive defense so now teams will just run a bunch of party wide healing and passive defense.
 * You mean people will actually use motivation paragons for their party wide heal? This is Madness! --Ckal Ktak 00:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * this isnt madness, THIS IS SPAAARTAAAAA!!!!!!!!, no it isnt fun anymore, it never was but i couldnt help it --Cursed Angel 00:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I found it hilarious. And Izzy, with you pushing so much for active heals and defense, isn't that just promoting more spikes? Then we will have to nerf all spells that do more than 70 damage. LoD was overpowered without a doubt, but wow? I think it fell out of the nerf tree and got hit with every branch on the way down. --Deathwing 03:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Er no actually, by nerfing party wide heals, Izzy is effectively promoting pressure. Spirit bond, protecctive spirit, infuse health etc are still all there for your spike stopping needs. --09:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well there's still party wide heals, they're just more fragile or worse so you need to run more defense and dedicate 1-2 characters to it. Since he didn't nerf probably the most overpowered part of the game - dedicated split, a balanced build somehow has to find a way to put party healing in and then deal with split. The best way to do this will likely be 3 monks. People might use motivation paragons for their party wide heal, although that's probably not a good thing.

splinter weapon
Nerfsticked to uselessness. thanks. at least the ele's diddnt get the usuail 3-month-in-hospital beating. -TehBuG 01:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)-
 * I hope this is one of the reverts, NPC's at VoD have always been victims of AoE. Ever since the first glyph sac + ms Obie Quiet 02:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how you can think Splinter Weapon is useless now. It still allows a Ranger to potentially deal 492 (41*4*3) armor-ignoring damage every 5 seconds for ~8 energy.  Maximum efficiency (with an enemy blob of 4) means that each enemy takes 123 damage through all armor!  Just because it doesn't lay waste to mobs of 7+ now doesn't mean it's useless.  I'm just glad that it didn't get over-reduced.  It's still one of the best damage-increasing skills for Barrage.  -=-Beta Sprite 15:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The splinter weapon change is effectively only less OP in PvE areas where you can horde 6-10 monsters at a time and kill them in a matter of seconds. Now it takes...a few more seconds to kill them. Holymasamune 21:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Feeback here?
Should feeback be posted here, on Izzy's page, or under the skills? I would like to ask if Oppressive Gaze got nerfed because of the Jotuns making so good use of it, I do not think it was necessary and is now weaker than it was already. Healing Breeze looks like a nice try, but buffing restful breeze was not really necessary, it is already more useful in its nice than even the buffed HB. --Longasc 23:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You can post on both. I'd suggest posting feedback about the update in general (like the buff to healing) here, while posting about individual skills on Izzy's page (if you think they are now under/overpowered). --Xeeron 23:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * My page would be preferable ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Izzy's words > Xeer's words, lol. At least if you want him to listen ;-) --Xeeron 23:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Is the Change to opressive gaze to replace the condition needing weakness to <50% or to include it as well? --Ckal Ktak 00:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

GW: For Kids Only?
First impression: if you want only kids in pvp, so they can play sway only and name their pet C H U K N R R S, just say so :) --213.140.6.120 01:35, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

its 12+ --Cursed Angel 01:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I LOL'd irl. Readem 01:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Healing and Ritualists
The fact that Word of Healing can now target the caster, heals for even more and recharges faster is crack. Taking a very powerful skill that borders being overpowered and suddenly making it total overkill. No monk bar will be able to outheal Word of Healing + Holy Haste. That's all you need to be the best.

Amd the destruction of splinter weapon was not needed. The skill was balanced as it is, bordering with the conjures. It's now a waste of a skill slot. And ancestors' rage being a skill as apposed to an enchantment was again not needed. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Toroxus.
 * Ancestor's + Dervish = free energy for the Dervish and that nice AoE damage. But like you said, it's not really a big deal.  The WoH buff was to make it competitive with ZB, I believe; either you have better e-management with ZB or less vulnerability to interrupt and more healing with WoH. As for the Magebane Shot "buff"... I hope that was just a typo and it is disabled for an -additional- 5 seconds (which is still really minor).  The unblockable part is nice, but the skill's still a little iffy. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas sigimg.jpg|onoes!]]  Mafaraxas  02:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * But using energy on any other healing skill besides WoH is pointless. It's all you need now, and using anything else is being less efficient. Using any other skill or even elite skill for healing is pointless compared to word of healing. If it keeps it's current abilities, it's cost should be increased to 10 or 15, or it's recharge increased to a similiar amount of seconds. It's overkill in it's current state. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Toroxus.
 * They are just trying to make the heal monk more popular... which is kinda funny. Maybe the LoD monks will switch LoD out for WoH :P Dancing Gnome 02:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * WoH has become buff'ed to an extent of which PvE gameplay has become too easy for Monks. I hope this skill will be reverted to the state previous to this update. (On a side note, Toroxus, please sign your comments.) -- ► AshleyS   (talk•contribs) 02:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you'll finally be able to target yourself with WoH, that's been a long time coming...Hyper Cutter 02:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If WoH heals for too much, then that's something they can fix. But the ability to heal yourself with the skill was a long time coming, I'm with Hyper Cutter on that one. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  04:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Funny, just when I was going to put healer's boon on my healmonk heroes, you're all saying this. --Ckal Ktak 09:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * To comment on the Ancestors' + Derv thing, what should have been done, is make Ancestors' 10e. A 100+ damage, quarter second cast, AoE spell for 5e? Hmmmkay.  [[Image:User_Riven_sigicon.png]]    10:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree 100%, its only 5 energy by mistake. &mdash; Skuld 11:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Whilst woh is overpowered everything else you said was wrong, sorry :(


 * I understand the buff for healing monks, and most of them are ok. But the buff on WoH was just overkill, it's made it the obvious choice for every healing monk and the use of the other elites becomes more situationally specific. --Toroxus 13:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I gasped when I saw the Healing prayers buff, it's crzy! xD  Panthor-who-is-2-lazy-to-signin 82.221.2.93 16:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you all misunderstand what these changes are for. They're not buffing Healing Prayers in general, they are just making builds other than LoD/infuse desirable. The idea being you might actually have to ping your build instead of saying "healing monk". -- Ari [[Image:User_Ari_sig.jpg]]  (talk) 18:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Yay for Paragons!
OMW, we didn't get nerfed again! Yay for Izzy! Yay for Paragons. Pity most everyone else got buffed though. I really miss knowing what that feels like anymore... --Shaia 07:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed, a skill update that didn't include a para skill, that's probably a first. Ritualists on the other hand... A Concerned Citizen 07:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yay, let's cheer for not balancing an overpowered class! That's more laziness than actual balance tbh. Cracked Armor on AR was not enough. - Auron 12:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it should give weakness to the user as well. /endsarcasm Sirocco 12:22, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Nerf AR for PVP all you want. Everyone's lvl20 there. Losing 20 armor against a lvl30 foe in HM is another issue though. Look at the other side of the coin please. --Shaia 13:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Lmao, you still have 86AL (80+10+16-20), which is more than any other class except for war+sentinel's, with WY you have 100+, and you're not a frontline character. Please, stop crying already.  [[Image:User_Riven_sigicon.png]]    17:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And in Hard Mode you have things that make you actually invincible, i.e., TNTF and SY. - Auron 21:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoever made this section is retarded and doesn't understand balance. Paragons are overpowered as is. We don't need this game being more retarded than it is by making paragons do more damage than warriors and have better protection/healing than monks. Holymasamune 21:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * And we don't need to go around and call people retarded for having a differing opinion. Please refrain from making such remarks, it's just unnecessary. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 21:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a difference between having a different opinion and being wrong. Paragons are overpowered; that isn't my personal opinion, it's fact. Look at their skills. They have near-warrior DPS, a neverending IAS, enough energy to pack on great attack skills/utility on their bar, and a metric buttload of armor. And in PvE, they get true invincibility. If you refuse to use the skills that make imbagons godly, good on ya; but don't turn around and try to say that they're junk. - Auron 23:06, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I never mentioned anything about them being imbalanced or not, Auron. Calling someone a retard is still not needed. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 23:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually HM was always much more balanced than PVP ever was; there are enough competent AI neccies in HM to shutdown an 8 man Paragon party without a problem, not to mention mesmers. Another thing, who says paragons aren't supposed to be frontline? I see enough mid-line and back-line classes playing in the front line. Oh wait, you mean to say that paragons only should not be in the front line. Wow, para-hate is such a strong thing here. We all know it's over-powered in certain areas like mainly PVP. But who cares about actaully fixing the problem properly, no-one really cares anyway. --Shaia 13:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Funny thing is that even though everyone says the paragon is overpowered, practically no one wants one in their party! How many times I've been rejected from joining a party for elite missions or Slaver's because I'm a paragon? Tons and because of this, I've never done Slaver's Exile before; not even once! In the minds of PVP players, the paragon is overpowered yet in the minds of most PVE players, it's a useless class. kaheiyeh 22:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats because everyone is stupid, except me. &mdash; Skuld 23:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is useful information. It provides interesting supporting evidence for the stereotype that PvE players are generally bad at the game. --Edru viransu 00:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Hunters Ale
I cant believe they fixed the hunters exploit in regent valley in pre-searing. Thats outrageous! Peoplle used it so they wouldnt waste money, i guess. But then again, you have to be really dedicated to that title now if you want to get ales. Hope the prices for the dont increase--Raph 16:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Outrageous cause they fixed an exploit? Might as well leave every exploit we find then! kaheiyeh 02:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So now you have to legitimately go and kill a wild Bear, instead of letting your own pet die..? I hadn't heard about this exploit, but like any other exploit, I'm glad it was fixed. -=-Beta Sprite 21:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

READ ME IZZY
I think this was one of the best updates... a whole new line of previouly unused skills are now being used again (eg. heal party) Good to see things changed up... mebbe recall still needs a bit more nerfing tho 24.141.45.72 19:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * OOO and why did you kill my ancestors rage??? I want it as enchant so I can spike! hmph. 24.141.45.72 21:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Are people still even using Recall? Aside from Assassins using it for hit/run tactics (like it's meant to do)... I would think the big problem is Monks using it to avoid fighters cheaply, and the new feature of having a Monk's skills disabled for ten seconds generally means somebody's gonna die. Is there some other use Recall still has that's particularly imbalanced, or are Monks somehow finding a way around the downside?
 * And Rage was killed because it was being used for more then just spiking; Dervishes could use it as a battery too, and that's not fun for many other people. You can still shadowstep before this version goes off, you might need to use Shadow Walk as the 'step, though. (the Stance status can be fired off quicker then the other shadowsteps.) --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  21:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Naw, he's pissed off because his ancestor's rage + ride the lightning build no longer works.. lol &mdash; Skuld 21:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Simply work around it. :P Looks like your stuck with those old Destruction + Swap + Rage + Rupture Soul combos now. Requires a lot of setup, and kills too easily when it works... Totally lame! --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  01:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

lets give each class 1 skill, and let them fight for their lives, like the first time i fought in beta and forgot to pack skills, i was an uber wand only necro!!!71.61.163.146 03:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)