Talk:Defender of Ascalon

Level 5 foes
I reject the statement that characters have to wait until level 7 to take on level 5 foes. You can take on the Rogue Bull at level 1. You can also take on the River Drake at level 1. In both cases, just pull the monster with a ranged weapon and let your imp do the hard work.

You can also take on the two level 5 Melandru's Stalkers in Regent Valley; they're great because they won't attack unless you attack them and there is a source of healing right by them in case you mess things up. The best way for low-level characters to reach them is via the bridge from Lake County. Just follow the path full of 1st level Devourers to the end and you'll find the cats. Avoid the Grawl nearby and pull the cats with a ranged weapon and let your imp do the heavy lifting. You can level up nicely by doing the run several times. If you are extra careful, you can even take on the two third-level Bandit Blood Sworns that lurk behind the bushes at the top of the slope to the left of the path; again, let your imp do the work for you.

At level 3 to 5, you can also take on the Oakheart in Regent Valley; he's very easy to kill as he rarely fights back, but it can be a bit dangerous actually reaching him with all the spiders in the area. --La Visiteuse 11:18, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Not everyone has an Imp, you know... But yeah, if you do, that is a possibility.--Fighterdoken 16:28, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that not everyone has the imp, but I have seen many people who bought the bonus pack or upgrade who don't use the imp because they don't understand its importance or how tough it is, so that's why I added the note. And of course, it is dead easy to get it by buying the upgrade, and well worth it for the way it makes levelling up faster. --La Visiteuse 23:36, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The issue is that you get more exp just by killing low-level creatures when you are low-level yourself. Yes, the bull gives more exp per kill.  But, honestly, it's faster to kill a bunch of weak level 2 skales.  Regardless, this advice is just advice.  Take it or ignore it. I started solo Charr hunting at level 7; who cares? --76.22.247.48 09:44, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that you should kill the bull instead of skale; I said that you could kill the bull, etc at level 1 if you use an imp. Kill the skale, the grawl, the worms, etc, at level 1, but also kill the bull, the river drake, etc, to go up even faster.  What's so hard about that?  Oh, and the problem with solo Charr hunting is getting someone to open the gate for you: if you have to pay, it all adds up after a while. --La Visiteuse 09:12, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, you also have to think on efficiency. The higher level critters aren't exactly close one to the other, and you will probably get more experience points per minute if you just keep rezoning out of Ashford Abbey.
 * A better option if you have the imp (and even if you don't) is to just keep repeating Charr at the Gate like it was mentioned somewhere. That way you can kill 5 level 5 critters in a single trip to a single part of the map, instead of killing 3 critters that are all over it.--Fighterdoken 15:32, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Except you can't do that at level 1 because it is a minimum-level-2 quest... Cynique 07:03, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think reaching level 2 has ever been a problem, unless you want to start nitpicking about you wanting to level exclusively using your imp for killing level 5 critters, which while possible is still too inefficient to be considered. Then again, it's the LDoA title we are talking about, so meh...--Fighterdoken 15:38, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You're missing my point. The Defender of Ascalon page says: 'At level 7 or so, your character can now take on level 5 foes.'  What I said was that you didn't have to wait until level 7 to take on some of the level 5 foes if you use the fire imp.  Actually, if you want the truth, you don't even have to wait that long even if you don't use the imp.  Now, if it is ineffecient for low-level characters to go around killing things that include level 5 foes, then the main page needs to be changed.  There is nothing wrong with that technique in my opinion, it is just the timing for when certain foes can be taken on.  If, however, you think the 'General Steps' section should be changed to 'get up to level 2 then repeatedly take and abandon the Charr at the Gate quest until you reach level 11', then let's discuss it. --La Visiteuse 13:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, the guide is written poorly in how it basically orders the players around. I'll try going through it to sort that out. --76.22.247.48 01:42, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha level 7. With that math it would take a while to be able to handle the charr bosses. My level 3 was clearing the northern wall area solo, impy didn't exist back then. Aro [[Image:User_Aro_Signature_Logo.gif]] 05:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Compatibility w/Survivor now?
After watching this, it seemed like it might be possible to get both now. At 15:43 the discussion of Pre starts and John mentions Historian Kimmes being there to transfer LDOA and Survivor titles to the HoM. He doesn't say the titles are compatible outright, but if you can get survivor with the quests, level 20 comes with it. Sardaukar  13:52, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That's pretty much the idea; death leveling is going to be rendered unnecessary, so if you want to avoid death then you can. It also seems that survivor will no longer be dependent upon permanently evading death, but instead the amount of experience you've gained since your last death. So really, in two ways you're correct that the two will be compatible. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 14:34, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Is that related to the recent change to the output of the /deaths command? Cynique 15:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. The new /deaths command makes it convenient to see how close to survivor you are, without having to hunt for the title bar in your hero panel or do maths every time you look at your xp bar. --Wormwood 03:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * According to my math. Max survivor in pre with just the new quests, would take close to 3.6 years. More if you mess up lol72.47.172.243 18:09, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

and now you can get both, thanks Langmar :D 92.16.226.165 08:05, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Say you start a new character in pre. Couldn't you just get both providing you don't die during pre? Using all the farming and daily quests available? 24.96.104.16 17:57, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is possible, however, it will take a very long time. At level 20, you will not get many experience points from killing foes in the daily quests. At level 20, you have 140,600xp total, and only get 16xp per kill from level 15 enemies.  To get legendary survivor, you'll need 1,337,500xp. That's over 1,000 days of taking the 1000xp reward, or about 74,000 kills of level 15 enemies. At that rate, average kill time in the "rescue farmer hamnet" quest, zoning out and killing 2 raiders for at total of 32xp per run (per minute), it would take roughly 1,233 hours 20 minutes, just over 51 days if playing non-stop 24/7.  It's doable, but why would you want to go through that? Prestige? It's like having a title that says "I can fit more pine cones up my ass than you." By the time any reasonable person could accomplish both titles in pre-searing, GW2 will be out and no one will know or care about that person's insane level of dedication. That said, I'm sure there will be 2,000 people who actually get it, along with a published guide and YouTube series. 173.85.165.166 16:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Historical

 * Alot of stuff are being deleted; should we tag/move things that are no longer relevant but are worth archiving? --Falconeye 07:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Deathleveling not that obsolete...
People may want to note that while yes, the new daily quests make this title way more accesible that previously was, it will still take you 47.600exp to reach level 20 from level 16. That is 47 days (35 if you leave the generic quests for 16-19) of questing, whereas with deathleveling it could take as little as 15 days with the proper setup.

So for those that want the title faster, just do both :).--Fighterdoken 16:36, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * You can now farm the foes and skip the DL altogether: take quest, kill, abandon quest, repeat. Exactly like farming Charr at the Gate, except without Rurik to do all the fighting. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Are the foes level 16+? Ok, they are at least 14... i guess that is a possibility, but i would rather afk :P--Fighterdoken 20:14, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The foes will be a few levels below yours. I'm getting 48 xp/non-boss. Given the amount of time to setup, it's a lot faster to farm the foes from the quests. On the other hand, if one is really good at DLing charr and don't mind playing while AFK (and risking resets), then DL would be easier. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:22, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I've taken a few of the dailies, and have yet to run across any monster greater than level 8, which still nets me 0 XP as I'm level 14, so I'm starting to doubt the claims.
 * Monster levels are now based on the lowest level player in the group, so if you're bringing a low-level friend, he's cutting into your gains. 71.97.193.159 17:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * My pre-searing W/R was level 16 when the update came, and I got to 20, without any deathleveling, within 25 days; even though I missed a few of the dailies, I would head out and help my brother with a few after having done them myself. The monsters that one takes out on the way are not inconsequential in reducing your "47 days" estimate, either - more than a third of the 45k-odd experience I needed, obviously, came from the mobs, and I didn't spend any time hunting them specifically. --Mercenary 00:57, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Reaching Level 10
I would think the part of getting to lvl 10 would be the hardest part of LDOA now. After reading the guides it still uses the old method of going about gaining XP as it did with death leveling. My thought to a possible different method without extensively going over the wall as getting continually slaughtered by charr at that level is frustrating:

Once reaching lvl 7, instead of focusing on the few lvl 5 creatures, continue killing the bears and blood sworn in Wizards Folly up through lvl 8. My thought there is in bulk you gain XP faster than by hunting the much fewer lvl 5 creatures.

Once reaching a bit past lvl 8, about 28,000 XP, you would turn in the quests that people used to hold to get from lvl 19 to lvl 20 under the death leveling method as it is not really needed to hold that XP in reserve now. This would boost you straight to lvl 10 at 39,600 XP and able to do the Vanguard quests.

After lvl 10 is reached use the methods suggested of dropping and retaking the daily Vanguard quest to speed up XP gain or simply return to town with the final objective incomplete and start it over. 68.91.25.155 07:05, 5 March 2011 (UTC) EdStargazer


 * i just farmed Charr at the Gate until lvl 10 it was very grind tastic but it did the trick.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Use Feedback:Getting started to offer suggestions to developers, or else they won't even see it there. G R E E N E R  15:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Greener I know you have a lot of work on your hands, but may I ask how the heck is this a suggestion to developers? Did you even read a single line? As far as I can see there was no reason to move this, it's just a guide on how to advance quickly through the title in early stages. User ***EAGLEMUT*** Signature.png ***EAGLEMUT***  TALK  10:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no clue as to why I moved this one, Eaglemut. Thanks for calling me on it, and watching over my shoulder! G R E E N E R  15:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

A small error of assessment can happen, but one of this magnitude... well... I not would never have expected from ArenaNet.
Quote: "These quests become available to players once they reach level 10, to avoid confusion among new players about how long they should remain in Pre-Searing. Because these quests occur daily, obtaining the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title is still going to require a major time investment from the player and should not devalue the achievement of those who already have it."

I know that the producers of the videogame rarely play a video game that have produced, let alone go seeking the views of players, but I would point out to those few readers who read these lines this one: in a week there have been more Legendary Defender of Ascalon which not in 7 months before of the update.

This "not devalue the achievement of Those Who Already Have It"? Reader that's your opinion on this?

3 10:14, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, of course there are more LDoAs with this. The reason it does not represent a major time investment is that the additional foes found during the quests yield significant amounts of experience.  They could have done it like they did for Assault on the Stronghold, where the charr that come out to attack the Seige Devourers do not give experience when killed, "to prevent the farming of them".  If the additional VQ foes gave no experience, players would not be able to earn more than 1000 experience per character per day from these quests.  As it is, you stomp round, crush the foes with the help of the fire imp, then rezone to do it again.  It is this aspect that devalues the achievement of the death-levellers.  (my €0,02) Cynique 10:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The effort to obtain LDoA is the same as it was before, but you no longer have to DL to reach it.
 * You still have to farm something for the XP. You could farm just the quests, but that would be very tedious (roughly 18 months of following the 9-quest rotation religiously).
 * If you choose to farm the new spawns, you still have to kill just as many foes as before (perhaps more, since they will be lower level). The difference is that you no longer have to DL to set this up.
 * Before: one spent minutes gathering Charr and pulling them to the shrine; hours were spent AFK letting them kill you.
 * Now: one spends seconds gaining access to farmable foes and hours killing them; all the time spent is online.
 * The reason the number of recent LDoA achievements is high is not because the title is devalued, it's because of all the L19 people who didn't have that far to go...and the L15+ who spent hours farming (instead of hours AFK).


 * So, the title is simpler to obtain, but that doesn't mean it's easy to do so. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, from level 10 to level 20 is 101,000 XP (140,600 - 39,600), so at 1,000 XP per quest, it's just 101 days, not 18 months, to get from level 10 to level 20, and getting to level 10 isn't that hard... Cynique 16:36, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * That doesn't invalidate my point. The amount of XP to LDoA didn't change. The quests only offer 1,000 XP, which is roughly how much a really efficient DLer can get for one session. How much time did the DLer spend killing foes? Hardly any relative to the amount of time spent AFK.


 * Efficient DLing had you create foes approximately at your own level; at L19, VangQ provides foes one level less &rarr; if you are farming foes (rather than quests), you still have to kill 1000+ foes. You just no longer have to spend time setting up the DL and going AFK for half a day. The effort is still substantial; what's changed is how you spend your time.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:57, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I begin to wonder if TEF ever actually did LDoA him/herself. 88.153.105.75 16:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You are in error Tennessee Ernie Ford, the time needed to acquire LDoA is now much smaller than it was previously and is now much more affordable.3 09:55, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that the calendar time spent acquiring the title is less. I agree the title is more affordable (if that means it's more accessible to more people). Those were, of course, two of the reasons for the inclusion of the new quests and new foes. In effect, the enemies are now DL'ed for us, so we don't have to spend time setting up a DL or going AFK.


 * But count how many foes the old-school LDoA had to kill. And count how many you have to kill now if your primary method of acquiring XP is bounty-foe farming. That hasn't changed as much because the amount of XP required to level hasn't changed and because you still need to kill the same number of foes to acquire that XP. (Of course, even a single 1,000 xp bounty reduces this number by 10-60 foes.)


 * So, title is much less tedious. However, for some it's still too much grind especially for those who have no plans to have a perma-pre character. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:42, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The time this new title takes has nothing to to do with perma-pre. Absolutely nothing. 88.153.105.75 17:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

As I said over in the Lieutenant Langmar discussion page: Unfortunately, LDoA is a joke title now. Fastest time (that I know of) to LDoA AND Survivor in Pre with this update was 6 hours and 42 minutes. This was before the latest update though. Still, as it is now, LDoA is achievable in a few days.Wrend 18:24, 17 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Few days? i had spent almost 2 months since begining of this update and i was 16 level since i began with vanguard quests and havent achieved it with my pre char, if for few days you mean months well...and besides the point of a title is not brat: "Hey i let my PC on and i was afk for months so i got this title", the point of a title is that you actually played to do it, and dont tell me exclusive is the point beacuse well at this point of age Guild Wars have, i guess there were thousands LDOA if not more out there before the update so well is no exclusive at all and never was. Ivy Thunder Goddess 09:00 (UTC)

This title is a joke now AND is insulting AND majorly devalues the title. I spent 13 months getting mine and died over 42,000 times. I didn't realize this update occurred and actually death leveled last week for a night after taking off 5 months from the title--which I now had time to finish and would have done in 10-15 days/nights of death leveling. So in reality it took me 8 actual months to get to almost level 18 (lvl 17 and 90% to 18). Once I noticed Langmar I was LDOA in 2 days. I talked to a level 20 in Grenditch Courthouse that did LDOA in 9 days. NINE FREAKING DAYS. Anet's little quirp of "After all, do you really feel like a Legendary Defender of Ascalon after letting the charr kill you endlessly?" makes me want to punch them in the face. Yes OF COURSE you would. You made yourself super powerful at a great sacrifice so in a real stand up fight that counted you would dominate. And you moronic Anet people MADE the freaking title for the very people that you are now insulting. Another asstard move by Anet that punishes original dedicated players and rewards no talent, no dedication, noobs. Let's see if these nine day LDOAs could even make it through the original THK with no heroes. Now Anet could redeem themselves by doing a death check and giving a "Ultimate Sacrifice" title to anyone that had over 20,000 deaths, but they are too moronic to think of that. GuardianofElona 02:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

when to do the remaining quests
The article is stating that you have to wait till lvl 19 to do the "skipped" quest. if my logic is right that isn't needed nor gives any boost in time spent on this title. From lvl 10 to lvl 20 you need 101000 experience. The daily quests give an amount of experience depending on how much you farm the enemy's before. roughly 10000 experience come from doing the quests and the rest comes from the daily's. In my logic it doens't matter in what sequence you do it? Might be missing something, so asking here first before changing the article. Rumian 08:38, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * you are correct hence the clean up and out of date tags on the page... or should still be on the page... but feel free to up date the page as you see fit. remember, Be bold-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree. It still helps to wait to claim quest rewards so you can kill fewer foes at L19. The highest level foe is still limited.


 * I think the best time to claim quest rewards are at the sticking points of Level 13 and Level 16 - At these points most farmable mobs are 5 levels below you and only give you 16 xp each. Getting the quest xp at these points means far fewer mobs you have to kill. Getting from level 8 to level 10 can be done in a few hours relying on 'charr at the gates'. And in comparison, the mobs at level 19 give you 32 xp, twice as much. 184.163.179.236 17:38, 13 March 2011 (UTC)


 * At level 13, if you take a Northlands VQ you'll have a large number of mobs to farm for 16 xp each (plus the 4 bosses). The slowest grind is from 16&rarr;17 because only the VQ mobs give xp, and only 16 each. At that point, it takes 23 runs of Footman Tate (my preferred grind) to get to 17. In comparison, grinding Tate from 19&rarr;20 would only take 12 runs, because mobs are giving 32 xp each. I did all the non-secondary-profession related quests to get to 17 and used all the secondary-related quests to help get to 20.


 * However, the optimal time might be at L8: if you defer claiming the XP until then, you can skip a lot of Charr at the Gate (unless you power level with someone else). You need about 13k to make that jump and there's about 9400 XP that can be put off. Another good time is to jump if from L13&rarr;L14 or L16&rarr;L17, which increases the foe levels and again, allows you to kill fewer foes to reach the next level. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 09:37, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * eh if you are always doing the daily quest it shouldn't matter i think the main goal of people is getting lvl 10.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:39, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Secondary Prof slowing you down?
In one part of the guide, it states that picking a secondary early on will slow you down in the long run. Besides losing the secondary quests, how does this hurt you? Does your exp gain formula change after you've taken on a secondary prof or something?
 * On talk/discussion pages, please sign your comment by typing four tildes ( ~ ). also on topic when you pick a secondary you limit your skills.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 04:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

outdated info
can someone go thew and write a more exact strategy for this since the change i know that there are more then one way to get like not accepting the quests ect.- Zesbeer 10:11, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Tips
(Posting here first so people can discuss what they would like to see)

Since the amount of experience from quests is fixed, but the amount earned from killing foes decreases as your character levels, it makes sense to save some of your quest rewards so that you can claim them strategically.
 * There are a total of 9,650-10,400 experience that you can save:(source)
 * 10,650-11,400 experience points are available from non-Vanguard quests.
 * You have to claim 750-850 XP to learn any skills.
 * You need to claim another 250 XP to claim a secondary (although you can learn some of the skills without doing so, by testing the profession).
 * This isn't enough to go from L8&rarr;L10 without some grinding.



! Goal !! Additional XP !! Key method !! Notes (Other possibilities: Skullreaver and Tomb Nightmare in Catacombs; Melandru's Stalkers Regent Valley) Northlands farming || There aren't enough quest rewards to reach L10. Farming Vanguard Foes ||
 * - style="background:lightgray;"
 * Level 5 || 11,600 || Farming Lakeside County || Key foes: Enraged Bull, River Drake, River Skale Brood
 * Level 5 || 11,600 || Farming Lakeside County || Key foes: Enraged Bull, River Drake, River Skale Brood
 * Levels 6-8 || 15,000 || Charr at the Gate || You can let Prince Rurik do all the fighting
 * Levels 8-9 || 6,200 || Charr at the Gate
 * Levels 8-9 || 6,200 || Charr at the Gate
 * Levels 8-9 || 6,200 || Charr at the Gate
 * Levels 9-10 || 6,800 || Claim quest rewards || This leaves some quest rewards available after you reach L19, to reduce the time spent farming.
 * Levels 10-19 || 88,200 || Lieutenant Langmar's quests
 * Levels 10-19 || 88,200 || Lieutenant Langmar's quests
 * Levels 10-19 || 88,200 || Lieutenant Langmar's quests
 * Level 19-20 || 13,400 || Claim any remaining quests + above ||
 * }
 * }

— Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:54, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Since death leveling has become obsolete I don't think counting your experience is that important anymore. Neither does the sequence in which you have to do quests/farming etc. Although it still makes difference I don't think an a-z guide is needed anymore and would be more confusing then helpfull cause of all the numbers involved. So I decided to give a try at starting (almost) all over instead of trying to change the excisting page. You can find it here: User:Rumian/Defender_Of_Ascalon. Please feel free to comment.Rumian 14:41, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I like your breakdown of the various points at which completing quests to supplement farming XP is most helpful. I was already level 16 when the update came, so my quests went towards the 19-to-20 push as originally planned, but your reasoning seems sound.  I support the idea of a re-write in general. --Mercenary 09:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Charr at the gate
I cant get this quest. Are there any prerequisites? 86.93.72.90 12:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Never mind, got it. 86.93.72.90 12:48, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Farm to Level 10 or level 16?
This page states "You can only reach level 10 through farming". This is incorrect. I have changed the page twice to reflect that you Can farm Charr Bosses up to level 16.

Tennessee Ernie Ford agreed with me but still revered my changes with the response "you *can*, but why would you?"

I redid my changes with a response "Because Charr drop Loot, Vanguard Foes do not". this was in response to Tennessee Ernie Ford comments above. My meaning was that you can farm Charr and get XP and loot or you can do the Vanguard Quests get XP but not get any loot. Either way, this should be a chose for the player to make.

Kokuou revered my changes with the response "This is about XP farming; loot has nothing to do with LDoA". That is true, but some people may want to get loot while they gain XP, others may not. Again, this should be a chose for the player to make.

The point is you CAN farm to level 16 by killing Charr Bosses. I did it, this is a fact. Whether someone would want to or not is irrelevant, it is possible.

The Wiki page should reflect the Facts. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.16.55.191 (talk &bull; contribs) at 07:28, 9 April 2011 (UTC).


 * "This page states "You can only reach level 10 through farming". This is incorrect. I have changed the page twice to reflect that you Can farm Charr Bosses up to level 16."


 * You just agreed that you can only reach L10 through farming; that you can farm in the Northlands doesn't change the fact that you cannot do it through quests alone nor through wandering around.


 * Yes, but through L10, you cannot farm Vanguard foes, so it's immaterial to your point.
 * Yes, but through L10, you cannot farm Vanguard foes, so it's immaterial to your point.


 * The page in fact agrees with that point.
 * The page in fact agrees with that point.


 * The only place where your suggestion adds to the leveling up strategy is in Farming XP after L10, where it didn't include mention of farming Charr bosses to reach L16. You certain can choose to do that, but it will take you much longer to LDoA by doing so than by farming the vanguard foes. If your goal is loot, the bosses are better. If your goal is LDoA, the bosses add only a fraction of the XP you get from completing quests and/or farming the foes.


 * — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 07:51, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


 * "This page states "You can only reach level 10 through farming". This is incorrect. I have changed the page twice to reflect that you Can farm Charr Bosses up to level 16."


 * "You just agreed that you can only reach L10 through farming; that you can farm in the Northlands doesn't change the fact that you cannot do it through quests alone nor through wandering around."


 * I interpreted the sentence "You can only reach level 10 through farming" to mean that the absolute highest level you can obtain through farming, is level 10. Apparently you read it to mean that the only way to reach level 10 (and beyond) is though farming.


 * If the sentence means what I think it means, then the sentence is incorrect.
 * If the sentence means what you think it means, then the sentence is correct.


 * I am a fairly new player and I use the Wiki allot to help me understand the game. When I noticed that the Wiki didn't appear to match with my experience (leveling through 16 using Charr Bosses) I felt I should "Give Back" to the Wiki by updating it with a player verified fact. I hope that adding facts to the Wiki doesn't end up being this difficult the next time I try. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.16.55.191 (talk &bull; contribs) at 08:28, 9 April 2011 (UTC).


 * Ah, this makes more sense to me now. I'll rephrase the objectionable sentence (I think it's unambiguous, but ...it's easy enough to change to something else). You did the right thing making the change you thought best. But so did other people changing it back.


 * You also did the right thing by posting your concerns on the talk page after the reversion. Welcome to the wiki and I am sorry that this first experience was not as fun as you had hoped it would be. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:32, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Recent changes
Some useful advice was removed from the page. In particular, a contributor decided that the efficient time to claim quest rewards was at L19 (despite the discussion on this page). To reiterate the arguments:
 * L19 offers plenty of opportunities to earn XP, both from daily quests and from farming Vanguard foes.
 * In contrast, L8 to L10 is a slog, because you must farm; there aren't enough quest rewards to make that jump. You have to kill a large number of foes (even if you farm in the Northlands).
 * You can jump from L9&rarr;L10 and have some quest XP left over or
 * You can jump when you are a few 1000 XP short of L9.

While the presentation of the advice might/might not be ideal, I think the previous advice was (a) more efficient and (b) more helpful than the most recent edit. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 03:02, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Questing to reach L10
(recently reverted text)
 * 1) "The only way to reach level 10 is through quest rewards and farming (see tips below for XP-rich foes)."
 * 1)  (current text)

I believe that #1 is highly misleading: you can reach L10 by farming alone, but you cannot reach L10 by questing alone.

In pre-Searing, there are only 10,400 experience points available through questing; that's not even enough to reach Level 5. Obviously, you are going to cash in quests to make it easier to reach L10 (and the summary of tips suggests that L8 or L9 is the most efficient time to do so). But to actually reach L10, you must farm.

This third variation is more technically correct than #2 (the current phrasing, also above). But it seems like a lot of extra text to convey the simple idea that you are forced to farm if you want to LDoA. ANet might have eliminated the Death Leveling aspect, but they haven't removed all the grind required for the title; I think the article should reflect that in plain language. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:19, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No, number one is not misleading. It uses the word and. You imply it uses the word or. For example, if it said "through quest rewards or farming," it would be stating that you either reach level 10 by quest rewards OR reach level 10 by farming. Surely you understand the difference. #2 states quite falsely that farming is THE ONLY way to reach level 10, but quest XP is equally valid even if the experience is merely supplemental. 98.227.77.62 17:29, 29 May 2011 (UTC)


 * There is absolutely no way to reach L10 without grinding, which is the reason for highlighting this idea in the first place. I've rephrased the note to unbury that important idea:
 * — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:39, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:39, 29 May 2011 (UTC)