Talk:Alliance battle

Bug?
Sometimes after finishing an AB, when my party get's back to the outpost there is either noone or few other people there. When we leave and come back the map has changed. Has anyone else had this experience or is it just me? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pentinent Crimson (talk &bull; contribs) at 09:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC).


 * Every 3 hours (i think its 3 hours). They change map, etc if the Luxons has the best W/L ratio, they move deeper into the Forest (Kurzick side). And if you're in AB when that happens, when it ends. Your team will end up there with no team. So if you still wanna play with them. You gotta invite them again. Alftagrabben 17:15, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

AB is dead, and we killed it
Don't get me wrong, I am not moaning or cursing for not winning. I want to point out what is happening. I love making builds. I useuly make builds for Rangers. The best part of making a build is going out in PvP, and testing it, seeing it's ups and downs, altering it, and having fun with it. AB is a perfect place: No need to use Res sig and no DP, so you will know if it's actually good before you go to RA or whatnot. It used to be tremendous fun: Seeing all the builds that other people make, talking to the "enemies" and switching suggestions and builds, every other battle finding something that you like... But now, AB is dead. I see the same builds. All the time. All battles. All along. It's just not fun, not to win alongside this builds, to fight this builds or to lose to them (of course), and it's terribly frustrating that you see your build failing from 1 character, it will probably fail at all other players, as they use the same build. And I can give you a hand-full of examples: A/W-Tiger Stance+KD chain, N/A-Toxic Chill+Signet of Toxic Shock, VoR+Empathy+Backfire, SS+Insidious Parasite+Arcane Echo, and the list just goes on and on and on. I know what most will say: "So what? Just don't play AB" or "Stop moaning... this is GW". Well, I won't play AB, it's just plain boring now. And second, I'm not moaning. I'm pointing a fact, and it's not GuildWars, as it used to be so much fun. Titani Ertan 18:15, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Im not gonna judge the examples since there's more than that, but AB is supposed to be a 3 team of 4 people, meaning each team must try to go balance(one heals, other spike, other support, other tank, other snipe,etc.) and you must never ever be alone on the field unless you can solo shrines which there's a lot of builds for that. And unlike other arenas, avoiding battles, flanking, capping shrines and shortcuts (like making a straight line through your own castle to get to the other side instead of making a whole circle) is a must if you ever want to succeeded, especially avoiding battles.
 * Most teams always have a "Decoy" to divert the attention of the foes while other people caps which I often see and it does seem to work(Tankers, Dervish self healers, etc.).
 * What I'm trying to say is this: Make a build keeping in mind capping points and the last thing you want to do, unless your are ahead in capping points, is battle other players until you get ahead. This how most battles are lost. There's a lonely capping point not protected but your alliance are distracted with other players which if you are playing a build that can't cap(healing, supporting,etc.) you are boned.--ShadowFog 18:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, you completely missed the point of his post. That's impressive. --75.71.67.5 18:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * And suggested tanking and sniping to boot. Damn. - Auron 18:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You said some right things Shadow, but I'm not talking about "Tactics". I'm talking about the fact that in 9/12 players of the opposing teams (yes, I sacrificed a few battles and counted. Maybe my bad luck though...) are using Gimmicky Builds. Yes, those builds work, but they're ruining the funnest part of PvP: Facing the unknown. And to be honest, you can use a 55 Invinci-monk in AB, not that we will use it, but you can. You know why? It will in 50% of the chances kill your foes (the more the melee the merrier in some way, but it can kill you in other ways if you face heavy degen or enchant remove etc). And the point of going into low end PvP (RA, AB, TA) is to face the unknown, and challenge your abilities as a player and challenge your build, but instead I just face the same things, all the time. And I won't spend my time creating a counter, because then I won't be able to win, because I can't cap shrines: I can only try and kill the gimmick. And the last thing that I would do is use one of the Gimmick builds, which by my point of view mashing the same buttons and running away if you don't make it (like the Recall monk phenomenon that was in the past: ZOMG a he hit me!!! *mashes recall*). Titani Ertan 18:52, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well besides the misleading remarks and comments of the obvious people in this wiki that we've come to expect time and time, the same builds have been taken because they are proven effective over time and that's what people have liked. If the skills change, the builds will change but that will not happen overnight, just look at the updates, targeted at GvG and not at the core audience. It's not surprising seeing you quit, the waiting period for an AB battle have increase dramatically, making others quit. What you could have waited for just one game, you could have entered a room in any other online game. Until an update buff the useless motherload of skills we have, expect the same gimmick, just like other formats.--ShadowFog 20:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is that all skills of the same type are not equal. For example Searing Flames versus Mind Burn. They're both elite and in the same attribute, but one is as powerful as 3 elites cmbined and the other is about 1/4 as powerful as a non-elite. Poison Arrow vs Burning Arrow-one is outclassed by a non-elite in the same attribute and the other is practically required with all of the nerfs.

Self heals get buffed, but apparently rangers, necros, and paragons don't exist (see March 5, 2009 update).
 * Ok.... ShadowFog, again you say things that are right, but they are not my point. Yes, the gimmick builds work. But It's very very expected to find some daring people like me that open their Priest of Balthazar agent in GH and wander around in the skill section, trying to find connections, or cruising around your skill list and throwing skills that look nice. I expected the gimmicks to hit hard in places like RA, TA and even GvG in times, but AB? It seems like the world have overturned. In RA and TA which I do a lot of times, I see people with actual brain and guts that create their own things. I also exchange builds and comments with people there. Since AB is so wide (24 people in 1 arena), you are facing the ultimate unknown actually, since you have 11 people to sync with and 12 people to kill. And I didn't quit AB because of the blabber about the waiting time, I don't do AB for Faction. I quited AB because it's now dead. Titani Ertan 09:51, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The most challenging parts of AB are cohesion and coordination. Since you cant reach a sufficient level of those to face the guild groups that jump into battle from time to time, ArenaNet decided to allow people to quit and join battles with no restrictions in GW2, so that balance is instored over time. But GW2 is just not yet there... Yseron - 90.28.214.71 10:14, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the GuildGroups that pop into AB from time to time aren't always so wonderfully fantastic and coordinated. Most of them are for the sole reason of gaining Fac. And the Dishonor thing is rather smart, as there are people who just go to RA, AB, even TA that want to screw it to other people, so they leave. Dishonor eliminates it (sorta). Titani Ertan 11:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If I hadn't been told how wonderful AB used to be, I wouldn't be able to say that it's "dead", because every battle I've been in to date (except the double weekends - things get a bit crazy then) has been very much alive. (It's sort of how I can tell people how Guild Wars as a whole is "dead" because I was actually there back in the day, but your average new player these days wouldn't understand that.) When I'm in AB, sure, I see lots of cookie-cutter builds. But that's sort of what I expect for any form of PvP, from GvG to HA to RA to CMs. And in a place like AB especially, knowing beforehand what sorts of builds to expect can be quite a boon really...no one would ever seriously take Banishing Strike or Heart of Holy Flame before they changed Aura of the Lich, but now that you can find MMs in like 1 out of 3 battles it suddenly becomes semi-viable. You can also practice against these builds and learn to specifically deal with them - getting trained as a new Monk by a pimpslap assassin/Seering Flooms spammer/VoR Mesmer is invaluable experience, and it will be relevant as long as that build remains popular. So, it's not all bad in Build Wars when lots of people use the same builds.
 * I still see..."interesting"...builds on a frequent basis. Sometimes I know it's because this is a new player who doesn't have much skills/equipment available. But other times, it's clearly someone just having fun and trying out something crazy. I guess part of the reason I don't share your views would be that a lot of the people I play with, as well as myself, embrace the "games are for fun" mindset - they are willing to try crazy stuff in AB and other places because it's just for amusement. They're the opposite of those people who use cookie-cutter builds and just want to win/gain faction/whatever... there are times when winning is important, like in a tournament or when you're aiming to get a Tiger. But outside of srs bsns like that, who cares? If I can win an AB battle with an empty skillbar, it makes it that much more fun. I played a round once with an Assassin who forgot you can't change armor in PvP - so he went in naked. That was definitely one of my most memorable matches. And so on and so forth... Everything that you say you miss, I still see. It may not be as commonplace as in the glory days, but I don't think AB is dead yet. (You'd also be surprised how many people with the "uber" builds are just plain incompetent players, so in the end it doesn't even help them at all...) Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 12:08, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Well i love AB and i dotn think is dead maybe has syncing problems but is no deal if you do something else while you wait like read a book,play console, chat etc etc Otherwise i agree that lot of people use same builds but i bet youre one (titani) of those who call noobs the players who use skills you dont like or you think are bad so whats the porpouse or point for new player to try ideas if they are gonna be called noobs?. I think any game dies the moment self claimed pros begin to insult instead of teach. Ivy Thunder Goddess 15 December.
 * TBH it was the different wikis (pvxwiki?) and observer that made so many cookie-cutter builds. Before those you could get away with running pretty much anything and do well.  On the other hand it makes AB at least some sort of challenge...While there are still people running the occasional flare-spam warrior, its much less common than it used to be.  As far as AB dieing...that's more of a result of it losing the "newness" that had actual pvpers playing it.  Immediately following its introduction, you could find guilds like War Machine roaming AB, but these have faded back into 'serious pvp' - read as gvg(its not so much fun for most people to just kill less skilled players repeatedly).  On a different note, I think its laughable the people that call others noobs during AB.  The only good players I've seen in AB just take that for granted, after all, AB is the new RA - it's a place to try out builds and mess around.  As far as AB being dead, however, it isn't unique to AB.  Guildwars has been dieing a slow death for a while now, and that's not likely to change.  People are just waiting for Guildwars 2 now. 24.7.74.140 11:13, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nahh GW is not dead maybe we got rid of the players that want always new stupid quests about killing a new color dragon and maybe is not with millions of little kiddos around but who miss em?? anyway ab is good, normally is just matter of want to play stuff thast all. Ivy Thunder Goddess 14:34 13 January 2010.

I do like throwing back a cold one in memory of the fun days of AB, the golden days, as it were. AB is just s gigantic waste of server space now Nay the One and Only 06:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Faction
This page really needs to spell out how much faction you will gain.. as well as the points. ie, 10 faction for a kill, 1500 for a win. I was trying to look this up and can't see it. Anon-e-mouse 12:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please ignore, found it right near the bottom.. Anon-e-mouse 12:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Lk
AB map never changes to luxon--FoxPromise 02:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's been on Grenz for weeks now. Once in a while it might change to Ancestral or Saltspray, but never for very long. It's pretty boring. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

NPC's
In the battle the NPC's skills are not adjusted to pvp status, the most noticeable being ritualist npc's. Their rituals have 3/4 cast time, allowing them t quickly fill up a shrine with their spirits. Is this intentional? 192.156.33.34 00:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * o: -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 00:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Alphabetically?
Do we have any proof that the system actually works alphabetically, or is this some "Best Guess" kinda thing? Because in all honestly, the kurzick side is probably just checked first, and it has nothing to do with how they're arraigned alphabetically. Is this sort of behavior noted in other missions, or is it just in alliance-related missions?
 * That or Kurzicks are tails, and A.Net ran out of heads. Btw... when you say that Kurzicks are checked first, it's because they are on either a higher priority task or they're on a list. You normally check point 1 before checking point 2. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 09:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Reset?
Think A.net might be kind enough to reset it to neutral ground and give both sides a chance, as said above its been about a month now with constant Grenz as the map with slight change (not counting the AB Bonus weekend couple of weeks ago) but it does give kurzicks the slight advantage because of it and with both sides on even terms would help alot, maybe something that would reset it once a month or something to neutral would be a good idea? who knows, all i know is its getting annoying in AB now when the kurzicks start making fun of the luxons just because they lose on a map which kurzicks have the advantage. Just a thought. Simzy '' 00:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've actually noticed it more at Ancestral than Grenz lately :> –  Emmett  00:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I just checked and it was on Ancestral and some of my guildies on skype just told me the same thing, but with it switching between the 2. Simzy '' [[Image:Dervish-tango-icon-20.png|19px]] 00:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just an idea how about we as luxons let the kurzicks win until we get to kaanai and then fight back>??--Strago Lore 12:16, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Shake AB up?
Will AB ever get some attention? It's super stale.
 * It will only get love if you ask for it. It never had a storage nor a Faction Reward guy. After a small community sign up they both came in the small outposts. -- Demonic Cobra    [[Image:User_Demonic_Cobra_Cobra_icon.png | 15px ]]


 * Just make fun of them back for being so bad they have to keep being on their map <.<

split?
i didn't see the discussion for this so i am wondering why.-- Zesbeer 20:58, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Luxon Wins
We luxons are amazing at AB, kurzicks run JQ and FA but we are the best at AB. Ive only ever seen luxon teritory (E keys) once, never seen deep Lux, we are always fighting in the forest! Why are we so good at AB?! Canarygeorge 15:16, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's because fanboys like you tbh. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 15:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How many games have you played? 1?
 * Also, winning when you and your party members all have the Broken of the Eternity builds, doesn't account as winning. Titani [[image:User Titani Ertan chrome.png|Uth]] Ertan  15:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Canarygeorge is actually one of the best ABers I've ever seen. Sup, George?! That victory last night was pro mate. I once asked Gaile and she told me that they have to make the maps change randomly sometimes because luxons win AB five times more often than Kurzicks. Mr J 15:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Seeing as how AB only requires tabinviting, having them ping, and kicking bad players... lol. Also, no good PvP'rs AB :> -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 17:16, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This topic is more fitting on a fansite forum than the wiki. If you are commenting on the contents of the article, that is fine, but this random speculation is not appropriate for the wiki. Thanks! -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  17:20, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Although i agree with Wyn's point, i do think that perhaps it should be noted on the article page about the Luxon domination in Alliance Battle's.--Wingsy 21:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? It doesn't contribute to the article in any way. Make that note on your userpage or start a fanclub if you like. Titani [[image:User Titani Ertan chrome.png|Uth]] Ertan  12:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Inherently Luxons tend to mob and run through the map, whereas most kurz teams try to play AB the way it was designed. A failing strategy to be sure, but I have played both sides regularly and thats the norm and why Kurz get spanked so bad in AB.67.167.64.47 18:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As someone whose played AB enough to know what I'm talking about, neither side has a greater predisposition to mob than the other, and oftentimes a single good team can lead to a mobbed group losing terribly. 24.7.74.140 11:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not true. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 12:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you have your logic backwards there mate. Its not a single good team beating a mob. Its a single competent team outlasting a mob of absolutely terrible players. Briar 11:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually he is right, I have ABed for years and one good team can beat a mob of 12... why? because of the simple reason that it only takes 4 to cap, any more than 4 and your failing and wasting time. even one person solo capping while the other 11 is sitting at one is better than all 12 people sitting at one shrine. He is also right about neither side having a predisposition to mob, there are bad players on either side. If I ever see my team mobbing with greater than 4, I always break off and cap on my own and It works otherwise I would have stopped doing it if it didn't. Roflmaomgz 19:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

lol, rigged
The score was 497 to 500, however Kurzick still won. Previously Unsigned 08:47, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't blame your crappy connection to rigged matches :s Nay the One and Only [[Image:User Nay the One and Only SIG.png]] 06:27, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Map
Does ab map ever change to luxon side?--99.243.162.52 00:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No. They left a piece of gum in the mechanism. Titani [[image:User Titani Ertan chrome.png|Uth]] Ertan  05:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well AB is currently at Etnaran Keys and it was at Kaanai Canyon a few hours ago. --Silver Edge 02:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't even remember when was the last time I played in Kaanai. :/ No complains here thou, I like the underdog bonus. Mediggo 23:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The map is generally in kurzick territory because all the good kurzicks have gone to JQ/FA, because they win more than in AB. This, in turn has caused the good luxons to go to AB for mega faction win from beating the newbie bad kurzicks in Ancestral :) Sometimes AB gets to Luxon territory by AB weekend etc etc --Wingsy 21:09, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ^This and DTSC. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 21:12, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Mobb wars
So I hear everybody moaning about Luxon or Kurzick mobbing during an AB battle, why not make a new PvP called Mobb wars, where we all build up a team of 12 or more and we just run into battle like the savages we are! Haha, I'd play that instead 8D --84.202.1.30 02:57, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya, they should make the final stages spawn all the groups inside the base, remove all the NPCs (or I guess give a few to the advantage team since Anet has some sort of fetish for rewarding incompetence) and just have a 12v12 kill-count match. That'd be more fun. 24.7.74.140 10:59, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Throwing my full support in, this actually sounds fun. (Also limit MM's). 76.219.110.140 02:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

they allready did that...
 * nah, allout battles aren't that pro, if i wanted that i go pro and do HA or something. Kurz Hates Challenge 20:50, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Points?
It says that 3 points are given each time you kill an opposing team member. I'm sure this is wrong! I've always seen it as points given per kill = the number of shrines you are holding at the time of the kill. Hence if you had 4 shrines you gain 4 points. This will also explain why if you 7 shrine an opposing team early, they find it extrememly difficult to gain any additional points; if it were 3 per kill they should at least get some? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 94.195.210.221 (talk &bull; contribs) at 17:40, 9 March 2010 (UTC).
 * No. It's 3 points per kill + X amount of points every seven seconds, where X is the amount of shrines your team has. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png R I D DLE 00:59, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * So this guy in the waiting area was arguing that capping is a losing strategy, because it's only 1 point for holding a shrine for 7 seconds with no points for killing NPCs, whereas each player kill scores 3 points. Therefore we should go all out to kill opposing players and ignore shrines. This makes sense, what am I missing here? --96.40.177.39 16:54, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The single best strategy is to anticipate what shrine the opposition will go to, then meet them there and kill them. This (1) stops you from losing a flag, (2) stops the opposition from gaining a flag, (3) puts up 12 points (the rough equivalent of holding a shrine for a minute and a half), and (4) adds 20 seconds to the amount of time it will take the opposing team to be effective (unless they brought resses).  You net 12+2x points, where x is the number of 7-second periods it would take you to reclaim the shrine; you also net 20 seconds, plus twice the value of the shrine in question.  Expressed in Time, you net 104+14x seconds per shrine held in this way.  Conversely, capping a shrine only nets 2x points, or 14x seconds.
 * Furthermore, keep in mind that the opposing players cap at the same rate as you; you can't gain any net positive as long as they're doing so. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  17:51, 6 Feb 2011 (UTC)

Underdog Bonus
I don't understand the Attacker Underdog bonus. First, is it just a faction bonus, or is it actually an attack bonus? In other words, do they just get more faction for winning, or do they actually have more hp and dps? Second, who actually gets the bonus? When the border is deep into Kurzick territory (as it almost always is), do the Kurzicks get the bonus or do the Luxons? And what exactly about it is "underdog"? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.15.184.11 (talk &bull; contribs) at 18:31, 14 March 2010 (UTC).
 * The deeper the attackers get into enemy territory the more the maps are layed out to give an advantage to the defenders. So the defenders have better odds of winning. If the attackers win they are awarded a larger faction bonus. Underdog bonus has no affect on anything except faction gain. --Draygo Korvan 00:51, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that the maps don't actually give any advantage at all, if they did the line wouldn't be to the far side of Kurz territory for a week now Nay the One and Only [[Image:User Nay the One and Only SIG.png]] 06:30, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * A week? Try about two years of hardly seeing Saltspray. I think the Luxon paid someone at ANet off. 141.165.170.46 22:29, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Weird Bug in AB
Well, I was playing Alliance Battles with my Chanelling Ritualist and was running this: OACiIyk8UOFmJzlpy8y54emA

Now, for some reason, during the fight I kept getting "Not enough Energy" while I was trying desperately to spike this guy, even though I was NOT suffering from Exhaustion, not under any hexes and had enough energy anyway! It seemed as though I actually had 10-15 less energy than it looked like I had. What's more, when I resurrected (in my base) I had a FULL BAR of Exhaustion! Literally NO Energy available to me, and I had to wait... and wait... and wait until my Energy came back.

Now, I'd decided to post this here because of the Resurrection/Exhaustion problem because in my months of GW playing I've never seen anything like this, and as it happened it was during an AB, so... yeah. Any help? Explanation?

Thanks,

-Mors Andare
 * You were hexed at one point with Arcane Languor? Also there is a bug particularly with item spells that can cause your energy to go out of sync with what the server thinks you has. --Draygo Korvan 22:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe you had one of those annoying sins using exhausting assault on you and you just didnt notice?--Wingsy 22:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Either of those has as likely a chance of being noticed as the other. Also seeing as you haven't seen the problem before, it was probably one of the two skills above. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 22:24, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

tl;dr check the Item spell bug. Novii 22:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Drunkard title...
So…I found out by accident that if you're drunk while waiting for the countdown to enter a mission, when you enter the mission, you're still drunk. Is this normal, or was it just a lucky fluke? Taka Ragranok 05:33, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You can use beer in pvp. Sonic Friday User Da Sonic Sig2.png 22:05, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No, what I mean to say is this: I was in Grenz Frontier outpost, and clicked on a beverage to make my character drunk. When I entered the mission, I was still "under the influence". Does this have to do with the various windows of opportunity as noted on the drunkard page? Taka Ragranok 00:25, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Kurzick team always loses?
Hi, first off I want to say I'm NOT trying to troll. When I started playing GW again early spring of 2010 the first thing I thought would be fun to do was to play a little AB! I remembered stomping the Luxons frequently in the old days of guild wars. However, when I started playing AB this time I lost about five games in a row. My reaction was: "whoa, must just be a coincidence" but I found that every single time I tried to play AB the Kurzick team ALWAYS lost - miserably. I think I won 2/30 games in the first week that I started playing again. Since then I've visited AB a few times just to check if we've made it past Ancestral Lands/Grenz Frontier, only once though have I seen us get to Saltspray Beach and It's pretty much like Etnarian Key's/Kaanai Cayon don't even exist anymore. I haven't been playing AB since that first week I started playing again, but I would go to say that the maps have NEVER shifted to a Luxon favored map. This bonus weekend just reinforces the idea more, played 4 games today - all losses.

Any Kurzicks or Luxons that frequent AB want to correct me, have we really ever made it past Saltspray Beach in the past few months? Again, I'm not trying to troll, I would be glad if I was wrong. Maybe I just have terrible luck :p Also if this is inappropriate to this secction feel free to just delete it. July 23rd 2010 --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.103.193.76 (talk). Yes, the map was on Kaanai Canyon in either May or June (I don't remember which month) and it was on Etnaran Keys in June. --Silver Edge 21:32, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems that everyone good did DTSC and got r12 kurz, then decided, hey, i'm gonna go luxon now. Try Jade Quarry or Fort Aspenwood, Kurzicks usually do well there. Sonic Friday User Da Sonic Sig2.png 21:48, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Kurdicks suck everywhere. - Mini Me   talk  21:51, 23 July 2010
 * First of all sign your comments with 4 tildes(~). Secondly, alliance battles is a dead arena because they buffed the rewards in Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry. Kurzick players tend to be more disorganized. Whether it is just a stroke of misfortune or due to some unknown factor, the Kurzicks tend to lose more often. Its all about organization, reactions to events, and the strength of the team. All three are intertwined and vital to winning a match. Kurzicks just seem to lack it a lot more than the Luxons.--The Emmisary 22:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Emmisary is right if you say the Kurzick lack organisation in AB (but not generally). Because of the buffs in FA and JQ, the better Kurzick players went there, especially considering the overwhelming odds in Kurzicks favor in FA. Also, you have to remember that there is a good chance that new players go Kurzicks, they just do. For whatever reason, cooler background, armor, maybe they just like the name Kurzick > Luxon who knows, but the large amount of new (and unexperienced players) help to give the Kurzicks there terribleness in AB. Last but not least, GW is managed by ArenaNet, which is an answer in itself. --Wingsy 19:00, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plausible explanation. Upon starting GW again in the past few months I have grown to enjoy FA and JQ very much. FA definitely seems tipped in the Kurzicks favor, while JQ seems a little bit more even. Although it seems as though most of the JQ games are won by the Kurzicks either because of the possibility that their better players are just going to JQ or it may be because of the numerous amount of bots placed on the Luxon side. It's funny though, I feel like the best Kurzick players are sticking to JQ and FA while the best Luxon players are going to Alliance Battles and they're simply avoiding a large struggle. Anyways, thanks for your input I appreciate it. - Anonymous --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.103.193.76 (talk).
 * "Any Kurzicks or Luxons that frequent AB want to correct me, have we really ever made it past Saltspray Beach in the past few months?"
 * yeah, Etnaran Keys once in June :P Woo for fair rotation.--Wingsy 13:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ha! Glad to hear it! - Anonymous ```` --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.103.193.76 (talk).

You're right, we do tend to lose a lot in AB, but I wouldn't blame it on being disorganised I'd blame it a on lack of cooperation. There's a difference, don't try to correct me. If you're like me and you usually have to play GW with Heroes and Henchmen, maybe a few players for missions, then you get used to having to tell everyone what to do (even if it's just flag-navigation) and having to deal with everything on your own. So of course by the time you feel like AB, everyone's in the mind-set of having to do everything themselves, rather than actually working with your teammates.

Alternatively when people ask in Fort Aspenwood, I just say that we got sick of Luxons mobbing all the time: call me a troll, and I know you will, but when I was a Luxon in my first few months of GW the matches were pretty evened out, which was great and fun, but this awful habbit crept in of "We're losing! Sod tactics, everyone mob!" I saw Kurzicks mobbing too, but far less frequently. Either way, I've ascended to the great hall in the Faction-PVP sky that is FA because AB is just full of idiots including myself who are constantly 1uping eachother, even if they're on the same team. Come to think of it, give MPs deodourant cans with lighters, swords, bows and fairy dust; shake the house of commons around a bit to get them angry at eachother and you've got Alliance Battles... Medlar 01:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

How to Revive AB
From reading the talk page, it sounds like the best way to revive AB is to reduce/scaledown the rewards from Jade Quarry significantly and Fort Aspenwood slightly so that reward wise they are on par with an AB match. Timewise (if my memory is correct), JQ games last roughly around 10 minutes, FA around 12 minutes, while normal AB games can last around 12-18 minutes. Faction wise (assumming: the AB map was in Saltspray (teams were initially balanced); AB matches last 15 minutes; that the luxons (or kurzicks) always won; and players/teams entered immediately) over a 30 minute time period you can earn roughly: (3 matches x 4000faction in JQ), (2.5 matches x 4000 faction in FA), and (2 matches x 2500 faction in AB), resulting in 12k at JQ, 10k at FA, and 5k at AB. Obviously, JQ returns the biggest reward over time.

Observations (some relevant and some not): 1. The game lengths themselves in JQ, FA, and AB are fine. Some players may prefer short games (like JQ) and others long games (like AB), so the variety is good. 2. JQ rewards individual/single-purpose play more than the other formats (not necessarily a bad thing; and this just results from how JQ is setup). Compared to FA and AB, the amount of time needed to 'cap' an important point on the map in JQ is ridiculously small (including the difficulty), specifically compared to AB. In JQ, all that's normally required of a player is to nuke/bomb a shrine, which normally a single player with an AoE build can easily do (assuming a monk isn't guarding it), or to heal an NPC. In AB, you have to kill off the NPCs as well as spend time capturing it and fending off attackers, which usually requires a team effort (thus encouraging teamwork). As far as players working together to accomplish a goal, I personally think that JQ requires the least amount of teamwork of all the PvP formats (including RA, etc). But I digress. 3. Rebalancing the faction rewards would also probably help balance out the wait times between the 3 PvP types, meaning less waiting on the Kurzick side for everything.

Anyways, in conclusion, I don't think the problem is with AB, but reward wise what it's competing with. Either increase AB's default reward, or preferably reduce the rewards of the other formats. The actual amount should probably be left up to Anet, since they would know best what the average match times and other necessary data are.

On another note, the mobs usually result from 1 of 2 things: lack of experience, or 1 team completely dominating the other, usually the latter. With the latter, weaker teams will try to group with others so that they can't be easily defeated. Or, when it's 6 shrines versus 1 or (5 v. 2), the team with more shrines will naturally go to the 1 or 2 shrines that are left, thus giving it a mob-like appearance. 74.235.62.76 07:48, 20 December 2010 (UTC) Nova 12-20-2010

What Happened to AB?
I just started playing again and one of my favorite thing to do was AB I went there and the place is dead. WTF happened!?
 * Map never change its been in kurzick for like 9months
 * MQSC and DTSC happened. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  05:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Haven't seen anything beyond Grenz Frontier for about 9 months, yeah. Its kinda sad. :\ --User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png Traveler (talk ) 05:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I.e. extremely long wait times for Kurzicks and low win rate for Luxons wastes too much time for both factions, everybody loses, everybody stops playing there. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 06:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, yea. I just came back to see if my trapper build is still kickin, but there is literally only 4 people here in America D1. That's upsetting :< -  B  y  a  k  k  o  [[Image:User_Byakko_Byakkopaw.png|User Page]] 02:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * im a non-allegiance player as in i get both titles, i aggree AB is dead and as the only way i get rep is by vanquishing or books is there a way anet could just split factions down the middle, i.e in kurz territory you get kurz rep and lux you get lux, maybe make alliance battles random or something.
 * ive been waiting for ages to do a zaishen bounty from harvest temple cause i wanna get kurz rep from the npc's outside :PSpark-TBa 17:53, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Unrewarding?
I stand for hours and hours, waiting for a group, never finding one. With speed clears for the Kurzick/Luxon titles and HA grabbing up all of the serious PvP players, after winning one battle, there's absolutely no reward from AB anymore. It's awesomely fun, if there are ever actually people there to do it, but as a character I met today put it: "after you win one battle for the faction cap increase, there's no point except for Zquests." And he's right. A speed clear of Morostav Trail tends to reward around 20k faction in 20 minutes. The Luxon side has Mount Quinkai at about 10 minutes for 10k faction. So both sides get 1k per minute in a pve FFF build. After three hours of standing around waiting for a full group, the most I can possibly get is 2500 after a long and hard fight if I've got the maximum underdog bonus.

The solution: Make the rewards tenfold. 10k + ((score x10)underdog bonus) faction for a win. 100 faction per kill. With a potential for 25k faction in as little as 90 seconds, assuming you had max underdog bonus and a constant hold on all shrines from very near the beginning, builds would be shared, and it would become competetive here again. What do you think?72.161.120.228 06:14, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * why?--99.243.162.52 14:39, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Cause alliance battles were the most fun form of PvP a while back and we would love for it to return!

New Imperial Rewards
When playing as a Kurzick in Ancestral Lands or Grenz Frontier, you gain 4000 imperial faction for winning. That's all I observed while paying attention to it, I don't know about losses or luxon rewards.BlackNova 02:37, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Underdog bonus
Is the underdog bonus still 100%, 200% based on map? I was just on luxon side for ancestral and we won and only got 5,000 faction. I know the normal reward is 4,000 faction, so wouldn't 4,000 faction +200% be 12,000 faction? +100% would be +4,000 faction so +200% should be +8,000 faction. Maybe I'm just doing the math wrong, but 5,000 faction for a win on a deep territory map does not seem right. What is the +100%/200% based off? I'm confused. Magi 13:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Were you definitely looking at the imperial faction box? --[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 14:02, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ugh, nevermind, I'm stupid. I misread.  Its +100%,200% off the your team's score.  So +500, +1000 based on % underdog.  Oops.  Rofl.  Would be awesome if it was based off the faction reward.  Ok, well, AB still kinda lame.  Meh. Magi 14:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I AM SO BORRRED...
Of the Ancestral Lands/Grenz Frontier back-and-forth! When was the last time AB was at Saltspray Beach? I have never even seen the two Luxon ones... 90.198.74.11 19:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it really is sad the Imperial Faction update did absolutely nothing for AB. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 19:15, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It usually takes the GW economy about 2-3 months to stabilize after an update that has a major impact on supply or demand; it wouldn't surprise me if it takes longer for ImpFact to take 6 months to affect years of habit. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:19, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The only time it is ever in Saltspray Beach or the two Luxon maps are during Alliance Battles Bonus Weekend events. --Silver Edge 05:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)