Talk:Angorodon's Gaze

Eh this is okay... at least its free essentially -Rakeman 03:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This+Blood Drinker=Win --Deathwing 03:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Signet of Midnight has a new friend.--Redfeather 04:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Better than Foul Feast. Sirocco 04:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Too good with Draw Conditions. Knock down the conditional energy gain to 10 please. 5 second spammable 75ish health steal is too strong if its not taxing your energy at all. Condition is easy to meet with draw. --Dragonious 11:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be fun watching a team of diseased blood spiking Necros. Ritualist and Ranger secondary have perfect resilient skills for this to work out. Any Melee approaching this group will automatically get a Signet of Agony Spike --Shadetz X 05:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Izzy, im pretty sure this isnt intended, you have to scale the energy, otherwise say hello to this skills new best friend Attuned Was Songkai. Why put any points into blood magic, you get 15 energy off a 8 energy skill= net 7 energy every 5 seconds...(@ 13 spawning power and ZERO blood magic)... that relates to a 1.4 energy gain per second (or +4.2 pips of energy regen), which is better than any energy management i have seen. Of course there are other skills you can use aswell, pretty much anything that reduces the cost of spells. Alternativly you could change the wording -15 less energy (No gain) Rez Meh 21:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

WHO?
wtf or wtf(who) is a Angorodon
 * Maybe a character in EoTN? JUST MAYBE? Tons of Factions skills are named after those random Canthan heros in Tahnnakai Temple ... --MasterPatricko 09:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I bet it's a dungeon boss. --Redfeather 14:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It sounds like a dinosaur. -- Gordon Ecker 23:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Angorodon. RitualDoll 19:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Its one of the dinosaur enemies roaming around Asuran lands. And yes, they use this skill religiously Nay the One and Only 17:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

synergy
combine with blood drinker or signet of agony... then finish up with a plague touch.... yum :D
 * This+Draw Conditions. [[Image:User GD Defender sig.png]] 07:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * First thing I thought when I read this... can you say draw conditions battery more? --Pork soldier 21:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

The main Synergy this has is with Glyph of Lesser energy, you actually gain a lot of energy off using it, I'm a bit worried about it being used unspeced, but maybe I'm just worried. ~Izzy @-&#39; 00:07, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, an E/N would have better forms of energy management than using two slots for this combo. A N/E would only get an extra 5 energy from it, plus wouldn't be able to run N/Rt or N/Mo that abused infinite energy necromancers with healing capabilities. Edit: An E/X with an attunement would be better off using Mark of Rodgort, Vapor Blade, Blinding Flash, or Ward Against Elements. Would spend 5 on Glyph, save 15 from the spell, and gain energy from the attunement, while also getting the benefit of the skill. Necromancers might be able to make use of the combination, but I doubt it is much to worry about if its unspecced. --Deathwing 00:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Izzy you are worried about everything combine with Glyph of Lesser energy, and nerffed a lot of skills because of the glyph. I personally think Glyph of Lesser energy is very powerful itself, a little bit too good even at 0 rank. Why do we worry about Glyph of Lesser energy but nerf other skills instead? Maybe we should not lose the substance for the shadow.--Hydralisk mk2 13:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The Main Synergy is Cultists Fervor i think. Same Attribute, for giving up the HP-Benefit you get 7 energy out of it every 5 seconds. All other vapiric spells are cheap and give back the sacrificed health as well. And no soulreaping is needed to run this combo, you may run another attribute with 12, maybe Healing Prayers. Heal party gives back the sacrificed health and it just needs 8 Energy.

I see it running good synergy with mantra of recovery. half cast time, half recharge, on a 1s cast 5s recharge is excellent. The skill will be able to alternate with one other skill, such as jaundiced, PERFECTLY (with FC and MoR).--Xapti 07:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * With Vampiric Spirit, you could nuke a nearby foe for 125 life steal every 5s for 3E. Alternating with stuff like Blood Drinker (causes bleeding on yourself) and Foul Feast (and possibly Draw Conditions), you could do some pretty massive life stealing for fairly low energy. Patccmoi 00:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

added Cultist's Fervor as a synergy on the page Stefyvolt 13:15, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Next Spike Build?
am i the only one seeing my team falling while all my prot spells are useless? i would even take echo to double this skill, 8 man and you got a spike like every 3 sec and healing like an all monk team. or am i forced to take an ele with crystal wave just to mess with this 0 enery skill?
 * PvP killed the PvE star already :( was looking forward to this skill too. Oh well. --Deathwing 08:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Whats about just adding: If you gain Energy this way, Angorodons Gaze is deactivated for another 15 seconds. So either it is free or its fast, not both. You may echo it, but only for one use. Another idea: If you gain energy this way, you loose 25..100 Health. That would mean: Either you gain life and pay, or its free but you loose some HP (25 at Max Level).
 * Will probably make it 5 energy for every condition, to make it go well with Foul Feast, which is crap anyway atm. --Deathwing 10:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Spikes using this skill would be a definate problem. It could possibly be changed like this to balance it a bit. "Spell. Deal 15...70 shadow damage to target foe. If you are suffering from a condition, you steal 0...30 health and gain 10 energy." It makes the spell do more damage, but most of it can be countered with prot, and it won't be completely free. --Supertrek32 19:24, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Gain the extra 30 health, not steal. If not it's a 100 armor ignoring skill with 5 cost and 5 recharge. --Deathwing 19:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Spiking with a 79-damage skill? Even if your entire team was using it, you'd only do 632 damage. Not very much compared to the typical damage of most spike builds, which aim to deal somewhere around 700-800 (effective) damage to a target, so as to guarantee a kill even if someone isn't able to spike (or is prevented from doing so). (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but other spikes need to consider armor, prots and such things, lifesteal goes right through it. And while it is free if you suffer from conditions, you may use it over and over again. think of echo or arcane echo (or even both). Up to 3 Spikes in 5 seconds, i really dont think someone could heal this up. And the only thing that helps against it, is spellbreaker, all other prots are useless. And as the conditions are on the spikers, the only way to remove them is krystal wave, not an good option for most teams. It could be the next necrospike, we will see if it comes out unchanged.


 * It's not like Blood spike is new or anything. People dealt with it forever, and this isn't much scarier than what was there before. Ofc you can't really keep up with healing if they do it over and over and you just let that happen, but the point was always to interrupt a few casts, save a few spikes with infuse, and then put enough pressure on them that they have to use most of their energy on defense and can't really keep spiking (and btw, a team of N/Me would fail horribly because they'd have no way to actually heal each other, and the other team is not going to spread their offense on different people, they'll all bash the same and 79 health every 2s won't save anyone with 2 warriors and 2 eles bashing their face). If it ever became popular (I'm sure there'll be a small popularity with it in HA, as always when a skill looks good to spike with), a funny counter could be to bring hypochondria. Strips conditions from everyone (well except one) in the area so that they pay 15E =p Patccmoi 15:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This skill is to Vampiric Gaze the same way Blood of the Aggressor is to Dark Pact. Done25 22:51, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * this is a really good skill, i think it should be left alone, i like it
 * If PvPlers dont fear it is too strong, im perfectly allright with that. If it remains unchanged it is a good skill for PvE Bloodbuilds, and the bloodline really needs something like this for PvE to give life to some new builds/underestimated skills.

How about E/Ns with energy storage+earth+blood magic? Does anyone see that as being a spike team after this goes live? --Redfeather 03:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really, E/N cant skill blood up to 16 making this spell not a good choice. And youll see no N/E either i think, some monkskills are much more usefull for defense of a spiketeam, just think of Aegis and Infuse to name just 2 skills that are commonly used among Necrospikes. (Sir Astaroth 21:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC))

Tip: Don't forget with Awaken the Blood it's 87 damage! :)  NeHoMaR   02:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions
To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Sguardo di Angorondon --YukoIshii 23:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ravenous Gaze synergy
I made a theory build at GWO that will hopefully work well upon release. With it you can steal 245 HP max every 5s (vs. attackers) or 195 against any foe. DP adds about 48-96 more per sequence when you use one or two. All damage ignores armor. I will switch in Blood Drinker (-75 life steal and self Bleeding if HP>50%) for Sig of Agony if the energy holds up.

With frequent DP+BotA spam due to low recharge rates (2R and 3R respectively), you should easily stay in the 1/2 health-bar range to use Ravenous Gaze every 5s with little problem. A.Gaze can be used every 5s due to the self-Bleeding which doubles as degen to bring your HP down for the elite. Energy in this setup is only spent on RG regularly because of Masochism's effect of making DP and BotA cost 1E (A.G is "free"). Shroud of Distress keeps you from being easily taken out at low health levels by physical foes (assume +20% enchant mod is used):


 * --- GW:EN's Masochistic Gazer --- (NeAs) Blood 15, Soul Reaping 13, Shadow Arts 6


 * Shroud of Distress: For 50s, if your HP <50% you have a 75% chance to block attacks


 * Masochism: Gain +4E with every sacrifice for 36s


 * Signet of Agony: Sacrifice 10% health and you Bleed for 25s, nearby foes take 46 damage


 * Dark Pact: Sacrifice 10% HP, foe takes 48 damage


 * Blood of the Aggressor: Sacrifice 5% HP, foe takes 50 damage or you steal 50 life if he's attacking


 * Ravenous Gaze: Steal 30 HP, if you have <50% HP steal another 90 HP (120 HP total)


 * Angorodon's Gaze: Steal 75 HP, if you are suffering from a Condition gain +15E


 * Rez -or- Awaken the Blood: For 53s increase Blood and Curse attributes by +2, sacrifices increase 50%

With AtB up for the Rez you get a max 271 life steal every 5s vs. attackers (215 otherwise), and DP adds 53-106 damage per sequence should you use it once or twice.

arredondo 19:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Awaken the Blood could possibly kill you.--Atlas Oranos 18:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not if you play smartly. When under duress, simply stick with A.Gaze and R.Gaze. --arredondo 21:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, I finally tested my build above after GW:EN released and it ain't too hot since it is hard to lose HP fast enough to make it work well. However, here is a gem for arenas and is maybe the highest life-steal-per-second (lsps?) combo in the game, assuming L18 Blood under AtB:

You are at less than 50% HP most of a match but stay alive from SoD and your super high HP (740 HP, which gives you 370 HP as your threshold). The massive combo every 5s of RG-->AG does +/- 227 lifesteal. Using Blood Bond helps keep your HP at the threshold while your team mates get 27s of unconditional +7 regen. I like this new skill a LOT, especially since it is a "free" cast, allowing all energy to go to RG once the long lasting enchants are up. --arredondo 10:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Me/N
i'd say do this as me/n. high fast cast, MoR, Blood Drinker and this, there you go. maybe even echo it. RA, here i come! - Y0_ich_halt 19:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

It's like vampiric gaze, but better! Score! Having played with it for a bit at Fort Aspenwood, I think it's a bit too powerful-- there are some VERY weak conditions out there, and 15 magic is a really nice trade for some of those weaker conditions (ex. blind on a caster, bleeding, cracked armor on someone who's already squishy). I think the energy gain or damage should be decreased a small amount to bring it back into line with vampiric gaze. I was using blood drinker to give myself a condition to play with. With life transfer, life siphon, and all that lifesteal on my bar, the damage from the bleeding was totally ignorable.--24.128.87.220 19:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Blood Drinker, Angorodon's Gaze, Awaken the Blood, Mantra of Recovery at max. blood and max. fast cast; this setup is definitely overpowered and needs a nerf (e.g. reduce the energy gain to 10). -Void 19:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree! This stuff with Arcane Echo steals 71 hp every 2 seconds that
 * 1) hard to be interrupted!
 * 2) goes through ALL enchantments (RoF, SpiritBond, ProtSpirit)
 * 3) heals caster for 71 health every 2 seconds!
 * 4) doesnt take any energy from caster (every other casts are easily covered by simple natural +4 energy regen)
 * NERF IT! Even a stupid R/N toucher needs to come close and has much lower dps.
 * see this build i submitted. - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 12:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

IMBALANCED
How can you not see the imbalance in this skill? OMG. Look. Chillblains or Blood Drinker + Echo and Arcane Echo or Mantra of Recovery = A RANGED lifesteal skill that you can use infinitely.

Do this: Arcane Echo, Echo, Agodoron's Gaze, Blood Drinker, Agodoron's Gaze, Gaze, Gaze, Gaze, Gaze, Gaze to infinity.

How did Arenanet not catch this? Wow.

edit:

To be honest I don't even see why this skill needs to be in the game. Perhaps the Necromancers were having energy management issues but there are plenty of life steal moves already and this DEFINITELY isn't a solution. It just boggles my mind that Arenanet didn't catch the potential for abuse with this skill from day one. I took one look at it was like, wow, that's a joke. Life steal, from a range, and 15 energy. Hell, you can kill someone with this skill alone.


 * LoL the skill is a joke. Blood skills will never be properly balanced because they go through prot. It's either suckiness or spikiness, in either case = bad. But fear not, I'm sure you'll get 50x replies saying how this skill is fine because there's a counter. There sure is, it's called Crystal Wave! Woot! Servant of Kali 16:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * it's called a monk in your team... they still don't know about this skill T-T - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 17:57, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * People should not be required to bring crap skills just to counter overpowered skills. This needs to be 25/90'd until a good solution is found.72.43.62.68 17:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion
Since the energy gain isn't curved at all, why not make it more like foul feast? If you have the caster gain 3 energy per condition they're suffering (maximum 15), they can't possible reap the entire benefit of the energy gain by themselves, they'd need a foe to put all those conditions on them (or an ally if they have Draw Conditions or Martyr). That would make it more of a situational energy gain skill then one that people can abuse with Signet of Agony or Blood Drinker... RitualDoll 21:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * argh, why'd you say that? we don't wanna nerf this! xD - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 11:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not? This skill reminds me a lot of SF when NF first came out. Only this skill practically pays for itself, with a relatively easy condition for blood necromancers to cause. RitualDoll 19:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * that's exactly why i don't wanna have it nerfed. i wanna exploit it. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 19:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's the exact reason I posted a suggestion. So people wouldn't be able to exploit it. You'd figure Izzy would learn his lesson about curving energy after ZB...
 * you kinda ruined teh ironiez... :( - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 12:39, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. Do you need a hug? =(
 * aww, yeah, hug me :) - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 11:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * kk. I'll need your address and all your bank account numbers. D= RitualDoll 05:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * lol xD - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 14:24, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Gah! I see what you did. This was a serious suggestion. Stop mocking me. T-T RitualDoll 20:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * you mean that build i submitted? - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 21:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Build? RitualDoll 18:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * posted a link above. what did you mean then? - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 18:51, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You make me sad on the inside... Wanna snuggle? <3 ;-; And I was talking about completely defiling my suggestion. It's ok though, I still love you. RitualDoll 02:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * i noticed this discussion would come up the first moment i read this skill description, so i decided to terminate it. when i made that build there, it was a sure thing that angorodon's would get nerfed the exact way zb did. well, maybe it'll get nerfed in a different way >.> snuggle? only if you're a girl :)> - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 12:44, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not. But for $5, I could pretend. RitualDoll 16:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * urgh. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 17:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Nerfed
Woot, gg ArenaNet. :) -- <font color="#FF0000">AshleyS   (talk•contribs) 18:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Finally this one got nerfed, this was just so overused by alot of necros in alliance battles, myself one of them, but honestly this one deserved to be nerfed.--Cursed angel 19:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

IS it a nerf??? damage got decreased but.... enrg cost went down too so is a nerf or a rebalance plus with condition its posative gainThe Golden Arrow 21:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Its a nerf to b-spike. Lord of all tyria 21:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Non-elite Mind Blast for the class with the (second?) best e-management in the game FTW? --71.229.204.25 21:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Totally and completely, no questions asked. A necro without a condition hanging around on him is either a MM or hasn't found a victim yet. =P Although the damage reduction makes this pretty ineffective for spiking by itself. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 22:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * that was kinda the point of this nerf... - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px|Have a look at my page]] 11:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

What is the point of blood magic again? None of the skills deals over eighty damage (with a good casting time also) and why not take a fire elemental instead of a full blood necromancer. After the first nerf to this skill, the only time this skill would see use is against searing flames elementals and never seen it used much again and as of now....guess you can try to spam it like flare.William Wallace 13:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ...so... what did you wanna say? - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px|Have a look at my page]] 13:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No skills deal over eighty damage, but the skills are armor ignoring AND steal health. I don't see how that isn't a good tradeoff. BSpike was OP, its a fact. SniperFox 11:29, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to disagree guys, but i find this an amazing nerf - this + foul feast + plague signet = spam away, and condition removal/backfire. its amazing in RA/TA
 * OK, condition removal or whatever. I just see a regretful pattern that repeats itself. A strong, high damage blood magic skill gets toned down to minimal damage. 42 Damage at 16 Blood. The fate of blood magic spikes. Once they are viable, they are easy and imba and quickly get reduced to uselessness. Maybe someone found a use for it in RA/TA, but as he mentioned, not for dealing damage. --Longasc 10:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This still needs to be nerfed. It's time to bring other skills in the same line out of the garbage bin and nerf the crap out of this. This is essentially unconditional, skill-less 9 free energy plus healing plus damage every 11 seconds in a NON ELITE SKILL. Energy Boon is ELITE and its benefits can't touch this. Energy Drain(PvP) gives 13 energy after cost every 26 seconds at 16 inspiration and no one runs 16 inspiration. Angorodon's is much more powerful than some elites, and needs a nerf. There aren't even any viable counters to this. You can counter a lot of other energy management. Hide your energy from mesmers. Shatter/remove/drain conditionals. Shatter attunements. Atrophy Rangers' expertise and Paragons' leadership.. Sig of Humility on Warrior's Endurance. What to do against Angorodon's? remove conditions from the other team? lol wut. Right now it just promotes bspike causing other balanced skills to get thrown away. The only reason why this is kept overpowered is to sell EotN.72.71.215.97 01:06, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * personally I think everyone is making way too big of a deal about 1 little skill. Every blood necro I have seen in pvp trying to spike with this is set on so quick they're useless. Maybe you guys need to stop wasting so much time whining about it and learn new tactics. Its not some uber skill...get over it. Simply change the order of targets a little(i.e.bump the necro up some)Nay the One and Only 17:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Non-elites should never be better than elites.

December 9th 2010 Update
Obviously it's intention is to force blood necros in pvp to use soul reaping, and give curse necros a better option for e-management when using foul feast. 141.224.228.155 05:30, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * True to that but if anet wants some real synergy with this skill and those for curses they might as well make Cultist Fervor a soul reaping skill so necromancers have some good emanagment for the high cost spells of curses, and besides it's a skill that already relies on an investment into soul reaping to actually have it see some use. Damysticreaper 19:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Except Cultist's is blood magic and is elite... --<font color="Black">frostels 19:44, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Elite skills have been moved into different attributes before and because it is in blood CF has limited use. If it's about the balance of the elites then move Icy Veins to Death Magic and Discord to Blood (easier acces to conditions and hexes).Damysticreaper 19:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)