Talk:Order of Undeath

New Effect
I'm loving it. You've restored the "order" back to how an order should be. Not sure how well it's gonna work, balance-wise, but it's clearly better than the all-but-one-die shiz. Thanks Natso 02:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

something...
I removed a note saying that this boosts the attack of allied minions since the spell description clearly states only your own minions are effected. If there is an anomaly that does boost allied minion attacks, feel free to make a note to the effect and mock me for it. HeWhoIsPale 13:13, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Now I'm curious - I will test this as soon as I can. --SoraMitsukai 07:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you come to any conclusions? i was also wondering if it affected allied minions too? T1Cybernetic 19:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Mock mock. Mock.  Mock mock mock.  Okay, I'm done.                 Mock.   --80.16.169.162 17:13, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

i stiil have a queston, does this stack with dark aura? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:83.82.234.131 (talk).
 * Yeah. xD Halogod35 03:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

It's clearly said "lose 2% health". Why the sacrifice problems, i have no idea.  Alistair Cookie   18:02, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

New MM build
I'm trying to come up with a new MM build using the updated version of this skill, it hasn't come far yet. So far I think that the minion you should keep alive is a vampiric horror, since you will get healed a lot more with this skill. Diokana 02:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Death Nova on all other minions = wtf bombed in the face. -Desi 03:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You know that could work really well... I'll try that next time I'm on. Diokana 04:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So, essentially, this is an Elite Signet of Creation? How lame. --BarGamer 06:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Except, you can pick the exact time the nuke goes off. Maybe works like an emergency bomb button, if all your minions are stacked up with the green hula hoops.
 * This skill rly is no longer Elite. Should be at least 3 minions letting live, like other skills. --Xer 07:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What were they thinking... this was a nice elite before and now its just another elite to be archived. --[[Image:User_Chieftain_Alex_Chieftain Signature.png]] Chieftain  Alex 08:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What did it do before the update? And I kinda like the idea of a super-minion.98.221.10.191 09:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * this is what it used to do. --M age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]M ontu 09:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you - and the old one seemed to be a good elite, why did they change it? (health regen + lower max health to counter health loss)? 98.221.10.191 09:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * With this skill it seems you either have to plan on resummoning you minions very often or build out like a beast master with a minion instead of a pet. Anyone know how it chooses which minion to save?Spartiatai 13:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really, you can pair it with another necro running Jagged Bones. In fact If you run a pair of Rt/Ns one with

and another with

With Explosive Growth on both Rt/Ns, raise minions, then as soon as possible, load them all with death novas, and jagged bones, particualarly the Shambling Horrors. Once you're satisfied set off OoU, this will trigger death nova and jagged bones which in turn will trigger explosive growth. In the case of the Shambling horrors, they will trigger Explosive Growth twice. All the newly raised minions will trigger spirit's gift sending out a massive AOE heal.BeeD 14:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Realised my mistakes here, I hadn't thought it all the way through, I fail ^^; BeeD 13:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This could be used in GvG more or less. Put it on a hero but disable OoU. Let the necro raise 10 minions and enchant them with Death Nova. When they all gank up on the Guild Lord, BOOOM! Guild Lord would crumble if all goes right. -- Treasure Boy  [[Image:User T-boy sig.jpg|19px|I love this skill :D]]  Talk  04:15, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

glitch
I wanted to test the new update to see how it worked with shambling horrors, and so I put it on my hero. When I went to use the skill my hero acted as if it were a spell to cast on an enemy and continued to waste energy as it repeatedly tried to cast it. It worked fine wheni had no enemy selected. On the up side, it works pretty well with the shambling horrors. Colgo kacol 13:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's bugged, the skill actually works as a targeted spell, try using it while aiming at someone with Spell Breaker or something. The spell will fail, but will work if you target something else. KazDoran 22:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is bug only in that it reacts as a targeted spell when u are targeting a foe or and liveing ally. What it allows you to do is Choose Which minion you want to live by giveing you the option of targeting one. I believe there are others spells like this as well like Putrid Flesh. If u have a few minions and you click PF a random minion dies but if u select one minion and click on PF that specific minion dies. Basically this skill give you the ability to make any 1 minion of your chooseing the equiviant to Flesh Golem in offensive prowess with the tactical bonus of that specific Minion. Vampiric Horror Now give you about 50 health per hit and attack with a respectable Rate of fire.A single Fiend is a force to be reckoned with now. I honestly didnt touch the skill before the change. The "Kill your self to get a lil bit more dmg" concept is not one i easily grasp, but many say it worked and quite well and I dont doubt it. This skill maynot be what it used to be, but IMO it is by no means a bad skill.72.62.76.82 03:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Auron Bushi

Does the update mean "All but one of your minions die", that anything w. Jagged or a Shambling transform or are the destroyed too`? Nice nerf btw A'net :( Klefer 09:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It forces the transformation, hence the idea behind a MM bomb when coupled with Jagged and Shambling, unfortunately, that doesn't work too well since OoU only lasts 30s while Jagged has a 15s recharge so at best you'll have 2 minions become Jagged Horrors, while all of your shambling horrors will become jagged horrors BeeD 13:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Why?
I'd like to know why this skill was nerfed. I did not see anything on the Developer Update page or the Game updates page that really explained why this skill was killed so badly. I used to use this in AB for my MM build, but now I can't as it would kill all my fucking minions, and the only benefit being shitty regen and shitty extra damage. So, can anyone tell me why they wanted to make this skill useless? 71.127.159.233 05:31, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Cause you where one of very few people that actually used this skill. They tried to change it to a new skill, and all they did was change it into a flesh golem variant, which kills all you're minions. They didnt think this through very well... it also goes against its name as an order (like pain, & vampire) Lυмιиαяυs 08:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I even tried using a bunch of maintain enchants on this lone crappy minion... still sucked. You can't MM with this skill and Flesh Golem is still more Reliable. Nikdanbro 11:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I was the other player who used this a lot as my PvE bulldozer skill. I've yet to see how well it works now, presumably they want you to make a MM build that doesn't have all 8 skills set aside for maintaining your army, instead just having this skill and one summon and the rest to play around with other death magic tomfoolery. --Ckal Ktak 11:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, why the f... use this elite when there is Flesh Golem instead and I could still have an army of minions with that golem. The whole concept of this skill is pure nonsense. This skill is so dead now it has even started rotting. --82.83.40.113 14:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they wanted it to be a "ranged" Fleshgolem? Or which returns health? Noctarch 18:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

It's updates (and resulting discussion) like these that show just how out of touch ANet and some people on this wiki are. OoU was a great elite for PvE use. Now it's a smoldering pile. Nice job. 69.196.146.107 19:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's still useful in high-end PvE. Minions there deal shitty damage at most, and they were primarely used as meatshields or bombs. This with Death Nova is a nice bomb, dealing lots of damage at once, and with some other nukers/whatever, killing stuff, making more corpses available, which means new minions. Just use Animate Bone Minions to quickly build up your army again. It only takes 4 skill slots (Animate Bone Minions, DN, OoU and BotM), so you have 4 slots left for other stuff. --Sir Bertrand 08:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Raise a shit-ton of minions, death nova them, them bomb all at once + you get a tank? Why is this a nerf in everyone's eyes?--Fallen (talk ) 14:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Typically, when a skill is usable, meaning it's simple, moderately powerful and applies to multiple builds and situations, and then it gets changed in to something that has only one or two uses that other skills outclass it at...it's called a nerf. Meaning it was made weaker. And by the way, Signet of Creation is really what you're looking for if you want minions to tank and blow up at once. RitualDoll 11:21, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Signet of Creation is more of a time bomb, where as OoU now is a trigger bomb, with your thumb over the trigger. In that functionality I find OoU is better since you have MM nuke on demand rather than waiting for it BeeD 10:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Better? It takes up your elite slot and does the same thing as a non-elite signet, as long as you're patient. =\ It's shit. Just like that Vow of Strength skill is since they nerfed that as well. Worthless. At least Wastrel's Collapse could knock someone down. 66.202.1.169 05:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you havent killed all your enemies inside 30s, you need to work on your team build --BeeD 09:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Anet, For The Love Of Grenth, Just Use Jagged Bones
Heres a possible fix...
 * 1) Rolling Thunder -- Bring back old Order of Undeath that buffs your minions for 5 seconds, as every Order should be (but at least leave the IAS, if no other buffs, its -very- nice!). It was PERFECT for A minor buff like this was all that this skill needed; if it needed anything at all!


 * 2) Army of One -- What veteran necro player wants to kill-off ALL thier minions but one; thats what Flesh Golem's for? Its completely against sanity? If they really want to, just give the Golem an area/nearby 'Aura Effect' such as mild regen/degem that benefits minions and/or harms foes. Or some kind of buff that weakens for each minion you control, giving you, the master, an tactical incentive to keep Golem going solo?


 * 2) Shock-n-Awe -- If Anet -Wants To Play Around- with new game mechanics, why not try using Jagged Bones as the experimental test subject -which this Elite where made for bombing-. Instead of 'All But One Dyeing' crap, after a set time-limit of enchanting the X-least healthy minions trigger, and/or whenever any X-minions are called back to grenth, a number of -X- leveled allied Jagged Horrors spawn in thier place. PvE Necro-Heroes are notoriusly uber with this skill, and this setup would allow players near-exact bombing control if said players are without mad-leet skillz to rival A.I. This could be a PvP/PvE skill function split (as with Unyeilding Aura) to maintain balance.

--Falconeye 19:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I WANNA CRY this was my favourite skill of all time because it wasn't jsut another flesh golem or bombing people wiht minnions. You need to know how to use it to use it and it was awesome now that it has changed might as well get a flesh golem. Much MORE simpler. Please revert it back because right now it hardly has a use other than a juggernaut of a minnion which can be replaced with ease a Flesh golem. 216.45.99.187 16:51, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Complain on the skill feedback page of the official wiki not the fan wiki (too many accounts on too many wikis), no one will hear you scream here 90.195.203.141 23:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC) edit: and forgot to sign in BeeD 23:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that they did over do it with the all but one minion thing, i like some of it but maybe they should make it so half of your current minions die...?--Bigg 12:31, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They'd have to redo the functionality of the skill again. Could you imagine half of your minions becoming super minions and the rest becoming bombs? OP Much?BeeD 10:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

well im just trying to give ideas to get it out of the suck area...like decrease the health regen and maybe the lasting period --Bigg 18:31, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Really its called Beast Mastery ;-) Since this skill doesnt kill jagged horrors created through jagged bones and shambling horror its not like u loose EVERY minion. I can see why peeps who used this skill originally are pissed. 15dmg X 10minions = 150dmg per 2seconds with fiends only, 3seconds with melee ones only or 2.5 seconds with a mix. Throw on that ebon vanguard ward spell and watch out ;-)--Justice 21:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

They could distribute the bonuses among all your summoned undead. As in, you get +30 damage, divided by 10 minions, so each minion recieves +3 damage. +20 hp regen, divided among 10 minions, so each minion recieves +2 pips of regen. Etc. ... The attack speed bonus would throw it a little (I mean really, how useful is +3.3% attack speed), but that would just encourage a smaller army. ~ Da Si 02:36, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's something to test
If you set off OoU leaving you just one minion, then after the recharge you trigger it again does

a) The minion die leaving you with nothing? or b) The minion being the only minion remaining get a new lease on life (ie the effect is renewed)

If a, well shit. if b, then there's the possibility of a continuously renewable superminion. BeeD 15:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Seems to get a new lease of life.I tested this theory back when OoU was changed,was able to keep 1 minion alive 3x longer than the average degenning minion would live (could be more,i got bored)

Also:when your ready to use OoU click on the minion you want to keep.I'm not sure if OoU was designed to be used as "target minion" but i was able out of,Shambling horror,Vamp Horror,2 bone minions,1 bone fiend,1 bone horror, perfectly able to select the minion I wanted to keep each and every time.I think using OoU without a minion targetted ramdomises the process (testing seems to suggest so) BlackBlood  - talk 18:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Just like Gaze of Fury it automatically targets the last being created unless manually told to do otherwise. Very simply and fair way for both lazy ones and those who want to decide. Noctarch 19:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

yeah you summed that up well Noctarch :)  BlackBlood  - talk 20:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That in itself sounds like a pretty scary thing. You could spend your entire skillbar on making one minion and then superbuffing its damage with curses and what not. Barbs, and the like. I can see now why its kill all your minions but one. However does that make it better than the old OoU?... hmmm --BeeD 09:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You could? I did. Just Dark Bonding your Undead pet. Most people wouldn't kill it. Noctarch 16:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

IMHO,the current OoU and the old "+ x dmg for 5 secs,sac 2% max hp jargon" can't really be compared in the same setting. Blackblood has a point. I remember the first time I went to try and capture the old OoU and had a shitkicker of a time trying to kill the boss with it. But after the update, it was a piece of piss to get it. Admittedly, I was still a hero noob back then --217.206.99.134 09:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In terms of low end pvp gimmicks the superminion has mere "buddy" potential
 * In terms of mid-high PvE the dmg bonus form old OoU is superior on a group of 10 minions rather than one singular[[Image:User_BlackBlood_Pacman1.JPG]] BlackBlood  - talk 18:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Revert
Ya, bring back my OoU necro build. Even with all the testing and trying to use verata's sacrifice for something useful (That was complete fail), I Couldn't get anything to work. Thx izzy for fixing your mistake :). 205.188.116.16 00:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I'm glad he reverted it so it'll get more use. MMs needed more than one minion to be useful, they're not to be used like pets.A concerned citizen 01:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Hah! yay! :D It's back! Nikdanbro 02:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoo! ^_^ I might AB soon now to celebrate. Now all that's left to fix are the Xinrae Weapons and the piece of shit the made Vow of Strength in to. 66.202.1.169 02:58, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Xinrae's Is brilliant :P... VoS does suck at the moment though. Nikdanbro 04:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The new Xinrae's is a copy of WoR (the item is useless now) and they robbed Communing of 2 elite skills without trying to make it decent in other ways. =\ So you get a slightly different version of WoR. Congrats, you've also got an attribute that does nothing. 66.202.1.169 19:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

OoU + ebon ward of honor + bone fiends ;-)--Justice 04:56, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey guys, notice that it now has no initial sacrifice cost? --Ckal Ktak 06:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * what was real nice was that the "update" made it super easy to cap and now they've reverted it XD --BeeD 08:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * finally [[Image:User_BlackBlood_Pacman1.JPG]] BlackBlood  - talk 09:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, noticed that. I guess that's considered a buff or maybe they just forgot? =P Anyway, happy that it's reverted.--Mira Castillo 17:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Happy++, thank you! 89.180.172.242 14:59, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought this was kinda funny with Dark Bond and Animate Vampiric Horror, tbh. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  18:30, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Back to normal.
It does not need a target to cast OoU anymore. This was probably fixed in the last update. 67.83.127.23 06:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Again, new function.
Seeing how this skill (in PvE at least) isn't so good anymore, and that heroes are better MM's than a real player with Jagged Bones or the Discord team (once again with the exception of the ritualist bomber), I believe that this elite need a real re-work. Changing its function to something similar to Signet of ghostly might would offer some balanced diversity to the real necros, since the FoC build is almost dead and Icy Veins was nerfed... Except SS or Assassin's Promise which is a build entirely based on PvE skills, I'm really bored with my main char. What would you think about that? It's just an opinion, I'm almost sure that what I'm saying is useless. :D --Frozen 00:52, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So your reasoning for this skill "not being so good anymore" (BTW it has never been changed) is that heroes are better with it than people? ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I thought so while reading the other posts. I may be wrong... Anyway, this isn't what I meant at all. What I wanted to say is that players may suffer of difficulties to find a place in a group as MM since a hero do most of the time a better job with another skill. In such a case, Anet could buff this skill to make players a good alternative to heroes (sorry for my english...). --Frozen 01:02, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, leave this skill where it is, I demolish entire armies with this skill using bone fiends, especially when I also place an Ebon Battle Standard of Honor around them. --Ckal Ktak 09:19, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * in my experience, heroes barely used this and i had to micromanage :( 24.127.42.103 19:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeh, heroes rarely if ever cast it. -- -Ch  ao  s-   20:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Anomaly?
Is this the only "buff" spell where the buff has no type? IE it's not an enchantment, not a weapon effect, etc.... I can think of other untyped buffs (defy pain, dolyak signet, etc...) but none that are spells. Necromas 18:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I was gonna say Symbols of Inspiration but, nope, that's a skill, not a spell. So, my comment is useless. Sorry!--Ph03n1x 02:45, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
 * A bit late to the party, but Convert Hexes. MA Anathe 08:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Double Dragon. --Silver Edge 09:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Would heroes use this right?
title --173.66.203.20 16:35, 20 April 2011 (UTC)