User talk:Sjhshh

Ledge farmer no more
The ledge farmers were much like the fellows who walk the roadsides picking up cans for recycling. The rewards were never great, but with enough investment of one's time, one could get a modest return. I know, it's an MMO supposedly, but part of Anet's genius has been that it actually catered to all stripes, from those who enjoyed meeting new people in PUGs to those of us who just enjoyed playing the game with our spouse or the occasional solo farm or mission. But with the ruination last month of raptor farming and now of ledge farming, we solo farmers are feeling increasingly isolated and under siege. Even the chat in the ToPK outpost after the update was particularly vicious toward those of us who thought we had discovered a slow, but sure way to eventually obtain that obsidian armor. "Now you noobs will have to join groups and actually play the game" was perhaps the most polite observation. I play the game. I enjoy the game immensely, in all its aspects. I just added my fortieth title to my Hall of Monuments earlier today. Part of that enjoyment was showing people new to ledge farming how to do it, sharing something I knew in a game where so many profess to know so much more than I do and to be so much better than I am. Well, you've won, you with your speed clears and Terraways. You've gotten Anet's imprimatur, so go ahead and feel superior. And I, well, I know my place, and it's not on a ledge, fending off foes by myself and finding that little bit of satisfaction when that glob finally dropped. Sjhshh 03:53, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Its still possible to solo-farm the Underworld and Several parts of FoW. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  04:08, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps now you know how everyone felt when they nerfed barrage/pet teams in tombs - and that was a team of 8 players!! Tombs is just not worth the time to reward ratio. Which is a pitty because I really enjoyed that area. They need to switch the end rewards from lame green weapons to ectos or something else more worthy.


 * WTF is ledge farming? -- Hong 04:09, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ecto farming the ledge in ToPK. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 04:32, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the response at ToPK was pretty hostile. I really don’t care for Anet’s method of handling problems like this. Botters do ledge farming. Solution? Get rid of the botters? No. Remove the creatures that drop ecto from the 1st level. Sure, the botters go away, but real players have to go too. Why the “baby with the bathwater” mentality? Yeah, it’s nothing new and we’ll just have to suck it up I guess (again). But were the real players really hurting anything? And if the botters are banned and they decide to purchase the game again to bot again, doesn’t that help Anet out? I would’ve liked the banhammer to have kept swinging and let the rest of us get that occasional ecto than just let the botters win again. Sardaukar  [[Image:User_Sardaukar_sig.png]] 05:07, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * play ra get bath buy zkeys profit....? i mean for realz zkeys are so easy to come by you can even pve farm zashion every day and get one zkey every 2 days that's 5.5k.... also its ra i bet you could go into ra and win with some shitter bar.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 05:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Fun Fact: most bots use stolen accounts. Since there's no subscription fee, stolen accounts don't need any upkeep from the bot runners. You really think they'd actually spend money? --Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 06:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't it possible to solo the whole Tombs with a perma and maybe a bonder hero or something? And what exactly happened with raptors last month? razor 39999 10:26, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

FYI, I just did a full run of ToPK. The only change is the replacement of all ecto-dropping foes from the first area. The other three areas are unchanged. Wiki has been updated. Tub 10:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC) I hope you realize how idiotic that statement is because it's pretty much impossible to "get rid of the botters" without 24/7 human surveillance in every district or a way to hack computers via GW. -- Konig / talk 16:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * not sure what you mean by Raptor Farming nerf...did couple hundred runs with my A/W farmer with no probs during Lucky Weekend. (Usaf1a8xx 12:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC))
 * "Get rid of the botters? No."


 * Not everyone enjoys PvP, zaishen challenge, or UW. Some people found their niche in ledge farming and were having a good time. Why should they be happy that their favorite farm was collateral damage in ANet's perennial battle with botters?


 * @Sard/Sjhshh: on the other hand, Konig is correct that ANet (along with any other MMO developer) is never going to find it easy to just get rid of the botters. There's really no way that they can indefinitely afford to allow easy-to-bot areas to exist immediately outside of an outpost. This isn't a win for botters; they don't really care if your farm is nerfed.


 * Of course, ANet could take a moment, when they make things difficult for botters, to acknowledge that these actions also affect honest players and that not everyone gets a kick out of adapting to change. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:22, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * @Sjhshh i would just like to point out GW isnt a mmorpg its a corpg, there two dif things.Spark-TBa 18:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No they're not. That's just a marketing term. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 18:38, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * max of 12 people in team = massively multiplayer?Spark-TBa 18:41, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

), but I’m glad you got the point of my post.
 * MMO/CO doesn't change Sjhshh's point: &mdash; that has nothing to do with whether explorables are instanced or universal.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:44, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * i never said his point had to do with area types, i was just politely pointing out an error in an earlier post,if im wrong in doing so then i appologise.Spark-TBa 18:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Konig I’m well aware of Anet’s efforts to stop botting in ToPK. I never said it was possible to get rid of all of them ("to bot again"
 * Well put TEF. Thanks. When I said the botters won, I meant they’ve effected a change that forces other players to abandon a facet of the game. They ruined this farm and the players suffered.
 * Botters 0 Players -1. Sardaukar  [[Image:User_Sardaukar_sig.png]] 18:58, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I do have to jump the bandwagon here with most opinions addressed. I used a Me/A ledge farmer for the past two months by sitting in front of my computer and clocked 4000 hours of active playtime. I find it rather insulting that ectos are becoming more and more ridiculous to attain by conventional methods. Oh well, back to clearing the plains with my rit... in two hours :/ 128.119.169.132 19:07, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It's Guild Wars. You don't need to farm to earn money, you earn plenty for whatever you want by just playing the game, and during each event, earn millions. Unless you want a miniature Panda or something, there's no need to farm. If they nerfed your favourite farming skill maybe it's time for you to realise this
 * You're right, but some players (myself included) would like to get a rare weapon and would like to work for it to get it rather than exploiting people's stupidity. (i.e. power trading) All these changes to areas simply make it more difficult for hard-working real players who are actively spending their valuable time in-game. 128.119.169.132 19:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * @Sardaukar: Sorry, I didn't bother reading your whole post. I kind of stopped after "get rid of the bots" because that was the dumbest possible comment that's relevant to the discussion possible to have been made. Botters don't win unless they are left alone - they win on laziness of others alone. It's true that a different method could of been done to deter bots while not killing "ledge farming" - although I for one can't understand the appeal of doing the same thing over and over again acting like a living robot - for instance, randomize the spawns so that sometimes they appear where they were, sometimes they appear elsewhere, with that it would of been possible to both farm and bot, but botting would be far less effective while farming would of only been slightly less (as farmers could just resign while bots would attempt to farm, giving them the occasional worthlessness). -- Konig / talk 19:57, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * @128.119.169.132: Are you a fucking moron? You don't need to 'power trade' or farm to gain enough cash for whatever you want in this game. Play the damn game. Do hard mode missions, vanquish, try some high level areas like the underworld and DOA. I've never once farmed or 'power traded' and I get by just fine. I have a GWAMM with Obsidian and two pairs of chaos gloves. All of my characters have 60k armour and heavy equipment packs. I still have plenty left to buy all of the lockpicks I need..
 * Oh great yet another hormonally-disgruntled nerd who assumes way too much. I do all of those things and I do have alot of wealth, I just prefer to have more.128.119.156.82 00:05, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * coolstorybro I personally think the QQ needs to stop. Adapt and Overcome


 * Again: Farming is not supported. IT is tolerated. It's not the same. If you lose a farming build, never ask for it to come back. Look for another. You don't need to farm for anything. I made obsidian armor in one moth without farming. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:24, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Farming is merely tolerated? In an economy with Nicholas, chaos gloves, Torment weapons, material-intensive consets, and dozens of other examples, I would urge you to reappraise that assertion. One can play the game without farming, but when one reaches the higher echelons, one either farms or pays farmers to supply the items necessary to achieve certain goals -- and paying farmers would seem to give one little room to criticize them. Once one has vanquished an area or a boss, repeatedly returning to vanquish again would seem to involve farming. One need not farm to play the game, but one is certainly playing the game when farming. By creating a host of difficult and time-consuming goals for elite players, Anet not only contemplates farming, it encourages it.

I appreciated TEF’s comment that Anet could give more thought to the consequences of its actions for honest players. And Sardaukar seemed to sum up my feelings in suggesting Anet took a hammer to whatever problem it perceived. I acknowledge that Anet has a difficult task in policing its game (our game) and it will never please everybody. But I do wonder if some solution to whatever problem it perceived could have been implemented short of total elimination. (It is idle speculation, but I am curious as to the scope of the problem, given that ecto prices have been stable to slightly higher over the past year, when it would seem that botters flooding the market would drive prices down. But economies have multiple influences ...)  Anet brilliantly eliminated the botters in Bergen Hot Springs without affecting the 55 farm of Nebo Terrace in the least. Is there some solution along the lines of what Konig proposed short of a total elimination of ledge farming? So, yes, Mith, I would ask Anet to revisit its elimination of ledge farming. One can always ask.

Finally, it does seem that we have common ground in that we all enjoy this game and we all only seek a great GW experience. Is it too much to ask, though, that we avoid derision and one-upmanship? Otherwise, the appeal of solo farming the ledge should only be that much more obvious. Sjhshh 18:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Mith is right, farming is merely tolerated - Anet has said such previously (and recently to the TK personally). Those items you listed, Sjhshh, are created for those who enjoy expensive things - with the exception of nick which I'm guessing is more designed to make more interesting collectors. Normal collectors don't cater to farmers, but farmers benefit the best out of them - same goes for expensive things, Nick, and so forth. There's a difference between "catering to" and "benefiting best from." -- Konig / talk 19:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Moving of post
Hey Sjhshh, I just got back and added a quick blurb here. Swing by and take a look if you wish. If not, take a look at GWW:BOLD. I've got a fair bit of things to do around here before Monday starts, but I'll check back for any response from you before the evening is out. G R E E N E R 01:49, 28 March 2011 (UTC)