Talk:War in Kryta

Now what?
Now what are we supposed to do? The whole WiK was so exciting and I was always suprised what came next, but now what's gonna happen? What's gonna keep me from getting bored?
 * This is all part of GW:Beyond, so I hope we get more stuff, possibly involving the other races and the factions within them. --92.4.85.39 17:07, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I am hoping there will be a festival added to the game to celebrate the end of War in Kryta with royal gift drops and stuff :D Perhaps they will add something involving Maguuma because that place is void of all player life..or bring Orr to surface,that would be kool :D or perhaps attack on mantle HQ? Who knows... 95.180.76.188 22:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * We still have some loose ends left from this War. Evennia is missing in Ascalon (Her disappearance and Livia's comments at the end of the battle confirm it). Thackeray is still alive and we likely have to go with Gwen to find him (For Ebonhawke), and hopefully Langmar is too. -Yossitaru 05:20, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm hopping we see a new outpost/city (Ebonhawke) avaiable to people who completed WiK and the following storyline until Gwen and Thackeray establish it. --Snowstone 15:22, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I am totally hoping the same thing! I really enjoy these WiK updates. -- 98.207.68.194 06:13, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * All I want too see is Adelbern's final demise. The guy is practically dead. All that's left is finally killing him, and get as many people from Ascalon as possible. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 20:16, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe he is holding Evennia prisoner and we get to kill him. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 18:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Adelbern dies around 1100 AE. It's 1079 AE. And he kills himself (basically). We already know when, how, where, and why he dies, and have since 2007. I doubt that we're going to skip 21 years between the WiK and the next chapter of GW:B. But that doesn't mean we won't revisit Ascalon at a later date (after the second chapter). -- Konig / talk 19:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Erm...do we? 2007 was a long time ago, and back then they hadn't decided on Beyond. I wouldn't be surprised if ANet had retconned the date of the Battle of Ascalon City to stop them having to skip a decade or two. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:43, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Livia and the Scepter of Orr
Is mentioned in the lore background but it had nothing to do with the War in Kryta. Now that the war has ended (White Mantle dissolved or assimilated, leaders dead and Mursaat dead) is this really relevant to the WiK anymore? I know it was set up as her reason for wanting the scepter, but now that it has resolved, if she does get her hands on the sceptre later on it must be for some other plot. 114.78.8.119 18:01, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * According to Linsey, the Scepter of Orr is found after the War in Kryta - hence why it didn't have a role. Why she still wants it no one knows but she does find it and take it for some time according to Ree. I removed the line about it to avoid confusion. Now that the event is over, I think that there could be an overhaul of the article's format. To make it look less like it was made on the spot. -- Konig / talk 18:21, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the WiK content ending means the wiki can finally get a decisive grasp on how to write and handle this information. In a way it's a relief. I'm kind of excited to see how the lose threads the WiK left us with and how they tie into the rest of Guild Wars Beyond. Perhaps Livia's reason for taking the Scepter later on will be a part of Guild Wars Beyond. 114.78.8.119 23:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Or perhaps they just messed up with the lore. We'll see. --Frozen 16:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Since Livia said she was going to Arah during the Epilogue, my guess is that the Scepter thing is somehow to do with the dragons, and is somehow a GW2 spoiler. So I doubt that it'll come up again in Beyond. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:39, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * According to one of the post-war NPCs (i can't remember who/which ones) Kryta still has some serious business to take care of or watch out for, but what it is is never mentioned. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 2.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There are still lots of undead around. The lich took control of them for a while, but the undead were already there. Most of the undead found in Kryta are Orrian, but there are many other undead around the world. Something else must be raising them. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 16:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Coronation Ceremony?
"Salma will make a public proclamation in several days..." After reading the most recent WiK update of Murro's (VICTORY! WHITE MANTLE DEFEATED, dated July 12th), I smell a coronation event. "Public proclamation in several days," let's see, that should be this weekend or next weekend. I'll be waiting to see what this statement means. 122.20.162.103 15:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Ryoko
 * I think that's just what you see after the last quest. She speaks to all and makes her public proclamation about the future of Kryta and the Seraph and such. That probably happens several days after the battle, since the battlefield is already so clean and it was time enough for some people to disappear without a trace. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 17:48, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Errrr...what's going on here? The July 12th entry I mentioned above has been taken down from the www.guildwars.com/warinkryta page.  Did ANet tell Murro to take that entry down?  ANet's in on it with the White Mantle!  It's censorship I tell ya!
 * Mith, you may be right but I wouldn't know. I have no toons capable yet of running through the whole WiK storyline yet.  I have one toon getting real close though!  She's almost at the spot where she can disable the Zinn golem in the Nightfall campaign, then the rest of the WiK story will open up for me.  Still though...I'll keep my eyes open for what upcoming weekend events are in the works.218.40.186.9 03:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)Ryoko
 * They've since put the page back up. ANet, I've got my eye on you.  Harm one hair on Murro's head, and you'll regret it.218.40.186.9 03:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)Ryoko
 * Heh, the old guy is going to be buried next to The Scribe, not that he's useless. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Arenanet
Could you let us know if we should continue keeping our eyes peeled for updates from Murro, SB/WM facebook accounts, etc. ? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Conclusion
We have a lot of background information and lore about this, but not much (as far as I can see) about the state of events by the end of the war. I haven't done much/any of the WiK myself, but it would be interesting to know the important bits about the end - who dies, who goes missing, what happens to the main people involved, what happens to Kryta and organisations; what are the significant differences between Tyria before the war and after. Stuff like that. -- pling 21:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Funny enough, Tyria is exactly the same before and after the war, with the exception of a handful of NPCs in Lion's Arch Keep. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 23:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Post war, discussion at the EotN Hall of Monuments telling Gwen Thackery is missing and Langmar dead. wasn't sure where to add this...;-)Roybe 16:21, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Evidently, Felix, if Thackeray is missing and Langmar dead, Tyria is not exactly the same. -- pling User Pling sig.png 20:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I find it odd how we can go streamrolling through the entire forces of any given enemy without great difficulty, and indeed kill absolutely everything on the map, but the situation never changes to reflect this. I also can't figure out where new mobs come from after quests are completed that should, realistically, inhibit their recruitment or eliminate it entirely.  It seems as if ANet is placing far more importance on their own NPCs who have done diddly squat to help with clearing out all those thousands of targets than they are on our own characters.  –Jette 20:08, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree! Although according to lore, the player in the capacity that we know them technically doesn't exist, I think.  And yes, tons of stuff has changed...  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 2.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thackeray and Langmar are still at their respective locations in Eye of the North. From a lore-based perspective they might be gone, but Tyria itself, our game world, is entirely unaltered. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 22:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This content is only supposed to be a limited thing. Its only purpose it to link gw1 and gw2. Very few things are left over because newer players' won't have their game play altered from the original content . Perhaps we should create a page called " The Impact of the War in Kryta" to answer pling's comment. @ Jette and Alice, first off all I'm not at all surprised that you two would be complaining since that's all you guys do on this wiki. Secondly, Guild Wars has never had any system to show off your accomplishments until HoM came out. Why would anet suddenly decide to do such a pointless thing for a dead game when they are already going to implement it into gw2? As for lore, yes we don't exist. Mhenlo and co. are the characters behind the lore. If you wanted your own personal lore I suggest you either  wait or find another game. The Emmisary 23:02, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I used to do lots of stuff on the wiki! I did so much that I ran out of productive stuff to do, and now all I can do is call ANet bad until GW2 comes out.  –Jette 08:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I wanted to know what happened lore-wise as well. A conclusion section on the article would be fine; I doubt a whole new article would be needed. It doesn't have to be too detailed - short explanations and links to other relevant articles would do. -- pling User Pling sig.png 15:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * On second thought lets just put it/keep it on the Guild Wars Beyond page. Merely creat a short summary of the events and put in under a WiK tag. The Emmisary 20:49, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You have got to be kidding me... My comment wasn't a complaint Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 2.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:40, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Remnant
I find it hard to believe that the White Mantle are done for. There was obviously those few chasing Captain Langmar and Lieutenant Thackeray through the Ascalon Settlement. And I'm sure more Mursaat are around somewhere. I hope we'll get to fight the remainders of their forces since WiK apparently isn't over yet, perhaps during our search for Thackeray.  Eive  14:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the War in Krtya IS over. We won. But, War in Kryta being the FIRST chapter of Guild Wars Beyond means that there is more GW:B content still to come. Also, we know that the White Mantle is still in existence at the time of GW2, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get to kill more of them. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 16:25, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Kryta
Realize that, eventually, humanity will most likely outgrow monarchy, as it did in reality. People will start coming up with other ideas, monarchies will not like this, and then being a royalist will not be as good of a thing as it is today in 1079ad or whatever the hell year it is. Maybe you're doomed to go down in history as the notorious bastard who aided the Shining Blade in installing the worst and most treachorous royal line that Kryta will ever see. Maybe Salma and her eventual successor Jenna will have pure hearts of angels, but if human history has shown us anything it's that the paradigm of a world ruled under monarchs doesn't last. What does the next chapter hold for Kryta? What does the "2010" of this civilization look like? Will humans even last that long, considering all the problems that already exist, on top of the problems that we've proved in reality to be capable of building ourselves? Oh fuck I don't know, I just want to see a modern interpretation of Guild Wars Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 07:15, 26 July 2010 (UTC) . -- Konig / talk 03:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you smoke a joint before you typed this? Be honest. - FireFox  [[Image:User_FireFox_av.png]] 07:30, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * He's right. All monarchies eventually turn into oligarchies, then they stay that way forever. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, any monarchy is by definition an oligarchy to begin with. Things don't really work that way in games, though.  I'm confident that the rulers of Kryta will be entirely benign and not at all tyrannical.  –Jette 10:16, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * We're dealing with humans here, though I think you have a point. No I don't smoke anything btw  The point is that in a world that just contains humans as the dominant top-of-the-ladder race (Earth), it's a lot easier for us to start fucking each other over and devoting ourselves to securing power and wealth while dividing our selves.  However in Tyria there are plenty of threats which will likely require a unified and "benign" spirit unless we want to go extinct.  Aside from Cantha which will be a bit like Japan or other isolationist nations in the real world, humans are getting owned from all sides.  However maybe 300+ years from now, if a time ever comes when peace can be maintained long enough and humanity has room to start making serious advancements, I wonder how many parallels would be kept between, let's say, Earth's more modern ages and Tyria's equivalents.  Would there be elite ruling classes, shadow governments, puppet politicians and subversive social engineering going on?  To be honest though I don't think Tyria will ever see such a state.  It has a bad case of "Evil guy of the Week", the Charr are not likely to keep any alliances once the dragons are dealt with, and I'm sure given enough time the Asura will become major antagonists.  In fact if anyone is capable of shitting themselves up like the humans of reality it's probably the Asura.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 2.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Varesh Ossa and Emperor Usoku say that the enlightened rule in Kryta will not last forever. :P - Zaxares 01:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Kryta during gw2 is a constitutional monarchy, keep that in mind. And video games - whether it be government or behavior - can always differ from humanity, so it doesn't matter if "we're dealing with humans here"
 * In Spain we got a constitutional monarchy. And the king, other than telling idiots to shut up, waving in parades, and some PR, does pretty much nothing. He's more a a very expensive talking decoration than anything else, and he wouldn't have it any other way, they guy was smart, give away the power you don't actually have, and in exchange get paid for doing nothing, that's a pretty good deal. Monarchy it's just a name. What actually happens can be anything else. A king can be a dictator, or a puppet used by those that rule from within the shadows, or whatnot. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 14:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I know this is a little old, but the rule of the White Mantle was pretty much a theocracy. I would rather have a monarchy if the ruler was Salma. -- 'Mai Yi ' talk  21:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Collectors - missing the weapons
The "collector & items" table is missing the new weapons collectors. The current three rows show only collectors distributing a single item, as opposed to the two new ones who offer multiple choices, so I wasn't sure how best to fit them into the current format. Anyone want to take a stab at adding them?
 * Grahame (Commemorative Weapons)
 * Lionguard (collector)

Thanks! &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 04:10, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

been away
Been away from GW for a while, long before WiK stuff ... is it possible to jump in and experience it as others did as it was running it's course, or is the only option to read the dialogues from the wiki to get the story? - 68.82.28.213 00:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can experience the entire war. Just head out to the camp to get the dialogue started.--[[Image:User Pyron Sy sig.png|19px| ]] Pyron Sy 00:42, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, don't go grabbing all of the quests first - as then you'll miss all the nice hidden dialogue throughout Krytan. -- Konig / talk 02:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Special weapons & minis drop
Are those still dropping now (Confessor, Law and Order, etc...) ?! I never seen any since I completed the "Battle For Lion's Arch" (and I'm still doing a lot of "Wanted" quests with human groups).


 * Yes, they are. The drop rate is very low, so most people won't see them, even if they do the SBBs religiously. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 15:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Kk thanks was wondering... They have probably changed the drop rate then (because at the beginning it was absolutely not unusual to see at least one dropping every 2-3 runs)

Walkthrough and Flowchart are out of date.
With the introduction of The War in Kryta, Asuran Allies, and Ebon Vanguard Allies, the flowchart and walkthrough are now rather out of date, not just due to there being overarc quests (which is minimal at best), but the fact that they reduce some of the requirements (mainly the dialogue - which can be viewed at a later point in time). Also, there's a quest "A Good Deed" (doesn't have a wiki page as of this comment) which replaces Wintersday Cheer. -- Konig / talk 07:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * How does one get the good deed quest? --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 08:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The flow chart and walkthrough are now misleading at best; we should replace them. Previously, following WiK was one of the most complicated things to do in the game (keeping track of order of events, pre-reqs, contingencies, ...). Now, it's not any more complicated than any of the EotN primary quest lines; it's less complicated than Sorrow's Furnace.


 * I think the flowchart can be removed (unless we think flowcharts are generally helpful, in which case we should add them for EotN, Factions, Nightfall, and Sorrow's Furnace &mdash; those are the other questlines that can get tricky). I think we can replace the current WiK subpage with a pointer to The War in Kryta quest article, where the walkthrough is do the subquests and here are some things worth doing generally, much as we do with e.g. Northern Allies. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:43, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, in John Stumme's announcement of the overarc quest, he did indicate that the overarc was supposed to replace the walkthrouh. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 09:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * In regards to the "A Good Deed" - I'd have to get a character that hasn't done Wintersday Cheer and doesn't have The War in Kryta/Ebon Vanguard Allies yet, but Thackeray was in Ice Cliff Chasms with a new default dialogue (explaining where he and the Ebon Falcons were during the events of Eye of the North) offering the quest there. Dunno if you need the Ebon Vanguard Allies or if you can get it always, or if you need to complete EN. -- Konig / talk 09:48, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I posted about this on the "Wintersday Cheer" page. I hadn't done that quest but was offered "A Good Deed" when I got to the point of needing to do Thackeray's scavenger quests for the picnic.  I could not get the EV as allies until I first did the new form of the quest and then gave him the items he wanted (to trigger the dialogues, etc. and then get Evennia and the EV to talk outside the Eye). --71.58.105.97 09:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

gz anet for making wik suck more

ty anet for making us do more useless qeust to get to the quests and for making bfla easier

(Reset indent) I have a friend who took the Good Deeds quest after finishing the EV quests in EotN, but before completing EotN (which was added to the account this week). Lt. Thack now appears as the friend's toon exits into Ice Cliffs. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:40, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * WiK is a collection of bugs so big I don't even know where to start cataloging. The auto-application of this horrendous, superfluous "overarc" quest upon viewing the first dialog in Dakutu Camp (yes, it's *automatically* rammed in your quest log, LIKE IT OR NOT - I always believed that taking a quest entailed going to see an NPC and getting a *choice* whether you want to take it), the bletcherous nearly endless banter/blather by the various wordy/emo characters which must be witnessed else it repeats rather than doing some strong storytelling, the sheer chintz of it ... if this is the kind of stuff GW: Beyond is goign to be made of, I'm dreading the next piece that comes out. I am positively livid at having gotten shoved this junk up my quest log - and with no way to dispose of it elegantly. Yume 20:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to see some sort of WiK-related reward for vanquishing the appropriate zones. Like 1 War Supplies / 15 kills in the reward. Black Curtain's average of 294 would net you 19 of them, which isn't enough for a Medal of Honor, but a good start toward it. Just some reason to be in the zones besides the bounties, and MAYBE get people doing things besides speed clears again. Guildwarsrunner 07:04, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Fighting White Mantle groups
I find it almost impossible to fight them without being wiped out at least once. The White Mantle have a variety of builds and professions. I haven't tried every single hero party builds on PvXwiki yet, but the one I'm currently using (Discordway) is clearly obsolete when used there. Is there any hero only builds that can effectively deal with the new and IMO more powerful White Mantle groups? I own all the campaigns FYI. 220.255.2.144 16:39, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You are right that the Mantle/PKs have better builds than typical PvE (or, at least, better balanced and better aligned with each other). And, clearly, that makes them more challenging. If you are using Discordway correctly, then your next step is to adjust your techniques rather than your builds. (By correctly I mean that the party carries enough hexes & conditions to setup Discord and that you bring counters to D'ways weaknesses, e.g. hex & condition removal, extra heals or protection, ...)


 * Discordway is so reliable that, except for very narrow exceptions, you can get away without paying too much attention. The WiK opponents require you to emphasize tactics over marginal changes to your build(s). Amalek the Unmerciful is a decent test case: parties will wipe if I go there on auto-pilot, but it's a 5-6 minute h/h effort if I'm actively involved.


 * Here are a couple of techniques that are avoidable in general PvE but often essential in WiK: Pulling; watching/waiting for patrols; suppress their rez with Frozen Soil; bring debuffs and damage mitigation; concentrate on the best target (which is often a healer, but depends on the composition of your team and the opposition); take advantage of terrain.


 * If you feel that you already make good use of these techniques, then (a) my apologies for starting with basics and (b) to help focus on the appropriate next steps, could you describe one specific fight/walkthrough that frustrates you? We can focus on making that one easier. And, my bet is, that will be enough to make things easier throughout WiK (not to mention speed things up elsewhere). — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:43, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm usually running Discordway, too. It's quite nice, but it's a lot easier if you have a player dealing physical damage and someone casts Mark of Pain or Barbs on them. Both are hexes, making it easier to trigger Discord, and you increase the damage output by that much, that their healers can't heal fast enough.


 * What i also find useful is to not set your mind on killing a specific enemy, like the monk, the ele etc., but to switch target when your skills (like Barbs) are ready again. Even though they are NPCs and do not have a reaction time, they often can't switch the healing fast enough, as they cast all they got on the other target. If you can keep them busy on the original target, e.g. someone attacking him in melee while he still suffers from Barbs, at least on of both target dies. Usually the one targetted from Discord.


 * I did not ever use frozen soil against the Mantle/PKs. I do not even take that much advantage of the terrain or pulling. Generally, i find it works best with a setup like this: One player plays Necromancer, casting Hexes and applying conditions, taking a Discord-Team with him. The other player plays a Warrior, though that doesn't matter that much, it's just for keeping them busy and dealing physical damage (Hundred Blades + Mark of Pain = Lots of numbers. Add Splinter weapon...). Assassin's Promise allows me to cast the hexes frequently, which really helps speeding up Discord. Other than that, just watch out for patrols, though i usually can get away with fighting two teams at once. The other team members are usually 1 Monk, 1 Mesmer and 1 Ritualist. I'm playing Necromancer/Caller, and i really notice the difference between having only henchmen with me, or my friend providing the Warrior + rest. A player monk can be useful, too, but other than that, i feel that more players are too much. Use something else then, depending on what everyone is playing. But seeing that you use three heroes, you should have the problem of too many players.. 84.167.216.236 19:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Good stuff! (With your permission, 84 (may I call you 84?), I'd like to steal some of your ideas for an article I've been working on for making WiK easier to those having difficulty.)


 * The IP is right that, GW being the versatile and awesome game it is, there are lots of ways to succeed. Take any advice with the appropriate caveats and pick those techniques that (a) work for you and (b) are fun. Both ideas above increase the effectiveness of Discordway, but using entirely different strategies (the first by changing tactics, the second by adjusting team builds and composition). With any luck, other ppls will post other ideas for turning Discordway into Discordway++. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I generally had a ST rit/panic mes/SoS rit, a heal monk, an MM, healing hench, and melee hench, with two other random henches in 8 person areas. Make sure you have interrupts for hard resses. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 20:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * If you think having all campaigns is still hard for you, you should think about those players with only Prophecies and EotN campaigns. With only those two campaigns and limited skills/heroes, they're surely crying their eyes out because H/H is a lose-lose situation for them. Wolcott 17:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)