User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Dervish/Archive 3

This skill definatly needs a buff it is hardley worth calling itself an elite skill even when used by other proffessions, i really would like to see this skill get buffed so it can come into use 24.238.94.19 00:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Honestly this skill is ok in optimal conditions, but most of the time, you will most likely not gain the energy you spent on the skill back, my suggestion is to make this skill cost 5 energy.--Atlas Oranos 10:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The skill's not bad on Melonni or something, it's the whole mechanic that's kind of bad. Enchantments like this you want to keep, and you don't gain the Mysticism bonus from them.  There are also enchantments you want to remove, like Grenth's Aura, and if you stack things the wrong way you can't pick things off from the bottom of the pile.  To further the problem, the enchantments you want to pop on and pop off usually aren't in Mysticism, so you're spreading out your attribute points (not a problem with Grenth's Aura in this case).  Unless you're pretty cognizant of the battle and your bar, you generally can't run both types of enchants at once, so you lose plenty of flexibility.  Your mid- and backlines may help out with providing Aegis or Guardian, but those aren't as predictable and force narrow windows for removal.  I see Heart of Fury these days as far as derv enchants and that's really it - like the ritualist, who was supposed to be specialized in spirits, the mechanism didn't work out as planned, I guess.  But I digress. 5e wouldn't hurt. =P ~Seef II &lt;☎|→&gt; 09:39, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is horrible on Heroes. They activate it as soon as they get into aggro range, wasting the damage and half of the duration. --Deathwing 06:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely needs to cost 5e. Also should be a 1/4 second cast and have the dumb PBAO Damage removed. Zuranthium 06:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It would probably work great if they just cut everything in half. Half the Damage, half the recharge, half the duration, half the cost, 1/4 or 1/2 casting time.  Because it is brief and is ment to be cast on enemies, cast time helps a little, and since it has to be used twice as much as well.  With half the cost the return from mysticism is high, which is a great improvement, and removing and replacing it is no longer a problem.  Because of the increased return value, it is feasible to have a 10 second duration and 10 second recast, removing it's stacking application.  Which is actually a good thing, since stacking the application sabatoges the energy return.  The same thing is good for Balthazars Rage, it's actually more dire there.--BahamutKaiser 04:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I used this on my D/A for a while to have infinate energy... its not a bad skill with IAS is can return 10-30 energy 03:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not when your attacks miss or you are slowed down or when it get stripped, reduce cost to 5e and remove the pbao dmg. 87.189.197.167 11:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 10-30 energy is useless after the battle is over. --Deathwing 16:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I consider this underpowered, as it lasts only a puny 5 seconds at 12 mysticism. thats only half the recharge,even Heart of Fury lasts longer than 1/2 it's recharge at 12 mysticism! Burst of Aggression also outclasses this as an IAS in terms of a primary attribute IAS. It lasts 8 seconds at 12 strength, and even increases to 9 at 13 strength. Pious Fury only stays at 6. 9/12 out classes 6/10 by alot,in my opinion. I suggest...
 * Make the stance last longer. increase the scale to 2...7...9.
 * Shorten the recharge. decrease it to 8.

 BaineTheBotter  09:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I wonder why they changed this from 1..9..10 to this now. Prokiller88 03:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * you do realize that this is a stance, as opposed to Heart of Fury which is an enchantment. Stances are more powerful than enchantments as there are a total of 3 skills in the game to remove them, Wild Blow, WIld Strike and Wild Throw, enchantments on the other hand have numerous ways with which they can be removed, not to mention that you can't interrupt a stance. Dargon 21:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Your point here is? [[Image:User BaineTheBotter Icon notify before deletion.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  08:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Wasn't it implied? It's a difficult to remove IAS. --Ckal Ktak 09:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Didn't he wrote Burst of Aggression(stance) also outclasses this ? 87.189.235.242 14:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Different profession, Different skill. --Ckal Ktak 14:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Still this skill needs buff. How about this?
 * "Stance. For 3...7...9 seconds you attack 33% faster but can not be the target of spells." 5e 10r Prokiller88 16:36, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Non elite vow of silence? In Stace form? with IAS? Are you mad? This skill won't be changed from it's "pious" form, an enchantment will be lost, and the fact it gets lost at the start is a good thing, opening enchant bombing to 33% IAS is a nice setup.--Ckal Ktak 18:24, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well still the duration needs to increased. Prokiller88 02:02, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

''5/0/8, Stance. Lose 1 Enchantment. For seconds, you attack 33% faster. When Pious Fury ends, you lose another Enchantment.'' Losing so many Enchantments means you can't really keep defenses up, so it forces an offensively focused Dervish, who's counter-spikable during his spike. ~Seef II &lt;ℹ|۞&gt; 04:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Just increasing the duration is good enough.Prokiller88 22:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Increasing the top end duration should be enough, the scale of this skill used to be 5...something, but Izzy dropped it back so it wouldn't be another assassin debacle like Burst of aggression was. --Ckal Ktak 17:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The 2...7...9 suggestion works well enough, imo. 165.21.154.92 08:44, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that's retarded. A 90% uptime, 5e, non elite 33% IAS with a negligible drawback, are you serious?   And don't even think about comparing this to burst of aggression, losing all adrenaline is a _serious_ liability to a warrior, while Dervishes can kill just fine without enchants.  --Symbol 02:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This skill is not underpowered but it is alot weaker then other dervish skills. +10 damage and a 12 second recharge? The 12 secs of crippled is not worth it and since it is a condition it will be removed once a monk notices. "Scythe Attack. If this attack hits it deals +10...22...25 damage. If you have more health then target foe, that foe is crippled for 5...13...15 seconds." 5e 8r Prokiller88 01:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Last I checked Lyssa doesn't slit her wrists. There should probably be a different cost to the skill like "take 15...8...7 more damage from physical attacks while moving" to promote linebacking. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 23:44, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

the heal at the end is anti-climactic. Maybe 15...51...60 fire damage instead would be nice. Balthazar isn't a healer last I checked. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 23:44, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

inherently promotes spam (Reversal of Fortune/Guardian, low recharge enchantments) and backline Dervishes ("in the area" on a frontliner is bad). I don't know how to fix this without changing the skill entirely, maybe making the heal earshot would save it? --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 23:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

no scythe attack costs more than 10 energy. In fact the only attack skills this could be used with are probably concussion shot, Broadhead arrow, Temple strike, and Pin Down.--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 23:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was modified to affects more than one attack skill, heck it even saves you from the problems of quickening zephyr, and allows a derv to use a bow without expertise, what's the underpowered part of a skill that just has a redundant feature? --Ckal Ktak 16:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is seeing good use on the Balthazar build that's coming into vogue. I don't think it's underpowered, but the scaling is a little funky. might be interesting, the breakpoint for 3 is at a level nobody's ever going to spec to. ~Seef II &lt;ℹ|۞&gt; 03:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I feel that this skill doesn't deal enough damage to be worth it and it's not even used against blockway. With the buffs to party healing this skill will not appear on anyone's skill bar. I think damage should be buffed.87.189.233.184 14:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)