Talk:40/40

where?
that's less common right? i never ever heard of that... &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 22:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Everywhere in pvp but it's not commonly said because it's common sense for MOST pvp spellcasters to have a 40/40 set. It's mostly used to ask a pug if they have a 40/40 set if you're unsure about their skill. When you're using a staff and you don't use enchantments, people might ask you why you're not using a 40/40 set. 67.184.146.234 21:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for that detailed answer :) &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 21:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Mechanics
I was discussing my ele build with a team member and he told me to take Mindbender. I disagreed and said that I was happy enough with my 40/40 set. A 40% chance on either (I said) would be enough. I was then told that it was two instances of 20% rather than a 40% chance... Can anyone confirm either way please? Shamayim Araboth ~ Ayy 10:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's two instances of 20%. Basically you have a 1/5 chance of a half cast and if that doesn't work you get another 1/5 chance. There's a possibility (1/25 times) that you get two half casts making your cast 4 times as fast (a one second cast becomes 1/4). The double trigger only works for half casts however because there is a cap as to how fast your skill recharges. The cap for faster skill recharge is at 50% unless it's a single skill that does it (ie. Ritual Lord). Hope that makes sense. (it probably doesn't :s)67.184.146.234 21:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is the same reasoning as how someone suffering from Blind and hexed with Blurred Vision will not have a 140% chance to miss. With two HSR or two HCT items in the same attribute, there is a 4% chance of quartering, a 32% chance of halving, and a 64% chance of feeling ripped off.  The "40/40" notation here is not exactly accurate, but rather it is used as a convenience. Here are the numbers, again assuming the same skill attribute:


 * Event || HSR only || HCT only || HSR & HCT || QSR only || QCT only || HSR & QCT || QSR & HCT || QSR & QCT || No Effect
 * Probability || 20.48% || 20.48% || 10.24% || 2.56% || 2.56% || 1.28% || 1.28% || 0.16% || 40.96%
 * }
 * &mdash; Wolf2581  (contribs · talk) 22:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * }
 * &mdash; Wolf2581  (contribs · talk) 22:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Chance calculation
i'll explain it for anyone interested: You imagine a tree diagram. the first level has 5 branches, one of them stands for success (the bonus kicks in), the other four stand for fail. this is a 20% chance of getting the bonus. now behind each of the branches add the same structure, so you have four big fail branches (rofl) that each lead into five branches of which one is success, and one big success branch that leads into five branches of which one is a second success. Now there are four different combinations if you walk through this diagram: Count how often these occur: The total number of possible outcomes is 5*5 = 25. So, as we counted, one of these 25 is bonus activated twice: 1/25 = 0.04 = 4%. Eight of them are bonus activated once: 8/25 = 0.32 = 32%. But the chance for getting the bonus at least once also includes getting it twice, so you have to add them: 36%. It's possible to do all this with more numbers and less imagination, but i think this is the way most people will get it. - Y0_ ich_halt  21:03, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Success -> Success
 * Success -> Fail
 * Fail -> Success
 * Fail -> Fail
 * Success -> Success: once
 * Success -> Fail: Four times
 * Fail -> Success: Four times
 * Fail -> Fail: 16 times
 * Graphically speaking:

Legend:
 * tick Success
 * No Fail
 * Yes Double-Success
 * yellow one of each
 * red Double-Fail

Used a 5 * 5 table to represent 20% * 20%. Each cell = 1/25 = 4%

HCT:
 * 4% both
 * 32% one
 * 64% none

HSR (capped at 50%, meaning a 20s skill will never take less than 10s to recharge):
 * 4% + 32% = 36% happening
 * 64% not happening
 * w00t, I was bored. :D --NIN37 13:18, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

40/40 Sets without attributes?
Is it possible for a WoH monk to swap to protection 40/40 and then cast guardian and then swap back? Without having 9 in protection prayers would the 40/40 set work? --68.52.164.153 20:52, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, the attribute requirements only apply to the specific stat line they are on. For example, if you don't meet a staff's attribute requirement, you won't deal full damage, but you will still receive the full energy bonus, the full HSR bonus and benefit from all of the staff's upgrade components. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But, if you use a focus that gives 12 energy and you don't meet the requirement for, you only gain 6 energy. Daeheru 14:56, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Lulwut
With a doubled 20% chance for activation of HCT or HSR, the total chance of getting the bonus at least once is 36%.

20 + 20 = 36 Now let's try and get an answer from someone who's not a complete retard. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:90.210.113.156 (talk).


 * The "doubled" part is misleading, I've rephrased the paragraph in question for clarity. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:18, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Granted the wording was misleading, the math isn't too hard to figure out. 1/5+(4/5)*(1/5)=9/25=36%. <>Sparky, the Tainted 15:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

where might i find a 40 / 40 set for an earth elementalist on the cheap ?
I have been perusing the trophy collectors and I can't seem to find a 40/40 earth magic set. I can easily find a 20/20 offhand (can 20/20 term be applied to single item?) Anyway, I do not seem to be able to find a main hander that has the HSR/HCT bonus. I still have to eat humble pie and say I'm a noob when it comes to the game, and the example wiki page for the 40 / 40 shows a "green" item pair that looks like it must be from the same end game content, or from the same mob dropping multiple items. I guess my question in a nutshell is this: Can I save gold (which I'm as poor as they come) and obtain a 40 / 40 set via collectors and trophies, or even paying 5k (gasp/gulp) to get a weaponsmith to create it for me? Or are they only available as green items? I do play some pvP in fort aspenwood on a ranger - and as I complete my earth elementalist pvE quests I'm wondering is there a clear advantage for the 40/40 set in pvE, or for use on a hero, or are they mainly for PVP guild vs. guild type play? Why go 40 / 40 is probably distilling my question down to it's greatest clairty. Can someone explain via example or discussion where and on what character types this is best utilized, and why? I would think a hero could make very good use of this because the AI is so fast; However, maybe it's situational, in which case I'm as lost as ever! thank you for kind helps!cecil 09:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This response is coming a bit late, cecil, but hopefully it will help. First, for your second question, the reason for using a 40/40 set in PVE is for the most part the same reason for using it in PVP. Using a 40/40 set reduces both the cast time and recharge time of your spells allowing you to use your spells more frequently and thus increasing your overall damage/healing output. However, you will hear about 40/40 sets in PVP much more often than PVE for two reasons. First, PVP is often played with a much higher level of skill than PVE and leaves less room for subpar equipment. Thus, while in PVE you can often get away with fairly useless weapons, in PVP having a powerful weapon set is often a requirement. Second, the 40/40 gives the user a chance to massively reduce casting time, thus leaving less chance for being interrupted. However, this is only a major concern in PVP (usually in reference to interrupting resurrection skills with long cast times) as there are only a few enemies in PVE with skill interruption.
 * Now as for obtaining a 40/40 set, there are usually only three ways. If it's a pvp character, just unlock the required mods and make the weapon. If it's a pve character, you can either get a 40/40 green set, or you can acquire (either through drops or from buying off players) the weapon mods necessary for the 40/40 set and attach the mods to an appropriate wand and focus. Now, based on your comment, I'll assume your character is a PVE character. If you wish to get a green 40/40 earth set, you'll need Droknar's Earth Scepter and either Droknar's Earth Focus or Joffs' Focus (click on the links for information on where to obtain them). If you decide to make the 40/40 set yourself, you will need an inscribable earth wand and an inscribable earth focus. Attach an "Aptitude Not Attitude" inscription and a Wand Wrapping of Memory to the wand, and attach a "Forget Me Not" inscription and a Focus Core of Aptitude to the focus. If you have any other questions, let me know. :) Blood Red Giant 14:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There are no collectors that offer a 20/20 wand. :(
 * You can either craft (a not very cheap) one from Gertrud or Telamon ( + 40 [[Image:Iron Ingot.png|Iron Ingot(s)|18px]] + 6 [[Image:Pile of Glittering Dust.png|19px|Pile(s) of Glittering Dust]]) or farm monsters until they drop the required components (end game areas of Nightfall/Eye of the North would be a better choice, since Prophecies/Factions lack "inscriptions", rendering Wand Wrappings useless and forcing you to have to hope all mods will come in a single weapon). Buying from other players would be another (usually not cheap either) option. --NIN37 13:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

List?
Perhaps we should compose a list of greens that would offer the 40/40 effect? It might prove useful to someone who needs to find a 40/40 but would rather hunt for the weapon mods. Apple Love 00:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I second this. However, I doubt it'll happen since there are already lists of all green items for any given profession. For example, here is a link for all elementalist greens. One could just use this list, go to the section of green wands or focuses of the desired linked attribute, and then find an item with the desired mods (of Memory for wands and of Aptitude for focuses.) ~  M  ervil     [[Image:User_Mervil_Sig.png]] 21:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If there's still interest in this, I'd like to put it together. I think it would go well with this page, either expanding on the acquisition section, or as a new page linked to from the acquisition section. I was thinking a page along the lines of Profession -> Attribute -> Available wands -> Available focuses. But, there's also the possibility of creating at least some of the 40/40 sets with collector's items, would that be best left to the reader to click through to the unique item, or included in the page? Thoughts? Freedom Bound 17:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Just for teh fun
Templified! Lol.. -- Karasu (talk) 15:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks a lot better. Can that go in the page? Freedom Bound 16:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it does look much better, I edited the page to include this rather than the image example, anyone can revert it if they wish. ~ Ryuu Desu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 16:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks many times better. GJ. Blood Red Giant 16:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This seems like an awesome template to use in the pages for each unique weapon, instead of the text description we currently have. Blood Red Giant 19:09, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do I smell a new project? // HeavenMonkey [[Image:User HeavenMonkey signature.png]] 19:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't tell Shana Something! He just got finished with those! But, I agree, these are much cleaner and nicer. Freedom Bound 19:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Only problem I see is the policy for weapons is to have them listed the way they currently are. Drogo Boffin 19:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was actually going to propose a project to change all images listing item stats into the text template form, in order to make the item information more easily copy / pasteable, as well as save server information space, if no one else has in a few days I'll likely go through with it. ~ Ryuu Desu [[Image:User_Ryuu_Desu_Sig.png]][  Talk | Contributions  ] 20:28, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok.. the example doesn't work anymore because the image got deleted xD. I LOVE what HeavenMonkey did with them, I just started with the idea of bringing the template from GWAuctions.org to here. I'll ask you guys to discuss wether we can use this to replace some of the item info TEXT with this on the template page. It might break some thing but on the other hand it might inprove data (like adding tags to fields). --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 09:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I do not know if this would be against the rules, but why don't we change just one of the weapon pages to the new template; that way the community can see if they like it better before deciding on a possible change in policy. Blood Red Giant Mani Mortus 15:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Examples are running on and each    (stolen from Template_Talk:Item info) Freedom Bound 16:21, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Very nice looking, clean- and concise information - I like it very much! I don't think community would have a huge problem with BRG's RD's and freedom's suggestions. as it is a very clean and nice looking graphic. cecil 19:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for teaching me about the 40/40 mechanics, and reasons for its use
I just wanted to thank Giant and others for taking the time to patiently explain the reasoning behind the 40/40 set, explaining what is involved in obtaining the items I am looking for, and the always friendly and kind help that many of you provide. I confess having not tried GW: Prophecies that I am missing a lot of opportunities for green item drops that would be useful for putting discussed set together. I think that should be my next area of focus, completing GW: Prophecies. I am missing a great deal having not attempted that portion of the game yet.

The ideas for making the green items more easily accessible for a particular wiki page (I do confess that I don't reference them other than by name in my wiki chat) is encouraged by this user. Thank you again kind community users for your kind helps! - I find someone (usually 90 percent of the time) has a very very concise and logically sound answer for me. I more often than not, learn something I didn't know before. That's stellar assistance and very very much appreciated by this novice (noob) user! cecil 19:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That definitely put a smile on my face. I am glad we could help, Cecil. Blood Red Giant Mani Mortus 19:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Not Normal
Why don't it share the +60 health like its brethren has? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:90.212.143.48 (talk).
 * Not sure I understand the question. There are a variety of different mods for each weapon type, each has its strengths and weaknesses, depending upon the role you want to play, skills you want to use, etc. +60 health on a staff would require the use of a perfect hale staff head and a perfect staff wrapping of fortitude, meaning that you couldn't use, for example, an insightful (+5 energy) staff head, or an enchanting staff wrapping (+20 enchant duration). Freedom Bound 12:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Gertrud & Telamon save the day
I never edited a wiki before, so I'm holding off for now, but could someone please mention in the article that you can buy the 20/20 wands and focus items that make a specific set from crafters Gertrud (in Vasburg Armory) and Telamon (in Leviathan Pits)? It costs 5K + some common materials. I think this would save a lot of time, effort and possibly money for people needing them. I know this from my own experience when I was desperate to get a 40/40 curses set and I did eventually, but after a week or so, when I could have gotten it in minutes had I known of the above NPCs.

Thanks!
 * There are big lists of collectors and the weapons they sell. Just look their for your profession (Under Quick links I think). Also a lot of people prefer making their own sets with the correct upgrades and a skin of their choice. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 15:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that that's exactly what's linked under the acquisition section.... Sure, it's an extra step, but the links are there. Freedom Bound 22:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Of Enchanting?
Is it possible to have a 40/40 set Of Enchanting, to have a 20% longer enchantment time as well? - Brian Kendig 04:17, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Of Enchanting is a suffix mod, and only available on weapons that do not have the capability to be 20/20 anyway (swords, spears, and axes are limited to 10% across all skills with an inscription of "Don't Think Twice", the other enchanting weapons (staves, bows, hammers) are two handed). There is no Of Enchanting mod for a wand (or focus). -- FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 13:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The 20/50 and other recharge combinations
I had been mulling this about today and thought I would share what I was thinking. I sometimes find that, with certain characters and builds, I don't mind so much if a spell takes a while to cast, but I absolutely need to have it back as quickly as possible. The 40/40 is obviously a powerful gear combination for facilitating this, but I had noticed that it is possible to slightly improve upon recharge time, if you are willing to sacrifice your chances at a HCT. What this requires is dropping the Aptitude Not Attitude inscription from your weapon and replacing it with the much maligned Let the Memory Live Again. In real terms, the gain is minimal. You give up 18% chance at HCT (and all chance for a double HCT), while your chances of halving spell recharge increase from 36% to 42.4%. Because recharge is capped at 50%, there is no additional benefit from having three recharge mods. Most casters aren't likely to find this useful. One exception might be the Mesmer, who can naturally boost his own casting time and has plenty of incentive to have interrupts ready at all times. This may actually be a better idea for noncasters using certain farming builds, particularly those implementing Vengeful Was Khanhei or Sliver Armor to deal damage while other skills keep them safe (and presumably not interruptable). Short durations and long recharge times make additional uses much more attractive. Assassins are probably not likely to rely overly on spells from their own line without a better means of recharge, but a 10/30 set geared to all spells might prove handy to them. Most Assassin spells are already quick (1/4 - 1 second casting time), so casting time isn't much of an issue. SarielV 14:46, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

So they just killed this?
May 21 update? 68.41.167.193 04:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the nerf didn't touch this. Read the developer updates for more details. 58.106.158.34 05:23, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Percentages again
There seems to be continued confusion about the chances of particular events. Here are all 16 possibilities:

! colspan=2 | Results !! Chances !! colspan=2 | Summary !! colspan=4 | Mods triggered !Cast !! Recharge !! Chance !! Cast !! Recharge !! Wand HSR !! Wand HCT !! Focus HSR !! Focus HCT
 * - style="background:gray; color:white;"
 * - style="background:lightgray;"
 * QCT || HSR || 0.16% || 2 || 2 || HSR || HCT || HSR || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 1 || 2 || HSR || HCT || HSR || No
 * QCT || HSR || 0.64% || 2 || 1 || HSR || HCT || No || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || HSR || HCT || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 1 || 2 || HSR || No || HSR || HCT
 * No || HSR || 2.56% || No || 2 || HSR || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || HSR || No || No || HCT
 * No || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || HSR || No || No || No
 * QCT || HSR || 0.64% || 2 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || No
 * QCT || No || 2.56% || 2 || No || No || HCT || No || HCT
 * HCT || No || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || HCT || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || No || HSR || HCT
 * No || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || No || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || No || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || No || No || HCT
 * No || No || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * QCT || HSR || 0.64% || 2 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || No
 * QCT || No || 2.56% || 2 || No || No || HCT || No || HCT
 * HCT || No || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || HCT || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || No || HSR || HCT
 * No || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || No || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || No || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || No || No || HCT
 * No || No || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * No || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || No || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || No || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || No || No || HCT
 * No || No || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * No || No || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * }

The easiest one to compare is that nothing happens, which is 40.96% = 80%*80%*80%*80%
 * There's an 80% that the Wand HSR does not trigger.
 * There's an 80% that the Focus HSR does not trigger.
 * There's an 80% that the Wand HCT does not trigger.
 * There's an 80% that the Focus HCT does not trigger.

The second easy comparison point is QCT only, which is 20% of HCT on both weapons and 80% that HSR fails on both, or 2.56% = 20%*20%*80%*80%

And to be completely thorough, the remaining events are:
 * HSR only: 23.04 = 10.24+10.24+2.56
 * HCT only: 20.48 = 10.24+10.24
 * HCT & HSR: 11.52 = 2.56+2.56+2.56+2.56+0.64+0.64
 * QCT only: 2.56 = 2.56 (only one way)
 * QCT & HSR: 1.44 = 0.64+0.64+0.16

Accordingly, I'm reverting to the previous version, which matches the above calculations. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 10:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay. so i'm a math noob, but, shouldnt HCT and HSR both have the same chance of activating? they both have 2 mods that can activate them... I see no difference between them, so their shouldnt be a difference in the outcome. They should both be either 36 or 32. ||   Dark  Mugen  13:57, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I figured it out... NVM... (has to do with the HSR cap) <font color="Black">||   <font color="Black">Dark  <font color="Black">Mugen  14:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Percentages, after confirming no more QCT
Alright, let's see how to fix this now QCT is out of the picture. Add the 0.16% (HCT1&2 + HSR1&2), 0.64% (HCT1&2 + HSR1) and 0.64% (HCT1&2 + HSR2) to the HCT & HSR percentages (11.52+0.16+0.64x2=12.96%); add the 2.56% (HCT1&2) to HCT only (20.48+2.56=23.04%). Judas 01:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The full table, without QCT



! colspan=2 | Results !! Chances !! colspan=2 | Summary !! colspan=4 | Mods triggered !Cast !! Recharge !! Chance !! Cast !! Recharge !! Wand HSR !! Wand HCT !! Focus HSR !! Focus HCT
 * - style="background:darkblue; color:gold;"
 * - style="background:lightblue;"
 * HCT || HSR || 0.16% || 2 || 2 || HSR || HCT || HSR || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 1 || 2 || HSR || HCT || HSR || No
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 2 || 1 || HSR || HCT || No || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || HSR || HCT || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 1 || 2 || HSR || No || HSR || HCT
 * red || HSR || 2.56% || No || 2 || HSR || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || HSR || No || No || HCT
 * red|| HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || HSR || No || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 2 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || No
 * HCT || red || 2.56% || 2 || No || No || HCT || No || HCT
 * HCT || red || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || HCT || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || No || HSR || HCT
 * red || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || No || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || red || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || No || No || HCT
 * red || red || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * HCT || HSR || 0.64% || 2 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || HCT
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || HCT || HSR || No
 * HCT || red || 2.56% || 2 || No || No || HCT || No || HCT
 * HCT || red || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || HCT || No || No
 * HCT || HSR || 2.56% || 1 || 1 || No || No || HSR || HCT
 * red || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || No || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || red || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || No || No || HCT
 * red || red || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * red || HSR || 10.24% || No || 1 || No || No || HSR || No
 * HCT || red || 10.24% || 1 || No || No || No || No || HCT
 * red || red || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * red || red || 40.96% || No || No || No || No || No || No
 * }
 * }


 * — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 01:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC)