Talk:Stonefist Insignia

stackable?
so if someone has 3 stonefist insignias, does that mean that kd time is increased by 3 seconds? because it says global, maximum 3 seconds, but it also says non-stacking &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.114.128 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC).
 * The time someone is knocked down cannot be increased over 3 seconds by a Stonefist insignia. That means that if you do normally a 2 second-knockdown, you will do a 3 second-knockdown with Stonefist insignia; but if you have a 3 second-knockdown, the Stonefist insignia cannot increase the knockdown to 4 seconds. And "non-stacking" means that you can put as many insignias you want on your armor but just one will take effect. poke | talk 19:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The whole chart dealy bob thing has the description unde ALL armor pieces, I took this as: it needs all armor pieces to have this insignia in order to work, in other words, you must have 5 stonefist and then you'll recieve the gain. it's like that one insignia where it gives you +20 armor vs. ele [req 13 str], you need it on all armor pieces, right???????????????????????????????? Please make the chart less-misleading. Imply that it's not stacking, but don't make the description under all armor pieces, separate armor pieces as done with Tormentor's Insignia for necro.--Ʀєʟʟɑ 06:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There are two types of insignia - ones that are local, and ones that are global. The global insignia (ie. stonefist, bloodstained) only need to be placed on one piece of armor to have the effect for the character. They typically affect skills used by the wearer. The local ones (like Centurion's Insignia) provide an armor bonus to the wearer when the particular piece of armor is struck in combat. Functionally, if you want the bonus from an insignia to affect every skill you cast, then you only need one. If you want the bonus to protect you from every attack against you, then you need to wear all 5. To my knowledge, stonefist and bloodstained are the only two global insignia that affect your skills. At one time, Knight's Insignia worked this way, but A-Net nerfed that to remove the advantage that Warriors had by wearing multiple damage reducers in PvP. 64.32.249.154 15:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt one can seriously say that nearly all warrior builds do KD...I think thats a bad note.--Ryudo 05:39, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

(rs) "As most PvP warrior builds use some form of knockdown (Shock, Bull's Strike, hammer skills), Stonefists are used by almost every warrior in PvP" Im thinking of just rewording this as " As knockdown is often used in pvp, its very common for pvp warriors to use this insignia." I dunno, something about current wording just seems off to me. Not like one can really take a list of all the warriors in all the various pvp types. Opinions?--Ryudo 19:33, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I like that wording. Even sword warriors have stonefist for bulls. - Auron 19:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * GvG/HA != almost all warriors. Actually pretty sure its in the minority--Ryudo 19:37, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * PvP = all forms. Bull's strike is run in RA and TA, and hammer warriors are very common in TA. A warrior who isn't a dumbass will be running stonefist 100% of the time. A warrior who thinks 5 hp is a better option is the one who gets curb stomped by better teams. - Auron 19:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm going throw my opinion into this. Auron's concern is keeping bad advice off wiki, correct? So rather than having a statement about what insignias/skills warriors run, why not just have the advice. i.e. taking stonefist is advised if you use knockdowns, so and so. -- mira   castillo  21:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine, change it to 'It is highly advisable to run a Stonefist Insignia, even if you only use one knockdown skill'. Napalm Flame 21:04, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The insignia already states that extends knockdowns. That's redundant to state again the obvious and should be deleted.--ShadowFog 21:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The primary arguement for this statement is use of the skill Bull's Strike, eh? Theres nothing on that skill page about it being common in pvp. Quick, someon ego fix it!!!!!!oneunoich--Ryudo 21:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry but no one can prove the use of a skill.--ShadowFog 21:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Then no one can prove use of an insignia either and the statement is void.--Ryudo 21:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats why the note should be deleted. It redundant.--ShadowFog 21:53, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * A sysop will slap my hand if I try to remove. You go ahead shadow.--Ryudo 21:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (Chuckles)We have an obsessive egotist sysop and it's name it's Auron. Lift the protection and remove the note.--ShadowFog 21:58, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Discuss it and get to a consensus and it might be possible. poke | talk 21:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Again? Gladly. Give me a min.--ShadowFog 22:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

(Puts on anti-slapping gloves)--Ryudo 22:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It occurs to me that I once again set off a chain reaction of events that again led to a user getting banned and people getting pissed. All about a year after I did it last time. Seriously, I never START with that intention, it just seems to go that way anytime I actually try to give a damn about the content on this wiki.--Ryudo 22:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * lol Ryudo. Please try again and this time stick to the theme at hand. Heres the reason:
 * "As most warrior builds in PvP use some form of knockdown (Shock, Bull's Strike, hammer skills), PvP Warriors will often equip this insignia. "
 * There's no proof of builds. This wiki doesn't document builds nor Anet. So I can interpret otherwise even disagree. This is just an opinion.--66.50.35.97 22:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Dont worry, Im sure Aurons finger is on the "ban ryudo button" at this very moment. Fact is that because hes a sysop, he can just ban people to his hearts content, and hes well liked enough to get away with it.  But your right.  Its a bad comment. After reading the page, people can make their own decision as to use this or not with their build. Its redundant, and, imho, out of the scope of this wiki.--Ryudo 22:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * just add the word "serious" to pvp and this entire arguement is over 98.199.243.39 22:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, if the current version is ok, let's drop the discussion. --JonTheMon 22:22, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you will find that Auron isn't as ban happy as you seem to think he is. He walks a fine line being a sysop, he's very opinionated, but has to let community consensus rule the content on the wiki even if he personally disagrees. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 22:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wyn missed shadows ban, and his threat of banning me for my difference of opinion trolling.--Ryudo 22:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wyn, not to be on your bad side, I understand you but if you want to talk how sweet is Auron is(ugh Im gonna be hated by her...) there's another pages for that. JonTheMoon, the version is not ok as I've stated, Auron must recognize that, lift a chin and delete the note.--66.50.35.97 22:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * While we don't document specific builds, we can give trends and advice. And Anet sorta keeps track of builds; it lists skill usages during tournaments. --JonTheMon 22:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not at all, I'm not trying to talk about how sweet Auron is, cuz quite simply, he's not, he's an *&^*$*& or something like that anyway, just saying that he's not gonna run around banning people for anything that isn't a violation of policy. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 22:54, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

"There's no proof of builds. This wiki doesn't document builds nor Anet." So you mean ANet's skill usage charts are a figment of my imagination? I'm pretty sure bull's strike has been in every GvG final of (at least) the past five mATs (october, sept, aug, july, and june). However, Bull's Strike is not a recent development - it has been run since the game came out. ANet has documented proof that it is run in the highest level of PvP in the game, the best warriors say it's one of the best skills for scoring kills, and you still disagree? I'd ask you for proof that the best warriors in the game don't run it, but since I just proved otherwise, I guess that would be a pointless request. As bin put it, there's nothing to say on this matter. Warriors run stonefist because it costs them nothing and the rewards are infinite. The alternative to running stonefist is taking a survivor insignia - a whole 5 hp. Any warrior that has graduated from elementary school maths wants additional knockdown time over the ability to survive poison for roughly half a second longer than normal. - Auron 23:22, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You have proofed that GvG players run some builds with this insignia that's it(read the "This is what I consider to be the biggest life-threatening skills in the warrior line. Basically, if you can land the knockdown,you have three seconds of bliss to do abuse that monk to death.",). Why are we talking about only GvG when in fact PvP is all arenas? That's still an opinion. Still this is you biggest flaw Auron, even the author does in fact states this is just an opinion, your own evidence even says is just an opinion. Read at the beginning:"A lot of this is opinion-based and if you don't agree with what is written here, shut up and make your own thread. ". So lift the ban and delete the note. --66.50.35.97 00:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * On the topic of the note, I think it should be mentioned because it is friendly advice to players and what to do with the insignia and I know that is not a bad thing. I didn't like how Napalm, Auron, and Mr/Ms. IP were wording the note making it seem as if every warrior in PvP use the insignia.  I think how I worded it (which is what is currently on the page) sounds find and not to bias.  I disagree with removing the note and I think we should keep the current wording :) -- Shadowphoenix  [[Image:User Shadowphoenix Necromancer.png|19x19px| Happy Halloween ]] 00:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow, what a crapstorm, also with an "NPA" attack. The wording is wrong and should be removed until further agreement by the community:

"As most warrior builds..."

Most?Please, until you represent numerical statistics and data as to your "findings" of skills used in warrior builds in all (I repeat ALL) of PvP arenas you have no way to back that up.

"...,PvP Warriors will often equip this insignia."

The same, also opinionated. That is your personal view on the matter that supposedly almost every warrior should have a knockdown in the skill bar. People who don't click to the history page, here is what Auron wrote as to the "protection":

Auron:"Protected "Stonefist Insignia": I'm dumb, evidently some people don't read talk pages"

So that means anyone can write opinionated ideas in main pages and not get removed until "discussion"? What the hell. Auron, really, if you had not protected the page and instead ask the community for a better note that helps players find what is this compatible with, none of this would have happened, besides those kind of notes or ideas are supposed to be posted in discussion not in main pages. This protection shows to me how you are frustrated in the game and take it out on the community. I suggest that the note be removed and the responsible for said quote make a topic here on just how this can be better used and why should "most" warriors use it, just like everyone else.--Wealedout 01:00, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * First of all you are coming very late to this discussion, and had you really reviewed the page history you would see that it was protected by Lemming to try to stop a revert war, and then unprotected by Auron when he felt it had been solved, only to have it start again, so he reprotected the page. Stop making assumptions. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 01:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry but, fact:Page is protected with the note inside.That's it I'm done, awful "Official wiki".--Wealedout 01:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The dispute is about whether the note should stay or go (or how it should be written) - if we were to remove it, we'd be effectively making the decision. Until we reach consensus, we stay at the status quo - that just happens to be with the note. The dispute tag is there, so anyone who notices it can join in the discussion. -- [[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 01:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for protecting on the wrong version, Wealedout. I don't know how you'll ever cope, having to wait until tomorrow to change the wording :< - Auron 02:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Why don't we compromise...
...and change the note to read "Any PvP warrior running a build with knockdown skills should consider equipping a stonefist insignia, as the extra second of knockdown can be incredibly useful." Or something like that. Because you know what? Whether or not most PvP warriors bring knockdown skills has absolutely no relevance here. This article is about the stonefist insignia, not about PvP warrior skill bars.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, I agree. All this drama over one little sentence. =P -- mira  castillo  01:51, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds fine (although does it need to be PvP-specific? I'm sure it'd be useful for PvE earth shaker warriors, for one) -- [[Image:User Brains12 Spiral.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 01:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That is better wording, Wizardboy. -- Shadowphoenix  [[Image:User Shadowphoenix Necromancer.png|19x19px| Happy Halloween ]] 02:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's look on PvXwiki for a sec. Look in the PvP vetted section, look how many builds there for warriors have bull's strike. This will take you a damn long time, since PvXwiki has technical problems FOR THE WIN =D. Point out to me all of them that don't take bull's, or some form of KD. If they are not running a meta build, or a wiki build, or a variant of anything on there, then it's more likely than not that they are bad warriors and are not to be even considered. Napalm Flame 02:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * @  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) :Hey Wizardboy, not bad wording there. If we remove the "PvP" part it will state that all kind of warriors(PvP/PvE). It will not state quantity nor opinions about what kind of Warrior should be equipping this, I'm worry still about the redudancy issue. Still, it seems good.--ShadowFog 14:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Some Cripslash warrs take Savage Slash over Bull's Strike, especially in condi-pressure builds. It's not unheard of. Misery  23:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason for that, Misery, is because they already have awesome movement control from cripslash, they don't need the knock as a snare. Instead they run an interrupt to take out guardian so they have a clean, blissful run of pressure. Napalm Flame 12:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see a need to tell everyone knockdown is on every warrior's skill bar in this article, as people have said above. Just go with what Wizardboy said, we can even remove the PvP. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 12:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Funny thing is i always have this insignia on any of my warriors armor sets so i know i always have it when i do choose to drop a KD skill on my bar.--Justice 20:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Same. You lose nothing for bringing it. I'm quite baffled by anyone opposed to putting mention of it in the article, because there simply is no reasoning to do otherwise. You lose 5hp, you gain kills. If you drop it, you gain 5hp (which doesn't even equal a second of additional life while hexed with something like faintheartedness) and lose the ability to knocklock or do real pressure. Basically, you lose your ability to kill for no gain whatsoever. Why anyone would prefer that is beyond me. - Auron 13:27, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Earthbind?
Will the Rit skills Earthbind increase the kd secs? to like 6 secs?

um no...it only adds 1 sec to kd. And neither one will increase beyond 3 seconds. no idea how u came up with 6seconds anyhow Justice 23:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

sorry to make that more clear;
 * earthbind makes all KDs a Minimum of 3 seconds.
 * Stonefist makes all KDs a "Maximum" of 3seconds.


 * so earth bind will take any kd and make it 3 seconds.
 * stonefist adds 1 second of KD and wont add anything to kds that are already at 3 seconds or more Justice 23:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you got the general effect of Stonefist and Earthbind mixed up. Earthbind doesn't make Backbreaker 3 seconds, Stonefist does. <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I forgot backbreaker had a nerf that scaled its KD length. Never meant to imply earthbind reduced any knockdown over 3 secods to 3 seconds. And by the way, if backbreaker's KD is less then 3 seconds either will increase it to 3seconds...i didnt screw it up. Justice 05:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

only on rare armor loot (in PvE)?
i remember a note about that, and so far i can tell that i got this insignia myself three times on a gold armor piece. if that note was right in think we should re-add it again. &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 16:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Do Warriors have 2 second knockdowns by default?
With 0 stonefist insignias applied, is the default knockdown duration 2 seconds? Or just 1 second? The answer to this determines how many Stonefists are needed. I've always been under the impression that warriors have 1 second knockdowns by default, and that 2 stonefist insignias were needed to boost knockdowns to the max 3 seconds. --Ulterion 13:47, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * lol. All KD's are 2 second by standard, a Stonefist increases the length to 3 seconds but cannot increase it past 3 seconds. And again, lol. --Frosty  [[Image:User Frosty Frostcharge sig.jpg|19px]] 13:51, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * lol Why lol do lol you lol lol lol so lol much lol? lol *lol thanks lol for lol the lol reply lol btw lol* --Ulterion 15:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Loling at you. --Frosty  [[Image:User Frosty Frostcharge sig.jpg|19px]] 16:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * How ironic, seeing as you're the joke. --Ulterion 17:06, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Says the one who thought warrior KD's were 1 second long and that you needed 2 stonefists! --Frosty  [[Image:User Frosty Frostcharge sig.jpg|19px]] 17:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This is obviously an old post, but Frosty, he's new. It's a common mistake. No need to be a dick about it.--71.248.161.29 00:10, 7 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay Mister Perfect "I-Know-Everything-About-GWars-The-Dedd-Gaym-Because-I'm-A-Nerd-Tard-DUUUUUR!" --Ulterion 19:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * lol noob Anonymous 20:50, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

rofl Novii 17:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

One second knockdowns
I've heard about this before, but does this happen to all enemies? If an enemy has Stun Immunity, Stonefist Insignia may cause a single second knockdown. Verifiable on the Siege Turtle: Lay down a Meteor Shower, wait 1.5 seconds, and follow-up with Ash Blast. Brambles would work, but ranged knockdowns are easiest with Elementalist secondary. MA Anathe 17:51, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Not likely. Morphy 18:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a mention here, and I remember discussions about this on GWG back from early Prophecies era talking about knocking down enemies like Giants using the Stonefist Gauntlets. Unfortunately, they spoke of unequipping and re-equipping the Stonefist gear to make it work on some targets.  This is impossible for testing in PvP circumstances, since you can only switch weapons and offhands now. MA Anathe 19:36, 25 March 2011 (UTC)