Talk:Avatar of Grenth

does the enchantment removal occur before or after the attack skill hite (for example...will reversal of fortitude take effect or not if hit by an attack skill while under the effects of this form) Killer Revan 16:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

are we sure that anomaly is correct? from what I remember of GvGs before this was nerfed into the dirt you used to be able to remove guardian/aegis every attack skill they didnt have a cover. meaning the enchantment was removed before you actually hit the foe. someone wanna check?--Coloneh 08:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with the anomaly either, but not in the same way. All attack skills need to 'hit' in order for them to be used. An attack skill that does not hit their target is not considered to be used 100%. It was activated successfully, yes - but not used successfully. (Terra Xin 00:35, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

so i herd aog sucks donkey nuts &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  04:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it would go good with daggers and death blossom. Life steal everywhere at fast attack speed. Smroz01 18:40, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * it doesn't work that way --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons 19:07, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Post Nerf
is it just me or is this skill pretty much useless now? --Lou-Saydus 17:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you'd never see an AoG build. Cold damage, first you can add a modifier to any weapon to deal cold damage.  Second, removing enchantments is quite easy with the Dervish without using an elite.  It'd be nice if it had some sort of extra bonus effect like "Every death in your area while under Avatar of Grenth will give you 5 energy."  Even then, it wouldn't be used often, but at least it'd be used.  --Eyekwah 12:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ye, I don't see why it remains nerfed after they imbabuffed Rending Touch. - Auron 12:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Pfft, it's far from fucking useless now, this is gonna be the new meta melee for fag-roll-farmway, I swear. 80.193.1.106 21:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It's a pressure beast in PvP, But I find it practically useless in PvE now, That much I stand by. Kinslayer 13:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Skill Rework
oh snap.24.47.18.113 20:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it needs a second effect(maby attack skills do 25% more damage on enchanted foes aswell aas being unblockable).(Marsc 21:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
 * When this skill ends any nearby foes below 50% health die. --74.61.209.219 22:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Every time you hit a foe with more then 50% health that foe suffers from poison, disease, and deep wound and you lose 60...40...20 health and 8...5...3 energy and suffer from bleeding. Every time you hit an enchanted foe with less then 50% health that foe loses 1 enchantment and you gain 10..30...50 health and 1...3...5 energy.
 * Every time you hit target foe, target foe dies. Come on, seriously guys?24.47.18.113 23:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Add crippling in as an effect somewhere, that would fit the "cold grasp of Grenth" idea. Aside from that, the new version of this skill looks both useless and really, really useful suddenly... I don't run into much blocking in PvE myself, but I do appreciate how useful this can be in the Arenas... --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  00:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

think gvg...to many guilds use agis..well agis is now useless and because there enchanted no stances etc will block...thus you have now got an unblockable fruntline...and rember most casters use an enchat of sorts so they fall to...expesh with only 60 ar...ok so your hp regen got nerfed but how about leting your monks do the work haha...and most of the time your only runing 2 encants on ya self and misic any way--82.34.243.68 00:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

wow.........can u say ....typo......

Nerfed to death. gg. Ojamo 20:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it is a good skill re-work. Enchantments, e.g. Reversal of Fortune, are so common in PvP that this skill is now very useful. Shield of Deflection e.g. spells doom on the target if it is attacked by a Grenth Dervish. Only unenchanted foes can protect themselves by blocking stances or wards. The strong and really creative part of this skill re-work is that all the many options to block the attacker are null and void the moment he has any enchantment active...^^ - and the cool thing is, it might also have some use in PvE. Enchantment removal was never that important there. But the guys who block most often are whirling defense mobs, and they are not always enchanted. But maybe Grenth now sees use in PvE as well, time will tell. --Longasc 22:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would love to see some bonus damage vs. enchanted foes tacked-on to your attack skills with this up, or something of the sort, but it looks to be pretty strong as it is. I don't GvG at all, so I rarely run into the "blockway" meta, but I do run into plenty of Monks just using Guardian on themselves; wouldn't mind punishing them a bit for it. Shattering Assault's good for that reason, this basicially makes it so you don't need to rip those enchantments. And Rending Touch is always there for the enchantments you really don't want to see. I think I'll give this a test in AB, just to see how it runs. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  07:03, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Life stealing from enchanted foes may be a good second effect. Elite Form. For 10...74...90 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, your attacks deal cold damage, and you steal up to 18...52...60 Health from enchanted foes. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. Forgot to sign >.< --MageMontu 12:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * there there, this change is still being evaluated. lol. personally i like it..--203.90.16.96 15:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't this be good for ading conjure frost since it deals cold damage? the advantage being you could bring a weapon with a different mod besides cold for extra damage, and a cold scythe for when this elite runs out. Just an idea though. 68.187.16.3 23:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC) Gabe


 * I don't think the dmaage type will come into much use, personally. How many people use Avatar of Melendru for it's conversion to Earth damage? (ignoring the fact that there's no earth-damage conjure to take advantage of.) --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  05:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I don't think this skill needs ANYTHING else at the moment. In PvP this Avatar is now a beast of a pressure machine.  I've already seen multiple variants of these guys running around Ladder GvG, and all over RA.  GvG AT's I've yet to see it at, but I don't give it much time.  Saw two top 100 guilds the other day fight it out on Burning Isle, one was running two D/A Grenth Derv's.  Derv's ROLLED the other team.  Personally, I've been running this build in RA a bunch and it's been doing damn well.


 * It's been doing it's job. Guardian/SoD/Prot's are like an on-switch for a target once this is up.  Disarm wouldn't be a bad skill versus Eremite's for some utility for GvG either. Gothica 01:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

NERF?
I see this as a nerf. Before this was best way to remove enchantments, now its is just a worse version of fox's promise 96.240.137.64 02:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * it was good until they nerfed it out of existence by taking the duration down to 40 seconds. This is good now as it is.24.47.18.113 19:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * yeah some where down the line it was decided that spell castors are the most important player base in the game so anything that rufles their feathers get anally nerfed, and hard. daze, enchant removal, player skill, forsieght, reaction time, use of grey matter. all nerfed in aid of our little silked claded "freinds" known as spellcastors. "ooooh, but i dont have enough armor to handle a scythe to the face"..."listen, its not my fault you decided it would be a good idea to wear a silk dress to a battle feild! ofcourse chilling victory hurts you, to be honest a healing breeze should deal a lil cold dmg to your fragile little frame as well :P"05:00, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

This skill makes little sense now
Grenth is the god of death and ice. Well, AoG has the ice part, but where is the "death"? The former enchantment stripping could be thought of as destroying life a little at a time. There's a lot of ways of "can't be blocked" and the enchantment-condition is probably not in your favor, seeing how many enchantments are unconditional dmg reduction. I see little use in PvE, since blocking is usually not an issue, and PvP, you're probably better off stripping their enchantments. Perhaps this skill should deal bonus dmg based on the number of enchantments on the target, maybe capped, but nonetheless a fair dmg boost. --8765 04:33, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

i thought grenth was the god of justice... Twiggie 18:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Why did they even nerf AoG anyway?Luke Karr

Grenth Bio69.154.18.7 00:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, grenth is justice, death and rebirth. he is in charge of death and ressurection, not just death. hes more a judge than anything. remember, hes not even in charge of the entire underworld, just the waiting area that divides the souls up.

Skill rework really badly.
I suggest something that fits the idea of Grenth being evil and icy so something like;

Every time you strike an enchanted foe, that foe moves 5..7..10% slower each time you strike them (80% max) and that foe loses 3 energy per hit, enchanted foes also cannot block your attacks ~ Tengu.
 * just no. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.193.1.106 (talk &bull; contribs) at 21:44, April 28, 2008 (UTC).
 * that would make D/A's with daggers, better e-denial then the fear me-sin (which got nerfed) .. very very very bad suggestion Close Impact 16:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just No lol --[[Image:User Wild rituals signature.png]]Wild 07:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The slowed movement is an interesting idea, but no. How about: "Every time you hit with an attack, if your target is enchanted, you steal 5..15 life. If not, that creature's movement is slowed by 5..10% (maximum 60%)" or something along those lines. Enishi
 * No. I like the idea that you're punished for having enchantments just like for Avatar of Lyssa you're punished for using skills.  It wouldn't make any sense to deal unconditional punishment with Avatar of Grenth.  Plus it would be way overpowered.  It's already very powerful as it is.  --Eyekwah 13:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Still, the life steal idea is good, and goes along well with the whole God of the Necromancers thing. It'd be a bit more useful than the can't be blocked thing...But this isn't the most underpowered elite, and it sure isn't being abused. So I doubt they'll change it. 72.81.247.139 05:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

O' really? Avatar of Lyssa has +20 max energy, Avatar of Grenth has...cold damage --_--". Don't just say stuff because you want your monk to have an easier job.-- ITAMAR     10:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Non-Elite
i completely Suggest they take this out as an Elite skill and make it regular....Because This skill is about as Useful as Dungeon maps
 * You should sign your comments. And I disagree with you, you can stack Dungeons Maps - the Maps have won. Noctarch 02:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * yea, dungeon maps are more useful. 75.61.32.166 17:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Snowball Fighting
I have to say, I'd honestly rather have that description for this avatar than what it has now. At least a free vampiric is worth it a bit more. Cedave 13:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It's Sad
That the coolest looking Derv Form is such a pathetic loser. Avatar of Grenth...the Avatar of the God of Death is the biggest pansy I know. 129.62.129.120 18:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill, like many, desperately needs a PvE version. I want to play a Dervish of Death and Justice, dammit. <_< Keneth 01:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Still no buff for this shitty....shitty skill. *sigh*
 * This needs to just be unblockabale for attack skills but deals something like at 16 mysticism +20 cold damage to nearby foes and an extra +30 cold damage if the target is enchanted, also since chilling victory is in wind prayers this wouldn't cause to many problems since you'd have to put points into 3 attributes to even try to abuse the aoe damage in PvP.(marsc 14:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC))
 * Um...your suggestion is very OP. Honestly, I think the skill should be completely reworked. I think it should steal life from enchanted vows rather than being unblockable. Something along the lines of what Nightmare Weapon does. Idk, just sounds more like Grenth to me. 75.61.32.166 19:52, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How about for each hit +X Cold Damage is added to the next attack (add a cap to it), Unblockable if foes is enchanted, and when the form ends foe takes +X damage for how many attacks were successful.

Finally fixed
Took Anet long enough. Either way, I hope it gets a pve/pvp split next week. 24.26.253.105 21:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Nice! This was the only crap avatar in pve imo... Jaian Avery 03:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * this is an interesting buff... I am looking foward to what it does... 20 health steal on every hit... +5 with a vamp... +cold damage, +extra damage from Conjure Frost... could be fun! SabreWolf 04:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hamana hamana hamana hamana...o_O [[Image:User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]] Wandering Traveler  04:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Would be great to see at least a little bit of this overflow into the PvP version, but hey, it's still quite nice. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  05:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have AoHM active as well as this, would your attacks deal cold or holy damage? I ask because obviously if AoHM overwrites the cold damage there would be no reason to take conjure frost.

I suppose this should be fun against destroyers... Mini Me  13:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you izzy, it's about freaking time. 24.26.253.105 15:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, this avatar finally has a use. Will go great with my heroes 75.9.232.33 18:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * To answer the question about AoHM from way back when just in case someone else has the same question, AoHM always overwrites the avatar damage type. So yes bringing conjure frost if you are running AoHM would be a waste. Nay the One and Only User Nay_the_One_and_Only_SIG.jpg 21:17, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Fun with Assassin Secondary
I just had fun with this against the practice dummies. Put this on your D/A with 16 Mysticism, 12 Daggers, Heart of Fury, Zealous Daggers, and a quick lead-off-dual combo.Ninjatek 19:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Too bad D/A with daggers chains are bad anyway.[[Image:User Ereanor sig.jpg]]reanor 21:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It feels and plays like a Spirit's Strength dagger rit really. Bonus damage on hit (but now it's life steal). It really does do its job well. With better energy management because of mysticism. --The Sins We Live By 16:19, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I used this:

If the life steal is not enough for some self-protection, you may swap the Zeal for Meditation, and non, dagger dervishes are surely not bad. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  20:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well sure u could do that...or u could just use a scythe and be hitting up to 3 people all the time like a real dervish? instead of the single target(aside from death blossom) dagger attacks.Fire and deaths 03:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * (aside from death blossom) is a pretty big deal, considering the enemies just have to be adjacent. With a scythe they also have to be in front of you. and DB hits twice. |  Nalana [[Image:User Nalana Darkling santa.jpg|19px]] Darkling  |  15:49, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Db = only hits target u are aiming at. The life steal doesnt affect the bonus dmg that your adjacent foes take.74.173.234.18 22:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Scaling?
Anyone gonna add the scaling for the life stealing?--Glory 02:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]] Wandering <font color="#D2691E">Traveler  02:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * K thanks.--Glory 02:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I was testing it out with jagged strike, lotus strike (only here because I want to be able to better maintain the energy pool while testing), and vampiric assault. The latter of which at 9 deadly arts and maxed mysticism gives a 98 or so health steal, not to mention any damage you deal besides. And as I recall, life theft slides right past damage reducing protection skills.

Damage Packets
if you deal multiple damage packets, will you steal life multiple times? can someone test? (i dont have a derv, never liked men in skirts:P)212.187.73.45 14:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)VALAR212.187.73.45 14:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * and your attacks deal cold damage and steal 5...17...20 life. Read the bold part. If you're still confused then read it around fifty more times <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  14:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean that if i use a conjure for example, the damage dealt by the conjure will be a different package and therefore i will steal life twice?VALAR212.187.73.45 14:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC) nvm idiotic question. but it would be interesting to use this with splinter and volley.....
 * Splinter has no affect on the life steal <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  14:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I tested it for you. Each attack you make steals health.  This means Sun & Moon slash steals life twice, Barrage steals life up to seven times, Twin Moon Sweep steals life twice, etc.  Effects such as Splinter Weapon, Conjure Flame, and Dark Aura (blessing) do not affect the life-stealing.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 20:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you could have two elites this + barrage would win...but volley may be decent as well :) |  Nalana [[Image:User Nalana Darkling santa.jpg|19px]] Darkling  |  15:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Dance with Scythe
Have u ever tried to dance with this in explorable area with a scythe? It looks pretty funny with asuran scythe...

M.O.X.
Any1 else noticed the face that appears on M.O.X. when he uses it?
 * Forgot to sign. Super Range Ranger Cow 18:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * old w/e dont care. I think that it could be noted that this is the only avatar that changes, actually changes how M.O.X. looks (overlook the fact that his color palate changes). His dual core (processor) power-crystal thingy, art, actually changes to that of a tormented face (the normal just looks like snow crystals or whatever you want to see it as) -/- Could be, not should. Its up in the air for whoever wants it-/- Discuss 05:40, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * God I'm slow, it is noted. :x -/- Discuss 05:53, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

How do I unlock this?
How do I unlock the PvE version of Avatar of Grenth (and also Eremite's Attack) from a Priest of Balthazar with Balthazar Faction points, for my M.O.X. to use? The Priest only lists the PvP versions of these in his list. - 207.190.50.4 02:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unlocking the PvP version will unlock the PvE version. 68.113.151.226 03:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea-it's the same skill just they work differently in PvP and PvE.

PvP-version
IMO it sucks that life stealing is removed in the pvp version. that makes this skill (and most builds relying on it) completely useless. that just realy annoys me!!
 * It used to be batshit overpowered. It removed an enchantment with each attack skill, and was usually combined with Wild Blow to make sure the attack hit.  It made targets basically unprottable, like a 90-second OoA.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 18:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He's talking about the life steal being removed from the pvp skill, not the long gone enchant removal being removed.81.152.39.173 10:22, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeh the PVP version is horrible.

PVE
I've tinkered with this a lot in pve. Avatar of Grenth + AOHM + Asuran Scan + Vampiric Scythe usually works out pretty good for me. Good DPS and you are pretty much invincible if you manage to catch a lot of adjacent enemies(Healer is pretty horrible if he can't keep you up while you are using that combo.) Not to mention that Victorious Strike + Grenth is basically like a decent heal that you can use every 4 seconds.

The only issue is that I'd like to add some form of IAS in there with it, but there just isn't enough energy for that. The only way to effectively use heart of fury is to use it later since the avatar has such a long up time. I'd also like to throw in Balthazar's Rage as well but again there is the energy issue.

^I wish you had signed so we know exactly when u made that statement. With the recent update (18/2/11) you have 2 good IAS with decent duration to use, Heart of fury and pious fury. -Wrei 110.175.241.56 12:25, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

A quick history check showed it to be September of last year. Anyway, I am personally not impressed with this Avatar. The lifesteal is nice, but the teardown trigger is the weakest to me. There are far fewer enemies in pve that are fireproof than disease proof, and bringing disease in pvp and winding up with it spreading to your own team seems kind of awkward, not to mention helpful to the other team.Guildwarsrunner 13:13, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The teardown trigger, to be honest, isn't why you'd bring Avatar of Grenth. The life-stealing, in combination with Grenth's Aura's life steal, is particularly powerful; and, if you tacked on other melee buffs like SoH, you've got one crazy powerhouse. Imagine this: Toss on GA and AoG, as well as some random flash enchantment, and then hit on an enemy with a few attacks, and then pop Twin Moon Sweep. It's not the best spike ever, but it's still surprisingly powerful, with a fairly notable amount of armor-ignoring damage. Really, it depends upon what you like to run in PvE or PvP. Zetta 05:35, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "and bringing disease in pvp and winding up with it spreading to your own team seems kind of awkward, not to mention helpful to the other team." ←Lol. It's five seconds of disease, it rarely spreads back to your team, and if it does that means it's already on the enemy. Disease is a good condition, and only bad players complain about it. A Dervish charging into the enemy's backline can inflict a constant(Stripping an ench every 5 sec ain't hard) -4 degen on anyone nearby him(In addition to all the other crap he's tossing around). If a frontline is going to carry it to your team, it'll likely wear off before or shortly after he gets there. The life steal is good, but it's not the sole reason this is elite. Remember, in terms of damage, it's weaker than a conjure, and less healing than mystic vigor(And easier to rupt than both). It's elite for the whole combination of effects.--Gerroh 03:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Not to mention, when bringing AoG, people usually take Mystic Corruption that ends Disease on your team if it does indeed spread to your side, so it's not a huge problem. 71.127.10.226 12:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

This sucks...
... enemies' lives away! The potential life steal stacking is positively delicious. 14/14 Wind/Myst and a vamp scythe yields 43 points of life stealing with GA/AoG. Add in Heart of Fury and 3 hits with every swipe, makes 129 health drained with every swing. Providing clumps on enemies are there to be wailed on, this *can be* a very, very strong avatar. Cirian 11:17, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Does this skill remove Disease?
Does Avatar of Grenth also remove preexisting Disease upon activation, similar to Tainted Flesh? --Silver Edge 15:08, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Why the nerf?
what is the point of it, tell me that. its not like disease is some super powerful condition, i mean seriously. Out of all the avatars, they feel the need to nerf this, i could understand it a lil bit more if they just decreased the life steal, but why make it that much more sucky by decreasing the disease? is no one paying attention to the fact that avatar of balthazar's secondary effect applies unconditional burning that lasts 5 seconds. 5 seconds is a long time to burn, its longer than the max duration for ray of judgment and is equivilent to 11 points put into burning arrow, or searing heat. its absurd, and AoE. they could've left avatar of grenth alone, it was hurting no one, if the lifesteal was a big deal in PvP, maybe they should split it again. but nerfing an already mediocre skill to the ground is just stupid. if the waning time spent on guild wars, it was fun to base my dervish off of grenth, regardless of how lackluster the skill was. but whats the point anymore. --Shadow of Dispair 01:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This was overpowered for being able to spread conditions in such quick, but powerful successions that Fragility pressure became extremely overpowered (not that they aren't still). That coupled with the ability to infinitely spam life-stealing was, indeed, horridly overpowered. If you're wondering what to run in PvE, there's plenty that's still OP. --<font face="Joan"> Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 01:46, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This was overpowered for being able to spread conditions in such quick, but powerful successions that Fragility pressure became extremely overpowered (not that they aren't still). That coupled with the ability to infinitely spam life-stealing was, indeed, horridly overpowered. If you're wondering what to run in PvE, there's plenty that's still OP. --<font face="Joan"> Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 01:46, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * it wasnt at all about how to be most effective, i prided myself on feeling so grenth oriented, a little bit of enjoyment that i was squeezing out of this thoroughly lifeless corpse we call guild wars. but my point still stands, could've easily split it between pvp and pve. i just wanted to have fun, but it seems thats too much to ask. --74.130.235.214 02:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Here you go. Otherwise, preference of one god or another is not justification for skill balance, PvP or PvE. --<font face="Joan"> Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 02:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * If having fun is your goal, I fail to see why this is such a problem. The decrease in duration from 5 to 3 is hard to notice in PvE, and the minor decrease in life steal is even harder to see in most instances. Regardless of amounts and durations, the life steal continues to make you a hard-to-kill target in both PvP and PvE, and spreading conditions among mobs in PvE is just as good as it was before (if the duration is a massive issue, you can always fit quicker enchantments onto your bar to make up for it). All in all, it's a minor hit to effectiveness, far from a devastating blow to the skill; if this change runs your build into the ground, perhaps you need to seriously rethink the rest of your bar. At worst, you simply destroy mobs ever-so-slightly slower than before (or become unable to destroy mobs, in which case you've been doing something terribly wrong). --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  04:55, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you're failing to see the point here, the fact is, the nerf was unnessary in PvE. Where do we draw the line between preference of a god and effectiveness of a build anyway? All the prestiege armors are just as effective as the regular versions, but other than the fact that HoM exists, people buy them because they prefer a specific look. If this game was so much about effectiveness, then everybody would be running around in grey dyed standard armor, filled to the brim with runes. Now this situation does indeed occur on a daily basis, but why do people buy elite armor? Because they feel like looking pretty, its a part of the game that build effectiveness will never be able to completely overtake. In retrospect to this whole situation, I find myself a victim of circumstance. I had to plan to have fun with a specific themed build, and in the end I was hurt when they nerfed it. It was an exageration when I said it was nerfed to the ground, but my point still stands that it could've easily been split in PvE. We don't see people running around solo'ing the underworld with nothing but Avatar Of Grenth. And even if that were the case, Shadow Form was split in the beginning. I find it funny how long it took for SF to get nerfed, but as soon as an oversight like Avatar of Grenth is OP in pvp, its bam with the nerfination. It just seems silly to me, but heck, what do I know? According to you I just need to buy Grenth's Regalia and run the PvE gimmick build. --Shadow of Dispair 05:55, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Though people we're not clearing UW with Grenths (mostly because they were busy using Terraway instead), people were using 5-Dervish Grenth teams in HA and rolling everything in sight with the strategy I described, or one similar. I'm certain that the Developer Team thought this was a sign of over-poweredness and more-than-merited an across-the-board nerf. Now, if you'd like to roll Grenth still in PvE, just make sure you run "SY!" and 7 overpowered caster heroes with overpowered defense and shutdown and I'm certain you'd not know the difference. Although Grenth was always sub-standard for PvE, nothing is preventing you from continuing to use AoG but inefficiency, mayhaps. --<font face="Joan"> Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 06:37, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The point I was trying to make, Shadow, was that (in my opinion) the nerf had very little effect in PvE. When you have access to skills like "Save Yourselves!" and Aura of Holy Might and all that other stuff, the difference between stealing 15 life per hit and stealing 12 life per hit is really unnoticeable. The decrease in Disease from 5 to 3 seconds is the biggest hit, and even that adds up to very little overall; the net effect is to make you deal ever-so-slightly less DPS, but you're likely overkilling just about everything out there already. I use AoG builds on my Dervish heroes in PvE, and I certainly didn't notice anything different from them; stuff still dies just as fast, and none of my Dervishes are dying, just like normal.
 * Your opinion is your opinion of course, but a split on AoG between PvP/PvE would be pointless; the difference in DPS is minuscule, since they only nerfed it just enough to make it more on-par with the other builds you see in PvP. To really earn a split, you'd need to totally buff the PvE version, and than players like myself would be annoyed; where's the fun in a skill that simply makes the game a yawn-fest?
 * Oh, let's not forget that this used to be a good deal different, either. I'm much happier with the current form of it, nerf or no; if you think about it, this is a nerf to a buff, so really, you just end up with a buff overall. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  07:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)