ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Communing spirits

General discussion
This is just like a card game, if something is used often in a competitive area where money or prizes are involved, it will be touched to limited or ban. Maybe if we used ridicously some of the awful skills they will get a buff, like child begging for candy...maybe not since they were already used so often Izzy just "ban"(nerf them and change them so awful so his "bosses" will stop bitching to him) them. Word to the noobs, if the skill cost 25 and last 4 uses, Izzy meant it that way so you had to stop using it, idea? Dont let the players use some skills. Since they payed good money for it instead of banning it, reduce it to rubble and let them buy that product as it is. "The product is worth what the buyer is meant to payed...No matter it's expectations". The motto of NC, GW and the guy that contributes to it's change's, Izzy. All I see is nerf the classes so the only option to play a game similar to it...GW2... I hope Im wrong and that his plans doesnt include to empty the population of GW to GW2.--ShadowFog 05:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

It would be nice seeing Ritualist spirits surviving through more then one Rodogort's Invocation in hard mode. For PvP wise, the 15-25 energy cost Commune spirits just go down to fast for them to be worth it.William Wallace 23:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * They were nerfed to death because they were abused in PvP, and now the PvE / PvP skill split has made it possible to make them competitive in PvE without making them overpowered in PvP. -- Gordon Ecker 05:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Epinephrine's Discussion
Great, this is really helpful. :/ Suggestions? -- Armond Warblade 18:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I was typing in a comment while you were. I could make suggestions skill by skill, but I think that might be silly with so much that needs to be looked at.  I think that the question of what the line is meant to do needs to be answered, and the changes made to make it viable.  I don't want to swamp them with text suggesting a whole pile of skills be retooled.


 * An example spirit is Displacement, which if maxed at 16 Communing with 15 Spawning Power (using double superior runes) will block 6 attacks before dying, and at more reasonable investment, 4 or 5 attacks. This for 15 energy, a three second activation, with a 45 second recharge, when one can also target the spirit itself.  In a 1 on 1 contest it would provide 75% blocking for less than 25% uptime (maybe 11 seconds of attacking with no IAS, granted one can kite to prolong it versus melee) but in 4on 4 or worse yet, 8 on 8 it is pointless, disappearing in a matter of seconds.  The fact that it extends to allies as well makes it die even faster in PvE with minions, pets, and NPCs using up the precious few blocks it provides.  What is it meant to do?  At present it does next to nothing for a party, a few seconds of blocking distributed across the party, with a huge down time and an awfully high cost of casting time/energy for its effect.


 * Perhaps it should be completely retooled, providing a lower rate of blocking, but only on people under the effect of a weapon spell? Should it be blocking at all, or instead function more like a Life Bond?  Perhaps it should block attacks for kiting players, or only for stationary players?  No matter what, its role needs to be determined, and then made to have a reasonable cost/benefit.  Doing it skill by skill may make little sense, in that if the whole lineup is being examined the changes need to be coordinated with each other.  I'd happily write up suggestions, but I'm not sure Izzy wants a multipage review of the whole communing lineup according to one player's perspective. --Epinephrine 18:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Because Spirits now can be killed much faster, their recast time should be reduced (drastically?) as well as their costs to buff Communing in total. They should not cost more than 15 energy as a maximum and should not have more than 3 seconds of activation time at all. Spirits that now cost 25 energy (or have a longer activation or recast time) should be reduced to 15 energy (and/or 3 seconds of activation time) and instead have 10%-25% of health sacrifice - depending on the other buffs - to balance the buff of Communing. Health loss is more playable than this high energy costs for a Ritu... This idea would also work well combined with my buff suggestion for Spawning Power (imho). A. von Rin 22:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

what about Dissonance, Disenchantment , Wanderlust and Anguish? dissonance, disenchantment and anguish , lasts for 20sec and 30 for anguish , 15 energy cost , life sac and the same spirit's lvl progression as shadowsong. Wanderlust should last like 10-15 seconds, and whenever it attacks it will knockdown the enemy (no more losing health when attacking) , and it can't strike the same enemy in a row. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:189.70.159.187 (talk).
 * the problem with ritual skills is not only that their weak, but also that every ranger can interupt ALL you're spirits easily. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:62.131.56.167 (talk).
 * I have to say that the reason communing is weak is because of the nerffs in the past. Back when Ritual Lord used to dominate GvGs, it was nerfed rightly so, and now is in anguish. I'm tempted to say that izzy will never buff the line again in fear of making another blunder. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:85.103.83.78 (talk).
 * I don't hope you are right, cause this would be like deleting a class from game (after he has nerfed the other usable but OP skills)... o.O A. von Rin 14:58, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Defensive spirits affect a wide area that exceeds bow range to begin with, and the problem with spirits in general is that they function via saturation. Paragons have the same problem.  The best way to play the class becomes to cast the same shit on recharge, putting up a wall of defense that slows things down to a boring crawl.  Turret spirits are not any more interesting.  The amount of attention that needs to be diverted to deal with spirit spam has always greatly exceeded the amount of skill needed to run it.  This is not good for the game.  Riotgear 04:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Skye Marin's Discussion
Life's range is already larger than earshot. -- Gordon Ecker 04:02, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Rit Lords are mainly PvE only right now. Those suggestions would completely kill the usefulness of Communing spirits and make Rit Lords not viable in any format. Being able to affect allies out of earshot range is what keeps them going in PvE, as it lets the spirits work without the spirits getting involved in the battle. If you make them all earshot range, the AI is going to destroy spirits as they are created. 76.89.81.150 15:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Pt's Discussion
I decided not to read the essay. --Lann 16:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The cleanup tag
I'm adding it back in. Please do not remove it without further discussion. -- NUKLEAR   IIV  20:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't the one responsible to put tags up to bring a discussion as to why they do that? They keep getting deleted because the one putting up the tag does not create a discussion as to why nor leave any messages and strangers will keep deleting seeing it as a nuisance. Like you did here, create a discussion, then leave an answer as to why you are putting it up.--ShadowFog 14:44, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

communing line
i was wonder if you and your team had any plans in changing the communing line for Rits, right now since the last big update a month ago, this line has only 3 elite. Most spirits there are high cost, and have long cast and recharge, some rituals have effects that can kill them self off within 4-5 sec of the cast, which make them not worth the slot, other skills are impractical and awkward to use. i know theres a fear that any buff to spirit in this line would mess up pvp, but this line has very little uses right now. even a buff for pve would be great. i would like to draw attention to this person's ideas. some of them would be nice to see put in.--Metal Sazz 22:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would make my day. Communing has Pain, Shadowsong...well it needs fixing. Plus Ritualist has no energy management.--ShadowFog 23:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * i would suggest bring back skills communing has lose, like bloodsong and many elites that had been move else where--Metal Sazz 23:53, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Bloodsong and elites were moved for balanced/attribute spread reasons. What is needed is to move/change existing elites that just dont make sense in today's metagame. Think outside the box!


 * Examples:
 * - - (Communing) - Elite Binding Ritual. "Create a level  Spirit. Enemy spells fail when targeting non-spirit allies earshot of Soul Twisting. Increase recharge of enemy spells cast on allies by + seconds. Soul Twisting dies after 6 seconds." For every 3 ranks in Spawning Power, Soul Twisting lasts 1 seconds longer.
 * - - (Communing) - Weapon Spell. "For  seconds, your next  binding rituals spawns at target non-spirit ally location and recharges instantly. The next time you are interrupted while holding a bundle item, your non-elite Ritualist skills are recharged and Weapon of Quickening ends."
 * - - (Communing) - Item Spell. "Hold Lingwah's ashes for up to  seconds. While you Hold his ashes, you gain  armor and cannot be interrupted. When you drop his ashes, earshot party members and spirits converts the next incoming damage (maximum ) would take to healing.
 * - - (Communing) - Elite Signet. "Spirits within earshot gain  Health. For 10 seconds, these spirits cannot lose more than % Health from any damage source, and gain health equal to the difference in damage."''

--Falconeye 06:54, 24 January 2009 (UTC)