ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Paragon/Harrier's Toss/Archive 1

youre comparing it with the wrong skills, use protectors strike as the comparison 76.26.189.65 15:01, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

this skill was made to hit foes moving, with the same activation time as power shot , it would give the foes time to stop moving and make this a waste of skill slot 189.70.153.219 20:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

This skill is only used in 1 or 2 formats as it is. Don't kill it completely. 76.89.81.150 17:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill is really fine as it is... A. von Rin 22:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Gotta agree - don't fix what ain't broken. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  21:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Too late, Izzy broke it. 76.89.81.150 00:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe because he sometimes doesn't know what he is doing? Doesn' matter. As soon as no one plays a Para anymore, he will overbuff them and afterwards nerfing begins again - that's how the story goes... -.-  A. von Rin 22:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not gonna happen. he needs to nerf a primary, rework an entire weapon line, and nerf pve skills until that happens. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  10:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't like Lann's suggestion. More cripple is not needed. Cripple is pretty crappy for a ranged attacker anyway. --Spura 15:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Cripple is pretty awesome at range. Cripshot being a perfect example. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  01:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Right and we have a spear attack that cripples, with faster recharge, lower energy cost and trigger condition that is easier to control. Thus we don't need another crippling spear attack. It would be like Slayer's Spear, useless because there are other better DW attacks, easier to trigger and cost less. Paragon needs more variety in attack skills, and the one thing that paragon lacks is damage attacks. Most of them are either elite, or +20 or +40 with a downside(3 sec cast time). The only exceptions are Blazing Spear and Harrier's Toss. --Spura 09:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And paragons need more power... because? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  19:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * They certainly don't need less. I never said more. They need more utility for one thing. Million DW attacks just sucks, and so would a crappy cripple skill--Spura 10:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Paragons need more utility? What? Are we playing the same game? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill you fail to mention, (maiming spear), requires another skill to use. There goes 1/4 your bar. --Lann 20:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But that combination provides spammable bleeding, and it makes maiming spear work 100% of the time, 5 energy cost and only 5 second recharge. This skill would apply Cripple conditionally for 10 energy and longer recharge. And yes...paragon needs more utility. Spear attacks are woefully boring and stupid. All ppl ever use is +dmg DW attacks Vicious attack and Cruel Spear. --Spura 21:07, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Paragon does not need more utility. If anything, it needs less utility. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:27, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * More utility in attack skills you blockhead. Also the skills you listed: crap, non-paragon, non-paragon, crap, crap, crap. Try harder, oh wait you can't, because paragon utility skills are crap. Don't even bother listing motivation skills. Song of Purification, Finale of Restoration, Mending refrain? Lol, are you insane, nobody uses that crap. Also heals are not utility, you should know that. Open obs mode gvg battles. The only utility paragon packs is Mirror of Disenchantment and Cry of Frustration, which are not even paragon skills. --Spura 21:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait, SoP and mending refrain arn't used in gvg? --Lann 14:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm just in "auto-ignore-anyone-without-half-a-brain-and-any-experience" mode. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, I haven't seen them in several months. Kinda makes sense not to bring elite condition removal with 2 sec cast since any condition pressure team includes rangers with dshot. Also, nuclear, are you gonna name call or actually back your stupid crap up with any evidence? Go watch 1000 GVG battles. I guarantee it, Song of Purification, Mending Refrain and Finale of Restoration won't come up more than 5 times(most likely 0 times). --Spura 11:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait, Aegis doesn't stop interupts? And paragons are primary targets for ranger interupts? WTF IS GOING ON --Lann 05:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently, you can also use any Power X interrupt(Power Spike and Power Return have short enough recharges), which Aegis doesn't stop. And Aegis stops interrupts from ranger 50% of the time. And even though Paragons are not Ranger's primary interrupt target, there's this thing called "adapting during battle" and "brains" people use. Like "hey, that paragon is removing all our conditions *switches to paragon*". The fact of the matter is, I haven't seen mending refrain since it's last nerf, I haven't seen Finale of Restoration in GvG for a long long time, and even then sporradically. I have seen Song of Purification TWICE in GvG ever since Nightfall preview weekends. The first time I've seen Song of Purification it was used against a team with Toxicity(which added -4 degen at the time) and 2 apply poison rangers along with other condition spammers. The team with Song of Purification was degened to death.
 * Claiming paras have lots of GOOD utility in motivation is loads of crap. Motivation hasn't been used since last Song and Ballad of restoration nerf. And before that, only those 2 exact skills were used and nothing else from motivation. You could hardly call healing utility. Right now, you will sporradically see paras in GvG and they are invariably P/Me with cruel spear, and mesmer utility 95% of the time. The only paragon utility skill used in GvG currently is "Brace Yourself!". Besides I was talking about needing more utility in attacks, spear mastery is boring ass crap. Bunch of DW attacks with inane conditions. Do we really need one more??? --Spura 10:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Leaving general paragon utility for a second, I am against buffing spears with more utility. they are powerful enough with ranged DW application and sword - like DPS from range. If you want more utility with paragon attacks, you need to serious lower the damage of the spear and put great penalties to DW attacks. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  19:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You didnt mention the lower armor or the cracked armor or the crappy utility. Now they are just ranged deepwound. --Lann 03:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

(reseting ident) Which is what paragons are right now. Boring ass ranged DPS bots with 1 or 2 mesmer utility skills. Lame assed ranged warrior minus all the utility warriors have(bull's strike&co.) minus soloing and split ability. Where is the fucking support class we were promised? All the goddamn commercials about paragon being the new party buffer and other lies like that. What we actually got was a purely party healing/energy buffing class with a strong weapon, which of course didn't sit too well with everyone because it was too powerful. Of course instead of nerfing damage of spear, they rather nerfed every non-shit skill in the class. Because balacing a class that is just a weapon DPS bot is easier than balancing a class with utility stuff. Anet are some of the worst designers in game industry. The expansion classes are all freaking disasters. You know how anet doesn't like too much passive defenses? First expansion, they go and make a class that works with spirits, an extremely boring and passive mechanic. Of course the offensive versions suck, but the defensive spirits kick ass. They end up nerfing all defensive spirits to the ground. You'd think they learned their lesson, right? Wrong. Next expansion they do it again. They make a class with extremely passive dynamic(area shouts and chants) and once again purely defensive. Next thing you know there's a whole lot of tears about how paragons cause long games where nobody dies. No shit, they anet designed them as such from day one! Number of enemy targeted shouts or chants on paragon = ZERO. They gave all enemy targeted shouts to warrior, they proabably don't have any idea why, even themselves. You see...'''you don't need to be a genius to figure out the following: if you are already targetting someone with spear attacks, wouldn't it be best if you could also target them with your utility shouts? Like Coward! or YAA!, You will Die!, Fear Me!? Apparently this concept is too hard for the design team at anet.''' They have paragon 0 enemy targetted shouts, bunch of defensive aoe abilities (replenish HP, energy and damage reduction) and bunch of sucky single target defensive skills. Imagine targetting enemies with spear attacks and at the same time targetting allies to save them from spikes with Angelic Protection. It's just stupid from design standpoint, even if Angelic Protection was decent. If you're monk doesn't catch the spike how will you, when your were still tossing spears at their casters just a moment ago? Class is full of stupid crap like that. Paragon is ritualist #2. Same stupid recepie: announce a support class, release the thing, with "support" turning "party wide healing and damage reduction", then smack these abilities with nerf bat for a year, because "they cause long games and introduce too much passive defenses into the game", conveniently ignoring fact that the whole situation is the result of their own design failure and that other class abilities suck. Then after a year allow some other side of the class to be half decent, allowing the class to be some other class' retarded step-brother(resto ritualis is retardo monk and spear paragon is retardo warrior). They did this crap twice. Two times. --Spura 15:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I am guessing you hate how paragons are nerfed so much? I did not bother reading your essay. Paragon's need more utility in their spear attacks, I would not mind if this knocked people down instead of extra damage. The only problem is giving an adrenaline class supreme energy management, so they get free attacks and skills, and energy back from those free skills. imo, they just need to rework leadership. --Lann 03:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, he is ranting about how horribly they were designed.  NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  13:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)