Talk:Game updates/20090611

No skill balance
WTF NO SKILL BALANCE Annoying And Deadly 23:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * AND keg farm kill ;( Annoying And Deadly
 * Goodby vaettir farmers --Johnnyrodrigues 23:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There goes ONE use for perma SF's... It's time they got to the core really Firoas. [[Image:User_firoas_decap_sig.png|19px|talk]] 23:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where the heck are the tourny points?? I think Kun Shao lost them.. and hes stalling..Sloh Em Oshun 23:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not just perma's farm vaettirs you know...--Johnnyrodrigues 23:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You expected skill balance with a regular monthly tournament update? Lynx Raven Raide 23:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

LOL juss lol--FoxPromise 23:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats exactly what I said. xD --66.157.232.29 23:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See User:Regina_Buenaobra/Journal about tourney points. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 23:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I keep laughing at every update, it's so funny SoloLovesCake [[Image:User_SoloLovesCake_RBC.png‎ ]]‎ 23:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Come on, can you find some good points about this update?... No really, can you find some?--ShadowFog 01:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Some long-time bugs have been fixed. Better than the nothing we usually get.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow this was disappointing. No skill balance at all?  Even though last months balance was small it was at least good. They didn't even try Aegis (PvP) out at 5 energy. Looks like echoes, shouts, and martial spikes will go on untamed for another month.  Mind Blast will still be dominating,  Ether Prism will continue to be > than the ritualist, and hexway is still as mindless as ever.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 02:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And still as mindlessly counterable as ever. 82.28.3.232 11:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol no --Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 11:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They should just buff PnH again, tht would fix everything amirite???--76.115.112.229 23:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean revert it and make it nonelite? Yeah, that would fix guildwars.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  00:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The End of Keg farming
After months of this going on "Why now?" 000.00.00.00 23:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's just another fail attempt for an update. Are they blind? Cant they see the real bugs that need to be fixed?? Who cares about the zcoins that the zcombat rewarded, people farmed faction with it not coins... and paragon skills affecting allies instead of party members... honestly...I'd rather let people farm at least they would play the game for some reason. --Johnnyrodrigues 23:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww - Auron 23:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I never thought I'd say this, but +1. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]] Wandering Traveler  23:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Brilliant plan, get more people to quit playing. Awesome marketing strategy for any future games you make. Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  • 23:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't really mind the change, it's something that should not have been that way in the first place (sub-standard design on Arenanet's part). But, I do criticise the time it took them to correct it.  Still, my question still stands.
 * P.S. Hey, Ghosst. 000.00.00.00 00:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like another 1 year break from guild wars... Just collecting tournament reward points now... syn // talk  00:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * blah blah blah--FoxPromise 00:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not even a matter of like or dislike. You don't let people use this for months then take it away and expect people not to simply ragequit. You would seriously have to live in a bubble to have this much of a lack of people-skills to not see the fallout from this. Each time they nerf something that lots of people are doing, they are saying, "Hey, we don't want you in the game!". Well guess what, there is a reason the saying, "be careful what you wish for", exists. Whether I personally agree with it or not is moot. Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •

More like.. WHY???? :'( I'm doing my very last vaettir run with my mesmer i guess.. -- Karasu (talk) 00:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Very true there, Ghosst. 000.00.00.00 00:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We were chatting in Sif, AD1 about Diablo II and why it still has thousands of players after, what, 15 years? Someone mentioned it's a "classic" game. Well, the simple reason is, they don't try to upset players by ruining various builds and farms every other month. If having a stable player-base was their goal, I'm sure they'd realize this. My only conclusion is that ArenaNet actually wants to not sell any more games to their existing players. It can't be the PvP aspect driving change, because Budger doesn't exist in the Battle Isles. Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * So basically playstyles that exploit bad AI and programming should not be upset? k. Pika Fan 00:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not after this much time, no. Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  • 00:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol Pika Fan again. Exploit is a synonym for use, thats exactly what we have done and thats not a bad thing and I bet that they knew we were using Budger to farm alot earlier then today, so they should have fixed it then, not months later. So it's not a problem that they "fixed" it now but the problem is that they fixed it to late. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  00:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this game is done for me. Being... you know... finished with all the campaigns, Keg Farm was really one of the few things I enjoyed doing. Now that's it's ruined I don't know how often I'll be hopping on. Hopefully GW2 releases sometime this year. 75.187.66.45 01:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought about posting an intelligent reply here, but seriously guys. ITT:    BAWWWWWWWWWW    --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So you are disappointed in GW1 but you are willing to hop the next train, GW2, by the same team, Anet, that made you dislike changes in GW1?--ShadowFog 01:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

It's called "fixing mistakes". Remember when Volkswagen Jettas used to explode when they were hit in the back? Sure, they made a couple of nice movies showcasing the phenomenon. But was that what the designers intended? I'm sure there were enough people in the movie biz QQing over how they had to actually pay for explosives for special effect car explosions, but did Volkswagen give a damn? Why do you expect ArenaNet to?  Raine  - talk  01:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I hate to "rain" on your parade (pardon the intended pun), but there aren't many people left that expect much from them anymore. TBH I haven't keg farmed for a couple of months but I don't only consider myself and what I might miss, I think about the people that (used to) play. (oh and wasn't it the Pinto that used to do that?) Ghosst</I> [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * It was the VW Jetta and the Ford something. I said Mustang in the summary, but it might've been the Pinto.  I'm not too familiar with American cars. ^ - ^"  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I wasn't aware the VW had the same problems, but yes the Pinto became the Mustang II, sort of what a Puma is. But you see, Ford came back with something better. When they thought about "nerfing" the Mustang, the customer backlash made them change their minds. Funny, they're still the only NA car company not in Bankruptcy. Again, some companies learn to pay attention to their customers and they stick around. Those that don't... Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * Diablo 2 is 9 years old, not 15. But you still have a point -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 03:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The fact remains that anet does not know how to fix their game. I have said it at least a dozen times that they nerf around the problems and not fix it. Budger isn't the problem with the keg farming. Shadow Form is the problem. Instead of fixing the problem altogether, they're removing areas it is used and pissing off ppl one at a time. Just get it over with. Invincibility is a bad thing in a survival based game, no matter where you use it. -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 03:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just lost all desire to return to Guild Wars.... -- Shadowphoenix  [[Image:User Shadowphoenix Necromancer.png|19x19px]] 03:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't terribly sure about the age of Diablo II, but thanks for the correction. But again, nerfing Shadow Form at this point will only serve to completely empty the game. It's just too late to mess with it. While they won't listen (I've worked for a game company that went down this road and went bye-bye because of it) Arenanet's best bet would be to undo this nerf and perhaps a few others that were made more for the PvP crowd. Their reputation is so tarnished now they can only hope to hold onto players. But that would require them to do something as complicated as check the chat logs in game rather than a few vocal people on a wiki, or on guru's forums. I doubt they will because it takes a big man (or woman) to admit you screwed up. Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * You mean they made the cars explode again? No, not at all! :D
 * They kept the good features of the car (remember Prophs?), not the exploding parts (i.e. kegfarm). They fixed their problem by making a better car, not by manufacturing cheap special effects props (i.e. grindfests).  Right now, GW has lots of cheap special effects, which makes filmmakers (grindwhores) happy, but does shit for the people who actually want good cars (a good game).  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  05:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @adrin: You are right, they have to nerf Shadow Form. I hate that gimmick. However, they acknowledged that perma-SF "Is such a fun thing to play", so they're not gonna nerf it in the end. You wanna know what is funny? I'm seeing a lot of names here that complain ALL THE TIME about how "GW is not what it used to be" and "GW sucks, /ragequit" because "GW was aimed at 0 grinding and now all Anet does has grind in sight"; the funny bit is that they are complaining (Read: QQing) about a nerf to a farm, which is, essentially, the definition of Grind. Go figure. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 05:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it was funny, Pre-ursan nerf, people were like "don't nerf Ursan, you'll drive away all your customers!" --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 05:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)And that's why as soon as StarCraft 2 comes out, I'm outta this rathole town once and for all. Also, not even filmmakers liked them -- the explosion, while dangerous, wasn't that impressive.  The brisance and fireball were both quite low/small.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 05:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sad thing is, that's exactly what happened, people left in droves. Ursan was a mistake to implement the way it was, but once it was in place and then taken away the same thing happened; people quit. You can't run out to Best Buy and grab a new copy of GuildWars so the playerbase won't be expanding too much. Maybe keeping that mind, the players that are left shouldn't be pissed off...
 * Raine: I think you missed what I meant there: Ford got a backlash over the Mustang II and killed it off when they listened to the people that paid there salaries.
 * Large: Because you don't like Shadow Form, the other players should suffer? That's pretty self-centered. Your wishes for how I play should be implemented because...? How I play, in an instanced, explorable area doesn't hurt you. If you try to play the old, "economy" card, remember that God (or whatever your demonination calls your particular diety) doesn't step down from wherever and "fix the stockmarket" when you invest in something that performs badly. And by that token, Arenanet should also stay away from "balancing the Ecto economy" or whatever gripe people have.
 * If there is any hope at all of anyone at Arenanet listening; you might want to rethink this attitude of, "people are having fun, let's wreck it". Every time an update rolls out, watch the chat before people leave the build. All you will see are comments like, "Oh man, what did they ruin now?". A game isn't a game when it's no longer fun. It's work. Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  • 05:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What can I say? Yes, that might be self-centered, and I'm sorry. Then again, following that logic, Because you like SF, the other player(s) that do(es)n't have to cope with it? You say that the way you play shouldn't hurt me, so I have no room to feel affected by it: however, it has happened a lot of times before, when doing Urgoz, people look for a perma-tank, hence rendering my Warrior useless. Note I'm not playing the "economy card" :P --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 05:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * People's largest complaint before the Ursan nerf was that they couldn't join groups unless they had a high enough Norn Rank. Now they complain that DoA is empty. I didn't even use Ursan when it worked, and yet I defended it, not for myself, but for others. I defend the idea of not driving what few players are left away for the same reasons, not for me and me alone. What I like and don't like doesn't matter. Ghosst</I>  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * Yes but by the same ticket, people are bound to like a farming method which gives them lots of gold/items/title points et.c. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed, especially not if it's much more effective than alternatives. This isn't supposed to be a grinding game (as much as that is possible) and to me farming at all is a little... well, it's like you're not really playing the game itself, just trying to get rewards and stuff. Now don't get me wrong, I've tried it out myself from time to time, and if that's what people want to do then that's fine by me (soloing a certain area or something should give more rewards than doing it with a whole team), but equally if that farm is giving people so much gold et.c. that it's unbalancing then that's not a good thing. I'm not saying whether any specific nerf by ANet was the right thing and I do agree that they tend to leave these things too long, but by your logic they should allow people to continue exploits if they enjoy them... Hell, people enjoyed pre-nerd Signet of Ghostly Might, that was a good laugh, so let's bring that back in! See what I mean? 82.28.3.232 11:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I just think it's comical that because one exploit/farming method got nerfed that people are willing to quit playing the game entirely. Yes, it was an easy/broken farming method, and I understand why people are mad that it got nerfed so long after the fact, but seriously. If that was all that was keeping you playing GW, then I'm surprised that you haven't found another game already. I'm sorry, but spending all your time in a game just to farm and make money...that isn't playing, that's work. -- te ro 13:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

so after reading all this i came to a conclusion: gonna be big lulzy reactions when SF gets nerfed :D <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  15:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * DoA and Ursan is a poor argument; it's bad design justifying bad design. :/  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  15:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Quitting because of broken and abused things being fixed is a retarded response to the event. Don't make characters solely for farming. See the professions' roles, see things beyond farming, open your eyes and start playing the game. Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 20:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

What was keg farming? Is there something I can read about it? thanks--Lytel 20:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's simple, try Keg farming. <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  21:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Lytel there are a few videos on youtube that can show you how the farm was done. There was also a "how to" thread on Guru. Basically, you take an assassin with Shadow Form out side of Sifhalla and pick up Budger Blackpower and take him waaaaay up north to Jaga Moraine. Then you ball up all the Spectral Vaettir and spam his kegs. You can go in and out of the area and farm it repeatedly for loot. They drop tons on golds, event items, glacial stones and mes tomes. Adrin and I made a lot of money...I got a lot of drunk mins. Thanks for the memories Budger! But seriously, I'm glad they fixed this, it really was a bug.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 21:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It was more of an overlooked gameplay feature than a bug. He worked properly, it just wasn't good for the game. I'm glad to see this farm dead, now I can delete my assassin...oh wait.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 23:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When you couldn't spam kegs from Budger in Sorrow's Furnace, I wouldn't say he was working properly in GW:EN. 66.190.15.232 00:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Hehe InfestedHydralisk, when SF will be nerved i'm gonna have a good laugh and give some "constructive" critisicm towards Anet, i'm still gonna be able to earn the same amount of gold I do now tho so thats not a problem. I see hundreds of players quit when they nerf SF, or even thousands, not me tho, i'll keep playing. It's also gonna be a trollfest on forums and possibly the wiki, if they nerf SF I would suggest to lock all pages on the wiki. When they nerf SF they should also nerf 600/smite at the same time, would be awesome to see the amount of reactions on that. Qaletaqa Hania 10:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand, can someone explain the logic behind all the butt-hurt here? If something is broken, it should be fixed quickly, but if its not fixed quickly, it becomes accepted as normal and then everyone will be angry when it is fixed? Just because everyone does it doesn't make it right. If everyone was stealing and they suddenly made a law against it, it wouldn't be wrong, would it? 156.34.47.144 17:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @156: Exactly, when they don't fix broken things fast enough we the players (not all offcourse) will start to think it's not broken and think we are using it the way they intended to. Lets take a real life example, alcohol and marijuana: Alcohol is legal in most countries, marijuana illegal, but marijuana is safer for the body then alcohol is. I've seen people die because of alcohol but not from marijuana. You can OD on alcohol but there hasn't been a case of someone OD'ing on marijuana. Not saying that you should use marijuana and/or alcohol, I don't drink alcohol and/or smoke marijuana.
 * Short version: Keg farming is the marijuana and SF is the alcohol. SF is the bigger problem. Get it? [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  00:54, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a bad metaphor and you should feel bad. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is it a bad metaphor? I tend to compare alot of things in a strange way, i'm not using it as a excuse but I have AS so that might be why it seems ok to me and not to you. So is my comparison weird? definatly. Bad? maybe, that depends on who you are. Also why should I feel bad? [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]]  Qaletaqa Hania  01:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wanted to show to 156 that bad/broken things get accepted once it has been in a community for a long time by giving a RL example of a bad thing that has been accepted. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  02:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Qaletaqa...I think (may be quite wrong though) that Jette was riffing on a quote from the illustrious Dr. Zoidberg, and I lol'd hard. Jaxgreystar 00:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

'kay... it's amusing me how many people are crying here about this change... Keg farming was an obvious exploit in the game, abused by all who have nothing better to do. So ANet decided to nerf it. What are you complaining for? It's completely meaningless to ArenaNet whether you guys continue playing the game or not, because they have already sold it to you (or rather, sold the right to play their game, while keeping the rights to change or terminate that right any time). Most likely ArenaNet will benefit for a few thousand players quitting GW since less players means less lag. ;) Seriously, if you wanna go play 'classic' games like Diablo, please do so. Nobody really care what you do with your life, but odds are that whining here is not going to help anyone or change anything. (consider this flame if you want, idc) Mediggo 06:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Slightly late, but in answer to 00.000.00.0 or whatever's question, I'd like to quote Brains: "Things get done when they're noticed", hence Ursan being erfed months later, and perma being nerfed months later, so maybe next update, Izzy or whoever will pull his head out of his his arse and realise that RoJ doesn't cause scatter. <font color="black" face="calibri"> --Saberhagen [[Image:User Saberhagen Wiki Sig5.png|19 px]] (My Talk) 21:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mediggo, you couldn't be more wrong. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 22:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

everyone wants to play lazy, nuff' said <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  23:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Good call, Kevin! + 1 cookies! 89.242.137.148 16:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Res Orbs
I didn't think they were bug. I thought that was quite a handy use, no one really uses the orbs anyway other than resing their shrine back up perhaps.--Wingsy 00:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Bring it back!!!--Bive 01:00, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Res orbs now have no use. Albrect Karew 02:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean like the shrine that makes your skills recharge 33% faster is pretty useless for classes that rely on their pips for energy management?
 * imo, make the res orb res all allies in earshot at full health and energy, and remove 15% Death Penalty (give people 5% DP per death). [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Err....you dont get DP in AB's -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 02:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He's suggesting that they add 5% DP per death. Which is stupid, I might add. 99.151.139.100 03:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is it stupid? Because having no DP creates 0 learning curve and promotes carelessness?  Yeah, okay.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  05:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is it not stupid? Because having to bring self heals creates a learning curve and promotes defenseballs? Yeah, okay. Pika Fan 05:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "you can't improve as a PvPer if all you play is AB"


 * sup? Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 06:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Raine: DP? I dont think DP will create any learning curve. Unlike some pvp formats where knocking each others brains out is the only objective(you still get to do that), if you dont know what skills to bring to AB, dont know how to cap nor how to use the mission map and radar appropriately, you lose the game anyhow.--ShadowFog 11:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Pika: Why would people need to bring self-heals or play defenseballs? At the very worst, it encourages smart party composition.  When the punishment for dying is "Onoez, res in 20 seconds", people don't think about things like getting teammates up; they just wait out the non-existent penalty.  That encourages smart, tactical decisions, right?
 * @ShadowFog: Knocking brains is the only objective in PvP with DP, tru story. Do you know why you lose if your party gets sixtied in HM?  Because that is a suitable punishment for ill-preparedness.  You wiped four+ times, game over.  "Do better next time."
 * Yeah, if you're bad at AB, you may or may not lose. If you're good, you may or may not win - it depends on the quality of your allies and opposition.  Most people that AB don't know what the fuck they're doing.  They almost never open the mission map and when they do, they just run for the nearest opposition-controlled shrine.  Honestly, a trained fish could do that.  But can bad teams win?  Absolutely!  We've won tons of matches with one (or even two) terrible allied teams.  There's strong motivation for teams to improve when they can be bad and get carried by allies.  When you're bad and win, there is no "Do better next time".
 * Adding DP isn't going to teach people tactics, but it will encourage them to not get farmed. You know, when you're stuck in your base with the other team camping your front gate, and there's a bunch of people running out into it over and over?  Yeah, DP would kill that kind of idiocy.  What about when you see the same ele getting killed over and over by mesmers because they think they can solo that shrine?  Yep, DP would say, "NO, ELE.  STOP BEING BAD."  Teams that join with no kind of heals at all and get farmed by the teams that do bring dedicated defensive characters?  DP sais hai.  It won't make people good, but it would stop allowing them to be terrible.
 * @Vili: QFT - the opposition is allowed to be terrible, so any half-decent player can use AB as an easy faction farm. If more AB players were made to be competent (even a little bit competent, like semi-decent RA player competent), then there would be more opportunity to learn technique and strategy in AB matches.  But as long as it remains like it is now ("Grenz?"  "Yep."  "Good farm."), that quote is 100% correct.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  14:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Would this discourage you from getting soloed by a monk shrine Raine? <3 <font color="#A55858">Misery  14:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I had half health and I was stuck in prage with no cancel and my monk was dead and there were four of them. :< [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  14:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ups Frosty 14:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, that'll never happen again! The res orb no longer resses NPCs. :D  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  16:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Month old conversation but I only got GW back a week ago (barely). IF DP was added to AB, people would just run away a lot more, forcing people to use kiting skills and speed boosts and would otherwise waste their bars. AB would be a lot less fun.--  anguard  23:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Merchants.
Wich merchants and wich items? I don't see any new items offered by any merchant there. Can anyone tell me what they are talking about? Qaletaqa Hania 01:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The Merchants in the Great Temple of Balthazar now offer late-game items.
 * superior id kits and superior salvage kits offered by Ai Tei -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 01:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the answer Salome. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg]] Qaletaqa Hania  02:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Hero Battle Zquest
You've learned your lesson. If you don't play Hero Battles as your main PvP mode, Anet wants you to stay away. Albrect Karew 02:03, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you get that? They reduced the reward, not increased it. Lynx Raven Raide 02:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "They reduced the reward to deter people from going to HB just for the zquest" is what the OP is saying. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sad, I loved to own all that people and making the commander title very easy; now I have no reason to play HB anymore, I don't like the metagame in that place, plus I hate running like a chicken; thats is not PvE, not PvP, it's RvR (runner versus runner) -- NeHoMaR [[Image:User_NeHoMaR_sig.jpg]] 03:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I did a Hero Battle once. I won it by random luck (my opponent was dumb) and haven't done a single Hero Battle since.  It's just such an obscure game mode that seems better suited to a RTS game. --<font color="Green">Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 08:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually quite like Hero Battles, and it's the only place where you don't have to rely on other people to win, though at the same time I do dislike the format somewhat and I certain don't like all the gimmicks and things. But hey. 82.28.3.232 11:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

RoJ Fixed?
I am hearing reports that the AI is now seeing RoJ as AoE which causes it to scatter. Can someone confirm? - SabreWolf 03:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt it honestly. Its something big enough to be mentioned in the update notes.  There have always been other factors that have made npcs move out RoJ though.  Retargeting, other AoE, fast incoming damage, etc.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 03:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Martin stated on Guru that they will fix RoJ, but they can't specify the timeline. Mystical Celestia 03:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tested. It still has no scatter effect on enemies. <font color="#AA0088">Invincible  <font color="#AA0088">Rogue [[Image:User_Invincible Rogue_siggyiggywiggy.gif]] 03:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Not happy, no points yet again
>:( --madhatter 07:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Dosnt matter just read they are going to be delayed o.O   >:( --madhatter 08:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * when do we get points? Burning Babies 13:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See User:Regina_Buenaobra/Journal about tourney points. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 13:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They're free anyway! Jesus, people are spoiled.<font color="Orange"> Firoas. [[Image:User_firoas_decap_sig.png|19px|talk]] 10:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesnt matter if they FREE or NOT, it's about asking "A" question and getting a fair reply, and funny enough once they get their reply they usaully quite HAPPY!!
 * So i suggest go check your BLOOD PRESSURE for you seem quite upset <font color="Orange"> Firoas. and last but not least what has JESUS got to do with it???? Jaba Manaka

orbs and lots of NPCS
THIS SUCKS! that was my favourite trick in ab and let better more experienced players beat noobs who didnt know about it or how it worked. it wasnt even easy because if you were near a shrine when it got recaptured your extra npcs could die so you had to time it. like no one used it only good players so it was pretty balanced Burning Babies 13:14, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, it was incredibly balanced to train four elite eles around with you. Not to mention the fact that they would all spike the same target. Albrect Karew 15:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So you needed this glitch as a 'better more experienced player' to beat 'noobs who didnt know about it'. Doesn't make sense. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 16:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The Rez Orb is really fun to rez npcs, they should bring it back quickly.--Bive 18:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If they don't bring it back then they need to turn it into something else.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 19:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Zquest Rotation
Really wish they would fix whatever they did so it doesn't loop back over covered content. Yes I am aware inevitably it must loop back around. I have absolutely zero motivation to do the same missions I got no perks for the first pass through Guardian well over a year ago a third, fourth or even tenth time. A second pass for the sake of picking up some storage space is, however, justifiable. 76.20.238.253 17:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Really wish they would fix whatever they did so it doesn't loop back over covered content. .... Yes I am aware inevitably it must loop back around. Really, now. What point are you trying to make? Pika Fan 18:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Had you bothered to read the rest I'm fine with a second pass. I can't be the only person who noticed this, it did get a bug report on guru sometime today or last night.  76.20.238.253 21:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They will inevitably come around again, but the thing is there must have been a botch with the update, cause Destruction's Depths was only a couple of days ago, and the other one was a few weeks ago. Also, they normally change at 1AM my time (AEST), but this change came with the update, so it is clearly a stuff up from their end. Lynx Raven Raide 22:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

To those saying 'fail attempt at update'...
This is a normal monthly update for the tournaments. geez, after getting them for how long now, you should come to realise they wouldnt put in massive updatable stuff with them. They may throw in the odd thing they were working on, or quick fixes, but it is usually just to update the rotations and tonics. sheesh, there is no pleasing some people... Lynx Raven Raide 22:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not when there are broken skills needing nerfed. Or broken classes.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 23:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * facepalm* this was not a skill update but the usual monthly tournament update which has be happening every month for gods know how long. Skill updates are done at different times, and the last one was done only a month ago (this one was actually late). I thought people would have realised (and gotten used to that) by now. Lynx Raven Raide 05:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LoL funny how people are always surprised and irritated by something old and well-known...i think it is called "Alzheimer's"   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 16:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, that really made me laugh. so true, so true. Lynx Raven Raide 23:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Errr...but you don't seem to understand that the normal monthly update is inclusive of a balance update. The quarterly update is a contend update, the balance update is normally included within the monthly update. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 23:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, they ... usually ... are included. still doesn't make me wonder too much, why they aren't now. there will be some reason why the skill update comes later or not at all this month. no reason to start a drama. at least not for me. sure, there are some skills that need a seeeerious nerf, but oh well, i can wait. the point is: this is an update. most of the changes are useful. it may not be complete but it's not a "fail". people should relax more ^^ and (i think) that is what Lynx Raven Raide wanted to say ;) end of transmission.   ~ D  ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 11:30, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * By Goons being Broken, are you referring to the fact that nothing Strips shouts in PvP even though there's atleast A dozen thematic skills that would make perfect sense for penalizing Shouts and stuff retro-actively or even "stripping" them entirely. ...b/c if you're talking about in PvE then STFU plz, with "Incoming" getting nerfed, there's no other D.R. to stack with "TNtF" other than "ToF" which requires atleast 2 of your Heroes to be lame bullshit Searing Flamers and the other hero to go Mez for Fevered or Extend.  And that shit gets incredibly tedious within 20 minutes... -- ilr  01:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "which requires atleast 2 of your Heroes to be lame bullshit Searing Flamers and the other hero to go Mez for Fevered or Extend."


 * Uh, what are you smoking? I've never needed anything other than a single SF ele. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 16:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A single instance of "Nearby Foes" on fire != most targets in that spawn. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 04:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Then you're not managing aggro properly or something. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 18:47, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Updated Zaishen Rewards

 * Updated the Zaishen Chest drops to replace the Phantasmal Tonic with the Automatonic for the month of June to encourage more grinding, farming, use of intentionally broken skills, and botting.

Automated Tournaments

 * Updated Automated Tournament map rotations so that [rawr] and [Zero] can manipulate the ladder more.

Bug Fixes

 * Fixed a bug that allowed players to have multiple copies of the Heroes' Ascent Zaishen Combat Quest.
 * Fixed a bug that caused effects that are conditional upon critical hits to trigger even if critical hits were prevented with a skill.
 * Fixed a bug that caused "We Shall Return!" to affect allies instead of party members.
 * Fixed a bug that caused Res Orbs to resurrect dead NPCs in Alliance Battles.
 * Failed to fix countless bugs that cause a lot of skills to be useless and a select few to become overpowered.

Miscellaneous
Grind is good for the game, k?
 * Budger Blackpowder will now wait a few seconds between dispensing Powder Kegs in Explorable Areas. This means more grinding in a game without grind.
 * The Merchants in the Great Temple of Balthazar now offer late-game items.
 * Added a confirmation box for Name Changes which we should have thoguht of the moment we invented name changes. Perhaps we wil consider decreasing the price but whatever.
 * Removed festival decorations from Kaineng Center and Shing Jea Monastery.
 * The Treasure Hunter and Wisdom title tracks now count toward Favor of the Gods.
 * Reduced the Zaishen Coin reward for the Hero Battles Zaishen Combat quest.

Guild Wars Wiki notes

 * Characters that already had multiple copies of the Heroes' Ascent Zaishen Combat Quest before this update still retain the multiple copies of the quest.
 * After this build was released, the daily Zaishen Quests were changed.
 * The "late game items" added to the merchants in the Great Temple of Balthazar are the Superior Salvage Kit and Superior Identification Kit.
 * The game is still broken.

Skill Updates

 * What balance?
 * Go play WoW already...
 * Get lost! We just moved the Korean accounts to the American servers and you're all trying to log on? GO AWAY before we find a lame excuse to perma ban you.
 * Fine! We're disconnecting the server already to save money.
 * ....Can we not? --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]] <font color="#D2691E">Wandering <font color="#D2691E">Traveler  00:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with it? There's no NPA violations and I'm not vandalizing so technically there's no problem.
 * Theres nothing wrong with it, per say, but...posting one for every update gets kinda old after a while. At least in my opinion. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]] <font color="#D2691E">Wandering <font color="#D2691E">Traveler  00:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There most certainly is something wrong with it: it's not funny. It's amazing how some people can post walls of text and still manage to not say anything at all. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 02:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Amen. And to the person that posted it and added the skills part, as I have already pointed out this is just the usual monthly tournament stuff, not a skills update. sheesh. Lynx Raven Raide 05:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice.--ShadowFog 04:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

That was not funny. 82.75.192.76 10:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And untrue. How does -nerfing- budger blackpowder's keg dropping speed promote more grinding? <font color="Orange"> Firoas. [[Image:User_firoas_decap_sig.png|19px|talk]] 10:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess people are stupid enough to keep doing that farm. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 18:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

GIL WOR
GIL WOR OWN, am i rite?