User talk:JonTheMon/Archive 3

Tabula Rasa
lemme break in this page for you <3 --rawr   04:49, 2 January 2010
 * Tabula Rasa is dead. poke | talk 15:09, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You may kill a man, but the idea lives on! NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 17:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh the game? Wasn't really referring to the sci-fi craptacular that once was :p  --rawr  [[Image:User_rawr_Sig_Image.png|18px]]  00:13, 3 January 2010
 * I knew that, just wanted to say something :D poke | talk 01:04, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * this looks much better anyway :p --rawr [[Image:User_rawr_Sig_Image.png|18px]]  10:45, 3 January 2010

Congrats
You can delete stuff now. - Mini Me   talk  21:33, 5 January 2010
 * Nice work, Jon. --User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png Wandering Traveler  21:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on sysophood =) -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 21:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 2nd. Please be my friend and don't bans me. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 21:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * What they said.--[[Image:User Oneshot O.JPG|19px]] ne shot.  22:25, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! Well deserved. -- [[File:User Ariyen sig icon.gif]] riyen ♥ 22:32, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats! Welcome to the team. — [[Image:User indochine dsk tree.png|15px]] Indochine  talk 22:37, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats Jon, welcome to the team :) -- Kakarot [[Image:User Kakarot Sig.gif|Talk]] 23:29, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats! ban and prot! (: – User Balistic Pve B d-dark.jpgalistic 23:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats. --Dominator Matrix  01:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Seven days ago, a dream was started, a hope was kindled, and a user was put forth. In response to that dream, with a spirit of hope, you, the fine editors of this wiki, have spoken. Back when I was a child, such things were unheard of. "Impossible!" they said; "foolishness" uttered others. But. Change has come. A new day comes, and with it comes that which is noble and good. The nights of darkness and fear still threaten to overcome us, but I promise you that together we shall not be overcome. The terrorism of vandals, the malice of those who would tear us apart from within, and the tension of ideas that can both build and destroy, those will not succeed.

I won't promise that I'll be perfect; neither will I promise to always be on the ball. But you do have my word that I will uphold that which has made this wiki great. Together, we shall greet the bright future.

--JonTheMon 22:36, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * *sobs madly* [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 23:29, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Spoken very well. -- [[File:User Ariyen sig icon.gif]] riyen ♥ 23:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * That's very nicely written. Good luck and have fun. -- ab.er. rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 23:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Bold Baby Undies Thnx U
I just wanted to thank you for that, I just was reading the Guild Pages Policy when I read the message. XD --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Bold Baby Undies (talk).

Deletion reasoning.
You deleted my stuff, yet not another person's who stated about the same thing, but with assassin AND monk!? May I ask your reasoning for this? And as to your reaosn, "It falls under secondary profession healing", there is no such category for the page. Kalizar,  Lord   of War
 * That very skill was already listed under the secondary professions section, so it was rather redundant. As far as why the other was not removed, it's probably because Jon noticed your edit, and not that one. Your sig needs some work, by the way, and a timestamp would be appreciated. -- FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 02:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * From his edit summary, I think he believes that info is covered in the secondary profession area of the article. Specifically the second bullet point here. --Rainith 02:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

A previous editor added in promoting healing breeze and mending. It is in the secondary profession section. (I think the same editor) added in Shadow Refuge is a good skill, that's in the secondary profession area, too. I still don't see how theirs did not get deleted, while mine did. I just don't see the reasoning behind it. Kalizar,  Lord   of War  02:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's the warrior guide, you were promoting a dervish skill in the main section, rather than the secondary profession section, which already mentioned that skill. Clearer? -- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 02:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

"Alternatively, a Warrior can combine with Assassin as secondary boosting Shadow Arts and Deadly Arts for increased mobility through shadow step, blocking capabilities and self-healing using skills like Death's Charge, Heart of Shadow, Shadow Refuge and Shroud of Distress." Is what another editor stated in the SAME exact section. Is there any difference from what I stated from what they stated? Is my point clearer? <font color="Darkred">Kalizar,  Lord   of War  02:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * First, you can use :'s to indent your replies; that helps keep the conversation flowing. Second, you are probably right that that assassin paragraph doesn't need to be there. Third, if you read the entire mending+healing breeze paragraph, you'll see that it's not actually recommended (e.g. "inexperienced") --JonTheMon 02:59, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are both mentioned in the lower section, so I've removed them both. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 03:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Kalizar

Thanks
That works, too. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound  16:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Still up...
To do this? We need to know if we have enough sysops willing to do it, in order to give it a try. Erasculio 01:42, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Files
They are orphaned, but Lacky had it tagging them correctly, but it was adding by mistake. Kaisha 03:10, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Bet me to put it up. 118.92.188.68 03:11, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * about half of those were linked by something else. --JonTheMon 03:12, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I don't see it a working idea, despite that it might be a good idea. I prefer us to do it, make sure it's "orphaned" or not. Kaisha [[File:User Kaisha Sig.png]] 03:14, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Codex Arena
Codex Arena skill rotation is reduced to 6 hours. The Codex arena skill list recording can continue(if anyone bothers) but I don't see any point in leaving them at the main Codex Arena page. --Zora 03:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

lol
you kind need to let him post something before you ban him..... given he's using a proxy, there is no way to know it's him til he does... -- Wyn  talk  06:41, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * awwww.... do I have to wait? --JonTheMon 06:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You should. Alienating newbie users is some pretty serious collateral damage, especially when I'm not even really doing anything at the moment.
 * I chuckle at the idea that this guy seems to beleive anything he says hold credence. :D --Briar 06:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is quite entertaining. It interesting witnessing children misbehaving, mine are typically well behaved so it's interesting to watch individuals older than a 7 and 9 year old misbehaving worse than children.  <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  06:48, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, been fun and all, but the morning awaits. --JonTheMon 06:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I wonder what's going through the individual's mind, I mean, to everyone else he doesn't matter, probably to most people his existence is trivia and thus would explain the childlike behavior. He has my pity.  <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  06:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

ec
Congrats, I just had my first block-conflict. ;) &mdash; Why  02:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

big skill icon
where was the problem with that one? &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 16:08, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it just seemed to me that it wasn't quite.... in the right place. Like, it's sorta redundant to the icon in the infobox, and since it's not the full size, you'd have to click on it anyway to see what you're talking about. --JonTheMon 16:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

TV says he's still blocked for a day
Just thought you should know (probably his IP). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:48, 23 February 2010  (UTC)

Discretion, 1 more chance to stop trolling
I would have to have been trolling in the first place which I wasnt. Anyway Thanks. Drogo Boffin 20:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Understand it the way that if you ever troll, you already have been warned about it before (via this block). poke | talk 23:14, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I do, but I dont troll so I wont. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 23:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Protection Log
You should protect all the images from GW001.jpg/.bmp to GW999.jpg/.bmp.<font color="Black"> --  <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 02:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Waste of time and effort tbh. – Emmett  02:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * yeaNO --JonTheMon 02:49, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Cant protect them because everytime somebody protects something if fucks up the wiki. Its what ive come to expect from Anet. [[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png]] Drogo Boffin 03:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Meh, just a thought.<font color="Black"> -- [[Image:User_Lacky_Blue_Paw_Sig.png|15px|link=User_talk:Lacky|My Talk]] <font color="#0104C6">Lacky 07:54, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Spoiled my fun
I had a very nice edit summary for that, but you reverted before I could type it. :P <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound  20:57, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Do you think we need this?
Do you think we need something like this here? Wiki:Not blog. With a lot of edits just coming down to mainly maintenance and upkeep, a lot of bored people seem to be gravitating to using the wiki like a social networking site. I know we don't have a "concrete" policy about it and it's mostly sysop discretion but at the same time it's causing disruptions lately... anyway, what do you think? -- Lania Elderfire 03:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

hi
seing as all sysops are incapable of baning areyin / kaishe i ask you to premaban me an protect my pag 127.0.0.1 23:02, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Guild page move
You've made someone a bit upset. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound  11:53, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

hai
ive already asked Emm, but you seem currently online, can you merge Neil with Neil2250?, now that i have both made. :P --Neil 19:08, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Generally the process is: have a main account, make a shortcut account, point the shortcut account to main account, stop using the shortcut account. --JonTheMon 19:08, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Example Neil: User:SR is mine <font color="Blue">Shadow <font color="Cyan">Runner  19:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Step 1 2 and 4 seem fine. but i didnt exactly get 3 O_o. help?--Neil 19:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The standard process is to redirect your shortcut account to your main account via edits from the shortcut account (edit User:Neil with Neil). --JonTheMon 19:14, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * So just slam an edit on User:Neil2250 with User:Neil ? --Neil 19:27, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, redirect User:Neil to User:Neil2250 using account Neil. --JonTheMon 19:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Done-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 10:25, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Big sigh
It's people like you who makes me wonder if contrubuting to this wiki is worth the trouble at all. I was gonna go through ALL the chests with additional info and make them into "real" pages in stead of the stubs that they, almost all, are now. But you simply HAD to be nitpicking and change my template as soon as I had started. I think I'll pass on the job now and leave them as stubs ... I lost interest. For your information, I used the template that was already there on the Obsidian Chest page, which you better go change as well as it obviously doesn't live up to your standards either. Oh, you were of course right about the additional 10%, thanks for pointing that out to me ... but that is not the point. --<span style=”font-family:Verdana;color:#3FF">Manassas  16:00, 7 April 2010 (UTC) . This is a wiki, people aren't going to agree with everything you do. If you get angry about someone changing the information for formatting, maybe "it's people like you who makes [you] wonder if contrubuting [sic] to this wiki is worth the trouble at all" .  <font color="#bb00bb" size="3px">~Celestia  16:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It just doesn't sit well with me to have an entire section devoted to lockpicks, as it has only a single sentence. That's just my opinion. If others think your template looks better, that'll be how it is. --JonTheMon 16:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Jon here, a whole section just for giving the base retention for Lockpicks seems excessive. May I also point out the clause at the base of the editing pages, "if you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it"
 * That is not the point. I could easily have agreed to that if we had just talked about it. I didn't make the template, I merely used one already in use for consistency (Obsidian Chest). The point is having a "sys op" sitting like a vulture watching the "recent changes" list just to make nitpicking changes when people try to improve on the quality of the articles. Tell me honestly that the chest pages I changed were better and more informative before I decided to improve them. I know that everything we write in here can be changed or deleted endlessly and I am fine with that, I'm just pointing to the fact that a little less elitism and a little more encouragement would draw more people to actually contributing and thus benefit the wiki as a whole. Being a "moderator" or "sys op" isn't as much about the "power" to overrrule and make changes but rather about being an ambassador to the spirit of the wiki. In that respect I feel that JonTheMon has failed in the latter by just ruthlessly changing the pages as soon as I made them in stead of talking to me about it. I think of myself as a reasonable woman open to dialogue, but I don't fancy being policed much. I have no special need to do the research and to go through all the chest pages and I certainly don't have strong opinions about how the "right" template for those pages should be. I just hope, that my reflections on how too eagerly playing wiki police risks killing peoples initiative, has given someone somewhere some food for thoughts. No hard feelings from here, I'll just go bash the head in, on some unsuspecting Torment demons in stead. --<span style=”font-family:Verdana;color:#3FF">Manassas  [[File: User Manassas Mannysig.png]] 21:20, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I would have made the same changes if I wasn't a sysop. And I was trying to improve the quality of the article, by putting the data in the right place (you did notice that I moved the lines to notes instead of simply removing them, right?). And it really wasn't a jab at what you're doing (you noticed my first edit didn't remove the lockpick section), it was just a realization at second glance that it looked off, and so I went and made a bold change to it. Apparently it was too bold, so you've brought it up here and now we're discussing it.  --JonTheMon 21:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Really now, he reverted you and many others would have done the same (myself included). There's definitely no need to say he's failed as a sysop just because he reverted something you did. --User Oneshot O.JPG neshot  21:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * i think we now have the Right to say YOU failed as a Contributer.Jons an Awesom guy.-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 21:41, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no reason at all to believe Jon is anything less. I just personally feel, that as a sysop you have an obligation beyond us "mortal" users and contributors, to be in dialogue with people who endeavour on a task of trying to drastically improve on the quality of no less than 25 articles - In stead of merely overruling. Obviously I was wrong and in that respect, I do have failed as a Contributer [sic] --<span style=”font-family:Verdana;color:#3FF">Manassas  [[File: User Manassas Mannysig.png]] 21:58, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Manassas, I think it's great that you're willing to contribute and improve the wiki - and I would say Jon agrees very much with that. Your intentions here aren't being questioned - the specific contributions you made are, and although your intentions are fine, it doesn't necessarily mean the contributions are 100% perfect. The wiki is built on people making improvements on other people's content. It's not a case of the "elite", the sysop, or "the man" going against the "lesser". Jon's sysop status has nothing to do with this situation - I think you're the only person bringing that into the discussion and into the situation as a whole. I also think you're misunderstanding the sysop role, so I'll link to Guild Wars Wiki:Adminship. In general, sysops don't have any higher say in content matters than the "ordinary" user.
 * Being a sysop doesn't give one the right to "overrule" people in content matters, but it also doesn't give them the obligation to be an ambassador or have any higher responsibility when it comes to content. -- pling User Pling sig.png 22:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I was going to comment, but pling ec'd me and actually explained everything I wanted to say. Now that we're in the middle of the "discuss" part of the "BOLD, revert, discuss cycle", how about we add a lockpick rendition entry to interactive object infobox? &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 22:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Chaoz Shinobi
Whut, you deleted my page about him when he's a big thing in Shing Jea. Please email me or meet up in game so we can discuss. Rawr 22:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the Mainspace is for documenting the game, not it's players. He's welcome to register an account, and create a user page if he wishes to share his undoubted awesomeness with the rest of the community. It does not, however, change the fact that a page in Mainspace about him is inappropriate. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  22:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Mah bad. Amina 22:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

"Trolling"
This is just ridiculous. Explain what exactly is "trolling" in that. I mean, you can even ban them with the reason that you just don't like them, or that they're stupid, and I would care less, but accusing them of trolling (in this case ;o) is just dumb, to be blunt. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 19:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * On that whole page, do you honestly think he was trying to contribute to the discussion instead of derailing it or deriding it? And I gave him a warning and even a little leeway. --JonTheMon 19:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I wouldn't think so. Very little contribution, if any IMO, with clear trolling behavior of trying to derail the conversation into something else. As far as I'm concerned, most of the useful discussions there have already taken place, and many of the sysops have already started what the consensus has decided on which is to proactively block trolls more often. -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 19:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This is why nothing works on this wiki. After a warning which did nothing, he got blocked, and immediately people are pulling out the torches and pitchforks. Its not rocket science, folks. :\ --User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png <font color="#D2691E">Wandering <font color="#D2691E">Traveler  19:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you honestly think he went to that discussion in the purpose of "derailing" it? I know KJ better than anyone of you, and even if I didn't, I'd still be as 100% sure as I am now that "derailing" or "deriding" the discussion wasn't his attention. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 19:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Leave it be, chaos. This battle is lost. Pling's proposal and Xeeron's recent unchallenged banspree basically gave all the sysops a carte blanche to ban anything and anyone at a whim. It no longer matters whether if KJ was trolling or not, but only if some sysop thought he did. Wanks! NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 20:04, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Regardless of whether he actually intended to troll, he's fucking dumb for posting a specifically off-topic section in a serious business discussion with his history. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 23:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * People just took it in a very serious way, most "off-topic" questions on that page are still very related to the question at hand, and that page is also the logical place to handle them. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 07:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

More than 8 Blocks in a Day
Your on a Roll.-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord  21:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If you count changing a block, I got to 9 with the trivia vandal. --JonTheMon 21:21, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * /Clap. When this Wikidrama has blown over.i owe you a CheezeBurger.-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 21:23, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Blocks

 * 1) (Block log); 21:16 . . JonTheMon (Talk | contribs) blocked Helium  (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 3 months (account creation disabled) (suspected sock of blocked user)
 * 2) (Block log); 21:16 . . JonTheMon (Talk | contribs) blocked Easy Cheese (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 3 months (account creation disabled) (suspected sock of blocked user)
 * 3) (Block log); 21:16 . . JonTheMon (Talk | contribs) blocked Rapidash (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 3 months (account creation disabled) (suspected sock of blocked user)
 * 4) (Block log); 21:16 . . JonTheMon (Talk | contribs) blocked SuperCooler (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 3 months (account creation disabled) (suspected sock of blocked user)
 * Is suspicion enough to block 4 users for so long? And how did you get this information? Reaper of Scythes ** User Reaper of ScythesJuggernaut1.png 21:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Check user works? -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 21:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Similar IPs, I think.--User Oneshot O.JPG neshot 21:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I used check user. --JonTheMon 21:54, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to be a troll...
but could I ask as to why you deleted the Mac Client suggestion page I had? Just curious as to what rule I broke. Taka Ragranok 22:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That isn't A) something that should go in the template namespace B) more of a suggestion than anything else, which goes in the Feedback area. --JonTheMon 23:07, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I got it figured out now. There was about three pages opening, and I got a bit confuzzled. I owe you an apology. :( Taka Ragranok 02:42, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it was deleted because it was in the Template: namespace (as opposed to the Feedback namespace, where I see you have since created a page, which is good!), and didn't have any content that was relevant to the mainspace purpose of the wiki (namely, documenting the game). [[Image:User Aiiane-a.gif|Go to Aiiane's Talk page]] (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 04:37, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

For the record
I think three months was a bit excessive. Three days, perhaps, to send across the message of "hey, calm down"; three months sends the message of "we don't want you", which sends trolls scurrying to their socks. And, since it's Nuke, he'll be annoying as fuck because he's too dumb to realize when to give up (a problem I probably have, too).

But, at the same time, the witchhunt would likely have expanded and he'd likely have gotten a three month block at some point in the near future anyway.

-- Armond Warblade 02:09, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * To be fair, someone that "doesn't get it, nor wants to attempt trying to" is not the kind of user we need (or personally want) here, so he should be happy just being a lurker, or find another place where to have fun.


 * A troll should be dealt like this ideally. After 1 year he sure didn't give rats anymore as to keep the same level of disrupting than before, and the wiki was a better place for actively contributing and discussing organization for a few months.--Fighterdoken 02:21, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) I was planning on less than that initially, but there's trolling/disruption on one hand, and intent to troll hard & vandalize on the other. So, I upped it approx. a standard increment. --JonTheMon 02:24, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Extension of Block
I thought about a week, but it was a good day, so I was in a generous mood. Two weeks? Your day must not be going as good as mine. lol &mdash; Gares 21:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I figured incrementing by 2 was fair. First, for asking for it, second for the repeat violation. --JonTheMon 21:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks.
-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord  15:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Jon beat me to it, but it looked like you were having fun, Neil. :P &mdash; Gares 15:41, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Reverting thier vandalism keeps em away from other people,i just ended up opening 3 tabs lol >_< -- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh thanks

Might be time
To protect that page, unless you happen to enjoy deleting it over and over again. :P <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound  20:03, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

deleting spree
add these two to the list? File:The Cipher of Lyssa map.jpg File:Facet of illusions123.jpg Previously Unsigned 05:31, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Thx
For helping me out with my charecters page title you get a userbox Yay Killing Charr talk 21:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

the new auron?
wow. when did you turn out to be the new auron, going ban crazy with zero reasoning? lolwut?

where did the IP ever claim to be magikarp? sure, it may type with a really odd "slang" but even i could understand what it was saying, and it clearly said "even my guild wars in-game graphics looks like magikarp's".

how does that = "trying to circumvent existing block: Claiming to be User:Strong Like Magikarp"? even i of all people have to say this was a shitty call and lacked basic admin practice skills. you're slipping, john. you're slipping. 69.162.89.226 19:01, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There is this great little thing called checkuser. The IP addy probably matched one of the IP addies magikarp used when he logged in.  -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 19:09, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * checkuser is not magical pixy dust you can just sprinkle and solve all problems. l2google ips. the ip is the united kingdom. magikarp claims to be in georgia, usa and the admins should be able to confirm that. kindly go troll somewhere else, lania.


 * my question still stands, jon. 69.162.89.226 19:14, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If you looked it up then you should know that it's also a IP addy is used by various proxy servers... Just like your IP addy, mr. sockpuppet. -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 19:22, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * those rules don't apply to me. i am shard. what i say, goes. don't change the subject. your checkuser troll was a 0/10.


 * let's stay on topic. can you explain your logic behind the block, jon? i truly am curious. 69.162.89.226 19:33, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Between tracking the conversation and trying to keep my brain from bleeding at the bad grammar, I got that the user was claiming to have taken those pictures aka is Magikarp. After looking at it again, that's not the case and I'll let another admin decide if it is Magikarp or some other blocked person. --JonTheMon 19:38, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * In any case it probably is a blocked user, considering the person is using a highly shared IP address that is used by close to 500 other hosts... . Many of them are proxy serving websites. -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 19:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * CheckUser gave me strong enough evidence to assume both and  were used by the same person as  and  so I blocked them both.  &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 23:32, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm current'y on my laptop since I've been suspended on my IP address alongside my Magikarp login. Having said that, I've been watching the entire conversation going on about me and I will say one thing: Why - You are an unbelievable liar. I have never in my life logged into my account under "special IP addresses". EVER. Why would I!? I had never had anything to hide about who I am. I know who I am, and that is NOT Lena. Any admin on this entire Wikipedia can also confirm via checkuser that you are full of it! If I am wrong and if I am lying, then I gracefully request that you post a screen of your checkuser interface saying I am "Linsey m", "83.142.230.28" and "69.162.89.226". Also, your word usage of "to assume" and "strong enough evidence" is disturbing. Check user does not give you "evidence". It gives you a pinpoint "yes" or "no" when it displays the IP logs. Thank you for lying, Why.I truly do appreciate the disrespect.


 * "Hi,


 * I came across a checkuser result that showed that you had been permabanned on User:Lolable Entrusive Naughty Aphrodisiac for circumvention, so I just assumed that you were User:Lena once again circumventing his block. User:Lena was permabanned from the wiki with good reasons, and is known to try and circumvent his block every now and then, so for me that knowledge and the checkuser report added up and led to the logical conclusion that your account was a sockpuppet of a banned user. However I'm willing to take your word that you aren't, after all, as you said, your contributions are positive. So apologies for blocking you, I should've asked pling about the original block before acting (also apologies for the delayed response, I've been rather busy) and thanks for bringing this up through the appropriate channels.


 * Hope you won't hate me for trying to do my job, and happy editing ;)"


 * For the record, I now take your entire apology that I recieved via email from you as a spit to the face. --174.49.120.131 01:09, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * My assumption is based on the fact that CheckUser reports that all those accounts have used the exact same operating system and rare browser with an identical version. I suppose there is a chance I am mistaken, however, to my knowledge, a very slim one. If you are the victim of a freak coincidence I assure you you deserve my sincerest apologies. However I will wait for the other admins to review this case before changing any of the block settings. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 01:26, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just a note on CU as well, it can only give you a definite yes (i.e. users sharing the same IP(s)), it can't give a definite no (i.e. just because 2 users don't share an IP doesn't mean they aren't the same user). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian [[Image:User_PheNaxKian_sig.jpg]] 12:14, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

You need love
Your page is mainly full of hatemail, so heres a big <S>Bug Hug :D *Hug* -- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord  18:08, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol thanks. Generally, though, I kinda expect what's coming, and I do get some praise every now and then. --JonTheMon 18:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Which you now have ^_^-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 18:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you need a cheer squad! "Go Jon Go!" "Yay Jon!".  Seriously though, you're a great admin! :-) -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 18:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

you have
caught me with my a pants down. | <font color="Red">72  (UTC) 18:20, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Lucky boy.-- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 18:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

NDA breach- so what?
I don't believe we're obligated to clean up Anet's messes for them. elix Omni 16:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If it isn't official, it isn't useful. --User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png <font color="#D2691E">Wandering <font color="#D2691E">Traveler  16:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It was on a talk page, and that makes this akin to censorship. We're not legally or morally obliged to uphold a contract between two other parties. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 16:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if this is Anet's mess, it doesn't change the fact that it is an NDA breach. I based my decision partly on the ideas around Copyvios, where there isn't much of a chance of anything happening, but we remove those anyway. Also, by leaving it there, we are implicitly encouraging NDA breaches, whereas I feel we should be discouraging them. --JonTheMon 16:31, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But an NDA breach doesn't mean anything to anyone except the parties involved. Again, copyright is protected by federal law, but the NDA is nothing but a private contract between two parties. They're not really analogous. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 01:13, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's common among all fan sites to remove any info leaked that is a NDA breach. Why should this wiki be any different?--[[Image:User Pyron Sy sig.png|19px| ]] Pyron Sy 02:33, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Because different people have different opinions? [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 02:43, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody is required to remove it. They simply do it because they aren't douchebags. They probably could sit there and say "it's not my job to clean it up," but that would make them look like lazy fuckheads, so they opt to remove the leak. - Auron 03:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Implying I'm a douchebag and lazy fuckhead is cute, but fortunately I've grown accustomed to your gruff but lovable demeanor. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 03:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not aimed at you, I have this discussion with pvx sysops (and users) all the damn time. "It's not our job, let anet do it" "who cares, everyone's seen it already," "i'm not under nda so i don't have to do anything." Well... no, you don't. None of us do. But here we are on a small wiki about a long-dead video game that none of us even play, so we might as well do what we're expected to do and move on with our lives. - Auron 05:47, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Dear Jon,
I know you're not breaking the policies, but hey, would discussing things a bit more before reverting hurt the situation? &mdash; Why 15:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Backsword doesn't discuss until he's run out of reverts. Has he ever responded on his talk page to anything? --JonTheMon 16:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

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No. He does not... -- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord  16:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a little excessive, but it gets the point across. I will admit that one of my weaknesses is a preference for the status quo, but when things are changed in a big way, I tend to be against them strongly. --JonTheMon 16:16, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * i will be excessive if it saves my jonnyboy <3 -- Nei l2250  ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:18, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh, no. Link is better, and no pet names. --JonTheMon 16:19, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Roll Over :D Aww :( -- Nei l2250  ,    Portal Jumper User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't provide people with an example of how things should be done, right? Besides, a discussion about the latest issue would be far better placed on the guideline talk page. I know you're in the right, but I'm just a bit worried about people who think you're "trolling", it doesn't really consolidate your authority for the casual observer, even though I think you're a great admin. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 16:26, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But the casual observer doesn't get a say in how the wiki is run. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 16:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ideally they should. This is a wiki, is it not? &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 16:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Meritocracy is not democracy. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 16:32, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Right, I always forget there is no GWW:YAV... &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 16:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Besides which, once a casual observer comments, he ceases to be an observer. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 16:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You have outlogic'd me. I surrender. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why]] 16:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Who wants popcorn on this beutiful victory?-- Nei l2250  ,    Portal Jumper User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:41, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Vizunah Square
Hi. You just undid the changes I made to the Vizunah Square page. So I'll state my reasons for making them.

The reason I moved the bug from the notes is because unlike the others it's not something that happens occasionally - it happens nearly all the time. As for the other bugs, I've never encountered any of them (apart from the healing the minions thing, but that happens everywhere and is easily avoided) in an awful lot of run throughs. Also, unlike the other bugs, there IS something you can do to avoid it, as I mentioned in my edit. This, plus the additional detail about Mhenlo arriving by himself with the others possibly following, is new information which you have removed.

As far as I know bugs do not have to be in the notes section only (there are plenty of other cases where they are in the main text). In my opinion such a frequent and show-stopping bug needs to be highlighted early, since a lot of people won't check the notes until after being hit by the bug.

So please respond here with your reasons if you still think this shouldn't be changed, or else I will revert back.

Dances With Goblins 16:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * First, I undid your edit because your text was an overly-large break in the walk through text. Like, it completely destroyed any continuity. Second, the note about syncing, which accurate, doesn't really help the casual player. And of course having another human-controlled team helps the mission. And even if you go by yourself and the others don't show up, you can just restart, as that is at the beginning of the mission. --JonTheMon 17:08, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I get your point about the continuity. I put it there because it relates to the first paragraph, but it could just as well go after the second one.


 * I presume you meant solo player when you said casual player. Yes, that is true and there isn't much those people can do about it. But if you are in a guild, or just have friends, then you can do it with them. What I didn't mention is that this is actually useful regardless of the bug, as many (and I do mean many) humans from the foreign quarter will immediately leave if they get a human team in local quarter.


 * The point isn't that having another human team will help the mission (in fact if it is a random team it just as likely won't). The point is that you can avoid this mission-stopping bug.


 * Yes you can restart, and yes it is at the "beginning of the mission". However, with all the waiting for timers and such, by the point you know you will have to restart you will be at least 5 minutes into the mission. This can add up fast if you have to repeat it a few times.


 * So, do you have a problem with putting the text back after the second paragraph?
 * Dances With Goblins 17:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I still don't like how big it is, and it seems like you're trying to cram too much info into the bug note. Like, since it's an AI problem, of course having people on the other side will help fix that. I guess one of my issues is where it is located; that's somewhat supplementary information to the actual guide through the mission, and really only needs to be said in the notes. --JonTheMon 18:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well in my opinion relegating very helpful information that people should know about before even starting a mission to the very bottom of the page where few will look, is frankly a bad policy. If this is a general policy for the wiki then it should probably be reviewed. Perhaps there should be a dedicated bugs section below the main mission (like there is sometimes a Hard Mode one)? I know people who will usually just glance through a mission walkthrough before starting. They will never see the bugs at the bottom of the page.


 * I agree that things should be kept as succinct as possible, but not at the expense of removing actual information. My edit appears to be full of content because that bug is not as simple as "sometimes they get stuck on the path". But I have no problem with anyone editing it providing the useful information remains. And personally I think "save yourself some restart grief, organise for a friend to be on the other team" is useful information.


 * Dances With Goblins 18:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You can always summarize a bug and point to more information in the notes section. And since this is a possibility, and not overly frequent, I don't think it needs to have more importance than the other mission-stalling possibilities. --JonTheMon 18:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually I don't think that is the case. I have done the Vizunah Square mission quite a few times (probably around 25 times, though predominantly from foreign quarter), and have never experienced any of the other bugs. On the other hand I can summarise the last 4 HM attempts from local quarter as:


 * One time everyone arrived together on cue (more or less) and everything was fine.
 * Two times Mhenlo arrived by himself on cue but the henchmen didn't arrive until after the square was clear. After that things proceeded as normal.
 * One time Mhenlo arrived on cue but the henchmen never arrived (and out of curiosity we continued on and finished 90% of the mission - they never appeared).


 * So I think this bug is different in two ways: a) it is FAR more frequent (basically happens more often than not), and b) it is avoidable with some planning.


 * As for where it belongs, I still don't agree that this information doesn't belong with the main walkthrough. Surely we should be saying "here is what you need to do, but watch out for this"?


 * Dances With Goblins 19:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Bugs belong in the notes or bugs section, it always look wierd when people put them in the middle of the walkthrough unless it's just a single line. The only other thing I would say is that linking the article somewhere in the notes section to Sync enter, would be good. The same should be done to unwaking waters. Syncing really helps for getting masters effortlessly in hardmode when no players are around. We do it all the time at our home, but I understand that not everyone has someone that plays with them in the same room. -- Lania Elderfire 19:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm going to ask again... is it a wiki policy that bugs belong in the notes section? And I'm asking honestly, because I really don't know. Personally I have no problem with important bugs being listed in the main text, and obviously prefer it.


 * That said, I have no problem with you putting a summary of the bug at the bottom of the second paragraph with a link to a more detailed version in the notes section. I mean with the number of bugs in this particular mission you could almost say "This mission is extremely bugged, see the notes for details".


 * Dances With Goblins 19:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars Wiki:Formatting/Missions. Yeah bugs do belong to the notes section.  And yeah... very very bugged mission, it's quite annoying! I can't tell you the number of times we yelled at Togo for not moving! :-)-- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 19:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Aha, thank you for that link. I don't think I've seen that page. I'll have a good read through later.


 * So are you both ok with me adding a line at the bottom of the walkthrough saying "Note, this is a very buggy mission, sometimes requiring a restart. See the notes for details.", with a link to the notes section of course. And then I'll put my expanded version of the bug in the notes?


 * Dances With Goblins 19:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah something short and concise would be okay IMO. I would just say "this is a buggy mission" rather than "very buggy" to maintain NPOV. Also keep each of your bugs short and separate each bug by a separate bug template. -- Lania Elderfire [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 19:52, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * "This is a buggy mission" doesn't sound as good as "this mission has numerous bugs". And yes, keep each of the bug notes as short as possible. --JonTheMon 20:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

User page ads
This account seems to be created solely for the purpose of linking to a thesis mill. If it were an unregistered user or in mainspace, it would obviously be deleted, but... Thoughts? <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound  13:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

dawg
you're slipping again. the purpose of any wikipedia is to keep the wikipedia as updated as possible. by your standards, (which might i regard to appear rather low) any real trivia of in-game content should not be on the wiki. Cynn's Thong 16:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Stating trivia is one thing. Putting a picture on the main page is another. --JonTheMon 16:10, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * in this particular case i must respectfully disagree. sorry, sweety poo. Cynn's Thong 16:15, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * just ridiculous | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 17:11, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

SC & other ritualist energy management
Translating into energy regen and effectively gained is very useful when when calculating effectiveness comparison to Reclaim Essence, Offering of Spirits, Signet of Spirits (PvP), Signet of Creation, Spirit Siphon, Essence Strike, Renewing Surge and other "Soft" e-skills. There are other ritualist players who would appreciate this info regarding such a energy-hungry profession. --Falconeye 18:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But why not then just say how much energy you get instead of stating it in terms of energy regen? --JonTheMon 18:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I did on the Progession table, only it was the optimized total and without the subtraction of the spell's 5 energy initial cost (figured even newbies are smart to subtract "operational costs" from their energy income)? The "pips" of energy mostly for simplified effectiveness-comparison (similar to health regenertion vs raw heals/hard prots) and to demonstrate the desired breakpoints a player may wish to achieve. Is there a better way to accomplish my intent, perhaps a page displaying the comparable effectiveness of energy-management skills? --Falconeye 23:44, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you find what you were looking for? --JonTheMon 00:44, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Found an existing Energy Management page... would expanding this be appropriate? While there are several pages listing/relating to energy, there doesnt seem to one comparing them for efficiency. --Falconeye 17:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That would probably be the most appropriate area for in-depth analysis. But I'm not sure what you're getting at for efficiency. --JonTheMon 18:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Please
Stop filling recent changes with blocks ''Wut's a sock? And who's Eavil? 21:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Extending a block
Hi Jon, I decided to extend Eavil's block to three months. Since you're the original blocking sysop I figured it'd be nice to let you know. &mdash; Why 02:16, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No prob. --JonTheMon 02:51, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

TGIF?
Wow! They're really busting your chops today. Thanks for keeping the barbarians at the gates! :) <font face="Monotype Corsiva" color="black">Sardaukar  17:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * +1 Kudos! :-), TGIF, and wiki editing @ work FTW! -- Lania [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 18:43, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Good job!
You are on a killing spree! -- Cyan  15:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Can i
Use it as my signature?--卍 15:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I would prefer that if you use it in your signature that you also have your name spelled out. So both your name and the symbol, if you truly want it. --JonTheMon 15:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering the username, it's clear that the icon is used with its offensive definition, so the icon should not be used. -- pling User Pling sig.png 16:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So i have to make a new account if i want it in my signature?--卍NeiN卍 16:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Listen, that symbol is very… offensive to certain people, I don’t know if your being honest or are a bad troll, but please realise that your kinda not aloud that as your sig.sorry.-- Neil  2250  User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:35, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That symbol is the Buddhist symbol of peace, or something like that. The swastika is a bit different... -- Unending  <font color="#e70039"> ♥  <font color="#18186b">fear  User Unendingfear Sig2.png 16:37, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Besides, you couldn't use an account with those symbols in it's name, for the same reason your first account got blocked. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk </b> 16:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Although its just interpretation, I have no doubts there will be people who think its offensive. Just play at safe, don't use the symbol. -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 16:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * (Not an edit conflict) Cyan is right, it's better to be safe than sorry. <font color="Black">Shadow <font color="Red">Runner  16:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * *sigh* Everyone can find anything offensive... -- Unending  <font color="#e70039"> ♥  <font color="#18186b">fear  User Unendingfear Sig2.png 16:43, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So it's ok? I don't have to make a new account?--卍NeiN卍 16:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's not ok, I'm going to ask that "t" be banned from the wiki because it's too close to a crucifix. -- Unending  <font color="#e70039"> ♥  <font color="#18186b">fear  User Unendingfear Sig2.png 16:45, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How do i get different colours in my signature?--卍NeiN卍 16:48, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Personaly.ive never liked the letter T. hes never been of help.-- Neil  2250  User Neil2250 sig icon6.png 16:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

@ UF: That make no sense at all, this is a different scenario and you know it. -- Cyan  16:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Cyan. Don't compare chalk and cheese, UF. No matter how cheesy the chalk might smell, or how well the cheese writes on the black board. <font color="Black">Shadow <font color="Red">Runner  16:51, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

If you don't like the Nein part in my signature i can change it, but how do i change the colours of my signature?--卍NeiN卍 16:53, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we should take our lead from the game here. The Swastika has never been allowed in the game (guild names/tags, usernames), regardless of the intent. I don't feel it should be allowed here either. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  17:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

But iv'e seen many asian players using it in their character names, is it even a Swastika?--卍NeiN卍 17:08, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree with the anti-sig. Nein, it's not so much the symbol (which is much more famous in its subverted form) or the word (which is harmless) as the combination: rather than the South Asian symbol of peace, it forces the association with the GermaNazi version which -- however silly UF wants to be -- is offensive, because it symbolizes racial prejudice, barbaric slaughter, and many of the worst elements of humanity.
 * Furthermore, though the South Asian symbol of peace exists, the character you are using is in fact the subverted Swastika one. Search it on Google: Peace; now compare Nazi, and look at your sig. | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 17:11, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It is not allowed in game regardless of intent. If it's reported, or otherwise noticed by ArenaNet, the character will be banned and required to change the name. It incites too much drama, as this conversation already shows. I believe we should follow the in-game standard and say no. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  17:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

This looks alot like the symbol that i am using so it must be the peace symbol, the guy has been using the name since 05 so it can't be a swastika--卍NeiN卍 17:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest that if you use anything, you use 卐 . Also, the Swastika is less stigmatized in the Orient, in whose cultures it has an origin in religion and belief as well -- whereas in the West (which is, by the way, where this English/American version of the Wiki is), it was solely introduced through the Nazis. | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 17:41, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly, Combining that kanji with the chinese word 傳說 which pronounce chuán shuō, it loosely translates to legend.  Even in Japanese or Chinese the 卍 symbol also means swastika or swirl.  By combining it with the german word for no, you are forcing a Nazi association.-- Lania [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 17:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Wyn and Lania. Regardless of how you intended it to be used, you are going to cause drama by including it in your signature, so just don't include it. – Emmett  17:52, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok i changed it--卐NeiN卐 17:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * In short, anything that looks like a swastika + Nein = no-go. --JonTheMon 17:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So i have to make a new account without Nein?--卐NeiN卐 18:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Just don't use that swastika like symbol. -- Lania [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 18:03, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But the only reason i made this account is becouse the other wasn't okay, so i will have to make a new account without nein and then it will be ok to use the peace symbol?--卐NeiN卐 18:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Why are you so "attached" to that symbol. That symbol it self is a no-go in a western English wiki. -- Lania [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 18:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that you can't use it as the user name, thats why i had to make this account but now i know that i can't use it with the word nein, so i just want to know if it's ok to use it with a name that dosn't have nein in it--卐NeiN卐 18:13, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Simply... No. Go to a non-western wiki if you want to use that symbol as part of your sig. The Swastika is associated with very negative things in America (KKK, Nazi party, White supremacists) and Europe (Nazi). No so in Asia and India.  There was even the Red Swastika Society back in the 1920's -1940's in China around asia, and worked just like the red cross.-- Lania [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]] 18:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Good trolls don't need to rely on Nazis: I award you 0/10. -- pling User Pling sig.png 18:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What?--卐NeiN卐 18:27, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 0/10 = your troll score. It means you're a shit troll.--User Oneshot O.JPG h.      moo.  18:36, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But it's not a swastika, how am i relying on Nazis?--卐NeiN卐 18:38, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if you personally don't interpret it that way, by using the symbol, you are going to cause drama and offend people. And that is not okay, especially since it's over something as trivial as a signature. It's not worth the trouble, so its use is not going to be allowed. – Emmett  18:51, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to make it clear: your account name is fine, just dont use the symbol, no matter which way it is turned. -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 21:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

NPC infobox
Hey, it's great that it's bigger now, but could you also make it big enough to hold 6 professions? White Mantle Sycophants could use it. <font color="#008800">Manifold  18:52, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm slightly hesitant to do that, as since at that point, that npc is just a Mesmer with a variable secondary. --JonTheMon 19:08, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that NPC should just have Mesmer in the infobox. Everything else is confusing. poke | talk 08:19, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So should we get rid of the hundreds of secondary classes currently displayed in various infoboxes? I'd rather have the box note which are secondaries. <font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 14:27, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's only 1 or 2 secondaries, I'd think it'd be fine to leave them in the infobox, but when it's more than that, it's more like Me/X instead of Me/Mo + Me/E --JonTheMon 14:35, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What if we changed it to display something like this: Stone Summit Dreamer would have //. White Mantle Ritualist would have:
 * The class text "Necromancer/Elementalist" would stretch some boxes, and I don't think it's really needed anyway.<font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 14:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The class text "Necromancer/Elementalist" would stretch some boxes, and I don't think it's really needed anyway.<font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 14:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The class text "Necromancer/Elementalist" would stretch some boxes, and I don't think it's really needed anyway.<font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 14:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The class text "Necromancer/Elementalist" would stretch some boxes, and I don't think it's really needed anyway.<font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 14:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey,
Thanks I am relatively new to the wiki and having trouble figuring it out, so I thought I would tinker with my talk page, and at the same time collect information regarding the mesmer update, since there is no one single place where it is at, This whole battle has stemmed from an entire other series of discussion, where the people teamed up on me in a similar matter, seen here, hrm the entire conversation seems to have disappeared, it was in reference to the defy pain update at which point I decided to not discuss the things I wanted to discuss, I apologize if I have accidentally deleted anything that was never my intention, except for on my page, which I did not want their hate filling my talk, I wanted a clean clear talk about the mesmer update without any hate of drama from these people, which obviously I no longer have because of this mess. anyway I understand what they are trying to say, but their harassment of me is not something I wish to endure so I still request that they be blocked from my talk page if it is possible, Thank you, Rogueonion 03:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh and can you tell me what I need to do to remove their posts from my work please? Rogueonion 03:12, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't remove talk page comments. Please, do what I initially suggested, and copy your work to User:Rogueonion/Research, where nobody else is allowed to edit. Greener already moved some stuff, but you can do what you want with that page. Also, nobody is harassing you. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) It's not possible to block certain people from certain pages; either they lose all their editing privileges for a time, or nobody can edit the page. What you can do do "clean slate" your talk page is to archive the contents as per Help:Archiving. Again, using a sub-page can help keep others from interfering with what you want (Greener started one for you at User:Rogueonion/Research). --JonTheMon 03:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Shard, LEAVE ME ALONE PLEASE. thanks Jon, I will look into this, Rogueonion 03:21, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So, Something I do not understand, is that someone can remove their own comments from my page? whether it has been archived or not? and this is NOT against the rules? Correct me if I am wrong? in the case of J.P. making a comment, then removing that comment from my archived page?? Rogueonion 07:11, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Pardon me that may read a bit differently than I had intended, I ask this not to cause trouble, but to find out exactly how vague the line is for this rule? I see people doing it everywhere, yet these people chose to harass me regarding it, so I am looking to find clarification about this rule and why this person is allowed to do so, and I am not? Rogueonion 07:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, strictly speaking people should not remove their own comments. Generally people do if they realize after posting that they were incorrect, but the "correct" method is to place strikethrough tags around the comment. If someone removes their own comments from your talk page, you may revert them. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 11:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Good information thanks, just so I do not make a mistake and change something I am not meant to change, how would I go about doing that? Rogueonion 11:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * At the top of every article and talk page is a small tab that reads "history." Click on that tab to access a complete list of every revision that has ever been made to that page. To revert an edit, ie restore the page to a previous version, you can click on the text that says "(undo)" next to an edit. Then you scroll down to below the text, and below the text box, enter your edit summary (something like "Please don't remove comments from my talk page"), and hit Save changes. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 11:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Once more good information, Thanks, in this case, I do not care whether the information is there or absent, but I wanted to know why people seem to be doing this all over the wiki, as well as what to do in the case of information that I did not want deleted, Rogueonion 11:52, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Be aware that this isn't happening all over the wiki. Users are ARCHIVING there talk....cut and paste...into archives (or page move).  This is also allowed but in rare cases it is fine to deleted comments.<font color="#b22222"> X treme  12:29, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I disagree with you, I see this happening many times in many different conversations, where on first look, it seems somebody made changes yet their comments do not appear, however, when we take a closer look they DID make a comment then reverted the page back to before they commented, I just have not said anything, and many of the people doing this are the same people who have "reported" me for making simple mistakes, I never claimed that I was an expert in use of the wiki, but jeez, do not mistake the fact that I am learning with the possibility that I am doing something with malicious intent. I was in fact attempting to clear space on what I assumed was my talk page for a project that I assumed would be constructive for me, and I was out right accused of acting like somebody else as well as accused of several things I had not done by said people.
 * So, perhaps the people who point fingers so readily ought to leave someone alone until they know that their accusations and thoughts are correct or see if the person is INDEED in a period of learning. I for one, would rather that my mistakes be taken as the mistake of somebody who is learning rather than be attacked for it by someone who was already trolling around my posts, making sure everybody knew he disagreed, I do not mind that he disagrees, but does he have to post it on every post that I make (which is why I am requesting he leave me alone, he has left a terrible taste in my mouth and now every time I see his name attached to one of my posts it makes me groan) accusing me.
 * I mean, what is the point? If I were to run around and post on every single one of your recent posts, and then point fingers and accuse and try to get you banned because you were just trying to accomplish a simple task while learning, what would you do in my shoes? I say it again, learning this wiki thing, is a tough time for me and he is not/has not made this an easy learning experience as every time I post he is there with something to say.
 * So perhaps he ought to leave me be for awhile, let me learn in peace and get over his personal problems with me, I for one let it go after I said my piece on My talk page, he however, has NOT let it go which prompted me to post what I posted at the bottom of my page, had he just left me alone I would not have felt it necessary to drag all of that out and post it. Dude so sorry for this Wall-0-Matic Rogueonion 12:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it would be wise to let your argument with Shard rest now. He has been warned, and further complaint is only perpetuating the situation. If you talk about him in every post, then it's only natural that he'd respond to them. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 12:52, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You are extremely deluded if you think Shard has any personal problems with you. - Auron 13:20, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You talk about learning....so have you? Have you learnt not to delete?  That strike through or archive is the way wiki's work?  Plz no wall of text just a simple answer will do.  This isn't a personal attack I am wondering if you understand that you can't delete contributions (there is a preview button as well).<font color="#b22222"> X treme  10:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I had caught onto that but I am still wondering why I see pages everywhere where people are making comments, and then deleting them, Rogueonion 10:26, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Because they don't want them to be seen. But that doesn't make it "comme il faut" to do. Where I am, people drive too fast on the highways, but that doesn't automatically make it legal. The place to start is by keeping your own path clean and it sounds like you have been pointed in the right direction by some of the helpful people here who (fortunately) make up most of the Wiki. You can't be friends with the whole world. Time to move on. --<span style=”font-family:Verdana;color:#3FF">Manassas  [[File: User Manassas Mannysig.png]] 10:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Rogueonion, can you point out some of these pages that are "everywhere" that are having comments removed? I think you're misunderstanding a distinction between talk pages and article pages. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 11:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I am sorry that you couldn't answer my simple question. I am also sorry that this is all on JhonTheMon's talk page.  This section should be redirected to Rogueonion's page so he can read it many times (for reference of course)<font color="#b22222"> X treme  12:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Certainly, When I see comments removed again I will link them to my page for others to see, the most recent example of this is the incident I cited above where J.P. made a comment to my archived page then reverted it, And xtreme, I DID answer your question something however tells me that you intend to nit pick everything I do from here on but thanks for playing anyway, Rogueonion 18:42, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Generally archived pages should not be commented on (since it is an archive, not an active page), so simple mistakes like that are generally reverted without issue. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 18:47, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, That explains that issue, However, I have seen it in regular discussions, as well, and I will start to list them when I see them and make not for admin or whomever to look at them at the same time=) Rogueonion 18:50, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I bet you are talking about edit conflict<font color="#b22222"> X treme 23:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Sweet, thanks for everything =) --Runningbaka 20:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)