User talk:Auron/Archive 3

'''This is an archive of my talk page, from August 25th to October 1st, 2007. Please don't edit it; leave comments and messages on my talk page.'''

Opinion on bureaucrat candidates
I don't know how much it will count, but as one of those who voted for both Tanaric and Xeeron, you may want to give your specific preference at Guild Wars Wiki talk:Elections/2007-08 bureaucrat election. I would like to see if we can reach a consensus by August 26 23:59 UTC. If not, your preference might (or might not) also be a factor in ArenaNet's final decision. Thanks. --Rezyk 20:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Dick says hi to u. Readem   Promote My Ban Here  05:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * hai2u :p - Auron 05:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Build
Build pls kthxbai -- Scourge   13:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * On userpage kthxbai - Auron 00:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "less QQ more pew pew" -- Scourge  [[Image:User Scourge Spade.gif]] 01:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

iawtc
- B e X   01:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Your a nice guy...
Really, I love the new look of your userpage, very nice. --- Raptors

Yeah. Auron has User Page Design skillz. Readem  Hate Mail Goes Here  01:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Numchuck Skillz if you ask me. I just HAD to borrow the code for you userpage layout Auron, I hope you don't mind. --- Raptors
 * It's leet mirite? - Auron 02:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * WE LOVE YOU AURON!!!! [[Image:User Blastedt sig.jpg]] B LASTED T 02:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No...only you Blastedt... Readem   Hate Mail Goes Here  02:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

removal of text
Auron, I have removed sections of text from your userpage as Raptor's feels they are attack against him. He responded in kind and posted something about you on his, which was also removed. He has also been warned. I understand what you are trying to say, but that is not the right way in which to achieve that. -- Lemming 02:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Archive -> achieve. I would actually disagree that it violates NPA; I did not call him names, I was commenting on his poor faith edits - which I am perfectly entitled to do. However, I don't have enough time to press the issue now. - Auron 02:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 3.30am = bad spelling
 * I realise it could be debated and argued, but it is causing an issue right now and I am trying to nip this in the bud. As you mentioned we can refer it back to the "overly bureaucratic system" and get a consensus on it. Or I can remove it and perhaps prevent you two getting into a mud slinging match. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 02:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Lets just let this all go and leave his page as it is now. --- Raptors / RAAA!
 * Well I'm back and ready to bring it up again. The only thing in GWW:NPA that remotely applies to my comment is the line that strongly discourages (but does not disallow) the use of profanity when commenting to other contributors, which I wasn't doing in the first place. If I had said "raptors is an idiot" or "raptors is a douche" or something, that would be personally attacking him, but seeing as I'm commenting on his bad faith edits on talk pages... I did not violate NPA. - Auron 09:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Auron here. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 10:34, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course you do. --- Raptors / RAAA!
 * I agree as well. While you are not allowed to attack others, that does not mean all statements regarding other people are disallowed (though the probability that an admin ever heeds the advise to tell someone to fuck off, should be close to nil I hope). Auron can very well state that he wants admins to take certain actions against Raptor. Btw, in my opinion, the same holds true for Raptors Admin Rank page (regardless of the joke line). Telling an admin that he does a bad job is not an insult and users are entitled to voice critic of their actions, as long as that critic is civil and only attacking the work as an admin, not the admin as a person. --Xeeron 11:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There is also the added consideration of what the intention of the comment in question was. Aurons intention was not to attack Raptors but to present his opinion on the matter at hand but Raptors' intention seems to be an attack of some sort, at least it was an attack when he first posted the admin ranking, although it might not be anymore. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 12:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I have drafted a response to this discussion three times now, but however I word it, I just get a feeling that this is going to go round in circles. So all I will say is that I have already stated my reasons above, I believe I did the right thing at the time and I stand by that, however if you are adamant to put it back so be it. -- Lemming 13:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you might have to, because the only reasoning I can find is "as Raptor's feels they are attack against him," which is probably the worst logic possible to justify removing stuff from any part of the wiki, much less a User's page. - Auron 13:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "it is causing an issue right now and I am trying to nip this in the bud." I was trying to prevent a mud slinging match/argument/fight whatever you want to call it, at the time. To be honest though, if you are referencing a particular user on your userpage, and they feel that what you have written, regardless of what it is, is not appropriate, they should be able to request removal. I wouldn't say that is either terrible logic or the worst reason in which to do so. I would go far as to call it common courtesy -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 13:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's nice, but I broke no policy and you took administrative action by removing the content from my page with no logic beyond "oh the other guy didn't like it." I like that you're trying to "nip this in the bud," as it were, but it isn't your place to do so; I can handle myself just fine without someone editing my userspace at whim.
 * In a similar (recent) case, Gaile removed the swearing from Raptor's page. Dirigible made a lengthy response, which detailed the following points;
 * "This wiki intentionally doesn't have a policy that censors profanity..." (in this case, it has no policy that censors comments at whim).
 * "...going ahead and removing that content anyways was not the right thing to do." This bit speaks for itself.
 * "If you disagree with profanity being allowed on this wiki, please start a discussion about it somewhere, just like we all have to do. It's you that needs to convince the community that the content is out of place, and not the other way around." i.e., if you don't like my ability to post my opinion about the actions sysops should have taken, please write up a censorship policy. I shouldn't have to "prove" that my comments don't violate policy, you need to prove that they do. - Auron 13:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It wasn't administrative action removing it, as any user could do that, administrative action would have been blocking you because of it. I find it funny and hypocritical that you are quoting back to me about Gaile's action on Raptor's page, when the whole issue here is the comment you made saying that is exactly what we should be doing. I agree I probably should not have removed that text, if it makes you feel better, I am sorry, it was late and I was tierd. However I think you and I both know it was the right thing to do, policy or not. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 14:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not really familiar with the whole "freedom of speech" thing, but imo, editing the comment on Auron's userpage is a violation of just that. If you think it's a violation of NPA, then warning or banning him would be appropriate action. Editing the comment itself, however, I would not consider appropriate.
 * And for what it's worth, I agree with Auron's comment. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

If I would've been the first one to put on my userpage: Auron needs to shape up or get the fuck out, I would've been reverted and warned and banned. Way back when I had "Get the Fuck Out of My Userpage!" on my flashing banner, and it was removed because apparently telling someone to GTFO is violating NPA, even though with that I told no particular user to GTFO. What Auron did is specifically tell me to GTFO, which, according to what I said above, is not allowed. --- Raptors / RAAA!
 * World is unfair, isn't it? Remember, people will always remember your past actions even if they don't admit it to others or even to themselves. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 21:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't give a fuck what someone's done in the past we all have the same rules and we all have to abide by them whether you like it or not. The message was violating NPA by telling me to GTFO. It is changed now, so just leave it that way. --- Raptors / RAAA!
 * While I'm not as foolish as to expect you to understand the subtleties here, I'll make it clear; I did not tell you to GTFO. Go back and read my page before commenting, please. - Auron 22:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with auron on this one, he didnt actually tell you to GTFO, he told you to either "shape up" or GTFO. There is a huge diffference between the two. One is just a dismissal, the other instead is a comment on the fact that he wishes you to either stop actions which are disruptive to the community or GTFO. -- - Salome 13:03, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

in your free time
The rest of the time you lose your artistic abilities? =P &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 00:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't seem like it, luckily :P - Auron 00:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

NPA warning
Consider yourself warned regarding a statement you made against Karlos that can be construed as in violation of GWW:NPA. A formal response to a complaint made at GWW:NOTICE -- ab.er. rant  09:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Tell him to buzz off until he grows up. I reported people to the teacher when I was in elementary school; now I have this cool life skill called "talking it over." Instead of allowing him to be a nonstop disruption (instead of just bugging me, per se, he gets to bug all the admins at once), why don't you tell him to face the facts and talk it over? If he can't do that himself, I am willing request mediation between us.
 * (I am not contesting this warning). - Auron 11:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As mentioned in GWW:NOTICE this is your second and final warning for breach of GWW:NPA, please do not antagonise this situation any further. Thank you. -- Lemming [[Image:User Lemming64 sigicon.png]] 11:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am contesting this unwarranted warning. Please provide sound logic for your actions, especially when they fly in the face of even other sysops. - Auron 12:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Signature GWW:SIGN
Hey Auron. I've read quite something about and from you over the last couple of days. I hate to say it, but your signature sucks, lol. ;-) You should give it some color (and/or structure) next time you go over the design, it's barely readable. ~ dragon legacy  21:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No. - Auron 23:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Black is slimming, what's wrong with it? -- Scourge  [[Image:User Scourge Spade.gif]] 01:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The only thing that might be irritating is that you can't make out Auron's name from the text that easily, but I don't think it's in voilation of policy in any way, and not disturbing. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 06:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not violating policy, but it does disturb me a bit. I've sometimes almost put a unsigned template and then noticed in the history that it was Auron and he did have a sig in there. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 09:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry! Template: PlatinumEdition
Whoops! Thats supposed to be a template not Templaye. Sure delete it I'll make it correctly now! Smashman Lossehelin 06:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah, you can move your work in the meantime. If you've got the info, just hit the "move" tab next to History and put in the correct spelling. - Auron 08:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Bad boys, bad boys...
It's really interesting. You're good at it. I don't know whether you're doing this intentionally, but I can see you did a fine job. Just in case you don't know what you're doing: Karlos is right. You were continuously trying to bring his opinion into miscredit (a little like telling people that guys from the IRC channels don't have any say, but let's not go there). Since the very beginning you used almost every opportunity to make your replies a slap in the face. Whether you've actually been stalking [his] every edit is not mine to judge, but I can see where that comes from. You abused your social network to illustrate a point. I really hope you were sincere with the people who are supporting your opinion, because leaning back and letting them do your fight is surely nothing to be proud of. Although most people like to talk behind other people's backs, you must have taken that to a whole new level. The good thing is that people are incredibly intuitive. The mere existence of IRCabal shows that something is amiss and your "girlfriends" feel that, too. Do you know why people are getting tired? It's because of uncertainty. People are afraid to take a stance, afraid of failure, afraid of aligning with the wrong man. (I know I've felt that way back with the issue with Stabber.) Karlos had to take a lot of shit from you, boy. I don't say it's ok, but I can't really blame him for stepping up and getting aggressive. After all, that looks like what you were aiming for. Last but not least: Remember your people, your friends, are not your personal pawns. Don't forget that. With due respect, ~ dragon legacy  09:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats nice, but what the hell are you talking about? - Auron 09:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand him either :/...anyways I am better at PvE then all of you guys. QQ GWW/Auron, Readem is the best Sunspear in the land! Readem   Hate Mail Goes Here  08:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm a Sunspear Commander Readem... Can you really beat that?!? -- Scourge  [[Image:User Scourge Spade.gif]] 08:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm CEO of the Sunspear Board of Directors. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 08:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ;o commander? That is too prO for me...maybe should work up an AB sweat/flurry, and get R1 to become an uber cool individual! More so then I already am and perhaps, I will even obtain some more modesty then I currently have (lol, silly me. No way to get Infinite +1 modesty) Readem   Hate Mail Goes Here  08:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)