Feedback talk:User/Curse You/Lacerating Chop

A nice change, however a (potential) 20 seconds of crippled on a melee class after a 2(3) second shut down is devastating to any class that would normally respond to kiting. IMO 20 seconds seems too long especially for only 5 adren, and a Knockdown. Weaponmaster 04:49, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I was unsure whether or not to give the crippled a slightly shorter duration like Crippling Slash, but I intentionally made the cripple easier to remove by having it applied second. I think I'm going to do that now. --Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 07:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Cripple duration is too long (better idea would be more in the lines of 3-5 seconds) but overall, pretty nice idea. Dark Morphon 15:54, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at Axe Rake, it has the same Adrenaline cost and is arguably easier to meet the requirement with an axe. Making the cripple duration for Lacerating Chop too short would just give further incentive to use Axe Rake instead, since it has a fixed crippled duration. At least the proposed change to Lacerating Chop requires a fair amount of points in Axe mastery to get a decent crippled duration. --Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 20:31, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair point, hadn't looked at it that way. Coming to think of it, Axe Rake is pretty powerful for such an underused skill. Dark Morphon 09:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * probably has something to do with the +9ish damage it comes with, plus it ends up being a cover condition for DW rather than a snare. Weaponmaster 07:05, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

There's a reason why cripslash is an elite. Combined with the raw power the axe line brings, I think your change would make axe warriors too good at their job. -- Armond Warblade 18:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Except Crippling Slash has no special requirement and works with other sword skills. This requires a knockdown in a line with no knockdown skills and has no synergy with other axe skills either than slowing your target. It requires that you use skills from other lines to be most effective, unlike Crippling Slash. --Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 00:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Those aren't very strict requirements. Shock axe bars carry shock and bull's strike for a reason - namely, the snare and extra utility are amazing on a melee bar. There's your knockdown, which means this skill can be used (and fairly frequently I might add). "Slowing your target" is instant synergy with any other melee attack, as well.
 * In short, the Shock Axe in its current form (sans body blow, perhaps) is perfectly balanced. Giving it another tool to do its job even better isn't necessary and would disrupt that balance. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 04:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Guys, I don't see it. Unlike Cripslash, this isn't a reliable snare. Plus, it's a melee snare, an adrnaline one at that. It requires a KD to work, which, while plenty on a Shock Axe bar, are quite pricey. But I think not having the cripple land when you want it is the kicker.
 * This will just make Shock Axe bars a little better against kiters, that is, if you can place it on your bar. That bar is pretty fixed solid (Evis, Exe, Shock, Frenzy, Cancel Stance, Res siggy, Bulls) and gives you only one open slot. Are you going to sacrifice that for a condtional cripple (and bleeding, don't forget the bleeding) that'll end up getting RC'ed away? I'd much rather pack something else on that open slot.
 * There is a reason why Rake sees no use - the primer sucks. Now, if this crippled against moving foes, then we'd talk, but right now, I'd consider a KD to be just as threatening (and thus terrible) as a DW. WUBLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19px]] [[Image:Tango-heart-icon.png|12px]]   VII  21:52, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If used with Bulls Strike, it practically is Crippled against moving foes. Also, the knockdown itself acts as a short snare, preventing the target from moving at all. --Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 02:12, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but why use it with bull's? You already have a snare (the KD), you already have a DW (evis/dismember), and you already have enough damage. All this does is add cripple, which, frankly, isn't worth the slot the same reason rake isn't.
 * Though, come to think of it, this may see play on a bar without any other DW. Pretty unreliable, but I guess you could pull it off. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 15:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd take this over Body Blow any day. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 19:01, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? the bleed isn't doing you any good (bad for RC and FF, you can't load up on conditions at the current meta), BB charges fast enough to matter in a spike (this skill will have more DPS, I'll give ya that, but consider its implications on your adrenaline gain), and cripple... Melee snares are unreliable as they are. I'll grant you that it'd be nice to have cripple on your shock axe bar, but you already have bull's (plus, to use this, you are forced to use bull's - pretty redundant when the thing you want to snare is KD'ed). NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 19:12, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Deep Wound can be quickly spotted and removed before you can use Axe Rake. However, Knockdown is much harder to spot right away and can't be removed, meaning you can always be certain you'll cause the conditions (as long as they were knocked down). Also, last time I checked, Shock Axe builds also have Shock to cause Knockdown. --Curse You [[Image:User Curse You sig icon.png|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 22:56, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * KD is just as dangerous as a DW and most coordinated teams will react to both the same way (SPIKE COMING!!!). A good team (again, strictly GvG here) will have vent or TS, and a KD will be broadcast, and monks will respond to it.
 * True, shock is there, but it's much more expensive than bull's. You shock either to interrupt a powerful skill (diversion, lol), interrupt/Shutdown through blind, and precursor to a spike. You do not shock to snare things, you have bulls for that.
 * Again, with bull's on your bar, why do you need another snare? It's like packing hamstring on a Cripslash bar - just redundant. I'd rather carry Dchop (lolquarterknock) or anything else that adds something to my build. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 15:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

~
 * Why not just add Cracked Armor in addition to bleeding? Axe Master is all about high damage, deep wound and armor penetration. ^_^ --Falconeye 05:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)