Talk:Game updates/20090305

Blood Spike
Anet is trying ignore this problem. why they dont just revert vampiric spirit to old function? Guilds just play bspike and get in top100 easily. pff, Worthless Ladder.--RedTeaCat 08:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Blood spike isn't as massive a problem as a bunch of other things in game at the moment, and it's never really been a threat without gimmicks like Dark Aura/Cultist's/Blinding Powder. Just because they didn't fix it in this update doesn't mean they won't later, or that they are ignoring the problem. Hell, they already nerfed Rend and GoC, and Angorodon's in earlier update. Also, "top100" hasn't meant anything for ages and ages now. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 10:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But they can "camp" the flag point with Unholy Feast and Signet of Agony . Also some spammable life steal elite with full heal regen just made them pretty invici. People says if they nerf AGaze will fix this problem. maybe not. This problem will exist until GW2 come out. Because izzy doenst really care. If you think Bspike isn't a OP lame build then why every double champ weekend people farm point with bspike? This idea : steal up to shouldn't exist in some game balanced competitive play as one of its stated design goals. It bypassing all protection.--61.65.70.43 05:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it wasn't a lame gimmick build (always has been, even before stupid vamp spirit giving ridiculous survivability to squishie); just that there are other broken shit which also needed attention, so I wouldn't be overhasty to dismiss bspike as being overlooked. Probably it will even be/is more popular now after they ripped into turrets etc. I agree with you on lifestealing in general; it's balanced *if* it's not spammable or able to 321spike with, but as soon as you take away those restrictions it becomes uncounterable since it bypasses nearly every protection in the game, and that's just retarded. (No one takes Symbiosis/Fertile Season to counter bspike. That's just madness.) Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:01, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Wail of Doom
so they nerfed it at last finally :D Guiding  Light  00:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah this was a super deadly skill on a 40/40 set. --Final Abomination 00:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Good riddance, but IMO a better solution would be to give it no recharge and when used it "disables" itself for 10 seconds. This isn't recharge so it cannot be decreased with item bonuses. That also disables all copies of Wail of Doom so it cannot be echoed either. In short, LAME FIX, ANET. Oh well, at least they bothered to fix it, and I'll give them credit for the effort at least.

wow, shards autism spread into the ranks of the anet team. &mdash;  Skakid  20:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Aura of Restoration
very interesting functionality change Guiding  Light  00:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, infinite energy now. 207.62.190.7 00:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Combine with Ether Renewal and lol at the results. 68.239.69.173 01:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * People were already doing that, tbh. Now combine it with Zealot's Fire and any of these and lol at the results. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  03:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I really like the buff, but honestly I think it's going to cause balance problems and it's probably going to be changed to elementalist skills only.

Healing Signet
might be too powerful now with those defy pain warriors. Loves to Sync 00:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * they actually buffed it for us yeti smiters in mqsc :D yayzors! Guiding [[Image:User_GuidingLight_Glimmer of Light.jpg|19px]] Light  00:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Good job not making only incredibly late reactionary skill updates and actually being creative, Live Team
Oh, wait......that's not what happened. Karate   Jesus  00:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Hidden Caltrops
wonder why they nerfed it? Guiding Light  00:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * try gvg some time. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus
 * i have never done gvg at all, hence the confusion Guiding [[Image:User_GuidingLight_Glimmer of Light.jpg|19px]] Light  00:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * gvg rits got a nerfbat basically. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  00:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh... basically Rits in all PvP got nerf, rawr.--ShadowFog 02:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Another of these pretty kludgy nerfs imo, but as long as it does the job it's OK I guess. 82.20.36.247 17:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Death Nova
OMG, I love this change. I hated taking it along because Olias would always fall behind because he kept using it. <3 -- ★ KOKUOU ★ 00:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I know :/ Guiding [[Image:User_GuidingLight_Glimmer of Light.jpg|19px]] Light  00:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no change to Death Nova? --86.14.89.140 08:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Heroes used to spend time outside of battle maintaining DN on dying minions. King Neoterikos 08:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It happens still 88.148.221.179 18:12, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Illusion of Haste
may be overbuffed a lil :( Guiding  Light  00:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus
 * Think that this is gonna be abused in gvg? Guiding [[Image:User_GuidingLight_Glimmer of Light.jpg|19px]] Light  00:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * probably not with HC nerfed. I imagine we'll start seeing a lot more Siphon Speed Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  01:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Aftercast and short duration still make this pretty bad. Misery  08:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought illusion of haste was alot better before..with plague sending at least.--Celtus 12:26, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So you need two skills to spread cripple?Pika Fan 12:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I used it with angorodon's gaze. Also, unlike the skills you mentioned, this one requires no point investment to be an effective cripple. im impressed with your ability to namedrop skills though pika.--Celtus 23:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure what the point of this was. I mean, if you were worried about being Crippled, you could just recast this and if that's what they were trying to get at (i.e. they were trying to buff it), 3 seconds still seems pretty long. It seems more likely that they were trying to stop synergy with Plague Sending and Contagion except for the fact that tbh those aren't really used that often with it really. 82.20.36.247 17:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

EOTN chest bug
never knew this bug existed :O Guiding  Light  00:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Hence the bug :P --Vermiller 00:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Always thought the 'no tomes' in HM Eotn was intentionally. Couldn't figure how something that blatantly wrong wasn't fixed already, hence, Anet must have their reasons for not including tomes in those drops. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 08:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Considering there are fairly well known scripts to run that unguarded chest in Ice Cliff Chasms (yes I warned them already) this probably wasn't the smartest thing to do. Tomes are really the driving force behind CR's in the first place based on potential monetary returns.  76.20.238.253 17:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Flail Nerfed
FINALLY, this OP skill on rangers is finally nerfed, like tigers fury, Heket's rampage, and rampage as one. Good bye ANNOYING OP Rangers. --Final Abomination 00:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

lawl splitwarzzz 90.212.161.88 00:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

?Abyssal Tonic?
Anyone have any idea on what it does? --Vermiller 00:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * turns you into an Abyssal Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  00:55, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Ahh thx, never seen one b4... O.o--Vermiller 00:59, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think they are found in the Fissure of Woe. --Burning Freebies 17:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Crash
Game crashed immediately after getting this update. --SetandSpike 00:57, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

my rp's didn;t work :o 90.212.161.88 01:00, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Reward Points
...Didnt get mine

on BOTH accounts...had nothing, other people at GTOB having same issue, whats going on?-- Brother Jotun ''
 * This is happening to a lot of people. Some people are getting 25, some are getting 75, and some are getting 0. Just give them time to fix it. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  01:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * They obviously screwed up their Punishment for those who got payed twice last month and now many ppl who should get some dont get any or just a few... Really hope they fix it... -- Silent Storm  [[Image:User SilentStorm MySig.png|Talk to me|19px]] 01:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yay for the innocent getting punished... 90.212.161.88 01:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I know I didnt get double points last month and I have not rcvd ANY on my accounts. I will be putting in a ticket to anet about them soon. Or if we hear anything from Regina/Gaile/Lindsey in regards to this issue! Toffin 01:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ok Lets hope this gets sorted, it would be nice RainbowCookie ''[[Image:User_RainbowCookie_Joey2J.jpg|Rawr|19px]]
 * Regina suggested submitting a support ticket, but as far as I can tell, this has happened to everyone. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  01:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's going to be taken care of. They are going to do another update and let us keep whatever extra TRP points we got. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  02:26, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK good I was getting a little worried because I didn't get any. Also, the prediction pages are acting a little strange as well. --[[Image:User Master Fast sig-icon.png]] Shinigami  King  02:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Translation of update (NO TROLLING)
Ok, here's my update translation. Now with 100% less trolling and 75% more opinions.

Hidden Caltrops: I never see anyone using this, but that gets rid of some of the misuse from secondaries.

Shadow Refuge: Good work. It needed the buff.

Aura of Restoration: Interesting change to the metagame. I'm going to see just how good the change is. Though honestly I think the 0...1 energy is getting reverted, even though I don't want it to be reverted.

Ether Feast: Well-needed buff.

Illusion of Haste: Now it will actually see some meaningful use. Congrats, Anet.

Gaze of Contempt/Rend Enchantments: Awesome, now we can actually counter with interrupts before losing all enchantments. Might want to add something to prevent use with fast casting.

Wail of Doom: A better solution would be to invalidate use with Arcane Echo, but whatever. At least Anet showed some effort and that's what counts.

Warrior Stances: Completely INCORRECT way to fix use by monks. Move to Strength and you fix the problem. Now they're just useless for anyone.

Flail: Thanks for getting rid of Rangers and Paragons using it as a free IAS without real downside.

Primal Rage: Did not need an extreme nerf.

Distracting Strike:is now worse than Distracting Blow.

Healing Signet: Finally you guys at Anet listened to be and buffed it. Good job there.

Read the Wind: did not need a nerf. Now I'm going to find another preparation. Suggestion: Revert nerf and increase energy to 10 at most.

Ancestor's Rage: Don't see why it needed a nerf, since you can't spike with it in the first place.

Weapon of Warding: ANERF, THERE IS NEVER ANY NEED TO DESTROY SKILLS.

OVERALL TRANSLATION: 80% SUCCESS, BUT COULD USE A BIT MORE THOUGHT IN THE STANCE BALANCING AND RITUALIST BALANCING AREAS.


 * I'm sorry....person who doesn't sign, but please find out what GvG is before trying to translate. And you've never seen HC used? Seriously? And Read the Wind didn't need a nerf? Someone doesn't play TA or GvG. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus
 * I use Read the Wind all the time and it's perfectly balanced. GvG isn't everything you know.
 * In TA and GvG, RtW was very very OP. I'm guessing you only RA right? Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  01:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * RtW was nerfed because it promoted turret rangers over more dynamic builds, Ancestor's was nerfed because it gave too much damage compression. And yeah, twice in one second is close enough to a spike that the delay between packets doesn't really matter outside of eurospikes.  Weapon of Warding needs to be removed from the game.  Also, KJ, stop being a twat, you knew what kinds of players used GWW before you came here. --75.71.67.5 01:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * NPA isn't necessary, tbh. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  01:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * FYI good foresight by ANet to change Illusion of Haste with the buff to ether feast. We don't want Me/N spreading 15 seconds of cripple everytime they get stripped or it ends.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 01:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

shitty update, fear of touching any dervish skills, warrior stances = crap, they don't want people to still play guild wars and guild war 2 hasn't come out yet.--Wealedout 02:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * RtW did not promote turret rangers, Flail was the problem, giving rangers a 33% IAS for free with no noticeable downside (-33% movement hurts melee a lot more). Since Flail got nerfed, Read the Wind is no longer a problem and does not need a nerf. Actually, flail was even more of a problem when used by paragons, so RtW should not have been nerfed. Revert the RtW nerf and keep Flail only useful for primary warriors. Oh, and RtW is core, and Flail isn't. Nerf expansion skills before core skills.
 * I do mostly agree with the OP, though Hidden was used in GvG (not that I actually GvG myself) and Primal was pretty widely used though I'm not sure 15 was necessary. On the whole I reckon this was an OK update, though I am pretty disappointed about the warrior stance nerfing... yes, they were abused a bit by monks in RA and TA (and GvG I guess) but now they're just useless for everyone... even the ones which weren't used much were nerfed. 82.20.36.247 17:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Proper way to nerf warrior stances is to make them end if you use a skill on other allies. Invalidate it for monks, everyone else can use it.

Weapon of warding GG
the change wasnt needed what needs to change in pvp is the hero ai thats why its over powered. 75.172.46.207 01:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Guild Lord. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus
 * Or how about an additional skill split for GvG? Other forms of PvP exist.
 * who cares about the guild lord gwen is still going to spam weapon of shadow and thats much much worse cuz she will spam that before you even start attacking. also WTB Scatter for ROJ and another Second added to palm strike. my point is weapon of warding wasnt the issue Hero ai is.75.172.46.207 01:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Weapon of Warding is an issue, just not the main one when it comes to Tease heroes. --75.71.67.5 01:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * WoW was used to basically keep the Guild Lord untouchable. Now it'll last a whole 1 second on him. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  01:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just for one NPC they nerfed it for the whole PvP? WOW! Awesome approach!--ShadowFog 02:55, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Better solution- Guild Lord is no longer affected by weapon spells. Simple and easy.
 * Splinter Weapon nerfed, PwK nerfed, A-Rage nerfed, WoW nerfed, Spirits nerfed... Next month we'll see something like: A-rage for 80 seconds, all foes, adjacent to target ally are struck for 1 lightning damage each second. Or maybe they'll nerf weapon of shadow? Mend Body And Soul? Channeled Strike? --Kigamo 10:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is that Splinter Weapon is still deadly (PvE and PvP), PwK is still powerful (PvE and PvP), Weapon of Shadow is due for a nerf (because of heroes), and possibly Channeled Strike too. A lot of Ritualist skills are only now being brought to roughly what they should have started as back when Factions came out (the original Splinter Weapon/Arage was enormously overpowered). Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 11:17, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * They need to nerf Bloodsong because is armor ignoring, Channeled Strike because the elementalist gets outshined(lol, no it doesnt), PwK god awful +10 armor is too tough and too good heal!, Caretaker's Charge just for the hell of it, Cruel Was Daoshen because deals damage to nearby foes same to Destructive Was Glaive, Nightmare Weapon because unblockable fast IAS builds were having it too good, Spirit Rift because it deals damage to nearby foes and outshines Elementalist(lol, no it doesnt), Splinter Weapon (PvP) because too much Q.Q ers in GvG, Weapon of Fury because they somehow discovered how to exploit it, Wielder's Strike because it outshines Elementalists((lol, no it doesnt)). Now that the Channeling is fuck up, please go back to old meta.--ShadowFog 11:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When was the last time you saw anyone using Bloodsong in PvP? Or any attack spirits, for that matter, outside of take-every-spirit-in-the-game-and-spam-them-all-at-once-to-turtle gayness?
 * Channeled Strike does easily over 100 damage for a fair energy cost and recharge. You can still spike with it. Any viable build would have some sort of item spell anyway, so the conditional is moot. It also has nothing to do with Elementalists, as they are not a damage class in PvP and never should have been.
 * PvK could give -40 armor and people would still use it because it heals for more than Heal Party for less energy and faster cast time, not to mention it's actually in a decent attribute. No one cares about the armor boost because that's not what you use the skill for. You're doin it wrong otherwise.
 * Caretaker's Charge is an awesome skill for one single purpose: runners. Outside of that it's mediocre at best, and lolawful in PvE. It might get tweaked for being overused, but I doubt that, especially as rit runners are no longer invincible due to PwK/WoW changes.
 * Cruel was Daoshen has been a bad skill ever since it was first released, and it's only used in gimmicky PBAoE spike builds which don't work outside of RA etc. anyway.
 * Nightmare Weapon is decent as is; it negates nearly any possible damage you could have done and turns it into lifestealing. It's not spammable, it can't be maintained on more than one person really, and it maxes out around 130 lifesteal which is quite reasonable every ~12 seconds. If you cast it on a Monk or something, they'll still have to wand to use it, and that's five seconds they could have spend doing something else...or five seconds without WoW on them. You could run a gimmick build with like eight copies of Nightmare Weapon, but not only would that be completely predictable and inefficient, it would suck.
 * Spirit Rift has adjacent range which is quite small. It has a 2-second casting time and then another 3 seconds before it actually causes damage. If you can't move out of the small AoE in that timeframe, you deserve to get owned by it anyway.
 * Splinter Weapon is deadly in many PvP formats, not just GvG. Ever used it when capping shrines in AB etc? Ever used it with a scythe?
 * Weapon of Fury is an amazing elite, and the only reason it doesn't see more play is because it's elite, and thus you lose out on too much other critical things by taking it. Same reason people don't take Water Trident more often.
 * Wielder's Strike isn't that good. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 12:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * SO lets fuck all the rits then cuz we got no more skills worth using!! fuck that this shit sucks rits are nerfed to the ground after those last updates and u claiming they are overpowered. u can count all the usefull rit skills on 1 hand so no wonder they are overused cuz there is no other option worth taking --93.173.253.180 12:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're funny. Weapon of Warding - exactly the same as it used to be, but now your Monk can't wand, and the opposing team actually has a chance to attack the Guild Lord/Ghostly Hero/. Big fucking deal. Now your Pimpslapper can't ignore linebacking? Well that's a step towards balance. You might also consider that Resilient Weapon still doesn't have a PvP version. Ancestors' Rage - does like ten less damage now, still ignores Spirit Bond and prot spirit, it's still a Skill instead of a Spell. Q fucking Q. Protective was Kaolai - has been addressed at great length on its talk page, but to briefly recap, if you used the skill for its armor boost you were an idiot. It also used to have a longer recharge time. Going back even further - Clamor of Souls: has always sucked. Destructive was Glaive: got buffed. Signet of Ghostly Might (PvE): Got buffed. Signet of Spirits (PvE): Has always sucked. Consume Soul: became more generally useful. Defiant was Xinrae: was never viable anyway. Reclaim Essence: buffed. Xinrae's Weapon: Hugely buffed. Summon Spirits (pve skill): Buffed. Vampirism (pve skill): Buffed. Splinter Weapon: Still owns in PvE, still deadly in PvP. Ritual Lord: Buffed. Death Pact Signet, Flesh of my Flesh (PvP): Still viable, still used; Death Pact was actually buffed for energy return if you specced for it. Recuperation, Life, Pure Was Li Ming, Displacement, Shelter: Abuse in GvG made these skills too powerful for protecting the Guild Lord. Changes did not affect any other form of PvP, or PvE. Recuperation, Life, Pure Was still used. Soothing Memories: Buffed. Rejuvenation: Buffed. Sundering Weapon: Buffed. Warmonger's Weapon: was always and still is very strong. Sight Beyond Sight: Hardly anyone used this anyway.
 * That covers an entire year and three months of updates. Look at that list. Tell me how "rits are nerfed to the ground". Tell me how Ritualists aren't still powerful - not necessarily as universal as a warrior, but still powerful. Explain the fact that /Rt is still one of the most popular secondaries for Elementalists, Necromancers, and Mesmers, possibly others. Because I am very interested to know. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 22:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ARage - 33(NOT ARMOR IGNORING!!) for 3sec only adjacent making total of 99dmg if u are lucky, PwK - yes there are other aspects to the game other then just spamming healing and yes unremovable 24 armor boost is still good thing, Consume Soul - VERY Lame version of Vampiric Spirit, Shelter - geez really worth the 25e 45recharge for a max of 6 hits, Rejuvenation - dead before u know it too , Displacement - third time a charm? , Pure Was Li Ming - max of 4 conditions removed instead u can have Martyr & Purge Condition just 1 extra skill for way better result, Weapon of Warding - if your god damn Guild Lord/Ghostly Hero is so importent then why not changing it so u can't target npc? why fuck everyone? this skill was a great anti-spike for frontline chars and now it'll end after 2 sec max. oh and secondery rit u say? so yes rit got some nice hard res skills so what it doesnt really cause nobody except maybe r/rt uses the other rit skills it is just better alternative to monk hard res. And this is me only talking about skills u mentioned and the other skills u mentioned are either good or i havn't tried them yet. And u want to know the answer to why rits are so powerful? it's not them being powerful it's ppl being dumb cause I can tell u how I win in RA I just rush in to a fight with a Warrior/Dervish/Assasin(most easy prey I've seen really dont know why ppl use them other then farming)/ranger and just let them attack me while spamming XW / WoR / GW and while they kill themselves and i'm still alive full HP. --93.173.253.180 15:02, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I notice that I'm repeating the same arguments over and over again, so I think I'll quit after this time.
 * ARage would be pretty fucking overpowered if it ignored armor. It does like ten less damage than it used to and delays the damage over one additional packet/second. Is it still a good skill? Hell yes. Can't be stripped, needs to be hard-rupted, gives you ~100 mobile AoE damage for a mere 5 energy. After the nerf, it may not be godly wtf broken, but it's still a decent skill.
 * PwK removed your weapon sets, so you really only ever gained like +10 armor, and you also lost a bunch of other bonuses. All the better to now encourage the proper and more effective usage of the skill, which is not to tank but to (party)heal.
 * Consume Soul isn't at all comparable to Vampiric Spirit, since that is quite broken. :\ The old version was a gimmicky party heal. But you could always do that with Feast of Souls and save your elite. Now it's a pretty decent and flexible skill - it's not uber, but it's not trash either. Being able to eliminate any summoned creature in one hit (Flesh Golems in The Deep come to mind) and get a massive self-heal in the process is quite nice. Even without that, it's like Vampiric Gaze before that was nerfed. A lot of people took that skill.
 * Pure Was is quite a bit stronger than it looks. The AoE multi-condition removal without wasting your elite (I hope you were joking about Martyr? :\), and for a reasonable cost, is very nice. You don't even have to invest heavily into Restoration to make it useful - with just 3 rank it's two conditions. It's unique because every other (non-elite) AoE/multi condition removal in the game is conditional, target self, or otherwise gimped with a strong drawback. Consider how Mending Touch is useful to rip covered Daze off your monk; Pure Was removes covered Daze from the entire backline, or Cripple/Blind from the frontline, or...lastly, because it's an item spell effect on drop, you can't interrupt it or otherwise prevent the removal.
 * It wasn't just for hard res (although that's correct, they are pretty much always better than monk ones). Secondary Ritualist with ~8 points into Restoration Magic was very common on any caster build that could afford it, so you'd see Weapon of Warding *everywhere*. Which was ridiculous. The game starts to become imbalanced when nearly everyone can get almost-maintainable 50% block that also happens to include free healing. Not to mention it cannot be removed. And even now, people can still take Resilient Weapon - so instead of block, they get +24 armor and slightly more healing, which in some cases is even stronger (e.g. versus caster). Resilient Weapon also lasts longer.
 * Anyway, "why fuck over everyone else just because of GvG?" Three options here. 1) ANet doesn't like to recode the NPCs. Remember the Cyclone Axe / SV exploit? 2) Outside of GvG, it was maybe too strong when your pimpslap sin (who has no defensive skills of their own) could lineback enemy warriors with 50% block and healing. That is just imbalanced. WoW was undeniably a strong skill; now it takes a bit of a brain to use. Unlike "Escape", it is a defensive skill that actually makes the user play defensive. 3) The skill split system doesn't have separate versions of skills for each PvP format. So things like this happen a lot. This has been a constant criticism and is actually a quite valid point - why should everyone else get fucked over just because of GvG/HB/HA/whatever? It's understandable that this would probably be too much work for ANet, and also be confusing as hell when there is like seven versions of every skill. But it also makes a lot of sense in that each PvP format just plays completely differently than the others, so you can't balance them all the same way. It's not like PvE where the same tactics will get you through everything (eventually).
 * Stupidity of other people and winning in RA doesn't say that much about game balance... people have won multiple glad points in RA with Echo Mending builds, no skills at all, naked characters, etc. I've seen battles where a single player wins against a team of four. Not to mention Healing Hands Wammos, which people still use, and stupid people still lose to... Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I've had enough of these...

 * Hidden Caltrops: now disables all your non-Assassin skills for 10 seconds.
 * Mark of Insecurity: now disables your non-Assassin skills for 10 seconds.
 * Signet of Humility: now disables your non-Mesmer skills for 10 seconds.


 * "A character's secondary profession (or secondary) provides them with a second set of attributes and skills to complement the first." (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Profession)


 * Change one or the other, but get open hypocrisy down from being documented so it doesn't look so bad.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 01:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree this is a bad trend; they should figure out other ways to balance those 3 skills. Loves to Sync 01:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * well said, but instead of taking time to think things through they like taking the easy way out..-- Arrythmia [[Image:User Arrythmia arrythmia.sig.JPG|18px|]] 01:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to post to agree with what's been said above. One of the things that caracterises GW is the ability to have a secondary profession so it's sad to see skills nerfed in that way, just move them to the primary attribute in that case. (isnt that what it was made for afterall ?) 212.198.133.95 01:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, this group does what no other company dare to do. So with each update Anet tends to extend the gameplay of the game(sarcasm), buff **** up skills that we paid for(sarcasm) and offers their client more variety to keep them playing GuildWars(sarcasm).--ShadowFog 02:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * /agree, this a bad way to fix things. And worse, it ruins PvE, but I mean, that's only, what, 95% of the players ... so meh! Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  • 03:29, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with the subject, but can PvE be ruined any more? It has already been patheticly easy, abuseable and a boring grind after you completed the missions.  SniperFox [[Image:User_SniperFox_IconSmall.gif]] 12:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've said it before as well... the disable durations are a cheap kludgy way to nerf something. Sometimes it's needed, perhaps as a stand-in while you think of something better, but to be honest this is aweful... before they said they were trying to encourage hybrids and suchlike (that was one of these reasons Cracked Armor had to be dealt and used by different classes) and now they do this! You can't even use your res sig for 10 seconds after using those skills... all it does is stop people from using them like ever, or at least the two assassin ones, since they don't sit well on sins. Mesmers can still use SoH, but they have to put up with a complete lack of a secondary profession and the inability to res for half of the time. 82.20.36.247 17:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Killing res sig is an incredibly stupid side effect of these nerfs. I can see your point on the profession drawback but both A and especially Me can function as stand alone if they really want to run these.  I would love to know what they expect us to do if someone happens to die during that skill downtime though.  76.20.238.253 21:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Dev maths fail
"When this skill was combined with offhand and main hand equipment that provides up to a 40% chance to recharge your skills 50% faster (and sometimes a 40% chance to cast faster)" (from here). It's 36% people! See the 40/40 article. But yes, other than that, good update. WTS Everlasting Abyssal tonic w00t. --BlueNovember 02:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually the devs were not fully wrong just simplifying, since there is also a 4% chance that you will activate skills not 2 times faster but 4 times faster. The cap on half skill recharge makes it so that 40/40s don't have a 4% chance to 1/4 skill recharge instead that extra 4% is also 1/2~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 02:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, fair point indeed. I'd forgotten about the cap. gg there. --BlueNovember 04:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You had it right. The 4% chance of both triggering is included in the 36%.  There's only a 32% chance of one triggering without the other.  66.190.15.232 06:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

You forgot this part:
 * "[...]it had a strong chance to shut down an opponent for 10 seconds"

Wail of Doom lasts 4sec at 13+ soul reaping, but everyone knows that 4+4=10. gg 212.198.133.95 15:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

reward points twice?
seems like i was able to get my reward points twice, i got them again in the se3cond update. anyone else get that? is it going to be reversed? -- adrin  03:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You were supposed to. And if you read Regina's Journal she said that we're keeping whatever extras we get. Karate  [[Image:User Karate Jesus sig.png]]  Jesus  03:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * User_talk:Regina Bottom of Page. Apparently Anet realised they cant code anything properly and decided to just let it be. The whole Distribute them with an Update System is flawed. It could easily be done automatically and would even be failproof but meh. -- Silent Storm  [[Image:User SilentStorm MySig.png|Talk to me|19px]] 03:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Come on, Anet
Thanks for buffing healsig, and nerfing half of the already terribad tactics line. Way to give warriors less of a reason to use their own attribute line. It's always -other- classes that ruin it D:

I also propose a universal "if it doesn't break PvE don't fuck with it." rule for Anet to adopt. I mean, what do they think they split PvE and PvP skills FOR anyway? This entire update seemed to be about Spike effectiveness and Split tactics, yet most of these skills are nerfed for PvE too. Sometimes I seriously wonder. People aren't going to complain if you stop nerfing PvE skills. In fact, we won't complain if you buff them (at least it gives us something to play around with). PvE is easy, and that's more of a reason to have fun with skills. Hell, enemies use em too, so it's not like you're nerfing one side and buffing another. 75.187.206.97 06:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ANET LEARN TO BALANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, YOU REALLY SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK BALANCING !!!!!! XDDDDDD "BUFF + 1/2 MONTHS WAITING ¿WHAT? + NERF" YOU SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK--89.129.149.220 08:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Necro skills got again longish casting times, which makes them unattractive. Tactics line defensive stances are made totally unusable. Why did they not split this in a PvE and a PvP part, if they really felt the need to make Warrior evasive stances for PvE totally useless for the sake of PvP. Isaiah Cartwright might be gone, but balancing still does not get better...^^ --91.9.123.197 11:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Even before the original nerfs which made the Tactics stances short duration + short recharge, they weren't really used that much (in PvE). Sure, it was nice to be able to laugh and block attacks for ~18 seconds, but you were making a considerable sacrifice by not having an IAS/IMS. With Defy Pain, who needs block stance anyway? Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 11:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * @91.9.:Yes yes, for the next update "We needed to lower the percentage of fast casting. It was been too effective with the new updated skills in GvG. Somehow they got popular since the recent update."--ShadowFog 11:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Sigh, it always comes down to bad players whining about the wrong things. 1)Stances are still useable, except you can't use it as a pre-prot. 2)Ancestor's Rage still provides decent pressure as a skill, just that it does less on spikes. 3)NOBODY uses stances in PvE because SY renders it useless, and the fact that you blow mobs up within 5 seconds or you should reconsider your teambuild. 4)5 energy spells with ridiculous recharges that ignores and REMOVES all prots should never exist anyway, be thankful they only increased the casting time and not remove it entirely. 4)Yeah, PRage got over-nerfed, sad, but true, get over it. Overall it was a pretty good update, so stop making yourselves look more terrible than you already are. Pika Fan 11:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Next time you decide to jump in the middle of a discussion with backwards arguments about things that aren't even relevant, slap yourself in the face with the nearest flaccid dick, please. Just because we can blow shit up in 5 seconds doesn't mean everyone is, or even wants to run the same cookie cutter builds. Most of the joy I get out of GW comes from playing around with potential builds, and it's disappointing to see entire attributes and large portions of attribute skills completely worthless for most of PvE (besides niche team builds, farming, ect).
 * The point of what I was saying (I'm 75.187), I suppose, is if Anet split PvE and PvP, why are they STILL nerfing skills in PvE for the sake of PvP? Is it coding? space? laziness? lack of motivation to? Axel Zinfandel 22:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I like to be condescending too. Bad GvG players give bad stats for Guild Wars "balancers".Pika, because you suck at giving advices at Guild Wars, don't bring flame wars to discussion pages.--Wealedout 12:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * At the very least, I give a convincing argument, unlike pure trolls like you. Go and learn how to give a proper argument, then come back in ten years time.Pika Fan 12:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me take this one. GvG players are having their food handed by spoon from Anet. Most of them suck and who suffers from that? All GW players in all formats. Ancetor's Rage still wut?--ShadowFog 12:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Umm, how many times must I say that NOBODY uses arage outside of GvG and maybe ABs? Guess you convieniently skipped over the fact that I have already provided a logical counter against every single one of your fallacious arguments.Pika Fan 12:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When you have finally decided to give an actual argument why these nerfs negatively affect other forms of PvP and PvE, kindly post on my talkpage, I have enough dealing with retards and my eyes are bleeding at the blatant stupidity on this page.Pika Fan 12:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure I can give you my insights, right here for newbs to read, about skills but next time doing links you did to offend me or anyone just doesnt help to the discussion, and I surely wont take anyone seriously like that neither:
 * 1) Nerfing those stances sure helps in PvP but doesnt win any points to PvE players who were using them in the first place and the argument that nobody uses it in PvE, it's not an excuse to nerft it both PvP and PvE when in reality it was giving problem in PvP against Monks who had an easy energy management with the stances with their 4 pip of energy regen.
 * 2)Read the Wind(PvP) is basically is useless now as a damage skill, Flail is free to the Ranger. Turret ranger? What else you want them to do besides stand around and snipe targets? Wear skirts too?
 * 3)Ancestors' Rage (PvP): Its total damage was reduce by 7 and you need 3 seconds for a full 93 damage skill so kiting foes may not even receive 60 damage, the dps has been decreased. The skill already has an 8 second recharge time. Whats the problem? It targets allies instead of foes? I can think of many AoE skills that are deadlier.
 * 4)Hidden Caltrops is what now? The fourth skill they cant balance?
 * 5)There are still dozens and dozens of awful skills waiting for a revamp to change meta.
 * BAWW! rawr(lol).--ShadowFog 13:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you were using the Tactics stances in PvE at any point in the game's life - whether it was during Prophecies or otherwise - you were doin it wrong. Gladiator's Defense farming being the sole exception. There is only a single occasion in all of PvE where I've ever found the skills to be useful, and that is during one particular quest where I needed a hero "tank". Any other time, it's infinitely better to have an IAS, IMS, or even no stance at all (as that doesn't slow you down 75%, prevent you using adrenal skills, or prevent you using skills period).
 * Read the Wind was one of the best preparations in the game, along with Apply Poison. It gave non-negligible armor-ignoring damage, made arrows from any bow very likely to hit even moving targets ("wield a recurve bow"), made flatbows viable, costed only 5 energy, didn't have a gimped duration like Choking Gas, and was non-elite. Even outside of turret rangers, it was really good, and was that way for like three years now. While I personally don't see it being abused now that Flail isn't viable, it was still a very strong skill regardless, so a nerf was perhaps in order. Also, if you think turret ranger is/was the only useful Ranger build in PvP, you're quite mistaken.
 * Ancestors' Rage was one of the most powerful skills in the game in its first incarnations, and should never have existed tbh. A lot like Seering Flooms, ANet has tried again and again to rebalance it, and they're only now starting to sort of get it right. At one point they even tried giving it Exhaustion - it was that strong. Yes, the fact that it targets allies instead of foes/yourself is a very big reason it's so powerful. It can't be stripped, it can't be blocked, it's not a Spell so many interrupts won't work against it, it adds strongly to pressure (but thank god you can't stack it to spike anymore)... etc.
 * ANet did miss changing a bunch of other problem skills (hint: RoJ still doesn't count as AoE), but overall this update did more help than harm towards balancing the game. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 13:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * One thing you seem to be missing... if nobody used the stances in PvE, surely they ought to be *buffed*, not nerfed? I mean come on, "nobody used them anyway" that's a feeble excuse. "Ah, they stink, let's make them stink more!". Yeah. Tbh, the stance updates were pretty poor, yeah they had to be nerfed on monks and I'm amongst those who've wanted that for a long time, but just to make them useless on *everyone* wasn't really the ideal way to do it. 82.20.36.247 17:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's permissible to have unused skills in the game. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 17:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * facepalm* you fail at logic.Axel Zinfandel 22:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I do Agree with Axelfunx here and further add that in soviet Russia logic fails on you. They pretty much destroyed the idea of "Tactics Tank" with that change actually, now you need 3-4 skills todo what you could do with just one or two. Poor Tactics still weeps in the corner, now even lauder then usual. Biz 20:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, now you have "Strength Tank" that works about the same if not better to make up for it...? (Blockway and actual tanking have quite different uses, I'm aware of that, but still.) Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:53, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Arenanet
For completely ignoring your community. I may not agree with every change in every update, but if you listened to the people whining on this page the game would be absolutely terrible. This was another "mostly positive" update in my opinion. The last update wasn't too horrific either, please continue. Misery  11:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh please, keep ignoring all PvP formats except GvG, this attracts more customers and for every nerf update it keeps the game fresh and keep the old players playing with the new contents on the updates. Another bowl please!--ShadowFog 11:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Arenanet for not doing good updates, listening to bad players and your hypocrisy is refreshing compared to Valve's. While Valve listens you guys suck at it, thanks for showing us the opposite of Valve and being an example for not what to do for future developers.Even though we have discussion pages, you don't care, thanks really for the bug fixes though.--Wealedout 12:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Was arenanet really supposed to listen to bad advice from people like you and shadowfog? I sure hope not, we would see rubbish like ancestor's rage doing 200 damage per second and weapon of warding party-wide.Pika Fan 12:05, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * They didn't ignore other formats at all, they adjusted turret rangers which have been a huge problem in TA, HA, RA, AB and GvG. They adjusted WoD, which only really sees serious play in TA. They adjusted Weapon of Warding in a way that means it can't be used to make the Ghostly invulnerable in HA, this will not seriously affect TA, AB or RA. They adjusted Rend and Gaze of Contempt, often used in spike builds in HA, TA and GvG. They made it so monks can't chain stances 24/7 in TA and GvG. They hurt flail for 12345678 spike sins and turret rangers affecting TA, GvG, RA, AB and HA, in all of which they were a problem. None of the nerfs seriously negatively affected AB, RA or CMs. PvE was largely unaffected. Misery  12:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, because GvG players couldnt think to bring something so simple as ublockable skills and from the same Ritualist skills, and this is not a random PvP. WoW wont seriously affect wut? Eh... obviously, yes it will, damages your tactics and skill bar when protecting your other teammates and making builds.--ShadowFog 12:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody uses Arage in PvP outside of GvGs and maybe ABs, and WoW means you can't wand now. Oh noes my conjure lightning + wanding + wow build is nerfed nooooooo. Stances are still viable in TA/RA, just swap to shield stance if you find the 1 second lesser on dis stance unbearable.Pika Fan 12:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you see it was always a pretty bad option for TA and RA, now it is still a bad option. There is very little reason to ever run a ritualist in AB, nerfing WoW does not impact negatively or positively on this fact. GvG players do bring unblockable skills by the way, to counter WoW because it can't be stripped. Doesn't make it less of a problem and in fact WoW will still see significant play. Misery  12:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * WoW can still be used on monks and whatnot which was one of its main uses in HA, for example, so it's still OK it's just less awesome than it was. 82.20.36.247 17:26, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Translation of talk page (some trolling involved)
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Misery  12:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "BAWW!"= Anet learn to nerf.--ShadowFog 12:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, it means QQ moar.Pika Fan 12:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Did someone saw BAAAAAAAAWWWW? Misery  12:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * /wiki --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 12:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Anet, BAWWW!--ShadowFog 12:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

At Last
At last, PvP is balanced again... well almost (still waiting for PS nerf) --Soulforged 13:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Methinks its about time to simply eliminate the Monk profession. I mean, c'mon, all this 2nd hand healing. There must a reason we're getting all this 'self-sufficiency' now. 76.30.79.54 14:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Lingering Curse, Heroes, Scythes critting for 150, etc. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 14:23, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When it comes to balancing, it is much safer to do it slowly. Now that anet has actually been starting to churn out balances with quite a good quality, I think we should give them a chance at it before starting to discourage them.Pika Fan 14:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Last two balance updates have been improving tbh. I'm feeling positive. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  14:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Misery here, Anet is taking the right direction. Still, there are much problems to fix. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  16:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, PvP is still a long way from being balanced, but ANet definately seem to be moving in the right direction, and tbh I'd rather they did things slowly and surely rather than suddenlt messing everything up even worse. 82.20.36.247 17:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. There is still a lot of work to be done but Anet is slowly getting more intelligent.

Shield Bash
Still viable on Mo/Ws. A well timed shield bash can be far more powerful than a petty 75% block chance (for 4v4 arenas anyways). --8765 20:53, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Anet forgot to nerf shield bash for monks.
 * I don't think they forgot. --75.71.65.101 17:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Some self heals are getting IGNORED
Troll unguent still sucks. It's dshot food, you get SF spammed/knocked down and the attribute scaling is garbage. Leader's Comfort is still worthless in random/team arenas. Blood Renewal is still in the trash can. BUFF PLEASE.
 * Troll Unguent sucks? You're funny. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 02:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * L2p. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 02:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Troll Unguent sucks for PvE, and I'd imagine for PvP it just screams 'interrupt me', though I wouldn't know Axel Zinfandel 03:53, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Troll Unguent is the only viable self-heal for a Ranger in PvP, and has been for years. It's unstrippable and at common Wilderness Survival rankings it gives from 7 to 9 regen. Sure, if you're a turret pew pew ranger, it's useless - but you knew you'd be sacrificing survivability for damage, so. It only costs like two energy after Expertise and can be maintained forever. By the way, SF does like nothing to Rangers anyway. 100 armor and all.
 * There's this really convenient skill that also happens to be in Wilderness Survival, it's called Natural Stride. With 50% block, you can usually get off Troll Unguent under pressure from one interrupt (unless it's Cry of Frustration or something, but you can't do much against that regardless). If that's not enough, you could take Lightning Reflexes or Whirling Defense for a 75% block. All of those are good skills regardless. A good Ranger also knows to pre-cast Troll Unguent before an engagement, or to retreat from combat so they aren't a prime target (Natural Stride also happens to be an IMS), or even abuse the terrain, which can be done on a number of maps. The very skilled ones will activate it and then cancel, to draw out an interrupt.
 * In PvE, though, I'd never use it since monsters have ridiculous interrupt reflexes and the healing will rarely save you (Rangers should be one of the last people alive, so by then it's probably too late). Better to rely on the Monk or whatever... of course, if you're the puller, or you're a runner, it can still be useful. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 04:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

THANKYOU, I GOT ZAISHEN RANK 3 AND NOW I CAN SLAM SOME GOLDEN FLASHY SPEAR INTO MY ENEMIES, I AM SO HAPPY (really, i love vanity things like the zaishen emote). THIS UPDATE OF MARCH THE 5TH HAS ENABLED ME TO INDULGE IN MY JOY OF MY FLASHING SPEAR, BEGOTTEN FROM MY FRIENDS ON THE BATTLE ISLES WHO ARE CALLED THE ZAISHEN. AND I'M SORRY I EVER THOUGHT YOU WERE EVIL, MY ZAISHEN FRIENDS. TOMB OF PRIMEVAL KINGS WENT ALL GRIM AND DARK AND YOU WERE THERE SO I BECAME SUSPICIOUS, BUT NOW I KNOW THE TRUTH, YOU ARE THE HUMBLE AND MIGHTY SERVANTS OF BALTHAZAR AND I SALUTE YOU, AND AGAIN THANKYOU FOR THOSE POINTS, I LOVE GETTING ZKEYS BECAUSE I LOVE MY FLASHING SPEAR. ZAISHEN, YOU GUYS ARE GREAT. BLESS YOU AND BLESS KUN SHAO (btw Kun Shao you still owe me a drink, man lol)

NOW PROPS TO THE GUYS NAMED ARENA NET, I LOVE READING THE UPDATES EVERY MONTH. I LOVE HOW THE GAME CHANGES AT A FLUID PACE, UNLIKE SOME GAMES WHERE YOUR THINGS ARE THE SAME FOREVER UNTIL YOU COMMIT SUICIDE OR QUIT THE GAME. I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT MONTH, BECAUSE I KNOW CHANGE IS ON THE HORIZON, AND GOOD OR BAD, IT IS CHANGE THAT WILL INSPIRE THE GREAT THINKERS OF THIS GAME TO CONTINUE THINKING, AND TO CREATE WONDERFUL BUILDS THAT WILL HELP OUR PROUD RACE OF HUMANS TO FIGHT STRONGLY IN THE ISLES OF BATTLE, OR TO HOLD BACK THE FALLING OF NIGHT, OR TO EVEN DESTROY SHIRO TAGACHI!!!!! IT IS A WONDERFUL SYSTEM THAT MAKES ME PROUD TO SAY I AM A MEMBER OF THE HUMAN RACE, WE ARE THINKERS, TINKERERS, AND TRANSCENDERS. LICHES, GHOSTS, OR FALLEN GODS BEWARE! PLEASE CONTINUE MAKING GOOD UPDATES AND PLEASE CONTINUE BREATHING FRESH AIR INTO THE BEAUTIFUL WORLD THAT OUR MOTHERS AND FATHERS, DWAYNA MELANDRU GRENTH BALTHAZAR AND LYSSA CREATED!!

PS. AS AN EXAMPLE I LOVE AURA OF RESTORATION, ELEMENTALISTS ARMOR IS NOT VERY STURDY LIKE A WARRIOR. BUT NOW, ELEMENTALISTS THE WORLD OVER CAN BOLDLY STAND UP AND SAY, "NO, CHARR, I AM INDEPENDANT. I CAST MY SPELLS, AND I AM NOT AFRAID OF YOU, FOR I HAVE A VIVID AURA OF RESTORATION ABOUT ME, YOU WILL BURN AND I WILL LIVE TO SEE MY WIFE AND CHILDREN AGAIN!" MONKS WILL BE HAPPY TOO. ON THE BATTERED LANDSCAPES OF THE ALLIANCE WARS, OUR ELEMENTALIST BROTHERS AND SISTERS CAN CONFIDENTLY GO ON THEIR OWN TO BRING PAIN TO THE ENEMY. OUR MONKS CAN NOW FOCUS ON NEW MATTERS THAT ARE ALSO IMPORTANT, TO KEEP OUR LOW ARMOR FRIENDS LIKE A MESMER OR RITUALIST ALIVE AND KICKING BUTT. AND I AM NOT IGNORANT, I HAVE FRIENDS AND I LOVE THEM ON BOTH THE LUXON NATION AND THE KURZICK FORESTS. I TALK TO THEM EVERY DAY AND THEY EVEN TALK TO EACHOTHER. TIMES ARE CHANGING, LUXONS AND KURZICKS FALL IN LOVE OR GO FOR WALKS, I BELIEVE THIS CREDIT GOES TO ARENA NET, THE GREAT INSPIRERS. AS HUMANS THINK ABOUT WAYS TO KILL EACHOTHER BECUASE OF OUR CHANGING POWERS, INSTEAD WE LEARN TO HELP EACHOTHER LIVE, AND PEACE AND HARMONY BLOSSOMS. EVEN THE SORROWFUL ASSASSINS OF THE DARK TIMES OF CANTHA CAN PUT THEIR KNIVES DOWN FOR A MOMENT, LOOK UPON THEIR FELLOW MEN AND WOMEN AND SHOW A BRIEF SMILE, OR MAYBE EVEN LAUGH, BECAUSE THEY ARE SEEING THE DAWN OF BEAUTIFUL CHANGE. I GREW UP IN THE MONASTERIES AND IT BRINGS TEARS IN MY EYES TO SEE A DARK HEART BECOME BRIGHT AGAIN, LIKE IT WAS LONG BEFORE. I HAVE LOST MY PARENTS AND EVEN MY LITTLE SISTER TO WAR AND THE TERROR OF THE STREETS OF KAINENG CITY. I UNDERSTAND THE PAIN OF LOSS, BUT I KNOW NOT TO BE FOOLISH. LOVE BREEDS SACRIFICE, AND SACRIFICE BREEDS HATE, BUT HUMANS!! WE CAN STOP BEFORE HATE. WE ARE NOW LEARNING THIS, THANKYOU ARENANET, THIS IS YOUR CREDIT. OUR FRIENDS, FAMILY AND SPECIAL SOMEONES CAN LIVE AND SMILE, AND LAUGH EVEN IN THE DARK CORNERS OF KAINENG, BECAUSE YOU BRING THE AIR OF VITALITY AND INNOVATION TO THE LUNGS OF OUR PROUD RACE.

I PERSONALLY AM VISITING VABBI THIS WEEKEND. I'VE BEEN ASKED TO GIVE A LECTURE TO NOBLES AND ASPIRING MONKS, LIKE MYSELF 10 YEARS AGO IN THE MONASTAIRES, ON THE BEAUTIES AND AMAZING POTENTIAL OF A TRAINED MONK. HEALING, PROTECTION, AND SMITING, I'M GOOD AT THEM ALL, I'VE BEEN RECOGNIZED BY ROYALTY FOR MY POWER, BUT NO MATTER HOW GREAT I BECOME I WILL REMEMBER TO HELP EACHOTHER LIVE, NOT KILL EACHOTHER, FOR MY FRIENDS IN THE KURZICK FORESTS AND MY LOVED ONES ON THE JADE SEA, AND I WILL REMEMBER TO SPREAD THE GOOD DEADS OF ARENA NET TO THEM, EVERYWHERE I GO, I WILL HELP THE CAUSE AND BE THE VOICE OF INSPIRIATION. AS WELL AS THE WONDERFUL ZAISHEN WHO GAVE ME MY SPEAR, UNLESS KUN SHAO YOU DON'T BUY ME A DRINK, HEHE (i am just kidding but you really do owe me). EVENTUALLY ONE DAY I WILL GIVE MY FLASHY SPEAR TO MY BEST FRIEND, AN ISTANI WOMAN WHO LOST HER FAMILY AS WELL AND ALMOST DIED BUT WAS RAISED BY A NICE NORN MOTHER WHO FOUND HER ALL THE WAY AT THE MOUNTAINS. NOW MY FRIEND IS A POWERFUL AND BEAUTIFUL PARAGON.

thankyou for listening and i hope i was able to show someone the beauty of our updates. we are lucky to be in the hands of dwayna and her friends in the universe, and arena net. maybe i'll see some of you in vabbi!!!! anyway peace and harmoy to everyone!! bye bye!!
 * I TOTALLY AGREE THE ZAISHEN ARE MY BEST FRIENDS FOREVER I REALLY LOVE THEM THEY ARE GREAT AND DONT TRUST KUN SHAO MAN HE NEVER BUYS ANYTHING AND ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO SAY I AM VERY HAPPY FOR YOUR FRIEND WHO IS VERY POWERFUL AND ALSO BEAUTIFUL AND I CANNOT WAIT FOR VABBI MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BYEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mini Me  [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 22:55, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It may be cruise control, but you still have to fucking drive Axel Zinfandel 22:56, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Omg is Tatiana Del Toro from Idol spamming the wiki now...all those capital letters hurt my eyes.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 22:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * AW MAN THAT SUCKS DOESNT IT YEAH (take a look at this though... :o) Mini Me  [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 23:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

wail nerf seemed pretty pointless, speaking linger still exists. stance nerf is meh. rend nerf is good. everything else is meh. -- Readem 23:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OMG TATIANA! *Starts crying hysterically and saying how much I love her bracelet* ... --- Shadowphoenix  [[Image:User Shadowphoenix Necromancer.png|19x19px]] 23:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh huh. --[[Image:User PoA Sig.png|Talk]] Antioch 02:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Paragons were the worst survivors in pvp before, 4 self-healing got buffed but no Leaders Comfort...If Anet dont want people play para in pvp they should announce. "Paragon is a paradox class and very hard balancing, so we over-nerfed it. Please don't play paragon in pvp. We apologize the inconvience."--RedTeaCat 08:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * There's an entire attribute line called Motivation which is devoted to healing skills. Paragons have the second- or third-highest armor in the game. They also have one of the best weapons, and a lot of very good attack skills to use with it - the best defense is a good offense. The thing that most players don't get is that Paragons only begin to truly get powerful when you stack them or otherwise coordinate their skills. Take a para into a random team and usually you're looking at failure. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 10:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you thinks it's "balanced" for some class can't play any 4-ppl team pvp at all? Not only in 4-ppl team pvp, Even in gvg and ha, paras are still inferior choice of midline. You play para now, you get owned. That's all. Pff, Nightfall is an epic fail, 1 usless class + large amount OP elites.--140.128.67.248 04:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, each class has things which they are good at, things they excel at, and things that they utterly fail at. (Except for Rangers and Mesmers, since they can do almost everything.) So I think it is balanced that some classes are not good in certain formats. Paras rock when you can get a bunch of them together, and/or have larger party sizes. Try to make a Paragon into a (solo) runner/flagger or play 1v1? Utter fail. tl;dr just as with skills, not every class ought to be equally viable, or even viable period for everything. Yeah, maybe that was a mistake on ANet's part to start going down that road, but to get out of it would require quite some massive redoing for paras etc. (btw, do you count AB etc. as 4-man or 12-man?) Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, It woul be nice if they at least fix some of the basics like Leader's Comfort. Worst healing skill I've seen for a primary attribute.--ShadowFog 14:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno, Pious Renewal is pretty shitty too. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The concept of a low cost, fast cast, spammable, highly maintenable ubber self heal have always been atractive. Because that way, team play is no more necessary for survival, and battles can be resumed in a face-slaping contest where the winner is the one whot got the more ubber self heal. Yseron - 86.209.66.36 15:45, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh?
Another dupe "glitch"? Honestly anet if its true wtf. I don't like being a downer but this coupled with free party points on the ever tonic is some gigantic bullshit for those of us who play by the rules. 76.20.238.253 16:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * QQ --<font color="#FFC125">King Of Kamelott [[Image:User_KingOfKamelott_sig.png|15px|Talk Page]] 17:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that tremendous insight. 76.20.238.253 18:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * How is that glitching and bugging you're doin coming along? Hopefully well, i'd hate to see you get banned or anything

LMAO
I finally switched to LoTRo eight weeks ago (and I'm very happy with it although it has no real PvP) and just look occassionally on the wiki HP from time to time. It were updates exactly like this that drove me away from all products that has written "Anet" or "NCsoft" on it. What are the last few skill updates supposed to do - removing all healing classes from the game? This is just plain ridiculous. You just dunno how to make a balanced and fun MMORPG... no surprise the impact of Guild Wars ("Guild-what?") on the market hits almost zero now. And if the responsible persons think GW2 would be a success after the desaster with GW1 they're plain stupid. If I only could understand whats running wrong in their heads? How did they manage to lose all and every contact to their common userbase? --82.83.48.212 18:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * GW -used- to be good, then Bad ideas turned into bad skill balancing, and the downward spiral left all of us wondering WTF they were doing. Axel Zinfandel 18:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're going to get lots of stupid QQ responses so I'll give you another serious one. Like above I think it all went downhill once they reinvented the game on-the-fly past Prophecies.  True they made some wonderful and necessary changes but the power creep has gotten to the point where its hysterical.  I wouldn't go so far to discredit them as a software company...at least wait and see what GW2 is like and if it has all the same flaws then flame away.  76.20.238.253 18:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OP it's nice to know that you are one of those nastolgic prophecies quirks, who believes the "old days" were the glory days. Same to all of you who continue posting these idiotic attacks.  Do you even remember how skills were back in the day?  For those of you who have an old original prophecies guide you should take a look at the skills in their early forms.  It's quite rediculous how overpowered many of the skills were. Malaise for example was originally 2 energy degen with its current use penalties of 2a2r5e.  Many other hexes were even more over powered than their current forms.  Activation times of many skills specifically elementalists were so high only an idiot could not miss them even with the old way ranger interrupts worked.  I too was ignorant about these things before in my views. So to all of you ignorants who continue to bash one update after another bcs of power creep and QQ about nerfs or whatever you happen to be crying about, you are all hypocrites.  Power creep does not exist in high level PvP for this game, and when it does you see action asap (Spoil Victor, Dark Aura + Shadow Walk, Searing Flames, blood spike on several occasions, etc.).  You want proof that power creep is minimal to nothing then hit "B" on your keyboard in game and observe how diverse frontlines and midlines are. Do you really believe that PvP is unbalanced?  4v4 yes, hexway rules. But Guild Wars PvP IS GvG and to a lesser extent HA and Halls.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 19:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Being the OP I didn't talk about any glory days although I was an early adopter of GW. I was quite satisfied with GW a year ago... but since the 911^H 12th of december update I really had enough. Whom TF are you talking about? About the maybe 500 people playing high to end level PvP? If Anet thinks it can afford to construct a game only for the top 1000 player - very nice. A tragic economic failure, but 50 guilds are happy at the end. 100.000 casual PvP players lost, mission accomplished. --82.83.48.212 20:16, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, making "100.000 casual PvP players" happy means to give you guys even more broken skills. Probably things like searing flames doing 300 damage with 1/4 cast and defensive stances lasting 20 seconds would suffice for scrubs like you, eh?Pika Fan 20:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You named a GvG only exploit, a massive skill interaction oversight, a spike out of line with other current options and an old gimmick that periodically shows up just like touchers do as proof we are all ignorant and that power creep is a myth. Very interesting.  We would seem to agree on arenas at least so its a start.  Lol@Pika.  76.20.238.253 20:29, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you aren't commenting specifically on the content of the article, you should take your concerns to a forum somewhere. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 20:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all IP82.83 sorry if I misjudged you in particular, I should not assume guilty by association. Now you assume too much though.  The mindset of a PvP player is not the same as that of a PvE player.  They will not abandon a game just because monks defensive stances were nerfed or bcs you now need to run an Rt/E or Rt/P to gain a move speed advantage (You're All Alone will fade when splits are smart enough to run together).  As for defensive stances it just makes me run tactics at 9 to gain my second back and an extra 8 armor off my shield set, net loss while i use it = 6AL, QQ so sad right...
 * PvPers care more about competition in the game more than minor annoyances such as skill updates. You'll lose as many as you'll gain from an update like this at most.


 * IP76.20 I do believe I established that it is minimal, which is how it should be in every game. If everything was perfectly balanced as people wish things could be, there would be no reason to intoduce new modifications to skills which would slowly wear on players as the games repetition would be very rigid. Saying it is nonexistant is emphasis for saying it is irrelavent currently.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 20:44, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Skill balancing is necessary on all accounts. All good MMOPRGs do it because it is necessary to keep the game's skills in check. Anet however is notorious for making bad moves involving [the aforementioned] irremovable problematic buffs, terrible skill balancing and ignoring the community on a whole.
 * Though the players are just as much the problem these days, as a lot PvP players still look down on PvE players wanting buffs/nerfs to skills even though it doesn't effect them anymore, and a general lack of communication in whether or not a person is talking about PvP or PvE when referring to skill changes.
 * Not to mention people simply saying 'QQ' instead of discussing the matter. Ok, most people are just whining, but I think it's safe to say if no one talked about any of this, Anet would be doing even worse a job of skill balancing Axel Zinfandel 04:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Guildwars 2 is the exact same thing as Guildwars 1, so everyone should base their opinions of Guildwars 2 on what's happened with Guildwars 1. Intelligent ideas for intelligent people!
 * Guildwars 2 will not be the same as Guildwars 1, so everyone should base their opinions of Guildwars 2 on the information that has been and will be released on Guildwars 2. Informed ideas for informed people! 145.94.74.23 14:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Back
He's back! --96.238.120.5 15:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Who is?--66.252.176.74 20:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * me ! :DD --99.244.204.77 03:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Anons FTW! --72.90.53.169 12:44, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Awsum anons r awsum! <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  12:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

D-strike
I don't play actively anymore, but was still sad to see one of my favorite skills nerfed into oblivion :(  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  19:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just glad they didn't do the AChop thing this time. --75.71.67.5 19:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe they will nerf Distracting Blow because "Easy to gain adrenaline and interrupts multiple foes". D.Strike was used because of the damage and now it shatters in front of D.Blow and with the lack of Cracked Armor skills it doesnt make it attractable.--ShadowFog 21:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe you could use a bit of brains.Pika Fan 21:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just better developers and players.--ShadowFog 21:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Naturally, your needing to exercise your (lack) of cranial capacity has nothing to do with developers or players. Unfortunately, once again I have overestimated you, and I sincerely apologize.Pika Fan 21:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Drop the personal attacks pika. --JonTheMon 21:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's just his E-penis sucking all the blood from his brain, don't worry. Axel Zinfandel 17:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently you don't even have a brain to have blood sucked out from, because penises don't suck; penises are there to be sucked. Get your facts right.Pika Fan 22:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What Jon said (this includes insulting mentions of various person's genetalia). --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 08:56, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Pika Fan, you have fabulous genetalia. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  09:36, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A monkey could figure out how to fix this much more quickly. Just change it to "If you don't interrupt a skill, this does no damage". --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.64.5.61 (talk).
 * d-strike = drama strike?
 * You're all retarded. It needs a revert.  There is nothing to discuss.  Shut up.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  21:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Burn. Syntheticfibers 02:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)