ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Weapon of Remedy

Shard's Discussion
Disagree. This elite is only good because the rest of the ritualist elites are bad. -- Armond Warblade 18:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, Shard just hates ritus, nothing new there. 134.130.183.235 19:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, the "life advantage" created is only under ideal circumstances. Should either side not be able to take full advantage of the skill, it'll be different. -- Armond Warblade 21:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The only way this skill doesn't steal the max amount of life is if the target never gets hit during that 8 seconds. I don't hate rits.  Just because most of the rit skills suck does not give them the right to have outrageously broken skills.  This isn't about how useless 99% of rit skills are.  This is about how the other 1% of them break the game in every arena. The thing about "other rit skills suck" is that, guess what, you don't have to bring them.  Rits load up on res sig and 7 overpowered skills every time, regardless of how bad the rest of the profession is.  That makes them a problem. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 23:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, if anything I'd say 3⁄4 cast time and 5s recharge, with just 7s recharge at the extreme end of the spectrum. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 23:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

don't put every singl rit skill into this page just coz u hat rits, this is an elite and it's not overpowered , stop the whine. this skill is fine the way it is now, doesn't need any buffs/nerfs 189.70.157.91 00:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Meh. Rits are overpowered. Deal with it. Whether this skill is or not is up for discussion. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 00:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, now since i slowly start to think you really belief what you write yourself i try to explain it to you one last time. By your sense of balance Reversal of Fortune, Glimmer of Light and Word of Healing all would be extremly broken because they are all uninteruptable, unremovable, unstoppable 100 to potentially unlimited (rof) health advantages that are all very spamable. You really need to realize that balance in gw is not about 2 guys nuking it out seeing who drops first. It's a little bit more complex than that. A big drawback of Weapon of Remedy for example is that you can not direct nor time the damage it might deal, making it worth much less than the full advertised damage. If you constantly loose against weapon of remedy spam you might want to rethink your tactics. Degen, life leech and big dmg packets work very well against it as much as small dmg packets work great against rof. Beetlejuice 02:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Reversal of Fortune is a punishment skill directly related to damage dealt, so it's fine. Also, it can't kill people.
 * RoF's Average Life Advantage at 15: 80
 * Glimmer is overpowered. I never said it wasn't.  This discussion isn't about glimmer, it's about WoR.  Also, it can't kill people.
 * Glimmer's Life Advantage at 15: 115
 * Word of Healing is very interruptable. Also, it can't kill people.
 * WoH's Average Life Advantage at 15: 180
 * Weapon of Remedy is everything you mentioned. Also, it can kill people.
 * WoR's Average life advantage at 15: 150 + condition removal.
 * Not directed? Any rit with half a brain knows exactly who's going to lose the life 99% of the time.  Balance in GW is not about 2 guys nuking it out seeing who drops first.  It's a little bit more complex than that.  Sometimes, when one skill is clearly better than everything else to the point where it ruins gameplay, people call it "broken" and suggest that the developers fix it to make the game fair. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 03:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This "life advantage" thing? Fixed by a monk. Again, ideal circumstances = not realistic. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 03:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please explain. I listed average life adv, not the max.  Rof and Woh have much higher adv.
 * I have no idea what you mean by "Ideal Circumstances," as WoR always steals 75 no matter how much damage you take. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 05:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think this skill is overpowered, and the proposed nerf would murder it, which is bad.--Skye Marin 05:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would the nerf murder it? How would it be any different from, say, Dismiss Condition, but with a guaranteed heal?  People run dismiss. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 05:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Dismiss also isn't elite and doesn't require someone to hit you to activate. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 06:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I said the damage isn't directed. If 2-4 ppl beat on your teammate you have no way to damage one of them specifically. Neither can you target high priority targets like monks with it. So unless you have very stupid enemies you can't kill with weapon of remedy either. Only problem is, you can't keep someone alive aswell. Those others can. But that's it for me now. I don't know why i always waste my time trying to explain to you how this game works. You obviously can't or don't want to understand. Beetlejuice 11:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Shard, you listed RoF as 80, but it's actually double whatever it heals. RoF's "life advantage" can be up to 160 not counting Divine Favor. If not for RoF the character would have taken that much damage. It also has a much shorter recharge than WoR and all of that damage prevention and healing goes towards supporting the guy you want to support. The reason WoR sees play is the condition removal + the healing + the damage. It is a bar compression skill, which is why it's used in arenas and split. Another reason it's used in those places is that you can make use of the damage it causes. Your "life advantage" concept doesn't apply unless that damage needs to be directly healed, in other words, if it's a threat. In 8v8 it is not a threat. Party healing cleans it up because it's not directed. In split/arena, there are only a few targets, so random damage like that is more effective. It forces people to use time and energy to heal it back up. In that case, it's a good skill, but not game breaking by any means. --TimeToGetIntense 15:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Notice how I put "Average Life Advantage" on it? Average means "add the possible values and divide by that number."  Rof negates 0-160 damage, so its average heal is 80.  Thanks for coming to a balance discussion with 4th grade math.
 * What the hell are you talking about direct heals for? It IS a direct heal.  If you WoR someone who needs health, there's a 99% chance they're taking some sort of damage, and there's a 99% chance that in the next 8 seconds, they'll take more damage.
 * Fact: This skill does 30 net life adv per energy and removes a condition. You can't interrupt it, you can't precounter it, you can't postcounter it, you cant stop its damage and there is no viable way to stop its healing.  That's the very definition of broken, it doesn't matter how you use it. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 00:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Except that you're ignoring that this is a team game. If you're doing it right, you'll have more than half your team pressuring different targets and converging on a spike. In the big picture, this skill is far from unbalanced. Would you attack through VwK or Spiteful Spirit?--Skye Marin 03:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No I wouldn't, because I can tell when those are coming up or already are up. You can't stop attacking/casting within a 1/4 second of a cast you see somewhere else.  Your said counter for WoR basically is "dont attack anyone on their team, dont attack their split, don't attack their countersplit" which is moronic. If you think this is "far from unbalanced," you shouldn't be posting here. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 04:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You could be a bit less rude, Shard. They're right - in the grand scheme of things, the 70 health you gain isn't that important, nor is the 70 health they lose. "Life advantage" is a clumsy concept; the numbers that actually matter are the ones in the red bars going up. This does far less DPS than a warrior, and heals far less than a monk; it's a combination of the two that works fine. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 04:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Shard, this is getting rediculous. The vast majority of the stuff you post is useless garbage. You don't care if a skill is a problem or not, you just claim stuff to be overpowered based on pure numbers. The most heavily abused skills in the game's history were overpowered for reasons having nothing to do with amounts of raw damage or healing. --TimeToGetIntense 07:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * history* -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 07:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't put any recent meta skills on the list because the level of competition has been abyssmal lately. I have no doubt that the oldschool guilds wouldn't have been phased by that ineptitude garbage. Clumsiness and Ineptitude are currently weaker than they were a year ago and back then they were considered bad skills. Then all the good people quit. --TimeToGetIntense 09:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * [dR] fought with and against sineptitude, and, as I'm sure you know, they're a combination of [iQ] and [QQ]. Perhaps [WM] or [EvIL] would have had enough skill to stop attacking with a quarter second's notice... but I doubt it. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 09:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What matters is, unlike Reversal of Fortune and Reversal of Damage, Weapon of Remedy and Vengeful Weapon do not negate damage.. Zealous 14:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And that's a big point. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 18:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

this is not overpowered at all, don't whine so much about this , you're just trying to kill every single ritualist skill 189.70.114.42 16:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * who count life advantage? wtf? the only problem i could see is the recharge, if anything at all. its much like Vengeful Weapon and is supposed to be an elite version of it, and as such u cannot nerf it down to the same level or close to. --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 18:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Armond, Clumsiness and Ineptitude were stronger than they are now when [WM] and [EviL] played yet no one used them. --TimeToGetIntense 23:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

lol. no. Time, no they weren't. -- Readem 23:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Old: Now:Ineptitude history prove u wrong sir. --Cursed Angel  23:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The only thing that's changed is the duration, which doesn't matter anyway. The damage scale hasn't changed - the 142 figure from the old one is at 16 spec, the 135 from the new one is at 15 spec. --24.9.234.253 23:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Erm, when WM/EviL played, it did about 90 damage at 16 illusion :/. -- Readem 23:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Clum had a 10 sec rec, and only did 97 damage, at 16 illusion. -- Readem 00:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Clum had a 1 sec cast time and 8 sec duration, now its 2 sec cast time and 4 sec duration amirite? if u really think that the adjacent aoe is so easy to take advantage of then i dont know what to say, that was a pve buff for all the nerfs the skill took, adjacent doesnt help in pvp. And y, ineptitude cant u even mention is better now, 10 duration > 4 duration but u seem to disagree. --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 00:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're casting Ineptitude on someone, they're attacking. If they're attacking, they aren't going to be able to stop attacking in time to avoid triggering Ineptitude.  Therefore, duration doesn't matter. --24.9.234.253 00:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Additionally, your partner in the melee spike will disagree with you when you say adjacent AoE is negligible. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 07:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not neccessary to have both Warriors on the same target during spikes. AoE melee shutdown is nothing new. BSurge has always worked like that since your team is pretty much guaranteed to run Aegis. Go KD one of the Monks or the clums mesmer during the spike. Also, you don't need to spike. You can get kills with pressure.
 * I think we've digressed enough though... Although everyone seems to agree that WoR is fine... --TimeToGetIntense 23:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * All of you need to try new builds. Also, please explain why life advantage is clumsy? That's what 99% of PvP in Guild Wars is based on.  Every other strategy game on the planet has a nearly identical concept.  What if this skill did 75 directed damage in 1/4 second with its recharge (and no heal)?  Would it be broken?  Wielder's Strike Lamentation.  We can quote nerfed skills all day, but what it comes down to is this: This skill is more flexible than any other skill in the game and collectively more powerful than any other skill in the game, regardless of when or how you use it.  I won't check this page anymore due to the excessive amount of retardation coming from most of the people here.  If you would like to have an intelligent debate (like how Armond's posts are), I have a talk page.  Of all the people that disagree with me, he's the only one whose posts I consider, because quite frankly, he doesn't act like a complete moron. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 03:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If it were just flat damage, yes, it would be broken, because it would be essentially unavoidable. Start using this in a match and people will notice it and, if they're smart, be careful about attacking guys with weapon spells. Also, you can't lolspamspike with it as it is now, which you could if it were just flat damage. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 04:30, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried to use it against bloodspike, but all I got was a dead team. ): --71.229.204.25 03:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is useful on splits, and one of the few usable ritualist elites. It is nothing more, nothing less. -- Readem 05:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed --Shadetz X 08:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Shard, you're a complete retard. If you can't tell the difference between _undirected_ and _directed_ damage, and why one gets cleaned up by party healing, and the other kills things, then you really shouldn't be talking about PvP.  This skill is fine, "life advantage" or not.  It's only really strong in splits, which is why people put it on their rit runners.  --Symbol 13:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

can we remove Shard's retard suggestion? 189.70.147.128 15:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that it is strong but not strong enough to be nerfed. The lifesteal is inline with Vampiric Touch or Angorodon's Gaze (whereas Vengeful Weapon is inline with Vampiric Gaze/Jaundiced Gaze). The condition is removed after the damage clause making it useless as preprot against most condition applications so it would be a delayed condition removal that exposes you to damage. (since removal occurs after damage) It won't save you from dying from degen and won't stop life steal, hexes, and packet damage either. It won't take Deepwound off Sever-Gash or Blind from Blinding Surge. In addition, if Shard's nerfs got implemented there would be no reason to run this over Vengeful Weapon + Wielder's Remedy (though most times it is run with Vengeful rather than instead of). -Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 04:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I find it stupid that a healing spell does more damage than most warrior attack skills. This has to be counterable - right now, the only counter to it is "don't attack their team." ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 00:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Warrior attack skills also do base damage and have a target. Weapon of Remedy is a relief to damage, it won't stop people from heavy melee. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I hurd diversion was gud --118.90.40.163 03:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * So is Degen and heavy hexes :P!!!! Aljazya 13:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Degen doesn't counter this skill. Neither do hexes.  What's your point? This skill is fine because it's possible to beat teams who run it? ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 11:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Learn to use diversion. 216.218.214.2 15:16, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes Shard it is. Prokiller88 22:13, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you think something's balanced simply because it's possible to beat it, you fail at life. 72.235.48.41 15:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Where is this skill actually used? GvG runners? And...that's pretty much it outside of PvE. The majority of Rits in other PvP formats are supporters using OoS. 76.89.81.150 15:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

The skill isn't in need of nerfing, as an elite it's not OP. The entire skill is conditional, its heal is average, the damage isn't directed, and the condition removal is what makes it elite compared to vengeful, RoD, and RoF. The life advantage argument was flawed plus RoD + RoF do the same anyways. And as always diversion works against spam skills and humility works against elites. The Sins We Die By 21:35 March 2008 (UTC)

This whole suggestion looks like Shard v. entire GW community. No one seems to support your views, Shard. Diversion is a key counter, and any nerf would most likely put this skill completely out of play.--8765 20:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the GW community is made up of bad players who use the skills in need of changes. I'll say it again: This skill is not conditional!  You have to purposefully cast it on something not in combat in order to make it not work (which is true for all other heals).  My advice to anyone who thinks this skill is fine: Play something other than spiritway. It's apalling that even Izzy took 2 years to discover how broken it is. But then again, he doesn't play his own game, and that's why nothing ever gets fixed. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 05:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If this skill gets nerfed it's basis for the 3 similar to it to have the same happen, and since it's not an OP Elite there is no reason to. The Sins We Die By 6:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * shard your entire arguement is based on "life advantage" which is by far the worst way to consider the power of a skill, according to your "life advantage" fire storm has 350 life advantage, oh wait technically 10 people will stand in the aoe which causes firestorm average life advantage to be roughly 3500... IMBA!!! nerf I say!, this skill is roughly as good as RoF, with the only thing making it elite is the fact it removes condition. 76.26.189.65 11:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I love when people who don't know math try to compare two distinctly unrelated things. If firestorm hit 10 times in .25 seconds, you would be right.  Fortunately, there are ways of avoiding it without sacrificing much.  In order to avoid WoR, you have to not hit someone for 8 seconds.  A skill that costs almost nothing, has no recharge, and can't be interrupted should not give the opponent the choice of "die or let him be invincible."  That's not balance. Learn how to play real builds. ~Shard (talk) 02:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Shard your forgetting a small detail though, this skill is right on par with rev of fortune and rev of damage not including the condition removal. The difference is that monks have divine favor bonuses going with their skills so the life advantage is actually more for those two skills. The best you can do with a rit is extend WoR's duration, but that can be done to the other two skills with a weapon mod, though that's an entirely moot point since the duration isn't that significant but I'm just covering all the bases.  The only problem I can still see you having logically is that WoR uses it's full effect regardless of how much damage the target takes, but to me that doesn't matter so much given a monks DF is going to be 9+ so that's an automatic 30 in healing there at least.  The condition removal is really what makes the skill elite, as the rest of it is just on par with those other two.  I do see where you are coming from with your issue though, and while I wouldn't necessarily agree with this I could see WoR being nerfed to Vengeful's numbers and wouldn't complain. ~>Sins WDB[[Image:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png]] 03:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Invincible? 60 lifesteal wont make someone invincible, only in EXTREMLY small formats would this skill be OP (1vs1) but skills arent balanced around that, this is one of the VERY few skills in restoration that are pushing a 'none monk' healer, and at the end of the day none elite versions of it from monk are just as good as it is. Also I just love it when people sneak an insult, such as "play real builds" or "less gimmick please" thier pretty much useless phrases. 76.26.189.65 00:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Excuse me? This is the only skill pushing non-monk healers?  EVERY nonelite rit heal is better than EVERY monk nonelite heal.  The ONLY thing keeping monks in the metagame is their elites.  If rits had WoH, you would see ZERO monks in GvG, we already see zero monks in HA.
 * It's not only in small groups, this skill is good anytime, anyplace. Why do rits have an offensive skill in their healing attribute?  That's the problem with rits - they require little attribute points to be overpowered. 72.235.48.41 13:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Incorrect, what's keeping monks over rit's is that monks are just better at keeping a party alive, their conditional are also much easier to fulfill than those of the ritualist. The other thing is divine favor which as I said earlier adds a nice 30+ healing to everything.  Rit's cant rely on spirits and combinations of their skills are not as effective as a monks, also monk skills tend to be quicker than the rit's heals.  Your looking at the numbers only, and not thinking about the entire scope of things such as a 17% health sac for spirit light, or a loss of condition removal for MBaS with no spirit, or that patient spirit, healer's boon, healer's covenant are much easier to combo skills with and more effect than spirits, items and weapon spells. WoR is probably the one skill that has a weak enough conditional and strong enough effect to outdo something a monk does.  It's the best skill in the game for a minor heal, a bit of damage, and condition removal.  Smite Condition with smiter's boon is almost as good it's just lacking on recharge and cast but that is non-elite.~>Sins  WDB [[Image:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png]] 15:42, 13 April 2008
 * Divine favor puts the monk heals on par with rits. By playing a monk, you're sacrificing 80+ attribute points just to match the healing power of a rit.  Stop bringing Divine Favor into this argument, it's a completely separate game mechanic.
 * Monk skills are quicker than rit heals? What game are you playing?
 * I'm not saying a full heal rit can outbeat a full heal monk - they can't, but a 13resto, 14channel rit has the damage output of an ele and the healing of a mediocre monk, almost as if it's two people. People bring rits to pvp because they're so inherently broken that you absolutely need one (or more) in order to win.  WoR is so flexible, cheap, and spammable that it's probably the best skill in the game right now.  This is their most overpowered elite, and it's the only reason rt splits become unstoppable.
 * Smite condition with Smiter's Boon is 1: Removable, 2: Interruptable, and 3: has a recharge. WoR has none of those qualities.  Even if WoR was weak, it would be inherently broken because it is uncounterable.
 * WoR is a minor heal? It heals more than Orison, a staple! ~Shard (talk) 22:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Shard you know as well as I do you can't just compare a skill to a skill. You must compare skill uses.  Therefore divine favor is part of this discussion as well as skill combinations.  WoR is an elite skill, probably the most useful in the game on it's own, but not the most powerful overall, the most powerful skill in the game is probably either healer's covenant, healer's boon, or Signet of Illusions.  The difference I see that justifies the quick cast and recharge is if the other three are not addressed by the other team the skills are far more effective than WoR in a build.  I'll make another smiter's boon comparison while I'm at it.  By putting Smiter's Boon and Rev of Damage in a bar you already are doing better than WoR minus the condition removal.  Throw in Smite Condition and (since you brought up channeling) you are doing better than Ancestor's Rage and WoR.  I know Smiter's Boon is strippable, but with a 10 second recharge I'd guess the most your without it is 8 seconds vs the 30 or 36 seconds you'll have it on when people decide there are better enchants worth stripping. So with those 3 normal skills you're doing better than an elite and a normal skill, though your sacrificing cast time for a quicker recharge and armor ignoring on Smite Condition.  Basically it's an elite skill that does A LOT, but by no means does it blow everything else out of the water.  Individually yes, I'll give you that, but in a build it's not miles ahead, and when someone pulls off a lucky diversion you'll see that a WoR build Die in effectiveness, b/c it's relying on 1 skill to do so much.~>Sins  WDB [[Image:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png]] 23:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This is one of the few Weapon Spells I would not classify as incredibly broken. I could imagine a small recharge nerf, but in effect it has three seperate clumsy effects; untargeted damage, small targeted heal and condition removal (but only conditions before the attack lands; so it doesn't remove cripshots poison for example). It's strength, is it's excellent versatility and bar compression because of this combination. I could imagine a recharge nerf to 5, but anything more than that and it becomes essentially useless. Akirai Annuvil 18:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine, let's bring Divine Favor into this argument, even though it shouldn't be. 194 attribute points towards the average 5energy monk heal = 97 points towards the average rit heal.  Those aren't linear, so I can't say rit heals are twice as good as monk heals, but I can say you're wrong about the power levels of most of the rit heals.  As you're saying it, Divine Favor is a requirement for monks, not a bonus (as primary atts should be).  Rits have a built in divine favor on their heals.  Why do 99% of HA teams (and 33% of gvg teams) run N/Rt healers?  Because they're better than monks.
 * Stop bringing 3rd party mechanics into arguments. It's like saying necro skills are better than mesmer skills because necros have infinite energy. ~Shard (talk) 00:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe you see it as wrong, but I feel all things, or as many things as possible, should be considered when balancing otherwise we'll end up seeing holes that result in major imbalances. Like I said earlier though, WoR is probably the best stand alone skill in the game I'll admit that. I don't feel that it having that position makes it OP though for reason I've previously addressed. ~>Sins  WDB [[Image:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png]] 01:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

this skill isnt rly overpowerd, but axe it anyway, whatever it takes to get a broken class out of play--87.54.149.248 11:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd hardly call a class "broken" when only one or two builds using said class are seen in serious play. 76.89.81.150 00:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Kinda not why it's broken. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 20:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Unadvisable
Wow thats one heated discussion... I cant tell who here loves Rits enough to make them better, or hates then enough to remove a 'broken' class from play? Either, way, I advise against tempering WoR until all other Rit & Non-rit elties area brought up to speed. Bless you Armond and your campaign to buff Hex-removal, but just as with Izzy's comments regarding hexes, this Elite is unlikely to be touched unless the current Meta-game demands a shifts in a drastic new direction. --Falconeye 15:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Rits are seen as weak to some and overpowered to others because of how they were designed. The way they were designed is no longer functional, so we're left with "leftover" skills instead.  Imagine Warriors without attack skills, that's pretty much what rits are.  Right now, they have a tiny handful of usable skills, and most of those are very overpowered.  This results in 2 responses
 * People without intelligence claim rits as underpowered because they have mostly weak skills, which has absolutely nothing to do with how they perform.
 * People with intelligence claim rits as overpowered because people only use the 5% of skills that are broken and ignore the weak ones, thus we have a class that is broken 100% of the time.
 * Unfortunately, stupid people dominate 90% of this planet, so that's why 90% of the people here think rits are fine. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * see Active Rituals System (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Lancy1214/Ritualist) since you are obviously among the elite 10%, i'd love hear you comments regarding this. --Falconeye 01:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * More to the point, while I agree that this skill is OP, I worry that Shard's hate of it is driving him to suggest nerfs which are actually too big for it. Everything in moderation, after all. :-) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:82.3.255.222 (talk).
 * I don't suggest nerfs too big unless it's obviously a joke. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:48, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Then your definition of "big" is a lot different than everyone else's. Bathory 07:29, 21 January 2009 (UTC)