User:Gem/Request for balancing PvE

What is this page about?
PvE in Guild Wars is too easy. There's no harm in having normal mode pretty easy, since that's what new players play and there is a large portion of players who like to play casually and don't like hard (or for them almost impossible) areas of the game. The hard mode is a different story however. It's called "hard mode" for a reason. It's meant to offer better or more hard core players more challenges than normal mode. When first introduced, hard mode really was hard in the more advanced areas of the game. After that however the difficulty level has plummeted with the addition of PvE-only skills and items in the Eye of the North expansion.

This page is here to ask for changes in the system so that hard mode could once again offer challenges to players. PvE-only items offer huge boosts to players with minimal cost and effort. Any player can easily farm some gold to purchase piles of these items and as a result anyone is able to complete any mission or vanquish any area in hard mode with almost no effort since those hard mode areas were originally designed for use when these items weren't a part of the game.

And no, this is not just about "diminished value of titles" and definitely not about "ruined economy". This is about adding some challenge to the game so that there is some point other than smashing buttons while watching TV. It's too late to fix the problem completely, but there are a lot of possibilities to make PvE more balanced again without pissing off the majority of the players.

See the following list for the ridiculous bonuses available to a player. Note that the party wide bonuses mainly stack with the personal bonuses, and you can have all of these at the same time. The durations carry from 10 to 30 minutes, allowing the party to survive the hardest parts of a mission or vanquishing trip very easily. And if someone manages to die, DP removal is always at hand in too many ways to count.

What a player can do with the PvE-only items outside of towns

 * +220 maximum health
 * +20 maximum energy
 * +33% speed boost
 * +2 to all attributes
 * +1 health regeneration
 * +5 armor
 * +33% increase to your attack speed
 * 73% reduction to your skill activation time

Also:
 * A 5%/10% Morale Boost to you
 * Remove 15%/all of your Death Penalty

What a player can do for the whole party (some also stack with the players personal bonuses)

 * +100 maximum health
 * +10 maximum energy
 * +1 to all attributes
 * +1 health regeneration
 * +10 armor
 * 5 point damage reduction
 * Immunity to critical hits
 * +20% increase to attack speed
 * +20% increase to movement speed
 * 20% reduction to skill activation time

Also:
 * Give a 5%/10% Morale Boost to the whole party
 * Remove 5%-15% Death Penalty from the whole party
 * Remove all Death Penalty from the whole party and give everyone a 10% Morale Boost
 * Resurrect all party members within earshot to your location with 25% health and 0 energy.

Ways to fix the situation
My new favourite idea: Add something similiar to Summoning Sickness which prevents the party from using more than one major PvE-only item in one area. 'Major items' include anything that gives more than one bonus, resurrects players, etc.

This still leaves the problem of using massive amounts of candy cane to bang your party through a hard mode vanquish, but this is a start.

See User talk:Gem/Request for balancing PvE/Archive for a good list of other solutions, which combined to this one might make the day.

Other issues
Not directly related to the PvE-only items, but there's also the Ursan Blessing issue. Fixxed.

Petition
I would like players to sign here if they want the PvE mode made harder once again. The exact methods can be discussed on the talk page.


 * 1) -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk)
 * 2) --Kalomeli [[Image:User Kalomeli sig.png]] (talk)
 * 3) - Auron  08:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) --  pullus  [[Image:User_Pullus_Sig.png|Sig]] talk 09:43, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) --  Calor   &mdash;  talk  17:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) - FireFox  [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 17:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) --Erasculio 21:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) --Racthoh 23:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) &mdash; Skuld 00:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 03:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) Fumetsu 09:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 12) Nyktos 21:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 13) my title is nub now QQ &mdash; Skakid9090 21:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 14) Ashes Of Doom 22:32, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 15) I hate the way people with money have an edge over everyone else by being able to buy consumables to help them; this isn't just a gold sink, it's unfair. &mdash;Ebany Salmonderiel  21:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 16) --Longasc 08:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 17) got me on your side, gem :) - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px|Have a look at my page]] 12:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 18) El_Nazgir
 * 19) -- Gordon Ecker 09:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 20) Rhydeble 18:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 21)  Broodling [[Image:User Broodling67 sig.PNG]] 00:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 22) 71.229.204.25 07:41, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 23) Lord Urun 08:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 24) Antiarchangel 14:14, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 25) Destructos Maximus 16:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 26) Awren
 * 27) Turns To Despair Xx
 * 28) 67.191.245.177 18:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 29) Coran Ironclaw 06:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 30) --  Arkhar 
 * 31) [[Image:User Limu Tolkki sig2.jpg|Limu Tolkki]] (Limu Tolkki - talk) 21:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 32) Cassie 11:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 33) SilentStorm 02:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 34) --24.47.41.80 13:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 35) Pakuna 08:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 36) MiraLantis 21:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 37) That may be too late for GW1 but let's hope it wont happen in GW2. Serge Yseron 21:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC) / The Mole I WOuld Like To Find
 * 38) Combatter 18:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 39) 83.249.119.162 11:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 40) &sect;Azhure Sun Soar 07:13, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 41) Dominator Matrix  07:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 42) Yankeefan984
 * 43) Cameronl | talk 05:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 44) Boromir 20:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 45) [[Image:User Defiant Elements Sig Image.JPG|19x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  23:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 46) - Anything that involves ramming the nerf hammer up the stupid bear's hiney b.r  // talk  14:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 47) --[[Image:Lava spider.jpg|19px]] Spider 14:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 48) This is why I did not buy EOTH and will probably not buy GW2. --Ryard 17:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 49) - Warior Kronos [[Image:User_Warior_Kronos_Sig.jpg|18px|]] 19:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC) EoTN Consumables and Ursan ftl...
 * 50) --  NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 51)  &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 03:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 52) -- Dmitri Fatkin 17:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Jaaameees, nerf! hehe
 * 53) -- Mango 23:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Changed my mind, I want PVE to be balanced. Not some stuff overnerfed, and some stuff strong, but real balance. Obviously, none of this will happen. =[
 * 54) -- User:The New Bp 16.39, 12 June 2008
 * 55) - [[Image:User Why Are We Fighting BlackRose.jpg|Talk]]Why ? 23:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 56) 71.192.171.162 01:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 57) 76.188.100.220 20:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 58) [[Image:Ranger-tango-icon-200.png|18px]]Maeve  06:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 59) numma_cway 18:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 60) Draikin 06:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 61) --King Of Kamelott 18:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 62) (Bunny) 98.21.13.130 21:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 63) Spawnlegacy 21:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 64) Denizen Zero 08:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 65) I'm with you bro, but ANet is more inactive than a 40-people Bulgarian guild. Ninjas In The Sky  11:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC) rofl Spawnlegacy 12:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 66) PvP Items are more overpowered then Ursan :/ &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:User_Poki_Signature.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]] 13:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 67) --Robot 16:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 68) I'm signing for Ursan to be nerfed. If PvE is too easy, try hard mode. Phill Gaston 22:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 69) Signing for everything. And phill, Hardmode isnt hard when you have a imbagon+consumables.<font color="Purple">Oni  [[Image:User Oni sig.png|19px|User talk:Oni]] 06:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 70) Want the Necro to have more minions again! more fun. Mr HaXx 10:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 71) Make hard mode hard plz ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 72) Psychiatric Consultant 21:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 73) Hell yes. -[[Image:User Vorith Shadow Ursan.jpg|18px]]  Vorith  (talk•contribs) 01:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 74) Disregarding the fact that Petitions don't mean much for Anet. I'll sign. (Terra Xin 06:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
 * 75) EoN "deleted" HM and elite areas.--Brainless Thought 14:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 76) Ursan... my hatreds towards you runs deep deep... 89.138.106.144 17:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 77) (ingame= General Murgahn) please a-net nerf ursan.  Elite areas are meant to be for the ELITE not for the people that can't play the game very well.  The ELITE missions/dungeons aren't very elite when a group of 6 ursans and 2 hb monks can go in and tear up the place with little to no effort. unfortunately, i know you are not goign to read this :) 24.22.235.171 23:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 78) (oh look a bear...) SMACK WITH THIS NERF BAT!!!!!!! Mcdertr 00:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 79) Nerf Ursan Blessing [NUB] ^^ (No. 80, i think)Lt Death 00:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 80) Even though they saved me once or twice, I agree. This is killing PvE. Give us normalway in elite areas again. -- karen [[Image:User Karen sig.png]] 11:00, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 81) Gimme Shelter, pl0x. -- Ezekial Riddle 17:06, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 82) /signed. Even though its impossible to find groups with my prof of choice. Kelvin Greyheart 03:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 83) --  Mini Me ''' [[Image:User Mini Me sig.png|19px|talk]] 11:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 84) -- 84.1.194.144 08:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC) Ing: Monokli Oszto
 * 85) If ANet does this, I just might reinstall and buy GW2. --SoraMitsukai 18:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 86) I think consumables were a bad idea. I'd be OK if they just killed the Powerstone, though. That's the real killer. -  Krelus Derian 22:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 87) I want Ursan to be removed. Consumables should be point 2. 217.126.155.7 16:20, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 88) <font style="Jokerman" color="#4eaaff">T he <font style="jokerman" color="#4eaaff">C abal  [[Image:User The Cabal Sig pic 02.jpg|19px|Summer FTW!]] 12:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 89) Zenikoetsu 15:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 90) Somerandomguy 04:51, 12 August 2008
 * 91) 75.191.186.158 13:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 92) Ive never used these myself but they do seem a bit imba... <font color="CadetBlue">Nalana [[Image:User Nalana Darkling Blue Eye2.jpg|19px]]<font color="SkyBlue"> Talk   13:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 93) Holy Mountains 18:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 94) --Kalas Silvern 06:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 95) Kinda getting bored of solofarming UW, ToPK, Kryta HM...╙─[[Image:User Dogzrdogz Sig.jpg|19px]] ╠<font color="Black">Dogzrdogz ╣ talk 04:04, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 96) -- Cat Slayer   Calli  [[Image:User Cat Slayer Calli signature.png]] 12:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 97) This is definitely needed. I like how the game was originally designed in prophecies with no pve skills or cons.  Evil Penguin 02:10, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 98) 85.139.44.159 18:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 99) --AlexEternal 19:10, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 100) --Nessarose 19:50, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 101) Crimmastermind 09:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 102) This tiny little IP wants it, too: 77.186.76.210 14:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 103) Oh hell, Raine signed it, this MUST be serious. Raine Valen 18:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 104) Count me in as well [[image:User Crystal_Myr_Signiature.png]]Crystal Myr 04:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 105) but is it too little too late for GW the dead game? 72.177.204.158 18:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 106) This game is now just grind, no skill. Look at my page for the box. Dav 15:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * 107) --Bekkr 03:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 108) Grinding all day and night, hope this will be changed --CAJOS talk 19:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 109) "GLF so-and-so for so-and-so... MUST HAVE CONSET" >_< Rose Of Kali 12 November 2008
 * 110) Swordfish56 06:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 111) Velico
 * 112) Mediggo 11:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 113) I totally agree, even though i prefer casual NM play, it needs to be more challanging and fun. DeathByAnArrow74.210.50.20 04:32, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 114) -- [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Vow of Silence Gah Sig.jpg]] <font color="Navy">Gah  21:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 115) user: Sword Master Drake
 * 116) Just nerf thems Xaphan67 19:21, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 117) Remy 19:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 118) ~ Chao Every signature helps, no? I'd very much like to see PvE back to its former glory :)
 * 119) -- Tai <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">21:01, 31 March 2009 
 * 120) Death to perma UWSC!! --Aartist21 07:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 121) Ursan down, Perma SF, Imbagon, Cryway, and d-slash godmode still left. (along with cons still) -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 07:27, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 122) --Arty 11:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 123) Alexanderpas Talk|Contrib|Guild 23:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 124) --Deleet 17:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 125) They should just remove cons and PvE only skills. Then HM would resemble more of a challenge. King Neoterikos 22:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 126) I have a raging hatred for not being able to kill anything cuz it's already dead!!! Haru 02:19, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 127) Leave the pre EOTN PvE skills imo. Kill everything else (that still leaves the Imbagon, but meh) 89.172.39.12 06:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 128) The problem isn't the areas but the combination of skills...a 600 tank monk using a basic 3 skills and a smiter monk can solo almost any dungeon in HM...yet some dungeons are actually fairly difficult for regular groups
 * 129) My main problem is the running and farming of the perma and 600/smite, kill those, and consider removing ALL eotn consumables and removing the effect of the consumables usable in explorable areas... -  Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg|18px]] 15:45, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 130) —User_Rein_sig.png Re  in  04:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 131) - Lilondra [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  08:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 132) -[[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] 16:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 133) ~ A R A ~ 00:13, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 134)  &mdash; Pony  [[Image:User_Pony_Slaystation_X.jpg‎|User talk:Pony Slaystation X]] 15:24, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 135) Thrain   <font color="#008B00">Talk  19:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 136) Engerizer 01:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC) definately.
 * 137) Zweistein 13:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 138) --Mor<font color="gray" size="2px"> Dred<font color="silver" size="2px">  1622<font color="black" size="2px">  01:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 139) Magua 06:37, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 140) Nerf Perma's, Discord teams, SoS, 600/smite, Anguish-2/3 man team builds and stuff like that
 * 141) (71.17.105.62 22:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC))
 * 142) --77.254.174.159 20:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 143) -- Reaper of Scythes ** User Reaper of ScythesJuggernaut1.png 20:50, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 144) --Mozoziz 14:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 145) --Abbess Katherine 01:50, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 146) --Maybe it will make it more interesting to do --Wingsy 12:56, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 147) --Rolain1 14:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 148) ~ MarcoDzi 15:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * 149) [[File:User Demonical Monk av.png]] Demonical Monk  18:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 150) --AboveAverageJoe 20:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 151) Remove consumables, nerf gimmick builds, rebalance PVE-only skills, yes please! --91.153.26.224 12:37, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 152) Blue Clouded 21:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 153) ThrainUser_Thrain_Sig.png contribs 21:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 154) --Kill discord and sabway and I'll be happy!Yumiko ^,~ 16:52, 8 May 2011 (UTC)