Talk:Double Dragon

If someone could get both Factions and nightfall in the campain part of description for me...I can't seem to get it to work. The Holy Llama 07:17, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Wow - a semi-core skill. I've never noticed that before. Are there any more in Factions and Nightfall but not Prophecies? -- Snog  rat [[Image:Trigsig.png]] 07:20, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
 * It's still a Faction's only skill. You'll need to have Factions to be able to use it.  You get a padlock icon over the skills which aren't for a campaign you own.  There are others, I can't recall them off the top of my head. :) --Aspectacle 07:27, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Hah, the perils of owning all 3 campaigns :D Still, it's a bit odd putting a skill into a campaign that you can capture but not use - I say give it to a Tyrian boss (one of the Eidolons maybe) thus making it truly core ^^ -- Snog  rat [[Image:Trigsig.png]] 07:33, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

The Fury
I thought The Fury was not a boss?76.185.244.98 23:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

You're right, The Fury is not a boss and should be removed, however The Fury actor during the Dragon Festival did count as a boss, but I'm not sure if you could ever kill it 64.53.184.116 15:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

underpowered
IMO change it,give it a recharge of 10-15 would still make it a bit unfavored skill. 81.245.126.162 20:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll agree that the recharge for this skill is too much for it to be a reasonable skill to carry in anyone's elite spot. If the recharge was shorter, maybe people would use it more often. 70.177.103.214 09:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it is kind of like Searing Flames, except it only hits things next to you and has 15x the recharge. - Elder Angelus 16:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Aftercast removed...'bout time
It took 3 years to discover that aftercast (silly concept) was hurting Eles and that was one of the many reasons why they suck. After casting DD or any spell that had that extra long aftercast, I was getting my azz beat and couldn't do anything about it (couldn't move, couldn't cast, couldn't attack). Now, Eles wont be a sitting duck (i.e., easy target) after casting so they can actually go kill something and benefit the team instead of being carry-on baggage.

Now all you have to do is reduce the recharge to 20 and increase the range. To warrant an elite status, it needs to compete with Starburst and Shockwave (they do way more accumulative damage in a shorter time span) and its little bro's Inferno and Flame Burst cause they outdo this skill. 24.106.177.50 14:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter, because with 30 recharge, elite status, and adjacent PBAoE, it's still bad. Worse than many non-elites.

it looks a good skill, but its recharge is the turn off. I love shockwave, very inventive skill mechanic. Flame burst > DD--Justice 04:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Updeath
xDD now you can get uber leet attribute in fire magic xD -- Halogod35   01:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Arcane Mimicry this bitch on SF teams. 'Sup?  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Update does nothing. You can get 20 fire magic fairly easily before this. And, there's a hard attribute cap of 20. All this skill does is save you 1 skill slot and eats up your elite. --8765 02:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * PvP. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok sure. But there goes your elite and 75 HP. It's hard to say whether it's worth giving up searing flames or savannah heat for that combo. While this is an improvement to this skill, I doubt it's going to become as popular as SF or SH in pvp (and certainly not pve). --8765 03:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't much care for it... it'd be alright if it was non-elite, but as it is it's pretty useless, tbh. Still, level-20 Rodgort's could be fun I guess.  --Jette 04:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It'd b way OP if it weren't elite, but as an elite it is overshadowed by SF and SH. Still, the attribute boost can't be removed :PCrimmastermind 04:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn't useless, now it's borderline underpowered. Remember that the buff cannot be removed or abused by the other team though.

Eles can consider 600/Smite now >_>? 58.179.110.181 06:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

What if people use this with already very powerfull fire magic spells Oo owait Lilondra   *gale*  11:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Bomber's just got fun to play with in pve. And somewhat decent too. Yay --Adul 16:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

You only need a -35h +2Fire rune to get your fire magic up to 20, use glyph.~>Sins  WDB 23:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Question
Does the damage come before or after the + ... fire magic? --Sihvahn 14:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * After.

Bug?
lets say you have 12 fire magic +1 from headgym or w/e it's called +3 fire rune. when you use Glyph of Elemental Power -- Double Dragon you got 20 fire magic, then Double Dragon says "Fire Magic +3" then you use it again and your fire attribute stays 20, doesn't change to 21. Now i'm just wondering if it can't go above 20 or if it's some kind of bug or something.
 * You cannot raise your attributes over 20 without the usage of an "Attribute +1 / 20% chance when using skills" mod. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 18:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * All you really need is 15 fire magic to get 20 -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 21:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Rodgort's@20 is hawt in halls tbh. 217.120.228.192 21:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Related
Added Flame Burst and Inferno, since both are PBAoE in the fire attribute. They seem as related as Glyph of Elemental power, unless we are categorizing on actual use, because this seems to me to be more likely used for +2 fire, than as a PBAoE by most primary elementalists. However, someone might want a huge PBAoE build, and this would help them do that. StatMan 03:10, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps also add Flame Djinn's Haste? After all, its PBAoE with a buff. &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why Are We Fighting BlackRose.PNG|User talk:Why Are We Fighting]] 17:48, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * While we're at it, let's add heal area and healing ring. they are PBAOE too.
 * That's stupid. Everyone uses this for the attribute boost, so the only related skill would be Glyph of elemental power. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  18:36, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I say remove all. I don't think we should relate it based on what we think is it's main use.  Should Aura of the Lich be related?  Glyph is as related as Fire PBAoE.  I didn't think of Flame Djinns.  I've reconsidered, and I think there is nothing related.  StatMan 06:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * only stupid people would waste an elite for the +2 fire magic. You use it for pumping out PBAoE damage 90.206.243.79 17:25, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you noticed how no one ran this before, and now they do? Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 18:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you noticed that recasting nets +5 fire magic? --75.175.2.66 22:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

21 fire magic attribute
I can has 21 fire magics.... Jonathan 11:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Erm... you could do that way before this ever got changed. - Auron 11:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I still prefer the various candies to this skill, tbh. Running fire magic in PvP feels gimmicky to me no matter what, and Savannah Heat/Searing Flames/Flare is better than a PBAoE anyway.  Except flame djinn's haste, which is pretty cool sometimes.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 18:03, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Orly? Golden Egg + (another consumable which i can't remember the name of) + 16 fire magic + GoEP = 18; You need DD for +2 and again for +3. [[Image:User_JonathanMartin_Sig.jpg|20px]]Jonathan 19:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh Shi.... just read above post [[Image:User_JonathanMartin_Sig.jpg|20px]]Jonathan 19:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Golden Egg, Candy Corn, Grail of Might, and that shrine bonus. The shrine isn't always available, but it's not that hard to get anyway.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 21:15, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The 20 attribute cap aside, I think the max is 26-27, with cons and shrine. 12 from skills, 4 from head piece, 1 from staff (20% of course), 2 GoEP, 1 from Elemental Lord, 1 from shrine, 3 from cons, and finally 3 (or more) from Double Dragon. Making up to 27 or more possible, if the game allowed it. 6:05 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This doesn't seem to me to be a skill you put on a ele primary, since PBAoE usually isn't what you do as an ele. StatMan 04:51, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it cap at 21? because It could technically go alot higher (25 or more by my reckoning)?? anyone know? 90.207.245.52 11:56, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Curious about that myself. I went through the list of consumables and found 3 different ones that could raise attributes by a point. Hypothetically, 16 Fire Magic, +2 Glyph of Elemental Power, +1 Elemental Lord, THEN +3 Double Dragon, and you have 22 fire. Triple consume, and you could push that to 25, but I have never had the consumables or desire and skill selection to test it. Guildwarsrunner 07:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In PvP, it caps at 20 no matter if you put it to 21. I'm not sure about PvE though. -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 08:13, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It caps at 20 in PvE, too. The only way you can have a 21 is if you have it (capped) at 20 then use a 20% chance to get a +1 fire magic mod on, then you cast spells over and over until you get one that hits for more damage.
 * Truth be told, that used to lock up the client. Back right after the golden egg release (whenever it was first possible to get 20+1), people would dupe items by freezing their client and doing some other shit. I think that's been fixed, though, so it should just act normally. - Auron 08:24, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

+ Fire Magic Stacking
Pardon if I misunderstand the above talk or page text, but I was trying this out the other day, and the bonus to Fire Magic (both with Arcane Echo and just recasting the spell by itself) did not stack, it only refreshed the timer on the status block in the top left corner. Is this WAI? 67.186.22.130 21:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is because multiple copies of the same effect don't stack. You have to use Double Dragon + Glyph of Elemental Power to get 21 fire magic.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically, you can only get 20 fire magic with DD+GoEP. You need a master of my domain inscription or similar item to get 21.  As such, you can split your attributes further to do goofy combos like a 160-damage, 5-second burning Rodgort's followed by Steam with 11 water (actually 13, since you have that glyph).  You used to be able to get really attribute scores, but it kinda broke the game so they put a hard cap so people would stop crashing and stuff.  And thank goodness, the last thing we need is hard mode monsters with Rodgort's that does a base damage of 250.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 22:17, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't have that already? ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 22:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me check my mafs chart.
 * 162 + (7 * 4 * 2) = ...oh, god fucking damnit. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 23:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the (wow) quick responses. I assumed that was the case upon the non-stacking discovery (though disappointed), and I think I have now figured out the confusion I had. From the page: Since the duration of the attribute boost lasts longer than the recharge of the skill at rank 10 and higher, it is possible to maximize the fire attribute (20) with Glyph of Elemental Power and a rank of 15 in fire magic by casting twice. Would this more correctly be interpreted as: Since the duration of the attribute boost lasts longer than the recharge of the skill at rank 10 and higher, it is possible to maximize the fire attribute (20) with Glyph of Elemental Power and a rank of 15 in fire magic by casting again with the higher fire attribute, refreshing the attribute buff as +3 instead. Is that what the page is trying to say? My version's a little too long-winded, though. 67.186.22.130 00:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, its exactly what the page is trying to say. Should probably be reworded somehow... &mdash; Why [[Image:User Why s.png|User talk:Why Are We Fighting]] 00:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

pvp
what about (this + inferno + flame burst)*3? Spike? Just like the necros did with unholy feast and touch skills and vamp gaze and whatever some months ago. Inferno is 170 damage at 20 fire magic. And what about some capper build for AB, HB, CM? Go /A with some shadow steps and boom here we are! 95.119.17.139 14:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the x3, but people do run this + PBAoE + sometimes some DoTAoE like Searing Heat in PvP such as AB sometimes. They take /A for Shadow Steps sometimes, as well, but usually they fail by pre-casting Double Dragon and *then* stepping to you. :\ Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 22:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this works best for PBAoE builds, but I've never really liked them. I tried using it with Glowing Gaze as an alternative to an arenas Mind Blast ele, which works decently, though you don't really have space for GoEP (you need to take something like AoR for extra energy and if you want a self-heal that kinda fills up your bar). I tried it with and without, with is mega damages but awkward to use and not good for energy. Without means you only have 18 energy so it's like MB but more damage per spell and some extra damage if anyone gets too close. It's good, but then you could just take MB with GoEP I guess. 188.74.101.228 01:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

note
DISAGREE - I tested this. I tried casting DD a second time while the +2 was still active and it does not stack. I also tested it under the conditions suggested with the Glyph. The Glyph and DD do stack, but when I cast DD again, there is still no additional gain. To max the attriblute (20) either start with a +4 headpiece or add Elemental Lord. ~ Jimmy Napalm


 * just moved the above post from the skill page to the talk page-- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|19x19px|User Talk: BobbyT]] 02:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)


 * that being said you are part right, the note saids 2 things 1) you can reapply the attribute bonus after rank 6 cause duration>recharge. 2) at rank 15 (only need a +3 headpiece) you can combo both Glyph of Elemential power and DD to get rank 20 which is true because cast DD glyph, which gets you rank 19 getting the +3 and 20 after you reapply.
 * the first part only state that the +2 bonus is maintainable while 2nd say how to get to rank 20. i'll agree that the note can be confusing cause it sound like you can stack the bonus with its self, going to reword the note by taking out the maintaining par, i don't think it needs to be mention -- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|19x19px|User Talk: BobbyT]] 02:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

new note?
should it be noted that since it is treated as a spell and not an enchantment it is impossible to strip it (deaths dont count)? - The Scythe Has Fallen Ω|Ω talk Ω|Ω 19:48, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Does it really not end on death? If so, that should be noted. We don't need to mention that it can't be stripped, however -- spells never can, and the page already states like five times that it's a spell. | 7  2   User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg | 19:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course it is stripped upon death, 72. And I'll have to agree with you on that one, such a note is, frankly, redundant. - Reanimated X 19:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, for the same reason that all shouts, chants, echoes, signets, skills, glyphs, preparations, and traps with this property don't have this note. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 19:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)