User talk:Shard/SkillComparisons

IMBAAA! the first one: IAS on a healing line? Kill all foes in the instance? please don't give arenanet more ideas. they might implement these. --Boro 11:56, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Titani wouldent agree . They are Oucking fverpowed skills,i donno is these skills are just shards Twisted sarcasm but ffs...dont give A-net anymore ideas >_< -- Nei l2250  User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 12:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ^^ Please get firefox...I hate having to decode what you write! Oh, and hi Boro, how was your Holiday? -- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 16:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Divine Fervor - secondary profession abuse (assuming this is a div favor skill, otherwise it is pretty self-explanatory).
 * Greater Boon - nullifies pressure-based builds on its own.
 * Time Stop - can be used to prevent every prottable spike in the game, or to spike with yourself without any risk.
 * Divine Shield - removing guardians, soa's, and the like are crucial to speeding up the game. making them unremovable leads to long matches and degerate builds
 * Rend Hexes - PnH is a counter to hex-heavy builds, but that did not make it a good solution to the actual problem (hexes being too effective and spammable cover hexes). RH is a nonelite version of it, which leads to the point where every team havs to bring it or get annihilated sooner or later.
 * Mend Hex - this one is not half that bad. well, compared to other hex removals it might be, but what can you do? :P
 * Super Vigorous Spirit - making your 80AL teammates gain superpowered healing for the entirety of the match leads to an unhealthy environment.
 * GigaMending - more like GigaBreeze, where breeze is struggling to keep up with Conjure Nightmare, and this cancels out Illusion of Pain. this is a good example of how increasing numbers is not a good idea to fix a skill (and of how rediculous IoP is).
 * Mending Wave - basically prevents DW on multiple people.
 * Xinrae's Rage - extremely spammable, unprottable offense.
 * Lolraeg - lolhammerchains.
 * Grace Healing - underpowered compared to Searing Heat, it needs a +7 health regen at the end :P
 * I win - GWW notes - while it is not stated in the skill description, after 1 minute this skill replaces the slain enemies with Stormcloud Incubi :P
 * Redeem - through means of Eprod, Ether Renewal or some other crazy shit, the 10 energy drawback is meaningless, which only leaves a spammables heal for which no skill is needed.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  12:59, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You already adressed that question but in the skills that do not have them, you should add the linked attribute, the elite / non-elite status, and at least an estimated scale. I realize why it does not matter that much considering what you are trying to do but they are still factors of considerable importance when balancing skills.


 * Divine Fervor – I can't figure this one out, obviously it is overpowered, and perhaps you added it for the psycological factor so the following skills seem reasonable as long as they are less broken.


 * Greater Boon – Visions of Regret apparently. Except in "balls", it would not be that good because unlike random damage, random healing is often overhealing. You can fire Visions of Regret more or less at anyone and it will work. Greater Boon would be wasted.


 * Time Stop - Wail of Doom? Discussing it seriously does not really make sense since you are making fun of it, but since you asked for feedback: it would allow any warrior to kill their target with impunity while their enemies are unable to react - which is what the current does now, actually.


 * Divine Shield – I cannot figure out what this one is supposed to be. Perhaps Parasitic Bond. Even if the numbers are more reasonable and a Monk more vulnerable than a Necromancer, the concept still provides too much benefits for too little effort.


 * Rend Hexes – Rend Enchantments obviously. It is a non-elite that is so strong in its role that having a character carrying it (even with little to no points invested in its attribute) is a no-brainer if the meta calls for it.


 * Mend Hex – This is one probably Rip Enchantment. Rip Enchantment negates a lot of useful spells like Attunements or Channeling which are greatly needed by their user; a hexer will just reapply his hexes since he is a lot less energy dependant, and due to recharge times, he will promptly be able to recast (and recover) the hex. This one actually is a good indication of how powerful hexes are, because it would be a better hex removal than Rip Enchantment is an enchantment removal, and yet it would achieve weaker results at what it does.


 * Super Vigorous Spirit – Probably Empathy. Without indication to its duration I will assume it is the same as Empathy, which brings the same problem as above: a Mesmer can afford a lot more costly spells than a Monk can. Plus, Empathy greatly reduces a Warrior's damage output since they will often have to attack less, sometimes not at all if their monk is under pressure. A Warrior enchanted with Super Vigourous Spirit would not enjoy a huge increase in power, even if, assuming the enchantment stays, they are harder to pressure.


 * GigaMending – Illusion of Pain. It is the old difference between degeneration and regeneration. Degeneration is strong because it allows you to do damage more quickly than you normaly would, and you do not care about overdamaging. In contrast, strong regeneration skills like Spirit Light Weapon or Healing Breeze are mediocre because if you need that much healing (half of which will be wasted), a direct heal (or prots) would have certainly been better. Even without the "when it ends" clause, GigaMending is weaker than Illusion of Pain because what it does is not desirable. Illusion of Pain is extremely powerful because Word of Damage is not available, and you would use both if it did; GigaMending is mediocre because Word of Healing does exist, and you would use one or the other, but not both. An equally impratical comparison in your list would have been said Word of Damage.


 * Mending Wave – Wounding Strike. A healer cannot afford to run up to its allies to heal them, a melee attacker is supposed to. The deep wound part is actually the one element you can switch while allowing for the same balance reasoning: in this case, the maintained survivability would be almost as desirable as the maintained vulnerability.


 * Xinrae's Rage – It can apply to Weapon of Remedy or Xinrae's Weapon, but Patient Spirit was probably the one you had in mind. Its resistance to interruption and its overal flavour are its best points, here again keeping in mind that damage and healing have completely different rules.


 * Lolraeg – I do not know what this one is. It would be used right after a hammer chain. In its current form it is Enraging Charge x 2.


 * Grace Healing – Probably one of the ten Fire Magic (or other) nukes. Unlike healing, random damage is desirable because overhealing is a waste, overdamaging is a goal. Plus, Elementalist nukes are overal balanced, six Elementalists casting three of them each is not. In contrast, six Monks stacking several Grace Healings would achieve little results. So the nukes you are refering to are too strong because of their multiple copies, this healing spell would be rather strong but kept in check by what its caster is supposed to do and what its effect is bringing.


 * I win – This one is what it looks like it is.


 * Redeem – This one is completely broken too. Just pack energy management and stay in radar range.


 * Due to how defense and offense are submitted to entirely different strategic options, it ends up a bit clumsy and sometimes counter-productive but overal it is an original way to underline these issues. Ni Di 16:17, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * <>
 * It is a reverse Faint, which shows how powerful Faint is.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  18:13, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Time Stop is in Fast Casting and scales so I doubt anyone besides a mesmer could use it. I wonder if these are proposed changes for the test krewe... XD --98.238.169.189 19:35, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Divine Fervor is Faintheartedness. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 19:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Terrible
Worst skills ever in anything created ever and that will be created also is terrible to be bad. Vael Victus  16:44, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * much more like a joke on arenanet. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 15:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Lol
Urbad Dark Morphon 16:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

IMO
=> 100% IAS is not only gamebreaking (it would literally break the engine) its also rly OP (even at 33% I'd say its op => Its out of the niche a healing prayer monk should have. => Its gay ==> Counters VoR,Therefor OP ==> Euro's would run 2 copies of this.One would relieve (read:kill all) pressure. ==> Both impossible and dumb mechanic.Are you referring to WoD with this one.Also really lol since you'd proly be able to run a 4 mesmer team with this.Also the game would be won the moment a mesmer starts casting this.Lol@ stalling till VoD. ==> Healing is to big,Especially for DF ==> A counter to enchant removal shouldn't exist (ignoring ints and co) ==> Basically convert without the huge energy cost. ==> I don't know if people would even use this.Perhaps for the 10 recharge and the fact that it heals for 120 without overhealing. ==> Broken version of current vigourous.Will either take over the niche (= OP) or be UP ==>Since it has mending in its name its fine.Exept for the fact that something shouldn't heal for 300 health. ==> Energy,cast,recharge,functionality ==> Cast time,Xinrae's wep is about as OP yh. ==> Rotn ? ==> Again no counter,200 health each partymember is way to much,no matter the cost. ==> About as OP as SY. ==> LoD,Heal Party fill the niche just fine.With a 2 recharge things can't rly get more powerfull wether you slap a elite tag on it or not. Lilondra  19:11, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Divine Fervor - - "(Healing Enchantment), For 20 seconds, target ally has +3 health regeneration and attacks 100% faster."
 * Greater Boon - - "(Elite, Healing) For 10 seconds, whenever an ally uses a skill, that party member is healed for 100 health."
 * Time Stop - - "(Elite, Fast Casting) Stop time for 4 seconds. You are the only character that can move, attack, and use skills."
 * Divine Shield - - "(Elite, Divine Favor) Target ally gains 100 health. For 8 seconds, enchantments can't be removed from him/her."
 * Rend Hexes - - "Remove 5 hexes from target ally."
 * Mend Hex - - "Remove a hex from target ally. For 20 seconds, that ally gains +3 health regeneration."
 * Super Vigorous Spirit - - "Whenever target ally attacks, that ally gains 50 health."
 * GigaMending - - "(Enchantment) For 10 seconds, target ally gains 30 health each second."
 * Mending Wave - - "(Enchantment) Target ally and all nearby allies are healed for 100 and gain another +100 max health for 15 seconds."
 * Xinrae's Rage - - "(Elite Hex) After 1 second, steal 80 health from target foe."
 * Lolraeg - - "(Spell) You gain 10 adrenaline."
 * Grace Healing - - "(Spell) For 5 seconds, all party members are healed for 40 each second."
 * I win - - "Kill all enemies in this instance (PvE only)."
 * Redeem - - "(Elite) Each party member is healed for 120 health."

i think
these skills are fine. they promote fun and interesting gameplay. -- adrin  19:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * True. Rolol lololol. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 08:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Fine
I'll give my opinion then.
 * Divine Fervor: attacking 100% faster? Lolo your damage output gets quadrupled or something? Cba to do the maths, but that's ridiculous. Adding damage is always dangerous as could be seen with many broken builds in the past. This is even worse.
 * Greater Boon: Lameness. Hai I maintain it on one target that becomes invincible, too bad it doesn't benefit my other party members. I wouldn't use it.
 * Time Stop: 8 Mesmers with this skill and some damage outside of that, chain it endlessly. Nobody can do anything, you just constantly stop the time and slowly but surely kill their team or gank their base. That's like pre-fix Signet of Ghostly Might tbh.
 * Divine Shield: Unremovable Enchantments? What?
 * Rend Hexes: I'd rather use Deny Hexes on my Monk and Convert Hexes on my midliner.
 * Mend Hex: I'd rather use Cure Hex.
 * Super Vigorous Spirit: What's the duration?
 * Gigamending: Uhm, what? That's more healing than Spirit Light Weapon, on a non-elite. Ridiculous.
 * Mending Wave: Infinite +100 to your whole party instead of 80ish healing on WoH. Brokeeen.
 * Xinrae's Rage: Since it's a hex, it can't be used by multiple allies. The delay can be used to use another spell to support in whatever spike you're participating in. Also, the damage is completely unprottable.
 * Lolraeg: 10 adrenaline = instantly charged every adrenal skill on your bar.
 * Grace Healing: Lame, passive skill. Outheals the healing done by recasting Pot then dropping it. Overpowered.
 * I win: Lol who cares about PvE.
 * Redeem: Lolo 120 health every 2 seconds? Umad?

Obviously, you're trying to compare it to other broken skills currently present but in many of these cases (in particular Divine Fervor and Time Stop) the functions you propose are far worse than the skill it's compared to. Nice try, but no. Doesn't work like that. Dark Morphon 17:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

More Thoughts
I agree with what most other users have said, these skills have problems. I dont pretend to be a master balancer, so I dont know how valueable my ideas are. But at least you are trying, and it gives some kind of framework for brainstorming.
 * Divine Fervor - IAS is way overboard. Maybe if the duration was less than that cooldown by a few seconds and the IAS was 10-33%.
 * Greater Boon - I agree that this looks like a healing VoR (a skill that people already had problems with). I think this could be awfully abused.
 * Time Stop - Isnt this basically what an AoE KD is without any conditions? I think a tad overpowered. I kind of prefer memsers, as a class, to avoid KD, and be more about messing up players in other ways.  Maybe as a really short duration AoE blackout (2-3 seconds, 30 cooldown, 10-15 energy) instead?
 * Divine Shield - energy cost 15, cooldown around 12-15 seconds (because its doing things i dont think would be enjoyable in the game -> blocking enchant removal, so need to make it costly and rare)
 * Rend Hexes - I think other skills are better to use than this. If you are looking for a different way to deal hexes, why not something that may # spread the hexes to adjacent foes.
 * Mend Hex - might be ok as something different, maybe bump up to 4/5 pips of hp, so that it heals more than cure hex, but at the price of getting it over time.
 * Super Vigorous Spirit - Whats the duration? Maybe if the duation was 3-5 seconds.
 * GigaMending - basically sounds like healing breeze to me. not different enough to warrent existance in my opinion. Maybe rework it into a "giveable" mystic regen?  where you can cast it on someone else, and based on how many enchants they have, they get 1/2 pips of hp regen.  capped at 2-4 skills maybe?
 * Mending Wave - duration 10 seconds, cooldown 30, energy 10, and only adjacent to target
 * Xinrae's Rage - just sounds like a problem for reasons already stated.
 * lolrage - no, too much addren. maybe if it was 4 or 5 and cost 10-15 energy to punish low energy professions.
 * Grace Healing - way too much passive healing. LoD is pretty in line with how things should be i think.  Maybe if the cast time was 3 seconds, and energy cost was 15, and healing was 30 to each.
 * i win - almost funny, you know some people enjoy PvE.
 * redeem - you dont think this is going to make people rage quit? Maybe if the energy cost was 25 and it caused exhaustion.

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.226.171.140 (talk).

They could use a little improvement...

 * Divine Fervor - Think recharge should be higher, duration shorter, and IAS smaller.
 * Greater Boon - Make it heal party members for 5-15hp per skill or attack
 * Time Stop - increase energy cost, casting time (its in faster casting!), and make it a mass hex that disables all skills and can't attack. 4sec/end upon skill use
 * Divine Recharge - increase recharge (10 sec) and make it heal for 50-80hp when enchants are stripped. And make it a skill, not enchant
 * Rend Hexes - Make you lose energy for every necro hex removed
 * Mend Hex - Increase cost and recharge, regen depends on if there are still more hexes
 * Superior Vigorous Spirit - (20sec)increase recharge to 30, decrease cost 5, w/e target ally attack or casts a spell, all allies lose a hex/condition and gain 20hp.
 * GigaMending - (15sec) target ally gains 5-30hp/sec, you lose 1energy per sec.
 * Mending Wave(going all out here) - your entire party gains +5hp regen, your energy is set to 100, you have -4energy regen. Ends when your energy hits 0.
 * Xinrae's Rage - Target foe takes 80 damage, if target foe is still alive you lose 40hp and target foe gains 80.
 * Lolraeg - make it require 10 adrenaline!
 * Grace Healing - decrease recharge, cost, cast time, and healing(30)
 * I win - monster skill!
 * Redeem - Target ally is healed for 200hp, if target was above 50%hp upon healing, Redeem is disabled for 30sec.

Feel bad I spammed all this in here, sry. And let me know what you think, I'll never be able to find this page again,lolSox11 22:40, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Uhm..
I don't normally do balance discussions, but I do like games. So here's what I think.


 * Divine Fervor - - "(Healing Enchantment), For 20 seconds, target ally has +3 health regeneration and attacks 100% faster."
 * Apart from being ridiculously overpowered (100% ias wtf) and being maintainable on two targets, even if the ias was only 25% you're adding a strong offensive skill to a defensive attribute. This is worse than Smiter's Boon was, but than the other way around.


 * Greater Boon - - "(Elite, Healing) For 10 seconds, whenever an ally uses a skill, that party member is healed for 100 health."
 * 100 health is way too much, and when in trouble you should get yourself to safety instead of being allowed to spam offensive skills for healing. Also, if the healing was reduced to a reasonable level, the recharge is too long to make people bring this.


 * Time Stop - - "(Elite, Fast Casting) Stop time for 4 seconds. You are the only character that can move, attack, and use skills."
 * Four mesmers with lifesteals and this = kill an enemy every 15 secs.


 * Divine Shield - - "(Elite, Divine Favor) Target ally gains 100 health. For 8 seconds, enchantments can't be removed from him/her."
 * Enchant removals are one of the things that keep gameplay dynamic. This shouldn't be maintainable, in fact, it could be a funny "interrupt" for enchant removals if the recharge was lengthened and the duration reduced. But to function well it needs to be underpowered.


 * Rend Hexes - - "Remove 5 hexes from target ally."
 * I don't really know if the meta is still as hex-heavy as it was (haven't played seriously in a long while) but this is too good in certain situations, and the recharge is too long for use outside those. At least it's not stupidly OP, imo. I might be wrong though.


 * Mend Hex - - "Remove a hex from target ally. For 20 seconds, that ally gains +3 health regeneration."
 * Sounds funny, but I think it's way stronger than any other non-elite hex removals. 20 seconds might be a bit long.


 * Super Vigorous Spirit - - "Whenever target ally attacks, that ally gains 50 health."
 * Overpowered, negates any pressure to your frontline. What's the duration?


 * GigaMending - - "(Enchantment) For 10 seconds, target ally gains 30 health each second."
 * Compared to Healing Breeze, this is really overpowered. It negates way too much pressure.


 * Mending Wave - - "(Enchantment) Target ally and all nearby allies are healed for 100 and gain another +100 max health for 15 seconds."
 * The secondary effect is funny, but a 100 heal to all nearby allies each 4 seconds for 5 energy is just way too much.


 * Xinrae's Rage - - "(Elite Hex) After 1 second, steal 80 health from target foe."
 * Too much unprottable pressure. At least you can't spike with it, that's a good thing.


 * Lolraeg - - "(Spell) You gain 10 adrenaline."
 * Makes a good knockdown chain waaay to easy. Kill it.


 * Grace Healing - - "(Spell) For 5 seconds, all party members are healed for 40 each second."
 * Healing all party members for 200 health, for just 10 energy. That's too much, right? Could easily bring back a losing team on its own.


 * I win - - "Kill all enemies in this instance (PvE only)."
 * PvE is broken, but that doesn't mean you should Smiter's Boon the entire concept. :P


 * Redeem - - "(Elite) Each party member is healed for 120 health."
 * Use some kind of energy management and stay within radar range. Overpowered. Also makes it way too easy to heal your team when splitting. LoD was a problem, this will be even more.

...does that make sense? O.o &mdash; Why  00:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Mend Hex
Is perfectly fine. Trades off direct healing for a lesser recharge. People who think this is OPed needs their brains checked. Things like Cure Hex, Holy Veil and Spotless Mind are actually so much better anyway. Pika Fan 08:17, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * True story, imo it's a bit weak. --Auron&#39;s Fanclub Leader 08:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

My comments on comments and whatever
I see what you're trying to prove with this shard, but it just doesn't work that way.
 * Faintheartedness to "Divine Fervor"
 * 100% IAS is gamebreaking, 50% DAS is not.


 * VoR to "Greater Boon"
 * VoR is abused, but in a totally different way (and on a totally different level) than an enchantment like that would be; avoiding using skills for 10 seconds=/=mashing as many skills as possible for 10 seconds.


 * WoD to "Time Stop"
 * Again with the completely different mechanics, also as many have pointed out: SoGM 2:electric boogaloo.


 * SA to "Divine Shield"
 * This one isn't really proving anything, it's mediocre at best.


 * Rend to "Rend Hexes"
 * This one is even horribly underpowered, but as you said; hexes are op.


 * Rip to "Mend Hex"
 * Again with underpowered skills, this is meh and if it had 15 recharge like rip it'd be a waste on your bar.


 * Empathy to "Super Vigorous Spirit"
 * Empathy is ok.


 * IoP to "GigaMending"
 * IoP's drawback sucks your energy completely, it's not op outside RA groups with no hex removals, gigamending seems meh and lacks a drawback.


 * fire nukes to "Grace Healing"/"Redeem"
 * If it would say "adjacent" or "nearby". Outside of HA those two no longer means "everyone".

--Auron&#39;s Fanclub Leader 09:11, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have been meaning to ask you. Who exactly are you? Are you someone I know? (Pst. You can email me if you want, or even better, msn me if you already have my email. I am extremely curious.) Pika Fan 10:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, none of the skills are overpowered, if you want some real overpowered skills - Echo and Mending Yup, those two are definately overpowered, they have such synergy I don't see how Shard could have overlooked them, or maybe he just wanted to create a distraction...--Orry 05:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Divine Fervor
Divine Fervor and Faint:

Faint is on the curses line, which's role is to debuff enemy players (mostly frontliners), and fulfills it's role flawlessly. (too flawlessly)

Divine Fervor is on the Healing Prayers line, which's role is to restore health on party members. Although Divine Fervor has a healing effect (3 hp regen), it's more powerful effect, the 100% IAS does not fill into the Healing Prayers line in any way. The line designed to buff the offense of allies is the Smiting Prayers line. This is why it's game breaking. --Boro 20:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd say faint on itself is not a problem.The problem is that hexstacking exists.So as long as hexstacking exists (and it will always exist since there are infact lots of hexes) 1 hex shouldn't be able to disable you but either slightly reduce the pressure you deal or get some pressure going.25-33% DAS would be ok I guess,Killing this would proly be a huge hit to hexway though,its basically keeping hexway alive. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 11:34, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Faint isn't cool. Killing someone's pressure and spike ability isn't cool. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]]
 * I never said it was cool ? I just said that Reducing the DAS might fix the problem Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 16:02, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

You forgot
This 88.115.64.92 21:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Duration fixed to 8. Atleast to 10. Recharge should be raised aswell :P - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  09:38, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Giga Mending
ohai -- Briar Flame Me  07:52, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That's elite, heals for less, requires another skill slot, and prevents you from putting a different weapon spell on the ally. Your point was what? -- Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 18:10, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What indeed? Morphy 15:46, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The responses
about 99% of the responses are just QQ's because noobs can only use pressure builds, can anyone in guildwars run balanced anymore? Other than the r14's?

Time Stop - just a little bothered...
Hello! I'm an unimportant IP. But to me, if Wail of Doom effectively removes a player from the game for four seconds (but they can still move, kite and attempt to use skills effectively)... - we can reword Time Stop to say "all foes (and allies) everywhere are afflicted (not hexed) with Time Stop. For four seconds none of them can do anything at all." The description is different but the effect is the same. So Time Stop just removes all players from the game wherever. How can you compare to Wail of Doom? 90.208.113.57 16:52, 7 June 2010 (UTC)