User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Monk/Archive 3

Can I propose to have the skill Peace and Harmony reworked a tad? It's a little underpowered, but I think I have a solution that should make it viable in more ways than one without making it too powerful.

Reduce the duration of Peace and Harmony to 30 seconds and make it so that everytime you cast a spell under Peace and Harmony's effect, as an aftereffect, you pass Peace and Harmony with its remaining duration to your ally as well. The effect ends of course whenever you cast a spell on a foe or inflict damage to a foe. Though the beauty would be that once that ally has Peace and Harmony, so long as he doesn't cast a spell or harm a foe, that ally too can pass it to other allies with its remaining duration.

Obviously since you're passing Peace and Harmony with your same duration, when Peace and Harmony ends on you, it ends on everyone who still has it at the same time. It would serve as a passive energy regeneration for those who aren't attacking or buffing your own team. It would also serve to be a very nice cover enchantment for monk types.

--Eyekwah 15:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Underpowered compared to the recently buffed Convert Hexes, as at 16 DF 2 removed hexes results in a longer recharge than convert. No point in using it for that since Expel Hexes even does a better job than that.--Thelordofblah 08:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * One nice suggestion i saw about Withdraw is to make it a mass hex removal on different targets instead. For example, it could be '10/1/5. Every party member within earshot lose 1 hex. For each hex removed this skill takes 10..5..4 extra seconds to recharge'. There is a lack in hex removal on different targets. A skill like that could allow you to get rid of all the cover hexes and have your single hex removals much more useful. Patccmoi 14:51, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was looking at some ways to make this better mainly I'm worried about making it too good and destroying any work at getting people to use hexes, but I agree compared to other elite hex removal it's just really bad. ~Izzy @-&#39;
 * Honestly I don't think hexes need any help. They're inherently passive, and a boring game mechanic as implemented.  Hexes should have shorter durations and more potent effects that require skill and timing on the part of the caster (Ineptitude vs. cast-and-forget hexes such as Price of Failure).  There is no such thing as sufficient hex removal against a well-played triple hexer build (Reaper's, Migraine, and Panic as the elites).
 * Buffing anti-hex elites doesn't change anything, either, thanks to Signet of Humility. The single removes need a serious buff or hexes need some change or nerf.  Hexes as-is are build wars.--Lodurr 11:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd go a bit further and make Withdraw 10/1/0, radar range, 10...4 recharge per hex removed. This has to compete with Divert as an anti-mass hexing skill, and that's a narrow enough niche that it needs to be powerful.  It would have a unique, good effect at those numbers that could also function as a long range hex removal.  If you want to encourage hex use outside of power hexing builds, you're going to have to make new hexes, or change existing ones, to be useful even if they don't stick for a long time, ala Diversion or Freezing Gust.  Give them stronger, shorter effects instead of an effect that's priced for a 20 second duration.  Skills that come to mind as good targets for that sort of change: Barbs, Defile Flesh, Rigor Mortis, Reckless Haste, Soul Barbs, Weaken Armor, Blurred Vision. -Ensign 22:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather than going all-out crazy like that, I suggest that this should simply not be an Elite, be moved to Protection Prayers, and work like Extinguish (remove one hex from all party members in radar range, healing them for X amount if a hex is removed). Zuranthium 02:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd love to see a usable Weaken Armor or Rigor Mortis, something you can spike with. That'd give Necros a viable role in balanced builds.--Lodurr 22:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Reduce energy cost to 5 or 10, and remove/reduce the "disabled" time. Right now, Convert Hexes far overpowers this. 76.64.59.41 04:30, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would suggest removing the mechanic that gives the skill an extra recharge for each hex removed since the skill weakens itself the more effectively it's used. Also, I would reduce the energy cost to 5 and it's recharge to 15 seconds. Ex: 5/1/15 Remove all Hexes from target ally and all adjacent allies. The lengthy recharge keeps it from making hexes un-viable while the cheap energy cost makes this an efficent way to remove lots of hexes from yourself and allies. Jigoku 13:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)\
 * I think a better point than this skill failing to compete with divert is this skill failing to compete with convert hexes. I think it should have a base 0 recharge and a max recharge.  Then buff it to nearby.  Should be a very strong melee cleaning skill.  Currently, this skill is a small AoE convert that is elite.  -Warskull 03:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "I suggest that this should simply not be an Elite, be moved to Protection Prayers, and work like Extinguish (remove one hex from all party members in radar range, healing them for X amount if a hex is removed" -Zuranthium. I am in love with this idea. I don't like trying to make it "compete" as much as I like making it usable in a different way, but not IMBA. Of course, it has to stay elite b/c hexes harder to get off than cond, but what about just lifting the 12r 1c from extinguish, leaving it at 15E. Usable? love, Aran 04:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not just have this cause exhaustion, so it could be spammed if you want to, but then your energy would be screwed.  A nti 
 * Because people whine more than a starving baby. --Deathwing 23:38, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Because exhaustion prevents a skill from being used sustainably more than twice per minute without Glyph of Energy. The problem with this skill is sustainability, replacing the downtime with exhaustion won't fix anything. -- Gordon Ecker 00:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What about making it something along the lines of "remove hexes from target ally and all adjacent allies / nearby allies / allies in the area, this spell takes an additional  seconds for each hex removed in this way" and reducing the cost? -- Gordon Ecker 01:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Withdraw Hexes, 10en, 1 cast, 7 recharge, "Remove a hex from target ally. If a hex was removed this way, all party members lose that same hex."  Something to that effect? MA Anathe 22:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoa. that just blew my mind.  ^ Use that suggestion, maybe with a slightly higher recharge.  Pluto 21:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Crazy idea, but it would make this skill alot more interesting. "Elite Enchantment Spell. all allies within earshot are enchanted with Withdraw Hexes for 3...5...9 seconds. The next time an ally is the target of a hex spell while enchanted with withdraw hexes that hex fails and the caster of this spell loses 4...2...1 Energy. - 10/1/15" OblivionDanny 00:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I like this idea. The skill wouldn't be imba, but make sense. Now this skill would be crap, even without being elite... -.- A. von Rin 17:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

(reset indent) how about just limiting the maximum recharge to 20-30 seconds...since it can easily go over 40 seconds if removing Suffering, Deep Freeze, and the like--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 20:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I suggest cut in half the recharge, duration and energy cost. So it would allow the same amount of energy to be saved over time as before, but it would be on a far more practical 30 second clock. --TimeToGetIntense 01:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That would actually nerf the skill. 76.64.186.175 18:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * How do you figure that? Think of it like this. Would you prefer to save 40 energy every 60 seconds or save 20 energy every 30 seconds? Keep in mind I suggested to cut in half the energy cost too. This skill currently costs 10 energy. --TimeToGetIntense 04:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you have any idea what the current use for this skill is? Casting it gives perma 2-hex removal for deny hexes. Changing that makes this skill useless. 76.64.186.175 04:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You just use it on recharge and it will be recharging when you need to cast Deny Hexes. --TimeToGetIntense 06:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Halving the duration would be brutal. This being up for 4-5 seconds? Could barely get off 2-3 spells. --Deathwing 16:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * usually, yep. but this would be uber e-management for zealot's fire smiters with halved recharge. - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 18:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be up for 6-7 seconds at high DF. Anyway, I don't see how saving a huge wad of energy on a 60 second clock is better. --TimeToGetIntense 06:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see how saving a huge wad of energy every 60 seconds would be worse. Pluto 06:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The potential energy savings of this skill are wasted because it must all happen in a short window of time every minute. --TimeToGetIntense 22:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Your suggestion is even worse though. Personally, I think it's fine.  —ǥȓɩηşɧ  〚 ₮ /ḉ〛 22:43, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Same, with GOLE this skill is nice for saving energy.--Atlas Oranos 20:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is at least balanced. I offer as evidence it's repeated usage in the July ATS by arguably the best monk ever, on the team that won. attempted linklove, Aran 04:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I see neither tommy, nor master on any of those rosters. Thus, the "best monks ever" do not use DS. Readem  23:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like to see a change for this skill to: "Enchantment Spell. For 5...15...20 seconds, Monk Spells cost you 5 less Energy to cast. (Minimum cost: 2 Energy.)." As well as an energy cost reduction to 5 energy. Maybe this could push the skill to be played with, without getting overpowered. A. von Rin 17:55, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Tommy is good? I spiked him in quarter second with 3 heros in Tourny lmao GG bro...

Imo, too weak compared to other elites the monk has. I would like the healing upped to scale exactly the same as sig of devotion.--Atlas Oranos 03:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's energy management with the healing as a bonus.-- §  Eloc   §  03:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not viable energy management for PvP. You spend too much time using the Signet when you need to be using a real heal or kiting. In addition to giving this skill a larger healing amount, the energy gain should also be changed to a set amount (based upon attribute rank) that applies whenever the target is enchanted; requiring 3 enchants on a person to get the full effect is just too cumbersome. Zuranthium 20:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * One of the things Izzy mentioned a few times on his talk page is that they've tried really hard to move away from elite energy management, so this is basically a deprecated skill. You probably don't want to use it ever again, unless you like building bars full of skills that suck :O. --Tankity Tank 23:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The healing AND energy management suck if you play it with anything that isnt a bonder. Tank, I really dont see this skill fueling bars all that much, this isnt Mantra of Recall, this doesnt provide godly amounts of energy, it doesnt come close to it. But even if this skill was buffed, it would have a hard time getting in with other elites such as sod, rc, and of course, lod.--Atlas Oranos 08:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * 1/4c, 2r ? love, Aran 21:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, no, no. That would just promote builds with a D/N Orders + Dark Fury spammer and those skills need to be re-worked anyway so that they are earshot range instead of full map range. Zuranthium 23:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If this skill was to be improved I suggest leaving the energy management side alone and improve the healing. This can be turned into something like an elite form of Signet of Devotion. --Shadetz X 13:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats pretty much exactly what my first post suggested :P--Atlas Oranos 17:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's going to make Healing Light look like total trash if the healing is just scaled up to Sig of Devotions healing and it was still 1 sec cast. I suppose they are in different lines. Just make the energy management more accessible, IE leave the crappy heal alone but let it give 1..2 per enchant, hex, or condition and let it still max out at 6. Might be usable in PVE, but that's better then usable nowhere.--Zarfol 01:29, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Healing Light has always looked like total trash O.o, all that needs is some utility and perhaps a slightly stronger heal.--71.251.177.38 16:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Up the max energy gain to 10 and drop the cast to half a second. Antiarchangel 19:03, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The healing should also work like the energy gain does, except it heals the ally and not yourself.OblivionDanny 00:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there any reason this skill does so little healing? I mean with it being a signet you don't even gain a Divine Favour bonus from it. 29 HP at 12 points is poor for a non-elite nevermind an elite. --SK 09:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I have a radical idea for this skill. They should change it where it gives the healing AND energy to target ally making it actually supply energy to target. That would give it many interesting side benefits but keep it balanced because it really doesn't supply that much health or energy.--192.251.13.62 22:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

This skill could be very useful as a cover enchantment but I think it really needs to have a 1/4 activation time and maybe a lower recharge before it's actually worth using. --Draikin 01:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * needs 2 recharge at most. 3 regen (unless you run 13+ divine favor) is enough to stop bleeding and not much else and the heal is about the most conditional heal in the game. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 04:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

This skill was killed by nerfs. Maybe the mechanic of the skill could be changed to make it usuable again, without becoming imba again? My suggestion is to give the skill a comparable mechanic like Smiter's Boon. ''Remove the -1 Energy Deg. and change it to "Enchantment Spell. For 60 seconds, your Monk Spells have double the Divine Favor bonus. Whenever you cast a Monk Spell that targets an ally, you lose 2 Energy."'' A. von Rin 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Signed. The only reason it was popular in the past was because of the ineffectiveness of healing prayers. Even with the suggested buff it is mediocre. --Shadetz X 02:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill was supposed to be killed by nerfs, Izzy said himself that he hates the idea of Prots being able to heal without speccing into healing prayers. --Ckal Ktak 08:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * But A. von Rin's suggestion would make the skill both cheaper and less powerful. -- Gordon Ecker 09:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

10 energy is too high and the recharge is too restrictive against enchantment stripping. You can't maintain this on more than a few people and the effect is conducive to tanking gameplay (aka degenerative gameplay). The duration ought to be reduced to 15 seconds the energy reduced to 5 and recharge slashed to 4 to make it way more active (sort of like Air of enchantment). --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 20:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Simply epic. Pluto 14:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill is useless now but it was vital! It's very, very hard to counter some types of builds, and yet you say you want to stop 3 monks backlines? Try an RC and a WOH in the AoE/KD meta (HA)... revert please... at least the health
 * 560 health for 5 energy. What? --Deathwing 02:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, This spell was changed to require skill to use (such as positioning and interrupt awareness), such that people may prefer the healer's boon+heal party combo, which is a lot more intense on the energy, but it does get the job done quicker. This spell is no longer a literal "must have" on every backline.--Ckal Ktak 08:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I say revert but put earshot ranger... --74.59.237.118 16:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You know an elite skill is underpowered when players would rather use up an extra skill slot to use the non-elite version. Mohnzh 16:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Just the fact that this skill is no longer glued to every monk bar doesn't make it underpowered. --Xeeron 16:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is still the most energy efficient way to deal with full party degen pressure. --Deathwing 17:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep the buffs to other monk skills but buff this a little. This is a necessary skill, and i believe Izzy said that many times. --74.59.237.118 23:08, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not seen GW go into a black hole since it was nerfed. --Deathwing 23:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It may be the most energy efficient way to deal with degen pressure, but it is PvE spike damage that was the problem. In that case, it is not so much the amount it heals or the energy cost, but how fast you can get the heal off (5 Krait Arcanos in a narrow passage KOs an entire party in 2 seconds). The cast time is what removed this from skill bars. I never used it until EotN, and then found that it was the only way to deal with stuff due to power creep. Now that it's gone, I am managing fine, but I know I will never use this skill in the state that it is in because the non-elite counterpart is better. Energy management is not so crucial in PvE because there are very few E-denial mobs. I would like to see the energy req increased and the cast time decreased. LoD was well-overpowered to the point that I could watch TV and just hit my LoD button every few seconds and be fine. Now there is nothing I can do about certain mobs except to DP my way through them. Mohnzh 23:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * People use LoD to deal with spikes? lolwut? --Deathwing 23:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * hehe...not individual spikes, party-wide spikes. Sorry for not being clear. Mohnzh 23:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Party wide spikes should be prevented with some sort of defense, not healed. --Deathwing 23:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, my main adjustment has been to bring Pain Invertor. That way at least one Arcanos wipes himself. But that doesn't negat the damage. And it leaves 4 more. How would you suggest to defend against them? I could take ward against elements, but then I would have to drop something else and put points into earth magic. And that still isn't sufficient against five Blinding Surges and four Chain Lightnings. Not to mention that it would be sill to take an entire build for two or three mobs in an entire area. In other words, I agree with you in principle, there are just certain places where I do not think it is practical. LoD should never have been able to recover from a mob like the 5 Krait Arcanoss, but it should be able to postpone a party wipe. That why I advocate less healing, more energy requirement, faster cast time. I wouldn't even mind if the recharge was bumped up a few seconds. Mohnzh 23:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Cry of Frustration, "They're on Fire!", Shelter, Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Choking Gas, Xinrae's Weapon, "There's Nothing to Fear!", "Save Yourselves!". Positioning. Probably many more. But positioning itself could pretty much solve the problem. --Deathwing 00:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How often do you play monk? It is now impossible to have 2-monk backlines in HA, and that sucks IMO. --74.59.237.118 03:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill isn't "useless." You just think it sucks because its godly power level was dropped so much. Don't get mad when the balance team finally does something right.  72.235.48.41 12:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill has been intentionally been left slightly over-nerfed in order to convince people to get a new elite, changing the fashion if you will. This is good for the game's diversity. --Ckal Ktak 16:25, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Monks are one of the most powerful, versitile professions in the game, and, although Protection Prayers is arguably better than Healing Prayers, Healing Prayers is still among the best attributes in the game, and despite the nerf, Light of Deliverance is still among the best elites in the game. -- Gordon Ecker 11:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

LoD Should be changed : 10energy cost, and change it into "for each party member healed under 80% of max hp , you gain 1 energy" , and decrease the cast time back to 1sec , this way it would be more balanced , due to it's energy cost , and the conditional energy gain.--189.70.172.46 23:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I would prefer the idea of changing the skill to 5 energy cost, and change it into "for each party member healed under 80% you lose 1 energy".

Then decrease the cast time to 1 second and increase recast time to 8 seconds like it was in the beginning. This would make the skill less powerfull than before the nerf, but it would be an alternative again... A. von Rin 01:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Nobody posted Mending yet? That's amazing. But buffing it might actually scare me because even more Wammos start using it. Antiarchangel 08:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nerf it. Make less wamos want to use it. Pluto 11:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nerf it and look what happens to the 55 farmers. --71.184.113.36 21:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * When I 55 I don't even use mending. Just Mystic Regeneration. Antiarchangel 22:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Add: "and conditions on you expire 50% faster."--PunkSkeleton 22:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is passive so it shouldn't be good. Nuff said. --TimeToGetIntense 01:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because a skill is a maintained enchant doesn't mean it has to suck. The got -1 energy regen to balace that out. Antiarchangel 01:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah and tbh it seems like really stupid design to make all passive skills suck, especially when they don't. Just look at life bond and the conjures, etc... Impaled 02:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just don't see the point to buffing skills like this. Passives are boring to use and since we have a limited number of skill slots, I'd prefer those slots be filled by active skills. --TimeToGetIntense 06:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * But I don't consider a boring skill a reason to not buff. Just because you don't use a skill doesn't mean others won't. Antiarchangel 17:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Buffing passives is bad because when they become strong enough, they are the best option for winning. If it's going to win me games, I'm going to use it whether I like it or not. Therefore, I feel forced into using skills and so would anyone who is interested in winning. It's a lot more fun and gratifying if you win using active skills because your level of skill matters when using them. I don't understand why anyone would want something like Mending to be buffed anyway. What's the point? Is it going to make the game more fun for anyone? --TimeToGetIntense 00:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's pretty ridiculous logic. If mending gets buffed (50% faster condition expirations, for example), would that turn the tide of battle? Not a chance. And with its heavy energy cost and maintainable cost, the chances of abusing even a buffed Mending are slim to none. It doesn't have to suck simply because it's maintainable; look at Strength of Honor. - Auron 16:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I see no reasons presented to buff mending, no explanation of why buffing mending would improve gameplay. So, preset some reasons. --Pork soldier 03:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok then first off then at 12 Healing Prayers mending gives you +3 regen so thats 6 health per second. So since you 1 energy regen is taken away by mending and 1 pip of energy regen equals 1 energy every 3 seconds that means you get 18 health for 1 energy. So for 5 energy thats 90 health over a period of 15 seconds you gained compared to orison which at 12 healing would give you 60 health plus assuming a lv 12 Divine Favor bonus 38 health so orison would get you 98 health for 5 energy in much faster than mending ever will. Also mending is a enchantment and can be removed and also mending is not going to do anything if the person is not taking any damage therefore wasting your energy while you heal the other person. For those people who say mending can counter health degen there happens to be a skill called Healing Breeze which costs the same as mending with half the cast time and way more regen. Antiarchangel 05:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How would Mending improve the game if it was viable? --TimeToGetIntense 01:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i agree with everyone who wanted to nerf this. make it add 0...1 pip of healing xD - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 23:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They should do what they did with Verata's Sacrifice.
 * Yeah part of our goal was to push people away from this skill, it's not very active and it allows for Minions to stay alive for an extremely long time, so the huge cooldown was meant to really make this skill practically un-viable in place of blood of the master which is a way more active skill. That said we probably over did it a bit and I think the cooldown could come down a little but it's one of those tweaks that really isn't important in the grand scheme of things and probably wont happen for a while. ~Izzy @-'
 * From Here --Deathwing 23:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * [rant]That comment ticked me off to no end. Just because you don't like a passive playing style doesn't mean that other people don't. Who's next? Bonders? They stand 500" back and just use Blessed Sig. Thats as passive as you can get in this game.[/rant] Done25 04:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Bonders had their nerf. It was called Factions. 95% of the groups having mass enchant removal kinda killed em. --Deathwing 15:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is an excellent noob detector. Leave it as it is!! :) Servant of Kali 13:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill would benefit from some buffing. I don't see "noobs use it" as a valid reason to let it remain underpowered. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 14:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But that makes it a cool niche skill ;) On a more serious note, I think a skill is fine if it's used by many, which Mending certainly is. With 500+ skills which are never used, I have least concerns about bad skills which are at least frequently used (Gladiators Defense etc). Servant of Kali 18:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * SERIOUS MENDING SUGGESTION OMGWTFHAX 10e|1c|5r "Target ally gains (10...46...58) health. While you maintain this enchantment, that ally has +(1...3...4) health regeneration.  That ally gains (10...46...58) health when this enchantment is removed."  At least this way, it's not completely useless.
 * Also, Servant of Kali, The "I'm a Scrub" Elite of Choice is a better noob indicator. Shard 22:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah, maintained enchantments shouldn't have "when it ends" bonuses. This way it just becomes weaker Watchful Healing. Servant of Kali 10:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right. Holy Veil needs to be changed ;) Pluto 01:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Holy Veil works fine as it is, I'm not against exceptions. Watchful Healing is also an exception and it's not really typical that enchants do that. But I still don't like the idea of enchants having effect when they end, unless they are Dervish ones. Servant of Kali 10:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Serious suggestion: Change to 15 energy, and "While you maintain this, target ally has 1...3...4 health regeneration, and Conditions and Hexes expire 40% faster", or something along those lines. --72.211.155.160 09:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Leave this skill as it is. It has it's niche use on runners.84.136.241.192 17:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Good runners use D/A --Deathwing 18:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Niche use on runners? I've not seen one use it...
 * If your running build uses this...you're doing something wrong. There are better ways of gaining 6 health per second.  Nobody says enchantments cant do things when they end.  You're just too used to playing with a closed mind. Be less ignorant. New ideas ftw. Shard 20:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What if it stole 6 health per second from adjacent foes? That would be an interesting change. Dancing Gnome 06:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd rather not have maintained enchantments that do damage. And we if we do I wouldn't want it on a monk. Antiarchangel 18:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Reduce cast time to 1 sec & increase health regen to 1...4...5. 87.189.229.209 22:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I would seriously suggest something if I can (mending jokes aside). Give it a real up front healing bonus on cast. Leave the regen the same and no bonus on end. In other words, give people a reason to re-cast it. Turn a passive skill into a double active skill. You have to cast it and you have to take it off. For newbies who just want to leave it on, it won't change a thing and it really shouldn't effect farming either (55s practically heal themselves on the divine favor alone anyway). However, you give a reason for a monk to use it as a heal. Maybe something along the lines of orison's healing. It costs more but you have to actually turn it off. It's still going to be an incredibly dumb idea for a wammo to bring it but you may see some monks use it. It could even teach the concept of casting and then removing to people early in the game (it's a pre-skill after all) and that way learning how to correctly use veil wouldn't be rocket science to them when they get to PVP. Balance + Interest + usefulness--192.251.13.62 23:25, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Make it like a party wide healing breeze! Lightblade 03:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

One of the worst monk elite ever. Nearby range, 10s recharge, energy loss, touch ... Well it will never see any light this way. You should consider getting it to "in the area", reduce recharge to 5s, because it is a burst, keep it to touched ally, and have the energy loss scale with healing prayer. Wouldn't make it much used however I think. --Faena 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * AoE healing will always be pointless if there is LoD available.--Renegade 14:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * yes ... guess so. So why not "In the earshot" ! (not with the suggestions I did earlier tho or it would be erm overpowered) --Faena 15:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i think it'd be pretty nice as an earshot heal. like heal area for your whole aggro bubble. . whoo, 25 e cost spells in healing. and useless with GoLE. - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 12:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Would still use LoD rather than prvious idea, it heals for approx twice more but for 4 time the energy cost. Group heal are pressure heals so they need to be usable often. Maybe have a energy per target, and maybe a recharge of 8. Would be a 13e spell when healing your group (if you consider flagger, it goes down to 12e) but would become a mana sink as soon as NPC as around. Still I don't like this much, it wouldn't be ran on a monk bar I think, it would be too costly. --Faena 16:03, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * uh, healing your entire party for 130hp at the cost of 12e is insane. i think it's even a bit overpowered that way. even if you heal only yourself, 130hp for 5e is uber, not counting df bonus. i also chose the wording like this to show it should apply to all allies, including pets, npc,... - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 17:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Increase to Earshot range, 8s recharge, if more than 3 people are healed lose 5E. Basically it loses the advantage of LoD to heal overextended people, but it can top people bars and overall heals more, but at double the cost if you heal many people at once. Could be very powerful in splits with this limit since it would remain 5E for 3 people. Seems like it would be a viable alternative instead of forever subpar Patccmoi 20:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * sounds good. - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 20:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep sounds good ! And yeah when you say it 130 earshot heal for 12e seem good. Mabe it can also get a 10e cost and no energy loss so it can use GoLE, but I prefer the variant with less than 4 ppl for split. --Faena 20:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it sounds like a solidly unbalanced idea. maybe drop the amount of healing to with 1 cast and 5-8 recharge or something to that effect. after that LoD nerf, we need an anti -pressure group heal, but not an unbalanced one. ~ ZamaneeJinn 19:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps they could just remove the touch range and buff the heal to Heal Area's potency (making it a heal area that doesn't work on foes).--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 03:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Or turn it into an elite version of healing ribbon, just different. "Target ally and nearby allies are healed for xx...xxx Health. This spell has half the normal range." 87.189.214.32 22:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * How about: "YOU EXPLODE YEAH AND HEAL PEOPLE WITHIN EARSHOT YOU KNOW?!?!?! IT"S A BURST GEDDIT???!?!?!" The if more than 3 people are healed you lose energy sounds quite over imo. more than 2 OTHER people would be excellent. Since it's a Healing BURST, it should cast very fast, and heal quite abit. my idea is: [[Image:User BaineTheBotter Icon notify before deletion.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  13:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

giving this a "in the area" would be gud.--189.12.67.75 22:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I think this skill is horrible. 25% less healing, and a 1 regen upkeep for -3 energy on ONLY healing spells. Using spells with energy cost greater then 5 makes them terrible, since your energy discount doesn't scale but the healing malus does. Comboing it with something like breeze since it doesn't effect the - healing is terrible. Due to the -1 pip of regen, if spamming it probably only matches peace and harmony due to the reduced healing. Make it reduce healing spell costs by 50%, or give it a 60 sec duration. Or make it reduce healing done to YOU by 25%, but leave the healing done to others alone.--Zarfol 00:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's only poor becuase of prots and LoD being prevailant in GVG, which this does nothing to help. This skill makes dealing with pressure over time easy but makes spike healing appalling. LoD removes the need for efficient healing because it heals for so much over the party for the smallest of costs. Maybe with patient spirit, this might see some more use, since that wouldn't be affected by the heal reduction. --Ckal Ktak 09:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * ATM this skill is not that useful b/c of the lack of enchantments under healing prayers. Maybe description can be changed to energy reduce by 25...60% then maybe people might use it just for Healing Breeze in PVE. --Shadetz X 22:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The energy efficiency of this skill looks decent if you compare skills used under it to the same skills without it, but it's totally blown out of the water by ZB, WoH and LoD. Even if LoD is nerfed or a better heal party option appears, Healer's Boon and WoH are much stronger choices than Healer's Covenant. --TimeToGetIntense 02:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This Spell does have a rather powerful synergy with Patient Spirit mind you, since the healing from that won't be reduced, and Spotless Mind and Spotless Soul since they don't provide healing at all to be reduced. I'd say wait until GWEN goes live for a bit before touching this one. --Ckal Ktak 09:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well energy management using maintained enchantment means it can be very easily stripped. Wasting an elite slot for a non reliable, barely efficient, energy management skill isn't quite appealing. Even if it looks like this spell will have synergies with some GWEN skills, it may see some use in PvE, but the cost of the elite slot is just too heavy compared to the gain. I would rather take GoLE than this skill --Faena 09:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Unlike many maintained enchantments, recasting this one isn't much of a problem due to it's highly favourable stats. GoLE does make the need for elite energy management redundant I'll admit, even with its nerf. --Ckal Ktak 11:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The 25% less healer effect can be bypassed if you know how it works. -25% healing only effects "direct" healing, while the reduced energy cost apply to all Healing Prayer spells.  Spells like Healing Breeze and above mentioned Patient Spirit are not effected by the reduced healing effect.  In other word...everything that doesn't work with Healer's Boon will work with Healer's Covenant. Lightblade 23:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes we know that already but this elite is still underpowered. 1 November 2007
 * surprising this skill didn't get any changes with the current "testing" for healer's boon. You think something similar would happen. I guess this skill is just so bad it's just left in the crap pile--Zarfol 04:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: Elite Enchantment Spell. For 10...46...55 seconds your healing Spells heal for 25% less Health, but cost -1...3...3 Energy. 87.189.249.97 16:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Drop the 25% less health, Bam useful elite. Antiarchangel 18:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Just do as 87.189.249.97 said, drop the upkeep, should be interesting. OblivionDanny 00:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Idea: You heal for 10-60 more health with healing prayer skills. This enchantment ends and is disabled for 30 seconds if you use a Non Healing Prayers Skill. 0 Recharge. --The Gates Assassin 21:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have an idea. A covenant is a promise. In this case, a promise to heal people...How about "For 30 seconds you gain 20%-40% of the energy cost whenever you use a healing prayers skill on an ally under 80% Health. You lose 3 energy whenever you attack or use a skill that targets a foe. 10 energy/1 cast/ 15 recharge" Kind of like an energy version of Divine Boon. The skill was meant to be energy management for heals, so might as well not try to change it's purpose. If it wasn't meant for only energy management, I'd say something like "For 30 seconds your healing prayers cost 20...33% less energy but recharge 25% slower and cast 50% faster on allies with less than 80% Health. 10 energy, 1 cast, 5 recharge". It's the idea of promising the heal, with the Energizing wind + "Help Me" sort of effect. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

drop the upkeep and it will be a very good elite, right now it's only usable with Divine Boon and one necro with Blood Ritual or BiP--189.70.107.206 11:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How about changing this skill to Elite Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this Enchantment, your healing Spells heal for 25%...15%...10% less Health, but cost -1...3...5 Energy. (Minimum cost: 1 Energy.). --MageMontu 22:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Even Better idea For 10...45...50 seconds your healing prayers const 1.3..4 (or if overpowered 1..3..3) less energy I mean COME on 50% faster and 50% more health WITH NO DOWNSIDE is balanced and this wouldnt be? maby im crazy but 2 enrg spells wouldnt be wtfomgpwnz The Golden Arrow 01:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Rather weak when compared to Orison (which is also underpowered). My understanding is that this is supposed to be a fast casting healing spell but with Holy Haste and Healer's Boon out there, having to wait 3 seconds for around the same healing isn't worth it. I suggust ethier lowering the duration of the enchant to 1 second or increasing the heal to what Etheral Light is right now. Antiarchangel 23:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I see it as a good anti-pressure Dervish-feeding skill. Servant of Kali 07:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 3 seconds is too long. You can fight pressure with this, but if stuff happens that you didn't anticipate, this skill is no longer an option and you need to use other skills. If you could perfectly predict everything that went on, this would be a great skill. --TimeToGetIntense 11:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * At first I thought this skill would work great with Healer Covenant but then I realized this skill is rather weak in that it only heals slightly more than Orison of Healing and you have to wait 3 seconds for the effect. The only thing this skill is good for is to fuel Signet of Pious Light spamming. --216.113.208.132 01:07, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No it's not. What kind of build invests in Healing Prayers and Earth Prayers? Actually I think Patient Spirit would be great to use under Tranquility. --TimeToGetIntense 22:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well you do not have to invest anything into healing prayers to fuel Signet of Pious Light with this cheap fast recharge enchantment. But at most only RA Devishes would even consider doing that (Seen it once or twice). But I agree that this skill is weak and gives little reward for being patient. The only thing it is good for is fueling Dervish skills that removes an enchantment. --Shadetz X 08:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Pious Renewal is better for spamming the signet imo.--Atlas Oranos 07:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Idea: Have it heal for 0...13...16 whenever a player is hid while the duration is up. Like a weak healing seed effect.--Atlas Oranos 07:53, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Last idea: no. It pisses me off that Dervishes can affect the path to balancing a Monk skill. IIRC, Izzy wanted to make this skill Healing Prayer's response to Reversal of Fortune? The amount of time you have to wait for the healing kills it, for what surmounts to a miniscule effect and doesn't grasp what makes Reversal of Fortune so great (what this skill was supposed to emulate) and doesn't offer more healing than Light of Deliverance (what this skill has to compete with). --Tensei 12:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Could I have a reason for the no? Is it op or something?--Atlas Oranos 13:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is funny in that it's an enchantment that's actually better under NR/Tranq than without it. In light of this, make it a 2 second duration.  Then it heals about as quickly as sig devo, which isn't quite as terrible.  Pluto 10:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The only thing this skill needs is more healing. If you've got to wait for the effect, it damn well better be worth waiting for. &mdash; Skuld 21:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This spells could allow some kind of pre-healing. However pre-protting is already a hard job, and if you are able to spot a time where you have to pre prot, you'd rather cast a prot spell that will reduce damage. This spell in this state looks like a failure. I am not sure increasing healing will help as it would still be unreliable (and it would most of the time overheal as another heal will often been thrown between the cast of this one and the 3 seconds). I am not even sure reducing the time to 2 seconds would help. Then the last option (without a complete overhaul of the skill) might be 1 second. In this case it would be roughly equivalent to a 1 second casting time heal with no aftercast. And would cleraly be overpowered compared to other healing spells. However, healing need a kind of boost and this spell may be a good place to start. --Faena 02:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What about giving it a small healing bonus when cast also. then you would get some healing (say 50 at 12 healing prayers) when you cast (only 1/4 sec which is very nice) and 50 after 2~4 sec. then it'd be about a 100 heal without divine favor. it still wouldn't be too over powered imoCurlytop2112 22:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Why was this skill made? Orison of Healing heals for just a little bit less and you don't have to wait for the heal... Done25 22:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * was meant for a prot-like heal skill. If they really wanted it to be like prot, they would need a vengeful weapon sort of thing: "For 8 seconds, the next time target ally takes damage from a foe, that ally heals for 16...67. 5energy/0.25 cast/3 recharge" Then it would suck bad unless you constantly overheal to begin with. The heal sucks worse than Spirit Bond.--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

and
I've never seen these used. Allow them to target the caster, it's their biggest weakness and what makes them useless. You can't effectively run them on anything but a monk because of the attributes and they are in healing so they are awkward to spec in. Dancing Gnome 14:24, 10 November 2007 (UTC) Maybe like this: Spotless Mind: Enchantment Spell. Target ally loses one hex and one additional hex every 5 seconds. and same for Spotless Soul but every 3 seconds. 10/0.25/12 I agree, a monk cant afford to take these on their bar b/c it is not useable on themself. You only have a limited number of spots for condtions and hexs, and to fill them with stuff that cannot be used on yourself is pointless.

(reset indent) Also it doesn't remove after you cast it, it removes the first one after 3 seconds. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

and
Outclassed by FoMF and Chant. Antiarchangel 14:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This wasn't even true before the update... ~ 207.193.28.92 05:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes it was, and still is. How many mesmers in gvg do you see taking this instead of res chant. Antiarchangel 00:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't be a smartass and start touching stuff. [[Image:User BaineTheBotter Icon notify before deletion.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  13:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to be a smart ass, because touch range reses fail. End of story. Antiarchangel 20:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW that calling me a smartass would really be GWW:NPA but I really don't care. Antiarchangel 20:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

This is one of those half decent skills that can be somewhat useful but you will not take it because there are better alternatives. The benefit of this skill is that it absorbs around 150 damage and you can use it on an ally at full health. The negative aspect of this skill is that it does not protect you from health degeneration, life stealing and can be stripped away. Compared to Zealous Benediction that heals around 150-170 (get back 7 energy if HP is below 50%) and recharge every 4 seconds I find that this skill is somewhat outclassed. I suggest decreaseing recharge to 4-5 seconds. --216.113.208.132 01:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I like to use this skill on heroes, as it is cheap and has a short recharge. 150 damage negated is about like a Heal Other that can target anyone and has a 5 energy cost. ZB is horrible on heroes, as is SoR. I find that this works better on them than the alternatives. --Deathwing 02:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * ATM Prot prayers is PvP favored and Heal prayers is PvE favored. I avoid using Prot prayers in some places in PvE b/c of mass enchantment removal. Heroes and Henchies do a very poor job applying enchantments at times. I remember one of my monk heroes gave me guardian when another party member is being attacked by melee. Back to topic I think this skill also need a recharge bump. I think 5 seconds is good enough. Still not sure whether it will be used in PvP though. --Shadetz X 10:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually to have it be viable in PvP it shouldn't have more than 3-4s recharge imo. I'd also reduce cast time to .75. 5/.75/4 would make this a pretty decent elite i think, but i still couldn't see it replace SoD Patccmoi 13:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * In its current state, when foes are dealing high damage, this skill is just barely better than Reversal of Fortune, with a longer casting time, a longer recharge, and using an elite slot. It needs a serious boost to see some use in higher level areas (GvG and HA are included in Higher level areas). --Faena 13:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a meh pre-prot (too easily manipulated, a few autoattacks and it disappears) and a terrible reaction prot (cast time is too long). If it was reworked to be more like RoF (fast cast, negates a bunch of damage), but doesn't convert damage to HP, it *might* see some use. Just maybe. - Auron 13:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm...it already negates double what RoF does, except can do so over multiple hits. I think this skill is underrated. It basically "heals" for as much as ZB, and is less energy extensive most of the time. Granted, this has slightly cast, and almost double the recharge, but that is worth it IMO for a 190ish net health saved. --Deathwing 02:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Reversal of Fortune negates and heals, Life Sheath only just negates. -- Gordon Ecker 03:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Reversal of Fortune might get wasted on a 10 damage wand attack. Life Sheath won't. Edit: Give it the same stats as RoF, but remove the "next" part then? --Deathwing 03:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Way too overpowered if you do that. You would have pretty much have invincibility for 7 seconds. I'd say decrease cast time to 1/4 of a second and increase the health negate to around 300 at 12 prot. Antiarchangel 00:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * How would you have invincibility? You cast this, you take 20 damage 4 times, are healed for 20 damage 4 times, then it ends. Unlike RoF, instead of ending on the first attack, this would end when the maximum damage is taken. It is elite after all. How is negating 150 damage for 7 seconds not invincibility, but negating 75 and healing for 75 is classed as invincibility. Unless you thought I meant a Mark of Protection with 2 second recharge, which isn't the case. I suggested RoF that ends when the maximum damage is taken, not on the next time damage is taken. : / --Deathwing 01:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Everyone already knows RoF is OP and ownz. It keeps the game in check. No reason to make a skill even more powerful. Readem   Promote My Ban Here  06:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 1/2 cast time would make it useful for catching spikes.--Atlas Oranos 17:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Life Sheath doesn't do anything. If this sees play in PvP it is too good. You could buff it in the ways mentioned above if you wanted to make it a decent hero elite or something. -Ensign 00:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The recharge on this skill is too long. Problem is if the recharge is dropped down to ROF levels then it might be too good. I'd like to see a 5 second or 4 second recharge--Zarfol 08:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

(reset indent) Maybe a 4 second recharge and 1/4 cast time would be nice...it doesn't heal. Maybe immunity to critical hits like Stone sheath might make it more viable and give a use to the word "sheath". It is pretty much shielding hands on 7 recharge but with a damage limit...--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 03:40, 11 October 2007 (UTC) Just make it 5/0.25/5 and it'D be good.
 * Switch it to smiting prayers and make it deal all the damage recieved back to the attacker. then smiting prayers might have a viable elite. although then i guess it would still get no use because it would be in smiting and no on uses smiting...
 * What about changing it to "For 20 seconds, all damage against target ally is negated. Life Sheath ends after target it has negated damage.", would that be overpowered? -- Gordon Ecker 11:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Make this skill 5/.25/5 or 5/.5/4 and it would see PvP use. As it is now, it's not bad, but not quite good enough. --Rururrur 10:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

1/4 or 1/2 cast time would make it useful.--189.70.117.54 14:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 5/.25/5 would possibly allow you to replace your rof with this skill. It would be about as efficient (more so in many cases), but still have a slightly longer recharge.  You would almost certainly want to lower the duration though if you buff the cast and recharge.  8 second duration would probably be fair.  Not sure it would be replacing woh, rc, or sod, but it would at the very least be up to Glimmer of Light status. Pluto 13:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm no expert monk, it's my worst profession, but I know I can't use this because it is too expensive, im spending 5 more energy to block 30 or 45 damage one time, I understand it has combination effectiveness, but when I'm trying to remove hexes, I'm not thinking "gee, we can afford to lose 5 more energy for every hex we remove just to block a single hit". The fact that it works an enchantment which has outlying benifits is alright, but any amount of reduction, even increase the recast to 12, in order to bring the cost down would make it work.

If the energy cost isn't going to come down, it doesn't need to have a longer recharge than 8 seconds, and could qualify for a shorter one, cause were talking about 10 energy to remove a single hex, with a nearly unnoticable defense bonus. I mean, compare this with cure hex, even if im a protection monk, cure hex is better.--BahamutKaiser 16:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Benefit is the fast cast, which mostly allows you to remove assassin hexes before the combo connects. It does see use on E/Mo runners.  I agree that this is underpowered.  Easiest buff is just to up the damage negated...put it on the same scale as RoF at least.  Otherwise 5e .25c 12r would be fine.  --Symbol 01:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hex Removal, 1/4s cast, 10s recharge, and with a Mini-RoF to boot? What's wrong with this skill, again? 76.64.56.179 03:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely nothing --72.74.237.104 03:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it will ever function properly. The significant use of any skill that blocks or reduces damage for a single attack is that it is spammed to reduced damage repeatedly.  Using a skill which removes a hex and blocks a single attack with no such reversal or additional benifit every 10 seconds really isn't relavent, even if it blocked all damage from the next attack, it is one hit and it may not be deflecting a strong skill.


 * If it blocked all damage from the next attack, it might be somewhat reasonable, if it blocked the next 40 damage taken, it would be great, if it was weaker and cost less it would be alright to. If it had a 7 or 8 second recharge, at least your getting a more powerful and expensive hex removal at a high rate.  Paying twice the energy for an insignificant effect really just makes the skill silly, even an elementist is better off using cure hex to heal far more health for an even cheaper cost than blocking a little damage, or even using convert hex, which is only 5 more energy, and removes all hexes instead of one, because if your going to spend alot of energy removing hexes, it may as well be for an effect which is worth the cost and accelerates at removing hexes.


 * Because there are so many good hex removal skills, this really isn't an issue for monk, with cure hex.... it really doesn't matter what happens to this skill. But it isn't good enough.  Even Assassin attacks are 1.33, and that isn't including approach, if your really twitching the hex removal than your can get a hex off well before the second attack, personally I would think it mattered more to someone removing a casting speed reduction from themselves, but the speed is really more about making the blocking relavent rather than the twitch, as if your going to time your hex removal with the next relavent attack.--BahamutKaiser 04:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The only use for this ksill I found was on a dervish with 15-16 mysticsm, since it made a great twitch hex removal for yourself, refunding 5 energy in short order, even with very few points in prot prayers. --Ckal Ktak 17:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Chances are, your prot monk has gift making this actually better than cure hex. Anyway, that's beside the point. I've seen plenty of people run this on e/mo runners.  the 1/4 cast makes it pretty decent for removing sin hexes or water snares quickly on splits or flag runs.  Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with this skill (though honestly, I still kind of prefer a veil on the runner anyway).  Pluto 09:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Works better in Dervish bars, since they get mysticism bonus making it like Mending touch's benefit for Rangers. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 03:43, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A simple change that improves the skill a bit: "Remove one Hex from target ally. For 5...9...10 seconds, the next 5...41...50 damage target ally would take is negated.". --Draikin 17:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's really about skillbars and the slots available. If you want hex removal you want to pay 5 to remove a hex, or less if it's elite.  10 energy to remove a single hex just isn't going to fly, unless the extra benefit is always worth the 5 extra energy.  It's a bit like a non-elite Blessed Light, but Blessed Light is fast recharge, non-conditional heal AND a condition removal, plus it provides allthese benefits from Divine Favour, an attribute monks always invest in.  I suspect you'd have to approach the efficiency of Blessed Light in terms of effects to fit this in regularly (though obviously with a much higher recharge), simply because monk energy is at a premium. --Epinephrine 21:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is 1/4 second cast though, so even when Migraine/Arcane Conundrum/Daze is on you it is pretty reliable provided you are out of longbow range. If energy is that much a problem they could just make it 5 energy, 1/4 cast, 12 recharge. It would be akin to a single removal spotless mind that doesn't suck or fast Cure Hex but in a viable attribute line. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 20:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A look at the hex removal quick reference reveals it is the only target ALLY hex removal with 1/4 cast. Pious Restoration and Contemplation of Purity are conditional self removals with 1/4 cast, Spotless Mind is target other ally and is bad because it doesn't remove until after a few seconds. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 21:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could preveil, this has to be 5 en to be useful, do that and up the recharge to like 15. Antiarchangel 06:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's assuming only important hexes are put on first which is not always the case (PvE).--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't prevent self knockdowns. It's only one knockdown. It's in Smiting Prayers which almost nobody uses. Antiarchangel 02:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is bad enough, but with Aura of Stability soon out it will be outdone by a non-elite skill in a much better attribute line. This needs a big boost indeed. --Xeeron 12:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Would removing the "next time" be a step in the right direction? - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 12:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well when you consider Steadfast Soul, they better remove the 'next time' or it's just flatout worse. But imo Steadfast Soul is actually too strong right now... But Balth's Pendulum could have about the same stats (5/.25/10 or 5/.25/12) and add the effect of the guy being knocked when he'd knock you, but not ending. It'd still likely see no use compared to Steadfast that's non-elite Patccmoi 13:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If you want it to see use, how about "Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, whenever target ally would be knocked down one nearby foe is knocked down instead." So it can also be used offensively with self-knockdowns. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 17:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't think of any use for this skill that relies on the other team bringing knock downs. Being able to be used offensively like you said would just be sick. Two warriors spamming Drunken/Desperate on a monk...ouch. I think this skill needs a total rework. Even if it was non-elite, in a better attribute, and had no recharge, it would still suck. No matter how much fiddling and tweaking you do with the duration, cost, cast, and recharge, this skill will still never be used. With that said...my suggestion is making it the Smiting Prayers version of my suggested Mark of Protection change..
 * 10e 1/2c 10r Elite Enchantment Spell. For 8 seconds, the next 5..10..12 times target ally would take damage, that damage is redirected to the foe that would have caused it, maximum 6...49...60. Maybe not the best/most balanced, but this skill needs a total rework : / --Deathwing 01:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I remember what a pain it was to kill monk boss in Land of Heros with my fire ele, due to this skill. Maybe should have let go of the meteor for once =P Biz 11:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is getting interesting because there are few usefull elites in Smiting Prayers, there's only Defender's Zeal (Castignation Signet is more usefull imo), Signet of Judgement, that's all that can be correctly used in GvG, TA, even in HoH imo. You can use it upon yourself, use it like SoD everytime you see there are people running KD skills that start attacking one of your teammates (bull's strike, horns of of ox or stuff like that), you can use it on your monks, everytime, to avoid them being KD by Signet of Judgement, Gale, Meteor.... The only thing it needs imo is an added effect, or another effect. Since it is in Smiting Prayers, you could add "that foe is knocked down instead and all nearby foes take 20...60 holy damages", nearby meaning "foes near the ally under the effect of this enchant". You could even rise the damage to 20...80. Otherwise you could change it into something like "target ally won't suffer from the upcoming 0...3 knockdowns" and keeping either the AoE holy damage or "and those who failed knocking him down are knockdown instead". However keeping both would require a change in casting (1s) and reload time (10s at least i think). To me, keeping both would be nice but a bit too powerfull, since it is a similar effect to Aura of Stability's (which btw needs a nerf), you can target yourself, do AoE dmg and KD your opponent. Either KD instead or AoE dmg should in this case be removed besides they both have utility. Azul  [[image:Frigid_Armor.jpg|20px]] 11:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I Would change the recharge to 1-3ish. Preferable 2.--71.184.113.36 17:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * For seconds the next  times target ally would be knockdowned that ally's target foe is knockdowned instead. If a foe knock is not targeted the nearest foe is knockdowned instead. How about that? Antiarchangel 14:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 5r>1r. If nothing else, it would give smiting a "target ally" to use with smiter's boon? -OR- make it last much longer 10...45d so it's more usable on a regular monk bar. /laughs Why do I suddenly care about smiting prayers? love, Aran 04:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill is hilariously bad. I recall laughing out loud when I capped it for the first time and read the description.  I think the most you can do with this skill is just use it to carry DF heals (boon?).  Then again, why are you trying to prot-smite to begin with?  Just use prot.  This elite (ELITE) needs to do something besides prevent a single KD.  It needs to do something that's not associated with KD, or something that can at least cause KD.  Smiting Prayers has a bit of an identity crisis going on.  When GW was first released, in ANet's apparent lack of foresight, it was assumed some monks would actually use smiting prayers because, hey... I can heal AND cause damage!  Sorry, no.  As time moved on, apparently it was attempted that Smiting should be able to protect somewhat in addition to causing damage.  Smiting isn't what it used to be in terms of DPS now that new skills have come along, and it lacks the utility necessary to make it a truly viable PvP line.  Monks are all about utility.  When you limit utility, or remove it, you end up with almost worthless niche skills like this one, that serve almost no purpose and are only used because there's nothing else to work with. --Reklaw 07:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

the next time target ally would be knocked down by a foe, that foe is knocked down instead. --> the next time target ally takes melee damage from a foe, that foe is knocked down instead. --Xeeron 11:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * the next time target ally takes melee damage from a foe, that foe is knocked down instead and takes 17..75 holy damage.


 * much like shield of judgment but easier to throw around and only affect 1 attack but deal more damage --Cursed Angel 22:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

the next 1...2...3 times target all would be knocked down one random adjacent foe is knocked down instead.--68.102.128.17 17:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "For 5...17 seconds, the next time target ally would be knocked down by a foe, all adjacent foes are knocked down instead. When this enchantment ends, all adjacent foes take XX amount of damage. (Or When this enchantment ends, all adjacent foes lose 1 enchantment)." OblivionDanny 00:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill should really some damage, after all it is in smiting. To see any real use though, it would need more than just damage. Possibly make it a three second kd since the elite is very situational. --Rururrur 23:42, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont care if you change this to 5|.25|1, for next 60 seconds when ally would have been knocked down all foes in the area are knocked down and suffer deep wound and take 100 damage, i will never be used like all the other smiting elites. --Lou-Saydus[[Image:User_Lou-Saydus_Sig_Image.png|How dare you put that damned dirty thing on me!|19px]] 21:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

this skill has a very good potential, but a huge recharge , this needs to be something like 4seconds recharge--189.70.117.42 23:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Now this it doest not negate ALL damage this should be on the same level as rof, maybe even 1 second. it doesn't heal, it doesn't protect(as much as it did before) and it's in smiting. I really dont see anything wrong with 1-2 second recharge. --Lou-Saydus[[Image:User_Lou-Saydus_Sig_Image.png|How dare you put that damned dirty thing on me!|19px]] 17:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

indeed, this skill would be perfect with 1-2sec recharge , and it would hurt a lot if used with Zealot's Fire--189.12.67.75 22:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Smiting Prayers
I mean really you can't avoid it. Smiting skills aren't good. They don't benefit from divine favor. Holy damage won't do its double damage unless your fighting an undead which are only it certain places in Pve and in PvP the only place I ever see MMs is Alliance Battles. Also smiting skills are usually more expensive than a prot skill or a Healing skill. Antiarchangel 15:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Make divine favour increase the damage done by your smiting skills by a percentage? - Cakey 18:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Smiters are already strong and have been common in GvG for several months. I can't see a problem with them.  Errr 22:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the line's more active skills need buffs and Zealot's Fire should be nerfed further. --TimeToGetIntense 01:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Zealot's Fire and most of the target ally smite skills are generally fine (certainly not too underpowered). The straight-damage skills (other than Zealot's Fire) are for the most part quite underpowered, though, except in PvE areas with undead. They're so inefficient for damage. I can see why buffing them would be difficult, or else you end up with stuff like Ritspike, but I think buffing the utility of these skills could help, or else making them decent pressure skills but impossible to spike with (mainly by decreasing energy and recharge but keeping damage per cast low). I can see that buffing smiting could be a low priority and pretty tricky though. skaspaakssa 02:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The thing about Zealot's Fire is that when it's viable, it's just in these rediculous spam builds. It's not a balanced skill at all. In Eye of the North we'll have Ghostly Weapon, Wielder's Zeal, Zealot's Fire, Ancestors' Rage smiters making their melee guy unblockable and dealing tons of aoe damage off him. --TimeToGetIntense 06:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A vast majority of smiting skills should suck. Having good direct damage on a class that has really good healing is a recipe for disaster.  You end up with retarded boring builds to play against like Signet of Mystic Wrath spike.  Smite needs to stick to the realm of a support line. -Warskull 04:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, but it could use a serious buff in that sense. Reversal of Damage is the prime example of what Smiting Prayers should have been. Provides some support while also doing some damage. Smite Hex is another good one, along with the upcoming Smite Condition. Skills like Bane Signet, Banish, and Spear of Light just fail. I guess it is neat that they do double damage to undead, but come on. The undead in Prophecies were level 10-17 content. Factions doesn't even have undead does it? The undead in Nightfall were a little stronger, but they are in about 5-10% of the game, and you spend 90% of that time in a wurm anyway. I guess they excel at killing minions, that is a valuable ability. --Deathwing 04:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Bane Signet is a cool skill. It just needs a shorter recharge. KDing a Warrior on his adrenaline spike effectively takes him out of the spike. --TimeToGetIntense 23:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Problem is buffing the support skills isn't enough. Smiting was originally misconceived. The misconception was carried on too long and there aren't enough smite skills to support smiting being an offensive support line.  It is something that has to be fixed in GW2. -Warskull 03:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This game is far better off with smiting weak. The gameplay is screwed up when monks are doing damage and able to heal/prot things.  Some skills are better left weak for the overall construct of the game.  I don't see why any intelligent player would want to see these skills widely used in PvP.--Black mischief 09:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is just wrong thinking. Smiting strong is fine, as long as it's not strong as 'direct damage', especially not spike-level damage. Bane Signet on 15s recharge would do what you think? Make teams bring 8 Monks to spike with it? No, it would just be a nice defensive utility option on a Mo/Me or Me/Mo. Smiting damage needs to be low but has good utility with it, likely more defensive than offensive. Most smite skills have the good concept really, they're actually underpowered in general (stuff like Judge's Intervention, Reversal of Damage, Bane Signet...). Signet of Mystic Wrath, Spear of Light, Word of Censure, Ray of Light, Banish, Smite, Holy Strike (remember the AoD Holy Strike monks spike?), etc. are bad concepts since they focus on direct damage, but at least most of them suck bad Patccmoi 15:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Utility ftw. Fun ftw. Direct armor-ignoring unconditional dmg ftl. Let's look at Word of Censure. Why doesn't that skill do something that actually fits the description? Seriously, how do these skills get designed? I understand that a skill can be overpowered by mistake, or be less strong than desired, but being utter thrash right from the start? Rework skill: "Enchantment Spell. The next enemy Skill used on target ally is disabled for xx..yy seconds." Adjust stats. Game needs more risk-and-reward skills. If the enemy skill used on target ally is some irrelevant one, or one of many generic ones on someones bar, you kinda wasted this spell. If that skill is a spike skill, or something more important, then the benefit is huge. It's an elite skill, it shouldn't be worse than Diversion. Servant of Kali 13:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is where I have to bring up the topic of profession proficiency. Is monk suppose to be a generally effective offensive nuker?, Is it an offensive profession?, Does it lack value?, Does it have powerful alternatives.


 * We are discussing the irrefutably most indespensible profession in the game, building a team without a monk is nearly suicide, the amount of synergy and synergy required to place most other professions as healers, who will often use monk as a secondary instead, makes it irrational to go without a monk.... often 2 monks. There is a moderate amount of release with Ritualist Restoration options, but Ritualist alone don't effectively replace monks, especially since their defensive abilities are unreliable, and Protection is neccessary.


 * So we are talking about the most prized, neccessary, valued profession in the game, with the best options for support healing and protection in the game, with little competition from most other professions in their field of expertise, and the topic is why their nuking capabilities don't match up with other professions. Well, the healing capabilities for most other professions doesn't even exist..... if monk didn't have any offensive abilities, no smiting attribute at all, would it be out of the game?, out of a possition?, would it even be less valuable?  That's pretty much your answer right there.


 * As a Original Elementist, I have to stress the value of armor ignoring damage, whether it be in PvP or PvE, half or more of your targets often have high armor, high armor can often shave off damage by 25% to 50%. So when your talking about 45 to 100 armor ignoring damage, your comparing it to skills which deal half of that half of the time in practice.  Against extremely armored opponents, elemental damage can be totally negated, unlike attacks which also deal a set amount of +damage, armor ignoring is a very powerful asset which counters armor intensive builds.  So it doesn't shine in frequency and destruction, nor do most situational effects.  Effects which typically counter certain builds or certain defenses will often yield little results against alternate situations.


 * I'm not going to say all the skills are balanced, or none of them are overpowered, but what I will say is that offensive nuking really isn't appropriate for Monk, and at the very least, they should only be effective at defensive nuking. Effects like Zealots Fire, Smite Condition and Hex, Reversal of Damage and so on are what Monk should really be doing, and trying to press for more offensive power on their offensive nukes which are situationally good anyhow isn't balanced at all from a profession value and function standpoint.  Afterall, we could remove smiting prayers from the game and monk would still be the most valuable, and because of that, snobby profession in the game.


 * So if we get started on "fixing" smiting prayers, my first suggestion is that Smite be changed to deal moderate holy damage to all foes adjacent to allied (perhaps other allied) target. Goes good with Smite Condition and Hex since they are also AoE.  We could also benifit from this or another spell becoming a smite based heal which also does damage to adjacent foes attacking the target.........you know, that alone would revolutionized smite monks.--BahamutKaiser 03:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

erm you mean Xinrae's Weapon Kali? --Lou-Saydus 18:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Smiting needs to be different
The biggest problem with smiting is when it works simply as a "do damage to target" line. That leaves either monks overpowered or smiting unused. The only way to get around the problem is to make smiting do stuff that is damage related, but not replacement for a usual damage dealing character. Skills like Balthazar's Pendulum (if it wasn't so horribly underpowered) and Smite Hex are great examples how the smiting line should look like: Combining a protecting/healing job with damage dealing. On the other hand, skills like Balthazar's Aura, Smite and Bane Signet show what it should *not* look like: Simply a copy of other classes damage dealing capabilities on a healing character. Lets forget about direct damage skills on healers, but buff those skills in smiting which can not be used to have a full monk deal kill enemies. --Xeeron 12:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with this, as it is basically what I said a couple lines up. --Deathwing 13:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I third that. I'm tired of generic skills. Make lines unique and make them actually serve a different purpose. The "target foe takes xy damage" skills are just... boring.
 * Stop bashing Bane Signet, guys! --TimeToGetIntense 21:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's AWESOME in the pre-sear catacombs. /signed btw, I'd prefer more stuff like reversal of damage. –Ichigo724 20:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, you're actually saying that Balthazar's Aura is unbalanced? 76.64.186.175 03:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No, what he meant was, people need to learn how to read more carefully. Servant of Kali 13:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Make smiting the counterpart to domination magic. Where, instead of hexing and punishing specific targets for doing specific things, have it enchant and punish enemeis for doing speciific things to that ally. I'm talking about more skills ain the same vien as Shield of judgment, reversal of damage and Retribution. Leave the Scourge enchantmen/healing/sacrifice to the domination mesmers. --Ckal Ktak 13:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't mind high direct damage conditional to the target attacking, as Spear of Light or similar.--72.211.155.160 09:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * People have made good points above, however I disagree with some parts: Yes, Smiting should be geared towards a support role where enemies are punished for taking actions against your team. However, unlike stated above, Spear of Light and Smite do fall into that class; they harm the enemy for attempting to hurt you or your teammates. Bane Siggy also falls into this category: it protects you or your allies by KDing the enemy, stopping a spike or allowing the ally to get away, heal, or counterattack, as well as throwing in some damage with it. Skills such as Word of Censure, however, are not what it should be at all: Censure does absolutely nothing at all that punishes the enemy for harming an ally and just works as a pathetic and expensive source of damage against the enemy, and should be reworked. Ray of Judgment does fit to some extent, but mainly for use against minions, though it has far too small of an AoE to be useful in almost any situation. SoMW falls into this category too: purely damage against the enemy with no condition on their part and serving no real purpose in helping your team. I don't mind that it is extremely similar to Domination in many ways, though people are failing to see a large difference between them: Aside from interrupts, Domination is primarily pre-cast "damn-if-you-do"'s. The purely offensive Smiting skills are mainly on-demand "damned-if-you-are"'s; they are actively used instead of fire-and-forget and are not wholly similar because of it --66.67.187.203 00:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Problem is, it really has no role in the game. There's already plenty of classes that do damage, which pretty much negates the need for smiting. The only place I've really used it is in pre-searing where it's just you and a buddy. Otherwise, we're just there to support the team by healing and protecting (and occasionally bonding). Everybody needs a healer. Nobody needs a smiter, as other classes do damage. Cobraa1 19:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem with making Smite too strong is 8 Monk teams. It'll be a nightmare. --Shadetz X 12:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not if it's not spike. Pressure/Utility build = uses energy = can't also use all that energy to heal/prot on top. And 8 smiters trying to kill through pressure would be fairly laughable either way Patccmoi 13:19, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I simply think there needs to be more attacks like Balthazars Aura, but scaled down, the idea here is a defensive offense, they could be like Shield Guardian, but deal damage to adjacent or nearby foes upon trigger, or something like enchant allie, next time they take damage enchantment ends and deals damage to adjacent foes. It should be alot more about retaliation rather than nuking.


 * I wouldn't say remove all of the nukes already there, these can be viable for combination professions and overly monked parites (as if there is such a shortage of all other professions to participate), but maybe a few unpractical abilities can be replaced and new ones made to enhance the line with a more retaliation focus role rather than a bunch of nukes with circumstantial damage.--BahamutKaiser 18:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Smiting is not only the most retarded attribute to waste points in, it also just suck awsomly much, I can't see how people can say that it could be overpowered if izzy increased the damage in most of these skills as if you add 14-16 in smiting you can't have both healing prayers and divine favour at a high enough level to heal any good. Healing prayers without the divine favour bonus heals less than the ritualist's restoration magic. Sure you could go protection prayers but if you lack divine favour you can't help much anyhow, and if you have 16 smiting you have at least 4 smiting skills in your bar, considering that you have maybe 3 skills left for healing/protection doesn't seem overpowered to me. --Cursed angel 00:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem would be that you end up with something very similar to RitSpike. One of the key problems when going up against an 8 man Rit team was that they could all take healing, and if they didn't, it was pretty damned hard to tell who was doing the healing so you could focus on them. This could potentially happen again with Smiting. The fact that you couldn't heal as efficiently as a full blown prot-healer becuase you have a large number of ranks in smiting would be offset by the fact that your whole team would have "target ally" heals. Wonderfully inefficient that this is to heal (Having 3 members casting spells rather than just one or two just to provide the same healing), it still completely does away with the "weakest link" problem which bears its ugly head when your monk gets a good spiking and dies when playing in a more balanced team. Since Ritspike go on just fine in spite of this, I'd say let's err on the side of caution and not let that happen again with SmiteSpike. --Ckal Ktak 07:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not make Divine Favor decrease the recharge of Smiting Prayer spells by 2% per rank(Like you did for Signet Activation Speed Reduction and Fact Casting)? That'd make Smiting more feasably usable with a slightly lower recharge, without making it excessively overpowered since the recharge is linked to DF(Which doesn't exactly have the best healing outside of the elite Blessed Light.  That'd make Smiting more up to par with other skills since the recharge will be slightly less on all the spell-based skills(Not to signets, leave signet recharge to mesmer skills).  Some elites may recharge faster(Like Shield of Judgement, but then you can just nerf the duration by 1 or 2 seconds so that a modest DF investment is needed to bring it up to par.  Wouldn't overpower 55s too much either, since they usually rely on prot prayers and healing prayer stats too much to have too high a DF.  And I think the small global smiting prayer spell recharge reduction would help fix oh-so-many problems with the Smiting Prayer line(Since it'd boost skills like Banish and even Reversal of Damage without overpowering them since they'll NEED decent DF to make a difference of even 20% at 10 DF).167.206.248.12 14:27, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They could add burning to some damage skills to increase damage but not their spiking ability. Other skills need lower recharge and one or two skills should be upgraded to deal aoe dmg. 87.189.215.252 14:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hiya, I got a request from my Dad who plays Smiting Monk alot. He suggests you lower the recharge as it's too long of a recharge.-- §  Eloc   §  00:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a fine skill. It's just the Smiting attribute being worthless altogether. Izzy can't afford to buff Smiting Prayers too much, or else everybody will just run 8 Monks and bond eachother (it's happened before).
 * It has been suggested to change Smiting Prayers to something more conditional, to allow it to have more power. That'd be a good idea. Saph 14:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Less half-assed direct damage smiting skills and more utility/damage please. Example: Reversal of Damage, Smite Hex. --<font face="times new roman" color="#990000">Deathwing 14:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty much all direct damage smiting prayer spells have long recharge time. The unconditional damage is not great either. The bonus damage condition of while foe is attacking normally applies to low priority targets, Melee and Rangers, which makes skills like Spear of Light on the bottom of the list for people to put on their skillbar. These skill will not be used much even if recharge is decreaed. --Shadetz X 10:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Needs a faster flight speed.--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 03:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. 87.189.210.34 11:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Faster flight speed, shorter recharge. I love using this when I do smite, and would like to see a buff.  -- People of Antioch   talk  ''[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png]] 05:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

*rolls up sleeves* Here comes the REALLY tough one:

Skill: 15/1/45
 * Changes: 10/1/15 "For 0...10 seconds, anyone striking target ally with an attack is knocked down for 0..3 seconds and if there are any knocked down foes adjacent to target ally when Shield of Judgement ends those foes takes 50..150 damage. Shield of Judgement deals no damage to knocked down foes if it ends early."
 * Reasoning: Like with Shadow form and amity permanent resilience is baaaaaaaaaaad. Also, Shield of judgement has a double whammy because it is also the main skill used in bot farming. With this change it will stop bot farming (I hope) and also the heavy damage at the end makes it more useful in general and also it encourages synergy with skill like shock.
 * Questions: To much damage and could it possibly be used in caster spikes? Jigoku 21:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Changing this at all will piss off farmers to no end. The 55 monk has seen many hits over the years to do this to the skill would drive most of the people who stuck around this long away from the game. It would be the most unpopular nerf since loot scaling. Dancing Gnome 13:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Only to those boring people who farm all the time, I was the happiest man in the game when loot scaling came in, because the prices of everything dropped heavily, and they're still low now. I'd say do an even simpler change to it:
 * 5/0.25/12 "Enchantment Spell, For 3..10 seconds, any foe striking target ally with an attack takes 5 holy damage and is knocked down." This would make it a potent protection skill for monks, as it wouldn't need a massive investment in smiting to serve its purpose, which would be to get attackers off the target and break up pressure. It'd shoot farmbots dead, and no-one will miss them when prices fall and people can no longer pay for in game money. The damage is only there for feedback purposes. --Ckal Ktak 11:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I belive that Shield Of Jugment should be brought back to Pvp this can simply be done with a 30 sec recharge wich would alow this skill to be more usefull. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:150.176.182.29.


 * Reducing the recharge would suck. And prices won't fall because of a lack of supply, they will SKYROCKET. However, I do like that suggestion (Ckal's). [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 22:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ckal's suggestion is very nice... IF it were to be in the protection line... but it isnt... however, it is in the smiting line and it really cant afford to be losing less damaging skills... so keep the damage it was previously at, and just shorten the recharge + duration. OblivionDanny 01:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Half damage + half recharge could do the trick. 87.189.248.197 12:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Really surprised this isn't here. I think it could be changed to maybe be an anti-shout/chant skill. Such as, target cannot use chants or shouts for 3...7...9(1/12/16) seconds, with a 5e cost and 2-3r, 3/4c, and drop the dmg altogether. Like Wail of Doom, but for chants etc.  <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 22:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have received input from guildies, and they say make it have a small AoE, or Vocal Minority completely owns it. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 00:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sadly I'm the only guildie =P &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 01:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * True enough... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 01:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Would this work ? Elite Spell. Target foe and one nearby foe takes 15...63...75 holy damage. If your target was below 33% Health, Word of Censure takes 20 additional seconds to recharge. If more than one foe was struck, you gain 3 Energy. 87.189.210.34 12:32, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The main reason people don't use this is NOT because it's a damage elite, but because it's unwieldy in two departments:recharge and cost. Like most Smiting Prayers, we'll never see this in high-end PvP, but this could be popular a PvE spell if it was easier to use. This skill should cost less, recharge slower naturally(if the condition isn't met) and have a less severe "if" condition. Actually, since this is supposed to be "Word of Healing"'s evil twin, why doesn't it deal more damage if they're above 50%? In any case, the reason people don't use this is because it's fail in 2 ways. Reduce that to only 1 way of failing, and we can see cute PvE smiters. And maybe some new gimmick builds for RA. xP Adding AoE wouldn't make this more appealing at all because people don't use Ray of Judgment either. RitualDoll 01:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with everything you said, except with the last sentence. I would definitely give it a try in PvE if it would deal aoe dmg. For single target dmg I would go Mo/N or N/Mo and use Necrosis. Ray of Judgment has too high recharge time and Signet of Judgment + Mantra of Inscriptions is a better choice. 87.189.247.19 17:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Adding AoE to things doesn't fix them. It just makes them appeal in PvE. This should not cause AoE. Like Word of Healing should not cause AoE heal. If anything, this and Ray of Judgment both need to be buffed a lot; and Censure would probably appeal to PvP more, and RoJ to PvE. Aoe =\= Answer RitualDoll 15:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I love the idea of making this an evil twin of Word of Healing. Additonal damage to enemies above 50% health, faster recharge, and 1/2 to 3/4 cast speed. This skill is disabled for 20 seconds if it strikes a foe below 25% health.  This skill is disabled for 10 seconds if it strikes a foe below 33% health. Don't make it AoE, or if you do, shout range and make it nerfed energy, cast, and recharge. -- People of Antioch   talk  ''[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png]] 08:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this skill needs to be changed. If its an enchantment, it should be changed to target other allys also. This would be nice because it could add a useful purpose to a smiting monk. He could cast zealots fire on the healing monk, and use his own smiting skills to do some damage, and the healing monk would also be doing damage from healing allys. 74.135.1.179
 * But that ally would also lose 1 Energy for casting a spell. It's fine as a Self Cast only Spell, could do with a bit more damage, however.
 * Just make it give target ally 1 energy when you cast on them. --Lou-Saydus[[Image:User_Lou-Saydus_Sig_Image.png|How dare you put that damned dirty thing on me!|19px]] 21:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Then it would be as lame as prenerf Energizing finale. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 20:58, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

given the 30 recharge, it shouldn't disable your skills. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 23:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * i say that you should change the recharge to something like 10 secondz it would give monkz a chance to do something new in pve! it would be quite fun, also itz only adjacent location and hardley worth being called an elite atm at all 24.238.94.19 21:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Change function from "...animated undead.." to "...undead.". that'll be a pure PvE buff. Yay for PvE. [[Image:User BaineTheBotter Icon notify before deletion.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  13:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * They should reduce the energy cost to 10 and the recast time to 15 seconds. "Change function from "...animated undead.." to "...undead."." I think this is also an good idea as stated above for PvE. A. von Rin 17:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

20 seconds recharge is quite long for a condition removal skill that does nothing else. Move this to devine favor and scale the number of conditions removed by attributes and decrease recharge to 8 or 10 seconds. ATM, I have only seen PVE runners (Monk secondary) using this. --216.113.208.132 01:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But it's under no attribute so other professions can use it without having to waste skill points.-- §  Eloc   §  05:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * After the release of Nightfall people prefer using Mending Touch for PVE running. I have to agree that this does have long recharge. --Shadetz X 10:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * A good reason to use this skill is BHA, if you accept the general consensus that it is underpowered, how about 15r as a start? love, Aran 21:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind the changes are none of our decisions, contrary to what people here seem to believe. It's Izzy's decision and we can only tell him which skills and make minor comments, not tell him exactly how to do his own job.-- §  Eloc   §  22:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont see anyone in here saying their decision is final,for a suggestion on the skill, decrease recharge to 10-12. The comment on having to invest skill points makes no sense btw, Mending Touch does not require any investment to remove two conditions.--Atlas Oranos 11:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yer this skill kinda lost its appeal with the introduction of Mending Touch. Conditions are so easy to remove in this game these days anyway I don't know why they are there any more. Maybe make it lose 2 conditions and the recharge at 10.Dancing Gnome 16:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Needs at MAX 12-15 recharge to be competitive (Daze is applied around that often and blind application other than through air magic is along those lines). Look at Resilient was Xiko with its 10 recharge, people still don't use it much. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 00:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Like light of Dwayna, it's very very bad. There are two kind of res skills: battle res and regroup res. In dangerus areas, many people will take rebirth. Rebirth is the worst possible battle res, but is can bring a party back from one living member. Res sig is probably the best battle res (hence why it's used in PvP all the time), as any class can use it and it's quick and free. Resurrect is bad in battle as you get a useless, mostly dead character to deal with who will immediately be aggro target, same story if you're regrouping. I predict that even if resurrect was changed to 5e, 3c, 8r, it would still go unused. 79.67.72.45 21:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like a buffer zone effect. "Target ally is revived with 33% health and 25% energy.  This ally is impervious to all melee attacks and cannot attack for 3 seconds." Make the recharge longer to compensate. -- People of Antioch   talk  ''[[Image:User People of Antioch sig.png]] 08:07, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * All this needs is more health, and 25% res person is gonna die in like an instant especially with DP. Antiarchangel 06:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill should just read: "Kill target party member again." Pluto 13:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, so true. Any hard resurrection needs to provide a lot of health, or simply be a PvE tool for after partial wipes.  Since it's not useful it should either be changed to be handy in PvP, or handy in PvE.  --Epinephrine 20:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

With a high energy cost, a tiny AoE, and bringing dead foes back at low health and no energy, there is pretty much no reason for anyone to ever use this. I suggest you move it to Divine Favor with a high rate of failure (75% or 100%) with 4 Divine Favor or less, increase range to earshot, and increase casting time by a few seconds, up to 6-10. 69.137.78.47 17:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Make it rez everything in the area, enemies included. 66.25.22.44 16:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)