User:Wynthyst/Jora vs Livia

{| width="100%" cellspacing="10" style="-moz-border-radius:10px;background: ;"
 * valign="top" width="50%" style="-moz-border-radius:14px;background: ; border: 6px groove ; padding=0.5em;"|

{| align="center" width="100%" cellspacing="0" style="-moz-border-radius:10px; background: white; border: 2px ridge ;"
 * rowspan= "3" valign="top" style="padding: 1em;"|

Feel free to comment here :D

So what do you think?
I personally think Livia gets too much hype for her cleavage.... doesn't hold a candle to Jora :D -- Wyn 05:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Jora's got the bigger rack. Well, duh, she's only 8 feet tall XD SarielV [[Image:User SarielV sig.png|20 x 20px]] 05:44, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Livias the hottest hero i have. :) And shes part of sabway total FTW &mdash; Seru   [[Image:User Seru Sig2.png|19px]] Talk
 * Jora! Livia's too emo for me.--[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 06:22, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Jora. Just because I love the tall ladies! ^.^ I like girls who can look me in the eye without bending her neck up (although Jora would bend her neck down >.>) *BTW, I'm 6'7", so many girls are shorter then me by over a foot v.v) - Azazel The Assassin 06:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm, well imo Jora looks like a man who um likes to dress up *cough*. So I guess Livia, she is the goth/emo type that doesn't mind showing off her... um... assets, which is very sexy to most men, especially gamers I have happened to notice.  So Livia wins!  -- Shadowphoenix  [[Image:User Shadowphoenix Necromancer.png|19x19px| Happy Halloween ]] 19:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Livia FTW -- W o  B [[Image:User Wings of Blood sig icon.png|19px]] 20:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * JoraDominator Matrix  05:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * {{Koss > {Livia = Jora}} << Goren} = {{Vekk < {Gwen > Xandra} < Norgu} >> Melonni}} << Razah, the EoaD. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  05:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * PS: Cleave outclasses Cleavage. Yes, I'll even wikify life if necessary =P Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  05:30, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Im partial to the redheads, so Livia :P --Xenktray 21:59, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's my man instinct but I got to go with Livia. All I gotta say is dangerously intriguingly red headed sexy woman.--ShadowFog 05:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As a man who falls for women, I say they both don't do anything for me. Besides the fact that I still don't understand why, in Fantasy art, men go out fighting in enormous armors, while women wear little more than underwear. Personally, if I went to war, I'd pick the armor. 145.94.74.23 10:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I love Livia's hair...But the most cute female hero is Xandra. For sure ^^ | Cyan Light [[Image:User Cyan Light SB.jpg|19px]] Here! | 10:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Anon has a good point about the armor, and that irks me. I don't think I would like either personality-wise (my first and one of the most important factors), but I would go with Livia for looks.  I like the red hair, don't like the exposure, but like the whole vibe of her outfit anyway (60 armor, eh?). --[[Image:User PoA Sig.png|Talk]] Antioch 16:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, lets compare a person, as a whole, to a traveling salesman, in a way. Think about their apperance as the sales pitch, and their personality, intelligance, ect, as the actual product. It often doesn't matter how good the product is, if the salespitch isn't any good. On the flip side, sometimes the product is so bad, the best sales pitch in the world is still gong to fail. There are always people that are good at the sales part *cough* (double meanings are fun) and those that may have a good product, but don't know how to present it. I hope I didn't confuse anyone :P &mdash;  Jon  23:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Jora is too big and manly, go livia--[[Image:Stylish Yule Cap.png|19x19px]] Razsel   talk  14:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Livia is a hot goth and a freakin strong hero!--Avatar of grenth 01:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised Herta is not even mentioned here. She outcleavages them both :) BenderRodriguez 22:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

See, you all fail. I think Hayda is the one to watch. Rhys ;D
 * Gotta but in here, but if were going off the livia vs Jora, Korimir wins it. You can't beat godlike cleavage. <364.81.80.97 02:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Livia, imo. Anymore than a mouthful is just a waste!--D N A 18:56, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Given that I think too much, I think Livia has it. The comment about female armor fails to consider the over-all protection it gives.  An important part of a woman's protection is the restraint their sex places on other (even female) members of their species.  That effect requires their 'assets' (pun intended) to be displayed.  However, too obvious a presentation will trigger a counter reaction.  The effect on other species will be different, so some real armor is also needed if that is a factor they have to deal with.  Livia presents her assets to a better advantage than Jora.  Her cleavage is more strongly marked, due in part to her garment, and the garment reduces the counter reaction.  This also shows that she is properly aware of her impact which an intelligent observer will note and that will in turn add to her protection.  Jora's cleavage is less distinct and over exposed.  Most of this reaction is so automatic that few people realize that there are reasons for those reactions.      mtew 16:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pixel boobs >the real thing :D  Black ' Blood  [[Image:User BlackBlood Blooddrop.jpg]]''' 16:27, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * mtew: I call bullshit. The taboo on hitting females comes from their average lack of strength and aggressiveness compared to men; thus I would expect a sweet, child-like appearence to be far more effective in deterring attacks than an exaggeratedly womanly appearence would. I find it very difficult to believe that a solider will actually look at exposed cleavage and think, "oh shit, a woman". Instead they'll think, "weak spot." Psychological manipulation is one thing, but leaving your heart unprotected is just stupid. --Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]Donelle  16:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You are not thinking deeply enough. Survival in mammals calls for the protection of females.  Their relative strength in our species is a social excuse used to divert attention from the more sexual nature of the basic reaction.  That diversion reinforces those who support an authoritarian hierarchy where the more basic reason supports a hierarchy based on 'merit'.  This reaction has to be overcome with training in the modern military.  In a less sophisticated environment, the failure to distinguish between the sexes would cause the death of the female in a mating fight.  Those without that automatic reaction would be less likely to propigate.      mtew 17:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * We are speaking here of political and survival battles and the armour one wears during them; not mating fights amongst savage creatures. So your point is moot even if we assume you are correct. (And I'm still highly sceptical, because survival of any species is more dependant on the protection of offspring than females. The female may be primarily responsible for raising the offpsring, but it's far from unknown for females in herd species to get beaten or even killed by the alpha male. Humans are a prime example: would you rather punch a woman in the face, or a 5 year-old child?) --<font color="#001100">Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]<font color="#001100">Donelle  19:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Bah, I worded those last two sentences badly; I made it look like I was implying that all males are wife beaters. What I meant was that males (and other females) care little for females in the grand scheme of things; children are the important ones. --<font color="#001100">Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]<font color="#001100">Donelle  19:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually we are speaking here about an FRPG. I think you are messing up the fun a bit by trying to make it too realistic, at least as you view reality.  You did phrase that last badly but that is not the problem.  The comparison should be between hitting an adult man or an adult woman.  (Children in fights with adults is another issue entirely.  A very hot issue and should not have been dragged into this!)  As you noted, striking women is frowned upon (understatement); that is part of what I was talking about.      mtew 20:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh. I'm using my view of reality as a basis for comparison (as are you, it should be noted), because fiction can go wherever you want it to and you can't really resolve a discussion that way. I also don't think it's a valid argument to ask whether you'd rather hit an adult man or adult woman: most people will choose the male, but that doesn't prove which of us is right, since both our views depend on the male being chosen. It's much less likely that social conditioning prevents us from wanting to attack children, however, because most young mammals elicit that reaction in humans. I can't think of many female animals that make us go "aww". --<font color="#001100">Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]<font color="#001100">Donelle  20:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * PS: I thought this was fun. You're not having fun? --<font color="#001100">Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]<font color="#001100">Donelle  20:32, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, it does depend on the man (or woman) involved and the other people involved in the situation. I'm arguing that the cleavage display has a protective effect, especially in a non-hostile environment like an FRPG. As for the 'fun', I find arguments (like this) more enjoyable when the other people involved do not deliberately foul up the communication with irrelevant side issues. Bea t ing children is definitely not an issue when comparing Livia and Jora. mtew 21:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole "beating children" thing was a hypothetical question posed to prove a point about protective responses in humans, and had nothing to do with child abuse. Indeed, my point was that the natural insctinct for a human is to protect a child, not to hit it. If I had worded my question badly, I would have clarified my point to prevent misunderstanding -- oh wait, I did. It was you who brought up the issue of child abuse, and you who is deliberately fouling up the conversation by hanging on to an irrelevant side-issue. --<font color="#001100">Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]<font color="#001100">Donelle  21:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't bother to reply; I can't say I'm interested in this asinine conversation anymore. --<font color="#001100">Mme. [[Image:User Mme. Donelle sig.jpg]]<font color="#001100">Donelle  21:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you.     mtew 21:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I love the way people can write paragraphs on this :P. Anyway, my votes on Livia! The Deathless Derv 21:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I... do not know what to say about this. Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk 21:53, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Graphics aside, Livia can buildwars Jora to death easily. 82.34.128.19 21:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * hmmm I'm amazed no one said both. Two are always better than 1 right? ...or 4 better than 2 ^_^ but all that aside I think Livia has better *caugh* graphics... DustScorpion 14:22, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I vote Wyn because she, as a female, started this. Which makes this whole thing entirely awesome.--  anguard  18:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as the armor issues that were brought up earlier, I have to say as a female, who plays female characters, it's always annoyed me that the more we have to pay for armor, the less of it there seems to be! I mean... seriously what ranger, a profession that supposedly specializes in Wilderness survival, is going to go out to fight in a string bikini, AND pay 75k for the privilege? --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 09:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * From the protection provided, the amount of material used and the cost, there has to be some serious magic involved to produce that much transparency.     mtew 17:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a general rule in fantasy games that the more skin is showing on a female character, the higher her armor level/hit points. On a somewhat contradictory note, female Assassin Vabbian is a nice counterpoint. And female Ele Obsidian.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 18:44, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

ROFL, I love the fact that we got from who has the most impressive cleavage to a chat about socio-political representations of women and survivalist instincts of social grouping animals. Anyhoo to answer the OP's original question, I have to go with acolyte jin for this one, as both Jora and Livia look like they've had bad cosmetic surgery. -- Salome   12:52, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL Salome! I put this up for the sole purpose of having a discussion just for the fun of discussing, so the twists and turns just make it more interesting :D --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 13:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Livia of course. Jora's cleavage is too pixly for my taste. &mdash; Galil 00:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to have 4 hands. Yseron - 90.14.224.26 00:58, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i would say jora or what ever shes called she is tall blonde and has blue eyes :) --Nick123 20:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * antisemitism ALERT!!!! I'd go for both ^^ Giggity User:DarkMugen 14:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Livia's cleavage is unquestionably dominant to Jora's. —[[Image:User Rein_Of_Terror sig.png|19px]] Rein Of Terror  20:17, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Jora would win if she didnt look like a man -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 20:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Cynn wins. Old school crush FTW! (also, thongs > cleavage). Also, melee female armor is not skimpy (with the exception of Gladiator, which is supposed to be skimpy, and thus is skimpy for both male and female), only ranged professions have skimpy armor, so it still makes sense (kinda). Also, I would totally rather punch a 5 year-old. (Satanael 20:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Livia has awesome boobs...she's stylish like me and Livia has that epic Victoria Beckham hair cut. I'd wear it but my supposed "horse face" might prevent it. -- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 02:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * /vote Livia <font color="Black">-- § <font color="Red">Lacky <font color="Black">§  [[Image:User_Lacky_sig.png|My Contributions]] Talk 00:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You computer sucks. Jora's Bewbs are low quality. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 22:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the way you think, Satanael! &mdash; Galil [[Image:User Galil sig.png|Talk page]] 00:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * LIVIA ^^ Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] *poke*  19:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Livia also has a powerful staff... in her positi..I mean possession. --Ravious 19:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are you all talking about my beautiful wife Jora? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:25, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I am unsure which way to vote here. On the one hand, I am partial to redheads, so you would think Livia.  On the other hand, Jora could kick your ass if you didn't vote for her, and without breaking a sweat (well, you might be sweating but she wouldn't).  They both have strong arguments for either one.  If it is just in the amount of cleavage shown, Livia; if it were a case of how capable that cleavage was, then Jora.  42 -  talk  19:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I thin this is discrimination. Where is the Headmaster Vhang Vs Anton topic? You leave the 'other' minded people out!!! Rhonin Soren 20:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Who would ever vote for Headmaster Vhang? such a pompous ass... ( Satanael |  talk ) 21:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * first jora vs livia isn't about their character either :p and second there arn't really a lot of cute male npc in the game. Anton looks like he came straight ou of the US Navy Rhonin Soren 08:47, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point on the personality side. Nonetheless, I would think Rurik would be a better choice than Vhang, I mean, he's a prince for god's sake. Regardless of looks, the power thing is always a consideration :P ( Satanael |  talk ) 16:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rurik looks Fugly. the mustache is a big turn-off and his armor makes him look fat :p and power isn't everything. i would never date abbadon, the lich or shiro and they are the most powerfull npc's i think Rhonin Soren 17:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the turn off from those guys would be that they would as likely kill you as anything. Okay, but there are certainly others that could work, how about Mhenlo? Or Ivor Trueshot? or Koss? or Daeman if you're into older looking guys? or Yijo Tahn? or Warmaster Tydus? Or Dunham, Orion, Kai Ying? or Kahmu? or any number of other guys that are in the game. I think you're not looking hard enough for the guys, there are plenty of them. ( Satanael |  talk ) 19:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm into older dudes, so Aidan has my vote. However, I'm not a big fan of facial hair (sorry KJ).-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 19:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Orion And Kay-YIng are kinda oké the rest is old. Tydus has the army-haircut and yijo has a babyface :p ow and kahmu is black and bald Rhonin Soren 21:11, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Just as long as we don't let Zhed, Vekk, or Pyre into this discussion. Eww...69.249.223.63 02:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Inter-species gay porn can be hot to. Look at Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins Rhonin Soren 18:52, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I liked the Liara T'Soni on Jane Shepard in Mass Effect. While technically not gay (since the asari don't have a gender), The Asari are feminine enough that I think it counts. ( Satanael |  talk ) 20:25, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * My vote would be for Livia, gotta love the comment of DNA in the beginning of the discussion, and is sad that Gwen didn't qualify to be even mentioned XDD --Batousai 04:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Livia, undeniably DemonicFahrir 11:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad their both taken... by Mehnlo along with every other female (and some male) NPCs in the game. You just cant resist is scalp tatoo! Yay Killing Charr talk 21:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Livia is full of win! Because she isn't blonde. And she's a godlike healer. ;) Salve, --Saxxon 23:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh and before I forget, the mankind contest winner is Suun for the very reason that his hat is from outer space. Ave, --Saxxon 00:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Rofl @ Suun :D I vote Livia!!! Except for that first cinematic in eotn when the player meets Jora for the first time. There's some serious Jora cleavage in that cinematic. But other than that, Livia wins, hands down. Also, reading through this page literally made me laugh out loud :D --Teska Jadestar 07:07, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Mmmmm they both are so nice. but I think Fantil is better. So tasty looking. 24.239.11.71 07:21, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats VERY creepy that you think I am o.O but anyways I think Livia because Jora is a team killer >.< User Fantil Swift Sig Icon.jpg antil    Swift  15:18, 27 February 2011 (UTC)