Talk:Seeping Wound

Discussion
Why is this even an elite? Toxicity, considering it doesn't take up the elite slot, is a much better alternative. The Holy Llama 07:21, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Toxicity can easily be just as bad for your team, though - this only goes where you put it.Fourth Horseman 08:44, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
 * That's true, but still, this is nowhere near worth of an elite. It's perfect counter is mending, which if we were being fair, would make mending elite.

... Can't even comprehend how underpowered this is.. Who rlly cares if you get an extra 4 degen?? a burning arrow ranger can do max degen, without being a waste of space. Experienced 06:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

...I think i can compare this to one of the easiest degeneration spells, Shrinking Armor. These two have the same energy cost, the same cast time and shrinking armour recharges 2 seconds faster. Ok... after this comparision i dont know why arena net haven't buffed it. If the foe still is hexed after 10 seconds the assassin have done something wrong, assassins doesn't kill someone slow with degeneration, and after all, does it matter if the target gets an 4 health degeneration? It's 8 health per second cheers! Also you must have a skill to cause poison or bleeding with for it to work, why not just cast Life Siphon and you get som healing too.
 * Shrinking armor causes 3 degen for 10 seconds (level 12) "causes cracked armor after 10 seconds or when removed, is not an elite."
 * Seeping wound causes 3 degen for 17 seconds (level 12) "Only work if target is bleeding or poisoned, this is an elite and is in the assassin primary attribute."
 * Even poison does the same damage, this can be countered with mending, Conjure Phantasm is better, I have never seen this skill been used by anyone ever. And I understand why. --Cursed angel 11:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is also the only hex in critical strikes, and one of two hexes outside of deadly arts that won't end prematurely. Weather that's worth elite status is debatable, but it does have value in that capacity. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 12:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

It could definently use a buff in the amount of degeneration, I was thinking of around -8 or something(ala Conjure Nightmare). Also this would pair nicely with Poison Tip Signet then. Could keep assassins from the overused Shadow Prison spiker/DA spiker. Sheba 18:47, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Just make a foe who is under this hex and suffering from bleeding or poison also lose 2...5..6 health each second. this would give it a little extra dmg and make it worth its elite by allowing assassins to break the 10 degen cap. Kraken 17:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow who designed this skill to be an elite?Highway Man 05:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

/agree with kraken,i would however make it PHYSICAL damage as it would have a great synergy with skills like barbs etc :).81.244.114.207 16:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe the most effective way to buff this skill would be to have it inflict a certain small amount of physical damage, FOLLOWED by the degen. This would make it more worthy of an elite slot. Faul 16:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe changing it to something like:
 * For 5...17...20 seconds, if target foe is suffering from Bleeding or Poison, that foe suffers -1...3...4 Health degeneration. When this Hex ends target foe suffers from a Deep Wound for 3...7...9 seconds...:)--Spider osiris 22:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm about 90% sure that this does, in fact, cause more degen if they are both bleeding and poisoned. But not going to test it, because I don't really care and it's still bad, even if it works as I think. 71.31.149.63 20:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It does. Bleeding is -3 and Poison is -4, so thats -7 degen. if you add average degen from seeping wound, you get an additional -6 degen, coming up to -13 degen, which would then cap out at the -10. I hope I said that right. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png]] Wandering Traveler 21:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds about right. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  09:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Major Buff
The only use in this skill that I can see currently is to apply a hex for Black Spider Strike. And it's not even the best choice for that. Therefore, I think it should be changed to do something more like this:

5e, 3/4a, 10r

Elite Skill. Must follow a dual attack. seconds. Causes - Health degeneration. Deals damage if target is Poisoned. Deals damage if target is Bleeding.

Comments/Suggestions? Also, how do I make the little energy, activation and recharge symbols? RitualDoll 00:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * With a recharge of 10, you could use it twice with the same Dual Attack 68.62.233.226 05:21, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

How about making it 10 pips of degen for 4...12...20 seconds? it'd be like single-target pressure for condition teams. maybe an 8 second recharge so you couldn't just spam it all over. remember that degen caps at 10 pips, but this would be able to counter any regen like breeze or mystic. 68.50.167.100 21:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * An interesting idea...but no, it needs a buff of some kind, but yea, make it max out at like 8 or something as well as like 5...10...15 seconds and like a 15 second recharge. perhaps make it even unconditional. I mean it would kinda make sense either way, conditional or not. Another thing could be:

--71.67.243.230 18:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Elite Spell. Target foe suffers from bleeding and suffers from - Health Degeneration.
 * Elite Skill. If target foe is under the effect of a condition that foe suffers from bleeding and deep wound.
 * Elite Offhand Attack. (either must follow lead or just a starter attack*) Target foe suffers from bleeding. deals {gr|10|25|}} damage.
 * Another idea:


 * Elite Skill: Target Touched foe suffers from deepwound and bleeding. (could count as a lead or offhand attack.)

-Would be like a player version of twisting jaws without the insta-death part, and would be pretty useful.


 * Elite Spell: Target foe suffers from bleeding for seconds and is hexed with seeping wound for  seconds. While under the effect of seeping wound, bleeding is re-applied if foe is not currently under the effects of bleeding. When Seeping wound ends, target foe suffers from deepwound and crippled for  seconds.

-That would create an original skill that is worthy of elite status and is not like any other skill in the game. Also it would not be that over powered, and would just be a way of maintaining bleeding on a foe, and would not be a skill that would be too hazardous to other players until it ended; meaning that because the deepwound and crippled is not on command, it would not be able to be used for spiking unless the assassin is really good at timing or had another character devoted to assisting in the spike.

-Also, bleeding is the most common condition and the easiest condition to spread. I point at barbed spear for this example.

It would create (hopefully) a whole new aspect to the game, where if the condition is removed it is just re-applied so the hex must be removed to get rid of the condition, while still being a basic condition.--71.67.243.230 19:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

heres an idea.. since it's with critical strike, how about, Seeping Wound Elite hex spell, For 5..17...20 sec target foe take 20..30..50 damage and suffers for bleeding deepwound for 5 sec every time you make a critical hit on them, 5 cost, 1 cast, and 10 recharge, i think this would go right well with sin, number could vary for balance reason--Metal Sazz 01:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it should make the enemy take more damage in addition to its current effects. then it might be worth taking.

fails
enduring toxin has 5 degen, can reapply itself, has the same recharge, and casts twice as fast. oh and lets not forget the fact that its not elite and you dont have to meet any requirements--24.154.188.10 03:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This doesn't fail. It counters Mending perfectly. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Update
So... it's better now, I guess, a little bit?  Raine  - talk  02:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Damnit, ANet nerfed my favorite joke skill by making it better than Mending. They even got PnH. I'll have to fall back on Mending. >.> Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 02:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you're pretty awesome. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  03:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting... so if a foe is poisoned, which is 12 dmg/sec, 11 Crit will double this damage to 24 dmg/sec which is equal to 8 pip loss... so posion and bleed will result in a 7 pips for 21 dmg/sec plus this at 11 for 12 dmg/sec, equaling 32 dmg/sec... which now moves you past the 10 pip limit becuase this degen is seperate from pip degen. Add other standard degen with this at 11 crit... you looking at 42 dmg/sec (maxed out) for 10-20 at a time... thats 420 dmg over a piriod of 10 secs not bad SabreWolf 03:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what they said about Glimmering Mark, too, and look what happened to that...! Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 420 damage over 10 seconds is just pathetic. If they made this a deadly arts skill I guess it might be useful a necro primary spamming all those condition spells, but even then it's kinda meh.  It's still bad, but not as bad.  --Jette 03:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It smashes RoF's. 220.255.7.201 04:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well What about -10 degen this elite AND glimmering mark, someone do the maths im sure its nice :D Lodgeinator 17:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking it would be somewhere in the area of Lightning Hammer every 5 seconds. Except you can use Lightning Hammer every four seconds and it doesn't require two elites.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  00:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically, you can only cast it ever 6 seconds. --Jette 03:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * this (assuming spec for 13 dps), 10 degen (from other hexes and poison/bleeding), and glimmering mark (25 dps sounds reasonable for it) would add up to around 58 dps. Not very much, sure, but you can just lay it down on somebody and then spike someone else. Or HECKS PRESHUR. ~ ZamaneeJinn 20:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Until this (and Mark) ignore armor, they are totally useless in my book. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

What type of damage does this deal?
Seeping doesn't trigger barbs or MoP, so it's not physical damage, but it's affected by armor so it has to be some form of damage....is there any way to find out? 75.61.32.166 21:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Try using Greater Conflagration, Winter, Mantra of Flame, and Mantra of Frost. If it triggers Mantra of Flame using GC, then it's some type of physical. If it triggers Mantra of Frost under Winter, then it's some type of elemental. If neither work, then it is one of the other damage types...or perhaps even untyped, but that would be unusual. I wonder if it triggers Stone Striker and Mantra of Earth. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 21:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not elemental either (I tried that already). I'm actually pretty pissed off that this isn't physical damage, because that's the only thing that could make this skill worth a crap. 75.61.32.166 21:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I have doubts that it is Holy, but you could use it on someone wearing Tormented insignia, or undead...and there is no way to tell between Chaos, Dark, and typeless damage. I would say it is health loss, but that is not affected by armor. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 21:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it's holy. Holy damage is typically armor-ignoring (except in a few rare cases). I also doubt it's dark or chaos, because they are usually not as useless as Seeping Wound's damage. To help you understand how bad and weird this damage is, against a Margonite Monk in DoA on HM it only did 3-4 damage per second (and no, he had no enchants on himself). 75.61.32.166 21:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

what about chaos damage? 86.157.198.31 01:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would doubt it, but I don't know. It could be chaos or dark, but there's no way to test those. 75.61.32.166 21:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

December 11th update made this what type of damage?
This skill deals incremental damage, but it's not armor ignoring and it doesn't trigger barbs or MoP....so it's not physical damage. What type of damage does Seeping Wound do? (btw, this skill still sucks. It's like auto-attacking as a sin...which is terrible). 75.61.32.166 21:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I assume it causes some form of elemental damage. Test it with Mark of Rodgort, Spinal Shivers, and... hmmm... well, Glimmering Mark and Thunderclap used to be used for checking air damage but they've made those skills not suck now, so we can't.  If neither of those work, get a friend to help test it in a scrimmage.  Have him equip +X vs. Y elemental damage armor on all parts of his body, and see which reduces it.  If none of that works, then it's probably Light, Dark, or Chaos damage, none of which technically ignore armor.  You can test for light damage by casting it on an undead creature (make sure it's fleshy or it won't be poisoned or bleed), but there's no way to test for dark or chaos.  --Jette 09:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This elite still sucks.. and it can still be removed with the greatest of ease. As sucky as this elite is though, it'd make me think twice about removing it as it sucks so bad. I'd prolly just remove the conditions LOL. --Ulterion 16:40, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mesmers have mantra stances vs each specific, so you can easily test that without swapping weapons or armor. As mentioned above, light you can tell with a necro's tormented insignia.  The only two that you can't test are chaos and dark.  I'd say this was dark instead of chaos, based on assassins being dishonorable kill you in your sleep people.  StatMan 06:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tried everything I can think of and it still isn't affected by any damage modifiers (ie:mesmer mantras, etc). It's not physical or elemental and there's no way to test if it's something else. 24.26.253.105 11:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Find grasping ghoul
 * 2) Cut it
 * 3) Cast Seeping Wound
 * I'm not sure how to make a flowchart without spending more than 10 seconds making it, but here's the general idea: if it's dealing twice the damage it's supposed to, it's light damage. Otherwise, it's chaos or dark damage.  Alternately, find a necromancer with Tormentor's Insignia.  --Jette 20:36, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Dark damage, Chaos damage, and Holy damage are in the same group. They are not physical, not elemental.  Holy damage does x2 vs certain undead, and necro's with tormentor's insignia.  So as I said above, and will say again, this skill deals either dark or chaos damage.  There are no game mechanics to tell the difference between these.  Also, to state again, armor that adds Physicial AL (like a warriors armor), or elemental AL (like ranger armor) will not help against dark or chaos damage, since it is neither physical nor elemental.  StatMan 21:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it could be untyped damage. Afaik, skills like Winter would still effect dark and chaos damage, but not untyped. So you could try that. --JonTheMon 21:45, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * but the problem is, untyped damage ignores armor. i suppose because of that fact this section generally exists. The weird thing here is that the concise description actually should state if it is any specific type of damage, given that it was created automatically like all other concise description back on the day the update that introduced them arrived. But possibly post-changed skills get their concise description added manually, therefore it could have a little mistake. Or this is in fact untyped damage that doesn't ignore armor and as such simply an anomaly... &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 09:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Technobabble does not ignore armor. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 22:56, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

so i herd this dealt Chaos damage. The note can't be proven right or wrong with the tools currently available, so there is no harm in leaving it; at the same time, I'd want to remove it anyway precisely because there's no way to prove it deals Chaos damage. Vili 04:04, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Chaos doesn't make sense for a assassin. Dark damage makes more sense.  I vote we change it to dark.  Chaos seems linked to untyped magic stuff. StatMan 06:44, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

the skill is still crap. not an improvment at all., not worth elite status still. remove from game61.43.253.65 03:19, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Linsey says its chaos damage--75.94.77.148 17:10, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, uhm... I've noticed izzy toying with "health per second" mechanics, I wanna just say it IT'S NOT WORKING. If he wants to do this 10-20-someodd damage per second elite skill crap, atleast make the damage armor ignoring. This elite blows now, because it really doesn't help at all. Most Monks use shields in RA, lowing that already sucky damage per second. This skill, and a few other choice skills (Hundred Blades, Glimmering Mark) need to be updated to be armor ignoring.--[[image:User Media Control Ravenous Bite 2.png|19px]] Media Control talk 12:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If Hundred Blades was armor-ignoring, that would be enormously overpowered. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 15:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, as it stand it's kinda underpowered. :/--[[image:User Media Control Ravenous Bite 2.png|19px]] Media Control talk 04:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If Seeping Wound ignored armor, it would be decent / good. The old one did like 3-4 degen or something, which is 6-8 damage per second. Currently if it ignored armor, it would do around 14 damage per second at typical Critical Strikes, or the equivalent of 7 degen (burning). Combined with bleeding/poison, that's ~20 dps, which is not bad. Of course, the main problem with Seeping Wound has always been that purely degen/dps builds aren't that great - you can achieve better damage if you just rely on the normal armor-ignoring attack skill damage. A fully charged Blades of Steel would do 120+ damage, for example, equivalent to -10 degen for six seconds. However that damage occurs nearly instantly instead of over time, so under most circumstance it's more likely to kill someone. Damage over time gives healers etc. much more time to react, not even to mention if Seeping Wound/conditions get removed... Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 10:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * how would removing it from the game improve anything? -- -Ch  ao  s-   15:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh...He meant the Hex itself or the Conditions it requires in order to work. Not...from the game...where the fuck did you get that idea? 66.202.1.169 19:36, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Saying "make elite/not elite" and "remove from the game" is quite common, and they mean what they say. How do you figure that he meant anything else than the skill vanishing? =/ -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he was suggesting it be 25/90'd? Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 07:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

It's not THAT bad
Everyone hates this skill because it has little sudden damage value, but if combined with 16 crit. strikes and sharpen daggers, you can actually make a pretty good spike with it. Just make em bleed with sharpen daggers, use this, then a spammy combo on anything with low armor and it can actually serve its purpose rather well, just dont go wasting it on tanks.--The Wind Sage 23:18, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's called pressure, not spiking. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 23:22, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I like combining this skill with Black spider and Twisting fangs. Then i slap on a blades of steel combo for a solid spike. Spike+pressure = barcompaction = leet :D PM ingame if you want details.

25th update
wow.  SniperFox  12:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ~30dps, snare hex, 10 sec recharge, 5 energy.134.109.89.1 12:47, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 5sec -- Briar [[Image:User Briar Sig1.jpg|19px]] Flame Me  13:14, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks pretty usable --J0ttem™ 13:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean abusable Rhonin Soren 16:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh yea, I've been testing it at RA (srs bsns) and it's quite broken. I hope it won't take another 4 months for Anet to nerf it ~_~ --J0ttem™ 16:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

It was nerfed, but I don't know the 15 att spec. Could someone check it out? Karate  Jesus  00:31, 27 February 2010  (UTC)
 * 5dmg at 0 cs to 25dmg at 15 cs hope it helps karate :)Hitojin 00:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It does. Thanks, Hitojin. I happened to get lucky and guess it correctly :D Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  00:35, 27 February 2010  (UTC)

They made it half ranger to ner....ehem, 'balance' the skill? Hmmmmm, Deadly haste anyone? Wrei122.106.26.217 06:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Feb 26th update
Seems ok now. Still a good skill but it's in critical strikes and assassins don't really have many other options. Master Ketsu 02:45, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't HA much, do you? Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  02:58, 27 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Better ask WHO does. HA sucks. Bigtime. 86.91.68.168 20:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * LoL apparently he doesn't. The current SW build kicks ass. A high DPS from a strong chain, led by a separate, armor-ignoring DPS, complete with snare and undivided attributes. DarkNe7hUser DarkNe7h con.jpg 23:15, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Insanity?
I'm trying to understand how Crippling Anguish is "too vague" of a connection skill to mention as related. Both are elite skills. Both are hexes. Both are spells. Both cause EXACTLY 50% speed reduction. Both have identical duration-to-cost ratios at equal attribute investment. Both cause DOT. Both have attribute-linked damage scaling. Both can be maintained perpetually on a target with very minor effort and the proper attributes.

Yet, somehow, all these similarities make CA less like SW than Winter's Embrace and Binding Chains, despite WE and BC being very little like SW at all. Neither are elite skills. Neither cause 50% speed reduction. Neither have similar duration-to-cost ratios at any attribute investment. Binding chains doesn't have attribute-linked duration. Neither can be maintained perpetually on a target without a build specifically focused on perpetuating them.

Someone please explain this?''' Ba tt le Sa ge 15:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * DoT isn't exactly the same as degen. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 16:13, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, after what I said, you have no functional relations. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 16:15, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The preface that everyone that disagrees with you is insane isn't doing you any favors. It's because of the incredible DoT I'd imagine.  And no, it doesn't have equal duration/cost ratio at every attribute investment level, which shows how arbitrary duration/cost can be.  Recharge is important in determining how useful the hex can be on its own.  Seeping Wound can cause much more pressure than Crippling Anguish with less risk; if it is removed, you can quickly reapply it.


 * I'll give you that the snare part of Seeping Wound functions the same as Crippling Anguish, more or less. Aevar talk   contribs 21:06, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

So the general response is "because they're not 100% identical, they're completely unrelated". Aevar's arguments presented against CA being related to SW also completely disqualify all of the related skills listed. Chaos's argument against it boils down to a slight semantic difference that is ignored completely in most relationships established in other skill pages.(Consider Rising Bile and Putrid Bile, Deathly Chill and Shadow Strike, Flare and Ice Spear, Hamstring and Crippling Slash, Screaming Shot and Hunter's Shot...) So the one argument would completely remove all related skills for SW, and the other would remove most skill relations in general. How does that even begin to make sense? ''' Ba tt le Sa ge 04:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Skills marked as related relate on the basis of game mechanics or function, which are rather more definitive than semantics and make for more clear-cut decisions of this nature. All of your aforementioned skills will attest to this, as will the skills related to Seeping Wound, as they provide both DoT and a snare in Hex form. --Oiseau 04:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Anet's shining example of balanced skills
Does any assassin run any other skill in HA? This is crying out for a nerf, or at least a reminder that assassins dont only have to use one elite skill for a given form of gameplay. Oh wait Rolain1 09:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Assassins suck so hard that that's all we'll ever see with them. Morphy 11:28, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh..it really isn't as bad as people are saying it is. Its a spammable hex that needs bleeding to work, and cant be kept up indefinitely without other skills.  And the best part is it can't be abused by other primaries.  Arcdash 23:01, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It does not "Need" bleeding to work. Any condition is fine. In fact, Crippled with Black Mantis Thrust is the most played option. Have you played PvP lately? As a snare hex and an armor-ignoring damage skill, it is far from "alright". Sincerely, SylvXIII 05:35, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Any number of things could make this balanced. Increased recharge, removal of the 50% movement reduction, Increased casting time, or even increased energy cost.  This skill is even worse than Palm Strike used to be in terms of brokenness, because you could at least dshot that.  Then again, it's all assassins really have since they require elite skill brokenness to compensate for their utter failure at everything else.  PowerGamer 21:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody cares about dead game not even devs. GW was balanced before, not any more.--61.219.36.133 11:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Update
Anyone's still going to run it? SylvXIII 00:49, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't even touch this in PVE now. My heros drop HM monsters too fast for this to be even 50% effective-dmgwise, and for 15e? harsh. At least increase it back to full cast range, reduce to 10e or reduce dmg for pvp. Sin's attack chains are already costly as it is.110.175.241.56 02:57, 22 May 2010 (UTC)Wrei
 * eh, maybe on the spear sin, they can probably handle the erngy 68.93.109.105 02:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You may want to remind that spear SWs have many crit buffs to increase energy efficiency. Trust me. Shadow Form Slayer 07:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Way to go and make this skill basically useless again
 * Did they have to ruin it for PvE too? 66.41.41.227 05:35, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Blame Dailite... People stole his builds and then it got nerfed 99.14.140.108 23:43 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * DIE TURTLE DIE --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.37.205.141 (talk &bull; contribs) at 18:08, 7 May 2011 (UTC).

Suggestion
this skill should be as this:

5e 1 casting time 15 rec

hex spell.deals 1...6 damage each second(1...15) for each condition on target foe. Ends if target foe gains 1..3 conditions or is hexed. end effect: target foe is crippled 1..15 seconds.