Talk:Skeleton of Dhuum

Should it be noted that they are in Underworld without the quests being active? 000.00.00.00 21:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes 83.90.164.177 21:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

SHADOW FORM
Is there any information about how long will these reisde in uw? I mean is it possible that they will still remain after the event and effectively prevent people SF farming the underworld?


 * No info on that yet 83.90.164.177 21:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They've been talking about taking care of SF farming for quite a while. It wouldn't surprise me if these things are permanent.--Pyron Sy 21:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If they nerf Shadow Form, I'll be mad. This is because perma SF is the only farming build that I can make a lot of money out of.--Dark Paladin X 22:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Farming is always at best only proportionnal to time you spend to farm. You will find other way to farm ectos, less effective, but ectos will be worth more. Even if uwsc get a bit nerfed, Shadow Form itself is far from being nerfed, see every dungeon solo or SC/sinways...
 * And afterall, More foes to kill = more fun... Elephant 22:43, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that the sole purpose of the halloween questline was the introduction of a clever little nerf for speed clear groups, but i have found it possible, although hard to defeat skeletons with the perma sliver form build....as long as there are enough enemies around to fuel sliver armor's damage output, they can be killed in a matter of seconds. The main problem is that there are skeletons in places where you can't gather enough enemies around to kill them before they slay you. I hope they are just a temporary addition to uw, since it would't really make any sense to nerf it...uw speed clearing is not nearly as popular as it used to be. Sometimes i think Anet is purposefully trying to scare players away from gw....they must think that more people will buy gw2 if they make the prequel unplayable. They began with killing doa, (although i agree that ursanway was a gimmick, at least there was a reason for people to group, and play DOA), and now they are planning to take away one of the few money making possibilities left. If i think about it better, the only people for whom this change is good, are the ones who were farming ectos non-stop from the time uw was introduced...they have thousands of ectos now, and they can sell them for three times the previous price. Players who have just started to discover the possibilities of uw farming (such as myself) are placed in a disadvantage yet again.(84.0.109.73 12:56, 31 October 2009 (UTC))
 * I personally believe they are a permanent addition. Linsey has said for months she wants to change the area to eliminate speed clears. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  13:02, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is likely that they are permanent,the problem comes from the fact that it not only eliminates speed clears, but virtually ANY solo farming build that is used in uw nowadays. Well, ok it might courage people to actually try to do uw runs in balanced groups of 8, but the chances of finding enough people to do a balanced run are virtually nonexistent.Only people in elite guilds have the experience, and enough players to do it regularly.(oh i forgot to mention...pick up groups in uw are destined to fail at the first mob) So i think all this change does is "elitizing" UW.This change would have had sense around a year and a half ago, when there were still enough players to group up and do UW/FOW.Nuff said, this change is the worst thing that can happen to an already dying economy
 * "Sometimes i think Anet is purposefully trying to scare players away from gw" - Arenanet is correcting mistakes that should have done before they let things, like UWSC and abusive farming in generally, grab hold of the community. Everyone knew the SCs are just too abusive.  Arenanet is highly criticized for the slowness it has at addressing issues, should they have done this kind of thing months ago it wouldn't have been so bad, but now there are entire guilds, hundreds and hundreds (of not thousands) of people linked to UWSC and Perma-Sin farming in UW who get shoved out, though most of them need to wake up and smell the coffee: this was inevitable and they should have been prepared for this.  000.00.00.00  19:08, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, i agree that there are too many people who are linked with sf and uwsc, but as i said before, the main problem is(as i said before) that the player base has been decimated to a level where there is EXTREMELY hard, if not impossible to find balanced groups to do uw the regular way. Maybe after this change people will be forced to do so, if they want ectos, but i think that the vast majority of players are too lazy to try out anything that requires even the slightest amount of teamwork, so uw will basically die, even if Anet-s actions were (and i agree with that, though i am not necessarily happy) completely justified. The best thing we can hope for is that the long term effects of this change will outhweigh the initial difficulties surrounding it (as it is with every economic change, be it Real life, or not)(145.236.87.188 21:00, 31 October 2009 (UTC))
 * I don't know why people think the only two ways to do UW is in UWSC or a full balanced team of 8 players. Or did ANet take heroes out of PvE as well? -76.114.80.153 22:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, they didn't but doing a full run with only heroes, and 2players can be a little tricky for players who have never done a balanced run bfore
 * "....if not impossible to find balanced groups to do uw the regular way...." Complete and utter crap. 000.00.00.00 23:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Though I haven't necessarily agreed with everything that you've said, I always tried to respect yours and others opinions as well."Complete and utter crap" Is not a very nice way to disagree with an opinion, especially since you haven't justified it with reasons.I still think that it is hard to find balanced groups for uw(and the reason is partially that people are too attached to uwsc to try anything else)
 * Frankly ill be happy when they nerf Sf,Because i remember in a newletter around 5 years ago GW said there will be no 'Invinsible' mode.,Frankly,I HOPE SF get nerfed,my Tank Warrior has been gathering so much dust its ridiculouse.-- Neil2250 User Neil2250 sig icon.jpg 19:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Mr. Unsigned IP 84, the UW is called an elite area for a reason. 76.164.52.186 22:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)GAH!! <that comment was mine Haru 22:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it is called elite for a reason, and i don't actually care for the future of uwsc, because although i do SF in doa sometimes, i never did it. I see the usefulness of this NERF/BUFF (whatever you want to call it) But there is, as i said before an obvious side effect. People who have been doing uwsc since its invention probably have thousands of ectos in their storage by now, and cuz ectos became harder to farm, they can sell it for more money than before..So in my point of view, Anet actually rewarded those who have been abusing Shafow form in uw.At least in the short term(84.0.222.168 08:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC))

According to a post made today by Linsey: "We are not completely opposed to "nerfing" SF. Once we have the Test Krewe in place, we can think about trying some stuff out." --Silver Edge 09:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely agree with 84. Anet is/was always very slow at reacting to abuse. They didn't come with an answer for SF yet, just a patch onto the gigantic hole in the GW economy hull. Not even talking about the fact that SF still destroy tanking class. M3G [[Image:User_M3G_Pumpkin.png‎| 19px | ]] 10:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

WELL THE THING IS THIS Players have been farming UW and FOW with the use of Perma sins for a long time, dont forget about many other places. When you do a UWSC you have to have a party of 8 players to do so which makes a full team. It takes every one of those players to do their part to complete the task so therefore my belief is why nerf the team build instead they could have added another quest or 2 if they wanted to be creative which would have made it more difficult for sinway and as well even more fun for those players and everyone else that liked balanced teams. Just because players were smart enough to make a SC team doesnt mean that perma sins should have been completely attacked in this update. I agree with the fact that finding a team build to do UW at this time is very difficult and not very fun to fail over and over because of too many unexperienced players. And another note, if Anet/GW wants to perform this way in a game I was enjoying being newly introduced into UWSC why would I want to get into a longterm playable game with them for their new title coming to just have my game changed when I just start doing and enjoying what others have done for years. I have right now 8 ectos, that is it because I have spent many ectos in trade for consets trying to learn the areas feeding the economy for other farmers of other classes in other areas of the game. Now I may not be buying those and dropping those farmers economic revenue. In short.,...,. BAD MOVE A-NET.
 * (Sign your comments with four tildes. [~]) I can't say I've done UWSC, but from the sound of things perma sins were practically the only thing involved in it. This is bad for a game in which variety in play styles and skillsets is encouraged. This is bad in any game where balanced teams are encouraged. It's as simple as that, in my opinion. It looks like we're entering an entire Dhuum-based event arc, so who's to say they won't be removed again somewhere along the line anyway? --Kyoshi 05:04, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If only one class/build able to do UW alone is bad for a game where variety in play styles is encouraged then no class/build able to do it is even worse in that sense. Instead they should make more classes/builds able to do it. As for the encouragement of the balanced teams, as it was stated many times, these days it is impractical to try to gather a balanced team capable of beating even the first mobs, unless you are in some very elite guild. IMO what they should do in this direction is to lower the "eliteness" of the UW thus making it more accessible to larger percentage of the players and so pick-up (that is non-elite) teams to have a chance of accomplishing anything in UW. What they have done is essentially cutting the UW off the game for all but the most elite guilds. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.70.56.64 (talk).

Ecto's
This is stupid... ecto's allready topped to 6k, this will make them skyrocket even more :( Not just perma's have trouble now, normal parties also get wiped because of them. This used to be a fun area to come... Is this the end of Underworld?? KILL MementoMori 22:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * you must be new here - FireFox [[Image:User_FireFox_av.png]] 22:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Seconded. Maybe I will take interest in your post when ecto's are back at 15k each. But then again, maybe I won't. -- Arduin [[Image:User_Arduin_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 22:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm loving these things. Slowly going through with my rit, already popped a few of these things and every 3 guys gives me an ecto >:)  ^_^  Additionally, this has no impact on my fun down in UW, so if ecto prices skyrocket ... sweeeeet.   000.00.00.00  22:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 46 ectos burning in my bags farmed during the UWSC era. Anti-SFers lose! Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * One of these dropped an ecto for me :) -- smøni  05:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * For any potential nonbelievers out there. Brother got it while farming skele-stones in UW.
 * [[File:User JonnieBoi05 Brother getting ecto.jpg]]
 * ~Jason Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 06:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought they banned all of his accounts -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 23:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey look, Lena's back.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 02:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The Underworld has not been fun since the birth of SC. SC is not about having fun it is about getting to the end chest. The reason that well decent well-rounded teams are hard to find is not because of the time or difficulty of the area, it is because things like Shadow Form and Ursan Blessing have caused skilled players to lose interest and leave; and it has made median level players so jaded, incompetent  and lazy that they are incapable of doing anything. Lower Level players will reap the greatest benefit from this because there will be less elitists and haughty people chasing them out of TOA just because they are looking for a group of people that actually play the game rather than exploit it.70.188.168.127 23:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

--- If it makes any difference to anyone, after farming these for about a week, just them and nothing else in the UW, not taking into account Anets godawful BS anti-loot code, they seem to drop ecto an average 1/5 (out of 50 I killed) which seems to indicate they may have the highest ecto drop rate of any mob in the UW, possibly around 15-20%. -Kerrigor
 * Countering a speed run nerf with an increased drop of ecto... that is interesting MrPaladin  &dagger;  talk 17:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no way Anet would make the drop rate 15%, are you serious? I've killed hundreds and got maybe 5 ectos from them. Same as everything else. Are you really suggesting that it took a week to kill 50 and you got 10 ecto? And, that that was enough testing to determine the actual drop rate? Pfffft. 120.158.229.65 16:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Did you know?
Skeletons in videogames are sort of illegal in China. Check this out. This won't effect on Chinese players of Guild Wars, right? Since the Chinese accounts belong to US nowdays. - J.P.  Talk  22:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What hasn't China banned yet? I'm not savvy with the law so I don't really know. But the accounts/game is in America but you play from China. I already heard they're blocking a lot of sites with their lawbreaking content eh.. I'm confusing myself here. Basically, does the law apply to accessing things outside China from within? [[Image:User Karuro Icon.png]] Karuro 01:09, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah they have special skill icons for the one's with skeletons in them, kinda surprised when I first saw how natural these look compared to the old undead skins. Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 01:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They ban skeletons from video games but it's ok to send dead chinese (pregnant) prisoners (with fetus) to public exhibits in New York? Hmmm... Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:08, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a taboo, just like in the US it has become rude to call people of various races anything but  American, yet at the same time it's fine invading Islamic countries in an almost crusade like fashion. Razor39999 15:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This can't really effect Chinese players because there's already is a whole set of Skeletons in the undead category of the game. An extra skeleton in an optional portion of the game really shouldn't make a difference. (marsc 19:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC))
 * A better question is who gives a shit about China?
 * Your intelligence, wit, and kindness is staggering. | 72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 23:08, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

New model?
I don't think I've seen any other monster with this very skin, so this might indicate that the Live team has resources to create new monsters. Maybe this will be the skin they'll use for Dhuum, if we ever face him -- Beren (Talk | contribs) 00:34, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Either it's a new one or they could have used this model as a basis for the new creature. Jaxom 01:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

What it drops
Is half of that necessary? Especially the trick-or-treat bags. 000.00.00.00 02:32, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Removed ToT bags. I'm unsure about the rest of it, so i'll leave it for now. 69.249.223.63 02:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The section should conform to what the Formatting guide says. --Rainith 04:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I have seen on a few other pages where people are claiming they got purple Crystalines from these guys. Can we confirm this is just rumors people or starting or do they actually drop them? Personally I think its just people trying to start stuff, and the general crowd that messed people up with the celestial compass. lol.. Dogs.Just wondering if we could get a lil research on it. Im gonna farm it some later tonight and see what I can get for drops. Hungryarmadillo 14:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Judgement Day
Nov. 3rd, when Halloween is over. Thats when we will know. (This will only nerf 55, 600, and Perma Farming in the UW, Normal teams shouldn't be bothered much by these). --68.115.108.135 04:56, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually 600ing, they aren't that big of a deal if u don't suck-55ing is pwnt tho71.74.235.30 05:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Has anyone tested if W/Rt is nerfed? ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 06:48, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I've tried, all warrior builds for farming Smite Crawlers still work since you don't even get near those skeletons anyway. The Grasping Darkness spawns they've added could get you stuck or literally run out of energy tho...84.197.181.198 15:53, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Judgement Day? Don't you actually mean... DHUUMSDAY? Sorry, I couldn't resist! --99.157.205.57 09:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a joke, you dolts! LAUGH NOW, OR DIE! -- Hong 14:16, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * /laugh Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * /laugh (Bladecutter 16:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC))

Sapphires
One just dropped a sapphire for me, I don't feel like uploading a screen but I will if it's contested.
 * might be a good idea to show an SS just so noone could say your lying, also you need to sign your comments with four ~ Simzy '' User Truesimzy mysig.jpg 05:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything that drops crafting materials can drop sapphires.--Pyron Sy 05:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just utterly wrong to moon and back. 128.176.178.20 12:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I had a sapphire drop from one of these to. Never though to screenie it though. Oops. [[image:User_Lyger_SignatureText.png‎|User_Lyger_SignatureText.png‎]] yger talk 13:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sapphires and rubies have dropped from UW creatures for years, it's just an incredibly slim chance of it happening. -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 21:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * [[File:User Silven Gw028.jpg]] So it SHOULD drop sapphires (I'm so happy that I got a ruby drop ^^)--Silven 01:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As said above Rubies have dropped in the UW for years too but gz! :) -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 08:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Skill activation times.
Just a heads up. Their skill activation time is incorrect. For Bone Spike and Flurry of Splinters it states the activation time is 1 second and 2 seconds, respectively. Well, I can interupt 3/4 spells like there is no tomorrow (in case that analogy is uncomprehendable-- I can interupt 3/4 spells at-will) and I guarantee their activation time is 1/2 for the former and 1 second for the later. Should we put a note? I've done a looooot of killing with my brother and his gf and they agree that their stated activation times are incorrect. ~Jason Bacon   talk 09:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Like most (all?) attack skills, the actual attack activates halfway through the stated activation time, and the rest is the afterswing, so to speak. These are just unusual since they have longer times and so seem like they ought to be easy to /rupt. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:22, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So you're saying the skills activated at HALF time in reality? That seems untrue because I never have a problem interupting anything else (other than the .5 and below activation spell/skills). ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 10:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh by the way. We're farming in Normal Mode before anyone asks if we're in Hard Mode. :) ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 10:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * For Bow Attacks (I don't know about others) that have activation times, the arrow is fired halfway through the activation. The remainder of the activation is the arrow reaching the target (at about shortbow range on level ground, iirc) and if you hit the Ranger firing it after the halfway point of the skill, the arrow will continue but the Ranger's attack pattern will be stopped for a short time. Fire off a Power Shot and see for yourself. --70.158.147.116 00:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking at that again, I think I explained it badly, but the general idea is that Bow Attacks with an activation time are released from the bow in half the time stated, and that's what the Skeleton's skills are. --70.158.147.116 00:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Doh! Silly me! I am quite aware of bow activation times being "half cast" for leaving their bow. I guess I failed to consider to take these attacks into consideration as "bow attacks" (even though they cleary say they are <_<). /facepalm. Anyways! Thanks for bringing this simple yet important detail up and bringing me forth to "the light". ;D All-in-all... Problem solved! xD ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 04:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Location
I started researching locations of the SoDs as I thought it would be good to document it for the quests...but I gave up, so these aren't all the locations. Add on if you feel like it...but then again if they are permanent, then it's kind of obsolete because no (?) other basic enemies has a locations map. ~Celestia 16:34, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * (Normal Mode observation): I was in Vale taking out the Grasping Darknesses that now pop up.  I killed the first set and the Tortured Spirits spawned, now I'm not sure if the Skeletons are linked to that or are another pop-up, however, just as soon as the Spirits appeared they did too and systemically wiped out as many of the Spirit as they could.  The spawn was only two Skeletons but it was enough to A) scare the crap out of me, 2) Give the Spirits sweet-sweet-double-death and D) make me wonder if they're popups or linked to the spawned Spirits.  000.00.00.00  19:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * After doing about 15 hours worth of farming (~350+ stones >_<) I pretty much have every spawn location of these damn things memorized. Anyways, I have updated your picture accordingly. Enjoy.  ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 20:22, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, uhm. Minor note: out in the frozen waste area where you see the 2 SoDs close to eachother. Well, where that random Smite group to the right of them in the corner next to the big uprised popsicle thing is I have observed an SoD spawn there once and only once so I did not include it on the map since it only seemed to have spawned once in 489532897 runs. ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 20:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There is another in vale, another in pools, 5 more in the mountains area, one of the groups of three in chamber is incorrect(there's only 1 there), there is another group of three in the lab area that isn't on there. There are 6 more skeleton popups when the terrorweb queen quest is taken. 76.103.242.232 20:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Mine is based on farming the entire UW as-is and not by taking the quests. And yes, I know I forgot the 3 by the cliff passed the labrinth reaper. I have fixed it. And no, there is a group of 3 passed the bridge after the chamber. I can supply screens later when I get a chance if you want them. ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 21:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The group i'm talking about is in what appears to be in the initial chamber area. If you follow the arrow from the green you-are-here thing, there is a single one and then a group of three. I don't think there is a group of three there. Btw, all of those but the pools ones were with no quests. 76.103.242.232 21:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

You mean the cliff by the door with the aatxe that goes up and down the stairs? There are 3 there. One that patrols back and forth by the door and the other 2 and then the other 2 that stay by the dead end that gives you a view off the cliff. ~Jason Bacon   talk 21:23, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhh, ok, between you and the lab monument, in a straight line, there is a group of 1 and a group of 3. Afaik, there is no group of 3. There should just be a lone skeleton there. 76.103.242.232 21:32, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OOOOH! I see what you mean now. Hmm, I think I accidentally put the group of 3 twice. I see it now. Ha. Thanks! Let me go fix that. :D  ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 21:40, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that better? ~Jason  Bacon  [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 21:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. In addition to that, there is one between pools monument and where the queen spawns, there is one in the area beyond the monument in vale, there is one in the area where the mindblades would usually pop for escort, and, near the very south part of mountains, there is a big mostly clear area. Kinda hard to explain without something to point at for you, but there is a group of three there. 76.103.242.232 21:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much 000.00.00.00, Jonnieboi05, and 76.103.242.232 for contributing! I re-uploaded the most recent map under File:Skeleton of Dhuum locations.jpg File:Skeleton of Dhuum map.jpg. I too wanted to 'farm' them, but got bored after two runs :P. But now, thanks to you lot, we know where most of them (hopefully they are fixed spawns) are. I was sure I saw a 2nd in the Labyrinth, but he disappeared....Actually I swear many of them just "disappear"! ~Celestia 02:27, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They seem to disappear because many of them have a very large patrol route :o. I believe, without quests, that there is a total of 43 skeletons throughout the uw. An additional 6 spawn in pools when terrorweb queen is taken. Oh, and the one you might be thinking of is in between the pillars on the way to vale(currently not on the map). 76.103.242.232 02:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think some of the Spawns are random, or they have massive wander packages, or I just killed one without noticing. I went down earlier, got to the Wastes and only came across two Skeletons, second time there were 4.  I'll test more tomorrow and take some screenies of what shows up.  Oh, and there's definately one that's in the Laby between the 4 supports.   000.00.00.00  05:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Skeletons spawning in Groups of 3 sometimes spawn in groups of 2 so it makes no sense to mark them as 3 on the map... Asuka 15:08, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * atleast you get the general idea, there's even 4 spawns. Cracko 17:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have so far encountered two Skeletons in the Pools region. The exact number at each spawn point seems to vary slightly.   <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  08:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Added a way to kill them.
Their skills do not hit you when they're obstructed by walls or other things. I went into the Underworld with my assassin, using the regular UWSC Chambersin build. I first killed 3 Aatxes without agroing the Skeleton. Then I pulled the Skeleton so that there was a wall between him and me. Ether Nightmare and Cry of Pain killed him, while Spirit of Failure kept my energy high. --Arno Sluismans November 1, 2009; 0:35 AM, GMT+1.
 * A good way to kill them is by first luring the surrounding mobs away, and killing them. orly? 76.103.242.232 23:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * An even easier way to kill them is to put 12 (Or, if you're a nec, 16) in curses, lure the one skeleton that is closest to the entrance from the wall without aggro'ing the aatxes (It can be done, this is how I got my first quest done) and cast price of failure on it while laughing. Probably the most inefficent way of killing these as a basic sliver build with DC can kill the 3 that aren't grouped in the first area of chamber in <3 minutes, but meh. Dakiller 01:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it hasn't changed 55'ing much at all solo. Just don't get hit. 55'ing's as dead as the last time it was declared dead. 68.229.144.130

600/Smite duo pwns them, even aggroed with Aatxes and Graspings. Farmed over 300 filled Mobstoppers in two days, each Chamber run taking less than 8 minutes (6 skeles). Who said Permasins must be good for farming everything? :P ZeeWolf 07:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Could anyone tell me which Asura summon or EVAS works best against this guys? Which one kills them quickest? 87.208.166.90 01:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

--The easiest way to kill these is to use a ROJ monk, drop ROJ(Ray of Judgement) on them, followed by bane signet to prevent escape, and use other holy damage to finish them. they are skeletons, and take double holy damage.

Trivia
They only have 4 toes. --<font color="#FFC125">King Of Kamelott  14:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * wat Cracko 17:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * False, they have 8. -- Arduin [[Image:User_Arduin_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 19:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * lol Elephant 23:46, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Geez
I tried to farm smites with my derv but these skeletons make decent farming impossible, if they are perma then most UW farm builds are screwed, not only SF, good job Anet grrmbl Tyraelxy 22:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Gone
Well, they were fun. It was nice seeing actual teams forming, bar the usual UWSC PRO ONLY NO FAIL BS that was primary to ToA... oh well. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00 08:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Are they really gone? I just checked and I still can get the quest, so they should be still there, or not? poke | talk 08:24, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I can still get the quest, but when I go down they're a no show. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  08:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks - that's a bit weird though :P Wonder if that is an error.. poke | talk 08:29, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They'll probably be put back in after the quest giver is removed. They can't have you farming a Halloween quest after it's over.  Before it's asked, the steward is still there for people to hand in the skeletons they had caught before the end of the event.  24.197.253.243 08:42, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Wtf was the point in these as well as that really short lived MoR nerf? Are these to show that anet can nerf these over used farm builds but ultimately won't?  -- smøni  20:51, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Historical Content?
Since these were removed from game, I'ma go ahead and put a Historical content in there to clarify. Feel free to remove it if it's still too early for the HC tag yet. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Dakiller (talk).
 * I would have read the above section if i were you :P - <font color="Orange">J.P. [[Image:User J.P. Halloween sig.png| ]] <font color="Orange">Talk  13:48, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? Most likely they will be back next year. You could as well classify Mad King Thorn as historical content, then. - Arno Sluismans 21:18, 2 November 2009 (GMT+1)
 * I don't think so. I remember reading something like "New halloween quests THIS YEAR ONLY" on Anet's site. I guess these quests won't be back next year.
 * The quests, yes, but the assets associated with it, ie the skeletons, may very well be recycled for new quests later. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  20:48, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm quite positive that there will be other quests, most likely involving the Underworld. Well, one way or the other, I still don't think event related pages should be classified as Historical Content. The Mursaat-in-town-day isn't historical content either, however it was a one time happening. -- Arno Sluismans 22:32, 2 November 2009 (GMT+1)

They've been added back to UW. Too lazy to post screens. Here comes the perma tears!
 * They're back baby ^_^ <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  00:59, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I knew they weren't that stupid to remove them :D - <font color="#000;">J.P. [[File:User J.P. sigicon.png]] <font color="#000;">Talk  01:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

FFS ANet!
Argh, UW Nerf.... Just Today they hgad to f**k ut, it was well, with them NOT in UW.... argh ANet ><-Haunted Shadow 01:11, 3 November 2009 (UTC)Haunted Shadow
 * Maybe you should just learn to play with them? Only the worst SFs die to skeles with cons on.--Silven 07:43, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Note
Is it necessary to say "It was believed..." when it's pretty much considered fact by most players that that's why they added them with specific skills meant to take out Shadow Form? Taros 01:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just naturally cautious. If you believe it's unnecessary hedging, feel free to take it out. -- Hong 01:48, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * give me the source they said they changed it to kill UWSC and then you can change it around. Cracko 01:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Because ANet's intentions are not necessarily equal to what the players believe? --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 01:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So they just happened to add monsters with a skill that "penetrates all defenses" with no intention of affecting UWSC? How convenient... Taros 01:59, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that they put these in to affect UWSCers, however i dont have evidence to back it up. Cracko 02:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh and for proof, though I can't find it right now, check what Wyn said in the first section, how Linsey has been wanting to change the area to eliminate speed clears. Taros 02:02, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but unless ANet has said they put them in there to make it harder for UWSC, we're just gonna have to live with this note. Cracko 02:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I know it can't be changed because of that, but it's still going to bother me =/ Taros 02:05, 3 November 2009
 * (Jesus Christ) "Anet put these into the game to counter shadow form because most of the players believe they put them in for that reason." It's circular. Granted, it wouldn't be worded like that, but that is essentially why you would be editing that section. Oh, and you should be able to cite where linsey said that, bonus points if you can (later?) cite where she said these were put in to destroy UWSC. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 02:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)(UTC)

I can't find where she did, and the best I can find is a youtube video that I'm not sure how to link. So I'm just going to take Wyn's word for it. No bonus points =/ Taros 03:11, 3 November 2009 (UTC) This is one quote I was able to find quickly, though I know I've seen it elsewhere more recently as well. I will continue to look for it. -- Wyn  talk  03:32, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "I prefer to address their ability to farm Chaos Plains directly rather than continue to hit the skill and hurt all the other farming builds. ~Linsey Murdock here"
 * Bonus points for Wyn ^_^ Taros 03:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I know it doesn't specifically say I want to nerf UWSC her intention seems fairly clear, she wants to make changes to the areas where perma SF is being abused mercilessly rather than eliminating ALL SF farming by nerfing the skill directly. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  03:54, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I was meaning more along the lines that Skeletons of Dhuum were put in specifically to nerf UWSC, rather than just blanket nerf most farming. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 03:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmed. The Skeletons are targeting farmers in UW. Solo and Speed Clear. - [[Image:User Linsey Murdock sig.jpg]]Linsey talk 04:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I can still solo. :3  Is there going to be any continuation to this story though?  It seemed like we were just getting started, what with the whole "oh GAWD doom is waking up run guise" thing, and then... nothing.  Is Dhuum Primordus or one of his bros?  I sure hope not.  I kind of hope he's a gigantic insect.  All his little buddies look like bugs of some kind.  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably, as of: "The Mad King's Steward, you may have noticed, also disappeared. This disappearance was related to the skeleton issue, but the Steward won't return till tomorrow." http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback_talk:Regina_Buenaobra#skeletons_of_dhuum_gone Cracko 12:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well there are Dhuum related skills, such as Curse of Dhuum and Judgment of Dhuum, which makes it sound like we will have a direct confrontation with him at somepoint. -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 15:17, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Where? Did you dig around in the dat or whatever?  :o  What do they say?  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 19:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They say Dhuum does cool stuff. Taros 23:42, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * added wiki links to previous post, hope it helps. :) -- Salome   [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 00:18, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

ANET WINS! FATALITY!
I just have to say, for once, ANet does something right. The QQing of pre-pubescent ninja fanboys is like the sweetest music to my ears. They can still use Sadpanda Form, but they can't use it exploit UW. WATCH OUT, THE WEAK LITTLE SKELETONS THAT ARE EASY TO FARM WILL GET YOU! If anybody needs me, I'll be selling Tears of the PermaNoob for 5k each in LA. 99.140.220.227 03:35, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I must say, I'm impressed. +50. -- User Halogod35 Sig.png Halogod35  03:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, uwsc is only nerfed for pugs. People who have half an ounce of skill can still do uw just fine. 76.103.242.232 03:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Half an ounce, eh? That should cut the groups by about 98% then.Erring Ryft 04:07, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * +1 Erring, -1 ANet for creating new resources instead of, y'know, nerfing the problem. I hope they put these in the FoW soon.  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You are correct Erring. UWSC for pugs is dead. However, the 2% of players that are in a decent guild can still do uw just fine. @Jette, Anet accomplished their goal with these skeletons. However, fow hasn't really been a problem with speed clears. Sure, it's being done much faster than anet anticipated at the release of guildwars, but, it's still done with a mostly full team. A 6-2 split is much more reasonable than 7 sins running off in random directions and soloing shit. 76.103.242.232 04:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I still think permanent immunity to everything is a bad mechanic. –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 05:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely agree with Jette, they added few monsters that have skills which go through SF but they didn't address the main problem : SF invincibility. It kills all tanks classes. 194.2.20.67 08:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Could it be possible to have a sc style like FoW? 2 sins clear any areas that aren't inundated by skeletons, while a main team clears the rest. According to the picture above, the pools and smites don't have many skeletons.--Bleded Scythe 10:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I believe perma-Shadow in its current form (roughly) arose back in a May 2008 update. This means that it took Anet well over an entire year to put the kibosh on perma-solo and SC abuse -- all while still not addressing the fundamental problem, as Jette noted. This is quite reminiscent of the Ursan debacle, which also took well over a year to tone down. While I concur wholeheartedly that the addition of the skeletons is a good thing, why does it take so long for Anet to act on such serious and universally identified imbalances/abuses in the game? The same way it took two and a half years to implement dishonor? Color me baffled. --99.60.230.83 14:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's because we have all been gazing at your colour and wondering what the light frequency is. My money, personally, is on 'Baffled' falling at 662.7 nanometers.
 * No, but--yeah. You can't force a demon like Dhuum outta his cage before he's ready. You ever seen one of those things bite? | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg {U|T|C} 14:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if next year's Halloween will have similar quests(Every Bit Helps all over again?) due to anet spending too much time on GW2(which may be a good thing instead.)[[Image:User BaineTheBotter Icon notify before deletion.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  14:51, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * These quests won't return, but the concept might. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk </b> 15:29, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I bet it's because it's not actually as serious as everyone likes to make it seem. It boiled down to "Oh no, my ectos are only 4k each" and "Oh no, pugs don't want to play a balanced build with me."  Also 99.140, I would suggest not making sweeping insults about everyone's maturity.  Reflect on your comment to figure out why.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Fine with UWSC nerf, but total?
Shadow Form has of course been overused in Underworld for sc and stuff, but other types of farming are now basically gone. 55 farmers that go old farming ways can't farm, 305 or 350 something eles and rits can't farm, and those solo waste can't either. I just hoping they find some way to nerf particular builds not all of them, right now, no-one's forming anything for UW because of it. Best thing I would think is just end the charade and nerf shadow form...keep UW and FoW how it is and plain nerf it, people have been waiting for it.
 * There's still several solo builds that work in UW. People managed to clear UW before Factions came out, and they can do so again. If some don't want to enter UW because speed clears take longer or are harder, all the better for those that form traditional 8 person groups. <font color="#008800">Manifold 20:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Solo still works fine; I have done it quite a few times with my ele (not 305/350 gimmick or whatever). In normal mode, at least, the Skeletons of Dhuum break aggro very easily, even without a run skill; for instance, turn around 180 degrees, and they will simply break off. To make matters further simpler, there's no "domino effect" of aggroing nearby enemies whenever you aggro a skeleton: they're their own mobs. All you have to do is learn the new Skeletons' (very long) patrol routes, and learn the safe spots to stand when tanking/killing smites, which are still roughly the same as before. It's somewhat more difficult than before, sure -- but nothing that can't be overcome with skill and experience. That said, I do believe the core of the problem lies with the idea of permanent invincibility as a gameplay mechanic. --99.60.230.83 21:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * And yet the only thing you can do with SF is farm greens or Raptors. How about we look at 600/smite next?  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "the only thing you can do with invincibility is farm greens or raptors"


 * Hahaha, oh wow. –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:38, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ^Intelligent response with a well thought out rebuttal including proof. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 18:12, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Just wanna say
Anet made Underworld so people could team up and do quest 1 by 1,NOT for 1 team to split into 6 groups and run off.Therefor,i LOVE the new BUFF to uw!

Also,anet im waiting for the SF nerf,so dont keep me waiting ;P-- <font color="#660066" size="3px">Neil2250  19:15, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Say that in 3 weeks when UW is empty. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">19:17, 3 November 2009  (UTC)
 * Linsey has said for a while now that she would rather just change the zones than Shadow Form. This is the Shadow Form nerf to Underworld.  <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  19:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wish they would nerf Shadowform or the other skills that allow permasin. Perpetual, unstoppable invincibility is not a good game mechanic.  All this does is drive the sins to EotN Dungeons to farm in all-sin groups.  Everyone, game-wide, shouldn't have to run the same sin-only group with a gimmicky invincibility build just to play the game.  The fact that Anet can't seem to comprehend that permanent invincibility is a BAD THING has made me more and more weary about getting Guildwars2 when it eventually comes out.  If all I have to look forward to is Anet turning a blind eye for months to a single outpost filled with "Charr W/Mo, rank 9+, gimmick build only!" for a specific dungeon/elite area while the rest of the game is empty (making it no different than GW1), what's the point? 65.207.54.194 20:12, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * it seems like alot more work to nerf individual areas (create new enemies/skills), when they could just revert shadow form back to its non-buffed version. people still used it when it wasnt able to have 100% uptime u know. -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 20:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Gimmick is unavoidable, sadly. Arenanet needs to become more active when it comes to stemming the tide of gimmicks, like UWSC, letting them grab hold of the community like they have does absolutely nothing positive.  Same could be said with Ursan.  Everyone knew Ursan, like UWSC, was just taking things too far, no reasonable person can say it didn't, but Arenanet just don't see 'balance', whether it be by skill or just mechanic and gameplay, as a viable thing to truly invest time and effort into.  A mad-dash, months too late, is more their style and they are heavily criticised for that, but it's an on-going thing they just aren't addressing.  <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  20:28, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Amen to that, though my theory (totally unsubstantiated) was always that Anet simply replaced one gimmick with another: It was their way of extending the olive branch to all the soon-to-be-bereft Ursan users by allowing perma-Shadow as a viable farming option instead. If I remember correctly, the Shadow Form boost predated the Ursan nerf by only a couple of months or so.--99.60.230.83 21:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "but Arenanet just don't see 'balance', whether it be by skill or just mechanic and gameplay, as a viable thing to truly invest time and effort into. A mad-dash, months too late, is more their style" I truly, honestly agree.  And it makes me sad.  Are other Anet games this poorly balanced?  I'd like to think part of the problem is that they are just oh-so-busy with GW2 that they neglect GW1 and therefore GW2 will be different... but if this sort of negligence is symptomatic with all of Anet's games then I'm even further disinclined to give GW2 a chance.65.207.54.194 21:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It may not be so much that they are negligent, but that they are a) too slow at identifying that a problem exists, and b) too keen to avoid alienating the very user base which exploits that imbalance. Say what you will about imbalances, but a huge percentage of users-- perhaps even a majority!-- love them and grow extremely frustrated with Anet when they're finally snatched away. I know for a fact that a large number of my guild members swore off Guild Wars altogether after the Ursan hammer, even though I railed against the evils of the bear nonstop (probably to their chagrin). I hardly think my guild was the only exception.
 * We can spout diatribes all we want about balances and imbalances, but the crux of the issue lies at nipping these problems in the bud before they become endemic. I hate to use this analogy, but it's akin to substance abuse; snatch away the drugs from drug users, and they are sure to get upset. Hence, you can't let these sorts of clear imbalances settle in to the point that a huge user base becomes comfortable with exploiting it. Just as most drug users ignore bodily health when it comes to substance abuse, most imbalance exploiters could hardly care less about such high-falutin' concepts as gameplay balance or "the good of the game."--99.60.230.83 22:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * <font color= "light green">Everyone, game-wide, shouldn't have to run the same sin-only group with a gimmicky invincibility build just to play the game. Hmm, judging by the fact that you, Mr. IP65 are only the millionth person to say that, im sure you can find someone else with the SAME exact views, to do a dungeon the "right" way. I think permanant invincibility, WAS a terrible idea, but does it matter? People did JUST fine farming before it, people run dungeons super quick anyways for immense amounts of money. People will just keep finding ways to do things faster, and better than before. SF is just the first in a line of many invinci-builds people have made. Funny how nobody ever complains about 600's, isnt it? Sonic Wednesday User Da Sonic Sig2.png 00:28, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally I find several of the mechanics of the 600/smite duo questionable, Holy Wrath for one, but as wide spread as 600ing is, it still pales in comparison to what SCers with Shadow Form could do, and even now Shadow Form is spreading into dungeons and the likes previously held by 600/smites, and doing things better and faster than the 600s can do. However, you never heard of four 600/smite teams speed clearing the Underworld, completing it in 7-15 minutes in Hard Mode now, do we?  <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  00:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes but did we ever hear of people trying? Just becasue its not been tried doesnt mean that its totally impossible. There are new ways of doing things appareaing Everyday, look at DTSC and MWSC/MHSC, that was totally 600/smiteable withrunners on the luxon team. Neither of them required a perma. So surely there will be new ways with 600/smite or something along the lines, if it be monk/ele/sin or whatever to "speed clear the underworld" that takes more skill than keeping skill 2 up at all times.--<font color="Blue">Ok Dont Panic 00:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * btw [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 00:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * btw nvm, wasn't completely aware of all spawns of skeles. 76.103.242.232 01:04, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Looks like Great fun (the 600 way) no more invincible sins crowning UW :D :D :D :D --<font color="Blue">Ok Dont Panic 01:12, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * One big difference between the sins going to dungeons and them speed clearing the UW, they don't get ectos in Dungeons, so for the overall economy, this is a BIG plus as ectos will go up in value for everyone. I personally could care less if they are playing in the dungeons. It might bring the price of bone dragon staves and a few of the other uber elite skins down to a price where the general playing population can afford them while those of us who have limited supplies of ectos will see their value rise. And yet, the people who actually enjoy doing the permasin thing (rather than just doing it for easy ecto) can still play and enjoy themselves. That being said however, this page is for discussion of the content of the associated article, not the plusses and minuses of perma SF, or any other build. Feel free to move those discussions to someone's userspace, or a fansite forum somewhere. Thanks! -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  03:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon
Could these be possibly related to pokemon? They seem small compared to most mobs in the underworld and you have to catch them when they are weak.--Bleded Scythe 11:12, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd say ghostbusters then... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Beren (talk).

Most likely, no the item has only seen and revealed to be used for Halloween quest rewards, not any type of summoning stone.--RSS122 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

TexMod
can someone make a texmod with the map including skeles(and post in the texmod archive)? whould be really useful for new testing SCs --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.20.243.27 (talk).

Variety
I think A-net wants to hit home that we need variety in the forms of farming. UWSC could usually only allow certain people strictly with Shadow Form and major experience with areas, all assassins unless you had money for consumables, and only one caster of SS and stuff. With the Dhuum guys you need to have more balanced teams, like said in an article above, 600 / smite shouldn't over farm or should at least include other professions and tactics for the farm. Like a lot of people are saying, Shadow Form was unfair and "Permanent invincibility," from many enemies, bring back the creative thoughts in build-making! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:RSS122 (talk).
 * Hf with a balanced team in wastes now. Anyways, UW can still be done with all perma SF+1 support, which is lol. 76.103.242.232 00:10, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Which just goes to show how ineffective Anet is at understanding and fixing a balance issue. The problem is not the underworld, it's the /permanent invincibility/.  Until they address shadowform and the supporting skills that allow for such a broken game mechanic, shadowform underworld speed clears will not go away.65.207.54.194 14:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Rubies/Sapphires
As per many other debates, should we remove both Rubies and Sapphires as dropable items? We know they drop, but stating them on all characters was, as I recall, "redundant," as it was said that any creatures can drop them.

Quote: "If it's consensus that GWW should not track these drops (because all monsters drop them), a clear announcement should be made somewhere easy to spot (category page or rare material page itself could be good choices) so creature#items_dropped pages become consistent."

Counter Quote: "Linsey states: "

What do you, the community, think? --Curin Derwin 05:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If they drop from "not most" then I think it's noteworthy enough. Then again, it's pretty subjective to say "not most."
 * Rare materials are to be noted as dropping, per the relevant policy. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 15:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Max health in Hard Mode?
anyone know? 24.150.101.241 19:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * just tested they have 644 health in NM and HM 192.168.1.64 16:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

additional quests they show up in
hardly a huge question, but the way that note is going, is it still "such as" or is it an exhaustive list? If the former, bring it back down to 2 examples; if the latter, take out "such as" and put any remaining ones in | <font color="Red">72  {U|T|C} 14:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

?
are they still there? have permas met there match in uw...kinda? i havnt been able to play for like 2 weaks so can someone catch me up?AurenX 21:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Still there. Apparently, some people have adapted to the skeles. --User Ezekial Riddle silverbluesig.png <font color="#dce2e8">R <font color="#cfdae5">I <font color="#b8c2cc">D <font color="#a1b1bf">DLE 21:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What about todays update? No Mad King's Steward= No Skeletons?--Ultima Flames User Ultima Flames Signature.jpg 23:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * yea has that changed it at all?AurenX 21:37, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The Short Story of a Party Who Wanted To Do UW
So there we were, in ToA, at least 3 of us were all excited to do ToA since the latest Halloween quests really convinced us (even I started to like the idea). So we formed a party and we all pretty much knew what to do (except for some minor things here and there). The ones that did UW many times before lead the way. I can tell you that everything went very good, quite a good party. That until we had to deal with the skeletons and the other mobs. Of course, half of the team got systematically mauled by the skeletons. The other half really tried to resurrect but then realized that we were not going to do anything by doing this. /endrant
 * Now I really hope the skeletons will be removed from UW (I'm not doing SC at all, so that's for sure not a reason) but I couldn't care less about the SCs and the price of the ecto.
 * Yes, I would take a full UW run just to be sure I "done" UW. And hell YES I would try to do it the normal way. Heck, I would even try to do it even if there were no such runs, but these skeletons are really a pain in the ASS...assin. No, I'm not an assassin. /tl;dr <font color="#8c9d97">Markus Clouser [[Image:User_Markus_Clouser_signature_img.jpg|19px]] 23:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Skeletons should remain in UW to slow speed clears involving multiple SF sins. If anything they should be buffed some to pose a decent threat to more traditional teams and other farm builds besides SF. Though the skeletons do have rather large patrols, they don't pose a serious threat to any mildly seasoned players because they are not part of any mobs from what I have seen in my own farm runs. As long as you don't pull a mob only to have 2-3 skeletons walk in later they should not be a problem. All it takes to beat skeletons is knowledge and preparation, which can be said about nearly every mission, quest, dungeon, or explorable area in the game.--Godfather XP 03:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You say that everything went very good and you had a good party until you had to deal with skeletons? If your party had issues with the skeletons (no offence) but it wasn't a very good party then. We tried uw with the guild last week and did fine til we reached the quest Servants of Grenth. Eventhou I was frustrated of failling, I think it's awesome they made UW harder, uw is an elite area and should be harder than other areas. I even wouldn't mind Anet adding these (or similar creatures) in the other elite areas (like FoW, deep, Urgoz,...)Class 21:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Remove 1,nerf anouther
i vote that they remove the skeleton(and dying nightmares? :D) from UW and nerf shadowform... problem gone(Skelengtons aer making it hard for all), still hard(its the underworld....duh).-- <font color="Green" size="3px">Mr Mantis  21:20, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * stop impersonating me, thats not the real Mr Mantis! Mr Mantis 21:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * i link to Neil.which is me.so go away.-- <font color="Green" size="3px">Mr Mantis User Neil2250 sig icon4.jpg 21:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

"Anet made Underworld so people could team up and do quest 1 by 1,NOT for 1 team to split into 6 groups and run off.Therefor,i LOVE the new BUFF to uw! Also,anet im waiting for the SF nerf,so dont keep me waiting ;P--Neil2250"




 * Ups. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:49, 19 November 2009  (UTC)

Damn thats awesome idea lets remove 1 farm build so we can use 1000 others -.-. 89.166.101.7 21:53, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

armor ignoring?
so does that mean that protective spirit doesnt reduce the dmg or will that still work on this guys skills?AurenX 00:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * _nothing_ can reduce or prevent the damage. It's like life steal not possible to avoid it. poke | talk 20:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's health loss. de   Kooning  20:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Would Amity or Pacifism counter these guys (considering they actually prevent the foes from using their "bow attack")
 * It would counter them insofar as you consider being unable to damage something is considered "countering" it. –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 06:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well ofcourse, i'd just bore them to death ^^ Class 13:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * it's called degen and lifestealing 84.192.5.147 18:49, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ^^^^ People who say PacifAmitism is useless have obviously never seriously tried it, much like drugs! | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (UTC) 19:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

It is health loss apparently, but how do you know? How can you test that? But, being health loss, skills like Frenzy and Spirit Bond won't double the damage/health loss by there skills or gain health because of it? (Shouldn't it be noted that there skills cause health loss than? Would be useful) F. C. Sauër 16:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

ya
they are rangers: <font color="black" face="courier new">¤Dark  ';~;'  <font color="darkslategray" face="courier new">Chaos¤  07:03, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ it says so on page alredy `<font color="black" face="courier new">¤Dark  ';~;' <font color="darkslategray" face="courier new">Chaos¤  07:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, you'll find that in the infobox top right, and also realize the wiki has known that for oh, so long. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 14:04, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Health
So how much?<font color="#b22222"> X treme 12:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * As is told above under the heading: Max health in Hard Mode? : just tested they have 644 health in NM and HM 192.168.1.64 16:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * First look before asking please, as it is already said clearly on this page. F. C. Sauër 15:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Link plz<font color="#b22222"> X treme 18:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Link to what? Just scroll up a bit on this page and you find it. F. C. Sauër 18:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Link to the title...nevermind I added the health and I see the title now.<font color="#b22222"> X treme 18:47, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * A creature of this level would be expected to have 641 health, the tester was probably a bit mistaken. <font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Jupiter.jpg|19px]] 05:03, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

thought it was fixed?
these guys still dc me with there skills -_-...now im pretty sure its not my comp cuz i can usually play for extended times with no problem but i went into uw and dced 4 times in a row when hit by these guysAurenX 01:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Undead
They've been in UW for quite some time now so I'm surprised I can't find this mentioned but.. aren't they undead? When I use Eternal Aura on them it deals 200 damage and Aura of Holy Might deals 100 which means they are taking x2 damage from it. Unless they are using something like frenzy that would mean they are undead. But correct me if I'm wrong. 195.252.70.43 13:25, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Tested it with smiting prayers to the same result, I'll add a note to the page.
 * They're skeletons, which are a type of undead. --Silver Edge 21:34, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Then there should have been a note about the holy damage like on all undead creature pages 195.252.70.43 01:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Ecto drop rate
Anyone knows the drop rate from skeletons? I'm not shure, but looks like 4% to me... can anyone confirm? --Sanka02 21:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't done any research, but I am under the impression I do get more ectos from skeles than I do from say, Mindblades or Smites. So 4% is possible. 193.215.199.34 11:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Am I the only one
Who thinks that irony rules the world, seeing that Dhuum banned undead and ressurections, but still aims to reclaim his position through the use of undead?-- Mark,     het Beest  14:56, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * perhaps this analogy suits, perhaps not: if police are to keep peace w/ guns, citizens must be banned from owning guns
 * and no, this has been remarked before | 7  2   User_72_Truly_Random.jpg | 17:43, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Blindness
Can they be blinded?. Technically a foe has a 10% chance of not missing under blindness, but when I tried using Throw Dirt on a skele in HM, they still attack with Bone Spike without missing. I checked if it was casting Bone Spike, and everytime it cast Bone Spike, it still hits-Wracken 05:41, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit- Didnt see the notes under Bone spike skill, they cannot be missed-Wracken 05:41, 5 June 2011 (UTC)