Talk:Game updates/20090514

'''Gotta love this anyway. Well, as other said. GG Anet, you just made 100 players quit GW.'''
 * I'll never quit until the day the game becomes subscription based (aka. next content patch) 65.40.196.108

WTB
WTB Paragon buff? WTB Ritualist buff? WTS nerfs. Oh well. 98.162.255.96 23:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, paragon buff? Are you kidding me? - Auron 23:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No sir. I'm tired of retardedly weak/dumb elites (angelic bond, incoming, anthem of guidance, etc), poor motivation line, poor command line, yeah that pretty weak. Don't toss that imbagon crap at me I hate that build with a bloody passion it takes no skill at all. 98.162.255.96 23:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * On top of imbagon being the best PvE build in years, especially for balanced, paragon utility is greater than that offered by most classes. Are you one of the people that try to take 7 attack skills and aggressive refrain? Those are generally the only people I run into that call for paragon buffs instead of paragon nerfs. Here are a few things you should try out, even for non-imbagon paras - EBSH, drunken master, technobabble, swift javelin (goes great with orders spammers), vicious attack, a second TNTF (only if the party needs more defense, since energy isn't an issue for paragons) and ofc, sig return (which imbagons usually can't fit on their bar). Oh, and since the elite is basically an optional slot, it can be anything from Stunning Strike which reduces caster boss damage to zero, to Expel Hexes, which makes even the fiercest DoA gloom hex stacks look tame. I mean, you have to be really bad to do poorly with a paragon (or several) on your team. - Auron 23:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No I am not one of those idiots who would take AR and 7 spear attacks. Yeah imbagon is a good build, however its a cheap gimmick. You hate gimmicks do you not? Anyway I will not doubt you knowledge on that stuff you mentioned working. However the odds of me getting in a team to do that is slim to none. Multiple paragons? Thats funny I've been at this game for a while and I've only been in a multiple paragon team maybe 3 times. What I mean by balance is give the paragon skills that sets itself apart. Right now most of their stuff needs multiple paragons to work, or can be done better by another class. Without the pve skills what does the paragon have thats would make you put one in a party? 98.162.255.96 23:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Incoming is powerful, imbagon doesn't matter because it's pve. 99.142.23.15 23:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Incoming powerful/useful? LOL yes to the non primary paragon. Really I need to waste my elite to make you move faster when fall back does the exact same thing except ending with an attack. 98.162.255.96 23:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * and retarted communing skills.--ShadowFog 23:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How could I forget about the communing line shadowfog. Seriously why make the ritualist/paragon classes if you refuses to buff them in any way, shape or form? 98.162.255.96 23:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Atleast they buffed some mesmer skills, as for the ranger's i'm not sure if it's a buff or a nerf. As long as they buff rangers and mesmers i'm happy --Soulforged 23:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * ^This^ ...where the frig is are our Goon PvE buffs? I'm sick of 90% of this Class' "Awesome Factor" being locked up in one single retardedly OP "skill" (nerf that crap if ya have to!) ...when is Anet going to spread the luv around a little bit? -- ilr  23:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks ilr that is what i've been trying to say.98.162.255.96 23:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * WTB Buff to almost all the elites in the game still, smiting prayers anyone?, amity?, ring any bells? Baddock [[Image:User_SirBaddock_Sig.jpg|15px]] 00:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With this nerf to Castigation, I've given up on Smiting. I've always hated it when a "Healing Class" gets pigeon holed into Healing --> and Smiting used to be a good way around that but at this point I'm just going to wait until some other MMO comes along with a Healing class that retain some semblance of Offense in the Form of a Full Attack Chain .  ...(Arcaned Jesus-Beam excluded obviously). -- ilr  00:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * WTS WoW Shadow Priest. :D

They are just totally oblivious to how many craptastic skills the Paragon and Ritualist have.--ShadowFog 01:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No shadowfog they know. They just show by every update they just don't care.98.162.255.96 01:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With ye olde Aegis gone from PvP, Paragon and Ritualist party-wide buffs will likely/hopefully become more used. Mediggo 11:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * hope springs eternal ^^   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah,imbagon? Paras could only PvE now, aren't they? A class totally inferior in PvP, so balanced. They have no change for this worst class for 5 months. Trying ignore it and see if people forget. And people say they still has imbagon, come on, imbagon did no damage, and with Shadow form, who needs imbagon? Pathetic.--60.249.37.233 07:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Shadow Form fails in areas in which foes have means of nonspell enchantment removal. Also, a group with imbagon is generally faster in easier HM areas, than having a permasin tank one group/mob at time. Also, Paragons are not completely inferior in PvP, just out of favor due to multiple nerfs to certain shouts and skills. I expect Paragon to become more popular as they nerf other classes, like in this latest update. Mediggo 07:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

peace and harmony
fuck yeah. now I can sleep. --Cursed Angel  23:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * hexway makes me a sad panda.  SniperFox [[Image:User_SniperFox_IconSmall.gif]] 23:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * PnH was too OP before it's just that hexes were too. I'm hoping it'll turn out weak enough to make hexes viable but good enough to keep hexways from ruling now, and at least with LC being slightly nerfed things shouldn't be too bad (LC was like the only hex buil being used). My only worry is that this is going to force you to take PnH even more because people might start running hexways again. 81.107.210.147 10:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's more of an underlying problem of the other anti hex skills. There are just too few and they're usually too weak. PnH countered the hex heavy meta perfectly but rather than fixing the underlying problem Anet took the easy road. There should be alternatives for PnH, not just generic 1 sec cast, 12 recharge hex removals.  SniperFox [[Image:User_SniperFox_IconSmall.gif]] 13:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pretty funny that with all Hexes of Mass Pressure around, ANet never buffed mass hex removal skills like Withdraw Hexes, but instead they just made PnH somewhat able to counter hexway WHILE making it totally unbalanced against about everything else. Dear ANet, look at Divert Hexes, look at Blessed Light and Withdraw Hexes! Mediggo 07:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Anet
D-strike seems to still not be reverted. What the hell are you waiting for?  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  23:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * xmas--FoxPromise 00:09, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

April 14th
GG Anet just shut down GW and work on GW2 instead of trolling us with your 0% effort "this is only a test" policy. 68.193.113.198
 * Agreed. 71.169.139.2 23:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * *looks at date* Man you are a month behind.... Lynx Raven Raide 09:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Anet certainly is behind.

It was more exciting when it was every two months... :[... 121.223.87.220 10:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank God
I got to scratch 1/3 of my top 9 nerf list today. Good Job Izzy and Team! No new dynamics beyond Aegis, but you didn't touch the MB Ele sadly.~>Sins  WDB 23:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah PnH and LC really needed nerfs, though I'm not sure whether they were big enough or not... might have to go play a few and see. MoI was a bit harsh since now it's worse than it was for primary eles too. Castigation Signet was overpowered but it needed to be since it was the only thing making smiting viable, and with SoH basically killed (yeah it wasn't a good skill before but now it does 1/3 of the damage it used to) smiting has been crippled again. As for Aegis, it's an interesting change but with that cost and, more importantly, recharge, I'm not sure it's really viable. 81.107.210.147 10:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Needs Moar pvp FGJ! buff
Come on anet, atleast give it a good duration, or short duration but double adren gain please. 81.147.140.212 23:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No lol. the reason it was nerfed was to stop BB sins or they get 20s of perma KD.--Silven 07:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Or they could be imaginative and think up a new way to get around that other than giving it Smiter's Boon treatment. DO to ti what they did to Mirror of Ice or have it scaled in Str/Tactics.--92.9.71.213 15:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Interesting...
Ranger: Keep the Bleeding and Poison condition, make Bleeding not conditional and nerf the over all damage to be completely conditional...

WoH: WoH's use is still the same... just makes it worse for those that dont know how to use it properly...

WE: Goody... Revert... back to Shock Axe Evis... WTB Sword Buff...

PWK: Well... makes my Spilt Monk build better...

Ele: OMG?!?!?! Kappa Mesmer Nerfed??? WOW!

Smiters: NERFED!

Linger: Not surprised... but I still question the AoE

Aegis: functionality changed to, um... Shadow Form Target Other for 3 Seconds?

PnH: I think its still fine for use... just scaled...

Sin Defense: Interesting changed... "Directly away"... so that could be back since you could shadow step even further away form the monks if the target is behind you and you shadow step foward deeper behind the back line...

IW: Um... ok?

Outcome: Smite Balence w/ WE is dead... Kappa is dead... and Ranger's need to find a new damage source. I see an increase to Gimmick, Degen Pressure and Splits... - SabreWolf 23:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Ranger's OK but they were trying to stop the "pewpew turret" sort of thing, making it more into a condition-spreader or support class rather than raw damage. The smiting nerfs make me sad, the shadow-stepping is good (though Shadow Fang stinks anyway; it needed its aftercast but I'm sad they didn't chop its recharge too), and LC and PnH both needed that (in fact LC probably needs more but it's better than nothing). As for WE, that makes me sad too. It's too powerful as a skill but not powerful enough as a stance. I used to use it a bit pre-nerf and it's OK but not having an IAS hurts. 81.107.210.147 10:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If ranged damage is supposed to be support, then paragons need 10x more nerfing than rangers.96.233.8.52 18:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

WTB new ideas for skills
Assassin: Finally fixed the skill as they were intended to function.

Elementalist: Mirror Of Ice: For 5 seconds FC Water mesmers fail. Steam: Target foe feels a gentle cold breeze. If target foe is on fire, the breeze Blinds that foe for no..a little..some time.

Mesmer: Illusionary Balance Update reduced energy cost to 5. woot!

Monk: Aegis (PvP) For 1..3 seconds target ally has shadow form...

Elementalist: Elemental Lord: For 40..60 Seconds you are enchanted with the old version of Elemenal Lord and Aura of Restoration.

--Johnnyrodrigues 23:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, correct me if I'm wrong but Steam has the same Blind duration, it just does less damage. 81.107.210.147 10:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Bad update after bad update. Rangers keep getting the nerf bat, I quit Build Wars.
If a skill update is not mentioned, it's fine.


 * Mirror of Ice: is now useless.
 * Steam: Is still broken until the blind duration is 1...6...7 seconds.


 * Illusionary Weaponry: recharge fails still.


 * Castigation Signet: joins the other smiting skills in terms of uselessness.
 * Peace and Harmony: just indirectly buffed hexway.
 * Word of Healing: cannot outheal a scythe anymore.


 * Lingering Curse: is now like Wounding Strike without damage or 20% lower health and with 3x the recharge.


 * Hunter's Shot: is now useless like all other bow attacks.
 * Melandru's Shot: is now useless.
 * Keen Arrow: needed a rework and got a nerf.

Side note: Bows are now officially useless. I quit using my ranger until further notice.


 * Protective Was Kaolai: now drops your equipment bonuses and you lose one of your skill slots.

PvP:


 * Strength of Honor: thrown in the garbage as with all other smiting skills.
 * Aegis: Balanced version of shadow form.


 * Warrior's Endurance: Apparently you do NOT listen to anyone who has an IQ > 30 since this was nerfed instead of nerfing scythes which are the real problem.

PvE:

Low Blow: removed from the game due to inappropriate reference.

Uber Epic Failure x 10^100:


 * Failed to fix a bug that allowed players to destroy entire teams with Wounding Strike.
 * Failed to fix a bug that made Mind Burn useless.
 * Failed to fix a bug that made bows obsolete for damage.
 * Failed to fix a bug that made bows able to spam interrupts without limit or penalty.
 * Failed to fix a bug that caused scythes to do too much damage with warrior's endurance.
 * Failed to fix the game.
 * Failed to fix a bug that caused a lot of elites to be useless.
 * Failed to fix a bug taht caused Smiting Prayers to be obsolete.
 * The writer of this section hereby quits Build Wars for being the failure that it continues to be and will proceed to spend the next month playing a random Korean grind fest which is better than Build Wars.


 * lol. --75.71.67.5 23:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Bro, you have no idea what you're talking about. Scythes were never the problem with Warrior's Endurance. Do you even know what obs mode is? Learn to play before bitching about balance. - Auron 23:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Scythes are always the problem. Warrior's Endurance is balanced without scythes. I say fire the balancing team, roll the game back to the launch of the first chapter, and start over.
 * Wanna know how I know that you don't PvP? --75.71.67.5 23:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

in b4 teh "CAN i HAZ UR STUFF?" -- ilr  23:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not what Auron said. He said scythes weren't the problem with Endurance.  Endurance was OP because it gave warriors Expertise.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ This. Axe warriors were overpowered with Endurance, because it allowed them to spam power attack, prot strike, bulls strike and interrupts with only dismember as their adrenaline DW skill. That was a lot of armor ignoring damage for a bar that required no skill whatsoever. - Auron 00:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't PvP because I don't have the last 2 chapters and therefore have no viable skills left, and because PvP is broken and it sucks too.72.64.0.119 00:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you don't PvP, why do you feel the need to post your opinions about PvP-based updates for a PvP-based game? --75.71.67.5 00:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I would PvP if the entire game didn't fail badly and require all chapters? Build Wars has turned into a Korean grind fest with more fail.
 * You've never played a Korean grindfest if you think Guild Wars is one. --75.71.67.5 00:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ITT: derp derp derp --Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

@OP Why the hell are you complaining about a PvP-ONLY change if you only PvE? What's wrong with you? Could you pretty pretty please buy some common sense and logical thought? Pika Fan 02:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * lol@ "PvP-based game"... sweet that both sides still think they are the exclusive reason for the existence of this game ^^   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Proof that GW is a PvP-based game - look at Zquest rewards.Pika Fan 17:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This update was a win. Except for aegis, that skill is useless now and kaolai was a bit over the top.prokiller88 23:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

A stupid list of uninformed opinions, because I think I'm funny
On second thought, wasted effort. 99.142.23.15 23:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I wish more people would come to that conclusion. I feel your pain. - Auron 23:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Logical conclusion, or ignorance of the back button? WE MAY NEVER KNOW.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

lol
Don't you love how they pile up a bunch of random nerfs and then put something like...


 * : decreased Energy cost to 5.

Srsly anet... wat.  SniperFox  23:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, now PvE warriors can use it with flail. Not saying that it is good but it is possible. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  23:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Except you don't gain adrenaline with IW up.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 00:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * IW is a completely legitimate skill and not at all only compatible with gimmicks that don't even work. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

These are Probably the best a Illusionary Weaponry bar can get with an IAS, at 12 tactics Rangers cant do much to you.(marsc 18:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC))
 * "deflect arrows"


 * Oh, you. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 23:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * at least put Feral Aggression and Otyugh's Cry in the bm build and Deadly Riposte in the /w build... --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 14:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Illusionary Weaponry is now 5 energy, AND there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! --99.2.138.209 09:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Plot synopsis
If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go kill something. --Jette  00:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 5 stars.--ShadowFog 00:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)



Fragility
I'm seeing Conditionway all over again.. gogo ^^ ! -- Karasu (talk) 00:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's lol PvE. Unless you count burning as a condition, don't expect a huge change in the meta.  Besides, it's in Illusion, which is like the least useful attribute for a PvE mesmer.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Clumsiness, Wandering Eye.Pika Fan 02:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to forget Signet of Illusions..
 * SoI is pretty bad outside of gimmicks.Pika Fan 02:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "Besides, it's in Illusion, which is like the least useful attribute for a PvE mesmer" I think you should play mesmer more... --Soulforged 08:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With VoR/wastrel's/empathy dom has much bigger domage (c wut i did thar?) than illusion, and illusion doesn't really have anything worth mentioning other than said domage. Inspiration for energy and fast casting for um... well... it's got power return in it, which is one of the better pve interrupts.--118.90.61.118 16:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Illusion magic has Fevered Dreams, Wandering Eye, Clumsiness, Conjure Phantasm, Confusing Images, Air of Disenchantment, and more. It might not deal the highest damage, but it can support your team quite well; besides, sometimes degen is better than actual damage. --Soulforged 18:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fevered Dreams? Th'hell are you going to use a 3-second Daze for in PvE?  And PvE condi pressure?  lol.  Wandering Eye for... what?  40 AoE damage?  Stopping one mob from landing one attack is laughable in PvE, the damage is laughable - laughable skill, tbh.  Clumsiness is half-decentbecause mob AI is crappy enough to allow seven balled up wars to all get owned by it.  Conjure Phantasm is terrible.  Confusing Images is lolworthless - when are you ever going to need some particular spell cast half as fast?  It's not even every spell, just whichever one the mob happens to toss out next.  Air of Disenchantment is occasionally useful.  But compared to watching some caster boss eat 140 damage Backfires and every other balled up caster eat 80 damage VoR?  Illusion is incredibly lackluster.  And when is degen better than mesmer damage?  Mesmer damage is all armor-ignoring, anyway.   [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  05:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, wandering eye and clumsiness are amazing sources of damage for most of PvE. Lyssa's aura for emanagement then those two spammed on recharge clears mobs without having to be in line of sight. I mean, it isn't patently imbalanced like jesusbeam or ele nukes, but as an actually balanced source of damage, it's fine (and it's viable for the majority of PvE, unlike cry of pain). You know that cave in boddok caverns with all those archers? You can sit under the bridge and kill them all in like a minute with just those two spells. For a mesmer, that's a pretty welcome change to not being able to do anything at all. I wouldn't be so quick to knock the illusion line in PvE or PvP. - Auron 06:34, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We ran an Illusion mesmer in GvG for a while to kill warriors on balanced adrenaline spikes, but single-target shutdown like that isn't nearly as valuable in PvE. Admittedly, Wandering Eye does higher damage than I recalled, but like you said: why not take an ele, ele, monk, or monk for damage?  Clumsiness is fine.  I don't know that cave with all the archers, but I can think of quite a few other situations where there are balls of physicals that would take damage in (what I assume would be) much the same way.  But more than you could do with something else (even on a mesmer primary)?  No, Illusion may not be wtf absolute garbaaaaaagggggge, but I do think that there are better options for mesmers in PvE.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  07:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Er... not really. VoR is actually pretty trash compared to clums/WE spam, since it causes okay damage when they use skills, but many mobs run out of skills to use by the time you've applied VoR. VoR also doesn't prevent anything from coming through, whilst clums and WE both interrupt attacks. It really depends on the mobs you're facing, but honestly I'd take empathy/backfire with lyssa's aura as elite over VoR for most of PvE. I like illusion a whole lot more though, outside of those skills there's nothing worth bringing. Maybe pspike? :/
 * Also in PvP, crippling anguish. Ineptitude is just bad balance, that skill shouldn't exist at all (it should either blind and interrupt or do damage and interrupt, but not all three at once on such a short recharge). - Auron 07:11, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically, it doesn't interrupt. You can still hit through Ineptitude, but you'll be blind so it's not likely.  I see your point, just saying.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 07:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "What the hell is this?! Shit like this is why I don't PvE!" -regarding Soothing Images.
 * Also applies to Crippling Anguish. I'll take your word that it was run in PvP at some point, but I haven't seen it lately.
 * As far as what I'd run on a PvE mesmer, I'd have to say non-Mesmer skills. The whole mesmer concept just isn't viable for PvE, imho.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  07:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I take that back. I've often considered running six mesmer heroes with both Tease and Cry, so no foes could do anything ever.  I got the idea after watching all six of my heroes get killed in Cry spam by wind riders in Magus Stones; I'll have to let you know how that goes.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  07:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * D'awww, those are adorable, like some combination of Cthulhu and bubblegum. More on topic, don't bother with the infinite interrupts idea, I tried something like that once -- apparently hero AI is dumbed down.  Sometimes they'll all interrupt the same skill, or miss it (intentionally, I presume), or garbage like that.  Naturally they don't do that in PvP, where it would actually matter, but I guess whoever makes the decisions on that kind of BS was feeling trolly or maybe just wasted that day.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 07:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Ritualists place in the world
I've already cried to my guild, so I'll try to be more composed here. What is a ritualist supposed to do? Please, god please tell me. Spawning Power is mostly useless, Elementalists and Necromancers do my job better, and Monks are over all better healers. I guess we can flag run, but eles can do that, too. I guess I can hybrid, providing help with Warmonger's and Ancestor's while throwing out heals, but... is that it? 216.8.135.174 00:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ritspike gimmicks. 99.142.23.15 00:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ask Linsey Murdock‎.--ShadowFog 00:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to see this ritspike gimmick build.216.8.135.174 00:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. I can't vouch for its effectiveness, though.

99.142.23.15 00:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Woo, it's a team build. /cry 216.8.135.174 00:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ritualists' place in the world is as gimmicky spikers and overpowered damage preventers. Except in PvE, where they can just cast Summon Spirits, five spirits, and SoGM.  Squee!  5 times more damage than a warrior!  No wait more.  And that's the least of the problems with PvE right now.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With so many fuck up Ritualist skills, yes they are all in gimmicky. Some day they will get it right.--ShadowFog 01:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * To the right insert your favorite non attacking,not primary ritualist build and maybe another healing skill which probably you'll need.--Wealedout 01:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What's that got to do with Spawning magic? -- ilr  03:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Spawning power increases the duration of weapon spells. -_- 208.125.194.60 09:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I must say I agree, what is rits place in the world? monks outheal rits and eles out dmg us. and yet again we keep getting more and more nerfs. so yeah its true that if you take a bunch of spirits you can have areally nice build but that it! oh yes we can summon spirits which most of them sucks very badly imo and you can take a rager with high expertise that can do way better job... So yeah I would really like to know what is SO GOOD ABOUT RITS beside this gimmicky shit that everybody is talking about --Ritualist-tango-icon-200.png Requiem  21:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ritualist's prymary attribute gives bonus to the length of weapon spells, which really is not much when an elementalist could spam better with no energy worries. Also gives bonus to summoned creature health, no necro will cry over that any day when necros can keep their creatures healed and necro's primary attribute transforms everyone into little explosive fun piñatas of energy. So, ritualists, besides being able to climb their own atributes higher than 12 for your spells to be stronger like every other class.....--Wealedout 11:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

WOW
THIS FUCKING UPDATE TOOK 2 MONTHS TO COMPLETE? Arenanet, youre so darn good in being imcompetent. 91.154.10.40 00:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that unless they have absolutely no utility tools at all for their game, they could have done this in one afternoon if they really put their minds to it. But they're busy with BW2.  Btw, never use the term "incompetent" without making sure you spell it properly.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well lets see... The main team was working on GW2 while the update team was working on the 4th Anniversary update.... considering this came out only 2 weeks after the latter (which would have had their full attention for the best part of your aforementioned 2 months) I kinda dont think there is much room for bitching atm. Lynx Raven Raide 09:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Anet: What you should have done
1. Buff pets in PvE 2. Buff Paragon skills in PvE (imbagon asside, the one build worth using are Racway variations) 3. Stop buffing Ele skills. seriously. Nuking still and will always be fail in HM. you are just making eles into healers and killing monks.

Love, 75.187.206.97 00:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If those are the worst problems you could see with this update, you may wish to consider furking the muck loar. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, thats not -nearly- all of them, nor the worst. I just picked the ones I currently had in mind.75.187.206.97 01:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, this vicious cycle of meta-shuffling is nothing new. 68.58.91.59 07:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "1. Buff pets in PvE" ...Ummm, maybe you should learn how to use one before complaining about that ;) Lynx Raven Raide 09:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhhh... maybe you should realize how useless they really are? They're terrible! Their damage is bad, their AI is bad, controlling them takes too much effort and their responses are slow and clunky, and you can't even send one out to aggro a target and take fire for you. I mean, compare that to WoW's pet system where you can send your pet out like three radar ranges away to kill something - it's useful compared to gw's "well I already aggro'd the target but I guess I'll send my pet in after it." For PvE, why don't pets even have growl? I mean, come on, that's basic shit that GW pets have never and will never have.
 * On top of pets being a waste of space, there's not even a difference between the 20+ skins. Damage type? Srsly? They don't have inherent skills or abilities or even resistances to different things? Really? What's the point? Such a waste of time and effort.
 * They really are trash - 110% eye candy. For PvE, it requires two of your skill slots to make remotely viable, and that's a huge waste of precious skill slots that could be used for additional damage or interrupts (or utility in the form of self-preservation and condi removal). Rangers don't have enough slots on their bar to be messing around with piece of shit mechanics like pets. Unless you're talking, like, non-hard-mode PvE, then yeah, anything works. But pets really do suck. I'd recommend learning the game before acting condescending and putting little smiley faces like you have the first clue what you're talking about here :/ - Auron 15:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I use a pet build for vanquishing, lol. 99.142.23.15 18:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I use a pet build all the time, which is why I made the comment about learning how to use one before complaining. I mean seriously, quit going to PvX and getting cookie-cutter builds and start making your own, then you will realise how much damage these things can do. Lynx Raven Raide 22:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, rage time. GW pets don't have "Growl" because this is GW not WoW.  Pets don't have unique attributes because this is GW not WoW.  Perhaps pets are not the strongest option for a ranger or any class for that matter, but making that argument based on how things work in WoW is rediculous.  FFS, go play WoW.  68.193.113.198
 * Hehe, that is odd, I have heard my pet growl a few times when using certain skills. Again, reiterating my point of learning how to use a pet before complaining. Or, as the poster above said, go back to play WoW. Lynx Raven Raide 01:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The thing is, while your pet builds 'work' and may be fun, a serious build not bothering using pets is twice as effective. &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 05:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I like how I completely defeat your argument and the best thing you can come up with is "go back to WoW." Pets are absolute trash, they're sub-par not only to pets in WoW but they're sub-par to simply not taking the pet to begin with and using those skill slots more wisely. Oh wow, you used them to beat PvE? What a feat! That's me told. I guess I should throw away 97 attribute points, two (or more) skill slots, and get blacked out for several seconds every time my pet dies just to add like 40 damage every time the pet feels like attacking. Your argument of "they work in pve" is completely solid and holds more water than anything I've said, I guess I'll just stop commenting and go play a far superior worse game. - Auron 10:04, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Pets are good for one thing and one thing only: rampage as one. And even then, they're like disposable needles; you take one shot and then toss it.  Cast Comfort when you need it again and let it die again.  Well, and collecting.  I only collect pets you wouldn't expect normal decent people to have though, like spiders and crocodiles.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 11:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Auron, I actually do run a good PvP pet build, but if you checked my user page, you would see that I prefer to do PvE, but that is beside the point. If you work on it you can nut out a good beast build and do serious damage with it, but that would require work, wouldnt it. Jette: I dont actually use that skill, as I use better ones, that aren't one shotters. As I said, learn how to use the pet, then come back and complain. Lynx Raven Raide 05:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's just that when you go a BM, you either 1) lose your abilities as a good ranger and make your pet a powerhouse which cannot directly adjust into battle the way players can. Of course it's another ally blocking your foes, but that's just all... Pet damage is weak compared to Warriors too. Another thing, 2) you suck at being both beastmaster (not that BMs ever were truly good), and being a good ranger which interrupts casters, spread conditions, lay traps, cripple kiters and whatnot. Beast Mastery as an attribute is cool, but unfortunately pets suck in GW. Mediggo 06:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah? I've won multiple matches in RA with the only skills on my bar being Echo and Mending. DE (is he still around? I haven't been here for a while...) was able to get a glad point with that same build back when it took 10 consecutive wins. Sure, it worked, but compared to any other build, it was complete trash. Its likely the same for your own. While it may work, other builds are far superior.
 * Show us this "good PvP pet build." We'll show you why its out done by a different build. &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 06:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything pets can do, some other ranger skill can do better. King Neoterikos 06:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Careful there bro, there are a couple of good BM skills and I hear HB is srs. Misery  06:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Dude, those aren't too crash hot in PvE though. King Neoterikos 09:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Only good thing about pets as damage dealers is Otyugh's Cry... And it synergizes with Enraged Lunge. But playing a BM in that way is still inferior compared to, say, Magehunter's Smash warrior (yes, I'm aware that Otyguh provides 30 secs ability to be unblockable), who is not a bot and can actually position himself and does not need to be micro'd. Rampage is good, but once again, it requires huge load of energy (even with high expertise), and it requires your pet to be alive. Also, with RaO, your pet is there to support you so you can keep RaO on. Heal as One is... well, it's "ok". It has it's uses, and that's why spearchucker rangers go with it, but that's all it's good for. It's not as good as Magebane Shot, Burning Arrow or Melandru's Arrow, which are definitely better choices in PvP for real rangers. Mediggo 07:00, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * El oh el. Trying to argue that those skills aren't very good is not a good idea. Pets are terrible. Misery  10:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've tried PvP with BM. The problem's been that when I've started running around the pet also stopped attacking. Forcing the attack makes it attack about once - when I don't attack at the moment. The critter is a hex magnet when it comes to SS or empathy - it's a party killer with SS. You can only stop it attacking if you run around - how ironic. The dmg alone is actually ok, especially with the long duration of Otyugh's Cry. But all in all it's a way too easily countered thing. SamoK 14:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Let's put me in charge of balance updates!
Here's how I would have done the update (This is NOT trolling)


 * Heart of Shadow: Change the name to something less emo.
 * Shadow Fang: remove deep wound and change to damage
 * Viper's Defense: decrease recharge


 * Mirror of Ice: rework completely instead of rewarding spikes
 * Steam: fix the Blind duration instead of the damage


 * Illusionary Weaponry: Either change to a Skill or decrease recharge to 5.


 * Castigation Signet: No nerf needed
 * Peace and Harmony: Give it earshot AoE after the current nerf
 * Word of Healing: revert nerf


 * Foul Feast: 8 second recharge, 3/4 second cast, target ally gains energy instead of the caster


 * All ranger nerfs: Remove quick activation and buff damage to match that of a spear.


 * Protective was Kaolai: increase armor bonus to 30.
 * "This is NOT trolling"


 * That automatically makes your post a troll post. I should know.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Jette = fail troll is fail.
 * Is it sad when I know a troll's IP without looking at history? ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 01:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * lolwut you fail at balancing. please go balance rock paper scissors its the only game you will ever know how to balance.
 * So are you two vandals or just one who knows how to change his IP? ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 01:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, this 119 d00de has been Fail-Trolling all year long. I pity him. He should just be Banned and saved from embarrassing himself until he lrnz 2 do it rite -- ilr  01:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The appropriate response to trolling is copypasta. Unfortunately, I have none available that suits the situation.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * While this is midly amusing, it has zero relationship to the information on the associated page. Please move it to your userspace. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 01:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Just when you thought today couldn't get worse, 4chan arrives, and makes everything worse. Also, lol PnH shout.68.193.113.198

Dishonorable changes
With so many complaining about skills, no one says anything about something that's been asked for for years. We don't know exactly how it works now, but it's better to spend your energy complaining about your favorite skills than see if something you've been asking for for years is improved, right? 76.84.34.210 03:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Should be changed in next couple months.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 07:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What does /reporting do now? It gives YOU dishonorable points for reporting someone?  Can someone intemperate this?68.193.113.198

People still dont understand
This is business. The goal of a business is to increase profit while reducing the cost.

ANet's Strategy: The first goal is to increase profit. Thus they introduce Nicholas the Traveler and Xunlai Tournament House, to make people buy second/third/+ accounts so that they can obtain more Gifts of the Traveler/Tournament Points each week/month. In Addition, they introduce Makeover Junk, Name change, etc, which modifies a few bits of data stored for $15. This is not a rip-off, this is business. Note that secondary account 'rarely' play(see below)

The second goal is to reduce the cost. Note that the more people playing, the more it costs ANet to maintain servers etc. Hence they do not ban leechers/bots. Leechers and botters discourages people from pvping(proof: Fort Aspenwood Luxon side is always empty?), so less matches are to occur, less cost for ANet. Some people even quit because of leechers, saying this game is, but then ANet already got their money, and less people playing minimizes their cost, hence larger profit. In addition, not introducing new campaigns and new stuff makes people get bored of the game, yes, those too quit. If thats not enough, introduce nerfs to skills that people like, i know so many people who like PnH and WoH, Lingering Curse, Melandru's Shot, PWK. Again(see the comments up above about how many people quit) people quit = more profit for ANet. The point is, get people to like some skills, then demolish those skills so that those people are disappointed/angry and quit.

This will have no effect on GW2, as people will want to try the game out of curiosity. The moment you buy the game is the moment ANet got their money. The moment you quit is the moment ANet can enjoy that you're not around anymore.
 * Very interesting assessment. I agree many of their updates tend to discourage players from sticking around. Loves to Sync 04:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Your argument that more people playing = higher maintenance cost is good, but it doesn't apply to Guild Wars, a game where the player count is steadily decreasing. Anet doesn't realize they have a pve/pvp split yet. WHen they finally find out about that cool feature, stuff might actually get fixed.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't agree that "This will have no effect on GW2", as many people who think ANet can't balance and have ruined the game won't buy GW2 because they think it'll go down the same road and don't want to waste their money. And as for nerfs that people don't like, well, if you use a skill because it's OP, you're not going to like it if it gets nerfed, are you? It doesn't mean it shouldn't. The PnH and LC nerfs were good, they were long overdue. In fact, there's an argement that they should have been nerfed more (though for PnH to be nerfed more, other hexes - probably VoR, SB, SS and maybe Depravity - would have needed a bit of a nerf too) 81.107.210.147 11:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "This is business" is a synonym to "This is a rip-off". 68.193.113.198
 * lol... the skill nerf made me quit playing smiting. I'm still very much around in Guild Wars. Nice try, Anet! Baurus Ironballs 01:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 02:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha the graphic is hilarious. 76.20.238.253 01:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Izzy is the one sleeping amarite? --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] 03:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With all the neglect of pvp he's been doing, I don't think izzy has time to sleep. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:44, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely. You forgot a dart board with skills on it.--ShadowFog 03:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey you remembered that! I'm so proud ^^. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * At least Wizards can admit it... --Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 21:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever happened to the dice that Anet rolls to decide what gets nerfed?
 * They broke? 86.24.115.34 12:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

People never learn
it's always the same people who bitc* about the nerfs/buffs. When will they ever learn that they're not in charge and a trusted few are? I mean if they can do better, they would have been hired by aNet and not just trolling on wiki. :P If you hate it so much then quit the game and stop trolling 119.94.240.203 05:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Who is this "trusted few?" AFAIK only izzy is balancing skills.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 06:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * lol @ suggesting anet is better at balance than some of the community - Auron 07:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as we all know, none of you guys MADE Guild Wars. 119.94.240.203 08:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My nanny doesn't work in a restaurant, neither does my dad, for that matter, and I do. I know for a fact that both my nanny and my dad cook far better than several of the cooks that work for us. So gg fail arguement, try again?
 * Auron, have you even looked at the balance suggestions of people on this wiki =/ Misery  09:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * lol. ANet is better at balance than some of the community. However, I'm sure that some of the community would be better than them. They're different "some"s, though. And tbh, balancing is a tough job because whenever you nerf something, people will be sad, even if it needed that nerf. If you don't nerf it, the people who recognise that it needs to be nerfed will be sad. And so forth. You can't please all of the people all of time. 81.107.210.147 11:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can. Guess how? Split the skill into PvP and PvE versions. Make the PvE one way too powerful, make the PvP one balanced, and both parties will be happy.
 * Here's a secret - PvPers don't whine because they hate what gets done. They whine because they hate what doesn't get done, which unfortunately is the majority of what needs to happen. I mean, Warrior's Endurance was broken, yea - but it was only one of many things that are broken and make the game a piece of shit to play and obs. Heroes have been a problem for well over a year now, Wounding Strike for longer, Palm Strike for many months, Lingering curse is still a problem, and ele damage has been too high since Nightfall came out. I mean, the list of what needs to happen is like sixteen pages long, yet ANet manages to do what? Two fixes in two months? Warriors and rangers? That doesn't cut it. PvPers whine because that's bullshit. ANet isn't putting any effort into balance, and it's obvious to anyone who has two eyes and a brain.
 * PvPers don't complain when stuff gets nerfed because they've played it and played against it enough to realize how broken it is (the ones that do are retarded and don't count anyway). That leaves PvE whiners who get their favorite skills destroyed by a PvP-only balance issue; honestly, their skills shouldn't be touched ever if the PvE/PvP split exists. I don't see how ANet fails to make PvErs happy with their ability to change everything in PvP without changing a single thing in PvE.
 * That leaves pleasing the PvPers, which, while it is a much harder task, is not an impossible one. I, for example, don't want a perfectly balanced game - I want a fun one. I want a game that requires even a spec of skill to win. Having to try my hardest, play to the best of my ability, simply to beat a retard mashing palm strike on recharge? I can't let up the gas or I'll lose to his bullshit imbalanced build that ANet hasn't managed to fix. That's not fun. That's the opposite of fun. That's boring. That is what makes players leave. All ANet has to do is add risk back into the gameplay - make playing palm strike wrong punish the assassin. Make wounding strike have a severe downside (like you cause DW to yourself if unenchanted). Risk is what made vanilla GW interesting. Everything they've done since then has driven farther and farther away from risk-and-reward gameplay and replaced it with retard-buttonmash gameplay, and that simply is not fun.
 * Yes, I said "some" very deliberately. Most of the community is bad at balance. Most of the community on this wiki doesn't play the game on a serious enough level to begin to understand balance, so they're pretty much out of the running automatically. Even among those who do play competitive Guild Wars, however, true knowledge of game balance and the ability to detect underlying issues with specific mechanics is rare. I'm not saying the community should balance Guild Wars - I'm saying the few that can, should. - Auron 15:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I missed the word 'some'. Misery  15:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted to running RC, and apparently the pressure (from LC and co) is actually bearable now. Although there is the possibility that we are just up against bad teams, currently, it looks like we face less trouble running RC than we would pre LC nerf.Pika Fan 15:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People won't get sad when you nerf something in GW, as long as you're doing it right. Anet is doing it wrong ("hey this skill is broken in pvp so let's nerf its pve version too.  This skill is weak in pve so let's make it godly in both pvp and pve" etc).  I think once arenanet realizes they have a pvp/e split, we will start seeing better, more well-thought-out changes.
 * Arenanet, in their infinite wisdom, balanced pvp around casual, pve grindwhores instead of around competitive pvpers, and they've continued that trend for years. That's the main reason behind pvp being full of terrible players and skill balances being so laughable.
 * Please stop saying "omg if u nerf sway evry1 will quitzzors." What happened the last time <insert steam or blizzard game here> was balanced? More people played. ~Shard [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sadly, I feel, Arenanet hasn't granted themselves enough to do what is necessary for balance or a challenging environment in both PvE or PvP. PvP for me is as copy and paste as PvE - I constantly wait PvP matches and see lots of people running the same builds, almost exactly.  Sometimes I'm lucky and see something new, and that's always exciting to watch.  With PvE, it's the same.
 * With the PvE and PvP skill split they've got they could do so much more, but they've got a part-time Live Team (after last months 'content' update and this months skill update no one can tell me they're full time) with part timers from Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars is all Arenanet has to bank on right now (Guild Wars 2 is nothing right now to players who have absolutely nothing when it comes to it) and instead of taking a solid look at everything and catering to both PvE and PvP they're just doing ... well, the last two updates.  Re-hashes of all the old stuff and what I choose to call a 'half-assed' attempted at a skill update.  There's always a few things Arenanet can do, but they miss when it comes to bringing it all together.  000.00.00.00 01:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The big problem is that Anet seems to believe that they can balance PvP (which they have failed to do for 4 years). Anyone with common sense would stop throwing time and money away on failed PvP balance and turn Build Wars into a PvE game. I know I'm going to receive a lot of flaming for this but if one part of the game is guaranteed to fail at least save the other parts.02:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * @ 00000000000000000000000 I agree. I hate their "omg we're so overworked so don't expect too many changes" excuse because honestly, it takes about five minutes of every day to find out what the meta is. It takes about 30 minutes to sit down, obs a few matches, and watch what skills are obliterating everything else. Oh, that dervish just killed someone with two swings? Hm, that's a problem. Oh, that assassin has three dual attacks in his chain? Hm, that's a problem. Those are problems that everyone agrees are problems. The stuff like "is aegis too good" is really subjective, and I've seen arguments go both ways on it, but when everyone agrees that lingering curse is stupidly overpowered, it needs to be nerfed, and it needs to be nerfed hard. That is where ANet's failed. They've taken their timid "don't want to change too much" mindset and applied it in all the wrong places.
 * @ anon - i don't care what they do, as long as they make it not suck. If they went balls-deep PvE stuff I wouldn't mind, as long as they made it fun and engaging. They've had fun and engaging PvP in the past, and going back to that isn't out of reach, but the game has never really had engaging PvE ever, and making it that way would require nerfing shadow form and all the other crutches for retards. Since that isn't going to happen, I'd like them to spend at least a little time adding content to the game, preferably on the PvP side but if they did it at all I'd be happier :/ - Auron  04:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The good thing about PvE is that you can make it as challenging as you want. I defy you to beat the Foundry of Failed Creations or Ebony Citadel in Hard Mode, no LB title, no PvE skills, Prophecies-only skills, no consumables (final destination, etc.).  I'm sure somebody out there could do it, but I certainly couldn't.  You can't do that in PvP -- if you don't run the same unflinchingly retarded gimmick build everyone else is, if you don't exploit the meta, if you don't run bars that could be used effectively by a chimp with a keyboard stuck in his teeth while he was busy afking, you will not win (unless your opponents are cock-gobbling lobotomy survivors).  I can make PvE entertaining by enforcing unrealistic handicaps upon myself (DEFEAT THE SEARING FLAMES BOSS USING FLARE), but I've given up on serious PvP because I got tired of pushing myself to my limit to be effective and still getting beaten by an epileptic retard smacking the palm strike button with his dick in the throes of orgasm because legitimate builds do not work.  I play starcraft, pre-Urza Magic, and sometimes pong when I want competitive PvP.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 07:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yay!
Thanks! <font color="#DD0000">Misery  06:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aside from Aegis (just look at it), this is/was an awesome update. Thanks ANet peoplez. /bow Mediggo 07:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I hated blockwebs and Aegis chains, so I even like the Aegis change ^_____^ <font color="#DD0000">Misery  08:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's all fine by me... tho the WE in PvP will downgreade alot of innovative warrior builds (broken) back to some stock standards... but its all cool MrPaladin talk 12:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * agreed. the WE change is really the only one that makes me kinda sad...but i guess that's the price for balance. Glad they didn't change it in PvE (yet) tho.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

NERF WARS
LOL FUN GAME EVERYTHING IS SO NERFED YOU CAN ONLY PLAY LIKE 5 BUILDS GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

discuss. --TimeToGetIntense 07:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If one build replaces all builds including more fun and skill-req something is wrong Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  07:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Who cares about skill req or not. GW desperately needs more viable content. Well the game is dead anyway. I only care because sometimes I want to RA. --TimeToGetIntense 07:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I hate people who say that the game is dead when it clearly is not. I think the April update proved this. Neither the devs nor the players are discontinuing GW... Besides, plenty of builds are viable, it's just that people prefer the "meta" and thus, there will always be just a few "viable" builds, because the meta is always limited to no more than 5 or so builds per profession, and when those are nerfed you get those meta-only players going "WTF!?!? ALL MAI BUILDS GOTZ NURFED!" etc. etc. with their all caps and incorrect spelling. Getting tired of it myself. So sorry Anet is keeping with what they said they'd do - provide balance to the game *which is something that will be always hard and continuous as it can never be truly balanced due to the "meta"-lovers.) -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 07:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People play builds that win. Winners don't give a fuck if it's meta or not tbh. The high level players play the meta because the game is imbalanced, NOT because of personal preference. Do you actually think people get to the top of the ladder by playing with their prefered builds? No, they do it by playing what is most imbalanced. --TimeToGetIntense 08:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * While it could have been said with a good bit more finnesse. i aggree with the above poster. meta is meta because... well... its meta... if one wishes to be successful in a competion one must be the best in that competion. is it so wrong to want to win?
 * You two missed the point completely. What I meant is that there are other options, many that work just as well, or a little less as good (but still very effective), as the meta. You two made it sound like I hated meta because they are all powerful builds. Wrong, I dislike the meta because people mostly focus on those and don't bother to be creative and see what else works. Yes, builds are used because of their effectiveness - which means they are not balanced properly (at least in many cases), but that doesn't mean that there are not any just as effective builds out there, which there are and people using those get tossed aside because it is not meta. That was my point, though I don't think I really summarized it. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 09:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me put it this way MOAR DOMMAGE is not_fucking_fun_to_play.The goal of a game is to have fun. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  10:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes but the problem is the players, not ANet. In fact recently, their changes have made multiple similar builds reasonably equally viable. However, if you go to HA, for example, and try to roll up an interesting, fun-to-play, but non-meta build, it'll probably take you a couple of hours from starting, getting people, people leaving, getting more, actually getting in, losing to the OP meta munchkins, and having half (or more) of your team ragequit. I should know. Building a balanced team without guild support is annoying enough. 81.107.210.147 11:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Paragons will return with Defensive Anthem in PvP. Nerfing Balancing key skills of meta builds just means that there will be more viable options available. Mediggo 11:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Be bold --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 14:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tried this build. Rocks so hard! I really suggest it for RA, my team loved it! Baurus Ironballs 14:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha! I sure "lol'd". Been there since the very beginning, and still I can see some (from time to time) use the best combination of them all; "frenzy>healsig" - an absolute classic! -- Titus The Third [[Image:User titus the third.png| ]] 23:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

(reset) The only thing that makes this build better is if you run W/Mo with 12 Tactics and 12 Healing Prayers. You can add Mending and you're unstoppable! Seriously I tried it and it's pro. Baurus Ironballs 00:42, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem is you take too much damage. You need to get Echo on there too so Mending heals you enough but that means you gotta go W/Mo/Me which you can't. Shame. 81.107.210.147 11:09, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You could substitute Echo for Healing Breeze. Just make sure you keep it maintained. Don't worry about attack skills, either. Your auto-attack damage will be pro if you maintain Frenzy.

Thank me later. Baurus Ironballs 01:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is the player ? Are you kidding me ? So Anet can introduce any imba skill they want and the average player should be aware of the fact that they actually get worse by using it in a even more broken build ? It IS anets faul for introducing these skills and anet happens to be the only ones that can actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.png|21x21px]] *panda*  05:35, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Super Ele Heal!!
Elemental Attunement(or Ether Renewal)

Air Attunement

Aura of Restoration

Elemental Lord

Glyph of Restoration(8 recharge)

Lightning Hammer

Weapon Set = 20%HSR 20%HCT Air Magic Wand and Focus

Attribute = 15 Energy Storage, rest Air Magic

Do:Cast EA AA AoR EL GoR

Cast LH(25e 2c 8r)

Results:(All Calculations Exclude +4 pips of Energy Regeneration)

Energy Regain from EA = 12(it rounds 12.5 down)

[Ether Renewal gives 16e and 80hp but cannot be maintained permanently without Glyph of Swiftness and 20% Enchant Weapon Mod]

Energy Regain from AA = 7(it rounds 7.5 down) +1 = 8

Energy Regain from AoR = 1

Energy Regain from EL = 1

Total Energy Cost of LH = 3

Amount Healed from AoR = 125

Amount Healed from EL = 75

Amount Healed from Glyph = 105 + 100 = 205

Total Amount Healed = 125 + 75 + 205 = 405

Casting time of LH = 0.5 to 2s(depending on activation of wand and focus)

Recharge time of LH = 1 to 4(depending on activation of wand and focus)

+4 Energy Regeneration should cover 3e cost(usually)

An AoE that does BIG damage and 25% Armor Penetration cast at 0.5-2s and recharges at 1-4s, which costs 3e and Heals you for 200. In Addition, every 8s(recharge of Glyph) you are healed for 405 twice(Yo! Whoever, you said Word of Healing/Healer's Noob/Boon Signet/Infuse Health/Imbue Health/Spirit Transfer/Spirit Bond are the best heals? Lookie here! I Smell new 600 Ele soon).

Note: Feel free to use with Fire Magic(Rodgort's Invocation) or whatever. Add Maintained Enchantments cast by a hero(if you're using Ether Renewal).
 * Oh, so you waste your entire bar to heal yourself when a monk easily does that for you instead of doing damage, oh ok, that's REALLYYY smart...Pika Fan 07:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow noob Pikachu Fan never heard of solo/duo farming. All you might need is a monk with Protective Spirit/Bond or whatever and LH will do the damage at 3e cost? Ever Heard of 600-Smite Pikachu?
 * Your point being? Considering that prot spirit + spirit bond + soa > all these crap. Ever heard of using brains anon?Pika Fan 08:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Beyond that anon user, before calling someone else a noob, could you maybe enlighten us as to when LH became an AoE, and also learn how weapon mods work? AoE means "area of affect", ie, you affect all the enemies in an area. LH is single target, not AoE. Now for your second noob mistake, LH has a 4 second recharge time, having a HSR mod on both wand and focus doesn't mean the recharge time can be reduced to 1. It means the game checks to see if the HSR on your wand triggers first. If it does, the skill recharge at 2 seconds, and that's that. If the mod on your wand doesn't trigger, it THEN checks to see if the mod on your focus triggers, giving you a second chance to halve the recharge time. It doesn't cut it in half, then cut it in half again. Same with HCT. It checks the wand first, if the mod triggers, the spell casts at 1 sec, not 2, and the mod on the focus isn't checked. If the mod on the wand doesn't halve the cast time, it then checks to see if the casting time is halved from the mod on the focus. So yeah, good luck farming with that build dude, you have 1 attack, that hits 1 target, that you can use every 3-6 seconds. Oh yeah, totally gonna be all the rage.
 * You are wrong too. All mods are always checked. So the chances that HSR/HCT triggers go up. Look at this. CC 11:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Urge to destroy section rising. Mediggo 11:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You are half-wrong. He's talking about recharge, then cast time, and thus he's half-right.Pika Fan 13:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Children, behave or I am taking your video games away for a week.

Ray Of Judgement
look i know its probably not hugely popular in RA or HA or something. but in JQ/FA/AB ray of judgement is MASSIVLY overpowered and is totally breaking these respective faction battles. i reallize that "smiting" needs to have SOME use and i respect RoJ in its current status. as it is it is a completely vaible SKILL. however. the fact that AI does NOT recognize it as Damage over time or AoE spells makes this skill broken. please someone explain to me why monks are allowed to be better nukers than elementalists? its really not right. id like for the AI to be fixed with this skill. ASAP. in JQ at the very least. oh and before we have an uproar of this as well someone might wanna think about the whole "perma obby flesh in pvp" thing. thhaaatttss goonna get REALLY annoying REALLY fast. and if your an ele and you havent discovered perma obby flesh plz /uninstall life. plzkthxbai. :D anyone else getting upset over the massive OP-ness of RoJ?
 * sorry, but I have to disagree here, as there are a lot of AoE skills the NPCs dont run from in JQ and other PvP things, just that it isnt as noticeable as RoJ. I could go in and spam SW and Barrage/Volley, and they wont move, and there are others they wont move for. maybe just make more resilient NPCs instead Lynx Raven Raide 09:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a difference, still. With SW/Barrage/Volley, you still have to stand there and spam it, and while you're doing that, you're not doing anything else. A RoJ monk can fire off his RoJ then immediately start heading to the next shrine, or run off and heal a carrier, or run over and heal the NPCs that you're spamming against...
 * They won't scatter from Savannah Heat or almost any other dotaoe either. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 10:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

NPCs only scatter if they get hit by 2 dotaoe spells at one time. Don't believe? Try using only SH on the NPCs and see whether they kite that.Pika Fan 10:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I *have* tried hitting them with only SH(admittedly it wasn't by choice, it was more cause I got killed before I cast anything else)...they still scattered:-/

How about not making every shrine with NPCs in the game mutually adjacent? How about a mix of mutually adjacent shrines and more spread out shrines? Also, how about more melee shrine NPCs? Why not have para and derv shrines in the Factions pvp arenas? These are all viable options to make more builds viable for these areas. 76.84.34.210 14:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Easier, increase the agro range of the npc's and give em some interrupts... alot harder to cap solo and by single skills... the extended agro range will cause em to spread out... It wont fix the problem of enemys using RoJ on my henchies in PvE but hey I can flag them MrPaladin talk 14:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * RoJ is really the only thing that smiters have going for them. After yesterday's update and the increased CD on Castigation Signet, I switched to a healing monk for the first time. Smiters are hurting enough as it is... LEAVE RoJ ALONE! (Although it is a little infuriating that NPCs don't scatter) Baurus Ironballs 14:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * no way. a single "breach all gates with one skill within seconds no matter what profession you are"-skill just ain't right.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am referring to FA ofc.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Smiting Prayers has plenty of stupid OP skills going for it. RoJ was overpowered against NPCs, yes, but no more so than any other anti-NPC skills.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 17:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Paras and dervs are part of Nightfall, wtf would they be doing in the middle of Factions? Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 19:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * And I quote:


 * I have played the monk profession, both in PvE and PvE, for several years now - and though I do enjoy that the possibility to deal damage exist, I sure as hell don't rely on it!
 * I really do not like to see damage dealing monks in PvP! ..and not in PvE ('least not FA/JQ/AB) for that matter. (<"I-made-a-joke-lol" - FA/JQ/AB may not be PvE, but it sure feels like it way too often!).
 * Anyway, back on track, in my opinion; RoJ is way too overpowered. Not if you want to balance all professions equally, but doing that is in my opinion ridiculous; then you might as well just have one single profession instead!
 * Monks that become better nukers than elementalists - elementalists that become a better ally support than ritualists - and so on; are all big NO-NO cases in my book! One concern is balance, but we must also see that a team consist of several different roles; each covering their own specific area, and hence, making such a team, complete.


 * I just got caught up in the discussion above and had to throw in a word, but I do not wish anything at all from AN. For we humans seldom know our own good when wishing wishing wishing around all the time. I am satisfied with the total of what AN has given, and still gives me - and I think they've done a hell of a good job; delivering a one-time-pay game that in no way should be seen down upon. And to all the add-on/change-pack features now recently added; I'll more than gladly spend a few on these things, even though I don't need them - and even though some of these may seem "over-priced" - because I respect that AN have to run a business, and because I think that they REALLY deserve my full support.


 * Every dollar I've spent on Guild Wars is a dollar well spent counting the many joyful hours GW has given me! -- Titus The Third [[Image:User titus the third.png| ]] 00:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That is your opinion... And I have to disagree with it. Sorry, but I am sick of people pigeon-holing classes, saying this one should only do this, this one should only do that. I have started using a smite monk and am loving using it. I do have RoJ on my build, but for me it is a 'pull out when need' skill, unlike others who are using it as a crutch. For AoE, yeah, it is good, but any human opponent can just run out of it, and recharge times for the skills needed, specifically Arcane Echo and RoJ itself still take a bit. It can be like SF where when it works, it works well, but when it doesn't you can be in trouble. Perhaps instead of complaining X skill is overpowered and Y skill should be buffed, you should work out better skills to either counteract or improve your build. Lynx Raven Raide 01:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, pigeonholing is lame. That's one thing WoW has that tops GW, their classes can fulfill multiple roles, and no one class is the be all, end all for a certain role. You play a priest? Sure, you can be a main healer easily. Or you can spec shadow, and be an EFFECTIVE damage dealer. You can roll yourself up a druid, and be a bear form tank, a cat form melee burst DPS, a moonkin damage dealing caster, or go resto and heal as well as a priest. Or make you a pally, go holy, and boom, you got you a healing class. Or maybe you don't like healing, you like keeping people alive by keeping monsters off them in the first place, so go protection, and look, now you're a full on tank. Or maybe you just wanna kill shit, and not worry about watching everybody else's life bars or keeping monster aggro on you. Well, in that case, go Retribution and watch your damage numbers soar.
 * I'm sorry, but classes really should have separate roles. Gameplay becomes devolved and degenerate if your monks can DPS as much as you warrior, your warrior can nuke like elementalists, and your elementalists can condi-spread/interrupt like rangers. You make a character a specific class because your play style favors its purpose, not because you want that sexy, skin showing armor. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 01:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree. You should be able to play your char how you want. If you want separate classes, then why have primary and secondary professions? One of the beauties of this game is the blending of abilities and finding out what is best for you. If you want everything to be so defined and in the box, stick to ChessLynx Raven Raide 02:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Secondary classes exist as to provide some synergy or utility (see Shock Axe Warrior and Standard Condi-spread R/Mo respectively). Secondary classes aren't there to provide one character the capacity to fill all roles, but to strengthen what your profession does best. This is why you don't get PAs of your secondary class. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 05:52, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as "classes should have seperate roles", I'm simply mention that many other more successful games say otherwise. Classes should be able to fulfill multiple roles, period. Maybe not all at once(as I mentioned above in regards to WoW, if your paladin is setup as Ret he's not gonna be tanking, and he's not gonna be a healer in a Prot setup, but he has the option of setting up to serve whichever purpose) but they SHOULD have the option of doing more than one thing, because variety is a GOOD thing, not a bad one. Otherwise, why even give names to classes, why not just say when you create a character you can be "nuker, healer, condiontion spreader", etc?
 * Riddle: So that is why you can effectively make a RoJer with a Mes Primary? You only lose one attribute group by having a profession as secondary, and while it can be hurtful in some cases (losing mysticism for Dervs, especially if you want to use the Avatars) in others it means nothing as you can get quite effective skills in other attribute areas. I agree with the Anon poster above me, most MMOs these days offer a variety when it comes to creating your character, and the days of 'This should only do this' are just stuck in the minds of users who cant move on. Lynx Raven Raide 20:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Separate roles != single role for each --66.190.15.232 02:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I also wanna clarify something I said above that was apparently misunderstood-just cause a class should be able to fulfill multiple roles doesn't mean every class should fulfill EVERY role. It was said a warrior shouldn't be nuking like an ele and eles shouldn't be interrupting like rangers. That's fine, but that's also a non-sequitur, and has nothing to do with a class not being limited to a single role. Just because a class can play multiple roles doesn't mean each class can fulfill every role, simply that each class should not be limited to just playing one SINGLE role. Going back to the WoW example, a paladin can heal, tank, or melee DPS, but he will never be a ranged damage dealer or a strong AoE class. Likewise, a priest can heal or be ranged damage, but no matter what setup he runs, a priest isn't gonna be doing the tanking or running up and hacking away at enemies in melee combat. And likewise no matter what talent setup or gear selection he brings, a death knight or rogue isn't gonna be healing your party. All those classes can play multiple roles, but all of them have roles they can't play, too, just like nobody ever said eles should be master interrupters, just that eles should be able to do more than JUST nuke(which they can, currently).
 * You have 8+ charakter slots. If you can't decide what role you want to play in a team, then create different characters. But imo setting boundaries to the role each class can fullfill is a good choice. I remember the times of the unnerfed ursan and saw melee tanking monks and eles running past my warr. No thanks. I created my warr for a certain reason. And so I did with my monk. I don't expect A-net to decide in what form class role equality comes to the game. People will always QQ that there is something they can't do as good as others. I prefer it strict and clear. Actually that is something I really like about GW...and why i never played WoW so far.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 10:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, let's get rid of classes period then, cause according to you, there's no point to them. Instead of having a monk, ele, ranger, etc, we have have healer, nuker, interrupter, and so on. Don't like that role? Go play something else. Let's all limit ourselves like that, it's so fun!
 * Wellll, that's why some love to play WoW and some love to play GW. I can respect both, but I wouldn't want GW to become a(nother) WoW clone. And still there are the secondary professions to make characters more wide-ranged. As a warr I can be a tank, runner or damagedealer (just an example!), but I will NEVER be a skilled caster. Period. And that is perfectly fine with me. I have caster professions to chosse from for that, accepting they will never be good in hand-to-hand combat. And why would I create a sword wielding mesmer? Just because of the looks? If so, be prepared to live with the downsides and stop QQ about it.... By the way, this discussion was once about nerfing RoJ. Furthermore: please sign your comments, Anon.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 13:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, look what I started.. :P The funny thing is; I didn't really mean "one profession, ONE role!", as many seem to have read from my text. What I meant, and what many others here seem to agree with as well, is "professions, each with its own area of focus". I love the opportunity Guild Wars offers to play multiple roles; as a monk you can both tank, heal, prot and bond or buff (with smiting prayers enchantments). As a elementalist you can be a runner, a tank, a nuker. As a warrior you can be a tank, a high-dps player.. and so on.. but what you can't do - and what I meant you shouldn't be able to do either - is to be able to play every role in one profession, and not be able to play roles which is considered to be way outside your own professions area of focus (I hope that made sense) - and I feel that RoJ is dangerously close to crossing this "line". In my opinion "nuking" is far away from the monks area of focus - and the manuscripts even say that damage is not the monks strength. When that's said; I guess that the "divine anger" is a powerful ally, though I just personally choose to follow the teachings of Dwayna, and not the ones of Baltazhar. Make love, not war, peace, out! :) -- Titus The Third [[Image:User titus the third.png| ]] 14:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And that is what I totally agree with ^^   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 15:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that the original idea of GW was to find an effective combination of 8 skills from both primary and secondary class (NOT hamstorm). However, that's where words primary and secondary come to play... A Warrior can never be a good mage/nuker like the Elementalist primary, but can still utilize spellsl ike Grasping Earth, Shock, Conjure spells and certain other things with slight gimmickry. Any profession could use Monk as a secondary for survivability. The best secondary profession for Monks was most likely Mesmer, to gain energy management skills like Mantra of Recall and Channeling from Inspiration, but they could also use Warrior stances and even Elementalist skills (GoLE). Ever since Factions came out, the primary attributes have become more and more powerful for caster professions, which was somewhat of a mistake in my opinion. The reason why Necromancers didn't have Soul Reaping skills was because SR was OP from the very beginning, and it still is, thanks to skills like Foul Feast and Signet of Lost Souls.
 * The point of primary/secondary profession system was to provice some depth and diversity into classic "Warriors tank, mages nuke, clerics heal" class system by allowing more options, not completely different party roles. Mediggo 06:42, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So what it comes to RoJ, it's complete rape of Smiting Prayers, and I completely go with Titus' quote from above. Mediggo 06:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Spiders
Have existed Spiders been modified to conform with the new sizes? <font color="Black">Lyra' <font color="Maroon">Valo'  14:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't confirm it atm, but when i checked last night, my spider was much bigger. 75.63.104.210 14:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

What were the Dishonorable changes?
Through all the bitching, I couldn't catch anything about the Dishonorable changes. How was it changed? --''' <font color="Black">Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 16:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Something about getting dishonourable points for not moving or something. It's unclear, but I have heard minor complaints about it being bugged. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  16:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess we will have to experience ingame. whatsoever i am happy that leeching in FA and JQ will hurt some more now...hopefully.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 16:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully they'll get rid of the bots too. -- <font color="Black">Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  16:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm just glad I won't get Dishonorable 3 times a day for doing what Anet tells me to at the start of every game reporting leeches anymore. -- <font color="Black">Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  16:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Developers Notes
There werent any for this update? RadaArashi 16:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because they have no idea what they are doing. Steam, Aegis and WoH are good examples of that. Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk 21:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In a week. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 22:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because they have no idea what they are doing.
 * That didn't stop them from posting the last skill-based developer update. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * They gave up trying Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk 20:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because there's no way to justify the nerfs to the few remaining viable bow attacks.96.233.8.52 18:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Anet's decided rangers aren't supposed to have viable bow attacks. You're supposed to be a condition whore and interrupter, nothing more:-/
 * Oh yeah, because Rangers totally use bows anyway. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 06:07, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, what Jette is saying is that Expertise is very viable and you are not restricted to bow attacks only. If bow damage fails, only playing "condition whore and interrupter, nothing more:-/ ", you can rely on this-> totally use bows. I think that's their goal, if you want damage you want totally use bows.--ShadowFog 06:26, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

PnH & Mirror of Ice PvP Only?
Why couldn't PnH and Mirror of Ice updates be for PvP only? Keep the PvE the same, just use this update for PvP. 75.79.165.73 17:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Both of those skills were pretty bad in PvE anyway. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  17:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That is never a valid excuse for nerfing skills. If a skill is bad, why nerf it? It just means less skills to use.

Welcome to the meta
Needling Shot, Glyph of Renewal. Also, what a drastic meta shift. I bet everyone goes physical due to the vacuum that Aegis leaving has caused. Benjammn311 18:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Defensive Anthem will probably take over part of it. Also because of the nerf to Foul Feast running a Blinding Surge elementalist is going to be more effective. 85.225.61.189 18:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ♪ Welcome to the new meta &mdash; same as the old meta ... ♫. (sorry, jumped into my head) --Star Weaver 21:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh Goody... I'd ask when they'll nerf that PoS again but IIRC, it was actually buffed last time or something stupid... The Least they do is nerf Skele Ele's a bit, Orr != Sparta. I'm sick of them being so overpowered. -- ilr  22:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Rangers are officially the same as Mesmers with a few slight differences:


 * Rangers can spam interrupts better and cheaper
 * Rangers inflict conditions that are RC food. Mesmer hexes inflict more degen and you need PnH to stop hexway, and good luck with that because of teh n3rf.
 * Rangers can be blocked and blinded.
 * Rangers have more armor and worse self healing (see recent buff to Ether Feast if you don't believe me)
 * Rangers do less direct damage than Mesmers.
 * Rangers have lower energy costs but Mesmers have energy management skills so they are equal in terms of energy.
 * 2nd point: Poisoning the whole team is part of the ranger's job description, that's just general pressure. Who cares if it's RC food, if the monk is continually RCing the whole team then he needs to die.
 * Last point: Passive Energy Management is always > wasting your skill slots on e-management. Arguing otherwise just shows ignorance.
 * Everything else: Yeah, pretty much. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 00:25, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Atrophy says hai.72.71.226.59 13:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Having more skill slots says hai. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 19:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So does that mean there was never any point to me rolling a Mez/R due to redundnacy?? ...that sux b/c Already dressed 'er up in Norn/EliteNoble stuff and it took a while for me to get! -- ilr  03:39, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * BM VoR o.O --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 19:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * WTF? Beast Mauling?? Is that even the right acronym?  I totally fail to see how that would synergize with Visions. -- ilr  20:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Beat Mastery is what I think (s)he meant. Or bowel movement. Pretty much the same thing in GW. Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:37, 18 May 2009
 * Blackout R/Me is a powerful build. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  20:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That build sucks, but actually it used to be good before the power creep.
 * With Magebane? Karate   Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:43, 18 May 2009
 * Blackout trashes the casters skills too.
 * I said powerful, not good. And KJ, it's a standard ranger template with Blackout and sometimes Arcane Larceny. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  15:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

After this update
I would like to introduce the phrase "boont" - the fast, easy way to mean Smiter's Boon'd. Boont. It's what's for dinner. --''' <font color="Black">Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 01:09, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (It saves the time/trouble of typing the apostrophe and the infinitely harder to reach "d" key in "boon'd".) -- <font color="Black">Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  01:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But if you're typing with your hands on the home row, D is easier to reach than T. o_O -- ★ KOKUOU ★ 02:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be Doom'd. :P That's easier to reach than both Boon'd and Boont. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 07:06, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, home row. Seriously, though, it worries me how many skills have been so badly nerfed. It's not just Smiter's Boon, there's FGJ too and now SoH, and though I don't really count WE and MoI (they're bad now but not totally useless like Boon and FGJ), they're not in a great state either. Plus all the skills with the flat disabling (i.e. the other SoH, the other MoI and HC). Maybe they just don't like certain skill abbreviations? 81.107.210.147 11:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 25/90. 10-key FTW.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  06:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Amount of Spectral Vaettir in HM have been cut in half
In southern Jaga Moraine where ye lovely Glacial Stones drop. T_T Paddymew 06:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, i think you just have a quest completed/not completed. I still see the same amount. -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 07:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm that's weird... Especially since my brother's sin, which doesn't have any quest in Jaga Moraine, also only has 32/26 spawns. And a few days ago, there were 60 of them when I ran there! This is getting weird... Paddymew 07:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Their were definitely 60 of them pre update. I haven't checked post update. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 11:21, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Somebody please confirm if there are still 60 Vaettirs in HM... 68.193.113.198
 * There are, it hurts the blood washers though. <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  03:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

PvE Ele+Rit
Elemental Lord gets a nice buff, but Intensity is still completely obsolete. The Summon Spirits buff is nice for the "spam shooty-spirits and just keep teleporting and refreshing them" build, but doesn't exactly help balance the rest of the class's abilities. I told myself I'd come back and play more often if the next skill update did something cool with my 2 favorite classes, and I'm still waiting. I want to be able to play a PvE-viable chaneller, resto, etc. without feeling like I could be being more useful to my team simply by setting up a bunch of turrets and standing around. Please take useless skills and do something creative with them as both a buff and to add more variety to the game. Bubbinska 13:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Summon spirits is also great with Union, Agony, Displacement, Shelter, Earthbind, and Rejuvination. PvE-viable channeler? I got GWAMM doing channeling pretty much the whole way. Resto is as good as a monk if you coordinate with the other healer in your party, and is full of utility. 76.84.34.210 14:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's see how anet is going to buff intensity next: For x seconds, your spells deal x% more damage. For every x ranks in estorage, you gain 1 energy casting a spell......Pika Fan 15:25, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see why they just don't make pve skills broken to the level where it becomes funny to use them. It's obvious they don't care about how broken pve gets.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:44, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We will be happy to know how you did it mr.ip so if you can write it / pm me in game ill be glad --Ritualist-tango-icon-200.png Requiem  04:37, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Shard, you forgot imbagons with unlimited adrenaline in a spike skill
 * Oya, how about for 6 seconds every 25 seconds per monk on your team, your party can't die. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nowai, because "%d damage on already broken weapons\n", ERROR PARSING INT-OUT OF BOUNDS is bad for the game.
 * /thread --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 04:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That reminds me of the time I used Inferno at 21 fire magic on a Grasp of Chaos with... oh, what was it now... this, this, and this. I think I broke the game.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Damage overflow! Mediggo 06:43, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Look at me I can spam skill links. R I Cul Yet? 68.193.113.198

Thank you
For (sort of) fixing the dead game. Frosty 15:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * first positive comment evear 174.131.116.10 19:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably the last one, too. Baurus Ironballs 22:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Anet does do things right once in a while. With these nerfs, they're bringing back a lot of classic templates (I even saw someone with Crippling Shot on obs mode). GvGs will be more about positioning, splits, and conserving resources again, rather than running to the stand and bashing each other for two mintues until one team wipes. Albrect Karew 22:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With my limitless authority I declare this section as an offical 2009/05/14 update thankyou section to ANet. Amen. Mediggo 05:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * whoru152.226.7.213 07:40, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe I said yay several sections earlier. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  08:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmed ;)   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 13:08, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * low blow still sucks--Relyk 06:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I will attempt to put on my best careface for you Relyk. <font color="#DD0000">Misery  06:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I quite love synergy of the chain Brawling Headbutt-->Low Blow-->Body Blow. Two unblockable touch skills, KD, two konditions. Just need something like Battle Rage or To the Limit!. Might not be most effective, but fun to play. And I am here for the fun ^^   ~ D  ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 10:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't see this much-talked-about synergy between Low Blow and B. Headbutt. They are both skills. You do not gain that single strike of adrenaline (which is needed to continue chain) from using skills. UNLESS you're using "To The Limit!" BETWEEN those two touch skills, but that would be awkward and ineffective s hell. Mediggo 12:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you already have the 7 adren vor b headbutt, then why shouldn't you have the 6 for low blow? besides landing another single hit during the KD of b headbutt shouldn't be that much of a problem especially if you have a stonefist insignia equipped. talking about this, the chain Brawling Headbutt-->Low Blow-->Body Blow-->"You Move Like a Dwarf!"-->Steelfang Slash-->Knee Cutter sounds fun. will have to try that ^^   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 12:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you already have the 7 adren vor b headbutt, then why shouldn't you have the 6 for low blow? <- I think you need to learn the mechanics of adrenaline. But yes, ofc it's going to work with IAS and Stonefist insignia, but you can't use Brawling Headbutt -> Low Blow right away. Also, that combo is trash when you could simply go with Dragon Slash and "Save Yourselves!". Mediggo 14:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * thank you for your kindness ;) as stated above, it's not about effectiveness...it's about fun. and it's quite a similar spike chain as sins use them, which isn't called trashy as far as i know. two guaranteed knockdowns, tons of damage and some annyoing conditions. imo that is not quite the same as dragonslash *shrug* and i do know the mechanics of adrenalin. but in comparison to you i have played and tested that chain and i can tell you, the mentioned adrenalin deficit you were referring to doesn't exist (besides that one single hit you need inbetween).   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 18:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello mediggo, stop being terrible. When you activate an adrenal skill, the adrenaline charged up for that skill is reset to zero. All of your other skills lose one strike (25 units) of adrenaline. However, if the skill was an attack skill and that attack hits, that hit will in most cases reclaim the lost adrenaline. Some attack skills, like Dragon Slash will even regain extra adrenaline if they hit. Pika Fan 04:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

(warning! sarcasm)Thank you!->."Your genius, creativity and commitment to the player should be taught to all future generations of game designers.Thats(Those are) one(many) dedicated client(s).--ShadowFog 03:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * @Pika Fan: I was talking about skills (Brawling Headbutt, Low Blow), not attack skills. I think you should stop being terrible and actually read what other people contribute here. I've played GW for almost four years, I know how adrenaline works, and I don't need to citate wiki to tell you exactly how it does. @Zaishen Dragon: While PvE skills can be fun (I admire Drunken Master in very different way than SY), I enjoy challenging gameplay much more than being able to spam silly knockdown skills (would like to see you headbutting a damn Charr, tbh) of some non-profession attribute involved with random dwarves. @ShadowFog: I lol'd at "If we were in prison together, we'd protect you in the shower." Valve > all. Mediggo 06:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Orly? You charge 7 adrenaline, use brawling headbutt and drop to 6 adrenaline on low blow. By some divine intervention and miracle, low blow has a requirement of 6 adrenaline. I wonder if you can even do basic math. Apparently, playing GW for 4 years haven't taught you basic math. Owait, LIFE teaches you basic math, and common sense. Pika Fan 17:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Er, can a six-adrenaline skill store seven adrenaline? I would think a skill could only hold it's cost in adrenaline, therefore all adrenal skills would be unusable for one strike after activating any of them. This isn't stated either way on the adrenaline page, of course. --Star Weaver 17:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * IAS. Stonefist. I may be wrong on adrenaline since I don't warrior very often, but even my monk chains these two skills easily with frenzy.Pika Fan 17:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, adrenal skills can't store extra adrenaline, I've added more information about the adrenaline charging and storage mechanics to the adrenaline article. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:17, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * why shouldn't i be able to headbutt a "damn charr"?? are they now immune to knockdown with the latest update? besides: in combinatin with Rebel Yell (even more adren) i will headbutt the hell out of these guys ;) and yes, some play a game for the fun and some always need to be the best in something. that's just a matter of taste and i won't start a discussion about that or will be put down by that ironic comment. oh, i will NOT start a discussion whether PvE or PvP is better, more important or "more challenging" like you say. i'll skip that topic ^^   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 07:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I rather wouldn't headbutt anything with sharp teeth, claws or horns. :P Mediggo 08:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I would ^^ For me they are just furry lil kittens that need some serious stroking. But i really hate Afflicted coming close to me. they smell! xD   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 10:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyway you could always use Prot Strike. 86.24.115.34 12:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)