Feedback talk:User/Talamare/Chants and Echoes

Agree, most of them are so broken currently= =-- TeaCat._.  15:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Double agreed most of these are awesome and make me wanna play my paragon again. I especially like teh finales. On a small note, is there a reason none of these are adrenaline based? It seems like a paragon would gain energy in most cases with these 5 energy chants and never run into energy problems (thus always being able to spam skills on recharge mindlessly instead of saving it for teh right moment). Rypofalem 23:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Can someone move this suggestion to - "Chants and Echoes" (no quotes) please -Talamare-   feedback  15:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * done --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 11:56, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Since this is a mass skill suggestion use these to make it easier to discuss specific skills -Talamare-   feedback  15:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Boro is organizing a Paragon Focus Group, check it out! ^_^ --Falconeye 06:01, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * And you are already linked Talamare! Both of you come and see if you can add something either on the feedback page or on it's talkpage. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 09:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Leadership
Anthem of Flame makes me kinda uneasy. Lots of degen for a little energy and fairly maintainable. Higher energy maybe? Rypofalem 23:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * reduced burning duration to 0...2 -Talamare-   feedback  23:59, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Command
Anthem of Guidance: I would like to see the recharge go down a bit on this but understand if you think it would be op. Rypofalem 23:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * yea I thought this would be one of the more dangerous skill to balance, but ill lower recharge to 20 -Talamare-   feedback  00:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Motivation
Aria of Restoration seems like it needs a higher energy cost for so much pressure relief.
 * opps that one was meant to be 10e, typo -Talamare-   feedback  00:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Energizing Chorus basically removes incentive to put as many points into leadership and gives paragons with leadership too much energy. Rypofalem 23:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * reduced energy to 0...3 -Talamare-   feedback  00:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Boro's Ideas
I have come to the same conclusion as you, to convert one-hit effects to effects over time.

the difference between our ideas is that I split the chants to work only if the ally is/is not enchanted.



Functionality: For seconds, non-enchanted allies within an earshot have  health regeneration while not using skills.



Functionality: For seconds, conditions applied to enchanted allies not using skills expire % faster.



Functionality: For 10 seconds, spells cast on non-enchanted allies heal for % more.



Functionality: for seconds, spells cast by non-enchanted allies cost 1 less energy.



Functionality: For seconds, Allies within an earshot are healed for % of the damage they take.

--thats all the difference. Comments and ideas are welcome.

Problem in Concept
The big problem is your suggestion is to create mediocre length benefits that last full duration. We'll see a return of paraway and it will dominate with these suggestions. The reason is simple with several paragons you can maintain dozens of effects forever. If all of your chant suggestions were upkept forever and constantly without end do you think that would be balanced? I believe it wouldn't be. Especially given the ranged nature of spears and the simplicity of target swapping. Your concept would be better if each paragon could only maintain one chant or if chants were like weapon spells and only 1 could affect players, but that's not the situation. ~>Sins  WDB 16:02, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Believe it or not I had a similar thought of only 1 chant can be maintained at a time but I thought too many people would be against it, my other thought was that while chanting they cant attack they do less damage with their attacks... I also didnt add it because I felt it would be instantly rejected -Talamare-   feedback  17:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't base your decisions on what will be accepted. Post what you feel will be balanced and explain why in detail.  What people will accept is usually within paradigm and we really don't need everyone following closed box thinking. ~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 22:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ^^^ Incredible wisdom. Rypofalem 17:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If I feel that the majority would be against a change then I relate to why would they be against it, and then I calculate the value and uses of the suggestions - mainly on this suggestion if we were to limit the amount of chants to 1 per person like weapon spells I think it wouldnt go well - I thought of another mechanic today in which for each chant you are personally keeping up you have -1 energy degen (similar to maintained enchantments)(but this idea isnt solid yet on how to implement it... I know Paraspike/Paraway is a problem but the perfect solution hasnt come to me yet -Talamare-   feedback  18:12, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It really only makes sense that a paragon be able to use one chant effect at a time. And that's only as long they are chanting.  So in terms of lore, it makes sense to make a chant something maintainable.  I'd want it that way honestly.  In terms of penalty for maintain a chant, I don't know what would work.  Maybe an armor penalty or an energy degen penalty, but that's up in the air imo because there are several things that could be done. ~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 18:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually think this would make them much weaker as well leading to griefing (chant stripping). It's an interesting idea nonetheless but if it was applied to PvE Paragons... the class would become unplayable.  No Thanks. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 23:38, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I do like the concept described in this section. Maybe we could have chants last as long as the Paragon does not attack or use any non-Echo skills. I say non-Echo because Echoes are designed to be used with Chants and prohibiting their use would require using two Paragons to coordinate remotely effectively. Using another Chant will end the current one on all allies; Paragons could switch their effects to react to their allies and foes in this way. Need to keep the group from sustaining too much damage when first aggroing a dangerous group? Slap on Defensive Anthem or Ballad of Restoration (or both if you have two Paragons, gods forbid). Once their first wave of powerful skills have been used up (we all know how quickly monsters spam their skills) switch over to Anthem of Envy or Song of Power to drive your offense. It'd be hard to coordinate in PvP, but I think the return (if skills are balanced right) could prove very useful. I think it's an excellent idea, but one which would require fine-tuning, for sure. --Kyoshi 00:05, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I personally enjoy a majority of these ideas. I have loved the idea of the Paragon since inception, but over-nerfing for the sake of PvP has ruined it for PvE. However, I do agree that most of these affects need to be toned down some... especially the ones that prevent damage or heal the entire party. Even as much as 10 +HP/second over ~10 seconds is more than enough for an entire party from a single skill. Perhaps if there were some way of wording this mechanic so that it could scale to less and less healing for each party member affected? (Much like how Rejuvenation scales down?) Thoughts? --Quiesce 23:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I have it. Skill in question:
 * Song of Restoration
 * Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, the next time a party member below 50% health would take damage, that party member is healed health. If a party member was healed in this way, Song of Restoration heals for  less health.
 * Basically this would work much like Shield of Absorption + Angelic Bond (without the major end clause). Example: a Paragon with 15 Motivation uses this on his dying party. (Dying because the Paragon isn't IMBA. Kidding!) The first member to take damage while his/her HP is below 50% gains 180 Health. The very next member to take damage in this same way gains 150 Health, the next 120, next 90, next 60 and so on and so forth. I think it really illustrates the idea of a song or Chant, how it slowly fades... Thoughts?
 * Or how about...
 * Song of Restoration
 * Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, party members gain health every 2 seconds. Whenever a party member receives damage while under Song of Restoration, party members gain  less health.
 * Its a little sloppy, but it kind of adds a Healing Springish effect into the mix of Shield of Absorption + Angelic Bond. --Quiesce 22:52, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, party members gain health every 2 seconds. Whenever a party member receives damage while under Song of Restoration, party members gain  less health.
 * Its a little sloppy, but it kind of adds a Healing Springish effect into the mix of Shield of Absorption + Angelic Bond. --Quiesce 22:52, 11 March 2010 (UTC)