Talk:Nicholas the Traveler/Research

Counts
Shouldn't the Red Iris Flower count be 15? Or am I misreading the table? 128.255.195.88 09:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He's only collected Irises once; the count refers to how many times he asks for each item (not how many he asks for, which would be 3 in this case). Tennessee Ernie Ford 10:22, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well if you're going to do that, then I would recommend a new column next to Quantity titled 'Total' or similar. As players typically identify these as either 5 or 15 now. Flipper 16:00, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Delay Distribution
Can the author please identify the purpose of this table? From the description, I am unclear on it's purpose. My guess is that it tracks the same information as in the "Research Table." (I would also suggest that you drop the "I'm guessing" verbage. Better to present the data to the reader as a fact than to suggest that it is guess-work...) ThundaPunkin 17:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The base idea of this page was copied off of this page, and the intention of that table is to keep statistics of how fast a given location/item repeats again. However I don't think this is needed for this Nicholas, as he changes his location/items far slower but on the other hand has a much wider room for changes (so it will take a while until it repeats..) poke | talk 17:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I certainly wouldn't object to removing that section. I only put it in because of the precedent set by the previous page. It might prove useful in determining if there is a pattern to his spawning. Fenyx 20:14, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is guesswork right now until we get more data points. *shrugs* Fenyx 20:14, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Week Number
Why is the week number starting at 17? Is that just a random number or is there a reason behind it? 68.113.151.226 21:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah nevermind, just counted on the calander, 17th week in the year. 68.113.151.226 21:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's what fell out of the standard time manipulation function. It is in fact supposed to be the week of the year, but that could be a bit confusing. There are two standard variations: weeks that start on Sunday and weeks that start on Monday. I don't know which standard the WIKI uses, but it probably doesn't matter since it would be very odd for the data entry to be delayed until Sunday... --mtew 21:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Week 17 is confusing. The week should start at Week 1, since that is the week the event began. It is also the week players identify this event with. For this event you would want to measure time based on the in-game calendar, not the real world one. Flipper 16:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What information do you get from a stupid number that is related to some old date when it was introduced? poke | talk 16:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That I don't know. But far be it for either of us to make assumptions to the contrary, someone may have plans to use the information to compile a report or something. Which is fine, however my concern is that the information may unecessarily confuse readers by adding 17 weeks to each row. Looking back, if you wanted want to remember the first item that was ever requested by the traveler, you would think of the first week, not the 17th. However if no one can think of a valid use, I vote to remove it altogether. Flipper 18:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, as years go on won't there be multiple Week [given number]s under the "week of the year" system? Also, isn't it redundant to both list the date and the week of the year? - 72[evolved] {U/S/C} - 00:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The Time That He Moves
The webpage expresses some uncertainty about the time that he moves. Is it worth tracking the times of the first reports of his new locations to see if his move time can be established with a greater degree of confidence? Kirbett 12:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed! - I recall him having "gone away" at 8amEST once he got tired of red iris flowers (ie after the first week)


 * He has moved at the same time everytime. Not 8am EST but 11am EST, 1500 UCT. Thats when he will move today.[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 13:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe that several people reported that he disappeared from Regent Valley at 01:30 am Pacific Time. His first re-appearance was around 08:00. (In between, no one was quite sure where he was.) He disappeared from Shiverpeaks around 8 and was re-discovered within 20-30 min. Tennessee Ernie Ford 15:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Edited my time so it was correct. I had the wrong time UCT. Dont know why I made that mistake[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 15:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Reverse Order
As the table grows, readers will have to scroll down further and further to see the most recent item. Therefore I recommed the table be put in reverse order, with the most recent on top. Flipper 16:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You are being obtuse. Click on the date sort order button and it will reverse. --Max 2 17:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok and.. calling others a name serves what purpose? Do you feel superior now? My comment was meant to address other issues as well like browsing from a non-standard browser that may not support scripting, or some mobile devices. But of course you, 'the guy who fancies others as obtuse', already knew that. In the future please refrain from posting your inane tripe again, unless you have something useful to share. Flipper 17:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * NPA both of you. While I will admit that calling someone obtuse is not appropriate, turning around and calling that person (albeit indirectly) inane is no better. Kthx. As for the actual topic at hand, if we list it in reverse-chronological order, I guarantee you someone is going to ask for it to be listed in actual chronological order. --[[Image:User_Timeoffire45_sig.jpg]]  Timeoffire45  20:29, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If someone wants only the most recent item, that information is easily accessible on the main Nicholas the Traveler page or the wiki's front page, neither requiring any scrolling. - Tanetris 20:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I did NOT say YOU were obtuse. I said you were BEING obtuse. I do not follow your contributions enough to know if this particular post is characteristic or not. There is a hostile undertone there that I find annoying. --Max 2 18:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a research page that not all people are interested in anyway. If people want to know about this, they have to deal with the other statistic entries and the fact that tables by default grow on the bottom. poke | talk 00:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

The sorting appears to be alphanumeric, which doesn't reverse as one might like due to the literal month names. Maybe if the week numbers were in front it would solve the reversing issue. The only remaining problem might be single digit week numbers next year. --Ralmon the Gen-- 12:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How would it sort if we went 01, 02 instead of 1, 2 for single digit weeks, as a solution to the possible problem --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 18:50, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My guess is that it would do an alphanum sort on the zero, so that using 01, 02, etc., would probably sort as desired. I see the template was modified, good job, and thanks! --Ralmon the Gen-- 02:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's a vote for reverse the default sort order to newest first please. Cameronl | talk 20:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Simply click on the sort button for the first column... poke | talk 20:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggest column for campaign?
I wondered if it might be useful to see a pattern emerging at a quick "glance" if there was a column included for Campaign placed before the location column. -- Bunny  - Angel talk 12:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I did that right (first time editing a template). Freedom Bound 14:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorta. You rearranged the parameters, so the text on the mainpage says the campaign instead of the explorable zone. --JonTheMon 14:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops! I didn't realize that the main page had that transcluded. Can I fix that, or does it have to be done by a sysop because the page is protected? Freedom Bound 14:42, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The other option is to make the campaign parameter the last parameter. --JonTheMon 14:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's probably easier, so I'll try that. Freedom Bound 14:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, there are a couple of other options to be considered first. --JonTheMon 14:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Next time, please think about it first. There are other things that were depending on that specific order, that need to be adjusted now (actually I was even working on something atm, and wondered why it no longer worked until Jon told me). poke | talk 14:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, like I said, I didn't realize that the template was used for the main page (it only said it was used on the research page, I neglected to check "what links here"). As far as something you were working on, well, I have no idea how I was supposed to know that. Thought I was helping, and it was easy enough to undo / correct the other way, as I offered. Freedom Bound 15:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Changing it REALLY should have been discussed a bit first. An additional parameter really was not needed. The campaign can be gotten from the campaign parameter of the location infobox template invocation of the location using DPL. (Yes, that is a bit complicated...) That would have had the advantage of assuring the correct information was displayed without changing the table entries here. As it stands, 'campaign' is just another piece of information that can be entered incorrectly... --Max 2 16:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware every little change had to be discussed first, and the request for the campaign column was made over a week ago, so I figured if someone had an objection they either would have said something by now, or could revert the grand total of two edits I had to make to add the column. And I have no clue how to use DPL (this was the most complicated edit I've ever made), so that wasn't really an option for me. On your final point, campaign is also one piece of information that can be easily corrected if it's entered incorrectly, so I don't see that as a major concern. It only populates on the research page (pretty sure), so if it's wrong, not many people are going to see it. (Now, the edit I made that screwed up the main page, THAT was noticed within about two minutes! :)) Freedom Bound 16:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well it wasn't a little change. In general, talk to poke first about anything he's done unless you really know what you are doing, and even if you do know what you are doing, it is still a good idea to talk to him for anything but cosmetic changes. (He's chewed my butt more than once... sometimes with good reason.) --Max 2 16:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Couple things: you just happened to pick a very visible template, so that compounds any issues. Also, you were being bold, which isn't a bad thing. Also, it was quickly taken care of, so not a big amount of damage done. Finally, don't let this turn you off of trying to improve things like this; just check and see what all gets affected and ask questions if you don't know. --JonTheMon 17:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not that "every little change ha[s] to be discussed first"; the problem here is that you broke multiple things with your edit, one of that is being the Main Page as probably the most important page here.. And just fyi, the template itself is not used on the Main Page, but the used mechanism requires the template calls on this research page to be in a fixed order, and when there is a parameter added in between, of course it breaks.
 * Also I didn't comment on this topic because I just didn't care; I didn't care if there was a campaign added or not. And something that starts with "I wondered if it might be useful" I generally don't see as a real "request", and you could have answered yourself. poke | talk 17:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delving pretty deep into semantics, whether or not the suggestion was a request or not. My point was that someone found it useful, I agreed, changed it, and was more than willing to fix it once I realized that it broke the main page. I was wrong, but I honestly thought it was just a (relatively) obscure research page, not that it was generating main page content. Lesson learned, and I won't be editing anyone's templates without discussing it with them first. Freedom Bound 18:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Poke: Would you object if I added the DPL code to the template to get the 'campaign' from the location infobox? Once I get that working, I would ask if the campaign parameter should be removed, but that would only happen if the information is pulled from the other source. --Max 2 20:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhm, no I wouldn't like it due to a simple reason. The Main Page indirectly includes this page, so I would like to avoid any unnecessary DPL queries on this page as that could theoretically* slow down the Main Page access (* noticable during times like when Nick changes his location). And I don't see entering one parameter more, or one campaign name per week, as a big problem. It is okay as it is now :) poke | talk 21:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK. You;re the expert on that, but I thought the main page used a different template; one that would not need to do anything with DPL. --Max 2 06:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah the Main Page uses a different template but to get the data it still needs to include this research page. poke | talk 07:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That is what I thought, but does it use the display template from the user page? Specifically, if the template used by the main page did not use DPL while the template referenced directly by the research page did, would the main page reference use DPL? I am under the impression that the main page template reference replaces the template referenced by the research page. If I am mistaken, I really need to correct my misunderstanding. --Max 2 15:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, the template calls are replaced in the output, but technically it still includes the page. poke | talk 15:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm still a little fuzzy on exactly what you are saying. I understand the contents of the /Research page get included, and the replacement template gets used, but is the original template referenced by the research page included as well and, if so, is that original code acted upon? --Max 2 16:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, now I get what you are at; no I don't think code on Template:Nicholas the Traveler research gets executed when the output is generated for the Main Page, so theoretically there could be additional DPL calls in there. However, as I explained before, I really don't think there is need for an automated generation of a simple campaign value. We generally shouldn't use DPL just because we can, especially not for static content. poke | talk 16:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good! We are on the same page. Some DPL code could be added to the research template without messing up the main page, but you still don't think it is a good idea. I don't entirely agree, but I will defer to your opinion. --Max 2 21:21, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Mis-Information
Someone has put in false information. Please fix this. --Ariyen &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.148.31.114 (talk &bull; contribs) at 16:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC).
 * Could you please explain what is wrong? You can also just fix it yourself. poke | talk 07:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It was probably some vandalism he saw which is gone now. --JonTheMon 13:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Region Theory
Either Nicholas is traveling to 52 randomized/predetermined locations each week per year (at which time the cycle is likely to repeat again)... or he is visiting every major region/subregion accessible to players. If organized by continent: The continent of Tyria has 12 distinctive regions (Crystal Desert/Orr Peninsula is technically part of Elona Continent); The continent of Cantha has 4 distinctive regions; And the continent of Elona has 4 distinctive regions (not counting the Realm of Torment since its formally a part of The Mists; why Nicholas would ever want to visit that place is beyond me). Does this theory has any merit? Also, any chance Nicholas would visit The Battle Isles (namely the Zaishen Menagerie Grounds as the logical Explorable area)? --Falconeye 07:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the idea. If true, he's making at least 2 visits/region: Nick has twice visited Vabbi (Behemoth Hides, Sapphire Djinni) and Kaineng City (Juni Berries, Rot Wallow Tusks) (also, 2x to Tarnished Coast if you count his one-day appearance for Krait Skin). The Vabbi appearances also count as two requests for items from the same region.


 * He also has started to repeat regions before visiting them all (if we accept ANet's word that his visits have been going according to plan, Krait skins notwithstanding). The regions missed to date: Jade Sea &amp; Charr Homelands (plus the less likely Ring of Fire, Sorrow's Furnace, Realm of Torment, Gate of Anguish, Depths of Tyria). &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Third week in a row in Prophecies
This is the first time Nicholas has been in one campaign for 3 weeks in a row. --Silver Edge 20:11, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, Nicholas has been in Prophecies for four straight weeks now. --Silver Edge 21:13, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there is no system behind the locations after all.. poke | talk 21:16, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think his passport is expired or something. -- FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 16:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 5 weeks in a row.. this is getting weird. - Reanimated X 17:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just realised, his passpost must've expired as he's hit 5 weeks in Prophecies again, we shall see if he hits 6 this time. (lol, 1 year anniversary from Silver Edge's post)--AP-DarkPortal 02:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Week 28 Gold Crimson Skull Coin
Finding the drop rate excessively low for this trophy. I've only gotten 1 in all my time with Factions.--Factions 08:07, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Nicholas the Traveler. --Silver Edge 09:14, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Week no then date
The week number should not be before the date in the first column, because if you use another column to sort by another field, you cannot then restore the table to the starting form. And no, you shouldn't have to re-load the page to do this, it should be possible without that extra work. 69.183.30.93 14:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)