Talk:Heavy Equipment Pack

How to obtain packs faster
Has anyone figured out the best/fastest way to get a heavy equipment pack yet? i can not see myself spending hundreds of hours in game just to get a 20 slot pack :( no matter how much i need/want them, it is an insane amount of time... T1Cybernetic 19:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think getting this one is pointless, you may as well get 3 large ones for 3 characters since getting one of these for every character is near impossible.(marsc 19:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC))
 * Sit back and wait for the farmers with multiple accounts to farm the darn coins enough to buy & sell packs :-P -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 19:56, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Character slots u mean, i just checked, untradable :(... Then again none of us know what some quests will give us zoin-wise. Theres easy ones, theres hard ones that are worth more
 * If it's untradable shouldn't someone update the notes? 000.00.00.00 19:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The equipment packs are tradeable. The z-coins cannot be traded between accounts; the are meant to be tradeable across chars in the same account (but a known bug prevents them from being placed into storage). The information on the z-coin page (and the equipment pack pages) is correct. Tennessee Ernie Ford 21:31, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * These bags are going to be WAY overpriced in player-to-player trades, we need a fair way to get them for those of us that can't dedicate hours upon hours of zaishen coin farming....seriously, its only a bag :) --Craz1 23:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Enjoy spending hours upon hours farming coins for the new bag as well as spending your money on each extra storage tab (individually). Anet sure knows how to milk us for every dollar we've got as well as simultaneously adding meaningless time-sinks to everything (especially titles). Pretty soon they'll be selling titles for 9.99 and > once money becomes scarse again. LOL GG --Ulterion 01:36, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh snap, the guy ended his own argument! Benjammn311 03:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I farm the Zaishen Combat especially if it's Random Arenas or Team Arena. Than 00:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Pricing
Now I'm no mathematics major, but here's what I figure them to be worth...

This is all based of the cost of a Small Equipment Pack (you can get at any merchant) and Zaishen Coins (in the Great Temple of Balthazar) coverted into Currency.

Zaishen Coins (Based Off Coin Trading Through Rewards)


 * Copper = ~10-G[9.8-G] (Silver Coin[490-G]/50 Copper Coins)


 * Silver = 490-G (Small Equipment Pack[2-P 500-G] - Rewards Fee[50-G])/(5 Silver Coins)


 * Gold = 4-P 950-G (Silver Coin[490-G] x 10 Silver Coins)+(Rewards Fee[50-G])

Equipment Pack


 * Small = 2-P 500-G (Merchant Price)


 * Light = 5-P 50-G (1 Gold Coin + Rewards Fee[100-G])


 * Large = 24-P 850-G (5 Gold Coins + Rewards Fee[100-G])


 * Heavy = 74-P 350-G (15 Gold Coins + Rewards Fee[100-G])

So IMHO, the quickest way would be to trade gold for Zcoins with people who do have the endless hours needed to get them. --XxGRYPHONxX 06:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * A sound theory, if Zcoins were tradeable. Which they arent.--96.225.150.180 07:49, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Due to my recent findings of Zcoins not being tradeable, thank you above... At least those conversions will help you have a base cost for trading for the bags thesmselves.--XxGRYPHONxX 02:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I disagree with these pricings because of how high the cost of the heavy pack is. Just like a value pack of a product, if you spend more, you get a better deal. Few people will be able to hold out all the way to 15 gold for a heavy pack, so I expect that the first few weeks that heavy packs are on the market, they'll be going for upwards of 200k. It's just too tempting for people to spend their coins on other things. -- 70.162.82.247 10:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? I see nothing worthwhile other than the heavy pack, but that's me I guess, maybe other people think summoning stones are important... Misery  10:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Everlasting Boxes of fun and regular nmonk and ritualist tomes make sense, too. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  10:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I will probably use leftovers for elite tomes when I get all the packs I want. Misery  11:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone tried to sell me a 'Large E.Pack' for 50 ectos last night... unfortunately for him. (sarcasim)I didnt just start playing the game yesterday for the first time with my special stock of Ebay'd Ectos.(/sarcasim) Ectos at the time were at 4.6k@trader. so it woulda cost a total of 220-230plat if i was stupid enough to accept the trade. Obviously i would like to jump the que & preferably buy the packs off people instead of spending forever 'farming' for them but 50ectos is a little too much.
 * Plus Id like to add that the 'trade' too place in the American district of GToB. Peace out 78.147.135.150 13:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The one thing that the OP is not taking into account is that due to the Heavy Equipment pack only being originally purchasable through personal grind, then those people will charge whatever they like. I understand how hes working out the worth of each zcoin, however that all becomes academic when the only way to gain the item is either from farming zquests yourself or from purchasing the equipment pack from another. Further to this the amount of effort/time needed to gain a heavy equipment pack is far greater than that of 75k, thus I really doubt you will see them going for less than 100k + ectos for a long while yet. Personally I still feel the pricing of the Zcoin collectors is wonky, especially the gold stuff. Heavy equipment packs should cost 10 gold coins max and the elite tomes should only cost 1 cold coin each, as very few elite tomes go for over 5k these days. Further to this it would be an idea to add the monthly tonics and summoning stones to the gold collector, say 1gcoin for an ordinary tonic/summoning stone and 100 gcoins for the everlasting versions, with maybe the mysterious everlasting being added at 500g. I know I would grind my arse off for an everlasting phantasmal tonic and an everlasting mysterious summoning stone. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 13:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I hate to destroy your theory but just saw someone selling HEP for 125ectos which is around 550k. Simple logic says that pricing is gonna be like that: SEP - 2.5k (Merch), LEP - 100k , LEP - 200k , HEP - 500k. Well these are my predictions... --Aartist21 08:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In the GW forum I mainly visit I currently see LEPs sold at prices as low as 85k (started at around 100k+5e and already going down fast) and HEP at 80-90e.
 * [sarcasm]Hey, that's only like 1/2 a FOW armor, and for a full 20 storage slots![/sarcasm] [[Image:User Xelonir sig.png| ]]Xelonir 09:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think 100k for light, 200k for med and 500k for heavy also sounds reasonable as starting prices. Of course as more of these come into the game the price will slowly drop, however demand for these will persist regardless of supply. The prices will remain somewhat high due to the fact that zcoins cannot be 'farmed' in the traditional sense, nor can they be traded. Since there's no known way to farm quickly or otherwise cheat in order to get these any faster, they are rewards of a true time-sink in the game, thus will command high prices. Flipper 23:27, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, the demand for them will go down as time progresses obviously because more people will have gotten them on their own. I farmed one really quickly which took a lot of patience and traded it for an armbrace. I don't think I can do that now nor do I have the patience to repeat the process. Though I will repeat it if prices maintain at above 100k imo i'd only buy them for around 25k lol... Roflmaomgz 21:14, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Icon
Are you sure it's a Cockatrice staff? I've compared the inventory icons, and it looks more like a Bow Staff to me. 145.94.74.23 11:04, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, definitely not a Cockatrice Staff and the Bo Staff seems to be the closest match.  Nate [[Image:User Nate Alluran MyTalkPage.png|20px|User talk:Nate Alluran]] 15:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was unsure at first, but yeah you're actually right, that looks indeed more like a Bo Staff. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 10:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Why? Why why why why why why?
WHY... cannot Heavy Equipment Packs simply... cost 10k to buy? Just 4x the price of the Small Equipment Packs. That way grinding the same boss and mission out 10x in a row won't slowly erode my will to play, and question why I push my sanity to the edge in order to do so in the first place. I don't even bother with the PVP quests because: my guild isn't large enough for GVG, my rank isn't high enough for HA, and my patience for RA or ABs simply does not exist. So ANet, in their infinite "unwisdom", make PVP quests repeatable. Thanks a bunch. Feel free to reply or call me a crybaby or that you're going to have sex with my mom or whatever, I highly doubt I will check to see. :) 99.147.233.155 02:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree as soon as I saw that 15 gold zaishen coins where needed I didn't even bother deciding to work for the heavy equipment bag. I'd rather work towards something else or just buy extra storage. --58.165.114.208 03:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The Zaishen Coin traders would be pointless if there wasn't a real incentive to do the quests, you should be happy the merchants sells small equipment packs, if you can't save up for a heavy equipment pack there are always 3 [[Light Equipment Pack|easier

]] ones you can get.(marsc 22:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC))


 * Your All gonna freak but I have the PATIENCE! WOOT! Im More grindy then you are!74.173.107.209 11:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * even with bad patience, the ones being sold in GToB are way too overpriced, lets say an elite tome is 8k, which is 2 zcoins, so basicly 1 coin has the worth of 4k, x 15 coins =60k, its still high for just some inventory slot, but if 50/60k was the regular standard, im sure they will be sold a lot more.(Li Ngalfar 16:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC))


 * Why why why didn't you inform yourself before posting? The price is set so that people don

t get one on every character. Backsword 01:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I strongly disagree that the equipment packs are a good incentive to play the z-quests. To me, the z-quests would be a fun and innovative feature (in GW terms) if I wouldn't feel obligated to do them to get the item of my desire. And we're talking about an equipment pack here, not a rare miniature or everlasting tonic. This way they feel like a chore to do. --Adul 13:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Extra Gold, Check! Extra Faction, Check! Easy to find Pugs/Alliance groups, Check! Free Zcopper, Check! I don't find anything wrong with hte Zquests except sometimes not rewarding in proportion to where the bosses are located... The ZCopper and hte heavey packs are just a bonus to all the other freebies MrPaladin talk 13:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone has a problem with the Z-Quests themselves. What people (myself included) don't like is the obscene amount of quests needed in order to obtain Heavy Equipment Packs. The fact is, the only people who will be getting these packs anytime soon are the people who have a lot of free time on their hands.  Some might be wondering why this particular item is causing such a stir.  Certainly, there are many other items in the game that require alot of time to obtain.  The difference is that all of those items were only superior in terms of aesthetics, and not functionality.  That isn't the case with this item.  More storage space means being able to bring back more items for the Merchants.  More items for to merch means more disposable gold, more disposable gold means being able to buy things like better runes and weapon components, as well as skills and skill tomes, and having those things means you have an advantage over other players.  This is a clear cut example of Time > Skill, and that's always been something that the people behind Guild Wars have said that they're against.   --Jack Faros 01:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I realize I wasn't very clear above. I don't have a problem with the Z-quests themselves, but the amount of Z-quests that need to be done in order to craft a heavy equipment pack. I can also agree with what Jack Faros said: equipment packs give an advantage over players that don't have them by letting their owners acquire riches faster and/or more efficiently.
 * What I meant in my post above is that this issue also has an impact on the Z-quests themselves, because one of the rewards is something that requires a lot of effort to obtain but still an item that many players feel obligated to get. Thus, doing the quests seems like a chore that needs to be done daily, over and over again. I would personally enjoy them more without this chore-like pressure.
 * As MrPaladin said, the Z-quests offer plenty of rewards over the equipment packs, so removing the packs from their already extensive list of rewards and adding them to merchants would not completely remove the incentive to play the quests. --Adul 09:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Another thing that I noticed. Unlocking a Rainbow Phoenix at the Zaishen Menagerie costs 15 Gold Z-coins and 100g, the exact same amount as a heavy equipment pack costs. Based on this pricing, we can assume that obtaining a heavy equipment pack requires effort similar to maximizing 10 titles. In my opinion, that is wrong. --Adul 09:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Pack restrictions too much
I would have liked to have seen the pack hold stuff other than character-customized weapons and armor. Or at least to hold ANY weapon or armor regardless of customization, which I find to be far more reasonable. However I think they put all these restrictions on the pack to begin with in order to get players to purchase Xunlai storage panes instead, but I really don't think this will have any impact on a player's purchasing decision at all. The players who intend to buy Xunlai panes will buy them anyway, regardless of the packs. The end effect of all these restrictions on the pack make them more irritating than useful. Flipper 05:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you actually read the item description? It can hold uncustomized stuff too. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 05:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * According to Linsey they had to put in the restriction to reduce the amount of data that is stored. My guess is that for an armor/weapon in an eqipment pack they don't store the whole charcter ID of the character it's customized for (= multiple bytes), instead they just have a flag for customized/not customized (=1 bit). [[Image:User Xelonir sig.png| ]]Xelonir 06:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm that is an interesting concept, however the multiple bytes exist already in other storage containers, due to them already being allowed to store customized items for other characters on the same account. So whatever code is in place to allow this simply needs to be extended to accomodate the new packs. And with TB storage on the cheap now, you'd simply need an extra server on the array to handle the increased storage bits. Flipper 16:03, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's part of the problem (if I understood Linsey correctly): because of e.g. the Xunlai Chest being able to store customized items from all chars of an account they didn't have enough space left in the data structure to give us 4 extra panes and free-to-fill equipment packs at the same time. [[Image:User Xelonir sig.png| ]]Xelonir 16:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

HEP vs. 3 large equipment packs
Someone suggested that I should get 3 large equipment packs over one heavy equipment pack. Now I know obviously the equipment pack is a better investment than a simple Rainbow Phoenix for 15 z gold coins, but can anyone explain to me why 3 large equipment packs is better than one heavy equipment pack? Unless if ANet offers a reward trophy trader other than the z-coins ones (i.e. a Imperial Quartermaster who would trade in a Heavy Equipment Pack for 7-10 Imperial Commendation), I would like to know out of curiosity.--Dark Paladin X 20:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 3 large equipment packs would yield 45 slots of storage over 3 characters, whereas 1 heavy equipment pack + 2 small equipment packs would only yield 30 slots. Also, you get extra storage sooner, rather than later. For many people, like me, the marginal benefit of going from the large to the heavy isn't worth it. --JonTheMon 20:05, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Does that really need to be added into the article? Like, it's personal preference, not really something that everyone should do. --JonTheMon 14:24, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. It really depends on what you're trying to store, because of the customization limits. If you're trying to store a bunch of armor, mules won't work. Freedom Bound 14:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So, should the note about 3 large vs 1 heavy be removed? --JonTheMon 21:58, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. -Drakora 22:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed it since we agreed that it should have been removed. Than 03:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this is case where a note is worded inaccurately. The original text:

*Some players prefer spending 15 for 3 Large Equipment Packs (which costs 5  due to the fact that you are then able to hold 45 items(3 times 15) instead of the 20 from the heavy pack.
 * I think this better way to state this idea: "It may more cost efficient to purchase 3 Large Equipment Packs instead of a single Heavy Equipment Pack, depending on what you intend to store in the packs." --8765 22:15, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That seems less helpful to me. (1) it removes the numbers, making it difficult to compare; (2) it suggests it matters what you store, as opposed to where you store...as a single HEP allows the 20 items on a single toon (vs the 45 items in 3 LEPs across 3 toons). The original statement is, however, completely accurate. Perhaps it's overly wordy or detailed, and that could be improved. Tennessee Ernie Ford 02:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Easy to get?
It takes about a month to get one of these, doing 1 ZM and 1 ZB per day, if you complete all the bonus objectives. I don't understand what people are complaining about.75.121.83.113 08:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Not everyone is good enough at PvP to get the rewards and nobody likes doing the same grind all over again. –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 08:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The first poster didn't mention PVP at all and was specifically stating that it DOESN'T require grind. Doing one mission and killing one boss a day isn't so much grind as normal play. Sure it can be annoying if it's missions you've already done but combine it with things like filling books, vanq's ect. and it's not much extra at all. 86.181.67.32 20:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

We may not be able to play everyday though. 18:34, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Not worth it...overrated
This item is one of the most overrated and unbalanced items in the game. It costs 3 times the gold z coins than the next pack but only gives 5 more slots which can only be used for equipment drops/items. I see players selling this pack for stupid amounts of money/ectos. There is no way you can make that money back. The best you can hope for that this pack will give you is 5 more white drops (which would be equipment items only). Even if you are playing in HM that still comes out to about 250g in extra money, maybe a little more. It's common sense that players will not drop colored items (gold, green, etc) to pick up basic white items. And any items that can not go into the equipment pack which are 'good' drops will not be left by players either. So basically all the players can hope for is a few extra white items. Unless you go on a run where every drop you keep is gold or green or even purple then there isn't much benefit to his pack. It really needs balancing to make this pack worth it. At least change it to 10 gold z coins (maybe a little less like 8 or 9) and allow any drop/item to be put in it to make it more worth it. I have large equipment packs on all my chars giving me 15 extra equipment items and even though I've filled all my bags, etc, on runs like a vanquish, the most I'll lost is 5 white items, which some of them couldn't even go in the pack. You can use the difference of z coins between the large and heavy equipment packs to buy and sell stuff and make money that way so you really don't lose out anyways.
 * If it's so over-rated, wouldn't you benefit more from trading 15 gold coins for a heavy pack, and then selling it for its outrageous price? Also, some people like having space for extra gear, such as armor sets and a variety of weapon swaps. --76.114.80.153 09:06, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "So basically all the players can hope for is a few extra white items." Completley innacurate. You put the crappy white/blue weapon drops in the equipment pack therefore creating space in your other packs for the other non equipment items that may be considered to be worth more. Or of course you could put all the gold weapon drops in it that you get from killing/chests in HM. Dakota 00:26, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Quick Fix on Efficiency
I've changed the following statement:

More efficiently is to buy Light Equipment Packs for only 1 each, providing 10 extra slots for each character. If you have 15 for a HEP, which only holds 20 slots, you could instead get 15 LiEPs for 150 slots.

To this:

It is also considered somewhat efficient to buy Light Equipment Packs for only 1 each, providing 10 extra slots for each character. If you have 15 for a HEP, which only holds 20 slots, you could instead get 15 LiEPs for 150 slots. The disadvantage to this is that you then require 15 character slots all set up with access to your Xunlai Storage account to house the extra equipment packs. The 7 extra characters (assuming you have all three campaigns) will create an extra 140 slots of unconditional storage space anyway, without having to spend any in game cash asides the 350-700g (depending on whether you want access to material storage or not) to access the Xunlai services, on top of the real world money costs of those extra 7 characters.

In order to more accurately sum up the overall factors in storage "efficiency" and inform wiki readers of the extra time/money requirements of the previous note, so that they may be better informed about increasing their storage capacity wthin the confines of their activty and/or financial situation. Darke 10:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I've limited the note to just the facts (how many storage slots you can buy for the same 45 ). The analysis above is helpful for confirming some of the details, but it distracts from the main point, which is: you can get more storage by purchasing smaller packs, assuming you have that many toons. With that knowledge, players can decide on their own whether they need concentrated storage or volume. The xunlai costs are unlikely to be a factor (players almost always spend the 100 to have access to storage). Similarly, players who have earned 45 zoins can easily afford the extra 1400 to buy 15 packs instead of just 1. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)