ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Dervish/Wounding Strike

It deals no extra damage.. Scythe crits are about 60-80ish, Im more then 100% sure you have been hit with evis that did about 90 damage. Prokiller88 00:49, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Evis does no bleeding. Axe does not have the DPS scythe has. I agree with the need of a debuff. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  20:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The point is not the damage, but the maintainable deep wound. Eviscerate certainly can't cover their deep wound, and it certainly doesn't charge as fast.  Lightblade 22:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't need to maintain it. Either it kills, or it doesn't. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  22:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Have any of you seen this skill in gvg, and if so which match. Prokiller88 19:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We don't necessarily balance the game on GvG, HA (When it is seriously broken) is also considered. This is srly hurting in HA. pls increase recharge to at least 8 secs. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  20:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, the pressure from the -20% healing mounts very quickly. Each WoH that heals 40 less is 40 damage done. Lightblade 20:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * DWs don't stick. they either get RCed, or get a kill. The whole -20% shouldn't take effect. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  22:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I dont see any problem with this skill as it is subject of the many melee counters in this game, any competent party should defend well against it (you know every group should have some form of melee protection right?)--Shiin Zu 13:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Here we go with the ol' "This is a melee attack so ur party should defend agaisnt it" argument. what if eviscerate hit far 600 damage + DW? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait. If it doesn't stick, why does it matter so much? Oh no, you have to RC 2 conditions instead of one?  I don't really see why that's such a problems, since as you yourself said, the DW won't stay on. --Kalas Silvern 23:21, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It matters cause it is DW with a 3 second recharge. Please don't make me explain why that is broken. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * With no + damage, and people as far as I know didn't use it over Mel until the buff with bleeding. I undertand DW with a 3 second recharge being a problem- IF you aren't removing it.  Since RC and other condition removals solve that problem, I don't see what the big deal is.  Make it scale differently or something, leave the recharge alone- wars already outnumber dervs in just about every form of high level pvp, so let the dervs have something useful.  Oh wait, staleness = balance, my bad, I'll leave now (sarcasm). --Kalas Silvern 00:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sigh..."I undertand DW with a 3 second recharge being a problem- IF you aren't removing it." First of, that sentence makes no sense. Think about it. I had hoped not to point this out to you, but tab - 1 - tab - 1 - tab - 1 is over 150 damage, distributed over a team, along with degen that triggers it. yeah, that's perfectly okay. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  00:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nuclear, again, I understand that that would be a problem. Take into account scythes low attack speed, and the fact that this can be blocked.  Most teams run guardian, aegis, or some form of block.  So the scenario of a dervish being able to get to many people in a short amount of time is invalid due to blocking.  Ward against melee also harms this greatly, since it's an unstrippable block.  Of course, if the entire match wasn't centered on a single point, it would be even less effective.  It's not hard to counter it, and any decent team should be able to counter it with very little thought.  --Kalas Silvern 02:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * DZZZT! "this can be blocked" That's not the way it works. What if eviscerate did 9000+ plus damage? Would it be okay cause it could be blocked? Balance doesn't work that way. This is just brainless insane damage, 150+ on a crit scythe sin. Crit strike sins are no fun, but very annoying. What is there to argue? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Except that it is easily countered. And I'm not talking about use by assassins- in my opinion, crit strike sins are an issue in and of themselves, and I agree that they do need a major change or nerf.  My point is that on a dervish primary, it's fine, and is not 150 damage consistently.  In addition, part of balance should be how easy it is to counter something.  Eviscerate is balanced because it is easy to counter.  It also has + damage, which this doesn't, meaning that this does not fair as well against melees/rangers/paras (greater than 60al), while being powerful against casters.  Easily countered, but powerful, = balanced, imo.  And as I said, with a block based meta, the counter to this is extremely common.  If the problem is crit scythe sins, nerf crit scythe sins, not one of the few non-mel dervish elites that is actually useable.  --Kalas Silvern 03:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Dervishes can't pressure early as well as a warrior can. That being said, buffed with Splinter Weapon they're imbalanced at VoD/in HA. &mdash;  Skakid  03:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * kalas, this routinely does 150 damage. Even more when it crits. And the whole argument about "countering" is bullshit. Again, what is evis did 150 damage? This is no different. "with a block based meta, the counter to this is extremely common" It doesn't make it any less broken. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * tihs shit s kinda overpowrered end not et al easily counterable --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 15:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is better than evis, damage wise. more damage over all, hits 3 targets, a cover condition, and a 3 second recharge. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's so incredibly overpowered as you say, then why hasn't it replaced all warriors in terms of melee pressure (especially given it's complete superiority over Eviscerate)? &mdash;  Skakid  18:57, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And it's 50 damage + deep wound. The entire thing is healed by one RC.  And as Skakid said, if this is so OP, why hasn't it replaced evisc, except when someone runs a gimmick with critscythe sins.  If that alone makes it OP, critscythe is once again the problem, not this skill.  --Kalas Silvern 19:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

This skill is imbalanced. If you could use Evis every 3 seconds, with a cover condition in case of a dismiss, would people be complaining? You bet. However, this becomes exponentially more powerful, and thus more imbalanced (less balanced?) when used in either of two builds: Crit Sins, or Conjure Dervs. Crit sins are an issue that have been discussed by many people in many places, so I won't go over that. Conjure Dervs are a huge problem that hasn't been adressed as thoroughly though. The fact that Conjures stack with Strength of Honour means that you can have a dervish hitting for +30 damage every hit, without attack skills, spamming deep wound every 3 seconds on multiple targets, and then using other skills to follow up with even more insane amounts of damage. Most often, this is coupled with a mesmer using Signet of Humility on the RC. Even without Conjure + SoH though, a good dervish who is using Wounding Strike as much as he can will cause a lot of pressure for the RC, who will have to focus a lot more on removing deep wounds, and a lot less on preprotting and RCing other conditions. 64.59.144.86 09:14, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Correct on pretty much every point. IMO, deep wound should be removed from all energy skills unless the recharge is high enough to make up for it. Eviscerate can be used roughly every 20 seconds; with all the block and blind spam in the meta, 30 seconds isn't unheard of. Wounding Strike recharging ten times faster than Eviscerate is a huge joke, especially when the other scythe attack skills also recharge that fast, so you can have a deadly spike (with deep wound and bonus damage attack skills) ready every 6 or so seconds.
 * Nerf them all tbh. Base scythe damage should simply be reduced, although individual skills like this would still need nerfing. - Auron 09:36, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I seriously think people are overreacting. I'd like to see the scythe that deals 200 damage and even if it does, the problem is with the scythe and not with this skill. It might be ok to increase it's recharge somewhat, but it only causes conditions, nothing more. Deep Wound is good, but it is not all powerful and it can't kill anyone, not even if you spam it every 3 seconds. 145.94.74.23 21:16, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Reverse condition order - Deep Wound needs to be uncovered. 76.64.185.213 21:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

First of all, why would a monk waste 5 energy RCing 2 conditions that will be applied 3 seconds later? Stop thinking about the red bar, and more about pre-protting. In GvG, builds such as these are usually just gimmick spike builds. Spread out and split them; see if you can hopefully win. As for HA, make sure your team is considerably more gay than theirs. It has worked in the past, I doubt anything has changed. The dervish class (as a whole) has always been broken to some extent/degree. Guild Wars is designed in such a way, that spammable AoE DW can never truly be balanced. Why even bother trying? -- Readem 21:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Because the alternative is letting GW rot more than it already is. That's a terrible reason to leave an overpowered skill alone. - Auron 08:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're smart enough not to stand close together, and smart enough not to kite when a +33%IMS superautocriticalwhenmoving is attacking you, then a simple RC will be able to keep you alive easily. 145.94.74.23 11:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars does not work that way. --71.237.30.4 11:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

How about, "Lose one enchantment. If you lost an enchantment this way, target foe suffers deep wound for x...y...z seconds. If not, target foe suffers bleeding for x...y...z seconds and this skill recharges in half the time", with a 30 seconds recharge? Erasculio 00:01, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Mmm, 30 secs is a bit much, imo, and needing an enchantment to DW... that's worse the Pious Assault tbh... Personally, something a bit interesting would be good (like the old version but more useful), but I think ANet should just keep it simple and up the recharge to like 5. It's not a major nerf, but it would keep this under control and keep alternatives (yeah, like Wounding Strike II) viable. They were quick to do it with IA, I don't see why they don't just do that to this (and OK maybe 5 wouldn't be enough, but it would be better than nothing).

Shard's discussion
Becomes inferior to Pious Assault for the purpose of applying DW to enemies, as Pious would be used as often as this when a Dervish has to reapply Enchants like a madman to use his Elite for DW when he could use Pious for unconditional DW which has bonus damage instead which aids in Spikes and does not become RC Healsauce./notsigned.24.205.38.234 23:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Pious needs a nerf, did we mention? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  10:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Searing Flames is inferior to Wail of Doom, maybe we should triple Searing Flames' damage. ~Shard (talk) 01:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, just strip elite status. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  10:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm just responding to Nukes statement that Pious is OP, I think a skill like it is necessary for Dervishes since Wearying is the only other legitimate way to apply a DW, TBH. I mean fine they got Reaper's, but that skill is too clunky. Then we got WS, which requires an Enchant to not be stripped, and we're contemplating ways to nerf it in the process of all of this. Compare it to a War's options which are all almost fool-proof in the forms of Evis and Crushing which needs a KDed target. ArisB.24.205.38.234 23:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Fuck dervish promotion. I'd rather have a GW with balanced DW rather than a GW with Imba dervishes. Pious is broken. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  06:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Idea maybe...?
What if we split this one also.... PvP would be reverted to the old wounding strike. GG Halogod35  05:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that would be a good idea since generally the bleeding is not used for pressure in PvP and is only used to cover DW, which is only used for about one second before like 600 damage hits the enemy and kills him in an amazing poke-poke spike.24.205.38.234 23:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not a game balancer so don't flame me much :P, but why not give it the same mechanics of Searing Flames? Elite Scythe Attack, target foe suffers from Bleeding for 5...17...20 seconds. If you hit a bleeding foe and you are under the effect of an enchantment, target foe suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds instead. that way deep wound is not covered by bleeding. --M age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]M ontu 08:33, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Because then, it's Sever Artery + Gash - damage - offhand slot - 10 base AL + time between application of Bleeding and DW + 1 skill slot - elite skill slot. I agree that it's OP, but that is NOT the way to go.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  03:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

that should solve it
that will mean they cant just hit skills when they recharge like most of the ones i see do... using this skill
 * It still will be a 3 second deepwound on recharge. It will be, what, a nerf for really bad players? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  10:21, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Nuklear's perk, 3 Second Boy... Can't dodge a Deep Wound. Having the last word in every topic doesn't make any statement valid plus "that will mean they cant just hit skills when they recharge like most of the ones i see do... using this skill" doesn't make sense, post something more clearer.--Wealedout 13:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

gg
There is nothing wrong with Wounding Strike the issue is in the damage add stacking with Strength of Honor and Conjures it's going to be popular in the monthly be interesting to see who figures out how to deal with it the best, it's something I'll probably address after next update. Izzy @-' 06:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

So, this is our skillbalancer?Oni  16:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * He has Gw1 and 2 to worry about, you guys shouldn't be so harsh on him. prokiller88 04:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

No it isn't. It's some random IP dude. Take a look at discussion. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  11:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Dark Morphon's Issue + Readem's Issue = Bad suggestions

 * "Spammable DW is baed" + "Spammable covered DW". You mean bad, by the way. Spammable Deep Wound is bad? That is the Dervish specialty, might as well remove ranger's specialty of dazed, no? See this page for details about conditions and classes.


 * "Increase energy cost to 10"? Come on, really? The idea of this skill is just that, to SPAM and spread Deep Wound plus bleeding. This skill doesn't add damage like Pious Assault and this isn't Pious Assault. If it would add damage then it would need a second look.


 * "Increase recharge to 6" + "Increase recharge to 5 seconds".Use a any non elite skill and poof, DW and Bleeding are gone, you absolutely did nothing. Knowing the balancers of Guild Wars they might ignore this one. The idea is not to break the skill is that you post something you think would balance it if your opinion is that this skill is "broken", by the way I don't think is broken. Wounding Strike versus the capabilities of other classes elites and abilities makes it very well balanced.

--Wealedout 02:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Increase energy cost to 10, increase recharge to 6, decrease Deep Wound duration to 3...9...10, add +5...17...20 damage."Increasing energy cost and recharge because it would deal more damage? It would just be another Pious Assault, or a duplicate.


 * Just because a class "specializes in something" doesn't mean it can't be broken, e.g. Assassins and Shadow Stepping.
 * No, it's spammability is what makes this so dangerous. An instant and most always constant -20% health fixation and -20% healing is scary. It may not do damage, but being sucker-punched with a deep-wound that is very difficult to remove--difficult as in you have to somehow get the scyther away from you in order to do anything--sucks. Energy demand mitigates it's spamability
 * Increasing recharge is not as bad as it seems. This would put it on par with other such elites like Eviscerate, which, under ideal conditions, takes about 8-10 seconds before use. While it does additional damage, Wounding has the additional sugarcoat of being able to hit up to three targets as well as having the highest crit damage.
 * See latter part of number 3.


 * -- Ezekial Riddle 03:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

As if this argument wasn't enough, before you reach a ranger he can peg you and your teammates with poison, cripple and "on fire".--Wealedout 04:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not broken. It is balanced compared to the other classes elites and power.
 * Spammability it is what makes this elite and balanced. Being sucker punched?I'm glad you see it's purpose. That is why this is an elite and Pious Assault is not.
 * This should not be compared with Eviscerate, the Dervish is not a Warrior. The warrior can have 100 armor against elemental and physical damage. Warrior can get there.


 * Wealedout, you really, really have no idea waht you are talking about. I'm going to be blunt and say "Go play HA once and comeback" because you really, have no idea of the issue. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  08:31, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It is not broken. It is balanced compared to the other classes elites and power.
 * This should not be compared with Eviscerate, the Dervish is not a Warrior. The warrior can have 100 armor against elemental and physical damage
 * Let's see, eviscerate does only +30 damage with no cover condition for effectively 10 second recharge on a worse weapon. How is that balanced?
 * So i herd pyur dmg w/ crap deefenz is gud. Sarcasm aside, I do like that minor contradiction you have. Also, you're forgetting about the part where scythes have the highest damage capability and that this is a deep wound every 3 seconds with my aforementioned sugarcoat. If it were bleeding, or poison, or some other not so spikey condtion, perhaps this may be balanced, but deep wound?! No other skill causes a deep-wound every 3 seconds that is as virtually unconditional (Requiring an enchantment on the class that lives, breathes, eats, and drinks enchantments is NOT very conditional--if conditional at all.) Sure, it could be RC'd, only to be put up 3 seconds later. Heck, that's really only the viable option--other than blockweb/defenseway, which requires a variety of skills--to get rid of it, since the Deep Wound is covered by a bleeding.
 * Your "warrior" has a changing variable. Granted: The +20 versus physical is permanent. However, the +20 versus elements is a can have. However, you're seem to forget a few things. In this current meta--partly inspired from such power creep as this Wounding Strike--you're defense is practically covered. Unless, of course, you have bad monks or a generally bad backline.
 * Why shouldn't this be compared to eviscerate? They serve the same ends, other than Wounding Strike is unarguably stronger. And, paradoxically, greater strength for a weaker armor is not necessarily balanced. Especially in a game like this where mostly everything requires a team effort, rather than an individual effort.
 * And on the Ranger remark: Monks. If you're trying to solo-melee a bow-ranger, chances are you'll lose.
 * -- Ezekial Riddle 04:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. Following Nuclear's suggestion is good advice. This is something that needs to be seen.
 * Nuklear and Ezekial, you should get your head out of meta! What class are you playing? This thing can be blocked as any skill of any Warrior uses in fact this class can be dumbfounded as the Warrior class and better thanks to their low armor. '''If you are been sucker punch by it you deserve been sucker punch for not bringing anything to help you out. Well before you reach someone
 *  Any noobie Assassin will Twisting Fangs in less than 2 seconds and cover both conditions and even peg more
 *  I can do an Accumulated Pain well before you even touch me then punish you for trying to remove it
 * Thoughtless Rangers can maintain Poison and On Fire Status on 3 targets the Throw Dirt plus the annoying Pin Down from afar
 *  Elementalist has the brainless Blinding Flash
 *  Paragons with Anthem of Weariness can help all of his mob to turn down the spikes from Dervishes and Warrior to nothing and having a DP and Bleeding a shrug off their shoulders'''
 * A simple Temple Strike will shut off completely a Dervish. Try playing other arenas like AB, RA and TA and in HA you shouldn't have a "bad monk" in the first place.--ShadowFog 03:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Shadowfog; I have to assume you're trolling, because nobody on earth would temple strike a dervish. Temple strike is a bad elite period, and bringing it as a direct counter is stupid. However, thanks for proving everyone's point; if you are forced to bring something as insanely single-purposed as temple strike simply to counter the wounding strike dervish, the dervish is patently overpowered. - Auron 03:22, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Temple strike is bad on dervishes because of the energy cost, the recharge, and the fact that a single RC will undo it and recharge in 2 seconds. If you use temple strike at least use it on the RC monk.
 * Calm down, cool off and read its clear you are not reading. So Im assuming that after Temple Strike'ing an opponent, specially a Dervish, you have an 8 second window to finish it and no one cant? Hhmm, nowhere I said to bring it as a direct counter and you are right, bringing something elite against one class is wrong but looks like you didnt read the Pin Down, the Blinding Flash, Throw Dirt,Anthem of Weariness in fact lets make these simple, heres a list of:
 * Blocking
 * Crippled
 * Blind
 * Look for decreasing IAS
 * Weakness-Decreasing 66% of damage output.
 * There's more like the punishing Mesmer's Visions of Regret build which is in the discussion which is almost broken due to the huge damage output. Theres a ton of skills against melee, choose your favorite. Considering this is an elite, then that Dervish has nothing of the gods to help him out, clearly open to hex and conditions.--ShadowFog 03:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Pin down recharge? 8. Restore condition recharge? 2. Hm. Also, lmao @ throw dirt. Nobody takes that skill in any serious PvP. It's terrible. Pin down is rare as well tbh, people only bring it on split rangers, which not many people run. Visions of regret requires an entire hex build to do anything with, and even then you wouldn't be throwing it on a dervish, you'd be putting it on monks. The only viable counters to dervishes are the ones that Anet keeps nerfing; wards, aegis, and spammable blind. All the rest of that shit you listed is just bad theorycrafting that fails when you bring it against an actual team. You need to watch obs mode a lot more. - Auron 04:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ROFLMAO. Who uses throw dirt in high-end PvP? I can understand throw dirt in PvE and low end PvP(where you rarely encounter condition removal) but in high-end PvP, active blinding skills like blinding flash/surge are a lot better because they can quickly be reapplied and tie up the RC monk's time and energy.
 * From the another previous paragraph:"Try playing other arenas like AB, RA and TA..."--ShadowFog 04:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure nobody cares about those. Izzy doesn't balance around AB or RA. He balances around GvG and (sometimes) HA. If, however, something is broken in GvG, chances are it's even more broken in small arenas. In this case, it definitely is. RC + an assload of party wide blocks is the only viable way to counter wounding strike. In small arenas, how much of that do you have? No RC monks. No wards. No aegis. At most, a monk has guardian, but any good dervish will just switch targets and deep wound that instead... then switch back immediately and deep wound that as well. With, of course, a cover condition, so the vast majority of condition removals won't get the deep wound. Evidently that is balanced, in your opinion.
 * If you can't see the balance issues with this skill, you probably shouldn't be commenting on balance at all :/ If you seriously, honestly, with all of your heart think Wounding Strike is not imbalanced, I request that you go do PvP - on a competitive level. All you've done here is theorycraft - poorly, at that. Nobody uses temple strike because it's a bad skill. For anything. It's bad to use against monks, it's bad to use against dervishes. If you want a sin build that kills, take a backbreaker sin. If you want a sin build that shuts a caster down, run shattering assault. Same thing with throw dirt. If blind is that important, a team will run a blinding surge ele (or, more recently, a fastcast water mesmer). There are viable ways to use certain conditions - throw dirt and temple strike are sub-par skills. If you still think them viable... well, there's really nothing else I can say on the matter. - Auron 04:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There are Stances, Enchantments, Skills, Shout, Chants, Hexes and Conditions to prevent melee attacks.--ShadowFog 05:22, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * U r funny gai. By your logic, a melee attack skill that reads "Sword skill. Stabs opponent in the heart and kills him instantly. No effect if it misses." is perfectly balanced because you can bring defenseball? Come on. You aren't even trying anymore. - Auron 06:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "U r funny gai" too. No one ever mentioned that.--ShadowFog 15:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Auron and his misplaced logic.It reads "Elite Scythe Attack. Inflict Bleeding condition (5...17...20 seconds). Also inflicts Deep Wound condition (5...17...20 seconds) if you are enchanted." Nobody is talking about one hit kills, or interested in your possible grudge with ShadowFog. I may coincide with some of Morphon or Readem's issue but from what they posted it seems they are totally against the existence of this skill like the ridiculous suggestion by Makku instead of balancing, which by the way I still think is balanced.It seems Readem's issue was deleted...Maybe it was wasting space like Makku's--Wealedout 04:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

this skill is perfectly balanced. should be free, no recharge, and also apply blind. with an update like that, GW would finally be decent. -- Readem 04:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Really...You forgot Dazed!--ShadowFog 04:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Wounding Strike + Gash. shit guys, what we gonna do? -- Readem 04:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Mending. I'm surprised you didn't think of that. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

You know I actually thought readems post was serious untill i saw it was readem lol :p.It just needs a wieee nuke. Lilondra  *poke*  13:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Makku's Suggestion
I lol'ed. Demosthenes 17:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I heartily support Makku's suggestion. - Auron 06:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol why dont you change it into a pve only skill :p.Pve is a joke with or without WS anyway ;) Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  07:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't change the skill in any way other than reversing the order of bleed and DW. Instabalanced.
 * Yes, that. prokiller88 01:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's still a DW every 3 seconds. This would be broken even if it didn't have bleeding. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Really Nuclear? Because last time I checked, it did a deep wound when you had an enchantment on you before the change to the skill. prokiller88 23:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's Still a DW every 3 seconds. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  12:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They didn't have a problem with it before, that WS build was always on pvx even before the change. prokiller88 12:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * i think the blinding surge nerf has a lot to do with that Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  14:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Who didn't? I always did. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * nuclear to who are you pointing ? i think the big deal is that blinding surge's aoe effect halted the dervs.(like pleak halted guardian).The nerf to BS and the buff to WS made BOOM BOOM wieee i win much more important that utility (not saying skill that died long ago) Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  10:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was referring to prokiller88. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah because I'm sure changing nothing will make it balanced. It's not broken because the deep wound gets RC'd a millisecond after the bleeding, it's broken because of the recharge.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 00:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Halogod's Issue
Rant goes here. xD -- Halogod35   18:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Ulterion's Issue

 * I agree, kinda wish they had never touched this skill cause the end result is not ganna be pretty, I'm realy suprised its stayed the way it is for so long, not because its overpowered but because the player base in lower level pvp is generaly bad and good skills vs bad player= QQ and eventual nerfs to oblivion. my only hope is that when they do change it, they at least be smart and simply revert it to its original form.99.204.70.116 06:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I Agree, WS is fine as is, here is why:
 * No extra damage is inflicted, DW is conditional (dervishes rely on enchantments.. strip them..)
 * Monks, Ritualists, Dervishes, Rangers, and Necromancers all possess skills to remove multiple conditions.
 * Overpowered condition removing skills (ie peace and harmony)
 * Multiple bleeding/dw is easy to avoid (do not bunch up and the dervish will not hit 3)
 * Blind & Blocking

Easy enough to counter WS if people will stop using pvxwiki builds.

Raine's Issue

 * 10 energy scythe attacks are retarded, w/o lots of nrg management no derv can effectivly use them. unless they are a forsaken dervish, which is equally retarded99.204.70.116 06:30, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Or if you're on an 8 man team, where you lose enchantments every couple of seconds. Dervishes are like necromancers - they don't need energy. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)