Talk:Confusing Images

Initial discussion
No expiration timer. Wicked fun in PvE when there's no/not much hex remove? :D
 * It ends after 6 seconds... I wish this was in Dom so much... but that might be a bit imba. --Edru viransu 00:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The name ties in with Illusion Magic more than Domination, although names do change... :) Sirocco 05:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Honestly, the more that I think about the more I like that it's in illusion, because it supports the active shutdown role Anet's been trying to push for illusion mesmers(clumsiness buff, etc.). --Edru viransu 05:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice AoE cover hex, and set-up for one of the painful mesmer interrupts. 203.217.0.53 05:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A nice cover hex entails having a duration longer than 6 seconds and not ending when they cast a spell. This is an awful cover hex [[Image:User Greedy Gus sig.jpg]] Gus 07:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Point taken. Still, as it is AoE (although small) you could use it to disguise a spike, and the increased cast time this hex causes would delay the response to the spike. 203.217.0.53 07:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Clarification about the math ... 140% means a one-second spell should take 2.4 seconds to cast, right? But does the game would round it down to 2? And presumably this wouldn't stack with Migraine or Arcane Languor since there is a cap on activation time. Could still prove useful - cast it on a monk, before they realize they cast a spell and it becomes an easy interruption target. This+Power Block on the monk before a spike ... --MasterPatricko 09:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Dunno about rounding. Anyway it looks like a good cover hex, and a correct interrupt assist. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:82.243.4.182.
 * I Don't get how the name matches the description. At least give it a name... like Mental Lethargy or something. I wanna see this have a reduced activation time (1/4), like you're trying to say "haha I'm faster than you are!" lol. (Terra Xin 01:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC))
 * 1s cast and you want a faster activation time? With just 7 FC, the activation is just under 3/4s. Seppuku Influenza 05:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing as it only effects one spell maybe it should be something like: "For 6 seconds target foe's next spell takes 0..1 second longer to cast" To me it would fit more with the confusing images bit. Plus, it wouldn't have to fight arcane conundrum for supremacy. Jigoku 12:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like it if it said "If target foe is activating a skill, that skill takes an additional 0...2 seconds longer to activate." and then give it a 1/4 cast and reduced recharge. That would be cool.(Terra Xin 01:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC))

This skill was meant to be good in PvE as we feel mesmers still need help there, and we actually made this before we added the AOE to arcane condunrum, the goal of this skill is to be a cheap alternative to a spell slow, and 6 sec is a lot of time in PvP. I think this is gonna be a neat skill that will see a lot of use in PvP, and hopeful be fun in PvE. ~Izzy @-&#39; 20:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

But, aren't two spells in the same line with the same effect redundant? We can't have that! That would be like a punishing hex in the curses line! (I'm bitter :p) or if those ugly bellbottom pants came back! or if you could use the power of sally struthers to do 112 fire damage to all foes in the area Oh no! It's happening! Only you can stop this reality! Use your balance skills and save us!(/poor attempt at funny) Jigoku 23:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill seems pretty poor. I can see some use in PvP (especially casting it on the infuse monk before a spike, which could even allow to interrupt infuse if the mesmer can time it well), but this is really a niche and with such a recharge I dunno if it will see some use. Either have the slowing scale to 200% or make it slow recharge. --Faena 17:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This might be nice against Rit Spike in a Balanced team, by any 1/4 second skills cast completely ruin the tactical utility of it. --Skye Marin 21:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

An Idea
I think this skill isn't quite good enough for Mesmers (especially when compared to other classes new skills). My idea is this:

Hex Spell. For 6 seconds, the next spell cast by target and all adjacent foes takes 45...121...140% longer to cast. If you interupt a spell under the effects of this hex, this hex is reapplied to all targets originally hexed.

Basically how it works is that say for example its a GvG against a balanced team, and you hex an LoD, a Bsurge (the target) and the Mesmer. The Bsurge doesnt notice and uses Lightning Orb. You interupt it easily because its on a 4 second cast time. When that happens the hex would end because he had cast (and failed) a spell (this is how glyphs work). The LoD Monk might have wasted the hex by using Reversal of Fortune and so he is happy to be free of the hex. But because you interupted the Bsurge, the hex is reapplied to the LoD and Bsurge again, and they must suffer the consequences again (same with the Mesmer).

The reason I suggest this change is because it makes the skill stronger to a stronger player, and weaker to a weaker player, and the opposition would need to not cast a 1s or more length spell within that time, for fear of the hex being reapplied. The hex could be wasted on most of the targets with a Draw from the Bsruge, an interupt from the Mesmer and a Reversal from the Monk. Good players would deal with it much better than bad players. A good caster of this would watch all three targets for spells to catch one out and keep the hex maintained for as long as possible. This would make it a strong version of Arcane Conundrum, but with a higher drawback, and needing more ability.

A change like this would most likely require a change in cast, cost and recharge.--Renegade 10:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

You change + Cry of frustration = Boom! Durga Dido 10:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Cry of frustration wouldnt have any special ability over other interrupts than interrupting more than one target. The hex is meant to apply to all the enemies again, if you interrupt any one of them.--Renegade 10:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't really useful compared to Arcane conundrum
Why bother using this spell to make the next target spell cast 140% longer when Arcane Conundrum allows to add 100% to the casting time of ALL the next spells during 15 seconds ?

True, Confusing Images costs less, have a better cast time and a sighty better reload time, but that doesn't make up for its less usefulness.

If I want an hex that will prevent a spell casting, shame, Guilt and Mistrust are better. If I want to be able to better interrupt, Arcane Conundrum is better.

Even the AoE of this spell is not really useful since it lasts only 6 seconds, meaning that it will be difficult to interrupt all the foes hexed by it.

If it is meaned to be a light version of Arcane Conundrum, then it must be easier to spam it. Decrease the reload time to 10 or 5, and then it will be an alternative to AC. (Trouveur 09:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC))

I thought my idea above was cool, and made it a strong alternative to Arcane Conundrum, doing a similar thing but in a different way.--Renegade 09:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. This spell should have a clear advantage over Arcane Conundrum, for example, adding 0..2 seconds on the cast time of any enchantment spells.--Skye Marin 14:26, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

gah, again overpowered. Readem (talk *gwwcontribs ) 01:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Readem this is boring, you are just telling "overpowered" everywhere...

A slight buff would be nice
Currently it has a cap of 140% snare on casting speed for one spell within six seconds. Please consider making it a 200% max effect. A PvP enemy can wait it out, so it isn't overpowered.

However if he chooses to cast, a 200% snare on one spell's casting speed allows an interrupter to more easily snuff a .25s cast like Shield of Regeneration (which would become a .75s cast). It still isn't a guaranteed way to control Protect Monk casting, but it helps!

arredondo 18:11, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's not a bad suggestion. Personally what bugs me is the recharge though. Why exactly is this getting a longer recharge than Diversion? Patccmoi 07:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My guess is that it's because Diversion has a 3s cast and this skill is only 1s. Under MoRecovery, Diversion lasts 6s and recharges in 6s but it takes at least 1.8s - 2.0s or so to cast. This skill lasts 6s and recharges in 7.5s (MoR adjusted), but would take .6s - .7s or so to cast. Diversion still comes out faster but not by much.


 * That said, I don't think cutting the recharge of CI to 14s or even 12s is a bad thing as long as the effect maxes at 200%. arredondo 14:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I was thinking 12s. I think it'd be fine on 12s, but i feel that 15s for just one spell is a little bad. I mean, AConundrum at 10/2/20 actually sticking on the guy seems more tempting than this working on only 1 spell atm. Especially since they can choose what spell, and if they have any .25s cast on their bar they can use to get rid of it (and that's if they can't just wait it out) it won't change much. I like the concept, but i'd agree with your 100..200% (well for scaling likely more like 100..196%, but w/e) and 5/1/12. Would be more interesting Patccmoi 06:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think a higher cast speed debuff% is needed to. It's a 1 shot spell cast speed hex. It should have some more zapow because as already mentioned anyone who sees this put on them can just cast a .25s spell and not even flinch. If they don't have a .25s spell they just wait 6 seconds. --Redfeather 14:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe I did the math wrong, but this at full power would turn a .25s cast into a .6s cast? I know some people say they can interrupt a .75 spell if they know it's coming, but I'm not sure if a .6s second spell is possible to interrupt considering connection latency and whether you wish to know what it is you are interrupting. I think this needs more kick. --Redfeather 18:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, currently it makes a .25s cast to .60s cast at max stats - pretty tough to interrupt on reaction with lag and the .25s cast time of your stopper (with L0 FC points). Asking for a .75s cast snare for one single .25s cast isn't broken. It'll still require skill and timing, and even then you may not tag anything significant (i.e. RoF). arredondo 04:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This is the sort of short term tactical hex that is good for the game. I'd really like to see this with decent stats...scaling from 100% to 200%, or even 300%, would be a good start.  The effect being wrecked by anyone with a .25c spell on their bar really limits its effectiveness. This should be the Illusion-equivalent of Diversion. -Ensign 10:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ensign here. This skill in it's current form isn't really going to see much use. It was designed for PvE? What? I don't see this helping much in PvE, (especially hard mode since they have casting increases...), especially when Arcane Conundrum is far superior to this in PvE. I want to see something along Ensign's lines. I want this to really mess up clutch skills, like casting it on a monk while the team spikes to give you that extra time it takes to pull off the spike before an infuse comes to save the day.  Currently bring a .25 skill to .6 still requires TWITCH reflexes to be able to interrupt..maybe not even that.  Most of us probably have reflexes around .25 seconds, then insert the .25 or so second cast of an interrupt, then the latency...I still find 3/4 second casts hard to interrupt if I'm not relying on counting recharges.  So, yes, I want to see this as illusion's response to diversion. My only thought is that people may see it, cast->cancel->cast to avoid the effect of the spell in PvP (granted you just cost them 5 energy and a little time...but still...)TGgold 02:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. BHA + Epidemic, or if you're dead set on running Illusion, Arcane Conundrum will still be better in about 99% of cases. Unless monsters actually bring condition removal now for PvE, and if so you can always throw Anthem of Flame or Apply Poison on top if they're not running Draw.  This skill won't get run, the clutch spells on monks are usually 0.25s (SoD, RoF, SoR) and most people can't interrupt a 0.65 s spell unless they're following recharges.  Latency + interrupt activation + reaction time usually is 0.6, giving you a *tiny* window for those skills.  I'll have to echo Ensign's sentiment about making this playable in PvP first - it could be seriously interesting there, but in PvE as far as slowing casts are concerned, this skill is a total non-factor. ~Seef II &lt;☎|→&gt; 19:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, assuming this is brought to a more useful level, it COULD be useful in PvE. If this gets to a 200% or 300% scale, a 1 second cast becomes a 3 or 4 second cast.  Imagine things like Vampiris Swarm, Meteor Shower, or other longer-than-one-second casts used by enemies in PvE regardless of their situation. Assuming the extended cast is longer than the time it takes for the enemy to cast+aftercast, then just interrupting the skills will always be better in terms of preventing damage/effects to your team.  Izzy had originally intended this as a PvE usable skill for mesmers, but I'm just not seeing it with the current 140% max.TGgold 20:20, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Throwing out a suggestion: "The next Spell cast by target foes and foes adjacent to your target takes % longer to cast (minimum 1 second activation). Two things: first, if I got my scaling correct, you hit the cap of the 150% casting debuff at 14 illusion, and second, you have a good chance of actually interrupting the 0.25 spells.  I'd be worried about Mantra of Persistence with this at these stats, but that took a big enough hit last time. ~Seef II &lt;☎|→&gt; 19:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions
To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 00:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Immagini Disorientanti --YukoIshii 00:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

French: Images Troublantes Utaku 16:09, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Spanish: Imágenes Confusas --Michael the Perfectionist 22:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Hero usage?
Well most of us in normal mode know how godly hero AI is using mesmer interupts and those who use a mesmer hero with interupts using fast cast know how frequently enemy 1/4second cast spells are interupted. In hardmode that changes since enemy casters use 1/4 or 3/4 second spells cast a touch fast for gwen to hit with an interupt. 1/8 spells could be brought back to normal + 40% slower which would make it even easier and more reliable for gwen to interupt. Problem being all the great interupts are in domination magic :-(--Justice 05:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is good for hero interrupters, especially since interrupting spells means the hex won't end early. You can have someone cast this, and the dom hero will interrupt everything the enemy casts for 6 seconds, unless they use all their interrupts of course.  Plus any enemies around the target will be casting really slow, turns meteor shower or maelstrom into one long spell, instead of interrupting you could just kill them before they finish :) - Elder Angelus 15:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

LOLWUT?
"The effect of this spell only ends if target successfully casts a spell."

Actually, I think it ends after 6 seconds. Amirite? — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ 16:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's supposed to mean that cast and cancel won't help you. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 16:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that should be made more clear? — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 16:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Definitely, just posting so if someone thinks it means something else they can correct me :P - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 16:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It says *successfully* casts a spell. Interrupt them and it will last full duration.  If you have a hero interrupter, you're basically guaranteed to interrupt all enemy spells for 6 seconds, wasting the enemy's time standing in firestorm, losing energy on wasted spells, and cutting them up while they stand instead of running. - Elder Angelus 15:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...
Combine with arcane conundrum and have fun vs. half the professions. Ninjas In The Sky

There is a cap on slowing casting speed, so no more fun then by itself. Barkingllama 18:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

still seems a bit underpowered...
the name confusing images and it's effect are two different things. also the fact that it just got increased energy, casting, AND recharege time, I don't really see it being used much.
 * Well it's now a shorter duration Arcane Conundrum that affects things other than spells but doesn't hit adjacent foes. But honestly, what things other than spells do you want to double the activation time of? Signets? Chants and Echoes? Arcane Conundrum still looks generally superior to me. Astralphoenix777 02:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone know how this stacks with Arcane Conundrum? 4x cast time could be pretty ridiculous (spell based resurrections over 15 second casts :-P)--Chump Chief 18:41, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Claim Resourse
Does it effect it? Frosty 11:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

why?
why did they make this skill worse? it didn't see much use in the first place, and now they make it take a mil seconds to cast and increasing recharge and energy cost. um ok w/e didn't use this skill before wont use this skill now. 70.135.104.185 22:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a new skill, completely unlike the one before it, that's why it's bad. It has yet to be properly balanced itself. The Confusing Images before the update looked like waste timer/one time interrupt preparation skill, but the recharge was too long. And it still doesn't live up to it's name, Confusing Images. There was a suggestion to make it camouflage what skills you are activating... I think that would be the best change. That or make it a spam style interrupt support.

How about an interrupt that doubles the activation of the next skill? Lou Wolfskin 22:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

siege turtles
Would this work against monster skills? 65.94.159.153 16:16, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. It might actually make Aspenwood turtles feasibly interruptible.

buff arcane conundrum but not this?
title.. 70.135.124.76 03:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Arcane Conundrum and Confusing Images - Spells and Skills
To those of you initially confused about this skill and Arcane Conundrum like I was, here is an explanation: AC is for spells while this skill is for non-attack skills. While this is still limiting, it does allow a larger window of opportunity to interrupt other forms of abilities. This is especially true since many mesmer skills let you interrupt chants. This is basically the chant version of AC. To further strengthen this argument, Domination is an anti-spell casting attribute while Illusion is an anti-physical attribute. This makes Paragons especially vulnerable to the Illusion attribute line. 98.124.27.154 01:43, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Confusing Images only gained its current functionality in 2009. Its old functionality is this, which is what most of the commentary refers to. MA Anathe 22:10, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit - Speaking of checking the time stamps (indirectly), this wasn't the new comment that had this on the recent changes. Bah.  MA Anathe 22:12, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Single or multi target?
'Cause in French description says "targeted foes" though without mentioning any range of effect (nearby, area, w/e) 212.224.177.188 21:52, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Confusing Images has no area of effect, though that wording wouldn't exactly work even if it did. The meaning of targeting is very precise - only the person you're directly casting the spell at is a target.  Effects that prevent being targeted or trigger on targeting only apply to that one creature.  Everyone else is affected normally.  MA Anathe 22:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)