Talk:Wastrel's Collapse

Haha, haha, hahahahha, ahahahha, AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH, this skill must be a joke!--71.240.81.195 20:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No really, it isnt --Cursed Angel 20:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is.

I want to make a build around this skill, if the effect end prematurely do they still get KDed?


 * please sign using 4 ~'s and no it says after 5 seconds --«º¤¥Ω☼Vørråx☼Ω¥¤º» 21:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * wait, you're right! ô0 didn't notice until yet that it acts like Wastrel's Worry >.<. Oh my, this even tops "Incoming!". —Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 17:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Incoming WAS good, until it got triple (maybe double or quardruple) nerfed. But this is just horrible.  Worst skill int eh game IMO, not jus the worst elite skill. ---  Ressmonkey (talk)  02:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, buff please! This skill wouldn't even be worth taking as a normal skill. LunarEffect 08:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * wasted collapse 87.189.229.116 00:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

What could make it good is if it ended prematurely on using an elite skill, not just any skill. -- Hong 01:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * nice idea, that won't happen that often and could finally convert this into a nice skill. —Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 15:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this skill is a joke. The only way to actually use this skill is casting it and than blackout the target, but than your worthless for the next five seconds which defeats the purpose of being an assassin or having assassin secondary.Highway Man 03:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Even then, congrats you've knocked down your foe. It only took you 5 seconds and 10, 15 en? (not sure blackouts cost), used up two skill slots (one being elite), and you did no damage. Barkingllama 05:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Addition to Articles
Would it be against wiki code to perhaps list strategies or hints for using skills like this? I like that one person's idea of using it to lure someone into Diversion or another related skill! It should be on the main article so people don't say "This skill is bullcrap." and ignore it. Or other skills like Frenzy (carrying another stance to end it when you start getting hit).

lame tag?
lame tag? 96.240.137.64 23:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This doesn't deserve it. IMO this either needs to be completely reworked or removed from the game. Barkingllama 05:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

"needs to be completely reworked or removed from the game." thats why lame tags go up

Hehe, I think Barkingllama was implying that it wasn't even 'worthy' enough for lame tag. - Elder Angelus 19:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

buff ?
IMO make it a skill and change the skill description so it knocks down when the hex ends.Wether it lasts its full duration or not.Lilondra 20:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, this is just a ghey useless hex and that won't really change it. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  14:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It would as you would get a knock like each few secunds.And there spell would be interrupted as they where knocked down.+they cant use a other spell to counter it as they are disabled for 2 secs.


 * try target foe is hexed with this spell, after 3 seconds they are knocked down and you shadowstep tho their location, this skill ends early if target for uses a skill, if this hex ends prematurely target foe is knocked down and takes 50dmg
 * possibly link to DA or SA, 10..40..50 dmg or wutever and 3..2..2 seconds durataion, actually would make an elite, id advise anet to make this normal and make another sin elite, (dissapear)(no aggro bubble)

Annoying And Deadly 23:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC) Maybe make the hex last an infinite amount of time and KD when removed? Sexy cover hex anyone?

Maybe make the hex last an infinite amount of time and kd when removed? sort of an insane cover hex?71.120.181.88 20:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guys, this is an elite skill! Why it doesn't have a unconditional knockdown? Now it is really a joke. Not worth taking. Everyone is using skills, you this won't knockdown anyone, unless your timing is perfect of course, but none is. So yes, this skill needs a buff. I would like to use this skill, but only with a small buff. Now I just s*cks. F. C. Sauër 23:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Ensuring the KD?
If The knock down was ensured, then it would actually be worth the freaking elite slot. Ninjas In The Sky 08:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * you're telling me. I despise this skill. not even going to try for it. [[Image:User-Wandering Traveler Sig.png]] Wandering Traveler 06:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, it's pretty easy to guarantee KD with this. Catch someone on aftercast if you really need to make sure it lands.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  10:53, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Disregard that; cocks, etc. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  11:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I totally agree, how dare ANet require us to use a bit of skill to abuse overpowered skills. Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 11:07, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps...
-Using this as an incentive to get people caught by diversion? definitely still wont deserve it's elite status, but i didn't see anyone mention that possibility... 69.65.215.59 14:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * and shame, guilt, mistrust? helpful if u have interrupts too i guess. --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 14:47, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

perhaps if they changed it so it knocked down all foes in the area and had only a duration of 2 secs and ends when a foe uses a skill.. it might be decent and worth the elite slot then--Arrythmia 04:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Or after 5 seconds knockdown, but only ends if it is removed. Justing6 13:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless this gets a complete makeover, I think all we'll see of this skill's use is to knock down leechers in RA, TA, FA, and AB. :P --[[Image:User-Wandering Traveler Sig.png]] Wandering Traveler 02:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd use this if it teleported you to foe when it succeeded. Halogod35 02:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Id most definantly use this skill if it also shadow stepped you to foe, might be nice if it had a 3-4 sec KD too.

At least if this had 1 sec recharge like Wastrel's, it might be worth it. Nobody has mentioned that the recharge on this skill sucks. This should either always KD, shadowstep, last 3 sec, or have 1 second recharge. Lightning Surge. That is all. 208.117.81.202 15:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC) How about this: Same cost and what not. Ends when target foe uses skill or 5seconds is up, causes KD for the duration it lasted on foe (max4 seconds). if under 2 seconds foe is only interupted.--Justice 19:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Shadow step would help, but more useful would be that always last 5 seconds and if anything just doesnt knock them down at the end of it if they use a skill, that way u may not get a knockdown but you still get a cheep, spamable hex to use at begining of your attack chain. I dont think both would be too much to ask from an elite skill, but if they did add shadow step they'd have to incress recharge otherwise you be able to spam too easyly. Another option may just be a small cripple at the end of it even if they use a skill ie. Elite Hex Spell. After 5 seconds, target foe is crippled for 5 seconds. If target has not used a skill before this hex they are also knocked down. --89.243.253.90 07:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Underpowered
Tagged as Underpowered. Raine Valen 16:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That category no longer exists; see here for the current page. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  03:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I got bored, and found a great way to annoy things:  Raine  - talk  15:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Update
Ohh... now THIS looks like it could be interesting. No idea for combos as of yet, but say... disrupting dagger followed by this. No idea, but this needs to be toyed around with a bit. Kelvin Greyheart 02:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Stonefist Insignia Abuse.
 * And for the record, this totally killed one of my builds. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Update didn't mention it, but recharged changed to 20s, updated wiki --GodofJur 03:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mandragor's Charge anyone? I really like this skill now :P
 * Btw: Did anyone test yet if it has a doubled aftercast? Vortex  ™  04:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, this is overpowered.
 * Wastrel's Collapse -> Blackout. 157.193.8.238 11:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Too bad you can't since all non-dagger skills are disabled. PowerGamer 19:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * All non-dagger ATTACK SKILLS are disabled. Spells, signets etc. are NOT disabled. Try it out. 78.20.40.181 20:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, no aftercast as this is an elite skill, point blank AoE elementalist should be back (quick aftershock after shadowstep, then crystalwave). Right? SamoK 15:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Ooo...unlinked knockdown. Diversion -> Collapse -> Blackout 129.65.108.82 20:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

12345678 GG 67.234.6.254 23:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

the non dagger attack skill thing could be intentional, to prevent abuse from scythe sins. just a thought O.o...--Metal Sazz 14:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I only just realized that it doesn't disable all non-dagger skills, only non-dagger attack skills.. Yay! It could be mentioned in the notes section, what do you say? Also, the disable is there for the sake of what Hammer's etc could do lol.. Starting a fight with a shadow step kd is kinda unfair as it is. --Chaos Messenger 20:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * My mistake. Wow, that opens up a whole new potential for things to do with this build.  I'm looking forward to using it now that I realize how few drawbacks it really has. PowerGamer 04:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Holy Strike, anyone? <>96.8.185.183 01:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Lose out on IAS for speccing into a shitty attribute? Noty Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 01:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * When did they say Holy Strike on a dagger sin? Hell, they didn't even say A/Mo. This is unlinked after-all. 173.67.9.113 14:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's totally effective - a 60AL smiting monk teleporting every 20 seconds to cause ~100 holy damage. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 14:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * TA shove spike? 68.202.136.112 14:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Anomaly
I'm removing the note about Wastrel's collapse disabling Bull's Strike and not Impale, because Impale is a skill and not an Attack. 4.225.90.230 05:48, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Range vs Action
Say a SF ele vs a Collapse sin:

Both are standing outside their max aggro range, and the ele hits SF, and the sin WC and they start running at each other to get within casting range. When WC triggers, would it cause KD on the ele? 67.234.6.254 17:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * can't KD skill chaining, ele doesn't get KD'd but the sins chain might punish the ele.. Then again, this situation probably won't happen, and if it does, it's either crap for the sin who's prepared for a KD'd foe, or if the sin is better it has more options for chains. --Chaos Messenger 18:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * if both queue a skill before getting into activation range, the sin will never KD unless its a mesmer casting an 1/4 spell or a HCT triggers on an 1/4 spell. just wait for aftercast then use WC to ensure KD.
 * get a guildy together and test that interested to see whats up70.6.14.153 23:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Removing anomaly
Removing anomaly about no KD in aftercast, fixed here--Glory 23:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

KD on adjactent?
anyone else notice that this will KD foes not adjacent, but like right on each other, i mean very close together, if both meet the condition for this skill i have notice this will knockdown both sometimes, anyone want to look into this a bit more?--Metal Sazz 23:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Likely it was just one of your teammates knocking down the other person, I have never seen this knock down more than one person at a time. (And I use it a lot on my sin.) <>Sparky, the Tainted 13:04, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

On side note...
This skill has one of the best energy/recharge shadow steps to use. (in order by recharge, then energy) and compare that to:
 * (+Upkeep)
 * (Can't use other stance)
 * (Can't use other stance)
 * (Can't use other stance)
 * (+Knockdown) = WIN. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 00:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Power creepan. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, half of those skills aren't elite, and those which are elite do other stuff. -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Aftercast
does this skill have it? ··· cedave  16:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope, and it's quite overpowered. --99.2.138.209 23:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What pro's do is time a skill for the 1/4s cast :> I remember Returning to an ally when I suspected the sin was gonna tele :> He tele'd to me and I tele'd to the ally without getting kd'd x) -- -Ch  ao  s-   08:47, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Time it during aftercast. Using this immediately on getting in range is stupid.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  23:58, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Why do people hate this skill?
I mean it's a low energy cost knockdown with an easy pre-req. I dont get it.24.6.69.206 20:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * i don't know what you mean, after the change it's one of the beat shadowstep a sin can get-- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|20x20px]] 20:20, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * sure now it is but i'm talking before the update, i still thought it was good yet at the top of the page nobody likes it. i guess its just a personal preference.24.6.69.206 20:59, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * oh ok then, the old one was like Wastrel's Worry, but not as spamable, and unpredictiable with the knockdown(and for a sin to time his attack based off something not predictible, not favored). and with worry you can both punish for not using a skill and using a skill if you combo it with Backfire or Visions of Regret. sins don't have much skill to punish like mesmer does.-- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|20x20px]] 21:05, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Previously it was a hex that knockdowned upon using a dual attack. The function was different. You can check the page history to see the old function. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 10:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's Mark of Instability.
 * Wastrel's Collapse was a hex spell that knocked down a foe if they didn't use any skills for five seconds. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  12:05, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Oic. Random revision. Lovely note. --  -Chaos- (talk) -- 12:10, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

recharge and the aftercast
are the things that kill this from being used in high end pvp. you may say the KD makes the aftercast negligible but in high end pvp where aura of stability and balanced stance are pretty common-mostly for dev hammers, it makes a difference. Recharge also makes it less useable and something like black mantis thrust will end up having to wait for recharge or another hex. in high end pvp you do things like split so that other hexes aren't readily available and in low end pvp you can't rely on others to even have a hex. Then again maybe this skill was never meant to be used for high end pvp-but just thought i'd tell you exactly why this isn't as effective. Roflmaomgz 21:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Explanation on note
The note:

The skill disables non-dagger attack skills, rather than non-dagger attack skills.

The two possible meanings

non-dagger attack skills. This means any attack skill that is not a dagger attack.

non-dagger attack skills. Means any skill that is not a dagger attack.

Is this the correct interpretation? I am just trying to make it easier to understand the note.

--Abbess Katherine 07:02, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * That's right. Let me see if I can rephrase it... | 7  2   User_72_Truly_Random.jpg | 11:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC)