User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Overpowered Skills/Dervish/Archive 1

Again, in an arena context the synergy this skill has with Signet of Pious Light is just too good. About half of the assassins I see in arena or AB contexts bring Vital Boon + Signet of Pious Light over Feigned Neutrality. At 8 spec in earth prayers this is ~235hp healed every 8 seconds and the cost is 5e. Yes, once you see vital boon go off d-shotting the signet is easy but I'm still not convinced that this skill is balanced. --66.245.217.162 00:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Only because Feigned Neutrality pretty much sucks if you think about it. The recharge is long, the duration is short and you can't use anyskills.-- §  Eloc   §  02:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Either way, Vital Boon + Signet of Pious Light is a bad combo. It takes 2 skill slots and it requires a 3.5 second investment including both aftercasts. --TimeToGetIntense 02:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would think you would pre-cast Vital Boon rather than wait until you need it. I don't really think it's overpowered though. It is the best self-healing I can think of with such a low attribute requirement, but 2 skill slots is a pretty big price. skaspaakssa 02:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I run pious light+boon in AB all the time...it's enough to keep my war alive up to 4 enemies beating on me. The rate at which you can heal is ridiculous, especially on a hard target.  I think Sig pious light is a bigger problem than vital boon, however, because you can turn any half-dervish into a healbot when someone else is throwing enchants on you.  Boon is cheap, but its recharge kills its mass healing abilities, SPL doesn't have that problem. Shard 04:22, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Not overpowered. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:210.9.137.97.


 * Seriously, even suggesting this skill is epic failure. Readem   Sorry, I'll stop trolling now.  07:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I haven't had an arena or AB match in months without seeing this skill. It's in _every_ game and every class that uses enchantments brings it as a (virtually) permanent massive heal. This isn't as relevant in tombs (HA now I guess) or GvG but it's pretty imba for arena type fights where there isn't extremely heavy enchant removal. The problem I have with the skill is that it's extremely difficult to keep up with the cast rate; with Corrupt Enchantment, Gaze of Contempt and one more random removal (rip enchant, drain enchant) it's still a fulltime job just shutting down the healing from one non elite skill - the only option I see here to really shut these guys down is either a high spec backfire/diversion or well of the profane.

IMO the duration should scale with earth prayers at something like 5..11..13 (1/12/15). --66.245.217.162 00:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree. This skill is not a problem at all. If anything, the self-heals of most professions are simply too weak, so they opt for the best self-heal a secondary can offer. --TimeToGetIntense 02:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * So what you're saying is that this fast cycle self heal should be able to outpace an elite enchantment strip? The problem IMO isn't the skill itself, it's the synergy it has with other extremely beneficial enchantments, like, oh i don't know, heart of fury and/or heart of holy flame, or perhaps vital boon, or maybe an elemental attunement plus some form of haste. Stripping huge enchantment stacks just isn't viable without a very small handful of dedicated spells, and one of them only works if the target is stupid enough to walk into a well. --Pork soldier 02:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Those are mostly terrible enchants to use this with. I can see an attune and maybe aura of resto (for AB), but unless you're outright abusing it, you wouldn't have too many enchantments. The most I can see happening to this spell is 1s cast (which would be beneficial tbh). - Auron 02:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What I'm getting at in a very roundabout way is that I see a lot of people abusing this skill in a variety of places. --Pork soldier 03:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Overuse is not abuse. I believe this skill may be overused, but that's because there aren't very good healing options in general. Organized teams rely mostly on damage mitigation and most of the actual healing comes from Light of Deliverance or from the conditional heals Protection Prayers offers. Healing Prayers and most self-heals are just so bad. But this skill is actually good. --TimeToGetIntense 04:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If this skill is good and the others are bad then this skill is out of balance --Pork soldier 07:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It may be out of balance with other self heals, but its not out of balance within the entire scope of the game, and it's not overpowered. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 10:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree. In an arena context this skill *is* overpowered, even as a cover enchantment, simply because 99.5% of removal can't shut it down. Think about this: for 8 spec in earth prayers an elementalist can cover an attune and another useful enchantment with something that cycles so fast you can't strip it without a highly specialized bar. This cover also provides +9 (+3*3) regen while it's up, is non elite and casts nearly instantly making it virtually uninterruptible. I fail to see how this is balanced - please explain. --Pork soldier 14:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Despite liking the skill i think youre right, at 8 earth it almost always gives 9 regen to builds that use it compared to similar skills which give around 6-7 regen for the same cost. More importantly, the more specialized the build is, the higher that gets... Sadly a scale where 10-12 maybe even 13 points are needed for the +3 would bring this skill into better balance imho. This way it still can be stacked but requires a much higher investment in a skillbar, and requires an active commitment to enchantment stacking. --Midnight08 15:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the skill too, I just don't think it's balanced in it's current form. It's too easy to stack too high with too little invested. Right now it behaves like a self-targeted non-elite shield of regen that lasts for 20 seconds and cycles in 5 - for the effect this should be an elite skill. This skill is passive; we've all agreed that fire and forget passive defense is not what's good for gameplay. --Pork soldier 16:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I know people aren't going to like me for saying this...but things don't and shouldn't get balanced for Arena use! Sure it's very good in arena's, so are a lot of arena specific builds. The game should be balanced for the high end PvP (GvG, and to some extent HA) and the PvE side of it. Sincxe the skill doesnt see abuse in any of these areas i feel that Nerfing it because of its Arena PvP use would possibly just hurt its use elsewhere. -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 18:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Mystic Regeneration is heavily abused in farming builds, that is already well known - it's also abused to tank absurdly hard enemies in hard mode (D/E, obs flesh, stoneflesh, armor of earth, mystic regen, etc.. O Hi, I have +15 regen now and I'm immune to spells). The skill is too good all around, the only time it's not good is when there is extremely heavy enchantment strip available - ie: well of the profane, OaA, shatter/drain spam by multiple enemies, etc. I know _you_ don't think it's imbalanced Chronic but it is so heavily used in every scenario other than high end PvP that it probably _is_. --Pork soldier 19:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I should also note that you still haven't demonstrated why you think the skill _is_ balanced, please do so instead of just stating that it is. I know that sounds confrontational but I'd like to know what your reasoning is, so far I haven't heard anything other than "because it is" or "skills shouldn't be balanced around arenas." It's a cool skill, I agree, but where most self heals are something like a 7 out of 10 this one is closer to 15 out of 10. --Pork soldier 19:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, this skill doesn't cause any problems that I know of. I play a lot of RA as well as GvG. People who use Mystic Regeneration aren't terribly difficult to kill. People who stack defensive enchantments, of course, are difficult to kill, but they aren't a threat. Characters who have lots of damage and disruption are a threat. --TimeToGetIntense 20:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So In your opinion a fire mage who stacks mystic regen + fire attune + aura of restoration and then starts nuking with searing flames/glowing gaze/liquid flame isn't a threat? ;-) --Pork soldier 20:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You are confusing 'USE' with 'Abuse' it's also abused to tank absurdly hard enemies in hard mode thats Using it, not abusing it! And tbh i have no reason to state that a skill is balanced, you are the one trying to state that it is imba, and as a lot of people have said it's not overpowered. It's not being run by hundreds of people at a time, it's not wiping out people leaving them nochance to do anything, it DOESN'T make them invincible! (by the way...check the cap on regen before you say they have 15 regen!) so therefore it is NOT imba, simple as! -- ChronicinabilitY [[Image:User Chronicinability Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|18px]] 21:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The SF Ele with Mystic Regen, no, not a large threat. A weak character in comparison to most GvG splittable characters. --TimeToGetIntense 21:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I gank these guys on a pretty regular basis - the thing that bothers me is that they get such a big heal out of this skill compared to anything else, especially if they're also using flame djinn's haste. --Pork soldier 22:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we're both aware that while pips caps at +/-10 and that this only kicks in after both degen and regen are totaled. Your opinion that "things shouldn't get balanced for arena use" is fine but I disagree. You haven't yet stated that arenas and AB aren't valid forms of pvp so I'll save you the trouble, they are part of the game and therefore game skills shouldn't be IMBA in those contexts. "a lot of people have said it's not overpowered" Since when is 2 a lot ;-) ?
 * Seriously, you haven't addressed any question I've put to you - I'm going to conclude that either A: you're trolling, or B: you like to use the skill and are defending it in a disingenuous fashion. I like the skill too, it's great, but it's too good the way it is - if it were elite then I'd have no problem with it. I agree that the skill isn't instaganking people, what it is doing is making the game more dull (o hei, SP sin, o hei, mystic regen dervish, o hei, SF ele) and if you don't think that hundreds of people are using this skill then you haven't seen RA, TA or AB recently. IMBA non-elite regen isn't the answer to degen IMO. --Pork soldier 22:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd be surprised if this skill was the problem. The energy intensive nature of such builds is where the problem lies, as their ability to draw energy in such amounts is how they keep themselves alive. Ripping their enchantments forces them to expend a large amount of energy to regain their footing, and if they are able to, then that itself is the problem, not Mystic Regeneration. If, however, those energy management skills are balanced with respect to the game as a whole, then Mystic Regeneration could be dropped to 1..3 regen per enchant (instead of 1..4) OR reduced to a 10 second duration (thereby doubling the upkeep cost from 1.5 pips to 3). As it is though, I don't see Mystic Regeneration as a problem, because you have to remember that Guild Wars is balanced for 8v8. Arenas are problematic due to the limited skillbars and relative experience of other players forcing utility slots out and favouring health management (or resurrection signets). In AB they are either ignored or ganked. --Kale Ironfist 01:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * OP is right, this skill is overpowered and has been since release. This skill is really damn good.  Personally, I think capping the positive regen at 10 pips would take care of it (the fact that you can very realistically still have +10 regen after being nailed with significant degen is a bit ridiculous.)  Adding some time to the recharge probably wouldn't be a bad idea either.  It could easily have a 10r and still be very powerful. -Warskull 04:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'm all for moving it to the Mysticism line rather than Earth Dargon 05:11, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I just think it could use a real recharge so that enchantment removal did something. At 10/.25/5, it's basically something that you can't fight and need to just power through, which is stupid. -Ensign 06:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it needs to be changed to 10/1/15, if not then 10/2/10. Both make removal and interrupt viable counters. First suggestion makes removal stronger against it, second makes interrupt stronger against it. --Deathwing 07:09, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * @Ensign- that's my problem with the skill, you have to brute force it and cross your fingers that you can burn through their energy before they beat you down. What sucks is the cycle time on Mystic Regen + Vital Boon, there's no way to strip these as fast as they can go back up. --Pork soldier 12:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The skill's also sexy on a dual attune air ele. Pluto 22:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This skill's also sexy on an Order of Undeath minion master with Dark Bond and Infuse Condition, you can spam OoD without penalty. My MM hero absolutely owns pve with it. --Tankity Tank 02:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nerf of this skill is past due. It is overused. It is overpowered. It is abused by other professions. It is used for solo farming. This combined with Armor of Sanctity makes the Dervish impossible to kill with some RA/TA teams that lack enchantment removal. Sometimes I am able to solo whole teams because they can dish out enough damage to kill me. Those 2 skills are incredibly difficult to interrupt (1/4 casting time). --Shadetz X 08:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What about "For 20 seconds, you have + Health regeneration for each Enchantment on you (maximum of +)."? -- Gordon Ecker 02:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This isn't overpowered don't worry about this wall of text above. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:210.9.137.97.
 * Quite a few people disagree with you. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 13:55, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Mystic regen encourages degenerate gameplay (mindless enchant stacking as fuel), please change it. --Tankity Tank 00:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Mindless is an understatement once GWEN comes out. With Withering Aura all enchantments can be covered cheaply, and weakness can be applied constantly buffing Dervish's melee resistence even further; in addition, Withering Aura will be used as a fuel for Signet of Pious Light every 3 seconds. With Armor of Sanctity Dervishes have an insane defense and 9 or more health regen. --216.113.208.132 01:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Mystic Regeneration *is* overpowered. I've tried it myself (on ele) and the skill felt so strong. Just because you can kill the target doesn't mean anything, so please stop with such arguments. When discussing whether a skill is overpowered or not, it should be compared to alternatives. The "You're not invincible with Mystic Regen, therefore skill isn't overpowered" is not a valid argument. Servant of Kali 09:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not, this skill is only scary on dual attunement builds, and is really the only reason they are somewhat viable anymore. This is like saying a 55 is overpowered because he can survive everything barring enchant removal/life steal. Now the rate of regen.... its eh, you would have to load up your bar with enchants. They nerfed the armor buffs, the characters are useless without damage, so all they really do is stand around and do nothing. Only reasonable change I can see is something like an 8-10 second recharge.--Atlas Oranos 09:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

mystic regenteration should be moved to mysticism, it's too much of and advantge for non-dervish types. it often ends in a stalemate as well.


 * This skill makes Healing Breeze look like a joke. Oh, wait... Shard 11:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Of the above comments, I think the talk of how difficult this enchantment is to strip is most telling. Likewise the casting time makes it extremely difficult to interrupt. The combination of these two effects makes the skill difficult to counter-- it'll just be reapplied or covered. Fixing one or both of these problems will make it much easier to counter, bringing its extremely powerful effects into line. If the desire is not to have it be counter-able easily, then I would suggest a shorter duration and higher cost, but I think countering is better for the game as it provokes more thought and activity.--24.128.87.220 02:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

It is overpowered. Think about it, every profession like uses it...geez, all of my Dad's RP characters use it...and he has 9 of them! Also, 55 Monks use it, and pretty much everyone.-- §  Eloc   §  01:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * well I don't use it because it sucks 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1 second cast so you can interrupt it kthx izzy. Shard 02:31, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My problem with this skill is the skill recharge - there is NO point at all in removing it because it goes right back up which is ridiculous. If I could strip it without some skill like Gaze of Contempt I wouldn't have a problem but as it is it's too powerful when they can just recast 5 seconds later. Assuming it stays up no-one will be bothers by a 20 second recharge and that gives opponents a reason to strip it, atm it's simply too powerful. I disagree with moving it, just give us a way to counter it which makes sense - stripping it. 58.110.142.117 00:31, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

DPS > Regen Readem   Hate Mail Goes Here  00:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with an above poster. 1/4 sec cast time is too quick. 1 second would be better. Increasing the recharge because it comes back up so quickly is silly since you can do the same for healing breeze if anyone actually used that. But Breeze can actually be interrupted while this cannot be unless you get a lucky interrupt.--Zarfol 05:36, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I really think this belongs on Dervish, and any other profession who secondaries it too. Dervish does not have all the utility of other melee or attack professions, they offer some moderate spell damage, and powerful enchantment removal options, but have less condition application and no stance removal or interrupt.  A Dervish original function is to be able to survive prime time attention from a group of foes, and dish out damage to punish grouped foes, and I think they have already done enough damage to that function, removing their survival value is a mistake.


 * This skill does offer some powerful enchantment synergy, but by itself it cost just as much as healing breeze, and only heals 3 pips of regen, and it only works on oneself, the value of using healing spells on others to save the foe who is being targeted by damage can not be undervalued, self targeting is very restricting. With multiple enchantments it can offer 9 and 10 regen, and even counter degen, but that requires multiple enchantments, those things arn't free, and Dervish is design to benifit from enchantment use, this isn't broken, it is designed that way.  The use of multiple enchantments to hold up a powerful regeneration bonus is an acceptable option for Dervish.


 * Now if it is too powerful for other professions, it can be moved to Mysticism, but I think this is a prime example of what Dervish has to offer as a secondary, it's survival and PBAoE spells and conditions. This may be a difficult function to break down, but there are some mighty strong enchantment removal features in the game now, Shattering Assault, Grenth and his twin moons..... grenth with daggers (shudders).  Unless the foe is running this with another 2 enchantments which also have quick cast times, there is alot of room for casting interruption, also some strong degen can render the regeneration ineffective, making it fairly easy to kill them, burning alone offers a pretty good counter.  And since I tolk down some Elementist spamming MR repeatedly with poison, bleeding, DW from my Assassin just recently, I'm saying so from testing, it may make this an unfriendly target to take on, but it in no way makes them invulnerable to a spike.  I faced the same elementist in the next battle and I had Dazed/Blind + Bleeding/DW, and also tolk her down.  I could see this roled together with conviction and Melundru, or this mixed with Balthazar as a touch task to take on, but it is a tough task, not a broken skill.--BahamutKaiser 06:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Needs a longer recharge + cast time.


 * Any change to this skill is only going to hit the dervish who uses it not the other professions who abuse it. Change it to Mysticism and this would solve it. Ajax Baby Eater 08:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm really behind the idea of putting a skill with Mystic in the name in the Mysticism line.137.222.211.141 16:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Just like Mystic Sweep right?..... Mystic is the prefix used to describe effect based on enchantments for Dervish.--BahamutKaiser 20:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Putting this in mysticism would actually be a buff imo, less attribute spreading needed to have this one skill. And it would effectively kill the whole abuse by eles.--Atlas Oranos 02:35, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

2
I notice it's in the archive, but it was never addressed. Has a duration 4 times its recharge and a cast time that is non-interruptable essentially. Can't be dealt with by stripping the enchant and very difficult interrupt. Setting recharge to closer to the duration and lengthening the cast time would be a welcome change, which wouldn't affect its health output. 20 second recharge, 0.75 casting time would still be pretty fast casting time and easily allows maintaining it with an enchanting wrapping. --Epinephrine 17:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you can't beat someone with + 10 regen, get out of pvp.Prokiller88 22:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not the 10 regen, it's the 10 regen when stacked with Stoneflesh Aura and Armor of Earth, or Conviction and Mirage Cloak, etc. A hard armour boost, Damage Reduction or Block (or both), AND 10 pips is a heafty defense. 198.53.176.173 22:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't say I can't beat it, but depending on your build it can be a pain. Just because something can be beaten doesn't mean it's not overpowered. --Epinephrine 18:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats like saying blind is overpowered against an assassin. Prokiller88 23:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Enchantment removal. Antiarchangel 14:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Few enchantment removals can come close to keeping up. As mentioned, the existence of counters doesn't mean that a skill isn't overpowered.  1 second or 0.75 second casting time would make it interruptable, like essentially every other self heal is, and a longer recharge time would allow it to be removed for more than 3 seconds at a time by use of disenchants.  Either a 0.75 second cast time, with a long recharge (15, 20 seconds) or a 1 second cast time (easier to interrupt) with a moderate recharge time (10, 12 seconds) would be appropriate.  --Epinephrine 17:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Seriously the only good thing regen is good for is countering degen. The fact that it's in Earth Prayers limits it enough already, not to mention it's only target self and has to be at least 8 to be worthwhile. Antiarchangel 01:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's a suggestion, before you suggest enchantment removal as an effective counter why don't you roll an enchantment removal character and go try to kill an E/D or D/*. It's not as straightforward as you'd like it to be. --Tankity Tank 21:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Rend Enchantments on E/D, get your shock ax to unload, dead E/D tank. Your all also missing the point, tanks don't work in PvP. It's like the same thing as a 55 or shadow form sin, annoying to hell, but useless in real combat. Antiarchangel 14:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And as I said before, +10 regen is not going to stop a spike. Antiarchangel 14:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think we're arguing that the amount of healing is too much, it's that you can't strip enchants fast enough, and you won't catch it on an interrupt. It should be one or the other, or a bit of both; either have a long enough recharge that getting it stripped hurts (15-20 seconds), or a long enough casting time to give a reasonable chance at interrupting it (1 second), or a bit of each (0.75 seconds casting time, 10-12 second recharge).  I'm not suggesting nerfing the actual healing (though you could do that and it'd still be strong), just to make it removable somehow.  It's so much better than virtually any heal you can get on 8 invested in an attribute, especially given that enchantments are so common.  If you already have a couple of enchants it presents a 9 pip, 20(24 with 20% enchanting) second long heal for 10 energy that essentially can't be interrupted and can be replaced fast if stripped, it's a bit much.  --Epinephrine 16:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * (reset)They aren't just pure tanks, E/Ds with this can devote a couple skills to tanking and the rest to pouring out damage. Also, your suggestion of rend->unload shockaxe spike applies well to HA and GvG, but this skill's potency shows through in less organized PvP, namely RA and AB.  Such a strategy is impossible to coordinate in such fields, and so is not a valid counter.  Regen won't stop a spike, and won't hold up to serious stripping, but neither is present on the same stage as this.  That's like saying that you should drop Pain Inverter on him and watch him kill himself. --  Arkhar  23:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * RA/AB balance isn't a priority, but Mystic Regeneration is potent even in GvG on a split-friendly player, using a running enchantment for example and a second enchantment from their profession. Without requiring much else they can gain 9 pips of regen on an easily re-applied cover enchant that can't really be interrupted, enough to help a lot on a split (E/D Mind Blast for splits as an example, or an air version).  I'm not saying that it's game breaking, but it's a lot of health on a small investment/budget for such builds.  The ability to actually strip it or to interrupt it would mean that it could be dealt with at least in theory in 3vs3 split situations (as an example).  --Epinephrine 23:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the amount is capped to +9 regen, but it's still not really strippable or interruptable. --Epinephrine 02:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Again i feel that izzy is ignoring pve.. this just makez it more boring for us pve'rz and ruinz a ton of our farming buildz were as pve is suppose to be fun, again izzy plz take pve into consideration with your nerfs itz really making the game shitty in pve 24.238.94.19 02:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What about Clumsiness and Wandering Eye? Anyway, I think that this should be archived after the nerf. -- Gordon Ecker 03:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The 1/2 second activation time really bugs me. All fast-activating Dervish attacks to date have 3/4, whcih makes more sense to me. Half second is for fast weapons, scythes are not fast. Heck, Agonizing Chop and Critical Chop both got cut to 1 second recently, and I thought axes were supposed to be faster than Scythes. I see no reason why this shouldn't be normal speed, or at least 3/4. --  Arkhar  22:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is still expensive to use and on 12 second recharge not really spammable. I would leave as is, so we at least have some chance of seeing different Dervish builds in the 8v8 meta. --CRASH 23:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's still just as practical at normal speed or 3/4. 1/2 seems to be an odd and nonsensical number to use for little added benefit.--  Arkhar  18:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Give it a week and it will have 3/4. Prokiller88 01:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Enchantment removal is not that a big a deal on a ritualist. That is why you see this on rit runners with Dervish Secondaries. This needs to have duration and recharge upped (proportionally) to be viable on the profession it was meant for. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 01:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats like asking warriors to stop using shock, rangers to stop using mending touch, assassins to stop using an Ias(I support that btw). Pious Haste can be used on any secondary why did you only mention rits?


 * No. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  03:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

this skill is far from being overpowered, it's good the way it is now 189.70.208.9 18:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)