Talk:Zaishen Menagerie Grounds

Buying a pet
When you buy a pet from Helena with Balthazar Faction you only unlock the level 5 pet. 24.21.134.171 07:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Death Leveling comments

 * May be worth to note that, even if they aggro, pets will not attack, so it's not possible to deathlevel them (at least the Jingle Bear didn't). Not sure if a charmed pet killing one of the summoned ones can gain experience.--Fighterdoken 08:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I was attacked by the ones spawned by Wynn [Zaishen Training Captain] when I tried to charm them. Paddymew 16:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This is consistent with past behavior. Animals always get angry when you try to take away their freedom by charming them. Tennessee Ernie Ford 16:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * you can death level the ones spawned by Wynn if you have a hero with a hard res Saraphim Angel 21:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Confirmed that. But since the summoned ones are level 12, you still would need to train one yourself if you want to go for the dire evolution most of the time. Good for the rainbow phoenix i think, but the others are easier to deathlevel on their own spot. Confirmed they don't give exp on death also.--Fighterdoken 21:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You can actually buy evolutions for the pet using Z Coins or Balth Faction. Once you have bought the animal, or brought a lower level one to the menagerie, just talk to Helena again and she will evolve the pet type for a cost Lynx Raven Raide 01:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You CAN death level the lvl 5 pets. If you make them hostile (harm them, attack them anything) they will indeed not attack you, but if then kill yourself, they will lvl up as long as they are within aggro range. This is FULLY confirmed (I DLed more then 20 pets this way) Hope it helps 86.80.183.215 22:44, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you evolve them to dire this way? It doesn't seem like it, because they're not actually doing the damage...Wombatt 21:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree - I death leveled almost every lvl 5 pet in the place with a PvP character, a vampiric weapon, and a team of fast res'ing heroes. I'd start to charm the level 5 version and cancel.  That turns it hostile, but (as others have said) they do not attack.  Still, once hostile they do gain experience from my vampiric-weapon-induced deaths.  They evolve as Hearty while I'm afk for 20-30 min.  Once they're 20, I finish charming them and show Emryd.  Doing so unlocks Level 20 Hearty and Dire versions and everything below for that kind of animal.  So it's not possible to evolve Dire ones this way, but doing this will make it so Wynn will provide Dire versions.  LicensedLuny 21:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks for the info. Also, I've been afk for about an hour, the white crabs are at lvl 6, the reef lurkers are at lvl 9.  What reason could there be for such a long time needed, and also the disparity in leveling-up?  Party size (I have a mes for rez and a R hero to get another pet unlocked).  Is this slowing me down, too?  I'm thinking yes...75.170.159.89 23:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kill all but the pets you are actually going to charm. They do share XP, and the larger the party (more animals of that type) the more sharing, and the less XP per animal.  I'm going to take a wild guess and say that there were more white crabs than reef lurkers in your situation.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  23:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 3 lurkers, 2 crabs, actually. In 3 hours, the crabs went to lvl 8 and the lurkers to lvl 13.  Strange.  At any rate, they're all dead now, except for 1 crab.  I'll post more info later to reflect the rate after thinning out the herd
 * Um, wow... Why is it taking you so long? [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  09:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Position yourself in the right spot, if the pet wanders out of range they stop getting the experience. Go in with low health (sup runes) and get down to 1 health and force the hero use res's which attempt to res you with <50% health - so you die straight away without needing damage (I use a vampiric weapon to start off). However, make sure you have a res which gives greater than 50% health to actually res you and allow a weapon switch when you want the pet. Bring energy management on your me/mo or bring a second monk. It is best not to go in a 55 because that can cause a bug where your energy gets stuck at 0 despite graphically appearing to regenerate.  Hopefully you'll be able to go a bit faster than 3 hours! :) --Aspectacle 09:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

(reset indent) My guess is that he spends a lot of time degenerating between resurrections. Try to minimize the time you spend alive, use resurrection skills that leave you with little health, minimize your overall health (or the heroes you're sacrificing), bring more heroes to die, etc. - Kherec 09:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont have quite the same problem but i do have something similar in that some things are taking longer to lvl up than other. I think ive worked it out though. I think it has something to do with the number of baby version of the animal. The crane has only 1 baby version where as flamingos have loads and my crane is shooting up in lvl's whereas my flamingo is trailing quite far behind. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 08:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I DLed more then 20 different pets. What works best for me is only one specie at a time, and only one of them (kill the rest) then you take a full armor filled with superior, kill yourself (vamp weapon + necro sac skills) to get 15 DP, and then remove one piece of armor, kill yourself again, and get the piece of armor again. Now you have 1hp, as long as your heroes use hard resses with less than 50% health, you get killed immediatly again. If your pet is lvl 20, either make one of them use res signet, or simply a res with more than 50% health (disable it while DLing) you can get them in less then 20 minutes (with use of Me/Mo's) The only thing that had effect on the experience the pet got, was if it was or wasnt in MY aggro cirkel, NON of my pets lvl ONCE while out of the cirkel, (and i watched about the first 5, thats 75 lvl ups) Hope it helps 86.80.183.215 16:06, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

They drop loot?
When I was trying to see if the animals will attack a charmed pet, I killed a Phoenix that I had, and it dropped a cupcake. . Titani Ertan 10:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * they probaly don't drop "native" loot, but are still considered regarding the chance to drop special (event) items. Alexanderpas Talk|Contrib|Guild 14:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This has been corrected in an update yesterday. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  16:54, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Using anomaly tags for things that work like everywhere else in the game
Not a good idea. Backsword 20:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Does not work everywhere else. Read carefully. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  20:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can point to a single instance where the game mechanics differ, I'd be surprised. But even so, it would be that spot that gets the tag, not the standard case. Backsword 22:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * * See, if I go somewhere where there are let's say four moas. I attack one of those and only THAT one turns to a foe. If I attack a moa (not spawned by Wynn) on the grounds all of the moas turn to foes although I only attacked ONE. Got it? Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  22:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Go into presearing, find the Beautiful Feather, poke a strider, ???, profit!!! --23:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes I see. It also not true, as anons example shows. Or as anyone who has played the game can attest. Removing again. Backsword 03:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * They are not all turned hostile in Churrhir fields, so either Churrhis fields is unique or this is an anomaly. I've never seen this behaviour anywhere else, but there aren't usually big concentrations of animals in the same area. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 16:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, everyone who's played the game has seen a group aggroing from one member aggroing. Backsword 21:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A pity they aren't all commenting and confirming it then? - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 21:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh so we can be sarcastic, n? I presume you realise you're wrong and are just trolling then. Backsword 21:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as you are hostile and demeaning in your comments, I won't take you seriously Backsword. It's that simple. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 22:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never seen groups of animals turn hostile if you aggro one of them. And I just went out not too long ago and charmed a crocodile with other crocs in the area. Only the one I charmed turned hostile. I charmed a white moa, in the middle of a flock. Only one turned hostile. I'd call the menagerie all-turn-hostile-behavior as an anomaly, then. --Nkuvu [[Image:User_Nkuvu_sig_button.jpg]] 21:53, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Added: Also, think about the first place a Prophecies character typically uses Charm Animal. There are two Melandru's Stalkers near the shrine, and only one of those turns hostile. I haven't checked outside of Ashford with the striders near the beautiful feather, but if they all aggro at once, I'd call that an anomaly as well. --Nkuvu [[Image:User_Nkuvu_sig_button.jpg]] 21:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

As there have been examples given of both cases, perhaps neither case is anomalous, but rather the pets of the same type in the menagerie are all considered as one "group" in exactly the same manner as mobs. It appears this happens in other places as well, such as the striders in Pre-Searing. In this case, shouldn't it be a note that animals of the same type belong to the same group and if one is attacked all will become aggressive? Misery  22:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * If the vast majority of the animals in game do not turn hostile when another of its type is aggroed, I'd call the all-aggro behavior as anomalous. So far we have the menagerie, and the striders near the Beautiful Feather (which is certainly not all striders in Ashford, or all striders in pre-searing). Those are the only two examples of animals turning hostile when another is aggroed, as far as I know. So it seems that the typical behavior is for the animals to not be linked as a group. --Nkuvu [[Image:User_Nkuvu_sig_button.jpg]] 22:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is this nonesnse still here? It appears to be just peopåle playing around. The wiki is not your toy. Backsword 18:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Magic themed animals
"Magic themed animals have no offspring" What constitutes as a magic themed animal? I'm assuming the Rainbow Phoenix, is one, but are there any others? Silavor 21:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The phoenix, rainbow phoenix, and jingle bear have no offspring that I've seen.--Pyron Sy 22:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is the Jingle Bear "magic themed"? 58.110.94.136 13:58, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because some idiot put a jingly collar on it and stuck it into a garden? *looks around for crazy people with unstable psychology and predisposition to animal abuse*  It's more magical than the Polar Bear that way.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  18:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning the page
Won't it be wiser to instead of listing all the animal companions, to link to the Animal Companion page? Of course you get the roaming version of your freed animal, thats whats the Menagerie is for. Maybe say something like: Once you add an Animal Companion to the Menagerie via Emryd the Tamer, a level 5 version of that animal appears in the Menagerie, and can be tamed normally. Titani Ertan 04:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * According to the location formatting guidelines, all non-quest NPC spawns should be listed. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:27, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * sadly gordon though were not mindless.... and if we have to have all them listed it should be in a table format instead of this huage list.76.121.95.90 19:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I do not advocate mindless adherence to the formatting guidelines, however I don't believe they should be contravened without a good reason. I believe that listing the animals by location is an appropriate deviation from the formatting guidelines, and feel that a table may also be appropriate. I have not seen any persuasive arguement for the complete omission of an animal list from this article. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I want my cookie. Titani Ertan 20:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Pumpkin Cookie.png]] Me likey this. Except crocodiles are in the river for me near the flamingoes, nowhere near any beaches...  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  20:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. So many blank spots after a while. *crunch crunch* Special cookie? Titani Ertan 06:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer a long table orientation over a wide one for ease of viewing in smaller browser windows. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Emmm... how do you make the table go long instead of wide? Titani Ertan 08:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Like this:
 * {| style="margin:0.5em; border:1px solid ; border-collapse:collapse;" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" rules="all"

!style="background:"| Central Hills !style="background:"| Farm
 * Melandru's Stalker
 * Black Bear
 * Mountain Eagle
 * Moa Bird
 * Warthog
 * }
 * - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 09:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Insert Generic Request for a mapped location of all creatures* I'd prefer it over a simple list. And yes - it would be best to break the table on two lines vertically or horizontally. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 09:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Another cookie pl0x Titani Ertan 13:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Pumpkin Cookie.png]] Animal instead of Animal Companion, maybe? They're not charmed yet, anyway, and it's much shorter, helps the formatting.  Also, some & nbsp; without the space after & cells would help with the giant whitespace.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  06:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * i dont know how to fix the table above but if someone could and then post it on the page that would be epic.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 08:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does that qualify as fixed? I did the changes that I proposed above. Not sure what "2 one" you were referring to. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  20:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, you did fix it. [[image:Pumpkin Cookie.png]]. It's a special cookie that I made myself. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 20:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * thats a typeo anyone object to adding that to the page? --[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 21:21, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec)Yum, ty! One question, though, is there a specific order to these areas? Seems kind of random, starting in the middle of the explorable, and going off in random directions.  I'd either go in a geographical progression (pen, farm, beach, cerise, fields, river, dunes...) or alphabetical.  And feel free to move it.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * sure ordering them by geographical progression would be good but were would you start? from here you zone in or from the training area?--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 21:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking at the animals map on the article, matching the order would probably be the most reasonable. It jumps a weee bit, but is for the most part in order.  The beach from the map would get split into Western Beach and Cerise Tree, etc.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  21:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

reorganized

 * how dose that look i renamed some of the areas to match the image and i also reordered some of the pets to match as well. i dont know how to get rid of that extra colum.... --[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 23:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * First row had 6 entries, second had 4, the rest had 5. The &nbsp counts as an "empty" entry, creating an empty cell with borders on it, maintaining a uniform grid instead of merging all the whitespace together.  Now it's all good.  Good job.  I also added a sub-header, as this topic is getting pretty long.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali  04:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * aw ok thanks i didnt get that but it makes a lot of seance. im going to swap the page now to add this table. [[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 06:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Unlock info
Unlock tiers and costs, and pet unlock costs should be in this article, not the outpost article, you don't unlock anything in the outpost... A lot of the notes from there also belong here. Permission to move? <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 07:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

phoenix and HoM
Phoenixes tamed on the Zaishen Menagerie Grounds cannot be displayed on the "Fellowship" monument in the Hall of Monuments unless created by Wynn. You mean that if I tame a level 5 imperial phoenix, level it to 20, and go to the HoM, it won't display? I have a hard time believing this, but if this is the case, it should be reported to Linsey. I assume we all know that rainbow phoenixes can't be added for a unique statue (only generic one if you don't already have it), and that all pets must be level 20 to add to HoM. <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali

Need some Info
So nowhere have I seen a clear explanation of what happens to a pet once you board it in the menagerie. Can you come back and reclaim it without having to pay? Or is it gone forever like with normal tamer releases? I am asking because I spent nearly a month dire leveling my raven so I'm not about to throw it away if they won't give it back. I know that once I showed him to the tamer person it unlocked that species and all its evolutions for my account, but I am not going to pay to reclaim a pet I already owned. Just need some clarification on this plz Nay of the Ether 20:48, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As you say, once you have showed it the tiers are unlocked and you can choose whether you want to keep your pet or not. Also, you can always tame any tier unlocked, for free, by talking to Wynn in the pen. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 20:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to know and I couldn't glean it from the info given: I have a level 20 Dire Black Wolf and I don't want to give it away to fill the menagerie, unless I can get a level 20 Dire Black Wolf back for free later. Thanks.--84.92.169.252 20:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, and you don't need to lose a pet to unlock it. When you talk to Emryd the Tamer, she gives you an option to show her your pet. Once you have shown her your pet, its' tier will be unlocked and she will give you an option to release your pet like a regular tamer. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

White Moa
Isnt It 10,000 Balthazar Faction, Not 20,000? --Adi Waco

Charmable Animal Header
The Lvl 5's are Charmable, why would'nt we want the header to reflect it? -- Arduinna  09:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Even the formatting guide lists charmable animals as just that, and not as foes. I don't know why we should make it differently now. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 09:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I changed it from foes to animals, just because I really didn't think they were foes, but the charmable part can be there, too, as they are all charmable, whether "wild" or summoned by Wynn (except for the ambient babies).  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  17:31, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, don't link the header, got it. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 20:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

similar info on multiple pages
Like Helena and Zaishen Menagerie pages both having the same info (unlock prices), but with different tables (Animal companion also has duplicated info).<BR> I know we want players to find stuff easier (so placing it into several pages should not be a problem), but shouldn't we make just one table and include it every time it is required (so, we just need to update it one single time). --NIN37 12:10, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Great idea. Make a subpage and use it as a transclusion, so that in the case that there ever are edits, there is only one article to edit, and it is always the same table in each transclusion.  (sorry, I come from the old wiki, but I think transclusion is also possible here, right?)  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  17:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * i already went ahead and made the tables on helena and this page the same. as for the table on the animal companion page that page needs some major clean up and ill will be attempting to do that, next week and such. (personaly i think the table should be removed...--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 08:52, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How does Zaishen_Menagerie_Grounds/Pet_tiers look like? :P
 * Might as well create a sub page for species/tier unlocks. ;) --NIN37 12:25, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Bug?
For some reason, i'm not being allowed to place my lvl 6 pet wolf into the menagerie. Does anyone know why? its frustrating me A Flaming Heart 13:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * At Level 6, the Wolf hasn't yet evolved. So you don't get any unlocked higher evolved versions (the lowest being level 12 I think) from Wynn until you show Emryd a Wolf level 12 or higher.  I can think of two possibilities here.  Emryd has looked at your wolf and there are now Level 5 Wolves roaming in the Northeast Caves of your account's menagerie, or since PvP players automatically have Level 20 Elder Wolves, all accounts automatically have everything earlier unlocked for Wolves.  Are there level 5 Wolves in the cave?  Will Wynn show you Wolves higher than your level 6 already?  Does Helena still list wolf as missing from your collection after you talk to Emryd?  And lastly, not to be patronizing, simply to be sure, you do have Charm Animal equipped and your level 6 pet with you when you enter the grounds, right?  LicensedLuny 02:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

no there are no wolves running around anywhere and Helena still lists the wolf as missing. I also cannot be shown any wolves. Yes i do have charmed animal equipped.
 * Hmm, then I'm rather stumped unless it's just confusion between the several different kinds of wolf available as a pet. I can think of three: normal wolf, white wolf, and black wolf.  If you have a free character slot or an existing PvP character, put Charm Animal on a PvP character and go to the menagerie.  You'll enter with a level 20 Elder Wolf.  I showed that to Emryd, and it unlocked all but the highest evolution of wolves on my account.  This doesn't explain why you can't add your level 6 wolf, but at least it should get wolves unlocked for you.  LicensedLuny 17:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

thank you. i'll try that and see if it works for me
 * The normal wolf appears in the back of the forest area, next to the black wolves. Have you looked there?  It's rather tucked away out of sight and you have to get up on the rocks to be able to see them.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

i couldnt find AND it didnt mention that i unlocked it. after i did what licensed suggested with my pvp car it worked
 * If it didn't add your level 6 after talking to Emryd the Tamer, you might want to mention this to Linsey Murdock as a possible bug. However, I tamed a level 5 wolf outside of Yak's just a few days ago, and it got added just fine.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Only one Level 5 Crane?
Most animals show up in groups of two or more with tiny untargetable "young" versions around the grounds. I understand why there is only one copy of the "magical" animals and no tiny versions. But I think there's a bug with the Crane. In my menagerie, there is only one Level 5 Crane wandering around the Central River (with the Flamingos and Lurkers.) However, there are little "young" Cranes wandering there, too. Are Cranes hermaphroditic, or should there be at least one more Crane in the area? ''I'm fairly sure I didn't simply miss the other Crane. I was death leveling there, and only one Crane went hostile/red. Upon returning to the area before trying to level any other species, there was no remaining hostile Crane after I turned in the one I charmed.'' LicensedLuny 02:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed this too, only one crane. There's also only one lion, but that's understandable.  This is strange.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  07:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably not a bug. One Crane, One Phoenix, One Lion .. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 16:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, one Phoenix because it's a magical creature. One Lion with three Lioness in the same area and mini-Lions makes it like a pride of Lions.  But one Crane with little mini-Cranes?  How does that happen?  The single Crane doesn't break anything, so it's not really a bug - more like an oversight unless there's some logical explanation.  LicensedLuny 17:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Daddy-crane went away looking for greener pastures, leaving Mommy-crane to care for the kids. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 17:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Mommy-crane was left alone, because Emryd thought it will be funny to practice RPG targeting on Daddy-crane. Thats what happens when you introduce advanced-warfare machinery into a Middle Ages schene. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 04:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Beautiful
This is a beautiful collection of different environments. I love the lava-filled cave that the Black Moas are in. ^^-- 199.88.16.253 18:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Strider
If I place my strider into the menagerie will it be seen as a moa bird and never a strider again? -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 23:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. That's what happened to my birdy.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  23:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Death Level II - unlocking tiers
Hm... not going to start a revert war (mainly because it might not even be worth explaining Death Leveling in details in this page), but it is possible to unlock tier 7 (death leveling pets in the Menagerie) by either: Again, IMO it's not worth putting that many details here (and definitely not worth doing it for every single available pet), but that's probably what people meant when they said pets can be death leveled here to unlock all 7 tiers...<BR> And, for unlocking matters, there's no such "semi-evolved" (aggressive/playful) rank; either pet is unevolved (elder/no name change) or evolved (hearty/playful/aggressive/dire). --NIN37 01:50, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * killing yourself so wild animal will gain XP and level up (and probably become elder), capturing and showing this pet to the tamer to unlock tier 6; get an evolved level 15 pet and death level it (through the trainer) until it's level 20.
 * killing yourself while doing minimal damage to the target pet (so it might become playful/hearty) and death level it to get a tier 7 unlock in a single run.
 * I find it easier to just spend 3k faction (1k for unlock, 1k for lvl 12 and 1k for evolutions) and get a lvl 12 aggressive. have wynn spawn one, attack it once and let it kill you over and over while having a hero outside the gate with a hard rez. it'll unlock dire in one shot if you dont mind spending a little bit of faction. Saraphim Angel 19:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

it has been proven how to death level in there and intructions are in Ac section so there is no need its done somewere on one of the menagerie pages i put that in explained it and on the Menagerie talk pges i explained it plus the shorter the statment saves page space less cluter so.--Lord randy taylor 22:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Possibility of a title
In my own personal opinion there should be a title for getting all the animals to tier 7, what do you think. SkyMan25 02:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. The pet unlock pack would put you most of the way to the max rank in an instant, letting you buy most of it for real world money: BAAAADDD.  And there are already enough titles for GWAMM, people will get upset if they introduce a new EASY title after they've worked hard on the old ones.
 * HOWEVER, I do think that unlocking all of them at highest tier is worthy of a trophy in the HoM. Melandru fits the bill perfectly next to the other 3 gods.  Now we just need something for Lyssa...  Mesmers get left out, as always.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  03:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, a HoM statue would be a nice little extra. But I don't see any need in getting a reward for filling your menagerie. Though it would be nice if there was any way of showing it to others.--[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 08:06, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Being able to change your pet to any other pet anytime should be its own reward, no? Collecting them is its own reward for me. -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 13:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose that makes sense, I understand. I just thought it would be fun to have something extra to show off, and I was hoping for a title (because I don't have HoM), but HoM sounds just as good too.SkyMan25 13:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Untranslated name
Thoses pets don't grant the hundred gold when given away. It is quite logical because it would be easy to do it over and over. So i assumed they are "copy" (I heard the pjoenix couldn't be displayed in the hall of mounument, that would explain it too if it is the case). And the tamers just have the code line to don't give any coin for a copy. Anksa 08:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just took a hearty phoenix from Wynn and displayed it in my HoM just fine, so that's a myth. And Emryd pays only for personally trained level 20 animals, and not the ones from Wynn.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * .. Nor the ones found roaming in the grounds for that matter. Also, ANY first level 20 pet you put in the HoM will be displayed with the common animal companion statue. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 21:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It got the phoenix statue, I already had a black moa and the companion on that character. The ones roaming in the grounds, for that matter, are level 5, and no tamer has ever paid for a level 5 animal.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  22:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Even when you level it up yourself, you won't get the gold for any pet charmed in the menagerie. 66.190.15.232 07:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed. Titani  Ertan   08:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Phoenix link
When you click on the entry in the table for the Phoenix, it takes you to the skill page. I experimented a bit with changing it to Phoenix (pet) but wanted to maintain the original look...unfortunately the only way I could think of to do that was to make an external link to the wiki...that solution seems too clunky. Any ideas?--70.190.221.30 03:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ill fix it all it needs is a redirect.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 03:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Player Level vs Pet Level
Just wondering, does it forbid you from charming a companion with a level greater than your own? Or does it auto-adjust the level after charming? eg, have level 20s unlocked and head to the Menagerie the instant a Ranger hits LA (usually level 10-12).


 * Don't know what adjustments you're talking about. You cannot charm a pet that's more than 4 levels above you, so if you're level 15, you can't charm the level 20 pets spawned by Wynn, and have to choose the level 15's instead.  Once you level up to 16, you can come back and get the level 20 pet.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  04:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

they made that adjustment so someoen doosent charm a high lvl pet and then have the upper hand in some areas also it makes sense cause honestly seing a lvl 2 with a lvl 20 moss spide has got to REALY make ya mad--Lord randy taylor 22:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The only thing I don't like about this is the fact that you can't have a level 20 pet early in Pre-Searing anymore. Before, you could have a very nice friend who is level 15+ help you deathlevel a Strider, and let you charm it when you're as low as level 1.  Not anymore...  Oh well, I got my LDoA already, anyway. :) [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  04:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Even if you have a higher pet or hero, they dont gain exp until you get past them


 * Wrong on 2 counts. If you got a level 20 pet, well, they didn't need to get XP anymore.  But that has been made no longer possible with the change to Charm Animal skill.  Also, if you tame the level 5 stalker with a level 2 character, the stalker will still gain XP and will be ahead of you in level, he will hit lvl 6 before you do.  But, if you are killing level 0-1 enemies, then he won't level, as obviously he can't get XP from those enemies, while you still do due to your lower level.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Ive had a thought...
what happens if you death level one of these pets to lvl 20 BEFORE taming the thing and it gains no evolution? for example. i spend 3 hours death leveling a Moa and when it hits level 20 it is still simply a Moa. not an elder or playful or hearty or dire moa. just a moa. what then? am i just screwed?
 * Errr... what? okay first and im bored of saying this today, THIS IS NOT A FORUM! If you have a game question ask it in the proper place, not on article talk pages. As for your answer, you can death level a pet in the menagerie from lvl 5 to lvl 20 hearty in 20 - 30 minutes using a vampiric weapon and a fast cast mesmer res hero using flesh of my flesh. It will ALWAYS be hearty by lvl 20. -- Salome  [[Image:User_salome_sig2.png|19px]] 00:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * yea and the pet dosnt need to be attacking you it just needs show up as a attacker (ie just cancel cast charm animal) its the quickest and fastest way to get all your pets to atleast lvl 20.--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 00:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So, to answer the actual question asked, and not to turn this into a forum of unrelated replies... I death leveled a Strider in Presearing, and it was still a Strider, no evolution.  It unlocked the rank 6 Moa Bird, meaning it was treated just like Elder.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  04:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * After you finish death-leveling a pet, no matter which and where, it doesn't show you their Evolution once they hit 11/15 or any other level above. To see their Evolution, you instead need to attack or charm them. For example, I shrine-death leveled a Lion. Once it turns 20 and I return, it is a Lvl 20 Lion. I think of suing A.Net, but I hit Charm Animal, and I see that it's a Lvl 20 Dire Lion. I'm gonna call him Scaly. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 07:45, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I leveled the strider in PRESEARING. I took him all the way to the Menagerie.  Don't think it's possible without zoning.  Still, no name change, just a plain Strider.  So yes, it IS possible to have an un-evolved pet, and the Menagerie treats it like Elder.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  22:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Then it should be noted a bug, or an anomaly, or a hidden Halloween Egg. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 04:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's NOT a bug, though. Evolved means dire, hearty, playful, or agressive.  Elder is excluded from that list, and thus falls with the unevolved group, which is one tier lower than evolved unlocks.  Elder and Unevolved are practically one and the same.  This is consistent with Animal_companion: the only difference is being called Elder or not, the HP and damage are the same.  It appears that the name difference depends on the method of evolution.  If the pet did not evolve at level 11 and was leveled the same way to 15, it will not get a name, but if it was playful or agressive at 11, and ended up being trained in the reverse direction to 15, it will become Elder instead of unevolved.  The end result is still the same - medium HP, medium damage.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  22:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Possible Bug, or is it just my Moa?
I charmed the black moa during the factions quest, and was happily running around with it. Then they released the menagerie, and I thought "now's my chance to get that iguana I've wanted for ages", so I put it into the menagerie, went and got my iguana, leveled it up and dropped it into the menagerie, got Wynn(?) to summon my black moa for me, charmed it, and now for some reason when I try to do any of the paired skills - comfort animal, rampage as one etc. it claims my pet is not an animal and I can't use it. Has anyone else had this problem? - Windz 20:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoah, never seen one like that. The only errors I ever get is when my pet is dead or not there at all.  Try getting a different pet, see if this still happens, then get the black moa again, and see if the problem is back.  Then, submit a support ticket to Gaile or a bug report to Linsey.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  22:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * linsey isnt the right place for that bug she only wants reports of bugs right after a patch goes life instead post it on the normal suport here--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|Talk Page‎]] Zesbeer 22:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

true or false
i heard some dude in public chat saying there is an honor monument for unlocking all the pets and all their levels. it seems unlikely because theres nothing about it on this page or the "Honor" page but could anyone either confirm or deny it definatly? the master
 * This was a suggestion, nothing more, at least not yet. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  01:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A title that people can pay for with real money + in-game money doesn't sound like a good idea, either. Paddymew 18:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A monument is not a title, far from it. I WOULD like to see a monument for this, though.  Same as buying skill unlock packs and then buying all the tomes for elite skill hunters, just a little cheaper.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  17:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * they could alter the pet statue to be added only if you have a full menagerie, instead of when you simply have a pet. 145.94.74.23 08:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The menagerie is a great concept, just implemented badly due to the 'pet unlock pack' idea. The devs should have ignored the heads in marketing who wanted this as another source of revenue. Sorta makes irrelevant the work involved in unlocking pets by capturing and leveling them the traditional way. Any statue gained would be a rather meaningless accomplishment, since you could just buy your way to it via the unlock pack. Flipper 20:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * @145: I disagree, because many people have already obtained the pet statue, and changing it would be unjust.
 * @Flipper: That's not exactly right, because there are still exclusive pets that must be obtained the "hard way." The Moss Spider and Rainbow Phoenix together take longer to get than all the unlock pack pets combined, and you still have to get a "widow run" and a "jingle run," hunt for the white and black moa, and finish Factions for the Phoenix.  That's more than enough work to justify a single trophy on a monument that already has over 50 other possible trophies.  You can deathlevel pets quite easily while afk in the menagerie, so that's not an issue.  Plus, you get a trophy for just beating each campaign without any other special requirements, so you can buy a run all the way to Thunderhead Keep, and then all you need is to complete 4 missions to get the awesomely gigantic Lich trophy.  I just want Melandru to be in Honor alongside the other 3 gods, and hopefully come up with something for Lyssa as well, so that there can be a "5 gods of Tyria" display if you get all of them.  Heck, even Abaddon has his own trophy, and he's not a god anymore.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:12, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Allies
Is it worth noting that the little baby animals count as allies? I tested this death-leveling with renew life and noticed the animation similar to what has been observed with weapons in the Hall of Monuments. 71.12.101.228 05:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I will try it out with a Paragon. Will update soon. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 09:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT:Confirmed. At 0 Leadership, I used Leader's Comfort whole all the charmable pets in earshot were foes, and there were no green dots in earshot except mine. 30 base+6 baby White Crabs=90 Healing. I got 90. Used again, 100, when the Zaishen Handler got in range. Iil provide screenshot if nececery. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 10:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the minipets to me. Omg... Now I want the baby animal minipets!!!!!  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  17:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Service cost
Shouldn't we keep including this: Zaishen Menagerie Grounds/Service costs? -- <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 23:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * yes i dont know why that was removed. also why was exits removed? that's in the formatting guidelines for a explorable area--[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 00:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agre, both should be there. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 08:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't know "exits" also had to be included in the page. It's already in the infobox, that's why I removed the section. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 09:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

pet size
i tamed a black moa Elder in the traing yards, and compared ti to a lvl 20 elder tamed in the wild, i did thisalso with a raven lvled to elder and one tamed in menagerie, i oncluded tht pets tame in the Menagerie will be slightly taller then there wild counterparts--Lord randy taylor 15:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sreenie? I find it a bit hard to believe. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 16:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My pre-update Black moa (tamed wild) was always a bit smaller that other level 20 moas. The May 14 update was supposed to modify (fix) the growth of Black Moas. When was your wild Black Moa tamed? --Ralmon the Gen-- 17:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

bout 2 days ago--Lord randy taylor 02:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Re-Charming
I'm new to the menagerie, but if I release my warthog into the grounds or give it to a tamer, will i be able to re-charm the exact same one? I want to make sure of this so i dont have to re-evolve my pet again. This is probably some blatantly obvious answer I'm not seeing, but any non-flaming responses would be appreciated.--Zidijan June 11, 2009 16:36 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by the exact same one? If you mean with the same type (dire/hearty), then, yes. In fact, if you bring in a lvl 20 hearty, you then "unlock" lvl 20 dire, as well, just in case you wanted to switch or accidentally evolved your pet the wrong way. Freedom Bound 16:45, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what I meant. Ok, thanks. That helped a lot. Zidijan 16:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Master of Winds
Does anyone else find them annoying? They really break up the atmosphere, ruïn most screenshots with their enchantments, cause incredible lag and cause more pathfinding issues than I dare to remember. Couldn't they please be removed? Anyone needing a speed boost there could bring one himself right? 145.94.74.23 14:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * yea its a pain in the neck but they have to be dealt with no one listend when i thoguth hey a command that turns them off (I NEVER SAID REMOVE THEM) just to turn them off for your account so you diditn have that problem--Lord randy taylor 03:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I don't find them annoying. How can they break the atmosphere, when they help you run from place to place? Almost all NPCs ruin screenshot with their AI or presence. Incredible lag? They use a skill on you; if that causes you lag, something is wrong. Just a small reminder to you, they are not placed right near turns,or near gates, so normally you pass next to them, and won't get stuck with auto-walk. No, not anyone who needs a speed boost can bring one themselves; sometimes the build does not permit it, or sometimes they don't have a viable one, or it may "ruin most screenshots". Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 07:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't this conversation make more sense on the Master of Winds Talk page?--Ceru talk contribs 01:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

no bacause its the problem wit hthe ones in this area, although a conversation was brought up by me awhile ago btu all ppl did was babble bout how i wanted them removed instead of a way to get them leave you alone--Lord randy taylor 01:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want them to leave you alone and as said, no bar compression so you can bring speed boosts, why not use a Vow of Silence runner? I mean, the IP and you agreed on those things, so it shouldn't be a problem; right? Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 06:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't work if you want to test a build on Isle of the Nameless (populated by these very same Masters of Wind) and they keep enchanting you, and you can't bring Vow of Silence, plus it only works on primary Dervishes anyway. The enchantment ring is what ruins the screenshots, not the NPCs themselves.  One alternative is to make them into paragons with their shouts and chants or even warriors with "Charge!" for speed buffs, they don't animate around you continuously like an enchantment except maybe the initial cast animation.  Another, much better alternative, is to remove them entirely and create an environmental effect speed boost in the whole area, or in small areas along common paths where you would be running through (similar in function to Stone Spores, same places where the masters are currently located) but not next to combat masters as to not affect your build testing.  Coding a brand spankin' new interface to turn the NPCs on/off like was suggested previously is much more work than is justified for the problem, and is definitely more than Anet would be willing to spend on this, so forget about that one.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  07:09, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We are not talking about Isle of the Nameless. If we were, it would be in the Master of Winds page. Umm, Vow of Silence can work on additional professions (ever heard of Ranger Drok's runner?). If you want the enchantment ring to not ruin screenshots, just wait it off; thats how you get most good screenshots, by waiting. I do agree though about the replacement; perma-Dash for all! Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 07:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We are talking about Master of Winds, which is the exact same in both locations, so one affects the other. And why the f should I be required to bring a specialized running build just to avoid them?  Especially if I want to charm a pet, then I'm limited to one of my professions being Ranger, leaving only R/D or D/R with a clumsy solution.  And if you're standing close to them, you get a very slim window between the enchant expiration and them casting it again, so you are forced to choose a screenshot location away from them.  Plus, their positioning around bridges and fences and other bottlenecks makes them a frequent source of rubberbanding and getting stuck on them when on auto-run.  In the end, all of these are minor annoyances, but if anyone is going to complain about it, at least think through your arguments and proposals first.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  07:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * a)I quote from above: "Wouldn't this conversation make more sense on the Master of Winds Talk page?--Ceru" "no bacause its the problem wit hthe ones in this area, although a conversation was brought up by me awhile ago btu all ppl did was babble bout how i wanted them removed instead of a way to get them leave you alone--Lord randy taylor". Translation:Only here they annoy us. b)You're not required, I said that to make their wrong point clear: "Anyone needing a speed boost there could bring one himself right? 145.94.74.23", so why not to the extreme? Extremes are good examples. c)Agreed, but it goes like this with all other NPCs, as they also interfere in some way or another with your screenshots if you don't stand away. And if you want a kick-ass image of your char, why do it in a place which will ruin it? d)Their positioning screws you? Really? I never had a problem like that, and believe me, I ran back and forth so many times with auto-run in this place.  Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 07:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, let me put in bluntly then: when your menagerie is full of constantly moving NPC's, any NPC's that serve no function (you can bring your own speed boost) that break up the atmosphere (it could be more wild if less people were around, aren't the Zaishen fighters? Then what are so many of them doing nothing but standing around all day? At least the caretakers serve a purpose) and cause additional lag (especially with that many randomly moving NPC's), they could be removed. At the very least, it's annoying to see that many people standing around doing nothing. It's unzaishen, especially in a non-combat non-training area. And some of them DO block paths. Short answer: they add nothing, but may degrade game experience for some players, so let's remove them. 145.94.74.23 08:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * a)The Zaishen Handlers show you where every pet is located (the overall area); you may be surprised, but some people don't check the wiki or roam around tagging their mini-map. Those are the only moving NPCs I can think of. And the atmosphere is of a zoo; the Zaishen handlers are zoo employees. b)if you can bring your own speed boost, why not also bring Vow of Silence, to counter those annoying NPCs? Treat them as non-dying foes if you wish. Again, I am putting it to the extreme, because if you want to avoid the Master of Winds, you can bring counters. But you will? c)All NPCs in the Zaishen Menagerie are there for a purpose. Some of them are just for fun information on the background, some of them are service and etc. Most non-service NPCs are purely for trivial information, and you won't remove all of them. d)What caretakers? There are caretakers? e)The only moving NPCs there are in here are the Zaishen Handlers and the pets in the wild. If you want to remove the ones "doing nothing", you are removing all the Menagerie NPCs, including the service ones. f)Again, I have never been body-blocked by an NPC in the Menagerie. g)short sum: if it was your way, all NPCs were quest givers and merchants, and most explorable areas were barren lands, as they "sit around and do nothing". Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 08:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Extremes are never good examples of anything, as all good things are only good in moderation. I have personally gotten stuck on Master of Winds in both IotN and the ZMG, and more often than not it didn't register right away, but caused rubberbanding instead, and I would think I'm running when really I'm standing around.  The only way to tell then is if you have heroes or pets and they aren't following you all of a sudden.  Their placement is also far from optimal, as there are clusters of them in some places, but none in others where I need a speed boost, like near the spider cave.  Overall, this "feature" is clumsy and can use some improvement, but not important enough to cry in your pillow at night about it.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  16:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

WTH
i noticed it ages ago but i just now got around to posting, Why are the Zaishen Handlers monks( it says there not but look at them there monks) you would htink the handler would be a ranger wouldent you?--Lord randy taylor 20:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Emmm... no? Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 21:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Rangers would be training them to evolve and fight. Handling is a different story.  What's weird is Helena, she's a copy of Kisai.  Now why is an Ele unlocking pets from around the world and tending the training payments?  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  14:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because everyone knows you need a hot secretary to handle all of the customers, duh. It's just good business! Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 14:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL Omg.MystiLefemEle 07:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Shark, or fish?
Rose Of Kali claims that the large swimming creature just off the beach where the phoenix and crabs are is 'not even close to a shark, it's a fish'. But since sharks are fish, saying that 'it's not even close to a shark, it's a fish' is like saying a scorpion's not even close to a spider, it's an arachnid. However, biology lesson aside, what has this wiki generally been calling these giant fish? They're found in just about every coastal city in Kryta, including Lion's Arch (even during halloween), Fisherman's Haven, and Sanctum Cay. Silavor 14:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * the ambient creacture is indeed a shark--Lord randy taylor 16:14, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You really can't prove that they are sharks or not, so just calling it a fish covers it.--67.240.83.137 17:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's throw someone smeared with steak sauce and covered with salmon into the lake, and see if it eats him. Take some photos, examine, and determine if it is indeed a Shark, or just Willi. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 20:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

dotn remember where but i belive Gaile said it was a shark--Lord randy taylor 22:54, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WTB spell check... Does it really matter if it's a fish or a shark?  Call it the "Really big fucking thing that swims around underwater".  A fish is not necessarily a shark, however a shark is still a fish.  I'd have to agree with 67.240.whatever calling it a fish covers the issue.  -Drakora 00:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Shark fins are solid and do not have the "rays" like this fish does, therefore it's clearly not a shark, it is merely a large fish. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  22:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a really damn big fish .... -.- mutant-fish, ... i wonder how it tastes *goes look for some fishing equiptment* Sneaker 16:32 27 July 2009 (UTC)

disambig
Why was the disambig message removed? <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 01:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because Backsword created a proper disambig page for menagerie, the message was redundant. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 01:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But it's still on the Outpost article, and I would have never thought to type "menagerie" into the search box... Also, "menagerie" is not the same as "zaishen menagerie" as far as search results, the disambig referred to the latter. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 06:39, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I redirected Zaishen Menagerie to the outpost article, that makes a little more sense now. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  06:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Wynn
I am removing the note about Wynn and animals teleporting back to her, this was plainly implemented so they wouldent wander off into the menagerie i dont think its an anamoly--Lord randy taylor 00:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not an anomaly. This is supposed to happen.[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 01:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

thoguht so(knew so) so its here to stay--Lord randy taylor 03:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Should have changed from anomaly to note, instead of removing completely. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  17:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Phoenix
unless there is proof this is a bug and not somthing to prevent someone form gettign oen, placing it in menagerie, and then there lvl 2 coming in and getting it lvling it up outside Boreal and then having one in the HoM at a low lvl--Lord randy taylor 00:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you clear this up so that people who try to read it may understand what your trying to say. I also believe this has already been mentioned above as being false.[[Image:User DrogoBoffin sig icon.png|Talk page]] Drogo Boffin 00:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

that a phoenix form the menagerie grounds(not wynn) is not avalible to HoM, i dont think its a bug so i removed the note, i thinkt its in to prevent ppl form a very low lvl form gettign one and puttign it in HoM before 20--Lord randy taylor 03:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You can't put any pets under 20 in the HoM, not even for the generic statue. A "natural" Phoenix is level 5.  And Wynn can still create pets under 20 (12 and 15).  Your reasoning makes no sense.  And where's your sense of AGF for whom ever posted that in the first place?  Phoenixes were bugged for the HoM before.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  17:24, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

i dont think that the lvl 5 phoenix in the gorunds is not able to be put in HoM, since its lvl 5 was nto what was meant EVERYONE knows that, but the one in the grounds(NOT FORM WYNN) but the oen in the Menagerie grounds it is not a bug that when it reaches lvl 20 it cant be put in HoM, AGF dosetn work when there note made no sense in the first place and seriously quit pming me in game its un called for--Lord randy taylor 19:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)\

and Rose THIS is whats in question --Lord randy taylor 19:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * now say what you said 2 comments above in English please. some of us dont speak taylorian. 79.182.40.43 22:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Just a quick question, Lord... Did you level that lvl 5 phoenix up to 20 before trying to add it to the HoM? If you did, and still couldn't add it, then yeah, it's a bug (also known as "feature" XD). If you didn't, well, that's the reason why it didn't work.--Fighterdoken 22:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

i give up end il undo the edit it wil shut up all the Sobs that pm em in game form different accoutns ALL DAY and it will be the last time i have to deal with all of you, so its over call off you friends and LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE!--Lord randy taylor 00:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All LRT is trying to say is that it's not a bug, but an intended feature, one that is meant to prevent low level characters from snagging a level 5 phoenix from the menagerie and leveling it up and placing it in the hall when they're still lvl 10 (lowest level to get to EotN, right?). Since you can't tame an animal more than 4 levels higher, you're already prevented from having Wynn spawn a level 20, capping it, and bringing it to EotN. Whether or not any of this is true, I have no idea, by the way. LRT, correct me if I'm misstating your position on this. Freedom Bound 00:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

EXACTLY what i was tryign to explain--Lord randy taylor 01:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But... what if you spawn a lvl 12 phoenix from Wynn, level it up, then add it to the HoM? Is this a "level 5 only" feature, or is related to all the low-level versions?--Fighterdoken 03:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Um, exactly what is wrong with taming a Phoenix, wherever the f* it bloody came from, and leveling it all the way to 20, no matter what character it's on? Especially now with the account HoM?  Even if you're level 10 or whatever, you will end up leveling yourself along with the phoenix and hit 20 before the pet does.  You had to get it somehow to put it in the menagerie in the first place, be it on a different char.  And what's to keep you from giving it back to Emryd once it's at level 20 and just spawning an "addable" copy from Wynn?  My point is that Randy's "logic" makes no sense to justify the removal of that comment from the article, plus he had no proof other than his (quote) "assumption" that this is not a bug.  Even if it's not a bug as he claims, but a "feature" or whatever you want to call it, the note should still be in the article to let people know that in fact this is what happens before they run into the problem and come yelling at Gaile or Linsey that they found a bug, not knowing that it's actually known already.  You can call it whatever you want, but don't remove it entirely if that's what happens, or provide proof otherwise.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  15:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we call it an anomaly and move on? -- [[Image:User_Alaris_sig.JPG|Alaris_sig]] Alaris 15:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Death Leveling
In "The Animals" it says that the pets can be death levelled and will usually give you a hearty pet. If I remember right isn't there no resurrection shrine in the area? Canineteeth 02:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

You need to brign a hero or two with a res skill--Lord randy taylor 03:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * here is a build --85.64.128.31 08:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Omigod I'm famous Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 20:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Total number of animals?
I recently completed my menagerie. When I talk to Helena she says I have 18 Tyrian, 7 Canthan, 6 Elonian and 2 exotic animals. This sums up to 34. However, when I count all the animals she sums up underneath that, I count 33. But, when I check the lists she gives me when I ask to acquire a specific animal, it lists 7 Elonian animals (I haven't fully evolved any of them). Something is wrong here.--Fogeltje 13:58, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't delete from a talkpage, just strike it out if it's no longer needed. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 02:55, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

A little help....
I've been trying to death level the lvl 5 crocodiles for 40 minutes and they haven't even gained 1 level. I'm using a hero BiP saccer (with 1hp and a vamp weapon), a Well of Power hero, and a FC rezzer. Can someone help me out? What am I doing wrong? 24.26.253.105 15:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you kill all but one crocodile?-- Shew 15:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but I thought that doesn't matter. Don't they all gain an equal amount of exp? 24.26.253.105
 * Killed all the others, but the lvl 5 still isn't gaining exp (and yes, I already attacked it so it's an enemy). Hasn't gained 1 level......this is weird. I even zoned earlier and came back. Still not gaining exp. 24.26.253.105 15:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * They share the amount of exp, like you do in a party. Make sure the animal is also in your radar, otherwise it won't get any exp. Titani   Ertan  User Titani Ertan Signature.JPG 15:14, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It was in radar (in our aggro even), I killed all the other crocos, and I'm at 65 minutes.......it's still lvl 5. I'll try rezoning for the third time. 24.26.253.105 16:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Trying a different pet.....5 minutes in and it still hasn't lvl'd. Something's wrong. 24.26.253.105 16:13, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you the one dying, or a hero? I don't know if heroes "give" XP when they are killed...  I know for sure that pets don't.  Try dying yourself, you should see a level up very soon if that fixes the problem.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  19:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Having this same issue trying to level a pheonix. I sacced to 1 hp, and the hero is resing me with signet of return, but the pet isn't gaining xp. 134.71.135.35 18:18, 18 October 2010 (UTC)


 * You have to make the target pet hostile; the green dots won't gain experience. Bring more than 1 hero to rez (to eliminate any delays; you have things setup for 1 rez/10s) (I prefer MeMo using Fast Casting + a BiP hero to maintain high energy; virtually no wait time). Naturally, make sure heroes are set to defend, otherwise, they will kill the pet. Incidentally, I didn't spend any time pulling the pets apart or worrying about whether they are in radar range. With the ideal setup (2 rezzers, 1 Bipper, 55 armor, quick sac skill to start things off), it takes mebbe 10 minutes tops to take the pet to L20, charm, drop off with Emryd, and repeat with another. (Longer, if you want to use the opportunity to spam some DP-removing sweets.) &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:53, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Jahai Rat location
Though Wynn claims that the Jahai Rat is roaming around on the farm, it's actually located way more north (at the same spot as the Ravens and Lynxes) ~ Sanna  15:08, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This should be a bug note on Wynn's page. I guess they intended to put rats on the farm (makes sense), but then changed their mind due to overcrowding and forgot about Wynn's text.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  16:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I just noticed this myself, and put a footnote on the chart here. -- Tekn0mancer [[File:User_Tekn0mancer-Awaken_the_Blood_19px_sig.jpg]] talk 20:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

A question....
So, lets say I only have factions and nightfall, can i unlock a pet from proph or eotn to use with balthazar faction? I personally have all games, but one of my friends only has factions and nightfall, and wants a black wolf or raven. personn5 20:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My instinct tells me that no, like skills you can only unlock pets from campaigns you own. But you should get your friend to try it anyway, and tell us the result. At worst, it's 1000 balthazar faction "wasted" in the pursuit of knowledge. At best, your friend gets a new furry buddy. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 22:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My Prophecies-only mule account gets an error message when trying to view a pet from another campaign in the unlock list. Don't remember the wording of the message, something about not having traveled there.  Anyway, no, you can't unlock a pet from somewhere you don't own, just like skills.  [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali  02:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Alrighty then, was just making sure on that. personn5[[Image:User_Personn5_sig.jpg|19px]] 02:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

video
My apologies for removing the video, but I feel like it wasn't as good as it should be for this page. First of all, it made me sick watching it in the narrow, first person, quick turning back and forth style. I couldn't watch it for more than a few seconds without actually feeling nauseous and having to turn away (like looking at the ground out the side car window while driving 75mph for those who get car-sick)... Also, the note said that one pet was missing, but didn't say which one. None of the pets had notes or labels of any kind, so focusing on the yaks at the start (which is actually the BACK of the menagerie) made it seem like they're actually pets. I didn't watch the rest, as I just started getting a headache from the filming style as described above. Here is the link to the removed video: zaishen menagerie, missing one pet. <font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 04:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also note that the video has the guild wars graphics quality at low. The blurry details and distinct lack of proper shadows doesn't do the menagerie the justice it deserves. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 08:54, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Nobody ...
Seems to notice the smaller feachers of this place,aside from the animals... Look at the trees near the black bears and melendrus stalkers,how real do u think they look? i think they look amazing,the bark on the trees is astonishing and the leaves(while still un-real looking) are amazing too, i just find the place...awesom...We all have a part of the menagiere we love the most,Mine is the forest by the bears and stalkers,its just..beutiful -- Nei l2250   15:56, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think we all notice. (I love the swamp. ^_^) It's just not something we "document," I guess. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 23:05, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Getting to the Zaishen Menagerie
I was helping a guildie get to the Zaishen Menagerie and discovered that because he did not have the Great Temple of Balthazar unlocked he could not go to the Zaishen Menagerie. If it does not show up go to LA, KC or Kamadan go to the Great Temple of Balthazar then you will be able to go to the Zaishen Menagerie. This is not on the page, why do we have two pages for this area?KJZ 05:01, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The Zaishen Menagerie Grounds is the explorable area. The Zaishen Menagerie is the outpost. As for not being able to get to the menagerie until you've been to the GToB, I always thought that was common amongst all the Zaishen outposts, not just the menagerie. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 05:33, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Zaishen Challenge/Elite are account-wide (my not-so-new character was able to travel there before getting to the Great Temple of Balthazar; GToB remained locked until port outpost was reached). Zaishen Menagerie should be account-wide as well (can't check this since I don't have any free slot to create a new character, so every one already got full Battle Islands access). Most probably, the reason OP's friend could not locate it was because it's located in Battle Islands (so it's not reachable through Lion's/Kaineng/Kamadan). Or were they trying to get there through the Guild Hall? --NIN37 14:50, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * We were trying to get to the Menagerie from the Guild Hall. I just think a note needs to be on this page that you need to unlock the Great Temple of Balthazar before you can travel to the Menagerie, common knowledge or not.  I had the temple unlocked years ago so it never occured to me that it needed to be unlocked, as my guildie did not have the temple unlocked.  KJZ 04:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * How, NIN37? I have all of Battle Isles "unlocked" on my acct, but going to the GH with a new Prophecies characer showed a completely empty map with only the GH. So not fair that you can get there 3 minutes after making a NF character, but it takes forever-and-a-half on a Prophecies char if you don't buy a run all the way to LA. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 05:05, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This is how the Battle Isles look like once you reach Lion's/Kaineng/Kamadan (but before visiting the Great Temple of Balthazar itself).
 * User NIN37 Battle Isles.jpg
 * Both Zaishen Challenge and Zaishen Elite are available (once account-unlocked), but the Menagerie will only show once GToB is visited.
 * I haven't designed the game mechanisms, but would say Ascalon and Kryta are still "tutorial" areas (limited party size, low level henchmen). Sure, same applies to Kamadan (except you can use an exploit to get a 8-teammates party there). :P --NIN37 12:24, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, well in that case it might be worth mentioning. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 17:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Unlocking pets
When I unlock, say, a Rainbow Phoenix using 15 gold Zaishen Coins, do I unlock all tiers of it? - 77.166.63.187 09:06, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you just unlock the level 5 version that wanders around the menagerie. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 10:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Old bug with Reef Crawlers?
Blue Reef crawlers charmed from Boreas Seabed way back before they made them uncharmable can't get put into the menagerie. It just cancels all dialogue boxes when asked. Mango 22:34, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Anomalies
The last two anomalies clearly contradict each other. Please fix.Crimmastermind 04:56, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * They don't contradict. If you attack one, the others will still turn hostile, but they just won't attack. In layman's terms, attacking one pet will make the others' names turn red. ---  Ness Hrin   [[File:User Ness Hrin SBIcon.png]] | 04:58, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Sweet
There are smaller versions of all creatures in the menagerie :3-- Ickoization 19:50, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I added my lev 12 hyena to the menagerie and tamed my rainbow phoenix. I went back to menagerie, turned in my phoenix,,, when i went and tamed my hyena he is now level 5. What did i do wrong?
 * The animals naturally roaming the menagerie are all level 5. You need to talk to Wynn in the training yard to spawn leveled up pets. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 12:55, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Unlocking like pets
Does anyone know where, or know which ones, on the pets that are unlocked when like pets are brought in to the menagerie? For example, you bring in a regular wolf, but doing so unlocked the black and white wolves as well. Something like that, I think, would be a good thing to have on the wiki page. I would do it, but I have no idea which ones are "related". 69.182.192.223 22:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't think such a system was in place to begin with, to be honest. I've never seen it, despite unlocking basically every pet individually so far, and I've never heard of it happening to anyone else. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 03:07, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Phoenix Anomaly
I just aggroed and death leveled a level 5 Phoenix that was walking on the Menagerie Grounds (NOT spawned from Wynn) up to level 20. After charming it, it became a Hearty evolution (since I had dealt damage to it) and I showed it to Emryd to unlock the evolution and levels. Right after this I took it to my HoM and was able to display it on Fellowship with no problems. Looks like the anomaly is no longer true? Z-95 02:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I've read and re-read the discussion above about the so-called anomaly, and I don't think it makes sense as currently phrased. I did the same thing as above, took an L5 Phoenix, death leveled it, and had no trouble dedicating it at the HoM. I plan to remove the note unless someone can describe the circumstances to replicate the issue &mdash; it's not a question of assuming good faith, it's about being able to clearly explain what people should look out for; we should have no note rather than a misleading one. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 03:04, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Try to get a couple more test reports, and if it's not happening anymore, remove the note. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 15:58, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I want to emphasize that there might still be some sort of bug, but not the one that is currently described; I don't think that it ever mattered whether one picked up the imperial phoenix from Wynn, the grounds, or the end of Factions. (In fact, I suspect someone tried to take a rainbow phoenix to the HoM &mdash; lots of people think that's the one that should be part of the monument.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:21, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I clearly remember numerous reports from people who had trouble adding the imperial phoenix due to some kind of issue with its evolution, even before the Menagerie existed, at which point they had to abandon the pet and start over. My guess is that grabbing a new one from Wynn fixed the evolution problem and took care of that bug for them. But I haven't heard of this happening for a long time now, so I'm tempted to say it's been fixed. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 02:31, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Good to know. I was reading the other posts in the article and couldn't make heads/tails out of the description. I bet you need(ed) one of the unlocks all evolutions and, before the ZMG, it was hard to tell what qualified (and if your pet was included). So, still not sure what the bug might have been, but for now, does anyone have any objection to removing the note? — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 03:16, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with removal. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]<font color="#000099">Rose Of Kali 19:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Map of animal locations and colourblindness
So, looking at the map of animal locations, I notice that the colour choices haven't really been done with colourblindness in mind. Not being colourblind myself, however, I have no idea if I'm right or not. So for those who are: is the map okay? Do the colours make it harder or annoying to find the number you're looking for? Are they fine, but could be better? Also, a more general question: is the order okay? The numbers follow (roughly) the most efficient path through the map to all the animal locations, but there's probably a more efficient way of organising it, especially since the path doesn't look obvious when you're just looking at a map. I'd be happy to make any necessary changes, but I don't know how necessary they are. --Wormwood 17:58, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not like there's a red five and a blue five located somewhere on the same map. Even if someone can't tell the difference between the various colours, the numbers should still be visible within the circles, and each number is unique. The dot colours are a convenience, not a necessity for finding your way around the menagerie. Now obviously if a colourblind person complains something will have to be done, but at the moment I just don't feel it's necessary. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 18:20, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I feel that if we're going to use colour as a convenience, then there's no reason to exclude a group of people from that just because they don't see colour very well. The colours are poorly-chosen: take a look at the grayscale version of the image (use if you don't have appropriate software) and see how the colours turn into "light" and "dark", with precious little difference between each "dark" group and each "light" group. Also, the red "X" marking the location of the training pen is very hard to find if you don't already know where it is.
 * Now, I know that colourblindness doesn't work that way, but it does demonstrate the serious fail in the colour choices. The real problem is that the locations of the numbers are not intuitive: if they were, then the colour wouldn't be a problem, but since they're not, you're relying heavily on the colour to find numbers quickly. So the current system is clumsy and could be improved. Maybe each group gets a unique shape rather than a colour? --Wormwood 18:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Adding a shape would be good. At the moment, we're just speculating on what would be easier for folks who are colorblind. I think (until someone who is offers their views) the best that we can do is to make it easier for those of us who aren't. If you have a specific idea, I would recommend that you create a mockup in your sandbox and post a link to it from here. Folks can comment/improve upon it and so on. IIRC, this particular map was a huge improvement on what we had before, but I don't think it's changed much since it's introduction...so this might be a good time to revisit the execution. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. I'll have a think and see what I can come up with later. I figure it would be worth fixing the terrible numbering, at the very least. --Wormwood 23:41, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

<ri> I looked the map over and saw nothing really wrong with the colors currently used, though the numbering my need tweaked, maybe not. Btw I am red-green color blind.MystiLefemEle 07:33, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Another red-green here, and I didn't have a problem with the colours -- BramStoker (talk, contribs) 13:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool, good to know that some folks with the most common form of colourblindness are fine with the map. I'll look into the numbering once I finally get PS installed on my new computer. (I'm a fool for saying I'd redo the map when I don't currently have the software to do so XP) --Wormwood 00:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC)