Feedback talk:Joe Kimmes/Archive Jan-Mar 2011

Nightfall Treasure
Hi Joe. Is there any information you can share on the mechanics of how the Treasure Chests, Buried Treasure, etc work in Nightfall? It's already obvious that the chests remain empty for a month after you open them and the more often you go back, the lower the quality of the items inside. But, if you do a treasure run and pick up all 12 treasures, does the quality of the items drop each time you open a treasure chest? In otherwords, are treasure hunters/runners penalized? Also, does the quality of drops ever reset to starting quality? --Musha 00:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Treasure quality - gold amount and chance of a rare item, not the actual quality of a dropped item - decreases permanently; on the plus, there's a limit to how much it's ever decreased, so if you've been farming chests for a few months the drops will not get worse. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]]
 * Permanently? So my chests are borked FOREVER after one run?  :C  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  14:28, 28 Jan 2011 (UTC)
 * Your chests are slightly less likely to be awesome after one run, sure. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 21:10, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Does it go down by character or by account? Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 18:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * account sadly enough... --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons 22:27, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not think that is correct. Each time I take a new char through nf, they get good quality drops on the chest runs. I believe it is by character. --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 23:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)


 * It's highly unlikely to be per account (or, if there's a connection, it has only a minor impact). I haven't tracked every run/visit, but my best run to-date was the fourth toon on the account to open any treasure. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:57, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

(reset indent) I'm finding that the quality does not reduce over the course of multiple visits. The Istani treasures give a little over 500 gold each time I open them, across multiple characters (4 Nightfallers and a Factionser) and across multiple (3) months. The exact amount over 500 varies, but on my last run mid-Feb I got 544 gold from one of the characters, and gold items for all the characters from all the boxes. Joe: does it or does it not reduce? Cynique 09:09, 11 March 2011 (UTC) This has already been answered. At this point you sound like an interrogator, and what reason does Joe have to lie to you about this? Furthermore, 3 months on 5 characters is 15 chest visits; not exactly a substantial enough sample to be basing assumptions on without some considerable room for error. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:39, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "Treasure quality - gold amount and chance of a rare item, not the actual quality of a dropped item - decreases permanently; on the plus, there's a limit to how much it's ever decreased"
 * OK, but three is a substantial fraction of "a few" ("if you've been farming chests for a few months" - I'd take that as meaning up to about six months), and I haven't seen any change from when I started. I get a distribution around a number slightly above the figures in the wiki page, and it was the same last time I went around, about three weeks ago, as it was the first time.  If it is twelve visits to go from max (500ish in Istan) to min (claimed as 100ish in Istan), I'd expect the third visit to be 420ish, but I'm still seeing 500ish.  So the alternative version of the question is "Over what time-scale does this reduction take place?" Apologies where appropriate for any implication that Joe was lying (like you, I don't see that he has any reason to lie to us), but his statement seems to be at odds with what I see when playing.  Cynique 17:19, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you've become confused by my use of "a few" - note that this is on a character basis, so your drops are only penalized by 3 chests worth. Scaling of the rewards only gets into gear significantly past this number, so your results are entirely expected. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 18:58, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, there's a ton that we don't know about anti-farming measures (aside from certain mobs, of course) in general; could you shed some light on the subject? &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  22:50, 11 Mar 2011 (UTC)
 * That... is a secret!  Seriously though, I try to be vague about the exact mechanisms behind the game to keep things a little mysterious, and with farming mechanics there's of course incentive to keep them secret.  If you've got a specific question I might be able to give vague answers. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 00:18, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to pry; if it's supposed to be in a black box, it can stay there. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  0:22, 12 Mar 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine, I'll bite. How are the pseudo-random seeds for the drop tables generated? –Jette 00:47, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The game's random number generation was coded long before my time here, so I'm going to go ahead and say that it is magic and a wizard did it. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 01:37, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I see. I was going to post an elaborate metaphor tangled with magic in pop-culture references here, but I got bored halfway through so I'll just ask: a while back, some bozo claimed that two single players in separate parties that enter the same zone at the same time and kill all the monsters will receive the same or approximately the same drops. They provided screenshots that didn't look doctored and appeared to support the hypothesis. Is this true, and if it is, how close would you have to be in order to notice it? A second, or closer to a millisecond? –Jette 01:56, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, Joe, thanks. I had thought that the comment about "a few" meant that it gets worse during the first "few", then stops because it is as worse[sic] as possible, whereas you meant that it doesn't start getting worse until you've done a few.  Sorry, my misunderstanding.  Cynique 05:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries, it's a nonlinear system so it's tricky to explain without giving it all away.
 * Jette - Seems crazy to me; even if the random generation was seeded when you load into the mission (and I'm not sure about that) there's a massive quantity of unknowns like your load time, when monsters die, which order you kill things in and so on. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 17:44, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It wasn't about loading, it was about leaving. They both entered the portal almost in sync, less than a second apart. I won't discount the possibility of a hoax, but if it was a hoax, it was a very well-played one. They had screenshots and everything. Maybe it was just an old bug, though. I think it was posted sometime back in 2007 or something, so it could be long-gone if that was the case.
 * On an unrelated topic: is the gw.dat file checked at runtime for not-brokenness or anything? I started playing the game on-and-off again after the Dervish update, and the texture file for enchantment borders in all my texmods broke since you guys changed it to have blue borders on flash enchantments, or Dervish enchantments, or whatever. I had to re-do them all. If there's nothing that makes sure the dat file is working properly, I might be able to replace textures inside of it instead of having to use TexMod, which basically breaks DirectX in order to make shiny things. –Jette 11:23, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hidden Treasure bugs
Some of the hidden treasures in EotN dungeons, revealed by light of deldrimor, seem to be bugged. I've seen the glowing orbs marking a hidden treasure/ghostly ally actually disappear after being revealed before I can get to them to claim their reward, so nothing can be accessed from them; I've also had them disappear on me where I didn't actually witness the disappearing, where I see the ping on the compass and when I make it to the ping, there is no glowing orb. Even after I wait long enough to have them ping again, I'll cast LoD, and no more ping. I've also had the glowing orbs fail on me, as in, when I cast LoD on the glowing orb, I will get a message saying that hidden treasures have been revealed, but nothing appears while the glowing orb fades away. I have had this happen in the following dungeons: Sepulchre of Dragrimmar, Darkrime Delves, Cathedral of Flames, Shards of Orr, Rragar's Menagerie, Bogroot Growths, and Raven's Point. Because I have experienced it in so many dungeons, I do not believe this bug to be specific to only a few dungeons, but all of them. --Musha 21:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * This bug has been mentioned before but never in a reproduceable fashion - I suspect that the Hidden Treasures are being spawned in a rock or something, such that they can get pinged, but then fail to spawn when you get close enough. Unfortunately, this means it's fixed on a treasure-by-treasure basis, so let QA know if you find a specific treasure that doesn't work. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 01:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * If it helps, I've personally mainly (only?) seen this bug when I use LoD as soon as I zone into an area. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with rocks because I've seen it with the map with an open pool of water (it's used in a couple of dungeons) as well as only a few steps away from the zone-in point. --Falseprophet 17:32, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Interesting. I went to visit Murakai twice yesterday. On L3, there's (supposed to be) an HT a few steps from the portal. The first time, I hit LoD after knocking out the keymaster and friends; got the treasure w/o trouble. The second time, I used the skill just after everyone finished loading...and, even though I had someone standing next to the glowing light (just before it extinguished), no treasure was uncovered. I'll try to avoid using LoD for a couple of minutes to see if the work-around is consistent (or only applies to the treasures/allies near the portal). — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:43, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That is interesting; I wonder if it has to do with using LoD while other players have not yet loaded into the map. Let me know if you uncover anything! - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 17:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, one time test: bloodstone caves. Two players. Both zoned and both grabbed Deldrimor beacon bounty before Player 2 used LoD. Got the Dwarf Ghost at the beacon and clearly saw the light at the first poison pot and saw 2 other pings (total of 3 possibles within compass distance). Took care of Ettins and associated friends. Stepped next to poison pot...and nothing revealed. Subsequent uses of the skill: no more pings. I'll see if I can duplicate that, too. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 04:04, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Confounding creatures and their types/species/w/e
For a long while I've taken many a looks at things like Category:Creature types, Category:Species, Category:NPCs by type and all the individual pages within and have been many a times befuddled by the wiki's system of categorizing and organizing the creature types. Why do I bring up here? Mainly because we wiki'ers have pathetic methods to tell creature types and affiliations of NPCs. The best we got are our good ol' Of slaying mods, and we have on occasion our bounties - don't know of any other methods if there are some. So I was wondering if there any chance you could help out in this, either by presenting a new way to find out the creature type/affiliation, or by explaining some things. A current topic of interest of mine would be the Beast thing, which is mighty confusing especially since we got things like Simian, Cobalt, and other "group articles" which effectively put creatures as both "beast" and something else. And to make that type further confusing would be that the wiki categorizes/d many non-tamable animal npcs (for instance, Lynx (beast)) as them. So on this specifically, which would be a great deal helpful: Are NPCs which share the model/naming of charmable animals but are not charmable actually beasts or are they they same but without some coding extension that makes charmable animals... charmable? -- Konig / talk 02:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I wish there was a 'scan' skill that lets us now basic info of a creature, like race, affiliation, armor ratings, type of damage of their weapon and skillbar. Without that, we can only go around using poor methods like equipment mods, some skills, bothering devs every now and then, and in the worst cases, by process of elimination. For example, we know most 'greenish translucent enemies' are ghosts because a dev said so, so we know smite crawlers and dream riders are ghosts because they look like that, and thanks to that we can check using EoE which other creatures around them are ghosts too. Currently, the only way we have to check if a creature is an animal is with Charm Animal. If charm animal says 'this creature is not an animal' then by definition an animal is a creature that Charm Animal considers an animal. But why using beast or spider when Charm Animal says they are not animals? I don't remember exactly, but I recall that some dev explained that animals that can't be charmed are set simply as beasts like the wolves and crows with skills in Eye of the North, so we went with that as a rule of thumb. But there are cases in which that won't work too. Oink has invulnerability, so we can't activate Charm Animal on him and know if he's actually animal or beast, we can't use EoE with it either, since invulnerability makes him immune to the effects of it too. And so, I go back to wishing for a Scan/Libra/Pokédex/whatchamacallit skill/functionality of some sort. It could even be a Consumable made by the Order of Whispers. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 16:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A thought that came to mind was that if players as a whole cannot be given ways to test this for abc reason(s), then perhaps the TK can be given such (which would also aid in helping us test things ^^). There's at least three wiki'ers in the TK that I know of so that would be more than helpful for fixing our categorization of things. -- Konig / talk 19:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A scan skill would be pretty cool. I can't provide definitive information about species, but it's correct that there's a list of what's charmable independent of the creature's species. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 23:06, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Celestial summon attack damage
The celestial summons have exceptionally low attack damage, usually 11-14. This is lower than any of the other summoning stone summons I've tested, and is roughly the same across all assumed weapon types. Is this intentional? The full numbers I've recorded are here, the celestials are at the bottom. All of the stones I tested with were from 2011. Manifold  00:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like their weapons may not be scaling up with level; have you tried testing these with lower-level characters? - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 23:07, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I hadn't, but I just checked it out. A level 2 and 3 Monkey did 5-14 damage, the same as a level 20. A level 2 Dog did 5-7 damage, less than a level 20's 11-14. A level 12 Dragon did 5-13, compared to 5-14, and a level 12 Ox did 8-11, less than the 11-14 of a level 20. I could have missed a few possible numbers, of course, since some are quite rare, but it's a mixed bag between slightly less and no change for lower levels. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 00:39, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Heroes in Scrimmages
With the 3-hero limit about to be lifted, the idea of heroes in scrimmages is amazing. Would it be possible to allow heroes back into scrimmages? It could be one of those "other changes" that is coming with the Feature Build.Wicca 08:32, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No and No.-- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  09:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * i am assuming with the removal of them from pvp did something to the code that made it so heroes can't be used in scrims because i remember when that patch came out (best day for pvp imho) joe said he would try and work out a fix to make it work again but we never saw said fix. so it would probably be better to move this question to his page.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 09:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * @Briar= You do realize this is scrimmages i.e. not real pvp? There seems to be some support for this on guru. I wasn't exactly sure who this would be best directed to. Maybe someone can move this to the appropriate Live Team member.Wicca 01:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * While it may be possible to add heroes to scrimmages, it would certainly not be worth the live team's time to do so. With the similarity between scrimmages and ranked matched, I'm guessing it would not be a simple task to enable heroes in scrimmages. The live team has better things to do.--TahiriVeila 01:30, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As Tahiri points out, Ranked and Scrimmage use mostly the same restrictions currently so it's not exactly a ten-minute fix. That said, this is still something I'd like to do in the future. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 22:45, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Question about the "By Ural's Hammer!" bug
So it looks like the dervish update made "By Ural's Hammer" resurrect spirits and summons that were already dead, which seems to imply that the server does not delete dead spirits. Isn't that a big load for the server that could be easily freed up by deleting them entirely when they die?--141.70.81.135 01:47, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Spirits are deleted after a brief wait, to let them finish any business they have like playing their death animation, post-death cleanup, etcetera. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 01:55, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * An assumption on my part would be that the "wait" would be the same time as for normal NPC's deaths. And that the same would be said for minions and non-fleshy creatures whose bodies drop into the ground (when said non-fleshies die on bridges you can see their bodies underneath the bridge in mid-air for about the same amount of time; easiest seen in that Djinn city near the gold pit). Am I right in my assumption? ^^ -- Konig / talk 02:30, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, my, those are funny. I always though they should have a 'shrink' animation (like the 'grow' animation Afflicted and Celestials have, just shrinking instead growing) instead 'going down'. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 15:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

'Best. Bug. Ever.'-- Briar    The Spider  15:58, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Fort Aspenwood
Is there any way you could look into some of the main bugs in Fort Aspenwood? Specifically, the bug causing Siege Turtles to stop moving. Turtles stop moving in about one of every three matches, for no known reason. I'm not sure exactly when the bug was introduced, but the turtles worked completely fine for a time after they were fixed to no longer get stuck in gates. It could have something to do with the update that made them no longer target spirits (as a side thing, could turtles be changed to only stop moving if enemy NPCs are in range, but still shoot at anything in range when their attacks are recharged?). According to John, turtles are controlled entirely by code and you know the code better than anyone else. Many others and I would really appreciate if you looked into this for us! :D –~=Ϛρѧякγ  (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 02:27, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * for more info please see Feedback_talk:John_Stumme-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 02:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey John, I was wondering if there was any way to fix the broken Siege Turtles in Fort Aspenwood? 50% of the time they get stuck and refuse to move. Kurzicks will ignore the turtles, disabling them from getting revived near the corresponding commander. PS: Dervish update is looking great. Can't wait for the Embark Beach update <3 (Ugh, it sucks to be unfamiliar with this whole wiki thing =/) Elisa / talk


 * The warriors get borked in a similar manner. -- Armond[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 14:52, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Turtles actually get stuck in around 33% of matches. Warriors get stuck (separate from turtles) far less often, so warrior sticking is less of an issue (but an issue nonetheless). My friend compiled some stats on the mission, if you would like to see the data. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 19:04, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Still, with turtle dead, I wish the new turtle came anyways, and the remaining warriors from the previous one got removed, instead having to wait for the remaining warriors to die for the next turtle. A dialog to force turtle respawn wold be nice, but unfortunately, the Kurzick spies could go to the Luxon side to grief by respawning the turtle when it's doing fine. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 22:27, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As a Kurzick, I recall seeing a siege turtle respawning even though the previous turtle's warriors remained. There were enough warriors to accompany 3 turtles far more than once. -- Konig / talk 22:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I've seen the double warrior spawns before too. They happen only rarely tho'. Contrary to the turtles getting stuck, heh. Then again, I've also noticed the Kurzick gatekeepers walking all the way over to the second purple/orange gates - Way too far away from Gunther, if you ask me. Elisa / talk
 * And Gunther himself, too. FA in general is kinda borked, but as long as the waits don't persist it's still a fun PvP medium. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 23:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Quite fun, but it was more fun before all these glitches were introduced and then ignored. JQ, on the other hand, just needs a total rework so something other than RoJ healers with "Make Haste!" can be effective. –~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 00:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess all of this is true, really. But in JQ people will ultimately cap the shrines back, you just need to push them into it by capping and guarding the other quarries. Whereas in Fort Aspenwood there is no way to force people to target the turtles. Mind you, I love playing FA a whole lot more than I love playing JQ. The latter is simply broken, because it isn't as symmetric as it was supposed to be. Can't fix that, unless you redo the entire map. Whereas in FA people could possibly look into hard coding a way to prevent the turtles from standing still for a random amount of seconds, without them targetting something. Basically just add in a timer and a new condition that will trigger said timer and trigger the next response. (Mind you, I'm fairly new when it comes to game coding, so if I'm off even in the slightest.. Make love, not war. And tell me gently >.>;) Elisa / talk
 * Being a software engineering major, that sounds about right as far as pseudo-code, but we don't really know how the AI is set up. Could be limitations on exactly what you can tell them to do. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 02:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm skeptical... usually when AI stops responding like that, it's because it's not even returning the pointers back to its most basic Timer Status checking routine. The entity technically isn't even idling, it's in some random loop. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 05:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've gotten rank 12 Luxon in FA and I'm on rank 7 Kurzick in FA and I've submitted numerous bug reports over the last 4-5 years about turtle and warrior bugs. I can say I've never seen a turtle respawn while a warrior from it's command post was still alive. It just doesn't happen and whoever said it does is mistaken. Ocasionally I've seen the warriors and turtle die and while the respawn was taking place a Kurzick attacked the command post resulting in 8 warriors spawning, but never have I ever seen a turtle respawn while it's warriors were still alive. I'm certain this is a mistaken observation. Yes the arena is bugged, it's been bugged for years (I've submitted so more detailed support tickets on this arena than anything else in the entire game). Bugs almost always cripple the Luxon side of things usually a turtle getting stuck/dtalled at a gate (for whatever reason, it has changed over the years) or some really weird warrior bugs where they often stand in the middle of nowhere doing nothing, not even trapped on a wall. I think the warrior bug has to do with the green gate and chasing players who run through it but it then closes (similair to how melee AI responds to a player it can't figure out how to reach) and the turtle bug might still have somethign to do with gate repairs while it is in the vicinity of the gate (at the moment it appears to be happening more often at the purple outer gate). Again, I've never once seen a turtle squad respawn while it's warriors were still alive and that is something which would be very obvious to Luxon players if it happened. 58.111.78.122 06:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe the solution could be simpler. You can ride siege devourers. Why not siege turtles? Talk to it, and you Mount the siege turtle, and can unstuck it and even choose targets, in exchange of losing one party member. Dismount, and it resumes its path. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 14:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * And maybe the Kurzicks could play Juggernaut...that would be pretty sweet, actually. --ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 19:39, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering the fact that's not how they're set up, they'd likely have to make brand new NPCs. Playing as a juggernaut makes no sense in lore (no matter how cool it would be), and I can guarantee that not a single person would "dismount" once in a Siege Turtle. I can also guarantee that it'll be a form of griefing since the turtles would literally be capable of being taken to the back and never forced to be dismounted. -- Konig / talk 20:21, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I though of that. There could be a time limitation on how much time you can ride the siege turtle. It could get exhausted while you ride it, or when you use its skills, or just it could only have dismount. There are plenty of ways like those to make it so if you really want that siege attack, you better just unstuck the thing, put it back on its tracks, and dismount. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 20:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I personally don't like the idea of turning them into mounts. Hell, it doesn't even make any sense. Especially lorewire, like Konig said. People who are turned into Juggernauts die, you can see it happening in the Eternal Grove mission. If it were to happen that turtles and/or 'nauts were turned into mounts however, I don't see it being much of a problem. Significant recharge times on the skills would make sure players wouldn't be overpowered. They'd still be able to die just as fast as a normal Turtle or 'Naut would. However I'd prefer for Arenanet to fix what is broken, rather than replace the whole idea with something brand "new". The research that comes with getting a new mount would require way too much money, whereas the fixing of the scripts shouldn't be too much hassle - Assuming the faults can be found fairly quickly. Elisa / talk


 * While Turtles just need a 'cockpit' so you can say that the player is in there (like the lamb inside the box in The Little Prince), for Juggernauts it's harder. They must be controlled from within, and the one that controls them will die. Maybe the Vengeance of the gods could be apower that allows people to control juggernauts without dying, and they could use refined amber to activate a 'prototype' of that, so one player at a time can take over a single Juggernaunt by standing in a certain altar behind Gunther. Their body stays there, and they can control the Juggernaut until it dies. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 20:43, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make sense tactically. Why have one autonomous being assume control of another autonomous being (thereby losing control of the former) when you can have two autonomous beings kicking ass at the same time? -- R i ddle 20:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The amount of effort to do something like that would be huge. Cheapest and best way to fix the PvP area's is to address the faults in the scripts. Otherwise they might as well overhaul the entire thing and come up with something entirely new - Which I REALLY don't see happening for multiple reasons, one of them being the insane amount of money and time necessary to do that. Anyhoo this is not a forum, and therefore I'll just patiently wait for a reply from someone from the team, rather than speculating endlessly. Elisa / talk
 * I took a look at it this morning after seeing the thread - seems like the turtles are handled entirely through code (instead of scripts) so there isn't anything I can do to fix it (but a lot of things I can do to break it!) this would be a question for Joe. He understands the secret and baffling language of Guild Wars... at least as far as anyone can understand it. John Stumme 22:40, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Figures that something that looked simple, is actually very complicated. I really hope the PvP bugs can easily be fixed tho'. It would definitely make the areas more interesting for people again - Especially those who neglect it because of the two teams not being on equal footing. Hell if I could, I'd take up a course in coding and offer my help to fix it. But as it stands, I only know how to create a custom map in Starcraft 2 xD PS: Took up the liberty of cleaning out the Turtle section a bit, to make it a bit easier on the eye. (I removed it intentionally, because the conversation was going on about mounts, instead of actually fixing a bug in the coding - A thing that's easier to do, than creating mounts that don't make sense lore-wise. Feel free to further discuss it on my private page) Elisa / talk

I moved the discussion since Stumme said that it's better placed here and the topic was made anyways. -- Konig / talk 03:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Trying to fix those turtles has destroyed better men and women than I. This is something I'd like to fix, it's just a difficult task, given the AI's sometimes bizarre behavior.  Ideally we'd change the mechanism itself as suggested in this thread, but that's another can of worms. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 00:56, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * mmmmm..... cans of worms... --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19px]] 01:25, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * If anyone can do it, it's the super ninja coder! Go Joe go!--[[Image:User Pyron Sy sig.png|19px| ]] Pyron Sy 04:05, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean. One day messing with Pascal I accidentally coded "The Algorithm of The End of the World". Luckily, I noticed on time and deleted it, but If I had ran that, we wouldn't be here right now. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 13:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Well Done!!
You were probably in charge of most of the coding on the mercenary heroes and the rest of the update. So... its freakin AWESOME!! Thanks, Joe! --Musha 23:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I concurr ^^ --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons 23:25, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Feedback:User/Qaletaqa/Character_Heroes. Thanks for getting it done :D. Not entirely the same but i'm happy. Qaletaqa Hania  [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg|talk]] 00:43, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this has been something I wanted to make happen since Nightfall launched, glad to hear players are enjoying it. There are still some bugs to iron out before it's everything I want it to be, but I'm really happy to finally get my various characters running around together. - Joe Kimmes [[Image:User Joe Kimmes Avatar.png|19px|Talk Page‎]] 18:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed, thanks, just fix my bug [[Image:Dervish-tango-icon-20.png|19px]] Devi Talk 18:22, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Mr. Kimmes it was a great update ^^ it really was I just don't like the fact survivor/drunkard/LDoA are so easy now :S some people (like me) worked really hard for this D: but except for that it was a great update + why are we only allowed to purchase 8 heroes I wanted 21 (1 for each of my characters) --User The Holy Dragons sig.png The Holy Dragons 18:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Mini Map
Each time we close gw and then log in again, the mini map is reset back to its original size and position. --Musha 03:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Govern the Guildless
Joe, this is urgent! It seems that all players in european districts (and those that started journeys there) are treated as guildless. Could you fix that with your magic hands? 88.153.105.75 18:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)