Talk:Death leveling

Flawed analasys data
I am very happy to see these charts, as I was thinking about doing them myself! However, why would a creature get 560 xp from you at lvl 16 and only 280 at lvl 18? I think after 5 lvls the XP is the same, as it has a cap. I'll explain more if necassry. LeFick 19:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed the tables for lvl 17 and 18, as monsters gain double xp like pets do too. I thought nobody would see these tables so I just left them unfixed (they were fixed in the guildwiki side though)

Energy Issues...
Has anyone had a problem after being AFK for several hours death leveling an elementialist, of trying to attack the death leveled creature and having the game report insuficent energy? The energy bar is full, but spells don't cast. LeFick 19:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It has been several months since my GF has tried, and today she again has that same problem. Anyone else have it?--Lefick [[Image:User Lefick Talk Icon.png|15px]] 12:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Tried two times today while leveling a pet, and both times it happened to me. Also tried rebooting the pc, but when i came back i had a full-exhausted energy bar, without regeneration. I was using hero-rez for this. Any clue?--Fighterdoken 22:00, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have this problem as well, I found a forum on presearing.com that said to use the -repair switch or to uninstall and reinstall Guild Wars, I tried both and still have the problem. Has Arena Net ever said anything about this?--Dougerus 04:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I had this issue earlier, and I somehow managed to fix it by spamming skills with ctrl held down. Don't know if that works in general though! ... Yea... Xlegna 02:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Is this title track worth the three months it would take to do it?
According to the article on getting the Defender title track it is estimated to take about three months to do this. But it does not specifically say how many hours each day it would take for those three months. Is this even worth the trouble?
 * imo its most respected title=p nyone will b stunned seein LDoA.,78.20.153.111 11:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Why would you respect this title? Should be renamed to "Legendary AFK-er of Ascalon." 69.129.199.244 16:42, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I consider Legendary Master of the North and Legendary Hero of the Zaishen to be way cooler than LDoA. The former is probably harder to acquire, due to the number of pain in the ass dungeons, particularly Duncan the Black. The latter I prefer, because we only need to use Zaishen Keys. 121.7.31.31 09:22, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Which is why both are "meh" titles for LDoA-ers. LMotN can be bought, specially the harder missions where runners are easier to find. As for LHotZ, same deal just that requires more money. At least LDoA requires both being able to set up your sessions (which some people just can't for some weird reason), and being mentally able to withstand the 30+ days it will take to afk it. If it were so easy of a title to get, everyone would get it for his KoaBD title.--Fighterdoken 22:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree with you, however your statement regarding "some people just can't for some weird reason" is a little harsh. There's always a good reason. One is the probability of their computer's overheating, electric bills or occupied by work/studying. 121.7.189.3 06:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It is worth it if you want it. ;-) Most ask me what kind of title it is anyway's. Some congratulate me because I was patient enough to get it. And that is all to it imho.  S ilverleaf   [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|Special:Contributions/Silverleaf]] Don't assume, Know! 09:58, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

intended easter egg?
Did you notice that in the table, the first time a char levels up has to kill you 13.37 times? :O &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 20:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

lol i just got it, 1337, ha ha i'm so slow :D Kraal 14:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

calculations
I calculated the amount of deaths (Needed xp/xp per 20*number of times needed to die to get a charr to 20) and came up with about 120000 deaths. If only there was an estimated time per death. Tearh 03:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It takes about 1 minute for a Level 1 Strider to do 100 Damage (without any armor). -- Silent Storm  [[Image: User SilentStorm MySig.png|19px]] 22:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "as monsters gain double xp" as mentioned in "flawed analysis data" means you only need to die 60000 times, and not 120000 times, I did the calculation too, and before i found this table, which means the table aint wrong as i came up with the same, 17 000 to be exact, but i didn't know monsters gained double xp, so if they do, less than 60k deaths needed. Also, there are tricks such as using frenzy (take double damage) lathough that requires you to complete a few quests, and be active, or use some autoclicekr (which might be considered bot/cheat).--Prince godrik 01:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Death leveling with several foes
They mention in this article that it's good to have as many foes as possible, so I ask, why is that good? Is it with just like a player and his pet that they all gain full xp? is that it? or is it just that several creatures can faster kill the player?--Prince godrik 11:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because spending a day to level up one monster is just stupid. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  02:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In general, having more foes makes them level up more evenly. If you plan on AFKing for the entire day (which I don't recommend because of disconnects), you should death level as many as you can bear to pull.  However, if you're planning on returning every 6 hours or so (which honestly isn't that unreasonable), it may be wise to death level one foe or one group at a time. --76.114.80.153 19:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Death leveling only one group of Charr
If you lure a group that contains two Charr Shamans to the resurrection shrine, it's then possible for a single group containing four Charr to kill the Academy monk.--Ascalon Runner 02:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I was able to get a group of 3 charr(2 hunters and an ashen claw)to kill all of the guards,true one of the hunters died(because i had it down to half before it was even at shrine) but it is possible for a group of 3 to take the shrine w/o a shaman98.168.154.149 09:55, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Was this method suggested because it is more efficient to level one group? or just to prove it could be done?--Pronoob5 17:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

death leveling a charr boss
Since starting the title track for LDoA I was wondering about the possiblity of leveling a boss. Since the bosses cant be pulled to the rez shrine it would seem like they cant be leveled easily. Wich is true, you have to let them kill you at their spot and run back and do it over and over. A Charr hunting buddy and myself managed to get Red Eye the Unholy to level 12 before we kill him. 209.234.183.159 21:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC) Lord Angel of Shade
 * Indeed, such method is possible but comparatively slower than ye olde charr deathleveling, which is why most people don't bother with it. In fact, using such method you can pretty much deathlevel anything anywhere. By example you can get a dire wolf in pre that way.
 * In any case, note that there is no practical advantage in killing a leveled 20 charr boss over, let's say, a leveled 20 moa.--Fighterdoken 21:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

..Well.. you get a Morale Boost every run.. thats gotta raise spirits right? Lol Aerie 19:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Bosses give double exp, so it would be.... more exp per run, but slower getting killed.(Whoops, forgot to sign)Hasaple 02:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Clarification
So you death level the monsters to level 20 then you kill them then you start again? the monsters do not stay at 20. Arcadia 12:13 24 October 2008
 * Yes, you have to death level them every time you zone. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  02:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? I never realized this. Man, forget trying to get LDoA, its just not worth it. Link_Gorro 01:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

running away
just thought i'd like to share a decent tip i know of which can help people who are new to death leveling.

talk to Gwen in pre-searing and then set up the death level, then make sure Gwen blocks the foe's back-path so they cant escape far from the shrine.

hope it helps

more
could somebdy add a colum with total deaths since level 5? and also a chart if your level is level 20 => for pet death leveling. thx Rhonin Soren 15:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming you are level 20 when you do this and your pet you will be taming starts at level 5...


 * 98.219.48.111 16:30, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Death Leveling in PVP?
Ok so I finally get my Raven from eye of the north in that impossible sacnoth valley but I didn't have enough uninterrupted time to death level it with the enemies there being lvl 22+ and so I was wondering now that I have charmed it can I death level it in 1v1 pvp matches? In theory it should be the same principal. Yes scrimmages have time limits so it will have to be repeated but I figure about 2-3 levels per match is possible. I want to level it to dire, so doing it out in the world is going to be very hard. Any suggestions?
 * Now with the Zaishen menagerie its pretty simple, you turn it in there, and go to the place were the nice little (lvl 5) raven fly around. Now the trick, you attack them to make them red, but they dont attack you. If youll then kill yourself, get your me/mo to res you, and rinse and repeat, it WILL level. Turn it in again at lvl 20, when its hearty, adn you can het a lvl 20, dire raven! works with all pets. Niccy 22:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Number of kills to reach next level
I modified the Level 16 table to show the number of foes of each level one has to kill to reach the next level (requires 11,000xp). As a contestant for LDoA, I find this a more "intuitive" value, especially as I begin to understand the number of Charrs I can bring to a given level after one night afk (7h) or one day afk (12h). I intend to do the same for the other levels as I progress, but if someone wants to complete, be my guest--58.5.245.251 11:31, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Fynn Flameseeker

It took me 3 hours (MT) to tame a dire tiger at level 16. It took just that long to get it to level 15! Eryops3 00:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Death leveling a dire pet
I can personally DL a pet to dire in about 20 minutes, not the 40 or 50 which this particular article states. Is it okay that i will show MY methode of DLing pets, which is quit a bit quicker? 86.80.183.215 14:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC) (forgot password)(Niccy)
 * I'd put it here briefly then see what people say... I would personally use Gwen+Norgu+Olias+self
 * Gwen+Norgu with Resurrect, Restore Life, Mantra of Recovery, Mending, Renew Life or Res Chant [disabled]. 10 Healing Prayers, 16 Fast Casting
 * Olias with BiP, Blood Ritual, Masochism, Mystic Regeneration, Vital Boon, Dark Bond, 16 Blood Magic, 13 Soul Reaping, 8 Earth Prayers
 * Self with Charm Animal and 1hp... a sacrificing skill like BiP is useful too.
 * Have Gwen & Norgu maintain Mending on themselves. Get yourself killed until you have 60% DP. Now when you die Gwen and Norgu will use their Res's to res you but you will die immediately and the pet will gain exp from this death. They'll use MoR to shorten the cooldowns on the reses and get BiP'd by Olias to have enough energy to cast em. Xlegna 02:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, if ever you get to your pet to level 20 and he's not Dire just take him to the Zaishen Menagerie, turn him in and then get the Training Captain to give you a level 15 Dire Pet of the same type. Getting those last 5 levels doesn't take long at all, especially if you do something like go Trapping. That is the only real problem with this method afaik. Xlegna 02:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I forgot to mention, once you get to level 20 force-cast Renew Life on yourself and immediately unequip your -hp gear. Once you have some hp you should be able to tame the pet easily. Xlegna 02:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just read the entry about 2 above here by Niccy talking about death leveling a pet in Zaishen Menagerie. Can do that with this build to speed things up. Xlegna 02:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm level 16 and death leveling a level 3 tiger. I've died two times already (LOL) and it hasn't leveled. Anyone know how many times I have to die for it to reach 12/15? XD Eryops3 21:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC) Now he's 4. How many times now? Eryops3 21:36, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Once he reaches level 12, does it say its evolution? Eryops3 22:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the fastest way to DL the pets in the Menagerie?
^ What's the fastest way to do it while afk? I want to DL a lot of pets and don't want to mess around with having to micro skills or set up a macro. 24.26.253.105
 * I find this works extremely well:
 * Put armor on yourself with all superior runes to decrease your health and equip a vampiric weapon.
 * Have a mesmer/ritualist hero with 16 in Fast Casting and Flesh of My Flesh as its only skill.
 * Have a monk/necromancer hero with 12 in Healing Prayers, 12 in Blood Magic, and Offering of Blood, Blood Ritual, and Patient Spirit as its only skills.
 * Piss off whichever level 5 pet you wish to death level (hit it once).
 * Flag your heroes in the middle of the pets wandering radius, and stand there yourself.
 * Block Patient Spirit and let the vampiric weapon kill you.
 * Die twice to get down to 1 health.
 * Unblock Patient Spirit and watch the show.
 * When you are done leveling the pet, quickly switch off the vampiric weapon during the half second you are alive (using weapon sets), and charm the animal.
 * Should take less than 15 minutes per pet and produces a hearty pet. If there is more than one animal that gets angry, kill off the ones you don't want to level.  Blood Red Giant  [[Image:User Blood Red Giant sig.jpg]]  Mani Mortus  01:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * IMO it's easiest to use TWO rezzers, each with two <100% heals + one damage dealer. Also bring a 100% rez with you and disable it. I usually take a pvp character (free runeset) and equip it a grim chesta. I also take BiP and signet of suffering (inflict bleeding on self) to kill myself very quickly. Don't forget to kill all but one of the creatures you aggroed. See User:Karasu/Menagerie for times. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 10:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * For myself, I bring a 1hp BiP setup, vamp weapon and 3 heros with fast reses (UA etc), pin them in the middle and watch the show. I cant remember which reses I use but the heros dont run out of energy. Lynx Raven Raide  [[image:User Lynx Raven Raide Logo.png|User:Lynx Raven Raide]] 10:35, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Can all Menagerie pets be DL'd?
i attacked both a moa bird and warthog (seeing as they're both in the same area) and atm the moa is at lvl 12 but the hog is still at lvl 5? Kraal 14:36, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

hmm dont know how but i seem to have fixed it. i think it was just the fact that i attacked the moa first so it got the exp first. i handed in the lvl 20 moa and now the hog is getting the exp... Kraal 15:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes they can. -Drakora 20:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, not in the menagerie. The Rainbow Phoenix is the only exception. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I CAN confirm all pets within the menagiere are DeathLevel'able(With Exclusion to Rainbow Phionix), Ive created a guide to it(On my website,Check my Userspace,its somewhere there.) -- Nei l2250 User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 13:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

There's a level 14 monster in pre-searing Ascalon
I'm staring at a level 14 Tomb nightmare in the pre-searing Ascalon catacombs. It seems to me like this whole thing is pointless since you can just farm it.206.174.5.129 07:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ??? Please provide a picture, as no level 14 enemy has ever been found in Pre-Searing since Guild Wars came out.  Blood Red Giant  [[Image:User Blood Red Giant sig.jpg]]  Mani Mortus  08:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * False. [[Image:User_Ryuu_R.jpg|19px]] Ryuu  - talk  09:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Level 4 maybe...? ... Ζεφ  19:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

About the Charr
I was wondering if it'd be appropriate to add a section to his article. You know add a bit about the hunters, casters, and warriors in relation to their leveling while AFK... I was intending to just add it and see what you did w/ it... but I don't have enough time for that right now... so I figured I'd ask... EDIT:  Ζεφ  10:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Death Leveling with pet
Does Death Leveling with a Pet make monsters level faster? --Copper Legray 05:04, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please sign your posts. And yes, if you're using a resurrection shrine method, a pet dying over and over will give monsters extra XP. | 72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg (U|T|C) 02:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Lol, sorry about that--Copper Legray 05:04, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * So dying at a resurrection shrine means pets do give experience on death to charr/wolf/strider's/ice elemental's etc and the enemy will level up faster?? There seems to be a lot of people saying pet's do NOT give experience and a lot of people saying pet's DO give experience :( The reason i ask is because i have a dire pet level 20 that would speed up my charr death levelling by a mile :D ... T1Cybernetic [[File:User T1Cybernetic Glob of Ectoplasm.png]] 18:10, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * At this point i can't remember anymore, but it's something that should be easily test'able by yourself.
 * In any case, note that having a lvl 20 pet means that whichever critter you are DL'ing with will at times have to kill the pet before killing you. At low levels, this will be a huge time sink, far higher than the 10 seconds it will take for you to respawn, and then get killed again.--Fighterdoken 18:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

American spelling
(Unfortunately for every sane person), the wiki, the game, and Arena.net, as well as many of the users, employ the American spelling. The American spelling does not double some consonants when adding "ing" (i.e., making it present continuous tense); this includes "worshiping", "traveling", "signaling", and the like. It also includes "leveling". If you believe that this is never a valid spelling, compare the Google hits.

This must be moved back. | 72  (UTC) 01:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. Here is a GW page from guildwars.com on "Leveling" Anyone opposed? -- Threid User Threid sigicon.png 01:53, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree, most people will prefer Death Leveling. Of course a redirect from Death Levelling is a must. --[[Image:User_Karasu_sig.png|19px]] Karasu (talk) 21:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. One "L" should be used. -Ninjatek 15:20, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

How many level 20 charr to get from level 16>20
How many level 20 charr do i have to kill to get from level 16>20 ? Just thought i would straight up ask the question... T1Cybernetic 13:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * From the table in the article you need:
 * 66 to level 17
 * 77 from 17 to 18
 * 90 from 18 to 19
 * 120 from 19 to 20
 * That sums 353 lvl 20 charrs. You may need less, though, since you more than likely will also need to kill some at lower level from time on time.--Fighterdoken 21:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was never any good at maths so you have just done me and many other who ask this question a HUGE favour, Thank you very much... T1Cybernetic [[File:User T1Cybernetic Glob of Ectoplasm.png]] 23:50, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Not the quickest way to death-level until you get to Level 19, though. If you're at Level 16, the extra experience you would gain from taking a Level 17 charr to Level 20 would not compensate you for the extra time it would take to get that charr to Level 20. You can see this in the table by comparing the extra experience gained against the extra player deaths required, and that's what the min/max exp per (player) death column is about. It's better to kill the charr once they reach your level or your level+1.  This means you'll have to kill more charr, but it will be quicker in the long run. ... Kirbett 01:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest i was basing the deaths off of wolfs/strider's at the ashford abbey shrine rather than charr over the wall but seeing as the experience is the same from either dying it just sounded better if named charr. If it is going to take at least a year doing 1 death level a night then groups of charr it is... T1Cybernetic [[File:User T1Cybernetic Glob of Ectoplasm.png]] 09:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Added Menagerie DL to the Article
My wiki skills are weak but I felt it an important addition. I just summarized the information here and what I learned on my own. Nietzsche 08:48, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

ice elemental death leveling
is a not mentioned on the page and is good way for lvl 14 chars to get to lvl 16 for charr deathleveling. Here is an exemple how to level them...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5HDy-C8UR8...but i have question, does foes get exp when they do not attack?(while the others attack and kill you constantly)95.33.28.113 21:16, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as a foe is engaged and within one agro bubble, they "should" get exp every time you die regardless of they hitting you or not, but i am not sure how much (if any) they get when there are instances of monsters doing damage and others not at the same time.--Fighterdoken 17:49, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Rewards System!
I love it. Guild wars is the ONLY rpg i know in which you can GAIN REWARDS by KILLING YOURSELF. It's like an emo's paradise, as well as an E/Mo's paradise. 119.224.44.246 10:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. You don't get rewards for killing yourself, but for making your opponents stronger by killing you so you can then kill them later.
 * In that regard is more of a S&M paradise than an emo's one.--Fighterdoken 17:31, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

It is a hotbed of unhealthy compulsive behaviour. I hope GW2 does not include this kind of grinding. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Kiteeye (talk).
 * To be fair, GW1 didn't include this kind of grinding either. People deathleveled for hours in Pre way before there was even a title for it.
 * The title exists because people was doing it anyways...--Fighterdoken 01:51, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Energy Bug
I was death leveling a pet in the ZM, but after the pet reached level 20, and tried to charm it, I got a message saying not enough energy. I was suprised becouse I was an 55hp monk, (1 hp with 60 dp), and used 2 UA heroes to quickly rez myself. UA gives you back 100% of your energy when rezzed, and the blue bar was full as it should have been. But spells displayed a message, stating that there is not enough energy, and pinging the energy bar also revealed that i had no energy, even after several minutes of regenerating. My guess is that my energy somehow went way below 0, much like when afking in the exhaust zone of the deep, it mught be a bug with UA. I think it's worth to note it.--84.0.115.213 00:17, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Waiting about 15 mins did not fix the problem, but killing gw.exe with task manager and reconnectiong 1-2 mins later did. It is still possible that the energy pool recharged during that time. --84.0.115.213 00:46, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Relatively common problem with death leveling; not too sure why it occurs, though. However, from the various reports of the bug, it appears to be strictly client side, thus why resetting your client fixed it. If you'd like to report it, there's a bug reporting page here.  Blood Red Giant  [[Image:User Blood Red Giant sig.jpg]]  Mani Mortus  01:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks. If it's a common problem, then why is it not included in the article?--84.0.115.213 12:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, the bug is not exclusive of deathleveling but happends any time you try to use skills after a series of continuous deaths/rezzes. When i tested some time ago (i could be wrong) it happened only when using resurrection spells that raised you with X% of Energy.
 * The only way to avoid it that i found was to use Resurrect or other spells that raised you with zero energy.--Fighterdoken 22:50, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

PreSearing - Charr Shamans
It says "# Charr Shamans have to be killed first, thus a group containing 2 or fewer non-monks is not desirable". It doesn't give a reason for this. I haven't had any trouble death leveling parties that include Shamans - in fact, they tend to have an easier time killing the gate guards (a party including one Shaman and one Hunter will do it without losing anyone every time - there are a few other groups of 4 that can as well, but that's the most reliable). Since the optimal rate seems to be leaving them alone until they are within ~1 level of you, and I'm generally gone long enough for this to happen with a party of 4 Charr (or longer), I've always left the Shamans alive. Why does it seem to imply that you can't? Lillian ap Cor 16:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem is not "deathleveling" the group of charrs with shamans inside, the problem is killing them.
 * Shamans are healers. Put enough of them into the pancake and (unless you have some monstruous dps) you will be unable to kill a single critter after the deathleveling session ends (specially true if you are still low level). Of course, this is assuming you are actually pulling several groups of charrs and not just one like what i think you are doing. If you just pull one, it doesn't really matter.--Fighterdoken 02:22, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm just pulling one group. Since groups level separately, I'm not quite sure what good multiple groups would do; I tried separate groups outside the wall (of 1 animal each) and only one would level at all.  If that's the case with the Charr, I'm not quite sure why I would want to pull more than one group.  Is it to increase the damage so you die faster?
 * It seems misleading to say that they have to be killed first without the explanation that it only holds if you're going to pull multiple groups - particularly since it invalidates the last point: you don't need to pull multiple groups just to kill the Academy Monk if you keep a shaman along (and have a Hunter, other groups with shamans may or may not do it without losing a charr).
 * Is it trying to say "you want to pull multiple groups for faster kills, which means you want to kill the shamans first so you don't end up with a group with too many shamans, which means that you NEED those multiple groups"? That would make sense, but without some reason to pull multiple groups in the first place, it doesn't sound like there's a reason for the last two cons; you simply have to set it up using a good single group of 4 - which there usually is (though I've seen cases where there isn't, it's quite rare that one of the easily-pulled groups doesn't meet the conditions).  Lillian ap Cor 05:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, that part probably could be worded better to point out that it is situational, and not a "must not matter what" condition.
 * Regarding the "why" pull multiple groups, it's part of the whole "pancake stacking" method. If you put several independant groups (in this case of charrs) and pack them together, they will start (for some reason) sharing both their aggro and experience gains, so depending on your skill pulling you could easily end with two or three groups of charr into the "main exp pool" in a 4-groups pancake.
 * In then end, by pulling multiple groups you could end with 8 charrs at level 20, 3 at level 15 and 3 at level 10, by example. Also worth mentioning that the more charrs you pull, the fater you will die at higher levels, which also speeds up your deathleveling session.--Fighterdoken 16:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting - perhaps it's just that it depends on which group kills you, and they are powerful enough to trade off to some extent while the monsters I tested with may not have been, alone; I'm not sure why I'd get such different results (or exactly why that works). Still, I think I understand what it's trying to say now, and how to rewrite it.  Thanks! - Lillian ap Cor 04:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to note, you can pull as many groups of Charr with Shaman as you dare and then once they are levelled up enough to harvest experience from them, Just run like crazy away from the shrine and split the groups up so you can harvest groups individually, It takes slightly longer and get's frustrating some times but it's something different to try at the very least !!! T1Cybernetic [[File:User T1Cybernetic Glob of Ectoplasm.png]] 12:50, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Quick thought-up mechanic
Obviously, this would require the person to not be afk, but the -40 armor from healing signet could give a boost to the weaker charmable animals in pre-searing to get them through the first and longest levels. (I'm operating under the assumption that their DPS goes up as they level.) One could possibly activate it and move to cancel it before the heal kicked in. The universal access across profs (as a secondary prof quest skill) is a boon. Can someone stomp on this or verify it? Edit: I'm also going under the assumption that the -40 still helps after taking off armor. Of course, it it doesn't... Thefinalwars 22:32, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Evolution issue in Pre-Searing
I don't know why, but when I was death leveling a Strider to be level 20, it never evolved. I know I only hit it once, and I had another Strider helping out, but still, I thought it would have been evolved, at least when I rezoned.

Alas, I'm stuck with a level 20 unevolved, short Strider, although it's not useless in Pre. Anyone else experience this? Note I was just outside Barradin's Estate, not in Lakeside County. Took about 8-9 hours. 68.59.126.206 04:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I just spent 7 hours death leveling a warthog in the Northlands to level 15. When I charmed it, I expected it to be a dire pet, but there is no modifier listed before its name.  I zoned and saw not change in type or size.  I renamed it in town and out of town but when the name was reset, I still saw no change in type or size.
 * I think there is something that we are not understanding and isn't described in this article or the Animal companion article. It may be a good idea to look through the discussion page of the animal companion article.140.226.190.83 08:34, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If you don't charm first, then the non-pet isn't doing much damage; you're suiciding. That's probably not enough to cause it to evolve. See: Animal companion. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 10:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC)