Talk:Game updates/20080710

Ursan
Earlier I heard that there was a rumor of an Ursan nerf today. Well, was it nerfed? &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

DIS UPD8 IS RLY FKIN GUD, I LUFFS THE CAWK -- Readem 23:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it wasn't changed. 000.00.00.00 23:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Regina said the skill is being looked into, so eventually, it will become changed. --Matt The P. [[Image:Sliver Armor.jpg|19px|talk]] 23:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Or they will decide its fine and no change will happen. -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 23:06, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope they will decide that it's fine :-) I'm one for ursan, because to be honest, I don't see what all the fuss is about lol. --Matt The P. [[Image:Sliver Armor.jpg|19px|talk]] 23:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

did anyone else see some rather immature things on the original build page? like the moment it was opdated


 * Maybe next month we'll see a yes or no to a change for Ursan 000.00.00.00 23:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * From the Developer Update: "We are currently testing changes to Ursan Blessing and PvE-only skills. One of the goals is to balance Ursan such that players can still use it as long as they do so in a tactical way. Another goal is to alter the grind currently associated with many PvE-only skills" : D Erasculio 23:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It would also be nice if you copied and pasted the rest too :P "Additionally, we are adjusting a number of underpowered and rarely used elite skills. Depending on how testing goes, some or all of these changes may be released as soon as next month." 000.00.00.00 23:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Izzy is probably going to add damage to wounding strike, since it's obviously not powerful enough to be taken out of the game yet. ~Shard (talk) 23:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I just added a link to the DevUpdate itself, since it's better to just read the entire thing. Erasculio 23:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Erasculio, just thought about that myself :P 000.00.00.00 23:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

lol, also gave out torny pts

so
wuzzup with the update? --Super  Igor  23:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * They took CV out of scythe and into wind prayers, making it the only scythe attack in any other attribute other than scythe... [shrugs] 000.00.00.00 23:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 50% of "scythe attacks" aren't even scythe attacks - they're melee attacks. Way to go, nightfall testers...oh wait, nobody did that job.  Amirite, Signet of Ghostly Might? ~Shard (talk) 23:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes 50% are "Melee Attacks" but they require investment in SM. Why invest in SM, then invest in ANOTHER att~ line when Scythes are THE highest damage Melee weapon in the game?. Probably an oversight, but puzzling why they did it non the less. Madda--86.13.248.50 18:09, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

assassin hate
Just take assassin's out of the game. kthxbye. On a more serious note, an aftercast delay to shadowsteps? Whats the point. So much for this thing called "suprise." And I was just starting to get into the game again. 71.252.51.146 23:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe to lessen shadow step effect in spikes. De1m0s 23:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Since when did people use Aura of Displacement again? Admittedly, I use it myself, but I haven't seen any other player use it in the past half year, actually. It's mostly Shadow Prison and/or Dark Prison (especially in HB's) Saphatorael 23:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Some Derv builds use it, and AoD SS is pretty powerful.
 * Shadow stepping already removes positioning from the game. Might as well give people -something- to deal with it, since they obviously can't do things like kite.  Pluto 23:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When you find out how to kite an attack that can hit you from a mile away, let me know.
 * When you find out how to kite out of a 66% movement penalty, let me know.
 * When you find out how to make Guild Hall NPCs kite, let me know. ~Shard (talk) 23:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would actually be happy if Assassins were made a PvE-only profession. Assassins and Dervishes, maybe Paragons too. And maybe Ritualists too, until they're fixed at least. Would be a change from the "let's keep it broken and fix one skill per month" Arena Net follows into "let's keep it fixed and add one skill per month". Erasculio 23:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, Erasculio, thats just like saying remove Ursan from PvE until its fixed. That, and removing almost half of the professions is bound to aggrovate more than please. 000.00.00.00 23:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You know, removing Ursan until it's fixed isn't a bad idea either : D Erasculio 23:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You know, removing Ursan until it's fixed isn't a bad idea either : D ~Shard (talk) 23:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Attack skills are a one second activation. It's hard to put a 1/4 second cast in between the shadow step and attack activation?68.161.113.226 23:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Attack skills are not a one second activation - they activate as fast as your attack interval minus about half a second.
 * We're both wrong. Infact they attack at the SAME speed interval. Just type in attack speed in the search box to your left. That proves to make it EASIER because its 1 and a thrid second between tele and attack activation. At the fastest of course.68.161.113.226 00:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

ANET HAETS US!!!!! D: --Super  Igor  00:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Honestly this is the first update in a LONG time that has upset me. There was no point in nerfing the ONLY reason shadow stepping was added in the first place.
 * The sad thing is that the people who do nothing but whine (often the ones who report other people as Q_Q'ing) and obviously can afford to play for a living, thus requesting the game "require skill" (IOW, impossible for a casual player) are the only ones heard. I find it disturbing that anyone actually listens to these people, and make this harder and harder all the time. Certainly, a person who has played since the game was released would have more skill but those players are not bringing any new revenue to the game. They simply complain until their "l33t" status is returned as they are the only ones who find a new set of skills that work well together, then complain those skills work well together. So begins a new round of whining.
 * Simply put, ArenaNet is doing a great job but they can only try their best to please everyone. The vocal minority are the players who spend more time Q_Qing than playing and personally, I don't find their opinions to be worth much. Leave Ursan alone, and the point of splitting skill balance between PvP and PvE was to stop whiners from ruining the entire game because they found the same builds over and over in PvP areas.
 * I agree, an aftercast to Shadowstepping is a very poor idea and makes little sense for PvE, but then again I own 5 accounts, three of which contain all campaigns plus the BMP so I obviously haven't contributed enough because I'm sure someone will point out a flaw in my wiki etiquette rather than address the real issues here. The original comment was frustration over the real problem, which is players who do nothing but try to ruin the game for the casual gamers who are still buying new copies. It's sad to think I was trying to locate a retail copy of Nightfall for my wife because we enjoy playing. I don't see a point now because she works all day and removing a chance for her to have fun is not in the interest of the older gamers.
 * Sure, nerf Ursan and just remove assassins since she might have a chance to have fun without devoting her life to GuildWars. Her $50 for Nightfall is bad idea.
 * Ghosst 05:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Well said, and i completely agree with you --A zrea l of  S kyri m  08:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh well, yet another secondary profession my Warrior can no longer use. --SK 10:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * GJ Anet - i was holding onto a shred of hope that i might want to wait for GW2... honestly after this crap i now have a company i trust less to balance a game than Cryptic Studios (City of Heroes decided to balance a game by doing a system wide mass nerf.... it essentially killed the games popularty.) Thx for making sure i dont waste another $50 on more of this bs... This is 1 case where pve specific changes would have been well worth it.... BECAUSE they dont play the same part on pve means that youve completely removed their effectiveness in that aspect of the game.... AI doesnt need a second to react... Part of making a game is keeping the players happy - (as many as possible...) Nerfing a profession consistantly isnt a good way to keep its players happy at all... I had abit of hope with the pve seperation that i wouldnt be seeing anything this drastic... Oh well, now i remember why im playing WoW instead of GW for the past year... you get what you pay for... and i think i got tired of welfare level support. --Midnight08-- --69.248.254.231 10:09, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Didn't see any shadow stepping abuse in June GvG tournament, didn't see any Assassins at all... Is it because of petty, retarded and marginal 1v1 issues? Get 1v1 out of the game then, and stop ruining the fun for the 99.9% of the GW population. Shadow stepping was one of the features that made this game fun to play. Dionyssios 12:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that aftercast is a very shoddy solution. Not only did it kill the skill for legitimate assassins, it still failed to nerf shadowsteps the proper way. Bleh. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  12:09, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

@Cough@ what's this about a vocal minority? ^nudge^nudge^ComfortOsprey 12:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I was unclear, let me make it more simplistic: The vocal minority of players who do nothing more than insult ANet for not implementing the changes they want, and spend their time constantly nagging on the wiki are the ones who are breaking the game. They are the ones demanding skills and professions be broken because they do not like them. It's about time the rest of us stood up and said something for ourselves and I'm glad to see they are.
 * In the case that I'm still not understood here, the changes to skills should be limited to PvP, where balance is important and allows for a greater variety of builds to be used. In PvE, I don't see every third player running around with an Ursan Shadow-Stepping, Shadow-Form Assassin. And even if it were true, it would not affect my, my guild's, or my alliance's gameplay in the slightest. But to have those things taken away because a small group of people complain as loudly as they can is sad.
 * Ghosst 13:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that is another assassin hating update. Again caused by the hundreds of people who don't want to alter their builds at all to deal with an assassin. Quite honestly the reason people like Erasculio are complaining about assassins is that they have been playing this game from the time proph came out, and so have never learned to play a game with more than 6 professions or are just too much hating the fact that their build that they have used since the game began doesn't work anymore. However I started playing the game after nightfall was released so I play against all the professions and when I get killed I just look at what killed me then add some form of defense against that sort of attack. I do not just say "oh i was killed by one of the 4 added professions I'm going to complain on the wiki that they are overpowered because the only defense against them that i want to even think about is running away because otherwise it would change my beloved pvxwiki build and i can have that can I." All this basically adds up to the fact that people want assassins to be warriors - attack armor utility and anything else that makes assassins worthwhile at all. I mean anet killed assassin damage already with their major nerfs to Horns of the ox and trampling ox, next they now give the target of a shadowstep time to runaway as far as they were when the SS was cast, next they will probably make crit strikes return only a maximum of 1 energy per crit.
 * Over all people who are constantly Q_Qing about assassins should try to play the game and learn to counter them instead of crying about it here. And look at it this way, if MM are over running all parts of the game for some reason or another people don't complain about it here, they just toss vereta's aura on their skill bar and go their merry ways, why can't people who hate assassins just add shield bash or something similar to their bar to deal with time that they get killed by assassins a lot? I think this update to Shadow steps should be reverted, but if that is too much then make it a short aftercast, like 1/4 sec so that they have time to step away from the next attack, not run to the edge of your aggro bubble. Kraken 14:43, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Wait, why did these nerfs affect PVE too?Hyper Cutter 22:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * what the fuck do u have against assasins? If a monk isnt good enuf to hit dark escape or balanced stance or RoF after they see a sin tele, they dont deserve to be playing, put the surprise back into assasins and stop nerfing them. 24.141.43.76 02:24, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

As always, when it's a matter of skill balance, people get lost with what the matter is. Saying "I love assassins" is irrelevant - game design cannot be made to cater to what one player likes or dislikes, it has to aim at what is better or worse for the game. Assassins are bad for Guild Wars' PvP - and they're bad because they remove one of the main strategic elements of said game mode, learning how to position yourself in field (among other less important problems, such as how an assassin's skill bar has to be so filled with dagger attacks that it leaves little run for utility, how just pressing 1-2-3-4 for a combo does not require skill, and so on). Assassins hurting PvP does not rely on whether a couple people scream that they like assassins, nor on a pointless rant about other players ranting (irony much?), nor on whether there are counters to shadow stepping or not - therefore all those arguments are irrelevant, as far as skill balance goes. It's no surprising that assassins continue to be nerfed in PvP, and likely will still receive more nerfs, given how no one has bothered to answer why that profession would actually improve PvP instead of degrading it.

It's the same for everything else. Claiming that something does not hurt the game because it "does not change my playstyle" is being blind in the best case, and self centered in the worst - Guild Wars goes beyond one player or one playstyle. Erasculio 13:01, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok so you are saying that assassins are not good for the game because they can move differently than other professions? And also setting up a group of skills that need to be used in a specific order and not just spammed away requires less skill that just flinging out as many as possible firestorm like skills as you can fit on your bar. somehow i don't think you have ever played an assassin. Look I never said that assassins or any other profession does not affect my playstyle, in fact I have had builds go through hundreds of permutations before they actually were able to effectively deal with most of the common threats to them. I said that if you have trouble with a certain enemy build you change your build to counter that. the fact of the matter is that assassins are not really overpowered, and they have a specific role in gameplay. for example a fire ele can deal massive damage to a lager area and hurt many enemies at a time if he knows what he is doing, so people can complain that fire eles are overpowered, because if you place them behind a few warriors they can kill your team without you being able to reach them in time. Bingo assassin class is introduced into the equation, 2 assassins can teleport behind enemy lines and hit the spell casters with lots of conditions or damage or interrupts before they have to retreat and heal themselves. this evens the playing field for the warriors and tanks out front and lowers the damage dealt to them to a manageable level. Now from the spell casters' point of view. if they do not have to worry about assassins they may be able to get away with 7-8 attack skills on their bar, but when an assassin is a possibility they will have to make sure they also bring a defensive skill or 2, thus further lowering the AoE overload that they could otherwise inflict. So why not instead of complaining about how you think that assassins and other not War/monk/ele professions are too powerful and unstoppable, try stopping them first throw an extra defensive skill on your bar and actually use it. Kraken 21:30, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's an idea to remove some anger over updates thst aren't popular; let us decide not someone who spends their time complaining on a wiki. Not just for Assassin's being nerfed into uselessness, but Ursan, Dervishes, etc, etc. You can't say that they should look on a wiki they may or may not have ever heard of, make it a sign-in message so EVERYONE gets a chance to say something. Just put it on display, "Hey, we're going to kill Ursan Blessing - Do you agree with this?" "Hey, guys, we want to make Assassin's as useful as a toaster in a bath!" Let the people who pay the salaries of the gaming company make the decision, not just one of two vocal people who complain about how I personally choose to play and whine that they can't join my party. Why should your version of how I should play be heard instead of my opinion? We should all get a chance. If players think Ursan is over-powered and want it gone, then ArenaNet steps up to the plate knowing they have the backing of the people who buy their products. If we continue this style of "Well, Guild A wants it this way, so we're altering the game", then what's next? I have to listen to complaints about heroes and how when we first bought the game we didn't have them and they should be nerfed. I sign in the next day with my heroes deleted? Then what's next? Henchmen mean that people can play on their own, it's not fair and I'm going to complain? Nerfed! Give the rest of us a choice in this, not someone who wants me to play their way. I don't force anyone to party with me or play the way I do. Why do you get to? Ghosst 23:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Same mistake again. It does not matter what one player think - a player who is concerned with what is better for himself is not considering what is better for the game. It does not matter if it's a vocal minority complaining on the official wiki against the nerfing of a profession they enjoy (while ignoring the reason why said profession is bad for the game - notice how that's "for the game", not "for me") or if it's a poll in the login screen of GW - everyone who is concerned with his own playstyle and nothing else is being blind about everything the game is and being self centered by expecting the game to follow only his/her own wishes.
 * That's why "EVERYONE" being heard is irrelevant. What matters is the consistency of what is said, not how many players are saying it - so if only one player provides an irrefutable argument why a feature hurts the game, and half a dozen players reply to said argument with "I don't like that change"...The logical thing for Arena Net to do would be to listen to the single player and remove said feature from the game.
 * So far, what Arena Net believes in is that the old status of shadow stepping was hurting GW. I hope the many arguments (reasonable, logical arguments, instead of "please don't nerf my favourite profession" or "I have bought twelve copies of GW, so you should make the game what I want it to be) explaining why SS is bad for GW did influence Arena Net's opinion. In the end, though, I am not the one telling you how to play - Arena Net is, and the reason they get to do so is because it is their game, not yours. Erasculio 01:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I just dont see your point at all. Assassin's making your PvP experience more work has nothing to do with my playing an assassin in PvE and suffering the loss of use of that profession because you don't like the order I push buttons in. Sadly, my warrior, uses skills. And sometimes, I use them in the order of 1-2-3-4. On occasion, when I feel the need to interrupt something, I press 5. Now if I remap the keys so I have to use T-I-F-G and occsionally ^ will that mean I have more skill? Will that be better for the game?
 * Now before you miss it, I did not say you had no point, just that I don't see it. I think I will at least go try out Ursan so I can find out what I would lose if it were up to you. You obviously are having a hard time following me, and I would ask you to at least try to think things through before you try to use my accounts against me. My simple point was that I am supporting the company that makes the game by generating revenue. I did not say my arguement was more valid, that would border on the logic you seem to be displaying (again, "seem", I cannot be sure). I simply said, you might want to consider, for the good of the people that make the game, that more revenue means you can continue to play. Angering players is perhaps not the best idea. And BTW, I am not an angry player either since you might misread that aswell.
 * Here, I'll sum it up in one line ... Leave PvE alone. Balance PvP all you want, those players can make their own case. Mine is for, and solely for, PvE. (Okay, two lines, meh). Ghosst 03:09, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey I just tried Ursan ... yeah, you're right, that skill will ruin the game ... because it's too much fun! Ghosst 04:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Am I SERIOUSLY the only one that uses wolven and raven blessings only? I never use Ursuan. too easy to use. Raven and wolf are still easy, but requires some form of skill....--[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering Traveler  04:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ghosst, again you completely missed my point: "Assassin's making your PvP experience more work" - not only that's not what I have said, it's the opposite of what I have been saying since my first indent above. Please read more carefully what I have writen and, if you manage to actually understand it, let me know so we may continue this discussion. Erasculio 11:10, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Traveller: I was going to try and get those today as well. As for Ursan being easy ... I just seem to get myself into more trouble; this little cub got burned by the Charr. But I had a blast doing it and it makes me want to play more. I look forward to trying out the oter two blessings today.
 * Erasculio, I do recall asking you for clarification. However, due to the hour, I may not have seen your original point which is why I'd like to see it. I don't take any of this personally so take a little step back. I have no illusions that I will convince you, I just don't see why my assassin (the Ursan was a side-note that is now too in-depth for this area) should have to be nerfed. As far as I can tell, it was done to stop PvP from being overrun with characters playing solely with assassins. But PvE has nothing to do with that. In regards to your PvE point of view, please repost it conscisely. I seem to be missing the forest for the trees here and I would love to see what that argument is. Ghosst 12:00, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Very well: in regards to PvE, I think (although for now that's a guess) that it does not matter. Do I believe that shadow stepping hurts the PvP game? Yes, for the reasons I mentioned above. Do I think ss hurts the PvE game? No, given how there the strategic element of positioning yourself isn't nearly as important as in PvP (thanks to how dumb the AI is, which explains why strategies such as tanking work in PvE). Do you think nerfing ss in PvP hurts me or helps me? It doesn't do either, as it does not change how I play, and how I play is not my concern. Do you think nerfing ss in PvE hurts you? That I don't know - I doubt said nerf will have a big impact in PvE exactly because positioning isn't as important there, but that's something that would require both time and observation to be confirmed. If you think nerfing shadow stepping hurts the PvE game and you would suggest to undo the nerf for PvE...As long as you have any argument, I'm not against it. In fact, my original statement here was that I believe Assassins, Ritualists, Paragons and Dervishes should be removed - but exclusively from PvP, so they would be kept, unerfed, on PvE. Therefore if you ask to "Leave PvE alone", at least regarding assassins we don't really disagree with each other. Erasculio 13:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reposting, and yes we agree on assassins. On other issues, well those are seperate and not meant for here. I can agree I may be wrong about anything, I just present my issues with massive changes and how disappointing it is to see one profession getting nerfed into muling or dancing in town. Ghosst 16:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me clarify my position. I play both PvE and PvP and I play to have FUN. I was and still am against separation of PvP/PvE ballancing. My warrior is my favourite character, but I think Eviscerate should be nerfed to oblivion, Eviscaxes are the most retarded thing in this game. Second most retarded thing in the game is HB, worst than hero-henching Ascalon in normal mode. I don't care about Ursan, never play it and never group with people who do, don't have time to spend with rude ignorant kids (well most of them). I believe the nerf to shadow-stepping is intended for HB, and to a lesser extent for W/A and D/A in other forms of PvP, because Assassins are NOT used anymore in GvG, guess why. If shadow stepping is a problem, here is the solution:
 * 1. Get HB out of the game, it doesn't belong there, or give it specific skills, like in festival events. Don't balance the game taking into account HB, it is as if you did taking into account 1v1 skirmish.
 * 2. Make shadow stepping exclusive to primary Assassins.
 * 3. Buff enormously Assassins and Necros so as to make GvG interesting again.
 * 4. Organise Prophecies PvP tournaments and events for people inclined to nostalgia and who don't like the 4 new proffessions (I'm not one of them).

Thank you for your patience. Dionyssios 09:36, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What he ^ said. SS I believe is not overpowered in and of itself. this is because one assassin has to work very hard to solo kill even a caster now, so even if they can teleport to the back line most of what they do will just take the monks focus off of the main battle for a while, creating an opening that might be able to be exploited. But I admit that in my previous arguments I overlooked D/As and W/As useing the SS. It is one thing to jump to and deal damage to a rear line character, it is completely different for a derv to teleport to the rear lines and kill all the casters at once. so I belive that the SS skills could be reworked something like this: Dark prison, Spell, target for moves 33% slower for 1...4..6 seconds, if rank in crit strikes is 4 or higher you shadow step to target foe. that would allow only assassins to use shadow steps and would prevent tanks and other heavy units from jumping behind enemy lines. Erasculio, You are just doing exactly what I was saying before. You are saying that you will not alter your playstyle to counter assassins or anything else so instead you come to the wiki to complain about the class and ask for it to be removed from the PvP aspect of the game. You are saying that it hurts the game and so it should be removed, why does it hurt the game other than that people need to develop new tactics to counter it? Teleports are not that amazing really, a ranger can do most of the stuff an assassin does but from further away that a SS can reach and they don't place themselves in harms way, but how many people complain about rangers (other than touchers)? Really just give a clear explanation of how assassins (or the other 3 professions)are Hurting the game or unbalancing it or whatever. If it just Boils down to "they make the game different from proph and make people plan ahead and add more depth to the game" Then I dont see how that is Hurting the game. Kraken 19:06, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Developer Updates
this hasn't been updated to refect the update yet maybe good to remove? 75.165.124.46 23:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * canceled, its up now75.165.124.46 23:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Good job nerfing spikes
Way to take out the element of surprise in a spike. Great job nerfing signet of mystic speed! We all know that was the problem (NO POSSIBLE WAY WOUNDING STRIKE IS OVERPOWERED AMIRITE). Arenanet is successfully ruining an already ruined game.


 * QQ just use guardian..... The only problem with wounding is that deep wound is covered by bleeding.... thats the only problem with Wounding Strike.68.161.113.226 23:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Look at the recharge on guardian and then look at the recharge on wounding strike. Also, ever hear of switching targets?


 * The unsigned was ironically correct, ruining a ruined game is pretty good. 91.152.191.249 00:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You have a second prot.. SoA kills any damage on a target. Gives you an extra 7 seconds to RC. Use a 40/20/20 set. If you lose to some wonding strike team, get a better prot monk.


 * Why would I sign my comments? If I wanted to use wiki, I would use guildwiki, not this site. There is a sign for you.(71.236.101.181 00:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC))

QQ less about WS and get a better protect monk. There is no reason you should lose against a WS team if your protect monk is decent, if not then get a better on. Since the last update I have yet to see a single person who is for a WS nerf make a single, solid comment as to why it should be nerfed. Just more QQing, like those who want Ursan to remain as it; don't give any solid reasons to back themselves up. But this isn't the ursan page so I'll stop now.--Masato 00:26, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Wounding strike is an easily spammed skill where deep wound covers bleeding. Don't you think deep wound (not to mention bleeding) shouldn't be able to be applied every 3 seconds (not mentioning a scythe can easily hit multiple people)?

That's fine, because if your protect monk can't apply Guardian or another spell to you to give you a chance from beating hit then they fail. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Game_updates/20080702#so.......

Read the section titled: so...... for reasons given by myself and a few other people on why WS is fine as is.--Masato 14:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

So we got the AT rewards

 * Now where's the skill balance update? All I see is a bunch of already balanced skills that got weaker.
 * Anet needs to add this to their Random Comment Generator:
 * "We feel that pvp would be more fun if everybody was forced to run the same thing, so we nerfed a bunch of random shit and left all the broken skills in the game untouched." ~Shard (talk) 23:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Everyone already runs the same thing, IE: Sway, WS, Rao, RC etc...

Been that way for years.--Masato 00:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess why? ~Shard (talk) [[Image:User_Shard_Sig_Icon.png]] 01:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Of course, but honestly give me back my EW revert and I'll be fine. I don't really complain to often about pvp skill changes since my alliance is good at finding ways to keep their builds fuctioning at a decent level.--Masato 14:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

this update
fails. --Super  Igor  23:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, and to think someone gets paid to do this... Good thing I rarely use CV, or I might have been mildly ill-tempered. Hollow 23:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Anet: I will balance this game for free. Armond will balance this game for free.  Nuklear will balance this game for free.  Lilondra will balance this game for free.  Hell, pretty much anybody will balance this game for free and it will turn out better than Izzy's best.  Fire him or move him to another job, you're losing players.  Say bye bye to GW2 sales. (awaiting one day ban, but it was worth saying). ~Shard (talk) 23:51, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol they fail at balancing even more than Izzy does, Shard dont make the game go down faster than it already does. --Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 00:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone go look at Igor's skill balance page right now so his credibility goes to the crapper as soon as possible. Igor, you have no right to say other people's balance ideas are bad. ~Shard (talk) [[Image:User_Shard_Sig_Icon.png]] 01:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

the noticeboard is going to be filled today....a, i the only one that is just rolling with all this good stuff/crap and waiting patiently for GW2? (this is Raph...i forgot to sign in ><)--167.142.168.14 00:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I'll most likely be busy playing Warhammer. I haven't decided on GW2 yet, with what I'm seeing here I'm not in a hurry either. --[[Image:User_Hollow_Gwsig.png]] Hollow 00:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the fixes to the shadow stepping, but the rest is kinda blah. Also, where's my darned EW revert?--Masato 00:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * GW hasnt seen any buffs lately. Just fucking PvP nerfs.  Jeez izzy turns his head to the "Wastrels Collapse" and other crappy skills.  TBh the only reason i still play GW is because A. i want my chars to look cool, and b. because i look forvawd to updates so new skills come into metagame, different usages occur.  The last time i felt that was was when they buffed WoD.--[[Image:Mister Resetti.jpg|21px]]<font color="black" face="hyborian">GRAARR   / RESETTI  Crossfire  00:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * really guys, the game is old, its amazing how it survived and somehow survives tho competition from other's, it is normal for it to go down now unfortunately. --<font color="Red">Super <font color="Blue"> Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 00:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yea, as they say "what goes up must come down". The CV nerf was useless, the wounding strike build does pretty much the same damage except, you can no longer 3 hit a monk, its officially up to 5. Should have changed the way wounding strike applies its conditions, and a 6 second recharge wouldn't hurt. The Shadow Step aftercast should have been there months ago, oh yes and Can we all stop calling this the "meta". It hasn't changed since the release of nf. prokiller88 02:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

^ Fail. The meta changed just before the new year started, or am I the only one who actually read the Meta-Game pages? So we'll keep calling it the meta because it is. Quit QQing about WS and get a non-fail protect monk.

Also the CV change is just fail, doesn't make a single bit of difference to those who know how to work around skill updates. --Masato 14:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not fail, moving an attribute has its effects. I find it annoying when we see nerfing phases and buffing phases, but the way ANet does their "aggressive" buffs make it necessary to go on nerf sprees. If they want to change things, do some more sprinkling instead of trying to fix things after a hurricane of changes goes through.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB 15:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me spell this out for you
Chilling Victory was never a problem. In fact, it was pretty balanced. It didn't do outlandish amounts of damage, it had a good recharge, and the condition required you use at least a spot of intelligence instead of mindless c-spacing. The problem is requirement-free, energy-based Deep Wound available on the highest damage weapon in the game. If scythes didn't have that, they would be inferior to axes and hammers, because the only thing that keeps them in play is that they deal so much damage that they can afford to pack zero utility. The skills you wanted to nerf were Wounding Strike and Pious Assault.

Also, Signet of Judgment will never be used again, except maybe on the rare assacaster that still goes /Mo instead of /Me. GG? --76.25.197.215 01:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I am fine tbh. Dervish is a poorly designed class anyway. Buffs/nerfs don't really matter. SoJ was over-powered on signet mes bars. -- Readem 02:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Signet mezzes only see play because people can afford to frontload teams. Also, MoI needs to be murdered so the devs can get back to balancing signets around how they are, not around how they would be with two-thirds the recharge. --76.25.197.215 03:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Is every section here gonna have someone whining about WS not getting nerfed? I'm not even gonna bother anymore since no one understands that the skill is balanced and if you don't carry a condition or attack counter or your protect monk doesn't carry one then the lot of you fail.

SoJ is interesting, if not perhaps good and bad. Think I'll gonna look in AB for once and see how many Soj-Asp=Toxic Shock nubs I see. Always interesting to look for players who don't check updates. Maybe this is will get mesmers to play something other than signetway.--Masato 14:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Masato, I see you believe Wounding Strike is balanced because there are counters to it. Do me a favor.  Join a guild, roll up an RC, and try to prot against a team with two WS dervs.  Then come back when you've bottomed out on your high set six minutes into the match and post screens of your team's Morale meter. --76.25.197.215 19:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Already in a guild, faced alot of WS teams and won about 80% of the matches against them. It's quite easy for our protector to keep Guardian or RoF on us while the healer slaps on RC. So if your trying to tell me it needs a nerf then perhaps your team should fail less. Hell half the time we GvG we don't even set up for a possible WS team and when we actually fight one we come out alright.

If your team fails so bad that it can't counter one build then try something else, perhaps run more interupts or Shield Bash(which is nice in it's own right). Have you ever bothered to hit B ingame? I've seen many top GvG teams beat other top GvG teams running WS Dervs, so don't try to tell me it can't be countered. The one match I really remember the red team held the flag stand pretty much the whole time, maintaining 10% morale and only had 1 death. And yes, both these teams were close to enough in the rankings so they knew what they were doing.

You should just stop QQing about WS and get a team that knows what to do against it. I'm not saying run a pure counter build to it 24/7, but if you don't need a certain skill all that much place a counter to it in that spot. WS has been in meta since about 7 months into nightfall and really the only people I hear whining about it are those who either fail at HA or their GvG team can't get their act together.

From that one comment you've pretty much ruined any credit you might have so I see no reason why I should have to prove to you that it can be countered. It's completely clear that you don't have the time to actually put together a serious team and/or slap a counter together. Seriously, just stop QQing and pay attention to the counter builds ran. It's called the Meta Game for a reason. If you can't do that, then stop PvP all together because then you clearly don't know how to do it correctly.--Masato 15:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. Now go do it in HA, where Ws will routinely hit two people at once. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  12:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Above reasons work just as well in HA, just need to make a few minor changes and make sure your team knows what their doing. Of course if your doing HA chances are your whole team is at least r6+ so you already should know what your doing. Besides, most guild groups that do HA have vent or TS so it's basically the same as GvG except that the possible rewards are much greater.--Masato 14:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

My two cents...
I've noticed how each time something gets nerfed or corrected that everyone acts like their puppy got shot. The aftercast to shadow-stepping is a minor inconvenience. It's like what they did to Soul Reaping. Everyone cried foul, and yet, curiously, most necromancers don't really have much in the way of energy problems. Which is strange, because everyone claimed that the Soul Reaping nerf would destroy their Necromancer and rape their children. A .75 second aftercast requires you to use some intelligence, it offers a (tiny) window to evade a shadowstep, and it adds more depth. All it does is require slightly more sophisticated and coordinated tactics, which is a good thing. As for the Chilling Victory and Signet of Judgement nerfs, those confuse me. Really. Wounding strike needs to apply the bleeding first, THEN deepwound. Badda bing, badda bang. Krelus Derian 03:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I too use an Assassin. I find it fair the 3/4 aftercast. The Assassin's shadowstep almost gives no time to the target to prepare him/her self since their combos takes just seconds,unlike a certain profession, to finish. A Mo can cast successfully a Shield of Regeneration, Guardian, A Ranger can activate Throw Dirt, etc. since most Assassin skills that interrupt or knockdown, activates in the second hit and forward. Assassins will not find it impossible but harder to start a combo like, again, a certain profession. Ive always said to my friends that shadowstepping should have been nerf a long, long, long time ago. Depending on the testing and the overall reaction time of players, some builds might see some changing--ShadowFog 05:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

This update was awesome
No, really, it is. Shadowsteps are not broken to the eyeballs anymore, and, with the "still" exception of AoD, no longer murderous on the split. Granted, they are still bloody on a split, but now, responding may actually do something! YAY! Strike that, they are still murderous on a split. On nother note, CV and SoJ nerfs were justified - I've always said SoJ was a tad OP (Guaranteed ranged KD, anyone?) and CV was an attack that routinely hit for 200 damage. Way to go, anet.

Still waiting for:
 * Ursan
 * Paragons
 * Wounding
 * Pious
 * SWAY
 * Fix shadowsteps again.

-- NUKLEAR   IIV  07:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Shadowsteps again? What more could be done beyond removing the mechanic and/or turning it into a speedbuff? Shadowstep ganks are, and always will be hard to deal with because the target of a gank is always vunerable, thus the effectiveness of ganking. 3/4 of a second is not as long as people imagine, it's pratically 1second for all intents and purposes which is great at delaying a spike against human players, but makes no difference against NPCs who continue to be killed by steppers. Furthermore, shadow prison (and it's non elite cousin) STILL may as well be unaffected because they both have slowdown effects on top and the field where they are most disadvantagous (hero battles), 3/4 of a second is meaningless since they are usually used to snare AI NPCs who don't know any better except to do nothing when shadowstepped upon. Shadow stepping is flawed by design, even necro teleportation has difficult requirements to keep it in check by comparison.

Ursan? See my post lower down re~ that. Paragons are fine, they've been nerfed into uselessness as far as GvG goes, but are still imba~ everywhere else (HA, PvE, Sometimes TA/RA). Wounding strike is balanced, deep wound AoE on 3s recharge is TOTALLY fair (was I being sarcastic? you decide!) Pious haste? Are you even serious? A free speed boost is nice and all but it's not much of a big deal until warriors start abusing it. THEN it's imba~ (lulz). SWAY is the new IWAY and will never leave until ANET nerf it and then there will be another "X"WAY so complaining is a exercise in futility since these type of builds never seem to go away.

I answered all your concerns. :P Madda--86.13.248.50 21:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you didn't.
 * Pious Assault, not Pious haste.
 * Paragons do not need a total nerf, because the number of broken skills they have is less than the number of fingers I have. BUt those skills are very much broken, and they need fixing.
 * Go get owned by a sinsplit and then come and say that "shadowsteps are balanced". Aftercast was a shoddy fix that hurt casuals and didn't do zilch to gankers.,
 * You are wrong. Sway Existed for almost 2 years. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  08:49, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Chilling Victory
....a belated r/d sway nerf for the arena weekend?--Shaia 08:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya, seems like it. &mdash;  ク  Eloc  <font color="Black">貢  19:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Kyle van der Meer's Comment
Ah, another entertaining set of comments about the recent minor update. I always enjoy reading the comments on this page after an update. I'll be honest, I don't GvG, I rarely HA, I've done some RA, TA is just plain annoying and nearly on par with AB. Right now I see that glaring, 'Ooohh, one of those PvE nubs'. Well, it's true, I do PvE, however, I don't do it from PvX wiki or some other source of other players builds. I don't know how many of you remember the 'Golden' age of gaming (when there was no online guides on how to cheat your way through something). I don't know how many of you want to remember a time like that! Anywho, the a game used to work, went something like... buy it, play it through maybe once, maybe twice (or copy it off a friend.. highly illegal:P )  Then forget the game. Sure, now we've got this great option, introduce PvP let people make their own story, and tada! Magik! Now people can play forever! I digress. I guess the point of this whole spiel is this: If you've got a good game, don't complain. and GW is good, even if you've played it too much.

Now, one more thing. All you peoples crying for an ursan nerf. Here is what the low level player thinks of Ursan. "I don't like ursan, too boring. I like a bit of a challenge, pretending I can run my own build and whatnot.  I don't use ursan because I came on my two hours a week to play a quick jaunt through FoW with some friends more 'leet' than I, because they run ursan.  Ya, go ahead and nerf ursan, it's Ok with a highly skill weekend gamer.  Don't need that, and I want to see the next round of meta whinning!  (btw, I'm bored at work, and can't really play, but I can post stuff here :D )

--<font size="+1" face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  13:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

People only hate on PVX when their builds get flattened by one from there, and people always try to say that they made "insert build here". And remember nine times out of ten it's some 9-12 year old who isn't even supposed to be on this game. Where's my 13+ rule Anet?

The rest of your comment I honestly don't understand a bit of so I'm leaving it there.--Masato 14:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a bit of clarification; If anyone anywhere is afraid to nerf Ursan Blessing due to the fact that it make casual gamers lose their ability to play tough stuff, then forget that idea. I'm a casual gamer who doesn't use Ursan.  The other part was more of...  Quit complaining about the cookie cutter build nerf, and be more original.  And finally, GW is a good game, if you've played it so long you've forgotten that and are whining about things, go play outside.  Hope that clarifies it a bit better.  (Still bored at work)  [[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png]]<font size="+1" face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  15:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Your own little personal comment section, cute. Ursan, as it is needs a nerf not because it's overpowered but because it is the better option of the 3 Elite blessings. As far as elite skills go, ursan does little except make everyone a earthshaker warrior with a AoE weakness shout. Ursan needs to be brought into line with Raven and Volfen Blessing, nothing more nothing less. As for you being a casual gamer, nobody cares except yourself and your friends. What people DO care about is that GW is supposed to be a game about Skill over Time invested. A newb can be pro in 3hrs, not 3yrs was the foundation GW was supposed to be built upon. That has since changed, and in 3hr the only thing a newb will learn is that using Frenzy and Healing signet at the same time is a bad idea, anything else they learn will purely be accidental. Shame as well since the tutorials in GW are very nicely done too. I, too am a casual gamer, and while I do not NEED titles, with the news that they have an effect on GW2, I feel they are something I should have. Problem? They ALL require grind! This is NOT why I bought GW, and it will NOT be the reason I buy GW2 either. If i want grind, my frozen WoW account can provide me plenty of that! People are angry because GW now isn;t the same game GW 3yrs ago was, and while that is a good thing for many reasons, it's also a bad thing for the reasons i, and some of the developers(on there talk pages) have pointed out. Making a HUGE game with 0 grind is a very, very hard thing to do and GW has gotton close to achieving this but not close enough. The game doesn't feature very many quests and when I quested in the Asura lands, bounties and quests alone took me to R5 Asuran title. Sadly if I had waitied 4 days for the weekend event (double EOTN Faction), I would have achieved what? R9? Maybe even R10(max)? The game should award double the faction all the time(inversely reducing the titles maximum quotas) so that players can quest and achieve SOMETHING, rather than GRIND, and ignore most quests altogether. The fact I have done around 3 quests that aren't primary in Factions is testament to how irrelevent quests are in Factions and that is a lot of time, effort, coding, and money to create content that has largly become redundant to many GW players. And I think that is a real shame! Madda--86.13.248.50 18:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice response, thank-you. Ya, own little comment section, just seemed to fit best.  From just surface skimming discussion hotpoints on this wiki(and other sites) your arguments seem the most logical of any that I've seen.   [[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png]]<font size="+1" face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  23:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thank you Kyle that clears things up.

And I agree on the grind for certain titles, that is something that really should have been addressed ages ago. The last double rep weekend I spent the whole of Vanq'ing Grothmar-Dalada-Sacnoth over and over again for Vanguard rep only to just barely get R9. I'm not really gonna complain though because I got three very nice q9's from Locked Chests in the areas, but still it is an unneeded grind. Maybe make kills worth 8(is that the cap on nm?) points like they do in Nightfall, and 16 in HM. If I'm doing the math right that could cut down the unneeded grind by 35% which would make alot of people happy.

I do find it funny though that people(both ingame and out) compain about the game changing to much. Well all games do that. Note the massive change to City of Heroes and how PSO changed into a hacker paradise within 2 months of it's release into online mode. Games change and if a casual player wants to stay casual then that's fine, there are alot of things to keep em busy. --Masato 15:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Veering off-topic, but rep is easy to get - you can get to 100000 on each with just quick run throughs the 11 main quests and caching books. Running thru the dungeons once in hard mode should gety you virtually to 160k deldrimor, hand in the book and max another title, running thru the 11 main missions, hand in book and you have a 3rd - couple of vanquishes and you're done.  No grind except at the beginning with the normal mode missions (and that takes very little time).Cassie 17:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually all that IS grind. Going through all the HM dungeons over and over for a book is classed as grinding, so the titles are still a grind fest.--Masato 21:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be grind, yes, but I'm talking about going through them *once*. You pick up (or at least, I did) enough dwarf points while you're doing it (plus others from dungeon first-time completion), and then 60k for the book, which takes any rank you want to max. As I said, only grind is the nm quests (and it's short)getting to 100kCassie 21:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Ohai
we anet nd stp plaiing dis gaem tankx--<font color="Black">Fallen (<font color="Blue">talk ) 03:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Fail, and not even close to a somewhat good fail actually.--Masato 15:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Fact.
Worst update ever. <font color="Deeppink">Brandnew. 13:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fact. You are so wrong. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:08, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

yes stupid update, they forgot shadow fang, o wait thats never used anywahere wiht a 45 sec cooldown! Shadowshock 16:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't like updates that nerf GvG NPCs. Using wards, spirits and chants to make them stronger was making GvG more tactical. Now NPCs are just a meatshield that doesn't really matter...83.20.118.170 16:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Missed One
Beguiling Haze, less used but no aftercast now


 * Probably not missed, that has no snare, so it can be kited at least, plus it burns an elite slot. Shadow Fang has a long recharge and that one still has no aftercast.  They just made it so that there isn't as much benefit with the steps that can be frequently used while compressing bars. Shadow Walk is still good for sycthes since they do so much dmg on their own without skills, and maybe a palm strike build to deal with the 1 second disable. Btw sign comments plz.<font color="#C71585" size="2px">~>Sins <font color="#CA1F7B" size="2px"> WDB [[Image:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png]] 15:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Anyone got any Elite Skills they'd like to see buffed this coming update??
As the title Says. Are there any Elite skills that people would like to see BUFFED in the next update? (No QQing, please) and if you want, you can post suggestions for those elite skills you want to see changed. Basically a public version of the Skill Feedback page. Nothing overpowered, and try to be practical, please. I'll give you an example!!


 * Word of Censure

10en. 1cast. 3rec.

"Target Foes takes 15...45...60 holy damage. if that foe is above 33% health, that foes takes an additional 10..22...30 (untyped) damage. If that foe was or is injured beyond 33%,Word of Censure takes an additional 7 seconds to recharge, and you gain 7 energy."

Sexy No? Now you try. Phill Gaston 02:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got one.


 * Expel Hexes

same stats
 * Remove 2 hexes from target ally. You gain 2...5...7 energy for each hex removed. Tie to inspiration.
 * Meh. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  02:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Volven and Raven maybe? in line with Ursa, so that there would be less complaints about Ursan... always keeping them PvE
 * Sure, a game can never have too much ursan... -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  09:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Quick Shot cast time to 1/2 or 3/4 would be nice, then i'm sure i could use it on my ranger ^-^ -  B y  a  k  k  o   12:27, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The three 'omglulz u suk' mind skills need an epic boost. My suggestion? Remove exaustion on all three! The power creep from NF-on has made it so these would've-been overpowered skills are basically on par with society if the exaustion simply... vanished. But, if someone still thinks they'd be imba without exhaustion, I guess slashing off a few numbers of the damage done/conditional effects wouldn't hurt too bad. Silavor 11:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think just removing the exhaustion would make them TOO good. These things can't be mindlessly spammable with their current power, whenever I get smacked with one in PvE it's a major OW! Krelus Derian 17:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they should buff Ursan just for comedy value. -- Salome [[Image:User_salome_sig.png|19px]] 14:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Like how? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:16, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would actually pay money for them to make Ursan a PvP-usable skill and just revert it when people realize what happened. Mmm, chaos. Fracking hate that skill, although it'd be interesting to see if someone could come up with a viable counter. Krelus Derian 15:35, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Easy. Cripshot. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  16:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Cripshot, E-Drain, Sig of Humility etc... All the stuff that is currently played would work most of the time.--Masato 16:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

All the useless crap in Communing for the Ritualist, especially a re-work of almost all the skills, tell Izzy to get off his lazy ass and stop making skills useless, if you dont want it in the first place, just take the dang skill out of the game. Jeez, When I first started GW:Factions with the Rt, I was in awe with the communing skills...not in a good way--ShadowFog 19:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

shroud of silence, its shit now, wtb revert.74.186.169.130 20:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Evaluate Please ^_^--<font color="black" face="hyborian">GRAARR  / RESETTI  Crossfire  04:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If you want ideas for underpowered elites, there are tons on these pages. There are ones which have been hit by the nerf bat, but too far (e.g. LoD, HEV et c.), ones which were never really good in the first place (e.g. Cleave, Quivering Blade, ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Assassin/Seeping Wound and so on), as well as many of the aformentioned skills like ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Elementalist/Mind Burn.

'Respectfully' asking for you to be quiet now
I'm sick of seeing all these ursan comments. It's a well known fact that ANET staff reads and reviews player comments from here and (insert your favorite crybaby-forum.com) on a frequent basis. You've been complaining about ursan since EOTN came out however many MONTHS ago. THEY KNOW. THEY KNOW!! And look, they're even posting about possible changes (read: 'nerfs' by said complainers). What does that mean? It means THEY KNOW YOU HATE IT. Maybe it's just me but i find these ursan-bashers extremely obnoxious at this point. It was fine for a while, now it's just obnoxious. You have no reason to continue complaining because, without a shadow of a doubt, ANET has heard every possible complaint under the sun about the poor skill. If you continue it's probly because you're upset that ursan "is ruining the game" (lol no it isn't?) and the people who use it are 'noobs' who don't know how to play and can't form their own bars (because anyone who made it to DoA is that much of a newb rite?). On that note, if you haven't already, why not go actually try forming/completing an ursan run? You can't just pick up the skill and go "yay OP farmin". You need to heighten the ursan title track, you need enough wealth to supply your own consumable set, and you need a skilled monk, you need to know how the area works and functions, you need to know the enemies, etc. (this is what i observed for DoA, anyway).

Personally, i'm not against or for the skill; It makes things like DoA much simpler than other team builds (bad?), but it's a unique skill and kindof fun along with Raven and Wolf (cool skills are always good). I'm against the whining, obnoxious griefers who know nothing else than to stare at whatever part of this game isn't right to them, and snivel about it with tears running down their cheeks.

Basically, you are free to find the next skill you want to shoot down to the ground, Ursan's "OP UNFAIRNESS" has been noticed by ANET and is being looked at. Now be quiet. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.193.113.198 (talk).
 * Meh, I'm happy with the complains. It's good to see there are still players who care about the well being of the game, even if at first it feels like they're not being listened to. Ursan is a classic example of how good, constructive criticism is heard by Arena Net and then used to improve the game : ) Erasculio 20:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We have yet to see if the criticism is heard and used. Other than that, I agree with you, Erasculio.  --Srakin 18:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, this whole issue is a classic example of how to NOT manage the relation between a community and the developers. I am fine with Anet if they want to nerf skills into oblivion because they don't meet the standards for their own game, but changing things just because "Sir Whine-a-lot" asked to has proven to be a bad practice in other games (tm) already. Give players a cookie, and they will ask for a cake next time, and for a Ferrari the time after that.
 * Rant aside, i agree with anon actually. Anet acknoledged the problem, and gave a time limit for their response. Maybe we could stop complaining now and start again if by September they have still done nothing?.--Fighterdoken 18:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * GuildWars now contradicts itself in so many aspects that not a single clean solution can emerge to solve whatever problem is known. My eyes are now on GW2. I fear the worst. Yseron - 90.48.135.223 18:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Almost a month and no update? ^^
wtfmate^^
 * Updates come monthly. &mdash;  Skakid  03:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I was just recently sentenced to 32 years in prison. I was then taken in the showers (by some bigger, stronger men); at which point I contracted HIV and HEP A. The moral of this story? Where are my reward points Anet. I rlly need, -- Readem
 * Readem should've known not to drop the soap. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  09:07, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

From when I started playing, thy used to be every week and a half-ish, between wed. and Saturday. not its only Thursdays, and every two weeks. An update every month really wouldn't be a good trend. &#91;&#91;User:Phill Gaston&#124;Phill Gaston&#93;&#93;‎ 12:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I rather liked the frequent updates D: They gave me a reason to keep playing as new skills were buffed. --Srakin 21:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guesses anyone? just watch out for the 600/smite nerf bat XD...[[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png|15px]]<font size="+1" face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  13:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guesses? Ursan will be nerfed, one zillion skills will be buffed...And instead of trying one of those newly buffed skills, a large number of players are going to continue to use Ursan, whining at how it has been made weaker, and complaining that the buffed skills were skills that no one else ever used (...which incidentally is the reason why they're getting buffed in the first place). Erasculio 13:24, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My farsight indicates that the incoming "change" to ursan will be... insignificant. Not enough. not nearly enough. ANet will keep it broken, that I can foretell. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Since Julien Crevits, we will have an update this night : (in French) => Ursan, pain inverter and a lot of PvE skills will be nerfed ... (and sorry for my english ^^) --90.14.211.130 18:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * EDIT : The new zchest tonic : (French version, english version does no exist) --90.14.211.130 18:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The new tonic looks ugly, not as bad as the norn one but still close. Guess my z key stacks will just sit in storage for another month.--Masato 19:56, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you mad? Spiders are Sexy. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 20:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)