ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Warrior/Shield Bash

Mordax Praetorian's Issue -- 01:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
1. Getting a block, knockdown, and skill disable is too powerful for no attribute investment.
 * Issue

2. This skill is never used by primary warriors, despite being in its primary attribute line.

3. When used, this skill provides a faultless counter to many builds, many of them in the profession meant to be using this skill.

4. The skill is non-punishable, it is instant and thus non-interruptable, it is a skill and thus may not be removed, or prevented.

5. Although this skill is important to the current meta, as it stops Hammer Warriors and Assassins from being too powerful, it does not promote fun, interesting, or intelligent gameplay, and it is too good at its job in TA, Hammer Warriors and Assassins have become scarce. Any combination of the following:
 * Suggestion

1. Keep its function and costs as are, but make it an elite.

--Balthazar's Pendulum etc are Elites simply because they counter a melee attack, and cause knock down. Making this skill an Elite also would offset it properly against those skills. Although this skill does more, it has the extra cost that you must be /W to use it. This does not however address its usefulness to Primary Warriors.

2. Reduce Duration to 1..8..10 or similar.

--This means that it can still be used by other professions, but the timing on it is a lot harsher, so a caster must have more intelligence to use the skill properly. This does not however address its usefulness to Primary Warriors.

3. Make it a Stance.

--This would open up some way to counter the skill, for example using Wild Blow, and thus lead to more intelligent and interesting gameplay. This does not however address its usefulness to Primary Warriors.

4. Give it 50% Failure Chance unless Strength 4 or Greater.

--Imo, this would still be a good skill for casters without attribute investment, however it would stop it from being so absolute as it is now. This does not however address its usefulness to Primary Warriors.

5. Remove the disable.

--This part simply isn't needed. This does not however address its usefulness to Primary Warriors.

6. Change cast time to 3/4, and make it a Touch Skill with the following functionality: "Interrupts a Spell or Chant, interrupt affect: causes 10..22..25 damage and inflicts Daze 2..3..3 seconds, fails if you are not wielding a shield." or something to that affect.

--This creates a useful skill for Primary Warriors, probably a bit too powerful in the implementation given above, but I think you see where I'm trying to go with it, its a different interpretation of the flavour. This also makes it not useful when Warrior is the secondary profession, now it is as a skill in a primary attribute line should be. However if you pick this solution, you may wish to tweak other skills to replace it, as Assassins and Hammer Warriors may become too powerful. Perhaps give Balthazar's Pendulum some sort of healing affect to make it more attractive.

7. Change the cast time to 1s and make it an attack with the following functionality: "If you are wielding a Shield you deal 10..48..50 Damage".

--This interpretation gives it the feel of a quick and dirty attack, that is unlinked to the weapon the user is wielding. Its useful because it can be used to cancel attack cooldowns in much the same way that Mystic Sweep and Ermite's Attack are used, but the long recharge time stops it from being broken. Probably not powerful enough in that specific implimentation. But again, consider tweaking something like Balthazar's Pendulum to make up for the loss of a key Anti-Hammer/Anti-Assassin skill.


 * I wholeheartedly support this motion, especially when going for point 2: Make it 0 or 1 second with no investment in Strength. --62.158.103.249 19:54, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

"No Attribute" is BAD FOR THE GAME!

 * Issue
 * "No Attribute" skill disable.


 * Solution
 * Reward attribute investment by linking the disable time to the Strength attribute. Reduce both recharge and duration of skill effect, making it a more active skill. Lower disable time greatly to compensate for decreased recharge, and completely eliminate disable time without attribute investment.


 * Suggestion
 * 5e 12r "Skill. For 4 seconds, if you are wielding a shield, the next attack skill against you is blocked. If it was a melee attack, the foe making the attack is knocked down and that skill is disabled for an additional 0...6...7 seconds."
 * Addition to my suggestion- If it was a scythe attack, it is disabled for an additional 20 seconds(counter to sway)

"No Attribute" I fully agree!!

 * Issue
 * This skill is essentially UNLINKED and extremely overpowered on casters.


 * Solution
 * Link it PROPERLY to Strength, even the knockdown the above user suggested would be OP since it stops spikes for a SECONDARY with ZERO strength. Thats just a no-go, and currently, because of this single skill (and WoH) we have a fucked up totally boring blocking-got-out-of-hand-meta with all monks running one and the same build.


 * Suggestion
 * 5e, 15r "Skill. For 0...3..4 seconds, if you are wielding a shield, the next attack skill against you is blocked. If it was a melee attack, the foe making the attack is knocked down and that skill is disabled for an additional 0...5..6 seconds."

This just made me die a little inside
(copied issue and solution from user above since his suggestions are fitting)
 * Issue
 * This skill is essentially UNLINKED and extremely overpowered on casters. I found the following in the article "Knock Down" on Wiki:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3407/sbashjc2.png I was laughing when reading that, but I died a little inside at the same time. This really shows how this skill is so much abused by casterclasses, and that makes me mad. I quote: "Shield Bash knocks down a foe the next time the caster is attacked with a melee skill." You don't cast a skill, you only cast spells. Unless caster was meant here as a person, which would fit so perfectly - shield bash is run on 1 of 1000 warrior bars, but 999 of 1000 monk bars, it NEEDS TO BE FIXED!


 * Solution
 * Link it PROPERLY to Strength, even the knockdown the above user suggested would be OP since it stops spikes for a SECONDARY with ZERO strength. Thats just a no-go, and currently, because of this single skill (and WoH) we have a fucked up totally boring blocking-got-out-of-hand-meta with all monks running one and the same build.


 * Suggestion
 * 5e, 15r "Skill. For 0...3..4 seconds, if you are wielding a shield, the next attack skill against you is blocked. If it was a melee attack, the foe making the attack is knocked down and that skill is disabled for an additional 0...5..6 seconds."

Offensive Rework

 * Issue
 * As mentioned above, this is used much more on monks, and sometimes other casters, than on warriors, because it's a highly defensive skill which a warrior doesn't really need (80 armour plus extra vs. physical is already good defense against other warriors) but which monks love.


 * Suggestion
 * I would rework this skill so that while its use is broadly the same, it is an offensive skill which requires more action and slightly better timing.
 * . 5 3⁄4  20
 * Skill. Target touched foe takes blunt damage and is interrupted. If that foe was attacking, they are knocked down, and any attack skill they were using is disabled for an additional  seconds. This skill can only be used while wielding a shield.
 * Here, the skill could still be used to knock down attacking foes, and now does some damage to boot, but doesn't get quite as long a disable as before, especially with no Strength. Since it now has an activation time, it's also interruptable and means you can't use it while casting or using other skills, though a 3⁄4 cast means that most of the time interrupts shouldn't be too much of a problem. Furthermore, you can't kite while using it.
 * Since it's a bit more active, however, it can also be used better by primary warriors. It still requires a foe to be attacking you, but since you know exactly when it will hit, it's easier to follow up with an attack like Steelfang Slash, for example, which benefits from knockdowns. Admittedly this is too conditional for general use, but might work as a secondary knockdown, perhaps in conjunction with Shock or Bull's Strike (using this in the other's downtime perhaps). The added damage also makes it more attractive.
 * An alternative would be for it to cause a non-conditional KD, or have an easier condition to fulfil (such as any skill being used). However, this might need more rebalancing as it could get much too powerful, and this suggestion is meant mostly as a nerf, after all.
 * This suggestion sounds either underpowered (duration too long) or like a new disarm in the making (duration too short). -Woopdeedoo 05:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

~Enar.  hello.  Issue.

 * Issue
 * Another warrior skill what is overused by other professions.

 Skill. (5...10...11 seconds.) You block the next attack skill. Causes knock-down and +15 second recharge if it was a melee skill. No effect unless you are wielding a shield. 50% failure chance unless Strength is 1 or more.
 * Suggestion

OR

Skill. (5...10...11 seconds.) You block the next attack skill. Causes knock-down and +15 second recharge if it was a melee skill. No effect unless you are wielding a shield. You move 75% slower.

To be honest it would make sense if you block yourself with shield then you move slower.  ~Enar.   hello.  12:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)