User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Ranger/Archive 1

This skill isnt really worth it on any bar atm. I was thinking, as it has half range it could inflict deep wound. Of cource it would need to be changed. say 15E, 15R cause deep wound for 5-12 seconds or somthing. Removeing plus damage might help too. The whole reason ranger do not have deep wound is because it would be overpowerd at the range so this half range attack is perfect for it imo.--Diddy Bow 10:52, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "Bow Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +10...22...25 damage. If target foe is in the area, you do an additional 10...22...25 damage." Even though it still suffers from what all other bow attacks suffer from, would make this skill slightly better. --Deathwing 11:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A suggestion I made a little while ago would be giving this and Zojun's Shot a condition... Deep Wound's a good idea, but I was thinking Cracked Armor (if only for a very short duration). Gives Rangers the ability to actually use Body Shot, and possibly Piercing Trap, if the duration's long enough/you hit the foe close enough to the trap. One thing I like about Rangers giving out CrAr is the ability for a Ranger to deal good damage against a Warrior or Paragon... the half-range ability forces th Ranger to be in Spear range, and rather close to melee range, which also makes for some nice synergy (you've got to take some damage to deal some damage). Maybe make these skills a bit more expensive in that case, raise the recharge to about the same as the CrAr duration... a 15e, 12r attack that gives out 12 seconds of CrAr will still see some use IMO. (the high energy cost is justified by both Body Shot and Prepared Shot being around to help out with e-management.) -- Jioruji Derako.> 09:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh, goes against the whole goal of having classes that benefit from CA not being able to apply it. Plus, ranger's don't need help against warriors. Cripple and Poison them. --Deathwing 09:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that this skill and Zojun's Shot are what's keeping (and will continue to keep) Power Shot useless. Buffing Power Shot sufficiently would make it more powerful than these, which would require buffing Point Blank/Zojun's even more to maintain the illusion of balance between a full-range skill (Power Shot) and half-ranged skills like these. Since I doubt the devs want to do all that buffing, these will probably just languish (like so many other bow skills...) Arshay Duskbrow 20:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * How about adding 'If that foe is attacking, that foe is interrupted'? Then those 2 skills would give you some kind of anti-warrior defense. If a warrior is on you, spam this in his face to interrupt some of his attacks. But it doesn't become a short recharge interrupt for general purpose since it only interrupts attacks, not anything else. Would make them much more interesting. Could even lower the +damage a bit to +5..20d Patccmoi 15:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I like all non-generic skills with fun effects and drawbacks, so yea, I'll support that interrupt-attack idea :) Servant of Kali 17:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Makes sense flavor-wise too, with that. If someone looses an arrow right in my face, I'm going to stop my attack and duck or flinch... it's not a very powerful effect, but it's a hell of a lot more useful then a half-ranged Power Shot. -- Jioruji Derako.> 16:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Point Blank Shot/Zojun's Shot: decreased Energy cost to 5; increased damage to 10..40.

Gee, these are now kind of potent, and Power Shot looks worse than ever... Arshay Duskbrow 01:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Kind of disappointed at the change though.
 * If it's weak ->Halve cost, recharge, cast or double the effect
 * If it's strong -> Double cost, recharge, cast, or halve the effect.
 * This skill is still just another bow damage attack. Nothing else, and due to that, will still rarely see use. --Deathwing 01:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Might be useful as a spike now... not sure how the damage stacks up to others, but it's a good chunk as-is. Not to mention it's cheaper. Also a good way to get earshot for Screaming. I'm happy enough that it's better now. -- Jioruji Derako.> 19:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * With a Flatbow and RtW/FW and a 33% IAS, if you have both skills on your bar, you can really destroy a target through DPS. Try a ranger with PBS-ZS-RtW-Punishing-DShot-Flail/Lightning Reflexes-Natural Stride. It's pretty crazy pressure with lots of interrupting power. Give Brutal Weapon to that guy and he's constantly sniping someone for over 100 damage a shot (actually if you have Brutal you might want Quickshot for elite. It can greatly raise your DPS, and you won't run out of energy fast with PBS/ZS down to 5E if you have over 13 Exp, which you should). The DPS can be far ahead of a warrior, trading the ability to knock and DW for very reliable and powerful interrupts. Honestly, it might allow for a Marksman Ranger meant to be used midfight to be viable, bringing a mix of strong DPS + strong interrupts. It's not a replacement to a BA Ranger, who is much more powerful in splits, but both can actually work very well together bringing LOTS of interrupts around without actually sacrificing much damage. I mean hell, this thing is about the same damage as using Exec Strike on an Axe every single swing. You lose the AP from Strength and 1-2 points in your weapon attribute likely, but your average damage is higher and while you hit a bit slower you hit from range so you don't have lower DPS cause of kiting and you can ignore Ward vs Melee. And if a BSurge sits on you, you can sit on him =p Patccmoi 19:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I already created a promising escape ganker for these skills. Will probably see some use. Readem   Sorry, I'll stop trolling now.  07:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sloth Hunter's Shot makes a nice addition to a build with these... that regularly hits for over 100dmg as well. Point Blank Shot works nicely from higher up, as well; half of a shitload of range is still half a shitload. (forgive my language there.) Don't forget the bonus damage from higher then the target.
 * On a related note, shouldn't we be archiving this discussion? People might get the wrong idea, seeing this skill still here. -- Jioruji Derako.> 08:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill is the most utterly useless skill in existance, can anyone tell me a good skillbar to use this with?
 * No such thing as a good skillbar for this skill... if the metagame is heavy on Elementalists using exhausting spells, it could possibly take over your Elite slot, but it's never going to help you alone, so there's no way to build around it. (some crazy spirit-spammer ranger using every negative spirit they can could use this possibly, but that's just a for-fun build, nothing more.)
 * I can't possibly think of a way to buff this, on that note... it's not worthy of Elite status as-is, I don't think. Not sure what it would take to make it Elite-worthy, though... (whenever a player uses a spell that causes exhaustion, that spell causes TEN times the exhaustion instead. Bam, that'll stop eles from casting Meteor Shower.) -- Jioruji Derako.> 09:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

lol i like that idea (Words can heal 10:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC))
 * How about "Create a level 1...8 Spirit. All Spells that cost over 10 energy cause Exhaustion and Spells that normally cause Exhaustion cause double. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds." That will put a hurting on a lot of builds. --Deathwing 10:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Might be a bit overdoing it at that level, but I like the idea... make it add on exhaustion to 15e spells and upwards, so it doesn't pwn everything that casts spells, though. Still going to give a few 'Sins exhaustion from Beguiling Haze and so on, but at least it's a bit more forgiving.
 * You know what, simply making spells cost a bit more might work too. Sort of like QZ, but without that nice little half-recharge ability... people would start stacking those two spirits, then. This just needs to put a tiny bit of hurt on spellcasters, though. As it is, it only works on Eles, and not very well at that.
 * ...ooh, one more idea; give all players within range -1 energy regeneration, to a minimum of 3. anyone with less then 4 pips of regen wouldn't be affected, but casters get downgraded a level. Won't have any effect on Monks with a bunch of enchantments going, but if you wanted to deal some hurt to them, you'd bring a different spirit now wouldn't you? -- Jioruji Derako.> 10:44, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "All spells that cost over 10 energy" Which is 15+ :P Would hurt SoR, SF, Reckless Haste, Blurred Vision, and Aegis to name a few. Would make it pretty high priority to kill, but it is an elite spirit, it should be high priority. Not sure about the -1 energy regen, too much like Quicksand. And like you said, costs would be too much like QZ. Could make it the elite version of QZ though. Same description, except only non-spell skills have half recharge. --Deathwing 10:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally i think it's ok as is. It's a niche skill, but it could control some builds if any came out relying on exhaustion. Changing it to 'skill' instead of 'spells' might help it a bit, since it would then count Shock which is likely the most used exhaustion skill atm. And you CAN build around it, with Arcane Languor. A build using a mix of Arcane Languor, Equinox and Exhausting Assault would be interesting, but not sure you can make a solid build with split ability out of it, and building up exhaustion is pointless in HA where you need to kill fast, not in 2 minutes. Patccmoi 15:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh, goes against the whole goal of having classes that benefit from CA not being able to apply it. Plus, ranger's don't need help against warriors. Cripple and Poison them. Wrong tab ftw? --Deathwing 09:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i like the ideas you're posting... "...all spells that cost more than 10 energy and every third spell cast somewhere over the world cause exhaustion. Skills that would normally cause exhaustion cause double the exhaustion instead." xD no, honestly, i like the idea. just one question some questions: GoLE? does it count as lowering cost? do we wanna destroy the meta? do we wanna make 5e spammers commmon in gvg? - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 00:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Could spam 10e skills too. Spirits are killable though, so it's not a total 15e+ shutdown. Was just throwing out an idea that might make it see use. Would punish people for using strong spells, kind of makes sense I guess. Destroy the meta? How? Not enough 15 energy spells being used to totally destroy it. I don't know : / you win. --Deathwing 00:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What about making it target spells UNDER 10 energy and spells that cause exhaustion instead of expensive spells only? I mean most people run cheap spells to avoid problems with energy. spirits are meant to shake that up, so let it go crazy and add an extra cost to cheap spells. obsidian flame would be screwed costing you a whopping 15-20 energy worth of exhaustion, but imagine if Discord suddenly cost exhaustion? or stone daggers? imagine having to tell your assassins to run skills over 5 energy. They'd flip out (and kill people) --T-Lo 21:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * owns heroway with langour =) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Skakid9090 . 21:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i'm mostly referring to current preferred ele builds in RA. that fix would also kick all zb/aegis monks and instead bring up more bonders. i'd still like it that way, though. - Just_m3 [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 21:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

How about this: ''Spells that normally cause exhaustion, cause double exhaustion. Whenever a creature uses an elite skill, that skill causes exhaustion if that creature was enchanted.''--Skye Marin 14:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * would pwn in pve. :) - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt_sig.jpg|16px]] 16:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC)