User talk:Bathory/Suggestions/Ranger


 * Too weak still. 3 health degeneration=6dps. This would just make Lacerate on par with Toxicity. 50 damage every 15 seconds with a 3 second cast is less than 3dps per player. Even if you managed to get bleeding on 8 foes, that is simply 22dps (+48dps from team-wide extra degen). Worse is the fact that it is a lot harder to spread bleeding than poison, because Apply Poison is superior in every way to the preparation that causes bleeding (can't remember its name). Then, its also still inferior to Toxicity because it is elite, and toxicity isn't. Anyway, neither of these skills are really that useful, because they cause mediocre team-wide damage relying on conditions, which makes them very susceptible to RC (which gets rid of their effect and heals any damage incurred).Crimmastermind 08:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Barbed Arrows. And it's true - I think they just wanted Rangers to focus on Poison and not Bleeding which is why this skill and Barbed are so weak. But at least with this change the skill would be less redundant - now all it does is reapply a weak condition anyway. I doubt it would be the main damage giver in any group but it'd still be slightly better off, don't you think? Bathory 06:41, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How about applying Deep Wound and/or Crippled in addition to '50 damage every 15 seconds' to bleeding creatures? ^_^ --Falconeye 18:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Both of those conditions are very powerful (depending where you are, some places Crippled is kinda silly) so I think it'd be a bad idea to have those so frivolously spread around based only on a Bleeding prerequisite. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  18:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice idea, but I think its kinda random, because it hinders rangers more than it helps (because rangers have the slowest attack speed out of every profession, which results in everyone healing more than rangers). Meh, 5hp per hit isnt that much anyway (until you start spamming barrage).Crimmastermind 09:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I took it from Predatory Season, but it's still more than what a Ranger gets from double adrenaline gain. Or maybe it would be better without the +5 Health and using the -20% healing function? I think that would fit along with the skill's "theme" in a way. Bathory 06:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * How does nerfing the skill make it more attractive? Vili &gt;8&lt; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 07:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The 8 second recharge is to stay consistent with the suggestion I made to Savage Shot. It would be better by not sacrificing damage - but in my opinion a 5 second recharge on an interrupt shot should only be something an elite interrupt should get, as Punishing Shot and Magebane Shot already have but are usually looked over in place of Savage Shot and a free elite slot. xP I suppose this suggestion would overall be a nerf but I'd rather stay consistent and logical. I guess that really doesn't help this skill, you're right. Bathory 06:35, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not a popular skill, but it does get used every once in a while... one of those niche, unexpected tricks that no one prepares for. I'm not sure if it should be changed at all, or at least not in that way - if it gave normal damage, people might start taking it to throw at random, the way they do with Savage or Magebane. Even using Marksman's Wager, Concussion Shot is not really used on recharge...if you actually manage to daze multiple people, that's a great reward for incredible luck/good interrupt reflexes. Meh. Vili &gt;8&lt; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 12:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't see anyone bringing a 25 energy skill to just throw around. I understand where you're coming from - but I still don't think non-elite Ranger interrupts deserve a 5 second recharge. Is there some other way you think it could be changed in order to keep the suggestion at 8 seconds? I figured normal damage would be enough, since the Dazed condition is very long and someone who is timing their interrupts well wouldn't even notice the extra 3 seconds... Bathory 20:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * 10 energy and 10 second recharge for only 11 damage and 24 AoE damage is not worth it.72.71.218.222 03:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd bring this skill with you now, then? If you're going to say mine is bad - at least try to come up with some way to improve it? Bathory 06:44, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * +5...15...17 damage and unconditional 10...34...40 to all adjacent foes.96.233.2.149 01:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the damage on that, but the recharge should probably stay at 10. Skills like this are a bit spike-y, and low recharges on them would speed up R-Spike speeds as well has giving them some AoE. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  18:47, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It would be underpowered compared to Apply Poison. One second of burning is 14 health loss. The shortbow and flatbow, the two fastest bows, fire once per 2 seconds, so one second of buring per hit would add 7 DPS if every attack hits. Assuming a 100% hit rate, Apply Poison adds 8 DPS to a single target, even at 0 Wilderness Survival, and with a decent investment in Wildnerness Survival, the poison can be sustained on multiple targets, allowing sustainable multi-target pressure. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, most preparations/+nature rituals pale compared to Apply Poison, but I kinda think its too weak. If you increased it to 2 seconds, it'd be too strong though (maintain burning on a foe with auto-attack definitely not balanced). Maybe get rid of the -40 armor.Crimmastermind 08:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The -40 armor may be a bit much. I just figured that since Apply Poison is supposed to be the strongest Preparation and this one would inflict a more powerful condition that it should have it, like Barbed Arrows has the lowered armor clause. And since this is a complete function change, it should probably start off weak and then be balanced from there. If it was done the other way around it'd be a lot more damaging. Bathory 20:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Something like - 'Your arrows inflict rning]] condition ( seconds). No effect unless you're wielding a fire weapon. Does not affect spirits - is plenty deadly, needing either a fire-mod or Greater Conflagration. If 2 seconds is too much (it'll kill spirits -very fast-) then why not add +% burning duration to GC? The 'you have -40 armor when activating this skill' clause is indeed overkill (once tried it with Binding Rituals). --Falconeye 18:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still, I just like keeping things consistent. Barbed Arrows is supposed to stay inferior to Apply Poison. That's what the -40 armor is for. Maybe it would be fine for the 2 seconds of burning, and a longer duration but I would really prefer to keep the -40 armor just to keep it with the other skills like it. Also, I don't think they could make this not work when targeting Spirits... [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  18:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Personally, I wouldn't take your skill change. I mean, its a pretty good skill, but in PvP I think that IMS is more important than +25% block and +24 armor versus elemental damage. Rangers already have high enough elemental damage, and personally, I don't really think that 24 armor does that much (like 1-2dmg per attack). In PvE, the form right now is around the same usefulness, because it gives you a limited duration of invulnerability (srsly, standing in firestorms deals like 3dps). However, the no hexes/enchantments kinda sucks for PvE, because Heroes/Henchies spam enchants like mad, limiting this skill's usefulness. Anyway, there would be better skills for pure survival (Lightning Reflexes, because it also has +IAS; Whirling Defenses because it lasts longer and causes damage). I wouldn't take a +24 armor for the fact that Hexes and Enchants ends it.Crimmastermind 07:59, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true about the +Ele Armor, and I guess it's true about the Henchman casting enchants (I usually only get a Healing Breeze every once in a while when I PvE from them, but I'm usually on a caster class so I suppose that could be the difference). I think I've said it before - but I usually think in terms of PvP, and mostly at the level of the lesser arenas since 4v4 is my favorite type of PvP. With this I was thinking it more on X/R because the +Ele armor that comes with this skill is redundant list you said - but it's no where near Whirling Defense's usefulness that deserves the 60 recharge. I'm not a ranger person though, so I suppose that this change could not really change it's usefulness at all... Would it be a better suggestion with just a shorter recharge you think?Bathory 06:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you have a point. I was only really thinking of this skill from a Ranger primary perspective, I suppose its pretty decent on a ranger secondary. I think that 10 second recharge would probably be still balanced, because most casters enchant themselves (Eles use attunements etc), and 10 second recharge on rangers wouldn't be supremely OP.Crimmastermind 20:45, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe, I doubt anyone would have high Wilderness just for this but giving it a better recharge seems a little presumptuous to me. Also, if you activate this while or about to cast an enchantment I don't think the extra 2 seconds is going to kill you and it is your fault you lost it... Not like a monk ran up and cast Patient Spirit on you or something. (Which I do to Rangers using NS all the time. >=D) [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  18:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, imagine that with Apply. It would basically be a 2 skill bar that completely removes all condition removal except for RC, and spamming RC isn't good for a monk's energy. Maybe a bit too powerful, because if alternated with Savage it can basically poison an entire team in 10 seconds.Crimmastermind 07:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are you spamming RC to get rid of poison? And you could already do that with the skill in its current state. I'd imagine there's a reason you don't see that happening. 128.255.216.144 21:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the reason people don't do that now is because its blockable. Since its blockable, its usefulness isn't that high, because it has no bonus damage, which means that you cant just stack +dmg skills. With unblockable, you can just shove in as much +dmg stuff as you want and since it moves so fast it cannot be avoided, and since its unblockable it bypasses most non-monk defense. Oh, and I was meaning that to remove conditions that Poison would cover monks would have to spam RC, because no condition removal recharges fast enough to remove the poison then the deep wound/dazed etc before a 1 second recharge, 1 second activation and like 1/4 second flight time skill reapplies the poison.Crimmastermind 07:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Foul Feast is better for condition removal in most cases, especially when it's just Poison. This would still eat up your elite slot - so I still don't think it would be that popular compared to other elites. Burning Arrow in most areas of PvP would overshadow this without even trying. Magebane and Melandru's would be much more powerful in 4v4 arenas and in PvE you're probably running Barrage or Incendiary so you can hurt multiple targets. I'm not a ranger person though, but I still don't think that someone running an unblockable, fast no +damage elite would bother me anywhere too much - but it could still be worth it against foes that love blocking (RA monks?) Bathory 20:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)