Talk:Game updates/20080807

Delayed? No way! I was hoping this would be the update that would make me come back D: Ah well, guess I can go to bed now. BlazeRick 23:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

- its a joke someones spamming the edit button --Robot 23:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

we have about 25 min to wait before we acutully will see 66.233.201.54 23:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC) before 5


 * It's alive!, MWAHAHA! 700kb the first load, then another 250kb with -image. Let the fun begin.--Fighterdoken 23:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Bah, this is just a bunch of tiny fixes and changes, no real new content at all here. The one good thing that came out of this is I don't have to hear the Ursan Haters Bawwing over it anymore, just a bunch of "LOL YES FINALLY FOR THE WIN YAY DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" for a while. I'm disappointed.
 * On a side note * Unyielding Aura: decreased casting time to .25 seconds; decreased recharge time 10 seconds. Functionality changed to: "Your Monk spells heal for +15..60% End effect: a random ally is resurrected and teleported to your location." What? My Wammo leash is gone! Noooo Amantis 00:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

FINALLY!!!!!
IT HAS FINALLY COME! URSAN NERF FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.121.168.43 (talk).

ursan has been nerfed. hah bitches 67.185.158.178 00:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Give it a week, All HM runs via Ursanway have been completely after the change with only 10-30 additional minutes taken. I know for a fact that DoA HM ursanway is still possible after doing it with an alliance group for testing the changes. It's truth and some fansites even have pictures. After the week the builds will have been found out by the community and posted all over again. Though I've always been for a change to the skill, it wasn't enough. (Limiting 3 Ursan active at once with the new charge would have been perfect) It is funny to see all the people in DoA overpricing their gemsets though, think though I'll keep my armbraces atm.

Still wondering how those UW speedruns will work, if at all now. I havn't heard anything on them yet.--Masato 02:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

it will still work only slower and you will actualy have a slim chance of dying while under the effects of ursan. 84.196.72.19 15:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

o_O
This is one of the more bizarre updates I've ever seen. It's nice to see Ursan get a slap on the wrist, though. Now it's more in line with the other blessings. I'm not quite sure what to think about this update, aside from Ursan. What do you folks think? Krelus Derian 00:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they have actually put some thought into this, which is why it's taken so long. These were not just knee jerk reactions to short term trends. Only time will tell how it will all play out, though I for one am pleased that Ursan is no longer a 'make me invicible indefinitely' skill. Maybe we will see some actual groups playing in elite areas like the Domain of Anguish again.--[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 00:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I liked the Ursan Rage change (no more knock downs wasted because of kiting) and the change to Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support seems... interesting. But over everything, love to see the charrslayer bug fixed at last.--Fighterdoken 00:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If nothing else on the non-ursan skills, it will change the meta a bit and add something new for people to do with skills. That alone is a plus IMO. | Foul Bane | 00:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just got a "Headshot" with EBSS and "Balthazar bless my strength, teach my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." Appeared in the chat log. (:--[[Image:Lava spider.jpg|19px]] Spider 00:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit: Seems more than one.. "I am a Stone. I do not move. I do not tremble. I have no fear"--[[Image:Lava spider.jpg|19px]] Spider 00:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Its a major buff to PvE to attract new players and give them a better gameplay of the game and to attract them to NightFall product. I dont play PvE too much, theres less interaction of players unless you are playing Prophecies...thats another story. Kudos for them to change GvG....ok... I play a lot with Mesmer, Ranger, Ritualist and Assassin(which may leave) in all formats except GvG(reunite a group of time wasting friends for this), HA(geeks that will argue with anything even if you throw them a bone) and HB(go to the Talk page), anyhow heres some of their skills that may stand out in and change meta in PvP for those classes except of course HB:

Mesmer Ranger Ritualist Assassin Too bad the PvP portion of the game wont get a facelift for a while, maybe the game was intended for PvE? Dont get me wrong, the Major Update For PvE was good, in fact was great. Now when I get back to PvP...hmm all I got to do now is change one build, the Incendiary Arrows build......--ShadowFog 04:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Factions-Lyssa's Aura: Elite to the skill Auspicious Incantation.
 * NightFall-Tease: Elite interruption in the area to Cry of Frustration.
 * NightFall-Visions of Regret: Scare your foe than hex with Wastrel's Worry.
 * Prophecies-Incendiary Arrows: I used to use this skill with Serpent's Quickness to mantain a constant of interrupt attacks indefintely.
 * Factions-Melandru's Shot: It activates if the foe is knock down...
 * Factions-Defiant Was Xinrae: Protect yourself while you heal others, good with stacking enchantments that does the same, oh wait! Don't the skill Protective Spirit does the same thing already?, oh I get it, since this steal life its elite or is it cause of the 60 secs that it last on yourself?...sarcasm...Downside is that Communing lost a skill, go figure, no we now how they feel about communing...who cares... The drop effect is pfffftt. So this wont change a thing? I guess they arent worried cause *NightFall-Xinrae's Weapon wont overshadow Defiant Was Xinrae...will it?...of course it will, upgrade your product to NightFall.
 * NightFall-Hidden Caltrops: Shadow Prisons assassins are back(is some sort of way)! Even better(maybe), while you are hexed activate skills that target hexed foe then knockdown them to death when they become Crippled.
 * NightFall-Golden Skull Strike: Lead Attack requirement was removed and cost less than other Dazed inflicting skills, this one cost 10.

Since when
Do suit of armors leave a exploitable corpse? Have they always or have they just started to? Dominator Matrix  00:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The Isle of the Nameless things? Always did.  24.179.144.91 00:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh XD im slow then...move along! Dominator Matrix  00:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Prophecies Skills
YES!! Alot of the prophecies elites have now been MEGA buffed!!!Syntheticfibers 00:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I'd like to throw my voice in with the chorus of "excellent update!" It's always nice to see things getting shaken up, and all the lovely new options given from old skills are truly great. Before all the whiners hit, I'd like to give my compliments. --Valentein 02:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Definitely agree there, the Proph elites have had it coming for a long time. It's a shame really since Proph is my fave over the other 2 campaigns--BeeD 09:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Master of Magic
...Energy storage has been getting a lot of wickedly awsome updates this year! First Ether Renewal, now Master of Magic! The Zealot's Fire smiters are pretty dead now, though, but smiting in general was out of style after Prophecies, wasn't it? ^^ Silavor 00:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I might use this on my ele now. 000.00.00.00 00:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * MoM got a great buff. However, wiki fails to state that it ends when you use a non-elemental spell. That kinda killed some ideas i had =/~Falcon71.198.125.174 01:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but most of my ele builds can work around that ^_^ 000.00.00.00 02:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill is now awesome for utility ele 's in PvP. Ward against melee + blurred vision + maybe some blind or weakness from air. Ele 's. Ward against melee will be more comon now with the new air of disenchantment. 84.196.72.19 15:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

No HOM update
i though there was gonna be an account based HOM update??? i was looking forward to it.


 * Eh, they said specifically there's no timeframe on when the HoM changes would be implemented. They never said it was even close to happening. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 00:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the only thing that will get me to play gw again--24.34.96.64 02:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They announced the HoM plans first, I think they should have at least included the tormented in this update.

sniper support.
just wow... only 10% but still....--Mashav 00:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Killed about 150 Charr so far with it, and I havn't seen any additional dmg. Hit 1 Shock Phantom in CoF and got the bonus dmg right away. Either I'm very unlucky or the 25% is acting more like 1%--Masato 02:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

+900 dmg? wtf was Anet smoking lol Darkdawn 02:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The low proc on this is enough to make it laugh-inducingly fun, but not enough to make it broken. I was entertained for about a half hour just smacking the Master of Damage with it. Snap! Headshot! Krelus Derian 04:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wish it was AoE ...--Underwood 05:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * lol Adjacent foes getting hit and blinded with flying shards of bone and brain. 000.00.00.00 10:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's go EZPK Shiro with this; Everyone bring this and spam it at all times! Rofl -- Ezekial Riddle 14:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

>____>
Visions of Regret needs a slight reduce. Dont over nerf it A-net style, please. maybe reduce damage scale by 20-25. And if the GW community can use their brains, maybe they will figure out how to use Warriors Endurance with a scythe. Might need a slight nerf too if so. GW Anet. This update was pretty freakin good. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 19:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

EDIT: Nevermind, Pre-veil owns this skill so hard.

GANK WAAAAARS
--76.25.197.215 01:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC) Yea, super gank wars. prokiller88 03:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

mirror of ice
only deal damage to the target of aoe waterhexes, it's armorignoring however

doesn't work with frozen burst,

there aren't many water hexes, like 9 u can use it with.

I'm dissapointed.

QQ

--Cancer Angel  02:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

ok this skill is win, so there is only 9 hexes you can use with this...meh, this give you a nice spike for your high hitters, and roughly 40 damage is not bad when you use blurred vision either, 140 damage for shard storm, you can't tell me that not bad--Metal Sazz 05:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This skill still won 't be used pretty often. the fact is water ele isn 't there for the damage but for the utility. The perfect skill now for Ele 's in GvG is master of magic. Wich allows utility of all kinds. You can use ward against melee, blurred vision and enervating charge on the same character. wich allows ALOT of utulity. Expect this skill to be ran in GvG alot on utiliy ele 's. Now ganking is more promoted in GvG defence and utility will be more required in the main team. 84.196.72.19 06:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Glimmering Mark
Fails even when using hostile attacks? Not just spells? --24.225.87.87 03:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Tested on Isle of the Nameless. It doesn't disappear when I attack. -- Michael the Perfectionist  [[Image:User-Michael the Perfectionist Signature.gif]] 06:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't mean just attacks. Attack skills, touches, and signets seem to remove this as well, opposed to the spells as in the description.  Or at least I was having a problem with it last night. --24.225.87.87 17:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I use it as my Primary hex on my Assassin's now. Best way to exceed degen cap, it basically does 10 health degen.

~Phill Gaston ‎ 08:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Consume Soul
Doesn't go by description. Says it takes summoned creature's full health, but really only takes spirit's full health. This totally ruined my fun as I tried to go out and destroy MM minions in AB. 66.56.218.206 03:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

yeah it was a big shock to me too when i tried and ruin some poor mm's day. Last time i check minions were summon creature :\--Metal Sazz 04:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Most likely a bug due to the fact that it used to work on just Spirits and when they changed the functionality they forgot to include other summoned creatures in it.--Underwood 04:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Ursan change
I think they took the ursan change too far, it is so nerfed that it shouldn't be counted as an elite anymore. At this point bringing ursan now is pointless, so how long before no one uses it anymore and it gets buffed like lots of elites did today. And come on 60sec it would end in the middle of major battles.
 * But people won't bitch. *cheer* Vael Victus  [[Image:User_Vael_Victus_Sig.jpg|18px|Pancakes.]] 03:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Have to admit I didn't think they'd completely kill it. Also, don't understand at all why they left the blessings as elites. They really no longer are because of the duration, but more importantly if you try to come up with a way to use them in a build all your really doing is leaving yourself without an elite for half the time while they are down. -- Inspired to ____ 03:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ONOZ, mashing 4 buttons in no particular order is to hard now Q_Q --[[image:User_FlamingMetroid_Metroidsig.png ‎| 19px]] Metroid 04:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * BAWW less, ursan is still a good skill, its not god-mode anymore thats all. Any brainless noob could run ursan and clear *insert random pve area here* with ease. The attack power that comes of ursan shouldn 't give the user buffs, it should give them handicaps. Ursan was like, wielding a warrior as a shield, then wacking him arround caused more damage an ele would do on a single target. I would have shown even less mercy towards ursan if i had to balance it. Noboddy would ever use the ursan as i would have made it. Yes i resent ursan... ALOT. I just hope ANet won 't chicken out and revert ursan just because all the Ursanway farmers start leaving. And if you think it never happened, just look at what happened to shadowform in the last update. So ANet do mankind a favor and never, ever buff ursan again, because imho its still to good. Ursan needed a hit from the nerf stick, maybe now we can find a descent balanced team to go to UW again. 84.196.72.19 05:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure it did need a nerf, but not this bad, on the dev page when they talked about nerfing it they said it would be able to be used tactically, having ursan in your bar as an elite makes it so u have basically 7.5 skills, so using ursan now instead of a different elite it not tactical at all, so idk how we are suppose to use it tactically, so they either need to make it no longer an elite or drop the time effect off of it and add energy degen back
 * Ursan is still good for what it was inteded to. AKA help people in Hm and vanquishing. If You just run it on a warrior as elite and a descent warrior bar besaids for when you aren 't in ursan this skill is still the best elite you could have. If it was me i wouldve changed the casting requirement to 100% life sacrifice. ursan still is good. If you think ursan is bad now how it is then you need to learn how to play a descent bar rather then betting all your horses on one frigging skill. If you think ursan is bad, cry me a rivver, then build a bridge and GET OVER IT. With the former ursan i could let my mom play in UW in an ursanway team and she would still clear it. However if you take a balanced team to go to uw you will hardly ever make it. Ursan was OVERPOWERED, now its balanced enough. and its balanced rather to the strong side. Ursan is still a good skill, stop being bad at guildwars and play the way its entended to, this means not hiding behind the most overpower skill guildwars has ever known apart from gwen 's spontanious combustion ofcource :). 84.196.72.19 06:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes ursan was imba, but now its a waste of an elite, they need to find the middle ground here and for the uw thing, i did mention makeing ursan not work in elite areas on the dev page(just forgot to transfer that over here), and have u ever tried h/h vanquishing with ursan, meaning just you and heros and hench it was doable for most areas, however if ursan is dropping every 60 sec i don't even want to try, mind u doing this on a nec not a war
 * Then just don't even try, pls. IP is correct, if you rely on just 1 elite for playing the entire game or even rely on 1 special elite for a particular area then you are plain playing the wrong game. Try a first person shooter instead. Ursan "God Mode Cheat Code" Blessing is dead. This parrot is no more! --Xer 07:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * People were quite capable of doing things in-game before Ursan, without Ursan it just takes a little longer. I mainly H/H through the game, unless I'm bored, and H/H HM isn't that much of a challege. 000.00.00.00 10:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ursan still is a good skill and not a waste of an elite, its still a good skill as most classes in pve don 't have an awesome elite to run, ursan will still do more dammage and bring more resilience to most players (lets not forget elemental damage for warriors) and it still does alot of damage. I'm proud to say i never rely on an ursan to do anything in my team. I'm quite proud t say i ask ursan users their bar on the spot when they join my team. I just can 't stand a random noob can do more damage and be resilient as hell at the same time. Ursan was god mode, now its just balanced. Stop whining its still worth its elite slot. What else are you gonna run on a warrior in PvE? One of the best skills is tripple chop and even then that will do less damage then one ursan rage. and lets not forget the 150 slashing every 4 seconds. You are whining about the fact they turned off God mode on your *insert HL1/HL2 mod here* server. Learn how to play or just stop at all. Ursan was IMBA, Ursan is worth its elite status and Ursan is still powerfull enough as it is. If you beg to differ so be it, however ANET has been gentle on Ursan IMHO. If you take a look what they did to other overpowered elites you should know. We all remember what happened to Steady Stance, Ether renewal, Incoming and Angelic bond, just to name a few. They have been nerfed to the nothingness. I would be the last person to whine on ANET for nerfing Ursan like they nerfed the examples i gave. Conclusion: Stop whining about god-mode being nerfed and learn how to play. Yes it goes slower now it still works. I tought the entire point of games where to waste time and have fun. Also a Necro shoudln 't be running ursan in the first place. A good curse necro can easily out-damage an Ursan user. I hero/henchwayed myself trough HM and i am a legendary guardian. Granted i was monking myself wich makes alot of difrence. Still i believe it possible to overcome ANY area ingame with a balanced well organized team rather then some team build designed for farming the area.84.196.72.19 14:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Well... They finally did it, eh? We can now use other kinds of forms for Ursan. Heh....

If you're dervish/part derv, the Nightfall sunspear skill for them is VERY useful for recharging the forms.

I hope to go into Olafstead and see people saying Raven and Volfen LFG. Honestly, I do.


 * About the Sunspear dervish skill, no, it's not useful for recharging the forms : it only recharges dervish skills, so, it won't recharge Ursan. 79.89.236.147 16:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

 Ursan still is a good skill and not a waste of an elite, its still a good skill as most classes in pve don 't have an awesome elite to run,

Care to tell oni what class this is? I can name you a good elite in pve for every class: Cbf to keep going, but yar get it.Oni  17:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Warrior: Warriors endurance
 * 2) Ranger: Barrage
 * 3) Ritualist: WoR
 * 4) Assassin: mb/db
 * 5) Necromancer: Minion master elites, spiteful spirit.
 * 6) Monk: Luls, doubt you ment this class lacked elites.
 * 7) Paragon: Who gives a fuck what elite you take, you got There's Nothing To Fear
 * 8) Dervish: avatars


 * Okay that line quite came out wrong. Alot of classes have good elites. Still ursan is not a waste of an elite. Also if u barrage without splinter u need to learn how to play ranger. If you like MM elites u need to learn how to play MM. MM has no good elites, flesh golem is only mediorce, mm has been only mediocre since factions. I rather take an SS/RH necro. Also u seriously need to learn how to play a paragon. And with that i mean not imbagon (aka save yourselves etc). You 'll see the elite does mather. Wounding strike > avatar. None of the avatars are usefull when you have a descent monk, unless lyssa, in wich case wounding strike is more usefull. And u also missed some classes. Also i don 't think any caster should run Ursan anyway. If u think an avatar is more usefull then ursan u overestimate avatars or underestimate the power of ursan. also if u think power strike spam is better then ursan strike spam u need to learn how to count. 84.196.72.19 21:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Experts Dexterity
My ranger is now bowing to Anets feet for this one. Hell, all the ranger updates are making me buy Signets of Capture. THANK YOU, ANET! YOU ARE MY SAVIOR!!!! --  Wandering   Traveler  04:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya really I'm glad I have all of them on my ranger already xD. I love the change on Melandru's Shot its like Cripslash, however, it needs a lower recharge (around 6-8 seconds) to see any real use. It's kind of meh now since Pin Down pretty much does it better and we already have a cover thanks to Apply Poison or Barbed Arrows--Underwood 05:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * yeah, I tried to run Melandru's in AB, and.....heh, didnt work out too well XD. Its still really nice with the added bleeding, but I'll stick with pin down ^.^ --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  05:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hell yeh! I was online when the update came in except it was way too alte at night to get onto GW to go get it. ED is going to kick arse and take names... well maybe not, but it'll help!--BeeD 09:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

GvG Meta
is so fucked. RC will leave, trip monk will rise, and flagging will end. My thoughts. -- frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 04:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would flagging end?? if Guilds are fighting for morale boost and one team gets it and gets the +300 for their Guild lord wouldnt it make sence to keep running the flag to stop the other Guild to get the +300 also??? --[[Image:User Wild rituals signature.png|Talk]]Wild 05:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Plus you need morale to recharge those res sigs --Underwood 05:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * warrs end scythes are so much pressure, that few if any games will last long enough to get morale. --[[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 05:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, maybe a flagger, but essentially a 3rd monk w/ a run skill. -- frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 05:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

No no, not even 3 monks can handle this kind of aggression. Why not go with 10? Or perhaps drop the monk entirely and everyone go offense Lightblade 05:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Go like 3 Magebanes, 3 Cripshots and 2 BA's. Selfhealing, damage and pure annoyance. Drag  nmn   talk cont  09:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * B/c the WE Scythes will still kill you. Then they have the midline to fuck with you even more... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 15:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Way of the Assassin
Good update, but small note: Way of the Assassin -> now even more compressed scythe insta-kill assa skillbar. Failed to add when using daggers. HF, the skill is called "way of the assassin", not "way of the dervish better done by an assassin". --Xer 05:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Crits on daggers are near pointless compared witth he dammage done by the attack skills. However i also look sceptical against this change as it may cause imbalances in Random arena and team arena. critscytes and critical interupters (disrupting accuracy) will probably more common then ever after this change.84.196.72.19 05:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nearly pointless? What about the energy gain? -- Gordon Ecker 09:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats why i said NEAR pointless, any sin with 12 10 8 split on dagger choice and crit strikes and a zealous weapon can pull of any combo, just poke a few times with critical eye and your energy is full again. The redeeming feature are skills that work on crits like keen arrow, disrupting accuracy and vicious attack as examples, and second the high damage that comes of hammers and scytes (mainly scytes) when they result in a critical hit. These weapons used to have the downside of having an attack of 1.75 seconds wich was balanced, but with this update you are comming very close and even can surpass to the attack speed of an axe without IAS. Now i may be wrong but auto-attacks of 80 damage on a 60 armor every (with 14 crit strikes) 1.25 seconds is maybe a bit to much combined with the ability to to use attack skill that will almost certain result in a crit. The redeeming feature of the crit on an assasin is energy, on every other class its the damage. When you combine the sin with a weapon other then daggers, the two features combines now with the IAS are maybe to much to handle now. 84.196.72.19 14:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Weeeee! *likes IAS* :D Pakuna 11:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Meanwhile a new assa build with spears is spreading. Way of the Assassin is surely a great way to circumvent the penalty of Aggressive Refrain and getting free criticals on the top. Wait... isn't this a marvelous buff to Escapeway... or Bunnyway? Getting rid of the pets, increasing damage and free some skillslots for even more damage skills? Is this the idea behind this? --82.83.51.206 16:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

well in all honesty people who think runes are "ZOMFG U HAVE LESS HEALTH U FAIL SO BAD", i laugh at you, hell runes at what make assassins GOOD that fact you can have 100 dps w/ unsuspecting strike wild strike and death blossom w/ WoTa on at 14-14-6 is amazing. 490 hp. 37 energy. 100 dps. condition removal. stance removal. godly.

I swear, use some Sup runes, Community. Trust me, if 4 health is such a big difference to you, your bound to die with or w/o it anyway. I can run a ranger w/ 480 health and rape face. Do Vigor runes not exist on peoples PvP sets?


 * An assasin is a frontliner with 70 armor, a warrior is a frontliner with 96 armor atleast when he wields a shield (and 116 against physiscal) If you know 40 armor is half damage, then u know that warrior takes half damage from physical compared to you. Seesing as melee in PvE is meant to manage agro and soak damage, adding more runes will only lower your health thus make is so u'll die even faster. In PvE melee is used to pressure. No critical hit with daggers more or less will way of the assasin make it worth your while. Aka this skill is pointless now. High Hp is asked so when the awesome PvE agro says, Hey that guy there is nice, lets all attack him at the same moment, you will die. Wheras if you have 600 Hp compared to 450 hp you atleast have a shot at being saved. Major runes are still do-able if they are used to reach a break-point u still need. However when you are running arround with hardly 450 hp, and no way to block or prevent your own damage you will be killed over and over in PvE and PvP. Sup runes are only ran in spikes in PvP, in almost all other cases, use minors. 84.196.72.19 22:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Heroes / henchmen overextending
Is just me, or are heroes and henchmen behaving exactly the opposite as what states the update? See the image for an example. I was standing half an agro bubble away from the spirit, but all the H/h still charged towards it for killing him.--Fighterdoken 06:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Noticed this too, my heroes and henchmen keep rushing to kill groups that are well outside of my (or even thier) aggro bubble. --Boogy [[image:User Boogy Sig.jpg]] (Talk/Contributions) 15:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Does that happen no matter what mode the heroes are set to? Spirits can hit well outside of an aggro bubble and if the heroes are set to "attack" would they not respond right away? Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  • 15:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Can confirm this. I set em to guard and their still chasing groups halfway across the map.(I brought low powered AoE to test this after I noticed it late last night) This happened once in Avoid Combat mode with Dunkoro, have yet to see it again. --Masato 17:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've noticed AI rushing targets outside of their aggro for a while now, but was generally the melee type, occasionally a Ele caster but when my nercos and monks rush in [and one was on defence] I had to shout at my screen. This has been bugging me for a while, can it please be fixed. 000.00.00.00 18:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems just selecting a target makes the AI think you're calling them as a target. Very frustrating. '''[[Image:User That Sounds Risky SignatureImage.png|That]] Sounds Risky  | 20:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

/bow @ anet 4 Visions of Regret
thx anet for this one, i used to run it (rarely) in pvp against W/P, but now this is gonna be massive!!! pixy 07:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

New error Message??
When you type in a wrong password you got an error 11 now you get a error 226 I think. Its completly different. --  The Warrior Of Timi 07:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Finally you killed the Monk in PvP
Are you happy now? Healers in PvP are finally dead. They were unable to handle the condition-over, hex-over, insane physical damage before this update. But, now, with even more damage, hexes, degen, interrupts and enchantment removement and zero additional help for healers in PvP I would report every single player a griefer and leecher that dares to bring a dedicated healer to RA or TA. --85.226.76.96 07:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * im trying to work out if ur actually being serious --[[Image:User Wild rituals signature.png|Talk]]Wild 07:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They need to revert lod. They've been adding too much damage to the game without adding defense (hell, they've been methodically nerfing defense, from water eles with aegis to wards to mesmers), and have been since nightfall. To remove the power creeped healing spells but to leave the power creeped offense is ridiculous. - Auron 07:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well yeah i agree but still they havent killed the monk in PvP --[[Image:User Wild rituals signature.png|Talk]]<font color="#4E8975">Wild 08:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They rendered it almost useless. While the anti-monk skillbars were brought to perfection during the last years, monk skills were nerfed in general (except healer's covenant which resulted in very intelligent and useful gimmicky bar, but it has been finally fun to play monk again - for 2 weeks or so). If you can kill a player with 550 health using 3 attacks in less than 5 seconds, every player playing a healer is just dumb. Very dumb. Healing or protecting is a very irrational strategy by now, because it doesn't correlate in any way to the damage you could have done as a damage dealer or could have inflicted by degeneration in the same amount of time. --213.220.233.230 08:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Damn close... -- <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 08:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

AoE change = maximum impact on HA Lightblade 09:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, AoE hexes are insanly overpowered. A single well placed VoR and its GG, be it TA, HA or GvG. Since there is no effective hex removement available... well, just let your team mate cover it with AoE life transfer :-). And the improved monk elites are utterly useless in pvp. This game is in serious need of help, really. --Xer 10:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Solution: Give blessed light a much needed buff OR extinguish like skills but for hexes. Its true the monk gets offered very little in comparison with other classes. Monk pressure keeps rising while almost nothing is offered to relieve the pressure. 84.196.72.19 14:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

What many people seem to be forgetting is that it appears that non of the well known HA of GvG teams seem to be having a problem with this. I've been monking in HA for the last 5 hours with no problems concerning hex removal. 90% of the time people complaining about monking can't do it effectivly or outside of PvE. Now granted this update hasn't even been out for a full day, so I might not be seeing the supposed issue yet. It's alliance GvG and HA weekend so I'll keep watching things.--Masato 17:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, just because the Top 100 of players don't have any problems with it, we can ignore any problems 99,5% of the rest may have? Remember the vast majority of players is excluded from HA because of rank discrimination (not to speak high end GvG). 99,5% of the players don't give a damn about high end PvP because it is only played by a tiny minority. --82.83.51.206 18:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You know, you could try to play better instead of whining here? I don't face any problems regarding the recent buff to VoR and Life Transfer. And FYI, I am not even close to be considered one of the "Top 100 of players" in case you were planning to use that pathetic excuse as your shield. I play ABs, TA, RA, and FA very often; in fact yesterday I went on a 12 hour spree just to test out new skills and their efficiency. Can't handle AoE hexes? Kite please, stop kissing each other and you won't have a problem with ADJACENT AoE hexes. Mind you, I did 12 RA matches in a row healing with just healing burst, not even WoH. Pika Fan 03:28, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It takes a lot of playing better to beat out getting gangbanged by two axe thumpers and a WoD necro. But grats on being able to heal with a heal spell. --71.229.253.172 03:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Great update!
HOOOLYYY SHIT! Thanks ANet and dev-team! I must say, excellent work on resurrecting unused Elite Skills, great use of imagination! Now I gained back my will to play ^^ - IronHeart 10:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

PvE skills?
"Another goal is to alter the grind currently associated with many PvE-only skills."

And they decide to buff them? The only PvE skills that they have acctualy nerfed is the blessings. So doesnt that mean that people will start grinding for the other PvE skills insted of ursan? Cuz to me what they have done sounds like they want to have even more grinding in GW then there already is? Or am i just missing something? --<font color="Black" >A <font color="Red" >zreal <font color="Black">o <font color="Red">f <font color="Black" >S <font color="Red">kyrim  10:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, soon you have to be r9+ in all Norn, Asura, Deldrimor and Dwarf title tracks to find a PUG that won't kick you. --82.83.51.206 10:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What they've done is for a lot of the skills they've buff the effects at low ranks while keeping them the same at high ranks. The idea is that it means rank makes much less difference to how effective the skill is. Doubt it will work on the rank "elite"ists though.Cassie 11:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Cassie is exactly right. Simply because you see "increase", it doesn't mean "increase both floor and ceiling".  They increased the floor of the skills while making the ceiling easier to get to (r8, I believe).  Stop crying about something you don't understand.  66.56.218.206 14:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn 't true. the pve skills aren 't that usefull in comparison with the general skills. Sure its nice to have dodge this on a barrage ranger bar for instance, still that doesn 't mean u need it. PvE skills were actualy under-powered, noboddy realy used them apart from the descent ones. the general effects of most PvE skills is just bad, so only buffing their damage a bit will hardly help at all. I know i still won 't be using ebon vanguard sniper support whenever i'm up against char. Some people will, but most people just take a PvE skill because they don 't know what else to take instead. If you look at the skills you see most of them are kinda useless and only used in extrodinary situations. They are usefull once in a while but noboddy will realy care wether you use them or not. 84.196.72.19 14:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

A couple are, but mainly for select builds or teams such as Cryway or the Dervs' Avatars. Hell though, Eternal Aura is good for almost any PvE derv build just for the recharge effect. Still think Seed of Life is by far the best PvE only skill out there.--Masato 16:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow all i did is ask a question and someone just bites my head off...anyway back to what i was going to say, thx Cassie for explaining it, i just found it odd that they increased them while skiming through the updates--<font color="Black" >A <font color="Red" >zreal <font color="Black">o <font color="Red">f <font color="Black" >S <font color="Red">kyrim  17:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Mursaat Monk Bosses
LOL after 3 years of people complaining they finally do something. Dark templar 10:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you failed hard enough to not bring any sort of anti-caster (broad head arrow is amazing, btw) against these guys that you knew were awesome healers, that was your own fault. Besides, the reduced armor doesn't make any sort of a difference now that Aura of Faith requires some sort of skill to use effectively. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 13:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Factions Elite in Prophecies? GG. If you didn't play back in the days don't talk about it. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:User_Poki_Signature.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]] 13:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But concussion shot also dazes... -- Ezekial Riddle 14:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Enchantment removal also worked very well against Aura of Faith, and was often forgotten. IMO the problem with these bosses was Unnatural Resistance - the property that conditions and hexes have halved duration on all Prophecies bosses. I never understood that rule, giving how the core professions it hurts the most, Mesmer and Necromancers, were far from being that popular when Prophecies was first released. Erasculio 15:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The point still stands that if you can't bring one daze skill in a party of eight, you're doing something wrong. 75.182.89.73 03:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

How many people were smart enough to bring Enchantment Removal back then though? Not a whole lot. Pre-factions was the most fun, but also the most challenging. I might go buy a proh only account just to relive it.--Masato 16:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Unyeilding Aura and Others
UA and others have being completely changed. I think its fair enough to tweak and balance skills, but I really don't think they should completely change skills, especially elites, to have a different function. TBH, it doesn't really effect me since I hardly use any of the majorly changed skills, its just a matter of principle.- TheRave 11:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The whole point of them being changed is the fact that they weren 't used, by anyone. Well they were by people who didn 't have anything better. Still Its nice ANet is finaly balancing some things out, or atleast trying to. ANet seems to feel like PvP should result in a pile of dead healers in the first 30 seconds of the match. 84.196.72.19 14:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They needed a change. No-body used these skills.  The only time they hit someones skillbar was when they were capped.  This upadte is imo, the best ever. --SK 15:47, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are still hundreds of other skills that don't ever get used and they didn't get any change.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.jpg]] 15:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah - there's over a thousand skills in the game, and you can only ever equip eight of them at a time. There will always be a couple hundred unusable skills.
 * That said, there's so damn many useless skills, and ANet has such a huge track record for being slow (see also: ritspike nerf, sway nerf), that you can't really expect them to change every skill in the game all at once, especially when they specifically said that this update would change ~40 elites and made no mention of anything else.
 * -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 16:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

And remember Anet said this update was focused on ELITE skills, many of which that were updated needed that buff. Honestly though I think this is the first time Izzy has actually buffed more than 3 skills in one update. To bad SF can still be maintained, those UW speedruns need to be nerfed. Go ahead and remove the 33%, but it shouldn't be able to be maintained and be abused in this manner. If FoW is going back to normal then UW should too.--Masato 16:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Please add...
some useful tie-breaker for team arena and random arena like you did for GvG. It's incredible annoying to lose in the 19th game against a noobish shove spike that just keeps running away without killing anything. A draw is punishing only the honest players. Doing nothing should be punished not being honored by letting the other team lose, too. That's intentional griefing: if I can't win, at least I make the other team lose. Bad. Bad. Bad. --82.83.51.206 11:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree --<font color="Black">Cancer Angel [[Image:Symbol of Wrath.jpg|19px|talk]] 14:43, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "That's intentional griefing: if I can't win, at least I make the other team lose. Bad. Bad. Bad. "
 * I've done that before. I was in a team with 3 Monks and a War, and basically no one was dying. The other guys asked us to resign, but we didn't. It was fun, but damn did I feel like an asshole afterward. There should be some form of tie-breaker, like perhaps incorporating the roll system to actually do something and not depend on honor. -- Ezekial Riddle 14:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * SO you where that asshole. No just kidding, anyway its indeed not fun things like this happen, however this is something that should be taken care of by the players, not Anet. 84.196.72.19 14:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait, so if neither side can win, the players should be the ones to figure out what to do, not ANet? Didn't we have this discussion a few years ago, and ANet decided that stalemates should be broken? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 16:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Something like next kill wins or whoever has dealt the most damage or something. Probably the second. --76.25.197.215 18:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

There does need to be some way to break up the staller builds in Ra and Ta. (4 55 monks in TA? XD) But remember this is LOW END PvP, which Anet doesn't care about. As do many others. Still though I agree there needs to be some kind of fix.--Masato 16:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 55 monks? ergh. so easy to kill.
 * I once saw a team of eight 55s in GvG... The other team happened to have brought Symbiosis. Hilarity ensues. Krelus Derian 17:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Just a thot on Hero/Henchmen monks
Firstly, I'd like to thank anet for getting the ai on the heros and henchmen ironed out so that they work more or less like a real player. I can imagine all the coding that goes into it and its not an easy thing. Just one suggestion: can you also get hero/henchmen monks to stop healing and prot'ing minons? It may seem like a minor thing, but sometimes it drives me nuts, and it gets a little frustrating at times to keep em focused on the actual players when I'm running minion masters, lol. Anyway, keep up the good work. :) 198.54.202.214 16:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Ryn Shaia
 * Would love to see that. Especially in missions like Vizunah Square where Mhenlo keeps healing minions and wont follow his pathing. Same goes for Danika in Arborstone.~Falcon71.198.125.174 17:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For a moment I thought they completely BROKE the Monk AI because a group of six Charr Seekers gave me a problem and Ogden wasn't really doing anything. What actually happened was they were all taking turns hitting him with Savage Shot. I must say, this update made AI monks far more efficient and discerning. I'm considering replacing my e-management Blood Livia with something else! Krelus Derian 17:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

H/H healing minions isn't a big deal. Personally, I prefer that they do. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:203.129.42.254 (talk).

Now made of 99% WIN!
Other than Flashing Blades and Way of the Assassin I am in LOVE this update!!!! Done25 18:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This update is the last big blow before the fall.[[Image:User Ereanor sig.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 19:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately you are telling the truth, Ereanor. 87.205.167.124 20:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, this update - like every skill update before it - is a sign of the impending apocalypse. /sarcasm 130.111.163.49 20:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Stop whining Ereanor, deal with Ursan being gone. I'm glad it's gone, it was just a skill for people that didn't know how to play the game without it.
 * I don't think he was talking about Ursan tbh... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 01:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

gg a.net
You changed approximetaly 50% of the game. The ursan nerf was... well, inevitable, no one expected any different... Good buffzorz on the less used elites, although now we'll have to remember every new skill description. TNTF Buff <3 SY Buff <3 No AR buff </3 AND YAY! LONGAR SoL U MAYDED MONKS HAPY! And the way I see it, the buffs for the PvE skills are made to compensate for the Ursan nerf.. But anyway, good update! now back to work on GW2.
 * ranting session over* 77.126.250.132 12:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You realize only the lower end numbers of the PvE skills were buffed? They may as well have not changed anything for all that it matters - pugs are still going to want max rank or gtfo, and smart people still know that the previous lower-end numbers were more than high enough. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 13:59, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought they would at least change how many points you received for kills or something along the lines of actually get ranks in those titles not "lets change the grind by changing numbers around." Nope still want to grind to get the better domoges.--Underwood 23:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Tittle Grinding
So basically with this update only raising the minimums on PvE skills and not the maxes, you are trying to stop the title grinding, which in the process you have made it so you get very little extra for doing the title grinding which does discourage title grinding. So what is the HoM for then, is it not to give us bonuses in gw2 for title grinding. It just seems like you are trying to contradict the purpose of the HoM, which somebody must have thought was a good idea at one point in time. And to be honest no pugs cared what your rank was in any title besides norn unless you where in DoA in which case you need lightbringer as well, which I don't think this update touched. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.254.165.163 (talk).
 * Because of the buff to the other PvE skills I've started seeing PuGs in DoA and other areas looking for r8+ asuran and ebon. So instead of removing the grinding they've made it worse.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.jpg]] 12:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The hell would they use ebon and asura for? Sniperway? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 15:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Our guld tried that. Works wonders against bosses and the like. But individual enemies arent worth it. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  15:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To be honest, at this point there's no really good logical reason to discriminate based on rank. Any remaining rank elitism is the fault of retarded PuGs, not ANet. Krelus Derian 18:31, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"The Fail Is Yours!"
"Functionality changed to: This skill now does nothing.". 1. Too low regen 2. you can't keep it up 100% of the time 3. It is placed in a dead attribute. Crappy skill in a crappy attribute. The description makes it sound like it does something. It only gives everyone 1 energy for every 4 adrenaline spent. Unfortunately it also tanks your other adrenaline skills by 1 strike. In fact, giving this 5 en cost would improve this considerably. Blood ritual owns this junk...+3 regen on key players > sporadic +1 regen on everyone. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Spura (talk).


 * someone is missing the added point with this skill now. You can make it end nearly every 4 seconds, wich is awesome for keeping up echo and using skills that have an effect when a shout or chant ends such as finale of restoration. also its a HUGE eenergy management for the para itself, as he shouts on the whole team, giving him onc again the ability to spam old high-energy classics wich where used earlier on para 's like this with go for the eyes and watch yourself. The power of this skill is that its energy management for EVERYBODDY, in the first case the paragon himself. This will result in energy attack-skill spam, maybe with hybird spells wich wern 't used de to the lack of energy. 84.196.72.19 22:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd hate to take elite because it is good energy management for me on a party support character. Besides, paragon has nothing to use that energy on. --89.142.23.210 08:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...What? Paragons use plenty of energy - their best skills use energy. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 12:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * O rly? What non-pve paragon skill requires energy management and doesn't suck? Or better yet...name a skill bar that would be good and would profit from having "The power is yours!" on it for energy management.--89.142.174.20 19:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Its not all para skills, its skills like Mirror of Disenchantment and Cry of Frustration. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 21:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Your point was that paragons didn't use energy, which is clearly wrong. Your point was not that paragons use so much energy that they should bring TPiY, which is also wrong. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 03:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well since its free, actually the power belongs to the Paragons, since you can get 7 energy from it, well...from any shout that doesnt cost energy you can get 6 energy so...a what the hell, I cant think of a reason for this skill, read the developers notes, I read it and was dumbfounded.--ShadowFog 23:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

VOD+boring slugfests
Good job on making npc's not matter. GvG is a boring slugfest. Could have at least removed half the npc's on some maps, make splitting a threat once again, make npc's matter once again have them walk. Route of the problem was farming npc's during VOD because some damn maps have 14+npcs, try again. 76.66.9.186 16:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC)pissed
 * Thats a good point. With reduced NPCs, a split might actually have a chance to get to the Lord before 18:00... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 16:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Because I doubt the balance team obses, here's the current meta.
 * Run defensive shit.
 * Masturbate for twenty-seven minutes.
 * Zerg the enemy lord just before the tie-breaker, wand him once, win.
 * Do something about this. For example, choose a less retarded way to break ties. --76.25.197.215 04:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, now i get it
I was wondering why all of the skills were made soo much better. Because Ursan destroyed PvE and since they nerfed it, they wanted all PvErs to still be really good at the game. Not just destroy it further. And by making all of the skills better there's a variety of skills to choose from. making Guild Wars a challenge. Now i get why Ursan was so bad.--‎ F<tt>i</tt>r<tt>e</tt>  T<tt>o</tt>c<tt>k</tt>  14:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I was gonna go with the "they're trying to make more than three hundred skills actually useful because people are dumb and have to be spoon-fed their builds, and they wanted to reduce the title grind so they bumped up the lower ends of the PvE skills", but that works too. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 14:58, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Snow Storm
Can anyone confirm that the casting time was decreased in this update? The casting time on the skill page wasn't edited until the 30th, so it could've been changed on the 8th, 14th, 21st or 22nd. -- Gordon Ecker 02:06, 17 October 2008 (UTC)