Talk:Game updates/20080215

Lol at flame djinns haste lol lol lol lolololololllllll
 * MAN! THEY MADE EVERYTHING BAD!!!!--[[Image:User Fire Tock sig.jpg|19px]]‎ Fire  Tock  23:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

who cares, this update is silly 72.183.210.160 23:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * LoL anets nerfing runners more!
 * That's pretty much it yea. Hey, why not just kill the flag stand all together? Lightblade 23:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Seems like everything was nerfed here :( &mdash;  ク  Eloc  貢  21:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Death Pact Signet could have been balanced better leaving it with 2 sec. casting time and giving it a 20 sec. recharge... It is dangerous to use this skill, but it shouldn't be spammable! The rest imho is ok, but i don't think that Storm Djinn's Haste should have been nerfed. :/ A. von Rin 22:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Hastes
Can I ask why? It's not like they were hurting anyone, flame causes damage yes, but I don't think anyone considered them imba. --Link4all 23:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop it. now. we know you are just making this game boring so that GW2 will seem better. so please. I dont wanna have to keep a game running just to avoid these cursed, awful, pointless, updates. you're simply ruining this experience. Invincible Rogue 23:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * wish they had just nerfed the damage on FDH instead of the speed nerf, i loved it as a utility spell, now its just like...meh. instead of nerfing this to hell and making the whole game seem to go slower why not give other run skills a buff? Charr Axxxe Fiend 23:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You guys phail at reading Guru. If you would've looked at this, you knew why these updates were made. 84.29.79.250 23:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Finally another sane person. Mango 00:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, clearly everyone else sucks for not reading a post by some dude on a non-official site. These morons probably even think that phail is spelled with an F. [/sarcasm] Seriously, I understand your point, but please at least try to be civil and not so condescending toward other people. Thefount 01:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I think on reason they did the flame's djinns nerf is cus a nuker fire ele would just use it and run like hell whenever melee guys came to hit it 70.149.19.6 23:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Once again PvP Comunity overcomes the PvE fun.
 * Guildwars is a pvp game, get used to it. If you dont like it, play wow. --66.45.173.98 00:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, GW is a PvP and PvE game. Thefount 01:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a PvP / PvE game, but unfortunately the balancing is focused on the PvP. The only way that it would be possible for it to be otherwise would be if skills functioned differently in PvP than they did in PvE. That, of course, will never happen so we just need to adapt. DelvingAngel 02:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is true that GW is a PVP and PvE game but we have to understand that the PvP community does not have much to do, all they really look forward to are competitions and skill buffs/nerfs since skill stagnation / overuse are more often felt there. We HAVE to be fair with them, we PvE heads get tons of more stuff to do (grind) so to be fair to them, just learn how to accept changes no matter how bad you think they are. Renin 02:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What they should do is separate the PvE skills and have an identicle set of skills for PvP so they can balance PvE and PvP separatly. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:User_Hawk_Skeer_Assassin.png|Assassin Symbol]] (Talk) 03:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Separating PvE and PvP to separate skills sets would definitely stop PvP aspects of Guild Wars from impacting on the PvE aspects. Plus, Guild Wars is a Pvp game?  Pfft, whatever.  House Of Furyan 03:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It would cause them more harm to do so even though it sounds great but like most MMOs out there, they simple tie the PvP skills with the PvE. Shouldn't be all be learning how to adapt and change our skill style as opposed to constantly bitching about nerfs? I mean this is a skill-based game after all, not same-old-cookie-cutter-that's-been-used-for-3-years game play. My opinion may not necessarily be liked. I don't like separating the skills, I like the way it is. Forces my PvE-head to rethink my builds, at least I'm challenged. OF course most people see it as being stabbed by a knife in the stomach. Different Folks, Different strokes. Renin 03:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose the only difference is that we have (are forced) to adopt our PvE play because of PvP aspects, PvE and PvP are totally different environment but share the same skill system, way not change that? Why affect two systems when only one needs the change?  These things are always worth debating.  House Of Furyan 03:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah but we both are left open to be flamed, anyway I do like that PvP gameplay affects us PvE. Separating it means double work for the person / people in charge of buffing/nerfing the skills. I doubt they have enough resources for that, and besides almost all MMOs have their skills tied to the PvP arena, just that some have a PvPvE are and we kinda don't. Renin 03:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Stop requesting the separation of PvP and PvE skills. It's bad enough we have lame "PvE-only" skills. (Yes, I'm a 98% PvE player. The game's just more fun when the skills are uniform -- more thought goes into your builds, etc. There are fewer to no imbalanced skills that you just HAVE to have in your skill bar to keep up with the mess.) --71.240.80.160 04:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Renin, people can flame me all they want, doesn't mean I'll care. Flaming is a weak man's answer to an argument they've already lost.  There are goods and bads for every situation, but I will agree that, in the end, it comes down to Anet's resources and they probably don't have enough to get half of the issues with Guild Wars has under control, let alone the PvP/PvE skill issues. House Of Furyan 05:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Completely off topic: I can give an example of when flaming isn't an argument that somebody's lost. If you've clearly pointed out facts, but another person simply refuses to accept them. Instead of repeating your argument (because doing so would be completely useless), you say something like "lol you suck." You flame them, but you are still completely right. I've seen situations like this many times on pvx with bad players defending their bad builds. Also seen it on Cripshot. &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 06:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll only say this once, because it's all been said before, many times, by people smarter than you or I.

Guild Wars was originally made for PvP. There are a grand total of three mentions of guilds in the game: The Guild Wars of history (which few enough people know about), the guilds people make and hang out in, and Guild vs Guild battles. Hey, look at that, people make guilds to play GvG. Who'd have thought?

PvP gives real life prizes. The tournaments are called "$100,000 tournaments" for a reason. For this reason, PvP balance is more important than PvE balance.

PvE is still incredibly easy if you know what you're doing. Don't complain about the nerfs when you have easy mode staring you in the face.

Making different skills for PvE and PvP would be ideal, but is impossible under the current system. It is an idea that may (and likely will) be implemented into GW2.

Any questions?

-- Armond Warblade 04:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * rather than screwing up skills, why don't pvpers just change their strategies? Invincible Rogue 04:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Firstly, consumables should never have happened, period. Secondly, none of the complaints here were about difficulty -- they were about fun factor. Thirdly, Paragon sucks for its intended role (support, rather than damage) and lastly, it's sad everyone yells "easy easy!". Of course it's easy to you when you spend so much time in the game. However, Guild Wars' PvE was intended for and targeted towards casual players. Most everyone on the forums and wiki talk forgets that. And, unfortunately, the game now has too high a difficulty curve and too much grind for casual gaming. --71.240.80.160 04:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * bcuz thar is no way to get all pvpers to not use overpowered skills. --Ip.ip.ip.ip 04:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * to guy above me: [this build] is the most powerful build in all of guild wars, and its a support build. PvE is easy, even for casual players (I can beat any champaign in less than 18 hours of gameplay pretty easily). The time you spend in game doesn't change how easy it is, either. --Ip.ip.ip.ip 04:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Rogue: How do you mean, "screwing up skills"? Did you completely ignore the part where I said "PvP has real life rewards and thus is the focus of balance"? PvE goes by the wayside when it comes to balance, and it will until separation of skills comes into existence. Why don't PvErs just change their strategies instead of bitching about nerfs to instagibs in PvP?
 * 71.240: In order: Obviously. But they're a large part of what makes PvE easy. Secondly: I see nothing that detracts from fun factor. Do you mind explaining that to me? Your speed boost gives 25% instead of 33%, so it's far less fun? Besides, most of PvE, as has been mentioned, is grind, which by definition isn't fun. Thirdly, no, that build is support and it owns every face in existence. Finally, as ip mentioned, yes, it is easy, and you only need to know a little bit about what you're doing to make it so.
 * -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 06:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, be proactive instead of destructive. I think this is what they call the "Generation I.D." (I Deserve). Be innovative and be challenged by the multiple new restrictions and buffs they put it. Who knows, you might actually find a new more fun (deep down inside me, I wanna say funner) build along the way. Renin 07:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Notice that the build you keep talking about uses multiple PvE-only skills and thus shouldn't be touched. PvE-only skills for the destruction of the game.  :(--71.240.80.160 15:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If they're there, use them. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 01:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I refuse to use the things that broke the game (consumables and PvE only skills). They're BROKEN and destroy the fun gameplay that existed before.  Not to mention, they eliminate half the fun of making builds (undeniably what Guild Wars' skill system was all about) because half of your skills are, if you allow PvE-only skills, dictated to you.  Unfortunately, they balanced hard mode and, more importantly later Nightfall and all of GWEN expecting you to use this crap, so they're nothing more than frustrating.  --71.240.80.160 15:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Why does everyone hate the PvE skills so much? Why do people whine about the pvx skills getting nerfed because of PvP, yet refuse to use the PvE-only skills because they are exactly what they wanted out of the pvx skills; godmode? Being too naïve can be hard on me at times >.< Silavor 20:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * We want balance, tbh. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 01:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And the PvE-only skills don't give balance because...? They're there presumably so that PvE players have skills they can use that will never be affected just because the meta shifts in PvP. Although it seems annoying and extremely outdated that we can only have 3 pve skills at once. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 03:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just don't whine why PvE skills are so over powered and that alot of pugs require you to have such and such PvE skills. If you really don't like them, then don't use them. Just don't go here complaining that no one ever wants to play with you because of the lack on your part of being flexible. Sure it destroys the fun and build-making so why not go to a guild that hates PvE skills? Play with them instead of annoying the hell out of us who like/tolerate them PvE skills. As a casual gamer, I like the fact that now I can use my assassin in PvE more than ever and that the consumables help this solo h/h-er when vanquishing or doing missions. There WILL always be good and bad whenever new things come out. That's just how it is. Leave us be and we'll leave you alone, whoever you are. Renin 09:17, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I, as you called it, "whine" because they made the normal game play blatently harder (to the NOT FUN levels) to compensate for having the "god" skills.  Observe GWEN.  It's that I cannot play the game without having to use those aweful skill that shouldn't exist.  They really should make them all normal skills with a normal power (and open them up to PvP too), and rebalance GWEN properly.  While there is a (very vocal) minority who always complains the game's too easy, that's never been true for most players.  And I don't recall ever asking for them to break the whole game so that "we" could have god-skills.  --136.142.163.55 17:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Hastes 2
Thanks for making AB suck less. --Tankity Tank 07:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I like how eles are getting a bit less stupidly awesome in AB with the shrine NPC buffs and the Djinn Hastes getting a bit of a slap. Doubt that was their intention with this balance, though.--Glenforder 08:10, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait wait...you think running around and capping shrines is all what AB is about? lol Lightblade 08:13, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's how you win in AB's Ajax Baby Eater 08:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh no...it's way more than that. There are times that you need to defend your shrine, capping more important shrines, and snare/delay some stupid team that only know to cap shrines.  Lightblade 09:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * AB is kind of a joke along with HB and The Jade Quarry. If Anet Cared about this game they would fix that stuff and buff and actually try and balance the game and make some classes (rit sin derv Mes) and attributes(Spawning power) lines more viable, and buff some of the old skills (CLEAVE)


 * Lol sin, derv, mes bad? Wtf are you talking about. Antiarchangel 21:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

25% Ele speed boost is ok, they are not melee to need more, 33% Ele speed boost was imba.Spaghetti 15:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Eles have had 33% since the very beginning. The need to stop to cast and susceptibility to strips was the balance. Rather than reducing the speed, Flame Djinn's should have returned to it's original duration.  I don't know what would have been better for Storm, but the cost seems disproportionately high there. --24.179.151.252 22:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I know what AB is about (capping alone does not a win make, but it's about 50% of the equation), but something with a maintainable speed boost as fast as your short boost which can cap shrines all by itself was insane. At least now you can get close enough to cripshot it.--Glenforder 21:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * People, Skill updates are not for things like AB, anet does not care about AB... its for REAL PvP like GvG... so stop whining about how imba AB is.. cause no1 that knows how to play the game likes AB...And glenforder capping makes you win. Charging into mobs to attempt to kill 1 monk, makes u lose(which u probably do while using frenzy+healsig)... Anet, Thanks for VoO nerf, 25% is fine i guess (thx for nerfing flaggers -_-) and DPS nerf was not needed. Watching an entire DpS'd team drop was fun. Power leak is balanced now.. Good job for once 24.141.45.72 22:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * cause no1 that knows how to play the game likes AB
 * That's a pretty stupid thing to say. I like AB because I can run old-school stuff like Blackout Rangers and still be more effective than just about anyone else on the field. --24.9.234.253 22:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

yeh man u cant just say ab is for noobs ab,FA and JQ are all basicly the same and are the only ways of getting faction without FFF and I mean that as in there all games where dying goes unpunished, little strategy is needed and theres no spikes or anything to worry about. I admit they take less skill but if ur in a high ranking guild faction wise and u like pvp ab and the others r ur only option EEDIT:(that is unless u wanna grind your head against slow turning sander that is FFF) --Destructos Maximus 23:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

According to comments on release of GW2, a sort of global pvp will be going on. Currently the closest thing resembling this is AB. Seeing this, and how people think AB is a joke, I'd say the main aspect of GW2 is not for you. As of now, AB is probably the easiest way for 'noobs' to pvp. They can join a group, and still have the possibility of winning, given they have a decent group. --Kyle van der Meer 15:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Me no likey :( 84.16.233.47 06:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hohoho...I'm looking forward to the return of Windborn Speed. Lightblade 07:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)