Talk:Sunspear rank

Progression research
At rank 8 I have a duration of 9 seconds for Seed of Life. -- Gordon Ecker 04:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm adding this cause the skill pages have lower numbers than what I have at max rank. If I find any other chars with different rank I'll add them.
 * At r10: 20 warrior, 25/3 ranger, 10 monk, 75 necro, 100 mesmer, 25% ele, 15/25 sin, 10/90/20/20 rit, 35/60 para, 100 derv.
 * At r9: 18 warrior, 24/3 ranger, 9 monk, 69 necro, 92 mesmer, 24 ele, 14/23 sin, 9/82/9/9 rit, 32%/55 para, 92 derv.
 * At r6: 14 warrior, 21/2 ranger, 8 monk, 57 necro, 76 mesmer, 21 ele, 11/19 sin, 6/66/16/16 rit, 27/44 para, 76 derv.
 * At r5: 12 warrior, 20/2 ranger, 7 monk, 51 necro, 68 mesmer, 20 ele, 10/17 sin, 5/58/15/15 rit, 24/38 para, 68 derv.
 * At r4: 11 warrior, 19/2 ranger, 7 monk, 48 necro, 64 mesmer, 19 ele. (ran out of hero points) - B e X  05:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC) Edited: 05:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you double-check the rank 9 mesmer? --Rezyk 05:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's definitely 92 damage. - B e X  05:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ahh, I see why..sneaky ArenaNet... --Rezyk 06:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Argh, you stopped right before giving me enough info to make a complete prediction! =) (I need either assassin or ritualist stats at rank 4) --Rezyk 15:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Assassin skill is 10/16 and rit skill is 5/54/14/14 at R4. --Dirigible 17:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

You can't buy skills before rank 1. - B e X  05:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Rank 10 seems to be 15 attrib - if the scaling's the same between all skills and Sunspear ranks, we can interpolate without having to strictly confirm all data. ~Seef II &lt;☎&gt; 08:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That would explain the uneven progression. I'm guessing the skills use a "virtual attribute" with a rank equal to 1.5*(title rank) before rounding or truncation, if this is correct then we should be able to find a formula to correctly interpolate the progression from the 0 and 10 values. -- Gordon Ecker 08:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Speculated formula
It looks very much like: VR = round(V0+floor(1.5*R)*(V10-V0)/15) where Vx is the value at Sunspear rank x with Gordon Ecker's guess being right on the money. The values in the update notes represent 0..8.

It likely cannot go lower than V10 for the top determining endpoint. V8 was looking okay for a while but got eliminated by assassin/ritualist rank 4 values.

This has some discrepancies with the empirical research: --Rezyk 19:19, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Seed of Life at rank 4 has been reported at values 6 and 7. I predict 7.
 * "There's Nothing to Fear!" has been filled in with 15 & 20 at rank 1. I predict 23 & 36 16 & 23.
 * "There's Nothing to Fear!" rank 5 healing 38 health? I predict 39.
 * 7 is correct.
 * No clue.
 * 39 is correct.
 * Good stuff. --Dirigible 19:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Testing with Signet of Illusions also supports the "virtual attribute" theory. I'll post the results soon. -- Gordon Ecker 08:38, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Here's the table. Intensity doesn't match up at title rank 9, but it otherwise fits. -- Gordon Ecker 09:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The Necrosis one isn't really fitting right is it? I'm levelling my Necro now so r1 and 2 are definitely the values I've added there. When I get r3 I'll add that too. - B e X  09:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Heroes and Sunspear rank linked to account
I'm not sure where I would state this, so i'm going to ask you. Would having Heroes and sunspear rank linked to the account instead of the character a good idea? I have 8 characters, all of them i've accomplished at least one campaign with. I find that I keep having to train new heroes over and over and over. With sunspear rank linked to account, veteran NF players wouldn't have to farm for sunspear points just to make use of these new skills. Luxon/Kurzick points are account based, and I find it works out better. Please make sure they don't change that. haha. I recently made a new Dervish, and i'm at the point where I have to level up my sunspear rank to get past the quest and move on to the next part of the game. I've reached 25,000 Sunspear points after countless LB and Sunspear farming runs, and I just dont want to have to go thru this again for each character to make their skill useful or get past the next part of the game. Please tell me what you think, and maybe forward this idea to devs if you think its a good idea =). Or not. haha. It's okay. 24.254.58.190 01:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sunspear is significantly easier to get than Allegiance. - B e X  02:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really. 400 Kurzick in 3 minutes on a solo luts run, ~1 minute on a 4-person luts... Sunspear requires (for the most irritating part of the grind, when characters aren't level 20 and haven't capped every elite) doing the same minute, irritating quests around Yohlon Haven over and over in order to continue the storyline. Heck, I've even started to memorize some of the lines because I've been forced to do them so much. I'm all for grinding when the rewards are nice, but when the reward is merely continuing on with more boring kourna-area missions... it just isn't worth it. - Auron 03:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sunspear is still easier to get for the average PvE player. You don't need a special build or have to wait around for a battle to start. My point though, is that if they were to make Sunspear account wide, they would have to make the requirements on par with Allegiance. - B e X  04:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Using Wurms your SS and LB points are maxable in a Day, making it for whole account would mean you have to get not 50k but maybe X times that, so getting to same on two characters will take X times longer. Besides, SS and LB sepose to be Personal accomplishments of individual character as getting "recognition" and LB points are requirement on Istan missions/quests making it account wide would change it to level requirements so you will be forced to have level 17 before you leave. Biz 05:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * My characters were always level 20 when leaving Istan anyhow. -Gildan Bladeborn 20:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Acquisition
These Sunspear skills are only available via hero skill trainers right? I wanted to add a note regarding this to each of the skill pages, but I'm not 100% sure. -- ab.er. rant  09:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well no, the Sunspear Rebirth Signet is the only sunspear skill which is available only through Runduk who is not a hero skill trainer. --Jamie [[Image:User Jamie.gif|(Talk Page)]] 09:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * He means the ones introduced in the update a week-ish back, and I believe he's correct. Armond 14:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I cannot get the trainers to give me the Cry of Pain. All they offer are the new Eye of the North stuff.  How to get them to give me the older Cry of Pain skill? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Mesmodeus Psi.


 * You can only get them from three specific hero skill trainers: Pikin in Kamadan, Shiloh in the Sunspear Great Hall and Libeh in the Command Post. There used to be a note about it, but it seems to have been lost due to an edit conflict, it's been re-added. -- Gordon Ecker 10:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Table & Notes
I think a lot of notes at the bottom of the page would be best included in the table as an extra column (bounties, quest, ...). I'm willing to do it if there's no objections. Alaris 19:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Anomality?
I may be wrong on this, but in actual navy rank, doesnt the capitan outrank the commander? if this is the case, shouldnt it be switched around in the sunspear rank? just a thought....
 * While true in naval ranks, other rank names are army ranks, with commander being the exception. In army ranks captain is lower (US Army Captain == US Navy Lieutenant, iirc).  --Valshia 00:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ahh, I did not know that. Thanks for clearing that up.

Error
Should I change the bottom comment saying the green numbers goes from 0-8 where it actualy goes from 0-10 134.198.8.162 18:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Changed. Thanks, good spot. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png|sig]] 02:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It was changed in the August 23rd update but we forgot to update this page. -- Gordon Ecker 05:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Does Sunspear tier level affect quest rewards?
I know that bounties can not be obtained in normal mode after attaining Sunspear tier 8, but is the same true for Sunspear points awarded as quest rewards? Kirbett 01:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no restrictions, other than the normal ones (non-Elonain char, mutual-exclusive quests, etc). --8765 02:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Once you've accepted a quest, all of its rewards are always received once you complete it. The bounties restriction is only to deter high-level characters from farming low-level areas. -- ab.er. rant [[Image:User Ab.er.rant Sig.png| ]] 14:36, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

What rank to place in the HoM?
What rank do you have to be to place this title in the HoM-- Unending fear   02:31, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I followed your HoM link, and found that according to the Honor page, you need max rank. That would be Legendary Spearmarshal. 76.30.79.54 03:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, opps. Thanks anyways :)-- Unending fear  [[Image:User Unendingfear Crane.jpg|19px]] 03:24, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Aquisition problem
I had a Factions character level 20 Who had not achieved sunspear rank 1 (I wanted Vampirism skill for rit) so I went outside Kamadan in NM and talked to the scout. But I was told I was too great a hero... is there a level restriction as well as a rank restriction to taking the bountys? Comming back out in Hard Mode allowed me to get the Bounty and I quickly attained Sunspear 1 for the skill MrPaladin talk 17:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hm, there's some information on this in the talk page at Bounty at least. This is something I feel I've known about for a while. I thought wa had a chart on it but maybe that was on guildwiki. I think the cap is level ten for Plains of Jarin in normal mode, it may be higher or non-existant in the farther parts of Istan like ... wherever the treausres are, names elude me.
 * I do know that my Elonan characters often outlevel Jarin before they leave Istan, I think ... --Star Weaver 17:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok seems like the tables on the bounty page need to reflect some level cap also... tho I donno what these levels are. MrPaladin talk 18:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Based on the brief testing I did before all my characters' sunspear ranks were too high to get normal mode bounties anywhere in Istan, it seems that you can only get the bounty in zones where there are appropriate foes who will yield experience. For example, in Issnur Isles, the highest level Insect Hunt targets are level 15 Stalking Nephilas, while the highest level Skale Hunt targets (other than the quest boss Moa'vu'Kaal) are level 14 Frigid Skales, at level 20, monsters must be level 15 or higher to yield experience. When I did testing with a level 20 character, I could get Insect Hunt, but not Skale Hunt, while I was unable to get Insect Hunt in lower level Istan zones. I don't know if quest NPCs or bosses affect bounty availability. If my conclusion is correct, we'd need to list maximum levels separately for each zone, which may be more appropriate to do in the individual zone articles. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The fastest way for a level 20 foreign character to get Sunspear points in Istan in Normal Mode is the non-repeatable A Land of Heroes quest. You'll get two 4 point bounties which cover everything you fight during the quest. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Large Discrepancy?
Why does it shoot from 15k needed for rank 9 to 50k for rank 10? I mean, every other title rises at a steady pace, but for Sunspear there is a large jump from 9 to 10, and it seems a bit much for 2 more points of effectiveness for skills. Was there originally planned to be 12 ranks and they cut two, or what is the deal here? Lynx Raven Raide 21:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When Nightfall was released, the title only had 9 ranks and the only Sunspear skill was Sunspear Rebirth Signet. The February 14th, 2007 update added the 10th rank, which required 30,000 points. In the April 19th, 2007 update, which also added hard mode, the point requirement was raised to 50,000. By the way, rank 8 requires 3 times as many total points as rank 7. -- [[Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png]] Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sunspear ranks and benefits
Aquisition of the Sunspear Rebirth Signet: The rank needed for non-Elona chars ist listed as Second Spear (rank 3) here but as First Spear (rank 4) on the Sunspear Rebirth Signet page. Which version is the correct one?85.182.9.177 10:56, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I can get it on my factions monk at rank 3 (but don't see any reason to). 98.23.140.91 02:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Started at Rank 5?
I took my long time Proph and EotN character to Kourna for the first time a week ago. As soon as I landed on the shores, I seemed to have a Rank(5) already. How is this possible? I just bought Nightfall so I'm very confused. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:67.174.66.17 (talk).
 * Please sign, and you do LOADS of things that grant Sunspear points between Arrival at the Istan and Kourna--Lord Randy 05:58, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, A Land of Heroes, and other quests bring you're Sunspear Rank up quickly. Also, you may have taken bounties which give Sunspear points. &mdash; [[Image:User Balistic Pve Sig.png|19px]] Balistic 06:06, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Rank 11 ?
The skills that are linked to this rank all (?) show values for rank 11. How is this possible?--Cyberman 17:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

signet of illusions 206.116.32.218 20:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Dajkah Inlet
The challenge mission at Dajkah Inlet rewards 50 Sunspear points for killing each Corsair Guild Lord. This would be a really awful way to farm Sunspear points since a single pass through all three maps takes an average player like me about 15 minutes and will only return 250 points, but I think it should at least be included in the article under Acquisition. - Beporter 02:23, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No feedback since May (I forgot about it too!) so I added it under acquisition. - Beporter 15:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well... Could add something about hero armor in 's 74.138.31.170

This of any use?


Thought it was interesting ~Nelson (n122333)   19:22, 27 May 2011  (UTC).


 * It's worth having posted here on the talk page; I don't think it needs to be in the main article: almost every title shows exponential growth in requirements (i.e. the last rank usually takes as many points as all the previous ranks put together). — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:33, 27 May 2011 (UTC)