Talk:Fort Aspenwood/Archive3

turtle removes enchantments!
Yeah, I know that is an anti-bonder measure that turtles can now remove enchantments, but that is very unbalanced and not fair for other characters that have no monk enchantments [such as eles, derv, necros, etc...] if an ele attument needs 45 secs for recharging and the turtle removes an enchantment each 10 seconds, in less than 20 seconds the ele will not have any form of reduced energy cost. so that is unbalanced. even working with glyph of lesser energy, the ele could be with no energy in less than 45 sec. and cannot be healed with aura of restoration because that too is removed. Necros that only have Hexer's Vigor, for healing, close to a turtle will be lost... and it is not possible to get away from a turtle attack, interrupt the turtle or hide anywhere... so I think that A-Net must nerf in some considerations about removing enchantments of turtles. --208.104.132.121 00:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The buffs to the turtle attacks were so people wouldn't prot-camp gate NPCs or just camp the turtle itself. Perhaps you should run a build not so reliant upon enchantments?--[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 01:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's monks completely shit, eh. Almost every build in gws is now fucked. gg
 * i know, why should it effect all enchantments when monk prot was the problem? Not only was every proffesion that used enchantment effectd, but now the elementalist gate guard's silver armor is useless with the turtles, and even the intent of striping monk enchantments, the gatekeeper's protective spirit can't protect gunther like they originally should, and contrary to belief it doesn't/didn't take much for the luxon to win a match, just a high amount of damage + anti prot skills, and your at gunther in no time--Metal Sazz 23:37, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa whoa whoa...since when did this happen? Are they MAD? No wonder the turtles killed Gunther so easily. Can anyone give me a link to the update? Done25 17:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nvm. Found it at http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20081211
 * They just remove one enchantment. Nothing to whine about.--ShadowFog 19:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Basic PvP AND PvE tactics: bring a cover enchantment. Holy God, I can't understand how that was so difficult to think of. Protective Spirit still works. Just cast something like Patient Spirit after it. Bam. Turtle buff may as well not have happened. 58.106.44.4 05:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Remember your audience. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  08:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

cover enchantments doens't work because turtle removes a random enchantment. --208.104.132.121 05:37, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * not to mention these damn turtles remove the enchantments BEFORE they proc, so if you're even a split second late to cover that protective spirit, BOOM the npc's dead and you just wasted 10E. GG.
 * "cover enchantments doens't work because turtle removes a random enchantment." No it doesn't. Know what you're talking about before you QQ. The reason for this buff on turtles were bonders, and the arena is still in favor of the Kurzicks. So fail less, GG. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  14:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bonders and because it's a random arena. No organize team whatsoever.--ShadowFog 14:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and guess what? As a Kurzick, it's still easy to bond. Prot Spirit -> Guardian, and even Orison can heal any damage they'll take. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  15:41, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * lol@people who think the ele's Sliver Armor is useless now. If an ele that already cast SA gets hit by a siege attack, they are dead anyways unless being bonded (not to mention, they already have enough anti-melee). On a side note, making the turtles remove only monk enchants would not stop terra tanks from stalling the turtles indefinitely, just like they used to do. <>Sparky, the Tainted 16:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Nerf these #$@%ing Turtles!!!
These things are just ridiculous and they are ruining FA. If the luxons aren't good enough or smart enough to win on their own merits then to hell with them. These turtles are the epitome of ANET catering to the cry babies and whiners. "OHH ANET, the Kurzicks are bonding Gunther and we can't win, DO SOMETHING!", so instead of suggesting that they bring enchantment removal themselves, we'll hold your hand and add enchantment removal to the gigantic, 300 damage rock slinging behemoths that have 4 bodyguards following them around. What about our Juggernauts? When were they buffed last? Why special abilities do they have other than the pathetic +1 energy regen that you have to be standing on their shoulder to get or the super cool ability of being slow and dying alot? FA's problem is not damage output or enchantment removal, it's the fact the Luxons take so long to walk from spawn to the inner gates, if you want to fix FA add some teleporters or something. I'm playing PvP because I want to fight PEOPLE, not 2 super overpowered siege turtle NPC's and their entourage of knockdown warriors. Being a mesmer, these attacks, specfically two of them at once, kill me 98% of the time, hardly does another player ever kill me. If I don't want to die every time I get within a 5 mile radius of a turtle I have to bring an anti-turtle build, which defeats the whole purpose of being in PvP to begin with because now I am effectivly playing PvE. This is stupid. The luxons are terrible at PvP, they can't win in FA unless the turtles do it for them, they can't win in Jade Quarry unless half our team is leeching and they only win about 50% of the time in AB, stop holding their hand ANET and force them to get better on their own instead of doing it for them.
 * Learn to deal with the turtles. There are easy ways to kill them, they are slow and stupid. There is such a thing as amber, it repairs gates and makes the Luxons walk farther. Use the amber and mines to your advantage. Don't go whining "OHH ANET, things are finally forcing us to play Fort Aspenwood the way it was supposed to be played and we can't win, DO SOMETHING!" If you've noticed, removing ONE enchantment does not destroy everything and everyone, simply now requires that you LEAVE the base to get amber, oh no! Juggernauts may be a little weak, but if they were any stronger, monks would just heal them for an easy win. Kurzicks were able to win on the backs of one or two players, that was unbalanced. Playing the Luxon side still requires all the players, and it rarely wins with even one leecher. <>Sparky, the Tainted 03:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * trolls trolling trolls --Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Circular logic is circular. You are failing to realize the point I am making. The point I am making is that this is a PvP area and most of the fighting is done against NPC's. This is pointless and unnecessary and it is, in itself, unbalancing the arena in the wrong direction.  If they merely added teleporters to the front line for Luxons, the only NPC fighting that would take place are the gate guards, which can be easily taken out by a single nuker in under 5 seconds.  As it is now, it is an NPC battle.  Luxons killing gate guards, Kurzicks healing them, Kurzicks killing turtles and Luxons healing them all the while ignoring each other.  With the teleporters, the Luxons would not have to rely soley on turtles but the turtles would be what they should be, back support, not a panzer tank cutting through a mass of infantry.  Let people fight people, not NPC's fighting NPC's. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Old Man of Ascalon (talk).
 * If they change the turtles back to what it was, then it will be Spell Breakers monks and one ranger stopping the turtle all over again.--ShadowFog 05:00, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The luxons are terrible at PvP, they can't win in FA unless the turtles do it for them Like I said I am making a Luxon Tribute cuz they own so much!! monk using spoil victor, derv with full ele bar, warr with 5 heals, CANT WAIT to compose it. If you do not know luxon do this, then you must not play FA.Ridz16 02:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you please repeat that, perhaps in English this time? --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 02:14, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't need to be change back comletely, just have it so it only effects monk enchantment, the hard to interrupt can stay, but the damage from the seige attack is alittle high considering it strips enchantments and is aoe, --64.229.76.72 03:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The strip enchant effect is also deadly if it takes a vital enchant away from you because you dont have room for a cover on your bar. (Critical Defenses anyone?) Done25 03:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop being bad. Normally sins will have res sig on their bar, so there is no excuse not to have a slot for a fast recharge cover enchant.Pika Fan 03:29, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Who uses a res sig in Fort Aspen? Done25 20:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sarcastically everyone does. In reality, no one equips a res signet in FA.--ShadowFog 20:59, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going Luxion I swear it. I am tired of getting hit for 250 damage then getting spammed by a 100 damage teleport every time I try to run amber past the turtle or better yet getting chased by it demented guards. We get what? A mentally retarded tree thing thats even slower than the turtles and has usless skills. Done25 19:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I know right? I normally play mesmer and the attacks do nearly 270 damage to me.  If both turtles are in the base I nearly get instantly killed and normally there is some luxon ranger standing nearby to finish you off and brag about he PWN'D THE STUPID KURDICK, even though he only did 15 damage and the turtles did the other 540.  Stupid turtles are overpowered because the luxons fail at winning on their own, they need panzer tanks to do the hard work for them.Old Man Of Ascalon 00:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone actually SEEN the Juggernaut kill anything? He moves so slow that a crippled player can kite him and by the time he gets to one turtle the other one has already killed the gate guards again (Since the Turtle launch range is so big they can kill the gate without coming near him. So the only way to get him to "help" is to rebuild green.)
 * Yeah, the juggernaut's pretty useless. I think he exists to get a bunch of prots put on him since he's level 28 and has decent armor.  When he does get to a turtle, though, it usually ends badly for the turtle unless it's getting healed or has some of its warriors left.  Personally, I preferred FA before these two updates, when the timer took longer to fill and the turtles couldn't remove enchantments.  But I guess this new version is here to stay.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 17:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No need for turtle nerfs. Most of the time Luxons don't know what they are doing and Kuzicks can still win this easier than Luxons, it is just a matter of playing good.--Wealedout 14:46, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Turtles are fine, the last few matches ive played [lux] the people on the left didnt even deploy the turtle (q.q) . Ive seen many times when kurzick healers can still hold the gate for a long time even with the enchant removal. on the topic of the juggernaut - imo its ment to be a heavy armor/high HP NPC and not ment for killing. He can hold green gate shut for a long time if kurzicks can heal him (which they usually do). Sweet Escape 02:12, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * At all the Kurzicks:

 Cover Enchantment : bonders have plenty of this doesn't matter  anything under 8 seconds 

The next time target ally would lose an enchantment, they don't.

Concise Description: Cover enchantment.  Gah   01:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I find it funny that people are complaining that turtles strip ONE enchant, but are completely ok with bonders locking down gates solo which direcly resulted in this change. A lone turtle still can't take a gate if a decent bonder is holding it without either a load of DPS or enchant stripping from a player.  The problem is that most people can't solo turtles now (despite the fact that they are obviously meant to require teamwork to beat).  I have a bitch of a time dealing with the Me mobs, but you don't see me crying for their interrupts to be removed.  This isn't a game-breaking problem like the situation that caused this change, so learn to use cover enchants like you would in real PvP.  It's not difficult and will actually help you later on in your PvP.--Robbox 19:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Cover enchants are nice and all, but having a HUGE ASS splash radius and stripping an enchant from EVERYTHING it hits is way too fucking imba, dont you think? Also why does it have to strip every type of enchant? Why not just monk enchants since they were the original problem anyways? Now Ele's and dervs get screwed also? WTF Anet? Also why the hell do luxons get buff after buff but kurz get hit with nerf after nerf? And no, the reduced timer doesn't count. Luxons only had to win a match while kurz had to hold out for ~20 minutes. Luxon faction > kurzick faction before the change. Now it's relatively balanced, EXCEPT THESE GOD DAMN TURTLES
 * Please fail less. I don't care if I'm violating NPA, but anyone who thinks this arena is balanced or in favor of the Luxons is a total idiot. I've played both sides, and now play Kurzick because it's way easier. All you have to do is hold out for 10 minutes, and when you run amber, not even that - it's closer to 6 or 7. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  14:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You know, every luxon keeps saying "kurzicks have the advantage" but I have yet to see a real sound argument other than petty theory-crafting of "oh kurzicks can do this", or "kurzicks can do that". If kurzicks can think of so many strategies, why can't luxons think of something on their own to counter them? Now on kurzick side, they have to actually do everything on their own without relying on their useless npc's. You already have your uber powered turtles and goon squad, what else do you want? Maybe you guys should try bringing a real build instead of SS monks, defy pain wammos, and fire dervs, hmm?
 * I am Kurzick, and I know it's imba. I want it to actually require skill to win. If you can't win like 4/5 of your games on Kurzick side, you fail. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  14:14, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I am Kurzick but play a lot on luxon side, and in my experience, Luxon is a lot harder. In simple terms, luxons need to run further than kurzicks when the fight gets to green/chamber; 30 seconds or so vs 10 seconds including respawn time for kurzicks. Secondly, luxons need to do more than be just as good, they need to kill npc's while getting battered. If every kurzick counters one luxon, luxons get nowhere. Third, try killing gunther or the juggernaut while three monks/rits are healing it. Killing them hardly works, because by the time you killed all three, the first is already back with full energy. Fourth, many players just go there for PvP. While both sides are equally affected, kurzicks need to kill luxon players anyway; luxons need to kill NPCs, thus are badly harmed by it (though one may argue this is player 'skill'). As for turtle damage, it hurts and the enchant strip is a bit bad as it also affects non-healers while barely touching a bonder (especially AirOfEnchantment bonders). But turtles rarely touch the green gate let alone gunther, and are easily stalled by a kurzick teleporting out of the base. Mantra of Earth supposedly reduces the damage a lot as well. They also die very fast unless they are healed well (and even with healer they can be taken out quite well). Their DPS isn't that impressive either considering extremely slow fire rate. Just a few reasons why I find kurzick games easier. Admittedly, I win a lot of games on luxon side anyway, but if there are 3 kurzick healers or more it gets almost impossible. Especially if one has PnH, meaning hexes (including most anti-healer skills) get pretty useless. All in all, turtles are mainly intimidating. In 10 seconds you're killing again and have full energy. But try both sides and decide for yourself I'd say. --Tenshi Samshel 15:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Back three shrines
Does anyone other than me feel as though there is no point for the Kurzicks to try and cap the back three mines? (Refined and the 2 command points). Not only is it much harder for them to spike down the monk (vs. the ele that spawns for them) but refined amber is largely worthless since it dosen't repair 2 gates making it just a harder to get raw amber. And the Luxions only need to cap the command points for 1 second for the turtles to spawn combined with the 4 seconds it takes to spike your useless ranger/necro team combo (vs the 10-30 seconds it takes to kill their monk/ranger combo) you just stalled them for FIVE SECONDS. It takes about 10 seconds to break a door down. 5 < 10. Go run some raw amber. Honestly since Luxion NPCs are so much better than the Kurzick ones I really don't see the point of trying to cap a shrine that offers you no benefit other than the fact that the Luxions don't get it. Now if you gained a temporary 5% morale boost per command point for as long as you held it and you got 10% completion for a refined amber they might be worth capping. But as is I find them rather usless....anyone agree? Done25 03:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Arcane echo + RoJ + Inspired/revealed enchant + a variety of other signets > monk shrines. If luxons have to waste valuable time trying to cap back their shrines(for turtles) and walk all the way back after ressing, you can run amber and stall for time until the game ends. That's the strategy to win in matches without healers.Pika Fan 03:30, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * They're useless for the Kurzicks unless you're already winning by such a remarkable margin that you can just take your sweet time running refined amber to Gunther. With that said, before PvP-only characters were permitted at FA, Kurzicks were usually fighting Luxons out in the open, not inside the fort itself.  Which was much more fun.  I guess they all got lazy though.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not if you bring a speed boost and run amber. If you are unable to contribute to 1)killing turtles and warriors 2)killing players 3)keeping npcs and players up, run amber. Pika Fan 04:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In Competetive Missions/AB, I find lolstomping the other team to be much more effective than any kind of strategy. On a related note, I like water eles.  I mean, being dead kinds shoots strategy to hell.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  08:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * i liek holing shinee staf. eets sho preety en i liek eet.Pika Fan 09:02, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I prefer to camp them at their base and gank them (In JQ, I stand on the yellow port with a palm strike sin). Let the other teams cap at their leisure; no one's getting out.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  10:14, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

@Pika Fan - Thing is it's much faster and safer to run raw amber because it is much closer to your base. I think it takes about 70% more time to run refined that it does raw. Combine that with the time it takes to cap the shrine and it's more effective to just ignore the refined amber. After all its only 4% vs the 2% raw gives you. Especially when 99% of the amber goes to repairing the gates anyways. Done25 18:49, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be dumb, nobody(in the right mind) clears the 3 shrines at the back just to run refined amber, you do that so as to 1) make luxons resurrect allll the way back 2) prevent turtles from spawning. And if you bring aecho RoJ, combine it with a few signets and inspired/revealed enchantment(for speedy enchantment removal), you clear the shrines really fast.Pika Fan 19:49, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If the Luxon team is bad enough to lose all five shrines at once, it's better to just run the refined amber. :|  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 20:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Cheating in Fort Aspenwood
Cheating in Fort Aspenwood

Necromancer/Mesmer goes to the Kurzick side and presses Enter Battle with the following Skillbar

Aura of the Lich, Arcane Echo, Blood of the Master, Blood Renewal, (bla bla Blood sacrifices for the rest)

Stand right beside Gatekeeper Poletski and cast Arcane Echo, followed by Aura of the Lich twice, you will have 2 minions. Continue this process until you have 10 Bone Horrors, healing them with Blood of the Master as necessary. Notice that Gatekeeper Poletski will use Jaimei's Gaze on you when you sacrifice blood. Once you have 10 minions and nobody else is inside Green Gate, get out of Poletski's range and use all the possible blood sacrifices on your skillbar until you die. Alternatively, you can go outside to collect minions, then go in Green and blood sacrifice yourself in front of Gunther.

Result: 10 grey Bone Horrors(or other minions) kill Poletski, Radik and Gunther. Luxon Win! If it didn't work because some ally came and killed the grey minions, just repeat the process. Afterall, you have the whole match to get grey minions to kill Gunther =D

Ranger/Necro with Skillbar Edge of Extinction (lots of Blood Sacrifice) Consider bringing Nature's Renewal

Use Edge of Extinction, then blood sacrifice to death to inflict damage to all your team. Cast Nature's Renewal so that Monks and Dervishes start crying that they can't play. Repeat as necessary to pressure your team and damage them, they can't do anything to you nor to your spirits! They are target allies. =D Elementalist/Mesmer puts 16 points in Earth Magic and brings Arcane Echo, Echo, Iron Mist, Enter on Kurzick side and make sure to maintain Iron Mist on Siege Turtles once they reach the Green Gate(meaning they will not walk more inside anymore). Kurzicks with no Lightning attacks cannot damage the already difficult to kill Siege Turtles, Luxons win =D (Enter on Luxon side and make sure to maintain Iron Mist on the Juggernaut. Luxons cannot break green gate, Kurzick win =D)

This shows the many flaws(bugs?) of some skills in Fort Aspenwood. Hopefully, ArenaNet will do something about it.
 * Anet doesn't care about the game anymore. As for the first suggestion, also bring Death Nova to cast on minions. Not that I support this in any way. -- [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Vow of Silence Gah Sig.jpg]] Gah  01:11, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Second suggestion could benefit from Rotting Flesh. --76.25.197.215 01:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Third suggestion - type /report - and report anyone who does this as its a brech of some terms and conditions you sign when you install the game - but in reality its not a problem. Iron mist seriously slows down the turtle (target) and it will prob kill you anyway so thats kinda dumb. As for Spirits they effect both sides and Edge of Extinction is hardly a problem as you need to be sub 90% health and even then you take a small bit of damage. Spirit spamming is not cheating its commonly used to help your team win. But in general things like a player leeching is far more of a problem than any of this. Xiay 12:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice suggestion, except /report fails. Hard.

I think that is a problem when there are more cases in this months, specially about that mm that kill to gatekeepers and gunther. just names : "my name is karka", "Kurzlck Necromancer"[CIDE]and anothers. It is better guys that nerft aura of lich for pvp and EoE. yeah I know.. send letters to Anet... we did... but when they are going to solution that problem? ... yeah... take is time.. etc. yeah bring skills against mm... (that is not a really solution if the problem continues. yeah, uninstall the program, but a lot of people love to play GA. yeah ,report them... it is not working such anet expected --208.104.132.121 05:16, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sent a few letters to Gaile around a month or two ago about this. Nothing has been done, sadly (and expectedly). -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  20:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The more a game gives you freedom, the more it can be exploited. You cant kill one aspect without harming the other. Yseron - 90.15.58.150 21:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You cant kill one aspect without harming the other. Yes you can. Fix the exploits - anyone who does it gets banned. Fixed, no loss of freedom. Is it really that f***ing hard? -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  02:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

NPC's
Why are all the Kurzick NPC's so much better than the Luxon ones? The Luxons get Rangers, the Kurzicks get Spirt Spammers... Ele's and Necros are better than 2 rangers and an Ele. Not to mention, the Kurzicks can continue teleporting to the mines even after the fighting has moved to the blue base, while the Luxon's can't. FA is really IMBA... Mr.Hobo 21:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait...what? Spirit spammers suck when they summon the same spirit at the same time. And the Kurz Hero unit bites vs. the Luxions two Hero units. Also Luxions can use the teles too. And how is an ele better than a ranger? Your post has no logic. (That or I need to go to bed) Done25 04:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's pretty sad, Mr.Hobo. Let me guess, you play a defy pain wammo don't you? Try using some nukes next time.
 * FA is imba, but not because of NPCs. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  16:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bit late, but: Ele's are better than Rangers when the Ranger builds lack Elite skills and attributes. Luxon Longbow is where you can see what skills the Rangers get... the Kurzicks get Rits that, while lacking elites, have a melee block and great attributes.  Ele's get Unsteady Ground, which is very effective against anyone trying to follow runners.  Nukes are fine against Rits, so long as NO Kurzicks are on the walls to interrupt you. Mr.Hobo 00:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Mr.Hobo, sounds like you're having a hard time killing the Kurz NPC's(lol). Seriously, just bring some AoE's and problem's solved. The Eles, Rits, and Necs are all about anti-melee (even though the Ele's Sliver Armor is now useless thanks to the turtles enchant stripping). Therefore you shouldn't be bringing melee as a Luxon here, that's like being a dead weight to your team. Also, the Luxon Rangers are there to cripple amber runners, not to go pew pew on them. And finally, if you want to compare skillsets, have you noticed that the kurz juggernaut has no useful skills whatsoever? Also the gatekeepers have no elites either; they can't even heal themselves. I also like how you didn't mention that the goon squad can synch their Cowards in perfect succession. Hmmm... 205.206.134.16 05:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Classes
Since there are so many complete idiots here, let me break down the classes for you, into good and bad for FA:

Good

 * Healer or smiter monks
 * Healer, damage, or hybrid rits
 * Ranged rangers
 * Casters

Bad

 * Any melee
 * Prot monks, while not entirely bad, are redundant.
 * Paragons suck at PvP

Good

 * Healer or protection monks
 * Healer or hybrid rits
 * Any form of good ranger (excluding melee besides scythe)
 * Casters
 * Anything with a scythe... besides paragons and casters

Bad

 * Smiting monks
 * Pure damage rits
 * Paragons

Just basics, I don't expect anyone to actually care. But who knows, it might help someone. --''' Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 03:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Although Paragon is one of my favorite class, yes it's true, I dont use Paragon for FA nor JQ, just in organized arenas like AB and the likes. The Bad list that states that melee is bad, I totally agree on it unless you are an assassin with unblockable skills or assassin caster build, almost everyone brings melee hate. From weakness, blind, cripple to hexes and enchant. The rest of the list pretty much is same feeling.--ShadowFog 05:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I list melee as bad for Luxons not because of what players will carry, but because almost all the NPCs are anti-melee oriented. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  20:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

You reading this noobs,melee are b.a.d. for luxons stop it with your naruto shit. Also, since Guild Wars is available for steam service, we have received an injection of noobs especially ninjas, I mean, assassins and kurzick sword warriors that think they can win against any prepared necro. Samurais,I mean, sword warriors suck at this map especially if you are a ronin, I mean, kurzick sword warrior...noobs --Wealedout 14:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Amber
Don't run refined amber, for one thing. You shouldn't even be capping Luxon back posts unless their team is terrible. Besides, refined amber takes about twice as long to get back to the base as raw amber does. Secondly, statistics:
 * 1) Amber given to Gunther forwards the timer by 2%, or 12 seconds.
 * 2) Amber given to Gatekeepers will repair gates.

One might think that giving amber to Gunther is best, as the gates are pretty fragile. However, giving amber to the gatekeepers, purely in the sense of giving you the best chance of winning, is better, as the gates will usually last longer than 12 seconds and can kill enemies.

Just my 10 cents. --''' Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 22:17, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that is, unless you can get 6+ amber over the course of the game, which many can easily do. Then I'd recommend just giving it to Gunther unless Green is down or about to go down. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  20:46, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Continuing the string of bad management decisions regarding Fort Aspenwood...

 * You can feel free to create a suggestion page in your userspace and link it to ArenaNet:Suggestions. Otherwise it is unlikely your suggestion will be seen by anyone. This talk page is for the purpose of discussing the contents of the article, not posting suggestions, or your complaints. Thanks! --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 01:57, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, Wyn, it's pretty unlikely that my complaints suggestions will be read anyway. ArenaNet didn't even read the suggestions when they were all compiled together. But I'll keep my flaming off this page. -- Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  21:45, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

???
I was playing my ele on kurz side FA, and was killing the turtle with single-target damage. I was the only one around, kurzick or luxon, npc or player, besides the turtle squad. After I killed the turtle, the warriors came after me. I ran under the bridge and they got stuck on a corner, staying there at full health for about five seconds. Then they all simultaneously died. It wasn't the first time - it had happened before with three warriors, but I thought that I had just lagged. Is this a bug, or a preventative measure installed by ANet to help turtle squads respawn if the warriors get stuck? Anyway, going to mark it as a bug for now. --''' <font color="Black">Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 16:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

For the last time...
Kurzicks (I am one, so stfu with w/e comment you were about to make), SHUT UP. You don't want ANet to take away your easy win, and I understand that - who doesn't like winning, right? But stop spouting nonsense about this mission being in favor of the Luxons, and stop saying that we win because they have bad bars - we have just as many smite paragons and fire dervishes on the Kurzick side. The arena ITSELF is inherently imbalanced. Stop moaning about the turtles and read up on what CAUSED this change. Read the update where ArenaNet knocked 5 minutes off Gods' Vengeance, maybe? But please, stop crying about how "unfair" it is that the turtles strip enchants, and oh my god they do soooo much damage, and completely ignore the fact that we still easily win 4 out of 5 games, usually more. So please just stfu and go cry in game or something. Everyone knows that this is skewed in favor of the Kurzicks, so just stop.

GTFO,

--''' <font color="Black">Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 19:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The Number of Matches
Quote from Notes "There is a rumor that there is a hard cap on the number of Fort Aspenwood matches which can occur simultaneously. This is false, new matches will start as long as each side has enough players in the queue to form a full team."

My Claim: The number of matches that can occur simultaneously is TWO. Except during 'Double Factions Weekend for Competitive Missions'.

Proof tested by Guild:(And you may try it out yourself with your own guild)

1. Take 24 people to Fort Aspenwood Kurzick, Take 24 people to Fort Aspenwood Luxon(total 48). All from the same guild and have guild chat on. Make sure to note the names of your guild members.

2. Synchronize(more details below) and press 'Enter Battle' at the same time.

3. Ask everyone in guild chat who is with who in a match, and note their names down in a table as Match1/Match2/Match3, and Kurzick/Luxon. Also note down if there are exterior people(not from the guild) in a certain match.

Explanations: Synchronizing = Most people know, that if you press the 'Enter Battle' button at the same time, you have great chances of entering the same match. Just count 1 2 3 in guild chat and everyone presses enter battle on 3. Given 24 players on each side, according to the notes, we HAVE enough people entering on each side for at LEAST 3 Matches. This is excluding people NOT from the guild who are also entering matches.

Results: 13 out of 24 were left out(stayed in outpost)without match on Kurzick side, only 11 successfully entered scattered in two simultaneous matches

12 out of 24 were left out(stayed in outpost)without match on Luxon side, only 12 successfully entered scattered in two simultaneous matches

Yes, the same people who entered the two matches were pitted against each other respectively. They were not facing 'full 8 opponents in which no guild member was in'. By this, it means that there was no 3rd match.

Questions: Why was there 13 Kurzicks and 12 Luxons remained waiting with the Timer on, when there are enough of them for a 3rd match? Because the amount of simultaneous matches is 2. Note that we also have outsider people entering, which means there should be enough for even a 4th match.

How about if there was a 3rd match with only outsider players(not from the guild)? Very unlikely. But then there is no 4th match even with 8+ Kurzicks and 8+ Luxons waiting, which contradicts what the note says about new matches starting if there are enough players.

Note: This applies to everyday Fort Aspenwood only, not Double Factions from Competitive Missions Weekend. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.136.67.234 (talk).


 * Well, yes, of course. How could servers not affect the number of matches that can occur? If you go to each side, you'll still see plenty of people on both. In reality, you don't even have to check Kurzick side, because there will always be plenty there. All existing evidence points to this claim being false, so either Gaile was misinformed or they've reduced servers since she made that claim. -- <font color="Black">Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  15:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

You can't know every limiting factors that prevented syncers from same guilds from getting a game in FA and thus you can't conclude total matches cap is 2 from a single test. We all agree that such a 2 matches cap would be ridiculous. Have you even considered some anti-sync filters ?! This might be one of reason (among others, like bug or unknown reasons), you couldn't get a match. Elephant 10:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

There is no such thing as anti-sync filters, since 8 people from the same guild can get in the SAME match if they sync(what filter? they all got in the same match). In addition, some math for you: there were 12 Luxon(who were from the same guild) who did not get a match. Because Luxon players are quite few, let's calculate the chance that 8 other players got in a 3rd match(8 players not from the guild). Note: if there are 20 players total on Luxon side and all are entering, and 12 of them are from the same guild, the probability of selecting a specific 8(not from the guild) out of the 20 is 1/(20!/(8! * 12!)) = 1/479001600. What are the chances of that happening? Also need to multiply by the probability number that 13 players of the same guild do not figure in the Kurzicks side, but since Kurzick side has a lot of players, let's assume the number is about 1/3(that of 13 out of X players, none of the 13 get in a match) which will make you number ~1/1000000000. Now, repeat the experiment(and as said above, plz TRY it yourself) to the slightest chance of 1/1000000000. There are only 2 matches that can occur simultaneously, if you don't believe it, then try it yourself. Even if we assume there was a 3rd match, how come there was no 4th match? Would you be assuming that ANet specifically coded that a 3rd match cannot occur with players of the same guild vs players of the same guild? /laugh. Besides, that's not even the case here, other players are also entering and we could have a mixed 3rd match. TRY it yourself, you cannot claim otherwise unless you yourself prove you can have 3 matches(good luck, i know you wont get 3, dont worry). --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.136.67.234 (talk).

plz sign

I am not going to test I am sure you did it well. I have no time to do this but maybe others would like to test aswell. What I am saying is that if they say there is no harcoded cap to 2 matches, well there is no such a cap. In in other hand, if you find a specific configuration where you can get only two matches at same time (let's say a temporarly virtual cap, then!), and can repeat this, then you probably found a bug and should fill a bug report (giving only facts, no maths and else to prove you theory, just hypothesis and results...). Cheers Elephant 11:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * @72.136.67.234: What happened after said players didn't get into their 3rd match? --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 03:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, maybe only two instances (servers is a stupid name) are made for the American Districts, only two for the European English, only two for the European German....you get my drift. -- Arduinna [[Image:User_Arduinna_Companionship.jpg|15px|talk]] 11:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

PvP-only skills
Well, the thing is: the other day when i was doing FA i was hit by an NPC and a real player with the same attack (Sundering Attack). Now, on my damage monitor it said i took dmg from 'Sundering Attack' and 'Sundering Attack (PvP)'. So i guess the PvP version was dealt by the real player, so NPCs don't use the PvP version of skills. Maybe add to notes or bugs? -- Chan, 23:09 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have heard that the Master of Lightning uses the PvE version of Lightning Orb (that causes cracked armor), even if you go to the "PvP version" of the Isle of the Nameless. So I wouldn't be surprised if all NPCs use the PvE versions of skills. Vili &gt;8&lt; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 21:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's true. All NPCs use PvE-only versions of skills.  Fortunately, they're usually not well-made enough to use them in gimmick builds.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 21:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that may explain the spike from the ranger shrines when they attack. We ought to ask someone if it was intended for the npcs to use PvE versions of this skills.--ShadowFog 21:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's probably an oversight. PvE skills get forced to PvP versions in outposts, which NPCs never visit, so I guess they get to use the good versions.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 02:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "Changed Luxon/Kurzick Monk's elite to Unyielding Aura." That would be a fun update. Vili &gt;8&lt; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 04:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|150px]] --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 04:43, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No it wouldn't. If you're referring to Poletski/Radik as the Kurzick Monks (assuming we're talking about FA, still) then Kurzicks would always win. Kurzicks resurrected with full health/energy in range of Gunther? That's even more broken than the fact that we're already rezzed with full health/energy every 6 seconds a mere 3 steps away from Gunther. -- <font color="Black">Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  15:47, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sarcasm, young padawan. Aren't you Kurz, anyway? ;) Vili &gt;8&lt; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 22:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't mean I can't want balance. And yes, I assumed it was sarcasm. But it wouldn't be funny in the least. -- <font color="Black">Gah [[Image:User Gah My Name Cant Fi Echomending.jpg|19px]] Eat my uber regen.  00:28, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

How to Leech Fort Aspenwood Without getting Caught
When someone is standing still during a battle, it is more than likely that person will recieve reports and dishonorable status. Because of that, leechers use other tricks so that you cannot identify them.

The following describes how expert leechers leech Fort Aspenwood without getting caught. This might help you in identifying leechers.

The different types of leechers:

1. The Normal Leecher. These leechers stand still and do absolutely nothing during the whole match, and get rewards at the end. Those are the easiest to identify, as they are doing nothing, and are often reported.

2. The "Follow Player" Leecher. These leechers target a player(Target next ally set in Controls) and then keeps following them around(press spacebar to follow) while doing nothing. Note: They will do nothing to defend themselves, or to help you out. Those are usually 3rd party programs(bots), which will keep entering battle and following a player(usually player(1)) around. If you want to identify if this person is a bot(a computer program which just clicks enter battle), just ask for them to reply in chat. Because it is a computer program(nobody is behind the character, a computer is controlling it) the character will not respond as nobody is there.

3. The "Plug out the Internet Cable" Leecher. When somebody disconnects, a message appears "PlayerX has lost communication with the server". Usually, this is caused by lag or internet problems. However, recently, leechers have been abusing this. Enter the battle, plug out your internet cable(your char will still be online and you have a chance to reconnect), your party will recieve the system message which says you have lost communication with the server. Since people are not usually reported for internet problems(because other people are kind and understanding that internet problems are not deliberate), the leecher gets away with it without reports. They do it on purpose, "if I disconnected, people will think I have internet problems and not report me". Do it every match?

4. The Griefers(usually Kurzick side). Necromancer/Mesmer: Aura of the Lich, Arcane Echo, Blood of the Master. Keep using Aura of the Lich(echo it) until you have enough minions, then use Blood of the Master repeatedly and sacrifice yourself in front of Gatekeeper Radik/Poleski. This usually result in the death of those unique NPCs, and will probably end with a Kurzick defeat. These players do absolutely nothing to contribute to your team, on the contrary, they are helping the other team and making you lose. But other players argue that since these people are actually 'active and present', you should not report them as leechers.

5. The Copycats. "This(these) player(s) is(are) leeching, nobody reported him(them)...let me leech too then". Reminder: if you or your team does not care one bit about reporting current leechers, this situation might happen very often. It is quite 'fair' to think that you have the 'right' to leech if somebody else is leeching and no action is being taken against him by your team. Afterall, if they dont report him, why would they report you?

6. The Blackmailers(usually Healers). Monk says: "Nobody reports the leecher, no heals for you". Simple enough, your monk is now leeching, you are quite disadvantaged now, with both the leecher and the monk out of the way. Again, the player is 'active and present', so some argue that the monk is not leeching.

7. The "Move to Secret Location" Leecher. Since you need to target someone to report them, the leecher just moves away far from battle(far left behind the Purple/Orange Commander) so that you cannot target them unless you go there(people rarely go to these locations). Even if people do find them, it is quite difficult for the whole team to report them, as the whole team would have to move there to report(discourages reporting). In addition, since you can still report a leecher by typing /report, the leecher has a character with a very difficult name to type. Specially abusing the fact that Upper case "I"(i) looks exactly the same as lower case "l"(L) in-game, characters might have names like Illll Ill Il(iLLLL iLL iL). This again discourages players to report, as they do not know how to type the name(or use Japanese/Chinese letters in the name, nobody can type that).

When in doubt about whether a player is leeching or not, ask yourself the following: Is that person contributing to the team? Standing still = No. Just moving around = No. Deliberately disconnecting = No. Ally Killing = No. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.136.67.234 (talk).


 * FYI, anet servers have been unstable ever since the patch. I have many friends who dc much more often than before the update. Also, you can't prove someone is dcing on purpose; like for example, I DC often nowadays, but I always reconnect in about a minute and at least attempt to contribute. Sure, you can say a person who dcs isn't contributing, and hence leeching, but when you yourself legitimately DC, don't be surprised and angsty when you find dishonor slapped over your character.Pika Fan 11:00, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

It is true that many players disconnect and have internet issues. But it is also true that 'some' leechers are abusing the fact that if you disconnect, people will 'understand' and not report you. Not all players who disconnect are leechers. Example: someone is not moving, i call him as target in team, and tell everyone he is leeching. If he is still standing still, chances are people will see and report. But if he just plugs out the internet cable "right after" i call target(and pretend to have internet disonnections), isnt it obvious he did it on purpose so that he doesnt get reported? Not obvious yet, but how about if he does it every match? How come everytime, the moment someone calls target on him(and noticed he's not moving), he disconnects seconds after? If you noticed him at the start of the match, he disconnected at the start of the match. If you only find out about him by the end of the match(and he did NOTHING for the whole match) he disconnects by the end of the match. You often find the same players in the next match(specially on luxon side), he keeps doing it, and people refuse to report that person. This person is clearly gaining free factions, would you still claim this person is not doing it on purpose? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.136.67.234 (talk).


 * I think you're about spot on. I do have a concern with your "copycats" and "blackmailers", however.  Honestly, if there are obvious leechers, and the team isn't reporting those players, I will gladly say "I will start playing once the leechers are reported".  I report them, and will take a hit (albeit not as much) if they don't.  The system is broken in that fashion, and lazy players who can't type /report deserve nothing.  I don't play monk often, so I don't have personal experience with the blackmailers, but I think it's a completely viable tactic to ensure that "justice" is done.  After seeing the same people in nearly every other match leeching for MONTHS, with Anet doing nothing about it, it's time for the players to enforce their own rules.  "If one can leech, we all can leech".  --Mystisteel 17:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Heres another way to leech- As a luxon play Warrior.--ShadowFog 17:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, FA is really empty now
Compared to a year ago. What the hell happened? -- Hong 13:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I still prefer doing FA over AB...-- [[Image:User_Vanguard_VanguardLogo.png|19px]] anguard  13:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I still do FA. The leecher thing is a problem and I think the format might need more tweaking. Its easy to win as a Kurzick but Luxons have to multi-task to achieved their goal.--ShadowFog 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to know what happened, go to the latest archive section and read all about it. You will see the overwhelming advantages the Kurz have.  Here it is in nutshell: Luxon melee (Sin, Warrior, Ranger, Derv, Paragon) and healers (Monks, Rits) sux since all the NPC's are anti melee and you cant do a thing until the second gate is down; the healers suck because you are going into a base so offense is needed and thats why you see a crap load of healers on the kurz side since they are defending (this leaves you with Mesmer, Necro and Ele).  Kurz can win without needing mines thus making them pointless; on the flip side, Lux need it to get closer meanwhile the kurz spawn next to Gunther for unlimited energy supply.  You got Kurz refilling the gate instantly but the Lux have to go all the way the fk back to the commander just to tell him to advance the turtle; the flip side of that is when the Kurz refill the gates they are already inside their base since Lux have to go after them but the Lux have to backtrack and waste time to relay the same orders you gave at the start of the game (no one killed the commander so the orders should stay active) then go back to where you were and resume battle.  That long run takes pressure off Kurz.  You will also see the major exploits like a Kurz stalling a turtle at the top of the base; this Kurz position allows total freedom since no one can touch you (remember that melee sux comment?).  This stall brings back the bonders since the turtle is attacking the staller but the turtle cant hit him cause the wall is in the way (turtle uses projectiles).  If the turtle cant kill the staller then the turtle never moves to help kill the bonded npc (hence the stall) so this puts the Luxons back to square one with only a Mesmer or Necro as the only choice (enchantment removal).  Then, and if, just IF you can make it to Gunther, all the Kurzicks are healers; protection monks and monks with Peace and Harmony AND now with the latest Aegis update and you aint killing anything.  Protection monks prevent all damage, Healing monks keeps saving Gunther and PaH just ruined any remaining chance to kill Gunther...no damage, no hexes and no conditions = gg Kurzicks.  Notice Anet was quick to fix the minion exploit (free Lux win) but didnt bother with the stalling exploit (free Kurz win).  There is more but you get the idea.  Read the latest archive section to get a full report. 75.190.225.158 22:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ^^I concur.My last game as Luxon, the kurzicks had 6 monks(wut?!) and since the game ends faster(kurzick buff),they hold out both second gates.We had 3 retarded warriors looking at walls, 2 rangers doing nothing(what the hell were they going to do?shoot through walls?),2 monks doing god knows what(healing the party?for what?) and I was the only necro. Luxons must be brain dead most of the time, no? Well, I switch sides, bring my "kill turtle and its group" Life Transfer necro build, kill every player and kill their turtles every time(yes me alone, powerful build btw),w i n. Tried again as kurzick, same build but this time as kurzick we had 3 warriors,2 sins, 1 ranger, 1 monk and I was the only necro. Luxons entire team except 1 person, was monk. Kurzicks lost that game hard. So I think, if Kurzicks always play monk and hold out well, they will always win.I should have gone monk.--Wealedout 23:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Rebalance it
We all know that this is basically a Kurzick easy faction game, but it's getting really old. They have more NPCs, a timer that favors them, ressurect seconds away from Gunther (while we resurrect at the start and can be locked out or face more NPCs). We only have turtles who refuse to really move and even though they strip enchants that doesn't hurt anybody. More classic Anet "balance".
 * Turtles are overpowered when you use them right (which hardly anybody ever does), amber is overpowered when you use it right (which a very small number of people do sometimes but not really). The mission isn't balanced for the Kurzicks per say, it's instead set up so that the match is decided before you start fighting, by what you have on your team.  It's not like the Random Arena where a good team can beat a bad team even if the bad team has a monk or something, at FA, everything is decided pretty much the moment you've entered.  I've never fought a fair match at FA in my life.  I will admit, however, that there are more combinations that work for the Kurzicks than for the Luxons.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 07:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter how many npc's the kurzicks have, one RoJ = gate down in 5 seconds or less anyways. Now if only luxons would stop using RoJ on players instead of the npc's...205.206.134.182 05:09, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

FA zquest
Well, that's one way to "balance" it without doing anything... anyone who plays FA on the day the quest comes out will know what I'm talking about (smite paragons, dervish nukers, and twice the number of leechers and bots). More of these gravitate toward Kurzick side rather than Luxon, since it's far easier to win there than Luxon side. Still easier to win on Kurzick side than Luxon, but more difficult than before the quest came out. --''' <font color="Black">Gah Eat my uber regen. ''' 16:29, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Huge changes needed
FA takes too long for how much it gives you. JQ takes less time (though more standing around) and gives you signifigantly more faction. Not only that, but its balanced. Honestly, give the Luxons more power, and give everyone more faction. Instead of 4 warriors, give turtles a strong 4-6 man balanced squad. Mesmer, ele, monk, 2 wars, and maybe a rit or sin. teleporters should be taken out, in my opinion. They do nothing at all. Also, a good thing to do is let people walk on top of the gates... make it much more wall like. I understand that none of this will ever happen, and that im asking anet to redo the map. but it would be much better, i feel, if the entire place felt more like a fortress. i want to be able to bombard people from the top of the ramparts. Maybe even move the kurzick rangers so they actually aggro on people walking in through the gates. Tearh 03:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)