Feedback talk:User/Talamare/Wounding Strike

I think this has already been mentioned. Weaponmaster 03:00, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * none so simple to just increase the recharge a small amount -Talamare-   feedback  05:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think 6 seconds would be more fair so this skill wont lose to some nonelite deepwound skills . In the end this just causes DW and bleeding no extra dmg or anything + requires enchament. Raemon 18:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Bleeding still covers Deep Wound, which makes skills like Weapon of Remedy and Dismiss Condition useless against WS 82.217.189.101 14:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Restore Condition - all, heal for each condition removed
 * Life Sheath - up to two conditions, prevent next damages
 * Draw Conditions - all conditions are transferred to oneself
 * Peace and Harmony
 * Purge Conditions - all
 * Foul Feast - transfers Condtions from target to oneself; gain energy and health for each Condition transferred
 * Mend Body and Soul - if Spirits within earshot. Raemon 07:20, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, we all know you have to bring certain skills or lose. Sadly, that is the state of the game at the moment. Some of us call it Buildwars.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  13:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Needing to bring condition removal isnt build wars, quit trying to use that term for every little thing 71.53.151.9 21:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a difference in bringing condition removal and bringing a 1 of the 6 viable condition removal skills that remove 2 conditions, because the skill that applies the condition also happens to counter the condition removal. Also, I am not your lap dog.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  21:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Build wars is when you bring specific skills to counter specific builds... EVERYONE uses multiple conditions, build wars does NOT apply -Talamare-   feedback  11:45, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * But Wounding Strike is the only condition-applying skill that counters most nonelite condition removal skills.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  15:03, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Crip Slash, Twisting Fangs, Mel Shot, Virulence... Not to mention the 20 or so combination such as poison arrow + barbed arrows will get 2 conditions in 1 hit... or the condition stack spreaders like contagion and fevered dreams -Talamare-   feedback  19:13, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I am wrong, but in all of these skills the bleeding gets covered by the worthwhile condition, unlike Wounding Strike.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  22:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why are you trying to talk sense to someone who thinks patient spirit needed to be nerfed because most other healing prayer skills suck? Pika Fan 16:22, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * While thats a completely different matter, I believe my words for that were along the lines of "either PS needed a nerf or every other healing skill needs a buff, anet just chose former" -Talamare-   feedback  16:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Same shit, different phrasing. Please continue to call the egg an ovum. Pika Fan 16:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Right, Ive said enough about that to pika, back to koda, Some of those skills cover the better, some dont each one is different, On crip slash bleeding covers cripple, on apply poison the poison always happens 2nd so it can cover cripple from crip shot, daze from BHA or deep wound from any physical source... Tho Ill add to the suggestion to make deep wound cover the bleeding, if thats the main problem you see -Talamare-   feedback  16:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Statement 1: the police force has not enough manpower to handle crime in New York.
 * Statement 2: the police has just enough manpower to handle the crime in Manhattan.
 * Anet logic: fire some police officers in Manhattan police departments. o.O  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  16:45, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That and the 3s recharge, yes.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  16:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Talamare logic: fire some police officers in Manhattan police departments. o.O Corrected. Pika Fan 16:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant the main problem within the suggestion - Also my logic would be "Train every police officer to do his job better" -Talamare-   feedback  16:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not that DW is covered when applied. The problem with WS is that a powerful condition is easily kept on 5-6 people at once. The AoE, the cover condition, the energy cost are pretty much icing on the cake. Not that the icing is any less delicious, but still. Pika Fan 16:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ill agree with koda that the fact it gives a covered condition is a part of the problem - Its hard to compare other deep wound attacks - Every warrior one is mainly based on adrenaline and the rate you gain Adr varies greatly, vs skill anti melee that could take an hour to charge or you can use enraging charge for example and have it instantly ready, the paragon mainly energy based ones are not "on demand" because their drowned in conditional, even the assassin ones only happen after warning... -Talamare-   feedback  17:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You do know that twistin fangs is nonelite and also causes + dmg AND causes both conditions twice ? so you want to make wounding strike equal to twistin fangs wich is not elite ? if so i would like to see twistin fangs to be elite as well, same to Dismember. 89.166.101.7 17:17, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You do know that Twisting Fangs is not as spammable, not AoE, more conditional, costs more energy? It doesn't matter that twisting fangs applies both conditions twice, it's not like people will purposely time a condition removal in between the two hits. Pika Fan 17:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

4
 * You do know that dismember is cheap quite spammable nonelite deepwound almost without any drawbacks ? Is there reason that war should be always better option in every situation than dervish ? 89.166.101.7 17:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Dismember isn't AoE, doesn't cover the DW, and is only spammable if you can hit consistently? Vili &#x70B9; [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 17:30, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You do know that everyone kites and brings so much anti-melee in PvP that it takes a long time to charge your adrenaline, much less get off your attacks; whereas for WS you just need to worry about getting it off. Hey, you know what? Try playing the game and aligning yourself with reality, instead of looking at raw numbers like what you are doing right now. Pika Fan 17:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Then could you please tell me why the war is so much more popular pvp class than dervish if the derv is so superior compared to war ? 89.166.101.7 17:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Because wars have better survivability, utility as well as spiking potential which makes them a better choice. All of which have nothing to do with spamming covered DW every 3 seconds on 5-6 targets. Pika Fan 17:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The AoE is a problem with scythes in general, and by kodas argument Im suggesting that WS no longer provides a covered DW -Talamare-   feedback  17:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you forgot that wars can wear shield with axe and they have naturally higher armor + better ias and ims ? 89.166.101.7 17:39, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So, to compensate, instead of properly balancing the dervish, you give them broken skills which go against all logic. KK. Pika Fan 17:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont think balancing = totally killing one skill and buffing other stuff . 89.166.101.7 17:48, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that no skill should be smiters booned, I didnt think my suggestion went that far -Talamare-   feedback  17:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, Tell me why increasing the recharge to a reasonable amount and switch the order of bleeding and DW kills this skill  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  17:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Except it isn't, when you still have a skill that applies AoE DW easily, just that you can't spam it and balance the entire profession to make it a viable alternative to warriors. In case you didn't notice, throughout the course of history in GW, giving weaker classes imba skills to compensate for whatever that should have been properly balanced instead has tended to lead to unsavoury gimmicks which are unhealthy playstyles; like paraspike and searing flames. Pika Fan 17:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to fix the aoe part make a suggestion that scythes shouldnt AOE -Talamare-   feedback  17:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder how much recharge should it have, I cant figure it out between 6 or 8 (or maybe 7?) -Talamare-   feedback  17:53, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why ? cause there is nonelite skills wich can cause almost the same effect.
 * So wichone sounds better DW every 8 sec [elite] or DW every 5 adren [nonelite] ?
 * And still that AoE its 3 targets max and you cant wear shield same time 89.166.101.7 18:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * DW every 8 seconds, of course. Whenever I run bsurge, the other team has to either camp their ranger and second warrior on me the entire game, or have dismember charge up every 20-30 seconds. Pika Fan 18:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Point in perspective: Widely used professions(professions that are more likely to chosen) are those that retain effectiveness when dealing with different situations. The fact that certain professions are less likely to be used indicates they fill a role too niche to ever overtake popular meta professions. Instead of giving these less popular professions another skill to improve the way they perform their same old niche role(while increasing power creep), give them other options, versatility and utility to bring them up to the level where said professions can compete fairly with all other professions at all levels in PvPvE. Pika Fan 18:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeh but with dismember you still have free elite to choose from and you will last longer than dervs anyway + it's lot easier to interrupt slower attacks than fast hitting axes/swords/daggers .. 89.166.101.7 18:22, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So? It doesn't matter that I use up my elite for AoE DW on demand when it doesn't reduce my effectiveness, especially since it's not like dervishes have other decent elites(except reaper's sweep). So what if scythe attacks are easier to interrupt? The benefits of applying aoe DW on demand outweighs the slower swing, and many other strong skills and spells in PvP are equally as easy to interrupt(such as meteor and even other 1 second casts), yet people still run them. Pika Fan 18:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Scythes AoE is max 3 targets and its only adjacent + and the war is still going with more HP and defence spamming DW every 5 adren and harder to interrupt + still having the free elite slot . 89.166.101.7 19:10, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In HA, adjacent range is enough, and 3 targets is enough to make most teams explode. You got monks, you won't die that easily. Wars can't spam DW with so much anti-melee going around, and Dervishes don't have any other good elites(nor need any other elite when they can apply aoe covered dw). If you can't understand simple english, please go back to elementary school. Stop annoying people with your lack of understanding and comprehension of the situation. Boy, why am I always stuck arguing with people who are incapable of understanding basic english? Pika Fan 08:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Pika your argument shifting based on situation is annoying. People are making informed statements, for the most part, and know what they are saying inregard to the use and application they are talking about.  Everyone knows HA is cramped, doesn't change the fact that positioning still works.  Everyone knows that halls is retarded when the center is a big mosh pit, doesn't change that position still works.  Quit NPAing people, because they don't agree with you.  Reiterating common arguments as a means to put people down doesn't make you better or more intelligent than anyone else.  It makes you arrogant.  No one wants to hear, or see, an arrogant person run their mouth proclaiming how much worse other people are and how much better they are.  Instead being an ass, try telling people the consequences of descisions.  Foresight isn't something everyone uses well, and since you have decent foresight you could be beneficial to the wiki community.  That all depends on if you care or not though. ~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 16:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone is saying WS is a balanced skill. Is that guy even playing the same game as we do?  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  16:46, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Doubling the recharge would be reasonable enough... 89.166.101.7 18:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Speak English please.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  21:32, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

(RI) @Kumi, he was speaking english, he was just suggesting that we could double the recharge and the problem would go away. @IP: No, it would not be reasonable enough. If this remains an energy DW with a cover the recharge has to be at least 20 seconds. NuVII  10:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * He edited his contrib after I responded... this is much more readable :P 82.217.189.101 10:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Given that Draw and Foul Feast exist as non-elites. I'd say that 8 seconds is fine with the current cover of bleeding.  If it were that the only viable multi condition removal skills were elite, I'd think differently.  But FF is free and Draw is 5 energy and they balance out the cover DW. WS is 1337 in 4 man arena's though, don't get me wrong.  However, I refuse to allow balance based on RA and a daily random set of skills. Mostly bcs those arena's are random. ~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 16:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

No, it would not be reasonable enough. If this remains an energy DW with a cover the recharge has to be at least 90 seconds and 25 energy. 89.166.101.7 22:14, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Offering reasons helps validate a point. Otherwise you are just giving an opinion. ~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 00:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still an energy deepwound. Screw FF and Draw, if you are drawing DW you will get spiked to death. At least 20 seconds is the only way to go. GvG, RA, HA... a change from 3 seconds to 8 seconds isn't that much when you can spam other attack skills to pressure madly. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 15:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Eremite's and Mystic are the only skills that come to mind, that do what you say. Even given those you'd need an IAS too for enough melee pressure to bother anyone, whereas a Warrior with Frenzy or a Flailer with knock lock has no problem doing that.  4 skills, that can't be upkept constantly bcs of energy issues, dedicated strictly to melee pressure doesn't leave room for much utility.  I can see WS being 10 recharge at worst and still viable, or swap the conditions and it can be at 6 recharge.  In any case a recharge of more than 10 is worthless and under 6 is OP.  More than 10 seconds means your elite is strictly a spike skill, strictly comparing skills Eviscerate is better for that purpose given those costs.  Deep Wound with bleeding is pressure + heal mitigation and spike potential.  I bet you no one would care if WS was 3 recharge with it causing bleeding and applied a skill effect of 20% less healing benefit as opposed to DW with its added health drop.~>Sins  WDB [[Image: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png]] 01:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)