Talk:Critical hit

This is my first ever article so any pointers are welcome. The things I'm least certain about is the stubbing, expecially where you're supposed to put it, and categorising. Apart from that if you find anything wrong, from spelling to fomatting to information, feel free to yell at me.Beppe 08:09, 2 March 2007 (EST)


 * For your first ever article, this is great. If you want to add more information, more detail about the amount of damage a critical hit on each weapon does would be nice, but the article is fine as it is. --Xeeron 08:14, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Can anyone who knows more than me tell me why I don't get any contents-box for this article? I've compared it to other articles, which do have that box, and I can't see what's different. Even though it's not that big a deal in this particular article, I'd still like to know why.Beppe 03:55, 3 March 2007 (EST)
 * The auto table of contents only appears when there are certain number of top level headings on the page. I'm pretty sure its four.  This page only has three so doesn't get the contents. --Aspectacle 04:41, 3 March 2007 (EST)
 * You can force it to appear manually, by entering   at the top of the article. --Dirigible 04:48, 3 March 2007 (EST)
 * Added table of contents for yah -- Trackr 01:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Should there be some mention about Critical Hits versus fleeing foes? 71.36.12.137 20:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Just added that -- Trackr 01:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Formula
Can anyone prove that the critical hit formula is max damage times the square root of 2?  Calor  - talk 23:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * if your attribute is 12, it's max damage^√2, but if its higher or lower its a different number, these are my results:
 * Sword Mastery Attribute / Damage Dealt Using Wild Blow on a Foe With 60 Armor
 * 9 / 24
 * 10 / 26
 * 11 / 28
 * 12 / 31
 * 13 / 32
 * 14 / 33
 * 15 / 34
 * 16 / 36
 * note 22*√2=31
 * does anyone have some way to explain my results? -- Trackr 01:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I think I get it, I just wanted to make sure some people could confirm it, because it was added by an anon to the article, and that the anon wasn't just vandalizing the page by making up false formulas.  Calor  - talk 19:34, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Trackr, look under the Damage calculation article. You'll find that the related attribute affects damage output. Your values line up perfectly with the pre-calculated table, with 115% damage at rank 16 and 77.1% damage at rank 9. --Thervold 20:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm looking for clarification on calculation order. Does the multiplication of damage for a critical hit get applied before or after damage bonuses from attack skills? I looked in the Damage calculation article, but didn't see it in the critical damage formula, so does that mean before? --Bdeimen 3:53, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Before. Attack skill bonus damage is armor-ignoring. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Jupiter.jpg|19px]] 05:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

stack
do additional crit hit chances stack or are they capped somewhere? like using wot master+ wot assassin + crit eye. - Y0_ ich_halt  14:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol that would be nice... WotA +37%, CritEye +16%, WotM +33% and finally Critical Strikes Attribute +16% makes 102% of landing a critical hit. xD Then use CritDefenses for constant 75% Block Chance, Way of perfection for constant healing and as a weapon use a Scythe. For the other 3 Skills left take anything... Or Critical Agility (even though its PvE only) to attack faster. Or some other skills to attack faster. As you deal 41 dmg (Crit Hit Scythe) every time it should be enough... I seriously doubt that this is a truth but atleast it would be nice -- Silent Storm  [[Image: User SilentStorm MySig.png|19px]] 18:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * it's definately not like it. look at it this way: WotAssassin gets you 33% crit chance. WotMaster another, say 31% (not sure bout this), now imagine a forked path, 33% chance to go right (critical), 67% chance to go left (normal). let's take the right path and reach another fork, 31% chance to go left (critical) and 69% chance to go right (normal). so in 33% of all and in 31% of the remaining cases we get a critical. this sums up as 48.5% total critical hit chance (fork 1: 66/200 total hits critical, fork 2: 31/200 = 97/200 are critical). at least i think that's how it's calculated. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px|Have a look at my page]] 19:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I can summarize that last paragraph (which is unnecessarily long): Effects that increase your chance of scoring a critical hit are multiplicative, not additive.--Ainulindale 00:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

ultra-crits?
sometimes while playing pve i noticed sometimes extraordinary high crit-dmg-numbers, most times twice or more of a normal crit. but they are realy rare. is it something like a headshot or what, i cant realy explain myselve where this dmg is coming come from. for exaple, my first u-crit: my lil ranger was around lvl 15 and i was fighting some lvl 8 charrs, one charr-warrior is running torwarsd me, i shot him, bam ... 260 dmg! the last one i remember was in an asura-dungeon, it was about 400dmg (it was with glass arrows, but its realy not normal, and it wasn't a low-lvl spider!) Mystic Gohan  talk  00:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * well, critical hit damage is modified by level base damage, level difference, armor (maybe some monsters have different ratings on different pieces?), with a bow also range and, of course, other damage modifiers from skills, customization, inscription... gotta be one of those. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px|Have a look at my page]] 13:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * might as well be a hex on the monster increasing damage they take, an enchantment on you, or maybe you have an armor penetration inscription? - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px|Have a look at my page]] 13:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * well i dont remeber everything anymore ... im also not shure that i had glas arrows, but only armor-penetrating couldnt create such a dmg-output. maybe the opponent used frenzy and i didnt noticed. what i also notice a doubling of dmg when the opponent is around 10% or 5% of health. i realized this also with my rit with Ancestors' Rage or something like that. - Mystic Gohan  talk [[Image:User_MysticGohan_paw_sig.png|User talk:Mystic Gohan]] 19:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * i think that's an illusion... - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px|Have a look at my page]] 20:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * when in hitting 400 on unsuspecting strike, with counjoure and strength and honor, was critical, i got 3 energy back, i dont thing theres things as super criticals, but its glitches in dmg calculation, ive hit a 17 with unsuspecting, and it says +39 amour ignoring, so theres glitches in dmg calculationsAnnoying And Deadly 03:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

, whoops, plus 20% death bane and strength and honor, still wont bring it up to 400 though, maybe u had judges insight on, vs undead, ive hit over 500, but i knew why Annoying And Deadly 03:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I got -163 on a 60 armor from Malicious Strike using a scythe. Doesn't add up...even if it was max: 41x1.414+29 dmg, then another 35% for 15^50 and customization in PvP would =115.665 dmg.--Ʀєʟʟɑ 03:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

ok im thinking, unsuspecting strike, on sundering daggers, with vengeance in mine, strength of honor, and judges insight, and +20 death bane that will hit over 400, double unsuspecting 140,(holy dmg)280+20%+20%+18=421dmg
 * Vow of Strength+Asuran Scan+Strength of Honor+Judge's Insight+Unsuspecting Strike on something undead. gogogo! -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  03:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Value of critical hits by weapon
OK, did some research when looking into the usefulness of Dulled Weapon (see here) and I calculated the % effect a critical hit has on the average damage each weapon does, as surmised by this table: Just wondering if it would be useful for anything, since it shows which weapons are affected most by critical hits (although bear in mind it doesn't say how good the weapon is normally or how much a crit. actually gets you). Maybe for Way of the Master sins who want to try something other than Scythes (the should go for axes or spears, I guess) or whatever.

Multiplication Table
Synergy = "the working together of two things to produce an effect greater than the sum of their individual effects". 53>45 and 52>43 so there is definitely synergy here, it seems to be user subjectivity on being a useful skill. I'm also fairly certain its possible to have 0% critical hits but am not willing to run n out to a couple decimal places in test dummy hits on the Isle of the Nameless to prove it. Even if it were say a 5% base chance it would still have to be multiplicatively calculated against everything else that modifies the value resulting in a negligible change overall to the figures in the table. The table itself though is a good idea and should have been done a long time ago. 98.219.48.111 02:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - I guess it's worth noting that I didn't painstakingly calculate each value, I'm using the skill progression table to do the work for me. I did calculate at 0 and 15 to get the start and end values. I also did one check calc at 10 CS and it's close enough for me. If you want to - go ahead and run the numbers for the table, the relevant ones are at 10+ anyway since this skill combo only happens for high-level players.

In response to the definition of Synergy - Since the base critical rate is an unknown, I'll go with the subjective approach to this one. --- If I'm going to have a skill adding only +8% critical chance, it's coming at too great a cost to stay on my bar. A +8% crit chance with Daggers is a laughable amount of damage boost. I'd prefer to add the synergy of a better attack chain or a useful enchantment. Also, the energy gain from Critical Eye is nice, but is not reason enough to take on my bar when the 50% critical rate from WotA is also returning 3E on each critical just from 13ranks in CS. (I'm assuming my base critical rate at 13 Dagger Mastery will contribute +-5% to the calculated values when I'm facing a level 20+ opponent) 64.32.249.154 21:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

That table CAN'T be right. At 13 crit strikes, Critical Eye gives you a 13% bonus and Way of the Master gives you a 29% bonus. Assuming a base 12% critical-strike probability (i.e. roughly 1% for each point of weapon skill), the highest I can get to is a 19.77% chance: 12% x 1.13 (13 critical strikes) x 1.13 (Critical Eye) x 1.29 (Way of the Master). How on earth are you getting such high numbers in your table?


 * Because 12% is supposed to be considered 1.12
 * 1.12 * 1.13 * 1.29 = 63% chance to crit -- or -- (1-0.12)*(1-0.13)*(1-0.29) = 1-x... or 45% chance to crit
 * I dont know which way its multiplied but the easiest way to test it would be to use "Go for the Eyes!" with at least a 80% chance and use 15 weapon mastery, mark when you use GFTE, if you ever not crit while using GFTE... then it uses the 2nd way... if you always crit then it might use the first way -Talamare-   feedback  00:49, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Think of it like this: Say you have a 50% chance to critical from each of two different sources. If one succeeds (50% chance), you crit. If it fails, there is a 50% chance of the other causing a crit. However, this second one only happens 50% of the time, anyway. So, you have 50% + 50% * 50% = 50% + 25% = 75%. Another way of thinking of it is that sometimes, you will get critical hits from multiple sources. So, there is a 25% chance I would get a critical hit from both my 50% chances - but once I'm hitting a critical hit, there's no benefit to getting it from another source as well, it's still just a critical hit. This "overlap" of the critical hit chances is what stops it from being a 50% + 50% = 100% chance - instead, it's 50% + 50%, but we added 25% on twice (since that is the overlap), so we needs to take it back off once, giving 50% + 50% - 25% = 75%. This is the same way blocking works. 81.151.87.61 21:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Critical hit rate formula
Izzy posted the formula in this edit. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder what WeaponCritChance is about. Can someone give me a hint? --Ayc 14:01, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I was wondering the same thing. Any answers out there? Xlegna 17:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Martial weapons have a higher chance to make a critical than staves and wands. This is the base number before any other factors are added in. FleshAndFaith 22:30, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Did someone say that hitting the head, or "headshot" results in a critical hit? That would mean that you'ld have atleast one-fifth crit. hit chance all the time, right? Clarification on this would be so helpful.Zeke64 02:18, 21 March 2010 (UTC)Cul
 * It's not that all hits to the head are crits (I think), but that all crits hit the head. It's one of those rectangle-square deals, if that makes any sense.  Also, the chance to hit the head is 1/8, not 1/5.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  16:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Tested and false. See below, about always hitting headpiece. I tried to make a note about it, but somebody deleted it, even though it's important to keep it there. [[image:User_Kiomadoushi_sig.png| ]] Kiomadoushi  20:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Effects of armor and armor penetration
This article doesn't make clear if armor rating or armor penetration (weapon mod) have an effect on critical hit chance. If I swipe something which has 80 armor, am I less likely to critical hit than if that exact thing had 60 armor? Also, does an armor penetration mod have an effect? Thanks 97.118.162.87 11:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No, those won't effect the change of a critical hit. And no, armor penetration doesn't have a visual effect. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  11:32, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Crit with touch spells
I know skills can be crit but what about touched skills and the use of assassins Critical Strike, will this make a touch skill a better chance to crit? 24.33.124.72 11:10, 19 April 2010 (UTC)Amishprn86
 * As the first sentence of the article says, crits are for attacks. Backsword 12:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Critical Hits always hit headpiece
I've seen this being talked about on forums and in other discussion areas of the wiki, but this page makes no mention of it, and it's difficult to find references that either support or refute this. Does this actually happen? Are we sure of it? If so, I'll add it to the page, but I'd like confirmation first. -- Dusk  (Talk) 19:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Test it. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  17:10, 23 Feb 2011 (UTC)
 * Tested. It's false. With Geomancer headpiece only, using Stone Striker - Boyfriend hit me with Wild Blow (which is always a crit). With overall 60AR (and headpiece 80AR vs earth), Wild Blow hit me for 53 continuously. When I turned on Stone Striker, the damage remained 53, and roughly 1/8 of the hits were 40 dmg, showing that not all critical hits were my head. Proven false, thank you. /bow [[image:User_Kiomadoushi_sig.png| ]] Kiomadoushi  02:56, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Critical Hit on Scythe
Ok,i think to have found the formula to calculate the critical hit on scythe...First of all i did some test on sin with higher critical hit rate (using skills) and here the data :
 * Target Armor : 60
 * Scythe Mastery : 12
 * Critical Hit : 53%

All critical Hits VS AL 60 deal 45 damage. So the damage gain is ~9/10%, wich is 41 * 1.09/1.1. 1.1 can be the square root of 1.2,that is 1.095445.Light Athena 14:27, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * With a customized 15^50 scythe, my crits were doing 62 damage, which if you take 41 * 1.15 * 1.2 * 1.1 (1.1 being a 10% increase) gives you just a little bit over 62 (62.2). --JonTheMon 16:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)