Talk:Soldier's Fury

Compared to aggressive refrain this skill is pointless, I really don't think that the difference between 25% and 33% is worth the elite slot. Aggressive will last forever, but Soldier's Fury you have to recast every so often... Maestro Ed 04:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I think I've seen this used once. And it was on some assassins then, too. Maybe added damage? It's self-target only, so it's not like that could be over-powering... RitualDoll 03:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Note removed due to pointlessness and lame grammar --Cursed angel 16:41, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Finally this has a use after AR got mega-screwed with a constant easy-to-abuse cover condition. Hooray! /sarcasm.81.2.90.239 23:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * AR only got screwed for people trying to use it in lower levels of PvE. People in PvE and higher ranked PvP will just see the Cracked Armor and laugh 'cause a tank is gonna be there in PvP and you're going to have an RC in HA and GvG. xP This skill is still useless. But I don't see it getting attention with all the Parahate. RitualDoll 02:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * compares this skill with RaO* why is one considered godly and the other utter crap?21:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Because RAO has no activation time, rangers have expertise, RAO is constant (unconditional) speed buff and IAS, and most importantly, there is no non-elite that can substitute well for RAO

this is still better than soldiers stance (warr IAS elite) as it sti,l allows stance to be used

wow i gotta say this put focused anger in a hole... wow, before soldiers fury ias made up for the adren buff focused gave but now... yeesh. time to switch some elites around... lmao, this skill is even decent w/o leadership on a ranger.--~Phill Gaston ‎ 17:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Adrenaline gain
Does anyone know how much more adrenaline you really get? I think the calculation = 33+(33x0.33)= 43.89% More adrenaline84.27.170.207 09:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It should be 1.5 * 1.33 = 2 times regular adrenaline gain (since 33% faster attack is actually 50% more attacks). --142.161.144.211 01:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So I see, thanks84.27.170.207 18:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Could you explain to me why you say 33% = 50% more attacks? Unless there are some strange mechanics or I'm overlooking something, 33% faster attack speed means you would hit 4/3 times for every 1 hit normally done. I figure you must have somehow come up with the figure 2/3 which you then got the multiplicative inverse of, 3/2, but I can't see how or why you would have done this. If one has a base of 1 adrenaline gain per unit (doesn't matter what unit), 33% IAS means they achieve an extra .33 (the same way 100% faster means an extra 1) = 1.33. But we now gain 1.33 adren per unit so 1.33*1.33 = 1.7689 or 16/9. I'm changing the note for now, please post here if you disagree, I'm completely open to criticism if someone sees a flaw in my logic here. 114.77.98.223 06:33, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * When GW says "you attack 33% faster", it means "your attacks take 33% less time". You attack 3 times in the time it'd normally take to attack twice, hence 50% more adrenaline.  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  6:35, 4 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah I see, so 100% faster would mean an infinite amount of attacks/sec. Very strange in my opinion. Thanks for clarification. 114.77.98.223 09:09, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Casting Sound
Cool casting sound! Is it soldiers making a cool noise? 98.221.120.211 20:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Same as every other echo ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 21:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

soldier's stance
is pretty lame if you compare them --Anorith  Talk 17:28, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Casting Time?
Don't get me wrong, this skill is awesome now. But why does it have a casting time? It's a stance. Is there any other stance in the game with a casting time? 75.61.32.166 20:05, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Volfen Pounce and Volfen Agility both have a cast time (3/4 sec and 1/4 sec respectively). So I answered my own question. Still...this is the only stance that has a cast time outside of the Volfen form. 75.61.32.166 20:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Uhm... Its a Echo ~ Kurd [[Image:User Kurd sig.png]] 20:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It can be used on a warior, and the guy above is Captain Obvious. --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 09:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Can be used on a Warrior?...eh nope... although I think you have realized this already. As Captain Obvious stated that was correcting the IP poster, yes it's a echo... good luck removing blocking enchantments, stances, shout, chants, skills and hexes to get your dps on someone thought.--ShadowFog 03:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
That note saying the para is wearing ELite Sunspear is just BS. And further more, who the hell cares? Justice 10:42, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And if that is "BS" what armor is he wearing then? Elite SS is the only set with a breast plate like that (and you can see the heraldry too). As for who cares? It's trivia. If you don't care don't bother reading it, don't question what others may care for. Mystical Celestia 10:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok and where are the wings on the shoulders? If it doesnt have them then its crap, can hardly make anyting out on that icon and the wings would be the give away. Justice 22:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The onus is on you to disprove the theory, not to point out flaws in it. Find a better fit. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 22:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

No wings = not elite sunspear, cant get any better then that, dont really care beyond that if everyone else likes the trivia then they can have it. Not hear to cry, just to say wtf and let someone else deal with it if they think it needs to be addressed. Justice 22:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * So basically you're going to bitch and leave it to everyone else to deal with a problem only you seem to care about? /ignore in that case. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 01:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Or more like in your case rage quit. I would change it because I know im right, but you will just change it back because...I dont know, you just like being a jerk cause no one cares if you rage quit Justice 04:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Debunking only saves 1 hit per 4 adrenaline a skill requires
Some people look at this skill like expertise, where only at certain increments will you get the most benefit. On paper it's easy to say a 7a skill will charge in exactly 6 hits under soldier's fury, but when you factor in things like getting adrenaline when you take damage, the skills not always requiring exactly what they say, and that when you use an adrenaline attack under soldier's fury all your adrenal skills have a net gain of adrenaline instead of breaking even, it often saves you more than 1 hit per 4a a skill requires.

Examples:

If I use wild throw (a 7a skill), then 1 adrenaline attack and 4 normal hits, wild throw will be recharged, whereas it would normally take 6 normal hits to charge it the second time. Saved 2 hits on a 7a skill.

If I use blazing spear (6a), then 2 adrenaline attacks and 3 normal hits, blazing spear will be recharged, instead of taking 5 normal hits to recharge. Saved 2 hits on a 6a skill.

If I use barbed spear (2a), then 2 adrenaline attacks, barbed spear will be recharged, instead of taking 1 normal hit to recharge. Saved 1 hit on a 2a skill.

If I use go for the eyes (4a), then 2 normal hits and 4 adrenaline attacks, go for the eyes will be recharged, instead of taking 4 normal hits. Saved 2 hits on a 4a skill.

Yes, I was bored. Yes, I just did all of these scenarios on the isle of the nameless. Necromas 18:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Um isnt Soldier's Fury 33%? Wouldnt that be gaining 1adren every 3 hits? The math behind an adrenalin bar is kinda tricky since whenever you use an adrenalin skill it removes 1 from all other skills. If its an attack and it hits it adds one right back PLUS any adrenalin bonus. If its a shout/skill then you loose 1 adren across the board and any skills that were charged will take exactly one hit to recharge, which funny enough will not benefit from adrenalin boosting skills unless under the spirit soothing. I dont worry about the math and just keep attacking and using skills ;-) Justice 19:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * "...which funny enough will not benefit from adrenalin boosting skills unless under the spirit soothing." You still benefit the same from adrenaline boosting skills after using a shout, it's just that you won't need more than 1 strike to recharge a skill that was already fully charged before you used a shout. Necromas 20:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

aka wont benefit from it... Justice 00:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If all your other skills are charged, sure. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Synergy with "For Great Justice"
does it? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.182.79.180 (talk &bull; contribs) at 17:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC).
 * Not really. Adrenaline gain is capped at 200%, so the two effects won't stack, though you will have a long-lasting shout to trigger the IAS. 65.110.239.227 16:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Soldiers Fury Nerf
NuVII  19:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC) NuVII  19:21, 26 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks! NuVII  12:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Aevar talk  contribs 01:47, 29 January 2010 (UTC) --66.50.35.24 02:54, 31 January 2010 (UTC) --Gammastar 02:39, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Regina Says "Soldier's Fury will be given a similar downside as Aggressive Refrain. "Whenever a shout or chant ends on you, you suffer from Cracked Armor (10 seconds)." The purpose of this change is to force paragons to make a choice between defense (higher armor) or offense (increased attack speed). We do not expect PvE paragons to be harmed by this change; so we're letting it apply to both PvE and PvP."
 * Making the most popular PvE Paragon Elite won't harm PvE Paragons? I guess your reasoning is that there are aleady so few that there is no reason to care what happens to them. Or maybe you just want to encourage more players to use Shadowform? This is the same BS that happened with AR a while ago. It makes no sense, it's inelegant and the only thing this is going to accomplish is that it is going to be EVEN HARDER to encourage people to make Paragons. Stupid Stupid Stupid. There is already such a limit on what Paras can do in PvE without using Imba. You make want to vomit. I am so done with you guys. 70.188.168.127 18:53, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, you should be using focused anger in PvE. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 19:00, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Which makes it okay to nerf even more of the paragon skills so that theyre more cookie cutter, useless, and lame, outside of imbagon which is going to get the nerf bat right after shadowform because once shadow form is dead imbagon will be the best way to hold down party wide damage reduction. Dual imbagons + UA monk will be the new team farm. Which means people will start bitching about paragons. --71.193.48.146 19:03, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "^Implying that PvE was once balanced. Implying that people aren't bitching about paragons. Implying that paragons could get even more lame. Implying that paragons are useless."
 * PvE+Balanced = Lolwut? The only people that bitch about paragons are people that do GvG. and this was a PvE discussion. Kthx. :D --71.193.48.146 19:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "^Implying that only GvG people bitch about paragons."
 * keep that implying shit on that hellhole 4chan where it belongs.134.109.89.1 08:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "^Implying that implication belongs only on 4chan."
 * "^Implying implications."
 * "^Implying succesfull trolls."
 * "^Implying it is possible to imply troll implications of trolling trolls by implying implications"
 * If anything, it could use a buff. Remove casting time plz! -- 06:24, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Shh! You might bother the still diminutive lingering pvp community.--66.50.35.24 02:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually he didn't imply that implying doesn't belong here, he actually said it. And anyway it's a point that this was only really getting used to save spaces on bars where there isn't really any other decent elite skill for a paragon to take. 188.74.101.228 11:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU A NET70.68.14.196 05:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, this is some pretty goddamned shit shenanigans on Anet's part and I'm sure they know it. The whole point of Soldier's Fury WAS to have an alternative AggyRef...  now they're basically identical except that Fury doesn't renew.   If this isn't followed by a BUNCH of buffs to Spears&Motiv or a buff to alcohol(drunken master)... then goons are officially dead to me. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 03:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * /agree here. With people already complaining about paragons not being good, this skill provided an alternative to... many things^^ I don't even care about a bunch of buffs to spear/motivation (though Motivation could use it^^), I just want the Cracked armor off the skill T-T *hugs previous version* 213.166.198.75 09:12, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Yet another poor decision made by ANET's Skill Balancing "B-Team." I think the caterer got promoted to Skill Balancer to fill Izzy's spot. -Ninjatek 04:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * OH SHI- ...is that a "Kitchen --> make meh a sammich" dig?? -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 05:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Cracked armor bug
the cracked armor last more than 10 seconds i believe its actually 20 seconds

Feb 25 2010 Update
Yet another nerf. Now you CAN catch cracked armor AND have it affect you! Time to throw away the shields, kids, you dont need them with this skill! But really, great job pissing on the concept of armor, Anet. 96 armor can drop to 60 in 2 skills? gtfo. You can give warriors +40 armor and IAS on arguably the strongest weapon type in the game (as if its necessary), but paragons get the shaft as soon as they step into dps territory. Since you want to screw with their armor so badly, just give paragons wands and make them some sort of weird casting profession; either way, something smells bad from the higher powers in this game.--Ipsen 03:13, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * the change was catering towards people using paragons in pve. The AI will try to cure cracked armor every time it is applied.  This would happen when shouts/chants ended on you, which would usually be every ~3 seconds in battle.  This results in heroes/hench wasting half their energy repeatedly removing cracked armor on the paragon, rather than removing important conditions such as deep wound (or even just not wasting their energy).  I think fixing that (albeit a workaround) outweighs the miniscule number of times where you'll get both debuffs on you.  cracked armor is rare in pve, anyways. MAFARAXAS 04:37, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * and if you're talking about pvp, you're bad, you run cruel spear for damage. MAFARAXAS 04:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Gee, this guy is smart. Cruel spear for damage? When you have vicious and merciless to do the same thing without costing your elite? But getting back to pve, who cares if support AI cure the cracked armor, that's what they're supposed to do. If your AI's cant handle frequent conditions, its a scrubby AI bar (the main reason why I always take N/Rt healers over monks; resto kills 2 birds with one stone in several key skills). The problem isnt having both cracked and -20 armor; the problem is having -20 armor while having 80 inherent armor, which leaves you at 60 armor (+shield, in most cases). So now you're officially squishifying yourself to gain an IAS; a tradeoff comparable to frenzy. Its a nerf; an uncalled-for nerf, and if it isn't directed at some niche group of 'exploits', I dont know what in the world Anet is thinking.--Ipsen 05:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It's difficult not to ignore an argument that is preceded by a dismissal of Cruel spear for DPS and a comment using frenzy as an example of BAD ias...but the thing is, once you put a couple paragons in a group, your healers are using condition removal skills on recharge for no reason. Furthermore, any condition (ever been blinded?) is always covered by cracked armor and the whole "squishifying yourself" isn't quite true since you'll still have 86 armor.  But despite that, you should be using AR over this for IAS.  128.54.217.175 11:53, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yet you could make profit from it, by giving them skills like smite condition. Anyway, with cracked or with -20, whats the point of nerfing this skill? --85.59.72.79 19:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Fail... if they're spamming SmiteCond before you're even in combat, then it's still recharging right as you get into melee which begs the next question... why a is a spear chucker staying in melee beyond the use of spear swipe? ...I'm not even going to address what's wrong with the guy who expects everyone to run Dis/Sab/Rit-ways for a character concept that's supposed to be teaming with other Paragons  (or atleast other Shout builds...)  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 20:06, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps because it is better that they hit you instead of the "I'm scared" stupid bots, or because it affects In_the_area, or because an imbagon is always going to be the most obvious target (the guy with lowest ar)--85.54.238.117 17:05, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I was saddened to log onto my Paragon and see this change. While the AI issue was annoying, I think people are frustrated because this "fix" is the equivalent of getting a paper-cut, but chopping of your hand instead of using a band-aid. At least before, the Cracked Armor condition could be easily removed, negating the penalty altogether; now you have a permanent -20 armor while the echo is active (despite the IAS and IAG being conditional), which can stack with Cracked Armor. Granted, an AI fix would have been more difficult to implement, but certainly ideal if that's the real reason for this. Perhaps if Soldier's Fury applied an immunity to Cracked Armor in addition to the armor reduction? Either way, I don't like it; at least us Paragons will always have our dashing good-looks... until someone decides our handsomeness is too threatening and that gets nerfed too. >.< --Enigmatist 08:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The -20 armor is absolutely unecessary. Penalizing the Paragons elite IAS is in essence the same thing as saying that all other Paragon elites are underpowered. That being said I would rather have an innate -20 armor than have Cracked Armor popping up to cover stuff like Blind. All this really does is ensure that people will pass over this elite and use Soldiers Stance or even Flail instead. I remember all the great arguments and supportive logic from players back when the cracked armor aspect was added to Agressive Refrain. It was totally ignored, not even commented on. I believe that the main reason Paragons recieve so little love is that they do not help to sell copies of Factions to the general public as rits and sins (which face it are the Alpha Classes today) do. All around bad decisions with this skill.
 * You know what really sells Factions to the Public? Anytime it's marked down on Steam.  Devs seriously need to stop trying to make marketing's job any easier b/c they don't frikken do anything as it is.  Screen Spliners on a submarine are a better use of resources than Anet's Marketing/PR...  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 22:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I, too, really dislike this change. It feels like the equivalent of preventing warriors from using another stance while Frenzy is active (boy, would that nearly kill the skill!). I can't remove that -20 armor no matter what! I was even more annoyed that day in February to see warriors getting buffs to IAS stances (75% block, +40 armor, etc.). Come on! 4.88.51.75 01:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Stand Your Ground
Am I the only one that uses "Stand Your Ground" instead of "Can't Touch This" or "Lead The Way" for PvE? Just seems to me that negating the armor penalty while triggering SF is a logical choice. Yes, there is the couple of seconds after it expires before reapplying, but that can easily be covered by TNtF.Kalessin 22:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering the main use of paragon skills like this, namely imbagon defense buffs, you're pretty much covered defensively anyway. It's overkill to add more defense, especially when it doesn't stack over SY. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 23:17, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I know SY and SYG won't stack for everyone else. In any group that you're the only one with SY however it's nice not to be as squishy.  In my experience when I run SF or FA/AR without SYG, the healers often can't keep up with the damage that comes my way.Kalessin 00:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but there's still the damage reduction from TNTF, and if you have competent healers it's still usually enough. PUGs could be trouble I suppose, but that's nothing new. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 00:37, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Best way to go, imo, is 2 paras that chain sy and tntf to keep both up 100% of the time. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  19:30, 12 Aug 2010 (UTC)
 * Two imbagons is overkill. "cant touch this" blocks alot more crap then people realize and in general should be taken. Your more then likely to be taking other shouts aswell and in general should never have trouble being under a shout/chant. But to be honest, my Hayda uses "stand your ground" and this skill simply because she cant use "SY!" ;-) I honestly dont know why people think taking Focused Anger is superior to this skill. Justice 10:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe people should try combining this skill With "I Am Unstoppable!" and Enduring Harmony since the armor increase stacks beyond the armor increase cap to fully negate the reduction in PvE. Damysticreaper 16:20, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Adrenaline note
Needs massive improvement if it is to remain as it is currently very, very misleading. It is only true when constantly attacking and only applies to adrenaline gained from attacking, not adrenaline gained from skills or taking damage, which still only get a 33% bonus. It is also not true in most practical situations as the IAS will effect how many hits you get in before something happens that prevents you from hitting your target. It is only really true when autoattacking against the master of damage, and therefore, not very useful at all. Misery  12:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Another Pointless Note
Why does it say, "this pve skill can give you more armor so you wont notice the armor reduction from the elite as much". Any armor increasing skill can counter the armor loss to some degree, obviously. Also saying it combines well with enduring harmony does not make sense, as a paragon will be affected by a shout most of the time anyway. Not to mention that lead the way and cant touch this are niche skills.217.122.185.102 00:06, 21 January 2011 (UTC)