Talk:Disarm

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

 * Disarm: move to strength 1..5s -> 0..5s please discuss new skill numbers here. ~Izzy @-&#39; 23:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Much fun for annoying sins in RA :D ~[[user:xiaoling|Xiao}}


 * I think that's much better =) Mikey 00:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * much better but 12 second recharge is still too low imo 12>15/20. 87.194.81.41 00:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper
 * Yeah, I'd bump it up to 20 (still spammable enough to make a "linebacking" sword war, but not so spammable that he renders another warrior completely useless with one skill). - Auron 00:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe this skill might encourage energy attacks rather than adrenaline? Since energy attacks don't need charge. --Deathwing 01:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Energy attacks are terrible compared to adren ones. Why throw away the entire adren system with something like this? :/ - Auron 01:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well maybe they aren't as terrible since now adrenaline attacks have this skill to worry about. It gives all energy attacks a slight boost in the comparison between the two. I doubt it will have much effect on anything. --Deathwing 01:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Still needs higher recharge or we'll never see hammer warriors again(assuming other things won't already shift the meta towards Melandru). --Edru viransu 01:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? Only warriors can really use this now. --Heelz 01:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you're talking to me. If not, disregard this. If so, what effect does this only being useful on a warrior have on whether it will destroy the viability of hammer warriors? --Edru viransu 03:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Neato nice job izzy love the fact that this is now an omni melee interupt strengths gona be much more appealing with this lil gem Hector Mata ZoS
 * Thanks for nipping this one in the bud. Warrior's now playing part active defense role... This can be pretty potent in a skilled player's hands, which is awesome.--Skye Marin 03:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Still a bit scary against Hammer warriors, i'd raise recharge to 15 at least, but it's hard to say that it will make warriors disappear from the meta since you need a warrior to use it! Patccmoi 03:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What an excellent attribute move. I understand why people are talking about the effect on slow hammer attackers ( though Dervishes are just as slow ), but my first reaction was joy that this skill is actually available to hammer Warriors now - their first full-power non-Elite half-second attack skill !
 * Protector's Strike --Lou-Saydus 00:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks for the adjustments to the skill Izzy. The recharge may need to be adjusted a little, but it'd be nice to see how well it plays as is. --Rururrur 06:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I hate to be pedantic, but shouldn't this skill be labeled Melee Attack instead of Attack ? As the skill is worded now, any kind of attack could be used with this - which surely can't have been the designer's intention, right ? Clan Yumemiru 12:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Most skills in the GWEN section currently say "Attack" and don't have the specific type yet. Gerid 00:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

With the For Great Justice buff i can still see hammer warriors being played in gvg. Also I think a few things are being overlooked with this skill, it's an attack, thus it has to hit, blind and all your anti melee will still ruin this, as will blocking it, SoD is common enough and i imagine guardian is seeing it's fair share of play (havn't been observing since recent skill update). Wail of Doom, although rarely used is alot harder to see coming, if the opposing team is under pressure then warriors are most likely going to line back, knowing this it's up to the midline/backline to try and prevent a successful disarming.

I can picture this happening alot too: Warrior A moves towards Warrior B in an attempt to disarm, Warrior B watches this and waits for the right moment to stop attacking, Warrior A uses disarm to no effect, then Warrior B turns around and twats him back with a disarm XD 80.1.108.96 07:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill does one thing as far as im concerned, that being, Giving the sword warrior one more way in which he can assume his rightful place as the master of melee to melee combat. No longer will sins foolishly charge the riposte warrior wit htheir expose defenses wishign to lay him low by their tiny blades! no! now he will use Disarm halfway through the sins combo and the sin will then flee! but the warrior will follow up with cripslash or bulls strike and bring the foolhardy dagger wielder low with his newfound skill! The warrior DESERVES skills like this. In todays metagame where the warrior is surrounded by counters, He DESERVES to be the master of melee to melee. Its his duty, his ROLE. this skill brings him up from the ashes and like Thetis Giving Achilles his mighty new set of armor to slay Hector, this skill lets the warrior go forth to rout troy and all of its Dervishes, rangers, assassins, and paragons, and show them who the first Visceral combat class was, and how he is still the master of his profession!!! BWAHAHAH! Ill be sad the day this gets nerfed. I like hwo it shows a picture of a ranger wielding a sword, showign the mockery melee combat has become...(68.63.233.200 00:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC))

Only minor criticism is that's it's a Sword Attack rather than Melee Attack (Oh how I'd love to smack that weapon out of their hands with a hammer) but other than that  - great skill in the right attribute line. Clan Yumemiru 22:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

what a long and boring speech that was about warriors, get over it. If warriors were the only decent melee class, the game would suck so much for people without warriors, besides, i have yet to see someone use this skill anywhere in pvp. Dervs and Sins still own out there, and since when does a sin jump up to spike down a 100AL warrior? wow, this sounds so complaint-ish, but still, its not that popular. --Uberxman1028 23:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)uberxman1028

Original skill feedback
Caster with a +5 sword of enchanting use this on the warrior who's attacking you and drain all his adrenaline attacks! --Heelz 03:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is going to be difficult to counter for the poor assassin, disabled for 5 secs every 12 secs. --hadz 04:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Assassin should be able to kill something in 7 seconds, unless its protected, which an assassin wouldn't kill them anyway. Will just be delayed a few seconds. --Deathwing 05:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you ever come up against wail of doom as an assassin? It does completely ruin the attack chain. For example, take a Shadow Prison sin. Spike takes 20 seconds to recharge. You get hit with this in the middle of a spike, its ruined (even a one or two second delay is enough) and they can keep shutting you down every time you tele in. --MasterPatricko 08:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I really can't see why sins would ever be attacking warriors anyway. No sin chain will kill 100al on pvp class hp. Not unless you pack in lots of degen. Even then it just takes too long. Unless your talking about AB or RA. Both of which I guess are free for all areas. Fro 09:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, and a disarm placed in the middle of an attack chain will also ruin it, particularly if any of the recharges are longer than 12 seconds, plus I'm not talking about *attacking* Warriors here, you can easily be hit by a disarm from anyone (not limited to monks who have this on their bar) I suppose Crit Defenses will be even more necessary on a 'sin bar now. --hadz 11:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * He is talking about monks packing this to defend themselves against melee spikes. --Xeeron 09:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

wisely uesd, this will be a perfect defense for any monk... It just kills warriors in any way, spike- and pressure-wise

Good luck to any GvG hammer warrior, especially running Backbreaker, trying to rebuild adrenaline every 12 seconds. Crip Slash Warriors are going to be all over hammer warriors every 12 seconds or even put it on the midline so the warrior doesn't get a chance to combo if it does make it to the monk or a monk with Balanced Stance and Disarm. This will be interesting to see in play, but I think it may need a drawback or scale from 0..2..4 in the future. Wail of Doom is going to see even less play than it does now. --Rururrur 13:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Would it be possible for this skill to keep the adrenaline charged, but just delay the buildup of adrenaline? Or maybe it could be an unremovable effect that prevents the target from using attack skills. Or maybe a downside, like disabling your non-attack skills or something? I'd like it to still be viable without making hammer warriors useless. Heh poor hammer warriors don't even have access to Shield Bash. skaspaakssa 15:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * One solution would be to increase both blackout and recharge, e.g 1..9 second attack skill disable and 25 recharge. Then it would still shut down well, but hammer wars get a chance to get a chain off before they get shut down again. Narayanese 20:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd really suggest to switch the 'disable' to 'can't use attack skills for x seconds'. Otherwise it's really too penalizing for warriors compared to other classes. And the 'can't use attack skill' mechanic exists with Vow of Strength, which doesn't disable attack skills but just doesn't let you use any if it's up. I'd even see the disarm lasts slightly longer, say 1..8 seconds, but DON'T make it disable skills, just make it so you can't use them. Patccmoi 19:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think this is super insane I'll play around with some numbers and see what I can do. ~Izzy @-&#39; 00:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You could try making it Require Min 7 Swordsmanship, or something around that (or 50% fail on 5 or less, etc) --hadz 05:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey izzy would you mind posting your thoughts on the suggestion that this skill be moved to the strength line and also on just how hard it would be to implement such a change? thnx Hector Mata ZoS

Disarm on a Backliner
Izzy, are you trying to eliminate hammer warriors? This really makes it hard to charge your 7-10 Adren Elite KD skills. This needs to be changed to give hammer warriors a fighting chance. Living Parasite 06:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Withering Aura causing perma-weakness. Smoke Powder stopping melee spikes cold. Earthen Shackles + Mark of Rodgort causing 90% perma-slow. Guess Izzy wants everyone to stop using warriors and run Melandru Dervishes instead, since they're immune to all of those and don't suffer from Disarm's adrenaline dumping either. 66.67.187.203 07:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Even mela dervs take a hit; if a necro hits em with atrophy right as they activate their form, it'll last 10 seconds :P - Auron 07:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And the new smiting skills, monks might start running smite now, further screwing over warriors :P. Least warriors get Symbolic Strike, so it all works out in the end. --Deathwing 23:59, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyway we can give this a fail 50% on 7 or less swordsmanship? --Racthoh 07:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Wrongful assumption ?
Why do people assume this skill will "dump adrenalin" ? The only things it states it does is:


 * interrupt target foe
 * disable attack skills for 1..4...5 seconds.

Nowhere is there mention of something like "target foe loses all adrenalin" so even though your attack skills have been disabled, you're still free to use your default attacks to build adrenalin to keep pumping.

For Great Justice anyone ?

As for sins - assuming you will have a free run at a spike, or not being defensive skills to counter attacks like this - well, IMO you get what you deserve. It's an interestng skill that creates metagame decisions and discussion. Good one. Clan Yumemiru 07:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ...whenever you disable an adrenaline skill, all of the adrenaline for it disappears. - Auron 07:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And "For Great Justice!" is terrible. - Auron 07:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

People "assume" this skill dumps adrenaline because disabling an adrenaline skill causes that skill to lose all adrenaline. --Rururrur 14:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah this correct, any skill that is disabled loses all adrenaline. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

How would you feel if this skill was moved over to the strength line?
ya i know some of you are already going WTF NOOO but wouldnt this fix some of the problems already mentions here plus give the skill added versatility after all its not a hard strethc to imagine being able to pull this off with just about any melee weapon plus if its moved to strength it would reduce its effectiveness to non warrior primes making a war still loose all his adrenaline but alow him to charge back up again after a secound wouldnt be so bad..least not as bad as the prior version..so your thoughts guys? Hector Mata ZoS

How about moving it to TACTICS, just because I think disarming someone should involve tactics not swordsmanship, and this way all warriors can use this skill not just sword warriors.

It wouldn't matter if it were moved to another line, it still disables skills for 1 second without any points invested. One second of disable wouldn't be a huge issue for a dervish or assassin, but for a warrior that loses all adrenaline because it's skills were disabled for one second is pretty crazy, especially when looking at the hammer warrior that commonly use elites with 8 to 10 adrenaline. --Rururrur 14:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Moving it to tactics doesnt fix the whole "monk blacking out a melees attackskills for a conciderable amount of time hence why i suggested strength it gives a non war prime the ability to still drain a wars adrenaline or to disrupt other melee for a brief moment without making said war/melee nothing more the a glorified minion while still giving war primes the ability to use one of their own skills more effectively.

True Rururrur you still wipe a hammer wars adrenaline but if its moved to strength its only for 1 sec which is a big difference compaired to 3-6 seconds the idea to move it over to the strength line is to fix the already seen problems as best and as easyly as possible while adding increased versatility and frequency of usage to a skill Gw has enuff totaly shunned skills as is...Hector Mata ZoS


 * I'm not opposed to moving it over to the strength line, I actually think that is a great idea as long as the disable time is reduced to scale from zero up. One second disable or five doesn't make a huge difference when every attack skill on your bar requires adrenaline with the exception of Crushing Blow.  --Rururrur 02:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Izzy!!! Move this to strength and give it a duration of 0-5 seconds :D! I think that would realllllly limit it's use. And give warriors a good way to stop each other and make things REALLY annoying when you happen to 1v1. Lou-Saydus 02:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think the game engine would like a "disable for zero seconds". It will probably drain adrenaline anyway.
 * You're probably right about that anonymous poster. --Rururrur 14:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * o.O probly not, if you disable it for 0 seconds... it dosnt get disabled.....--Lou-Saydus 00:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

What one axe and hammer skill and sword gets two. I think disarm should be moved to strength. MisterGrim

Icon
It looks like someone's about to disarm what looks like a stupid sword-wielding ranger *noticing the armor* O_0 P A R A S I T I C 03:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing the Ranger as the disarmer, not the disarmee. --Kale Ironfist 05:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think "Disarm" skill should only disable the skill that it interrupted, because if it stays like this it will be devastating to hammer warriors as everyone has stated in here. As this change the skill should also have something extra, like +dmg if you interrupt a attack skill (because if it wouldnt have that extra thing, the "Distracting Blow" would be still better skill to use. With the extra thing "Disarm" and "Distracting Blow" would be somewhat equal and you would need to make a choise which one to take if using a sword). And as for the statement, that "Disarm" could be moved to "Strength", I want to say that please no. "Disarm" should stay in "Swordsmanship" (just because "Swordsmanship" needs good skills so that sword skills are a good choise for pve too).

comment: 5energy 12second recharge blackout on melee classes thats even more devastating on adrenaline based melee like warriors? This is clearly a bit overpowered, specially considering the amount of anti-melee skills already in play. It requires a great deal of coordination to allow adrenaline based warriors to inflict their dps as it is... disarm just makes things worse. You dont even need to be a warrior to use this skill... a mesmer or ele midliner with a sword could use it with just as much effect as a sword warrior since the most effective aspect of this skill is the adrenaline loss.

suggestion: increase recharge to 20 seconds with an increase in the disable duration. That way, if a team finds itself under high pressure they can use this skill to disable a warrior or other melee class long enough for its monks to recover. With the increased recharge this cant be used all the time, and if it cant be used all the time, it has a dimension of skill to it. You actually have to use it when you need it most because if you waste it at the wrong time you wont be able to use it when you need it. I would also consider causing the user of this skill to lose all adrenaline or to be self-blacked out for a very brief duration.

87.194.81.41 11:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

" And as for the statement, that "Disarm" could be moved to "Strength", I want to say that please no. "Disarm" should stay in "Swordsmanship" (just because "Swordsmanship" needs good skills so that sword skills are a good choise for pve too)." this arguement makes no sense.. by moving disarm to strength we would be changing it from just a "sword" attack to a "melee" attack which works on all melee weapons ( Swords axes hammers scythe and daggers) so it wouldnt be taking a skill from sword users as for the just because swordsmanship needs good skills...etc theres nothing stating tha swords are bad for pve in fact my hero wars use sword..simply cus its a nice constant stream damage so this too is an irrelevant and ilogical reason..

your suggestion doesnt address the skills current problem with simply being too effective at shuting down a melee foe regardless of class aslong as you have a sword higher recharge wont fix this hence why its suggested that the skill be moved to strength which will still allow temp disable of attack skills but not to a point were a foe cant attack effectively.. Hector Mata ZoS


 * I'll agree that it's a ranger in the icon - IH 11:39, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As stated on the GuildWiki page, I think it looks like a Ranger flipping a pig over with a fire poker --66.67.187.203 05:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Melee attack?
So.... uhm which is it, sword or melee? Anybody? Or can it be used with all weapons? xD coughoverpoweredcough Lou-Saydus 16:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

It looks like Izzy's gone through and amended all the other attack skills to their proper weapon type, and this is still a general 'attack.' I don't know who's going to want to spec into two weapon attributes, but it looks to be possible to use Disarm with any weapon.

Change the Mechanic
Wiping adrenaline is kind of a big deal, especially if it can be done every 12 seconds with minimal effort and timing. I've seen a couple proposals around for ways the skill could be reworked without disproportionately punishing warriors.


 * 1: Sword Attack. If this attack hits, target foe is interrupted. If an attack skill was interrupted, all of that foe's attack Skills are disabled for 1...4...5 seconds.  (Still empties adrenaline, but only if you hit a skill; the presence of a linebacker is a deterrent, not a hard lock.  Skill doubles as a general interrupt, but only for swords.)


 * 2: Sword Attack. If this attack hits an attacking foe, that foe is interrupted and cannot use attack skills for 1...4...5 seconds.  (Borrows the vow of strength mechanic to prevent skill use without disabling.)


 * 3: Sword Attack. If this attack hits an attacking foe, that foe is interrupted and their weapon attribute value is reduced by 2...6...8 for 1...4...5 seconds.  (Not a skill lockout, but pushing a foe below his weapon attribute requirement pretty much nullifies the damage they do.  Does not prevent secondary effects, like conditions interrupts or KDs.)

I favor the first one, personally- a powerful effect tied to a somewhat demanding condition.

Interesting suggestions specialy 1 and 3 but as far as which is simpler to implement now ide go with option 1 but still suggest it be moved to strength and made into a general melee attack and not a sword only skill Hector Mata Zos

The issue with the skill is not the length of time that you cannot use your attack skills. If i am playing warrior, especially a hammer warrior the biggest issue i would have against ANYONE using this skill is that they can wipe out my adrenaline every 12seconds. It is a nice thing to be able to wipe the adrenaline of a warrior, but every 12 seconds is way too often. Increase the recharge and force people to use this skill wisely, moving it to strength without changing the recharge is not enough. The best way of ensuring that skills arent abused by classes that arent meant to use it, is to create a primary attribute requirement similiar to oath shot. Eg: this attack fails if strength is under 5. That would prevent other classes using it but who said assassins or rangers shouldnt know how to disarm people? How about keep it in swordsmanship but add the attribute requirement so that you need to commit points into swordsmanship to be able to use it? i still would much rather just see its recharge increased to 20 seconds but i also do like suggestions 1, 2 and 3 above. - Lorekeeper

If your gona put a primary att lvl requirement on it then why leave it in swordmanship anyway moving it to strength wouldnt prevent anyone from getting some usage out of it it would just prevent them from getting the extra nasty 5 or so seconds of attack skill blackout on their target while i agree that getting your adrenaline wiped in 1 shot every 12 seconds is nasty having them also blacked out for 1-5 seconds is just adding salt to an already paifull wound remeber while a skill is disabled it cannot be charged up which is why it should be moved over to strength. Hector Mata ZoS

Translation Suggestions
To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Disarmare / Disarmo --YukoIshii 23:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Spanish: Desarme (I'm using the noun, because the verb "desarmar" would sound too weird)--Ainulindale 00:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't Interupt Attunements
They aren't "attacking" skills. Dancing Gnome 22:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Updated description says it should, since casting an attunement counts as an action. Brownspank 09:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Nerfed
Considering the above discussion, I think Izzy did a great job ;) 20 and disabling for  seems good enough. On the other hand though... I don't think it was overpowered back then, but that's probably just me ;)  &lt;HORSEDROWNER&gt;  05:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * After looking at it, I think that making it so they can't use attack skills might have been more valuable overall. such that the mechanic was, "If you hit an attacking foe, that foe can't use attack skills for (1..4..5) seconds" or something.  As it is, this is only best vs adrenilin warriors.  I don't see a 3 second stall in attack chains against other melee classes being hurt as much as a warrior.  StatMan 19:30, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A load of rubbish now. Savage Slash says hi. Astralphoenix777 00:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

This skill is really not usable...
This skill is a decent concept and I generally like it on paper. However, ingame, it is not really usable because of lag. You are not inturrupting 2-4 second spells here. You are inturrupting skills that activate in 1.33 seconds with a 0.5 second cast.

I really don't see how this skill is usable unless you have one of those rare pings under 100.
 * It's not just attack skill, it also interrupts if they're attacking. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 18:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) Wire yourself to your router.
 * 2) Get better reflexes.
 * 3) Hit Frenzy.
 * 4) Interrupt everything.
 * --76.25.197.215 18:06, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

does
it disable att skills if the foe wasn't using one? -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:42, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * tested, it does -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it disable on a 0s duration? Also, the note is necessary imo. -- -Ch  ao  s-   13:33, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't, that was the point of the nerf, you can't just put this on a N/W and screw over warriors. Also, lol Chaos, lol. Misery  13:36, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever entertains you, but wut? -- -Ch  ao  s-   13:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's behaviour is exactly described by the skill description, an attack is an "action", so you interrupt an action, if that action was an attack, be it a skill or not, their attack skills will be disabled. Now do you see why it's redundant? If we kept that it would suggest we add a note to ranger interrupts saying that they can be used to interrupt autoattacks. Misery  13:50, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I realize that when I look at it, but wanted to test/confirm it because skill descriptions can fail, and in the 1v1 melee tourny I'm hosting atm a virtually unconditional adrenaline loss is strong ;o -- -Ch  ao  s-   14:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * lol again by the way. Misery  17:14, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wasn't my idea, but the responsibility was left for me. People shitted so much I had to ban skills. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:53, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Not As Bad As It Seems
I know two seconds of the enemy not being able to use skills seems shit but this is a masterful situation skill, say WoD is becoming a necro symbol, this can top it, or monk is hard to kill? use this then burst

p.s: for the people thinking this is a waste of slots--Hubbard The Dervish 14:29, 17 November 2010 (UTC)