ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ranger/Expertise

The thing is, expertise is only broken when compared to every other profession in the game. It is simply OP compared to every other primary attribute, and must be so because Ranger skills are Under Powered to the extreme compared to any other profession. The only other profession which can play ranger apart from ranger primaries is Assassins and even then they can only run one gimmick (critical strikes+critical accuracy=random interrupts). This is because of their extremely high energy costs for all their skills. Power Shot is like 1/3 of the damage of Power Attack and double the energy. All traps do less damage than most fire magic skills and still cost more energy (I know maelstrom ain't fire magic, but you get the idea). Interrupts drain your energy like hell and unlike certain inspiration magic interrupts, do not give energy back (sure they are more spammable, but what is the point of a spammable interrupt that kills your energy?). They sources of conditions all cost 10+ energy or are highly conditional (compared to warriors, dervishes and paragons).

The only actual solution to this problem would be to make expertise only have half effect on other professions (because that would be pretty balanced, if not a bit weak), because going back and actually re-balancing expertise and the energy cost of basically every single ranger skill would be too hard. Crimmastermind 03:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you 100% there. The solution? Nerf expertise, buff any ranger skill that isn't OP until it's borderline overpowered. The solution is:

I'm posting this on the suggestion page. Anet HAS to see this.
 * First of all, NERF EXPERTISE. Expertise should be an optional bonus, not a necessity.
 * Buff every ranger skill that isn't overpowered until it's competitive with any other profession's skills.
 * Give rangers more energy management skills. Rangers have an abysmally small selection of skills that cause the user to "gain energy". Change more ranger skills to give back energy since Expertise would be nerfed.

Rangers with only the first two chapters need more options
Right now rangers have very few viable bow attacks that aren't in Nightfall or EotN(the most EXPENSIVE chapters). Let's see:


 * List of useless bow attacks NOT in Nightfall or EotN


 * Power Shot-Just plain sucks. Waste of energy. No one is seriously going to spend 10 energy on 5...17...21 damage unless they have nothing else.
 * Sundering Attack and its echo-Someone useful in PvE, but if I catch anyone running this in PvP I kick them, for good reason.
 * Concussion Shot-Too conditional and expensive. Spear Swipe simply blows this skill away.
 * Determined Shot-Tried to do damage and recharge skills, but failed miserably at both.
 * Focused Shot-Ruins your DPS in the long run due to the attack skill disable
 * Marauder's Shot-Do we really need the skill disable?
 * Needling Shot-Never going to see any use outside a couple of niche "quick shot" builds.
 * Punishing Shot-Way too costly and easily replaced by non-elite savage shot.
 * Splinter Shot-10 energy for 3...13...16 damage. I guess Anet has a sense of humor.
 * Poison Arrow-Waste of an elite. You're better off using Apply Poison unless you really need your preparation for something else.
 * Oath Shot-Conditional skill recharge every 25 seconds. Not like Rangers have many skills worth recharging with this.
 * Quick Shot-If this wasn't elite it would be viable. As it is, it really isn't useful since it doesn't add damage and you're relying on your preparation and critical hits.


 * Borderline useful bow attacks NOT in Nightfall or EotN 


 * Broad Head Arrow- Good if you like to miss a lot but effective if it hits
 * Debilitating Shot- Too niche for low-end PvP and too unreliable against the high-end PvP blockway metagame.
 * Precision Shot- Suffers from an energy crisis as badly as power shot. The only reason why this is borderline instead of garbage is the unblockability. The interruptibility doesn't matter if you're not bad at using this.
 * Called Shot-Usefulness is covered in cobwebs. Maybe this could be used in some obscure builds with Apply Poison(to spread poisoned condition while being unblockable) but otherwise this skill sucks.
 * Dual Shot- The ONLY bow attack with both 10 energy and recharge. The only use I can think of for this is in Glass Arrows spike, or if you have a powerful preparation, or if you have nothing better to bring.


 * List of viable bow attacks NOT in Nightfall or EotN


 * Barrage in PvP
 * Crippling Shot
 * Pin Down-THE definitive reliable, no-nonsense bow attack that cripples your foes.
 * Savage Shot-Great for interrupt spam or range spike. Every ranger skillbar should carry this or Distractiong Shot.
 * Point Blank Shot and its echo-Efficient, spammable damage, but rangers aren't tanks.
 * Incendiary Arrows-Used to be slightly overpowered, but is just "viable" now.
 * Melandru's Shot- Still needs a small recharge buff, but is definitely viable because it allows you to range spike without having to bring pin down.


 * List of overpowered bow attacks NOT in Nightfall or EotN


 * Barrage in PvE, because monster AI mobs up.
 * Hunter's Shot-Overpowered actually, you get a good range spike skill for 5 energy and 5 recharge in a non-elite. Nice damage and conditional.
 * Distracting Shot-20 second skill disable for 5 energy and 10 second recharge? Overpowered enough so that it could be a dervish skill.

Note the lack of viable non-elite bow attacks. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:96.233.11.131 (talk).
 * Also, at the moment people without the last two chapters end up using the same build "Elite, hunter's, savage, distracting, 4 free skill slots."
 * Anet only cares about money, they don't care about balance. MMOs are inherently imbalanced because every MMO degenerates into "Whoever pays the most, wins the most."

Wow
Both of these suggestions suck. I think I have to post one soon. ~Shard  03:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I made a good suggestion. Read before posting. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:96.233.11.131 (talk).

Expertise is fine for rangers, however
comment here please Weaponmaster 07:26, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That just fixes the symptoms, not the problem. The problem is that Expertise has to be way OP to bring Rangers into the game (due to massive energy costs for effects that pale in comparison to any other profession). The symptom is that this means Expertise+any other profession is OP.Crimmastermind 21:00, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't that my point? What I understand is that, in our opinion, expertise is "balanced" when it is used with ranger skills and is OP when it is not. Please correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't it then be a good thing to half the cost reduction for non ranger skill thus making it...not OP. Because in the grand scheme of things it is the symptom not the attribute that is the problem, no? Weaponmaster 00:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Solution- Reduce cost of ranger skills, particularly bow attacks, and buff them. Then 25/90 expertise. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.29.217 (talk).

Talking about Nerfing Expertise
nerfing expertise so it doesnt effect (or less effects) skills from other proffessiions would completely remove ranger primaries from every type of build except a ranger with a bow. that would make playing a ranger incredibly boring, since you will have two options: you can use a bow, or you can use a bow and a pet, as other unique options (like my scythe thumper) would not work as well as if you used the other primary proffesion. this game is about synergizing between skill, atributes, and your primary and secondary professions. nerfing expertise would be like making mysticism only work with derv enchants, strength only work with swords, axes, and hammers, critical strikes only work daggers, fast casting only effect mesmer spells, spawning power only effect ritualist spirits (not ranger spirits or minions), leadership only effect paragon shouts and chants, and the extra energy from soul reaping or energy storage only usable for necromancer or elementalist spells (dont know how anet that would work) respectively (divine favor only effects monk spells anyway, so no comment on how to "fix" that). making expertise only effect ranger skills would be like doing the above to there respective profesions primary atribute. these kind of changes would make secondary proffesions useless, since every skill would be rebalanced to fit there proffesions primary atribute (i.e. mesmer skill would have longer cast times, ele skills would cost more) just like ranger attacks cost tons of energy). this would efectively make every character a clone of every other character of the same profession (not really but they would all be very similar, since skills from the secondary would be virtually useless). that would make this game just like WoW were you can tell EXACTLY what someone does by seeing thier class, and possibly thier race. that is what you are suggesting when you say "nerf expertise". /endrant (BTW i love rangers, if you couldn't figure that out from how much i dont support an expertise nerf) Githyan 15:06, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah pff, scythe ranger. the problem with those gimmicky scythe rangers is not Expertrise but the semi-god mode Escape ,the cheapest deep wound Pious Assult and the spammable enchant removal. Doesn't matter, this game sux now due to Anet doesn't care about balance anymore. They forgot about their goal of this game. GW WAS good before, no longer anymore.
 * my scytht ranger uses Heal as one, and i only bring pios in PvE (i bring banishing for mine capping in aspenwood). still bring rending touch, though its not all that powerful, its that most other straight up enchant removals have crappy recharges. Githyan 11:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem with scythe rangers is the scythe. Escape is only borderline OP.Crimmastermind 06:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if you think rending touch isn't that powerful, then think again. Rending Touch is a one skill counter to the best monk attribute, which is also the attribute that keeps most players alive.Crimmastermind 08:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)