ArenaNet:Guild Wars 2 suggestions/Level cap issues

A Cheap Approach
There would be no problem in raising the level cap if the experience points were given out at a higher rate. Say 4x, then the original cap of 20 would be still there in practice while players who feel the need of being high level would be level 80 as they wanted.


 * Why this is a good idea
 * Some people buy games because of leveling.
 * The core of Guild Wars and main promise will be saved
 * Players who played Guild Wars because of the level cap won't leave.


 * Why this wouldn't work
 * People may think that the leveling is made to easy.
 * Newbies won't understand it and think that it's a long way to reach 80.

Max Level
The numerical value of the maximum level doesn't matter to gameplay, only the time it takes to reach it. However, many buyers don't get this and will compare max level between games. Therefore the level should be set based on the max level for the competition.


 * Why this is a good idea
 * Extra sales, no effect on others.


 * Why this wouldn't work
 * No proof sales are affected by size of the level cap.

Soft level cap
Another option that could be used to implement an "infinite level" system is through the use of a "soft cap". In short terms, this would mean that power progress for characters is suddendly halted at a given level, and from that point the progress would be so small that the difference between a character level X and a character level X+9000 would not be overwhelming, while at the same time still existing.

By example, if we were to take the current 20 levels system, characters from level 21 onwards could be given a increase of +1 health following a formula simmilar to, which would mean the user would get: Note: if progress is too fast, change the root to a more appropriate one, or make the function asymptotic


 * Why this is a good idea
 * Ensures grinding is rewarded.
 * This would stop people from quitting the game simply because they had maxed all their characters.
 * This would add more replayability to the game since you could still gain levels from old missions.
 * This way there would not be an hard-cap group of elitist's.
 * For PvP, the bonus could be nullified, allowing PvP and PvE characters to stand on equal footing.


 * Why it may not work out
 * Some players have issues with any kind of grinding in GW and may be detracted by the presence of it, especially when there is no limit to the bonus you can receive.
 * May become the source of discrimination.
 * this could imbalance the hole game, higher the lvl the more wepons and armor there must be wich isnt a good idea


 * Needs
 * PVP equalizing. If it is allowed to carry over into PvP without any equalizing, only grinders would be able to PvP successfully.

Game Length Max Level
I believe the level cap in GW2 should be based on how long the storyline missions take.

In GW1, by the time you finished off the storyline missions, your character almost had to be level 20 due to experience gained from mission rewards and monster battles along the way. This felt like the perfect place to put the max level (You finished leveling when you finished the game.) Also, the way you leveled with the storyline made it feel like grind was almost nonexistent. This concept could carry over to GW2. If the story takes longer to complete, raise the level cap appropriately. When someone's character finishes GW2's storyline missions, make them near, or at their max level. To remove the feeling that a player isn't making progress once they do max out, you could have certain titles or items unlocked based on completing special tasks during some of the missions. For instance, say there's one mission where you have to defeat a certain amount of enemies. One of the special tasks could be to defeat all the enemies in 2 minutes. If the mission is completed in that two minutes, the player would unlock a certain title, or get a special item, or even both.


 * Why this could work


 * It would draw in the casual crowd, as well as keep existing casuals playing
 * It detracts from the stress and boredom of grinding to get hard cap level, and thus keep some players from quiting the game.
 * It could exacerbate issues of players not being allowed to join parties/guilds until they reach a certain level, i.e. level discrimination.


 * Why this might not work


 * It wouldn't be as popular with hardcore gamers.
 * Will be a sense of nothing to do once maxed.
 * Special task prizes might be unimpressive if everyone can easily do special tasks, and may cause some people not to try for them.
 * Any farming would mix up the whole system of gaining levels and experience.
 * All new storylines from new expansions would have to be the exact same length as the first one.
 * This would minimize the replayability of the game.

No character levels
Character levels in other MMOGs have led inevitably to "power-creep", making low level content obsolete. Even if GW1 managed to avoid most of these problems by stablishing a low level cap, the problem is still present when talking about low level itemization and skill tables to some extent.

As ArenaNet expressed some time ago, having no level on characters is a posibility that has to be considerated when talking about GW2.


 * Prestiege Armor & Weapons

If no character levels were created the developers could simply focus on creating new and unique armor, weapons, and other items available to characters who complete difficult tasks. That way players would have some goal to work towards, and they developers wouldn't have to create a leveling system that dictates how powerful a character is. The power of the character would simply be determined by how powerful the armor or weapons they have. This would also allow the developers to constantly create new amor sets and weapons, instead of working on new chain quests for players to grind through while they try and level their characters.


 * Why this could work
 * Would make GW2 a game that is really "different" from other MMOGs by eliminating once and for all the mechanic of "levels" and its relation with the power character atain.
 * No effort would have to be invested in creating and maintaining content for players that have not yet reached the "ideal status of power" into the game. Meaning all content would continue to be useful.


 * Why this might not work
 * Players have been taught by other games to expect such a mechanic, and the importance of grinding towards it. The game not having it may be offputting.
 * Players still have the need to receive a tangible reward for its efforts. Receiving no reward for "playing", or if the reward is easily attainable through alternate methods, may be counterproducent in the long term.
 * Players need a way to evaluate their opponents before engaging in combat, in order to decide if it is wise or not to do so.
 * Having steps for strengthening and growing building a charter is a good thing, not a bad thing.
 * IN real life people get stronger and gain more skill when theyinvest time into it so it takes out alot of realism.
 * It could makes u feel like there not much to look foward to

The 20 Level Cap is good, but what happens after isn't
GW1's best aspect is the level cap, the quickness of the game and changeability so you do not have to restart that character you have spent months on just 'cause of a minimum mistake, present in most MMORPGS. Getting to level 20 can be accomplished in a week and a half, without even finishing the storyline. Mastering the game requires much more experience and strategy than just reaching level 20. Enough good points, now the bad one: GW's developers have thought that a skill point is valuable and would motivate people to keep leveling and caring about exp. But particularly or not, I have NEVER been missing a skill point and needed to level up to be able to buy a skill, actually my skill points are always above 15 or so, you really do not need to buy dozens of skills, you buy the ones that fit in your build and some others you just wanna try.

Now finally the suggestion: PLEASE, ANet, don't take this really good feature of GW out! After getting to level 20, there should be a real motivation to keep caring for experience other than maybe titles, something that does not end, something you can keep training up and up, getting better and better, but still do not create disadvantages. Maybe each level higher after 20, you get some kind of point you can spend to access something of your choice, this way the advantages of keep leveling beyond level 20 are not gradual but of your choice. I mean, you won't get each level more powerful or have more items or anything like that. You can spend your extra levels just as it is done with faction currently, but not to unlock skills, heroes or items, but to unlock locations and PvE exclusive facilitative stuff like faster ways of moving around maybe as map travels if they aren't included on GW2, or shortcuts from a point (town/oupost) on the storyline of one campaign to a equivalent point on another campaign (a Ascended Prophecies character would expend some of these hypothetical extra level points to teleport to the equivalent outpost on another campaign (Weh no Su on factions or having "Hunted!" quest on night fall completed). This would minimizate problems like the dificulty to get to an outpost which is far from the port city of the campaign.

Also, expansions and additional campaigns should include higher levels... I mean: for example you start a Prophecies character, get to level 20 and to the port city, then you go to another campaign or EoTN and then you will level up in your second storyline up to level 30 then you will choose your third storyline and level up to 40 and finally the last sotryline and level 50. Maybe it is a bit confused, I will try to get to my point another way: let's consider GW2 will have five paralell storylines (five campaigns/expansions), when you create a new character, you would be able to choose one of the five stories to start from. When you get to level 20, you will probably have gotten to the port city already, where you will choose your second story, do a quest to go to the other continent and start doing the primary quests there, until you get to level 30 and to the outpost that will let you choose your next story to go. Access to other continent while this not being the one you want to be your next storyline would be allowed, just because would be non sense you buy 4 extra campaigns and have to wait to use what you bought... I am considering "storyline" here as the sequence of primary quests and missions and not the secondary quests. Getting from 1 to 10 should be as quick as getting from 11 to 20, 21 to 30 and etc...

Summing it all up:
 * Leveling up beyond level 20 and maximum cap level would give each level a small amount of points which you can use for PvE exclusive stuff, and still give the skill points it currently does.
 * The sorylines should be used one as continuation of the other, on the sequence the player may want while not blocking access to secondary quests and outposts, areas, etc of the continent where you aren't yet playing its storyline.
 * The first storyline you play should get you to level 20 and to port city, the two requirements to play additional storylines you have bought.
 * Each additional storyline you play, provides a increase on maximum level cap of 10, so the level cap would increase along with the stories you buy and play.
 * Leveling shouldn't get longer on higher levels; leveling from 1 to 10 is as fast as leveling from 51 to 60 (if this level can be reached)


 * Why this could work
 * Would keep the special and unique feature of GW of changeability and quickness.
 * Would REALLY motivate to keep leveling
 * Players would have much more to do other than getting to maximum level caps and finishing storylines, there would be locations paralell to any storylines, or even little storylines paralell to the main one.
 * The game in my opinion would be almost perfect(i think there should be the option to do something like scrimmage (on GH) but on PvE areas, with your friends which are not from your guild or ally)


 * Why this may not work
 * Anet isn't planning to have so much of a storyline, but according to Gaile it will have a more 'sandbox' environment.

Easy to reach level cap
one of the most appealing aspects of GW is that the level cap can be reached really quickly but the game still has a lot to offer even after you've hit max level. Getting max level gives a player a sense of acomplishment and hitting max level without much grind is certainly appealing since it opens up new possibilities and incites the player to keep playing.


 * Why this could work
 * It would ensure that the game is ballanced and that players get equal chances in PVP or high level PVE regardless of the amount of grinding they've done.
 * It would motivate potential players to try the game because the low level cap would mean a player would be able to access most areas of the game faster than in other MMORPGs


 * Why this may not work
 * Players might find it less motivating to play after they've reached max level.
 * Some players might prefer a high level cap due to the fact that it differentiates between players and it also better reflects the amount of time and effort they've invested in the game.

Levels over level cap
Levels after level cap could be treated they way elite armor is - the only diffrence beetween it and normal armor is that it simply looks better, so you dont need it to play the game, but it's nice to have it anyway. So addiional level could give some nice visual effects, like glowing aura of your character, lightning going through your characters body etc. This would probably depend on proffesion. High level characters could also have elite versions of emotes, like in GW1 diffrence beetween normal and collector's edition emotes.


 * Why this is a good idea
 * Levels over cap don't change balance of game, but players will have some motivation to acheive them anyway.


 * Why this wouldn't work
 * I guess this would be a lot of work for developers :)
 * Some players hate the overuse of visual effects/lightning in games.

Health and Energy .VS. Attribute Increase
If health and Energy had a cap rather than the level, it would give lower levels an opportunity to still be competitive based on skills alone. If attributes were increased per level and everything had an attribute then winning would be based on point distribution, build template and skill in using the template. Damage would likely have to be capped within a certain range of the health cap. Maybe an adaptive system that formulates the difference between 2 current opposing targets sort of the way the skill Grenth's Balance is in theory. then Health, damage or energy cap would not be necessary.

If there was an adaptive formula system for PVE against NPC's then no matter how high your level was there would still be the proper difficulty implied between you and the target NPC and only that damage calculated would be taken away even in a party of 8 at all different levels. However, there would still be the minimum level of the NPC before the adaptive modifier would come into play.

Example: if Said Boss/mob was Lvl 25, damage done to it by you or to you by it would be normal. When your level reached 1 level higher than the boss/mob the adaptive system would then begin calculating the difference and subtract it so no matter where you were you would constantly be challenged and never seem to powerful.


 * Why this is good?
 * Even if you were 20 levels lower, but both of you fighting were health and energy capped, you could still find a way to negate your opponents AC or interrupt/condition him enough to still have a chance.
 * keeps everything a challenge
 * keeps balance throughout the game in PVE and PVP without having to totally negate any bonuses.
 * Why this is not good?
 * Health VS Damage could be an issue. I would think a smart build would put more attribute points into a armor modifier if there was such a thing to compensate for the health cap.
 * Some may not like the fact that you can never be to powerful to even lower mobs that you have surpassed.
 * Still in PVP it would not be a FLAT standing and may still need to be negated.

The Level Cap Answer
If there was NO LEVEL CAP:


 * 1. In GW1 after level 20 you only encountered mobs over your level in rare or elite areas. As far as PVE is concerned, if your permanent Max Level was more than 1 level above the highest MOB in a certain area, then it should trigger a temporary cap for that area giving you a proper elite buffer.
 * 2. When you go back to the higher level area or an area where you haven't reached it's Area Level Cap (ALC) then you are set back to your current level.


 * Example: Say for instance, you are level 25, you go to an area where the highest mob is level 18 and the henchmen cap out at 15, you should cap out at either level 18 or 1 level above the highest mob level making you 19. When you get to an area that the highest is equal to or higher than your current level, your level would be set back to the max you have gained.


 * Why this is a good idea?
 * You can help others fight in lower areas without spoiling the challenge.
 * If Full PVP was implemented, this would lower the risk of being grieved.
 * This would promote high level characters staying in high level areas.
 * Power-leveling would be harder.


 * Why this wouldn't work?
 * This would basically take out all the fun in being high-level in PVE since your level would just be downgraded.
 * Overly complicated.

The Level Cap Answer 2

 * Like the person above me said that there would be no cap, but sort of temp. lvls, what i was thinking was that each area had its own lvl cap, so in the absolute hardest area with say lvl 35's you could be lvl 36, or the lowest area with the highest lvl of 5 when you went to that area FROM the hardest area you would be lvl 6 and when you went back to the hardest area you would be lvl 36 again so there would only be area based lvling


 * But if you just got to lvl 6 from the last area and wanted to go to the place with lvl 10 at max you would stay at lvl 6 gain experience up to 11 then you could move to the next area until the monster lvl was maxed


 * Why this could work
 * keeps almost everything a challange, that way you cant go on your highest lvl charcter into a low lvl area and kill basicly everything with one hit instead your lvl would be reduced and it would take more hits to kill a low lvl monster


 * Why this might not work
 * people might want to run around and kill stuff in one hit for fun, but wouldn't be able to
 * People who want to go straight to an area with lvl 15's at lvl 1 wouldnt be able to and would acctually have to work their way up could get frustrated and quit

Another Approach
What if...


 * The level cap is raised some (maybe lvl 30) and after that you get medals or special time-limited or one-use items to show that you've reached as far as you have.


 * Why this could work
 * get titles based on the items you get after you reach lvl 20,30,40 ect
 * (Random?) item prizes for post-cap levelling, instead of/as well as the skill points from GW1? Provides a nice way to obtain items that are otherwise one-offs (possibly; Tonics, Ale or Sugar Treats)


 * Why this might not work

Level 20+ as a title
it's a good idea when player as soon as he reached the level cap (e.g.: 20) a title appear, after that when player gains a new level it adds a point to that title track
 * Why this could work
 * a new title
 * a good reason for grinding


 * Why this might not work

Scaled Leveling
The idea would be that levels gradually do less and less for your character. As an example, you begin like in GW1 with your character starting at 100 health. From second to 20th you get 20 more health per level. After 20th, the health gained reduces by one each level, so you get 19 more health at 21st, 18 at 22nd, 17 at 23rd, etc. until you get down to 1 extra health per level where it stays until max level of say 100 (just for a nice round number).

This will still have higher values than the original GW, but it'll just call for some game balance number crunching.


 * Why this could work
 * Gives players a simple marker of their progress without making the game all about leveling.
 * Higher levels do give some advantage, but it is tempered.


 * Why this might not work
 * People sometimes don't like compromise. They'll either want super leveling or no leveling.

Experience Based Titles
Instead of raising the level cap to higher than 20. Why not just add a title that increases in rank depending on how much experience you have accumulated on a character while still keeping the max Level at 20. Say if you are level 20 but you've gained 4million experience you can have a title that you can show that will be just as elite as showing off a higher number level without a difference to how it effect gameplay.


 * Why this could work
 * Keeps the level cap at a fair and recognizable state
 * Awards players who continue to play characters that have already reached the level cap of 20
 * The title can be shown off to others as a bragging right


 * Why this might not work
 * Some people believe they should be rewarded with more than just a title

Keep it
What is on of the biggest things that separates GuildWars from other games? It's level 20 cap. It has a charm: You reach your high potential at a rather short time, and you don't have to endlessly grind. I liked it this way, so I chose GuildWars over many other games, and so did my friends. But, if you take away that charming view, that can lead to many things: I suggest that you keep the level cap as it is, the nice 20.
 * If you give no limit to the cap:
 * Discrimination. I can run a mindless build (or setup as it can be), or I can grind my life out, and get to level 10^5 (100000). Or I can be a good player, and not waste 20 hours a day grinding, and acutely enjoy the game and experiment; either with Profession or with build. Lets say I reach level 200, much less than our Grinder. I try to get into a Party, and the other person is the Grinder. Who do you think will be chosen? Reminds you of something?
 * What does it give me?. What will level 50000 give me, that level 100 won't?
 * If you limit it to a high level (80 for example, like WoW):
 * Again, I will probably need to grind in order to achieve the high level. Whats fun about Grinding?
 * If indeed GW2 is played in 1 big chunk, and not the Instances, than PK (Player Kill) will probably be in place. And of course, what does a good level 20 player got to do against a bad level 80?
 * Why this could work
 * No Discrimination (or limited Discrimination) over level, or Grind.
 * There won't be Grinding in place, which is a huge thumb down at other games.
 * Players will have a fair chance against each other, and will not be tested according to their time played, but according to their skill/
 * keep everything balance enstead low level cap makes pvp work alot better
 * Why this might not work
 * Some people enjoy having no life and grind.
 * People like big numbers.
 * Many people also like the big level, and don't get why the cap is low. They think that leveling is the only thing that a game has to offer.