Feedback talk:User/Qaletaqa/Racial Buff or debuff

Interesting...there is a system like this in Dragonica. Each class (4) gives a different bonus to the group. It promotes having a group filled with the same classes though. 3 classes are physical based while one is magic. You can, of course, guess the physical classes have little to gain from increased magic attack, while having a group of the 3 physicals would be better overall...--Underwood 00:50, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know the game you mentioned but what i'm aiming at is to get diversity within groups by utilizing as many races/professions as they can, also this would encourage people to play more in a team then goeing solo. I've also never trully liked teams only using two-three professions, there are 10 if i'm correct. Alltho those kinda teams still wouldn't be weak.


 * Also this can still be changed so that, if they still use a reputation system between races, that it could change what you bring to a party or how much you are affected by the buffs/debuffs. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg|talk]] Qaletaqa Hania  01:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * While interesting, and a similar concept is used in other games, it is complex, and creates a steep learning curve for new players, and has rarely been documented in a manner that is clear and concise, compounding the matter. It also tends to present extreme balancing issues, which are difficult to correct once they are in place and under widespread use.  Further, it eventually leads to a specific class/race/profession being the most dominant/commonly used because it provides the most favored benefit (especially when stacked) making certain areas harder and forcing the other combinations to experience much more difficulty in leveling and progression without an excessive amount of experience and enough skill to solo most of the game.  Worse yet, it makes for some very ripe farming areas when attempting to make regions/areas that are predominantly populated by a specific type of NPC/monster type (ie: undead with mainly melee attacks...weak to ranged holy damage, so a single player with a couple of hero/henchmen that are class "X" dealing ranged holy damage, recharging energy faster because they are race "Y", having multiple stuns/snares because they are profession "Z" and casting farther/faster because they are all the same race, will easily dominate the entire area quickly and easily, harvesting loot with great efficiency)  If we are to have a diverse character population throughout the game, there is not likely a viable method of instituting this type of buff/debuff without making such an effect exceptionally insignificant, and slowing game performance for no viable reason. Gwynna Vive 13:59, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for mentioning certain things Gwynna, some things I overlooked. But what I don't see happening is one class/race/profession beeing dominant, well maybe in certain areas but that is already happening without a system like this.


 * Also this is a idea that was team based not solo, wich is probably a mistake. But I have a way to test this, maybe test it with monsters also getting this buff/debuff and how it would impact solo play. It'll take a few months or so to make my test as I have to script the whole thing. I'll also experiment with things that could be done when someone is goeing solo and or using hero/henchman. Maybe only add this debuff when a certain number in the group is reached, let's say if the group contains less then 4-6 party members that it wouldn't get the buff/debuffs. But i'll have to check if it is possible to do all that in the engine I use to test it, it will be complicated but once tested i'll have some stats.


 * Anyway If it's to hard to make that test i'll just drop it because I don't wanna spend to much time on this. It's just an idea and i'm just one guy. Anyway thx for the input, you have given me alot to think about. [[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg|talk]] Qaletaqa Hania  18:23, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * This is actually a real good idea, it would encourage teaming, integration of playing styles, and enhance group farming. Also what could be done is like in Oblivion, Charr have better ranger and warrior type classes, wheras Humans have better mesmer and derv skills, sylvari are good healers and sins and rits, Asura are pro nukers and the like, norn are good tanks... they could share many pros and cons, just a thought --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Mister Eviscerator.

I really like your general idea. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time with the way it was worded. For example, "for every non-Charr in the party". Does that mean to apply this de/buff to non-Charr, or is the de/buff quantity multiplied by the number of non-Charr?

Anyway, you would need to very careful with this feature. You want to make sure that parties composed of only one or two races are discouraged or significantly less advantageous than diverse parties. Yet, you want to promote people teaming up with each other, as opposed to solo farming.

Here is an alternate to your suggestion. Each race has its own title. (Charr Title: Each member in your party will have a physical damage boost of +0..6%.  Stacks with other Charr titles in your party.  Maximum boost after stacking is +10%.)  Early in the game when the title ranks are still low, it won't matter as much to have lots of Charr. As the ranks increase, parties are less willing to have more than two or three Charr since the additional Charr will not add to the boost. Imagine:
 * Diverse party of 8
 * +10% physical damage (2 Charr)
 * +10% elemental damage (2 Sylvari)
 * +10% HP (2 Human)
 * +6% energy (1 Asuran)
 * +6% AR (1 Norn)
 * Full Human party of 8
 * +10% HP
 * Solo Norn
 * +6% AR
 * Diverse party of 4
 * +6% elemental damage (1 Sylvari)
 * +6% HP (1 Human)
 * +6% energy (1 Asuran)
 * +6% AR (1 Norn)

Lastly, this should only be applicable in PvE. Race should have no advantages or disadvantages in (Structured) PvP. --Arngrim 04:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time with the way it was worded. For example, "for every non-Charr in the party". Does that mean to apply this de/buff to non-Charr, or is the de/buff quantity multiplied by the number of non-Charr?"


 * I almost didn't know myself anymore, but it would be to apply this buff/debuff to non-Charr.


 * And I gotta admit very good alternate, it's exactly what I wanted but less complicated, I tend to overcomplicate things when it can be done easier. You should make a suggestion page, if you don't wanna do that maybe I can change my page and mention your alternate suggestion?


 * And I agree that it should only be applicable in PvE. --[[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg|talk]] Qaletaqa Hania  05:14, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I actually like your alternate suggestion more then mine, been a while since I came up with mine and after reading it again I can see the flaws in it. Now I feel like deleting my suggestion and use yours :P. --[[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg|talk]] Qaletaqa Hania  05:23, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you like it. Feel free to use it as your own.  --Arngrim 05:46, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * TY, i'll adjust it and simplify my suggestion, i'll mention your name tho... --[[Image:User_Qaletaqa_sig_icon.jpg|talk]] Qaletaqa Hania  06:18, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * nope, I don't like this suggestion, we already will have balanced parties WITHOUT this suggestion, don't fix what isn't broken. It would also Limit what classes would play what races, as A warrior would have no need for a 10% more spell power. meaning no asuran warriors. But who doesn't want to see an asuran running up with a hammer and being just as effective as a charr? Roflmaomgz 13:47, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I suggested to increase physical and elemental damage as an example. It can be exchanged with some other, more neutral, quantity.  I think health, energy and AR are all pretty neutral, favoring no specific profession(s).  (You can argue that warriors don't need extra energy.  But given the option to have more energy, I'm sure you will see many more variations of warrior builds.)  So, instead of increasing physical and elemental damage, maybe increase movement, increase skill activation and attack speed, or increase skill recharge rate?  --Arngrim 20:22, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry but I still don't like it. people will be balanced without this in place if there is no reason to choose an asuran over a charr other than looks, if your thing is balanced races, you will have an easier time finding 1 of each race rather than 8 of the same. take assassins for example, you don't see many (if any) 8 sin groups forming because not only would it not work out well, but its hard to find 8 sins in the first place, but it's easy to make a balanced group in comparison. this suggestion can only end up with unbalanced parties since there is no reason to differentiate between a charr and an asuran other than looks. BUT YOU ARE GIVING A DIFFERENCE. Besides, if 8 asurans want to team up, why restrict it? it's not like you have to participate if you don't want to. I doubt it will happen as I'm sure finding 8 asurans will be harder than finding more "balanced" teams. also it makes sense lore wise for asurans to hang out with asurans. anyways I don't mean to rain on your parade, just giving my opinion. Roflmaomgz 22:24, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

"GLF rank 6 asura"? No, thank you --82.139.15.74 22:12, 15 June 2010 (UTC)