Talk:Vow of Strength

Comparison to Aura of Holy Might
Does Aura of Holy Might badly own this? Can still use attack skills and doesn't use up your elite. 58.110.140.189 07:48, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Aura of Holy Might is PvE only, and tied to an alliance title. This skill is usable in PvP and is easier to get to higher %s of damage, in my opinion. RitualDoll 02:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They stack. Use em both :)81.2.90.239 23:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Except Aura of Holy Might is better, for the reasons explained in its notes section. Also, don't run this, please.  Especially not in PvP. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  04:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I like doing this when H/Hing: Bring this + aura of holy might. Have a necro hero set up with an Orders build. Have a monk hero put Judge's Insight on you. Perhaps a Para with stuff like GFTE and other physical attack buffs. Best thing is that you have 6 skill slots for nothing but utility skills.

Hmmm, I wonder how AoHM + VoS + Asuran Scan and an Conjured weapon would work (assuming you could run all this without Zealous).
 * Does not work, since AoHM changes weapon type to holy. You either build to conjure, or you build to AoHM.--72.78.235.192 21:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

The math

 * IM doing this like a perfect wourld so no armor is calculated in.
 * if you do 100 damage, have r5 in alliance and 15 eath prayers
 * 100base AohM adds 25 dmage = 125 dmage
 * VoS calculates off of that and adds 62 damage so 187 dmamage by just autoattacking

Now with normal attacks

 * 15 Scyth mastery and r5 alliance
 * base=100 + AoHM = 125+20 from attack skill bonus= 145


 * either im crazy which i probably am but dosnt VoS own? The Golden Arrow 8:26, March 26 2008 (UTC)

that base dmg i calculated with crits go to the isle of the namless and wail on the master og healing for a few min and see just how rarely you actually do crit (the impact makes a dif sound) imo the scythes dmg range is all sorts of crazy. its rediculous for u to have 16 scythe master and hit a lvl 20 60 AL w/e and only do bout 15 dmg... true u can hit for like 100 but relying on luck to win the battle isnt cool with me. at least the sword gives u constant and dependable dmg outputs. oh and i still hit for like 15 dmg against a monk with VOS gives me like +44% dmg ant rank 13... rediculous, sundering scythe with heart of holy flame on so its not like i'm hitting some Xtra phys damage armor buff... 70.3.123.208 08:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Criticaled with VoS, AohM and Asuranc Scan at 273 top damage... maybe we should think about playing builds with that ;) Noctarch 15:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Could always run Crit Scythe with this instead of WoA. Just use this, Crit Eye, WotM, and a balanced Crit, Scythe, and Earth att spread. I ran it forever ago when I could actually use GW and it wasn't all that bad. Usually around 115/swing. 99.141.192.117 22:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Aug Update
Nerfed.... thanks ANET... :-/ SabreWolf 05:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not nerfed. I'd say it's more usable now. - 203.59.241.3 08:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No its basically nerfed. How often are you coming across a team in which no one uses conditions? If they wanted to use it with attack skills they should have either lowered the +% or lower the duration.~Falcon71.198.125.174 16:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

lmao dude are you insane? an Axe warr or heavy kd sin are godly w/ this now, just cuz you do less dmg w/o conditions desnt mean you cant use conditions at all, you just have to use it appropriatly. Eviserate on an armor pen axe hacker w/ this is leet. --~Phill Gaston ‎ 16:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok... then if you use skills with Condition, or your team mates do... then why use this skill? They are not godly with this skill.. this skill sucks now... everyone uses conditions almost, so this skill now is junk compared to what it was... Eviserate??? it causes a condition, so why would you use it with this skill... espcially since Eviserate is an Elite... fail... SabreWolf 17:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Go go turret ranger! Lightblade 02:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya i mean come on. You get 2-3 attacks with boosted damage. Big deal. And most likely, thats per mob as heroes/henchmen use their condition spells on more than one target, or have AoE effect. Now if you plan on running this in a full human/hero team that lacks conditions and/or few single target conditions(like DW to spike health down. Daze on monks.), then and only may it be called useful. Even then you have much better elites to choose from, like Eviscerate. And as a war or sin you can place those Earth Prayers points into something else more effective(higher strength/tactics or crit/shadow/deadly arts.)~Falcon71.198.125.174 03:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

NERFED TO DEATH. No where is not bringing conditions viable. When Izzy says "interesting" he means "worthless". 71.127.159.233 05:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ok, granted, you can use actual damage skills with this... but I still prefer the old version so you dont have to deal with conditions... revert? SabreWolf 22:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes for the love of god they need to revert it ...or atleast pick a less common "exluder" than Conditions (how bout Hexes/Enchants?). ~30% more dmg isn't worth an Elite slot if it doesn't last the whole fight -- ilr  (Aug 2008)
 * If they're going to keep the conditions factor how about reversing it, putting it on the player/user. You do bonus damage if you're not conditioned, or even conditioned and hexed [shrugs]. I can't think of many areas I would use this skill, PvP or PvE, conditions are just too useful to not use. 000.00.00.00 19:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But if used intelligently, this skill is actually good now. Use it to deal massive DPS until someone is low on health, and put on deep wound for your spike.  Just don't do it too early.  I'm not saying it's amazing, but it's better than the piece of absolute shit it used to be. 69.40.251.148 03:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

No this is gay, ALL Mellee... Weapon Master classes(to include bow and spear) need to apply Conditions. More specifically deep wound. now they have taken a turn in the right direction, and I agree that there has to be some limiting factor here. But no Conditions? No sir thaats not going to work. Thats like makeing a Curse attribute spell that only has effect if your target is not hexed. It just doesnt work. This is a martial weapon buff that takes away the greatest advantage to marial weapons, that doesnt work.

I realy cant think of another solution to this at the moment. maybe, For 20 seconds, your attacks deal 5...29...35% more damage. and your attack skills have and additonal 1 second recharge time. this would prevent crazy spam attack builds. thats a terible idea actually but i try not to burn skill changes w/o at least giveing a suggestion. 70.6.52.198 14:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)Auron Bushi


 * The idea is to use this for DPS and apply deep wound only on spikes, instead of putting it everywhere like with WS. However, with all the buffs to conditionway builds, this is probably going to see very littly play anyway, and WS is probably still better. 69.40.251.148 16:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Due to being in the Earth Prayers attribute line, Vow of Strength used to be useful in conjunction with other earth enchantments like Veil of Thorns that would apply conditions to enemies. That synergy is dead now, which is a direct reduction of functionality. The only reason I ever used to use this skill was because of synergies with other Earth Prayers; this skill is now less useable than it was before. User:STALWART 12:44, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be even better with the current state of Visions of Regret, because you'd give a load of damage while not activating any attack skills. Too bad they changed this one now... KazDoran 15:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I like this skill because it wastes the Restore Condition elite slot and condition removal spells the enemy brings. Just set up to kill without conditions and bring more enchant removal or hexes.  It's exactly because conditions are so ubiquitous that this skill is useful; the enemy team always brings a bunch of skills to remove them.  I agree that it doesn't synergize with other earth spells which almost all cause conditions though. - Elder Angelus 14:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I was pretty pissed when they changed Vow of Strength because I had a pretty awesome pvp/pve build using it. Now it's like, "wtf?" I don't get why Anet insists on changing skills like this especially since I doubt anyone was abusing it, let alone using it regularly. I found the original VoS fairly usable and ignored people who said negative things about it; if I can make a build for it, or if other people can make successful builds around it, why should we get punished because other people aren't happy with every other skill that they have and think it's unplayable? User: Zahrim

Bonus Damage
Does it affect bonus damage? Ie, does it increase the bonus damage from Victorious Sweep? frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 00:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC) ...Who cares? 71.127.159.233 16:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems to add +41% to the base damage then add + damage after, could be wrong though 88.105.97.195 13:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Crystal Wave/Teinai's Crystals
Might be a bit of a stretch but...possible synergy?--Light of Homsar 17:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Using that combo quite often gelei 16:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's probably better to find a target without conditions rather than strip your allies conditions off whichever target you decide to attack (and any adjacent). Misery 16:20, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

That is the first thing i thought when I saw the update, the crystal skills, but removing conditions which your party is trying to inflict will ruin your party builds. I mean for a reason your elementalist blinded that dervish, assassin or warrior. It may have some synergy with the crystals but is more of a "lone wolf" thing and not team supportive pressure damage like before.--Wealedout 18:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should be mentioned. Depending on the build and group, whether you're by yourself or heroes and henchies, whether you're with a PUG or your guild, you may or may not want to bring a condition-removing skill for foes who put conditions on themselves. Leave it up to the reader to decide. -- Talonz [[Image:User Talonz sig.gif]] // 18:01, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why are you gimping your bar for the occasional Wearying Strike, Signet of Agony or Chillblains? You could take Pious Assault instead and have just as much effectivenessa against preconditioned foes, or just take ANY OTHER SKILL and increase your overall efficiency against all opponents instead of a few random ones. Skill slots are important, don't waste one on crappy synergy. Terrible advice is not a good idea on an information resource, drop it. Misery 18:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you couldn't use Vow of Strength at all. Bad skill is bad.  It was better when it forced you to auto attack tbh.  Honestly, melee without deepwound is...sad. 68.58.99.133 18:13, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Honestly, melee without deepwound is...sad.".I think it should be law, melees need Deep Wound. So yea, don't waste slots on "crappy synergy".--Wealedout 02:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

PvE monster massacre
I wonder if they noticed that while they ruined this skill, they nullified pretty much every enemy that uses this skill in PvE. They've all at least got Aura of Thorns or something like Staggering Force. =\ And they'll always use that before attacking. 71.127.159.233 16:18, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Like Onslaught monsters also using Heart of Fury. But they should make the new skills useful before updating monster builds. Noctarch 02:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * anet buffing monsters isn't likely unless they become completely retarded. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 16:31, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * lol, basically none of the monsters/henchies ever got updated since their skill updates, thats why there are assassins whose attack chains no longer work, this thing, etc. A-net doesn't give a sh*t about PvE "balance", and they buff/nerf skills at will about "high-end PvP" which stuffs it up for everyone who doesn't spend their lives 24/7 on GvG. PvE became easy, but then they supper-buffed some skills and suddenly while most areas of PvE became super-easy, some became a whole lot more annoying/shitty/crappy/waste 2 hours to max a title (I'm talking about Hell's Precipice, ever since the stupid Life Transfer buff it's now impossible to complete bonus without clearing everything first)Crimmastermind 08:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * personally, im just glad u can use attack skills now. i dont how long ago this was changed, but i hardly ever used a condition based dervish, and i understand how many other earth skills this nerfed, but i still think it was a change for the better Valion Sentis 00:07, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Outdated synergy information
IMO it should be removed. -- Gordon Ecker 00:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously. Unless it's famous trivia, in which case it can be meantioned in the trivia section. I don't think there is an issue here. Backsword 14:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Crystal Wave or Teinai's Crystals Note
I think it should be included, due to the fact it is relevant since this skill requires no conditions on the foe. Whether it should/shouldn't be used is a personal/subjective manner and on the wiki we should be objective not subjective.- TheRave (talk) 11:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There has been an RfC active for this for weeks now with no comments, but anyway, why should we include terrible advice? It's already been discussed that removing conditions your allies apply is a terrible tactic, which reduces the effectiveness to working against opponents which self-inflict conditions which is very rare and there is no area in the game where every or even a majority of the creatures take self-inflicting conditions so it isn't worth a skill slot. This is a precedent case that you should be careful with. If this terrible synergy stays I will take that as a green light to go add terrible synergy to almost every skill on the wiki, because believe me, terrible synergy exists for almost every skill. Misery 11:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Not much else to say, Misery covered it all. VoS impedes your allies and costs you a lot for the privilege of impeding them. --71.229.253.172 11:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not setting any precedent, there is bad advice on a lot of skill pages. It's a question of reaching consensus about the note, rather that just engaging in a revert war. --[[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png | Wyn's Talk page]] Wyn 11:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether it is bad advice or not is/should be irrelevant. The statement itself does not say/imply that it is good to use it merely points out, to aid this skill those other two skills "may" be used, which imo makes it valid.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 11:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is that it does imply it's good to use because the note only lists the pros to using those skills. If you're going to suggest that TC or CW are used, then also list the cons that have been presented. Mr J 11:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not listing the pros, it is merely listing the facts. Those two skills do in fact remove conditions.  The only cons are merely subjective and therefore invalid.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 11:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What exactly is subjective about healing enemies for a hundred health? --71.229.253.172 11:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I see. I thought everyone had to be an elementalist secondary with TC or CW on their skill bar in order to use the skill and that beneficial conditions such as deep wound, degenerative conditions, and blind were normally applied by players. I didn't know that only happens for some of us. Sorry about that. Mr J 11:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Its subjective because you are seeing that as a bad thing (which it may or may not be). From an objective point of view: this skill requires no conditions on foes, these skills remove conditions from foes (whether its a good thing or bad thing).  Or from an opposite subjective view this skill could easily take that 100 health.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 11:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Let us be objective today: Twin Moon Sweep has good synergy with Forked Arrow as it removes an enchantment allowing you to fire both arrows from Forked Arrow. Misery 11:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Signet of Pious Light has good synergy with Patient Spirit, as it removes the enchantment, triggering the healing faster and giving you an additional health bonus. Mr J 11:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Killing enemies is good. Helping your enemies and inhibiting your allies in exchange for a minor damage boost is bad.  I'm glad that you understand abstract thinking, but abstracting to the point of complete disconnection from reality is just fucking dumb. --71.229.253.172 12:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Mending has synergy with Signet of Agony as the regeneration counters the self-inflicted bleeding. Misery 12:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Melandru's Arrows synergises with Gash. Arnold Swiftspell 12:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wastrel's Collapse + Blackout. --71.229.253.172 12:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Where in the note does it say it has good synergy, for that matter where in the note does it say it has synergy at all?- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 12:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, you are right, it's a note about another skill altogether, it's on the wrong page and should be removed. Misery 12:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

sry interrupt but what mean synergy My neighbour&#39;s a darkie 12:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * IMO, it's not subjective. Removing conditions from enemies is bad - if someone in your party spent energy and time to inflict a condition, and you remove it prematurely without any advantage to said removal (like in Shatter Delusions), you have objectively wasted resources. The wiser thing would be to mention how it's better to use Vow of Strength in a party that does not inflict conditions, which IMO isn't necessary as that's a bit obvious. Erasculio 12:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Barbed Trap plus Trampling Ox. --71.229.253.172 12:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ebon hawk and heavy blow. Mr J 12:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hamstring and Fire Storm. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 12:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

what mean synergy N of tab&#39;s socks are in a room together. What is the chance that atleast two of Tab&#39;s socks that are present in the room share the same birthday? 12:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is the meaning of Synergy.
 * I think this is more of a discussion about what the wiki is/should be objective or subjective. I have not found any decisive description page either way, therefore, I can agree to disagree and therefore please feel free to remove the comment if you feel it should not be there.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 12:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Seeing as only one person was arguing for the note to remain, and an overwhelming number against, does that mean we have consensus? Also, please note I have been steadily removing poor advice from skill pages anyway, this just happens to be one I hit about a month ago or something. I believe that common usage should stay, for example SbS with SS, but why record bad and unused skill combinations? Bad and used is ok. Misery 12:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, consensus reached.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 12:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

There are some very strong options out there with Vow of Strength that hit well over a hundred and up to three hundred damage with each sweep of the scythe. For those sort of builds, Crystal Wave and Teinai's Crystals serve as nice utility skills. A skill isn't inherently "bad" or "good," rather it greatly depends on how it's used. The note should be on the page with a disclaimer, mentioning how it is not effective with other party members who utilize or depend upon conditions.

This is a wiki, and as such should be flexible enough to point something out to those who may find it useful. Of course it's stupid to bring in a PUG or another group where people may or may not rely upon conditions. There's no argument to that. However, don't ignore its utility in specialized builds. Hence, the need for the note, and hence, the need for the disclaimer. "Crystal Wave or Teinai's Crystals may be useful in specialized team-based builds that do not inflict or rely upon the infliction of conditions" would work fine. -- Talonz  // 20:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's kind of what I was trying to say.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with a note saying you need to build around the skill, but taking Tenai's is bad. Misery 21:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but Tenai's is not a "utility skill" in this case. I won't list reasons because I suspect it wasn't what you actually meant. In reference to your, suggestion about the note I must point out that if your team isn't inflicting conditions and/or do not want or rely on them, then bringing Tenai's is pointless. If they are bringing and/or relying on them then it's counter-productive to bring Tenai's. That's why we've been saying it's not worth mentioning the possibility of bringing it; because you either don't need it or you're working against your team. Mr J 22:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * By utility skill, I had meant a skill to fill in a gap in a skill bar slot organized around Vow of Strength. It's not necessary but can be useful given the situation, hence the utility aspect. I didn't feel I needed to clarify this, but the point to bringing a crystal skills is for the dozen or so skills that inflict conditions upon the user, disease, as well as some of the environmental effects - notably poison. -- Talonz [[Image:User Talonz sig.gif]] // 22:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Those are some really common skills in PvE. It is very much worth taking Tenai's on your dervish to "counter" those skills and human mobs that disease themselves. And your definition of a utility skill was different than I thought. oh well. Mr J 22:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, because Dervish skills are so terrible that you can waste one in areas where there are 4 guys who self inflict bleeding which you will kill in three swipes of your overpowered scythe anyway. That is much better than taking a good skill. Oh wait, terrible advice is terrible. Are there even humans anywhere that use rotting flesh? Misery 22:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I love how you use sarcasm to counter legitimate arguments. Can you point out where I said to always bring it on your bar no matter the place? Can you point out where I said it was useful to use in PvP? Can you tell me where I said that Dervish skills are so terrible that it's an option to bring this skill when you don't need it? No, you can't. So do not result to childish sarcasm.


 * It is useful and has been useful in many areas myself, and I have found that out personally. If you're vanquishing an area with chillblains. If you're going up against something with Tainted Flesh, or anything else that puts disease on you that can be transferred to the enemy. If you're fighting in Elona with Dervishs that Wearying Strike you. It is a conditional skill to bring on your bar depending on where you are going, hence the point of the little "disclaimer" I mentioned above, why you may want to bring it. Take the time to think about what I was said instead of insinuating I'm moron with your petty sarcasm. -- Talonz [[Image:User Talonz sig.gif]] // 22:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I can't out and say some things directly due to the policies of this site. You have 7 other members on your team, they can kill that one dervish that used Wearying Strike, or you can wait for their monks to remove it, they won't have anything else to remove. If you are in an area where there is lots of disease AND human opponents (a quick search for Rotting Flesh Human and Tainted Flesh Human returned nothing btw) then you can not use Vow of Strength in that one area. There is NO reason to take Tenai's Crystals. Terrible advice is terrible and listing it is advocating it. It would be akin to saying something like "It is possible to sacrifice yourself to death to take full advantage of this skills bonus damage" on Vengeance, why don't we say that, because it is stupid. I would like to think this site doesn't like to record stupid information. The large backlash at TheRave suggests that a fair number of users seem to agree with me. Misery 22:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I do still agree with Talonz, but if the majority think its irrelevant, etc. etc. then it makes sense to go with the majority. Partly to make my life easier and partly because the wiki is for everyone and it makes sense to please the majority rather than the minority.- TheRave [[Image:User_TheRave_sig.png]] (talk) 23:01, 7 October 20
 * Sorry, Talonz, but can you point out where I said that you said any of those things? Could you please go back and READ the sarcastic statement and get that I was implying that those skills you linked are very uncommon and human mobs that fling around disease are even more uncommon? I can't even think of any human mobs that carry tainted flesh, rotting flesh, or putrid explosion; please suggest some if you know any. Now... what was that about childish sarcasm countering your "legitimate" arguments? Mr J 23:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

condition removal from foes
A note should be added for skills that remove conditions from foes. Obviously tenai's and crystal wave has been discused alot on this page. Are there more? Any how im adding a note on those two skills. The note will simply be: "Crystal Wave and its duplicate Teinai's Crystals remove conditions from foes". If there are more skills that remove conditions from foes feel free to update the note. Also adding: "Conditions expire 50% faster on Prophecies' Bosses".--Justice 01:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Read the above section. Bring it up here before re-adding notes. It's been removed, again, which is fine IMO as teinai's is completely unrelated to this skill (aside from them both being junk skills). - Auron 12:18, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

re-adding it, i read all the garbage above. Peeps couldnt agree on wether it was a good combo or not. I simply added that the two skills can meet the conditions of this skill. and the prophecy boss note was fine. Remove again if you think its bad, but check here first with a real reason then just saying re-read all the previous garbage.--Justice 22:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

To not go into all the history pages and to have it here for quick reference for anyone, could you write here what was that about a prophecy boss?--Wealedout 16:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

prophecy bosses have 50% reduction on hexes and conditions. I gave up on the note section anyhow. i think i see the point more intelligent people were making about just letting the lesser peeps having their way once in a while to avoid a wiki war.--Justice 05:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

LOLSPIKE
this + asuran scan + a crapload of buffs + triple shot = LOL WUT 1kPvESPIEK? 82.34.128.19 12:14, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * you forgot frenzy for the foes 95.119.46.241 13:01, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You forget he's using R/D or D/R
 * You forget frenzy for the FOES, and you forget to sign.96.48.227.65 18:58, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

So....
Basically this skill's use has been reduced to small niche and practically useless build. How about simply changing this skill to "Adds +damage when you use attack skills. Ends if you cast a spell." With like 25 sec recharge, but keep a low cost. Well IDK seems so much more useful (and honoring it's name.. vow of strength.........) and if the +damage isn't too extreme, the skill won't be overpowered for PvP either. Kinda like Spirit Strength, with a different type conditional damage (attack skills). Just thinkin..... 84.104.81.205 18:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Your suggestions should be posted in on a skill suggestion page, where it may be read. Posting your thoughts here no likely have no impact. Just letting you know.—User_Rein_sig.png Re  in  18:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * thanks for letting me know, except I have no clue where to find skill suggestion pages. I'm not much of a wiki person, and the search function isn't helping... 84.104.81.205 19:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

i think that
this skill could use a srious buff...i havnt seen people using it in forever...if it got switched to requires a condtion for the dmg bonus that would be ok but still kinda out of the way....or even if the +% was lower but it didnt require anything else it would be an amazing skill...just saying kinda stupid right now
 * The only thing I've found to use this on is an extremely clumsy 3 second assassin spike. Sure, it's fast, but there's no reasonable way to pull it off consistently in any part of the game. -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  00:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Look at the Positives
If people would use their imaginations for constructive purposes for a moment (if you did, you probably wouldnt be on Guild Wars, but lets make an exception here), you could see this isn't as bad a skill as most of you make it out to be. For the record, the Crystals combo is terrible. Its simple to see that crystals was not meant to remove conditions in a suitably frequent manner for VoS. That being said, could you not simply WAIT the conditions off? Its not like (assuming you're building to create as much pure damage as possible, which you should with VoS) your entire bar is shot from the inactivity of one skill, elite or not. And getting to conditions, there are a scant few conditions that are at the same time useful, cheap, and maintainable (ex: blind, daze, weakness). I can bet in a prolonged engagement, especially in Hard Mode, there are times when foes will lose any conditions placed upon them. The extra damage from VoS in these times can suuure be helpful... Bottom line, what the implications of a VoS ally come down to is a choice between maintainable conditions, or extra damage; should a teammate bring conditions that they dont feel they will maintain or spread aoe, VoS is still safe to use. Also It should go without saying that this is a team-affecting decision, which is easier to manage in a H/H situation (I dont advise even attempting to persuade some of the spazes in this game to change builds). And I wont say this is an easy decision; the loss of a good source of weakness or blind in hard mode is quite the strain for the support crew. My persuasive essay aside, I do have a question. Whether asuran scan works in the same area of calculation as VoS does, I'm not sure. Assuming it does, do the two skills interact additively, or multiplicatively? And in either case, is there a cap on these percentage increases? --72.78.235.192 21:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * zzz wall of text &mdash;Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_sophisticated.png|19px]] 03:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

rephrased/tl;dr...

''Whether asuran scan works in the same area of calculation as VoS does, I'm not sure. Assuming it does, do the two skills interact additively, or multiplicatively? And in either case, is there a cap on these percentage increases? --72.78.235.192 21:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC) '' &mdash; derp de derp derp a tum tee tiddly tum ta tum Maf 05:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Multiplicatively, and no. &mdash;Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_sophisticated.png|19px]] 05:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

For once actualy try this before raging for a buff.

 * I've tested this with a team builds that use no conditions and rely on other sources for degen(Hex's) and found that a single derv with this combined with other buffs such as previously mentioned Asuran Scan and AoHM can dish out enough damage to cut down 1/5 a foes health with one hit. People, actually test this with other builds b4 you go raging at izzy and complaining. Thank you. Novos 17:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey guys, I created a team build entirely structured around making this skill usable, therefore it's fine.
 * It's not hard to not bring conditions. Just don't put spammable condition causing skills on your heroes. I like to keep one for burning and maybe one with deepwound from time to time... But if your target has burning and deepwound, it probably won't be alive very long anyways. FleshAndFaith 19:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So, basically, what you're saying is that I can use this skill, but I can't ever group up with human beings unless I have the balls to demand we not bring any fire eles, rangers, warriors, most paragons (anthem of flame, anyone?), dervishes, and necros who happen to be Curses, period, or to be fond of Disease/Poison. Half the builds for all the non-healers in the game, not including mesmers, frequently include conditions of some type. I don't want to harass my group like that, tyvm. Honestly, for general reliability, Cracked Armor > This. I've used this for a half-hearted farm build since the nerf, but otherwise, it has NO use. --76.166.187.131 11:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Having (figurative) balls is generally a good thing. That aside, if you're going to consider eschew conditions you might as well focus on hexes (which are, overall a better debuff anyway). Instead of thinking about this as some bad skill you have to struggle to leave conditions out of, think of the skill as an opening in a hex-heavy midline.--Ipsen 05:52, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem with that is that, at the moment, I do not control every skill in my group, even with h/h. Devona might happen to bring Weakness in this campaign (Factions, let's say). Which means I either need to bring some way of removing conditions on enemies, or not bring VoS if I want to bring Devona. I happen to be fond of Devona. That said, if the whole 7-hero update thing happens, I will bring this skill again. The problem with it currently is that it becomes worthless based not on what you do, but on what your group does. Conditions aren't generally amazing, I agree, but lots of people bring them, and bringing this skill makes it harder to play with humans, or even henchmen, which is a bit of an issue. --76.166.187.131 23:42, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Warrior
Anyone even thought of tacking this onto a war bar and making lots of pressure even with autoattacks? Sonic Sunday 04:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because it's a bad skill. 99.37.14.53 04:55, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Hypochondria
Perhaps can be some use with the current bug with Hypochondria? xP 24.26.209.34 11 March 2010

Crystal Wave
I am new to the game so forgive me if I am miscalculating in my statements. Vow of Strength is pretty useless as it is, because most henches deal conditions. That said, wouldn't creating a strong Earth elementist and giving him Crystal Wave and/or Teinai's Cyrstals (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crystal_Wave /// http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Teinai's_Crystals) and then using this along with Asura Scan and Aura of Holy might create an amazing PVE combination? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.235.215.186 (talk).

Also, in pvp this isn't bad since most decent pvpers have a way to get rid of their conditions. This + Rending Aura seems like it'd be pretty good. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.235.215.186 (talk).
 * Since Crystal Wave/dupe don't need any investment in Earth Magic to function as intended, you're better off as a D/E. That said, it's... not too impressive; CWave has a moderate cast time ( 0.75 &#190; cast and 0.75 &#190; aftercast), a high energy cost, and a fairly long recharge. You're better off getting some damage/support heroes and take Henchies that don't inflict conditions (the two monks alone go a long way in avoiding conditions). Easier to use, much more reliable, and frees up your secondary profession and a skill slot or two. --84.24.127.220 21:50, 14 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes you are right. I've been tinkering around with vow of strength in pvp and pve and it is absolutely useless. When I do manage to find someone in pvp that doesn't have a condition, they have some kind of a skill that makes the increased damage useless. Honestly, Vow of strength is so useless that it makes me not want to play GW lol. It has absolutely no use in any environment in the game. When it comes down to it, conditions are worth more than the meager dps boost that this gives. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.63.2.254 (talk).

Update
Derv FoWSC Spike anyone? Sand Shards, Extend enchantments, VoS, Vital Boon, Eremites + w/e 1.153.212.106 10:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the now o so powerful Reap Impurities, and in FoW almost everything is undead meaning double aoe boom damage!! 16:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Dont forget, VoS->Whirlwind->Eremite's->whirlwind->reap->whirlwind.--83.82.62.210 17:46, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Better and worse than Hundred Blades at the same time. Can be extended, even maintained, but is strippable as an enchantment. Should be interesting to see how a scythe handles this and Whirlwind Attack. Guildwarsrunner 06:22, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

It's strange to see this Vow skill not reflecting the same concept as the other Vow skills; for example, Vow of Silence has a backlash of being unable to use and having allies target spells, and Zealous Vow giving -3 Energy Regeneration. This Vow gives no backlash, apart from the 5 seconds of downtime that isn't really that big of a deal. To sum it up: this skill needs some negative side effect to be balanced; originally, it was interesting since it prevented players from using attack skills. Perhaps this could be reinstated into the redesigned skill? 71.127.10.226 03:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ... No. You're not trying to balance it by doing that - you're trying to make it consistent - very, very, different things. This needs no negative effects, it is perfectly balanced as is. Saying a dervish skill needs a nerf is like saying Paragon skills need nerfs, Dervish just got beefed because they sucked, I don't give a rats ass about consistancy at this point - just an operational profession that can be run as a primary.K2K 10:42, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

To be perfectly honest I din't think the dervish sucked before the update, it just took more thought to understand. In fact, I'm extremely confident and truly believe the dervish was better before the update. I played only the dervish class for 5 years, took a year in a half break and came back to this update, which in fact was not a buff, but a nerf. If you do not agree then you missed out, and truly don't know this class as well as you think.--ChefStefan 04:04, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

New Functionality on Attack or on Hit?
The new functionality reads that this does slashing damage "on attack with scythe". Does this require a successful attack/hit to trigger? Thinking of gimmick build by combining with Illusionary Weaponry through Mimicry. 72.129.101.130 02:35, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Exactly like Hundred Blades, Vow of Strength activates on an attack, this attack doesn't have to be successful to activate the elite. It activates before the actual attack, which is why it activates on blocked/missed attacks. This elite is indirect damage that gains the bonus through ebon battle standard of honour and skills that activate on physical damage. It doesn't gain benefits through skills like "I am the strongest" and Strength of Honour because it is indirect damage.--ChefStefan 03:54, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Similarities with hundred blades
From the notes section of Hundred Blades: "When Whirlwind Attack is used, this skill will trigger on each adjacent foe instead of just on the initial hit." After a quick test using Barbs, this seems to be true for Vow of Strength aswell, making it equally efficient. Can someone confirm this, and if, add it to the notes? -- 84.167.229.160 23:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Vow of strength and hundred blades are one in the same skill, the descriptions and skill behaviour are both the same. Vow of strength is in fact better because the scythe can hit three targets, activating the elite that many more times then hundred blades. Used with whirlwind, ebon battle standard of honour and sand shards on your bar, also with mark of pain and splinter weapon on your heroes bars, you will instantly kill fat mobs. Hands down this is the highest damage a dervish can achieve after the update. For those who are convinced there pious renewal build is greater they are sorely mistaken. The pious build is slightly better on single targets. If you we're to add in one more foe the Vow of Strength build comes out on top. I also use Staggering Force in conjunction with twin moon sweep on my bar to further boost my elites damage with cracked armor. --ChefStefan 03:54, 27 June 2011 (UTC)