Talk:Way of the Master

Woot!
Critical wander! about time! j/k -Kumdori 23:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

True, but this skill should be elite example: 16 Critical Strikes + Way of the Assassin + this skill + Critical Eye = 99% to critical hit (Fun but shouldn't be able to happen) Sword of Slashing
 * It's pretty fun I've played around with it and Scythes and Axes, doesn't seem that insane really, I'm sure some fun builds will happen because of this skill. ~Izzy @-&#39; 00:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * With just aggressive Zenmai (skills: "Owpj8hjaKPx5Bo+jA65CzQXmLA") using a scythe, elite Way of the Assassin, while I and two other heroes "avoid combat" (all their skills disabled), the four Zaishen in Training Arena quickly fall. There is no question that I would trade out Way of the Assassin for Way of the Warrior and then have to scratch my head for which awesome elite Zenmai then gets to use. Heck, I might get so jealous that I start playing my Assassin for real. Crystalion 04:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea agonizing chop would become a useable PvP skill with a better critical hit chance Sword of Slashing
 * Disrupting accuracy :) But yeah, this is a nice skill by A-Net which should see a lot of unconventional builds and creativity come to the fore. 203.217.0.53 03:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh? Agonizing chop is already all over PvP. Evis -> agonizing is the new spike. - Auron 00:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think he ment Critical Chop Lou-Saydus 18:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea I did. Wan't watching what I was typing :) --SlashingSword 23:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

All i can say is THANK YOU for tying it to critical strikes! Still worring me though. Especially with cracked armor making the frontline more vunerable. I'm starting to see Dual assassin frontlines in GvG (and not on a split either!) -- ChronicinabilitY  02:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC) This being an enchant is nice, but i would love it better as a skill--Lorddarkflare 02:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Bring on the even more awesome Crit Barrage Assassins! --MasterPatricko 09:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Wait, how are you guys USING this skill? -Kumdori 03:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Izzy is sort of the guy whose job it is to balance the game... So, working for Anet might be the reason why he's used the skill, perhaps. --Edru viransu 03:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Izzy = Issah Cartwright (i REALLY hope i spellet that right) the man in charge of skill balance for GW. i talked to him ingame once. pretty nice dude. -TehBuG- (68.146.198.244 04:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC))
 * Lol it's Isaiah Cartwright but no worries I miss spell all the time too : ), Yeah I help create, set up, and balance the skills. I also pushed to get these skills up here so I can get feedback, I Play with these skills everyday testing builds reading the feedback and tweaking the numbers. ~Izzy @-&#39; 01:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I see this being used by critical Barrges. Anyone else think it will be popular in that way? Zuehlke 04:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Sirocco 05:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Removed the following: Way of the Warrior applies to way more than some stupid Swedish band. Get real and quit grasping for such stupid references for everything. 70.64.104.35 05:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The name of this skill likely refers to the song by the Swedish power metal band Hammerfall of the same name.
 * I resent that :P Hammerfall rocks. Thats also the first thing I thought of, but its a fairly common saying. (forgot to log in) --Span 07:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no reason it should not be there. Look at this example: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/%22Go_for_the_Eyes%21%22 As one can clearly see, it is a fairly common saying. Yet on the very own pages of this wiki (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Go_for_the_eyes), a specific reference is pointed out for this fairly common saying, thus "grasping for stupid references".
 * Beside that point, "Heeding the Call" by Hammerfall was used as the soundtrack of the first episode of Kryta Bomber, a series that has been in the news of the official Guild Wars webpage, thus it is very plausible that the song by Hammerfall was the inspiration for this name.
 * Considering Bushido does not utilise Axes or Hammers, two out of three weapons affected by this skill, calling the skill name a reference to Bushido is just as "far fetched". If it was a skill only affecting sword, only then would that piece of trivia be a crystal clear reference. -WNxZexion 18:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Two out of three? Where did you learn to count? ;) Just because it says "Way of the Warrior" doesn't mean it's Warrior weapons only. "Non-dagger weapon" could be more or less anything. Even if it means only martial weapons, that's sword, axe, hammer, bow, scythe and spear. Ahri 07:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you are right, I thought of melee-only though, and kinda forgot there was a thing called scythe. But yes, it proves my point even further, as to my knowledge, Bushido emphasized only sword and bow, in other words, 4 out of 6 weapons are irrelevent, which is the same as 2 out of 3:P so ha! -WNxZexion 14:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Seems a bit overpowered, a 10 or 15 energy cost and a reduced duration would do nicely. It's currently too close to WotA for non-dagger sins. 220.101.180.184 10:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Use this with Way of the Assassin. I believe with this, WotA, Critical Eye, and a high Critical Strikes and Weapon Mastery you can get close to 100% critical chance (although I'm not sure if I'm calculating the stacking correctly). It sounds imbalanced to get that high of a crit chance, but it is subject to removal, and it's spent 3 skill slots on that. skaspaakssa 15:07, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Remember, the damage output on this won't match that of a character with 16 ranks in a weapon mastery, so it might not be as overpowered as you all think. Although the energy gain would be ridiculous (about 5 energy PER SECOND for a scythe user who can reliably hit 3 targets, and up to 10 per second for someone spamming Barrage, depending on how many targets they hit at a time and how fast their bow shoots, not counting natural energy regen and Zealous weapons). And even more energy with Critical Eye. And skill efects which require a crit are now guaranteed.
 * Okay, it's overpowered. Ahri 07:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts on how to use this; 16 Crits, 12 Marks, WotA, WotW, Crit Defenses, Crit Eye, Disrupting Accuracy, Critical Agility, Keen Arrow, Vampiric Shortbow. Uhhh, anyone?
 * LOL Stealing alot of health there buddy...but if you maybe there is a skill they aren't telling us about that deals damage pr every critical hit an enemy hits = PWNED
 * Nah.. im thinking more like 16 crit, 10 marks and 11 shadow arts. Use way of perfection and u will get healed every time u hit with an attack.

P.S.Stoneflesh Aura equals death of this build since it needs critical hits so bad Sword of SlashingSlashingSword 22:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't like that it's an enchantment and not a skill or a stance.... but then again that's what makes it so different from the elite variant, this one is more easily (almost too easily) stripped. I see this getting about as much use as Illusionary Weaponry or Spirit's Strength in PvP. Dancing Gnome 03:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Very interesting for PvE and OK for PvP. Nice skill overall.


 * This should be elite. Yes, I realize there are no elite GW:EN skills. This should be though. Arshay Duskbrow 04:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then it would just be a WotA, except no daggers.
 * And not a stance, doesn't require an enchantment, and has a longer duration. And daggers were't good with WoTA in the first place, because of the low base damage. Tycn 13:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be elite. Except with a scythe non daggers critical assassins are not so good. Maybe just forbid to use with a scythe. It would be lovable to make a sword assassin or to get a correct critical barrager with this skill so don't change it.--Ttibot 18:23, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks absurd with a Scythe, especially with the potential to pair it with elite skills and PvE skills. Aura of Holy Might+Vow of Strength+this with crtical striking bonuses will be absurdly high autoattack damage; critical defenses and/or critical agility will cover it nicely.


 * wouldnt this +crit eye+16 crit ranks+12 wep ranks be how many percent? its 16+35+10(base wep chance)+12(wep attibute)+16(crit stikes attribute)=89% if i attak with a bow 100 times while kiting is ends up at average 98% chance, ive done this many times, one time i got 12 hits outta 100 :P was not blind, crit barrager energy management, WOM usta be 37% and CE used to be 17%
 * wep mastry is 17% added not 12?Annoying And Deadly 01:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Way of the Assassin
Using this and Way of the Assassin both seems to be the main issue here. Would the best 'fix' for this skill actuyally be changing WotA to requiring 'while wielding daggers'? Or is combining these two exactly what's intended? (With WotA having an requirment for an enchant, which this is). Backsword 14:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's too game breaking for assassins to have huge crit chances on weapons they can only have 12 mastery in. All this really does is give assassins more diverse roles (I believe this skill used to be called "Critical Diversity"). --Heelz 01:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Using this and way of the assassin is overkill as it is, at 16 critical strikes and wih critical eye, this skill and way of the assassin would give +100% critical chance, and that's letting the natural critical chance of your weapon go to waste, and if it stacks multiplicatively, then you're just wasting this elite of diminishing returns. There are better ways to spend your elite slot. --Ckal Ktak 08:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Stacking
If crits stack additively, and you have 15 Critical Strikes, 12 in weapon mastery: 15 (Critical Strikes)+15(Critical Eye)+35(Way of the Assassin)+33(Way of the Warrior)+17 (Weapon Mastery)=115% chance to crit.

If crits stack multiplicatively: 17*1.15*1.15*1.35*1.33=40% chance to crit on attacks.

Why would the percentage reduce when you add a bonus to it?... --Koflem 19:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if you do the same but 35*1.15*1.15*1.17*1.33=72%, thats why i believe it is additive because how would the game figure wich percentage go 1st, 2nd, etc.?
 * It could change the final percentage (like for 17%,15%,15%,35%,33% the final percentage could vary from 36% to 72%, depending on the order you calculate).
 * Also, the final percentage could be reduced with a bonus to critical, like if you have 20%=20% or (10%+20%) 10*1,20=12%...

I believe that crit chance stacks additively, because, on my 'sin when I use WotA and CE, with 15 CM (15+15+35+17), I have observed a ~80% chance of critical hits. Otherwise, I would only crit, 30% of the time, and I know that's not happening.

And thus, I would like to finish my saying that, if your using a scythe/axe way of the assassin assassin (lol), 13 critical strikes would be ideal, to save points and/or health and still maintain a perfect critical chance.

(17+13+13+31+29)=103% chance to crit, with 4 energy per hit (ie, crit). For those of you who want to use a different elite than WotA, use the highest Critical Strikes you can. At 16, (16+16+35+17)=84% chance. For critical strikes at lower levels, 4 for each level. Equation: (X=84+[Y-16*4]). Y = Critical Strikes mastery level. X is your critical chance.

Hope this helped! 72.75.23.194 16:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think it is additive stacking, but multiplicative. This is what I tested with the current skills as a As/Pa on the barrels in Nameless Isle (Daggers=L12, Command=L7)...


 * 51% "Go for the Eyes!"
 * 33% Siphon Strength
 * 17% from Dagger Mastery


 * If it were additive, you would hit a Critical 101% of the time and in my tests that clearly does not happen. The only logical reason for this is if it were instead a multiplicative calculation, yes? arredondo 22:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I will go repeat the same test above, with WotA instead of Siphon Speed. 72.75.9.239 11:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I just tested. First of all, I hit a non-critical hit when my crit rate was well over 100% (Go for the Eyes). Secound, with WotA, Critical Eye, 15 CS, 12 DM,(35+15+15+17=82, additively) I hit the 100 armor target 47 times and hit 16 critical hits and 31 non-critical hits. Thats a 34% critical rate, far less than 82%. And, oddly, this proves my math for multiplicative stacking. Thus, I will actually test before making my claims next time, rather than go off what I think I'm obversing in regular battle. (Critical hits make a different sound than normal hits, and this probably registers in my head more than the normal sound.) Furthermore, I withdrawl all work and/or math done in this section as false. I'll proceed to rework the math with muliplicative stacking. 72.75.9.239 19:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also notice that whenever you hit a Crit, a special yellow flash circles around the target. Tha way it is easy to tell if you nailed one or not (besides the consistent purple damage number). Oh, and sign your posts! It looks like I wrote all of that instead of you :). arredondo 15:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I did a study against the wooden doll things on the Isle of the Nameless.  100 Strikes each with 15 Critical Strikes, 11 Marksmanship, WotA and Critical Eye.  I have to say that armor effects your critical hit chance.  I had a critical hit against the 60 armor about 85 times while against the 100 armor I only had a critical hit 68 times.  I will do some more but for now that is what i got. --141.152.53.40 04:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

If you have just 12 in a Weapon and 13 in CS, and JUST this + WotA, you should have 13+31+29+17 = 90% chance to crit. Is it really worth it to add Critical Eye to reach 100%? I mean, when you're blind, do you care about your 10% chance to hit and use your Evis in case you might hit? No, you pretty much assume you'll miss. Well with 90% chance to crit, you can just assume you'll crit and save the skill slot and attribute points =p It's a nice skill overall, will have fun testing stuff with it. And a very very good cover enchantment for Dark Apostacy too ^^ Patccmoi 21:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Critical Eye is an excellent energy management source, adding +crit % and +1 Energy per critical hit. Drop it if you feel you don't have problems with energy, as you will already have 2.9 energy Regen per secound with a scythe, 3.33 energy per secound with an axe. Critical eye mearly adds .57 energy per secound (scythe) and .75 energy per secound (axe). Okay, yeah, not needed I guess. The affect is greatly increased when you use daggers or a bow. Without critical eye, you need [(17+15+35+33)=100%] 15 critical strikes to get perfect critical hits. So, if you want perfect critical hits, you need to sacrifice, skill points in a third attribute, (11+1+3)(12)(6, I think) or you must sacrifice a skill bar slot. Your last option is to screw getting perfect crits and say that 90%. 72.75.9.239 11:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I now believe that all critical chance increasing skills are worded wrong. I believe that crits stack multiplicatively as opposed to the additively stacking that the wording of skills (and attributes) suggests. Thus, according to this, the first critical hit percentage you could achieve if you use this skills would be: .17*1.16*1.16*1.37*1.35 = 42% chance to critical. 72.75.9.239 12:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * What if the critical hit chance for each critical hit buff is "rolled" independantly? In other words, what if "an additional X% chance" doesn't mean "your chance to inflict critical hits increases by X%", instead meaning "your attacks have an additional chance to inflict a critical hit, equal to X%"? So, for example, someone wanding with 15 Critical Strikes, buffed with Critical Eye and Way of the Master, would, assuming a base wand critical rate of 0% (which isn't the case, but the wand critical rate is pretty low) have a critical hit rate of ~52% (100% - (85% * 85% * 67%)) rather than 63% (15%+15%+33%), and "Go for the Eyes!" would increase the rate to ~88% (100% - (85% * 85% * 67% * 25%)) rather than increasing it to 138% (assuming no critical hit rate cap). Critical Strikes specifically states that it increases the critical hit chance, which I suspect means that it adds directly to the weapon's critical hit rate after any level, armor or weapon attribute modifiers. -- Gordon Ecker 23:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I just tested "Go for the Eyes!" at 12 Command (on General Morgahn) with a wand on Isle of the Nameless, and got criticals on 36 of 50 attacks. Critical hit rate is affected by the target's level and armor, your results vs. a 100 armor target seem to indicate that +40 armor halves the critical hit rate, although the sample size isn't large enough to determine how critical hit rate bonuses stack. -- Gordon Ecker 23:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Armor level could effect Critical Hits. Since I've started caring, I think I've noticed this. I always wondered...hmmm, it would make sence. I never, ever, target warriors first (normally), but I've noticed that my critical rate seems to slow down when I target wars (near the end of a battle) then vs. squishies. However, the fact remains that it is possible to not score a critical hit with (15+15+17+35+30=112) on a 60 AL target. So, obviously...some of the critical skills are misworded. *sigh* Now we need to find out which ones... 17+15+15+35+33=115% chance to crit on 60 AL. I think this is important to note, and I can't wait to test it when I get Eye of the North. Somebody could test with GftE, but that takes to long, imo. 71.252.82.15 14:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're simply testing critical rates based on armor level, you're probably best off using a slow weapon on an Assassin, with Way of the Assassin. That way, you know you've got a nice, level critical hit chance across all attacks. Then just test against various armor levels, and try to figure out exactly what difference the armor makes... -- Jioruji Derako.> 22:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:List of Eye of the North skills
Way of the Warrior is going to cause some serious overpowered creations, it needs the addition of another requirement, like they must be under an enchantment, since as it is its more powerful that the Elite version designed for use with Daggers. (although it would probally still be overpowered)
 * I've played with this a lot and While you can make some fun bars, the only thing I see it doing is making a non dagger assassin viable, it's really not that overpowered, as it can be removed, requires a much needed skill slot. ~Izzy @-&#39; 19:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's got a spiffy new overpowered name. :O --Redfeather 23:55, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Way of the Warrior was a cooler name, IMO <_< Really interesting skill though, I really like it. ~ Kailianna Firesoul 00:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * While Way of the Warrior sounded a bit as if it only would apply to warrior skills, it is really a much nicer name. And Paragons and Dervishes with their Spears and Scythes are actually some kind of warrior, too. I agree with Kailianna, Way of the Warrior = WoW, Way of the Master = WoM? No way, WoW is much cooler. --Longasc 00:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, the old name was better, I could easily guess what the skill did just by reading it. Way of the Master lacks meaning. Erasculio 02:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I liked Way of the Warrior better as well. Way of the Master sounds much more generic than a reference to Bushido. That makes me think: will we get two-handed sword mastery in Guild Wars 2 as another two handed melee option other than scythes, hammers and daggers? Who knows. Specialising your warrior as a Samurai would be a neat option, especially if Cantha is still about. Emerynn 08:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Bring WoW back. Please. It's so a much better name. NOW! 72.75.9.239 19:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It's not WoW/WoM. It's WotW/WotM or WW/WM. You can't pick and choose which "small words" you want to include in an acronym. It's either all or none. --Heelz 02:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In case you missed it, they already did pick and choose what small words to include. Mayhaps they aren't supposed to,  but they did anyways.  ‽-(eronth)  I give  up  16:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I know...? I'm calling them out for doing just that. --Heelz 13:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes you can, there's military acronyms like DEFCON which use entire syllables from some words while dropping others. -- Gordon Ecker 23:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

They should call this skill "Way of the Ninja" as ninja were skilled in using many different weapons including bows, swords, throwing weapons, and could make due with about anything they could find, that and this skill is overpowered as were ninjas :D --66.245.91.101 20:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

ow i laked the old name better (possibly because i like the name bushido) Dstroyer 666 20:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Change it to Art of War, now there's a nice name with a nice background


 * That sounds too pretty... and makes it sound like it should be in a Warrior's Tactics attribute or something. I agree that WotW was a good name... Way of the Master kinda makes you wonder "master of what?". -- Jioruji Derako.> 00:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Way of the Master = Way of the Warrior
Name's been switched back in-game, it seems. Can't tell if it'll stay that way for the week until the game is released, but it seems like someone was listening to the complaints about the new name. -- Jioruji Derako.> 13:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Name is now Way of the Warrior in the full release. An admin will need to come through and move the page over; currently, the old "Way of the Warrior" page is still intact and redirects to here, and the move option won't let you move to a page that already exists. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  04:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nyargh, they switched it back to Way of the Master. Now we need an admin to switch it back back... Eh, and I liked it being WotW. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  04:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically, Bushido does mean Way of the Warrior :/... Readem   Promote My Ban Here  04:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the Bushido reference was exactly what they were going for, anyway. They just mean to say, "hey, this' guy's so good, he can land friggin' huge numbers of criticals with ANY weapon!".
 * I wish they had gone with Way of the Critical, personally. Not the best name, but I can't pass up the chance to call it WotC. (any M:tG player will know that as Wizards of the Coast, the company that makes M:tG. :D) --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  04:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd go for Way of the Large Killing, WotLK. 193.44.6.146 16:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol... wow sucks, no "way of the large killing" :P 99.228.244.31 05:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)