Talk:Visions of Regret

Is it just me or does that look like a Necro in the background? On a Mesmer skill? (The warrior is understandable because adrenaline but...)


 * Maybe the Warrior feels really bad about Eviscerateing some necro the other day? - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 19:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The guy in the background reminds me of the babe. --Mme. Donelle 09:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

the Acquisition section says "...only after the quest Destroy the Harpies." Lieutenant Murunda does not seem to give the quest again after the initially completion of this quest. Does anyone know a work around or another way to get this Elite Skill? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Karlinhos (talk &bull; contribs) 04:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC).
 * AFAIK, this quest only has to be completed once. After that, the boss will always spawn. (Assumption.) -- [[Image:User Corrran sig.png|CoRrRan]] (CoRrRan / talk) 03:05, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Your assumption is correct ;-)

This vs Backfire vs Soul Leech vs Cacophony
WTB Visions of Regret buff! wsp me offer table &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 14:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Dont know what you're talking about. This practicaly shuts down most wars (and some paragons). I hate when my warrior gets annialated by this--Ra ph  Tal ky  21:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Duration scale says Hai2u this can be kept up on 1 target, can't say that for any others (unless you use MoR or HSR set).--Underwood 21:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

:O
SS nao? Mango 00:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Woot, I'm gonna start using this more. Keero 01:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I was just about to say... oO bye bye SS oO" LunarEffect  15:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Doubt it. SS can be kept up, this only half of the time. Furthermore, the damage here is more conditional. SS would deal damage with every action, this deals damage with every skill. So this would likely be put on a caster than a martial (with the exception of assassins). Thing is, for casters, there's already Backfire. Saphatorael 16:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * the aoe makes this overkill...--213.100.146.85 17:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * not really, SS is still better --Anorith [[Image:User Anorith Grenths Grasp.jpg|19px]] Talk 18:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think I'm going to stay faithful to SS as a Necro, the recharge time and duration make it easier to spread on various targets. This is a nice hex to apply in addtion to SS though for a team build. =D  LunarEffect [[Image:User_LunarEffect_Moon.png]] 19:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill's aoe hex makes scattering ineffective unlike less effective Vs Spiteful Spirit. Skill spammers will need to be more careful as Empathy, Backfire and boss killing Pain Inverter will have even more damage now. --Don Knowall 20:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * All I can say is lol touchers. --Ckal Ktak 20:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * yay a counter :p --Anorith [[Image:User Anorith Grenths Grasp.jpg|19px]] Talk 00:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

This skill is an anti-healer and anti-assassin skill. As well as anti touch ranger. :P  Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I want to see this in some Hexway for HA soon.--72.189.85.47 03:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank god, finally' a skill to attack healers... there really was WAY too less pressure on healers. Wait... I almost didn't see any healers playing in unorganized PvP the last days. Funny coincidence. --82.83.40.113 14:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Arcane Echo anyone? Cover with Parasitic Bond on the Monk and laugh on spikes.  Actually, you may have a fairly decent lockdown Mes now.  Visions, cover, Backfire, cover, continue the loop.  Would keep one monk from doing anything for a long time, damn if it weren't for the unreasonably long cast times even with Fast Cast...Gothica 19:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be too sure about Arcane Echo in a build with this, because you need a cover hex you'd be using 3 skills in your bar just to capitalise on Visions of regrets effect, if you face someone with multiple hex removal your bar becomes alot less useful.(Marsc 20:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC))
 * I believe that this skill needs a nerf now. The intention of the skill was to pressure the use of skills, and that it has, but the damage is too much. This, among other mesmer skills, have become too much. Mesmers were never meant to be a "kill you" profession, so why are they rivaling eles as a sourse of damage. In terms of a non-tactical approach, Mesmers are supposed to make the player NOT want to use skils. (Diversion, Backfire, etc.) Well, if I have Wastrel's Worry on me, and under it is VoR, Then isnt it a better idea, seeing as Wastrel's is more damage, That i would want to use a skill and eat a 80dmg VoR, to avoid eating a 95dmg Wastrel's? I don't like the fact that the common Wastrel's combos (sinse Wastrel's was buffed also) seem to actually PROMOTE the use of skills. This seems extremely out of character for the mesmer profession. I think that the remedy for this skill, as well as for other mesmer damaging skills is to reduce the damage that they deal--not overmuch, but just drop them to a comparable level with a necro's life stealing skills: (at atrib=15)Wastrel's deal 65dmg, VoR deal 45ish, backfire deal around 100. Mesmers should not be able to outpace eles in the damage sector. Their damage numbers rival that of an ele's, but the ele is affected by armor. Mesmers have deviated from their origional intention as a denial profession into a killing one. Let the tldr-s flow. XP
 * Killing is also a form of denial and it is best form of denial.:) It should not be dropped to life stealing levels because life stealing has the additional advantage of returning hp to the caster while VoR doesn't.DarkSpirit 14:58, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it is serously overpowered. Aheria
 * Elementalists without a doubt are the best at inflicting unconditional damage, however if it were that simple, nobody would ever play Mesmer. Damage is still reduced by armor and although there are ways of getting around that, it still requires non-elementalist skills or allies to take the damage home and maximize its potential.  Mesmers sacrifices the unconditional for armor-ignoring damage, which in a way is more powerful but also easily weaker at the same time.  I don't think it's out of scope for the Mesmer at all seeing how Mesmers aren't out to disable opponents necessarily but placing them in situations in which they can easily screw up and usually do.  Energy Burn is a skill more out of place than Visions of Regret.  --89.97.254.200 10:44, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * How can you say this is overpowered? First of all both Backfire and Empathy do a much better job against their respective classes and don't take your elite spot to do it.  Everyone says how this skill is such a huge anti-monk but as a monk I have almost no problem with it at all.  Two seconds casting time for an elite skill is just terrible and as soon as they put it on me I cancel holy veil and it's gone.  Not to mention that in combination with Backfire or Empathy it just gives the target more incentive to wait out the duration, which in many cases is probably what they should have done in the first place.  On top of all that, it can be kept on a target less than half the time if you include cast time and only affects targets adjacent to yours.  I would never use this skill in my mesmer build, and it is not overpowered by any means.
 * Because this + backfire + shame + diversion + wastrel's + shatter + pdrain = soloed dead monk unless you suck at chaining them. Shatter veil, VoR + diversion = No SB to outheal VoR.  Then you stick backfire and throw in random wastrel's for damage/cover hex.  The skills individually aren't overpowered, using them together is.  I play mesmer and monk, I own monks as mesmer and die as monk versus people using this combo.  As much as I hate to admit it, mesmers need a nerf in this area. --Link4all 20:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Your little scenario works great as long as long as 1. The monk does absolutely nothing and doesn't know what they're doing and 2. The other people on the monk's team are just standing around also doing nothing. The casting times make this weak to bother mesmer and ranger interupts - both of which are popular. Monks have plenty of cover enchantments to block the Shatter with. Even before this was buffed I used to use Vigorous Spirit in RA to slow down mesmers with only one enchantment removal and it even helped against degeneration spreading necromancers. Wastrel's is nice with the buff but is fucking pointless unless you've got the diversion there - because VoR deals less damage than WW making there no reason to wait to remove the hex or throw up another Holy Veil. This skill is fine. I'm glad the devs see that enough to ignore the people who've been complaining about it. Especially with the new PnH buff - this skill shouldn't even be on their minds. Bathory 03:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Damage
Does it apply Before the effect of the spell/skill which triggered it?- 69.115.13.91 01:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * i'm 99% positive it's before the spell( you wont be able to heal yourself if your on low health), such as all those kinda of skills.. backfire,SS,soul leech,...78.20.153.111 10:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Wowie
I hope this skill at most gets a split function if they decide to nerf it =] Nikdanbro 10:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They shouldn't its cast time is quite long even with fast casting, it only lasts half of it's recharge and it can be removed pretty quickly and do 80+ damage at most, the only targets that this is most useful against is people who spam skills(like Assassins and R/W with Axes), plus you need a cover hex for it.(Marsc 20:28, 24 August 2008 (UTC))

Mix it with Empathy and Backfire. I play with 16 attribute in Domination, so a melee with Visions of Regret(VoR) with Empathy can take a spike of 156 per skill,assuming that the skill activates either BackFire or Empathy, if its a caster with BackFire it will take a spike of 242 per skill used. Meaning for example, assuming a 500 life cap, a closed minded Assassin will get killed in 3 skills(they activate skills way too fast), for a spamming Monk(like Word of Healing), it will get killed in 2 skills(spells). After all that mess I wrote, I mean, you can get kills like these, more likely in RA. Its there a nerf coming after writing these?...Dunno but like the previous statement said, it last only 10 seconds so either you(the affected foe) become a sitting duck, remove it(cough,Diversion after VoR and Emp./BackF.,cough, so he/she wont remove it again, cough) or endure it.--ShadowFog 13:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess it could work out like that, but still sixteen points in domination will make you quite fragile no matter how many stances you bring with you (physical resistance, elemental resistance, and such).William Wallace 15:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well no, you dont need stances like that, you are punishing your enemy for taking actions, ignore what I said about 16. Heres a variation of the build I bring to RA:
 * Code:OQBDAqwDKutGwBeggL6ogAA
 * Theres a lot of variations you can make for this skill. Try it out a few times. Killing spammers has never been this fun.--ShadowFog 16:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

You forget Wastrel's Worry, most important skill in PvP when it comes to "must act for effect" hexes like these, that way you can punish them either way, which is AMAZING xD Nikdanbro 15:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * YES! Wastrel's Worry! How can I forget! And perfect as cover hex so the others dont get stripped! remove Diversion and put Wastrel's Worry and you get:


 * Yes...I play with Domination to 16 so VoR can deal 95 and Overload can deal 42 and so on.--ShadowFog 22:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Overload sucks, diversion does not. Every decent mesmer bar should have diversion by definition. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  12:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone has their taste. I for one like to do Overload to keep damaging opponent far after Backfire is gone since it last 10 seconds thats why I didn't put Diversion so my opponent has skills to punish especially the spamming ones plus if Im against a melee character, just attack with your wand then proceed with Overload every chance you get. Besides, theres a build posted with Diversion already. Change it to what you like!.--ShadowFog 15:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That posted build is horrible as well. backfire is shit, overload is shit, Discharge is shit, empathy is meh.
 * This has nothing to do with taste, and everything to do with power
 * A more proper bar would be:
 * For optional, empathy, or any other melee hate is applicable. Here is a tip: Don't base your build around the elite. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  16:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You have anger issues Nuclear, lay down for a while. I know that every class in every format of PvP can remove hexes(sarcasm). Although I dont agree with your point of view but I will defend your right to do so.--ShadowFog 16:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wtf? anger issues? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  16:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dude, the "shit" thing, a little Overboard(mild joke) with that.--ShadowFog 16:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Some people talk like that normally. It isn't a sign of anger. He's using it to mean "bad," but isn't attaching angry connotations to it.
 * His bar is for PvP, where empathy and backfire are terrible and diversion is required. Yours and most others' are for PvE, where empathy is fine, backfire is still pretty bad but not quite as bad as it is in PvP, and diversion is terrible. Different venues require different skills. - Auron 05:43, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nuclear your bar is shit. Read what I posted "Well no, you dont need stances like that, you are punishing your enemy for taking actions,...", "Theres a lot of variations you can make for this skill." And your thinking is worse. Every decent mesmer bar should have diversion by definition. Where do you get off? Get off the GvG track. Diversion is good no ones deny that but by definition? Get out once in a while and smell the peaches....where empathy and backfire are terrible and diversion is required. Yours and most others' are for PvE, where empathy is fine, backfire is still pretty bad but not quite as bad as it is in PvP, and diversion is terrible. Different venues require different skills. Well with that mentality you make hexes horrible, everyone takes hexes to every arena all the day, in what kind of arena are hexes horrible for PvP? At least with my bar you can go HB and his/her heroes will kill themselves, solo cap shrines in AB and own in RA.--ShadowFog 12:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * owell... VoR with WW doesn't pressure monks in ra, u need backfire to do so, and even that is pointless as they cast themselves to death anyway. empathy is good as there's always someone to cast it on. shatter in ra is bad, high energy and recharge, monks casts enchantments all day and u remove one of them and deal some damage, yay..? i always use diversion tho, and usually always blackout, shame, PD/PB/VoR, powerdrain and rend and ra/ta/ab for fun, it isn't that serious.... --Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature.jpg|19px|talk]] 13:23, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Shadowfog, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said "hexes are terrible for PvP." I said those specific hexes are terrible for PvP, but they work in PvE because the monsters keep attacking/casting through it. Show me one time where I said hexes in general didn't work in PvP. Since you can't, I'd appreciate if you stopped making shit up. Thanks. - Auron 21:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You have my condolences if something was amiss in my statement, administrator. Really they are horrible in PvP?...hmm, shrines cap themselves in AB when an NPC is hexed with Backfire or Empathy because all they do is "do skill", Heroes keep casting spells in HB unless his player has the time to bother to make them stop by changing their command which is time bought for you unless he/she is a monk either way its pressure against the Mo and stop the healing(easy to rack up winnings), in RA hexing an Assassin(or any other melee for that matter) in a middle,starting, etc. of the combo with VoR and/or Empathy would ensure a kill if not, he's stop dead in his tracks doing shit for 10 seconds enough time to keep Wastrel's Worry on him. "...you can go HB and his/her heroes will kill themselves, solo cap shrines in AB and own in RA.". So again..."...in what kind of arena are hexes horrible for PvP?". I left the room for answer. Im guessing that you(Auron and Nuclear) don't do these arenas very often, I can understand. No problem.--ShadowFog 22:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * HB, RA nad AB aren't serious PvP. Please don't make me explain why. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  14:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Auron already said that in another way, here let me make it easy for you:"......where empathy and backfire are terrible and diversion is required. Yours and most others' are for PvE, where empathy is fine, backfire is still pretty bad but not quite as bad as it is in PvP, and diversion is terrible. Different venues require different skills." Either way you look at it we payed for the full product, for the whole PvP arenas, serious or not.--ShadowFog 15:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Auron already said that in another way, here let me make it easy for you:"......where empathy and backfire are terrible and diversion is required. Yours and most others' are for PvE, where empathy is fine, backfire is still pretty bad but not quite as bad as it is in PvP, and diversion is terrible. Different venues require different skills." Either way you look at it we payed for the full product, for the whole PvP arenas, serious or not.--ShadowFog 15:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't make a pve bar without 3 broken pve skills, just fyi. When I make builds I do so far PvP by definition because anything works in pve. -- NUKLEAR   IIV  15:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, because HA and GvG are serious right? all full of cookie cutters boring + lame builds, people don't use their brains anymore, RA is the "true" PvP where you can test your skills vs the unexpected. Gimme a break, don't try to sound so smartass.
 * If GvG is so brainless, why don't you take a guild of RA pros and go win a mAT? It can't be that hard if they're all running the same cookie cutter builds, surely you can find a counter to the meta and just run that. - Auron 07:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Why bother, his solution will most likely be imo.  RA is for giggles.  The meta IS pvp, dealing with it is the "skill" part.  RA is for dumb laughs.  If you win, gratz, it's 1v3v4 in RA, and those 3 are usually more of a hassle than support. --  euphoracle  |  talk  03:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Nerf Pls?
Anet Nerfed Blood Magic... And yet VoR remains unchanged.

RA is flooded with VoR Mesmers. I watched earlier as 1 VoR rapes entire Iway team in HA (observer mode). VoR is anti-Everything. But yeah.... lets nerf Necros some more.

Countless people have said "if you can't beat em, join em" but... well... here's my example. If a gay person decides to hit on me, I don't hit on him back I instead, punch him in the face.

I'm not jumping on the VoR bandwagon, and I'm not lowering myself to the level of VoR scrub.

opinions? 98.193.121.227 21:20, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * One problem is that no class can't remove hexes adequately except for the Monk. Other is that from 8 skills in a skill bar one of them (this one) will shut down anyone for 10 seconds. In an organized PvP, a team is expected to have at least one remove hex skill. In RA, since there is no team objectives nor no organized team, you gotta jump in the wagon. I doubt they will make any changes due to RA exploit builds since they have never made any changes (redundancy) due to builds that exploit RA(correct me if I'm wrong).--ShadowFog 00:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice; gay bashing. 98.226.112.109 17:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If there is a build that provides a significant advantage in RA you need to jump the bandwagon. There's nothing you can do about it until they nerf the build. But you can accelerate the process by playing the overpowered build, too. If you play an inferior build you are just wasting your time - if you don't like it then better don't play RA until the situation improves.
 * Well, you may play an anti-hex build (Divert Hexes as a monk seondary, e.g. as a Ritu) if you are desperate. If you play monk, bring Contemplation of Purity (+ Holy Veil + Vigorous Spirit + Patient Spirit; you may remove easily 4 hexes with 300+ health gain this way while under VoR + Backfire). If you are Derv, bring Pious Restoration. If you are Para, bring Hexbreaker Aria. As a Mez, consider using Inspired Hex or Hex Eater Signet. As a War, consider using Smite Hex. As a Ranger or any other utility class, consider including Purge Signet in your bar to help your monk or any other team mate that suffer from stacked hexes. --82.83.35.253 09:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * hahaha...Hexbreaker Aria...you kid too much. Also, LEARN TO PARA.--72.189.85.14 21:16, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, just learn to read? --82.83.53.156 12:05, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Imo i think it shouldnt be nerfed just be Split so that in PvP it only targets foe instead of adjacent as well so that way 2 mesmers wont be able to shut down a whole team. Fire and deaths 01:03, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * VoR with FC is still vulnerable to interrupts. Apparently interrupt protection isn't very common on VoR memsmers, so exploit it. --8765 01:11, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * yeah, two second cast. Do Cry of Frustration.  That should make a few mesmers reconsider.  There have always been spells that are quite powerful.  You should bring something to interupt.  I think most the non-spell casters professions have an interupt.  StatMan 03:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Blood Necros you see, can mass-spike with random spam of Blood Magic Spells, but Hexes don't stack... which is why I think it remains unchanged in comparison [B! Nikdanbro 01:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "But hexes don't stack..." wut? Assuming you mean casting the same hex twice doesn't stack, DUH. But otherwise, I don't see any viable blud spiking in PvP, so n0. Chao 01:24, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

how many other passive hexes can kill an entire team?? just this one (and SS in extreme cases)..i think domination magic as a whole is very overpowered. backfire, wastrels worry, vor, empathy = gg..and then theres all the interrupt skills and spell steals in domination..plz tone down just a little --Celtus 16:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * VoR is made so Nubs can kill Nubs --J0ttem™ 20:13, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * VoR doesnt make distinction. VoR just kills anyone.--ShadowFog 20:35, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Large .png
I don't think this has been covered before on the Talk Page but I won't read it all. is different to the real image... any reason? --AlexEternal 23:09, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Is the case with many skills, e.g. Hamstring, RIposte(now fixed), Deflect Arrows... uh i wont look all through the skills now... 95.119.27.237 21:34, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

oh shit, the leak was true!
my poor, poor VoR. !@#$
 * 'bout time.--ShadowFog 05:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * oh no... now i can't stack backfire on my target... This nerf did nothing...Anfunny 06:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * So, you never had VoR on you and Wastrel's Worry? StatMan 14:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

"if not under the effects of another Mesmer hex." Does that mean just mesmer hexes or all hexes. Would hexes such as Pain Inverter affect this skill as well?--124.186.110.194 06:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We know who failed reading comprehension.--98.238.169.189 06:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nobody in the right mind casts through both backfire and VoR, or spams attack skills through empathy and VoR so it's pretty much a useless nerf for PvP, but in PvE, you get VoR callers in cryer groups, so this is probably a PvE related nerf. Pika Fan 06:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In PvP VoR mesmers might have some troubles when having more than one mesmer in the party --Soulforged [[Image:Mesmer-tango-icon-200.png|19px]] 07:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Great change anyway. --[[Image:User_Yullive_Consume_Soul.png]] Yullive 11:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Anfunny-Oh yes it did, it lowered the pressure from damage to almost 50%. Players forcing you to activate a skill anyhow, will make you take 45 damage instead of taking 100 or 95. Now you need teamwork, splash with another profession or just leave the target with one mesmer hex. @Pika: People still do that, casting both hexes.--ShadowFog 12:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I just don't get this, so a primary mesmer is penalized for using this? They couldn't just nerf Cry... oh wait they did that too, so wtf... /sigh Sorry mesmers, I just bought a slot and made one, so this was inevitable --63.246.206.241 13:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * then just use Me/N for parasitic bond as cover hex. also nice for a small bonus heal when attributes are put in. 86.91.141.232 13:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @shadowfog: who runs VoR in anything but Hexway where you have a necro to cover hex? What other mesmer hex would you put on a person you put VoR on? Anfunny 19:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If character is hexed by VoR and Wastrel's Worry will conditional damage from VoR work when using skill? Matek 22:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No. That was the point of the change.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 22:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't tested it, but I know that Wastrel's tends to end FIRST, before other skills are triggered, so if VoR is still on target and no other mesmer hex is there, my guess is the conditional damage does kick in.84.104.81.205 06:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was hoping that you'd take the lesser damage from VoR. It was quite powerful in RA or FA.  essentially you could put sever pressure on someone, and as opposed to real PvP, you weren't guaranteed to have someone on your team that can remove hexes.  What was happening was VoR, then conjure, maybe a snare too, and wastrel's worry.  You'd have -7 degen, and taking atleast 100 damage every 3 seconds, with nothing you could do (like self heal), unless you yourself brought serious hex removal.  The reason that 54 dps was so powerful was that you could not self heal.  I have builds that do more than 54 dps, but they have more conditions to satisfy (like Line of Sight, melee, and such).  StatMan 23:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Best nerf ever, now wastrel's worry + VoR isn't abusive

Insidious and Empathy
They're not that related. Related skills would be anything that punishes skill usage (all spells are skills, that's why backfire and SL are there). Attacking isn't a skill. ~Shard  00:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

attack skills are skills, both are effected by these skills, thats why they are related :D--67.70.68.195 01:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But auto swing attacks are not skills, only attack skills are skills. Empathy and Insidious will hurt when your foe does a normal attack, but VoR will not. StatMan 14:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes but Empathy and Insidious will also hurt with attack skills, so will VoR. I'm not talking about auto attacking, just attack skills. Thats just how i see it.--67.70.68.195 15:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Difference is this affects all skills. Insidious and Empathy only affect attacks and attack skills.  They are too different in functionality.  If they are related, then a skill like Riposte would be related to empathy, since it deals armor ignoring damage to a foe if they attack you, the only differences between empathy is that it only works once,  they have to target you, and it blocks an attack.  How about Clumsiness?  Difference is it works on only one attack, and it interrupts.  Both of these examples I am giving are NOT related to VOR or empathy, I'm just showing how the differences in these skills make them be used in vastly different ways. You do NOT use VOR for the same purpose you'd use empathy, but you do use insidious parasite like you use empathy. This is not to say you wouldn't hex the same person with VoR and empathy, but that the ones you'd use VoR on you wouldn't necessarily use empathy on. removed because this is about related, and relation doesn't have to do with use, but function.  StatMan 14:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

So this was meant to be nerfed?
No it deals more damahe while being the only mesmer hex on the target, and while under both Backfire and VoR, it only triggers Spirit Bond once. That's a mighty clever nerf. Frosty 14:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno, but you could just try stacking this with necro hexes now. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 14:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's what everyone is doing, let the necro's spread a bunch of degenerative hexes and such, then get some VoR's or Backfire on people and watch as the opposing team degen's out from somebody spamming wounding strike on everybody and everyone have 10 degen, etc etc etc.
 * Incase you didn't notice, hexway is really nerfed lol. Frosty 14:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

As a class Mesmers really don't have many elites to use and with this nerf, the best one now is energy surge. A really terrible nerf for PvE and heroes...how do I get Gwen to not stack empathy and VoR?

The reason it was so successful in RA is that people are too busy punching numbers on their keyboards when all they had to do was press the spacebar with this hex up. If balancing RA, TA or HA was the goal here; it's a miserable failure. All this hex did for mesmers was level the playing field against the numerous KDs, Shadowsteps and Searing Flames spikes.

The big problem for mesmers with any build is energy management, you simply can't spam spells mindlessly and get good results. VoR as it was made RA playable as a Mesmer... now my PvP slot is going to be an Elementalist for RA. Corum853 14:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not viable in RA? Migraine. Hell, Diversion. Get creative, people, Mesmers can still kick ass. 71.197.141.158 18:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed they do --Soulforged [[Image:Mesmer-tango-icon-200.png|19px]] 19:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Ha, diversion was well i wouldn't call it nerfed since hardly anyone used it in the first place, but they made it worse. Materia user 23:18, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

While Migraine will apply a weak degen to a melee opponent, the hex really does nothing else to them. It is only usefull against casters and in RA you need an elite skill that works universally. Searing Flames (by way of example) will damage all classes. The nerf was worked backwards since WW was left untouched in PvP. Simply halve the damage done by WW in PvP and leave PvE VoR alone. Corum853 16:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd make WW not so good for PvP unless used with this skill, or SS. I'm not sure that is a good idea. StatMan 13:54, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Good illusionists bring Clumsiness or Wandering Eye.
 * Lmfao, good one Frosty. Hexway nerfed!?!?!?! Hexway and gimmicks are the only way to win. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|20px]] 08:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

eh, imo it was nerfed. I'll admit that i still see people use this, but when I do i'm happy they arent running something worse. now pretty much any class can outdamage/outheal this. which is why when i see it, i just use ether feast, or i have aura of resto up and use rodgorts, or cure hex... etc. Materia user 23:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ Power creep. Sad is the day that people give sighs of relief at VoR, a mechanically and logically broken skill. When the equivalent of "act and die, or stand around and die" brings people hope, this game is really pathetic. -- Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 11:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

This game is not pathetic... people look waaay too much at the cynical side of the game. VoR was nerfed to a good degree. Useful for both pve and pvp. Act and die? Just kill the mesmer :p jeez. Reckoning is a cynical troll. --ScorpySEH 04:52, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

note
can anyone confirm the second note? I've never seen this to be the case Athrun  10:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I did legendary guardian last year, and I found it to be true on caster enemies anyway. -- Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 10:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I still can't see this as true (it is quite easy to convince yourself that something works a certain way, after all). If it is true then, for the AI to be self consistent, shouldn't things avoid using skills through things like Diversion or Backfire? Again, I'm pretty confident it makes no difference. <font color="Silver">Athrun [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_Hamster.png‎ ]] 16:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've seen a monster cancel mid cast due to Backfire landing, no interrupts in the build. I've also seen monsters cast through backfire. Take what you want from that information. <font color="#A55858">Misery  16:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've never noticed that they would cast less spells when they have Backfire/VoR on them. What I have seen monsters/NPCs do is what Misery said, cancel the spell they are casting when they get hexed. It seems to happen mostly when they are at low health and triggering the hex would kill them. Atleast that's my experience. Kur  tan   <font color="Deeppink">17:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've noticed monsters cancel casting spells when under Backfire or VoR, but only when it would kill them immediately after use. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:04, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Is this note still viable after the update? Razors shadow 14:55, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I know for a fact I've killed tons of Luxon Longbows in JQ with this. Pretty sure I've killed caster NPCs too. <font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 01:22, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Bug?
so it appears that vor + wastrels, vor doesnt do the whole dmg, wastrels should end before vor takes effect right? for instance if you have wastrels covering a hex, and they use a hex removal skill both are removed instead of just the top hex (wastrels), because wastrels ends before the skill takes effect --81.90.22.58 03:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)