Feedback talk:Game updates/20091029

Bad idea
In regards to non access to heroes in Guild Hall. This is NOT good, GH is used for much more than battles its a place i have spent a lot of money on npc's so i can work on armor,runes weapons etc. this includes my heroes not just the Avatar. Simply I am NOT impressed with this update. Please fix it. Suggestion allow heros back but if a battle is tried to be entered with heros a npc blocks it with warning. But do not ban heroes from GH.
 * I completely agree. In fact, please allow us to see pve versions of skills in a GH as I've posted about before . A smaller concern is being able to screw around or test things in a scrim with heroes and a friend. Manifold 01:21, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * What they both said. +1. I set up my heros, look at and setup builds in GH, where storage is easy, I sort through runes I salvaged with a rune trader nearby to check prices, and a merch to sell stuff. Guild hall is convenient, and I don't have to turn on/off trade/local chat to hear myself think (or whomever I'm messaging). I don't pvp much, but I do an occasional scrimmage.  If you could just disallow heros from rated/unrated battles, that'd be great. 71.146.81.17 02:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * This is the worst update I have seen. My guild could care less about PVP and we have our hall for party building and testing. This is just unreal. I use my hall as an easy town with everything in it. This makes it useless to PVE guilds. Whats the point in having one if you can build your builds or equip your hero's there. Please find another way to make PVPrs happy and leave the PVE element alone. This is just wrong. I want all my plat back for buying all the NPC's if my hall is not going to be used. What a brainless idea this was, PLEASE PLEASE give us our heros back in the hall. I have been playing for 4 years and rarely complained about skill changes and such. But this? this is ridiculous.
 * Welcome, newcomer, to the Guild Wars community. We (the feedback space) are currently in the process of fixing bad updates, but for now, get used to them, they're pretty common. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 05:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome, newcomer, to the Guild Wars community. We (the feedback space) are currently in the process of fixing bad updates, but for now, get used to them, they're pretty common. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 05:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Good point there Shard, lets hope soon this matter will be addressed,in the mean time, a little patience MystiLefemEle 06:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This is indeed the worst update ever. Updates shouldn't break things that worked perfectly, like heroes in Guild Halls. And how hard could it be to check if there are no heroes in the party before allowing people to enter a battle. I can think of one short line of code that does it. Anyway, I hope this get fixed soon ;) Sanderevers 09:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the others here. It's very irritating having to leave my guild hall to set up my heroes. And having them kicked from party every time I return. Remy540 08:29, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They will probably fix that, if they get feedback. Well, i hope so. Elephant 10:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to agree that it is annoying in the extreme to not be able to use my guild hall to set up my heroes. Not only for builds, but also for equipping. Our guild routinely uses the guild hall to set up parties for pve play, and this is just bad. I hope it can be changed so that the heroes are only removed if you are entering GvG. Thanks! -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  10:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I second ..or third.. this idea. Setting up heroes in guild hall is something that helps in many ways, especially when in a big guild. I won't start rambling about this because you all know what I mean. Maybe a message like "Heroes cannot join battles, please use Henchies" :) I hope this will be fixed and thanks in advance. Markus Clouser [[Image:User_Markus_Clouser_signature_img.jpg|19px]] 12:01, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I join in. GH is used not only to stage GvG, but also to stage guild teams for PvE, where heroes are used exclusively instead of henchies, plus you can't take GH henchies when you finally travel to the mission you were going to do. It is much easier to gather a team in GH and then go where you need to, instead of instructing everyone to go to so-and-so town and to make sure they're all in the correct district and able to see each other in some of the crazy towns like "ahem" Henge of Denravi or Droknar's Forge, etc. Also, the rune trader was useful for selling/buying runes after checking if your heroes needed them first, now you have to do it in Spamadan. Plus, it's annoying if I hot to GH to give something to a guildie or pick them up for a partner mission, and then have to re-add all the heroes when I go back to PvE. Please, add a check that prohibits entering a GvG with heroes, and put them back in the GH. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 13:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree. There has to be a way to "Switch" the GH from PvE to PvP, for instance via a Guild Lord NPC (that should check if the person wanting the switch is the Guild Leader, or possibly an Officer). In "PvE mode", the Henchmen could be removed, Heroes enabled, Guild Battles disabled and everyone would view the PvE versions of skills. Right now, it's a real bother to PvErs. Being forced to split up to travel to their destination and viewing PvP versions of skills was annoying enough :/ &mdash; User_Poki_sig.png Poki#3  (talk ) 15:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Far more complicated then it needs to be. Just revert back to the way it was and then change it so it will not allow you to enter the GvG queue with heroes in the party. Scrimmages with heroes and heroes in the guild hall were actually a good thing, not a problem. Mr J 16:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Mr J, Scrimagging with Heros was actually fun, and it makes no odds to any pvp rankings. Please dont ban heroes from the GH, it was a place to set-up builds and weapons/armor for them. As said, place a block on the ability to enter a GvG match with heroes. Perhaps as they are now entirely PvE, in the skill window when setting up skills for your heroes, show the PvE versions?
 * NO, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SCRIMMAGE WITH HEROES EITHER! THEY WERE TOO POWERFUL. ALSO, MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK. YOU HAVE TO USE HENCHIES FOR SCRIMMAGES NOW! Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  17:11, 30 October 2009  (UTC)

http://twitter.com/guildwars/status/5292280513 -- pling 17:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Whay have you done this ? As several others mentioned ... NOT EVERYONE LIKES PVP ! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ? This is not the way to make people hopeful about GW2, This is not the way to get continue support from the players, and i think all of you at Anet need to sit back and think about what made this game  great in the first place. I think you should reverse many  quote" adjustments" to the game. This being the most recent one. It is completely and utterly stupid. What were you thinking ? Most players i know dont give a rat's ass about PVP. PVP is a side game, a diversion from  everything else. Try making improvements to help the players get through the game more smoothly. Im all for a challenge, but you went way overboard in the last year. If you really want to make it interesting ........ add something to DOA to make it more fun. Or how about adding some new areas or quests to keep the game fresh. Don't just keep taking away from us. We spent on money on your game. I bet you enjoyed your paycheck from it, right? If you want people to keep playing, and eventaully buy GW@. THINK BEFORE YOU DO SOMETHING. PVP IS NOT THE ONLY REASON WE PLAY. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soloist (talk &bull; contribs) at 17:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC).

OMG, IMO this is, without a doubt, the worst update ANet has forced upon us since the game was released. As the leader of a PvE guild, I can say that folks in my guild and our alliance are enraged about this. Does ANet really have no clue how people play the game? EVERY time I play the game I use my GH to set up my heros for PvE play. Then, between quests/missions I will portal to the GH to use the merchant, storage and other NPCs. Now, when I portal to the GH, my heros are dumped, forcing my team to set up all over again, after we exit the GH. The last thing ANet should be doing with this aging game is making it more difficult for people to play. I ask that ANet please change things back to the way they were, or at the very least allow Guild Halls to have a PvE mode, so that heros would be allowed in the GH. A PvE Guild Hall option would also get rid of the hideous new henchies in the Guild Hall, which make it FAR more difficult to navigate certain GH designs. Additionally, a PvE Guild Hall option would allow PvE players to see the PvE versions of their skills in the GH, enabling them to better verify the ways that their skills will function and properly set up their teams before heading out to PvE territories. --JET 19:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I really like this update, the henchmen are awesome in appearance, and I like how they're laid out. The limited interaction I see with two of them is a nice touch, and I'd love to see more of that in the Guild Hall. Well done there. :) (Tashiro 01:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC))

Guild Hall changes as per Oct 30 2009
Changing the Guild Halls so you can't add heroes to your party anymore was a bad call. Not from a PvP point of view, looking from that chair I really like it. PvE however loses THE big central staging area for every guild or alliance activity. The halls are quiet as far as local chat goes, have all traders etc packed in one area, perfectly suited for equipping, rebuilding and reskilling teammates as well as heroes, usually letting you form a party that is then transported to the PvE area which is about to be played. Now however, you can't even post builds to your teammates anymore without having to dig deep in your saved builds for some time. The quick way was to just add your Tahlkora, hit the button and post the build in Team Chat if you want a monk build for your buddy. Or even add the hero, then hit its load button to see all your respective saved builds, open one and post it. For repeateable things like dungeons, missions, the Halls were the areas in between. Win, go guild hall, sell, go back, take the quest again and go right back in. Now also made difficult to the max, forcing you to re-add heroes every time you go there to quickly buy/sell stuff or check the price for your findings at the traders. In my (and as the talk page for the update reveals, not only my) opinion, you should adress that issue slightly different. Let's say, grey out the "Start Battle" button as long as heroes are in the party. Or replace it entirely with a "remove Heroes" button if heroes are present. Or use the same duality that the Isle of the Nameless has to offer, PvE being standard and PvP being an optional instance that the Guild Lord (and maybe the map, via district list) lets you travel to. The only PvE area that is nearly as useful as the Hall is the Eye of the North, yet it's almost always crowded and by that makes sorting team members prety difficult at times. Please, give us back our beloved PvE staging area. It was the only and most important use left for us PvE players that we had for the Hall. --Golgarit Raven 03:44, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I second and third that suggestion. The Guild Hall isn't just a PvP-staging area, it's the sanctuary for PvE-players to meet up, setup builds and equipment for their heroes.
 * Please give that back to us, you can add checks for the PvP-activities and heroes instead of ruining the Guild Hall for PvE-players.
 * - Kherec 11:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks a thousand! :) Fixed it. --Golgarit Raven 22:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I am so disapointed that heros are no longer available in the guild hall for scrimage battles.. This was an excellent area for me to assist my fellow members in the teaching and testing of my clans hero builds and one of the main reasons why I went through all the trouble to purchase and outfit the hall in the first place.. My clan is very small so we are only able to play PvE at this time.. Being able to play against each other in the guild hall has elevated the fun of this game extremely..Playing a 2v2 putting my best hero up against my buddies best hero while we stand out of range was also a great deal of fun that I shall miss.. Im very very unhappy about this and look forward to an obtion in the future that will allow what I once had..Over $120 invested in this game and now suddenly feel I should begin to look elsewhere for my kicks..--Internal Affairs 18:27, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

HA Max Henchies ?
What is the max number of henchies supposed to be ? The messagebox still say you can't use more than 2 heroes or 2 henchies.Elephant 10:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Can the PVE henchies list their skills too?
I really like how you can talk to the Guild Hall henchies and they will list their skills. I think it would be great to expand that to the PVE henchies in towns and outposts... 98.216.203.166 11:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I second this. -- Hong 11:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Third. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 13:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Fourth. Manifold 15:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 5th --SharkinuUser Sharkinu sig.png 15:49, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 6th. It would save people looking up all the henchmen in an area just to see their builds.   smøni  16:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 7th. 71.146.81.17 18:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 8th. I really wish people would stop making suggestions of stuff that should have been done from day dot!  Geez guys. :P  000.00.00.00  21:05, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, this is just busy work of updating the dialogue of every henchie out there to have the skills list. Of course, they just didn't have the time to do it with all the others, and will get around to it sometime when they're not working hard(ly) on Hallo... err... Wint... err... Dragon... err... Fifth B... err... GW2 is finished... ^_^ [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 13:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Eliminating Guild Hall Bias
In order to eliminate bias towards PvP in Guild Halls, I suggest implementing the same setup currently used for Normal Mode vs. Hard Mode. Whenever you are in a Guild Hall, there will be two icons in your Party Search window: PvE Mode and PvP Mode. In order to change between modes, you simply click on the icon. This does not put you in a different Guild Hall, but rather simply locks/unlocks the differences between the two modes. For example, in PvE mode you will be able to equip Heroes and all skills will be displayed in their PvE versions. Whereas, in PvP mode Heroes will be blocked and all skills will be displayed in their PvP versions. All PvE characters will be able to access both PvE and PvP, while PvP characters can only access PvP. Due to this, I suggest making PvP the default mode. When switching from PvE to PvP, all heroes are automatically dropped from the party. When a person in one mode joins a party in the other mode, the new party leader decides which mode the party is in, unless it would put a PvP character in PvE mode. In such a case, the party would revert to PvP mode. Lastly, with such a setup, it may be possible to allow Guild skirmishes in PvE mode. This would give players the ability to test their PvE builds against other Guild members without disrupting normal PvP play.  Blood Red Giant   Mani Mortus  12:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you wish to make a suggestion, please create a Feedback user page by going to Feedback:Getting started, read the rules, and go from there. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  12:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also: people that enter with heroes in their party should be automaticly directed to the PvE mode without kicking the heroes. Sanderevers 13:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Will do Wyn, and I'll add that to the suggestion if you don't mind, Sanderevers.  Blood Red Giant  [[Image:User Blood Red Giant sig.jpg]]  Mani Mortus  13:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added the suggestion; however, I omitted Sanderever's addition as per the rules.  Blood Red Giant  [[Image:User Blood Red Giant sig.jpg]]  Mani Mortus  14:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

bad to worse
I consider myself a pretty avid player and fan of GW. but these recent updates have made me reconsider. '''I have a limited time to play and do not have 30 minutes to wait staring at the party screen hoping someone will play. PUG's have been less than ideal except in a few instances. I am mostly a PVE player.''' I have almost all account upgrades there are and now feel like I have wasted my money(pre orders, collector editions, max storage, skill packs, etc.). I was using the "updated" henchies and realized that as they are now they are useless(they died in 10 second in a battle). I only do AB's and a few zaishen arena PVP play. I have to agree that I use the guild as a staging area to gather what few active members we have to play. I even put down money for GW 2 pre-order and now am considering not even bothering with GW 2. maybe you guys need to adjust skills for the PVP crowd, instead of destroying their usefulness in PVE. I truly hope GW programmers are reading this and undo the damage that has been done. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.80.56.99 (talk).
 * Um, what damage are you talking about, exactly? All I see is you describing the GW upgrades you bought and something about PvP/PvE split. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 23:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[the henchmen skill balancing (nerfing) which makes them useless], my experience with PUG's has been horrible. either they have the "leet" attitude or they really can't play. [I dont have hours to sit around and wait](i have a family, job and responsibilities that take a large amount of my time) to build a good group of players and now the henchmen die so quickly that I was the last one alive and caused a major fail when i was doing a mission. I also dont have hours to spam guild invites to add players who leave a week after they join. it appears that they fixed the hero screw up though. it really seemed that this was about PVP issues and once again they messed up the PVE crowd to appease the PVP crowd. the damage I am referring to is the henchmen that I use most of the time are not balanced they are worthless. they added some good ones but they are not available where I do most of my playing. [If I have not been clear in my problem....I usually have to use henchmen to play and the "balanced" henchmen are nerfed not balanced.] I have no problem with the heroes not being usable in PVP, but when I did not have access to heroes in my guild for staging and adjusting skills, equip, runes,. etc it made the guild a worthless investment. the reason I made mention of things that were bought was simply because I wanted to stress that I have made a heavy investment into this game and the updates made my game play very unenjoyable. I also have two family member who play this game and they are also very tired of the endless miserable updates that are tilted in favor of the PVP crowd and usually have negative effects on PVE gameplay. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.226.232.235 (talk).
 * From what I know, the last henchman update, which updated their PvE builds, made them stronger than before, not weaker. I also use H/H groups for most of what I do, even in HM and dungeons. I can verify that the updated henchmen that I've used so far perform better or equally well compared to the old versions, haven't found any that were any worse, like you say. I still don't see what it is about henchmen that you are complaining about. The update didn't make them any worse than they were before, that's for sure. That doesn't mean that they're great, but they're not worse than they used to be for the last years, so I disagree with your notion of "Anet just now screwed up the henchmen and it ruined the game for me." [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 13:03, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I have a question for you. what henchies do you use on a regular basis? do you use a certain group for certain areas? I am willing to look at this from a different point of view. I have had a little better experience in the last week. What I do not have is someone in my guild that has played this for longer than I have with some other point of view or experience. any input that someone is willing to offer that might help me understand what I am missing would be greatly appreciated. I really dont want to stop playing, I have characters that get played on a regular basis as well as at least one character in each profession. I would like to find someone else in the game that I could join up with to get a better understanding and play the game better.


 * Well, I usually take a minion bomber hero when I can. In that case, the minions provide a meat shield, and it's safe to take a full caster party, which has more DPS, especially among henchmen. My usual team make up is 2 healer henchies, 2 ele henchies or ele+mesmer or ele+interrupt ranger, and a discord hero team. No matter what the case, I prefer to have 3 healer/prot/rt characters wherever I go (2 henchies and 1 hero). When minions aren't an option (corpse denial, fleshless foes), I take someone to tank and more imporantly, a few snares to shield the backline. Sumon Ice Imp is frequent on my bar, and sometimes a Water Ele hero or Ward Against Foes. All in all, I prefer caster teams, AI handles their builds and functions better than for warriors or sins. Hurta has to be my favorite henchie overall. :) If you need specific advice, feel free to give me a hollar on my talkpage or in game. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 21:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Uh bro, you can clear most areas in the game with your character and 3 hero bars alone. The henchmen spots are not important in the least. The old bars were terrible - they had shit like random bad attack skills, no interrupts, subpar heals, terrible prots, and the AI used none of it well, yet I still beat anything I wanted to with H/H. You need to stop blaming your bars being bad on the henchmen bars being bad, because they were simply improved across the board. - Auron 21:30, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

To Rose of Kali Thank you for giving input I can use and learn from. also thank you for the offer of in game help. you seem to be a generally good person who wants to help. again thank you. I will try to find your talk page in the search and I assume that your IGN is rose of kali. I look forward to game play with someone helpful. I also have found recently that herta or however you spell that name is one of the better henchies.

To Auron although you may very well be correct about my hero skill bars and my characters bars....if you read all that has been said (1) I was the last one standing when my mission failed, my character bar was working great (2) not everyone absorbs game mechanics the same way or at the same rate (3) I do not have hours to pour over every skill and try to memorize what has the best synergy. (4) I guess I adjusted my game play to the henchmans skills and made them work for me (5) instead of just telling me "I beat it all with h/h", post your templates and I will give them a try..... please dont send me to pvx wiki, those templates are over used and anet seems to nerf the most successful templates. I did state that I was interested in help/suggestions not "your skill bars suck". I also stated that I have had some success with the new henchie bars, not as great of success as with the old (not sure why that is). I usually dont have any problems finishing missions/quests. I still am not sold on the changes but I will adapt. If you are willing to help, please reply with info so I can learn something.


 * The key to understanding my spelling of "Hurta" is in one for her battle quotes: "My ex used to spell my name H-U-R-T-A. Guess why." It's based on the word "hurt." ;) [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 23:49, 19 November 2009 (UTC)