Talk:Signet of Binding

Signet of Creation vs Signet of Binding
Which is better? Attribute aside, lets do a comparison of Signet of Creation and Signet of Binding at level 12.

At level 12, Signet of Binding adds +170 life. At level 12, Signet of Creation adds +6 life regeneration which implies up to +360 life, making Signet of Creation the obvious winner for health gain if your spirit lasts the full 30 seconds.

However likely, you will be using on spirits which have their health reduced (and to be replenished to maintain the effect). For Signet of Creation to be worth using, it'd have to stay alive a full 14.17 seconds (amount of time it takes for +6 life to surpass 170 life).

For Rejuvenation at level 15, if more than two allies are under the effect of Rejuvenation (keep in mind it only affects allies with less than 100% health), then it means Rejuvenation would die sooner than 15 seconds, making Signet of Binding a better choice in most situations.

For Agony at level 15, the mechanics are exactly the same as for Rejuvenation, except that it affects all foes, not only those with less than 100% health, meaning Signet of Binding is best.

All other spirits either don't expire unless killed or lie in Communing, which would almost certainly be a better pick to use Signet of Binding for its attribute points already in it (or a combination if desired).

This would make Signet of Binding the obvious pick for any Binding Ritual except you have to consider that Signet of Creation utilizes Spawning Power, increasing the life of all spirits created. At level 12, Spawning power increases the life of a spirit by 48%.

Looking back at Rejuvenation at level 15, Rejuvenation would have 474 life (rather than 320 life with 0 in Spawning Power), meaning it could support more players for more amount of time. If three allies are under the effect of Rejuvenation at any given moment, it makes the duration last around 15 seconds, meaning Signet of Creation would be more worthwhile for supporting three players or less. Beyond three, the duration lasts less than 15 seconds and would be better suited for Signet of Binding.

--Eyekwah 15:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Other trade-offs: Creation affects more things (many v one) more often (10s v 15s) but casts twice as slow (2s v 1s). Creation is available in the profession's home campagin, but at about the same point you could get to Binding if you have Nightfall. --Star Weaver 17:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The issue with Creation is that it will affect minions, and if I don't want my minions (presumably of another character) to have forced death, I am have no choise but to use signet of binding. --Discomb 11:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Preferably I use this with Wanderlust. It's effect will extend to almost 8 shots.--ShadowFog 18:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Heroes
I am very interested in how heroes use this skill. From my brief experiments, I found that my spirit support ritualist uses it very effectively on spirits of rejuvenation and union, severely extending their life cycle. The only time she used the signet on Life or Preservation was when the aforementioned spirits were under attack. However, in the chaos of battle I was unable to see if she used it on minions instead of spirits, when those came to be, and my suspicion is that she did.

Does the AI code in fact separate minions from spirits as summoned creatures, and only uses the signet on minions if there are no dying spirits within range? If not, how fair would it be if it did so? --Discomb 11:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Relation
I noticed the skill Signet of Ghostly Might was not under the 'related skills' section, so I'm going to put it in. The way I'm thinking they're related is they're both Ritualist skills that cause x effect to target allied spirit(s)/minions(s) for y seconds, and then cause death. Feel free to remove it if you feel they aren't related, but please explain why if you have. - WeHeartKatamari 20:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Sunjiang District/Slaver's Exile Spirits
Somebody SO needs to bring this skill into Sunjiang District/Slaver's Exile and test it on the spirits to see what happens. I would SO laugh my ass off if we could use this skill to turn all of Duncan's spirits against him, and then just sit back and watch the fun. XD - Zaxares 03:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It works on Spirit of Portals in Sunjiang. You can even have more than one of them.  But found a bug in the process, stealing Recuperation didn't work properly... no regen.  04:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that should be reported then. Does capturing the Spirit of Portals still count towards the mission goals though? Oooh! We should try it on the Mallyx spirits too! XD - Zaxares 04:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * found out why recup wasn't working in slavers...it's still sided for the foes. was tested through thier minions somehow having no degen when summoned 96.13.97.65 15:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * For no reason, I tested the redone Signet in Sunjiang as well. You can take all four Spirit of Portals and control/own all four at once.  Controlling them DOES count as killing them as far as mission objectives go.  Taking Inflicted Spirits of Life did seem to trigger its healing when it died to my party.  Did not test on Spirits of Recuperation. Testing in the Echovald Forest also lead to the realization you can control multiple of the same generic spirit, such as multiple Spirits of Bloodsong.  However, the moment you move them (with Summon Spirits anyway) any duplicates seem to poof.  It maybe if you bind duplicate spirits that are really close to each other, this will happen on its own.  Worth noting that the Spirit of Portals COULD be moved together as a group, perhaps as they have some special effect that lets them ignore normal duplicate spirit rules. 24.94.255.110 05:11, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless, it's funny to bring even a single portal spirit with you in the fight against the four constructs. Paddymew 10:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What's even funner is having Duncan the Black's lv. 22 spirits attack him for you, Also once you've "capture" any of them them and then they are killed they respawn back under your control.(marsc 22:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC))
 * what happens if u use Summon Spirits ? same kind of spirits die then respawn and stay alive or do they automatically die again ? Elephant 16:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well since marsc has already mentioned the most important part of my research, I will now present my research on Signet of Binding in Slaver's Exile.
 * If you use it on any of the spirits it will remain yours forever
 * (If the spirit dies it will rez still under your controll)
 * You can move it with summon or draw spirit as much as you want
 * (If the spirit dies it will rez wherever it last was)
 * Multiple copies of the same spirit can be controlled at once
 * (None of them will die from summon spirits)
 * If you use painful bond on your target it will trigger every time any of the spirits attacks with their skill or just auto-attack
 * (Duncan's Defense will trigger on you from painful bond so be careful with it)
 * The recuperation spirits still have no effect on your party after using signet of binding on them
 * (For the most part bringing them with you isn't an issue because the Dwarfs will kill em soon as they see em and the regeneration doesn't stack if it effects them at all)
 * There may be more but I don't think so and remember
 * '''My post only counts for the spirits found on Thommis', Selvetarm's, and Duncan's floors, The spirits found on Forgewight's floor only have one life beyond that the above is still valid. --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 21:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That. Is. AWESOME! Good job researching, Tenri! This makes Duncan a cakewalk now if you have the patience to slowly capture all of his spirits, then just use Summon Spirits to summon them all into his range and watch the fun. (You may want to capture and move separate groups of spirits at a time though, due to Duncan's use of Spirit Rift, which will probably massacre a tightly bunched group of spirits.)


 * Next step, finding out if capturing Mallyx's Anguish spirits will cause their nasty, NASTY environment effects to be applied on HIM. XD - Zaxares 01:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It may take a while to capture all the spirits but it is at least twice as fast as swapping them all away and 2000% safer --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 02:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This was quietly nerfed with the nerf mallet at some point recently, no announcement was made. You can no longer control these type spirits, possibly others as well.


 * The skill probably needs to be reworded or reworked to accomodate the update, as the phrase "take control of target spirit" is rather misleading since it may or may not work on some spirits. Flipper 07:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Target is not an enemy minion." Bah humbug. 66.190.15.232 08:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep the ability to use signet of binding on slaver's spirits no longer exists so my research is invalid now, I'm not surprised it was the reason I waited so long to post my research. I had finished all the research on Friday the 19th after the update, but I think it may have been nerfed on the Monday the 22nd update before I posted my research, what I want to know is why quietly? if you fixed a problem why not tell anyone what it was. Side note all other skills that effect spirits still work fine like swap or consume soul, or require a nearby spirit for an additional effect like spirit light or mend body and soul. --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 18:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not sure why it was done in stealth. Although if players knew that others were running through these dungeons with ease, even for a few days, it might cause some hard feelings for the majority players considering the demand for voltaic spears.


 * The skill is a novel concept, but should probably have its attribute re-assigned to Spawning Power instead of Communing to prevent abuse from secondaries and to encourage Ritualist primaries. The skill should scale upwards as well, for instance "Signet. You lose 200...80...50 Health and take control of target spirit of up to level 5...8...20." Thus spirits in Slaver's and other elite areas SHOULD allow players to take control of them, but only by Spawning Rits strong enough to do so. This would also have the additional effect of finally giving Rits a place in some PVE elite parties. Flipper 21:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

change plz

 * At least add a sentence. Armor of Unfeeling got buffed and Signet of Binding took the hit. Either Half-assed job or irony after irony of nerfing.--ShadowFog 05:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Works on Allied Spirits?
Hey guys, could someone test out whether this skill works on spirits belonging to your allies? It'd be a sweet skill if you're able to transfer control of all damage-dealing spirits on a ritualist team to a single ritualist with Signet of Ghostly Might. 129.97.190.245 15:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I already tested this and you can't --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 18:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The wording, eh? It doesnt said hostile like Verata's Aura does. It can throw you off.--ShadowFog 19:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Another question is, does it work on Anguished Soul? Guess not but it's worth a try? :P --M age [[image:user MageMontu sig.png| ]]M ontu 21:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it only works on Binding or Nature rituals. :P --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] flame my shove sin bar!  10:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it works on any spirit. Same thing why the Spirit of portals can be controlled. 219.75.7.78 07:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So you could steal all of the spirits in the fight against Shiro and not worry about climbing up the mountain anymore? SWEET. Paddymew 10:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Wailing Lords
Does it work on them? ^^ -- Gah_  18:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently not. -- Gah_  19:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Such a brave skill
Stealing a Recup or a well time sig of binding on life is soooo brave, and cool. Frosty 13:50, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Since signet of binding is so brave it transcends time I feel comfortable saying I agree. Except now you'll be stealing their life. Norwegian Thunder 10:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Still Bugged
When you use Signet of Binding on a Spirit of Restoration, it still resses the allies of the original owner of the spirit and does nothing to the allies of the player who stole it. 173.27.173.188 22:30, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

21 Communing = You gain a spirit AND 10 health?
Well, it says that you lose -10 health, so...? Paddymew 10:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Max attribute rank is 20 though. Dunno why attribute progression template takes it over to 21... Mediggo 10:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * iirc 21 is possible with a staff proc. Misery  11:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that was possible with like Fire/Earth etc (Glyph of Elemental Power etc), but I am not sure how you would get 20 communing tbh. Frosty 10:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 12+1+3, Grail of Might, Candy Corn, Gold Egg, Ritualist of Grenth Blessing and a Master of My Domain proc. #_____^ Mr J 10:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see, thank you Pirate Doctor! Frosty 10:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I know it's a little late, but Ritual Lord also looks helpful for this. --RoyHarmon 22:40, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

spirit of portals (Sunjiang District)
What does this skill do there? Do they give any kind of effect when you capture them for your side? 24.233.254.51 15:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dude just thought the same thing and wtf screamed :P
 * No, it doesn't recognize it as a possible ally. Magic  [[Image:User Magic Signature Ico.jpg|19px]] Talk  03:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Must target an enemy minion"... Dammit! Paddymew 19:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Duncan the Black
This skill does not seem to work on the spirits created by Duncan the Black at the end of Slavers' Exile. I had it on Razah (who used it perfectly throughout the rest of the dungeon branches) but he could not activate it on the spirits at the end. Since we were playing in Hard Mode, this was unbelievably annoying. Can anyone confirm that it doesn't work on those spirits? --RoyHarmon 22:09, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You are right it wont work on those spirits or any of the other spirits in Slavers' exile anymore while it used to when the change was first made they quickly and quietly made it not work. --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 16:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No longer works on Mallyx's spirits either. It said the target was a "minion" not a spirit. -Cody


 * wonder if those verata skills would work on them then, since it says they are a "minion". personn5[[Image:User_Personn5_sig.jpg|19px]] 03:16, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Related Skills
Should Gaze of Fury and Consume Soul be related skills? My reasoning is that they share the quality of having the same effect of making target enemy spirit cease to be an enemy spirit, either by changing its ownership to friendly or by destroying it. Datrulegend 22:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Gaze of Fury is certainly related, it replaces an enemy spirit with a friendly one. - Maskeus User Maskeus sig.jpeg 13:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

November 2010 Update
I think this is stupid. Not the move from Communing to Spawning Power, but the fact that there's a failure rate for a SIGNET. Any class can still repeatedly use the signet, and if it fails: You Lose NOTHING. Therefore, I think it's pointless to add a failure rate for something that doesn't cost anything to begin with.
 * It costs 2.75 seconds. Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Neptune.jpg|19px]] 21:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Mesmers -- Oiseau | User_Oiseau_Melandru.jpg 02:45, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No aftercast on failed spells. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  0:38, 2 Mar 2011 (UTC)