User:Raine Valen/Underpowered Skills/Elementalist

Double Dragon

 * Completely inviable skill. Elementalists should not be tanking, the recharge makes this worse than the non elites Inferno and Flame Burst, and the AoE is way too small to be useful. Inferno and Flame Burst also do more initial damage.
 * Suggestion- Make it ranged, lower recharge to make it competitive with SF. The 15 energy cost should be enough to prevent people from mindlessly spamming it. -15e 3/4s 1r "Generates Double Dragon at target foe's location, inflicting 7...91...112 fire damage to all adjacent foes. After 2 seconds, it inflicts 7...91...112 damage to foes adjacent to that location."
 * "Generates Double Dragon at target foe's location, inflicting 7...91...112 fire damage to all adjacent foes that are not burning and they suffer Burning for 1 second. After 2 seconds, Double Dragon causes 7...91...112 fire damage and burning for 1 second."
 * 6 eles using this in HA would be instagib. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  01:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So would 6 elementalist spamming Searing Flames. Though since you asked nicely, let me revise. I just invalidated its use in spike builds.
 * I think, damage if they're not burning, 2 secs burning, then damage again if they're not burning, so if someone recasts it, then they'll take damage a maximum of 2 times (at the beginning and the end of the burning); kind of like Shatterstone, but not a hex. Only problem is, it wouldn't have synergy with Immolate or other skills that cause burning, which is common in Fire Magic.  Also, please sign.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * How about making it a hex, that deals it's damage twice, at the end of each second. That would prevent people from spiking with it. 145.94.74.23 08:37, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This was fixed in the recent update. 145.94.74.23 12:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, totally overpowered now. Should be added to the other list. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  12:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not. It still has to compete with Savannah and Searing, those are both more powerful than this. In PvP, Elementalists are only worth bringing for utility or SF, and in PvE, you need your elite and a glyph just to deal as much extra damage as the Ebon Vanguard ward gives you. Not worth the trouble, and it is nothing that wasn't already possible. Cryway is way more powerful. 145.94.74.23 09:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This is actually balanced now. Only overpowered in groups with SF and arcane mimicry.

Flare, Ice Spear, Stone Daggers & Lightning Strike
,, &
 * It takes the Elementalist 5 energy just to get close to the free DPS of physical damage dealers.
 * Suggested functionality changes:
 * Reduce it's energy cost to 1 (and maybe lower the damage a bit to compensate, also a solution for combining them with Attunements will have to be found).
 * Change them into wand/staff attacks that add +current damage.
 * Change Ice Spear to match the effect, damage and range of Flare.
 * Change functionality of Flare to: Spell.   All foes adjacent to you are blinded for 8 seconds.  This would match the concept of a "flare," which is traditionally used as a lighting device moreso than an incendiary one.  By giving it a high recharge and adjacent-range only, it ensure it'll be used a defense spell and not be used to replace BSurge or Flash, since blindness is air magic's specialty anyway.
 * Change functionality of ice spear to: Enchantment Spell.   Summon an Ice Spear of your level at your location.  This spear has no skills and Spear Mastery equal to your rank in water magic.  It attacks a random target or the foe you are attacking, but only does two-thirds normal spear damage, and is not customized.  The spear has 80 armor and 480 health.  If this enchantment is removed, the spear is destroyed instantly.  Stone Daggers could have a similar effect, but to summon daggers instead of a spear, though you could remove that "two-thirds normal damage" clause since daggers have low damage anyway.
 * Increase Lightning Strike's damage to 79. --Jette 19:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually making this cost 1 energy would be free damage but wouldnt warriors/dervs/w/e stil ldeal more damage the problem is its not worth energy NOR TIME Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  15:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * . Skill.  For  seconds, while wielding a fire/water/earth wand/staff, your attacks become flares/ice spears/stone daggers (with the current effects).
 * Boom. Done.  Wanding is srs bsns now.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  10:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * in b4 flail eles --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 17:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It could be worth the time Lilondra in a build that used nukes and then has nothing to do for a few seconds 145.94.74.23 10:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I prefer an Immolate for that. Since fire is the only element that nukes, I'm not going to discuss spammable skills for the other ones.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  20:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Icy Shackles

 * Due to the recent nerf, this skill has lost nearly all its functionality, and can easily be replaced by Mind Freeze, or even Freezing Gust, and not lose the elite slot. --216.125.168.2 17:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Suggested functionality changes:
 * Elite Hex Spell. For seconds, target foe's movement speed is reduced by 66% and that foe takes  cold damage each second while moving. While under the effects of an Enchantment, that foe's movement is reduced by 90%.
 * I'd lower it's duration if it is going to deal damage per second. Even if it's only while moving. How about a simple 'deals damage when applied' effect? 145.94.74.23 08:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh. This skill is pretty powerful, should be reworked. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  12:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * TBH youre an idiot if you think that spell would be anything nearly balanced. Its basicly mind freeze minus exhaustion + damage  Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  18:15, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Mind freeze is saddening for non-arenas. Anything with exhaustion is saddening in non-arenas.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  19:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest you run it btw ORLY  Its not because it has exhaustion it's bad, energy storage is an exhaustion buffer you might a swell use it  Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  19:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Right, it's a buffer. Which means that it eventually runs out.  As an elite snare on a snare ele, being able to use it once every 30 seconds is pretty meh.  I mean, I'd rather have a second copy of Freezing Gust on my bar than Mind Freeze, tbh.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  18:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding me ? TBH you wont be fighting all the time.So you wont have to use this all the time.Mind freeze is a decent skill TBH.BTW gale is an awesome skill and also causes exhaustion.Exhaustion is 1 of the things that shows Anet DOES have the talent.Ow BTW icy shackles is NOT UP.It has just fallen out of favor because of buffs to other skills wich made people that run the me/e shackles mesmers (and thus were 90 % of the time very very gay) play something else (again 95 % of the time something even more gay) Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  17:52, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The question becomes whether you want a snare that you can use (on average) once every 30 seconds. Okay, it does meh damage.  It's still unimpressive.  It's the same deal with Shackles.  It's not bad, it's just not particularly impressive compared to its non-elite counterparts.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  20:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Elite Spell. If target foe is already suffering from a water magic hex, that foe and all adjacent foes take  Cold damage and move 90% slower for  seconds.  Otherwise, target foe is struck for  Cold damage and moves 66% slower for  seconds.
 * I think that would be pretty sexy. Ofc, kappaspike would love it.  But whatever.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  18:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait since when is a incredibly good snare UP Oo also Mind freeze can't be compared with this I agree but having a guaranteed 90% snare is nice Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  20:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it's just about as good as Freezing Gust, in all honesty. Above selection is an elite Freezing Gust.
 * However, I'm beginning to think that Freezing Gust is OP. I've been playing water ele a lot lately, and that skill is just hella good.  Not broken, but it's just really, really good.  100% uptime non-elite snare for 10e, seriously?  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  20:43, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You take both Freeing Gust and Shackles to keep two people easily snared, you can't do that with just Freezing Gust, or taking both Freezing Gust and Shard Storm. If you don't want the Shatterstone damage, taking this works amazing to shut two other wars down, or offensively snaring.  Prose 20:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Between WoWarding, Steam, and Freezing Gust, a single water ele can incapacitate two physicals pretty easily. With Blurred or Shard Storm (though I don't personally use them on a regular basis), one could further increase the melee shutdown capacity.  A second snare is nice, but why should a second, elite snare be taken as a spare, of sorts?  Freezing Gust steals the show; creating an elite that still serves its previous purpose while also offering something above and beyond its non-elite counterpart wouldn't be so far out of line, I'd think.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  21:16, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Blurred and Steam don't keep stuff in place for your wars to kill. It's sort of like taking Magebane and d-shot together. Prose 21:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't more Rangers use BA? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  21:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Rangers do still run Magebane in TA, but then they take it with dshot, Magebane is usually taken as a replacement for Savage Shot, so Mr. Prose, wut? Misery  00:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I was comparing taking both skills, not what you drop for them. I don't know. Prose 01:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 9-10 seconds of 90 % snare is quite impressive if you ask me really.Remember if you dont fight for a minute you already lose 20 exhaustion ;) Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  17:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Lightning Orb(PvP)

 * Lightning Orb(PvP) is worse than Fireball in almost all ways; Fireball has lower energy cost, AoE, a better attribute, and the same cast time, but marginally lower damage and higher recharge.
 * Suggested improvement
 * Give it "adjacent" AoE in both PvE and PvP.
 * It has 25% armor penetration and is in a much more versatile attribute line than fireball. So, no this skill is just fine imo. Adjacent range would be absolutely overpowered. Vortex ™ 08:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * How about reduce energy to 10? And air is NOT more versatile than fireball. Let's see, air magic doesn't get this, this, this, or this.
 * Versatile means that it can be used in several different ways. Air can deal damage, cause knock-down, blind enemies, weaken their defense, daze casters and make allies run faster. That's versatile. Fire, on the other hand, can only do 1 thing: deal damage. Sure, it's very good at dealing damage, but it's not versatile. At all. (Burning is just a different way of dealing damage and where Fire has Glowing Gaze, Air has Shock Arrow.) 145.94.74.23 09:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lightning orb is fine. If the elite is air, orb will almost always be in the build. Also, nobody runs fireball, ever, and pretty much every air bar has lorb. I wonder why that is, if fireball is so much better? :P - Auron 10:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * While I agree that Lightning Orb is fine, I think that Auron's last comment is because Fire has many alternatives to Fireball that are more practical/powerful, while Lightning Orb is basically the strongest/cheapest/most versatile version of it's kind. It still doesn't need AoE though. The Air AoE's, they need to get rid of that 3 hits max cap.145.94.74.23 09:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lightning Orb as AoE...the only way that could possibly be balanced is generating a projectile for each foe (a la Barrage). Especially in PvE where it also causes Cracked Armor. And would there be any reason to take Invoke Lightning, ever? Doubtful... Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 10:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a different point. Both Invoke Lightning and Chain Lightning need an aggressive buff.
 * Yes, airspikes are definitely good for the game and need to be made viable again. - Auron 12:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would anyone ever need an airspike? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  13:00, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Forget SF spike and airspike, just run something broken like sway, wounding strike, or hexway with VoR.
 * I think the correct answer to that would be Bar Compression Raine. Did I win the refrigerator? 145.94.74.23 10:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The reason people compress bars is so that they can put more skills on those bars, for added utility or damage. Now, why would anyone running SF ever need added damage?  That being said, three optional slots per ele should be more than enough to pack whatever utility, since SF does enough damage on its own.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  20:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Who runs SF with Lightning Orb?
 * ...What? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  23:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Meteor Shower

 * Not useful at all in PvP, and has little use in PvE. 5 second casting+60 second recharge+3 seconds for opponents to scatter+less energy efficient than any other ele spell that I know of+exhaustion-KD-Damage-AoE=Bad skill, nevertheless. Tearh 03:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It is very useful in PvE, because enemies don't flee from it. That is a hidden effect, but a very powerful one.


 * Actually this skill led iQ to victory if i'm not mistaking it is NOT UP.The power creep and the removal of VoD just made this fell out of Favor Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  18:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * When are you ever going to get a 5-second cast off in serious PvP? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  19:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * once every 90 seconds BTW it pwnz npc's but the thing was the suprise back then  Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  19:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The people that think that this skill is underpowered in PvE really don't know how it works in practice. Knock-down = very powerful. AoE knock-down = superpowerful. Multiple AoE knock-downs + damage that doesn't scatter enemies...well, you get the idea. 145.94.74.23 10:12, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking about PvE. I don't think anyone was, really.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  21:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Spell. Create a Meteor Shower at target foe's location.  Every second for  seconds, one random foe in the area and all adjacent foes are struck for  Fire damage.  Affected foes who were not moving are knocked down for  seconds.  The same foe cannot be struck more than twice.
 * Okay. So here's what happens.  First, you spend forever casting this.  Then, when it doesn't get dshotted, pleaked, or whatever, a bunch of Meteors (y'know, like the skill, Meteor) start hitting people, exactly like Meteor, but with a scaling KD and less damage.  You can cast this once every 5 seconds, energy permitting (lol), which is enough to keep the effect going at high attribute levels.  That is, if you don't get dshotted or pleaked or whatever.  That last clause is there so you can't just cast a MS on a monk with no allies in the area and lolKDlock him forever.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  21:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Mind Burn

 * Added because exhaustion is too expensive when you can just use Searing Flames to inflict AoE burning for a comparable amount of time. Conditions are easily removed, exhaustion is not. Too conditional and unreliable.
 * I would suggest 5e 1s 3r "Target foe is struck for 15...51...60 fire damage. If you have more energy, target foe is struck for an additional 15...51...60 fire damage, suffers from Burning for 1...6...7 seconds, and Mind Burn takes an additional 5 seconds to recharge.
 * This is a tricky skill to buff (if you want to keep it similar to its sister skills, otherwise not so tricky). Maybe change the exhaustion to only apply if you fail to meet the condition? 145.94.74.23 10:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Stone Sheath

 * It is generally agreed unpon that this skill as an undesirable effect even if it wasn't an elite. Furthermore, it only stops the damage of the critical hit, not the hit itself, so skills like Critical Agility still refresh. Last but not least, Stone Striker makes it completely obsolete.
 * Suggested changes:
 * Add weakness.
 * Add immunity to weapon spells.
 * Add damage reduction to target's attacks.
 * Change it to a non-elite spell.
 * Change functionality to: Elite hex spell.   Target foe and all adjacent foes are struck for 105 earth damage and are slowed by 90% for 6 seconds.  Basically, Ice Spikes on crack.  Possibly increase energy cost to 25 because all Earth spells are required to have a debilitating disadvantage for some reason.  --Jette 19:08, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * NO! That is fucking overpowered. If you add weakness, reduce the duration. Don't change it to the last thing, it's bloody overpowered. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  12:46, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It'd only be overpowered if people use it with stupid hex stacks so it can't be removed. And, alright, the damage could use to be reduced a little.  Fine, my new suggestion is "ranged Grasping Earth."  GE is almost strong enough to be elite as it is considering the duration, so making it ranges should be fine.  --Jette 13:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Making the target immune to weapon spells would be a good place to start imho. 145.94.74.23 09:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Removing weapon spells from the game would be a good place to start, tbh... or at least making any enchantment-removal spell capable of removing a weapon spell. --Jette 10:03, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Disarm. Attack target foe to remove their unstrippable rit buff.
 * They should be removable, just not by the same means as enchantments; then a team could counter them without having to make adjustments. Any spell that counters both just turns weapon spells into enchantments.  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  18:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)  P.S.: The disarm thing is not srs bsns.
 * Well, yeah. That's, uh, kind of the idea.  Weapon spells are overpowered because their effects are stronger than most enchantments despite being more difficult to counter.  If something is difficult to counter, it should A) be weaker than something difficult to counter or B) have some hideous disadvantage.  Example: Wail of Doom would probably be okay if it had a 50% health sacrifice tacked onto it.  Well... not really, but you get the idea.  (I wish something had a 50% health sacrifice on it, though.  Then I could finally try to find a use for ravenous gaze.  om nom nom)  The extra five energy Weapon of Warding costs, for example, is a joke because it lasts almost twice as long as Guardian, can't be stripped, and gives (negligible) regen.  Then you've got bullshit like Xinrae's weapon, which is basically 3 skills in one.  If weapon spells in general were weaker than enchantments since they have the advantage of being totally unremovable, it would be fine.  But they're not: generally, they're much more powerful than enchantments.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 06:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * While this is not about weapon spells, they do have a a downside too: you can only have one of them active at the same time. Too bad that concept got ruïned by the fact that most of them only last a few seconds. 145.94.74.23 21:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Chain Lightning

 * Useless garbage. Less damage than Rodgort's, only with exhaustion. Cast time is trash. Needs a buff.
 * Suggestions
 * 15e 2r 5s, remove exhaustion, increase damage to match Lightning Orb.
 * Again, I'd start by removing the target cap. That would probably suffice for an attribute that isn't meant to target multiple enemies (you have to think in relative terms: AoE is very powerful for Air, where it is standard for Fire). 145.94.74.23 10:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because the only thing Fire Magic does is damage. Give Fire Magic utility, remove damage = fixed. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  12:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Invoke Lightning

 * Really, if I want to do massive AoE damage, I'll just use Mind Blast + Rodgort's Invocation.
 * Suggestions
 * 10e 1s 8r, remove exhaustion, change conditional to "Strikes only 2 foes if you are not enchanted".
 * I'd start with removing the amount of targets cap and see how if it needs more buffs after that has been played for a while. 145.94.74.23 10:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Obsidian Flame

 * Underpowered compared to magnetic surge which does not have exhaustion. No synergy with energy management.
 * Suggestions
 * Reduce damage slightly, increase energy to 10, remove exhaustion.
 * This skill is way more powerful than Magnetic Surge. The exhaustion is harsh, yes, but so is an armor-ignoring spike that is available every 5 seconds. How many skills deal that much armor ignoring damage with such a small recharge? At the very least, turning it into a copy of Magnetic Surge will not improve it. 145.94.74.23 10:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It deals the damage of Fire Magic, but gives exhaustion, has crap recharge and oh it is armor ignoring. Who cares about that. Cracked Armor if you really dislike armor tbh. Dark Morphon  (contribs)  12:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 5 second recharge is still crap if it destroys your energy bar. This suggestion won't promote lame spikes because of the slightly reduced damage. Cast time is still 2 seconds so it's dshot/CoF food.