User talk:Xeeron/Ursan Blessing

Why: a not so counterargument
While i agree than Ursan Blessing needs to be toned down at least to the level of the other EotN blessings, i think the supported arguments for now fail a little.


 * It reduces the differences between clases to almost zero: There are only monks and ursans (of any class).
 * Which, as far as i understand it, is pretty much the reason why these forms where introduced: as a way to make non-wanted clases to be used also (you don't want a sin in Ascalon HM? ok, he goes ursan). Also, note that it has been a feature in Guild Wars not making the game class restrictive by allowing players to change their secondary as needed. The developers taking the next step into that direction was a logical outcome (even if it backfired).


 * It reduces the differences between skills to zero: You only use one skill, Ursan Blessing, all other 500+ skills are irrelevant.
 * While the statement stands true (one skill only, plus maybe a rez), when put in context it makes no real difference to the previous state of the game. For anywhere in PvE, players where usually asked to use a "cookie-cutter" build which made the game a "8-skills only, all other 500+ are irrelevant", and those who dared to try being creative faced the same problems they face now against Ursan. Taking ursan out of the way will not be the definitive solution to this.


 * It reduces the difficulty of PvE to zero: With a full Ursan team (and a few consumables for the really really bad players), everyone can do every mission. Guaranteed.
 * While i can't 100% agree with such statement (i have seen enough reports of ursan teams failing miserably because of players over-extending), i think this is the most important reason we should have in mind. A Ursan Team should just not be allowed to exist, and sure as hell consumables should not be able to affect ursans, or any of the EotN forms.
 * I would like to extend myself into this. I use Ursan, and i only H/h. While the blessing is a great adition to the arsenal (in my case, of a warrior who when is not blind, is weakened), is by no mean the definitive weapon for PvE. A single ursan has to face all the counters this skill has: e-denial, degen, hex-slow, and any skills that increase the recharge time (like Diversion); with so many counters, i DO have to utilize a good enough skill bar if i want to succeed. Heck, there are places where (while H/h) using ursan instead of a normal skill bar is actually a bad idea.
 * Ursan teams have none of these counters. With 6 "bears", your average NPC group has not the hability to shut down them all. And may Dwayna forbid if your group manages to place the npcs in a tight arrangement, because they just end wasted by knockdowns.

I know this is not the place to post suggestions, and that Xeeron's intention is not gather those either but, as i see it, the solution to Ursan (or any EotN form) is not really "nerfing" the skill, but instead making sure these "ursan" teams (or raven, or wolf) just can't exists. That, and improving the AI so a Ursan is more often than not the target of skills that make him useless (a ursan with strike and rage diverted is as good as your average tank, after all).--Fighterdoken 23:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Additionally
totally right, a challenge is only a challenge if there is no possibility which requires less skill. but before we go and nerf ursan, shadow form needs a ban hammer. - Y0_ ich_halt  07:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * qft &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 08:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nobody runs shadow form in balanced teams, though. It's just as slow as those silly obs flesh wars. - Auron 08:05, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Running is a piece of cake with it. Also Any/A's can still do it. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 08:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * i know, was me afterall who submitted the Any/A runner to pvx :P and sf is imo still a bigger issue. my cartographers are gonna be worthless if any idiot can run everything :P - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 08:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Cartographers aren't already? :/
 * The only titles that are skill over grind are the PvP ones (and all of those require an assload of grind, too, thanks to the impossible-to-reach caps). I think leg guardian requires a bit of practice on some missions (hard mode eternal for example), but for the most part, all titles show are willingness to grind. They stopped showing actual skill when texmod came out and when consumables made running around maps super easy. While ones like leg. skill hunter show more supergrind than others, none of them are really... admirable anymore.
 * Some titles are simply flawed anyway. Cartographer shouldn't be about wallhugging. It should be attainable by just going around in each area like you usually would, not taking six times longer scraping each wall in case you missed something. But, IMO, none of them are more poorly-designed than Drunkard - I dunno what the hell anet expected from that one, but it just came out a failure. - Auron 09:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * i guess they thought idiots who think they have to drink that much should be rewarded. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 09:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah... I suffered through tier 1 of it with my gf, and it was only bearable because we talked on vent. We didn't zone out or anything, so we didn't waste much alcohol, but it was still a grind I never want to repeat again.
 * I hope ANet doesn't honestly wonder why people use bots and macros for stuff like that drunkard title. - Auron 10:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * lol xD thousand minutes, 17 hours, you talked for that time? - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 11:57, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol i didn't even know you created one. xD I used a quite similar one during the lucky-weekend.
 * Catography titles are even doable as noob without texmod if you have got enough patience. (I have to know it, i speak from my own experience ;P)
 * I can also understand if some ppl tend to use programs to be able pass these 10000 minutes afk, as this part of the title does indeed nothing show nothing but the patience to continually click with a specific timing. I didn't really try to get the drunkard title yet, though i possibly could have started sometimes already when talking for a longer period of time. &mdash;Zerpha[[Image:UserZerpha The Improver sig.png|talk]] The Improver 16:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * All those ranks are just as bad, too. The problem with Ursan is, it turns all of PvE into pure grinding, instead of only small parts which are easily ignored. --Xeeron 23:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * imo the problem is overall that you can now clearly seperate: running primary quests, missions and fighting primary quests. for the first, take an sf run build, for both other an ursan team. pve won. - Y0_ ich_halt  [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 08:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)