User talk:Lilondra/gamebalance/archive1

Will still change a lot i hope the beginning looks good numbers etc need to be changed will do all proffessions Lilondra 15:40, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

What I think so far

 * 2 second recharge on Bsurge would be too degenerate. I agree it should be 5 energy to make up for being elite, but it needs a downside.
 * AOE spikes should be 2 second casts at least.
 * Dragon's Stomp and Earthquake are too good to be 2 second casts.
 * Critical chop would be a wild blow interrupt, something warriros should not have.
 * Galrath Slash causing daze? You scare me.
 * The point of symbolic strike is to give it the possibility of doing +70 damage. If it capped at 40, people would run other attack skills instead.  Having 6 signets on your bar, symbolic, and another skill, capitalizes on SS's damage, which is what arenanet wants.
 * -40 armor on escape doesn't matter when you have 120 armor vs elements and can't be hit by physicals.
 * Divine healing, glimmer, and SoD are all great skills. SOD is a pre prot, not a heal.
 * Necromancer hexes are already powerful and buffing them in any way will only turn out badly.
 * Pious Fury needs to remove an enchantment when it begins. It's not a drawback, it's a combo skill.  There's already a dervish stance that removes an enchantment when it ends.
 * For the most part, your other suggested changes are either really good or really inventive, or both. You seem to be doing these without thinking about how they could be abused in gimmicks, which is IMO the first thing you should think about.  I think if the community members had a GW emulator, it would be much easier to see the effect of our suggestions.
 * Sorry if I sounded harsh, but that's how I do constructive criticism. ~Shard (talk) 22:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

No i have thought about abuse you might notice that when you saw mind burn or sf.As far as i know rangers have 100 armor against elemental damage ? So -40 armor would bring them down to 60 meaning elementalists can fire at them.If galrath causes daze it opens a window of opportunity to strike trough i know i have buffed alot but i intend also on buffing defensive options.Only i think defense should be brought down with utility not with OP scythe attacks.SF no more is aoe etc and critical chop was what I was afraid about.I wanted to change prot to something that saves melee spikes.Symbolic would be manageble because with only 3 signets you would reach a nice cap of +40 damage.Allowing you to pressure.Dragon stomp and earthquake are not good enough now so in my opinion they deserve a 2 second cast.However I'm still working on the list.Thx for youre opinion i will certainly change some skills.I also think we need an emulator where you can log in with youre old acc (to prevent abuse).Lilondra 07:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I have an emulator, but it's single player only XD. The searing flames nerf would stop spike abuse.  I guess 4 seconds of daze on galrath slash isn't too strong.  I personally like Symbolic Strike, I don't mind having a +70 damage attack skill by making the rest of my bar crap.
 * Dragon's stomp and Earthquake have limitations, yes, but they have a big effect. AoO damage plus aoe knockdown, something no other skill does. I've run GoE earthquake spammers which turned out pretty effective.  Like I said, they're limited, but fine as they are.
 * The general consensus about escape is that it should end on a melee attack, or even on any attack. It would have no place in PvP, other than ganking. RaO and Escape are overpowered because they provide a constant speed boost PLUS some other benefit for a long duration.  Warriors don't even have that, and they're called warriors. I personally believe the solution to those types of skills is to punish melee rangers, which your RaO does.
 * We will see what izzy does with the upcoming balance. ~Shard (talk) 07:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Can you send that emulator to me so i can test things with it ? I have 2 accounts so it would only be me using it and testing what it does. -40 armor is already a punishment and i might actually take it to -60 so if you go with melee you can but you will just be blown apart by an elementalist.Ive reduced the range of earthquake etc.I think i will work on monks soon.I rly rly want to see defense blown apart by UTILITY and SKILL (thats why you see so many effect on moving foe skills) instead of BROKEN SCYTHE ATTACKS THAT REQUIRE NO SKILL WHATSOEVER.
 * For technical reasons, I can't package the emulator yet. Sorry.
 * It doesn't use your existing account. It's not even technically an emulator as it doesn't use any of the GW.dat, it's more of a GW clone I wrote from scratch. It just uses the same game rules as GW. ~Shard (talk) 21:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

And can you assume i have an account and give it anyway :p ? btw added some balances still working on spirits tell me what ou think about the concept.Lilondra 06:22, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Uhh. Bad. You buffed a lot of skills that were nerfed for a reason, and your re-opening of them will create a lot of abuse. You over-powered Elementalists and Warriors by giving warriors easy Daze on fast charging non-elites. Almost every warrior will run Hammer Bash->Crushing Blow->Belly Smash with IAS. Overpowered Fire Magic and Air Magic attributes. Made skills do nothing like what they say. IE- What does Belly Smash have to do with Daze? <>208.117.81.202 01:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The fact you say that already shows you do not have this much experience.ATM gvg is 3 2 1 spike and daze is just rc or FF food nothing else.Ow so you are blinded because somebody hits you into the stomac ? Say what OP fire and air skills.and bring decent arguments Lilondra 04:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Your ritualist spirit changes look...interesting. Reminds me of auradins from diablo 2.  A lot of the spirit-requisite spells would need rework.
 * Also, hex overloading is broken enough. Hexes alone are hard to balance because they may or may not be removable.  I think cover hexes need to be addressed more than the actual hexes themselves. ~Shard (talk) 07:38, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I think decreasing the cast time of a hex will mke hexplay more intreresting while increasing the recharge of cover hexes and increasing the power of hex removal. Lilondra 12:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

My input
First of all, you jacked a lot of shit from me. Pls give credit, kk?

Second - I want that emulator, shard. Torrent it, rapidshit, nao.

Third: The skills I had problem with:


 * BSurge is just too win that way.
 * Invoke begs for Airspike.
 * Lsurge is much, much too powerful that way. I'd smash that on a warrior, just for the hell of it.
 * Mind burn is fucking awesome. Gving monks exhaustion? Better yet, giving warriors exhaustion? Might be workable, though.
 * Furious axe begs for abuse.
 * Triple chop is pointless, but is made of win in halls. Might be broken.
 * You jacked escape directly from me. I'm flattered.
 * Reaper's Mark begs for abuse. That, with Pbond, still broken curses.
 * Wounding strike nerf is not a nerf at all.
 * Stealing the burning idea for PA? I'm very flattered.
 * Reaper's sweep change is imba. That is fine as it is.
 * Raven blessing is made of win. I like that one.
 * TL;DRed at the Rt changes. I don't like the idea of reworking an entire mechanic, but maybe that's just me.

That's all. I need that emulator, shard.

Selfless self-promotion: User:NuclearVII/Skill_Balance_And_Revamps -- NUKLEAR   IIV  15:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Euhm mind burn gives max 10 exhaustion working on bsurge.Invoke might get changed to no aoe but i think you can spike with any skill elite or not then you'd rather change.And actually i have the intention to jack from you but yh i took some parts now you say.I just wanted them to be vonerable to eles. PA is youre idea i admit.WS is a nerf imo.Reapers mark had 5 recharge 8 should be doable as i intend on making covers weaker and hex removal stronger.Furious axe wel i have to check that again forgot. :p Lilondra 19:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Ow while moving imo thats great change might reduce adrenal gain though orbind it to strength.Ow btw no you mention giving war's exhaustion doesnt always work because of the shock thing.Bsurge and l thingie will get changed.and again i didnt take all those things from you but they proly just were in my mind because i already read your balance thingie.Anyway you get the point.Lilondra 19:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you think nuclear wants my emulator? He's pretty subtle about it. ~Shard (talk) [[Image:User_Shard_Sig_Icon.png]] 08:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

NOWAI :p can i have it XD ? Lilondra 11:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Well
I liek ur updates moar than other's tbh only thing tho...HOW THE HELL SHELL SHOCK GIVES WEAKNESS IF IT SHELL SHOCK???!!! >:( --Super  Igor  20:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Now how the hell can a monk survive being decapitated ? thx btw :) Lilondra 08:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ur welcome. warrior farmers and [SoT]'s IWAY will luuurve your 5 adren tripple chop btw. :) --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 10:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Thinking about rechanging that yeh Lilondra 12:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yea one sec rechrge like theyve done with whirling and steelfang is just fine so you wont have a constantly reloading aoe thingie. --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 12:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

No just give it a different function. Lilondra 16:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol hit three times in a row...wicked!! XD --Super  Igor  [[image:User Super Igor siggy.jpg|19px]] 16:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * :p Lilondra 16:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

most of it
is pretty random. and i care to explain.

u say both eles and warriors are ur favorite class, make up ur mind, also they both only get buffs, coincidence?

ride the lightning, its a pure air magic skill, and the name to it, and u want it moved to energy storage? i've never seen it abused by secondary eles at all. if this shit does not cause exhaustion i dont know what to say, im already able to kill 3 ppl in a row with it in ra, but of course, ra doesnt matter.

glyph of concentration, u want it to make 3 spells uninterruptable? while the drawback is nothing and pretty random? good work.

galrath slash, maybe the first skill i come to think of, daze is mostly for elite skills, it doesnt matter if the duration is low when that skill got an duplicate.

keen chop, now gives 1 adrenaline? what?

belly smash, u know how easy a hammer warrior can cause knockdown, u know how daze fucks a caster completly and how 8 sec recharge, non elite and 5 energy cost is completly overpowered?

most monk changes are pretty useless and doesnt make any sense except changing random numbers for fun.

defile defenses, i think its pretty balanced atm, the damage increase u add is pointless as 30...102...120 to 40..110...120 is just another way to change random numbers around.

keystone signet, is a badly designed skill that really doesnt need any buffs even if mantra of inscriptions have been nerfed.

pious assault, burning? why do u want it to cause burning?

spirits, is where u completly went wrong, why some sort of blessing that does some worthless aoe thing?

blessings, just needs to be removed but good try balancing them.

sincerly --Cursed Angel  17:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok Defile defense was changed to stop making it just a cover hex while increasing its power.Keen chop to make it free to use but youre right ill remove that.The list isnt finished and warriors dont rly need many nerfs they are one of the most balanced classes there are.I think daze shouldnt be so rare and it is +- to make shure they get a window of opportunity to strike without getting guardian.The belly smash daze might have been a bit to generous i admit.I think the monk changes do make sense i'm sry.I hate spirits because you cant move them and you can stack them thats why i changed them.RTL is quite meh atm as 60 AL in front = omfg KILL HIM. If you move it to energy storage it cant be abused by wariors etc and then it CAN be balanced.I think glyphs nerf was to hard.Pious was +- ripped off from nuke i admit that.Eles are not my favorite class at all they are 1 of my favourite.Warrior is my favorite by far and thats because they reward skill AND chop the crap out of people (I mean how cool is that XD).Will take notice of youre respond but dont think everything is random kthx ;) Lilondra 07:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Update
I updated some skills deleted some and added some (for example save yourselves).Discuss Lilondra 12:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

My take on Assassin/a few other random skills
Well... are you saying ditch the Lead-Offhand-Dual designations completely? If so, I'd actually say find that one part of the balance pages... someone had reworked everything, it looked amazing. However, it wasn't really doable. Other than that, it's interesting, and changing some skills to have similar effects while keeping others somewhat as is would be interesting. I was bothered by the idea that Glimmer should be on par with Word of Healing. I firmly believe that Word of Healing is too good right now, for it's recharge and energy cost, and that it has slowed down play in all areas aside from GvG and TA far too much, since those areas are ones where you often don't have an interrupter/disabler, or gimp yourself by bringing one (AB shrine capping, for instance). For dervs... I'd say recharge nerf for Wounding Strike. Deep Wound while moving seems like a bad idea, since you usually want to spike targets that are KDed, not running away, etc. And move chilling victory back to scythe mastery, while lowering the frost damage a bit. The +damage isn't that high compared to some other derv skills, it's the cold damage that puts it over the top. I'm not commenting on the other skills, because I tend to focus more on expansion professions and the culprits of stall wars. Oh, and I resent the "People like Assassins because they are easy to play" comment. Some of us play them for other reasons, and tend to be extremely tactical. As an example, the average sin would use shadow prison, jump in, spike, and die due to jumping into a group. A good sin, on the other hand, would probably be using shadowstepping far more tactically, and spiking targets he or she could take out without dying- or supporting the team by spiking a secondary target. Just my thoughts, and a request to stop stereotyping people.--Kalas Silvern 22:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Kalas dont tell me about assassins ok ? they have been my favorite class for over a year i started playing with factions (prophecies was no longer availeble in stores so i used to play sometimes on friendly acc till factions came out but w/e).The point is WoH isnt to strong and i strongly think other healing skills should be buffed towards it.Nuke was right when he said that better healing = faster games.And you dont always spike a knocked target actually.Lilondra 07:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless of course if you are spiking a monk? -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  13:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

you dont ALWAYS use knockdown to spike.You ALWAYS have more then 1 source of DW Lilondra 15:45, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You always use KD to spike, unless if you're running a gimmick. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  16:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

So you always KD a warrior to spike ? cuz i just 3 2 1 and it works fine 2 (even if we dont knock down but we mostly got one just in case (bull+shock)) Lilondra 19:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What I meant to say was you have to shut down monks in a spie, and since spiking monks is usually the casei you usually KD to spike. Of course, Diversion and shame can be considered other types of KD. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  09:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

YH i know but we do not always spike the monk (spiking frontlines or that anoying mesmer can work even better sometimes).Lilondra 09:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

NPA
"phailmaster" strikes me as a bit of a personal attack, and completely unnecessary.Cassie 14:50, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

check his posts at my page at nuklears page at my talk at nuklears talk and at his talk i'm not deleting that :p Lilondra 16:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

balancing
Updated a bit more updates will follow (maybey even major changes).Lilondra 06:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Bump Lilondra 07:30, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

MORE BUMP
srsly Lilondra 07:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

SF
Just curious, why the energy gain for Searing Flames? --  Wandering   Traveler  19:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

spammable pressure but maybey thats to noob friendly Lilondra 08:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Methinks it is. It seems pretty powerful even without the crazy energy gain. Maybe reduce it a bit? --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  18:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

mm i want it to have an effect otherwise to make it a versatile skill.But youre right when you say that right now it promotes gimmicky and skillless play.Lilondra 06:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * yeah. Just curious though, are you keeping the energy cost at 15? I didnt see any change in energy on the skill balence so I'm assuming its kept the same. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  06:27, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

update
reduced energy gain on searing flames.Tried a fix onn the shadowstep problem this way ganking is +- impawsible.Lilondra 06:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

SCREW GANKING
with the current state of the game its fked anyway no reason to.Overall its better then VoD so izzy for one time you havent fkd up at all :D Lilondra 13:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Update
updated will add some more updates somebody come and waste youre time here Lilondra 16:11, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

common
chop chop (the panda) give this page some love ! Lilondra 13:42, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
Didn't realize I made an awesome page : P --Kalas Silvern 05:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

you did :p Lilondra   *poke*  07:07, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Bsurge is broken
It needs to stay at 10 energy. -- NUKLEAR   IIV  17:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Attention :)
Gale : Actually I think this skill shouls just be a 3 second knockdown in the first place, but I guess this is okay. Just keep the rehcarge time like it already was.

Ward Against Melee : That'll work, but I'm not really a warder.

Blinding Surge : No, cause then anyone could use this for self defense and the game will go to hell. :)

Invoke Lightning : I like it all, except the remove the aoe effect part.

Windborne Speed : I agree! or it could be 3/4

Shell Shock : I don't see a good reason why, but you already got a spell under the same line that causes weakness.

Lightning Surge : No, this skill is already good as is, cause it has a powerful effect. But the recharge time does kill it.

Dragon's Stomp + Earthquake : Doesn't make much of a difference, but.. earth quakes should be big range in the first place.. I mean think about it :)

Magnetic Surge : It already does.

Double Dragon : This would so work, I like :)

Mind Burn : Well that kinda get's rid of the 'mind' mechanics.

Star Burst : I don't think elementalists should be able to cause bleeding, or cripples. o.o

Rust Rust : Well, if you're going to do that, increase the recharge a little.

Searing Flames : I guess that would work, but.. it's kinda weird. Lol.

Meteor : Yeah we need that.

Ride the Lightning : That'll work also. But why energy storage? It's an air type spell.

Stone Sheath : Actually 10 energy would be good for this kinda spell. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Halogod35 (talk).

OK let me answer to youre question : Bsurge ok its Op this way still thinking of another way to fix it.Lsurge : it isnt a powerfull effect if it was people would actually remove this hex.Dstomp : interrupts 2 seconds cast would be a huge buff same with meteor.STar burst basicly a finish off skill and a shoot ill kite away skill.Mind burn is just love that mechanic i dont care about the mind thing its proven that it doesnt work.Ppl barely use mind freeze and do not use mind burn.Mind shock is powerfull enough atm but there just are better options and mind blast is just FTW.SF is to stop abuse and RTL to e-storage is to prevent sins from going poof poof poof ;-).Also your'e right about stone seath i just hate the oeh lets give the ele costly skills cuz e storage =/= e management oeh wait a second. Lilondra  *poke*  18:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * you know that people will use Lsurge with even the slightest buff? Lower cast time, cost, trigger time... anything good you do to it will smash it into the meta. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  18:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And i dont want that because ? Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  18:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It'll be nerfed. xD Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 12:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It'll be broken. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it less broken now ? I want bsurge to be viable heck i want air line to be viable Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  15:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was talking about Lsurge. But I guess the same also goes for Bsurge. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  15:25, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nuclear i like Bsurge give me Bsurge ok ok lsurge might need a nerf but anyway what i wanted yo ask you is you like the GvG system or not ? Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  15:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Moar Attention :)
Critical Chop : Yeah, the concept of always resulting in critical is reasonable, but dunno about them being interupted, it would make this skill very powerful.

Hamstring : Eh, don't put this in the strength line.

Furious Axe : I kinda disagree, alot of npc's barely move, but how about that it gives you that much if it hits?

Triple Chop : Interesting concept :o

Belly Smash : Actually, blind does pretty well already, you should see my warrior take on 4 sins with earth shaker and belly smash. It's epic lol.

Forceful Blow: Forceful Blow needs a buff of any kind :)

Disarm : That's how it was before the update.

Warrior's Cunning : Eh, that beats the 60 second recharge and the 10 energy cost.

Galrath Slash: Lol I've seen this idea somewhere.

Hundred Blades : Lol Massive aoe bleeding? :) I like the 6 recharge though, it'll make it very powerful when you go the conjures and strength of honor. More DPS :)

"Fear Me!" : Yes, this needs this because people fearing a warrior is definitly a strength thing.

Shove: Agreed

Symbolic Strike : Yeah that would work cause most skills max damage are 40. (meele attacks)

Body Blow : Eh, at least it has some extra effect while being as strong as power attack. You'll never know when they use cracked armor

Victory is Mine : Yeah i guess that'll work. At least it's viable.

thx for youre comments i appreciate it :).Ok some explenation : Hamstring need to be warrior only or rangers would abuse it.The idea is that even with a cost of 5 energy warriors cant just wiee criplle wieee criple without spending there elite ;).Rangers however Would be able to do this wich would be imba.I agreed with Nuke on the body blow change because this is the reason cracked armor cant be applied by warrios :/ Lilondra   *poke*  13:22, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that Forceful blow should apply cracked armor with the weekness. :D I mean seriously, you're hitting them so hard it's breaking thier armor. Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 12:09, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

DW is a much more powerfull effect believe me its like a hammer eviscerate but take in account that hammers hit for more ;) and they have easier acces to knockdowns.Adding anything else would give issues similar to the WS issue ;) Lilondra   *poke*  17:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

updated bsurge
This way it is ready for most spikes but is not rly spam spam spam like it is with 3 recharge.I'd rather see it with 5 e then with a stupidly low recharge Lilondra   *poke*  13:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Raaaa
Escape : But what if you're a runner in pve and you need a sword that has good bonus (and a sheild)

Rampage as One : Still need a pet or not? Halogod35  18:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Use a spear ;) and yes Lilondra  [[Image:Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  15:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

updated again
^ Lilondra   *poke*  09:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Gale
It's rather minor, but given the recent buff to Master of Magic, would a drop to a req. 12 air magic be good on this? This skill would be seeing limited use, because even if you're not using MoM, jamming 12 ranks worth of attribute points for one skill is rather.....odd. --  Wandering   Traveler  14:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I think the idea is to run gale on air builds only rly but i might change it Lilondra   *poke*  15:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, seems fair. Just throwing that out there xD --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  15:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

changed to ele only :p Lilondra   *poke*  15:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that I like. keeps the poor MoM's from going crazy. :P --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  15:07, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * MoM is baed the energy regen doesnt make up for attunements and youre supposed to use youre secondary profession Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  15:52, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, I usually run a glowing spell (or shock arrow) to compensate for that. Granted, I can't use the 25 energy spells like a madman, but it does keep the energy bar high. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  16:10, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You actually want to get acces to the costy skills if you mom imo anyway like i said my opinion Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  16:24, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * True. Then again, I'm always the paranoid one about exhausion....I think I've used meteor shower twice. Thas it. >__< --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  03:18, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * i used to have the same problem till I discovered mind shock <3 Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  17:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Srsly? I always thought the mind spells were crap.... o_O --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  17:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry? Mindblast is a good spell, or not? ^^ | Cyan Light [[Image:User Cyan Light SB.jpg|19px]] Boooh!!! | 17:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, Mind blast is good. I was more thinking of Mind Burn, Mind Freeze, etc..... --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  17:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok ^^ yes, then I share your thoughts =) | Cyan Light [[Image:User Cyan Light SB.jpg|19px]]<font color="DarkOrange"> Boooh!!! | 17:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Mind burn sucks yes mind freeze is slightly bad but can be used and mind shock is just 1337.Mind blast is nf so yes its good Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *poke*  18:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hm. I'll have to base up a Mind Shock build then. ^^ --  Wandering   Traveler  22:41, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Mindshock/l-orb/L-bolt/optional/gole/glyph of elem powa/Elle attuné/ress Lilondra   *poke*  16:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, decent enough. Probably jam shock arrow in there for added e-management. --[[Image:User Wandering Traveler Oie User Wandering Traveler Sig2.png|19px]]  Wandering   Traveler  17:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

No need to also what about my balance :') Lilondra   *poke*  17:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Rawr
Divine Healing: That would be so handy for the divine/resilence build.

Withdraw Hexes : What ever brings this p.o.s. skill to play.

Glimmer of Light : If that heals more with 15 healing prayers and 13 divine then okay I'm fine with that.

Shield of Deflection : I guess that's okay. It's pretty good skill normally.

Shield of Regeneration : The casting time is what makes this skill my favorite. It can be cast before a spike happens.

Convert Hexes : Might beat the crap out of withdraw hexes, but this would be handy.

Divert Hexes : Hell yeah :D

Reverse Hex : WTB this change.

Smite Hex : Hmm, that would be useful, cause smiting prayers already sucks.

Deny Hexes : Nah, that would be more hex removal than remove hex.

Cure Hex : It already heals alot for a simple condition, I think this skill is fine.

Purge Signet : Hmm, sounds more viable.

Divine Boon : I'd pefer if it was just the same except with -1 energy loss.

Signet of Judgment : Hmm.. I have no opinion on this.

Shield of Judgement : I like that idea, 3 seconds is perfect, but make the 65% -> 75%

Halogod35  18:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

The thing is hex removal needs a buff,hexes need to be made more active so that the passive hexes remaining can easely be removed.I dont care if it heals for 1000 health hexway has always been a lame but very effective way of winning and imo it has to go. Lilondra  *poke*  10:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Divert Hexes and Melandru's Resilence ftw? Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 12:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Having a counter does not make a skill balanced. the thing is if you spend youre elite on hexes it should be fkn worthwile so I intend on buffing those skills.You know what faint or blurred does to youre non WS frontline ? Fucking screwed it should be more active and easy removable. Lilondra  *poke*  17:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

At least faint and blurred help a bit to keep damage from physicals down. That is why Prophecies was better balanced than what GW is now: physicals did more damage than casters but there were many more ways to stop physicals than casters. Now people need to run absurd amounts of skills to aid the defense, sometimes along with hexes to reduce physicals' effectiveness, just to keep monks from blowing up in 5 seconds. -=-Koda Kumi 22:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

hi,Well exactly what i was saying anyway any other comments :) ? Lilondra   *gale*  13:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you were not satisfied with em :P Your suggestion for faint looks cute but I think 3 seconds is a bit on the short side... at least you know what you are talking about! ^_^ -=-Koda Kumi 20:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually i think its on the edge of OP.You SNARE and DECREASE ATTACK SPEED at the same time! It renews if he does anything at all.In high lvl pvp it will stop spikes in low lvl pvp it will teach scrub to NOT keep attacking with faint on you. Lilondra  *gale*  17:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Double Divine Boon
Not that I'm reading your page (maybe I am) but you have two Divine Boon skills same goes for Blinding Surge. Is that a mistake or you have an intention?--ShadowFog 17:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Pve versions get buffed to compensate for the loss of pve-only skills Lilondra   *gale*  06:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Hexes
It seems you are making them more broken than they already were. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  14:27, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you be more specific? Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk
 * Yay back on my BDay lol anyway yh going to fix them a bit but they will have a shorter recharge + the major buff to hex removal so NO they arent more OP Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  19:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Welcome back, southern neighbour! -=-Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk
 * hehe thx Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  11:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

What hexes really need in my opinion is conditionality, lower duration and lower recharge time, aka activeness. I have worked out some of them on my balance page (which is far from completion), so if you think any of the changes I suggest are to your wishes you may add them to the list, if you credit me. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  16:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

wich is alreadt my idea (check faint for example) but youre forgetting something.If all hexes are active you can again stack them all on 1 foe and hex removal will AGAIN not be able to do anything about it.So you need Both of them if you got like 15 active thats enough increasing the recharge and sometimes cast time will already deal with it tbh Lilondra   *gale*  17:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why I add conditionalities to the skills. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  15:34, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * btw why so serious ? its not like izzy will read this or will listen to it neither will he ever understand gamebalance if he has to focus on GW II.Anet's actions have left it undesputed that they fucked up the best mmorpg on the market Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  15:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You have a point there, but I'm only decent/good at things when I'm serious ;P. I shall make laws for balancing GW so that no incompetent skill balancer fucks the game up again. If they read it, which I doubt. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  16:57, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Tease me, tease me!
Interesting suggestion. It is at least better than the craptastic version it is now, but I am wondering if Inspiration is the right place to put it. However, putting it in Domination is also quite dangerous. Tricky... Koda Kumi talk 23:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

In pve many pve-only skills should be replaced with buffed pve-only versions.Only tease requires you to spend youre elite slot ;) And it should be affected by armor Lilondra   *gale*  08:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

major update
spelling and skills have been updated.Almost finished necro.Will proly change to aar template soon.Next profession to get a rework will be assassin proly Lilondra   *gale*  21:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

bump Lilondra   *gale*  20:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Stone Sheath - of course crippling should be applied last *gets WS visions* :P Koda Kumi [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]] talk 00:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Stone sheath and shadow form are the 2 skill that will proly remain imba with this update.Ill tone shadowform down I guess and stone sheath actually needs a fittin function Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  08:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Let us be thankful for small blessings
Reflecting on your suggestions page serves only to instill in me a profound gratitude that none of your ideas will ever be effected.75.67.208.212 05:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

reason ... or is it just a OEWH MY SUPAH COMBO GETS NARFED AND SUCH NOEZ NOEZ YOUR IDEAZ ARE BAED RELLLY kid ? Lilondra  *Poke*  06:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * BTW you are completely wrong about shard and me.We DONT think the game is 1 epic failure.If we did we wouldnt be on this wiki and I would have uninstalled about 2 years ago.The thing is we think the game lost more of Its glory.While it used to be the nr1 mmorpg it now just is getting worse because Anet is neglecting balance. They got 1 of the best concepts ever made but they dont fucking use it.Instead they go hunt wow and co with GW II Thats frustrating.Now fuck off next time you post something like that I'll move it to idiotarchive.Back it up or dont post Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Disrupting Dagger.jpg|21x21px]] *Poke*  12:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow. You nostalgic piece of sad ignorance.

Number one? It was NEVER EVER EEEEEVER close to number one. It was AVERAGE at proph days. It's just nostalgia clouding your fucking eyes. Face it.

Not to mention that gw is PERAMENTLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY dead. FACE IT.

Oni doesn't like ignorance.<font color="Purple">Oni  17:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I dont like oni so it balances out :) . Also I still believe it had the potential to be nr1.Wether you believe it or not doesnt matter.I'm not saying it will take that place and I dont recall ever saying that Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Meh, talking to you just makes me dumber so I'll stay away from you.

Also, you shouldn't really debate on how good a game is when you clearly don't know its flaws. Balance is the least of the problems. Nub.<font color="Purple">Oni  19:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * talking to someone doesnt kill brain cells,Smoking does.Clearly you should stop smoking.Anyway I know but it would be a great game completely balanced Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  19:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Lol, xhata linked me to this post and insisted that I should comment back. So here goes:

How in ANY way am I dumber than you? Seriously, name me one. From what we've seen so far is: I'm better at spotting problems than you are, I'm better at solving them, I'm better in strategies (Chess) I'm more aware (own you as monk).

That's pretty much the only way so far we've been connected is through these things. So tell me ONE where you are better than me in. Seriously, get your facts straight you ignorant twat.

It wouldn't be a great game completely balanced.

Do you want me to tell you why? No? Well fuck you, I'm telling anyway.


 * Shitty story; I don't give a fuck about what you think about the prophecies cult thing, the story for guildwars is laughable. Nostalgia clouds your eyes. If not; try playing silent hill or morrowind and compare the story from here and in those games.


 * Combat; 7 diffrent skills to choose from in any ordinary build. Combat in guildwars is the following: Tab your way untill you find the target you want and use the skills correctly, That's not intense combat or anything. (It's diffrent for monking though.) If you still believe combat is awesome in this game, try devil may cry (perferably 3) and compare here and tell me the diffrence.


 * Economy; RiP gw economy.


 * Challange; Other than beating gimmicky builds in pvp, there isn't all that much challange to the game. (and you said yourself that gw pvp was dead, so conclusion: no challange) If you want to go all GW IS ZHALLANGING!11! Then I'll redirect you to devil may cry again and ask you to compare these two games in sheer ammount of difficulty. Or hell, any of the games I've suggested so far.

If you still insist on gw being a good game, bring up some facts. You might want to say THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION, AS LONG AS I THINK GW IS FUWN ITS A GOOD GAME. But no. It's a shitty game which is broken altogetha. If you find enjoyment from the game, great! Enjoy the game! But don't go around calling the game something that has the potential of being the best game ever, because ALL of these aspects I just brought up are unchangeable, and that's a fact.

Pretty damn sure that you'll just do a retarded response like usual which lasts for about one line and doesn't resolve anything, but just avoids the argument but whatever. You've already proven me how fucking stupid you are by saying that I'm dumber than you ;3.<font color="Purple">Oni  13:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * You want me to write a wall of text when your answering besides the point ? Potential is not like how it is now.Now you can say the same things 100 times over again but that won't make any diffrence really.BTW watch "lie to me" on internet.You'll like it as your the guy that always wants to be one step ahead of sombody ;) Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  13:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Read the first post. A simple "Uh huh..."[Your signature with timestamp] would have suffice, he's just venting. I dont think Oni is interested in a civil conversation. It just went downhill from the "...fuck off..." point.--ShadowFog 14:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * sush I love how Oni thinks I'll actually read trough his whole response.Or just gets really pissed off.Its somewhat humourous :) Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  14:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ow Oni I'll bring your arguments :

=> Based on opinion rly.I dont like factions story and I dont like Nightfall story but I do like prophecies.Face it there is no way you can actually prove its a bad story.If its inferior to another one fine but even that is based on opinion 90 % of the cases
 * Shitty story; I don't give a fuck about what you think about the prophecies cult thing, the story for guildwars is laughable. Nostalgia clouds your eyes. If not; try playing silent hill or morrowind and compare the story from here and in those games.
 * There are a couple of reasons why GW's story sucks. First of all, it's nothing new. Second, at one point you're fighting cats. Then you go supporting some cult, which you later leave because they are immoral. Then some lich lord offers his help. In the end, you end up fighting HIM. So you ofc think "orite, nao let's continue with the others". No. The story ends there. Lolrandom.


 * Combat; 7 diffrent skills to choose from in any ordinary build. Combat in guildwars is the following: Tab your way untill you find the target you want and use the skills correctly, That's not intense combat or anything. (It's diffrent for monking though.) If you still believe combat is awesome in this game, try devil may cry (perferably 3) and compare here and tell me the diffrence.

=> 8 skills ;) RES signet.If your saying that only few skills are usable that has to do with game balance.I dont see a game perfectly ok and balanced if half of the skills are dead.This is skill related. Lilondra   *panda*  14:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Res sig isn't a skill to choose from. It's a skill you always take, unless you're monking. You also said nothing about GW's gameplay not being about tactical play at all. Perhaps you shouldn't ignore points? <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  15:53, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

=> Realise how this is skill related aswell ? If things get overfarmed they drop its simple as that. Lilondra  *panda*  14:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Economy; RiP gw economy.
 * It's game related. Perhaps if it would be impossible to defeat a whole area with one or two characters because the skill usage of monsters isn't fixed as it is now, then MAYBE it could be fixed. Maybe the AI of the monsters shouldn't be utter crap and MAYBE that could make it somewhat less retarded. Yes, this is skill related but it's also a lot of other things that have influence on this. And even if it was only skill related, would that make this any better? <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  12:54, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

=>Gimmicky build is balance issue ;).
 * Challange; Other than beating gimmicky builds in pvp, there isn't all that much challange to the game. (and you said yourself that gw pvp was dead, so conclusion: no challange) If you want to go all GW IS ZHALLANGING!11! Then I'll redirect you to devil may cry again and ask you to compare these two games in sheer ammount of difficulty. Or hell, any of the games I've suggested so far.
 * Challenge isn't only a balance issue, PvE is boring and easy because the AI sucks. That's an AI issue. In PvP, people run these gimmicks because they are lamers. That's a player issue. It's more complex than it looks.

My opinion : Gw might be a game pretty easy to understand it still would be hard to be awesome at it if it were balanced.I was talking about potential not about how it is now.I'm sure you might find some working braincell in that emo head of yours that would state these things I just mentioned as a fact :). Lilondra  *panda*  14:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

-sigh-. Where you even HERE when proph days were here? (I'll get morphie to point out how retarded you were in all those comments you did, since apparently he is capable on explaining it on the slowest way possible so you can explain, so I'm not avoiding the argument)

Anyway, I'll get you proph info soon enough. Bit for bit every part of it to show you how mediocre and average it actually was. Potential to be number one? Don't kid me. Seriously, that's nostalgia written all over it.

I have to go for chess in 7 min so I'll update this later however:

I'll add on to this later.<font color="Purple">Oni  15:54, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Necros could NEVER EVER EVER play pvp
 * Any team without warriors in ra was pretty much /resignspike
 * A viable build at that time was 2 monks 1 runner rest warriors.
 * I'm talking about potential and tbh to me it was the nr 1 .I barely played back then (rly started playing at factions) but what I do know is that I dont like the concept of wow at all.so to me it was.You wanna show how retarded I rly am still you have trouble keeping your temper ? Drop the nostalgia argument pls you have used it like 100dreds times now and it doesnt change anything to its POTENTIAL. Lilondra [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I love how you tried to ridiculize anyone that was critic to you. Just look at what you said to mr anon, who was very right. Now that you're being ridiculized, do you like it? GW was never better than WoW because WoW actually had content being added to the game on a regular basis. Sure, GW has good points. But GW being nr 1? That's YOU exaggerating. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  12:48, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, if you constantly bring arguments up such as "wellz I liekd it" then it's obvious nostalgia is blinding you. We just point that out every time you point out you liked this game so much. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  12:54, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Lilondra:"..while it used to be the nr1 mmorpg.."In 2005 it won Game of The Year Award by IGN.com and won"Winner Academy of Interactive Arts & Science" there was recognition at that time. Lilondra:"...tbh to me it was the nr 1 .". I don't see any exaggeration. Lilondra already said it's an opinion. Nostalgia? Lilondra just like to see Oni mad.--ShadowFog 12:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Hay thar shadowfog, I'm oni and I feed on drama. And I've done so ever since I joined the wiki.<font color="Purple">Oni  14:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * DM,Stop trying to give more force to oni's opinion. Because you can't.IF your saying the IDEA of having a pvp based MMORPG does not make it in the top instantly.And about me being ridiculised.TBH I dont feel like it because you use the same arguments over and over again.
 * Oni why are you acting like a complete Idiot ? Is it that I'm one of the guys that actually says your not some uber guy ? Are you frustrated that most of the people still dont see you as superior but rather as childish? Because I can tell you if its your lack of attention you try to compensate here then do it somewhere else.I'm not the guy blinded here TBH.I'm open to other opinions you guys arent.If you state "your blinded by nostalgia" that doesnt instantly make it a fact mate.Face it that your opinion isnt always the right one and fucking open yourself to other opinions or you'll get as retarded as the pope.(Sadly that might not be a long way for you) Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  16:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you try to give force to your opinion by giving arguments please? It's really easy to say I can't when you can't back that comment up. About Oni's ego and me trying to support it, what :/. We are just better. That's it. We don't care about ego, we try to do what we do as best as possible. I'm not always right. I'm not saying this. I try to back up my statements with facts but once I see I'm wrong, I openly admit it. You haven't proven me wrong. Therefore, you can't say what you say. Also, explain what the pope has to do with this, that's so random :/. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  17:23, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Seriously DM read your own POSTS.Ill openly admit that oni is better at gw then me.But at most you mimic what he says and add some theorycrafting. Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just explaining what Oni thinks but doesn't say. We have discussions about those things. I show you the result of those discussions. Do you honestly think Oni doesn't know what he is talking about? Also, about this theorycrafting, I'm just recognizing previous wrongdoings in balance to your balances. Those include making a change that turns out to be breaking then nerfing it to the ground, nerfing aspects of skills that actually aren't broken and other things similar to these. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  17:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So your trying to be part of a discussion you barely know anything about ? Your the guy that makes sure oni doesnt forget anything?If you want oni to like you just kiss his ass pls it will save me a lot of trouble.Oni says something out of his own experiences most of the time.You don't you say what oni said to you and theorycraft about it.Think why its right and then say what you think you have to say.Stop wasting my time DM Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I'm the one cooperating with Oni, using my knowledge of maths and this game to prove you wrong and, in the end, make a good balance myself. You are just changing my words to something I never said. I probably know more about the game than you. I can give you every single skill description by heart. You are the one wasting both of our time by not listening properly to what I say and by being so damn ignorant. Yeah, you can't make any argument backed up by facts. I can. The only thing you can do is insult me by saying things that aren't even proven to be true. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  16:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I find it very amusing that you claim that I'm narrow minded, retarded, attentionwhore and have something against you just because I'm telling you that this balance is bad.

Did you ever concider the fact that you are simply wrong? That your balance really isn't good at all?

I'm far better than you in gw, which you even admit. I give fair arguments to why most of your skills are bad and why your change wouldnt make any diffrence (swap one broken meta for another). You should know that it takes time and effort in making a huge update. The update you want wont do anything else than leave the game in the same way as it is (or even more broken) for all that time. Thus, making the effort and balance entierly pointless.

With all these points, you'd think that you would just face facts that you might not be right. But no, there must be something wrong psychologically with me. Or hell, I need to have a grudge against you! ANYTHING. ANYTHING but you being wrong, right? Seriously, who is the narrow minded one?

By the way, for one last thing: I don't have a grudge at all against you. I troll your balance page for amusement and because your ignorance is annoying. You were the one who blocked me. I still have you on msn. The one with the grudge iiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.........y00. <font color="Purple">Oni  17:54, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I havent been on msn lately because vista is a piece of shit.Besides the fact that I dont like your face you can't really have a decent conversation so I dont care.I never stated that my balances was superior to all balances.I only stated that it isnt finished and that is'nt as bad as you say.If you point out a small lack it suddenly becomes a big lack.If you point out a big lack well things start to explode.Meta will always exist untill GW is completely balanced.If this update would completely balance gw I would have stopped working on it.I'm sure your mother is proud of you for being better at chess and gw wich totally is my complete life like you once tried to say.And there is something psycho with you if the only reason you play chess is to "mentaly torture someone".I dont hold grudge.And you can take that like I say it I dont do it EVER. Lilondra [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  18:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I lold HARD when I saw you writing about that mental control. You do know that I'm srs like 10% of the time of me talking? also, read. broken meta. Not just meta. Broken. Since you just admitted throughly that I'm better than you in gw listen to this:


 * Your balance is FUCKING AWFUL.


 * It wouldn't FIX A DAMN


 * The meta in your balance is more broken than current gw.

You can't just say no to this. I friggn know. Stop being so narrow minded. I'm not intrested in what personal insults you have to say.

Seriously, do you know what you are doing right now? You are flat out acting like a pvx-whiner who posted a fucking aweful terrible ra build which nobody likes and this is how you react.

I'm skilled enough to become a proffesional in chess. And yeah, concidering my age. My mother is pretty damn proud. Thanks, I guess.

Done with the pathethic attempt to personally insult me? Thanks.

Lets set up a scenario which even you should understand: Imagine me telling you about this new opening I've started using (in chess). The opening is that bs opening which attempts to win the game in 4 moves. Now; imagine you being at your current level, you KNOW that that opening is fucking terrible. So you tell me that it is and explain why (developing queen at start at such a point where it's easily attacked is a bad thing, not to mention that everyone sees through the mate attempt).

Once you tell me this, I start raging, calling you emo whore, narrow minded like the pope, idiotic and pothead. Totally ignoring any fact you say, saying that it might not be the best opening but it sure as hell is a decent one. And if I work on it enough it'll be perfect soon.

This is our exakt fucking scenario. And the skill level between us is pretty much to that extent about gw. I've told morphie about all of this which is why he is trying to counter argue out of it. But seriously, give it fucking up. If someone who is far far far better at you in something tells you that you are doing it wrong, then you are prolly doing it wrong. Don't go all fucking paranoid and tell me that I'm against you because of that.

To sum it all up: If you want to make a balance, go ahead and fix mechanics overally for every single attribute first, then proceed to alter the broken skills mechanics, fix underused spells to a better mechanic and in the end finally fixing numbers.

You're doing it wrong. Face it. Stop being a fucking whiny pissant and move on.<font color="Purple">Oni  18:24, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Exept the situation is not near as simple as that dame mate you explained.And exept you started trolling and insulting first wich isnt in that dame thing either ? Also I didnt call you an emo whorebitchslutblablabla for being worse at chess ?

It isnt ready and if you looked at it you'd see I'm trying to do a lot at once.Your saying you arent serious 90 % of the time yet you kept on being obsessed with that thing yet your making such a big deal of my balance.
 * I wont doubt your talent for chess what I'm saying is that you make such a big deal of everything really.Your trying to say your better then me at every single point and then wonder why I wouldnt accept that (even if it were true).
 * Use those braincells and stop posting you dont gain anything from it and neither do I Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  18:29, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

No, once I got this far I can't be arsed to leave it at that. I don't give a fuck how ignorant you are. Imma make you understand how fucking stupid you are right now.

The situation IS that simple. I know the way you are balancing; Its wrong. You've done wrong so far. Everything is wrong. This balance is pointless.

I might have said this in rougher words but this is how it is if you sum it up. I don't give a fuck about your balance. But I hate ignorance above anything else. And I didn't tell you that I was better than you in every single point so far in life, I said that I was better than you in every single point we had so far communicated about. (which is chess and gw, so if you call me stupid based on those things you're just spouting non-logical pathethic personal attacks, which you did.). Why wouldn't you accept that? Or did you misread? If so, that's your fault for being ignorant.

I don't earn anything per sey except for a good laugh or two, laughing how you desperatly try to defend this. I started with a troll attitude, not trolling in general. I still pointed out the bad things about it. You called me a emo, pothead (smoking is bad for brain, remember) idiotic ect. Just because I pointed out how bad it was. My attitude was bad, yes. But your balance is nevetheless terrible. And you have cried like a fucking whiny pissant during this entire time, clinging to this balance like it would actually happen.

Don't be ignorant, you've already proven how stupid you can be. Just quit it now instead of making a further joke of yourself, you fucking cunt ;><font color="Purple">Oni  18:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

So why is this balance bad?
Your changes don't fix hexes. Your changes don't make Assassins less gimmicky, just weaker. Your changes do nothing to fix Spirits whatsoever. Turret Rangers still are a problem. You have done nothing to fix paragons. Honestly, your changes don't change anything to the better. Wanna know why? That's because you have no plan. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  13:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Did I say I already fixed hexes ? no.I DID make assassins less gimicky.They can nolonger instakill and I added utility to deadly arts and buffed shadow arts.IF you dont see that your blinded by oni's ego.Turret rangers are a problem yh but I didnt focus on them YET.Also Have you even seen the paragon changes ? Do you rly believe I actually invested lots of time there ? That that is complete.FYI no page is 100 % COMPLETE.What you tried to do is sum up the same points as the last 15 times and still get the same result.I'm still changing things.IF my balance were completely finished and those things still were a problem you were right so its not so drop the "god I'm so much better then you" thing Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  16:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but your changes don't fix hexes in the slightest. Actually, tbh, they make them worse. Assassins can't instakill? So what changed that makes it impossible now? 2 second disable on dual attacks? Yeah, that stops some builds. But others merely get slowed down like 1 second. Their spikes were easy to catch anyway, so how does this change that at all? Palm Strike fix? Yeah, it stops those lame builds, but there are always other options. People will find a way around this. And they won't find it hard at all. Utility in Deadly Arts? What, Entangling is no more ranged. You call that utility? That's reduced utility. Enduring can now inflict cripple. Whoop de doo. And the worst thing is, there are so much better options to do the same thing. Expunge Enchantments now is an extremely efficient enchantment removal for assassins. Good job, you just made assassins more spikey. Or should I say necromancers? It's obvious they will abuse it. Shadow arts got a buff, I can't deny that. They now have very balanced skills that increase assassin mobility at no cost greatly. That's so balanced. You have made changes to rangers. Obviously, you nerfed totally besides the point. You actually gave them a godmode skill. I don't care whether your changes are ready or not. The ones that you made were gamebreaking. Look at my old skill balances. They lacked a plan, but they didn't fuck over the game even more than it already was. So yeah, I'm better than you. The way you tried to change skills I said were overpowered or underpowered were laughable. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  17:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Awh does does captain obvious have a feeling of superiority ? TBH your balance was nowhere near good aswell.And I'll make you a prediction you wont succeed in making GW completely balanced ? Why ? Because besides the point that its extremely hard YOU CANT TEST THINGS.IF you have 500 skills that are individually balanced you can still have 3000 builds that are OP Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But was there any gamebreakingly stupid suggestion on my page? No? Rightya. I try to give professions a role which they will fulfill. Obviously, I can't get the numbers right on first try. That's why I don't plan to add them. Whilst your suggestions are broken and impossible to balance, mine are doable. Also, tbh, you didn't even try to counter any of my arguments. That's because you can't. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  17:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No thats because you barely buffed some UP things.Also cripple is not a role necromancers have atm ;) so that point falls away and with it comes that you only balanced necro's as far as I've seen.Its the class you play the most.Now I'm not stating that you need to play a profession to understand it but it helps getting to know whats possible for a prof.I'm not saying my warrior balance is perfect it is far from perfect but its a lot better then my necro one.Now you mentioned the suggestions that are broken.There were about 3 left from wich I seriously doubt Wither.IF all you want to do is try to get a verification tht your superior blablabla nazi shit blablabla then pls leave you wont get it Lilondra  [[Image:Miniature_Panda.png|21x21px]] *panda*  17:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't add anything broken to the game. You added a lot of these things. Face the facts. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  16:28, 20 March 2009 (UTC)