Talk:Game updates/20091029

Heroes will no longer be available in pvp
About time. Win update is win. --BlueNovember 00:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * and replaced by imba henchmen. Yay? Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  00:49, 30 October 2009  (UTC)
 * ^Beat me to it D:-- Unen ding  fear  User Unendingfear Gw2flyingmountsiglol.png 00:49, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh crap. Some of them look awesome. Gogo stacks of armbraces for the tonics :/ Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  00:50, 30 October 2009  (UTC)
 * About damn time they did this. Shadow Shadow_Runner_sig_1.jpg  Runner  00:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How can universally available henchmen be imba? | 72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg {U|T|C} 00:58, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Give it a week and you'll see. Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  00:58, 30 October 2009  (UTC)
 * I like how talking to em shows you their skills o.0 Shadow Shadow_Runner_sig_1.jpg  Runner  01:00, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They are imba because they have the same skills that the imba heroes had. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * just wait untill next month when we get the nerfs to there bars ftlol- [[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 01:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * its kinda stupid to remove heros from pvp and replacing them w/ henchies. Guild Wars is supposed to be a "customizable game" stated in the maunscript.EDIT forgot to sign =P--Ultima Flames User Ultima Flames Signature.jpg 01:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * you seem to forget the PVP part of what your saying. PLAYER VS PLAYER.- [[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 01:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Ultima pretty much just said that? -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "you seem to forget the PVP part of what your saying. PLAYER VS PLAYER." FYI.. Henchmen aren't Players... << 76.6.79.104 01:57, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Wellp, no more hero battles against guildies. Awesome. 216.8.175.91 04:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * henchmen are there to fill the spots for missing players Infested Hydralisk  15:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Why the hell
are they all spread around the outpost? -- adrin  00:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Because having them close together would be gay. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00 00:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * seriously.134.109.89.1 00:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll be gay then? Previously Unsigned 00:56, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Lol, the name Hinata isn't copyrighted is it? (surely not) <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">00:53, 30 October 2009  (UTC)
 * You can't copyright existing names. Even japanese ones. Backsword 01:01, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) No; it's a _name_. ^_^ --BlueNovember 01:02, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, this disgustingly stupid looking horror piece of utter spread crap just made me delete my guild hall. Guess, it's time to move back again to Zaishen menagerie outpost. It is named Guild Hall for a reason and not warren. =/ <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  01:26, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * people dont use the party search thing to get henchmen in there party? wut?- [[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 01:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

This is so retarded. I use the guild hall to work on skill sets and armor for my NPC's and heroes. Not everyone plays PVP. If they want heroes banned from battles than don't allow someone to enter a battle with heroes. All this does is make it worthless for PVE players to bother with Guild Wars. As if the recent consistant lag wasn't bad enough. This is not the way to make people wanna buy guild wars 2. Not when I think I've wasted all the money i've spent so far on the first one. This is a complete downgrade on what was once an awesome game. I used to tell people all the time how awesome the game was, not anymore. Overall, bad move. Some updates usually suck a little, like when a skill is changed but oh well, we move on and use a little more smarts and build new skill sets. This change is too far over the wall. There is only one person in my guild who actually plays PVP and he is only a level 14 right now, and the only reason he tries is to see if he can beat any of us. We are a PVE guild, why should we get screwed over because SOME people, NOT ALL, like to PVP.
 * Back to original idea.. I wish they were set up like EotN henchmen instead (the small groups of them that interact with one another). All though, crates of fireworks will show up better now. 76.6.79.104 02:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * True, they being spread all around is different, but if they could interact like EotN would be nice.. Have to agree with the above, my guild mates and alliance members like to be able to work and configure our heroes in our halls, so perhaps, maybe just locking them (heroes) from GvG instead..  Having a large selection of henchies for pvp and H/A is nice, but nicer with H/H MystiLefemEle 06:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * @Noctarch: lol. i guess we will meet each other in the Zaishen Menagerie more often now ;) R.I.P. PvE-Guild Hall.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 14:02, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Goodbye Tease
Srsly. NicanTlaca 00:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree this blows   I like setting up teams for PVE w/heros in GH before we head out but with this update I am not allowed to anymore....  I also agree that they should have just made it a message that you are about to loose heros in a message screen....
 * Oh man, I just noticed. It was bad enough being forced to use pvp versions of skills when setting up. <font color="#008800">Manifold 01:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * One more very angry player here. I guess this is the solution to the idea of changing a Guild Hall's PvP zone status, just make it PvP-only. Gee, here I was thinking Guild Halls were for everyone, my mistake. Do they really have to do this? I want a refund on all the upgrades I helped pay for in my guild hall, since, as a PvE player, I seem to be told I have to take it outside. Xiaquin Crystal_Snowflake.png 02:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

WTF is Squeakers
Ummm, what did I miss? Oh, wait, on second thought, nvm. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00 00:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No. idea. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">01:06, 30 October 2009  (UTC)
 * RaO henchy's pet. ~ [[Image:Signet of Devotion.jpg|WELL HELLO|19px]] Chao  01:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ohhhhh. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">01:10, 30 October 2009  (UTC)

Henchy armor
Some of what the new henchies are wearing I recognize from other NPCs, some I don't. Bellicus and Kah Xan for example, are wearing things I don't recall seeing anywhere else. Could it be new art? Or perhaps someone else can link me to where it exists already. <font color="#008800">Manifold 01:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Some of the armors look nice, I would imagine they were assets created but never implemented. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  01:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Bellicus is wearing the armor that Verata worshippers use, Kah Xan is an assassin from Togo's BMP. The rest are assorted generit NPC skins, a bandit, and a guild emblemer. ~ [[Image:Signet of Devotion.jpg|WELL HELLO|19px]] Chao  01:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I recognize most skins, but some do look unique... -- Konig/ talk 01:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you Chao. I suppose the wiki pages will be filled out soon with these details. <font color="#008800">Manifold 01:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya I agree... but some of these skins, like Vincent Even and the necros look sick! Please tell me that simular armors will be added to the game for players... please! - SabreWolf 02:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Any skins other than what they had previously is a nice suprise MystiLefemEle 06:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And they have EL tonic forms! Lol Kah Xan Form gotta be rly cool. Lápi 11:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Balance Between PvE & PvP
I'm fine with not being able to use heroes in PvP but not being aloud to set up heroes in the guild hall is retarded. The GH's originally purpose was to give a guild a place to meet, chat, hangout, form parties, etc and heroes are apart of a party. I usually spent 1/3 of my time in my GH and I'm probably 90% into PvE. Most of the time while I'm there I'm creating some kind of build on a hero either for that heroes or another one of my characters. So please revert the patch to be able to add heroes to the party and if you try to enter a PvP match pop up a message that says you can't enter until the heroes are removed.. 76.6.79.104 01:43, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just do it in a PvE outpost? Lots of people seem too lazy to just map to an outpost and gear up. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:44, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Or do it in the gh?  Lord Caeliat  User Lord Caeliat sig.JPG 01:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, most outposts either don't have a full set of traders, a xunlai storage, and a weaponsmith all within radar of each other, or are full of screaming idiots. Lrn2compassion. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 01:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * plus with alliances it's alot easier to port to a gh than to Lion's Arch -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 01:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just seems like a lot for a little, to me. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

We need 2 modes for the Guild Hall. One PvP and one PvE, like the Nameless Island has. That way we could see our PvE bar and set up our heroes in peace!

Some people have made the hollow comment to go to a PVE outpost to set up heroes. The whole point of using the guild hall is that everything you need is there, assuming you have a guild hall. Whether is the dye trader, rune trader, skills guy, merchant, rare crafting materials, crafting materials, etc. The point of having a guild hall is to make it easier to build armors and skill sets. I hope they fix this soon. Or I'll just delete the game from my computer and tell everyone I know not to bother buying this game, or Guild Wars 2. I really don't care how many henchman are in the hall. I just wanna be able to work on my heroes.

And if PVP people wanna have the guild halls set up like they are, let the guild leaders decide how the hall will be set up. Afterall, they are leaders for a reason.


 * What they all said. +1. I set up my heros, look at and setup builds in GH, where storage is easy, I sort through runes I salvaged with a rune trader nearby to check prices, and a merch to sell stuff.  Guild hall is convenient, and I don't have to turn on/off trade/local chat to hear myself think (or whomever I'm messaging) 71.146.81.17 02:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I definitely think a PvP/PvE version of the halls is a good thing - doesn't even have to be a toggle by the GL or officers, just like 2 districts of the hall. Also, the PvE version, however its implemented, should not have the new Henchmen, I can't stand seeing them around the hall. Joiry 05:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above +2 As some outposts lack all the traders, plus extra LAG and the children all yelling at the new people, makes the halls all the more inviting MystiLefemEle 06:29, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Heroes Kicked Out of Guild Halls
Who's grand idea was this? Tho there are a lot of PvP players some of us like me and my wife enjoy the co-op PvE game instead. We use are Guild Hall for preparing our heroes for the upcoming adventuring. To all of a sudden eliminate the ability of what you're able to do in your own guild hall just to favor the PvP players is bogus! To cater to the whim of one type of player at the expense of another is totally WRONG! --SirOnyx 02:15, 30 October 2009 (UTC) regarding PvE/PvP. <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  02:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree they could have just done a "You cannot enter gvg with heroes" message for gvgers pressing enter, but allow heroes in the party anyway. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:17, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to GW, if the game was being balanced for both PvP and PvE, Shadow Form wouldn't exist. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 02:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * He was talking about not being able to add heroes at all. His comments had nothing to do with heroes in pvp. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, I was responding to the last part, about catering to one type of player. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 02:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * stil bares sense as Shadow Form doesn't "cater to the whim of one type of player at the expense of another"
 * I didn't say the skill itself does, I said the lack of it's balance does, meaning that the focus of skill "balance" in GW is on PvP, catering only to PvPers. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]]

It's nice to know there are other husband/wife teams playing Guild Wars. - Vik 02:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, would play with my wife but she doesn't seem to enjoy gaming much. But ya, high ftw!  (heroes in guild halls)...  Seriously, whats the point of a GH anymore?  time to disband and form an outpost, since the guild hall won't work anymore. Hi, will you join my outpost?  OUTPOST RECRUITING, OVER 40 PLAYERS IN ONE DISTRICT | JOIN NOW!!!  [[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png|15px]]<font face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  03:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What's this about an outpost recruiting? Can my wife and I bring our heroes? We used to use our guild hall as a base of operations, but now our friends Ogden and Vekk aren't allowed in. Too much fighting, I guess. --RoyHarmon 03:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * .:O Discrimination against non-human allies. Btw.. WTB PvP only minipets... << 76.6.79.104 03:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * lol@outpost recruiting -  Vik 03:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've figured it out. For PvE uses, the guild hall is now good only for perma sins.  The conspiracy is real, Assassins ARE programming your game!  New outpost forming, The Conspiracy of [Sins] [[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png|15px]]<font face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  04:36, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree that GW has favored PVP and it is not fair to the ones that want to HH missions and quests, and then add the major lagg issue why play anymore  new update gets a thumbs down review!24.131.29.219 04:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

What most people dont realise is that Guild Wars was originally based around PvP with PvE added as a second option for players but as the years have gone on alot of players prefer PvE more to PvP, while i think we should be allowed to still add our heroes to our party in the Guild Hall it might have also caused some issues with which they wasnt able to fix, as alot of people know, once a bug has been found especially one that gives advantage alot of players try to exploit it, if there was a bug in which teams doing GvG managed to use a hero in their team, im pretty pretty sure alot of people would try to exploit it or even "fix" the monthly tournaments (not sure if GvG tournaments was ever "fixed") untill it was sorted so that players couldnt use heroes in the matches. i do agree that there should be some way of stopping players from using heroes in the matches but at the same time i know alot of people who used to use their guild hall with their friends for making and testing hero builds for using in PvE and that is an option in which alot of players are angry about. Thats my view on the whole thing anyway. Simzy '' 05:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And if there's a bug, fix the bug! I'm sure if some team faces off against a team with heros in it, they'll be sure to let *someone* know (gwguru forum complaint, feedback pages, staff talk pages, feedback pages, bugs, etc) 71.146.81.17 05:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You make it seem like its easy to fix a bug, well i can tell you its not,first you have to identify where exactly the bug is by examining the code, then you have to rewrite the code to try and remove the bug which could take days to do, then you have to make sure that the bug is gone and that no more have appeared because if they have then you have to repeat the process, im sorry but its just not that simple. Simzy '' User Truesimzy mysig.jpg 05:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As a programmer by training and a systems programmer and sysadmin by trade, I'm well aware of the debugging process. Are you under the impression that the current no-heros-in-guildhall solution is less likely to have exploitable bugs than a check-if-heros-in-party solution for some reason?  71.146.81.17 07:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I am also a programmer, and the game wasn't entirely meant for PvP when it was created. hence the storyline and all that.  The game originally got high reviews for its PvP because it was new and different, and not so high reviews for its PvE cause you could go play wow.  also...  if(!(group.contains(heroes))){display("The button");}else display("Lose the heroes to play!");  not too hard.  Just find the right spot, get it aligned, and makes sure its the only spot...  [[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png|15px]]<font face="Bradley Hand ITC">Kyle van der Meer  07:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The founders of Anet and the designers of the game disagree with you. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * the endgame for guild wars used to be pvp, now the endgame is ending your account -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 07:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's shooting yourself in the head after trying to play in CA.--Underwood 07:43, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, 71, Anet has a QA team. Saying "This way is likely to have a few less bugs" isn't a good excuse to do something sloppily. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 07:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well aware of the QA team's existence. Please re-read my comments, as that is definitely not what was being said or implied. 71.146.81.17 08:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As Shard mentioned above, some kind of message that you cannot enter battles with heroes in your team, but still being able to put them your group would have served me much better. All my chars are sitting in the GH so now i have to move them out in some outpost to mess around with my heroes skill bars. Kind of annoying. Can't even get my weapon sets i borrowed my heroes. Some of them i used as additional storage space for weapons which i cannot reach now without travelling. I guess since i barely play PvP, i will abbandon my GH now because it causes more trouble for me now than being helpful. This update screws PvE-players. I hope they gonna fix it in some way.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 12:53, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Addition: Kinda makes me regret i spent so much money on my GH...because actually i cannot use it for anything now. No equipping heroes in quiet piece, storage managment (because my heroes are a part of that), no building teams with guild members and heroes to travel to some outpost. This update destroyes my GH for PvE. Meh!   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 13:15, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Bring back joy for PVE only guilds...most annoying update from my 4,5 years of play. Is there a petition i can sign somewhere? Didis 13:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I never ever read the updates, but today when i saw I couldn't check out my heroes in the guild hall- this is ridiculous.. I use the guild hall for everything. I agree with everyone, this just makes it useless to even have a guild hall, i might as well find the non-laggiest outpost now and just hang out there, I mean why bother spending all that gold on a guild hall when it's set up for PvP players now. Forget that. Usually when people shout about the updates, I always figured Anet had their complaints but i mean.. heroes banned from the guild hall?? THAT was their solution?? SERIOUSLY??? They couldn't just send them a message saying no heroes allowed.. they HAD to make it so you can't have heroes in the guild hall..--74.140.110.92 17:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I never ever read the updates, but today when i saw I couldn't check out my heroes in the guild hall- this is ridiculous.. I use the guild hall for everything. I agree with everyone, this just makes it useless to even have a guild hall, i might as well find the non-laggiest outpost now and just hang out there, I mean why bother spending all that gold on a guild hall when it's set up for PvP players now. Forget that. Usually when people shout about the updates, I always figured Anet had their complaints but i mean.. heroes banned from the guild hall?? THAT was their solution?? SERIOUSLY??? They couldn't just send them a message saying no heroes allowed.. they HAD to make it so you can't have heroes in the guild hall..--74.140.110.92 17:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Thats from the GuildWars Twitter, so how about everyone stops complaining, if it can be done it will be done. Simzy '' 17:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I will stop complaining when it's done, until then, i am sorry, no, i will continue.   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 18:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * We have seen a lot of empty talk from Regina in Developer Updates. Until something happens, complaining time! Also why would we need heroes for PvE? We still have Alesia. Also I heard that Mhenlo does the trick in hell's precipice. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 23:01, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Ugh. The programmer is optimistic??? This should have been heard in an internal meeting before this update was even pushed out. In fact, this update should never have gone live. This update just proves there is no hope for GW, GW2, and Anet. I mean, they can't even figure out that a change like this is going to tick off a large portion of their player base? They basically just told every PvE player not to bother with GW2 because they just proved that PvE is nothing but an afterthought. Granted, that's not very surprising, but still, this was a major PR blunder on their part -- I mean, they're supposed to pretend they care instead of in-effect accidentally blurting it out. Maybe they were hoping to reduce the server load by driving more players away.... 69.179.146.147 08:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Well...Suggestions Anybody?
I understand that a lot of people don't like this, because this would require you playing with people that have some weird builds such as Mo/N Minion Masters but any ideas for some changes? On the 10/22 update I suggested, if you just got rid of a single quest (called Hero Battles), you wouldn't have to get rid of a title that gives 5k Balth Fact. ea. level but...that's too hard I guess? Anybody else have other thoughts on this? Than 06:11, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In what way are you required to play with people like that? I don't get what you're trying to advocate. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 06:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess he was referring to CA, and even so, I am sure he is perfectly capable of making sure people don't "have some weird builds such as Mo/N Minion Masters", after all, you get to choose who you play with. The whole post seems silly to me. Pika Fan 07:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Strangest referencing ever
Talking to all of the new henchmen shows us a new and very subtle reference to guilty gear and blazblue. Namely, each of them has a a line which is identical to one of the songs in their respective soundtracks.


 * "Haven't you got eyes in your head?" -Slayer's theme
 * "Good manners and customs" -Zappa's Theme
 * "Keep the flag flying" -Order Sol's theme
 * "Rebellion" -Ragna's theme.

and loads more, one for each hench I've talked to (give or take). Strangest reference ever. -- Ckal Ktak  08:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That is a strange reference. I wonder if anet devs play guilty gear. That would explain why GW has one hit kill spells. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 09:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I suspected this ever since Ride the Lightning was introduced. But at least that's just a one off, and could be referencing other things. -- Ckal Ktak [[image:Minion control panel.jpg|20px]] 09:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't know about that, but I love the assasin saying that she chose the Zaishen Order instead of farming the UW. Stealing from the god of Death sure costs a price, and it's deemed to be very high. You gotta admit, they have a sense of humor. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 14:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pretty undeniable, one of them (Redemptor Frohs) even has 4 references in a single short paragraph:
 * "When you're locked in a fatal duel with an enemy, it's important to keep your cool. Between the blood and the pain, you have to find a place in your mind where you can calm your passion. Once you've reached that, the rest of the battle will fall into place. My skills? Well, they're nothing out of the ordinary:"

The middle two are references to "Blood Pain" and "Calm Passion" and the first and last are song titles verbatim, look them up yourself if you like. And that's just Henchman -- Ckal Ktak  14:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Attributes?
Do we know anything about new Henchmen's attributes? Lápibácsi 11:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * look at the pvxwiki builds, there are the attributes, since all the builds come from there =/ <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  15:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Please let us add heroes in Guild Halls for PvE Staging and Theory-testing with Scrimmages
I have no problem with disallowing heroes in PvP. But it's shortsighted to restrict us from adding them to team in Guild Halls. All my friends and I use our halls as staging areas. Having all the NPC's handy makes checking and outfitting heroes quite convenient in the guild hall. Gathering friends together for PvE excursions is most easily done in Guild Halls, and it's nice to be able to put heroes on the empty slots while we're all there and planning our approach. I find it hard to believe that my friends and I are in a minority - the guild halls are used by many PvE players like this. Please change it to restrict actual GvG battles from using heroes, but let us add heroes to the party in the guild hall again. Also, please let us continue to scrimmage with heroes, as that comes in quite handy now and then when testing theories with the help of a friend or two. Thanks. LicensedLuny 01:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What you have to ask yourself is, how hard is this to implement? Also, shouldn't this be on a feedback page someplace? -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, actually, no I don't see this as me needing to ask myself how hard it is to implement - this is a new changed they've just added that breaks a few important aspects of the game for me. It's not like I'm asking for a new feature - I'm asking for the functionality I had 5 hrs. ago to be returned.  And if it belongs on a feedpack page, my apologies!  I'm not good at wiki organization beyond weapon stubs.  Feel free to move it. LicensedLuny 01:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not a functionality you had five hours ago, because you didn't have heroes only in your GH and nowhere else in PvP five hours ago, and I think that would be a hard and time consuming thing to do. And I'm worse at wiki organization, don't ask me, IDK how many times I've butchered my own pages. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:15, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont think it would be to hard to implement thay already have inability to enter UW, FoW from ToA with henchmen you just gotta have a similar code for entering raked GvG from GH with heroes. --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 01:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not that part that could be difficult, it's the part about putting heroes back in one PvP arena while not adding them to any of the rest, for something where you only have to map to a PvE place to test out, so it could be hard to implement, and potentially useless anyway. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, this is off topic, can someone who knows what they're doing move this to wherever it goes? -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:26, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You can still have heroes in Zaishen arenas so its not the PvP buff blocking them and all other PvP buffed zones other than GH and HA have had them blocked for some time, so i still don't think it will be hard to implement the change to allow you to add heroes to your team in a GH. --[[Image:User Tenri My image.jpg]] Tenri 01:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

This change is most aggravating! GuildHalls were used by PvEers as staging areas too! What we really need is the option to specify a PvE Guildhall that shows the PvE-version of skills and allows heroes. Right now we must RE-ADD heroes EVERY time we leave the GH, cannot upgrade/change heroes in any way, cannot PING a hero-bar for the team...

And this is on top of already not being able to see the proper (from my POV) skill listing/abilities.

Bad change Carinae Dragonblood 01:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd just be happy with what you have, for now, they seem to have a lot on their plate. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You might want to "bad stuff and failures" in there. <font color="#C10000">Ɲ <font color="#000000">oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  01:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Granted, they generally suck, but at least they're putting effort forth now. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * maybe they could make a PvE district and a PvP district of ur GH? -- adrin [[Image:User_Adrin_mysig.jpg|20px]] 01:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Screaming for balance is one thing, but I think this could be a little too much. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 01:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree completely with LicensedLuny, this is really annoying. I use the GH as a quick place to jump to group with guildies, merch, grab stuff from storage, and then jump back to where i was. The handy dandy "leave guild hall" button throwing me back to wherever i came from. Now when it happens my heros will be stripped and I'll have to re-add them. Granted this is all just a minor inconvenience, but it is an added inconvenience that wasn't there before. And I can't see why they would make the change, it isn't like there is an exploit or something they are trying to prevent. It seems like a bit of an over reaction to removing hero battles and they just didn't think of how heros were useful in the GH. Well... they are. so add them back 01:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The game currently prevents teams from entering GvG matches, but allows them to enter scrimmages and otherwise form size-8 groups, if there are five or more non-guild members in the party. The suggestion that adding the heroes limitation would be a tremendous amount of work, when there is already a very similar restriction system in place, seems to me to be nothing short of ridiculous. 208.38.164.61 04:15, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally, as a person who plays mainly PvE, I find it ridiculous that this kind of change was made. The big update we were promised since April turns out to be some irrelevant PvP changes, a few henchmen adjustments, and anet making the place me and my friends set up for runs useless. Yea, wonderful job. Tbh, I preferred it before you added these new "features"... Ashes Of Doom [[Image:User_Ashes_Of_Doom_ursansig.jpg|Talk]] 04:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I was afraid this was how they'd implement it. Why not just a blocker that pops up if you try to enter PvP with heroes in the party?  Having the heroes stripped out of party each time I go to the GH (which I basically use as a hub) is annoying.  Also, tho less mechanically important, I'd like a way to hide all these new henchmen with their annoying little names.  Feels less like my guild's hall than a place all these bums are crashing in on... Joiry 04:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I fully agree with the majority here. No longer is my guild hall a nice warm place to hang out with guild mates (all who play primarily PvE), discuss builds, and plan for outings, most of the time with heroes involved.  Instead it's now just a convenience store for cap sigs and material traders where all these new henchmen riff raff hang out.  Arena Net started pushing PvE players out of their guild halls with the non-toggle-able PvP skill descriptions, and now it's even more clear that guild halls are being targeted for PvP staging grounds with no regard for the PvE aspect of the game.  Please add heroes back to the guild halls; for any GvG players who aren't quite with it, just give them a warning that their party contains heroes which will be removed if they enter a match, similar to the one given when zoning to an outpost that a party member hasn't unlocked yet.71.253.9.55 12:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with everyone above who states that the GH was an important center for his/her PvE gaming...and now is lost and updated to meaninglessness. I want the gold back i put into my GH...   ~ D ragon   [[Image:User Zaishen Dragon sig.png|User talk:Zaishen Dragon]] 13:39, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

"After yesterday's update our programmer is looking into enabling Heroes in the Guild Hall. He is optimistic that it's possible. ~RB" Thats from the GuildWars Twitter, so how about everyone stops complaining, if it can be done it will be done.Simzy 17:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC) The programmer is optimistic that its possible? That has got to be the stupidist thing I have read. Just put the code back like it was, its not rocket science. Did he just start his programming career yesterday?
 * Programming doesn't work like that. What he means is that he is optimistic he can read them to the guild hall and recycle the popup boxes or whatever to warn players. He can't just put the code back like before, as the new henchmen are now there, and rather important... Ashes Of Doom [[Image:User_Ashes_Of_Doom_ursansig.jpg|Talk]] 19:01, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Being a programmer myself, its not simple but its not that complex and im pretty sure it CAN be done, just add a check to see if there are heroes on the group if they are then show a message, there is a similar warning about the number of hench on HA so I dont believe it cant be done, and if it really cant then there is something very wrong with the way they are coding it. 85.247.132.150 19:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for putting the Heroes back in the Guild Hall.
 * This prob goes on the 31st talk page, but whatever. thanks for putting the Heros back in. I'm pleased with the quick response. GW-Myth 02:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank god, UWSC nerfed
With the addition of skeletons of Dhuum, the uwsc reign has finaly come to an end! All hail lord Dhuum! nerfer of the underworld! 82.176.174.199 20:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Aren't they only there for the UW Halloween quests?--Wingsy 20:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't got the quest active, but they're still there. <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  21:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you enter in UW without the Halloween quest in your Questlog, the Skeletons are still there. Looks permanent for me.--SharkinuUser Sharkinu sig.png 21:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I went in on a character who hasn't done the quest and they're still there. This could also be a temporary thing as part of the Halloween event.  <font color="Black">000.00.00.00  21:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Think most of you agree with me on this
GET THESE THINGS OUT OF MY GUILD HALL ANET!Aranox 00:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Waste of time.
Anet, if you want to make HA and GvG better and more populated, then make it more interesting and accessible for people. Then you can also remove henches althogether. AI players is just an excuse for an underlying problem. Not to mention this is player versus player. We don't want mindless bots, we want to see actual strategy and teamwork. Something that has lacked for a long time with all these balance issues, and the low count of players in the more interesting forms of PvP.  SniperFox  14:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Remember the long periods of near-emptiness in Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood... I doubt that the removal of AI in HA and GvG would cause a significant influx of players. | <font color="Red">72 User_Seventy_two_Truly_Random.jpg {U|T|C} 15:01, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, it wouldn't, but it's a step in the right direction. I don't think there's any one thing that's going to save GW now. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 20:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Good Update
I don't really think a lot of people who are commenting on this understand what builds were being played on heroes. In HA, all you would get is, Tease Mesmers with Weapon Spells and Party Heals, Smiters with a micro'd RoJ, Tainters with well... they are just too good at taint, and occasionally Soul Bind necro's in hexways. The henchmen we have now do not have ANY of the builds aside from the Soul Bind one which doesn't have a very good bar for that. The henchmen atm have sub-par bars, which is good since you now HAVE to have 8 people to actually have a chance to do well in HA, taking a henchmen can suffice but you will be severely hindered because any key skills they have, will not be used as good as a human.

And in GvG, the only good thing I can think heroes running would be smiter bars again, but now they are gone.

Good update, people who disagree have a real lack of understanding of what heroes were doing in PvP. --<font color="Black">Frosty  15:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Um, no, I disagree and I understand perfectly well what heroes were doing, I just don't think this was the best way to "fix" it. It wasn't really heroes as per say that were the problem, more those skills and the hero AI for them. Having played against a number of Tease heroes etc. I agree they were a problem but as I've previously state, I disagree that removing heroes was the best way to deal with it - possibly the easiest, though, and I guess if you were ANet, which would you take (for a clue, look at Smiter's Boon and its cousins). 188.74.101.228 17:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Henchman Bars
Is it just me, or are most of the new henchman bars just meta builds which anyone could find on PvX Wiki, for example? I mean, Shock Axe, which has been a meta build pretty much for ever (except maybe it has Executioner's AND Body Blow, and no AChop/DChop)? The Lingering Curse and Unsteady Ground builds are meta, the SB is like an old meta, SH, MoI and MB are pretty much meta... I mean, I'm glad they aren't all just random, bad builds, but they're not exactly original, and though I don't begrudge the winners their prizes, there must have been countless other people submitting exactly the same builds. 188.74.101.228 17:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's definitely not just you. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 17:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * OK I'm not crazy then :-). I was just surprised (not sure that's the right word) at the fact that some of those bars match exactly what is normally run. Something like the HB one, for example, is still pretty much meta, but does at least have Plague Touch to make it a tad different. I still wouldn't be surprised if it'd been submitted by multiple people, but at least it's not something you can just go onto PvX Wiki and copy. Personally I would have prefered, say, UG eles with Glyph of Swiftness or hammer wars with Sand Shards (though OK I guess that's not that original either) for example, just to add a little flavour. 188.74.101.228 19:19, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not you, and yeah, you're right, they just wasted quite a bit of time. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 20:57, 2 November 2009 (UTC)