ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Miscellaneous/Fixing all Primary Attributes

i hate most of these. divine favor is strong enough as it needs to be, it doesnt need to nearly be that good, it heals plenty as it is. spawning power does not help spirits, it is nearly worthless booo. soul reaping is fine as it is it gives plenty of energy, and it doesnt help or hurt the necro, it is just a worthless change. mysticism you just made dervishes uber powerful, they dont need 40+ health for each enchantment loss, they have super powerful enchantments already, i love my dervish but i want it to be slightly challenging. expertise made rangers lose alot of the versatility that made me fall in love with them. you made them suck. you make me sad. critical strikes. why do they need even more energy for each crit (when they already get crits alot) and they have +4 energy regen. they dont need more energy case closed. energy storage. i wanna slap you. elementalists are supposed to have high energy as they have extremely high cost skills, all ele skills would have to be rebalanced, and not all that many skills have exaustion which makes it even more worthless. i repeat. i wanna slap you. fast casting: dont nerf mesmers, they are used so little as it is. now for what is ok: leadership. i cant tell if this would help or hurt paragons so i dont care. strength. appearently wars deal more dps than eles so they dont really need more damage, as eles are supposed to do the highest damage anyway. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.33.117.163 (talk).

failure attempt at balance is failure, whats the point of having a two profession game if you're going to make the primary attributes discourage having two professions? --66.245.88.129 03:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Divine Favor (buff is only alternative): For each rank of Divine Favor, allies are healed for 4 whenever you cast Monk spells on them. Several Monk skills, especially spells related to Energy gain and healing, become more effective with higher Divine Favor.


 * Adding is fun...try it.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Does that additional .8 health matter much? 145.94.74.23 14:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's to make monks heal as much as rits do I guess :/ Divine Favor as is doesn't do that much (35 health at best). ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I like this suggestion. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).
 * As do I. Perhaps though divine favor could give some form of energy back though just generally. as monks are right now, they are incredibly weak with energy management and the standard energy managements have become so fucking stale that the game has become a predictable "wait for monk to cast channeling, rip channeling. wait for monk to cast GOLE, D-shot GOLE." seriously, monks need some form of energy management that doesn't suck ass or require crippling attribute spreads.--72.189.85.14 08:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Leadership: For each rank of Leadership, your Paragon skills cost 5% less energy while you are nearby an ally.


 * Expertise for Paragons? No.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not? It would fix the less than 8 man party problems. 145.94.74.23 14:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It would remove the dependance on adrenal shouts and prevent their abuse, but I don't like the positioning requirement. -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The idea behind this suggestion is good, it's just not worked properly. Leadership is fine the way it is now, albeit there are some skills (especially the adrenal shouts) that give paragons a seemingly easy-access energy battery.  I don't think it's a PA that needs changing. ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Good idea, as adrenaline based shouts would no longer work as a secondary power core. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).
 * I want to thumb your eyes out for suggesting a nerf to paragons AGAIN. which is what you're suggesting.--72.189.85.14 08:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Spawning Power: For each rank of Spawning Power you have, your Ritualist skills cost 2% less energy. While within earshot of a Spirit, your Binding Rituals recharge 4% faster. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power.


 * The other spawning power is better and makes more sense. Why are you giving expertise to classes that shouldn't have it?--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Better as in more powerful or better as in more balanced? A 52% recharge reduction on binding rituals and a 26% cost reduction on Ritualist skills seem pretty powerful, especially when stacked with Attuned Was Songkai. -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. As soon as I saw "your skills cost less" I knew this suggestion was bad.  Right now Spawning Power is only "bad" because it's overshadowed by the overpoweredness of A-Rage, splinter, and the restoration line.  Once those come to manageable levels, people will see spawning power for what it is.  I do think, however, that SP should affect the duration of item spells.~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Good. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).

Soul Reaping: Whenever you cast a Necromancer spell, you lose 1 Health for each rank of Soul Reaping and steal 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Soul Reaping from a random non-Spirit creature in the area.


 * Not as good as soul reaping atm, and not a very good change.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Steal Energy from a random non-Spirit creature in the area, including party members? Is this a serious suggestion? And the Health loss would punish you for having an SR rank that isn't divisible by 3. -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah...what they said. Soul Reaping is cool, just not when it doesn't make sense (reaping the souls of soul-less bone minions/horrors is stupid).  Once Andrew learns what game flavor is, maybe it'll be fixed. ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No way. This will make GvG and stuff impossible basically... 16 soul reaping, run into crowd of spellcasters then use a spammable necro skill. result, impossible energy denial. 217.43.224.72 22:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This idea is terrible, sacrificing health whenever you use a spell. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).

Mysticism: Whenever a Dervish Enchantment ends, you gain 5 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Mysticism.


 * It doesn't need a buff.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The health gain is only a token gain at the moment, but I would hate to see what happens if it became worth it, and people started spamming enchantments. 145.94.74.23 14:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Making it only apply to Dervish enchantments would be a significant nerf to the Energy gain. As for buffing the Health gain, IMO the health gain was overnerfed. -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a passive, randomly abusable PA. Should be more along the lines of "Whenever you remove an enchantment from yourself..." ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Mysticism is fine as it is. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).

Expertise: For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of all of your Ranger skills is decreased by 4%. Several skills, especially those related to Energy costs and skill recharge times, become more effective with higher Expertise.


 * Rangers don't need to be nerfed.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I find it odd that touch rangers are so much more effective than Blood Magic necromancers, but overall, Expertise as it is now is a nice way to use weapons on a differen profession. It is hard enough to deal as much damage as a primary when you have less attribute points to spare. Expertise makes your attack skills more spammable and thus fills the damage gap. I actually like it, the way it is now. 145.94.74.23 14:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just remove touch skills. -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This change to expertise is needed, and has been for the past 3 years. ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Expertise is fine, except with sway. But scythes are what makes sway broken. Look at this-scythes are broken even with an A/D using critical strikes. A/D's don't have escape and are imbalanced. Nerf the scythes. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).

Strength (buff is only alternative): When you use Warrior attack skills, each point of Strength gives you 2% armor penetration. Many skills, especially those related to surviving and inflicting damage, become more effective with higher Strength.


 * Judges insight + 16 strength + Sundering Weapon = 10 + 20 + 32 = 62% armor penetration. Eviserate with 62% armor penetration on critical is about = 205.77 + deep wound = 306 damage in ONE hit.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strength may have a weak effect, but it also has a lot of skills (and a lot of useful ones) so it deserves to have a less powerful passive effect. 145.94.74.23 14:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Are bow, dagger, scythe or spear warriors really a problem? -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Better: "Your attacks have 1% armor penetration for each point in strength (20% chance). Your attack skills always have this armor penetration." ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Energy Storage: For each rank of Energy Storage, your maximum Energy raises by 1 and the amount of Exhaustion skills can cause is reduced by 4%. Several skills related to gaining Health or Energy become more effective with higher Energy Storage.


 * Exhaustion is a way to balance out certain skills. With this buff to elementalist, that balance is then gone, and skills like Ride the lightning can be spammed without any downsides. Also, elementalists are only really used for their high energy, thus allowing more spamming which other classes can't do. By weakening Energy storage you destroy that ability and that class.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is more in the line of some skills being to weak than exhaustion being a bad mechanic in my opinion. Nice suggestion, but I think an elite that removes exhaustion as (part of) it's effect will be more balanced. 145.94.74.23 14:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Estorage is fine now. It's just a sublinear version of expertise or soul reaping. ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Remove exhaustion from skills that don't need it. This suggestion is crap- How about since energy storage reduces exhaustion by 5% for each rank, use 16 energy storage and spam Gale at 5 Air Magic. It will only cause 2 points of exhaustion, so you can inflict unconditional knockdown without warning on demand every 7 seconds(6 for exhaustion and 1 for cast) All it takes now is 3 elementalists spamming Gale to shut down a monk completely. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.16.18 (talk).

Critical Strikes: For each rank of Critical Strikes you have, you gain an additional 1% chance to critical hit with Daggers. Whenever your Daggers inflict a critical hit, you gain 2 energy at ranks 3 and above, 3 energy at ranks 8 and above, and 4 energy at ranks 13 and above.


 * LOL thx for the buff but a sin gaining 6 energy with critical eye in an shattering assault build is a tad too much.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you have some problem with secondary professions? -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason critical sins exist now is because crits in GW take the top damage of the weapon, then reduce 20 armor. If they took a random damage from the range (and maybe upped the armor reduction), it wouldn't be a problem. ~Shard (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Fast Casting: For each rank of Fast Casting, your casting / activation time of all your Mesmer Skills is decreased by 4%.


 * I know what you mean, those fast casting air mesmers are just so dam overpowered.--The Gates Assassin 02:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What about reducing the effect on non-Mesmer spells rather than outright eliminating it? -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Your forget yourselves, GW's dual class system is designed to encourage bizarre class combos, and the variable primary att is the key to this. --Ckal Ktak 21:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

SR suggestion is horrible, just remove the timer and change into "you gain 1 energy whenever a non-summoned creature dies", but I'm not sure about how the range should be 189.70.147.23 01:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Primary attributes
Modifying primary attributes in this way would ruin one of the most interesting parts of Guild Wars. -- Dashface 11:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Primary professions are supposed to be a "bonus," though since most of them are either terribly designed or terribly balanced, they may seem like a requirement to play the class instead (Divine Favor, Expertise). It's ok for PA's to affect other class's skills, just not to the point where they're used ONLY for that reason (like Soul Reaping is now)
 * I just have to say ele is useless. Huge energy pool, yay?  When you're out, it's useless, you just have to wait even longer to regen.  I have used exhaustion builds like mindfreeze just fine for 20 minute+gvgs and only gotten over half exausted so that really wouldn't change half a crap to me to be honest.  Most skills dont cause it and unless you spam everyone that does having it as the effect would be useless.  I'd rather it be the means of energy management than attunement, something any other profession can use.  With a +30/-2 set boom  you now have a fully ele capable Monk Mesmer or Necro and so on.  Why can't it be like an expertise like effect on spells instead? Only prop in being an ele is being able to use their runes, if anyone could all you'd see was Me/E. 74.229.66.241 15:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding? Expertise for spells? Think monks. Think anti melee necros whose spells are all 15 energy. Think elemental attunement + Fire attunement not being needed. If expertise could effect spells, blind bots could not be shutdown by killing their attunement, only by disruption and diversion.--The Gates Assassin 02:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Limiting primary attribute abuse
I think that completely eliminating the benefit of Critical Strikes for non-dagger weapons and completely eliminating the benefit of Expertise for non-ranger skills is overkill, and IMO swapping the functionality of Way of the Assassin and Way of the Master would be simpler. Also, your suggested nerfs would kill critical barragers, leaving the extremely gimmicky perma-SF tank as the only decent non-farming assassin build in high-end PvE. For Dervishes, your suggestion would also be a huge nerf to dervish enchantments with persistant effects or no end effects. IMO a better alternate mechanic would be to make the energy return a percentage of the enchantment's energy cost scaling with Mysticism rank, with a higher percentage for dervish enchantments than non-dervish enhcantments. I'm not sure if your scythe suggestion colud be implemented. -- Gordon Ecker 05:00, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They're all huge nerfs, you're right in that regard. However, I believe they would solve plenty of problems the game currently has, while creating problems Arena Net already has to deal with anyway. Assassins have been in need of a rework for a long time now, IMO - like you said, if only two builds are useful in PvE, and one relies more on a secondary profession (and even SF is more often than not used with elementalist skills to do damage), there is a big problem to be solved. Assassins need to have some skills changed so they actually work in high end PvE while relying on common dagger attacks and other skills belonging to them.
 * I'm not too worried about Mysticism. You could change it so it only works on dervish enchantments, that would be fine by me as well, although I think my original idea had more of a strategic element there. And you're right - I have no idea if that scythe idea could be implemented or not. Erasculio 11:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Depending on how primary attributes and the PvP effect are coded, it may be possible to only nerf Critical Strikes in PvP. -- Gordon Ecker 03:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)