Talk:Game updates/20070927

Nice update
I'm liking the Dishonorable Combatant System, nice job guys! -- AshleyS   (talk•contribs) 23:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the update... however, now we cant run TA anymore :-( That was so much fun! SabreWolf 02:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Why's that? - TeleTeddy 09:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

This probably will not solve the problem
In my opinion this updates will not solve the problem that RA has, hundreads of leavers will continue to leave the game, and they will see they caracthers will not be able to go to any pvp competition, this ppl will allways have pve to to go, why? Because RA ppl, are almost pve ppl, they will go do some pve, and come back to RA when they not have cleared the dishonor points from their account. Another unusefull thing i think is the /report command to report leavers from RA, if im in TA, "i allways will report my opponent team", why? because they need more than one report for the same person, and as we know ppl in the game arent allways good ppl, will explore this "errors", as much as they can. Not all is bad updates, the new Glad system is nice, for ppl who is starting pvp, and for occasionally players, this will make them proud to have a pvp tittle :D --&#91;&#91;User:Supermax&#124;Supermax]] 23:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * False reports will result in an account mark - [[Image:UserDrago-sig.gif]]  Drago  23:55, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe so Supermax, but it will definitely HELP the situation. -- AshleyS   (talk•contribs) 00:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats nice, and ur right ashley, but one more thing why Anet do not spend the hundreads of code lines, to balance RA? (1 monk for each team, no more than 1 job for each team), why not spent the code to make the game more "playable"(sry my english, i dont know if this word exist), and make the game to not penallize ppl. i say this because i see RA as the first step to core PVP,(TA,HA, GVG)and i would be nice if ppl see pvp with good eyes, but as Ashley says this will prevent something, let see the further days... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Supermax.
 * No supermax, you will not report the opposing team because... "Note that you can only report members of your own party or team for leeching." Cloud 01:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

...Yah, the dishonourable thing gets a little cheap in grey areas. What about if everyone on your team is wiped, and the timer to return is already going anyway? YOU GET DISHONOURED FOR LEAVING EVEN THEN! Maybe some of us like saving ourselves a few seconds. So why are we peanilized for that? <_< ~Silavor


 * I think it's a decent system, but it needs exceptions. Leaving while the timer's going (at the end of a match) shouldn't give you points; what if you don't want to keep fighting? You've got a few options, one of which is actually honorable, but you get punished equally for all of them. If I want to quit, I finish the fight, then leave while the timer's going, so my teammates get a new player and keep fighting. I could leave in the middle, but that's not fair to them. As it is, I'll get points no matter when I leave, so I'm screwed either way. My new option? Charge like a manic and try to make us lose, so the match ends and I don't gain points. Wee, that's the most unfair option yet, but I'm not getting punished for it! What, are they going to report me for playing badly? I think not. --[[image:User_Jioruji_Derako_logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  06:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The current way the system is set up to work gives you those dishonor points just for being reported. Anet probably doesn't even check the leaching reports, so yeah.  You're team can, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do, report you for leaching even if all you did was play badly. Pluto 19:43, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This system is terrible. When someone else leaves, you're forced to go play 3v4 when you know there's almost no chance of winning. When your team doesn't bring res sigs, you have to wait there, dead, until they also die. When you know the game is over, you have to wait it out. When you get a griefer, you can't leave. Do you think anyone will report griefers? You have to get the other two people to report them if you don't want Dishonor points and chances are one of them will be some inept retard who won't even respond when you ask your team to report. The same goes for attempting to get your team to resign. --TimeToGetIntense 22:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

SMS paymant
When will be avaible for Poland etc? Why only 1 milion edition? Whay about slots :( Wrzosek 23:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They forgot Poland! --128.195.73.172 02:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They only remember UK? :> Wrzosek 09:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess introducing a feature like this takes some kind of substantial investment so its only viable in countries where demand would be large enough to make a profit out of this all. Biz 15:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

HOSCR Goes Bye Bye
*Adjusted gates on the first and second levels of the Heart of the Shiverpeaks dungeon to prevent an exploit. Bye bye HOSCR... was fun while it lasted... we had 8 man races in our guilds, was really fun... of corse, I would be the only one alive to kill all the oozes. Here goes a stock market boom! Now there are only 3 good farm areas left... and only one has agood turn out... so keep the grind going SabreWolf 02:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Random Arena's Shiverpeak Arena Map
Even though it's a normal annihilation map, it has a 12 minute time limit (I suppose it was a priest annihilation map at some time, but as far as I know, it only has a res shrine as part of the scenery, for the last 2 years. Saphatorael 09:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Uhm last time I played it the res shrine resurrects you on that map

Feedback
Changes to competitive play are really nice, but the system desperately needs some tweaks. - TeleTeddy 09:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We need more situation that allow leaving. Sometimes you have a character that does nothing than survive. Next fight it's 2 monks vs 3 monks - in both situations, am I really supposed to wait eight minutes? That's really annoying... my proposals would be: Don't punish leaving, if
 * you're dead for at least one minute
 * game time generally exceeds 3 minutes
 * another team member of your party has left the game already
 * 8 minute cap is nice, indeed, but in addition to that, you really should add Victory or Death (or something similar) after 5/6 minutes, to forward offensive teams. Otherwise teams will show up, that are very, VERY defensive, try to spike once, and then wait.
 * Please, change functionality of reporting, so that it works only once the game has started. Otherwise, my fear is that too many people will be too quick with reporting, so that people who like to watch the video, for instance, will be reported regularly. (However, I didn't test reporting yet, so maybe this last point is void)

Addendum: Few minutes ago we encountered a team (in the Team Arenas) three times in a row. We have beaten them twice, but in the third match, they managed to get the first kill (via Dancing Daggers spike). Rest of the time, they ran away, and after 7:30 minutes of running we lost due to lesser moral. I won't complain about that, it was a clever tactic, but it was really really annoying and boring, too. Game mechanics shouldn't reward such tactics, so please, deal with this issue quickly. - TeleTeddy 13:51, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Whatever... I would call that ok game play... they know they can only get 1 good spike in, and if they are faster then the rest of you, then use that to your advantage too. I wouldn't call it a great tactic by far... kinda gorrilla ala Revolusionary War... but it did get the job done.  Try a 1v1 on a warrior that lasts 8 minutes to decided who moves on... that was stressful, boring, but I did win SabreWolf 13:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Snare Ghostun 14:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Snares can be removed, can they? You're suggesting that every TA team build should be able to kill a team that retreats, but I think that's rather ridiculous. Anyway, that's not even the point, the point is: Chasing retreating enemies sucks. Current game mechanics encourage retreating if you have higher morale. In my opinion, that should be changed. - TeleTeddy 16:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts: After 4 minutes, have all players suffer from an effect that makes enchantments and stances last half as long. That should neuter pretty much every known build designed to stay up forever. While there are naturally tools to deal with people running ridiculous stuff, there's only one person you can really control when you join RA: Yourself. Telling people to pack interrupts and/or enchant removal on every bar they hope to play is kind of ridiculous.

In TA, I'm lacking in sympathy somewhat as you can fit a snare on 4 skill bars a lot more easily than 1, but both formats need something to ensure that games end. Riotgear 15:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Leaving in RA should be legal. yeah, people were annoyed because someone had the philosophy "no monk - map out". now many more people are annoyed because you have an invinci-ele stone dagger spammer vs riposte healsig warrior. and you have to wait 12 mins watching two idiots who shouldnt ever be allowed to play a pvp game anymore to dont get banned from pvp. sorry for my bad english, its not my native language. --87.10.160.222 17:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Another thought: Rather than a 2-point backlash if a player doesn't get reported, might it be a better idea to simply limit players to one report per, say, 10 minutes? Riotgear 08:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not to have a flame contest... but cry me a river TeleTeddy... just corner the group individualy. I said "I wouldn't call it a great tactic" and "kinda gorilla" that sin team used... so dont put words in my mouth that werent there... read my statement before commenting.  But now that you want to open that can-o-warms... kitting is part of the game... wether you like it or not.  Wether its the GvG flag runner or a team's escape monk running away, chasing a target down is part of this and many other games, you just need to figure out a way to stop it wether it be by snares like Caltrops, or other means of cornering or spiking. So dont cry because your team a losing and the other team is playing keep away... all sports use it including Football, Soccer, Basketball (even though there is fouling in basketball)... so its part of the game play.  Why take a risk of lossing when the ball is in your court and you have the chance to run out the clock?  Me?  Now that you want my opion mate, I would take the kneel down... SabreWolf 01:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The objective of any game is fun. Lying on the ground dead while my teammates futilely attempt to kill someone running a build they forgot to bring the counter for for the better part of 8 minutes is not fun.  It's something I'd normally leave so I could go do something fun instead, which this new system prevents.  Therefore, this new system is making the game periodically less fun.  Improvements must be made.  Riotgear 07:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't comment on your posting, but on Ghostsun's, no reason to be offended. He suggested that snares would solve the problem, but I don't think so, as I've written above. Yeah, I know kiting is part of the game, and by introducing a time limit it's more imporant than ever before. It's just that I don't like entire teams kiting away all the time. Maybe this is part of the game, too, but then I don't like this part, and I'd like to see it changed. I think the reason to introduce a time limit was discouraging runners - it works for single runners, but in fact they encouraged entire teams running, and I don't think this was meant to be like this. You refer to GvG, there they have a mechanism that prevents endless kiting of entire teams, as you have to protect your Guild Lord, who won't kite.
 * Please note, I don't cry because I cannot adapt to the new system, I cry because I think adapting to it will result in less fun than TA used to be. - TeleTeddy 09:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If anything the system about this game is about grinding... but thats a whole different topic. So I thought you directed those comments in my general direction, so sorry about that, becuase he said 1 word with a link, so I figured it was me.  Sorry mate .  But... I agree with the running thing timelimt... less fun for me cuase I jump in with my guild once in a while to do it and rounds would last 35 minutes... it was funny to watch too... but alas... those days are over.  But, I think this is a good thing, becuase it adds pressure... it cuases you to react faster and different... like a shot/play clock... you must make a move in X amount of time.  .  Sorry I have a radio show.  So you can't lay back and grind like everything else in this game, you have to make moves in a limited amount of time.  I would love it, if there were Quarters or Halves in GvG or PvP in general so you can play, then at half time retool and restrats, and go again... and then you could run into a shortened overtime frame incase of a tie.  I have played this style with CS:CZ in CAL matches and its nice.  Could have it that the second half starts with switched sides, with 0 DP. Same rules apply with the guild lords, but there is an overall time limit.  This system would probably be best used in the later stages in the GvG tourny... like from the final 8 on. SabreWolf 12:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Reporting
In the update notes it says that you get a panel for filling in, but i don't get a panel-The Warior Of Timi 18:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The update notes also say there will be a test period from the 28th to the 30th, so it isn't active yet. (but...(looks at calendar)...it should be soon.)  --Valshia 18:43, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Flawed reasoning in glad point adjustment
The patch statement is:

"With the introduction of the Dishonorable Combatant system, we’ve made some changes to the Gladiator title track that will make it more reasonable for average players to attain the track's titles."

Yet the point costs were multiplied by 4. Previously if I won 10 matches, I would have received 1 point, which is the equivalent of 4 points in the new system. Now if I win 10 matches, I get 3 points, which is obviously less. The new system rewards big winning streaks (more of the 4 point wins), which are generally *not* achieved by average players.

You might say that you can now get 1 point at 5 wins, which was previously not rewarded. 1 point is a pittance - that just gives poor players the ability to grind out a title slowly. That doesn't make any of the titles 'easier' to get, because if you're in a team that can win 5 straight, odds are not too bad for them to win another 5 (in RA).

The 10 point mark is important because it is where RA teams get thrown into TA. And the chances of an RA team being thrown together that can match up to TA teams for an extended period are very very slim (exacerbated by the fact that the good players realise they can get far more points through TA than RA for this reason). So as an average or casual player, you hope to get in a good RA group that can get 10 wins. And this patch just made those players take 20-30% longer to get their titles, which is against its stated aims.