Talk:Embark Beach

What's the point of spreading out the travel NPCs so much?
Seriously, is there an actually good reason for putting all of the travel NPCs on the opposite sides of the map? I can understand not wanting people to all crowd up in 1 small place but it's kind of ridiculous the way it is and the whole outpost is pretty big too. Why not just put copies of all 4 travel NPCs in each of the 3 points of interest? Yeah, it kind of defeats the purpose of having 3 different areas like that in the first place but the purpose is stupid as hell anyways. Pjwned 10:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * there are other towns that are much larger like lions arch or kaineng center compared to embark beach it makes it look really small.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 11:22, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * yes but it kills the point gong there to do missions when it takes longer to navigate and pick your destination than say, going "boat Lions arch, and Hells Precipce" than running around an island trying to find it, it should be nice and small like the Random Arenas or Fisherman's Haven  Zachariah Zuan.  12:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If all that is required is just a facility for meeting other players, getting quests and doing trade, then ultimately, you don't want an outpost. You want a dialog box with a big scrollable list of noticeboard items, and perhaps separate tabs for each NPC merchant. But this IS an outpost, and you have to pay at least lip service to the in-game fiction that it represents an actual location, with people taking up space and everything. Now you could argue that Anet screwed up (and people do, all the time) and they should just have provided a dialog box, but that's getting into hypotheticals. -- Hong 13:02, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * if you always log off with your toons in embark beach you will get used to using it. that's what i do and then right away i can get to anywhere in the game with a 8 man party. i would also like to point out that getting to any of the travel npcs is about equal distant to getting to any of the mission starers in nightfall.-[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 22:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I find it takes too long to target the right NPCs and/or walk to them. I can map travel and re-add missing heroes more quickly. I also hate going through the dialogue tree to find the right outpost. And, yeah, I don't like looking the mission NPCs in Nightfall any better; that seems unnecessarily inconvenient. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 03:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have to agree here, and one thing they could have done which would have been awesome (although with a lot more coding) would have one Travel NPC bring up a choice of maps of the continents. These would have  all the mission outposts as glowing dots you can click on to select districts (much like a zoomed out main map, but with the dots clickable, not having to zoom in).  ~Farlo Talk 04:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

....- Zesbeer 06:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I like that suggestion, Farlo. With luck, it's just a matter of bringing up the world maps without having to map travel. Or, I suppose, they could have an EB portal in each campaign. So, instead of traveling to LA/KC/Kam, you travel to EB/LA, EB/KC, or EB/Kam. You can choose to use the travel NPCs to go directly to an outpost or you can do it the old way...without having to worry about dropping party members. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 04:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there are quite a few ways they could "cheat" the coding like that and have it and probably have a much simpler system than now. Even making a whole new interface for the map wouldn't be that big of a deal, just bring up a UI panel with the map on it and copy/paste the same scripts the storybooks use to teleport you, except change the button style and have them bring you to towns.  It'd be a bit of work, but I think it'd look way cooler and be a lot easier. ~Farlo Talk 04:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sure someone else has mentioned this before, but why don't they just add "Sunspear Sanctuary" and "Droknar's Forge" on the map travel? Or, if they want to stick with the "ship travel" theme, pick a port in like Nundu Bay (Droknar's Forge is already near water). -- Kniblet Beast  04:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's another idea I think Anet grossly underestimated when designing the cross-campaign travel. It was really dumb of them to make Lion's Arch the hub when Factions was released, cause the 8 <-> 6 gap was bad enough, but then they made Kamadan the main port for Nightfall... that was just a very poor choice IMO.  I know people complained that they wanted quicker access to the hub to change continents, but come on now...~Farlo Talk 04:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * i didn't realize you guys all worked so closely with Joe Kimmes to know exactly how it would be "so easy to change"
 * Actually Zesbeer, I think it's the designers who put in the spawning points. May be wrong though. I don't see an issue with the travel NPCs - except for the Elona one though. But it's not that hard to get to them, and after a while you learn where they are so not being able to target them from a single spot would be irrelevant. As to why spread them out - most likely to fill up the outpost so you don't have 15 NPCs in one corner and nothing else everywhere else - e.g., empty camps. An alternative would of been to have some traders in one camp, others in another, and then the last stuff in the third camp. But people would complain about that too so... -- Konig / talk 06:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually konig i wasn't commenting on the spawn points i was commenting on these suggestions that changing the map mechanics is just so easy for anet. -[[Image:User_Zesbeer_sig.png|link=User talk:Zesbeer‎]] Zesbeer 06:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

What makes for a good "home base" city?
Embark Beach looks like it's trying to be a good "home base" city, but fails. Elsewhere on this discussion people talk about the negatives. The fact that noone is in party search looking for group is further evidence that this town fails. With all the experience GW has with making towns, with the evolution of adding "home base" towns like Great Temple of Balthazar, and Eye of the North (outpost), you'd think they'd have it better by now. Other good examples would be guild halls, particularly Isle of Meditation (before the henchmen update). And yes, there is something to be said for a realistic layout and cool large town, but save it for normal towns, not home base towns. After the initial coolness impression, I care much more for the functionality of a town that its grandeur.
 *  NPCs grouped logically (Eye of the North (outpost))
 * NPC groups not too far apart (Eye of the North (outpost) almost has this, but too spread appart)
 * No NPC/Terrain body blocking features (Sardelac Sanitarium has an annoying storage agent blocking the chest... yes you can open a chess through her, but that's annoying. This annoying effect only is from one spawn point, it's just being used as the first example that came to mind, as I sometimes camp there)
 * One common spawn point, as getting your initial orientation in any town can be annoying (Isle of Meditation has this).
 * Storage close to spawn point, so you can immediately press "V", "Space" and be at storage (Isle of Meditation had this before new henchmen were added. Now you walk to a henchman instead, which is incredibly annoying if you were used to doing this before).

So, I'd do the following for Embark Beach:
 * Spawn point off the coast a bit, just off the sand, on the grass.
 * Storage (and just a single box in this case, no agent) just a few feet away, where the grass meets the sand.
 * Along the Beach are NPC groups.
 * Activities Groups: Two close sub groups, one on either side of a dock.
 * Daily Group: NPCs like flags, coin rewards, zaishen key rewards.
 * Travel Group: NPCs like travelers and coop mission recruiter/diplomat.
 * Merchant Groups: Three close sub groups, not far down the beach from the Activities Group, where some low-medium cliff meets the ocean and runs inland. Keep a little of the market stand look (like Embark Beach, not like Rata Sum/Gunnars Hold.
 * Basic Merchant Group: merchant/materials
 * Special Merchant Group: rune/die/scroll traders
 * Crafter "Merchant" Group: crafters
 * Fun Stuff Groups: A couple close sub groups down the other side of the beach from the dock. On a little peninsula (but not a long walk), or where the map terminates at a mountain.
 * Vanity Stuff: hats, costumes, makeovers, mercenary registrar.
 * Guilds: guild register, guild capes, guild tours.
 * Extra NPC's. NPC's that wouldn't have to be close and convenient.  You wouldn't go to them much, so they could be placed kinda wherever for aesthetics, so long as they don't get in the way of the main guys.  Could put storage chest agent here (with another chest or two) if she just has to be somewhere.
 * Henchmen could be behind your spawn point, further away from the beach.
 * Special appearance NPCs (like the April Fools helicopter) could be on the low cliff overlooking the Merchant Groups.
 * Possible Future NPCs: Keep the group of NPCs that look like a team of henchmen on the boat. That's a nice touch.
 * Extra land. The explorable land behind all of this could be large or small.  It'd just be there for fun/atmosphere.  Could put easter eggs back there like a baby Plague Worm, Pygmy Hippopotamus, Cat, The Frog, woodpecker, seagull, graffiti, relics, etc.

NOTE: Comments specific to Embark Beach (2nd bullet list) are just an example of how to use the comments from the good "home base" city (1st bullet list), nothing more. The main point is that 1st bullet list. --Mooseyfate 18:04, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That is a very well thought out argument, and I basically agree with all of it. Sadly, since EB is already deployed, I doubt they're going to do a radical overhaul of any kind.  It is rather sad, as an outpost like this had a TON of potential to really make a good grouping/LFG version of Spamadan for the entire game.  What also kind of takes away from the ability of the town to do this is that you don't actually start the missions from this town, which sends all that LFG talk intot he individual outpost, which I guess is a good thing.  ~Farlo Talk 20:44, 14 May 2011 (UTC)