Talk:Palm Strike

Reduce recharge to 5 and change damage to. then it might see use. And elite off hand that takes 10 and causes no conditions is kinda useless. --Lou-Saydus 00:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It gives you unblockabe, armor ignoring damage. It also paves the way for Dual Attacks. If it got 5 recharge, it would be way to powerful with let's say Death Blossom? Nicky Silverstar 10:12, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Death Blossom is kinda weak and is bad for PvP anyway. In PvE it would be a nice combo actually. The most use I see this getting is as a second skill combo chain because as Lou said, 10 seconds is a bit long. Dancing Gnome 11:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

death blossom + Moebius Strike = awesome for PvP and PvE.
 * This actually is kind of useful to start combos...for example, you could use Horns of the Ox and then Falling Spider afterwards. -AyaStowar
 * This will never be used. Don't capRaptaz 14:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is my first assassin elite - it is definitely useful, because it opens up skills that must follow an off hand attack. Blinding powder for example.  It is a fun opening attack, and has made a difference for me - Dray Revis 24.118.91.140 00:25, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This isn't a bad elite. it's a straight up deal damage skill. Nothing but kiting (is this a problem for shadow art sins?) and a certain paragon skill can stop this. And D Blossom is a pretty good skill... FleshAndFaith 17:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * try, this +vampiric assualt, it lines up, and u can run dagger crit deald 10,10,11 builds,Annoying And Deadly 03:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Either this or Jungle strike is the highest damage offhand in the game (Unless I'm forgetting one). And this one can't be stopped, except by a small number of ints. --Kalas Silvern 16:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Considering this is the only skill that count as a off-hand attack and does not need a pre-requisite to activate it's a good skill, then you can freely spam a Dual Attack every 10 seconds or start a barrage of attacks with a Dual Attack.--ShadowFog 05:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with you. If this was a non-elite skill. But it is...which makes you wrong. =P 72.81.247.139 19:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wrong? About being a troller? My signature is an IP? Making an statement with one sentence?--ShadowFog 00:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait a sec. Shadow, whats wrong with using an IP? Nothing he said was "trolling." Whats wrong with saying things in multiple sentences? Just because he made a good point doesn't mean you have to trash him. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 16:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I still stand corrected.--ShadowFog 23:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Blind
even with blind it still does damage so it is very useful for new sin players. king 16:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Well ovcourse... being a touch skill and not a melee attack it cannot miss Nikdanbro 16:01, 14 September 2008 (UTC) :] Nikdanbro 16:01, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Buff
How about make it a KD, and lower damage from 5-60 and keep recharge at the same? 72.81.28.44 20:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol the buff is here I guess...I saw someone use it first time I logged into AB today after the update O_O Seems actually okay to run now Jaian Avery 03:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

i think its proly OP =/ but w/e Lilondra   *gale*  11:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Overpowered (69.228.205.24 12:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC))

Palm->Trampling->FS to start combos sounds fun. And slightly OP. --72.178.119.27 17:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Palm->Trampling->Falling Lotus is better, imho. Anyway similar spike exists since ages with Grenths Grasp(just Golden Phoenix isntead of Palm). Gunm 18:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * At least hit the recharge a bit. This skill is OP as shit. Pluto 19:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Overpowered. Unblockable 80 damage + crippled every 4 seconds for 5 energy? Shit's absurd 67.82.179.27 22:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't fucking touch the CD. It needs a cripple of 8-10 sec and damage of around 55 at 12CS though, the current numbers are way too high ~an Assassin Player
 * this is imbalanced imo 10 sec recharge and slight damage reduction Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Eviscerate.jpg|19x19px]] *gale*  13:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess this is Izzy's way of trying to make Can't Touch This! more viable. Saphatorael 19:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It's on par with Moebius sins imo, maybe make the damage Slashing (and lower the cripple to maybe?). That'd even out the damage to speak the same as a Dual Attack (But in one-hit), instead of Armor Ignoring? Nikdanbro 00:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Also 10 Recharge is just silly... That'd make it useless again =\ Nikdanbro 00:44, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Slashing damage? You do realize it's a palm strike, right?  Unless the assassins have got some bad-ass nails, I'm pretty sure it'd do blunt/crushing damage.  --Jette 16:49, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

If...
this skill was an offhand attack and didn't skip a lead, I think it would be even more powerful. Faster activation, but you do lose the cripple at the start of the chain. But that allows Unsuuspecting->Palm->Trampling->Falling Lotus->Twisting. And that's a lot of damage. 66.57.17.110 11:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * This skill is imba atm the problem is the recharge and long cripple duration. I would suggest the following change: make the rc 8 and the cripple last 1-7 seconds. This way it keeps its still useful as a spike skill without being abused as an insane snare. --86.149.3.156 18:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Guys/gals, you can propose changes in it's skill suggestion page. Palm Strike page.--ShadowFog 18:26, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ummm, you know you COULD use it exactly like that at the moment, just because it doesn't require a lead attack doesn't mean you can't use one. Even so, I think that's a bad combination. Misery  18:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill is fine. It's just imbalanced in RA (and supposedly TA as well, but counters will be invented), but RA isn't supposed to be balanced. It's touch range and in Crit Strikes. Using it in any serious form of PvP will be just like any other spike: painfully obvious. Saphatorael 10:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Death Blossom has never been this good(and capping has never been this easy neither with A).--ShadowFog 16:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm quite happy with what Palm Strike is now. It's more of a casual PvP skill with no real functionality in say GvG. [[Image:User_Secksy_Sig.gif]]S e c k s y  16:48, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You're joking right? Have you been observing any high end gvg's? Almost every team build has Palm Strike splitter ripping through base, it also has heavy usage in HA. It's dominating high-end pvp. 78.149.178.119 11:45, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Remove de crippling effect
and dis will be fixed. Why added crippling izzy?--89.129.129.89 11:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Maeby 'cause it's not attack and has cast time kiting foe flees from u.
 * The crippling is what makes this broken, you get ridiculous KD chains with Horns of the Ox and Trampling Ox. Solution: Make it a hex that slows enemies down so it doesn't get recognized as crippled condition.
 * Remove cripple? No thanks.  People running kite builds need to be kept in place and this skill works very nicely.

Make it useless again..
25e 90rc it.. nuff sed, kthnxbai. --Ulterion 16:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

or to actually keep it feasible,
just make it an attack skill instead of a touch skill. -- Mafaraxas 22:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

OVER POWERED!!
if you have been in ra since the nerf most sins r running it & i mean its realy over powered, crippling, unblockable, spammable, high dmg, feeds alot of overpowered chains71.99.56.118 00:34, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

nerf like smiters boon pls if u dont know any other option, seriously 86.82.19.96 15:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, make it an Off Hand attack and significantly lower the +dmg and it will be fine. Still leads to FANTASTIC combos such as Trampling->Falling->(Horns->Falling->)Twisting. And as an attack skill it could actually power Blades of Steel also. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 21:25, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Nerfed?
Discuss plz. Atomisk 00:35, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * [[image:happy.jpg]] --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:36, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still in Critical Strikes, so no. Needs to be moved to spawning power tbh. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 00:37, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Spawning? Are you serious? Y-.. yo-.. you're kidding me..? On-topic: The crippling change was good, the damage redux was a bit bad. Better than taking away all damage as a whole, I guess.. :/ --Ulterion 00:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * WHOOSH!
 * The sound jokes make as they fly right over you head. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So basically, same damage capacity, weaker utility. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 00:48, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Still spammable and allows for KD chaining with trampling ox. Mark of insecurity, this, twisting fangs, falling lotus, trampling ox, falling spider, and blades of steel. Your target can't do jack to kite, even without the cripple.  Its just there for the second KD.  While twisting and mark of insecurity are recharging you can do everything again, just drop a falling attack.  It rapes NPCs and most players alike.  Just from the attacks bonus damage (assuming 13 crit and 14 dm) you still have 58+19*2+34+19*2+34+60*2 = 322 armor ignoring damage on top of what the dags are doing.  Really not uncommon to do over 500 damage with this combo after deepwound and your target has bleed and poison to boot.  That and you can hit them with palm strike again, even in the middle of your chain to do another hit bringing your total to well over 550 damage most of the time, even against warriors. Yeah thats not the best build for this skill, but it can completely lock someone out for 5 seconds.  They have a sliver of time to cast a quick skill between the KDs, and essentially anything can finish them off after that.  The cripple effect needs to be removed, or this needs an increase on its recharge.  Kelvin Greyheart 01:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You do realize that removed cripple equals same old shitty PS, lower recharge or not? --75.175.2.66 02:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

(RI) I would disagree with that. High damage access to instant dual attacks is still very powerful. I think there would be some interesting builds with the damage reverted and cripple removed. 4 sec recharge means you can bring 2 duals to exclusively benefit from it in a typical 5-6 skill attack chain. 3 duals in one chain. That is elite worthy IMO cause it gives you good bar compression. PS, dual, some offhand, dual, PS, Dual. The direct offhand attacks are somewhat limited, meaning that you have to bring some other skill to meet their conditions for most of them, but the damage from 3 dual attacks is simply insane. Its not a really fast combo, but it can pack one hell of a punch. Use 8-12 second recharge attacks and just auto attack between the combos, and you have enough energy to do it again. 5 skills, and 6 hits, none of which are leads. That leaves 3 skill slots for survival, an IAS, a snare or anti blocking.(Should be noted that an IAS will cause a short pause in the chain while waiting for PS to recharge before the final attack skill) That's without cripple. I honestly don't see how no cripple would kill this skill, especially if the damage was reverted. It wouldn't be broken, or at least not as broken, but it would certainly be powerful. Kelvin Greyheart 02:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you, friend. No cripple will kill this skill. As rangers, eles doesn't always fight like a man, they runs away with running skills when under attack. Cripple is the only way to make them stay with you. 117.18.228.160 05:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Go back to the 14th century when people actually cared about honor. --[[Image:User Mafaraxas_sigimg.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 06:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

well if fighting like a man mean letting people with swords, daggers, and bow, let your quite squishy body, then im glad im girl--64.229.76.72 05:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Bows and wands make for strong frontline. -- Riddle 05:48, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Critical Wanding with 15^50 wands is srs pressure Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, this skill sucks without cripple, is insane with cripple. Change functionality!Crimmastermind 08:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The skill is not even really "nerfed" it has the exact same functionality as before (the spamming, with the occasional trampling ox chain) Anet fails again 98.193.121.227 08:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Without cripple you still have THREE utility slots in a SIX attack chain with THREE duals. As I have already stated you can use a util slot for a snare.  There is enough room for snare, heal, IAS.  For the no leaad offhand attacks you either need a hex, or an enchant.  Be Creative.  I've already spelled out how to get stupidly powerful combos by using this.  If you cannot bring a snare that is not my problem.  Hell you can split into deadly arts and pack vampiric assault (maybe) on there, allowing you to bring dark prism, and a strong implale that can be used at any one of several points in the combo.  So if your target is near death, impale them and auto attack leaving 2 or 3 skills unused, switch targets, wait 2-3 seconds and reverse the order of your chain, and by the time you get to the other skills that you had previously used they have recharged (except impale).  If you are using 6 and 8 second recharge duals the build has essentially no penalties because you can switch targets almost instantly and do the combo in a different order.  With cripple its even more bar compression because you now have a 6 skill attack chain with a snare in 5 skill slots.  I reiterate my previous statement.  No cripple will not kill this skill in any way, especially if the damage is reverted. Kelvin Greyheart 11:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

An interesting interpretation is that the damage reduction was actually a buff. Now it's unblockable damage which is reasonably high and also ducks Spirit Bond. I know Spirit Bond was the major prot I used against these guys. Misery 11:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

The reason why reducing the cripple is important is due to the inability for effective removal compared to reapplication time frame before. Basically, a PS can keep someone perma-crippled and continuously pulling out chains. The reduced cripple is not much at first, but if you consider wearing reduce cripple rune instead of a vitae, as well as having a reduce cripple shield... the cripple lasts 2-3 seconds at most and allows you to kite away. This greatly reduces the output of the assassin damage, as well as limiting the speed at which to execute combos and regain energy through scoring criticals. Before, PS made it a no-brainer skill for sins to blow up people, now it may be in balance. The PS can still blow up people, but if the target is smart and good (the reason for pvp?), then they have methods to mitigate the damage.
 * Its not nerfed, dis simply NEVER needed deh crippling condition, now is balanced but i still thinking crippling must be removed to be balanced--89.129.133.15 13:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still OPed, nuff said. 4 seconds snare don't mean anything if your target is on the ground long enough to die.Pika Fan 14:58, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

GO ARENA NET!
so...let me get this straight....for every whiny b*tch we get PvE narfs right?... sin has been brought down to his knees with narfs....it's the weakest profession out of all...and I've played sin since factions came out.... OK the sin was unbalanced (when he first came out did 400-600 dmdg in a matter of seconds) BUT COME ON! JUST TAKE OUT THE FROFESSION! I am not on the side of people abusing skill builds and PvX builds...I detest those people...but why make PvE crappy for som PvP fu*s?
 * You get Shadow Form in PvE, stop whining? Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 08:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This is the monthly skill update. tbh that's a perfect change to Palm Strike. I'm quite disappointed they didn't buff anything, but Palm Strike was all broken. The damage wasn't totally mitigated and the cripple duration was totally broken, keeping foes permanently snared while spiking them.. Palm Strike sucks in PvE. Use Shadow Form and Moebius Strike. --''' -Ch  ao s-  08:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * wow... I almost though that i was in wrong talk page and read the para instead... you f-king kiding me? you think that they have nerfd assas so you can't play them anymore? yes you guyes have SF... the paras is the ones that is nefed like hell and do you know how many ppl play this? it was and it's kind of broken anyways :P --Orgeron 09:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I love how Paragons get nerfed repeatedly yet they are still overpowered. Same doesn't go for sins - they are just broken, never over- or underpowered. :\ Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 09:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because they're nerfing paragons the wrong way. All the Factions and Nightfall classes are broken or unbalanced in some fashion that makes them extremely difficult to balance properly.  They could all use a complete rework, with the possibly exception of the Dervish which might be fine with a colossal reduction of scythe damage.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 11:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Assassins are still powerful. What modes are you playing Mr. 79.114.55.170?--Wealedout 14:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Anet really needs to stop screwing up pve with pvp nerfs, i thought that was why they introduced pvp versions of skills, for example the warrior defensive stance nerfs, what warrior in pve is going to use any of those stances now, purely cos of abuse in pvp by monks etc. Ok fine, but anet could have minimized the damage by simply making rubbish pvp versions of the skills, but they made a load of skills that, if anything could use a buff, completely rubbish for their intended users. And the moral of the story is: Anet, start using this pvp version of skills game mechanic for nerfs, instead of screwing up half a proffesions attribute purely because some monks in pvp abused it.Shogun 22:09, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

The crippling effect needs to be lowered by another second still.


 * be a good player, use shields that reduce crippling duration. --''' -Ch ao s-  19:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I'd like to see some functionality that included a skill requirement. Something like double the recharge, remove the cripple, but if you hit a moving foe, half recharge and cripple. Osht, you have to think to use an assassin, but if you do it perfect (and hitting moving targets with a touch skill isn't that easy), it's as good as it was before they touched it. Misery  19:20, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You really shouldn't be using shields that reduce cripple duration if you encounter a PS sin; you should be automatically on your piercing shields.Pika Fan 00:38, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "If you use this skill on a foe below 50% health, this skill recharges for 15 seconds" 90.212.161.117 19:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Also misels get on msn 90.212.161.117 19:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So reall, you want it to be worse than it was before it was buffed, when almost nobody used the skill, Misery? You realize it is an Elite, right? - 68.97.132.22 04:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wrong-o. Even if you didn't hit a moving foe, you would still do the same amount of damage pre-buff--assuming we're talking about pre-Jan update--and have a bit shorter recharge. --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 05:05, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That'd suck. --''' -Ch ao s-  20:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What about a Searing Flames style functionality so that it is always a snare, but not always a cripple? For example if it hits a crippled foe, it knocks them down, but if the foe is not crippled, this inflicts the cripple for some duration. Adds some tactics to it, by making the decision of which of two effects you really want. As for the post below, I would say that yes a longer recharge would be in order. Even with this effect, the quick recharge into a dual strike with no lead anywhere is pretty strong. Guildwarsrunner 23:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Infinite Cripple?
Sharp dagger thingy? - (Rezu Blackheart 23:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC))
 * Cripple has nothing to do why this is overpowered. It's the ultra-low-recharge, 5-energy, decent-damage conditionless off-hand attack that makes it overpowered.  Crippled is just brown icing on the crap cake.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 23:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * But its the cripple that makes the Meta shine. Hows about we keep the current green numbers but with ? --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 00:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you even read what Jette said?Pika Fan 00:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The conditionless offhand part irks you, I take it? --[[Image: User_Ezekial_Riddle_sig.jpg|19px|Talk]] Riddle 00:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You only need the cripple to last half a second so you can land a trampling ox, then unleash the mindless 1-2-3-4-5-6 chain with trampling, falling spider, horns of the ox, falling lotus, twisting fangs (or blades of steel) for a ridiculously no-skill-required huge damage and huge disruption attack chain. That shouldn't exist, ever.
 * Maintainable cripple is crap. It will just get RC'd in two seconds, but that's two seconds too late for trampling. - Auron 00:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That, exactly. "Palm strike got nerfed."  "Yeah, they just missed all the things that make the skill broken."  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  02:15, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if 1 second of Dazed would've been better (at least flavor-wise)... Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ  02:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 1 second of daze would have been dumb, this skill is still broken and PS sins will still donimate Shitty HA with dual Me/Rt's... 90.212.161.117 02:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Go Go Gadget inertial stablizers. But why?  KD is much too easy with this skill.  Still to powerful.  StatMan 15:49, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If trampling ox is the problem, then why not make the cripple a hex instead?[[Image:User PaperFace Image- User PaperFace.jpg|19x19px]] PAPER FACE  talk 14:57, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Because hexes are a problem too. Misery  15:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If all skills that grant infinite cripple are by default overpowered than rangers need an absolute ton of enormous nerfs. seriously, learn to fight assassins instead of just Whining.  Krak  en  04:16, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

(RI)Ranger cripples don't do large amounts of armor ignoring damage, and rangers can't KD let alone KD chain, and don't have access to deepwound. Rangers can do large amounts of damage, but not with their cripple skills. I am only referring to bow attacks here. Kelvin Greyheart 06:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Rangers do need nerfs, but not because of Pin Down or Cripshot. They are balanced skills because of fairly high/high energy cost, no bonus damage, lack of spammability on Pin Down, shortish cripple on Cripshot, Cripshot being elite, Pin Down being blockable, needing a fairly high marksmanship spec, etc etc. Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 07:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter that the crippling can be maintained, what matters is A/R's who shadow step to you, Palm Strike->Lightning Reflexes->Trampling Ox->Falling Spider->Twisting Fangs->Palm Strike->repeat. I'll just spec some points into Strength so that my monk stops falling down >.> . It should be an attack skill, or it should have a different function. Palm Strike. Elite touch skill. Target touched foe takes X damage and for 5 seconds, your next Dual Attack cannot be blocked and deals an additional Y damage. This skill counts as an offhand attack. It stays useful, and isn't a bullpoop OP KD spam. FleshAndFaith 23:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Split into PVP/PVE versions.
Please? Alexandurs 22:11, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Or, we could just make it balanced for both. If it was 15e, it'd be okay.  Or, hey, here's an idea: Make it disable all attack skills for three seconds.  Then stupid spikers won't be able to abuse it.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 23:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pretty trash in pve. Cripple is loluseless and 6 skill attack chains are loluseless, since either the monster is super weak and dies to 3 attacks or the monster is a boss and lives because he has a billion HP. Either way, palm strike is bad. Just smiter's boon it. Or revert to pre-buff version. - Auron 11:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * PvE version:Ranged skill, counts as an offhand, 120 armor ignoring damage to all foes nearby to your target and counts as an offhand on all of them. Lower recharge to 2. Misery  11:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, it deserved a name change to CoPalm Strike <.< 128.176.178.33 11:48, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It might be "loluseless" in normal pve but i was kind of liking it for missions in hard mode with my team, anyway i guess it still works but i dont find cool that pve had to be affected cause a skill is somewhat overpowered in pvp, if theres already a pve/pvp system, would it be too difficult to add this skill to the list? Alexandurs 22:18, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Smiter's Boon should never have happened, and should never happen to another skill. - 68.97.132.22 00:14, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If by that you mean, "Smiter's Boon needed to happen, and should happen to all overpowered, abuse-friendly skills", then you're 100% correct. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  Raine   - talk  04:59, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Palm Strike should stay the same in pvp but go bak to its previous form for pve...Bive (talk · contributions), March 26, 2009
 * Am I sensing a Freudian slip? Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 05:43, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh, that's weird.
An elite skill that's actually elite? Gaspshockhorror. Vael Victus  14:32, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah for real...I'm all for balanced play, but this IS the one thing that gets sins into higher level PvP...and honestly which generic "balanced team"(shockaxe, hammerwar, rc monk, etc) won't carry at least 1 copy of Aura of Stability? Before it was a piece of shit regardless of damage, because you can't follow it up with anything decent... Jaian Avery 03:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

About Time
Title about says it all. But I'll say this, with a 5 energy cost it's too powerful, change it to 10 so it can't be chain spammed. --Lou-Saydus 18:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * then it couldn't be used. stop whining and bring counters, please. --''' -Ch ao s-  18:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not whining, actually I don't play gw anymore, I'm just saying it's over powered in it's current form simply because of it's spammablity. A small tweak is needed, not redesigning, however I doubt the dev team can practice restraint when changing this skill. If it gets changed it'll more than likely either be a retarded buff or nerf and nothing reasonable. Also, check out the first post on this page back on '07. --Lou-Saydus[[Image:User_Lou-Saydus_Sig_Image.png|How dare you put that damned dirty thing on me!|19px]] 18:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * tbh PS has been fine after bringing the numbers down a bit. People just don't realize that sins will still gank them whether it gets nerfed or not. --''' -Ch ao s-  19:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed, it's a great skill that is near perfect, while I don't agree with the 5 energy cost at least it's useful unlike far too many other elites. --Lou-Saydus[[Image:User_Lou-Saydus_Sig_Image.png|How dare you put that damned dirty thing on me!|19px]] 19:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 10 energy is too much, 5 is too little, and there's nothing in between. Make you lose 2 energy upon using :D --''' -Ch ao s-  19:11, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * -2 energy unless hexed. Vael Victus  [[Image:User_Vael_Victus_Sig.jpg|18px|Pancakes.]] 06:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

The Average Dual Attack still does more damage than it is currently, I say leave as-is =] Nikdanbro 00:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Diversion  <- You see what I did thar? 24.18.94.224 05:59, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You could say that about every Assassin skill, but you have a point. 68.45.201.243 04:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, you don't have a point there. Let's say I have a spell that deals 1000 damage, with a recharge of 0 and a cast time of 0, because it's magical. Are you going to tell me that it's balanced because you can bring Spell Breaker or divert it? I think not.
 * This skill is overpowered. Period. To make it more visible:




 * -- Shadowcrest  04:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a skill that deals 1000 damage (and even more, with some preparations and chance). --Slavic 15:12, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comparing PvE skills in general to anything in and of it self tosses balance out of a 50 story window, runs down the stairs to ground level, pours gasoline on it, lights it on fire, then gets in a car and ramps off of the ashes a few times. Only a few of the pve skills are at all balanced, and those that are are essentially never brought.  Kelvin Greyheart 15:43, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

wouldn't the ultimate solution be to untie it completely? i play all classes so i haven't dedicated a lot of time to assassin, but one of the first things i noticed is that if anything palm strike actually lowers my dps due to the aftercast delay. JimmyB 10:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not being able to spam dual attacks lowers your dps. --''' -Ch ao s-  10:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * wtf? Disable all dual attack skill upon the use of a dual attack. Reduce damage of each attack skill for each attack skill on your bar? Are you insane?! Sin are glass cannons they do insane damage at close range but they also can’t take it for crap, yeah palm strike is spamable, but so is reversal of fortune, guardian and protective spirit (all non-elite counters to palm strike) Assassins specialize in taking out the unprepared foe that is why they dominate in splits because the smaller groups can’t cover all the possibilities. With the current state of monk, mesmer, necro, and rit melee counters you really can’t complain if you get owned by a sin, there are more than enough counters for it. PS in its current form is perfect in my opinion this what Sin are all about, they do everything to the extreme but only for a short period of time. The only issue there may be with PS is the recharge time. if u have to be a wuss about it, the only viable change to this skill would be to make it have a 8 seconds recharge time and cause cripple for longer than 8 recharge and it becomes useless again... oh wait I just read this from Auron's little rant above this is hilarious"...it's the stupid number of attack skills you allow assassins to bring. If you punish them for having attack skills and nothing else, you will be encouraging sins to use their wide variety of utility skills..." did he really suggest punishing a fighter class for bringing attack skills? That is priceless. man a sin that bring 7 attack skill and a IAS is useless, melee in its self is an effective penalty, you need utility to get in range, snare and live long enough to get off your combo, so a sin with a "...stupid number of attack skills..." would be useless unless you let him/her WALK up to u and begin their combo, in that case u deserve to die anyway! Omg I could just pick that whole selection apart piece by piece.  I’ll be honest with you I’m Auron Bushi. I’ve made many retarded rants here in GWW, but that ridiculous. (That’s why you'll see me mark my stuff Auron B, Auron B (Not that Guy) or something like that)173.116.216.187 19:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, and Protective Spirit are not counters to Pimpslap. HINT: Knockdowns, Palm Strike going through all viable defenses, and knockdowns. In other news: Warriors are a melee class. Unlike Pimpslap sins, they can't get away with taking a 6 attack skill + IAS + some other random crap skillbar and win PvPs. (Except for Unlimited Energy, but that is a whole other matter.) Care to try again? Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 07:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Reversal o' Furtune will negate 1 hit wich is all that is necessary to survive the combo, gaurdian will block every thing but palm strike, saveing your butt, and prot spirit is the end all spike skill. listen, there is an after cast after ever shadow step, and if the sin doesn't shadow step to you the he/she ran up to you. If you dont take appropiate action or are unable to take apropiate action in that time thats your fault! blinding flash cast in 1/4 a second, war/rangr defenivee stances have no cast time an can be used even when on the floor, ineptitude+fast casting is quick enough, the list goes on and on. just because the "Meta" refuses to attempt to keep up with skill changes and players refuse to pay attention to their surroundings does not mean a skill is over powered. Sins kill quick and die faster get ready for it! like i said sins specialize in taking out the unprepared.70.6.14.153 19:21, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Blinding Flash is 3/4 of a second. The fact remains that you can still pull off 3 dual attacks with 5 skills.  3 skills for utility/res still leaves room for anti block and a condition removal like Assassins Remedy.  Kelvin Greyheart 22:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Reversal of Fortune will negate the damage from one hit, and then you'll be on the ground all but permanently after that. Good game? Guardian may or may not block everything; if either Ox skill gets through, you probably die. Prot Spirit has barely any effect since every damage packet in the Pimpslap chain is ~60 damage already, plus degen and deep wound. Same reason why Spirit Bond won't save you either. And if you used both together, you just spent 20 energy. :\
 * Shadow Steps have an aftercast, yes. But unless you have god-like reflexes or are expecting the Sin at any moment, good luck seeing that and instantly casting Blinding Flash etc. If you were in the middle of casting something else (great time for the Sin to jump in!), then you have the additional time restriction of having to cancel your action, whether through the cancel key or moving.
 * Stances are an excellent defense against melee in general; however, for Warriors they are all in Tactics (mostly crappy skill line, gimps your offense; Mo/W are fine, though). Ranger stances plus perhaps Antidote Signet should make you pretty much immune, but that is a case of fighting overpowered skills with more overpowered skills. :\ Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 03:56, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe they wanted to make "Can't Touch This!" a viable skill. 145.94.74.23 07:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * But it's still not a viable skill. It never has been. If you're already taking it to fuel Soldier's Fury, that is one thing. But to seriously use it to prevent touch skills...the problem is that it makes the skills fail, thus incurring no recharge, and so you can keep spamming the touch skill until "Can't Touch This!" is over. To steal some maths that someone else calculated:
 * "Good assassins pack +5e on their daggers, because they understand that damage inscriptions only apply to base damage, so a good Palm Strike sin would have 30e to start with, minimum, plus zealous daggers. Now, "Can't Touch This!" cannot cause Palm Strike to fail more than 5 times in PvP, because 17 Command would be unreachable. So even on a primary Paragon with 12+1+(1-3) Command, a PS sin can simply use Palm Strike 6 times [which only takes as much time as you can mash the button 6 times, since failed skills end instantly and incur no recharge or aftercast]. By the time the 6th Palm Strike finally connects, the assassin would have regained the 5e necessary to use Trampling Ox. He would then switch to his zealous daggers and commence Trampling. As a Dual Attack, this would return 2e minimum, but because the PS sin probably has 13+ Critical Strikes and 13+ Dagger Mastery, it is more likely to return 5e, or even 8e- and don't forget about the natural energy regen during this time, which would be 1-2 depending on the use of an IAS. Therefore, only a very unlucky or very mediocre sin would not be able to complete his chain following "Can't Touch This!" even at the maximum possible Command."
 * Vili [[Image:User Vili sig.jpg|User talk:Vili]] 07:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * At 30E if the sin spammed palm strike 6 times in a matter a second or so then changed to zelous daggers he would find himself with like 2 nrg that asuming ofcourse those daggers have a +5e bonus on em as well if not his nrg would drop below zero and would not rise above that until the point when his nrg would normal be above70.6.14.153 20:38, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 5e mod is separate from the zealous mod. +5 daggers would either be vamp or have elemental damage (IE for wars), and the zealous ones could also be +5.  Also, you are forgetting radiant, and attunement bonuses that may be worn.  2 energy vs 10 health isn't a terrible trade off.  Also, how many times have you seen cant touch?  It's a crappy skill and is very niche.  Not worth the slot generally.  Kelvin Greyheart 00:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Physical Damage
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but Palm Strike seems to be armor-ignoring (and I wear more than 60 armor). If maybe this skill was Blunt damage, I would be okay with it. I don't know about you guys, but my own Palm is pretty blunt. If you guys have Piercing, Slashing, Ebon or Vampiric palms, there's nothing wrong with that, everybody's different. Than 16:45, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because you are a noob martial artist. My palm strike is actually armor ignoring (I'm just teasing you, please don't be hurt by my piercing attack).  I agree with you for the reality of this attack.  We'd have to change other skills, like headbutt, riposte.  The problem with this realism is balance.  Palm strike would be worthless vs warriors, and less effective vs everyone else.  As is, it does about as good vs warriors as clothies.  If everything is typed, warriors will win (96 armor vs elemental with a shield, 116 vs else), or the game will be plagued with tons of armor boosters.  So, the question is balance or realism?  StatMan 00:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh okay, I see your point. Thank you. Than 03:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

NERFED!
NOOO IT WAS NERFED TO 7 Recharge! Palm Strike sins will be unpleased. Builds will have to be changed... D= --Darkshade504 04:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * D=? no... its =DDDDDDDDDDDDDDd - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg|18px]] 06:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

About time, that skill did needed a slight tweak 201.160.152.76 10:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Moar laik a wrench between gears and less variety. --173.65.149.85 13:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Doubt it will make much of a difference. -- Halogod35  [[Image:User Halogod35 Sig.jpg|15px]] 00:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

about dam tiem, i can return to AB without worry of a flgiht of sins chasing me down in a wierd formation and ganking me in a half second--Lord randy taylor 03:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This nerf changed nothing. It's still the fastest recharging skill on the PS bar.  ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 03:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, you can no longer PS-->DB between chains.  Life  03:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not nerfed, still broken. Anet beats around the bush again. It's not recharge that makes it powerful, its the fact that you can wtf skip to more powerful attacks that you're supposed to build up to. It's called an attack chain, right? At the end of the chain are the most powerful attacks, right? Wrong. PS lets you throw the laws of physics out the window, and go straight to the end of the chain, skipping all the important parts. Imagine if I could instantly be a blackbelt in any martial art I cared to learn, in less than a second, with no discipline. I abuse my powers, correct? Chaos ensues. Welcome to broken assassins. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|20px]] 13:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Change
This should be changed to Deadly Arts or Shadow Arts to pervent Kd and OPness.--Ultima Flames 18:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC) Quoted from a guildie. But yah. No sin skill should bypass the lead->offhand->dual attack system. pers onn5  02:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And then secondary proffessions could use it better. pers  onn5 [[Image:User_Personn5_sig.jpg|19px]] 18:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * the only problem with this skill is the condition, change it to weakness and it will be fine. - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 00:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * /agree. Let me hit you with my palm! Gasp! you've broken your leg! pers  onn5 [[Image:User_Personn5_sig.jpg|19px]] 00:24, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There's far more wrong with PS than the cond. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig.png|19px]] 00:40, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * PS is broken because it costs nothing, can't be prevented, recharges instantly, allows for an immediate dual attack and requires no skill or expertise to use successfully. It promotes rolling your face across your keyboard to get a free kill (although, to be fair, so do all other usable assassin skills) and it actually works more often than not.  p.s., the bolded area is the big reason  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 02:43, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "palm strike isn't broken, all you have to do is stop the assassin before he gets to you and he can't kill you"
 * Lies. PS is broken because it allows for dumb knocklock chains which otherwise would require too many skills. Also, lol Backbreaker. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 09:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * jette, the bigger problem is you can use 4 other off-hand/dual attacks after trampling, palm strike doesn't kill on its own, its the 23456, now if we eliminated the cripple from it, that would cause it to 1. become usable with other duals 2. lessen the instagib facerolling 3. give you less bar compression, you wouldn't have a snare but you'd have to get to your target somehow.. another thing is trampling ox's recharge needs to be nerfed to 10. - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 10:16, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not hard to optimize to a more clunky build with PS-horns of the ox-falling spider-iron palm-falling lotus-twisting fangs if cripple is removed :3 But still, it is usable with every dual attack (other than exhausting assault), "becoming usable with other duals" doesn't make much sense. Dual attacks are the most powerful damn things for assassins, it should be at least 10 (5e lead+5e off) energy to get to using them. And Personn, your guildie's quotes sucks terribly. Haru 21:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ^, basically. –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 00:11, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * its not hard, yes but look at iron palm's recharge ;D, look at hoto's recharge, look at hoto's damage, look at hoto's CONDITION, retards couldn't faceroll with it anymore... yeah... nowhere near close to where currently it is.. and by point 1 I mean that PS restricts the dual attack used after it to only 1 skill because of its condition. bad. - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 11:45, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

So
Why are we wasting an elite on something a necro can do cheaper and non-elite. Backwards Llort 20:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * i guess you missed the part of an offhand attack not needing a lead and cripples which combos nicely with Trampling Ox-- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|20x20px]] 20:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 1/10, try harder. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 20:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's a lead and a cripple that both do more damage than palm strike and save you an elite, not to mention the cripple is ranged. Backwards Llort 20:35, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm waiting to see how many will actually bite that. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 20:48, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * popcorn?-- BobbyT [[Image:User_BobbyT BobbyT_Sig.jpg|20x20px]] 20:52, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please. NuVII  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] 20:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The answer is obviously that an A/N is bad. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 10:02, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Defile Defenses or Rigor Mortis > Expose Defenses -/-pssh, month late-/- Discuss 18:43, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello, could you please elaborate on how this is related to the topic at hand? -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 00:06, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The answer is obviously that an A/N is bad. I'm bad at noticing trolling, if that was what it was. But I was just countering your statement, which is related to the section through your post. Also it bypasses the whole, no it isnt, yes it is, discussion and just jumps right to the reason why it isnt... -/- Can't bash a primary/secondary just cause, people might get the wrong idea :x -/- Discuss 18:26, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It has no combination's which serve an assassin primary (hex-based chains are worse than regular spike chains). If DD triggers then your attack is still blocked, and you can't finish your chain, and sins have a counterpart for Rigor Mortis, which is dumb, because they can just spam unblockable attacks instead. You can actually bash most profession combination's on sight.
 * And yes, it was trolling. -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 23:08, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Bug?
It wont KD people...--Eilrahc 14:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Where in the description do you see the word knockdown? 71.193.48.146 15:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The joke is that every single PS bar in the game has a KD skill...Haru 22:53, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Bug?
It wont cover cripple with bleeding...MAFARAXAS 00:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Rofl. --Briar 22:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Erm, it doesn't cause bleeding. Thrain[[File:User_Thrain_Sig.png]] contribs 22:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Its a joke thrain. --Briar 22:58, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Vulcans do not understand humor. Thrain[[File:User_Thrain_Sig.png]] contribs 22:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ROFL!!! --Briar 23:01, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Lol
Redirects from pimpslap Synthetic Ian 16:21, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

An idea
What if it was either a lead attack and/or caused bleeding, rather cripple? Harrier C. Goodman talk 17:43, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Tell ya what, when you can cut someone open with the flat of your palm, then I will support THAT change. As to the lead attack part, Assassin's have plenty of those. The goal of this was to allow you to SKIP them, in favor of doing something different. Admittedly most are probably going to follow that note and Trampling Ox combo it. 66.228.16.64 10:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)