ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Assassin/Jagged Strike

Gates Assassin Discussion
[go here]--The Gates Assassin 05:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * People actually think this is good? Flavor-wise, this is arguably my favorite assassin skill in the game, but its effect is really, well, bad. This needs bonus damage more than puppies need air; increasing the duration to 60 seconds would do nothing to this skill, and increasing the duration to 20 seconds did nothing to it. In fact, I'd be fine with dropping the bleeding duration to and adding on either damage or deep wound. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 09:34, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Go to RA or AB and ask if people think Jagged Strike is good. Guartee you will get a lot of yeses.--The Gates Assassin 21:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * give it HOTO dmg 1...10 76.26.189.65 21:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * HotO's damage is too low. with a 4 second recharge +20 would be fine. Golden Fox is unblockable, so if this is to be an all damage output skill it should have damage equal to it, without the ability to be unblockable. So basically, this should do more overall damage than Golden Fox at the cost of unblockablility.--The Gates Assassin 01:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I also think it needs bonus damage like you suggested. The reason why people *think* this is "good" is because if you miss with it (i.e. blind/miss hexes)you can use it again after hex/blind gets removed assuming you didn't also fire off your offhand and dual and waste them. Other than that it is as bad as sever artery without gash since bleeding is pretty lame and against block chances GOlden Fox Strike is better.--Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 03:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Giving it +30 damage just like Golden Fox makes it deal more damage. thus giving this skill a reason to exist.--The Gates Assassin 11:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait, guys, I was wrong, this skill is obviously fine because a single assassin can run around the entire enemy team setting them all up for gash-spikes from the oh-so-common sword warrior. And, of course, we wouldn't want to buff that. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 20:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know if that was sarcasm, but the likelihood of an assassin running around putting this on people is unlikely IMO. Shadowsteps aren't viable for this since they are on 20-30 recharge. At best you can Dash to people...and hope there's no condition removal while you spam bleeding. Many sword warriors carry cripslash nowadays anyway, so the bleeding is sort of secondary to the -50% speed from cripple. And how is gash any good compared o Dismember (+20 or so damage isn't worth the extra strikes of adrenaline and conditional deepwound)? If the damage on Jagged Strike gets buffed to anything more than +15 ,the recharge should be upped a bit to 2 or 3 but it wouldn't be imbalanced at 1 either. Assassins don't have any synergy with bleeding other than Seeping Wound, which is a joke. You could argue Malicious Strike/Signet of Malice/Iron Palm but other conditions work for those. Gash is the only real synergy with Bleeding (Maiming Spear/Lacerate/ are not exactly worth Jagged Strike spam.). (Other stuff like Discord/Vile Miasma/Disrupting Throw/Iron Palm/Virulence/Stunning Strike/Malicious Strike works with all conditions, not just bleeding.) Anyhow, if you wanted to spam bleeding, a Ranger with Barbed Arrows would be way more useful. --Life Infusion &laquo;T&raquo; 03:35, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess I wasn't specific enough, if the damage was raised to +30ish then the recharge would be raised to 4 as well.--The Gates Assassin 05:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It was sarcasm, and you did an admirable job of pointing out the problems with both this skill and Gash. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 23:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Lilondra
Add a 1/2nd cast time would fix this. No it wouldn't.--The Gates Assassin 20:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Jagged strike > fox > wiee fast spike ;)Lilondra 06:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Faster doesn't = better if it doesn't do anything.--The Gates Assassin 01:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, but it would be a lot of fun to stick an Avatar of Melandru Dervish with Fragility and spam this on them. I think so, anyway. =) -- Kite 19:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * One of the first things I tried when Mel came out. Fragility only triggers once on Melandru. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 19:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Gates You know as good as i do that youre duals deal the damage.Lilondra 16:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do you think people take black mantis thrust, unsuspecting and Golden fox over other? Because the others suck. They have no purpose in the build. Black mantis provides some damage and cripple. Unsuspecting is LOLWUT powerful and golden fox is unblockable and does some good damage with a quick recharge. This essencially has no effect with a 1 second recharge time.--The Gates Assassin 02:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Golden fox is used in a SA build and rarely sees use in any other build.Black mantis forces you to use a hex and tbh I dont like sp.and Unsuspecting is powerfull indeed.At the cost of draining 25-40 % of youre blue bar and at the cost of not being able to put some other duals like twisting in your combo without any decent energy management (problems).If you reduce to 1/2nd with no aftercast ofcourse you can quickly skip lead and off hand and start youre combo so you barely lose time.Lilondra 15:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Lilondra says the truth, 1/4 this izzy please! (wuhy)86.101.134.142 00:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Annoying And Deadly
Very good solution! Except maybe the damage could be a tad lower, like. - WeHeartKatamari 23:53, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Just thinking about what kind of shenanigans assassins can prompt with this skill at frightens me. I would say about  sounds balanced enough to me, considering this is going to be with your raw attack damage. -  WeHeartKatamari 23:53, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It'd be nice for a pressuresin, but pressuresins are kinda bad unless they're spamming unblockable SA chains. -- Armond Warblade 02:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily just for pressure, but a good "just in case" damage, too. The only thing that might be too good to be true is the 3 second recharge. For this I would bump it up to 4 seconds at least or else this is all that's going to be on 'sin bars for a while. - WeHeartKatamari 02:53, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh... what? Why does a sin need "just in case" damage? Sins are either gimmicks that do a full kill once every 25 seconds or so, pressuresins that spam SA, or spike support every 12 seconds or so. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 19:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Nuhuh! I don't know about you, but if I use all my attacks and the opponents still standing, I would sure as heck want that "just in case" damage at that moment :P - WeHeartKatamari 08:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Or you could back off and use that skill slot for a self-heal or run skill (especially if you're partner-ganking like a smart person). -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 18:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not meaning any offense here, but if everyone thought like you assassins would never have grown and developed new spikes/builds/combos that work well together. It's fun to find new tactics and skills that work together because there's always less a chance for you to be countered. - WeHeartKatamari 21:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, but a good player will be able to counter any assassin that keeps pushing after his chain has failed. There's not much you can do to counter an assassin withdrawing, though. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 00:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * While that is very true, the concentration of "good players" is slowly decreasing. I've been noticing quite a few more warriors using Frenzy and Dragon Slash in conjunction with other high energy skills in Ab recently... but isn't Frenzy's pretty much sole use lie on spike assassins' bars? As they are delivering a spike and intend to get out before they're noticed by anyone. I'm getting off topic though, basically what I'm saying is that'd be a very good lead attack to some players and it would see way more common use then it does now. - WeHeartKatamari 20:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ...I meant good as in top 100. Frenzy is a warrior's best IAS in PvP because it can be canceled. And, quite frankly, no one really cares about RA, AB, CM, or GvG below top 200 (hell, 101-200 is usually ignored). -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 02:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well then. You can be pro and hacker and all that jazz, but I'm just saying I'd rather have the extra damage in this skill. If you prefer just the bleeding over the bleeding and extra damage, then something's wrong with you xD - WeHeartKatamari 20:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You overestimate the skill involved in getting to top 200. By a lot. And yes, I prefer just bleeding over bleeding and +damage when it doesn't make the skill viable in balanced, because that's just gimmick fodder, and anything that adds extra damage to the game (which already has horridly high damage from autoattacks and horridly boring block/miss chances as a result) is bad. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 04:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Take a chill pill, man. I'm just saying this skill would be more used than it is now. Who said that Anet will make that the exact amount of damage for the skill? If you don't like it that's fine, but I haven't seen you make a suggestion on the page. And, I'm not that involved in GW, I play it sometimes during weekdays and for a couple hours every day during weekends...I'm not familiar with every single type of PvP and top 200s or whatever you were talking about. Call me "noob" or gimmick or whatever else you've got stored up in that noodle of yours, but I would use this skill because I'm not into spikes that you can use once every 20 seconds. I like long lasting 'sins that can survive in AB, which I mostly do. - WeHeartKatamari  [[Image:Image-User_WeHeartKatamari_sig.jpg|19px]] 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * My point is that making this skill more useful for srs bsns PvP would be a bad thing. AB balance is practically ignorable, as it's unorganized. Top 200 is the best 200 guilds in the world, which you can find on the Guild Ladder. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 17:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not everything is balanced, and the way the skill is now is just ridiculous. If they don't do something to it, it will never see much use. - WeHeartKatamari  [[Image:Image-User_WeHeartKatamari_sig.jpg|19px]] 21:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, not everything is balanced (in fact, few things are), and yeah, it is pretty horrible. However, the current meta doesn't need any more melee damage than it has now. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 21:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If we kept continuing with the colons we'd be off the page soon, so I reseted xD. And of course, Assassins have tons of damage and utility skills that can quickly put a foe down, but if you actually think about what they're supposed to do...that's it. Try and tank with an assassin, and you're toast. It (mostly) sticks to killing quickly and efficiently. And the whole point of metagame is just a fad that hits a profession like wildfire. Right now I believe it is Signasassins using Signet of Toxic Shock (like the HB Deadly Arts Sin and  Deadly Virulence Sin). Imo, the Deadly Arts line needs a good nerf or two because it was meant as a utility line but now can be used as your main attribute. All things considered, this would be a good skill because there's not many pressure 'sins right now, but this would certainly increase the popularity of them. - WeHeartKatamari  [[Image:Image-User_WeHeartKatamari_sig.jpg|19px]] 15:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine - let them do all the instakill they want in PvE, but keep it out of PvP. It's simply not fun to be watching your midline for incoming warriors and find yourself knocked down and dead with nothing you can do about it in the meantime, short having a partner monk with insane reflexes (and that's assuming the sin isn't using rigor mortis or some such). -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 16:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Then maybe some people should be aware of the fact that Assassins need knockdowns as much as their players need air and bring something to prevent/help you when in a knockdown! Something like Ward of Stability, Aura of Stability(If you have two Mo or /Mo players willing to help eachother out), or Fleeting Stability can easily do these things, and Fleeting Stability requires 5 points into its attribute to outlast its recharge. - WeHeartKatamari  [[Image:Image-User_WeHeartKatamari_sig.jpg|19px]] 20:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)