Talk:Game updates:November 2007

Discussions about updates: Please use the relevant update's talk page to discuss.

Perhaps Anet should buff some useless skills. They should reduce the recharge on Double Dragon to 5 seconds so it can compete with Searing Flames for example.

THANK YOU Anet. Finally I wont have to deal with stupid gimmicky assassin builds (can you say "Lolz Deadly Paradox Rofl Dancing Daggers Entangling Asp Signet Of Toxic Shock Lolz Shadow Form OWNED NOOB") This nerf is long overdue and I'm happy that Anet finally got around to nerfing it. Anyways, Deadly Paradox was always overpowered. Remember 50% fast cast for assassins back then? That's awfully generous considering that Mesmers have to put 15 in fast casting for that. Plus, for 50% recharge bonus, it required Mantra of Recovery, and to maintain that, you need 15 fast casting. How much deadly arts needed to maintain deadly paradox? 8 if im not mistaken. Oh, and Mantra of Recovery is elite.

I'm sorry if this isn't the right place for this, but I just wanted to give some feedback on the addition of HB maps to RA and TA. I personally don't think that these arenas are the place for maps demanding such strategy and cohesiveness, especially RA. Most other players, (those I've talked to ingame,) don't like it either. RA and TA were/are a place for straight up PvP competition, and the HB maps detract from that feel. It also makes it difficult to test out new builds, as anything without running skills or complete self-reliability is doomed. Once again, I'm sorry if this isn't the correct place, I just wanted to share my opinion. Thanks. Pianoman4590 21:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC) pianoman4590

It really does seem different with the maps coming in after the fun we've had during the Halloween celebration, but for the most part it isn't working on the same level that we're used to for RA and TA. I know others would like to see these removed, but they have their place and rather then put them in hero battles, why not create a new area that will have teams focus on territory? Also I think it would be a good idea in expanding the number of players from 4 to possibly 6 or 8. -Headlesshobbs-

I find that the HB maps add a level of complexity and team work that I enjoy in TA but in RA with no voice communication it takes away from the fun. You can't effectively work out a strategy on these maps in such sort time. I find that they fit in nicely in TA and force teams to come up with better team builds to be able to fight effectively on these maps. The normal spike teams just don't get it done. This allows for more fun for those of us who choose not to play gimmicked builds. I hope ANet removes these from RA and keeps them in TA. Xitium 17:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Andrew_Patrick <-- Andrew is responsible for PvP minus the skill balancing :) --RalphLikesKiwis 23:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank God they removed the HB maps. They were a real PITA for RA for several reasons already stated above. Many players were unable to grasp the concept and it led to unbelievable crappy games that took endless 10 minutes to lose. It really paid to simple leave it, because 10 minutes dishonor were easier to bear. --Xer 14:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

*** Anet.. I am an avid PvE player, I also understand the concept of PvP and how it was the one of cores to the creation of Guild Wars. What is up with the nerfs that has been happening latley, should we rethink the whole SEPARATE PvE vs PvP. When I make a character from the begining, it asksme if I want PvP or PvE. So why not split the nerfs into those separte classes. Your choosing to nerf certain skill based on PvP not PvE. I havent seen any complaints from the devlopers on builds that are to powerful in PvE. So instead of punishing us true PvE players becuase they find loop holes or great thinking on skill build on PvP, just nerf those skills in PVP. Come on, it can't be that much harder in programing code to differeniate the 2 portions of the game. Think of the possiblity of money that could be generated from seprate games...Usil951 19:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)Usil951

Nov. 13 Update
Could you PLEASE stop with the nerfing already? Either split PvE and PvP or just.. stop the nerfing for a while. When did Guild Wars become all about PvP? They whine and Anet just bends over and takes it. Bah! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trixor (talk &bull; contribs) 03:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * I don't care how much it effects PvE or PvP, But I am completely against destroying a class. Those sin skills WERE practically the best skills for assassins. Whats left now? Moebius? Gimme a break. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.233.54.238 (talk &bull; contribs) 05:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC).

Holy crap, Anet, can you stop nerfing every skill once someone sends you a boo-hoo story? I mean who thought up the Black Lotus nerf? It's completely useless now. I mean geez, put your nerf-happy crew in a closet 68.49.149.235 01:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow!! Pets don't leave exploitable corpses.....how long before players and foe will not leave exploitable corpses? This is a little extreme IMO - Cstrabley 02:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * WTF WTF WTF! YOU NERFED SHADOW PRISON ALREADY LEAVE MY FRIGGIN SIN ALONE! But Horns and Trampling? COME ON! Black lotus didn't need a nerf. Do you even know how to do your job? THINK! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.233.54.238 (talk &bull; contribs) 05:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC).

TX Anet I guess the SP sins are finally dead, and spiritway healers are in a tough situation with energy management now. Just add a small recharge to hammer bash so that thumpers don't create another gimmickway asap (and we know they will). GG &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 78.2.36.194 (talk &bull; contribs) 04:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC).


 * Great so the strongest most viable sin build is gone now. Sins are out of the meta. Oh and look a handful of great sin builds are also completely useless not. SP sins are not that overpower, they do as sins should. Destroying Assassins just to destroy the shadow prison is stupid and izzy needs to think before he nerfs those skills. Yet another nerf to soul reaping? Seriously come on. --96.233.54.238 03:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Go back to work on GW2 before you totally kill your playerbase, pet nerf wtf man???? if its a problem in pvp just make the pvp pets not leave corpses, if you need help programming hire me i'll help. It would go something like this "IF pet = dead and map = pvp then blow up pet. If pet = dead and map = pve then let me raise some undead out of the poor thing.  this is totally insane and unecessary.  I can only see one reason why you would even think to use this as a "test nerf" and that is so we would complain and you could graciously change it back so you can "prove" that you listen.  I'm starting a new guild "Dont Touch My [PVE]".  Utter insanity like this has only been seen in one other game: Star Wars Galaxies RIP - soulfoot &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soulfoot (talk &bull; contribs) 05:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC).

This is just totally insane. I'm having enough trouble with making new assassin builds with all the nerfs, and now black lotus...even impale has a 1 second activation? thats just insane....Anet, I normally support your nerfs, but the assassin is supposed to be a hit and run person, not one to stay in the battle with poor energy management, halfway nerfed attack skills, and poor healing. its just not the way. -Wandering Traveler &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.35.88.45 (talk &bull; contribs) 07:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC).

Thanks Izzy. You've rekindled my faith in you again. Thanks for killing the lolsins.(Keekles 05:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC))

As far as the Sin-related nerfs: a majority of these complaints simply show how narrow-minded alot of people are concerning Sins and I wouldn't hazard to guess that most of the people irked by this probably only know how to run a typical wiki-SP Sin. Nerfing of these overused builds is a good way to promote more creativity amongst the player-base if you ask me and I'm personally rather glad to see it happening. It's too bad riposte-users won't have many more SP Sins to slap around in AB anymore! XD -VerdugoJIN
 * The funny thing is, the Black Lotus nerf already killed SP sins, so why nerf Horns and Trampling Ox? EVERY existing viable sin build (decent moebius builds, read: NOT the pve/cm/ab ones running GPS, Moebius, DB and 5 defensive skills; Grenth's Grasp, AoD A/E's and, well, SP Sins) use either Horns or Trampling, so that update basically removed sins from the game, they could as well just entirely remove any sin skills except return and recall from the game and make sins a secondary profession only. Horns recently became something Twisting Fangs was before Impale got the Deep Wound buff: The only reason to play sins in PvP AT ALL. Nerfing a sins horns equals nerfing a warriors Eviscerate, what would you say about a 1..11 damage Eviscerate? I'm not whining because I'm the typical 08/15 SP sin player, I'm more the ranger kind of player, but killing an entire profession due to one overused (and not even remotely overpowered) build seems a bit weird. Ah well, we still have assa casters, so it's not the entire profession killed, we still have gimmicks to play with. lolz.. --81.210.151.254 13:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

For The Love Of GOD Anet, did you put the Factions development team on the skill nerfs? Because it's a crappy job once again. Nerf LoD, buff Woh only to take the buff off a week later. woohoo, what's next, a 10 energy cost and a 2 second activation? /clap congratulations on the killing of the fanbase, and the 'taking it up the ***' &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trixor (talk &bull; contribs) 13:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC).
 * Thanks Izzy, much better then the last change ^_^ Kypp Duron 16:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why take the exploitable corps away from pets? An explanation on where did that idea even came about would be nice. Do rangers' skills not get disabled any more, when their pet dies? What was the trade off with this pet nerf? Margretli 21:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Its to stop spiritway. Pet dies, raise bunch of low lvl minions for free energy on the backline. No more. Lord of all tyria 21:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The pet nerf doesn't just effect PvP. Almost every traditional group that does DoA Quads in HM, uses the necro with a pet to NT across the gate to save the party from a total wipe when the bad guys spawn on top of your party. Nothing worse then a few hours in DoA and you get wiped because in room 2 of Foundry the spawns are 90% of the time bad. But I guess everyone who has worked hard at this game and who attempts to get better and play multipule professions so they can do what ever is needed to play and beat the so called elite areas. Should just load Ursan Blessing on their bar and join the groups that are from the Xbox generation. "He/She who mashes buttons fastest wins!!" The more I look at it. It seems like ANET wants everyone to be equal. Be it the hardcore gamer who plays 4-6 hours everyday and has bought multipule accounts and character slots. To the once a week for an hour player. They both desever the same chance to reach the same goals and obtain the same things in ANETS eyes. An example is Ursan Blessing, the most powerful PvE skill in the game. It allows the casual players to beat UW/FoW/DoA/Deep/Urgoz/ToPK/Slavers in half the time traditonal builds take. No nerfs there yet, and probably won't be. Because Ursan lets bad and lazy players do the things hardcore players and players who want to not only play but be good at GW do. Guess it's just frustrating. In a game thats dying content wise because of GW2 release soon. No time to fix bugs and errors or new content but there is always time to nerf skills because some players are to lazy to find out how to beat the builds being used against them. But the game will go on and I'll continue to play it. Just a little let down by some of the decisions that are made in this game at times. But oh well no matter how bad it gets it will still be better then the other options out there... Have a wonderful day!!! Green Lantern
 * Guild Wars isn't supposed to be about "working hard", but unfortunately PvP is designed like that. The Guild Wars box lied when it said it was a skill game, not grinding.

Can WE PLEASE have some sort of REASON for the pet nerf. While of course we will adapt we pvers allways do. The question remains why SHOULD ALLWAYS WE HAVE TO.

OMG leave my pets alone. Why nerf pets? What's the use of letting us use them at all? Next you will just take them away completely. One of the reasons why I hate reading the Skills updates is because it always seems to be about the PVP'rs. Cry me another long and winding river. You're killing the fun for the PvE people. Why bother creating a game for us anymore? Maybe you should just make separate editions for the two sides of this game. Maybe I should just stop playing it period. It's sad that you cater to the pvp'ers when alot of your income is brought in from the pve side. If we complained enough would you actually listen? And what's with the EW nerf? GAH! Morgase 02:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I do so love having to spend the first 30 minutes of my PvE group's game night coming up with new builds to work around the changes that ANet puts into place to satisfy the PvPers. Obviously ANet is having difficulty satisfying both types of players with one game. The solution most companies come up with when they need to serve two markets is two products. Perhaps ANet should think about that. When you try to do everything for everybody you end up doing everything poorly. Pick a community and satisfy it please. 72.188.3.126 02:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

These nerfs are great, really necessary EXCEPT for the pet one, in my opinion, sway is already dead isn't it? Mango 02:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I could understand why to nerf assasins, but since when did "nerf" become a synonym of "destroy"? Balashi 16:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok I have been playing this game almost for day one (30 months and almost 8000 hours) and I guess its time to bitch. I would love to know why it that every time a few cry baby PVPers cant figure out how to defeat a build ANET caves in and nerfs skills. In all the time I have been playing I have watched hundreds of PVE players stop playing because of crap like these nerfs. I get the feeling that ANET has no PVE players on staff and their PVP players just have no clue how to make a build that can counter a good build without a skill nerf.
 * Correct, I also am mostly PvE player (8 months now, with 20 character slots yes) and I'm about to bail the game. Ofcourse it doesn't help to not get a reply on a support ticket... yeah, it got forwarded to the dev team, and then?? I thought I made some plausible solutions to any pet problem if there REALLY is any. Please some consistency ANet; pets are fleshy creatures hence should make exploitable corpse. Maybe make exploited corpses take longer time to res, or let pets not leave corpses if they die within 15 seconds after being ressed (would make sense?) Come ON, it's a game, we like to have fun, and indeed if this pet thing is a problem in PvP then why not only make this nerf effective ONLY IN PVP? Or doesn't it matter in PvE anymore now that we have Ursan Blessing? I mean, it's become a requirement for elite missions to be a BEAR.... That's just sooo lame. Guild Wars becomes Pelt Wars? What's the point of capping skills and fixing up builds if Ursan Blessing just wraps it all up? Come ON. Please make that usuable only in the far shiverpeaks or so, and ban it from every other area. It's not like having all these professions makes a lot of sense if we can win the game doing the bear stuff on every character, all the time.... In fact I think ANet took a wrong turn overall with the whole GW:EN thing and the tedious grinding you have to do to get enough rep points to buy really expensive armor (I'm fine with having to pay loads, but that reputation point thing... It consumes so much time - I love to play, but I have a life, ok?). Ok my rant is taking long enough. Seems I'm going to spend more time on my other hobbies, gg Anet! - Pup

While all this nerfing is going on PVE players are dropping the game because the poor drop rates make it a huge battle for new players to get the basic armor and weapons, and veterans of the game that don’t ebay have to do the grind to get titles, and armor upgrades. ( and gee I wonder why there is a huge market for that in the first place )
 * Poor drop rates for basic materials? What are you on? I must have around a combined total of 2-3 thousand of iron, cloth, and hide across my 7 characters. Some of them have prestige armor and all of them could afford max basic armor as soon as it was available, with their own resources. By the way, I don't farm. You don't have to get titles and there's no advantage to getting prestige armor, so don't bitch that optional, vanity items are difficult to get. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 13:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Anet look, the impale/expose nerfs were in order, but the others were either unnessary or way to much. Ill start with black lotus, Indeed it deserved the energy nerf but makeing it a conditional lead attack really destroyed it. turn it back to an off hand same as befor only this time make it give less energy. Trampling/Horns = WTF. they dealt good damage, not way too much but a good amount, and this was in no way over powered because they were dual attacks, which means that you have to go through 2 way underpowered skills to hit with them, so give them their damage back (trampling only needs most of it back). those who think i am a narowminded SP sin can chew on this, i don't even have SP unlocked on my account, But the nerf to these skills destroyed most of my builds so i decided to make a stink about it. Pet nerf= well if my pets no longer leave exploitable corpses then i demand the ability to tame HellHounds (the first monsters you fight in EotN) because they are a skeletal dog and would not leave an exploitable corpse anyway. Kraken 18:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Balt faction in AB
Was the change from 25 Balt faction for a kill changed to 10 on purpose? Or was the 25 points a mistake to begin with? Seriously slow to get 3k points to open elites now.--Shaia 23:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm 99% sure that its always been 10 balth faction in AB. Xitium 15:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Must have been a mistake then :) Oh well, 25 points was nice. --Shaia 20:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)