Talk:Tyria (world)

Map Image Incorrect
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420217&page=14 If you look at the above link, you will find that the map is inproportional. The map on the article was also taken from the same thread. Soulwar 00:22, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm taking the map away. It is an incorrect and unofficial map. Soulwar 22:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * From my point of view, it's not intended to be authoratative, just illustrative of approximate locations. My opinion is that the current map, or an alternate one that is more proportionally correct, should remain as an illustrative tool - provided the label is changed to more clearly state that it illustrates approximate relative locations of the various campaign maps to each other. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Tyria (the world)
To address off the inevitable questions on this ... back in Feb 2006 (shortly before the release of Factions), PanSola was in Lion's Arch and asked Gaile Gray (Community Relations Manager for ArenaNet) to clarify the name of the world. The answer is about halfway down this log of her replies where she says:
 * Gaile Gray: Tyria is, confusingly I know, the name of the continent and the world.

So it is official from ArenaNet that the world and the continent of Tyria share the same name. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:59, 27 February 2007 (EST)


 * What is the black-brown island North of the Maguuma Jungle and West of the Verdant Cascades anyway?

The map to the bottom right is "incorrect" though it is fan made because first off Jatoro Musagi (In game NPC at Kodlonu Hamlet in Nightfall) reports that he is from the South West not South. The above map on right looks to be proper based on in game lore.

I have edited this page many times citing this fact but people keep changing it. If the map exists as fan made based on lore might as well have it correct as possible.

- Goddess Hebe
 * Yes, I know, I've reverted your edit several times, because neither map should be taken as accurate. Also, don't leave comments on the main pages, put them only on the talk pages. I have changed your last edit and moved it to a new Notes section. -- Azazel the Assassin/ talk 10:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So, did arena net purposefully name both the world and continent the same thing from the getgo as their original idea, or was it due to some issue and they just decided to leave it (such as naming the original Prophecies map Tyria, as the entire world, before they decided to make a larger world)? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 13:09, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems to be the later, but it's unsure. -- Konig / talk 19:02, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Tyria 250 years on
Look at this pic, and also the one on the front of PC Gamer... Tyria looks like it's changed a bit after 250 years, to say the least. From what I can see, the Shiverpeaks have defrosted, Ascalon has recovered from the Searing, bits of Kryta and Maguuma have frozen, along with most of Kourna. --Santax 05:12, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
 * yeah I noticed this myself when first seeing the picture. Alot could of happend in 250 years, tyria will have most likely changed after such a long time --[[Image:User Wacked 1 Link Sprite.gif]]  Wacked 1  05:23, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Global Warming. :) There was a thread about this on Guru a month or so ago. Sirocco 08:26, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
 * I think you're looking at it wrong, um.... er... I'll have to do some edits.. - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 09:51, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
 * yep, Ascalon isn't even in the picture. [[image:User FireFox Gw2ed.jpg|200px]][[image:tyred.jpg|200px]] - FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.png]] 16:29, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

Is this information from the guys at Anet?
Just out of curiosity as it seems to be. However, certain portions of the information such as the Forgotten being created by an older pantheon of Gods could easily be speculation. So..Yes? No? Gmr Leon 17:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is speculation, but it has good backing. Tyria is the first world created by the current pantheon, there are worlds confirmed to be older than Tyria, the Forgotten were summoned to Tyria and not created there, so therefore they came from an older world. If they came from an older world, then they were created by an older pantheon. --Santax (talk · contribs) 09:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You have a good point there, I just had a slight of hope that Anet may have decided to insert bits of lore on to the official wiki. That way if they modify older pieces they need only update it on here rather than reprint the Manuscripts with the newly altered information. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on it being speculation though Santax. Gmr Leon 17:15, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Demography
Just a heads-up to the removal of the Mursaat. It is unknown as to whether they were one of the first races on Tyria, so that information was inaccurate. Gmr Leon 22:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually..I just read that section in its entirety, and should it even remain there? It's rather vague and contains many misspelled words. Gmr Leon 01:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

History Errors
This is incorrect: it states that Abbaddon introduced magic. It is official lore that at least the 5 gods introduced magic. I'm sure this should be changed. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:198.174.36.158 (talk).
 * The lore that says the 5 gods gave magic was a "cover up" which was clarified with Nightfall's release. What happened is that Abaddon gave magic too freely, which caused the war, and he disagreed with limiting it (or something of the like) and he was punished for his "rebellion" - which was him being put into the Realm of Torment. Along with that, the 5 other gods removed all knowledge of the 6th god - Abaddon - from the world of Tyria. This knowledge was pulled from the Japanese Manual/site or something, if I remember correctly. -- Azazel the Assassin/ talk 22:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Which time period would this be referencing?
This page seems to be describing a mix of Guild Wars 2, Eye of the North, and original guild wars campaigns time periods, which time period do you think the world should be described in?Tambora 18:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As of now, the GW1 timeline should be spoken about from an EotN standpoint or even just after it, since that is the 'current time' in terms of the actual game. Although that's just my oppinion, I'm not an official when it comes to wiki policy. Silavor [[Image:UserSilavorSigIcon.png]] 04:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The page is written from a standpoint of just after the end of Eye of the North. --Santax (talk · contribs) 12:10, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Top Right Volcano Island
Hmm, wonder what that could be? Sister to the ring of fire perhaps?
 * Belt of Fire. :P -- Nei l2250   ,    Render Lord User Neil2250 sig icon5.jpg 13:05, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

a thought
seeing as there is a body of water north of Tyria (continent) and assuming there is one o nthe other side of Magguma jungle would it not be entirly possible to take a VEERY long boat ride around them to reach Cantha--99.19.116.228 20:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where does it say there is a body of water north of Tyria and on the west (I assume you mean west by "on the other side" of the maguuma? And as for the traveling (would probably be both walking and boat riding), it would depend on if Tyria is a globe and not a flat world. Which is still unknown (though implications say it is a globe). -- Azazel the Assassin/ talk 22:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

we know there is water north of tyria(north of Kryta) but we dont know if its open or if its blocked by somthing also i cant remember were but i do know someoen said it was round like a globe, but also he means there may MAY be a sea or somthign on the other side of magguma, seeing as theres ALOT of Tyria yet to be uncovered (this leads to what may be an explorers expansion were we get to see a WHOLE new totaly unctouched part of Tyria explain that thoguht later but makes a little sense providing that the water north of Kryta is open to the sea/ocean as for Magguma i belive its COMPLETELY under centaur control making it a VERY risky trip to march though it to see if there is a coastline on the other side(though we can assume there is unless its one giant landmass--Lord randy taylor 20:49, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i agree with randy -- adrin [[Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png]] 21:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

see im nto as crazy as everybody thinks--Lord randy taylor 21:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Regarding "as for Magguma i belive its COMPLETELY under centaur control" That is a tricky subject. The Maguuma and Shiverpeak/Modniir centaurs look very similar - almost the same looks, just different armor for the most part. So it is hard to say if they originate from the Shiverpeaks, or the Maguuma, or from Elona. What is known is that in GW2, the centaurs are getting pushed further and further west. What is also seemingly prevailant is that Kryta is former Tengu territory. It is possible Kryta was once both Centaur and Tengu territory, until the Humans pushed them out. -- Azazel the Assassin/ talk 21:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

where the centaurs are from means little in this matter but that they hold the jungles WEST of kryta meanign Magguma, and that there is possibly water on the other side of Magguma and that the KNOWN body of water north of Kryta(look at the map) may border a larger body of water capable of leading to other continents and essentily Cantha, but there are 3 bodies of water north of kryta, one in North kryta province wich we know to be a lake, the great saltwater lake knows as Giants Basin wich beign saltwater must have a conection to the open sea via the river north of it ending in a delta therefore open water beyond Kryta is assured but water west of tyria bordering Magguma has yet to be determined--Lord randy taylor 22:05, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, to the part of your statement that I quoted, where centaurs originate does matter. You said the west of the Maguuma would be filled with centaurs - if the centaurs come from the east, that is not likely to be the case. Also, Tyria!= Inland waters could be saltwater in Tyria for all we know. Just like how Seas and Oceans can be fresh water for all we know. -- Azazel the Assassin/ talk 22:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

let me rephrase Magguma is filled with the centaurs that are there now as in the oens currently inhabiting it, and the Giants basin has access to a ocean--Lord randy taylor 22:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC) also provided that the water north of kryta (the larger one yet to be named) not giants basin could wrap around and may be the body of water that forms a coast for maguma not saying it is buy it could be, and we arent talking baout the origin of thoose centuars but we know they hold msot if not all of the farreaches of maguma jungle, the centuars in conrtol of Maguma are ALREADY THERE, so there origin in this matter means litle, this is about the unknown reaches of the map and what lies there, i think that the Jungle continues for a little bit then goes into a coast line with access to the seas of Tyria being the Unending Ocean--Lord randy taylor 22:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

unknown Tyria(world)
continue speculation on whats outside what we know of Tyria post what you think is there show logic in it and Azazel no origin of Centaurs here. I think that beyond Magumma is water conected to the bay north of Kryta(beyond Giants basin) and that that water holds a route of p[ossible saftey to Cantha and anything in between on the other side of the world, now knowing Tyria as a whole is a shpere we can assume Far shiverpeaks aere close to the northern pole, and that Cantha is either in the middle or down south now think if EoTn introduced us to the polar regions then the water north of Kryta( lets refer to it as the Unknown seas for the time being) is going to lead south aroudn the other side of Tyria, so spin aroudn and weve got unknown Tyria that wich has yet to be put in to the game, unknown continnts, dangers, and whatever lies there, potential access lies through the Unknown sea(the bay north of Kryta with the volcanic Isle in it) so if this is the case we may have a route to Cantha( of which im sure the Canthan story involves a rebellion agaistn the tyranical emperor jsut a guess) and Elona(again pockets of resistance that will involve the story) btu i belive that part of the story in GW2 will partly involve exploration of the other side of Tyria (the oposite hemisphere) if it indeed esists--Lord randy taylor 23:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Clean up?
I have read the article and I dont know why this article needs a clean up. I find It rather good and think of putting it to the feature project page. Please tell me why this page needs a clean up--Wysth 20:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As per here, articles, apparently, are not to be written from an in-game view. Though it is interesting as I wrote the rewritten version of this article, the Lore article, the Kurzick, Luxon, and other articles with an in-game view in mind. I still do not see the issue: "we are not here to advertize and make things more interesting though, we are here to document the game" - why not both? I suppose the discussion should be there, though, not here (keep it in one place). -- Konig/ talk 21:37, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok I left a post on that page Also I'm gonna propose it to be featured.--Wysth 19:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Why the hell are we putting future speculation in a gw article that's about gw1 not gw2? People are going to be confused. I was and still am! I demand a rewrite! LOL j/k. No, seriously, It needs to be updated before a showing and with showing soon. Someone will have to hurry. Wish I could rewrite it, but i'm not really a good writer and not that easy to determine what's speculation/gw2 and what's actual for gw1. I think it needs to be separated asap. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 19:24, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Map
Currently we have two images that are essentially the same on this page, I think we should choose one to leave room for the article to be illustrated perhaps by other, more useful things. When I first added the map I chose to use the top one because it is both useful as a reference and pleasing to the eye, whilst the other is mainly just eye-candy. But I thought I'd get some second opinions here before removing it. --Santax (talk · contribs) 14:49, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This fan-created version is my favorite and the only one on this wiki that shows all three continents, so keep it! Anet could allow players to expand the map (aka google maps) by clicking the ship icon to expand to "Global map", then select any continent to revert back to original continental veiw/regional view. ^_^ --Falconeye 01:53, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The one Santax talked about removing has already been removed. And that one wasn't even accurate to lore. -- Konig / talk 02:25, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Flat or globe
The article states that "It is unknown if the planet is flat or a globe, although evidence suggests that Tyria is indeed a globe." To me, that makes no sense at all. Since there's no reason to think any such thing as a 'flat world' actually exists at all, this sentence is useless. It's like saying the planet isn't made out of rainbows and unicorn tears. Of course it isn't. Why would it be? More importantly, since there's 'evidence' that Tyria is a globe, why state the flat world thing at all? Unless someone can cite a reliable source that says ANet isn't sure about Tyria being flat or a globe, I'm going to remove this piece of noninformation. 83.161.196.159 18:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I would say go ahead and remove it since I have never heard of anything about it. It's usually accepted even in the fantasy world that planets are globes, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Mechanics in GW1 doesn't indicate either way but lore suggests that it is a globe. -- Lania Elderfire 19:30, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)This is a fantasy world, so Tyria could be flat, even if it doesn't make sense when putting science behind it. Tyria could very much be flat, a sphere, or any other shape that the creators (i.e., the developers) want it to be, why? Because it is fiction - i.e., not real. Take the Realm of Torment - that clearly isn't spherical, and is called a realm - Tyria too is called a realm by some. So Tyria very may well be flat, same goes for the Rift. It could also be some other shape aside from sphere - saying it is a globe because there is no evidence to support it not being a globe is incorrect. And it should be noted that we don't know what Tyria is. -- Konig / talk 19:32, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a lot of evidence to say that it is a globe rather than any other shape. The manuscript book of the eye of the north says "... scattered across the globe," and minister cho's estate description says "His menagerie of exotic animals from across the globe...", and the strongest of all, the one of the actual logos for guildwars 2 has a globe.  Plus, in GW2 there is going to be night/day cycle, which wouldn't make sense in a flat world. The fact that they integrated the word globe in the game, seems to also suggest that it is what Anet intended Tyria to be. -- Lania Elderfire 20:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Works for me, I'll remove the sentence. Since I'm pretty sure people will either assume it's a globe, or not care about it at all, I suggest not mentioning the shape at all. Konig, what you said made some sense, so I guess it wasn't that useless a sentence to begin with. But Lania provided enough evidence for it being a globe, so there we go. Thanks guys 83.161.196.159 21:02, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, why does everyone think the original GW2 logo is a globe? It's just the continent of Tyria in a circle - if that is the globe version of Tyria (world), then Elona and Cantha isn't on the same world as Tyria (continent). That's actually the weakest argument, and isn't evidence in any way. And a night/day cycle could make sense in a flat world - people made it make sense long before Earth was realized to be round. And the use of globe could be an "oversight" hence why it isn't known but suggested - there's a difference, mind you. The point of the sentence was to make note that it isn't known to be a sphere, but is suggested to be such. -- Konig / talk 21:14, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Everyone assumes the logo is a globe because the shading on the circle suggests a three dimensional aspect on the logo. if it was flat it would just be a circle without any shading to show that it only has 2 dimensions, which suggest that there was a design by Anet that world is at least some kind of spherical shape.  The continent of cantha and elona aren't on the logo because I don't think it's a to-scale, logo; many logos commercial also don't show things to scale either. (For example the AT&T logo, if people are asked what the sphere represents, most people say that it represents the world, despite the fact that it is a translucent sphere with horizontal stripes with no resemblance to earth.) Also if it was possible that Tyria is flat, then why aren't there any oversights on Anet's side to elude to the fact that it's flat.  The only possible "oversights" as you say are the ones that suggest that it is not flat.  Also considering sociological aspects, unless someone is mentally unstable or completely sheltered, no-one would assume that the world would be flat, given descriptions of the world that are earth-like such as, gravity, water, oceans, mountains, blue skies, etc which are characteristics of Tyria.  Several hundred years ago that was different in Europe, and now many fantasy settings tend to build the world upon assumed constants and facts that are generally "known" in the modern world, or else authors would have to explain too many mundane details that would make the story un-enjoyable to read. And like 83 says, almost no one would cares and most people would assume that is a globe. -- Lania Elderfire 22:09, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Another point that supports the globe version is the presence of a (vissible) horizon on some maps (cantha, istani shores etc.) -- Ellisia [[Image:User_Ellisia_al_Signiature.jpg‎‎|15px|talk]] 22:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also another small point. The Sun and Moon Shield depicts a moon in a crescent-shape lunar eclipse.  If the people of Tyria created the shield, then it would make sense that they observed a moon like this, even though there isn't one in the game except Halloween because there is no day/night cycle.  This would be the same kind of lunar eclipse we observe on earth and that shape can't be made unless the planet causing the eclipse was a sphere. Also for some lolz -- Lania Elderfire 23:17, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * They could have made it a triangle shape or some weird shape. *chuckles* . We only visit certain places and hard to show the "shape", when you'd see "flat maps". I can see confusion easily. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 11:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What about this ? "But some of my clan decided to escape the only way we knew how, by digging a tunnel to the other side of the world!" Envoy of the Dredge quest. It appears Tyria doesn't have a hot center. :) User MadSkillz1o1 sig2.PNG MadSkillz1o1 18:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That might not be a literal straight down, it could be "we dug deep then made a turn and ended up digging under the Unending Ocean into a continent believed to be on the other side of the planet, though it may not be" and still be the same, really. It's only speaking in context of how much the NPC knows, not what the world really is. It would be like going back in time and asking Julius Caesar if the world is flat or a globe - he'd say flat, but it clearly isn't. -- Konig / talk 19:29, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. And the JC analogy sucked :P sorry ^^ User MadSkillz1o1 sig2.PNG MadSkillz1o1 21:42, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Why is the world named after Tyria?
Supposedly, humans appeared on Cantha first, so why do they call the world Tyria? --72.194.93.39 06:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Speaking from an out-of-game view, the devs probably didn't think of "world" and "continent" differences when making the game, so they used Tyria for both, and didn't feel like retconning one of the two. From a lore/in-game view, it was probably that the continent was named after the world for some reason. Or it was "the unnamed continent" at first then became Tyria. -- Konig / talk 06:54, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Number vs amount vs more
Is there a source that definitely shows more continents exist? In any case, number serves in both cases, amount is always incorrect and more is incorrect if no other continents exist. I doubt Arenanet has said no other continents exist and would just make a new one if they released a sequel, but they aren't going to release any further sequels. If there is more information on these unexplored continents, it should be added, preferably with a source. Also, Kaisha, you have already violated GWW:1RV once, don't do it again, especially when you are incorrect and acting purely on your own. Misery  14:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC) implies additional land further north than the map, I would say, unless they mean looping around to cantha or something. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 13:17, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, are the continents unexplored or undiscovered? Misery  14:09, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * In case anyone was confused with the grammar on numbers vs amounts, amounts is used as a measure of the whole (in this context as square miles), where numbers as a measure of predefined units. Since we don't measure continents as square miles but rather as units, amounts is wrong to use, and numbers was correct.  For example: The number of continents on earth is 7. The amount of square miles of all the continents is 40 million square miles. This is my interpretation of the grammar rules but since I'm not an English graduate I could be wrong.  Also other continents don't seem to be defined as anything whether they are unexplored, undiscovered, or anything; so it's basically an unknown it seems like... :-/ So Tyria could just be 3 continents but who knows? I think anet is ambiguous on the language because they want to release more sequels as new continents... probably... -- Lania Elderfire 14:55, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * In the manual for Eye of the north it says "Tyria and even more continents further north" when regarding the Xunlai's reach. Now, this could mean the Far Shiverpeaks and (unlikely) the Charr Homelands, or this could be some land further north. Also, the maps do not finish, and it is unlikely that what we see of Cantha connects to the top of Tyria (not without a lot of land between anyways), and usually maps end with water to show that it literally is the end. Whether the land which goes off the maps lead to new continents or just expansions of the existing continents is unknown, however. Also, too us the other continents, if there are any, are undiscovered, but in lore this may not be the case. Seeing how Utopia was to take place elsewhere, it's bound that there were at least more planned, but it can't be definite that the unknown continent which Utopia would of taken place on even exists in canon lore. -- Konig / talk 16:14, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Santax just removed the contentious information, which might be the best way to deal with it. Contintents are a pretty poorly defined concept anyway. I think being precise might have been a little ludicrous, something like "There are three continents which have featured in the game so far, Tyria, Cantha and Elona. The existence of other continents has been hinted at within lore." When I asked Santax he mentioned Janthir, which appears to actually be an island rather than a continent, and the unknown continent south of Cantha where humans are supposed to have originated from, but very little information is available. Misery  16:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding the Xunlai thing, Tyria would encompass everything on the new prophecies map, wouldn't it? Including the Far Shiverpeaks.  "Tyria and other continents farther north"

Partial-rv
I see parts of my mini-rewrite were reverted recently, which imo leaves those parts of the article badly written and in parts inaccurate. So before I revert, I better explain my reasoning behind the parts of the edit that were reverted: Hope this helps, I'll revert in a while if there's no opposition here. --Santax (talk · contribs) 18:07, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sapience implies sentience, so the statement of both is not necessary.
 * The word "human" is always decapitalised, even in the context of GW1.
 * Listing virtually every sapient race in Tyria is not necessary. It reads badly, and the phrase "among others" covers any species that are not explicitly written.
 * Stating that the Forgotten still exist in the Mists is important because not doing so implies that they are completely extinct, which is certainly not the case. The article now currently reads "...sailed to the Crystal Sea, which would eventually become their final resting place"', which is incorrect.
 * Abaddon is usually referred to as the god of water and secrets in-game, with the element being listed before his other attribute. Minor, but unusual that you found it worth reverting.
 * It's not believed that Abaddon's defeat created the desert, it's confirmed (there is also another source somewhere but I forget where exactly). Additionally, it's not necessary to state that the Crystal Desert and the Desolation were created that day, as the Desolation is technically part of the Crystal Desert.
 * The paragraph on Elona is just...bad. It's full of run-on sentences, is often very vague, at one point seems to link to the page on Guild Wars Nightfall and has bad capitalisation (The Elon as opposed to the Elon). Which is why I rewrote it. It was stated here that I had added "spoilers and material from GW2", however, looking through what was reverted, I had added nothing that was not already stated in the paragraph.
 * Finally, I'm not sure why the gw2w template was removed at all.
 * I'd say go ahead and go nuts with the article, but since I'm not a sysop, I can't just tell you to ignore policy. -- Lania Elderfire 18:21, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Seeing as he hasn't reverted, he is still free to revert. At the moment, Kaisha reverted Santax's edit, so go nuts, especially as you have reasons. In fact according to Kaisha's edit summary, she only meant to re-add the removed races. Misery  19:06, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually I fixed the article as I said I would. Santax's wording had spoilers and misleading information from the games. Not to mention speculation. Also, I did see many run-on sentences in that version as well. However, I would like to see where it says "Abaddon defeated two gods" (shorter than what was said). As I have not seen anything that depicts that he had. That being an example. I could list more as to what was wrong with several paragraphs that he wrote, which was worse. If you don't like current paragraphs, you can just change it up a little. Not a lot, as I had seen much speculation, with the good bit of changes that it was. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 20:08, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * For the "Abaddon defeated two gods" - he didn't defeat two gods, he had the ability to fight and win against two gods. This is from the Taiwan official site that had lore on Abaddon for a while. -- Konig / talk 04:41, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. That's why I was asking Santax. As it was listed in his version that Abaddon had defeated two gods. To me, that's speculation and he had that among other things in his version that he wants to revert back to. Also, it is necessary to add in both Crystal Desert and Desolation that was created as from what I have seen (doing a few quests in both) it's fact. I guess one wants to leave out one as to me that's not sticking to the lore quite so much as the way it is now. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 04:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding the Crystal Desert, for now yes both should be included, however it is hinted that the Desolation is actually a sub-region of the Crystal Desert (much like the fact that the Tarnished Coast is a sub-region of the Maguuma Jungle or that the Far, Northern, and Southern Shiverpeaks are sub-regions of the Shiverpeak Mountains). I'd say before just removing things as outright speculation, ask for a confirmation (I, for one, know a fair amount, there's others as well of course), as that is what Erasculio did with the Abaddon page which then lead to a bunch of mishap. Just because you don't know a fact, even if your as interested in lore as myself, doesn't mean a fact slips past you. Interesting fact: Kaisha's comment above was 666 characters long. 0.o -- Konig / talk 05:16, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooo, creepy. *grins* True, but I do try to keep up with as much of the lore as I can in game and from them as well. I am interested in the book that they have to come out. I feel it might help as well. I don't think we should remove several things and that's why I replaced back the old paragraph, because despite it's run-ons - It had more information than the new one and It didn't have spoilers, nor was written in a way to make people loose interest in the game, because they already "know" whats happened. As that was the way it was written - more so past like too. That to me is not what some of these pages should have. If they want to know all that information. Get them to play the game, not enough information for them to not want to play. It'd be about like me giving a synapse to a movie or a book and be enough information to draw people away. To me, that's what Santax's version was and was very much distasteful. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 05:24, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You know, what matters is the opinion of the consensus as far as the purpose of the article is concerned. As of now, it doesn't seem that your views match the consensus, Kaisha.  I suggest doing edits like these *after* consensus has been reached to avoid problems. Re-purposing an article with a set purpose by other wiki-users without discussion generally causes issues.  -- Lania Elderfire 06:37, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, so you're okay with false information being added like "defeating two gods" and removing some cannon information such as the Crystal Desert being formed as well as the Desolation? So far, I don't see a consensus at all on anything. Just someone suggesting to place back false information. While, I'm asking for the facts of that information. No issue and I'd recommend you not make it into one. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 06:48, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I didn't remove anything about the Crystal Desert being formed, I'm not sure where you got that from. Secondly, I did a lot more to the article than add something about Abaddon defeating two gods (which I left out of the bullet points above because I couldn't source it) - that seems to be the only thing you can take issue with, in which case a compromise could be reached and you could just change that bit. The very fact that the article was featured implied that the community saw that it was fine as it is, so it is odd that you made so many edits after it was featured. I'm not sure why you keep saying my version was speculative because most of it was just rewording your version. --Santax (talk · contribs) 07:20, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay a few edits. here I'll show you the additions you put in that were to me speculation, etc.

From: History your last edit "For years, the humans prospered as the favoured servants of the Gods, their loyalty rewarded with cities and power" and " whose loyalty to the entire pantheon and unwillingness to fight humans had already exiled them from civilization." were totally your words, not any place I can find that information. From: History "Farmers must also contend with Naga and Yetis, making even this seemingly tranquil island a difficult place to live." Um, how do we all know if those species make it a difficult place to live? From: History "Back on the continent, Kourna was once famed for the power of its military, although the death of its Warmarshal and the coming of Nightfall have put an end to this, and the formerly proud nation of Kourna will spend quite some time recovering and restructuring" Spoiler is that whole sentence. No one who has finished or gotten through Night fall, would know if Varash dies or not. From: History ", and forming the Crystal Desert" - you removed "the Desolation" From: History "East of Vabbi is the Desolation, the area of the Crystal Desert where the gods struck the final blow against Abaddon," - Also that does not make sense - Desolation is Nightfall - Crystal Desert is Tyria, but both formed at the same time. two should been together as they are. Last but not least From: History "During Nightfall, the arrival of demons in the Desolation corrupted the land, which is now ruled by the undead desert lord Palawa Joko." Um, those who have not finished night fall would not know that. Spoiler. Leave it as the night fall is towards beginning, not at the end. It'd be like me spoiling a movie for you telling you the ending of it all. See my points now? Kaisha  07:44, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, I did very little editing, removing spoilers and speculation - to keep from "spoiling" the new comers. You did a lot more than me and I added back the non-speculation version and fixed the run-on sentences that you had a problem with. Not much was changed from when it was featured to when you changed up the majority over a little bit here and there. So, it's fixed. Leave it, not adding in speculation or spoilers, etc. Thank you. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 07:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding the purpose of the article: It should describe the world - geography and generic history, but so little of the history as to not copy Lore or the three "History of _____" articles. The thing to get a consensus on, imo, is whether to have it contain spoilers or not. But then again, if Eye of the North events are happening, then all the other games have, and they need to be spoken of in the past tense, else you're speaking of 3 different time frames all in the present tense, which would be grammatically incorrect.
 * As for Kaisha's "speculation" comments: While it hasn't been pointblank stated, it is obvious that humans are the favored race as they have helped humanity more often than any other race, even their personal wardens and the most devout race. For the Farmers thing, During [{Day of the Tengu]] Naga attack the people, during the Dragon Festival, Naga attacked the people, during the quest Appearance of the Naga it is hinted that the Naga could become a threat. For the Yeti, it is said that they hardly come into the human populas, but is a major threat to the Tengu and it is implied to be the same as the Naga and the Sensali. The Kourna line change is fine, since it is spoiler, though I personally don't mind as long as spoiler tags are put up. Regarding the Crystal Desert/Desolation, again it is implied, almost point-blank stated, that the Desolation is part of the Crystal Desert, so just saying Crystal Desert would also mean the Desolation, and the second line even states the Desolation is part of the Crystal Desert. -- Konig / talk 13:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well as far as spoilers go, " Across the sea on the body of water is Kourna, a savannah land once ruled by a War-marshal and is now left in chaos from the events of Nightfall." is a spoiler, and you felt comfortable leaving that in. Just saying. --Santax (talk · contribs) 15:51, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Put a spoiler tag on it. The article describes tyria. If we remove anything that can possibly be a spoiler the article would be pretty bare and pointless. Almost all the information here you end up learning as you play the game, like with the forgotten you won't learn until the crystal desert, and they play an important part of the story there.  Similarly the player won't even know about the existence of margonites well into the nightfall campaign.  Removing every possible spoiler just isn't possible.-- Lania Elderfire 18:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Instead of Spoiler tagging the article, which is a bad eye sore imo on some articles and for like this, I don't much care for. How about the following for that line instead? -> Across the sea on the body of water is Kourna, a savannah land ruled by a War-marshal.   Would this be spoiler still?  Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 20:43, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * But the issue remains that there are many many spoilers which are not that big of spoilers. Things like Varesh's death is a big spoiler, but things like the Forgotten remaining in the Realm of Torment, that Abaddon was imprisoned in the Realm of Torment, hell Abaddon's very existence is a spoiler to the entire plot of Nightfall (Abaddon is only revealed to exist in the third mission but doesn't become a main threat until into Vabbi, before then it is "stop Varesh" after that it's "stop Varesh and Abaddon"), but yet it's also historical lore and very important to the overall lore. This alone would warrant a spoiler tag if we tag every single spoiler. It just can't be done - instead, only worry about the big spoilers - like Kormir's ascension. Of course Varesh will die, she's the villain (only other thing that could happen is a revelation and redemption), of cource Shiro will die. It's what happens with their death (Togo's death, Shiro becoming mortal; Varesh becoming a margonite and opening the way to the Realm of Torment finally; Khilbron being the Flameseeker and the Lich Lord; Kormir taking Abaddon's power; dwarves turning to stone and Duncan's actions) that's the real spoilers. Again: of course Varesh will die, and with her death there will be a power vacuum, so it's more logical thinking than a spoiler. Once people realize Varesh is evil, they can guess that will happen. I don't think a spoiler tag is needed for such minor things. -- Konig / talk 21:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The thing is, you wouldn't want the big spoilers to ruin the enjoyment and that's what I was aiming about. Hence, the way it is now, to me, is not as bad as the way it was rewritten. I felt spoiled and though I've completed nightfall, etc. It's like a book to me that I enjoy rereading and always find interesting things. I try to treat it as if I've never read it and I enjoy it. That's how I think of each game and the way things are / would be written. I've seen minor spoilers for movies that - to me doesn't hurt, but the major spoilers have had me to not like some movies as well as I would have, had I not read those. That's what I think and how I Feel we should treat some of this - we write what it needs, but not too much to really spoil it for people. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 22:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * In terms of "significant" spoilers in the article, there really wasn't any in the article before, they are relatively logical as konig stated. The story line for the game is very simplistic and predictable with the potential of just spoiling itself. I'm not saying that the story line is not important but it takes a back seat to everything else in the gameplay, and IMO spoiling the story in a game like this probably won't dissuade anyone from playing the game, unlike games like the final fantasy series.  Leave the major spoilers out and leave the minor ones in; but I still think a spoiler tag will allow for a much "richer" article.  In terms of who will read this article; most who read it are people who read it for lore.  Most starter players probably won't read the lore before playing, but rather jump in a play the game with friends. -- Lania Elderfire 03:10, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I and many others actually do the opposite than what you said. I know many in game who tried to read as much as possible on here and other places of gw, before starting or having started, etc. I did, before I bought the game. The little spoilers were nothing, but the big ones (and there were a few redone to not be such - aka Abbadon and the end of NF with him as that is a Major Spoiler and was - hence the last article being done the way it is as well as the others) were the ones that had me wait on Night Falls for a while. I wouldn't have bought the game, (because of the big spoilers and no little ones) had it not been for the heroes. I was spoiled and disappointed knowing most of the story before even beginning, where as the other two had me interested. Eye of the North is the best in having me be interested. A major thing that i dislike on here is a lot of spoilers, which I have seen. I do applaud people like Koing for redoing articles and taking out the un-needed spoilers for the real information that's needed for those articles. Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 04:28, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I personally know someone who reads everything about anything before watching a movie, play a game etc and then complain that he's been spoiled and know the story before they even watch the movie. Personally I think it's a dumb thing to do cause reading anything has the potential to spoil the story. Yes there is a lot of spoilers at GWW but the purpose of a wiki is to document information.  The act of documenting information about a prominent game, movie, book etc on a wiki is not spoiler friendly.  For example do you see any spoiler tags on Avatar wiki page?  No, and it's full of spoilers on the plot and character section, that's just how a wiki is, full of spoilers...everywhere! That friend I know reads the wiki about a movie "everytime" before we plan to go see it and he complains he's spoiled on the story.  We then tell him "then don't read the wiki f'ktard!" but he does it anyway, it seems like it's a compulsion or something... At least he doesn't spoil the story for us.  In any case wiki = spoiler unfriendly. -- Lania Elderfire 05:35, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but some parts don't need all that major spoil points just for geography, etc. I have not seen that many landscape type wikis, etc. give into a good deal about a war, etc. when describing the geography part/area. I don't think we need to as well. You can give out some spoiler points, but too much that's not needed, is rather unnecessary.  Kaisha  User Kaisha Sig.png 05:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Just bringing my toughts on this, the "Utopia" continent seems like it could have been to the west coast or across the sea. Price Mehtu the wise mentions artifacts from ancient civilization found from west coast, and on one of the Mhenlos quates he wonders "what lies across the waves". Maybe on the same height as Elona but across the ocean.89.27.93.92 14:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)Walham

Incorrect Map
The current Fan made map we are using while very good has a glaring error elona and tyria are much closer together as shown by http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/b/ba/Elona_Desert_Desolation_Overlay.jpg some guy on Guildwiki picked out 2 trapezoidal paths that allowed the most direct walking distance in both Regions. he then mapped them out with his "Pathing" Application and copied the first complete path from the Aspect Ratio he believed to be more accurate (the Desolation, 210sec). he then compared the Walk Distances with exact seconds, calculated a 63% difference, and scaled up the copies of that Path and changed the rotations slightly. Then finally, he "scaled" the Desert overlay with a fixed proportion to fit the scaled up Copied path (330sec) and fade-cut where the boundries naturally existed... What resulted was the above. this if accurate shows that there is no space between elonas map and tyrias map because they overlap now im sure someone could edit the fan map we are currently using to reflect this easily i just thought it should be pointed out. By Higara66, March 17 2010, 2:07am
 * That's all well and good, but it is the only map we have available. We are unable to simply take user created images from GWiki due to incompatible copyright licenses. If the creator of the map you linked wishes to submit his map here as well, that's great, otherwise, we do with what we have. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  08:47, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That map you linked is in fact incorrect. You see, the Lonely Vigil (statue that falls in the Arid Sea) is also seen in the Desolation, via Crystal Overlook. The Crystal Overlook would be connected to the Arid Sea. You're linked image bases things on scaling, which actually contradicts lore. But aside from that, how would he know the closeness? The information you put up in fact only points out the sizes. Did the person who made that linked image even look at the edges of the world maps? They clearly don't overlap, it's impossible. -- Konig / talk 17:50, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * actually its never said anywhere that that is the same statue as seen in the arid sea most people ASSUMED it is the same statue but nowhere does anyone say it is the same statue and if you remember that desert is filled with similar statues. whos to say it isnt another one we didnt see or get to. i say this is just really bad programing on anet and ncsofts fault and you also must remember that technically you cant see the statue standing up because it is a mirage and also that nf takes place like 3 years after proph so to see a statue that's standing up that you know to have fallen down is a contradiction in itself. Higara, March 17 2010, 1:03pm
 * I highly doubt they'd have the same exact model - with the same damage and everything (everything else is buried very deeply in sand) - just to have it not being the same map. And if it is one we didn't see, then by your linked map it would be smack dab in the Temple of Ascension (DoD mission), still proving that linked map is incorrect. And still, with such a map overlay, I say once more, the coast of the world maps would not match. The Elona map should be showing the indent before going to the Orr peninsula. It just doesn't work. -- Konig / talk 18:06, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * what we have to remember is that NF is 3 years after proph and according to in game sources abbadons corruption is still spreading in the desert thus making it is entirely possible that in those 3 years it spread more into the tyrian desert but when we go to the desert in proph we are seeing it as it was 3 years ago not as it is now the only contradiction that seems to takes place is in fact not one because we are basically staring into a time paradox. and also as a subnote the offical tyrian map make by ncsoft/anet doesnt have that big dip under orr that is something only on the fan made map. Higara, March 17 2010, 1:13pm
 * File:TyriaMap.jpg You cannot say you don't see an enclave (the land goes northeast then heads west) on this official map, and the Elonian map does not have this, nor does it even make a decisive turn west. Also, the land does not change that much, the explorable areas do not overlap, the rock is not part of the corruption - what is would be all those tiny tendrils you see popping out of the ground, and possibly the sulfurous wastes. The corruption is not turning an unfinished temple into a damaged and eroding, thus old, statue. And the Mouth of Torment (not the portal, but the huge arse crater) has been there since the Exodus of the Gods, so that can't be "recent corruption" either. The corruption is not affecting the map. -- Konig / talk 18:43, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * if you over lay the maps with the areas that he say overlap the coastlines match up quite well and as i said before the statue in the arid sea and the one we see in the crystal overlook are two entirely different statues based on their models.and the part were the tyria map starts going to the southeast at the very bottom there is the very top of the elona map which at the top starts in a south eastern direction. also there is no collision between the desert mission and the giant crater in fact its only the very top of the craters map that matches with the very bottom of the tyria map. further more if those statues were the same then the resulting coastline would look like http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070130225903/gw/images/0/0f/Elonatyriaconnection.jpg a far more inccorect coastline with many more incorrect collisions then what i suggest which would put the coastlines at just about matched and has GEOGRAPHICALLY MATCHING collisions. the statue we are seeing based on where i say the map overlap is  to the west of the desert mission thus allowing for it to be becuase we didnt go over there and the desert itself is evidence to the fact that there are many more statues out there. also in my map the corruption hasn't touched any of the buildings so it doesnt conflict. Higara, March 17 2010, 5:50pm
 * Firstly, I see no similarities between the two coasts. But you don't listen... I said that in its literal placement the statues are not the same, but that it would seem that the statue in the desolation is put there by the developers to show that is how they are connected (i.e., Arid Sea is north of the Crystal Overlook). It's not literally right there. And the idea that the Arid Sea is directly north of the Crystal Overlook is further supported by the forgotten guardian and the teleportation that is seen. Also, in the Crystal Overlook, one could see the path that the Elonians used when moving to the Crystal Desert, according to your first map, they'd be heading northwest, then directly east - but there are no accounts of such, and based on the structures, it would be more likely that they moved west constantly. Also, you're evidence and support is based on issues with scaling - which is not absolute in GW1. Here, let's go at a different look, as shown here, there are too many conflicts with chasms and cliffs with the two maps. That's obviously off, there's some distance between the two. Changes like that don't happen so easily. Sure, the land could change shape with sand, but that's rocks, not just that, but at different textures (different kinds of rocks!) and you not only have the additions but the lack of rocks. -- Konig / talk 23:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, if you look at this map, and this map, you'll see that to the right side that the Thirsty River and the Poisoned Outcrops will overlap due to the distance difference. Furthermore, the argument you used in your last linked map can be used against you as well, for if you look north of the Ruptured heart, you see more cliffs which don't match that of the Arid Sea. -- Konig / talk 23:23, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If you look at the very bottom of this map http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/4/4e/TyriaMap.jpg you will right right below orr is a little hump and right below that the coast goes into a south east direction compare that to http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/d/d6/ElonaMap.jpg and you will see elona's coast begins in a south east direction. And for the direction of the peoples path the ruins of morah are right below the crater and that crater is by my map not to far directly below the ruins in the tyria desert. now no leader would pick a path through a crater of doom so they went around it what direction did they go around it to the west and then back north making the city in the crystal overlook, then they were like well the crater is behind us now lets get back on the path we were going on thus leading them to the city in the desert on the tyrian map. all people even today go around giant danger zones and after getting around the zone get back on their original path. thus leading to that city being to the west of everything else it was just them going around the crater. and as for the terrain mismatches it can attributed to the corruption that destroys and alters the lands as it spreads its very unlikely that the valleys in the shattered ravines and the poison outcrops existed before the corruption in fact going through them you can see massive amount of land jutting out over some of them as if the very land was blasted away the changes in the tyrian elevation oculd be easily attributed to the same forces that caused the ravines in nf the corruption altering stuff. also the ruptured heart doesnt overlap the arid sea it overlaps the dunes of despair. your thinking of the poised outcrops and how it overlaps the cliffs that we see may have been hidden under the sand for all we know. Higara march 17 2010 6:40pm.
 * also as another note the top of the poisened outcrops map is flat the arid sea map is flat as well, the thirsty river mission area's bottom is slightly above the bottom of the arid sea thus if you put the poisned outcrop right on the bottom of the arid sea there would be a tiny gap between the two thus there is no colission.

I see no point in continuing an argument since you refuse to realize that a chasm/valley does not instantly become a cliff/mesa. This discussion will go no where. -- Konig / talk 01:21, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * you just refuse because you don't like beating beat and wont admit you might be wrong about something.
 * Hi guys, i'm the map maker so i thought i might chime in here. The first post in this thread goes through the basic reasoning behind how the continents are aligned. In short though I positioned Elona so that the statue in the Crystal Desert would be in the same direction as the one you can see from Crystal Overlook. A few people have triangulated the statues, and if they are the same statue - then Elona lies impossibly inside the Crystal Desert. This is obvious when you take the teleporter between both continent and can see the distinct and unique geography between the two at the same time. So since you can't have any map with impossible geography we have to figure out how make it as realistic as possible. Assuming that it's the same statue then, and taking into account some kind of |Superior mirage effect i've slid the Elonan continent downwards along the directional axis of the statue from Crystal Outlook enough so that the coastlines do not overlap. I then slid it just a little farther down so that I could create a realistic new coastline to connect the two. This was after scaling both continents to the best measurements we had at the time. The Battle Isles are a similar guess as they should be mostly south of Lion's Arch and slightly closer to Cantha rather than Elona - since Cantha claims ownership. So this map is not a completely accurate map like something that would come out of ArenaNet, but it's as reasonable enough an approximation of the full Tyria as we can put together based on the geographical evidence that's come up. This (kind of old) thread  was the last place for discussions on the map, and there might be more points in there that i'm forgetting. Auslander 02:50, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * @Higara: Actually, I'm not afraid of/not liking "being beat" (in my opinion, there is no "being beaten" - this is not a competition, this is a discussion for the betterment of everyone towards lore, no matter the outcome, in my view, everyone wins) - I just know that you think you're right and refuses the possibility of being wrong. I know I might be wrong, in fact, I don't give any set location between the two, I just have been saying that you believe it to be rather impossibly close, based on various facts that you just refuse to agree with despite showing proof. I know I haven't given images to show the comparison, except once, but I'm just not really interested in doing so much work for something that's rather obvious (plus it would have to be a video, with the two maps overlapping each other at the supposed alignment, with one fading in then out) @ Auslander: thanks for chiming in. -- Konig / talk 03:10, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I do accept the possibility i might be wrong but when using the map i first linked besides the matching terrain, the fact that when using that scale the coasts match, the fact the lore says elona is right below the crystal desert, also accounting for the 3 to 4 year time lapse between the two games for spreading of the coruption, and that the map i linked has no impossible collisions and that they only touch at the very edges of their respective sides and that there isn't a super huge overlay between the two, also taking into account that the normal desert were teleporting into is according to lore right over there my map is very plausible based on all the given data. and to the map maker guy i really do like your map i just think the distance between tyria and elona is greatly overdone besides that its fine. also i admit my map makes it very close and i will admit it is pushed back slightly but if you look at the bottom of the dunes of dispair mission on the bottom left hand side you will se it makes a 90 degree outward angle, now if you take that and using the scale the person who made the map i linked to use put it in the desolation map it fits almost if not perfectly with a 90 degree inward angle formed by the ruptured heart and poisoned outcrops areas which leads to the maps both fitting together snugly and the coasts still matching up. Higara, March 18 2010 5:40pm

Clarification
This is an important read for anyone who would call themselves a fan of this game's lore. However I'm still a little confused. This article says both... "little is known about tyria before the gods arrived" and "tyria is said to be created by the gods" . If they created the world than there would be no time before their arrival. Do they mean "created" as in "finding a lonely barren rock in space and putting stuff on it" or bringing the entire world, with it's matter, into existance? Or is it two varying theories of the denizens of tyria, one side saying that they created the world, the other side saying they came to it than shaped it? Am I missing something? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә    ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC) is not entirely correct. Many people confuse any kind of god with the Abrahamic God, while the Tyrian gods are very much on par to the origin of the term god - the polytheistic gods of norse, greek, rome, egypt, shinto, and so forth. These gods are not "all powerful and unkillable beings" but rather extremely strong beings who're credited with being able to create and oversee life, and have some link (direct or indirect) to the creation of all life (in the case of the greek gods - Zeus and the Olympians are third generation creators, iirc). -- Konig / talk 15:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, where did we get that the bit about Abaddon having the ability to defeat two gods? Which of them could he have beaten?  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 13:39, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Little is known about Tyria before the gods arrived, this doesn't mean nothing is known. It is said that the gods created Tyria, but that isn't proven, and there are implications that isn't the case - because it is unproven, little is known about Tyria before the gods' arrival (that is, either it didn't exist, or it did and nothing is known). It's unknown what is meant by created - it could just be terraforming, or literally creating. But there's just an uncertainty in the lore as a whole. As for the bits of Abaddon, it came from official lore from the Taiwanese version of the official site which was translated and the translation can be found here. -- Konig / talk 19:09, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, personally I think the gods came afterwords, and aren't really as "godly" as they seem. Anyway, it's just an ambiguous thing.  Anet should try to clarify their intentions with the little things like this, unless it has something big to do with GW2.  But then it would be nice to know that it's something to do with GW2 and not just a plot-hole that will never be filled.  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:17, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Originally it was said Tyria was the oldest and first planet the gods created, with Bahltek it was said that there are older planets and slowly it has become less absolute that the gods created Tyria. It's not so much a plot-hole but the whole thing is a case of what the people of Tyria believe/know, and they're slowly learning the truth. Just as we are. -- Konig / talk 20:55, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll summarize here what I have learned about the case: First of all, the gods are not eternal. We know that two gods have lost their positon (Dhuum and Abaddon)and accordingly two that have ascended to godhood (Grenth and Kormir). Also, gods before the known patheon have existed, witch might have created Tyria. Human legends tell that the gods created Tyria, but the six gods merely brought humans into it. It's presumably unknown if Grenth had already usurped Dhuum when the forgotten and humans were brought, but because there are no monuments of Dhuum, we can assume that happened after humans were brought. But as all traces of Abaddon were cleansed, we cant be sure. Forgotten were the first known creatures created or brought by the Gods, and they were intended to guide other races. The True Giants lived on Tyria "Long before the wardens", so they could be made by other gods. Very little is known of them, though. But if they were not created before the gods of men, that means Tyria existed before Gods came.89.27.93.92 15:10, 8 November 2010 (UTC)Walham
 * It should be noted that "the gods ... aren't really as "godly" as they seem"

Page Formatting
I just read this article, and I was sort of put off by the 'wall of text' in the Geography section. While it didn't dissuade me from reading it, I think that maybe the overall purpose may be better served by splitting the Geography section up into smaller subsections, maybe one for each continent. This would make it easier to navigate, as well as giving the page a more visually pleasing appearance. As it seems that currently the section is written in sections pertaining to each continent, this wouldn't be that large of an edit. Nym 05:40, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was fast. Nym 06:00, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

The Positioning of Cantha
In all maps I have seen, Cantha is at the very bottom, disconnected form the rest of the world. The bottom of Cantha, to me, seems to match up with the top of Tyria, making one giant landmass with countless island chains, such as the Ring of Fire and the Battle Isles. I know that all accounts of travel between Elona/Tyria and Cantha make the map work, but if Tyria is a globe, which is most likely true, Cantha could be above Tyria. This still works, because Tyria doesn't really expand much into its upper regions, and travel over the "Far" Far Shviverpeaks would be impractical and maybe even impossible. If Cantha was placed above Tyria, I can clearly see where the 4th continent (Utopia) may have been planned to be placed: In the area just east of Ascalon (which by the globe theory could make it west of Maguuma, making a land chain that blocks all passage by ship, further strengtehning my view), where the gap created when Tyria and Elona are joined is. - Adark 06:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * There'd need to be a polar ice cap between the two if they are connected physically, and there would have to be a polar ice cap between the two if "Cantha was north of Tyria." Also, that would make for a very small planet. However, if you go north long enough, you'll eventually be going south... then north again, and hit Cantha. I like to think there's half of a planet between south of Cantha and north of Tyria. At least half, that is. Otherwise Tyria is missing a polar ice cap or two. -- Konig / talk 07:01, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Essentially, you're right. But you're not completely right. There should be a lot more land, or water, between the known continents. But eventually if you go in one direction, you'll land on the other side of the continent. The same goes for any planet, so it isn't much of a revelation. -- Konig / talk 07:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Without getting mathematical, if we assume Adark's theory to be correct, then The World of Tyria is dramatically smaller then Earth's moon, Luna! While Kaineng City is indeed a HUGE metropolitan city, its still cannot compare to the MASSIVE scales of modern realworld cities like Paris, Los Angeles or Tokyo. --Falconeye 08:05, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If Tyria was that small the gravity on the planet would be much weaker than on the moon, and from the character's jump animations, they don't seem to float very much as if they were jumping on the moon. In order to make a planet of that size to have the same mass as the earth, tyria would have to be made with ultra dense substances, and it would have to be much denser than lead which we'll be getting into unstable atoms.  I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that only a tiny portion of the world is rendered in-game which makes the world look a lot smaller than it really is. --Lania  [[Image:User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg]]00:47, 10 March 2011 (UTC)