Feedback talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Game Related Topics/Feb 2010

Feeling bad about playing Guild Wars.
Dear Regina,

I have been playing guild wars going on now for about 18 months. I currently have 26 maxed titles (working on getting to 30 for GWAMM). Lately though it seems as if the corruption in this game has reached all-time lows, or maybe highs (whichever you prefer). I was playing in JQ and an unnamed individual was of course leeching. That I could ignore, but what he said afterwards angered me. It makes me feel bad, because of what he was doing is ruining the game system for me. He told those in the party that he had 5 accounts. And that 4 of them were leeching from JQ, pretty much non-stop while he worked on farming in the underworld. I understand that you can't stop everyone whom is cheating the system. The fact that it seems that people need to cheat to succeed in GW is quickly becoming apparent. There are no penalties for those reported for leeching in JQ, especially when they have multiple accounts to switch between. The only penality is that if you report someone for leeching and the rest of your team doesn't, you get hurt. Please read this carefully; You are in-effect rewarding leechers, and punishing those whom report them. I have yet have this happen to myself. I imagine it's only a matter of time though.

I do not feel at this point that the Guild Wars staff is considering the health of the game. I understand that many of you may have your hands busy with GW2, but if we cannot stop these problems now, what's to say they won't continue in GW2? I like GW. I like playing GW a lot, even if the enemies cheat, and I'm broke in game. I like most of the people even if they don't seem to care about playing the game anymore. I care about this game and want to see it get the attention it deserves, but I feel as if my voice will not be heard. I feel as if no players voice will be heard on this issue. So I'm left feeling bad, when I get into game, and see barriers created by those whom cheat, and ones I shall never cross playing honestly.

I don't have many friends in game, so items such as rare skin golds/ectoplasm, are only available if I work myself to the bone to save up for them. Honest players, who are playing for fun and to try and succeed are being tossed aside because others are gaming the system. As bad as it is though, I see it getting much worse. When Shadowform is killed, or perhaps maimed, and protective spirit is as well, the price of ectoplasm will shoot through the roof, if be available period. This means, that someone will more then likely be a slave to gw, to scrimp and save for years to purchase something like chaos gloves, and obsidian armor, will be an impossible dream. Time has shown that rare drops or pathetic drop rates do not stop farmers, only regular players who become upset playing the game and being left behind.

I don't feel like caring about Guild Wars. Which is a shame, considering I have done my best to help guilds and individuals, even with missions I hate with a passion. I do not know what else I can say. It seems that this is in an infection that doesn't just affect guild wars but gaming in general. I have shared my feelings with you, and wish you lots of luck in your pursuits. I however, do not feel like I can continue Guild Wars as this rate.

Dealaka 1:16, 03 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Most GW players are 13-year-old losers. My advice is to either report them to NCSoft with screenshots, ignore them, or find out who they are and torture them to death with box cutters.  I'd really like it if you tried that third one, but failing that, all MMO players are losers with no lives.  –Jette 07:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That was inappropriate on multiple levels, Jette. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 13:33, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

"I do not feel at this point that the Guild Wars staff is considering the health of the game." . Tbh they really aren't, Guild wars is being kept alive long enough for GW2 to get into full swing, and at this point arenanet doesn't really care all that much about it because it doesn't have any big money-making potential left. It sucks, but deal with it.--TahiriVeila 13:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * True! True! Anet should start swinging the banhammer. ANet can't just dodge all problems to then handle them half-arsedly. We had enough bots and leechers in GW while the solution is simple: Warn them, and ban them. As many as you can find. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 15:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem is that doesn't make any sense from the prospective of a game on the decline. If GWs was still new, yes that would be logical. Just banning anyone who uses a bot would simply INCREASE the rate at which the userbase is decreasing. Simply put, there's more players and opportunity to make SOME cash for Anet if they don't ban botters than if they ban botters, and it doesn't matter if botting ruins the game b/c it's no longer a priority anyway.--TahiriVeila 18:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Regina, does it upset you at all that your player base thinks this way? This topic isn't nonsense QQ's, the OP a fan presenting a very valid point about feeling neglected as a customer.-- *Yasmin Parvaneh* [[Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png]] 18:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Better phrasing: While botters will undoubtedly cause a great deal of long-term harm to any game, Anet doesn't plan on GW1 having much long-term future anyway. Thus they're only concerned about short-term profitability. Banning botters produces a smaller playerbase in the short term than there would be if they simply ignore botters. Thus Anet puts no effort into banning botters as they're only concerned with short-term profitability, and in a game built around micro-payments, more players means more profit. The key is understanding that while a great game is the primary desire of a player, a compnay's primary goal is profit and will only pursue quality gameplay if it results in a greater profit. If doing nothing to improve gameplay or doing nothing to prevent the degredation of gameplay doesn't greatly affect profitability or even provides a relative increase in profitability, a company will let the game die.--TahiriVeila 18:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Being concerned only about short-term profitability is why Hungary is almost in anarchy, and the reason of high pollution, health problems, ridiculous cost of saving lives, etc. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 18:26, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Enough, I think the problems in Hungary have little to do with anything here. I believe enough has been said for Regina to get the point. Take the rest of it to a fansite forum somewhere. Just allow her to respond without filling her page with a wall of text. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  18:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * lol @ Hungary - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 22:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hungary is just an example of how bad being concerned only about short term profit is. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 06:30, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say that. - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 10:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What would you say about america? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә  [[File:User Aliceandsven 1.png]]  ѕνәи  Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 18:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Here's a thought. Tear up your copy of Guild Wars. I used to play Guild Wars about a year ago now (and yes did everything in the game took me only 2 years to do that). From my experience Anet doesn't care about it's customer. After you pay the money for each expansion and play into their numerous money sinks they stop caring about you as a customer. If your account gets hacked, you are screwed and have to start all over. Regina and team are a joke. Pony up the money and buy a fresh copy of WoW and their expansions. Then pay the $15 a month. At least they know how to solve problems in game quickly (usually in 2 hours compared to 2 years that Guild Wars still hasn't taken to fix perma Shadow Form). If your account gets hacked, the restore your items back to you very quickly (about a week, whereas Guild Wars says screw you it takes too much time and manpower). There is consistent new content in WoW (Last time I seen any significant new content in GWs was a year ago and before that when Nightfall came out). The point is you pay for what you get. Stop playing MMOs that started to suck a long time ago and pony up the money to ones that take care of their customers. I said this about a year ago when I stopped playing Guild Wars. They will get the point when they lose their customer base to their competitors and loose more money in sales. Have a nice day :D
 * sign your contributions with four "~" signs --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 06:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * anon: 1. you are bad 2. wow is still a crap game - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]] 17:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wayyy better than this game though. 216.119.129.130 17:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * May I suggest that you take this pointless gwvswow elsewhere. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 17:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

What makes me laugh is that you put all your effort into this post( which i think your 100% correct ) and regina wont even give the slightest damn about it, tbh she isnt active as often as her job should be and they dont care as long as they keep getting there money. I know all the people that love regina will start spamming hate mail to me but cmon... open your eyes. 90.202.76.99
 * Some have argued that they're actually not Monetarily-driven enough and that's why the game's in its current state. ...and no, microtransactions don't count.  Real money whores do what blizzard did by selling pets and other froo froo crap at a premium instead of just giving it away to con goers, cronies, and art contest winners. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 03:59, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello, Dealaka: Thank you for your feedback. I will pass it along to our two Live Team designers. What I can say at the moment in response to your concerns is that the Live Team is absolutely taking into consideration the health of the game. However, with a team as small as it is, and being (in general) unable to draw any additional resources away from Guild Wars 2, I hope you can understand that certain issues need to be prioritized over others. How issues are prioritized are based on research, goals, and executive direction (in some cases). Given this situation, players can and do disagree with what decisions are taken in terms of prioritizing. That's only natural. I am sorry that this issue hasn't been addressed to your satisfaction, but I will pass along your feedback. Thanks. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:36, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Canthan New Year 2010 - Mini confirmation?
Hello Regina, from the description of the CNY 2010 on the official page, I get the impression we will get the Celestial Tiger mini "for free" again this time (and we don't have to open stacks of Lunar Fortunes like the past two years): Special Rewards In addition to the items mentioned above, players will receive a special reward just for attending the end of this year's festival in Shing Jea Monastery—a Celestial Tiger miniature! Carry the divine beast's luck with you throughout the year! Can you confirm that? Or did I get the wrong message from the text? PS: I hope the special "Mystery Reward" is a complete costume set this time. *smiles* Gorani 13:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Quote: In addition to the items mentioned above, players will receive a special reward just for attending the end of this year's festival in Shing Jea Monastery—a Celestial Tiger miniature It's on the official page, can it get anymore confirmed than that? - Yes you will get a miniature Celestial Tiger if you attend the finale of the event in Shing Jea.Manassas  [[Image: Ritualist-tango-icon-20.png]] 14:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks like I was right to ask. This is what somebody dug up on Guru:

Quote Regina: "Looks like an old piece of text slipped into the web site text. We're sorry about the confusion. We'll have our web team correct that as soon as possible. So, here's a clarification from the Live Team: You obtain the Celestial Tiger randomly from the Lunar Fortunes (just like last year)." So no "free mini". It will be obtainable from tokens. Gorani 20:50, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The website has been updated to reflect the correct information. You get the Tiger the same way you got the Ox last year, in Lunar Fortunes. We apologize for the confusion. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 23:32, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


 * lmao does no1 at anet proofread?--SirBoss 16:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V/GOGOGOGOGO!!!11 Copy-pasters don't proofread. [[Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpg]]Rose Of Kali 03:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I need to ask, why is it that ArenaNet is so adamant about using the random-drop rate so frequently with primary motivating rewards, such as the Celestial mini pets, mini polar bear, dungeon chest rewards, etc. which often players will wind up spending multiple hours of efforts only to meet with frequent disappointment and in many cases never getting the items they desire as opposed to collectible exchangeable tokens which will show clear progression towards their goals (thereby maintaining player motivation as opposed to potentially driving them away in frustration)? Seryu 08:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * uess why. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 10:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, hell, and here I was happy because I wasn't going to have to complete all the quests on every character just to get enough lunar fortunes to get maybe 1 pet. Anet would be much better off to do what the text said. --[[Image:User mrsmiles tinysmile.png| ]] MrSmiles 03:57, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You won't get it for sure not even that way. I did that with 10 characters last year, and I still had to buy the miniature to get it. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 14:21, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Interrupt Bots in PvP
Hope this isn't a bad place to put this but thought I would ask. My friends have report the few people doing this 100's of times and nothing has happen yet.. Any idea if it will be taken care of soon? No one wants to HA anymore because of these bots that can interrupt everything in your bar including 1/4 sec casts. It's been really aggravating. I have been told there are even screen shots of people admitting to running them in ALL chat as well as one person even trying to sell the bot. Cheers Kelz 08:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Support and Live Team are aware of this, and they've been looking into it. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:40, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

GWs down
Entire team just got booted and can't reconnect. Err007s and err040 at loading screens. 98.248.90.248 07:43, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nvm, resolved itself. Still weird though. 98.248.90.248 07:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The team knows about the connection errors, and they're investigating. Sorry for the inconvenience caused. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:14, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I just got booted out of Rata Sum just recently with most of dist 1. It was funny to come back and see the trade section of the party search window falling away one entry at a time.  000.00.00.00  20:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Next Update: PvE skill update
So, was just wondering if they were going to be an update on when this would be. 000.00.00.00 22:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ever time someone asks this they will update it a month later. :P 62.133.217.138 09:35, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * So, are you still on target for the skill update to be in February? Typically by the third week in Feb it is too close to the mAT, but are any of the skills actually going to change in PvP? Seeing how it was announced to be this month it would be nice to know if the live team is still on target. --Orry 02:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Four-Leaf Clovers
With the lucky weekend around the corner (a month or so) I'd like to request another look at Four-Leaf Clovers, specifically the fact that they are a very, very poor and unreliable source of Lucky points. There was a small discussion about a year ago on Linsey's page, and I though I'd bring this up as a reminder... &mdash;  Poki#3  (talk ) 12:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you have suggestions you can make a feedback page and post it there.Anet will then read it.Thanks! Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 13:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

<. delete pve aswell. - Wuhy   19:45, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * you people are very good at finding stupid shit to complain about! i assume you don't remember that they didn't even give lucky points a few years ago, and it was because of a suggestion that they give lucky points at all. MAFARAXAS 14:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Lockpicks also used to not give Lucky points... And I'm not suggesting anything, just reminding of something said a year ago that might get looked at maybe... I'd take this directly to Linsey, but her page is constantly locked. &mdash; User_Poki_sig.png Poki#3  (talk ) 00:59, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Four-Leaf Clovers haven't been altered since their introduction. 24.197.253.243 06:02, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Dear Poki,You are suggesting they alter Four leaf clovers.Although you make it sound like a question it is a suggestion.Thanks! Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 11:16, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Poor occurrence and unreleasability sound pretty related to luck to me. You are not supposed to have luck easily. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 16:13, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe it should at least give unlucky if you hit the lowest value, then. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 16:32, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Better: Delete the titles. Turn attention from grinding the progress bar to playing together and increasing player skill. --Boro [[image:User_Borotvaltgandalf_Sig.jpg|10px‎]] 18:05, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Better: Delete the titles. Turn attention from grinding the progress bar to playing together and increasing player skill."
 * Boro you realise that although I share your opinion about titles not everyone does.Alot of people play the game for pve and titles and they only play the game for these reasons.Wether this is a good thing or a bad thing doesn't matter.What matters is that its a fact.We are way past the stage that anet can do anything about this.So all you can hope for is that once in a while they don't fuck up and you get to have some decent PvP. Lilondra [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 20:50, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ I agree -- Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 20:56, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Revamping an item that is available once a year, and for something that isn't a full scale festival, really isn't a top priority for the Live Team. Unfortunately, there are constraints on their time, and there are other aspects of the game that will take priority. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Festival time changes...
The change of day that the Canthan New Year Festival starts means that Australians and others in similar time zones only get one day on the weekend to do festival quests etc. Previously the festivals would start at 6pm EST on a Friday evening, so if you got home from work you could do some light questing before going to the pub or just spend the night playing. Then you had the option of playing on Saturday if you were busy on Sunday, and then catch one of the early finales on Sunday at either 6pm or 9pm EST. This new schedule means the first day of the festival begins on Saturday night at 6pm, skipping an entire day (and Friday night) of possibly being able to do something. It also means the finale will be on Monday when most Australians, and others in a smilair time zone, will either be at work or school. The old times worked much better for people who are unable to play during the week and need to get their gaming done during a weekend, but now we only have one day and no finale on the weekend.

Why was it changed and is there any chance we could avoid this new schedule for future festivals? 58.110.136.248 08:12, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My bad. Turns out the finale was on the same day/times as usual just the festival started a day later than usual. It still means people can do the finale on Sunday, but it also prevents people from doing festival things all day Saturday. 58.110.136.248 12:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

May 2009 TRPs
Hey, Regina! I'm just curious as to whether or not the players who didn't receive TRPs in May 2009 from the XTH will eventually get their points. I know that you guys said you had an accurate count and had even bumped us all up to another bracket, so I just thought I'd ask.

I also seem to remember something about the points being tied to the XTH itself, so if it's not possible due to the game-breaking code errors of the XTH, it'll be fine.

Thanks. Karate  Jesus  19:41, 15 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Pretty pretty please!!--SirBoss 20:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * After speaking to the dev team about this issue, we've posted the results of that discussion and what you can look forward to. I know this won't satisfy everyone (not that we could ever please everyone :-)), but given the underlying problems with XTH, the team felt that this was the most workable compromise. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 22:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not bad, not bad at all :). -- S ilverleaf   [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|Special:Contributions/Silverleaf]] Don't assume, Know! 22:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair, and I'm not going to complain about free stuff, even though I'm pretty sure I didn't participate in that particular month. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 23:08, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, that sounds more than fair. Thanks for the resolution!  --Musha [[Image:User_Musha_Sigc.png|19x19px]] Talk  23:39, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * How long until you offer tournament reward points for sale in the online store? 218.214.126.215 00:35, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 0/10. Into another subject, more related to the Journal update, that sounds actually very good. One piece of advise: Pay close attention to that bookkeeping, I heard that the guy was covering some holes here and there to pay for his long addiction to certain Canthan gambling rings. --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 01:10, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Regina. I figured that the accurate list of points would be lost, so this is more than fair. Thank you for getting back to us so soon. Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">03:45, 18 February 2010  (UTC)


 * It's not that the accurate listing of points were lost, the issue is that handing out those points was dependent on building a brand new XTH. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:26, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

so with XTH gone...
Does this mean that we have no more ways in getting more Tournament Rewards points across from participating in GvG automated tournaments (as well as that NPC that gives free rewards points)? I'm expecting Zkey prices to skyrocket. --Dark Paladin X 01:38, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a rhetorical question. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 01:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not unless they decide to start giving out TRPs monthly just for shits & giggles. I never got the point of giving all players random SSI anyway though.  And you can get Zaishen Keys through Balthazar faction, which is what people have been doing for the past ~9 months.  –Jette 04:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Since the XTH was gone, the Zkey price rose and stayed at 5k. <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  19:44, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ XTH has been gone for a year and key prices have stayed pretty co nstant (except for that RR bit)--TahiriVeila 21:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Can't you use ZCoins to get ZKeys? Meh, they should just forget about the tournament points and directly give zcoins as tournament prices. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 01:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Why would you? There are more valuable things you can buy with zcoins and then sell them for zkeys. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">01:40, 23 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Balth Faction once you have everything you want unlocked already?--Orry 19:32, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The Live Team doesn't have plans to replace XTH with an alternate system at the moment. Of course, there are some random ideas floating around (because designers are like that: they like to brainstorm stuff), but there are no concrete plans that are mapped to a time line in any way. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Just wanted you to know
UW is still run-able. Its a hefty price to be sure. But its somewhat mitigated by the fact that once you buy a run you can easily get into experienced Dayway groups. Saw 2 offers today. 1 for 75k and the other for 50. --Briar 13:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Dayway depends on Shadow Form......it'll be fixed Thursday. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:06, 23 February 2010  (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information. The Live Team is aware of this. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 20:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

2/25 update
Regina, please thank the live team for me. This update is one of the best thought-out and thorough skill updates Anet has ever released. The sound of SF farmers crying and threatening to go to WoW is music to my ears. My hammer warrior also thanks you. -- MrSmiles 02:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I was especially pleased by the functionality of spirit rift remaining at one time damage after 3 seconds- I thank you for keeping your ears by the community on that one. Thanks for an overall great update! Underated [[Image: User_Underated_Skill_sig.png|19px|Talk]] 03:45, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to extend my thanks to the live team. :) I'm really looking forward to trying out some of the new functionalities on the skills, but a little sad at seeing a change of heart about which enemies get hit by Demonic Flesh (I was so looking forward to trying that on various caster builds.  Ah, well.)  *LOVE* the new Earth Shaker animation.--174.130.129.212 04:44, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm guessing Brinstar has shwon her true colors with her strong anti-solo farming stance. Boss farming and raptor farming in HM is now officially impossible.--Dark Paladin X 05:09, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not True. Mesmers, Rangers, and Warriors can still farm raptors. --220.255.4.30 05:45, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks to the Live team! Definitely most expected and wanted update :) Can't wait to try out all the new possible builds. And thx for getting rid of abusive builds! 194.2.20.67 09:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

So, have the mass desertions begun yet? Anybody know? I guess if nothing else there's always the snow wurms outside Boreal Station to farm. About 500-700g per run in HM, and sometimes lockpicks and warrior tomes and the occasional gold item. Slow, yes, but for building a money supply it's safe and doesn't need complicated builds or virtual invincibility to do it. --Nathe 16:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The following things that are now impossible to farm with the SF nerf:


 * Woe Spreader (for your discordway heroes, luckily I manage to get the number of woe spreaders i needed)
 * Raptors
 * Scar Eater
 * Jayne Forestlight
 * Tomton Spiriteater
 * Shreader Sharptongue
 * Korshek the Immolated
 * Eshim Mindclouder
 * Birneh Skybringer
 * Chor the Bladed
 * ecto farming (although that was nerfed earlier with the Skeletons of Dhumm)
 * Shakor Firespear
 * Jishol Darksong
 * (rare) material farming (particularly feathers)
 * elite tomes
 * any items for Nicholas the Traveler

I hope you are happy...Reggie (I'm gonna start calling that just to piss you off). --Dark Paladin X 16:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Feathers aren't rare, and it is still possible to farm with a SS build. Very easy in Nahpui Quarter. Bit slower now with the slight nerf, but still farmable. Same with most of Nick's items, and I've already rebutted your claim against the raptors. <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 16:47, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The point of the nerf was to debilitate solo-farming with SF. It debilitated solo-farming with SF.  Everyone is aware of this.
 * Is there anything else that I can clarify for you? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  16:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And where's your answer to the bosses that I've listed. Oh yeah, I do know that Marrowfeast isn't possible to farm even prior to the SF nerf.  And so the purpose of this update is to make boss farming in HM impossible.  Got it.  I'm going to post a Youtube video on this.--Dark Paladin X 16:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what part of "solo-farming with SF isn't supposed to work well" you missed. So let's break out the orange text.
 * They aren't supposed to be farmable with SF. Hence, they're not farmable with SF.
 * I made some minor changes; it's accurate now. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  16:56, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Solo farming bosses is also something that shouldn't be easy. What's your point Paladin? Also, calling Regina "Reggie" just to piss her off is considered trolling, and will lead to the loss of your editing privileges. Grow up. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  16:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I no longer see as many players forming SC teams, and I have yet to see another player claiming to be able to run any and all dungeons. So I'll say it's a very good update. And you should try the hammer line. Glorious bashing. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 17:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * tactics still looks like a piece of crap - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]]<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 17:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I no longer see as many players forming SC teams, and I have yet to see another player claiming to be able to run any and all dungeons. So I'll say it's a very good update. And you should try the hammer line. Glorious bashing. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 17:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * tactics still looks like a piece of crap - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]]<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 17:57, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, the thread was going so well until Dark Paladin X ruined it. I apologize to those who left actual constructive feedback, but I'm not going to legitimize threads in which people are disrespectful. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]]
 * lol reggie don't be a crybaby. do your job and talk to us:X - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]]<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 19:36, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that comments like that is the exact reason why devs don't really bother with their pages, the criticism the autists here get is deserved. -- -Chaos?- (moo!) -- 18:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * ...one more thing I'm glad I stayed out of.  That said, anyone who *thinks* they know where Shadow Form stands only a day or 2 after this change is just flappin their gums with nothing of substance to back it up.  IoW: this feedback is TOO EARLY and you shouldn't have even admitted to reading it. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 19:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Aww boohoo, now some players have to put an effort into farming items. Stop crying over losing a broken skill. -- smøni 19:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Lets have a cry because SF got "changed" so we cant farm the whole of GW with it now. Seriously those people need to grow up, they still didn't nerf SF, they just changed it and if those people can't think of another decent build and work in more than solo teams, then its their loss. This update was great, thankyou and the live team Regina. :) --58.7.179.172 01:18, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm very disappointed with this update - sin was my favorite toon... and monk... you also nerfed faction farming for guilds leaving only certain arenas to make faction..... dungeons that took an hour with an SF sin or Monk will now take 3-4 hours -- after beating the campaigns so many times... and maxing titles - whats left other than farming - I believe you will see this game die out.... maybe it was your plan.... I really enjoyed losing myself in this game and escaping lifes complications.... you have ruined my experience with this game...farming was all keeping me here. For all you SF hater and Monk haters.....congratulations your whining finally paid off. _ Rattled Assasin. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.169.134.68 (talk).
 * Com'on! Pressing brainlessly 1-2-3 button made you escaping life's complications? The new challenge provided by the new update will actualy make your brain work to try to find new build. Or if it's too complicated wait untill a new one raise on PvX wiki :| M3G [[Image:User_M3G_Pumpkin.png‎| 19px | ]] 13:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes I guess thread was going well Regina as long as people were for the update - you really don't care to hear the feedback from the people against the update. As for pressing 123 - little more too it than that...but sin haters always have a smart remark.... go ahead spend 6 hrs doing a dungeon..or days doing Duncan.... I understand that these skills enabled us to play the game the way you didnt intend for it to be played....but after almost 4 yrs - in my opinion - was a little late in the game to just take farming away from all of us..... your drop rates already sucked.....now the game is going to be so hard in certain areas..... frustration to me = no fun. All of you Sin haters are eating this up.....but one day you will wish you had the sins and monks back to get you thru the hard parts. Also, little unfair to buff the Rits in my opinion.... their skills alone are more powerful than SF - i put SOS build on sin, monk, etc.....can beat any campaign..... so is that fair? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.169.134.68 (talk).
 * Guess you can have "your game" now,as for I dont think ill be playin anymore,and sinse I was a sin I guess ill be taking my mass amounts of riches with me,not putting em back into "your games economy"...But hey all you SF/600/smite haters got what ya wanted, maybe we didnt wanna play the game like the rest of you pugs,mybe we were happy doing what we LIKED to do? but thats the nature of people,they are assholes and whinners till they getsomething they dont like changed.Well good for you,enjoy the shitty drop rates on dungeons,enjoy the 4 hour runs (which suck with pugs who usually leave or fail) when those froggys,BDS,VS and the rest become even more rare,gl buying them when there 3 times as much as now..GL on getting your armbraces,gl on getting all the booze/candy/party points together you need for your titles..Thanx for killing the part of the game I enjoyed to do,Maybe I didnt have time to join a group for a 4 hour UW run,or maybe I liked to listen to music and just have fun with some freinds fora little while to do a quick run.But hey that got all fucked up, Looking forward to finding a new game now,as I can tell Im not wanted or needed for GW's or GW2,by the way Anet/NC soft you have lost a gamer,I will no longer spend any cash on any of your products.....Reign In what was a Sin --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:12.53.93.199 (talk).
 * dunt ... dunt ... dunt  ...  ... dun dun dun dun dunt dunt dunt!  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 18:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well thank god you've risen above them aye? Tidas 18:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL! OH NOS! What ever shall we do!? I kind of think that's how long they were supposed to take...
 * I GUESS thats how long it could take if you've forgotten how to really play the game, because you've been too busy with your 1-2-3 and the "little more too it than that".
 * You sound as though its hard and not fun. I got EVERYTHING i have in guildwars, items and titles, without the "help" of SF-ers, and have actually enjoyed it! GASP! I've done all dungeons (yep! even in HM!!) by myself and with guild and never even considered bringing an SF to "help" us through. Dungeon runs will now take 4 hours to complete? Exactly. That's actually kind of the point... Bad droprates? You bet! But that never stopped me from enjoying the game. Is the purpose of guildwars to get as many rare items as fast as you can? Apparently you think so. I do it for fun. Rare drops are just icing.  ~  M  ervil      [[Image:User_Mervil_Sig.png]] 00:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * To all of those complaining about the SF nerf and how it ruined your life, you are bringing the wrong kind of mindset into Guild Wars. While it's true that my sin can no longer farm raptors, my mesmer still can do it well. My Rit can still farm wallows in HM, and the 600 builds still work, you just have to give Spellbreaker to your hero and have them precast instead of doing it yourself. Bringing 2 monk heros instead of 1 so that you can spam holy wrath yourself is abit inconvenient, but it's not the end of the world. UW is still doable with stoneflesh sliver permas and stoneflesh degen permas, though no longer with solo splits and not as fast. My point is, if you are going to cling to the old perma builds instead of working with what you have now, then you will never progress. Learn to adapt to changes and remember that there are hundreds of skill combinations you can try. --220.255.4.30 06:04, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Guidelines?
"but we’d like to establish clearer guidelines for ourselves and for players as to what is and isn't acceptable."

Just what guidelines are you talking about, Regina? Could you be more specific? Your notes deliberately avoid saying what the changes to SF and the other farming skills are, yet you give full previews of all the rest of the changes. Tell us what you're doing with these skills instead of hiding them from us, which suggests you know they're not going to be liked and are afraid of the inevitable backlash. If you're not, then kindly prove it by telling us what the changes are and what these supposed "guidelines" are. Thank you. --Nathe 14:56, 21 February 2010 (UTC) That is exactly how the game should be. Let everyone have fun, but only reward the dedicated players. elix Omni 02:04, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Because so many people care about what happens to sf and such, it isn't a great idea to release info on changes that havn't been fully decided upon yet, as people will still read too much into them and take them as certain to happen. And besides, I would predict that 90% of the feedback posted as a response to any possible change wouldn't be that constructive or unbiased. Tidas 15:29, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They are afraid of the inevitable backlash, even though they know something has to be done. And like Tidas says, they don't want people jumping to the conclusion that what they post is what will be. We'll find out what they've decided when it's implemented. (All the better, I love surprises.) --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 18:28, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * P.R. Fail! ...like firing everyone on a Friday.  All it does is make people angrier on the day it happens when it hits them all at once.  It's better to give people time to brace for radical changes otherwise they'll be sitting there unable to do anything but freak on the day it goes live b/c they didn't have time to plan new builds or adapt to the changes.   IoW: the absence of their daily routine is felt so sharply that they go PTSD or some shit. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 19:54, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would recommend that you (Nathe) stop with the demanding. It's their game, and they will do as they see fit. You are not in any way entitled to anything other than what they choose to put in the game, nor any information they are willing to release at whatever time they wish to release it. They do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. There is inevitably going to be the portion of the community that has come to depend on the invincibility of these skills to enjoy the game that is going to be disappointed when it is no longer available. Yes, they may choose to leave, but this should not be a reason than ArenaNet does nothing to address the imbalance that this invincibility has created within the game itself. They should also care for the other part of the community that does not rely on these gimmicks to play, and would like a fair chance to accumulate wealth and acquire the "cool" stuff. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  20:01, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For the record, I was something of a latecomer to the world of SF farming, and even so it's not something I do all that much - any kind of farming gets tedious after a while, as you can only do so many runs in a row before it gets boring. So I'm often doing all manner of things in normal play, as I have ten characters I'm working on so there's always something interesting to do. And by the way, said accumulating takes an insanely long time with normal play, and not everyone has ten thousand free hours with which to do it - but they still want some high end stuff. Are you saying nobody who isn't a hardcore, live-and-breathe-it 24-hours-a-day player should ever be able to get any of those items? Or ever get even a single GWAMM character? People farm because things are either insanely expensive or take an insane amount of title grind to get or max out, which as I recall, runs counter to the original premise GW was founded on. Reduce the need to farm and you reduce the need to use overpowered farming builds in the first place. Remember this, Wyn - it is NEVER a good idea to continually shut out your playerbase to what you're doing and planning. Openness implies trust and a willingness to take risks and actually connect with your customers/players. Obscurity and vagueness do not. A company that isn't willing to be open, that relies on legalities and NDAs and secrecy, is one that is afraid to compete in the open market solely on the merits of its product and its treatment of its customers/players. --Nathe 01:45, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And the lack of comment on a mere three builds being changed means they aren't being open? You must have missed the 67 other skills they explained their plans for. Obviously they're the three builds that everyone is waiting for information on, and I'm not going to claim to know their motivations for keeping those three secret, but I assume it has something to do with the predicted response. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 01:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Are you saying nobody who isn't a hardcore, live-and-breathe-it 24-hours-a-day player should ever be able to get any of those items? Or ever get even a single GWAMM character?"
 * Exactly. Even if youve been playing for 5 years solid and have paid for every upgrade to the game you shouldn't have anything nice because you dont live and breathe guildwars. Some people fucking suck so much. Bunch of fuckin kiljoys. --71.193.48.146 02:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I also notice you are still here Nathe, even given their history of non communication and your implied mistreatment of their customers/playerbase. Personally, I think they are doing a good job of changing that with these skill update previews, even if they aren't allowing the month long lead time they had indicated initially. I personally don't think I could stomach an entire month of people ranting, so I guess for me it's a good thing. What I have an issue with is your continued demanding attitude. This is a game. It is suppose to be a source of enjoyment, both for the players and the people who create it.


 * Yes, I have almost 14,000 play hours (13 3x protectors, and one that is 3 titles from GWAMM), no I do not have stacks of ectos, or even a single set of obsidian armor. Yes I have some cool stuff, but quite honestly, it's the players that control the economy. If everyone stopped paying the outrageous prices people are asking for things in the game, prices would go down as inventory space filled up. It's called a boycott and it's a proven strategy for economic adjustment. Once these impossibly easy runs and speed clears are eliminated, the stockpiles of ectos will eventually dwindle (while at first, their value will skyrocket making the people who have stacks and stacks of them impossibly rich), and maybe, just maybe, we will see the economy come back to a reasonable level for the average player in a game that's almost 5 years old. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  02:23, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats what the game should be? Now that when 90% dedciated players achived the Gwamms etc after 5 years of game, now you want to 'fix it' for rarely few to come? Guild Wars had its best days behind it, now it will get only emptier, and You want to make it harder for whoever decides to still play. Wtf. --217.153.126.66 06:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * some people apparently believe that a misguided sense of "honor" or "fairness" is a good way to run a buisness. I know a couple people that need to go back to economics class. --71.193.48.146 06:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem to be under the impression that after removing SF from the game, nothing else will be balanced to match the change. Believe me, we're aware that overpowered farming builds aren't the only issue out there. But one thing at a time. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 06:43, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Its not an impression. Its a conclusion based around a track record they've stuck to pretty damn well for a long time. --71.193.48.146 06:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just like keeping Shadow Form around, and it seems like they're fixing that one. If you really have no optimism for this company or game then I wonder, of all wonders, why you bother playing (or commenting as if you do). --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 07:19, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * i have just 2 words for you, Boredom sucks. --71.193.48.146 07:46, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Just try to get such a boycott started, Wyn. Just try. And I'm still here playing GW because the game is still fun for me in many ways and because I'm fortunate enough to be part of a good, friendly and close-knit guild - one that, I might add, is geared expressly toward teaching new players the fundamentals of the game and how to get better at balanced play - that is, we generally prefer balanced parties to gimmicks for the most part (farming aside), and we do things together as a guild fairly often, weekly nowadays. And to Felix, not every player has been around for the full 5 years - did you even think of that? I thought not. So anybody who hasn't been in GW from the very beginning shouldn't be able to get anything high end? Is that what you think? --Nathe 16:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC) what? Players who have played longer will get more nice things. That's obviously how it's going to work, with or without overpowered farming builds. The farmers who have been here since the beginning will have more nice things than a farmer, even a very good farmer, that started a week ago. It's a moot point to argue that new players should have the same things as old players. They can just up the drop rates if it really becomes difficult for new players to get nice things. --Kyoshi (Talk) 16:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC) New players came into the game later. Dedication should be rewarded, just like any other kind of dedication; it's just virtual content anyway. They're also joining a dieing game, so they shouldn't expect much once they come to realize that. Because that's so goddamn dull. Nothing changes, nothing develops that way. And you could just buy really rare weapon skins from merchants then, and that would destroy the rarity and value of the things that were farmed (or more generally, obtained) from before such a change. Would piss a whole lot more farmers off than this single nerf is going to. --Kyoshi (Talk) 17:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "that is, we generally prefer balanced parties to gimmicks for the most part (farming aside)"
 * "And to Felix, not every player has been around for the full 5 years - did you even think of that? I thought not. So anybody who hasn't been in GW from the very beginning shouldn't be able to get anything high end? Is that what you think?"
 * Yet there are some things, such as previous festival hats and promo minis such, that newer players currently have no way of ever being able to get outside of player trades - which usually for such items tend to be beyond the financial reach of most players. So some concession to newer players ought to be made to compensate for that. And also, I never understood the need for a player-driven economy in the first place. Why not just switch all traders to the merchant model and thus give all items a fixed, unchanging price and selling value (one that is an average of what the player-driven value has been over time)? Just a thought. --Nathe 17:43, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "So some concession to newer players ought to be made to compensate for that."
 * "Why not just switch all traders to the merchant model and thus give all items a fixed, unchanging price and selling value (one that is an average of what the player-driven value has been over time)?"
 * Who said anything about buying rare weapon skins from merchants? What I was referring to are things like mats and dyes, whose prices fluctuate. Not skins. So it doesn't destroy anything when you limit it like that. And it makes getting those mats and rare dyes a little easier because there's no uncertainty over their value anymore. You'll know how much you need. And GW may be getting old, but Anet has said they're not shutting down as long as there are people playing it. And unless you have some kind of tracker than tells you specifically how many people are playing on a given day, you have no way of knowing just how many that is and whether it's going up or down. All you have is a guess, nothing more. --Nathe 20:45, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. Yes, that is what I think. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 21:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you really think that newer players or those who aren't extreme hardcore shouldn't ever have even a single piece of high end gear, then you are acting like an arrogant, elitist prick, Felix. Get over yourself and act like a human being for once. If you know how, that is. --Nathe 22:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you feel that way. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 22:37, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What makes it any harder for a newer player to acquire high end items without permsin/600/smite farming than it is for anyone else? Other than learning skills, once a character has max level armor (which should happen by the time they are lvl 20) every player has to earn money to buy stuff. In fact, new players in NF have a distinct advantage for the first few months at least as the Treasures will give them a relatively easy 20-30k each round. Yes, I have been playing for almost 4 years, but I don't have stockpiles of ectos, or cash. If I want a high end item, or a new set of elite armor I either play for it, or I play to earn the $$ to buy it. This should be the same as what a new player has to do. Yes, of course, a new player isn't going to be able to instantly gain 5 elite sets of armor, or 30 maxed titles, but then they shouldn't either. Dedication and time spent should have some rewards/benefits. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  22:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I have things like several elite armors, two tabs of miniatures, and a even PvE character with all skills learned, ALL 1319 OF THEM, and my other 9 characters have at least all the skills of the primary profession. I got that without farming, so anyone should be able too. People should stop leaving items lying around and then go farm for that one drop or kind of item that will fill your purse. This is not Diablo. GW doesn't have that kind of drops. In GW, you pick up everything and sell it to get real cash. A white can sell for over 100 gold, and a rare for over 600. So, if anyone leaves all those long swords just because they are white or have a common skin, then they have no right to complain about money. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 01:47, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess you misunderstood me, Wyn, and I'm sorry for that, but what I meant was, high end items shouldn't be reserved only for those with 50000 hours a week to spend on GW. It should take some work, yes, but not so much that it burns people out by the time they get it, or that it takes literally years to get such things. No game should take that long to get everything. And Mith, scrimping and selling is good, but it still takes ages to get armor sets and such that cost in the 70k-80k range. And that's too long. --Nathe 13:55, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Excepting the Obsidian armor, it takes no more than a month or normal saving to get an elite armor. Of course there are other things to spend gold at, but as I said, if they really manage to slow down things, then it won't harm to look at pricing. IF they made them cheaper already all their prestige value would disappear, but if you can't get over 100k in little time like now, then it won't be so unthinkable to change prices. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 15:13, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it so important to equip more expensive things on your character or heroes, especially when the expensive things are actually more common generally? Chaos Gloves are perhaps the most common gloves used, so why is it "better" to look like everyone else? If these rarer items were actually more powerful than more common ones, I would understand the hubbub. I'm not saying the relative difficulty of changing your character's appearance is completely beneath attention, but isn't the truly important thing that newer players can obtain maximum-effectiveness equipment fairly easily? <font color="#008800">Manifold [[Image:User_Manifold_Jupiter.jpg|19px]] 20:49, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying they should be easy to get, just that they should be gettable in the first place. Which now with the update, is near impossible to do in a decent amount of time for everyone except the super rich. --Nathe 16:27, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't have a PvE assassin. My floating level in my stash is ~2-300k, I've bought multiple sets of elite armor and have my own shinies such as a req 9 inscribable Eternal Bow and Chaos Axe. I am not a "power player", in fact I barely play and most of my hours are in PvP. I've actually been giving away most of my accrued wealth. It wasn't impossible to get high end PvE items before without Shadowform and only through hard core farming and it isn't impossible now. I did it without even really playing =/ <font color="#A55858">Misery  16:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Explain how you got that much money by not even playing, please. The math doesn't add up. --Nathe 22:10, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * He played the game without constantly bitching. Try it sometime. King Neoterikos 23:26, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Log in 2-3 hours a week, farm nick gifts, PvP a bit, get keys. Sell stuff. I had amber lying around from ages ago, got 8 more, Nick gifts on main and smurf got me some red rock candies. Easy 30k. Probably won't play next week. I used to farm spiders a bit with one hand while doing something else, maxed my Sunspear and got a fair bit doing that. No, I didn't need shadow form. I think my long term average is about an hour a day including afk and PvP. <font color="#A55858">Misery  23:33, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And for those who don't want to PvP or trade with other people? What then? --Nathe 20:49, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What makes you think you deserve nice things when you don't even want to play the entire game? [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 20:52, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * My main character - my ranger - has beaten all 3 campaigns plus EOTN, is on the last quest for Sorrow's Furnace, and has finished some of the EOTN dungeons. Sure I'm still working on things, but over time I've been able to get him his elite armor (Monument), and a set for a few other characters of mine as well. And I've got a few ectos, amber and jade, and some greens and good golds and tomes from drops or guildies - I guess I should've have said, "those who don't want to trade with strangers" instead of just "people". I've been in GW for over a year now, but by your logic, I shouldn't have any of what I have. Which makes no sense. Except maybe in your little elitist mind. Nobody should be forced to play all parts of a game to get some high end gear. And considering just how long it takes to max out everything (HoM, titles, etc.), it takes far too much time at present to do so.


 * Speaking of the HoM, that is now much harder to fill because many of the things required to fill it up are very expensive (multiple sets of elite armor - more than just a few are needed to max out the armor monument - as well as quite a few tormented/destroyer weapons for maxing the weapons monument and enough minis to fill up the devotion monument - which can be very expensive depending on what mini you're getting). So the hardcore players will get more out of it in GW2 than those who can't afford to fill it up. Which isn't right. The benefit in GW2 from the HoM should be the same regardless of how much of your HoM is filled or not filled. --Nathe 15:05, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That last line makes absolutely no sense. Of course people that do more things in GW1 should get more out of it than those that don't. Do you, as someone that has played for a year, want someone that picks up a copy of GW1 the day before GW2 is released to get the same benefit you did? <font color="Black">-- <font color="#0104C6">FreedomBound [[Image:User_Freedom_Bound_Sig.png|19px]] 15:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I merch everything. I never sell to anyone. Your argument is invalid. I have merched things that would make people cry. Also, way to miss my point about PvP. I was basically saying that my time in PvP is non-productive, I don't get any return out of it. This is especially true of my pre-zkeys PvP time and guildhopping to BYOB for pathetic faction. Also also, I am not even trying to fill my hall of monuments. What do you think the rewards are going to be? They aren't going to be game breaking. It will be things like unique skins, a title you can wear, pretty costumes and maybe an emote. These are all things I don't care about. If people with a full hall of monuments get a tangible advantage or improvement to their gameplay experience (weapons with betters stats or something), I simply won't play. If you are arguing you should be able to unlock everything in the game in less time than everyone else who started before you, there is no basis for that argument at all. <font color="#A55858">Misery  15:28, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I just don't think it should take 5 years to get everything, is all. Of course it'll take some time, I understand that. It just shouldn't be excessive, is all. --Nathe 16:04, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * How long should it take? Exactly as long as you have been playing plus the time until GW2 is released? Yes, that seems fair. Did I mention I haven't played for two years during the time I've had the game? <font color="#A55858">Misery  16:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would take a very long time if, let's say, you wanted to max out every title on a single character. However, I am confused on the lack of money after a year. I don't want to sound pretentious, but I only played for 2 years before moving on, though I did come back for three months to fill up my HoM and do a round of EotN before leaving again. My point being, that in roughly two years, I stockpiled around 4200k and some other goodies. Before you say I played thousands of hours a week, I can assure you I only played 30-40 a week. Also, I do know of a few others, such as my main officer, and two other guild leaders that had amassed a large sum as well during that 2 year period. Money is not an issue in this game. If you want a decent sum that will take care of most of your needs, farming is not needed. However, if you want a ton of platinum to max out titles, look pretty, or just because, then farming is a must. I used my warrior, 55 mesmer, 55 monk, sv necro, and sliver ele back then, but I'm sure things have changed. Don't buy keys or lockpicks if you are really trying to save every little bit and have a bad retention rate. Use Reward trophies if you need to buy Salvage Armor Kits. Keep plenty of bag space and keep playing through the game. I don't think people realize how much money they actually make just doing quests/missions/vanquishing. Maybe some of that will help your money issue and get you those shinies you want. &mdash; Gares 17:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh FFS, let's not... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 19:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

....for grind
Let's pick something more reasonable, like say just a full Hall of Monuments...on just ONE character since you'll only need one to unlock that stuff in Gw2. That means: "Honor" and "Fellowship" -- which tie in together because if you get the RainbowPhoenix then you're one step closer on Fellowship too. And just having 2 Campaigns (doesn't matter so much which ones) makes those easy enough even though they're both real Oddballs. But you don't need to "farm" to get either, you just need a good solid team/build. "Resilience" and "Valor" are a bit tougher financially but they're VANITY titles so whatya expect? ...I'm halfway there on both of them myself and all I've had to do is "farm" some HM mobs outside Sardelac... Who can't do that? Last time I checked, stupid rocks with a no Elite were pushovers--The silliest part is just how often they drop Rubies & Charcoal in addition to the Granite you need for "Valor". Using the Office-Space Metric, I've probably only done about 200 hours of actual work in this area but I've got 5 stacks of Granite. .......That leaves "Devotion"... Okay, way too luck based... some of us have reported getting way too many Mandrogar Imps as far as probabilities go. If they're bugged (no pun intended) from some kind of Random Number Gen oversight then yeah we have a good reason to chew out Anet here... but so far no one's started the right research page to prove it. But even with them taking up say... 15% of your drops, a 5-year player with between 4 and 8 characters will probably reach their quota on Minis anyway... and if they don't, then they could just call up some of their old friends who stopped playing a long time ago and beg some off them. That's what I plan to do... assuming this new Login-feature Anet added doesn't screw that all up. Speaking for myself, I'm going to have all of these before the GW2 beta starts and I've never even been to FoW/UW/ToPK... plus I've got ADHD like you wouldn't believe. Again, using the Office Space model... this probably only amounts to 1 year of actual work and 5 years of waiting on mules to collect Bday Minis. Unless the Drunkard reward makes you sing like Amy Winehouse, All other titles not in these categories are so far beyond OBSCURE Vanity that other players in Gw2 won't even know what they're about even when they're looking right at whatever trinket you might get for them. IoW: they won't impress chicks & get you laid so just drop it. -- ilr  19:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * As I've never watched Office Space, I'm unfamiliar with the metric you're talking about - and why use one from a fictional show anyway? And is reducing the overall grind in the game really that bad? And to Gares, most of my money has gone to getting several of my characters elite armor - about 4 out of the 9 who can have it have it (my 10th character is a permapre). Not to mention getting all my characters a wide assortment of skills - 1k per skill adds up fast across 9 characters. Only one of my characters has finished all the campaigns, and the rest have finished no more than two, and in some cases only one. Getting them all good runes and insignias gets a bit expensive too, though I do use what drops I can. --Nathe 20:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Nathe, you seem to have it lodged in your brain that I'm an elitist. Frankly, you couldn't be farther off the mark. I have played Guild Wars for three and a half years. The first year I only owned Prophecies. I didn't start doing high-level pvp until last fall. I don't have any Obsidian armor, and my ranger only has Chaos Gloves because I stole the ecto from Vili. I have never had more than 200k at once. But you know what I do have? 21 maxed titles on my ranger, at least one set of elite armor on all of my 10 characters- my ranger has 4, monk has 3, paragon, warrior, assassin, and necromancer all have 2. I have plenty of nice-looking gear, including Tormented weapons, Voltaic Spears, Draconic Aegi, Chaos Axes, Fellblades, Frog Scepters, Celestial Compasses, and some 200+ additional pretty things on my mule account. I have so many mini-pets that I open birthday presents and give the contents away now. And guess what? I've never done a UWSC, SoOSC, or any of that garbage. I get my money from doing FoW, The Deep, dungeons, and HM areas with my guildmates or h/h. I haven't solo farmed anything in over a year. So if you need to rely on Shadow Form to make money, you're just a bad player. That is the bottom line, I'm afraid. The real problem here is that you are selfish. You want everything the easy way, even though thousands of other players actually had to put effort into playing the game to get their shiny things. You clearly have no concept of work-and-reward, because if you did, you would realize that no one would play a game where the time you put into it is meaningless. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 21:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry Nathe, didn't even cross my mind that there'd be someone computer-literate who's never seen it. By that metric, I'm referring to how typically any of us with strong Alt-itus (splitting our time fairly evenly between more than 1 character) on any given day, generally spend greater than 75% of our time doing things like:  Traveling and Merching, standing around waiting for a PuG on harder missions, watching a loading screen, hiking through explorables to unlock more areas/skills, and all the other things we have to do in between the time we actually spend working on these specific Titles or Achievements.   That is to say, less than 25% of our time could even go directly into non-stop farming and grinding.... real actual work undivided and  towards the topic of this section.  As for reducing that overall grind... they already did in several ways (some of them directly).  EotN PvE skills being the most obvious examples.  Just having the right ones can cut this 75% "Jaggin-Off" time in half!  Now I dunno WTF Felix was going with this testimonial, but I'm assuming you're more like me and you don't have an active Guild, and you don't have a ton of Greens, and you don't have any friends with stacks of Ectos.  ...I think that's great too.  And I know it hasn't stopped me from being within striking distance of all the HoM Rewards that will really be worth getting.  Or atleast until we actually see all the Gw2-HoM reward details.  So let's wait till then before we make a federal case about the grind times on the rest of that crap we have no interest in grinding. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 22:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Let me make a few corrections to your perceptions, Felix. Most of the stuff I've gotten, I got without SF farming - I only got into that a couple months ago, and only from time to time because it got tedious farming TotPK over and over again. So I actually didn't do it as much as you think I did. And actually, I don't use gimmick builds for the most part but play the classes as they're made for what they're meant to do. And as I've only been in GW for just over a year, I haven't gotten through all the dungeons yet. Some, but not all. Haven't maxed any titles yet, but I haven't really started working on that because I'm still trying to get all my characters through all the campaigns - only one has finished all of them, the rest no more than two. A few have elite armor, but not all of them yet. And I do have some greens and nice golds. So let me get it through to you again - most of what I have doesn't come from SF farming. But at the same time, I do have a family I share my life with, and so the use of SF was more as a time-saver to me than a cheat. I guess it never even occurred to you to think that maybe not everyone who used it did so to cheat but rather in some cases just to save time because there is so much to do in the game and not everyone has 100000 hours a week to do it in. By your definition I shouldn't have any of what I have, simply because I haven't been around as long as you have. That's why I called you an elitist. You said you give away minis, but do you ever give away greens or golds or rare mats? Just asking, because you left that out.

Oh, and ilr, I do have a guild, Heaven Seal - the only one I've ever been in or needed to be in. I'm not the guildmaster, but I am an officer, and we're geared toward helping new players learn the game and get better at it. I was lucky to find them when I first started. It's not a big guild, but we're relaxed and get along well and help each other. But you're right in that I don't have piles and piles of greens like some people do. -Nathe
 * @Nathe: I think you missed the part where all the above said that they DON'T play 100000 hours a week. I mean, I'm lucky if I can pull 14 hours (half of which is spent sitting in the guild hall chatting with friends) a week (when I'm not busy with some other game) and I have my fair share of shinies. Sitting on 15+ sets of elite armor and counting, along with a handful of nice golds and a crap-load of greens. Add to that a good hand-full of maxed titles, with plenty more on their way. The awesome stuff is within easy reach, even if you don't have hundreds of hours to infest a week. It seems you have a bad case of alt-itis though, and considering I sink most of my time into a single character or maybe two... *shrugs* &mdash; Jon  [[Image:User_Jon_Lupen_Sig_Image.png|18px]]  Lupen  16:39, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ^this^ ...infact it sounds like Nathe could burn-out if he keeps up that pace -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 17:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I only have one character that has completed more than one campaign. You are wasting your time if you are trying to fill a HoM. I also have given away greens, golds and rare mats ^__________^ <font color="#A55858">Misery  16:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't even pick up Greens. They're for noobs. If you can't put time into the game, you shouldn't get anything out of it. [[Image:User_Felix_Omni_Signature.png]]elix Omni 19:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm just going to address the OP on this one.
 * 1) Please keep in mind that those skill update previews are written by the developers. Not me. So they aren't actually my notes.
 * 2) The Developer Update posted four days after your question should answer it. It's located here: http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/developer_updates/february_2010_skill_balances.php
 * The reason the changes to Shadow Form and other farming builds were not explained during the skill preview is because... Well, it's a skill preview. The full explanation comes with the Developer Update and the actual game update. Thank you. -- Regina Buenaobra [[Image:User_Regina_Buenaobra_sig.png]] 21:50, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Update.
When are we going to get it? --Boro 09:42, 20 February 2010 (UTC) - Skill update preview 19th February. <font color="#bb00bb" size="3px">~Celestia 09:46, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Currently, it looks like the update will be ready on Thursday, February 25th."

charr females!!!!!!!!! Guild in gw2 details and more!!!
http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/250/guild-wars-2-developer-interview. That is so awesome Regina!! We Want More, We Want More!! -- S ilverleaf    Don't assume, Know! 15:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC) Hey, furries are people too. , then someone can definitely get blocked for "attacks on all furry lovers individually" . <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:28, 23 February 2010  (UTC) gross. –Jette 18:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC) Yeah, WoW had to implement cross-servers in mid 2006 or they couldn't have battlegroups for their BGs/Arenas. Sometimes it's the only way to do things. It's the reasoning and how ANet uses theirs that will set them apart. The weak racial skills and limited to profession weapons have been around sinice 1974 with DnD. &mdash; Gares 20:04, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * WvW PvP, separate servers, weak racial specific skills, and weapons that are limited by profession? ......oh yea....this doesn't sound like WoW at all..... <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:User Karate Jesus KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:29, 23 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Eh... they barely mention charr females there. I think that I have seen only one. If that was a female charr, it seems charr females have smaller horns, seem to be based in 'smaller', or at least 'slimmer' felines, with longer tails that bear longer hair at the end. I think 'fluffy' would be the word. The one I saw had a cheetah-like head. Luckily for us - yet unfortunately for those sick, sick furry perverts - they seem to be well designed, and do look like Charr females, with female feline traits, instead humanoid feline traits. I mean, they won't be just 'bossomed charr' nor 'catwomen'. Or at least I hope so. Mith[[Image:User MithranArkanere Star.png]]Talk 15:47, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * More like AION? -- S ilverleaf   [[Image:User Silverleaf sig.png|Special:Contributions/Silverleaf]] Don't assume, Know! 16:50, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "those sick, sick furry perverts"
 * KJ, have you not been keeping up? WvW was announced ages ago. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:13, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Kyoshi, it is no NPA, because it isn't directly directed to someone on this wiki. (Or do you know a furry being on this wiki? =P) -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 17:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * User:Ryuu Desu. NPA vio stands, time to burn a witch!  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  17:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol! *Grabs torch* Burn the witch! -- Cyan [[Image:User Cyan Light sig.jpg|19px]] 17:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict x2) I would claim to be a furry for the lulz, but seeing as I'm mostly serious, no. So if there were a furry on this wiki, it would be a personal attack? Maybe NPA isn't the right term for it, but just like this Nazi thing that I heard commotion about a while ago, it could offend somebody. (Not to compare furries to Nazis, of course. If I had a nickel for every time I heard that...)
 * But whatever, it seems unnecessary and I have made my point thusly. Carry on. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If someone can get blocked for "attacks on all black people individually"
 * Basically my point, but since the point has been made I don't really see any need to pursue it. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ryuu isn't a furry, he's like the wiki family pet. Anyway, "charr females"
 * Dear Wiki bigots:  F-Y-I-A-D...   PS: WTF did any of this have to do with Regina?  Does she even deliver any comments to Flannum?  If so then I got some more important questions for MISTER MARDUK (he'd get that reference)  -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 20:39, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "WvW PvP, separate servers, weak racial specific skills, and weapons that are limited by profession? ......oh yea....this doesn't sound like WoW at all....."

Lol. Have fun competing with ToR & WoW. Where's my lightsaber again?--TahiriVeila 20:14, 23 February 2010 (UTC) fuck off. "We also want to make it easier to stay connected with your guild mates, so we’re introducing features like a guild calendar to make meeting and coordinating across time zones easier, and participating in guild chat from any web browser so you can stay in touch even when you can’t play." EPIC WIN!!1! - Wuhy  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 21:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC) couldn't be more wrong on that one - Wuhy  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 21:12, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * GW1 managed just fine on that front, apparently. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 20:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * On second thought, I do have a comment specifically for Regina regarding this as it's P.R. related: You should strongly urge them to back away from this WvW acronym and just get back to oldschool with RvR (Realm vs Realm).  There's way too much "Gw2 is trying to be Wow" comparisons out there already... -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 20:54, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * GW1 never even came close to competeing with WoW when WoW was the only significant competition on the market. When ToR goes live (it's a year out and they're projecting a min 3mil userbase at launch) and WoW holds a similar population (5-6mil range) GW2 is going to have a hard time competing when it doesn't seem to offering anything considerably different than either of the above do.--TahiriVeila 20:59, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "so it will be possible to have different characters in different guilds."
 * "GW2 is going to have a hard time competing when it doesn't seem to offering anything considerably different than either of the above do."
 * Care to explain that one? -- <font color="Black">Tha Reckoning [[Image:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg|19x19px]] 21:16, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * OMG, No subscription fee isn't "considerably different" to you? Can I have some of Ur money then plz??   ...again, GW1 sold over 6 mil... Let's stop debating this plz.  In any case, This isn't the place for sales predictions and the original post here shouldn't have been a jumping off point.  They're GOING to be giving us more info (on skill/combat mechanics), this was confirmed last year so there's no point in demanding MOAR this early. -- ilr [[image:User_ilr_deprav.png]] 21:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ^that + pvp(wow pvp doesn't count) + so I herd they are gonna make pve awesome + WvW with there strategical awesomenesses sounds nice + restricted skill number + it will be able to play on a shitty laptop + you can use the guild chat with a browser + + + ++++++ - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]]<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 21:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Now they released the Novel of Gw2, Seems they are just trying to pull the most money out of players as its possible, What more they are gonna release about the game that you cant play yet. Enough of dumb gadgets and start working on dumb update -.- --217.153.126.66 05:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * people contracted to write a novel on lore for gw2 impacts gw1 development how exactly? MAFARAXAS 15:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They tend to be better at balancing the game.On a more serious note : Alot of people bought gw because it was a pvp game.I realise atleast 60% were just cheapskates (wich is fine I'm a cheapskate that likes pvp).At launch GW was completely different from WoW.TBH GW 2 looks like wow but diff graphics.Its like pulling out the graphics and storyline chip and putting in another.To bad we need a awesome pvp game Yeah, no, Yeah. Lilondra  [[Image:User_Lilondra_Sig.jpg|21x21px]] 16:06, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * GW2 will still be totaly different from wow, it will have a events where in wow its all about grinding quests.
 * also wow pvp balance is a joke, its like SF in pvp.84.196.205.90 15:57, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * actually, wow pvp design is a joke. no character has a role because you can take a shitload of skills on your bar, its gear dependent, the skills are retarded, you play 2v2/3v3/5v5 deathmatches and thats it.. - Wuhy  [[Image:User_Wuhy_sig.jpg]]<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1"> 20:48, 26 February 2010 (UTC)