Talk:Fort Aspenwood

Solution to the Monk Imbalance in FA?
The solution to the overpowered monks in FA, on the Luxon side healing the turtles and on the Kurzick side bonding, is to limit one monk per FA match both on the Kurzick and Luxon side. This way, both gates won't be bonded and both turtles won't be protected. I believe they do it in PVP all the time, RA, by limiting a team to 1-2 monks. You can also do this for rits as well. One rit per match.
 * That would be kinda ridiculous, tbh. If someone would want to play monk or ritualist, they'd have to wait 20-30 minutes to get in a match. Not to mention, they can still heal with necromancers and mesmers and elementalists and whatever they want to get around it. I would prefer that the match-making is more like the Codex Arena, though. No more than two of a single profession, it would make teams more balanced in general (though, in some cases, longer wait times). -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  18:02, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Edit: please post new sections at the bottom of the page and sign your comments with ~ . -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  18:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Now, that's a logical fallacy, i.e. slippery slope. The wait times won't be 20-30 minutes, you're just making a big jump in conclusion. Let's say there are approximately 15 FA matches going on and each one resets every 30 seconds. That's 1 monk per every 30 seconds based on order. There are 12 classes. Do the math, that's one monk that NEEDS to go into a FA match every 30 seconds which contrasts to other classes, maybe 45-50 seconds. Meh, but two monks is also ridiculous. It's bonding for both gates and protection for both turtles. How about each match NEEDING to have 1 monk and 1 rit. Monks and rits will therefore have their waiting time lessened. Btw, you don't see monks and rits in all the matches you play do you? It thus signifies that most of the players who play FA, or at least the majority of the players, are not monks nor are they rits. Now to your second argument, how many times do you see a healing ele or a healing mesmer? I can tell you, not very many, in FA at least.
 * x 2 It's not a big jump. There are not 15 matches going on, ever. If regular wait times are several minutes, and there are (example) five monks already entering, you're waiting in line for (example) four timer resets per enter (2 minutes, a relatively quick wait time), you're looking on a 10 minute wait on a good day. Don't even get me started on weekends or z-days. Requiring one monk and one ritualist doesn't make things any better (in fact, worse, by requiring two healers). This is all irrelevant, because like I said, there is no fix Even if there aren't many now, there will be if such a rule is made. Also, please use the "Show Preview" button to finalize your comment before you post it, multiple edits make it hard to respond. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  18:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Solution to the monk imbalance in FA - bring a mesmer. - Auron 19:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I wish I could bring 7 wrack mesmers, but I unfortunately can't... I was playing a match the other night. We got into the green gate with 1/2 the time remaining, still somehow couldn't kill gunthor even though we had both turtles assaulting. They had 3 monks healing them and a healer rit...
 * If you get a good team, it doesn't matter how many healers they have. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  16:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if I get a good team with let's say 5 mindwrack mesmers from top GVG guild and 3 interrupt rangers from a top GVG guild, it would still be difficult to face off against 8 monks in FA, if you're on the luxon side. Bonding and WoH gates, won't get through... The victory of a team shouldn't be majorly hedged on whether or not you have a monk or not, but unfortunately it is. We thus need to limit the amount of monks in aspenwood.
 * If a team full of good mesmers and rangers can't disable a team full of healers, then standards for good mesmers and rangers are obviously not very high. You can read my definition of a good team above, it certainly isn't a group without damage like you suggest. Barring specific professions is never a good idea (I don't even wanna think about all the QQ's), especially since profession is almost trivial. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  03:49, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * We're not barring specific professions, we're only limiting them. Limiting professions is a good thing, if there's no way to win without that specific profession or if there's no way to win if there are too many on one side.
 * They're the same thing. No, it's never a good thing. A good idea would be to actually fix the problem, rather than stop people who like to play certain professions. Here's an example of what happens when you bar multiple monks: match is now decided on how many rangers the Kurzick side has and how many elementalists the Luxon side has, they are "imbalanced" in FA, now we bar multiple rangers and elementalists, now the game is decided on who has more mesmers, they are "imbalanced" in FA..... -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк)  15:57, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see the point you're making? It's either this or nerf monks in pvp or another solution. The problem is the fact that Fort Aspenwood is dependent on monks for either side too much. Wayy tooo much. Most of the time, the victor is decided on how many monks a team has. It shouldn't be that way. Your point doesn't stand because mesmers and rangers don't really decide a match as much as monks do in FA. When I look at a mesmer on my team I don't go, joy! yay! we're going to win. When I see one or two monks on my team I go yay, we got this in the bag. Yes, we do limit professions. We do so in pvp to 2 and not every match has a monk in pvp which signifies that all monks that want to play in pvp are playing.
 * ummm i missed something. where does pvp limit professions to 2?The Emmisary 21:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player It doesn't limit every profession to two, but only monks to two.
 * ye.......no it doesn't say that anywhere.The Emmisary 01:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * stubbs

Gunther + ROJ???
I have been seeing this happen a lot recently once luxon gets past green gate and it makes it unfairly difficult to defend against it. How are Kurzicks supposed to keep Gunther alive when they have 2-3 monks killing him?
 * Don't let them get to Gunther in the first place. Don't whine about something taking away your easy win, either. You might have to rely on teamwork for once! You aren't supposed to be able to win on the backs of players. <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Flaming never gets old, eh?. Its important to look at the messages displayed during the course of the battle, sometimes I despise both teams for the lack of awareness. Once they destroyed the inner gates, you must go back and defend. Constant interrupts, degen and healing will stop any solo RoJ monk, you have a radar, just anticipate them.--ShadowFog 02:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It never will. Also, MoR makes the life of a nuker much easier. Healers backing the RoJ nukers makes them almost unstoppable! Gotta hate teamwork. <>Sparky, the Tainted 05:11, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * People here are funny. WTB P-Block? Or wait, that would take too much skill for the average player, especially on a cast time of less than 10 seconds. Also, learn to kill the healer? Also, learn to bodyblock? Seriously, it takes like 4 people to bodyblock a gate. That's why it's not hard to win FA at all... -- 19:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Until you get two Siege Turtles blasting at you through a broken gate... Also, it's really hard to kill the RoJ or the healer when they've got other healers backing them. Elysea  [[Image:User_Elysea_ElyseaSignatureImage.jpg|19px]] 20:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you don't let them get that far. And you can still easily outpressure multiple healers, just don't be an idiot. :) -- 20:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're suggesting a bodyblock... against teams full of RoJ monks. I now see why Kurzicks lose as often as they do. Thanks for the insight. - Auron 20:12, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed that comment. >.> All bodyblocking RoJ Monks does is provide a nice, easy target for multiple RoJs.  There's a reason I play JQ.  Elysea  [[Image:User_Elysea_ElyseaSignatureImage.jpg|19px]] 21:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, RoJ isn't hard to outheal, Auron. And I win at least 9 out of 10 games as a Kurzick, thank you. I see 1, maybe 2 RoJ monks at most on the enemy team; rarely ever are they smart enough to coordinate. And yeah, having 4 players die is prefferable to having Gunther die, kthxbai. -- Gah_  01:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

And anyway, you just step back 2 inches out of RoJ's abnormally small range and you can still maintain the bodyblock. But intuition isn't exactly prevalent here... -- Gah_  01:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * RoJ, by itself, isn't hard to outheal. In JQ I just spam Dismiss Condition.  But when you've got an RoJ Monk, and for example, an Ele, Assassin and Warrior all pounding on Gunther, it becomes an entirely different problem.  Or five RoJ Monks, as what has happened one of my matches.  Also, yes, it's better to have four players die instead of Gunther, but when those four players die, uhh... what happens to the bodyblock?  It's easy to say, "Just step out of it hurrr," but if you really are bodyblocking the Luxons at the gate, stepping out could mean that you let an Assassin or a Warrior in, and there goes Gunther.  You can't make sweeping generalisations about FA without recognising that every match is different, every situation is different.  Elysea  [[Image:User_Elysea_ElyseaSignatureImage.jpg|19px]] 01:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Your theorycrafting is bullshit. Two 250-damage earshot-range blasts every 15 seconds that can't be protted against is more than any monk can put up with regardless of skill or build if the opposing time has even a minute trace of pressure.  Can RoJ monks be beaten?  Of course they can; most of them are idiots anyway and I get them in one burst of Searing Flooms, and RoJ is pitifully easy to interrupt anyway.  But every RoJ creates a lot of pressure because they have a tendency to heal and/or prot as they wait for their stupid elite to recharge, and those 4 Luxon Warriors huddling around them make it very difficult to bring them down without proper monk support, which is almost impossible to rely upon.  Kurzick have a 100% advantage until the green gate is breached -- after that it's over.  Two turtles that can't be killed because of the bottleneck is game fucking over.  If anybody feels like arguing with me here, feel free to FRAPS a game and put it on youtube, because I don't feel like listening to "herp a dee derp, prot gunther!"  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:37, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Like any other random format, FA cannot really be balanced as it relies too much on what team people spawn with. If the Luxons have two good healers and two good RoJs, against a Kurzick team made entirely of elementalists, warriors and paragons, the Luxons will win; if the Kurzicks have two good monks against a Luxon team made entirely of necromancers with bad builds and dervishes, the Kurzicks will win.
 * Regardless, though, most of the time both sides won't really care about strategy. The Luxons won't bother coordinating attacks with each other, and the Kurzicks won't bother running amber. Erasculio 01:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How are [we] supposed to keep [him] alive when they have 2-3 monks killing him? 
 * LOL, four years ago, I never thought I'd hear anyone say that. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 02:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

(Resetting indent.) Despite being a dedicated Kurzick player, I have to say that FA actually IS relatively balanced in terms of the playing field and the environment. I've seen the complaints and arguments from both sides, and both sides have valid points. It is, however, a map whereby the composition of the Kurzick team can pretty much dictate right from the start whether you'll win or lose.

Simply put, the Kurzicks needneedneedneedneedNEED healers, or they WILL lose. (Unless the Luxon team is totally unfocused and wastes time killing other Kurzick players instead of forcing their way into the base.) If FA can be claimed to be imbalanced, it will have to be on this point; the Kurzicks MUST have a healer, or it will be exceedingly difficult for them to win. Even a single healer can greatly boost Gunther's survival chances once Green gate goes down. Two or three healers can make it next to impossible for the Luxons to kill Gunther. I have had matches where the Luxons tore their way into Green in the first 2 or 3 minutes, and then we just held out there until time ran out.

Conversely, if the Kurzicks have no healers, the Luxons can pretty much just huddle around the Turtles and let them do all the work, killing any Kurzicks who come too close or who try to interrupt/stall them. Kurzicks capped the mines? Maybe even the command posts? Who cares, just keep escorting the Turtle through the gates! A healer on each Turtle can keep Turtles alive easily, and even if the Kurzicks repair a gate (and you can kill any Kurzicks trying to run amber past you), it matters very little because Turtles can bring down a gate in under 30 seconds, more time than it takes the Kurzicks to run another amber chunk. As long as the Siege Turtles are alive and firing, it doesn't matter what the Kurzicks do in your base. It all comes down to whether the Kurzicks have healers, and therefore are able to stop the Turtles from breaking through the gates.

Bodyblocking the Luxons at the gates doesn't really work, because not only do you provide a tempting target for Turtle Siege, it also makes you highly vulnerable to RoJ and other AoE spells, as others have said. The enchantment stripping of Turtle Siege is annoying, but it can be worked around. Send people out the teleporter to distract the Turtles from firing inside Green gate. (The bodyguards make quick work of people trying to attack the Turtles in melee, so just shoot them from range.) Use cover enchantments on Gunther. Use spirits and weapon spells. (Especially the last two, since most Luxon teams will have an enchant stripper or two.)

In all the years I've played FA, I can honestly say that I have about a 50:50 win-loss ratio. The environment and NPCs ARE fairly balanced, but like most random PvP, it all comes down to whether or not you have a good team. (And whether the opposing team is good.) I can think of ways to help reduce the dependency on team composition, but I think I'll leave that for another post. This one's long enough already. - Zaxares 02:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Team composition certainly is important; but not that much. What matters is coordination. No, one amber runner can't stop the turtles from advancing. No, one person can't kill a turtle, nor can four hold a bodyblock. On the opposite side, 1 person can't destroy a gate with a decent monk on it, or kill Gunther with 8 Kurzicks pounding on him. The game is decided on coordination of the team and their knowledge/suitability of/to the environment. You don't even need a healer if your team -- your full team -- will run amber. Kurzicks simply have more classes that work for them.

In response to some above me: Jette - "Kurzick have a 100% advantage until the green gate is breached -- after that it's over." No, with an intelligent (or at least quickly responsive) team, you can keep Gunther alive for 85% of the game (and if Luxons break green before 15%, Kurzicks are doing something wrong).

Elysea - "Also, yes, it's better to have four players die instead of Gunther, but when those four players die, uhh... what happens to the bodyblock?" The other four step up for the 9 seconds it will take for the others to rez and get back to the gate. Besides, that's another 10 seconds Turtle Siege has to recharge, and 20 for RoJ. A well-coordinated team can keep Luxons from ever getting in Green, even if it's broken.

Auron - I haz a userboax 4 u:

Also, in general - I speak from the experience of 2000+ matches on both sides, before and after the update. I'm not randomly spouting whatever comes into mind like 90% of wikiers.

Maybe more to come after this wall of text. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  13:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "an intelligent (or at least quickly responsive) team"


 * That's rich. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 13:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They're not that uncommon. At least half my team every round knows what they're doing, and the rest usually listen. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  13:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, you can consider yourself quite lucky, because rare is the day I can find an intelligent or cooperative team. They're not all drooling retards, but the way they work together you'd think every one of us had some sort of severe asocial disorder (which I'm really beginning to consider as a serious possibility).  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 14:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see that more often on Luxon side, as most of the good players left when Anet decided to show their retardedness in a whole new way, and a lot never came back. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  14:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

"Also, learn to bodyblock? Seriously, it takes like 4 people to bodyblock a gate." "Side Step." Stop contradicting yourself. AoE damage is precisely how to break a bodyblock - I did it in tombs on a regular basis (where bodyblocking is a much more common tactic, and teams actually know how to play the game compared to random shitters in a bad PvP format). If your bodyblockers are stupid enough to stand still, they die. If they're "smart" enough to move out of the way, the bodyblock just failed. That's how the game works. You can't move out of the way and maintain a bodyblock, RoJ's AoE range is too big. In conclusion, stop being bad at the game and offering terrible advice. Thanks in advance :D - Auron 18:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hint: have everyone move together. --174.99.112.190 19:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In Fort Aspenwood, an 8man arena with completely random teams, you want these 4 supposed bodyblockers to be coordinated enough firstly to form this bodyblock, and secondly to move in unison when AoE damage comes in?
 * Seriously? I mean, you aren't kidding about your suggestion? Cos it seems that you haven't actually thought about this in reality. This is fort aspenwood we're talking about here. People struggle with moving bodyblocks in GvG, which, as everyone knows, is where the best PvPers play. A bunch of randoms without vent and actual play experience are supposed to move, in sync and without opening a gap, when AoEs start flowing in? Then they're supposed to move back into place once the AoEs finish (assuming, of course, that the other team only has one person with aoe spells)?
 * That's actually the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Amusing, though, to say the least. - Auron 19:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All it takes is a few words in chat. I'm not crap theorycrafting, I wouldn't say this if I hadn't actually done it. Here's the thing: when you get out, 90% of the players from your last round will immediately hit enter again, meaning usually at least half your previous team is with you again. After a couple rounds, they begin to catch on. For me, at least, I play FA for as much as 5 hours at a time, and I see a lot of the same people from day to day. It's not hard to "coordinate" when something becomes instinctual. This is just personal experience; hold people in FA in the lowest regards that you want. Either way, I'm pretty much done with this discussion, because I don't really need to prove my point to anyone. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_   19:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * After 5 hours... anything is possible... MrPaladin talk 20:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, it takes about 16 before anything becomes possible. After 5, though, you become deranged into thinking that Anet will ever fix things. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  20:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I was going to go on a rant about common sense and bad players and a clear misunderstanding about how the game works, as well as making the mistake of thinking how magical super friends will work perfectly together no matter what, but I think Auron took care of most of it while my power was out. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 01:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

(RI) When I'm playing on the Kurzick side, I notice that... When I'm playing on the Luxon side, I notice that... IMO team composition is more often than not what decides if a team will win or lose, given how usually people don't really care about strategy. If both teams are bad, I think more often than not the Luxons win (even if only because it's easier to mindlessly press space and destroy stuff than to mindlessly press space and protect stuff). Erasculio 02:30, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When the match begins, everyone runs to get amber from the purple amber mine, and then people usually ignore amber for the rest of the game.
 * Players go do whatever it is their builds have been made for (rangers go try to kill the turtles, MMs go raise minions, paragons go spam chants that affect party members far away from any party member) regardless of what everyone else in the team is doing.
 * People capture amber mines slower than the Luxons thanks to the higher armor of the Luxons NPCs (rangers, with higher defense than casters) and thanks to how the Luxon players will spawn on the mines.
 * Often people will go capture command points when both turtles are alive and have just destroyed the green gate (and of course no amber mine is under Kurzick control).
 * When the match begins, everyone runs to the gates and then keep running in that direction until the game ends. Doesn't matter where the rest of the team is or where the turtles are, each individual player more often than not resurrects, runs straight to the Kurzick base, dies, and keeps repeating that pattern. The players only act as a group if the Kurzicks take too long in killing those characters and they all happen to be within the Kurzick base at the same time.
 * No one bothers to consider recapturing amber mines or killing amber runners. Mines are only captured if a Luxon happens to run past an occupied mine, and amber mines are only killed if a Luxon player or a NPC happens to kill them when clearing their way to the green gate.
 * If not a monk or a ritualist, no one tries to keep the turtles alive by removing sources of degen, regardless of how often that's what the Kurzicks use to kill the turtles.
 * Congratulations! You now understand the psychology of the average FA player.  This is why I played there; it's because I can get 3,500 Kurzick points while reading the headlines in a window off to the side.  It's that easy.  Nobody plays intelligently, most people there are worse than American district RA trash.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 02:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So Erasculio, each side is funny.@Jette-> Come on, offend everyone. International district lonely HA players, oblivious sandbags GvG players for top guilds, RoJers rogers JQ, mindless non-party ABers, the famer's disaster format HB. Dunno about TA. --ShadowFog 03:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

both side can have there ups and downs when it comes to who is in your team, some nights i can win with no problem other night i would like to ram my head into a wall, played for the first time last night since the aotl griever issue was a problem, and i got to say i hada pretty easy time, had my spirit healing rit, and sometimes there was another healer, luxon never made a dent on green, an if im by myself healing, it's wasn't too hard to keep green up, no nukers and not alot of pressure, tonight i played as a paragon (yes i said paragon) with expel hex/fall back/ and some command skills and holy spear/ blazing spear/wild throw and ran some amber and help defended green, didn't have a monk the first game, and other team had nukers and roj'ers, needless to say we won, just cause they liked to aim at me and not the gates, anyways point is that it shouldn't take much to win here from either side, and people who know what there doing is a god-sent, i always smile when i see a bunch of regulars on--67.70.68.195 04:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know when I'm going to get bored of this, but I imagine it's not going to be a for a long while. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 05:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody plays intelligently, most people there are worse than American district RA trash. Well, RA is far more challenging than AB/CMs... and in RA you will be paying more attention to what your team is doing anyways. Most people who play CMs are bad, same goes for AB. But some are rather good or very good, and it's quite fun to play on their side, or against them (and beat them, in the end). Mediggo 06:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a very bad CM. Random teams make it really bad to play. The biggest loser still is luxon unless kurzick decides to be a dumbass for a whole day. Unless there is a spirit spammer clicking 1-5 on his/her keyboard(if you can call that teamplay), kurzicks suck horrible at team play and luxons are too easy to leech off. If too many Luxons bring RoJ, they are likely to be vulnerable to ganking plus stopping RoJ is easy. Fixing RoJ will make this map harder for (unless they decide to play better by better I mean bring abusive builds after all this is buildwars) Luxons.--Wealedout 22:22, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They fixed one of the worst parts about RoJ, the lack of scatter. It's still armor ignoring damage + degen, which is much better than ele nukes versus the ranger NPCs, Juggernaut, and Gunther. <>Sparky, the Tainted 15:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It has slight advantages in spiking against those targets, but a proper nuker can maintain burning all the time with MoR and deal probably just as much damage by stacking their AoE's, and switch targets much faster (or spread damage). On other targets ele nukers tend to have an edge I think, particularly since they dont have a lot of downtime, also having more energy to fuel resolve and more backup spells if one gets interrupted. More important than RoJ itself, in my opinion, are often the scourge skills that a proper smiter also brings. And yes, RoJ hurts gunther if there are no healers. Same for any other profession though; most professions can maintain 10 degen or close to it and deal some damage while at it. In almost all cases, snares, KD chains, PowerBlock and spikes can often stop 99% of the damage potential. --Tenshi Samshel 11:01, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nukers have a big disadvantage compared to RoJ monks though: they aren't monks. Monks can take skills like RoJ along with healing, not to mention smiting prayers are OPd as hell in the first place.  Generally, a fire ele is only going to be able to take 1-3 support skills (at best) because of all the skills he has to take to do damage -- he might have a minor support role, but he can't double as a fully functional monk while his skills are recharging, while continuing to do damage with stupid smiting skills.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 18:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure Luxons are the biggest losers, with dumb turtle siege I'm more or less without any sort of Attunment for the entire fight. Granted, Kurzick rangers being able to harmlessly solo amber mines from their balconies is just as annoying. Touhou 03:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, Echo happens to be in the same line as Mantra of Resolve. So much for RoJ being easy to stop. Touhou 05:02, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, because you can take 2 elites on one bar, right? I assume you meant Arcane Echo. Besides, if it bothers you that much, bring stance removal, energy denial, Power Block, etc.. From personal experience, complaining does nothing. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  23:28, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Kurzicks don't need monks to win, there are amber mines for a reason. I mean, if you want to win in Fort Aspenwood, all you have to do is exploit. Nuking, turtle stalling, capping mines from the turrets, bond or heal gates and Gunther, wait for instant green repair, and killing Orange Turtle on the bridge from the fort. Only one of these exploits can reasonably be used by the Luxons, while all of them can be used by the Kurzicks. Balanced, right? <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Bonding doesn't require monks? You must be good to be able to do that. King Neoterikos 00:48, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoever said it didn't? <>Sparky, the Tainted 01:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhh, you did. "Kurzicks don't need monks to win... bond or heal gates and Gunther..."  Elysea  [[Image:User_Elysea_ElyseaSignatureImage.jpg|19px]] 02:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * How does that mean "Bonding doesn't require monks?" I fail to see your point. <>Sparky, the Tainted 03:31, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He's calling you a dumbass in non-NPA form, basically. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 03:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) You said they don't need monks, then go on to post a brilliant alternative which included bonding. Only monks can bond effectively. King Neoterikos 03:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right about one thing, I said you don't need monks. Obviously Ritualists and Necromancers can heal effectively too, but for this case; a bonder/monk will be considered anyone keeping the NPCs alive. The part where you went astray is where I supposedly posted an alternative to bonding that included bonding. I'm fairly certain my alternative was something about amber mines (hint: it's not to bond the mines). If you're referring to my list of exploits, yes bonding is one of them. My wording may have been confusing on that part, sorry. P.S.@Jette: Shh, nobody is supposed to know. <>Sparky, the Tainted 06:12, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Edited a Note
There was a note saying that Aegis can take off the pressure from healers for awhile on Gunther, and I thought...Spell Breaker can do the same thing (which by the way a professional monk did run this) so I just added it in with the Aegis note and removed the "for a short time" part. Than 00:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Spell Breaker would only remove spell pressure, while Aegis offers virtual invulnerability. Either way, it's my opinion that the note shouldn't exist, as it's painfully obvious and rather redundant. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  17:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Kurzick Mine Cleanser skills
Why are Kurzick Mine Cleanser using PvE versions of skills? Is this and oversight or intentional?--78.2.186.26 00:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All the NPCs here use PvE skills. Doesn't answer your question, but it's always been like that. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  23:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Who cares if they use the PvE version of spirits? They still stack them together and summon the same spirit at the same time, effectively making only one Mine Cleanser there instead of two. 205.206.135.46 04:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Still, the Mine Cleansers can get their spirits up extremely quickly with more health and armor. To be honest it doesn't make much of a difference, if you nuke the Mine Cleansers they die. <>Sparky, the Tainted 16:02, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. All the kurzick npc's are just trash. 205.206.143.111 05:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So are the Luxon ones, except the big ones. --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 05:41, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All NPCs are trash, except the Kurzick Mesmers. AI with fast casting can interrupt 1⁄4 skills. Reaction time is for noobs. <>Sparky, the Tainted 05:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Turtles aren't trash NPCs. :<  90% of the time when Kurzicks lose, regardless of which side I'm on, it's because the Kurzicks were being stupid and letting 2 turtles into their base at once.  They will overrun you if you do that.  The whole format is trash, tbh, it's supposed to be player vs. player, not player vs. a bunch of monsters with gimmicky and/or stupid skillbars, one of which is basically "rape target foe.  sexually assault all foes in earshot."  Also, any AI can interrupt 1/4 activation skills, because the AI is able to queue its cast before yours begins (or if it doesn't work that way, I don't know how it does other than "cheating."  I remember a Phantom (NPC) interrupted my Balanced Stance once though, but by now I can't remember if that actually happened or not).  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 06:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The turtles are bad because they are easily exploited. If A-Net could make turtles ignore players like they do spirits, they would be worth more. They deal good spike damage, but pitiful DPS. I would rather have a RoJ/heal NPC than a turtle. A man can dream... <>Sparky, the Tainted 07:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Even if it only does 250 damage to 4 players/targets, it has 67 DPS. That's not bad, for a creature that can hit from half the map away and removes enchantments on every hit.  And hitting 4 targets is not hard, given that the NPCs have terrible positioning, and so do most of the players.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 09:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong, they're great if they actually do that. Usually, they get stalled or killed before they do much. Of course when the Kurzick team doesn't do either, they will probably lose. <>Sparky, the Tainted 15:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

(Reset Indent)But then this just goes back to the whole argument of "Luxons bring healers to keep turtle alive while turtle butt rapes the kurzicks". "Kurzicks exploit turtles", "Luxons kill exploiters or just maybe rely on themselves and kill the gate guards on their own", "But Kurzicks bring healers at gates to stall"...Either way, it's just a round argument. In the end, no one wins.205.206.139.172 01:13, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, turtle exploiters use Defy Pain and do not kill the turtle (they stall). Luxons don't need monks there, and the DP warrior will take some time to kill (if they can be killed at all). This stalls not only the turtle, but part of the Luxon team. The few Luxons that move on without the turtles get their attempts thwarted by the monks healing the gates. (Unless of course, Luxons have RoJ nukers and/or touch rangers.) <>Sparky, the Tainted 01:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

when are bugs going to get fixed?
like turtles getting stuck, and turtles not rezzing while a single war is alive? if that's not a bug it's a stupid feature. also i noticed that deaths charge sometimes will and sometimes won't tele me up the wall where kurzicks are... sounds like a bug to me if the results are inconsistent. I mean seriously just look at the amount of bugs on the page and all of them on lux side. /endrant Materia user 21:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Shadowsteps won't teleport you through walls. The door to their area must be open before you are able to shadowstep inside. (This can be bypassed with the necromancer teleports.) Most other bugs you mentioned have been fixed. Like if the warriors get stuck, they die (or so I hear, the warriors haven't been a problem lately). Turtles no longer get stuck under gates. However, turtles can be stalled by players, resuming only when the player moves out of range. <>Sparky, the Tainted 04:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not true at all. The turtles still get stuck @ both Orange Gates on a regular basis. Turtle Siege is bugged also, failing to remove enchants. Try it once. Go monk the gates and laugh as nobody can get through without total spiking individual targets. It's obvious to me that bonders now work again in FA. I have been seeing them all week long. As for stalling the Turtles in center map? I haven't seen that tactic in at least two weeks, as any good Necro or Mesmer brings stuff that walks all over chants/shouts. GG when you get whomped on with Ulcerous Lungs amongst other skills. Defy Pain nubs never bring anything to counter the degen that is always covered with other stuff. We won't even get into how Shadow Steps quite often fail when going from on the ground inside Purple or Orange Gates to the level above them. -the  jynxed-  22:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You act like Defy Pain warriors use a lot of shouts and chants, lol. They are usually W/D with dervish heals. They can remove hexes with Pious Restoration (especially after the recent skill update). Once again, I have to say that the turtles do not get stuck on gates anymore, that glitch was fixed a long time ago. Bonders have always worked, Siege Turtle Attack (Fort Aspenwood) only removes one enchantment every 15 seconds (and yes, it still removes them) which is a minor inconvenience at best. P.S. Shadowsteps never fail. <>Sparky, the Tainted 18:25, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Shadowsteps don't work if the gate isn't down. "Get your facts straight", as you say. – Emmett  20:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a reason why shadow step doesn't work while the gates are up.. - Reanimated X 20:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They do work. However, when the gates are closed (like I said two posts ago) they only shadowstep you to the wall. "Get your facts straight," as I quoted from you quoting from me. P.S. I forgot to mention, some shadowsteps can fail. <>Sparky, the Tainted 23:11, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure most people wouldn't count that as "working". Sure, your skill completes, by that's like saying a car with no wheels works- sure, it starts, but it doesn't do what you want. – Emmett  23:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's more like trying to drive your car through a wall. The car works just fine (until it hits the wall, of course), but it can't go any farther than the wall. The solution: wait until the gate opens. Cars can't teleport. <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If the outer gate gets repaired while the turtle is still in the middle of walking through the gate, it gets stuck, as in, can't even turn around to fire Turtle Siege. I've seen it happen many, many, many times. The warriors however, don't get stuck, they can "walk" one way or another, usually choosing to walk back out to target the two gate Earth Eles. As for the DP Warriors, most of the ones I encountered were of the W/P variety. The W/D ones just went QQ cuz they had signets, etc disabled by the Lux Mesmers. -the jynxed-  00:38, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Rename Luxon NPCs to "completely worthless NPC [number]"
Including the turtle... honestly, can they get any worse? Give us a balanced team or at least something long ranged to fight after the first gate! The fact that most shouts/chants/echos/whatever aren't don't affect them either adds insult to injury.
 * This talk page is to comment on the contents of the article, if you want to rant about FA, find a fansite forum somewhere. Thanks! -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  06:50, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't mind her, she's trying to follow the "site policy." Really, we welcome rants, I'd say about 75% of the wiki consists of them -- 99% if you amend that "rants" to include "incoherent bitching."  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 07:12, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * We actually don't welcome rants, unless it's in your own userspace. There you can rant and rave to your hearts content. -- Wyn [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon2.png|19px ]] talk  07:44, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't welcome rants, but likewise we don't prohibit them. It comes with having articles about stuff in Guild Wars - people will discuss the 'stuff' as well as the article. -- [[Image:User Brains12 circle sig.png|18px|]] Brains12 \ talk 22:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't believe it was a rant, since the OP presented a problem, and suggested a solution. If that's not an attempt at a discussion, at the most the OP should be directed to the suggestion page. No rant, no foul. McCrea 15:35, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Luxon NPCs are just as useful/worthless as Kurzick NPCs. And if you're saying that shouts and chants don't affect them, you're just not looking hard enough. Do your homework and learn to play. Mediggo 16:44, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

New map?
Should have a map that shows the location of the mines, gates, etc. Like the one thats for the mission map in-game. 24.233.254.51 14:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, actually. But the other maps have none, so unless someone decides we should update all of them, we should leave them alone for consistency.  --Jette  [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 22:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll see about uploading an FA map at least, and maybe others if I get around to it. Consistency is pointless. Consistency is very important in such a well-established wiki as this. (See what I did there?) -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  01:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)





Butcher them however you like, then put either (both?) on the main page when done. The second is obviously labeled and more closely cropped than the first. -- <font color="Black">Gah<font color="Black">_  02:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Make it PNG please... JPEGs are the horrible, let alone the in game ones that GW makes. &mdash; The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.161.206.131 (talk) at 00:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC).

Rare Bug?
A few months back this happend

If u cant see what wrong, there are 7 people instead of the regular 8.--Ultima Flames 00:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's unconnected to FA. -~=Sparky  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (talk)  03:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you didn't just crop the pic? Either that or one person got disconnected/Alt+F4'd while trying to load. 209.89.252.164 18:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In addition to this there are 2 player number 6 --Max ime 10:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's because the first six were added, number five left, and two more loaded. The game gave the last two numbers appropriate to how many people were in the party, which resulted another number six and a number seven. This "bug" can happen anywhere, and the numbering issue can happen in any form of PvP - but, generally, people only leave in random match-ups like FA and RA. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  14:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Now I got the rare bug
I think they also had less people. One of them quit, we won.

I really wish that I could embed images from ImageShack in Wikis though. Previously Unsigned 02:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not hard to figure out that people were exiting the queue just as the timer reached 0. Pika Fan 02:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

three monks and the siege turtle is still dying. lol. I can't remember ever running into this bug but i never count how many i see. FA seriously needs to get fixed if this bug is true, the amount of bugs in FA is starting to get ridiculous. Roflmaomgz 20:02, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not really a bug, it's just that people who leave before you load don't show up in the party menu, happens everywhere in GW. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  18:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Gunther Lure
I think Gunther is attracted to low-hp targets. I usually play a one-hit-wonder nuker for the Luxon side. i have seen numerous occasions where Gunther will follow you outside the Green gate. If you manage to get yourself into the green gate, get at low hp (>25%), and have Gunther target you (attack you), and once you try to run out the Green gate, Gunther will follow you out (and keeping him away from Gatekeeper heals). In some cases, he followed me out all the way to center-Kurzick-portal. Confirm? I guess I can get a screenshot later 74.87.20.78 07:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seen him move a bit but thats just general enemy ai, not just his. Enemies will general chase low % hp targets further than they would a normal target.  I've never seen him stay outside the green gate afterwards though. Tidas 12:01, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Both Gunther and his monk buddies can be lured extremely far from their starting positions, even as far as to the inner purple or orange gates (and, in fact, if you get them that far, they usually get stuck outside because they're too damn stupid to go through the gate instead of the wall). They will chase low-HP targets to either try to kill them or heal them, without bothering to worry about silly stuff like the mission depending entirely upon them.  –Jette [[Image:User_Jette_awesome.png|19px]] 22:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh yeah I've seen this, Saw gunth and both the gatekeepers run all the way outside the gate and out another one... somehow we (kurzick at the time) still won. it was early in the match at the time so I thought we were done for. Roflmaomgz 20:30, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Four years later, FA's still biased
This mission really needs a major cleanup. The Kurzicks always have to bleedin' cart amber to repair the gates, whereas all the Luxons have to do to win is attack and attack and attack. They don't have to cart amber to restore their turtle, only wait and have at least one player travel to the command points and with a simple click, off to the fort they go. Turtle's and warrior escorts available absolutely free! Just wait less than a minute, and they'll appear at no charge! How brilliant is that... 121.7.31.181 22:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC) (emphasis added) "Try again plz." (sarcasm added)
 * Biased? Biased for those that know what they're doing maybe. The same could be said for any area though. Since you want to break down the Luxon side down to so much simplicity, I'll break down the Kurzick side to similar simplicity: Keep gate NPCs alive and you'll have no problem! Absolutely free! At no charge! C2Talon 23:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * All the Kurzicks have to do is breathe, you mean. Unless they're fighting against Luxons who know how to play - then the Kurzicks might actually have to do something! -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  04:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And it's WAY longer than a minute too. There always is one last siege right before the timer goes off, like some joke. They should have adjusted the spawn rate when they took all that time off. Previously Unsigned 16:21, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's 30 seconds. But the timer only starts once every single Luxon Warrior in the squad is dead. And yes, the squad should respawn on turtle death, not entire squad death. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  02:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * While I know the whole purpose of FA is to put Kurzick players at a severe disadvantage, one thing I'd like to include in this discussion is the refined/raw amber mines. Now although they're mines, the Luxons are somehow able to use them as resurrection shrines as well (not true to the name now is it?). But whenever they're under Kurzick control, the so-called resurrections do not occur for them. 121.7.236.127 18:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * All the better, I wouldn't want to res out there with the green gate down. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 18:30, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1- Resurrecting outside of your fortress makes it much more difficult defend (hence, why you don't). 2- Please, tell me how Kurzicks are "at a severe disadvantage" when you can do the two most useful things you can do without a single skill on your skill bar. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  18:43, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As best I'm aware, bonding a gate (or whatever term you want to use; basically, keeping gate NPCs alive) and mending the gates are the two most useful things from a Kurzick perspective. The former requires being a monk with a mostly heal-oriented build. The latter requires enough offense to take mines over (assuming the Luxons are competent enough to capture it so Kurzicks have to take more time get amber), and enough speed and defense to get the amber to the gatekeepers without being killed by the approaching Siege Turtles and Luxon Warriors, which are trying to kill the gate but are typically more than happy to divert their attention to you. I don't think you can feasibly wand the Luxon Rangers to death, and I don't think you can redbar the gate NPCs by wanding either.
 * But if you have a different idea of what the two most useful things are, I'd love to hear. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 22:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * tl;dr. Turtles seige attack removes all enchants. Try again plz. --71.193.48.146 22:56, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Stalling Turtles (and sometimes Luxon players) and running amber do not require anything, except maybe waiting for someone else to take over the mines for you. P.S. Siege Turtle Attack only removes one enchantment, not all. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  23:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * @IP: "bonding a gate (or whatever term you want to use; basically, keeping gate NPCs alive)"
 * @Sparky: Successfully keeping gate NPCs alive will prevent Luxons from getting anywhere whatsoever, much more so than stalling the turtles, though admittedly it accomplishes that goal in part. And if you really want to wait for someone to take over a mine for you, well, you're basically wasting time. I see your point, but I can only assume you're really really really exaggerating. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 00:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really, you just have to be an opportunist. Some people (especially healers) don't or can't advance without turtles, essentially stalling them as well. Of course you're not going to just wait for someone to take over the mines, you will have something else you can do, you're not literally going in without a skill bar (though, if you did, stalling is your best option). Compare that to what Luxons can do without a skill bar. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  03:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering how much the turtles have been buffed in the first place, they can do quite a bit. Turtles alone can take out an unprotected gate in two shots. It's fair enough to say, though, that if two teams went in without skills, Kurzicks could stall the Turtles in shifts and win pretty easily. But realistically speaking, Luxons play offense, Kurzicks play defense, and people like to play a more offensive role, which is why Kurzicks usually seem at a "disadvantage", I suppose. I usually see killing turtles as a better idea than stalling them, but maybe that's just me, and I suppose it is more useful in a way to just stall, if you don't want to have a respawn later. Healers can continue through without turtles if some players come along, though. Lots of variables in this particular competitive mission. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 04:08, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would say the opposite is true. They're usually not at a disadvantage which is why way more play Kurzick. Andthe Luxon side is anti melee, anti physical, and mostly about killing NPCs. Previously Unsigned 15:06, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I put "disadvantage" in quotes for a reason. This is what it appears to be for players who just want to kill things like in normal PvP, only because they don't understand that Kurzicks need to be defensive and stay in the base when the green gate is breached. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 17:20, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the way some can see it is, the best defense is a good offense. In extension, you can defend a fort by killing everyone attacking it or by stalling the attackers until they give up (or die from Gods' Vengeance, as the case may be) - you can't capture a fort by stalling the defenders (you apparently can't truly siege forts in GW, despite having siege weapons). I see what you're saying, it's a perceived disadvantage - also because people can see the "awesomeness" factor of the turtles, but can't visually see how strong the gates and amber really are. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  23:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much my point my point, people are basically bad at adapting to different roles and objectives and like to pewpew instead.

By the way, do you play Luxon? Think I actually saw you in FA the other day. --Kyoshi (Talk) 23:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, some people just play to fight rather than to "play the game," so to speak. I play from both sides in phases, but I started in (and am currently playing from) the Kurzick side. How about yourself (even if this is going off-topic a little :P)? -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  00:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I usually play Kurzick, but I played Luxon to get my assassin through the Lux side for Canthan Protector. =P Admittedly, the assaulting side is kinda fun to play, regardless of multiple items of balance being slightly borked, and I'm a bit disappointed that the Kurzicks don't have a close equivalent. --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 00:58, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I really enjoy the Luxon side because it is slightly more challenging and more fun to charge in without having to worry about Siege Turtle Attack (which is probably why my Luxon title is higher than my Kurzick one atm). You'd think that with all the attacks, Luxons would capture it and then fend off attacks at some point... I guess they just leave after they kill Gunther? -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  01:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Got him!" "Should we burn and scatter his body so they can't resurrect him and pull this shit again?" "Nah." --Kyoshi (Talk) [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] 01:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Yeah, nobody would possibly want a fort on our border, let's go back to our giant fish thingy." -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  01:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Remember when you could copy the siege's attack? I wish I was around for that! Previously Unsigned 04:28, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha, yeah. But it was slightly OP'd so it got nerfed. ): -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  04:46, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Purple Bug
I know that the Purple Siege Turtle gets stuck (Feb. 25th update introduced this), but I have not really investigated it. Also, I'm lazy. Would someone please "research" this phenomenon (what causes/triggers it, if players can get it moving again) and add it to the page (or post your findings here and someone like me will add it for you). From what I have heard, the purple squad sometimes won't advance until aggroed by Kurzicks. -~=Ϛρѧякγ   (τѧιк)  00:36, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * today I noticed that our turtle was stuck again... it didn't move until the center gate was broken, then all of a sudden it perked up and walked forward. I dunno if it was just a coincidence (and perhaps something else triggered it) or what, just thought i'd note it. I know it's not aggro though, as I have aggroed stuck turtles myself as a kurzick and they still didn't move. The warriors do move however which also eliminates the possibility that they are bodyblocked by their own warriors. 70.135.119.15 00:51, 17 April 2010 (UTC) Edit: wasn't signed in, also should be mentioned that this was on the purple gate that it was stuck on. (i've seen them stuck elsewhere though, including the middle of the field.) both turtles can get stuck as well it is not just the purple. Roflmaomgz 00:53, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Bug finally fixed
"Promised the purple squad's Siege Turtle a carrot so it would stay on the path."

Sometimes the simpliest sollution is the best.
 * Turtle is bugged again. It now won't move into the fortress. Lovely, first Luxons can't get points due to the first bug, now -with another faction weekend- we still can't play normally. --Se7en 21:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Luxons just need more skilled players (or efficient builds) to win, it's not like they can't win at all. Of course, Kurzicks can win without skilled players because they have the advantage. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG  (τѧιк)  00:01, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems the turtle can still get body blocked by its warriors unsigned
 * maybe the grass is stopping them from moving forward. on a serious note we should add another bug to the insanely long list of bugs to lux side on page. I dont think it's the warriors, they won't even move is someone aggros them... Roflmaomgz 05:52, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Turtles are definitely sticking, especially on the purple side. The phenomenon normally happens at the first gate on the purple side. If you can lure a Kurzick player within shout range it will start up. other than that the whole turtle/warrior team will stay there the whole round. 6-2010
 * The question still begs me what the cause is as my only guess is the turtle stalling that would happen in almost every game through most or all the battle as I dont recall turtles getting stuck before and this has been left for too long yet I understand they are working on GW 2 but they could have looked into it more. Stormcaller 08:43, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's called punctuation. Use it. It makes your sentence understandable. I also found a new bug. today the last warrior of the orange squad stayed foot at the green gate. it didn't even move to attack kurzicks within range. That way the turtle didn't respawn either. Rhonin Soren 17:23, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not a new bug, Luxon Warriors get stuck all the time. You know that you don't have to whine about punctuation, right? It's just annoying when you don't even use proper punctuation yourself. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 15:57, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't find it between the long list of bugs at first but now i do. anyway I wasn't sure so that's why I said it here on the talk page first. And yeah i don't have to whine about punctuation, and i didn't. But there's a difference between using punctuation perfect and making sentences understandable. <font color="Goldenrod">Rhonin User Rhonin Soren sig.png<font color="Goldenrod">Soren 16:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, at least you've got enough to make it understandable. Some punctuation is much better than none (unless it's random punctuation and in the middle of words and things, but I don't know anyone that does that). Also, there are way too many bugs in this mission, lol. It's actually ridiculous that none of the problems have ever gotten permanently fixed. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 00:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Turtle bond
Is it still possible? I tested it and my team tends to say thanks when a turtle shoots down Gunther, but I hear nothing about it on PVX/wiki any more.. why? 77.160.189.74 19:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Because some things are far more effective. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png  (τѧιк)  23:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I almost forgot this. -~=Ϛρѧякγ  User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png  (τѧιк)  23:02, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol touch ranger. --92.4.85.39 17:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Kurzick strategy section
Is it just me or does it seem like it was amateurishly made based on biased assumptions about what works best where? The luxon section is nothing like it. I would delete it but I don't have time to write up a better one I'd appreciate if someone can.The Emmisary 17:18, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's badly biased, self-contradictory, and misleading. It also adds nothing that wasn't already there while making the good information harder to find. I would just revert all of it. --Irgendwer 17:39, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * If I find the time, I'll re-write the thing. I agree, it looks like it was slapped together by a bunch of random people (which it probably was), and is kinda put to shame by the Luxon part. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  00:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the IP seems dead-set on keeping the poor design he/she made. For what it's worth, I found yours quite succinct, Emmisary. G R E E N E R  22:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I went through it, trying to make it better (got ec'd ofcourse). But still isn't worth it. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk </b> 22:16, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I gave it a go, but we should probably just deal with this IP if he's going to insist on 1RRing repeatedly. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 22:18, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm well I thought my version was going to be kept on but it appears everyone wants to edit the section putting in their 2 cents :/ The Emmisary 22:19, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I say the 4 of you (including the IP) should just keep rolling through your versions. RC needs some entertainment from time to time. G R E E N E R  22:21, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * @Kyoshi:Your version make Skill recommendations section look redundant. - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk </b> 22:25, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I suppose. I didn't notice it once I saw the horrible grammar the IP used. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 22:27, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Kyoshi, you seem like you have valuable input. It would be awesome if you could add any extra information to the version I have up. The Emmisary 22:28, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a shot later. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 22:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm actually starting to think we should merge the Strategy and Skill Recommendation sections under the Strategy header. Thoughts? --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 01:06, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless you can manage you can manage to shorten the skill section then add it to the strategy section im against it. We changed this page around to get rid of a bloated section not to make a new one. The Emmisary 01:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Some of the items under strategy are just skill recommendations anyhow, mainly the "builds" part. Alternatively, we could just get rid of the "builds" section of strategy and move the information to skill selection. I think strategy should have its own section, outside of the "mission info" section, with skill selection as a subheader. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 01:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, "Strategy" should be just strategy, and not really have anything to do with the skills/equipment that a player brings. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  16:31, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, skill and equipment selection is also a part of strategy. I'm just suggesting that skill selection be a subheader of strategy in a section outside mission info, since it's not really info on the mission but rather advice on how to play it. --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 19:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess preparing could be under strategy. Depends on what scope of strategy we're talking about, I guess. As long as in-game strategy is separate from preparation strategy (like you said), I'm fine with it. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  23:01, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Fyi
Just in case people complain about it later, I'm going to already say that I will most likely redo the entire skill recommendation section based of profession. any thoughts? The Emmisary 16:28, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * If you make it long, please put a hide tag on each profession header. ^-^ A list of useful skills with a short description of why they are useful can be... useful! <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  16:33, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You could also try doing it in a sandbox in your userspace, just to get it right before implementing. But yeah, hide tags would be good. (Not that I know how they work.) --Kyoshi [[File:User Kyoshi sig.png]] (Talk) 19:40, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Release?
Friend of mine told me it wasn't released when faction came out...true or not? If true when was it released?
 * It's been out since the Factions preview weekend. <font color="#0AA">-~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  21:02, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Dervish
Should be kept objective. Aspenwood IS NOT a melee-friendly arena on both sides. Do explain to me what "thorough testing" you did. As far as I am concerned your information is biased due to the fact you are such avidly supporting a rarely-played class in a cooperative arena. Hitting multiple foes doesn't override that you have to run up to the turtle to attack it or that it is rather difficult to even approach a luxon enemy without catching aggro of multiple foes. Amber running isn't the only aspect of Fort Aspenwood.--The Emmisary 19:02, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Dervish rely on enchantments, each turtle strips an enchantment every 15-or-so seconds. Luxon Warrior NPCs will shred any unprotected player approaching the turtle. Scythes are bad at killing turtles unless those scythes are wielded by assassins. Scythes are good at capturing mines, but anyone with a good semi-offensive build can capture the mines from the Kurzick side. Warriors/rangers/assassins are better than dervishes at using scythes (dervishes may be better at using scythes in other places, but that is irrelevant). This leaves dervishes either healing or PBAoE nuking, which are both niche builds that are not-so-viable on the Kurzick side. They are an undesirable class on the Kurzick side and a take-or-leave class on the Luxon side. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 23:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I run amber and cap mines on my Dervagon. Wind prayers and spear chucking FTW. It CAN be done. AnubisTheMystic 01:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Anything can be done. In fact, everything probably has been done (by me). That doesn't necessarily mean that it is the most efficient way or a good suggestion for a new player. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 02:36, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Buggers?
what about ppl standing up where dont get hit by turtles but where the turtle focus on killing him... that sounds a bit likely abuse of bot ia and yes, i see that happening... i think that's not legal way of play... 93.156.33.90 22:53, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Some will tell you "that's life", but i know a pretty good bunch of other people that will tell you "it's something else". Yseron - 109.213.159.194
 * Using the terrain to avoid fire has always been a valid strategy. Relying on predictable NPC behavior has also always been a valid strategy. As long as there are NPCs in PvP, people are going to use the same tricks that work in PvE to kill them. There is nothing illegal about it. --Irgendwer 00:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting, i'm going to keep track of what other details we get on those locations...for futur references. Yseron - 109.213.159.194 00:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's exploitation, but a valid strategy nonetheless. A strategy that is hardly useful against good pushers. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 23:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Sparky. Usually those stallers are still in casting range of casters anyway. Besides, two people stalling the turtles means two less defenders, 25% of your force, which is quite a heavy price. --77.61.169.201 16:21, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * A Soul Twisting rit up there with communing/resto spirits (shelter / union etc) can make or break the orange side assault sometimes, especially if there's an Air of Enchantment monk behind the gate, a Burning Arrow ranger on the battlements to snipe guards at the orange mine and all the Luxons have brought is physicals (oops!). Regardless of all that, if the Luxons are mixed aoe nukers with the right utility then orange gate will crumple like a wet paper bag in a hurricane. It's all good in the end. Cirian 17:21, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Stallers
When will you fix this forsaken map??? Stallers are at the top of the kurz base and the turtles wont advance until the staller is killed. Problem is the turtle is too stupid to realize it cant hit the staller and just sits there since the base obstructs the turtles projectiles. Staller is out of range of the turtle and a player. Lux cant touch him until the second gate is down but cant get past the first gate since it is bonded. The turtles are the ones with enchantment removal and bonders are back on the gates and lux cant win without the turtles. Peeps are rage quitting again and this exploit was posted 2-3 years back but nothing was done about it (check the fort aspenwood archives). Another bug is that the kurz can ignore the rules of the map and still win (e.g., capping mines). I wont remention all the bugs since you can read them in the archives. Players are back due to the title-mania for gw2 and that resurges this map especially on zaishen day. The concept of this map is nice but was poorly implemented. One more thing about a comment above regarding two less defenders: one staller is stalling a turtle and several warriors....do the math. 75.191.162.88 22:49, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Take a hint? The map may be ridiculous, but if the meta is enchant spam, then you should bring enchantment removal. If you really care about winning, then also take nukes (Ray of Judgment is preferred). <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 01:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Take a hint? The map may be ridiculous, but if the meta is enchant spam, then you should bring enchantment removal. If you really care about winning, then also take nukes (Ray of Judgment is preferred). <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 01:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

--- ops the players are chosen randomly. Enchantment removal does not work against rit healers. and against 3 monks bonding a gate... also the time of recharge is not good ... and sometimes bringing  them means less dmg. the nukers have good dmg but lacks of good defense... so if the another side have sins o mesmser... they are just farmed.... --67.197.69.250 21:00, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to know much about the format. Anything trying to keep NPCs alive without Protection Prayers is a joke. Enchantments don't stack. Bringing enchantment removal is more important than another garbage filler skill. Only bad nukers get killed repeatedly and only when their team is bad and the other team is good (i.e., they deserve to lose anyway). <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 21:52, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Run . -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  00:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Leeching and early quit stalling Game.
Can you have a mechanism that reduces the possibility for intentionally doing leeching and quitting during PVP game? Some players stay in port all day long doing leeching, This makes this PVP game lost its meaningful joy.


 * This Game is dead, unless those developers find any solutions to get rid of leechers and early leavers. Average 2-3 ppl per round on luxon side either leech or leave early. Some ppl just continuously doing leeching round by round.


 * The map is broken anyway. Please sign your comments by typing ~ at the end. Thanks! <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 07:15, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I think Hex time for a leecher can be pro-rated, like in 24 hour period, First time 15 Min, 2nd time 1 Hour, 3rd time 3 hour, 4th time, 6 hour. Early leavers can get the similar treatment. 17:59, 24 February 2011 (UTC) "Me In Jungle"

A useful div / prot build
I was really lost trying to find a good healing build that prevents damage at the same time suitable for pvp for a while, but did finally manage create a build based on Divine Favor and Protection Prayers that did work out well atleast at FA. I wanted to know how I could make an optional use of skills taken from the primary attribute of the monk class. With the valeu of 14 ( 12 + 2 ) in Divine Favor I did place an enchantment skill called Divine Boon at the base of the skill bar to increase even more healing ( heal for +57 ) to all Divine Favor and Protection Prayers spells that's being used when every single attribute rank in Divine Favor adds +3.2 in healing for every spell you cast on your self or someone else. Divine Boon does have much in common with the elite enchantment spell Unyielding Aura, but differs from how it yields it's healing. Besides that Unyielding Aura also is being changed when it's been used in PvP.

The only spell that do quite alot of healing in it self is Blessed Light ( heal for +131 ) - an elite Divine Favor spell with the secondary quality to remove one hex and one condition at the same time. I am a little bit of a one that hates hexes and conditions, so I had to use two more skills that remove such things, and seams to be needed. I thought Watchful Healing - a spell that creates a +4 health regeneration for 10 sec. - was a slightly better choice than making use of the more powerful Healing Breeze - a spell that requires that I have to spend important attribute points on Healing Prayers. Watchful Healing does in comparison only cost 5 less energy to cast.

I have the attribute of 16 ( 12 + 1 + 3 ) in Protection Prayers and rise the effectiveness of Reversal Fortune to a respectful level in combination with the valeu I have in Divine Favor and the healing support from Divine Boon. All but two skills - Blessed Light and Protective Spirit - does only cost 5 energy to cast. The recharge times for the skills are not too bad, but it can be a problem to save energy in all situations. I use two energy runes on my armor adding all in all +5 energy to the pool. To maintain Divine Boon you suffer from -1 in energy degeneration. Guardian¨may be replaced by any skill that can resolve the lack of energy. Someone may have any suggestions? --Kram 19:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Luxon? Divine Boon and BLight are pretty outdated, actually. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 20:08, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I've been playing on Kurzick side! --Kram 21:41, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh... In that case, just do Air of Enchantment and spam good enchantments on NPCs from behind gates. Actually, to be honest, it doesn't matter what build you run. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 23:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I still have to capture Air of Enchantment, and I have tried to imagine the benefits you get within it's range of duration in relation to the relative fast recharge time. Yes, it could be a useful one when you need to cast spells like Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond on three targets in a row, and still got maby 20 energy to spend. --Kram 09:03, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, Air of Enchantment's weakness is target switching, which isn't a problem in Kurzick FA, since you just need to keep one NPC alive at a time. Basically, it lets you spam itself, Patient Spirit, Guardian, Protective Spirit, Spotless Mind/Body, Reversal of Fortune, and other enchantments for the turtle to burn (so that AoE and PS are covered). <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 21:28, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Do NPCs use the PvP version of their skills?
Since Kurzick Mesmer supposedly uses Psychic Instability instead of Psychic Instability (PvP), I'm wondering if any other NPCs in this mission incorrectly use a skill's PvE version instead of its PvP version. Once an NPC has been verified using the PvE or PvP version, feel free to strike it out on this list and note it on the NPC article. For example, if the Kurzick Warrior correctly uses "Watch Yourself!" (PvP), the Kurzick Warrior page could note this in its Skills section: --Silver Edge 07:25, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Do Kurzick Warriors use "Watch Yourself!" (PvP)?
 * Do Luxon Warriors use Renewing Smash (PvP)?
 * Do Kurzick Rangers use Sundering Attack (PvP)?
 * Do Kurzick Elementalists use the removed Ward Against Melee (PvP)? Since a bug caused another PvP NPC (Vincent Evan) to use a removed PvP version of a skill (Blinding Surge (PvP)).
 * Do Kurzick Assassins use Death Blossom (PvP) and Fox Fangs (PvP)?
 * ( in Fort Aspenwood)
 * It ain't supposedly lol. It IS the PvE version. I can tell from the nearby radius instead of adjacent. As soon as the Mesmer update happened last year that changed PI, I noticed it right away. I can try to look for the other versions, but I am not that familiar with them (I don't even know how warrior skills or bars, I tried making a hero bar and am confused as hell) . However CM have had version problems before: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Unwisesage/Rigged Previously Unsigned 10:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * more: [[File:User Previously Unsigned FA NPC skills.jpg]] Previously Unsigned 18:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's been a bug for ages, I've already reported it the day of the mesmer update -- S ilven User Silven sig.jpg 01:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Which method did you use to report it and did you get a reply? --Silver Edge 02:06, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought you just posted bugs and feedback here, in the feedback and bugs sections? Previously Unsigned 04:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * According to their Terms of Use, suggestions can only be accepted in the feedback space of this wiki, but I'm assuming one could use the NCsoft webpage linked in http://www.guildwars.com/support/ as "Web support" to submit bug reports. --Silver Edge 07:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I only said "supposedly" since I haven't gone into Fort Aspenwood to verify that it is the PvE version of Psychic Instability myself and I didn't pay attention to it when I was knocked down by it the last time I was in FA. --Silver Edge 01:58, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Rewards have been recalculated. Anybody know new method?
Anybody want to take a stab at them? I saw 2500 for LOSING, 3500 for winning. I bet all of the CM ones have been redone. Previously Unsigned 01:21, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Think the new ones are 500 per unique gate broke + 1000 if win, have yet to try Kurzick but assuming the same reward, it would be 25 per every 1% completion of God's Vengeance + 1000 if win. Previously Unsigned 01:43, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so nobody seems to know. But I got 4000 faction on Kurz, so it could be anything now.


 * You get 4,030 faction for 101% (to get 101%, you turn in amber to gunther at 99% to boost it up 2 pts, thus 101%). I believe the forumla is 30 faction per 1% of god's vengeance an additional 1,000 for winning. 30 x 100% = 3000 + 1000 additional for winning = 4000 --Magi 03:58, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Luxons get 3500 for winning with every gate broken and only 2500 for losing with every gate broken. Breaking a gate seems to give 500 (at least green does) so Luxons simply get 500 for each gate and 1000 for winning. Why do Kurzicks get more faction for winning? 122.111.164.160 06:32, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably they miscalculated. To make it even it would have to be 600 faction per gate destroyed + 1000 for winning (600 x 5 = 3000 + 1000 = 4000). Magi 18:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've played both sides today. Kurz win = 4k.  Lux win = 3.5k.  This is not right. 70.110.27.82 22:02, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Forgot to sign, sorryThe Duke of Silence 22:03, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

What an immensely retarded article
The profession advice is so heavily biased, it's mind blowing. Melee is not "restricted", it plays a different role, which would be killing enemy monks and slaughtering amber runners. I'm not gonna change it, 'cause I don't care a whole lot. I just want to let everyone who agrees with that part of the article know that they're retarded.--Gerroh 04:03, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And everyone in FA doesn't want you to join them with your melee toon because it prevents a much more useful class from filling that spot. Melee is half reasonable on the Kurzick side but they are painfully bad on the Luxon side, every gate is built to counter melee heavily and on defensive maps, having to run up close and deal with strafing while monks heal from behind gates you can't get through... well you quickly realise melee toons are just inferior on this map. 122.111.164.160 06:34, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * How many invoke eles does it take to open a gate? Hint: this many. How long does it take an invoke ele to kill a player (you know, like the monks that are keeping Gunther alive!)?  It only takes one warrior!  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  14:52, 9 Jun 2011 (UTC)
 * Just because you can't play warrur, IP, doesn't mean it's useless.--Gerroh 13:03, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm sick of people not listening in Kurzick.
I lost almost every match 30-60% into the match because a) They do not target turtles and healers on Luxon side, b) We cap mines but no one brings amber afterwards. c) We run around like chickens with no heads or d) everyone feeds Gunther amber after repairing the front two gates the first time rather than waiting for more broken gates like a pro player of FA should.

Play with Yumiko or Hikari (my cute eles) some time in the future and you'll see what I mean. I can play Luxon side as well, as I used to be Luxon all the time because of how bad Kurz were. It doesn't matter as much now with imperial as both sides essentially suck. I think only JQ is solid on Luxon now.Yumiko ^,~ 17:17, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Nobody listens on either side and the majority don't know a speck of tactics or know terrible tactics, hence FA's reputation of being full of bads. <font color="#0AA">–~=<font color="#0AA">Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png <font color="#0AA">(τѧιк)  &larr;&hearts;– 23:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

PO'd @ FA
I was going to complain and list all the things wrong with FA in my opinion until I realized that Anet never listens to anyone and Gaile was a human firewall with a salary that no outside communication ever passed through otherwise all these bugs would have been fixed long ago. I used to enjoy this until I tried to stop stacking Kurz and went back to Luxon 100% of the time. Oh My God, this is the most irritating PvP in Guild Wars. But NOOOOO let's destroy TA because communication is the problem and mindlessness is the answer. facepalm. I don't even know why they have NPC wars on Luxon because they're 100% useless and dervs can tank half of luxon + the bugged turtle tank without a monk all by themselves. All kurz has to do to win is run dervs and pull luxon into duels outside the walls. 69.207.4.244 23:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * so do MQSC. -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  13:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Turtle bug
Hi - does it happen only to me in games I am in or is it common thing last days, that right turtle from luxon side get 90% stucked in the front of the fortress and refuse to enter in? --Calixos 12:52, 10 July 2011 (UTC)