ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Assassin/Shattering Assault

Shard's Discussion
I think it's fine, but lead attacks need to be harder to land. None of them should ignore blocking. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 09:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't really have an opinion about this skill being unblockable or lead attacks being unblockable, but I would like to note that this skill's damage is purely armor respecting, which actually is a problem. If you use Sundering Daggers and happen to get a sundercrit on this skill, you deal some insane amount of damage, like 250 or something. Why not just have it do armor ignoring damage like other attacks? You shouldn't be able to get lucky and instant kill someone like that. I mean, it can't even be protted or blocked or anything. --TimeToGetIntense 14:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

make Golden Fox Strike non-unblockable then, this skill is fine the way it is now , the only problem is the Golden Fox Strike - Wild Strike - Shattering Assault. for me, this skill has never been a problem 189.70.157.91 00:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because there's no other realistic way to reliably take advantage of its insane recharge. This needs recharge nerf far more than Golden Fox needs a nerf. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 01:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like the damage to be +damage, for consistencies sake.--Skye Marin 05:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, this already does plenty of damage when the listed damage is replaced by your normal attack damage... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 06:16, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah and it's pretty stupid when it sundercrits and instakills someone. All the damage this skill deals is multiplied by criticals and completely armor respecting. --TimeToGetIntense 07:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would also prefer this skill to use armor ignoring damage like everything else. Its mechanic is stupid and inconsistent with every other attack skill in the game.  In fact I'd prefer to see it as +5...50 damage and blockable rather than the way it is now.  Even then it will be a powerful tool against blockway since two attacks means a good chance to connect and strip at least one prot.  --Symbol 10:27, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it would be too potent once it doesn't deal all armor respecting damage. Once I was Monking and there was this Assassin and Warrior, they telegraphed a spike so I went into Disciplined Stance and kited a little, well the Sin just went like "O --85.207.210.115 18:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)hi, 127, 127 Shattering Assault! YOU'RE DEAD! HAHA!", That's the problem I have with how this skill works. If it was a sane attack that I couldn't block, big deal, I still would have survived probably. --TimeToGetIntense 22:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Need nerf...No monk can stand more than 20 seconds under this. Lightblade 03:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why you have your team pressure the Assassin. There's nothing overpowered about this skill as long as it doesn't sundercrit because Assassins are really bad at keeping up an extended offense under pressure. --TimeToGetIntense 13:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You summed it up right TimeToGetIntense Just perfectly /highfive -- Ninja Dragon  [[Image:User Ninja Dragon sig.png|20px]] 06:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * So you're telling me this skill is problematic so long as it can cause a critical hit? Oh ok. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 10:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Counter: Hexes, something we all hate. And stack enchant remove. Lightblade 20:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Not overpowered. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:24, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, all it does is make your prot monks useless. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 21:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Armond, what I am saying is that this skill is problematic as long as all of its damage can be multiplied by criticals and armor. Right now it deals 50 on each hit damage at 15 Dagger Mastery, 50 armor respecting damage. In other words, your base attack damage is set to 50. If you critical hit, that's 50*1.41 = 71 damage against 66 AL (66 is your baseline at 15 mastery). I don't want to bother with the armor calculations to get the value for 60 AL, but I think you get the idea. Then the real kicker is when you get Sundering proc at the same time. I've been hit for 127 on both hits from this skill before. --TimeToGetIntense 23:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Noes! This is what makes my only assassin good! :( -  Vanguard  12:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

There is only one lead that ignores blocking, and it requires the assassin to be enchanted. He also needs to be free of blind and miss-causing hexes. The gfs-ws-sa combo is NOT 100% unstoppable. Furthermore, the 10 energy cost of Shattering Assault is enough to prevent constant spamming. Try it yourselves, the energy is pretty limited. Leave SA and GFS alone. 222.127.223.69 00:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Shinde


 * Agreed on poster above, any melee-hate works against it except blocks and 20 energy/combo is too much to repeat all the time so you can't really spam it. Also if you remove assassins enchantment you can block the first attack. 137.163.16.66 07:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you read the bar I posted above? That bar can keep constant Shattering Assault coming.  You get 2 enchantments removed every 4~6 seconds, bypassing block and blind, and cannot be linebacked by warrior.  Lightblade 10:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah it's good. Except for the counters you're already aware of.  And if the blind is covered.  And that you have to be in melee range and use an attack skill to remove a condition.  222.127.209.212 05:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde
 * Aside melee-hate hexes, snaring/kiting makes this useless. 200.94.163.166 07:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, hex doesn't work anymore. The build I've posted is frequently found in TA.  Where it's parted with a monk backline as well as a monk smiter.  There will be 2 monks removing hexes.  As for covered blind, it doesn't work either.  Assassin's Remedy triggers on attack skills, even those that miss.  An assassin attack skill that's out of order will recharge immediately.  So you can continuously activate Critical Strikes to remove all covered conditions.  A kiting monk is not a healing monk.  You can't kite all the time or your team will get slaughtered.  Lightblade 16:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd like this skill to deal +armor ignoring damage too. Just to make it consistent with all other attack skills. - Zaxares 07:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

rain4est's and Nuklear's discussion
Hi! I am mostly hangin in RA, TA (r7) and HB, so I might give you another oppinion. In 4 vs 4 monks have to generally rely only on them selfs. What is overpowered, that (as a monk) there are only 2 possible skills that stops it: Shield bash and Riposte, since they are not stances, but skills. This build also generaly ignores blind (remedy). There is no other self defence against this skill. In TA battles generally dont last that long so that will NOT lead in energy failure of this build will not occure. Most common combo is 2 shattering sins and 2 healers. Wins all. But I guess until the overusage of certain skill wont touch HA or GvG (as sin signet spiker that ruined TA for like a 1/2 year) noone cares. Since with 2 shattering sins comes 2 healers, it very difficult to overhex them for 100% time. This leads to constant growth of populatity of "primary" healers (not prots). If you look at it in this point, you might (or not) agree. I am not saying it needs major nefr but maybe a bit lowere damage capab of this skill would bring more skillfulness to TA again:-)--Rain4est 18:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * @ above poster, riposte doesn't stop this skill. Oh, and you should be carring a monk support character, or you will get rolled. I think the problem here derives from the fact htat the combo is so fucking robust. Blocks don't work, blind doesn't work, enchant don't work... all we have is WoD and Miss hexes. How about making shattering assault an easily interruptable skill? Or maybe, nerf recharge. A dual so powerful (It does have teh potential to do 250 damage, destroy two enchants, and it is unbloackable) should be a little more... restricting. So, either a) Make shattering easily interruptable, b) Make it recharge in 20 seconds, or, c) Make it cost 15 energy.  NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  18:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * hi... sorry for misunderstanding, riposte was meant to be used against critical strike (a form of e-block) - and since it is a skill, it can be used during the chain - which will make the sin less offensive, however shield bash works nice. about additional support. Sure? But Rt wont help here. So guess another healer (god damn no prot again). But that is what I was kinda talking about. This game is so reduced to 2 healers and 2 shattering sins xd. I am generally no a fan of the idea that some overusage of a skill should lead in necessity of 2 healers in TA/RA other wise 1 prot is enough to make 20-30 wins in TA/RA, believe me. This build just made me angry. I use escape/return monk. But escape is stance xd and return has high recharge time for to be concidered "anti-skill" for shattering assalut.


 * you izzy still might think it s ok! but it is not! I cannot believe that you will let the only survivable monk be shield bash Woh, cause if you wont stop it no diversity will be soon in TA. (Not mentioning that you will most likely meet spike caster team in next round where 2 healers will do a shit.)


 * ad a) Very few skills in Guild Wars are easily interuptable, each of them for it´s very good reason. Neffer overpowered skill is not a reason that matches original Guild Wars concept. and on top we dont want the skill to be neffered to be unusable, right?


 * ad b) recharge 20 second is a bit to high, I would think about 12, but defenately not less then 10 since sins have another unblockable dual strike.


 * ad c) cost 15e., I am not really fan of that, since there is already one attack skill that costs 15e and it s also meant to be used for preasure.
 * I would recommend either recharge time or better, remove unblockable effect. Removeing unblockable effect would let monks to use stances after wild strike while not harming the skills furher ussage. This change would maintain both sides pretty playable and very challangeing (at least for the monk).


 * For all above stated, I propose
 * 1) make recharge time 6 seconds instead of 4, and
 * 2) remove unblockable effect.--Rain4est 19:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That ruins the idea of a 'defense breaker' skill. as it is, it is a monk breaker. Personally, I am a fan of the potency this skill has, the frequency of the attacks bother me. That's why 20 secs is not bad - you still hurt when you hit, but it no longer is a "spike every 4 seconds" skill. NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  21:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Dang= you stole both the idea and the wording! anyway, I stink its OP that way - Too spikey, still. And recharge doesn't matter much when the rest of your combo recharges. NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  21:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * no, it should be a defense breaker, not a monk braker like it is now. NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  21:41, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I deleted my suggestions of changing this skill on izzys page and I wont add it any soon until we (:D) decide what to do and find viable arguements to support it.

For now we agree it is a bit overpowered and in TA it generally doesnt have any counter beside shield bash. We also agree that something has to be done. It is my priority nowadays to do something with this skill, because for me, as a core TA player this skill is PAIN IN MY ASS and ruins the experience xd. --Rain4est 22:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * First, I'd say that the change to Assasin's remedy should stay. Second, we need some sort of nerf to the frequency to the sin's attacks - I'm think a cost increase to 15 energy or recharge increase to 20 seconds. The first suggestion forces the sins to spam critstrike moar, which opens em up to interrupts. I think either of those would fix it. NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  18:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel that 20 seconds would be too much though, since they could just laugh and recast their enchants. 8-10 seconds would be more reasonable, since it would keep it as a pressure skill without ruining it's use. --Kalas Silvern 22:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This needs to stop being a pressure skill. 2 enchants removed, 200dmg and unblockable every 8 secs is broken. The idea here would be to keep it as a spike skill. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  11:03, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And, since dev's hate single character spikes, it gets nerfed to hell like the rest of the class. Leave it as pressure, find some other way to balance, like being unable to trigger sundering wep mods.  And with the strength of healing and prot right now, we need something powerful to tear through it, or matches just become long, drawn out, boring healfests.  Sins should be the people to get through defenses while doing damage- by bringing a sin, you're making your frontline far more fragile to other melees.  --Kalas Silvern 05:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What? Devs love spingle char spikes, why do you think they made assassins in the first place? Oh, and when did prot become so damn broken? "And with the strength of healing and prot right now, we need something powerful to tear through it, or matches just become long, drawn out, boring healfests." I assume you refer to TA? if so, ur doing it rong. bring some sort of shutdown, WoD is broken, and a BB warrior. Monks go down crazy fast. That's cause healing hasn't changed much - but offense has benefited from power creep and became insidiously broken.


 * Having assassins as pressure chars is bad for the game. When that happens, we get unfun shit like FEARway, SA in TA, hell, even renoway in GvG. It sucks when assasins become pressure chars. Turning this into a spike skill is the best way to go - obviously, it was not intended as a pressuer skill, or it wouldn't deal around 150 damage, 250 on crit. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  18:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I quote this from the dev page- it's in regards to dervishes, but the start is what bothers me. "Overall, we will closely watch the potential of strong single-character spikes to bring them in line, especially with the Dervish."  That was the march 6th skill balance.  And since they hate our spike ability, why can't we pressure.  As far as I know, healing and prot are both quite powerful right now- and in smaller teams, you may not have a space for the defense you need and the shutdown.  The SA TA build uses two monks and two frontliners.  As far as I know, most teams run one or two monks, and two damage dealers.  What would you sacrifice, your defense or your offense?  Admittedly, GvG is a different story, since you can afford to bring those shutdown characters.  Then again, as far as I know, SA sins aren't used much in GvG.  And I think that's 250 on a dual sundercrit- personally, the max I've seen is 87 on a regular crit.  And enchant removal at the end of a spike? Really useful.  I do dislike that it renders prot monks nearly useless.  However, there are plenty of skills that can render entire builds useless (b-surge against melee anyone?). --Kalas Silvern 23:46, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

TBH, SA sins aren't used very much in high-level pvp. They are broken in lower level pvp but hey that's what shield bash is for. I think this just needs a recharge increase in line with nine-tail strike at moste. Demosthenes 17:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I havn't been playing very long so excuse me if i say sumthing stupid but as far as i see a way to kill them is just to take a blood necro have them steal health. if they can steal health while the sin is running up they have a chance to kill before the sin can do anything. have them hex as well since remedy does nothing about hexes.