Feedback talk:Game updates/20101209

You're not funny.

Derv Update
Lovin the new skills. <3 Vald [Citation Needed]  02:05, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, right? 67.149.248.3 02:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Avatar of Dhuum...just wow. --173.32.190.24 02:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Please stop trolling the updates page. ♥ &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  2:15, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Avatar of Dhuum? ~is caught in the trolling net~ That would be quite exciting. :D And this looks more like a GvG update, wish they'd give us hints as to how they're changing my beloved Dervs. (Q.Q) 68.144.77.185 02:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Wounding Strike will instantly remove a target from the match. 75.159.107.1 02:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that comment up the top was put there for a reason. – NuclearDuckie 02:18, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Makes you wonder if all the people that go "Derv update <3" have anything better to do. Seriously. Zetta 02:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Avatar of Dhuum: Elite Form. For 10...40...60 seconds, you have +1...4...6 health regeneration and cannot be interrupted or knocked-down. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. (25e 2c 60r) 173.32.190.24 02:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait... that's a real new form? (O.o) I thought people were just kidding about it, likewise for the new Dervish skills (where are you finding all of these things?)68.144.77.185 02:39, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No. -- ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 03:00, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * <///3 68.144.77.185 03:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Raine. -- Kirbman 03:51, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * lol. Avatar of Dhuum would be the very end of guild wars if it was a player usable skill. It'd fail so hard it had a good chance of tipping me back to not risking GW2 - VileLasagna 06:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The scythe now shoots crescent moon shaped lazor beamz when swung at full health.--114.77.146.102 09:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Developer Update: Dervishes were not fun to play, so we decided to make Guild Wars into a fighting game.  Dervishes can spam fire-balls all day.  68.193.122.145 20:50, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

The developer update said that the derv update is next. By "next", they mean February. Karate Jesus   15:19, 14 December 2010  (UTC)

Yeah!
Windows Media Center is once again opening when I start Guild Wars! Kyle van der Meer  02:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * remove -mc from propeties:)
 * Or run with texmod! &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  2:20, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)

Why would you even make this page before we know what the update was for?
It's just fucking asking for it. 75.159.107.1 02:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * ^^ smartest anon ever. Also, please add zombie mobs to the game so we can have Emily back. New web updater person is lacking. Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •
 * awtch thats harsh you realy shoud give ppl the chance to prove themselves Naloj 07:56, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Six years is long enough 68.193.122.145 20:51, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Finally
In the depths of the African jungle, known only to its inhabitants as the Sawaharina, the Arena Net Recruitment Team trudged for endless years. Searching for a soul to fix their withering game. Years passed without success, resulting in countless angry players and mindless gimmicky metas before they found him. Bob the chimp. The newest recruit of ANet, charged with balancing the game. Little did they know that he would balance it to a reasonable standard, using his highly evolved brain. Unfortunately I have serious doubts that Bob is working on the Dervish update and the update shouldn't be expected to be even that of a moderate standard without him. With this current update I think he's in for a promotion. -- S ilven 02:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to echo that, but without the dripping condescension and sarcasm. Good update!  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  2:55, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering they fixed the spell thing for Aegis (PvP), I figured they'd have done Shadow Form (PvP) too, but it's something. -- ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 02:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't bother reading all of it, but it looks like it hasn't totally broken anything, which is a welcome change from the norm. Maybe the new guy listens to the people still on the test crew more. –Jette 03:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Only complaints I have are that they buffed airspike (HA doesn't exist) and trip phys (indirectly, with snare and Draw nerfs), but I'm actually willing to believe that that'll get fixed, now. &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  3:06, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh and patient nerf, wtf? &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  3:20, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't forget nerf to DC, I was just starting to have fun with that skill, come the bloody hell on! Maybe I should stop liking things, I mean, we all saw how horrifically slaughtered Fast Casting was, now I this one... Wanna bet paras are getting extra nerfs on the next update as a response to me playing "It's just a Flesh Wound!" on Aspenwood every once in a while? - VileLasagna 07:12, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, I too used "It's just a Flesh Wound!" all the time in Fort Aspenwood, I think it's nice you don't need any points in Motivation to remove all the conditions. I think I pinged my commander IJAFW build around to a few people that asked me to. I hope it stays like that. If anything, Paragons need a buff, not a nerf. But that's me. There's still people out there that would love to see them get more nerfed than they already are, and keep them broken. I don't see why either. =( [[Image:User_Ardangoeswiki_19px-UserArdan_sig.jpg|19px]] Ardangoeswiki 13:40, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Today is a great day for Turtles
Us Luxon Turtles of Fort Aspenwood officially claim Fort Aspenwood as ours today. When we shoot and remove Patient Spirit, it no more pre-heals Gunther/NPCs/Players, and it now has no effect at all. No more pre-heals. This is the day Luxons take over Fort Aspenwood for good, this is a great day for Turtles. ALL Hail the Almighty Turtles! (still waiting for Siege Turtle Attack buff to remove weapon spells, chants, shouts, preparations and stances, and separate damage packets to bypass Protective Spirit) 173.32.190.24 03:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I also like to make readable sentences...and sign! -- S ilven User Silven sig.jpg 03:26, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * And also remove all spirit and nature ritual effects. Can't forget those!  &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  3:30, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * No! Dont remove Nature Rituals, us Turtles still love it when EoE kills Gunther! 173.32.190.24 03:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * They could change the damage type to holy so that minion masters and rangers get blasted to pieces! Cirian 04:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * FA would be kind of fun if the turtles didn't remove enchantments. As it is, it's bad for both sides: not being able to use enchantments without a cover that's available and usable every 7.5 seconds makes about 50% or more of all builds nonviable for Kurzicks, but because the NPCs are broken and a good 4/5 players don't know what they're doing, Kurzicks still win 70% of the time. Also, patient spirit change was really weird. Are they trying to make Shatter ENchantment and similar more effective against it or make CoP less powerful? –Jette 04:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * For a change, actually try killing the turtles.70.252.53.100 16:23, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Competent monks and rits on the Kurzick team most of that 70% of the time, I'd wager.
 * They added enchant removal way back when because monks bonded gate NPCs and Luxons almost always lost against a Kurzick team with more than one competent monk (not that too much has really changed). NPCs being broken I agree with though; Luxons get four warriors and Kurzicks get melee hate (and a couple PI mesmers). -- ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 05:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The definition of competent is fungible. The gate-bonding thing was abusive, but making most enchantments useless was a very poor way of handling it. One reason the place is unbalanced is because 90% of the people who play there are terrible; in its current state if the players of both sides were competent I could nearly guarantee you the Luxons would win almost every time since the Kurzicks can't use enchantments effectively (and have a Guild Lord with only 480 health, no amulet and a really bad habit of running out of his nest). The Luxon warriors seriously harass players because of their ability to use Coward! perfectly, but are mostly useless against NPCs since the NPCs are designed to deal with them (the intention was for them to harm NPCs but get rolled over by players -- figures).


 * The place is badly designed, plain and simple. If I had the tools, the patience and the contacts to make it better I would, but I don't really have any of those three things right now, so it stays bad, like a lot of the game. –Jette 05:23, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It is low-end PvP, so bad players will be abundant. I don't know about making enchantments useless, though, as I still see people bonding gates to similar effect. Obviously not as effective as before, but still an excellent stall tactic, which is the best way for Kurzicks to play really. -- ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 05:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That's my point: it's a trademark ANet skill balance move; ignoring the problem entirely while destroying something totally unrelated (I'm too lazy to pipe more skills; by now you should get the point anyway). I can't wait to see what they do to "fix"... what's the big problem these days? It's all become so homogenous I can't tell anymore. Smiting prayers? GvG mechanics? I don't think I've played in so long I've gone and forgotten why I dislike the game. Maybe I should give in and buy a playstation. –Jette 06:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * "Bring me more demons' souls when you can" - VileLasagna 06:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That reminds me, I built a demilich a few weeks ago. A friend of mine who's a reverend in the church of satan (the LaVeyan one, not the real one) got me an awkward birthday gift a few years back; it was a skull from a little girl in France. I didn't know what to do with it until someone linked me to the D&D wiki for something and, like most wikis, I ended up reading 80 pages before I pulled away. More importantly, I found the concept art of a demilich — it's a little skull with a bunch of gems in it. I thought to myself "hey, I could do that!" so I went out and bought a number of high-quality replica gemstones (it's creepy enough on its own, no one is going to check the authenticity of the jewels) and put two big green ones into her eye sockets, then removed her teeth with a pair of pliers and replaced them with artifical rubies. It looks really cool, I wish I knew how to use the camera in my phone. –Jette 06:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * A real shame D&D died horribly with 4th edition. Also needs moar pics - VileLasagna 07:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It was killed by 3rd Edition as far as I was concerned, when they made multiclassing amazing for martial characters but a crippling lobotomy for spellcasters. 2nd edition probably has the best legacy in gaming culture imo. Oddly enough after learning about the legendary Tarasque in D'n'D, I now end up living next to their real life town of origin, Tarascon. Is it wrong to get occasional Tarasque-farming thoughts? Phat lewt is on my doorstep! Cirian 14:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Multiclassing bad for casters in 3rd ed? Clearly we're talking about completely different games here - VileLasagna 15:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Relative to 2nd ed, I stand by what I said. Dabbling in a second class as a primary caster is extremely debilitating under 3rd ed rules due to the different levelling mechanics. I wasn't impressed with 4th ed rules either, although 2nd ed did get very... nebulous. I'm sure some of the 2nd ed video games took liberties with the rules. Cleric/Rangers in Baldur's Gate with access to tier 7 druid AND cleric spells? I'll have some of that! Cirian 14:27, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're abandoning a caster prof to start on a new unrelated base class such as, warrior, then yeah. But really, with a feat every 5 levels, Wizard really just pushes you into prestige classes, there's really no way of NOT doing it (same with sorcerers but they just fail epically and completely so let's skip them and praise Wizards for treating them like aNet treats smiting prayers). Clerics are not very different in this sense either, you really just pick the first 5-7 levels and jump on the prestige of your choice. And yeah, mechanically 2nd really need help and leveling mechanics was surely one of the points where it did, but, alas... I do miss the times where you would kneel, pray and rejoice that you can FINALLY cast your first eighth-lvl spell and there was no doubt that it just HAD to be Ruby Ray of Reversal (and then for the second one you could consider Abi-Dhalzin)... Those where the times to be a wizard now it's all "balance" and shit... ("I'm sorry, warriors have bad will saves, see, so we're gonna nerf all your illusion and enchantment, m'kay?") - VileLasagna 16:48, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * How did this even get onto the subject of D&D? And anyway, there's a difference between multiclassing into a base class and taking a PrC. 86.185.0.42 10:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Not much of a difference mechanically. And, nevertheless, I acknowledged said difference - VileLasagna 10:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I do find it amusing that since the update the Factions map has shown nothing but Luxon. That's some wicked balance right there. Ghosst   •  Talk  •
 * It's been that way for months. It's because a lot of Kurzicks are bad, I guess. I think that causing such a rift in the community (Kurzicks versus Luxons) was a bad decision for the game, and it just made choosing a guild (and selling items in southern Canthan regions) needlessly complicated. –Jette 21:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah it's been horribly slanted for a while, but since the update it's even worse. At least it makes me lol. Ghosst  [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  •  Talk  •

Bug Fixes
Please just remove the redundant list of conditions in those skill descriptions. While you're fixing skill descriptions, could you please update the descriptions of Sunspear Rebirth Signet, Lightbringer's Gaze, and Lightbringer Signet to display based on title levels? -- Kirbman 04:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Those descriptions are for new players. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 04:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * hmm, I would think less cluttered "all vonditions" would be more comprehensible for those few new people added to the player base after 5 years. Admit it, those descriptions are all there as a leftover reminder of yester-year...   [[Image:User_Kyle_van_der_Meer_Sig_Pic.png|15px]]Kyle van der Meer  18:33, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Patient Spirit Changes
Having seen a few comments against the patient spirit changes, I just thought I'd share a different view. Removing an enchantment is supposed to be a benefit. With a recharge of 4 seconds, it is quick to recast. If the healing still occurs when patient spirit is removed, then it almost becomes a benefit to the enchanted person to have it removed. In comparison to cover enchantments/hexes, they take up a spot on a skill bar but do not necessarily have significant effects. Ascalon Destroyer 05:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Thats the whole point. Things like shatter enchantment do a lot of armor ignoring damage and make the prot useless. Timing a perfect patient spirit is supposed to help prevent this. In pve too it's really important for covering seed of life against mobs of dervish who will now just rape. I know they're getting rid of gws 2 monks but they have got to stop trying to get rid of gws1 monks >.> FUANET

That was the whole point of Patient Spirit. It acted as a counter to Enchantment Removal while being a heal at the same time(just like Cure Hex removes a hex and heals, Dismiss Conditions removes a condition and usually heals, etc). Monks are supposed to be able to have a counter to practically everything in this game, that's the whole point of a monk(we call it game balance). Patient Spirit was good because it was a reliable source of healing(not anymore). Many spikes start with enchantment removal(PoD, Rend, Strip) to break up Prot enchants, or includes enchantment removal once the enemy prot monk finishes casting prots. In those cases, the healer monk could use Patient Spirit on the target to first prevent 1 extra prot enchantment from being lost(except in Rend case), and second to heal the target before/during the spike and hopefully(usually) he survives and you get enough time to heal more/prot more. That was the old Patient Spirit. Now with the new one, if you pre-cast Patient Spirit and it gets removed, your target does not get healed. So now you cannot counter spikes that include enchantment removal, and if your target was not at full hp the moment his prots get kicked, he is gonna die.

Old case: Target ally has 300/600HP and Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption and Patient Spirit. Enemy uses Rend Enchantments. Target ally now has 414/600HP then gets spiked for 200 damage and Deep Wound. Target ally survives with 114/600HP, and a Deep Wound. Now you remove the Deep Wound and heal up.

New case: Target ally has 300/600HP and Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption and Patient Spirit. Enemy uses Rend Enchantments. Target ally now has 300/600HP then gets spiked for 200 damage and Deep Wound. Target ally dies.

The reason why I chose 300/600HP? The target ally we are speaking of is usually yourself right after you used Infuse Health. This makes Infuse Health an EXTREMELY RISKY skill to run on monks now, if there are no other sources of heals available. 200 damage + Deep Wound is actually easy to pull off for any decent spikes on a 60 AR target...

The fact is, Patient Spirit just became a very unreliable healing skill. Before, if you precasted it on your ally knowing that that ally is about to get spiked(this is known as good "proting" for lack of better word), you could always EXPECT the healing to occur within 2 seconds(if it gets removed, this happens sooner). Guaranteed. Now, if you precasted it on your ally knowing that that ally is about to get spiked, you CANNOT EXPECT the healing to occur(at all), there is no guarantee of that. Which means that if you are relying on Patient Spirit(which practically every healer monk does at the moment), bad surprises are coming your way(your target dies). In cases where your target is yourself, you die. Simple. So you cannot depend on this as your self-heal anymore either.

The Developer Update compares Patient Spirit to Wastrel's Worry. Know this: 5 energy means practically nothing to a mesmer, given their easy e-management. 5 energy makes the difference between a living and a dead ally for a monk, whichever energy management method you choose. 173.32.190.24 06:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Patient spirit was very very powerful. It was a favourite among quite a lot of monks and many a healing bar felt incomplete without it. And PS was simply that good. With the nerf now, it's not rubbish or anything, but the uncertainty factor really massacres it. Besides the obvious direct loss of the synergy with Contemplation of Purity, PS can simply be a waste of energy now and when you're a monk you're not really in a position to make a bet, very unlike Wastrel's Worry where if if gets removed you're not losing almost anything, really. And in that sense I believe these two skills have a world of difference between them. I can understand where this update is coming from, can feel better knowing that my turtles get extra pressure on Gunther but still can't say I agree with this in the end - VileLasagna 07:05, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * This skill was already situational(do not use on targets who are at low HP as a last effort to heal, it might "not heal in time"). Now add the extra "no effect if ends early" to this, and you get a skill that practically spells out "50% chance of failure". You cannot compare a monk skill and a mesmer skill. Peace and Harmony removes 9 hexes(and also removes conditions and provides further protection against both and gets Favor heals, same attribute) at 5e 1/4cast. Expel Hexes only removes 2 hexes at 1/2cast(with Fast Cast). Wanna compare those two for me?173.32.190.24 07:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Arena monks go like this=> :"-(  CP can no longer be taken as a powerful self-heal when combined with Patient Spirit... Looks like it's back to Veil... But, oright, we buffed Edenial on mesmers, so you can't maintain veil for more than a few seconds before getting your energy really vaped... looks like it's back to Remove Hex... or a completely new monk meta...  Killing the PS+CP combo is a shot to the nuts that monks did NOT deserve.  apparently "consistency" > all. 24.18.242.167 07:57, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed that PS is a bit of an overpowered skill, but that balance is as good as useless since it has such a short duration and recharge stripping it is nearly useless, also it nerfs the dervish in an indirect way because it is also being used for stripping and a quick enchantment to cover vital enchantments when using a skill that strips an enchantment. I can't really approve of this new function.Damysticreaper 12:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Cry out with me as one: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! DemonicFahrirDesecrate_Enchantments.jpg 16:04, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * *sacs* WhyyyyyyyyyyyyDemonicFahrirDesecrate_Enchantments.jpg 16:04, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Patient Spirit was nowhere near overpowered, but in fact one of the few decent nonelite healing skills. During the days of Prophecies to mid-factions, teams could bring a healer, a protter, and a supportive healer like an Eprod ele or fastcaster, and keep up with the damage. With Nightfall release, most teams had to resort to a 3-monk backline and defensive support such as blindbots to keep losses to a minimum because of many powerful skills suddenly being dropped into the game without any compensation to monk skills. Since then, more and more power has been added to offensive characters while the backline has almost the exact same tools as they had at release, and some of their more effective skills have been nerfed, just because shitty dervs either cannot see a huge globe forming over their target's head or are too dumb to switch targets.  Koda  [[Image:User_Koda_Kumi_UT.jpeg‎|19px]]  Kumi  20:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

With all the QQ going on I don't get peoples logic, they want patient spirit to act as a prot AND a heal? No, jst no. Either leave it as it is (a heal), or make it so that it only heals when removed prematurely (a prot). TL;DR: Less QQ more logic pl0x. 79.203.92.18 21:26, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Monks are not supposed to counter everything in the game.
 * 2) If something counters everything in the game, that's not what "we" call game balance. If you think balance is "monks > everything else," you understand nothing about this game.
 * Where is your ranger? Where is your mesmer? Do you just play the standard faceroll meta bars? Good teams don't rely on their monks to counter spikes. They rely on their support midliners to counter spikes. PvP is not PvE. You can't win by throwing 1337 c0m80 defense builds on your bar.
 * Yes he is, because by the sound of what you're saying, your team doesn't bring monks anyway. Low health targets are the best to spike. Good monks know this, and will heal those targets BEFORE they get spiked. It's called being good. You should try it sometime.
 * Losing half your life wasn't risky before? Monks have been using Infuse in PvP since GW came out. Patient is an EotN skill. They were using it for three years before Patient. You know, there's this thing called being good I told you about. It involves knowing when infusing is a good idea (like, not when a warrior is right next to you).
 * I think this is just a bad case of "Someone thinks they're good at PvP when they really aren't." ~Shard [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well seeing that statement it should have become obvious that these nerfs are a message to non monks NOT to complely rely on monks to stay alive. With this non monks should learn to take some effective self support and damage prevention/healing skills to live longer instead of calling it a monk's job all of the time. There is a pretty damn good reason why professions in GW2 are all about self-survival and has no dedicated healer class. These changes should be seen that anet encourages players to be better at self survival instead of giving the monk a hard time. So instead of making the monk's job harder by just havving killing skills, make the monk's job easier by taking skills that keep you alive instead of calling the balance a failure.Damysticreaper 12:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally I keep as far away from GW2 as I can for things like this. Having no dedicated healer class is a mistake, monk's one of the most enjoyable classes in GW. And horrible people will always be horrible people without interest, hard work and help from people who are no longer horrible. If you rely on PUGs and assume they're decent then you're the horrible one, really, and if your mates aren't decent enough to be convinced to balance their bar a bit, then you need to find better company. I understand where you're coming from, but where you're taking this to is the wrong direction, imo - VileLasagna 14:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Losing half your life wasn't risky before? Monks have been using Infuse in PvP since GW came out. Patient is an EotN skill. They were using it for three years before Patient. You know, there's this thing called being good I told you about. It involves knowing when infusing is a good idea (like, not when a warrior is right next to you).
 * I think this is just a bad case of "Someone thinks they're good at PvP when they really aren't." ~Shard [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well seeing that statement it should have become obvious that these nerfs are a message to non monks NOT to complely rely on monks to stay alive. With this non monks should learn to take some effective self support and damage prevention/healing skills to live longer instead of calling it a monk's job all of the time. There is a pretty damn good reason why professions in GW2 are all about self-survival and has no dedicated healer class. These changes should be seen that anet encourages players to be better at self survival instead of giving the monk a hard time. So instead of making the monk's job harder by just havving killing skills, make the monk's job easier by taking skills that keep you alive instead of calling the balance a failure.Damysticreaper 12:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally I keep as far away from GW2 as I can for things like this. Having no dedicated healer class is a mistake, monk's one of the most enjoyable classes in GW. And horrible people will always be horrible people without interest, hard work and help from people who are no longer horrible. If you rely on PUGs and assume they're decent then you're the horrible one, really, and if your mates aren't decent enough to be convinced to balance their bar a bit, then you need to find better company. I understand where you're coming from, but where you're taking this to is the wrong direction, imo - VileLasagna 14:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Fail
A whole bunch of skills that were not even a problem got nerfed and some buffed when there are things the desperatly need a nerf (or pvp skill version). WoH in PvP is definatly one, it's way overpowered due to it healing for 300ish and being easily spamable. Necro bombers (aka JQ bombers) being another. Why aren't these being addresed, why aren't they being nerfed, why are skills no one really uses getting nerfed, why does Anet or more specific, Izzy, suck at trying to balance the game?
 * lol, Izzy doesn't do the balancing anymore. Also, saying most of those skills weren't being used a good joke! --frostels 08:22, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Necrobombers can hardly be called OP since they are fragile and easily countered with enchantment removal with adition that their skills have fairly long recharge times and are only good for 1 thing, capping shrines and nothing else. Dispite it's effectiveness if succesful it can only do 1 thing properly, and its a build that makes good use of some severly underused skills.Damysticreaper 12:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah bombers may be annoying but at least they also have to dedicate their whole to capping. Monks are the highest threat. ROJ then speed up and protect turtle. Previously Unsigned 15:59, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Also a single competent monk with any heals makes a shrine invulnerable to bombers alone, just like any single player build.
 * Monks are a larger problem (though it's a fun challenge for a mesmer =P), and in some older update notes they said a rebalancing of smiting prayers was coming up, somewhere after the dervish update. -- ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 19:31, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Smiting rebalanced? That and the easter bunny, you mean? Unless by rebalancing they mean more nerfs, then all is fine. Smiting is really a broken line, unfortunately. Half the skills are overnerfed and the ones which are good never seem to manage a tab identity. Quite sad, really - VileLasagna 20:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Smiting will be buffed after GW2 is released. Soooo... who cares? 70.252.53.100 16:27, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe they could just make Smiting a pure offensive line and scrap the support role they have such difficulty balancing. Yes, then you could have hybrids with both healing and damage, but Rits can already do that, and most decent monk elites now disable smiting prayers anyway (as lame a way of balancing things that is). Widowmaker 12:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but it would make for a very lame line. It's kinda like RoJ, it's shiny, for sure but it's like "Oh, hai guise! I was making my ele but accidentally clicked monk on the character creation screen then proceeded to use this and pretend it never happened, lololololol". Imo, things like smite condition, smite hex and holy wrath are the kind of things that go for a nice "tab identity" in smiting prayers, in the way that it punishes enemies for attacking your party. Smiting is over-nerfed and the team that deals specifically with monks needs to discover the whole (PvP) thing, because most of those nerfs even make it to PvE, where they were never a problem. Look at Draw Conditions, for instance. It's not even smiting and suddenly it got the nerfbat extended into PvE as well. Monks have a niche they're the one class specialized in healing and protection, even rits have one line in that and the other tabs for other stuff... Monks should bloody rule the role but the way it is, rits can heal for similar amounts (although imo monks still win this), they remove conditions better without elites and if elites come in play paras just trounce everyone. Rits don't remove hexes though, but Mesmers do and better than monks most of the time and a protter monk will have to be very very good to justify himself over a shelter twister. So monks are kinda being pushed into a PvP niche where they're still essential due to their potential of bar stretching (they're still the only ones who can have a bar that does all of that and is still kinda decent) but losing in every area to non-specialized classes. They need more love - VileLasagna 14:10, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

...we will continue to monitor the situation and act as needed.
Say, like toning down the target heal of Healing Burst a bit? - J.P. Talk  08:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

ANet's Plan
Kill all ally-healing from this game. Everyone should take a self-heal. That way PvP will not require any ally red barring. First one to knock the whole red bars of the opposing team completely is declared the winner of RA/GvG/Codex/HA. This way matches wont be completely dependent on healers anymore. PvP will go extremely fast, no more extending matches due to excessive healing(30 seconds per match? less) or whatever. Learn to use your self-heal right if you wanna win. FA will be determined by how much Amber Kurzicks run(or how much destruction Turtles did), no more healing turtles, no more healing gunther. JQ will be overrun by bombers and RoJ. Red caps blue, blue caps red, no more healing shrines. Does this sound familiar? They already said they have planned this in GW2, they are testing this in GW1 first right now. No more healer class, GW1 or GW2. 173.32.190.24 09:44, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Go back to hiding under a table with your tin-foil hat. Zetta 10:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody's buying gw2 -- S ilven User Silven sig.jpg 10:12, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll probably buy it just so I can follow my guild there. But please, don't make me think about it too much, I might listen to reason instead and remember to look at horrors such as "Kurz murder Luxons", all that excess of apocalypse and the Silvari.. oh dear, them... this is why we can't have good things... So yeah, let's try and ignore GW2 for now and just hope for the best - VileLasagna 14:18, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * For a minute I thought Mr IP was describing Unreal Tournament. Not much healing of allies in that, either, but otherwise the PvP objectives are remarkably similar: assualt/defend this base, run this flag, cap this point, escort this to the goal etc. Not that I'm complaining, mind. Cirian 14:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, everybody has to take a self heal! What's the world coming to? Previously Unsigned 16:00, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh, this buff was pretty massive. So PS got nerfed, that's what, one skill on a monk's bar? And hardly a crucial one. -- ஸ Kyoshi [[Image:User_Kyoshi_sig2.png|19px]] 19:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyway, PS's nerf was hardly a big deal. It ends after 2 seconds, so in order to remove it deliberately, you have to use an enchantment removal with a 1s or lower cast time (or be a mesmer and fast-cast a 2s one) and use this pretty much right after someone uses PS. Removing PS is far from easy, so it makes sense you should get some benefit from it (just like removing Wastrel's etc). Anyway, they did this more for consistency, it just so happens that PS was powerful enough to take it anyway. 86.161.102.185 12:44, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I forgot that PS was the only self heal that monks have. What's the matter OP, don't have any other monk elite other than Boon? Rolain1 21:06, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The only non-elite, comparablely powerful, monk-primary self-heal. There are actually a lot of things you could take, but most of them are terrible. 86.185.0.42 10:21, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
^ Summary of this page, and just about every skill balance update. Learn to adapt, people. – NuclearDuckie 10:22, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ ThrainUser_Thrain_Sig.png contribs 21:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, you have figured out that people BAWWWW about changes. Now go bake a cake and celebrate that fact, because I am sure many centuries of studying mankind haven't figured that out yet. 79.203.92.18 21:28, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Slightly confused...
"Foul Feast and Melandru's Shot were over-nerfed in a previous balance patch and subsequently fell out of play." - from the dev notes. "decreased Energy gain to 0...2 per condition; decreased recharge to 4; added the following functionality: "This skill recharges twice as fast if you remove Disease from your target."" - the update for the skill. Perhaps I'm just slow, but how is a recharge change of 1 second, a conditional half-recharge, and a decrease of energy gain (where you need 12 to just hit 2 energy per condition) considered a buff? Is 1 second, conditionally 3, really better than 4 attribute points becoming worse? Not complaining, just honestly curious, because it looks more to me like an equivalency - then again, I've never been good at balancing numbers. -- Konig / talk 11:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Foul Feast is now easily paired with Angorodon's Gaze, which moved attribute to Soul Reaping. So, a Feast->Gaze combo returns a lot of energy. I wonder if Blood Magic will still see play now Curses has such easy energy management? Cirian 14:48, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Air buff
I really like the Invoke LG and the Chain LG buff in PvE. Please don't nerf them in the near future. :-) Regards: Bodri Barking 145.236.62.5 12:12, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * They weren't buffing them to buff them, iirc they used to be the exact same skill, which was loltastic. -- Tha Reckoning User- Tha Reckoning Another Sig.png 12:17, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * They were, with Invoke Lightning doing a tiny bit more damage... - J.P.[[Image:User J.P. sigicon.png| ]] Talk  12:50, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Now with Invoke LG + Chain LG with some cracked armour (+40/40) you can do a 110 dps avg against warrior primary foes in PvE HM. And I have just checked the history of Invoke LG. It wasn't this powerful ever. So I would call this update a buff. :-) Bodri Barking (for higher admins: please keep the post, time is 12:58 UTC, 10 December 2010)
 * I'm quite dazed by lack of sleep right now but I'm fairly sure that Invoke hit three targets whereas CL only hit two. Of course, since you were never actually going to cast Invoke unless you were a mesmer primary (in which case why the hell aren't you dominating instead, btw?) it all evened out in the end I guess... but they were still distinct on principle - VileLasagna 14:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Chain Lighting now has the same cast / recharge times as Deathly Swarm, but higher damage (after AP) in exchange for possible exhaustion. They look so similar in how they work now. I suppose Glyph of Swiftness would help get some extra spammage from CL/Invoke for a better DPS. Cirian 14:55, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, about time these skills got a little buff. Gives me an excuse to put my typical Assassin's Promise PvE build to sleep so I can have a little fun with my IL spike!  *very happy face* Donutdude 19:59, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Holy Expletive
This actually looks passable, except for the part that monks lost their only good nonelite heal for a wtf powerful elite heal. How are you not going to catch this with an int/diversion, as necessary as it's gonna be? -- Tha Reckoning  12:18, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, just read the notes, they're still flying blind. -- <font color="Black">Tha Reckoning User- Tha Reckoning Another Sig.png 12:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm still a fan of this new version of Healing Burst. I play mostly PvE and put it back on my hero monk's bar after last update.  Hurray for even further improvements! 98.124.14.178 23:49, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Healing Burst buff wasn't horrible, but it was just done for horrible reasons. :\ &mdash;  Raine Valen  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  23:51, 10 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * I still don't get why they're touching healing at all, that should be one of the last things to be tweaked imo. You can't nerf ps that hard this early and expect it to do well. -- <font color="Black">Tha Reckoning User- Tha Reckoning Another Sig.png 17:37, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

All the updates were pretty dartboard, but at least they finally hit FF. Morphy 18:44, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think HB needed the extra healing buff tbh, it was already comparable with Word of Healing, at least in 8-man play, especially given its shorter casting time, but w/e. 86.161.102.185 12:41, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Having trouble with textmod post update
I can't seem to get the cartography textmod to run post update. Does anyone know how to get this working again? Dante Broekhart 14:59, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Previously Unsigned 16:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Update teh .dat in the TexMod folder --[[Image:User Large sig.png|talk]] Large 16:56, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Assassins
Cool. So now you'll never see an assassin with daggers in PvP. Unless that Gladiators Defense gimmick still works. -- Briar    The Spider  01:19, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure you will, just maybe you won't keep getting teams of 3-4 assassins in RA. These skills were a tad OP in the first place; a 6-second Fox's Fangs just syncs up nicely with Death Blossom now - sure, it's not as good as it was, but 'sin attacks were limited more by energy than recharge anyway. 86.161.102.185 12:39, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is a good thing tbh, the Assassin builds were pretty dumb. Morphy 12:50, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, exactly. The whole point of assassins was meant to be chars who could spike highly effectively, just not very often, but that went completely out the window with the pressure 'sin bar. 86.185.0.42 10:20, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It's almost like you think that's a bad thing. --<font color="Black">frostels 12:46, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, Briar, you're overreacting. Assassins would be balanced if all their attack skills had 20 second recharges. This nerf does nothing to them. ~Shard  [[Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png]] 21:36, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

TBH though, not seeing a sin in any PvP ever again (or pve for that matter) would be a good thing imo, they are a headache class when it comes down to balancing them (especially because they have a fanboi following larger/worse than the justin bieber)79.203.92.18 21:40, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Somebody in here is reading things contextually. I said you'll never see an assassin with daggers in pvp. They're still awesome, obv, What with their ability to crit and all that fun stuff. But now with no dependable pressure builds available to them, and dervs being able to overpower their spike capability (and do it more often) anyway, Daggers have now become obsolete on every class including their target class. Fun stuff eh? -- Briar  User Briar Sig 3.jpg  The Spider  05:36, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yet you are so wrong, I am still seeing daggers everywhere (except in high end PvP, but lets be honest, daggers were never really popular in high end pvp, yea there were exceptions, but they just confirm the rule)82.169.222.223 13:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You never know what you're talking about, no matter how much of a generic "devastated and sarcastic" skillbalancecomment you manage to type. -<font color="Black">Cursed Angel [[Image:User Cursed Angel Signature2.jpg|19px|Q.Q]] <font face="Arial" size="1">13:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you aren't killing people with daggers you're probably doing something wrong. I don't always play assassin, but when I do, I prefer Wastrel's Collapse. –Jette 09:31, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * "daggers were never really popular in high end pvp" lol'd. Some sin builds will still see play, but at least they are no where near as OP as before. --<font color="Black">frostels 13:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Reading skills are OP on the internet as well ;) 82.169.222.223 16:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You are most likely referring to where you stated "yea there were exceptions" to which I have to say, does over the last year count as an exception? --<font color="Black">frostels 17:07, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The passed year I have seen more teams without daggers than with daggers, of the teams with daggers most of em weren't even sins but rangers (or casters using op spells), iirc the heading says "assassins" though. As I said, reading skills are a useful tool... 82.169.222.223 19:20, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol @ Spirit's Strength. l2strip - VileLasagna 02:25, 15 December 2010 (UTC)