Talk:Mesmer armor

Render upload begins
Hi guys! I am going to start filling in the images for the mesmer page today.Here are some details: These will start to go up shortly! --Emily Diehl 15:45, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * I am taking the female shots with her facing the right for best armor exposure.
 * I am running into a bit of an issue with certain detail textures for some reason. If you see any set that is particularly off, let me know the image that is wrong and I will add it to a list of pieces to re-cap when the issue that's causing this gets sorted out.
 * I am taking mask-less pics per example. Mask shots can be taken as well, although I think you guys wanted them on a different page anyways.
 * *Worship*, Tnx you so much, this wiki is gonna be the no 1 stop for armor ~ Kurd [[Image:Kurdsig.png]]16:13, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * At the least. Emily was speaking of renders for enemies and more as well (just a mention).  Lets hope all goes smoothly and she is able to come through for us.  I'm a member of the Emily fanclub as of today.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  16:21, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Shes my 2nd favorite Anet staff, the first being Kristen :P ~ Kurd [[Image:Kurdsig.png]]16:41, 27 February 2007 (EST)

Hm. You might want to consider taking the shots straight in front of the "character", not from above. In resized form the little mesmer girl look a little odd, at least on my screen. &mdash; Anja  17:05, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * On which image? They all look okay to me. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:07, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * All the female mesmer ones looks odd to me, with big shoulders and tiny feet. Wonder what the problem can be then.. &mdash; Anja  17:15, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * These shots are direct front shots, with a very slight downslope in order to prevent the overly exaggerated "shoulders-back" look that was disliked from the assassin shots. --Emily Diehl 17:22, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * Ah, then I guess it's just me who is used to the other way, with the shoulders back, since taking screenies :) This is better then. &mdash; Anja  17:24, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * They all look amazingly good. Thank you very much, Emily : ) Erasculio 18:21, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * The more I look at them the more it is bothering me, I'm unhappy to say. Now instead of having the camera down too low, it's too high. The best angle is from mid-waist, so that the body doesn't look disproportionate. The main issue with the Assassin shoulders, was actually that they are turned sideways, not that they were too far back. When one side of the shoulders is too far back you can't see the chest piece symmetrically. - B e X o R  09:09, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * As I've mentioned before, some of these poses are simply how the models stand in our game. Since you guys didn't want a standard attention pose, all of the relaxed poses are different for each model. Many models have one shoulder intentionally further back, which makes it impossible to have them standing evenly. If you would like me to take the shots in an attention pose, I can do that. I just can't keep re-capping shots with slightly tweaked camera angles. It takes a bit longer to get these renders than you'd think, and it seems very likely that everyone won't always like the same pose. I think that the main point here is whether the armor can be clearly seen, and I do think that the armor can be seen sufficiently in the renders. --Emily Diehl 14:38, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * The problem with the shoulders can be semi-solved by turning the camera a little to the side, which you did fine in these pictures. I don't think anyone really had raised a concern with the camera angle height though. It may have just been a misunderstanding. It's just unfortunate that the pictures sort of have a lollypop head effect. I know how painful taking screenshots can be. I spent hours buying, dying and taking pictures for gwiki. The first ones I took were from a very low angle until I found a spot I could take them where the camera was positioned so the character looked completely vertical. If you compare this with this and this - the best shot is the last where the character looks least distorted by the camera angle. Just a suggestion for the future. - B e X o R  14:46, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * Wow, I was gone for 2 weeks and the job you guys did is amazing. I'm with Bexor with this.  The mesmer shot are disproportionate.  The relaxe pose are good, we get a good idea of the armor but something is wrong and give a weird look to the armor.-- Aratak  14:52, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * For the records: I think the current images are good as they are. They allow us to see the armors very clearly, in a good angle, so I do not believe it's worth the trouble of changing them. Erasculio 16:59, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * How come I can't tell the difference between Male Mesmer Courtly and Noble upper armor? Is there any detail that I should be looking for?

Pose decision
To make this easier for me to know what is wanted, let's figure out what's wrong with the pose so I can try to get the renders lined up right. I took two standard Mesmer female poses. Let me know if there is anything you see that is wrong with them so I can figure out how to tweak the pose to be correct.


 * 1 uses the shoulders as the front, 2 uses the face. How about using the hips as the front like in this picture? The shoulder is back, but only a little. I think it's would be the best angle to view from, and they even got the vertical axis nicely. - B e X o R  16:37, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * So you'd like to see something like this then? --Emily Diehl 16:53, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * [[Image:MesmerTestPose3.jpg|100px]]


 * IMO, the renders in this page are almost in the same pose Bexor is suggesting - hip in the center, left shoulder slightly back. The only difference is in the vertical axis, and even it, again IMO, is too small to be noticed if one were not comparing the image linked above with the mesmer FoW armor currently in this site. My opinion would be to leave it as it is. Erasculio 16:59, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * I like the Pose3. I agree that the pose is almost the same as the one featured on the page presently, but it seems to be taken from a slightly lower angle.  I think that that small difference in angle is what makes the originally featured pose seem "disproportional" (as Bexor indicated). -Spot 17:14, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * [[Image:Mesmer Ascalon armor f.jpg|115px]][[Image:MesmerTestPose3.jpg|100px]] - the current renders make the character look stunted and have the big head-tiny feet effect. But like Erasculio said, it's not a huge difference - though I did notice it without having to compare images, I just show these images so that other people can see what I'm seeing. And BTW, I'm not the one who originally pointed this out! I was agreeing with someone else's comment! I was just bothering me because over the past few hours I've made every single Mesmer art article here and I've had to look at the pictures heaps. The new pose (3) is great, and it would be nice to see that instead of the current ones, but it's up to you Emily whether you want to prioritise redoing them now or later or at all. I just would like to make sure that the top down angle doesn't get used on any further pictures. If I had taken those pictures and put them on gwiki, someone would have complained - I've had to redo images there too because of little things like that. I think everyone is stepping on eggshells here because we don't want to scare Emily away. :P It was just my opinion, and if Emily decides she doesn't want to do it, there's nothing I can do about that, and I'll live with it. - B e X o R  17:42, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * It's not really a big issue ;) I just posted those examples so I knew for sure how people wanted them before I went in and fixed the images. Now that I know that I should shoot the pictures from the hips, it will be much easier to get the shots right on the first try. I can re-take the renders again easily. I've just been busy with other things today, so I haven't had the time to get the current shots replaced. --Emily Diehl 17:57, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * There's no need to hurry! Don't worry, soon enough you'll be good and ready to take your first wiki-vacation. After all the articles I made today I'm just about ready for another. :P - B e X o R  18:16, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * I'm sorry if I sounded more combative than what I meant - my comment was just to say that I don't think it's a big deal, nothing more : ) I would like to make a suggestion, though - Bexor, since you have very good eyes for that kind of thing (now that I have read your description, I see your point), do you think you could do the same (post a screenshot of what you think is the best pose) for some of the other professions? I mean, I think they will be slightly different, since different professions often have different poses... I have the feeling that Emily has not done all the renders yet, so I believe it would be better if someone could point the best pose now, so she may do the next renders in them (sorry if I'm sounding lazy for not offering to do that myself - I just don't have that kind of artistic view, I think...) Erasculio 18:31, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * I can do that and put it on each of the profession's talk pages. - B e X o R  18:32, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Thank you. I know that's very timing consuming, so I really appreciate your effort : ) Erasculio 18:38, 28 February 2007 (EST)

(reset indent) Okay, I did a real quick job on this cause I haven't slept in a couple of days so I'm lazy. Core professions here, non core professions here. Sorry that they're all different sizes - I just accepted whatever the PvP creation randomly gave me. :P The Dervish male looks like it was a little bit top down, but it might just be his posture. - B e X o R  19:39, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Looks very good to me. The only ones I would suggest changing are the male Necromancer (he has his back curved, so it's harder to see parts of some armors, especially the "wings" on the Sunspear one), just by rotating horizontally a bit the camera so we would see more of his left side (making the chest to be in the center instead of the hips, a bit like: this) and maybe the female Dervish, just to rotate slightly so we would see more of her right side (her skirt is not symetrical, unlike the male version). Erasculio 20:42, 28 February 2007 (EST)


 * Wow, this is great! I'm still catching up on what's going to be different on this wiki, and let me tell you, I am pleased as punch that there will be these nicely posed renders for armor! I am endlessly appreciative of the image work that Bexor and others did at guildwiki, but as Bexor knows I was not a fan of the /attention pose for armor galleries. It just didn't look right, and didn't show off the armor to its fullest. These renders will be a terrific feature of this wiki. HarshLanguage 17:27, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * The female mesmer renders have been updated, with the males soon to follow. I followed the pose in the provided image, so hopefully there are no issues :) --Emily Diehl 21:01, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * It's the best looking page in the wiki! :D It make me want to go and buy new armour for my mesmer. --Aspectacle 22:11, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Known render issues
I'll list some of the known issues of the renders here so I know what to replace when I can. --Emily Diehl 16:45, 27 February 2007 (EST)
 * The stockings are missing on the female Obsidian, Ascended Canthan, and Primeval sets.
 * The high mesh gloves are missing on the Ascended Enchanters, Ascended Canthan, Ascended Luxon, and Primeval sets.

PvP Reward?
What the heck is PvP Reward armor? -- Helena 08:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's armor rewared for ATS tournament points I think. It was added in the last update. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]]  (contribs)  08:42, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool! Hope someone gets it soon so we can get pics ;D -- Helena 09:33, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed that section since Tyrian armor is already marked as being equivalent to Stylish. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 15:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you go to PvP reward it shows the names and links to the pages anyway. Might be helpful to have a note in the decriptions for each of those armor types that it can also be unlocked for PvP characters by talking to Tolkanu. I don't know what changes would need to be made to the infobox though. Maybe it would say pvp = Krytan (Stylish)? Or maybe we need a line for pvpreward = y? - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 00:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Eye of the North Armor
I was sorta misled when I saw these renders from Eye of the North. I later realized these were the Dyed Red versions. Are we going to see default colored renders? Overrandom 06:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems this bright red is the default color for EotN armor, as this was what Emily got when rendering. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 10:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Could have been coincidence, kind of like how the other mesmer armor is dyed green, warrior is yellow, dervish is lightish blue, etc.; but i doubt that--Raph [[Image:User_ Raph_ Sig.png|19px]] 20:49, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * All armor comes dyed gray in game, but the "default" color for Eye of the North armors in Emily's rendering engine is red. So we are seeing the default colored renders. - [[Image:User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG]] HeWhoIsPale 20:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * All armor has a base colour, which is usually the old "default" color. If you equip armor for the first time, sometimes the old colour will flash at you before it's covered up by the gray. This base colour affects final dye outcomes in varying degrees. For instance some mesmer armor is still quite green when it is dyed gray. - B e X  [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif|iawtc]] 07:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the point was, as I was also wandering, why we have the default colours on all armor except EotN, which is red. Doesn't matter to me which colour it is (although I prefer the old "default" or gray), as long as we have the same on all armors... - [[Image:User-Helena-sig.png|talk]] helena  15:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * We have default colors on all armor. They just went inconsistent and did all EotN armor bright red as their default, instead of going with the old default. That's my theory at least :) And it seems that the render program Emily uses always gives her the default they have specified (red for EotN), and it takes alot of time, if at all possible, to render them in any other color. - anja  [[Image:User Anja Astor sig icon.png|talk]] 15:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

is there more than only one lost set for warriors?
leaving through old screen shots is fun...additionally, that looks a bit like female elite luxon armor. And the character itself doesn't have a familiar Mesmer face to me. &mdash;Zerpha The Improver 19:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They should add that set. :( Even if it's retextured! - B ex [[Image:User BeXoR sig.gif]] 00:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They should've added that hair. So few good long-hair options for females of any profession... Arshay Duskbrow 10:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)