Feedback talk:User/Dark Morphon/Horns of the Ox & Palm Strike

Horns wasnt nerfed because of palm strike... -Talamare-  feedback  10:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It wasn't, but it's safe to rebuff it now that they aren't around anymore. Dark Morphon 13:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Say what? [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Costs you your elite slot and is only really effective when you keep hitting. I think that's enough downsides. Dark Morphon 13:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Grarg, getting people in a kd-lock with horns is so very strong. :< I guess it's not a biggie anymore that vod and shadow prison are gone and palm strike is kinda weakish.  Nectarines / / 13:38 26 September 2009(UTC)
 * Hmm, lots of conditionals, I don't really see that becoming a problem. Dark Morphon 14:14, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll fix that for you *re-becoming. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  04:21, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * horns is still heavily used at +10 damage, I dont think it needs to be buffed back to +30, even if you said it needed a buff, you should at least suggest +20 -Talamare-   feedback  11:22, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it should if I nerf falling lotus. Dark Morphon 13:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You would have to make falling lotus give -5 for it to equal the same amount of power increase... and then falling lotus is what becomes underpowered and this overpowered... +30 is just too much man -Talamare-   feedback  13:42, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * /shrug, compare to Trampling Ox. This has more damage, true, but it also has 4 more recharge. Enough to balance it out. Dark Morphon 16:07, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * and different conditionals, trampling ox conditional actually requires you to do something (Ie spend another skill slot and potentially spend time on your combo, or require to bring specific skills)... -Talamare-   feedback  16:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Falling Lotus isn't that powerful anyway... Talamare, Trampling Ox has more +damage, a different condition and less recharge. This has lower +damage, an uncontrollable condition and more recharge. Complaining about either Ox skill at this point is kind of silly, I think. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  16:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Im comparing to his changed version, which would be horns has the higher damage... Im not complaining about either, I discussing his change... The whole point of the feedback pages is to suggest changes and discuss them... why do you think its silly -Talamare-   feedback  17:07, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Complaining about the Ox skills is silly because they're not that great. I wasn't aware you were speaking of the suggested version, though. So my other comments are null. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  22:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheap kd and domage, looks great to me. :o  Nectarines / / 23:00 27 September 2009(UTC)
 * Palm strike sins had uber strong spike chain because of them too. :3  Nectarines / / 23:01 27 September 2009(UTC)

(Reset crazy huge indent) But that's more because Palm Strike had crazy stupid recharge, Cripple duration and damage. Those have all be addressed. I like how it's still a decent combo, but it's not a problem anymore. Yes, it knocks you down. Deal with it. Bathory  talk  23:11, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Most sin chains (if not all of them) will include either an ox attack or this -Talamare-   feedback  23:13, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, knocking people down is a good idea for an assassin. Therefore, they were made with skills to do this in their profession. What's the problem? [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  23:25, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you going in circles on purpose? -Talamare-   feedback  23:27, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's hard to not go in circles when there is no problem. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  23:32, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is hes suggesting to make horns into a +30 -Talamare-   feedback  23:46, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * And there's not a problem with it now that would make it being weak a problem, is there? >.< [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  23:50, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you reword that? I wasnt able to understand it -Talamare-   feedback  23:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. There is no problem with either Ox skill. They don't need to be changed. [[Image:User Bathory Spirit to Flesh.jpg|18px]] Bathory   talk  23:56, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh... Then we saying/thinking the same thing from the start... -Talamare-   feedback  23:59, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ox is a good skill, but only for now. I'm a bit wary about buffing it, tbh. It's strong enough and sees play enough as it is.
 * PS, on the other hand... up the recharge a bit more, it's still free damage. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  18:43, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * My problem with the current Ox is that it's only really useful in combo's that utilise a lot of other KDs and off-hand skippers. Since I'm nerfing these combo's, I think it's safe to buff it back a little again. Concerning PS, I don't know. There are a lot of other skills that are practically free damage at even lower recharges that don't see use. I think that's not much of an issue in this case. Dark Morphon 16:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think you understand the power of KD's. On a warrior, a knockdown is worth about 100 damage, or a deepwound, though this may fluctuate with the given situation and build. On an assassin, the value is about the same, because even though you get only 2 seconds worth, you use it to chain other attacks and powerful duals.
 * Tbh, Ox would be a decent skill even if it did no +damage. Right now I would consider it okay, but only because it needs another attack or two to connect. Keep in mind that this is a KD skill with an energy cost, and no exhaustion. -- NUKLEAR  [[Image:User NuclearVII signature 3.jpg|19x19px]] IIV  17:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, decreased the +dmg a bit. Comparing it to Trampling Ox, this should be about fair. Dark Morphon 11:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)