ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Spawning Power & Spirit Mechanics

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[edit] A. Von Rin's Issue 18:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Issue: SP belongs to the worst Primary Attributes in GW. It has (nearly) no positive effect on builds with other Ritualist lines or second classes like other PAs and with the nerfs of the Spirits the bonus is not good enough for the primary profession like Divine Favor for example.
  • Possible Solutions: The idea is to give the Ritualist instead a health boost for every rank in SP by 3 (for example @ SP of 12 = 36 health), whenever a creature within earshot dies and a little energy boost by 1 for each rank in Spawning Power whenever a Spirit within earshot dies.

Because Spirits would be killed faster, their recast time should be reduced (drastically?) as well as their costs to buff Communing in total. They should not cost more than 15 energy as a maximum and should not have more than 3 seconds of activation time at all. Spirits that now cost 25 energy (or have a longer activation time) should be reduced to 15 energy (and/or 3 seconds of activation time) and instead have 10%-25% of health sacrifice - depending on the other buffs - to balance the buff of Communing.

Discussion

[edit] NoXiFy's 16:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Issue: ONLY profession without reliable energy managment that needs it for high-cost skills (Excluding warriors because they are more adrenaline based, and mesmers because they have several commonly used energy management skills in the inspiration category.)
  • Possible Solutions: For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) have 4% more Health, and weapon Spells you cast last 2% longer. For each point in Spawning Power you recieve 6% of the original energy cost of any spirit rituals or animations. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power.

I think that by doing this, your allowing ritualists to have a bigger role than... expelers in heroes ascent. This would also allow more thought when choosing the amount of points in attributes because currently, many run 12 Channeling, 12 Communing, 3 Spawning Power. With the adding of an energy gain... we may see huge changes and more ritualist use in PvP besides scrubway.

Thanks for reading Izzy and others, feel free to comment. (Please not that in ANY suggessions I put out that they are soley based on the 'Heroes Ascent' portion of the game, unless otherwise noted. This is due to the fact that although very skilled in PvP... I've never partook in a GvG :(.) --'ÑöẊĭƑýtalk 22:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Edit: The template guides were removed... so I didn't know hot to make my own discussion page. Therefore theres a seperate section on the first persons sugesstion page. --'ÑöẊĭƑýtalk 22:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC) Discussion

Just to add to this, I think the biggest issue is a lack of synergy between spawning power and other skills in general. Every other prof out there has a primary that can provide a large benefit to a sizable portion of their secondary prof's skills. The ritualist is the only exception, with the crappiest primary by far. It has NO bonus for any secondary profession you'd want to combine it with. I agree that it needs a change for the better, but would like to see one that has more synergy with other professions. Such as adding something like... For every point of spawning power, all lightning damage you do is increased by 2% (making Rt/Ele and melee rits with lightning weapons viable choices), and you regain 2% of your spells' energy cost. (generally making Rt/Spellcaster a more viable choice)

Right now, the only reason you'd really have to have a rit primary is for running trick pony builds, like the maligned spirit spammer, or the questionable spirit's strength sin. Classes with built-in energy management can take over just about every other role the rit plays with the same efficiency, and more flexibility. I think if the rit became more diversification-friendly, we'd also see more rits running "non-gimmicky" builds... because then those would simply become more viable for a rit. The only real bonus from spawning is spirit health. Any wonder we see all these spirit spammers? The only rit skills used are the ones that are powerful enough to stand on their own, (ie perhaps a little overpowered, such as splinter weapon, ancestor's rage... but rits have to rely on these for lack of a powerful passive bonus from their primary. Note that neither SW or AR receive a bonus from the primary.) More (and more useful) bonuses for spawning power pls. MrGrendel 20:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

To clarify this, I agree with the problem diagnosis of above poster; but the proposed fixes to spawning power should not imo include more ritualist-only bonuses. I think they should be useful in a broader array of skills and skill types. MrGrendel 21:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fro's Issue 13:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, they are just a weak concept for a dynamic game. Especially in one which favors disruption and subversion. Their effects are passive and party-wide. There have rarely ever been any skills which share these traits that have 'not' been problematic over the years. Aegis has always been somewhat questionable. Ward Against Melee also. (Not that these skills are currently broken, they just heavily affect the game when other changes potentially break them. The GoLE buff for example).

User:Fro/Potential fix


[edit] Krothal's Issue

I have an issue with spells/skills that target ally spirit, since there isn't an easy way to target them (same like with minions). I would either introduce a party panel addition (like that with pet controls) for spirits and summoned creatures (benefit of easiness to control, curse of having to cover your interface if you have 10 minions, let's say). If this is unachievable for various reasons, maybe change all these skills/spells to target closest spirit(s), depending on each individual case? For example: Spirit Transfer: Spell. The Spirit nearest you loses 5...41...50 Health. Target ally is healed for 5 for each point of Health lost. Spirit to Flesh Spell. Target touched allied Spirit (closest allied spirit) is destroyed. All nearby allies are healed for 30...198...240. This will improve ritualist positioning in order to target the proper spirit you would like to use and will also power a bit all these spirit skills/spells/signets that are almost never used because of this simple selection issue.Krothal 15:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

For skills that target spirits only (unless they say "touched spirit"), if you don't target a spirit on cast, the game automatically "targets" the closest spirit to you. Your issue never really existed. 76.89.81.150 15:46, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Impaled's Issue -- 23 July 2008

Issue
Very small, narrow effect, and even then only for certain rit/necro skills!
Suggestion
Add: "For each point in Spawning Power, you have a 1% chance to halve casting and recharge time for all spells while carrying ashes." Could possibly also affect rituals.
This won't fix spirits by itself I'll admit, but it would compensate for not being able to use a weapon when you have ashes. The buff would also make spawning power more useful for all caster ritualists, especially cross-attribute builds, without being overpowered. The chance could probably be buffed to like 1.5% without much trouble.

And!

Issue
Many defensive spirits cost too much when it comes to energy/casting time when they die so fast.
Suggestion
Keep spirit energy costs at (preferably) 15 or below, reduce casting times to 1-3 seconds and lower recharges quite a bit, but limit the effect to earshot range! In some cases health sacrifice could work as extra non-energy cost, like for spirit light or all those necro skills.
For example, Shelter could be turned into something like: "Binding Ritual. Create a level 1...7...8 Spirit. Non-Spirit allies within earshot cannot lose more than 10% maximum Health from a single attack. When this Spirit prevents damage, it loses 75...51...45 Health. This Spirit lasts 5...13...15 seconds." 15e / 2c / 20r
Lowering all of those numbers would make spirits much more active and ward-like, giving earshot-wide mitigation but with the drawback of being easily killable. If this works out it could even bring communing back to life...

[edit] FunnyUsername's Issue --16:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Issue
The main issue i see with Spawning Power comes from the high casting time of all the Binding Rituals. Most of the skills have deep synergies with spirits, so bringing spirits is a must if u want to be effective. Running mainly Restoration Magic builds with my ritualist, i've found this 2 main issues:
  • The minimun casting time of most spirit is 3 seconds, and that leaves a wide enough window for the oposite team to perform a spike in one of your team mates (or you), that forces to cancel the ritual to try to save him, wich results on the loss of the energy needed for the ritual (and if it was Recuperation...), and if there are no spirits around, skills that allow to stop spikes are less usefull or directly useless (Spirit Transfer).
  • Interrupters are widely present in most pvp apects, and using 3 to 5 second casting skills is just like puting a giant message over your head that says "Interrupts here please". And since most binding rituals have large recharges, thats just unfair.
Suggestion
My sugestion is to reduce that binding rituals large casting times. Simply by replacing the current 4% health per attribute level effect for a 3% reduced casting time for binding rituals per attribute level. Since spirits will then have less health, i dont think this will be too a powerfull effect, maybe in the offensive spirit spamming builds this may seems to be overpowered, but the health penalty spirits will recive, forces players to make even a more tactical use of them.

[edit] Yullive's Issue 02:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Issue
SP supports weaponspells and spirits (spirits not strong enough). But SP does not support item spells.
Idea
Spirits and weapon spells are characteristical for ritualists. Item spells too. Why dont support them with the main attribute?
Suggestion
If you hold an item spell you gain 1 stacking armor point for every 2 points in Spawning Power.
or
If you hold an item spell you gain 1 stacking base damage reduction for every 3 points in Spawning Power.

Discussion


[edit] Falconeye's Issue -- 12:51, 1 September 2008

  • Issue

Same as above.

  • Suggestion

-=Spawning Power=- For each rank of Spawning Power you have the following;

Summons (Binding Rituals, Animated Undead, Vanguard Assassin Support & Asuran Summons)
Creatures you create will:
1) Lasts 4% longer.
3) Have 4% increased Health.
2) Have 4% chance to Block.
Chakras (Weapon spells & Armor spells)
Chakras you cast will:
1) Lasts 2% longer.
2) Receive 1 additional weapon use at rank 3 and above, 2 additional use at rank 8, and 3 additional use at rank 13.
Ashes (Item spells)
Ashes you hold will:
1) Increased Health by 5 and Energy by 1 while holding.
2) Damage Reduction 1 per 3 points.

[edit] ShadowFog's Issue--ShadowFog 23:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Issue
  • Spawing Power only gives minimal health which extend the use of all triggering spirits(thoses that loses health due to activation), especially the ones in Communing, by one trigger and non-significant time extension to weapon spells which ranges from the shortest one(assuming a 12 attribute), Xinrae's Weapon extension is 1.92, to a max of (assuming stats are 12) a Brutal Weapon of 9.36 which is the only weapon that last 39 seconds while others have a overall duration of 8-15, the extension time of 15 is 3.6=>4 seconds almost an overall of 2 seconds extension for all weapons at a expense of 12 attribute for Spawing Power. Items are not affected. There's no energy management for the Ritualist thus not making any difference if another profession does a spirit only that the Ritualist could have increased its use by one more trigger.
  • Suggestion
  • The majority of the Spirits with their functions can already die in 3-5 seconds and faster if under attack while their recharge(30-45) are ignore by the Development Team making a sedentary ritualist. Increase the level of the spirit so this issue can be ignore.
  • If not, divide what spirits and minions gain in health thus making spirits percentage gained in health increase. Its a possibility but I doubt the Development Team will do it since I suspect a change of codes to Guild Wars must be done, maybe its "too much work" for them.
  • Make Items Spell last as long as the percentage of Weapon Spells due to Spawing Power, since its already insignificant, make different percentage for each.
  • Add:"For every 3 points of Spawning Power, you gain 1 Energy whenever you create a Spirit." You will gain a small amount of energy back to help you with summoning or other spells making the profession easily manageable when summoning spirits. Can be used in conjunction with other energy gaining skills.

[edit] Spawning Power is too niche

Issue
Spawing Power only affects spirits and has a poor effect even then. Since the last buff, it also affects Weapon Spells, but it's not a big enough change to make pure rits better than N/Rts (see SWay) except for when they use SP skills.
Suggestion
Make SP a bit more useful, generally. My suggestion is:
For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) have 5% more Health, and weapon and item Spells and Rituals you cast activation 1% faster and last 2% longer. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power.
This would make Binding Rituals less interruptable and make them last longer, so that health-loss spirits aren't the only ones benefitted by a high SP.
I would also suggest converting one or two non-ritualist skills (e.g. the Conjures, IW et.c.) into weapon or item spells or rituals so that rits have some more secondary options.
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