ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Miscellaneous/"Victory is Ours!"

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ViO

→ moved from User talk:Isaiah Cartwright

Why? I really don't understand why you implemented such a feature? It just promotes sin-split. The only advantages I see are:

• Less eurospike (+1)
• Balanced has a better chance vs eurospike (+1)

So why? Answer; rlly need. --Readem 23:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Because new is "usually" good. And how are you to know otherwise without trying? Done25

By taking advantage of brain cells. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 02:11, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

*rimshot* --71.229.204.25 02:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

No. "New" is usually bad, especially in GW's case. --Readem 02:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Do I even dare ask what Eurospike is? Nicky 07:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Ask and ye shall receive. Keep in mind that was back with free ZB, 1/4 cast SoA, not-horribad LoD, broken SP, and (it feels odd to say it still) 33% Storm Djinn's. -- Armond Warblade 07:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and Aegis was compass-wide back then, thus its use on a flagger. -- Armond Warblade 07:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Blinding Surge was 5 energy and Gale lasted 3 seconds. That's why the Mesmer has those. --TimeToGetIntense 08:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Mantra of Recovery was 50%... etc. -- Armond Warblade 09:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Weren't skills balanced around it being at 50% back when it was popular? Aren't they still at that balance with it at 50% even though it isn't at that anymore? ~ Sabastian 09:11, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

To a point. A few were changed, and they were the major ones, but good mesmers always ran esurge. -- Armond Warblade 09:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Power Block* — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 22:11, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

My belly be thanking thee. Is it called eurospike because it was used mostly by Europeans? Nicky 11:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Invented by them, yeah. But as JR said, had it been invented by Americans, it would have been called "balanced". Dunno what we'd have called it if it had been invented by Koreans; probably just file it all under Korean-way, which wins faces... (Yes, my HA groups have a tendency to just give up when we run into Koreans because it's just that powerful. Nerf Korean-way plzkthx.) -- Armond Warblade 18:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

If koreans made it it would be called splitgay... User 24.141.45.72 20:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Armond, that was the point I was trying to make. :p Nicky Silverstar 22:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Eurospike is a build that has several layers of gay shit (also known as passive defense). This includes a wide variety of wards, constant aegis-chaining, blind, water snares, partygons, and more. They gain kills via spiking, as a vast majority of today's Warriors cannot pressure targets whatsoever. Eurospike commonly features the following builds:

• Esurge Mesmer (sometimes HEV; they like the AoE/edenial or something)
• Water Snares with Arage
• Dslash (swords are cool?)
• Dual Mesmer
• Shock-training

Now, I am not saying eurospike doesn't take skill to play; it does. It is just not balanced in any way, shape, or form. Currently, at least 4-5 euro guilds control the top 10 using eurospike. --Readem 23:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Readem, Eurospike the build linked above. You just listed some crap that people run in balanced. That build can pressure or spike depending on skill level/preference/situation. What exactly do you consider a balanced build if you try to pidgeonhole everything that people run as "Eurospike"? I'm guessing you're actually trolling. --TimeToGetIntense 23:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, eurospike comes and goes in many variations. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw a eurospike with some of the builds he mentioned swapped in and out of the one I linked you to. -- Armond Warblade 00:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

@ Readem: What you call Eurospike, i call Balanced and - as you mentioned - needs skill to be effective. It got more difficult to play like this with the introduction of ViO that favors Split-Builds. So i don't get why this should be a problem, but your right with the problem about Sinsplit which sucks... The effect is still too strong together with the buff of the npc. -.- A. von Rin 00:59, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I am tired of people being bad, and knowing nothing about GvG :/. Time, no sane American guild runs esurge. Nor dual mesmer. Nor do they think dslash is good. There are several builds a guild can run (vZ Condition Pressure/vD Balanced/rawrspike/DF Balanced/iQ VoD/WM Esurge Gale Jail/Evil with their Epic Movement/HaND Hexes/Me Sinsplit/cow Epic Vent/TV Rspike/EW Caster-spike/dR Split/ttgr SF-spike). Those are just a few. This is eurospike however. --Readem 03:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, rest assured, I am trying to improve myself (that's why I asked the question). So don't give up on me yet please. Nicky Silverstar 07:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

When the enemy team starts collapsing D-slashes are better than Evis warriors. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:25, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Dslash has higher DPS. Shock Axe is more versatile. --Readem 22:46, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

When you don't need that versatility (like when they're collapsing), Dslash is better. -- Armond Warblade 23:18, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

ViO is killing mATs. Now we have 4 Sinsplit goldcapes in a row... 83.171.170.185 00:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Who cares? GW mATS are dead in April. --Readem 07:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

How? User 24.141.45.72 02:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

DSLash is horrible. If it is blocked or misses, you have to charge it fully again, which totally defeats the purpose of the FGJ+DSlash combo and makes it incredibly useless when FGJ isn't up. And why do you need more DPS for a collapsing team? What you need is snares. The most reliable way to kill shit is focus on shutdown and use auto-attack DPS for damage. @Readem, eurospike had Shadow Prison Warriors + Mesmers with Spain+Wastrels. It's not just whatever Euros run now or whatever you're trying to say. --TimeToGetIntense 05:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

You are wrong (about everything). Dslash doesn't use FGJ usually :/ (only the scrub PvE version). The only real flaw Dslash has, is it requires snares (usually). Also, eurospike is exactly as I mentioned. Either learn something about GW, or stop posting Time. You don't know shit about PvP. Stick to AB and RA pls. rlly need. --Readem 06:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

You're the only one claiming Eurospike is everything people run in balanced. On DSLash you can(should) run Bull's Strike. That's enough snare for a Warrior if you have enough snares in your build. You can either run S&MSLash or FGJ. Whichever one is better, it doesn't matter because you'll just get blocked or blinded and not be able to take advantage of the adrenaline boost on DSlash itself. --TimeToGetIntense 08:18, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

What on earth are talking about? Balanced doesn't include esurge. Balanced doesn't need an SoR partygon. Balanced doesn't run Trident/Arage. Unless going against telespike, or rawrspike, blind really shouldn't be a problem. So what you are basically saying is, bad warriors who unload on pre-protted targets makes dslash bad? lol, wow. --Readem 08:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Balanced needs whatever people think they need. Good elementalists blind you in the middle of DSLash, People run Aegis, Wards, etc... so everyone blocks. --TimeToGetIntense 08:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Except, eurospike teams have their mesmers perm 40/40 for shatter on rec. If your wars cannot find targets outside wards, then gg. Not my problem. Just uninstall now. The eurospike play-style is very different from say, vD balanced (which is strong at both stand and on a split), and that is something you simply cannot deny. --Readem 09:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I lol'd on "new is usually good." Ok let's make a "new" skill that kills anything you use it on. It'll get banned two hours after it starts being used. Oops, Signet of Ghostly Might.

Seriously though, ViO needed to be added. It's not perfect, but (I assume) izzy is trying to find the balance between fighting at the stand and ganking. All he needs to do is take shadow stepping out of the game and balance ritualists, and all will be well. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 10:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Tbh there was no much need for ViO as long as you could get advantage from attacking NPCs in the end. It just creates a situation where one with more NPCs wins at VoD...and if one side has 2 teleporting npc-instakilling characters it's kinda retarded to say that it's a balanced game. Currently in assassinsplit you can even kamikaze NPCs, anyway you'll win because your eles "nukes" have +25%+10% damage increase which is huge.

Removing ViO would be best solution and rather buffing NPCs and their AI than giving players some abuseable advantage. 137.163.16.66 10:18, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm probably one of the few oddballs that also likes the idea of ViO. I don't like ViO in it's current form but on the guru forums and elsewhere, people have been wanting ViO bonus to be in relation to how many NPCs are left with both teams getting the bonus if they have npcs left. Currently, I'd like to drop the VoD shout and keep ViO if it gets modified as previously mentioned. The damage cap should be relatively low and perhaps you don't start losing ViO increase damage till you lose more than a couple of NPCs. Flag stand play won't be as trivialized when compared to NPCs but there would still be an incentive to split and splitting remains a viable strategy for winning. At the same time, it wouldn't force teams to split and try to gank as well but it does still throw some importance in protecting your base NPCs. I realize most top 100 guilds hate ViO and to a lesser degree VoD so take whatever I say with a grain of salt as their level of play is far different from those under that mark. PlacidBlueAlien 09:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Why not just take out VoD and ViO completely? The NPCs + GLord come out and fight anyway. Shit hits the fan. If you have NPC advantage you still win. Also delete Splinter Weapon. --TimeToGetIntense 13:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with removing ViO in particular I fear is that people will simply find a way to farm NPCs at VoD leading to blockway webs despite whatever nerfs are done to cancel casting for aegis. Maybe they'll bring another paragon or a few more copies of ward along instead of aegis for passive defense. I wouldn't mind removing both to see how the latest npc spacing has changed things though but in the monthlies before VoD/ViO, it was always about farming NPCs near the end (LoD era etc.) Certainly, it's easy enough to just say, "Well then, fix NPC AI lololol" but reality isn't as kind and a low capped ViO will probably be what Anet was trying to accomplish in a roundabout fashion. And no, my guild doesn't run paraway or sinsplit. PlacidBlueAlien 16:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Only nerfing the effect of ViO wouldn't be any useful/pleasant either, you'll realize why if you get idea of "why there is VoD?". Imo remove ViO or make it NPC-only feature so that players get the advantage through them and also get back the old VoD (-25%hp) to prevent stalemates or games based on spiking one to 60DP. 91.152.187.29 20:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you misunderstood or I am misunderstanding you but I do not recommend removing VoD as in the NPCs are to walk out but removing the skill "Victory or Death" as opposed to removing the skill "Victory is Ours." Again, you seem to be of the camp that likes the skill Victory or Death with npc damage ramping up like crazy which I think isn't such a great idea. PlacidBlueAlien 06:28, 29 February 2008 (UTC)