Guild Wars Wiki talk:Projects/Unanswered questions/LoreQ
Huge bones[edit]
Q: How come they are bigger than Glint, the oldest dragon and the first creature ever in Tyria?
As an addendum to this question, if the gods created the world of Tyria, but the dragons are older than the gods, who created them, and how did they get to Tyria?
- Glint was the first creature placed on the continent of Tyria by the gods to oversee the new world. (from Glint article) So it is possible for creatures/dragons to be older than glint, if they were not created by the gods (scriptures may be false/incorrect/incomplete).
- And "The gods" --> it doesn't have to be our gods, they had predecessors (like: Abbadon --> Kormir). :p trying to help fix the puzzle --Ellisia
21:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
- According to the Edge of Destiny, Glint was the champion of Kralkatorrik, Created to protect her master Rumian 10:20, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Q: Are they related to the Creature in Drakkar Lake?
- Yes, the creature in Drakkar Lake is Jormag the Elder Dragon. This is confirmed on the Official Guild Wars 2 wiki. Foozlesprite 20:30, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
(Reset indent) Congratulations! You both commented on ancient discussions that predate the new 'correct' information! Back when these comments were made 1) Edge of Destiny wasn't out so we only knew what Ghostly Hero and Forgotten Gatekeeper told us about Glint and 2) it was 99% "confirmed" that the creature was Jormag (and widely believed proven at the time) but it was "clarified" that it was merely Jormag's champion. Konig/talk 16:26, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Wizard's Tower[edit]
Judging from the blurb of Wanted: Justiciar Marron, the answer seems to be magical artifacts and/or tomes. Amitiel 05:13, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
- There's more to it though. While those could easily (and expectedly) be in the tower; what are said artifacts and tomes? What's the origin of the tower? -- Konig/talk 05:43, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Kaineng Center Glowing Chest[edit]
Gayle said once that's Xunlai Central. Mith
Talk 16:15, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Other info to be added[edit]
There are some mysteries of GW lore that haven't been solved but are not on this list. Such things include the origins and motives of Kanaxai, what was the race that mined the Aurios Mines, Who were the seekers and where was the new home they were going to, Why are Ascalonion ruins found in the Poisoned outcrops, Why are the Harpies and Hecket leaving their homeland of Dazalana, Why is a statue with markings found in the Hall of judgment also found in Doomlore shrine in the Charr Homelands, What was the cause of the Scarab Plauge, What happened to the Norn who went into the bottomless pit, Who were the other groups of people to venture into the Crystal Desert After Turai Ossa did, What is the Origin of the Temple the Dredge use in the Echovald forest, what is the purpose of the 4 pedestals outside Destiny's Gorge. SajuukKhar 12:37, 15 Feburary 2011
- luxons mined audio, what is in question is the origins of the artifacts. And we know through deduction who the 2 groups are - seeker, and ascalonians. I'll add these things when I get access to a computer and not on a cell...-- Konig/talk 19:23, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
- Added some I felt were relevant (didn't add the bottomless pit in that wording since it seems obvious that when someone jumps down a cliff - they die). I don't know what "4 pedestals outside Destiny's Gorge" are being referenced so I didn't add that. 20:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
- As a side note I also remembered that there was a a alter that used the same skin as the searing alter in the desolation, they never did explain the purpose of the statue of glint, there is a lone cut down tree in dry top that seems out of place(but it was probably cut down to build the nearby buildings imo), was there really a Mursaat city on the Ullen river if not what was causing the darkness, and the origin and meaning behind the druid/magumma stones that depict a dragon like being on them. SajuukKhar 2:40, 18 February 2011
- I split the discussion (and your final post) between the statues and the info-to-be-added so we don't have to wad through a wall of text. I'm going to re-organize the list of questions, and add some that you mentioned (not going to bother with the cut down tree). -- Konig/talk 20:36, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
- You will be happy to know that after these two things I list I'm all out of things I can remember. 1. The Slow Totem in dunes of Despair: who made it, and is its location between a semi circle group of pillar give it any sort of significance. and 2. Teleporters in the Scar: there's a set of unused teleporters in the scar that dont work and lead into a pit what was the purpose of this pit and why are these teleporters not functional. the only thing else I can think of is really obvious Gw2 material like who built the dungeons and whats the origins of the Tarnished coast ruins or whats the deal with the dead Seer. SajuukKhar 17:27, 18 February 2011
- I split the discussion (and your final post) between the statues and the info-to-be-added so we don't have to wad through a wall of text. I'm going to re-organize the list of questions, and add some that you mentioned (not going to bother with the cut down tree). -- Konig/talk 20:36, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
- As a side note I also remembered that there was a a alter that used the same skin as the searing alter in the desolation, they never did explain the purpose of the statue of glint, there is a lone cut down tree in dry top that seems out of place(but it was probably cut down to build the nearby buildings imo), was there really a Mursaat city on the Ullen river if not what was causing the darkness, and the origin and meaning behind the druid/magumma stones that depict a dragon like being on them. SajuukKhar 2:40, 18 February 2011
- Added some I felt were relevant (didn't add the bottomless pit in that wording since it seems obvious that when someone jumps down a cliff - they die). I don't know what "4 pedestals outside Destiny's Gorge" are being referenced so I didn't add that. 20:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
- Looking at this list I'm wondering why is the staircase in the battledepths on here. if were going to put that we might as well ask does the blocked off sections in every dungeon have a point. All the dungeons have blocked off areas and staircases leading to dead ends, its due to arena net reusing the same basic maps over and over, I dont see why any of these should be on here let alone only the battledepths one. SajuukKhar 12:47, 23 February 2011
- I only just didn't remove it because I didn't know which section it talked about. I suppose this was added due to the stairs leading into the wall bit (e.g., poorly done blocking off). I think the Battledepths uses a map used in Darkrime Delves. In fact, comparing the level 2 DD map to the Battledepths map, they do. -- Konig/talk 20:06, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Crystal Desert statues[edit]
Looking back at the timeline I think it answers the reason behind the Ascalon ruins in the Poisoned Outcrops. According to lore King Doric ruled a untied kingdom of Ascalon and what would be Orr. We know the Ascalonions went back into the desert as evidenced by the giant statue heads also being found in the Catacombs it could be the Ascalonian ruins in the Poisoned outcrops were made as a sort of southern boundary maker of the then Ascalon/Orr kingdom. It makes some scene that if you owned Ascalon and Orr you would at least claim the vast desert that sits between them. As another note who made the Slow totem in Dunes of Despair, and what was the unusable teleporter and unreachable pit in the Scar originally for. SajuukKhar 4:04, 16 Feburary 2011
- Not necessarily. You forget two key points. 1) The Crystal Desert didn't exist during Doric's reign - it was the Crystal Sea. 2) We don't know the origin of the statues; also, there's only 3 evidences of Ascalonian influence in the Crystal Desert/Desolation - the dead soldiers in the Dragon's Lair's necro area, the structures, and ~5 ghosts in the Desolation (Poisoned Outcrops and Shattered Ravines areas). -- Konig/talk 18:34, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
- I always thought that the statues were made by the Ascalonians since the statues seem like they could have only been built after the Exodus as many sit at what would be the ocean floor, and the same statue heads can be found in the Catacombs in Pre-Searing. It seems to me that sometime after the exodus the Ascalonians went down there failed to Ascend, which we know they DID go down there, and those who came back also made the statue heads in the catacombs as a memorial to those who died, they were near Tombs IIRC. This leads to the possibility that the ruins in the outcrop were made as a we only went this far south in the desert during our ascension attempt. It seems more likely then what I had previously suggested. SajuukKhar 17:43, 16 February 2011
- My point was in response to this line "it could be the Ascalonian ruins in the Poisoned outcrops were made as a sort of southern boundary maker of the then Ascalon/Orr kingdom." This is not the case because during the time of the Ascalon/Orr single kingdom (read: Doric's rule), it was a sea not a desert. But other than that, it is speculation (thus unanswered) what the origin of those statues are and why there are heads of the same design in the Catacombs (and, most importantly, no where else in Ascalon - if they were of Ascalonian origin, they'd be elsewhere in Ascalon - however, there's concept art of similar gigantic statues for GW2 and thus we'll likely find out their story in gw2).
- Also, any expansion into the Crystal Desert would of likely been recent - a ghost found in the area mentions Rin, which was not the original capital of Drascir (I wonder if we know when Rin became the second capital... seemed recent), and we have non-decomposed corpses. But at the very least, they had to be after 452 AE due to the fact that since from 29 AE til then the Primeval Kings had influence over the Crystal Desert. And it's possible those statues belong to them. I doubt they're from Turai's group since there are no statues in the Desolation (which also supports the Ascalonian bit), but they could be from the Seekers - but since more statues exist in the southern end of the Crystal Desert, I'm thinking Elonian, thus imo Primeval Kings. -- Konig/talk 00:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I thought Elonian's at first but seeing that the statues are wearing Templar armor and that parts of the statues are found in Ascalon it looks to me that they came from there since Elonan's don't have Templar armor. I think that Ascalonian's went into the desert twice. Once sometime after the Primevil Kings fell which resulted in the building of the statues in the desert and upon their return home the building of the statue heads in the Catacombs, and a second more recent outing after Rin became the new Capitol which resulted in The Curator and the Corpses of the Ascalon Soldiers we find in Glints mission. I personally think that the original outing was before Turrai's group since there would be no need send people to collect artifacts when your right there already, also the weathering of the Statues and how they are all destroyed makes them seem older then the still standing Elonian buildings. As for them being located in the south i think it was a sign of Let all those you enter this desert know we are the Masters. SajuukKhar 3:18, 17 Feburary 2011
- I always thought that the statues were made by the Ascalonians since the statues seem like they could have only been built after the Exodus as many sit at what would be the ocean floor, and the same statue heads can be found in the Catacombs in Pre-Searing. It seems to me that sometime after the exodus the Ascalonians went down there failed to Ascend, which we know they DID go down there, and those who came back also made the statue heads in the catacombs as a memorial to those who died, they were near Tombs IIRC. This leads to the possibility that the ruins in the outcrop were made as a we only went this far south in the desert during our ascension attempt. It seems more likely then what I had previously suggested. SajuukKhar 17:43, 16 February 2011
(Reset indent) You need to keep in mind that when Prophecies was made, Elonian designs were probably not created. Most ghosts in the desert, while being Elonian, hold Ascalonian skins. Model comparison isn't exactly a good idea. Your argument for them being old fits best for the Primeval Kings, since they were masters of the desert for a long time - they were capable of passing through the Desolation (though probably less toxic during their time) and survive the desert. They were also fond of building monuments and other odd structures. The heads in the Catacombs could of either been from the curator's groups' excavations or from ancient trading with Ascalon. -- Konig/talk 19:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- While it is true that the ghosts had Ascalonian skins due to Elonan designs not even being thought of I still think the statues were made by Ascalonians. If they were made by Elonians wouldn't you expect them to be in some unknown armor style or the armor that the Ghostly Hero is wearing to represent that they were made by those people instead of a Tyrian armor style used Commonly in Ascalon while unused by the Elonians in Nightfall. Also The Great Northern Wall, the ruins in the Ascalon Foothills and the ruins in Dragons Gullet show the Ascalonians were also capable of building in large size. That the statue heads found in the Catacombs were gifts of trade also seems out of place since they are located near coffins/tombs IIRC and placed in a way as to represent the people buried there. Had the statues been made by the Elonians why wouldn't they build their tombs in Elona it is a shorter trip back to Elona and why would the Ascalonians use Elonian Statues in their tombs wouldn't a symbol more representing their people be more appropriate. SajuukKhar 15:00, 17 February 2011
- "a Tyrian armor style used Commonly in Ascalon" Sorry, but that's not true. Only three guys have a model which resembles Templar armor, and it's modified male. Those statues are (mainly, at least), female templar. Which is only available in Droknar's Forge (or elite version in Marhan's Grotto). By using the logic of where the armor comes from, those statues are from Deldrimor. -- Konig/talk 22:59, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- Have you considered that the Armor may be modeled AFTER the statue, and not the other way around? The statue was knoced down, the characters could perfectly describe it to a dwarf to get a similar one made for them. Mith
Talk 23:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- First off my logic was the the statues made by the people that use the armor the most aka Ascalonians. Secondly if the armor was made off of the statues and not the other way around one would expect to find the same armor style in the homeland of the people who made it. Elonian designs dont resemble Templar armor. There is at least one example of male Templar armor on the statues in Hero's Audiance, we dont know how many other statues got buried under sand there could have been more male statues that are gone. Had the armor originally came from the Dwarfs it would still make it Tyrian, It could be a gameplay mechanic that the armor is only available there or it could be that the dwarfs came up with the design and gave it to other people, however that would still make it far more likely that the Ascalonians got it from the dwarfs (since we know they use to trade with each other while we have no confirmation that the Dwarfs and Elonians ever met), grew attached to the design, went into the desert and built the statues and ruins in the Outcrops, then the Elonians going all the way past the desert (their Goal)crossing a big arse river getting the armor then going all the way back to the desert and making the statues and then throwing away the design completely in their lands. SajuukKhar 2:40, 18 February 2011
- I come to the conclusion that since we can never know who built these status unless a dev tell us and that there's evidence to back up both of our claims its kinda stupid to continue on a argument that can never end and whos only results in tons of spam on the talk page. Ill continue to look for odd and seemingly unanswered things in the game world so that they may be added to the page later on. SajuukKhar 9:50, 18 February 2011
- First off my logic was the the statues made by the people that use the armor the most aka Ascalonians. Secondly if the armor was made off of the statues and not the other way around one would expect to find the same armor style in the homeland of the people who made it. Elonian designs dont resemble Templar armor. There is at least one example of male Templar armor on the statues in Hero's Audiance, we dont know how many other statues got buried under sand there could have been more male statues that are gone. Had the armor originally came from the Dwarfs it would still make it Tyrian, It could be a gameplay mechanic that the armor is only available there or it could be that the dwarfs came up with the design and gave it to other people, however that would still make it far more likely that the Ascalonians got it from the dwarfs (since we know they use to trade with each other while we have no confirmation that the Dwarfs and Elonians ever met), grew attached to the design, went into the desert and built the statues and ruins in the Outcrops, then the Elonians going all the way past the desert (their Goal)crossing a big arse river getting the armor then going all the way back to the desert and making the statues and then throwing away the design completely in their lands. SajuukKhar 2:40, 18 February 2011
- Have you considered that the Armor may be modeled AFTER the statue, and not the other way around? The statue was knoced down, the characters could perfectly describe it to a dwarf to get a similar one made for them. Mith
- "a Tyrian armor style used Commonly in Ascalon" Sorry, but that's not true. Only three guys have a model which resembles Templar armor, and it's modified male. Those statues are (mainly, at least), female templar. Which is only available in Droknar's Forge (or elite version in Marhan's Grotto). By using the logic of where the armor comes from, those statues are from Deldrimor. -- Konig/talk 22:59, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
(Reset indent) I still disagree with them being Ascalonian due to timeline issues. It's impossible to have spread south prior to the Exodus due to both the fact that it was a sea and the Margonites ruled there, and if they did immediately afterwards they only ruled there for 29 years before the Primeval Kings came. They couldn't have spread their rule int the Crystal Desert until at least 452 AE, however the Forgotten have been in the desert since 174 AE (which means that the Primeval Kings and Forgotten either ruled in peace for ~300 years or the Primeval Kings had little say in the desert). Then there's also the fact that Turai Ossa said there were two groups that came after him - and we only know of 6 groups in the desert at all, 3 are confirmed to be before him, and 1 being his group. Thus leaves Seekers and Ascalonians. Also since the only hint of Ascalonian rule in the desert being fresh corpses and a ghost mentioning Rin, a recent capital, I'm guessing that they're the last to have entered. And it seems silly to go into a place after you're nation has been there and had to leave/died out. It just doesn't make sense given the dates, unless the statues got buried/eroded quickly, it just seems unlikely to be Ascalonian. -- Konig/talk 20:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
- I still think its Ascalonian because the armor the Statues wear is Templar armor, a Tyrian armor style with no Elonian equivalent in resemblance> The only NPC group that I know of to wear Templar armor are Ascalonian npcs. The Statue heads are also found in the Catacombs in the middle of Ascalon. The ruins in the Poisoned Outcrops are of Ascalonian Design showing that they did reached far south, The pillars around the Arid Sea Statue are the same as pillars found in Rin and NOT Elonian pillars, There was a 416 year gap between the fall of the Primevil Kings and Turrai Ossa's group for the Ascalonians to go, The Curator's dialog mentions Rin as a city never does he say Rin the capitol, Rin existed before it was made capitol and thus we have no way of knowing when he was sent(to me it doesn't make scene to send someone to collect Elonian artifacts AFTER your people had been in the ruins, one would think that they would have taken everything of valve when there, and it seems unlikely that someone would fund a artifact gathering after your entire nation has been destroyed and nothing remains of the country's infrastructure, placing the curators leave to after Turrai Ossa but before the Searing), the Statues decay also poses another problem it seems unlikely they would have fallen in 200 years, According to Turrai Ossa's dialog two groups came and FAILED to Ascend the Ascalonian corpses are located in the Dragons Lair a place only Accessible AFTER you have ascended the fact the soldiers were in the dragons lair shows that they made it past the test and that they couldn't be one of the two groups that failed, or if we bring Destiny's Edge lore into this it could be those soldiers somehow knew were the dragons lair was and dispelled the magic by realizing where they were thus never meeting Turrai Ossa and thus still not being one of the two groups that failed. As for the forgotten and Primevil kings IIRC the Forgotten only attack those who try to Ascend to test them, we have no information about the Primevil kings trying to ascend thus the Forgotten had to reason to bother them. Also they must have had some big power over the desert if they could build the tomb for their Primevil kings at the far end of the desert near the Ascalonian border, I wouldn't expect them to build it in a place they didn't believe they couldn't easily get to. SajuukKhar 17:10, 18 February 2011
- As to not have this going in repeating loops forever (there's only one new thing you said): You do not need to Ascend, in lore, to reach Glint's lair. We are teleported to Glint's lair after Ascending, but it's not the sole way to get there. Proof: Edge of Destiny. Oh, and based on Turai's dialogue in the Amnoon Oasis, along with other ghosts' dialogues I believe, Turai can only gain access to the Hall of Heroes once someone Ascends and opens the way for him to go to the Hall of Heroes. No one has succeeded in Ascending after Turai showed, otherwise he would not be helping us to Ascend. And, again, those Ascalonian corpses appear fresh. And I don't see how "not Ascending but getting to the Dragon's Lair" has to mean "never met Turai." -- Konig/talk 23:32, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
- I mentioned Edge Of Destiny and the non-ascension way into Glint's Lair in my previous post I claimed it was a possible scenario though this goes against Turrai Ossa saying "It would take you a million lifetimes to comb the desert and you would still never find her. Only those who Ascend will find the portal that takes them to her." and since the bodies in the Dragons Lair would be based off of the original dialog in the game and not with the you find it you get in back door which had yet to be made it leaves the very real possibility that the Ascalonians aren't one of the groups that failed. As for the Groups meeting, The Dragon's Lair is right next to the Tombs of the Primevil Kings had they used this backdoor they would have been nowhere near Turrai to meet him. I wont deny that the Ascalons went into the desert after Turrai Ossa's group and that they COULD have failed and that on their way home they COULD have stumbled into Glint's Lair. Still, based off of everything about the statues from the design of the armor to the architecture of the pillars around them being of Tyiran design instead of Elonain, it is VERY LIKELY that the Ascalonians had been in the desert at some point BEFORE Turrai Ossa. SajuukKhar 19:07, 18 February 2011
- As to not have this going in repeating loops forever (there's only one new thing you said): You do not need to Ascend, in lore, to reach Glint's lair. We are teleported to Glint's lair after Ascending, but it's not the sole way to get there. Proof: Edge of Destiny. Oh, and based on Turai's dialogue in the Amnoon Oasis, along with other ghosts' dialogues I believe, Turai can only gain access to the Hall of Heroes once someone Ascends and opens the way for him to go to the Hall of Heroes. No one has succeeded in Ascending after Turai showed, otherwise he would not be helping us to Ascend. And, again, those Ascalonian corpses appear fresh. And I don't see how "not Ascending but getting to the Dragon's Lair" has to mean "never met Turai." -- Konig/talk 23:32, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
- I still think its Ascalonian because the armor the Statues wear is Templar armor, a Tyrian armor style with no Elonian equivalent in resemblance> The only NPC group that I know of to wear Templar armor are Ascalonian npcs. The Statue heads are also found in the Catacombs in the middle of Ascalon. The ruins in the Poisoned Outcrops are of Ascalonian Design showing that they did reached far south, The pillars around the Arid Sea Statue are the same as pillars found in Rin and NOT Elonian pillars, There was a 416 year gap between the fall of the Primevil Kings and Turrai Ossa's group for the Ascalonians to go, The Curator's dialog mentions Rin as a city never does he say Rin the capitol, Rin existed before it was made capitol and thus we have no way of knowing when he was sent(to me it doesn't make scene to send someone to collect Elonian artifacts AFTER your people had been in the ruins, one would think that they would have taken everything of valve when there, and it seems unlikely that someone would fund a artifact gathering after your entire nation has been destroyed and nothing remains of the country's infrastructure, placing the curators leave to after Turrai Ossa but before the Searing), the Statues decay also poses another problem it seems unlikely they would have fallen in 200 years, According to Turrai Ossa's dialog two groups came and FAILED to Ascend the Ascalonian corpses are located in the Dragons Lair a place only Accessible AFTER you have ascended the fact the soldiers were in the dragons lair shows that they made it past the test and that they couldn't be one of the two groups that failed, or if we bring Destiny's Edge lore into this it could be those soldiers somehow knew were the dragons lair was and dispelled the magic by realizing where they were thus never meeting Turrai Ossa and thus still not being one of the two groups that failed. As for the forgotten and Primevil kings IIRC the Forgotten only attack those who try to Ascend to test them, we have no information about the Primevil kings trying to ascend thus the Forgotten had to reason to bother them. Also they must have had some big power over the desert if they could build the tomb for their Primevil kings at the far end of the desert near the Ascalonian border, I wouldn't expect them to build it in a place they didn't believe they couldn't easily get to. SajuukKhar 17:10, 18 February 2011
