Talk:Ancestors' Rage

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I see the need for a nerf on this skill, but the Exhaustion just ruins this skill. Ragespike isn't the only for of a ritspike either, Shadow Prison/Dark Prison --> Iron Palm/Dancing + Entangling Asp --> Spirit Rift --> Channeled Strike is nearly unstoppable when properly executed with Earthbind. I suppose I would rather have it this way, balancing skills is iffy buisiness. I just wish there was something else that could be done. Make it an enchantment and function more like Balthazars Aura? Cause exhaustion only when you target an ally instead of yourself? Lose extra energy when cast on an ally instead of yourself? 71.36.12.137 21:41, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Exhaustion suffocates it. I'd prefer around half the damage and recharge for 5e, and no Exhaustion. e.g.: 20...60...70 with a 4s recharge. Less spike, but still nice damage output --Cirian 03:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the skill needs a total change, even 5 energy cannot save it. Exhaustion makes it unattractive. Too bad Ritualists lose one of their few (2 - Spirit Rift, Ancestor's Rage) AoE nukes. HA is not the only game mode in GW. --Longasc 12:14, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Fixed 2 Nerf = Bad 3 Immune to Dazed & Other Spell Effects? 4 wording 5 Reason for Change? 6 Seeing the Damage 7 Pop up when you hover over skill 8 Balthazar's Aura and This 9 ANOTHER NERF 10 April 17th nerf

[edit] Fixed

I like how they did it. It's still potent, just no good for spiking. Arshay Duskbrow 04:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The Enchantment idea was the egg of columbus. I wonder why cast time needed a buff, or energy cost to be lowered. Was pretty comfortable with 1 second cast and 10 energy. --Longasc 10:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

1/4 cast time was to compensate for having to wait an additional second to do the damage. --Ckal Ktak 21:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Han't anyone noticed how good this is with shadowstepping? With or without 20% enchant, assassin shadowsteps with 1/4 cast become AoE damage and shadowstep, with 20% Ride the Lightning hits hard for about 245 damage, even necromancer teleports are good, when someone dies, they trigger death nova, AR->Consume Corpse.

Except that Ride the Lightning is 1 second cast and therefore can't be used before anscestors goes off.

yes it can if you use a +20% enchanting mod. --207.172.193.204 20:24, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

With Aftercast you still won't have enough time. - HeWhoIsPale 20:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Fuck aftercast, it works. Well, it did work when it still was a enchantment. 82.74.236.237 20:04, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nerf = Bad

Izzy said he is looking at this spike for the next balance. How would nerfing this skill, say 10 energy, make this balanced. It has the drawback of being an enchantment, which can be got around and has been, but at the cost of often putting yourself into uncomfortable situations, or targeting the warrior instead. Compare this to Fireball or Liquid Flame which both do the same damage at similar costs but both having drawbacks, one is a projectile but can be avoided, and the other has a long recharge but both target directly the opponent which makes them less awkward to use. The only "advantages" this skill has is the casting cost, which is balanced by the awkward use of targeting an ally instead of your opponent. Using it as a double spike with Ride the Lightning and other Air touch skills is balanced by the skill forcing you to move to melee range. I don't see how this skill needs another nerf from what it is, considering there are alternative in another class similar to it. Rits can't afford to spend as much energy as other classes and Fire magic is still seen in high level play with Searing Flames and Liquid Flame and that combo was buffed not nerfed. Dancing Gnome 03:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Its a 100 damage, 5 energy, targeted nuke. Its better than fireball, namely the 8 times faster cast... — Skuld 04:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

In other words: if you're wondering how this is better than Fireball, then I bet Distracting Shot is just dying to show you. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 04:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't wondering why it is better, I know fireball has a longer cast time I just forgot to write that down. I said compare it to fireball and then later on went to extend my statement with comparison to Liquid Flame particularly in the commonly played Searing Flames build - I didn't make an already lengthy statement longer by detailing the balance of fireball. The mention of fireball was simply the similar damage and recharge. I was trying to bring in the most relevant skills to compare this to, as Air spells do not do AoE and have armour penetration I chose the fire spells - and Fireball and Liquid Flame were the two which seemed the most relevant and different ways to balance, the former being worse in specific high end PvP for the reasons stated above. Liquid Flame is a good skill but its appearance in High End PvP is based around synergy with Searing Flames not the power of the skill itself. Ancestor's Rage is a targeted nuke but it targets an ally, to say it is a targeted nuke without mentioning it doesn't target your opponent is misleading because most people will assume it means you can target your opponent. Liquid Flames is more easy to target than this spell. Dancing Gnome 05:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Except you cast this on melee, and melee is good. Apples and pears. — Skuld 05:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Liquid Flame is more versatile because it can hit the EXACT same target as this can, but it can do it WITHOUT melee. The melee IS a drawback because by purpose of its existence it lowers the versatility of this skill.EDIT: Liquid Flame is also nearby not just Adjacent. Dancing Gnome 05:18, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

You spam flare then, i'll use Wearying Strike + this. — Skuld 12:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

O well, no more dervish battery..24.47.18.113 00:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Can this skill be stacked now (multiple Rages on a single character), or is that still in place? Making it a skill has some nice features, and the loss of Dervish Battery is an acceptable one based on it's actual purpose... I'm just curious if this change re-enables the multiple Rages For The Kill move. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 03:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Just tested it on Isle of the Nameless with heroes, it doesn't stack. Makes sense, if it did it would be (almost?) as powerful as the pre-nerf(s) version (1s delay but -5e and -0.5s cast and a skill instead of a spell). Nadiv 09:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Now that it's a skill, you can use this on spirits. :) (Terra Xin 00:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Immune to Dazed & Other Spell Effects?

Does this skill now become immune to all the anti spell skills? Dancing Gnome 07:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

ye, mostly all interupts and anti-spel thing skils is useles now. --Cursed Angel 11:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

But even when it was a enchantment, with ¼ CT the anti-spells skills & daze werent a real counter to this skill. And i know, because i use it alot. - Kiji 14:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd say Pain of Disenchantment, Soul Barbs, Scourge Enchantment, Backfire, Shadow Shroud, Arcane Languor, Power Leech and Shame. But you're right with the interupts, they wont hurt this one. The reason why this changed was a caster item that lenghtened the enchantment duration, can anyone tell me what that thing is? --Cursed Angel 21:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Casters often simply use a Staff with an of Enchanting mod on it, or a one-handed weapon with the same mod. The slightly longer delay on the skill made it easier to activate Rage, then shadowstep to someone, then have it go off (as opposed to casting it on someone who's already in range). -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 21:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

casters in pvp will always carry +30hp. - Y0_ich_halt 21:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Switch to the Enchanting for the spell, switch out after cast. If it means another half-second out of a strong skill, it'll find it's way out there. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 22:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

ya, but not for something like ancestor's :) - Y0_ich_halt 22:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

True. :P -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 02:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wording

i always like skills that can make the game stop... "for 1 second, nothing happens" :3 - Y0_ich_halt 13:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

"For one second, everyone thinks the game has lagged out. Then they get spiked for massive damage!" -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 16:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

mega tripwire. - Y0_ich_halt 18:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for Change?

I've seen two theories, one is to prevent enchant mods from working on it so you can't shadow step/teleport and have it trigger, or the other is it was too good on the Dervish with Mysticism acting as a battery (seems more logically broken but I never saw people running this as opposed to the former). Is it now no-longer possible to shadow step spike without the enchanting mod? Dancing Gnome 05:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

One thing I'm curious about is, did it ever work that way with an enchanting mod? According to calculations, 20% of one second rounds up to one second. Did the skill actually last any longer?

But I personally think the main reason for the change was the fact that it being an enchantment gave it all sorts of combos it was never meant for. Use it on an allied Dervish to gain him energy. Another use I was hearing was D/Rt, use it for a point-blank spike on top of your Scythe spike, not to mention the energy gain. Self-contained, tons of damage, and practically free.

I think there's more combos with it being an enchantment... plenty that never really got used (yet). It's just simpler to change it now, the type change is enough to kill silly combos, while doing absolutely nothing to the skill itself. It's harder to interrupt now (just in case someone manages to do it anyway), isn't affected by a few nasty skills, and so on. The other option was to wait until it becomes some sort of metagame degenerate combo, then kill it and mess up the whole metagame in the process. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 07:05, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I saw quite a lot in observer mode the Ancestors' Rage + Ride the Lightning combo. They then followed up with Air Magic touch skills. It looked like a lot of fun. I'm assuming then either you don't need an enchanting mod to do it or the enchanting mod did help it out. Dancing Gnome 08:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

1 sec enchantment + 20% enchanting mod = 2 sec enchantment for some reason. — Skuld 00:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

In Gaile news I saw the reason for this nerf was the Ride the Lightning combo... no mention was made of the Dervish method, (I never saw the D/Rt one anyway). I think that's a ridiculous reason for a change, it claims it was insta kill, which is blatantly false. I don't think I ever saw the spike kill anyone. 58.106.236.226 06:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Before the removal of being an enchantment, I used to RtL spike all the time :P (having Splinter Weapon up) Spirit Rift + Ancestors' Rage + Ride the Lightning + Wielder's Strike = GG It was fun in FA :D

[edit] Seeing the Damage

I think before the one second delay, the caster of Ancestor's Rage could see the damage done by this spell. Now, only the target can see the damage. (If you cast Ancestor's Rage on yourself or your pet, then of course you are both the caster and the target, and can see the damage).

I'd like to see the person who gets to see the damage switched back to the caster (like Zealot's Fire and Balthazar's Aura) so that the user of Ancestor's Rage knows how much damage he is doing. --Ctran 21:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pop up when you hover over skill

needs to get changed from enchantment spell to skill 72.183.210.160 23:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Balthazar's Aura and This

These 2 spells serve a similar role, AoE dmg that you can put on a frontliner. Why is it that this one seems so much better than Balth's Aura? 24.175.73.151 06:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, Balthazar's Aura does more damage then this overall, but yes... I think Balthazar's Aura could use a buff anyway. Monks aren't as damage-focused as Ritualists, but that seems like a poor excuse for a 20-energy difference in similar spells. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 07:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ANOTHER NERF

Anet phails.. :/ reverse please, this was a good balanced rit skill, make it back like it, underpowered now ! 84.192.144.207 19:13, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

lol - Y0_ich_halt 19:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

103 dmg @ rank 14 is still pretty damn good, imo. NeonCrusader 21:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Underpowered now? Name a better 5 energy damage skill. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 03:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

FLARE! 24.238.94.19 04:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Ancestor's Rage does 89 at rank 12, Flare does 56. However, flare doesn't have the 8 second recharge, so it's hard to say. MiraLantis 04:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Flare also doesn't have that AoE effect, so the damage Rage can do technically would be much higher (providing you have a teammate who can position themselves nicely, or just happens to be in a good position). I think Rage is still more then enough damage to keep it on most Ritualist's bars, even if it's not so great as it was. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 05:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Lol it does 89 damage at 12 CM, which would do maybe 40 damage against a warrior or so? lol >.< well yeh its underpowered now imo :/ maybe less recharge would be better? 84.192.144.207 09:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

So what... 104 AoE lightning dmg isn't bad for 5 energy, even some warrs could use it to solo cap :) Ninjas In The Sky 13:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

More then 40 damage against a Warrior, they've only got 80 armor against it. Somewhere around 60-ish, I would guess. Now against a Ranger, that's 40-ish, but you generally don't have to worry about Rangers being that close to begin with. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 06:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

This whole section makes me go ): --71.229 06:25, 9 March 2008 (UTC) except your post, y0. <3

how jio manages to jump into these conversations w/o killing himself is beyond me. -dark.

there's nothing else to say but "lol". there's two reasons for this: a)QQing about this pseudo-nerf. b)having a serious comparison between flare and this. - Y0_ich_halt 19:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

A reasonable comparions might be Inferno. Yes, it does cost less, but Ritualists do have the worse energy management. Put the damage up to where it had been and the recharge to 10 or 12 and I'd be fine. Noctarch 21:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] April 17th nerf

It now takes 1 second to cast, up from 1/4 :( Gogey 23:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

MEGA NERF BAT *cries*

There goes one of my favorite skills, alongside with deathpact and Watch yourself, which is completely dead now. :< Halogod35 01:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Read the developer notes. The changes are scheduled to be reverted on May 1st. QQ less. 76.89.81.150 01:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

*QQ's Less* Halogod35 07:37, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow...didn't think anyone would actually do that lol. Was expecting the opposite. 76.89.81.150 00:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)