Talk:Avatar of Grenth

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does the enchantment removal occur before or after the attack skill hite (for example...will reversal of fortitude take effect or not if hit by an attack skill while under the effects of this form) Killer Revan 16:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

are we sure that anomaly is correct? from what I remember of GvGs before this was nerfed into the dirt you used to be able to remove guardian/aegis every attack skill they didnt have a cover. meaning the enchantment was removed before you actually hit the foe. someone wanna check?--Coloneh 08:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree with the anomaly either, but not in the same way. All attack skills need to 'hit' in order for them to be used. An attack skill that does not hit their target is not considered to be used 100%. It was activated successfully, yes - but not used successfully. (Terra Xin 00:35, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

so i herd aog sucks donkey nuts — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 04:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post Nerf

is it just me or is this skill pretty much useless now? --Lou-Saydus 17:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you'd never see an AoG build. Cold damage, first you can add a modifier to any weapon to deal cold damage. Second, removing enchantments is quite easy with the Dervish without using an elite. It'd be nice if it had some sort of extra bonus effect like "Every death in your area while under Avatar of Grenth will give you 5 energy." Even then, it wouldn't be used often, but at least it'd be used. --Eyekwah 12:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Ye, I don't see why it remains nerfed after they imbabuffed Rending Touch. -Auron 12:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Pfft, it's far from fucking useless now, this is gonna be the new meta melee for fag-roll-farmway, I swear. 80.193.1.106 21:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It's a pressure beast in PvP, But I find it practically useless in PvE now, That much I stand by. Kinslayer 13:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Skill Rework

oh snap.24.47.18.113 20:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it needs a second effect(maby attack skills do 25% more damage on enchanted foes aswell aas being unblockable).(Marsc 21:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC))

When this skill ends any nearby foes below 50% health die. --74.61.209.219 22:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Every time you hit a foe with more then 50% health that foe suffers from poison, disease, and deep wound and you lose 60...40...20 health and 8...5...3 energy and suffer from bleeding. Every time you hit an enchanted foe with less then 50% health that foe loses 1 enchantment and you gain 10..30...50 health and 1...3...5 energy.

Every time you hit target foe, target foe dies. Come on, seriously guys?24.47.18.113 23:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Add crippling in as an effect somewhere, that would fit the "cold grasp of Grenth" idea. Aside from that, the new version of this skill looks both useless and really, really useful suddenly... I don't run into much blocking in PvE myself, but I do appreciate how useful this can be in the Arenas... --

Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 00:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

think gvg...to many guilds use agis..well agis is now useless and because there enchanted no stances etc will block...thus you have now got an unblockable fruntline...and rember most casters use an enchat of sorts so they fall to...expesh with only 60 ar...ok so your hp regen got nerfed but how about leting your monks do the work haha...and most of the time your only runing 2 encants on ya self and misic any way--82.34.243.68 00:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

wow.........can u say ....typo......

Nerfed to death. gg. Ojamo 20:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it is a good skill re-work. Enchantments, e.g. Reversal of Fortune, are so common in PvP that this skill is now very useful. Shield of Deflection e.g. spells doom on the target if it is attacked by a Grenth Dervish. Only unenchanted foes can protect themselves by blocking stances or wards. The strong and really creative part of this skill re-work is that all the many options to block the attacker are null and void the moment he has any enchantment active...^^ - and the cool thing is, it might also have some use in PvE. Enchantment removal was never that important there. But the guys who block most often are whirling defense mobs, and they are not always enchanted. But maybe Grenth now sees use in PvE as well, time will tell. --Longasc 22:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I would love to see some bonus damage vs. enchanted foes tacked-on to your attack skills with this up, or something of the sort, but it looks to be pretty strong as it is. I don't GvG at all, so I rarely run into the "blockway" meta, but I do run into plenty of Monks just using Guardian on themselves; wouldn't mind punishing them a bit for it. Shattering Assault's good for that reason, this basicially makes it so you don't need to rip those enchantments. And Rending Touch is always there for the enchantments you really don't want to see. I think I'll give this a test in AB, just to see how it runs. --

Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 07:03, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Life stealing from enchanted foes may be a good second effect. Elite Form. For 10...74...90 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, your attacks deal cold damage, and you steal up to 18...52...60 Health from enchanted foes. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. Forgot to sign >.< --MageMontu 12:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

there there, this change is still being evaluated. lol. personally i like it..--203.90.16.96 15:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't this be good for ading conjure frost since it deals cold damage? the advantage being you could bring a weapon with a different mod besides cold for extra damage, and a cold scythe for when this elite runs out. Just an idea though. 68.187.16.3 23:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC) Gabe

I don't think the dmaage type will come into much use, personally. How many people use Avatar of Melendru for it's conversion to Earth damage? (ignoring the fact that there's no earth-damage conjure to take advantage of.) --

Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 05:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think this skill needs ANYTHING else at the moment. In PvP this Avatar is now a beast of a pressure machine. I've already seen multiple variants of these guys running around Ladder GvG, and all over RA. GvG AT's I've yet to see it at, but I don't give it much time. Saw two top 100 guilds the other day fight it out on Burning Isle, one was running two D/A Grenth Derv's. Derv's ROLLED the other team. Personally, I've been running this build in RA a bunch and it's been doing damn well.

It's been doing it's job. Guardian/SoD/Prot's are like an on-switch for a target once this is up. Disarm wouldn't be a bad skill versus Eremite's for some utility for GvG either. Gothica 01:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NERF?

I see this as a nerf. Before this was best way to remove enchantments, now its is just a worse version of fox's promise 96.240.137.64 02:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

it was good until they nerfed it out of existence by taking the duration down to 40 seconds. This is good now as it is.24.47.18.113 19:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

yeah some where down the line it was decided that spell castors are the most important player base in the game so anything that rufles their feathers get anally nerfed, and hard. daze, enchant removal, player skill, forsieght, reaction time, use of grey matter. all nerfed in aid of our little silked claded "freinds" known as spellcastors. "ooooh, but i dont have enough armor to handle a scythe to the face"..."listen, its not my fault you decided it would be a good idea to wear a silk dress to a battle feild! ofcourse chilling victory hurts you, to be honest a healing breeze should deal a lil cold dmg to your fragile little frame as well :P"05:00, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] This skill makes little sense now

Grenth is the god of death and ice. Well, AoG has the ice part, but where is the "death"? The former enchantment stripping could be thought of as destroying life a little at a time. There's a lot of ways of "can't be blocked" and the enchantment-condition is probably not in your favor, seeing how many enchantments are unconditional dmg reduction. I see little use in PvE, since blocking is usually not an issue, and PvP, you're probably better off stripping their enchantments. Perhaps this skill should deal bonus dmg based on the number of enchantments on the target, maybe capped, but nonetheless a fair dmg boost. --8765 04:33, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

i thought grenth was the god of justice... Twiggie 18:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Why did they even nerf AoG anyway?Luke Karr

Grenth Bio 69.154.18.7 00:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Skill rework really badly.

I suggest something that fits the idea of Grenth being evil and icy so something like;

Every time you strike an enchanted foe, that foe moves 5..7..10% slower each time you strike them (80% max) and that foe loses 3 energy per hit, enchanted foes also cannot block your attacks ~ Tengu.

just no. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.193.1.106 (talk • contribs) at 21:44, April 28, 2008 (UTC).

that would make D/A's with daggers, better e-denial then the fear me-sin (which got nerfed) .. very very very bad suggestion Close Impact 16:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Just No lol --

Wild 07:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The slowed movement is an interesting idea, but no. How about: "Every time you hit with an attack, if your target is enchanted, you steal 5..15 life. If not, that creature's movement is slowed by 5..10% (maximum 60%)" or something along those lines. Enishi

No. I like the idea that you're punished for having enchantments just like for Avatar of Lyssa you're punished for using skills. It wouldn't make any sense to deal unconditional punishment with Avatar of Grenth. Plus it would be way overpowered. It's already very powerful as it is. --Eyekwah 13:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Still, the life steal idea is good, and goes along well with the whole God of the Necromancers thing. It'd be a bit more useful than the can't be blocked thing...But this isn't the most underpowered elite, and it sure isn't being abused. So I doubt they'll change it. 72.81.247.139 05:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

O' really? Avatar of Lyssa has +20 max energy, Avatar of Grenth has...cold damage --_--". Don't just say stuff because you want your monk to have an easier job.--ITAMAR 10:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Elite

i completely Suggest they take this out as an Elite skill and make it regular....Because This skill is about as Useful as Dungeon maps

You should sign your comments. And I disagree with you, you can stack Dungeons Maps - the Maps have won. Noctarch 02:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

yea, dungeon maps are more useful. 75.61.32.166 17:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Snowball Fighting

I have to say, I'd honestly rather have that description for this avatar than what it has now. At least a free vampiric is worth it a bit more. Cedave 13:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] It's Sad

That the coolest looking Derv Form is such a pathetic loser. Avatar of Grenth...the Avatar of the God of Death is the biggest pansy I know. 129.62.129.120 18:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

This skill, like many, desperately needs a PvE version. I want to play a Dervish of Death and Justice, dammit. <_< Keneth 01:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Still no buff for this shitty....shitty skill. *sigh*

This needs to just be unblockabale for attack skills but deals something like at 16 mysticism +20 cold damage to nearby foes and an extra +30 cold damage if the target is enchanted, also since chilling victory is in wind prayers this wouldn't cause to many problems since you'd have to put points into 3 attributes to even try to abuse the aoe damage in PvP.(marsc 14:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC))

Um...your suggestion is very OP. Honestly, I think the skill should be completely reworked. I think it should steal life from enchanted vows rather than being unblockable. Something along the lines of what Nightmare Weapon does. Idk, just sounds more like Grenth to me. 75.61.32.166 19:52, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

How about for each hit +X Cold Damage is added to the next attack (add a cap to it), Unblockable if foes is enchanted, and when the form ends foe takes +X damage for how many attacks were successful.

[edit] Finally fixed

Took Anet long enough. Either way, I hope it gets a pve/pvp split next week. 24.26.253.105 21:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Nice! This was the only crap avatar in pve imo... Jaian Avery 03:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

this is an interesting buff... I am looking foward to what it does... 20 health steal on every hit... +5 with a vamp... +cold damage, +extra damage from Conjure Frost... could be fun! SabreWolf 04:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Hamana hamana hamana hamana...o_O

Wandering Traveler 04:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Would be great to see at least a little bit of this overflow into the PvP version, but hey, it's still quite nice. --

Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 05:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If you have AoHM active as well as this, would your attacks deal cold or holy damage? I ask because obviously if AoHM overwrites the cold damage there would be no reason to take conjure frost.

I suppose this should be fun against destroyers... Mini Me 13:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you izzy, it's about freaking time. 24.26.253.105 15:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, this avatar finally has a use. Will go great with my heroes 75.9.232.33 18:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fun with Assassin Secondary

I just had fun with this against the practice dummies. Put this on your D/A with 16 Mysticism, 12 Daggers, Heart of Fury, Zealous Daggers, and a quick lead-off-dual combo.Ninjatek 19:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Too bad D/A with daggers chains are bad anyway.

reanor 21:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It feels and plays like a Spirit's Strength dagger rit really. Bonus damage on hit (but now it's life steal). It really does do its job well. With better energy management because of mysticism. --The Sins We Live By 16:19, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I used this:

Sunspear Rebirth Signet

If the life steal is not enough for some self-protection, you may swap the Zeal for Meditation, and non, dagger dervishes are surely not bad. Ɲ oɕʈɋɽɕɧ 20:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Well sure u could do that...or u could just use a scythe and be hitting up to 3 people all the time like a real dervish? instead of the single target(aside from death blossom) dagger attacks.Fire and deaths 03:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

(aside from death blossom) is a pretty big deal, considering the enemies just have to be adjacent. With a scythe they also have to be in front of you. and DB hits twice. |Nalana

Darkling| 15:49, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Db = only hits target u are aiming at. The life steal doesnt affect the bonus dmg that your adjacent foes take.74.173.234.18 22:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Scaling?

Anyone gonna add the scaling for the life stealing?--Glory 02:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Done. --

Wandering Traveler 02:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

K thanks.--Glory 02:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I was testing it out with jagged strike, lotus strike (only here because I want to be able to better maintain the energy pool while testing), and vampiric assault. The latter of which at 9 deadly arts and maxed mysticism gives a 98 or so health steal, not to mention any damage you deal besides. And as I recall, life theft slides right past damage reducing protection skills.

[edit] Damage Packets

if you deal multiple damage packets, will you steal life multiple times? can someone test? (i dont have a derv, never liked men in skirts:P)212.187.73.45 14:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)VALAR212.187.73.45 14:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

and your attacks deal cold damage and steal 5...17...20 life. Read the bold part. If you're still confused then read it around fifty more times b.r // talk 14:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean that if i use a conjure for example, the damage dealt by the conjure will be a different package and therefore i will steal life twice?VALAR212.187.73.45 14:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC) nvm idiotic question. but it would be interesting to use this with splinter and volley.....

Splinter has no affect on the life steal b.r // talk 14:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I tested it for you. Each attack you make steals health. This means Sun & Moon slash steals life twice, Barrage steals life up to seven times, Twin Moon Sweep steals life twice, etc. Effects such as Splinter Weapon, Conjure Flame, and Dark Aura (blessing) do not affect the life-stealing. --Jette

20:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

If you could have two elites this + barrage would win...but volley may be decent as well :) |Nalana

Darkling| 15:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Dance with Scythe

Have u ever tried to dance with this in explorable area with a scythe? It looks pretty funny with asuran scythe...

[edit] M.O.X.

Any1 else noticed the face that appears on M.O.X. when he uses it?

Forgot to sign. Super Range Ranger Cow 18:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] How do I unlock this?

How do I unlock the PvE version of Avatar of Grenth (and also Eremite's Attack) from a Priest of Balthazar with Balthazar Faction points, for my M.O.X. to use? The Priest only lists the PvP versions of these in his list. - 207.190.50.4 02:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Unlocking the PvP version will unlock the PvE version. 68.113.151.226 03:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yea-it's the same skill just they work differently in PvP and PvE.

[edit] PvP-version

IMO it sucks that life stealing is removed in the pvp version. that makes this skill (and most builds relying on it) completely useless. that just realy annoys me!!

It used to be batshit overpowered. It removed an enchantment with each attack skill, and was usually combined with Wild Blow to make sure the attack hit. It made targets basically unprottable, like a 90-second OoA. --Jette

18:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)