Talk:Cleave
From Guild Wars Wiki
I like this skill. `Raptaz 13:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I do too. Reiauna 08:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
This is a very good, but very overlooked elite. It has a good amount of damage with a good adrenaline cost. Very spammable. I think people just tend to overlook it because it is easily capped, unlike other axe elites which are harder to find. FleshAndFaith
nah they tend to overlook it because dragonslash can be spammed constantly using 4GreatJustice. since dragonslash feeds adernaline to all the skills on a bar, its alot better than this once u get the adrenaline required to spam. cleave could do with a very slight buff imho, but thats jut me. 86.163.249.54 08:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Personally I think this is overlooked because some Elites can easily be combined with other skills. For instance, Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike take the same amount of adrenaline to be used, and that's a total of 60-70 extra damage (with 12-14 Axe Mastery). That's a mighty lot if you ask me. There's hardly any other axe skill that can mix with Cleave like that, so maybe some people got smart and put both Executioner's Strike and Eviscerate in their builds. Remember, adrenaline stacks. Bisurge 19:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I think its overlooked bc its an elite power attack |Nalana
Darkling| 20:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
- Imo now that WE has been nerfed it's more the recently-buffed Whirling Axe that this loses out to, since for +10 damage at most you can get unblockability (which in turn means you won't be wasting your adrenaline by spamming this if it gets blocked) and remove a stance (which is great in TA and GvG). Also, to get a Deep Wound with this you need Dismember, and since that does no extra damage, the Cleave/Dismember combo is much inferior to Eviscerate (which is live Cleave + Dismember in one skill) with another attack skill (e.g. Executioner's Strike). The main advantage of this is that you need only 5 adrenaline, not 8, so oyu can spike almost twice as often, but that's not so good if your spike never skills due to lack of overall damage. I can see this being used in pressure builds, where you may simply want to do many packets of damage, possibly to different foes, but tbh it still needs a bit of a buff, what with Power Creep and all. 81.109.179.84 15:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's never used because it's worse than Penetrating Blow, for heaven's sake. Go look at the maths on the damage calculation page if you don't believe me. This is one of the worst Warrior elites there is along with Primal Rage and Dwarven Battle Stance. Astralphoenix777 04:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- It's not as bad as penetrating blow if you have a decent Strength score. It is pretty bad though. The fact is, no pure damage elite is ever going to be used on warriors because pure damage is not what warriors do, it's what Dervishes do. Warriors do lots and lots of damage, but also do things like this, this, and this, all of which are more dangerous than simple de-redbarring. Eviscerate isn't better than Cleave because of its damage, it's better because not only does it have awesome damage, it does 2 things in one and reduces spike time. Bar compression is good for reasons I don't need to explain, spike time being low is good for reasons that I shouldn't need to explain if you have any knowledge of the game whatsoever. Deep Wound means if your target has a max health of at least 500 (and unless they're Death Penaltied out the ying yang, they will), it's an instant unprottable (unless you're a plant, for some reason) 100 damage, that also significantly reduces healing. This stacks on top of the +33 damage it does, and the average of 40-60 or so damage it'll do depending on the target's armor, meaning in one hit you can knock out almost 200 health. Back when Guild Wars was about skill, that was unbeatable. Then you'd follow it up with the aptly named Executioner's Strike for another 100 damage, which should be about half your target's health -- assuming your time is helping you like they're supposed to be, the target should be more than dead by now. Warriors aren't just about pressure, they're about threat and disruption and cutting somebody's health bar in half in a little over a second. Cleave has zero spike potential because it does less damage than Eviscerate, does not apply its own deep wound (meaning you need to take an extra skill, one that does zero bonus damage, in order to get something that is required to kill targets), and overall reduces adrenaline gain because of the way adrenaline works. The fact is, even if cleave did +60 damage, it's unlikely people would take it, because Eviscerate still does +130. --Jette
05:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- Glad to see someone who knows what they're talking about at last. Also, touche with regards to Penetrating Blow vs. Cleave; I wasn't taking into account Strength-based armour penetration. Astralphoenix777 17:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
- It's not as bad as penetrating blow if you have a decent Strength score. It is pretty bad though. The fact is, no pure damage elite is ever going to be used on warriors because pure damage is not what warriors do, it's what Dervishes do. Warriors do lots and lots of damage, but also do things like this, this, and this, all of which are more dangerous than simple de-redbarring. Eviscerate isn't better than Cleave because of its damage, it's better because not only does it have awesome damage, it does 2 things in one and reduces spike time. Bar compression is good for reasons I don't need to explain, spike time being low is good for reasons that I shouldn't need to explain if you have any knowledge of the game whatsoever. Deep Wound means if your target has a max health of at least 500 (and unless they're Death Penaltied out the ying yang, they will), it's an instant unprottable (unless you're a plant, for some reason) 100 damage, that also significantly reduces healing. This stacks on top of the +33 damage it does, and the average of 40-60 or so damage it'll do depending on the target's armor, meaning in one hit you can knock out almost 200 health. Back when Guild Wars was about skill, that was unbeatable. Then you'd follow it up with the aptly named Executioner's Strike for another 100 damage, which should be about half your target's health -- assuming your time is helping you like they're supposed to be, the target should be more than dead by now. Warriors aren't just about pressure, they're about threat and disruption and cutting somebody's health bar in half in a little over a second. Cleave has zero spike potential because it does less damage than Eviscerate, does not apply its own deep wound (meaning you need to take an extra skill, one that does zero bonus damage, in order to get something that is required to kill targets), and overall reduces adrenaline gain because of the way adrenaline works. The fact is, even if cleave did +60 damage, it's unlikely people would take it, because Eviscerate still does +130. --Jette
- It's never used because it's worse than Penetrating Blow, for heaven's sake. Go look at the maths on the damage calculation page if you don't believe me. This is one of the worst Warrior elites there is along with Primal Rage and Dwarven Battle Stance. Astralphoenix777 04:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- Imo now that WE has been nerfed it's more the recently-buffed Whirling Axe that this loses out to, since for +10 damage at most you can get unblockability (which in turn means you won't be wasting your adrenaline by spamming this if it gets blocked) and remove a stance (which is great in TA and GvG). Also, to get a Deep Wound with this you need Dismember, and since that does no extra damage, the Cleave/Dismember combo is much inferior to Eviscerate (which is live Cleave + Dismember in one skill) with another attack skill (e.g. Executioner's Strike). The main advantage of this is that you need only 5 adrenaline, not 8, so oyu can spike almost twice as often, but that's not so good if your spike never skills due to lack of overall damage. I can see this being used in pressure builds, where you may simply want to do many packets of damage, possibly to different foes, but tbh it still needs a bit of a buff, what with Power Creep and all. 81.109.179.84 15:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
