Talk:Dhuum
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[edit] Pictures
What does Dhuum is like? this? Maybe this? Mith
Talk 15:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- First one looks more like a Seer. Hmm.... --
MrSmiles 05:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
- I do believe the second one is the statue of "The Darkness", is it not? It is involved in the quest Good Demon Hunting. --82.42.138.114 20:16, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
- He looks like Fabio, but with dark hair. 24.237.82.247 06:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- The first is a concept art of a member of an army which can also be seen here. I doubt Dhuum is a flag bearer. I'd guess the first was a planned new servant of Menzies (the flags are pure red, such as the flags near the Priest of Menzies - and that statue...). The statue is all over the Domain of Fear, who knows what it is of. I doubt it is of Dhuum. Most likely, it is a remnant of the insectoid gods such as Arachnia. I don't think we have any hint of Dhuum's form. -- Konig/talk 14:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- He looks like Fabio, but with dark hair. 24.237.82.247 06:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- I do believe the second one is the statue of "The Darkness", is it not? It is involved in the quest Good Demon Hunting. --82.42.138.114 20:16, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Name
Should it be noted that Dhuum could be the phonetic spelling of doom? :3 «troy.frostwind» 17:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Evil 6 Gods?
It starting to seem, that there maybe an evil set of gods opposed to the Current 6 Gods... Menzies, Dhuum and Abbadon, each have or are realated to the currents gods of Tyria... so I wonder if there is an opposite Dwyana, Merlandru and Lyssa? - SabreWolf 19:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
- Concerning the opposite of Melandru, i wonder, if the Nightmare Court ([1])has gods--86.192.90.41 19:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- The idea of opposites is flawed at Abaddon. He didn't have an opposite, just a predecessor and a successor. Menzies is also not a god, his status in deity-ness is unknown, just being a half-brother of Balthazar. I think he is a spirit, personally. Though the "six evil gods" could hold some value - depending on if the Harvestman's Lair and The Spider's Heart is still canon. If they are, my opinions can be seen here. -- Konig/talk 20:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- Like Konig said, there isn't really an idea of "opposites" concerning the gods. There have apparently been more "evil" gods, but they were not necessarily the opposite of any one god. Karate
Jesus 20:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- If Arachnia is still canon, that would give Kormir two evil counterparts, breaking the symmetry (and if she isn't canon, Abaddon would still canonically have a predecessor who may or may not have been evil). --
Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
- If Arachnia is still canon, that would give Kormir two evil counterparts, breaking the symmetry (and if she isn't canon, Abaddon would still canonically have a predecessor who may or may not have been evil). --
- Like Konig said, there isn't really an idea of "opposites" concerning the gods. There have apparently been more "evil" gods, but they were not necessarily the opposite of any one god. Karate
- The idea of opposites is flawed at Abaddon. He didn't have an opposite, just a predecessor and a successor. Menzies is also not a god, his status in deity-ness is unknown, just being a half-brother of Balthazar. I think he is a spirit, personally. Though the "six evil gods" could hold some value - depending on if the Harvestman's Lair and The Spider's Heart is still canon. If they are, my opinions can be seen here. -- Konig/talk 20:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Wrapping up?
I'd like to see the Dhuum/Abadon/Menzies storyline wrapped up before the new big bad guys come about in GW2. Maybe that's strange, but what does anyone else think? Finish the whole thing with the bad guys we have now before moving on, or leave them to obscurity?~~~~ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.161.123.22 (talk).
- I would love to see Dhuum be released every once in a while, if not several times per week. My love-meter for anet could reach abnormal levels. Yseron - 81.251.23.143 20:09, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Reaper of the Labrynth
"Dhuum? Yes, that is one of his many names. He is also known as Nerf Inevitable. The ender of UWSC, The Nerf at the Edge of Darkness... Some call him the Omega Nerf... The Nerf in the Void... The Final Nerf..." Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә
ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)- Your joke lacks humor. I didn't even chuckle. I think you should stick to Nicholas. -- Konig/talk 04:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- ^ King Neoterikos 20:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Woops! The internet isn't here just to please you. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Woops! The internet isn't here just to please you. -- Konig/talk 20:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Nice joke actually. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Reflect (talk).
- No man. Konig, the almighty and self-important Guild Wars historian expresses disdain for the joke, therefore it cannot be "nice" or "good" or any related adjective. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:30, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
- Why do people call me almighty and self-important and the like? It's because people say that I'm better than I am, that makes others think I think of myself than that. Which is far from truth. I dislike the joke, but others will find it funny. My second comment was just showing how your comment can be tossed right back at you. Some of your Nicholas jokes are funny - though it got old fast. A note to everyone: Please stop saying that I view myself highly! I very well do not. -- Konig/talk 22:20, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
- +1 to the omega nerf! (that was quite funny)Headchopperz 23:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Why do people call me almighty and self-important and the like? It's because people say that I'm better than I am, that makes others think I think of myself than that. Which is far from truth. I dislike the joke, but others will find it funny. My second comment was just showing how your comment can be tossed right back at you. Some of your Nicholas jokes are funny - though it got old fast. A note to everyone: Please stop saying that I view myself highly! I very well do not. -- Konig/talk 22:20, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
- Woops! The internet isn't here just to please you. -- Konig/talk 20:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Woops! The internet isn't here just to please you. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә
[edit] Dhuum = Arachnia?
Or at least, perhaps, they're related in some way? Dhuum has an army of Terror and Tortureweb Dryders. Dryders are spiders. Dhuum is a god. Arachnia is a spider. Arachnia was a god. Blah? 24.12.37.0 19:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Arachnia is, if canon, dead. Dhuum is very much alive. I personally think they are of the same previous pantheon - assuming The Spider's Heart and Harvestman's Lair are canon. The origin of the Dryders confuse me, to be honest. They serve Dhuum at points, yet they are also native to the Spawning Pools. -- Konig/talk 20:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Define "native". The skeletons in the Underworld are definately controlled by Dhuum, and they are in the Underworld too. Paddymew 19:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- The Dryders appear to be created in the Spawning Pools (according to the Reaper there, the Spawning Pools is the origin of all of the most horrific and evil creatures) - also, when the Underworld is "under control" - thus implying only native creatures remain - Dryders are still in the Spawning Pools. Being in the Underworld doesn't mean they are native there, and I never did say that. Excluding the Skeletons of Dhuum, Dhuum's servants seem to be nothing in a whole (unlike Abaddon and Menzies with the Margonites/Shadow Army respectively), but instead portions of factions - some Dryders, some Banished Dream Riders, some Grasping Darknesses, some Torment Demons, some Grasps of Insanity(?), and some Aatxes. Never all of a group. -- Konig/talk 21:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Dhuum was the god of death, and, presumably, owner of the Underworld, before Grenth. Abaddon has something else than just Margonites - the torment creatures - and he controls all of both factions, yes. But which dryders, banished dream riders, grasping darknesses and so on, can you positively outline as not being under Dhuum's control? Paddymew 22:34, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Firstly, on the torment creatures - all of the Emissaries of Dhuum, which obviously work for Dhuum, are torment creatures. So Abaddon doesn't control all of those. As for them not being under Dhuum's control... Reaper of the Chaos Planes says that spirits without valor or redemption head there - and the only spirits there are Wailing Lords and Banished Dream Riders - Dryders exist in Tyria as well, where Dhuum shows no control, and based on the dialogue of Terrorweb Queen, those who follow Dhuum (or at least those which attack the Underworld) are of just one brood - Grasping Darknesses cannot be positively shown to not be, except that they are there during the first two Halloween Quests - which take place after the Underworld has been under control (same goes for the Dryders, which are in large numbers). Tell me, if Dryders were all followers of Dhuum, would they let the Reaper of the Spawning Pools reign free when they outnumber him about 40 to 1? Yet, they don't attack him in said quests. Grasping Darknesses are in smaller numbers, so it is possible that they do all follow Dhuum - however, if they followed Dhuum, why would they let an emissary of Thorn (their rival) pass? -- Konig/talk 00:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Maybe the Mad King is so powerful that he can grant his agents the ability to force their enemies to obey. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:09, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- ZOMG MAD KING THORN IS THE LICH ~Shard
03:11, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- But the Lich never shared the Scepter of Orr. So it can't be him. --Kyoshi 03:41, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- I could be wrong, but I recall all Torment Creatures are originally Dhuum's and all Terrorwebs are originally Dhuum's or are currently aligned with him. The skeletons of dhuum are his as well. Everything else belongs to others. Anything except terrorwebs that you find in ToPK, for example, is Menzies', the Margonites and Titans belong to Abaddon, and the Shadow Army is obviously Menzies'. From what I gather, the other monsters lurking around the UW are "natives," akin to the abnormally hostile wildlife floating around Tyria. –Jette
03:56, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- IIRC the only torment creatures known to be affiliated with Dhuum are the emissaries. Terrorweb Dryders are stated to be followers of Dhuum in the Forgotten Wardens' Dhuum Battle dialogue. Aurus Trevess states that "The followers of Dhuum have gathered here under the command of The Fury" when describing the Foundry of Failed Creations, but doesn't say any specific creatures within the Foundry are or aren't followers of Dhuum. The four Riders of Dhuum are stated to be followers of Dhuum in the quest dialogue for The Four Horsemen. The Gate of Pain mission dialogue establishes that Tortureweb Dryders serve Dhuum. Regular Banished Dream Riders are implied to be followers of Dhuum due to their similarity to the Fury and the Riders of Dhuum. As for the Tomb of Primeval Kings, I don't think any of the monsters in there have been explicitly linked to Abaddon, Dhuum or Menzies, IIRC we just know that all three were involved in the invasion, the Darknesses are presumed to be followers of Menzies because the Darknesses in the Ravenheart Gloom are followers of Menzies, the Terrorweb Dryders are presumed to be followers of Dhuum because the Terorweb and Tortureweb Dryders in the Realm of Torment have been established to be followers of Dhuum and the Banished Dream Riders are presumed to be followers of Dhuum because the Riders of Dhuum have been established to be followers of Dhuum. As for the question of which creatures are native to the Underworld, Dhuum ruled the Underworld before Grenth, so it's possible that the dryders, skeletons and dream riders are also Underworld natives. It's also possible that Arachnia originally created the Dryders, and that they started following Dhuum after Arachnia was overthrown (assuming Arachnia's canon). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- IIRC the only torment creatures known to be affiliated with Dhuum are the emissaries. Terrorweb Dryders are stated to be followers of Dhuum in the Forgotten Wardens' Dhuum Battle dialogue. Aurus Trevess states that "The followers of Dhuum have gathered here under the command of The Fury" when describing the Foundry of Failed Creations, but doesn't say any specific creatures within the Foundry are or aren't followers of Dhuum. The four Riders of Dhuum are stated to be followers of Dhuum in the quest dialogue for The Four Horsemen. The Gate of Pain mission dialogue establishes that Tortureweb Dryders serve Dhuum. Regular Banished Dream Riders are implied to be followers of Dhuum due to their similarity to the Fury and the Riders of Dhuum. As for the Tomb of Primeval Kings, I don't think any of the monsters in there have been explicitly linked to Abaddon, Dhuum or Menzies, IIRC we just know that all three were involved in the invasion, the Darknesses are presumed to be followers of Menzies because the Darknesses in the Ravenheart Gloom are followers of Menzies, the Terrorweb Dryders are presumed to be followers of Dhuum because the Terorweb and Tortureweb Dryders in the Realm of Torment have been established to be followers of Dhuum and the Banished Dream Riders are presumed to be followers of Dhuum because the Riders of Dhuum have been established to be followers of Dhuum. As for the question of which creatures are native to the Underworld, Dhuum ruled the Underworld before Grenth, so it's possible that the dryders, skeletons and dream riders are also Underworld natives. It's also possible that Arachnia originally created the Dryders, and that they started following Dhuum after Arachnia was overthrown (assuming Arachnia's canon). --
- I could be wrong, but I recall all Torment Creatures are originally Dhuum's and all Terrorwebs are originally Dhuum's or are currently aligned with him. The skeletons of dhuum are his as well. Everything else belongs to others. Anything except terrorwebs that you find in ToPK, for example, is Menzies', the Margonites and Titans belong to Abaddon, and the Shadow Army is obviously Menzies'. From what I gather, the other monsters lurking around the UW are "natives," akin to the abnormally hostile wildlife floating around Tyria. –Jette
- But the Lich never shared the Scepter of Orr. So it can't be him. --Kyoshi 03:41, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- ZOMG MAD KING THORN IS THE LICH ~Shard
- Maybe the Mad King is so powerful that he can grant his agents the ability to force their enemies to obey. --
- Firstly, on the torment creatures - all of the Emissaries of Dhuum, which obviously work for Dhuum, are torment creatures. So Abaddon doesn't control all of those. As for them not being under Dhuum's control... Reaper of the Chaos Planes says that spirits without valor or redemption head there - and the only spirits there are Wailing Lords and Banished Dream Riders - Dryders exist in Tyria as well, where Dhuum shows no control, and based on the dialogue of Terrorweb Queen, those who follow Dhuum (or at least those which attack the Underworld) are of just one brood - Grasping Darknesses cannot be positively shown to not be, except that they are there during the first two Halloween Quests - which take place after the Underworld has been under control (same goes for the Dryders, which are in large numbers). Tell me, if Dryders were all followers of Dhuum, would they let the Reaper of the Spawning Pools reign free when they outnumber him about 40 to 1? Yet, they don't attack him in said quests. Grasping Darknesses are in smaller numbers, so it is possible that they do all follow Dhuum - however, if they followed Dhuum, why would they let an emissary of Thorn (their rival) pass? -- Konig/talk 00:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Dhuum was the god of death, and, presumably, owner of the Underworld, before Grenth. Abaddon has something else than just Margonites - the torment creatures - and he controls all of both factions, yes. But which dryders, banished dream riders, grasping darknesses and so on, can you positively outline as not being under Dhuum's control? Paddymew 22:34, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- The Dryders appear to be created in the Spawning Pools (according to the Reaper there, the Spawning Pools is the origin of all of the most horrific and evil creatures) - also, when the Underworld is "under control" - thus implying only native creatures remain - Dryders are still in the Spawning Pools. Being in the Underworld doesn't mean they are native there, and I never did say that. Excluding the Skeletons of Dhuum, Dhuum's servants seem to be nothing in a whole (unlike Abaddon and Menzies with the Margonites/Shadow Army respectively), but instead portions of factions - some Dryders, some Banished Dream Riders, some Grasping Darknesses, some Torment Demons, some Grasps of Insanity(?), and some Aatxes. Never all of a group. -- Konig/talk 21:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Define "native". The skeletons in the Underworld are definately controlled by Dhuum, and they are in the Underworld too. Paddymew 19:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
(Reset indent)
- If I'm correct, the 4 lords in DoA are servants of mallyx as said in the quest dialog of mallyx the unyielding "Mallyx the Unyielding has four great servants...the General, the Fury, the Greater Darkness, and the Dreadspawn Maw". If you look on the page of Mallyx himself it states that he is a margonite "Mallyx the Unyielding is a powerful Margonite overlord who rules over the Domain of Anguish". And as we all know the margonites are servants of abaddon. That would make the Fury a servant of Abaddon and not a servant of Dhuum, which kills your theory of the banished dream riders as they have similarities with servants of both Dhuum and Abaddon. As you said yourself: "The followers of Dhuum have gathered here under the command of The Fury" which doesnt necessarily mean that the Fury is a follower of Dhuum, it's more like Dhuum "lending" his servants to the Fury and therefor to Abaddon aswell (the forgotten wardens insinuate an sort of alliance between Abaddon and Dhuum in their "Dhuum battle" bounty.Class 22:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Or it could just mean that they are currently under Mallyx's command and want him to overthrow Kormir. I'm not claiming that there is conclusive proof that the Fury, the Dream Riders or the mesmer Guardians of Komalie are followers of Dhuum, I'm merely claiming that there is evidence which implies that this could be the case. The Fury could be working for Mallyx because it serves Dhuum's goals, or could've originally served Dhuum but switched allegiances, or, as you theorize, he could've originally served Abaddon and started working for Mallyx, Abaddon's most powerful follower after Kormir overthrew him. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- It sounds reasonable that The Fury has joined forces with the last remaining demonic forces of Abaddon. I mean, honestly, the servants of two evil gods that don't form an alliance would be strange. Dhuum is (was?) trapped, and Abaddon had just been destroyed (Or scattered. (Or absorbed.)). Why wouldn't the only powerful evil demons left band together? Paddymew 07:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Rivalries. Mutual hatreds. Etc. (not that I am saying that either side had those) --
RIDDLE 08:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Exactly, the two sides would have neither when facing a common foe. Paddymew 12:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- I love this lore-digging :) --Arduin
12:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- I bet annet are reading this atm to write more lore, or even better, to finish programming the quest, "I still dont know what powers we shall give Dhumm", "I know lets just check wiki discussion pages" lol. Headchopperz 23:55, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- I love this lore-digging :) --Arduin
- Exactly, the two sides would have neither when facing a common foe. Paddymew 12:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Rivalries. Mutual hatreds. Etc. (not that I am saying that either side had those) --
- It sounds reasonable that The Fury has joined forces with the last remaining demonic forces of Abaddon. I mean, honestly, the servants of two evil gods that don't form an alliance would be strange. Dhuum is (was?) trapped, and Abaddon had just been destroyed (Or scattered. (Or absorbed.)). Why wouldn't the only powerful evil demons left band together? Paddymew 07:57, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
- Or it could just mean that they are currently under Mallyx's command and want him to overthrow Kormir. I'm not claiming that there is conclusive proof that the Fury, the Dream Riders or the mesmer Guardians of Komalie are followers of Dhuum, I'm merely claiming that there is evidence which implies that this could be the case. The Fury could be working for Mallyx because it serves Dhuum's goals, or could've originally served Dhuum but switched allegiances, or, as you theorize, he could've originally served Abaddon and started working for Mallyx, Abaddon's most powerful follower after Kormir overthrew him. --
(Reset indent)
- *whistles* I go away for a weekend for a funeral and I come back to some nice conversation. Let's see here... First of all, I don't think we should consider all of a group just because some are known to follow Dhuum.
- On the invasion of the TotPK, it would appear that the forces were of Dhuum that were led by Menzies' stronger "generals" - even beyond the Darknesses being in Ravenheart Gloom, they go along with the idea of shadows and darkness. However, the Grasps Scythes/Wrathful Storms, Riders, Chaos Wurms, and Dryders do not show any link to Menzies - but some (specifically Riders and Dryders) do show a link elsewhere to Dhuum, so it is possible that not just those two, but the others as well, serve Dhuum (or Dhuum's generals, as it may be that Dhuum was out of contact completely).
- On Mallyx and his 4 generals - I'd agree with Ecker that they were just following the biggest badie at the time. Jadoth lost his god, so he went to the strongest servant of said god - the Greater Darkness and the Shadow Army was probably in the area already due to the idea of darkness in the area (it seems that they have been there for a while, and Menzies himself could be in an unexplorable portion of the "endless" plain) - Dreadspawn Maw might not have been a servant or general and more of a stationary demon spawner that was used by Menzies, Abaddon, and Dhuum's forces (and later by Mallyx) - and for the Fury, how I see it, would be the thought process of "if I help a god (Abaddon) break free, then the god could help my god (Dhuum) rise again" which turned to "if I can help someone become a god (Mallyx), then he could help me and my god (Dhuum)" or even "before Mallyx takes Kormir's power, I'll take it for myself" - which could even be the thought process of Mallyx's other allies. In other words, while the term servant was used, they were more of an alliance that had Mallyx as their leader - thus, they served (therefore are servants) Mallyx, but they didn't fully align themselves to him (thus, not forgetting their previous leaders).
- On the Dream Riders specifically, I don't think that all of them in the Chaos Plains/Planes are followers of Dhuum. It could be just those which spawned the Mindflay Spectres (that doesn't really seem like a common thing of spirits, to be honest...). Or it could just be that they do serve Dhuum, but not so much as they must be followers, but more that they want to because of their lack of valor - i.e., "new" spirits which head to the area do not serve Dhuum, so not all of them do, but after a while, the chances of them serving Dhuum rise. Appearance of the Four Horsemen and the Fury has nothing to do with the other riders, to be honest. Maybe it was that those five are very strong "spirits with no valor or redemption" and are some of the most original of the spirits to follow Dhuum - doesn't mean all dream riders are followers of Dhuum.
- Finally, on the Dryders. It is undenyable that some follow Dhuum. But all? I find that skeptical. For the Margonites, it's rare for them not to follow Abaddon/Mallyx (only 2 didn't, to our knowledge), just as it would be weird for Shiro'ken and Afflicted not to follow Shiro, or Shadow Army to not follow Menzies. However, due to there being Dryders in the Ring of Fire and the Northern/Far Shiverpeaks, that means that like the Wind Rider race, they are in multiple realms of existence (Rift/Realms of the Gods+Tyria). By that and the dialogue of the Reaper of the Spawning Pools in both normal and quest dialogue - I think that there are multiple broods of Terrorweb Dryders (and any other kind of Dryder), and only some broods follow Dhuum. -- Konig/talk 03:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
