Talk:Dishonorable

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Contents 1 Discussion 2 Priorities? Make PvP good, *then* worry about sportsmanship 3 False information/accusations? 4 Hex? 5 Leaving after losing 6 Disabling Entering ANY PVP MISSION (Including HA, GvG and TA) 7 I Propose... 8 Like, wth 9 Bug 10 Logic 11 anomaly with snowball fights? 12 Hands Down Most Illogical Update Ever 13 My two cents 14 Proposed Changes. 15 AB resign 16 Dishonour Point Accumulation 17 Enter Match before Over 18 Useless Update 19 PvE

[edit] Discussion

Ok, I've never left a round until all my teammates are dead. Yet, I've received dishonorable. I like the dishonorable thing, Think it has been working out wonderfully. I just figure I should be able to leave when my whole team is dead WITHOUT becomeing dishonorable, I mean what, am I supposed to stick around so my opponents can gloat over my death? --Kyle van der Meer 04:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

This rule is stupid because if your computer crashes ten times while playing guildwars over the expance of time you end up getting the hex. It just gives crybabies some freedom. It is not worth preventing people that dont want to do pvp for fun at the expense of people leaving for legitimate reasons.

In response to the reply below this one;

I love it, this stops the nice guys like you, that leave at the beginning of every round, because they dont like the team, or they see theyr not gonna win, and force the people that DO want to play just for fun to leave aswell.

Thank you arenanet. I laugh at all you crybaby's whining about this.

-Kynik Nikitashi

I get pretty tired of this argument. I shouldn't have to play if my team has 3 monks on it. I shouldn't have to monk for a team consisting of 2 wamos and a dervish using power shot. I shouldn't have to stick around to watch the shadow form idiot run around the map for 8 minutes just to avoid 10 minutes of dishonor. Now, the favorite response people give is "It's random! Deal with it or go to TA." This logic is fun. If you get a leaver, that's random too! Don't like leavers? YOU go to TA and make a team, and that way nobody will quit on you.

    In response to the reply above this one;
    You dont understand, just because it is a random arena, does not mean it gives people the
    right to just leave as they see fit.Arena's are meant to just give normal random teams,
    a chance at pvping.If you get a team with 3 monks in it, so be it, play the round anyway
    lest it is for the 1 or 2 faction kills, but saying that you have the right to leave,
    makes no sense at all.Why would pre-emptive leaving in a random arena be allowed, but 
    looked down upon in TA? -Kynik Nikitashi 

I laugh at all you crybaby's [sic] whining about this in the first place, which is why this retarded update ever came about. Pluto 15:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't mind the system (as I almost never leave unless teamed with a runner), although I think it would be better if the time between after a match is over and the next match begins should be open to allow people to leave without gaining points. That way if you are put in the situation where you are being called to GvG and for some reason have 5 points already, you only have to wait for the current match to end. And maybe add in something where if 75% of the team /resigns, you are also free to leave without penalty. --Thervold 15:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I also like this update; players just leaving wasn't fun, and it kinda killed the fun. The only thing that I do wish was slightly changed was that, if the majority of the team has resigned at one minute, I don't like feeling stuck there while the last person takes so long to die. It thankfully isn't an issue much anymore; maybe the behavior will die out as the players learn there's nothing to be gained from running like that. I do like that I get a free "I really can't stand this team" chance to leave, and if I had two teams that bad, I probably wouldn't play PvP for a while anymore anyway.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

---

Seriously. What the F%#@ were they thinking at the Anet offices? This is, hands down, the worst update I have ever seen them release. I mean, don't get me wrong. I tend to think the game is pretty well balanced, and Anet has done some good pvp updates with tournaments and the pvp item creation screen. But this dishonor system is terrible, in concept and execution. The system now doesn't let you leave for any reason. It's far too unforgiving. Now, if my guild needs me to go GvG, I can't drop out of my RA match or else I get dishonor points and can't GvG anyway. I can't even leave after the match, because the flawed implementation of the system gives you dishonor points for that too. Now, if I have a team-mate that just runs around for 8 minutes after the rest of us have died with a shadow form gimmick build, I have to sit it out or get dishonor points, even though we lost anyway. They system needs to either be removed, or seriously revamped. Pluto 00:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

You shouldn't be leaving anyways. You can leave once the timer to return back to the outpost has triggered. You only get Dishonorable if you get 10 points, leaving one match will not affect your GvG play. Calm down. - Drago 00:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

QQ moar -FireFox 00:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Not true, if you leave once you do not get dishonourable status as you only get 5 of the required 10 points, so if your intentions were honourable, in that you only left for a one off thing, you will not get an effect, that only lasts 10 minutes anyway. I don't know many gvg's that get started that quickly! --Lemming 00:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The match won't last more than 12 minutes, at most, and is often over in less than 5. Every GvG team I know of sits around discussing skills and strategies for several minutes before each match. Leaving just one won't kill you, and if you already have 5 dishonor, just waiting it out works fine. I like this patch; I got tired of people leaving immediately at the start of a match.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

this update it is made of fail and aids --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:200.180.9.160 .

Striked useless and immature comment. - Drago 01:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Ummm how is this bad... this will stop leechers at apsenwood.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.9.231.108 (talk • contribs) 04:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC).

The /Report command does not appear to be working. It would be a lot more useful if there was some kind of indicator... but I've /reported the same people leeching in Fort Aspenwood Kurzick side, four games in a row (others have reported as well) Craw 02:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

This is the most retarded update ANet has done yet. They clearly did not think this completely through and just listen to all the nubby complainers on their talk pages. If my team obviously sucks, i dont wanna wait for us all to die and go back. If one person decides to go for a small jog in a match, I have to watch it. If most of us are dead and my res sig is gone, I have to wait until I die to go back. If it's 10 to 0 in the kill count, I have to stay and watch them win. When the counter is going down for me to be taken back, I have to stay for it. If I already have 5 points on me and i wanna Gvg, I have to wait until I get out. If it is obvious that no one will win, I have to wait 8-12 mins till someone loses. If I get there and 1's a leech and 1 lags out, I have to stay and die. This report button is stupid too because you KNOW that it will be totally abused just like it is in Runescape. I think that the /report thing should be reworked, and the dishonorable hex should be completely abandoned. If someone leaves before a timer, they should be replaced. If someone leaves during a match, there is a reason for it whether it be noobs on the team, or a very long match or some stupid runner trying to get one more match win. And the thing ppl are saying is that it is to help new people learn to play but really shouldn't that be zaishen challenge/elites job? It should be the training ground, it should help them with skill combining, the purpose of the professions and TEACH them how to play, not have it shoved down their throats like many PvPers will because they don't have the time. I relize that it does give you EXP in PvP but honestly it wont help them. --72.74.237.104 03:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Tee-hee, these complainers give me giggles =) Best update for a while. For those that were confused about /report not working, the notes specify that they are testing /report this weekend, and only this weekend, its going to be enabled friday, disabled by monday. Then once they pour through the logs they'll prolly decide whether or not it was useful, or too highly abused. I have high hopes tho =) 69.235.26.201 04:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

And these "I Only Ra and Ab" People that ruined RA for everyone else make me wanna rip my hair out.--72.74.237.104 05:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how it was ruined. You can still play just fine, unless you want to join games and leave. I get tired of people who say "OMG you suck n00b" and leaving at the very start.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

One of the best updates ever, this will enchance the PvP system for begginers | Berekän 06:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

And you wonder why I hate this update... (see above) Readem 08:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

What if your being picked on by someone and they report you becouse you delay leaving the gates for a sec or 2, or your build isnt satisfyiying to them.. i've been reported for these reasons and got it, how do i appeal it and got the fucks that reported me reported?

Just wait the extra 2 seconds so you don't get dishonorable. 2 seconds isn't going to screw up your entire life, or any of it for that matter. — ク Eloc 貢 07:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Priorities? Make PvP good, *then* worry about sportsmanship

/signed with OP, this is one of the most brainless updates ever implemented. It barely solves the problem of leechers/abusive players (usually only dickwads stop to report someone, and dickwads are the last people on earth you want to give the /report feature to), and promotes a very unhealthy atmosphere of arbitrary restriction.
At the very least, this effect should be removed from Guild Battles and Heroes' Ascent (it simply isn't a problem in GvG, is rarely a problem in HA, and in the rare HA cases where problems arise, both teams contribute equally to the ragefest of poor sportsmanship.) If you wanted this system to make any sense at all (because right now, it doesn't), AB should be affected as well (most of the raging goes on in RA and AB, so why does AB get random immunity?)
I know that Anet doesn't stop to listen to PvP players, and this is just the latest bit of proof. Anet's got a lot of work to do to make PvP good again (reworking the entire point of HB to promote skilled play and varied builds, removing alliance battle maps from HA, and major skill balancing), and wasting their time on carebear shit like this is why people leave Guild Wars. You've got terrible issues with priority when stuff like this comes out and deadly paradox and paragons are allowed to take a crap all over the meta for months. Fix the things that need fixing, then tweak the carebear stuff that doesn't actually make PvP better. -Auron 07:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

They rarely (never) make any meaningful changes to PvP. I don't know who you are kidding, Auron. They just do shit like this, and make HA 6 vs 6. Readem 09:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

your suppost to make the best of am RA team, not leave until you get your precious monk...... and instead of freaking about dishonor, you could just reccomend that RA gets a timer, then runners are out of luck.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.61.163.146 (talk • contribs) 13:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC).

I think 8 minutes is a long timer, but I've thankfully not had many matches go that long (only a very few). 12 seems really long for the one involving the priest. Other than that, I really like this change.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Arenanet, thank you so much for doing this lol.. I just left a battle early because we lost and i got this hex, well and truely happy to see it regardless of the fact i cant enter pvp for a while but...EXCELLeNT nonetheless. This noob above me clearly has issues, rantin an ravin, ha is all i have to say.thx and cheerio Although i do have one thing to mention, i dont think using it in AB is fair, based on the fact that if you have lets say 3 of the regular leeches that circulate you know you dont stand a chance. Something to think about possibly. I have been taking screenshots of regular leeches lately and i have put on the screenshot a trusted website showing the correct time and date which proves these guys do it all day. Im still amassing evidence at the moment but will send in my portfolio as soon as the evidence becomes...damning. if anyone from anet would like to contact me to let me know whether this is a good or bad idea feel free to email me at p.lofty@hotmail.com

Yeh auron noob less plx — Skakid9090 02:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Horrible update, forces people to have to deal with the garbage players that haven't even pve'd enough to understand how to use their skillbar. so after a match if my team has lost and the return to outpost counter apears if i leave do i get points cause i always leave for highest dist to prevent 10 minutes of lag.

One solution I found that works really well when you have 3 leechers is to open the doors for the Luxons. Even if they kill you, the game still ends very fast.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you can even say that now. I haven't seen a leecher there for about a week! As far as I can see, the system is working as intended there. On a side note, anyone who leaves guild wars will leave based on their own issues. It's exactly what happened when farming got its big change, people were too lazy and unwilling to adapt. I say, nail the damned system to the wall and frame it! :) Worry about good sportsmanship... later? yeah, let's cater to trollers, ragequitters, noob-haters and whammos and let arenanet fulfill their needs first, then we'll come back to this, (a fun game that would turn out to be.) I mean, good sportsmanship only makes up HALF of the game, and people have been wanting a change like this since PvP was first introduced, mustn't be that important...(Terra Xin 15:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC))

Quit your bitching all of you, I've noticed far fewer leechers and quitters since this was implemented. Leaving just because you're losing slightly is just yellow bellied cowardice, I've seen plenty of battles turn around when the losing side played on regardless, got organised and won. Sometimes even in spite of leavers, and I make a point of telling them if that happens. --138.38.149.248 16:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] False information/accusations?

It says on the updates page that AB is affected by the dishonour system, and that Guild Battles and HA are excluded. Until someone provides evidence or sources where they got the information otherwise, I'm going to remove the note and it will need to stay removed until a link has been attached to it. If the case is true, then the dishonour page needs to have a 'bug' tag on. People are jumping to conclusions and I'd like to avoid the arguments until we get the right information, thanks. :) (Terra Xin 10:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC))

I added it because when I went and got Dishonorable for experiencing it, it went away when I entered the AB area and joined a match. I guess that this wasn't intended, and Dishonorable effects AB now as well. So it was accurate when I added it, but was quickly made inaccurate. Yukiko 01:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Where does it say that GvG and HA are excluded? I'm reading the line that says "While affected by this status, no characters present on that account may enter any PvP missions." HA and GvG are counted as missions when you try to enter them. -Auron 10:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh I see. But the only way you can get dishonoured in the first place is if you do such things in RA, AB or HA. I have no idea why someone would get themselves dishonoured knowing that they may need to GvG, TA or HA later on. Should I re-word the note, because the original one was misleading?(Terra Xin 11:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC))

dont you find it awesome? with this very smart update, decent-good-godly players (players that, we all know, usually do gvg) wont bother going in ra to waste some time when waiting for the other players to gvg. ra without leaving = very bad --87.10.160.222 18:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I missed your point. You're saying that it takes 10 minutes to assemble a GvG team? That would be a miracle... (Terra Xin 00:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

If your team is barely organized, each one will have their role, their pvp character ready or at least with eq+build template saved. basically, yes, it takes less then 10 mins to start gvg. specially if it's planned or stuff like that. --82.59.133.12 11:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Then people wouldn't be RAing 10 minutes beforehand, if it was planned. I still don't see the point. (Terra Xin 21:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

Buy some eyes then. Readem 21:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

If it takes less than 10 minutes for your GvG to start, I'm not sure why you'd do random arenas to kill time; chatting with guildies is just as fun. And if it takes more than 10 minutes to start, then I don't see how waiting in RA for people to die is killing you.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't need eyes if there wasn't a point to see. Buy reading lessons, please. (Terra Xin 00:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Hex?

O.o? Can you shatter it/get boosts from "while hexed" mods? if so, this system will be great for pve! *edit* also is anet on crack? --Lou-Saydus 18:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hex only appears in PvP outposts, and can't be seen anywhere else. Also, please, try to explain in greater detail, your disdain for the new system....are you mad because you can't leech or ragequit? - Drago 22:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Well first off I do neither of those things to begin with. This system is just idiotic, far too easily abused. If random people can deem you "dishonorable" for what ever reason they want, guilds will simply make a key member of another guild "dishonorable" at opertune times(during gvg). All you have to do is report them and give them 2 ticks. Get 5 people to do it and you can gvg in peace and not worry about an opposing build. And I think you should read the GWW:NPA because you are in direct violation of it. Now unless I've misunderstood, this just seems to make pvp very subjective to what the crowd things you should pvp like. If they are tired of your build owning theirs, they just get a few friends to report you and kick you out of pvp while they have their fun and an hr later when they are done. You can come back. The whole idea is just way too nazi to begin with, instead of forcing people to do something, they should punish them in other ways. To make leeches ineffect simply add code that says if you don't move for (x) rounds replace them with an npc that has the same skills + ai to do their job. I just really disagree with the way anet is handling policy lately, I guess that's why I've quit. --Lou-Saydus 23:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

If you read the notes, that doesn't work if you do it to the other team... (Terra Xin 00:01, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

Lou-Saydus; Drago didn't violate NPA, directly or otherwise. Can you point out where he personally attacked you? -Auron 00:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

FYI, Leeching and Ragequitting are not personal attacks, they are common attitudes that occur within GuildWars, and his comment just outlined that. Try and not use the GWW:NPA against others falsely, that's just as bad as making a personal attack yourself. (Terra Xin 00:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

"are you mad because you can't leech or ragequit?" how exactly is that not a personal attack? I could stay here and argue with everyone but it's not worth the time. And did I report him? no. --Lou-Saydus 17:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Drago is bad at the game. He has made that quite clear on numerous occasions (Ensign incident lulz...). Ignore him. Readem 21:11, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I only posed a question. I never attacked anyone. Now, readem, you should read GWW:NPA. :) - Drago 21:20, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Saying you are bad at the game, and should be ignored, is not a personal attack. Readem 21:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how Drago did anything wrong; "you" is a plural, and there's a lot of people on here complaining about the post. I don't think it was directed at anyone in particular; I was actually surprised when I saw you respond to it. And I like the update.Miss Innocent 04:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I was responding to one of drago's comments. He was wrong. 209.189.130.127 21:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Saying you are bad at the game, and should be ignored, is not a personal attack.

Yes, it is. Drago 23:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yep, ok, that was fun for like 5 seconds, can we get back to the subject please? It looks like Lou has added a comment about whether or not it can be shattered or used as a technical buff for skills. That's actually worth testing, so I'll go try that out. (Terra Xin 15:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC))

OK, the hex is only visible when you are in an outpost for which the hex applies to. It isn't displayed anywhere else. And since you can't enter these missions with this hex on you anyway, it's actually impossible to test. I'm gonna expand on the notes... looks a little messy :S (Terra Xin 15:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC))

lol, this hex should have -1 health degen :D Image:User Horsedrowner avatar.jpg horsedrowner 20:00, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leaving after losing

I've seen a few people claiming they got dishonour by leaving after their team lost, I think there are one or two people on this talk page claiming that. Has anyone who isn't just whining about the update been able to replicate that? I've just left 10 matches in a row after my team lost, and before I was ported, and I didn't get dishonor status. There was at least 5seconds left each time too. EDIT ok someone else confirmed you don't get dishonour at http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Game_updates:September_2007#anti-leech 69.235.26.201 21:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I've never gained dishonor points by leaving when the match was over, either. I can only assume that it's a random bug (which would have to be tested further), or people are leaving when their team is about to lose, which happened a lot before the update. (Terra Xin 00:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC))

The system really needs to differentiate between leaving prematurely, and leaving once a team is still alive but has no chance of winning. People should not be penalized for leaving e.g. once two of the four members are dead and all res sigs have been used. --72.211.152.118 02:34, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

And it needs a way for you to defend your leaving (i.e., why waste your time in a group of three mending whammos or firestorm rangers?) It's dumb that you should get penalized for something like that. -Auron 03:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

No It's not, those mending firestorm wammos paid just as much as you did to play the game and can expect a 4 man party to stay just like you do. If you DO NOT want a random party then DO NOT enter a random arena. It's so simple, fantasti update, awesome update and the word "Dishonour" is VERY fitting. Amazing update. Anyone who argues the case that their desire to leave a match for something else in game is losing the argument from the start. Happiest I've been in a looooong time this update is so incredibly awesome. 58.110.140.189 03:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

If you don't like random people leaving because you're running firestorm on your bar, then "DO NOT enter a random arena." Your logic works both ways. -Auron 03:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Auron is right, there are times when leaving is justified. I personally will not leave a team until after a battle is finished unless i have a good reason. If youve ever seen the SF bots, full stance rangers, or 55s, you have seen a good reason. The time limits help slightly(no more 1 and a half hour RAs EVER again ^_^), but 12 minutes of sitting still staring at a perma-SF assassin is still time wasted that could have been better spent having fun. As to mending wammos and firestorm rangers...if anyone that runs one of those builds reaches this talk page, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn how the game mechanics work. Or check out pvx wiki. 69.40.244.195 03:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Leaving for an in-game reason is never justified and any penalties you get for it are deserved. If you leave once for one extenuating reason you are unlikely to get dishonoured and if you do 10 minutes isn't that severe. If you leave for a real life emergency then 10 mins isn't that severe. If you leave in a bad sportsmanlike behaviour you will likely accumulate many dishonour points and get more than a 10 min ban over time which is deserved. I played AFL in a local football league and we didnt have enough players from our age group we had to borrow from kids in primary school still. They played hard and worked hard and had a great time - we only won one game in the season but it was the best team I ever played on and we always had fun. Winning isn't everything and being fair to other people on your team is more important than getting upset about their build or play style. It's a random arena, people are allowed to run bad build, and sure you can argue you are allowed to leave, but the current game mechanic doesn't really support that does it?:P 58.110.140.189 04:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Please read what I said again. I never stated that leaving due to a bad team was justified.(before the bettle that is, after winning/losing, its obviously fine) I simply said that leaving is justified against such people as griefers wasting your time, or if the battle has absolutely no hope of progressing.(all healer team, etc.) 69.40.244.195 04:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

While I see the possibility of that increasing to abuse anti leaving mechanics, I don't beleive it is a big enough problem to counter the current changes. These changes have so many positive benefits which outwigh the negatives imho. Sure you get penailised for leaving once but it doesn't happen so often you will get a timer. 58.110.140.189 06:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I propose an additional mechanic: Anyone entering an RA match without a Resurrection Signet, Death Pact Signet, or at least 9 Fast Casting or Glyph of Sacrifice/Essence and either Flesh of My Flesh or Resurrection Chant, who does not also have at least 11 spec in Restoration, Healing, Divine Favor, or Protection, gets 5 dishonor points. --72.211.152.118 22:20, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Completely agreed. There needs to be a minimum level of quality if ANet has the bright idea to force us to stay in a match. Plus, nobody can complain about this as a restriction since the only people that ever go in without res is people with 6 or more attack skills. -Auron 04:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I've heard a little bit about people claiming their team lost, but it hasn't happened to me (I like to say "gg" and there's not time for much more than that).

If you actually have a legitimate reason for leaving a match, like... you have to go and hang out the washing, then becoming dishonorable is irrelevant, because you're going to be away for the duration of the hex anyway. I think that disconnecting due to random errors isn't a problem either. If it's serious, then you're better off staying away from the arenas for a while until you work out what the problem is. The issue doesn't affect the majority of people, only towards those who leave because they think their team sucks, which makes you wonder why they play RA in the first place. But as user:58.110.140.189 said, the benefits outweigh the negatives. (Terra Xin 04:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

Leaving a match that is effectively lost should not give dishonor. I propose the following modification to the system: no player gets dishonor for leaving if they have at least one more dead party member than the other team, and if their team has no unused res signets or "legitimate" hard res spells (death pact, fastcast res chant, etc -- rebirth rangers and stuff don't count.) --72.211.152.118 06:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that a match "effectively lost" may not have been lost to begin with. I have won matches where everyone but one on my team is alive (against 3-4 alive opponents), and also lost matches where the other team was only of 2 (against 4 with rez sig). I have also lost matches where we could have won if only the player that left earlier had fought for 3 more seconds instead of leaving the arena because x/y/z reason. If you start making exceptions for the DPS, then quickly this will scalate to a "you don't get dishonor points if your team doesn't have a monk, or has a wammo, or an air mage" or the like. --Fighterdoken 07:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not advocating letting people leave without fighting. I'm advocating letting people leave once the outcome of the combat is no longer in doubt. There are some drastic come-from-behind victories in RA, as you point out. Letting people leave once an arbitrary condition has been reached won't *require* anyone to leave, and those will still be around. Leaving based on team composition (something to be discouraged) is different than leaving based on a hopeless combat situation (something that saves time, especially when stupid tank builds are involved that take a while to die). --72.211.152.118 08:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

That's why the RA battles are timed. Lord Belar 22:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

So we're all required to sit around and wait for Dolyak warriors, 55's, derv-tanks, and other aberrations to die now? --72.211.152.118 07:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

For all of, what, 6min? Read a book or something, they don't deal any damage. Lord Belar 20:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

People who enter the random arena should accept the fact that their team will consist of people who tries out new builds, beastmasters, wammos, paragons, whatever. they should before they enter count that they have around 10 minutes to do it, u cant complain about things like people wanting you for gvg because its your own fault that you entered ra in the first place. --Cursed Angel 23:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Very well said. If you enter Random Arenas, there is no need to screw over your team and leave. It's your own fault you left & it's called random for a reason. Go to TA if you want to have a better looking team.--§ Eloc § 04:38, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm more annoyed by the fact that if you're a monk, and you're the only one left, and your res sig is used, clearly there is no chance of you winning, so why should you get dishonorable points for this? IMO dishonorable should only be awarded for leaving in like the first minute or 2, then it should be taken off.205.250.78.245 06:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disabling Entering ANY PVP MISSION (Including HA, GvG and TA)

Simply awesome catch there on A-Net's part. I'm suprised they thought this far ahead. What is a common reason people leave games? - to join their friends in one. You made a commitment to enter and stay so you should keep that commitment. This system wouldn't work if people were able to abuse the random arenas and then as soon as they pissed off enough people and got dishonour, they joined their team in GvG or HA - the cooldown SHOULD affect everything. To my knowledge the Dishonour points are ONLY given for actions which deserve it and so the cooldown should apply to anyone who gets a full 10 points. If you left for reasons out of the game which were unforseen the timer shouldn't matter to you that much - you are not at the computer so you don't care how long you've been dishonoured for. Reasons inside the game - should be affected. A time out is what these bad sportspeople need, not a free for all frenzy of abuse like we previously had. 58.110.140.189 03:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Quite frankly, this does not affect gvg. If you have ever attempted to assemble a gvg team, you should know that getting one together in 10 minutes would be extremely fast. Only planned gvgs are assembled quickly, and noone will enter a RA battle within 10 minutes of that time in case they get on a win streak that they would have to leave. As to HA, for more experienced or guild teams this will probably not have any effect because most regular HAers i know rarely RA anyway, and more random teams take just as long to set up as gvg. In theory, this can affect all types of pvp, but really only has an impact on those where dishonor can be gained. 69.40.244.195 03:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

"To my knowledge the Dishonour points are ONLY given for actions which deserve it" <- like leaving a RA match when your teammates are firestorm rangers and seeping wound sins? -Auron 03:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes Auron that comment was inspired by something you said. If you won't want to be in a random team with no control over other people's builds don't enter, if you leave because you don't like the Firestorm warriors then you (not being you specifically but you as in leavers in general) should be punished. 58.110.140.189 03:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

He inspired his own comment, nowai ;o? Readem 03:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Um not constructive and wrong, the comment he quoted was mine - not his, thus he inspired the comment I made which he quoted. 58.110.140.189 04:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Lrn2grammar. I don't think anyone can understand you. Readem 04:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Please keep your comments constructive and on topic, I have problem with my grammar and it has nothing to do with this conversation. These changes are limited to this weekend and thus it is important we constructively comment on the changes, and aspects relating to them, not technicalities of other user's posts. If you have a comment about the Dishonourable change keep it here, otherwise move elsewhere. Some people like the changes. 58.110.140.189 04:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

"if you leave because you don't like the Firestorm warriors then you should be punished." <-- what? If I leave because I actually want to get a glad point, I should be punished? I should be forced by game mechanics to sit and wait for minutes on end until the endure pain healing hands whammo or the E/D quintuple-enchant mystic regen retards die off? That's insane. I don't like wasting time - apparently you love having your time wasted, but it happens to be a pet peeve of mine.

I should not be forced (by game mechanics/punishment system) to monk for retards if I don't want to. It's random arenas, sure, but here's the point you missed; Guild Wars is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. If I don't have the time to set up a 30 minute TA team (or hours for GvG/HA), I shouldn't have to play with a bunch of dagger-wielding eles and other such bullshit. I should be able to play and have fun. Being forced to sit through groups of meleemancers and touch rangers who are bad at the game isn't fun. -Auron 08:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Games are supposed to be fun, not farmed for glad points. I hate Glad points and titles in general. They cause so much shit in the game it's not funny and what for? So you can feel some kind of inflated sense of achievement in an online game to make up for failure in real life? I join RA for a hassle free pvp opportunity, no need to organise my team or worry about opposing team builds. So many more skills become viable in a random environment and that's what makes it great. I don't join RA to see people leave 9/10 games. I don't think complaining this change makes it more difficult for you to leave is constructive anymore - the exhistence of this change proves leaving is not accepted and the entire design of many aspects of the change are directed at punishing leaving - stop arguing you want to leave, it's not accepted anymore. The change is fantastic and well though out, I'm only concerned about reporting abuse which I havn't heard of so far so fingers crossed. Good work A-Net. 58.110.140.189 14:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

So lemme get this straight... you want to be able to run whatever firestorm ranger-esque bar you want for the fun of it, but you want everyone who isn't purely having fun to suffer. Okay, I guess if I thought I was the only person in RA, I could support this policy too. Less ego-centrism please. -Auron 16:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

You don't play GW purely for fun? As you said, GW is a game, and it is supposed to be fun. If someone is having fun playing a mending whammo, so what? If you don't like it, don't play. Lord Belar 19:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

If everyone followed your "if you dont like it, dont play it" line of thought, nothing would ever change. If you don't like it, suggest improvements is far superior imo. — Skuld 20:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Suggesting improvements is a good thing, while criticizing people for the builds they run, or for having fun instead of simply farming for glad points is not. I was suggesting that if that form of PvP is not to his liking then he should play more organized PvP where he is less likely to encounter people running builds that he dislikes, instead of making fun of those who want amusement or PvP practice, not titles. Lord Belar 20:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I play Guild Wars for fun. A fun time in Guild Wars does not include being forced to party with glads defense whammos in RA. A fun time in RA is pretty much getting on a balanced team with decent offense (hammer war, ranger for hex interrupt, filler like mes, rit, or sin to round it out) and getting a glad point (which, in RA, takes a mere fraction of the time it would in TA). You want to be able to screw around (which is fun for you, and that's fine), but when I'm forced to endure your screwing around, it becomes not fun for me. What would be a way to balance it out, so that we can both have fun? -Auron 05:00, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

If you want a balanced team, RA is not the place to go. Get a guild that does TA, and it won't take 30 minutes to set up. You get to TA by playing RA, so expect to find people just learning how to pvp. Your idea of fun appears to be cheating the system to get meaningless titles at the expense of everyone else, and now you're upset because anet decided to stop you from exploiting RA. And seriously, if you don't like how badly someone plays, teach them how to do better instead of just whining about it here. Lord Belar 15:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

And your idea of fun is running bad builds at the expense of everyone else. Stupid argument to make when the logic works both ways.

Also, based on your comments, it's pretty safe to assume you've never tried to "teach them how to do better" - most of them, by far, don't want to learn, and will flame you incessantly if you try to teach them. -Auron 06:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent)Running bad builds at the expense of everyone else? At least I stay for the entire battle. Besides, you don't need a monk or a balanced team to get a glad point in RA. Try it sometime, just play a few RA games without leaving. Lord Belar 21:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

With the new system bad builds and bad teams happen on both sides of the fence. You do the best you can with what you have on your team maybe your bad team will be better than the other team. I have found with the new system that even a so-so group can get a glad point. This makes it more fun for the new players. If you lose the first battle then you go back to town and try again. With a so-so team you probably wouldn't win 10 in a row but you might win 5. I think this is a positive change for PvP. It may not be perfect but at least anet is trying to do something about a problem that people have been complaining about. Xitium 14:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Skuld you are free to suggest all the improvements you want but in a Random Arena nothing you suggest has the right to have any say over someone else's build. 58.110.141.174 06:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In english? I didn't quite catch that. -Auron 11:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Imo, dumbass RA noobs should be restricted to AB and PvE. Dishonrable sucks, if you hate leavers QQ and go back to PvE. Readem 21:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

This is simply an endless discussion between casual players and title grinders. The implementation of this system made RA more fun for the first group and not having this system made it more fun for the latter group. Considering Anet benefits most from keeping the game accessible to new players, most of whom will probably belong to the first group (at least in the beginning), it is only logical that they implemented this system and keep it like this.

Now for my personal opinion (and this concerns only RA and AB as those are the ones that have most to gain or lose by this system): - I'm not saying that I disagree completely with all those of you trying primarily to max out a title, but let's try to remember that changes implemented by Anet don't necessarily have to be focused solely on making it easier for you to max out titles. There are other things that need to be considered as well, a large part of which is making sure that the game stays fun. A large part of fun for me is in trying out new things in AB. I don't want to be the 13th in a dozen player running the same old *yawn* pvxwiki build. So I fiddle with builds almost continuously. Now 2 out of 3 times the builds I come up with are either completely crap or seriously flawed, but I need the unpredictability of a few AB matches to help me either improve the build or discard it completely. I don't mind if people on my side comment on my build or look at it askance. What I DO mind is if they leave in the middle of the match, ruining the chances of everyone on our side.

Now I completely agree there are special circumstances where leaving could be considered justifiable, for example with runners/griefers in RA or when you have a personal emergency. But when the last person on your team is running the last opponent in circles around the arena, does leaving really solve anything? Not really. What you need in a case like that is a completely different system aimed at preventing that sort of abuse, instead of "allowing" people to leave if it happens. Otherwise you're just avoiding the problem instead of dealing with it. Lastly, the idea of only wanting to play with balanced teams in RA doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Every team has a counter, but the fun thing about RA is that you don't need to worry about it, because neither you nor the opponent got to pick their team composition. One of the most enjoyable winning streaks I ever experienced was with a most impossible team consisting of 2 boon protection monks, 1 support paragon, and a warrior...at the start of the first match we sort of decided to just give it a swing...we ended up getting 9 consecutive wins, losing the 10th match only because we ended up facing a full sin team. Perhaps in the future they should just make 2 RA's: one for people who want a truly random team, and another for those who'd like GW to automatically select a balanced team and to weed out anyone not using a good build in advance... Liselle Morrow 17:21, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I Propose...

The following things be implimented to the dishonor system:

• Entering a battle without a res earns you 5 Dishonor

Points

• A team may report someone for griefing, ect. 55's, ridiculous Escape Rangers, lame Shadow Form Sins and more. Only two people on your team are required to report. Person gets dishonor and match ends.
• Someone entering with only one proffesion, gains dishonor points.
• Once 2+ Party Members are dead, you may leave without gaining dishonor.
• Unless all three individuals report you for leaving, it should not cause dishonor.

My personal favorite:

• If you are bad, and run Healing Breeze or mending on your bar, gtfo and gains auto ban. Would promote people being less bad. Readem 21:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

*Someone entering with only one proffesion, gains dishonor points. I had a good laugh about this one. Just no. Do you care to elaborate why you think that people should get dishonor points when entering RA (I'm not talking about TA) with only one profession? There are(/have been) plenty of builds that are quite effective with only using one profession. On the res, I tend to agree, although 5 points would be a bit harsh perhaps. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 21:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you think of one build, that isn't dramatically better with utilities? I tbh, can only think of Tommy's bar. Are you tommy? Fuck no. Readem 21:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Some dervish and monk builds don't need utility skills.205.250.78.245 06:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• Wonderful idea.
• I don't like the match ending, but otherwise yes.
• No, some builds run fine without a secondary.
• No, you're so close, just stop fighting if you obviously can't win.
• Make it two, like with griefing.
• Just make using mending give 5 dishonor points, and having over half of a warrior's bar be monk skills give 10.

Lord Belar 21:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Random Arenas is not about being dramatically better with your bar Readem. Have you ever tried to come up with a decent/good bar that uses only one profession? I'm just curious, I hope you will discuss with me, instead of throwing one-liners to my face. I have made numerous builds for mesmer and necromancer, without having any need for a secondary profession. And as a matter of fact: I had plenty of utility at my disposal, thank you very much. And I also am not pretending to be Tommy, I never said that. It's RA, not a PvP arena where you can synergize your skillbar with the other of your team. Not everyone running around with only 1 profession is a not-so-proficient player. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 22:11, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

So you enjoy advertising your lack of any self-heal/defense? If you are not carrying any Necro skills, run FoMF. Srsly. Readem 23:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

The single-profession thing is mostly a noob net (the vast majority of people without secondaries have no idea whats going on), but it isn't a guaranteed detector. I like what 72.211.152.118 said above; Anyone entering an RA match without a Resurrection Signet, Death Pact Signet, or at least 9 Fast Casting or Glyph of Sacrifice/Essence and either Flesh of My Flesh or Resurrection Chant, who does not also have at least 11 spec in Restoration, Healing, Divine Favor, or Protection, gets 5 dishonor points. That would encompass the res point Readem made and ensure that monks don't get dinged for not carrying a res (which is lol). -Auron 22:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there are quite a number of RA players that tend to have only a single profession and are new to the game. However, Readem's suggestion would be too harsh, as it would also dishonor people like myself, who find it attractive to think up builds where sometimes only one profession is required and effective. Anyways, I do like that suggestion of anon 72.211. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 22:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I guess at this rate we could just resume it in "Anyone playing a wammo gets 10 dishonor points. Anyone not playing with X o Y build gets 5 dishonor points. If your team looks like they will lose, or the other team looks like they win from the start, you can leave without dishonor points", which would pretty much leave RA as it was before the dishonor system was implemented.

Remember that is RA, the next step from the challenges that start teaching how PvP works here. Not everyone new will know at this point that they have to carry a rez for improved chances of winning, or that they shouldn't use X rez unless they meet Y condition, or that the skill that always works in PvE will have no use in PvP. RA is for learning all these things, and you need to leave room for people being (or pretending be) ignorant. Otherwise, you would just have a random-group TA level arena, and RA is not that.

You can't penalize ignorance in a place where you are supposed to still ignore many things, so no, no skill should be forced here, even basic ones as a rez signet. --Fighterdoken 22:51, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

There is a huge difference between carrying a top10 gvg bar and not having a res, and you're assuming that I want them to be the best in the game. The only thing stopping everyone from carrying a res is the idiots that have 8 attack skills, and they're the ones that need to learn how to play the most - forcing them to take a res isn't going to hurt anything. I never said that anyone without a "pre-approved Top 100 GvG Bar" gets dishonor points, just the people that don't bring a res. I don't expect them to be good; believe me, my minimum standards in RA are just that - minimum. Bringing a res is the least they could do. -Auron 23:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Just curious, Does anyone in the battle isles teach you that? That carrying a rez (and not any rez) is a must? I know that, as a PvE player, it took me several fights in RA to understand why a rez signet was better than the same old rez i used to cast when doing missions with my team; several fights that i would have been unable to fight had i received dishonor points from the start (and probably, wouldn't have understood anyways why i was getting them and would have just left RA).

An alternative i guess would be forcing all players to load a rez signet in RA, but you can't just start handing dishonor points without making clear first why a rezz should be carried, and why some of them don't work unless you meet certain conditions. And just to lower your minimum, you won't need a rez (or healer) if your group dps is good enough to lay waste on the other team before they blink (got 7 wins that way once)--Fighterdoken 23:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone in the battle isles tell you that leaving a match is dishonorable? I don't see how that is a requirement for anything.

What is one of the first skills you get in any campaign? In pre-searing, that chick by the res shrine outside ascalon gives you Res Sig when you party with someone, and she expresses the importance of ressing. In Factions and NF, you're taken through a tutorial about ressing where you drop and are ressed (and subsequently get a res sig). Yes, it should be included in the battle isles (maybe as one of the practice maps leading up to RA), but it isn't something that's too random to punish in the meantime. -Auron 23:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I guess i should go back to the start. If a player doesn't meet x requeriment from this list, it may be for two reasons: he didn't care (maybe trying a specific build or just griefing), or he didn't know any better. If the player has no clue about what is common sense in PvP (as in first PvP char he rolls and doesn't know how to set up a secondary class, or PvE secondary Monk bringing Rebirth at zero skill), you can't just start aplying sanctions over him for his ignorance, because that will just discourage them from participating in PvP instead of teaching them what and how to do (trial and error is still the best to learn here).

I highly doubt a player new to PvP would leave a match just because he didn't get a good team (one of the reasons why for the DCS to exist), the same way he would hardly leech or run 55/SF builds. The thing is, this proposal has the possibility of stopping certain kinds of griefing within RA, but at the cost of punishing newbies because they are newbies, not because they had the intention of doing something.

Like i said previously, the rezzing problem could be solved by forcing everyone to load a rez signet in RA (so even monks are forced to), but no other action besides the ones already implemented should be executed to prevent people from doing things in there. I mean, you people don't want to see players testing builds in TA/HA because they no longer can in RA, do you? (I am sure we are talking about RA here, because nobody in the other PvP arenas would fail to meet any of the requeriments here) --Fighterdoken 09:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

You're making some serious logic leaps. Since when did bringing a res sig stop you from testing builds?

And heh... people test builds in HA on a daily basis. It's how the meta changes. I remember testing rit spike back when nobody was running it; if nobody bothered to test out new skills, the meta would never change. -Auron 22:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Under the same logic, Since when did not bringing a rez sig stopped people from getting winning streaks or doing a good job in pvp? Or the opposite, Does bringing a rez signet means that people will acutally use it right instead of, let's say, wasting it in a trinity-skill sword-wammo who already used his rez signet, while other team member capable of rezzing was down also?. Anyways, my point is again (and again) just to make sure the small group of newbies out there (me included) don't get punished for not knowing what most think it's obvious... because it's not obvious most of the time, specially for a PvE/new player.--Fighterdoken 22:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, clearly the Great Temple of Balthazar tutorial needs to be changed so it sucks less, and teaches people things like why res sigs are good, why Mending is bad, etc. They were on the right track with the introduction of things like the Zaishen Challenge, but abandoned it to farm more money out of the PvE players. --72.211.152.118 16:27, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The tutorial does need changing, that would probably solve most of these problems. Also, forcing people to bring a rez won't solve the problem. I was just playing RA a few minutes ago, and when I told one of the two remaining people to rez us, his response was "I don't feel like it." Lord Belar 18:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

That's code for "I don't have a res". Go into RA sometime with Wastrel's Demise; you'll be amazed at how many people are carrying 8 spells. --72.211.152.118 04:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

If you don't bring res you are fucking terrible. gg noob. Readem 21:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

GWW:NPA - Drago 21:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Read my comment above: people who are not primary healers (determined heuristically based on attribute points) who do not have a good res (defined as a res sig, death pact, or a fastcasted non-sucky hard res (fastcast rebirth does not count)) should get dishonor points. NB: I don't think NPA applies to Readem's comment because the "fucking terrible noob" remark was directed to nobody in particular and is thus not a personal attack.--72.211.152.118 21:24, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Like, wth

This is litterly stupid. I was just in Fort Aspenwood and I battled my alot, only to see at the end I got the Dishonorable when it sends me back to the town! Image:User Eloc Dishonorable bug2.jpg I didn't once leave or anything like that. I stopped once to type in real leechers names/--§ Eloc § 21:26, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

its 5 min just go grind a title or do a quest its not a big deal your not going to get baned

Here's a shot showing that I did participate Image:Eloc Jcg Apsenwood proof.jpg.--§ Eloc § 21:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I've placed links to your images instead of showing them on this page directly. Also, please reupload per the naming rules at GWW:USER. -- (gem / talk) 21:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Already knew Dishonor was bad. Nothing new. 209.189.130.127 22:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

This isn't in the user namespace so it doesn't affect the rules of GWW:USER.--§ Eloc § 22:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

For as long as I've been on this wiki, all images of this sort (reporting a bug, etc) have been asked to be uploaded according to user image naming rules. I'm not sure how well this can be seen in the policies, but I don't care as long as that's what the etiquette is. -- (gem / talk) 22:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I would ask that you be a bit more sensible about your image naming in general, while we don't have a rule against profanity that image name is completely unnecessary. --Lemming 22:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is that name any more unnecessary than any other? Why that name should be avoided? Why is it important enough so you came here and request it, even when it is not a mandatory request? Coran Ironclaw 19:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I suppose you didn't see the originl name of the image which was pretty offensive. -- (gem / talk) 20:19, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I did, it was "Image:Fucking_gay.jpg", why do you find that name offensive? Coran Ironclaw 20:43, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I, for one, would like to express my thanks for this detailed and relevent message. If only we had more posts of this caliber. Hats off to Eloc. — Skuld 22:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm only trying to get a point across and that was the first name that came to my head for the image. It doesn't violate any policys or anything.--§ Eloc § 23:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

You know you've been a very bad troll when Skuld's on your side ;) ~ Kurd 23:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

There, in order to not cause a fight, I reuploaded them under different names.--§ Eloc § 23:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Boo fucking hoo. — Skuld 23:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Warning: Do not feed Skuld Trolls.

~ Kurd 23:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

If I get what Eloc means correctly, his team reported him even though he didnt do anything.. is it possible to do that? Like get 3 of your buddies in an ab group, invite another random person, then when the match starts /report him even if he did nothing wrong? I really don't know much about Dishonorable. If thats possible, then this system is horribly flawed. Correct me if I'm wrong please. --- Raptors / RAAA!

Yes, it's possible. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 23:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Woo I just found a fun way to piss some people off and kill a boring night! --- Raptors / RAAA!

lol, but anyways, I got 15 mins worth of dishonorable. Which means that 15 people reported me, which isnt possible as only 7 are capable of possibly reporting me for dishonor, and 2 of those 7 were actually leechers. So at max, I shoulda got 5 mins worth, but I didnt do anything wrong, so I shouldnt have gotten any.--§ Eloc § 23:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you get 2 per person who reports you for leeching, so the only way to get 15 minutes of dishonor is to leave a match prematurely and get reported by 5 people. --Edru viransu 00:24, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but I didn't leave it.--§ Eloc § 00:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

You probably already had a little from the last match. Lord Belar 20:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

But why is the question I'm asking. I didn't do anything wrong, so why should I get dishonor points?--§ Eloc § 13:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) "Players who report a team member for leeching without a third of their team also reporting that player will also receive 2 dishonor points." - Maybe applies here? brains12- - 20:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe. Although kind of dumb as like new players wont know how to use the /report function as they are not quite as observant as the experienced players. But why did I get 15 mins worth?--§ Eloc § 21:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

True... There should be something that says why the Dishonourable thing was given to you. It's just like being given a detention at school then being told "No, I'm not going to tell you why" (sorry about the analogy, its just that this happened to a friend recently, and this just made me think of that...) brains12- - 21:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Omg, I've had that happen before. And then when I do try asking they give me even more punishment for apparently backtalking, and then I am stubborn and say that I wasn't backtalking which counts as backtalking and then I'm in like 3x more trouble for nothing. =S--§ Eloc § 22:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Lol - the friend in question went from a maybe-half-hour detention, to a maybe-temporary exclusion. brains12- - 22:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow, XD--§ Eloc § 22:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

ok wtf... i was in ra and sombody didnt like the fact that i was playing as a paragon (even thought i was using a build rated great for ra on pvxwiki). That person told the entire team to report me for leeching... they all did. The next game they all reported me again. We eventually lost, and when i got back i had this thing. DISHONORABLE NEEDS NERF 208.58.26.153 20:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bug

Still bugged: leaving after your party dies randomly gives you dishonor points. If we're going to have braindead mechanics like this, then at least implement them correctly: only punish people who actually abandon a fight in progress or leech, and don't punish people who leave after their team has lost or effectively lost. --72.211.152.118 00:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Leaving manually counts as you are still abbandoning your team. Just let the timer teleport you. It's not a big race to enter the next battle. They should just remove the map travel while in PvP altogether.--§ Eloc § 01:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

If the match is over, you are not abandoning your team, as the match is over. And regarding your revert: I must have forgotten the First Commandment: thou shalt not reveal facts which reflect badly on ANet's misdesigns. --72.211.152.118 01:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

OMG, I need to get in that next battle 10s sooner!!!! Have patience, you won't miss out. Lord Belar 22:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Assume that there are ~400 people doing RA at any given time. Matches take about 1 minute with another minute to load, so 100 people lose every minute. Wasting 20s of their time (10s for the timer, 10s while waiting on the last guy with no res sig/used res sig to die) per loss comes out to 2000s of player time wasted per minute. Wasting this much of people's time because of a braindead programming error is a Bad Thing, especially since it has no benefit. Would you put up with a car that made you sit around for 20s after you inserted the key before you could start the engine, for no real reason? --72.211.152.118 19:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so you waste 2000s every minute when there are only 60s in a minute? — ク Eloc 貢 19:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Math iz gud. Lord Belar 20:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

• shakes head* Eloc, the person meant that 100 people lose a cumulative total of 2000 seconds in a minute... I personally don't suffer from this bug. I leave as soon as the matches have ended and I don't get dishonored. (Terra Xin 09:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Logic

→ moved from Guild Wars Wiki:Reporting a wiki bugguildwiki superbug!! :)

i got dishonourable for reporting a leecher... no one will report leechers as they are affraid of getting the hex themselves.. i think it would be best to remove dishonourable for reporters and keep in place the structured "half of the team must report" setup gotta admit..kinda wound me up, being punished for something SO SILLY. where is the logic.. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:81.153.189.33 .

Another fag skill... this is retarded, ive been playing guild wars for 2 years my team is all dead i leave the battle i get dishonorable? hahaha fucking izzy ur shit everyday. Get fired.

1. Izzy does a pretty damn good job, his job is difficult, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it. I give him props for how hard he's worked, even if some of his skill rebalances have been questionable.
2. This update fixed things a lot more problems than it caused, in my opinion.
3. Sign your comments, please, or don't make them at all.

--AtraAstrum(talk) 07:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Izzy does a terrible job. Guild Wars is not balanced at all, so I'd say, all in all, he's failed.

Adding dishonorable was a half-assed fix to a minor problem. It isn't nearly as accurate as it needs to be to cause the harm it does. See Rust's comment on my userpage about it.

Unsigned comments aren't hard to add, don't gripe so much about em :) -Auron 07:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

This Izzy guy is terrible at what he does. If a skill is being abused, nerfing the skill to the point where it will not be used anymore is not the answer (cough, cough paragons and assassin elites) and instead buffing the counters to the skill or reworking it where it will have a different function is a far better job than being lazy and making a skill never to be used again for example Incoming. Also another thing he fails at doing is making all classes balanced and useful in both pvp and pve and to provide an example assassins are terrible in pve and have no use whatsoever and buffing just a few skills will make them more viable in pve instead of just pvp (same as mesmers and necromancers). There are better ways to do this so called rebalancing and actually trying it out in game will be a lot more successful than just looking at it on paper and than implanting it into the main server.William Wallace 03:13, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

1. you dont know everything that Izzy does to balance the game. 2.Games are supposed to have crap skills and awsome skills (though paragons should be buffed a little), and 3.most of what you previously said was a major fail--Raph Talky 23:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Getting slightly off the original discussion... but yes, I get srsly ticked when I get Dishonorable for reporting a leech ar a luxon saboteur using Quicksand, Zephyr, Primal Echoes, EoE, etc... that's WHY nobody reports. This system needs a serious fix. --Kosh 01:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] anomaly with snowball fights?

How is it an anomaly? Because snowball fighting is not explicitly mentioned in the effect's description? I mean, what is Dwayna vs. Grenth other than a special form of the random arena? --84-175 (talk) 11:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed it as Dwayna vs Grenth is just another PvP thing and Dishonorable effects all PvP as far as I know. — ク Eloc 貢 20:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Then you know nothing. Oh noes, NPA! Lord of all tyria 20:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

-_-... On a side note, we are lucky that the Dishonorable system is working for the snowball arena too... at nights is easy to get into teams with two or more non-active players (and, if really lucky, the third player will be a slow-loader).--Fighterdoken 20:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hands Down Most Illogical Update Ever

• People that once left PVP for whatever reason are now converted to saintly honorable players. I think not.

Common Sense FTW.

Anet when you implement a disciplinary action think about what the repercussions will be. The people that formally left arenas are simply playing poorly or outright killing themselves. This in turn results in a rez sig going to waste on a guy that just killed himself.

• Go to international random arena.
• If your team is obviously unbalanced or there is no heal someone will resign.
• Expect the players that expressed their interest to leave by resigning to now play to their best ability.
• Continue smoking crack.

It seems like this would have been an obvious outcome of the dishonor hex and therefore slated as a bad idea.

The present situation is this: Now I waste my time watching the guy that once left prior to the update kill himself get rezzed then repeat. How is this any better than if the guy just left? Prior to this update we could have simply left or adjusted our game play to accommodate. If we chose to fight we at least had an additional rez sig that was not wasted on a guy that purposely allowed himself to get killed and contributed nothing to the team.

This update has been in effect for five months. I gave it a chance and now I realize it basically made casual, enjoyable PVP too frustrating to play. PVP was better prior to this update. Yes there were plenty of people leaving before matches even started but crying about is pretty sad when all you have to do is leave yourself and wait 30 seconds at most rather than waiting a lengthier amount of time while people play horribly on purpose.

I repeat, this update is counterproductive. It wastes honorable players time and creates far more frustration than dealing with a leaver.

You messed up. You can just as easily fix it. Don't believe me? Do some random polling. I assure you that most players will agree that things were better prior to this update.

Thx

Actually, this update fixed more issues than it solved. AB is actually doable now without having at least 4-5 people standing AFK in the base. — Galil 21:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

---

What you said doesn't address the situation I was discussing. AFK is a problem easily solved. Players trying to get on a decent team randomly is an altogether different issue. You are most likely not going to see players purposely throwing AB games since there is no incentive for consecutive wins. Your problem is leechers and addressed by the report function.

On a side note: AB will always suffer from a larger amount of inexperienced players due to the fact that it's random and integrated into PVE. They are leeching to gain PVE status and rewards.

I seriously don't mind this update, cause when Anet made it, They had thier minds in the right place, but how it actually turned out kinda sucks. I got the 10 dishonor points for leaving my team after the whole team already left, and I was the only one left i figured why die, jsu tmap out. so really, i was the only one being honorable, adn I got punished for my team leaving. So I say Anet should keep the aspect of thsi update, but please change it aroudn a bit, cause it's pretty screwed up the way it is. Lord Zepherr 04:53, May 18, 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My two cents

(Edit conflict) I think that this is an excellent update, its very useful on those pesky ragequitters. /rant....discuss!--Raph Talky 00:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Still missing the point and failing to comprehend the full effect of the function as a deterrent. Those people that formally rage quit will now just stand there or get themselves killed. In doing so someone else will likely rez them. You have to view the update not as a solution to leaving but quality of game play. Yes, people will now stay. No, game play is no better and IMO probably worse than it was at prior to this update. Not to mention the update itself is bugged and will sometimes result in losses when your team has more morale.

(Edit conflict) Bah, never understodd why you would leech in RA in the first place. or furthermore, why people even bother playing GW if all they do is leech and bot. I mean they are prob off somewhere getting a cheeseburger while their 55 monk just got 7k from one farming run. There is no fun in GW if all you do is, "bot bot bot leech leeeecchhhh!"--Raph Talky 02:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Changes.

Many times i run in matches where neither side has a chance of winning or where the match is extended to the end often resulting in a draw or having to wait for the match to end due to a person who keeps running, a person who keeps tanking or if both teams have a strong defensive backline. This often causes frustration having to wait so long for a match to end and often ends me up leaving and getting Dishonorable status just because i didn't feel like having to wait five minutes just for a match to end in a draw.

Please change the mechanics of the Leaving Dishonorable points for Random Arenas to,

For the first two minutes of the match, whenever player leaves, that player gains 5 Dishonorable points.

This way people cannot leave to get a nice team, but people can leave if they want too when matches end up in nothingness or if a player goes abusive and extends the match to the end.

Also, many people stay away from reporting because the way you get Dishonorable points if too little people report someone. Please change the mechanics to,

Whenever 75% of targets team reports that player, the player is forced to leave and recieves 10 Dishonorable points.

This way people won't be scared to report if someone's leeching or abusing, while not making this system easly abuseable. SniperFox 15:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

If the wording was "more than 75%," it would be impossible to report a leecher, as 3/4 is exactly 75% :P -Auron 15:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Changed! :P SniperFox 15:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Reporting feature doesn't even work in RA. I mean it works but getting 2 other players to report a leecher or bot is pretty futile. Most players dont understand the function or how to do it even when shown. I have spent entire matches trying to get a leecher reported and ended up getting dishonor for myself.

[edit] AB resign

today i was playing AB(kurzick) and three kurzicks left before the match begun. the whole kurzick side decided to resign so we resigned. the next moment i found myself in the polisch district? with the dishonor hex without my party. Now i never leave and have never been reported (as far as i know) but i resigned quite often from both AB and RA. can you get dishonor from resigning? --Scorpios 15:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

You shouldn't be able to. You might have gotten reported for leeching by someone though. As for the Polish district, maybe on of your party members is Polish? — ク Eloc 貢 01:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Like the article says, you can get dishonour from resigning. Whether they count it in a seperate system from normal dishonor I don't know as i've never tested it in AB and don't want to. 122.104.167.139 12:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dishonour Point Accumulation

Do dishonour points accumulate within an hour? Say I leave twice in a 5 minute period I get the hex and can't enter for 10 mins. If I leave again 13 minutes later do I get a 15 minute time out or just the 10 again? 122.104.167.139 12:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

you get 15 minutes. (Terra Xin 02:43, 21 July 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Enter Match before Over

Here is a screenshot ... nuf said Dishonorable Glitch --70.105.16.225 19:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Doesn´t show much, your hex was right about to end anyway. Besides, simple photoshop (or even simple cut/paste in paint) will get you the same type of screenshot. Future 00:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Can you reproduce this "glitch" at any given time? — ク Eloc 貢 23:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Useless Update

This update was probably one of the most useless updates ever. If they want to punish leavers/ragequitters/leechers etc, they shud make the punishments tough, not like this shit. If you log out and log back in it just disappears (I tested it in FA) and it only lasts 10 minutes. In FA the waiting times are like that much, so it doesnt affect leechers there at all. They should either scrap the idea or make it a lot tougher on leavers etc

[edit] PvE

I have noticed if I get this hex on my PvE chars my drop rate when returning to PvE with them increases. Cimoa