Talk:Game updates/Archive 5

RA Syncing

Must be put to a stop, when full teams sync it with 2 r/w axe 1 smite 1 woh...or r/p sb vor woh and trash talk you when they win, somethings wrong. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.97.144 (talk).

and just how would u propose to get rid of it? there's no easy solution that doesn't add some unacceptably high overhead cost to the regular players. u could increase the gathering time to... oh say 5 mins. that'd get rid of most syching (and most ra'ers too). --VVong|BA 19:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Randomly (ra..?) make groups and don't put ppl in groups because they joined at the same moment and district. Pulpulpullie 21:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I already suggested many solutions many times. Here's one example:

1. Buffer. Instead making teams with just the 4 next players that start, wait for at least 16 players to join every 30 seconds. If 16 players do not join, then the buffer will have just the ones that joined during that 30 seconds.
2. Shuffle. Then randomize the order of those players and make REAL random teams with them.

Done, any team with people that wanted to be toguether will have them by pure luck, as should have been from the start. MithTalk 04:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

that might work for ra. but that's not a general solution for serious synching like what goes on during dragonball. u have groups of 10-20 ppl synching at the same time on vent. if ppl really wanna synch, they're gonna get around something as minor as what u propose. --VVong|BA 04:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, yeah? How? Just tell me, and I'll tell you that's impossible. People sync because the system makes teams based on the other they join. Randomize the order are they can't sync. At all. There are only two ways to cimcurvent that:

1. By knowing both the randomization algorithm and the server exact time, to the millionth of second.
2. Being only they and their friends ones in ALL districts of the outpost. Something impossible in festivals, where a lot of people join.

All syncing is the same. People enter, teams are made in the same order they enter. Player A enters, player B enters, player C enters, etc, etc, etc. And then teams are formed this way: abcd, efgh, ijkl, mnop, qrst, uvwx... etc.

Shuffle the players, and they can't be in the same time. One time it would be awhx, lrmi, etqo, bugk, vsdn, cfpj, the next xsqw, cano, lkbf, jeig, mhpr, vtud, and so on. What would work for RA would work for any system with random party formation. MithTalk 13:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

/agrees with Mith. gogogo a-net! Pulpulpullie 16:05, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

/agree with Mith. Or you could add a random delay when a person clicks the button. It would make it harder to synch. @Wongba: just because a solution doesn't work 100% doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented. It should be implemented if it's the solution that provides the best improvement over what we had before. In only very rare case will there be 100% fail-safe solutions. -- Alaris 16:29, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

the method only works with a big enuf shuffle. when there are more ppl syncing than the shuffle size, ur method fails. if 10-20 ppl sync, they have enuf ppl to fill 2 or more teams. in dragonball, it's not unusual for syncers to do just that and face off against each other immediately after a mass sync. if u don't make the buffer a hard minimum number, there's no reason to think that a few ppl synching repeatedly won't eventually luck out and sync together when there aren't many other ppl joining. --VVong|BA 16:56, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

That's why I proposed a delay, which works on the "number of people joining per unit of time" rather than the "number of people joining" only. Either method is imperfect, but it's an improvement over "no-shuffling". -- Alaris 17:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Is not necceary to completely prevent friends and allies to join you in RA. But if tha is to happen, it must be completely random, just luck. Of course my idea requires at last a good amount of people in order to work properly (at least 12..16 people) but it's better than nothing. We also know that some people may 'hijack' certain arenas, like when an alliance decide on going to the Jade Quarry and there are almost only members of that alliance there. The 'buffer' idea works better the more people join the area. If most of the people to join are on the same side, the only that that can be done is romoting the area so more people join, not much else. MithTalk 00:40, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Hijacking the Jade Quarry kinda happens a lot because of people wanting to map it, and needing 16 people to get into it in the first place XD 12.203.15.191 02:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf... WILL WE EVER GET ANY BUFFS?!?!

We've been getting nerfed. And we've been getting nerfed. And nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed. I don't even want to use Dervishes in PvP anymore, because the skill that revolves around you being able to cause damage is now a Wind Prayer. Sure, CHILLing Victory, sounds like it's cold right? But it's still a SCYTHE ATTACK. Now, instead of being able to have nearly 16 points into scythe mastery, wherein I can dominate with CV and other good things. Instead I have to use a 10-9-9 build and THEN add the runes, meaning that if Mysticism is the 10 one that the max I could have on Wind Prayers using only runes/headgear is 13. That's 3 points LESS than it's PvE version, w/runes and headgear.

That isn't all. Now assassins have been nerfed, so that's good. However, assassins have been getting nerfed for a long time, so you would think that, in the previous update, that they could've given them a break, but no.

Wail of Doom? Now it's a complete piece of crap! Of course this was in a long ago update, but like I said, it's the little nerfs that only seem to take away 5-6 skills that seem least deadly, but turns out that they can be the WORST. Necros, Rits, Sins and Dervishes have been getting nerfed since the beginning of time. This is especially not helpful since nerfing a single skill means that the dervish now has one less than it's usual 60 skills to use.

ANet is probably too lazy to look at/care about what I'm saying but I hope at least YOU guys get the message. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.70.95.204 (talk).

We will never get buffs, because to keep the game balanced you need to nerf the best skills untill they are all equally good. You can't buff the worst skills untill they are used.. If they are finaly used they will most likely be inbalanced as well.. And can we STOP with the whining about nerfs please? Realy starting to piss me off.. Pulpulpullie 15:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

A philosophical note: nerf to 1 skill = buff to all other skills. That's true in PvP, but also in PvE as mobs mostly use the same skills as players do. -- Alaris 15:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

That's a good observation. But due to the nature of buffs and nerfs and skills, won't anet be mainly nerfing and occasionally buffing skills until the end of time? Unless anet forces you to choose among lets say, only 3-4 potential skill bars per profession, and they balance those skill bars so that not all the skills are great, they reduce these profession absolute advantages to mere comparative advantage, and each play style is embodied with a more limited selection of skills (as skill bars are chosen as a whole and not skills), then I potentially see the state of balance attainable in a more near future. On the current path of balance, I believe the means to balance will take ages and that the end is a game that people cannot enjoy from the preparation aspect (pre-planning and skill arrangement) but gw will become a game where people must merely fulfil certain limited roles, and the only challenge will be learning how to play that restricted skill bar to its fullest (not the clever arrangement of skills). (Narziss 23:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC))

Yes, Nerf everything until everyone sucks equally in PvP. Then everything will be equally as fun-(meaning that all are as boring as each other) [[User:Phill Gaston|Phill Gaston]]‎ 18:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

News just in, Ursan takes over PvP T1Cybernetic 18:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

looooooooooooool i'm quoting that nerf to WoD XD.well i'm actually quoting the whole thing :p Lilondra 06:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Nerfs? Wounding Strike is Evis on crack. A spammable COVERED dw with limited AoE, its on the bar of every halfdecent Dervish. Wail of Doom nerf? It was barely used before it got changed, now it can shut out a target for 4 out of 10 seconds, 8 out of 10 if you AE it, and its in Soul Reaping, so it generally requires no investment regarding atts. Kamer 08:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, you need 15 SR to get 4 seconds. thats a Sup. or Major rune if you have another attribute at 15. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 10:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Run a major you can run it and 3 seconds is enough heck even 2 is enough to kill a guy dont you get it its a RANGED KNOCKDOWN THAT DOES NOT CAUSE EXHAUSTION.see it as a 4 second gale that does not require exhaustion and is cheaper + is in youre primary attribute ! Lilondra 11:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

"I don't want to use dervishes in PvP" - are you retarded or something? Chilling Victory is insane even at a lower spec, and you still have Wounding Strike and insane autoattack damage on up to three people. Christ, every time I think the game's community might have some semblance of a brain, someone goes to prove me wrong. -- Armond Warblade 13:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The irony in this section is that the user who made it listed all reasons why we didn't get enough nerfs yet : P Dervishes, assassins, necromancers - I hope all those professions' gimmicks get massively nerfed in PvP, and then the first two (together with ritualists) could be reworked into something useful, balanced and good for the game. Erasculio 13:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems we are going to get a lot of buffs in underused elite skills, including the Raven and Volfen blessings. It seems they want them to be used more evenly, instead just picking one and using it only. MithTalk 16:07, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Loving the PvE skill updates nice job!!! woooo!!! 69.248.175.25 02:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, the buffs to the warrior skills will certainly get us to use them - NOT!

Are you kidding? Changing Warrior's Endurance from a Stance to a Skill lets you do all sorts of fun things with high-cost ranger IAS stances. You can take some points in Beast Mastery, load your bar with Power Attack, Pure Strike, Jaizhenju Strike, and Tiger's Fury. Throw in Bull's Strike for good measure. --Phydeaux 03:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Surprised it took me so long to realize this, but if the OP's running 10-9-9, he's got a couple attribute quests left to do... -- Armond Warblade 17:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

seeing as how this post is always at the top of the discussions page, i always seem to read it without realizing ive read it before, but armond's comment always cracks me up XD--60.241.172.128 11:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Flashing Blades Vers Gladiators Defense

Flashing Blades Cost 10 energy and has a 30 second recharge time(it will last for 30 seconds with 15 attribute points in dagger mastery wich means you can constantly keep it up) Gives you a 75% percent chance to block while attacking, Block effect attacker takes 20 damge (with 15 attribute points)

Gladiators Defense Cost 5 and has a 30 second recharge time( it will last 11 seconds with 15 attribute points into tactics)Gives you a 75% chance to block melee attacks Your attacker 35 damge whenever you block a melee attack this way

I think That gladiators Defense should be buffed to match flashing blades because if you where to put these skills up against each other (while attacking with melee that is) Flashing blades would win hands down by the time Gladiators wares off The person with Flashing blades will have about half there health so to make Gladiators more even i would juggest add 4 seconds or so to the duration of it --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.165.186.54 (talk).

Gladiator's blocks no matter what and only deals damage vs melee. Blades only blocks when you attack and deals damage vs melee and ranged attacks.--Underwood 07:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Yay, finally i wont get screamed at (as much) for using Flashing Blade's :D :D, Now lets wait for some builds to come out that use Flashing Blade's that'll turn it into "unbalanced" and get it re-nurfed :/ Darren Blacktail 13:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

update

UBER MICRO! gw is a new game, i guess. - Y0_ich_halt 08:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

plz fix those imba skills : Xinraes Weapon , the power is yours! , Visions of Regret and Flashing Blades.

Glimmering Mark bugs: 1) It ends when using ANY skill against target (this includes attack skills), 2) I assume this skill is supposed to have armor penetration; instead, the damage currently ignores armor. 75.190.224.181 11:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Two words: LOL URSAN. 24.18.89.24 12:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Update - Thursday, August 7, 2008

Something's wrong with my heroes after this update : they sometimes try to move and use a spell/signet at the same time repeatedly, resulting in an empty energy bar when it's a spell... happens in all areas. Appeared just after the update. Same builds did not trigger this behaviour before. So far I know for sure it's affecting Livia and Dunkoro, as I've caught them red-handed.58.5.245.251 13:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Aliabastre

-- Also, gotta fix the wording on the totem of man skill, it still says you lose all energy when you do not.

Well since you've caught them red handed, you could always send them to their rooms without supper BeeD 15:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Updates: like the 7. aug

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hi i am Oficer of a Luxon Guild, i am Playing now 2 Years and a few month. I dont like the new Update and what they want to do with the next one.

This points disturbs me:

• ANet killed neraly all Farming Forms for low Level Players... Shadowfor, Ursan, and a few Earth skills, how do they get armor and so on without money.

• Title more easer for all! Why? where are many people hard working for it. You also can put it in Shop and sell it so all have max ranks i could not be! In this way. If you want to help the persons with lower level make more EVENTS

• I like it then the TEAM fixes Errors but not more.... You will loose all Players to other games. and i think twice to buy GW 2, if the compenie makes som many changes again.

• I think i am not so good as Player and i help all they ask me in limit but with the changes you kill all my options and the of all others to make there PJS Better

Greetings "Adrien Ansem" you can talk me in GW if needed

You can get max armor just by playing the game, without farming even. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 20:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Adrien. I am going to move this thread over to the page for discussion of updates, so that even more folks can read your thoughts and provide you with their insights. -- Gaile 20:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Pwnzer there. I've played the game for three years and I've not spent a single hour farming. All my gold has been amassed by trading and pick ups. Doing it this way I've managed to buy max level armour for all my characters that I regularly play. Two of them have got the 2 sets of prestige armour each and a third has one set. So it's not really that difficult to amass the funds you need. It's called financial planning BeeD 00:16, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

To play Devil's Advocate, almost everything in the economy has dropped significantly in price while the cost of prestige armor has not changed, making it (in theory) harder to get. For example, a couple years ago a Rune of Superior Vigor was 39k but is now 18k. Or perhaps a better example would be black dye. Argel 21:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Untrue. Prestige armor was universally 15k/piece. Many of the newer sets are 10k/piece (Vabbian is 5k/piece, though it has horribly expensive components). SarielV 06:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

1. with a little thought you should already be able to do similar endgame things with other combinations and practice, Elite Armor is completely optional too.

2. It relishes what the people want, a game where grind is completely optional, you asked for it.

3. GW 2 will be all new, your choice to get it or not (they do plenty of bugfixing and changes all the time too).

4. Finally... if anything you now have more options than ever, customize and experiment knowing that synergy is the key and that dodging as many obstacles you would come to expect is the key to making it through. 58.179.108.234 17:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC) These are my opinions, kept short:

• Prestige Armor is optional.
• 60/70/80 AL Armor can be earned without farming.
• Economy is screwed (Thx Ursan & SF)
• Farming at a Low Level?
• More Easy Farming
• Want More?
  

About the nerfing, I'm divided, some nerfs are good, some are..a bit to much..

You are NOT fucking serious!!!!!

• Way of the Assassin: this skill now only works with daggers; reduced attack speed increase to 5..20%.
• THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT!?
• IF NOT THEN THIS IS TYPICAL ISAIAH CARTWRIGHT!!! BUFF A SKILL A LITTLE TOO STRONG,
• AND THEN TOTALLY NERF IT INTO THE GROUND INTO USELESSNESS,
• INTO A STATE WORSE THAN BEFORE!!!!

I am totally in endless rage now. I was fine with the speednerf, okay, 33% may have been too strong. Fine. nerf it. whatever. BUT DONT MAKE IT WORK WITH DAGGERS ONLY!!!!! WHO THE HELL! Needs more crit with Daggers, a weapon with 17 END DAMAGE??? Daggers are easily the worst weapons in Guild Wars, because of their inability to doublestrike when using skills, low end damage and totally broken dagger-chain-concept. And now you nerf all alternatives. RIDICULOUS

• Quitting Guild Wars for good if this isn't reverted within the next 7 days, Shroud of Silence already was a slap in the face. And NOT BUYING GUILD WARS 2

LoL you have Way of the Master thats all you need.--Underwood 00:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

..... no comment.

Wow...this skill is still really awesome. now scythe/spear/hammer/bow/wand sins can't use it. Sins use daggers. Is that a cardinal sin or something? (no pun intended, really). -- Wandering Traveler 00:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassins were created with daggers in mind, not scythes. That's what Anet is promoting with this update. Calor 01:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Awesome? Are you joking!? Do you even play an Assassin? If by awesome you mean awful then you are right! The ONLY thing that is a little better with this "new" version, is conjure builds. That's it. And for that about 10 other builds got nerfed. You haven't played an Assassin, no, or you wouldn't say we're supposed to use daggers. It's not the reality. Either you use a pwnage Elite that somehow hinders an opponent (snare, daze), or you use any other weapon but DAGGERS! What I'm saying is: NO ONE absolutely NO ONE will profit from +33% crit with DAGGERS with 17 end damage and a weapon that is already fast but low damage!!

And to the new comment that just edit conflicted I have to say: THE DAGGER CONCEPT IS BROKEN, CHAINS ARE EASILY BLOCKABLE, IF ONE SKILL IS BLOCKED YOU ARE A SITTING DUCK FOR USUALLY 12-15 SECONDS DOING A PUNY 30 CRIT WITH YOUR AUTOATTACK WHILE EVERY OTHER CLASS CONTINUES SPAMMING THEIR ORDER-NONDEPENDANT SKILLS. Thank you for your understanding.

Yay, one more great update : D Thanks Arena Net, now the skill (and assassins as a whole) are much better than before. I'm happy I have yet to play GW:EN with my assassin, would be a shame if I hadn't anything left to play with her. Erasculio 02:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I have a feeling that this was nerfed both due to the 'OP nature' (See: 35% IAS) and to get rid of the Assassin Critical Spearchuckers. (A/P, spammed this and Critical Eye along with several spear skills, including deepwound, daze (not sure if that one was elite), cripple, blind, and 25% armor piercing ones). Justified, considering X/P seems to be common in the current meta. (I've seen A/W/R/P all go spearchucking to reasonable effectiveness) (Applies to Dervs too, as Calor pointed out. Thanks!)Diva 03:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Last night, I gibbed a monk from [HGH] in under three seconds with a critscythe. Cry harder. --71.229.253.172 03:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

He really does love his caps lock key doesn't he? -- Salome 03:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

and bold — Seru Talk 03:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Wonder if I can have his stuff on the way out :P Nbajammer 03:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

2 Great updates in 2 days. 81.71.25.43 04:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

What? Way of the Assassin. Can you read? It's not 'Way of the Paragon' or 'Way of the Warrior' or 'Way of the Ranger' nor 'Way of the Dervish'. It's 'Way of Assassin'. Assassins use daggers. End of story. MithTalk 08:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree Mith,No more of those stupid A/D, A/R, A/W and A/P....i so happy that it got turned into with Daggers only :) Now people wont expect A/D's in almost every random PuG i find :D Darren Blacktail 13:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Seems a tad harsh. Also Mith, sorry but i dont agree with "X prof uses X weapon", the dual proff nature of GW is designed for diversity in play styles, thus no particular weapon should ever be "FOR" any particular profession. I do think the elite needs changed so it effects none daggers again but changed so it doesn't give as big an advantage as it did. -- Salome 13:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what are you talking about. There are skills that are meant for use along other weapons, like the Way of the Master. But Assassin's weapons are daggers. You MUST be an assassin to be able to use daggers. A secondary assassin it's an assassin too. MithTalk 15:59, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Sins are supposed to use daggers, and smart ones can get around blocking anyday, I'm sorry your scythe/spear/whatever sin blows now, wait, I'm not 68.47.192.6 14:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol.

Yeah, it is just about worse than it was before. Its good, but I think that it should be usable with any weapon, but the IAS buff only with daggers. That way old builds wont get destroyed, and new builds wont be OP. Maybe half Crit +% with non dagger weapons? ~Phill Gaston ‎ 23:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassins can still blast around with a Scythe y'know... it's not gimmicky or "Way of the X" The Assassin in guild wars was made to be a master of all arms to begin with, 13 Crit Strikes (If you're not silly you'll stick with Bow, Daggers or Scythe). 58.179.108.234 17:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

All can I say to the original poster is QQ moar and learn2gw 90.195.203.141 23:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

It was really overpowered before but I think they lowered the attack speed just a tad bit too much though. It should be +5...21...25% Done25 20:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Its not like you HAVE to use a dagger chain on a dagger sin, you just CHOOSE to, if you really wanted you could use ONLY lead attacks and Malicious Strike, then you wont have that "dependent" thing you were talking about 76.26.189.65 23:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

At least Isaiah gives me a great laugh at other people's expense. It's nice to see PvP'ers getting shafted for a change now they've split PvE and PvP skills. We've had it for the past 3 years just to suit PvP. Enjoy. – josəph 18:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC) PS: My sides are still hurting 5 minutes later thanks to Salome/Seru/Nbajammer's comments...

I think what people fail to realize is, that the IAS didn't need to be slowed at all. Once the person using it can no longer use anything but daggers, that problem was fixed. Instead, they fixed it, and then nerfed it again. =\ Finding this failure to balance correctly amusing should be sickening to anyone who plays PvE or PvP. 71.127.159.233 02:20, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Way of the Assassin

Change to:

• Elite Stance. For the next 20 seconds you have a +5...29...35% chance to land a critical hit. Also, while wielding daggers, you attack 5...17...20% faster.
• PLEASE, It's WORSE than before.

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:62.158.117.117 (talk).

It's WORSE than before...so ? let it burn in hell with every other A/D out there.--ChronicinabilitY 04:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, also let a-net find a way to nerf that annoying as hell R/D. 81.71.25.43 04:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

How is it worse than before? You could use Way of the Master and get the same effect and use a different elite. Stacking this and Way of the Master was a waste anyway.--Underwood 09:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree'd kill it and all the damned CritScythe builds out there :D Darren Blacktail 13:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Except all the CritScythe builds out there pre-buff never touched WotA anyways, because nobody in their right mind uses up their Elite slot when they can do the exact same thing with a non-Elite skill.

...oh, right. WotA gives about a extra 4% critical boost over WotM, that's a perfectly good reason not to bring Wounding Strike.

On that note, with the new WotA (even the new-new one), I think a few old builds got buffed; there were a few WotA dagger 'Sins back when WotA first came out, and I can see those re-emerging. People are complaining that there's no reason to critical with a daggers' low power, and they forget all about the energy-management aspect. Want damage? use a skill. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 14:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Anet`s policy of Nerfing, useless blessings are Bad for Business

well you said that Ursan was overpowered although it opened elite areas to some weaker players. now ursan isnt usable anymore in places like DOA but well... ok, that isnt the point, along with that statement for ursan being over used on the expense of the other almost unused blessings, u said these blessings would become Better. so how comes? the ursan nerf is ok (except that economy now has amrbraces going for 100+70e and nobody wants to take some classes into their oldschool DOA teams) i strongly believed that raven and wolven should be very nice alternatives in most HM and elite regions if they only would have been added the same Armor bonus (as u indeed added, bit lower than ursan still) but the 60 seconds living time of Raven isnt really making the skill better now, neither making it an option for anything useful in elite regions.

Somebody pointed in a possible way elimating ursan way to make the skill behave normaly in parties of up to two ursans and as more ursan using player will be in party the over all damage would be reduced. i believe it was a great idea worth trying before ruining the three blessings at once.

i am not moaning about the loose of ursanway for me, though i accomplished many of the pve normal titles without even having more than 3 elites, heros or helping guildies. the game indeed is possible without blessings at all, but the problem is that it makes weak/average skilled players into skillless help depending players who proove impossible to manage in elite areas. so finding a balanced, good team of players (who dont curse and behave badly) in elite regions had dropped to a stage playing in these places is becoming the most unpleasant experience in the game (just as it was before)

the "equality" priniciple some of the anti-blessings moaners, who in most cases were players who showed narrow eye to the possibilty of newer players getting FOW armors, or moaning that new players got the chance to get titles easier than they had to do 2 years ago, creates a bias against anybody who is newer to the game, and seriously, THIS IS BAD FOR ANET`S BUSINESS, which is strongly dependant on mass purchase of the game and not on the good selfish feeling of small "elite" circle of players who care to point in most cases on players not using the OldSchool builds they use as Noobs. the blessings (though ursan was overpowered and abused) had much more positive attitued towards these newer players, dont forget the new ones who joined after eotn was introduced! the philosophy of nerfing PVE skills is seriously bad in my eyes, it take the game backwards, not regarding to what happens in other mmo`s and into the future and playingness of the game in several areas. - ONE PLAYER WHO GOT CURSED AND CALLED NOOB THAT TELLS IT TO 1000 OTHERS ABOUT GW IS BAD FOR BUSINESS. than one oldshcool whos heart hurts to see a new player with FOW armor. my point is - that the latest balance show a strong attitued against the larger mass of less skilled players in the game. specialy those who move into gw from concurent mmo`s.

i strongly disaggree to this attitude, saying now, that EOTN elite skills should be nerfed this way. EOTN was intended to the lvl 20 players, due to business reasons it was allowed to lvl 10`s, who had a golden oportunity to become strong fastly. but yes, the game developed in level of difficulty in EOTN so naturaly stronger skills were introduced, doing what anet did now, means anet admits that eotn was a bad expansion, bad for economy, and bad for everybody - except the real players who play the game, causualy but arent expressing their will and heart in guild wars wiki discussions. anet by this step ignored everybody who enjoyed the game how it was in the last year.

instead of nerfing skills, make elite regions harder, add difficulty levels to abused areas as you did in UW. the same would apply into all heavily abused areas. thats the positive way of growing and developing such enviroment. to say ursan was overkill in normal mode proph missions would be the same as saying that necrosis is overkill in prophecies and all other only pve skills and later skills are. so by this same rational why wont anet nerf all skills introcuded released after prophecies. where is the logic? do u really believe old school only is the only proper way to play this game? do u really believe that by bringing the game back into 2005-2006 standarts you are making it better and more friendly to new players? my responce is that it is BAD FOR YOUR BUISNESS.

this is my first ever post on wiki discussions, i am a player who joined the game only a year ago, i got introduced into eotn only during the winter event, means i finished campaings on several chars before i ever had any of the eotn skills. i never used px-wiki build to overcome a mission, my playing experience comes mostly from actualy playing the game. i am leader of a succesful pve full alliance, and own couple of full halled guilds. the eotn skills and the blessings allowed us to make new players better, allowed us to reach helping hand to lower level players who on other hand would leave the game cause of the learning curve would be to steep for them. i have many of these cases with WoW players we have and sadly "had" in the alliance. i wont say much about the absordity of the steep learning curve in gw pvp, its not the issue here, but my strong personal feeling is that the nerfing measures and the recent policy of a minority of farmers crying that ursan ruined their (half scamming) buisness in gw is very bad for anet`s Buisness. and the business is selling more games, and making the potential gw2 buyers circle bigger. if such policies will continue, the silent majority will have no choice but to silently react by not purchasing any more expansions or having any purpose to grind the game for a period of a year more, if they cant actualy find their place in most of the elite regions. thats simply bad strategy.

the outcome of this update is allready showing its face,

1. economy even in worst condition, only a small minority becomes "wealthy" now player who wont be able to afford the now inaccesible elite areas, wont grind the game to pay the farmers. but will play the game less.

2. some classes arent welcomed anymore in Domain of Anguish. only old school ways work there. - at least try to fix these spceific regions (DOA wasnt abused by ursan, but it was abused by hackers and dupers most of them from the hard core circle of gw players btw).

3. revert the other blessings to be usable in HM EOTN dungeons. people bought and played eotn with the blessings as they were intended to be played by your developing team. no body would say anything if these skills were only available in eotn from the start. completing dungeons in HM shouldnt be a practice of 3-4 hours work with the old school builds.

4. dont do any nerfes to overall game enviroment. (nerfing skills also makes foes weaker, then some builds become better again till they are nerfed again).

5. invest your resources and time in creating wealth possibilites by introducing new "elite" domains

6. the fact that the price of ectos dropped was not due to over farming of it, but mostly by the introduction of the zaishen title, making the zaishen keys trade rate higher, which made it a natural marketing target for the "rich" who could buy hundreds of keys in 1 key = 1 ecto rate. the z-key traders who are mostly pvp players, had no reason to waste time in trading them but sold them to the rare material traders for fast cash, thats how ectos dropped so fast. making z-keys more attainable and titles higher would solve this problem without ruining the whole PVE skill balance.

7. the principle of equality is a bad principle, skilled players should be rewarded more, in pve and in pvp. from historical point of view all comunistic attempts rose the biggest fraud and trickery, the same happens in the gw "equal" enviroment. i accept that some players being much better than me are entitled to get better mods, better weapons etc, it would also make me want to be better myself.

8. please learn from your mistakes, dont perpetuate them in GW2 specialy by making another open to everybody vs everybody unleveled pvp system. let the high lvl`s fight high lvl`s, as somebody who works with the ELO system in life, anet forgot to catecorise tournaments. without catecorising opponents just as is done in the chess world, pvp would be mostly open into scam and organised rank farming. all at the cost of making it unfriendly to new, and weaker players.

i wrote this long post, not for trashing or accusing anybody, but out of care for the overall experience in gw. and from deep concern to the outcoming future of the game. i understand well the need in careful balancing, and i bless the separation of pvp and pve skill updates. but making pve going back to 2006 wont cover for lack of content, and wont affect much such players who already attained all pve titles (like me) it will just make the new players (we all were noobs, i am regarding myself still as one even when ill get koabd r6).

comments would be more than welocme, Thank you. --Simon De Borovsk 04:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

tl;dr. Lulz. Diva 04:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Interesting post, but Ursan needed a nerf. Luckily, what came with that nerf were a whole bunch of "new" elites that allowed the creation of new builds, that hopefully will soon replace "old skool" builds such as HB and SF. Also, on the casual player portion, don't you have to grind to reach that nice r10 level? My two cents Lance 05:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The PvE skills were all buffed so they could see decent use at the lower ranks (1-3) without making players having to feel as though they need to grind to be useful. As it stands, ranks 1-3 are like ranks 4-6 of the previous scaling system- all PvE skills were buffed in their overall effectiveness because of this. It also indirectly buffs Imbagon builds, as well, because of their spamming of TNtF and "Save Yourselves!" Diva 05:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're delusional and have no understanding of economics, society, or Anet's profit model. Also, learn to spell ffs. --71.229.253.172 06:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It's funny to see "DOA wasnt abused by ursan" and "skilled players should be rewarded more, in pve and in pvp" in the same post. -Auron 06:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

And "so by this same rational why wont anet nerf all skills introcuded released after prophecies" surrounded by five paragraphs of gibberish. --71.229.253.172 06:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Imho, Anet is just buying time until GW2 beta starts. No new content is probably for GW1. They are just buying their time and trying to keep players interested long enough to get GW2 out the door. Change, good or bad, tends to be interesting. Hence why skill updates went from 2x a year to every month. Keep in mind, this is all imho.--Ryudo 06:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The comment made by Ryudo seems, in my opinion, to be pretty realistic. Yseron - 81.251.148.109 07:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Arenanet has to keep people interested, with the silence of Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars is all we have, and if that goes dull so will interest in Guild Wars 2. I agree, for the most part, with Ryudo. Also, to point 3 I have to say "pfft" 3-4 hours for HM dungeons? Seriously? With or without Ursan it never took me that long to H/H HM dungeons. 000.00.00.00 07:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The introduction of Ursan in it's original form may have been great for sales of EotN, but it was bad for Guild Wars over all. The expectations of lower level/lower skill players were boosted way over what they would have been otherwise. The point of Elite areas is suppose to be that they are more challenging, require a higher amount of skill and knowledge of game play and skill synergy, and take longer than the average missions/quests. The point of achieving success in them is knowing that you have attained those higher levels, through time and study of the game, as well as working with other players to form a working team, and are now able reap the higher rewards. I never understood the issues behind the cries of 'elitism' that went on in pre Ursan, pre Mallyx nerf DOA, as we had come up with builds for every profession that while they may not be considered standard for the profession, were still workable in DOA. With the introduction of Ursan Blessing, the 'elitism' became much more pronounced, while the quality of play, as well as the value of the rewards steadily decreased. Guild Wars from the beginning was suppose to be about Skill>Time, and while Ursan may have cut the time by 70%, it also decreased the skill level by that much as well. Hopefully now, with the still upcoming addition of Tormented Weapons to the HoM, people who enjoy the challenge of the game, pitting their skill against what seem to be impossible odds will start thinking again, and get creative in finding ways to complete the DOA quests without cheap marketing ploys.

You say that this update is Anet's admission that EotN was a bad expansion, what is wrong with that? It WAS a bad expansion. It lacked thought and the kind of effort that went into the other campaigns and introduced a 'let's see how much of their time we can waste grinding for title ranks while we change our focus to GW2' mentality that has left some of us feeling cheated. I personally have more respect for them for finally making a real effort to bring some of the skill requirements back to the game, and it's making me rethink my plan to not purchase GW2 when it comes out.-- Wyn 08:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Simon takes the game a bit too seriously, plus he finds he cannot join groups without his EoTN elite. He sees other professions that aren't ele, warrior or monk in the elite areas as useless. He just wants to be able to join anything. --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 13:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Updates are good for business, depending on what skills get changed is what makes which people happy. You can't please everyone with every update, except those damn rangers that anet seems to love. 68.47.192.6 14:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

To the original poster: Why are you bringing unskilled players into an elite area anyway? If you're not bringing them in, why are you pugging them? They're called elite because they're for the players that know what's up. If you want to bring people there, teach them how to play first before coming here and whining. If you're pugging, perhaps you should... stop pugging? Crenel 04:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I am going to do some brain washing to erase my memory so that your statement about those areas that cant be puged can stay true. Yseron - 90.27.128.84 04:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

No need to give me that, I was just offering a legitimate alternative, based off of his original post. If he seems to be having trouble pugging certain elite areas, perhaps he should stop pugging and train some friends to play with him. To quote what I was referring to:

"i am not moaning about the loose of ursanway for me, though i accomplished many of the pve normal titles without even having more than 3 elites, heros or helping guildies. the game indeed is possible without blessings at all, but the problem is that it makes weak/average skilled players into skillless help depending players who proove impossible to manage in elite areas. so finding a balanced, good team of players (who dont curse and behave badly) in elite regions had dropped to a stage playing in these places is becoming the most unpleasant experience in the game (just as it was before)" Crenel 05:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Have to say that as much as Simon is concerned with the game - and he's probably not a native english speaker so easy on his spelling guys @_@ -, he does contradict the whole argument himself. Ursan should never have been an excuse to any 'skill-less' or 'weak/average skilled players' to expect to be able to successfully play the Elite dungeon areas! OMG. I remember pre-HM DOA with sad memories because I am a Paragon, even though being Holy Lightbringer, there was no room for any Paragons in DOA at the time after the paragon's monster nerf episode that went around. Thanks to my revulsion at playing ursan, I still could not get into PUG's, so out the window goes the 'equality' argument. Also, understand this, there will always be 'Elitism'. This may be a game, but real people are involved! How you work with/around this is entirely up to you, but your decision results in whether you continue to play or not, not a skill nerf. Now this doesn't really bother me, because I am good enough of a player to go into DOA with one other guildy and our heroes. We build our hero skills with the knowledge that we are going into DOA, an elite area. We do not use the 'Old Skool' builds, we do not even take an elemental hero. We take one monk. The builds we use are very specific to give us an advantage as a party. Mallyx has fallen more than 12 times to me and my guildy - man, I dunno what anet was thinking...they make such cool torment weapons and then Mallyx drops that rubbish, although the shield does look better on a mesmer, lmao! The people who are struggling with areas or missions or quests must understand; party build is about synergy of skills! Using Ursan will only mean one thing, 'the weak/average skilled players' and 'skill-less' players will remain such if they are only to rely on one skill! The only learning curve involved in acquiring ursan, was actually learning what a grind is and what buttons to press when in Ursan. Effective skill interrupt, proper attack timing all just went out the window! Which doesn't really say much about the other mmo's if the sad ex-Ursan players would rather play there. It's sad that such an attitude does exist, the game is about excitement, learning new ways to counter an area with every skill balance, exploring and creating a new boundry! If players leave because of ONE particular skill being nerfed, then all I hear from that is the 'complainer and whiners' leaving. These are the players that will never get a full picture of the game lore, who won't experiece the game's fullness and that's sad. The players that stay and say good things about the game and enjoy that it does require a substantial amount of skill to succeed in and enjoy that stimulus, will only bring in more players to the Guild Wars world and to all of them, I sincerly hope to see you all in Guild Wars 2!--Shaia 07:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

What guild wars needs to do is change the max party size to 5 or 6 in high end areas, and make those areas slightly easier! It's easier to formulate a group of 5 good players and coordinate them, and the chance seems lower that when taking 8 people, one or more of them will decide that they need to leave half way through. What the hell, why did guild wars even think the idea of making areas with more than 6 players would appeal to anyone?---In missions most of the time people need to take a bunch of heros, personal effort is less noticed in a larger group, and when you do get eight human players there is a good chance one of them will leeroy into the wrong direction and get the party killed or leave half way through.---Everytime I finish hm fow with a pug my team has between 5-6 players left. (Narziss 23:18, 31 August 2008 (UTC))

Reducing the maximum party size would make it harder for unpopular professions to find groups. -- Gordon Ecker 23:43, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassin hate

Reading through these comments makes me /facepalm nonstop. You ignorant HATERS! "Agree'd kill it and all the damned CritScythe builds out there" "No more of those stupid A/D, A/R, A/W and A/P....i so happy that it got turned into with Daggers only :)" WAKE UP! The assassin class was DESIGNED to spike you, STOP CRYING FOR GOD'S SAKE THAT A CLASS I DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO. You don't complain that that monk enemy is healing his comrades, do you!? But buuuuh-huuuh that assassin spiked you down because you didn't find it necessary to devote one of your slots for melee-protection. Freakin hypocrites I wanna see your class nerfed and how you react then...hope you're happy that 1 class in this game get's completely destroyed in every single update because of your Q_Q

/facepalm

What assassins were designed to do is utterly imbalanced in a game focused on team play and maneuvering. They should have never existed, and any update that moves towards either reworking their intended purpose or completely removing them from Guild Wars is laudable. And if you think Izzy pays any attention to what the player base wants, you haven't been paying attention. --71.229.253.172 18:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Put simply, the main spoil of the Assassin is to exploit the very beautiful Critical Strikes... The Assassin is a solid and balanced class anti-able like ALL the others. 58.179.108.234 17:36, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Dear mr un registered IP  i smell some sarcasm (or noobyness) there Lilondra 19:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent and upcoming updates.

Now for starters I have comment on the discussion, that have been made about the new skill updates. The posts that some have made in here and in forums like in GuildWarsGuru are like childish complaints, when something isn't to your liking, and this kind of behaviour isn't pleasing to read. Others have made good comments and suggestions, which I'm happy to see. I just hope that everyone tries to understand, that making these kind of changes to a game is hard and cannot satisfy every wish that players have. If something seems unbalanced, overpowered or just a change to worse then say it in a manner that is polite. This way your ideas may be understood better and not passed by, over use of capslock or whining. That being said, on to the comments about the update.

• I'm very happy to see this kind of an update in the game, as it makes some aspects refressing and new. Most of the elites had a nice change and as said in the developer updates: there will be changes within a week if there's the need (to balance the elites if they are too powerfull or weak). So make suggestions if somenthing needs to be changed.

I'm not going to say alot what changes were great, because then my post would be really long. I'm going to comment a few concerns about some elites, skills and changes that would need to be adressed (other things are either great or I just don't see any problems with them). Although I have mention that the newest change to "Way of the Assassin" is very good and was needed.

• First about the GvG changes: removing the npc travel to flag stand in WoD feels a good thing and the removal of the effects too, but the removal of Precision Shot and Bodyguards offensive skills seems a bit too much. I'm afraid that now there isn't almost no fear (and strategy) to attack the enemy base and builds that utilice Necromancer heroes would have serious momentum in there. Guilds that don't have top players will have massive problems to stop these kind of teams now that your base doesn't have much strength anymore to defend. I'm concerned about these things, but not actually experienced this situation yet after the update in GvG (as my guild hasn't played GvG yet).
• Then to the skills.
  • Extend Conditions had a very significant boost and I'm worried, that it's slightly too powerfull now. I'm very happy that the skill has the spread conditions aspect now to it. It's just that the energy cost, cast time and recharge are quite low and being just a skill causes it to be, in my opinion atleast, superior when comparing to Fevered Dreams and not equal (the spread area is different, but still).
  • "It's just a flesh wound" is now a nice skill, but in my opinion it was good already before the update. There isn't anything bad in this skill, it just seems somewhat funny now when looking the description and the skills name.
  • Scavenger's Focus was good before and whit the change it's still good, I'm just wondering about the Developer Update note which said that this is a stance now but it isn't when I tried it (maybe a mistake in the Developer Updates or not).
  • Incendiary Arrows was a very interesting elite before and I liked it. Now it's very nice too, but being almost like Barrage/Volley with lower targets but larger area seems fine to me but not removing preparations seems a bit weird.
  • Tryptophan Signet got the lower rank efectiveness change like other pve-only skills had and it's good, but I'm just wondering why the skills bug/description wasn't fixed (doesn't affect the adjacent foes) as the this aspect has been known for half a year now.
  • The last thing I'm wondering is that a update this large didn't balance the Penetrating/Sundering Attacks damage amount in pve as it is too high when compared to Power Shot (looking the recharge and the 10% armor penetration advantages, you will see that power shot is useless in pve at the moment).

That's all I have to say about the updates for now. Sorry about this being so long. CrimWanderer 15:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, the reason that Incendiary Arrows did not have the "removes preparations" clause added to it is because it doesn't have the extra damage the other multi-shot skills provide. It seems to in its current state hold truer to what a Ranger really should be doing anyway, which is spreading conditions as fast as possible. The radius on the attack, considering that it deals no additional damage as well as short bursts of semi-pressure, seems fitting in my opinion, and allows for more directly offensive rather than passive use of the Wilderness Survival tree. If you do decide you want extra damage with this elite, you have to use up your Preparation slot, so you are essentially stuck with the option of either short bursts of high degen, short bursts of mediocre damage plus average degen, or short bursts of AoE interruption with average degen. Any way you look at it, the skill's actual effects balance itself out. If anything needs to be done to it, the recharge time should be raised to 4-6 seconds, but to me it is fine as-is. Crenel 04:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Your approach, though, has the ranger trying to be too much and achieving too little, a "jack of all trades and a master of none". Its recharge time is in line with Barrage's and Barrage is a whole lot more powerful. Still I haven't worked on the updated incendiary arrows substantially yet, so I'm sure I can come up with a way of working with it BeeD 09:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Volley and barrage hit more foes, but remove preparations. All things considering, I would not say that Incendiary is inferior, but rather that it is meant to be used with preps to achieve its full potential. Also, there are plenty of mobs that are just too small to get the full advantage of volley/barrage. -- Alaris 13:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The reason to the statement, that Incendiary arrows is weird, is because atleast untill now spreading conditions (when playing as a ranger) has been meant to be challenging (you had to change your targets etc.). With this elite players can, quite easily and fast, spread conditions to multiple targets in GvG:s and cause pressure to the opposing team faster. It is true that you lose a elite skill this way (and maybe effectivenes against a single target), but still. I just feel that the idea of Guild Wars (the players skill in playing the characters and their builds is important) is starting to fade away (yes there was Ursan that made the game very easy, but atleast it was in pve not pvp). Anyways I'm not saying anything bad about this skill (atleast I'm trying to make my posts feel like this), I'm just concerned about the whole idea behind rangers and their skills (Barrage/Volley).CrimWanderer 20:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

A Suggestion For The New A-Net Philosophy

Here is a suggestion for A-net: Why don't you guys just put an "auto-battle" option into the game? It seems like you are trying to gear Guild Wars towards the underachievement crowd. I know they are very happy with Ursan because they no longer have to bother with things like reading skill descriptions, mis-aggro and what skills enemies are using. Think about how much happier they would be if they could just check in a box for auto-play and then just walk away or watch as thier characters dominate areas that once too skill and an explorative spirit to conquer. It really wouldn't be any more detrimental to Guild Wars than Ursan Blessing was...... and at this point the game has been weakened and devalued to the point that it is beyond any kind of fix anyways. Also you may as well let the people using Auto-Play keep all thier Loot and be awarded the same titles as the people who actually took the time to learn the game and earn the titles. This would make the crowd that likes Ursan very happy, and since they are obviously the only customer group you want to keep as you go into GW2 it will insure more sales. People that use Ursan don't really care wether they have earned something or not, they just want to have it. They are the type of players that buy in-game gold online because they want to have Voltaic Spears and FoW armor , but they don't want to be bothered by anything as pesky as having to earn them, after all they are all very busy and have too much of a life to spend the time necessary. Who cares how that impacts the honest players that earn stuff legitimately, right? If they don't want to be effected by stuff like that they can just choose not to use it ,right? I stopped playing Guild Wars a little while after Ursan Blessing took hold. Guild Wars no longer offers anything in the way of incentive to play beyond doing everything once. Titles and Economic achievements once provided for a great deal of extended play, but the implementation of Ursan Blessing turned them into a farce. I am not going to be buying GW2, or anything A-net or NCSoft produces ever again. I was watching for this nerf thofor the last year or so though, I knew they eventually would have to do something about it. The nerf shows some thought I guess, but it is way way way too little way way way too late. A-Net you have failed on a scale so epic that you can never hope to undo it. Enjoy the new community you have custom built for Guild Wars 2. I won't be there, I prefer to play games, not find ways to not play them.68.230.155.31 16:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Wildcard

Thank God you won't be there! This whole rant says you just want to be better than others, and how dare ANET create a skill that lets others have the same things you have without struggling and spending alot of time to get them! I am proud to say that I liked Ursan. This is a game! I play it a few hours in the week. I want to have fun playing it. That's what games are for. I don't spend hours reading the thousands of skill descriptions and deliberating over possible builds, because I have a real life! Since you're not playing anymore, maybe you can get a real life too. Start with job, and then find yourself some friends.... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:217.234.235.218 (talk).

Your argument is intensely hypocritical. You are a casual gamer, yet you like a skill that promotes grinding over 12 hours to start using in a group? Ursan is the epitome of non-casual gaming. You have to complete an entire campaign (or most of one, anyway), go over to Eye of the North and complete a good chunk of that campaign, then do a rather long side quest to get the skill Ursan Blessing, then spend literally hours and hours of your "life" farming points so you can join pugs that require r10 norn. How the hell is that casual? If you have the time to do all that grinding, you have time to read up on what specific skills do. My advice; don't use an argument like "I'm a casual gamer" when defending a skill that promotes grind over casual play. It just doesn't work. -Auron 06:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't be a complete fool. I never did all that grinding you're talking about. Ursan worked just fine at mid or even lower levels. While I know that some crowds spent lot's of time screaming for r10's, that never stopped me from using Ursan just about everywhere else. My Norn rank is not maxed, because I don't grind. I took a factions character who was 10th level to EotN, and got Ursan while still level 17. It was easy. No grind, no completion of an entire campaign (not even near), and EotN is still only 1/3rd finished... I am a casual gamer, and Ursan was a great skill for casual gamers. Ursan does not promote grinding, people do. Your advice is worthless because you obviously don't know what the hell your talking about and don't have the brains to educate yourself.... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:217.234.207.205 (talk).

I missed when suddenly a skill could be categorized as one for 'casual gamers'. Like Auron pointed out, being accepted into groups as an Ursan required a really high rank. Unless you're saying you play with mostly NPCs, then that's quite the life you've got, playing a 'MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER' online game. You could run anything for 'casual gaming' as you could run Ursan. Fail argument is fail. Diva 05:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Fail argument is a fail? Can you not even construct logical and meaningful sentances? You need to stop gaming and concentrate on school. Yes, I can, and do, run anything for casual gaming. It was never only Ursan. However, the fact that I run other things in no way detracts from my arguments. The only person here suggesting that a skill be classified as one for "casual gaming" is you, and that's not exactly a constructive argument. I do, in fact, often play with NPC's, but not exclusively so. I have been accepted into groups throughout the game despite having a Norn rank of only 6. Your argument fails because you are deeming to dictate to me what I have and have not done, what I can and can not do. That is simple stupidity. Worse, it is the kind of ignorant arrogance that spawns terrorists, nazi's, and other fanatics, including the wanna-be-elite, ursan hating fanatics to which you are attempting to belong. Oh, and yes, I do have quite the life. Successful in my career, a loving family, and long lasting friendships. Pity that you seem to identify the word "life" with a game....

I suddenly belong in the group that spawns terrorists and nazi's because I'm arguing against you concerning an online game and a wiki about aforementioned game? It's trolling, dude. Learn it, love it. Dense poster is dense. Diva 23:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

From what I'm seeing here, you both stopped discussing skills a little while ago... chill out, guys. If you think 217.234 is trolling, Diva, then you should also remember that responding is the worst thing you can do. It just gives something to troll about. And at 217.234, believe it or not it's possible to get a point across without insulting the other party in an argument. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 00:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Underworld Changes

Anyone else quite sick of the constant changes they're doing to the mindblades and the Dream Rider spawns?

The day I hate change is the day I consider myself "old". (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 06:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Lack of change is called stagnation. Figuring out how to work with the changes keeps the game somewhat more interesting, give you a reason to change up your build and playstyle. -- Wyn 06:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Changes are good. It's better that staying always the same. When things are always the same, people just go to a build site, download the build, and use it. There's no point in that. MithTalk 14:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Fixes and balances are always welcome. As for changes for variety, I think that's good too. Most casual players probably won't notice, but it keeps the farmers on their toes. -- Alaris 14:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If your old build can't handle the new changes, or if you're too lazy/incompetent to make the old build work, perhaps it's time to experiment with a new build? Crenel 05:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I, personally, am sick of them trying and failing to fix the economy... Which, to a large degree, is why I no longer play. -- Armond Warblade 15:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Why can't PvE characters use PvE skills In PvP?

Why aren't PvE characters allowed to use PvE skills in PvP? PvP characters don't have access to them, but PvE character's don't have access to the best items in the game. I don't like being slaughtered in PvP every time I go against a PvP character. Can you either allow PvE skills in PvP, or separate PvE characters from PvP characters into 2 different classes while fighting in PvP combat(Just to make it more even for all players).

Project Gnome 20:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

or just make a PvP character? ~PheNaxKian Talk 20:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Or just make your PvE character PvP worthy.~Phill Gaston ‎ 23:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

PvE characters have easy access to the best items in the game - a max damage sword with a good "inscription" may be bought from a collector or from a crafter for less than the price of a common armor set. Thankfully, the most expensive weapon in the game (Tormented stuff, I guess) has no better stats than what the NPCs sell everywhere. Between this and the green items (which you get as a reward for finishing each campaign), items are easy to obtain. Erasculio 00:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Because fighting a Cryway/Ursan/Imbagon team would be ridiculous --Metroid 02:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If you don't like being slaughtered, stop sucking. --72.253.203.101 02:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

PvE only skills are for facing the challenges that the PvE environment presents, especially to the more causal players, and not the challenges of PvP. So basically introducing some of the PvE only elements would be overpowered, not just skills, but like heroes in HA/TA/AB would be just as bad. Yukiko 03:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, it's because in PvE the monster levels go above 20 hence you will need a bit more ammunition to kill them. Otherwise, learn2pvp BeeD 13:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

don't start the same topic on 2 spots in the wiki please... Pulpulpullie 14:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

oh honestly -_-; 58.179.108.234 17:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The death of sin-split = death of the GvG-Assassin

With the new VoD-changes the basic sin-split concept is out of the game. So can we now try to find a way to actually implement the assassin class into GvG gameplay? Since, let's face it: splitting was the only thing assassins were ever capable at doing in GvG and now that's entirely revamped. Don't ask me what the f*** should be done, but I'm sure there are some people with at least a couple of decent ideas. Either that, or just /del the class entirely.--ILLUSiVE 14:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Not very experienced with GvG here, much less the new setup, but doesn't the rework of the Bodyguard basically make it easier for a 'Sin to be used as a Guild Lord ganker? (serious question, by the way.)

And at the very least, 'Sins are still quite useful in nearly every other PvP mode, so try to keep that in mind. GvG =/= the entire game. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 00:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

The actual strength from sin-split came in it's ability to easily score NPC-kills before VoD to gain a tremendous advantage at the stand. It's strength was never to take out or put pressure on the Guild Lord, although that was somewhat possible. And while GvG isn't the entire game it IS the main aspect, the focus, of the game, so the class being excepted from that form of gameplay is a definite downside.--ILLUSiVE 12:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

sin-split was bad. it will not be missed. --Readem 04:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

And I never said anything about missing it either. Just wanted to point out that (aside from scythe-sins) it was the only place where assassins where actually ever useful. (forgot to sign...)--ILLUSiVE 12:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Ignore readem, Illusive, that's about the normal level of his contributions to a debate. -- Salome 14:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Salem readem is right sinsplit was bad for the game and nobody playing it deserved to win (yes mistral edge included) Lilondra 17:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, Mistral Edge is still up in the top 20 even after sinsplit's dissolve. Just because they used a build that was more powerful than the cookie-cutter 'balanced' build doesn't make them bad players. A lot of bad guilds may have done well with sinsplit, but [Me] certainly wasn't one of them.--Kite 18:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

There doing well can be transelated as they found a new gimmick and get owned by top 100 guilds that run balanced because they even fail at spiking L O L Lilondra 12:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait, they weren't bad players just because they had to rely on an overpowered build to win? That's exactly what you just said, in very slightly different words. -- Armond Warblade 15:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

They did use it, but that doesn't make them bad players. The fact that they're still 19th after the collapse of sinsplit says that they were more skilled than their builds show. Alternatively, they may have found a new gimmick -- one of those two. I stopped watching them after they dropped sinsplit, which was at least interesting to watch. Anyway, I'm just saying that you can't judge a player's skill purely by their build.

By the way, what exactly made sinsplit a gimmick, as opposed to the "balanced" build? As far as I can tell, sinsplit just takes out the two Warriors and puts in two spiking Assassins in their place. If they had been W/A with shadowsteps, spiking with axes, would it be considered a gimmick? --Kite 19:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

No? Sinsplit was overpowered as hell. It abused VoD and, more specifically, ViO by utterly decimating any NPC opposition, essentially guaranteeing a ViO advantage. It abused shadowsteps (though the argument can be made that "using" shadowsteps is the same as "abusing" them) to break into an enemy base, decimate NPCs (which, because Assassin chains rely on energy instead of adrenaline, could be done much more quickly and with much less downtime than Warrior spikes could - it could also be said that the Warrior's spike would probably do about as much damage as the Assassin's if you included the autoattack swings to gain adrenaline, whereas the Assassin's spikes rely to a large degree on the bonus damage of their attack skills instead of their weapon's base damage), and, most importantly, get out without a problem.

Sinsplit further abused the power of Ineptitude, a skill with bad design in the first place - placing high damage and blind on a skill that will essentially only be used on targets under the effects of Frenzy was bad planning, especially as placing it on a frenzied target gives them far, far less time to react to the skill.

In bringing the Ineptitude mesmers, Sinsplit also abandoned the utility of the Elementalist and Esurge midline.

-- Armond Warblade 16:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I still don't understand why Arenanet hasn't implemented shadowstep immunities into the game. I would personally like some weaker skills changed to also cause shadowstep immunities, and shadowstep immunity for the Guild Lord and other significant PvP NPCs.

I suppose my biggest concern is that certain professions and skills seem to be excluded (read as 'nerfed to obsolescence') from Guild versus Guild to keep the status quo. For example, consider Ineptitude and Frenzy. It is my opinion that, while Ineptitude may be overpowered, instagib to Frenzied Warriors is not a proper reason to nerf the skill. A skilled Warrior should understand and accept the consequences of using Frenzy, and an unskilled Warrior should learn from such an encounter.

The "balanced" build shouldn't be coddled so it can stay the same forever. A build should be called balanced because, with skilled players, it can beat most or all gimmicks, not because it's "fair". If it can't beat the current gimmicks, it's not really a balanced build, only a "fair" build. I'd go into my "moderately effective gimmicks are essential to the existence of truly balanced builds" spiel, but I'd probably take much too long. It's already taken me more than an hour to type, edit, and improve this comment. --Kite 03:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Thursday 14th August

I downloaded an update but there is no mention of any changes here or the official site. I don't know when it went live I only just logged in. Anyone know what it was? 122.104.165.13 21:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Nope, nobody knows. There's always a delay between the update going live and Anet posting on guildwars.com and editors copying it to the wiki. Calor 21:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Update notes live now in the wiki.--Fighterdoken 21:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

This update fixes nicely the problem in GvG, that occured after the last update (teams just had to wait to 20min for the Guild Lord to walk from the base and then kill it). Now splitting and killing the enemy bases npc's are a viable tactics, and teams have to go to the enemys base. But I'm still concerned about the defences of the bases, even more now. Removing Guild Thieves, gate locks, Presicion Shots from archers and offencive skills from the Bodyguard just seems too much. Now anyone can go to the enemy base to kill the npc's and the player won't have any problems with it, as the npc's don't do much damage anymore (they even have dificulties against pets in 1 on 1 which is kind of funny). In my opinion something should be returned to GvG's, that where removed (not all of them, but something so that you have to be carefull atleast a bit in the enemy's base). Giving the rangers their Precision Shot back or Bodyguard gets it's offencive skills back would make the situation better (or atleast bring back Guild Thieves and gate locks so that killing the thief would stop the split for some time).CrimWanderer 10:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Giving the NPCs som "bang" back: sure, might be nice. Re-inserting the Guild Thieves: no, thank you... Always hated the little critters... And killing the theif was always an easy way to prevent a split in maps where it was needed. The way it is now, countering a split requires slightly more of an effort from the team on some maps than it used to, which is better in my opinion.

And also I believe it would be better if ANet took a look at some of the suggestions for how to improve VoD that can be found on forums. Or hell, just taking a glance at the feedback-pages would probably do.--ILLUSiVE 10:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion Guild Thieves where are good thing. Thiefs provided some strategy to the games (in the maps that had thiefs) in using them and in killing them. Split groups had to use them wisely and defending teams had to kill them in the right situations. Thieves hindered the effectivenes of splits (this I agree), but it was just one element in the whole GvG experience. You should remember that there where Guild Halls (Frozen, Nomad's, Druid's, Isle of the Dead, Burning, Imperial, Jade and Corrupted), that didn't have thiefs and because of this had differend styles of play (compared to the ones that had thiefs). Besides even though you killed their thief, it didn't stop the split if it was inside the base already (it only stopped the split from coming to the base for a while).CrimWanderer 11:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Macs fail at archiving

It's telling me that my command-X didn't cut more than one line out while I was trying to archive, and the next diff shows me reverting Kurd's change. The history page and tabbing through the diffs give totally different results. Someone archive everything from before this month, please. -- Armond Warblade 15:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not a problem in your computer, the wiki is having some problems these last days, mostly on the history pages and the recent changes. Erasculio 16:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

......whyyyyyyyyyyy -- Armond Warblade 12:18, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It's an issue with the server time randomly changing. For example, look at the timestamsp in this section. You posted your response to Erasculio three and a half hours before you started the section ;) ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 04:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL

Everyone that bitched on this page had extremely poor grammar. I'm afraid to speak out about nerfs because I might be associated with you morons who think I R GOOD NO?!?!? is proper english. Go back to ing school and learn. _RASK_96.25.96.218 01:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I am glad that you are interested in keeping the English language's grammar structure, but I noticed a few slight errors in your post. "I R GOOD NO?!?!?" should be in quotes and the first letter of "english" should be capitalized. In the statement, "...with you morons...", "you" is awkward and redundant, and should probably be removed. In the first statement, "...page had extremely...", "had" would work better as "has extremely poor grammar" or "has exercised extremely poor grammar", or a similar improvement. The beginning of the second sentence, "I'm...", is informal, and would be better suited for conversation than written work, and your use of vulgarities displays a vocabulary deficiency. --Kite 02:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Owned, No? ~Phill Gaston ‎ 06:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed BeeD 11:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

People here are making grammar mistakes because they're probably not from an English speaking country (USA/UK), such as myself. I'm 100% sure that the only language that you speak is English. How do I know this? Because you wouldn't have made fun of people's grammar mistakes if you had known how hard it is to learn and master a new language. Please do all of us "morons" a favor and crawl back to your hole. I'll surely get a note for this in my user page, but it's more than worth it.--ITAMAR 17:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Having taught at University level, I'd say that the opposite is more common. Sure, University level might be different. But in my experience, those for whom English is the 2nd language are more likely to try to use correct grammar, whereas 1st-language tend to become lazy and use all forms of shortcuts. -- Alaris 19:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It could just be that English is a dynamic language that is constantly changing and the text books can't keep up. Sadie2k 21:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Nah, i would go for Alaris option. As a non-english speaker myself, i have already enough problems trying to write readable sentences, so kinda hard for me to use shortcuts. Native speakers (from any language), on the other hand, know most rules, so they are aware of which ones they can ignore as to still convey their message to their pairs. Sadly, "their pairs" doesn't include non-native speakers.--Fighterdoken 21:59, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

What I said is not limited to English. The more confortable you are with a language, the more easily you can understand it even if it is written or spoken with errors. -- Alaris 13:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Plus, Americans are fat and lazy and must save as many keystrokes as possible xD (Also, Fighterdoken, I think you meant "peers" instead of "pairs") ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 14:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

If you can't read/write proper English, you must be retarded; it's the easiest language to learn in the world. The larry 15:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

English is not an easy language. Considering that it manages to make some sense at all is quite amazing to me, and I'm a native english speaker, I've found other languages more understandably grammatically and have an standard pronunciation, neither of which english really has. It has a ton of rules, and tons of exceptions to the rules,etc,etc. Just because someone doesn't have a full grasp on english doesn't make them less intelligent. And I also agree with Alaris' take on who generally uses bad grammar/spelling. 75.146.48.190 16:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

inglesh are fer fajits and joos liek yoo,,, luv ya all. piece, --75.94.77.148 16:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Wizardboy777 - my comment was not aimed at Americans in particular. It was aimed at the lazy. There are lazy people everywhere. -- Alaris 19:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, I would like to respond to a 'certain' comment..
English ain't that hard, I'm from the Netherlands/Holland (the country ruled by Harry Potter),
and I got to say that the english language is way easier to learn then the dutch one.
for sample: Past Simple, in english has about 100-150 exceptions,
most dutch grammer rules are just there so you can learn 'em to forget 'em and learn the exceptions!
Note that "to be" is just an annoying word in any language (to be (english), être (french), sind (german), zijn (dutch)).
Finally: there is a bloody reason for english being the lingea franca of today!
And NO it's not because the Britians like to send an army to every single squarre inch of the map! Btw: the text you see in the IMG ("Zoek de verschillen") is, translated to english, "Find the differences"..Soo, now you know that too =P - (kan also tel tis in krappie inglish =PP - 84.245.21.57 22:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC))

I think you all have more important things to worry about. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.116.150.78 (talk).

21 August 2008

As seen here:

Skill Updates

PvE and PvP

Elementalist

• Glimmering Mark: increased damage to 10..30.
• Glowing Ice: Energy gain reduced to 2..9.
• Icy Shackles: snare duration reduced to 1..10 seconds.

Ranger

• Disrupting Lunge: recharge time increased to 20 seconds.

PvP

Monk

• Smiter’s Boon: recharge time increased to 90 seconds, Energy cost increased to 25, duration reduced to 5 seconds.

AI Updates

• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to sometimes attack enemy targets from too far away.
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to improve their ability to recognize when their leader is fleeing from combat.
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.

Erasculio 17:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL is this real :P? "Smiter’s Boon: recharge time increased to 90 seconds, Energy cost increased to 25, duration reduced to 5 seconds." ???? xD Aljazya 20:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is fucking stupid. Izzy has to go, smites are now COMPLETELY fucking useless. 80.193.1.106 20:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It does look like it would have been better to just mark Smiter's Boon as a pve skill and be done with it. Sadie2k 20:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't even fucking broken in the first place! Nerfed the ONLY good smite skill in the whole fucking line that makes it useable. 80.193.1.106 20:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The smiters boon "change" is an act of vandalism and no real change. Refer to the change history. SniperFox 20:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

No, it's been referenced somewhere before. I read it in upcoming changes hours before the change happened. 80.193.1.106 20:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It's real. Incoming Developer Update about it as well, plus Regina (or Emily) will likely "officially" post these notes here. Erasculio 20:34, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

TOO FUCKING TRUE IT'S REAL. And this is RIDICULOUSLY STUPID. 80.193.1.106 20:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

CRY MORE NOOBS, PVE TIME FOR YOU. AGAIN.! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:213.91.181.103 (talk).

I've looked ingame and it indeed seems to be true. I hate the way the updates are always ridicously over the top and they're doing no effort at all to finetune things. SniperFox 20:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It has the same cost and takes 30 more secounds to recharge than meteor shower xD 81.156.148.195 20:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

They forgot to add Exhaustion, though. Erasculio 20:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

... And Rebirth style disabling. That'd be neat! :rolleyes:

They also forgot that it requires 3 hits of adrenaline. Natso 22:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems notable that Tainted Flesh heroes no longer do their job (outside of combat). There's no realistic reason not to have Tainted up 24/7, so that they can focus more on killing when combat starts. Anyone care to postulate as to the point of this tweak? Julian 14:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

It was the easiest fix for ANet so heroes would no longer "become confused and run in circles"...don't have them do anything and there is nothing to get confused over. -- Inspired to ____ 14:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

the AI Update really sucks its really not funny to be the only one attacking with a longbow and got beaten up by long range attacks from whatever while my heros stand next to me (also with a longbow) and do nothing (expect healing but that's not the right thing to do), even setting my target as herotarget or calling dosn't work. whats the point in 3 rangerheros who can't even attack from a distance everyone can with the same weapon? I'm a ranger i don't want to run into meleerange just to make my heros attack something. Please rework the hero AI and more important test it before you apply it to the game. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:80.142.208.223 (talk). 06:06:51 (cet) 6.Se.2008

What makes you think they would attack if you ran into melee range? Amazing how even something that works for three years gets put onto their list of "Things that need to fucked up yet before we can call ourselves truly incompetent." -- Inspired to ____ 02:13, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Joke? why not remove it?

Smiters boon pvp version, 25e 90 sec cool down for 5 seconds of double divine favor GG

Best update ever.

See, it has great potential now!--Bargaw 20:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I LOL'ed at that. They can't be serious. --77.243.44.26 20:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a 'Don't use this, try other thing'. MithTalk 20:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

lmfao, that skill was quite possibly one of the most useless skills in the game, except possibly on some sort of mutant smite/prot hybrid used by RA noobs or GvG monks with builds they got off of PvX Wiki and then asploded into utter stupidity to suit their own purposes... that update couldn't have been anything but a joke, could it? -- Vorith (talk•contribs) 01:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Because any build that's lame and easy to run obviously originated on PvX, right? You're horrible - go learn how the game works and try again. -- Armond Warblade 01:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

From my exp with pvxwiki, no build originates there, they just put up whatever any top100 guild/hb player does (usually a week or more after the builds original use). And even if the exact same build was already posted before the aforementioned "good" players use it, it is often trashed with smart comments like "lol l2p". The "new" build then gets 5-5-5-ed. So no, PvX isn't a place builds originate at, it's only a place where conformism rules. And either way Smiter's Boon got what it deserved, PvX or no. 89.172.148.162 22:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

So they completely destroy one skill that isn't even used that much and do nothing to about 20 other skills that are abused they are used so much. Hell now my ra/ab smite monk gets nerfs to SOJ and this. Why can't they just leave all the other classes alone and fix other longstanding problems 68.47.192.6 05:36, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

This skill was a huge problem.It dominated both in TA and in gvg.Not only with the pendulum monks though.When VoD got kicked ganking became useless so heroway actually got an indirect but huge buff (same with every other gimmick btw and yes VoD had to be dropped).So yes this skill diserved a nerf yes a nerf this severe.I think it shouldnt be used until they found something better and more balanced to do with it.For those who dont believe me try 4-5 smiting monks with double divine favor in GVG ;) Lilondra 08:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

We've had a win strak of 12 in GvG with hero way by using this skill in a our hero monks smite build. It was a bit overpowered, yes, but this.. this is just too ~much overkill. (at that time we were r500ish)85.144.149.13 12:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

The fact you say a bit OP clearly means you have no idea how OP and bad this was.Ill keep it simple it just had to be removed from pvp doing this would fix all the smite issues.(god freaky to say that).I know smiting line is quite crap without this but crap skills is better then OP skills (well atleast thats 1 thing izzy got right).For once izzy nerfs something good :) Lilondra 14:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

TA

Is saved from three smiter 1 r/w, and the 2 smiter 2 r/w with axe garbage that has been infesting it for a very long time. Thanks a ton for an amazing update, truly happy about this!!!

You're forgetting about this.70.251.251.24 20:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

God bless, Izzy. :P --76.25.197.215 21:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't listen to the haters Mr Cartwright, nobody of any worth is going to miss this skill. Apart from Foul Feast, TA might be a nice place to be again (not to mention the GvG gimmix). Much love from this IP: 87.194.98.16 21:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The problems with those teams wasn't the monks, it was the fact that the RaOs had constant Deep Wound, 2 "disabled for 20 seconds" and constant IAS and movement speed. Kiting and blocking were pretty ineffective against them. So no, this fixed nothing. Mow maybe people will go back to using a regular monk and a Ritualist so they can use things like Warmonger's Weapon (like in HA) since people are never going to try something new as long as they can do everything with a Ranger. 71.127.159.233 15:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

just admit it was a step in the right direction.Smiters boon made the smiting line quite baed.or it was broken or it was unusable and yes rao and escape should be ranged only but thats an issue i dont see izzy fixing because he finds the thumpers "intresting".Lilondra 16:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Sure it fixes smiting, but they never fix rangers. Forget all the other classes and balance rangers out (half what expertise does for starters)Why can't anyone relize that they are a problem and actually do something about it? 68.47.192.6 17:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

They just need to make escape and rao bow only Lilondra 19:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

if they halfed what expertese did then rangers would be completly useless, 90% of their bow attacks = 10 energy or higher and with 3 energy regen having 1\4th of the energy cost taken away would make even bows useless, and hybrides leaving rangers worse then para's after the nerf.

Expertise should do 4% to ranger skills, 2% to non-spell skills... =\ They'd stop going R/A, R/D, R/W or R/P for whatever reason the primary A, D, W or P wasn't good enough for them, which was probably because they can't manage their energy without Expertise. And honestly, I'd really like to see rangers get nerfed. Besides the Machine Gun skills, I can't say I ever have seen them get a real nerf like the other professions do. Or maybe Rangers are the only class Izzy understands, and that's the only reason he knows what to do with them. Could we get someone else to work on the other 9 classes? 71.127.159.233 02:31, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I dont think the real problem is expertise (decent players have better options then) but rangers have 100 armor against elemental damage (so anything that uses conjures is fkd) and escape makes them +- undefeatable by melee.Rao gives rangers the ability to have an ims and ias in one.So not only does it grant them bar compression but they can also keep both up at the same time without ANY downside (double damage frenzy,no perma upkeep or anything) so kiting no longer is a real counter (well it always is but you get the point) and they gain more adrenaline resulting in many knockdowns or interrupting every skill on youre bar without any effort (even a bot could do it) Lilondra 12:58, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

If they halfed expertise it would stop you kids from spamming, because thats all rangers are doing now. That would force you to bring a skill to deal with the energy gain you would need, but not as much as if you didn't have expertise. The bow attacks have had their cost upped over time to try to stop you from overusing them, all of the 5 energy cost attacks are better in the long run anyway, 5 energy 2x for x effect + damage or 10 energy for what amounts to less from both 5 costing attacks

Of course the guy above me points out the obvious "rangers are pratically immune to elemental damage, their stances make them immune to melee combat, they have defenses against both (interups, blind) and have their own condition removal skill of which works better than almost all others. Thats just to name a few things, so NO WONDER everyones a damn ranger, because everyone understands they are overpowered. If anet would just fix that then the game would fix itself.

Then again, the next combo that works well with whatever ranger gimmic crap is being or still run at the time will get the axe and rangers will still be flying high and spamming, running and generally breaking the game 68.47.192.6 00:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Leave the rangers alone in PvE. For PvP, I can't say that I would know. It's true that rangers can spam skills and have good defense... but it's mostly the skills they spam that are broken. Scythe skills that take away enchants for example have no drawback for rangers. You can't just adjust expertise because you'll affect all that rangers do, which would be a major nerf across the board. -- Alaris 04:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

The solution is sort of obvious here - finally make expertise affect only ranger skills. It should have been like that from the get go. Presto, no more touchers, scythe rangers, sin rangers. The only ones that would stay would be thumpers and axe or sword rangers since they're adrenaline users (but they have enough of a drawback with maintaining RaO). 78.2.51.82 18:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

While you're at it, make the extra energy of elementalists usable only on elementalist skills, and the extra energy of necros usable only on necro skills, and the faster cast speed usable only on mesmer skills. Presto, the fun is gone. Dual profession is a large part of what makes GW fun, because it makes such class combos possible. The job is to somehow balance the skills so that the odd class combos that come out of the mix aren't overpowered. But they should still exist. -- Alaris 01:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Well imo the sword ones can be balanced :p (and fun to play) the problem is rao,escape and interruptuing eveyr skill on there bar Lilondra 09:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you must have missed the notice that rangers are everywhere and the memo and what expertise does. The attribute alone makes the game unbalanced, not what fast casting does, or what energy storage gives. To put it simply its the best primary class attribute on a very hardy class because it can be used with almost 1/2 the skills in the game (that are not spells). Dual profession is great and the ability to create builds on the fly are some of the reasons why so many play guild wars. But this is all for naught when people mix the most powerful abilites of other classes with a class that has many advantages.

But none of this matters really, anet will never stop favoring rangers with all their updates. The last update in particular DESTROYED a simple and fun skill while leaving rangers completely untouched. Besides with this pvp only skill change cop-out they implemented you would think they would make the most of it, yet they are making less and worse updates than before. 68.47.192.6 22:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm arguing for more sensible balance changes. For example, if dervish skills that remove an enchantment don't give the desired effect if no enchantment was removed, then that would really reduce the incentive for rangers to use those skills. Except for a few builds, rangers are not overpowered. So you need to balance these specific builds. -- Alaris 00:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Anyone claiming rangers are OP doesn't know much. The only issue with rangers is that they can do a number of different things pretty good. Of course that is because they are a "utility profession" and that doesn't make them OP; it just makes them a profession everyone should have and be able to play. Oh, and something to complain about about when you realize you're not as good as you would like to be. :P -- Inspired to ____ 01:36, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

If you consider being able to act like another class and do a better job at it not overpowered, then take down your logic shield. Rangers aren't utility, their either spammers or posers basically. R/A, R/D, R/whatever, doesn't matter much they can do the job. I tell ya what, go play any pvp and face a team of all rangers vs a team without any (non-gvg and ha) and 90% of the time the ranger team wins. Why? Many reasons, too many to list in fact. Bow rangers can pull off 70-100 damage easy against soft targets, pet rangers normally run unblockable 100+ every 5 seconds, ect ect. This is all compounded by the fact that rangers had defense against everything except hexes, but a good ranger or any spammer and just shutdown any hexer with little effort.

There are many ways to fix them, one such way is should an interrupt attack not interrupt a skill, it is disabled for x seconds. Also I find it unbalancing to be able to use "ranger" expertise on say warrior skills, and it doesn't help that most updates nerf everything but rangers (see update regarding smiter's boon) I'm not sure why its so hard to make proper updates with this new pvp only nonsense.

Then again, they said this over on the dev updates "Smiter's Boon is a key skill in smite-heavy PvP teams that were generally overpowered..." Eh? Wounding strike, escape and various other skills are key skills in the current meta, yet they don't get changes? Was smiter's boon really more powerful than Wounding strike? Comon anet, prove me wrong. Next update slap everything around, i'm tired of the crap meta we have and many others are. Want some tips on how to change skills around? There is this fancy "arena net interaction portal" with excessive amounts off good suggestions for almost every skill. We are helping you do your job, now do it. 68.47.192.6 04:51, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

rangers arent overpowerd imo, just because they can roll alot of differnt builds it doesent mean that a ranger acting as an assasin could spike as fast as a sin, but do it differntly, more defencivly with blocks as they chain, or when a ranger is a r\w using a warrior wepon they only tank because of their stances so take a stance removal and they are screwed, when warriors have the unconditional tanking factor of their armor and special warrior insignia's like nights insignias ect, rangers arent popular because they are overpowerd they are popular because varity appeals to people and that is what a ranger has to offer. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.45.78.250 (talk).

Dear mr idontwannasign they ARE op with some builds.Imo the fact that some skills of the ranger are menth to be used with other weapons proves that anet or has no idea or acts like its not a problem.(yes i'm talking about rao).I have nothing against a ranger holding a melee weapon UNLESS :

• They block about everything making them theoreticly undestructible
• They have a IMS and a IAS at the same time making kiting and knowing how the game works extremly irrelevent
• They can remove an enchant every 2 seconds but even if they dont do it youre going to die anyway
• they interrupt every skill on youre bar by just bashing there head into there keyboard
• the player using the build is on weed and is still owning you because he used Any and most of the time more then 1 of these above mentioned reasons.

Now what we see is basicly any ranger melee build (some exeptions) anyone who disagrees with me can uninstall or burn in hell (and will probely do both).These builds are not "intresting" like izzy loves to say but imbalanced.Yes they are fun to play and no we shouldnt just nerf them for pvp.Any questions before i shoot you for betraying youre brain cells. (ow btw this is lilondra but i'm to lazy to log in ) 81.245.237.123 15:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

While i can agree on some ranger melee builds being OP others really are quite balanced. If i take lilondra points above,

• They block about everything making them theoreticly undestructible <-- Escape rangers yes these are OP.
• They have a IMS and a IAS at the same time making kiting and knowing how the game works extremly irrelevent <-- Im guessing this is aimed at RaO obviously, however, if you think about it, for RaO to work rangers require to use 3 of their skill slots to do it, they obviously need RaO, charm animal and then comfort for a res(or any other pet res) unless your only planning on using rao once? Or at least until the pet dies, warriors/dervishs etc... dont need to use 3 skill slots to make that happen. Imo rao is somewhat balanced, maybe it could be hit with a slight recharge nerf, seriously though the only things that makes rao overpowered are things like expertise/energyizing wind the latter which requires another skill slot or player.
• They can remove an enchant every 2 seconds but even if they dont do it youre going to die anyway <-- they cant remove enchantments every 2 seconds, unless your talking about OoA which again requires another person therefore doesnt count.
• they interrupt every skill on youre bar by just bashing there head into there keyboard <-- like those rangers with magebane/savage and dshot that just randomly spam them on you, sure that makes them a bad player and so does bashing your head on a keyboard hoping for an interupt to hit, a skilled player can make any interupt better. (warmongers doesnt count because this is just aimed at rangers right?) OblivionDanny 23:59, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Just to comment further:

• Let's be clear that rangers can't do all these things at once. We're in fact talking about several builds here.
• Interrupt ranger usually specialize at it, else they can't shut you down effectively. If they spam a bar full of interrupts, then they're not worth much else than that.
• Escape is an elite skill which at best you can maintain 2/3 of the time. Is it balanced compared to other elite defensive skills? Other similar skills only work against projectiles, and/or have conditions that make them stop working. Are these drawbacks enough?
• OoA is a necro elite. There are dervish skills that remove enchantments, but not every 2 secs.

Rangers can be frustrating to fight against, because they tend to bring unusual skill combos. If a warrior tanks, that's fine. If a mesmer shutdowns, that's expected. Assassins can shadow step. Rangers can tank, or shutdown, and they can move fairly well. But I don't think that they can do any of these better than warriors, mesmers, or assassins. -- Alaris 13:52, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually i see dshot as one of the best skills in game.Tanking is irrelevant if warriors could only tank then we wouldnt use them we use them because there fun to play (or we dont know you can kill things instantly with anything that wields a scythe).The fact is they have natural resistance to elemental damage AND have easy acces to block stances so if they do have that advantage dont give them the ability to do 3 2 1 i win ;) Lilondra 14:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Also even if rao isnt OP it is skillless play making it ask for a reform.Interupting everything on youre bar ==> axe variants.And the enchantment removal thing was actually me saying Rending touch is OP.I realise its not every 2 seconds but you get the point Lilondra *poke* 14:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

According to Lilondra:
-Rangers can block EVERYTHING.
-Tanking is irrelevant, lol
-scythes can instantly kill
Three strikes, you're stupid. I don't care if it's sarcasm. If you wanna argue a point do it in a way that doesn't make you sound like kid ("if you don't agree with me uninstall and burn in hell"). Real mature, everyone will certainly take you seriously. See I can be sarcastic too. Also, this game was designed from square one to be played with two professions, what is wrong with a skill having a suggested use towards another class? Find another game because this is how Guilwars is played.

Next time you want to post like an arrogant ass, at least try to be somewhat correct. Escape rangers are immune to damage due to 75% block and +30 AL vs everything else, tanking is a stupid idea due to the fact that there's no agro system worth mentioning, and scythespike crits can indeed take a guy from full 600 to dead in a matter of three seconds. (Without crits, it takes a grand total of five seconds.) -- Armond Warblade 16:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Would be nice of you if you got your own facts right before launching in and calling someone else an ass (ooo and I thought there was no personal attacks on GWW), 75% chance to block, still means 25% chance to hit != immune to attacks or damage, and Rangers only get +30 to Elemental damage, not melee, not physical just elemental. Anon-e-mouse 22:03, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Why is it that everytime someone makes a fool out of himself while trying to insult me he has to be a ip ? Also Armond thx.To mr no IP you got spikesupport btw so even IF i was sarcastic WS still reads : Kill target foe and all adjectant foes.For 3 seconds you feel like an ass.After 3 seconds you do it again cuz you dont have anything better to do with those braincells.Tanking indeed is irrelevant try going with an 8 man obsidian flesh team in any form of pvp i'm shure youll win.Try going with it in pve i'm shure itll go quicker then anything that contains an imbagon in pve.Rangers CAN block everything.When you spike with 3 hits and 2 of them fail youre spike failed.Will you l2p while i learn to grammer ?Lilondra *poke* 17:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Imagine, Izzy has to go through all this and you guys still spit in his face when he tries to fix something. -/Desi 17:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Here, let me quote this for you:

---

Expertise (Fast Casting) is stupid

I get +1 cool points for bringing an expertise issue to the Dervish balance page.

Expertise, as most of you already know, is stupid, just like Fast Casting. I didn't say it's bad, I didn't say it's boring, I said it's stupid. Why?

To compensate for how Expertise (Fast Casting) affects the costs (cast times) of Ranger (mesmer) skills, the good Arenanet Balance Company upped the energy cost (cast times) of all Ranger (mesmer) skills so that playing a Ranger (mesmer) would feel exactly the same as playing a Warrior (elementalist), minus the extra attack range (lolshutdown skillz). This makes Expertise (Fast Casting) a requirement to play the class instead of a bonus, as it is meant to be.

However, because secondary professions are allowed, Rangers (mesmers) can bypass their "requirement" and negate the higher energy cost (cast time) of skills on their bar...by not using them! Rangers (mesmers) who use non-ranger attack skills, touch skills, stances, etc (non-mesmer spells and signets) gain all the benefit of (insert broken profession here) with the added brokenness of not needing energy (laughing at interrupts). I call this dilemma "Primary Attribute Compensations."

Other classes have it to, but it's less obvious. Assassins have such shitty weapons because they count on critstrikes to make DPS something monks actually have to be awake to handle. Paragons' shouts and chants cost too much for any other profession to use.

How to fix this problem: Change primary attributes so that they are a bonus instead of a requirement to play that profession. Expertise could be faster skill nonspell activation, mesmer could be faster spell/signet activation, but lower the cast times of mesmer skills. Critstrikes could add damage to criical hits instead of increasing the chance. These ideas all suck (except the critstrikes one), but you get the idea.

In conclusion, the end. ~Shard (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

---

I think Shard pretty much summed it up.

Escape Scythe is OP. They nerfed the Scythe (attack skills, at least) because of this. Please don't nerf more Dervish skills; they really have no utility whatsoever (assloads of damage is not the same thing as utility), and are only a huge problem when utility is introduced through use of some other profession.

RaO should only work while your pet is alive. It's supposed to be "as one" figuratively. Otherwise, RaO = perma unstrippable IAS/IMS. This would be fine on a bow, but have you ever seen a bow bar with RaO?

100 base AL against elemental damage and OMGblocking are a problem on the same profession.

Rending Touch should be changed to:

• 5 0.75¾ 8 Touch Skill. You and target foe each lose one enchantment. If you are a Ranger, you die. If you are a Ranger and wielding a scythe, your entire team dies.

Having 3 interrupts on your bar makes it pretty easy to interrupt a lot of things by spamming, while doing good damage because you've got a 25% perma IAS with an axe.

Seriously. Nerf rangers. Or buff some other primary attributes so other professions can do the same thing. This isn't getting absurd, it's already there. Raine - talk 09:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The new AI "improvements"...

It might be just me but with the new AI henching has become ridiculously annoying, spells aren't getting cast, monks act like retards, and henching with a caster normally is next to impossible because the henches refuse to engage anyone who's not already within the radius so you have to be the first one to charge in and take the initial damage. Having them run into groups of enemies over half the map and running around like idiots could be a bother but at least they did something, now they just stand around like retards and pick their nose. I hope they rollback this crap or fix it because the overall efficiency has dropped below any and all reasonable levels. /rant Keneth 10:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

/agree, master of whispers is using and canceling res sig 50 times in 10 secs again.. :/ Pulpulpullie 17:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Have you considered putting your heroes on attack instead of guard? I tend to keep one hero (melee) on attack so that he can charge in while the others wait until he has gathered some aggro. This seems to be easier now after the update (I think), cause the difference between "attack mode" and "guard mode" has increased(?). Though, if using a full henchmen team - I would agree. I found it really annoying when I had all my three heroes set to "guard", because then I experienced the same problem as you do - no one would charge in no matter what I did, before I entered their aggro radius circle. The way I play, I find the update to be quite a good one actually.

That COULD be a good solution, except for one fact - who the hell uses melee heroes? The AI isn't nearly good enough to play any decent melee build so it's far more efficient to take melee henches and fill the important slots with heroes that actually make a difference. Keneth 17:06, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

does the first one have to be a meleer? i tended to aggro myself (monking) or let a ranger hero run in (margri, ba interrupter). - Y0_ich_halt 17:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

lol. What was that, your way of creating "super" hard mode - let's have the monk go get aggro? Then the melee characters are free to do the really important stuff like res the monk when it dies I suppose (well that is if that happens to be one of the things they'll actually do at the time). -- Inspired to ____ 18:21, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

when i play monk in a H/H team i prefer to use prot spirit+SoA or other prot instead of letting a stupid hench tank. my H/H teams are also all ranged. maybe because melee ai sucks, no? - Y0_ich_halt 08:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Along with the failing to Rez, not casting probably, not charging in. I also experienced:

• Heroes ignoring Target Lock
• Heroes/Henchies ignoring Flags
• Heroes ignoring manual activation of skills (eg: WoH on Ghostly Hero)

At first I thought it were my builds sucking..but later I found out Ogden was just cleaning his nose, Gwen putting up her make-up,
and Vekk was just doing nothing at all. I mean, why should you cast your Elemental/Air Attunement
while you can cast Lightning Hammer 4-5 times and drain your entire Energy Pool? - (84.245.21.57 21:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC))

Tie Break

Would it be possible to have the status of the tie break during a GvG ? We don't know exactly the amount of damage done on both side. For instance, the color of the clock would depend on the status of the tie break (red/blue for the team currently ahead - white for no winner). Thanks in advance and keep the good work. (This is my first post - Apologize for any inconvenience caused - Apologize for my english too). Zolth 14:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess they could add another tab in the Score Chart [O], currently we have 3 tabs:

Team Status, Party Health, Party Morale, so perhaps ANet could add a tab like "Total Damage Done/Taken" - (84.245.21.57 17:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC))

Tiebreakers are hilarious sometimes. One time my guild fought an enemy that, at probably somewhere like 23 minutes, charged our gate to attack our Guild Lord who was now marching out towards the flagstand. What they didn't realize - nor did I, at the time - was that we had capped the obelisk stand (it was Isle of Meditation) and their Guild Lord was also marching out towards the beach. He stopped right in the middle of the lion statues and just stood there while getting the %$^! Fireballed out of him. He didn't die, but 28 minutes came, and we instantly won, due only to good prots and one very unfortunate enemy GL. >_< -- Vorith (talk•contribs)

Good one, Anet. M. O. X. is dual core

Just like most people's computers. Hopefully Anet will consider optimizing Guild Wars 2 for dual-core technology. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.64.4.234 (talk).

Rumor has it his power supply came out of an older model, hopefully it's still got the wattage needed for some a powerful processor. :P -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 02:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Nah, as technology gets better, the power requirement goes down as well. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.181.3.164 (talk).

I feel personally that Anet has gone to far in a nerfing skills recently. Notably Ursan, Shadow Form and Unyeilding Aura. These changes have made myself and a number of the people that I play with very angry. I don't feel that Ursan needed such drastic changes. A minor change would have been less offensive to us. The same for Shadow Form. As for Unyeilding Aura, it used to be unique in it's ability to rez from far distances; now I would hardly consider it an elite skill. All these nerfs are making the game less fun to play, and more of a grind. I used to tell everyone I met about how this was such a great game. I don't anymore. That should tell you (Anet) something. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.8.64.211 (talk).

For one, you're BAAAAAWing about the wrong things - you have a problem that the devs are nerfing clearly overpowered skills. (Has it yet occurred to you that something being nerfed does not automatically make it bad? All three examples you pointed out are still extremely powerful.) For another, if you're going to try the "I don't tell anyone that this is a good game anymore" line, you're several months late - far better people than you or I got to it before either of us did. -- Armond Warblade 02:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Complaining about UA is just way to silly at this point. Don't like the "Nerf"? Fine then. Ask ANet to change it back to how it was. Might I add, "how it was" is a maintained enchantment that needs at least 4 D.F. or it might fail, kills the resurrected player when it ends, and doesn't grant any healing boosts. be happy with the "free Rebirth" effect, with Healer's Boon as a side effect. I'd say that's worthy of Elite status. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 04:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

They DID fix the FMOD library for dual cores. MithTalk 15:52, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Sad thing is that I've had a crash problem for years and have had correspondence with Anet about the crashes and they essentially said the problem was with me and not them... 68.51.83.92 22:55, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

And the debate Rages on......

To the development team:

I came here to rant about the nerfing much like everyone else that posts here. As I read through the posts one thing became very apparent; Generally speaking, the need to rant about changes of a given skill is motivated by the undeniable fact that nerfing interrupts a players style of playing. The style of playing that took hours, weeks and months to develop. A style of playing that was developed for any number of goals a player might have.

My rant was going to be about the change to Unyielding Aura. I believe, like everyone else, that my position on the subject is correct and there is no way to punch holes in my theory of why the skill should be rolled back to its original state. But I also believe that changes arent going to be made just because I said it should be done.

All of my views of how the game should be, could be and will be are all missing the most important element, I dont have all the information needed about the game mechanics and the need to keep the game "Balanced". I think I would pull all my hair out trying decide if a skill that originated in one campaign is fair in another campaign.

I dont have any insight into your Profit Model. But, as an outsider looking in I cant help thinking about the people that post saying they no longer play game because of something that was, or wasnt, done to the game. I keep thinking that quitting the game isnt going to be much a of speaking point in a debate when the person that your debating with already has your money! But on the other hand, with all the competition out there with other online games, game consoles and other forms of entertainment, the more people you have playing Guild Wars would have to be beneficial to your bottom line, whether you already have their money or not.

Considering all the knowledge that I dont have about the mechanics of Guild Wars and way the company makes a profit, i.e., your side of the fence. I do understand the mechanics of what happens on my side of the fence:

• 1. It was my money that paid for the game.
• 2. It is my computer the game plays on.
• 3. It is my internet connection.
• 4. It is me that is grinding away on this game.
• 5. I remember the excitement I had when I learned about Unyielding Aura an how it made the game less of a grind for me.
• 6. I remember how excited I was when I learned how to use Shadow Form so I could farm enough gold to buy that 100k + 35ecto mini-pet.
• 7. I am the customer.
• 8. I am the customer.
• 9. I am the customer.

As your customer, I suggest you start listening to your other customers and stop making their game play harder than it already is. Most of use grinded away at this game doing missions over and over again until we learned the right group to assemble and learning the right skills.

This is not threat, this is a promise, if you dont roll back Unyielding Aura, I will not buy GW2. Its my money and I will spend it the way I want to. In this case, not spend it the way I want to.

Btw, please send this to your investors, lets see what they have to say.

Rant over...

Suggestion for the game:

You have already made it possible to buy additional character slots. I suggest making it possible to buy additional storage chests. The very few people that I know that bought additional characters was for the purpose of making them mules for storage. For that reason, additional storage chest slots should cost the same as character slots. The benefits of doing this are:

• 1. More people will buy storage chest slots than character slots.
• 2. Database requirements would be less for storage than characters.
• 3. Bandwidth requirements would be minimal by having the chest slots tabbed and displaying only the last chest tab opened. Much like you already do.
• 4. Bandwidth requirements would be minimal by caching the contents of previously opened chests client side.
• 5. I envision integration would be minimal because the database calls are already written.
• 6. Beta testing would be minimal since the chest functions are the only coding be changed.
• 7. No extensive database development is needed, just a copy, paste and renaming of the current tables.
• 8. Client changes should be minimal. Adding which chest slot is open to the existing "which tab is open" shouldnt be difficult.

Btw, I like playing the game. You have been doing a great job. But I have to agree with most, some of decisions lately havent been the best.

Deep down, I know you wont change Unyielding Aura back, so do wish you the best of luck with GW2.

Markus Cadell Stone of Midguard[STAR]

66.41.45.7 05:58, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Careful, or they'll listen to you. I can see the next update now...

• Unyielding Aura: increased casting time to 3 seconds; increased recharge time 15 seconds. Functionality changed to: "Resurrects target party member (full Health, full Energy). End effect: this ally dies and leaves an exploited corpse. Does not incur a death penalty. 50% failure chance unless Divine Favor 5 or more." (developer note: This skill has been reverted to its previous form, as per the request of the GW playerbase.)

You only had a month to get into any sort of play style with UA, I might add. It wasn't buffed that long ago.

Also might be worth mentioning, while players like you complain about Guild Wars being too hard, tons more complain about it being to easy. The advent of Ursan teams killed a section of the player base off; it became just too easy to play through just about every area in the game. Shadow Form got buffed, nerfed, and re-buffed/nerfed. But it still works, I might add. You just can't use it to easily "cheat" your way through elite areas that are designed to be hard (such as The Underworld).

The current "nerf" to UA only did one thing; kill the silly gimmick builds that used UA as a reset button for runners. At no point in any "normal" team should you need to resurrect someone from across the map; if someone dies, you resurrect them right there, you don't leave them and resurrect them five minutes later halfway across the map.

I'm not going to waste time explaining "balance"; you've already pointed out you're not interested in that. I would just like to point out, that you shouldn't forget. You are not "the customer", you are "one of the customers." For every person here who rants and complains, there are plenty more players who are happy with at least most of the game. They just don't have any reason to rant about why they like it. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 09:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the original poster(and fixed the formatting). I will not be getting Guild Wars 2 after seeing the terrible job Anet did with Guild Wars. It looked good on paper but failed in practice. Not to mention I wasted over $80 on the first 2 chapters only to have the game go down the toilet. I could get much better games for 10-20 dollars with lower system requirements. Anet even said there would be an update yesterday and there wasn't one. Oh, and here's how Anet's profit model works:

• First, claim that the game is skill-based and grind free(they're actually lying as it's not about individual skill and there is a lot of grind)
• Second, state that there is no return policy(they don't want people getting bored after 2 weeks and asking for a refund)
• Make a lot of the most overpowered skill combos and best options available to people who buy all the chapters.
• Make the later chapters have better features than the previous ones. People who purchased earlier chapters must keep paying for new ones or lose their competitive edge.
• Ruin the game balance by hiring a complete incompetent to imbalance the game. Leave the state of the game in the trash bin for a long time to reduce people's opinions of the game, making them want to move to Guild Wars 2.
• Require that people purchase all chapters to be competitive in PvP. MAke the game team-based so that only the people with all chapters have a place in PvP since anything less than all chapters is letting the team down.
• The game becomes deserted as more and more people quit. Since it is team based, give people in the first 2 chapters lousy henchman builds and tell them that if they wish to continue playing Guild Wars reasonably, they will have to buy one of the later 2 chapters for heroes.
• 3 years later, announce that there will be no new content and you are moving onto the sequel, blaming bad game design. Essentially, throw away the old game and start with another one. Doesn't matter how much time or money people spent on the old one, the accounts are the property of Anet-you only pay for the service. Let the players QQ however much they want and trash your wiki page- you have absolutely no obligation to them since there's no subscription and you already have their money
• You don't matter to Anet. I don't matter to Anet. None of us do, in fact. Since they don't depend on us for their income(no subscription remember?) they can throw the entire game down the toilet without consequence for them as they already have the money we paid for their service(well, atl east it used to be service).
• Throw the balancing and skill aspects of the game down the toilet after stamping on them while claiming that you care about the balancing and are just "busy with Guild Wars 2" which is an INSULT to everyone who paid for the old chapters. It's like selling someone a product and you flip them off as you nerf their purchase into worthlessness.
• Rinse and repeat with Guild Wars 2.

I seriously do not like how Guild Wars is handled and their business model, and I most certainly will not be buying anything with the ArenaNet logo on it until they improve. I will not be buying any more of their products as they have repeatedly lied to the community and I do not support their lies. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.27.219 (talk).

"I most certainly will not be buying anything with the ArenaNet logo on it"

K, bye. 68.193.113.198

First of all, you should sign. Second of all "if you don't do X I'm not going to buy GW2 and whatever comes after it"... doesn't work. That means that a single person is not going to purchase their $40 game, and whatever expansions come out. They didn't lose any huge income, the sales will still add up, minus you, who figured that your boycott would have some kind of effect. It'd odd that you're making a threat like that, after showing how well they don't care about the player. On the whole I don't think you've made any point at all, and if you meant to make a point, you should restate it minus the threats to ArenaNET and bias toward in-game content. Natso 13:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Anet has annoyed a LOT of people by ruining Guild Wars. It all adds up.--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.27.219 (talk).

1. It was my money that paid for the game.

• no it wasn't, ure no one and even if u convinced 1000 others not to buy gw2 it wouldn't matter to arenanet.

2. and 3.

• What..?

4. It is me that is grinding away on this game.

• one of the worst things arenanet added to the game was grinding, it attracted a new kind of ppl who enjoy doing things over and over and over and over again repeatedly to get a cool looking hat after spending thousands of hours grinding.

5. I remember the excitement I had when I learned about Unyielding Aura an how it made the game less of a grind for me.

• ure a strange person.

6. I remember how excited I was when I learned how to use Shadow Form so I could farm enough gold to buy that 100k + 35ecto mini-pet.

• those things were meant to be hard to get, those things were meant to take time and teamwork, arenanet just decided to blow that up. now everyone can have everything and solo uw without even knowing what they do, prestige items arent worth anything cuz of ppl like u.

7,8,9.

• look at point 1.

and i agree with what natsu said, it's a bit childish, and pointless to treathen them not to buy gw2, if u want grind go play wow. --Blood Anthem 13:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

This is a great read about this issue. Erasculio 14:39, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

it feels really very strange, but i have to agree with blood here. - Y0_ich_halt 15:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Weirdly im finding myself agreeing with Blood. -- Salome 16:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't feel too strange or weird. :P Afterall, when you consider the utter twaddle posted by the two IP's it would be hard not to agree with anyone saying something different than them. -- Inspired to ____ 16:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

And the debate rages on... Thank you all for posting. Even with the ones that tried to poke holes in my post also managed to express their frustrations with the game and supported my position with comments like, "it wouldn't matter to arenanet". As far as it goes with the comment, "if u want grind go play wow". You are right, I moved on, but not to WoW. I found a another very exciting game to play. Its a MMG that is new to the market and I am enjoying the "grind" of developing a new character. I am reminded of an old adage, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time". I am just one, of many, that are dis-pleased. Its been fun, and sometimes it was real fun. I wish you all the best of luck... Markus Cadell

Whatever you learned with This and if you feel that something is wrong with the game, speak about it, even if me or someone else dont like what you are saying. Remenber that this sort of "very limited, look-alike and very unlikely" partnership of customers with the devs is a premiere: there is a suggestion page ! You want to leave the opportunity to show the publishers that players feedbacks can lead to a more attractive product ? If they allow you to give feedbacks, go for it damit ! Yes, common sens command that you never argue about what you dont like in the game with the devs, but nothing ever evolve if you follow the rules mindlessly. Even worse, it could lead the publishers to think that a feature is cool because nobody complains about it: what if you had followed the rules with Ursan ? It would be another contradiction to encourage players to express themeselves, then tell them that they should not. Yseron - a programmer who dont want to be programmed - 86.64.70.44 18:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Forgive me if I misunderstood what you were trying to say but I really did try. I don't know if anyone should get much from the "Manifesto" link that was posted. What I could get through before deciding it wasn't worth continuing mostly sounded like the confused posting of a disgruntled programmer from some other game that was not successful and blamed the unreasonable "expectations" of players for that. Anyway, no one here was arguing that there is anything wrong with a player expressing feedback on what they like and don't like in a game. What is wrong is when they carry on like their's is the only opinion and it is a personal attack if it isn't acted on by the developers. Also, it is ridiculous to make threats based whether the games features are the way they would they want them or not. Finally, as in so many things, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that is far from it necessarily being a good opinion. -- Inspired to ____ 19:11, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree. But i also agree that people should not mistake the link to the article with an incitation to stop making proposals or to stop complaining about what they feel is wrong. Yseron - 90.9.127.202 22:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Which isn't what the article is about. It's more a reply to the idea of excessive entitlement that is unfortunately too common these days, and often seen on ideas such as "I'm the customer, so I know how to create, develop and manage a game better than you do!" or "I have paid you a dozen bucks, so now I own your life and your family". Knowing your position - that of a single customer who may have an idea that may improve the game - is what the article is about, not telling people to shut up. Erasculio 15:37, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Of all the posts i've ever read on a forum or this wiki, this one has thoroughly pissed me off the most. Do you honestly believe teleporting across an entire map belongs in this game? The purpose of a level is to face the content of the level and overcome it. I don't really give a shit how much money or grinding you put into the game, you were not meant to teleport across entire maps. Period.

"my position on the subject is correct" Really? First of all, what is your position? that you can't teleport anymore? Well darn, now you actually have to play the zone. Second of all, you admit in the next paragraph that you don't know what balancing even is. I'll tell you; TELEPORTING ACROSS THE MAP ISN'T A BALANCED FEATURE. Your "position" isn't very "correct".

"I am the customer." Let me explain what a customer is. A customer is someone who purchases something. In this case you purchased Guildwars produced by Arena Net. And that's it, a customer has no other meaning. Fortunately, Arena Net DOES listen to their customers and is kind enough to take that feedback and make or change designs with that feedback in mind. Unfortunately, many people have come to believe that this means their word is important and that Arena Net is supposed to listen to them. I also really wanna know what kind of point you were trying to make saying it's your internet connection you're playing the game on, or that it's your computer...

"stop making their game play harder than it already is" I believe the correct complaint regarding Unyielding Aura would be "stop making the game effortlessly easy for exploitive bums". You should not be playing video games if you don't want to put up with challenge or difficulty. What is so hard about this game that you feel the old Unyielding Aura was a good feature?

"if you dont roll back Unyielding Aura, I will not buy GW2" I stopped reading right here. I hope you don't buy the game and I hope anyone else who's ever made such an asinine and foolish 'promise' doesn't buy it either. I'm sure a lot of people would be glad to have that kind of trash mentality out of the community. Go ahead and refuse to buy an entirely different game because you can't teleport anymore, don't expect anyone to care though. First of all, you won't be hurting Anet, you wouldn't hurt them or 'convince' even if you had everyone in your city, their mothers and their brothers not buy GW2. Second of all, you forfeit any and all reason for Arena Net to listen to you at this point. If it were my decision I'd be typing your IP into the GW2 ban list right now, since you're so intent on playing the rebel card. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.193.113.198 (talk).

^ agree with Mr Ip there. The mentality of "Rule 1: The customer is always right. Rule 2: If the customer is wrong refer to rule 1" no longer applies. When I read the puerile nonsense that accompanies any update, I wonder how the hell any developer gets the motivation and inspiration to continue my job. They often don't get constructive feedback and then they have to put up with personal attacks. I'm not surprised that Izzy doesnt check his user page anymore and resorts to conferring with a select few who give him some sort of feedback. Oh as for not buying GW2 just because of your opinion that they're not working GW to your liking, that's childish to the point that I must say, get the hell out of GW and stop polluting my netspace. --BeeD 12:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

To the development team:

Great job. I loved playing the games, all 4 of them. There may be some things I would have implemented differently, but these are few and quickly forgotten, considering that you have made the best game currently out there. If you maintain the same anti-grind philosophy (because GW has relatively little grind) and dedication to quality & fun, I will definately buy GW2.

-- Alaris 13:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

This is Quite sad... (having read this way after the topic chain was active) there was a poster up there who said that making each new game better then previous ones was bad... lol. And also to the same guy.. the game advertised "no grind" specifically on GW, the original (prophecies). At the time, the only grind I could think of was leveling (and maybe attribute refunds, but those were swiftly removed). I read somewhere that the devs never meant so much grind to be in the game. But let me say, I will be buying GW2. Underated Skill 22:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

New space yay

The fact that it doesnt matter to anet wether we complain is true.We dont owe them anythin and they dont owe us anything.Actually most people have played this mmorpg much longer then there average game (like me).I loved the concept but hate the many mistakes they made.HOWEVER youre forgetting that whenever they lose a gw player here a puppy dies they also lose a gw 2 player.Lots of people will buy gw 2 But some wont buy it had a bad balance,some wont buy it because they never had fun with gw (may those people be fed to the evil rabit) and some people wont buy it because of what they've heard they are going to lose the essence.What made guildwars guildwars.LVl 20,only 1 race,... However this is OUR choice if they f!k up fine do so we have nothing to do with that.But i wont buy gw 2 this way.

Also its quite ironic how i am trying to stop ppl from ranting with this text while the only thing i do is ranting Lilondra *poke* 04:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

i'll buy starcraft 2 and be happy with it... - Y0_ich_halt 14:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

"i wont buy gw 2 this way"

K, bye. 68.193.113.198

Ugh, I may rant about certain things, but never, ever do I rant that stuff that was an exploit be re-instated. If anet changed Unyielding aura to radar range then that would be a great compromise and show they think/care about its players. Time will tell 68.47.192.6 00:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

"Yeah I'm not sure why it got changed to earshot and not radar, I'll look into this, it should be radar range, and it should pick from targets within range first. Izzy @-'---- 01:26, 13 September 2008 (UTC) " I don't know how to make links on here yet. Go to Sept. 10th's talk page. 68.193.113.198

BTW i'm not talking about the last update you idiot ;) i loved the last update.I think the nerf to shackles was not rly the way to do it.But w/e gogo izzy nice update Lilondra *poke* 07:34, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

How about we refrain from calling people idiots even with a wee wink after the fact? -- Salome 13:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

speaking of nerfs - rit spirits

Hi all. Just dusted off my rit. Havent played it in a while and wanted a change. I understand why a single rit can't put up multiples of the same spirit, but why can't there be more than one spirit of the same type in a party? I see no restriction like that on a necro.. as long as there are bodies multiple necros can have flesh golem, or shambling horror. And they are mobile, spirits aren't. It sucks to have a wasted skill on my bar when i'm with other players, but can still go to town and change, in pve. In pvp, particularly mission pvp, like Aspenwood, the team gets cranky if you leave before the match is done. Also, unlike AB, there is no way to coordinate to prevent duplication. Aren't there other balances that could be imposed instead of only one spirit type per party? Ritualist seem to be the only class that gets cripple if you have more than one of them in a group. Given the long a cast times on many of their spells, it is getting trickier and trickier to play an effective rit primary, at least imho. 74.67.145.123 17:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC) milo

Same limitation applies to rangers and their spirits. Before the release of Factions, some builds exploited those spirits and led to a very imbalanced build in which a group of rangers spammed a lot of spirits in the map, leading to body blocking and other concerns. Erasculio 17:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, didnt know that. I'm not a very good player, i admit that freely. These nerfs may make it balanced for the hardcore gamers that excel at this sort of thing, but kills us casual players. 74.67.145.123 17:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC) milo

Why would you need more than 1 type of the same spirit anyway? Most of them are condition based making knockdowns longer or other such milarky. The direct damage spirits can be compensated for by bringing a range of different spirits. As for AB and fort aspenwood and the like, it might be an idea to not make a heavy spirit spamming build anyway due to the nature of these areas. If you wish to talk about ritualist unbalance then talk about the completely overpowered weapon spells. With absolutely no way to strip them, short recast rate, low energy req and basically mega spammable, they are a balance nightmare. -- Salome 14:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

A really good idea is to simply ask people to ping their skillbars when you join up. If you see the other Ritualist using some of the same Spirits as you, take an extra minute or two to switch up a bit. If you co-ordinate the skillbars, two Ritualists in a group can be quite a nasty team, allowing you to have an even bigger selection of Spirit effects out there (not to mention, even more Spirits in play for skill effects like Mend Body and Soul). -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 14:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

In PvE, fine. But in AB, you just can't know what the other 2/3 of the players bring. Besides, attack spirits should be allowed more than 1 instance if multiple players bring them. Finally, Salome, weapon spells are not broken, they are balanced. They are non-stacking, and if you maintain them on all your team members, you're run out of energy fast. Besides, if they'd be so broken, why are there so few ritualists used instead of monks? -- Alaris 16:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I may be mistaken, but I believe we are allowed to have more than one spirit per instance. The NPC enemies do it all the time, and we can do it as well - just take a long lasting spirit and cast a second copy far from the first one. I don't remember what's the limit, but it's still within compass range. Erasculio 16:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I find it odd to point you to the other wiki, but Guildwiki's range picture shows how close you can get spirits. --JonTheMon 16:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine a Attack Spirit Team of Rits (Say 2-4 of them) would be brashly overpowered in many PvE areas... The only thing stopping spirits from being completely dominant is their inability to focus on single-targets in big PvE mobs... multiple atk spirit summoners would eliminate that... along with Painful Bond you have a dead... everything? Adding on I think they should do the whole split thing and give them the inabilty to burn in PvE... they already go down in a couple of hits/AoE 58.179.98.174 07:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

You're pointing out that a team of Spirit Spammers would dominate PvE, then suggesting to make Spirits more resilient?

Anyway, there's not a ton of Burning sources in PvE, so they don't die that quickly. Add in Summon Spirits, which both heals and scoots them out of AoE spells... I really don't think there's a need to remove the Burning. And adding the ability to put down multiples within range would just make them too powerful (a few Wanderlust in action would pretty much own anything). As it is, you can still put down multiples with overlapping ranges (so long as they're not within each other's range), and as for all the defensive spirits, you really only need one each up at a time, which makes it easy for one or two Spirit Spammers to maintain those ones. No reason to make a currently balanced build into some sort of degenerate team build (like Paragon teams). A single Spirit Spammer can already add a good amount of damage and defense all in one shot. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 03:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Pikin

What in the world is the new update talking about? 75.61.32.166 22:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I assume that, when all Kamadan NPCs got converted to Corsairs, they accidentally removed Pikin instead of giving him a pirate look. They just mean to say they brought him back to Kamadan ;) — Why 22:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

When did they do this? --Shinigami King 03:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

International Talk Like a Pirate Day. -- Gordon Ecker 04:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... I missed that event! Sounds fun! I love ITLP Day! --Shinigami King 04:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Would've been fun to have a quest to save the NPC ;p Ralmon the Gen 01:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

They dressed up an error. calor (talk) 22:25, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Aye, señor, that was understood. It still would have been fun to dress the mistake in a quest that would have resulted in the return of the NPC after, say, the weekend. Mistakes happen, but fixing them in a fun way can be nice. Ralmon the Gen 02:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

It would but were talking about anet here btw Lilondra *poke* 17:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

protect?

I was looking at the history of the page and I saw all the vandels, should the page just become protected? -- WoB 03:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

It's only been vandalized once in the past month. -- Gordon Ecker 04:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

No as its not out of the Administration, or the flock of recent changes watchers hands. Dominator Matrix 04:51, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Leah Stone

About time they fixed her path... three and a half years late. Jink 23:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Update - Friday, October 24, 2008

• The assassin class has undergone a class revamp, because we felt that the dagger system has become quite weak and unflexible over the course of time.
• Off-hand and Dual attacks can now be executed without meeting a prerequisite, however a penality is incurred:
• An offhand attack that is used without a lead attack will deal 33% less damage, have its recharge increased by 5 seconds and durations of conditions inflected by this type of attack will last 15% shorter.
• A dual attack that is used without an off-hand attack will deal 66% less damage (twice), have its recharge increased by 10 seconds and durations of conditions inflected by this type of attack will last 30% shorter.
• As a result of this, many dagger skills have had their cooldowns reworked.
• We hope to have made the assassin class more flexible and we will continue to monitor the class over the course of the coming weeks.

If only it was true...--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:62.158.90.231 (talk).

thats just too complicated to be real--Justice 02:14, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Bug

Gate of Desolation mission seems to be bugged. It crashed my GW twice by now, when the second group of mobs were supposed to come (right after you enter) — DarKNeSS (Contribs) 09:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

It's probably not an actual bug, there might be something wrong with your system. I would check your system components for any problems. --Shinigami King 19:03, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Everything seems fine. I only get this crash on GW, not on other games, and currently only in that mission... — DarKNeSS (Contribs) 10:52, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

If you've finished that mission before then it might be a bug. But it needs confirmation from other people. 60.50.85.228 11:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I've done this mission various times with other charachter, so yes... But it could also be some trouble cause I had to reformat my hard drives lately because of a heavy virus infection. I saved GW.dat on a cd and put it back up on my comp when everything was restored again... — DarKNeSS (Contribs) 13:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest that you delete your GW.dat and re-download everything using the -image option. Maybe your GW.dat went corrupt somehow. I've played this mission with all my chars (I have one of every class..), never had a problem there. -- Buffy Summers

AoG

Are they never going to fix Avatar of Grenth? I can't count how many updates have gone by with AoG still laughable. At LEAST make it deal cold damage, so people can combine it with conjure and be only a little more useless than it currently is. AoG needs a PvE/PvP split to be honest. 75.61.32.166 19:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

From the Avatar of Grenth page:

Elite Form. For 10...74...90 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

What were you saying? Being essentially completely unblockable is pretty good, and you do deal cold damage. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 20:44, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I think he's saying the bug that causes this skill not to deal cold damage is still active. I truthfully don't notice the difference, but oh well. -- Wandering Traveler 20:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Aah, hadn't seen that bug. Still, unblockable is nice, even if Wounding Strike is still better at the moment. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 20:54, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Great, they've gotten around to fixing the cold bug but it seems they were too busy nerfing gazes to oblivion for them to have also made it usable in PvE. I suppose we'll have to wait another year before they decide that it would be nice if an elite skill wasn't more useless than standard Rit weapon spells. Keneth 15:08, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Where have all the update notes gone?

The update was hours ago, ANet. You used to quene update notes on wiki and hit "save page" as soon as the update went live. We've waited, what, four hours? Six? How much longer do we have to wait?

Last update was almost as bad, and the one before we had to wait at least an hour, as I recall. Have you guys forgotten the meaning of promptness?

-- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 01:53, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I think this a small, and out-of-band update which usually takes hours/days for it to appear in the notes. Dominator Matrix 02:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Give them a break, they're working on GW2, even though I'm not buying it unless they let me transfer characters, Plus they're working on everything else probably. Like the new mask that's coming out and perfecting everything and such. Oh yeah and watching the noobs in RA/GvG/HA carefully. -- Halogod35 02:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

They can work on GW2 all they want, but they've not rescinded their statement that they put a great deal of care into each update. It's not hard to type up a quick list of things that happened - takes maybe five minutes. Besides, before the past month or two they were still pretty prompt with update notes, and they've been working on GW2 for a lot longer than that. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 02:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

It's always the same with stealth updates. 91.117.187.8 08:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

[smirks at "they're working on gw2" comment] You know ... its would be great of they had some people... you know, maybe a handful that would, I don't know, look after Guild Wars, do little updates and balancing here and there... You know... who'd not be part of Guild Wars 2 really, more focused on Guild Wars. They'd be responsible for updates and the likes. Ohhhh... they have that. Well, ok then ^_^ 000.00.00.00 09:25, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Armond, are you serious? Anet always go back on their words. Do you remember what they said about skill splits? They proudly stated that Guild Wars is one world and all the skills are the exact same skills and they won't split them no matter what! They were so proud of that back then. So don't take them on their word because by now it's worth...you know what. --Itamar 23:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Chill out, everyone. They updated a few sounds for the Mad King. That is all. Check out Lindsey's journal. I'm sure Anet wasn't trying to ruin your year. -- Lord Ehzed 03:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

@ Itamar: Didn't they say they couldn't scale knockdown too? O.o -- Halogod35 04:01, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Izzy's the game balancer, he isn't necessarily a programmer, and even if he is, he wouldn't be the only one. Maybe the statement was true the last time he checked but someone figured out a hack to bypass the limitation. -- Gordon Ecker 05:06, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Magi Malaquire

The Mad King has captured him during his visit to Lion's Arch! 82.217.189.101 19:35, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Not again.. Didn't this happen last year too? - anja 19:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I think so... --Shinigami King 19:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

undocmented Essence of Celerity nerf?

The essence still says 25% speed/skill recharge increase in ithe description on the icon, but when you use it it's only 20% for both. 217.234.239.2 16:35, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

soz, it was documented, i didn't read that through..... 217.234.239.2 16:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

No, it wasn't the Update note is a Wiki note, that is, a note added by Wiki editors that wasn't in the original Update notes found in the Guild Wars site. MithTalk 18:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

OMG

will the already vanquished area give faction for those who have already done it? --71.141.248.30 00:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

This update is so big, I'm almost afraid to log in for fear of bugs! ;) Interesting they did this on the release-day of Wrath of the Lich King (WoW) :D Cavalier 00:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I've asked this and a few other open question on Linseys talk page. I hope we will get official answers soon. -- (gem / talk) 01:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Great update, Anet, and I'm thankful, but lol.... you've gone book crazy. I now have about 10 books on each character, and 18 characters. How about drastically expanding storage? I've no place to hold anything else. This is punishing those of us who actually bought additional character space. 217.234.246.148 01:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I didn't notice the WotLK release today, maybe that's why Blizz sent me and e-mail giving me 30 days of free trial. It IS rather odd they did this big update today, I think they must've planned it on purpose. But why would this stuff keep people from going to WoW?--Shinigami King 01:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

You don't need to carry the books in your inventory. Do the missions, then get the book and purchase the pages for the book for 10g each. Saves a lot of inventory space and basically costs nothing. -- (gem / talk) 01:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

That's the point after we get enough characters with books in storage, the storage starts filling up! Need moar storage :P--Shinigami King 05:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It's getting ridiculous, so many new stuff to clutter our inventories got released since last storage update (note that whole EotN didn't add even a single tab) it's just completely impossible to keep them. LOTS of new books and 8 new kinds of summoning stones, gg, right after a loooong Halloween with so many different drops. EotN books already take quite a lot of space, I'd rather use for another 15k armor set. Buying missing pages is not a viable option - it's very unreliable, didn't work for me as many times as it did. So should I buy another char slot for another mule, a bookstore guy, and have to relog twice to move some books before doing every mission? Absurd! --83.21.4.250 09:31, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

/Agree 88.131.17.70 09:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

How about some kind of bookbag or bookcase? LiquidShorts 12:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It seems that it's not like that. But just imagine it... An area with 500 monsters... 50 points each... 25000 points! Wow! MithTalk 14:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Why on earth do you have to carry a book for every possible mission at all times? Just carry books for what you are working on at the time. Misery 15:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

and do what with the other books? That is why people want more storage. Did you miss that point? 217.234.246.148 19:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Buy the pages for 10g? Is there something I'm missing? o_O Keneth 19:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

About 90g per page... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:65.5.80.98 (talk).

Thanks for the free faction.

Too bad when I try to spend half the free faction obtained the other half is reduced. So yes, thatnks for the large sum of faction, too bad we only gain half a benefit from old chars. Aro 02:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't agree with you more. Crediting faction owed as per the update is nice, but most players are smart enough to not accumulate large amounts of unspent Luxon and Kurzick faction at the same time, especially if they are interested in working on the titles (that was what this update was centered around, right?) I wish someone would have thought of this before making the update live and would have at least allowed us a brief period where we wouldn't be penalized for handing in faction to both sides. Mswheele 03:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

That's the point of choosing an allegiance. You've always been penalized this way by the opposite side. -- Wyn 13:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure, but you could take that into account, and spend all your faction for one alliance before starting work on the other. Now you get a lot of faction for both alliances, for work you have actually done for them. But you can only spend half of the rewards for that. Cavalier 14:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Yow! All those points you worked so hard for were just given...just gone? -- Inspired to ____ 15:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm using this opportunity to befriend both sides on all of my characters, since I've got well over 10k on the account. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 15:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes I worked for it. The quests that gave the faction in the first place were done. 198.53.24.20 22:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

You did those quests without expecting a reward like this in the first place, so why should it matter now if you only get "half" of what you "worked for"? -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 22:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It might have something to do with the fact that some or all of them are one time rewards. Etienne 05:11, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

                       TC) 

"...so why should it matter now if you only get "half" of what you "worked for"?"

A company needs to hire you stat for HR. I'm sure any would love to have that type of payment method.

Balance update? -.-

Title update is okay and all, but when will we finally see some changes to these skills?

• Shield Bash (!) (AB)
• Disciplined Stance (AB)
• Word of Healing (!) (OP)
• Dark Escape (AB)
• Visions of Regret (!) (OP)
• Rending Touch (AB)
• Shove (UP)
• Quivering Blade (UP)
• Signet of Toxic Shock (OP)
• Augury of Death (OP)
• Hundred Blades (UP)
• Quick Shot (UP)
• Crippling Anguish (UP)
• Victory is Mine! (UP)
• Skull Crack (UP)
• Poison Arrow (UP)
• Amity (!) (UP)
• Keystone Signet (UP)
• Signet of Midnight (AB, unlinked)
• Whirling Axe (UP)
• Primal Rage (!)
• Auspicious Parry (UP)
• Archer's Signet (UP)
• Boon Signet (UP)
• Ray of Judgment (!) (UP)
• Word of Censure (UP)
• Order of Apostasy (UP)
• Recurring Insecurity (!) (UP)
• Shared Burden (UP)
• Shatter Storm (UP)
• Seeping Wound (!) (UP)
• Shroud of Silence (!) (UP)
• Clamor of Souls (UP)
• Magehunter Strike (UP)
• Soldier's Stance (UP)
• Rampage as One (OP)
• Scribe's Insight (UP)
• Stone Sheath (UP)
• Fox's Promise (UP)
• Wastrel's Collapse (!) (UP)
• Ebon Dust Aura (OP)
• Wounding Strike (!) (OP)
• Onslaught (UP)
• Distracting Shot (nerf disable to 15 sec honestly imo, or link disable time to Expertise Rank, 4+rank)
• Fixing Paragon Leadership and restoring Warrior shouts
• Buffing Spawning Power so N/Rt isn't better
• Buffing Smiting Prayers by adding conditions and other non-armor-ignoring stuff
• Fixing Dagger Chains

The ones with an exclamation mark are either so over-/underpowered/abused that they need the most attention, obviously.

• AB = abused - OP = overpowered - UP = underpowered --62.158.84.236 07:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

This is not the place for this, your comments regarding skills and skill balance belong on the skill feedback pages. Just click on the ArenaNet interaction link in your navigation box. Thanks! -- Wyn 14:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

You know, anytime anet wants to add 50% failure for air magic 4 or less for shock would be fine by me 68.47.192.6 17:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Yay Storage Clutter

Seriously, make it all one book, PLEASE. Or I won't even bother with it. Denizen Zero 18:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

What do you have from storing the books anyway? poke | talk 18:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I have 16 characters. All of them have the hard mode or normal mode books and the bonus mission books. Some still have MOX books because I can't be bothered to do the MOX missions 16 times all at once. What do we have from storing them? The freedom to do the missions we want to do when we want to do them, and that without sacrificing up to 10 slots per character. I would think that so obvious that I have to ask if your question was serious??? 217.234.246.148 19:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, you seem to just be making a minor problem into a big one for no good reason. For example, why continue to carry around a dozen plus MOX books when you won't use them. If you insist on keeping every possible thing for every character, don't complain to ANet because you're a packrat. It's highly likely that ANet could never give you so much storage that you would not be able to find a way to fill it. Limited storage is necessary because it forces players to examine what they are holding on to and prioritize. Also, it may be a good idea to ask if you really need a little more experience and gold? -- Inspired to ____ 19:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm a packrat? Obviously, you do not know me. I fully intend on using those books. I don't keep every possible thing for every character. That you could make such wildly rediculous assumptions based upon absolutely nothing demonstrates that you are only following a personal agenda, pushing your personal opinion totally irrevelevant of the absence of any facts. It's a sure sign of utter and contemptable stupidity. Please go away. 217.234.246.148 20:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Lol, according to your own userpage, you're the packrat. Your own words.... 217.234.246.148 21:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Just trash MOX books. When you're ready to use one, get new one. Simple as that. Same as all other books - only hold what you're actively using or pursuing. There's a game mechanism to allow you to get new copies anytime, ya know. – Barinthus 21:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

would that I could... Unfortunately, I'm actively pursueing them all. My 17th level Sin, for example, is currently working her way through all three campaigns and EotN, and yes, she obviously hasn't got very far in them. One of the good things about owning all the campaigns is the ability play in the campaign that you currently feel like playing in. While I wouldn't recommend this to a new player, someone who has completed all the campaigns on a half a dozen of his/her characters, will become quickly bored by the same old storyline - regardless of how good it is. 217.234.246.148 21:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I make no claim that I'm not a packrat, keeping way to much, my storage and character bags are always full and I'm always having to sell/throw stuff to make room for more stuff. And, yes some more storage would be nice. But, that is a big difference from acting like you have been put upon because the devs add something new to the game which you can choose to use (which may mean getting rid of something else) or not. -- Inspired to ____ 21:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't see anyone acting put upon, unless it's you. Denizen Zero asked for a storage solution, and even said please. Poke asked what we have from storing the books, and I answered him. Then along comes little ol' you and attacks me for no reason that I can see - calling me a packrat, telling me I'm blowing it all out of proportion, making things up and presuming to lecture me on these made up (read outright lies) evils. Not only are you the packrat and not I, but it is you who are blowing this out of proportion, so give it up already. If we wish to ask for more storage, we can and will do so. We hardly need you jump on our case for it - and who the heck do you think you are anyway?. Are you Anet? Do you own Guild Wars? Give your two cents if you must, but do so without attacking me or anyone else here. 217.234.246.148 23:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you should open your eyes and you would realize that your bouncing from page to page making complaints and demands as result of ANet adding content to the game is not necessary nor helpful. I'm sorry if you feel attacked but that is on you and not me. -- Inspired to ____ 02:59, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

My bouncing from page to page? I am commenting on only two places. I am making neither complaints, nor demands. I am not attacking Anet or the game or this wiki in any way. I posted my opinion in two places in support of somebody elses post, and you jumped on them like a small-minded wiki-nazi who has to throw tantrums whenever someone says something you don't like. The only post I have started myself is the post thanking Anet for the update right below this one - and your saying i'm complaining about the update? Are you impaired? 217.234.251.154 04:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Because god forbid we have an opinion different from yours, even if we express it civilly. We must be whiners and complainers who hate the game. 98.226.112.109 16:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

On a side note, Story Book NPCs will not sell pages for missions completed prior to this update. never has one sentence made me rage so much, I've done all the campaigns for 8 characters, IS THERE REALLY NOTHING A-NET CAN DO?

From what Martin Kerstein said in the german guildwars-info forum, he and Regina had a telephone conference about this issue on Nov. 18. He's well aware what we're thinking about that... I have one character of each class through all continents and one through all missions in Hard Mode. I know EXACTLY how you're feeling... -- BuffyS

On a side note

Thanks for the great update, Anet. Alot of good done in this one, and I don't think that's been said enough here. 217.234.246.148 21:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree fully, although it should have been done earlier, but now its done and they did it in probably the best way (although I think they should add a book shelf or something like that to make storing books easier since there are way too many books now but it doesn't make this update any less great).--213.100.146.85 21:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Updates to quest rewards

Anyone confirm that the 'this is a one time reward only' quest rewards are one time per account, or character? I can't seem to find that out by reading anywhere in the wiki. thx. Mon Pare 08:15, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I would suppose they'll be added once per character.. Wouldn't make much sense if it was once per account. — Why 21:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually probably more like once per account. Because if they were once per character, then you could keep redoing the quests and missions on different characters. I'll check--Shinigami King 22:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

On the increase of faction cap, yea, I would suppose that is once per account. The increased rewards for many lb and ss-point related quests are per character, both my paragon and my warrior received a large increase in their lb and ss titles after this update. — Why 12:35, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

in pursuit of titles, they took away the hero fast faction farming, and left a flimsy excuse for their reasoning: gayla hatchery prob

usertalk: CECILHEAD (click on my talk - for my discussion on HFFF and the decision to remove it from the game- comments graciously appreciated)

I feel really angry and frustrated that i can no longer hero fast faction farm on scout the coast quest. There was a really flimsy argument as to "why" they did what they did- but it didn't offer alternatives for solo players who want to accumulate gold and faction at the same time.

It's frustrating when guild mates are busy, not online, and I'm trying to keep our guilds faction up by doing my part, all the while trying to get gold. I just started playing GW's in August of this year so don't beat me down to bad. I'm a noob at this- and I still haven't opened up hard mode, on the factions game which is really frustrating especially in view of this:

I finish the gayla hatchery, and even sometimes get master reward but when I go to talk to juno(?) i get no credit. The quest is called "attack the kurzicks!" and wiki says there is a bug- but I don't know what I'm doing wrong when someone tells me that they fixed that- and I still have "attack the kurzicks!" on my screen even after talking to the guy near the entrance, before I start the turtles. It's places where I'm getting stuck- like that that just make me want to farm faction and gold- and now they have taken that away from me as well.

Sorry to sound like a whiner - I love the game but it drives me nuts especially this hatchery thing! argh!!

cecil 02:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

During the quest Attack the Kurzicks! you do not need to complete the mission Gyala Hatchery. There is a small force led by Khim in Maishang Hills that are protecting the gate to Gyala Hatchery. If you walk outside of Gyala Hatchery into Maishang Hills you should see him near the resurrection shrine. If you help Khim to defeat the Kurzicks there, you should be able to complete the quest. The problem that was reported on the wiki page was that some players were having the quest reset on them if they re-entered Maishang Hills after defeating the Kurzicks but before getting the quest reward. This was working correctly when I tried it, so it is possible that it has been fixed already. If you are still having trouble with Attack the Kurzicks please let me know or send a message to support. -Kim Chase 21:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This is like the removal of points from the resurrected and replicated torment creatures: pointless. It's a flaw of the system derived from a new feature that interaced with an older one in a way it as not anticipated. They took a hell of a lot of time, but they finally fixed the flaw. Story ends, you wake up in your bed, and you believe whatever you want to believe.

The thing about Attacks the Kurzicks and Gyala Hatchery seems like some sort of bug, you should get a support ticket for that. MithTalk 14:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Tues. 11/18

An update a while ago, still no notes? Mr.Hobo 23:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Probably a "surprising" special treats weekend. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 23:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

On Tuesday...? Mr.Hobo 23:48, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

More likely some kinda bug fix.--Pyron Sy 23:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Not with that much files... and even the smallest bug gets a note. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 23:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

"Fixed a common exploit that allowed Isaiah Cartwright to access and modify the skill database."

What the hell was that about? Someone hand me the banhammer... Raine - talk 00:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Hm, nothing interesting =/ Mr.Hobo 00:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC) 00:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I had crashes occur since last weekend which were fixed with this last update. GW just shut down on me whenever I went out in a party. So at least one bug was fixed :) Helgan Iceglow 212.178.222.162 08:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

The notes on the website state that it was about a bug that cause Gyala Hatchery rewards to show up as Kurzick rather than Luxon faction. -- Elv 11:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Today

What was changed today? There was an update of some kind, or am I wrong? --000.00.00.00 05:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Nope, you're not crazy. It showed up somewhere around 9 CST on the 21st. No idea what it was, but it seemed very small. -- MrSmiles 05:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

There was a second New Build message, but still no notes.

Update plzy plz! – josəph 17:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Still no notes on the update, Unless you have some information there is nothing anyone can do... T1Cybernetic 18:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The notes where posted on the same day of the update, read them here --Inflame 04:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Those Developer updates notes do not cover what was update on November 21st~22nd (that A new build of Guild Wars is available. Please restart. message).

Developer updates notes just address previous (November 13th~18th) updates (why they decided to give all those Factions at once, why players would need to start those new books from start and why they haven't added extra storage space yet). --NIN37 04:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's not the release notes of the update, however its the notes of the developers, which for me means that what they said there is what they will try to release in the next update, it doesn't cover the last update, however the 13th Nov notes can cover this update, i don't know just a noob guess oO --Inflame 04:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Guild Wars did have an undocumented update on November 22nd (small one, around 3AM UTC, IIRC). No notes about that were made yet. --NIN37 05:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)