Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray
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The Guild Wars web site said "If you complete all FOUR quests" you will get a special surprise in Gwens Garden. If so than what is the fourth quest? Chris 69.54.220.18 21:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- I completed all 3 + 1 off the guy next to him and went to see if there was anything in the garden.. all there was, was a polar bear called Jingle Bear --
Razsel talk 21:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- He could be charmable....I'm not sure. --
Wandering Traveler 21:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- Doesn't show a lock recticle or any way to interract i.e. can't "I'm talking to a Jingle Bear.". When you try to use Charm Animal you get "That creature is not an animal."....pretty weird reward tbh. 98.219.48.111 21:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm thinking Thackeray and Gwen get it on....and we meet descendants of theirs later. What he says to her at the end of the quests makes it sound possible. 75.61.32.166 21:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm not the only one with the conclusion that he wants to get in Gwen's pants. --
Riddle 23:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, let's us go through all the trouble of getting that pendant imbued then walks off with the girl. What a manipulative bastard! I hate people who do that! 84.104.80.120 12:25, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm not the only one with the conclusion that he wants to get in Gwen's pants. --
- I'm thinking Thackeray and Gwen get it on....and we meet descendants of theirs later. What he says to her at the end of the quests makes it sound possible. 75.61.32.166 21:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- Doesn't show a lock recticle or any way to interract i.e. can't "I'm talking to a Jingle Bear.". When you try to use Charm Animal you get "That creature is not an animal."....pretty weird reward tbh. 98.219.48.111 21:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- He could be charmable....I'm not sure. --
- Ok, completly of the topic of him and Gwen, He does have in my opinion one of the coolest ranger armors in the game. Amazing Steve
00:28, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
- His given name means LIttle dark one/ little and dark. It has Gaelic origins. I found the info on babynames.com. Sorry Don't know how to sign. 19 December 2008. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.44.204.18 (talk).
- Ok, completly of the topic of him and Gwen, He does have in my opinion one of the coolest ranger armors in the game. Amazing Steve
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[edit] Name
I know it's a stretch, but doesn't "Thackeray" sound like someone with a lisp trying to say "Zachary"? Or at least how Daffy Duck would say it? --ChristopherRodrigues 19:09, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
- Its how i pronounce his name to Kieran Fakaree. I assume this wouldnt be the last we see of him as he tells gwen his name. --Smithy-Star
19:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- Could be linked to Kieran Weir from the credits? Cavalier 23:56, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Gwen-bait?
I dare say, this fellow is hitting on Gwen! 76.30.79.54 12:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Seems it is working. If you go in the Hall of Monuments and talk to her sometimes she will start to say his real name then correct herself but saying Lt. Thackeray. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.195.111.228 (talk).
- Gwen and Thackeray sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G. :). Qaletaqa 02:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
- I certainly hope not. Not every pairing or postgame plot resolution should be forced on us, especially in the case of a character with a following such as Gwen has. We should be free to decide for ourselves in our own minds what happened rather than having every last detail explained and thus arbitrarily eliminating any other possibilities. And how would it work between them, anyway? His appearances there are sporadic at best. He has no constant presence in the Eye, only random appearances. And he's done nothing for her aside from the pendant, and even for that he had to have our help. So the gift should have been as much from our character as from him, and the dialogue at the end of the quest should have reflected that. --Nathe 05:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
- Nathe, you need to remember the story doesn't exactly belong to us. It's like the Avatar The last Airbender Zutarra crap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX6zWBQRXvA&feature=related, 2:44 is the important part. You cannot bend the will of the creators when it comes to matching characters up. They are the owners of the story and will do with it as they wish. Plus not all the characters that Helped him with the gift were male ;).
- I was just using that as an example. But I was just saying that it would be better if they left it open - more people will be happy that way because it can go either way. And we do have part ownership of the story because we're the ones experiencing it. So we should have a say, to a certain extent, in how things happen. --Nathe 19:10, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Ownership of a story isn't attributed to the buyer of the book, but the author. ANet wrote the story, so they can decide where it goes and we're just leeching along for the ride. I don't mind fanfiction, but it's kind of an empty action knowing that it isn't how the story actually went, and insulting to the author because it's blatantly saying "I didn't like your version," even though the idea wouldn't exist without the original. Having a say in the storyline is fine if the game or story is a "choose your own adventure" kind of deal, but GW wasn't built that way any further than for the Luxon/Kurzick and Nightfall split missions.
- Rants about intellectual property aside, I do think he has a crush on her. Was checking this page just to find out if anyone else had mentioned, haha. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 22:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
- Except that places such as this wiki are in fact, outlets where we are allowed to give suggestions that can change the game. Which has been done already in the past. Besides, IP is an inherently flawed concept, for why should our culture be locked up and sealed away rather than shared? It makes no sense. And yes, I agree that Thack's probably got a crush on her, but not all GW attractions have ever been reciprocated. Nor should they be, as that's unrealistic. --Nathe 13:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- ANet has had their own ideas pretty well established about all the story-related concepts of their games before we even get a chance to suggest anything, as far as I'm aware. The only changes we really effect with our suggestions are balances, bugfixes, and weapons/monster names through contests. I don't know why you call IP a "locking up" of culture when it allows people to express the culture they created in the way it was intended to be expressed. The author(s) of a story decide where things go. If I were to write a story and people decided to (through fanfiction or fanart) change the pairings I made for any reason more than that I didn't resolve the pairings or the ever-popular "these two look hotter together," I would feel offended, because it's basically saying to me "yeah, you didn't pair them right, but don't worry, we fixed it for you," and how could that be true? It's my story.
- I'm not saying that their story should necessarily and absolutely tie up all loose ends, especially in regards to details as trivial and minimally emphasized as NPC romance in an action-adventure RPG, nor am I saying it shouldn't be definite. If they chose leave it open, then some people would be happier because they can imagine it their own way, and I'm fine with that. If they chose to give it some definite conclusion, I would be fine with that. In the end, it's their story, and deciding that you have the power to change its definite facts because it didn't go the way you want it to is insulting to the creators, who probably have more experience and skill with storytelling than your average fanfiction writer. But if they leave loose ends? I'll even lend you my pencil if you think you know where it went.
- On the same note of not having all the details filled (in response to your first comment here), we don't know that Thackeray didn't visit her more often or that he didn't do other things for her or that she didn't reciprocate his affection at some point, as we weren't at the Eye of the North the whole time, especially between her joining the Ebon Vanguard and meeting up with our player characters, and the vast amount of time available after the Great Destroyer's demise for that matter. Lots of loose ends. Let the players interpret this one as they please, I think, since they really haven't decided it for us. I personally don't care which way it goes, but I think the crush is cute regardless. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 07:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- So you're of the mind that it's okay for copyright to last longer than the creator's lifetime, then? Way longer than what was ever originally intended? And thusly, in favor of the locking-up of culture which that promotes? People are going to make their own versions and additions to stories no matter what you do, it's human nature. A creator does not have total and complete control over every aspect of his or her work once it's released. And GW is a thing that can always be updated and adjusted, as it's a continuing game, albeit usually it's gameplay fixes and issues that are the limit of our contributions. The point is, we play it, we're allowed some feedback and suggestion possibilities, including future possible story arcs, or the lack of them. Creators do not have, nor should they ever have, an unlimited and unrestricted monopoly on their creation, as that hinders subsequent creation. Or do you really think things are created from nothing, with no influence ever from any other source? --Nathe 13:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- You have a point. No, I don't think that copyright should last longer than the creator's lifetime, as then it's certainly a locking-up of culture. I realize that people make their own versions of stories; I see fanart and fanfiction all the time on the internet. I don't see a problem with that because the first step to becoming a great artist is (typically) imitation of great artists. I'm going to change my opinion here: as long as derivative or changed works (or the creators of these works) give credit and respect to the original and the creator of the original, and especially if they are used to improve upon one's artistic skills (writing or art, loosely interpreted), I find no issue. Of course things are created from outside influence; again, imitation of better artists or writers, for one. So I agree with you mostly. We tend to have minimal influence with respect to the Guild Wars storyline, since we are only really told a condensed and undetailed version of the story until they already have it figured out. And I don't see any greater issue with that than I see with fanart and fanfiction. ANet can decide where the real story goes, and fanfiction writers can decide where they would have liked it to go, but always keeping in mind and respecting the original intentions of the work. Of course, that's really a writer's or artist's personal moral line that's more difficult to see in the art itself, usually. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 18:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- I understand what you mean, but fanfic and the like can follow canon lore, too, by that I mean some authors do try to create their work in such a way that it can fit into the official lore without it actually being so, rather than just slapping a big AU on their work instead. Anyway, Anet - according to Linsey - does try to cater to as many people as possible, which makes sense, so I'd imagine that there won't be any definitive conclusion ever given about this story arc. At least, that would be the smart way to go, letting people come to their own conclusion rather than forcing a specific outcome upon them and thusly arbitrarily eliminating other possibilities. --Nathe 20:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- Sure, people who think up their own stories would love it. I personally don't care one way or the other. I don't generally read fanfiction because it tends, in my experience, to be grammar-error-ridden and difficult to read (sometimes to the point of eliminating punctuation marks completely) and in other cases tends to just not make sense. I know this isn't always the case, but I don't care to search very hard for the good kind. So every once in a while I like to see the original story (applied to any story that has fanfiction, not just GW) close up some gaps in a way that makes me go "d'awwwwww." --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 04:00, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- I understand what you mean, but fanfic and the like can follow canon lore, too, by that I mean some authors do try to create their work in such a way that it can fit into the official lore without it actually being so, rather than just slapping a big AU on their work instead. Anyway, Anet - according to Linsey - does try to cater to as many people as possible, which makes sense, so I'd imagine that there won't be any definitive conclusion ever given about this story arc. At least, that would be the smart way to go, letting people come to their own conclusion rather than forcing a specific outcome upon them and thusly arbitrarily eliminating other possibilities. --Nathe 20:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- You have a point. No, I don't think that copyright should last longer than the creator's lifetime, as then it's certainly a locking-up of culture. I realize that people make their own versions of stories; I see fanart and fanfiction all the time on the internet. I don't see a problem with that because the first step to becoming a great artist is (typically) imitation of great artists. I'm going to change my opinion here: as long as derivative or changed works (or the creators of these works) give credit and respect to the original and the creator of the original, and especially if they are used to improve upon one's artistic skills (writing or art, loosely interpreted), I find no issue. Of course things are created from outside influence; again, imitation of better artists or writers, for one. So I agree with you mostly. We tend to have minimal influence with respect to the Guild Wars storyline, since we are only really told a condensed and undetailed version of the story until they already have it figured out. And I don't see any greater issue with that than I see with fanart and fanfiction. ANet can decide where the real story goes, and fanfiction writers can decide where they would have liked it to go, but always keeping in mind and respecting the original intentions of the work. Of course, that's really a writer's or artist's personal moral line that's more difficult to see in the art itself, usually. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 18:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- So you're of the mind that it's okay for copyright to last longer than the creator's lifetime, then? Way longer than what was ever originally intended? And thusly, in favor of the locking-up of culture which that promotes? People are going to make their own versions and additions to stories no matter what you do, it's human nature. A creator does not have total and complete control over every aspect of his or her work once it's released. And GW is a thing that can always be updated and adjusted, as it's a continuing game, albeit usually it's gameplay fixes and issues that are the limit of our contributions. The point is, we play it, we're allowed some feedback and suggestion possibilities, including future possible story arcs, or the lack of them. Creators do not have, nor should they ever have, an unlimited and unrestricted monopoly on their creation, as that hinders subsequent creation. Or do you really think things are created from nothing, with no influence ever from any other source? --Nathe 13:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
- Except that places such as this wiki are in fact, outlets where we are allowed to give suggestions that can change the game. Which has been done already in the past. Besides, IP is an inherently flawed concept, for why should our culture be locked up and sealed away rather than shared? It makes no sense. And yes, I agree that Thack's probably got a crush on her, but not all GW attractions have ever been reciprocated. Nor should they be, as that's unrealistic. --Nathe 13:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- I was just using that as an example. But I was just saying that it would be better if they left it open - more people will be happy that way because it can go either way. And we do have part ownership of the story because we're the ones experiencing it. So we should have a say, to a certain extent, in how things happen. --Nathe 19:10, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Nathe, you need to remember the story doesn't exactly belong to us. It's like the Avatar The last Airbender Zutarra crap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX6zWBQRXvA&feature=related, 2:44 is the important part. You cannot bend the will of the creators when it comes to matching characters up. They are the owners of the story and will do with it as they wish. Plus not all the characters that Helped him with the gift were male ;).
- I certainly hope not. Not every pairing or postgame plot resolution should be forced on us, especially in the case of a character with a following such as Gwen has. We should be free to decide for ourselves in our own minds what happened rather than having every last detail explained and thus arbitrarily eliminating any other possibilities. And how would it work between them, anyway? His appearances there are sporadic at best. He has no constant presence in the Eye, only random appearances. And he's done nothing for her aside from the pendant, and even for that he had to have our help. So the gift should have been as much from our character as from him, and the dialogue at the end of the quest should have reflected that. --Nathe 05:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Reappear
It's Feb 16th, and I just saw him again. I was in the Hall of Monuments. clicking on the scrying pool because it sounds cool. All of a sudden, he shows up and starts talking his little end-of-the-quests script. Weird. Mat Cauthorn 21:21, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
- Just had it happen to me too.--74.169.88.223 21:35, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- I just had it happen to me as well 99.237.19.17 14:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
- About 10 min. ago, I was in my hall with no heroes and a freshly charmed Phoenix from Emryd the Tamer to place in my Fellowship monument. After adding the Phoenix statue, I noticed him in there and team chat had the conversation between him and Gwen about why she's always here. Then he walked back out the portal. I did do the Wintersday quests on the same character, but they're all completed and not in my quest log. My hall is set to display account wide, and I was on my Ranger who has more than 20 max titles if that makes a difference. LicensedLuny 02:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
- Saw him some seconds ago on a starting character. What in the name of Dwayna is he doing there? |Cyan Light
Live!| 19:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
- Hitting on Gwen. Pretty obvious. — Why
22:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
- Hitting on Gwen. Pretty obvious. — Why
- Saw him some seconds ago on a starting character. What in the name of Dwayna is he doing there? |Cyan Light
I wish his armor was available as elite armor for rangers Thrain 01:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
if his armor was avalible to players Rangers would be clones, very awesome lookign cloens but clones, he obvoously is in love with gwen, shes jsut to dense to realize it, and im goign to remove the "rweported part" of the note since about 20,000 people have seen him after wintersday--Lord Randy 19:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- Meh, rangers are meant to have light armor, leather, not spikes. And his hair is ridiculous. Topknots only look appropriate in feudal Japan. --Nathe 05:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Duh...
He odviously Loves gwen...
--Neil2250
Evil mantis thing commands you to feed him cookies. 15:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- True, but she seems to be pretty oblivious to it. And what's he done for her, anyway? For the pendant, he had to have our help - we did all the work, not him - so that doesn't really count, and we should have had some of his dialogue at the end of that quest. But nooo, Anet's still stuck on the "we can't give the PC's anything to say outside cutscenes" mentality. I see the thing with him and Gwen being a pretty much one-sided thing, really. She has no reason to return his feelings. He wasn't the one who took her back to Ascalon and helped her settle her past, nor was he the one who took her into the Underworld to reunite with her mother. Neither did he fight by her side against the Destroyers. He's done nothing to deserve her, imho. But that's just what I think. --Nathe 18:26, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
- He kills charr.... thats the gift that keeps giving... MrPaladin † talk 13:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- He and the rest of the Vanguard. So how does that distinguish him? --Nathe 16:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- Golden Pantaloons? MrPaladin † talk 16:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- Meh. As I said, his armor's crap. What self-respecting ranger wears metal armor? How's a ranger supposed to be stealthy in that? --Nathe 13:48, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- I hate to start another argument with you, but as I see it Rangers are designed to be survival experts, not the rogue/thief class of GW. Assassins were probably supposed to be the rogue imitation, what with the whole ninja mentality that had everyone playing them when they first came out (*cough* and wielding daggers *coughcough*), and Shadow Form was about as close as it got, though it wasn't implemented the right way to fit it. In a game where every enemy notices you, whether looking in your direction or not, when you get a certain distance from them, stealth is available in barely any form at all. (Except for Gwen in the Bonus Mission Pack, but having it in just one mission doesn't count.) It would be awesome to see real stealth implemented in some skills, but that would make PvP Assassins extremely imba without it having severe limitations.
- And as I said in the other talk we had, we don't know for certain that he never interacted with Gwen besides during our visits to the HoM. I find it hard to believe that he coincidentally only went to see her twice, and never saw her before we arrived at the Eye, and never saw her after the fall of the Great Destroyer. He even says "you're here every time I enter" when we've only seen him there twice, and that seems like an underwhelming observation on his part if he really has only been there twice. All we know is what the story told us, and it leaves it pretty open. You said this was a good thing. I agree that it's a good thing. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 18:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- Metal armor has no place for a wilderness warrior, at least imo, which is what rangers are. And Thack wasn't even part of EOTN when it first came out, btw, he was only added later. Ex post facto addition to lore, yet we're supposed to believe he was always there regardless of the fact that he originally wasn't. And while he may have had contact with Gwen prior to the WD quest, his own words confirm that they barely even knew each other, which suggests any previous contact would have been minimal at best. Also, how did he even know what her symbol was in the first place to be able to give our character a drawing of it? He never knew Gwen prior to EOTN. He was never shown in pre-Searing Ascalon as a boy. He was never there. And in pre, Gwen herself says that there are no other kids her age for her to play with, which means that he - who would have been around her age at the time - was not there, at least in that region of Ascalon, and never knew her. So he had no way of knowing what her symbol was. Continuity gap, which means the entire WD quest should not even be considered canon since it logically couldn't have been possible to start it in the first place. --Nathe 20:41, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- Just because they're good at wilderness stuff doesn't mean they all have to wear leather or "natural" armor. That's how it was traditionally, granted, but who says it has to stay that way? From there it's a matter of personal taste, and I like this armor. Regardless, the Vanguard basically all use the same kind of armor, so it's not surprising that this guy does too.
- Fair point about her not knowing him very well (I hadn't seen the quest in quite a while), but there are plenty of things he could have been doing at the points when the players are at the Eye; he's a recon Ranger, he'd be a busy guy when everything around him is enemy territory, especially being put completely in charge of the Eye for Winntersday. The pendant might not be anything more than a random act of kindness, but there's also evidence that a crush is being developed there, as suggested by Thackeray insisting that Gwen call him by his given name, and additionally in his other lines. I'll agree from this that there probably hasn't been anything between them yet, but there could be something developed in the many many years between this and GW2. I guess if that's included in these novels ANet is going to be producing, then we'll have a definite answer, but until then it's all speculation based on minimal observation, really. I think they'd be a cute couple. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 22:06, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, the armor's a personal preference, guess that's just my D&D background rearing up, sorry about that. ^_^. And while it's certainly possible that he likes her, there's no indication ever given that she feels the same way. It's more likely a one-sided thing than anything else. I guess I'm just peeved that Anet did this with a guy who's not even visibly at the Eye except on a very erratic basis, hardly the most solid of foundations for building a relationship. Distance couplings tend to be difficult to maintain, after all. I doubt any woman would be content to see her man only once every so often. If this whole thing had been done with someone who was part of EOTN to begin with and who had a regular presence in or near the Eye (as far as being there whenever you enter the area as opposed to only randomly showing up sometimes), I could have understood that. Meaning, if it had been handled more the way the Koss/Melonni thing was, something that was developed right from the very beginning of the story and thus fully intended from the start. But this thing with Thack just seems like something tacked on after the fact and not really ever acknowledging that some players might not like the outcome defined for them in this case. Some might like to think Gwen chose someone else, after all, and would prefer to be given the room in the lore for such possibilities to exist. --Nathe 20:42, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
- Metal armor has no place for a wilderness warrior, at least imo, which is what rangers are. And Thack wasn't even part of EOTN when it first came out, btw, he was only added later. Ex post facto addition to lore, yet we're supposed to believe he was always there regardless of the fact that he originally wasn't. And while he may have had contact with Gwen prior to the WD quest, his own words confirm that they barely even knew each other, which suggests any previous contact would have been minimal at best. Also, how did he even know what her symbol was in the first place to be able to give our character a drawing of it? He never knew Gwen prior to EOTN. He was never shown in pre-Searing Ascalon as a boy. He was never there. And in pre, Gwen herself says that there are no other kids her age for her to play with, which means that he - who would have been around her age at the time - was not there, at least in that region of Ascalon, and never knew her. So he had no way of knowing what her symbol was. Continuity gap, which means the entire WD quest should not even be considered canon since it logically couldn't have been possible to start it in the first place. --Nathe 20:41, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- Meh. As I said, his armor's crap. What self-respecting ranger wears metal armor? How's a ranger supposed to be stealthy in that? --Nathe 13:48, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- Golden Pantaloons? MrPaladin † talk 16:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- He and the rest of the Vanguard. So how does that distinguish him? --Nathe 16:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- He kills charr.... thats the gift that keeps giving... MrPaladin † talk 13:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- (reset indent) Mm, I've wanted to try playing D&D for the longest time. No worries, anyway, I get where you're coming from.
- Like you've said yourself, there's only sugggestions and hints that Thackeray is even flirting - for all we know, he's just a socially inept and well meaning guy - and practically no evidence that Gwen shares any feelings if that's the case. What happens after the things they've allowed us to see...well...remains to be seen, obviously, or isn't going to be shown to us at all; and in either case, at the present there's plenty of room for imagination. I agree that it was kind of awkwardly thrown in if that was the intent, which makes me think that ANet probably didn't mean it, but again, there's not a lot of other evidence pointing either way.
- I may just not have been paying attention during Nightfall, but I don't remember Koss and Melonni hooking up. >.> They did a lot of the cute-couple arguing, maybe, but there was a LOT of that. They even split the freaking storyline, haha. --[ Kyoshi ]::[ Talk ] 21:35, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
