Talk:Shield of Force

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[edit] Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

  • Shield of Force: now blocks next attack skill.
  • Please discuss skill change here. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Good change. Still think it might be a bit weak vs warrior stances which have 15 sec recharges and 3-5 sec durations without much investment. Maybe drop recharge to 10s? --Symbol 23:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

This change was definitely needed for it to be worth using. If you compare it to Shield Bash now the effect is not as good (KD > weakness) but it has a much lower recharge to compensate for that. I'm not sure if reducing the recharge is needed, it might become a bit too easy to spam otherwise. I could see this being used to counter warriors or dervish, against assassins it's probably not going to work but we have Smoke Powder Defense for that. --Draikin 00:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Shield bash is instant, KDs the attacker, and disables their attack skill, which justifies the higher recharge. Stances like Defensive Stance and Disciplined Stance have marginally higher recharge, but also have instant activation and can block multiple attacks.--Symbol 01:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Smoke Powder Defense(crap name) is also a pretty good skill with yet the same purpose. Though Smoke Powder Defense has more uses than this. The only real use this has is stopping a spike from one person. This is more of a counter dervish skill than it is a dervish skill. The weakness will hurt Hammer users and Scythe users, assuming they don't have Melandru. Next attack skill will be pretty good at stopping assassin spikes, except Expose Defenses, which renders this skill pointless. --Deathwing 01:47, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I do not think that this skill is gonna see much play. The fact that it is an enchantment is what is killing it imo. If you get KDed, you can't cast it, which kind of defeat the purpose of a skill like that. At the very least it should Weaken everyone around you ala Smoke Powder Defense. Shendaar 13:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
If it had adjacent AoE I'd definitely take it. The skill should remain an enchantment, that's a balancing factor and it takes more skill to use if you can't just go "OH NOES! I IS KDED!" and then mash your stance button. IMO either 10r, or 12r with weakness to all adjacent foes would make this skill very playable. --Symbol 20:11, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
How about, when you get attacked, all nearby/adjacent foes are interrupted and suffer from weakness? --Deathwing 20:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not fond of the interrupt idea, given how the dervishes do not have any sort of interrupt - feels like it's something they are not supposed to do. I like how this one is an enchantment (has good synergy with Mysticism) and I like how it causes Weakness (has good synergy with Armor of Sanctity). If it were to be changed, I think AoE weakness would be fitting (or, if a secondary effect is really desired, maybe removes enchantments around you when you're attacked? I don't think secondary effects are needed, though). Erasculio 20:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree. AoE weakness would give this skill a strong effect which doesn't need anything added on. If you catch something important with the block, like dev hammer or eviscerate you're already way ahead the game. The weakness just ensures that the follow up attacks don't have a chance in hell of succeeding. --Symbol 21:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

(reset) The only idea I have that hasn't been stated is maybe "If you have no Enchantments on you, this spell casts and recharges twice as fast." to make it a little more versatile compared to Shield Bash's KD+Disable and SMD's AoE Blind without making it a clone... Plus the 1/4 cast is pretty limiting if you hit it too late. GD Defender 15:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill makes a Earth Prayers a very good second line for casters, as EP now gives both defense, healing and anti-interrupt. Nicky Silverstar 08:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Skill still sucks. You don't run shield bash because it blocks an attack. You run shield bash because it KDs the warrior on you, ends up giving you a window to escape, and stops the damage from him for 2 seconds. This skill blocks and attack and applies a weak condition to the foe. It would need to block multiple attacks, or do a heck of a lot more to the attacker to be worth it. -Warskull 23:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Weakness is far more powerful than you know. it gives you a window to escape, beacause the critical damage that used to be aroung 60 (scythe) is now only 20. Seems pretty useful to me.Nicky Silverstar 20:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Except the daggers that were doing 70-80 are now doing 60-70. Edit: BTW, this is a DERVISH skill, it should benefit a dervish. Blocking one attack and weakening one target isn't worth a skill slot for a melee dervish. --Deathwing 20:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why it should be useful for a Dervish. I use Earth Prayers for my Elementalist and she can really make good use of this skill. ;-) Nicky Silverstar 14:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
You use Mystic Regeneration, which also happens to be very useful for a Dervish. This skill has little to no use on a Dervish. --Deathwing 14:46, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
No I don't...well, not a lot. I do use Pious Concentration and Conviction. Works like a charm, combined with wards and glpyphs.. ~Nicky.
Well, Conviction is very good on Dervish, atleast until the armor nerf then it got a little less useful. Pious Concentration, eh, theres just few spells that a Dervish really needs to protect against interruption. However, I would say Pious Concentration is one of the "bad for primary, decent for second" skills that I hate to see added. If it is good for another profession, give that profession the skill. Adding this skill makes all casters get 11 skills added by GWEN, while a Dervish only gets 9. --Deathwing 20:45, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, what this skill DOES do is protect you against all melee attackers. The block part will take care of assassin chains, while the weakness part will hinder pressure damage from dervishes and warriors. I still think it has a lot of potential, and I will definitely use it. Too bad I don't play a primary Dervish...Nicky Silverstar 08:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Tell me why I would take this vs Shield Bash or Disciplined Stance or Defensive Stance? Only reason I can think of is if I'm already going /D for Mystic Regeneration, but generally if you're doing that you're a primary ele with beefy energy management, so why not use Mirage Cloak instead? --Symbol 05:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill won't see play. Plain and simple. I like the design, but something is just missing. Servant of Kali 00:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Make it a Stance. It might be used then. Even then however... Readem Sorry, I'll stop trolling now. 00:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
No, I like the fact that it's an enchantment. Something else is missing. Servant of Kali 12:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
The thing that's missing is an animation of the dervish ramming his elbow into the attacker's face. --Ckal Ktak 13:17, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
It need AoE weakness, or a lower recharge. Take your pick. --Symbol 05:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
It works great with Armor of Sanctity though. Nicky Silverstar 07:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. Now let's just take a quick look on how many people use Armor of Sanctity in PvP and one can get the idea of how useful Shield of Force is going to be. The last thing I want is for Dervish to turn into wammo. Servant of Kali 23:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it will get used more often...Nicky Silverstar 13:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
You're going to take two self defense skills, one of them that doesn't even do anything unless the target is suffering a condition which will get removed in a few seconds, to do what? What does this combo offer over Shield Bash/Disciplined Stance, or Dark Escape/Return or stuff like shouts + Soldier's Defense? If Shield of Force was 10r, I'd take it. If it had adjacent AoE, I'd take it. Right now it just isn't compelling compared to warrior stances that have much stronger effects with only marginally higher recharge, or one off defenses like Shield Bash or Smoke Powder Defense. --Symbol 19:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original skill feedback

Will never see use. --Deathwing 01:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

WTB reasons, or some sort of relative understanding behind your logic :) not saying it doesn't need a tweak, just saying your feedback could use some explanation so I can tweak the skill and make it usable. ~Izzy @-'---- 01:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Weakness is a condition that is usually ignored, unless for a cover which is tough to do with this skill. Blocking one attack just really doesn't seem worth it. The only thing I could see a use for this is maybe for a monk to stop a melee in RA, but Guardian works against all attackers for an infinite amount of blocks. Just can't see many situations where this beats out other skills. Maybe if it was attack skill and not an attack. Chances are it will get removed by a wand, and weaken a caster. It is not a reliable enchantment to have on for things that require an enchantment, such as Mystic Regeneration. Possibly like a 25%-50% chance to block, scaled, and weakness every time you get attacked. Shorter duration. --Deathwing 01:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
While you do have a point, I think comparing a Dervish skill with a Monk skill isn't really that fair - this has more drawbacks than some Monk skills, definitely, but this one does not rely on a second character (or on that secondary profession), plus a Dervish casting this on himself would get the added benefit of Mysticism giving him energy back. If anything, the change I would like to see here would be a lower recharge, so it may be used more often in order to block an expected attack (even if it's removed by wanding, it would be back up a few seconds later). Erasculio 01:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Wasn't comparing it to a monk skill, was saying what use it might get, but why it wouldn't get it because another skill is better in that position. Could be fun with a 5 second recharge or something. Just don't see it being used seriously. Like Riposte and Deadly Riposte I don't see them used, except for tanking warriors in AB/RA. I just don't see it being used seriously. Weakness, while it hurts melee quite a bit, isn't a priority condition. That makes it about the same as a damageless Riposte that takes time to cast. Maybe I'm just being overly negative and am missing a good combination. I don't know. --Deathwing 01:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I kinda agree with the first guy - I can't see a dervish using this - frontline melee chars don't tend to want to waste a skillslot with sth to block melee attacks, heh - it's very much something that will get used by other chars with dervish as their secondary - basically in a similar way to monks and necs use /w for block stances atm - and in that case, it definitly needs a buff. Changing it to "attack skill" might make a lot of sense, as has been suggested above. Possibly even you could consider swapping weakness for blind (with a much shorter duration) - or even both (but that might be taking it too far)
It's super good at dealing with Assassins spiking you, and the fast Enchantment makes it good with Signet of Pious Light and Mysticism, while weakness is a less used condition the one place you want it on is when someone is attacking you I think this skill applies it when you need it and can be used to actively stop a lot of damage coming your way. ~Izzy @-'---- 01:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
If you want it to stop assassins, make it next attack skill. Weakness doesn't hurt assassins since their main damage is from skills, which ignore weakness. If its next attack, they will just attack you then own you with their chain. --Deathwing 01:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Dervishes specced heavily into earth are rare, this would be used more often by the E/D stoneflesh/mystic regen tanks... not that they need anything more to survive. -Auron 01:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
But this doesn't require heavy spec, I mean how many people use Shield bash on non Warrior characters, this is pretty much Shield bash but you don't need a shield. Clearly there are trade offs between enchantment and weaken vs knockdown, but I don't think this skill is that far off for an active defense. ~Izzy @-'---- 01:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Thing is, shield bash works even if you're KDed, this has an activation time and an aftercast. That said it's an interesting skill and it would be worthwhile with a slightly lower recharge and a "blocks next attack skill" clause. This is potentially a very active skill since it rewards situational awareness (if you can read a spike before you're dumped on your ass), so I'd be happy if it became useable. --Symbol 09:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeh. 5 energy is solid, and the activation time could hamper adren spikes (blocking evis = win). -Auron 01:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
This skill would actually be good if it was target other ally so Mo/D could use this to fuck up spikes.84.136.254.14 11:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The SF E/D using Mystic Regen in AB will probably get some use out of this. --Rururrur 17:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

As some people said, making this work on attack skills instead of normal attacks would make it useful. Blocking normal attacks just isn't worth it when you don't really gain anything except for a single block from the skill. --84.250.16.99 16:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

It takes more skill to use properly if it has the possibility of only blocking a regular hit. With some tweaks, it could possibly be a useful active defense tool for a player who is good at watching/predicting the enemy, but at the moment it's just clearly outshined by the quick recharge /w defensive stances. Gus 16:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't see how this can deal with assassin spikes either for the reasons already stated above. If they have Expose Defenses (and most of the SP assassins do) they can even ignore this skill altogether. --Draikin 19:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Works good when an Assassin is going to spike you ----InfestedHydralisk Shadow Prison.jpg 18:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


This should be next attack skill I'll get that fixed. ~Izzy @-'---- 18:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Why did some1 say this will never be used?? thow this on Ebon Spear chucker in HB... = Anti-sin solo gank a thing. Believe me this is 1337.
If this is leet, what's Mirage Cloak then?Noctarch 23:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Looks like I was right...

This doesn't see use, just like I said it wouldn't. --Deathwing 02:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I dunno why Izzy doesn't see uselessness... it's like "Pious Fury" - a good idea but in a far too small extend. I'd take Fleetign Stability, Mirage Cloak, Armor of Sanctity, Vei of Thorns or... anything a dervish can offer for active defense. It has always longer duration and/or greater impact. Noctarch 23:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No one seems to be noticing

This skill doesn't require a shield. I'm yet to see classes like Ritualists Elementalists Necromancers and - most important - Dervishes running around with a shield. --Alistair Cookie Ritualist-icon-small.png 04:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Why would it require a shield? Shielding Hands doesn't need a shield either. Nor does Shield of Deflection or Shield of Regeneration. Vili User talk:Vili 05:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
That's the point, people whine for buffs, while it doesn't require one. Else it would be just OP. --Alistair Cookie User Alistercookie sig.jpg 05:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I see the cleverness now.
This has no usage in pve, and moderate usage in pvp (Weakness is...meh). Recharge is ehh. So is linked to attribute. Vili User talk:Vili 05:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
For rits and such, I think Shield Bash might work better, since it also KD's the offender, and disables the melee skill for 15 more seconds, thereby preventing a sin combo. Seeing that shield bash isn't used much in PvP, might be because it only lasts 5 seconds on warrior secondaries. Shield bash can be activated and discharged while knocked down too, which might be useful for a assassins beguiling haze, horns of the ox combo. I might do this for the lolorific value, than the actual utility. StatMan 06:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for the double. Apparently, on the shield bash talk, it is used in PvP. Please excuse my ignorance. StatMan 06:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Shield Bash has been used in PvP for quite some time. Other perennial options are things like Return, stances like Disciplined Stance, etc. I don't think this will ever see serious use. Vili User talk:Vili 07:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
It sees a little use on dervish healers, which see very little use. It has sometimes been used on Mo/Ds in TA who are /D for Pious Concentration, but /W and /A have been better options in the past. Misery 13:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Aren't there like a load of team HB builds with a dervish with shield of force in? 92.239.41.229 13:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah. D/As zzzzzzzz. HB doesn't exist imo, I ignore it. Misery 14:17, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Question

I may be stupid to ask, but does it STOP when you block, or does the enchant continue after your block?

It ends on block. Misery 13:23, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a question to. why dosn t it block savage shot which the skill does say unblockable is there some fault in the skill?(69.139.13.97) Where does savage shot say its unblockable?71.173.177.243 00:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Text Anomaly?

I havent used this skill yet but from what i've read from the concise skill description it kinda suggests that the KD duration is the same as the weakness duration. Im sure that's not what it actually does but a duration on the KD would be rather nice to include since a 18 second KD would make the weakness obsolete and make the skill itself OP... 81.149.162.11 12:07, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Unless written otherwise a KD is always 2 seconds so no text anomaly. Da Mystic Reaper 15:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested skill change

I suggest that the KD should be unconditional upon end. Then the skill would benefit from teardown. Let the first blocked attack skill will prematurely end the enchantment. As it is now, the KD requires a blocked attack to take effect (which is unclear in the concise description).66.47.27.36 22:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Removed anomaly note

The skill clearly states that the NEXT attack (as in one single attack and that's it) is affected and that's it, so the note is not necessary at all. Pjwned 01:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

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