Talk:Shiro Tagachi
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[edit] Spoiler Warning
Isn't saying this is a spoiler for Factions and Nightfall a spoiler in itself? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:76.194.219.205 (talk).
- Some people choose not to read spoilers. Myself included. (Unless of course, I already know it.) MiraLantis 03:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Page correction
Assassin Assassin? O_o.. surely that isn't right? --Jamie 
03:56, 30 March 2007 (EDT)
- It's the icon and then profession name when switched over to the new template that causes problems. - Anja Astor 04:02, 30 March 2007 (EDT)
- Yeah, I just fixed that now. Should be fine. --Santax 04:03, 30 March 2007 (EDT)
[edit] Assassin?
I took the liberty of changing Shiro's profession to Special seeing as how it is unestablished whether he is an assassin or warrior or ritualist or w/e. If anyone has any objections to this please make your thoughts known.--Firecrown 00:12, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- The Shiro talk page on Guildwiki already covers most arguments a user could make, short of actually having someone from ArenaNet come and chime in. At the moment, he's "Special" there, too (which is, I admit, something I was pushing for specifically to get rid of the speculation). — 130.58 (talk) 03:56, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- I actually don't have a problem labeling him as something other than "special" if we do it consistently. Like, if we have a global standard of labeling things based on archetype. But the thing that happened when people said "Yeah, he's an Assassin because his skills are maybe kinda like Assassin skills" is that Kuunavang ended up being an E/R (on account of using lightning stuff and preparations) and the absurdity just increased from there, and then there was a big argument about Shiro being A, A/W, W/A, A/Rt, or W/A/Rt. So, if we are going to label him as something, I'd really like it to be based on archetype (which is how the lich is a "necromancer" and Kuunavang is an "elementalist") rather than based on his specific abilities. Based on archetype, of course, Shiro's just a warrior. Or he can just keep being "Special" along with Kuunavang, Glint, and the Lich, since they do use non-standard abilities. Anyway, I'm not trying to restart the Guildwiki debate over here. I just want to have a system for labeling special creatures that's actually consistent across the whole bestiary, however it's done. — 130.58 (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- First of all, his skills are not "maybe kinda like Assassin skills". They are Assassin skill types. And secondly, the Undead Lich uses a Necromancer skill. --Santax 03:56, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
- I actually don't have a problem labeling him as something other than "special" if we do it consistently. Like, if we have a global standard of labeling things based on archetype. But the thing that happened when people said "Yeah, he's an Assassin because his skills are maybe kinda like Assassin skills" is that Kuunavang ended up being an E/R (on account of using lightning stuff and preparations) and the absurdity just increased from there, and then there was a big argument about Shiro being A, A/W, W/A, A/Rt, or W/A/Rt. So, if we are going to label him as something, I'd really like it to be based on archetype (which is how the lich is a "necromancer" and Kuunavang is an "elementalist") rather than based on his specific abilities. Based on archetype, of course, Shiro's just a warrior. Or he can just keep being "Special" along with Kuunavang, Glint, and the Lich, since they do use non-standard abilities. Anyway, I'm not trying to restart the Guildwiki debate over here. I just want to have a system for labeling special creatures that's actually consistent across the whole bestiary, however it's done. — 130.58 (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- This discussion can end very quickly once you decide what "profession" in the skill box refers to: The "profession" of normal language (teacher, tailor, assassin) or the "profession" as guild wars class (warrior, mesmer, assassin). He is definitely not an assassin in the later view, but might be one on the former (though I would go with bodyguard there personally, seeing how he never really "worked" after killing the emperor). --Xeeron 13:31, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- Yeah. That's the question I was alluding to. You just have to apply it consistently. I would just label all the creatures that are more special than bosses as, well, just "special," because that communicates their game-mechanical status (they get unique abilities, aren't bosses you can cap from, &c.). — 130.58 (talk) 16:58, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- As far as I'm aware, we label Guild Wars NPC's on this Guild Wars wiki by their Guild Wars profession. But seriously, here are the points that I made on the GuildWiki talk page:
- He shadow steps. Assassins are the only class that can do this. Necrmancers and elementalists can teleport, but that is completely different to shadow stepping.
- He double-strikes. Assassins are the only class that can do this.
- He has two blades. Assassins are the only profession that can dual-wield. After killing him, you can either choose both blades or one. Just because you can choose to wield one of his blades does not make him a warrior. Don't you think he'd have a shield, an axe or a hamnmer too?
- The fact that he uses the same character model of a warrior is irrelevant. In fact, there's a possibility that he uses the same model as a ranger - you'd have to see an emote to tell. Morgahn uses a warrior model, Eve an ele, Mhenlo a ranger and all Am Fah Assassins use the ranger model. It's simply the way he was designed.
- It is explicitly stated in the PRIMA guide on more than one occasion that he is an assassin. Seriously, guys, the PRIMA guide is cited in the manual and is a reccomended buy. Your argument is that the guide is innacurate, but actually it was just based on preliminary information and out-of-date before the game was released. Any lore contained in it is considered canonical. --Santax 16:21, 11 May 2007 (EDT)
- His Guild Wars professions is "doesn't have one," as evidenced by the fact that he has completely custom abilities and is outside of the usual system for statting up monsters within the game. You can talk about what professions he most resembles and therefore might be categorized as, in which case those arguments are fine, but to say that Shiro actually has a game-mechanical profession is meaningless. This is why I'm insisting that there be a specific rule for unique creatures across the board, either based on "let's all speculate based on similarities to other, non-unique creatures" or "let's just label them as unique creatures." Better to do one or the other than to have it all be inconsistent like Guildwiki.
- And, if that's the case, the yardstick is the easiest unique creature to typecast (the Lich) vs. the hardest (probably Glint or Abaddon). If you want to say "Shiro is an assassin," the real argument is "Glint should be called a ... on her page." If you want to say "Shiro is special," the real argument is "We should label the Lich as a special character despite his necro skills." — 130.58 (talk) 02:14, 12 May 2007 (EDT)
- Except Glint's profession isn't explicitly stated or even mentioned in any official sources, multiple times. From the Guild Wars Factions Official Guidebook, written by ArenaNet staff, it says about the Assassin:
- "The Assassin profession was a natural outgrowth of a culture divided between nobility and the common folk for as long as any in Cantha can remember. Assassins originally fitted a simple need for Canthan nobles - the ability to quickly eliminate a single rival or enemy, with a minimum of fuss or bother on the part of said nobles. Assassins were and are hired or (more often) kept on retainer for this very purpose even today."
- Do you think shiro drops an elite assassin tome if you solo him in hard mode?
- "As the ranks of the nobility grew, most Assassins were required to keep up with demand, and they soon began to organize into their own unions and guilds to ensure fair payment for the Assassin and to establish rules and regulations that govern the profession's work. Eventually these organizations became self-perpetuating, and now few Assassins work for only one client. Those who have - including, according to the histories, the Betrayer called Shiro Tagachi - are usually employed as bodyguards to the most powerful Canthans."
There are also more mentions:
- "The emperor's bodyguard, a talented young Assassin named Shiro Tagachi who could trace his family back to Kaineng Tah's concubines..."
- "A master of the Assassin's disciplines, Shiro was the Emperor Angsiyan's bodyguard..."
- "... no Assassin in Cantha was unaware that one of their discipline protected the divine ruler of the empire..."
I don't think you can really refute the claim that he is an Assassin :/ --Santax 03:56, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
- I dont think that what the manual says has any relevance here. He uses no assassin skills and just because he does things only assassins can do doesn't necessarily mean he is one. The Lich is a necromancer because he actually uses necromancer skills. Shiro however uses unique skills that no profession uses so he is not any of them. That he uses two SWORDS says that he was just really strong. Assassins use daggers. Not swords. Shiro wields two swords as can be seen in the preview cinematic. So to sum up, he doesn't use assassin skills or assassin weapons, nor does he use skills and weapons from any profession meaning that he is in fact special and not any playable profession. End of story.--Firecrown 12:40, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
- In that case, what professions are Prophet Varesh and Commander Varesh? Your logic is flawed. And I think the official guide does have some relevance here, as it specifically states Shiro's profession multiple times. To say it doesn't have any relevance would be saying that it isn't anything to do with the game. --Santax 10:43, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
- Idk about Commander Varesh, probably a para since Enemies Must Die! affects all allies, but Prophet Varesh is a dervish. Think about it, Varesh uses a scythe, she uses enchantment collapse, earth vortex. In the guild wars nightfall manuscript, it clearly states that Wind Prayers deal cold damage, since Frost Vortex deals cold damage. I'd say Prophet Varesh is a Dervish/Necromancer.Ace 03:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- In that case, what professions are Prophet Varesh and Commander Varesh? Your logic is flawed. And I think the official guide does have some relevance here, as it specifically states Shiro's profession multiple times. To say it doesn't have any relevance would be saying that it isn't anything to do with the game. --Santax 10:43, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
- I dont think that what the manual says has any relevance here. He uses no assassin skills and just because he does things only assassins can do doesn't necessarily mean he is one. The Lich is a necromancer because he actually uses necromancer skills. Shiro however uses unique skills that no profession uses so he is not any of them. That he uses two SWORDS says that he was just really strong. Assassins use daggers. Not swords. Shiro wields two swords as can be seen in the preview cinematic. So to sum up, he doesn't use assassin skills or assassin weapons, nor does he use skills and weapons from any profession meaning that he is in fact special and not any playable profession. End of story.--Firecrown 12:40, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
- Santax, I think I *can* refute the claim that he is an Assassin, actually, depending on what the criterion for labeling something with a profession here is. You're arguing that special monsters still deserve profession labels, despite the fact that they have a lot of game-mechanical ambiguity. Which is why Commander Varesh is a Paragon, for example. I'm inclined to agree. The reason I agree is that ANet is pretty transparently taking a less essentialist stance with regard to skills and professions these days (note the huge growth in non-profession-specific skills and plans to add even more). This would make Shiro an Assassin because he is most like an Assassin, despite lacking some features of the profession and having features of others. So, if we define professions loosely (I think we should), he's an Assassin. If we define them tightly, he's "Special." — 130.58 (talk) 12:09, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
has anyone tried pm'ing shiro and ask him for yourself? just a thought, but add him to friends list, pm him, and ask. simple.
[edit] Why is it written in PoV style?
Seriously why is it written in PoV style? Also it says spoilers while it obviously isn't a bigger spoiler than the handbook that arrives with GW. Sith talk 08:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm, has been in since the first edit. Maybe it is text taken from somewhere else? Anyway, this is a wiki: If you dont like it, edit it =) --Xeeron 09:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Is an assassin
In hard mode he drops elite assassin tomes. (only sin bosses can do this) Therefor he is an assassin boss. If this is not true, anet has completely disregared any form or standard for any npc when they made him. --Lou-Saydus
18:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Assassin without assassin skills
If you have the guide book u can see that Chkkr Locust Lord is an assassin but have cry of frustration - wich is a mesmer skill - on. That means that shiro is an assassin but just have some different skills and weapons! xD
- I'm assuming you are referring to the Prima guide? It is so full of wrong and outdated information that it isn't worth referencing. -
HeWhoIsPale 16:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Banashing
When Shiro banishes it's annoying coz a shiro'ken comes and adds to shiro's dmg, i don't know, but, if the banished person gets to the top of the island thing and comes back does the shiro'ken die?
- Yeah they die. But a faster way is to focus fire on the shiro'ken the moment it gets up. This will also get you back your party member. - Damadmoo 19:56, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Apropos of nothing
... "Taste my twin blades of torment, bay-bee!" would be an interesting pickup line. -- Hong 14:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Shiro
- → moved from User talk:Gaile Gray
So i was fighting shiro with heros and henchies, when he started banishing them.. the wiki page says he doesnt banish when you're alone, but he certainly did, and they lack the AI to get back 24.141.45.72 04:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- Shiro doesn't banish heroes, but he does banish henchmen. (Why is this on Gaile's talk page?) -- Hong 04:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hong, I was wondering the same myself! Maybe our friend, User 24.141.45.72 will kindly move this to Shiro's page? -- Gaile
04:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- Gaile is Omniscient is she not ? :P 124.176.99.176 07:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- I wish she was...she does a good job of giving us information :) ...but unfortunately, in cases like these she only knows what the devs tell her, and her own speculations. At least, that's what I understand from previous instances. Silver40596
- Gaile is Omniscient is she not ? :P 124.176.99.176 07:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hong, I was wondering the same myself! Maybe our friend, User 24.141.45.72 will kindly move this to Shiro's page? -- Gaile
[edit] Shiro IS an Asassin. PROVEN
I just happened to notice after I read the above articles, I went back to the Previous page about Shiro's information. When I went to the bottom of the page and it was classified as an Asassin, just go to the bottom and read it yourself.
[edit] Spoilers?
There really isn't much 'spoiler' info on this page. Also, a link to the CGI Factions movie could be appropriate (and awesome). — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ 
17:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Not that powerful for an end-game boss...
They should have maken him more powerful, people (and myself) solo him with assas in both NM and HM, and when 8 ppl are fighting him it's even easier. Ninjas In The Sky 10:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- No, it's not 'even easier'. Shiro is hard for most classes. Just because one class can solo him doesn't make him easy. Silavor
23:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Most classes could solo Shiro, given the right build, apart from maybe Monks and possibly Paragons. Warriors can simply buff there health up so that they've got 1'001 and then take some high damage skill, Rangers use touch skills or a pet build, Necros can SS him, Mesmers... DeGen, but they'd have to have some srt of skill to heal, Eles - well, just use overpowerd AoE skills and stuff like starburst, Assassins - Build already made, Ritualist could spirit him, although you might have some difficulty there, Dervishes simply need to bring one of the Avatars. Al Dente 19:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
FAILFAILFAIIIIL. meditation of the reaper laugh at you. and so does shiro's life restorationOni 
16:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Um, could you make some sense please? Thank you. --Star Weaver 16:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
From what I gathered, he's saying that the idea that most classes could solo Shiro is stupid. Meditation of the reaper would keep that from happening in SS's (Dunno the proper way to make that possessive...) case, eles have nearly no armor, so they'd fold like a cheap table in a few hits, the spirit idea MIGHT work, but once Shiro started attacking the rit, it'd be over, the Dervish idea.. Well, the avatars aren't quite that strong my friend. The ranger idea, well it would work if it wasn't for that nasty degen and meditation of the reaper. The warrior idea wouldn't leave enough skill room to deal enough damage to Shiro before he'd kill you as well. Now, I may be wrong, but it DOES look like this to me. Chiyu! 13:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- You do know that Meditation of the Reaper has (Or used to have) a range, don't you? That problem is now gone. Now every class can go without fear of him. You might need a stance ending attack aswell though, for Battle Scars. Ele's have this skill called Ward against Melee and Magnetic Aura. There is a way with the Rt to 'cheat' per se, but you may need another person in your party, but they could just be like a walking corpse. Avatar of Dwayna heals you on attack. Warriors, ok agreed, they might have problems but still, MOST classes could solo him. Especcially in HM, he seems to be easier then... Al Dente
[edit] He IS a Sin
Let's be honest, the Manusscripts say it. He wields daggers. There is a weapon called 'Shiro's Blades', which are daggers. Just because he doesn't use any assa skills, he still is one.. Koen 09:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
+ He doublestrikes. Koen 09:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Everyone can use daggers, and there is a sword called Shiro's blade or something like that... 68.78.64.125 22:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Everyone can use swords. Zenikoetsu 07:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Easy Kill for Elementalist
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For this mission, get all 'punching bobs' like warrior dervish. Or get more ppl who shouldnt make a move. Only elementalist do the hard work.
Get Celestial Storm from kuunavang as soon as mission start. Then run quickly to trigger cinematic.
After the cinematic, call or flag all your punching bobs before the stairs. Activate Arcane Echo, Echo, Celestial Storm, AE, Echo and arcane again! If someone has banished, a bound spirit will spawn under the storm which nearly killed instantly. After it, celestial charges all recharge... call the 3 Celestial storms again!
Intensity, paininverter and finish him are only needed if you want to get faster shiro killed.
