User talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Support Issues/Apr - Jun 2008

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Contents 1 About Taiwanese users..... 2 hey,gaile Account suspended again 3 Inappropriate language. 4 In-game purchasing without the "PlayNC" trap 5 Character Restore Consideration. 6 PlayNC: Your Suggestions? 7 100k Trades Leading to Auto-bans 8 Ingame advertising 9 Automated Guild Spamming? 10 *sigh* 11 Account Security Concerns 12 Client Exploit Concern 13 about chinese account block 14 Reconnecting 15 Protecting Users from Themselves: Deletion Safety Net 16 GW News Reader 17 chinese account block 18 hi ,gaile 19 Question (About Inappropriate Character Names) 20 Gaile,can you help me? 21 hello gaile! i need help~ 22 Replacement of Armbrace 23 Xunlai Tournament House 24 Another support complaint 25 Help My Friend 26 reporting people 27 My Role, Appeals, & More 27.1 About Account Bans for RMT Activities

About Taiwanese users.....

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I'm a player from Taiwanese server. Please do something before you leave, Gaile! Please, we beg you! We still want to play freely in GW, so don't let them make us go! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:58.176.48.188 (talk).

As far as I can tell from the limited info available about the situation, it seems that Taiwanese law is forcing their hand. If anything, it's more about what you could do (trying to change your nation's laws) rather than what ArenaNet can/can't do. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 07:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Move to America :P--Ryudo 08:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

They could work on a way to separate the in-game economies while allowing the players in Taiwan to play with players elsewhere. One solution would be to prevent Taiwanese players from trading or dropping items in international or foreign districts and prevent foreign players from trading or dropping items in (edit: entering) Taiwanese districts, however it could take a while to code. -- Gordon Ecker 08:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It would have to prevent all players from dropping items in any instance which includes both Taiwanese players and non-Taiwanese players, which seems like it'd be a headache and a half. In any case, more information on the reason for the change can be found here. - Tanetris 08:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Errr but didnt i read somewhere that that's what Anet were doing, isolating the Taiwanese server and making it impossible for them to drop stuff in none Taiwanese only areas? Why the sudden change in direction? -- Salome 11:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

No change, this is a quote from the article that you linked to: "Users in Taiwan will still be able to participate in their international guilds and compete in international PvP, but as of April 1, they will no longer be able to enter international districts, trade with players outside Taiwan, or play in PvE environments with players outside Taiwan." -- (gem / talk) 11:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hello. I just sent letters to those who wrote, and wanted to let you know, as well, that we very much understand the concerns of those playing on the Taiwanese servers, and we are looking right now at a means to take care of players in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau. I don't have any information today on how this might be achieved, but we do hope to be able to share details soon. We very much intend to address this issue in the best way possible. -- Gaile 17:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

This isn't about a government forcing ArenaNets hand, this is about a gaming company circumventing a practice which that government deamed illegal within it's country. Rights that government gives to it's people are being taken away by ArenaNet, which is the same if ArenaNet decided to ban the accounts of all Muslim people who accessed Guild Wars. Just because you consider it acceptable in your country to remove rights from the consumer doesn't mean you can enforce that belief elsewhere. All governments should make the banning of gold farmers illegal, it violates the rights of the consumer, some things should be able to be signed away. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it seems Anet was backed into a corner here. A lose-lose situation. Let the Taiwanese stay, screw the economy for others. Disconnect the Taiwanese, make them unhappy, but keep the economy stable for the rest. Calor 18:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

So, its the Taiwanese killing the economy? 118.92.12.97 19:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be misunderstanding your position in this. All gold, all items, all characters, everything in Guild Wars is the property of ANet. You pay for the right to use them, but they aren't yours. You're saying governments should force ANet to give up their property to people they know will exploit it for their own gain. That's called socialism, and it doesn't work. Now stop feeling so goddamn entitled. --71.229.204.25 19:32, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

"Title to the Software, and all rights with respect to the Software and Service not specifically granted under this Agreement, including without limitation all rights of reproduction, modification, distribution, display, disassembly and decompilation and all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and other proprietary rights and interests are reserved to NC Interactive..." "NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Account ID or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right...." "By agreeing to the User Agreement you agree that you do not own either the Master Account or Game Account (collectively, the "Account") you use to access the service, the characters created on the Account and that NC Interactive stores on NC Interactive servers, the items stored on these servers, or any other data from which the servers and accounts are comprised..." Does this help? You have no rights to the game itself, these "rights of the consumer" do not exist. Arenanet could technically termnate every account on thier servers today, and not owe us a dime. Of course, niether Anet nor NC would ever sell a game again, so they try to avoid that. But keep in mind that they are allowed to take any action they want.Ashes Of Doom 21:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have a link to a news article covering this law or regulation? -- Gordon Ecker 03:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's what was dug up on guru about it. http://www.cpc.gov.tw/index.asp?pagenumber=4333 links to the original document regarding the law. The translation provided boiled it down to two points: 1. The customers have their right to request a total refund (and they don't even need to provide any reason) within 7 days start from the buying of the game. 2. No matter what reason, the game provider cannot ban a player's account more than 7 days (for one case). If this is really the case, no wonder Anet decided to put the wall up around Taiwan.--Pyron Sy 04:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

You would all be singing a different tune if A-Net decided to shut down the servers in your countries or prevent you from acessing the rest of the game because of something you weren't involved with. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

If my country decided to pass a law that made it impossible for Anet to run their servers to their standards, I'd understand. Yes, I'd be ticked off at the situation, but I'd be arguing with the lawmakers rather than Anet. Besides, its not like Taiwan users can't play the game at all, right? Aren't the missions still available? Can't they still PvP with the rest of us?--Pyron Sy 05:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Some things can't be signed away. This isn't the first time a country has disallowed something a company has put in its EULA - Taiwan is protecting it's people from what they decided was an unlawful policy, just because you don't have the same values doesn't make them wrong. Arena-Net is punishing non-Taiwanese players . If my country decided to kill all the white people because they didn't like them I'd understand. I can say that cause I know it won't happen. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

Taiwan is going socialist? Great! 共产主义万岁！金币给大家！我马上搬家到台湾啦！--MORTUIЯUS 05:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Most other MMORPGs either don't allow characters to move between servers or restrict it, the Guild Wars situation is fairly unique, so it probably wasn't taken into consideration by the government. Anyway, I hope that ArenaNet will implement a solution allowing players in Taiwan to play together with players outside of Taiwan while protecting the in-game economy from bots and professional gold farmers abusing the 7 day ban cap. I also hope that 122.104.160.66 stops posting, his or her horribly offensive analogies aren't helping anyone. -- Gordon Ecker 06:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll give you one guess which server everyone who DOESN'T have a problem with this change plays on? Oh yeah that's right, it's likely NOT the Taiwan servers. I guess we can all say whatever we want and be as understanding as we like as long as we ourselves don't get hurt by the actions. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

And if some other country such as Britain, Canada or France had a similar law that could be abused by botters and gold farming companies then that country's servers would be isolated as well and the player reaction would probably be the same. What do you think ArenaNet should do? -- Gordon Ecker 08:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the biggest problem Anet has with the law isn't the 7 day ban limit, but the 7 day mandatory refund. While it wouldn't affect players who want to keep their characters, it's a gold mine for botters. Just buy the game, farm for 6 days, transfer the gold, then demand a refund. With that in place, Anet loses tons of money. So it appears to me that the situation is not so much to lessen the impact of botters on the global GW economy (while that is still an issue) but to lessen the huge amounts of free game keys being given to botters due to this insane law. And unfortunately, there's not a lot that can be done to get around it, other than to separate the gold farmers from their potential clients, which has been done.--Pyron Sy 15:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Being able to seek a refund isn't 'insane' but like anything it can be abused. Damn, if I knew about all the issues Guild Wars has within seven days I probably would want my money back too. 118.92.12.97 20:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just throwing this out there, but couldn't they put this restriction on Taiwanese players just for the first week on a new account? I have no idea how hard it would be to implement, but it might solve problems both for ArenaNet and the Taiwanese players. Kokuou 20:39, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

It would just make Arenanet look even worse, it would be seen as doing absolutely everything it can to disrespect the laws of individual countries or any sense of fairness to its consumers in general.118.92.12.97 20:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I would rather that phrases like "make ArenaNet look worse" don't enter into this discussion. There are many ways in which the urgent matter could have been addressed that would have been more drastic. I feel that in this matter, ArenaNet and NC Taiwan made a good choice for the best short-term solution. But it is a short-term solution, and should not be held to high scrutiny as the final outcome because, as I have said, ArenaNet and NC Taiwan are working very hard to find a better long-term solution to this problem, one that allows the companies to respect local law, but takes care of our players, too. That truly is all there is to say on this subject at this time. -- Gaile 20:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Respectfully, Gaile, words or phrases you personally don't want to hear in a discussion is irrelevant. What is the old saying, "First impressions last..." this may be a short term thing in your and Arenanet's eye, but could very well stain the reputation of Arenanet in the eyes of some Taiwanese as it effectively bundles the taiwanese in the "possible gold seller - game abusers" category. My sympathy goes to any and all PvE players in Taiwanese that play the game for its 'international appeal' - ie who played the game on more than just the taiwanese server (as I've partied with some and they're top blokes/lasses) lets hope Arenanet finds a far better solution than this. 118.92.12.97 21:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe we all will benefit from keeping a discussion of this topic on logical, unexaggerated, fact-based grounding. Let us strive to discuss without comments that inflame a situation or hyperbolize necessary, short-term steps into some sort of conspiracy or group-wide bias. For neither allegation or assumption is at all accurate, and such comments are irresponsible, unfair, and noncontributory. -- Gaile 22:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Like what she said, aNet and NC Taiwan did the best thing they could as of the moment with such new laws on that territory. It's a really hard and bitter pill to take but there's nothing we can do if we just complain here and not complain to the people who needs to hear your voices. Voice it out in Taiwan where it really matters most as I know aNet and NC Taiwan did the very best they can for the time being. Be glad to know that what happened isn't permanent as it is only a temporary solution; and just like other business decisions some will not always reflect best for the company but they just have to. I'm sorry for everyone's losses. Renin 22:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

As I am sorry, for the distress and for the inconvenience. I believe, in the end, that a happy resolution will be arrived at. In fact, I'm quite sure of it! -- Gaile 23:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Nay offense Gaile, but IMHO the comments made by the IP person were quite valid and your insinuation that he wasnt being logical or grounded was really quite flippant and insulting. It is logical for one to conclude that many taiwanese will be insulted by this move and that it may affect anet's reputation there. I am not debating the ins and outs of the subject as personally I agree with anets stance on this and I have every faith in anet working out a better long term solution, instead i'm just commenting that perhaps you shouldn't be so flippant towards perfectly valid, all be it opposing, view points from your own, as you were verging on being condescending to Mr 118.92.12.97 in your response above. Regards -- Salome 00:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, I would like us to discuss the issue. My comments were written, and intended to be read, in a neutral tone. I am sorry if you, or anyone, read them otherwise. Gaile 01:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Salome. Ahh, my ip changed again, gonna have to just make a profile... 203.173.194.112 06:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'm very excited about this news, which was just posted as a Developer Update. I hope that all Guild Wars players in Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong greet the announcement with as much joy as I do! -- Gaile 04:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Good job Arenanet :) --Lumenil 23:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

hey,gaile Account suspended again

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

My account got suspended again, and I believe Anet should do something to compensate for hurting my feelings. --Weillz 07:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

What reason this time? 118.92.12.97 09:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

And I believe you should send this to support like everyone else. Vael Victus 14:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Please contact support. -- Gaile 17:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Weillz, I hope that support was able to help you. Did you get things sorted out ok? -- Gaile 07:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

ok, my account has back, but they didnt conpensated me, im disappointed..this is the second time --Weillz 23:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad that it all sorted out well, and am sorry for your inconvenience. -- Gaile 23:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Inappropriate language.

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I asked this before, but i forgot to come back and check for an answer. Could you, or someone else, explain why people can have their account suspended for "inappropriate language" when 1) there's a chat filter, 2) most of the "Inappropriate language" is in hate whispers, where you can't report them, 3) The game says that parent should take responsibility for their kids. Meaning people who are over 18, or have the permission of a guardian shouldn't be offended by the "f bomb" as well as alternative words for parts of the body. I'm thinking the only reason anyone reports such things is just to get back at them for something, and it has nothing to do with the person actually being offended. Which brings us back, if they are offended, they should have the chat filter on.--99.225.57.217 03:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Also it'd be cool if you could leave the response on my talk page in case i forget, again.--Ohnoes 03:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Because it's the rules of the game and the rules are not your choice to make, but rather yours to follow if you want to continue playing the game. — ク Eloc 貢 03:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

If rules are flawed, it is the follower's duty to set out to change them. A law on whether or not women can go topless was changed in Ontario for this same reason. Girl wanted to take her top off, did, got arrested, took it to the court, proved the rule doesn't make sense, rule was changed. Sorry, but that's the only example i can think of off the top of my head--Ohnoes 03:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Ya, but why ask Gaile, she's quitting and she has probably no power to change it. — ク Eloc 貢 04:02, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

She can speak to the people who make the rules, remember that some of the suggestions people shout out in LA int1 sometimes get added to the game.--Ohnoes 04:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

First off, Arenanet is trying to create an enjoyable atmosphere for all players, young and old. The easiest way to maintain this atmosphere is to create limitations on those actions and verbal abuse that destroy this atmosphere. Second, chat filters do not necessarily cover all forms of verbal abuse since slang and words that have more than one meaning will not always be blocked. The phrase that says parents should take responsibility for their kids in no way means that the child should not be offended by other's words, but rather informs parents that they should be ready to accept any consequences, positive or negative, that are a result from game play. Finally, why is this a problem in the first place? When playing games, do you require to swear and use inappropriate language, specifically in "hate whispers," in order to create a suitable playing environment? The answer is a resounding no, and thus leads to the conclusion of this idea that why should they allow something that may upset some players and does not provide any benefits to game play other than "cultural" experience. The argument does not apply with Ontario laws since this is a contract and not a law. In playing the game, you were required to accept the terms of service, which included refraining from inappropriate language and many other things. Since you accepted the contract, you are a subject to the contract and are held responsible for violating any portion of that contract, even if you deem it "flawed." I hopes this sheds some light on your question. Respectfully, Rooble0818

Those are some good points, except that i am seeking to have the rule changed. I'm not saying verbal abuse is ok, and when i said hate whispers, i meant that as in i get them ALL THE TIME. Both of these times i've been suspended i had been pretty mellow all day, and any swearing was done either in a joking manner, or in a way that is making fun of myself or my own tactics. The chat filters gets everything, even things that aren't even swear words. "Dyke" is a kind of dam, "fag" is commonly used in Britain/Ireland as another word for cigarette. Even "G E R R O H" is blocked by the name filter(and likely the chat filter), for some odd, confusing reason. There's even Mr. Shagu, the Paragon boss. And the main part of all this is: People report inappropriate language to get back at someone, not because they want a better environment. If everyone who swore got reported every single time, GW American districts would start looking a lot like the Korean districts. They need to remove "inappropriate language" and change it to "verbal abuse" and add the ability to report people who whisper you.--99.225.57.217 18:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Old Post Best answer I ever read. Chik En 19:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, if it offends someone, turn filter on, the thing blocks EVERYTHING, i've tried. Verbal abuse is one thing, i think that should be punished, but casual swearing is common, it's everywhere, and it's certainly not offensive to anyone person whose mentality is under 50 years old. It says "Game experience may change during online play" That means there's swearing. If people want to avoid swearing, they can turn on chat filter. If it isn't enough, turn off local chat, if that isn't enough, turn off team chat. Swearing is socially acceptable, and the fact remains: People are using this to get back at people, who here has honestly reported for "inappropriate language" because they were offended by something the filter blocks?--99.225.57.217 20:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The chat filter is flawed, yes. It blocks some words, or parts of words, which should not (always) be blocked. It is a strange line of reasoning that leads from this to wanting the rules changed or gone- rather, it would make more sense if you would ask for the word filter to be fixed or improved somehow. Casual swearing is common, and socially acceptable? I'd hate to live where you live. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's okay. I once read an article about rape in South Africa- according to the article, 1 in 3 women there get raped at least once at some point in their life, meaning that rape would be common there. Should it be legalised just because it's common? Of course not. It may be a far-off example, but it makes the point I'm making crystal clear. Your line of reasoning is extremely crooked.

To answer your question- I have honestly reported people for inappropriate language, more than once. I turned my filter off long ago because it blocked out parts of the game content itself (such as the infamous ----ed Cleric) and because some words it filters have more than one meaning and are often blocked out of context. It also did NOT filter a number of very rude terms in several other languages, which rather defeated its purpose. Should I be forced to put up with people's bad attitudes and breach of ToS just because I want to be able to follow the flow of the game, read enemy names, and refer to certain animals? No. Gaile and others have explained ANet's stance very eloquently, I hope that one day you will understand it. You agreed to the terms, so live with them. -- Elv 21:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"and socially acceptable? I'd hate to live where you live." Judgemental ftl. I live in the suburbs of a city about 100,000 people, in Canada, with farmer's fields and forests just a short walk away. Swearing is socially acceptable in the way that it comes out when necessary to get a point across, not every 3 words. I'm saying verbal abuse should be reportable(especially with whispers), however swearing shouldn't, unless it's horridly grotesque detailed things we don't want to hear, which won't be blocked by the filter anyways. If there's swearing in another language that you don't want to hear, that's a problem with the filter, not the rules. If you go on the internet, you're going to find swearing/offensive things, no matter what. There is swearing everywhere, done by nearly everyone, all the time. If they don't like it, turn on the filter, if you turn off the filter on a search engine you accept responsibility for finding things ranging from offensive to horribly disgusting, the same should be (to some extent) true for Guild Wars. The rule should be changed, i'm not going to go into GW cursing until it's changed or anything, but i'm not going to just sit around and let rules i disagree with keep going.--Ohnoes 22:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The last time I swore, people ran to the window to check for flying pigs. I swear, but I swear very rarely, I swear mildly, and I apologise for my language because I do not think it is okay at all. It's a way to vent frustration, it's never necesary to really get your message across. For every rude word, there are at least ten other more polite words or ways for you to employ to get your message across. I would sincerely hate to live in an environment where people felt it necessary to swear to get a message across. It doesn't mean I wouldn't like the people who lived there, or that I would think of them as bad people; it just means that I would find their (ab)use of language horrible and would not enjoy being around them much. As for different languages and the filter... there are far too many languages in the world for any one company to design a filter that effectively blocks out all or most of the worst abusive terms in all of those languages. It's not even remotely realistic to expect ANet to develop something like that. Disappointing as it is, Support too is limited to a handful of languages. It will always be flawed. That still doesn't mean the rules should be changed.

I don't agree with your everywhere, all the time. I don't know what places on the Internet you go to, but in my decade or so online I've largely avoided the swearing masses you seem to be talking about. I'd also like to point out something crucial here: There is a difference between actively looking for certain words on the internet (I'd never type "ass" into a search engine if I wanted information about the animal- I know full well what I'd be likely to find instead) and simply browsing around familiar places. I go to places with rules I agree with, or agree with enough that I can live with them as they are. Guild Wars has rules like this and it's one of the reasons why I choose to play it. Their filter is fundamentally broken, so I don't use it, but that does not void my right to ask for the rules as they are to be upheld by my fellow players. I agreed to the rules and live by them, it's only fair that I expect others to do the same.

If you still play, then at some point you did in fact agree to uphold these rules- whether you like to admit this to yourself or not. Even Guild Wars has a very 'Real Life' tone at some points- in the end, it's just a contract that lets you play, and your breach of contract will have you face the full consequences of this. You knew, when you accepted the terms, that you could get banned for things like botting and swearing. ANet has every right to ban you, temporarily or permanently, if you cannot keep to your part of the bargain. If you really disagree with the terms, then maybe the next time the terms are updated and you're asked to accept or decline before you can continue playing, you should decline. Don't accept just so you can play and then come here to complain about the rules anyway. For all your talking of taking responsibility and accepting consequences, you seem to have some real issues acknowledging and accepting your own. -- Elv 23:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(RI)Not all words have the same meaning, even ones with similar meanings don't quite come to the same exact meaning, otherwise we wouldn't have them. If you're REALLY ang-- angry doesn't work here, pissed off, you can't say "Why don't you buzz off?!", it just doesn't get the message across, in fact, people may think you're joking. "Swear" words are just as much a part of the English language as any other word, and for some strange reason they're deemed by (very few) people to be "bad" or "inappropriate". If you have honestly never seen swearing on a web site, you can't be using the internet much. Flash animations are full of swearing, video games, music, everything, and often in music the musician must swear to get his point across, 'cause that's the way society is. Swearing is a part of my normal vocabulary, few of my teachers in my school care if we swear, so long as it's kept under control. I keep my swearing under control, and use a very large vocabulary, aiming for the right words to get what i say across, yet because of rules set in place 100's of years ago, rules that just barely apply today(Mostly because of the older or more isolated people, no offense) I have to watch my tongue? I am not asking to sing newer rap songs here, i'm simply saying that verbal abuse should be reportable, while reporting someone for saying "ass" as in "I'm an ass"(Similar comments towards myself were the cause of my most recent suspension) is totally ridiculous. Should i be reported for saying the word "bondage", or "fetish"? Some poeple would find these highly offensive! =O! However, to much of the world, these are things some people like, things some people don't like. And no, i don't expect a perfect word filter, i support Anet in many ways, which my Unofficial Wiki page will say, however, i think this should be changed, not removed entirely, but people(majority) only report to get back at people.--Ohnoes 23:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm a linguist, you don't need to tell me about different meanings of words. I've always found the more polite words just fine for expressing myself, and just because you feel the need to resort to more aggressive language doesn't mean that you'll not be taken seriously if you tell someone to go away. Really, it makes the point just fine. I switched my filter off because I don't agree with the blocking of some words with more than one meaning. Your claim that "very few" people think swearing is bad and inappropriate is just your justification for your use of these words, not a fact, I'm sorry.

I'm actually on the Internet every day, for several hours or more. Is that "not much" by your standards? I simply choose not to go to whatever places you apparently visit. As for music- most styles of music are actually not about swearing at all. Sure, if you want to listen to 50 Cent, that's fine, but it's only a handful of very specific styles that are as explicit as you say, and I don't listen to those. (I don't even think of most of it as music, but the definition I uphold is irrelevant to this discussion.)

Again, your community may be fine and dandy where swearing is concerned, but you're making a huge mistake by thinking or even claiming that it is a perfect mirror of the rest of the world. It's not. I would have taken you seriously if you hadn't resorted to "older and more isolated". I'm 21, I live in a city, and I work in the oil and gas industry. I work with all kinds of people from all kinds of places, and so far I've yet to encounter anyone in the crowd who would think it perfectly okay or appropriate to swear. This is a multicultural crowd I'm talking about. Yes, you do have to watch your tongue. Not with "ass", because as far as I'm concerned, that's not swearing- I will gladly point anyone who tells me otherwise to my multi-volume Oxford. As far as I know, you won't get banned for using that word once in a slip. If you did, you probably spammed that word, or other words, repeatedly and/or have a history of using bad language that Support is aware of.

Most people don't report to get back at people, and this certainly won't always end up in a ban. Support is maintained by real people, and there is no such thing as an automatic ban that will result from a report. If you got banned, it means that someone looked at the logs and found what you did was offensive enough to justify banning you. If someone calls you names, and you resort to the same and find yourself banned for it, that's regrettable, but you will have allowed it to happen to yourself. The best course of action, even though you might not like it and would rather swear back, is to print screen and make a ticket. No one will be able to report you for not swearing back, and you're probably going to get the instigator banned instead. If you really want to let off steam just yell at your screen- I've never heard of that taking offense and submitting a ticket. There are plenty of people who get banned for language, which means that there are also plenty of people reporting them (a logical step after having taken offense). The Guild Wars community is bigger than just a few spiteful 14-year-olds who would resort to Reporting Revenge tactics, you know.

As for my own reporting policy... I keep local chat off most of the time. It's more efficient than the filter in some ways, and spares me a lot of unwanted spam to boot. I switch it on when I feel like using it; i.e. during festivals or when I feel like chatting and meeting new people. For the most part I stick to GC and AC nowadays. I will never report someone for a single use of the f-word in any chat. I can get over that just fine, I'm a big girl. I will report people who use it repeatedly, or who use it because they feel that they're allowed to because of our imperfect filter. These people are the people obviously looking to cause offense, not the person who used the f-word once because he died in Hard Mode in a big mob he thought he could tank. With that I've said my piece, and in any other responses I can only refer back to what I've said already. I think the rules are fine as they are. I hope that I've opened your eyes to a bigger world out there, and to different points of view. You don't have to agree with them, but you might want to consider their existence before making bold claims next time. As a last comment, because it needs to be said- thank you for the discussion, and for staying polite. It's a sensitive topic, and I rarely have the privilege of discussing it with someone who behaves well throughout. -- Elv 13:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Well yes, my point of view on the matter has changed, not solely from you, but from just about everyone involved in this subject, i've gone from "Remove report for inappropriate language" to "Replace with verbal abuse and make it possible to report people who whisper you". Bots often enter a district, whisper everyone in less than a second, and leave before they can be reported, another reason we should be able to report whispers. Everytime i've got a suspension i haven't been swearing excessively, maybe one "offensive" word every few sentences.

And do you really think someone won't report to get back at someone? Let's say we're in PvP. Player 1 Defeats overconfident Player 2, and doesn't make a scene about it, but they yell out "Fuck!" when they finally do die. Now, if overconfident, childish Player 2 hadn't been defeated and was able to control their temper, they'd let it slide, however, because they believe theirselves to be the best, and have just been defeated by a "scrub", they report Player 1. That is a perfect case of spite-reporting. If the people who review the reports see this they'd suspend the person, but they won't suspend them if they don't see it, clearly. It may be grounds for a suspension, but Player 2 wouldn't've reported it if they had kept their temper under control.

I don't listen to (new)rap, and i despise Curtis Jackson(50 cent) probably as much as you do, if not more. However swearing is in most of the popular music. Most Rap, Rock, Industrial, etc. Even some of the emo stuff has swearing, to say "only a handful" involves swearing is purely ignorant.

You can't possibly think that GW would be better off with "Inappropriate language" reporting and no way to report "Verbal Abuse" as well as whispers.

I'm not asking to be un-suspended, it really doesn't bother me much, i just think people shouldn't be punished for something that happens everywhere. When i said "isolated" i meant people who don't go out to raves, un-supervised parties, people who(In general) have heavy morals and rules, and think people who do drugs and have pre-marital sex are monsters.--Ohnoes 20:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wisdom says: 1. If you can say it to your 101 (yes i have one) year old grandmother, then you can say it here. 2. Freedom of speech is guaranteed (anet is in Seatle) by the U.S. Constitution, however, Respect is something that is just as important. Respect your (note, they are YOURS) words, and you won't have to worry about making someone angry to report you. After all, THIS IS A GAME.

no thats retarded --Cursed Angel 20:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I have the freedom to choose the games I want to play. I want to play a game where people don't go around yelling obscenities or abusing others verbally or otherwise. So I choose a game where these things are not tolerated. This is my way of voting in a democratic society. ANet has the right to enforce my wishes, or more appropriately, to enforce the wishes of the majority of GW players. Nothing retarded here. -- Alaris 20:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have been following this discussion with interest, and it seems to me that it could be considered a good topic for the Support Issues page, since it involves player input into our policies on in-game behavior. I'll move it to that page now, and of course, you're welcome to continue the conversation there. -- Gaile 17:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Player input into our policies on in-game behavior? By that, I assume that you are siding with us who want a cleaner environment. Swearing is like smoking in public, it's not fair to tell people who don't smoke that they should wear a gas mask if they don't want the negative effects of smoking. As for the filter, as perfect as it gets, people will find ways to go around it. And there's no limit to how creative some people can get to find ways to offend others. I respect that ANet takes action to protect the game from such polluters. Thank you ANet, and thank you Gaile Gray. -- Alaris 19:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Like alternative spellings, and leet speak. Saw a prime example of just that at the final goodbye party in Shing Jea not two minutes ago. I read an article the other day about the origins of leet speak, and the theory was that it was originally invented to avoid language filters. Sad, but probably true... I agree with Alaris on the matter detailed above. -- Elv 19:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

two different issues, one that alaris brought up and what the original post was. people who report other people for "language" issues are becoming a nuesense. while its all fine and dandy that you want a cleaner environment i don't believe your understanding WHY he is mad at the language bannings. from what the original poster has been saying, people are using language as a free pass to spite other players. while it wouldnt be an issue if they swore badly and repetitively, the fact that anet fires THROUGH the chat filters and ignores them when they ban is very bad. way back when, when we had to toss a support ticket through guildwars.com, we had to provide picture proof, and even then, even when we had the filters up, supports first three responses were, 1) check your chat filter 2) ignore him 3) send another ticket if it continues.

It is not a matter of people who are abusing the flaws in the system to curse, its the people using the flaws in the system to piss other people off with a free pass. 64.149.24.114 19:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest that there are two questions here:

• What is the player responsible for controlling?

A word filter is provided with three settings. This filters allows a player to see all chat, unchecked, to see it with moderate filtering, or to see it with stringent filtering. It is up to the player to find his or her level of comfort and to use the filter for its intended purpose.

• What is the developer responsible for controlling?

Because there is a filter, the developer has offered the first level of language censorship support directly to the players, allowing them to set their own preferences. The developer would get involved when someone steps across the line, for instance, circumvents the filter with creative spelling or uses words that, while harmless by themselves, or "below the radar" of the filter, become offensive, inflammatory, or profane when used in combination. For instance, the word "sex" in and of itself is not offensive. "What sex is your Mesmer?" is a perfectly harmless question. But no one needs a roadmap to see how the use of that same word, in another context, can definitely cross the line into offensiveness, or harassment, or other disallowed activities.

In an instance when someone does cross that line -- for either offensive chat or for offensive names -- we have a means to contact us built right into the game. Select the person, type /report, and hit "Verbal Abuse" for offensive language or "Inappropriate Character Name" for a unacceptable name. Keep in mind that there is a degree if subjectivity in both language and name choices, which means that it would be impossible to meet the exact standards of each individual player. The actions taken against names or language will conform to generally-accepted standards of verbiage, even if they may be a bit more conservative, or a bit more liberal, than some individuals would prefer.

And incidentally, character names are not handled by the word filter in the same way that chat is handled. Therefore, we are very appreciative of any reports of inappropriate names. Use the /report system or, if you wish, send an email to reportname@arena.net and we will deal with that matter. Note: The email address is only for offensive character or guild names, or offensive guild acronyms. Please do not send reports of any other kind to that address.

I hope this information is helpful, and welcome player input on the matter at any time! -- Gaile 20:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you, Gaile, but only in part- the filter does blank out words that have more than one meaning. Maybe not all of them, but some. The most well-known ones are "ass" and "damn"; the former certainly counts in the category of inoffensive unless the context makes it so, and the latter, while some may think it offensive, actually occurs in the in-game dialogue. The last time I used the filter, the first 6 letters of the word Assassin would still get blocked, and so would the first 4 of the Damned Cleric monster's name (On the normal filter, not the max one). This is one of the main reasons why I stopped using it... it's just too flawed, and it really gets in the way of harmless conversation or gameplay sometimes. Of course, this may have been fixed in the meantime, but I haven't exactly checked it recently. There are probably many more words that are ambiguous enough to be left out, but I'm not about to switch on my filter again and spam all those words to see what happens. ;)

In that light, expecting players to use the filter or just put up with whatever happens is not entirely fair, and at least the ambiguous words would deserve a review. If not for the GW filter, then at least for the one that will be implemented into GW2. Is this something that is being worked on? Has anything been fixed or improved at all since GW was originally released? -- Elv 21:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Good point, Elveh. I had forgotten about those pesky (maybe even silly) exceptions, like assassin and damned cleric. I just tested, and "Assassin" is no longer blocked, at any filter level. "Damn" and "Damned" Cleric are blocked, even at the moderate level. I agree that's rather strange, since we used the name in the game text/naming protocols themselves. Thanks for pointing those out and I'll see if we can get that changed! -- Gaile 21:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad Assassin at least got fixed- it really got in the way of serious game discussion. There are a number of other words that may need looking into, of course, but I trust that if the team is aware of the issue, they can think of the most obvious ones for themselves. I guess if these things get fixed any time soon, I will have no objections to switching my filter back on again. Thanks! :) -- Elv 05:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'll be ... darned. ;) "Damn" and "Damned" have been adjusted on the word filter to what we feel will be a more appropriate level of filtering. Thanks for pointing this out. -- Gaile 21:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

That's fantastic. Strangely enough, I have a sudden urge to log on and adjust my filter, just so I can run into a random explorable in Kryta and spam "I'm attacking Damned Cleric!". ;) -- Elv 09:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Been there, done that. *cough* Hey, I was testing! ;) -- Gaile 02:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

In-game purchasing without the "PlayNC" trap

→ moved from User:Gaile Gray/Website suggestions

I will assume that this is not the first time that this point has been bought up. But I do wish to suggest this again. At the moment, in order to purchase extra character slots, skill packs, MBP's or expansions on-line, a player MUST register the account with PlayNC. It is no secret that in doing so the ability to change one's Log-in name is removed from the game. After that, only the password can be changed. Prior to writing this, I have invested considerable time discussing this issue in-game with many players, 94% of whom support my thoughts. Having one's Log-in name Hijacked and locked when purchasing through the current system, eliminates the ability to change that login, therefore reducing our ability to protect ourselves from would-be hackers by 50%, with a regular password change being our only protection. These affected accounts are far easier prey for anyone with a reasonable amount of computer savy and hacking experience. I have argued the point with PlayNC and have tried to get my account unlocked. Although they eventually admitted that this could easily be done, they simply refused to do so.

In short, I have a total of 9 active accounts with all expansions enabled. The remaining 8 accounts (untouched by PlayNC) cannot and will not be upgraded with slots and MBP's etc while the current hijacking policy is in place. Players should note that there is NO warning that this will be the case prior to, during, or after the account is created and changed. Like many other casual and hard core gamers, we would like to spend the money to upgrade our accounts, but the ramification of doing so, is simply too risky. PLEASE, let's have a "Direct in-game purchasing process" that doesn't change our accounts.

It's not too late for GW1, I have a great deal of time and money invested, and like most other veteran players, will continue to play the current game as well as GW2 when it becomes available. We have serious money to spend, please let us do so. Give us an alternative to the current system. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:121.44.56.179 (talk).

This is a concern that I take very seriously. In truth, I have been pinging different folks on at least two different teams about this for a very long time. Regretably, for reasons beyond their control, the matter is taking a long time to resolve. However, I have been told that this has been moved up in the queue, and that new means to resolve it will be brought to bear. That means that we may have a resolution on this in the near future. And by "near future," I do not mean "sometime this year." :) From what I have been told, an amendment of the system to allow password and user names changes for a merged Guild Wars/PlayNC account should be in place within the next month or a few months, at most.

I am truly sorry for the length of time that it has taken to resolve this. In fact, this matter is one of the very reasons that I was excited to accept my new role as Support Liaison for ArenaNet. For the new role will allow me to serve as an advocate of player appeals, suggestions, and concerns about game and account support matters and to take those directly to the development and support teams. So I hope we will have good news about this in the very near future, and I thank you for your well-reasoned and logical concerns. -- Gaile 04:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Just a follow-up that I have not heard of any changes to this matter, and I sent another inquiry about it today. Hope to have info soon! -- Gaile 21:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Character Restore Consideration.

Ms Gray. As an advocate for player concerns you might want to consider making a case for character restore possibility. In case of un-/intentional character deletion by former friends, little siblings, spouses etc or simple a technical error it would be a BIG comfort to me and many players to be able to restore the (Main) Character. This restore would be without armor, weapons, money, minipets or items in the bags.

It would be a naked Character but with Titles, accomplishments and HoM intact. A lot of game-grieve would be solved. I agree it can be misused in some way i have not figured out. But as long as there is nothing to be gained from the restore other than retrieving a somehow deleted, beloved and hard worked on character it would just be an unhurtfull restore for the love of the game.

--Silverleaf 07:35, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Silverleaf. This is a real nice idea, and I certainly can see the value of such a thing. In fact, I have asked a few Dev Team members about the idea of restorations. Unfortunately, a restoration of this kind is not possible. The data on the achievements, for instance, would not be stored but would be removed when the character was deleted, just as the record of what armour sets that character wore would be removed. (And if you wonder why, consider how much data is already stored for an account, and how much more would need to be stored if such extensive records were maintained for deleted characters, too!)

The answer that one dev gave me was this: "This is about account security and each player is responsible for his or her account security. Allowing someone else to access the account is the biggest risk that a player can take, even if it's a best friend or family member. The best way to retain a character is to not lose a character. That means choosing a unique and complex password and never, ever sharing that information with anyone." I have to say that I don't recall any technical issue that has resulted in the deletion of a character, and naturally we would want to address such a possibility if it existed.

So again, I realize that an answer about account security isn't precisely the answer that you were hoping for in making the suggestion. However, account security is at the core of the request, and I'm afraid that the answer here is the only one that is practical and reasonable at this time. Thanks. -- Gaile 19:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but that means i have to be glued to my game-pc and cannot make a sandwich, go to the toilet or answer the doorbell. There is no Ctrl+Alt+Del, Enter option to protect my account while answering to natures call. Killing the question with a standardized rehearsed answer cannot be what Anet & NCSoft stand for. They did impossible things to create the game. Do the possible for added account security. AAs ever though...Thank you for answering Gaile :). Some could take an example from your CC standards. --Silverleaf 17:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

What version of windows are you using? In most modern versions of windows, Ctrl+Alt+Del brings up the Windows Security dialogue box, allowing you to lock your PC. If not, what about getting a lock for your room? -- Gordon Ecker 22:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

That's good advice; thanks Gordon. I have gotten so ingrained into the system of locking down my computer at the office that I often try to do it at home. George the Cat always gets a strange expression when I do. I don't know if he's laughing at me for my slip-up, or realizing that he no longer has access to order the 100-pound bag of Friskies Cat Food. :)

And hey, Silverleaf, that's no "standardized, rehearsed answer!" I wanted to give you guys the direct quote, but it's not from some "101 responses to blow off the customer" booklet, it's honestly what I was told about security, and I think it's a pretty decent comment! Anyway, just wanted you to know that. :)

On the subject of character deletions, we are having a discussion about the subject related to prevention, rather than amendment, on my talk page if you care to join in. It's great to have input on this subject, particularly looking at suggestions that may impact Guild Wars 2.-- Gaile 20:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

About locking the workstation -- a standard home-user installation of even XP Pro does not allow for locking the workstation via "ctrl-alt-del - enter" as ctrl-alt-del just immediatly brings up the Task Manager . . . . However, you can still lock the box using WINDOWS-L. (Assuming a win-key keyboard).

Also, at least on my machine, if you WIN-L (or ctrl-alt-delete) out of Guild Wars, the system restores the game to full screen immediatly, so there's no futzing around to switch back in, just a possible res swap. Now if only I could get VirtuaWin to do that (since I always run GW in a certain desktop, my browsers in another, etc.).

And . . . would keeping a deleted char in the game for another day or two really be that big of a data drain? (Assuming that it would not allow for keeping more deleted records than the user has character slots?) --Star Weaver 04:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

PlayNC: Your Suggestions?

As you know, support for Guild Wars comes for most players through the PlayNC system. Have you had experience in using that system? Or would you be willing to take a look and share your thoughts? You see, a fellow ArenaNet Team member asked this week about the possibility of making a few changes to PlayNC to help players using the system in a non-native language, for example, a Polish- or Chinese-speaking player using the system in English. And that made me think that it would be really interesting to hear from a variety of players about how the system works for them, not just as far as language support goes but in a more general sense, too.

Now, I know that the PlayNC system supports all NCsoft games, and making changes isn't something that is done lightly or easily. On the other hand, what if we could brainstorm a few great suggestions here that the PlayNC Team could consider in the future when they are assessing potential improvements to the system? I think that's a terrific goal! With that in mind, I'd like to invite you to share your thoughts. Is there phrasing that could be clearer? Is there functionality that could be friendlier? Have you noticed a particular part of submitting a report that could use some smoothing? ArenaNet and NCsoft both value input from players and are always looking for ways to improve. So I look forward to reading your ideas, and I will relay them to the team. -- Gaile 02:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Earlier there were a lot of things that made the support area very unfriendly for users, causing multiple people who I met in game to not report bugs/misbehavior/etc. It eems like the system has been improved, and I'll have to (later) see what it is like today, but ther's atleast one problem left that caused a lot of misunderstandings. Filing a support tcket through the system is called "Ask a question", which is very misleading when someone wants to report a game bug or do something else that isn't actually asking a question. Some rewording would be necessary, or maby you could split the system to have Q&A and reports separately. -- (gem / talk) 06:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

User friendliness could definitely use improvement, especially where password support is concerned. I am still really disappointed with the treatment I got when I needed help changing my password through PlayNC, because as an honest player and a paying customer it's immensely offending to be made to feel as if you're a criminal. The response I got and the willingness to actually help me out was virtually zero until I posted here with my complaint, and I don't think I should have to complain here or anywhere before I get the help I need.

For one thing the list of things needed to get the help you want should be revised. I remember being asked for a "unique account ID", which was supposedly emailed to me 3 years ago. Well, I did another dig through my (massive) inbox, and I actually found the activation email. It turns out I did save it after all. It also turns out that it does not contain this account ID. It's possible that this was introduced after I joined GW, but it's pretty uninformed of PlayNC to ask me for things which they might have known I never received. I really did my best to give them everything they wanted- all their nit-picky little things, but what put me off most was the "we're not helping you until you also send us scans of all those keys you've just listed". After 3 years it's a small miracle anyone even still has those slips of paper, and I never saw the point of having to send those as well as simply listing the keys they contain. It made me feel like they thought I was a liar, that I was some kind of criminal who needed to prove her innocence. After having provided Support with everything I could in full detail, that was immensely upsetting.

You interfered in this case yourself, Gaile, so for further details about what happened I can simply refer back to the post I made here at the time. I'm simply highlighting the main concerns now- unfriendliness, no apparent wish to actually assist, and apparently being unaware of account activation processes.

The one time I wrote an exploit report (about the Mallyx exploit) didn't really improve my opinion either. I had never fought Mallyx at the time, but the exploit didn't seem the way to go for a first time either, and so I reported the bug as soon as I heard of it. I knew a few friends had been taken to the secret outpost, so they confirmed to me that the whole thing was real. As far as I'm aware none of them actually fought Mallyx that way, and none of them were banned. Even so, when I wrote my report and asked what might happen, I got a reply telling me that exploits were bad (duh) and that I shouldn't make use of them because I was risking my account. Duh? I took the time to report it out of concern for the game. for my friends, and because I know that exploits are a big bad evil zombie monster. It seemed strange to me that I of all people was being given the lecture on it, and it was another moment where I was being made to feel like a criminal.

I'm also concerned about the way bug reports are dealt with. A friend and I ran into a really strange bug a while ago that occurred after I crashed and reloaded, and I took the time to make screenshots and write a detailed report. I got the standard general email, then another reply saying "we don't know if this is a known bug, your report will be forwarded". The ticket was then closed. I would at least have liked a third reply, if only to tell me whether or not it was a known bug and whether or not it was even possible to fix it. I never got that reply, though, and as a result I keep my fingers crossed at every 007 I encounter, because I don't want to run into that bug again. It really sucks that tickets tend to be closed after 72 hours (excepting the case below) unless you reply. Personally I feel it's a waste of time (mine and Support's) to send an "any news?" message every 3 days, you see, but apparently that's what's needed to actually see results.

There was also a report I made after the territory change button was removed, following open travel between districts. There is no way to set a default for yourself, and as a result I still get thrown into American districts after every log-in, even though I've long since gone back to playing on the European servers. This too I've mentioned before, and I took the time and effort to write my ticket as clear as possible. It was forwarded again, but after that it took two weeks before I got another proper reply to it. It was a known issue, and they were "working on it". Ticket closed. It's been months now, and I haven't seen a fix nor do I even know if it's still being worked on. It's hardly motivating for me to bother with writing a ticket at all these days. Considering my history with Support, I think it should be understandable that I really don't feel it's going to make a difference anymore. Is it any wonder that I'd rather post here and ask you, instead of going to Support? -- Elv 10:29, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Skimming through PlayNC support content that I would describe as "FAQs" I'm baffled by pages like this one that throws line after line of seemingly random notes at the viewer. I would be looking for an Alphabetical ordering system on a page like that. A few entries might then also benefit from losing prefix content like "Using the..." from "Using the Guild Wars Diagnostic Utility. eg. "Guild Wars Diagnostic Utility Usage Guide," or something like that. I also see "System Requirements for Guild Wars" 'prominently' displayed right at the bottom of the list... ;) Yikes! I can't say that I know where else those notes are published, but I do vaguely recall having a look around for some at some point last year and came to the conclusion that the search could have been easier. --WarBlade 13:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just wondering, because it's been a while... has this been looked into, Gaile? Are they working on improvements? -- Elv 08:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I missed the question there! Yes, they are looking at a pretty significant overhaul of the report system. I'm very pleased that we'll be seeing changes, even though I believe they will not roll out until the fall. -- Gaile 06:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) We have a meeting next week on this subject, so this is a great time to share your thoughts on making support more approachable and more helpful to the players! -- Gaile 03:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

100k Trades Leading to Auto-bans

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hello Gaile, it was suggested I inform you of this problem as well. As of right now, I have still not received an update on my support ticket.

I have a problem that I hope you can help me with. Several months ago, there was a problem that popped up where people would trade 100k between people with nothing else in their trade windows and it would trigger an auto-ban. I gather this was to prevent gold sellers/buyers. The problem seemed to have died down, people got back to trading large sums of money to each other without a problem, and I figured it was safe to do so again. Keep in mind, I have never been banned for this or any other practice in my time on Guild Wars. Fast forward to April 30th. Many donations were given by many members for both our guild giveaway and for Cinco de Mayo, which is being hosted by LaZy Nation for the Guild Wars community. I was transferring items back and forth between my account and my Guild Manager's main and second account to sort the items. Then I transferred 100k that had been donated, from my storage, to my account, then to his. There was nothing else in the trade window as far as I recall. Next thing I know, I go to log in to my account Thursday afternoon and my account is said to be terminated, permanently banned, for participating in the buying/selling of gold/items for real world money. I also found out that my Guild Manager's second account was put on a temporary ban, 72 hours, for the same thing.

So I'm curious. First, I committed no crime by trading items back and forth, and right now, some of the items that our guild donated for the Cinco de Mayo event are being held in limbo because of a ban for something I never did.

Second, my GM has all the items for our guild giveaway trapped on his second account, which the ban will apparently wear off. But he committed no breach against the rules either.

Third, why has this never been fixed? If we cannot trade 100k without being banned, why does it allow a 100k trade in the trade window? Why is there no warning so that players who are playing the game legitimately will not lose accounts they have worked long and #######?

I think it is not too much to ask that the bans be lifted from both our accounts. I also don't think it's too much to ask that someone look into this whole guilty until proven innocent aspect of trading gold.

Thank you very much for your time. My reference number is 080501-001596. My GM's reference number is 080501-001184. Azhure Sun Soar 18:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I would just like to update this by saying both of our accounts' bans have been lifted. I would like to extend my thanks for the swiftness on this issue. Azhure Sun Soar 19:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I can't thank support and everyone else enough for your help and timely fixing of our account bans/ temp bans. Thank you for your time, (Azhure Sun Soar's GM) --Ill Armageddon Ill 19:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Gaile. This happend also to an alliance member of mine, they had a 72 hour ban, and all the money they had on that account was confiscated. Now the ban they can deal with, but the loss of the money is the stinger. Especially when transfers of money between accounts is a routine part of Guild wars life for people. As an organiser of public events, the last thing we want is for peoples donations to be confiscated and the storage accounts banned because peoples of generosity. The Alliance member has opened a ticket and we have told him to email you with his queries, but since people cannot create money on the live server I don't see how he can ever get the money that was wrongfully taken back again. Please could you investigate this and either let people know of a change of policy, or correct the procedures to ensure this does'nt happen to more people. Shan 20:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

That sucks. — ク Eloc 貢 22:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, there, Azhure and Armageddon . I'm really glad that we got that issue sorted out that was connected to the guild exchanges. Thanks for letting me know that, and thanks for submitting support tickets right away. You'd be surprised how much we can do, and how quickly we can usually do it, once you get in touch!

Secondly, you're right, Eloc: We cannot spawn gold. I guess the best way to say this is "We can't make nothing from nothing." (Yikes, such awful grammar! :) ) If someone gets scammed, or makes an error in trading, or in some other ways ends up losing gold, we can't reverse that. We can't put back what we didn't take out. But if gold was removed in error by a Support Team member, we may be able to restore it. This process isn't possible with armor or weapons or miniatures or any other in-game items. However, if upon investigation we discover that we made a gold-buyer block in error, and if we establish that we removed gold from the account when the block was made, we may be able to rectify the gold removal when the account block is corrected. However, first it takes a support ticket (which your alliance member sent, and thank him or her for me for doing that), second it takes careful research to establish all the facts, third, it takes very clear data with no question marks or maybes, and forth, it takes a bit of extra time to accomplish all that.

I hope this is helpful information, and of course, if anyone has questions, please let me know. -- Gaile 07:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh Gail, is there something you can't do =) Biz 08:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Ideally these bans shouldn't be happening. Wouldn't it make a great deal more sense to check chatlogs before dishing out bans for random inter-guild or inter-alliance donations, or item/money transfers? 80.193.1.106 01:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but you'd then be spending so much time looking at logs manually, that the gold sellers would never get caught. -- Alaris 02:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand the question, 80.193.1.106. However, I should tell you that RMTs are very quick, very efficient, and pretty darn adaptive, too. We user a very careful list of parameters before we make any account block or ban. You can assure yourself of that by looking at how few players protest or appeal, when we are blocking well over 1,000 a week. So having used very careful monitoring devices that take into account a number of parameters -- probably two dozen or more -- we reduce the chances of a false positive in the blocks while removing a lot of RMTs. Now, it's true that we cannot totally eliminate false positives, but I don't know of any widespread system that does, even while I know we all wish that we could. But by taking fact action, we're stopping the RMTs in their tracks, quickly, expiditiously, and well.

If we then offer a quick, careful, and intensive review for any of the few player who may be caught in a false positive -- while having quickly removed hundreds in a day who are guilty of wrongdoing -- we're going a long ways towards eliminating the gold selling, the botting, the advertising spamming, and the other damaging actions that take place within the game. -- Gaile 05:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering what is the limit number of money one may trade you without giving something back? Because I'm a runner, and so people give me money without expecting any item back.. so far I haven't got any problems, but just to be sure about it.. Dutch Sunshine 06:57, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

While I understand fully what Arenanet are trying to achieve here, as a regular event organiser I find this whole issue quite unsettling. I work long and hard to farm gold during the year for the sole purpose of funding my personal addiction to 'giving things away' via events and boosting community spirits. This is how I choose to play the game, it is what entertains me most, and it is surely my business to do so. I have given away over 2 million in gold and items to players over the past 2 years from events I have organised and hosted, and I have expected/received nothing in return. I simply enjoy giving things to people, and getting people together for a bit of fun is a perfect excuse to do so.

If Arenanet have an auto-ban system in place that could interfere with myself, and other members who assist me in a casual committee for player/guild community events, from doing what we like doing and giving things away...then there will be no reason for any of us to continue to play the game. For this reason, I think it is only fair to ask Arenanet to help us understand what kinds of trades we should steer away from to avoid the 'dreaded auto ban'. For example, in an upcoming faction competition, planned to run in the next few weeks, the Bunny Crew plan to raise and give away 500k (being 250k each to 2 winning guilds). It is taking me hours to organise the event and plan everything carefully...it would upset me to find my account banned after simply delivering the prize money.

Can you please advise me what effect the auto bans will have on event hosters? I would appreciate some guidance before I find myself in trouble for being nothing but generous. --Bunny - Angel talk 16:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you can appreciate that it would be extremely counterproductive to list the parameters that we use to block RMTs. Saying, "If you make a trade in this way, you can avoid the RMT watch" would be rather like a store pointing out all their security cameras and then saying, "But there's this spot out back where if you hug the wall and pop the loose window latch, you can make a break-in just fine." :)

There's nothing I like and admire more than community-run events -- I'm a fan. We're all fans of such events. And you can believe that none of us want to put anyone to any inconvenience in connection with organizing or operating such an event. I've been thinking about the core question that you've asked, and I want to ponder further about it as well as speak with my associates on the Support Team on the issue. It's a simple question that doesn't have a ready, simple answer.

Thanks for your patience as we consider this. -- Gaile 18:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt reply Gaile, I absolutely agree it would be counter productive to start listing parameters. It's not sensible for obvious reasons. I think I'm simply in a difficult position given what I tend to get up to around Guild Wars, which is why the original discussion caught my attention. If Arenanet checked my trades for Friday the 2nd of May, for example, they'd see me hopping between LA and Kamadan personally giving away over 500k of items over the course of 4 hours to absolutely anyone who could catch and trade me (yes, I know I should find better things to do with my Friday night :P). It was an event many of us took part in, and between us all we gave away a few million worth of items to people...I can't describe how fun those sorts of things are, it leaves me smiling for days.

Thanks again for the preliminary response, I'll leave you to ponder it further. --Bunny - Angel talk 18:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I think you should feel safe to continue doing that. It's fairly unlikely that you'll be mistaken for a gold seller, and even if you are, the false positive will be fixed quickly. -- Alaris 19:01, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a very fun event, Bunny! I hope to see you and your friends in action soon! :) -- Gaile 19:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha, I just had an image in my head of someone borrowing a 100k loan from the bank and then being banned from life. XD!

forgive me for knowing this but online goldsellers make their customers trade something useless (salvage kit, blue weapon) so they wont risk a ban like this, say...I'de buy someone's r4 10-17 War Axe for 100k would that get me banned? Jonny10 09:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One trade like that shouldnt be a problem. After all, Anet would need actual proof. There may be other reasons why you did that. But if the account is constantly trading small things like salvage kits for 100k, then thats something that they'd need to intervene in. It all depends though. -- Wandering Traveler 13:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

So would this be a solution? It would look like someone really doesnt know how much things are actually worth... can't ban someone for ignorance hehe Jonny10 17:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Gaile, in response to what you said above about not creating anything from nothing, how come members at ArenaNet can't just spawn items? Like, if they made the game, shouldn't they be able to really do anything within the game since it is technically a game? — ク Eloc 貢 00:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I wondered once why Arenanet staff couldn't just create things for themselves, but then I realised how boring it would be to play a game where there was no challenge or adventure...if Arenanet staff could have everything they wanted (minipets and green bows galore Gaile!) they might not be as inspired to play the game along with everyone else. Personally I find it nicer knowing staff actually play Guild Wars themselves like the rest of the community and can therefore sympathise with the issues. --Bunny - Angel talk 18:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

You're so right, Angel. The fact is, I know the value of an Ecto because I have so few.  :D My minis are precious because I have waited so long to have them join the family. I understood when players posted about how difficult Thunderhead Keep was (in the very beginning) because I'd just been there and had been handed my... hat. ;)

ArenaNet folks are legitimate players and it really does give us a solid perspective for our game. -- Gaile 23:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) A player sent me a message saying he was concerned that he and/or his friend might be blocked for gold sales when they trade a substantial amount of gold with one another. I spoke with the Support Teams about this, and they confirmed what I had mentioned earlier. They suggested that the best way to put it might be: "Every trade is reviewed by a Support Team member, and they look at all the elements of the trade. As long as this is a legitimate transaction, you should have no issues with being blocked." -- Gaile 18:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the update Gaile. I attended a rather large community event last night in Kamadan. A guild kindly put together a Fashion Show contest with 400k of prizes to be won and it was so much fun! I really enjoyed myself, and at the prize giving I made sure to remind people giving/receiving lots of 100k to screen cap their trades "just in case". I've told my alliance the same "If in doubt, screen cap". I figure having evidence set aside makes it easier to raise a ticket with the support team if the worse happens. --Bunny - Angel talk 08:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Ingame advertising

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Should be a report option for that, rather than reporting a gold seller for spamming. 80.193.1.106 17:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I have relayed that in the past. Making the changes takes the time of a few team members, and we are currently asking folks to just hit "Spamming" as the reason. When we pull the data, we'll know how to categorize the report. Thanks a lot. -- Gaile 17:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One or two new reporting options would be nice, but I can imagine that it would require some extra database work. I'd be nice to at least edit the descriptions of the current reporting options to better describe what falls under them. Editing some text can hardly be much work... — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 11:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

It would take some work, it's true. But we're talking about it, and it's possible we can expand the list a bit in the future. I don't know any sort of timeline, but it's a definite possibility.

Editing the text would be relatively easy, I agree, and I'm going to ask for a few modifications, in the event someone could do that. For instance, instead of just Spamming, make it "Spamming and In-Game Advertising" or something of the like. -- Gaile 03:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

If we get a separate option for in-game advertising, then wouldn't it be easier for ANet to counter the RMT issue by prioritising reports in this category, rather than having to sift through hundreds of reports of silly little kids spamming swear words in local at GToB etc? 80.193.1.106 23:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Automated Guild Spamming?

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I just changed districts in GtoB, and got PM-spammmed with a guild invite as soon as I loaded. This is very similar to the way they used to spam for gold selling (thanks for clearing that up by the way!), but is instead for a guild. I used the /report feature, but is it just me or are they being a little stupid? Can't you guys just disband the guild if that gets reported? Bot-spamming for gold might be understandable, I can see them maybe making a profit on that, but guild recruiting? Ashes Of Doom 00:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting the issue using the /report feature. I don't know that we'd disband the guild -- rather doubt that, in fact. However, certainly those involved with whisper-spamming will be given a time out if they're reported and that might influence recruitment and member retention. You know, "Where's the guild leader and the two top officers?" "Oh, they're all blocked for spamming." ;) -- Gaile 18:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the response. What really struck me was the fact that this seemed to be instantaneous when I loaded the district. I had always assumed that when I was being spammed that quickly for gold selling it was being done by a bot, but maybe not. I can't see anyone using a bot to invite to a guild. Ashes Of Doom 23:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

*sigh*

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I don't suppose there is a way to get a recently deleted character back is there? Because last night I accidently deleted my monk (Yes I realize how ridiculous this must sound, with your great protective system against deletion)...I was tired, and I tried to delete my PvP character, and instead clicked on my PvE monk, instinctively typed in his name, Lord Oranos, and pressed enter before I realized what was going on >_<. I don't really expect there is a way, but I figured as the support gal, if there ever was a way, you would know. Thanx for reading this, -Warior Kronos 23:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I was like "how the hell did you manage to do THAT?" when I first began reading, but when you explain it actually makes sense. We do sometimes act on autorun - not being fully awake. As far as I know, there isn't any way of getting your character back - but I guess there should have been (24 hour reset or so). Even if the protection system against deletion is very state of the art. Even more importantly there should have been a undo sales button. I live in constant fear of accidentaly selling my Voltaic Spear :P -- Titus The Third 08:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha, I agree, but the trade thing would probably be unfeasible to incorporate to the system. I remember I accidently destroyed my Ogre-slaying knife a while back, and more for sentimental reasons was upset. About characters, I was just checking as a last hope. Perhaps making a 24 hour recovery system, only for PvE characters, only the most recent deletion, might not be too bad, but I could be completely wrong. Still it would be nice...and I'll remember not to play GW when I'm on auto-run from now on =P-Warior Kronos 17:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm so sorry to hear about what happened. :( We don't have any sort of "roll-back" feature in Guild Wars, as you know. I don't know about the complexity of such a system -- I suspect it would be very complicated to extract the data from an enormous database and essentially reconstruct a character, once deleted -- but it is something I've seen requested before. I think it would be great to add your comments to the Suggestions page for Guild Wars 2. I don't remember what month it was suggested, but it's definitely a worthwhile inclusion to those pages! -- Gaile 18:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks alot for your time, and I will add this to the suggestion page. On the bright side, of all the characters I could've lost in that tired state of mind, he was probably the best possible one that could've been deleted (I didn't play him exceptionally often, I only had one set of 15k on him, Brohn Stonehart's set, and no cash). Always look on the bright side =D. I understand how complicated this would be, and wasn't really expecting a "Sure we'll get him back by tomorrow evening" but thanks again for answering. -Warior Kronos 19:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Account Security Concerns

Hey there, Gaile. You probably know the situation about all those accounts being "stolen" during the past couple of weeks. The evergrowing number of threads on forums is alarming but we still have no real news about all this, just an answer about one case. Here are some examples:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10284431

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10288598

I've been through articles about this PlayNC-thingy but i'd like to know if anything is really planned to fix this. People are often downloading wrong content, giving a try at 3rd P Progs and stuff but this aint due to a couple uses of Texmods... One thing should have been implemented a long ago, some sort of lock. Especially since the addition of Titles.

Those, even if optional, require enormous amounts of cash and/or play time and can be entirely destroyed by deleting the character. Even worse, people are getting a lot more into this, partially due to "extras" in GW2 and the use of HoM.

Even if GW got no monthly fee, people paid for a product. What if they lose all that in-game involvement due to something out of their control? Not mentioning the PlayNC trap who got thousands of accounts, with the BMP a while ago...

As said above, deleting a character instantly erases all its data: titles, armors etc... It would probably require too much to change all this, but a character lock feature or even account based seems the best option to keep every Title/HoM safe. Adding a PERMANENT way to simply remove the delete button from an account sounds like an easy plan imo.

Maybe GW is an old game now, everyone is pointing at GW2 already, but all those players who lost their stuff wont even bother with GW2...Witchblade 10:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Client Exploit Concern

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Could i direct your attention to this thread [1]. By the sounds of it, someones account was accessed via some kind of client exploit bug. There has been an increasing number of similar incidents reported on the forums. Also, some other security concerns are raised, theres no 'x password tries' then account lockdown on the gw client to prevent bruteforce attacks. On the plaync website, once logged in its too easy to change a password for a game account, it does not send any kind of email to confirm the change, or even ask for the old password --92.235.8.13 11:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a note, there actually is a system in place to prevent brute force attacks, it's simply not as obvious as "x tries and you're locked out". Rather, there is a subtly increasing delay between subsequent failed attempts, it increases slowly enough that anyone who simply forgot their password and tried a few things wouldn't notice, but an automated program attempting to guess 10's of thousands of passwords would quickly get bogged down to the point where such brute force is infeasible. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 11:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've read the thread, and I'll see what I can learn about this. While I will need to inquire about the PlayNC security observations you've made, Aiiane's comments about Guild Wars' brute force protection are accurate. The brute-force prevention is not as obvious as "X times and you're blocked," but it's just as effective at preventing a concerted effort to try random passwords. -- Gaile 17:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Its more worrying the idea of some kind of modified game client exploit that allows the hacker to force disconnect any player and reconnect using their account, rather than the taditional access account via stolen login details --Just One More Thing 18:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand. I would imagine that if such a thing existed, we'd see a lot more reports. However, that is not to dismiss the concern, by any means. I'm actively reading that thread and have already sent one email on it, and I will be writing more and sending them out now. Thanks for keeping me in the loop on this. It's definitely a support issue and I will do my best to help with it! -- Gaile 18:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Was that purely a GW-client based bug, though, or were third party programs involved? There's always a risk with those (even popular ones), and it wouldn't be surprised if some of the most famous ones have been hijacked and subtly altered by now to be used for such a purpose. (After all, it's well known, so people are less likely to suspect something that everyone's using and that's available from multiple