User talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Support Issues/Apr - Jun 2009

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Support Issues

Contents


Remember Lots Wife

Long-Term Botter Report
→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

how many months will it take until it's banned? it's a bot goddamnit. --Cursed Angel Q.Q 16:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

it is in FA for ages.... Very disturbing, and not great for the teammates... |Cyan LightLive!| 18:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I've never seen that one (I also haven't done Aspenwood in a while), but it was reported on the botwatch page back in late December. Maybe start making duplicate reports there with date and time. --Falseprophet 18:36, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Done. I hope they ban him/her/it fast... |Cyan LightLive!| 19:04, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
According to the team, this issue was addressed just today. Thanks for your patience. -- Gaile 23:09, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Am I reading that right? Six months of botting infamy from that account finally removed permanently from Fort Aspenwood??? :D -- WarBlade 02:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)\
Wooooo! Finally anet got him! great work :D Sweet Escape 03:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
6 months of botting... wasted. -- Alaris_sig Alaris 13:39, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hi Gaile, Please extend a note of gratitude to the GMs who reviewed the evidence and made the call on this one. It evidently took some doing, but I've been watching the responses in Fort Aspenwood outposts lately and can honestly say that there are quite a large number of legitimate players who really appreciate the improvement brought about by the removal of the offending account from Guild Wars. Thanks. -- WarBlade 00:21, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

WarBlade, I'm sorry, I totally missed this note. It's really nice of you to write, and I'm glad that players noticed that...err... removal. ;) We've been discussing the whole situation at our Live Team meetings. The team is definitely sensitive to the concerns and hopes to have solutions in the future. -- Gaile 05:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Issues with sending in support ticket

Hi Gaile! I've been having some problems with the new NCsoft website. I kinda forgot my password and my secret question, so I decided to open a ticket. It stated that if my email address was not recognised when sending in the ticket, I would have to register that address. Since I did remember the email attached to my plaync account, I entered that and then send in the ticket. But it directed me to a registration page, asking me to register my email address. Weird, I thought, my address should already be in the database. I tried re registering the address, only to find out "it was already in the database". So now I can't log in and can't contact support. Help me Support team, you are my only hope! ^^

PlasticBlue 08:04, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Hay, PB, could you do me a fave? Drop me a note through the "email this user" on this page and give me your email address (and user name, if you don't mind -- NOT password, of course ;) ) in the email, so I can ask the team to start a ticket and contact you. Sound good? -- Gaile 23:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Gwen-chan camera bug

Not sure where to tell this. When in first person mode, the camera appears to look through the ground with a somewhat messed up view. Otherwise, thanks for the fun! 76.30.79.54 13:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

It's only gonna be a 24 hour bug, so it will get fixed when the gwen-chan thing reverts to normal. -- Salome 13:50, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I know. That's why I didn't bother mentioning it to main support. Maybe it can be dealt with for future mini-sized avatars. Imagine playing an Asuran in GW2, or some other yet to be known smallish race. 76.30.79.54 17:01, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
By the way Gaile, love the Gwen Chan April fools thingy. --Burning Freebies 17:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree -- it's a great prank! :) Oh, and I will let the team know about the camera for future reference. Thanks. -- Gaile 18:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Please, please, please, please, tell them to make Gwen-chan into a tonic aswell. --MageMontu 18:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm with you on that! -- Gaile 22:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Linsey said in-game they knew about the issue with the camera, but the only way to fix it would be making gwen-chan bigger, and the bigger she gets the creepier she looks, so they decided to leave it in. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 13:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaile,i need help!!!

Account Terminated for RMT

hello Dear Gaile!It said my guild wars account was terminated for using a bot or other 3rd-party program.I swear never use other programs, and I dont know what happened . Please verify carefully. thank you.why u guys sure i used an illegal third party program.i only long times online plays the game.i dont know what i do let GM think about that.im a consumer and player , never undermine the rules.Reference(090402-000175)--Black cat 03:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Dear Gaile!I swear!My network is not RMT,I did not use the 3rd-party program!--Black cat 10:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Please contact support with your appeal; I will not intercede in this issue. -- Gaile 02:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

can i get banned for...

Selling (other) game access key for Guild Wars Gold

Selling an unused Call of Duty 5 cdkey I got for in game gold? It's like reverse RMT i guess. I'm too lazy to ebay the game it so i thought i might as well sell the key for $GW. is that bannable tho? --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 04:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think you could be considered a RMT here, because you're trading an in-game item for what is, essentially, a real world commodity. Or vice versa. :) I have a meeting with our Legal Counsel tomorrow, and I could ask him, but everything in my mind points to this being disallowed, just as selling a GW Buddy Key is strictly disallowed. -- Gaile 04:52, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
yeah i just didn't know if it was vice versa since it's not even a gw key. i just hate dealing with ebay =\ maybe i'll craigslist it. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 04:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
It's an odd one as it depends on if the cd key can be considered to be a real world commodity or a virtual commodity. As if its the latter you are trading one virtual commodity for another virtual commodity, however that being said its also for a different game so that brings in more considerations. Personally I would be very cautious about this as I think it could quite easily be bannable. -- Salome 21:09, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I know people who offer to trade Guild Wars accounts for [XYZ Game] or [ABC other-game commodity] are considered in breach of the User Agreement, so I think this would be a no-no. I completely forgot to ask during the meeting, and I do apologize. I'll check and post an answer as soon as I hear back. -- Gaile 03:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I would say this is just a item which is buyed ingame for ingame money but its a real life product which makes that it is real life money based product which makes it no legal to buy it. For example this would allow people to buy reallife games on ebay so that they can trade it for ingame gold. And thats kind of the same as just buying reallife money. But then throw first buying a game and then trading this game for the Item. 145.53.242.142 06:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Basic rule: if real money or goods are involved, it's not allowed. Easy to remember. 145.94.74.23 05:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Meh, so it is actually bannable when I give treats to my friends who don't GW anymore to give me their accounts. Pika Fan 07:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Quick Question...

What telephone number should I use?

I'm makeing an NCSoft Master acount, so I can buy the bonus mission pack. Problem is, I don't have a phone number. What do I put, my Mom's? (555)-555-5555?--Unendingfear 14:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

My guess would be any number they could contact you at, should the need arise. So something like a home phone or a parents cell phone (with their permission) should work. -- Wandering Traveler 15:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Please feel free to use a telephone number at which you could be contacted (even with a relayed message through a relative) in the event that there was such a need, just as WT said. (It's very seldom needed, but it's something they need to have; in fact a credit card purchase may actually require that info, I'm not sure.)
And after dealing with lost account issues for a few folks, I'd recommend that you use one that you can remember if, some time down the road, you need help from Support. A phone number isn't "proof of ownership," but it's one point of data that may help establish that an account does indeed belong to the person contacting us. Oh, and I'd also add, using fake information is really bad. I'm working with a guy this week who doesn't have access keys, can't remember the account name, forgot the password, and just doesn't recall much critical info about the account itself, either. Basically, "I had a Guild Wars account, don't know anything about it, can you find it for me?" (Answer: We'd like to, but probably not. :( )
So if I can use this as a soap box: Always use real information with signing up for NCsoft and Guild Wars accounts. The information is kept confidential, and it's to your best interests to have real info associated with your account! :) -- Gaile 01:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaile please help me

Account Terminated for RMT

Hi dear Gaile,sorry to distrub you,because my guild wars account was blocked for an account issue,I sent many letters to GM but haven't response,my friend said u can help me.The day before my account blocked ,it was very lag and I have reboot my modem three or four more times. My IP have changed cause of that.Because network operator provide the dynamic IP address here.So my IP address variation perhaps made my account suspect.Maybe GM thought I was sold my account.Perhaps there were some Gold-Sellers and who sell the gold or his account for real-money,but I swear it was not my case.I never want to sell my valuable account.So I promise you dear Gaile,please help me.Thank you very very very much. Reference(090328-000530)--Fanglei613 12:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Please contact support with your appeal; I will not intercede in this issue. -- Gaile 02:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Account blocked

Dear, loved and wonderfull Gaile, I am innocent. I swear I never intended to do anything bad when I connected to Billy Joe Mac Diamond' H@XxORs site ! I must leave now cause my computer is bloated with malwares but plllleeease, unblock my account ! I swear I will stop using third party programms on that account. You are beautifull and your favorite color is also my favorite color. YsEr@N ( my other name is Invincible Black Shadowz Of The Death That Kill 'til you'r Dead 2000 XXX plus, SF ftw )- 81.251.148.200 12:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

My spidey sense is tingling! I'm sensing someone is taking the mickey. -- Salome 12:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
I have a problem when someone says "I never intended to do anything bad when I connected to a hack site". The sole reason to go to a hack site is to find a way to cheat. Sugar coating it with sweet talk is just insulting Gaile's intelligence. If I were you, I would resign myself to kissing that account goodbye. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 12:21, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
If it wasnt a joke I would not forget to tell him to stop posting on gaile page for no reason. YsEr@..err..i mean Yseron - 81.251.148.200 12:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Begging only works if you stand at the right intersection at the right time, when gullible rich people drive by. Then you can go home and not have to work for the rest of the day. When was the last time some molester was let out of jail just because he swore he'll never do it again and that he didn't intend anything bad to that kid in the first place? What's done is done. Begging in GW or on the wiki never gets you anything more than annoyed ST*U's. except offers to cyber for ectos if you're a female ele Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 18:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Guys, your intellect is scaring me there. You understood that my account have never been blocked, did you ? Yseron - 86.209.68.7 18:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Then why is the topic titles "Account blocked" and you're begging them to "plllleeease" unblock it? Your writing skills are scaring me there. O_o Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:17, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Because the original poster is not Yseron and the post is (rather obviously...) a joke? ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 21:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, my bad, then. I guess I haven't been here long enough to see through such "obvious" jokes. :/ I have no clue who Yseron is, and I've come across plenty of people who actually would make posts like these in all seriousness. ^_^ Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 04:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
ROFL, I was wondering why you were all answering seriously. It's clearly a parody of the number of requests which keep turning up on Gailes page, with people asking for their accounts to be saved depite them being numpties and breaking a whole host of rulesm thus why I said someone is taking the mickey. Guys at times, humour > serious post. -- Salome 12:56, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Lol... I'm also non-native to English, and have no clue what "taking the mickey" means. :P Wyn also seemed quite serious there. Hate it when I miss culturally-dependent jokes. ^_^ Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 17:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a native english speaker and I have no idea what "taking the mickey" means, either :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 18:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh bugger is "taking the mickey" another british slang term? Please see the article on wikipedia which can be found here -- Salome 21:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Please save my guildwars account

→ moved from User talk:Hmhjyf

Dear Gaile,I am sorry to distrub you but I need your help for my guildwars account. It has been banned with the reason that i have used the illegale third party program. I have sent serveral letters to GM but the responses were always the same. I have never used this kind of program and before the termination of my account, I have just played UW SC run with other players for a whole day because I want to learn more about UW SC and different area. I think perhaps that's the reason which make my account suspect. Could you help to get my account back? My reference is #090324-000332 and my account is <removed> thank you in advance --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Hmhjyf (talk).

Please contact support with your appeal; I will not intercede in this issue. -- Gaile 02:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Wee suggestion

Hello Gaile, after reading through this page, their seems to be a rather disturbing trend emerging, in that increasingly people seem to be thinking that they can circumvent supports decisions by going directly to you on your talk page and requesting you look into it. Now although I understand that you are the kinda person who likes to help people, I can also see that this could get out of hand quite quickly for you with your page beig inundated by people who want their bans lifted. Now although it is very nice of you to be going out of your way to help people in this manner and if you are happy to do so, thats great too, however I would respectfully suggest that maybe you should think about asking people to stop posting appeals on your page, as your work load if is already big enough, without people constantly pestering you on the wiki to lift bans after support has told them no repeatedly. Maybe adapt your welcome message to include a wee bit of blurb directing people with appeal concerns to request the matter be elevated via support following the correct line of management. -- Salome 13:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

71 Hour Ban, First Offense-- Is this normal?

I was temporarily suspended for spamming on the trade channel today. This was not a mistake at all. I've played Guild Wars off and on with a few friends for a long while, but I've never really used the trade channel much (or even said much in general chats for that matter). Today, I decided to sell an extra minipet I had and went kind of crazy with posting. It was my mistake; I stupidly tried to keep up with the fast moving chat.

My suspension, though, is for 71 hours. I was reading elsewhere that suspensions vary, with only a few hours for spam. Is 71 hours normal for a first offense (especially for someone who really only uses guild chats)?

I don't want my ban to be lifted, nor am I begging for it to be shortened. I accept that I made a mistake (a mistake that I'll be sure to not make again after this). I'm just curious. --LetoAtreides 03:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

What exactly were you spamming? If you were not spamming messages related to trade, then you probably deserved it. The trade channel is for trade, everything else goes in local.72.71.218.222 03:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I was posting two things (forgot about the bow). The first said "WTS Mini Pet | Whiptail Devourer (Unded) |." The other said pretty much the same thing about the bow. I think I posted in local a few times to see, but nowhere near a lot. I'm not arguing the suspension. Just wondering out of curiousity if 71 hours is the norm for a first offense. --LetoAtreides 03:34, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
You spammed local? that's why.96.233.2.149 01:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The article on bans here says that "The length of a ban is based on the severity of the the offense, and the past behavior of a player. As an example: A farming bot would be blocked forever, while a ban for spamming in towns (namely trade spam in local chat) would only be a few hours." Three days seems to be more than a few hours. --LetoAtreides 04:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, LetoAtreides, that is the normal period of suspension for a first-time block, or for a block after all other account marks have expired. In the initial months after release of Guild Wars (Prophecies), Support sometimes placed a shorter block, one that lasted 24 hours. But what we learned was that a lot of people were not even noticing they had been blocked at all, and the intention of a block is to impose a consequence that also serves as a warning about unacceptable behavior. So yes, the block duration that you mention would be standard for the first mark. I might suggest that the wording in the article on spamming should be amended accordingly. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. -- Gaile 06:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I've corrected the ban article based on your statement. -- Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
No, that's all. Thanks for your help. That article kind of threw me off.--LetoAtreides 14:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I substantially rewrote the article on bans several days ago, but I guess I forgot to mention that here. :) I hope the updated article is helpful. -- Gaile 02:25, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Hang in there

Wow, I've been reading through earlier posts in this page, it's like "I did someth wrong and was banned, but i dont want to be banned, do someth or i'll say you suck, this game sucks and...". Sheesh. Hang in there! There are nice people in the world who can actually understand that there are rules, and there are consequences, and the people in charge of keeping them are not evil monsters from outer space :) 189.33.71.178 19:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. You made me smile. :) -- Gaile 02:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaile, might I ask something

Terminated Account Question
→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Can you please look into my ticket 090407-000166, I just filed it today. I logged in to find I have been perma-banned 045. I believe this is in error. 000.00.00.00 02:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

As I say above and on my User Page under What's a Support Liaison?, I am not the first route of appeal for any player. In fact quite honestly, I'm generally not a route of appeal at all. For the most part, I get involved after Support has asked me to do so, or in the rare case where something needs another review as pointed out by the player or for larger policy reviews. It appears you posted this instantly upon filing a ticket, and the team has not even had a chance to respond to you. Please allow this issue to move through the process, as intended. -- Gaile 02:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
My apologises. 000.00.00.00 02:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Not a problem. When someone is stressed -- and I know an account block or ban is stressful -- it's natural to reach out for help. I will be happy to offer help if it's necessary. But I have confidence that the team can assist you, and it's best to have them do so. Thanks for understanding. -- Gaile 03:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I found out what went wrong, there was a recent discussion I looked over on your page in regards to running two versions of Guild Wars at the same time. I explained the situation in my email (though I really upset, more than one probably should in this situation) could you/someone try to make the gray area with third party programs a lot more defined. I used a GWx2 ( based on a comment you made in the topic about running two versions at the same time) under the impression it was as long as it didn't give an advantage "Well, if it doesn't give an advantage in gameplay, the general rule has been you'd not have a mark placed on your account for doing so. Just keep in mind that there are risks associated with it and watch for fourth-party "add ins" (like keyloggers) on your third-party program."
Clearly, I must have used it in a manner that gave me an advantage, I don't believe I have but that's what happens when you base actions on gray area statements (no, that's not a dig at Gaile Gray). The rules regardless of what we read on the wiki or forums say "You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service". I hope that other people who took part in the conversation I only watched take not that it can get you in trouble by using it.
I accept that I used a program, I did it believing I wasn't doing anything to put myself at an advantage and I accept the outcome. I feel really crap right now, that was almost 2 years and so many hours. You can read what I sent to them, Gaile, I especially mean my closing paragraph: this is not a pleasant experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.
Thanks for your time. 000.00.00.00 23:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Errr... I hope their is more to this than that, as almost everyone I know has used GWx2 at some point or another. I don't see how necessitating people to log onto multiple machines is in anyway different from logging onto multiple accounts on one machine. I really do think this needs clarified properly so I can inform my allaince, as currently people have been using gwx2 under the belief that its a handy tool which gives them no advantage as all it does is allows you to access 2 accounts at once. Which as you own 2 accounts, is your right to do so. All it changes is on what machine you are doing this. -- Salome 23:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
As a general rule, we do not block for the use of that program. We do block for botting. I will research this more fully tomorrow, but early research does not show this to be a block for playing two accounts, but for playing two accounts in an exploitative manner. Again, I won't say that is the cause until I know more. -- Gaile 23:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I appreciate the effort in looking into this, it is appreciated regardless of the outcome. 000.00.00.00 23:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I am happy to try to help, but I will move this over to the Support Issues page, where it more properly belongs. Discussion can continue there, of course. -- Gaile 01:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Dear Gaile!My computer also has GWx2!It said my guild wars account was terminated for using a bot or other 3rd-party program.I swear never use other programs, and I dont know what happened .i only long times online plays the game.Reference#(090402-000175),My apologises. Disturb you!!!:(--Black cat 06:53, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
No, Black Cat, your computer runs a bot. I have seen the proof. Do not ask me to assist you again. -- Gaile 07:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Just popping in to say gl 0. You seem like a cool guy from Wiki, know you wouldn't bot. Hope you get this sorted out! :) DarkNecrid 08:18, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Wow, this is very unfortunate, I hope this gets sorted out. I know someone who uses 2 accounts to 600/smite farm, is that "legal?" He controls both account by himself, no bots. If not, I'd like to know so I can tell him to stop before he loses his account, he plays with both of his kids and is a very helpful and nice player, and it would really suck if he got banned... Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 08:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
He could achieve the same thing using a hero, except for the fact that he gets twice the drops if he uses a secondary account. And that sounds like an advantage to me...145.94.74.23 13:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I hope you get unbanned =)--Unendingfear 16:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
No, I believe I worked out what I did wrong. >.< Funnily enough Support didn't actually give me a straight answer as to what I did wrong exactly just that I did something wrong: absolutely no explaination or justification just "you used an illegal third party program" we went through our processes etc and so on but not actually saying what I did (where or how etc), which is weird, but I believe I know what I did to cause this but I do find the whole thing extremely frustating. I know I got some people up in arms over this. I apologise to all for that.
I do wish Support actually came out and said "look, you've done this wrong" and stated what exactly I wouldn't have gone "What?!?!?!?!". They still haven't. Also, I don't think it's worth a perma-ban, but according to the last email I got it's justified. [shrugs]
[sighs] What a mess. I could go into but I kick myself for being a dork, I should have known better. Oh, well, it's only a game. Good luck people. ^_^ Nice knowing ye' all ^_^ 000.00.00.00 17:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
What did you do?--Unendingfear 17:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
drunk bot maybe? -- Salome 18:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
A bot? Hell no, every mouse click, button press used on my account was used under my own power, I take great pride in any instance anyone thought/thinks I was a bot (though never been accused of it, but still ^_^ ) but have friends comment on my ability to repeat trivial ingame tasks with machine-like effiency (though I'm especially critical of myself, especially on farming runs, when I have to repeat steps that usually involve one run through more than once >.< It irritates me greatly.). OOO is good at repeating patterns ^_^. I like to work with effiency.
Anywooo, I've emailed Support back to get the hard word on what the actual ban is for beyond what I already know (oddly enough I've gotten more as to a reason from Gaile which actually made the gears in my head click over) than Support thus far. 000.00.00.00 19:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
It would be nice if we could get some clarification on the gray areas when it comes to something like GWX2. I know of many people, myself included who use it, based on the premise that Gaile stated something along the lines of 'if it doesn't give you an advantage, then its probably ok'. This also raises interesting questions regarding two copies of GW running on two separate machines and whether or not policy would differ between that and GWX2.--118.90.27.74 19:53, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
That is a good question. The friend that I mentioned above uses 2 accounts on 2 different machines, and controls them both when farming. Technically, I don't see anything specifically against the rules there, because no software other that GW is involved, but would be nice to know for sure. I've also used my mule acct when I needed to run one of my new characters through the beginning of Prophecies to LA so I can get heroes first. Is that allowed? Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 20:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Ok, my ban got lifted. There are several people I want to kiss right now, not in a weird way obviously... O.o stop looking at me like that. Anywoooooooo (lets move away from that as fast as we can), the issue with me is that I was exhibiting bot-like behaviour (believe I was using a bot-program to farm because that's the only thing I've been doing for the last few days), I would just like to repeat I have never used a bot, nor will ever. But, now I'm interested with this whole GWx2 or just running two accounts on two computers, but that's for another topic I believe. But for the moment [runs out of room] WOOOOTTT!!!!!! 000.00.00.00 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm really glad that it sorted out for you. :)
If you feel we should have a discussion about multi-use, we can sure do that, but that isn't what raised the flags. Good heavens, I play two accounts on two computers all the time -- how else am I supposed to keep my 4289 mule tidy? Our policy about multiple accounts has not changed. I'd say you just need to "take a break" as the game nags gently suggests. :D -- Gaile 03:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Good to hear you got your account back 0. Also good to know that the issue wasn't GWX2 related. The only answer I am really curious about is the one that Kali and the 145 IP mentioned above. I would imagine you would never condone this, but is it against the rules to use a program like GWX2 to 600/smite, effectively gaining double the loot? And how about using a second account via GWX2 to use 6 heroes? Thanks in advance for any answer you are able to provide Gaile.--118.90.27.74 07:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad it sorted out too, obviously ^_^ [bounces up and down in his chair]. Though, I never used a bot when the flags went up, all that recent activity was all me, but I'm iffy about the whole GWx2 thing, multiple accounts thing being used, even multiple accounts on two pcs. Got a second pc that could be used for my second account, and just got my third account tonight [again bounces up and down "Woot for storage!"], but I do like GWx2 for the space it saves etc and so on. Is it possible if we could get some rules as to what's aloud and not aloud when it comes to GWx2 and with one user using two accounts on two computers, the only differences is one setup has two machines yet can still function in the same capacity. 3rd programs are not aloud according to the rules but we're got the word that GWx2 is tolerable within reason. I'd myself love to know what can or can't be done in a multi-pc or Gwx2 situation.
I hope that made sense, I actually feel quite sick right now and not sure if I'm making sense 000.00.00.00 07:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Using 2 GW Accounts at Once

I decided to start a new topic based on the previous and summarize the questions a bit. I tried to be as specific as possible, and the questions are basically "Will I get banned for this, or no?"

  1. Is it ok to use GWx2 to open 2 GW accounts and use both in the same instance for farming, instead of recruiting heroes and missing out on the loot?
  2. Is it ok to use 2 separate machines with 2 GW accounts running, both owned and controlled by you, for farming in order to get loot for both characters, instead of losing half of it to heroes?
  3. Is it ok to use GWx2 to open 2 GW accounts, borrow 3 heroes from the second account, for a total of 6 heroes, and make the second character leave, so you are alone in the zone with 6 heroes? (By extension, is this ok if a friend substitutes the 2nd account and lets you borrow his heroes and leaves?)
  4. Is it ok to use 2 separate machines for any "outdoors" activities where the second account is not used actively, and is "afk" or leaves the instance, such as for running the second character places, or using his heroes and having him leave the area so the heroes follow you?
  5. Is it ok to use GWx2 to open 2 GW accounts for any kind of farming or playing activity outside of towns, with you controlling both accounts?
  6. Is it ok to use 2 separate accounts (GWx2 or on separate machines) with one acting as a "gate monkey?"
  7. Is it ok to uwe GWx2 to simply transfer things between accounts (muling)?
  8. Is it ok to use 2 separate machines to simply transfer things between accounts (muling)?
  • None of the above assumes use of any kind of software other than Guild Wars and/or GWx2 to play, so no bots of any kind.

I think in these 8 questions I covered everything previously asked, and then some. Feel free to add to the bottom of the list if it's a question related to GWx2 or opening 2 accounts on different machines. I know what has been said about "gaining in-game advantage" etc, but sometimes the areas are a little "fuzzy" and it would be nice if you could look at each question and answer it, to let us know for sure. In general, all of the above is "legal" if the accounts are owned and controlled by different people (in the case of 2 machines), but what about the owner being the same person, and what if he is using one machine instead of 2? Thanks in advance. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the excellent breakdown of questions related to the use of dual-account systems or programs such as GWx2. I can tell you that the 8th question, regarding using two separate machines for muling between separate accounts is definite allowed. I do it personally and I asked years ago about its permissability, so there's no question in my mind it's ok. As for each of the other questions, I must get an official answer for you.
I hope that we will be able to shed some light on this very soon. I want to interject that I know the team is working very hard on the April build, and that means that they may not feel that it's possible to answer these questions until after that build is released. I hope that we'll have an answer before that date, but due to time constraints and focus, we may need to wait until afterward the build. -- Gaile 21:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I hope you not only look at GWx2 but also alternative methods like killing the mutant yourself with a enhanced task manager + that you clearly state what is allowed. I also hope that you realize that when I go on the internet with 2 pc's they both got the same IP address. Just like when I dual-account to trade between my mules. 80.200.86.253 14:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
My pc's don't have the same IP, the last digit always varies. And take your time, Gaile, I'll be curious to read it once it's answered. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 17:07, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm so looking forward to reading the official word on this. 000.00.00.00 02:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I too would like an answer as I would like to be sure using this program is totally legit 04:25:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
There are various other ways to use 2 accounts or more on a PC without this GWx2 Thing aswell.TalkWild 05:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
This topic is starting to become a burning question on the GW Auctions (thankfully now an official GW Fansite) website as clearly many people have mutiple acccounts and are very worried that their use of 2 (or even more) Accounts is legitimate. -- Bearz talk 16:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Any word on this yet? 000.00.00.00 22:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh, Triple Oh, I'm sorry, nothing yet. The Live Team is super busy with the April build, but I will ask again after that date, and I will try to get all those answers for you. Thanks for your patience! -- Gaile 06:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Triple Oh? hehehe 000.00.00.00 23:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Also looking forward to the answers. Because all I ever tried to do is nr.8 because I know thats not against ze rules :).Qaletaqa 23:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I have resubmitted my request for official responses and hope to have something soon. I am sorry that we were unable to answer these earlier but now that you've seen the anniversary update, I'm sure you understand how busy everyone has been. -- Gaile 02:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Not to bug u, but I'm really curious about this and was wondering if there's any news after a couple weeks. Thanks!--adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 10:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) So... how you doing? How's the weather? It's raining here, not very good for my washing. Any news on this? Woo-hoo, I just got mail about something I don't want. ^_^ This is still a matter of huge discussion within my Guild Wars circle, not to bug you but if you can poke the answer givers in the arm for us that'd be sweet. or in a more extreme manner I can do a recording for a repeating sound sequence of people going: "But-but-but-but-but-but-but-but-owwwwwwwww" 000.00.00.00 21:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

*bump* --Shadowphoenix 18:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
How can you bump something that dosen't move? ^_^ --Star Weaver 19:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I bump into non moving objects all the time, really not hard. // HeavenMonkey Image:User HeavenMonkey signature.png 14:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Here is the general answer: We do not support the use of third-party programs for Guild Wars. This includes programs that allow a player to simultaneously play multiple Guild Wars accounts on a single computer. However, we do not take action against those who do so as long as they do not engage in cheats, exploits, or other breaches of the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct. Keep in mind that the use of third-party programs is strongly discouraged and we cannot offer support if you develop problems as a result of their use.

However, I know that you have a set of specific questions, and I've pinged the Live Team again to see if they can review the proposed answers, after which I can give them to you. Please accept my apologies for the delay in getting you the info -- everyone is super busy and it's taking longer than we would like! -- Gaile 21:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad we're starting to get some kind of answer on this. I've been looking into doing more research on pet evolution for the wiki, but it requires me to be on two accounts simultaniously. Since I have access to only one computer, I've been waiting until we get the word back on GWx2. I just don't want to risk getting my accounts banned simply for trying to do some pet research. Blood Red Giant 21:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm a little confused, maybe it's all the legal text I just read that, I can honestly say, I read it as if someone was talking in one incredible long sentence, moving from topic to topic, it was really quite hyponitic. ( ^_^ )
The thing that gets me is I would say GWx2 breaches only paragraph 9 of the Rules of Conduct and maybe rule 18: "9.You may not modify any part of the Guild Wars Client, Server, or any part of the official Guild Wars websites.", but then again I'm not sure how GWx2 works. GWx2 doesn't expliot the game as defined in the Rules of Conduct, rule 22 doesn't seem to fit with GWx2 either as it doesn't "automate gameplay functions" it allows for multiple instances.
There's not much that, as far as I can see, that stops the player from playing two accounts at the same time with two computers (I mean, there's absolutely nothing in the rules that I can see that even remotely says you can't) and the only thing that stops say GWx2 is Rule 9 of the Rules of Conduct, but if the Guild Wars client isn't modified then that wouldn't apply. (on second thought 21 might not sure)
Say, going 600/Smite you not really cheating or exploiting anything, you're still doing all the work to get all the reward [shrugs]. I mean, there's nothing in there that says you can't use two computers to do something like that, you just have own/hold the license to use your account.
Really, I'm probably talking out of the left side of my head, legal text really does my head in this early in the morning >.< ^_^ 000.00.00.00 22:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Account ban just before event weekend

Hi Gaile. Just received a code 045 telling me my account has been permanently banned for botting or use of a third party programme. I didn't use a bot or a third party programme. I opened a lot of chests today because I'm working on Treasure Hunter title. I opened more than usual today as this weekend was coming up and motivated me to make as much progress on this title this weekend as I could, especially as I wasn't working today. Support ticket reference: 090409-001940. Really, really want this nightmare resolved as soon as possible. :( Also reference: 090406-000484 I've now been told "in this case the incident was witnessed by a games moderator, who can confirm a third-party program was being used. Due to this we will not be reversing the decision as we feel that this was a fair judgment in this case." I don't understand this as I wasn't using a third party program so I don't see how anyone can confirm I was. I kept talking to Kilroy to go into the dungeon, ran to the chest, opened it, picked up my loot and resigned. That's it. Guess anyone else thinking of using that dungeon to work on Treasure Hunter needs to watch out. :(Pandora Mac 21:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I have not seen such a comment before, and that indicates that the team feels there is little room to doubt the use of such a program. I respect what you have said about not using third party programs and about abiding by the rules so carefully. So I truly do not mean to argue with you, or dispute what you've said. But support has access to a lot of data, and in reviewing that data, there's a relatively lengthy period during which it appears you were not present, were not personally making chest runs, but appear, in fact, to have been using a bot program of some sort to do so. I am not making a judgment, I am merely passing along how it appears.
If you have information that would shed more light on the matter, you are welcome to send that to Support or comment here. -- Gaile 00:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't think Mac would know HOW to use 3rd party programs lol. But it is heart breaking for us - a LOT of us - in her current Guild and Clan to see her so lost about this. Mac, as a long time and very respected member of DVDF alliance and member of the Angel Sharks Guild, has many people supporting her and hoping this problem is resolved as soon as possible. I just wish that "Support" would be more precise in their correspondence with players - instead of the guessing game over "what do they think I did to warrant a ban?" - it would help people in Mac's position try to provide the real explanation instead of having to splatter gun Support with imagined scenario explanations. I hope this is resolved positively for Mac - we miss her!! --Friday 18:09, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, has aNet identified any non-bot applications that could in some way impact their bot detection or interfere with their monitoring? I'm wondering because I run a lot of background applications - iTunes, Trillian, Amazon download client, Eve Online (I mine in Eve while playing GW somewhat often), Media Center, Premiere, video transcoding software and several Java clients used for work related things - while playing and don't want this sort of thing to happen to me. Pkohler01 18:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
If there is any player who does not deserve to be banned, it would be Mac. Ever friendly and respectful to rules, she does not use third party programs. If applying such a severe punishment, the support team should at least give an *extensive* explanation. It doesn't go to tell someone : "hey your account has been banned for using a TPP or a bot" without including any proof. It's a unilateral decision and the innocent victim, which Mac is, is left in the dark about what she is supposedly to be having done wrong. Looks a lot like a death sentence without a trial... Gaile, I sure do hope you will be looking into this. Greetz. Mia April, 15 2009
"I kept talking to Kilroy to go into the dungeon, ran to the chest, opened it, picked up my loot and resigned. That's it. Guess anyone else thinking of using that dungeon to work on Treasure Hunter needs to watch out"... Out of curiosity, how many hours was spent doing this repeditive action? I've heard another story of a player who went 24+ hrs straight of doing this (or a similar action on another chest) and he also claimed not to use a bot. I can neither confirm or deny either case, jsut curious 192.203.160.241 15:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaile, I've never posted here before so please correct me if I've not done it properly. I am the current Angel Sharks Guild Leader, of which, Mac has been an upstanding member for many years now. The majority of us have known her and played with her over the duration of that time, and we stand behind her in that she doesn't, nor ever has been a bot, or used any such bot program. Mac has obtained and gone through so many titles on her characters over the years, through hard work, effort, and with the assistance of her friends. I sent you a message privately about this on GWO when it happened, but I don't think you ever read it. When this happened, she was talking to all of us, we even have screenshots of this to back it up. She even zoned to our guild hall, moments before to trade some items. Treasure and Wisdom was some of the last titles she had to accomplish, and as such over the course of the month she'd been running chests a couple hours a day for a daily quota. With 10,000 chests to open I hardly think a daily quota of running a few hours a day, equaling, 30+ chests is a bad thing. I hardly think that warrents a banning, and as such I'd like to know what prerequisits there are in determining a regular player is a bot. Is it from not saying anything while playing? Is it from rezoning over the course of an hour or so? Is it using the resign macro? All of these things do not prove that Mac used a bot. We are a smaller sized, international guild so there are often many hours where individuals wouldn't of been online or busy, therefore Mac wouldn't of been chatting, and it would of been in that timeframe where a good bit of her chest running would of been done, because she'd have some free time. We are all greatly upset with what has happened to her, and we very much hope our dear friend will return. She is no more a bot than you are Gaile. A huge mistake has been made on the part of support and I am extremely disappointed in this company.Aranel Selari 16:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Seconded. Mac is a valued guild member and I trusted friend. She says she didn't use a bot, so I believe her. I don't think she'd know HOW to, I know I don't. There is a huge difference between exhibiting behaviour similar to that of a bot through farming, and actually installing third party software to do it for you. I would have expected a permanent ban on anyone if they had indeed cheated. But I'd also have expected that it would have been demonstrated beyond doubt that this was the case, not just assumed that third party software had been used "because it looks like it". Is that what has happened? In my opinion, such a dedicated and supportive long term player deserves more explanation than she appears to have received. Mac's guild, a guild made up of long term dedicated players is heart-broken. I'm personally completely demoralised.(Aeryen 17:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC))


It's cool that y'all are coming to the defense of your friend, but don't you think it is slightly wrong to give preferential treatment to someone, in the eyes of the law, just because you think they are a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything? The rules of the game ought to apply equally to everyone, no matter who they are, what their standing in the community is, if they are popular or not, how much fame they have, etc etc. Otherwise you end up with situations like the (alleged) preferential treatment of Rawr. The question is whether or not this person broke the rules, not if they are "a valued guild member and a trusted friend". Vili >8< User talk:Vili 22:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

It could be a mistake...there was a person banned for botting due to using heroes. I'm sorry to say, but support can make mistakes. Normally a bot will complain on Gaile's page, but they go away the moment Gaile posts the facts, but this, with people really concerned about a guildie, with so many people coming to this person's defense, I think there should be some solid investigating, just in case.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 22:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Support's decision, one way or another. Support seems very decided in this case; yet there have been some interesting facts posted that would seem to exonerate the "victim". Nevertheless, it just saddens me that not everyone wrongly banned can have this much of a defense. If all it takes to re-open an investigation is much noise and ado, that speaks poorly of the "stewards of the commnuity", who ought to be equally accomodating to those with fan clubs and those without. That is the nature of fair and impartial justice, is it not? Vili >8< User talk:Vili 23:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Its like petitioning...either you can be agressive yourself, or people can fight for you. Noise and much ado are the best ways to attempt to fight a situation like this--especially if its wrong. In most cases, the guilty aren't so vocal. Just like with Adrin and Shard, when they're wrong, I don't fight on their behalf as I do when I feel its unjustified. And I wouldn't call them stewards exactly, but I love them both.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 23:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
First -- let's clear up a several errors. Noise and aggression truly are never the right way to go about an appeal. Experience shows that the guilty are usually as vocal, if not more so, than the innocent. The "squeaky wheel gets the grease" doesn't apply here, and there's absolutely no reason for unpleasantness. Support doesn't gauge whether to ban someone -- or whether to uphold a ban -- based on a player's friends, guild, longevity, gender, age, national origin, or any other factor other than what appears to be the right and proper answer for that individual case. And each case is individual. To the best of their ability, and after careful review, the team makes a decision -- often consulting with several team members -- about each individual block, ban, appeal, and so forth.
Secondly -- Mac: The team continues to review this issue; we'll have more to share with you in the near future, perhaps as soon as tomorrow. I am sorry for the delay, but really, the delay means that extra levels of research are being done to try very hard to disconnect the appearance of botting from the data that was retrieved on the account. (I hope that makes sense, and thank you for your patience. :) ) -- Gaile 00:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps I didn't choose my words as well as I should have Gaile. I did not mean "noise" as in angry, threatening, violent--I meant it as in persistant to follow up with the situation, agressive as in not folding to the first response you recieve on the issue. I meant it as in contesting something that person feels they are innocent of.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 00:43, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough, I understand what you've said, and I appreciate the details. At some point, though, it's pointless to argue, and a decision truly is final, after a lot of careful review. I don't think we're there yet with this issue, but sometimes... you know... people carry on for months, and the answer won't change. -- Gaile 04:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Here's a question that it might be prudent to consider. How will banned accounts interact with Guild Wars 2? In other words, if Pandora Mac's permanent ban stands, and she chooses to play Guild Wars 2, will her account and Hall of Monuments register at all? This extends to anyone who (rightly or wrongly) receives a permanent ban on an account with Eye of the North yet chooses to play Guild Wars 2. Felix Omni 15:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Pandora Mac -- Have you gotten any word on this in the last several hours? :) -- Gaile 00:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Gaile for looking into this. Thank you to my friends that supported me. Thank you to support for reviewing the case and unblocking me!

I took a break from anything GW related for a few days as I was quite down about all of this and spending a lot of time with this stuff going around my head - even went back to the gym! Checked my email today and I'm unblocked. I've emailed support saying thank you and continuing to insist I didn't break the rules. I'm I do appreciate the rules and what the people behind the rules are trying to achieve. I like that the people behind GW are trying to tackle bots etc.
I will be varying my play style a bit more and not overdosing on GW each time the school holidays hit and I'm released from work (<-- teacher *runs and hides*) so that it's more obvious I'm a person (*cough* GW addict *cough*) and not anything else. Treasure title will be much slower this way but it's WAY better than no GW. Pandora Mac 14:07, 19 April 2009 (UTC) (p.s. apologies for too many words but I am SO relieved and glad to be back - plus, like all teachers, I talk too much)

Thank you to Support and to Gaile. We are so happy to have Mac back "in the land of the GW living". Heartfelt thanks to those who went to all the work and trouble of reviewing this case - we know how heavy your workload is and do appreciate the extra effort taken. --Friday 14:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
It is a bit ironic that with all the emphasis the game places on titles lately, when somebody really goes for it they get blocked for being too much like a machine. :) Biscuits Image:User Biscuits sig.png 14:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you to Support and to Gaile and welcome back Mac! My faith is restored. Thank you to all the people that took the time and effort to look into this - its much appreciated (Aeryen 17:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC))
Chapeau! I've not commented here before because I didn't think I had much to add, but as one of Mac's former guildies I've firmly believed in her innocence the whole way- she's one of very few people in GW I'd believe instantly if they said they were unfairly banned. So I've watched this closely and I'm glad everything turned out alright. Just adding to the chorus of thank-yous here for looking into this and setting right a grievous wrong. :) -- Elv 17:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
It's great that Pandora Mac was unbanned. I would still appreciate an answer to my question about banned accounts interacting with GW2, though- I think there are a good many cases still where it could matter. Felix Omni 19:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you to both Gaile in investigating this issue and Support for unbanning Mac. I know that you must put up with so much nonsense on a daily basis, but I am truly appreciative that you could be of such assistance. :-) Aranel Selari 14:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm super happy that this sorted out. Things like this make my week. :D And I'm grateful to you all for having such a positive and understanding attitude. No "But you should all hang for what you did!?" Not a one? ;) I can tell Mac and her friends are exceptionally dedicated players, but that they also care about the game a great deal, as in the "Big Picture" view. So I greatly appreciate the tolerance and the understanding that you have shown towards the fact that we need to handle botters, and that sometimes -- and always with great regret -- someone gets caught in the crossfire. But, as you can see, we do listen, we do respond, and more importantly, we do care.
Oh, and speaking of crossfire, in this case, I checked Mac, and the backside of one shoulder needed a little buffing, but a bit of armour polish and a dust-off and she was on her way. :) -- Gaile 05:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Naming Policy update

Hey Gaile, I have a quick question. I have a character which name I was previously forced to alter. Reading the new policy, I have a feeling it might still not be an acceptable name. Is their a possibility I can turn myself in without getting my name randomized, as this would be a second time offence? If not, I realise it is my own fault and I hope I'd get a nice random name. HeavenMonkey 13:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for asking, HeavenMonkey. Please go ahead and contact support and they'll give you a hand. Generally, when someone "self-reports," we help out with a change without placing a penalty on the account. That's up to the team to decide, but I am certain that your letting us know about the name, rather than having it reported, will be the best way to go. By the way, the team cannot do "name changes by request," but can only assist with names that breach the User Agreement or the Naming Policy. -- Gaile 23:35, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Gaile, I'll go ahead and contact support. HeavenMonkey 17:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The issue was resolved the same day I submitted a ticket. I was allowed to rename my character without further penalty (that I know of anyway :p ). Thanks again for your reply. HeavenMonkey 21:34, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, allowed is the wrong word. More like forced, but at my own request. So I'm not sure what the appropriate term would be. Not that it really matters of course ^^ HeavenMonkey 21:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad it sorted out for your, HeavenMonkey. We have a generous policy about this, in that we'd rather someone let us know they have an offensive name so it can be addressed, rather than wait until it's reported or observed. So folks who have an offensive name -- and I don't mean a name that they want to change, but one that's going to get blocked -- should contact Support to arrange for a similar "kind and gentle" resolution.
Or, face the Wrath of Balthazar. ;) -- Gaile 06:06, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Guild Name Policy

Is it possible to have an internal discussion at Anet about the Guild Naming Policy? Specifically I don't mean the rules those are fine, but the inherent punishment attached to it. For most guilds, a lot of the members have nothing to do with the name of the guild, yet in a Guild Ban, every member is punished with a permanent (technically) irreversible guild ban that prevents the Guild from growing in any way, forcing a reform in most cases. Specifically, how about applying the Character Naming policy in a way? First offense you get a free rename, second offense you get a random name? But they keep ladder position, can still recruit, etc. Still keep the strictness of the rules themselves, but punish people less for it because the rules themselves are strict and not nearly as game breaking as botting or something is. (I'm not sure if this is the right section, sorry if it isn't! :( ) In some cases, a ban could prevent guilds from being able to participate in mAT's because they can't invite guests etc, which seems quite harsh really. TY for any response you can give. DarkNecrid 21:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Saw Regina's post on Guru, thanks anyways! :P DarkNecrid 04:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Just to let you know: Until very recently (a couple of weeks ago) we did not have the ability to un-censor a guild. The only way to deal with an offensive name was to block the guild, which meant it wasn't able to participate in the ATS and required the whole guild to start over. It's a heavy penalty, we know, but the technology for renaming guilds doesn't exist now and given the other things on the "to do" list, and the modest number of times the need arises, spending dev time to add that tool is not a high priority. With a glitch in the system, the two guild tags in the current discussion were fixed as a sort of "work around." But that's a temporary situation -- a bug, actually -- and the team will soon lose that work-around for tags. (We have to fix the bug, though, so that a guild that is blocked in error will not get stuck with the "ban" tag.)
I have asked team members at ArenaNet how they would like the Support Team to address offensive guild names and tags. All direction comes from ArenaNet; the Support Teams await their instructions. Names that are borderline are sent to ArenaNet for review. Heck, Regina and I discuss several names a week (and find ourselves in agreement about 100% of the time, btw). Lastly, all of the ArenaNet folks who reviewed the recent blocks agreed with the blocks. We all know it's never a fun thing to block a name or to be blocked; everyone wants care used with each block. In the end, the teams try to react as discretely and moderately as possible, but offensive names and words really cannot be left in place. -- Gaile 23:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe guild tags are discussed in the same manner? Like File:offensive guild tag.png? --Silverleaf Special:Contributions/SilverleafDon't assume, Know! 00:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
We're concerned about character names, guild names, and guild tags. After all, no filter setting will block those, so we take extra care with names. And call me naive, I don't see how that name/tag is offensive. -- Gaile 06:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Um.. Gaile, he's flipping you off in the tag. o-O is the eyes and the other is the finger. Blood Red Giant 06:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
*rolls eyes* I don't believe that's offensive. More like silly. :) -- Gaile 02:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I believe the finger is offensive. — Poki#3 My Talk Page :o 00:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
The middle finger means "fuck you." How is that not offensive? ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 21:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
The "middle finger" in that imagine is just bizarre. It's a bunch of letters and symbols that someone squinted at sideways, while wearing his granny's glasses, drinking half a dozen shots, and looking through the bottom of a coke bottle and said "Yea, that really looks like eyes and a middle finger." I'm sorry, you go ahead and "see it." I don't. Wrong placement, wrong proportions, just silliness. And you know what, I don't think most people do see that as offensive without someone have to explain it to them, after which is because another lame internet joke.
I could say "Oh goshie darn, I just put the letters XYQ together and it clearly shows an offensive body part!!1!" but does it, really? I tell you what: As I often do, I'll refer this matter for a review by the entire Support Team. A bunch of people will be shown this symbol without any predisposition to what it "means." If they find it offensive, they'll take action. If not, they won't. That seems fair enough to me. -- Gaile 21:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Then why do you ban people for 卍? It looks like a ninja star to me. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 23:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Its actually supposed to be a budhist symbol or something, and its not the swastika rotates, that roates in the other direction, so how IS it offensive? --→Darklɘs McChaosmongɘr 00:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I was going to save that point until Gaile dug the support team a bigger hole of lies, but thanks for bringing that out now. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 05:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset Indent)[1] 卍 <----Is a peace symbol. It is offensive to people that don't understand it and/or are simple minded enough to think that anything that looks like that is related to Hitler and genocide. It is an ancient sign of Hindu and Buddhist law. “Swasti” is Sanskrit for well-being, and the angular, clockwise-spinning arms are an auspicious sign of peace, luck, and protection on doorways, signs, gates, and the front of vehicles. Click on the swastika to see what wiki has to say about it. About the guild tag. If their intent was to have it look like somebody giving you the finger then I think it should be changed because you are not allowed to name a character or guild anything that might offend anybody, and since the finger is aparantly offensive to people. Its not just about the image or what it says, it is also about their intent.Talk page Drogo Boffin 13:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

True, but unfortunately we live in a post-WWII world, where that symbol is still heavily stigmatized, and outright baned in some countries. Shame that one incident ruined a 5000 year old symbol, but you can't just ignore it. — Poki#3 My Talk Page :o 15:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I have to agree with Gaile on this one... I don't see a middle finger there anywhere... If anything i see a cart (the eyes) next to a temple! I think all of you who see that as offensive are reading much too much into it. Jamesthetigger 20:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Here is a screen of a conversation with the guild leader. The tag is cleary against the Policy based on his intent when the guild was created and should be changed. File:User_DrogoBoffin_Pt_guild_leader_convo.jpgTalk page Drogo Boffin 23:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
^ good enough proof?...and @ poki, if it is such a bad symbol, why isnt it banned in gw? nvm ur talking about swastica --→Darklɘs McChaosmongɘr 23:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Forgot to sign earlierTalk page Drogo Boffin 23:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The symbol in question is, as I have said many times, not at all a harmful or hateful symbol. The manner in which it is used is, often, both intended to harm and based on instincts of hate. What earthly reason would someone use that symbol in normal conversation? Why spam lines of that in chat, except to alarm and offend? So the bottom line is: Reports are viewed to try to get a feel for the intention, and in the vase majority of cases, the person is blocked not for using the symbol but for the underlying reasons behind the use. And yes, it is often very clear to see intention.

I have run the guild symbol by the entire team. Two members who have an encyclopedic knowledge of offensive language and symbols both felt that the use was obscure, at best, and that anyone who could tell what the symbol meant would most likely not be offended by it.

We all sense a lot of trivial "pot stirring," and we're not going to be drawn into endless debates while folks who can't play the game -- due to unacceptable behavior -- try to "play the wiki." Wiki Admins: Please address these continued intrusions, breaches of the NPA rules, trivial "reports," and verbal offenses as you see fit. -- Gaile 21:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Ban

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Please ban every single person at ANet. You named a boss "Asshole the Mighty" and this is very offending to me. If you ban a guild with the tag [SuKa] because it means bitch in Polish you should ban yourself and change that name aswell. If not, you are hypocrites.

Thank you! Mini Me talk 14:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Also, your name offends me. Mini Me talk 15:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
SuKa is quite clearly an abbreviation of the first two words of their guild name and the tag is capitalized as such with it being fairly obvious there was no intent for it to be a cuss word in a random language none of them even speak. Also apparently Regina's name is offensive and she should be banned: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=2&term=Regina (third description, slang). DarkNecrid 15:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a difference between an 'urban dictionary' and a dictionary... but I do aggree with the whole naming of the boss thing... now that it is identified as a problem change the bosses name and this double standard problem vanishes in an instant... as for the guilds name and it's ban I'm wondering if theres not a page in the story missing... name issues usualy get the option of a renaming don't they? 192.203.160.241 15:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Player names yes, Guild Names keep their name but get a tag called [ban] and can't do Guild functions anymore, with no possible option of renaming. This is a guild of good people who made an innocent tag that is an abbreviation of their guild name (like a lot of tags) that by pure circumstance is a bad word if you don't use the capitalization that makes it obvious that it is an abbreviation. There's too many languages that you could go through ArenaNet's own game and find words that could be offensive (Mind you, Suka in Russian is actually spelt Cyka, so it isn't even correct). DarkNecrid 15:56, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
A further note is that the guy who reported them knew they didn't mean it this way but has a grudge against their guild and openly bragged about reporting them on QQ forums just to grief them even though he knew it didn't mean that word. DarkNecrid 15:58, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I also think this is a stupid ban. The tag SuKa is quite obviously the first two letters of Super Kaon. Surely it must be clear from the way the trahg is writtten that this was the intention, and not the polish word. Do you really expect players to know every possible connotation for a word in all different languages? 87.75.167.60 16:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Great day in the morning, ok now with this extra information I'm offended at people who are easily offended... Looking up other definitions of SuKa in other languages it means everything from Sugar to Vinegar... (I also learned alot about "Kaon"!) I don't think the tag is offensive in passing or after review... now if it was a polish guild or a guild who constantly and intentionaly goes to the polish to aggrovate them then go ahead with a ban... but sheesh... Their full name is Super Kaon Action Team... or Skat... did you know that sCat (note the excange of K for a C) can mean Faeces in english (a waste product produced in the digestive tract) ohh dear! 192.203.160.241 16:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Same as the guild the name is based on, Seppo Hovi Action Team [SHAT] (also just an abbreviation of their guild name, and harmless). Also, not only does suka mean nice stuff in certain languages, it's also the name of an instrument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suka. DarkNecrid 16:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
It's been fixed, although their tag is still Ban (I thought vibe got their tag fixed when they were banned)...nice to see ArenaNet pull through because this was pretty ridiculous of support. Gaile, you should make sure Martin gets some a hug or something, he rules. DarkNecrid 17:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset Indent)I really can't believe this, first [dodo], I personally thought it was a clever name and in no way offesnive. But some people find bodily functions offensive, cool. But now they were banned because it means "Bitch" in POLISH? Really? Yet at the same time it's a compliment in other languages, it's an instrument and it's quite clearly an abbreviation. Anet get your head out of your asses and quit coddling to every butt hurt person who gets rejected from a guild. --Ryuujinx/Dazra

Sorry but I laughed so hard looking at some of those Urban dictionary definations. lol. Well, I suppose if you're making a game that has an international audience you're going to be finding someone is going to be offended by something. I laugh at some of the NPC names, they are generally swear words from some of the lesser known languages. ^_^ 000.00.00.00 08:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The guild chose a tag that happens to be offensive in a language that is supported within the game. It's unfortunate, and yes, it can be entirely accidental and yet have some pretty significant (and necessary) outcomes. I got a letter suggesting that we should only take action if a word or name is offensive in English. Sorry, no. We're a global game, and we have to ensure that respect is shown to folks who speak as many languages as we support in the game, at the very least. (And yes, we do support Russian.)

Sometimes, a bad choice is truly an accident. I believe it was here. But obviously, not all bad names are chose innocently. I've seen a few this week alone that were clearly chosen because someone with a gutter-level sense of humour thought it would be amusing to try to slip by crude language, inappropriate sexual or scatological references, etc. We had a discussion this afternoon about one such name. It turns out that there was a communication gap, but it'll be addressed. And hey, really, does it matter if a word or handle means "hummingbird" in Latvian, or "12th Century monk" in Upper Lower Moldavianish? If it's offensive as a name or tag in any of the several languages supported in the game, it really has to be handled. After all, names cannot be blocked by any filter settings, so it's doubly important to deal with those that cross the line.

There's a suggestion I'd like to share (and one that Linsey brought up recently, too): Players creating a guild (or a character) could take advantage of one of the online translators (AltaVista, Google, etc.) and check out a name or acronym. Yes, it takes a minute or two, but why not? After all, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The company -- in policy -- and the team -- in practice -- try to take a reasonable and fair approach to all names. The blocks are placed when necessary, and out of respect for our international player base. Your understanding and support of that would be appreciated. -- Gaile 09:02, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi there Gaile. There are roughly speaking (wry smile) 6500 spoken languages in the world. Perhaps the player should check the offensiveness of the chosen character or guild name plus acronym for every language? I found myself speechless reading that SuKa required a ban in the first place because it was complained about for being offensive in, perhaps, one language out of 6500. Should not the name stand as long as the name or acronym is not offensive in the language(s) of the creator of the character or guild? ArenaNet cannot be the moral guardian of every possible word or acronym used in the whole wide world as potential offensiveness is a measure of the diversity of humankind and not the measure of how people choose to be deliberately or inadvertently offensive.
Bans in any case are unnecesary as measure of first resort as ArenaNet could (?) simply notify the character or guild creator of the complaint having been made and provide warning and facility to change the character or guild name at next login. Failure to change the name would be the real and deliberate act of offensiveness and barred login would then be appropriate.-- Bearz User Bearz pawprint.png 10:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
They can't offer guild name changes for one reason or another. Just censoring the guild tag (but allowing the guild to still invite, etc, y'know, breathe) is good enough I think. DarkNecrid 11:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh lol, really? So now I'm expected go sit there and translate my name into tons of other languages just because it might be offensive in another language? That's flat out ridiculous. It's bad enough you guys went all carebear and ruined the PvP, now we have to put up with retarded naming policies too. Expecting your users to use external means to research means that you're system is flawed. You never have to alt/tab from GW if you don't want to. You might be more effecient, but it has never been required. There are almost 7,000 languages spoken in the world, are we expected to go through all of them to make sure that "Taco" doesn't mean "Whore" in some language? That is moronic. GW2 better make me pass out from it's awesomeness because I'm not sure I want to support a company with retarded policies like this. --Ryuujinx/Dazra
Sorry, this just seems relevant.--Dunyas Image:User_Dunyas_sig.png 14:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Granted Anet is the authority on making this as policy... but credit must be given to players who can then point out the flaw when a boss falls under the same naming problem yet no change is made... 192.203.160.241 15:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
There are 6000-7000 languages in the world sure, but most names aren't likely to be offensive in any of them, and if you're not sure, you probably only need to check the most common five or ten or so. (Or you can just not bother and cross fingers it isn't a problem; because it probably isn't. You're not expected to go checking translators, after all; it's a suggestion, not a recommendation.) Not sure how many languages Guild Wars has but it's definitely not thousands or even hundreds... -- Sirius (talk) 15:47, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Guild Wars is presented in 10 languages, all of which are offered in the language translators that I have used. Let's not continue this antagonistic "How dare you?" tone here. We "dare" because we must. We're stewards of the community, and as such, we monitor and take action upon offensive names. Cries of "But there's a boss that's [whatever]!" are decidedly not the point, but certainly if you have concerns about something of that nature, send it to support and we'll look into it. (We have addressed such issues in the past, and I can assure you no one has "snuck in" offensive names to see what we can get by with, for goodness sake!)
I offered a suggestion that several of us thought might be helpful. Take it or leave it -- it's just a thought. We will continue to make reviews of and take action on offensive words and names; smart people can avoid making an innocent error if they wish. -- Gaile 15:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Well I'm a Steward of the Luxons, so puh!
Also I'm totally going to send a ticket about the asshole. Mini Me talk 19:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

So then Anet not only expects it's users to spend time outside the game to research if their NAME is appropriate (Really, can you say that to yourself and not think it's stupid?), is hypocritical by having bosses named as such, and bans as a first resort. Awesome, glad to know I wasted a few hundred dollars on you guys. You know what else is an international game? FFXI. I will continue this "how dare you" tone because it is an unneeded, silly and completely retarded policy. Fine, some jackass finds it offensive. Well you know what, I think I'll go find every person with some variant of the word "naruto" and report them because I might work for Viz and think it's offensive that they're using our copyrighted name. You certainly can't prove me wrong. The fact that if I really want to I can invent a reason and get someone else banned... well I'm sure glad I hardly leave my guild hall nowadays. Further, let's be fair here - this game is rated T. That means that some innuendo and some moderate swearing is not only allowed by the ESRB, but almost EXPECTED. let's take the PG-13 movies Austin Powers and some of the names they have here. They have someone named "Fat Bastard" and this is a perfectly acceptable name as found by the MPAA, that same name would get me banned faster then I could say "Unfair". Quit coddling to 5 year olds who should not be playing. --Ryuujinx/Dazra

You become more awesome every time you post. Mini Me talk 19:51, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Come one guys, don't assume that anyone is 100% right or wrong. Anet is wrong about Dupek, and so far hasn't done anything about it. But SuKa, no matter what letters are capitalized or not, when seen as a simple tag next to a name, is actually extremely offensive to any Russian or Eastern-European. It's an unfortunate coincidence, but nevertheless, there is no way of knowing what the guild name is without asking the member what Su Ka syllables stand for, all you see is the 4-letter word spelled in leet-speak. If english equivalents of this word were used in game, it would have to be rated R in the USA, and Russian and Polish happen to be supported languages in this game, so let it go. A guild name of "Awesome Super Smiters" would in no way deserve an acronym, no matter how innocent the guild name is. However, I will also submit a ticket about Dupek, because even though it cracked me up every time I did the SS/LB farm, it's still inappropriate, because again, Polish is supported in this game, and it sounds nasty in Polish. I don't believe that rules should be read literally 100% of the time, but that they need to be used as guidelines, and ultimately, common sense should decide. So far, I see very little common sense in most of this discussion... Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 20:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Incorrect, offensive language is within the scope of T per ESRB as long as it is infrequent (and one guild out of every few thousand is infrequent), I'm too lazy to look up MPAA's ratings but I'm pretty sure that it would be rated PG-13. --Dazra/Ryuujinx 21:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
What if they became popular, like LaZy? All of a sudden your guild's popularity decides whether they are subject to censoring or not? As long as there is the possibility, that's enough. Ooh, and I submitted my dupek ticket, got a reply that they are "escalating your ticket to our Guild Wars senior staff members" woo! Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaile, your responses here are bordering insanity. You're expecting people in a video game to spend literally hours googling their guild name and tag in multiple languages to make sure it doesn't offend someone? Seriously?
Reality check, honey. You're off the deep end on that one. It isn't helpful advice to tell someone to do that, it's bad advice. Being helpful in this case would be releasing a complete list of banned words, so people can just ctrl-f and make sure their guild isn't "offensive." You can't honestly expect anyone to do any more than that in the name of political correctness.
You (possibly) have a legal responsibility to make sure people aren't offended while playing your game. I respect that. However, telling people to spend time googling as to not offend carebears is not the way to go about things. For your players, Guild Wars is simply a video game - something they do in their spare time. If you honestly want to be remotely helpful in this case, release a list of banned words (or possibly extend your pre-creation screening to cover everything that will get someone banned, if you're that intent on keeping your list hidden). -Auron >8< 22:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

plz ban me, I have an inappropriate username, as the official ANet wiki my name could be considered offensive to 1 or 2 people and you have to enforce your rules SuKa 22:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) No "full and complete" list will be offered, ever. For one thing, that list would need to be changed frequently, as language evolves. And for another, the instant a list was published, some antagonistic person would find a word that wasn't on the list, make a name, and inform us that it is his legal, moral, ethical, and cultural right to use the offensive name. So sorry, a list won't be offered. Not even if you call me "honey." ;)

It would take, oh, 3 or 4 minutes to check the name, not hours, days, weeks, or years. Name check: use it, or not -- your choice. Most names and words would obviously not even need a check, and no one "expects" you to do so. The idea is offered as a friendly "suggestion" for those who want to take it.

I have searched my emails, and I reported the name Dupek in August and November of 2007. I was assured it would be blocked on November 30, 2007. Sadly, the name fell through the cracks, and we accept responsibility for that and regret any discomfort, offense, or irritation that the name caused. We will be addressing this as soon as possible, although I'm told it may not make the April build due to time constraints. -- Gaile 22:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I reported dupek today, and just got this reply: "The Development Team has been notified to review the NPC's name for inappropriateness. Thank you for showing your concern and keeping Guild Wars a positive environment for all to enjoy." So maybe they'll do something about it this time. I'm sorry about all these pathetic idiots here trying to say that SuKa deserved to stay or whatever... WTB common sense pls! Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 22:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, Andrew Patrick was going to add it to the official Bug List, and it will be addressed. We just do not have a timeframe for that yet. -- Gaile 00:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
You know, calling most users in this discussion "pathetic idiots" is probably more insulting or offensive than some guild tags which happen to be swear words in another language. Common sense would be nice, yes, but not only selectively. -- Brains12 \ talk 00:39, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Political correctness and language filters can easily go too far. A word in itself has no offensive content. For example a suka is also a musical instrument, but We Like To Play The [Suka] is apparently inappropriate. I have a friend who plays from London, he was quite disheartened when Frosty The Cockney was a disallowed user name because it contained the word "Cock". Perhaps some reasonableness needs to be excercised when censoring. While intentionally naming your guild Conglomerate Under No Tyrant with a rather obvious guild tag is rather obvious, it is literally possible to offend someone in the world with anything. You are almost encouraging people to report strange and obscure things as offensive to troll Arenanet with your current path. Good luck with that. By the way, Merkin and w:Merkin, might want to look into that one. Misery 23:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I can't remember what language it was, but I think someone once told me the swear filter blocked out my real name--Eva--and that it was a swear word is some Eastern European language.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 23:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
  1. Captain Quimang is censored by your in-game filter, fix pls
  2. Damned Clerics offend me, please remove them from the game --71.246.218.44 00:12, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Please remove all skills with the word "bite" in their names since it means something obscene in French while you're at it. (end sarcasm) 71.181.0.93 01:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
This double standard is pretty absurd gaile. IP 2 posts above me is completely right about the names. If I can't type it in chat with the filter on, it should not be an arenanet created enemy name. i got a 3 day ban for butthole, but damn is ok. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 02:33, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that's right. Would you like me to explain that damn / body part thing to you? I mean, I can go off on the whole linguistic differences between derivations of the word "doom" and references to body parts, but I don't imagine you really need the education. :) -- Gaile 03:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Players creating a guild (or a character) could take advantage of one of the online translators (AltaVista, Google, etc.) and check out a name or acronym.
I have a better idea. How about YOU go look up every curse word in every language and add them to the list of names Guild Wars doesn't let players make? Yeah, it's so unfortunate that a random selection of letters from the ~30 symbols on western keyboards probably is a curse word in one of the world's thousands of languages. You can't expect players to become linguistic experts on all the world's languages and religions whenever they want to make a new character. This is the most unrealistic thing I've ever seen a game company ask its players to do. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 03:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Already "suggested." Already answered. -- Gaile 03:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Clearly, we're getting into a circular discussion. If there is new information to relay, it will be passed along through the normal channels. Dealing with offensive names is, as the saying goes, "a tough job, but somebody's got to do it." And somebody has to do it for a lot of good reasons. I'm truly saddened when situations arise with name blocks, but I don't think anyone (in his right mind) would suggest a "no filter / no block" policy. So, the team does what is has to do, and that can cause distress, which I know we all -- community and company -- regret. I think that's pretty much all I can say on the subject. Thanks for understanding. -- Gaile 03:29, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, quite clearly ANET is a bunch of idiots. And yes, it is quite apparently EXPECTED. Not suggested. Suggestion means that you aren't going to be punished for it. For an example in the situation you were using it from, you could say it is suggested you are not to shoot someone in the face with a shotgun. This is not suggested, this is expected and if you don't you will be put in jail/death sentanced. Similar, if you don't and your name happens to mean "asshole" in polish or something, you will be banned, with no warning. Also, it isn't exactly intelligent of a person who represents anet to talk down to us and insinuate at our intelligence. Nor is it intelligent for you to go around banning without warning. The EULA stated that you must be 13 or 14 to play (I can't remember tbh) and quite honestly, you should stick by that. The word "Bitch" regardless if it's in polish or in english is not going to scar a 13 year old forever. They probably hear infinitely worse at school anyway. So I will ask this directly as it's been ignored - why are you catering to 5 year olds? As it is the only explanation I can come up with ANET's behavior in this matter. --Dazra/Ryuujinx 04:12, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I was gonna say something REALLY funny in response to that, but I don't want to get a 3 month ban, so I'll just laugh it out. Hahaha. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 04:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
@IP: I would say you crossed the GWW:NPA line multiple times in one comment, watch it, and keep yourself in check please.
@Shard: Good call. — Jon Lupen 04:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
And having clearly reached the end of any useful discussion, for the thread that started nasty and never really found a decent stride, it's archive time. -- Gaile 04:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Archived Topic

http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGaile_Gray%2FSupport_Issues&diff=1427623&oldid=1427621

That section was an active discussion and is governed by GWW guidelines. Please restore the discussion. --75.71.67.5 07:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to submit your request for arbitration by a SysOp or Bureaucrat. I have always willingly abided by their direction and leadership. However, as far as I can ascertain, an archive was entirely appropriate under the following considerations:
  • Removal of clear vandalism and spam
  • Removal of material prohibited by policy in a manner as ascribed by policy, such as GWW:NPA and GWW:COPYRIGHT.
Again, I will be happy to accept the direction of a site administrator, but until I have that, you -- whomever you are -- and I can agree to disagree on the appropriateness of the archiving and I will politely decline to move back to an "active discussion" a conversation that contained -- nay, focused -- on the aforementioned wiki-unacceptable type of content. -- Gaile 07:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I support Gaile's action in archiving that "discussion" that was full of thinly veiled as well as blatant violations of GWW:NPA. There is no reason any member of this community has to accept that kind of abuse. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 07:47, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Updated deceptive link. --75.71.67.5 07:53, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, I don't. Enough for me to stop lurking and post. The discussion itself was about the flawed name filtering system, the NPA and shrewd comments could have been filtered out separately and still kept the discussion going. I like you Gaile, but how some of us see it is you were trying to end the discussion.... --Shadowphoenix 14:53, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
The point of an archive is to hold topics that no longer fit on the main page. This is why one generally archives the entire page once it's getting full. (Of course, with a page as popular as this, "full" here means something different than "full" elsewhere.) The point of an archive is not to stop a topic in its tracks, as you so clearly did. General rule of thumb is to archive things after they've been dead for a week or so, not once the user is bored of the conversation.
As your talk page is the specific place to bring up issues like this to you, you'll have a job convincing people that the content is "wiki-unacceptable". The only thing that might have been unacceptable would have been Shard's comment that he didn't actually say. Everyone else was just pissed off because of ANet's double standards, and you happen to be (one of) ANet's main point(s) of communication with the outside world. (One could argue that there was a huge amount of "unacceptable language" in that thread, but we don't have a language filter.)
Guess what? Not everyone in the world is going to like you. There are high school kids that recognize and accept that. If you don't want to take the brunt of the community feedback, take it up with NCSoft and their policies of how the devs communicate with the outside world. (And while you're at it, I wish you luck trying to convince people to talk to Lindsey or Regina when you were their first point of communication for so long and are still the favorite of many.)
Also, *whoever. Not that you ought be caring in the first place.
69.109.165.33 15:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Wow, you people just don't give up when you should. THAT topic was full of QQ and rants about 5 year olds and the thousands of languages in this world, while name enforcement only occurs if it's offensive in one of the game supported languages, nothing about any thousands there. Archiving was the best way to get that tidal wave of idiocy out of people's faces. And so what that they were made to change their name? OMG! BIG F*IN DEAL! NOBODY got permanently banned! It's a suspension, not a ban, figure out the difference for yourself. You're acting like every member of that guild was perma-banned! Also, if you want to reopen a topic, ffs, have something to say, instead of wasting everyone's time with nonsense. People found Dupek and swarmed over him like bees over honey "DOUBLE STANDARDS!! WAAA!!!" That doesn't mean Anet needs to completely stop enforcing any rules. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 18:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not really a frequest user of the wiki, but I feel I should say something here anyway. I am the one who made the guild [SuKa]. First off I'd like to point out that what you are saying is wrong. Guild bans are supposed to be permanent, and support has claimed many times that guilds cannot be unbanned. Apparently our guild can get unbanned though, because that is what happened. Our tag will change to [ban], which is ok with me since we can still fully use the guild.
Next time I make a guild, I will check if it's offensive in any of the supported languages. However, I am not convinced that every offensive slang is listed on easily found places on the internet (not to mention that it is easy to make things offensive without offensive words). I am also convinced that there won't be many tags left when everything is offensive. The current system where one report=ban means that players have to be very careful choosing tags, which just cannot be expected. This is also why I think that Gaile's suggestion doesnt help much. Support should take context (guildname) into consideration, to prevent handing out random bans.
Don't even get me started on the fact that one single player can get a whole guild banned... 86.90.30.175 19:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
But just to clarify (and not to reopen the topic, which really needs a new thread) it was not the report that caused the block, it was the name. (And with all respect, it wasn't a random ban. :-/ ) If the name was not offensive, the guild would not have been tagged in any way whatsoever, not even with a thousand reports. The team couldn't say "Well, this guy submitting the report seems to be trying to get the guild in trouble so we should ignore the offensiveness of the name" or "the guild is active and we should be nice to them and ignore the fact the name is offensive in one of our game-supported languages." The word "bit**" is blocked in English or in any other language in which it's found. (Whether it should be blocked is, please, another topic for another thread.)
If the policy is that offensive names are actioned, and it is, then offensive names must be actioned. While it would be nice to be able to take context as a guide, using context doesn't work when the name or tag is offensive. Context doesn't justify or forgive offensiveness. We're not going to leave a word meaning defecation in the game because someone (apparently) played with words to "justify" the tag. Logic like "Oh, their name is 'Felons Under Considerable Konflict' so we must leave that tag in the game" is way, way off. Honestly, think about it! :)
The report may have been sent over to try to grief the guild. But the report pointed out a name issue, and that had to be addressed. I'm really sorry that all this happened, but I don't see any other way to deal with it. I am sure that everyone will get more information on this subject from Community Team members. I just wanted to clarify policy and process from a Support perspective, to make it clear that malicious reports would not prompt the blocking of an inoffensive name. -- Gaile 20:21, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Please note that guidelines are guidelines. I'm not generally fond of quick-archiving except as a last resort, but it's not disallowed. - Tanetris 18:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
If you feel the need to have a discussion regarding appropriate names and reasonable steps that ArenaNet Support can take when considering a ban feel free to start a new topic. The one that was archived was nothing more than a series of rants and contained multiple violations of GWW:NPA. As such, Gaile could have simply deleted all of the offending posts as if they had never happened, but she chose instead to archive the discussion. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 21:26, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Racial slurs??

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I got a 167 hour ban for "racial slurs?" How is this possible? I have not said anything in local chat or pm that I would be reported for. If anet is reading my chat logs, then this is unfair targeting against me. They need to read every player's log and ban everybody who makes a crude joke. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 21:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I got a response from NCsoft and logs of my racial slurs. Thing is, they were in whisper chat. Why is my whisper chat being spied on? I'm sure I'm not the only one who jokes in whisper chat. I smell corruption. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 22:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
The rules apply to all in-game chat variants... poke | talk 22:15, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Errh, and why can't I blame myself? Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 22:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
poke: i know it applies to all game varients, but i'm asking why is my whisper chat being spied on? the logs they gave for whispers were from a week ago. usually when someone is reported, it'll go through in a day or two, seems to me like they have been watching me specifically. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 22:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
If I understand you correctly, you admit to using racial slurs in whispers, and have seen the log that shows you doing so. You are aware that it is against the rules whether in local or whisper. I don't see you ruling out the possibility that it was reported because of who the other person was, so am I to take it the person you were whispering either was offended by it or you don't know them well enough to be sure one way or the other? And your complaint is that someone has it in for you, for banning you for something you did do that is against the rules?
Have you considered that the other person just didn't report you right away? Or someone else reported about a more recent, more borderline case so they decided to look back through your recent history? Or that support's had a busy week with higher-priority things to do and just now got around to reviewing the report on you?
Also, why would it take longer for support to ban you if they were actively "spying" on you than if someone reported you? - Tanetris 22:43, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
The people i pm'ed with the racial jokes were buddies of mine and they would not report me as they joke with me too, strange they did not get banned. The only log that could have been reportable was when i said the f word in local. It wasn't aimed at anyone, i'm sure it was just in the wrong window since i don't say that in local, for this very reason. I highly doubt anyone even reported me. Even that being the reason for the ban, however, the ban was for racial slurs. I feel the live team has a problem with me, mostly due to some things I've said on the wiki, so they were waiting for any kind of reason for a ban, and when the local chat mistake came up, they jumped on me and threw in other non-related infringements they dug out of whisper. i whisper for a reason, so noone gets offended, and it is not aimed as hate to the person i whisper. anet was just waiting for the chance, building up ammo. the only local chat violation was on 4-16, but the recial slurs that they dug up were from 4-11, and they were not reported. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 22:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
He wasn't reported by a guildie. Trust me, this person he pm'd is paying $300 to fly across the country to come to our wedding ceremony at the end of the month and says worse things back and forth to Adrin. --*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 22:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
On a similar note, I just found out my account has been banned for "EULA violations," even though I have done absolutely nothing wrong in many, many months. I already submitted a support ticket (090416-001722), but I expect to hear mostly bullshit from support, since the only thing they seem to be good at is banning people who play the game.
You will be losing more than three customers from this. If I have to, I will make sure every gamer on the planet knows how ArenaNet works. Singling out and prejudicing against customers is not only unethical, it is also highly illegal, and I will make sure the BBB hears about not only this incident, but also about the conversations I've had with many, MANY people (including people working at arenanet) indicating arenanet has been discriminating against us specifically. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 23:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I just found out about Shard's ban. When we're both 2 of the known people on the s**tlist of anet, it's quite a coincidence that we both got banned on the exact same day isn't it? His was for "violations of the EULA". Couldn't think of a good enough reason? --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 23:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I guess my only question is... are you seriously this surprised? After your months of ArenaNet hate mongering here do you really think no one noticed? Do you think they are not going to pay particular attention to people who have been verbally abusive to their staff unendingly for months and months? My only surprise is that it seriously took this long for it to happen. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 23:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
If my ban was due to my bad attitude towards anet ont he wiki, why am I banned in game and not from the wiki Wyn? --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 23:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I was unaware that singling out customers was legal...oh wait, that's because it's not. I'd expect blocks on wiki for stuff I do on wiki (which I got). I have done nothing wrong in game, so I would expect to not get banned in game for something completely unrelated. I say nigger in vent all the time, should I get a penalty for that too? You know what, izzy said "fuck" when he invited me to his vent, maybe I should report him to anet for inappropriate language. In fact, regina quoted some of my curse words on the wiki, I should report her too.
Anet's singling out of people and favoratism of others is not a new thing, it's been going on for a very long time. I'm not really angry that my main is banned, I'm just pissed that I got banend for nothing, whereas other people who admit to RMT and scamming get no punishment whatsoever. It's even more infuriating that they didn't give me a reason for my ban. They gave Adrin a reason. It was a bullshit reason, but at least they made one up. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 23:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
I didn't say your ban was due to activities here on the wiki, I said that your activities here on the wiki only put a spotlight on you for scrutiny. I have no idea how you behave in game, but I guess I would have to assume it's much like you've behaved here since you are you, so since you can't seem to play nice with others here and follow the rules, you probably don't play nice with others and follow the rules in game. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 00:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) As I always say, please do speak with support if you have questions about this sort of situation. They can answer your questions about a block or termination involving your Guild Wars account. I will tell you that I've seen situations arise where, when researching a report, the team becomes aware of other issues. For instance, a certain percentage of name reports turn up additional offensive names when the first is reviewed. Someone writing for help with an account may cause the team to discover that his account was hacked/stolen, even though the player simply thought he had a password issue. Occasionally a spamming report exposes scamming, or racist chat, or harassment. Or vice versa on any of these examples.

Sometimes, a report two days ago reveals very little to object to then, but some really objectionable, rules-breaking issues the previous week. Breaches of the UA don't really have a shelf life, and if discovered, they'll be handled. As will helping players with issues. For example, I just worked with a player whose "password issue," which he wrote us about last week, was actually a case of the account being taken over by a "friend" nearly a year ago. We worked with the owner to regain access, of course.

Anyway, Support will give you the information that you seek. -- Gaile 00:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Hijacking a bit the discussion, but on a related note, are breaches in the rules of conduct counted when they ocurr here in the wiki instead of in-game? You guys never gave us an answer about if the wiki is a "Guild Wars website" for that purpose.--Fighterdoken 00:14, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Felix. That's a fair question, and I can only answer it from my perspective: I have never known a member of any of the Support Teams to take action on a game account for issues related to behavior on the Guild Wars Wiki. I am unsure whom you asked earlier, but does that information help at all? -- Gaile 00:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I think it was Regina who we asked eons ago, but the question was probably lost in the "to find the answer" tank. Still, it would be better to know that "it will/wont be done" than knowing that "it has not" :).--Fighterdoken 00:31, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
How about reassigning ALL GMs to work on game balance. It doesn't matter that they have no experience in game balance whatsoever, random balancing would be better than the broken metagame that exists now. Oh, and WTB less QQ from Anet and more pewpew. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.64.14.52 (talk • contribs) at 00:38, 17 April 2009 (UTC).
Gaile, I'm curious to know about the Support Team's stance on issues like adrin's above. Assuming that adrin is telling the truth and whispers such language back and forth between friends who also use similar language, is this a bannable offense? It would seem like if two friends are whispering such comments to each other, however offensive an outsider might see it, it would mean it is taking place in private, away from other eyes and ears, and shouldn't warrant a ban on either party's side. Of course, if he had been whispering such thing to random people to cause a ruckus, then I would understand, but as far as I can tell, he's only done it between friends, which would seem quite unfair. If someone reprots him for something totally unrelated, and Support happens to notice his comments, but doesn't look to see that it was a private whisper to someone who was also using such language, will they issue a ban for this? Just curious. --★KOKUOU★ 03:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I find the implications disturbing as well. God knows how many, ah, "inappropriate" comments I've made in PMs to friends, guild chat, alliance chat, etc. Some could certainly be ban-worthy. Maybe it's a mistake on the players' side to assume that non-public chat is "private" and therefore safe as long as no one is offended/reports? *Big Brother senses tingling* Vili >8< User talk:Vili 03:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Adrin -- it wasn't just whispers, there were violations in All Chat.
Shard -- you have a long list of violations on your account, including 3 previous marks for racist language (in All Chat), 2 for offensive language (in All Chat), several offensive names, and some other violations as well. So whatever happened today -- and I think it was the 4th incident of racist chat that was the trigger -- the "Breach of the User Agreement" message probably refers to the fact that there are so many marks on the account which can lead to actions "up to and including account termination." I think that most players would agree that the only prejudice shown here is a natural and understandable prejudice against players who continue to breach the rules. I don't know of any other game company that would give a player so many "second chances."
Guys who are asking -- the team doesn't make a habit of checking private messages, and unless someone or some incident is reported, I don't see where they would. Now, if an incident is reported then the research on that incident may glean other information, too. Still, my instinct is that if the only thing that was exposed in a review was whispered chat, and if the other people involved (like the target of the whispers, other people in Party Chat, etc.) didn't report it, action wouldn't be taken on the account. Edit to add: Like Poke (above), I believe that the User Agreement would allow action to be taken in any variant, and I am not making a guarantee that action will not be taken. I am speaking casually here and don't want to give the impression I'm stating official policy or practice.. (Thanks for understanding that.)
And seriously, if anyone has information on people who are admitting to RMT or scamming, I hope they will report to support as well. -- Gaile 04:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
"Adrin -- it wasn't just whispers, there were violations in All Chat" I asked for game logs. There was no racial slurs in all chat given. all i was provided with by support was when i said the f-word in global chat. that's not why i was banned, nor was reported for. it's just very coincidental that 2 of the players on the anet s**tlist get blocks. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 06:05, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
It's even more coincidental that one of them isn't given a reason, then the reason you make up is "you got banned because you got banned before." ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 06:12, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm surprised they actually give reasons for their bans, they're not obliged to. (Terra Xin 08:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC))

(Reset indent) I'm sorry for the wall and consider this closed if you do as well Gaile. I dont see this going any farther on the wiki, just in circles.--adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 08:26, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Moral of the story: Anet censors every bit of common chitter-chatter between friends in PRIVATE messaging. Start speaking formal and do not even use loose insults on anyone you see.Pika Fan 08:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Note to other people anet singles out for bans: Don't use in game chat at all. It's evident Anet doesn't want anyone to play their game. Should have saved myself time and quit when nightfall came out. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 08:31, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Is Anet now run by the same stooges that run Neopets dual wielding ban hammers?71.174.21.121 20:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
is this real i know poeple with more ingame violations then shard that are still playing this all seems like there trying to censor shards voice --Aura 13:14, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
If you know people with a large number of in-game violations who are still playing the game, hopefully they will have straightened out and decided not to continue whatever they were doing. Otherwise, it may be only a matter of time until they get tagged with "Repeated Violation" and removed from the game.
Some people -- not many, but a noticeable few -- use enforcement of the Rules of Conduct like a revolving door. You know the sort, the ones who make a career of breaching the rules with hate speech, harassment, scamming, unacceptable name use, RMT activity... In the interests of improving the game experience for the vast majority of players, repeated violators can and will be removed. That policy is reasonable, and I'm sure it isn't a surprise to anyone. -- Gaile 18:56, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Chat violations are minor. Anet GMs need to focus on banning RMT and botters instead of wasting time nitpicking on minor rule violations. Go balance the game. Spend time improving your skills. Go get a job at Blizzard. Go do something PRODUCTIVE with your lives instead of sitting behind a desk all day clicking the ban button like a bot. It's obvious why Anet doesn't have any resources left, they squander them all in stupid ways like this. No one should EVER be permanently banned for chat violations unless

they are advertising RMT or hacksites. I'm not offended easily, and I expect everyone else to have the same tolerance. This game is rated T for Teen, not C for Carebear. Carebears can go to neopets for all I care. If you don't like someone's bad language, pr0t1p: use teh ignore list.

This topic ends here. Once said I would do anything I can to defend, protect and rectify Shard and Adrin's actions, however, this situation has gone too far to where even I can't smooth over the bumps, and my association with them has put my own moral values in question. This is something both of them have brought upon themselves, and regardless of what brought them under the microscope, who was wronging who or if they are guilty or innocent of the circumstances of the ban is completely irrelevant. They broke a rule, they used language deemed a violation by Anet and as such, they are to be punished as Anet sees fit. This statement is not an appeal to their ban, but rather a white flag of truce that their punishment is, in some ways fitting.
While I do not personally feel Shard and Adrin purposely or intentionally "harass" other players or staff...I can clearly see how their actions and attitude can be viewed that way without delving deeply into what they say, dissecting each word in detail...which no one would actually do, and is unreasonable to require. I can say, with due honesty, that their behavior on the wiki can and does make them appear "capable" of harassment...particularly towards Izzy Cartwright, Kim Chase and Regina B. Shard and Adrin have made their disdain clear from the start in regard to how the game has been managed and handled. And while many players mimic their sense of outrage, Auron particularly, the issue, as Auron has said to me, is the "verbiage" the boys choose, and the lack of precision in which they formulate their ideas into words. I can see how their actions on the wiki can make Anet staff members "uncomfortable" and how this can violate the EULA as it relates to treatment of the company staff, which makes no difference if the wiki is in game or not.
What the boys consider a "joke" or see as “sarcasm” others do not take lightly and see as cruel, mean or insulting. The lack of consideration and care utilized by them for their arguments is obviously a major problem. I have called them both "radicals" in the past, comparatively to the Jane Fonda "Hanoi Jane" archetype--where being strident and shrill in your desire to create reform can harm you without self control…it is evident and reasonable to feel that the way you say something is just as important as whether it is right or wrong, and considering that issues of balance are a "Nixon's Blacklist" topic, and them being over the top in their approach of the issue has earned them a deserved spot on that type of list. Shard and Adrin's aggressive manner was not intended to be personal towards you Gaile, or Izzy, Kim and Regina, it was intended to make the point that, for whatever reason, they felt that the customer was being disregarded, that they game was being ruined, that no one cared or listened and they took it upon themselves make their feelings known as loudly as they could, in anyway possible that would draw attention, even if that meant not professional, tactful or respectful in their arguments--this manner of activity built them both a very negative reputation on the wiki, in game and apparently to the staff at Arena Net.
That being said, I am big enough to admit both defeat and accountability, even if they do not. Thank you for your time Gaile.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 23:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Anyone who QQs over mere insults and well-earned sarcasm/satire needs to go play neopets. If I get insulted, I go offline or "do not disturb". If it's really a problem I use the ignore list. Permanent bans should only be handed out in severe rule violations, not as revenge. What's happened to Shard is not "punishment for rule violations." It's clearly "Vengeful Was Anet" acting like a bunch of 10 year old kids starting fights over insults. Anyway, this is making Anet look incredibly unprofessional. I will most certainly NOT be purchasing any products from them until they show a lot of improvement.72.71.232.80 04:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I may be missing a point here, but when I see something like this: "3 previous marks for racist language (in All Chat), 2 for offensive language (in All Chat), several offensive names, and some other violations as well. ", I know a perma-ban is coming. If one does not realize after five bans for offensive/racist language, maybe they should not be on the game. A blunt perspective, but its been bothering me for a while. -- Wandering Traveler 05:03, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps that works on a forum, but Build Wars is... well I think it was SUPPOSED to be a game but I can't tell anymore... but it's not a forum. On a game, you don't ban people for bad language, instead you ban players that jerk the guild ladder around, you ban botters, you ban RMTs, and you ban people that impersonate the staff.
I'm sorry, but I have not received that many bans/warnings. In fact, the email I got from support said I have 11 violations (which i know is not true). So Gaile said I have 5 plus "other violations", the email said 11, but in real life I've had 4. I know accounts that have a lot of bans can get permanently blocked, but 4 is not that many, and I did not think "hell yeah" in all chat warranted a ban (that's what support said I got banned for). ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 05:32, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Permabans are not warranted for anything less than harassment with previous warning in terms of chatting with people. Not basing this on opinion but basing this on the general policy of freedom of speech. Yeah yeah, it doesn't necessarily apply when you have EULAs and Policies set blah blah blah. But be warned if support actually is going to nit pick bs like this. I'll go ahead and put in tickets for every legitimate offense I can find, so that Guild Wars and this wiki are better suited for the masses. Oh wait! The masses curse, use racial slurs, and say things that are offensive in jest all the time. Darn I guess ANet will run out of people to play their game(s) with all these multi-day bans and permabans going around (some of which are based on postings on the wiki, which is not violating game rules). Guess we'll all have to find a company besides NCSoft who accepts the way people talk, jest, and give out reasonable bans for chat offenses. If your willing to throw away accounts that are as old as the game people are willing to do the same to you.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 05:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Shard -- We seem to have some issues with misinformation. Support's? Yours? Mine? I'm not sure, but I'm willing to help sort it out. I ask -- consider it a challenge -- to see the Support response that tells you you were blocked for saying, "hell yeah." Because in fact you were blocked for using a racial epithet in All Chat. Several times. :( And I am going to boldly state that you were told that, by the very topic that you chose to use in starting this thread.
If you argue you have not been blocked 11 times -- which is the number I see, too -- I could have an explanation: If you're blocked for, say, 72 hours, but you don't try logging in for a week, you might not even know you've been blocked. But Shard, you have to know about the name blocks, because you were required to rename those characters. I just disbelieve that you honestly think you've only have 4 marks on your account.
Sins -- That is precisely what happened. Therefore, you have no room for objection on any of the grounds you cite, or any reasonable grounds whatsoever. -- Gaile 05:48, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Time to start being a jackass in game then by reporting people for such minor infractions, yes I would be the jackass for reporting people and not the people I am reporting. Though some of them might warrant being called jackasses. I expect everyone including myself to be banned for days on end and eventually permabanned for chat infractions. Enjoy your slowly dwindling numbers and lowering in reputation as a whole. NOW THAT is conspiring against you, not what shard and adrin do.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 06:01, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Hyperbole is dangerous when used in excess. You sound just like Shard or Adrin now...how disappointing. Vili >8< User talk:Vili 06:04, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Crucifixion is more disappointing~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 06:16, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
For the love of Jesus, please don't martyr yourself. --TalkRiddle 06:23, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Not exactly what I meant. People have already been crucified on this wiki, I wouldn't be surprised if I get added to the list. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:The Sins We Die By (talk).
Yasmin, I've seldom read a more well-written and thoughtful post. If everyone expressed him- or herself so clearly, and with such fairness -- and I do not mean by the position taken, but simply by the clarity and the even and informative tone used -- we could make great strides towards better and more reasonable communication. I'm glad you added your comments. -- Gaile 05:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I consider it more of a challenge to find out why I'm being persecuted and others are being favored. I'm still having too much fun with the support tickets to reveal them right now. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 20:18, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I gotta admit, adrin seems pretty hard done by... Naturally, when judgement is to be executed, it is incredibly stupid to use someone's reputation as a means of punishing them for an incredibly minor infraction (here I am talking about adrin; this is also relevant to Shard's issue [I thought account marks were removed after sometime? Obviously not]). Of course, then, if that occurs, punishments are then going to be handed out on the basis (not wholly, but with a large influence) of how much someone is liked (or, rather, disliked). This has already been mentioned previously, but wiki crimes should have no bearing on the GW law, and vice versa. If that starts to happen (which it seems it has, based on how Yasmin explained to us that it was Shard and adrin's reputation that put the final nail in the coffin, so to speak), then some licensing agreements need to be rewritten concerning issues that arising here and now: actions on the wiki can affect your GW account.
I am not saying their actions on the wiki were the sole reason, but as I said earlier, the reputation they have built up on the wiki seems to have played a big part in influencing Support's decision, which shouldn't happen. Then we begin to play favourites.King Neoterikos 23:43, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Support's decision and the reason for monitoring the two of them and their in game chat logs, I am inclined to believe, is not because of their wiki reputation per se, but rather that they have a reputation of "harrassing" staff members of Anet through the wiki with the past use of, what has been considered, "innapropriate comments", "attacks", and "verbal abuse" particularly towards Regina, Izzy and Kim Chase. I apoligize for not making that clear in my earlier post, I merely implied it as the comment was more meant for Gaile and Regina than anyone else...particularly in the last few weeks I could tell Regina was growing somewhat distraut by the two of them being "rude" on her page. As soon as Regina made a that comment about them being disrespectful to her, I had a feeling the banstick was in the air, and I made it clear to Shard and Adrin to be on their best behavior, and bless their hearts they tried...Adrin in particular, who even attempted to make a formal apology to Regina via email. Though the "harassment" I feel was not intentional and a misunderstanding, as I stated above, none the less, it certainly made Adrin and Shard an issue for staff members, and I can understand Anets concerns and discomfort with the two of them still playing the game. While wiki reputation should be dealt with only on the wiki, the matter of staff members feeling threatened I can see as a viable EULA issue and a trigger to watch their in game behavior to see if they act similarly in game.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 00:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I can see how the wiki can project Shard and me as aggressive against staff members of anet. Regina has made that to me very clearly, stating that she has, "Tolerated my crap for a long time." I'm sorry but that's a little offensive to me as well, but I didn't call out the lack of professionalism, as if a customer was giving me a hard time, I would take it. That's her job, to deal with the community's praise and frustration. I have not called her a retarded zoo monkey or anything, but the time for tact was gone after Izzy left. You should not judge us by how we act here, and then assume that we are harassing people in game. The wiki and Guild Wars are 2 entirely different mediums for conversation. We are not harassing towards players. Stating that Shard has 11 marks on his account is just trying to make people think that he has been banned so many times, that he deserves the ban. No, he has been banned 4 times, none for harassment. I understand that you are trying to explain his violations in detail, but giving out that kind of information about his account is borderline on his privacy, and should have been taken to a more secure place. My frustration, Gaile, is that the people I made those pm's to pm the same type of material and the same words back to me, and that they are my guild members alliance members and friends, and if such an investigation was going to be taken on my account, it should have also shown that these players are on my friends lists, in my guild/alliance, and how much time I spend grouping with them. Plus, they should also look at conversations we have that are not using those words and are quite friendly. One of the violation examples I was given was when I said, "That a**hole f**ked up your tux order again at the store." If they only read a few lines farther they would see that this person is coming to my freakin wedding! Why would I harass that person? The other person I was apparently harassing, will talk with me in friendly conversations. Also, some of the whispers were between Shard and me. If the wiki conversations are going to hold influence in our banned, can you seriously think that I would harass Shard??? They need to read the context if they are going to use bans like this. It feels suspicious that Shard and I were the only ones banned and only our side of the conversations were taken into consideration. The other person who was saying the same stuff back to me was not included in the consideration of bans. I'm sorry if this isn't as kindly written as my wife's but you should know this by now. It's not anger, it's frustration. Those are 2 different emotions. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 21:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I ask you, Gaile, in the spirit of fairness, why haven't you banned everyone else who's said "hell" in all chat? Go to Heroes' Ascent, international district 1, get a piece of paper and a pencil, then start taking notes on how many people use four letter words in all chat, including hell and damn. You wouldn't have to be there longer than ten minutes to get twenty names. It would be far more productive than stalking specific individuals for things they say in guild chat to people who don't mind when they curse. I'd also ask you to fix the game and actually deal with non-imaginary problems, but you've been avoiding that for the past four years so I won't bother. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 22:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't think Gaile deserves ANY of the abuse leveled at her. She is here only to try to help, she is one of Anet's faces, not one of its heads. Also, she is not responsible for improving GW1, that's (poor overworked) Linsey's job. I think some of the folks here should be blocked from wiki. I know that in the old (unofficial) wiki, people were blocked for far less. I'm disappointed to see the lack of respect here. It's a game, folks, it's a GAME. It is not the "Global Commission on Alternative Energy Sources", or the "Foreign Commission on Nuclear Proliferation". Find another game, and have fun darn it. :) Otherwise what should be a pleasant pastime becomes a dangerous obssession that consumes your life. 189.33.64.191 14:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Normally I wouldn't have a problem with Gaile, but you don't know enough details about this situation to understand peoples frustration. We know "its a game" and bans happen. The bigger issue is that people are being made example of because they question and ANet's actions. Not just that they question them but how vocal they are about it. Following policies leads to incredibly slow progression in changes that need to be made. Saying something once and expecting it to be dealt with is just naive. Saying something in a carebear fashion pointing it out to be a major issue that is being overlooked and expecting it to be taken care of is also naive. Being blunt, direct and assertive gets the point across. Also it's not the fact that it's a game that is the problem, it's the fact that it's a game where time spent can't (feasibly) be reimbursed. Adrin's ban is more of a warning to shut up, while shard is viewed as the source of the problem. So they permaban him and tempban adrin, for what? Saying how they feel and coming across as disrespectful? Permaban is the most extreme punishment in the realm of online gaming, take the real world most etreme punishment. Would you apply that for being disrespectful? It's the principle that is being argued here not the fact that they can't and haven't already moved on to other games. By the way Gaile is not perfect nor is Linsey, they at least communicate with the community here though which is awesome, but they are both open to be scrutinized for their own mistakes as well as those they represent.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 18:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
So lemme get this traight. It's just a game, but you're comparing bans to real world extreme punishment (i'd imagine you're thinking of life imprisonment or death penalty). You say you don't have a problem with Gaile but you harass and insult her. Your argument is basically that you need to be rude in order to get anything done. Really? Well, I don't think so sorry. Not only is it a game, it's ANET's game, and in their view, these fellas have broken rules. You break a rule, you get punished. If they don't agree, they can stop playing - that is the most extreme thing THEY can do - they can punish Anet for not being customers anymore. They can conceivably try to convince others to do the same. Me? I like the game a lot and I understand gw1 is more or less done with. I'll wait for gw2 with patience and optimism. 189.33.64.191 19:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
IP you really don't get the issue Shard and I have with this, you're just trying to argue with us. If you read the whole wall and see the real message, then you can throw in some comments but please don't start this into something negative again thank you. --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 20:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Right, I did read the entire wall so I'll throw in some comments. It IS ANet's game. You did break the EULA. You got punished. The best way to get something done is NOT to be rude but to be polite. I have had some minor issues with ANet in the past, one of which was justified. I accepted the punishment and sent polite appeals about the other and in all cases ANet resolved the issue. Maybe the entire problem you got now is because of your view you have to be rude to get things done. I'm sorry but that's not the way the world works. If ANet is trying to get rid of you the question is not "Can they do that?", the question is "Why do they want to do that?". Yes, they can do it and it seems rather obvious to me why they would want it. Even so, I do not even for a second think Gaile would lie about the amount of account marks on Shard's account and that he simply had it coming. I do not agree with every bit of ANet policy but it's your own fault you can't work things out with ANet after the way you treated them. HeavenMonkey 20:52, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not going to continue this with anyone other than the person to whom is was intended to. Gaile I hope you can look at my previous statement and give me a response. Thanks --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 21:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
You clearly did not, because if you did, you would have known that they broke the EULA chatting with people they know and are friendly with. Context also should matter when considering for bans; lots of people shit talk their friends, strange but true. It's their way of showing their affection and most aren't offended because they aren't petty like you. Flipping through your past contributions show the exact same ignorance, be it commenting on topics you didn't read properly, or trying to stick your finger into pies way past your league. Either wise up, or don't post at all. Pika Fan 21:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your honest opinion Pika Fan, but Gaile clearly stated they were banned / suspended for using inappropriate in All Chat which may or may not have included friends but doesn't exclude the rest of the people in the outpost. I'm not a fan of the "inappropriate language" policy but it's still policy and they broke it. My main point however was that you should not be rude to get across your points since it simply doesn't work. If you disagree that's your right but I would appreciate you not dictate me what my league is. // HeavenMonkey Image:User HeavenMonkey signature.png 22:17, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Using All chat in the comfort of your own guild hall is also All chat. Also, complicated things like this are clearly way past your league, and it's dictated by yourself, not others. "Okay, bite my head of, but I think gold sellers are good for Guild Wars IF, and only if, they get banned. I wouldn't expect gold sellers to stop so they have to buy a new account, which fills Arenanet's treasury. As long as they keep getting banned and get new accounts, they could pay a (relatively) large percentage of the expenses. HeavenMonkey 19:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)" I really hoped you were joking there, but apparently not, because you seem convinced that you are cleverer than you think you are. Pika Fan 22:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
That doesn't relate to this topic and you're just using it for a cheap shot. Cut that out sir. 99.144.234.76 22:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, it matters. If the poster is a perpetual fool, I have every right to point out logic leaps in whatever he says. Pika Fan 02:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Way to go offtopic. I'll gladly have an in-depth analasys about that comment on my talk page. However, as I said, my main point was not to be rude to get what you want. And you're absolutely right All chat can be in a Guild Hall. If that's the case the support staff will know. As I said the ANet staff has always resolved issues I had with them in a satisfactory manner. If they are not doing it for another person then I trust they have a good reason for it. Being rude to get what you want won't help anyway. Now since that's what I was saying I would appreciate if you comment on that and not on my cleverness and/or league. // HeavenMonkey Image:User HeavenMonkey signature.png 23:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me? Please actually read what has been posted here. Anet has a history of "targetting" people they don't like. They are also known to NOT even remember what was written in the EULA or in-game policies, as seen from an SS about a GM not correctly stating how dishonor works. Also, it has been clearly stated that Shard + Adrin have been banned for shit talking to their friends. Being retarded just to fan flames in a topic you basically tl;dr is, as earlier stated, retarded. Yasmin has a record of being one of the most reasonable person on this site, and unlike you, an anet fanboi who thinks that support in every game are fair and unbiased. If you can't post with a single shred of common sense, don't. You are just provoking flames and escalating the issue.Pika Fan 02:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Just for clarification, and I am going off the emails from NSSoft, which I was given copies of by the boys...Shard's ban was for "global chat" and he said "hell yeah" in our Guild Hall and something about "every shitty player has a tiger now" or something to that effect, I know this because the chat log contained whole conversation between him and myself minus my pieces of the conversation. The other portion for Shard was 3 whispers to Adrin where he called Adrin a bad word 3 times in all caps when they were playing in pre-sear together farming alcohol for me from Nicholas & Yakkington. Adrin's was for racial slurs, and the chat logs were from discussions he had with 3 friends on 3 different days--the 10th, 11 and 14th. One of the friends involved was Pm'd on 3 different character names, but its the same person, one was Shard and was the same chat that Shard was banned for, and one to another friend. the email said "The infraction was reported and substantiated through our logs"...this statement is why the boys feel targeted.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* Image:User_yasmin_parvaneh_sig.png 23:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
HeavenMonkey and anyone else who wants to know some more about the situation can look at this. And ANet devs need to watch Gran Torino and see how many people talk to each other.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 02:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Don't bother. Anet fanboys like HeavenMonkey won't believe anything that paints anet as the one at fault, not even with concrete evidence. Pika Fan 02:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Heaven, I did not break the EULA for this most recent ban. Thanks for trying though. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 03:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Pika, if you actually read what I said you may have seen I was disagreeing with the philosophy of being rude to get what you want. Besides that I also jumped to the conclusion it's Shard's and Arin's own fault for not being able to work things out with ANet. If they were explicitly being monitored that is a strange story but I would start with the question why ANet felt the need to monitor them. I'm sorry if you think I'm insane for thinking ANet is actually a fair company. Again, I don't agree with all of ANet policy and profanity between friends isn't something I would ban for. It just doesn't sound surprising to me a company would be less inclined to work out issues with persons insulting members of their staff. // HeavenMonkey Image:User HeavenMonkey signature.png 13:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Nice try at damage control and doing a 180 degree turnaround from what you originally said. You did break the EULA. You got punished. HeavenMonkey Nowhere on this page were shard and adrin specifically rude, the closest you can claim "rude behaviour" is their frustrated tone, and if you were being unfairly targetted by anet you would probably do the same. Pika Fan 01:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
It's amazing that permabans are such a hot topic right now. Half of gaile's pages seem like they are about bans. This header alone takes up at least a fifth of her page at this moment in time. Wonder why they are so ban happy all of the sudden, and if it's bad now imagine how it will get after they get people's money for storage tabs (actually character slots and accounts bcs anyone who thinks can see getting those is a better value).~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 18:10, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Storage tabs are not about value, but about convenience, and getting Anet some fresh $ flow. It's been a while since they released anything new you had to pay for. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 18:46, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
(WAY OFF-TOPIC AND PURE CONJECTURE ENSUES)They could be bot banning due to the free storage promotion. The storage promotion may involve getting "X" item from "Y" Monster, which has a (too small of a percentage to be expressed in billionths) chance of dropping. Preemptively ban the bots to ensure everyone has a fair chance. --TalkRiddle 04:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a tad bit late to this, but I've been banned quite a few times for ridiculous reasons. I don't particularly mind being banned, as I can spend less time actually playing the game, but my problem stems from the length of the bans. Honestly, 340 hours for language? Or racial slurs? I DIDN'T USE A SINGLE SLUR. I used a Buddhist symbol that resembles a swastika in a Japanese RA district, and I was banned for racism. Then my second ban was for abusive language. I'm sorry, but Anet is really dropping the ball with its customer care lately. I'm really debating on quitting Guild Wars now. If a game that I've invested hundreds upon hundreds of hours in, not to mention spent hundreds of dollars on, bans me for something this...well stupid, then I must do something. Either unban me or give me a fucking refund. I may only be an IP, but I do have a face. Here I am. Thank you and fuck whoever said I should be banned at the Anet offices. 99.53.160.225 15:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Additionally, why have a language filter in a video game, where you can still be banned for inappropriate language? Isn't that a tad contradictory? 99.53.160.225 15:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
A few things you got wrong:
1: Their customer care hasn't been failing lately - that's just how it usually is.
2: Typing anything on your keyboard is a racial slur to somebody on the planet, and you can get banned for it.
3: The language filter isn't meant to be used, that's why they put it in the game. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 04:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Suggestions:
1: Send the support for Build Wars to India or something.
2: Let's all type in gobbledygook. Sort of like this: "bdgrtjkojkavdfsbhkluiuopads,.cvx jmasdffg" Anet obviously approves of it since that's how they come up with their boss names.
3: Smiter's Boon and For Great Justice aren't meant to be used, that's why they are in the game.
The thing I do find funny about this thread is that it's gunna go longer than my ban which is up in 8 hours lol --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 17:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Mine still hasn't been lifted, so I'll probably qq here for a while. Also why'd my IP get banned for vandalism? I haven't been near this site since my last post. 99.53.160.225 17:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
@Adrin: It turned into an issue about both of our bans.
@IP: IP addresses are not unique, someone else probably vandalized on that IP. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 04:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Is anyone at support looking into this? I've been emailing them asking for legitimate reasons for my ban, but they haven't come up with any. If you can convince people that using profanities with only my friends present is somehow harming people I never talk to, I will accept the ban and fly away on a winged pig. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 03:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Breaking a wall of text as this is going on for an age and a half. Tell me, Gaile, since when did people get jailed for life for shit talking their friends, as their friends are fine with it? It's a teen rated game, for christs sakes. Isn't it about time you guys at Arenanet dropped the carebear attitude and accepted that the freaking swear filter is in the game for a reason? Seriously, manhours should be put into banning botters, not people that can easily be sorted with an optional chat filter and the ignore list. Seriously, its getting ridiculous. Oh, I guess I'm now on ANet's shitlist of 'next critic to be banned'. Shard, Adrin, I recommend you both make a huge stink on all of the major guild wars fansites. This bias has gone on for too long. 82.34.128.19 14:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Naming Policy

First of all I want to say that I created this thread so that we could have a civil discussion and address the flaws in the current naming policy. Flaming and blatant violations of GWW:NPA are not going to help you get your point across, so don't do it. I understand Gaile's point, this is an international game and things like this have to be dealt with so that no one is offended, which is fine. One of the main flaws that I see in the current policy is the lack of warning that guilds receive when something like this happens. Often times, offensive guild tags or names are intentional and I can see why the ordeal with [SuKa] may have been considered intentional. I am not arguing that the guild tag [SuKa] shouldn't have been censored, because it should have been censored. However, when this happens I do not think that ArenaNet should jump to conclusions and automatically assume that the tag and/or name was intentional. They should censor the tag and/or name and notify the guild leader of the problem and request that it is changed in a certain amount of time (I would think 48 - 72 hours would be a good window), if the guild does not comply within the set amount of time, then they should ban all guild operations and do what they are doing now. I think that this avenue would work for situations such as this. Any thoughts? --Shadowphoenix 20:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Guild leaders do not have the ability to rename or re-tag a guild. GMs do not have the ability to rename or re-tag guilds. The only option is to block the guild and have them reform. We would like to have tools to improve that, but there is no timeline for the addition, testing, and roll-out of such tools. I cannot say even that they will be developed, only that they have been requested.
In the meantime, we do not have a "warning" system, because warnings are meaningless when the name and tag cannot be changed. We do not have a warning system for character names because we feel it is addressed with the current Support practices, as explained in the Conduct Beaches and Outcomes document. -- Gaile 20:54, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
May I ask if notification is sent out explaining why the guild tag and/or name has been censored and explaining that the guild needs to be reformed? --Shadowphoenix 21:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
An in-game notification is provided, and the guild leader is welcome to (I believe actually invited to) contact Support if he/she has concerns or questions. Support does not proactively send out information about the blocks and bans in our game -- the sheer volume (when you consider hundreds of RMT blocks a week, etc.) would be ponderous and would take away from time better used in other ways. However, the team is always more than happy to respond to questions that may arise. (That is policy with the majority of games with which I am familiar, btw.) -- Gaile 21:12, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I really appreciate the quick and lengthy responses. With any hope, a way will be developed to change guild names and tags. Hopefully this will be a feature in Guild Wars 2. Thank you for your time :) --Shadowphoenix 23:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
You're very welcome, and thanks for asking questions that I'm sure a lot of people want to know more about. I'm up for any discussion about our policies and practices, and am happy to explain how things function from a Support standpoint. I'm up for suggestions, too, and wishes for future features that would help us make Support even better. I just ask that -- as you suggested at the outset -- we keep it civil and productive. When that's the case, it's a win/win, and I'm more than happy to participate. Even, often, on my own time. :) -- Gaile 05:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'd like to ask something. I know there's a list of words that are banned when creating characters. Does this list work when creating guilds? And does the list contain only English words? — Poki#3 My Talk Page :o 01:42, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Or how about making English the official language of Build Wars and everyone has to conform to that standard?72.71.232.80 04:42, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Forcing your chinese players to learn a language of little use to them in order to play is not a good marketing strategy. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 05:28, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Most accounts that log in from China are probably bots or RMTs anyway.72.64.14.203 14:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, let's ban China... not. Let's not continue this and get back to my original question. — Poki#3 My Talk Page :o 16:37, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Why not? It would get rid of most of the RMT, bots, and gold spammers that plague the game.
While we're at it, let's ban all of Europe too, for being terrible at PvP. Vili >8< User talk:Vili 22:26, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Just France and Germany should do it. 99.142.42.232 23:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Recent Unjust Ban Code 045

Hi Gaile I hope I've done this correct never have been on here before and never thought I would..on Friday morning I was playing my account and got kicked figuring it was just my junk server but uppon relogging I got a code 045 message something that I didn't know before friday, anyways it said that I was terminated for using a bot and/or third party program, now I don't know what the heck they are talking but I've been playing this game for 3 yrs and have never needed or wanted to use anything like this all I do is farm and greenie hunt mostly. I do my missions and all when the hunting slacks off so that it reset the areas that I am in all the time, I've made it a goal of mine to get all greenies from the Kourna area and have been hitting the Estate pretty hard trying to get that last greenie from the Hacket Boss and of course no luck I've been getting all the other boss greenies....but as I was saying I don't need that stuff to get what I want I have recently become handicapped meaning I have alot of time on my hands and primise ya I'm the one playing not some bot or anything else from what I've read here on your page that ppl do...Heck it took me 2 yrs lol to relize that a warrior has to be more then just a warrior. I've also made it a goal to have greenie weapons on all my heroes and that's what started my greenie hunting(Tho wish there were better swords droped) With out Vamp on them...anyhow can you plz help me resolve this matter because I truely don't know what I've done to deserve this I don't talk to many ppl(ppl I do talk to are family and guild members) so don't think I did anything that way. Thx Gorball --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.175.230.38 (talk).

She can't help you unless she knows who you are (submit a support ticket to NCSoft first). ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 03:50, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh ok I did that already wasn't sure if I was to place it here or not ...but thx for setting me striaght

Question Reference #090418-000055 Thx again Gorball Warrior God

I'm sorry to hear about your handicap. I hope this gets resolved justly. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Thx but it's just one of those things...work hard and play hard all your life and it'll catch ya in your later yrs..I hope so too cuz I'll be danged if I know what they are referring to I'm too old to be learning those new tricks, tho I would like to know how your suppose to detect these things like they keep asking for ppl to report them heck I wouldn't know one to see one lol Thx Gorball
I didn't post here during the time I was reviewing this, but I know the team took another look and I am happy to see that everything sorted out just fine for you, Gorball. :) -- Gaile 02:59, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Banned since Easter weekend. Please help.

On Easter monday, i was logged into GW, running a mission when i was suddenly Disconnected.

On trying to relog in i recieved and error code=45. your account has been banned for using a bot or other third party program.

I've been through support, and there only reply to me was that due to the depth of analys my case would remain closed, i tried responding again, with a plea to please just look into my account actions, that they would surely find that i am innocent of the charges against me, and they flatly refuse.

I have Never used a bot or third party program, ive been a member of Guild wars for over a year, i have all the campains, i have bought extra character slots, and the bonus mission pack.

I have 15k armor on all my characters and most of them have completed the game.

one day while buying armor for one of my character i saw someone with a title, "people know me" and i asked my boyfriend what that title was from, and we looked it up. from that moment on, it was a hard drive for me and him to get god walking amongst mere mortals.

Ive been off work for months now due to medical problems, and my only outlet really has been GuildWars. id play mornings and evenings with my boyfriend, maxing out titles, doing missions, vanuishing,and farm while watching tv and talking to him on msn while he was at work, til he came home and we'd get back to missions, and we finally made it to 23 titles. i finally realized, that to get that specific title maxed i was going to have to go for sugar or party animal. and lo and behold this special drop weekend came up, where sugar points would drop. I farmed hard while i had the chance.

during the weekend we put missions aside, and all i did was farm, when he got home from work he joined me, and we farmed together as a team taking turns running into the raptor pit and chatting on skype til bedtime, waking up the next day and doing it all again til the weekend was over, all in all i made enough sugar points , plus the ones he got he gave me, to get me almost halfway to the title, and i used the rest of the money id been saving from vanquishing to buy as much as i could til i was broke, exausted and half blind.

the next morning, we logged back in to go finish the last few missions we had left to do for legendary guardian, and i was clicking my eggs out in the field, when i got the log out screen.

I guess what this is, is an appeal for you to just look into my actions, My keystrokes, my chat log, anything you can do if possible to see that i am innocent, not a bot, just a very dedicated player, who gets excited and plays too hard.

I know that support has said this case is closed, its just a bitter pill to swallow after putting so much work into something thats become to mean so much to me, and have it taken away in a flash, with no apeal, no recourse, no mercy.

Thank you for anything you can do, if anything. my support ticket is Reference #090413-001726 and my boyfriends support ticket number is Incident: 090418-001257

Edited to add... yeah im an idiot, i dont know why this post made wierd boxes and the page so wide :( im sorry, can someone fix it for me? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Katy (talk).

Those boxes were caused by putting a space at the start of every line. Looks like Wizardboy777 has fixed it for you. :-) Good luck with your appeal, sounds like a nightmare! Biscuits Image:User Biscuits sig.png 07:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Reading all these appeals makes me scared. I've invested a lot of time and money into GW, and I too go into "bot-mode" often because of my remaining titles. I never used any programs, not even TexMod for cartographer, which I already maxed. But hearing all these reports makes me scared now... I better not use my sweets all at once or sit in town clicking an ale every minute for hours on end... :( I hope your case gets resolved fairly. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 18:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
It is a disturbing trend that more and more permanent bans are being made on the basis of superficial behavior. Or perhaps it's always been that way, but more people know who to complain to now? 99.144.234.76 18:26, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
When they realize it starts affecting their sales they might start to change things. Or maybe NC Soft will step in and straighten them out before that happens.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 18:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
NCSoft is the entity that hands out the bans. 99.144.234.76 18:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
NC Soft hands out the bans on the reports they recieve. How ANet presents that information sways whether people are banned or not.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 18:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Also yes people know who to complain to now. Which means they are more under the microscope from the player base and should act as such. Right now their rep looks incredibly bad bcs of people who are getting their accounts banned unjustly, it's their own fault.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 18:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

RI. Reading all these complaints about being banned unjustly makes me worry about the upcoming GW birthday celebrations. Whenever there is an event, I tend to farm constantly without taking a break for many many hours on end. I am starting to get scared that I would want to log on the 3rd day of the bday celebrations only to find out my acc banned for botting >_<. I would never use any of those programs, simply because I think it's cheating, and because it'll get your acc banned. Stupidest thing to do IMHO. Anyways, just a bit concerned here that making a difference between hardcore players and bots is obviously difficult. :( -- Minami Kaori

Is that what this bot thing is that they are talking abt ppl that farm for many hrs? cuz if so that's bull, how else are you to make enough gold points to by the over inflated elite armors that are out there...Like Vabbi and Obsidian one at 191K and other well over 253K when you add Mats and gold and I was saving up for my next toon to get Vabbi and my Derv Ancient :( this sucks if that's the case what you have to take a break everytime they send you that ever so anoying message telling you that you've been playing for 2 or 3 plz take a break hmmmm....Gorball
zkeys say hi -Auron 06:13, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
From XTH? 130k/mo is was nice. But it really doesn't compare to what people make farming during event weekends. 15k per person (5 paying people) per run (~an hour) for Shards of Orr? Win. I wonder if it's possible to bot that... Not that, y'know, I would ever consider that. Raine - talk 07:22, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
130 per account per month. That's plenty of money for "the over inflated elite armors that are out there...Like Vabbi and Obsidian one at 191K and other well over 253K when you add Mats and gold." -Auron 09:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I failed to consider multiple accounts, which was a silly mistake. :( Raine - talk 11:07, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

In the down time while we've been waiting for this to be looked into and resolved, I've grown more curious about the process used to discover who is a bot and who is not. Is it all automated, or is it based off of people using the /report feature of the game? The reason I wonder is that I've been playing with Katy here since the day I talked her into downloading Guild Wars, we've done all the same things as a team, but I've never been suspected of botting. We're both a little anti-social at times so we avoid large groups when we can, usually just playing with eachother and our heroes, but we've beaten the stuffing out of this game together, everything from the northern wall to duncan the black. Farming is a chore, but needed if you want to own the nicer things in the game without having to spend a year saving up funds from normal play. I have a problem with my attention span that won't let me do it endlessly, but I can still put in a good several hours before all the other shiny things around me distract me and drag me off in a random direction.

I imagine it can't have much to do with the time spent online, as I've had the warning flash across my screen before that I have been playing for two days and to please take a break, lol. Granted, a lot of the hours in those instances were spent passed out getting waffle face from my keyboard, but I've still spent days on end without logging out before. I also imagine it can't be a lack of chat, because yeah I am anti-social at the best of times and have gone weeks before without typing a single thing to anyone in this game. At times I turn off all the chats while I play just to keep from getting spammed by all the WTB and emote pollution.

I guess what I am getting at is, after this is resolved and we start playing again, how can we safeguard against this mistake ever happening again? Are there things we could do to show we aren't bots while we game? Do we have to make random chat remarks every time we come into town to empty our bags? Should we take leeches with us when we farm so we aren't just running in and out solo? Should we break into random /dance in the field after defeating the broodmother and getting her green claws for the millionth time? What things can a player do that a bot wouldn't, that would keep us safe from being flagged? It's a slow process getting these things cleared up once they do happen, and as tense and depressing as this down time has been, I know I never want to have it happen again, either to her or myself. So how can we make sure that nobody ever again doubts our humanity while we play? Oscuro 15:05, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Oscuro, you've asked a very hard question to answer. In an ideal world, I could give you all the information that you seek! I would truly love to do that. Because so many times, that discussion can end up making things clearer on both sides. But what if I said, "We use A, B, C, D, and E, and we weight A heavier than B, and C and D, together, will override an E every time?" Then you can be sure that every RMT company in the world would say "Ok, so we're going to cut back on (this thing) but we're ok to do (that other thing) because they don't appear to monitor that as closely."
It's frustrating to you to not be told the facts. I know that; I truly sympathize with that. It's hard to say "You did it, we know you did it, but due to our own needs, we cannot tell you too much about it." But I also know that giving those facts would be extremely harmful to the game economy as a whole, and that would affect a lot of players.
Here's a real-life example: I was watching a news report about a really horrible crime. As the reporters were talking, I wondered how they'd caught the perpetrator. Darned if the news didn't say "Oh, and Interpol and the FBI caught his person by..." (I forget the particulars.) The point is, how or why is the public's "need to know" so great that the media gave away the secrets, thus revealing a means of catching criminals? I actually said to the folks watching with me, "That is information I wish I didn't have because now every #(*%&# now knows to avoid doing whatever that guy did as another way to avoid getting caught!" (I was pretty angry at the news people, actually.)
Anyway, I ramble. :) I just checked the tickets, and I see that you're awaiting a response. Frankly, judging from the research notes, the team remains pretty convinced that they must uphold the initial block. However, I will check with them to see if there are any points of data that they might reconsider. They do a good job, and they're better than I am at analysis because of their greater familiarity. Yet I do want to see if I can learn more. I will do so, and please bear with me because with the weekend it may take a bit of time. -- Gaile 05:00, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
As a mostly unrelated question, there's something I've always wondered... you guys ban several hundred bot accounts each week, right? How do the RMT companies possibly continue to make money if they have to pay $40.00 (or more) for each new account, but (after checking the prices on a few RMT sites) a million gold only hovers around 50-70 USD? I'm not seeing where the profit comes from, especially since PayPal and many other companies are keen on refunding customers if they commit an illegal transaction (saying you had no idea it wasn't allowed probably helps in that process...). Unless every account makes several million gold before it's caught (this seems unlikely), it seems like the profit margin would be... minimal, at best. Could you offer some insight into this? Why haven't they just given up? --Jette 05:18, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
RMTs retain their profitability because they seldom actually buy accounts. They steal them. :( They play on people's trust, and they connive to get accounts by, for instance, offering fantastic payoffs for a buddy key. You've seen the messages: "Paying 300K for Prophecies Key; 200K for Buddy Key" shouted in nearly every outpost in the game. The player thinks "Heck, yeah, I'll sell you my extra buddy key for 100 Ectos (or 200K, or whatever)!" And he contacts the RMT agent. That agent then says "Well, you'll get in trouble with ArenaNet if you sell it to me, so let's keep it between us. Just give me your main account's credentials and I'll place the gold right on your account."
When I first became aware of this situation, I thought, "That can't be right. Who would fall for that line?" But I've seen the tickets, I've tracked the access points, I've called the players, and yep, it's happening. In fact, a surprising number of people fall for that line (or something similar) every single day of the week. :( Others aren't selling buddy keys, they're trying to sell a secondary account they bought, the account of a family member who isn't playing any longer, the friend's account they were given. But they all get stung in similar ways.
Sometimes, a thief will try impersonation to get the goods. See the "impersonation" message currently on the log-in screen: That's something I wrote up as the result of Support identifying a guy phishing for accounts and succeeding in stealing them through the sort of interaction that I would have thought no one would fall victim to. (Word to the wise: If someone messages you in the game and says "I'm with ArenaNet or NCsoft," say "Prove it!")
RMTs employ people for a few dollars a day to work 12+ hours shifts harvesting items and gold. But perhaps the more profitable and certainly more tragic harvesting happens when the RMT steals the accounts of real players. And as long as players allow that to happen, RMTs will continue to be profitable. -- Gaile 05:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Oh, I see. Well, that's certainly disappointing, and it must be infuriating for the individuals whose accounts are stolen. Why hasn't anything been done against the companies themselves? When I picture RMT companies I imagine a bunch of badly-treated people sitting at a computer in a sweatshop somewhere in the Far East, under a supervisor with a whip and a long, thin moustache -- you know the type, you've seen them in cheesy cartoons tying women up to railroad tracks. My point, though, is that I can't picture anyone bothering to go to the trouble of tax evasion and hiding operations from the government to earn money off an online game, Saturday morning cartoon malice aside. If they wanted to do that they'd sell cocaine or something. Since what they're doing has got to be illegal (intellectual property and all that), why doesn't the government shut them down? --Jette 06:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I understand about not being able to share the information about what is tracked, no worries. I was just hoping there was something we could do in the future to keep from being flagged since there was never any bot usage, and if this is cleared up we'll both be cutting back on farming to prevent it from happening again. Katy is just too addicted for her own good and once she gets a goal in her mind, like the chaos gloves she bought for her wammo the morning she was banned, she'll sit and grind with total focus until she earns enough to buy the materials and pay for the item. I thank you for saying you'll have them check into a few more points for us, we've been fearing that everyone would just say 'no appeals will be heard' again. It's frustrating when you know that no wrong was committed, and you feel like nobody will even listen to you, so for listening alone I thank you, it's nice to know people can still be reached sometimes. As for the time it will take, don't worry, we both know you have a lot on your plate and we are patient. Well, I am patient, I can't really speak for kate on that, she's been going crazy since the day it happened but I can't blame her. Anything the team can do to find the proof that she was indeed sitting at her desk doing the farming herself, or the item spamming if it was indeed the bunnies she was using in town or the eggs she was using in the mission, would be truly appreciated, and we're hoping against hope that they can find it. If you need anything else from either of us, please let us know and we will gladly give it. Again, thank you for hearing us, and we hope this can have a happy turnout. Oscuro 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much Gaile, it's been a pretty hard week and a half for me since i got the log out screen. I do understand you have alot of responsibilities right now, with the weekend and your family, i just truly appreciate that you're willing to look into it for me. I'ts been a very emotional week, i go from, "i'm sure they can see that i cant be a bot, im too random when i play", and confident that it will be resolved.. to "what if its never resolved, and i just stay banned!" and depressed and cranky. At this point i've been through so many emotions that closure on this , either way would be nice. If i may id like to make a public apology to Oscuro for being so moody, and for dragging him on the emotional roller coaster with me, and thank him for putting up with me through it all, it cant have been very much fun for him. and thank you again Gaile, it feels really, really good, to have someone willing to just look into it for you when you feel all hope is lost. Katy 15:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Listen Katy (btw, nice name ^^), last year after GW 3rd birthday weekend, I got a permaban due to a suspected keylogger (as I found out later). ME, miss I want to work at ArenaNet. I was shocked, horrified, and driving my parents crazier than normal because I was convinced the world was ending. Only thing that kept me sane was knowing one thing, I did nothing wrong, and if support looks into it, they will know that too. The trick I have found with support is to give all info up front because I noticed that, and Gaile might be able to confirm me on this, sometimes its not the same guy looking at your ticket and they want you to resend the info again. So I just send all my keys and any other info at once. Don't worry, there is hope. And if you make it out alive, look me up, you won't be anti social afterwords. Katherinezoltin 13:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the words of encouragment Katherine :) I do keep hoping it gets resolved, waiting can be sooo hard, although i am learning alot about patience in the meantime *lol* I Do have faith, as yes i know i did nothing wrong, and that does help in the downtime, but at the same time it's hard not to worry. (stares at her ragged and chewed fingernails) :P It's really nice though to hear of similar cases of bannings and hearing happy outcomes, that helps alot, so thank you again for adding your post, and definatly if i do make it back in i'll look you up and say hi :) Katy 16:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

thanks to everyone who helped work on my problem, i found out this morning that my account has been unblocked and im back in!! (yayyyz) Thank you Gaile for your time and Nc soft for looking into it a little deeper for me. and thank's to everyone who replied/helped me through the longest two weeks of my life. I am off to play :)Katy 14:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm just happy I got my kate back, that really was the longest two weeks ever :) Oscuro 16:38, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Very glad that everything worked out as it should. I spoke with the team lead this week and we're making a couple of tiny tweaks that should cut down on such situations. The numbers really were very small, but we're always hoping for zero "false positives." Welcome back to the game. :) -- Gaile 03:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Dear Gods, and I thought one weekend was hellish. Ah well, look me up please, username should be on my wiki. Glad it got solved, but now you have to wait till Dragon Festival to kick Gaile's butt at Dragon's Nest in revenge for those 2 long weeks. Joking, you will never beat Gaile. ^^" Katherinezoltin 08:52, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, Kate, I may love Dragon Nest, but I'm not sure I'm that good at it. I think Oscuro can challenge me with a very good chance of victory. :) -- Gaile 01:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Beyond Rediculous

Disconnects while AFKing

Gaile, I apologise for bringing this to you, but the general consensus appears to be that you are the single employee at ArenaNet that appears to actually care.

This is getting far beyond a joke, I'm afraid; I'm beginning to feel not just harassed but victimised by ArenaNet. I have emailed your customer support, but anecdotal evidence and word of mouth suggests that at best I'll be ignored and at worst lied to by either poorly informed or uncaring support agents. The fact remains, however, that my complaint is now at least a matter of record. I was just kicked from my instance with a "Network Error" and not even given the option to reconnect, for a change I was in the house and near the computer so I would have had a chance to save my session by reconnecting, but apparently AN had other ideas.

This is idiocy, I would have finished my title and stopped having to do these hideous AFK death-leveling sessions weeks ago now if I didn't loose loads of them to these ridiculous disconnects which seem to occur while I'm sleeping, while I'm at work, while I'm at college, when I go out to eat my breakfast, practically any time I turn my back another gets sprung on me. The fault does not lie with my internet connection or firewall, I am extremely sure having consulted my router logs (my internet connection hasn't dropped any time in the last 53 hours which was the last time I reset it) my firewall logs and having been connected to the internet doing other things on this same connection during most of the disconnects, I've had games of Diablo 2, Starcraft, Counterstrike:Source and other online games uninterrupted while Guild Wars disconnects me from the server. My only conclusion can be that the fault does not lie with me or my computer systems, but at the other end of the connection, with ArenaNet.

Frankly, as it stands, Guild Wars will be my first and last ArenaNet or NCsoft game as any confidence or patience I had has been eroded by my terrible game-experience.

This isn't just costing me any emotional investment I might have as well as patience and time, but also money; leaving a high performance computer on all day every day while I try to get this done does actually cost money, surprisingly enough, and the longer I have to do so for the more it costs. Not just that but this session has wasted the time and electricity of an American friend of mine who volunteered to help speed things up by giving the Charr a second target to kill - for all I know he's still in there now, wasting more of his time while he sleeps, now that I have been forcibly ejected. I find it extremely unlikely that I'll get my costs, or my lost experience points, or even my apology, I doubt too that support is capable of offering me at least a reasonably coherent explanation, or anything other than a "go away" smokescreen; as the single employee of AN who anyone I've spoken to has even a shred of faith in or respect for I was wondering if you could offer me something to cling to to convince me that the large amounts of money I've given to ArenaNet might not have been better spent flushed down the toilet. Poobah 11:36, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I know it must suck to have a deathleveling session cut off after taking so long, but you have to realize that your connection isn't a direct one to Guild Wars' servers. There are several gateways your connection travels between to get to their server, and it might be that somewhere along the line, there's a bad connection, in which case it wouldn't be your fault nor ArenaNet's fault. The fact that many, many players are able to do these sessions, coupled with the fact that players like me can leave GW running and leave the house for several hours at a time, only to return to my character still logged in and standing where he was, is more proof that the problem you're having might actually be somewhere between you and ArenaNet. Other games you have might not disconnect simply because their servers are located in different locations, and the route it takes to get to them is different than the one travelled for Guild Wars.
As for the electricity, it's really your choice to leave your computer running in the first place, so it's not fair for you to complain about any electricity you have had to pay for or wasted. Anyone that attempts the LDoA title is aware that disconnects can happen, and you have to be prepared for it.
Just my $0.02. --★KOKUOU★ 12:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Kokuou, your problem seems to reside somewhere inbetween. I finished my LDOA just recently, and was deathleveling basically 24/7 for about 2 months, restarting my PC only about once a week for updates, etc. In those 2 months, I had only a few disconnects (5-10 somewhere), which is to be expected, but nothing remotely like what you speak of. And I did see a small increase in my electric bill, but that is a choice. Turning off the monitor while you leave helps, as well as minimizing the game, to reduce the load from your graphics card and processor, and thus the cooling fans.
I don't know how this works or if this would help at all, but you can try changing districts to european or asian, or even changing your region for the time being, to see if this changes your connection path, it might not, but it's worth a shot. But all I can tell you is that it's not directly ArenaNet's fault, and they would not be able to help you with this, even if they wanted to. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 16:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
It's incredibly incredibly frustrating to be so close and to have the very design of the game working against me. I have had many very successful death leveling sessions or I'd have never gotten so far, but the worst thing for me is that these disconnects never happen 2 hours in to a session or even 8, but 20 or more, when I'm almost done so I loose an entire day or more. I see the nicely leveled charr and am just waiting for that one extra group to level, then I loose them all. I feel like I'm running a marathon and it just keeps getting longer and longer, to see the finish post and then to have it get further away instead of closer is at best annoying/frustrating and at worst soul-destroyingly infuriating. Poobah 17:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
When I was death-leveling, as soon as I saw a group get to my level (usually within 6-8 hours), I killed them to let the rest level. This way, you get the XP from them without fear of losing it entirely while waiting some more, and the other groups actually start leveling faster. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 17:22, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Also, the fact that you mentioned 20 hours worries me. The game usually automatically disconnects you after being in for 24 hours. I always restarted the game client completely before starting a new death-level, and a single session never took me more than about 15 hours - I usually got through 2 sessions in a 24 hour period. Your problem may be that you are waiting too long. XP earned/Time invested ratio goes down dramatically once the charr get more than 1 level above you, so it's not worth waiting for them to level higher. Kill them no later than 1 level above yours (unless you came back to find them higher, of course). As I mentioned before, I killed mine when they were the same level as me, usually, and that is the best XP return for the time spent, because beyond that point, they need more XP to level up, and get less from killing you, so each subsequent level takes longer and longer. Might as well start a new deathlevel from scratch. Also, charr share XP, so if you are waiting for a lower group to level up, it is in your best interest to kill the higher ones, because then the lower ones will get more XP from kills and level faster. I usually pulled 3 or more groups, and when there was only one group left, I just waited for them to get high enough to give me 16XP per kill, and killed them and started a new session. The only way I'd let the last group level longer was if it had hunters, because then they actually have enough firepower to still kill me fast, but this was rare, as the last group was usually the caster one. Hope these tips from my own experience help you get your title. Best of luck. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 17:41, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I do not think it's the game that disconnects you (as some of my 9 rings sessions lasted 2~3 days), it's probably more your ISP, especially if you are on DHCP. Jaxom 20:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
He already mentioned that he checked his ISP and it did not seem to be the problem. And I usually cannot stay logged in on the same character for more than 24 hours, keyword being "usually." I often get disconnected and simply have to log back in, but for safety, I always restarted the client for deathleveling for that reason. But, I HAVE had the client open for more than a week before: You have been playing for 1 week. Please take a break. -- Yes, thank you, game, I think I'd be dead by then... Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Wait, is this a QQ post because an AFKleveling attempt failed? Wow.-- anguard 01:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I am sorry that you're having connectivity problems, but you should know that well over 95% of the time when people blame the game or our servers, there are no issues whatsoever with Guild Wars, ArenaNet, NCsoft, or any other area of our service. But there are a lot of points of connection between your house and the game server and we cannot control your ISP, your hardware, your software, the Internet backbone, etc. So short answer: This is a Technical Support issue; ask to be referred to them and work with the team on this. You've done some good checking there, and that's great, but please let them get in on that and see what they learn, too, ok?

I can't help but smile a bit here because I don't see too many instances of people complaining to us that they're upset because they can't reliably not play the game. Maybe the difference between the other games you cite and Guild Wars is that with the other games, you're really there, playing. (I don't know anyone who tries to AFK in StarCraft or Diablo.) There may have a difference in the way your ISP perceives and provides your service. I mention this particularly because when I was actively playing SC -- I mean hours a day -- if a match lasted over an hour, I was disconnected by my ISP. It was their "policy" -- which I only learned about a few weeks of persistent (but courteous, I promise you :) ) research on my part -- to ping their customers every 60 minutes for activity; they did not read gameplay as "activity" so boom, there when my connection. I was appalled; I switched ISPs immediately.

AFKing is not something that we actively support and I don't see us making a bunch of new tools to help people not play our game -- but we will research and correct any issue that is within our area of purview. Now, if Support tells you the problem is not within our servers or is not something upon which we can take action, please do not consider yourself "harassed" or "victimized," and please don't leap to the conclusion that Support is indifferent! The team will work hard to correct any issue within our control and they'll tell you honestly if they cannot assist. Yes, I care (as do a lot of others); let me know what you find out, ok? -- Gaile 04:39, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

A bit contradicting to state that ya'll don't support AFKing while playing, but still introduced the LdoA title. Funny.-- anguard 19:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
But must you be AFK to acquire the title? :) I know of players who are actively in the game as they acquire the title. The fact that it can be acquired by AFKing doesn't mean it must be, or even should be. What people can do and what we feel we must support as a viable form of gameplay can be two different things, so I don't think there's a contradiction here.
@ Poobah -- Incidentally, I talked to the lead of the Technical Support Team today about this matter, and he would like to hear from you so he can gather data about the issue and possibly help you resolve it or at least figure out its source. You can get that referral to TS directly within your ticket. -- Gaile 19:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
You state people don't have to, but they generally do. It'd be boring not to.-- anguard 19:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Hum? I thought that after some level it was impossible to get any more experience in pre-searing and the only way to reach lvl20 way was to get it from the char withdeath levelling them, something which would be an awfull (and boring) thing to look at (not to mention to listen to) for hours and hours and hours...
And 9 rings and rings of Fortune? What to you expect from us while standing on the rings all day long starring at the screen? Sure, I do come back to my PC sometime, and when some guildies or alliance members are online we do socialize, I also sometime talk with fellow 'ringers', eat candies and drink booze but I would not do that for an entire 3-days event... Jaxom 19:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I totally understand what you guys are saying. I'm trying to make a fine distinction here: What you choose to do, and what our teams (development, support) are required to support can be two different things. We don't have sneaky code that disconnects AFKers, but nor are we obliged to spend resources developing, for example, "The Super Mighty Reconnector of AFKing Wonderfulness(tm)." :)
If you choose to AFK, so be it. And as I said, we don't intentionally try to stop that. However, if it takes team time to support something, we're going to support, improve, or expand the game as designed, and not the... I don't know... non-mainstream mechanics of the game that some players use. I hope that's clearer, and I'm sorry if what I said was, or is, confusing. -- Gaile 20:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Meh, all that aside I'm still a bit on your side of the fence, As I think it's stupid for complaining about losing connection because you were persuing a luxury.-- anguard 20:39, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Gaile, I apologise if my tone was offensive earlier, but I hope you can understand my increasing frustration with disconnects as I progress slowly with this title, especially now I'm running down the final straight only to find the metaphorical finishing post move further away. I know that it is possible to stay in game, but the worst thing about this is that I was actually sitting at my PC when this disconnect happened, however, I do not think that anyone has attended the full 700-1000 hours necessary to complete this title especially given the nature of death levelling sessions which even with a very high death rate (in the region of 3.33-3.6 deaths per minute) and with only a single charr group getting all the kills will take at least 5-6 hours. Few people have that much time available in a single block except at weekends.
Rose of Kali, I favour longer sessions with large numbers of charr, typically a full 25 charr (minus all bar one shaman) pull because of the increased killspeed they offer. I will kill 1 charr from a group when it reaches my level which will typically allow another group to get in on the kills and level while still taking advantage of the excellent amount of damage the other charr are providing. I find this rather more efficient than using multiple small sessions, but your mileage may (and it seems does) vary.
I have received some messages from Technical Support and they have requested I update my grapics drivers before going any further (I was able to find the version for windows vista 64 bit of the driver I was linked to), I am unable to do this until my current death levelling session is either completed or goes horribly wrong because multiple restarts of the computer will be needed, once my drivers have been updated I'll resubmit the technical data, likely somewhat later in this evening. Thank you. Poobah 21:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the update, Poobah. (And for your courtesy -- I appreciate that.) Just to let you know, in the year I've been in this role I've learned more and more about the weird and sometimes entirely (to my mind's eye) inexplicable connections between different components, drivers, servers, software, hardware, ISPs, builds, rutabagas, badminton shuttlecocks... I think that updating the drivers may be unrelated, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn a driver issue actually was causing some sort of behind-the-scenes issue after all. And in any case, with the update, you'll have things aligned in such a way TS can continue to give you a hand.
As I said, the team lead (super nice and smart guy) was more than willing to work with you on this, and I hope it sorts out well. You obviously have a more technically savvy head on your shoulders than I do, but I feel as if, every now and then, I should get the word out that downloading the thingies, updating the whozits, or sending them the whatyacallits is definitely worthwhile. ;)
I will look forward to your update. -- Gaile 23:52, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I am just curious, Poobah. When you are afk-deathleveling, do you "minimize" the game, or keep it maximized on screen? I couldn't find a mention to this on your messages.
The resources consumption of the game while minimized appears to cause issues when there is lot of activity on screen (ie. getting killed by lots of skills).--Fighterdoken 00:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh i did that tons and tons of times, but my comp buddy suggested using the taskmanager to put gw at live priority, and whooho no more midnight d/c's. Ctr+alt+delete applications right click set priority. Siadina 00:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Poobah, I understand your frustration. Being practically next door to the Texas servers (located in Austin), I would expect to get excellent connectivity. Sadly, I'm at the mercy of Comcast, which for some Abaddonic reason bounces my signal cross-country through Los Angeles. Needless to say, my little connection indicator in GW rarely gets to stay green. And believe me, Comcast does not have the best performance, no matter what mis-info they try to feed the media. It gets especially maddening, when my DHCP is up for refresh. Lags in the 10s of thousands, i.e. several seconds, are not uncommon. Bottomline, it's not your computer, not the GW server. It's probably your fine ISP.

Hey, and if you want to save on energy: use a laptop for those AFK sessions. Example: My Thinkpad T40 performs graphically better than my GeForce 4 desktop. I can't explain it, perhaps the Radeon chipset makes better use of borrowed system memory than the nvidia builtin RAM. It's only a fraction of the energy cost though. 76.30.79.54 09:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Trade buddy key for gold

I have noticed that many people are proposing a trade by which you procure them with a buddy key or expansion key in return for x amount of gold.

I was wandering if this is legal, because it feels unsafe and weird to me , I would assume this type of trade is illegal. Am I correct or am I just paranoid ?

It's 100% illegal. -- Minami
I'd wait for an official reponse first --adrin Image:User_adrin_ecto_sig.png 16:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Buddy keys were created to be given to buddies for (OMG!) free to try the game, that is what they were intended for. Selling them for in-game gold or items is illegal, be they buddy keys or full game keys, and RMT is illegal no matter what you're trading. Yes, this can be considered RMT, because the full game keys can be purchased at a store, and are thus worth real life money, and as such cannot be traded for in-game goods. The only "legal" way to trade keys is if you resell the full game key as a game online or at a store, which is frequently being done with CE's - people buy them, hoard them for a while, and resell for ridiculous prices (try buying US version Prophecies CE - that'll cost you a crappy car). But again, as far as buddy keys go, they are supposed to be free, no matter how you trade them. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 17:17, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
"The rules are all pretty basic: ... Don't buy or sell in-game items for real-world cash or buy or sell accounts or access keys for in-game or real-world currency." ~ from GW.com --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 05:23, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
That is correct. The exchange of a Buddy Key for in-game gold is strictly prohibited and such an exchange can result in action on an account, up to and including account termination. Also, be aware, most of the "people" advertising to "buy" the keys will try to get access to your real account and take the buddy key and the game account. If you read the in-game messages on the log-in screen, you'll know what I'm talking about. -- Gaile 05:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

O_O Oh wow...

04/22/2009 When I was trying to log into my account a messaged popped up saying my account was blocked and I needed to contact support. So I did. Reference #090422-001408

They said that my account has been temporarily suspended for 'account sharing.'

They gave me 336 hours suspension... Is this really necessary to give me that many hours? That is like 2 weeks. lol. This is my 2nd suspension. The first suspension wasn't really my fault, since I knew nothing about it. This was on 05/14/2008. Reference #080514-001518. For that they only gave me 65 hours for it.

I also have another question about 'Account Sharing'. I know that my boyfriend have mentioned me in one of your talk posts earlier in this. If I use his computer to play Guild Wars with my account... will I be able to do so? Will that get me suspended again?? (Apparently they iP ban my bf from logging. :/ Don't know how that's going to work anymore...) I have been using his computer on and off a couple of times to play Guild Wars with my account. There were times when my laptop wouldn't even run the game anymore because of lag. So I used his computer to do some dungeon runs from time to time. Also... how would you know if someone is 'account sharing?' Wouldn't the 2 accounts have the same iP address if both were using the same computer or the same connection? TalkW a f f l e z 09:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Play NC Account and Support Case

Gaile, I submitted case 090421-001627 this evening in response to... well, you can check it out. Anyway, while submitting the case I realized that I have no idea what my PlayNC account is. I know I have one though. How do I go about finding that out so that I can reply to case updates when needed? Pkohler01 00:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Try the "I forgot my XXX" feature, you may be able to track it down by your Email address, if you have a guess at which one you used (most likely the same address as you use to log into GW). Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 00:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks I'll give this a try Pkohler01 01:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
No dice, can't figure it out. I even checked my GW ingame store receipts. 24.188.207.20 22:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the constant remarks, Gaile. I mentioned this to support on that same ticket, they're going to forward me to the right people after they tend to the initial support issue. Please consider this matter closed for now. Pkohler01 03:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Ban Appeal

Hello, Gaile. Please, I beg you, reconsider/help this decision.

Incident: 090421-001622 And beforehand, I just want to say THANK YOU so much for your help in the matter... You have no idea how depressed I am over this right now. --Uchiha Lena 00:56, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Personal Update / Personal Plea

I've been out of the state for several days dealing with issues related to a relative who is in the hospital and who may possibly never get out. I want to tell you that up front as an explanation for my absence but also to ask for your forgiveness if I answer various posts here with what might be uncustomarily direct (blunt?) and short responses.

Perhaps to lessen the terse answer I may give, I can give you some general information that relates to recent posts and threads:

  • Every day, I get someone saying "I was banned for saying 'poo poo.'" And, while I want to leap in to help that "poor player" and sometimes it's the right to do that, most of the time I read the chat log and see enough @(%^&@(*^$&#*T^$ sort of language to shame a Marine. (With no disrepect to Marines. :) ) So don't say "I was banned for 'poo poo'" unless you're willing to face my calling you on it if you're not.
  • I get cries of "I was blocked for the name "Pussy Cat" and I find out "Pussy Cat" is not banned, but the characters on that same account with real, genuine, and even obvious offensive names are blocked. Can the person who is filing an appeal really not know? I'd say at least 90% know darn well which name was blocked -- and it wasn't Pussy Cat! -- but I'm working on getting a tool that tells people, "You were banned for the name #@*%^ #*%&*#*" and that'll leave no question.
  • Do those things mean people sometimes lie? Yes, it does. Does it mean they're sometimes mistaken, and don't really know why or how they were banned? Yes, it does. Does this mean I'll stop giving every situation a review? Nope, I will look, and I will try to help, but you have to know I'm going to probably make it clear if you're filling this page with bogus claims or inappropriate banning, so beware! :)
  • Important Note: Nobody is ban happy these days. We have not increased our actions on offensive names, inappropriate chat, scamming, botting, RMT, harassment, or anything else. If you had an offensive name and you had it for four years and you just got caught -- well, surprise! -- you chose an offensive name and you finally got caught. If you use cutsie "Oh, it's not really offensive" excuses, or "I deny that's creative spelling for a disallowed word" or some lame comment that says "I'm not trying to get around the rules, really!" the Team is (and I am) very likely to see through that and you're going to keep the name block or the time-out for offensive chat. And, consider: If you get enough of those suspensions, you may end up with an account termination.
  • Also, bans and suspensions given in the game are related to behavior in the game. By that, I mean no one is given a mark in the game for his/her wiki behavior or for being rude to staff if we meet at a trade show, or for posting on a forum saying mean things. (And to one recent point: no one has been blocked for the use of the word "hell." Come on -- we have Hell's Precipice in the game! Protects of innocence should be based on truth.)

I will get to the notes here, but it'll take me time. I have more than a full day's work every day without the requests, but I promise you I take every personal request seriously, and I will treat every player with respect, as I have been doing for 8+ years. But I ask that you hold tight and give me some time. And as I start trying to review these -- in between team meetings, emails, phone calls, support ticket reviews, and a dozen other things -- I'm going to ask that each of you please stop, think about your suspension or ban, consider what the team is telling you, and then make sure that you really, really need my help. Please don't look on me as a way to get by with misbehavior, the person who's going to let a slimey name pass or give a scammer another chance to hurt an innocent player. Because that's not who I am; that's not what I do.

Please, let me deal with the real issues, for the good of the game. I will do that as quickly and as fairly as I can. Thank you for understanding. -- Gaile 05:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, Gaile, this might also be pretty useful in some sort of FAQ at the top of the page. It pretty much covers what you want to be the ground rules for this page. King Neoterikos 07:07, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Neoterikos... I wish the best and lots of strength for you, your family, and your relative who's in the hospital. *HUGS* --Minami Kaori
That is very kind of you, Minami. She is doing much better. Recovery will be a slow process, but we are all hopeful she will be able to make a full recovery. Thank you for your considerate thoughts. :) -- Gaile 04:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Account Bans

Account Ban * iP Ban + banned my girlfriend for "sharing accounts"

Hello, Gaile.

I just like to show you this previous comment from support and I would like to have your thoughts about it.


Thank you for your time, as well as everyone else's on the support team.

I could not honestly be more happier right now, I have already decided to escalate this issue to the proper people since I have learned some NEW interesting facts about this matter. I've already called a few numbers from Arena.Net and I am pending a call back from them with further information. It has come to my attention, though, that not only was MY account blocked, but, my girlfriend's account AND several others (just because they were linked to knowing me, which, makes it a personal hate-case). You, Arena.Net, have made this particular cased a biased one and, and, that brings it to an entirely new level from what I was originally reporteded/suspended for when I told "We Rock Like Aesop" to blow off. I am sorry, but, this is no longer a "we are just doing our job/upholding the EULA policy", but rather, as forementioned, simply an excuse for terminating my account to fulfill your "duties" without looking at reason.

As proof that your support team has been overzealous and has been STALKING ME, they have been watching my every chat log session between my girlfriend/guildies and I. I have compliments to Gaile Gray (she sent me emails of chat logs from events of which were completely random and from not reports that were made by anyone what so ever) as proof that you have been harrassing/stalking my chat logs when I was in SECLUDED/SHUT OFF areas with my guildies/girlfriend (e.g., my Guild Hall and even in explorable areas such as Dungeons) on Guild Wars, trying to find an excuse to ban me.

More proof is as follows: my previous attempts of reporting people whom swear at me, curse me out, spam me, verbally abuse me, ect, were ALL shot down as of late due to "mutual confrontation" when they were no way in the sort "mutual confrontation". Once more, I have been singled out.

If you deny any of the accusations I have just now mentioned about my reporting people and being denied then please refer to support ticket number 090421-001470 from a name I found repulsive, "Tramp Ollin", That was NOT found as inappropriate even though "tramp" means "a sexually promiscuous woman; prostitute" (taken right off of dinctionary.com).

Here's another innocent report of mine that was shot down due to "mutual confrontation": 090330-000322. The excuse of denying my report, in short, was this: "I've been reviewing your account, violations, and reports that you have made. You have eight violations over the last year and are on a final warning. You are aware of this yet you continue to draw attention to yourself and report other players. When we look into your logs, it's clear that you instigate and troll most of the responses."

Basicly, he se is saying "I have looked at your account and because you have previous marks against your account we can safely assume that you caused this to happen." This person clearly verbally abused/spammed me for over 3 hours! If this GM had truely looked at the logs AND screen shots submitted he would see I did NOT reply to anything this person said to me so this could NOT be construed as "mutual confrontation".

If you are not aware of what I am mentioning right now then please reffer to my last 2-3 reports against people that were shot down for extremely biased and singled-out reasons.

Overall, I just wanted to say that I have plenty of proof for my accusations and those reasons will be given to your team once I get everything sorted out in my records when I take this even higher.

I very much appreciate all of your time, and, thank you again for your time and have an amazing day!

Jonathan T******

p.s.

By the way, I would just like to point out that one of the reasons you are trying to suspend me for, saying the word "gay", is way quite redundant. The way I used it was NOT used derogatively in any way, shape, or form. Also, a heads up, whenever you say the word "gay" with the chat filter set to MAX, it isn't even blocked out with those cute little hyphons. If you do not believe me, please test it yourself. ^^

p.s.s.

Ah, my girlfriend has just now informed me that you removed her perma ban and gave her a 336 hours suspension for letting me log onto her account, more descriptively, you told her "sharing" accounts. FURTHERMORE, you have blocked my iP from logging onto her account (I tested it on a friends account to see if my iP was banned altogether) and have threatened my girlfriend with a permanant ban if it is logged on from any other iP address. This is MORE proof of singling me and anyone I am affiliated with out!

Here is what they told her:

Response (GM Cykor) 04/22/2009 06:57 PM Greetings,

Your account has been temporarily suspended for account sharing, which is a major violation of our Rules of Conduct and User Agreement. As section 4 of the User Agreement states:

"Only one person may use an Account. The registered user of an Account may use the Account or may choose instead to permit a minor child of the registered user to use the Account. You are liable for all activities conducted through your Account, and parents or guardians are liable for all activities of their minor child conducted through the Account." Link: http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/users-agreement.php


Once the suspension has elapsed you will be free to log in and play again. Any further account sharing will likely result in a permanent account ban.

GM Cykor The Guild Wars Support Team

How can they PROVE I was on her account? What is she is a TRAVELLER and uses multiple iP's?? What if they live at multiple locations? This all looks like a load of bullshit... --Uchiha Lena 00:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's another one that I found funny.

Hello,

Your account was permanently closed due to repeated violations of the Rules of Conduct and User Agreement. This account has been blocked twice for inappropriate language and is related to other accounts that are continually violating our rules.

Protests regarding the termination of your Guild Wars game account will not be addressed or entertained. We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block. We regret the necessity of terminating any game account, but we will continue to take all necessary actions to protect the Guild Wars community and to assure that players are abiding by our User Agreement.

Please keep in mind that Guild Wars is a global game with hundreds of thousands of players. This means that standards of behavior must be upheld. For your convenience, you can obtain more information about our rules at the addresses listed below.

- User Agreement: http://www.guildwars.com/support//legal/users-agreement.php - Rules of Conduct: http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/rulesofconduct.php - Conduct Breaches & Outcomes: http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/conduct_breaches_and_outcomes.php

Regards,

GM Cykor The Guild Wars Support Team

Here was the reply:

Related? So because you accuse me of being "related" to another account that means I will recieve a permanant ban after only 1 suspension? LOL! You cannot be serious. Basicly you are saying since I know a drug dealer that means I am in fact an associate of his, making ME a drug dealer?? Is that your logic? That is so flawwed. :\ Why are you abusing your "rights", Cykor? I want this forwarded to someone whom is not power crazed, please. This is rediculous and so communistic!

Amazing... --Uchiha Lena 00:35, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

well deserved regardless of the terms -FireFox Image:User_FireFox_av.png 01:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I think you meant dictatorial, not communistic. My bigger question is that there are a lot of married couples who play this game and lots of siblings who share accounts. If a woman were to type "Hi Guidies, this is just Janice saying hello!" through her husbands account while he's logged in, does that count as account sharing too? I've been wondering a lot recently if maybe all of these rules would be best enforced when it becomes a problem and not just because it happened. Either way, I wish both you and aNet the best of luck. Pkohler01 01:09, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I personally don't find any of their responses unusual, or in any way violating their policies as spelled out in the RoC and EULA. As for monitoring chat logs, well, they are free to view ANY in game chat, regardless of what your location is in the game, or who you are talking to. If you want to say things to people that you know are violations of the Guild Wars rules, you should say them in your vent, ts, or im not in game. As for bringing yourself to their attention by continually reporting people, again, the report feature is there to deal with real violations, not for pay backs or because you don't like someone. Using it too much on things that are frivolous like barely offensive names (Tramp is offensive? give me a break!) is considered abuse of the system. Each mark against your account raises the amount of scrutiny support is going to place your account under, and they don't have to limit it to current activities, they can pull chat logs of every single thing you have said since you started playing guild wars to determine a pattern of behavior. Your comparison of the treatment of friends of drug dealers is really very apt, since most people who hang out with drug dealers are probably also involved in drugs, and would warrant scrutiny by law enforcement. So you kinda shot yourself in the foot with that one. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 01:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) If you feel that you must continue to pursue this, please continue to discuss this with Support via your ticket. That is the only means through which NCsoft or ArenaNet will respond to you. -- Gaile 01:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, Gaile. Yes, I know, I have already been talking to them and have already talked to a few different people from Arena.Net via telephone, but, they (the online support have been taking their time more and more with each response. Hell, they've already blocked my ip, lol(but no problem, I can change my iP at will ;P)! Anyways... It doesn't really matter, Ms. Gray, I've decided to quit GW now because of the crappy support team they have working for them. I must admit, though, communists are so strict. :(
Actually, your phone call was referred to me, but the studio doesn't offer phone support and, as I said, you need to discuss the issue with our Support Team. -- Gaile 05:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

@ Wyn, uhmmmm... I expected no less from someone who is a sysop for aNet themselves on their wiki. :\ So since I know a drug dealer (whom wasn't one back in High School but is one now) in real life that makes ME "probably also involved in drugs"? Wow... Last I checked I havn't done drugs my whole life. Personally, I think adding the word "probally" in that sentence is extremely biased as it is. :\ --Uchiha Lena 02:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Arrogance, ignorance and the maturity level of a pre-teen... you're quite the package aren't you?
p.s.
------
Look into spell check, please. -FireFox Image:User_FireFox_av.png 02:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
@firefox - cute. coming from the guy who just said "well deserved regardless of the terms" without any punctuation. quite the statement! 2-faced contradictive, and failed flaming all in one... "you're quite the package", as well. ;). --Uchiha Lena 02:53, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Spelling /= Grammar. Good one. King Neoterikos 05:28, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Uchina, as you can probably tell from the "Racial Slurs???" section above, Gaile isn't supposed to respond to cases where anet bans people because they feel like it. The only thing you can do is sue (which costs more money than you'd make) or just convince people to not buy anet products (which anet is already doing well at). ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 04:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Firstly, ArenaNet and NCsoft never take action on an account "because we feel like it." We don't take action in the game for activities on the wiki. We don't say "Let's take out that anti-ArenaNet guy," or "Let's see if we can entrap that other person because, well, we just don't like him." Accounts are suspended and terminated only for in-game breaches of the User Agreement, the Rules of Conduct, or the Naming Policy. Action is taken because of reports, because of observed bad behavior, because, in some cases, a player is put on warning. And it is probably important to say that a warning means something, that we're not going to simply wring our hands in an agony of "What will we do?" if someone is approaching termination due to repeated violations. When you walk on the knife's edge, sometimes you get cut.
Secondly, I'm "allowed" to respond to any appeal that comes my way. However, I may or may not choose to do so, based on the individual case and the circumstances around it. Sure, I will take a look, that's only fair. But when I can see that the action has already been explained, then whether I lay out chapter and verse in explaining what happened is entirely at my discretion. If there is a question, if there is doubt, if I want to know more or see if I can help, I will certainly do so.
In cases that clearly do not involve a Support Issue -- where I can confirm there was no error and the account block or termination was clearly documented and logically decided upon -- then I really seldom need to get involved. For instance, I get a few RMT appeals a week. (For some reason, RMTs think that if they write me, or wave my name in front of the Support Team, they'll get that fabled "Get Out of Jail Free" card.) I used to painstakingly respond, but nowadays I'm more likely to give a brief "Please continue to discuss with Support" response to those who appeal for that sort of block. I do the same with others where there are no errors and where the suspension or termination is clearly, and provably, deserved. -- Gaile 05:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, Ms. Gray, I think this is the most unorthidox type of ban to have even been issued (and I've heard of so, so, SO many different types with different cased, might I add [as well as I am sure you have also). The thing that concerns me SO much is how they were literally stalking my chat logs between me and my gf and my guildies when nobody even reported me to have them do so in the first place-- not to mention the fact they (support) used against me that I said the word "gay" in an underogative manner.
"2009-04-19 02:56:47.000 Lena The Saint wow that is the ghayest thing ever"
1) I am 100% sure this is not inappropriate. To be "ghay" (gay) can be construed as exactly how I used it: Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry. I did not use this as aperosnal assault at anyone seeeing as how my younger sibling is a homosexual and I do *NOT* have anything against "the gays". I will not and have no ever used such a simple word in any bad shape of context. Ultimately, I used this as an oxymoron. I literally stated "wow that is the 'happiest/exciting' thing ever". Obviously what happened was NOT that thrilling, hence the oxymoron useage. "2009-04-19 02:56:47.000 Lena The Saint wow that is the ghayest thing ever"
I think it's unfair that I blew a guy off (with words that were not exactly what I would classify as "inapproriate" who verbally-sexually harrassed my girlfriend and I am the one to recieve a "that's the last straw" suspension -> perma ban. :( -
In my opinion this overzealous ban to "just get him out of the way" was highly uncalled for and I will always stick to that. I know support has a job to do but on my case I CAN say they did it biasedly and I have an extremely huge amount of facts to back it up if you ever would like to inquire on them via personal email. I mean... heck.. they perma banned others just because they were "related to my account". lolwut? C'mon.... That's so.... BLEH! *but thank god they got their perma removed-- just to be given a 2 week suspension when their ban was lifted and only given the reason "for breaching the EULA" as an excuse on their log in screen* :\
I dunno, I guess I would feel way more comfortable if they at least had me allowable for an appeal after X amount of weeks (whereas X would = single digits, not double. <_<) like they've done for some dupers/botters I've known throughout my GW career. :( -Uchiha Lena 06:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Seriously spell check. That many grammatical errors will only hinder your cause. Anyways I'm still for ArenaNet holding a company party where they all watch Gran Torino. I'd like to see an audience recording of the thing too. That way we could see how people start to break down and cry from how people actually talk to each other. ^.^ --> O.O --> Q.Q ~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 17:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

:ODD, another one of those "omg spell check!!!!" QQ'ers. Let me point out, that, your sentence, "Anyways I'm still for ArenaNet holding a company party where they all watch Gran Torino. I'd like to see an audience recording of the thing too.", could DEFINATELY use some work. If you are incapable to spot the mistakes at a FIRST glance, then, I truely pity you for saying "go use spell check". Less flamming more contructive remarks-- gogo!! --66.190.90.130 18:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

This conversation has degraded to the point where it is no longer constructive. Pkohler01 18:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
DEFINITELY*, of spotting the mistakes*, truly*, flaming*, constructive*, and, adding, random, commas, doesn't, make, you, seem, intelligent. -FireFox Image:User_FireFox_av.png 22:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. This is complimented in large part to wiki trollers. I simply want Gailes response on the matter and/or her help, not everyone else's opinion. :\ --Uchiha Lena 18:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
We don't take action in the game for activities on the wiki.
That's cute. ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 04:29, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Character Slots

Gaile, has there been any talk about allowing more character slots per account? I've maxed out and would prefer to continue adding slots to my primary account as opposed to going with a separate account. Pkohler01 23:14, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, slight update here... I had 34 slots but, just bought another to see what would happen. I now have 35 slots and the online store looks like it will let me buy more - the option isn't grayed out. With 8 slots from campaigns, 1 from the NF pre-release and 26 bought from the store, I should be at the max now. What happens if I try to buy more? Pkohler01 03:28, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I think if you have the max number, you will simply be prevented from buying more. As for whether we will be adding the option to add more -- "raising the cap" on the number you can add -- I will need to ask the Live Team about that. After the April update. :) -- Gaile 05:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you Gaile! Pkohler01 18:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Gail Grays Left Egg

Offensive name report

If you goes by this name in alliance battles you lost the battle aginst us. If you dont, Gail Grays Left Egg lost the battle against us ;) Yseron - 90.15.182.163 19:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

...because one person can win an entire match, ay?-- anguard 20:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Of course he did not loose alone :) Yseron - 90.15.182.163 20:18, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Then why does it matter if it really was Gaile Grey (which I doubt) and lost? Employees can only be so good at their own game, y'know?-- anguard 20:19, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Because she might be interested in character naming policy :) ? Yseron - 90.15.182.163 20:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I have no idea what the guild is. I'm not a member, never seen them, never played with them. I'm far, far too busy today to be in the game playing a match. :) -- Gaile 20:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Dont worry, I was playing with the usual "I'm going to show them gw wiki nubs who I am" users while waiting for a battle to begin. However it was probably a pvp only char that must have been deleted by now. Yseron - 90.15.182.163 20:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Character Slots

Gaile, has there been any talk about allowing more character slots per account? I've maxed out and would prefer to continue adding slots to my primary account as opposed to going with a separate account. Pkohler01 23:14, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, slight update here... I had 34 slots but, just bought another to see what would happen. I now have 35 slots and the online store looks like it will let me buy more - the option isn't grayed out. With 8 slots from campaigns, 1 from the NF pre-release and 26 bought from the store, I should be at the max now. What happens if I try to buy more? Pkohler01 03:28, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I think if you have the max number, you will simply be prevented from buying more. As for whether we will be adding the option to add more -- "raising the cap" on the number you can add -- I will need to ask the Live Team about that. After the April update. :) -- Gaile 05:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you Gaile! Pkohler01 18:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Gambling

Is in-game gambling allowed if the gambling is for items or gold and relates directly to something in-game whether it's /roll or "I bet you 10g that Joe's gonna get killed by them grawl!" ? Pkohler01 01:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

don't quote me on this but i 'think' (keyword: think)gambling is NOT allowed in GW. --Uchiha Lena 02:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Nothing's stopping you, but you're basing your trust on people you may not know, and hence may not pay up if you win (likewise, that means you won't have to pay up if you lose). It's about as precarious as asking for/giving runs. Do it at your own in-game risk. King Neoterikos 05:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Coming from a runner, there's a hell of a lot of scammers out there. Probably not worth the risk to gamble. Blood Red Giant 06:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Gamble with friends. Just like you should in real life.--71.176.42.55 19:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Considering that we have Rings of Fortune and Nine Rings, and rock/paper/scissors with the NPC in LA, as well as more obscure gambling such as opening PvE or Zaishen chests, I don't think Anet would care one way or the other, just don't go crying to them that you got scammed or something. If you win and don't get paid, it's only your problem, and nobody else's. Running is a gamble for both parties, and so far Anet does not seem to have anything against it (other than putting up all those closed gates in Factions >_<). Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Good input. I was really asking because I was talking with some friend about playing "dice" for garbage drops (I guess the idea there is to lose lol). /roll 6 and I unload a plague idol. I lack the ambition to gamble for anything more valuable than a steel ingot. Pkohler01 23:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a /roll in the game, and I'm sure that players fairly using the system would not cause concern. The concern arises when players try to scam others, or when arguments break out. At that time, I believe Support would tell the parties involved that their use of the system is not supported, and that they would have to resolve the issues on their own. We simply do not have the capacity (or the will) to arbitrate personal arguments. -- Gaile 21:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I believe most in-game gambling got squished a few weeks after GW came out when /roll was banned in town due to gambling games all over LA. Those were amusing but I never took part. I was broke (in-game) back then. ^^" Katherinezoltin 13:17, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
With the April Build, /roll is removed from PvP, so teams cannot cheese the system by "deciding" a match through a toss of the dice. Yes, I'm aware some players are using yet another means to cheese, and I'll be discussing that with the Live Team. In the meantime, the one is addressed. -- Gaile 21:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Support question

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

If this should be in the support issues section, please move it there. I put it here because it doesn't actually relate to an open ticket. I have noticed recently that people are claiming to have received chat logs relating to their block. In many instances this has lead them to determine the events surrounding that log, who was present and who could have heard it. They have been claiming that these people would not report them for it, now they can't know that for certain and they can't be sure if they made the comments in Guild Chat that there was no one on appear offline or anything, but my concern is that in other circumstances, other reporters could be identified as the person who filed a report from the chat logs and face harassment and persecution as a result. I'm all for the idea of banned parties having a route for appeal and having access to information to understand why they were banned, but not really at the cost of the rights of reporters.

Are you able to explain under what circumstances chat logs are released and are efforts made to protect reporters? For example is specific effort made to not release chat logs that could be used to determine the original reporter? Naturally releasing a full chat log from Kamadan AD1 during a busy period is not much of an issue, but releasing even a partial chat log from comments made in team chat in a 4 man area could often make a reporter easily identifiable.

I know the policy in the past has been to not release any chat log information but this policy appears to have changed and with it brought a few concerns and I personally think it is important that reporters know what they could be exposing themselves to. This is the internet after all, trolling is commonplace, in game accounts are often associated with accounts in other places, such as on this wiki and ArenaNet cannot even begin to police them all even if they had the power. Misery 07:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

The only things on the top of my head is the privacy clause (if they have one) and the no-obligation they hold in releasing any information related to discrepancies like this.(Terra Xin 17:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC))
Review of chat logs is not limited to reports for a particular area, but also reviewed overall to determine patterns of behavior if I understand things correctly anyway. So while someone you pm with something bad may not report you, support may still use that pm chat as evidence against you as proof of a pattern of behavior in game. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 17:59, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) First, you should know that full chat logs are not released. A few lines of chat may occasionally be provided to someone who has been in breach of the UA or RoC, to establish why their account was suspended or terminated. And the back-and-forth of conversation may be seen by the Support team member reviewing the records. However, the two-way conversation records are not given to the person charged with the infraction. Only the lines that he/she spoke will be exposed. And, at that, generally only a few lines are provided, where we may have many, many more in the full chat records.

We feel that when players are being suspended or are having their account terminated, it's appropriate for them to understand why. And, quite frankly, being able to provide lines of chat is usually helpful in making it very clear that "I didn't do it" or "I meant [rude word] in an entirely different way" just doesn't cut it. The Support Team is careful about what they release but I will share your comments with the team and discuss the matter with them at depth. -- Gaile 18:42, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile, I think you understood what I meant. Terra and Wyn seemed to have missed my point and query slightly. I just mean that if I called one person a stupid bitch and then that gets used in evidence against me, I'm pretty sure I would remember who I said that to and I don't make so many violations, so it would be unlikely that someone else would have reported me and I got picked up for both, so I think I would have a pretty good idea who reported me in that hypothetical situation. Knowing something like that could make me hesitant to report someone. Not trying to make an argument against using chat matter unrelated to original reports or anything, but I wanted some more information about under what circumstances chat logs are released. I could easily imagine someone being very, very pissed off at someone if they felt that person were responsible for an account termination. Misery 18:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I understand, Misery. And thanks for your comments. I want to emphasize that the CS Team does not rely on tickets or in-game reports for all that they do. There are many occasions when we observe an issue or notice a breach without a report being involved. For instance, I used to spend a couple of hours a weekend bot-watching in different outposts. Nobody reported those botters; I found and actioned them myself.
Players who are on warning, who are close to the line of a permanent termination for "Repeated Violations," will likely be monitored or randomly checked for compliance with the rules. If they are given a warning, by the way, is a courtesy -- it is not required, it is not something that any player should expect. A "Repeated Violation" termination can happen without warning. But I hardly need to mention that those people facing such a termination have to be well and fully aware of how close they are to getting the boot. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that multiple breaches can result in account termination -- in fact, the Conducts Breaches and Outcomes document makes that very clear, as does the User Agreement!
Anyway, as I said, I will discuss your concerns with the team. But I think it's unlikely that someone will be targeted by a player whose account is terminated because, more than likely, that player has been on watch, has been reported multiple times, and may have amassed a dozen infractions in a single day. So if just one is shared in a small chat snippet, it would be foolish for someone to leap to the assumption "I know who reported me," and even more foolish to try to "get back" at that person. -- Gaile 20:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I discussed this with the team at the lead / manager / director level, and we are comfortable with the processes in place for sharing chat clips. Two things of note: they are clips and not actual full logs and we don't share the clips all that often. But changing our policies to give team members discretion in doing so has been a good thing. It gives players greater transparency into the Support process and allows us to stem the back-and-forth discussions and address player's questions, arguments, and inaccurate protestations of innocence.
I'm not saying that errors are never made, but when you see most clips, there's nothing else for the person to say but "Ooops." :) -- Gaile 23:28, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I was just wondering, if a player gets reported for something that doesn't call for a time out/ban right away, does the player get some sort of flag on their account and after so many they get a time out/ban? Also does support ever contact a player to let them know that they might be getting close to a time out/ban? I was jsut wondering because your statement about "players on warning" and that made me wonder if support actually sends something to players so that they would know that they are doing things that could get them a perma ban. Not that I'm worried about ever getting reported or a time out/ban, I was just curious of how things like that worked and its ok if you can't answer for any reason.--BabyJ 13:31, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
We generally do not give warnings. The short suspension that players get is considered a form of warning, as explained in the Conducts Breaches and Outcomes document. This means that players who get the first suspension better shape up or they'll get a longer block and, possibly, an account termination for repeated violations. We feel it is best to have our team focused on addressing issues, not hand-holding people who are close to the edge and are facing a ban.
Despite what they try to tell in support tickets -- and believe me, we see a lot of attempts at creative excuse writing -- most people really do know when they've messed up, and they really do know when they're close to the line. -- Gaile 21:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Game Keys and Support Question

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Gaile, would someone from an NCsoft e-mail address ever ask me for my GW key when trying to find my play nc account info? Pkohler01 21:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

That sounds weird to me. PlayNC is not just GW, it's for all NCSoft games, and your account is created separately from any games you have, until you specifically link them (right? I'm not sure, but I think that's how this works, especially if you use different Emails to register the account and the game login). I don't see how just giving them the possible Email addresses you may have used wouldn't be enough, and what new info the key would give them that's going to help locate your NCS account. But I would like to see Gaile's answer on this one... Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:18, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
As weird as it is, they do, in fact, ask for account keys for certain account related issues. Any question you ask via the NCSoft online system should also be answered there, whereas an email copy of their response is sent to you. If the request for account keys was not made via the official NCSoft online support (which keeps a record of all correspondence), then you have a problem.
Remember, always respond only through the online system, so there is a record! 76.30.79.54 22:16, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
That's part of the problem, I need my play nc account info to respond through the online system. I've had to handle this thus far through the e-mail system. The e-mail is coming from an ncsoft.com email address and fits the exact format of all other mail I've received from them for support issues and I'm pretty sure I've spoken with this support rep in the past as well. Pkohler01 23:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Hold on just a bit, because I think there may be a mixup. There are two kinds of NCsoft Accounts: The NCsoft Master Account (formerly the PlayNC account) and the NCsoft Support Account. If you think about it, it would be strange to require that you know your master account info in order to... get your master account info. :)
Take a look at that email and see if there's something called an "Incident Number" on it. I can look it up and verify you're in the clear. What may look like an email may be, in fact, an actual support ticket. I'm happy to help you figure out if that's what you're seeing. -- Gaile 23:10, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't know that. The incident number is 090421-001627. Zach, the Guild Wars Account Support person, worked with me on this. I've retained the entire e-mail thread and can forward it to you upon request. Zach was able to get me back into my account. I think it was the Master Account, not the support account. Pkohler01 00:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey there, Pkohler. I see that all worked out, and yes, that message that you received were absolutely legitimate. I think the best thing to keep in mind is that since you initiated the contact, there would be little chance a "phisher" could get access to the incident number involved. If I got an email out of the blue saying, "Hey, give me your account credentials," I'd be suspicious, too! But since you initiated the contact, the verification that it was coming to you from us would lie in that incident number and in the fact that the entire thread would be forwarded to you, including your initial contact.
I hope that info helps, and I'm glad everything worked out OK for you. -- Gaile 04:34, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, Gaile! The people who helped me were unbelievably helpful. It was an excellent support experience. I appreciate you checking up on it for me. I need to be more careful methinks. Pkohler01 06:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I had to submit a ticket in hopes of recovering my account information. I didn't have the majority of the information they asked for. All I had was a mis-matched set of serial keys for three accounts; unknown as to what keys belong to what accounts, the correct street address, and three email addresses used to register the game with Anet. I hope I have as good of luck as you did Pkohler01. --Drakora 07:00, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Best of luck with it. I was fortunate in that I had marked many of my keys with the account they belonged to but, I couldn't find the original key I registered my primary account under. Fortunately support accepted another key that I had registered on that account, my NF collector key. If you had purchased anything from the in-game store on the account in question, keep the receipt they email you as it's another thing they might be able to use to identify the account and to confirm your identity. All in all, I had my account information in about 16 hours which is more than 12 hours longer than it would have taken if I didn't wander away from my desk for more than half a day. Something else that you might want to ask support about if you cant find your key is registering a new Master Account (whatever, the NC Soft account) and associating it with your GW account. It looked like their system would let you do that when I did the free storage pane signup. Pkohler01 03:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
@Drakora -- You'd be amazed at what the team can piece together. We've had the exact same situation before: A bunch of random access keys, several emails, etc. But in the end, the team is able to sort it out. Obviously, something like this takes more time. But I wonder, have you had a resolution yet?
@Pkohler -- Yes, the team can help with creating a Master Account, or can get things organized on that account. It's certainly worth asking about! -- Gaile 02:01, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Trouble Loading NCSfot Web Page

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hi Gaile. I am currently trying to create an NCSoft account so that I can access the free storage thing but it keeps loading REALLY slow for me. I then get to the image catch thing and the image expires before it even loads. I don't have this problem with other pages, including secure banking pages. 122.111.96.166 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure everyone's having that problem right now (I know I am). I'd give it a few hours, maybe even a day or two for the traffic to die down, then you should be able to get in. You've got plenty of time before the offer expires. Freedom Bound 17:14, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
It's true the site is super busy, and that's causing delays. We're sorry about that! I can tell you that the NCsoft Team is adding servers even as we speak, and we expect that will help address the issue. One tip: You might try later in the evening or in the earlier morning hours to see if that speeds things up. Now, does that mean "late evening US or Europe?" I mean, one is quite opposite from the other, eh? :) Still, I would guesstimate the busiest times would be from, say, 9:00 AM Pacific time (17:00 GMT) to about, oh, 9:00 PM Pacific (05:00 GMT). So give the offer page a try outside that hours, if you wish. And don't worry, the offer isn't going to expire right away! -- Gaile 20:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Just adding my two cents in, tried getting the free pane last night, kept getting an "image has expired" error while trying to make a NCsoft master account, (happened during the personal information section). I know you're not tech support for the website, but I'm just letting you know that it's currently impossible to do, and that if this happens all week and i can't get my free pane, i'm gonna cry -_- Deltaalphanova
It seems I'm not the only one being consistantly ripped off. Hell, NCsoft isn't even sending my the account activation code.-- anguard 14:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Next to Gaile ..Regina answered this in her journal too;
quote:The NCsoft team is doing the following to correct the issues and help improve and restore responsiveness:
*Old database hardware was replaced with new/faster hardware.
*They've upgraded a database used to manage web sessions, and they're rolling out an improved session manage
*There are rolling out new webservers very soon. The servers are being tested before coming online.
The team is very aware of the issues and they're continuing to work on them. We apologize for the slow load times and errors that some are experiencing. end quote.
--Silverleaf Special:Contributions/SilverleafDon't assume, Know! 16:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Buying Updates

Hi Gaile

A few users I've been playing with have expressed concern that the latest update is for sale. The reason I'm here is I figure a middleman might achieve more than a few I.P.s roari caps locking the odds.

The first thing they were angry about was paying for the extra Xunlai slots. Now, frankly, I'm rather inclined to liken them to character slots, and thus charging for them is something I can readily understand.

Another thing is that they find... unreasonable ? is that there's a charge for the makeovers, and... well, I'm sorry, I can certainly understand their point here. Charging for changing not adding to Guild Wars content is sorta where I'd personally draw the line. However, again I don't totally side with my friends on this, but I'm more neutral than on NCSoft's side with this one.

Now, changing the appearance of your character is one thing... but as understandable as charging for it may well be... charging for changing a name is, in my view, going that little bit too far. I ignored people who asked what kind of thank you etc. GW:EN was when we had to pay for it, as it was a game. But... I certainly wonder why we're paying for this.

I'll be the first to say this is all / mostly a matter of judgement; one perfect example is plenty of people probably judge a character's looks to be less worthy of a charge than the name. I just felt I'd try to draw your attention to this, as while I doubt decisions will be changed, little harm will come from ArenaNet / NCSoft getting feedback while the feedback is as respectful as possible.

I'm sorry if you resent me posting here; I've always felt you're a very reasonable, helpful person, and I suppose it's nice having a person you're talking to instead of just throwing a message out into the void.

I also apologise for this... somehow... being inexplicably longer than I expected. Consider I'm talking about three points, it's left me rather amazed that I ended up with such a WoT.

I did try to err on the side of being respectful and did my utmost to appear polite, and indeed more to the point; fair. Mostly as I don't doubt you'll do that so I wanted to return the favour... um... in advance. So thanks very much for reading my unholy-lenght-WoT, and if you have any thoughts I'd be delighted to hear them, be they similar or differing to my own.

Thanks again. --> A F K When Needed 18:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I was excited about the new surprise in-store items until I saw the prices. I think the regular 5 makeover credits are "ok" at $10 for 5, but the extreme makeover should be no more than $5, storage panes should be no more than $5. What really threw me was the $15 for a name change... I'm just wondering what possessed the whomever to decide that $15 for a SINGLE name change was fair, especially since offensive names get changed for free, after a small suspension. I don't mean to be rude or anything, I'm just very curious why so much... In my mind, I see all these upgrades being $5USD at most. In fact, if they were cheaper, I think people would buy more of them, and provide you with more income for the same amount of initial coding invested. I know you guys on the Live team don't decide the prices, but do you happen to know what the reasoning was for these rather high amounts?
On the other hand, I really really love what you guys did with Zaishen quests and the new items from the collectors, and almost filled my menagerie already (the moss spider might be a little problematic ^_^). Good job. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 20:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
You know you guys are free to post here any time. Normally, in a case like this, I'd probably ask you to share your concerns with the Community Team, since they're part of Marketing, and things like what to sell and how much to charge for it come from that area of the company. And you can sure share your thoughts with those folks, by all means!
But interestingly, what you've asked about is actually a potential support issue! One of the concerns that the Support Team has is ensuring that abusive players cannot hide from getting caught. If such players could freely change their character name(s), they could keep all their achievements but Support would have difficulty tracking them down. Most importantly, players build a reputation in the game -- good or bad -- and if they've gone on the path of The Dark Side(tm) for a while, it doesn't seem fair to have them rename to avoid their own history.
On the other hand, players legitimately might want to rename. For instance, I had someone write me last week asking to rename because he accidentally misspelled a word in his name. If it's important to him, now he can. But while we allow him to do so, we make it come at cost, so that people don't frivolously rename (every rename has associated costs to us, really) or rename to hide out. The price right now will probably prevent people from churning character names while allowing legitimate renames to move forward.
Does that make sense to you? :) -- Gaile 02:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Are you saying you have no way of keeping track of a character's history if the name is changed? That doesn't even make sense. It's still the same account. 99.151.149.75 04:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh, no, not at all! We can track identity, of course, it just takes a bit more time. If you think about it, you can see we can track across names by the fact that armor customized for a certain characters is still usable by that character even after a rename. So yes, the issue isn't with our team members tracking players. The issue is players being able to issue reports that are easily and quickly resolved and with players being able to identify people with whom they may have had issues in the past.
And again, the cost of the name changing service isn't solely predicated on potential support issues. As I mentioned, that is only one consideration. As with all things in business, there are many elements factored into every decision. -- Gaile 04:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
@ Rose - thank you! After previous... um... differences of view over on the other wiki, I was amazed and rather touched you were the first one here and "taking my side" so it were :-)
@ Gaile - thank you, too. I can understand the concern, but... it doesn't need to be uncapped. If Tolkano could change character names and account names (once every 30 days per name) then that'd solve the problem. I realize that'd also hit the cash flow, I'm just throwing ideas around.
If you'll forgive one more point... I know people with multiple accounts (largely for the Xunlai Tournament house) I fail to see how names changes for $15 is sufficiently different (although useful, if the same person is contstantly buying name changes, you know who to keep an eye on =]) --> A F K When Needed 10:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Hmm... I didn't connect your name with anyone I previously knew, just voiced my feelings on the matter. But I think I have a hunch about who you are. :) Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 18:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
There are costs associated with designing, implementing, and supporting new features. There is no plan to offer free character name changes. -- Gaile 21:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I've a Necromancer called Da Neck Row Man Sir. He once had Shing Jea armor. :P --> A F K When Needed 21:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Not that my 2 cents is worth anything but, I felt paying to change a character is a premium addition. Although I wish the character name change was good for more than one use, I have no problem with paying for it and would gladly pay again. As a matter of fact, I wish they'd offer more premium features in the store including new CE keys. I really don't feel this is any different from buying any other sort of expansion pack. 24.188.207.20 03:14, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Gaile has explained that.
The CE is ONLY for people who bought the game when it was new, and believed in ArenaNet enough to do so. Gaile went all the way to the top of the company and was told no, ArenaNet will NOT sell something which is exclusive to their first customers who had faith in them. And in many ways... depsite I simply hadn't heard of the game back then so obviously don't have a CE... I have to admit I admire them for it. --> A F K When Needed 11:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Rainbow Phoenix tameable by heroes - bug?

I'm hearing that if you have heroes with you and for the first time submit the rainbow phoenix to the menagerie, one will spawn in the area, and one hero is then able to tame it. Once you leave, this opportunity is lost forever. I don't know if this is the right place to post, but this sounds like a big bug to me, please make sure this is handled soon, and that any heroes who were able to tame one lose it or have it replaced with another pet. That, or make it available to heroes altogether. Thanks. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The team is aware of this issue. I do not know how they will resolve it, but yes, it definitely will be taken care of in a future build. Thanks, Rose. :) -- Gaile 02:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. :) Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 04:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Fixed April 28th. -- Gaile 00:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Almost. I hear the ones that were already tamed by heroes due to the bug have not been removed yet. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 03:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

NCsoft master account?

Hey there Gaile :) I, like many others, am still trying to get that storage upgrade :P. The problem the majority of people I've spoken to are having is well... none of us know what our account names are! :O Would be nice if we had some sort of function other than "Forgot your password?" which requires you to know your username anyway >.> -FireFox Image:User_FireFox_av.png 15:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree that this would be very handy. I noticed it myself yesterday when working with the store. While it wouldn't be possible to "plumb" this for the current offer, I will make this suggestion so that in the future this is more easily addressed by players, thereby allowing Support to focus on other issues that really require their intervention. I'm sure that would be of benefit to everyone. -- Gaile 21:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
If you look under where you put your username on the forgot password page, there is a link to contact support. They will help you find your username. NCSoft and PlayNC have the best support I have ever dealt with. I guarantee you they will have your problem fixed in a day or less.Talk page Drogo Boffin 23:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
This is excellent advice and it worked for me. It was a painless process. Pkohler01 03:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I am simply appalled with the NCsoft support system. My recent experience like many others I have seen posted or have talked to in game, illustrates how very little NCsoft values its customers. I regret that this experience has led me to the decision to never again purchase an NCsoft product, this includes GW2. Although I have had customer interaction with ANET support without incident and find this to be singularly an issue that NCsoft needs to address. Its a shame that such a wonderful game should be marred by such a horrific customer service. Oldtimer

{{ri}I have to add my two cents to this also. i have submitted 2 tickets both said you will have a reply in 24 hours. the first ticket has not been responded to in 4 days and the second has now entered the 2nd day. both are the same problem that we have had for some time.

We need NcSoft to add a simple button to the game. once you log into your accout they could add a button that lets you email to your game account address the user name for the account as recorded by NcSoft on the servers they use. I know that they should be able to do that God knows if i wanted to spend 30$ on stuff for my game account they could find the correct account to put it on. why they can not find this information i have no clue. i have totaly given up on ever getting an answer from them and am sure that the answer will be something like "its all your fault for not recording bla bla bla..." on a personal level if this is the support we can expect from them for future games i may take a pass and just go to a differant game company.

Gaile you have been an awesome contact and i have enjoyed time both in game and via forums etc with you. lol i wish you were in charge of the support people at ncsoft then things would be getting addressed much quicker or at least we would know that you were trying with all your talent and not have to sweat this. Rockweaver 14:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the double post but i have a 2nd dumb question. why do i need a differant log in for support than i do for my account at ncsoft? for support i need my email address but if i need anything else its accout based. why not the same for both this would fix the issue of trying to get our account names fixed.
also i tried to look up my first support ticket and can not find it..
Question Reference #090425-007409
Summary: i need help with my account and NC SOFT
Product Level 1: Guild Wars
Date Created: 04/25/2009 03:42 PM
Last Updated: 04/25/2009 03:42 PM
Status: Unresolved
Department: Game Support
i tried to use the link and could not log in it said "The login ID and password combination you provided is invalid or your account has been disabled. If you believe you may have mistyped either value, use the browser Back button to return to the login page and try again. If you believe you have forgotten your password, use the browser Back button to return to the login page and request that your password be emailed to you." yet this is the same email and password that "works" on my other support ticket i am beginning to think more than we know is broken at NcSoft. Rockweaver 14:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

NCSoft. Again.

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I'm getting this error;
"The specified account is already linked to another NCsoft account. Please contact Customer Support if you require additional help".
I never MADE an NCSoft account ever. So how do I go about getting my stolen account name back?-- anguard 15:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

If you created an account in the Guild Wars In-Game Store (which is a must if you want to purchase from there) you automatically created an NCsoft account. --MageMontu 15:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. But damn I don't remember the account. I'm sure it has a "forgot?" section.-- anguard 16:12, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't. Damn.-- anguard 16:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
ive made an acount before and cant remember name or pass is there anyway to get back --Nick123 16:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Vanguard just click on forgot password. Below where you put in your account name it says contact support. Click that and they will help you.Talk page Drogo Boffin 16:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I had the same prob, to get my info I've posted a ticket. After confirming it's your account (asking for your personal details and a scan of the keys of each game on that account) they will send you your username. For the password, just use the username they give you with the 'Forgot Password' option. --MageMontu 16:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't see any account options. All I see is all the upgrades, and on the top is "Checkout, View Cart, Exit". That's it.-- anguard 16:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I've meant submit a ticket on the NCsoft website. Tell them you forgot the details of your NCsoft Master Account. Give them your personal details (name, surname, address, DoB) and give them a scan of your game keys. --MageMontu 17:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Guh. That's not worth the trouble. Everything about the site seems bent on being against the users. I went to the "Forget password?" on the website and it wants my account name. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. Therefore, no free storage pane for me. I'll manage.-- anguard 17:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually it's not as difficult as you think, and as I said before if you submit a ticket requesting your NCsoft Master Account details, they'll give you your username with no trouble, after confirming it's the rightful owner of the account that is. Only takes like 5 minutes or less to fill a ticket. --MageMontu 17:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I'd rather not bother.-- anguard 19:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


Xiena's Hell... Continued
Well Gaile, I got the NC account I told you about active to the point to be able to play around with it. Now I'm logging into it, I go to the store, following the steps for the buy. and it comes back that my GW's account is already linked to another NC account. Now this is where the issue is. So I try to access the old NC account. I put in the Name, but since it was many years ago, I no longer know the password. So I ask for it to be sent. Well that fails because I fail the question part. To be honest even if it did work, the email account that pass may of been sent out to, may of also been updated over the years. *I'm not sure 100% about that. But I can't get a new pass to access the Master account now for this GW's account.. I sent all this to NC service, and still have heard nothing today from them... My thoughts at this time are.. My GW's account works, but will Never be able to be linked to NC ever again.. If the GW's gods where around, my simple question would be, Hey GW's God, can you just link this email to the dang' store please.. and poof ! have it done! But Life is not as easy as all that.. The real truth is the system needs to get off second party servers with the store automatically linked to the active accounts, to get rid of human errors that happen as time passes, Updates in email accounts, ect are a normal part of the Internet, as are the points of people moving from city to city, with the loss of needed codes/ info ect.. On a bigger note, I think what your starting to see here with others, as well as myself. Is a bigger Issue happening, One NC and GWs never thought about. With the older players having lost info due to all the store flip flopping through the years, Topped off with User inter phase, loss of info needed to gain access, I think the NC system needs to be wiped, and reconnected to the active GW's accounts *some how.. Again So sorry Gaile for tossing this in your direction.. Your a great Helper !, But I feel now that this is such a mess that I'll never get the accounts linked up again... Incident: 090424-003309 NC-support
Xiena UPDATE
GW's Service contact 02:00am (EST) David has informed me that my Issue is being moved to the NC Europe. They tell me to log into the NC site in Europe / and look under my stuff, and I should see it there now.. Not on the US server. Well, that's just not possible. After I log into the NC account I have active. ( I see my log in name up on top ) As soon as I hit the Support Tab, It logs me out! Then when I hit my stuff it prompts me for an ID again, and fails to work. I really hate how bad this site is set up.. It also try's to send me back to the US server.. Gaile if you know these ppl, lets just deal with it through email.. Unless you have a better answer, The account is owned by Christina & Michael in case that gives anyone more confusion. That's my update on this for now. I will keep you informed.. Xiena 06:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Xiena UPDATE 2
NC-Service contact 03:00 )EST) Shaun Replied with a request for Account Info.& Details I replied with all possible detail I could give. Also added, If this was not good enough, to reply & I would give a good time to call, and make direct contact.. Xiena 09:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Please look at the contact information I have provided above. You may telephone about this matter if you desire. Keep in mind, many people have issues every day, and they are resolved in a satisfactory manner. I would prefer not to have an hourly update on these pages. Let me know if you have not heard in 48 hours. That is not an unreasonable amount of time to give, give this is the weekend, we're in the midst of a major update and a new offering, and the team has already been in contact with you multiple times. -- Gaile 19:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Almost fixed 4/29
Well, The Super Support Team worked very hard with me, and so far we have half the problem fixed. I resubmitted a ticket Yesterday, Due to simple Password Issues. I know they are backed up with issues, and the new updates. I feel they will get this fixed in due time now. If not, I'll give them a ring. Thanks Gaile for all you've done so far ! Xiena 11:34, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
5/01 Master Account Info given, Password still no response from Support on return
ticket sent 04/28 and another sent 04/30. I have pretty much given up on ever having the account linked to the store now. It's becoming more trouble than it's worth. The UK Team of support told me to update through the NC log in, in the area of Mystuff, since they moved it to the UK, I found that very funny since I can't get into that account to do such an action. On the start of this I did make clear there where 2 issues, the Main account name, as well as the password. Well, seeing as I got a How did we do report request from NC, ( that I did not fill out) and had just sent a return request ticket for the pass. I'm guessing Support thought the issue closed.
oh well Gaile sorry I've upset you with my lack of understanding of wikki, or the badly set up NC site.. It's not your fault. nor was it my point to reflect myself in this manner, So sorry again. I won't take up anymore of your time, good day Xiena 02:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
It's no trouble at all, Xiena. I know the team will continue to work with you. One of the problems could be that they've received multiple tickets about this issue, and even if there are two issues, they will probably need to merge the tickets into one -- usually the first ticket -- and then let the player know that they've done so. If the player continues to respond to both tickets, it gets really muddled, so if you could please update on your first ticket, I think it will go more smoothly. I do hope this will soon be resolved. -- Gaile 02:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Gaile, I had been using the same ticket all along, till May 1st when I received 0 reply from NC Support for a number of days. That I gave up and launched my last attempt to GW's Support. I received a response from that ticket, [Incident: 090502-000491] telling me they where moving it to a lead support person, that was on May 3rd. I have yet to hear a word since. I am tracking this now on my page. This is my very last attempt, Thanks for your time and understanding Gaile !, Your a good soul !, The system is a bad soul ! Xiena 19:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) A thought: there should be an option in your GW game client to "unlink" that account from any NCsoft accounts (and delete the unlinked account as well), so that it can be re-linked to a new one. A GM confirmation or a waiting period before the change could be implemented to prevent this becoming a problem with stolen accounts. This may or may not be feasible, but would surely help people like Xiena. Another option is to retrieve your linked NC account info through your GW client. I myself forgot I had an NCsoft account until I saw the message that my GW account was already linked, but had the luck of figuring out what it was, since there are only a few choices I ever use for account names and passwords. Now only to update all that 3+ year old info... Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 20:12, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I have the same problem, I seemed to have linked it to a NCsoft account before but can't remember my account name :/ I do hope they can do something about this before this expires InfestedHydralisk 11:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't even remember what email address i used.QQ.--207.172.193.204 19:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
This is really going to work out, guys. I appreciate you want the free storage panel right away, but the offer runs for a month and more beyong today. :) Please give Support time to respond -- they're handling many tickets, but they're handling them quickly and they will get to yours as soon as they are able.
There is no option to unlink your account, and that is not planned. The Support Team can and will help you with your credentials. -- Gaile 19:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Account Ban-NCsoft store

Hi Gaile, I tried to take advantage of the new makeover option yesterday and when I woke up this morning my account had been perma banned for payment fraud. My support ticket #090425-005192. Can you please look into this for me so that I don't have to miss the entire event. I would appreciate any help you give me. Thank you.

Carolyn Brust --75.72.218.34 16:30, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, but I do not have the tools to review credit card issues and I would not be able to assist you. Clearly you've submitted a ticket to the proper team members who will assist you, so please continue to work with Support to address this issue. -- Gaile 21:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your answer Gaile, Cari is soooo upset about this. --Wyn's Talk page Wyn 21:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
This happened to me when I added an EOTN key through the store to one of my accounts. I called the NCSoft support phone number on their website and they had it resolved in a matter of minutes. I thought maybe I had typoed my card number or something but, they said I hadn't when I confirmed my card number. It was an odd thing but, they took resolving it for me very seriously. I think I was locked out of my account for a total of 90 minutes. Pkohler01 03:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I said it above but I will say it again NCSoft has the best customer support I have ever dealt with. Anybody that says they dont care about their players has never actually talked to anybody that works for NCSoft or Anet.Talk page Drogo Boffin 03:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
i lol'd hard drogo -Auron 03:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Good for you Bro or Brah, I hope you feel better.Talk page Drogo Boffin 03:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Carolyn -- I just had dinner with some of the Support Team members, and they told me a very, very tiny number of players were hit with a "payment fraud" issue. Looking at your ticket, I do not think you have yet had a response. I will try to expedite this for you. -- Gaile 04:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Carolyn -- Can you please confirm that your account has been reinstated and that all is well? -- Gaile 22:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing this for me, I appreciate your helping me get this all taken care of. All fixed now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carolyn (talk • contribs) at 18:31, 5 May 2009 (UTC).

UP DATE or gift for leeching

"The one thing that I had hope for was too see something done about the leeching prob" and yes the update did something there is now even more of it going on with the Zan quest wen if ever will a/net do something about this prob that benerfits the players and not the leechers?

There is no perfect fix for this. Anet is aware of this issue all the time, and are doing their best to keep it down, but I don't think it's technically possible to eradicate it entirely. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 22:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm really sorry, but I don't know how to respond, or won't know until I know where what quote is from.
Every week, I bring up three problems I believe relate to this issue: leeching and botting in Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, Alliance Battles, and other key areas as well as the problems related to having a less-than-robust /report system. I mention that at present, good players who want to help, and who use /report, may be penalized, and the person who deserves to be blocked may not get a single mark because of the system that we have in place. We are keenly aware of this problem -- no denial, no "brush under the carpet." I cannot say exactly when this will be addressed, but I can tell you that the whole team knows of the problems that players are experiencing, and all of us are committed to improving both how we address players who exploit or abuse the system as well as the way we support those who help us by reporting. -- Gaile 02:04, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
I say just give those who've received the Dishonor hex more than a certain number of times a very loooooong time out. Then maybe I'll be able to win in JQ. Le sigh. :D --★KOKUOU★ 08:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Gaile, I'm glad you're considering a way to improve the anti-leech system, but I'm not sure if you're aware that Alliance Battles are probably one of the least afflicted arenas in PvP. The two that suffer the most are probably Fort Aspenwood and the Jade Quarry, to the point that many players have given up on playing at those arenas entirely because of how bad the leeching is. I understand you're busy, I just wanted to point out that AB isn't the only place where leeches gather. --Jette 09:34, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, Jette -- you're absolutely right! I used AB incorrectly: I meant to say JQ/FA! I will amend my post, and thanks for pointing that out. -- Gaile 20:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Gaile, has the support team tried salt? I here that gets rid of leeches fairly quickly.  ;) --Shadowphoenix 15:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Another common practice for removing leeches is to apply a hot coal to them... a new method must be devised however when a coal of sufficient size would be more harmful to the person than to the leech >< MrPaladin 16:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I use salt on the horrendous, frighteningly huge Pacific Northwest slugs that infest this area of the world. But I had forgotten about the application of salt to remove leeches. (Shame on me: The African Queen -- that classic movie -- has a great leech/salt scene!) Anyway, I will be sure to tell the Support Team about this possible use. Also, Marketing may be interested. You never know, perhaps we can get some sort of cross promotion with Morton Salt. Maybe someday you'll hear, "When it rains, it pours... and you can hear the cries of dissolving leeches all over Tyria."  ;) -- Gaile 02:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

How Legal is My Macro?

Hi Gaile, I recently received my new mouse, the Microsoft SIDEWINDER X5, and its got 2 programmable buttons that I can set up macros for. So I set up the Maintain Shadow Form chain and another to goto Budger to get bombs then drop 26 of them and to wait inbetween getting the bomb and dropping it. All I do is press a button and it does both of those things, I still have to run around and get aggro and stuff, but it is legal to do that? or am I breaching a rule? A little light would go a long way! Thanks! -Stu DarthD 07:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I recommend that you stop doing it until you get a response to be safe. -- Image:User Gordon Ecker sig.png Gordon Ecker (talk) 08:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
See these responses to similar questions: Macros and G15 Keyboard. (Short version: ANet doesn't condone macros (risk of malware) and in any case would never be able to bless any specific macro (keep bot-makers guessing).) Your example also sounds like it gives your characters a significant advantage over other players' chars, something specifically addressed in the EULA (see section 7). Tennessee Ernie Ford 09:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I have it set up so it doesn't drop 26 at once, but in sequence like you would spamming space+b(my drop item button), I guess you could say its mimicking a user doing it, I mean its not like I just go off and sit watching tv while my character runs ins and outs of this area farming these without me there, I manually control everything besides from casting sf and dropping bombs124.178.139.111 17:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Didn't log in sorry DarthD 17:39, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
It is still an advantage, and a big one. If you do it manually, you have the risk of casting shadowform too late, or forgetting the glyph, or whatever, and the macro removes that possibility completely. The Budger clicking is not as "offensive" but still gives you the advantage of just watching it happen, instead of bashing on your keyboard to make it happen manually and getting calluses and carpal tunnel (/joke). Having keyboard/mouse button shortcuts to certain game functions from the Control menu is perfectly fine, but setting up elaborate macros of combinations of these shortcuts is not, in my mind at least. You get an advantage over anyone who does not have a macro-capable mouse. This is basically small-scale wanna-be botting: you do part of the work, while the macro does the rest for you. A bot is nothing more than a very elaborate macro that does not require human input beyond logging in, going to the right town, and hitting "Start." So far you only got answers from other players, but I would advise you to not use it until you get an official answer from Gaile, which will likely be the same as ours: don't. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 22:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I guess you could say its mimicking a user doing it there's already a red flag for you. You basically are saying that something other than you is doing things for you. That's bad. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 22:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
With sf, you have to time when to press the macro, is what I've found, and if you don't do it exactly when it recharges then it drops, and me being a human, I can only hit that on rare occasions, I've stopped using these macros, but I would like an official response from Gaile.124.178.139.111 02:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
IGN: Ranger At SoulDarthD 03:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
According to the EULA...
"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."
So according to this, using a mouse + keyboard is not permitted due to giving players advantages over those who don't use one or the other (You apparently are not aloud to assume that a EULA means something, so there can not be a common sense factor to these things. If the side that wrote it starts making assumptions on it then you can put forth your own as well). You also can't use any hardware or software that is not authorized by NC Interactive, I have sent in a couple of support tickets to see if some documentation about these items exist. I have not found anything anywhere on NC Soft related sites, it's been 3 days since I sent in my support tickets to ascertain whether this information exists or not. If it doesn't or at least is not free to the public you are free to use anything not directly specified in the Guild Wars EULA. If it does exist then your mouse and/or keyboard type could be grounds for banning you. When I get a reply from support I'll post what they say here. If it turns out that NC Interactive does not have documentation for what is not authorized people could have potentially been banned for not breaking any agreement. As for macro's, they define input as being done by humans. If you push your macro button that's human input, and since their unfair advantage is so poorly defined that people using a mouse and keyboard fall under it you can argue hypocrisy if you get banned and the rest of the guild wars community doesn't.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 18:15, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, they also DO condone sync entering, so I doubt that significant advantage argument holds much weight. Surely anyone would agree that abusing sync entering gives players an unfair advantage over others. It's an exploit of the current RA entering code and it should be punishable under your quote from the EULA/CoC. But Anet does nothing. Also, Vent is a third party tool used to give PvP teams an edge, and that edge is huge vs. teams with no voice communication. It would be utterly ridiculous to ban its use. 68.51.95.206 18:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Let's be more accurate: We do not "condone" synchronized entry into missions. We do not currently take action on the accounts of those who do it; at the present time, it is allowed as a "permitted strategy." I would say there is a difference between not taking action against something and actively condoning its use. There is a tremendous difference between counting down to enter a map and using hardware that auto-plays the game, or gives someone the ability to, say, AFK while leveling.
I do not think that the programming mentioned in this thread is permissible, but I could be mistaken. I will verify that. -- Gaile 04:39, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The kind of macro he's talking about does not let you AFK. It isn't botting, it's using your computer to time and execute button presses for you so you don't have to time them/press them yourself. The complexity of a macro varies. For example, say you want to make it so you only have to hit one button instead of three buttons for you to maintain Shadow Form. You could program your macro to hit the button 1, 2, and 3 successively thus activating skill slots 1, 2, and 3, all with only one button press. You can take this concept further and make the macro repeat itself right when Shadow Form is about to run out. The player would still have to press other buttons himself, like wasd for positioning and mouse clicks or tab/c space for targeting, not to mention any unmacro'd skills. So I guess the question is where is the line drawn between illegal botting and a simple macro that fires off 3 button presses with 1 button press? 68.51.95.206 06:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Here [2] is my response from support. I asked NC Soft initially, but it seems my ticket was forwarded to the Guild Wars support team. I have asked for specification of automated software and hardware as it is not clearly mentioned in the EULA. It looks like they might not have the correct documentation for these things, even still they could just fall back on the 3 times they mention "we can void the term agreement at anytime."~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 22:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
I squeezed for everything I could [3]. Basically they don't care if you use macros as long as you are at your computer and the macro sequence isn't capable of doing much without other input from the user.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 22:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there an actually answer to this question, as in a straight NO or a straight YES, not the whole, its okay if it doesn't break the EULA which can misunderstood, and even then it's down to watch the employees think is right, blah blah blah. DarthD 09:12, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Well imo the keyword is "human interaction" (and not once in 24h ;) ). Come on how big can the advantage be for someone using a macro like this. Then also ppl with fast reflexes can't play, cuz they will have an advantage to other people as well. He still has to be there, he still has to push the buttons and move. Just a few buttons less. It wouldn't bother me if all the people in the world would use this and I couldn't. --User_talk:DewdropPepper - Dewdrop talk 09:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to this. It has indeed been a long while! What I did was present to the Live Team my thoughts on the matter, asking them for approval, modification, or rejection of the statements. Fortunately for all of us, they've approved the following:

  • PvE Gamplay: As long as you are at your computer and are actively playing the game, we’re ok with what you’re doing. As soon as the game plays itself – as soon as you can walk away and the computer continues to play – you’re in breach of the Rules of Conduct and you are subject to account sanctions, which can involve an account suspension or an account termination.
  • PvP Gameplay: The use of macros that give an advantage in competitive play is strictly prohibited and if it is reported and/or detected, we will research the activity and take the appropriate action on the account, which can affect both tournament eligibility and the account holder’s ability to continue to play Guild Wars, either with a temporary suspension or an account termination.

I hope that answers the questions that you have. I'm not able to give detailed responses to the various scenarios or systems or programs, but I think the information provided should enable you to figure out the official position in the various usages that were initially mentioned. -- Gaile 21:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

"The use of macros that give an advantage." Doesn't that tell people macros that let people be lazy are okay? Since, a player who would normally perform a sequence of actions can just set it to a single button. No competitive edge is gained as it is simply player habit being made a bit more concise, in fact a macro could result in a loss of competitive edge as a sequence that was desired may change quickly to something else. Just playing devil's advocate by pointing out the loose ends.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 04:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Thank You gaile, it has to some extent answer my questions and I know it answered a few for my guildies. Even though it isn't detailed on what we can and cannot do, it is still a rough guide, which is still good. And thank your for your commitment to finding out the answer. Cheers. Stu 15:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Radical yet Simple

Hi Gaile I’m sorry to dump this on but I like many others have come to you for long time now to voice our concerns about the problem of leeching in the game and you have always taken on board what we had to say and passed it on to the team. All we ever got back from them was fine words ie we understand/we are looking into it and so on. With the April update I had hoped we would see something no matter how small get done to elevate the problem but alas no. What we got is the Zaishen Combat something that rewards lechers’ even more now not only can they leech alliance and Balthazar(+ get bonus amounts)but now they can also leech Zaishen coins and gold to. So I have come up with a radical yet simple idea to end at least 90% of the leeching just let the leechers submit a support ticket asking to have their alliance title maxed out and give them as much Balthazar faction Zaishen keys and coins as they want. So they will have no need to leech and the people that want to play the game as it is meant can get on and do so.

True Arrow San

And... everyone will do this to get their titles, and then go play the game without feeling like they have to AB/TA/etc, only when they want to. Great idea... How about cartographer unlock maps from Sekai the Mapmaker for 100g per zone? And free vanquisher credits for killing a boss in HM? Or account-wide guardian? Or free zcoins and zkeys when you /beg? Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:05, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm down with that --Drakora 19:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

When I made this post I did not think anyone would take it as anything other than my light-hearted attempt to get across my frustration at the problem of leeching in the game. And the fact that that with the introduction of the Zaishen Combat the problem as just got bigger. From almost the day Factions went on sale we have had a problem with leeching and nothing as ever got done about it apart from you can now get band for reporting leechers. Also I must apologise Rose Of Kali I appear to have mist the post about your appointment as PA to Gaile and I would modestly suggest you look at how Gaile replies to post from players she is always understanding considerate and polite no matter how much people are flaming her in fact she is always the Lady

True Arrow San once more sorry for dumping this on you Gaile True Arrow San

I guess sarcasm does not work on the Internet. :( Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 02:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
rofl 99.144.228.152 02:16, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Jaha Rats...*should have waited for the updates to end and get automatic-Gwamm instead of playing my bu..ehind off. But then again...I did see every Nook and Cranny in all the campaigns and still don't know everything they dreamed up and made virtual. And am still enjoying GW BIG TIME.* --Silverleaf Special:Contributions/SilverleafDon't assume, Know! 10:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) *insert JOKE ALERT warning, so this isn't taking out of context: "We will continue to examine ways to give everyone all titles at Level 1 and end anyone's need to expend effort." *end JOKE ALERT*

And yes, to confirm, I'm just joining in the joking. :) -- Gaile 04:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that joke alert has to be the next best thing to actually causing the keyboards of people who don't get it to emit high voltage current ;). --Star Weaver 19:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh yes, Gaile! *moans* Can't wait to see the results! Maybe now I won't have to spend 750 hours on my new ranger to get that "gay" bird! Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
No, it's a stupid idea because, well, you still have to take the time to log into the bloomin' game! We need to automate that even more! ;) -- Gaile 01:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Update: Free Pane Promotion Issues

Here's the official word on the free pane promotion from the ArenaNet and NCsoft Marketing Teams: "The NCsoft website is experiencing unusually high traffic. Due to site performance issues we ask that players please try redeeming their storage later in the week. Players have until May 31 to redeem, so there's plenty of time! We apologize for any inconvenience." Thanks! -- Gaile 01:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

In the meantime, I will do homework as I wait for support to get my ticket. I'm on a long, long list of people who made a playNC account who cant get their stupid keys to add into the account and suspect they already have one and have no knowledge of it. >.>" I'm not complaining though, as long as I eventually get it. Katherinezoltin 13:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) A awful lot of people are not aware that they have an NCsoft Master Account. But if you've ever shopped in either the NCsoft Store, the PlayNC store, or the In-Game store, you do have such an account.

If you find you cannot remember your account name, then of course you can't recover your password. But why not save yourself some time? Here is what Support will need to know from you:

  • Your name
  • Your game account name(s)
  • Your address
  • Your birth date
  • Your access keys (if you have any keys, which would be super helpful)
  • The last four digits of the credit card(s) that you used for NCsoft Store or Guild Wars In-Game Store purchases
  • The air-speed velocity of an unburdened swallow. European please. (Ok, we really don't need that last bit. :D )

Also, I always suggest this for fastest servicer: Please submit your ticket using the email account that is your game user name, if at all possible. In other words, if you have four or five email accounts, and you still have access to the email account that you used as your game user name, please send from that account.

Oh and lastly, I want to say that all this information isn’t all required in order for Support to help a player. But the more of these things that folks can send at the beginning, the more easily we can address their issues. All information is kept confidential so there are no worries about sharing this with the team in a support ticket.

With this info, you will get the fastest service possible. The team is putting in a lot of overtime to get these resolved just as quickly they can! -- Gaile 05:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Information for Multiple Game Owners

If you have more than one game account on your NCsoft Master Account, you should know the steps to get your free panel on each and every game account you own:

  1. Go to the [promotion page]
  2. Log into your NCsoft Master Account
  3. Select one game account
  4. Follow the remainder of the steps to get the free panel
  5. Then – fully log out of the NCsoft Master Account and close the browser
  6. To get the free panel on another Guild Wars account, do a fresh log on to your NCsoft Master Account, select the second account, and move through the process again

Or, to put it more briefly, the player should log off NCsoft, reopen the browser, and log back onto the NCsoft Master Account for each game account, instead of trying to add all free panels in a single session or using "back" on the browser. -- Gaile 01:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

"But if you've ever shopped in either the NCsoft Store, the PlayNC store, or the In-Game store, you do have such an account." Huh? I didn't realise that.
Perhaps when we are on our accounts and go to the Store it should have our account name or something (I don't remember filling out such account information when I made a purchase, but my memory sucks), cos this just seems like a massive mess that could have been avoided. 000.00.00.00 01:30, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
It would be real nice to have the name auto-populate the browser, and some OS (OSes? OS's, OSsssss? ;) ) allow that and you can set your personal computer to do so. We don't reveal the account name as a point of security. And the issue with retrieval is that some people use bogus info, or they have a dozen email addresses they can't keep straight, or they use an account name instead of an email address (which is preferred, actually) and forget they were FredTheBear as their account name. All of that or any of that means they need help from Support to learn their account information.
We're not just handing out the account name and password, of course, but if we can get enough proof to be sure that the person who is writing is the owner of the account, we will provide the information necessary to access the NCsoft Master Account and from there, getting the free panel is simple. :) -- Gaile 01:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Of course, I understand ^_^ I bet if I my(peoples) account(s) had the name when I(they) look in the store through through Guild Wars it'd jog my(their) memory maybe. I have too many user names and passwords :P That's it, everything is to going to 000 and abc123... well... maybe not :P 000.00.00.00 01:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Just for reference, I got the panel one three game accounts on my single master account without having to log out of the site. Although, only one of those accounts was previously attached to the master account, so maybe that had something to do with it.--Pyron Sy 01:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I had some fits and starts in trying to get my panels over the couple of days. But hey, it was a chance to test things and get out some info that might help others, so I'm feeling all virtuous about it now. ;) -- Gaile 02:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Important Note for Those Submitting Tickets

If you are experiencing a game or account issue, that last thing you want to do is to delay getting a response. And yet, many players do just that by submitting multiple tickets, or by sending from an email account that takes time to verify. Here are two tips for you:

  • Multiple Tickets: If you have a support issue, please do not file multiple tickets. Multiple tickets on the same issue must be merged into a single ticket. That process takes time, meaning everyone hears back less quickly, including you!
  • Email Address: If at all possible please submit your ticket using the email account that is already associated with your game account. If your user name is [name]@Hotmail.com, but you also have email accounts with Yahoo, Gmail, your ISP, or others, please try to send from the email that's already your game user name or that is the contact email address on your NCsoft Master Account. (If you cannot send from that email address, no problem -- just do so if you can.)

With your attention to these two suggestions, the teams will be able to help you more quickly and efficiently. Thanks! -- Gaile 00:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I posted this note in a separate thread below, and it does apply to any support issue, not just those related to the free storage pane promotion. I'm going to also post the tips here, though, so it's offered in one tidy set, as well. -- Gaile 02:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
So, is it time to panic yet? Support is clearly overwhelmed, since they're stalling, and the month is about to end. Backsword 20:37, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
The promotion was extended to June 30. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 23:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Promotion Extended

Players now have until June 30, 2009, to claim their free 4th Anniversary Storage Pane. Please see the promotion page for more info. -- Gaile 21:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Final Update

Although the 4th Anniversary Free Storage Pane Promotion ended on June 30, 2009, I wanted to let you know that any players who reported a support issue concerning this promotion as of June 30th will continue to be served by the Support Team. Those who qualified to receive the free storage pane will be assisted in receiving it. -- Gaile 16:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Info for those Still Struggling with getting free storage

I have been fighting for a while with my PlayNC account, trying to make it accept my GW account, and I thought I would try something interesting. I decided to watch it as I enter in my password and email, making sure that there wasn't a weird character limit. Sure enough, with my password there was! Seems 16 characters is too much for PlayNC's site. So, I changed my password and tried again and sure enough, I have extra storage. ^^ So, if ANYONE is having link problems, please try to make sure you don't have a super long password. I think the limit is around 14 characters, so please double check. I told the support people who were helping me about this, it should help them solve a few of their cases. And, something Gaile might want to do, have PlayNC change their requirements for GW passwords up to the max that GW has for passwords. Keeping the same character length will stop more issues in the future, at least in my opinion. Katherinezoltin 08:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Excellent input, Katherine! Folks -- check your password length!
In reading your recommendations, though, I want to strongly encourage people to have totally different passwords for their game and their NCsoft Master Account. So having a different password length in the two systems could actually encourage that difference, which in my opinion is a positive thing. Anything that keeps accounts more secure sounds good to me! -- Gaile 19:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, Katherine! Thank you, Katherine! Thank you, Katherine! It turns out this is what was preventing me from adding my other accounts to PlayNC, because my GW passwords are normally 16 chars long. Changing them to 12 chars long worked. And I've been pulling my hair out for over a week. Knowing that I've been entering the correct account details, but having the NCsoft site reject the account link. Anon-e-mouse 03:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
No problem, but Gaile, I ment that when you enter in your *GW password* for *linking*, the NCsoft site's max length and GW's max length requirements aren't the same. NCsoft is shorter. I say NCsoft should extend on their end, as it would be easier. And no problem, I figure that this place would be where the most traffic would be regarding this issue. I know people who are frusterated and pulling out their hair because they are in line for eternity to get what they see as little feedback. I know they seemingly confused my issue several times. >.>" Katherinezoltin 08:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
This post makes me nostalgic for the old days, or the old days that I imagine. Years ago, it seems we got a little more help. "Your password is incorrect, please try again." or "You are trying to set up your account with a password that exceeds the allowed number of characters; please choose one between X and Y." If I adorn my mind's eye with rose-coloured glasses, I might "recall" a truly gentle system, one that said, "Oh, sorry! That's not quite the right password, but you're only off by a few letters, so keep trying!" (Ok, I'm just kidding about that one. ;) )
Nowadays we get "You have failed. Your user name, password, hair color, clothing style, or facial expression may or may not be correct. Please try again. The electroshock penalties will begin in 15 seconds." :D :D -- Gaile 02:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Tell them to start giving less vague exceptions (error messages in C++)! At least mine are funny when I write them. "OMG! Your passwords totally doesn't match! Can't you copy and paste?" ^^" Katherinezoltin 20:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Somewhat amusing error messages: OK. Error messages that are both ungramattical and insulting and would make me want to stab my monitor in hopes of causing whoever wrote it's computer to asplode (or, really: grumble and complain ;)): not OK. --Star Weaver 22:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Lack of sense of humor and too much stress to be relieved on inanimate objects: not OK. ;) Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 23:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Normally I use those type of messages in personal programs, ie, ones that will never see the light of day except when I drag them out. I wouldn't normally insult someone, atm I just wasn't very creative at examples. I'm out of school for the semester now so maybe I will get some creativity back, didn't mean to insult anyone. >.>" Katherinezoltin 20:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for update guys, I had this problem 8 months back when I attempted to purchase the bonus skill packs. I called support because I could not get into my PlayNC account. The guy I talked to was clueless on how to help with the error message, I also figured this out 3 months later after a few hours of intense sessions. Crazy enough, I never bothered to claim the free storage panel or go back again for the core skill pack because the support for online purchasing is non-existent and I do well enough to remember my online banking password. Maybe I can hack back into my account now that I remember how I did it last time with shear luck. User:Thoromire Titanis 10:04, 27 July 2009 (EST)

Reporting In-Game Account Buyers

Hi Gaile, I hope I'm posting in right place, please move if not. I was wondering what is the right option from the report menu for people who offer 100k-900k for various game keys and accounts, including buddy/trial keys, and accounts with 4+ lvl 20 chars (some of the ads I've seen, obviously targeting to steal accounts). So far I've used the botting box, if I'm successful. The big problem is that they swap districs faster than you can type /report botnamedude, and avoid detection. Is botting the correct option? And if so, can it be made so that the target does not need to be in your district to submit a botting report? Or possibly make a new box just for this kind of thing, and make it district independend? I don't know what the best way would be, but I think players would be of tremendous help to your team with reporting these guys and cutting their profits much sooner, hopefully discouraging some of them from trying again due to low profits. The faster they get reported and banned, the less damage they do, and the less money they make. But as it is now, there is no viable way to report them. I know you are all keenly aware of the situation, but I'm just wondering if you guys are thinking about any alternatives to the current reporting system, which flat out does not work in this situation? Thanks. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 07:34, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd think Spamming is better, since it points whoever looks at these reports directly at the chat log. And yeah, the /report function should be updated so that you have a minute or so to report people that left the district, because right now you have to wait for them to come back and report quickly, or go out of your way to submit a support ticket. — Poki#3 My Talk Page :o 12:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, I assumed the guy was a bot because the message was always the same, and he seemed to hop districts at regular intervals, but you may be right about pointing to the chat log. I think I use both interchangeably sometimes, as I'm never really sure which one is right. Regardless, I'm sure they'll figure out what the problem is just looking at his activity before the report. I'd still like to see a separate function for them, but oh well. I just sat there spamming /report badguy repeatedly until he came back around and I caught him. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 17:22, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I recommend that you use "spamming" as the reason when you report in-game account buyers or sellers. I have asked the team to consider allowing cross-district reporting, but there's no word yet on whether that will be coming in the future. Thanks for your help in getting the advertisers out of the game! :) -- Gaile 20:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to report them at Botwatch. – Barinthus 16:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Ooh, very nice, didn't know about this. TY Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Instead of cross-district reporting, might it be easier to limit the speed at which one can change districts? In other words, require that your avatar has to stay in the selected district for 30 seconds, or a minute. Or limit the number of district changes in a certain amount of time. Either one, or a combination of the two (two changes, then a time limit) would slightly inconvenience real people, if you're trying to meet up with friends in a busy district, but make reporting easier, and slow down the bots. Of course, I have no idea which of these things (if any) is possible to implement or easier to program. :) Freedom Bound 12:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Ehm that would really suck^^ I would get pissed if i get (U have 30sec until you can leave this district, so that if people want to report you they have plenty of time :>) 80.203.134.22 18:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I have to admit, I'm not a fan of the delay-to-leave system. Let's see how the Live Team feels about this matter and what they feel the best solution will be. We certainly want our /report system to be a robust and effective as possible. -- Gaile 02:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Just make /report work on any character in the game, online and offline, including NPCs. 99.142.23.15 06:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Found one of those tonight when going to open the Zchest. He's now the subject of a support ticket...*grins evily* I love ruining the day of those who do seriously anti EULA things. ^^ Katherinezoltin 07:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Another Banned Account Apparently for Botting

Hi, I am writing this (and being my first GWWiki post, hope it works) for a good friend of mine who in game has the name "Miss Gags", he doesn't have access so I am doing this for him. he was banned on the 15th April for boting and has since been trying to get his account back (support ref# : 090415-002324). He is adamant he has not used a bot, just been doing speed clears and some offline faction farming in Amatz Basin (the heroes do the work, you just start the mission and flag them every 13 mins). He is so close to GWAMM title and has put alot of effort into that account. Support are just closing all requests now without responses. Please can you have a look and try and get them to look again. We all want him back in the guild, I have played with him for 3 years so he is a good friend. Thanks for your time. Taffy - 02:22, April 30, 2009

I am moving this newer post into chronological order. New posts go at the bottom of the page. Thanks for understanding.
Secondly, anyone has access to the Guild Wars Wiki, so I'm not sure why your friend is not posting here himself. I have looked at the ticket and learned that the team has reviewed the situation at least twice already. Apparently there were very few hours over several days when your friend wasn't "playing" the game. Even if he was afking, I guess I don't see how it would be possible to flag and re-flag heroes for so long (it does require attention many times an hours) without some breaks for sleep, food, etc. So I will inquire about the matter, but it remains to be seen if this will be settled any differently. -- Gaile 02:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Oops sorry Gaile, thought newest was at the top but should have looked closer, thanks for looking into this. He hasn't posted here as he has virtually given up trying to get his account back (been several weeks) but I'm not letting him give up so easily :)
I'll pass this info on and get back to you (or get him to write here...). Just wondering why would support not let us know these reasons? They refused to give any info into why he was banned. Now he can try and defend himself knowing why you thought he was using a bot. OK, I understand if you told everyone why they were banned then they would know what they have to work around next time, but it's very difficult to put forward a case if you do not know the reasons. Anyway, thanks and we will get back to you. Taffy 07:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
OK, had a chat with, most of his reasons are personal so not sure how much I should write here. Anyway, basically he is unemployed on medical grounds, is an insomniac, has strange eating habits, trouble walking so doesn't go out much and is generally addicted to GW titles at the moment. I could say more, but don't really want to on a public page. I've written this so you can, in his words, "see what a pathetic person I am and why I play GW so much". :)
I hope you can help him Gaile and we both appreciate you looking into it. Thanks very much. Taffy 11:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
i'm also interested in this topic as i often play for sometimes 20+ hours at a clip only leaving the computer long enough to answer the call of natureFate1985 15:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
So am I. There have been plenty of times when I ran chests for 20+ hours or went on marathons lasting 2 days. Pkohler01 00:51, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I hope that I did not give a misimpression. I did not mean to suggest "Someone played too many hours a day and we banned him." What I was saying in this particular situation was, "The player in question met enough of the parameters for botting to be flagged as a possible bot. One of those parameters is the time spent in the game. Combined with a large number of positives in the 20+ bot parameters, he was blocked."
Consider the comment that he was playing AFK and flagging heroes every few minutes. What I was pointing out -- in a generic sense -- is that when I see that sort of activity, but I see it happening for massive number of hours every day, I have to wonder: "Is it playing? Or is it botting?"
Finally, some of the personal information he gave you and the information that he provided in the ticket are in direct conflict. I can only say that the person who was blocked has contacted the team again, but because he provided no new information, the ticket was not given a third review. And because of the discrepancies in the details, I don't want to try to assist through indirect contact, much as I appreciate your kind intentions on his behalf. Thanks -- Gaile 19:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
OK, thanks for taking the time to look into it Gaile. I've been looking through his support request (I asked for all info before contacting you). I see there he says he is afk while he "is at Work". I assume that is probably the discrepancy you mention. No idea what he means by this I will have to ask him. Fair enough if you do not want to be involved any more, but can you answer one more question, if we put in another support request on that account with more info will it be read? Or just closed without even looking at it?
Again thanks for all your help and time. Taffy 17:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Opening new tickets only delays the process, as they have to take the time to merge them anyway. You can submit the additional info with the existing ticket number for additional consideration. But if it is true that he is "afk while at work" with this thing running, it's nothing short of botting, and there is no reconsideration for those... Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Finally found out, afk while working basically means working on the computer NEXT to the one playing GW. So that explains that. Anyway I have told him to update the support request and we will hope that this can sort it all out. Although he has since found loads of other things to do with his time... I don't think he is coming back anyway now, it's quite upsetting :( Taffy 13:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
It's a good thing when people get a life. :P I realize that I'm totally addicted to GW, but I can't do anything about it (and don't really want to, at the moment, read my wikia userpage if you want to know why). Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 21:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) These was no response from the player to the April 23 request for more information. Due to that, I am going to archive this post. -- Gaile 21:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

New Rainbow Phoenix BUG?

I know people have reported heros can charm the rainbow phoenix and we are told that it is a bug. Is this as I blieve a bug also today I was able to charm the rainbow phoenix with a char that as no tittles.--Kaiaba 11:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC) Ment to also say if this is a bug I will return it to the ZM True Arrow San =--Kaiaba 11:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

That is not a bug, it is an intended feature. Once you unlock the phoenix, you can charm it with any character on that account, just not heroes. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
They made HoM account-wide so it's kind of a natural course for the bird to be so as well.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 21:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, it still only appears in the HoM of my title character, not the others, would be nice if I got to see it on the other chars in the account-view. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 22:34, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Feeling Ignored

Account Issue

Gaile, I have a created NC Master Account and two separate Game Accounts - one is my major account with over 20 character slots and all campaigns + unlock packages; the other account is a very much less used account but nevertheless uses 3 of the Campaigns purchased separately. I have previously registered the second, lesser game account on the NCsoft Master Account but was never able to add the primary/main game account. This did not seem to have any great importance but the new Free Xunlai Pane upgrade has put this need back to being something desirable.

Like many people, when I came to link and add my primary game account I was getting the message that my primary game account was already registered with another NCsoft Master Account. I raised a Support Help Request (Incident: 090424-001058) on 24 April to flag up my issue and see if my primary game account could now be merged into my NCsoft Master Account or at least have the account made available to me to get my free Xunlai Pane for that primary game account. I have responded to Supports response with all details required by them (name, keys, postal address, uniqueIDs etc. and as many of the Access keys and in-game store activation codes as possible (certainly enough to show that I have spent a fortune on GuildWars!)). The last I heard from Support was that the issue was being escalated to Senior Support. This was on 27 April. I have not received any follow-up or had any update to say that the matter is being investigated and feel somewhat cut adrift and ignored by NCsoft Support. Is there any chance you could look into the Ticket and see if any progress IS being made or whether I need to create a new ticket or whatever. Your help would be very much appreciated. Bearz talk 14:18, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I have this issue too, in fact too many people have this issue. We still have 4 weeks to get this resolved before we're just SoL for that free storage tab, but I'm annoyed its taking so long for support to process 1 issue that everyone is having. Basically your not the only who is a little upset.~>Sins WDBImage: User The_Sins_We_Die_By_Sig.png 15:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I would say that the reason why it is taking so long for them to solve a "single" issue is that the reasons why these are screwing up might be different for some people. My linkage error was because my GW pass was too long *explained more up above*, a friend I know has playNC account name length issues, and I am sure there are several other little things that are screwing up left and right. Some fixable, some less fixable. And they are processing a lot of them, they have probably seen more access keys and emails and names than you can imagine in one week. And from what I can tell, it is a small team relative to the playerbase. I am SURE if there are too many issues being resolved by a week before the deadline, they will consider extending it. Its what I would suggest at least, to help players stop panicking. Katherinezoltin 08:04, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for the feedback Sins and Katherine, however, it is not so much that I am upset, unhappy or have issue with the complexity of the various issues with which NCsoft Support are having to grapple. I can understand that there are a lot of people with issues with their abilty to register their in-game accounts with NCsoft (why that should be so is a matter that NCsoft needs to ask itself as it has been found wanting on that score!).
Being ignored is, for me, a far more serious issue than whether I register my main game account or not because, frankly, I have always been able to play the game reagrdless of whether I was registered with NCsoft or PlayNC and the free Xunlai Pane is of little value to me or my 9 Mule Characters .... My issue is that I am feeling ignored by NCsoft Support and that is why I am asking the Support Liaison for some help. Bearz talk 16:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I am sorry that you have experienced a delay in getting assistance, Bearz. I can confirm what others have said: there are several levels of issues. One of those layers involves tickets that are simply solved and get people quickly on their way. But a situation like yours is more complex, and it takes the assistance of a senior staffer, and they are understandably fewer in number. The teams have been working overtime -- nights and weekends -- to help with this matter and I'm sure they'll continue to do so to get through the thousands of tickets that have come in.
I want to gently point something out about those thousands of tickets: In the vast majority of cases, this is not an NCsoft Store issue -- this is an individual account holder issue. Folks have forgotten their credentials (user name, password) or they've forgotten that they had an NCsoft account, or they have created more than one master account over the years. All these folks need and will get help, of course! But I've seen some anger (elsewhere) about this, and it's only fair to point out that NCsoft didn't make the account, choose the user name, select the password, or bind the accounts improperly -- the player did that -- but NCsoft will help get it sorted out. (When people get angry about the situation, it's like cursing the locksmith when you lock your keys in your car. :) )
Yet I understand people are impatient for a resolution, wishing things were handled more quickly. I do sympathize with how frustrating this is, and how the delay seems long. I am confident the team can and will help you. I'm also confident that everyone who tries to take advantage of the special promotion during the eligibility period will get assistance and be able to take advantage of that offer. The promotion runs for several more weeks, and the ticket queue is dropping. Please forgive the delay, and remain confident you'll get the help you need to be able to accept the free offer. -- Gaile 19:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Thank you Gaile. I am happy that you are aware of my concern and appreciate your response and thoughts about the eventual resolution. Bearz talk 19:55, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
And I in turn want to say how much I appreciate your patience. Please do let me know when this gets resolved, will you? I think you'll hear soon -- unless this is a really extraordinarily complex issue that takes extra time to fix. If you haven't heard by Tuesday, feel free to ping me again. -- Gaile 23:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Using my ASDIC, I am pinging Gaile! It is now Wednesday and I have not heard back from Support since the issue was escalated to a Senior Support Staff by Adam. The Submitted Request is being dealt with under Incident: 090424-001058. Some news would be better than no news .... even if bad news! Bearz talk 06:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC
Coincidentally, NCsoft Support came back to me a few minutes ago so this is semi-sorted. If they came back to me as a result of something you did Gaile then thank you. :o) Bearz talk 19:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Please keep me up to date on this, Bearz. I'm crossing fingers. :) -- Gaile 21:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
All sorted now Gaile. Thank you for your time. Bearz talk 14:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Suspension/Banned

Suspended for an Offensive Name

hello... similiar to someone else who already posted i'm not satisfied with supports support on this matter so i'm attempting to contact you about it... i was suspended for the following character name Cut Myself Again who is 5 months old now personally i was refering to shaving but whatever...i've certainly seen MUCH worse names floating around guild wars... and support contacted me in response to one of my replies to them and informed me i have another character they want the name changed on Sue A Sidel who is almost 2yrs old!!! now i know what morons and idiots are gonna say about this name BUT i named the character after a friend of mine who sadly is no longer with us ok now i know people are gonna grump and complain about the possible self harm motif WELL then i guess guild wars had better start redoing some skills???????? like all the life sacrificing skills=SELF HARM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyone look at the icon for Blood Is Power lately??? sure looks like someone slitting their wrist to me...................... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fate1985 (talk • contribs) at 14:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC).

^ups
anyone look at the icon for Blood Is Power lately???
sure looks like someone slitting their wrist to me QFTPika Fan 14:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm yer, entire Necromancer skills sets revolve around self harm or other such grim subjects... unless theres more information on ingame activities ya may have done I'm with ya on the name thing, it is rather... odd MrPaladin 14:04, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Masochism, poisoning yourself, making yourself bleed, sacrificing your health, drinking other people's blood, eating corpses, carrying around your boyfriend's skull, "extracting" inscriptions from Ettin flesh, etc, etc. I'd agree the support team was a little too eager to suspend this account considering the in-game content. Mr J 14:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

i'll not be logging onto either character(therefore not renaming them)till i've heard from you gaileFate1985 15:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

"Cut Myself Shaving" or "Razor Cut Again" can be an option if it's not taken, as the first one may be misunderstood, but I agree, the second one is way too obscure, I didn't even get it right away, they're stretching it too far. Image:User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 19:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
The EULA needs to be changed to say "You cannot make character names or guild names at all." ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 08:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
It really doesn't matter how long you have had those characters, if someone is somehow offended by the names and reports and Anet deems the names offensive, then you will have to change the names. I personally don't see the names as offensive but obviously someone out there does. Your best bet is to change the names and carry on.--BabyJ 13:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Ridiculous. Gaile you guys are REALLY a bunch of hypocrites, there is no way you can deny this now... Mini Me talk 15:04, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
So you had a friend commit suicide, but can't understand how a name that makes reference to that act might, just might, offend someone? You don't see how such a name might upset a parent whose child died; a brother whose sister killed herself; a husband left to raise two young children alone because his wife made that final, fatal choice? People can play the game and use certain skills without feeling as if a real-life tragedy is being shoved in their faces. But a name, now, that's there in front of you, unfiltered and unfilterable. A name presents things on an entirely different level and makes a more overt kind of reference. And because of that, we do not feel such a name is acceptable.
And I don't know how many times I need to say this: The fact that you've played a character with an offensive name for some time does not give that character a seal of approval. The team blocks names every day, on report or by observation. When they block, they check the account for other offensive names and block those as well. (The standard observation is that most people with one bad name have others. As a kindness, the team blocks them all at the same time, so that the player serves one brief suspension instead of multiple suspensions.) Some of the characters they block are new, some are old. Longevity is absolutely no guarantee that a name is acceptable.
I am not offering to engage in a discussion about this topic; I will not join a debate. I don't need arguments such as "What about that image or those skills?" I understand that and have addressed it above. The decision about blocking names that overtly refer to self-harm or suicide was discussed with the Support Team and the Community Team, and in the end, it was felt quite strongly that such names should be blocked. Ultimately, the decision about this matter rests with the company on whose servers you play. And the company feels that the correct decision was made in this case. -- Gaile 18:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
His name had nothing to do with suicide, and was probably a reference to emos (despite his excuse), as cutting one's self usually is. If his name was "suicide lol" i would agree with you that it's offensive. He could have named his character I Drive Fast and someone at NC support would connect it to car crashes and it would be considered offensive. Who makes the retarded policies you follow? ~Shard Image:User Shard Sig Icon.png 19:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
He said: "i have another character they want the name changed on Sue A Sidel..." I said that we block "...names that overtly refer to self-harm or suicide." -- Gaile 19:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm offended when people make names by mashing their hands into the keyboard, name change please-oh wait, the randomly generated name is random. In fact, the way that Anet forces all of these stupid restrictions on people without even bothering to fix the game is about as polite as shoving a fist into the faces of Build Wars players collectively. Fix the game instead of blocking names that I don't give a crap about and 99% of players don't either.72.71.231.149 03:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
If you are referring to the Support Team, they're not mashing keys at all. In order to create a random name, they are using a Anagram program that takes the letters from the original name and creates a new one. This seems both fair and impartial.