Feedback talk:Regina Buenaobra
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[edit] Build contest stats
Hi Regina, not sure if you're the best person to ask, but are more statistics about the build contest going to be released? I was very impressed to see the 30k submission number, but, of course, more detail would always be appreciated. Things like, how many were unique, how many per profession, within profession how many by attribute (i.e. how many sword vs. axe vs. hammer for warriors), etc. Maybe some oddball stats, like which skill was used most often, or how many players submitted builds for all professions, too. Will any additional info like this be released, either with the contest results or otherwise? Thanks! -- FreedomBound
18:46, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Regina, thanks for the update in your journal. I know you said that the mining might take too long for some of the questions that I asked, but, any chance you could just provide a dump of the submissions? Even the raw template code would be enough for the community to delve into it and answer some of the questions I asked. Thanks! -- FreedomBound
15:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] the undeciphered Asuran banner
From the Feedback talk:Matthew Medina (section), but since noone answers I will post it her and someone can remove it there. I dont know how to or can I just delete it on her talkpage.
Does the azura banner mean this?
. gata el ya gya.. balas ya
. the cat and gya.. bullets and
Got it almost^^(spanish translation), I guess it means the charr with guns in gw2. Couldnt translate the first words from each line. Death Sligher
18:37, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- It would be more like "Cat the now gya.. bullets now". But I doubt it being Spanish at all. It doesn't make any sense. Mith
Talk 22:00, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- Because spanish grammar is the same as english grammar. BlazeRick 07:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- What is this asura banner you speak about?--Fighterdoken 21:41, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- Asuran Beacon --24.197.253.243 21:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- What is this asura banner you speak about?--Fighterdoken 21:41, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- Because spanish grammar is the same as english grammar. BlazeRick 07:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- "Years ago cats prepared bullets and.." was the most i could get out of it. The words seem to be mixed up. 'gata' meaning female cat, and 'gya' is not Spanish it means the past or time from the past (see the wiki page) Rslink 03:36, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- Something, just something, tells me they didn't plan guns during the creation of EN... But who knows. -- Konig/talk 04:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- Would be nice if regina could say us what it now really means:/. 62.133.217.148 09:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- Gun where an inevitable addition since the first powder keg exploded. MithTalk 11:50, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- Anyone already found out what it means:S?Death Sligher
23:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- Anyone already found out what it means:S?Death Sligher
- Gun where an inevitable addition since the first powder keg exploded. Mith
- Would be nice if regina could say us what it now really means:/. 62.133.217.148 09:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
- Something, just something, tells me they didn't plan guns during the creation of EN... But who knows. -- Konig/talk 04:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] weekend events
can we please get a calender of what the weekend events are going to be i know you guys talked about this awhile back but i don't think anything came of it.- 
Zesbeer 23:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
- It could be more than useful. In case you plan these events much ahead of time. - J.P.
Talk 23:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Codex Arena is Awesome!
I must say I love the new format. It really forces the players to think to make up original bars that may not be a part of the current meta.
Some players have presented issues *6 fire skills but no fire attunement*, *Air attunement but only invoke and gale*, *lack of healing prayers*
I see this as being common with a randomized system. I also see it as perfectly acceptable. If a player can't work with the 20 skills he/she has been given, he/she needs to either change their secondary, change their primary, or try again the next day as the skills will constantly change.
In response to the above issues, I would like to ask you this, Regina. * I would ask Linsey, but she locked her page because it was overflowing :D
What system did the Live Team use to determine the random choice of the 20 skills? Are there any mechanics in place to prevent same or similar skills to be chosen on consecutive days? And are the skills divided into tiers as a form of usefulness as they have been in Sealed-Deck sanctioned tournaments at past PAX events?
Thank you for your consideration, again, love the new format :) --Malchior Devenholm 03:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'm a bit worried, it's almost too random with too many Elites to pick from but not enough support powers. Some primaries apparently just get locked out of attacks entirely (like Paragons were today) while other classes can just look through the long(ish) list of Elites, load up PvX, and then Broadcast their that exact build (or whatever is improvised for it) by it's known Meta nickname. I fail to see how that reinforces "honorable" play. --ilr
05:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- I don't like very much the fact of people making teams to enter. I though it would be a bit more like the costume brawling, just with a more skills, but still letting anyone in. If you have to form a team, those that PUG may find themselves with a 'trend of the day', in which only the 4 professions with the best 4 elites are used. If parties was formed randomly, then success won't depend just on how good are the players on finding that 'build of the day' - usually in pages like PvXWiki - leaving the other 6 professions and players that favor them out. Instead of that, random formation will allow anyone to join, and the Honor system will keep them inside even if it's not the 'build of the day' party. And then it would depend just on the skill of each player separately, not on the knowledge of the party leader or the pages he checks. At least I hope the system checks which skills are most used each day, and prevents them from appearing again for a while. Something like a 'weight' system. The more a skill is picked in the Codex, the 'heavier' it gets, and the harder it is for it to appear again. And the heaviest skills are completely left out of the daily list. MithTalk 11:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- kind of agreed with mith but i also feel that the arena is really defense based and thus making matches last for ever. every time i have played we need two healers to get anywhere because of the lack of good healing skills. i also think it would be awesome to have a random codex were you cant make a team you just have a bar and hit enter like you said but i also like the team aspect of it because not all the time do i have a full party of 6-8 to play gvg or ha and ab is super stale right now. so i would be in favor of either more skills per day and have it change every other day or buff the skills just for the codex. lastly i would love a weighting system to bring the most popular skills out of the loop for a bit or just make them a rarer drop- Zesbeer 11:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- We already have Random Arena if you want to pair up with bad people running mediocre bars. Putting out more skills and changing it less often would cause stale metas to sit around for even longer. Also, the point is that the skills are random - weighting out popular (read: useful) skills is just stupid, mostly because it encourages bad gimmicks. ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- kind of agreed with mith but i also feel that the arena is really defense based and thus making matches last for ever. every time i have played we need two healers to get anywhere because of the lack of good healing skills. i also think it would be awesome to have a random codex were you cant make a team you just have a bar and hit enter like you said but i also like the team aspect of it because not all the time do i have a full party of 6-8 to play gvg or ha and ab is super stale right now. so i would be in favor of either more skills per day and have it change every other day or buff the skills just for the codex. lastly i would love a weighting system to bring the most popular skills out of the loop for a bit or just make them a rarer drop-
- I don't like very much the fact of people making teams to enter. I though it would be a bit more like the costume brawling, just with a more skills, but still letting anyone in. If you have to form a team, those that PUG may find themselves with a 'trend of the day', in which only the 4 professions with the best 4 elites are used. If parties was formed randomly, then success won't depend just on how good are the players on finding that 'build of the day' - usually in pages like PvXWiki - leaving the other 6 professions and players that favor them out. Instead of that, random formation will allow anyone to join, and the Honor system will keep them inside even if it's not the 'build of the day' party. And then it would depend just on the skill of each player separately, not on the knowledge of the party leader or the pages he checks. At least I hope the system checks which skills are most used each day, and prevents them from appearing again for a while. Something like a 'weight' system. The more a skill is picked in the Codex, the 'heavier' it gets, and the harder it is for it to appear again. And the heaviest skills are completely left out of the daily list. Mith
I just want to say that I love how it was coded so that PvE characters could equip and use the codex skills even if they didn't have them bought. Only having to slightly alter PvE equipment is a small trade-off for looking pretty. Mr J 11:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- "It really forces the players to think to make up original bars that may not be a part of the current meta."
- I just want to point out that after ~2 hours, everyone was running prage sword, glimmer, Weapon of Remedy, and an ele or second frontline. That's a meta if I've ever seen one.
is for Raine, etc. 17:53, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, lazy people will always exist. Bad players will always exist. People will always need an easy route, another person to do the thinking for them, so of course, people will eventually copy paste builds. That can't be prevented.--*Yasmin Parvaneh*
18:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- We ran prage axe at that time, then we ran stunning strike(adrin), poison arrow/barbed something(underwood), glimmer/return(pug monk) and weapon of fury(pospospos). Pika Fan 18:21, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- We were running D, Me, E, Mo and wiping that PRage build constantly, for 50 consec, tbh. There are always going to be good combinations and bad combinations from Sealed Deck - you can't expect people to not figure out what works. ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:32, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, lazy people will always exist. Bad players will always exist. People will always need an easy route, another person to do the thinking for them, so of course, people will eventually copy paste builds. That can't be prevented.--*Yasmin Parvaneh*
- In any case, that "Popularity Flagging" weight system pointed out above should really be put into play in the random skill generation code to keep the meta-whoring suppressed. ...IoW: Anyone who can organize stuff neatly and legibly, plz go post your own variants of that suggestion to the Feedback Space. --ilr 21:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- Why would you want to suppress meta skills? So bad skills without any utility begin to see play? Removing some of the randomness from SD removes some of the quality of it as well. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- OMG Ur Bad at logic...Easily re-organizing around OP Metas is the Antithesis of retaining Randomness. --ilr 21:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- You're obviously considering "randomness" to mean "force people to use skills that they wouldn't normally use, not because other skills are necessarily overpowered, but because the skills they're not using are ridiculously situational or just plain bad." ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- Yes actually... that would be the Definition of "Random". --ilr 21:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- ^ exactly ilr.- Zesbeer 21:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- No, actually. That is NOT the definition of random. Even by your own link "proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern". What random means is, once again by your link, "characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.". If you take skills out of the possibilities, then you are reducing the randomness of the system. Mr J 22:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- But if everyone always chooses the most popular skills everytime they come up, then how does that make it an Equal Probability of every skill being chosen?? --ilr 23:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- Hey, at least you have 2 hours of "degenerate meta" free play time. After that, be ready to deal with cookie cutter builds/shitter gimmicks. Gogo new format that's not degenerative. Karate
Jesus 23:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- That's why I mentioned the weight system. At the end, the more likely to appear would be the crappy skills no one wants, and instead everyone using the Machine Gun and the BFG9000, we'll get into an arena in which everyone has to use the Fist weapon and the Pistol. MithTalk 12:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- That's why I mentioned the weight system. At the end, the more likely to appear would be the crappy skills no one wants, and instead everyone using the Machine Gun and the BFG9000, we'll get into an arena in which everyone has to use the Fist weapon and the Pistol. Mith
- Ilr, that is the most brain-piercing thing I have ever read and is wrong on SO many levels. Firstly, it's the pool of skills which should be random, not the skills players choose to use. Patient Spirit will show up just as often (given enough time) as Supportive Spirit and thus it is random. Mr J 13:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- Hey, at least you have 2 hours of "degenerate meta" free play time. After that, be ready to deal with cookie cutter builds/shitter gimmicks. Gogo new format that's not degenerative. Karate
- But if everyone always chooses the most popular skills everytime they come up, then how does that make it an Equal Probability of every skill being chosen?? --ilr
- No, actually. That is NOT the definition of random. Even by your own link "proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern". What random means is, once again by your link, "characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.". If you take skills out of the possibilities, then you are reducing the randomness of the system. Mr J 22:11, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- ^ exactly ilr.-
- Yes actually... that would be the Definition of "Random". --ilr
- You're obviously considering "randomness" to mean "force people to use skills that they wouldn't normally use, not because other skills are necessarily overpowered, but because the skills they're not using are ridiculously situational or just plain bad." ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- OMG Ur Bad at logic...Easily re-organizing around OP Metas is the Antithesis of retaining Randomness. --ilr
- Why would you want to suppress meta skills? So bad skills without any utility begin to see play? Removing some of the randomness from SD removes some of the quality of it as well. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
- In any case, that "Popularity Flagging" weight system pointed out above should really be put into play in the random skill generation code to keep the meta-whoring suppressed. ...IoW: Anyone who can organize stuff neatly and legibly, plz go post your own variants of that suggestion to the Feedback Space. --ilr
- moo. I believe you two are discussing random at two different stages. the way Dr J. is describing it is how Regina said Robert said it is implemented: GW randomly selects 20 nonelite, 5 elite skills from the entire pool of skills from each profession every day, and makes them available for players to pick and choose from (non-randomly). I believe ilr is wanting GW to randomly assign your bar when you click 'enter', which would (mostly) turn Codex into rock-paper-scissors (without a careful implementation, i.e. ensuring you don't get four resses and one attack skill), and isn't even in the spirit of Sealed Deck (which I think I can safely assume you'd never done before Codex, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining). In short, you're complaining because people are being rational decision makers, and will always choose skill combinations which maximize their chances of success; i.e., meta is always meta. There's nothing you can do about it. — derp de derp derp a tum tee tiddly tum ta tum Maf 23:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- No that's not at all what I said so next time just speak for yourself, thx. ...And yes, there was plenty to be done about it since SD wouldn't have been recommended in HB/TA's place if it was as exploitable as this format is. --ilr 13:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- No that's not at all what I said so next time just speak for yourself, thx. ...And yes, there was plenty to be done about it since SD wouldn't have been recommended in HB/TA's place if it was as exploitable as this format is. --ilr
- moo. I believe you two are discussing random at two different stages. the way Dr J. is describing it is how Regina said Robert said it is implemented: GW randomly selects 20 nonelite, 5 elite skills from the entire pool of skills from each profession every day, and makes them available for players to pick and choose from (non-randomly). I believe ilr is wanting GW to randomly assign your bar when you click 'enter', which would (mostly) turn Codex into rock-paper-scissors (without a careful implementation, i.e. ensuring you don't get four resses and one attack skill), and isn't even in the spirit of Sealed Deck (which I think I can safely assume you'd never done before Codex, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining). In short, you're complaining because people are being rational decision makers, and will always choose skill combinations which maximize their chances of success; i.e., meta is always meta. There's nothing you can do about it. — derp de derp derp a tum tee tiddly tum ta tum Maf 23:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- @Malchior Devenholm: I asked Robert about it this afternoon, and he told me that the skill selection for each day is random. Whether skills have been in Sealed Deck tournaments at PAX don't affect whether they will appear in the skills for the day. --Regina Buenaobra
02:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- @Malchior Devenholm: I asked Robert about it this afternoon, and he told me that the skill selection for each day is random. Whether skills have been in Sealed Deck tournaments at PAX don't affect whether they will appear in the skills for the day. --Regina Buenaobra
- Thank you Regina. Is the Live Team pleased with the format and how the players are reacting to it? Will we hopefully see this transform into an AT done in the traditional 4v4 sealed deck format at the PAX events?--Malchior Devenholm 04:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- Couldnt charm animal also res pets since you dont get every day a res skill with it. Death Sligher 15:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- Are they happy with the players' reaction to it? Hmm....considering there have been at least 4 threads on Guru talking about hating it, several pages here talking about people hating it, other threads and pages here and in other places questioning its fundamentals, only three districts last night during a common peak time (lol), etc. I'd say they're probably not happy with its reception. It's not a bad format, but definitely not what I think players were expecting (a PvP game type that PvE'ers and PvP'ers could enjoy).
- Good thing guilds aren't making cookie cutter builds and grinding it for title points alrea- .....oh wait.... Karate Jesus 13:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- Couldnt charm animal also res pets since you dont get every day a res skill with it. Death Sligher
- Thank you Regina. Is the Live Team pleased with the format and how the players are reacting to it? Will we hopefully see this transform into an AT done in the traditional 4v4 sealed deck format at the PAX events?--Malchior Devenholm 04:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
- The real solution was balancing the game they took the shortcut or atleast what seemed to be a shortcut ? Lilondra
14:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'd have to say I do like the new format, although I think it may have been a bit of a mistake to release the day before Costume Brawl opened. I think the lack of players in Codex Arena right now is largely due to people doing Costume Brawl.--142.68.87.49 17:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Forgot to sign in--Orry 17:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- They had to get rid of HB immediately. Not sure why that ditched Team Arena, though. Same exploit?--
anguard 18:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- They had to get rid of HB immediately. Not sure why that ditched Team Arena, though. Same exploit?--
- It's not particularly helpful to measure reception by comparing the number of complaint threads to support threads: anyone in customer service can tell you that complaints always outnumber compliments by anywhere from 5:1 to 20:1 (depending on various factors). Also: we don't know whether ANet intended the new format to cater to new PvPers, veteran PvPers, or some combination.
- Comparing the number of districts spawned should be a good proxy for popularity. Early in the introduction to the Zaishen challenges (before we knew the schedule), PvE mission outposts generally saw 3–6 districts on the day of a new quest. If we take into account that the availability of PvPer compared to PvEers, then seeing 3 Codex districts spawn during peak hours suggests a reasonable amount of enthusiasm. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- I definitely agree with your quantity based on the realistic proportion the PvP community makes up, but on Day1 it had 9 full districts, Day2 a steep drop to 6... and I don't need to log in right now to know it's under 4... Such dramatic decline means it's not bringing any PvE'ers or new PvP'ers into that community.
Which means that the Live team just wasted THE LAST 7 MONTHS OF WORK FOR NO REASON. And you can't just say "Oh they were SF n00b PvE'ers who weren't gonna PvP anyway, fuck 'em!". You just can't say that because we've seen first hand already what happens when a new venue is executed CORRECTLY and continuously succeeds in getting people out of degenerate routines. --ilr 21:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- I think it's part of GW2 "beta". Like the many other things added before. Stable, Daily Quests, Dungeons, GvG Tiebreakers, Books for rep with factions, etc. BlazeRick 22:07, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- I know for myself, and after discussing with allies/friends, that I/we tried Codex, saw the mechanics of the title, the mechanics of the format and how the player-base is interacting within it and won't be doing it again. It's "just become another PvP zone" from our prespective; it's quickly become a 'copy and pasta' environment, negativity, title requirements and the likes, which is why most of us stopped most kinds of PvP (and high-end PvE for that matter). Good effort though, I know there are others who find it's the greatest thing since sliced bread ^_^ ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- The quantity thing makes this pretty obvious that it's not been well received. It's not surprising that the CB and ToT farming stole away from the Codex, but if it had been that good, people would still play it over the other stuff. RA, commonly, now has more districts than the Codex. If that doesn't say something about the Codex's reception, from both the PvP AND PvE communities, then I don't know what will. Karate Jesus 01:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- The quantity thing makes this pretty obvious that it's not been well received. It's not surprising that the CB and ToT farming stole away from the Codex, but if it had been that good, people would still play it over the other stuff. RA, commonly, now has more districts than the Codex. If that doesn't say something about the Codex's reception, from both the PvP AND PvE communities, then I don't know what will. Karate
- I know for myself, and after discussing with allies/friends, that I/we tried Codex, saw the mechanics of the title, the mechanics of the format and how the player-base is interacting within it and won't be doing it again. It's "just become another PvP zone" from our prespective; it's quickly become a 'copy and pasta' environment, negativity, title requirements and the likes, which is why most of us stopped most kinds of PvP (and high-end PvE for that matter). Good effort though, I know there are others who find it's the greatest thing since sliced bread ^_^ ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- I think it's part of GW2 "beta". Like the many other things added before. Stable, Daily Quests, Dungeons, GvG Tiebreakers, Books for rep with factions, etc. BlazeRick 22:07, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
- I definitely agree with your quantity based on the realistic proportion the PvP community makes up, but on Day1 it had 9 full districts, Day2 a steep drop to 6... and I don't need to log in right now to know it's under 4... Such dramatic decline means it's not bringing any PvE'ers or new PvP'ers into that community.
- Comparing the number of districts spawned should be a good proxy for popularity. Early in the introduction to the Zaishen challenges (before we knew the schedule), PvE mission outposts generally saw 3–6 districts on the day of a new quest. If we take into account that the availability of PvPer compared to PvEers, then seeing 3 Codex districts spawn during peak hours suggests a reasonable amount of enthusiasm. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I wish they would make codex an 8v8 guild affair. 4v4 arenas that allow players to decide the full party configuration have never been popular. Anet needs to work their new features around things that work, such as RA, CMs, AB, CB, GvG and to an extent HA. ~Pika 152.226.7.202 01:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- Lazy Pika no sign in? And you're right, 4v4 with the ability to pre-config a team has always been unpopular, mainly because it is inherently degenerative. 6v6 or 8v8 would have been smarter (I would have liked to see 6v6) or it should have had more of a random aspect to it. Meh. Oh well, we all know Anet isn't into admitting fault, so get used to it. Karate Jesus 02:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- lol6v6 PvP. Forgot about the 6v6 HA fiasco? Pika Fan 06:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- Thereason they chose 4 peeps is because its easier to set up but like I thought we immediatly get to see how CA is broken :) GOGOGO USE THAT HONORABLE EDA BU...owait Lilondra 06:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- I haven't forgotten about the 6v6 HA shitfest, but I'm suggesting that if the format had been different AND the teams had been bigger (maybe even 5 like CB) then it could have been less of a degenerative, cookie-cutter, title whorefest. Karate Jesus 16:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- GW has been a titlefest for a few years now. A new format isn;t going to change that. If you can't do with guildies what others can do, then just don't. Feels like reading "BWAH I can;t HA cus I has no Bambi". BlazeRick 16:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'd argue that it's closer to people complaining about not being able to get champ titles, but the GvG ladder is a joke now so meh. ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- i think its the lack of skills if they add 2x the amount of skills and had it change every other day i think it would be better. also pvp skills in that areana are fail, along with skills that require spirits or minions and having none is quite fail imho.- Zesbeer 23:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- The problem is that in a normal arena you have all the resources you need.Basicly you can take any direction.Be it hexway,gimmickway,othergimmickway,otherothergimmickway,anothergimmickway or relativly balanced.So every team has condition removal,DW,hex removal,... almost every team has knockdown,enchant removal,... . Basicly these are things you *need* to have a decent game going.I don't mind taking lacerating chop but if you have no dismember there is no point.I think that by design assassins and dervs are more likely to be chosen because of the lack of DW warriors often have.So if a "honorable" arena instantly points towards gimmicks thats a really bad start.You need to give every profession X amount of codex skills they get w/e happens and X amount of skills that they can't have.Now many will contest the second but think about it some skills are just to much of terrible terribleness to ever be used,EVER (I'm referring to skills like mending).Lilondra 06:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- The problem is that in a normal arena you have all the resources you need.Basicly you can take any direction.Be it hexway,gimmickway,othergimmickway,otherothergimmickway,anothergimmickway or relativly balanced.So every team has condition removal,DW,hex removal,... almost every team has knockdown,enchant removal,... . Basicly these are things you *need* to have a decent game going.I don't mind taking lacerating chop but if you have no dismember there is no point.I think that by design assassins and dervs are more likely to be chosen because of the lack of DW warriors often have.So if a "honorable" arena instantly points towards gimmicks thats a really bad start.You need to give every profession X amount of codex skills they get w/e happens and X amount of skills that they can't have.Now many will contest the second but think about it some skills are just to much of terrible terribleness to ever be used,EVER (I'm referring to skills like mending).Lilondra
- i think its the lack of skills if they add 2x the amount of skills and had it change every other day i think it would be better. also pvp skills in that areana are fail, along with skills that require spirits or minions and having none is quite fail imho.-
- I'd argue that it's closer to people complaining about not being able to get champ titles, but the GvG ladder is a joke now so meh. ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- GW has been a titlefest for a few years now. A new format isn;t going to change that. If you can't do with guildies what others can do, then just don't. Feels like reading "BWAH I can;t HA cus I has no Bambi". BlazeRick 16:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- Thereason they chose 4 peeps is because its easier to set up but like I thought we immediatly get to see how CA is broken :) GOGOGO USE THAT HONORABLE EDA BU...owait Lilondra
- lol6v6 PvP. Forgot about the 6v6 HA fiasco? Pika Fan 06:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
- Either that, or run Codex the way we all thought it would run. An entire team given a deck of skills from which 4 bars must be made. But that would slow down match frequency. I just hope the sanctioned system is used if we happen to get Codex ATs. That will require alot more skill to make bars on a random set of ALL SKILLS than 20 in one profession. And there will be no build of the day, as each team gets a different randomization in the deck.--Malchior Devenholm 13:54, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure that would be harder to code and I'm also sure peeps would just rezone till they get a suiting deck.I'm also sure that if they weren't able torezone they would simply get outbuilt by other peeps because they got EDA and you got no viable condition removal Lilondra 07:01, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure that would be harder to code and I'm also sure peeps would just rezone till they get a suiting deck.I'm also sure that if they weren't able torezone they would simply get outbuilt by other peeps because they got EDA and you got no viable condition removal Lilondra
[edit] Small Thanks
I am sure many not on the Live Team contributed to the awesomeness of the new Halloween content, but I particularly wanted to thank the skill icon artist. I really like the skill icons for the new skills. I know putting "action" into such a small space can be hard, but whoever designed the new ones did a great job. Please pass it along. :) --Ravious 15:58, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- Firstly, I'm pretty sure those are old stock icons. I could be wrong, mind you, but I know for a fact that there are a lot of icons that have just never gotten used (though, to be fair, a good chunk of that number are just different color schemes). Secondly, if there is is a message to pass along, could you do me a big favor and ask if they can put them somewhere? >_> It'd help me out a lot, I'm beautifying the wiki skill icons, and lossy compression is baed for you, liek socialism. –Jette
16:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- Socialism lulz. Hf with losing an arm and a leg or, spending either of them to preserve one. BlazeRick 18:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- I wonder what margin one can have to adapt, if he restrict himself to one extreme or the other. Yseron - 90.48.131.185 18:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- That was either a terrible logicfail or you're quoting someone who didn't fully think that one out. ··· Danny Pew Pew 20:33, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- Can you remind me which country rushed into an economic crisis because of abusive money speculations ? Yseron - 90.28.82.214 19:43, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, Jette, I especially like the Agent of the Mad King icon (which I seriously doubt was an old stock icon. I wouldn't mind a high quality version of it. Be a fun forum avatar. --Ravious 18:15, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, you might be surprised. A lot of Halloween icons existed before this. Also, I dunno what socialism really is, but I hear it's pretty bad. Almost as bad as AIDS. –Jette 19:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- Well, people yell out lolsocialismbaed because they can't get it through their thick heads that (partially(!)) government regulated/owned health care really is for the best. And it saves money on the long run, too. Change! But yeah, who cares. Silly topic. BlazeRick 22:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, you might be surprised. A lot of Halloween icons existed before this. Also, I dunno what socialism really is, but I hear it's pretty bad. Almost as bad as AIDS. –Jette
- That was either a terrible logicfail or you're quoting someone who didn't fully think that one out. ··· Danny Pew Pew 20:33, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- I wonder what margin one can have to adapt, if he restrict himself to one extreme or the other. Yseron - 90.48.131.185 18:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
- Socialism lulz. Hf with losing an arm and a leg or, spending either of them to preserve one. BlazeRick 18:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Bahltek
any possibility that we could learn more about him? ~ Dregoloth 20:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)dregoloth
[edit] winner Artwork Contest
I dont know if the artwork from Jason Z. - USA could have won. Since it needs to be a orginial work from the contestant himself. And I have never seen someone tattoe himself on his back. Most time someone goes with the image he want on his back to a tattoeshop and the tattoer makes a tattoe from it. So then it isnt the orginial work from the contestant. Death Sligher 22:53, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
- /signed many times. That image/picture has nothing to do with being creative or skilled. He probably didn't make the motif to be tattooed and he certainly didn't tattoo it on himself. Also, I think there should have been more honorable mentions. Since Anet gets so many entries, why the tiny amount of people, especially compared to past years. Minami Kaori 23:36, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Kinda unrelated , but winner 10 would be awesome as a wallpaper. -- pling 
23:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
- That's badass!!! - J.P.
Talk 00:04, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- lol pling i thought the exact same fokken thing when i looked at it! wub wub - Wuhy
00:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- lol pling i thought the exact same fokken thing when i looked at it! wub wub - Wuhy
Hey, unrelated to both of those, but remember how one of last year's winners turned out to be a photoshop of a plagiarized painting by one Radojavor on DeviantART? You should take a look at your Honorable Mention Jorge from Spain's entry... and compare it with this one of Radojavor's: http://radojavor.deviantart.com/art/The-Pumpkin-King-68590004. 71.243.223.65 00:06, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- jojj, anet, fix that^ :P - Wuhy 00:09, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Lol more contest dramaz. Lol. Karate 
Jesus 03:11, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- As an addendum, the girl with the giant candy corn thing is kind of cute. I think she should have won ;D Karate Jesus 03:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- FOr the love of Dwayna people. He won. What the UW do you care? Seriously. BlazeRick 04:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- wut? They're upset about the tattoo guy...because he didn't "technically" do it himself. Karate Jesus 05:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- How do we know if the guy who won is the tattoed one or the one who took the picture?--Sharkinu
05:33, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- I was talking about the tattooed guy. And i'm saying; who cares? BlazeRick 05:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- Since the people who brought this up obviously do care, that's a pretty fucking stupid question. King Neoterikos 08:31, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- I was talking about the tattooed guy. And i'm saying; who cares? BlazeRick 05:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- How do we know if the guy who won is the tattoed one or the one who took the picture?--Sharkinu
- wut? They're upset about the tattoo guy...because he didn't "technically" do it himself. Karate
- FOr the love of Dwayna people. He won. What the UW do you care? Seriously. BlazeRick 04:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the guy had to draw up the tattoo so the tattoo artist could put it on him, so technically he did it first, on paper.--98.238.169.189 05:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- Wasn't really a question, Sherlock. Moreso a statement. BlazeRick 08:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- Guy permanently tattooes Mad King Thorn on to his back for a competition. Dedication. Give the man some props (or feel sorry for him?). Do you think the cos player made every aspect of her costume herself? This topic seems pretty BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW to me. Misery 14:40, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- lol who WOULDN'T want a permanent mad king thorn on any of his/her body parts? - Wuhy 14:51, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- lol who WOULDN'T want a permanent mad king thorn on any of his/her body parts? - Wuhy
- Yeah I really thought there'd be more controversy over the cosplayer than this Tattoo since; as far as I can tell her B.F. (IE: probably another SO CASH guy who just happens to be obsessed with fantasy) is being handed 1st place just b/c he hooked up with and dressed up a Supermodel who just happens to look like Jora who always looked like every other super model from northern europe to begin with. So it was basically self fullfilling prophecy from the first day that Anet's Art director decided they needed Aesthetics over Content. But I guess realizing that long enough to complain about it would just depress too many people here who spent the last 4 years playing B/C of similar fanservice... friggin nerds. --ilr 20:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- Way to be whiners. If any of you bothered to read Guru, Tzu, the gal who won is a fairly beloved member of the art forums - and she made the whole costume herself (we have progress pics to prove it), working until the eleventh hour to get it done. If there's anything to be outraged over, it's that ANet seems to be stealing an Honorable Mention from someone who deserves it because they haven't refilled the place of that Spanish plagiarist guy. 71.243.223.65 23:50, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- Way to miss my point. Pretty sure she didn't cast those plastic skulls by her feet herself. What about the brass rings? Did she forge them herself? No? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Does not devalue what she did at all. Likewise, we have no idea about the tattoo. Maybe Jason is the tattoo artist and he offered a free tattoo to someone who would get Mad King Thorn. Maybe the guy designed and drew the plans himself, then the tattoo artist can essentially be seen as a printer, a machine, printing it on to his back. It's pretty ridiculous to criticise either of them on that basis and the judges probably know someone cannot tattoo their own back. Also, lol at the idea of stealing an honourable mention. Misery 12:37, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah I really thought there'd be more controversy over the cosplayer than this Tattoo since; as far as I can tell her B.F. (IE: probably another SO CASH guy who just happens to be obsessed with fantasy) is being handed 1st place just b/c he hooked up with and dressed up a Supermodel who just happens to look like Jora who always looked like every other super model from northern europe to begin with. So it was basically self fullfilling prophecy from the first day that Anet's Art director decided they needed Aesthetics over Content. But I guess realizing that long enough to complain about it would just depress too many people here who spent the last 4 years playing B/C of similar fanservice... friggin nerds. --ilr
- Regina, if you haven't yet, you should take a look at this post on GWG: another possible case of copyright infringement/plagiarist Minami Kaori 21:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC) 173.172.41.36 13:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- The cube folding mechanism wouldn't be be filed under a trademark or copyright... it would need to be Patented and there was no information on cubecraft about any active patents. --ilr 21:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- No, but on the template's original creator' website it clearly states that his templates CANNOT be used for commercial purposes, INCLUDING contests. While the cube folding "mechanism" is not patented here, the template and the original idea of the person designing it is the "property" of said person, and he doesn't give permission for it to be used in such a manner. Minami Kaori 22:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- That's just a disclaimer on the D/L'able content b/c he made multiple videogame & movie characters on there that he does not own copyrights on. IoW: he'd be flying a massive hypocrite flag if filed complaints about this... --ilr 23:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- The point is the submitter of the GW art to the contest used someone else's template, which should be grounds for disqualification as the rules say you must use your own original artwork. Seeing how the two templates match up perfectly, I'd say the submitter copied the template and put his own textures on it. --★KOKUOU★ 23:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- ...Which is like copyrighting a painting to Dick Blick just b/c it was smeared over one of their Canvases. ...keep reaching ya'll. --ilr 01:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- If that isn't enough grounds for disqualification, I wonder if the fact that she used the same words as the original template is (she didn't even paraphrase them).-- Shew 01:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- Now you have a point. Plagiarism is definitely a no-no
*awaits Anet's response* --ilr 02:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- In my opinion, using both the template and the text is plagiarism. The template was already created by someone who thought out all the ways it's going to be folded, etc. The contest entrant just put Mad King Thorn textures over it, the idea and the creativism that goes into fixing a foldable "toy" that works was simply stolen. The fact that the text was not even rewritten just adds to the whole picture. I also find it generally appalling that there's now 2 people who plagiarized other people's work. Minami Kaori 03:19, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- It's not really plagiarism because the entry-work was transformed. It's more of a derivative work. Now on its own, I believe that the idea of taking a well known papercraft template and making it so that one could create MKT out of it is pretty creative. However, the owner of the template is quite specific to the use of the template. It's a really interesting conundrum, and I think that the submitter could be ignorantly innocent. The submitter did put some substantial creativity and time in to the work. Yet, it is possible copyright infringement because the submitter clearly used the template that was covered under a usage license. Unlike a true plagiarist, I feel bad for all involved here. --Ravious 16:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- The difference between adding textures (like the moon and the guildwarslogo) on the disqualified entry and this one, seems subjective to me (and I don't think that's a good thing). You could say the disqualified "artist" put work into blending the moon into the background, but the fact that both contestants used content that wasn't theirs(+ the original artist mentioned that it can't be used in contests), seems like a breaking of the contest rules to me. The creating of such a folding template takes allot of work, and I think it's in a way part of the endresult. --Ellisia
16:35, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- The difference between adding textures (like the moon and the guildwarslogo) on the disqualified entry and this one, seems subjective to me (and I don't think that's a good thing). You could say the disqualified "artist" put work into blending the moon into the background, but the fact that both contestants used content that wasn't theirs(+ the original artist mentioned that it can't be used in contests), seems like a breaking of the contest rules to me. The creating of such a folding template takes allot of work, and I think it's in a way part of the endresult. --Ellisia
- It's not really plagiarism because the entry-work was transformed. It's more of a derivative work. Now on its own, I believe that the idea of taking a well known papercraft template and making it so that one could create MKT out of it is pretty creative. However, the owner of the template is quite specific to the use of the template. It's a really interesting conundrum, and I think that the submitter could be ignorantly innocent. The submitter did put some substantial creativity and time in to the work. Yet, it is possible copyright infringement because the submitter clearly used the template that was covered under a usage license. Unlike a true plagiarist, I feel bad for all involved here. --Ravious 16:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- In my opinion, using both the template and the text is plagiarism. The template was already created by someone who thought out all the ways it's going to be folded, etc. The contest entrant just put Mad King Thorn textures over it, the idea and the creativism that goes into fixing a foldable "toy" that works was simply stolen. The fact that the text was not even rewritten just adds to the whole picture. I also find it generally appalling that there's now 2 people who plagiarized other people's work. Minami Kaori 03:19, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- Now you have a point. Plagiarism is definitely a no-no
- If that isn't enough grounds for disqualification, I wonder if the fact that she used the same words as the original template is (she didn't even paraphrase them).-- Shew 01:12, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- ...Which is like copyrighting a painting to Dick Blick just b/c it was smeared over one of their Canvases. ...keep reaching ya'll. --ilr
- The point is the submitter of the GW art to the contest used someone else's template, which should be grounds for disqualification as the rules say you must use your own original artwork. Seeing how the two templates match up perfectly, I'd say the submitter copied the template and put his own textures on it. --★KOKUOU★ 23:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- That's just a disclaimer on the D/L'able content b/c he made multiple videogame & movie characters on there that he does not own copyrights on. IoW: he'd be flying a massive hypocrite flag if filed complaints about this... --ilr
- No, but on the template's original creator' website it clearly states that his templates CANNOT be used for commercial purposes, INCLUDING contests. While the cube folding "mechanism" is not patented here, the template and the original idea of the person designing it is the "property" of said person, and he doesn't give permission for it to be used in such a manner. Minami Kaori 22:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- The cube folding mechanism wouldn't be be filed under a trademark or copyright... it would need to be Patented and there was no information on cubecraft about any active patents. --ilr
- Regina, if you haven't yet, you should take a look at this post on GWG: another possible case of copyright infringement/plagiarist Minami Kaori 21:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC) 173.172.41.36 13:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for making us aware of the potential issue with the papercraft submission. This information was emailed to us over the weekend as well. We are looking into it at the moment. We have taken down the other entry, following a tip-off from a player in one of the forums.
- We're going to see if any other issues pop up with the other entries before making final decisions on the next highest ranking entries on the list.
- In future at contests, maybe we should require everyone to submit a "making-of" video in addition to their final submission. ;-) --Regina Buenaobra 21:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
- That or just put forward a suggested winners list and give the community a week to vet them for plagarism for you. (like we've already been doing on this contest and every contest before it) -- Salome
11:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
- That or just put forward a suggested winners list and give the community a week to vet them for plagarism for you. (like we've already been doing on this contest and every contest before it) -- Salome
Just a quick question related to the art contest - why are there only 9 listed honorable mention winners instead of 10? 65.207.54.194 19:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] So?
whats with the anet gvg guild? : DDDD what role will you play for example and how is it going? : OOOOO - Wuhy 
23:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
- ps. I saw the anet halloween pics and you are doinitrite :O - Wuhy 02:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
- lol reggie does not answer me because she is very evil and ruthless. - Wuhy 15:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- lol reggie does not answer me because she is very evil and ruthless. - Wuhy
[edit] My praise
My first point is my thanks to all the ArenaNet staff for a great Halloween. The decorations were fabulous, as always, the Costume Brawl was still amazing, the quests were fun yet very challenging and the arrival of King Thorn was the good old traditional arrival, with some great new masks-I was simply blown away. Thank you to all the staff for a superb delivery of the event.
I would also like to commend ArenaNet for their kindness-The ArenaNet wish. That was amazingly kind of you, letting a young girl with a failing heart into ArenaNet towers for a tour, and letting her test GW2. I escpecially liked the part i read where you rewrote the game just to include one small item, just to make it more special for her. You should be very very proud of yourselves.--Burning Freebies 11:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Question about the Test Krewe NDA
- → moved from Feedback talk:Linsey Murdock
I'm interested in participating in the Test Krewe, but I'm concerned that, if the NDA lasts too long, it would interfere with my ability to participate in the feedback namespace. Is the Test Krewe NDA available online? If not, could you provide some information on the NDA's duration / expiration clauses, or would I need to apply and get selected in order to get further information about the NDA? -- 
Gordon Ecker (talk) 08:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
- Also, when will we know that crew selection is complete? It says you can't contact everyone who signed up, but it'd be good if we knew when the process was complete. —Jette 08:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
- Well, like all thins ANet does, it will be done when it's done. I'll expect an general announcement saying the period within we should expect the emails, and once that period ends, you would know for sure if you are in or not: if you received the email, you are in, if you did not, you are out. At least the last zillion times I had something to do with something similar it was like that. MithTalk 13:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
- Well, like all thins ANet does, it will be done when it's done. I'll expect an general announcement saying the period within we should expect the emails, and once that period ends, you would know for sure if you are in or not: if you received the email, you are in, if you did not, you are out. At least the last zillion times I had something to do with something similar it was like that. Mith
[edit] hai Linsey
- → moved from Feedback talk:Linsey Murdock
If I redid all the PvP-viable skill icons that are available for players to actually place on their bar, except the res sig and a select number of others, would you guys consider updating the in-game skill icons? I'll do them at the standard 56x56 in-game resolution. The default in-game icons are kinda cruddy. :/ The sharpening seemed rushed, and there's a lot of noise that could have been avoided. I'm mostly done with them at 112x112, so 56x56 shouldn't be that hard to do. Also: if you wanted to upload all the icons that aren't usually available for people to view in hi-res (those that weren't in the skill icons pack, such as this one), it would make me happy. I know you have them stashed somewhere, but the artists who made them haven't responded to my e-mails. :( —Jette 
09:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- Duuuude, I would love this. Having to run TexMod just to get some slightly better default skill icons seems sucky, the really rough Elite frame and the gry areas surrounding the actual skill art are horrible and I've always wondered why they made the Elite frame so rough and the gray area so blurry. It makes it really hard to tell what some of the skill icons are :(. DarkNecrid 09:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- I would be overjoyed if ANet changed the default interface to the Glazed mod, but what I'm talking about is just the skill icons. They would look better, to be sure, but they would be the same icons, same size and no change to the interface. —Jette 10:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
- The frames make the icons not look flat. It reminds me of those rings with pictures personally, and considering the origin of the skills, that's probably a good thing. And you want skill icons to be 4 times bigger or what? I don't want to see the return of that stupid hourglass thingy, I want my skill icons to load fast. The only icons that are not "sharp" is a few Prophecies ones, but you'll probably only notice it if you're running a big interface... —
Poki#3 (talk) 07:44, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- Meh. It's not that important to me, mostly I'm just asking because I'm making a 56x56 mod anyway for some people I know, and if ANet wanted them (I'm not on a time constraint, so they will look better) they could have them, so that A) he doesn't have to run the mod and B) they look nicer for everyone. All in all, I doubt it will be implemented, since it'd probably a lot of extra files for people to download. Can't hurt to ask, though.
- And no, unless Linsey or somebody else specifically asked me to do it, I wouldn't have make them 112x112 or 224x224 for the "official" icons, because that's much larger than the default interface, and it has to be designed to suit the smallest available resolution (I believe in this case that's 800x600). My monitor is 1280x1024, and I'm upgrading to 1920x1080 sometime soon, so obviously my interface is a bit bigger than the default, skill icons especially.
- What makes my icons better is all of the following: first, I remove the JPEG artifacts with a proprietary tool (I should certainly hope the artists who made the icons had the sense to send them in .png format, rather than jpeg... the point is that I do it, though), then I resize them to the desired resolution, then denoise as necessary (usually a lot), then LAB smart sharpen (or unsharp mask sometimes, but much more often the smart function is better), increase saturation on the A & B channels when necessary (not often), increase the border to 1/7th the icon size (thus, a 56x56 icon needs a 4-pixel border on each side, though the color isn't important, leaving a 64x64 picture), then coloring to alpha (this is the step 99% of people miss, which is why their icons don't "flash" correctly, such as when they're casted or interrupted). I think ANet did this process rather hastily, most likely by using a poor resampling function and then oversharpening, which makes them look sorta cruddy. :/ I also assume they use the .dds file format, which means they probably compressed the files. Aside from leaving block-shaped artifacts, that also means that despite the reduced file size, it actually takes longer for a GPU to render them, since it has to decompress them. For files that receive so little benefit from lossy compression in the first place due to their small resolution, the best compression is actually no compression at all if you intend to put the icons in a graphics-intensive program. Actually, I'm just kidding, I have no idea of what I'm talking about. :3 —Jette 07:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- Well I'm pretty sure that I can say that no one wants "your" icon mod. Even if Lindsey or someone else at ArenaNet would add an "icon overhaul" project to the "to do" list, they would do it themselves, using the assets they have at the office. Asking them "Hey, do you want to use this thing I made in your game" will give you a "no" every time. I'm kind of overusing "quotes" I think... — Poki#3 (talk) 09:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- I wouldn't be so sure Poki. Jette isn't talking about a mod, just about a series of upgraded images. These images are already the property of ArenaNet, so there is no copyright issue, and if it works out to simply be a matter of uploading this new set of images onto the server, and they are indeed better suited and better quality, I don't see why ArenaNet wouldn't happily accept them. Jette is not looking for credit/compensation, just doing this for the love of the game. -- Wyn
talk 09:56, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- Ya, I gotta agree with Wyn here, idk why you think they'd just automatically turn this down. ^^ Plus he does good work (edit: maybe a good comparison on how it'd look vs current would help Jette? :D). DarkNecrid 14:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- I think you should better ask Joe for technical and performance limitations of the engine. BigBlue
talk 17:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Poki kind of has a point, the difference is rather negligible at 56x56. But as you can see here, it's still apparent when compared. Mine's on the left, the in-game version (ripped with texmod) is on the right. The only advantage the original has over mine is the lack of that ugly border on the edges, which is one of the advantages of using the original art rather than icons cut from the skill card packages released some time ago. The jpeg compression sort of "fused" the silver border with the edges of the image. I could probably remove it manually, but it would take a long time to do that for every image, and since that part of the icon isn't visible in-game anyway, I didn't really think it was worth the effort. Obviously, I skipped the last step here and didn't convert black to transparency, otherwise it would look really weird. —Jette 21:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
- No offense, but I didn't see enough of a difference between the two images at 32bbp 1680x1050 to make it worth the effort. There was some difference, yes, but not enough for me to care (or probably the vast majority of the userbase), since I don't stare at my icons all day long, I click on them (once in awhile) or hit numbers on my keyboard (more likely). I use the largest interface setting by the way, and if those are used on the smallest or default UI setting, the difference won't be noticeable at all during the actual game. This last sentence I wrote is especially true of anyone using widescreen LCD monitors. The difference was much more noticeable on CRT monitors at resolutions equal to or lower than 1152x864 though.-thejynxed- 16:46, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Poki kind of has a point, the difference is rather negligible at 56x56. But as you can see here, it's still apparent when compared. Mine's on the left, the in-game version (ripped with texmod) is on the right. The only advantage the original has over mine is the lack of that ugly border on the edges, which is one of the advantages of using the original art rather than icons cut from the skill card packages released some time ago. The jpeg compression sort of "fused" the silver border with the edges of the image. I could probably remove it manually, but it would take a long time to do that for every image, and since that part of the icon isn't visible in-game anyway, I didn't really think it was worth the effort. Obviously, I skipped the last step here and didn't convert black to transparency, otherwise it would look really weird. —Jette
- I think you should better ask Joe for technical and performance limitations of the engine. BigBlue
- I wouldn't be so sure Poki. Jette isn't talking about a mod, just about a series of upgraded images. These images are already the property of ArenaNet, so there is no copyright issue, and if it works out to simply be a matter of uploading this new set of images onto the server, and they are indeed better suited and better quality, I don't see why ArenaNet wouldn't happily accept them. Jette is not looking for credit/compensation, just doing this for the love of the game. -- Wyn
- Well I'm pretty sure that I can say that no one wants "your" icon mod. Even if Lindsey or someone else at ArenaNet would add an "icon overhaul" project to the "to do" list, they would do it themselves, using the assets they have at the office. Asking them "Hey, do you want to use this thing I made in your game" will give you a "no" every time. I'm kind of overusing "quotes" I think... —
- The frames make the icons not look flat. It reminds me of those rings with pictures personally, and considering the origin of the skills, that's probably a good thing. And you want skill icons to be 4 times bigger or what? I don't want to see the return of that stupid hourglass thingy, I want my skill icons to load fast. The only icons that are not "sharp" is a few Prophecies ones, but you'll probably only notice it if you're running a big interface... —
- I would be overjoyed if ANet changed the default interface to the Glazed mod, but what I'm talking about is just the skill icons. They would look better, to be sure, but they would be the same icons, same size and no change to the interface. —Jette
- I don't really see a project like this being feasible, but you could see if Regina or Martin wants to take it up as a Community project. -
Linsey talk 06:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] As we near the 7 month anniversary of the XTH being down...
Will we hear anything.....at all?.....just a tiny bit of info? Karate Jesus 20:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Forget Forget ! Forget ? Lilondra 20:27, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I don't want to forget! Noes! Karate Jesus 20:35, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- 10 e she does answer like that Lilondra 20:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- If we're both betting on the same side, how do we win money? And I hope not. It's been down for a loooong time without information and how long ago did we hear that they had the correct number of points? 2 months ago? Karate Jesus 20:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- The Waiting Game Lilondra 20:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- The Waiting Game Lilondra
- If we're both betting on the same side, how do we win money? And I hope not. It's been down for a loooong time without information and how long ago did we hear that they had the correct number of points? 2 months ago? Karate
- 10 e she does answer like that Lilondra
- I don't want to forget! Noes! Karate
[edit] Lyssa was the Greek goddess of rabies and mad rage, but also a zombie?
Anyway might be farfetched idea but I came to this conclusion thru vaccins.
I can't find documentation on what the inspiration for zombies was, but this is what I think was the inspiration for it. Earlier today I checked wich vaccines cats need, and I saw rabies between all the other stuff. Searched the net about the condition, learned how it spreads (bites, scratches, licks), what it is (a viral neuroinvasive disease that causes inflammation of the brain).
What do zombies do? they bite, wich causes there victim to turn into a zombie once death has occured (they come back to life once they have died in most movies, books, etc...), the typical zombie likes eating brains. Can you see the similarities?
Now why do I think Lyssa is an evil zombie? Because I read stuff about rabies?
Well here is the Etymology of the word rabies (taken from wikipedia):
"The term is derived from the Latin rabies, "madness". This, in turn, may be related to the Sanskrit rabhas, "to do violence". The Greeks derived the word "lyssa", from "lud" or "violent"; this root is used in the name of the genus of rabies lyssavirus."
Anyway if I would go further with my story it would end with a question like this: If she is an evil zombie goddess goeing on a rampage, would carrying the skill Frenzy fool Lyssa, making her ignore you? is frenzy a savior or will she spot the difference?
You don't have to answer anything, but getting an answer to the last question would be nice. Anyway this is just a "for fun thing" not something serious :D. 
Qaletaqa Hania 22:55, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Hilarious. Rypofalem 23:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Mutated viral strains of rabies and mad cow disease are the two most common explanations for the inevitable zombie apocalypse. None of that matters though, considering that it's a game and the devs can give whatever fucking explanation they want for zombies (Orr and all that).
- Lyssa was the goddess of madness, not necessarily rabies. Whoever made that addition to Wikipedia (lolwikipedia) obviously gave the ancient Greeks too much credit on their medical prowess. "Diseases" weren't fully understood in antiquity and people or animals who had contracted rabies would most likely have been considered possessed. A rudimentary understanding of how rabies was transfered was understood even prior to parchment writings, but that does not mean that they understood what it was, how to treat it, or how it affected living beings (and it definitely wasn't called "rabies" considering that the name itself has a Latin route). Lyssa is just the explanation for psychoses that they had no other way to explain.
- wut?
- Karate Jesus 23:14, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Unless he was secretly banging Lyssa on the side... Abbadon was the only one fitting that Cannon --ilr 23:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- @Party pooper aka. Karate Jesus: You know how rabies looks when an animal gets it? they bite, they go.... well mad. Don't know about people tho. Anyway here is a second story you might wanna analyze for.... inaccuracies:
- The chameleon with a hart of glass is telling you to be creative and also thinks a 7 legged dog with 17 fingers and one foot is controlling this colourful universe with eggs in the shape of bunnies is doeing nothing else then playing with spaghetti that is laughing because the night is a kiwi shaped like a giraffe and the day is a banana with a claw.
- That is to show how serious I am on certain days... and yes I write crap like that to say hello to my little friend called "twoobietingledoe" wich is living in my brain. Lighting up :).
Qaletaqa Hania 23:44, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was joking (being overly serious toward an obviously joking post = sarcasm). Was I not? Oh, and yes, I've seen rabid animals (many times). Got bit once. I don't recommend the shots....they hurt. Karate Jesus 23:46, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- I am also still joking alltho I thought you were beeing serious :), happens alot to me. Aspie for Life as you already know. Qaletaqa Hania 23:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Haha, and here I thought I was taking too much Berkeley. You guys really need to lay off the white stuff. –Jette 23:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Pure brain matter, no white stuff or any other drugs involved, pure grey brain matter. Qaletaqa Hania 23:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
- Pure brain matter, no white stuff or any other drugs involved, pure grey brain matter.
- Haha, and here I thought I was taking too much Berkeley. You guys really need to lay off the white stuff. –Jette
- Manu Ginobili would agree with you about the shots, KJ. If you don't know who that is, just google it. Also, I hope you realize the Lyssa was the Greek goddess of rabies and mad rage, which would explain why the virus was called rabies lyssavirus. 74.50.104.2 00:27, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I am also still joking alltho I thought you were beeing serious :), happens alot to me. Aspie for Life as you already know.
- Oh, sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was joking (being overly serious toward an obviously joking post = sarcasm). Was I not? Oh, and yes, I've seen rabid animals (many times). Got bit once. I don't recommend the shots....they hurt. Karate
- That is to show how serious I am on certain days... and yes I write crap like that to say hello to my little friend called "twoobietingledoe" wich is living in my brain. Lighting up :).
- Would be a fun halloween event, think about it: This year Lyssa, the Greek zombie goddess of rabies and mad rage has come to spread terror and fear amongst the puny little insects.... ok ok people that have been playing Mad King's little games the previous years. I'll make them eat brains.... I mean carrots and give them awful tasting homemade potions named euhm....... chocolate milk? Qaletaqa Hania 00:05, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, the original zombie legend came from the West Indies. Modern interpretations of the legend seem to basically boil down to drugged slaves. The John Romero-style infection-through-being-bitten zombies are a fairly recent variety of zombies that don't really bear a close resemblance to the term's mythological origins. Draxynnic 09:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah thats what some say, but I didn't wanna know where the original legend came from and I highly doubt that it came from the West Indies, there are older cultures wich have legends and myths about "the living dead", now if they are the inspiration for modern day zombies I don't know and I highly doubt there is someone that trully is sure. This was just a bit of fun I had with the thoughts I had about everything I read when reading about rabies. Qaletaqa Hania 20:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- The more important question here is: Are mummies just zombies with cloth wrappings? 74.50.104.2 23:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah thats what some say, but I didn't wanna know where the original legend came from and I highly doubt that it came from the West Indies, there are older cultures wich have legends and myths about "the living dead", now if they are the inspiration for modern day zombies I don't know and I highly doubt there is someone that trully is sure. This was just a bit of fun I had with the thoughts I had about everything I read when reading about rabies.
- Actually, the original zombie legend came from the West Indies. Modern interpretations of the legend seem to basically boil down to drugged slaves. The John Romero-style infection-through-being-bitten zombies are a fairly recent variety of zombies that don't really bear a close resemblance to the term's mythological origins. Draxynnic 09:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Dreadspawn Maw
Could it be a reference to the original Sarlacc Pit? - J.P.
Talk 02:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Ponos Fett ... j j jam it in .....(iow: this discussion is fraught with peril and should be avoided) --ilr 08:43, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Anything you can do ...
And no, I'm not going to talk about the norn-quest, I'm going to bring up the subject of your attempts to stave off speedclear efficiency and how it is affecting everyone else.
Farming builds utilize game mechanics to it's full potential, gaining efficiency at an exponential rate doing so compared to normal builds using the same mechanics. By going after farming builds, you are forced to come up with combinations that break those mechanics, or to simply pull out all the stops in terms of damage done or enemies spawned. This usually hits the people playing the game normally like a sledgehammer, while merely inconveniences farmers, at the very best just slows them down.
To take the recent changes to The Underworld. The skeletons were a detriment for solo-assassins relying on Shadow Form to survive, but in no means a deal-breaker. Farming builds easily adjust to this to work around it, with just some minor setbacks as far as time was concerned. You also changed the spawns for some of the quests, forcing normal parties to split up into two groups more often. Again, farming builds can easily adapt to further split, while the regular teams are not as fortunate. For most normal teams splitting up while still facing strong enemies is harsh. Normal teams don't have the luxory of having near invulnerable party members to care for, but instead they are under extreme pressure having to heal and protect everyone.
Farmers already go through these areas faster than normal teams, aquire better drops than you would completing the whole thing in a party. Speedclear teams also reap the rewards a lot faster than normal teams, hence why they occur in the first place. The problem is that the changes doesn't cause a detriment to do speedclears, it in fact gives you more and more reasons to. By making normal play even harder and speedclears just mildly affected, you're increasing the value of speedclears as they'll be even more time-efficient comparably speaking. Not to mention easier than normal play, again, comparably speaking.
Elite areas are barely worth it for their special drops as it is. They are high-end farming zones, because normal play through these areas rarely give enough special drops to make it worthwhile. It's not uncommon to only get a handful of ectos for the entire party, while finishing all the quests. For a normal party it takes a couple of hours, perhaps even more. To come out of that with perhaps just that one ecto from the end-chest is hardly inspiring. That's of course only if you actually finish. Should you fall on one of the many deal-breakers in The Underworld and fail before finishing, you more often than not end up with nothing, despite having finished several quests.
Now I have no idea how to give elite areas back to the people, without allowing farmers and speedclears unchecked access to the goodies. But as it stands, I just want it to pay off to strike up an alliance party with normal people and trudge through The Underworld for a few hours ... not everyone likes to farm.
I would like to hear your view on this Regina, as a community manager.
- Kherec 12:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I agree completely. I said this over on the skeletons of Dhuum page, and I'll say it here: permanent invincibility is a BAD THING. It's not a problem with the Underworld. It's a problem with shadowform and the supporting skills that allow an individual to achieve permanent invincibility. And as I said over there - I want to know if this sort of negligence [with regard to balance and game mechanics] is symptomatic of all of Anet and NCsoft games or just GW1... because I have no interest in playing GW2 if all I have to look forward to is a single outpost filled with "Charr W/mo R9+ reputation gimmick build only for SC" while the rest of the game is completely empty. 65.207.54.194 15:27, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. Of course it is impossible to balance any area around an invincibility skill such as Shadow Form, it will hurt everyone else more than the farmers - I play Monk, oh look at how happy I am when my Protection spells do absolutely nothing to help my team against skeletons. It's very simple, they would just need to nerf Shadow Form and any other potential subsititutes (Obby Flesh, etc, I dunno), but it seems like a 'political' decision towards the community...--Sensei 16:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yep, but they dont nerf it at the moment so it seems they have profit from it if people keep SC while it keeps them ingame and they won't lose players who are gone play other MMO's I guess. Which also use tactics to keep players in their games. So they say nerfing SF is no option but slowing it down can be done. Since people will keep farming anyway. Because if they slow it down it is slowed down for all farmers. So they dont stop farming. But if they nerf it they maybe quit the game. Death Sligher 20:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- They've barely slowed it down at all, and it won't be long before a new UWSC build is put together to buildwars the skeletons. The high-end PvE community is, if nothing else, creative and determined. 74.50.104.2 21:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yep, but they dont nerf it at the moment so it seems they have profit from it if people keep SC while it keeps them ingame and they won't lose players who are gone play other MMO's I guess. Which also use tactics to keep players in their games. So they say nerfing SF is no option but slowing it down can be done. Since people will keep farming anyway. Because if they slow it down it is slowed down for all farmers. So they dont stop farming. But if they nerf it they maybe quit the game. Death Sligher
- Agreed. Of course it is impossible to balance any area around an invincibility skill such as Shadow Form, it will hurt everyone else more than the farmers - I play Monk, oh look at how happy I am when my Protection spells do absolutely nothing to help my team against skeletons. It's very simple, they would just need to nerf Shadow Form and any other potential subsititutes (Obby Flesh, etc, I dunno), but it seems like a 'political' decision towards the community...--Sensei 16:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- This game isn't like other MMO's with degenerate camping & farming though. There is no subscription fee, therefore making them quit actually would save wear and tear on the servers which is the financially sound thing to do. And Limiting rewards per Account (like Nick Stanford) on this issue would by far be the most financially advantageous thing to do as it would force farmers to expend real currency directly to Anet to get more accounts. But they won't do that b/c Anet is a "Cronie-ocracy" of sorts. IE: they defy capitalism on many fronts for no apparent advantage. The REAL question here is: why does NcSoft keep putting up with it?? --ilr 21:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I guess because NCSoft knows the meaning of "dignity", "silly money making scheme", "insulting the inteligence of players" and etc. It's not hard to understand why some people actually run a business, while others are left harassing developers. Erasculio 21:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- +1 74.50.104.2 21:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I think he's technically harassing a Community Relations Manager....not a developer (not that he hasn't...he just isn't here). And, I could be wrong, but I think taking criticism is part of a CR's job. Again, could be wrong. But I think that's pretty common in like....every.game.ever. Karate Jesus 21:34, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I think I'll just ignore both of you b/c you're attempting to turn this into a Pseudo "morality" issue and apply characteristics to me which you have zero authority or proof to be applying. The bottom line is: mass farming & RMT'ing on a non-subscription game runs counter to the goals of capitalism. The O.P. is correct, Failure to properly address this issue by nerfing the GOD MODES just further alienates casual gamers who constitute Ncsoft's real profit margin. --ilr 23:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Believe me - you freely provide all the proof we could ever ask for. Self-incrimination just comes natural to some people. 74.50.104.2 23:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Oh PLEASE... why would I waste my time criticizing Community Reps? It's their JOBs to know as little as possible about game mechanics while appearing completely emotionless. Those who don't follow those simple guidelines end up like poor Erasculio here... letting criticism of something they have little control over drive every little response they make, devolving everything into a grudge match. ...which is also bad for business. --ilr 23:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- "why would I waste my time criticizing Community Reps?" Apparently, you do have a lot of time to spend criticizing Regina and Linsey. Arena Net must be making something right if they can make people obsess so much over their games... Erasculio 23:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- It would seem like Ilr is more of a crank than anything. He's not really trolling, he's just being unproductive and unnecessarily derogatory. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been permanently banned - it doesn't look like he makes a whole lot of positive of helpful contributions, if any at all. 74.50.104.2 23:52, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you'd troll someone elses question. Most of what you bring up has nothing to do with my question to Regina. - Kherec 07:33, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Then you should have made it an actual question by making it shorter ...I wasn't trolling, I was supporting your rant. Learn the difference. --ilr 00:27, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Then you should have made it an actual question by making it shorter ...I wasn't trolling, I was supporting your rant. Learn the difference. --ilr
- That's LoL-worthy coming from an IP-sock. I hope it would further demoralize your view of the world to learn that I haven't actually been banned even ONCE. Unlike you, I don't engage in NPA's. I'm constantly the target of them, but some of those who participated were B& atleast partially for it. And I wouldn't intentionally attack Linsey. I <3 her moxie. --ilr 00:27, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you'd troll someone elses question. Most of what you bring up has nothing to do with my question to Regina. - Kherec 07:33, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Getting back on track Era: ...I admit, I really don't know what Robert has planned for these mobs. It could be something really ingenious. This stuff about giving mobs "Health Loss" style attacks is rather clever too and has probably single-handedly increased the value of Skelton-slaying Handle mods ten-fold. The only problem is, it FORCES a very specific party-build that excludes a lot of Paragon, Protection, Warrior, Dervish, and Rit builds in exchange for ONLY HEALING MONKS. It's bad enough PuGs and dungeon runners all over this game only care about LoD/heal-spamming. Forcing it on everyone else too is typically what you'd refer to as "Hamfisted" a solution. If this is a preview of how they intend to overhaul every Elite area, then I think most casual players could safely uninstall the game right now without missing a thing. --ilr 00:27, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- It would seem like Ilr is more of a crank than anything. He's not really trolling, he's just being unproductive and unnecessarily derogatory. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been permanently banned - it doesn't look like he makes a whole lot of positive of helpful contributions, if any at all. 74.50.104.2 23:52, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- "why would I waste my time criticizing Community Reps?" Apparently, you do have a lot of time to spend criticizing Regina and Linsey. Arena Net must be making something right if they can make people obsess so much over their games... Erasculio 23:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- Oh PLEASE... why would I waste my time criticizing Community Reps? It's their JOBs to know as little as possible about game mechanics while appearing completely emotionless. Those who don't follow those simple guidelines end up like poor Erasculio here... letting criticism of something they have little control over drive every little response they make, devolving everything into a grudge match. ...which is also bad for business. --ilr
- Believe me - you freely provide all the proof we could ever ask for. Self-incrimination just comes natural to some people. 74.50.104.2 23:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- I think I'll just ignore both of you b/c you're attempting to turn this into a Pseudo "morality" issue and apply characteristics to me which you have zero authority or proof to be applying. The bottom line is: mass farming & RMT'ing on a non-subscription game runs counter to the goals of capitalism. The O.P. is correct, Failure to properly address this issue by nerfing the GOD MODES just further alienates casual gamers who constitute Ncsoft's real profit margin. --ilr
- I guess because NCSoft knows the meaning of "dignity", "silly money making scheme", "insulting the inteligence of players" and etc. It's not hard to understand why some people actually run a business, while others are left harassing developers. Erasculio 21:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- This game isn't like other MMO's with degenerate camping & farming though. There is no subscription fee, therefore making them quit actually would save wear and tear on the servers which is the financially sound thing to do. And Limiting rewards per Account (like Nick Stanford) on this issue would by far be the most financially advantageous thing to do as it would force farmers to expend real currency directly to Anet to get more accounts. But they won't do that b/c Anet is a "Cronie-ocracy" of sorts. IE: they defy capitalism on many fronts for no apparent advantage. The REAL question here is: why does NcSoft keep putting up with it?? --ilr
[edit] SRO and GW Skill Icons Usage
Just bringing this to your attention, Silkroad Online, a popular "Free 2 Play" MMO that stays afloat by using a cash shop was recently posted on Guru to be using skill icons PRETTY similar to Guild Wars. It looks like they are nearly the exact same except changed in little ways and considering one of them is literally a World of Warcraft skill icon but with some extra lines added to it, I wouldn't be surprised. Here's a few examples! Not all of them resemble GW Icons but to point out a few, top row 1st one = Aftershock, 3rd row 3rd one = Smite Hex, 5th row 4th one = Ravenous Gaze, Reverse Hex, Executioner's Strike, and Winter. Since they get profit off this game, thought I'd bring it to your attention just in case. ^^ DarkNecrid 00:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- I shrank the icons and made a comparison, they aren't replicas. They are similar, especially the aftershock one, but not identical. The artists probably took some inspiration from GW icons or any of the other million MMO/fantasy game icons out there. –Jette 00:32, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- As an aside, this Defense of the Ancients hero (a custom map for Warcraft, Frozen Throne, in case you didn't know) uses the Conjure Phantasm icon for their ultimate skill, Haunt: [1]. King Neoterikos 02:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Sue them! GOGOGO. Or just...you know...threaten a suit for copyright infringement so they'll remove it. Karate Jesus 02:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Alternatively, they could just be not dicks and pretend they don't know about it because ruining some stupid kids' fun is totally worth the $20,000.00 it takes just to write a letter involving the word "lawsuit." Besides, didn't you know? Changing the colors and using the JPEG compression method changes the file sufficiently that it's considered an original work, even though everyone knows it's bullshit. I can prove it, too: run it through a hash sum, it'll be totally different. –Jette 04:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- SRO isn't made by a stupid kid, it's made by a popular Korean company. :p And Icefrog is an adult working at Valve now, but I believe it's "ok" that he uses GW images in DotA because he does not receive any profit from DotA, King Neo. DarkNecrid 04:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- That's true. King Neoterikos 06:44, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- SRO isn't made by a stupid kid, it's made by a popular Korean company. :p And Icefrog is an adult working at Valve now, but I believe it's "ok" that he uses GW images in DotA because he does not receive any profit from DotA, King Neo. DarkNecrid 04:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Alternatively, they could just be not dicks and pretend they don't know about it because ruining some stupid kids' fun is totally worth the $20,000.00 it takes just to write a letter involving the word "lawsuit." Besides, didn't you know? Changing the colors and using the JPEG compression method changes the file sufficiently that it's considered an original work, even though everyone knows it's bullshit. I can prove it, too: run it through a hash sum, it'll be totally different. –Jette
- Sue them! GOGOGO. Or just...you know...threaten a suit for copyright infringement so they'll remove it. Karate
- As an aside, this Defense of the Ancients hero (a custom map for Warcraft, Frozen Throne, in case you didn't know) uses the Conjure Phantasm icon for their ultimate skill, Haunt: [1]. King Neoterikos 02:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
[edit] The Waiting Game
Answered. This section has been answered and should be archived by Monday, 9 Nov 2009 to Game relatedThis is going to be one hell of a bitch.
This has to be one of the most prime examples of how Arenanet's lack of communication causes un-necessary issues. There are people who aren't aware that the preparation time means days time, people are sitting around waiting for the quest to update, there are trolls and idiots compending an already confusing situation for a lot of players. Just go into some of the ToA districts and you actually see it happening: the confusion, the lack of information, the baiters and trollers making it worse. Would it be so hard, so truly difficult for one of you at Arenanet to just include an official message in the actual quest information... you know, directly in game where everyone with the quest can get it... saying something like "The preparations need some time, we are not talking about hours but days, so you don't need to be awake the whole night. ;)" ".... Or is that not a worthwhile thing... you know... combatting the confusion generated by this situation? Honestly, these things aren't hard, why are you guys struggling with common sense? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 01:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Some times I'm amazed people can actually feed themselves. We need restaurants to have signs over each table saying, "please move the spoon into your mouth". Erasculio 01:05, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, I am also amazed that casual gamers are unable to check the wiki for every single update and then, when realizing that there is not enough information on the update page, search the RC for Regina's Journal post about this. OR that they simply can't go to a forum and hunt through threads named similarly to "Last (?) Halloween Quest" and realize that that's obviously the information they need. Because apparently, having a life and being a casual gamer makes you the equivalent of an unsupported brainstem hanging out of a deformed monkey's ass.
- On a side note, Eras, realize that some people would like the information to simply be on their log-in screen LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING GAME. Karate Jesus 02:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- We sure did get our great suprise for this halloween :/ - J.P.Talk 03:06, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- You forgot twitter, and the fact the the official wiki and ingame are the two places the information reaches last (if even at all), go figure. I lost count on how many times Anet employees post on twitter, guru and god knows where else, while their journals and other places on this wiki where it's supposed to go, remain silent. - Kherec 07:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- It's news to me that WoW has a time table on its login screen letting people know the hour each quest is going to happen; I wonder how that looks like on Aion's screen, too.
- You forgot one option, KJ: not assume, by themselves and thanks to their own fault, that the quest would happen in the next few hours and thus not waste their time waiting on the Temple of Ages. Arena Net has not given any sign of that being required in order to do the quest; it's the players' own mistake assuming, regardless of the lack of evidence, that they need to do so.
- Meanwhile, instead of using their resources to add in-game a notice to clear a misconception 100% originated from players, maybe it would be smarter for ArenaNet, you know, to use said resources to improve the quest so many people are waiting for? Like they are doing right now? Erasculio 09:42, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Erasculio wins this round, KJ. Even WoW doesn't have login announcements to tell people the timing of festival quests, you're supposed to like... read the quest log and stuff. IMO they could have added a bit more dialog to the voice of grenth to make sure people aren't sitting there waiting for hours, but they really don't have to do that much external communication for a halloween quest. -Auron 10:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yea, I didn't exactly make what I was saying clear. I didn't think they should announce the timeline for the festival quest on the log-in page. That was a carrying over conversation. I think that should have been put in the original update page rather than the playful crap we got that gave no info. The log-in page would be more of a place where you let people know that the quest exists and then link it to the wiki....which should have said the "days, not hours" thing in the first place. But, at least it was funny watching everyone in ToA freak out. Karate Jesus 15:06, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Yea, I didn't exactly make what I was saying clear. I didn't think they should announce the timeline for the festival quest on the log-in page. That was a carrying over conversation. I think that should have been put in the original update page rather than the playful crap we got that gave no info. The log-in page would be more of a place where you let people know that the quest exists and then link it to the wiki....which should have said the "days, not hours" thing in the first place. But, at least it was funny watching everyone in ToA freak out. Karate
- Erasculio wins this round, KJ. Even WoW doesn't have login announcements to tell people the timing of festival quests, you're supposed to like... read the quest log and stuff. IMO they could have added a bit more dialog to the voice of grenth to make sure people aren't sitting there waiting for hours, but they really don't have to do that much external communication for a halloween quest. -Auron 10:28, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- You forgot twitter, and the fact the the official wiki and ingame are the two places the information reaches last (if even at all), go figure. I lost count on how many times Anet employees post on twitter, guru and god knows where else, while their journals and other places on this wiki where it's supposed to go, remain silent. - Kherec 07:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- We sure did get our great suprise for this halloween :/ - J.P.
What the hell is the OP even babbling about?-- 
anguard 16:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- So it seems to me that a few people dislike being kept in suspense and would like the designers to be explicit about the timing. I'll certainly deliver your feedback to Linsey. From what I understand, she wanted this to be a fun, suspenseful interlude (and a few people have certainly taken up the spirit of the quest, because there is some good speculation going on in various communities) before the fireworks begin, but sounds like people would rather have details on timing. --Regina Buenaobra 19:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Reggie, I could be wrong, but I dont think anyone here meant that. I think they meant that it would be polite of you to make the whole game aware that the wait will be more than a few hours. That way the suspense can be fun without making people angry and frustrated. 66.90.104.129
- So it seems to me that a few people dislike being kept in suspense and would like the designers to be explicit about the timing. I'll certainly deliver your feedback to Linsey. From what I understand, she wanted this to be a fun, suspenseful interlude (and a few people have certainly taken up the spirit of the quest, because there is some good speculation going on in various communities) before the fireworks begin, but sounds like people would rather have details on timing. --Regina Buenaobra
- The only way that we could make "the whole game" aware of the specifics of the wait-time is to change the quest text itself. The login screen suggestion is probably not something that would be approved because the login screen isn't traditionally used for this. Having both community managers go into a district and sit there for hours repeating the same information doesn't achieve the goal, because it only gives the info to English or German speaking players who happen to be in that district and that particular point in time. I agree that this issue appears to be a pain point for a few players. --Regina Buenaobra 20:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Again I could be wrong, as i seem to be one of the few who enjoys the suspense of this quest, but I think people would have been happy with the quest text being a wee bit more explicit, in that it might have mentioned being summoned to fight dhuum in a matter of days. That way making it clear to players who don't seem to like the wait. Just playing devils advocate here, as i said before, I quite like the suspense. -- Salome 20:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- The problem with that being how, in a matter of days, the quest text would still be saying the event would only happen in a few days regardless of how it would happen in a few hours. Either Arena Net would have to change the quest text (for the third time), or they would have to remove the NPC significantly before the event arrives (which means less people would be able to participate). Erasculio 22:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Again I could be wrong, as i seem to be one of the few who enjoys the suspense of this quest, but I think people would have been happy with the quest text being a wee bit more explicit, in that it might have mentioned being summoned to fight dhuum in a matter of days. That way making it clear to players who don't seem to like the wait. Just playing devils advocate here, as i said before, I quite like the suspense. -- Salome
- The only way that we could make "the whole game" aware of the specifics of the wait-time is to change the quest text itself. The login screen suggestion is probably not something that would be approved because the login screen isn't traditionally used for this. Having both community managers go into a district and sit there for hours repeating the same information doesn't achieve the goal, because it only gives the info to English or German speaking players who happen to be in that district and that particular point in time. I agree that this issue appears to be a pain point for a few players. --Regina Buenaobra
(Reset indent) Well, technically they could code the number in the text dialog to be a countdown, if the code side of the game allows for such things. I don't mind the waiting at all, as long as you have more than a few days to complete the next part of the quest. If the next part was only available for, say, only a day and I happened to log in to check on it 30 minutes before it starts and then not log in for another two days, then I'd see something to complain about. --★KOKUOU★ 22:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
(Reset indent) A question on the quest: I understand that we will only be able to obtain the quest for a short period of time. Will the quest be available (or whatever we're waiting for) for only a short period of time also? Thanks!Underated
22:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- Given the 'unique' nature of the quest, it literally being the only quest I've ever seen executing a real life wait time in such a manner (still question why, are you still making the quest up?), I would have thought a clearer defination of it would have been delivered (especially with it being considered a festival quest, yet the festival is over etc and so on). But, this appears to be done as a device to deliever suspense (?).
- Regardless, I still question why putting the notification outside of the game was seen as more productive than actually putting it on the quest. I mean, you made the defination for people to see, because people wanted to know, why not just put it in the text for the quest itself? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 23:26, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
- As I said before put a countdown for such events on the website,ingame or whatever just a clock. The Waiting Game starts over: .... minutes orso. Death Sligher 00:32, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Timer would only work if they themselves knew when it was going to start. For all we know the quest isn't actually completed yet, thus the uniqueness of this quest. We just don't know. It's safe to say nothings going to change, regardless. Just live for the suspense. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 00:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Very ironically, this - exactly this - shows how all the whinning about more communication was completely empty. We got a lot of "Baaaaaw, Arena Net should let people know when stuff is coming in-game!" from a very vocal minority, and we got exactly that - a quest to let people know about something incoming. The result? As expected, exactly the same vocal minority is making exactly the same complains about how there has to be more communication, how it's not enough, and etc.
- Arena Net should have learned by now that most of those demanding "more" of something will never be satisfied, as this example perfectly shows. Instead of wasting their resources writing, localizing and coding the placeholder of a quest that we have today, Arena Net should have simply stayed in silence and implemented the full quest once it had been finished. Would people have complained? Yes, exactly the same users who are complaining now. However, players wouldn't have wasted their time, Arena Net wouldn't have wasted Linsey's and Joe's time, and Regina wouldn't have to waste her time talking about this here and on the GW forums. Silence often is golden, while talking often (just look above) is trash. Erasculio 01:38, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- wUT? ...granted your post is already pretty long, but you're gonna need to elaborate on how exactly you made that logic jump from point Alpha to "they're all Malcontents" Gamma. Us "whiners" who you don't have the stones to name individually for NPA reasons, wanted DETAILS. We were already getting "communication" in the form of generalities and time-frame promises 99.9% devoid of substance. The part where communication needed to be beefed up was on DETAILS and in this case, Null-IP has a point. I don't condone his word-choices, but this quest & info gave us absolutely nothing in the way of details. I don't think even You could come up with a more cryptic leap of faith E.T.A. in-text-form even though your own post here certainly shows I'd be a fool to doubt you...
--ilr 02:00, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Funny how I don't even have to name people for someone to identify himself with the designation of "whiner". Spare me the excuses - "more" communication, "more" details, it all boils down to wanting a vague "more" that, as being exemplified here, won't ever be enough. Arena Net should learn that not all players are going to be pleased, no matter what they do, and that acting is more important than talking. Erasculio 03:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- What the hell are you even going on about, Eras, this has nothing to do with "more" information, I don't know where you're getting that from. At it's core, this still boils down to why Arenanet make a quest that requires a 'couple of real world days' for it to update ( a first for Guild Wars ) yet put that important piece of information outside of the game rather than in the game where, if you think about it, it would have been far more effective. There's building mystery, suspense and all that jazz but no sense of mystery or suspense would have been shattered by putting the information they put everywhere else in the quest log itself. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 06:34, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Heh, "this has nothing to do with "more" information" goes in direct contradiction to "yet put that important piece of information outside of the game". That's the cause of this problem - after the epic rants we got about how Arena Net should add information about incoming news in the game, they decided to do exactly that, and surprise, it doesn't work.
- Let me spell it to you slowly: Arena Net could not say in-game that the quest would take a "couple of real world days" because after a "couple real world days" the quest would still say the same thing. It's perfectly viable to say it outside the game since on the wiki and on the GW forums people know exactly when Arena Net said it, so it's easy to guess when the quest will happen.
- Again, the epic rants on demanding more information, especially in-game information, are completely pointless. The game has not been made with that kind of design in mind, and changing the game in order to make it viable would not only be extremely irrelevant (improving the game is more important than wasting resources talking about how to improve the game) but also a waste of the few resources Arena Net has (improving the game is more important than wasting resources talking about how to improve the game).
- What's the lesson here? If Arena Net does not give information in game, a very vocal and very small minority will complain. If they do give information in game, a very vocal and very small minority will complain plus Arena Net will have wasted resources they could have used into something more important. It is rather obvious what Arena Net should do. Erasculio 11:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Eras, I'm sorry but I think you are over simplifying. Yes I agree no matter what anet do their will be peeps who bitch and moan about it, however their is a sizeable chunk of people who do not fall into the "lets bitch and moan about everything" camp who would appreciate a modicum of extra information. I'm one of those people and I know their are many others.
- To be blunt, I think the quest dialogue was fine and I don't understand why people are complaining about it, as a bit of patience goes a long way and I do agree with you that people complaining about this, do seem a tad on the moan'y side. When the Reaper told me to go away and come back later, I just assumed it was days and not hours.
- I think the quest dialogue could have contained a cryptic reference to when it will continue by making use of the many fixed point events that fall in this time period, for example Thanksgiving or Guy Fawkes night, that way the quest would always have been accurate with no need to change over time. (for example it could have said that they plan on staging there attack against dhuum 3 days after the night of Fawkes or 2 days before the feast of thanks and so on and so forth...)
- However all of this is quite by the by, simply put Eras, you continue to lump everyone who wants more information into a minority of discontents which simply is neither informed, accurate or fair and is a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. True this quest is something stupid to moan about but most of the people I know in game are informed and understanding adults (the joys of being in an adult guild), who enjoy being treated as such and they appreciate being met half way by anet in communication. However in regards to more important aspects of the game, they do not appreciate being ran round the houses with vague comments and then being told later that it was them who misinterpreted anet, not anet which dropped the ball. (see the current issue arising with the lack of a published skill update after it was expressly stated that doing so would be part of the move to the bi-monthly skill cycle). So yeh Eras I agree, bitching and moaning about a festival quest is just that, bitching and moaning, however having a valid complaint about crap communication in regards to actual things (skill updates and game content) should not just be lumbered in with that. -- Salome 12:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- What the hell are you even going on about, Eras, this has nothing to do with "more" information, I don't know where you're getting that from. At it's core, this still boils down to why Arenanet make a quest that requires a 'couple of real world days' for it to update ( a first for Guild Wars ) yet put that important piece of information outside of the game rather than in the game where, if you think about it, it would have been far more effective. There's building mystery, suspense and all that jazz but no sense of mystery or suspense would have been shattered by putting the information they put everywhere else in the quest log itself. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 06:34, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Funny how I don't even have to name people for someone to identify himself with the designation of "whiner". Spare me the excuses - "more" communication, "more" details, it all boils down to wanting a vague "more" that, as being exemplified here, won't ever be enough. Arena Net should learn that not all players are going to be pleased, no matter what they do, and that acting is more important than talking. Erasculio 03:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- wUT? ...granted your post is already pretty long, but you're gonna need to elaborate on how exactly you made that logic jump from point Alpha to "they're all Malcontents" Gamma. Us "whiners" who you don't have the stones to name individually for NPA reasons, wanted DETAILS. We were already getting "communication" in the form of generalities and time-frame promises 99.9% devoid of substance. The part where communication needed to be beefed up was on DETAILS and in this case, Null-IP has a point. I don't condone his word-choices, but this quest & info gave us absolutely nothing in the way of details. I don't think even You could come up with a more cryptic leap of faith E.T.A. in-text-form even though your own post here certainly shows I'd be a fool to doubt you...
- Timer would only work if they themselves knew when it was going to start. For all we know the quest isn't actually completed yet, thus the uniqueness of this quest. We just don't know. It's safe to say nothings going to change, regardless. Just live for the suspense. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 00:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- As I said before put a countdown for such events on the website,ingame or whatever just a clock. The Waiting Game starts over: .... minutes orso. Death Sligher
- "Arena Net could not say in-game that the quest would take ... the quest would still say the same thing." Of course the dialogue would say the same thing, why is that an issue for you? It's literally text in a quest stage, dude, you're waaaaaaay too over-thinking what would actually be required for all this. Guild Wars can update mutiple quest stages at once, Eras, it also crosses out text because requirements have been met and brings up new text where avaliable. All quests dialogue stays the same, however in situations where requirements are met the game updates it to be necessary stage, in this case it would just cross out the time reference stage and go to the next one, leaving the reference in the history, just like every other quest in the game. For people taking the quest after the preparation time, if it's still avaliable, it would just update twice once you talk to the Voice the first time. "It's perfectly viable"
- And, I'm sorry if this seems moany, but I spent a large portion of my day in game, when this quest first came out, directing people to Regina's journal page so they could see that it was going to be a few days before it updates because people didn't, like Salome and others, immediately assume it meant it was days away, and the common thing I heard was why they didn't put that in the quest instead of just leaving it open and putting it out of the game. So that's part of the reason I posted this in the first place. Suspense, fun, treats all that good stuff is all well and good, but they can be handled better, especially seeing as how people don't necessarily see it how Arenanet may want it to be seen. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 12:29, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- Salome, I'm not saying every complain about communication is invalid. I'm saying the very long rants we got about how Arena Net should add more information about future events in-game are invalid, since that's outside what the game can currently do, as is being exemplified. Plus, every demand for "more" - as in, a vague definition of "more" that isn't detailed - has to be taken with a grain of salt, given how the amount of said "more" needed is controversial at best. A good example of this is the storage problem - plenty of people kept asking for "more" storage, but without specifying how much storage they wanted, anything Arena Net did could still be seen as not enough.
- 000, the quest text doesn't change in the way you're claiming it does. There is no quest in which the NPC who gives the text has a different quest description based on the time; in other words, if a character who went today to the Steward to get the quest for the first time saw a notice about how he would have to wait a few days, a character who went to see the Steward in a few days would still see the same notice since the NPC dialogue doesn't change. What the game crosses out are the objectives once the quest has been added to the quest log, not the quest description. You could ask Arena Net to implement such thing as a new feature, and then we go back to wasting resources that they could be using to improve the fight against Dhuum, not the quest about telling people to wait for the battle against Dhuum.
- I do agree with you this could have been handled better - Arena Net shouldn't have made this quest at all. They should have simply stayed in silence until the real quest were done, and then implemented it without wasting time with this "Waiting Game" thing. Which is the exact opposite of what some rants were telling them to do. Erasculio 12:46, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with most of your post, but I vehemently disagree with your assumption that they cannot add more information in-game. If anything is important enough to warrant a journal post or guru thread, it should be mentioned in the login notes (mentioned, not talked about in great detail). If people are interested in getting the full scoop, they can follow the link on the login announcement screen that goes to the Journal post.
- For this quest in particular, there was another option for in-game information - the quest dialog. The NPC says "come back later," but it could have easily been written to say "we will be awhile in preparing for this glorious battle, don't hang around this outpost waiting all day," and that would have given people the right idea without telling them a specific number (or even saying "days"). People bitch about everything, but there are little things ANet could do that would go a long way to alleviate the confusion these things cause. I'm not talking about spending 500 man hours making some new in-game announcement system, I'm just talking about tweaking what they're already putting into the game to be a little more informative. This doesn't have to be a huge ass effort - they're good enough at wasting their time on their own. I just suggest things that have the best payoff for the least amount of work. Y'know, the opposite of what happened with the hench bar contest? :/ -Auron 13:12, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I like the quest and the suspense. Granted, I won't be one of the (stupid) people sitting in ToA/ZKC/CoS waiting for the next step. King Neoterikos 02:57, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi Regina, When the Dhuum battle goes live will there be an annoucement on the guild wars website much like the mox quests? 
Dero Ahmonati 15:47, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
