User talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Game Related Topics/July 2008

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Contents 1 GW2 FAQs 2 Changes to Shadow Form 3 What is going to happen to those who don't have FoW armour after GW 2 is released 4 Corsair Prisoner 5 Hall of Monument Question 6 Dragon Festival quests/missions 7 Shadow Form Damage Reduction Change? Possibly? 8 A quote 9 Gender and the new masks 10 Guild Wars 2 - Anti-Grind 11 A Question 12 Third Birthday 13 I don't want to die without even trying... 14 well regina, any plans to nerf Shadow Form even further to the extent that we can't use it to farm bosses or other foes anymore? 15 Wintersday in July 16 Wintersday Decoration 17 Elite Areas for the other Gods? 18 Sexual Dimorphism! 19 Survivor Title Problem 20 Luxon/Kurzick versus Sunspear title 21 Its raining... BEES!?!? O_o 22 Monthly Tonic Rotation 23 Nostalgia 24 Zaishen Keys and Reordering the Hall of Monuments Statues 25 Frosty Tonic, the tonic that makes you like a Snowman. Does it really exist? 26 Chaos Gloves in HoM? 27 PvE Balance

GW2 FAQs

So, I read the GW2 FAQ page that was put up today. It was mostly stuff we have already heard, but 2 things stuck out in my mind, and they each concern me greatly

1: The phrase "find equipment". I understand weapons, but does the finding part include armor? I sure hope not.

2: "With Guild Wars 2 we will commence beta testing closer to the game's release. With that in mind, we will not start beta testing in 2008 as we had originally planned." So, is there not gunna be anything new GW2 related at PAX if your gunna keep us in suspense then?

I'm a little more concerned by those questions than reassured..... --Wolf 21:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Pathetic. -- Brains12 \ talk 21:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Care to explain your statement? --Wolf 21:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I'd like to thank ANet for at least posting something reminding players who don't visit the wiki on a daily basis or talk on the talk pages like this all the time that they are still working on GW2 and that it hasn't just disappeared completely off the map. I personally was excited to see that there was a new post to the GW RSS feed (which I check fairly often) regarding GW2, and even though there wasn't a whole lot of new information, it was nice to see that ANet is being honest with the player base and letting us all know that the schedule for the project has been pushed back. Sure, this means no beta testing in 08, but I like the honesty that ANet is projecting here. In summary, kudos to you folk for reminding the player base that GW2 hasn't disappeared entirely. --Ang 21:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

This is one of those little things that will sit there and nibble at the back of my brain making it even harder to Wait for PAX ( I WANNF FREAKIN GO! =D ), and GW2...... But yeah, bit of a bummer that GW2 beta got pushed back, but thanks for letting us knwo that it did get pushed back before we made it inot Q3 08 and people started asking, "WTF? Where is the GW2 beta?". The loop may not be as big as I (and probably everyone else) would like, but you are keeping us in it, and thats a very good thing, thanks for that, and don't let us fall out of it. --Wolf 21:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Almost all information on Guild Wars 2 had been released last year along with the EoTN news. All the FAQ listed was what we already know, along with the fact that we probably won't be hearing more until it's released. It seems that even a rough release estimate (even the year) is not known by ArenaNet -- "when it's finished" is hardly showing your confidence in a 2009/2010 release. What with the beta being close to the actual release, it seems that Guild Wars 2 information will be coming along with it, and not before. Why the Guild Wars 2 Wiki was opened in December 2007, I do not know -- especially considering there won't even be a beta this year, and it will probably be in late 2009 at the very best. The beta was the only thing about Guild Wars I was looking forward to this year (even the hope of having one this year). All they've done is simply removed that hope and replaced it with nothing -- we do not have any sort of time scale whatsoever in regards to Guild Wars 2. That is, simply put, pathetic. -- Brains12 \ talk 21:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

And there isnt coming a update to gw1 either I think many people go play other games now:/, guildies of my play AoC instead of guildwars at the moment. I think it only will become more, now we know there is no beta this year. 145.53.242.142 22:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

On the other hand, i would prefer to wait a little longer (as long as it's not a w:Duke Nukem Forever-like "longer") than having the game next year at the price of having half of the content bugged, and the other half not even being "live" in the game (something that has already happened in "Other games"(tm)). Besides, i think SG-Worlds comes this year, so we can still use Asura Gates there :).--Fighterdoken 22:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

OMG OMG OMG OMG STARGATE. -- Brains12 \ talk 22:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I am very pleased A'net announced that beta will not be held in 2008, not because I like the delay, but because I know there is one. Now I can take up all my holidays at work this year without worrying. I hope this FAQ is a start of little pieces of information, story teaser, eye candy, to be announced. The FAQ says indeed a lot that wiki users already know long time (and other fansites), but it's nice that they post something indeed! I do believe GW2 will be awesome, like they state here again, but I also hope enough information is going to be released for fansites and gwwiki2 to be ready for the game. Gogo A'net =) -- (Tribina / talk) 22:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I sure hope they either do some stuff for Guild Wars or at least dribble out information here and there for Guild Wars 2 otherwise I believe my motivation to go out and buy Guild Wars 2 will be diminished by the time its released. One of the many 'make or break' elements for me is going to be what from Guild Wars is actually going to be returning for Guild Wars 2. Where in the world the Guild Wars 2 storyline(s) will be taking place. The professions (or whatever system they are going to be using to represent what we have in Guild Wars). For me if I wait until its released and find out its a newer version of the Proph and Eye of the North map I'm going to be severely displeased, as well as if only the core professions return. One of my main fears is that Arenanet is going to basically do a new engine revamp of Guild Wars, releasing the Proph map first (with the Eye of the North), then Factions or Nightfall maps to follow. So far no imformation were are given really motivates me to really care about Guild Wars 2. Presistent areas are always a concern and the longer we have to wait for 'not completely game revealing information' the more I feel my decision to go out and buy the game will be swayed to not. 000.00.00.00 23:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

(RI) "What with the beta being close to the actual release, it seems that Guild Wars 2 information will be coming along with it, and not before"...What? So wait, despite how we had plenty of information about Guild Wars 1 well before the open beta, and how we know as a fact that Arena Net will be at PAX this august, and despite the fact that many games actually deliver a lot of information about their games before beta...You suddenly comes to the conclusion that GW2 information will only be given to us when the beta begins? Right. I'm curious of what do you expect Arena Net to do at PAX - do you see them in front of an empty stand, with James Phinney giving a speech saying "Nope, nothing new to say"? Please, less empty assumptions, more discussion. Erasculio 00:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"despite how we had plenty of information about Guild Wars 1 well before the open beta" - somewhat irrelevant and proven otherwise in this case. We've had no information for over a year and they don't seem to want to give us any in the meantime. "that Arena Net will be at PAX this august" - that was not in my mind, but it seems more likely that they'll release information in a magazine; it seems very ArenaNet, and it's how the initial information came about. Not sure what they'll be doing at PAX, but I doubt it will be a Guild Wars 2 information day. "the fact that many games actually deliver a lot of information about their games before beta" - see point 1. If they want to give players a surprised and blown-away experience at release, it's unlikely that they'll release a huge amount of info before the beta. -- Brains12 \ talk 00:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

i agree with brains12 i couldn't have said it better my self.75.165.110.13 03:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Yay to more empty assumptions! "We've had no information for over a year and they don't seem to want to give us any in the meantime" - yet we just got a FAQ. "but it seems more likely that they'll release information in a magazine" - yet they have already done that (twice, hello?). "Not sure what they'll be doing at PAX, but I doubt it will be a Guild Wars 2 information day" - so you don't know what they will be doing, but for absolutely no reason at all, you decided to go against all logic and imagine that Arena Net won't be talking about the only thing they're currenty working at. Right. "If they want to give players a surprised and blown-away experience at release, it's unlikely that they'll release a huge amount of info before the beta" - oh, so now it's all or nothing, either "any" or "a huge amount of info". Right.

IMO, regardless of how frustrated you may feel, this page isn't the place to be rumor mongering without any resemblance of arguments about assumptions you have made up from thin air. Erasculio 04:23, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Erasculio, I believe most of the FAQ only relates to information we were given almost a year ago. The FAQ also isn't official. 000.00.00.00 07:02, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Zero (mind if I adress you in that way? It's a bit simpler than using your full username), I think we're talking about two different FAQs. This FAQ isn't official, it's just something the community made. But this FAQ is, indeed, official. Erasculio 12:02, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Zero or 000 is fine. Thanks for the official link, Erasculio, but oh my, it looks fancier but doesn't really say anything that the non-fancy player made one hasn't got. 000.00.00.00 21:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

So let’s reflect on that a little: ANet puts grind title after grind title in to GW. With NF even starts to link skills to titles that become more powerful the higher the title rank gets. They even expand on that with GWEN and put more titles, Zaishen being the last, in to the game. With GWEN they also started to make title rank a requirement to use merchants. Yet they have a “anti-grind design philosophy“ and try to slip out of the lie filled hole they just created by saying that they consider grind being linked to a high character level cap …. Aha so lets drop a high level cap… get massive GWEN style title grind (rank 25 for armour merchant…?) and we still wont have any forced grind in our game up holding the “anti-grind design philosophy”… yeah … right. Please explain to me: where is the difference if I need to level my character to get stronger, or level a title to get stronger? I see none at all. Split tongue speech par excellence! And besides that, I wonder how ANet is going to keep their players play a game for more then SIX MONTH (no beta this year) that has NOTHING new to offer PvE and PvP game wise, since there are NO plans to add any new expansion, quests, or FoW style update to GW1. In my opinion you’ll loos a hell of a lot of long time players within the next 6 month if you don’t add new playable, non grind (read title) related content! And this GW2 FAQ obviously was to serve one reason only: ppl where whining loudly that they wanted to get new GW2 information. So you cleverly assembled a FAQ list containing almost 12 month old information aka ... NOTHING new at all… and released it as GW2 FAQ! What a lousy move! Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 28th Jun 2008

You are new ? Yseron - 90.28.84.167 10:43, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

What will a designer who's assigned to GW1 full time be doing if absolutely nothing will be added? Fixing hiccups doesn't seem to warrant that. --24.179.151.252 10:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Regina gave the slightest wind of hope that there might be 7 heroes available in parties. At which point I will return to PvE. Vael Victus 16:08, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Its fully possible staff will be hired for caretaker positions whilst the rest of Arenanet tackle Guild Wars 2. This staff could primarily be maintaining the game; organising skill updates, fixing bugs, handling Guild Wars related areas such as the community. Implimenting approved changes to the game; not limited to just skills but also to such things as the Hall of Monuments, adding new content in sense of weapons crafters if such thing was warranted for places such as Hall of Monuments. Could also trial changes or test out improvements to Guild Wars. [Hoping for an attempt at a Minion/Spirit window for Minion Masters and Ritualists]

The Guild Wars~staff would also maintain the weekend events, special events as were normally held. There is much that is involved at the developers end that isn't related to adding tremendous amounts of new content. Upkeep can be a challenge unto itself, and if the number is small they could easily have their hands full. Also comes down to what they're hired for, their individual talents. If they're just coders/programmers I wouldn't imagine much new content being added beyond a few NPCs here and there. 000.00.00.00 11:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Plus, we already got some more content for GW: not only the Zaishen titles (which had out-of-game reasons for existing, so I don't really think it counts), but also the new ending for Prophecies and its new weapons. Given how the designer that will be responsible for GW1 is the same that made said ending, and who made the quest line about the Black Moa Chick, I would not be surprised if we get new content for GW1. Of course, if your entire definition of "new content" is a new chapter, you're likely going to be disappointed, but... Erasculio 12:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"yet we just got a FAQ" -- an FAQ comprised of information we already know, but in compacted form for those who don't read the wikis or magazines. Actually, they did give us one new thing. No beta this year.. hurrah! "yet they have already done that (twice, hello?)" ... is that supposed to be refuting my argument? Magazine information seems to be a trend. "but for absolutely no reason at all" -- uh no, I have provided reason; might want to read above. Also, considering the assumption that they'll release information in a magazine, it seems unlikely that they'll reveal the same/more information at PAX. "oh, so now it's all or nothing, either "any" or "a huge amount of info" -- again, that seems to be their current process. A huge amount of information last year, none since then. I'm not frustrated, simply disappointed. And no arguments for my assumptions? Right... which is why you just quoted a bunch of my reasons and arguments. Made up from thin air? No actually, I've based my arguments on previous ArenaNet actions, their trends, the amount (or lack) of information, and generally what makes sense. I've course, I do hope I'm proven wrong by ArenaNet. -- Brains12 \ talk 12:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it makes a lot of sense to have Arena Net at PAX in front of an empty stand : P I understand that you may be angry at Arena Net for moving the Beta past, but this is the worst page in the wiki to be posting baseless rants. As soon as someone begins the "I saw in Regina's page that we won't get any information about GW2 until at least the second half of 2009", the community will get the usual levels of e-drama up.

And really, all your arguments don't make sense. We just got a FAQ with information that wasn't available at the official site, and we know that a FAQ was wanted (given how the community here had already done one itself; Arena Net was kind enough to make an official one for us). The argument that Arena Net is going to wait for a magazine in order to release information about GW2 is also meanginless - they have already used a magazine to release information about GW2, twice even. Unless you really believe that Arena Net is only going to release GW2 information through magazines (going against what they have done for every single thing they have released), we will get more about GW2 from other sources - in fact, we just got more information from the official site. In the end, you have no basis, no arguments other than a "because I have said so" for many of your statements, such as...

• "along with the fact that we probably won't be hearing more until it's released"
• "it seems that Guild Wars 2 information will be coming along with it, and not before"
• "especially considering there won't even be a beta this year, and it will probably be in late 2009 at the very best"

As long as you want to rant emptily here, I'll just continue to point how you don't have any reasonable way to defend your claims. Erasculio 13:09, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Though I'm of course happy to hear anything GW2-related, I have to say that if the beta will be pushed back to such an extent you (meaning ArenaNet) really ought to keep up some work on GW1. Of course, you're not obligated to, but your players will be so much happier...! :) -- Sirius (talk) 13:25, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Erasculio, you seem to have ignored the reasoning behind my claims. I don't want this to delve deeper into a circular argument, so I'll refrain from further attempts to get you to understand those reasonings. Oh what the heck, one more thing; none of the information on the FAQ were new details (as I said, apart from the beta delay). -- Brains12 \ talk 16:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

There was no reasoning to be ignored, as I have said repeteadely, and demonstrated also repeteadely. There's no shame in making rants after being frustrated with something, this page just isn't the one in which to do so. We also got new information in the FAQ that was previously unknown, such as the "extensive instanced gameplay" (some players were guessing that only a very few high end areas - iow raids - would be instanced), the reply of how possible it would be to solo the game ("Yes. You will be able to advance your character to the maximum level without ever joining a group if you so desire"), and the following comment about how the difficulty of parts of the game will scale depending on party size ("Most content will be designed in a solo-friendly way, though often with mechanisms for scaling up in difficulty when more players are involved"). It was also good to read Arena Net reiterating the "anti-grind design philosophy", something that has often been discussed by the community. Erasculio 21:09, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Some of you seem to feel that ArenaNet is deliberately witholding information from you personally. Why is there not enough GW2 information? The game is in development. A lot of things could change from now until the beta. In fact, you all know that features for Nightfall were in development close to its release date. Things are subject to change, and game development studios don't want to relase information that could change down the road. The community would be let down and feel betrayed in that instance. It's happened to a lot of studios before. For everyone presumptuously speaking for the entire Guild Wars community, claiming that everyone knew all the information in the FAQ, that's not true. One of the reasons the FAQ exists in the first place is because players _don't_ know everything that's in there. They're Frequently Asked Questions, meaning we're getting asked these questions all the time. --Regina Buenaobra 16:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

A link to the FAQ on the Guild Wars 2 Wiki would have achieved the same purpose. -- Brains12 \ talk 16:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

A web page housing the FAQ is perceived as more official to those players who are not used to relying on information published in a wiki format. --Regina Buenaobra 16:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

You may want to improve the way Developer Updates are released if that's the case. -- Brains12 \ talk 16:51, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Awesome idea. What suggestions do you have? --Regina Buenaobra 16:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps release them the same way as your other press releases and bits of info are released? Basically use the same content as you would on the wiki, but modify the format so it stays consistent with the rest of the website articles, i.e. headers, paragraphical presentation, that sort of thing. -- Brains12 \ talk 16:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

So, similar in style and presentation as the Game Update notes, which are currently archived on the website? With an RSS feed to match? --Regina Buenaobra 17:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, although those nice new wiki links for those people that like looking for extra information on the wiki, and also to make for easier copy+paste, would be useful. -- Brains12 \ talk 17:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

IMO, it's also worth noting that the current wiki FAQ has been made by the community, and therefore it's prone to having mistakes, even if just thanks to a matter of interpretation. An official FAQ is far more reliable than something done by the community based on indirect and different sources, be it hosted in the official webpage or inside the wiki. Erasculio 21:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

This probably will get drowned in comments but *shrug*. Just wanted to say proper nouns need to be captialized on that FAQ (the Charr, not the charr). – Barinthus 19:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

one point i would like to make directly at regina is that i think people feel the way they do about information about guildwars2 because of the announcements of such games as starfcraft2 and diablo 3 and redalert3 there has been a wealth of information about those games and even hole sites dedicated to them and there info. especially with starcraft2 so far there was a lot of info released about units and game play that has changed dermaticly. and the wonder is why isn't there this openness with guild wars2? people know that things are going to change if you tell them that. also i think if you don't want to "disappoint people" you already have with the false announcement of the beta. take a chapter out of these other game company's that have for the most part done relay well. i haven't been disappointed with any of the info that had to be taken back. i was glad to see that they were giving us info. there is so much little stuff that you could give us like what your guys thoughts are on what the profession system for gw2 and lore in general. hec i think a lot of people would be happy to see a very basic screen shot. 75.165.110.13 20:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The amount of times you go down the road of "The community would be let down and feel betrayed" when referring to releasing information that is released and might be changed, it starting to get belittling. Its very simple to make a Developers Page for Guild Wars 2 where information can be released; information not giving away the 'good stuff' Arenanet would like to keep in the bag. And a very simple way of getting around possible upsets due to time changes would be a warning at the top of the page explaining the changeable nature and people should be aware of it. No matter what some people will always get their noses bent out of shape, with or without warnings, but the opportuntity to hook us deeper into Guild Wars 2 shouldn't be missed, or milked.

• Screenshots and concept art would be appreciated, seeing the style Arenanet is going for would also be nice.
• One thing I see missed in your FAQ is the 'professions', are thats a big factor people are itching to hear about. Guild Wars has ten established professions to play and hearing "Guild Wars 2 is a whole new game with different professions and races" can be quite disheartening some. Arenanet has quite an opportuntity to really milk the community's attention draw to the fact there is actually a lot of stuff that can be released that doesn't really give too much away.
• What part of the Guild Wars world the game will take place in Guild Wars 2; the The Movement of the World article it suggests quite an interesting world, where Guild Wars 2 is going to take place is a very big question my Guild and others I know of are big things were interested in knowing.
• I could go and last literally the dozens of questions I know I would like answers for and I know others would love to hear something on.

I lot of time has past since we were really given any sort of information, some little bits and pieces every now and then would be nice. I'm sure Arenanet wants to keep us hooked, no? 000.00.00.00 21:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I don't care if it's "subject to change" and may be a "potential letdown". Something. Anything. Please. When I first got GW, I thought it was a great game, and I've been playing for coming up on three years. Well, suddenly, there's nothing to look forward to, and I'm firing up the GW client less and less. My point is, when it comes to making games, Anet is excellent, but when it comes to maintaining a player base, well... there's a lot to be desired. A few months ago, with the first rush of info, I was glued to the screen ogling over it, saying "I'm definitely going to get GW2 the day it comes out". Now... I'm not so sure. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Calor 21:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

IMO, some players are already going to feel betrayed; even by simply saying nothing, Arena Net is not denying what often are unrealistic expectations that will lead to disappointment for some players, especially regarding the HoM (does anyone have any doubt that, no matter what the rewards will be, someone will be disapointed claiming that he/she grinded 20 hours per day for nothing?). Giving us some information would not hurt considerably more than the silence, and it would help a bit, even.

I'm not too worried, though, as I see the FAQ more as a way to increase the playerbase's awareness about GW2 than anything else. With PAX coming, confirmation that Arena Net will be there and the probability that we will get GW2 news in such event, I would expect more information soon anyway.

(As a sidenote: it does not bother me the least if people stop playing GW for now. The old idea that "out of sight, out of mind" is, IMO, underestimating players - I don't know a single person who re-reads a book every single day while waiting for its sequel, I can't remember anyone who watches a movie weekly while waiting for its continuation to be released. If GW is really trying to keep an "anti-grind design philosophy", it cannot be expected to keep players glued to their computers for months and months. Unlike, say, WoW, it's not a lifestyle, it's just a game.) Erasculio 22:17, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Silence can be more hurtful and deafening than a shout, just as emotional abuse can be more destructive than physical. There is always the notion of managing expectations but what do players really expect of Arenanet at the moment? Expectations are quite low for a lot of people it seems when it comes to Arenanet and Guild Wars/Guild Wars 2.

People are excepting a really vamped up Guild Wars 2, and the lack of information can be seen as Arenanet trying to keep all their cards up their sleeves - or also the managing of expection - which in itself generally isn't always a very good idea, there are always exceptions to this but if there are changes to what we know from Guild Wars, what we have spent - for a large number of us - 3 years immersed in it can be quite devastating on how people think of developers if we're only made aware of them at release, etc.

A major concern I share are the human professions, and their still up in the air at the moment. Yes, you're adding new races but what returns is a big factor personally; we have 10 professions at the moment and I really enjoy most of them, but if my personal favourite doesn't return its one of my make or break elements. Yes, you can manage expectation but can also throw us a bone here and there. Even if people aren't playing they're still watching, waiting for some news. Thats why they're fans.

The journey is also very nice, people like the behind the scenes stuff, its just like how people buy the collector's edition of a movie/game to watch all the behind the scenes, commentaries and deleted or uncompleted stuff. People not involved in such things, but with a passion for the end product can truly relate to that kind of thing.

There is much that can be done, I'm all for milking the time between now and release, I'm a fan, I'm always watching but nearly a year without anything really new? I mean, its a year, thats a lot of time and there's nothing to show for it? Yes, you're going to conventions but there's no word if anything will be there.

A developers diary would be awesome, you could even make it video, now that would be sweet. There is a lot that can be done this day in age. 000.00.00.00 23:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"find equipment" sounds great, as long as they still have the same armor system and any armor found is more or less worse than the armor u can buy. --Cursed Angel 02:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I think concept art would be the best thing Anet could release right now to stir/renew community interest in GW2. There must be dozens, if not hundreds, of pieces of concept art floating around for GW2 already; enough to post one per week until the release of GW2, perhaps? Most people in the community understand that concept art comes with no promises, thus the risk of the community feeling betrayed is at a minimum. A piece of art released once a week, maybe with a short blurb from the artist or a designer (spoiler-free, of course) would be wonderful. Can you suggest such a thing to your co-workers, Regina? -- MrSmiles 05:47, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It's been suggested many times by me and others in the company. I've been asking for it, but the people who make the calls on these decisons are very cautious about releasing any information. --Regina Buenaobra 19:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I asked two yes/no/idk questions and I get all this that doens't even remotely relate? What the heck guys? Anyway, I'm gunna ask them again and pray that they are actualy answered.

• Armor still has to be crafted and not found in GW2 right?

• Is there a CHANCE of New GW2 stuff being at PAX?

--Wolf 19:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I must apologise, Wolf, I unintentionally helped in a redirect, but I too would like to know what the 'find equipment' reference is for; armour in itself or just say similiar to what we have now referring to runes, insignias, off hands, shields and weapons.

They've already announced they're at PAX, and been asked if info in coming out, and said nothing. Its either safe to assume one of two things: Nothing will be shown or they won't say because they want it to be a surprise. 000.00.00.00 20:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Quite the contrary wolf why it went the way it did is because of the topic that you put your questions under. Also when you put something on the wiki its no longer yours its everyone's. i have noticed that happens a lot, for some of the stuff that you bring up. if you want things to stay on your topic make the header a bit more directed in what your talking about GW2 FAQs implys that you want to talk about the gw2 faq's that just came out and you kind of did. maybe a more apropet topic would have been '2 qustions that were not on the gw2 Faq's' also to answer your qustions 1. i dont know havent seen anything realy to suport eather way i think its like 000.000 said. also 2 yes there is a "chance" that anet will say something new at pax though the way they have been going with info and gw2 i also think no they will just be there at the ncsoft both talking about guildwars but will be lesser then the other games that ncsoft made. unlike last year. 75.165.110.13 04:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Regina, am sure you guys at ANet are aware of the latest Blizzard News: Diablo 3 is coming. The game is in development, even so far, that they don’t have any release date. Yet Blizzard took a step towards the public and announced the game! Despite being “work in progress”! There is an entire home page devoted to the news and information. There is a 20 minute game play video. There are screenshots and concept arts. Two of the five professions have already been revealed. And am damn sure that a lot will change from what we have seen now. Yet Blizzard published the information! We now have a glimps on the game and most really liked what they saw. Why cant Anet take a leap of faith in there player base and just trust us that we KNOW “this might not be like this in the final game” but we also know the direction things are taking! As of now ANet treats its players like little children that are too dump to understand what the grown ups are talking about! Be brave! Come out of hiding and sow the world what you’ve got! Because this utter silence and repeating of 12 month old information could very well be interpreted, that you have not advanced in developing the game at all and are still pushing concepts and ideas around the table! Regards ~Garbaron~; 30th Jun 2008

Diablo III also began to be developed years ago (at least 2005), and it has been through many overhalus ("'We probably did three rev[ision]s on the visual direction until we got to this and now we're really happy with it,' said Pardo", "The gameplay was also given several overhauls. 'We were pretty heavily influenced by some of the games that were coming out like God of War, a very visceral game,' said Pardo") until its developers settled down on the current incarnation of the game. In other words, are you willing to wait until 2010 to get information about GW2, given how Arena Net began working on it on 2007? No? So try to realize that comparing a game years in the making with a game in production for a single year is ridiculous. Erasculio 12:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm gunna start this of by saying, yes I know I'm getting off topic when I just scolded you guys for doing it, but there are larger issues at work here, and this thread keeps quickly getting off topic and I don't think I can keep bringing it back on topic much longer.

Regina, would it be an unfair assumption to make to say that GW2 has been in the works since around before Nightfall was released? Besides, you general don't announce a game just because you think you want to make it, you anounce it because it has become concrete and you what direction-ish its going and have some solid details ironed out and have SOMETHING. I've made several pushes for this and I think I'm gunna make one again. Arenanet, please, Take the leap of faith. The amount of people you would disapoint or bum out because something they liked changed is NOTHING compared to the amount of people (on the wiki alone) you may never see again as they are getting VERY pissed of at the lack of information. There was some small game a while back that I followed from announcement to release (forgot the name, was years ago). The devs gave out nothing gameplay related, only a few basic mechanics and fluff and stuff like we have now, except a bit less, but they gave us concept art, gobs and gobs and gobs of concept art, every week they would add about 20 peices of concept art to thier site. And ya know what? When the game did finally come out, I was totally blown away by it, and didn't expect ANY of what was in the game, but it was still reflected quite well in the concept art given to us. The Project Lead for the game said in an interview that they didn't realy hold back any concept art, they jujst published it out as it was made, the only peices they held back were a few things that were scrapped pretty much imediately. Seriously, Give us something. Yes, I understand you want players to be comepletely blown away qand suprised by GW2 when you finally get it out, but seriously, People need something, anything new, or they are going to be blown away in the sense that they probably won't come back. I understand the whole managing expectations and suprising us shtick, but look, you already gave us this, why not something more? I have said it once, and I will say it again, concept are is a great way to give us something, and at the same time say "this is not final" or show us something without realy telling us anything about the game, For example, there are going to be Dragons, why not a look at some of your ideas you had for then, And I know you have some or you wouldin't put 3 in EotN within full ans easy view and told us their names (Drakkar here, Grothmar here and Primordus who I can not find a picture of but IS there in VERY plain view in A Time for Heroes ). Heck I can find conept art on Utopia and that was cancled! Also, some random landscape screenshots would be nice. That also gives us something without actualy giving anything away, and the only way that can be remotely disapointing is if someone goes looking for it and doesnt find it. (Heck, I'm just the person to do that, and I wouldn't care if it wasn;t actauly in the game) Some more backsroy would even be nice. To recap a little, there are plenty of good wasys to give us something but not give anything about the game away, Like concept art, Landscape shots, and backstory, but goin Cold Turkey on us is not cool, and is getting a lot of people very angry. The community seems to expect a certain level of information flow about GW2, and part of managing expectations should be keeping that flow going that the players are expecting from you more than anything. You can't just stick a cork in the bottleneck and expect people to not get thirsty. Please, we are thirsty, give us something to drink. Please, we are hungry, give us something to eat. For I don't believe we can survive the fast much longer. --Wolf 14:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Remember that StarCraft 2 was announced years after its production began, and the same for Diablo 3. Both games (just like many other examples) were already developed enough, and "stable" enough, that their developers knew some core features would not be removed, and therefore those could be discussed with the community. The problem is that Arena Net is a small company - they don't have resources to work on Chapter 4 or expansion 2 or whatever while working on GW2, so they could not do the same thing Blizzard did (keep a project hidden for years) - they told us why they were to almost stop working on GW1. Letting players know so much about a game so early in said game's development is, IMO, the exception, not the rule; and while I would like to know more about GW2, I know (we all know) that a bunch of vocal players are going to whine against whatever it is Arena Net announces, and are likely going to whine if any of those announcements are changed later, no matter how many disclaimers Arena Net gives us (I could give you a list of those players, at least from GWO; they're the same who complain no matter what happens to GW1). Erasculio 17:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

If there is a group of people that whine about everything, and will no-matter what you do, why should thier whining matter? Besides, this group of people is FAR OUTNUMBERED by the amount of people that are completely and utterly put-off by the lack of GW2 info. All of my guild and its sister guild are all very frustrated with the lack of info flow, and so are all my GW playing friends. I think it would be a safe assumtion to make when I say that a VERY great part of the player base is atleast a disappointed by the lack of new info. Anet has put themselves between a rock and a hard place, with no non-damaging way out. At this point I see two choices for them, they can either give us something and risk disapointing people or continue to not tell us anything and alienate a very good chunk fo the player-base, and have them possibly not come back for GW2. Which is the lesser of the two evils Anet? A few disapointed players or a very large group of pissed off players? A disapointed player will generaly get over the disapointment shortly and be back to normal and not care too much aabout it. When you piss off players, you something akin to the ursan situation, something that WILL NOT get any better until you DO SOMETHING. People want solid proof that GW2 is actualy going to happen, and since you removed their hope of a beta this year, they are getting farther away and their loyalty is getting very stretched. If something doesn;t change soon, you WILL start to loose people, and you WILL start to get lots of angry people with nothing better to do then spout out flame and vent themselves in what ever way or on who-ever possible. You tell us over and over again that your hard at work on GW2, but your work isn't going to cut it much longer for a lot of these people. A friend of mine said this in response to me telling him about the beta being postponed (or would that be postpwned?) : "WTF? A beta isn't a show-off look how cool I am, it's a debug. Its not make sure your basic game mechanics are working and that people like the direction its going and to get feed-back. It is NOT a chance for you to say, hey check it out, this is the game your going to get, and not have a chance to change anything without serious delays." I think he just about hit the mark, I understand if the game in general needs more time, and enough wont be read to go to beta 2nd half 08, but pushing it back just for the sake of it and for the surprise has got to be the WORST move you could possible think of. This "We want the players to be surprised and blown away" BS is NOT going to cut it any more. People don't WANT to be blown away and surprised. People want safety and security and to know that a game they have invested so much time and interest is not going to end up being (God forbid) a totaly peice of trash. What you are doign with GW2 is something like this. Someone goes online to a site like [www.newegg.com newegg] and buys parts for a computer. Upon checking out and paying for their purchase, they get a message that says, "Well, this may be what YOU want, but we are going to have a whack this and send you want WE think you want and not tell you what it is untill it gets un your doorstep. Infact we aren't going to tell you when it's getting there at all, your just going to have to wait and find out. Oh, and one more thing, your not going to get to track the shipping info either, so you won;t knwo when it is finally on its way untill we thnk you should know." Thats not safety and security, thats like playing a game of Russian Roulette wiht yourself and hoping you pull the trigger on the empty chamber. This is the vibe I'm getting from Anet about GW2 and I AM NOT liking it. Anet, your holding a lit stick of Dynamite and time is running out. I trust you to do the right thing. --Wolf 18:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your friend, Beta Testing is for finding bugs and alikes. However, if the game is nowhere to finished, there's no point in having a Beta, IMO - the game would change so much that the bugs found now would become pointless, and new bugs would be created and require more testing later on.

As far as releasing information about GW2 goes, I'm not sure about the numbers - just like we could say it's a few vocal players who whine about everything (and said players will claim that all their friends agree with them), one could say that it's just a few vocal players who are complaining about the lack of info on GW2 (and that those players would of course be claiming that all their friends agree with them). I do believe that giving us more information now would be better (or rather, "less worse") than no information - but then again, I'm expecting to get more info about GW2 at PAX, and since that event is coming soon anyway...

(Does anyone remember when sequels took years to be released, like The Longest Journey and Dreamfall, or Wizardry 7 and Wizardry 8, yet people were less demanding about that sort of thing?) Erasculio 18:31, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I think Regina has already summed everything up with the generic 'managing expectations' line - which in itself isn't a bad thing - but also its Arenanet's game not the community's; we could sit here and state ideas and really interesting stuff we ourselves as a community can think up, and its a resource that could be tremendous for brainstorming which isn't really utilised at Arenanet end. But then again the community can state things which many could question why it wasn't implimented developer side but it still wouldn't matter to Arenanet. To be honest if they're having issues at their end now do you really think they reading what hundreds of others have to say, there are many posts, many sites with many people saying what they as an individual want, you'll have to forgive me if I can't see people such as Regina seeing it all bar more of the generic stuff, which doesn't necessarily mean the generic stuff is the more important.

I could go on all day about things that could be done by Arenanet, milking the community's desire for information but then again I can say that for most developers. I haven't really followed many games so its difficult to say but its the same for movies. Some companies release information at early stages some don't. Popular serieses or movies generally have information coming out every now and then, even if things changes. Sometimes movies have elemented changed based on fan response. Look at latest Transformer movie that was brought out, concept work of Megaton's face was released but the end product was changed because the community didn't relate or like what they saw.

Also, more of a personal note, find the terms 'crying' and 'whining' continuely used by the community for people wanting information or having very strong views on a subject starting to get a little old. People who want Shadow Form changed a whiners. People who want Ursan changed are either crying or whining or elistist [I myself have been called elistist but then never refused a person based on any title track and have only ever done UW or other places once]. People who want information on Guild Wars 2 are both as well. This is what I see happening when look at conversations on here in or Local in game. If you want information or have a view on something its considered whining and its getting quite old. 000.00.00.00 19:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

@Zero: There is a very good number of people who come here and are able to state their views and say what they want to say without reaching the whining point. The people I would lable as "whiners" and "complainers" just generaly seem to be the ones that are the loadest and most bend on making themselves heard, and so easily over power the other more respectful people that come here, say what they need to and are gone. It can get to the point that some don't even come back, Its for reasons like this that I stay out of Ursan Threads and will probably stay out of any SF or skill balanced related threqad now.

@Erasculio: Testing game mechanics is not about finding bugs, its about making sure they work the way you want them too, and when players play the game, they don't see these mechanics in a differen't ligh and use them in an entirely different way and break something. If the GW2 beta ended up as stick figures and everything was a smple untexted mesh, I would still be pretty jazzed, as I would get to try out the GW2 mechanics and such. Mechanics make a game, graphics don't. WoW, D2, and Star Craft have to have someof the worst graphics for a non-browser based game still played today. If there graphics are so bad and outdated then how can people stand to play them still? Mechanics. It's just so much dang fun to play the game that it's easy to look over the lack of graphical quality. I play Crysis on a not so impressive system with everything but the Physics on low, and ya know what? I may not look very good, but It's still so much fun to play that it's easy for me to look past that.

There are 3 things I look for in pre-release content for a game they are:

1: Demonstration (and/or explenation) of basic game mechanics, preferably detailed.

2: Back-story, fluff, something that lets me in on the game's world

3: Gaphical demonstarion. Usualy screnshots or gameplay footage which would tie #1 & #3 togther.

optional: (but prefered) A list of some key features of the game (usualy tied in with #1

A game that lacks in one or more of those 3 areas usualy does not hold my attention and I probably would not buy it. If I had not played GW1, off of what has been Given to us on GW2, Its safe to say that It would not capture my interest at all and I probably would not think to buy it. D3 was just anounced, and they have already met all 3 conditions and a but of the optional. Yes I know it has been in the works for a while. On GW2, we have been given a good part of 2, almost enough to be satisfying, and a very small amount of the optional, but hey, its optional for a reason, features also don;t make a game, but they help. Those 3 listed above are something you can expect from just about every game, and something I have gotten from pretty much every game I have looked into whether it interested me or not. Those 3 things (specifical #1 and #3 at this point) are what I will be looking for. Also, I think It's a bad move to hold the Beta back until GW2 release is in sight. When its ready to beta, put it into beta and get it out there. If people don't like what they see, then its not going to matter how long after it GW2 comes out. If the beta is a success and people love it, then as long as GW2 isnt much more than a year away, you will pretty much have their interest and their devotion. Back before LotR online came out, I got in on a very early closed beta, I played it, and didn;t like much what I saw, played the open Beta, definately didn't like it, and never put another thought to the game again. When GW1 went into beta, I knew nothing about the game except I had the beta and I was playing it. From what I saw, I absolutely loved the game, and with nothing but the beta under my belt, was so jazzed about the game for the 6 months before it came out, that I nearly shot someone when my CPU died a few days before it came out, and nearly shot someone again when i learned it was going to be a few months before I could aford a replacement. The beta is going to be your focal point. You need something to capture and hold everyone's interest and soon. I know I can wait for PAX and if you have something new on GW2, it will hold me over to the beta if it isnt too far away, but I don't think some people here can wait that long. Right now we are stuck in the dark with no hope and no way of finding our way out and some are on the edge of insanity. Please, Arenanet, put a light at the end of the tunnel for us. For a light, no matter how dim, gives hope and will guide the lost and the hopless home. Lead Us Home. --Wolf 19:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that testing mechanics now, when those mechanics may be completely changed, would be a waste. To give one more example: when WarCraft 3 was being created, Blizzard announced that the Undead faction would not harvest gold, rather it would only use bodies as resources, and they would have no buildings other than the center of their base, rather relying on upgrades that would change the environment around said base. Eventually both these aspects were completely removed from the game (after which some complaining issued), and so a Beta Test aiming at finding bugs in those mechanics would have been for nothing.

In other words, I think it's too soon for a Beta Test now. IMO, Arena Net should give us information about Guild Wars 2 without a Beta; and since we're likely going to get more information in two months, it's good enough for me. Erasculio 21:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Some Info should come soon, quite soon. As for the Beta, It should be when they have the mechanics fairly Ironed out, not before, not after. GW1 when into beta 6 months before the game came out, and nothing major in mechanics changed between then. Also, betas serve to find those mechanics which sound cool and fun, but just don't quite work how the devs want them too. However, Anet stated that the GW2 beta would come much closer to the release than GW1 beta did. Im thinking thats a month or two before release, and that is just too late. A beta is the best weapon in your arsenal as a game dev, and something you don't want to hold back once it is ready. If you fear loosing people because they don't like the beta, well that sucks, your going to loose them no matter how close the beta is to release. A beta is easily the BEST way to cement people's interest in a game and enable them to stand the long haul for the game getting finished as they have played the game and know that yes, it is awsome. If I had onyl read everythign there was out on GW1 and not played the beta, I would have passed it by, in fact, I almost did. A friend of ine asked me if I wanted to play GW, I read on it, and said nah, I dont think so. He then said, well, the beta starts in a few days, atleast give that a try, so I did and was hooked. A beta is a tool for both holding on to current players, and gathering new ones. While I can see the benifits of waiting untill you can put lots of content into the beta, and excite new comers, int he time that would take, you will have already lost your current players.

3 Steps I would like to see taken twards the GW2 release:

1: Some concept art and maybe more story soon, like before July is out

2: A short demo of the current state of GW2 mechanics at PAX

3: Beta around mid-late of the first half of 2009

?: Release before 2011......

--Wolf 21:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

So, do we know what professions/classes are in Guild Wars 2 yet? 000.00.00.00 07:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

all we really know about gw2 is that you will be able to play as Asura, Charr, Human, Norn, and Sylvari gaile said on the guildwars2 talk page "We don't have any information to share about Guild Wars 2's professions. They will not be the professions of Guild Wars, it's true, but beyond that, their types or numbers or other details are not being discussed" we also know that cantha fallows the history of the real china and closes up shop to foreigners and elona gets wtfpwend by the undead king Palawa Joko, and that there are dragons. and orr has risen from the sea and that you will be able to play pvp right out of the box. oh and that you will be able to run and jump and swim. and that the kruzicks and luxons are no more. and the all of that happens in about 200 years...75.165.110.13 09:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the first Beta began on the E3 for Everyone event in April 2004, when players were allowed to play the game both in E3 and at home. The World Preview Event was the next open beta event, but I don't think it was the beginning of testing. Under those circunstances, I'm not surprised that GW2's beta won't begin one year before the release of the game.

IMO, "losing" current players is hardly a concern. Like I said somewhere else, I don't know anyone who reads a book every day while waiting for its sequel to arrive, or who watches a movie every week while waiting for its continuation. If people choose to wait for GW2 while not playing GW1, I'm perfectly fine with that - it's not like we're paying a monthly fee, and less players in GW1 means less money for Arena Net. I would actually hope players stop playing after they have done everything they wanted in the game - the only thing that could keep people busy for so long with minimal effort by Arena Net is grind, and we already got more than enough of that in GW1. Erasculio 11:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me to say so Erasculio, but all you said just confirms what I said earlier: ANet seems to be withholding information on GW2 because of a single reason: it’s NO WHERE NEAR as complete as they thought they would be at this time in 2008! Taking the just released FAQ GW2 appears to still be in an early planning stage! They still have not settled on a high or none level cap for player characters. This in turn means players skill power is completely undefined since noone know what max power is going to be. This in turn means no monster groups can be devised since it not known how strong the player will be. This in turn means quest and missions can not be devised except for main story concepts. Maybe all ANet is doing right now and ever since the first bits of GW2 information was released, is testing their net code to see if the changed engine for a “persistent yet heavily instanced” GW2 world can stream to a host as smoothly as GW1 can do right now. Perhaps level designer have just started putting things together. Maby Izzy just finalized his first ideas of the GW2 skill sets? To me the FAQ shows us that ANet has NOT moved forward with GW2 in nearly 12 Month! GW2 is still at the very same status it had when the PCGamer article was released! THAT’S my impression I get form the FAQ! And even if only a part of what I said is true ANet lied to its community and GW2 won’t see the day of light any time soon! If I am wrong the ANet is behaving rather stupid! If the decision on a high level cap or none has been made… why not tell us? If the decisions on the professions have been made…why not tell us? Will we be required to climb title ranks to be allowed to talk to merchants like in GWEN? If so why not tell us? Noone expects ANet to tell us the whole story GW2 is telling. But telling us bits and pieces on core concepts that SHOULD already be there must be possible. IF ANet has hit its GW2 milestones as planned there should be TONS of information ANet could share with his customers! Withholding those information’s, as Wolf pointed out, is starting to seriously damage their reputation and player confidence is falling to abysmal levels! Its close to high noone for ANet to react and release new information as well as take action to provide players with new GW1 content other wise a large number of players is going to leave, since the guild/alliance situation Wolf described is happening all over the place!! Regards ~Garbaron~ ;1th July 2008

In other words, the game is in early development, and since it's likely going through many changes, Arena Net does not want to give us specifics about the game yet. That's the same thing that happened to Diablo 3, the same thing that happened with StarCraft 2, and the same thing that happens to plenty of games, especially this early in game development (slightly more than one year). I don't see the reason for surprise much less anguish there. If anything, Arena Net is being far more open to the community than Blizzard - despite how players had been asking for Diablo 3 and StarCraft 2 over and over, Blizzard chose to keep the production of both games as a secret for years. Arena Net, in other hand, told us about GW2 as soon as they began working on it. Erasculio 11:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

They had to though because ANet promised us a service when we bought into Guild Wars. They promised an addition every 6 months, which still I would gladly pay for. This is dissimilar to Blizzard because the only service Blizzard promised for D2 and SC was existing BattleNet... not new content every so often. This is also why ANet needs to be more open about things... the promised service of continuously new content is near desert dry (yes, I am sure Linsey has some awesome stuff in the pipeline, which she can't talk about), whereas before we had something to look forward to short-term. --Ravious 11:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be the other way around? If players are taking Arena Net's original proposition of releasing new chapters every 6 months as a literal promise (regardless of how impossible that would be - sooner or later they would have to stop making GW1), and thus their expectations were frustrated, wouldn't it be wiser to, as far as "managing expectations" go, say as little as possible in order to avoid further frustrating the players? IMO, that's exactly the kind of argument why Arena Net is not saying anything now - players claiming that Arena Net "promised" something they mentioned as part of their plans some time ago. Erasculio 11:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

You probably are correct. ANet is taking time to re-invent themselves, their service, and how they deal with customers. This is a good thing, but things are going to hit static as they change...and it is hard to change... for all parties involved, methinks. --Ravious 12:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Note to All: People have been Demanding SC2 and D3 from Bliazzard for almost TEN YEARS! Also, on the high/no level cap. I believe they have settled on a 100/or no cap. No Cap meaning once you hit a certain level (like lvl 100) at which would stop getting more powerful (gaining health, atts ect.) but you could keep leveling by collection XP. It would be like in GW when you gain a skill point after your lvl 20, except you would be lvl 21, 22, ect but only as strong as a 20. Besides, knowing the level cap means nothing if oyu don't know how powerful that level is going to be, or don't have a power standard. You can set the standards for about how powerfull a max lvl char is going to be without deciding on lvl. I thing re need s sitrep from Anet on some things, Time for me to formulate a list fo questions. --Wolf 13:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Diablo III has been in development for at least three years. The same cannot be said for GW2. Guild Wars 2 has not been in development since "before Nightfall was released". Development started some time after Nightfall's release.

One of the things someone said is that we should never have announced GW2 so early in its development cycle. What would you have done if, after GW:EN, you realized ArenaNet was no longer releasing substantial game content, but we didn't explain why?

To address the question of what betas are for. Remember back to when GW1 was in beta. Now compare how beta events today take place in comparison to what the online gaming scene was like back then. Look at the beta events for Lord of the Rings Online, Hellgate: London, Tabula Rasa, and Age of Conan. If you played in those betas, didn't your experience help form your opinion of the game? Even if you knew you were in a beta and the game was subject to a lot of flaws or bugs, didn't your experience during the beta help inform your decision on whether to purchase/subcribe or not? They sure did with me (except Age of Conan which I did not participate in and have no desire to play). The MMO game market is very different to what it was like when GW1 was in beta. With that in mind, we stand by our decision to wait until further along in the development cycle to have a beta. --Regina Buenaobra 19:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

We need something to look forward to and keep us playing, "wait and see" doesnt cut it. With the Diablo 3 announcement we were not only given detail about the story and an faq, but also shown gameplay footage. We all know that footage is just a taste of things to come, theres still plenty of development time, things are changed and improved. It was only a small part of the whole, a few classes but it was still something to get the buzz going and people interested in the game again and looking forward to future news. In contrast, we havent even had 1 screenshot from GW2 over a year since announcement. We know theres not going to be any more expansions for GW1, its done, we know it, but for heavens sake at least show us something about the new game. --92.235.8.13 20:19, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Question: how much of Diablo 3 had you seen two years ago? (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not entirely fair to compare a game that's being released by Blizzard to one by ArenaNet in several ways. Firstly their business models are different. Blizzard's games like Diablo or Warcraft are basically fire and forget, there's little in the way of significant, free additons to these games after release. Major content additions are via expasions players pay for. WoW is a subscription based MMO, where individuals continue to pay after purchasing the games. ANet, on the other hand has in GW, a trilogy of interlinked games that has continued to be altered and added on to with content and drastic changes since it's release of GW: Prophecies. Most of ANets income has been from the sales of games, until the recent addition of online merchandise like the skill packs and extra character slots. Secondly, Blizzard has a reputation and long established place in the computer game industry, most of the people who play computers games at least know who Blizzard is. Blizzard also has a large, devoted, possible obsessive fan base. ANet has developed a fan base, but lacks anything near the size and scope of what Blizzard has. This all contributes to ANet being very sensitive, in my opinion, to possible buyer's perceptions of the games they make. If they open a beta, they need to have players be impressed/enjoy/etc the beta to want to go and buy GW2. That's what most Beta have become - free trials to lure new people into buying and playing. I agree that some new information or art or something would be nice, I just don't need to get constant updates to be interested in a game. 75.146.48.190 20:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Plus, adding a bit to what the anon above said, Blizzard is big enough in order to be able to manage producing some games while keeping some and releasing others, which allows them to keep a project hidden until it's almost finished and only announce it after years of development, when there's plenty of information to share with the public (again, see Diablo 3 and StarCraft 2). Arena Net does not have enough staff to do that - they simply couldn't keep releasing new GW1 stuff and work on GW2 at the same time. Hence, like Regina said, they had to stop releasing new GW1 chapters, and so they decided to let we know why - GW2. Erasculio 21:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Regina, here is what should have happen, gwen should have been released as an expansion for all of the campaigns, and what i mean buy that is there still should have been the stuff that happened in gwen now but there should also have been little mini expansion for what happens in cantha and elona may be it should have been secpret stuff and had gwen be sold at like $15, and then have each little expansion be sold like wise. there is a lot of stuff that you guys could have made into little expansions to really make the game ready for guild wars2 and you did kind of do that with the bmp and gwen but both were way to short. not all of the new races had to be from Tyria. and then wile you were making this stuff in the background you could have been making guildwars2 and then just gone quite for a wile, until you had enough of a base for guildwars2 that you could realse things like screen shots and game play video. the other way you could have gone is made gwen a chapter that incorporates everything that i just talked about and just led us to believe that another chapter was on the way. because lets face it gwen was a little rushed. this is evident in a lot of things like armor, and story line.75.165.110.13 21:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

@ IP, BS, What should have happened? Forget that, It already has, your words fall on deaf ears.

@Regina: Sorry, I had a lapse in my mental GW timeline, and It's been quite a long time since I read the PCGamer articles on GW2. I knew GW2 when into developement someth=ime around NF's release, just wasn;t sure when. Also, I understand if the game is not in the shape you want it to be by the time to wanted to release the beta, so you delay it, thats cool. Just don't hold the beta back any longer than you have to. Yes, I played the Beta's for LotR Online, a bit of Tebula Rasa and Hellgate, (I also choose not to take part in the Conan Beta for my own reasons) and the GW1 Beta seemed a lot less developed, but was the most outstanding and well executed beta I have ever done. All you need is something play-able that you can hand to the players. Heck, look at the Halo 3 Beta, they had the player model, weapons, mechanics and one map done. All you need from a beta is a sense of how the game plays and looks. When I played a WoW trial (yes I know, and I regret it to this day), No amount of things you could do, or cool armor could persuade me to continue to play, as I could just nto stand how the game played and looked. Heck, look at the factions beta, each profession has one set of armor done, a few faces, and a small collection of skills, and a few areas ready, plus a revision of alliance battles. Not much is needed. All you realy need to be able to get out of a beta is how the game looks and plays, mainly how it plays, I can over look some graphical short-commings even in a final release. To put it simply, when GW2 is ready for beta, by God, get it out the door, don't hold it back any long then you have to. --Wolf 21:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

@wolf its called learning from your mistakes.75.165.110.13

I actually played in one of the Guild Wars Betaas, and I didn't really care for it much. Sure, I kick my self for that now, but at the time I was more interested in City of Heroes, and the beta did nothing to change that. So it's not true that just having something now is better than nothing now. I've played in betas from several of the now older MMOs, and my opinions formed during them made a lot of difference. And in regards to the Factions and Nightfall previews, they weren't trying to create an entirely different game, they were using an existing engine, and adding improvements. Yukiko 02:53, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to Shadow Form

These are the sort of balance changes I like to see; not simple nerfs, but well thought-out and comprehensive alterations that address the problem. This demonstrates Anet's commitment to supporting smart gameplay. Please let the relevant parties over there know that at least one player is thrilled with the upcoming change, and I hope it sets a new standard for all skill-related changes to come. -- MrSmiles 21:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Make that 2 players. Changing the creatures instead of the skill was a smart move. --Xeeron 22:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks on that as well. I farmed the area many times, but even so, I did not like how easy it was. Thanks for making it more difficult to get my stuff ^.^. yes, that was completely serious. :D -- Wandering Traveler 22:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Add one more to that list =D I'm with these guys. --Wolf 22:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

They did change the skill and not just the creatures in UW. It was an overkill of SF. Plain and simple. had no problems with the additions in UW, but I do have problems with the overkill of SF. BTW next time Anet should start using Vasiline on some of there changes.

Err, no matter that I whined all over gw as many of other people and gww, no matter how sick it felt after this nerf was done leaving Ursan as it is I still do like the whole method of this change nbeing implemented, dont just nerf a skill, change the whole game as you have preciously done with arrival of queen of scarabs, e.g. adapt all the areas. Infact such method could be used to nerf Ursan. --Super IgorImage:User Super Igor sig2.jpg 23:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Fifthed or sixthed or seventhed here. Calor 00:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

The update/nerf/additional content was okay, but why did you add that favor. I know its stuff that went missing way back in the day but the game is missing something by always having favor. We'd gotten used to the idea that the 30k minutes was gone for good, nobody would have missed it. Sadie2k 00:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

The loss of favor was unintentional. It's what players are owed and what should not have been lost in the first place. We had a discussion today and thought that since favor was running a little low, it would be a good time to restore what you had lost.--Regina Buenaobra 00:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Is that relating to the Sunspear/Lightbringer weekend where we went over the ceiling of the favor system? 000.00.00.00 01:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

"it would be a good time to restore what you had lost", sorry, but 75% of time in last 11 months we had favor, isnt it enough? it would be even more, if no reducing it and now u adding additional 2 months of free favor. sorry for word, but thats stupiud. Ocravia Deathblade 08:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

That's it!!! I have had it with this! I can't farm bosses and the Uw with this nerf! Regina, if you are going to listen. And I specifically warned you that I WILL protest against the nerf (Did you even bother reading the letter?). I'm going to start a RIOT against this nerf!! Everyone come to Temple of Ages and riot with me against the nerf of the Underworld and Shadow Form. Who's with me? (GW name:Ninja Hiro Kitano)--Dark Paladin X 00:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

As much as I think you're trolling if you actually wanted to do something to get Arenanet to pay real attention getting people to actually stop playing, in large numbers, would be more constructive. Rioting you are still in the game and subject to their banning rules. You could also go to Temple of Ages but you'll quickly realise the community adapts to any new changes and will find a newer productive way of farming that will adapt to the changes. 000.00.00.00 00:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Not me. I'm pleased by this update, because it still allows me to farm all these areas solo with relative ease, but few others can. Calor 01:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

SF and Ursan are two completely different things. One was an overly effective solo farming build, and the other is one part of an efficient team build that requires human players to co-operate to succeed. If your main concern is finding a PuG in a high end area that doesn't want a specific build, then your solution doesn't solve anything. The next most efficient build will just take its place. If your main concern is that Ursan stagnates creative build making, then a duration nerf might be justified, so that Ursan becomes just one part of a player's skill bar, instead of the focus.--Skye Marin 02:04, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursan and SF are similar in the way that they're both considerably better options than their alternatives, in other words they're both overpowered. That's enough reason to nerf them to the point where there are at least a few alternative builds that can compete with them. --Draikin 06:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they're better options than their alternatives but Skye is very much so correct that Ursan is the greater evil here. If you want to do a high-end mission or area and don't have EoTN, you're screwed basically. While if you want to farm and don't have SF, there are alteratives that can get results. Nevertheless, props to Anet for changes regarding SF. – Barinthus 07:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

/don't care. for the most part me and my guild run killdoser and tarchage though everything so these nerfs and non nerfs dont effect me at all. i will how ever say that who cares about the economy if your smart you can get a lot of money with out farming. i think i have "farmed" maybe 3-4 times ever in my gws gaming life. but after about 200k+ there really isnt anything to spend your money on besides armor and titles most of which i already have.75.165.110.13 08:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

SF allowed sins to farm at a much faster rate than any other profession, and it could be used in a much wider range of locations too. It was nerfed so that it could farm at the same rate. Ursan allows players of any profession to get into groups and get elite things done. It's a necessary evil in the sense that it goes a long way to remove discrimination against given professions. Better solutions would be good, but until then, Ursan has some positive outcomes. -- Alaris 13:53, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Only problem with Ursan is it's just a wee bit too powerful. Its kinda like SF in that it gets things done insanely fast. Sf was not a hard solo to run and niether is Ursan. Both of which I was sure were in for a tone down. SF just went first as it has been a problem longer and is doing much more direct dmg to the economy (ecto prices anyone?) SF still works, its now just as viable as any other solo out there. Heck most of the good ones arent even solos. (600/Smite/Famine FTW!) Ursan needs kinda the same thing, it needs to be just as viable as any other option, and after their hit on SF, I'm confident Anet will find that middle gorund. Anyway, this isn;t an Ursan thread, so back on topic. The SF change was much needed, and I'm confident that the economy will start to recover soon. Thanks Anet for a good balance, and keep up the good work. --Wolf 14:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

@Alaris, what profs are disriminated against?--Sum Mesmer Guy contribs 15:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, judging from forums, people complain that it's *much* harder to get into PvE PUG groups as a mesmer or assassin. Before Ursan, also, it was apparently very difficult to get into a group if you were not using one of the standard builds needed (e.g. barrage pet team in tombs, waaay back when). I don't speak out of personal experience TBH, as I'm part of a Guild where such discriminations don't occur (we work with what we have). -- Alaris 15:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

that's odd, cos i've never had a problem with PuGs--Sum Mesmer Guy contribs 15:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

O rly? Good for you. But is your experience representative of the masses? -- Alaris 15:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

From my expirences with the masses, everyone expirences things differently. o.O Chew on that for a bit. Did you brain just flip over inside your head there? Mine almost did. --Wolf 16:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

This discussion about Shadow Form has derailed into a discussion about Ursan Blessing, so I'm closing it. --Regina Buenaobra 16:33, 3 July 2008 (UT

What is going to happen to those who don't have FoW armour after GW 2 is released

I would like to know what is going to happen to those who don't have FoW armour afer GW2 is released?This is so they can get a set put in thier Hall of Monuments as an achievment.I would like to know what is going to happen to the UW and FoW after GW2 is released as there won't be to much life there.I have suggestion and that is to turn into like The Catacombs is like in presearing making it free accessible and having res shrines in them this is so those that are still playing in GW1 can have fun place to go similar to Surrows Furnace.It would be nice to see something like added after GW 2 is out.This may help others get thier sets of FoW for thier HoM which maybe an unresolved goal.I am hoping that the elite areas can become fun areas and to explore these ereas.I hope something is done so that others may optain thier FoW who aren't hard core farmers and may not buy GW2 untill this goal is met after all the support they gave you in playing the game by your own rules.

You will be able to update your achievements in Guild Wars 2, so if you haven't finished everything you wanted to finish in GW1 when GW2 is released, you shouldn't worry. --Regina Buenaobra 00:13, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

If thats the case, then that would make the rewards completly useless as then people can just go back and get the certin special rewards. Dominator Matrix 00:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

To whom would it make the achievements "useless"? --Regina Buenaobra 00:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

To the people who worked for them. Before GW2 realise. Though denying this would be unfair to those who want something -- or new comers. Dominator Matrix 00:41, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Only for the easy achievements, it is not like someone could go, "oh the reward for legendary vanquisher is awesome, I am just going to pop back to GW1 and snap that title up". --Lemming 00:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Its not impossible, and not highly unlikely. Dominator Matrix 00:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Allowing players the freedom to complete GW1 achievements and update them in GW2 is "useless" to other, completely different players, who have already completed these achievements before Guild Wars 2? How does giving players the flexibility to update achivements in GW2 have any impact on the achievements of those who have already earned them? Giving other players this option takes nothing away from the people who have already completed titles. --Regina Buenaobra 01:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Lets say the end reward is a certin amour. A lot of people like that amour, people will go back to GW1, max the required title, and make that amour common enough to make that amour no longer special. Dominator Matrix 01:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Uh, alright? So there's a really good title, and people spend time on GW1 to farm for it. Or you know they could alternatively just play GW2 and get better armor anyway. This is ANet we're talking about, Mr. Matrix, do you really think they're going to give us physical (in-game) items that actually do something? I'm expecting to carry all my minipets around, and wear my useless hat I got for beating all the campaigns. I'd be very surprised if there was a reward that actually rewarded us, before people start baaaaaawwing about inbalance and "fairness". Vael Victus 13:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Beat me to it Dominator. Guess great minds think alike. The main concern is the unknown nature of the rewards. Players previously felt that there would only be so many "awesome" rewards and that it was a shot in the dark which achievements would unlock them. A frenzy to fill out their halls ensued. Now that this has come to light, some feel like their hard work to get that 'special' reward has gone to waste because anyone can aim for the 'one reward' and make the players who already have it feel less "I'm the only one in the game with this..."ness. On the bright side, the hom fillers shouldn't need to return to GW1 and have a head start on getting the next uber-rare shiny thing. 76.120.124.95 01:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Er, didn't this come to light, like, months ago? O_o. --Star Weaver 01:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the fact that you would be able to go back and add to a HoM was stated probably a few months after HoM was added. Yukiko 02:38, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The overall game is game aimed towards being friendly to casual play. If you're looking to be the player who has something few if any other players can get, chances are you're playing the wrong game. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 07:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Aiiane Win. Can we make this really large and put it on the front page and the top of all the important talk pages? ^_^ --Star Weaver 16:37, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I for one am glad HoM rewards will be still attainable after GW2 release because it means GW will continue to be in play and will be continued to be supported by Anet. – Barinthus 07:37, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

There's still many open questions relating to the Hall of Monuments and any Guild Wars 2 related rewards. I'm still wondering what a 'completed monument' actually is, and for example, with the Resilence monument will different armour sets give different rewards, or it is just based on 'a displayable set is a displayable set'? Also will people with 5 armour sets in the monument for a single character, or as an account get a lesser reward for Guild Wars 2 vs someone who has 10 sets of armour for that profession, or all the armour sets avaliable to that profession? Many questions, very few answers. 000.00.00.00 08:02, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm personally all for the HoM being updatable after GW2 release / after you get your GW2 account. Exclusive armour sets were never all that big in GW (just think of how many people have FoW nowadays, I myself am saving up for my 4th set), so it never was that special. It might have been if you were one of the first to get it, way back in the day, but that special meaning isn't gone just because people ended up acquiring some themselves. Kudos to them, if you ask me. The same goes for Legendary Vanquisher. I finished one, I'm well on my way to a second. I really don't care if someone gets the reward for that title after GW2 release. It's still a lot of time and effort into the title to obtain it (maybe a little less now because of Ursan, but they're no lamer after GW2 release than they are now), and I see no reason why someone who finishes it later than me should be left out just because they finished later. Some people have busy lives, you know? I work, I go to Uni, and- gaspohnoes- I have a social life as well. Needless to say I can't play 8 hours a day to be the first to max all my titles. It's a shame it takes me longer than others, but I'm just happy that I can finish, say, my Kurzick title, even after GW2 comes out. If in the end I spend the same amount of time and effort (or, in some cases, horrible grind) on a title, I think I deserve it just as much as someone who just happened to max the title two months before me. -- Elv 08:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

What, people are complaining that they are allowed to do accomplishment later and not now? What's wrong with you people? -- (gem / talk) 11:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you think that people can now do nothing and just hoard money, and do the things that would provide them stuff after they know which things will. But that makes not much sense. Because if you thinjgs later, you'll take more time to get the stuff, while people that makes things NOW will get the benefits instantly after linking the character. MithTalk 13:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Its true, I mean even if ppve is easy and things it would still take those players some time to get the stuff they didnt wile players who did it already can instantly progress thru gw2, invent stuffs, find stuff out and get famous and things. --Super