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Dervishes

I wonder if dervishes would have a viable role in PvP as either:

• A source of melee AoE damage, with weaker damage to a single target than they have today - goodbye insane criticals with scythes, for example - but being able to hit multiple targets hard enough to be signicant. It would reward good positioning of the dervish and punish players who just make big balls, but some PvP maps would have to be fixed for this to work (many HA maps would need a bigger size, for example).
• A source of single target damage (bye AoE) with zero utility but strong self counters to the usual melee counters, with things like Irresistible Sweep and Hexbreaker. They would have DPS high enough to be able to finish a target, but not enough to kill something with only c-space; ideally, a dervish would only assit a warrior after the target had been crippled and deep wounded and then proted. I think this is the role dervishes were originally meant to have (if you look at the avatars, each was meant to counter a counter against warriors: Balthazar against kitting, Grenth against enchantments that cause block, Melandru against blind and cripple, Dwayna against melee-hating hexes and Lyssa against the target using skills on itself), but it's something extremely hard to balance (the potential for Build Wars and mindless c-spam playing is huge) and currently just badly done (all that with the impossibly high damage of scythes and AoE wasn't a good idea).

Erasculio 19:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I think scythes need to not do AoE. I also think melee without utility is a bad idea and forms that basically make you immune to <insert a form of melee hate here> are bad because they don't require a whole lot of skill - especially when Melandru makes Balthazar unnecessary, Lyssa's idea is flawed due to enemy characters not always having a way to defend themselves and monks being able to defend people other than themselves, and Dwayna is Build Wars-only - but I honestly don't know what to do otherwise. Just making Dervishes a Warrior copy with a bunch of enchantments they'll never use isn't acceptable either. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 02:00, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

How about turning the forms into things more like Frenzy: each being able to be turned on and off, each giving a way to partially counter a melee counter, and each with a drawback that any opposing team could exploit regardless of what build they're using. Like shorter conditions duration with Melandru but reduced movement speed (like Muddy Terrain), or faster attack speed with Lyssa but taking damage every time an attack hits, and so on. Erasculio 02:27, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I think Dervishes would largely benefit from many of their cast-time buffs being turned into instant-cast skills (perhaps of a new skill type - blessing? - with a limit of one on you at any given point in time). Or perhaps if they were just stances instead. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 03:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Then you'd have to improve options for stance removal, wouldn't you? "My stance is Ebon Dust Aura!" >_< Vili 点 03:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

EDA is liable to diaf, tbh. But yeah, I would, and I'm not sure that's something I want to do (I approve of stance monks). -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 03:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Make scythes do half damage when they strike two targets, one thirds if they strike two. Problem Solved. Hell it might make for some interesting balling tactics. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:58, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be huge nerf dervs would have to avoid ppl close to eachother cause otherwise theyr dmg would suck dervs arent too great in GW jobs like sins,rangers,wars can almost use better their skills than derv . I think mysticism should get better effect than what is it now . 89.166.101.7 19:14, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

...They would get the same damage output. It'd just be spread across multiple targets. And yes, primary attributes need a rework. This is mostly why I'm delaying on the ranger article (although CGI script labs are another reason). -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 20:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeh but if the dmg is spread it is way more easier to heal cause it would be LOT less to single target. if i would have to choose between only single target and dmg spread i would choose only single target. 89.166.101.7 20:37, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, perhaps you should go warrior then. I'm not saying I'll do what Nuke suggests, but dervishes taking an aoe damage niche is a possibility and there are builds that appreciate that. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 21:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

So(a question)

Just wondering, you doing one of these for every profession or what? /is working on school work and studying for german, so I can't read the entire main article, just got to skim over it. Just wondering on that though, If so I'm waiting to hear about Ranger and Ritualist...personn5 01:29, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I... will be. My big hangup on the next article (Ranger) officially involves not knowing what the fuck to do to expertise, along with a healthy dose of real life. Unofficially, NEW COMPUTER TODAY WANT. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 15:02, 23 September 2009 (UTC)