Talk:Aggressive Refrain

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• 2007 complains

Aggressive buff.

The above comment is very nice. making it a stance without the CA offset would make it very balanced. There are ton't of stance counters. If not stance then enchantment perhaps , again tons of counters. CA is the ultimate shutdown for paragons as if there's another shouter in range you need to pull out of combat so that CA can be removed & your other conditions ( blind the worse of all) can be dealth with. Even if there isn't another shouter CA has to be removed one too many times. Ofc i found a way to overcome it party by using Signet of aggression / For Great justice combo you can have a steady flow of adrenaline ( even easier for shouter paras as they don't need FGJ , i myself being spear spike need it) however you sacrifice attack speed & with it skills like mighty throw & unblockable throw become ineffective. With AR in it's current state Mighty throw & unblockable throw should have their casting times removed. More importantly one proffession should not be nerfed to oblivion becouse of it's Way. 8 paragons are imbalanced yes but so are any other 8 same proffesion teams. 8 Air spikers can deal enough dmg to bring down a warrior with signet of stamina , endure pain & defy pain down in a matter of seconds. Even rangers which have high armor vs elemental dmg have a hard time against Air spike. Let's not forget the good old necros & monks who can spike with armor ignoring dmg ( necros ) & dmg without any specific resistances ( monk's holy). But then again most 8 man teams have their counters people need to brind anti shout skills even if they are too narrow they can bring the entire 8 para team down on it's knees. The answer is make a limited number of the same proffession to join the team. That would effectively kill the proffession Ways.

Why don't they leave the skill as it is now, and give a paragon 100 armor (standard), like on the 1 april joke?

He already has 96, isn't that enough? 145.94.74.23 08:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

WAIT A SECOND

regardless of what anyone says, this skill still costs 25 FRIKKIN ENERGY. that's often more than half of what a para can get if they're covered in attunement runes, plus they have slow regen. you can get better and less conditional IAS with almost any other profession in the game. 90.194.189.167 14:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

lol. - Y0_ich_halt 14:52, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

"This Echo is reapplied every time a Chant or Shout ends on you." ~ Kurd 19:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

"Go for the Eyes!" "Watch Yourself!" - Y0_ich_halt 19:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Generally this has 2 problems: starting energy cost and cracked armor. Since this is so bothersome in most PvP areas you will end up either taking a friend to help you remove the condition or another skill since you can be stuck in a loop of cracked armor. Why not be independant and take another low cost higher duration IAS?--ShadowFog 04:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

because it's easier to take this (especially with more than one paragon) and just have a monk remove cracked if you're under attack? actually, it can be quite helpful as rc feed. - Y0_ich_halt 11:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, is the same shitty excuse all over when discussing self condition inflicting skills, The Restore Condition argument.--ShadowFog 12:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

the point is, why sacrifice tons of flexibility only to avoid cracked armor if it's not even a real problem? - Y0_ich_halt 13:01, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Already stated that:Since this is so bothersome in most PvP areas you will end up either taking a friend to help you remove the condition or another skill since you can be stuck in a loop of cracked armor. Thats all, if you cant find a way to get rid of it dont use it, otherwise, use it's infinite duration.--ShadowFog 16:34, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

still 25 energy. 90.194.189.107 17:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

That was your starting statement.--ShadowFog 19:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Like I said in a statement above. If you want to attack with the Paragon, go R/P and crank the Expertise. You will be spamming 10 and 5 energy attack skills to your heart content.--ShadowFog 18:05, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Just give it to someone else!

Honestly, AR seems a pretty good skill to me. As a Para you should be shouting regularly and have high leadership and this skill gives you a reason to have both. Yes cracked armor is a pain but you can't expect to maintain a 25% IAS forever without a penalty can you? And while removing the condition is an option why not send it to someone else with Plague Touch, Plague Sending or even Plague Signet for the longest lasting Cracked Armor in the game? You can follow it up with Chest Thumper and cause a deep wound too while you're at it. Thomasuwoo 00:32, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Really Strong Arm

I used to think this was a guy with a big arm. Now I've realised it's a head. Ups.--92.10.202.17 19:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Large skill icons like File:Aggressive Refrain (large).jpg are your friend for that sort of stuff. Except the ones that are suck resizes, or PVE skills ^_^. --Star Weaver 20:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Thought it was a torment claw 'til now :P 72.220.22.128 17:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

February 2010 "Balance" Changes

PLEASE don't further nerf this skill by removing Cracked Armor from it. -20 Armor is -20 Armor, but a -20 Armor condition can be spread/removed :/ I've yet to see it mess with hero/henchmen AI all that much, and the proposed change from [1] would ruin things like Paragon Contagion builds :( I like being able to spread Cracked Armor / Weakness / Deep Wound :( -24.60.5.94 00:39, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Removing cracked armor was the best solution; it allowed for people to run Paragons without heroes wasting their energy trying to remove Cracked Armor every 3 seconds. The ability for it to be used in hero builds far outweighs the little usage it saw in Contagion PvP. Rikk Panda 07:36, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Wow, that comment came late. Anyways, I would argue that it was not a good solution. Aggressive Refrain and Soldier's Fury give a relatively permanent -20 armor now that cannot be removed except by waiting out the duration (unlike the Cracked Armor versions). If they were going to do this, the least that could have been done was to convert the skill type into a stance, so that they could be swapped out, like Frenzy. 97.107.103.46 17:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)