ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Paragon/"It's just a flesh wound."

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Won't that make it overpowered? Maybe add a recharge to it to compensate... Nicky Silverstar 08:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Never gonna see hex removal with 1 sec recharge. --89.142.125.104 15:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping the deep wound and target other ally without a heal would not make it overpowered; at least compared to Blessed Light and Divert Hexes. Recharge time could be increased to 2 or 3 seconds and if still too powerful, making it remove only 1 condition. I think It would give a paragon an effective way to remove hexes and support allies if used.It would be nice to be able to heal a target with this shout but the other suggestion seems a little weak when compared to the monk's elite orison of healing, Glimmer of Light. To come close to its effectiveness and increase its healing power, you'd probably have to change deep wound condition to Cracked Armor since it might be overpowered by paragons using it when they have at least +80 AL. --Harmony 00:36, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's basically the problem with the entire Motivation line. Nicky Silverstar 08:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Why cracked armor? DW is much more limiting. DW reduces healing on paragon, making pressure just as effective as if he had cracked armor. Reduced health also makes paragon more spikable same as if he had cracked armor. DW is like cracked armor except is also works with armor ignoring damage.--89.142.126.88 12:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Paragons would still have very high AL compared to the usual healing ritualist or monk and would take less damage (unless its armor ignoring). Cracked armor brings it a little closer to 60 AL and allows more use of some skills introduced in EotN - especially Chest Thumper. However, a paragon would probably still have over 80 AL so to have much more viable healing in the motivation line, I think more would have to be done starting with the high AL. --Harmony 03:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I made the suggestion to make it a straight heal. Yes it would be weaker than Glimmer of Light, but that's the point, paragon is no monk. It would make a great elite for a paragon that works with adrenaline skill bar, and has bunch of energy to spend, to give his monks a hand.

I think a paragon would offer more support with condition\hex removal. Most monks probably bring an elite that heals, protects, or helps heal better. They why I suggested non-conditional condition\hex removal. It would offer a substitute to an Expel Paragon that could remove more hexes and conditions over time for more energy. --Harmony 06:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Added a new suggestion. --Spura 15:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

If you were to offer condition immunity, try this=" You suffer a deep wound for 10..6..4 second, for 1..2..3 seconds, target other ally is immune to conditions. " change the energy to 10 since this allows a proactive use of the skill, along with the reactive. A paragon wont have the energy to use it for every spike AND use 2 spike skills, so you would either have a non-blind warrior, or a spiking paragon. Also has good synergy with wearying skills, and with Draw and Foul Feast, as drawing to an immune target removes conditions. --Angelic Loki 03:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I intentionally added that you'd be only be immune to conditions that got removed. This was to prevent people from simply pre-protting a warrior against blind with it(unless warrior was blinded just prior to planned spike) and at the same time it would works well against apply poison for instance. I also said target ally, because I HATE target other ally on paragon skills like IJAFW and brace yourself!, because it limits the skill to GvG, HA(especially in case of brace yourself). --Spura 18:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

You make a good point, but it IS an elite, if used correctly, it should be powerful. There is no chance a paragon can keep it on a warrior constantly, or even for every spike. It should have heavy utility, it has to compete with RC. --Angelic Loki 04:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

make this remove conditions from all allies in the area. 189.70.171.99 23:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Any application of just a blunt condition removal will leave this skill vastly inferior to cautery signet or Song of Purification, both of which are party wide and have no effective downside. This is why some other effect is required.

EDIT: Its also a shout, so it would be "In Earshot" --Angelic Loki 10:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah....there is really no need for the third "remove conditions party-wide" elite on paragon. --Spura 12:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The paragon has enough condition removal skills already. It would be more beneficial to motivation to give it a different affect.--Harmony 03:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I am honestly tempted to say that this skill is fine. The only possible buff would be to lower the energy cost to 3 energy. Even then, still a bit iffy. This IS the most powerful consition removal around. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 20:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

That's just plain false. RC heals like 70 health per condition removed and gives no DW. Same cost, nearly same recharge. And don't give me that "uninterruptable" bullshit...how often does RC get interrupted(and it recharges fast)? IJAFW sucks extremely hard, and you even call it he most powerful condition removal around. Are you kidding me? If it is the most powerful condition removal around, then how come everyone uses RC and nobody EVER uses this piece of crap? The only person who I've ever seen it use was myself, because I tried to make it work, and failed, because it is a sack of shit. I chouldn't save Mesmer NPC from apply poison ranger. With RC, the heals from poison removal would have kept him alive. LOL "the most powerful condition removal around"....where do you come up with this stuff...and yet you expect to be taken seriously. --Spura 20:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Does Leadership affect this? If so make it 1 energy with a health sac of 10% or more that way its a free (energy base wise) condition removal at the expense of lowering your health a bit and its limited spammability otherwise you die. xD--Underwood 20:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, spura, this is the fastest recharging, fastest casting condition removal. Granted, it doesn't have the healing aspect of RC, but the "uninterruptable" aspect is less of a bullshit. You can't RC through daze, you can't RC through KDs and you can't RC when a migraine mesmer camps you. Yeah, all rather moot points when compared to the pressure alleviation ability RC has, but still respectable in it's own right. Is it underpowered? Yeah, compared to RC, it is. Compared to other condition removals, though, not so much. You can't expect your argument to be takes seriously when your argument consists of "this skill is bullpoo". File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 16:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Leadership does not effect this, so its a full 5 energy. You will fast run out of energy using this of a paragon, so you have to be very careful when you use it. (A usually overlooked problem with the skill is that paragons have 2 pips of regen, whereas monks have 4, so its much harder on the energy then the 5 cost makes it look) As for best in the game... It's certainly not the worst in the game, but I think it is outclassed by RC because RC has the same effect with a benefit, as opposed to a downside. I would think its better, if SoP didn't provide essentially the same effect with no downside. (I am aware of SoR taking time to charge, but you wont use a paragon as a split character much anyway, as their primary encourages their use in stand teams, so you will almost always have SoP charged when you need it) I think that giving a 1-2 second immunity to all conditions would justify the skill having (essentially) a higher energy cost and a downside as opposed to a benefit, because it provides good synergy and good utility. What I like most is that while it makes the skill powerful, it forces the user to have SKILL to use it right, so gimmicks probably wouldn't use it. --Angelic Loki 01:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

First off, paragons have unlimited energy, so moot point. Second, I'd like to say that yes, this needs a buff. Elites like RC, and SoP as loki said, blow this outta the water. But I am really itchy about how to buff this. Immunity to condtions is a dangerous game to play, Too much of a lowered cost is dangerous, You know, and I feel that there are many other elites that need attention before this. This is.. mediocre, not just terribad. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 15:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I dont know if "unlimited" is the right term, but they have very good e-management if your team is all in one place. I think that a knock to 10 energy with the accompanying condition immunity would allow both proactive and reactive skill usage while hurting a paragons energy enough to force him/her to use it wisely. --Angelic Loki 05:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Paragons don't have unlimited energy. I've tested this with various builds in AB. Whenever I had this skill on my bar, I ran out of energy in second. 5 energy is too much for what it does, considering it is elite. If it costed 2 energy, then you'd have a point there Nuclear. But so you don't. Paragons don't have unlimited energy, far from it. And much like ranger skills, paragon skills are badly overpriced so they take leadership into account. --Spura 16:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

They aren't... badly overpriced. If you look at heal per energy on the paragon skills, its very close to the other party heals, and the armor buffs are in-line with others. Even leadership skills aren't really overpriced, and paragons are given a lot of skills for E-Management. This skill wont ever work as a replacement for RC because honestly you have 2 pips of regen unless you put it on a caster, and you would simply spam it to fast. With RC, the caster is forced to make the choice of which conditions to remove, since you can only cast it every 5 seconds (4 sec recharge + 3/4 sec cast), but with this skill, no such choice needs to be made, as you can use it every 1 sec. This tends to make people spam the skill when their energy regen wont permit it. 5e every 1 sec is around -15 energy degen >:O. There is no way that ANY class could keep that up. You have to be selective in which conditions you remove, and remember that not all conditions are WORTH removing right away. Let your monks handle some of them. --Angelic Loki 19:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Giving immunity every 1-2 seconds would also mean that it would be able to trigger echos, like Enduring harmony. With Enduring Harmony, you could double the immunity to 2-4 seconds. 10 energy might keep it in check. If it was 5 energy, it would probably be overpowered as it could trigger finales at low cost like Finale of Restoration and Blazing Finale every 1-2 seconds. Overall though, I think something should be done to make it more unique compared to other paragon elite skills because in its current form, its weak compared to other paragon and some monk condition removal. --Harmony 22:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to steer this offtopic, but spura, AB is about the worst place to take a paragon. It's just basicly solo cap cap cap action there, unless your side mobs, at which point any decent paragon has unlimited energy. I won't comment on this further, as it is neither here nor there in this page. And as I said, a 3 energy tag would suit this better than 5. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 23:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

So, is AB the worst place or not for a paragon ? Yseron - 90.28.209.81 23:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Because mobbing is against the idea of cap cap cap yeah, AB is the worst place for a paragon. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 10:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

AB is the easiest testing ground for pvp builds. I can't waste 8 guild members time for a gvg just so I can test IJAFW build. Also you are wrong, I used it like every half dozen seconds, and not every second and it still ran me out of energy insanely fast with no real effect. RC heals. Even putting RC on paragon with some prot prayers is better. The fact that you NEVER see this skill used(even though it requires 0 spec TBH) speaks volumes on its own. --Spura 10:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

AB is the easiest testing ground for pvp builds Still doesn't stop paragons from being horrible there. Were you using it on the wrong target? I never said this doesn' need a buff, see about two posts above. Also, remind me again how you managed to lose all energy insanely fast when your primary energy source, leadership, was crippled because you were in AB? File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 10:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Before there is a cat fight here, I've used the skill in both HA and GvG when I was running BYOB on smurfs (good fun, give it a try ;) ), and I cant use it like RC is used and Maintain energy. You have to be much smarter about which conditions are removed. Thats using 2 Adren shouts (Chorus of Resto and Energizing Chorus) to maintain energy, which is more then a normal PvP paragon, which uses 1. I was also performing in a flag stand situation, getting a full 5 energy back per shout, and attacking 25% faster through aggressive refrain. Due to the spammability and the 2 pips of regen, you have to be careful about what you remove. That should put to rest further bickering about whether energy is an issue, correct? --Angelic Loki 09:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

we wern't bickering- we were agreeing to disagree. Eventually we would all say that okay, this needs a redux in cost. My suggestion would be about 6 posts up - Reduce cost to 3 energy. -- nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 11:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thunderclap

→ moved from User talk:Isaiah Cartwright

It was a really cool skill before, now its boring. Also, "It's Just A Flesh Wound!" doesn't make sense with its effects now. 98.221.120.211 15:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

LoL wrong place? --Underwood 23:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

It's the right place just ignore the word thunderclap and the first sentence. All you need is common sense. 87.189.226.86