Feedback talk:User/Catchphrase/Dervish skills rework

some interesting ideas one thing however there is a few times where you stated non-monk enchant, i think it should be if a dervish enchant is removed in this way. I think that was what you were getting at by non monk but the way you have it was a little too specific Dinsy 19:29, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your compliments. Straight to the issue, by adding the clause of "If a non-monk enchantment is removed..." for the bonus effects is to prevent players to easily access the full benefits of self enchantment-removal skills through monk enchantments which is a commodity in any scenario. However I could easily just restrict the bonuses to just "If a dervish enchantment is removed...", but that will make dervish secular as a profession like ritualists are, weakening it instead due to skill limitations. There are very few self enchantments (outside of monk and dervish) which have cast time equivalent or lower than 1 second, recharge under 10 seconds and had the benefits aligned to a melee role.

Having that specific will give any other professions (especially assassins) who want to exploit dervish skills (e.g. Pious Assault) an ultimatum: either gimp their skill bar by bringing an irrelevant quick recharge enchantment to reap the full rewards of that specific skill or gimp their play by sacrificing an enchantment which assists in their DPS (e.g. Way of the Master). Catchphrase 12:28, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

hmmm... ok i get what your saying but it will limited it either way tbh, monks wont be able to use the skills and devishes will ignore /Mo altogher. Dinsy 22:36, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

They are still able to go Mo/D or D/Mo, but they will not be able to utilise the proposed skills well that's all as the objective of this update is to give dervish a niche method to dish out damage. It is akin to how other classes are not able to use hammers as well as warriors do. These dervish enchantments are unique in a sense that their effects are not supplementary (e.g. IAS, +% in scythe damage) but complimentary to dervish's DPS. Henceforth mysticism will be triggered more often as players will recast it on recharge and utilise it fully before self expiration to fuel energy for other skills. Catchphrase 16:36, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Your Pious Fury is a stance but has an activation time. Is that supposed to be a recharge time?--neshot 16:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Per Skill Comments

• Pious Fury: You exchange a fantastic instant enchantment control skill out for maintainable faster attacking. So Im not sure about it. I would say the skill as it is now is more interesting but clearly less powerfull.
• Taking out Staggering Force and Grenth's fingers as an "juggle"enchantment seems to go against your goal. Since now when it ends it's not beneficial anymore, leaving the enchantment juggler without the weakness and crippled condition. Ofcourse it might be possible to turn around the damage - condition output. This will make it so that when the dervish ends the enchantment will do extra damage instead of giving an condition.
• Zealous Renewal: I would change the skill to a more controllable option and make it a 1/4 cast time 5 energy half recharge half damage half duration. It would give the same effect except the skill itself isn't changed.
• Eremites Zeal: Erm I would say 2 seconds gives you just enough time to run to a foe rather than actually remove it.
• Pious assault might not recharge 33% faster when a monk is enchanting the dervish leaving the recharge effect random and uncontrollable when having a monk party member enchanting you.
• Aura slicer: I don't see why you want to take away the bleeding condition on the only non-elite scythe attack that causes bleeding.
• Test Of Faith: Seems nice although leaves the massive enchant removal. But yea. I like the control but dont like the overall power decrease of massive de-enchantment to just one :P
• Vow of Silence: Don't touch it. I like the way it actually is not just another Spell Breaker variant for PVE to abuse. But that's just me.
• Arcane Zeal suggestion is nice, seeing the original doesn't really...do anything for a melee based Profession. Also making enchantment jugglers have a key elite to bring.
• Vow of Strength is also nice, which I always thought is also uncontrollable within a team where you might have people doing conditions. Also since most earth prayers are doing conditions this skill doesn't seem to fit in at all. (except when you take something like, tenai's crystals. which costs like 15 energy. So I like.

Overall I might have been a little on the negative side, but hey I hope it helps you a bit. Nothing personal ofc. ^^ (Frizz 12:24, 9 May 2010 (UTC))

I agree with you on Vow of Silence, i'd say is perfect Dinsy 22:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I beg to differ on majority of your views.

• Pious Fury While no doubt it is the best skill out there for an instantaneous self enchantment removal, there are hardly any enchantments out there that warrant such effect maybe perhaps Vow of Silence. I don't know how you define it as 'powerful' in the first place when most dervish builds out there favor Heart of Fury as the optimal IAS with Onslaught and Whirling Charge viewed as second choices.
• Zealous Renewal That could be an effective solution for players who likes to spam quick activation attack skills except that Zealous Vow simply outperforms it in that aspect.
• Eremites Zeal & Pious Assault Ermmm... isn't it apparent enough that Eremite's Zeal usage would be to cast it right before you use a self enchantment removal attack skill (in this example Pious Assault)? I could hardly see the monk enchanting the dervish a detriment while executing this combo if you execute it in immediate succession.
• Aura Slicer And I hardly see why bleeding is an appropriate bonus when you hit an enchanted foe provided it isn't blocked in the first place. I can scarcely see why it being the only non-elite dervish attack skill which inflict bleeding makes it that good. Having a PbAOE physical damage as the bonus for hitting enchanted foes is hardly weak especially when you consider that it is inflicted even when the initial attack misses or blocked.
• Staggering Force and Grenth's fingers I believe this is where our opinions on how an 'enchantment juggler' goes about his business splits. You are most likely envisioning it to be someone who cast a whole stack of enchantments and rip it all apart via Mystic Sandstorm while I picture it as it systematically removing via its attacks. I could be wrong on this. Nevertheless, you left me clueless on why my suggestions on these enchantments weaken it when it is fully capable of dealing out 153 PbAOE earth/cold damage at 12 Earth/Wind Prayers compared to 68. And I haven't factor in the damage coming from the scythe attacks which trigger the enchantment effects and also the possibility of it being used in sync with the proposed Arcane Zeal or Vow of Strength. The amount of damage churned out during that period of time is so much more as compared to damage inflicted upon enchantment cast and ending.
• Vow of Silence It can scarcely be abused as it removes all enchantments on self upon cast. The only way to 'abuse' it from the way I see it is having elaborate team builds. I could be wrong on this too, but at least I'm convinced that it won't that overpowered as Spellbreaker or Shadow Form were previously. Catchphrase 15:18, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I think you're all wrong, as long as there's no way to actually abuse VoS in PvE like there still is with SF & ObsidA, it will continue to only be useful in ghetto running builds which is to say it's a worse "Elite" in PvE now than Wastrel's Collapse is. Even with a bonder, a VoS derv is complete garbage because the PvE bots can and WILL interrupt 0.25¼ spells. --ilr 23:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)