Feedback talk:User/Ealias/Good vs Evil - Choices

Excellent suggestion. Something similar was suggested in this feedback. Which is good that this topic is being brought up again. My personal opinion is I'm tired of linear, pre-ordained, scripted storylines; and from the looks of your suggestion as well as the feedback link I just posted above, other people are, too.

It doesn't matter how deeply the game developer buries that linear predictability in beautiful graphics, dynamic events, cool items, and a massive online world. At the end of the day it comes down to this; I know - without even having played the game yet - that I (and every other player who buys the game) will achieve the following:

1. I will level up along a predictable curve.
2. I will be considered the "good guy/hero" throughout the game world both in my personal story and in my interactions with NPCs.
3. I will help reconcile the differences of the five races of Tyria to form an alliance against the dragon(s).
4. I will slay an end-boss dragon, bringing a close to the storyline.

Yaaaaaaaaaawn.

Will I play the game? Sure. Will I enjoy it? Sure; within the context of the limits I've just noted. But all along there will be that nagging feeling of, "Hmmm, what would it be like to play a centaur and go marauding across Kryta?", or "It might be fun to form an alliance with the Skritt and help them defeat some Asura", or "I feel like helping the Kraitt capture some slaves today." But I can't do any of those things because I'm boxed into the role of "good guy". My path is set before me and I have no control over changing it; minor details such as whether I was born into royalty or come from the streets being completely irrelevant.

Though I agree with you when you say your suggestion runs the risk of devolving into nothing more than MMO PvP, I think this can be reconciled. You already logically suggested that such conflicts could be limited to the borders between the various races. Also, I see no reason why there can't be an over-arching storyline while still permitting a greater degree of personal freedom as to which path to follow. Besides, the dragons threaten everyone in Tyria; "good" and "evil" alike. So there's no reason why an "evil" player shouldn't be able to ally with the "good" players to defeat a common foe while still remaining enemies of one another.

Going one step further, maybe it's time to get really radical and consider dispensing with the BIG BAD THREAT FROM OUTSIDE paradigm common to all RPGs. Whether it's dragons, or liches, or titans, or mad gods, the threat/challenge of these games is always some (usually singular) uber-bad-guy that comes from outside the boundaries of the day-to-day game world and threatens the stability and peace of that world. What if there was no such uber-bad-guy? What if the threat/challenge existed between the players themselves? What if the conflict was all of the various factions, groups, alliances, etc. that would be forged between all of the people playing the game and vying for their piece of the world? Epic battles between vast armies ebbing back and forth across territorial boundaries, alliances forged, treaties made and broken, intrigue, sabotage, assassination, etc.

If you still want to keep the BIG BAD THREAT FROM OUTSIDE to maintain some sense of tension and directed gameplay so people aren't floundering wondering what to do next, incorporate it as part of this new direction in player interaction. Perhaps one faction of players are able to summon a powerful demon to fight on their behalf if they manage to collect enough of specific raw materials, artifacts, and conqueor enough territory. Said demon then becomes the equivalent of a game-changing end-boss for other factions to battle. These other factions, in turn, may be working to prevent the first faction from being able to complete the rite that will summon the demon or are otherwise engaged in doing whatever they have to do to summon some great champion or hero of old to fight on their behalf. Perhaps if the demon is summoned, no one faction will be strong enough to defeat it. Now they have to consider making an ally out of what may have previously been an enemy in order to join forces against this common threat. This would all be dynamic, ever-chaning, and on-going.

And it wouldn't be as simplified as I presented it here of just "evil" demon versus "good" ancient hero. Every faction would have the opportunity to summon some great champion of their particular cause; the Sylvari may be able to bring sentience to the plants of the world such that they now begin to fight back against anyone who tries to chop down a tree or clear a field for farming or maybe they raise a Juggernaught army, the Asura construct some gigantic uber-golem, the Humans are able to summon one of the five gods of old to manifest in the world, the Norn are able to pray to their totem animal spirits to summon the Great Spirit, the Charr manage to construct some almighty war machine or even world-changing bomb (they did it before with the Searing), the Kraitt prophets are able to raise a tidal wave to drown some coastal cities, etc. You get the idea.

It could even be multi-faceted in that each race or faction or alliance may have a variety of options to choose from for creating some big, bad threat to the world. It's then up to the players who are allied with a particular race or faction to choose which path they want to take; will they summon something to bring death and destruction, will they summon something to counter the threat of another race or faction, will they instead put their efforts into sabotaging another race's or faction's attempt to summon their own champion, will they perform some rite or ritual that helps maintain the status quo, peace, and stability, etc.?

This permits lots of options and with it would come a great deal of freedom for the players to choose their own path in the game as well as provide for an ever-changing game experience. So now - instead of just "good" versus "evil" - we have a multitude of different world views and ways in which each group will go about achieving their version of utopia (or at least dominance) within the game; all the while coming into conflict with all of the other groups who are trying to do the same thing. All of this adds up to constant dynamicism, interaction, and an ever-changing landscape (economic, physical, political, social, etc.) rather than static, linear, and predictable storylines. If Anet wants to make the game TRULY dynamic, then go all out. Otherwise, dynamic events are just side distractions from yet another scripted plot with a pre-ordained ending.

Yes I will play Guild Wars 2 and, yes, I will enjoy it. But I will still be hoping for the day when the mold is genuinely broken rather than just dressed up with a few minor features and presented as something new and ground-breaking when it isn't. It's time for a game that allows the players to choose their own path (and have that path actually mean something within the game instead of being a compartmentalized "home instance" that has no real impact on the game) rather than forcing them down a path with no way of deviating from it. I concede that is difficult to achieve. But not because of any technical challenges involved but rather because it means giving up control of the game's direction and putting that control in the hands of the players. However, I think game developers would be pleasantly surprised to discover just what a successful game that would be. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 18:41, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

great post man, an interesting read i agree with the majority of what you said, although i disagree with the implication that guild wars doesn't genuinely break the mold, as i think it does in many ways but admittedly not in the area we are talking about, but i guess no game is perfect, gw2 just looks to be the closest i've seen for an mmo. you'll be glad to know that some of what you were talking about in terms of what could be is actually already in the game (in fact you probably already know because its so close to what you said it would just be freaky if you didn't lol): "the Kraitt prophets are able to raise a tidal wave to drown some coastal cities" - this is part of an event chain where a krait witch summons a tornado that destroys much of hylek territory (got my info from this 10 part video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mjiRKkHwXk). "the Asura construct some gigantic uber-golem" that's also confirmed in that vid^ although i think it's a multi-racial group using asura tech. "the Sylvari may be able to bring sentience to the plants of the world" just going by the trailer but i think that's how the oakhearts came into being. Ealias 21:36, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Wow! That IS freaky. I didn't know anything about the video you linked to or about Anet's plans to add those elements to the game. Those just seemed to be logical conclusions to draw based on each races' culture, habitat, etc. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 19:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)