Feedback talk:User/Neithan Diniem/Warrior Skill Combination - Shield Wall

I find this interesting but I don't think it should be restricted to Tower shields. --Miteshu 23:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The reason I restricted it to a new shield class is because the functionality of such a skill accurately reflects how tower shields were used (or other shields that fall under this classification). They aren't shields you can smash around. Also the current shields have their skills now, so changing them is a bit harder than adding new ones. If they have shields use different skills, then this idea would work great. However if all shields use the same skills, then a new shield class would be best made. If you've ever seen the movie 300, the tactics of a shield wall are heavily used there by the Spartans. It makes a highly powerful defensive wall from which you can attack and help the group as a whole from. The Romans also used the shield wall. Im just basing this off of proven historical usage and hoping it can make it into this incredible game.--Neithan Diniem 17:01, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, first of all, I really like this idea but I feel I have to challenge a few of the things you've said. I'm a Roman military re-enactor in real life, so I know what it's like to heft a shield, and believe me, you can 'smash them about'. You see, Roman shields are held like a briefcase, with a horizontal grip in the boss, this means you can punch with the shield like an oversized knuckleduster. Admittedly, this doesn't work with the Greek phalanx method of fighting because the shield is strapped to your forearm, it's made of heavy bronze, and it's meant to deflect blows out of arms' reach for the most part as you're engaging your enemy with polearms. Closer parallels would be with Viking or Saxon shield walls, which often included an assortment of different shield types.

From a gameplay perspective, it makes no sense to restrict the shield wall to a specific shield type, and even less to one that can only be used by a single class. It would encourage the mentality of “LF shield Warr!” at the exclusion of other more flexible strategies. I'd make a suggestion that the shield wall skill would be akin to a shout, but a 'formation shout', something like "Get in line!" or "Form ranks!".

The shout would form an area that follows the user's position, an equilateral triangle where the shouter stands in the middle of a side and the triangle points opposite to the way they're facing. Any shield wielding profession that enters the user's flank would voluntarily join the formation, creating their own differently coloured triangle as long as they are in range of the shouter. This other triangle would not allow another shield user to gain their own triangle, only the shouter's grants that ability. Anyone behind a shield wall, that is, inside the tapered end of a shield wall formation’s triangle(s) would gain a defensive bonus. This gives players the option of bunching up their shield wallers to stack defensive bonuses but becoming more vulnerable to AoE damage, or spreading out in order to cover more allies.

It might also be beneficial for guardians to have a different set of skills to warriors while in these formations.

This way, entering into a formation is a bit more flexible, optional, and provides more benefit for the non-shield wielders. I’d definitely like to hear your opinions on this. Redthorn 00:42, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. I knew the roman style shields were good for smashing around, and greeks were all about defelction. Main problem is that the shout has no use if no other shield users are around, however it makes the skill not only great for Guardians (shout and protection skill all in one), but it removes the need for a new shield type, both pluses. However, the triangle idea might be a bit odd though, as having one or several giant glowing triangles (Im assuming it would appear like a type of glyph on the ground) not only disrupts visual clearness, but might look a lil wonky (odd shape for a glyph). Where as seeing a line of soldier class professions with their shields raised would be a little more fitting. My guess would be that between them some type of "wall" effect would appear, making the whole concept more visual and less "What the heck are those guys doing just standing there?" It also permitted the possibility of having the wall be slightly mobile, as well as permitting players to form the wall however they needed it. Covering a straight line is all well and good, but covering a curve would be far more effective. It was restricted by how much mana it required to maintain, but could easily be a type of tag-team skill where the guy who runs out would be replaced by a fresh soldier, and then he could whip out a ranged weapon or take a rear defensive position. In a massive group, it could be maintained infinitely, and be any which length or size, but the more people huddling behind it, the more susceptible they would be to a bombardment. Theres ways this can be both a turtler's dream and an AoE Nukeapath's dream, but its vulnerability to life-stealing and energy drain (once they announce the Mesmer class, that is. You know darn well they're keeping their unique class in the game.) counterbalance its prolonged use.

The wall was never meant to protect against AoE strikes, where as low-flying projectiles would be diverted into the members making up the wall (either Warrior or Guardian) and reduced in severity. Strikes from above or arching ranged attacks would go right over the wall and hit those behind the defenses. Also the area behind the wall that was "safe" is triangular, not box-like, so people behind the fortification could still be flanked (thus why allowing the wall to be easily adjusted is desired.) The idea was to have it attached to shields to permit most players to have a solo defensive boost skill, but a party-wide defensive boost for a group. Though the more info they release about wall-like skills, the less this particular suggestion seems to fit in, unfortunately. I thought it up when the warrior was first released, so its very far behind the stuff we know today. I have no real clue any more how well this would fit in the game as it is today. Your suggestion does make it seem less overpowered (I guess) and more easily usable, but it also has no use to a solo player and might be difficult to implement the shield effect. Love the idea though, cause it has given me things to think about now. Please share any more ideas you have!--Neithan Diniem 03:43, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I suggested the triangle because there needs to be some visual aid to whether you're within range of the shouter for the purposes of either doining the wall or sheltering behind it. Perhaps just a stream of light linking the waller's shields while they're in range of each other? If the streams linked to the next target shield furthest from the shouter, this might work. I guess this should stop after a certain number of 'jumps' between shields.

As for the shield wall only being useful in a group, as far as I can see the guardian's Faithful Strike has much the same limitations of use according to the video on the official guardian page and that's a chain skill, meaning you have to work up to it... Not to mention that, like any other skill, such as the warrior's banners, the shield wall will change in effectiveness and desirability depending on how many others you're playing with.

Another possibility is allowing other weapons to stand in for shields: an elementalist with a focus could create a barrier over that arm, (themed to their current attunement, of course).

Yes, I'm all for mesmers, as long as enemies don't have infinite blue bars this time. =/ Redthorn 10:31, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, the shield wall was only meant to be "formed" when two soldier classes used the shield skill at the same time. If it were made into a shout and not this way, then there wouldn't be an easy way for the game to tell who is wanting to join the wall or who is wanting to hide behind it. More so if caster classes with offhands were to join in. The skill use way makes it a combination skill, skill effects having an effect on one another to create a more powerful effect. However, if a way to make the shout idea work is found, having focus items "enhance" to look more shield-like would be an incredibly interesting idea. That way, any class could technically join in.

A visual effect for the current usage would probably be a round glyph appearing around a character when they used the shield skill. Seeing that, Another character would enter that ring and use their skill, activating the shield wall (having a "light wall" appear between them is a good idea). The glyph would remain as the skill was in effect, permitting more players to join in on the chain if needed. This would also permit the players to see how the wall could be moved, just remain in the ring and your good. Walls would link with any other character using the skill, so three or more could create a "fortress" type wall layout (vulnerable to AoE like you wouldn't believe) but protected from melee incredibly.--Neithan Diniem 03:43, 18 February 2011 (UTC)