Feedback talk:User/Shard/Enraging Charge

This would be epic and I love it. ♥ Raine - talk 19:48, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I suggest a change only in the pvp version, because in pve this skill is belanced ^_^.--Ciotto 20:35, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

No, in pve this skill is identical. ~Shard 20:54, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Only because you think pve is for noob you shouldn't destroy poor happy warrior that do nothing damage on monster lvl 28 u.u.--Ciotto 21:06, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

But maybe you have right in pve this won't change things a lot...--Ciotto 21:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I think this would kill the skill, since it ends as soon as you hit in melee, which kinda ruins part of the point of it being an IMS. I think it should instead cause you to gain adrenaline when you hit a moving foe, or something, like enraged smash, only (hopefully) not OP. —Jette 08:42, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

IDK if you know this or not, but currently it ends when you hit with any attack, not just melee, so I don't know how that would contribute to killing it.--Underwood 09:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The difference being that the current version gives 4 adrenaline even if it lasts for a tenth of a second, whereas the new version would only give adrenaline if it lasts a while. Nobody uses it for the speed boost, it's the adrenaline they want. —Jette 09:33, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

this change will make it worse then "you will die" Talamare 09:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm concerned myself that this change would hurt it even when used properly. Having to activate a skill at just the right distance from a mob is annoying enough with Junundu Tunnel, I'd rather not be doing it with Enraging as well. I don't think it should require a moving foe to work either (the target being charged may not be moving, after all), but maybe it could require movement within the last, say, three seconds in order to trigger? (I considered having it gain adrenaline for every 3 seconds of running, but then I realised this could easily be used to maintain and build up adrenaline between fights.) Draxynnic 12:21, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

KISS. —Jette 12:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

This wouldn't kill the skill. It's still a slightly weaker copy of sprint. You can use it for movement. I'll think of some other possibilities to make it more combat-effective but not "this is part of my combo" ~Shard 23:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Simple to describe, or to use? I get what you're trying to do, but a functionality that encourages dancing in front of the enemy for 5 seconds or so before charging in doesn't seem like good skill design. Perhaps a better fit would be to make the skill fail if there is an enemy adjacent (although this would make it less effective as a cancel stance), or make it build up one strike of adrenaline per second of use up to the current maximums (so you can fire it off just before charging in and still get the full benefit, but if you use it mid-swing you'll only get one extra strike of adrenaline at most). Draxynnic 02:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the time when I use this it's to get to that monk we're spiking or away from that ele with guardian. Which is to say, I do use it for the speed boost, but not for very long. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, though. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 03:46, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

If a hammer war starts the KD with bulls, then 7a elite, then the in between hits, activating this during the in between hits (with the 2nd hit being prot strike) since elite + crush or + prot + this = 7, the elite will recharge, kd with the elite again, then when they get up again use bash, then try to hit them with bulls again... 4-5 kd lock... also this is theory i made up just now... I havent tested to see if it actually works... Talamare 10:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a legitimate use - the purpose of Enraging Charge is to allow you to get to a target quickly with a good chunk of starting adrenaline. The problem Shard sees, though, is in its current form there's nothing stopping you from just tapping it for adrenaline as part of an attack chain (apart from it knocking you out of your stance, but the other stances most Warriors use are easy enough to put back up). Draxynnic 02:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

prot strike has cast time so isnt affected by ias, and flail recharges after it gets canceled with enraged Talamare 02:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

My point was more that if you made it so you had to be in echarge for five seconds in order to get the full benefit, my example would get somewhat boned.

Perhaps: "Stance. For 2 seconds, if you attack, this stance ends with no benefit. You move 25% faster. Ends when you hit a foe, at which point you gain 0...4...5 adrenaline." Numbers to taste.

-- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 05:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

With dev hammer, you can qlock with dev hammer again if you use prot strike. You can't use Flail as an IAS, though, or you won't have enough adrenaline. Raine - talk 07:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Needs more FGJ. Vili 点 07:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Inspirational Speech. Raine - talk 07:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

stab needs a nerf. also, more people should carry c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker. Vili 点 07:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Talamere: Exactly my point. Armond: Unless you're running 14 Strength, waiting/charging 3 seconds will give you the same benefit as the current version does. The current suggestion (as opposed to the first version which scaled as one adrenaline every three seconds instead of one every second with a cap) actually appears to incorporate a small buff when it comes to long run-ups. Even for short dashes, it's essentially a slightly slower Sprint that gives back the adrenaline you lose by not being able to attack during the time you're chasing someone down. Think of it as your character getting angrier the more the coward runs! Draxynnic 03:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Prot strike is affected by IAS. is for Raine, etc. 04:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a pretty versatile skill, allows you to have both a speed boost (which Sprint does better) and adrenaline gain (which Mokele Smash does better). Provides bar compression at the cost of power. Like Mokele Smash, it takes no skill whatsoever to get the adrenaline but it has a pretty large recharge so if you use it at a wrong time, you may lack the adrenaline or speed boost that you need at a different time. I think that's enough to balance it out to be honest, it's not the most stupid skill I've ever seen anyway. Dark Morphon 07:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

There are few suggestions on Feedback that I like. This is one of them. Flail and Enraging are two of the few skills that drastically changed how Warriors (Hammer in this case) were played. Perfect examples of powercreep that should be toned down. -- Staples - talk 20:14, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

May be, but this suggestion will likely take this skill out of the game. Dark Morphon 08:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure why Shard is chosing to nerf this - I mean, it is a logical change, but who cares? Having it as a part of a combo isn't that big a deal - it certainly doesn't cause any imbalance, and this feels like a more lore-oriented change than anything else.

But if you are adamant about it, beware of spirnt. One will be in the game, the other will gather dust. WUBLEAR

VII 21:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't like enraging as it is because it's the most powerful energy->adrenaline gain skill in the game, AND it's a speed boost. ~Shard 02:20, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

If I were to nerf this skill (because of power creep, something that I can't deny this has caused), I'd reduce the speed boost duration to, like, 1-5 seconds instead of nerfing the adrenal gain. Seems more useful to me. Dark Morphon 13:13, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Skills that give you super adrenaline are bad for balance. ~Shard 01:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

derp derp NuVII 11:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Enlighten me Shard, how are adrenaline gain skills bad for balance? Dark Morphon 13:27, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

wait, lemme.

Again, positioning. Adrenaline is gained by whacking stuff on the head, so a good team can avoid a spike for quite some time by not letting the warriors build adrenaline.

That's why warriors began to carry spears: so they could charge while snared with no relief on the way. It's just that a warrior who's chucking spears isn't doing any pressure, so that balances out. Fast and easy adrenaline gain defeats skillful tactics without much effort, which is bad for balance. NuVII 14:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

This is the basis behind why energy DW skills are bad for balance:

Having spike skills always available makes it more or less impossible to force downtime on spikes. is for Raine, etc. 17:45, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense, but this skill takes a skill slot. That's a small downside. Can't it be balanced around that? Maybe move it to Tactics? Or make it require adrenaline instead of energy? Dark Morphon 16:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

"but this skill takes a skill slot." ftw -Talamare- feedback 17:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Basics, but pretty important nonetheless. Dark Morphon 10:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

lol

I can see myself running around an enemy wait for the full adrenaline gain. DarkMugen 04:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

or activating it before the pvp timer starts then using lion's comfort for a 2 hit backbreaker --adrin 08:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Are you gonna hit one of your allies to get the adrenaline? ~Shard 02:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

That would be *very* awesome. NuVII 09:08, 23 November 2009 (UTC)