Feedback talk:User/Thon Ghul/Foes on Compass
From Guild Wars Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
See this feedback suggestion and follow-up discussion tab for the counter-arguments against adding foes to the compass. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 18:58, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Well, I guess it may elicit a more emotional response, but possibly Anet could make it so when your view sweeps, the foes show up for.. 3 seconds, then slowly fade away?, Because without knowing where ANY of your foes are, it makes the game less fun for me ( and possibly other people ). I do enjoy the anticipation (sometimes), but alot of times it just is aggravating, such as finding Oni's in a map in factions, you can search the whole map, but very possibly miss the group, Why?, because they aren't shown on the map, so a person could spend hours (possibly) clearing a map for Vanquish, and still have to run all over trying to find the spawn. So maybe lighting up the entire map of foes would be impossible, but maybe make it work like Call of Duty, or something. Shows up and disappears as you move. But plain Just no foes on map, increases my agitation, and very possibly makes me just quit for the day. Also, as a Magician, we could have a Magic Sensor, simply because in fictional fantasy, a magician can sense when somebody is near, through nature..the mind...or sending out a magic "pulse" to explore the landscape. So, I still think we should have Foes on Compass but maybe they could do something like CoD. -- 
Thon Ghul|Talk 19:14, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- As to the Oni example, I don't think that will be a problem in GW2 as there really won't be an option to vanquish any longer. I fully agree with you that in a game in which vanquishing is permitted, a compass with little red dots is an absolute necessity if you want to avoid frustrating the player base. However, with GW2 it's a completely different paradigm. Now, instead of being required to kill every monster on the map, players will have achievements to work towards. These achievements will be things such as, "Total number of centaurs slain", or, "Total daily kills". Since the world is now so densely populated with monsters which respawn fairly quickly, it will never be the case that a player will run out of enemies to kill.
- Being a persistent MMO rather than an instanced half MMO/half single-player RPG, players aren't even going to have an option to vanquish an entire region. The need to track down every last enemy using a compass is no longer a consideration in GW2; nor can it be. If a player were to vanquish an entire region - wiping out all the enemies - what do all of the other players sharing in that persistent world do for a challenge? Now, you simply kill whatever number of foes are needed to earn credit for a Renown Heart, Dynamic Event, or a personal achievement. There is a meter to indicate your progress and the enemies which count towards those goals are constantly respawning in your immediate vicinity. No longer is there a need track down a foe across the entire map. Thus, there's no need to display the enemies on the compass to accomplish these tasks; just kill whatever you see right in front of you. This is consistent with ArenaNet's explicitly stated goal of getting players to focus on the action in the main game window and their interactions with enemies and other players rather than focusing on a plethora of spreadsheets, dialog boxes, UI controls, and other miscellaneous widgets on the margins of that window.
- As to the suggestion of mages having a special ability permitting them to magically sense the location of enemies, I agree with you that - being a fantasy world - we can script anything we want and give it an internally consistent and logical explanation. However, from a games design standpoint, this runs counter to another one of ArenaNet's goals; no specialization or role exclusive to a single profession. If a mage (elementalist) is given this ability alone, then we're back to "GLF (group looking for) ele with clairvoyance"; which - functionally - is no different than "GLF monk healer". This is a gaming element ArenaNet wants to move away from rather than towards. The counter-argument of, "Then simply give this ability to all players.", returns us back to a situation which - in practice - results in displaying foes on the compass again; something I've demonstrated that ArenaNet does not want to do.
- Coming from a background in which all or nearly all of the games a person has played have a compass displaying enemy locations, GW2's lack of this same mechanic may be a little unsettling at first. But if we deconstruct the compass-with-foes mechanic, what is it essentially communicating to the player? I would argue it communicates the following:
- You, player X, are standing at point A. You are tasked with getting to point B. Between you and point B are some red dots on a compass indicating enemy positions. To get to point B, you must kill those little red dots to accomplish your goal. In other words, the goal is not engaging in an immersive combat with your foes; it's getting to some point past those foes. They are simply a means to an end. Of course, once you get to point B, then you will have to get to point C by fighting past another group of little red dots; rinse-and-repeat, rinse-and-repeat. Under this system, the foes are a distraction, an annoyance, an obstacle lying between you and the goal (whatever it may be). In this scenario, the point of the experience is the goal on the other side of the enemies.
- ArenaNet is changing this so the point of the experience is the combat with those enemies and interactions with your friends. In the former scenario it's all about, "Yeah, I had to grind my way through ten trash mobs to get to the chest at the end. It took a long time and that part was boring, but at least I got this cool loot.". In the latter scenario it becomes, "We were working towards the chest but then all of a sudden we got ambused by seven Giant Spiders. They came out of nowhere, man! They downed Magog and we had our backs up against the wall there for a second. But then Kyle the Holy layed down his protective wall to buy us some time to revive Magog. We had quite a fight on our hands but in the end we beat 'em. We really pulled together as a party. It was EPIC, dude!"
- A compass with foes creates a view of the gaming world which is always future-oriented rather than present-oriented. Each encounter becomes one in which players are projecting forward their actions some seconds or minutes into the future because they can see the enemies as little red dots well in advance of the actual combat itself. By the time the real fight takes place, players have already run a simulation in their head of how it will play out and even discussed among themselves their actions and roles in that combat. When they finally initiate combat with the enemy, it is simply a replay of their pre-strategizing session.
- With the elimination of the little red dots from the compass, players are forced to play in the present. You don't know what's coming around the corner until you actually round the corner. Now players have to remain more alert and - consequently - more immersed in the game because they have no way of knowing from one second to the next what they will be facing. This isn't to say strategizing is completely eliminated. Quite the contrary; players will most definitely need to strategize to survive in the game. Now, though, their strategies are focused on reactive responses to the unknown and a constantly changing situation happening in real time instead of following a pre-ordained script. It makes players aware of and engaged in what's happening right now rather than what will be happening 5 minutes from now.
- I realize this approach doesn't work for everyone; it breaks with an established mechanic and approach from other games. However, keep in mind that humans are incredibly adaptable. What seems weird or uncomfortable this very moment will feel perfectly natural in a few weeks. Of course, if it doesn't, then it may simply be that GW2 isn't for you. Which, given the wide variety of games available these days, means there's something out there to suit everybody's taste. It's very unlikely, though, that ArenaNet will add little red dots to the compass since that goes against several of their fundamental design philosophies around which they've already built the game as outlined here and in the referenced feedback post above.
- Give it a chance, though; more than a Beta Weekend Event, anyway. It takes ~3 weeks to learn a new behavior. If you stick with it, you might come to find this new method is more to your liking as you gain time and experience with the game. If, after ~3 weeks of trying, you return here to report that you still prefer little red dots on the compass, then I'll eat my words. Either way, I'll be curious to hear your opinion. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 21:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I will play Guildwars 2 Regardless of Foes-on-compass, but I would prefer a way to atleast tell where foes are, maybe not more then 10 paces away or something, but a way to know if there is a group of foes right in-front of you while you are fighting someone else and not able to see them, would be very helpful to me. Now, the Oni/vanq. approach was just an off-the-top-of-my-head example. As for the mages/only having radar, maybe a warriors armor could be enchanted(automatically) to tell the person where someone is (radar). Or maybe it could be a profession kinda thing.."As a Human, our gods taught our ancestors to use our mind to know whats ahead, and as such the trait was passed down through the ages." "As an asura, we have invented a special brain implant (or something like that), that allows us to use a primitive radar to see whats ahead."... And stuff like that. Also (my last point/comment) I am sure Arenanet could implement SOME way to bring this idea into being. They could come up with something that fits into it in the beggining, or even, as you get better/further along in the game, they could slowly add an extremely long and difficult challenge that allows you to create/learn how to scan the area ahead of you for foes.
- Thank you, Thon_Ghul; I appreciate that. I do understand where you're coming from. I've played - and enjoyed - my fair share of games which include a compass-with-foes mechanic. However, after having played one in which its hard mode eliminated that mechanic - forcing players to rely only on what can be seen in the main game window - it was a whole different (positive) experience. However, my first time playing hard mode was with a frustrated, "WTF?!?!" reaction; but as I played it more and more, I came to see how much more immersive, challenging, and fun the experience was. Once I reached that point, I never voluntarily returned to normal mode. The few times I did (because the hard mode games were full at the moment), it was a boring shooting-fish-in-a-barrel experience; I couldn't wait to get back into a hard mode game. Obviously, I'm glad to see the same thing implemented in GW2; but I do understand the initial frustration that players will experience. Just give it a chance is all I ask. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 23:57, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
