Talk:Spear of Redemption

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

• Spear of redemption: skill rework: If it hits, you deal +5..20 damage, otherwise you lose 1 condition.
• Please discuss skill change here. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Now meant to remove blind, right? Backsword

NICE! Plus, it makes total sense. You miss, so you redeem yourself by overcoming a condition. --Heelz 23:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

You should rename it Nonsensical Spear because this really make no sense.

This is an ADRENAL skill that has been reworked to pretty much become a self blind-removing skill. My point is: If you're being blinded all the time (B-surger ?), HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE ADRENALIN IT TAKES TO USE THIS SKILL ? Miss Velvetine 01:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Very good change. Good attack skill in itself (ok +damage for low adren) and a nice side effect. Patccmoi 01:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, much better now. The condition removal may be more limited, but now there is a reason to take this instead of Remedy Signet. Erasculio 02:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Too much damage for the Adrenaline cost. --Deathwing 02:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Compare with Wearying Spear. --Ufelder 03:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Wearying Spear has a drawback, this has the opposite of that. --Deathwing 03:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Damage is still lower on this skill. --Ufelder 03:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

My reading comprehension is screwed up : /. I kept reading that you lose a condition, I didn't realize that you have to miss to lose a condition. --Deathwing 03:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Rather high damage bonus for what looks like a pressure skill at its cost. Look at Keen Chop. --Kale Ironfist 03:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Aside from any problems with the damage amount, I love this version. You'll probably see a lot of Paragons using walls as condition removal too, and that's something I want to see in action. :D I also want to see a guy cursing when he manages to land a hit through Blind, but at least he'll get the extra damage. -- Jioruji Derako.> 03:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

(reset)Clever. I like it. 07:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Very solid change here. I could see this going on a lot of paragons' bars. Great change and now a great skill. --Dragonious 08:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Isn't the adrenaline cost a little too low, when compared to each and every other low-adrenaline cost skill? Just a thought, I like the skill a lot :-) Nicky Silverstar 06:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm very surprised. I expected a counterpart when i first read this skill's description but it's a bonus. Reasonable bonus, only 3 adren, it needs 4 adre imo. This skill is ok, remove 1 condition if it fails or is blocked, it won't remove blindness but rather weakness, cracked armor,cripple those kind of things. A strange Remedy Signet, like it :p ~~ Azul 15:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Rather godly for the niche P/D ebon dust para- reasonable damage, totally spammable adrenal spear, makes blinding you quite a pain.

You already had Barbed Spear for that. Nicky Silverstar 07:57, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Spamming Barbed Spear is useless though, because once the bleeding's applied, it's simply a waste of adrenaline (you don't gain any benefit from giving bleeding to a bleeding foe). This, on the other hand, will raise your DPS if you spam it. -- Jioruji Derako.> 08:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but that doesn't make it any less spammable. Just fairly useless, unless you count covering conditions.Nicky Silverstar 16:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

True. I guess the correct wording would be that Paragons are finally getting a cheap attack skill that's worth spamming. Barbed is useful as a repeatable cover condition, and possibly for spreading bleeding (oh noes! the entire team's got -2 degen!). But if you only had room for one of the two skills, You're most likely going to be giving Barbed Spear the boot in favor of this one. -- Jioruji Derako.> 04:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you on that one, but it is -3 degen.Nicky Silverstar 06:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Dunno what the complaints about the pressure are. I am glad that there's actually a spammable adren spear attack with +dmg. Was frustrating with all those energy conditional DW attacks.--193.95.195.227 17:12, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Original skill feedback

Remedy Signet -Rakeman 03:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Make it remove a hex or 2 conditions (Maybe raise ad cost to 4)or this will stay in the shadow of RemSig.

... and signet of malice. 203.217.0.53 06:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Last time I checked, neither of those did any damage. --Semantic 14:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

<sarcasm> More condition removal for the class that has the most amazing condition removal skill ever? Good idea! </sarcasm>--MasterPatricko 10:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

"More condition removal for the class that has the most amazing condition removal ELITE skill ever?"

There. I fixed it for you. The only non-elite skill is Remedy Signet which pales in comparison to Mending Touch or Signet of Malice. Labmonkey 12:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Could be interesting in conjunction with "It's Just A Flesh Wound!" as you wouldnt have to stop attacking for any of the combo - flesh wound + spear get deep wound off imediately.

Best use for this is going to be simply spamming it with Barbed Spear for condition removal every few seconds... which is probably overkill. But still, it's a useful skill I think. Allows you to remove conditions while attacking, without having to stop and cast RemSig or whatever. Barbed Spear fits right into most Paragon builds anyway just for it's ease of use, as long as it's there, this will fit too. -- Jioruji Derako.> 16:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The condition on you is probably blind. -Ensign 20:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem here is that you must hit target foe. with blind u will probobly miss. Thelord23 11:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Just compare this with Remedy Signet... This one requires you to have adrenaline, wield a spear, have a foe in range, cause a condition and then HIT that foe just for the exact same effect Remedy Signet gives you for simply casting it. --84.250.16.99 15:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Remedy Signet has a very low recharge as it is, together with a short casting time for a signet. I think this skill needs something else - either to cannot miss (so it would be useful against Blindness, but it would still be able to be blocked), or to heal the attacker if the enemy is under a condition, or to remove a hex, or to transfer your condition to the target. Erasculio 22:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if there would be a way to word this so it would remove a condition even if it didn't hit? Or maybe remove the condition before it hits. But I'm not sure how that would work, removing a condition before it hits a guy with a condition...

...on that note, an attack that can't miss as long as you're Blind would be awesome. That would bring up a bunch of combos with self-inflicted Blindness of course, but the downside of those combos would be the fact that you can't easily build up adrenaline while blind... -- Jioruji Derako.> 22:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

When I read this one all I could think was "The condition will probable BE blind". I don't PvP paragon much but if it was 5e and removed the condition once it was thrown (without having to hit the target) it would be better. It doesn't do extra damage and it only removed one condition so it's not really that powerful even in that form. Having to build up adrenaline while blind is pointless. Dancing Gnome 04:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Preferably, you'll build up adrenaline for this before you actually get blinded... charge this skill, then just keep it charged until you need it. But yeah, if the condition is Blind (not sure how often a Para gets blinded anyway), then you're stuck with a useless skill... to really be useful as an attack, it needs to be able to remove blindness. Otherwise, there's no reason to use it over one of the many other non-attack condition removers. -- Jioruji Derako.> 04:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

suggestion: Spear of Redemption Attacks target foe and one adjacent foe to your target. If this attack hits a foe suffering from a Condition, you lose one Condition.

That turns this skill into an entirely different beast then; now the condition removal is just a tacked-on bonus, and it's main purpose is as adrenaline gain. I think it just needs some way to remove Blind, and you're set. Otherwise, no reason to bother when you've got RemSig. -- Jioruji Derako.> 02:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, why WOULD you bother using this skill EVEN if it could remove blind? It's still more conditional than Remedy Signet, and you risk actually emptying adrenal from other skills using it if it's dodged, etc. I think the condition removal SHOULD be an extra effect. I wouldn't make it an AOE spear attack (imo this doesn't make much sense), but at least give it some interesting +damage so that it becomes a damage skill with the extra effect of clearing a condition. And since it COULDN'T remove blind, then it's fine that it's just a side-effect. Clearing poison, bleeding and cripple still has its use, and the low adrenal combined with +damage would be the main reason to pick the skill. Atm it's absolutely horrible and i couldn't see myself ever fitting it on any bar. Patccmoi 14:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

The skill in its current form just pales. Spammy adrenal skills are hardly good news, and you can't strip the important conditions off you. I propose a revision: "If this attack hits a foe, you transfer one condition off yourself to target foe." The fact that blind is harder to take off is just something that you have to deal with. If this skill ignores blind, then it becomes better than Signet of Remedy in every way.--Skye Marin 06:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think simply gving it some bonus damage like others were suggesting would give this a real purpose. Give it some progression with Spear Mastery that way too. It doesn't need to be a lot of damage, just a little bit... a spammable adrenal spear attack with some bonus damage makes it worthwhile on any Paragon that actually plans to do some damage with that spear. Anyone who just needs condition removal and nothing else brings RemSig as normal, while all the spear Paras and some of the support Paras bring this along. -- Jioruji Derako.> 07:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I totaly agree remedy is better then this, I'll do some tweaking. ~Izzy @-'---- 18:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It could remove the condition when you use it and transfer it to the foe when the spear hits and maybe cost 5-7 adren. 65.94.86.120 20:02, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Transfering condition might be too powerful with 'It's just a flesh wound!' though. This puts a DW on yourself on demand instantly (you can even use it mid attack since it's a shout), and it would turn this into a low adrenal, very spammable DW attack. And you'd be clearing all conditions from someone at the same time too. Patccmoi 00:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Boo ranged Plague Touch. Horay bonus damage! -- Jioruji Derako.> 02:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

What about putting it in flavour with all the burning paragons can throw around? If you hit a foe that is burning, you are healed for x health or maybe lose an extra condition... if that foe is burning, this skill ignores the effects of blind and cannot be blocked? --Racthoh 08:45, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

If this stays this way it will never be off my bar =D--Diddy Bow 23:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Can't gain Adrenaline while Blinded:

Look guys, this skill requires just 3 charges, most of the cases you'll have it charged, and if you expect a Blind just don't freakin' spam this skill, wait for a proper moment. Beside you forget that not only Blindness prevents hitting, Blocking and Dodging works well too. Skills work if you use 'em properly. Alistair Cookie 06:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

One more thing I'd like to add: Did anyone of you noticed that this is THE best DPS adrenal spear skill? Unless you have an instant Weakness removal each 5 secons /cough Wearying Spear /cough. IAS boosts it enough to make it throw each like 3 to 4 seconds. Alistair Cookie 06:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)