User:Gelbrekt/ArchersSignet and Epidemic

Concept

• I noticed that Archer's Signet stacks with Epidemic to a crazy combination, and when adding a Barbed bow, it gets even crazier. See the testing below.
• Summary (Now 100% sure after extensive testing):
  • The barbed bow is bugged; it increases the bleeding duration not by 33%, but by 33% and one bonus second.
  • AFTER this BUGGED increase, Archer's Signet doubles whatever the new duration came to.
  • The conditions applied to adjacent foes by Epidemic is increased in the same way: First the Barbed Bow gives a bugged increase, which is then doubled by Archer's signet. As a result, you end up with CRAZY durations.
  • EXAMPLES:
    • Example 1: A bleeding of 3 seconds is increased to 28 seconds (Factor: 9.33 -> 833% increase in duration).
    • Example 2: A bleeding of 10 seconds is increased to 76 seconds (Factor: 7.6 -> 660% increase in duration).

TESTING - How is the duration determined?

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• (Note: The test below have not been made in chronological order.)

QUESTION - Does Epidemic reapply the conditions with equal time if the adjacent foes are ALREADY affected by the conditions?

• TEST: Apply 3 seconds of bleeding, then use epidemic to spread it to target 2, and then use epidemic again on target 1.
  • ESTIMATION: The second target gets 28 seconds of bleeding, reduced to 23 from the cooldown of epidemic. Then Epidemic spreads again with 23s base time, i,e 23*1.33+1 = 31.59 = 32 -> 64 seconds. I.e the target should have roughly 480-64*6=96 [save from the damage inflicted by the bow, which is low since marksmanship is 0]
  • RESULT: 60 health left. WHAT??? Even more than expected?? Well. The answer to the question is clearly: "Yes."

Tests with NO MODIFIERS.

• MULTIPLE tests show that the duration lasts longer than stated, ASSUMING that the bleeding condition deals 6 damage per second. According to these tests, bleeding deals 8 damage per second???
  • TEST: Initial duration: 3 seconds Hunter's Shot
    • RESULT: 4 seconds.
  • TEST: Initial duration: 3 seconds Barbed Arrows
    • RESULT: 5 seconds.
  • TEST: Initial duration: 4 seconds Hunter's Shot
    • RESULT: 5 seconds.

• TEST: Signet of agony on self.
  • RESULT: 150 damage -> Bleeding dealt 6 damage per second.

• TEST: Is a suit of 100 armor killed with 60 seconds of bleeding? RESULT: NO, Bleeding clearly deals 6 dps

• INSIGHT: The POISONOUS BOW apparently ALSO increases bleeding duration due to a bug!!!
  • Hunter's shot and Barbed Arrows is clearly increased from 3 to 4 seconds when using the bow!
  • RESULT FROM MULTIPLE TESTINGS: The Poisonus bow increases the duration of all bleeding by 1 second regardless of duration. The duration of Hunter's Shot, Barbed arrows and Barbed signet were all increased by 1 second.
  • I got final confirmation of this when i tried Signet of Agony while wielding a poisonus bow, expecting it to deal 156 damage [i.e 26 seconds of 6 dps] which turned out to be CORRECT (I also accounted for the health sacrifice of course).

Remaining question - How the hell did we end up with 28 seconds of bleeding below?

• NEW HYPOTHESIS after testing: Hunter's Shot begins at 3 seconds and is increased to 4 seconds PLUS the bugged extra seconds = 5 seconds. This is then increased to 10 seconds by Archer's Signet.
  • TEST RESULT: 10 seconds. CORRECT.
  • BASED ON THIS RESULT: The 10 seconds of bleeding is then increased by 33% -> 13 seconds PLUS the BUGGED EXTRA SECOND -> 14 seconds, which is then Doubled by Archer's Signet since it AFFECTS Epidemic, causing the final duration to be 28 seconds. THE MYSTERY IS SOLVED.

• FINAL TEST: Apply bleeding that is JUST ENOUGH to not kill a dummy in Isle of the Nameless.
  • HYPOTHESIS: 10 seconds of bleeding, should be enough per the following logic:
    • 10 -> 14 [10*1.33 + 1] -> 28. Then epidemic is used: 28 -> 38.2 ≈ 38 [28*1.33 + 1] -> 76. I.e: A Barbed Arrows (10 second duration) that is shot on a dummy, followed by an epidemic, should cause 456 damage to the second dummy (24 health left).
  • RESULT: CORRECT!

TESTS

Are all weapon modifiers bugged?

• HYPOTHESIS TO TEST BASED ON THE TEXT ABOVE: Weapon modifiers that affect condition duration increase the condition itself by 33%, while ALSO increasing all conditions by 1 seconds.

• TEST: Signet of Agony while wearing a barbed bow.
  • HYPOTHESIS: 25*1.33+1 = 34.25 -> 34 seconds.
  • RESULT: 204/6 damage/bleedingDPS = 34 -> CORRECT!!

• TEST: Does a Poisonous bow increase duration of ALL other conditions by 1 second?
  • RESULT: NO, it does not increase the durations from Withering Aura, Throw Dirt, or Mark of Fury

• TEST: What about DEGEN?
  • RESULT: Nope, tried several skills, none applied.

• • Does the 33% + 1 apply to Poison skills as well?
  • Does NOT seem so; Apply Poison was only increased from 3 -> 4 seconds (not 5 like barbed arrows and hunter's shot!). Also, the burning from Burning Arrow was not increased.

• CONCLUSION: I am leaving this topic for now, but it is interesting to look into more how exactly the weapon modifiers are bugged (they are clearly bugged based on the tests above)!

Tests only with Barbed bow. TEST: The increase from the bow is 40%, not 33%.

• TEST: Initial duration: 10 seconds.
  • RESULT: 14 seconds (tested twice).

• TEST: Initial duration: 12 seconds.
  • HYPOTHESIS: 12*1.4 = 16.8, rounded up to 17 seconds.
  • RESULT: 17 seconds.

• TEST: Initial Duration: 13 seconds. TEST: does it always round up ? ANSWER: No.
  • HYPOTHESIS: 13*1.4 = 18.2 -> 19 seconds.
  • RESULT: 18 seconds.

• TEST: Initial duration 3 seconds. LACKS EXPLAINATION: Sometimes the number gets rounded up, and sometimes not.
  • RESULT: 5 seconds.

Tests with Archer's Signet (+100%)

• TEST: Initial duration 3 seconds.
  • RESULT: 8 seconds.

Tests with Archers Signet (+100%) + Barbed Bow (+33%) + Epidemic (100%)

• TEST: Initial Duration: 3 seconds.
  • HYPOTHESIS:
    • ASSUMTION 1 (Additively): First the default duration is increased by 133% : 3*2.33 = 7. Epidemic is then used to increase it again: 7*2.33 = 16.31 seconds.
    • ASSUMTION 2 (Cumulative): FIRST: 3*2*1.33 = 7.98 -> 8. THEN (Epidemic): 8*2*1.33 = 21.28
  • RESULT: 168 damage -> 28 seconds. -> WHAT THE ACTUAL F???
  • EXPLAINATION: ???

Questions

• Does expertise affect the duration?
  • Does not appear to be the case, and this would have been known on the wiki if it had been the case.

EXPERIMENTING/TESTING - How could a build be set up

• EXPERIMENT 1: Assume 8+1 Marksmanship (to deal damage with bow, and have basic duration) as well as 0+1 Wilderness Survival. NO Poisonous bow is used (since just 1 shot on the longbows are used).
  • RESULT: First target left with 71 health [409 damage] (including the damage from the bow). Adjacent target died [480+ damage].
  • THIS MEANS that minimum marksmanship and Wilderness survival is ENOUGH since the Luxon Longbows (as well as JQ NPCs) only have 330 helath.

Builds

General skills to use

• NOTE: Since the build restricts the character to a Ranger/Mesmer, and since only conditions are interesting here, the amount of applicable skills are relatively small.
  • It certainly IS possible for other professions to inflict conditions, which are then spread by a ranger with epidemic, however this will not be done twice since the ranger only uses 1 (not 2) skills in this case.

• ALSO NOTE: Because the condition duration can be increased by MORE THAN FOUR TIMES, it becomes interesting to use skills with LOW attribute points, since this frees up attribute points for other purposes.

• POISON:
• Poison Tip Signet - Far superior to Apply Poison; it has no energy cost, short cast time, and much longer duration. Also it is not a preparation, allowing the use of other preparations.
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• BLEEDING
  • Hunter's Shot - Most likely the best result.
  • Barbed Arrows - Might be good if going heavy for Wilderness Survival, but Hunter's shot seems like a safer bet.
  • Screaming Shot - Deals some more direct damage than hunter's shot, but has a shorter duration, so not likely good.

• BURNING:
  • Flame trap is the only non-elite skill to use here, and it is not viable for this build.

TAKING OUT LUXON MONK:

• Savage Shot - Useful Against the Monk, as well as the Commander's Troll Unguent.
• Whirling Defense - Lasts a long time even at low expertise, which could allow for some significant damage.
• Focused Shot - Fitting since other skills are not neessary once bleeding and Daze has been applied.
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OTHER:

• Pin Down -> Potentially devastating agaginst players outside the fort, since it massively slows them down due to the (increased) long duration.
• Snare Barbed Trap -> Similarly to Pin down; Great for slowing enemies down; however i suspect Pin Down is more reliable.
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GROUND MODEL

• 2-3 Expertise is needed in order for archer's signet
• 8+1 Marksmanship is RECOMMENDED in order for the bleeding to be long enough, as well as to deal bow damage.
• Wilderness survival is not required.

	Elite				File:.jpg	File:.jpg	File:.jpg	File:.jpg

Focused on Capturing Green mine as well

	Elite

Optionals.

• See the list above

Pure Wilderness Survival

• 3+1 Expertise
• 12 Domination Magic
• 15 Wilderness Survival

	Elite

• USEAGE:
  • Take out the luxon camps with Apply Poison.
  • Use the Domination Magic to take out the Luxon Monk
    • Equip a bow to apply the poison, and then

• ASSUMPTION: IF the Poisonus Bow is bugged (Which i BELIEVE it is, but haven't tested yet), the duration should be sufficient at 15 Wilderness Survival to kill the luxon longbows:
  • 15*1.33*2*8 = 319.2. This is the DEFAULT duration. if it is bugged, it would be (approx): (15*1.33+1)*2*8 = 335.2, which is enough to kill the luxon Longbows, meaning that Hunter's Shot is not necessary.
  • NOTE: This means that Epidemic isn't needed; apply poison can be used instead.

Build 1 (not tested atm)

• 10+1 Expertise
• 11+2 Wilderness Survivial -> NOTE: Major rune can be worth it, since it increases Natural Stride to 8 seconds, and Troll Unguent to 10 pips.
• 11 Marsksmanship

	Elite

BUILD IDEA

• Captures the orange and Purple mines with a single shot.
• Should be able to capture the green mine through Concussion Shot on the monk, and surviving the attacks by precasting Troll Unguent and then following up with Natural Stride.
• Lacks Antidote signet, but this should be fine since:
  • You are not going to be crippled much due to just firing a single shot + Epidemic on the luxon longbows, as well as blocking their pin down with Natural Stride.
  • Many players trying to fight you will have a tough time since they will be shot with:
    • 32 second Cripple [(12+4)*2]
    • 52 Second Bleeding
    • 38 sec Poison [Base duration 14 sec].
  • Players that you can't fight head on (e.g blindness) can be escaped with Natural Stride.

• REMEMBER: If getting 2 players near each other: Use Pin Down + Epidemic and a Crippling bow. The second target will get 32*1.33*2 -> 86 seconds of cripple (not 85, because of rounding)!

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