User talk:8765/Nerf Buff List/Archive 1

lol gl with that i think 90% is cr4p, tho i must agree with some oris rhy 14:49, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

yeh, again, trollshit. — Skuld 12:36, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Just mentioning, some of the skills you list that needs Buffs, are USED AND ABUSED. (Ex:Shield of Deflection -Very common in GvG ect)Readem (talk*contribs) 18:47, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

"some individuals are locked into a single mindset for this game." - this statement of yours ironically describes your whole article. You have some good points, but there are lots of weird things here... lowering Warriors axe/sword DPS? buffing balanced and useful skills like Empathy, Tiger Stance and Draw Conditions? In fact, most of this stuff makes no sense at all. --Deadly Lollipop 06:12, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

"...there's no way you could possible read through the entire list and understand all the changes." --8765 12:19, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

^Which is, incidentally, my biggest problem with that page. What is unreasonable, rather than simple comprehension, is hoping to talk about every skill on the page, or expecting a blanket statement to cover the everything. I'll give you that people genererlly generalize more than they should ( ;) ), but I think you take the wrong tact when you decide to insult the entire community ("It would seem certain communities lacks comprehension skills...").

There are some skill balances I like, eg TPiY!, Help Me!. There are some proposals whose sentiments resonate, but I can't entirely agree with. And there are some that edge beyond my notions of sensibility.

Take Revive Animal: Reduce cd to 0 sec, change to "Resurrect all allied animal companions within earshot..." One party member carries this, and every party pet is, more or less, unkillable (the only draw being it still takes 6s to cast). I think you need some cooldown, and either the range needs to stay at about nearby, or the amount of health upon revive needs to be significantly lowered--say, 10..35% (or perhaps with a maximum amount of health it can provide, distributed to those pets rezed). Or perhaps it could only resurrect one at a time (no other changes).

Chaos Storm: Increase cast to 2 sec, change to "...adjacent to this location suffer 5...12 damage and loses 1...5 energy each second." The unconditional (ignoring location) AoE energy loss seems a bit high. Perhaps 0..2 per second with an additional 2..4 when casting? +/- a point or two here and there?

Ether Lord: Increase duration to 5...29 sec. Transfering 35 energy over 35 seconds from a monk? Limiting him to a single pip? All for 5 energy? For that kind of duration, I'd expect 1 pip (perhaps without your own energy crashing in the exchange). Malaise and Wither were taken down to 1 pip, but I don't see you complaining about them.

Flashing Blades: Reduce energy to 5. Perhaps personal preference, but I love it even at 10e (PVE). Depending on the zone, it can make my 'sin sturdy enough to get in there and stay in there. --Bob III at 00:06, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

• Revive Animal- This skill was meant for 1-man pet res'er, but is otherwise a terrible skill for doing so. Comfort Animal currently keeps your pet from tasting the soil for long. At reasonble BM, the new Revive animal would have the same downtime as the current Comfort animal.
• Chaos Storm- It still has a massive cooldown, and it's nearly instantly countered by moving out of range.
• Ether Lord- Malaise & Wither deal dmg upon zero energy, which is the key to those skills. Ether Lord mesmers will be pretty much useless if the monks are even remotely prepared. Losing all energy for a mesmer is a heavy gamble.
• Flashing Blade- So you want me to nerf it instead? Flashing is semi-conditional, and elite to boot. But, its block is already as high as it should be, and it's continous. On top of all that, Flashing was added to the list a long while ago. There are a lot of skills and a lot to look through.

--8765 01:02, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

• Revive Animal - Comfort Animal takes a skill slot, one second, and ten energy per pet to rez, and does so with less health. Normally. Your proposed change would make it a Charm Animal with the heal attached, but no rez, making it harder to keep the pet off the ground. Until you mod the Revive Animal, making something of a wolf MM that walks into battle with a full army, with unlimited corpses and a few other benefits, not the least of which is having 6 skill slots remaining.
• Chaos Storm - Instantly countered? Only if you use it in the worst situation it could be used in -- no snare, kd, area control, time pressure, or desire to finish an action. And you would get 1-2 hits on anything but a moving target(s). But if you don't like it, what about a different approach: 10e/1c/15cd, with, again, so 0..2 of the conditional energy drain shifted to unconditional?
• Ether Lord - But Malaise & Wither don't give energy regen. I also addressed the energy crash, and I might add Ether Lord approaches becoming a ridiculous E.Management skill at 35 seconds, 3pts. +30 energy over 35 seconds every 21-22 seconds? Assuming it stays on--but, of course, such things can be influenced.
• Flashing Blades - I never said to nerf it. I just don't think it needs a buff, from a PVE POV. --Bob III at 18:10, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

• Revive- Now you have to look at the bigger picture, and this is talking about the new BM skills. Comfort no longer resses, but with that skill alone you can take your pet. Charm can now rez your pet, and still bring it along. Revive brings support for the whole party of pets, but you still need at least Comfort to bring your own pet. In essence, the time that it takes to res a pet has not changed, but in a team with pets, they are not penalized by wasted skill slots from Charm.
• Chaos Storm- Chain kd's are difficult to keep up, snares are viable but won't last long, and body-blocking is mostly hit-or-miss. Adjacent AoE is pretty small, and it's very difficult to keep more than 1 person inside it. Otherwise, Chaos Storm is doing what it should be intended to do, distrupt or cause a great deal of punishment.
• Ether Lord- "Malaise & Wither deal dmg upon zero energy, which is the key to those skills." Stop trying to compare Ether Lord to Malaise+Wither. Plus, you only get the +3 once you dump in 12 or more inspiration. That's a lot higher than most mesmers usually put into inspiration. Any judicious team will quickly recognize it's weaknesses. Regardless, the old Ether Lord is a losing gamble, while the new has at least some return on the gamble.
• Flashing- But no one uses it PvP, so it's worth giving any extra incentive to use it.

--8765 12:46, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

Only two things I'm going to talk about. Crits against moving targets: It's only if you hit them in the back. IMO, if you hit someone in the back, it should have a higher crit chance anyway. Guaranteeing it against a moving target is still realistic - it's a lot easier to hit someone's spine and/or neck if you can get them from behind when they're running (and not paying attention to defending themself). Sword/axe swing times: That would kinda radically overpower any cast time attacks warriors have for those two weapons. Also, you can't swing a sword or axe as fast as a pair of daggers, assuming you have at least 1 dagger mastery. Not only that, but warriors are supposed to be DPS - but I've never heard of someone competent dying to a bunch of warrior auto-attacks, whereas once an ele starts using his skills on you you're in a world of hurt. Eles are for spike and AoE, warriors are for pressure, plus some spike capacity with skills like eviscerate and executioner's chop - but have you ever heard of a team with six warriors running around spiking targets? You do hear about teams with six eles running around spiking targets. Eles are superior spikers to compensate. --Armond Warblade (talk) 15:03, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, hitting someone in the back should hurt more. But, you're swinging in the direction they're running. You're applying force in a direction same as the momentum; your net force (from the ground frame of reference) is lessened. While you may be hitting them in the back, you're hitting them with less force.

In anything, eles are only marginally better spikers. Evi+exe is practically equal in dmg and effectiveness as 2x 140 dmg spikes (from several combinations of lightning magic spells). Warriors have an advantage of being able to pressure the monks' healing, and then spike when the monks can't respond. Eles would only be able to spike, and hope for the best. Eles have been shifted into a support role, where other classes could be substituted in their place (and possibly do the supporting even better). Some of the ele skills changes would strength their offensive role. Wars, while fairly versatile in offense, are very bland when it comes to actual builds used and seen in-game. Their skill changes aim to bring out lesser used skills, possibly bringing out a fresh technique to playing wars. For both these classes, such changes start with their elites. There should not be any elites that are considered poor or inferior when compared to other elites in all situations. --8765 18:34, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

I suggest changing Natural Stride so that instead of ending when you receive a new enchantment or hex, it ends if under the effects of an Enchantment or Hex. Wouldn't make a WHOLE lot of difference, but for hexers and Conjure Rangers it will make enough of one --Gimmethegepgun 19:10, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

The point of natural stride is a reusable block stance. However, compared to whirling defense, stride has 25% less blocking, but overall, will be active around 40-50% of the time (whereas whirling is only a third of the time). On top of all that, it gets 33% speed boost. The enchant/hex situation isn't relevant for blocking since an enchantment is probably in your favor, and hexes put on you are likely to be anti-attack hexes (which if you're using stride, you're probably on defense already). This is one of those skills which isn't truly overpowered, but rather there's no other skills that can match up to it for its purpose. The nerf is to deter ppl from using it so often, but not enough to actually kill its use. I'm currently looking into ways to improve some of the other rng stances. --8765 20:16, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, with how it ends when you become hexed or enchanted, if you want to keep it off using hexes, only a few of them like WW and PBond can even come close to it, but then you have to deal with them trying to get away from you anyway, and doing it better due to movespeed during cast time, and with the cast time and aftercast they pretty quickly get away. If it ends while you are enchanted or hexed, then 1 PBond will put it out of commission (and might force some of those BA noobs to rethink their strategy or bring hex removal) --Gimmethegepgun 21:11, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Parasitic alone is enough to counter natural stride. Plus, parasitic is a must for any hex stacking necro. The end upon becoming hexed/enchanted is enough drawback for that situation. --8765 13:57, 17 July 2007 (CDT)