User talk:The Sins We Die By/Archive 2

Profession Standards For GvG

It seems a few people think Prophecies was perfect and that everything after made the game suck; even though I completely disagree, I get that those people hate everything about the other campaigns. Their problem is that the skills and professions are staying, so let's work this out. Give your opinions on capabilities and limitations to help better define the guidelines for balanced professions in GvG. Keep skill balance to a minimum, focus on concept balance. What do you think the standards should be for each of the 10 professions? Don't write that they shouldn't be in the game, we know some people hate them. Enjoy the discussion.

• Warrior
• Ranger
• Monk
• Necromancer
• Mesmer
• Elementalist
• Assassin
• Ritualist
• Paragon
• Dervish

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→ moved from User talk:Isaiah Cartwright

Here's Your Solution to Making 4 Man Arenas Fun Again

1st fix syncing, or don't like it's been. More importantly take a hint from FPSs like counterstrike or wolfenstein. Give players options before a match starts. Queque a visual showing the opposition, give an extra 10 seconds before a match starts, and give people an extra prep bar where they can have 4 or so skills they can swap in and out before the match begins. The rest of my problems with ANet and Guild Wars can be found here. ~>Sins WDB 03:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

"This does not appear to be a question for Isaiah, rather a game suggestion, which belongs ArenaNet:Guild Wars suggestions." Vili 03:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

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The images you have recently uploaded have not been named correctly. User images should be named as follows: Image:User username description.extension. For example: Image:User The Sins We Die By Mira Of Fox.jpg. I will move your incorrectly named images but please name future images correctly. Thank you.- TheRave (talk) 21:00, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

So, just to clarify

If you feel there is no power creep in GW, that means you either think that deep wound on everyone forever, nobody on your team can cast, and deep wound whenever you need it forever are either not overpowered compared to the proph/factions meta a year and a half ago, or are not powerful enough to be consequential. Confirm/deny. --75.71.65.101 19:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Power Creep Implies that the game is out of balance. As far as I can tell skills from prophecies such as RC + RoF, D-Shot + Savage Shot, Ele Attune Skills, and other skills have gone through minimal changes over the years and maintained their effectiveness. In addition since there have been 3 additions to GW since prophecies and skills from those have similar situations. However I deny that the list of skills you offer are not overpowered bcs several of them are. Necro and mesmer skills have always been that way. Tease is more of an issue with heroes than actual balance problems. But hexes all in all are and have been over powered as long as I can remember. Wounding Strike is one of those skills I feel somewhat indifferent too bcs of how amazing condition removal is, but it is a ridiculous recharge. My point of power creep being irrelevant still stands bcs it is somewhat necessary to encourage skill changes and overpowered mechanics havent changed throughout GW life.~>Sins WDB 20:55, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Your definition of power creep is off. That article could practically be a timeline of GW history. And yes, the game is out of balance. There's much more damage, healing, and protection available on every team now than there was two years ago. The reason that the skills you've listed are still effective is because they were used as baselines to judge against for every other skill. Attunes haven't lost (much) power because nothing's tried to replace them and ele skills are so savagely expensive that they're required. RoF has lost power, it's completely fallen out of the metagame because it doesn't matter much anymore if you RoF one Executioner's Strike when there's a Burning Arrow, Hunter's Shot, Savage Shot, Agonizing Chop. Distracting Strike, Freezing Gust, and Pain of Disenchantment right behind it. And as an anecdote, when was the last time you heard someone (skilled) discuss nerfing DW? That used to be pretty common (IIRC) in the early Nightfall days, but now nobody cares because the numbers have gotten so much bigger everywhere else. ---75.71.65.101 21:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how its out of balance. Defense + offense measure up to be pretty equal. Again as I said power creep is irrelevant, to this game, bcs its not out of control and the encouragement to skill modification it adds. It's just not enough to warrant a declaration that GW is broken. You don't see teams of similar skill winning bcs of luck or bcs they got a gank off first. The defensive tactics are balanced too well against the offensive ones. Power creep occurs in any game that is updated over time, but it only becomes an issue if a game loses balance. Guild Wars GvG as a whole is not out of balance as many people want to say, which is really the core argument of all this. Hexway is as far as I'm concerned bcs you HAVE to build around it. Again proof of the balance is in the diversity of backlines + frontlines, which is why I hold firm to my argument that power creep is irrelevant in the games current state.

As a sidenote though Ele's have been drastically upgraded in effectiveness with the change to Aura of Restoration. That is something to look at. For now my feelings on it are 30 second recharge (similar to rits and spirit strength).~>Sins WDB 22:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The problem with big defense and big offense is that builds can pack a lethal spike into fewer spaces, leaving even more slots for defense (see the spike meta that existed until PRage). And all that does is change the game so, to paraphrase Ensign, it becomes a battle of trying to penetrate their nine layers of defense with your flurry of interrupts, which isn't fun. Also, diversity isn't necessarily a sign of healthiness. The healthiest period of GW was probably back when everyone was running two gale warriors, two blackout cripshots, an eprod runner, and two boonprots. --75.71.65.101 22:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I see it differently. Having Blind, Block, 50% anti melee hexes (blurred vision, faintheartedness), 20AL buffs, and snares means you have to make the most out of your utility. Trying to punch through several lines of defense is one method yes. But its more effective to use a draw, interrupt a key skill, temporarily disable a key skill, knock down a target, etc. You may notice that most of the dmg from a majority of team builds comes from simple attacking, the exception being caster classes (who do minor dmg from wanding as well, but primarily rely on skills for dmg). Criticals from these attacks are where most dmg comes from relative to other sources, because of automatic max dmg X 1.41. The reason you are seeing more effective team spikes is because one players have come a long way and two multiple sources off dmg means shutting down 1 person doesn't have as great an effect. So like I said you have to rely on utility to gain advantage. FYI I am against skills like blackout and Diversion (bcs of its conditional duraiton), this takes away from more skillful methods of utility.~>Sins WDB 05:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that rawrspike can be beaten with superior utility? That's patently untrue, look at the outcomes of the last however many monthlies, then look at the ladder. Are you saying autoattacking can somehow put any real damage through that kind of defense web? 'Cause it can't, that's kinda the point of a defense web. Clarification please? --75.71.65.101 05:55, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

rawr wins bcs of their superior skill more than their team build. Their offense before the update that started the rediculous 10 second disables was defense disabling, elemental damage, snaring and attacks (melee + bow). Now given that they run cold elemental dmg that is lessened due its use on a mesmer, and lighting elemental dmg that has no armor penetration bcs its on a rit. It's clear that most of their dmg does in fact come from melee and bow. So how were they able to drop other teams mimicing their tactics of defenses (blind, block skills, snares, blurred vision), its simple they are just plain better than everyone else. That's why they win so much, bcs they understand the brute force melee applies and with the PR change that made them all the more effective bcs that is their primary source of dmg. So yes "rawrspike" can be beaten by superior utility as they in fact do it themselves. They interrupt and KD to open a window of time to get their spike off. They use snares and KDs to make a target easy to hit. They would use mark of insecurity to insure they're target was defensless then spike. It was much more than simply 123spike. After the MoI nerf they went back to Hidden Caltrops which was promptly nerfed. Actually this has be suspiciuos now reflecting on all this. Since rawrs little rebellion in the tourny a month ago things have been directly effecting their style of play... but enough conspiracy theories. Btw yes i am saying auto attacking does real dmg. In fact it does lots of it bcs of the auto critical to foes running away. With snares, ims', and ias' they become even more powerful. Don't you think 50-60 dmg a second from an axe will get to a team the longer a match wears on, then there's the hammer which is higher. Then the ranger which had AL ignoring dmg with RtW + attack skills and perma 33% IAS (more evidence that ANet is hating on rawr bcs they are complaining about the tie breaking system that resulted in rawr getting an epic loss a month and a half ago).

To recap and answer your questions simply. Yes rawrspike can be beaten through utility, utility is what wins in this game. Yes I am also saying auto attacking does dmg through webs of defense, thanks to 1337 monking. My clarification is above and if you don't believe my explanations try watching some more GvG specifically rawr if they show up soon and see exactly what they do. I want to see what they do bcs several skills of their team build have been nerfed, so I'm wondering what changes they may make. ~>Sins WDB 09:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with you, my obsing generally backs me up. Not much else to talk about, I guess. --75.71.65.101 04:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)