ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Dervish/Crippling Victory

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Prokiller88's Discussion

I disagree that this skill should be nerfed in any way. The only thing Dervishes have going for them as far as utility goes is Cripple. Warriors have less effective Cripple skills but Stonefist Insignia + knockdown skills. If a Warrior had a non-elite Cripple skill that was this good their movement control ability would be too strong between the cripple and knockdowns.

Edit: I guess I didn't read your suggestion. I'm confused. From your issue statement, you make it sound like you want this skill nerfed. Well anyway, I don't think it should be buffed or nerfed. It's a solid cripple skill that's easy to use. --TimeToGetIntense 09:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The thing to remember with this skill is the bonus damage applies to up to three targets, as does the cripple. -- Armond Warblade 18:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I have looked at other skills that cause cripple and none of them do that much damage. Suggestion: Increasing the Damage to +10..22..25

wtf? --Cursed Angel 18:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Lern to engrish. His grammar's perfectly fine. -- Armond Warblade 19:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

His argument is that this skill should get bonus damage because other cripple skills don't but that doesn't make sense when it already has bonus damage.--Underwood 19:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

"Much" is a synonym of "amount". Replace the two and it'll make perfect sense; therefore, there's nothing wrong with it. The problem is people generally assume "much" means "many", because we don't tend to think of the sentence "how much did you spend"?

His argument is actually that this skill gets less bonus damage than other cripple skills. I thought this was obvious, myself, but I guess not. It's like that because it's a far easier condition to achieve and it hits three targets instead of one. -- Armond Warblade 20:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok what cripple skills have bonus damage that people actually use in GvG?--Underwood 20:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Leaping Mantis, if anything... But I'd argue that other professions get less damage to go with their cripple because they have so much more utility. -- Armond Warblade 20:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

his argument if i didn't get it wrong is "I have looked at other skills that cause cripple and none of them do that much damage" but his suggestion is a buff to the damage "Suggestion: Increasing the Damage to +10..22..25" , that just fail at balancing a skill that already cause enough damage. --Cursed Angel 20:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

You're wrong. I just explained this. -- Armond Warblade 20:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Most of the skills that cause cripple doesn't add Damage, there goes that argument? --Cursed Angel 20:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Did you even read my grammar lesson? Cause that's what's causing all the confusion. Whether or not the dude was right isn't what I'm trying to point out, I'm trying to point out that how we're interpreting his argument is wrong. -- Armond Warblade 20:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Crippled, read through the skills that cause damage and see that you interpreted him wrong, this skill actually cause more damage than the other cripple causing skills and thats what he wrote. therefore im wondering why he want to add more damage cuz that argument he have fail, ure better than me in english but search facts before. --Cursed Angel 20:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Cursed Angel--Underwood 20:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Compare it to drunken/desperation blow, to be fair other skills that cause cripple need their damage increased. Prokiller88 22:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Those two are oddballs; you can't even rely on getting a condition you need. I think you simply underestimate the power of cripple. -- Armond Warblade 22:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Comparing it to deep wound it's relatively weak. Prokiller88 22:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it's not. Cripple far overpowers deep wound. Deep wound doesn't let you stick to a target and pressure them because they can't do anything about it, it just helps on a spike. -- Armond Warblade 23:16, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

DW is free 100ish damge, don't underestimate it.

Believe me, I'm not. But a free 100 damage (that's where it caps) verses the ability to land another five hits on a guy? Which am I going to choose? (Oh, yeah, and there's no reason those five hits can't cause deep wound on their own.) Anti-kiting is good. -- Armond Warblade 18:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

For a dervish you only have 2 attack skills that cause cripple and 2 that cause deep wound. There are only 2 bars I would use this skill in which are dwayna and grenth. Melandru is deadly enough without it. Most dervish bars have 4 attack skills, 2 of which is common in all of them, which is eremites and chilling victory then a deep wound which would be pious or weary, that last attack is either wild blow or a good damage skill. Now, have you seen anyone in hb,ha, or gvg use this skill at all? Prokiller88 21:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

lol. No. --Readem 23:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Those are all really bad examples. HB you teleport around instead of crippling the other guys, HA is small enough that you can just bodyblock if you need to (or switch targets, lolwut), and GvG you have a cripshot or snare ele. For a derv snare, this is really good - use it with Melandru and Wearying (because pious is pointless on wearying when you can get the same thing with no drawback and faster recharge) and you've got yourself a solid bar. The thing is that dervs don't need to cripple much (especially balth dervs, who have their own speed boost). -- Armond Warblade 23:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Proves my point, they all over look this skill. Prokiller88 13:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Did you even read what I wrote? No matter how good this skill gets, people will always rely on the cripshot for cripple - until it gets to the point where this does insane damage, in which case the cripple will be a nice side effect and it'll be used as a spike skill. -- Armond Warblade 21:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

So you just want to stick with what you know and not try something new? Ok, don't increase the damage but drop the recharge. The game needs to change to let other builds besides freeze eles and rangers to carry the snares. I personally just want more options when it comes to making a build and try something new. Why don't you do the same thing? Prokiller88 23:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

This is Guild Wars, not Build Wars. --Readem 23:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

What don't you understand about ranged snare >>>>>>>>> melee snare? It doesn't matter how awesome this is snare-wise because so long as ranged snares are viable they will be used over this. -- Armond Warblade 01:41, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

No, if this was build wars it would be atleast somewhat more fun to make builds, and yes I do understand the ranged snare > melee snare. I guess this game isn't controlled by players at all. Prokiller88 05:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

If it makes you feel better, I see this a lot in RA, AB, and FA, where you can't guarantee that you'll have any other kind of a snare. -- Armond Warblade 21:27, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

This game is not based around the lower arenas. I just want more choices to make a gvg team besides the basic balanced or sin split or whatever else people are running today. Prokiller88 22:52, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, you're not going to get melee cripple to be worth anything in those builds. -- Armond Warblade 23:23, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Never know unless you try. Prokiller88 01:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, actually, you do. It's called brain cells, and logic. Don't risk yet another broken skill in the hopes that the entire GW community will randomly decide to start using melee snares. -- Armond Warblade 10:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Define a "broken skill" I would love to know what you call a broken skill. Prokiller88 19:45, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Melee snares aren't bad, you just have to know when to use your run buffs.

Bear in mind that the cripple on this thing is conditional, although after you've chopped someone with a scythe you should be able to meet it (still, you can't use it as your opening attack as reliably, which is what cripple is best for). I think that a small recharge reduction wouldn't hurt... 6 is probably too low, but 8 should be OK (maybe even 10 if you want to be stingey). 81.107.196.50 16:57, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, the condition on this skill is pretty unreliable unless you're in God Mo-- Melandru Form. Added damage like that of Victorious Sweep would be fair, IMO, because you can't count on coming up against a target with less health than you.

Cripple is a damn nasty condition, especially on a Dervish. Why? Because scythe critical range is insane, and hitting kiting targets is a GUARANTEED CRITICAL. If you cripple a target, you have the ability to hit them another five times for about 100 damage each time, and that's not exaggerated at all. Okay, if you Deep Wound something, it's "100 virtual damage" (it's not damage, it is NOT damage, a Deep Wound is NOT DAMAGE), but 100 health regained as soon as it comes off. Compared to being able to do 100 REAL damage on my next subsequent hits... Well, which would you pick?

But again, the cripple on this skill is very conditional; it's a game of roulette, at best. With that in mind, when compared to other games of chance, this damage just doesn't compare. Raine - talk 02:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)