ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Paragon/HOW-TO:Preventing Stacking
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Signed. Bye bye nublet 8-man paragon teams. 72.235.48.41 23:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Izzy Im sorry to say this but we need to let you go. Spura are you looking for a job? a position just opened up 76.26.189.65 04:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Terrible idea. Paragons are imbalanced, but this mechanical change is doomed to fail. 74.14.106.47 04:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Interesting suggestion. As a paragon player, I like it because I could see the group get continuous benefit from that elite instead of the 1 shot deal, on the other hand I would just spam it instead of waiting until the group looked a little beat up. I don't do GvG so I don't know whether song stacking is such a big deal to require the change though. - Elder Angelus 18:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
- The problem with current implementation is that with several paragons you can bring several copies of Song and Ballad of restoration, effectively accumulating huge amounts of efficient heals. The contribution of SoR and BoR is not limited with paragon's energy, but with recharge, which is overcome by bringing several copies of these 2 skills. With my proposed change bringing multiple same chants would be pointless, since a single copy is active 24/7, making additional copies useless. The efect is spread over time. --Spura 20:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
- Signed. ~Shard (talk) 22:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- Someone get Izzy to look at this. It makes more sense than anything he's ever done to a Paragon skill. RitualDoll 04:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- So you suggest to just make every chant passive? Izzy tries to avoid making things passive, and also tries to make passive defense more active. If not running some gimmick build with many copies of SoR, you have to know when your party needs it and when to use it to make it effective. If you make it passive, it's just button-smashing on recharge. Even with more copies, you have to watch to not let them overlap (by simply using them at the start of a fight and using on recharge). It might be more powerful, but it requires skill to use. That's what GW is all about, skills. It's not about reaching the highest level and beating everything below your level, it's about the most effective use of your skillbar, weapons and positioning. Gimmicks will always show up, you can't prevent it, and sometimes you have to nerf overpowered gimmicks. But, paraway isn't overpowered, if your team has skilled players it can win. So don't QQ about stacking, just learn how you can kill gimmick teams. --Sir Bertrand 17:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
- You probably haven't been paying attention to the changes being done to Paragons. They're not being made "active" they're being made "worthless". Some things need to be passive. If everything was active, this game would be too complicated and no one would want to play it. And not all shouts and chants would need to be made passive, as a lot of them (such as the Zeal chants) are perfectly fine in their current form. So a few skills need to be made more passive to make them viable. I'd rather have something viable, nerfed (all of Spura's changes weaken the total amount of health healed if you haven't noticed) and passive than something like we currently have. Nerfed, active and shitty. RitualDoll 17:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
- First of all. My suggestion doesn't make it any more passive. They are passive now, you just spam chants on recharge without any regard for circumstances. My suggestion doesn't change that a bit. It just denies ability to use several copies of same chant.
- Also you can't have an attacker profession with active defenses. It is just too hard to play. Try playing a paragon build with a few attack skills and single target skills like brace yourself+it's just a flesh wound+signet of synergy etc. It's insanely hard to keep an eye out for enemies to spike with attack skill, remove conditions with It's just a flesh wound and keep an eye out for enemy hammer warrior to place Brace Yourself when he starts his KD chain. Builds that have to target allies and enemies inteligently are impossible to play. Now if paragons had single target shouts that target enemies like warriors do, it would be another story. --Spura 10:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
- Vocal was sologon 76.188.100.220 18:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- So you suggest to just make every chant passive? Izzy tries to avoid making things passive, and also tries to make passive defense more active. If not running some gimmick build with many copies of SoR, you have to know when your party needs it and when to use it to make it effective. If you make it passive, it's just button-smashing on recharge. Even with more copies, you have to watch to not let them overlap (by simply using them at the start of a fight and using on recharge). It might be more powerful, but it requires skill to use. That's what GW is all about, skills. It's not about reaching the highest level and beating everything below your level, it's about the most effective use of your skillbar, weapons and positioning. Gimmicks will always show up, you can't prevent it, and sometimes you have to nerf overpowered gimmicks. But, paraway isn't overpowered, if your team has skilled players it can win. So don't QQ about stacking, just learn how you can kill gimmick teams. --Sir Bertrand 17:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
- Someone get Izzy to look at this. It makes more sense than anything he's ever done to a Paragon skill. RitualDoll 04:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Spura is a genius \o/ ..the best idea for solving the problem with stacking, I hope that Izzy take a look at this =) Pedro vsc 17:02, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
It's been a long time now since Spura posted this, but yes, yes, yes! Why wasn't this implemented earlier? Another great effect that this sort of change would have for the solo paragon is that it would open up skills such as Soldier's Fury, Soldier's Stance, etc. No longer would with "Lead the Way!," "They're on Fire!," and "Can't Touch This!" be the only 3 (mostly) continuous shouts that a single paragon can use to power such skills and make them less conditional or limited to multi-paragon style groups.
Also, as to the concern about Vocal was Sogolon: Sure, the skill could be used to power these up more by extending their length, but that's what it was meant to do. Secondly, the paragon would have to choose to hold a pot of ashes, losing the ability to attack and 16 armor plus other bonuses from his/her spear/shield. It does nothing to promote multiple copies of the skills, either, which was the issue to begin with. Actually, copies are even less needed in such a case.4.88.30.89 17:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
- All this does is make paras more passive than they already are. Aegis was a problem because it was too pasivs, and thats with removals. The proposed change makes paras a class that is completely immune to counters, even more passive than they already are, and dependent on just maintaining skills just like they already are. This doesn't fix any problems and in fact unbalances the game even more. As proof look at Make Haste in HA. There is a reason most enchants don't target all allies. 66.215.83.191 21:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
