ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Vital Weapon

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/agree but recharge should be 3 not 4 :).Great solution imo ^^.Lilondra 09:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer it to be 4 seconds instead of 3 b/c then it would sync too well with WoR and vengeful. Just a little measure to make sure this would not be OP upon introduction. If it turns out to be underpowered then we can talk about buffs, but given that it would return 83 health at 14 attribute points I think is fair. Glad to see some approval though.The Sins We Die By 14:36 28 March 2008 (UTC)

If you take 4 seconds as recharge we might have to buff the duration imo,also the health gain is a extra not the reason while combining it.Sry but Wasting 10 energy on vital and wor seems quite meh if wor will do fine.Yes i realise that if vw is cast first its 5 energy and a nice gain but then again youre not going to recast it until the end of the spike and the target also loses an amount of max health so if they can nearly spike him down with vital on him it wont make much difrence.Lilondra 06:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

O come on it's not like that'll give the rit energy issues (~>Sins (Shadow Steps/GvG Professions)) 13:03, 1 April 2008.

Yes but the advantage is not worth the energy ;-) Its just a nice buff but its not dangerous. Also if the target has 750 health with this.(suggesting the weapon spell has a + of 150 health). And you get the target to 200 with DW then the target WILL lose 75 health because the duration expires and thus youre health cap lowers and thus you lose 150 health you only gain 75 of it back.So no its not dangerous.Lilondra 08:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

So, apparently a 5 energy spell that makes a target virtually invulnerable to a spike for 35 seconds is... bad? To top it off, its spammable and unremovable. To buff this skill would be... not only shortsighted, but very annoying -_-. Look at Ranger Spike in HA if you need a application of it. --Angelic Loki 10:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you're over exaggerating there Loki. The buff might make it good, but it's not going to make much difference to spikes since most spikes carry a little extra damage than needed as a contingency plan. I think it would be a good change, and would see an increase in the use of this skill in many areas. 192.168.1.1 18:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't actually exaggerate at all. To be "Immune" to a spike, all you need to do is give your monks enough time to catch a clean one. Every spike likely carries more then 800 damage, this is true, but they do so to account for Spirit Bond and Armor. If you add extra life on top of that its still possible to spike someone dead through vital, but the monks have to be very bad. Very, very bad. In GvG especially, Spikes aren't meant to kill, but to force the prot monk to drain energy to give the heal monk time to heal the target to full. This skill does with 1 unremovable skill what the whole prot line sometimes cant manage to do in time. The only reason its not used more often is because there isn't a lot of portability in the communing line (its mostly Spirits and such). Right now, really the only 2 used skills from Communing are Vital and Brutal weapons. This skill, however, is a staple for any communing Rt, and any skill thats a staple for a attribute shouldn't require a buff. --Angelic Loki 19:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Your argument should include that spikes are meant to bring down the targets, which is the case in addition to your other, makes your point stronger. In any case communing is by far the weakest line of the ritualist, so calling vital weapon it's staple isn't saying much of anything. Communing is to the rit what beast mastery is to the ranger. The duration does seem to be a bit too long, I will admit, but it being spammable means nothing if the duration were to be shortened to around 15 seconds at attribute 15. Diversion, or a lack of energy would keep a rit from wide spread maintaining it. Spikes are already hindered more by WoR (stopping about 70 dmg) and reversal of fortune (healing for 30+ with DF and stopping up to 140 give or take) than they would be by vital weapon. Those skills are cast much quicker and their effects + recharge allow for a follow up if necessary. Spiking is not the only way a party fights, party pressure is very effective and a temporary health bonus does not stop it. Duration health buffs are a waste of energy against pressure giving the illusion you are in better shape than is the case. Given the revision to duration so it can't be maintained on half a party while not stressing energy this skill might actually see use. ~>Sins WDB 17:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that WoR and RoF are better to catch spike with, but if the spike is clean, then reflex's on the Monk/Rt/N, w/e is healing, wont allow them to catch it. This skill gives them the extra second that they need. As for anti-pressure, you're absolutely right. The skill will give you only about another 20 seconds if you were going to die anyway, but its still 20 seconds where you might turn the tide of battle. Its also a powerful counter to DP, as it can make a DPd target take damage like a non-DPd target. I still dont think that adding the proposed buff would change that, nor do I think it needs to be changed. You USE it as a anti-spike, not a anti-pressure, and its way overpowered for that purpose. It doesn't need to do healing too. Moving it to resto would make communing the smelly armpit of Rts, and it doesn't need that. --Angelic Loki 08:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I dunno Loki, communing is pretty bad already may as well just leave it with spirits. If spirits are reworked maybe it can be salvaged. Anywho if a spike is clean as you say and no prot is going to stop it then this wont stop it either, unless you have it pre cast on the target. Problem with that is maintaining it on a party with the suggested changes would require constant casting. The result of that is you have no net energy gain and it's only being put up on 2-3 allies, plus at a 1 second cast it's simple to DShot or you can try to divert it. As for the heal, it's not covering the entire health buff so energy will still have to be used to cover for the rest of it. The only thing that I find significant at all is the aid to dp, but again with a short duration it will require regular recasting for upkeep. ~>Sins WDB 08:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

It IS precast, all the time, there is no other point. Its not a active prot. Yes, its easily interupted, which is why its not broken. If you add heal on the end of the skill, its worthless since the spell never ends. If you up the recharge you nerf the skill right out of the game, and it joins the rest of the attribute you guys claim sucks. Either way, the skill is currently balanced in what it does, which is allows 3-4 people in your party to be much harder to spike. --Angelic Loki 08:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

The attribute line it's in is awful, if it's moved and does have a useless heal it might be used, it's never used as is now. Why leave it so it so it won't see any action? ~>Sins WDB 18:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It IS used though, its used in Hero's Ascent, and its used in RSpike GvG. Moving it to resto just makes communing more useless then you seem to think it is. Why would we make a bad attrib worse and a good attrib better. So, hold on. Let me get this right. You guys want to: A.) Move attrib, so that you are already specced into it. In other words, you like the skill already, but dont wanna use communing. Yea, Balance exists to make people's lives easier to spec. B.) You wanna add a heal you guys admit is worthless. Yeah.. I dont even think thats worth it. and C.) Change the recast to be marginally longer, which wont affect anything since at best its maintained on 4 people while brutal is on the rest. All 3 points leave me waist deep in poo. Seriously, this is yet another case of me not really having to make the point because Izzy wont buff the skill due to its use in high ranked GvG, but I wanna help you guys see why. --Angelic Loki 09:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't use the skill b/c the attribute line sucks. I want to be able to use it without hindering my specs. You said the heal would be useless, so what's your problem if there is one? I want the recast and recharge changed so that it stresses energy to be maintained and can't be so spammable. I'm curious as to when this started seeing use in GvG, i've not been seen any for 3 weeks almost. ~>Sins WDB 16:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I Champ farmed this weekend, and saw it at least 3-4 times. Its not common, but its definately there. My problems with fixing something thats not broken is just that. Its not broken. If it gave a heal when it ended, that would remove the one thing that can happen badly, which is if the target is low when the spell ends, they usually die. I wont condone (and neither will the skill balancers), moving a skills attrib just because people think communing is bad. The fact of the matter is, Communing has just as many good spells as Channeling. Its just that its effects are more subtle then Channeling. By stripping this spell from communing, you will kill the attribute, as surely as stripping splinter weapon from channeling would kill channeling. There would be no point. As for the rest of the mods, fine. Up the recharge. I've pointed out that it wont matter, but it would make it marginally less powerful at stopping spikes, which would be nice. A move to resto and adding a heal though, its not only bad for the spell, but it upsets the balance of the game. I'm absolutely confident that it will never happen, and I absolutely understand why. That said, if you want to buff the spell, you're welcome to your opinion, but you will have to find another buff. --Angelic Loki 09:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Farming is one of the last thing on my mind, communing has use in PvE, but little to none in PvP. I still don't see these changes being broken in PvP, you can't precast it on but 2 people while being able to maintain it, maybe 3 but not without duration bonuses from spawning. And if you do that it's not ready to use if one of those players is targeted, plus it's a constant stress on energy to do that. Also this is just a health buff, and the healing would be no better than a monk casting Orison of Healing, difference is ones heal is conditional, and like I said it doesnt cover but half the health buff. Hopefully this would get people to apply more pressure damage in addition to spiking, instead of relying so heavily on ganking an opponent. ~>Sins WDB 14:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, I dont mind the nerf to the duration. Being able to hold it on 3 people with an investment in spawning is fine with me. However, I wont condone a move to resto, as adding the healing is not only worthless but against the concept of the skill. Even if it healed for 100 hp, you would only get the benefit from the healing 1/4 of the time unless the whole team was degening. Which means the skill would be even more OP then it is right now, since it not only would stop spikes, it would stop pressure as well. Nobody would buff infuse health to make it stop pressure, same with spirit bond. they are MEANT to stop spikes. Same with this skill. It does what it does very efficiently. It doesn't need to be changed. The recharge is low, yes, but you have to cast it regularly to maintain it, so its dshot diversion fodder. This is really the last post that I'll make on this subject, as we are essentially making the same points over and over again, but I will solidly assure you that unless the proposed "buff" to the skill is changed, the spells wont see the proposed change happen. --Angelic Loki 15:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

guud idee, just taht its used to maintain as a spirits strenght ritu su if u change teh durtration to 15 its making it harder to use as a spirits strenght ritu but makin' it heel wen it ends is guud whit othert wepoon speels so taht is guud --Cursed Angel 15:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps Spirit's Strength does need some alternative weapon spells after all. If this idea is implemented, then perhaps some other weapon spell should have its duration extended and balanced accordingly? 88.202.129.250 19:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Weapon of Aggression is used more these days. --Angelic Loki 13:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Judging by the leetspeak Cursed was joking. Regardless, there is nothing wrong with the skill's functionality (well besides that it's irremovable). It's kep in check by being in a crappy line, and because using it is begging to get it disrupted. It recently saw some play in the spike heavy meta on E/Rt's. It's a metadriven, but not a bad, skill - so it doesn't need a change. Akirai Annuvil 18:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

RESTORATION DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE SKILLS

The Xinrae spells should not have been put in to Restoration, neither should this. RitualDoll 12:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, Restoration does not need more skills - healers dont need half thier skills to remain effective. Perhaps that true Xinrae spells should have stayed in Communing; however I never once used either of them for either arena... Thier function was too -Clunky- and not -Ritsy-. The new functions are an improvement, but the move into Restoration alone gave me incentive to try it out. Xinrae's spells still need a few minor tweaks to make it competive to other Elite-Restoration. Lancy, this version makes me -WANT- to use it! GJ - Is this to make up for the fact that 2-out-3 prot spirits are earshot range? I may just work my ideas for those weapon spells sooner then later. ^_^

--Falconeye 04:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)