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The Problem With Sins[edit]

  • Sins are not overpowered, but they lack variety.
  • Dagger Mastery has too few viable combos.
  • Many skills have ridiculously harsh downsides.
  • These updates would make sin skills smaller in effect and faster/easier in use rather than "Target foe can't do anything...foe like a second." 25e 90recharge.
  • In short, my goal is simply to give sins utility and options, not power.

What a sin build needs but is having trouble getting[edit]

These are absolute necessities. I listed them in order of difficulty to get an effective one of.

  • Snare/IMS
  • Almost no telegraphs (Hints that a spike is coming)
  • Some sort of disabling/debuffing effect (Interrrupts, Daze, KDs)

You might say there are elite snares that are great, and you're right! But let's say I don't want to use that elite. Let's say I want to use Golden Skull Strike. Seems like a great skill...right?

Trying to make an original bar[edit]

In builds where I try to experiment with new skills I run into the problem of similar combos. There are about 4 sin chains that are truly available:

Black Mantis Thrust Black Mantis Thrust

Fox Fangs Fox Fangs

Trampling Ox Trampling Ox

Falling Lotus Strike Falling Lotus Strike

Twisting Fangs Twisting Fangs

Or

Moebius Strike Moebius Strike

Or

Jagged Strike Jagged Strike

Fox Fangs Fox Fangs

Death Blossom Death Blossom

Or (This one is a bit iffy)

Golden Phoenix Strike Golden Phoenix Strike

Horns of the Ox Horns of the Ox

Falling Spider Falling Spider

Twisting Fangs Twisting Fangs

Or

Falling Spider Falling Spider

Horns of the Ox Horns of the Ox

Falling Lotus Strike Falling Lotus Strike

Twisting Fangs Twisting Fangs

Some of these are pretty good, but the problem is trying to get other ones to work with other seemingly viable elites. Not to mention a huge weakness in trying to get the necessities of a sin in a bar. If you try to make other combos work, you're going to have a hell of a time doing it.

Golden Skull Strike Golden Skull Strike

Twisting Fangs Twisting Fangs

Golden Phoenix Strike Golden Phoenix Strike

Blades of Steel Blades of Steel

Great combo right? Try finding any enchantment that truly synergizes with that combo. Some might say go into monk stuff, but that's not synergy. That's just throwing in healing. If we go with conjures we'll never have the energy to get this spike off. 10 energy and no zealous? We also lose quick recharging enchantments. In sin?:

Sharpen Daggers Sharpen Daggers - Doesn't add to the combo. Works like a filler enchantment

Way of the Lotus Way of the Lotus - Ends after the first dual attack. Doesn't finish the combo. Telegraph to vigilant monks.

Way of Perfection Way of Perfection - Doesn't add to the combo. This is also straight healing and doesn't add to the build's purpose of killing.

Critical Defenses Critical Defenses - See above

Assassin's Remedy Assassin's Remedy - This works, but the build is expensive as it is. Also with a long recharge, it getting stripped means you build is gone.

Shroud of Distress Shroud of Distress - See two above.

So only Assassin's Remedy really works with this build. One skill. That's it. Well, what about snare?

Leaping Mantis Sting Leaping Mantis Sting - Great skill, but I need IMS to pull this off. Also, I can't use it mid combo if the monk decides to sit still first. It HAS to be first.

Caltrops Caltrops - Very expensive. 10 energy every 10 seconds is a lot to be throwing out there.

Siphon Speed Siphon Speed - If I get it to work right, I can spike efficiently every 15 seconds. If not, every 30. Pass.

So, if I try Leaping Mantis I'll throw in Dash too right? I also have to lose my res sig or Flurry. /sigh. By flurry! But remember, the spike itself costs 30 energy. Now it's 40. I also have to get my enchantment up. 50. There's no way in hell Leaping mantis can go in there.

So lets think about caltrops aaaaaaand it's 10 energy. Fuck.

...Siphon Speed? Fuck.

Well, let's take out the Assassin's Remedy for Sharpen Daggers. It covers the daze immediately right? Well that's it. And Twisting fangs comes next anyways...Screw it. Sharpen Daggers it is.

So. Now I have this:

Golden Skull Strike Golden Skull Strike

Twisting Fangs Twisting Fangs

Golden Phoenix Strike Golden Phoenix Strike

Blades of Steel Blades of Steel

Way of the Lotus Way of the Lotus

Siphon Speed Siphon Speed

Sharpen Daggers Sharpen Daggers

Resurrection Signet Resurrection Signet

...The hell is that? It's a great combo, but terrible snare and so much set up time before a spike. It's telegraphed and slow. Doesn't even come close to other meta sin builds. If you try to make a build out of almost every other assassin elite out there, you'll run into this problem again and again. There is a lack of good hexes, enchantments and snares for assassins and it pushes them into all running the same three builds (WC, GG and WotA). We need some variance.

Btw, this is the best I've come up with for this elite:


Golden Skull Strike Golden Skull Strike

Twisting Fangs Twisting Fangs

Golden Phoenix Strike Golden Phoenix Strike

Blades of Steel Blades of Steel

Signet of Pious Restraint Signet of Pious Restraint

Grenth's Fingers Grenth's Fingers

Zealous Renewal Zealous Renewal

Resurrection Signet Resurrection Signet

Problem with this, it's still telegraphed. Can't say it's terrible, but compare it to other sin builds, and it hardly stacks up.

Critical Strikes[edit]

Black Lotus Strike Black Lotus Strike Increase energy gain to 5..16.

Lotus strike's only condition is that you do a lead attack before it. This requires a hex. Mind as well make it a bit more worth it.

Dark Apostasy Dark Apostasy - Reduce recharge to 10. Reduce energy cost to 5. Reword to "Your critical hits while wielding daggers remove enchantments. You lose 10..5..4 energy for each enchantment removed in this way.

The ultimate weakness to this skill is the ability to strip it off. Recasting it is costly, even when stacking Critical Strike Critical Strike with Critical Eye Critical Eye. The skill itself is really powerful and really shouldn't be something that ranged weapons should access. I see this as a skill that a sin uses for pressure builds, but a spear sin with this would be a bit much.

Dark Apostasy Dark Apostasy - (PvE) Reduce recharge to 10. Reduce energy cost to 5. Reword to "Your critical hits while wielding daggers remove enchantments. Whenever you remove an enchantment, that foe takes 10..30 damage."

Deadly Haste Deadly Haste - Reduce energy cost to 5. Reduce cast time to 3/4. Reword to "You move 25% faster for 0-9 seconds. This skill is reapplied when you achieve a critical hit."

The current form of this skill is interesting, but with Deadly Paradox Deadly Paradox available, half range builds will go to that for a hard to remove boost. Instead, this would give sins a viable speed boost and an enchantment for spike build requiring that.

Seeping Wound Seeping Wound - Reduce energy cost to 10. Increase casting time to 1. Increase recharge to 15. Reword to "Target foe moves 33% slower and takes 0..12 damage per second while suffering from a condition for 0..9."

Max damage potential of this skill is 12*9 or 108 damage (Instead of 200ish currently). Now both of the effects are conditional and require conditions. At one second, it's much easier to interrupt.

Sharpen Daggers Sharpen Daggers - Reduce cast time to 1/4. Reduce recharge to 10.

This skill doesn't do much anyways. Mind as well make it easier to use and reapply.

Or

Sharpen Daggers Sharpen Daggers - Reword to "For the next 0-10 seconds, you next dagger attack causes crippled for 1..6 seconds."

Now instead of giving conditions we can get pretty easily otherwise, we're opening up new ways to do sin combos.

Sharpen Daggers Sharpen Daggers - (PvE) Reduce cast time to 1/4. Reduce recharge to 10. Reword to "For the next 5..25 seconds, your next 1..7 dual attacks cause a deep wound for 2..9 seconds."

Dagger Mastery[edit]

Desperate Strike Desperate Strike - Increase recharge to 10. Reword to "If you have less than 60..90% health, you deal +5..20 damage and gain 20..80 health."

Instead of it just being something you can't control for extra damage, it's now a fair healing option in dagger mastery. Possibly move it to shadow arts with this idea.

Or on the idea of the warrior skills

Desperate Strike Desperate Strike - Increase recharge to 15. Reword to "Target foe takes +10..30 damage suffers from one of the following conditions: Cripple (10 seconds), Deep Wound (10 seconds) or Bleeding (15 seconds). After this skill is used, you lose 10 energy."

Fox's Promise Fox's Promise - Reduce energy cost to 5. Reduce recharge to 15. Reword to "Your next 1-4 dagger attacks are unblockable for the next 1..20 seconds. You lose the blind and cripple condition."

Smaller effect but gives sins all they really need.

Fox's Promise Fox's Promise - (PvE) Decrease cast time to 1/4. Reword to "You cannot miss with dagger attacks for 2..20 seconds."

Repeating Strike Repeating Strike - Increase recharge to 12. Reword to "Dual Attack. Must follow a dual attack. If this attack hits, you deal +10..30 damage."

This skill encourages play that shouldn't happen. Spam. There is no skill in spam. It's also just not a very good way to pressure someone. Damage isn't usually the best way to pressure someone, it's KDs and hexes and interrupts that really put the pressure on. Instead of being repeating because it repeats itself, it's now repeating because it goes off of another dual attack. Powerful and opens up new combos.

Deadly Arts[edit]

Crippling Dagger Crippling Dagger - Decrease cast time to 1/4. Increase recharge to 8.

1 second cast time on something that requires so much timing is odd and not at all like an assassin.

OR


Crippling Dagger Crippling Dagger - Reword to "Off Hand Attack. If target foe was moving, that foe is crippled for 1..12 seconds. If that foe was not moving, that foe is crippled for 1..4 seconds."

Really, I see this as an opportunity to give sins more options for snare. Good options, not overpowered. Just more. It doesn't have to always snare like this, but even some other requirement (besides hexes) would be nice.

Expose Defenses Expose Defenses - Decrease energy cost to 5. Decrease recharge time to 15. Reword to "If target foe is not standing still or knocked down, they cannot block your attack skills for 1..10 seconds."

If the target runs, they can't block you. If the target stays still, they can't get away from you. It's like a mental snare.

Mark of Death Mark of Death - Decrease energy cost to 5. Reword to "For the next 3..14 seconds, target foe has -10 armor against your dagger attack skills. If this foe dies while effected by this hex, this skill is recharged."

I'll save you the calculations or wiki-ing. -10 armor is the equivalent of taking 120% damage.

Sadist's Signet Sadist's Signet - Reword to "You are healed for 30..60 for each condition on target foe (Max 160).

The most common amount of conditions from an assassin is 2-3 (bleeding, deep wound and poison). So that's 90 health at 0 input and 160 easily at max.

Scorpion Wire Scorpion Wire - Reword to "For 4..10 seconds, the next time target foe is knocked down, you shadow step to their location. All of your non-dagger skills are disabled for 10 seconds."

Plenty of teamwork related ideas for this one. Also for those who insist on using that awful skill, lightning surge works great with this.

Shadow Fang Shadow Fang - Decrease recharge to 20. Decrease energy cost to 5.Reword to "Shadow step to target foe. After 1..15 seconds, you return to your original location and suffer from a deep wound for 15..9 seconds."

45 seconds on a recharge is insane and extremely inactive. The deep wound being after you leave is really awkward because it still needs to be activated. With this, you can put some into deadly arts to choose how long you stay there for with a slight punishment as you leave. Hilariously, you can poof around and use necro skills to transfer a 15 second deep wound on foes.

Shameful Fear Shameful Fear - Decrease energy cost to 5. Decrease casting time to 1/4. Reword to "Target foe is hexed with Shameful Fear for 10 seconds. If target foe is moving, that foe suffers from -1..5 health degeneration. If target foe is not moving, that foe suffers from 1..2 health degeneration."

Works well with Enduring Toxin Enduring Toxin.

Shroud of Silence Shroud of Silence - Decrease energy cost to 5. Decrease recharge time to 20. Reword to "Enchantment Spell. "For the next 1..5 seconds, the next 1..2 spells to target you fail and their caster's spells are disabled for 1..5 seconds."

or

Shroud of Silence Shroud of Silence - Decrease energy cost to 5. Decrease recharge time to 20. Reword to "Hex Spell. "For 1..7 seconds, the next 1..3 spells from allies of that foe targeting this foe are disabled for 1..5 seconds. All of your non-Assassin skills are disabled for 10 seconds."

For the second one, disabling the spells would not effect their success. Just recharge time afterwards.

Signet of Shadows Signet of Shadows - Reduce recharge to 20. Reword to "If target foe is blind, that foe takes 10..50 damage. If that foe is not blind, that foe is blind for 2..8 seconds."

Way of the Empty Palm Way of the Empty Palm - "For 5..20 seconds, whenever you use a dagger attack, you gain 2..4..5 energy and deal +1..8 damage."

Nothing in Dagger Mastery Really costs that much, so mind as well give a bonus for any dagger attack.

Shadow Arts[edit]

Blinding Powder Blinding Powder - Reword to "All adjacent foes are blind for 1..9 seconds. You have a 50% chance to block attacks for 1..3 seconds."

Monk skill.

Caltrops Caltrops - Reduce energy cost to 5. Increase recharge time to 15. Reword to "Target foe is crippled for 1..10 seconds. If target foe was moving, all adjacent foes are crippled for 1..10 seconds and take 10..40 damage."

Easier to use and requires more skill.

Mirrored Stance Mirrored Stance - Decrease recharge time to 10. "Remove one stance from target foe. This skill is replaced by that stance for 1..20 seconds."

You have control over what skill you take. Either take something offensive like frenzy or flurry or defensive like monk skills.

Shadow Form (PvP) Shadow Form (PvP) - Decrease recharge to 30. Reword to "For 1..15 seconds, you are immune to cripple and hexes and move 25% faster, but you cannot attack or target foes with skills."

Flaggers and relic runners.

Way of the Fox Way of the Fox - Decrease recharge to 20. "Your next 2..5 dagger attack skills are unblockable for the next 1..15 seconds. If you strike an enchanted foe, this enchantment ends."

Still thinking about this one. Unblockability isn't really something that should exist without some sort of skill requirement or downside. Trying to think of a way to do the former.

No Attribute[edit]

Mark of Instability Mark of Instability - Decrease energy cost to 5. Decrease recharge to 15.

This skill is so easy to counter because it HUGELY telegraphs the spike. Mind as well make the downsides not so horrible.

Mark of Instability Mark of Instability - (PvE) Decrease energy cost to 5. Reword to "All dual attacks on this foe cause a knockdown. If this foe dies while affected by this hex, this skill recharges instantly.

Signet of Twilight Signet of Twilight - Decrease casting time to 1. Decrease recharge to 15. Reword to "Touch Signet. Target foe loses one enchantment."

Easier to use.

Spirit Walk Spirit Walk - Increase recharge to 10. Reword to "Shadow Step to target."

Less stupid by just removing one word =).