Feedback talk:User/Dark Morphon/Parasitic Bond

Aw. :( Bathory talk 00:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Dun liek it? Dark Morphon 12:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I just like the skill as it is. Your suggestion wouldn't bother me terribly, either, though, to be honest. It'd be interesting, at least. Bathory talk 12:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

This skill promotes Hex stacking a lot in the current form. If we are to remove this issue, this skill has to be changed. Dark Morphon 13:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I just dislike having skills changed because of other skills, like the nerf to Suffering. I understand how powerful it was but I wish they would take approaches like your suggestion to Lingering Curse before simply weighing down a lot of skill's Energy Cost, Activation or Recharge. There are so many better ways to fix things. If they accepted this change it wouldn't be a bad skill, I don't think. However, would it work like the current Para Bond does stack-wise? Right now, when it ends, all Necromancers who cast it on the target gain the Health. With this, if a bunch of Necromancers cast this on a target and it was removed prematurely, would the last one steal Health alone or would they all steal Health? Bathory talk 16:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Imo increasing the recharge of Hexes is one of the first things they'd have to do, compare them to hex removal. It's just not fair. You could of course also decrease the recharge of Hex removal itself but that's plain and simple power creep. With high recharges, Hexes can safely have more powerful abilities than they do right now because they won't be stacked as much anymore. Concerning the life steal, I would probably make it so that only the last Necromancer gets the health to prevent abuse. Let it be obvious that running several Necromancers for the life steal effect would qualify as a gimmick. Dark Morphon 07:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Gimmick or not, if it's possible someone will do it. Personally, I feel that the reason hexes have lower recharges is to make it so monking takes skill and communication. If you were able to remove all hexes with the recharge they have now then you wouldn't need to think "Is this skill worth removing?". Still, this suggestion keeps it as a pretty good cover hex. However, most people use Defile Defenses as a cover from what I've seen but I haven't left the 4v4 arenas in a while... Bathory talk 17:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

The problem with hexway is that powerful hexes are being buried by so many hexes that monks can't really remove the important ones anymore. If you take skills such as Diversion and Shame, you'll see that unprepared monks (ie the ones that don't pay attention) get punished a lot. I think we should follow this pattern if we want to balance Hexes out. Concerning Defile Defenses, I'll put up a suggestion for that one soon enough, don't worry about that. Dark Morphon 12:02, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that Defile Defenses was a problem. Bathory talk 04:20, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Nah, it isn't much of a problem on itself, it just contributes to Hexway because of it's high duration/low recharge. It's probably a good idea to make sure hex-stacking is always a bad idea by requiring players to time skills. Dark Morphon 09:09, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

"Spell. If target foe is blocking an attack right now, they take 5...93...115 damage." Somehow I feel this is a bad idea. Bathory talk 16:29, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm talking about a short duration here. My suggestion is up anyway, discuss there. Dark Morphon 08:31, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

No. Still too short a recharge. Just rework the skill, wouldja? -- NUKLEAR IIV 18:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Butbutbut... It is a rework D:. Also, I upped the general recharge of Necromancer Hexes to 8 which is the minimal recharge of hex removal. I think it's pretty much balanced for that reason. Dark Morphon 16:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Hex removal skills remove one hex. Deny, the better of the lot, removes two. A necromancer bar can cram anything up to 6 hexes - just because it can, and adding more doesn't make your build any less effective. In fact, more hexes = moar power, because you can stack 'em high and poor removal skills won't be able to keep up. Having more than one hex removal is a bad propostion, because skill slots are precious.

You shouldn't be able to cover any hex, period. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

How about... Higher recharge, higher degeneration? If the recharge is roughly 15 seconds, it's pretty much a hex in need of covering itself. Dark Morphon 06:45, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Coming to think of it, meh. I don't consider it a problem when you can cover one important Hex at a time. Dark Morphon 06:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Saying you shouldn't be able to cover any hexes at all is kind of...stupid, really. You're bringing a bar based around an important hex. You're going to cover it with something, whether it's good for the purpose like this skill currently is - or if it's bad. I've used Faintheartedness to cover things when I don't need to use it on interrupt rangers. You use what you have. You will always be able to cover hexes as long as hexes are in the game. Bathory talk 13:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

^That. Dark Morphon 15:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

That's not what I meant by a cover hex. Sure, you can cover, say, soul leach with backfire - but backfire ain't no cover hex. That's a very legitimate application of hexes - your hex removal skill has chance to distrupt the stack. It 's dealable.

A cover hex is any hex that can be removed with no ill effect. Parastic is a cover hex because every hex you cast gets a parastic on top - and hex removal can't cope with it. So, in essence, every cover hex on your bar doubles the potency of every other hex you have. That's what's broken.

It get's worse with 2 covers. The power of the rest of your bar is quadrupled. -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:01, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

And? You sound like you're suggesting that only one Hex be allowed on a skill bar. Bathory talk 21:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

That'd be a pretty nice way to balance a great deal of hex-related issues GW has been suffering from since her conception.

But on a more realistic point, I want a skill bar to be able to maintain a single hex on a single target - no more. When you can apply the same hex to 5 people at once, hex removal can't come with it and we get shit like hexway. -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

at the very least make the duration scale, as it is now it can be abused as a cover hex with no attribute 68.202.136.112 21:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

That would totally kill the good aplication of Water Magic and Domination Magic, which are considered to be balanced. Hexes are fine as long as they are counterable. Making only Hexes that have equal or higher recharges than their removal skills or making Hexes that aren't worth removing anyway (akin Reversal of Fortune) is one of my goals. Parasitic Bond is the only Hex in my suggestions that has a higher duration than its recharge and even with that, its recharge is still equal to the fastest recharging removal skill. Yes you can cover with it, but only two Hexes at the same time, at best. Also consider that most of my Hexes aren't worth the trouble covering. I think that's very important. To the IP: don't be ridiculous. You don't waste a slot on an 8 recharge cover Hex that doesn't do anything else besides it. That's an awful idea. Dark Morphon 11:42, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Most of the time when I run Domination Magic I don't bother with covers... Diversion, Shame, Guilt when I bring it... They don't need covers and they're really the best kind of Hexes domination has to offer. Water Magic the only "cover" I use is Rust, and that's only when I know that my snare going to be removed because it was earlier. I really have nothing to say if you think that's a great idea, Nuclear. =S It just kind of disregards the point of skills altogether. Bathory talk 13:16, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Diversion and shame aren't passive hexes, and I apologize, I should've clarified that.

@ Morphon: Not really, becuase water magic hexes aren't usually covered in the first place. Having a hex skill with the same rechage as a removal skill means that your cover will get all the removals - not the VoR beneath. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

o rly? If all important hexes could be removed by monks with a single Hex removal, something would be wrong, imo. =\ Bathory talk 18:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

YA, really. You don't blow your veil on something like VoR - you blow it on things like diversion. Deny is a good skill, but it can't cope with triple hex stacks, which are pretty common today.

Actually, if hex removal could match hex application, the game would be better off for it - it would take quite a bit more skill to efficiently use hexes and it would become a priority to interrupt hex removals. -- NUKLEAR IIV 19:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that. Using hex removal effectively is a big part of being a monk. If you're aware something is covered and you have two hex removals and one is recharging, stripping the hex is a bad idea. Waiting until both are recharged and you can remove the cover and the one beneath it is smarter. That's assuming that your removals only go one deep or aren't instanteous. It's more than possible to remove the hex before the cover is even cast. Wanting hexes and remove to line up completely is rather stupid and takes a lot of skill out of applying hexes and out of removing them. Plus, if you want to remove lots of hexes there are elites for that. If not, suck it up and use the removal where you really need them. Some hexes need duration and functionality changes, but keeping hex removal constant and still requiring skill in knowing which and when to remove is pretty important for balance, which is something you love saying but seem to be ignoring for this conversation. No monk should ever be able to remove all hexes, all conditions, heal all damage or prevent all damage. Suggestion all hexes have at least 8 and unable to be covered makes the game so simple and stupid there's really not much point in running anything but Warriors and Monks. Bathory talk 21:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Not really. If that's the case, you'd still run mesmers with dom hexes (but no VoR), Illusion bars with migraine, and interrupt bars. You'd keep running Water hexes, because those hit half the map anyway, and are usually left open. You'd run assassin bars because they don't stack hexes as well. The only thing that gets shafted by a change like that would be mass curse and illusion bars, which are pretty gay and in need of a overhaul anyway.

Removing a hex before it's covered is hard, and not always possible. To do that, you have to cast your removal right when the hex lands - not a second later, because the cover is queued. Most meta covers (parastic) cast in a sec anyhow, so you have to react right then and there or the cover takes it. That's not always possible, because, as a monk, you kite around, pre-prot, and do a bunch of other stuff just to get the team through the day. So that cover is going on 99& of the time. You say to tough it out, fine, that's okay with things like suffering, or empathy - you can frenzy throguh empathy, you can redbar suffering. You can't, howver, tough out Migraine. You can't tough out VoR. You can't tough out Faintheartedness, because a war swinging at 50% speed isn't doing anything. Stuff like that are why covers are broken - not the smaller stuff, but the bigger stuff. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Thinking up a rework. This skill will be changed soon. Dark Morphon 16:32, 14 October 2009 (UTC)