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These are opinions on how to deal with the people listed and are NOT intended as personal attacks.  If you read this and are offended, there is a discussion page that you can use, but think about what you actually do before ranting there.

I am a grouch.  This is mainly due to a mild case of major depression.  I am also dyslexic.   As a result my spelling is atrocious; without a spellchecker, I'd be lost.  I think much faster than I type; I don't always get what I intended through the keyboard, and since I 'know' what should be there, I can not see that whatever it was is really missing (until later). 
Wynthsyst (aka Wyn}
Much like my late mother: Opinionated, forthright, a little bit tactless and very intelligent.  I will Listen to what she says, but I will make up my own mind.
Another very intelligent and very knowledgeable person.  A bit gruff.  He gets teased quite a bit so be polite to him.  He deserves a lot of respect, but is a little unimaginative. 
Very opinionated and self-righteous.  He needs to be watched closely and otherwise ignored.  Address the issues he raises but do not attack him.  He is also very unimaginative. 
The Rave
A good person.  Intelligent, helpful and busy. 

16:09, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Lord Balor
This one is a 'very unfunny troll'. Much worse than Backsword.  (As noted above, Backsword actually raises real issues that can be addressed.  This one just attacks.)

09:31, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


Templates are a bear to debug.  Corrections have to on the WIKI server to have an effect.  This puts a lot of junk in the recent change log and annoys the vandal patrol sysops.  Since the WIKI is still a bit arcane and I am still learning its secrets, I do have to try variations until I find one that works.  The documentation of the WIKI and its extensions, while good, is far from complete.

The 'Page Navigation' tab templates have taken a lot of work and really work quite well now.  The tab template set is significantly easier to use than some other implementations.  They are used to build distributed tables of content.  The TOC segment pages do have to be maintained when a page is moved, but the pages themselves do not usually have to be changed.  The do not have to know anything about their position in the TOC or, in most cases, do they need to know their tab display name.  They do have to know their relative depth as a sub-page for higher level TOC segments. Their main defect is that they assume a bit too much about sub-page tree structure.

The 'Page Navigation' Navigation Bar template could still use some work.  It is intended for material that has an inherent sequence, which is not the usual case with this WIKI.  It really needs to be integrated with the tab templates so the sequencing can be done externally to the actual page.

Put the TOC segments in a sub-page at the same level as the pages it enumerates and automatically include the TOC segment from the next level up, if appropriate.  This would remove the need for the 'Headers' tree and the need to know about the relative depth in the sub-page tree.

This turned out fairly nicely.  The coding needed on each page is very simple.  The coding of the TOC page is a bit trickier because it has to be its own header, but making a copy of an existing TOC and modifying should work.

16:09, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

While the Folder templates are in fairly good shape, they could be a bit better.  Some issues are:

  • The 'NavBar' needs to be integrated with the other templates in the set.
  • There should be an information extraction mode as well as a display mode
  • It should generate multi-line tab sets as needed.  This would require extensions LoopFunctions and could use StringFunctions
  • They should be designed so they can be included in the main WIKI Template: name space.

The 'ut' and 'ul' templates should be added to the main template namespace, after modifications taking previous discussions into account.

18:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


This WIKI is the result of many people's effort.  That improves the accuracy of its content but also causes inconsistencies.  Using the DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) principle, there should be one place where the basic technical information is stored.  The information there should be accessible in a form that can be 'transcluded' into other pages.  The 'infobox' templates are a fairly good place to put this kind of information, but other templates may be better.

One of the things most lacking here is consistency checks.  I have started adding check-list items to the formatting guidelines and status information on the discussion pages of game content pages.

This WIKI is, itself, part of the game.  It implements the 'Help' function.  That connection is make through the 'Game link' name space.  I have been adding information to identify where these links go so that the 'help' provided will be more appropriate to the game situation being asked about.  There are some problems.  For example, there are links from the 'explorable' list to 'Guild hall' entries.  While I am not sure, I suspect that guild halls are a kind of 'outpost' since they are meeting places where several players can get together without forming a team before hand.  However, exactly what the situation is will require a much larger sample of where the links actually go.

16:09, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

User Boxes[edit]

The template:UserboxIs fairly complex with lots of options.  It uses a floating frame, which is not particularly what I want.  I'll have to study it to see if I can use it.

From Poke's user page.  These seem not to be templates, just standard table entries with a predefined format.  Specifically pairs containing a width=60px image on the left and a width=240 text area on the right.  Categories are included with the appropriate entry but not at the bottom of the page?

I'll be taking samples from other users.  I expect I am going to end up with a list of useful images, Standard texts and categories here.  I will use those lists to cobble tables similar to the ones Poke made.

19:19, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Character Pages[edit]

I am currently using The Rave's character box.  I have a few issues that make me want to redo it my own way:

  • They don't integrate with the tabs as well as I would like.
    • The rounded corners and border are not needed
    • The main background color is the darker one where my usual convention is to use the lighter for selected tabs.  HOWEVER, this turns out to be very minor
  • There is an assumption that an image will be available and that is built into the page layout.
  • The campaign should set a number of other identifiers.
  • There should be multiple experience entries with time stamps.
  • There should be a list of regions 'completed' with an expandable list of quests and missions
  • There should be a selector for secondary profession(s)
  • The 'favorite skill' should be optional
  • There should be a 'least favorite skill'
  • If there is no pet, the pet description should disappear
  • Heros need a simplified progress chart with time stamps.  Maybe there should be a second template for heros.

18:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Removing the 'Wiki Contributions' tab[edit]

The 'Wiki Contributions' tab was one of the earliest pages I created and I have since learned better ways to structure the information here.  I have moved or am moving the pieces currently in the 'Headers' sub-tab to /TOC pages.  When that is finished, all that will be left is 'templates' and the last remaining text section on the page itself.  The text section seems to be a good fit for this page.  Once all that is done, the tab should be a reference to 'templates' in one form or another.

01:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

A good way to do documentation[edit]

Template:Lan is a very good model for displaying functional documentation, however the inclusion would be better as a link.  In particular it eliminates having a seperate Documentation tree.  Also, it allows redirection to be used to keep from having to duplicate documentation common to several related templates (or whatever).

This needs work

01:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Progress templates[edit]

The idea belongs here but the implementations belong in the game diary.

These are to be invoked for each character.  There are different templates for each region of each 'game'.  When examining the template, it lists the quests and missions for the region and game.  When used, it displays mission and quest statuses, what quests are currently available and what quests are potentially available.

21:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

There should be a set of standardized requirements templates. Specifically:

  • Requires Prophecies – the quest is available to Prophecies characters only.
  • Requires Factions – the quest is available to Factions characters only.
  • Requires Nightfall – the quest is available to Nightfall characters only.
  • Requires level – the quest is available only to characters above a specific level.
  • Unavailable level – the quest not available to characters above a specific level.
  • Requires primary – the quest is available only to characters of a specific primary profession.
  • Requires profession – the quest is available only to characters of a specific primary or secondary profession. 'none' is a special case which means no secondary profession has been chosen.
  • Requires quest – the quest is available only after the specified quest or mission has been completed. Alternate quests should be listed in the same template invocation.
  • Requires not quest – the quest can not be started once the specified quest or mission has been started and not abandoned.
  • Not concurrent quest – the quest can not be started when the specified quest is also active, but can be started after the specified quest is finished.
  • Requires party – Boolean – the quest requires a party.

Also check out Wyn's stuff.

02:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)



  • There are a lot of landmarks that are not properly tagged.
  • The location infobox should include a parameter for % explore.

15:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Work log[edit]

2009 March[edit]

  • I've moved four of the main tabs to the new table of contents structure.
  • The headers pages for the converted tabs have been redirected to the TOC pages.
  • I need to review the redirected pages and request their deletion when they are no longer in use.
  • The remaining tabs are 'Projects' and 'Wiki Contributions'.
    • Projects has more sub-pages and a complex internal structure. It will need to be done in stages.
    • Wiki Contributions has a fair number of sub-pages but is fairly well structured. Again, it will need to be done in stages.
  • The explorable game link chart did not get worked on today.
  • The Post-Searing quest chart did not get worked on today.
  • The Characters/TOC should be modified to use the 'profession' colors for the background of each characters tab.
  • The Character's pages needs a quest and mission log.

05:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Wiki Contributions needs to be broken into 'My templates' and 'Special'
  • A 'Special' is needed to locate all /TOC pages
  • Colored the character tabs and added a diary section for character stuff
  • The explorable game link chart did not get worked on today.
  • The Post-Searing quest chart did not get worked on today.

18:22, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Explorable game link chart done through 349.
  • Added the 'Special pages' tab, page, headers and TOC.
  • Added 'All my pages' to 'Special pages'. Need 'purge server' and 'TOC index'.

10:23, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Cleaned up PageNav/Folder_Tab – the 'code' is more readable.
  • Link form added to PageNav/Folder...
  • TOC index added to 'Special pages'
  • WIKI version added to 'Special pages'
  • Reference added to Diaries
  • Some Cleanup of 'Wiki Contributions'.  It is almost to the point where I can kill that page.
  • Consider making 'outer space' links background distinctive – Unselected as pink? Selected will never be seen.
  • Cleaned out 'Wiki Contributions' page text

01:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

  • All directly accessible top level sub-pages now use the /TOC structure. /TOCs all use User:Mtew/Special/index as their navigation header.

23:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Region summaries for Core and Prophecies converted to /TOC structure.  There is still stuff to be done in these sub-trees.  In particular, the 'summary' header should be moved into the template tree.

05:21, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Region summary tree conversion to /TOC and replacement of /headers/summary is complete.
  • Back links through Game link:explorable 499 done.

19:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Added 'index' column to the Explorable report.  It seems redundant on that page, but is useful for merged tables.
  • Replace the Outpost list with a table based on Poke's lists.
  • Added a merged table to the 'By Number' report tab.  Asked for Poke's comments.

00:56, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Added progress marker to Explorable. I will no longer make entries here.
  • Mission table constructed from Poke's list
  • Combined location table complete.
  • The Quest list should really be split into smaller pieces and patched together to reconstruct Poke's list in its original form.

10:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

  • The 'Wiki Contributions' tree is now gone. It was a bear to kill, but navigation should be easier to maintain as a result.

12:07, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Moved consolidated tables and lists to sub-pages so the loading time of the top of 'Poke's List' and 'By Number' are short but the information is still available.
  • Working on converting the Quest list to a table.  VERY repetitious – Need a better way to edit...

17:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Found Poke's tools and added them to 'monobook.js' — They clutter up every page tab bar so I may just remove them.
  • Found a more efficient in-browser editor and installed it — Security issues?
  • Completed Quest list to table conversion.

19:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Quest table split into manageable pieces
  • Skill list copied to By Number report and broken into manageable pieces there.
  • Converted 0-999 from list to sortable table.

03:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Added Template:nl to insert a line break during 'search and replace' operations.
  • Finished Skill table construction.

17:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Progress template framework setup.
  • Added 'break' to FolderTabs.
  • Need to fix festival event missions - there are none.

21:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Factored the display code out of the progress templates.  Tested for Prophecies and Core.  The remianing games need to be done.

13:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

  • The quest progress template research for pre-Searing seems to be complete.
  • Reviewing the By Region Quest Info report is providing the framework for writing up the research.  That is also part of the contents project which had stalled because of lack of application.  Restarting that has kicked up a small amount of fuss.  Now that there is a specific application, maybe some of that fuss can be calmed and real progress might be made.  The main foot dragers have at least shown an interest.
  • game links project update: The explorable areas back links are not yet done, but significant progress has been made.  The quest requirements project got all of the attention so far today, but this project is still moving.

18:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

  • The 'By Region' reports have been restructured.  The earlier version produced reports for an entire campaign or expansion.  The result was that the reports took too long to generate and the page loads timed out.  The new version has a page for each region.  The results are a 'very heavy' for some of the larger regions but some are empty too.  With this change complete, I can return to WIKI content projects.

14:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Pre-Searing Ascalon quest progress template done.

01:57, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

2009 April[edit]

  • Pre-Searing Ascalon quest dependencies template is very good.
  • Post-Searing Ascalon quest dependencies template - work in progress - Completed quests done.
  • Pre-Searing Ascalon quest guidelines compliance - Required section review done - a few problems.
  • Pre-Searing Ascalon quest guidelines compliance - Many quests still need compliance tables.

13:06, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

  • Added 'Other' to the 'By Region' report. Currently, there are no 'other' regions.
  • Broke the big location list into various categories.

15:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

2009 May[edit]

  • Missed a lot of details that really should have been logged here.
  • Big effort with Nicholas Sandford/the Travler.
  • Finished the Monk Armor Costs table.
  • Restructured the Items information Project.

02:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)