User talk:Auron/Disabling HA Title Display

Disabling Title & Emote displaying in HA outpost

Would you please consider adding (or rather: removing) this? It's very frustrating to be kicked out of every group you come across if you can't show a certain rank. At the moment, there are only 3 categories of players: 'good players', beginners who can't get into teams and beginners who join eachother only to be 'free-fame-farmed' by 'good players' (translation: the join a guild, make your own team and other fake-suggestions made by the HA elite don't work). Of all those I asked, none of the 'good players' can even remotely phantom the idea that I want to learn HA, let alone take 1 beginner along amongst a R9+ group (they should be good enough to compensate for 1 beginner playing one of their button mashing builds anyone can play). The 'you-are-a-noob-haha' insults however, aren't in short supply. Would you please add this issue to the long list of issues that you may look into some day? 145.94.74.23 19:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

The Haha-you-are-a-noob-insults you face everywhere TBH,Ranks were made to show skill.Because of gimmicks they never reflected skill but grind.Therefor The ranks should be removed anyway but thats impossible to do because some doom bomber exploiter might try to sew anets ass.(ow and the others that worked hard to get their favorite piece of grind would to + the one that actually did run normal builds).What I'm trying to say is :

NO they wont consider it Lilondra *Poke* 19:56, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Besides, you'd be surprised at how far randomway can get you. King Neoterikos 21:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Fetid River, that's about it, unless you run an imba spike team or IWAY or something. calor (talk) 21:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

It's a common mistake that titles were supposed to show skill: they weren't meant to do so. They we're meant to show how much you played something (a.k.a. the thing some players now call grind). But still: since everybody agrees that titles don't equal skill, then why is it so hard for me to get into a HA group? It's the same thing with the button mashing builds: all players agree that anyone can play them, yet they will only accept rX+ players who play that build. Please explain it to me because I don't understand it. 145.94.74.23 22:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

This is why I avoid Arena style PvP modes entirely and only PvP in games that offer Persistent RvR style zones like the "World PvP" that I'm sure many of us are all anticipating in GW2. I used to do the same thing in City of Heroes by only playing in PvP zones until they deleted PvP altogether. Public and Open PvP venues are the ONLY way to go if you're smurf/newb --ilr 23:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Lets say a person is an idiot. That idiot doesn't really know how to do much, but finds joy in succeeding at button mashing builds IE FoTM builds. Thus, seeing as that person can't do anything else, he grinds FoTM until he gets to R9. But lets say that non-idiot comes along and wants to get in on the fun. Now elitism and idiocy go hand in hand, so the aforementioned grinders see this guy, a R1 guy and the idea that this guy could be anything other than a n00b is too much for their minds (due to idiocy). So they do the first thing that comes to mind-they exile them and shout insults. This is the PvP community. ;D-Warior Kronos 05:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Sadly, the same thing happens in the PvE community, except it is worse, because they don't accept anything less than maxed sunspear/lightbringer, a fully mindless grind title, as opposed to HA's need for skill to a certain extent, for Cry of Pain and co.Pika Fan 07:04, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

most people started as brave and mighty warriors with pets and a necromancer to give them more powerful vampiric mods. these people played all day until they reached a pretty high rank, these people are better than me at being mesmer, cuz im r4 and i totally don't know how to interrupt. this leaves me with logging on my necro, play the boring LC role in the new grinding build u meet all the time (the same thing r9+++ play, the people who've been farming ha for a longer time than me, mind you), it gets me nowhere, this is ha for people without high rank, and why i like fort aspenwood. --Cursed Angel 08:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I feel at least a little better knowing that some of you share my feelings on HA. Thanks for the support guys. 145.94.74.23 08:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

oh you just got rejected from a group and decided to qq to reggie? i fully support you.

and by that i mean lol @ the entire suggestion. -Auron 09:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

^auron fully approves of this because he truely knows how lame and wierd it is to be rejected and insulted for wanting to play in an arena in a video game. not to say that any build in ha can be played by a five year old and heroes without months of grinding. --Cursed Angel 13:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

How many concept builds has Auron ever played? Beating a ninja with a wet towel is a lot more impressive than beating a footsoldier with a bazooka... and none of that kind of WIN ever shows up in Title tracks or Arena chat --ilr 22:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Beating a footsoldier as a footsoldier is what Auron does tbh. --Shadowcrest 01:19, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I knew there would be an Elitist PvP Player that would make fun of me sooner or later. It's only fitting that that person should be Auron, a veteran who has never experienced the troubles that we rookies have. But since you decided it's not a problem Auron, I assume I'll get an invite from you the next time you HA? 145.94.74.23 11:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Automated ladder would be better. Let the pros fight the pros, and the newbs fight the newbs. Put some randomness into it, of course, so the game stays fun... but match up a fair amount of the time. Matching by sum(rank) might work relatively well. -- Alaris 14:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

It would make sense to disable PvP emotes in PvE outposts, but there is no meaning on disabling PvP emotes in PvP outposts. People will ask for titles and emotes always, if you disable them in the HA outpost, they will go to a place where they work to find party members. MithTalk 14:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, have you ever run a relic? Do you know when you need to interrupt SoC before getting Claim Resource? Do you know the path to take to get the Ghostly to the centre as quickly as possible without getting body blocked? Do you know how to snare and body block a relic runner? If you have grinded out R9, it's assumed that you have done these things at some point. Sure, you can run a build and mash buttons in the right order, but do you actually know how to HA? When I'm running randomway, I will let anyone come with me, that's an open invite to anyone in the world, whisper me when I am setting up and you can come. If I am forming a proper group with a build and a vent I expect people to know their roles and what to do on each map. I almost never PUG, no matter what rank people are displaying because you just can't trust people you don't know to know what to do, why should someone trust someone with a lower rank over someone with a higher rank? They will both likely be terrible, but there is a marginally smaller risk of the higher ranked person being terrible. If you are going into HA and trying to join random groups you are honestly better off with Randomway and do not expect to get much further than Fetid. Misery 14:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Please tell us how we're supposed to learn these things if we can't get into groups that get that far? Yes yes, I know, run FotM and grind it. And give lots of fame to high-ranking organized HA groups. *or* set up a ladder so you can learn by fighting teams that are more of your level. -- Alaris 17:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

See, I'm a terrible HA player, I just "grinded" it, it really didn't take that long to find a few people who would invite me to their groups. If you can't find those people, maybe you aren't as good as you think you are. Misery 17:12, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Alaris - you skip from underworld, lose a relic run, wonder what the hell was supposed to happen, and look on obs to find out. Next run, you lose courtyard, wonder what the hell you were supposed to do to win, and look on obs to find out. Alternatively, you could just play PvE through crystal desert and learn about every game type in HA, but I can't expect everyone to be pro at the game :p

145, don't count on an invite from me next time I HA. I wouldn't take you because I think you lack skill, not because I think you lack rank.

On a similar note, I was there once, too. I wasn't just given an account with r9 on it. I started unranked just like you did. A combination of not blowing ass at the game and building up my flist got me to r3, which got me in a guild, which got me r6, etc. Whining on reggie's talk page about how unfair a video game is most certainly did not get me to rank 10. Listening to, watching, and playing with better players made me a better player myself. It's sort of like high-end PvE except more fun - you have to grind out a bit to get started (r10 norn, for example) but when you can flash a bambi, you start getting in groups of more skilled players. I know it's a bad example because r10 norn doesn't mean a damn thing skill-wise, but it's the same basic concept. You can't really start to play the game until you've done a bit of grinding to begin with. Yeah, the grind sucks. I think Guild Wars PvE is a pile of shit, but if I had been aspiring to get into DoA ursan groups, I wouldn't have been QQing on reggie's page about how fucking hard/unfair/pointless/etc it is, I'd be grinding some damn norn points.

I suggest you stop whining and do the same. -Auron 17:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Quote:"Listening to, watching, and playing with better players made me a better player myself." Let's see: I can watch OBS all day, but that won't get me an invite or a team. So far, you have just called me a whiner and not offered any helpful advice, so listening to you won't get me anywhere either. And you won't invite me, because I told you I was a beginner and have yet to learn HA (which I can't because of the above).

As for your hard work grinding a rank, when did you do that? Last month, or 2 years ago, when PUGging was still possible? 145.94.74.23 17:52, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Personally, people who rank/title discriminate just prove they are terrible players - PvP, from what I've seen, is so copy and paste it might as well be PvE so I don't see how people can get so big and bad over ranks, but, since I don't really give two hoots for PvP I'll have to go with the samey nature of it all.

145: There are some genuinely good players out there however; people who actually enjoy helping people out so I would advise to keep trying, not everyone in PvE or PvP are rank discriminators. Auron, it's nice you would be grinding Norn points to do a DoA Ursan group (that's a very nice "That's nice, dear" point to make) but the mechanics of PvP don't work the same way, yes? [goes off to stare at an apple using of the power his mind to bend reality and turn it into a lightsabre] "Wow! Look mommy, it worked" All seriousness now: 145, It might take some time but you need to put yourself out there. PvP communtities can be, for want of a better word, crap, it's not a rule of course. There are good people with a sense of community and sportsmanship. It all takes time. Look at the positive, at least you can rule out Auron ^_^ but we love him so ^_^ 000.00.00.00 18:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The IP's got 'em there... when DID Auron learn to be a Pro? As a perenial veteran, I can sit back and laugh at all the newbs who weren't there from day1 in Lots of games and offer "PROTIP"s all day. But that don't mean I can relate one damn bit about what the current atmosphere is for a newb unless I went full on PvP-smurf ...which ironically seems to be the exact situation the Elite wish to avoid over all else. The thought of having to re-learn ANYTHING frankly scares them shitless. But to Auron's credit, anyone who's observed and knows as much as he clearly does, can't possibly a total elitist A-hole in person and would probably invite the IP right along if he knew him better. But again, that's another thing that's on the down-low cuz it runs counter to "E-thug" mystique that all Pro's aspire to. --ilr 23:04, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Sup? I got my bambi last month so I know exactly what it's like to get into groups now without a rank. It's no problem unless you expect to pug and not play with terrible people. Being humble will help you more than raging at people for discriminating against you. Trust me, I'm terrible, you are terrible, most of the people you will play with ever will be terrible. Misery 23:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Wait, pugging isn't possible? What makes you think that? You think pugs were magically better 2 years ago? Aside from that being lolwrong, there were no less than 10 districts of people forming groups yesterday, and you couldn't find one? That's no longer a problem with the system. That means you aren't trying at all.

And actually, my PvE comparison is pretty solid. The shitters in PvE who only rank r10 norn for ursan groups are like the shitters in HA who only take r10+ people. You have to grind out rank either way, since calling them stupid isn't going to get you in their group.

Lastly, regardless of when I got rank at all, I've not once posted on reggie's talk page - but given her response about everything else, something hints that it isn't going to get you fame either. Like I said, stop whining and start playing. The choice is yours. There are groups forming every minute of the day - many of them are perfectly happy to take unranked people just to play around. Some of them are even willing to teach. Ever heard of kisu? They're a guild totally devoted to teaching players how to PvP. At this point, if you can't get 180 fame with the stupid amounts of double fame weekends that all bring 10 districts of people forming parties, it's your fault, not anyone else's. Stop trying to pretend otherwise, roll the gimmicks like we've all had to, and stop suggesting brainless, pointless changes that don't solve anything. (seriously? what the hell do you think turning emotes off is going to solve? people will simply demand screenshots of the fame bar, elitism isn't going to be chased away by simple mechanics changes. did you even read your suggestion before hitting "save page?" it's pretty hard to pretend it would solve anything). -70.95.66.182 23:55, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Pugging was a lot easier back when there were more PUGs. Should be a no brainer but appearantly I had to spell it out. And it might be my fault that nobody ever takes me along, but I would really like to know why. I ping the build they need and they haven't met me yet (if they knew me better, I'd kick me too, but they don't yet at that point) so other than rank, they have no reason to kick me. But like I said Auron (or mr. IP, if you will), you don't really understand what it's like. 145.94.74.23 08:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool how you totally ignored me when I dismantled your point. That open invite still stands by the way. The main way you get into groups is by not being a douchebag. I don't really HA much at all so it's taken me about a year to get my bambi through very casual play (something like once a month HA), I haven't noticed a huge difference in getting into pugs over that period, pugs have always been terrible and always discriminated based on rank. I had a very small amount of HA experience about 2-2.5 years ago too, can't say it was very different, I mostly got into randomway or henchway. The ability to take 7 henchmen would be the only thing that made it easier. If you dig through Gaile's archive you will probably find me QQing in a similar manner to you about a year ago although I was more interested in things other than HA, guess what? I sucked it up, built up my flist and got into groups. Misery 08:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

My apologies that I ignored your comment. I'll try to make up by replying to this one. Yes, I will suck it up, and most likely just try to grind away 1 point at a time with my guildies until I have enough to actually start playing HA. My point however, wasn't that it's eternally impossible for myself to get into a group, but rather the general issue: rank discrimination is very, very frustrating for newer players. You need to grind to get a group and you need a group to grind. It shouldn't have to be so hard. At least with title grinding, you could grind away by yourself. Another suggestion that might help, is to give 1 fame for beating those NPC zaishen (up to a maximum per day, like ZC and ZE). It would matter a lot to the beginners that they will get at least something for their efforts. Even if they lose all their games on a day, they will at least have 1 less point until the required 180 fame. How does that sound to you guys? No less grinding, no buckets of free fame, but just a little each day to get you going? Anet could even make it stop after getting rank 3. 145.94.74.23 08:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Then people will just make you grind to rank 4. People will always find a means to discriminate, there are no shortcuts. The problem is with the nature of the people you are playing with, not the system. As for "not being able to grind it out on your own", yes you can, it's called randomway and it works. I have gotten a considerable chunk of fame at a rate faster than pugging or even some organised groups with fail people I know (PvXers are mostly terrible by the way) by rolling a damage based character, taking two N/Rt or Me/Rt heroes then hitting tab+invite in IDX until my party is full then hitting enter before anyone has any time to change anything or say anything. Apparently HA is really hard. Randomway is love. Misery 09:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I've racked up about 40 fame in the past week thanks to randomway (and we would rarely get past one win, we might get two if we were lucky). It really isn't that hard to find people, try searching in International Districts, there are always a lot of people there. King Neoterikos 22:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I'm still r2 as well. Find a guild, gind some friends. That's how I HA when I don't randomway. King Neoterikos 22:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

"Pugging was a lot easier back when there were more PUGs. Should be a no brainer but appearantly I had to spell it out." Two years ago there weren't 10 districts of people forming like there was a few days ago. You weren't around two years ago to see the terrible groups forming and all the elitism I had to endure. I had to deal with the same shitters in my timezone day after day, since there honestly weren't many people playing at midnight HST. Once I got higher ranked from grinding with those shitters, I could be a little more picky when I formed groups.

"you don't really understand what it's like." Yes, actually, I do. Heroes' Ascent was my favorite form of PvP - it was more serious than RA/TA yet not as demanding as guild battles. Even back when I was a noob, I hated doing RA. People would tell me to RA for faction, and I just hated it - so I spent most of my noob time in HA. I spent hours reading over skills at the priest of balthazar, deciding what I should unlock next. I'd ask for bars in all chat so I could have them unlocked by the time I needed to join a group. I got about 6 fame from a friend - just enough to get me hooked. In that 6 fame, I lost in relic runs, broken tower and courtyard, and honestly didn't have a clue what to do in any of them. So I obsed matches and watched guilds like iQ and Team Quitter hold halls for hours, stomp other teams in relic runs and king of the hill... and I learned what each map took.

Lastly, I learned quickly that the best way to avoid elitism is to form your own parties. If you want to HA, start an unranked group - you'll fill up on people very very quickly. You get to pick the build, the players, and the best part is it happens quickly. If you detest elitism so much, be a beacon of kindness for those other new players and start pugs on your own. It's how I made most of the way to r3 - since two years ago, elitism wasn't a new fad. People were rejecting me from groups back then, just like they're rejecting you now. When I made my own groups, I kept in touch with the good players (regardless of rank), and formed better and better groups as time went on. When you get 5 or 6 "good" unranked players, you can start winning UW without trouble, and working on harder and harder maps. Before long you'll be ranked, and as soon as you can flash a bambi getting into groups is *much* easier.

You seem to think life was easy 2 years ago. You seem to think people just handed me fame and said "it's ok, you're auron, you can just start ranked." That's simply ridiculous. I was an unranked nobody. I couldn't just say "hi" in all chat and get ranked groups inviting me like I do now - people just ignored me back then. It took a long time of building up my friends list and rank before it started being a lot of fun. Either way, your suggested change is terrible and won't solve anything. I hope you know that and are just using it as an excuse to rant about elitism. -Auron 23:36, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Then why is it so hard to write something like that the first time, instead of just rediculing me? This would have been helpful to a beginner, calling him a uselss cryer is not. Seriously Auron, when you try, you're a pretty nice guy, but there are times when I really wonder what the world ever did to you. 145.94.74.23 07:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Because that's already been said like 5 times in this thread, but responses have been "you don't know what it's like". Yes we do, practically every one of us. I don't think Auron said anything that hasn't been said, he may have expanded on a couple of points but I'm guessing he mostly responded in such an expansive manner because of the direct attacks on his credibility. And maybe he was bored. One slight difference between my and Auron's stories is that I don't really like HA, so I don't form my own groups, guess what? It's the same process. Misery 07:58, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, Auron's first reaction was, and I quote: "oh you just got rejected from a group and decided to qq to reggie? i fully support you. and by that i mean lol @ the entire suggestion.". That's not the most tactical way to adress someone who has just spent 2 hours getting similar responses from every HA team he tried to join. His last response was a little more...nice. 145.94.74.23 09:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

But all of them were accurate, and this topic is still as absurd as it was the minute you posted it. -Auron 01:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

<actual serious response for once>--Every good idea ever implemented usually originates from a bouquet of Terrible ideas. And Elitism for good or ill, needs checks and balances against it, otherwise it turns to seething hypocrisy. And it's hard to find a better example of that than the brandishing of farmable ranks in place of real skill. That doesn't mean the Devs should take the IP's idea seriously. It just means it's another thing to consider the next time they look at how they're incentivizing player achievements. --ilr 02:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

So anyway, back to the original topic... a few things to ponder.

1. If players weren't allowed to display their titles or /rank, then how would one be able to determine the worthiness of potential groupmemebers when not forming randomway? Armor is not much to judge on, and that's about all you can "see" otherwise except for maybe their cape trim. Asking to open trade, for "show 100k+ ectos to prove you're not a noob" would be ridiculous. You have to look at both sides of the coin; disabling /rank and titles would be removing an important screening tool for "those HA elite". (They are just as important/valuable/deserving a player as you are - it's not fair to impinge on their rights without compensation.)
2. It's true that /ranking people is insulting. But so is /dancing on their corpse, or any other emote for that case. Even if emotes were disabled, people could still call you all sorts of nasty names in PMs or all-chat. Unless you want to use your Ignore list extensively, turn off chat (bad for tactics btw), or have ANet ban anything except team chat in these place, there's really no way to escape potential butthurt. So singling out /ranking and such doesn't really help solve the problem.
3. It's fundamentally wrong for ANet to force people to play with people they do not want to, when the arena isn't semi-random like RA/FA/JQ/whatever, in the name of "fairness" or something. I mean, there's a reason you're allowed to pick and choose teammates. You can go to any team-based arenas and there will always be many people who discriminate in one way or another; they are more concerned about having a good chance at winning the match than helping a beginner, because not that many people are altruistic like that, and/or winning is the fun part. If it's not by /rank, people will kick you for running the wrong bar, or not having an Enchanting mod on your equipment, or something else. So again, singling out /rank etc. doesn't solve the problem; and if such measures were taken to ban them, it would only be creating more new problems instead. Vili 02:57, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL @ Vili. if you have a higher rank you will sooon realize that HIGER RANK DOSNT = GOOD PLAYER. this idea that it matters is just rubish yes some one who has never played ha before may be a noob but if they havent played ha and just played gvg and just gvg they probly have a better understanding of the game. and im just going to say this right now im r9 and i still have no real idea as to what i am doing in ha. the best way to get rank and play ha is to join a ha guild. thats how i got my rank, and if you are a n00b dont be the arigent type that dosnt take advice, also the other real think thats a detraction from playing with someone is if they dont have ts, or vent or a mic. 75.165.109.100 00:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I like how you put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about /rank meaning that those players are better. As Misery said, all it means is they have a marginally better chance at not failing spectacularly than someone without rank (usually...there are, in fact, good ranked players). You may have missed the quotation marks around "those HA elite". Other than that, I tried to avoid suggesting "get into a guild" etc. because according to the OP, those are "fake-suggestions made by the HA elite [that] don't work". Vili 00:26, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

i wasnt putting words in your mouth i was simply replying to everyone in this "tread" (are thise things treads?) also my suggestion as to join a guild is what worked for me and thats why i suggested it.75.165.109.100 01:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion. And @Auron: but you could just add your arguments the first time, instead of just making fun of me. Being a famous player doesn't give you the right to be an ass, even though people may forgive and forget it earlier. You're (probably) a good player. Work on your manners, and you might one day be a great player. 145.94.74.23 06:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

That's where you're dead wrong. Guild Wars doesn't reward being nice - it rewards victory. -Auron 09:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

GW doesn't punish being nice. So if people aren't nice, it's by choice. -- Alaris 14:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

And what has that got to do with everything that's said thus far?Pika Fan 22:34, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I can tell what kind of debater Auron is specifically by reading that one sentence by him. "You're dead wrong." I can just look at that and assume he was a jackass - perhaps, a correct one - the entire time. Auron could articulate himself better by just saying, "How will that make me a great player?", which, 145.94.74.23 - how do you suppose that is that going to make him a better player? Vael Victus 22:52, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Except Auron was completely right in saying that? The only time Guild Wars ever rewarded anyone for being nice to someone else was when The Scribe may have possibly mentioned your name in his articles (if you call that a reward). King Neoterikos 23:13, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Was he completely right? Well that's interesting, because saying something is "dead wrong" would imply the person is very far from having any part of the post that could be considered correct. Unfortunately for him, the user was not "dead wrong" because as you said just now, there are benefits to being nice. Is being nice going to give you a higher dodge rating? No. Is it going to help you get into groups? Definitely. He was being a jackass and it's just cute to see people say things like "dead wrong" because in most cases, like this one, the user is not absolutely wrong, and it only serves to make a jackassed comment even more of jackassed comment. Vael Victus 03:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I pity those that will only be nice if they get something out of it. As for your answer, if you can explain something to a beginner with no knowledge of something, then you truly understand something. 145.94.74.23 08:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

What does that have to do with anything? Yeah, if I can explain to a total newbie how exactly to use "Make Haste!", then I can feel sure in calling myself an expert, but I just spent forty-five minutes explaining something I shouldn't have to explain to someone I will never see again instead of just picking up an experienced player and playing HA like I logged in to do. What an excellent use of theoretical time that was. --76.25.201.198 10:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Judging by your lengthy reply, yes. Pika Fan 16:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

It has to do with anything because someone asked me a question, and I replied. Also, ingame and a wiki are 2 different things. If you ever bothered to teach people here, it would be read by hundreds of people. But I suppose it's easier to farm fame if there are more noobs, correct? 145.94.74.23 19:23, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

145: you have no idea what you're talking about. This topic is about displaying titles in HA, or more specifically, making ANet turn titles and emotes off in HA. This discussion isn't about life, the universe, and everything; nor is it about me or you. If you're interested in talking about me, use my talk page so reggie won't be bothered by it. You haven't had a single good post in support of your argument since you started this topic, and because of that it's derailed to a "omg auron should be nice" thread. Do you even remember why you started it? You're here to whine about elitism - stick to your own topic or beware how useless this entire section will be to Regina. If you even want to respond, you should consider writing up a pros and cons list of outcomes your suggested change will bring - and remember that changes made need to actually address problems. So far, your change doesn't do anything except mildly inconvenience elitists, yet greatly inconvenience people looking to get into groups (since it is up to them to provide proof of rank in the first place).

In the Guild Wars game I'm familiar with, being nice does not get you good fame. Unless you're playing a separate Guild Wars game (specifically, one in which you get fame for being a carebear), keep in mind fame is only "given to players who win battles in Heroes' Ascent." As I touch on later, being nice is but one of many methods of getting into groups, but in terms of actually earning fame, Guild Wars only rewards victory. That means being better than the other team.

"if you can explain something to a beginner with no knowledge of something, then you truly understand something." I agree completely. I am capable of explaining this topic to a beginner with no knowledge of it, but am only willing to do so if that beginner wants to learn. I have no interest in explaining it to a beginner who thinks he knows what he's talking about, when he actually has no clue. If you are the former, hit me up on MSN when my computer gets fixed and I probably won't mind spending hours discussing this topic with you - I've actually thought about this topic often, and have some ideas ANet could implement to make finding groups less painful for everyone. If you, however, are the latter kind of beginner, don't bother messaging me at all.

"saying something is "dead wrong" would imply the person is very far from having any part of the post that could be considered correct." Unfortunately for you, Vael, he was dead wrong - being a great player requires skill (which includes knowledge of the game mechanics and skill library) and nothing else. Being a great person requires many traits beyond skill, and indeed, skill is often not required at all. Unfortunately for his argument and for yours, we're discussing a video game that rewards the team who wins, not the team with more virtuous people. Before getting philosophical, remember the topic of discussion and keep your philosophy on this side of reality.

You, Vael, obviously understand the difference between skill and kindness, yet you stray off topic when it matters. "Is being nice going to give you a higher dodge rating? No." Good so far. On topic and within reality. "Is it going to help you get into groups? Definitely." Oops. Off-topic and in mild conflict with reality (being nice doesn't "definitely" help you get into groups - remember, the majority of tombs players are assholes). If we want another topic about methods of getting into groups, I'd love to join that discussion too - but that's too far off the current topic to allow ourselves to get lost and discuss that instead. Slightly still on that topic, I'm going to assume that your advice to be nice so I can join groups more easily isn't directed at me.

summary since my last post - 145 still hasn't said how the suggestion in topic does anything except inconvenience the majority of players trying to find groups, vael branches into philosophy in guild wars without quite keeping hold of the reality of finding groups, and we're still discussing how auron being nice will make him great, since apparently he's the one bitching about not having enough fame. If you have all the answers to getting fame, 145, you shouldn't be having problems getting any (let alone a measly 180 or 1000 or however much you need for your flashy animal of choice). If you're having problems, maybe you should stop giving bad advice and listen for a change, since apparently that whole being nice thing didn't actually make you "great." -70.95.69.64 12:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Well IP, you obviously want to play a format of PvP that you havent played before without bothersome shit. That isn't possible with HA nor with this game Im afraid. Theres always be a basement dweller unemployed snotty snob kid that tells you something about rplus, it sometimes gets you to laugh, think or say ".....ok....". Some people are into GW is serious businness. By now, removing the title display (besides being too late) will just bring QQ and the anticipated customers for GW2 may disperse. This may explain the world PvP for GW2. I recommend you to play other areas easily accessible to PvP like TA, GvG(in a guild of 100 is very easy) and AB. --ShadowFog 10:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

@Auron: Thanks for the discussion invite, but I really have little left to add. It seemed like an ok way to combat elitism in PUGs (and I thought it wouldn't be inconvienient to those with guilds or PvP friends), but many of you disagree so I suppose it's not the best way to fix it (though to be honest, I don't understand your reasonings completely). The last comment I'll bother you guys with is that when I wrote the first post, I genuinely wanted to improve the game for newcomers; to at least allow them to enter HA without fame, not to whine about anything. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I wanted to make that clear. 145.94.74.23 19:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

If teams could skip maps based on their amount of fame, it would do a lot to soften the learning curve. New teams wouldn't have to play against (if you can even call it "playing against") stronger teams until later on; there would only be unranked teams in UW, and it would continue to get pregressively harder, like it currently does. But that's just a suggestion off the top of my head; I haven't thought it out.

A bit off-topic, but the situation in TA is much the same. To quote, "It's always, one win, two wins, three, four (glad point time!), ohai cirque." Needs moar ladder, IMO. Raine - talk 22:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The time has come for me to completely win this discussion. Ok, ready? If not, too bad.

Here is the deal people...let's let go of the idea that the rank emote is a "prejudice" for just one second and apply the idea to terms most people will understand in everyday usage. Here is an example, when you apply for a job, or audition for a play normally you will utilize a resume to show proof you have experience in whatever it is you are trying to do. I consider, to some degree, the rank title as being something of a resume that PvP players will use when they need to fill a spot quickly with a pug player they do not know. It isn't that they assume you're terrible (well, some do, but that is beside the point), but they assume, and usually this is somewhat correct of an asumption that a person with r9 or higher has the level of experience needed to fill that role--reasons being 1. a person r9 or higher will have a larger Balth cap, or will have aqquired more Balth than a player r3 and below, which means that it is safe to assume the r9 person is UAX and can roll any type of character with any and all skills, equipt and armor setups that are needed. 2. It is easier to assume a person r9 and higher has experience playing all the maps and is familiar with the more tactic oriented parts of HA, not just Fetid and UW.

Now, this isn't always the case...and yes, not all people r9 +++ are the greatest players in GW, but for the purpose of pugging all of you need to understand, people who play competitively and have a higher rank are not out there to help you learn, they are out there to win and play at their best. I'm sorry, but that is the case and all of you need to deal with it accordingly. Just like in any event, occupation or competitive game, you never start at the top when you are new. That's just the fact of life, and instead of taking in the terrible ideaology of "everyone is a winner" that is learned at t-ball, the reality of a "learning curve" or "working your way up" needs to take effect if you want to do more HA and PvP. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Paul McCartney & John Lennon did not burst out of their mothers with a gold records in their hands...they had to start at the bottom, learn to play bass & guitar, play in a band, get good at playing live, perfect song writing, tour all over and play gigs that likely paid in beer or pitiful amounts of cash, they were the opening act for someone bigger and more popular before being discovered and signed by EMI records and becoming the legend that the Beatles are today. So the same must be done by all.

Here is the REAL solution, and though many of you may not like it, it is the truth of the matter. Solution 1: You want to get in groups...well, you start at the bottom and play with low rank ones or randomways. YOU PUG. All of us did, and now so must you. 2 things will happen...you will learn and get better, and you will get fame that will allow you to get into better groups. Solution 2: Play in RA, TA, keep pugging in HA...If you're good, eventually people will get to know you and they will invite you into higher ranked groups where no one will care if you are under r9 because So-And-So knows you to be a good player. I'm not r9 but I have had the good fortune of playing with high ranked people because I networked...people know me and I have always been able to play on good, organized teams. If you really are a good player, people will see past the rank title and you will get invited into groups who are organized. Solution 3: Play in teams with your friends and guildies. The same will apply as the above solutuions. Solution 4: Check forums for guilds that HA/PvP and want to teach lower ranked players...they exist and you can learn or get experience this way.

There...it was just that easy. Now if the reality is too harsh, or if those solutions are 1. too hard, 2. not doable for you, then I'm sorry to tell you--them's the breaks, and you will be stuck groupless in ID1. Good luck to you.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 23:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

tl;dr. --75.71.67.5 23:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

If you're a good player, people will see past the rank? Yes, that's why I get kicked in under 5 seconds I am not displaying my title. My point is, that there's a difference between starting at the top, and not being able to start at the bottom. The fix I am asking for is not to help people climb that ladder, it is to help them being allowed to climb that ladder at all. In real life, those that can't get jobs can get help from certain institutions to their first job (training, mediation, etc.) so they'll have something to start from. Those guilds you mentioned, are a solution. I think I might try them. 145.94.74.23 22:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Please see where I said "If you're good, eventually people will get to know you and they will invite you into higher ranked groups where no one will care if you are under r9 because So-And-So knows you to be a good player". Again, getting out there and networking is the key. Pugging will not yield immediate results, so work around it.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 22:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I support this addition. Rank means nothing these days. First of all, trash the rank emote. Second of all, remove the option to display rank as a title.

I'm sure you do. And while we're at it, let's just remove all the titles and grind from this game as a whole.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 22:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. The title system was a bad idea in the first place and needs to be thrown away. So what if people clickbots QQ about it? Guild Wars was never meant to be grind based. The grindbots can get shoved into the trash for all I care. Tell them to go ruin WoW.