User talk:Raine Valen/Archive 7

Gank Squad

You should HA again with us tonight.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 20:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I can be on on friday night (from 02:00) Boro 20:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Good, Fridays are when we're up until the weee hours playing with Euro teams.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 21:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Fridays, huh? I'll put it on my calendar... Vili 21:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I know Raine monks, but what do the rest of you feel comfortable playing? Just so I know what to tell Purge when he puts in certain classes to a build.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 21:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm nearly UAX and play all professions, so theoretically I can run anything...although I'm not at all comfortable with any monk-like activity, anything that targets allies regularly. If there's something you want me to play, it would help to get an advance notice so I can practice; PvE is terrible training for PvP, for the most part. Vili 21:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, the best way is to just get in there and do it. I remember when I started pvp, Adrin was out of town and they boys were planning to gvg that weekend, I was on and they bribed me to come in Adrin's place. I was terrified of looking like an idiot, as I was the pve person in the guild, and really just there because I was friends with the boys. I ran air ele, and this was back pre-factions. I ran all air spike skills and I think Aegis. I just did what the caller told me. It was pretty fun, been doing it ever since.

We'll throw you on an fire ele or something easy until you're comfortable.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 22:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

...Oh. I might have to reconsider, then. Vili 00:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

We need more larceny/thievery SoI mes, tbh. I love when our mesmer can use WoH and SH on the same bar. Raine - talk 01:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Purge and I are pro like that.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 02:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

"Guys, I got Rodgort's! Call a spike!"

"Here in 3... 2..."

"Oh, wait, it's 25 energy. Screw that."

♥ Purge. Raine - talk 02:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm really sorry about tonight...that was bullshit. Shard raged too, they got into it bad.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 06:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind at all. I can have my bad days, too (ask my guildies, lol); I'm not going to hold it against anyone else.

To be fully honest, I fail as a heal and I know I fail as a heal (Why does he keep asking me to play heal?), and I was having vent issues that I didn't even know about till after that match as an ele (my vent sensitivity was set wrong, so I wasn't transmitting when I thought I was), which is something I should've checked before the match; if a caller's mic is baed, gg - all in all, it was a generally bad night.

But, like I said, I'm not going to hate anyone for it. Shit happens. Raine - talk 08:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I think its because he's teaching Colonel, and they're starting with prot first. I haven't seen Colonel play healer/infuser yet, only prot.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 17:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I still need to talk with him about getting so mad. Funny enough, he used to be a lot worse.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 17:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I used to rage at people. Then Nightfall came out. I think I would still rage in competitive pvp if it still existed. ~Shard 02:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I raged at the other team on Fetid today for beating us with IWAY. So what if it was randomway? IWAY shouldn't be allowed to win anything ever, imo. Raine - talk 02:22, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Needs more misery

Misery 15:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Needs more blue named Misery imo --adrin 15:18, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Blue Misery on Raine's talk? You best be on crack. Misery 15:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi.

^ =x Prose 02:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

New Section

"On talk pages (and a few other pages), next to the Edit tab at the top there is a "+" tab. Click on it to create a new section. This is useful if you want to create a new section on a talk page that is long (so you don't have to scroll down), but the bigger use is it sets the right edit summary automatically, so you don't inherit the old edit summary from the previous section and thereby confusing the ppl watching RC or Watchlist d-:" -PanSola

Friendly bitchy reminder is friendly. Vili >8< 04:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Bitchy friendly reminder is bitchy. I don't believe I've ever used that tab ever in my life ever. Ever. I suppose I could manually change the edit summary, to be considerate. But scrolling back to the top of Reggie's talk page... ehhhhh.... Raine - talk 05:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Generic platitudes about being nice to people gives good investment returns. Vili >8< 06:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikis tend to be full of features no one will ever use, except by people who want to prove the world that they are übermenschen on a userpage no one will ever read anyway. Ni Di 20:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

My user page is the best on the entire wiki. All the new users copy me. Misery 21:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Player Base

Saddly, the player base of just about every game is rotten to the core. You will always have the players that look for the gimmicky, or easy way out. You will always have the people who try to do what the skilled players can, without the same amount of effort. — Jon Lupen 02:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The part that saddens me isn't that these people attempt to "cheat", but that they're allowed to succeed at it. Raine - talk 02:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It sucks, I know. The less they can get away with it, the fewer people that will try, but the harder the few that are left will try. If there is ANY crack in your armor, it will be driven into, and split wide open. Part of it is that they are allowed, an equal, if not greater part, is that they can and will find ways to get away with it. — Jon Lupen 02:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I still don't like Golden Phoenix Strike

Flurry

Golden Phoenix Strike

Horns of the Ox

Falling Lotus Strike

Blades of Steel

Moebius Strike

Twisting Fangs

Critical Defenses

Needs LC necro with Rigor. Vili >8< 05:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I never understood why people like to use Blades of Steel with Moebius =/ Misery 09:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Because that chain, in order, does +800 damage. It's like Falling without requiring a KD. Needs a non-elite version, though, imo. Raine - talk 09:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

It does almost 60 DPS... ~500 damage in 8 seconds, not counting DW, according to the Master of Damage. It's hard to test hoto on him, though, because of the stupid practice dummies. I'm also not sure when it's best to use Flurry... it doesn't last long enough to finish the entire chain.

The only reason I am using Blades of Steel is because I was determined to make a bar that could use a full-powered BoS and also have Twisting Fangs. Moebius and Palm Strike are the only ways to do it...however, the 1.5 second delay of Palm Strike makes that kinda stupid. Vili >8< 10:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Personally I'd rather take Death Blossom over BoS for the AoE/ability to pressure with DB->Moebius, but if your goal is your goal as stated, more power to you. Misery 10:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

If I was going to do Blossom spam, this is certainly not the way I'd do it. :\ I don't even like BoS as a skill, since Death Blossom easily matches it for overall damage as long as you get even one AoE here and there...it also doesn't require absurdly long chains, and so you can take utility skills. BoS is a spike skill/finisher, but it's really for /A secondary, since Twisting Fangs is so good. Vili >8< 10:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

hai2u

The PvP Equipment Menu actually improved the gameplay for the average user though and affects how PvP works in a nutshell. (So do computers.) Instead of having to create items at the start up or strictly having to do PvE to get them, you can make them any time! The XTH is really stupid and shouldn't exist in the first place, giving everyone a lottery you can't lose is horrible and only makes everything become cheaper in the long run faster. The Pet deal is okay, remains to be seen how grindy it is, also helps IWAY, yay. Zkeys don't affect PvP gameplay at all, they just help make everything cheaper like the XTH, I'd also like to point out that they were going down in value as is, they went from 5k to 3.5k during the annual cycle, they would have hit ~2-2.5k anyways, which would give average predictions ~40k. The only thing Zkeys did was give lots of money to people who don't really need lots of money, and help people with the PvP only kit be able to do guild stuff. The positive effects Zkeys have on the PvP game is pretty non-existent, people who wanted to really look fancy, already managed to do that prior to Zkeys. They PvE'd etc. If you don't want to PvE, and don't want to wait for TRP, then don't look fancy! If you don't want to do the stuff to get the goods, then live with what you got imo? :\ I think the Destroyer Glove deals (molten handsss) look cool, but I don't want to waste time farming Destroyer Cores, so I live with not having them. Ultimately, looking cool doesn't win you battles, and while it's a neat thing to have fancy looking stuff faster, letting tons and tons of people get 100+k every month for no work is not really good for the game in the long run, especially when there's already no new content so everything is perpetually getting cheaper anyways. DarkNecrid 12:26, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I personally don't like the XTH ("Zkeys were always supposed to be a PvP thing, so let's give them to everyone!" lolwat?). However, that's not the only source of zkeys; there are many people who actually buy them with Balthazar faction (seriously, what else is there to do with it?). When I talk about the value of the zkey for the casual PvPer, I mean for the people who use their faction form casual PvP to buy keys. The people who actually used their balth for money, well, they're getting shafted, just like they got shafted with the addition of the XTH. That's not cool.

iiuc, before the J menu, it was still possible to manipulate gear, it was just a lot less convenient. Unnecessary, but nice. That's all I meant to say.

I don't have an issue with things being made harder to obtain. My issue is that things are being made harder to obtain for just one sector (note that having nice things is equally as unnecessary to play PvE as it is to play PvP. Pretty things just make people happy). That's basically telling PvPers, "Okay, you just have to live with what you got now, everyone else can continue on unhindered." That's not cool.

Let's talk about destroyer gloves. The thing about those is that you don't, in fact have to farm destroyer cores. You PvP, so let's say you were rewarded with a small amount of faction each time you played a PvP round, which is something that you enjoyed doing. You could then convert this faction to gold (or other items) through zkeys. Someone else, who enjoyed farming destroyers, could trade you an amount of destroyer cores equal to your keys' value. Both parties do what they enjoy, both parties are rewarded. You get your destroyer gloves, and you didn't have to farm; he gets his zkeys, and didn't have to PvP. It's win/win! But then, there's an update, and suddenly your zkeys are only worth half as many destroyer cores, so you have to work twice as hard to gain the same benefits as you would have before, and destroyer core guy has to work half as hard. The destroyer core guy wins, you're a sad panda. That's not cool.

I hope that clears things up... Raine - talk 12:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to buy the cores tho, and I don't think they're sold much anymore anyways. The reason you could buy Zkeys with Balthazar Faction is because PvE characters don't automatically get what you buy at a Priest of Balthazar, so instead of buying stuff their PvE character doesn't need, they can spend it on Zkeys for items for their PvE characters, really. I said before that you had a good argument and I see where you are coming from, but if I had to make the choice of letting tons and tons of people get tons and tons of free money every month (which in the long run hurts EVERY part of the game as everything becomes increasingly cheaper faster (and more boring)) or one sector of the game not being able to get stuff that it doesn't necessarily need (while your PvE armor deal is sound, getting fancier stuff is a part of the PvE experience in a nutshell) as fast as the other side that that type of stuff is especially meant for, I'm going to go with the latter since it only really sucks for part of the game, and in the long run being fancy doesn't do much except make you look a little better anyways. DarkNecrid 13:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The only issue there is that zkeys don't pump gold into the system (they just facilitate its redistribution). Things would sell for more and more zkeys as the zkey price went down due to the flooding of the market; q13 Voltaic Spears, for example, were 100k + 10z when I bought my first one; last I checked, they were 100k + 15z. In order to preserve the value of the good when the value of the medium is decreasing, the amount of medium needed to purchase a good increases; it's just inflation. Raine - talk 13:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

You're right they don't pump gold into the system per se, but they help distribute the Gold faster, whether that be to other people or to make it go poof. This kinda goes two ways, you have people (like me, actually) who hold onto the Zkey money they make and are just waiting for a good time to spend it (gonna be this April Update when I blow it all) and may spend some of it here or there, and then you have the people (people like you, lol) who blow it when they get it in most cases. While buying weapons/shields from other people doesn't do anything with the gold except move it, buying armor sets/consets/etc from vendors takes the gold away. So in essence a lot of money in this way just magically goes poof while supply of many objects goes down but so does the demand (since they have what they want) which makes stuff "cheaper" at the vendors. Granted, this isn't everybody going on a spending spree, but it's quite a lot of people. While your Voltaic Spear example is a good one, they're still held in too high regard to be affected by a short term value decrease imo (I'd give them ~ half a year before they start to really lose their value, probably just be barely above 100k), but other items (not so high in regard) have lost a lot of their value since the inclusion of Zkeys, generally the ones you buy at vendors. (Crafting Materials, Black Dye which went from 15k to 7k in the past year, etc...) DarkNecrid 03:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

A minor thing that came to me is that topic is assuming that the ZCoin to Zkey transaction will be relatively low, it could be that a Zkey winds up costing a buttload of ZCoins and the inherent market value of a Zkey barely goes down, although Zkeys will still go down to ~2-2.5k over the next year. DarkNecrid 05:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

How long you hold onto your money isn't relevant; I've been saving up for several things for a while, and I've got a pretty decent bank. But being suddenly told that if I keep doing the same thing, I'm suddenly going to be rewarded less for it (and, consequently, each and every every goal on that list will take longer to reach)... That's really not cool. The issue isn't "My monthly XTH splurges are going to be smaller now, onoez", but that "My regular income is going to be decreased" (and for what reason? To make the title easier? To make the exclusively-PvE crowd 'feel involved' in a game format that they still won't participate in?). Sure, I'll still be able to stock a couple of keys per day, but where I could get 2 keys and get 10k for them a short while ago, I'll only be able to get 8k today, and what next month? 6k? A perfect "Forget Me Not" is 20k. What was 4z (~two days) then is 5z (~2.5 days) now. A q13 VS is 150k. What was 30z (two weeks) then is 37z (two and a half weeks) now. It's really a saddening trend.

The value of Voltaics hasn't increased (if anything, the farming has led to a decrease in value), but the price has increased for people who get keys, because the value of keys has decreased (and will decrease further, after this update). Sucks for PvPers who wanted VS, right? But for the PvE players who get rewarded in straight gold (most drops are merch fodder, they're considered gold), there isn't a change, because the value of gold is constant. So yes, while Voltaic Spears are still held in too high regard to be affected by a short term value decrease in themselves, their price in zkeys, like the price of everything else, will increase.

A lot of items have lost value since the addition of zkeys, but not necessarily because of the inclusion of zkeys. You used black dye as an example, so we'll go with that. People who normally couldn't afford them sell zkeys, and suddenly they've got money. They go to buy black dye, and suddenly, there's a lot more people WTBing black dye. The demand increases, which would actually push the price up. I guarantee you that an increased demand due to zkey addition hasn't pushed the prices down; only a decrease in demand or an increase in supply could do that.

I am operating under the assumption that the zcoin -> zkey exchange rate will be relatively low, but it would have to be quite high not to cause a problem. Each day, there are two quests per character that a person could do (each yielding at least one zcoin) that have nothing to do with PvP. 2 coins per PvE char daily, easy. Let's say that a zkey cost, oh, a whopping hundred coins. That would push one key per day into the system for every 50 PvE players who chose to do the quests. That may not seem like anything spectacular, but because the PvE community is <boldicize>so, so very, very, very much</boldicize> larger than the hardcore PvP community, that would create a noteworthy increase in zkey supply. And remember, that's at 100 coins/key; do you honestly think it's going to be higher than that?

I just don't see any way this could go well for PvPers. Raine - talk 09:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh it won't go "well" for PvPers, no matter what some more zkeys will be included (even if it cost 1 BILLLLIONNN ZOINS) so the price will go down faster in some way, but tbh, it only affects a rather small minority of PvPers anyways. The top end PvPers use PvE characters most of the time so they can't use the TRP system anyways on those (and are rich enough from zkeys now that they probably have most anything they want...), and the low end is casual so they are probably PvErs anyways who can get that stuff without Zkeys (and prolly are the ones buying zkeys for Zaishen Chest openings), while the middle end (incredibly small now and days) either PvE/use TRP/might use zkeys to get the stuff lazily. But that's an incredibly small sector of people, the high end is going to have all the money they need anyways, and the low end is still going to buy additional zkeys if the zkey output from ZQuests are small (just for cheaper amounts). I won't argue that it won't be "bad" for PvPers who like making a lot of money, but oh well. I still maintain that it's PvP so in the long run it doesn't matter as much compared to many other pressing issues that PvPers are way more likely to care about (balance....). DarkNecrid 09:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh it won't go "well" for PvPers, no matter what some more zkeys will be included (even if it cost 1 BILLLLIONNN ZOINS) so the price will go down faster in some way, but tbh, it only affects a rather small minority of PvPers anyways. The top end PvPers use PvE characters most of the time so they can't use the TRP system anyways on those (and are rich enough from zkeys now that they probably have most anything they want...), and the low end is casual so they are probably PvErs anyways who can get that stuff without Zkeys (and prolly are the ones buying zkeys for Zaishen Chest openings), while the middle end (incredibly small now and days) either PvE/use TRP/might use zkeys to get the stuff lazily. But that's an incredibly small sector of people, the high end is going to have all the money they need anyways, and the low end is still going to buy additional zkeys if the zkey output from ZQuests are small (just for cheaper amounts). I won't argue that it won't be "bad" for PvPers who like making a lot of money, but oh well. I still maintain that it's PvP so in the long run it doesn't matter as much compared to many other pressing issues that PvPers are way more likely to care about (balance....).

This is a pretty boring debate, hopefully we can agree to just see what happens when the update goes live and we get the actual numbers. :P DarkNecrid 10:02, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Balance would be good. I heard that they would start putting more work into PvP balance after this update, so we'll see... Raine - talk 10:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Someone asked Linsey if they were adding new PvP maps in GTOB and she said "not in this build." :o DarkNecrid 10:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I think using PvE maps for PvP would be badass. Like a huge AB, with the res shrines as the cap points (maybe with a monk that spawned to heal people). 30v30 (five teams of 6). FTW. I'd take that over new GvG maps. ♥

And built-in VOIP would be wonderful, for stuff like AB and RA, where you can't share Vent info. Raine - talk 10:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Built in VOIP would be good, but I doubt they have the resources to do that, and their servers lag enough as is. :/ DarkNecrid 12:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

We all have regrets in life...

I should never have told you how to type the ♥. >.< Vili >8< 09:35, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I could do it before with alt+55555 (try it, it's delicious). But, as you can imagine, that's just annoying as hell, just like {{wub}}. You kind of lose the feeling after all that... And especially with the alt+55555, where you end up angrily tapping 5 after the first couple of gos. Alt+3 made the hearts so much more viable. It's just simple as, but so much more elegant than, <3. Raine - talk 09:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Misery 10:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

No need for typing or right clicking. Here's a tip. Highlight the sentence or word desire to be copied multiple times, Ctrl+C then Ctrl+V the night away or your heart to be exact.--ShadowFog 13:53, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Not a link to misery's archive showing a repetitious series of moos --Riddle 14:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

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Not a human heart.--ShadowFog 14:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I forgot

Q: How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Whereas the party of the first part, also known as "Lawyer", and the party of the second part, also known as "Light Bulb", do hereby and forthwith agree to a transaction wherein the party of the second part shall be removed from the current position as a result of failure to perform previously agreed upon duties, i.e., the lighting, elucidation, and otherwise illumination of the area ranging from the front (north) door, through the entryway, terminating at an area just inside the primary living area, demarcated by the beginning of the carpet, any spillover illumination being at the option of the party of the second part and not required by the aforementioned agreement between the parties.

The aforementioned removal transaction shall include, but not be limited to, the following. The party of the first part shall, with or without elevation at his option, by means of a chair, stepstool, ladder or any other means of elevation, grasp the party of the second part and rotate the party of the second part in a counter-clockwise direction, this point being tendered non-negotiable. Upon reaching a point where the party of the second part becomes fully detached from the receptacle, the party of the first part shall have the option of disposing of the party of the second part in a manner consistent with all relevant and applicable local, state and federal statutes. Once separation and disposal have been achieved, the party of the first part shall have the option of beginning installation. Aforesaid installation shall occur in a manner consistent with the reverse of the procedures described in step one of this self-same document, being careful to note that the rotation should occur in a clockwise direction, this point also being non-negotiable. The above described steps may be performed, at the option of the party of the first part, by any or all agents authorized by him, the objective being to produce the most possible revenue for the Partnership.

Vili >8< 05:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Simon Le bon said in an interview with "The Face Magazine": "How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 and the lightbulb has to want to change".--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 05:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)