ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Monk/Smiter's Boon (PvP)
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- 1 184.108.40.206's Issue - 21:46, 21 August 2008
- 2 220.127.116.11's Issue - 04:11, 22 August 2008
- 3 FunnyUsername's Issue --08:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
- 4 CrossfireXIV's Suggestion - 22:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
- 5 Y0 ich halt's issue - 14:45, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
- 6 Psych's Issue - 18:09, 23 August 2008
- 7 18.104.22.168's Suggestion - 01:05, 24 August 2008
- 8 22.214.171.124's Suggestion - 15:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC?)
- 9 126.96.36.199's Issue - 22:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
- 10 188.8.131.52's Suggestion - 21:33, 2 September 2008
- 11 Demosthenes' Opinion - 17:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- 12 Angelic Loki's Suggestion - 03:47, 5 September 2008
- 13 Ugg's Suggestion - 07:00, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- 14 Invincible Rogue's Suggestion - 00:35, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
- 15 Ashir's Suggestion - 8:19, October, 28, 2008 (Central Time)
- 16 Ulterion's Issue
- 17 Sabre Wolf's Suggestion:Convert Bonus Heal to Damage
- 18 Falconeye's Proposal
- 19 Bathory's Issue 02:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
- 20 184.108.40.206 20:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- 21 Boro 's Issue
220.127.116.11's Issue - 21:46, 21 August 2008
As Izzy himself stated: useless now.
Change into: Reduces spelldamage you deal by X% and smiting prayers heal 1-2 health per point in DF. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) at 21:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC).
- I think they did this as a temporary way to stop its over-usage in Random and Team Arenas. I'm pretty sure this is just a 'quick fix' until they come up with something better.
- I agree with your approach to it though. I think it should be like this:
- 10 Energy, 1 Cast Time, 45 Recharge. For 20 seconds, whenever you cast a smiting skill that targets an ally, that ally gains 1 health for each rank you have in Divine Favor. This enchantment ends if you use a non-smiting skill (this will make it harder to use other Divine Favor linked spells while its active).
- Or they could do it like this:
- 10 Energy, 1 Cast Time, 30 Recharge. For 5.....13..15 seconds, your Smiting Prayers attribute is raised by 2 and you lose 3 energy whenever you use a signet.
- Painted Bird 22:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
22.214.171.124's Issue - 04:11, 22 August 2008
- Issue: This skill existed for almost 12 months in the old form. Not a single touch was made to it. Out of the blue the skill was killed without a single attempt to try ANYTHING at all to balance it, not making it a maintained enchantment, reducing duration to half it's recharge time, removal if used with another enchantment or non smiting skill, casting spells while under this effect cause exhaustion (better than current form),any combination of the above, nothing. Also, this skill was a lot of fun to play with in Fort Aspenwood, Alliance Battles and Random Arenas. Nerfing it for TA killed it everywhere else, and it certainly wasn't a problem in those other arenas. More people play those arenas than do TA, but a skill being unbalanced in TA ruins it for the majority elsewhere?
- Suggestion: Don't makes skills completely useless (unlike previous complaints about being useless, this is utterly useless) when "balancing". It's condescending, offensive to your players, stealing a skill from us, shows no efforts to find a way to make the skill work (ie: like completely reworking the elites that got buffed, old form sucked/overpowered when useful so a new form was given to it). Making this PvE only would have been less offensive (but still unsatisfactory).
- Reduce duration to half it's recharge time.
- Remove the enchantment when a non smiting skill is uses OR another enchantment is cast (Reversal of Damage doesn't combo anymore).
- Make it a maintained enchantment.
- Reduce healing bonus.
- Change from healing bonus to a small damage bonus - similair to Mirror of Ice.
- Some kind of exhaustion when you cast more than two spells in 3 seconds or reworking of that.
- Only one can be active on the team at any one point (impossible maybe?)
- Doubles cost of spells/lose energy.
- Don't kill skills, balance them. Or at least try, we deserve at least that.
FunnyUsername's Issue --08:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
- Seems that healing and dealing damage at the same time is OP :D.
- In order to be able to heal better, reduce the damage dealt and make energy management harder:
- -1, 5, ¼, 15. Enchantment Spell. While you mantain this Enchantment, your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus but deal 50% less damage.
- ← moved to ArenaNet_talk:Skill_feedback/Monk/Smiter's_Boon_(PvP)#Funny Username's Issue
- 5, ¼, 10. Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, whenever you use a monk spell that targets a foe, that foe takes an amount of holy (or fire) damage equal to your Divine Favor bonus.
- This will give an offensive purpose to Divine Favor for pure smitting monk builds. The damage will only occur if the spell does not fail and only once per spell (doesnt stack with Ray of Judgement damage per second).
CrossfireXIV's Suggestion - 22:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
- → moved from Talk:Smiter's Boon (PvP)
5 energy, 20 recharge, 1/4 casting. Whenever you cast a smiting spell you gain 0...1...2 energy
5 energy, 20 recharge, 1 second casting. Your next 3...9...12 smiting spells deal +5...20...28 holy damage.
Just suggestions tbh. Btw this is crossfirexiv. I was too lazy to log in :)126.96.36.199 22:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Y0 ich halt's issue - 14:45, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Issue: I think this is more than obvious. I'm all for nerfing it, but I just don't like completely useless skills (nudges Mending).
- This even fits the name better. We're giving our smiter a boon. - Y0_ich_halt 14:45, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Psych's Issue - 18:09, 23 August 2008
Issue: This skill was killed out of nowhere with no attempt to balance it. The only explanation given that was reasonable is that it was op in TA. Well if Smiter's Boon is op in TA take a look at WoD first plox. See everyone's issue for the rest.
Suggestion: 1. Make it 10 1 30 or 10 1 45. That way enchant removal and interruption would matter and you would have to put a higher energy investment into the skill. 2. Make it elite. I don't like this one as much since one of the great things about smiter's was the versatility of their elite slot but at least this would be better than the pathetic, laughable, ludicrous state it is in now. 3. Keep it like this but just in GvG. Everyone knows you balance pvp around GvG. If you actually cared about TA it wouldn't be so incredibly screwed up right now. Doing this would allow the people in lower arenas to have their fun and keep people from getting pissed at having to fight 5 monks in GvG. Psychiatric Consultant 18:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
188.8.131.52's Suggestion - 01:05, 24 August 2008
Issue: Before writing, I'd like to rememeber there is a reason it was killed. If it were nerfed the wrong way it could be worse. Either it would need a second nerf or the nerf would make it useless already, but in this case they wouldn't bother rebalancing it. It was a little vague, I think they didn't want to have people expecting them to change it the next day or even next week, that's why they were so vague as to say "In the future, we may consider". Here is the whole sentence: "In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use."
Suggestion: One of the main problems on the skill is that it can keep it indefinity, costing little energy and combining strength of healing and protecting while dealing damage. Also there is little harm in removing it as it can be easily reapplied. It could use have a limitation for that so smiters don't stay so strong as healers, having "works on next 1..3 spells" linked to divine favor and it could keep all the rest untouched. 30 seconds duration, 5 energy, 1/4 activation time and 10 recharge time. Even if its usage is still unbalance, this change would make it far easier to control it. There is also a magic word on the description: double. This can be also tonned down for balancing. The other possible change would be using the same effect as zealot's fire, losing energy for each spell cast. All of these were already suggested by others. I believe they have the easiest way to control the skill's balancing. If the value of Divine Favor is to be reduced it can work in more than 3 spells. The issues on it are that it can be kept *indefinity*, removal has nearly *no effect* and the bonus *heavily outweights* the energy cost. 184.108.40.206 01:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
220.127.116.11's Suggestion - 15:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC?)
- Maybe the fact that it's been intentionally killed?
- 5 ½ 12
- Enchantment Spell. For 15 seconds, Smiting Prayers spells cast as though you have +0...2...2 to Smiting Prayers and heal allies for 1...12...15 health.
- Here the skill is useful again, but since it now grants only 1 extra health per rank of DF instead of 3.2, it shouldn't lead to quite as much healing from a support smiter as we saw before. Instead, an increase to Smiting Prayers makes it generally more useful for smiting both offensively as well as defensively, a bit like Glyph of Elemental Power. This allows use with a wider variety of skills, but the fact that it works only with spells stops abuse with things like Castigation Signet. Additionally, the halved duration mean that overrall it takes double energy and casting time (which has also been doubled) to keep it up, and since it's an enchantment it's not hard to remove. Thus, overrall it should nearly as useful as it was before, but in different ways so that it doesn't lead to nastiness as it did. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) at 15:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC).
22.214.171.124's Issue - 22:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
- Like everybody sais, it's killed this way
- Let's look at smiting prayers as they are without smiter's boon:
- -Signets deal ~50 damage each, good e-management, mediocre anti physical (bane signet/signet of rage) and a mediocre non-exhausting KD skill
- -Condition/Hex removal + good AoE damage
- -Reversal of Damage working like or next to Reversal of Fortune
- -Anti KD in the form of Balthazar's Pendulum
- -Damage boosting on an ally in the form of Strength of Honor
- -Scourge Healing/Enchantment/Sacrifice, skills that can be devastating in some builds but usually useless skills
- -And sure we have some more skills in smiting prayers, but apart from the above skills I believe those aren't used at all...
- To make a long story short, smiting prayers seems to be an OK skill set.
- Comparing them to Healing Prayers and Protection Prayers I think we can say the following (yes I know it's hard if not impossible to compare them); Healing Prayers add a big amount of health for each cast on top of the divine favor bonus (say 100-150 with commonly used HP spells); Protection Prayers add a very nice bonus for each cast on top of the divine favor bonus (block, max damage, condition removal and in some case healing), which - if used right - will have an even greater effect than Healing Prayers; Smiting Prayers deal damage, remove conditions and hexes and more (say ~50 damage with signets or ~80 AoE conditional).
- I think it's OK to conclude that Smiting Prayers can deal as much if not more damage per energy than healing prayers would heal - if used at the right moments. On top of that Smiting Prayers can remove hexes and conditions, ward allies from KD and prevent damage. It's hard to compare Smiting Prayers to Protection Prayers. But what I can say is that I think smiting prayers is good as it is.
- Now if we'd add a ~45 heal per cast of Smiting Prayers, I do think it becomes imbalanced - thus the current nerf is justified.
- Basically make Smiters Boon useful again even if it's just in niche cases. I'll think of a few possibilities that sound reasonable to me
- -1, 5, ¼, 15 Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this Enchantment, your Smiting Prayers will heal for X% more, but deal Y% less damage
- -1, 5, ¼, 15 Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this Enchantment, your Smiting Prayers will not receive divine favor bonus, but deal X% more damage
- -10, ¼, 20 Enchantment Spell. For 0..20 seconds, your Smiting Prayers receive double the divine favor bonus
- -10, ¾, 45 Enchantment Spell. For 0..60 seconds, your Smiting Prayers receive double the divine favor bonus
- -5, ¼, 30 Enchantment Spell. For 0..30 seconds, your Smiting Prayers receive double the divine favor bonus. This enchantment ends if you use a skill on an opponent.
- 1. A maintained enchantment will cost more energy and dealing less damage through smiting prayers will reduce the appeal to use Smiting Prayers. It will basically become an enchantment which will be useful when healing is prefered over damage and as soon as you'd prefer damage over healing you could release this enchantment again. Changing the values of X and Y accordingly I think this can be made in a good toolbox-like skill that encourages active and skilled play while not making it overpowered as it was.
- 2. This is to promote the use of smiting skills. It should be in divine favor as it is cuz else mesmers may abuse it. This way not only will smiting monks become useful in PvE as they may be able to get damage in the range of that of the ele (although it will be single-target), they will actually become very useful in PvP. However, I am afraid that Smiting Prayers actually become too powerful this way, so this may very well be OP that way.
- 3. I know it is a very powerful enchantment, but I think that increasing the energy cost and slightly reducing the duration may be enough to discourage the use of this skill too much. This way keeping up just Smiters Boon will cost approximately 2 pips of energy (not counting strips). Castigation Signet may only make up for say 2 energy regen leaving a smiter at 4 energy regen. Opposed to the nearly 6 energy regen it was before. This will reduce pressure and healing, but if this makes it balanced - I dunno...
- 4. These numbers are conjure-like. With a high recharge it will be much more problematic if this would be stripped. It may also encourage other players to bring enchantment removal, which in turn will improve skilled play. I can imagine that this will still be abused and will still be overpowered, but in that case ppl should just start bringing some/more enchantment removal :p
- 5. Recharge and duration are kinda random, but the idea is to remove the imba energy management from Castigation Signet. Without Castigation Signet the pressure and healing will be a lot lower, which will make it balanced I think.
My 2 cents :) 126.96.36.199
188.8.131.52's Suggestion - 21:33, 2 September 2008
- No attribute = bad. 25/90 = bad.
- Scale the healing bonus with Healing Prayers from 14...70...82%, which forces monks to spec 3 attributes instead of 2.
Demosthenes' Opinion - 17:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure most people understand what happened here. It was killed on purpose because it was imba and they couldn't think of a good balancing solution atm. At least give them till the next major balance update before flaming izzy for removing an annoying, imba, skill. Demosthenes 17:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Angelic Loki's Suggestion - 03:47, 5 September 2008
I wont harp on it being removed for now, I see one of two things making this a simple fix:
1- Update the energy cost to 10, reduce duration to the recharge of the spell, making it harder to maintain energy, requiring more then castigation.
2- Make it a 2 second cast, which is always a nasty thing on a monk, and allowing it to be countered with interrupts —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs) at 03:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC).
Ugg's Suggestion - 07:00, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- It's a bit harsh to kill a skill in such a way that it may as well be removed from PvP. There should be some way to compromise so that this skill still requires tact to play.
- How about making Smiter's Boon like Divine Boon as it is now, but for Smiting Prayers only, whilst at the same time, make Divine Boon for Protection Prayers only. This way, it makes all the X Boon similar in style. The alternative to making them similar in style would be to copy the format of Healer's Boon, but less healing for the protection/smite versions as Healer's Boon is an elite. Sorry if this sounds confusing, I'm new to wiki :P
Ugg 07:00, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Invincible Rogue's Suggestion - 00:35, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Old form was overpowered, new form is terrible
5E, 20 second duration, 30 second recharge 1 second activation For 20 seconds, you have +1 to your Smiting Prayers attribute. This Enchantment ends after you cast 1...6 spells. This Enchantment ends if you cast a maintained enchantment.
I think this would make it decent without being too good. The limit on spells would keep it from being spammed, as would the 30 second recharge. Ending on a maintained enchantment would keep it from being abused with Strength of Honor. Invincible Rogue 00:35, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Ashir's Suggestion - 8:19, October, 28, 2008 (Central Time)
- We smiters get one just ONE, dare I say "great" skill and it get's blown to oblivion. If it were up to me I'd keep the skill the way it was BUT however the circumstances require other plans be made.
- 10 energy, 1/4 Sec cast time, 25 sec Recharge. For 30 seconds your Smiting Prayers Have +33% Divine Favor Bonus. And deal 1 more damage for every 2 ranks in Divine Favor
- With the Energy and Recharge higher and the healing it provides effectively cut to one third, It will be much more vulnerable to removal and thus more easily countered. Also the extra damage while it can be used effectively is also not set incredibly high and is in tune with "Smiters" having the boon.
Ashir Lightwielder 8:19, October, 28, 2008
- None. (Leave it like it is LOL).
- If anything - 50 energy, 69 Sec cast time, 420 sec Recharge. For 3 seconds Izzy pops out and laughs at you. If interrupted, You take 999 damage, otherwise, you take 999 damage and all your skills are disabled for 100 seconds and your attributes are reduced to -10. All your allies resurrection attempts on you fail.
- There is none. Leave it the way it is now (LOL!).
Sabre Wolf's Suggestion:Convert Bonus Heal to Damage
Smiter's Boon (PvP): cost: 10e / cast time: 1s / recharge: 20s
- Enchantment Spell For 5..17..20 seconds: Your Divine Favor health bonus is halved and converted into damage bonus. (This bonus only applies to Smiting Prayers spells)
- This means that if you have 10 in Divine Favor, this would boost your Smiting Prayer's damage to +16 damage to your Smiting Prayers spells ONLY
- Note the damage would be Holy Damage. (armor ignoring)
- If you think about it, spells like Ray of Judgement would do 61 dgm/sec (45+16).
- Since this only affects Smiting Prayers, and the skill is Divine Favor based, Monk primaries are still the only ones that can use it.
- A full Divine Favor conversion to +32 damage seems too much...
Comments? - SabreWolf 07:13, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
- -WORST. NERF. EVER.
- -PvP- Smiter's Boon -
- -PvE- Smiter's Boon -
- --Falconeye 05:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- I was going to suggest something like this. +1 smiting prayers 10 second duration, 20 second recharge.--220.127.116.11 21:34, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Bathory's Issue 02:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
- Over-nerfed(obviously). While it was necessary to remove this quickly, there has been no action taken since then to make this skill usable. Making it give only an attribute boost would make it more focused on dealing damage. If necessary, it can have an end effect that triggers when they cast a spell that targets an ally, or when they use a non-Smiting Prayers skill. For PvP, this should be a skill focused on increasing the damage of Smiting Prayers while making the monk dip in to Divine Favor to avoid the use of non-Monk skills (such as Rend Enchantments for spiking).
- Enchantment Spell. (15 seconds) You have +0...2...2 Smiting Prayers.
18.104.22.168 20:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- For 5...17...20 seconds, your Divine Favor bonus for Smiting Prayers spells is increased by 20...64...75%.
Now rangers can d-shot it, it's not maintainable anymore, and DF bonus isn't that high.
Boro 's Issue
- Inconsistent nerf, no attempt to change it into something the skill's name suggests.
- Reasoning & Explanation
- The skill's name implies that this spell gives some benefit for the smiter itself, not those who the smiter aids. with this change the skill is both interruptable and removing it is also a good option.