User talk:Bathory/Suggestions/Monk

Divine Favor

Spell Shield

Just make it

5 ¼ 12 or similar. 1/4 cast means it will help vs spikes, 5 energy is good enough considering it only blocks the next spell. Pika Fan 02:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

That's true, especially since it's similar to the function the new Aegis has, I don't think either of those would be an issue. Bathory talk 00:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Hows this version (experimenting)? ^_^ --Falconeye 05:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

• Spell Shield -

5 ¼ 12 - (Divine Favor) - Enchantment Spell. (3 seconds). You cannot be the target of hostile spells and attacks against target ally fail. End effect: Your Divine Favour attribute is set to 0 10...6...5 seconds.

Withdraw Hexes

While I like the idea, I am a little apprehensive about a party-wide PnH. Removing 2 hexes pretty much removes most of the hexes that matter. I would say increasing the cast time in PvP to make it more risky to use, considering the energy cost is easily settled via GoLE. I would like to see this as a viable counter against teams that bring 2 or more hexing characters and try to overpower teams that don't spec against hexways. Pika Fan 06:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe. A one second cast time is already pretty exposed when it comes to monks (when I used to run LoD/Infuse I'd always have PBlock mesmers crawling all over me when I went to cast it after a spike) and that's not to mention spam-rangers. If anything, wouldn't lowering the energy return be better for PvP? I was thinking of hexes like Suffering when I thought of this, where you'd gain a lot of energy against necromancers that spread hex stacks on everything. Against Mesmer hexers, or some other type of hexes (there are a couple Elementalist hexes that are pretty common, and the rare Ritualist hex) that this would be pretty weak against. Maybe in PvP there shouldn't be any Energy gain at all? Maybe some other type of benefit that would reward using this at the right time as opposed to against the right team? Bathory talk 18:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I would say the risk has to be bigger for a better effect. It's like Aegis, it was 15 energy, 2 cast but primary monks still brought it to GvG and made pressure disappear the moment they put it up. Likewise, removing 2 hexes from every member makes any hex pressure disappear, although the skill itself would be useless against non-hexways. Like I said, I am only slightly apprehensive, just wanted to voice out certain concerns.Pika Fan 04:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

No, really. It's great. We disagree on a lot of stuff but it's really because we enjoy different parts of the game, and therefore have different viewpoints. The only thing I have to say to that is that Aegis was non-elite, and allowed them to carry an elite that could be used in tandem with it. This isn't that allowing, and since it only focuses on Party-wide, shallow hex removal - it can't be used if say only one or two of your party are hexed (such as only your warriors or monks being hexed), because you'd lose a lot of energy. And every time I've monked in GvG Energy was always harder to keep track of than positioning. xP Bathory talk 07:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I suppose 1 cast time should be enough considering that it's pretty niche and elite. The energy cost should still be reduceable, though.152.226.7.213 07:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Healing Prayers

Healing Hands

How about adding a reverse Fragility function? ^_^ --Falconeye 04:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

• Healing Hands -

5 ¼ 8 - (Healing Prayers) - Elite Enchantment Spell. (3 seconds) Heals for 5...29...35 whenever target takes damage and each time they gain or lose a condition and hex.

...Why? Really the only problem on this skill is the recharge. In PvE and PvP you'll need your elite more than every 25 seconds. It doesn't need any flashy new effects, it just needs a better duration/recharge. Bathory talk 06:49, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Healing Ribbon

Healing Ribbon is actually balanced, just that it isn't seeing use because, let's be frank here, people would want a guarantee that the splash healing is actually healing the right targets(and you can't spam it like patient). I highly doubt many monks would use your version simply because you would have to keep renewing (and 10 energy hurts for a monk)the enchantment. Pika Fan 06:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking of PvE when I thought of this. =P But yeah, this skill probably wouldn't see use on any of my bars in any way. I'll have to work on this one. xP Bathory talk 18:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

It might have a niche place for places like HA, where you are pretty much balled up, still you can't guarantee the right targets are being healed when the cost is so high. The closest fix I can think of is to

5 ¼ 15 for 10...26...30 seconds, each time you cast a healing prayers spell on target ally, other allies in the area are healed for 3 health per rank in divine favor. Move it to DF, and it does look like a non-elite Healer's Boon and somewhat similar to healing burst.Pika Fan 04:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I stitched up the current skill and parts of your suggestion. I hope you don't mind. o.o; Bathory talk 22:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Healer's Covenant

I see that you like this skill... just out if curiosity, why is that so when the overal opinion of this elite is unfavorable? ^_^ --Falconeye 06:18, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it not possible to like an UPed skill? I like Healing Light, but it's not good at all....Pika Fan 11:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I run this in Random Arenas. It's better than WoH there. If they changed it, I would be alright with it only if it was an improvement. However, it functions well there, somewhat in TA and probably in other areas of the game (AB probably since you can bring a "TA-like" team set-up, or smaller areas of PvE where your max party size is 4). However, since I use it to a good effect, there's nothing wrong with it as far as I'm concerned. Bathory talk 19:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I tried running it before in RA, WoH is still light years better if you don't suck at e management. Pika Fan 19:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

HC is immune to VoR for the most part. Shame and Diversion are a little more problematic, but the ability to remove conditions and hexes, heal whenever an ally does something without even having to cast a skill blows WoH out of the water if you're fighting a mesmer. Not to mention Contemplation is great for healing up over spikes or killing off pressure. For weeks I've always seen a mesmer on one or both teams. In terms of healing power, Word of Healing will always be the better. Holy Veil just usually doesn't cut it with the amount of mesmers buzzing around. Bathory talk 22:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, it's also about five times easier to run than Word. xD I'll still be able to heal well if I'm half asleep or only half paying attention. Bathory talk 22:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Contemplation means you have to load yourself with enchantments, which is counterproductive since you have to cast in order to remove, which triggers VoR, backfire and diversion. Holy veil means immunity to VoR, because you remove the hexes that matters. HC means you have to spam = interrupt/diversion fodder, since you need more casts in order to achieve the same effect. It's just inferior to WoH now, which is why people don't run it after the HC nerf. Pika Fan 00:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of the nerf either. However, since you'll always have Vig Spirit and HC on you, casting Patient Spirit on yourself and then using Contemplation will result in healing you more than you'd lose even with both hexes on you. I'm not saying it's perfect - it's just so easy to use that it excels in RA. It's not great, but I still like it. And I'd never use it outside of RA, really. It would work in AB and all that, but WoH is more useful when someone might be far off and half dead by the time you reach them. Holy Veil isn't immunity, just utility against them The recharge on it gives you two uses before you're likely to get hit with a hex. Oh, and the only skill with more than 1/4th cast on the HC bar I use is Dwayna's Kiss. Which I barely ever use anyway - so I'm also pretty free of interrupts. The occasional luck shot will get me, but it's usually not a big deal. Bathory talk 19:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Vigorous Spirit isn't popular anymore. Vili 点 22:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

(Reset) God forbid the build I'm using isn't popular. It works, and it takes about half the effort. It's just weaker to different things. Spike damage pretty much wrecks me when I'm HC, but stuff like PBlock or Ranger spam that hurts when I'm WoH is hardly noticeable when I run HC. I like it and I don't think they should change it. Why is this conversation still going? Bathory talk 23:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Protection Prayers

Pacifism

Same argument as spell shield. Blocking one attack skill shouldn't amount to 2 cast time/10 energy cost. Monks certainly will not bring it anywhere. Pika Fan 06:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

It blocks attack skills though, which means I wouldn't want to suggest it as being uber-powerful only to have it nerfed to something like this. Maybe 52 or 101? I'd sort of like to keep the suggestion interrupt-prone, as all non-elite block skills should be. Bathory talk 18:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Considering your pensive has {{gr|5|1|5}.... Well, I think 2 cast time is a bit too much, since guardian blocks all.Pika Fan 03:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Pensive Guardian

Guardian is still a million times better. Pika Fan 02:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The point wasn't to make this better than Guardian, just better than it currently is. Bathory talk 00:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Protective Bond (PvP)

Hi, my name is Protective Bond (PvP). For 9 seconds, I completely stop all spikes, and is better than my cousins Spirit Bond (PvP), Infuse Health and Protective Spirit. Please put me on a monk bar forever. Pika Fan 02:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

If your spikes use less than 8 attacks over a period of 9 seconds, you're not spiking. Bathory talk 00:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you not understand why this skill is overpowered? It reduces all damage to >32, and 8 packets of damage means any monk can catch the spike with holy veil. Yes, just purely via divine favour heals. Pika Fan 06:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Uh, most spikes that I've seen contain more than 8 skills, and the good ones include Enchantment removal. Assuming this is already on someone, it will more than likely be stripped. If it's thrown in the middle of a spike it would still only affect up to the next 8 skills. And if that is a problem, that number can always be reduced for PvP. However, you're really not coming up with any actual logical evidence besides the typical "qq op". Since, as I've stated 8 skills over an 8 second period isn't a spike, and most homogenous caster spikes have 14 to 16 skills they spike with. (Example: Lamentation -> Spirit Burn times 7.) Balanced spikes worth anything have Necromancers or Mesmers that strip Enchantments (see Rend Enchantments or Shatter Enchantment) and even if a spike fails these type of spikes also exert pressure that this skill would be pretty worthless against. So, while I can agree with you that the change makes this skill much more powerful, I don't see where you're getting your "Stop all spikes". Bathory talk 18:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Any clean spike is not prottable if you hit in an enchantment removal at the correct time, does that stop prot monks from bringing spirit bond? Every spike definitely has more than 8-10 packets of damage, does that stop prot monks from bringing spirit bond? The point of prot spike catches is to buy as much time as possible for your infuse to heal and clean up the rest of the damage. Protective bond does that, a little too well simply because while not all damage can trigger spirit bond, most forms of spike damage definitely attempts to hit above 5%. Pika Fan 04:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

So halving the number of attacks/spells would qualm that fear of yours? The reason I thought Spirit Bond was so popular (and why i brought it) was because it would heal a majority of the spike, instead of just lessening it like Prot Spirit. This wouldn't heal anything even if it is preventing more than Prot spirit, and to make up for that it's a lot shorter and harsher on energy than Prot Spirit is. To me that seemed like a fair balance between the three. With Prot Spirit it'll stop a lot of damage assuming they don't strip any enchantments - and it continues to last. Spirit Bond will heal a lot of the damage if you use it at the right time. Prot Bond would prevent a lot of damage if you used it at the right time, but doesn't keep lasting after the spike and requires you to use another skill to heal what was inevitably lost anyway... Bathory talk 07:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Honestly speaking, I like the concept of this skill because it's going to be another viable way to stop spikes, especially against teams who purposely hit under spirit bond which makes it hard to prot. The only problem is to actually finetune the numbers so it doesn't completely overshadow other anti-spike options. 152.226.7.213 07:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

(Reset) Yeah. So setting it to the same amount as Spirit Bond would be too much because it lowers it so much more. However, halving it would probably be akin to how they nerf everything else. Only one thing really needs to change... I'll give it some thought and change it as soon as something fair comes to mind. =P 3/4s of the amount of attacks, maybe? Bathory talk 07:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Shield Guardian

You obviously don't know how retardedly powerful smiteway is, especially in small maps like HA. Giving shield guardian 5 recharge, 5 energy and ward/well aoe range is just plain OPed. Pika Fan 02:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I just took from other smiting skills. This only does one block, less damage and the "in the area" is taken from Smite Hex and Smite Condition neither of which have been nerfed because of "Smiteway". Most of the skills that are influential in "smiteway" have been taken care of, such as Smiter's Boon and Strength and Honor. Removing conditions and hexes and causing block are all reactive and avoidable, deal minimal damage have longer recharges than their non-smite cousins. (Guardian would be the one to look at here). I don't believe that changing this skill would break HA, especially since Smiter's have had their healing cut in half and no longer buff melee players as well as they did. And, with the fact that there are only 8 skills on a bar, someone choosing this over something like Smite Hex that could be used to remove something like Diversion off of your monk or over Smite Condition and getting rid of Blind or Deep Wound just for some minimal holy damage and blocking one, little regular attack isn't someone I'd be worried about facing. While I'm aware you and all your people are all QQSmite most of the time adding or buffing a skill that isn't already used doesn't make it the meta's new pet. I'm pretty sure that changing this useless Protection skill to a Smiting skill that has some use (mostly in PvE areas where undead are heavily encountered like Shards of Orr, or in AB where minions are prevalent) isn't going to destroy the fabric of HA like other skills have or continue to do. Since this is your last comment here I'd just like to thank you for the one comment you made that had a useful opinion in it. ^^ Bathory talk 00:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, it would actually make smiters viable in PvE, but I still stand by my point: this gives smiters too much offense without sacrificing defense. Pika Fan 06:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

One block on a regular attack is way too much defense, isn't it? Bathory talk 18:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

For 5 energy, does a great ton of AoE damage and blocks, yeah, I would definitely say this skill does too much. Pika Fan 04:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

But it blocks once. And not even in the useful "I just killed your assassin chain" SBash way. Bathory talk 07:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Even if it didn't block, it's pretty damn powerful. Vili 点 08:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Because? It's the same range as Smite Hex and Smite Condition, and the damage maxes out the same place SCond does. It's trigger effect is weaker than both of those. Lowering the damage even a little more than that would really make it pointless since it's such a short enchantment and 1 second cast is relatively long for monk skills. Lowering it to even the lowest damage from a Smiting skill would make it 25 - which is worthless. And while it's fine that you believe it's too powerful because of "Smiteway" this skill by itself would be an issue because of it's...? Which would mean my suggestion should change by altering the...? I can't finish those sentences for you... Bathory talk 00:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you should change it to cause healing on allies instead. Holy damage in protection prayers? Mediggo 06:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

((reset)) It says "Move to Smiting Prayers". Bathory talk 09:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Smiting Prayers

Word of Censure

As elite version of your Shield Guardian? ^_^ --Falconeye 06:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

• Word of Censure -

10 ¼ 5 - (Smiting Prayers) - Elite Enchantment Spell. (3...9...10 seconds.) 75% chance to block. Ends if target fails to block. Block effect: foes in the area are dealt 15...63...75 Holy damage.

No. Pika Fan 11:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Block doesn't even fit the name no matter how you stretch it. Plus - "Words" are spells. Word of Healing is the only one that comes to mind, though. Also Pika, hasn't Falconeye posted this under the PvE suggestion of this skill? =P I understand you hate my Shield Guardian suggestion - but you've said that it's because of GvG/HA....and not PvE... Bathory talk 09:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh this is PvE? I was under the impression it was both. If so, it's fine, because RoJ is light years better. Pika Fan 09:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The suggestion I made on this skill I believed would incite spikes in PvP, so I split it up. He made his suggestion to PvE, although I'm not really sure if he knows it either. I mean, the other one says (PvP) so I figured it was obvious. But, I wrote it. It all seems obvious to me. Bathory talk 19:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)