ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Assassin/Desperate Strike

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All the numbers can be changed for balance, but I think the overall idea of it would make this a useful skill, without rendering it overpowered (recharge, energy, or damage may need to be tweaked a little- just one or two of them, NOT all three). --Kalas Silvern 05:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC) Meh. How about a "If this skill does not result in a kill, you lose all energy/are knocked down/lose x health? -- NUKLEAR IIV 12:57, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Either lose x energy or lose x health (5 energy?) could work. I'd rather not make assassins more fragile than they already are due to the lack of truly good defensive options, but the idea could work as long as the losses are reasonable. I think knockdown would be a bad idea, since I feel that assassins should be more mobile than other melees, specifically because they have fewer defensive options. --Kalas Silvern 23:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

silvern idea on making it work after the combo would be cool, but how about let it stay withing the combo, either offhand or dual, with same effect, cause more likley you'll suffer damage during the combo then before, thus making the situational damage easier. Of course, if you think about it, this attack was probably made with the idea of staying in battle in mind instead hitting and running. with that in mind i think an added effect would be nice, like unblocking (up the recharge of course) or have the damage life stealing instead,( number would have to drop also) to go with the idea of your desperate, just a few idead, anyways if skills like these does get a buff, it would improve the use of dagger sins --Metal Sazz 00:31, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

That's along the lines of what I'd like- frontline capability that maybe isn't on par with warriors for survivability and sustainability, but is still efficient at real pressure instead of spike pressure (the pressure of a spike being able to come from nowhere). That way, you get a mobile frontliner that isn't quite as sustainable, and doesn't have as good of defenses. My aim with balancing melees would be to make it so they are alternatives to each other, not direct replacements. For this skill though, the problem is that your own health % is something that you cannot directly control (outside of health sac, which doesn't go well with a sin, and would probably be healed within seconds by a competent monk, especially if you call the skill). Life steal if hp < a certain amount is interesting though, though by nature of requiring a loss of hp it has to come at the end. My overall idea for this was to take it out of the combo and use it coupled with other changes to create a viable 4 skill pressure combo, since it puts the control in the user's hands instead of the opponent's. Maybe the condition could be that if it doesn't kill the opponent, or if it misses/is blocked, the sin would sacrifice health. I'm extremely wary of making the idea unblockable though, since it's meant to do a fair amount of damage, kind of like a third hit on a dual attack. And I agree, dagger sins need a buff, but the more important point is that they need change. --Kalas Silvern 08:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Lann's suggestion

Glad to see others thinking about the same skills. To be honest, I thought about a similar change, but two things made me go with the above one instead. First, why are you desperate when their health is below 90%? Second, Unsuspecting is already around 100 damage. The spike from these two together would be horrendously powerful- as in, 170ish some damage if you take the 100 some of unsuspecting and add say, 50+20 (+ damage and crit). That's a bit too strong, even for someone who wants assassins to be good- remember, you have a dual attack coming after that that could be doing well over 100 damage. Overall, I like the idea of improving L-O-D, but this is a bit too powerful. --Kalas Silvern 11:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Then increase the cost to 10 energy for desperation, make the assassin pay? -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I love Lann's idea. Heres a skill version I thought of off the top of my head. Deals +10...22, and if target is below 15...75...90% health, deals an additional 10...34...40. Honesly, that may even be too much, considering the trigger is your attempt or the attempt of many other cool leet teammates to murder the target. It would create some cool combos though.ArisB24.205.38.234 06:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Approximate damage calculations for that, assuming unsuspecting strike is the lead and both hits critical at 15 dagger mastery: 20(critical)+ 53(Unsuspecting) (I could've sworn that bonus was higher), then add +20(critical) + 62 (unsuspecting). That's 155 damage right there, while the next comparable combo- golden fox to wild strike is 40(two crits)+60 or so. A bit too powerful as it is, since you're getting a high damage Dual after that, followed by impale, which is a nice 40 or so damage + deep wound with 3 deadly arts. 155+(Dual attack- we'll assume 120 damage)+35(armor affecting impale, so I won't give the entire bonus, just give it a number that's easy to add)+100(Deep Wound) gives... 410 damage from that alone, and you can throw in another unsuspecting for an extra 30-50 damage if you have the energy. Quite strong when recharge is considered. And the question that hasn't been answered is how are you desperate when the opponent is below 90%? --Kalas Silvern 21:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Desperate to get the kill before you, being an assassin, die. --Lann 21:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

And of course, since this condition is easier to meet, the dmg would of course would be lower than that of unsuspecting (or have a high recharge). --Lann 21:28, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're desperate to get a kill, they wouldn't have much health, would they? Sorry, I see what you're trying to do, but I personally feel it doesn't fit the skill, and as a final skill that does something like disable your own for a second, it has a more "desperate" feel to it. --Kalas Silvern 02:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I got an idea: " Lead attack. Must follow a dual attack. If this attack hits a foe with less than 50% health, you do 10...40 more damage and cause a Deep wound." Maybe, butI like the idea of lead following dual. -- NUKLEAR IIV 11:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

(resetting indent before it gets annoying) Nuklear, I really like that idea. Fits with both suggestions, and gives the idea of desperate (to do another combo). Now for a short recharge offhand other than wild strike to go with it. We already have death blossom for the dual I guess, though I'd like to see an alternate to it. --Kalas Silvern 18:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea of this skill being actually useful. Of course there are many ways to make this skill useful, but if you want to stay true to the name I guess most possibilities will not work... imo "desperate" means you're doing something as a last resort. I'd think you'd do something only as a last resort when you're dying yourself or because it brings "other" disadvantages. Currently the "you nearly die" part is active, but it's nearly useless as it is (except perhaps in certain farming builds or so). I'd add something like a "you are KD'd" (like drunken blow), "you lose all energy", "you lose X life", "all your attack skills are recharging for X seconds". At least those are serious trade offs that might make you not use this skill unless you'd have something to help ur build with. It might be a good pressure skill this way but I'm sure there are better ways to work with 62.194.247.7 00:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)