ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Assassin/Impale

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No. If the assassin decided to spec high in Deadly Arts, he deserves to get 100 damage out of Impale. 222.127.198.144 13:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Shinde

Putting points into Deadly Arts doesn't make you more deserving of anything as far as I know. It is about limiting their spiking. Since their best skills are all in Deadly Arts, your build only gets better when you move points from Crit/Dagger to it. Although I agree you should get something out of that, a 100 damage Impale combined with all other effects is just too much. Dutchsmurf 13:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

/agree with Dutchsmurf. Assassins can do mssive amounts of damage with this skill, as if DW didn't do enough... Mr.Hobo 21:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

+1. --71.229.204.25 21:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Err if you want to run Dancing daggers+ Mantis Touch+ Vampiric Assault, more power to you. There's no deadly arts offhand attack that recharges quickly. Wouldn't mind this being bumped down though (it does ~60 damage and deepwound at moderate 8 deadly arts). --Life Infusion «T» 03:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It is mainly a problem in GvG when you can easily use Shroud of Silence, Siphon Speed, Vampiric Assault, Impale, Dark Prison, Iron Palm and Signet of Toxic Shock on your bar. Then all you need is something to cause Poison to trigger the signet. Which can be done with Falling Spider, which doesn't require that much points into Dagger Mastery to be effective. Dutchsmurf 13:29, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

that is a horrible sin bar to take to gvg... a weak spike every 20 seconds? impale already been nerfed, and this is only deadly after a long dagger chain, using it on a deadly arts chain wont do as much dmg, and certainly not as fast as a war or derv 76.26.189.65 14:26, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

You don't nerf a perfectly balanced skill because of a handful of GvG bars (which are also fine btw). Other than those, 15 deadly is rare for sins. 222.127.223.69 23:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)Shinde

Actually yes, you do nerf skills because they are a problem in GvG. GvG is the main PvP format and should always come first when it comes to balancing. Of course a change shouldn't give problems in other formats just so it works fine in GvG, but you can't say this change will do that. To anyone saying the Deadly Arts chain isn't strong or that assassins don't run 15 Deadly Arts, I'm guessing you didn't play any GvGs in the last 2 months, neither did you observe one. If you did, you would know it is very viable and very strong.

'that is a horrible sin bar to take to gvg', probably explains why that bar and similar ones have won the MAT twice in a row now.... Dutchsmurf 11:22, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

thats not an arguement the old "people used it to win... nerf quick!" 76.26.189.65 00:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

^lol good one 222.127.209.212 02:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde

The argument was that assassins rarely use 15 Deadly Arts, I pointed out that you lived under a rock the last months. Same about what you called a 'horrible sin bar'. I don't want to nerf it because people are winning with it, I want to nerf it because the skill and his brothers in the same line get insanely strong with high Deadly Arts. I don't think Izzy ever considered people doing that, so those skills just aren't balanced for it. If you think the skills are fine, no problem, ok for me. But so far your arguments were just not based on the current (and the recent history of the) gvg metagame. Dutchsmurf 11:32, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Running a high Deadly Arts spec used to gimp you badly, now that we have Vampiric Assault, this is no longer the case. Either Vampiric Assault needs to be addressed to bring Deadly Arts back to the utility line status that it used to be, or everything else needs to be adjusted. Riotgear 07:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

HMMM perhaps it was introduced so you WOULDNT be gimped? The old sins had a very inflexible attribute spread. Having a deadly arts dual is necessary. 222.127.223.69 21:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde

If that is the case then that was a stupid idea. That, or the whole line needs to be balanced so that it doesn't give problems anymore. Deadly Arts was always fine, until you suddenly could make it your main attribute. Dutchsmurf 11:22, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

By problems you mean it kills stuff? What kind of logic is that? Every attribute should be viable as a main. It's called DEADLY arts btw, not "utility arts". 222.127.223.69 12:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde

And by that logic, Decapitate should be killing people instantly, because I'm unaware of anyone that lives through decapitation. Keeping something balanced is more important than keeping it named appropriately. And no, not every attribute needs to be viable as a main, Deadly Arts is a utility attribute line just like Inspiration, Shadow Arts, Tactics, Earth Prayers, Wind Prayers, etc. And of course, there are gimmick builds based on maxing most of those attributes, but pretty much every sane build uses them at a low spec for utility. Deadly Arts was the same way, until Vampiric Assault broke it. Riotgear 15:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

i think what shinde means is that deadly arts is meant to kill, thats what a sin is all about, they kill fast and effective. nerfing skills like impale would just demote the whole profession down. why should one area of the game (gvg) dictate what a skill should be. if they find it a problem then come up with a way to counter it. it ain't rocket science. Metal Sazz 2:18 21 April, 2008 (UTC)

You're right that some attributes are primarily for utility and are fine at low spec for most of their skills, but 1 or 2 skills in those "utility attributes" do big damage at high spec like obsidian flame and vapor blade. That is what impale and vampiric assault are to deadly arts. 222.127.223.69 22:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde

But if you do decide to put many points in those attribute, it always comes with a cost. If I put max points in them, my main attribute (like weapon mastery, fire/air) becomes less effective. Deadly Arts is different because you don't need other attributes anymore to be effective. It changed from a support attribute to a self-supporting one. Dutchsmurf 13:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

You still need respectable dagger points. It is simply a matter of attribute redistribution to get the most net effect. Like spreading between divine, healing and prot; a few more seconds of guardian is insignificant so putting the points elsewhere is better in the long run. 222.127.223.69 23:14, 4 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde

That is exactly the problem, you don't need that many points in dagger mastery since you are only using 1 skill that benefits from that and the auto-attack damage is bad anyway. And that 1 skill does fine without points in it too. Dutchsmurf 16:11, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

^Read your own post again. The way you describe it doesn't look problematic. It looks logical. lol self-pwnage. btw you still have to meet the minimum req of your daggers, although obviously they put more than that. That is not a negligible investment. 222.127.203.78 23:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)Shinde

the cast time nerf already killed it imo, at least bring the cast time back to 1/4 if you wanna nerf the dmg >.> --J0ttem™ 12:12, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

True. Prokiller88 16:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

"But if you do decide to put many points in those attribute, it always comes with a cost. If I put max points in them, my main attribute (like weapon mastery, fire/air) becomes less effective. Deadly Arts is different because you don't need other attributes anymore to be effective. It changed from a support attribute to a self-supporting one." hows that reallydifferent, there are lot of attribute can be self supporting, a warrior acting like a meat sheild can only use tactics if they want, MMs Uses high death magic for there minion, and i see many ele out there that only uses fire magic to kill stuff, so really it not like it so different other then deadly arts is better at it--Metal Sazz 01:56, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Needs a reduce in recharge to be effective, 12 second recharge and decreasing damage by 10 would help this skill be more balanced change actually just changing the scaling of damage to be 40...60...66 would work~>Sins WDB 21:56, 28 October 2008 (UTC)