ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Elementalist/Obsidian Flesh
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Same issue as with Mirror of Ice: it is just as powerful as (or sometimes even less powerful than) other defensive skills, thus making it pointless to bring since you might as well bring another defensive skill. In PvP, this skill actually makes you more vulnerable, because of the melee dominance. Since you have to sacrifice either energy management or damage for a (lousy) defensive skill it needs a buff. Lowering the duration or add exhaustion, but please remove the rediculous movement penalty. Thank you for reading this Izzy, even of you don't change the skill or reply. 145.94.74.23 10:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Obsidian flesh will never be used in pvp,simply because of the fact it is not necesarry to bring a tank,only bodyguard uses spells on you (so also not effective to gank) and its selftarget only (so you cant save youre monk or ghostly hero with it).It is menth to be a pve skill only and although youre buff is nice and wont harm anyone it is quite unnecesary.Lilondra 13:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Keep obsidian flesh the way it is, i'm quite sure it wasn't made with the thought of being used in pvp. It currently has good use in pve anyway -_- 65.34.193.183 13:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Wait, wait, how about bar compression? First, lower recharge to 20, lover cast time to 1/4 secs, up the armor bonus to 80, keep the movement penalty. Still not a pvp skill, but more of an elite panic button and less of a joke. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 14:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- There is a difference between a tank and a self-defense skill, if you can't even tell that difference then please do not post. Why do some monks bring Shield Bash? To defend themselves. Does that make them tanks? Some self-defense can go a long way in PvP, especially on casters, and immunity to spells also means (partial) immunity to Mesmers, which could be worth the elite slot. It's just killed by the fact that as soon as you use it, you'll get swamped by melee and no immunity is worth that. 145.94.74.23 20:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Lilondra phrased it badly. Lemme put it like this: No elite slot is worth a self defense elite. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 15:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree. Theres plenty of situations in pve and low lvl pvp where its appropriate to carry things like ob flesh, shadow form, and melandru's resilience.--Ryudo 15:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- We are talkign about Pvp, ryudo. and no, taking a self defense elite in pvp is bad. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 16:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- So just because you wouldn't take it, you don't want anyone else to be able to either? 145.94.74.23 07:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- When you get idiots being worthless turrets in RA or Ab on your team, you may care somewhat more. That said, I'm proposing a buff, dude. A buff for pvp, because this will NEVER get used as t stands properly. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 12:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- So just because you wouldn't take it, you don't want anyone else to be able to either? 145.94.74.23 07:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- We are talkign about Pvp, ryudo. and no, taking a self defense elite in pvp is bad. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 16:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree. Theres plenty of situations in pve and low lvl pvp where its appropriate to carry things like ob flesh, shadow form, and melandru's resilience.--Ryudo 15:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Lilondra phrased it badly. Lemme put it like this: No elite slot is worth a self defense elite. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 15:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Ok lets clear some arguements up. In High level pvp (GVG/HA) a self defence elite is 100% useless, In Mid level pvp (TA) a self defence elite is 90% useless, In Low level pvp (RA, AB) a self defence elite 10% useless. Now earth magic is all about being slow and strong, which is why so many of thier skills slow you down or require you to remain roughly in the same area (wards), This makes this spell hardly practical in AB. Leaving the only pvp format that it could potentially be useful is RA, and if a spell only works in RA then theres something wrong. 76.26.189.65 12:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Lemme clear your clearance. People who use self defense elites in RA are deadweights whom happen to be useless. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 12:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- No, let me clear up something: self-defense elites are useless, because the skills themselves are useless. The tactic of people wanting to defend themselves instead of relying on their monks is not. That's just a different opinion. Most self-defense elites are nowhere near elite status, and that is why elite self defense is useless in PvP. Not because the tactic is wrong. 145.94.74.23 12:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Lemme clear your clearance. People who use self defense elites in RA are deadweights whom happen to be useless. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 12:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
No,self defence often is useless.When youre taking a self defense elite slot in whatever form of pvp youre doing something wrong.Even in ra the only place where you wont be able to take a healer with you it is WRONG.You will only delay youre death (and youre defeat so youre even wasting time) not stop it.As you can not heal yourself enough without sacrificing youre complete attack power (no a orison of healing/healing breeze warrior doesnt work because its a healr with more armor).Lilondra 14:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Anon, some self defense elites are not useless. Defy pain, Obs flesh, Melandru's resillience, Shield of Judgment, Glad def, shadow form.. etc are all "okay" elites. They do what they do rather well. But they don't work in pvp, simply because self defense elites don't have the battlefield presence that an offensive, partywide defensive, or utility elite can offer. You'll simply ignore the "Irremovable object" and wail on the other people, and guess what, the self defender's team just got down to a 3 man team. A warrior, assasin, dervish etc. all cannot kill efficiently without their elites. And yes, the tactic of people wanting to forgo offense or utility for a self defensive strategy that will eventually doom them, is, well, bad. It is wrong to be deadweight to your team. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 20:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- firstly, lets exclude self defence elites for pure healer since if they had no self defence they would often die rather quickly. nextly any build can still put out high-mediocre damage output even with them surrending thier elite towards self defence, obvious in higher forms of pvp you need the maximal damage potential available, but in RA you can freely use self defence elites and put out a good amount of dps and defeat most people that have weaker defence, but once you reach a team with a monk. Then you become a bit of a deadweight, also in RA people will often attack tanks instead of none tanks and/or healers....... Also after typing this I JUST realized how extremly unrelated these last few arguements have been to what we should be discussing, of if this skill should be buffed, and in what ways it should be buffed. instead of where this skill potentially sees use 76.26.189.65 11:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- It really depends on the type of character we're talking about. A Warrior can easily spare a slot for self defense provided that the skill he's taking is worthwhile. Unfortunately, there are no self defense skills that are good. If Defy Pain could keep you alive against a 4 man split in GvG while you kill archers, it would be a good skill. --TimeToGetIntense 11:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- We already have AoD, time. And anon, the argument of "people in RA are dumb and will wail on tanks" is true but pointless. you don't base a strategy on people being idiots. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 08:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- It really depends on the type of character we're talking about. A Warrior can easily spare a slot for self defense provided that the skill he's taking is worthwhile. Unfortunately, there are no self defense skills that are good. If Defy Pain could keep you alive against a 4 man split in GvG while you kill archers, it would be a good skill. --TimeToGetIntense 11:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- firstly, lets exclude self defence elites for pure healer since if they had no self defence they would often die rather quickly. nextly any build can still put out high-mediocre damage output even with them surrending thier elite towards self defence, obvious in higher forms of pvp you need the maximal damage potential available, but in RA you can freely use self defence elites and put out a good amount of dps and defeat most people that have weaker defence, but once you reach a team with a monk. Then you become a bit of a deadweight, also in RA people will often attack tanks instead of none tanks and/or healers....... Also after typing this I JUST realized how extremly unrelated these last few arguements have been to what we should be discussing, of if this skill should be buffed, and in what ways it should be buffed. instead of where this skill potentially sees use 76.26.189.65 11:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- It is pointless to break the chain of thought of any meta, because it sustains itself. So I won't try. This skill should be buffed, and when the movement penalty is gone, it will actually be a decent skill, that can defend an Elementalist against mesmer interrupts as well (meaning more offensive power instead of less). 145.94.74.23 08:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- First, I will shoot down all arguements about a self-defense elite being useless:Escape. 33%IMS (self defence in that you can kite) combined with 75% block chance (obviously self defense). However, this is the only self defense elite which works in PvP (and even only in R/D gimmicks). However, back on topic, this skill should be buffed imo, because 50% movement penalty with only +20 armor is practically suicide. Make the armor scale like +(20...40...45armor, then this skill might be worth the elite slot (still probably won't see use in PvP though)Crimmastermind 07:37, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
