ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Paragon/Aggressive Refrain

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+33% is a bad joke... you trying to copy natural temper? 76.26.189.65 14:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Natural Temper is an adrenaline skill, meaning it drops a strike by itself just by activating. Nevermind not working with Aegis. +33% means that 4 and 8 adrenaline skills will charge just as fast as they presently do, allowing it to be used to pump out more shouts more effectively while toning down their offensive push. Riotgear 16:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

33% means that to use 4 adren skills you need to hit 4 times because 3 hits would mean 3.99 adren, still short 0.01, at most for 5 adren skills and above it would save you 1 hit, lets just say youre using only this skill it to use a 8 adren attack. with 25ias it will take you 9.04, with your change it will be 10.5... make it at least 35% 76.26.189.65 09:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

It's an interesting idea, and could justify removing the cracked armour from it. --Epinephrine 00:07, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

33% more means "one third more" internally. If you really want to argue semantics, then pretend I said 34%. Riotgear 06:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

wow another nerf suggestion for paragon. How about someone suggested some fucking buffs on any of the useless skills that are 80% of paragon skillset. --89.142.106.87 18:14, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Nobody forces you to slot the crap skills, and the lack of options does not change the fact that options exist that are broken, namely the current Partygon templates that have far too much offensive push for the amount of defensive power they put out. Riotgear 06:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The fact that nobody forces me to slot crap skills is a really poor excuse for the amount of useless skills paragon has. The current spear DPS paragon are powerful because of Aggressive refrain, it's true. But I don't see how changes like this one serve anything except pushing profession out of play. --89.142.106.87 10:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

It's forcing you to either deal with lower DPS and utility or use your secondary for an IAS that isn't permanently maintainable, from your primary attribute, and fuel for RC. It's a straight-up nerf for a currently overpowered class, and lol@you if you think this will kill Paragons. --24.9.234.253 10:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I have problems finding 8 money skills for a paragon bar. With other professions I have problems deciding what to take. With paragon I have problems with not taking junk skills, because I can't find good ones. --195.250.201.214 14:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

This skill is fine, the spear is op because its not like the bow because the bow uses crip shot and the spear uses high +damage attacks at 14 spear mastery. Prokiller88 15:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Spear has more DPS than bow, but the bow however has much much much insanely better attack skills than spear. Distracting shot is better than all spear skills combined. Sleuth hunter shot has up to +60 dmg I think. Spear has very little utility. Bleeding attack. Bow has bleed with +dmg(screaming shot). Bow has poison. Spear has a conditional interrupt. Bow has unconditional intterupts with extremely strong side effects(distracting shot for instance). Spear has conditional cripple. Bow has cripple. etc etc.... Bow is much better than spear skill-wise. --195.250.201.214 14:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Bow and spear serve largely different purposes because RANGERS and PARAGONS serve largely different purposes. Rangers are mainly there for poison spread, snaring, and tactical interrupts, to a lesser extent spike-assists. Paragons on the other hand are there for a massive amount of offensive and defensive support. Note, by the way, that changing Aggressive Refrain to adrenaline gain would make packing an IAS on one more effective than it currently is, in addition to making Soldier's Fury a viable elite. Riotgear 16:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Soldier's Fury will never be a viable elite. NEVER. That is because of it's retarded condition(must be affected by shout or chant), which is absurd, considering 90% of paragon shouts and chants end before their full duration. ("ends on X"). They only skills useful for meeting Soldier's Fury condition are "Can't touch this" and "They're on fire", both are absurdly specific/useless/energy expensive. --89.142.68.225 14:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, you could always turn soldiers fury into this at +33% and no cracked armor. Prokiller88 02:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

or not change this and run focused anger as your elite for constant 25ias and 100adren instead of 33ias and 33adren 76.26.189.65 14:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Another alternative would be to lower the amount of adrenaline gained, but keeping the IAS and losing Carmor. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 20:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

This is the only non-elite paragon IAS. Warriors, rangers, dervishes have their own non-elite 33% IAS, so it would be nice if paragon kept his IAS. It is very good, being permanent, I agree, jst don't remove it. --Spura 14:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem with this skill is that it is so stapled to paragon bars that when izzy designed the paragon he might as well have said. "Paragons have 60 armor and can wield a shield they have a permanent 25% ias but only 7 skill slots." My suggestion, buff other paragon ias' (i can only think of one but..) and nerf this one. Demosthenes 17:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The Problem with Paragons

→ moved from ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Paragon/The Problem with Paragons

To be honest, I stopped reading just when you want it to keep lowering their armor with Aggressive Refrain, it already has Cracked Armor, lowering to a Caster class armor, this class starts with 2 pip and 30 energy and cost 25 already, thats 83% cost and no way to lowered, is a deathtrap for Paragons that doesnt want this on him/herself but cant detach it if a W or another Paragons keeps using shout/chants making Cracked Armor a problem. Looks like Lightning Reflexes was never a problem for you. And yes, I will not continue to read. Good luck though.--ShadowFog 18:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it already has Cracked Armour, but have you never heard of RC (just lets the paragon get healed more by it) or even Plague Sending et. c. Additionally, what with possible (better) insignias and the fact that the cracked armour often expires before it gets re-applied even without it being removed, to say it lowers you to caster armour is maybe a slight exaggeration. That's why it's still so widely run.

If you look at the suggestion, it does in fairness actually say the (small) armour decrease is only while attacking anyway, so a paragon in trouble could break off (and wouldn't have the penalty while kiting either). That said, I do agree that it's high cost is unwieldly and so, with a nerf like the one suggested you could perhaps put it down to, say, 15, but tbh at least as it is it promotes a small modicum of skill in that you have to keep it up. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:86.26.200.58 (talk).

Getting your condition strip should be no issue, can be good and bad, doesnt matter. If alone you must hit your skillbar for another skill, RA and TA are the worse options to use this skill already. The insignia is Centurion's Insignia which raises you armor by 10 if under effects like Echos, after being Cracked, to 70 which you will be hit like a Assassin or Dervish which anycase instead of having 90AL, you have 70AL already, a penalty. Lowering more the armor is just silly, "If the Cracked Armor gets stripped?" like I said, no issue, you should have taken something against physical damage in the first place.--ShadowFog 13:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Tbh, this skill is probably fine. It did overshadow Soldier's Fury a bit before, but now that that's been buffed it's probably OK. It's certainly not a high priority IMO, anyway. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:82.26.74.69 (talk).