ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Displacement

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I admit that your numbers can use tweaks but I prefer that idea than the original one. That same idea can be apply to the whole Communing tree. Spirits lasting 10-15 seconds is better than dying in 4 triggers which can happen from even 3 seconds.--ShadowFog 20:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Haha yea sorry im not the best at skill balancing but you pretty much got the idea that I'm moving to make spirits more active than and worthwhile but for a shorter duration:) For the numbers, I decided to compare this spell to Aegis in the sense that they have similar energy costs and recharge times. However, I lowered the energy by 5 and recharge by 5 simply because interruption and killing spirits are still a viable option.--Lancy1214 20:58, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

GvG-Perma 50% block chance?

You have a choice, attack that spirit or let them have that chance. It can be controlled by lowering the Spirit's level too so it can be easier to kill.--ShadowFog 21:04, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed I'm going to also include that in there to lower the level of the spirit making it easier to kill and rewarding dynamic spirit placement (Lowered the spirit level from 10 to 6). --Lancy1214 21:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

(RI) Can't say I agree, though. This changes just makes the spirit a copy of Aegis, only unable to be removed from anyone who just casts it on backlines and with a recharge that could be lowered into around 10 seconds with Ritual Lord (the PvP one, even). It also changes the spirits' mechanics to be worse, IMO - the current mechanic has many problems, but it at least gives players some control of when the spirits will die, be it by the caster (Spawing Power, skills that increase health and health regeration of spirits, etc) or by his oponents (such as atacking more often, in this case, so the spirit dies faster), besides killing the spirit. With a fixed 10 seconds duration, often it would be more time consuming to kill the spirit - keep in mind that an enchantment may be removed with simple, common skills, while killing a spirit is more time consuming even if only thanks to a matter of positioning. Erasculio 21:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

After fine-tuning all the spirits to become active and with shorter cast times, maybe Ritual Lord should be toned down a bit to compensate and make it seem something like this:

• Ritual Lord -

10 0 30 - (Spawning Power) For 20 seconds, Binding rituals you cast activate 1...24...30% faster and last 1...16...20% longer.

Again, what's exactly the problem with a fixed duration again? Players actually gain MORE control of the spirit due to the fact that they know when it is going to end. With the current displacement, it's just based on the amount of attacks the other team manages to pull off (I think it's like 6) and with a reduced area of effect, the spirit should be closer to the main battlefield anyways where it is susceptible to attacks and interrupts.--Lancy1214 21:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't consider knowing when the spirit ends to be more control - the players are not controlling anything, as they are not changing the duration, they're just being told how long it will be. That's a "fire and forget" mechanism similar to the one we see for enchantments and hexes; and while it's something lessened by giving those spells a shorter recharge and a shorter duration, by doing the same for spirits you're just taking a problem of other skill types and transplanting it to ritualist skills. The fact that players cannot control enchantments and hexes after they have been cast (in other words, cannot change how they act, their potency and etc) is the reason why all that may be done to make them more active is cuting the duration; but this does not apply to spirits, which may receive a far different approach.

IMO, instead of trying to "fix" spirits like people "fix" hexes (and thus ending here with a skill that is basically a copy of Aegis), I would suggest going the opposite direction - allow players to control how the spirit acts, so one that is just summoned and then forgotten is basically useless, but one that is controled (in other words, has some skills cast on it and etc) actually works. This is one way to turn spirits into active play, while keeping them different from enchantments and hexes. Erasculio 22:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I kind of understand but give me a suggestion and I can always add it underneath mine...All I'm trying to do here is make spirits more active so any suggestions are welcome:)--Lancy1214 23:12, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I want the forget and set it thing(Ritualist are the Engineer class, build turrets and Weapons). We are disscussing about spirits like Displacement which doenst last 3 seconds in the field. We are trying to find a way to make spirits like Displacement useful since its effect can be activated 3 times, with SPawning Power its extend its use to 4 times. I know your point but thats for another type discussion like Spirits in per se(Pain,BloodSong,etc.). What we are talking about are those like Displacement--ShadowFog 23:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Back in the Factions beta (it was more of a preview event than a beta, but anyway), weapon spells worked on spirits. Consider the strategic elements this added to the game - a spirit without any kind of buff was good, but imagine Displacement with Spirit Light Weapon cast on it together with Signet of Creation. Without changing Displacement itself, the skill went from dying within a couple seconds to lasting a while longer... This is the kind of change I'm talking about - making the management of spirits into something active (you have to actually cast stuff on them so they're useful), both offensive and defensive spirits. I'm not going to make a full suggestion because, frankly, I think it would be way too much work for Arena Net - they would have to change how way too many things work. Erasculio 23:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

But if that were the case, you could just keep healing and protecting your spirits to give your party a never ending buff that would be a little overpowered. Besides, it is WAY too far into development to change such a huge mechanic like that. --Lancy1214 23:36, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Lancy, I like the suggestion, but please write the purpose on the main page, to follow the standard format. -- NUKLEAR IIV 19:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I added that feature previously suggested for SoGM. Since Spanwing Power's health bonus clearly has diminished value with "Active" Spirits... due to reduced level (& health) with no longer suffering health loss, and (at least for PvE) could cleary benefit more from increased duration using synergy with Spawning Power. When used in conjuntion with "Active" Ritual Lord, a dedicated/specialized high-energy 'Spirit Spammer' could maintain defensive spirits almost indefenitely. ^_^ -- Falconeye --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:69.3.181.220 (talk).

I think the problem with this skill is more just that it dies so quickly. Changing it to 50% block chance (75% is a bit too high) and perhaps 20-30 health lost per hit instead of 60 would really help and IMO should be enough for it to see a bit of use. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:81.105.50.128 (talk).

Darth's idea

This would also be more useful in PvE than the current version, which only gets 3 blocks with 16 Communing and 13 Spawning Power. However for PvP, the suggested versions seems like it would be severely overpowered compared to Aegis. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

With Signet of Binding, Displacement can protect from 8 attacks before dying, Communing at 15 and at least 7 of spawning power. That idea seems too over powered even for PvE. 5 of energy and 10 of recharge is protecting everyone from 8 attacks every 10 seconds, is too much even for PvE.--ShadowFog 18:18, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

It does no sence to split this spirit in this PvP-Version. PvE-Skills are always stronger than the PvP-versions (for PvE noobs necessary). Even in PvP this skill is overpowered like the both said. Yullive 18:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Unless they nerf Shadow Form, Obsidian Flesh and Protective Spirit, ritualists are going to need overpowered skills to be competitive in PvE. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Darth, your idea is way OP. With Signet of Binding and/or Signet of Creation, that thing could block like 16 attacks or more.--ShadowFog 20:33, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Yullive's Issue

Only attack skills? Seem that the spirit will last longer and block the necessary +x damage that those skills do instead of blocking lame wanding attacks. I like it.--ShadowFog 20:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

It's annoying to lose the spirit by auto attack of caster.^^ -- Yullive 20:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Lancy's Issue

All of the communing spirits(those that loses mass amount of health for an action), in my opinion, are only passable with Ritual Lord and you must buy NightFall for the skill Signet of Binding to make them useful, one more reason to trick the customer into buying NightFall. Maybe a little too tough for some to chew...--ShadowFog 15:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)