ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Warrior/Galrath Slash and Silverwing Slash

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TimeToGetIntense's Discussion

I think Sword needs some more utility skills to see more play. I figure it's a good idea to rework some old skills that haven't served any real purpose before. --TimeToGetIntense 12:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea of utility a lot, but this is a baaaaaad way to go about it. "Oh hey you were about to get up from Shock on the spike? Silly monk..." -- Armond Warblade 19:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and I dont favor giving non-hammer wars yet another knockdown. Everytime that happens the currently few hammer wars get even fewer.--Ryudo 20:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe change to 5-6 adren, make it20+ dmg and another 20+ if target is bleeding. P A R A S I T I C 21:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is a boring skill, but it is fine as it is. It's a +40 attack skill that cost 8 adrenaline. Lightblade 03:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it's not fine... Simple +damage isn't enough for swords, except in PvE. This skill needs utility. -- Armond Warblade 03:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)::Lower damage by 10, make it do cracked armour, 'fixed'. Nukleaer VII File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 08:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Galrath and Silverwing are counterparts like Executioner and Mighty... the question is why they duplicate it for swords >_> 76.26.189.65 21:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

They need to be stronger to actually be counterparts of executioner and mighty if you compare the criticals of the weapons.

Make it 7a, to sync up with gash. --Symbol 08:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is it doesn't do anything outside of mindless damage. Cracked armor isn't the way to go about it since warriors/paragons/rangers/dervishes aren't supposed to have cracked armor application (Mesmer/ele/necro apply it). More knockdown isn't a good idea either since it creates more need for Aura of Stability/Ward of Stability and makes Hammers more and more unattractive options. Also, keep in mind Steelfang Slash. We all know the infamous Brawling Headbutt-Steelfang combo so popular in PVE and having this cause knockdown would result in sever-gash-galrath-steelfang, which is not unlike assassin chains really. I kind of like PARASITIC's idea of bleeding synergy though. --Life Infusion «T» 02:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Another thing about the knockdown idea is that it is possible to chain galrath-silverwing and it would be nonelite. Something as simple as cannot be blocked if in a stance would be nice for ranger killing.--Life Infusion «T» 02:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

"Galrath and Silverwing are counterparts like Executioner and Mighty... the question is why they duplicate it for swords >_>" They aren't and never were intended to be counterparts to those skills. They are counterparts to Penetrating Chop and Penetrating Blow. Sword's counterpart to Exec/Mighty is Final Thrust.

@Life Infusion: Well look at the bar you'd be running in that case... Frenzy, Rush, Bull's, Cripslash, Gash, Galrath, Silverwing, Res That's scary I guess, but remember that it would only work if the Deep Wound stuck. That bar has no truely unconditional KD. Although it would be a monster split Warrior... Hmm... I don't know, I've been thinking of suggesting to make the two skills do different things. I mean, they are technically different skills, right? --TimeToGetIntense 12:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't like the idea of giving non-hammer warriors easy access to knockdown. Think about adrenaline buffs like FGJ or, worse, battle rage, where DW becomes spammable and you can keep a target knock locked indefinitely, for free. Maybe just dropping the cost to 7a would be worth it. Then there's a tradeoff vs sun & moon...unblockability and double stacking with adren/damage buffs vs armor ignoring damage. If that isn't enough, you could make it do something like furious chop-give back 1...3 adrenaline if it's blocked. Swords are for pressure so it fits. --Symbol 21:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Standing Slash is basically the same thing for 6a but no one uses it. How about add "you lose all adrenaline" as well? This way you can't chain Galrath and Silverwing. --TimeToGetIntense 22:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Standing Slash is kinda in an awkward place because mismatched adrenal costs means that 6a doesn't do much. I'm not sure that's the best comparison. Lose all adrenaline helps a little, but again an adrenal buff means that you're almost back to full after wailing on them. It's pretty crazy...a non-elite, almost guaranteed KD every time you unload your attack skills...in swords! Anyway, if just lowering the cost isn't enough I support an adrenaline rebate: 7a Sword Attack. This attack strikes for +1...32...40 damage if it hits. If it is blocked you gain +1...3...3 strikes of adrenaline. That's plenty beefy, maybe even borderline OP. --Symbol 22:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that sounds pretty crappy. Sun and Moon Slash is an unblockable double hit. That's so much stronger. --TimeToGetIntense 06:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it's weaker unless you're using FGJ or conjures or something. The double hit counts for maybe ~35-40 extra damage on a 60 al target, much less on a hard one. The unblockability is sometimes useful as a finisher, but really, it's not going do much when sever and gash can both be blocked. I'd much rather it do more damage when it does hit and give me adrenaline back on a block so I can go and wail on another target. Hitting some guy through guardian, aegis, etc every once in a while isn't that strong. --Symbol 12:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Unblockable is better than gaining adrenaline on block. Also, if you don't want an unblockable finisher, Final Thrust is better. --TimeToGetIntense 13:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Except that getting three strikes of adrenaline back on a block is more than you'd get from connecting with Sun and Moon, so the only benefit is the damage. Chances you aren't going to be able to pressure that target anyway, so the damage will just get cleaned up by incidental heals. --Symbol 22:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The value of an unblockable attack is the ability to finish off a target who just started blocking at low health. Sun and Moon is a double hit, so it's good for that type of thing. The target will soon be healed so you need that last punch. Otherwise, I'd rather just use a good but blockable finisher like Final Thrust. --TimeToGetIntense 07:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Final thrust is bad for pressure though. No adren = no rush = no frenzy cancel, and the rest of your chain builds up slightly slower as well. Sun and Moon is unblockable, but low targets are likely sitting in their shield set (pushing them to 68-78 AL depending on insignias if they're casters), so they're going to take ~20-40% less damage already). There's a damage-reliability continuum here, the choices shouldn't just be very reliable but weaker (Sun and Moon) and unreliable but super strong (final thrust). --Symbol 14:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

You know, sword combo's take a long time to finish because of the primer sever.. hm.. how about... oh! got it! Weird, but neh: 7a/0/0 Sword attack. If this attack hits, target foe takes 10..30 (silly breakpoints..) damage and all of target foe's skills are disabled for 0...2 seconds. And turn the other one into: 7a/0/0 Sword attack. If this attack hits, target foe takes 10..30 damage and he suffers from daze for 0..2 seconds. heheh.. flame meh. Nukleaer VII File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 20:26, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

They should be conditional "if target foe suffers from a deep wound" though. I don't think the skill disable makes sense for these skills but why not have them both do a short daze? A 4 second Daze imo. A really short daze isn't as strong as a knockdown but it's not worthless. --TimeToGetIntense 02:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

How about having it cause cracked armor? Prokiller88 14:51, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I said that a couple of unsigned posts above. Still, a blackout might be really fun, so a short daze. Nukleaer VII File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 18:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Cracked Armor would be useful unless it was unconditional, but then you'd never use Sever + Gash, you'd use Galrath + Body Blow. I don't think that's a good idea, it would totally take Sever Artery out of the game. --TimeToGetIntense 23:40, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

You want sever in the game? it is a horrible primer that people are forced to take because of gash. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpgnuke7File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 15:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

There are really no sword wars in the meta its all hammer/shock axe. Make it cause cracked armor if it has deep wound. Prokiller88 19:40, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

If it does a conditional Cracked Armor it's useless, if it does unconditional Cracked Armor it's too strong. Cracked Armor isn't a good idea imo. --TimeToGetIntense 22:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

cracked armor doesn't belong to physicals if you haven't noticed. --Life Infusion «T» 03:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Not that it matters, but body blow will always be OP, and the thing that makes it weak is the clunky condition. I think these should be given cracked, and Body gets a damage nerf. High damage, non elite, adrenaline, and conditional DW? please, I like. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpgnuke7File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 14:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

You act as if Body blow is completely game-breaking. It isn't, considering you need about 9 strength for it to even do close to Executioner Strike/Mighty Blow with +28 and the deepwound lasts a lot shorter than normal deepwound applications. It isn't in a weapon attribute, you know. Cracked armor doesn't do much compared to Deep Wound so requiring it is having to jump through hoops. Bringing Cracked armor on a warrior means bringing shell shock most likely (Since a lot of people go W/E for shock anyway) since the other options, Weaken armor/Shrinking armor/Sundering Weapon aren't exactly in secondary professions you would normally go into. Ultimately, these are underpowered and Body Blow is just a cheap way to get Deep Wound if your team synergizes and brings Cracked armor. Without the Cracked Armor you are better off with Standing Slash, Executioner's Strike, or Mighty Blow. --Life Infusion «T» 01:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

You guys don't get it. You have to use Bleeding on Sword Warriors. Period. Alternatives cannot exist because they completely destroy the theme of Swordsmanship and how it is played. The way to make Swordsmanship more viable is to give it more utility, this keeps it in its place. --TimeToGetIntense 06:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Knockdown shouldn't be given to nonelite sword attacks (2 nonetheless), it makes hammer look bad. Deepwound is easy to get if you run an axe warrior on the same team--Life Infusion «T» 03:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I've revised my suggestion to a 1...3...4 second daze if the target has a deep wound because Izzy didn't like the KD idea. Warrior utility has to be some kind of shutdown/disruption/snare. --TimeToGetIntense 07:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

First off, at life, BB is Dangerous. As I said in my post, BB is only weak because no good primers exist. My arguement is taht, if wars/sins/Dervishes got Cracked armour somehow, that skill would not be OP, BB would be. So, give melee cracked, but hit BB.

Time, I understand why you want swordsmanship to be about bleeding, to protect the lore. Thing is, bleeding sucks. It is mostly ignored unless on a sword bar, which is hit with RC to get DW from gash. If you want to give sword more utility, first make bleeding useful. A lowered casting speed, lower heal percentage, lower attack speed, these would really make swords see actual play. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 16:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I doubt melee is going to get cracked armor. --Life Infusion «T» 23:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Or just make sword good in spite of using Sever Artery by making other skills good. Give it utility that Axe and Hammer can't get. --TimeToGetIntense 11:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

lemme put it to you this was time: Sword has less utility because swords waste a slot (sever) to get a DW (gash). Axe and hammer gets to skimp out on this primer (Dismember, crushing) and thus save slots. If you want swords buffed, they either need a better primer (or many primers) or the primers should actually do something. Bleed is worthless, so either buff it (maybe intensify it a bit, lower duration, up the degen to 6 or something) or give it minor utility (Health loss at critical, reduced healing, maybe a minor DW (30 ish) or anything at all). File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 16:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I could see something like "If target foe is already bleeding you also deal +X damage" on Sever Artery. That would be a nice buff imo. I'm not sure it's necessary. Sword has access to on-demand Cripple, but Hamstring is 10 energy. Also, it's got a nice interrupt in Savage Slash but that has a 15 second recharge. When it comes down to it, the only viable utility skill in the line is Crippling Slash. I think if the non-elite utility skills were viable, Sword would see more use just because those skills are better than what Axe and Hammer can do. --TimeToGetIntense 12:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll further repeat Myself: You need to buff bleeding if you want any sort of play for sword: They have a permanent dead spot called sever artery. Buffing other skills won't cut it. Either you have a dead spot, or you don't. EDIT: Oh, and your suggested buff to sever completely sucks for two reasons: 1) You will only have one bleeding in your non-sinsplit group, and that'd be the sever artery. Nobody chains svers, and nobody will unless you give something uber damage like 60ish damage. 2) bleeding never sticks anyway, even on a Sever-gash final spike, cause that is pure RC food. Furthermore, on-demand cripple on swords is really a pointless thing when you have a decent cripshot. A cripshot does so much more, I'd rather have a cripshot instead of a Cripslash. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 13:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Wisteria's Discussion

Galrath Slash + Body Blow FTW? --71.229.204.25 07:03, 19 March 2008 (UTC) Both the daze + this sugestion are nice imo.The daze would help it in both pvp as pve (random arenas and about any high lvl pve zone if ursan gets nerfed) and warriors just need a way to apply cracked armor ><.Lilondra 17:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

yeah... galrath + body blow would become the new standard for sword warriors. Cracked armor is far better than bleeding, and the damage bonus from body blow is much higher than gash. There's a reason warriors have to jump through hoops, or have to get help from a teammate, in order to utilize cracked armor. Pluto 03:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm all for hitting body blow's damage and giving galarath Cracked Armor. BB is borderline OP, anyway. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 15:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Stop suggesting Cracked armor/Daze for wars - it's not gonna happen. Izzy would probably be more willing to listen to suggestions if most of them weren't so unrealistic. P A R A S I T I C 21:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Fuck the lore and physical sense. The proposed buffs are excellent. They turn worthless skills to balanced skills. WTH is wrong with that? -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you really think they're gonna give wars a viable way to Daze? Izzy said it himself - their job isn't to counter casters, which is the reason they want Skullcrack to suck. I could see an interrupt being in there, but I really doubt Daze would. If it caused cracked armor, you'd probably kill Sever/Gash. P A R A S I T I C 00:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The whole "what classes are meant to do" bulldhit doesn't apply to pvp, parastic, no offense. Either its balanced, or its not. A short daze - nothing wrong with that. Oh, and wars already have their anti caster tool. Yeah, it's called shock. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You can ask Izzy about that....it was his own words. And the "what classes are meant to do" does apply to PvP - remember the turret rangers before the nerfs? They used to put out insane dps at a very far range. And it's on a class that has access to D/SavageShot making them even more dangerous. They should stay as a more disruptive/pressure class, not a ranged-high-dps machine. Putting Daze on a class with the highest dps in the game, even if it's a short duration, could easily lead to problems. As for Shock, KD is a counter to everything, not just casters. P A R A S I T I C 22:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

So much for that. Buffed Quivering Blade does just that. 76.89.91.45 04:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)