ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Warrior/resolved Tactics

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"Shields Up!"

Life Infusion's Discussion

Terrible changes. I really have no problem with Shields Up, as it requires investment in tactics :/. --Readem 03:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I am with Readem. Shields Up is fine as it is, with its 10e/30r and high tactics requirement. The chaining problem is more one of the Paragon class and their leadership/shouts energy gain. --Longasc 12:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I think he wants to turn it into a really crappy watch yourself.... 76.26.189.65 10:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Watch Yourself can be adrenaline denied and affected by miss/blind/block. Shields Up isn't. Warriors can use Shields Up!, but not Watch Yourself, on a regular basis due to adrenaline strain and speccing in Tactics isn't as useful for a warrior. --Life Infusion «T» 00:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

What's broken is Paragons actually use it better than Warriors due to Leadership. --Life Infusion «T» 00:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"Charge!" and "Retreat!" are 5 energy so I didn't mention them since they are usable on warriors The rest are single target shouts that only affect foe/ally/self (+1 energy from Leadership for those is still a 20% enegry discount but not as bad as the Shields Up situation). --Life Infusion «T» 02:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The only thing wrong with this skill is that it counters Rangers really hard without any way to stop it. I think something as simple as giving it a 1 second cast and turning it into a chant would balance it. Another option is to have the block chance only apply while not activating skills. This would make it into a pressure stopper that doesn't screw over interrupts. The Ranger would still have trouble spreading Poison or otherwise dealing damage and so would Paragons, which is not a broken aspect of this skill. --TimeToGetIntense 08:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It cannot be changed to a chant, it has quotation marks... Thus the only thing you can do is make the affect not so strong as 0 cast time 50% block and +24 armor since it is not removable. --Life Infusion «T» 00:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Why not like this: Make it 5 energy, a skill and lower armor bonus to 16. Then make it only give the armor to people that have a shield equipped, because it's "Shields Up!". Keep 50% block, because it is an good Anti-Parapressure skill. Now decrease duration 3...8...10 and decrease recharge to 20 seconds. Add to the functionality: This skill ends if that party member hits with an attack Skill.. This way Paragons wouldn't benefit from leadership anymore, for warriors it would be cheaper to use it, the armor bonus wouldnt be that bad and you could spam the skill a bit more... A. von Rin 03:22, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

its meant to be a counter to paragon and rangers, and thats not a bad thing. leave it as is. warriors shouldnt be shouting(with few exceptions), go slash something let the paragon do his work(his voice is nicer too) 76.26.189.65 08:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

76.26.189.65, it's too powerful against Rangers. It prevents them from doing their job (interrupting) and there are no practical countermeasures your team can take to make their Ranger useful aside from Magebane Shot. This is kinda bad because it's buildwars in which the game isn't decided by which team plays better, but by which team had the skills to counter the other team's skills. --TimeToGetIntense 12:21, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

A counter to insane Paragon DPS is okay. A counter to rangers' interrupts that is nonremovable and is partywide (takes no skill to simply mash it) is not. This has to remain a shout because it has quotation marks. I don't think there are any skills with quotation marks that aren't shouts.

It wouldn't make sense to give armor to warriors/paragons with shields, since it promotes armor stacking and paraway. I like A. von Rin's idea but the "having a shield" thing is basically a killer for 2 hand weapon users like Rangers, Assassins, Dervishes, Ritualists with item spells, and casters on their staff/focus. The "end on attack skill" seems like Defensive Anthem so that would probably work better. Removing 50% block would make it less imbalanced. Additionally, the armor bonus needs to be lowered though, unconditional ~33% less damage for the entire party from all non-armor ignoring damage is pretty insane. Having to bring Seeking Arrows/Magebane shot to get your interrupts through is not exactly player skill, it's Build Wars. When you think about block webs, this is the epitome of blocking that cannot be removed or interrupted. --Life Infusion «T» 16:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you could use Choking Gas (interrupts even when blocked), or Incendiary arrows + Crossfire/Precision shot/Called shot (needs 16 wilderness+ Serpent's quickness to upkeep). Once again, that's Build Wars. --Life Infusion «T» 17:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

in the end this game is focused on build wars and will always be so, if not then would be an arenas where every had exact same skills (i know dragon arena >_>). this skill is essentially aegis for ranged, and not having a ranger be capable of doing thier job for 10 seconds isnt a big deal, and its not like thier the ONLY ones that can interrupt... besides no one likes ranger spikes and this is one of the skills that keeps it out 76.26.189.65 17:15, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Ranger spike isn't as strong as people make it out to be since most of defensive skills and healing have been increased in power (Healer's Boon->Heal Other heals for 255, Word of Healing heals ~200, Zealous Benediction heals for Heal Other and allows greater spec in Spirit Bond/Shield of Absorption) and Orders have been hit. Blinding Surge didn't factor into the days of Ranger spike and neither did Weapon of Warding, Weapon of Shadow, Shield of Absorption or Spirit Bond. In addition aftercast now factors into the Ranger skills with 1/2 activation. You needed to chain 1/2 Activation attacks after Dual shot, such as Punishing shot/Savage shot and D-shot, for the old spikes to work.

Ranger spike was a problem when primarily Boon Prots were around since Reversal of Fortune doesn't work against packet damage and there was no serious high power heal outside of Infuse Health. Protextive Spirit doesn't work when it is packet damage. Also, "Shields Up!" armor used to be against only piercing damage and had +50 armor instead of +24. Back then it used to be stronger as a Ranger stopper. Regardless, most of the damage from Ranger spike comes from bonus damage, armor ignoring damage (Winnowing, Favorable Winds, Orders, etc.), or non-piercing damage (conjures). Order of the Vampire no longer stacks with Order of Pain. Conjures are no longer packet damage so Kindle-Conjure isn't as good as it once was. The highest damage skill is Sloth hunter's shot which may be different than those days. If you remember Power of My Rangers, they used to run Winnowing, Favorable Winds, dualshot/Quickshot, Read the wind, etc. This was before Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North which all brought higher power defense skills. People used to run superiors and vitae runes weren't out then.

One skill doesn't stop Ranger spike and people only run this on Paragons the majority of the time. Ranger spikes of the old days didn't have to deal with hexes, Defensive Anthem, Weapon of Warding, Weapon of Shadow, Blinding Surge, 600+HP characters, monks with half decent heals, people using shield swaps, clumsiness/ineptitude, decreased energy blurred vision, and general prot. The last time people ran Ranger spike was when Heal Party was viable to run on a monk without Healer's Boon. --Life Infusion «T» 17:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

lol, you don't HA much, do you? 68.35.98.155 04:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, ranger spike has changed, anon. Now, correct me here if I'm wrong, I haven't stepped into the cesspool for a while, but we don't see people like power of my rangers play anymore. -- NUKLEAR IIV 20:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Disciplined Stance

Ok...warriors don't like to use skills that end on adrenal skill, and they also don't care about defending themselves because the monk in pajamas is getting stabbed in the face while ignoring the warrior. If you want a warrior to use this, why not make the skill defend allies like the monk instead of the user of the skill? That way monks don't use it as self protection and warriors actually have a reason to use it (the cool support warriors, not the eviscerate all-offense warriors :P ) - Elder Angelus 15:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

That would be great, I endorse any change, as long as you change the damn skill, at least shield stance has the downside of 33% snare and is equally useful, Disci Stance is just ABUSE for casters with no downside, it drives me mad. If this and especially Shield bash and maybe WoH get nerfed, we may have a interesting game again where not 999 of 1000 monks run the very same skills all the time. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:62.158.83.14 (talk).

WoH needs to remain overpowered until crap like SF and sway get nerfed. Also, buff other healing prayers elites. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:96.233.1.153 (talk).

Healing Prayers aside, I totally agree that this is more useful on a monk than on a warrior, but while it remains purely defensive, it's unlikely to see use (all you're going to do is stop monks from using it either). I had made some wacky suggestion myself (can't remember the particulars but it was something like interrupting attacking foes when you use attack skills, wasn't brilliant but it had the right idea behind it) but for some reason someone deleted it... anyway, how about making it give you energy when you hit with (or just use) an attack skill too (and decreasing the block chance a bit to compensate)? Any warrior who takes this when it has an "ends on an adrenaline skill" clause will only be able to use energy skills with it, so giving them an energy gain when using attack skills will only offset this cost, allowing them to use them more often. 82.3.255.222 21:34, 21 November 2008 (UTC)