Category talk:Guilds by nationality or territory

This is how actually category should be called because there could be many nationalities on one territory and vice versa. And why do we want categorize by nationality or territory anyway? What is the definition of a territory? Why do not align this with districts in the game? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:HH LEADER (talk).

Primarily because no guild plays in any one territory, so categorizing them by territory is just messy. -- Wyn 16:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

That is another reason why I hope regardless of how much work you put in it you will remove categorization by nation completely. It is not a good idea. It serves and encourages separation, not collaboration. Please also see my comment on discussion about World category. Categorization by "Spoken languages" and "Preferable play types" is sufficient for Wiki. "Spoken languages" is better than just "Language" because many people are multilingual; and "Preferable play types" is better than just "Play Type" because it implies many types in the guild. Guilds will sort out anything else themselves... HH LEADER 18:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

The "usefulness" of division by nationality lies in the mere fact that many guilds define themselves by their nationality. So long as a sufficiently large number do so, it make sense (from a categorization standpoint) to create categories for various nationalities. *Defiant Elements* +talk 18:22, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind these categories are simply for general organization of information. They are not intended nor should they be taken to mean a political or moral view or to place limits on any guild. The play style category is intended to provide a place for the 3 basic play styles, and their many subcategories to allow someone who is looking for/at a preferred style a simple way to find them. The same can be said for the nationality, or language.-- Wyn 18:35, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

To *Defiant Elements*: Noting the fact that guilds "define themselves by their nationality" is very different from working on this type of categorization and creating means to search by this criteria for the purpose of the game. The dealemma is in what you choose to do about it. It is the fact that many people are drug addicts. Would you rather deal drugs or stop drug dealers to help them? Or be defiant about it? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:12.10.219.37 (talk).

The fact that we are providing an easy means for people who are specifically looking for a particular nationality based guild is in no way comparable to your drug addiction analogy. Again, all I can say is that this is for categorization of information, not a moral, ethical, or political statement. Trying to make it one is just ridiculous.-- Wyn 20:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

To Wynthyst: It was kind of you to answer on Defiant's behalf. Your explanation is well thought, but where are the requests to make a search base on one's nationality or a language? Can you point out the discussion threads where people actually asking that? How many individuals out of millions of players asked for that? Are you sure that your team do not force the community into your own mind sets enforcing guilds categorization the way you do? Once the structure you putting in place is done people will follow it because many are lazy to think. Maybe you are simply completing ArenaNet request because they need it for marketing or statistical purposes? Just say so! Please be honest to yourself and others! It is not always bad to make a moral choice even if it looks ridiculous! The choice it's what makes people different. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:192.102.253.14 (talk).

I have not created a single category for nationality, you would have to look at each category history to find out which user created each. As for the Guild by language category and subcategories, yes, I will take responsibility for creating those, based on the language the guild has indicated in the 'language' variable in the {{guild infobox}} on their page as a way to facilitate the collection of statistics for Emily Diehl for her discussions with the ArenaNet team regarding creating and supporting wiki's in other languages. You can see the discussion on her talk page, or possibly archived at this point, where she is indicating that having real numbers of the numbers of guilds using which language would be helpful. I am not trying to be dishonest, or hide anything and I'm certainly not making any moral judgments, I am merely trying to clean up some of the organizational issues within the category structure. -- Wyn 03:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I actually went back and looked at the histories of most of the Guild by nationality subcategories, and most were created by random wiki users. I would have to assume it was done when they created their guild page, who then placed their page within that category. It doesn't take much thought to come to the conclusion that it's not "our team" imposing a structure, other than to keep it organized in the most logical way and even now you will notice that there is discussion going on regarding the request of the OP for these changes. This wiki is not run by "our team" as you put it, but rather by all members of the community. Some of us are just more active, and willing to put more thought, time, and effort into making it better.-- Wyn 05:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)