Feedback talk:User/Johnnyrodrigues/Supportive Spirit

The heal amount needs a significant reduction if the functionality was changed like that. Racthoh 04:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, this skill will basically eat sin combos for breakfast (not that I'm complaining). ~Seef II <◈|۞> 05:43, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Reduced healing amount to 5...17...20. what do you think about it now? :) --Johnny Rodrigues 12:19, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Spirit Light Weapon would still be better and it's not an enchantment. - Reanimated X 12:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Spirit Light Weapon is an elite skill that has nothing to do with this functionality imo. --Johnny Rodrigues 12:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd say that the recharge should be 10 seconds instead of 8, since otherwise it's just too maintainable. 8 seconds is a bit broken, whereas 10 seconds requires more commitment to Healing Prayers and/or an enchantment mod. I personally see the heals as a little over-powered as they are now, but with a 10 second recharge it'd be more fair.--Alce What's the Build today? 13:05, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

With the new scaling it's a conditional Shielding Hands for the Healing Prayers line with a faster recharge and slightly slower cast time. In that respect it appears quite balanced. I like it. Racthoh 17:53, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a further incentive to drop prot altogether. No thanks--118.90.23.242 18:26, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you seen Healing Hands, Healing Seed or even Seed of Life? --Johnny Rodrigues 18:33, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Healing Hands is terrible. Healing Seed is good, but has a much longer recharge and cast time. Seed of Life is probably it only skill that really contributes to your argument. I am not saying your proposed SS balance is bad, but your comparison includes skills that, honestly speaking, do not contribute to your argument. At this point, your proposed SS is a weaker form of resilient weapon. It's definitely balanced if you look at it that way. Pika Fan 18:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I like the general idea. Doesn't feel balanced to me though. (maybe can't self target or can't be kept up indefinitely)Rypofalem 19:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

It's balanced. Resilient Weapon is better, lasts longer, unstrippable, and provides damage reduction and unreduceable healing. It also does not require someone pounding on you, which means it's more universal in any form of PvP in the sense you can reap the benefits with much lesser conditions fulfilled.Pika Fan 19:44, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Pika, those skills are similar skills to the new functionality I proposed to supportive spirit, I never said if they were good or bad. Even though this new functionality and Resilient Weapon both have the same condition to trigger they both have very different functions. The ritualist skill is a good form of protection and the supportive spirit idea is a new form of healing support. --Johnny Rodrigues 20:05, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Fact is, you are comparing skills that have different uses in different contexts as well as a big gap in quality. It's like trying to compare Spirit Light and Weapon of Warding. Regarding the second part I am not saying your proposed SS is bad. I am saying that it is simply not as powerful as resilient weapon, and since resilient weapon is balanced, your proposal is balanced as well. It's only natural for certain skills to be better than others. Pika Fan 20:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Nope, I'm comparing similar functionalities. I really don't care about quality. Here I'll show them for you.

• Supportive Spirit (new idea): Heals for 5...17...20 whenever target ally takes damage while suffering from a hex or a condition.
• Healing Hands: Heals for 5...29...35 whenever target takes damage.
• Healing Seed: Target and adjacent allies gain 3...25...30 Health whenever this ally takes damage.
• Seed of Life: Heals party members for 2 for each rank in Divine Favor whenever target takes damage.

See the pattern here? Also if you look at each skill's page you'll see they are related. The only difference between these skills (besides cost/cast/recharge) is that SS requires a hex/condition and heals for much less than any of these skills. Hence the differences in cost/cast/recharge.

As for Resilient Weapon:

• Resilient Weapon -

10 1 4 - Weapon Spell. (5...13...15 seconds.) +1...5...6 Health regeneration and +24 armor. No effect unless target ally is hexed or has a condition.

There's no denying that it's a good skill. But as I mentioned it's a good protective skill. And what I'm trying to create here is a healing support skill. Which has nothing to do with resilient weapon.We could argue that one is better than the other but it's all relative to one's point of view and there will always be someone supporting one skill and hating the other. --Johnny Rodrigues 20:32, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

You use your proposed SS as well as those three skills in different contexts to the skills you mentioned. Supportive Spirit can be slapped on any target as a general "preprot" due to it's generally low recharge and the nature of the skill's mechanic(s). Healing Seed and Seed of Life are skills you throw up on a target you know will ALWAYS, or at least CONSTANTLY, take damage for the full duration, or most of the duration of the spell, because they have long recharges. Healing Hands is basically Healing Seed, you would definitely slap it on a tanker-type party member or NPC, such as the ghostly hero in HA, rather than a party member who isn't likely to get everything hitting on him/her/it. I know you are comparing similar effects. My point was that those skills you mentioned were to be used in different contexts. RoF reduces damage. Shield of Absorption reduces damage. They are two skills you use in different contexts. My point was that skills also has to be compared according to situation in which they are used. Just simply superficially referring to a small part of the description while ignoring the entire context in which skills are used is the basis of the unbalance in Guild Wars.

Now, let's get the cards on the table before you repeat arguments that I have only the same answer to.

1. I am not saying SS is bad. Resilient is just better. WoH is better than Patient Spirit, but it does not mean Patient is bad. Please note the difference between "a bad skill and a good skill" and "a skill that is better than another".
2. I used resilient weapon to compare to supportive spirit because it also functions as a preprot when conditions are present. My point was that resilient reaps its benefits even when you are not receiving packets of damage, and it is unremovable and lasts longer. Supportive Spirit has to have people pounding on you to see its effects.

I hope you see why I am comparing Resilient to your proposed SS.

P.S I think it's good to give heal monks more options to "prot" damage via healing. This will encourage healthy playstyles such as pre"protting" rather than just blindly red barring people to health, therefore I support this skill.Pika Fan 20:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The context of the skill's usage is meant to be thought by the players who will be playing the game. That is to say that while I think one way to use this skill, you may know or think about a different way to use this skill. Is it right or wrong the way I play or the way you play? No. The best way to use a skill is the way where you can reap the most benefits out of the skill. So it's possible to have a lot of situations where this skill becomes a very useful support skill. Just because you thought one way of using it and it didn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's inferior/superior to <insert skill name here>. Also, SS's (anything but general) recharge prevents it from being slapped on "just any" target. There is nothing "preprotting" about it and people who think like that will fail to use the skill properly. It's like using Word of Healing on a target that has more than 50% health, sure it will heal the target but you aren't taking the full advantage of its functionality. This is not a problem with the skill but a problem with the person using it. Healing Seed and Seed of Life are supposed to be used in the situations you described (even though there are many more situations). But, unlike SS, they don't require a hex/condition and since the ability to heal while taking damage under any circumstance would obviously be overpowered, the cost/cast/recharge is reduced/increased accordingly.

RoF, SoA and many others are protection prayers because they reduce, prevent or convert damage (which this skill does not). The role of the prot monk is to (but not limited to) have a good look at the battle and try to "prevent" or "protect" an ally from an enemy spike.

• Bad or good, better or worse are all relative terms that differs from opinion to opinion.
• "I used resilient weapon to compare to supportive spirit because it also functions as a preprot when conditions are present." That is exactly the opposite way to use this skill efficiently. If one wanted to preprot a target with conditions then Resilient Weapon would be one of the best skills to use. "Supportive Spirit has to have people pounding on you to see its effects." That's exactly the purpose of this skill. When an ally is suffering from a condition and the monk sees a spike coming up on that ally, he/she can cast SS on that ally to help heal target ally without expending half his/her's energy and skill bar.
• Also, if (for some mysterious reason) this skill is considered "protting" then Healing Hands and Healing Seed should have been moved to Protection Prayers a long time ago.

Even though I don't fully agree with your arguments. I appreciate your support for this skill. --Johnny Rodrigues 22:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Protection = Reduce the damage, Healing = Let the damage happen then heal it

For extreme reasons lets say you have shielding hands on player 1, and this on player 2, and both players have exactly 20 hp left, and get hit by an attack that does 20 damage,,, the protected player would live while the one that attempted to be healed would die, thats about the only difference that should happen... some people think healing = reactive, protting = proactive, as in one you should only use after things happen, and the other you use before things happen (thus pre prots), but having this turned into a "pre heal" isnt a bad idea, and this change is very awesome Talamare 08:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what I was trying to explain. Just because you pre-cast it doesn't mean it's a protting skill. If you pre-cast patient spirit on a target that is going to be attacked doesn't mean patient spirit is a protting skill. :) --Johnny Rodrigues 11:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)