Feedback talk:User/Lord Marshal/Let people buy HOM items in Gem Shop

I see no use for it, the rewards are only skins. I mean, if they should sell something like skins there, than better something exclusive and new instead of something already existing through GW1. --217.228.218.63 19:20, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

It is my understanding that there is alot more then skins to be gained there. You can also acquire pets, titles and other assorted goodies. Besides if its just skins why not add it. Wouldn't be instead of new stuff but in addition to, more the better eh? No one would be forced to purchase any of this stuff.

I think the first respondent meant that "the (Hall of Monuments) rewards are only skins". Yes, there is a lot more in the shop than just skins.

I'm split on this suggestion. On the one hand, I understand the position of the collectors/completionists who want everything (and are willing to pay for it in one form or another; time or money). And, because it is just a skin, what's the big deal, right? If the skins are cosmetic only, then there shouldn't be anything wrong with putting them in the store, right?

Except...

First, it will feel to some that it has "belittle(d) the accomplishments of the people who actually worked hard to earn these titles". For those to whom this is a concern, it just won't sit right that what they spent hundreds of hours (in some cases) working towards in the original Guild Wars can now simply be bought at the in-game store in GW2.

Now, if those unique skins had been earned and usable in the original Guild Wars and those players had been wearing them for a couple years already, then it probably wouldn't be an issue. But the HoM rewards are usable only in GW2; they are designed for that game in recognition of those players who played enough to earn them in the original Guild Wars. To take that away from them by turning these items into something that can just be bought at the store is a real slap in the face to that group.

Secondly, these items serve a purpose beyond mere collectability, cosmetics, or vanity. It identifies those who wear them as someone who - it is reasonable to assume - actually know what they're doing in the game. Granted, the games are not identical. Even so, someone coming from an original Guild Wars background is likely going to have much less of a learning curve as compared to someone completely new to the franchise; especially if they've earned quite a few ranks in their HoM. As such, these veterans bring a sense of community, continuity, and expertise to the game. They will, in many cases, be the "go to" person when someone has a question about the game, needs a little help, or is in search of a guide. The unique HoM skins will help identify these mentors to the new players. In this capacity, they serve a useful function within the game. I wouldn't want to see that eliminated by allowing just anyone to buy the skins.

Personally, I'm not that married to the items myself. Once I realized the skins are purely cosmetic, offering no in-game stat bonuses, I gave up chasing the titles in HoM at level 35; I probably won't even wear any of the items I've earned. The exception would be if doing so would permit me to start using an item right away that I would otherwise have to find or purchase from an NPC. The Warhorn, for example; it doesn't appear to be a starting item for a necro. With my HoM reward, this may permit me to start using a Warhorn at level 1.

Though I agree with ArenaNet's philosophy of no "pay-to-win" or basing a player's strength or skill on their items, neither am I a big fan of purely cosmetic items, either; I prefer function over form. To my mind, it's chasing an item that has no real value; even worse if you pay real money for it. But I do see how they can be used to identify competent players who can assist those who may be struggling. So in that sense, they have value. Offering them for sale in the store would negate that value. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 20:29, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Another lamer's QQ

Seriously, these suggestions suck balls. Yoshida Keiji talk 21:58, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Rewarding loyalty

The HoM items are meant to reward the loyalty of GW1 players. That cannot happen if they are available to anyone willing to plunk down the cash (or coin equivalent).

I sympathize with your lack of enjoyment of GW1 (for whatever reason), but that shouldn't mean that you get the same opportunities as those who do like the original game.

I'd be more willing to agree with you if the game didn't include so many variations of corresponding items that you can obtain for coin, karma, dungeon rewards, or cash. This includes tons of minis & dyes; all sorts of weapon & armor sets; town clothes (none from the HoM); and all sort of pets. Moreover, in GW2, every piece of armor & weapon (for a specific character level) has the same stats, aside from dyes and removable upgrades.

In short, those who play GW2 for 100s of hours are rewarded for their loyalty with a few extra skins, a tiny fraction of the total number that will be available. Seems like a slap in their face to take that minor exclusivity away from them. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:22, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I really have to agree with this post. There is so much available to players in GW2, it is important to have some sort of difference between those who have been long time GW1 players and those who haven't. Loyalty rewards are a nice tip of the hat to those who have been with the GW franchise for an extended period of time. I hope they never make the HoM rewards available in any other way than the current system. After all, it is not as though it is a limited time thing, anyone discovering GW2 after it is released can always go and play GW1 for those items if they wish.

All in all, it is a good system as it stands. Singing Wolf 01:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I should have said that I'm not sure the existing system is good. My comments are to point out that it is working as intended: to distinguish those who played GW1 from those who didn't. ANet's recent choice to allow everyone in GW1 to obtain any festival hat they like suggests that ANet doesn't necessarily support exclusivity, so... who knows what they will do. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

LOL Fair enough. I should have said that I think it is a pretty good system. And from a selfish point of view, I'm glad to be able to get the early festival hats that I missed out on. The fact that it is only one per festival per year is a good compromise, in my opinion. Singing Wolf 01:22, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

The hats part is mainly because everyone has been begging for the old hats they have missed during the first year. The HoM rewards will remain exclusive for the dedicated players and should remain to only those and not farmers. Da Mystic Reaper 10:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I find that inconsistent with John Stumme's stated philosophy, which says (among other things) that exclusive rewards are bad. I don't see any true distinction between the exclusivity of hats (= "I was there") to the exclusivity of HoM-items (= "I played GW1...a lot"). If ANet makes hats available to anyone (albeit slowly), what's to stop them later from making the HoM rewards available, per Marshal's suggestion?

Sure, lots of people begged for a chance to get the old hats, but ANet has ignored beggars before (permasins are still possible, spirit spammers still allow keymash farming, and WoC is still bugged so that newbies can get slammed by Afflicted).

Again, I'm not sure if the HoM-reward system is good/not or if exclusive festival hats are good/not. My point is that the HoM system is designed to be exclusive, so I think it's unlikely that ANet will change the requirements anytime soon. However, it wouldn't surprise me if 2-5 years hence (e.g. when fewer than X,000 people are still playing GW1), they will offer the HoM rewards via the gem shop. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:22, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

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Response by the author

I didn't intend to offend any hardcore GW1 vets, if I did so I am sorry.

For the most part your feedback was respectful and reasonable, and I appreciate it.

I understand that many would see this as a cheapening of the HOM, I really do. But what you also have to understand, is this is the first MMORPG that I am aware of that has allowed people to literally earn "gear" for the game by playing another mmorpg. One of the goals of GW2 is to attract people that didn't enjoy GW1, and to those in the know not being able to get any of this stuff; whether its vanity skins or not is quite vexing.

What I assume many of you missed was I suggested that in order to compromise as best as possible, these HOM items that would be sold in the gem shop would be OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive. So those who earned them would not feel cheated + might even feel better knowing the enormous amount of gems they saved themselves by earning it the real way. Furthermore the OCD completionists, of which there really are quite a few in the MMO genre can acquire these trinkets to get their much needed feeling of having "gotten everything".

And finally Arenanet would make BANK on the selling of these items, and nobody should complain about the prices or feel bad for those who bought them because its the price they pay for collecting things that really aren't vital they could earn if they just played GW1.

Also as one final concession perhaps a few titles that CANNOT be bought but only earned in GW1 so people who wish others to know they really earned their HOM stuff the old fashioned way could flash the title. One for unlocking like two things, one for the middle, and one for everything. And these would be GW1 only, something like Loyalist or Founder or Creator.

@LM: I apologize if you are already aware of the following, but I'm not at all sure I understand your vexation.

• Every game includes gear that cannot be obtained by everyone. Every game includes rewards to people who buy special editions. The only new thing here is that ANet is also making rewards available to fans of other games.
• In GW2, gear is just the appearance; the stats are the same as the crafted or looted stuff in-game.
• I'm as big a lawnmower as anyone and I cannot imagine obtaining everything in the game: it's vast, item variation is astoundingly diverse, and...did I mention the game is big?
• 99% of people never notice titles, so skins are the way to show off where you've been or what you have done.

I also challenge your assertion that ANet would make tons of money on this: if I am going to plunk down change on how my toons look, I'm not going to spend it on something that I know is free for a million players.

Anyhow, the point is probably moot: if we assume that ANet wants to provide a meaningful reward to GW1 players, I am not sure how it would ever be okay to tell those players that their exclusive rewards are no longer exclusive.

Again, I sympathize with the fact that you just don't like GW1 and still want to find a way to get the extra skins. But, I'm willing to bet that within a week of Aug 28, you'll be too busy upgrading your armor and weapons to cooler stuff that you won't care (at least, not for a couple of years, until you start looking around at new challenges). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:46, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe I'm just not understanding what HOM actually provides. I was under the distinct impression that in addition to special gear "skins", you can also get unique mini pets and titles.

I'd hardly call special pets and titles something that people would replace eventually anyway.

(Lord Marshal 20:14, 3 July 2012 (UTC))

You're correct that there are minis and pets, but those are exactly analogous to the weapons and armors: the minis & pets are also unique skins exclusively for people who played GW1 and advanced their HoM rank. And as there are other weapon & armor skins, there are other minis and pets in the game (I wouldn't be surprised if some varieties of either are both are also as exclusive rewards for other reasons, e.g. for Halloween Art Contest winners or something along those lines).

So, again, I sympathize with your desire to obtain these, but ... the very definition of exclusive means that these aren't designed to be available to everyone.

I think you might have better luck arguing that ANet shouldn't offer exclusive items in the first place. (Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it, in measured doses, but recently the GW1 dev team made a number of formerly exclusive items available to everyone — so, you might get some traction there.)

And finally, if ANet ever considers making these items available to anyone for Gems, they are going to have to make it up to all the GW1 veterans who worked hard to earn them, thinking that they were only available through the HoM system. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:07, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

"loyalty of GW1 players" This is why I would disagree with this suggestion. As to what the HoM provides - yes, unique pets (both ranger companion and miniature pets) are available, but they're supposed to be cosmetic - hopefully so will the Rytlock mini and Mistfire Wolf attached to the Deluxe and Collector's Editions of GW2. There's supposed to be no advantage to having these other than being able to say "hey, I played GW1 and put effort into it" - it's looks and looks alone. Or so we've been told. If/when GW1 dies for good (aka servers shut down and GW1 isn't made off-line compatible like people hope), then I could see this happening - and I would, in fact, request it myself as there would thus be no means to get the items, since how it is there is a means even after GW2 is released by going back into GW1. But until then, forever no. Konig/talk 04:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree with that. The whole point of the HOM is to reward active GW1 players. I will feel cheated if somebody can have the same rewards with money. There are many other items in the game. Please don't step on these ones. Agaetis Ros 09:13, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

A new suggestion

After consideration, I reluctantly agree that no matter how expensive these things would be in the HOM shop it would be an insult to the GW1 players who worked so hard to achieve them.

And I would never ask Anet to do such a thing nor would I condone the downplaying of such hard work, as a fellow competitionist

I would completely understand how upset I would be. And after thinking about it, even if GW1 closed down or there came a point where you could no longer earn HOM stuff in GW1 it would still insult those players to then bring it to the shop; a secret message that perhaps they should have waited.

I have only one question/suggestion left along the lines of keeping GW1 players happy and still being able to offer these items in the HOM shop.

So I ask all those who actually earned stuff there if Anet did the following would you still feel cheated?

Lets say they came up with a mathematical formula that gave a gem value to the stuff you earned based both on point cost and how far down and how difficult it was to earn.

Then they simply give ALL people who earned these HOM rewards that value in FREE gems to be spent as they see fit in the Gem store.

I doubt Anet would do this as the income gained from selling HOM items probably wouldn't even be worth the cost, but assuming they did. And that the gem value was respectable.

Would you be appeased or still feel cheated?

Thanks

Lord Marshal 19:41, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I, personally, would be appeased. As mentioned in my fisrt response, I prefer function over form. The HoM rewards are all comsetic and thus of little interest to me. If I could be reimbursed in gems which I could then spend on items which give me functional advantages (such as the temporary experience boost items and the like), I'd be fine with that. However, I know there are many people who worked just as hard or harder than I on their titles and HoM rewards who would not be fine with this. It would also run counter to many of the other reasons given by the respondents above as well as my previous argument that - if nothing else - these items/titles help easily identify veterans of GW1 who will serve as the bedrock of the GW2 community. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 22:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I still think your best argument is to ask whether ANet means to continue the GW1 policy of offering exclusive in-game items.

There are two primary player benefits to the HoM rewards:

• They are a visible method of displaying one's GW1 accomplishments while playing GW2.
• They reduce the need for players to spend coin, karma, or gems on gear when starting a new toon.

There are two benefits for ANet:

• This is an incredibly cheap method of rewarding tens or hundreds of thousands of players.
• There is almost no downside.

The original player benefits aren't addressed by a one-time gem deposit and it would hardly be cheap for ANet (especially considering the vast number of players involved).

Of course, 3 months into GW2, I'm sure a lot of HoM/30 and HoM/50 players will wonder why they fussed with gaining those titles and, who knows, maybe 90% or more might be willing to give up the specific rewards for a chance to choose something else (even if anyone else can get it, too).

But for those remaining 10%, changing the rules would feel like a betrayal. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Not

Until GW1's server go down once and for all. Until then, players who want them must get and play GW1. After GW1 disappears, then we'll see.MithTalk 22:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)