Feedback talk:User/Lumenil/Random Arenas improvement

THIS IS A SHIT IDEA, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED--67.159.5.99 16:55, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

While I do agree that it is annoying when your team dosn't have a healer getting rid of those attributes would lead to the basic extintion of a class (Monk) and would just lead to more people using other healer builds (Motivation or Healing Derv). Also the point of RA is that is random so all that really need to be done is stopping sych entering. If you remove healing/restoration/protection from the game then why not just remove all the attributes and make everyone one run no attribute builds ECHO FRENZY FTW Yay Killing Charr talk 17:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

^Despite the last part of that being largely fallacious, I do agree that this is a terrible idea. This doesn't stop teams from syncing, and since there will be no dedicated healers—as you probably mean to disable most if not all forms of non-self healing—then people will just start syncing spike gimmicks, etc. --Riddle 17:14, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Healing dervs are mainly based on monk skills so no problem with them, Motivation is not so powerful, so it wouldn't be a problem either. Random arenas matches are meant to be quick and fun, healers just make them boring and long: when there are 2 healers vs 2 other healers RA becomes terribly annoying. Monks are the most important class of the game, so even if they became extint in RA, it would not be an issue for anyone.--Lumenil 17:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, healing dervs are mainly based on dervish enchantments, Signet of Pious Light, and Imbue Health. There's even a D/Me variant that (obviously) uses no monk skills, instead choosing to have Echo as the elite. Also, Random Arenas is also meant to be a place for people to practice for more serious PvP. If people can't practice playing as or against monks in RA, that goal is seriously diminished. -Datrulegend 17:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Bad idea. Just because you don't get a monk a lot in Random Arenas, and then lose to a team that does, does not mean thinking about removing the role of a healer. Also, Guild Wars had an update a few months ago in order to prevent synchronization in Random Arenas, and it seems to work. 1/5 times, me and my friend were on the same team. In addition, a good monk is just a good monk, nothing else about that. Than 04:45, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

No! I as much as the next guy don't like monks in RA, but banning them is not the answer. Wait for GW2, no healers.Gut 19:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Questions for Lumenil

1: What do you think is the biggest issue/problem facing RA?
2: What constitutes "fun" in RA to you? Why?
3: What is wrong with those particular attributes?
~Shard 06:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

1: Syncers, by far. They are not gone at all. The september update just reduced them a little.

2: RA is ment to have quick matches, with no waiting, no preparation nor organization whatsoever, fast kills, fast deaths. This is RA "fun" to me.

3: Healers make RA slow and boring. They just negate what their opponents do, and, not having any offensive power, they reduce their team damage output. In RA, when there are 2 or more healers VS 2 or more other healers, it ends up in endless waitings with not even one death for any of the two teams. --Lumenil 22:02, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

The syncer fix is an easy one. IIRC Anet actually fixed it, then they broke it in the next update and it no longer works. Really, the only reason people sync in the first place is to title farm. So, while I don't particularly disagree that syncers are the main problem, I'd say the title points are, just because they're the cause.

Healers make RA slow because they stop damage? So...you want to take counters to damage out of RA so it becomes a "who has more damage" contest? I will agree with you that monks are overpowered in 4v4, but that's only because they've been buffed up to deal with the high damage everything else does.

I guess I don't have any more points to make. Back to SC2 for me! ~Shard 04:40, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Have you considered:

Hexes?

• Punishment hexes like Insidious, Empathy, VoR, Backfire, and even SV basically remove a character from the game OR create damage output just about equal to what the character they're on causes.
  • You're essentially playing 3v4 or 4v5 if you've got a punishment hex like that on you.
• Straight shutdown hexes like Faint effectively reduce a character to less than half of their normal effectiveness.
• This is why so many people run them as is, what with most teams not having means to remove them and all.

Conditions?

• Blind effectively renders physicals useless.
  • Without the means to remove it, your team is essentially playing a man down for every blind physical they have.
• Weakness, though less effective, also significantly reduces physical damage.
  • Like Faint, a weakened character is simply... weaker than they would otherwise be.
• Daze is like a blind on a caster:
  • Without the means to remove it, that caster essentially stops existing for the duration of the daze.
• Cripple can be even more effective than Blind in hindering melee.
  • If you can't hit your target, you can't do anything at all.

Knockdown?

• A knocked down player is generally nothing more than one of the dummies on Isle of the Nameless.
• Certain characters, like assassins, hammer wars, and stoning eles, can keep opposing players knocked down for long periods of time; without the means to prevent that, their targets, again, stop existing.

Resurrection skills?

• Like heals, they do nothing but slow down games.

In the absence of heals and prots, the team with the most shutdown wins 99 times out of 100; should we ban all of these things, as well? Then self-defense skills? Interrupts?
What do you want to be left? is for Raine, etc. 23:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Hexes: there are many hex removal skill outside the attributes I'l like to ban. Any secondary monk could pick holy veil. Or, a support smiter with smite hex and veil could be as effective in removing hexes as any healer or prot monk.

Conditions: Same thing, there are so many condition removals out there, anyone would be free to pick one.

Knockdown is good. It is the king of fast kills/fast deaths.

Resurrection skills are very carefully balanced. Either you use a rez signet, and you have ony one shot, or you pick some hard rez, and then you get a malus that could make it impossibile to use it, or even worthless.

Shutdowns are good. They dont make the game slow: people die even when shut down. --Lumenil 00:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that everyone should bring their own hex and condition removal? Wouldn't that be completely defeating your purpose? If everyone's packing their own heals and removals, what's the difference between them doing it and monks doing it except one makes the game less stupid?

Knockdown isn't the king of fast kills/deaths; it directly slows down the rate at which the knocked down player can play the game. People would die faster if no one could be knocked down because it would allow more people to do more damage. Isn't that better?

Even if you only have one shot, you're still creating another party member that the other team has to kill, slowing down games. With hard res, you're doing the same thing but moreso, since you can do it over and over. Hard resses in RA are basically minion animation skills that create minions that the other team HAS TO KILL in order to win. If people couldn't res, games would go faster, no?

Shutdowns aren't good because people can't make kills while shut down; it just slows down games (unless you're shutting down a defensive character, which you propose to eliminate). If Team 1 has 4 blinding flash eles with no damage and team 2 has 4 warriors with no condition removal, 50% of the people on the map are shut down and 0% of them are dying.

Right? is for Raine, etc. 21:07, 29 April 2010 (UTC)